Blank Check with Griffin & David - Elle with Emily Yoshida

Episode Date: March 4, 2018

In the final installment of our ‘Paul Verhoeven in Hollywood’ mini series, Emily Yoshida (Night Call Podcast) returns for a special bonus episode on 2016’s pitch black French dramedy, Elle. But what other actresses were considered for the lead role even though Isabelle Huppert is clearly the perfect casting choice? Is this a successful satire of French erotic thrillers according to Griffin’s Mom? Can the video game being designed in the movie be at all entertaining? Together they discuss a connection to 90’s sitcom Friends, the goofy male characters, French sighing and present their Verhoeven filmography rankings. This episode is sponsored by Blue Apron, Stamps.com and HowStuffWorks’ Movie Crush.

I came here to spit on my father's face. I can't say it was a podcast. What's the line. I can't say it was a podcast. What's the line? I can't say it was a metaphor. The quotes are bad for this. I just wanted to find a quote in French so I could say it. Say it in French. And then say podcast and no one would even know what I was saying.

Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast.

Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast.

Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast.

Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast.

Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast.

Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast.

Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast.

Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. I have a French mother, I have a French mother who's a French mother who's a French mother who's a French mother who's a French mother who's a French mother who's a French mother who's a mother who's a mother who's a mother who's a mother who's a mother who I'm sorry. What do they say? Is that the word? Do they say podcast? Look it up. My name is Griffin Newman. I have a French mother who stopped listening at this point. My name is David Sims. I lived in France. Okay, stop it.

We're hashtag the two friends, as you can tell by how well we're getting along right now. Yeah, wow. It's a podcast called Blank Check. On which we talk about... Blank Check. Let's blank i guess yeah because i think of blanc is meaning white but uh i guess this is this is the first french language film we have covered on the podcast oh yeah right no what else would there be right yeah for sure

oh it's hack of the clones um that was translated into French and then back into English I'll tell you this much it wasn't in English oh boy

Dexter Jetster that was a dictionary I've ever read you guys didn't do a um Valerian spin-off did you

not that that counts I'd love to do Valerian I'dff did you not that that counts I'd love it it's a French movie but it's an English language but if we did Luc Besson which we've sort of

vaguely discussed over the years we discussed it like he has French movies obviously he has French films he has full stop French films Nikita

yeah Saboué Angela which is about his quest to get a five dollar footlong Subway Lucy

Lucy she is a hard drive she is a computer she turns into a USB Morgan Freeman let's just do this all day this is our episode

where we just do Luc Besson pitches Lucy too she becomes a cloud computer I don't know Let's just do this all day. This is our episode where we just do Luc Besson pitches. Lucy 2, she becomes a cloud computer. I don't know. He was threatening to make a Lucy 2? Buku the drugs in the stomach. Sure. I mean, Lucy was such a hit.

I mean, why wouldn't he threaten? Huge hit, but I just kept on going like, dude, have you seen the end of your own movie? She becomes the internet spoiler at the end of Lucy she becomes the internet turns into a USB drive

she also she resets existence doesn't she doesn't she reboot that movie rules who gives a shit I love that movie

I couldn't explain it but I that movie pro it yes yeah exactly pro it who are you

the executives at New Line made a lot of money it was a very profitable film Pro-It. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Pro-It. Who are you? The executives at New Line? Made a lot of money. It was a very profitable film. Are you going to be in it too yet? Is that official? Yes. It's going to be me and 65-year-old actors.

Do you know about this thing? No, no. I've been fan casted and it's been circulated a lot to play one of the grown-up versions of one of the It kids. Yeah. And It 2, it's supposed to be 28 years later, and I am 29, period. So they're proposing a cast where it's like Christian Bale, Jessica Chastain, someone who's under 30.

Apparently I got some city miles on me. Apparently teenagers are doing this list because they do not understand how aging works. That is exactly what it is. It's a list that's being perpetuated by teenagers. Thank you to all my teen blankies. This podcast is about filmographies. Yeah, Emily

didn't like that end. I agree. I can't say, I'm not saying Teen blankies. Blankie juniors? Yeah. What do we call them? I don't know. JV blankies. JV blankies. Yeah. Podcast about filmographies. Directors of mass success early on in their career and give a series of blank checks sometimes they

clear and sometimes they bounce baby sometimes they bonus episode yes we we're bouncing a bone where there's a bit bouncing into a bonus beautiful bouncing babe all four of us have owned up to being in a weird headspace today right sure the subway was bad emily like took the wrong train twice or something you also no i just uh got to fulton street and a two train arrived instead of a five like on the wrong platform because there's like debris and then it was like the subways were really slow it was just it was just bad oh i legitimately got on the wrong train and then took it to fulton Street in Brooklyn before I realized my mistake and then turned around and then missed my stop again. Our guest today is, of course, the mother of blankies. That's right.

Hello, my children. Hello. Are you the mother of? Hello, my little babies. Oh, boy. That's why you got so offended by the naming because you're the one who gets to name the blankies yeah yeah that's true

I will not I will not let anybody dishonor my blankies with a name that they are not it's not consensual host of a new podcast not consensual yes

c'est vrai here in the audio boom network that's right yes sister pod sister cousin

I think it's a I think it's a sister pod, I would imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've got a new podcast with Molly Lambert and Tess Lynch. It's called Night Call. It's on the Audio Boom Network. And is it self-produced? How do you?

We just talk into cans and hope somebody clicks your heart working the board uh no we have one he's making a little uh what do you call those things the little uh origami david okay fine this is such a loopy pot already what do you call a fortune teller well uh yeah that's right isn't there like a cootie catcher but that's such a that's such a teenage yeah no um but anyway ben hosley producer ben i can't do it all uh ben's eight uh sure the poet laureate great the fuck master he's done it that's it those are the four those are all of them. Is that the new,

that's the new canon. We can start from there. That'd be great actually. That's the new canon. All right. That the one he retains, the one specific is Bensei. The only one.

The reference to the canceled Netflix show. Yeah. I think it's one of the funniest. It is quite funny. Ailey bends with a dollar sign is also a really good one. It's funny because you have to explain it. Yeah. It's like a hat and a hat and a hat.

Yeah, right. But yes, our podcast is being produced by Ben, producer Ben, and we're really excited. We have only done a test episode so far. But we're recording this a while in advance. By the time this comes out, you'll be top of the charts. Yeah, we'll be running and gunning and doing ads for tampons and the whole night. Oh, yeah, tampon ads. Why don't we do some tampon ads, Ben?

Get on that. I'd love to. I don't sell ads or do anything about that. But I thought it would be funny if I said that. Okay, yeah, I'll get you some tampon ads. Sure, no problem, David. I can get you some tampon coupons if you want. I'm clipping from the...

Why? Why? Why? Oh my God. The energy is super weird. Better safe than sorry. I don't know what that means. Like getting shot? Better safe than sorry.

All right. Okay. Well, all right. You better safe than sorry. I don't know. I was trying to remember if chapeau is feminine or masculine. So I could say un chapeau. Un chapeau.

I think it's. It's male. Yeah. Un chapeau. Un chapeau. Un chapeau. Un chapeau is feminine or masculine, so I could say un chapeau. I think it's male, yeah. Un chapeau. Un chapeau. Un chapeau. Un chapeau. Between the three of us, we all speak like one French person. Yeah, we could have a conversation. I think we could.

If we linked our brains. So therefore, we are totally qualified to make all these goofy French accents. Exactly. So, you know, dear friend of the show. Now, I mean, I think, you know, there's some accounting disputes over how many episodes you've been on because the Titanic was split into two. Right. Oh, sure. That was one.

That was one sit down. That was one sit down. So you're saying podcast reawakens right which was speed racer the bridge episode before we rebranded

as blank check in which we came up with the term and you know really kind of cast the die for the future had you guys even

decided on the name blank check yet we were sort of thinking about it we were because people wanted us to keep calling ourselves Griffin and David present

people were dug in on that name the present heads were angry. So yeah, you were on the Speed Racer, you were on Titanic, you were on Strange Days, so this would mark the fifth, right? This is officially Five Timers Club. So you get the jacket.

Here's your bathrobe, here's your jacket. Exactly. Me one. But you're a big Paul Verhoeven fan. I am. And we were trying to find a place to put you in, and you almost did Hollow Man, but you weren't that passionate about it. Well, I've never seen Hollow Man.

Hollow Man? Hollow Man. The least passionate you could possibly be? Yeah, I mean, it's not intentional. It's just I never got around to it. But I'm a big fan of the, especially the Hollywood stretch of movies. I've not seen all of his non-English language films.

And then we decided. Did we announce that this is Podchipcasters, the Paul Verhoeven miniseries? Oh, Podchipcasters, Paul Verhoeven in Hollywood, but this is our bonus episode in which we're doing one non-Hollywood film. His most recent film. Although I'm hearing the Nun movie is going to be at Cannes.

Oh my God. There were huge Building Sahai ads for the Nun movie at Cannes this last year. And I was thinking, oh my God, are they doing screens of this? Like early screenings? Is there a reason that this is getting a promo push this early? And I didn't hear about it. Blessed Virgin, right? That's what it's called.

And it's got the crucifix in between the cleavage and everything. Oh, right. It's the best fucking poster of all time. God, what a wild, wacky guy. It's just like way to take the goodwill that everybody has for you after L, which most people would have for him, I feel like. Like he's definitely at a respectability high right now after this film. It's funny to think, right, that, and he wanted to make, we'll talk about it,

but he wanted to make this in Hollywood, which is hilarious. But then he makes it a French movie and everyone's like, oh. That's the fascinating thing, this is a Paul Verhoeven movie. It's a Paul Verhoeven movie through and through, but it somehow got away with this air of class to it.

People were like, but this is him doing a serious movie. And it's a legitimate piece of art, like all of his films are, but it's also totally fucking insane. And it's like a satire of French erotic thrillers in the same way I would argue that his American films are satires of... American erotic thrillers. Yes, or American action films or sci-fi films.

The score in this movie is the giveaway of that I would argue. Almost more than anything else. The score is the thing where you're like what am I watching right now? And Dudley

who did the score for Black Book as well. Yeah. So she's a collaborator. Apart from that yeah she doesn't work a lot. Pushington. She won an Oscar for The Full Monty.

For comedy score. Back when they split the score categories. Those two years. They used to have 10 score nominees in comedy and drama. That's incredible. That's how Men in Black got a score nomination. Big Pig in the City got a score nomination

damn right yeah I miss that and a Pulitzer Prize yes sure bring it back I love a good funny score I love to put on a

well would this be an original comedy score or not well that's the question she won best actress drama at the Globes right yeah I don't think the Globes are about to go

handing her this for a comedy like calling it a comedy that's the thing with the movie is you kind of like you go like I want handing her this for a comedy. That's the thing with the movie is you kind of like, you go like, I want to do this as a comedy. Because it's like dealing with very serious stuff and you run the risk of looking. It's also tense. It's also like, it's a kind of one of the scariest movies I saw that year.

It was an incredibly frightening experience watching it in a theater. Like now, on the rewatch, you're more prepared for what's, but like in the theater I almost every scene I was like someone about to like somebody's gonna like don't show me

an open window. I don't want to see anything through a window. I don't want to see her driving down the road and like another car coming for her. I don't want to see

any of that. And it's not even cheap about it. No, no, no, no. It's not like he like loads it up with jump scares but it's just after that first scene

after the first scene. Yeah. It's also that's that's the Verhoeven thing. it's like he's making a full meal symphonic movie where every emotion is like functioning as high as it can that's the verhoeven thing he's putting all these different ingredients in the pot right oh cinematically he's brewing up like a like a short rib burger with a hoppy cheddar sauce okay on a pretzel bun i mean that sounds like a nice ensemble of flavors. Right, that's what he's doing.

In the symphonic way, he's making us a seared steak with thyme pan sauce and mashed potatoes, green beans, crispy shallots. Wait, I just made that meal. But how is that possible? I mean, you only have, I don't know, 45 free minutes per night, and you are legally not allowed to go to the grocery store.

How could you possibly make that meal? It's not about legally not allowed. I'm just a tie-tie boy when I get home. Let me tell you. I was trying to help you out a little bit, make it seem like it was. I like it when the food just arrives in a box and then I can just prepare it.

Well, why are you even talking about that? We don't live in a sci-fi fantasy where that's an option, David. Okay, well, I'm going to break some news to you, I guess. There's this company called Blue Apron. What? They're friends of the show. What? And they're sponsors.

And they want to let you know that they can provide exactly the service you're talking about. They've been doing it for me. Sounds like a friend with some benefits. Benefits are tasty meals. What? And convenience. Okay, but listen. If I'm going to work with a company, okay?

Sure. I want them to be the number one fresh ingredient recipe delivery service in that country. You're in luck. They are. They offer 12 new recipes a week. You can pick two, three, or four. Have them delivered right to your door. You pull them out of the box and put them in the fridge or wherever they need to go.

