Blank Check with Griffin & David - Final Thoughts - The Phantom Podcast

Episode Date: May 26, 2015

All great investigations must at some point come to an end, and the case study of the Phantom Menace has (finally) reached it’s conclusion. Listen in as hosts Griffin and David share some last thoughts, read and play clips of fan’s own interpretations and even Produer Ben shares some of his own #hottakes. Also, Griffin unveils a surprise item in this week’s merch corner, what to look forward to in future episodes of Griffin and David Present and lastly a mysterious revelation is uncovered.

🎵 Hello, and welcome to the Phantom Podcast. I'm David Sims. I'm Griffin Newman. This is our final episode. Yeah. What? Of the Phantom Podcast. Because let's get this out of the way.

Don't fret. Right off the bat. Don't fret. The brand that you have come to know and love. In the millions. Griffin and David Presents will be surviving. The easily Google-able, totally marketable David and Griffin brand. Very, very singular and unique.

You might notice on iTunes, we're listed as Griffin David Presents, which has made us difficult for some people to find on iTunes. Yeah, people are like, I keep going Phantom Menace or whatever. Right. I Google Phantom Podcast and I get a podcast about the Phantom, the old radio serial. Guys, you could have gone with my suggestion,

which was Griffon Simsburg. Yeah, that would have been so easy to Google. Yeah, of course. That's the Poet Laureate. That's an autocorrect nightmare. Poet Laureate of the Phantom Podcast, Ben Dusser, aka the Purdue,

or aka Producer Ben. Aka Hello Fennel. Hello F.k.a. HelloFennel. HelloFennel. Yeah. HelloFennel. Oh, well, my God. What a panty dropper that one is. Maybe we should be called HelloFennel.

We could be called HelloFennel. That might be easier to Google. I'll contact iTunes. So we were talking about how do we keep the show going, and there were a lot of ideas, things we thought we wanted to spotlight, do podcasts about, some longer form, some one-off episodes. Yeah. And I had a breakthrough last week.

We went to go see Mad Max Fury Road, and I showed up. I was experiencing severe hay fever. You were covered in hives. Hives. I had hives all over my necks and arms. Yep. My necks. Both of my necks.

Yep, two necks. Like, phode and bead. You had grown another neck as well. I'd grown another neck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that neck had a head that only spoke Huttese. And, hey, nailed it. And my

eyes were bloodshot and I felt terrible. But I said, I cracked the code. You did. You were very excited. I said, a lot of these things we pitched about doing a podcast about have a through line. I realized that is what attracted us to the Phantom Mass in the first place. And is the kind, what someone does when they're given complete creative freedom.

Yeah, or they have a lot of Hollywood capital to spend on a sort of a passion project maybe. Yes. You know what my dad used to call it? My dad and I used to call it the get out of jail free card. Right. So it's like, there's this idea that if in Hollywood they have, you know, short memories. Yes. So if you fail, it doesn't matter how many in Hollywood they have, you know, short memories. Yes. So if you fail, it doesn't matter how many times you succeeded before that you're out.

Yeah. But sometimes you have a success that's so big, you get a get out of jail free card. Yeah. So you can make one wild folly, one extreme passion project. Sometimes they turn out well. And sometimes you get to make a bunch of them. Like sometimes Hollywood just keeps forgetting like the Wachowski brothers, you know, like Wachowski siblings. If it's that big. Yeah. Sometimes you just keeps forgetting the Wachowski brothers, or Wachowski siblings.

If it's that big. Yeah. Sometimes you just keep getting handed the keys to something. You keep on getting get-out-of-jail-free cards. Often you just get the one. Right. The idea is that you can flop that big because you know they'll give you one more chance afterwards.

You get out of movie jail. They take you out of movie jail, and they take you off the bench. We're fascinated by that. A lot of, when we talk about projects, we always talk about the context of, remember, this is what they were coming off of. And, you know, of course, George Lucas coming off the massive success of THX 1138, American Graffiti, and maybe one movie in between.

And he'd been a producer for films. Produced Indiana Jones. That was a big franchise. Yeah, that's a good movie. That's a good movie. Yeah, I like that movie. But as we've talked about a lot, the Hasbro toy company paid $100 million

for the rights to this film. So he had complete creative control. He was working outside the studio system. They trusted him implicitly. And that was what was fascinating to us is this movie was not fettered by the studio heads coming in, the mucking about, going to change this, change this.

He made exactly what he wanted to make. And I think for us, that's fascinating when someone, when all the chips are down and they go, I'm finally getting to make something the way I want to. And a couple of times it's resulted in some of my favorite pieces of art ever. Yes. Are you thinking of anything in particular? There's one movie I'd really like to cover, my favorite movie of all time. I think we'll save it for later. Yeah, we'll save that for later.

My favorite movie of all time falls into that category squarely. And you have never seen it. No, I've never seen it. Yeah, so I want to do an episode. To make it clear that we're not always just going to shit on stuff. Yeah, no. And we also went into this thinking we were going to love. We thought we were going to crack it.

There are things we liked that maybe have now just been tarnished beyond repair. But, you know, we definitely originally liked this movie. You can remember the good times. You go back and remember the good times. Yeah. The best one yet. Yeah.

But our point is it's not just going to be like, oh, movies that flopped or movies that failed or trying to. We're going to talk about. No, no, no. This is what fascinates us. It's when someone has all the clout and the heat to make exactly what they want. Yeah. And how it turns out. Because I guess it's an idea people go, oh, art, business, commerce mixes in, the executives, da-da-da-da-da. A lot of times when someone's given complete artistic control, it's a disaster.

Oh, no. But it's never bland or boring or Hollywooded to death. I mean, hell, we saw Mad Max last week, and there's a perfect example. It went right. Yeah. But, you know, something that could have easily just been

a total spectacle of folly. But instead, good job, George. If Fury Road had come out 10 years ago, we would definitely be doing a podcast about it. Yes. Oh, my God. It would be right in our wheelhouse. And that's a movie,

why did he get to make that? Because of Happy Feet. Seriously, because Happy Feet was so successful. Yeah. Well, Happy Feet 2 didn't do as well. But he was already good to go.

You're right. Happy Feet was such a surprise, profitable, and Oscar winning hit for DreamWorks. It was for Warner Brothers. For Warner Brothers. Who did not an animation department. Right, right, right, right.

Who also produced Mad Max. Mad Max, yeah. And it was, at the time of its release, one of the 10 highest grossing films that Warner Brothers had ever released. That's crazy. Including six Harry Potter movies. Happy Feet is, by the way, not a good movie,

but has a great... I don't like that movie, personally. I'm very conflicted. Has a great opening 20 minutes. When he's a baby, it's so good. Yeah. When he's Elijah Wood

or whatever, eh. Well, Happy Feet would have worked better, the Fury Road version, where it was like, let's just keep it to one thing, and just do the shit

out of this one thing. Like, the great thing about Fury Road is it's just one fucking chase as a movie. These episodes come out a little later, so just to make it clear. Yeah, sorry guys. The time that we're recording this, it's been like five days since Mad Max came out and a week since we saw it together and we still can't get over it. Exactly.

I can't wait to see it again. I've seen it twice now. The only reason I haven't is because I went to a wedding this weekend. I saw it a second time. And I almost tried to round the wedding party into like, come on guys, let's sneak in a screen. But it didn't happen. But don't you think if Happy Feet was just like singing and dancing with penguins and

there was only like three sections where they slowed down and had dialogue, much like Fury Road, it would be a better movie? But I also think it has the problem that Lion King has where it's like you only want one version of the protagonist. You don't like it when he's grown up. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. The early Lion King is the best's like you only want one version of the protagonist. You don't like it when he's grown up. I agree. Yeah.

Everyone, yeah, the early Lion King is the best part of it. It is. And the later part of the Lion King is only watchable because of everyone else.

At that point, you're not very interested in the main character anymore. We're doing a great job of not talking about the Phantom Menace at all right now. Let's talk about the Lion King.

That movie is not good. Lion King, I agree, is very flawed. It's a really, really, yeah, shoddy movie with some like... It's got some great movie with some transcendent bits and pieces. And a generally very clever eye towards making a movie that children will be obsessed with. Much like Frozen.

Yes. Frozen, I love. Frozen. Frozen. Like Frozen. I call it Frozen. Frozen, I love a lot more than Lion King, but I also think it's a flawed movie. Yeah.

Frozen, it came off the vine so quickly for me. I watched it again and I was like, oh, I don't... Both of those movies have that weird alchemy, though. There's an X factor that kind of... It transcends and covers up its flaws by how well it works when it works and how exciting the basic themes are. It takes you by the hand and kind of...

And also just every child I know knows about Frozen, even if they haven't seen it. They know everything about it. It's incredible. It's like that incredible osmosis where they just know child I know knows about Frozen, even if they haven't seen it. They know everything about it. It's incredible. It's like that incredible osmosis where they just know. They know. Yeah. Getting back to what this podcast is ostensibly about.

