Blank Check with Griffin & David - For Love of the Game with Olivia Craighead

Episode Date: May 8, 2022

Is this not America? Is baseball not America’s favorite pastime? Is “For Love of the Game” a Sam Raimi movie? Technically speaking, sure! It’s about a guy who’s trying not to lose both his hand and his lady - some very Raimi-esque themes. Gawker’s Olivia Craighead returns to the pod to talk about Kevin “Straight Outta Compton” Costner, and we go long on crackerjacks, Vin Scully’s screenplay notes, and the cinematic pleasures of baseball. The crack of the bat, baby! Plus - the boys open up about their little league days (Ben obviously loved to steal bases). Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

Is this not america is podcasting not america's favorite pastime is podcasting not america's favorite is she being a karen there like you know his hand is split open i know that's why i'm saying maybe she's not but the fact that she immediately goes to like baseball's important to america and not just like the guy is fucking bleeding out of his arm can we deal with what's most odd about it he's got an open bloody wound and they're like but the scar is so small when they show it and when he's it's covered in blood right it's it's look i don't know. Why was he cutting wood? You're a fucking pitcher. The scar looks like, to your point, what he would get for accidentally, like,

nicking his hand while dicing onions. Yes. Like, I have that scar. Right. And there was not that much blood. I have that scar from recycling, from folding too much cardboard. And he, like, tears open his arm on a bandsaw

and he's got this little tiny scar. But it's also funny that such a running thing in this movie is that she doesn't understand how famous he is. That like other people react to him so differently than she does. And then this is the one scene where no one seems to know who he is. Well, they're in that mountain town. They don't get baseball. They don't get baseball. But it's like he's the most distinctive looking man.

He has fucking big dick energy.'s like he's the most distinctive looking man he has fucking big dick energy even when he's bleeding out yeah and she has to scream at them now here's what's wild i texted you guys that line all caps yeah is this not america four separate texts yeah for each word and then his baseball not america's favorite pastime ben said it's got to be the opening quote right i said yes said, yes. David, you said, I don't know. A lot of competition. So many huge lines. I had the line written out, right?

In the text, but I just checked on you to see is there anything else worth doing? Any other good quotes? I was being funny, of course. Now, I will say You were being funny. Vin Scully has got some great lines. Okay, now this is the point. There are a surprising amount of quotes filled out here for this movie, now this is the point. There are a surprising amount of quotes filled out here for this movie, considering this movie is not

often thought of. Is this not America? Is baseball not America's favorite pastime? Is not included on the quotes page. Oh, it's not in there. It's not in there. That is the only line I remember from the movie. There are a fair amount of quotes on it. And a lot, like, long ones. Like, Billy's

entire final monologue like full vin scully stretches well the vin scully stuff is gold i wonder if he wrote it it's the best performance in the movie yeah right he's in the pocket i i've got i've got some options for you but he is real obviously he's good i'm just saying all i'm saying david the cathedral that is yankee stadium no no you're not gonna do vin scully right now belongs to a chap i was just gonna do that was good that's fucking good do you think that that is why they named do you think they like reverse engineered possibly well look it's from a book is he named that in the book let's find out and i think in the book it isn't the yankees i think

that was an amy robinson thing no no no no, no. In the book, he doesn't play for the Tigers. I think he plays for the Tigers in the movie because Sam Raimi is a Midwestern boy. In the book, he plays for the Atlanta Hawks, which is a fake team. But they are pitching against the Yankees. Okay.

Because, you know, the Yankees. The Cathedral. Exactly. Why wouldn't you just be the braves i i have no idea it's so i'm going off of wikipedia here but apparently his team is called the atlanta hawks in the book i don't know why well we can't ask him because he's dead yeah and there is an atlanta hawks sorry it's basketball this is true i don't know why are they the hawks well there's also the falcons there's like is Atlanta with the birds? I don't know.

Atlanta doesn't have good sports team because Braves obviously get rid of that. That's not helping. I'm realizing this is going to be one of those episodes. Rude to me. My mom is from Atlanta. I grew up a Braves fan. I had a big Chipper Jones poster in my room as a child. Well, as a Mets fan, obviously that's violence to me.

But I sympathize. But this guy. I more mean Braves. You know, the 11th of April. Oh, obviously, that's violence to me. But I sympathize. But this guy. I more mean Braves. Sure, sure. Who knew? Oh, yeah. That's not great. I'm also from D.C.