And then when you're ready for dinner, they got a little card and you just cook it up. So you cook it up and then you just cook it up. So you cook it up, and then you just throw it out. It's inedible, right? It's inedible? The stuff's inedible? It's actually delicious. What?

And it's literally become like a cornerstone of my life since they started sponsoring the show. I just heard that. The amount of conversations I have with the person I live with about Blue Apron. Who do you live with?

My girlfriend. Humble brag. Yeah, well, Blue Apron's a do you live with? My girlfriend. Humble brag. Yeah, well, Blue Apron's a lot of fun. I've been using it to cook. I feel like you also sometimes struggle to cook yourself a meal. I'm largely a top ramen guy, and my sister is

obviously a very accomplished chef, Roman Newman, longtime sister, past and future guest. Yeah, right. And I decided Blue Apron's gonna allow me to try to make her proud. Right. You can actually like learn to like cook a meal.

Right. Because it's good ingredients but like the instructions are simple, like everything's packaged for you in the right way. For once I won't look like a child to her,

you know? And also they send only non-GMO ingredients like the meat has the hormones, all that, you know, it's all like good stuff. Because you know my motto. It's put has the hormones. You know, it's all that good stuff.

Because you know my motto. It's just put together by professionals. You know my motto. Yeah. GMO, GTFO. All right. Well, Blue Apron is treating blank check listeners to $30 off their first order. What kind of them?

If they visit blueapron.com slash check. Okay. So I just check that I typed in blueapron.com. No. What I want you to do is check out this week's menu and get your $30 off at blueapron.com slash check. Okay, so once again, you said all I have to do is check out the website, which is blueapron.com. What I'm saying is that the promo code is check

and that Blue Apron is a better way to cook. We have to type that in. Okay. Okay. All right. Fair enough. I mean, it sounds like I'm en route to become the Paul Verhoeven of home cooking. El. The movie is El.hoeven of home cooking. L.

The movie is L. We're doing a bonus. EO. After high demand. High demand. Crazed demand. Yeah. That's so interesting that the people who are like as stoked about.

I mean, I guess, you know. It's a recent film, obviously. Yeah, yeah. And it's one that obviously had a lot of people talking. There was a lot of discussion. It's a real conversation movie. Which is one of the reasons we were like reticent to do it. that obviously had a lot of people talking. There was a lot of discussion. It's a real conversation movie. Yes. Which is one of the reasons we were reticent to do it.

Also reticent because we are a bunch of boys. Also reticent because we were like, well, we got to delineate somehow. Well, right. It's not a Hollywood movie. We're not going to do Black Book. We're not going to do the early Dutch ones

because they're hard to see. But it just felt like, I don't know, it felt like we were leaving something on the table if we didn't talk about it somehow because it does reflect the current state of the Verhoeven you know? Well, I'm glad to be the woman

on the scene that allows you to you know, just shoot the shit about rape We've been begging for someone to give us the permission I don't want to do this I love this movie, but I feel Yeah, yeah. We've been begging for someone to give us the permission. I'm so stressed out. That's the thing.

Like, I don't want to do this. Like, I love this movie, but I feel like I can only talk about it like speakeasies, you know? Okay, well, here. Okay, so here. I don't know if you guys want to get into the actual plot or run through it like that, but I will say that, like, my experience of this movie, if it makes you feel any better, is that I saw it at Toronto, and I i saw it on i remember the screen was very large it was whatever the biggest screen did you see it in the imax yeah the imax screen at the

scotia bank it is crazy when they put a movie in this in that thing just because it's like well quite large it's very large yes um i mean which is great uh and it had already been at cam yeah right it was one of these ones that i was playing catch up with that and Handmaiden. I mean, that time I was at Toronto was great because I saw a lot of my favorite movies, but they were all ones that had been at Cannes already. But yeah, I saw it. I spent the rest of the day just being like, what was that? Just grappling with it.

I feel like I had about four conversations, I think most of them with women and female critics, about the movie, just trying to figure out how I felt. Because I had an instinct that I really liked it, but I felt like I was wrong to like it. I remember there was, in Toronto especially, a lot of conversation that I was hearing from female critics of like oh my god we cannot uh support a movie yeah there was a lot of condemnation coming like down the twitter pipes at the time so I felt a little bit like am I am I weird or wrong to feel

like this was really really smart um and I think a also, you're a Verhoeven fan, too, right? You have that in mind. Yeah, I mean... You were able to view it through the lens of getting... Yes, and I think that is so important. I think that there are so many of his films, and this is not a... I think in some ways this is a detriment

because you shouldn't have to have people really know you as a filmmaker in order to really appreciate your films. I don't think that this is necessarily a great thing, but people who don't know about his background and his relationship to living under the Nazi regime and everything like that, if you don't know that, you can watch Basic Inst instinct or whatever and like

and just enjoy it as a yeah a lord thriller but um you're not maybe gonna get you're not you're not gonna be attuned to maybe another channel that's that's on at the same time so um i but anyway i was i was feeling like i liked it and i but i had a lot of conversations with people that were like kind of trying to convince me that I shouldn't like it. And then ultimately when I had to write it up for Spin, I was like, you know, this movie is brilliant. And I DC. Well, I feel like a major like crux of the argument for and against this movie is like dude is inarguably a provocateur. Yeah.

Right. Like he's like openly trying to get a rise out of his audience. a provocateur. Yeah. Right? Like, he's, like, openly trying to get a rise out of his audience. A provocateur. Right. And some people resent that and go, like, he's just going shock for shock's sake. Sure. Right. Or, and I think it helps if you are a fan of his work, if you understand his brain, his life experience, his other films, you know how to kind of read Verhoeven to understand

what he's trying to get at by provoking you in that way and playing with your emotions uh and your fears and your anxieties and your discomfort in that way expectations of how movies are supposed to work too right yeah i do think there is just also the specific sub-genre of the movie about someone like embarking on a consensual relationship with a rapist like with their rapist in any like that's always just been like the hottest hot button there could possibly

be in any movie that depicts rape right yeah so people are especially on eggshells once whatever the plot of L is sort of revealed well I feel like this even though I mean like this, uh, even though I mean like that's,

that's a simplification of what's happening in the movie. Sure. Yeah. But I, I think that, I think that that aspect of it takes on a new kind of interesting life after the past few months, because there are so many, now we know there are so many examples of like,

you might have to maybe not be best friends with the person who is all to do, but keep continuing to live with them and like, examples of like you might have to maybe not be best friends with the person who is all to do but keep continuing to live with them and like try to just get what you can out of that situation without you know destroying yourself um and that i feel like that shade of gray that kind of murky area is something that people i think are a lot more willing to acknowledge now than they were even you know a year ago i kind of feel like if this movie came out this year, she would win Best Actress. Yeah, yeah. I think it's possible.

I think there's a greater cultural context for this film. My guess is she came second last year to Emma Stone. I know, which is nuts. It's ridiculous. Which is absolutely nuts. Are you fucking kidding me? But I do, and I'm walking on eggshells here, But the precise thing that I find really fascinating about this movie and actually kind of progressive in its own transgressive way is that we've been reading all these stories for the last couple of months where the like assholes who want to throw doubt and question onto the accounts of these survivors say like, then why do you still work for him? Well, you were in a relationship,

so if it was consensual those other times, then why was this one time not consensual? And this movie, I think, as a character study, is a really fascinating exploration of all of these sort of like emotional and psychological wins that change when something this traumatic happens

in your life. Because she doesn't follow any sort of predictable emotional arc. In terms of feeling fine with it one scene, being upset the next scene, being angry and vengeful the following scene, being attracted to him the scene after that, and then it going again in the reverse order, you know? Like it really kind of shows how disruptive these kinds of events are

to any sort of logical course of action. I saw this film later at the Alamo Drafthouse. Perfect place to see a movie. This is top five to me worst movies to see that I have seen at a theater that serves food. So you had a barbecue chicken flatbread. I'm eating my whatever, my chicken Caesar salad and watching Elle. And in like an empty theater. at a barbecue chicken flatbread. I'm eating my whatever, my chicken Caesar salad and watch an L.

And in like an empty theater. So someone's just sit standing there watching you, you know, the waiter. Oh my God. As I'm like, That's the worst. Hmm.

Okay. Okay. Do you want a refill, sir? In the middle of just the most intense scene. Uh-huh. I like, I don't, I wonder when they drop the check.

Yeah, yeah. And I remember like, I was somewhat put off by the movie and uh like i just sort of walked out of that being like what the fuck am i supposed to do with that you know like i was and um then i want to shout out i remember listening to this podcast called um i think it was called long takes which screen crush used to put out with brit hayes and oliver whitney that like sadly got discontinued for reasons i do not know and their first episode was about l and i listened to it and i was like you know whatever they they were sort of saying like oh you know this is a movie about like how frightening her reaction to all the events in this movie are to the men around her and like and confusing and like uh and like the power of of what she's doing

in the movie, that's the central question, not the power of the men around her. And I was like, oh, okay. And I hadn't watched Elegant until now and then I put it on and I'll admit I laughed a lot and was kind of delighted by the movie.

I saw it with my French mother at the paris great new york great uh it was great for the paris yeah showing l good for them yeah sorry so what were you gonna say where's the paris it's uh by the plaza hotel it's near it's like the only remaining like big one screen theater in New York City oh okay like you could still host a premiere there

maybe it's not that big oh I thought that all that closed I've been to premieres there but smaller premieres it's smaller it always is showing

what you think it would be showing so right now it's showing Call Me By Your Name it's always showing the most sort of old school

European film that's going to appeal to a slightly older audience it is almost exclusively Sony Pictures Classics yes like Sony Pictures Classics just owns that spot old school European film that's going to appeal to a slightly older audience it is almost exclusively Sony Pictures Classics yes like Sony Pictures Classics

just owns that spot but like Victoria and Abdul will do like a fucking sellout three month run oh yeah it's like

Showtime at the Apollo and it's huge it's got like a balcony it's a huge screen and they just play these old people movies like

I mean and like sometimes that is a movie like Call Me By Your Name which like to be fair is like you know not just an old people movie sometimes they're still edgy films but it's james ivory right exactly right uh or it has to be an au pair vehicle or whatever it is you know it has to have some air of that kind of thing to it and i my mom knows that i'm like a verhoeven obsessive. I got her to appreciate Robocop, you know,

even though she was initially turned off by the sort of like crass maximalism of it. The fact that it's called Robocop. Right. She was 100% against the idea that it was called Robocop. And I don't think she's seen any of his other films. She hasn't seen Basic Instinct? Maybe she saw Basic Instinct at the time.

Maybe. There's no way my mom has seen Basic Instinct. There's no way my mom has seen it. I don't think my mother has ever seen a Paul Verhoeven movie. I think if my mom saw Basic Instinct, she totally dismissed it. I know she doesn't like Sharon Stone. Fair enough. But so I was sitting there and like... Rude by MO.

Right. In a screening with like a bunch of old people, right? At the Paris, right. At the Paris. It was like a pretty stuffy, not like a bunch of old people right at the Paris it was like a pretty stuffy not like a hip screening and I was sitting there

the whole time being like am I insane for thinking this is funny am I like bringing too much into it because of the Rehoven when the movie ended

I was just like what did you think like I just wanted to hear my mom talk about it for 15 minutes and she fucking loves it

she like totally loves it and she's loves it she like totally loves it and she's very interested she's a big fan of the type of movie this film is in dialogue with right okay she's very into sort of erotically charged french dramas okay sure um and and is a big upera fan because if you lift the rape plot out of this movie it's still about a like

fancy business lady who's having an affair with her best friend's husband and then also the sons of fuck up and it's like it feels like a French movie

through and through like all of her little like rotating universes yeah and she also said like that I can't get over how French that movie is she was like

that movie gets the dynamics of like a certain type of upper class Parisian better than I've seen in any French movie the last 10 years the guy jerks off into a garbage can she's rolling around in bed with her best friend and they're like huh

to be lesbians hilarious but she was just like you know how they speak what they order at the restaurant all of it is so but they have like pipe or hide sick for their like casual friday friend dinner or whatever yeah yeah yeah like the other thing that feels just so verhoeveny is the video game company yeah okay so that's the biggest thing to talk about yeah and when you were saying like the hint like the score is a hint of what he's sort of like yeah getting that in the movie the whole all the video game shit's another yeah yeah because she's essentially playing verhoeven

like she's playing like a french female paul verhoeven yeah yeah no i feel like for one isn't that game like really bad looking for right now it looks terrible yeah the game makes no fucking sense what is the game besides the monster tentacle rape stuff and everything but like it just looks like the graphics are it looks like a PS2 game it's junky and also it's like they're jumping around

some platforms I was just like what is the like object of this game like when the annoying guy stands up and he's like this isn't fun to play I was like

it doesn't look that fun what's the target audience of this game? well the thing I think the thing like between the score and the video games and this is one of these things

that's like I guess if you're not paying attention this would seem really really tacky is like having the dramatic sting of the score come in like when she is actually getting raped like at that moment of the attack

and it being like this type thing which is also how the video game treats the violation of this female character this mannequin or whatever, it's just like this is the worst most shaggy thing that could happen and it feels

like it's a little bit of a faint or something there's a secret sauce, I believe, in this movie working as well as it does. He has said that he did not direct her at all. Direct Isabel. He didn't talk to her about the character at all. He read the script. He said the person who can pull this off is Isabel Pérez.