Adam's Family Values? Yeah. I love Adam's Family Values. Can we do one on that? Because that's literally one of my favorite movies. Yeah, I would happily do that. Eat me. That wasn't me telling that.

That was a Pugsley reference. That's an AFV poll for any of you AFV fans out there. So the podcast is going to continue. We're going to cover other things. We've gotten a lot of suggestions from fans. We've talked about a lot of things. I think by popular demand, our hands are tied. We've got to do Judging the Judge.

I get 50 tweets a day about this. Judging the Judge. No, I don't get 50. So you might think we're joking, but... Judging the judge is coming up. Yeah, so here's the idea. Right now, this is, you're listening to the season finale of the Phantom Podcast. Woo!

Looks like we made it. We're going to take a little break. Not a long break. No. Really a brief break. Early June, we're going to drop a bonus episode. This is for diehards only. Yeah.

David and I have both watched the Phantom Mass too many times now. Yes, it is exactly too many times. But we have not watched it together. That's true. So we're going to get some burrs. We're going to turn on an old Mikey phone. Yep. And we're going to record a full commentary for The Phantom Mass.

None of you will listen to it. It'll be great. Yeah. Ben's not even going to join us for that one. No. Ben is not going to

join us for that one. He doesn't want to. Give you guys the mics and just let you have it. He's going to say goodbye fennel to that one.

Oh yeah. And yeah you at home will be able to sync up our commentary there. Just two sad defeated men. Yeah.

No but it'll be good because it'll be like a goodbye like a Viking funeral. Hopefully it'll be the last time that we ever watch the movie. No, definitely not. I'm definitely going to watch it again. And if I have kids, they're going to fucking watch the movie. It's going to be unavoidable. Early June, commentary episode.

Then we're coming back a week or two after that with Judging the Judge. It's 100% happening. Yeah, I'm going to have to watch the movie The Judge. I'm really excited. It's great. It's terrible. So if you subscribe, if you're subscribed to Griffin David Presents, it will just be a continuous podcast.

Judge and the Judge. We will have a new title in terms of how we present it. The artwork will be different, but it will be the same fucking podcast. Wherever you listen, it will be right there in the same place. Yeah. And then after that, I don't know. We'll see after that. We're going to, yeah, we'll figure something out. We'll figure it out.

But we'll keep the theme going of grand follies or wild successes coming off of massive successes what people do when they're given complete freedom judging the judge fits that because David Dobkin had just made Fred Claus did he make something in between he made the change up which was a big flop

my take on it is that it's Downey Jr. coming off the heat of the Avengers being able to make whatever he wants the change up is another movie I never saw that it's Downey Jr. coming off the heat of the Avengers movies. I know. Being able to make whatever he wants. The Change-Up is another movie I never saw, but it's really bad, right? It's bad. That's the one with Ryan Reynolds and Jason Bateman, Peanut Pool. Yeah. I think I've seen every David Dobkin movie, which is astounding because I like zero David

Dobkin movies. You don't even like Clay Pigeons? Is that the one he- It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. Shanghai Nights is bad. Wedding Crashers is bad.

Mr. Woodcock? Never seen that. He did reshoots on it. Okay. But I haven't seen it either. Okay. That movie was taken away from its director,

Craig Gillespie, who also directed Lars and the Real Girl and Fright Night 3D. He has the weirdest filmography in the world. Fright Night is so good. I think Lars and the Real Girl

is incredibly overrated. I like some of it. Fright Night's really good and Colin Farrell deserved an Oscar nomination. It's not like people are going around saying Lars and the Real Girl is the best, and I still think it's really overrated. Yeah. But back to the matter at hand. The Phantom Menace.

Star Wars. Star Wars. Star Wars. Star Wars. Episode 1. One episode. The Phantom Menace. It was supposed to be part of a big sci-fi saga, and it never got off the ground.

As we all know, there's only one of these movies. And that's what's fascinating to us is it's a dead end. We started this podcast, not this episode, but oh, lone nine episodes ago. We started this with one explicit goal. Answer one question. So simple. Answer one question. Is it simple?

We thought so. Much like Sarah Koenig, we thought answering one question was going to be easy. That's still going on, by the way. Yeah. They got some J testimonial. I don't know. I don't care about Sarah. And what's crazy is we answered her question on our first episode. Of course, yeah. We know

the answer. Yeah, Anon's guilty. No question. We can lock him away forever. Anon and Jay did it together and they're both guilty. That's why the stories don't make sense because each of them has half the story because they're trying to... No, I understand. I fully... Anon was involved, Jay was involved.

Right, and the stories don't match up with anything because each of them kind of has half the information but they have to cut out the parts where they were involved. Dumb. Stupid. Dumb. Anon and Jay are dumb. We've come in with one question that we thought was easier to answer and we failed entirely. Yeah.

What is Star Wars Episode I The Phantom Menace about? We did fail. I mean, we would always come we'd brush against it, maybe. We'd have a theory that had some grounding, but we'd never... But I feel like a lot of our answers were delivered in this tone. Da-da-da-da. So what do you... The Phantom Mass is about...

trades? What do you think the movie's about or should we wait? Do we have final takes? Do you have a final take? I might have a final take. Alright, so let's read other people's. This is our viewer mailbag episode. We reached out to some of our friends. We opened the floodgates to some of our loyal listeners. Yeah.

And we said, send us your audio. Send us your text. Let us know what you think the Phantom Mass is about. And so we're going to outsource today and hopefully come up with an answer. So let's do this one first. Let's do Dane Hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say.

Dane Hurt sent us this message. What was The Phantom Menace about? Trade negotiations. All caps, I think. Six or seven exclamation points. Seven exclamation points. What did George Lucas care about more than anything his whole life? Getting fucking toys delivered to people in time for Christmas.

I want to, before I read the sentence, make it very clear that these are Dane's words because I already have. And we do not endorse. And I already have a bad track record with race relations on this podcast. Specifically. Yeah, go on. Dane says, those greedy Asians were always trying to blockade his shit. And once he had to sell an empty box for Christmas with essentially IOUs for the toys. Don't know what that's in reference to.

Interesting. I'm sure, Dane, you're being, I'm sure I'm going to give Dane the benefit of the doubt, and he's speaking from George's perspective here. There is not one scene in the whole plot that does not directly revolve around trade and the negotiations that accompany it. Even Qui-Gon scamming Wado with the Chance Cube

is a trade negotiation. That's true. Good point. Thanks, and may the blessings of Gra negotiation. That's true. Good point. Thanks, and may the blessings of Gra Gra be with you. So kind. That's the kindest thing you could ever say to anybody. Of course. P.S. for the record, I don't think Asians are greedy, but George Lucas apparently does. No, I assumed Dane was, yeah.

Speaking from George's perspective. I don't know if everything is a trade negotiation, but he kind of has a point because you've got the Naboo Gungan settlements. That's a negotiation there. And it probably involves trade.

You've got, like you say, Qui-Gon's excellent slave acquisition. Yep. So good at slave acquisition. The best. If he had a resume, it would be like, what are you good at? Lightsaber? Okay. Yeah. So-so. The only one who's better is Sebulba.

And also all the other pod racers, because apparently they're all fucking scoundrels. Yeah, the whole pod. All right, so you know. So he's saying that here's a movie funded by merchandise. That's what I like, that he's tying it back into that. The reason the movie exists is because of merchandise sales. And that's what George is grinding his axe about in that great opening crawl that we all know and love. The wonderful opening crawl. The best.

Such a smart way to open a movie. So good. Yeah. And, yeah, if it was an art film, most people would leave. Yeah. You know, if it was at the Cannes Film Festival, most people would just be like,

no, no, no, thank you. No. What are you doing here? So, thank you, Dane. That was good. That was great. Here's Mike Ryan. Oh, Mike Ryan.

You're a former entertainment writer for African Post. Now he works for Uproxx. And Screen Crush? He used to work at Screen Crush. He's like one of the premieres. Yeah, he's a great film writer. He writes about SNL. Love you, Mike.

We follow each other on Twitter. We follow each other, too. We made a good trade the other day on the Star Wars card trader app. And I run Mike. We follow each other on Twitter. We follow each other, too. We made a good trade the other day on the Star Wars card trader app. And I run into him at Junkin's once in a while.

I did. Hi, Mike. Talking Mike. All right. It's not a long. No. This is not. Yeah.

We've talked more about Mike than he wrote about the Phantom Mass. Which is good. Brevity. Hey. Hey, brevity's the soul of it. He wrote, it's about an elaborate and convoluted scheme to get Senator Palpatine elected chancellor.

All right. Now, this is interesting. Now, he's absolutely on the money here. I know exactly what he means because everything, you know, the end of the movie, what happens? I believe he gets elected chancellor. He does. Valorum, there's a vote of no confidence what spurs all of that

this crisis in Naboo and what spurs the crisis in Naboo the trade and confederation being told to do this by the Sith and what you know

why are the Jedi sent in because of the blockade you know like it's all doop doop doop doop dominoes falling doop, doop,

dominoes falling, Palpatine elected. If that's the case, though, the movie is total failure because we barely see Palpatine and who cares? We're not arguing about whether or not the movie works. Yeah, no, I know.

