Blank Check with Griffin & David - Fearless with Timothy Simons

Episode Date: May 10, 2026

Peter Weir's Fearless is about a man who survives a plane crash and finds that he is no longer allergic to strawberries. It's also a deeply affecting, soulful exploration on what it means to be alive. And, as David Sims says - it's the "final boss" of plane crash movies. "Hitmaker" Timothy Simons joins us to chat about Jeff Bridges, Rosie Perez, "pink cloud syndrome," and aerophobia in this episode, so fasten your seatbelts and brace for impact! With a limited-time offer, get Huel today with an exclusive offer of 15% off online with the code CHECK at https://www.huel.com/check. New customers only. Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Some podcasts are afraid of nothing. So the tagline for this movie is some people are afraid of nothing. I pulled that off of a low-res, barely loading image on the Wikipedia page for Fearless, because IMDB is down. IMDB is down, but box office mojo is working. Really? Yeah. We're recording this on the day of seemingly the apocalypse.

Uh-huh. It is stormy and dark as hell outside. It looks like the planet Camino. Wait, wait, it was barely, it was like drizzling. Griffin's, okay, okay. It's looking overcast. There have got to be, I mean, like. Griffin, you can't live in New York and be like, it's going to rain.

I think the world, this is it. It's over. Rain, I go, okay, I can put up with this. You're like, IMDB is down. My apps are down. That's tough for you, the IMDB being down too. I did. Yes, Amazon Web Services is a terrible company.

A terrible service as part of a terrible company. has collapsed today. And like 60% of the internet has gone down with it. How did I not hear about this until now? Because you got your head in the clouds and your ivory tower. I am. I'm up in my ivory tower. Yeah.

But usually they give me the broad strokes of what the pleas are dealing. They can't reach you because they're on the web service. Your team is on AWS. Well, I would have assumed that one of my handlers would have mentioned. You forget that your handlers are AI and they're all. also backed up on AWS. Oh, wow. Yeah, well, no, it's actually, no, they're humans,

but he won't let them look at him or see his face. So they have to communicate with him via the internet. Yeah. Even if they're in the same room. Yeah. Right, exactly. And if they look at your face, what do you do? Well, it starts with, like, just like a hard or stern, like, morning.

Like, just like a look of, like, you know that you shouldn't have done this. Right. And then it proceeds from there to be more physical. Right. It's also, here's the thing. You're so tall that making eye contact with you requires a lot of effort. You can't do it by accident. Sure. Gotta crane that neck.

You got a crane a neck. There's no plausible deniability. Nope. No. Unless you're on top of a ladder. Or if I'm sitting down. Even then. And then even then.

Even then. You should have, you should have tried harder. How tall is- You sitting down might be me standing? What? How tall is chicken shop date, girl? Have you done the date? You got to do that.

Because I feel like that'd be a, she feels short. You could do like a fun height differential. Oh, okay. You know, hit chicken shop date. I've only ever. She's seen her sitting down. Dimond Bowl. Amelia something.

I'm sorry. I don't want to mangle her name. She might be sneaky taller than you think. Let me see if Amazon Web Services can answer my question. It says she's 5'3. So that's, you know. Okay. Yeah, we would have a stark difference in our appearance.

Amelia Dmoldenberg. One could argue that that could be used for comedic effect. Well, this is what she does. She has never, she, it's astounding. It's astounding. It's astounding. It's astounding. She's done.

She went where? I'm just, I'm doing the English thing that is, that is not acceptable that I shouldn't do where I judge someone where, based on where they went to secondary school. She went to a posh school. In my experience, in my life, all dates have gone well. All of her chicken shop dates? No, all my dates. Oh, all your dates.

Oh, yeah. And I watch her and I go, wait a second, what if a date was awkward? I, I'll actually say. I think she's very, I find her incredibly charming. I think she's very funny. I do, too. I was just mocking the premise, but she's really good. I have never watched, like, a full episode.

I see clips. Is it supposed to be intentionally awkward or is that... Yeah, it's got the sort of YouTube comedy kind of, you know, the, right, the pauses and the harsh cuts and stuff. It's like, it's good. Between two ferns with less of a character. Okay. Right. And less antagonistic. You like the little moments right where they are really being humans.

She's a person. Right, yeah, yeah. Right. Chicken shop date. Yeah. Sometimes you're like, same with hot ones. You're like the cream roast of the top here, baby. Like, I know there's like a thousand pounds of crap on the internet and I, and I, you know,

I'm hearing about this one because she's pretty good at it. She's pretty good. Right. Yeah. You know what else is pretty good? Okay. I haven't done hot ones. But I would not be...

Why are you in this garbage? Because I can, I feel like, and we'll see how this goes, I feel like I could succeed here. And hot ones, like I... You think, do not have the Constitution? I do not have the Constitution. Oh, you don't like a spicy. I cannot handle it. I...

Yeah, no, I... I mean, that might be funny. I truly don't know if I would be able to physically... continue. And I know that, like, people struggle there, and that's part of it. But I worry about even, like, the very basic way. So you're thinking you'll... I got to correct you there.

He's never taken an L. Oh, me? You think he's struggling. But he just doesn't play like that. Oh, no, he's never taken a N. He's tapped out about wing four or five, I think. He's never taken an L. He's never eaten a pee. Is there... And you don't mean

them peas from a pod. No, he's eaten those. Is there... Is there any, is there like a downside to not continuing? I mean, you're kind of being a poopie pants, I guess. Like, right? You're not brought to the town square. A little commander poopie pants. I feel like you're being a little bit of a commander poopie pants.

I mean, I think that like the way through if you're struggling, it's just like take a little bite of each one or whatever. Right. No one's leaning on you to finish your wings. Okay. Right? It's very few people really like actually leap bones. Have I shared my conspiracy theory? Go ahead.

That, because, like, DJ Khaled really, like, fucking ate shit and looked like a fool. And do you think they pulled it back a little bit because of that? I was talking to someone who was, like, do you think they've nerfed the sauces? Do you think the sauces are watered down now because no one has... No one really has much trouble until the bomb, which everybody reacts to, because that exists to make people react. And the guests keep on getting better, right? Yeah. And I equate it to, uh, I think our buddy.

Lynn Manuel, drop a name, told us this. Well, Lynn Manuel, who? Miranda. Oh, oh. That when big stars are doing like Chicago for like 10 days.

He said this on Mike, didn't he? I can't remember. Yeah. Oh, this person doesn't have a musical theater experience. How the fuck are they going to do this show?

And the company has been doing the show for 25 years that they basically have A, B, and C tracks where they bring them in for their first rehearsal and see what their natural ability as a singer and dancer is

and go like, okay, they're a C. Right, they won't too much. We're doing a simpler version of the show. We move around the more. And the A, you're like, oh, they actually have the skills. I think they have, like, different intensities of the sauces. They try the first wing and they're like, you're a liar.

I mean, you think they're lying. I think they don't know that they're getting an easier go of it. But I think the production is adjusting in real time. Oh, here's this season's sauces. And Ben did the Hot Ones challenge. It was tough. Yeah, it was really, really fucked up. Did you finish every wing?

Like, did you try to, like... Yeah, I've made it to the end. Yeah. No, I'm more I mean, like, were you taking a bite of each wing or, like, finishing the wing? I let the show inform my approach where I wasn't taking that whole fucker down. Right. I would take... And then I feel like it's...

I would take, like, a reasonable bite. Right. Is the entire wing coated in that sauce, or are they just putting a drop on? No, it's totally coated. Of course, the 10th wing, you get the dab. Yes. The wing is already coated, but... an extra dab.

And you get a little extra dab. And if you're Jennifer Lawrence, you say, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? The thing I always think about, though, and I like hot ones, having done it myself,

the next day, the shit that I took was so radioactive. It ruins multiple days. Okay. For you. Like, as far as your digestive track. Okay. Right.

Because you're not supposed to do that. I think about these celebrities having to then take a shit for the next few days. It's brutal. Now, in Fearless, do you think he would do the Hot Wings Challenge No Problem while he's in fearless mode

The Bull Strawberries kind of is his hot ones challenge That's what I'm saying Like I mean honestly his life in fearless mode Which is what I'm referring to his like sort of cognitive dissonance or whatever Is like you know hot wing He's doing hot ones Is like Da bum Beyond insanity

It almost becomes his last ab If not for the power of love That was good Thank you. Did you see how he turned it around Back to the I really like I tried to do that like five minutes ago and it was ignored. This is blank check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby! Our guest is mouthing along. Oh, what a cutie pie.

I really like the baby part. Our guest is such a cutie pie. I'll just say it. He's a cutie pie. This is a mini series on the films of Peter Weir. It is called so a cute pie. Podnick at hanging cast. Right?

Although I want the opinion of her guest. Oh my God. What's what were the other options? Here he fucking goes. Podster and cast mander the pod side of the cast. Now, I like. Every time he says it, he pivots out of the title because he knows it's bad. Being able to get pod and cast in there two times each.

I mean, I think maybe in theory rather than practice. Today, we're talking about fear of this. Oh, he pivots right away. Our guest today, of course, from the hit movie Goosebumps, previously known as Tim Simons, today introduced exclusively as Hitmaker. Oh, my God. The hitmaker! He's here. Hitmaker.

Blonde edition. You're here in New York. Hitmaker. Frost. You're here in New York. Tim has blonde hair. Press gauntlet. You're doing all the morning shows.