And he went to her and he said, look, if I get you, get you this movie works and i'm just gonna fully trust you with this character and he was very involved with everything else but he gave her a lot of authorship over the movie he said he like never directed her never questioned her never even spoke to her about how she was internalizing the character and that just gave her the chance to fully own that a lot of the narrative, you know? Can I give you some context? Like further context? I'm a concert of context.

Because I do enjoy this. I'm a concert of context. Oh, are you going to say the name of the book that it's? Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Which I believe it is a French book, is it not? It is, yeah. So it's funny to me because. It hasn't been translated. Right. So he, so I don't know, you know, to what extent this like he was to the book, Right. So I don't know to what extent he was to the book.

I don't know how close it is. But he announces this movie at the Cannes Film Festival, much as he does with his Nunn movie, as you were just saying. And he wants Nicole Kidman for the role. That is his opening gambit. She doesn't want it. He also considered, according to this, Charlize Theron, Julianne Moore,

Sharon Stone, Marion Cotillard, Diane Lane, Carice Van Houten. None of them want it. And none of them would have worked. I would argue. I pretty much love all of those actresses. Nicole Kidman might have worked. She might have been good.

She's the closest. I still think if you're setting in France, it has to be a French person. Well, no, but it wasn't going to be set in France. It was going to be set in Chicago. Dumb. That's my take on that is dumb. Then he said, you know,

who would be perfect is Jennifer Jason Leigh, who is his old collaborator from Flesh and Blood. Who would be very good. But he also admitted basically like, I'm not going to get any money to make a movie with Jennifer Jason Leigh. It's just the sad reality of the thing. So then he decides, all right, I'm going to make any money to make a movie uh sure about with jennifer jason lee it's just the sad reality of the thing so then he decides all right i'm gonna make it in france and then now he starts talking shit where he's like you know if i'd done in america it would have been like basic instinct

and i think it would have been a totally different movie i would have had to like lean into like the american sex thriller stuff and so he he gets isabel, who liked the book. She was into the book before Verhoeven was attached. Before it was cool. But she loved Verhoeven. And she's like royalty in France. She's one of the most critically beloved actors alive. She rules.

She rules. She's great. Who doesn't love Isabelle? Everyone loves Isabelle. And the same year she was in Things to Come, which is like the opposite movie where not much happens and it's very internal and

sort of quiet. It's about aging. Which is usually what she does. I mean, that's kind of her specialty. She can play a hard ass. She can. She's done like the piano teacher. She's happy to do very emotionally intense material.

Yes, she can do icy as well as anybody. But the time... David Ehrlich has this story of sitting next to her at the Sony dinner at Toronto. Yeah. And she was talking to her seat. He was at the L table. Yeah.

And she was talking to whoever she was sitting next to and apparently got bored of him and just turned to Erlich and was like okay now you you'll talk to me. And I just started talking to him and

he should tell it. It's a good story. Oh God. I would just die. I would just melt. There was that great meme last year when she was doing the

whole award circuit where it's like that seems like in your mind you think like oh that's one of those actors who's probably like too cool for awards like doesn't want to do the dog and pony show

she usually either plays badasses or like very emotionally intelligent introspective people she doesn't need that and then it was just like every award show Isabelle Huppert was like a bar mitzvah boy she was so cute and she won that gold she fucking loves awards who doesn't I love an award

give me one me too but a lot of people go to you know i don't believe in actors competing artists or you know yeah and she was like yeah give me that fucking hardware i'm isabella perry i rule she seems like she has a good time like she for as serious as an actor she is like she doesn't appear to take herself too seriously in those settings which i appreciate yeah it makes me think that she's just like all the more i don't know like committed to the right things sure yes um there was some critic and now i forget who it is who in a review of this movie last year said she's so good it's like her skin is acting it's a good good line right and i just think about that whenever i see her now where it's just like

because so often she does those sort of like blank stare you know well in this one she does a lot of the like yeah a lot of the like

yeah right do you want to hear my impression of a French person which I think is very much in line with this movie ask me any question how you doing griffin

that really is right yes it's like ask answering any questions a burden to me like where's the ticket stand for the train no one in france it's true has ever been excited to answer your question yeah it's never easy it's never like in america yeah someone asks me like hey does this go to 42nd street i'm like oh yes yes i can't wait to tell you this information yeah have me thinking of my mother but she does like a lot of a lot of that in this a lot of that in this yeah

so this movie starts right away with the thing yes right well first starts with a a cat a cat

a cat and I like I really like that the shot the that the shot does not is so impassive like basically in both cases

and I feel like it is like the first bucking of this thing where it's like she lives she's a woman of a certain age living on her own she's only got a cat in a very nice apartment with a lot of bay doors yes and it's like the cat that would be her friend that's like the only creature that understands her only got a cat and like in a very nice apartment with a lot of bay doors yes which like

and it's like the cat that would be her friend that's like the only creature that understands her but the cat doesn't give a shit about her no

cat's like leave me alone and that's your first hint that like oh the deck is just sort of like automatically stacked against this woman because even her fucking cat isn't going to like

come and attack this guy I also feel like it's like him doing like an anti-Gary Marshall where like Gary Marshall is famous for being like cut to a dog it's funny him doing like an anti-Gary Marshall. Or like Gary Marshall is famous for being like, cut to a dog, it's funny. Like anytime anything funny happened in a movie, cut to a dog like tilting its head.

That's an impression. Even the dog's reacting. And in this movie, anytime something terrible is happening, motionless, still. I guess something's happening over there. And I think he's like kind of making the cat an audience surrogate where it's like you're just sitting there watching this. Yeah. Like you're not doing anything. You can't do anything.

And also, of course, we then in the flashback see that she let the cat in and that was what. Right. Like prompted an opening for her attacker. Yes. But yeah, she is raped in her home by an assailant in a ski mask. Violently. Very violently. A lot of head bashing.

Right. It's pretty bad. And then she takes a bath and cleans up the mess and acts like nothing has happened. Like five minutes.

Her son stops by and he's like, how you doing? And she's like, ah, so far. You know, like,

you know. But there's even the moment where I could tell he was doing something very different was how long he lingers on her alone on the floor after the attacker has left. Because that's the thing you never get in movies.

Yeah. It's such an overused thing to use like rape and sexual assault as a dramatic device in films to create conflict. But it's always just you have to see the action. Yeah. And then you don't get that moment, which is the most upsetting moment, which is someone just sitting there. And trying to figure out what happened. Processing what happened. And he stays on her for like a minute.

And this whole movie is about processing what happened like in her own way and in a way that makes you actually have to process it yourself because what she's doing is so not what you would expect that you start thinking about why you expect what you expect. She's not suffering emotionally for you. Right. Right. So if she seems fine with it,. She's not suffering emotionally for you. Right. Right. Yeah. So if she seems fine with it, then should I not be upset about it? Right.

But then the next scene. And now you're worried that you don't feel upset about it or. Exactly. And then you start to realize that just because she's a woman in a movie doesn't mean that she stands in for all women in movies or in real life. It's a story about one. One woman. And of course part of her very specific reaction to

a lot of things is her very specific background yeah uh as the daughter of a famed murderer yeah yes uh and there has always been this lingering question of how involved she was in the murders what she knew or didn't know and there's this famous photo yes of her the father killed a bunch of uh people in their town right growing up and there's this photo of like a 10 year old girl with an au pair like sort of icy stare yeah yeah um i i kind of i forget the nature like the like reasoning behind the killings or whatever spurred them. But it doesn't have that monologue. Something to do with Catholicism.

I don't know. Well, he was like a good Catholic man. They say this. Like, you know, how could that happen? Like, so surprising, you know, that this sort of family man, religious. Yeah. It was something about excommunication. Like, he was like going around

and letting the children excommunicate from the church i think is what i wrote oh yeah or was he excommunicated i don't i can't there's that one monologue she has where she's trying to freak out you know patrick yeah lauren lafitte uh who plays her assailant. It's tough to remember because you do get conflicting tellings as the movie goes on. You're right. Yeah, sure. So she still has a relationship with her mom, we find out. But she like, in a very like testy one. Yes, played by Judith Magre.

And she kind of exists within culture as almost like a Patty Hearst type figure. Sure. Right. Yeah. Where people don't know how to feel about her. People recognize her in the streets and oftentimes feel emboldened to like throw food at her. Right. She gets food dumped on her early on in the movie.

And it's like that's another routine sort of humiliation that she has to just like deal with. But in the first 30 minutes of the movie, before they start explaining that she has to just like deal with but in the first 30 minutes of the movie before they start explaining that you're just like okay i've just watched this woman suffer a horrible assault and now strangers are yelling at her like coming up toward the restaurant yeah like it feels like is this a movie about like the entire world just choosing one person to turn against and then you realize this whole added element of, well, is the deck stacked against anyone feeling sympathy or empathy for her, regardless of what happens to her because of what they associate her with? Yeah. And also the fact that, you know, maybe in response, she's become, you know, a bitch. She's certainly got a specific way of talking to people yeah dealing with people yeah she's not you know there's she doesn't do a lot to you know make people like her

she doesn't go out of her way to make people like her we'll say that doesn't suffer fools yes doesn't uh is not one for platitudes i also said a bitch with like a kind of affection. But I'm allowed to say that. Yes, yes, you are. We are not. And yes, she is this video game auteur. Right, then we cut to her at this video game company she runs that is making a game about mind tentacle rape or something. Right, yeah. Some sort of horror. I don't know.

Like, we don't. I mean, whatever. I don't know how much thought for her we put into it. But she was supposed to come out of like like a literary career publishing and she's like being an avant-garde

game designer yes sure France I don't know maybe that's what happened in France and this game

sort of feels like her blank check project like she's coming off a big success and it's taken a long time for them to get another one out right and she has to deal with all these young testosterone She's coming off a big success. They had a hot game. It's taken a long time for them to get another one out. Right.

And she has to deal with all these young, testosterone-y nerd boys who are like, you are not a true gamer. Yeah. Monty's going to be so mad at us. The word when this started, I think maybe... Sorry, Monty. Just sweet little... I think not after Cannes, but I think that the first trailer for this had come out before I saw it in Toronto.

And there was this sort of word that was like, did Verhoeven make a Gamergate movie? Yeah. Which I was very, very excited about. It's not that, but I mean, it deals with it just enough. But there's a little bit of that energy. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, you know, excited about it's not that but i mean it deals with a little bit of that energy yeah yeah and i

mean i you know it's it aside from not really necessarily making a whole lot of sense for her character or at least what we know of her character it is like the perfect thing for her to be doing in the context of this film i feel like right just because she's surrounded by this like annoying male energy well and when she and when she gets attacked and then she starts getting these notes and everything, it's just like, then it's just like, oh shit, I'm surrounded by potential, you know, scumbags,

violent scumbags maybe. She does this critique of the game which runs weirdly like a screening. Right. And then is very harsh with her notes. Yeah. So now everyone is just like, fuck our boss.

It doesn't seem like the first time nor will it be the last time there's one guy that loves her one little dude loves her very beautiful penis apparently yes so we're told according to her I don't know

she might have a specific taste wait did she say it's beautiful no she says it looks Jewish but she's sort of like fond of it apparent i mean i don't know she she's she does she does one of these yeah right exactly she goes but then this this video this gif or whatever starts circulating

around the office where they have superimposed her face I feel like that's a little bit later that comes a little later so I mean just to set up her life

she runs a video game company she's divorced from her slightly schlubby ex-husband played by Charles Berling who's also a writer yeah

yes right and he's like trying to shop around some project where he's like, it's like No, he wants to get into video games. He wants to make a video game. He has an idea for a video game about robot dogs. Sounds fine. And you play the robot dog Spartacus.

No one wants this game of his. And she said that it was like too intellectual for her company. Seems like letting him down easy maybe yeah she is having an affair with her best friend's husband she wrote she wants the company with her best friend who is played by anna consigny i think and then her husband yes she's great and then her husband's like this bald doofus played by christian burkle who is irresistible to these two fascinating captivating guys a dork yeah and then she's got a total fuck-up son.

A large adult son. She really has a large... A real large adult son. Boy, oh boy. What's his name? Vincent. Vincent, yeah. Vincent.