And that has a bad history of Native Americans. And also the basketball team was called Bullets. Horrible basketball team. Yeah. I knew that she loved baseball because David had said. No, she doesn't love baseball. I thought you loved baseball. I like the idea of baseball. Okay's what i like yeah i what i love is but i mean if you're going to a

baseball game right and drinking a beer with my pals for however many hours watching a baseball game on tv no that's not for me but i'll say i mean i don't watch baseball on tv much anymore i'll admit it but like it is it can have the same vibe where it's like, well, this will be on and I'll be doing various things or I'll have my friends. But yeah, you're not going to like, you know, be glued to it. No. And I will say I feel like baseball is the one sport that you can listen to on the radio. Like it is background noise. And it's very easy.

It's very easy to listen to the soundscape of baseball is great oh like a crack of a bat let's talk about the crack of the bat David was saying the crack of the bat before we start recording and I said David keep it you gotta save it we gotta talk about the crack of the bat in this episode how many sports are there

where you can hear the crack of the bat well there's a few of those cricket another great slow sport cricket in Britain does have the exact same How many sports are there? Where you can hear the crack of the bat? True. Well, there's a few of those. Cricket. Cricket. Another great slow sport. Cricket in Britain does have the exact same vibe where it's like, I'm here with my friends. We're chatting. Can a cricket game be like a day long?

No, that is this not America. How many sports are there where it is not just accepted but it is it is encouraged that there will be times when people are just gonna go to the mound you know just stop the game we have to talk for a bit yeah and people like well this is part of the game of course the manager's gonna come up and they're gonna have a chat like that's part of the game but this is why i know one is like hurry up right we're here to be entertained i can't hear you i think this is why I think... No one is like, hurry up! Right. We're here to be entertained. I can't hear you. I think this is why baseball is the most cinematic sport, right? It's up there.

I think there's something about the actual structure of a baseball game allows for more conversation. Yeah. There's a lot of breathing room. There's a lot of conversation. Right. Because you watch like a basketball game and if there's a timeout it's not long no they're talking very quickly yes and they're also winded baseball players rarely seem

winded baseball players sit yes on the bench they might as well be at the theater like they're chatting there's a thoughtfulness there's an ebb and flow to the energy whereas like a basketball player comes off you know onto the bench he puts a towel over his head, he's tired, he's like covered in sweat. Like blood coming out of his ears. There's also the fact that, I mean, and Sam Raimi has talked about this as like the biggest driving factor in him wanting to do this movie.

Baseball is like a widescreen sport. Like the field is so big. The players are so stretched out. The way the stadiums are built. You know, green, blue, and sky. I was thinking about that. And let's just say the crack of the bat.

Especially when they like really hit the ball and it goes to the wall. And you can really like track the ball. I was like, oh, that's beautiful. It's a fucking widescreen sport. It's a cinematic sport. And it leaves room for dramatic arcs within a game. Okay, so hold on. So I just found out today that, David, you love baseball. Well, when I was a little kid,

I was a huge baseball fan and dork. And I will say, when I moved to England when I was nine years old, I stuck with it. It was one of my kind of tethers to America, right? Was that I kept up with baseball. Did you ask when you got off the plane, did you say, is this not America? Yes.

And they said, it's not. You should learn this and get this into your head as quickly as possible. And then when I moved back, I was like, I'm back in the country of baseball. This is going to be great. I did keep up with a little more, but I quickly went back to basketball, which was another of my early loves.

Olivia and I share it. And I think I don't want to tell any baseball fan listeners because I do love the sport, but I feel unattached to it now. I feel unromantic about it or whatever. How can you not feel romantic about baseball? To quote Moneyball. But Moneyball is so good good so many good baseball movies moneyball is good because it's not about

baseball moneyball is not particularly about baseball i mean but moneyball is the best movie ever made it's so good but now okay you're a fan of baseball but did i did you play baseball i did i mean i played like little league baseball okay. Sure. Because I can't imagine either of you ever playing baseball. You're saying me? I can't imagine Griffin playing baseball. I just can't. I don't know why. Ding, ding, ding. You liked and played baseball.

One of those two things. You played it. I didn't like it, but I played it a lot. Your dad seems like someone who liked baseball at some point in his time. Let me guess. Your position was right, like bench. Well, I might have shared this anecdote on the podcast before. I did Little League for a while. My brother and I are close together in age.