We're asking what it's supposed to be about. He's right. That is probably the biggest arc that covers the most of the movie. Let's go back to the title. What's it called? The Phantom Menace. Should be called the Holographic Menace.

Right, but who's that holograph? It's Darth Sid. And who does that dude look a lot like? Grogor? No. Oh, Palpatine. What if it was Grogor, though? Oh, God.

What if he had that classic Grogor mouth? Yeah. No, you're right. He's the Phantom Menace behind the scenes working to get Palpatine elected Chancellor so that who knows who knows

we don't get to see the rest we don't know but I do think that was the Phantom Menace was this idea Palpatine puts on a cloak gets Darth Maul

out of their fucking studio apartment onto the terrace and is like yo you gotta get out there and get some shit done. Why? Because he's just trying to clear up everything.

It's a brilliant ploy by him because he's playing his own side against his other side. He's playing Palpatine's Naboo against Sidious' Trade Federation. He's talking out both sides of his mouth because he's going to the Asians and he's going, hey, block the trades. And then he's going to the Asians and he's going, hey, block the trades. And then he's going. The Asians. Yeah. And then he's going to the Senate and he's like, I don't know what I can do.

And the Valorum's like, I'm out of here. And he's like, I guess I got to take. I don't know. The way he humbly accepts the role. He's like, I would never have thought he knew. It's what 9-11 truthers accused George W. Bush of doing. Sure. A false flag.

Yes. Just so he can solve it and be the hero. Right, right. Why? So you can ascend to power and become an evil motherfucker. Yeah. Maybe? I don't know.

Just, yeah. Mike Ryans, a significant other. Kate Erbland, who's also a great film writer. Oh. It's not included here in this packet we have. Hey, Kate. Because she emailed me directly. Didn't listen to my directions.

Whatever. Love you, Kate. I't listen to my directions. Whatever. I told her to email us at Grifflin Simsburg. Kate is the coolest. She's a film writer. You should check out her shit all over the place. She writes for The Dissolve. She writes for Vanity Fair sometimes. She's the best.

She's been writing for... Here's what she wrote to us. Opening sentence, I am really worried about you guys. Yep, fair enough, Kate. Yep, good point. I'll see you soon. Here is my hot take.

And hot take, of course, has a hashtag. Yep, one word. I don't know what The Phantom Mass is about because I've never watched it. Crazy. Yep, because when the movie first hit theaters, even my then-teen brain could recognize that it wasn't for me. I think I may have said to a friend, this ain't for me.

I do know, however, that Jar Jar Binks is in it, and he sounds extra horrible. The Phantom Menace is about Jar Jar Binks and thus about horrible stuff. That's the whole thing? Yeah. Nail the cake. Yeah, that's the thing. It's horrible. It's just horrible. Yeah, but I had to read it, because it's like someone who hasn't seen thing? Yeah. Nail the cake. Yeah, that's the thing. It's horrible. It's just horrible. Yeah, but I had to read it because it's like someone who hasn't seen it. Yeah.

Her take is as spot on as anyone else's take. Yeah, it's about a bunch of horrible things. It is ostensibly about Jar Jar. Sort of. Because Mike's point is it's about Palpatine. But we argue it doesn't do that well. I do think that's what it's trying to be about and doesn't execute it well. That's what the actual plot of the movie is about.

George might say that's what it's trying to be about and doesn't execute it well. That's what the actual plot of the movie is about. George might say that's what it's about if you asked him. But if you watch it, Jar Jar is such a prominent part of the film that it feels like it's about Jar Jar. You keep on expecting that it pays off in some larger way with Jar Jar. It's a dumb movie and I fucking hate it. All right. How about Lux or Ramona? Let's read Lux here. Lux Alptrom, a long-time listener.

Follow her on Twitter. Hey, Lux. And good friend. Good friend. I should mention that, too. But the fact that people listen to the podcast for me now overshadows the fact that they're my friends in real life. Agreed. The Phantom Mass is a complex tale of the depths a man past his prime will sink to in a misguided attempt to mine the nostalgia of an entire

generation for profit. Is she saying that's Palpatine's plan? I'm sure. I'm very confused at this. She thinks that Palpatine is trying to mine the nostalgia. So maybe growing up. Nostalgia for science fiction, I'm sure she means. There was another trade blockade and so Palpatine's doing another trade blockade.

I don't get this one, but yeah. No, I know what she's talking about. The trade blockade. And so Palpatine's doing another trade blockade. I don't get this one. But yeah. No, I know what she's talking about. The trade blockades. Yeah. Well, thank you, Lux. Let's do an audio clip. Let's mix it up.

Because we've got a couple audio clips here. This is from the great Christopher Compton. And he wrote in, drops mic, realizes he was using his phone as his mic, picks up mic and checks it for scratches. This is a funny intro. That's it. This is a funny intro. I like it. And here is his audio clip.

So let's take it away. Ben Dusser. I think this is a movie about kids and the power of kids. at the storylines of the movie here, we have a very young boy who earns his own freedom from slavery by winning an impossible race. We have a very young girl who is somehow queen of her own planet. And we have set up as the villain of the movie, we have an old man who play-acts as an even older man when he is in his evil form. I think this theory also

explains the presence, the omnipresence of Jar Jar Binks, who, when you think about it, in the theater, seems to offend and repulse all adult members of the audience while having zero negative effect on children in the audience, which I think goes to show who's meant to be celebrated by this movie.

So I like this a lot. The children are our future is essentially the take. Yeah. Because you've got yourself Anakin. Yeah. He's got some bright future ahead of him. You've got Amidala. She's solving a planet's

whole problem. I mean, George is making this point, too, that maybe children are more equipped to deal with our problems than adults. Why not elect a preteen?

Children can have an angle on things. Yes. Like, Amidala arrives at the Senate, and they're like, oh, committee hearing. Yeah.

And she's like, no. I believe she says, committee hearing. Committee. I think she says committee. Yeah. Yeah. I know she says it And she's like, no. I believe she says committee hearing. I think she says committee. Yeah. Yeah. I know she says it.

She's like, no, no. Vote of no confidence. Now, she has been manipulated into that position by Palpatine, but.

But he's the gross old man. That's the point. He's the villain of the piece. We shouldn't trust the elders. The children are our future. Old, old, old. Bad, bad, bad. And George.

And Corrigan's a big old piece of shit. He's a big old piece of shit. He's a slave owner. Compi is a very accomplished actor and storyteller himself. He's been writing this big fantasy saga for like the last 15 years. He started writing this thing as a child that has grown in mythos. He's created his own universe, more expansive than the Phantom Menace universe.

Okay. And like once a year he will perform this story. It's like a free form story of the land and everything. Right. So he spent a lot of time sort of creating and analyzing the nature of mythology. Grand mythology.

And I think he has a really, really smart take here. It is for kids. And George, when people complain about the Phantom Menace he goes like, well, adults are taking it

too seriously. It's a movie for kids. He does that a lot lot he says that a lot that's fair so that Jar Jar is very childlike Jar Jar is very child I thought that's what he was building up to Jar Jar definitely appeals to children because I think he is like a child yeah and the way

that the other goon gins treat Jar Jar is reminiscent to how an adult like teacher would penalize like Jar Jar they would be like Jar, you're in trouble. So you should be in charge of our whole army. Right. Jar Jar's like the class clown.

And sometimes the way you deal with the class clown is you make him the line leader. That's very good. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Giving them responsibility. Maybe that will focus their energy there. You're going to be saltine distributor. Griffin, were you saltine distributor?

No, I was usually line leader because I was the class con. They were like, you have to lead people in a positive way. Saltine distributor, though. That wasn't the title. It was snack giver. I don't know. My school had jobs. Yeah.

I went to a war camp. No, you didn't. I know where you went to school. It was no war camp. This was my elementary school. Oh, okay. Okay, fair enough. I said work camp. Oh, work camp, to school. It was no war camp. This was my elementary school. Oh, okay. Okay, fair enough. I said work camp.

Oh, work camp, yeah. But it was a war camp as well. Ramona had. Oh, Ramona. Great friend. Can I say something? So most of the people we've read from are people I know to some degree in real life or at least online or whatever.

A lot of them, I can say, have only been re-watching the movie because of listening to this podcast. I know. We made a lot of people watch this movie. A couple of them I don't think had seen it before. That's crazy. Yeah. And so these are hot takes of people really getting into the movie with clear eyes.

With an analytical eye. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of them not having seen it since they were children. Yep. Some of them not having seen it at all. And watching it from the get-go. And some of them being professional critics. Yeah.

Like Kate or Mike. Yeah. Kate, who notably still hasn't seen the movie. Good job, Kate. But thank you for the recent trade on the CarTrader app. Thanks. Going into it with our question in mind from the get-go. Yeah.