That's why we're talking about all these other fucking things. Because you're doing like every morning show here in New York. Yes. To promote the new season of the Netflix show, nobody wants this. which at the time this episode comes out, will have premiered six months ago. Right, his reheated oatmeal at this point, if you want to watch that on Netflix now,

it's still there, I assume. Maybe. Unless he got canceled. Everyone will have watched it 30 seconds at a time on TikTok by this point. Oh, hell. Yeah, exactly. And start me at like Part 62, right? You know, like TikTok likes to just dump you in the middle there. Now, Tip, the show's called Nobody Wants This, but judging by the viewer dead,

it seems like a lot of people want this. I, uh, have I told you this story before? Has that just sucked? Interesting. You just got a job offer. I got a job offer. NBC. How many of those do you have to deal with now?

A fair amount. Yeah. A fair amount. But I don't know if I've ever told you this or if you saw this at the time, but there was a lot of conversation around what the show was going to be called. It had a working title and then it had a few other, like a few other working titles, one of which I thought worked. I think at one point it was going to be called. It was initially titled Shiksa. And then it was called, for a little bit, it was called heartburn.

And you can't do that. Well, no, that's the thing is that ultimately, I think if it existed in a vacuum is a good name for the show. Sure. Sure, but it's fucking similar a afron movie. It should have been called like, the Jewish guy and the white girl. That's just like the most obvious. Wow. Getting a text from Netflix that they want to hire you.

Hire me for title brainstorm. You guys got to stop being so good at this. You're getting all these jobs. I just think that almost every time. something is titled like that, it bombs, and then the headlines write themselves and everyone's like, we should have seen this coming. Yes. It's a rare case where a title has that much of a self-own in it, and it fucking defies the haters. I don't know if you remember this, but when they announced the title and they gave, you know, they gave us like, here's your first look pictures if you want to

post them. I posted on Instagram, hey, here is the show. It comes out on whatever day. This was for the first season and here's a picture of Adam and Kristen and they look amazing. And I said, I really hope that reviewers like this show, otherwise they are going to dog fuck us into the ground with our title. Dog fuck us is a great hitmaker. It's a hitmaker for sure. Yeah. That's you. That's you through and through. Yeah. I can't think of another case where it's worked out. Yeah. Like what's the worst that could happen? It's a big one. I remember the Dane DeVito. Martin Lawrence movie Where that came out

Buying a ticket To this piece of shit Right The reviews were just like A full page photo Of the critic pointing at the poster Zero Stars Like

There was This is a little bit more Like It's not as direct But I remember like How do you know Ended up being like How do you know

This is a shitty movie I watched it or whatever You just don't want like a vague question Any kind of negative statement Obviously Yeah. Can I, I'm just, so you're in nobody wants this, so that's on Netflix. Well, anything else we should mention that you're, you're in Percy Jackson. I forget when that's coming out. Oh, yeah. Wait, when does this come? So this is, of course, posting on May 10th, 2020.

Wow. Jesus. Really? Yeah. So we hope Trump at this point is solve six to eight more wars. Yeah, by the time you're listening in this, you're in month six of the AWS outage. Yeah. You're right. If you're even. The only thing that's still down, though. Everything else is fine. I think at this point I will have been in Scream 7. Oh, fuck yeah.

There you go. Wait, do you make it? Well, I can tell you that I am in the film Scream 7. Okay, fine. Yeah. Fantasy was asking, like, are you ghost face? You have to tell me now. And Tim was like, I can't say anything.

And I was like, if the movie starts and Ghostface is seven foot three. Yes, that it is tough to, yeah, just kind of hide you as Ghostface. They're not going to hide you. This is the problem. I'm not asking you to reveal any spoilers. but I think I'm going to know pretty quickly whether you are or are not. He's like hunched down.

Yeah, like he has to be bumps his head on every door frame. It's like, I wonder. Chicken shop date. And it keeps like, it's very obvious. Right. She's the other one. Yeah. No, those are,

those where I'd say by and large the things that are going on. Well, I'm seeing, is your commander bell on the handmaid's tail. Now I'm seeing here that June stabbed you in the eye. Who's June? June is Lizzie Moss. And she, she fucking stabs you. She stabs me in the eye. And there was a point...

And were you, like, in charge of all that, all the bad stuff happening? Or were you kind of... Were you one of the good guys? I played one of the very... I think if Elizabeth Boss is stabbing you in the eye, you might not be one of the... Not all men? I was like, the leader of, like, the resistance. And she was just like, she thought I was, like, going at him too hard.

And she was like, you know... Moderation. Yeah, we need to be moderate about this. Yeah, this is the problem. Yeah. No, I did. I played a bad person. I think I was kind of thrown in there as, like, you know, the son of... of an unseen very powerful voice.

Oh, you're like a nepo. I'm like a nepo. And there is like a, there is like a generational. A generational. Yeah. And I did take this, I don't, we don't need to talk about this. Did you work with Max? No, probably.

I did. One thing that was very fun was that I kind of at some point crossed over with everybody in the show. You're in like five episodes. Yes, but I somehow managed to have at least a small scene. Whitford? Whitford had some scenes of Whitford fucking rules. Are you kind of doing a Whitford thing with the blonde hair? He's got the white hair, but you know, just kind of the shock of hair, you know?

There's nothing intentional behind it, but if there is any way that I can be compared to him, I will take it. He's a great career. It is an incredible career. And there is just something about his cadence that makes me happy. It's so specific. And yes, it is in a lot of characters that he plays. but it never feels like a crutch. And also,

he can kind of, he can moderate, it doesn't feel like a gimmick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing that I find amazing about watching Bradley Whitford is that there is a real subtlety about,

like, he's not the most still, like, facial actor. No, he's not. But there is such a subtlety in his, like, facial movements

that I think is so admirable. So I agree with that. In another Netflix show. the diplomat, which is a hit show on Netflix. Oh, yes. Kind of a hit. Episode on Fearless, the Peter Weir movie from 1993.

Go on. I'm watching season three. Season three just dropped, right? And so in season two of the day, you know, some diplomat, it's about what if Carrie Russell was a diplomat? Of course. And what if Rufus Siebel was her Randy husband,

who just loves to almost have affairs? Like, kind of a plot point in the diplomat is Rufus Siebel keeps being like, can I fuck you? And the lady's like, yeah, you should fuck me. And he's like, actually I can only fuck my wife. But I'll fart with you. Like, he like, can't actually have a affairs when he gets like he loves to get close

and then he's just like sorry I'm so in love with Carrie Russell Season two introduces who's the vice president Alice and Janney okay yes we love Alice and another example yeah and then not to spoil the diplomat but some things happen kind of Veep style and she becomes the president and then in season three we meet

her husband Bradley Whitford and it's like that's the most gimmicky version of using Bradley Whitford right West Wing reunion we're marrying two West Wing actors who were, you know, not married, right? And even still, I was like, I'm happy to see him. Of course.

He's not if you're Bradley walking, he's got a big beard or something. He's like, it's great. I just, he fucking rules. I had to do a, there's a picture of us doing dance rehearsals on a Sunday. Now, I hear you do a dance and nobody, he told me he keeps getting this question at the end. I do do do a dance. He does a dance. I do do do a dance.

And, but we had to do, we also had to do dance rehearsals for the hand. Maid's Tale. And there is a picture of Bradley Whitford tonight. For like ballroom dancing or something? We were doing the fox trot. There's a macarine at the end of the season. I'm sorry, who do you do the fox trot with it? I'll admit I never watch the handmaid. Are you only on the last season? I'm only on the last season. There's a big wedding. There's a big wedding. And so people are like doing a sort of fancy dance during the wedding. And we were at these fox trot rehearsals and it's on a Sunday. And we are sitting at the studio that we're rehearsing in is called the studio is called the Joe. of dance. Okay. And we are sitting underneath a, like, a TV that has the logo that says the joy of dance. And I'm, like, so happy to be there. And Bradley Lippert is sitting next to me, looking like the most miserable man. Most cantankerous who has ever lived. And I have the biggest shit-eating grin on my face underneath the sign that says the joy of dance. It is just two people in very different circumstances in their head. And I love that picture.

That's nice. David, I have terrible news. What's up? Bradley Whitford is a graduate of Juilliard. David. Do you not like Juilliard? No, this is a thing. I do not like people's lionization of Juilliard. I do not mind if people went to Juilliard. Griffin thinks I have a beef with Juilliard.

Now, I have a beef with the way that elite schools in this country and other countries get their dick sucked all day and nice. That's all. That's all. There's something wrong with a little bit of top. You don't like too much top. Oh God. Don't go down to the shaft. The thing is, David loves to do this defense now, right? I love to do this defense now.

We did the Superman movies on Patreon. Christopher Reeve, famous graduate of Julia. David Corinswitt, current Superman, famous graduate of Juilliard. Can you believe a guy who I don't know if he's a famous graduate of Julian? Which one? Superman now. I guess he's currently very famous. He's currently becoming famous.

But I don't know. of Superman. I don't know that you can say famously a graduate of Juilliard because I did not know that until just now. This is why the podcast exists to educate people. Did Dean Kane get like, is he in the office for a minute there? Like if it's like you're imagining like presidential terms, which like Christopher Reeve until Superman 4 and then is it like succeeded by Dean Kane?