My sister was born much later. So there was a lot. There was a decade where it was the boys. What did the boys do? And my dad wanted to coach teams on the weekend. My brother really wanted to play. And they'd be like, the boys play baseball. Right? I just got lumped into the boys do? And my dad wanted to coach teams on the weekend. My brother really wanted to play. And they'd be like, the boys play baseball, right? I just got lumped into the boys.

Ah, the boys. And I would do that for multiple years, multiple seasons. But I think. How are you at bat? Well, Ben, this is the exact point. Griffin at the bat. This is the exact point. I was so small.

I was like so tiny and anemic and frail. Small strike zone. That's true. And I was left-handed. Oh, God. Oh, that's an advantage. As a kid, I was impossible to pitch to. Because the strike zone was small.

He's like eight-year-olds. You're like, I can't. Yes. This is truly. This is truly. That's so funny. I think the kid's like a ringer or something where did you get him so this is this is like a really telling griffin origin story in terms of like my energy and my

outlook and how i perceive where i relate to the world and all of this i was so bad but what they would do was they would hold me on the bench until like bases loaded bottom of the nine and it's like we need to walk we need to base on balls here and they were like we're gonna put them on the mound and they're gonna hit you with a ball and you're gonna walk and we're gonna get a run and they called me the like the walk on kid and the way I could earn the respect

you're like Barry Bonds the way I could earn the respect of these boys is I had to surrender my body and just get fucking pelted with balls. And I would be crying and I'd be limping and they'd be like, you did good. You did good. You did good. And I'd be like, you're proud of me.

You like me. That is a really sad story. That is such a sad story. Olivia, did you play sport? I played baseball. You played baseball. I played baseball on a team that was mostly boys when I was like seven, eight. Is this in Washington? Yeah. I was like seven, eight. Is this in Washington? Yeah, I think in Alexandria, Virginia.

There was one other girl on the team and her dad was the coach. So we could really bond over that. But then eventually they kind of like, if you're a girl, they're like, you got to play softball now. And I did not like softball. So I just went back to basketball. I do think that was probably the point where I said to my parents, I'm not doing this anymore, is when it split off into not being co-ed teams.

Because when there were girls on the team, I felt a little more secure. Yeah, if it's all boys, they can be mean. Boys can be mean in sporting situations. Girls can be mean too. Girls, please. I've seen some girls be really mean. Well, mean girls.

They made a movie about it. The thing about little league sports, I played all of them, was like with soccer, we were never allowed to play with the girls because they were like a lot better than us. I'm really mean girls they made a movie the thing about little league sports i played all of them was like with soccer we were never allowed to play with the girls because they were like a lot better than us oh really mean girls soccer i know a couple girls soccer players and they're like oh yeah you just have to like um pull her ponytail and then like tackle her yeah no not actually girls soccer is like roller derby like it has like Yeah it was intense Yeah I mean they were good They were better than us

We were terrible Yeah I played baseball for years And I even went to Joe Espinosa Sports Club's Shout out Like after school baseball Oh I remember that

Yeah What was your position? Second base Second base Sims Second base Sims Interesting To this day If you know what I mean

It's a sex joke Yeah Okay Yeah Pull me out You kind of pulled me out Sorry Bay Sims. Interesting. If you know what I mean. It's a sex joke. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Pull me out. You kind of pulled me out. That's what you're most famous for is second base? Sexually? Can't make it home. I'm so good at second

base and then I just stall out. He stays there. He stays parked on second. Just like, let's just... And I played basketball as well because I was so tall, but I was really uncoordinated. And I was horrible at it. Could you at least like stand under the basket and just like lay it up?

I should have had like a Daryl Morey constructing a team around me where it's like, David, there's one spot on the court I want you. But no, we were kids. We were all just running into each other. There was a kid at my high school who, I actually don't even remember his proper name because everyone called him Biggie.

And he was built like almost exactly like you. And he was a very shy kid. And then at one point, all the basketball kids were like, if we just put him on the court. Right. And they were like, we recruit you into our friend group. And it was the same thing where like people would sit and watch the games and they'd be like, Biggie, he's like, like he's the all-star and then there'd be silence and

be like he's not actually good at basketball is big he's just big he's just you know i'm able to hold the ball no this is embarrassing just. On water polo? No, water polo, it's just, you know, it's like swimming. It's like swim basketball. I don't know. How do you describe water polo? You're like treading water and like throwing a ball. It seems really hard.