They're watching and trying to solve it, and I think it shows because all these people are coming up with really good answers. Ramona, great friend, says, I think Phantom Menace is about Queen Amidala and her image as a queen of the people. In the middle, there is an extensive pod racing scene in the desert.

The pod racing is the hardest thing to tie into the rest of the movie. Well, I think Ramona's point's good because she does reconcile the pod racing by just saying that there is podracing and making its own independent statement. I think Femmas is about Queen Amidala and her image as a queen of the people. Now, this is kind of interesting because the movie definitely is about public appearances, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's where the whole decoy thing comes in. Mm-hmm. And that's where the whole decoy thing comes in.

Mm-hmm. And that's where Palpatine's manipulation comes in. Yes. And that's where TC-14 being like, these are some Jedis. Fucking hottest shit in the world. The hottest piece in the galaxy. She knows they're Jedis

because they're public presentation as hobo people with laser swords. Right, but they do... But they do... When they come in, they go, oh, hey, we're here. What do they say? They're diplomats? Yeah, we're negotiators. Right, but they do, when they come in, they go, oh, hey, we're here. What do they say? They're diplomats? Yeah, we're negotiators, whatever. Right, right.

But it's like, oh, the hunt for Forlom, the newest bounty enzer, is now available for Master Access and the card trader. Forlom, another extended universe. How do you get Master Access? You have to pay money, which I refuse to do. I've only done it like 12 times.

No, I've done it like four times, which is too much. I spent like $5 on this app. But I have a very clear cap. Yeah, I do think it is a lot about images. There's a lot in the film about reputations preceding people, people putting on different airs, pretending to be different things, all this stuff. And even when Qui-Gon's negotiating with Wado, I think he doesn't let on that he's a Jedi at first

because then when he does the Jedi, the hand wave, he's like, no, it's Toydarian, doesn't. Yeah. You know? So it is about images, definitely. Let's read. I hate that scene because Wado's like, what are you, some kind of, like, you're acting like you're a Jedi.

Like, maybe he is a Jedi, Watto. Like, do your homework. Don't fucking negotiate with this guy. Don't act like you're so smart when you're actually saying the dumbest thing in the world. Out comes Razor. If a guy's doing a Jedi mind trick, maybe it's because he's a Jedi. Yeah, that's like Three's Company level. Like, just ignoring what's in front of you just to move the plot along.

Like, you better not be dating these women. Exactly. Nathan Wagner. The great Nathan Wagner. I like saying people are the great, if you haven't noticed. Yeah, TV's Nathan women. Exactly. Nathan Wagner. The great Nathan Wagner. I like saying people are the great, if you haven't noticed. Yeah, TV's Nathan Wagner. TV's Nathan Wagner. Also, I believe known as Nathan Swagner.

He's a longtime caller in The Chris Gathard Show, our favorite TV show in the world. Yep. Thank you for listening and writing in. He writes, I'm probably late on this. No, he's not. But here's my take on Star Wars Episode I. I think The Phantom Menace is all about working together. Huh.

Okay. Every character has their own major flaw or setback in the movie. Jar Jar's clumsy. Obi-Wan never does anything. That's a pretty big setback. Captain Panaka is boring. Major setback. Yeah, and that's a plot point in the film.

People go, like, Panaka, you are putting me to sleep. Panaka bores people regularly to sleep, and it causes problems. People go, like, Panaka, you are putting me to sleep. Yeah, no, Panaka bores people regularly to sleep, and it causes problems. We don't have an army, and they're like, Panaka, get some fucking charisma. But throughout the movie, no one in the main group of heroes calls the other one out on their problems. Interesting. That's true. There is no conflict

internally. Yep. Yeah. Qui-Gon just accepts that Jar Jar is going to bumble around and still lets him be part of the group. He never seems happy with it, but he also never is like, okay, Jar Jar, you're out. Yeah, it's true. And this kind of answers our question as to why they bring Jar Jar and R2 with them

to Mos Espa, because we're always like, what game? It doesn't answer the question, but at least gives some grounding for maybe why Qui-Gon wouldn't just say to him, like, stay in the spaceship. We don't need you. Going back to Nathan's words here, by allowing each other to work together,

they overcome the hardships as a group. Also, I just want to say thank you for this podcast. I love it, and you did a great job creating content from a single movie. I agree. That's what we're here to do. We're here to create content. Thank you. I like that.

So they're all working together. It's like, okay, so you've got Amidala, but she's on her own in Naboo struggling, you know, with a boring security chief and a griping bearded advisor. Sal Bibble. Yeah, but it's all these old people who can't relate to her and they're like telling her what to do. So she's struggling and she needs to meet up with the Jedi who can give her enough initiative maybe to make a bold move such as leaving the planet to try and convince the Senate

of her whatever plight. And tying into Ramona's take, it's such a burden for her to keep up this appearance of being this regal, mature queen with these big head dresses. Regal. But when she teamed up with the Jedi, suddenly it's like, oh no, this is his handmaid. Yeah. And she's allowed to just kick it.

Yeah, she kicks it. Yeah. And she's allowed to just kick it. Yeah, she kicks it. Yeah. And it's the same for Jar Jar. Jar Jar's arc is banished, clumsy. Yeah. Meets up with the Jedi. Yeah. And they figure out what he's good for, which is, I guess, being clumsy in a good way, I

suppose. And then they meet Anakin. Anakin, not mentioned here, has a significant setback in the movie, which is that he was born into slavery. Yep. And yet... He overcomes it by becoming a piece of shit. A little piece of shit, a little turd.

But he's free, ostensibly, only because his slave owner dies. Wait, Anakin? His slave owner doesn't die. Yeah, Qui-Gon. Oh. Don't you remember he trades hands? That's correct. Yeah, Qui-Gon. Oh. Right. Don't you remember? He trades hands.

That's correct. But then Yoda has that talk with Obi-Wan where he's like, I guess you'll take care of the boy. So I guess at the end, the deed is just transferred over. Right, but it may be over. That's true. We don't know because we'll never know.

Do Qui-Gon have a will? We don't know. Yeah. We don't know, and unfortunately there's not a sequel, so we'll never know. Yeah. But great take, Nathan Swagner. All these takes don't know. Yeah. We don't know. And unfortunately, there's not a sequel, so we'll never know. Yeah. But great take, Nathan Swagner.

All these takes are really good. Okay. I think we have another audio clip. Yeah. Let's play Miles Robbins here, the great Miles Robbins. He's a friend of the show and a friend of real life. Once again, a person I went to high school with. Okay.

And have become closer with recently because of the podcast. That's nice. He started reaching out to me after the podcast aired. Surprised by how much he liked it. And has been re-watching Phantom Menace obsessively. That's very heartwarming. Yeah, and now we've been hanging out more.

But, yeah. Here is my interpretation of what the Phantom Menace is about. I think that The Phantom Menace is about the fact that others are weird or bad more often than not. There's not a single alien character in the film who is helpful to the protagonist and also not a Gungan. And therefore clownish and condescendingly portrayed. You know, I mean, you've already discussed at length that the Trade Federation is a bunch of evil Chinamen, that Watto is a greedy Jew, that Sebulba is a smoker who is also

a slave owner. I mean, Yoda just kind of talks a lot of shit, like doesn't really offer good advice. Um, you know, when there's a corrupt bureaucrat whispering in the ear of the chancellor, it like just happens to be the blue guy with the fallacies. Um, and you kind of notice that the humans tend to hang with the humans and,, and the others hang with the others. I think there's only one time we see an alien hanging out with a human, and it's Watto, and he's with Warwick Davis at the Padres. But that can also be arguably interpreted as dwarves belong with the weird aliens, which is kind of further, furthering the

offensiveness of the idea. Um, I think that the only chill alien characters in the movies are the, uh, are the movie. Um, there's two announced, the two announcers I think are neutral and Anakin is friends with like a baby Rodian who, which is the green, you know, I've read somewhere that there's a character named Greedo, somewhere in the, you know, fan fiction. And,

yeah, so they're Rodians. Yeah, so there's this little baby Rodian, and he just kind of like moves his arms around. So, I don't think he's really a significant enough character to consider him to be like on the good guy side and also, um, you know, relatable. Like there's no aliens who are relatable. It's like the humans are us and then the other things are weird and scary or strange or annoying or silly. Um, but there's like no, um But there's, like, no...

There's no, like, understanding or empathy for the alien characters. Like, they're always others. So I think that The Phantom Menace is about, like, how, like, you stay with your kind, and I'll stay with my kind. So it's racism, basically, is what The Phantom Menace is about. I like that.