I think he's almost more like the U.S. ambassador. Or is it like in Wikipedia Roeby like Superman, but it says like acting beneath like it's sort of like there's a qualifier. Right. Right. And then we actually have. have Brandon Ralph or whatever. He graduated from the Juilliard of like going through those tubes pretending to be an ice agent. Oh, dude. There was the Juilliard of fucking proud boy training centers.

He's like, watch me own the lives. And I'm like, you're doing an assault. You are owning yourself, my friend. So David now frames it as I just have a problem with the lionization of upper institutions. I do as well. I fucking hate higher education. Okay. Yeah. When I bring it up. I don't know. I'm Same what I do. Okay. When I bring it up in the episode, David goes from zero to eight thousand and goes, If you bring up Julia again, I'm going to fucking murder you. That is the direct quote with no explanation of why he was spinning out of control.

And then he goes, I don't understand why people think I hate Julia. You deserve it. You deserve it then and now. I'll murder you now. He only explains things eight to nine months ago. It's because we're doing a commentary and I'm watching it. And he went to Julia and I'm like, stop fucking bring it up to him. Who gives us shit?

I don't care where someone went to school. That is how I feel. That quickly, people are like, did Juilliard murder his parents in a back alley? No, my dad was a working class guy who probably drilled this shit into me a little too hard, if anything. My dad didn't go to college. Did he drive a lorry?

No, I mean, maybe in his younger days. Did he drive a lorry? Just going for the lowest common denominator joke there. Hitmaker. I will say. Yeah. Yeah. As, despite your feelings about Juilliard, going back to Bradley Whitford for one moment, the man is an amazing storyteller.

He has a lot of great stories about being... He's been on so many sets. So many sets. He worked with so many cool people. He once told me a 20-minute breakup story that included a doctor's visit where he found out that the Challenger had exploded. And that was... Sounds good. The smallest detail of the story.

The man's an incredible storyteller. So this is pre-Caxameric. Yes. How do you say your last name? I wish that was Casmericic. Yeah, you're probably, no, Katzmaric. Because he was married to her. Yes, pre-Jamekazeric.

So it would have been like, you know, I think college girlfriend. Okay, all right. Yeah, I would have been back back. All right. Coed Bradley. Man about town, Bradley. What, you were about to say something, Griffin. Hitmaker.

Oh, yes. The previous two appearances you have made. made on this podcast are... Our guest is Timothy Simons. We've said that way. Hitmaker. The Shining and Joss. Wait, I and also, only to digress.

To digress, and I definitely want to, we have to talk about that. I am very... The nickname Hitmaker. Coined by Tracy Lutz. Coined by Tracy Lutz. Who has a Pulitzer Prize. You got zero of those. I have zero of those.

I found out from Tracy Lutz that apparently you find out that you find out that you were nominated for a Pulitzer Prize at the same moment that you either win or lose it. That's why. Yeah. You basically get notified like, right, you made the three. Yes, but they also give you a call, right? If they're like, hey, by the way, you didn't get it. Right. And like, you would just be enjoying your morning. It's an honor to be, you know, shortlisted. Yeah, to be shortlisted. You're just like walking around and somebody calls you, oh, hey, by the way, you didn't win one today. I didn't

even know it was an option. If you're Tracy lets, you're walking around probably a closet of disc somewhere. Yes. Yeah. You get the call. So he coins that. And it feels like a nickname that I just don't know based on my own personal constitution that I can lean into it too hard.

The reason that I am even... He's making the joke because you were on a show that was a hit. But what I am known for nickname-wise previous, the little part of me that leans into it is that every other nickname I am publicly known by has something to do with jizz. And it's just kind of nice. Because I was assuming like your height might be, you know, like because of Veepe, because of like the JANAT files, because of all those nicknames. That show has a running gag of people coming up with the worst things to call you with

tightens for seasons. I mean, not little tall. A tall little freak, weasel. And so it is nice, I think, just for there to be like one nickname out there that is, complimentary in a way and I do like that although I don't lean into it too hard I would never refer to myself as such

It would be funny if you went on like CBS this morning and like handed a postcard ring like And you shall refer to you shale I'm picturing you Joker style leaning back in the chair And one last thing When you bring me out So Jaws and the Shining Are the two pretty obvious

We have an active group text with friends You will text us Once or twice a year And go guys I got to come back on blank check Oh, now we're going to roast him. I think this is good. I think this is good. Right.

Yeah. And then we're like, get some foglers. Of course. Tim, we'll have you on any time. Tim, we're doing this director. Well, first we'll say, we're booked up right now. The second we have new stuff on the schedule, we'll let you know. And then we go, Tim, here you go.

It's the Glenn Gary leads, right? Yes. Here's the first six months of a schedule. Take your pick. You have first crack and you always go, none of these really get my dick hard. But it's like David Lynch and the Cohen brothers, where the two where you were like flipping through.

Oh. Blue Velvet, is that a movie? Yeah. Oh. Well, I'm sorry. Or we show you Spielberg and you go, I guess I would do E.T. Raiders or Jaws. You either only pick the three things everyone want to do or you go,

none of these get my dick. All right. Let him, let him defend it. Let me defend myself. Let me defend myself momentarily. When it came to Lynch and the Cohenbrose, brothers, I was, I was, I was very vocal about the Cohen brothers. And I, Grant, I know you'd like doing these things in person. So some of it is schedule-wise. It is. I want to honor your commitment to

doing it in person. I appreciate that. When it came to the Cohen brothers, I believe I threw out a list of all of them. I still haven't seen, ever seen lady killers, which I am sort of embarrassed by, even though I know it's like not a favorite or whatever. You're fine. I feel, thank you. I feel like maybe that was embellished a little bit when it came to the Coens because I am such a huge fan of the Coens. Sure, sure. But I also want to, in a way,

part of that is I don't want to take away something from the Lynch filmography that somebody feels passionately about when I'm a little bit more, you know, oh, I'm going to take that away from the... I understand that. I think it's a good call. And the director is right.

People are going to be passionate. And then sometimes shit just doesn't get my dick hard. You know what I mean? You do now. Drop that phrase. I bring this up, not. to roast you as much as to say this episode

Mark Anthony over I'm not here to roast I'm not here to roast this episode this episode came about a different way we throw you the schedule you go honestly

I'm up for anything you guys tell me where I could best be used right yeah and I say have you ever seen fearless and you say no

and I go I feel like that might be a hit maker movie right why don't you watch it throw it on tell me what you think if you spark to

in the way I think you will it's yours but you were mensch about this. I was, and I think even on this list, there were things where I was like, I had just very recently seen Picnic at Hanging Rock for the first time, but there was a part of me that was like, I can't tackle. That's kind of a big, yeah, right. That's a big one. Yeah. I think you're the one to speak to the sort of teenage girl experience in like turn of the century in Australia. Women going

missing. But I think it, I think it's a lot of experience. Weird. Yeah. To your credit, you recognize that, yes, I may have been the perfect person for that episode. Yeah. But then. we're like, you know, maybe we should maybe we should give another voice a chance on that. So look, heavy weighs the crown. And we loved having Hillary Clinton on that episode. We haven't booked that episode yet. It's going to be Hillary.

You know, you do a thing like Jaws or Shining. You're like, this has to be a three-hour episode. We're going to talk about fucking every element of this movie. And we'll wedge in some tangents. But like, Fearless is the kind of movie. I love covering on this podcast where I'm like, I think this is an excellent movie. Yes, but it does not require.

Right, like an oil level drilling, yes. No, yes. And it offers many different tendrils of conversation. And I was excited to do something because I am passionate about The Shining and Jaws, and those are like totemic films in and of themselves. I am sort of excited to talk about one that I didn't have like much of an emotional. I had never seen it. So I didn't really have an emotional connection to it.

You've seen it twice now. didn't really look up, and I would say even broadly, I have seen a lot of Peter Weir's movies, but I'm not like familiar with his style throughout his entire career. And so, and I haven't looked up anything about this one. So I'm actually really excited to find out more about Fearless Today, just as somebody who, as a listener. We're here to learn. I mean, I think Peter Weir is an ultimate. His style matches the material.

kind of guy, right? Not that he's a chameleon. I think there are two lines. Sure. I think of him a little similar to Sidney Lumatz. A little bit, I mean, but I see, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm interested as we do that, because like the thing with Angley when we did him, we picked Angley because he was a blank check candidate.

Obviously, he made movies like Hulk that we were like perfect for the show. But we were also like, oh, he's kind of a chameleon, right? He's done a bunch of genres. Then you watch the movies and you're like, there are very obvious themes and through lines. Every single movie is about emotional repression. when it bubbles over. Yes. Like, you know,

made and found all this shit. You know, like, and you're like, right. And I'm excited to see this with Peter Weir too. I do feel like he was a little bit more of a, I want to do something different. Like, you know,

consciously. Like, as he was approaching projects as he's accruing fame. It's also an era in Hollywood when there were interesting scripts that you could pivot to. Yeah. You could tell your team, like, I want,

find me something that's more dramatic. Find me something that's more going to cost this much money, right? Like versus like, whatever, I'm Peter Weir, so I do this sort of movie. Like, the story of this movie is he had made Green Card and he was like, well, I don't want to do something as light next time. Like, it's a broad, you know, sort of direction for him to go in, but he's thinking of directions to go in. The book comes out the same year as the movie. So this is a thing that gets optioned as a manuscript. It's not adapting a hit book, right?