And then he's got a sort of like, I mean, like exaggerated harpy, like, you know, shrew. Like, I don't know, like you could use every like, like pejorative expression for like a hen pecking woman a classic baby mama sure um who's just on his case but at the same time this guy is such a fuck up that you're sort of like it's hard to have any sympathy for her son right yeah and i think what happens to this the the mom the mother of his child is i think an interesting turn for this movie agreed it makes me have also more faith in the movie as not being just like hateful and

distrustful and not just being button pushing yeah yeah yeah because her character early on especially like what i'm saying like her early scene she's just screaming she's just the worst and and well we'll get to yeah her child and that's it and Huppert hates her Huppert hates her because she's mean to her son but Huppert also

I mean she knows her son she doesn't trust her right oh and Huppert's character is called Michelle LeBlanc and she is

canonically Matt LeBlanc's sister as well yes yeah this is 90s no wait

no never mind no it's yeah it's current there's the point in the film where she picks up the phone and calls her brother and goes

how are you doing what how are you doing how are you doing how are you

doing bing dong bing dong thought we would get through this episode without alright okay get the door let me take it yeah How are you doing? Bing dong. I thought we would get through this episode without. All right. Okay. Get the door. Let me take it. Yeah.

Who can plant a rosebud? You again. Pick petunias too. I thought we got rid of this guy. Cultivate the flowers and deliver them to you. Done with him. Dan Candyman can. All right.

Dan, are you here to talk about flowers again and not candy? Because even though your name is Dan Candyman, all you would talk about was flowers last time. I'm here just to check in, say hello. Oh, all right. I thought we moved past the transactional phase to being friends, but apparently I'm not. As warmly welcomed here as I thought I would be. I'm sorry. It's just usually when people ring a doorbell,

which Ben installed for the podcast, by the way. Weird decision. Bad decision of an audio medium. Well, I just wanted to make sure if someone was outside, they could maybe use a light or something. Usually they just have some service to tell us about, but I guess not. And in that case, it's nice to see you, Dave.

Yes, look, I'm a pro flower man, but I'm also a human being. And sometimes I just like to say hello to my friends. Hello, David. How are you doing? I'm fine. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. Griffin, how are you doing? I'd rather not talk. Listen. Yeah.

I got to be honest with you. I said I was doing all right, but it's not true. What's the matter? I haven't gone through a rough patch. Sorry to hear that, Dan. Even though we don't know each other well, I'm still sorry to hear that. You know, there's the old saying in the Candyman family. Just do it. Okay.

All right. That's an old saying in the Candyman family? Yeah. You got to just do it, right? Okay. Because we are depressive people. Where's this going? Winter months hit us hard.

Sure. Yeah. My job is usually delivering things, but I... It's tougher in the winter. I don't even want to get off the couch. Okay. Honestly, I'm trying to figure out if there's a way I can get my products to people without having to, you know, door to door. Well, with stamps.com, you can access all the services of the post office right from your desk. I have a desk.

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I'm not. Okay, come on. I already told you I'm going through a dark patch. I'm sorry, Dan. I'm sorry. Don't kick me while I'm down. Yeah, sure. I want to be friends. Why do you think I showed up in the middle of an episode record? I don't know. going through a dark patch. I'm sorry, Dan. I'm sorry. Don't kick me while I'm down. Yeah, sure. I want to be friends.

Why do you think I showed up in the middle of an episode record? I don't know. You're obnoxious. Hey, hey, hey. All right. Well, let me break the ice here. Okay. Stamps.com will even send you a digital scale.

You can weigh your letters and packages. You can print the exact amount of postage every time. Wow. I know. It's a good service. I've been using it been using service like that sounds priceless uh like we you know we've got merch i don't i don't know ben well yeah we can tease it we can tease it we got merch coming and this is a service that will really really help us

with that process we can use stamps.com to send stuff out like without having to leave the house. You're saying with Sam.com you can have it your way? I'm saying that right now our listeners including you are you a listener? No, no, no.

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the word check. It's a four week trial and that includes postage and digital scale. I guess you're imploring me to think different. I'm imploring you to go to stamps.com before you do anything else. Click on the radio microphone at the top of the homepage and type in check. That's stamps.com. Enter check.

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Wow, the king of beers. Get out of here, Danny. These are old family phrases. I'll catch you up. We'll catch up later. I've got to talk L. I'm going to go back to hiding under the covers of my bed. All right.

Staring down existential dread. Sorry, Dan. Who can plant a rosebud? All right. Amis. I don't know. What do they call friends in French? Un bon ami.

Un bon ami. Les bon amis. Copains. Copains. Les copains. So that's her life. And then also she's got this mysterious assailant who, like, she has to look over her shoulder for it every second. Yes.

Because he burst into her home and attacked her. And then she starts getting creepy text messages. And then he calls her, texts her, leaves a computer open. I don't know if it's her computer or his computer, but leaves it in the bed. Bed. And incidentally, she also has a hot sexy neighbor yes she does um with a very christian wife right very sort of boring uh repressed wife i guess that is a sweater man and his wife it is a sweater man it's a classic yeah he's a sweater man um god one of the the funniest lines in it they're like one

of the funniest parts in it is when they have the Christmas dinner or when they're setting up the nativity outside their house and she's just like, doesn't it just warm your heart? It's where it all began. And Huppert gives her this look that's just like, what the fuck is the matter with you? Excuse moi.

And you see, then they're setting up the nativity and she watches and masturbates that's like quite early on in the movie right I didn't imagine that right

yeah no that's yeah cause that's before that she it's when she's having this sort of flirtation with the neighbor who's played by Laurent Lafitte

who's also the guy who like made a Woody Allen joke last year that everybody lost their fucking minds about right he's a stand up right who was like hosting some shows like hey Woody Allen you haven year that everybody lost their fucking minds about. Right, he's a stand-up primary.

Right, who was like hosting some show. He's like, hey, Woody Allen, you haven't even been convicted of rape like Roman, you know, or something like that. And everyone was like, oh, you know, like the whole French. How dare. Anyway, so that's what I'm.

He's also, he was in, what else has he been in? I don't know. He's been in a lot of stuff. He's like a French guy. Yes. Did you hear about that letter that all the French

actors and directors Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where it's like, what are we, not allowed to make out anymore or something like some like We're recording this episode at the beginning of January.

Yeah, let's not. Let's not infringe on Yeah. Okay, well I have to say though that that is one of I have a tweet that I figure

I will have many uses for to bring up over and over and over again. And it's just, in parentheses, aristocrats voice. France! That is my response. Oh, boy. I'm trying to think if there are any other threads worth commenting on.

Well, her mom. Her mom who has some kind of kept boy that she pays apparently, but then eventually has to marry her. And like early on, Michel Huppert walks into the house and he's like sort of like massaging her feet or something.

He's just like in his underwear massaging her feet. They're very wealthy, but it's like dirty money. So she lives in this beautiful apartment with this beautiful man and this very exorbitant life, but when she walks out in the street, people throw shit at her. How did they make the money? Is that

clear? No, it's Upera's money. She bought the house because after the mom dies, spoiler, she comes by and she's putting it up for sale. Oh, that's right. You're right. Because the guy was just going to still live there with his new girlfriend.

With his naked girlfriend. Yeah. But I mean, but I find their relationship to be so interesting because she obviously spends a lot of time with her, but is so mortified by everything that she does. Which is not that dissimilar from her relationship with her son, really. Yeah. Right. by everything that she does.

Which is not that dissimilar from her relationship with her son, really. Yeah. Where she has a lot of affection and wants to be involved, but she can't stand anything that they're doing. Yeah.

Yeah. And I also think it's reflective of she has a disrespect for the mother for falling in love with her father. Sure.

In a weird way. It's like, how could you have such poor judgment? Right. And the mother is slightly more defensive of the father and is sort of encouraging her to see her father in prison. Or she has a much more, it feels like she has moved on from the incident in a way that Michelle has not. And I think that's probably the source in a way that Michelle has not. And I think that's probably the source of a lot of the resentment as well. The fact that she can just like have this younger guy and just like,

you know, try to have a comfortable life. Just enjoy it. Be a bon vivant, one might say. Bon vivant. My old lady. Maggie Smith.

Bon vivant. Yeah, and yeah, she's getting Botox and stuff like that. I mean, I don't know. But I mean, honestly, you know, if you had a husband who shopped up a bunch of people, I would probably, you know. Yeah, Emily's just like props. Props, do it. Right.

At this point, like maybe you deserve to have some fun. Yeah. You know? You're worth it. Yeah. That's what L's about. do it right yeah at this point like maybe you deserve to have some fun yeah you know you're worth it yeah that's what l's about it's because you're worth it yeah um so yeah so this is a long movie it's a long um but it's not like it's it is plotty but it's you know it's just sort of like it's a lot of a lot of shit happening i mean right it's just like all of these elements she's like a prism for all of this like you It's just like all of these elements she just sort of ping-pongs between them. She's like a prism for all of this.

Like you just see all of these none of these relationships are inconsequential. No. All of them reflect on her in an interesting way.

None of them drive the plot exactly but none of them are meaningless. And it also is it's a thing I love in good dramatic writing where she

is very very different with each of them. Yeah, that's true. You get a lot of a very thorough picture of who she is as a person because of how different she is in each relationship and even whether

it's one-on-one or three people, how affected she is by who is or isn't in the room. Yeah. You know, because you're spending the movie trying to figure out what's going on in her head. She so rarely verbalizes what she's actually feeling. Yes, but also, and Verhoeven has led with such a shocking thing. Right. Not just the rape, but her reaction to it where you're just like, what?

Yeah. Why is this happening? You're destabilized the entire time. Right. So at some points, you're going like, is this the most honest reflection of who she is? Is this the defensive persona? Yeah. Why? Why is this happening? You're destabilized the entire time. Right. So at some points you're going like, is this the most honest reflection of who she is? Is this the defensive persona? Sure. Is she more like herself with her mother than she is with her friends?

You know, when is her guard actually down? But it is also funny. This is like a weird social comedy. Yeah. About upper crust French. Yeah. People. The Parisian bourgeois.

Sure. Of the 21st century. Yeah. French people. The Parisian bourgeois of the 21st century. It kind of reminds me a little bit, in a very, very different way. But I do like what doofs most of the men are in it in very specific ways. It kind of reminds me of the Love Witch in ways where all of the guys that pass through this, like, obviously like this woman who is by no means perfect, but she's, she's, uh,

doing what she has to do to, to, you know, get through, uh, her life and all the guys she encounters are like just all weak in some really key way. That is ultimately a problem for her. Um,

and like her son is like the most clear example of that that's one thing we can talk about the ending when we get there but that's another thing that people did not like about this movie was how it resolves

her son and how it resolves her rapist also and but I think that's like one of the most brilliant parts of the movie I do too

well I guess it makes the movie weirdly kind of circular yeah right because let's just sort of tackle it character by character because it's like I do too. It makes the movie weirdly kind of circular. Let's just sort of tackle it character by character. The middle part of the movie is her trying to figure out who her assailant is in various ways. And she has the scene with the video game designer where she realizes he's making these creepy videos of her. But he's just making creepy videos of her because he's obsessed with her right and

at that in that point it's just like okay you're like number five maybe on my list yeah right so she responds by uh cucking him i don't know what the fuck you know like whatever let me let me see that dick all right it's like simultaneously he's in it for the lulz he's looking for the approval of his like co-workers and it's like the little kid pushing the girl he likes on the playground yeah sure yeah well and and the fact that i think that that's like a kind of a good foreshadowing of what actually happens with her and laurel and fete's character uh later on and that she has identified some kind of thing that he wants from her right and therefore can exploit it and like turn it on its head in a way um and she does that in you know a very clean and you know uh a cold way with him

but then you know i feel like a similar thing ends up happening with her and her and the what's his name the little neighbor neighbor? Patrick. Patrick. And Patrick kind of lurks for the first half of the movie. There's not like a lot of him. There's more of the son and the family. Well, they go through when there's like a storm that comes through and he comes and closes. This is before she finds out that it's him. Right.

Or maybe it's like right before. It's right before. Yeah, because he comes and helps her close all the shutters to her house. The most erotic shutter closing sequence in the history of film. You know what it reminds me of? And this is only because this is January and the holidays have just happened and I tend to watch this movie every year is Meet Me in St. Louis. Yeah.

Great movie. Yeah, I see that. Because there's the scene where Judy Garland leads a guy through the house the candles yeah they put out the candles

and it's this totally charged thing where they're like oh there's one more candle over here we have to put it out together

I love that movie and I love that scene I love how much Meet Me in St. Louis is about like house business you know like just sort of like

all the shit that goes into this it's weirdly ritualistic this whole sequence of him helping her close all the windows yeah you know it's like you have to watch them do it one at a time um but there's this vague sexual tension you've sensed between the two of them up until this point in the movie which has always been when they're in group settings and now that it's just the two of them and also for this whole section of the movie, which has always been when they're in group settings, and now that it's just the two of them, and also for this whole section of the movie, as you said

earlier, he spent an hour just cranking up the tension where any time there's an open window, you pay attention to every sound or the absence of sound, you're so terrified by what's existing outside of the frame. Right, and there's certain frightening scenes like when she smashes the car window

and pepper sprays someone, but then it turns out it's her doofy ex-husband. Right. You know, like there's moments where you think something hard, or even the scene where she confronts the video game guy. Yes. Which like feels like it could turn on a dime.