I agree. It's a xenophobic piece of shit movie is what you're saying. Yeah. Cause we've been wrestling with the, the, um, how to get to racism street, how to get to racism street,

but also just these creaky stereotypes that the movie is like throwing in our face. And it's like, what larger point is he trying to make? And miles came with a clear through line, which is all the humans in the film either, uh, have regal, uh, uh, British accents. They speak like, to make. And Miles came with a clear through line, which is all the humans in the film either have regal

British accents. They speak like graduates of RADA. Yeah, they're like BBC newscasters. Yeah. Or they just have these like mid-Atlantic accents, like all the American characters in the film. Right, like Anakin or

Padme. Padme. Padme. Not Queen like Anakin or... Padme. Padme. Padme. Padme. Not Queen Amidala. Padme Nibiru. Not Padme Amidala. No, Padme Nibiru.

But the aliens are all gross. And he was saying... Except for the Gungans. And they are gross, but they're helpful gross. They're gross, but they're little babies. They spit and they slobber.

They're friendly little babies. They're little babies. So they're othered asbber. They're friendly little babies. They're little babies. So they're othered as well. Completely othered. To Miles' point, Jar Jar is a fuck-up. He's a pain in the ass in the movie. He's not a bad guy, but he causes a lot of damage and ultimately only saves the day by causing accidental damage that is positive. Correct.

So it is like, well, the other is either stupid or evil. Correct. So it is like, well, the other is either stupid or evil. Yeah. Jar Jar's stupid. He means well, but he's stupid. Big old stupid face. Everyone else is evil and conniving. George Lucas clearly has weird issues that he hasn't dealt with.

But here's a good point to offer a little correction. Weeks back I had mentioned that I thought that the seeming racism of the film was at odds with the fact that George Lucas was such a big supporter of African-American rights. And made the film Red Tails because he felt like a black history was not represented as much in the media as white history. And he hired a black director for it. He made efforts to make people of color be represented in that film, not just in the cast. It was a passion project. He was originally going to build

large sound stages in California. I feel like there's a but coming, though. Well, he didn't get the zoning for it. His neighbors didn't approve, so he instead, with this land he has, decided to turn it into an affordable house. Oh, yeah, no, I heard about that, which is great. Yeah.

He does a lot of great shit. And I said that he is married to an African-American woman. Right. Which is correct. Okay. At the time, I believe, said, I think she's the editor of Jet Magazine. I think you did say that, or Ebony Magazine. You said either Jet or Ebony.

Yep. Turns out she's one of the most successful venture capitalists in the world. So you're just an idiot. I'm an idiot and a racist. I mean, is it racist to assume that a black person would be in charge of Jet Magazine? No. No. But is it racist to be like, I don't know, she's important.

She's like the editor of Jet Magazine. It's racist to assume that if she's a successful black businesswoman that it must be. It's like a fashionwoman, that must be. It's like a fashion magazine or something. Yeah. You're an idiot. Yeah, I'm an idiot. Legal.

She gave a great TED Talk that you should all look up recently. What's her name? I don't know. I don't remember it either. Is it Melissa Lucas? Is that? Anyway. I think that was his. Or is that his sister or something?

Or ex-wife? I don't know. Okay. She's like the chief financial officer of DreamWorks Animation, but she also ran a hedge fund. Oh, so she's like, yeah, she's just a useless. Her name is Melody Hobson. Yeah. Okay.

But she's, yeah, she's done a lot of stuff. She's a very impressive lady, and I apologize for assuming that you work for Jet Magazine. You're a piece of shit. I'm a piece of shit. If there's any through line to our show, what this show is about. It's that you are the Jar Jar of the show. I'm the Jar Jar of the show. I'm the Captain it's that you are the Jar Jar of the show. I'm the Jar Jar of the show.

I'm Captain Tarples. I'm the Jar Jar of the show. So you're the secret success, but also a lot of calamities occur. Yep. And I'm next to you on my, what are they, ride? I don't know what they ride. Yeah. My Gungan creature.

Can I take a brief detour? Yeah, go ahead. A little merchandise spotlight? Oh, sure, yeah, of course. Got to wrap it up. Got to wrap up all the threads. I got to. A little merchandise spotlight? Oh, sure, yeah, of course. Gotta wrap it up, gotta wrap up all the threads. I got the little merchandise spotlight here. Oh, right. Do you know what this sound is right here?

That sounds like ComTech chips. This is $30 worth of ComTech chips. Wow. I have not been able to recover my ComTech reader. Good, perfect, great. So we're just gonna open the chips. They're just extra useless. And we're gonna play for you the sounds of how the chips sound just physically as items, as plastic tchotchkes.

I'm actually a little excited to hold these things because I've heard about them so much. Okay. So this is a cardboard box and inside is a Taco Bell bag. Ooh. This is wrapped in a plastic Taco Bell bag. Oh, wow. Yeah. So let's just rub some of these chips together in here.

What do you got? You got the boss nass? I got a boss nass here. Okay. And I got here. What is Luke Skywalker. I don't know who the fuck this is.

Skywalker. That's Anakin's name. So maybe that's his like grandpa or something from a novel. It says aspiring pilot. So maybe this is. We got Qui-Gon.

We got Amidala. I have something that is just Star Wars. I don't really know what that is. That's the one that comes with the ComTech Reader. It's just got some various sound effects. I got Adi Gallia here, member of the Jedi Council. Yes.

Rick O'Lea. Oh. He's excitedly showing me. Oh, I got two of the big ones right here. I got Anakin, Anakin Skywalker. These are all numbered, by the way, and on the back they have a name and a status. Anakin Skywalker, son of Shmi Skywalker, owned by Watto, and then I got Kaia D. Mundy. And I'm going to play for you right here.

Here's the sound of two ComTechs being rubbed together. This is really exciting podcasting. I'm just looking for TC-14 right now. We've got to get a TC-14 here, right? There was definitely a... Let's dump these all out. Admiral Mahdi. I don't know who he is. Yeah.

He's probably extended. Naboo foot soldier. Great. This is now seeing them all splay out on the table like this. This was a really stupid purchase. Oh, you like this one, though, don't you? Oh, no, Gaskino. That's not your favorite of the He's the one I almost bought, and he turned out to be

a piece of shit. He's the one with the multiple arms. The guy I like was Odi Mandrell. There's Tarples. Here's Watto. So you got some good ones here. So these are the ones I have dupes of somewhere. Here's that fan fiction character Greedo that he was talking about. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck he's talking about. I do like that Miles invoked Watto's box, which I

previously said was the most important plot. Here's Odi Mandrell. Is it possible? Because I got 34 Comtech chips. They didn't list which ones were in there. They just said it was an assortment with no dupes, but this isn't the complete collection. I thought you got 48. Maybe.

I think it's 48. This is a lot. This is a lot. Is it possible that I didn't get TC-14? Well, did she have a Comtech chip? Yes, 100%. She had a figure and she had a Comtech chip. Well, it looks like you didn't get her, so congrats.

Well, great. Fucking $35 spent for nothing. For not. This is awful. This is the worst day of my life. No, it's not. There's some really good ones here. Oh, you're right.

Because Saving Grace, what's here? A second package. Uh-oh. Oh, my God. A second package. It says fragile on it. What is this? David, I told you I had surprises.

You did. I showed up late and you were in the bathroom, so you didn't even see I brought this box in. You didn't even know it was here. Planet. I didn't actually. What? What's coming out of this? Oh, my God.

There she is. Wow. Deluxe 12-inch electronic talking TC-14. No, a little closer to your body. No, I want to get the microphone. It is incredible. Look at her. There's a try me button.

I'm going to see if the batteries are dead. No, it's working. I'm going to hold it to the mic. It's very quiet, but it's working. Come on, TC-14. Come on, Lindsay. Ben is checking to see if that was not picked up by the microphone. Okay, I'm going to listen to it.

I'll tell you the phrase. It says, I'm TC-14 at your service. Oh, God, I bet you are. My master will be with you shortly. You're my master, TC-14. Master of my body. We are greatly honored by your visit. Yeah, wait until I visit your vagina.

Make yourself comfortable in your vagina. And this way, ambassador, into my vagina. All right. So that's TC-14. I have a disgusting sexual obsession. Is there like an ex machina sequel coming, but it's just about you trying to build a TC-14? Probably. Yeah.

This is, no joke, one of the sexiest things I've ever seen. It is actually really. This is the thing. This is a very well-made toy. It looks really good. It's large. It's huge. Huge.

It talks. It says every. Why did they make this? I have no idea. No, who would have- This was made just so we could find this years later. Because you said there's only a few of the 12-inchers, right? There's Jar Jar and Qui-

These big toys that weren't meant- Yeah, 12-inchers, I'd say it's the main 10 characters. Right, right. Maybe 12. And then of the 12-inchers, there are only three, I believe, electronic deluxe talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are four. It was Jar Jar, Qui-Gon, Darth Maul, all obvious choices, and then TC-14, who speaks five phrases

that represent all five lines of dialogue she has in a movie. I can see myself in this robot. It's so shiny. It's how shiny it is. And can we imagine, like, this box- And it comes with two cups. Yep. And a tea serving kettle. Yeah, and then this box. And it comes with two cups. Yep. And a tea serving kettle.