And it's not even like, you read the galleys of this thing and you go like, holy shit, this is the Da Vinci Code. people are going to lose their minds. I imagine you go, this is a good piece of writing, you know, and this is a good vehicle for a good actor. And Jeff Bridge is certainly a star at this period of time, but he's not Harrison Ford. He's not Mel Gibson. He's not Robin Williams. Well, indeed talk about it. The studio was unhappy.

A-list box office, right. He's like one of the best actors working in the studio system in the 90s, the studio system, in Hollywood, in the 90s. But he's a guy who kind of has a little bit of a box office ceiling while having, like, ultimate credibility. And you look at the poster for this movie. This isn't a blank check movie. No. But the top thing of the poster is from the director of witness and dead poets.

Right. He's got these two big grown up Hollywood hits that he can now, like, you know, advertise off of it. Even if he's not a household name, this is an era where you could put that at the top of a poster and people would walk by it and go like, I liked the way those movies made me feel. And also, it seems like, and this is a broad statement, I guess, and I don't. want it to be detrimental to audiences right now. This also very much seems like a movie that could be made in 1993 where you see those two movies above the title. And this is not like necessarily a fun, exciting night out at the movies. It's a movie I really, really enjoyed. But it also is not like, hey, let's go to the cinema play. An audience was willing to engage with a movie

to some extent. Yeah, it was a modest hit, I would say, right? Like it made... Okay. Was the studio not happy with Jeff Bridges being cast? Well, you'll just, I can go into the dossier, but, like, Weir's first call was to Mel Gibson, who's someone he'd worked with before, who's obviously a giant star. And Gibson was busy making his first film, the man without a face, and probably doing other normal stuff. And, you know, like, he's your best friend. You can probably speak to it better than me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was in the car when he got pulled over that one time. Say more stuff. Say more stuff. You pitched him sugar tits. I did.

I was like, it's going to be like a little harsh, but they'll find it funny. They're not recording this. You passed him a list of alt's dog fucker. I know that's not how you use it. When he, you know, Gibson passed, Peter Weir then went to the studio and was like, I'm thinking Jeff Bridges. And they were like, oh, we were thinking another Mel Gibson type famous person. We like Jeff Bridges as fine, but that's not that tier of fame. So they were disappointed when, you know, they learned he was like, no, no, no.

Jeff Bridges. We're talking about this a lot in this series, but because Weir was so much a guy who worked with the top A-list stars and was a guy that these stars trusted either brought on to develop their projects or would sign on to the project because he was directing it, this is still a time where if you have one of the 10 guys above the title, you can basically sell the audience on whatever they're doing. Yeah. You can take something that seems a little challenging or a little on commercial and a studio will give it tens of millions of dollars and full promotional

support and the audience will like go along for the ride and you're like across the 90s he works with and the 80s. He works with Gibson Williams, Ford, and Kerry. Yeah. Right? And he works with two of those guys two times. And let's not forget the other A list where he worked

with. Draw de Blas. Uh-huh. And that's a normal man. A normal man who definitely did not like pee in the ass. I need to go. I need to go. The bathroom is occupied.

The line is too long. I feel like there was also a very short flight. It was a very short flight. It was LA to San Francisco. It was LA to San Diego. And he's like, I gotta go. Just open the door. I don't go outside.

The fearless sequel. The fearless sequels, everyone can take off the plane, like, so shaken, except for one guy who's like, I feel fine. And it was like, sure, departure. You just. pissed all over our plane. That was... They opened the doors and the piss floor.

The one thing... The one thing that I read was that initially it wasn't a plane crash. It was just they all witnessed a man pee in the aisle. They just saw it. And then they were like,

I saw death in that moment. Yeah. Have we planted a flag that witness is the blank check? What is the blank? I would say the guarantor is your of living dangerously,

personally, but we'll get there. I think that's the guarantor that gets them into Hollywood. I think witness is the guarantee her for the next... For the rest. For the Hollywood career. You're right.

Because like, witness is kind of a... That movie, obviously, it's got Harrison Ford. So, you know, he helps. But the wild success of that film certainly means it's like he is now the kind of director pretty much anyone would want to work with. It's a big hit. He gets a best director nomination. But also, it is that thing where like...

And then Dead Poets and, you know, I mean... He made Harrison Ford respected as an actor. Yeah. And the same with Dead Poets and Robin Williams, I guess. Yeah. But there was a certain degree. The last guy who kind of had this, for better or worse, and mostly for worse, was David O. Russell. Yeah.

Where it was just like, people know it's automatic. If you're in his movie, you have a really good shot at getting an Oscar. You've got an awards campaign. Right. You won't get yelled out on set. Right. No. And I think a lot of these A-list guys really were just like, I trust this guy.

He's unlocking new corridors of movie stars, you know? I have two questions for, was, was Picnic? at Hanging Rock a reclamation, or was that something that really put him on the map at the time? I very much put on on the map. Arthouse sensation. And then... Australian cultural phenomenon in America and the States, art house phenomenon, beyond respected. And then where was Jeff Bridges in his career at this point?

Okay, so we got to talk about it because... All right, look. Good. I want to talk about it. He's been building bridges for 20 years at this point. Amazing stuff. Like, you look at his career and you daff your cat. Is he one of your guys, Tim?

he has always historically been one of those guys and probably because of of Lubowski has been one of those guys that I have always loved but as I have gone back and started filling holes a huge one I had never seen the last picture show and right at the start I was like oh that's why he's a fucking movie star he's like this sort of schlubby like he was a beautiful fucking movie star it's very true He was beautiful, but I do feel like for such a cutie pie, he took these roles, the early stuff like Fat City, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, he's like, I will play the face. I'll play the young guy, but it'll be in a dark movie that's like, you know, tragic and sort of playing against my handsomeness in a way, right? I mean, those are the two early ones post last picture show that really pop. He's the kind of cocky hot shot. You're right. It gets taken down a bit. Right, because he also does stuff we don't remember. made a NASCAR movie called The Last American Hero,

which I think is probably just more direct, like, what if he was a cocky, hot-shot guy? He entered the grid, of course, in the 80s. Well, we'll get there. But, you know, in the 70s just to do more of the 70s. You know, stay hungry, he's really good. And that's a good movie, the Bob Raffleson. King Kong, he see gorilla.

Yeah, he see gorilla. I don't, I'm crunchy. He, environmentalist. Winter kills, a movie I know Ben enjoyed. Yeah, I just saw it recently. Which has had a bit of a revival of late. Winter kills? Yeah, dude, you would dig winter kills.

It's kind of like a weird, like, Satire of the JFK's vaccination. It's like a parallax View spoof movie, kind of. It's a very strange film. That sounds like it fucking rules. It does kind of rule. And then Heaven's Gate. Right.

It's not, I don't think, really held against anybody. He's not even a big part of that movie. Mm-hmm. That movie's held against Chameet. Like, it's not held against Chris Christofferson or whatever. So, here, this is the other thing we just have to call out if we're, like, even setting up the beginning of bridges. His dad just fucking work a day. career actor, right?

Yeah, of course. And it is instilled in him and his brother, just the fucking work ethic of this is a job, this is how you treat people right, this is how you show up, and he would throw his kids little parts on the shows he was working, see, hunt and stuff, you know? Like, Lloyd Bridges was just a guy, right?

Without being a star, but had like a solid career and just really drilled into them, like, you can't take this for granted, every job's a gift, you got to show up and give it your best. and then he talks about Last Picture Show being the first moment where he's like,

oh, I like see how I could build a life out of this. Yeah. Where it went from being a thing of like, I don't know, this has kind of gotten thrown to me. And he gets this Oscar nomination for Last Picture Show. Yeah. Another for Thunderbolt Nighter. Well, the last picture show nominations,

the kind that doesn't happen that often anymore where you're like, this is not some extreme dramatic part, but a guy just fucking nails it so hard. It's the sort of like Jude Law, talented Mr. Ripley, like, welcome to the club nomination. And then Thunderbolt is like, congratulations. You've graduated to Two-Hander with Clean Eastwood and you've held your own. Not just held.

I think he, Eastwood, I think, was annoyed at it. He was like, this guy's fucking getting, having all the fun. Like, this guy gets the fun part. Which is that nomination of like, you might actually be like a fucking movie star. But are we in Infrastructure Week right now? Because we're building bridges? Yeah, because we're building bridges? We're built back better.

We got to build back better. better. I just should play Biden. One thing that I love. Right? Yeah. He got it? He actually good. He'd be really good. Moving pretty slow. David? Yes. Got an intentional air about you today.

Well, I'm more intentional about what I wear day-to-day. Oh. I like to lean into pieces that feel easy, comfortable, and put together. I'm sure you could get those from anywhere, right? No, Quince. Look, really, I am wearing... I'm literally wearing quix right now. Listeners, he's showing tag on Maine. It's been my go-to because very clean fits. Very nice fabrics.

Yeah. They don't feel like cheap fabrics. I hate dirty fits. I hate cheap fabrics. I admit, we're in, you know, the weather's getting warmer. I really rely on my Quince polo shirts for the kind of like, exactly, like a formal enough piece of clothing that I can go to the office, but it's comfy. Yes. Because we do have a dress code here at Blankton Productions.

So they got those 100% Pima Cotton T's with a softness. We got a feel to enjoy. And for the lizard home, David is touching the fabric. Pants hit that same balance, relaxed and comfortable. I got to tell you, I recently had a birthday, and my in-laws sent me a Quinn's gift card because they know I like Quinn so much, and I am itching to spend it. That's a really strong endorsement. That's an endorsement, right?