It's incredibly demanding. I did it because I'm big and I'm a good swimmer. I'm not good at water polo. You're a good swimmer. Yes. But being like a. Breaststroke Sims. I do like the breaststroke. Being like a big body in water polo is crucial because that's a very violent a lot of dunking

you know a lot of and you know whatever happens under the water is kind of tough to you know referee like obviously right would you pee in the water and they couldn't do shit about it well can i can i say something about my playing of baseball? Please. I love to steal. Oh, you're a thief, a base thief. Because the thing that I love is I love going against authority. Right. And so once you're out there, you know, you got a first base coach. You got a third base coach.

You got the coach on the bench. But you're on your own out there. So even if the first base coach is like stay here they i mean i got i got to a point where i had a reputation and they would they bent you do not steal don't steal like enough of this and then i just would be like i i got this yeah because the other thing about me is i wasn't fast. Interesting. So I would always you weren't good at it. I wasn't good at it. You weren't like Ricky Henderson. I had to try.

Would you slide? Oh, I would slide. Sliding is the best part. That's all you want to do. And you like getting dusty. Hell yeah. As a second baseman, kids would really slide with too much aplomb

and knock you over. They fucking old time rock and roll slide into the home. Ben I'm assuming you also were attempting to steal in both senses of the word. Like you would be on second. You liked the idea of free. You would grab the physical face from under your feet and then run to third.

Yeah. Absolutely. Right? Yep. Yeah. Look we should say this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes the crack of the bat,

baby. Uh, yeah. And, what else is it about? It's about freshly cut grass and, the chalk. I'm trying to think of other uh yeah the smell of a of a hot dog fresh stitching on a ball cracker jacks over here popcorn 35 cents

how much are cracker jacks like probably 1850 have you ever had cracker jacks they stink sweet popcorn is Is it popcorn? Right? I've never tried them. I was thinking that while watching the movie because there are a couple notable Cracker Jack placements. And I was like, I don't think I know exactly what that is. Do you think that it's caramel-covered popcorn,

I think, with a little bit of peanuts or something. There's something nutty. It tastes like cardboard. It tastes like the box that it comes in this is the thing like boxed popcorn is never really gonna you know you want fresh popcorn right yeah what's the thing cracker jack used to be a 50 50 ratio uh okay at the very last jack 60 caramel popcorn 50 or 40 peanuts uh in years they've come under fire because people are like, I got a bag of that two peanuts.

There's almost no peanuts in there. And the other thing is used to get like a physical prize. So this is another decline of America thing. Yes. Where it's like, man, Cracker Jacks used to mean something. Yeah. It's just like a bunch of shitty popcorn. Yeah.

I think it's. Yeah. Norman Rockwell used to do covers for magazines and his stuff stinks oh so you're coming back against that you're like no the the 50s or past time is in the past let's look ahead i'm forgetting where i i don't like what i see when i look i want to look in the past the past seems fine i'm forgetting this is on his show or somewhere else but it's the funniest thing i've seen jimmy fallon do in 20 years. He shared some anecdote about Lorne Michaels taking him to a Yankees game with Jack Nicholson.

Okay. And him going like, hey Jack, you enjoying the game? And Jack was like eating Cracker Jacks and had a far off look and then he like reached into the box and he took out a sticker and he said like, they used to have real prizes in these things.

And now it's a goddamn piece of paper. And he was like, he was like shaken to his core by the decline of the Cracker Jack prize. That's probably why Jack Nicholson mostly goes to Laker game. Absolutely. But what doesn't get to hear? The crack of the back. The crack of the back. Look, this is a miniseries on the films of Sam Raimi.

It's called Podcast Me to Hell. Today we're talking about the movie that I think least exists in his filmography. And beyond that, no one remembers it's a Sam Raimi movie. If you remember this thing exists, you will somehow autocorrect it in your head to anyone else directing this. Yeah. Right.

Unquestionably. Right. Yeah. It's a Kevin Costner movie. Yes, it is. To the extent that he picked Sam Raimi to direct it, practically. Right. And had Final Cut. Do you know this insane thing?

Oh, I didn't know he had Final Cut. We're going to unpack this. He had limited Final Cut. Yes. We'll talk about it. But they were like, his quote was $20 million at this point in time. Even though he was coming off of his two biggest flops ever. He's coming off of Waterworld and Postman.

You know, that's the thing. They say his quote was $20 million. And I'm sure he had been paid $20 million for, like, the Postman, right? Right. But, like, was it one of those quotes where it's like, look, my quote's $20 million, and I'm happy to do this Elvis movie for a cool 18, you know? And the studio's like, we'll give you a nine.