Yeah, and then the tray. And a tray. It's all the things you see TC-14 hold in the movie. Yeah, no, this is a remarkable thing. It's in amazing condition. The box looks like it's just off the shelf. This looks like a new release, does it not? It does, yeah.

So I didn't get a TC-14 contract yet, but I got the fucking 38, and then I can make TC14 talk all I want. I guess it's fucking mine now. A little scary. It's fucking mine now. Great. That was this week's Merchandise Spotlight.

Thank you, Griffin. This week's segment is subtitled, Griffin Spends Too Much Money. Are you one of the people? Are you going to keep this in the box? No. No. Okay, good. You're not one of those weirdos. No, I might keep the box.

The box is nice. There's a nice cardboard insert here. It's like a background to try to sort of make her look in her place sitting in the movie. I might keep that for display. I might keep the box and sometimes put it back in there when that's the fantasy I want to play out at that time. Just to be clear, I'm not into submissive treatment of women.

That's not sexually what gets my bag, but TC-14 is not a woman. She's a robot, so I'm really into that. It's a sexy, feminine, identifying robot. It's a great toy. That was a good use of money. The Comtech chips were maybe a bust. No, I'm going to go to my parents' apartment. They're very solid.

They're solid. You hear this sound? Can you all hear this? I kind of can see why you were hoodwinked into buying these when you were a kid. Yeah, and now I have the collection I always wanted. I never had enough. Oh, my God. One can never have enough Comtech chips.

Oh, Chancellor Valorum here. Ooh. 41. These are all numbered. Okay, great. Great here. Ooh. 41. These are all numbered. Okay, great. Great merchandise spotlight. The best. We have an audio clip here from Kenny Olgovie.

Okay. Who is an Australian gentleman I worked with at a summer camp years ago. I haven't spoken to in a long time. I'm very excited to hear from him again and hear his thoughts. And he says here, I feel that you are facing the same weight that Serial did when approaching the penultimate

and final episodes How to Decide What Phantom Mass is About. Hopefully lawyers somewhere decide to cash in on your audience and make their own podcast about further investigations into the plot. Right, makes sense.

Yeah. That George Lucas is a litigious sort and now that Disney owns Star Wars for whatever fucking reason they might have some sort of retaliation so this file is called Star Ears clever title there

and producer Ben take it away I think Star Wars The Phantom Menace episode 1 was really ambitious. It seems to have been a precursor to Joseph Campbell's The Hero's Journey. I mean, you've got these expositional circumstances that are leading up to a moment we don't see. And the first step of any journey would be the call to adventure. And I feel that a character that we have not yet met from the film or from the world is being set up in this story.

And I think the movie exists as an expositional way to introduce you to this call to adventure. I don't feel that there are any moments that are not trying to set up something in the future. You know, there's no, there is certain storylines that are, you know, adventurous and using that journey. But there's no old wise man at the side of the road. I mean, you've got all these older characters who should be mentors. And the idea of the mentor is looked at in the film, but, you know, the wise old man, the wise old kung fu master on the side of the road who is hidden from the hero and deceives him and guides him on a journey, it's just, it's just not there, um, there's no paradise to return to, there's no, um, this is what we're fighting for, and this is what, you know, there's no stakes,

uh, that are, you know, there's nothing at stake, there's no gravity to those stakes, um, like, I think the best way I can describe it is, you know, when I saw Lord of the Rings as a trilogy, you know, you could see that hero's journey well established and that what are we fighting for? The Shire. And I feel that, you know, that film really bookmarked the journey of the Lord

of the Rings really well ignoring a lot of other source material from the books and really returning to that paradise and ignoring things that happened at the end of the book just to visually give that audience there this is paradise and this is what we've achieved by adventuring. I agree, Kenny. It's a movie about nothing. I feel like that's your take in summation. It's a movie about nothing. It's a bridge to nowhere.

And it doesn't follow the storytelling principles maybe it's trying to follow. Yes. And it feels like it's, as we've talked about a lot, it feels like it's setting up a lot of things that we never get to see because they only made one fucking movie. That's not how you make movies. Well, this is the problem.

It's not how you make movies. I just applied chapstick. It's not how you make movies. Every movie should work as its own individual experience. You can't put stuff off to go, well, someday we'll get to that later. See, I don't agree with this entirely. Really? I agree with it to some extent. It's just I feel like this is being lobbed at the Marvel movies a lot right now.

But all those movies are pretty enjoyable on their own. I think a couple of them are handicapped by that. But I even think less about that and more of other franchise starters that never took off. That's the thing. Like Iron Man, that's its own movie. It is a franchise starter, but it doesn't seem like one. Oh, I'm not saying within the Marvel continuity. No, I'm just saying with the starter, you can't just be like, guys, wait for the next

one. You got to be like, here's a movie. Did you like it? Okay, then. Let's make more. I might have already referenced this on the podcast, but I remember reading some interview with noted director McG before the release of Terminator Salvation. You referenced this to me.

I'm not sure if you referenced it on the podcast. And it was before that movie came out and that movie was supposed to be the start of a new fucking Terminator franchise. It was going to be its own trilogy of boring garbage. But they were talking about Common and how small his role was in the first one and he went, well, I told Common we got big

plans for him in the second and third film. And it's like, no, you fucking, if you, his character becomes interesting in two and three, make it fucking interesting in the first one. And then make it more interesting later. I completely agree. Why put a character in a movie and have him do fucking nothing? That's just common sense. Hey, God, producer Ben

is so smart. Ben, I heard you have your own hot take. Ben, we want to hear your hot take. Oh, I got my own hashtag hot takes, all right? Oh, boy. So, The Phantom Menace is this shadowy figure that's pulling the strings behind the scenes. True.

Right? Controlling destinies, affecting many worlds, the universe in his hands. This movie's about the man. Oh, you're saying like capital T, capital M, the man. That's what I'm saying. Well, that's interesting, and just quickly before we analyze your analysis,

I want to make it clear that you were reading that from a pre-written text. Poet laureate himself. Because I don't want people thinking that he just spins this shit off his brain, and suddenly every time he's so concise. Griffin. Hey, smart, good work, good writing, but don't think that came right off the top of the dome.

Put the ruler away. Producer and poet laureate. Great take. I do think it's about the man. We talked from the beginning. There's this weird distrust of organizations. This is a good point. We haven't talked about this enough.

A distrust of business, big business. A distrust of government. This is a good point. We haven't talked about this enough. A distrust of business, big business. A distrust of government. Yeah. And of patriarchy. For a man who's super fucking wealthy and seemingly has the power to do whatever he wants. It's true. Make a movie completely out of the studio system. Yeah.

With no one telling him what to do. He hates- He hates rules and regulations. He hates bureaucracy and debate and all that. He hates rules and regulations. He hates bureaucracy and debate and all that. But in a way that feels like it's the product of someone who is directly suffering with the consequences of that on a daily basis, which could not be less true. I mean, yeah, I know.

He's completely shielded from it. But he is someone who hates studio systems and things like that. That is for sure. Yeah. and things like that. Yes. That is for sure. Yeah. And he's made a movie about the child female ruler of a planet who wants to do her own thing and is blocked at every turn.

By old white men. By old white men. Also known as- And middle-aged white men. The man. I also noticed that man. By fucking Sio Bibble and his- Sio Bibble and his bearded cronies.

So you're locking Comtex together now. Yeah. I made a big discovery, which is the Comtex chips each have a little indent in them. If you stick them together, you can lock them together. It's like Lincoln Logs. That's pretty cool. All right, second hot take. Oh, you have two hot takes?

Oh, boy. Oh, my God, Ben Dusser. All right. So is it maybe perhaps about the representation of evil? Reading off a pre-prepared document. Go on. A phantom devil. The greed of man, vanity, racism, war, and a whole lot of slavery.

Yeah, no, you're right. Like, what is the phantom menace? It's not just a guy in a hologram giving orders. It's all of these phantom menaces, these things we can't define. It's the most banal of evils. Right. You know? Yeah.

Sort of privilege and conformity. An evil so banal they don't even know that that's the problem. Yeah. Casual bigotry. Things like this that just sneak into our daily lives. You know? Sports gambling. Sports gambling.

Corruption and gambling. Yeah. The thing that started my father's long ascent towards financial instability. Cut that out. All right. Cutting it. And lastly, third take. Oh, boy.

Okay. I like it. Guys, is this a representation of nihilism? Ooh. The stalled politics. The urban decay. Fighting for a cause, but what cause? It's useless.

Who's our hero? I don't know. Nothing matters at the end of the day, guys. Everything's going to crumble, grind to a halt. The Jedi are ants trying to affect... You're firing a bullet at a train.

It's not going to make a difference. Excellent point raised in that pre-prepared statement you just read off computer screen, man. No, I agree. I mean, yeah, the argument that the movie is sort of about futility. I mean, we complain about, like, what the fuck is happening in this movie? Because at the end of the movie, they're like, great. The trade negotiations are over.