Like he could like lunge at her or something, and then, you know, it takes a more comical route. Makes him show her a peek at the pain. Yeah. Has the scene where she goes axe shopping happened at this point? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

That's early because that's when she smashes the window. She gets that cool axe. She also goes to the gun range a couple times? Yes. The thing I was trying to find,

because I don't remember if I used this in a piece, but because I saw it handmade and I feel like the same day that I saw Elle, the first time I saw it. Wow, that is a double bill. It's such a good double bill.iden, I feel like the same day that I saw Elle, the first time I saw it. Wow, that is a double bill. It's such a good double bill, honestly.

I would recommend it. I love the Handmaiden. If you're watching this movie and then you feel like you need something light to follow it up with. Right. But there's this, oh yeah. But there's a line in it that kind of like, I guess resonated because I saw it at the same time where somebody somebody asks oh yeah did the big house make her go mad um which I totally feel like and that made the house feel like a character in Elle to me because it is like this thing of like if you're just a single woman

and you're in this big drafty thing I mean I I feel this a lot uh when I am because we live in New York we live in these tiny little shoe boxes but if I'm ever anywhere outside in New York and we live in these tiny little shoeboxes. But if I'm ever anywhere outside of New York and I happen to be alone in a house, I'm just like, oh shit. There are empty rooms in this house. I definitely, I mean, yes, I have the New York thing of not being able to handle open quiet at all. All the money in the world, all those scenes that take place in the Getty Mansion feel like Frankenstein to me. Like they feel like a Universal Monsters movie

where it's like so big and there's just like a fire in the corner and he's this little man and they all have to like walk 15 miles to meet him in the other side of the room.

I mean, I don't love that movie but that's when it comes alive to me because Scott's just like, ugh, look at this. You know, he's filming it like

it's the fucking alien corridors or something. He films that house so fucking well. But then he gets, I think he just gets so bored by other people. Do you know where they shot it?

In England somewhere, I think. Okay. Yeah. Why? Oh, because I went over Christmas in North Carolina.

We went to the Biltmore house. Is that a Getty estate? It's a Rock, or no. Oh, it was Rockefeller? What do we got? Or was it a Getty estate? It's a Rockefeller. Or was it a Rothschild? Let's go through all the famous American industrialists. I'm totally forgetting now. No, it wasn't a Rockefeller.

The Biltmore House. It is America's largest house. It is horrifying. Oh, it's big. It's so big. Vanderbilt. It's the Vanderbilt. Yes, that's the one we forgot. Yeah. Still owned by the Vanderbilt. Oh, our's big. It's so big. Vanderbilts. It's the Vanderbilts. Yes, that's the one we forgot.

Yeah. Still owned by the Vanderbilts. Oh, our first families. That's where Anderson weekends. It was pretty horrifying, though, because, like, I— So it's not a publicly— No, it's the Vanderbilts, right. It is a privately owned attraction.

It costs $65 to go there. That's a lot of money. And it's one of these things where they just, like, push you through, like, you're going through intestines and you go through all the rooms and everything but there's no unlike an educational place

there's like no history there. It's just like look at the big house. Isn't it great? America. And we went there like two days after the tax bill passed

and I was just like fuck this shit. I was in a bad mood there. Great. But yeah, I was like this place would feel hella haunted if you were there by yourself for the weekend. The only way I wouldn't feel haunted is if it was filled with tourists like that.

You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bring the tourists. Yeah. Like I just, whenever I see houses that big, I'm like, who would want to live here? You just feel spooked all the time. England is just like lousy with houses like that. Like you can't drive five miles without like running into one of those.

So I've been to so many big giant houses full of art in my life. Spooky. But England's different. They had a thousand years to big, and they also have a royal family. They had like dukes and duchesses and stuff like that.

We just had capitalists. Inclinated wolfmen running wild. Draculas, Frankensteins, mummies. Horror movie characters. Big houses. I get it. I get it i get it anyway um yeah no i just i think that the i think that the house being big and drafty is definitely a part of what makes this film work as a suspense movie yes uh the environments are good and he's doing some really good kind of like hitchcockian basic like thriller filmmaking.

You know, just with building up a sense of dread and anticipation that you're on edge the entire movie because at any moment you think something might happen. How you doing, Benny? I just gave Ben a pat. I'm doing good. I'm writing my take for the end. Oh, wow. Ben's take.

Oh, boy. Oh, I'm bringing it back. Continue with the conversation. So, wow. Ben Steak. Oh, boy. Holy laureate. Yeah, bringing it back. Okay. Continue with the conversation. So, wait. Okay, so I love the Christmas dinner scene. I think that's incredible. Yep. It reminds me a little

of the Thanksgiving scene in the first Spider-Man. Ah. In the first Spider-Man. When the Green Goblin comes over for Thanksgiving dinner and Willem Dafoe's, like, carving the turkey

with a knife and, like like laughing. I don't remember this. I mean, I haven't seen it since it was in. But it's probably like the Michael Keaton like driving to the party scene. But it's more overtly comedic, which is why I equate it to this where it's just like all this weird tension and then just these like weird explosive. She invites everyone in the movie over to her house basically she's like because also she even invites

like her ex-husband's new girlfriend who's like a yoga teacher right because she feels bad for smashing her car window and like so everyone gets to come and witness each other I guess behaving badly this is also where she unloads her

my father was a serial killer monologue on Patrick. What else happens? She feels him up under the table. What else? Nothing happens with Anna's doofy husband, but we should describe. Their affair. Their affair is like.

It's hilarious. Again, it's so funny, but it would not be funny if it was a real thing right uh they have like two or three sex scenes and it's like it's like the first one is like the day after he finds out that she was attacked and yeah it's like i don't i'm not in the mood and then that's the one where she sets the the trash can right he's like come on and she's like fine and puts the trash can under his dick. And it's just like, I'll give you a handjob in the office or something. Like, it's like very dark and grim.

Yeah. But it's kind of funny. Then he, I mean, but the other times, and it doesn't get any better with them. It's like, I can't even imagine when they had a hot a hot steamy affair going on the uh line in the hotel yes this is where they hook up yeah and he goes and i mean it's it's really funny he's like he's like that whole dead fish thing you did that was genius something to that effect yeah oh my god yeah all right he always says the wrong thing. Yeah. Uh, he's also attractive. Yes.

Yeah. He looks like a thumb. No, he looks like Howie Mandel, like a French Howie Mandel. Old Howie Mandel. Yeah. Howie Mandel.

Howie Mandel. Oh, Howie. Howie. Howie. Uh, deal or no deal? A faire ou pas a faire? Uh, deal or no deal? Hacer or pas hacer?

Deal or no deal? Bobby's what? Deal? Cans. That's someone playing deal or no deal. Cans? Which suitcase? I just want a sound clip of just everybody doing their best

French thinking man sound I some years ago I some years ago made my foolhardy attempt to put together an SNL tape and all I wanted to do was that yeah just

I just wanted to do that my agents were like you can't just you were like we're leading with it six times yeah they were like

that's too short an impression I was like I have no better impression I will never have a better impression than everyone in that entire country oh man

it's the face too you you folks at home can't see it we're all doing some great face work yeah we are um i also i'm for i want to shout out that her son works at quick um when i when i oh yes when i lived in france i used to go to quick a lot which is an insult to a country that makes such great food that i would go to its mcdonald's because they also have mcdonald's which i used to go to quick a lot which is an insult to a country that makes such great food that I would go to it's McDonald's because they also have McDonald's which I would never go to I would only go to quick because I convinced myself like oh this is can I do and like the one time I went to McDonald's I accidentally got a Big Mac like by mistake like you know I ordered wrong yeah can I do what I didn't want what's sort of a merchandise spotlight was there an all merchandise there wasn't uh but but quick uh got a lot of uh attention notoriety

here in the states because for one of the star wars movies they did promotion where they did a dark side burger where the bun was black. It went viral. Yeah, I do vaguely remember this. Yes. They weren't the first place to do the black burger. I feel like Japan has a lot of black burgers. I think most burger had a red burger and a black burger. Dark Vador Burger. They did the Vader Burger.

Dark Vador. Jedi Burger. I think it also made people poop weird. I could see that. I think there was a running meme about the people who had some funky poops uh so did they discontinue the black uh black one burger yeah they did it was a limited promotion but i think they discontinued it pretty hard uh anyway quick was good that's all i'm saying it's good chain i like that what's the best thing to get at a quick just i just would get burgers i can't remember anymore it's i lived in france in 2008 it's a long time ago now quick um so the the son lives with his girlfriend yeah who is a nightmare a nightmare she's a pain in the ass yeah right

she also well so so there are some deaths and births that happen in this movie right i think she's still just i think she's or has she had the baby by the time of the christmas party she's had she's had the baby that is an early end a wild scene it's a wild scene uh where uh she's in the hospital she has like a placental abruption or something so she's like in pain yeah It's all very there's that really funny shot of her being like wheeled by where she's like, ah,

I'm hurting so much. And then Isabella is like, I'm gonna go get some coffee. Yeah. So uninterested. So overdramatic. Well, she's already talked about

her labor with her son and how it was like the worst thing in the world. And she's basically like motherhood is pain. Yeah. Yeah. It's all bad um and then the baby is born and uh does not look super white no no i believe the first line when he is revealed is she's like we're gonna need a dna test and and it should be said also that the the's other friend is there. Right. Who is a black man. Right.

Yes. And seems a little bemused by the whole situation. Yes. But I think the most amazing thing is that Vincent, or yeah, Vincent is just like immediately takes, like in such complete like denial of the whole thing. That's what I find interesting because Huppert is going into this being like... He does not acknowledge it. Huppert doesn't like the girlfriend

and feels like, oh fuck, my son got roped into now he's going to have to spend the rest of his life with this woman just because he was an idiot and he knocked her up. And also she's like paying for their new apartment and there's this scene where they're moving into the apartment and the girlfriend's being a pain about the apartment even though it's like... Ungrateful. Right, Huppert's paying for the whole damn thing

so then when Au Pair sees the baby and is like it's not even my son so like now I feel like we're being conned like I'm paying to house a woman yeah who has cucked my son

he doesn't he didn't really need to be cucked I think he cucked the son I think the the scene i mentioned it to you i think off mic that later where he's freaking out and he's like my son my son yeah and she's like uh he's not your son and he's like my son and she's like all right he's your son it's so funny yeah where like that's her whole relationship with that kid like he is

an idiot and now he's like bought into this like really like life altering lie. He's had to like put a bubble around his whole brain. And he's doing less of the heavy lifting as a parent. Right. And rather than sit him down and be like, you have to think about the situation. You're probably not the father of this child. She's just like, all right. So passionate about it.

You're his father, I guess. Yeah. Uh, um, so wait, so at, so then,

so she has the baby. Oh, and then we also find out the, the, the wild detail that, uh, that when she and Anna went into labor at the same time. Yes.

At the same hospital. Anna had a stillbirth and then breastfed, uh, Patrick or Vincent rather yeah and uh and so like she's afraid that like anna has a like stronger bond with vincent than she does which doesn't come up too much but i feel like is one of the another one of these like interesting ties with this group of people where it's just like another complication. Yeah. They're all sort of knotted up together. Yeah.

And of course, yeah. Right. She's having an affair with her best friend, with Anna's husband. There's a scene where she and Anna get in bed together and they sort of like laugh, like where they're like,

ah, remember when we tried to, we tried it once, we couldn't stop laughing. And they give each other five comedy points. But then there's, right, there's also this obsession with, like, is it this? Is this the why this? Yeah, right.

Is it the father? Is it the breastfeeding? You know, like, can we explain this just by looking into, like, the past? Yeah. And also, like, I mean, the thing with anna when they're like you know remembering making out trying to make out or trying to have sex or whatever like that is another thing where it's like that could totally be some schlocky beat in a movie like this or it's like she's actually a lesbian it's like it's not even that she's not like she's close to the idea she's like no it's

like you know they're they like men and it's it then that's almost worse and more complicated they're like yes right yeah and also she just has a very peculiar relationship with intimacy emotional intimacy and uh so maybe that was attractive to her about her friend about anna where it's like well could that yeah be a way to find like a connection with someone we also yeah there's also the scene where her husband you know

is like why'd you like or she's like you never should have left or we never should have broken up and he was like you left me

and she says you hit me and he's like well I regret that and then like that's that you know like that's a self contained

little scene but then the son gets physical with her as well during the scene at the house the son gets physical with his wife. Right, right, right.

Or with his girlfriend. Yes, sorry. Yeah, that's right. That's later. It's all like half heard. Like the son quits his job because like his car's in the shop. He's just an idiot. He's an idiot.