Yes. Everything at Quinn's priced 50 to 80% less than what you find is similar brands because they work with those ethical factories. They cut out the middlemen, getting premium materials without the markup. I've got the cashmere zip. David is showing me. Oh, nice. Cash fare zip. I like that sweater. It's very nice. Yeah.

I wear it all the time. It's got pockets. Um, so refresh your every day with luxury you actually use. Head to quince.com slash check for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada 2. That's QI-N-C-E.com slash check for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash check. He won for Crazy Heart. Yeah. Right.

You're jumping ahead there. I am jumping ahead a little bit. But one thing that is, one thing that I love about Jeff Bridges is when I remember so clearly he gets up there and just says, what a groovy profession, man. And it's that it was so lovely. It was so lovely. And I think that that work-a-day ethic that you're talking about is even present when he's doing that. And all of these, you get the sense that he was just like, yeah, I'm going to take my career seriously, but also I'm going to go work and I'm going to be in a movie. this one might not win an Oscar.

He's had like the same stand in for like, I want to say maybe 50 years now, who's like his best friend. And they're amazing sort of like photo montages you can see of them styled together across the decades. Of they just kind of like live in tandem. He's been like married to the same woman for decade. Like there's shit like this. But also I think it's like that heaven's gate moment doesn't knock him down. Well.

Because this guy's reputation is just like, I think within the industry. I want to speak to this. Within the industry, right. Professional, great, does interesting things. Arguably, until true grit, he was never seen as a guy who could, like, really guarantee box office. But I think he's, like, consummate pro. Of course. Everyone likes working with him.

He's never bad. Well, except if you tell him that Tony Stark, you know, you can't build, like, the arc reactor. And he knows that Tony Stark. But we have one of good pieces here. Built it in a cave from a box of scraps. That's, who wouldn't get frustrated by that, though? It's true. It's frustrating. It's like a son brought up Juilliard.

You'd have to snap. You have to be like, no, I'm going to build the arc reactor. Yeah. I just, when you look at his sort of post, you know, the first two noms, right? You look at the King Kong Winterkills, Heaven's Gate, Cutters Way, Tron. You are, I am like, right, he did a lot of interesting projects, and none of them really, like, financially succeeded. And King Kong made money, but under well, right, things like that. So it's like, by the time he does Starman in 84, a film we've covered, a film that really, I was thinking about a lot.

while I was watching. Fearless. They're similar performances in an interesting one. Right, because you're both about people who are a little outside of reality, right, who are like one step removed from being normal humans. And so much of him observing, like watching him look at stuff. And he's so tremendous in both movies. Yeah.

But, yeah, by the time he makes Starman, it's like, yeah, he's, you know, he's a little weird and he's like the guy carpenter would use to play like kind of a weird guy. And to your point, like two nominations before he's 25 and then it takes another 10 years before they give him the best actor. nomination. Right, right, for Starman. Then he did Jagged Edge, you know, morning after. He does these like thrillers. He's got his kind of grown-up thriller period.

Tucker, which he rocks in. He's so good in. God, he's. Have you seen Tucker Man in his dream, the FFC, Coppola? Megalopolis guy? Great bridge. Is that the guy who made the car? Oh, yes. I have seen Tucker. I haven't. I watched that I think when I was in high school. You ever seen Smuckers, the man in his dream

about the guy did the jelly? No. No, that one I missed. Then he does peanut butter and then it just. The wheels fall off. You ever seen the peanut butter solution? Yeah. Yeah. That is a good right.

Severing kids release? You got that? You got that below? Did they put it out? Oh yeah. You ever seen the peanut butter falcon? I didn't see the peanut butter falcon, but the guy that wrote and directed it used to go to my gym. Really?

Actually, still currently, I'm now just still. I thought you were going to say high school or something. You're a lying. You go to gym in Los Angeles. I could never believe such a thing. We actually used to go to one gym. Now that gym, and then that gym closed. And now we go to a new gym and he's at this new gym.

Tim, this is an honest podcast. Also, it's just like, this is the kind of incendiary stuff. We can't put on, like, you know, we need lawyers to check against this. We're an independent podcast. It's a liability you're exposing us to here? Look, my point is, after this weird kind of up and down 80s, and this is something Peter Weir says when he, in the dossier, when he says, like, I was drawn to bridges. It's like, Fabulous Baker Boys, 89, Fisher King 91. Like, it's kind of the, like, this is an interesting actor, like, who, who is a real movie star.

He is a real movie star. Undeniable. I would say the fabulous Baker Boys, the fabulous Baker Boys is the first time in my life that I was aware of Jeff Bridges. Yeah. Yeah, well, he rocks in it. You should see it. I should see it. It was like one of those movies that, like, my parents were talking about going to see.

It's my mom's every movie of all time. He's. He's always good, but there's something about when Bridges hits his 40s in the 90s. You're like, this makes sense. This makes perfect sense. This is good. This is like he's a grown up movie star with an interesting edge. I also think it's just to this point, right?

This is an era where if there's a good script that a good director is interested in, if there's an interesting piece of material around town, the studio goes like, we want to make this. Let's offer it to. Mel, both Tom's, whoever. Right. And then they pass and they go like, okay, let's move down a tier on the list. They don't go, well, then we're not going to make it. And Bridges kind of becomes this guy where a lot of those movies he did,

you imagine that the 10 guys above him all turned it down. And then the studio goes like, I guess we can get Bridges for cheap. And the director's like, great, I get to cast Jeff Bridges. Like, he's kind of the most interesting consolation movie star. Yeah. I think that's fair. He's always going to deliver. Well, let me open the dossie, in fact, to tell you what happened here.

And I also want to throw in a question, whatever that list above him is, and we don't need to get into, like, the specifics of the movie quite yet. Yeah. Is there any one of those actors that you think would have given as compelling a performance? No. I kind of... No, he's not perfect for this. He's kind of perfect for it.

Here's who I thought of. Yeah. Because of Unbreakable, Bruce Willis. because an Unbreakable is a sort of like very, very different movie, but sort of a similar idea of a guy who's kind of like can fucking nothing happen to me and who is recovering from an accident.

But Bruce, I don't think was ready for this yet. No, he'd be like, ooh, you'd be doing wisecracks. But like he makes sense as if Peter Weir had said, what about Bruce Willis? It should have been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, great, great, like we like that, you know, that'll sell. I feel like you texted last night, like all caps.

What was it? Peak Bridges. Bridges excellence. Bridges excellent. And I had... He is true. From minute one, you're just like, I am in good hands. Unbelievable.

And also the best head of hair I've ever seen. A fucking lion's man. Ben, speak to this for a second. I want to throw something at you. The way he looks in this movie, especially the sort of first look, the jacket, the glasses, the hair. Yeah. This is how men should look.

I kept thinking this. Like sort of early 90s, like the suits are a little bigger. The suiting is so fantastic. It's very much that trend of that time. where it was the sports jacket was like kind of a little bit longer. Yes, yes, a little baggier. Because the 80s are over.

Does the Armani influence? The hair and the sunglasses when he's meaning against the car. Those glasses, get me them right now. Chad GPT, like, how do I buy them? Like, this is what AI should be for. Truly, I, like, left watching that for the first time I was like, all of those looks,

like, I need to start wearing sports jackets. Yeah. He looks so, and then even the slacks, they're a little bit loose. They're kind of like a little bit, higher waist cut. Is this just like, do I just want to live in like

1992 and have like a palm pilot? Yes. You want to be him. Well, I want to be him too. It is Jeff Bridges. Right.

He's also, he's one of those guys where if you rough him up 10% he gets 50% more handsome. Right? Like him with like a little bit of dirt looking a little hungover. Yeah, he's a natural wine.

He's funky. He's funky. You're like, holy shit. If I am not mistaken, because I rewatched it. recently. I believe that this was the main visual reference for creepy CGI Jeff Bridges and Tron Legacy. You know, it makes sense. That they identify this as, this is his physical peak. If you're trying to visually create the uncanny valley of what's the Jeff Bridge's

frozen in time moment, it's this. That makes sense. Yeah. That's interesting. You could try to Fran Leibowitz those glasses. Speak on that. It's where, did you ever read this interview with Fran Leibowitz? You can have to be more specific. No, no, you know what, Griffin? Answer the Okay, yes. Where they're talking about her style and she was basically like, did she ever read this interview with Bruce Wallace? I'm just like, well, what? Yep. Sorry.

One of the most prolific interview givers that has ever been. She had this interview about her style, and she was basically like, I, the shirt that I wear, she wears like one shirt and she has her glasses. She's got a Doug Fonnie closet. Yes. It's the same outfit 50 times. same outfit every day. And she was like at some point the shirt maker that made those shirts stopped making them. So I had to start having them custom made. But then what also happened is

the glasses maker that makes my glasses stop to making them. And I had to have those custom made. And Ben, you'll know about this. Suiting, custom made shirts, not inexpensive, but not insane. I think if you're friendly boys. They were like, well, how much does it cost to have glasses made? And it really, she would not give a number, but broadly was like, how much does a car cost? That was the number. If it's one of one like that. If it's like one of one. And I'm sure if they were making them, she was like, make me two or three while you were there.