The Gungans and the Naboo people are at peace, but then it's like, what do you want? Qui-Gon died. Anakin is just a slave in another person's hands. Jar Jar is, like, getting promoted. Jar Jar is like getting promoted. Jar Jar is in charge of things now. From competence by accident.

This is how this is the banality of evil. How someone can rise to the top just through being at the right place at the right time. Jar Jar is almost, it's like a Gogol story. It's like an old Russian this sort of idiot bureaucrat just rises through the ranks while someone else like, you know.

It's a little like Being There if Being There was insufferable. Oh, you're totally right. Jar Jar is like a Forrest Gump thing. He's like a Chauncey Gardner. He's, no, or yeah, Chauncey Gardner or Forrest Gump because Forrest Gump is totally ripped off of Being There. Yeah, they go, what's your name? And he goes, Chance the Gardner. And they go, oh, Chauncey Gardner.

Like they make it into a fancier name, but he's just a dumb, he's adult. He's like a man child who's a gardener. That's one of my favorite movies of all time. Being there is a great movie. Forrest Gump is. Yeah. Sort of the proto-Jar Jar. These are all good takes.

Those are hot takes. Those are hot takes and they definitely- Man, I'm going to need some mittens for those takes. Yeah. They're definitely a little too hot to handle and also it's easy to come up with takes that hot when you take the time to write them in advance. I'm not diminishing your accomplishment, but I want to make it clear, you and I are just riffing, David. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just going off the top of the dome. We'm not diminishing your accomplishment, but I want to make it clear, you and I are just riffing, David.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just going off the top of the dome. We're like jazz musicians. Yeah, exactly. We're going, ba-dum-ba-dum-ba-dum-ba-dum. It's almost, the things we don't say are as important as the things we do. A hundred percent. Especially during fan fiction episodes where you mostly talk about Qui-Gon's penis.

Oh, God. What a nice dick. Well, anyway, you're welcome. Uncircumcised. Well, he's Irish. Right. He's space Irish. I was saving, you're welcome. Uncircumcised. Well, he's Irish. Right. Space Irish. I was saving this take for last.

Yeah, okay. Because I think it's the best one. Okay, I haven't even read this one. Chris Cookson. Chris Cookson is an old buddy of mine. I haven't seen him in a couple of years either. I'm reconnecting with all these people through this podcast. It's wonderful, wonderful news.

He's a fantastic animator and a great guy. And he wrote this take which I think put the entire movie into perspective for me. Okay. It's the answer I've been looking for. Whoa.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this very question while listening to the Phantom podcast and it's been haunting me for weeks. It knows how we feel.

Yep. Star Wars Episode I The Phantom Menace is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. The further I try to look at it

the more and more difficult the question becomes. Boy, I'm relating to this, right? This is just the story of the Phantom podcast so far. It's not a coming-of-age story because Anakin never really learns anything throughout the whole film. Nor is it a film about a bunch of outcast nobles

and trained monks learning about how friendship can overcome social and political turmoil because there's no chemistry between any of the cast and no one really grows. That's true. That's kind of cutting Nathan Swagner's take. Sorry Nathan.

Down to size. So he's knocking out a lot of things that isn't which is I feel like we've been doing

more of that. They come with an answer just being like it's not this it's not this. We're trimming the bonsai tree but at a certain point

we're just going to have a little stick. Alright. But here's where Chris Cook's in. Okay. Takes the gun out of the holster.

To me The Phantom Mass is a story about consequences, about how seemingly unrelated actions can have larger implications. It's a movie that manages to have all the crowd-pleasing scenes audiences demand without any real reason to build it up. As a result, the overall story and ideas presented in the film are abstract, amusing on the Hollywood blockbuster formula, race relations, and the role individual governments can have in bringing world order. And here's his final sentence, and this is a fucking whammy. It is simultaneously about nothing and everything at the same time.

In some ways, it is the very first blockbuster art film. it is the very first blockbuster art film. So he's saying that it's like a chaos theory movie. It's like the movie is just a bunch of people flapping their wings and a bunch of stuff is happening as a result

but to look for a connection beyond that you have to zoom all the way out and just see this is just a ball of chaos. Right. So that's the thing with the text of the film. But on a meta level he's also saying that the structure of the film, with a lot of boring exposition and exciting action sequences like the Padres that have no bearing on the rest of the film, is also inconsequential. The things we want as moviegoers don't have any impact on the rest of the film, which

we have to see, which has enormous impact, but we don't care about. And he's saying because of that, the film's caught in this constant paradox. It's like an abstract work of art. I mean, this goes back to what George was saying, which is that he was just trying to make a silent movie. I mean, go back to his fucking UCLA short films and they're just cars in motion. I think he resents the fact that he has to make a movie with characters and dialogue and things like that.

Sure. Maybe that's why his things that he includes for, quote-unquote, the audience, are so hateful and evil like Jar Jar Binks. Right. Like, he's trying to torture us, being like, oh, you want character development? This is what fucking character development looks like. How many times have I said Jar Jar Binks in the last ten weeks? Too many times.

Oh, my God. But I think Chris is right. I think it's a movie about everything and nothing. Well, that's a little bit of an easy answer, Griffin it's a movie about everything and nothing. Well, that's a little bit of an easy answer, Griffin Newman. It's about everything and nothing. But isn't that a nice answer? You're really covering your bases there. Isn't that a nice answer?

Because that way it accepts all of the previous takes. Oh, I know we're dovetailing here. I know what you're doing. As canon. Perhaps everyone's right. Perhaps The Phantom Mask is a Rorschach test. It's a carnival mirror. What you see in it is what you get.

Yes. And maybe that's why we examine art in the first place. Maybe. It's to figure out who we are. This is beautiful. So really what we're talking about though is what is this podcast about? Right. Why do we watch movies?

You're bringing it all the way around and then zooming out. Listen to music. Read books. Because we want to find things that make us feel alive. That make the insufferable, mind-numbing, overwhelming reality of existence make sense for just a second. Right? Sure. We don't know why we're on this fucking planet.

Why are we alive? It makes no sense. Why are we the dominant species? This makes no sense. We could be playing with a bunch of aliens and we're all living together and instead we're the only species that's evolved to this point and we have fucking Jamba juices and shit and we wear Skechers. How did this happen?

It makes no sense and it's overwhelming. You see a movie and for two hours you go, it's overwhelming. And you see a movie for two hours. You go, it's about the Fury Road. It's about getting the wives back to the homeland. To the green place. And it makes you feel better. And it goes, yeah, we should treat women more nicely. Things like that.

It makes you feel good. And the Phantom Menace is going, oh, you want that? You want that sort of satisfaction? I'm not going to fucking give it to you. And it's just throwing so much garbage out in your face that you can't fucking process it. And we sit here for 10 weeks and we try to break it down and we can't do it.

It's impossible. It is impossible. And that's just what the movie is. We are Sisyphus rolling a fucking rock up a hill. The movie is saying, oh, you want movies? You want exciting space travel? This is what it is.

Except it's not. And so now you have to take a long, hard look in the mirror and figure out who you actually are and what you want to do. I feel like I've learned a lot about myself doing this podcast. I've learned a lot about you and about myself. Thank you. Yeah.

Maybe that's what the Phantom Mass is about. Wow, listeners, I wish you could just see that. That was like experiencing Davis, Miles Davis. Yeah, that was jazz at its height. There's a real bitches brew in here. Bitches brew is sweat. I'm hungry. I'm hungry too.

Well, so we'll be taking a little break. We'll be coming back with a bonus ep early June of the feature length commentary. Our last time watching The Phantom Menace that week. And then we'll be doing Judging the Judge. And after that, sci-fi is fun to cover. So you know what I'm thinking? IMDb has a feature where movie connections.

So you can see like other things that are similar. So we can see if we can find any comparisons here. Let's see here. There's a references section. So apparently Phantom Menace references Casablanca,

Citizen Kane, The Wizard of Oz, Metropolis, and the Buster Keaton classic Seven Chances. I did not pick up on any of those references. Yes. But apparently it also references the film Viva Zapata because it features the line, wipe them out, all of them. Okay.

Stupid. But let's look up here. Other similar film. Wait a second. What do you got? My guess is one of the similar films to the Phantom Menace, so a movie that came after it. But there's a section here and it says followed by.

Followed by? Star Wars Episode 2. Well, that one assumes that would have been the title of the failed sequel that was not picked up by a studio or anything like that. Right, Ben? I'd assume so yeah sometimes idb has credits for films that are in development yeah right exactly hold on this one has a subtitle it says attack of the clones yeah i'd say what it's not a great title interesting

and then in parentheses next to it is 2002 so that was when it was the planned release date was i don't think idb works that way. Let me click on this link. What are you talking about, Griffin? By the way, the day we're recording this right now, David pointed out, is the 17th anniversary of the release. 16th anniversary of the release of the Phantom Mass. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You won't be listening to it on that day,

but know that we're doing it that day. Wait a second, David. Release date, May 16th, 2002. Box office gross $310? Domestic? $310. So it probably just played in the one theater. No, $310 million.