He's like, well, if you ride the metro, it's unhealthy. It takes an hour. The air quality. Oh my God. What a. He's like, well, if you ride the metro, it's unhealthy. The air quality. Oh, my God. What a fucking... And this is the thing. Every time she sees her son, she's like, I want to be on your side, but you're so bad. Oh, God.

But what you're saying, I mean, I feel like it speaks to the complexity of this character and this characterization that they're getting at in this movie where like this movie presents a lot of what another movie would choose to frame as a quote-unquote easy answer yeah well here's the rosetta stone to figure her out yeah it's this she's actually secretly this this is the moment that changed her and it's like show you no she's the she's the entirety of her experiences and all of these things that's the reason she's such a complex contradictory person well to get to well so do you want is there something else you wanted to say about the

christmas party though you did bring up the christmas it ends well her mom uh announces that she's getting married to the boy and then about two minutes later her mom falls over with a heart attack a stroke stroke, I believe. She announces this. She also says, go see your father. And Isabella O'Pear's like, fuck no. And then she has a stroke. She walks off screen and then there's a clatter.

And immediately, she's like, is this a joke? The line is like, seriously? And everybody's like, how could you say that? Right, and even with her doctor, where her doctor is like, she may never wake up again. She's had a traumatic brain event. She's like, is there any possibility she's faking?

Could it just be fake, though? Have you explored that possibility? Is she manipulating you right now? Yeah, it's amazing. It is good, like, where her mother dies, and and to upers like it's like this this is this is her like her lousiest uh move yet she's just trying to get at me and then she finally agrees to go see her father and he kills himself before she can get to him like basically she she intuits that or like he couldn't face her right it was like right after that he got the notification

that she was going to be coming by that he hung himself and then she's like I killed you by coming here like over his corpse it's yeah it's wild stuff

and then also some real wild stuff here in this wild wild wild stuff Melissa Villasenor

I was doing every time you do that I'm going to say her name Johnny Carson I was trying to do Johnny Carson oh you were doing Johnny Carson

but I was doing Owen Wilson okay this is Johnny Carson as Lightning McQueen I'm going to say her name. Johnny Carson. I was trying to do Johnny Carson. Oh, you were doing Johnny Carson, but I was doing Owen Wilson. Okay, this is Johnny Carson as Lightning McQueen. I was going to say it sounded like Goldblum. Why don't you stuff this Mater in a tow truck? You guys read about this? Mater the tow truck? Wow.

I'm glad we went from Elle to Cars. This is the episode that's going to do it. I think we're going to win. I'm Johnny Goldblum Wilson. We're going to win the Oscar for this one. This is it. This is it? Best picture. This is're going to win the Oscar for this one. This is it. This is it? Best picture.

This is the one they'll remember us for. Yes. This is the one they'll remember us for. Yeah. Don't you think so? Yeah. Ben is truly furiously typing away an iPhone note. He is writing his letter of resignation as we speak.

From the United States of America. To whom it may concern. It's moving. I, Ben Hosley. Attention. Attention, film geeks, cinemaphiles, lovers of great conversations, you know, nerds.

Sure. Yeah. I doubt anyone has left the room because if you're listening to this show, you fall into all those boxes. Well, guess what? Chuck Bryan of the Stuff You Should Know podcast has a new show called Movie Crush.

That's some stuff you should know. Yeah. Right there. He sits down with your favorite people to talk about their favorite movies. Sure. The likes of, I don't know, Tig Notaro,

John Hodgman, Kevin Pollack, Tony Shalhoub, comedian Kyle Kinane, Jeopardy's Ken Jennings, podcaster Roman Mars, and more. Wow, you really went high at the end there. I want to show my range. Well, they talk about movies like Cockroach Orange, Jaws, Groundhog Day, and The Avengers, deep dives into some of the best films ever made

with the people who love them the most. And you'll laugh and you'll cry and you'll gain serious insights into what makes a movie an all-time favorite. So it sounds like an actual good movie podcast, unlike ours. Right. I mean, we have never made anyone cry for good reasons. Yeah.

Well, sometimes the reasons that you laugh and cry may surprise you. Yeah. So, you know what? Here's my advice. You want a little advice from me? Sure. Check out Movie Crush.

Anywhere you get your podcasts yeah no so but no what is also happening is she reveals her attacker comes to her again she stabs him

through the hand with a pair of scissors and rips his ski mask off and it is Patrick her hot sexy Lauren Lafitte neighbor

yeah the twist yeah and after that i feel like he just runs off she she runs off yeah and then i think this is the thing that like throws people is that the next day that they're outside or she's taking out the trash or whatever she sees him outside and just sort of stares him down and doesn't do anything about it. And then later she's, I think, Then she's in a car accident.

She's in a car accident. I think that's when she's coming back from prison. It's so crazy. You forget she's in a car accident. She's in a car accident. I remember when I was watching the car accident, I was like, seriously? A fucking car accident now? A reporter calls her with like, Oh, your father is dead. I don't know. And is still on the phone after she's like, seriously? A fucking car accident now? So yeah, a reporter calls her with like, oh, your father is dead.

Oh no. And is still on the phone after she's like wedged in between a tree. In between a tree. She's like, how are you feeling? Like guilty, sad. While like blood is coming out of her head and whatever. And she calls everyone and no one answers

because her whole family network are a bunch of idiots anyway. So she calls Patrick and he shows up. Now, I feel like there are probably still about 10 other people that we haven't met yet

in the movie that she could have called besides Patrick, but I feel like... Like AAA? Right, yeah, yeah. Ghostbusters? But still, I mean,

I feel like that's when... I feel like that's when, I feel like that's a very conscious choice at that point. I'm sure that, you know, obviously she would rather have had a friend there, but like at that point, I feel like the gears start turning for her and then there starts to be this like, maybe she doesn't even consciously know what it is at that point,

but like there is some sort of like, can I flip the script on this? Sure. Right. Right. Because their sex sort of walks this line where well i mean there's that how many times do they have sex because there's a scene in the basement where that's after she they are like she go home and he bandages her up yeah remember that and then and then it feels like something's gonna happen just like consensually between the two of them. But then he's like, I can't do it like this.

Right, he leaves. Yeah. Because he can only get it up if he's raping a lady. Right. And so in the basement when they're doing more of like a role play, then she gives her consent. He's like, no, it doesn't work like that. Yeah. You're fucked up.

Yeah. And all she does is say, do it. Right. Yeah. Which I remember really clearly from the first time I saw it, which was just like that yeah and all she does is say do it right which I remember really clearly from the first time I saw it

which was just like that those two words were what like killed it for him which was just it felt like her having agency

over the situation yeah right it is this is a funny mirror to Flesh and Blood I was gonna say this is him successfully

pulling off what he tried to do in Flesh and Blood yeah in Flesh and Blood it doesn't it doesn't work nearly as well it overreaches greatly. Also, it's set in medieval times.

So it just like, our relationships to how characters think is just totally different. But it is, yeah. I mean, it becomes a very, very complicated thing where you're watching it going like, is this part of some longer game she's playing? Has she genuinely fallen for him?

Like, what? It's very hard to read yeah um and you know it's a long movie it's been going on for a while so you're like we gotta be in the back like you know right like 20 minutes of this film where the fuck is he going like where is this gonna land ultimately yeah and not knowing where's going to land that first time is like what makes it so totally engrossing, I think. Yes. The first time you're watching this, it is like a knife edge. Yeah. Yeah.

And because after, like the last big set piece is the big launch party at the office. Right. Yeah. Like we see the video game and it's like better, I guess. It seems the same to me. And they're all like oh so good um but like at the big party is where like she's just like you know what i don't like any of these people i'm isabelle huper it's time to like settle some scores well

she tells tells anna that she's cheating on her husband um that actually is the only thing i think that is clumsily resolved in this movie where with the like later where anna's like why'd you do it and she's like and anna's like well it was shabby which is a great french show that was shabby of you and she's like and then they like walk off aren't i don't know my mom fucking lost it at that she was like that's the most accurate thing I've ever seen. All right. Technically, the end of the movie,

she's going to move in with Anna, right? They're going to be friend-wise. Just like every woman's actual fantasy, I think. Not what they've gone through, but the way they're speaking of it. She was like, that is so on point. For the wanting to seem just kind of like well you know it is what it is a shabby yeah not a good look yeah right n-a-g-l yeah um yeah but uh so she tells she tells anna there and then she i can't remember if she is a part of getting um vincent really drunk because he does get very drunk right

again at the party right well yeah and we we did skip over that scene where vincent like puts his hand on his girlfriend's throat yes um and because his mother shuts him down yeah you know tries to at least yeah but go on sorry what he's kind of generally getting sloppy at this point i mean i think the fact that she's welcoming him into her life yeah totally starts breaking his brain right yeah oh you mean you mean patrick yes sorry sorry yes yeah no he doesn't he is it feels like they're both equally wary of each other which is also what it's not, at this point, I would say, even though he is still obviously the predator in this relationship, he doesn't really know what he's being predatory of at this point anymore. Which is the first move of hers that destabilizes him. And he's not in control anymore, which terrifies me. Wait, what did you want to say?

Did you want to say something about the son? Because I feel like you mentioned earlier you like how the son's relationship with the girlfriend is resolved. So I couldn't remember if this was like a part of her doing or just like him getting drunk on his own. But he does get wasted at the party. And then when they go back to the house and she knows that Patrick's going to come in and attack her again. He's like, you know, coming in right after her. She knows that. She sets it all up so that,

I'm sorry, my throat is giving out right now. I told you I was getting sick. So, um, when she, when he is attacking her, Vincent could come in and save the day.

And, you know, maybe her pulling the strings has caused him to think like, oh, maybe I, maybe I'm not a piece of shit and maybe I should start acting like not a piece of shit. It feels like such a super, it feels like a Cersei Lannister move or something.

It just feels like such a totally indirect piece of action to get men to be better around you or be what you need them to be uh which i i think is fascinating in this and but i mean a lot of people that that ending of him killing patrick a lot of people are like well why doesn't she get to kill her own rapist why doesn't she have the bloody revenge that she's been like imagining and daydreaming about she does have this one scene where she imagines killing yeah and um I mean, I think we get to see that in that. We know that she's, I think, probably 100% capable of killing him.

But I feel like that isn't, she's been living in a life that's haunted by violence her entire life. And why would she want to? It's not necessarily right what she was looking for. Yeah. No. It's more of like an idea that floats into her head. Yeah. And it's a direct mirror of her relationship to her father's crimes.

Yeah. Because there's that whole question of like, was he influenced by her? Did she help him? Yeah. You know? So she sort of passed the buck onto her son, essentially. Kind of, right. Like she's like sent the curse through the bloodline but i would say that probably like stabbing his mother's rapist

and saving her is probably a little less on the scale than like murdering a village you feel like he's gonna come out of it looking better he smashes patrick over the head a bunch and he dies just that's like the end of the movie wait did you touch upon though the car ride back from the party when he escorts her oh right right yeah because there's a really important moment there which is she basically points out the nature of their relationship and she uses a very interesting word to describe that what did she twisted i knew that the word twisted was going to come up in this podcast I forgot about that he's marking the time thank you pal

why don't we say twisted in French oh damn it look it up I also really like tortue da do

tortue tortue tortue like a turtle yeah like the island of Tortuga from the parts of Caribbean a turtle? Yeah. Like the island of Furtuga from the Pirates of the Caribbean? A turtle is tortue.

Oh. Very close. I like the final scene with her and now his widow. Oh, wait. See, this is the part that I kind of skimmed through when I was rewatching this last time. There's the final scene where you see she's moving out of their house across the street. Now she's like a widow and a single mother with this baby. And she kind of tips her hand to like knowing that her husband had these things that he couldn't repress. Yeah.

That she tried her hardest to like make a normal life for him. But kind of knew that he was a liability at some point yeah yeah yeah i yeah i remember that now i remember feeling yeah like the wife was aware of something but not necessarily aware of what was going on between uh them at the time not like complicit but aware that her husband had monstrous tendencies. Yeah. And that, probably, it was, he was gonna hide out at some point.

He was never, or Jekyll out. He was gonna Jekyll out. Jekyll out. Hide. Jekyll's the bad one. Jekyll's, no,

Jekyll's the good one. She married Jekyll. Yeah. Knew he was gonna hide out. Isn't he a, wait, oh, he's not a doctor,

he's a banker. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Jekyll. And, Hyde Esquire. Yep. Hyde Esquire. he uh wait oh he's he's not a doctor he's a banker yeah um yeah mr jackal and hide esquire yep hide esquire um and then ends with them uh her and her gal pal arm and arm yeah i do think that that is every woman's actual fantasy um to live with your best friend in a partnership, a domestic partnership. Just going to put that out there.