But I think that basically meant buying two or three cars. But it's like the, right. Yeah. When like they're making the bat suit in Batman begins. Like we bought 10,000 because we might as well. Like we're making them. Yeah. You're like these parts now basically need to be uniquely.

uniquely machined for her. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I think that is what she referenced in the article. I'll go look up that interview. If you just want to Google Fran Leibowitz's interview, I'm sure it'll be the first one that comes up. Right, right. I'll just just, I'll actually just yell it into my phone.

She only did one. I think, though, that now with 3D printing, I bet that it's actually a little bit more inexpensive. But I'm sure, you know, this is like a very recent technology. Yes. You definitely would have to get a mold created. that then they would have to fill with plastic or whatever the material basis. So, yeah, it was not a cheap process. Probably less expensive now. Can I just say, did you guys see the interview with Harrison Ford where he talked about Jay Leno? Don't answer the question anywhere. We know, I guess. Jay Leno? No, I think so.

Where Jay Leno 3D printed him a toilet seat. This is the, this is the most, this is the most charming. That's what he said when he's. handed it to him. Celebrity interview I have ever seen. Wait, but who's interviewing him about this? Like who is it's not Jay Leno. No, he is in an interview. I can't remember which one. I think it was him. It was like, what was the movie? Oh, it was probably for Red Hulk. That was the name of the movie. He's being interviewed by

NPR, the nice lady from NPR, not Terry Gross, another one. And Tanya, can you quickly just please pay respect to our president, salute. There he is, of course. The president. Oh, there is. You can't invoke him without showing some proper response. And Jay Leno calls him during the interview. He calls. Hey, you have to toilet thief's ready. And she's like, why is Jay Leno calling you? And he was like, oh, he's making me a toilet seat. And then goes on to explain that he has a rare toilet seat and or a rare toilet that does not have any new seats, but he loves the toilet. And Jay Leno has a 3D

printed. Has the technology because of all the car shit that he does. And Jay was like, I'll take care of for you. I'm not doing it justice, but it's a very charming interview. I'm just kind of real. You know, Harrison Ford, as we've, I think, brought up on other episodes, he's, yeah, he's been given some charming interviews of light. We, we, there's a wild card with Rachel Martin. Okay. There you go. There you go. We did our, our witness episode with the great Amanda Dobbins very recently. Oh, that's great. And talking about how that's a, like, peak physical form, the best, one of the best looking men in the history of movies has ever looked movies. And yet, watching this just a week or two later, I'm like, this might actually be the number

one look a guy has ever had on screen. Yeah. Yeah. This in a way, and I'm not saying any of us could attain it, this feels somewhat more attainable than Peake Harrison Ford. Yes. There is a possibility that another human being could look like this. There's something weirdly a little more every man about him.

Yeah. And his handsomeness comes from like, it is not an obvious show. chiseled perfection. Yeah. But I also think this era of him in the 90s, his work just feels so, like, simple and effortless while clearly being thoughtful. And like, soulful, like deeply soulful in everything. This man is just, like, so comfortable on camera, understands the medium and has just,

like, honed his fucking craft. And then Lubowski, obviously, like, breaks something in him that leads to the next era of I'm a Billy Goat gruff eating a tin can. I live under a bridge. Right. And like everything after that point becomes something else. Which he's very good at. What were his 90s after this?

Jeff Bridges, it's a good question. And I'm going to hear it to answer it for you because I do think it's not like, look, he made the Big Lobowski. So like he has a great 90s, right? But he does make a lot more stuff that goes over okay to bad. So the vanishing remake, he's actually good in that, you know, but. I think ultimately pretty good. good movie except for the fact that they...

It's a remake of a better movie or whatever. Blown away, he kind of rocks in it. He does a lot of, like, yelling movies. So blown away, white squall, Arlington Road, all kind of solid movies where he yells a bunch. Right. None of them classics. Yeah. Wild Bill, where he plays Wild Bill Hickok for Walter Hill was a huge failure. Right. And that felt like the first, the biggest stretch he had done it a while. In terms of like a bit, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Mirror has two faces, a movie we've covered on this podcast. Very normal. The issue is But it is how normal it is. It's too normal.

Just regular and nothing weird happens. You forget you're watching a movie and not looking at a blank piece of paper. Right. Or just like, right, watching your friends hang out. It is so reflective of the way normal people talk today. But then the thing with LaBain, right, and dialogue, the way they're right, the way the interact and dress and behave. But like with Lobowski, it's like, Labowski, sure, it doesn't do very well at the time,

but very quickly you see love of bridges, right? Like so the contender, he plays the fucking president. He's great in that movie. He gets another Oscar nomination. Oh, that was with, why am I blanking on the internet? Joan Allen. Yes. Yeah, maybe you don't support women or good actors or whatever.

No, no, no, no, you don't, exactly. Thank you for bringing it up because I have my own dossier of things I wanted to make clear. Right. And one of them was I don't support women. Women shouldn't be the leads of movies. Sean Fancy coined a new term to describe when Tim goes off, which is movie maga mode. And like, I want to make it clear that movie MAGA mode is basically like a little bit of a nitpick of a movie that most people agree is perfection. I feel like that's what my movie MAGA takes on.

It's not actually right-wing opinions expressed through movie culture. But it's like the tone or tenor, the energy. Tim leans in and says, am I crazy? And then throws out a I'm just asking questions movie take. And am I press? of this? No, but I do think every once in a while, I love an unbridled positivity toward the movie going and movie watching experience. Yeah. And David, I'm going to direct this to you. Oh, yeah. And I don't, Griffin, I should be directing this to you. But every once in a while,

Griffin will refer to a film that is not a masterpiece as a masterpiece. Such as? Any particular that you're thinking of? Well, I don't think I've ever been wrong about this. So I'd love to hear you pull one example. I mean, I feel like, look, this isn't the example, but a thing that has come up recently when we're talking about physical media is, Griffin would just sort of casually be like, oh, the movie Sliver, that's a masterpiece. I don't think Griffin did that. No, but that's not exactly.

Let's cite that as an example of like a God bless it, bad movie. They announce Small Soldiers 4K Steelbook. And I go, obviously, inarguable masterpiece. Yes. And everyone in the group text, agrees with me and we move along. That is, I think that would be an example. Right, and that makes you go movie Mega mode.

Just to give you Bridges 90s, you know, sorry, yeah, we gave you the 90s, but then like the 2000s, I just feel like. He packs. He pacts, he pacts to the wall. That guy's like fucking Joey. Yes or, no, alien? He slips him a piece of paper. Are you an alien, check one? Space is like, I'll never tell.

stuff like Seabiscuit, like door in the floor, which he's really good in. Iron Man, obviously, even like less seen stuff like Tide Land. He's becoming a little bit of elder statesmen. Right. He's entering young grandpa mode. Even if he's first build, he's kind of supporting someone else. And we all support him and love him, but then post Crazy Heart, he has the genuine, like, I guess he's a 60-plus-year-old movie star, right? Like, Crazy Heart, True Grit.

Man, Who's Derek Goats? The Tron Legacy, you know, he's all over that movie, good and bad. RIPD, rounding up the rest in pieces, the giver. We obviously talked about it on the Cohen series, but True Grit and Tron Legacy come out a week apart from each other. They sure do. The two movies are just like burning up the box office together. And Hollywood goes like, I guess he's box office gold now.

And then he has this run of terrible big budget films. Some of them are bad. Seven son, RIPD, giver, all nightmares. Giver, but the Giver is an example of it's like, he had been trying to make that movie for so long and it's only post, like, true grit. Right.

Then he finally has the cloud. He was like, oh, Bruder Giver, you know, and they're like, all right, all right, all right, we'll make it. You know, the crazier thing about the Giver. He read the book when it came out. Excellent book. It's the best book. Options it.

Yeah. And goes, I want to make this as a movie starring my dad. Right. That was his big thing was he wanted Lloyd to play. It was got to be old. Yes. And then eventually he, like, Lloyd had died. He aged into it.

He has an Oscar. He's seen his box office now. And then they fuck up every single aspect of the movie. It's a real bummer. Yeah. And so, you know, he's doing great. I think he's even great. I mean, obviously, Huller High Water was like his sixth Oscar nom.

Yeah. And he rocks in that movie. But you're right. That true, not the true girl. The crazy heart moment was bizarre because there was this feeling of like, oh, I guess we never realized that he's overdue for an Oscar. He didn't have that same kind of narrative to him as like, like when are they going to give it to DiCaprio or Julianne Moore or some of these people?

Because his nominations were spaced out. And it was always a sort of like, oh, right, yeah. And then that movie like premieres at Toronto and everyone's like, fuck. We could just get him the Oscar. This movie is whatever. We could go full court press and he could probably win. And hell or high water, I feel like there's like that last moment where I believe he shoots Ben Foster. Spoilers for the

2012. Ben Foster has never played a character in a movie that would require shooting. Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. No, I would say broadly. Yeah, no, he's always playing a guy who's on the right side of the law. I'd like shake your hand. Let him cook. Ben Foster, just let's hear what he has to say. Yeah. Um, is death a coming? Um, that's a 30 days of night, uh, quote. But I feel like everybody is going to get. Um, masterpiece. Exactly. I'm joking. I've never seen that movie.