Runtime, 142 minutes. 120 IMAX version. Ben, you have a legitimately shocked face. Sound mix, DTS, Dolby Digital, EX, color, 2.35 to 1 aspect ratio. This sounds like a finished movie. There's another movie. There's another movie. There's another movie. There's another Star Wars movie.

The whole time under our noses. Who would have thought? He did it. The crazy bastard did it. The crazy bastard did it. He pulled it off. Star Wars Episode II. The Phantom Menace.

I assume the whole cast is back. Wait, yeah, yeah. Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan Kenobi. Of course. Natalie Portman as Padme. Of course. And then assume the whole cast is back. Wait, yeah, yeah. Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan Kenobi, of course. Natalie Portman as Padme, of course. And then playing the role of Anakin Skywalker, Hayden Christensen. Oh, the guy who was in Life is a House? But that's weird.

Other actors are the same, and then suddenly... So is this set significantly in the future? Is Natalie Portman going to be wearing old age makeup? Probably. Enough time has passed. And that title... How much concept of time do you have here? I don't know. That title, Attack of the Clones.

Yeah, that's a mediocre title. I would think, though, I mean, what? The breakout star of the Phantom Menace was Darth Maul. Or Grogra, for sure. Darth Maul dies. He does. So you're just going to... Wait, wait.

So we've just discovered there is another Star Wars movie. I can't... This is crazy. This is huge, by the way. This is insane. We're going to need to clear out... Judging the judge, but then we're going to need to clear out some time to do this. We're going to do judging the judge, and then I think we're going to devote another 10 weeks.

We're going to become Attack of the Podcast. Attack of the Podcast. There you go. We'll do Attack of the Podcast. But most sequels, right? When you make a sequel, you go, what did the audience... You focus on the breakout hits of the first movie. What did they like about the first movie?

What did they not like? By the way, Phantom Menace made a lot of money. It is not that surprising that this sequel happened in one way, you know? More surprising that we didn't know about it. I don't know what that's about. That's a major bluff on our part. A major goof. Yeah.

It's a flop. It's a spoof and a goof. Yeah, I'm sorry. As the producer, I should have... You should have been on top of that. Yeah. You should have known. Sorry.

You spent too much time writing your hot takes. Oh, boy. Weeks and weeks on your hot takes. Why do you think they were... The fucking diamond cut wording. Because he was writing them for ten weeks. All right. I'm saying, if I had to speculate right now what it's about...

Let's just leave this... We're not going to know yet, but speculate. What's this movie? They clone Darth Maul and he comes back. Oh, that sounds so good. That has to be a text. That would be a cool sequel, right?

Oh, that'd be great because Darth Maul's cool. Comes back for Obi-Wan and now I think, you know, we're going in time and like Anakin is still a Padawan. We're still training him. Right, right.

He's getting the rope to things. Padawan learning, yeah. Right. Queen Amidala's the queen, and she's like, dudes, this Darth Maul guy came back, and they have to go back to Naboo. Back to Naboo. Back to where the magic happened the first time.

Back to where the magic happened. Get the gang back together. Jar Jar is now a general. He brings in the army. They all have to take on the clone version of Darth Maul. That sounds like a great fucking movie. Based on The Phantom Menace, that makes sense. That would be the obvious sequel. You'll have a lot of Jar Jar, because movie. Based on The Phantom Menace, that makes sense. That would be the obvious sequel.

You'll have a lot of Jar Jar because he's all over The Phantom Menace. But now he's a little more like he's become the very thing that we used to mock. He's become the man. Yeah, right. The Trade Federation definitely won't be involved because they were defeated. And that plot point didn't work. Fans didn't like it. Why would they bring it back? And then Darth Sidious

will probably be involved in some way again. Maybe he's doing the, you know. He probably did the cloning. Him and Palpatine or whatever, they're going to be around. He did the cloning. They have to beat the Darth Maul clone army, but then they also have to like realize like, wait, who made this clone? And maybe, because this was, there was so much groundwork late in episode one.

We talked about it. Right. Anakin and Obi-Wan finally realize how corrupt the Jedi Council is and bring it down. Yeah. And Yoda maybe is your chief villain in episode one. We talked about it. Right. Anakin and Obi-Wan finally realize how corrupt the Jedi Council is. Yeah. And bring it down. Yeah. You know, and Yoda maybe is your chief villain in episode two. That would be awesome.

Because like that guy, you know, he's blocking them at every turn. Well, that's the point. All power is bad. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Yeah. And also hopefully, you know, Anakin and Obi-Wan take a quick trip to that planet with the glory holes and they suck each other's cocks. You know, Anakin and Obi-Wan take a quick trip to that planet with the glory holes,

and they suck each other's cocks. Those are just some of the predictions, but I think we're going to have to pick up with a new case. Yeah, and TC-14 is hopefully a prominent character. Oh, well, yeah, she'd be all over it. Yeah, she'd be all over it. It's like, I mean, I assume fourth build is Lindsay Duncan. Yeah, they make an electronic 12-incher? That's because they knew.

There's an episode two. That's insane. You know, this actually all seems very familiar. I might have actually been aware of that at the time. I think I just sort of focused so hard on Phantom Menace. You know, the crazy thing is, now that we're talking about it, I think I might have seen it three times in theaters. And you maybe own a ton of toys related to it, is my brief guess. I might have a whole thing to launch into.

But I don't remember anything about it. No, me neither. I don't remember anything about it. But I probably spent upwards of $200 on merchandise because at that point my allowance was greater. My allowance was greater. So I definitely... Alright, so

viewers, listeners, we're going. You're going to get a bonus commentary. And judging the judge is no joke happening. The judge is going to happen. And, we're going. But. Yeah, you're going to get a bonus commentary. Bonus commentary for the Phantom Menace. And judging the judge is no joke happening. Judging the judge is going to happen. And then we're going to, you know, end of June, let's say. End of June. Yeah, end of June. End of June.

That sounds good. We're going to attack of the podcast. Attack of the podcast. Come to your ears. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. I'm so excited. This is the best day of my life.

Oh, this makes up for you not getting TC-14 as a contact. I know. I literally remember none of it. So I'm just going in cold. All I remember is that I bought all the toys. Yes. That's all you remember. I'm going in cold.

This could be anything. And I think my prediction is totally going to be correct. So my prediction, by the way, is bringing down the Jedi. Jedi corruption is felled by Renegade, Obi-Wan, and Anakin. Yoda is revealed to be the ultimate evil. Yoda is the true villain. Maybe he's working with Sidious. And your prediction is an army

of Darth Maul clones being fought by our heroes on probably Gungan grounds. Yeah, and they gotta get the gang back together. Exactly. Gotta bring back the original team. So it's Queen Amidala, it's maybe even some of the handmaidens. Rick Oliay's in there. Yeah, definitely Captain Panaka. Oh, Jesus.

Yeah, Jar Jar, R2, C3, TC, Gra Gra, Wado. Zaboba pops up. All our favorite friends. They all team up. It's the Avengers. That sounds great. We need every character from the Phantom Menace universe to team up. My expectations could not be higher.

Because the whole time we're complaining, ugh, this is a movie pointing to a sequel that never happened. It happened! There was a second Star Wars movie. It happened. And also, I mean, look, fan response was not great

at the time of its release. He had to take that constructive criticism to heart. I'm sure he did. I'm sure he took everything that they said to heart, especially about, like,

too much CGI, not enough practical elements in your sets, things like that. I'm sure he was like, you're right, guys. Next time, it's going to be a little more tactile. I own all the toys, but I know nothing about it, and I can't wait to crack in.

All right. Wow, that episode was long, considering that we had almost nothing. We had a lot to wrap up. There were a lot of loose threads, and we made a huge discovery. Producer Ben, in conclusion. Oh, it's been great. It's been fun. I don't have a prediction, though. I need like a week or so. No, I. It's been fun. I don't have a prediction though.

I need like a week or so. No, I was asking for a prediction. I was asking for a conclusion. He doesn't have anything. He doesn't have any hot takes. To this season of our podcast. Oh,

so in conclusion, I'm kind of happy to see it wrap up. Yep. Yeah, me too. Definitely. Yeah, new movie.

Goodbye, fuck you forever, Phantom Menace. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Good riddance. And I look forward to judging the judge.

And I guess I got to check out this episode too. Yeah, we all got to check it out. But first up, the judge. Everyone grab your, go to your red box, grab a copy of the judge, watch it. The only way to watch the judge is from a red box copy. It's a movie designed for red boxing. And it's, I guarantee you, a hot piece of garbage.

And the question we're going to ask is, did Robert Downey Jr. think he was going to win the Oscar? That's the question? That's the question. Okay.

Because I think... Like going into this movie or making this movie? We'll talk about it next time. Yeah. Thank you all for listening. Thanks, guys. Oh, man.

Thanks for being a friend. Goodbye, Phantom Menace and as always keep on monging those gorgs