Just put it out there. Ben? Ben? What's up? Is your take, have you finished copy editing? Yeah, I have. All right, here,

let me bring it up for you guys. Ladies and gentlemen, the poet laureate, our finest film critic, a close personal friend of Dan Lewis, here is Ben hosley on paul verhoeven's l uh so the portrayal of disillusionment through the character of michelle really resonates with me wow this is a laureate shit right here i feel a kindred spirit with her

character and i surmise this is related to her being a loner uh from her sense of humor to her manipulative nature she relates the world as me against it but whereas Verhoeven's previous films are these satirical send ups of story conventions there's something about the black humor and unconventional nature that causes me to ultimately

believe the tone or mood can best be described as punk rock that was that was phenomenal thanks that was phenomenal i think people feel like we use our finest film critic facetiously but it's because once a year you do that every once in a while yeah yes um that made me want to ask a question of you guys. Of you guys. Okay. Do you feel like Michelle is the closest Verhoeven proxy that we've gotten so far?

To himself? Yes. I'm thinking through his other protagonists. I believe so. Certainly. Well, when you're thinking of the Hollywood movies, I would agree. Yeah, the Hollywood movies, I think, almost because i i haven't seen all his dutch films perhaps there's you know more to that i mean i know i i think she's i think this movie is him

imagining himself as a woman how he would have existed in the world as a woman and how differently he would have been viewed and and the blasé-ness to like sexual violence and, you know, coming at it from such a completely different angle because of something in your childhood, I think is also, yeah. The desensitization. Yeah.

Can I say something, Ben? Yeah. When you said in your essay that it becomes a story of me against it, what are you, home again? With Reese Witherspoon, opened against It at the box office.

That's a great segue into... What Are You? It's played the box office game. Yeah. What do you... Do you think so too, Emily? Home Again?

You posed the question. Open number two behind It? Yeah, I think... I mean, I was wondering if anything else had come up against your guys' awareness. I mean, honestly,

I think Black Book is indulging a fantasy of his. We didn't just, you know, do an episode on that movie, but like in terms of like his fascination. I feel like that's his only

other post-Hollywood picture that I've seen. He's only done two. Wait, no, isn't there another one? There's one called Trick that was part of like a film class.

It's like a bunch of short films put together. That thing doesn't really count. It's more of an experiment than it is. I don't think he considers it like a full proper Verhoeven film. Right. I mean, yeah, like I don't, count. It's more of an experiment than it is. I don't think he considers it like a full proper. Verhoeven film.

Right. Right. I mean, yeah. Like, I don't. Yeah. He's not identifying with Johnny Rico in the same way. Right. No.

I think this is weirdly his most personal movie in terms of his relationship to the main character. Also, we've talked about his Hollywood years where he was so intent on like studying like american genre movies and cracking the code exactly finding the ways that he could smuggle ideas onto the big yeah screen uh without having a flesh and blood happen to him where basically he would give them the movie and they'd be like ew and he'd be like no no you don't he's not French no no no he's a gold member that's ah I love gold

he eats his own skin yeah um I think he mostly is interested in functioning as a cultural

critic both of the cultures and the work that those cultures produce and that doesn't leave a lot of space to like put yourself into the character.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what makes them good and stand out. I feel like too, is that I feel like a lot of other filmmakers have more of a priority of putting themselves or seeing themselves in their movies. Right.

And he, that's like a lesser priority. In a way that can become oftentimes solipsistic as their careers go on it's like every movie it's the character come the same perspective but i think that also speaks to he uh entrusted upair more than he certainly has with any of his actors since rutger howard rutger howard was a very different type of performer who wasn't going to be as vulnerable on screen. I didn't know that thing about him

not giving her any direction, but that's, I mean, that reflects well on both of them, I think. Yeah, I think it reflects super well on him. Because it's like, this conversation... Yeah, you don't know how to direct this lady on how to...

I'd be fucking afraid of directing her in anything. Oh, 100%. But also... But like, any woman, though, I feel like to be like, no, that doesn't quite read right in how you expressed your fear or, you know, annoyance or whatever, you know, like. And also as we're getting into like this ongoing cultural conversation of like who gets to tell what stories. It's like I think any person can direct any movie if you admit what you don't know and surround yourself with the people and give them the chance to offer offer them authorship in those areas you know because like a director

can just be a conductor yeah it doesn't have to be the auteur and the author of everything yeah you can go like let me bring the right people who have the voices yeah and put them all in the same pot uh i think it speaks very highly to him and he got her an Oscar nomination. Yeah, the first Oscar nomination he's gotten for an actor. Her first nomination at decades of illustrious work.

She's been in Hollywood movies. I mean, not a lot. You like Starship Troopers though? You just watch Starship Troopers. I love Starship Troopers. I just watched it for the first time in a very long time uh yeah a week ago i was just like yeah and then that is like i feel like maybe the most classic example of him making a film as a critic um because it is i mean what

what other movie is like an adaptation in that way like what other movie at adapts against its source material sure like that and i like i would die to see a movie like that today i know from anything like you're like man if someone could make like one of the 50 shades of gray movies like that you know yeah or make like a harry potter movie like that or like whatever it is yeah i mean i feel like this 50ades movies might be a bad example because I feel like, I don't know. I feel like the source material was never really taken seriously to begin with. to just not even make a joke of it, but expose it to be what it actually is, what you believe it is.

You know what actually feels like a closer analog? When they were picking a director for the last two Twilight movies, and they went with Bill Condon, but the other two people they met with were, do you remember this? No. Gus Van Sant and Sofia Coppola.

What? And both of them came in and were like, if you actually are offering me, this is what I do. And they were like, yeah, too weird. Yeah. And both of them have spoken to their pitches and were like, look, I would have done it. I like Kristen Stewart a lot. If I could have done it through my prism. Yeah.

Like there's interesting stuff there to talk about. Yeah. But they were like like we can't do something that isn't literally what the fans yeah view the text as being oh man i mean if you can imagine how people would react right like somebody did that with twilight yeah but twilight especially those last two movies are like those are ripe for that yeah like those are some insanely fucked up sexually, like fucked up attitudes towards sexuality and

what it is to be a teenager. I think the last one is good. I think the last one is the one where Condon gets closer than anyone else to find a way to... It's the one with the big fight that turns out to be not a real fight. But it's also got a lot of really weird comedy in it. Can we play the box office yes

please uh this movie opened at number let me even find it 43 okay on two screens on november 11th 2016 does that count how do you yeah with a movie like l like there's no real yeah amount of screens in America was 209 in January. Essentially, if it never goes over 1,000, we do the literal opening weekend. And if it went that wide later, we do that weekend. It basically went wide after the Oscar nominations. Like, quote, unquote, wide. It added 170 theaters. Right.

And then immediately shrunk back down the next week. Too wide, too wide. Sorry, sorry, everybody. And then it did-eyed. It did it again in February. My guess is after the ceremony. Then it immediately shrunk back down again. What was the final total domestically? $2.3 million. That's about right.

I believe it made about $15 million worldwide. Which was more than its budget. Number one at the box office is a Marvel movie. Doctor Strange Doctor Strange L'étrange L'étrange L'étrange qu'est-ce que c'est

parallel universe bonjour le jour c'est strange so sorry Mike yeah Doctor Strange I think that movie's fine I do too I actually kind of weirdly

like that movie more with time I don't mind the Marvel movies that are just doing their own thing that movie is garbage I'm sorry you don't like the Marvel movies I don't like the Marvel movies

but and I like the visual thing that everybody else likes about those but you know what I also like have the memory of that being the last movie I saw in the theaters before the election

so yes that's accurate and I think I saw in the theaters before the election. Sure. Yes. That's accurate. And I think I spent the last day before the election writing my piece about it. Thinking about Doc Strange. So that's exactly where my head was. Sure. And then, you know, yeah.

I think it's a deeply flawed movie. I think it has some fundamental story problems. And I think they try way too hard to make Bandit Cumberbatch Downey Jr. Like they should just not even try to give him quippy one-liners. That's not what you

hire him to do. But the visuals He does quippy one-liners. He's fine. I think he's pretty good. He could do Sherlock. He's doing Sherlock. He's doing the

I'm smarter than you guy. He's also trying to be like a rich asshole though and I think those two things do not mesh well. You can't be a quirkster and be that. I agree with that.

Well because the origin of Doctor Strange is so silly where it's like he's a doctor he's so rich but also he hurts his hands I cannot believe you guys and your fucking little baby books and how much money they fucking make because this movie was dumb as hell I'm sorry

it is coming for us hey man the early Doctor Strange that's like foundational psychedelic literature of the 60s, man. That stuff is so good. The Jack Kirby shit. It's so good. Foundational? Yes.

Absolutely. Back me up. Yes. Agreed. Doctor Strange was a huge influence, like the way it was drawn. I'll say this. If those are baby books, then slap a diaper on me. All right.

I'm out. Gaga. All right. I'm pulling out. I'm pulling out. I'm pulling out of this. Give me my Kobos. Pull it out of this right now. Give me my Kobos. Doctor Strange. me all right i'm out doctor strange strange tales 1963 fucking rules okay that stuff is crazy um the movie is fine

yeah uh number two is an animated also also by the way if any of our blankies attack emily for calling them baby books we're literally gonna murder you we'll go L on your ass. They are dumb baby books.

If you tweeted Emily, I'm going ax shopping. That's all I'm promising you. She's fine. Emily's hardcore. Number two is an animated film written and directed by Richard Lawson. Trolls.

His trolls. Oh, his trolls. His trolls. Shout out to Richard Lawson's trolls. Shout out to Rylaw's trolls. In its second weekend, it's made $93 million. His trolls dids. His Trolls. Shout out to Richard Lawson's Trolls. Shout out to Rylaw's Trolls. In its second weekend, it's made $93 million. His Trolls did well. His Trolls did okay.

I think his Trolls got greenlit for a sequel. I don't know. It made $153 on a $125 million budget, which is a lot of money for Richard Lawson. A lot of merchandising. He was a first-time filmmaker. A lot of merchandising. I know. That movie is like cars.

And you couldn't stop the feeling. You can't stop the feeling. I was about to say that. We tried very hard and we couldn't. We tried in vain. That movie is like cars. You can't stop the feeling. I was about to say that. We tried very hard and we couldn't. We tried in vain. We lost a great

many men that day. Number three is I believe and I forgot that this movie just went wide. Number three is what I'm pretty sure was Emily's number one

film of the year. For 2016. 2016. 2016. Emily's number one film of the year. For 2016. 2016. 2016. Emily's number one film of the year. Do you think you know what it is? I think I know. I'll give you another hint.

If it is what I think it is, also a terrible movie to see at the Alamo Drafthouse. Also a terrible movie to see at the Alamo. I think this is. I don't know. Drafthouse. It just went wide. It had been limited? No, it opened wide.

I forgot that it opened wide. You thought it had planned planned it was like an Oscar contend you know got a bunch of Oscar nominations wait it's not what you think it is it's not

never mind no did it win any I don't think it did because that movie came out the next week maybe it wasn't your number one then

but it won sound editing great sound is it a music based film try to get things that win sound awards no it is about a language what emily doesn't even know what this is no okay so i know what it is now but that i don't i feel like that wait what weekend was this again november 11th 2016 oh. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I know what it is. Why am I blanking on this?

Should this be obvious? Best Picture nominee? It was a best... Yeah, not a great movie to see at the Alamo, in my opinion. No, it's a terrible movie to see at the Alamo. When you said that, I was like, yeah, it lines up. Oh, Arrival? Yeah, of course. Of course. Of course. I believe I did see it at the Alamo. I saw it at least three times. Yeah. Great film. Am I correct that it was your number one of 2016?

It was my number one of 2016. Okay, great film. In a great film, in a great year, 2016 was a better movie year than 2017. I agree. Just putting that out there. I don't know if I agree with that. I like 2017.

I just feel like it was more of a consensus year where everyone kind of agreed on the same big movies. You mean 2017? 2017. Really? Because I feel like 2017 has got a lot of like B pluses and A minuses. I know but I just feel like a lot of people basically liked

like Lady Bird Call Me By Your Name, The Florida Project and like then maybe Dunkirk. That's a lot of consensus. Like a lot of people had those four movies in their top two. Yeah. And like that's not usually how this. And then maybe Phantom Threat as well.

Right. Which is a later bloomer. I need to see that again. I think 2017 was an awesome year. It's a good year. I'm not saying it's a bad year. But when I think of the movies that came out in 2016. 16 felt really strong.

I want to look at my 16. Yeah. It was very. Moonlight Arrival. Handmaiden. I mean 2016 had Moonlight. Elle. That's good. was very Moonlight, Arrival, Handmaiden I mean 2016 had Moonlight L that's good

it had Moonlight it had yeah Handmaiden it had L it had Arrival it had fucking Green Room it had The Witch it had The Love Witch

it had yeah 20th Century Women right Sully Sully there we go. 2016 was a better year.

And number four is a comedy, a Christmas comedy coming out in November. Big family comedy. Does Santa Claus appear in the cast? I don't think so. No Santa Claus. So it's a Christmas. Is it a, fuck. What's it called? Not almost Christmas. It's almost Christmas. it's a Christmas. Is it a, fuck. What's it called?