You haven't seen it? No. Ben Foster is really good and scary in the opening scene. He's got like a real... He's like, you hear that noise. That's death of comment. And it's so good. I don't know if the movie's great,

but Ben Foster... That's not the kind of line I can picture coming out of his mouth and certainly not with like an accent. He didn't like to do those. The Jeff Bridges' performance in that last moment or in those later... In like that scene in Heller High Water, I feel like is indicative of Jeff Bridges broadly, which is he gives you something that contains three emotions that you, that no one else could do.

Yeah. He finds a way to have a reaction to these situations that feels completely singular and also emotionally true for the entire audience watching it. That's a great way of putting it. And, you know, post crazy heart, all these characters become a lot larger and more over. stated, and he's obviously turned into like a bearded burpin man. But when you see him in interviews present day, the dude is much closer to his bruising altitude as a guy. Yeah.

And then he loves playing these like ornery old coots or whatever, right? Yeah. But this 90s era where he's doing that in a movie like Fearless where I think this movie is excellent. And I'm wondering if this is an episode to coin a term for this kind of thing. but a movie that is uniformly excellent, and yet there is a stretch of it that is like transcendent. Where I think the first 30 minutes of this movie...

To me, the book ends to me. It's the first 30 kind of last 20 are really what I'm doubted to. The first 30, I like can't believe. The first 30 are basically like, why is this film not talked about constantly? Right. I understand like that Schindler's list came out in 1993. Like, or whatever.

But like, why am I not? always hearing about fearless. And then the middle is not bad at all. It is good. It makes sense for the movie it's trying to be or whatever. But it's a little less thrilling, I guess, whatever, you know. And no point does the movie lose me? No.

But the first 30 minutes, I'm, as you're saying, leaning and going like, wait, is this actually one of the best films ever made? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it has a little bit of that picnic at Hanging Rock thing where you're like, what is this mood he's captured? It's so spooky. Right. What is this feeling with such a little bit of. kind of like invisible craft. I cannot think of another movie that

feels like this. And so much of it is him being able to do this, especially in the first chunk where he is inscrutable. Not talking much. It's a while until we backfill kind of who this guy is. And you're just like, what the fuck is motivating his decisions? I

understand he just walked off of a plane crash, but why is he doing this? And you're so locked into everything he's doing because every little moment is like three hyper-specific emotions that are legible without being like overly communicated to the audience, right? He's not doing anything like showy. He's not indicating.

And it's almost like the thing that he gets to, the emotion that he gets to. Yeah. Is the one that in the script is supposed to be there or other, maybe other actors could find their way to. It's just he somehow manages to choose the most interesting path to it. Yeah. Yeah. The film, just to give you the dossier a little bit, like I said, Peter Weir had done Dead Poets Society and Green Card basically back to back because he was trying to get Green Card made, makes Dead Poet Society while he's trying to get that made, and then goes right to Green Card.

And he said he needed a rest. He was apparently covered in French piss. Not sure what's going on there. Do your taxes for you. Here is the trick. You know file. We have not recorded our Green Card episode. I have some ideas. The time we're doing this. I just like, I can't even imagine. That is going to be on... How many piss jokes our listeners will have heard at this point?

It is going to be un-listenable. A movie, a green card, to be clear, a movie I really love and, like, really is a movie that makes me happy. But the other pieces of jokes, it writes themselves. So he's Peter Weir, kind of a wellness king, I'm going to say, kind of a self-healing. Okay. Because he's just like, moving. going back to Sydney and I'm going to chill.

I am going to apparently spend this break reading, swimming, learning French, and tending to my garden. That's right. Taking it easy. And he thinks, exactly. He never moved to L.A. He thinks that like it kind of helped his

directorial eyes stay sharper just to stay out of the scene a little bit. He ended up an unhook from Hollywood. That is true. And he does say this here. Like, it's too bad. I never saw like a 6-5 guy at a gym who was on an HBO show. What do you, 6-6? 6-6. 6. 6. 6 in that little range there.

It's crazy that that's quote in there. Shouts to JJ. You said in 1993 to Premiere magazine. And he doesn't want to make another green card. He's like, Green Card had done, it was successful, it was a direction I didn't want to continue in. I was a little uneasy with the success. I wanted to do something a little more difficult.

Well, Hollywood always wants you to do the thing you just did. Of course. They're going to throw those versions of the script. they've got. He wants to make a rom-com. People are like, you can't make a rom-com. He makes a rom-com well, and they're like, congrats, you've proven it.

Make 10 more rom-coms. Right, right. So he dips his toe back into the, you know, blah, like, situation. He's a big deal director. He's an Oscar nominee. And so he says he says he got sent, I think three, because he got a green card nom too for screenplay. Oh, you're right.

And he got sent a bunch of scripts. He said that were basically like, go pictures, right? Yeah. You're a big shot. Like, what do you want to do? And he was like, these are all suck, like, not interested. Yeah. Nothing edgy, nothing strange.

Everything was clear and logical. Nothing was unconscious. And he said, all these films are out right now. They are films that were made. I'd love to know. Like, you know. But basically, he's like, these are scripts that Hollywood had cleaned up already. You know what I mean?

And I just was bored by, like, whatever notes get put through, you know, the studios. Yeah, yeah. Fearless, however, right, is based, like you said, it's a spec script based on a book that hasn't even come out yet. Raphael Iglesias, father of normal man, Matt Iglesias, had written this book. It was like, I think his seventh book or something. And it's the first draft script and we're as like,

like, thank you. This has not been fucked with. This is weird. He adapts his own unpublished book. Right. Get me this right away. Now, Raphael Iglesis is inspired by, he was in a car accident. A long time, like in the 70s or

whatever and had like walked away, you know, no injuries, shaken up. He's still got that kind of, like, he took him days to readjust to life. He starts getting obsessed with plane crashes, which normal people like me are also obsessed with. Oh, I feel like this really will lead to a, we have to have a sidebar. We're pinning this on the board. It's not a sidebar. It's a sidebar.

It's a satellite plane crash moving. And then he in 89 reads about the notorious United Flight 232 crash. I don't know if you know about it, which is like, a famous crash in aviation history in that like the thing that happened was a one in a million thing like a crazy mechanical failure that fucked up the engines and the hydraulics

so the plane landed but crash landed onto like you know they tried to get it on a runway but not really in like South Dakota or Iowa somewhere and a lot of people died but a lot did not and some people walked out on scale

and other people died it was like a hundred people died, 180 survived, something like, and it is in like a plane crash history, like they have simulated a million times and it's never this been, they've never gotten as good a result. They're like, we don't understand how like this actually went quote unquote so well. But also in an era of newly launched 24 hour news. Yes. I feel like plane crash culture explodes in the 90s, you know? If a plane crash goes wrong, it's like we're, we're staying.

on this beat for days and following it. It just felt like, I don't know, the coverage of these things became a lot louder than it had previously been. I'm sure, for sure. Is Hero the same year as this movie, Stephen Fear's movie? I think that film starred Jet Leigh and came out in 2002,

Griffin. No, I think that film is... Fearless also, by the way, title of a Jet Lee film. Yeah, right. That's right. Not a bad movie. A hero is 92, so the year before.

Okay. A very different movie, but is similarly kind of obsessed with... Yes. What happens to the people who walk off, walk out of a crash alive? Yeah. So, Weir likes the script, has some notes, pretty much immediately, which is kind of his move. Like, that's what he did with Dead Poets Society as well. Initially, he's like, I really thought it was a daring movie, but it's two movies.

The first 25 pages, the original script was straight through, right? So, plain crash, then aftermath. Oh, sure. So the first 25 pages are about the plane crash, how you cope with the knowledge, you're going to die, all this. And then the next part is that. So he's like, no, we're going to intersperse the plane crash throughout, right? Like, we're going to do the structure of the movie, which is basically like start after the crash and then build the flashbacks out a little bit, little by little. Which I think is why the movie works.

Yeah. Because you'd be too overwhelmed if it started with the plane crash. Yeah, and it's too conventional. And it's conventional. What's so striking about the opening? It's about him reaching an emotional realization about what happened to him, right? Right. Like, so it helps to see it.

I mean, another great film about a plane crash, Sully, does basically the same thing. Agreed. But also this movie is about like a rebirth, right? That he walks off, he walks out of this crash feeling like a different person in a way. And so dramatically, the most impactful thing you can do is start the movie with that guy. And then slowly catch up to everyone around him being like, the fuck happened to you. Because the first 30 minutes, he does feel like. like Starman.

Yes. Where you're like, is this a person who's outside of reality? Being in a place before? Yeah. What were we going to say? Hitmaker.

Well, it is like, no. Say it to baby Joey. And who is that? It's the baby from Superman. Your favorite movie of 2025? Oh yeah, that was my favorite movie of 2025. And he did go to Juilliard. And he,

well, you can see. I'm gonna fucking murder you. I think there is something interesting about like, yes, about that. structure and as he gets sort of closer back to real life him remembering more and more of it or whatever the audience learning more and more about it you could also then say he's remembering more and

more of it if that if you want to take that examination of it yeah but also like the the first 25 minutes are a little bit odd to cope with because you realize that he didn't call his wife yes like yeah no i mean that is if i'm his wife I have some notes. I have some questions. Some cues. Wait, you mean to tell me you just went to go visit your college girlfriend? Let's just like speed round, okay?

Movie starts, he's walking through a cornfield. It's like... With a baby. Quiet Warner Brothers logo. And then it's like cornfield, here's Jeff Bridges with a baby. He's very calmly like, who's missing a baby? Hands the baby back. Says goodbye to the child.