Not Almost Christmas. It's Almost Christmas. It's Almost Christmas. Which I never saw. I didn't either. Danny Glover's in it? It's called It's Almost Christmas? It's called Almost Christmas.

Romany Malco? Yeah. Monique? It's got like 45 people above the title. Yeah. Gabrielle Union, J.B. Smoove, Kimberly Elise,

Omar Epps. It's got a stacked cast, actually. I'm actually surprised I've never seen that. I like Christmas movies. It's got like John Michael Higgins is like, you know,

the tightwad. Oh, boy. Bad Zoo Boy himself. Bad Zoo Boy. The original Bad Zoo Boy. And the number five is a war film. Not a war horse film.

No. There weren't a lot of horses in that I can remember you know the beginning of this movie is kind of war horsey actually yeah it's a war film

it's a really intense movie it's a really intense movie also a best picture nominee it's incredible how much my brain just melts away I just have no idea this was a year ago

I also here's another thing I felt watching this movie knowing that like I saw it for the first time a year ago. I also, here's another thing I felt watching this movie, knowing that like I saw it for the first time a year ago. This last year has been so fucking long just because the amount of shit. Yeah. You know?

There's a lot of stuff that like takes up occupation in your brain where other stuff that you'd like to remember perhaps more fondly and with more detail and specificity has been pushed out of the way just by, you know. We're recording this in january and it's like we're talking a movie that came out like 13 14 months ago and it feels like five years ago yeah um it's a war film so i probably didn't like it very much right i don't even know if you saw this film remember what war oh it's hexa rich oh emil gibson which you told me not to see because i wouldn't like it i did yeah i saw it i didn't like it. I did. Yeah, I saw it. I didn't like it very much. Did you see it in the theater?

No, I watched it on a screener. Terrible movie to watch on a screener. Terrible film to watch on a screener. I take my responsibilities as a SAG voter very seriously. Fair. NDG was nominated. Yeah.

All right. Didn't vote for him. So that was number one? That was number five. Arrival was number one. No, no, no. Doctor Strange, Trolls. Arrival opens number three at No, no, no. Doctor Strange, Trolls. Arrival opens number three at 24 million.

Almost Christmas opens number four at 15. And then number five is Hacksaw Ridge, which was not nearly as big a hit. Arrival is kind of Ben's... Got a remote. Got it. Yeah, okay. Okay, Ben.

Okay, cool. Got it. When Ben wants the podcast to end, he turns off a TV which has a picture of us on it all right

he wants it over so you don't think what is this click you don't want to talk

about all right well that's it that's it thank you so much for listening

thank you Paul Verhoeven for making all these lovely movies do we want to do Verhoeven

rankings I've got my rankings I've got my rankings of the movies we discussed. So not covering the things.

Yeah, yeah. I want to hear your rankings. Okay, ready? Sure, you go first. Yeah. Number one, Robert Cobb. Yeah, you like that one.

Number two, Starship Troopers. Number three, Elle. Number four, Total Recall then Basic Instinct then Showgirls Flesh and Blood

Hollow Man in last place but you like everything about Hollow Man basically I like Hollow Man yeah right right but Hollow Man's more of a we'd be lucky

if most filmmakers least interesting films were Hollow Man for sure yeah that's my ranking mine would be number one Starship Troopers Hollow Man's more of a C+. We'd be lucky if most filmmakers' least interesting films were Hollow Man. For sure. Yeah. That's my ranking. Mine would be number one, Starship Troopers with a bullet, with a bug.

Yeah. Number two, Robocop. Because I'll say number one for me, Robocop with a bullet, but the bullet comes out of a gun that was stored in my leg. Okay. Number two, Robocop. Number three, Elle. I think. Number four, Total Recall. Number five, Showgirls. You guys are so similar. I know. Yeah. Well, you know, Elle. I think number four, Total Recall.

Number five, Showgirls. You guys are so similar. I know. Yeah, well, you know, it's only eight movies. Number six, Basic Instinct. Number seven, Flesh and Blood. Number eight, Hollow Man. I'm not sure with Total Recall and Elle.

Those are close. They're entirely different movies. Elle's definitely my three. It's more about Total Recall and Basic Instinct. But I think I just love the fucking effects and Total Recall so much oh Total Recall rules yeah Showgirls rules

Basic Instinct's a movie I more admire than love I love Showgirls more than I love Basic Instinct how do you feel Emily um I

I think I I I what's your fave what's my fave of those eight Starship well Starship

I haven't rewatched as much. I had just seen it like a while ago and then I watched it again most recently and was completely like enamored of it. But I've definitely

rewatched RoboCop more and I feel like RoboCop would probably be at my top. And then probably, and then, yeah, probably, I think what I would do is like Total Recall wouldn't be up there as much for me.

I think it would go. Do not. I'm totally making this up. Nope, off the dome. Okay, so it would be Robocop, Starship Troopers, Elle. I think it would be Basic Instinct and then Showgirls and then Total Recall. And I haven't seen Hollow Man, so I don't know. Yeah.

I mean, have you seen Flesh and Blood? No, I haven't seen that either. I haven't seen the... No, I want to watch it, though. It's on Amazon. I think it's worth watching. Ben's number one Verhoeven, of course, is Spanglish, Ben's new favorite movie,

because here we are announcing our next miniseries. Yes. Crack of the Bat. And it's gone. And it's up and out of here. Ladies and gentlemen. Next up. We are covering the films of James L. Brooks. That's right.

Old Canyon Jim himself. In a miniseries that is of course titled. Don't you say that. Don't you do it. As pot as it casts. It's called podcast news. Of course it's called podcast news. And get ready for us to fight about it every episode.

Of course it's podcast news. Well. Come on. It's podcast news as has been fully decided upon. Emily, you say of course, and to that I ask, how do you know? Okay. All right. It's podcast news, guys.

And yes, get ready for that. This explains a tweet that you responded to a tweet of mine recently with so if anybody wants to dig back in the twitter archives to january 8th or so a simpler time um yeah what did i say i can't remember because i just did a random tweet about how much i liked the band broadcast oh yeah and then you respond what about broadcast news and now it all makes sense broadcast news yeah what news. What about that one? You hear about that one? David, let's address the elephant in the room. There's an elephant.

Ben, everyone's been getting in today. Hey, hey, hey. No bits. No bits. Press minutes. Okay? Sorry. This is a little bit of an anniversary.

That's actually, that's exciting. That's true. 150th episode right here. Yeah. Okay? You know how for our 100th episode we did blank check the movie and for our 150th episode

we did L but next week we got kind of like a bonus present that is true as a reward to our listeners and also just

because the scheduling lined up really nicely we have a special episode next week so you know we've done these Ben's choices in the past

and we thought we'd hand someone else the check to pick a movie done some fam choices right we got a man we both are big fans of a comedian an actor a writer a movie podcaster in his own right who I dare say I've been like listening to for 10 years probably I've been seeing him I remember going to see him at UCB when I was 13 years old. Helped invent this GD medium of ours? This GD medium. The man.

How did this get? Mater himself. Mater? Mater. Wow. Paul Scheer. Paul Scheer. Genuinely exciting.

Paul Scheer likes our show, wanted to be on it, did an episode with us. And it's his choice, and he picked the movie Running Scared. That's right. Gregory Hines. And Billy Crystal. Cops. Bill Crystal. In Chicago?

Yes, sir. In the 80s? Yes. There's a chase scene on the L? And a 15-minute vacation montage. Billy Crystal's hot. Billy Crystal's really hot. Billy Crystal is smoking.

He's smoking hot in that movie, though. And he's also, I think, probably smoking a cigarette or two. I can't remember. It was the 80s. But tune in for that. Running Scared next week. That's right. Watch Running Scared, which, by the way, completely rules.

Yeah, it rules. We had a blast. Yeah, it rocks and rolls. Then listen to that episode. But. Before we get to our James L. Brooks miniseries. That's right. But, you know, we're giving you a gift.

We're giving you this bonus Paul Scheer episode. Yes. You could repay the favor. $150, here's all I want, you know, to commemorate this milestone.

Okay. I want to be number one within our subsection, which is TV slash film. Yeah. I'd like to be number one. I'd like to topple all those recap shows

for one week. Take that. Eight Westworld podcasts. Right. Designated Podvivor. A weird amount of podcasts about billions. Right. Come on.

Give us one week where we get to take on big billions. Does Designated Survivor have a few? That was the joke I was making. I know. I was finishing your joke. Probably everything does other than than the tic. Yeah, we want to be... Do you want to do a tic podcast?

No, I don't want to watch the episodes. I hate my face. I really enjoyed them, actually. Yeah, they're good. I just am self-conscious. So, please, do me a kindness. And me. And Ben.

Yes, please. Yes, please. For 150, we want to be number one. How can you make that happen? One, recommend the show to some people. Sure. Word of mouth. Try to get one person into Blank Check this week.

Okay? Uh-huh. Number two, maybe you've heard me mention this before, rate, review, subscribe. But we always say that, and we appreciate that people have. Sometimes it just sounds like lip service. I know it's an ask, but all you got to do is go to iTunes, give us a rating. Yeah. Five stars preferred.

Yeah. We love five stars. And if you give a zero, you're a Sith Lord and you can't listen to the show. And just write a review. It doesn't have to be long. It doesn't have to be clever. It doesn't have to be complicated. I'll even put to be clever. It doesn't have to be complicated. I'll even put this out there.

Yeah. It could be a bit. Ooh. It could be a bit. Now, usually, no bits. Yeah. Right. But to be fair,

to spoil something about running scared. It's got some good bits. It's also got some smits. It's got some smits. We're giving you a Smiths episode next week. So maybe just... Give us a bit or two. Write a bit on iTunes.

You can write literally anything you want. You can rate us anything you want as long as it's five stars. And you could just say, I'm, you know, pro-Bits, anti-Bits. I'm anti-Bits, pro-Smiths. Let me set some goals right now, okay? 150, we want to be number one on the chart.

Yeah. We currently have 214 reviews, 547 ratings. I want to fucking double that. Wow. I want 500 reviews, 1,000 ratings. Damn. In the words of Chris Gethard, if we're going to lose, we're going to lose well. I agree.

I think that would be good, wouldn't it, Ben? I mean, that would be a real bump. Yeah, it would really help the show. You know what? Not big enough. I'm taking it back. 1,000 reviews, 5,000 ratings.

All right. Shoot for the stars back there. But no, seriously, we want a blank check bump. Hashtag it. Blank check bump. Yeah. Oh, and hashtag too.

Yeah. Blank check bump on any social media platform. Whether or not it's about blank check. We're gun blank check bump. Hashtag it. Blank check bump. Yeah. Oh, and hashtag too. Yeah. Blank check bump on any social media platform. Whether or not it's about blank check. We're gunning for it. And this is serious. I'm not messing around. We want this. I want to be number one.

We got a big episode coming up. You guys have been supporting us for years. Yeah. This is a weird little show we do where we talk about movies for way too long and our producer gets mad at us. And you guys like it for whatever reason. Uh-huh. And that rules.

So let's finally make some noise. Right. guys like it for whatever reason. Uh-huh. And that rules so let's finally like, you know, make some noise. Right. Because this does make a difference. Let's bring in the noise, bring in the funk. I'll say this. You doing these things that sound kind of obligatory actually help put our show on the map. It gives us increased visibility on Apple Podcasts, you know?

Right. These things matter. Yeah. So once again again we're gunning for 15,000 reviews and 1 million ratings and we want to be the number one podcast on all of Apple Podcasts

but if we could double like Griff said that would be genuinely incredible for the show if we could do 500, 1000 that would be crazy but also if we could do 500, 1,000. 500 reviews, 1,000 ratings, that would be crazy. But also if we could be the number one podcast episode in history.

Right. If we could beat the ratings of a peak American Idol, like Justin Garini, American Idol. We want... Bo Bice. Right.

We want like a 17 share. Yeah. That'd be great too. But anyway. Hashtag bump, blank, check. No,

blank, check, bump. Hashtag, blank, bump, check. blank check bump hashtag blank bump check but podcast news coming up alright

we're done as part of the cast thank you for joining us we drag you into the studio all the time Emily we love having you it's my second home now I finally remembered

how to get here without looking up on the map so hey five timer and so happy to to have you in the audio Boom family.

Thank you. Yes. How great is it being produced by this guy? It's amazing. It's a dream. We've done so many podcasts at this point.

Yeah. They've all been produced incredibly. Yeah. And it's a dream. Wow. Thanks, guys. Super crispy.

Good boy. So thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Go to blankies.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit. Thanks to Ang for Gudo for our social

media, Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork, Leigh Montgomery for our theme song. And and as always ... ... ...

... ... ... How do you say that? You need to drop by, okay, because that's where we talk about all things pop culture. We talk about what people are watching, what people are listening to, like how the Smiths got on a Trump rally playlist, or how Elmo became the internet's therapist, or how Dad TV got so darn popular. Commotion with Elamin Aboumahmoud is available on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.