Goes to first responders. It's like, I got to get a. a train, gets on a train, meets up with his college girlfriend, orders a bowl of raspberry. Well, he goes to the hotel, and then he takes a shower, realizes that he's got a gash inside. Yeah. That should be, like, stitched.

Like, it's a deep gash. But everyone else is, like, crying and screaming, and he's just like, I need to get to a hotel. Yeah. I need to find my college ex-girlfriend. Check out my chest. Eat the strawberry. She's like, aren't you fucking allergic while she's, like, spiraling about her life has gone awry?

Debramunk, by the way, absolutely crushing that scene. She's so fucking good. Yes. I just love someone like that, like a theater actor who can just come in and be like, I'll give you a full picture of this first. You're really fast. Yes, absolutely. It's out of control into scenes.

I did a short, I did like a short film that of my... Short film. Yeah, well, short film. Shorty's watching shorties. My friend, my friend Dan Bola wrote and directed. He is... SNL. S&L, right?

Yeah. And there was, it's about a guy who thinks he wins the lottery and then just kind of goes off the rails. And at one point, there was a moment in this movie that I really liked that if anybody's ever seen the short film Winners by Dan Bulla, I wonder if it was when he's basically eats the strawberry and he, and she's like, I thought you were, I thought you were allergic and he was like, I'm past all that. There's a moment in winners where somebody says to me, you're not wearing shoes.

And I just say, I'm just say, I'm just. done with shoes. Good. And this is a very deep cut reference, but I really liked that moment just because he was like, it almost feels, you know what it feels like? And I think you should leave sketch. A Tim Robinson character where he's like,

I'm past all that. I'm past all that. People can change. People can change. Mrs. Stoutfire. This guy used to slop up his stakes. Mrs. Stoutfire is also 93. Okay.

So there's two movies about strawberry allergies in 1993. Right, right? Isn't it Mrs. Talfire's strawberries? Right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's, it's 15. I just know the famous quote. Which is, of course, hello. It's 15 minutes before he returns home, but it feels like 30 because the movie is just

operating like out of space and time almost. Very dreamy. But yeah, they find him outside the diner. Yeah. The representative from the airline is like, this is the last guy we haven't been able to track down and do damage control with. Right. And I mean, well, there's the two, there's the guys where he's like, I'm under arrest and they're like, I mean, no, you haven't done anything. No. They're just like, you're just being weird. Do you recognize this man? And it's his, like, the license of his business partner? And he's like, yeah. They're trying to like to ID John Delancey because John Delancey's body was separated from his heads. But also like, is this guy a liability? I mean, that's what's going on?

So much of this movie is the struggling all the insurance companies. and the lawyers and how does all of this get settled? And this guy is just like beyond all of that. Right. And then the, right, the, I love the airline lady being like, so we booked you on Amtrak, of course. And he's like, no, I'll take a plane right now, baby first class. And she's like, okay, like, cool. And she's got to be thinking like, this is so great for us. Yeah. Like, how can he sue us?

Right. Right. Right. Right. That's all of these conversations are everyone walking on pins and needles trying to make sure that there no one's going to say the thing that costs them a hundred million dollars right and they put him on the plane next to john to toro playing a very calm dry this is great casting still man uh him and tom was physically dried yeah like yeah i mean this is like it's a couple years after jungle fever like i think he's mostly at this point still a spike league guy right like and like you know those early would Allen movies that he's in and stuff. But he's done Miller's Crossing already or is that the same?

Miller's Crossing is, yeah, what is that? 90? Yeah, so he's done Miller's Crossing as well as, yeah, God, he's just, so he's just a guy you like to see in a movie. Yeah, but this, I feel like they're coasting off a lot of look into your heart in this. Sure. Of like, right, is this guy a fucking rat? He's, you know, a therapist hired by the airlines to manage the psychological

kind of trauma of the survivors who they kind of sneak onto the plane next to him, Bridges immediately calls him out. And then, like, minute 15, he walks through his front door to his wife and child who he has made no attempt to contact. And everyone is bawling. They're, like, ten family members there. Oh, sure. Tom Holtz is a lawyer. I never thought he's planted.

I didn't even actually make that connection. I thought it was just random. But it makes total sense that, like, they rushed him, like, last minute to get into that seat on that play. Right. But because they're like, this guy says he was. wants to go back on a plane, but like 90% chance the thing takes off and he starts screaming and ripping the chairs out. Totally. Everyone's in such a like intense holding pattern of, right, how do we mitigate this situation? He shows it back home. This is the beginning of him

needing to butt up against the expectation of how he behaves. Everything up until that point in the movie is what's going on with this guy, right? As an audience, but he's kind of like, warping the world around him. The second he's back in his familial home, there's a sense of like, the fuck is up with you. Down to like how calmly he slaps John Taturro. Yeah, there isn't some ramp up,

big explosive, I think you should leave type moment. He just in a very focused way is like, nope, not doing this. There was though a thing that maybe just stuck out a little bit to me. Like, I don't know, I've been kind of, I've only seen it twice and I have kind of gone

back and forth, and it'll come up in all the conversations what we're doing about the emotional, like what's going on emotionally, but there is something a little bit about him slapping John Tatoro that feels maybe out of place in that moment. Well, it's too much. And Tatoro reacts by just being like, I can't help him right now. You know, I'm going to go rather than freak out. But yeah, I mean, but he was just in a plane crash where like half the people died or more. So, like, he can really do anything and no one's really.

going to call him out. That's the big thing. That's not why he's behaving that way, but it's why everyone is walking around on tiptoes around him. It's the post-straubary moment. It's that here's this guy who had this allergy that almost killed him as a child.

And he just goes, like, fuck it. I'm going to try eating a whole bowl and they taste delicious and he has no problems. And there's a part of him that thinks maybe I am dead. This is not real. But even if it is real,

then no rules apply to me anymore. and there's a sense of like testing the boundaries of just I'm going to do like no impulse control whatsoever here. Okay. If this guy's annoying me, I'm going to slap him in the face. And he needs to do something that extreme for everyone around him to go like, what the fuck is going on here? Because everyone up until that point,

especially to Turu who's been sitting next to him, is like, it's actually alarming how calm he seems to be. Look, I mean, if we're doing the end of the movie, like he basically looks into the other world or whatever. And then after that, he's calm. He's like, you know, whatever. He's shed of human feeling.

I feel like that makes the way that you just described, that makes a little bit more sense when I was rewatching it last night. There was a part of me that felt like that was the underneath of it bubbling up too early in the performance. Like the internal thing rather than like an external testing of boundaries. It seemed to mean more like it was revealing what was going on. like that there was this thing underneath him. He has this calm. Yes.

But that it almost feels like that's a little bit too early to show a crack in it. That was the way I read it last night. I think it's more like, we've watched for 15 minutes as this guy is in like accidental vacation mode, right? I'm going to rent a car.

I'm going to stick my head out the window. I'm going to like park it on the side of the road and just sit with my sunglasses on. He's going to rent a car, drive 80 miles on hour with his eyes closed. Right. He's going for it. That's how I am. And his college girlfriend, someone he has this like history with but hasn't seen in decades, right?

Like, none of this is real. None of these are like real interactions that affect his daily life. And I think he's like having a really quick adverse reaction to entering a space where everyone is expecting him to be the guy he was before. And it's sort of like first idea, best idea. Yeah. You know, the way if someone's annoying you. you're like, God, I wish I could hit this guy in the fucking face. And you knock that thought down immediately.

He's like, well, what I'm going to do is him in the face. And Titoro's response is, yeah, cool, make sense. You need to be doing something weird now because you just almost died. But I don't think it's just that he's doing what we all wanted to do, which is give Tertrull slapping a kisser. I mean, I thought about it. I can't deny it. It's that Terturo is picking at something he can't think about. and so he reacts.

He gets angriest, don't you think? Like, you know, he's, he has put it away. He can't think about what happened. When the boy comes to stay with him, because he's like, I just can't stop thinking about how good you were, like, you know, how you helped me. He doesn't want to confront what he did. He doesn't want to talk about what he did.

Right. He's like, I did nothing. Yeah. Again and again, he's just like, no, no, no, no, whatever, whatever. You know, and when he meets Rosie Perez, it's like, he's like, I feel like love for her. Like I'm connected with her in this element. He can't describe why, you know, like he can't talk about the plane crash ever.

She's the other person that he comes across who treats that as the first day of a new life. Sure. But for her, it's she entered hell. It's hell. And he basically entered heaven, right? I mean, this is one of the most spiritual mainstream movies I have ever seen without being religious in any way. It is also like second rewatch. I will say I was like, obviously there are going to be a lot of like,

feel a lot of religious imagery or talk about angels or whatever. But like the first thing, and this is just me not knowing a lot about the Bible, but like the first thing he does walking out of the cornfield with a tiny baby. And the first thing, the first characters that you see are three like field workers kneeling down and crossing themselves. I was like, oh, wait, was this movie, like, much more directly religious than I remember it from the first time?

Right, but I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it's more that, like, the people around him keep trying to put that on him and on the situation, right? And obviously, like, Rosie Perez's character comes from a more religious background. But both of them have, like,

experienced something that goes beyond that. Yeah. that transcends the codex of being able to use this book to process experiences. And that's what their connection is, is like, we're going through different things, but we're the only two people who understand that something changed, and we're not the person those people knew before. Which is really profound.