It's dropping. This is not where it's dropping, and he's trying to maintain it and they're like, we would like this to be $50 million all in. Do you think he got 20 for Message in a Bottle? Maybe. That's the one he did right before this. Yes, it is. Right, because Raimi met him on the set

of that to pitch Unintended to direct this movie. Crack of the Bat. He was like, I will forego my... I think Universal said, we'd like to get this at 50. What if we don't give you your quote, but you have huge stake in the profits of the film, you get director approval, and you get final cut?

Which, giving an actor final cut... Is a bad idea, I would say. Quite a thing. Fundamentally, just a bad idea. Especially when that actor is a director. A director who's a bit of, I would say. Quite a thing. Fundamentally, just a bad idea. Especially when that actor is like a director. A director who's a bit of an egomaniac. Exactly. An Oscar winning director at that.

Yes. Yes. Now, I will say this, and I think I've said this before. Kevin Costner, The Cause. Yeah. I worked with him on the motion picture draft day. You sure did. Which I saw on a plane recently. Thank you for the residual. It was a great time. I liked it a lot draft day is great but also the ideal plane movie oh it was perfect they shouldn't have released in theaters that was the biggest mistake no you release it in theaters but

it was made for cable and yeah i've said this before that was a movie where costner wouldn't cut his quote because he was coming off of Hatfield to McCoy and he felt like he had a hot hand and he could like get his number back up there right and they were trying to keep the budget low so every other actor in that movie took like a sag minimum damn in order to do that to give him the amount he wanted it wasn't a full 20 but it was a lot sure uh and so I did not get paid much money for that movie. And when that movie had only been on Delta planes for three months, I got a residual check that was significantly bigger than I've been paid in total.

It like immediately, the second it went on planes, blew up. Wow. That makes so much sense to me. Because I was like, this isn't out on VOD. That hasn't been released on blue. Like, where's this money coming from? And then I realized I keep having people text me photos watching on the little screen. Yeah. And I was like, this thing was just designed. It's still on fucking flight. It's like nine years later. It's a good movie. It's a good movie. The point I was going to say, I like it. I haven't read my RIP. The point I was going to say is watching him on set. It did click for me like, oh, I think Kevin Costner kind of directs every movie he's in. Certainly.

At a certain point in his career. At the very least, it is a collaboration. Yeah. But he comes in and he really... This really feels like he's the director. Yes. But for like three shots.

Yeah. Three little like rameisms. I think he likes directors. I think he respects directors. But he has very strong opinions. I will say, to his credit, they are not exclusively based in ego. Like, they are big picture thoughts, but he's just like, it has to feel like this. And he gets in there and he's just like, I'm going to fucking fight for these things.

For the love of the game. That's a pretty good cost, man. Well, I spent a lot of time with that. A lot of time with cause. Today we're talking for for love with the game. And returning as one of our favorite guests. Baseball. Baseball zone.

Baseball zone. Short stop for the Mets. Olivia Craighead. Hello, guys. Hello. I had never heard of this movie before I was asked. I was just kind of like, come on. Come on the show.

We always like to get you on. It's been a little bit. And David's like, Olivia likes the idea of baseball. Let's just give her that. I was like kind of like, come on, come on the show. We always like to get you on. It's been a little bit. And David's like, Olivia likes the idea of baseball. Let's just give her that. I was like, done. And beyond that, it was kind of like, no one was asking for the love of the game. For love of the game.

For love of the game. For love. But I'm sure there are fans out there. In fact, a couple of people have tweeted at me like, my favorite Raimi, I hope you like it. And I was sort of like, No offense to those people. Favorite Raimi?

That's weird. It's a like it. And I was sort of like, no offense to those people. Favorite Raimi? That's weird. It's a little weird. Do you hate fun? My brother loves this movie, James Newman, Past and Future Guests. Not too shocking. I don't know if he's seen it again since then,

but he especially as a kid loved this kind of like autumnal adult middle-brow drama. I did too. I did too. I put this on and I was like, I wanted this. I fucking love this thing.

I wonder if he's going to send me the text going like, you did a For Love of the Game episode and didn't ask me. The only other time he's done that is when he wasn't asked to be on Ali and then he was like, oh, it's Jamal Bowie.

That's fine. Do you think he remembers how much of this movie is Kelly Preston? This is the thing. So my brother, my brother's very, he's an odd guy. He's a great guy.

He's a very smart guy. He loves sports, right? And he's got excellent taste in movies he did as a kid love these sort of like glossy 90s adult dramas and whereas i think a lot of boys especially a lot of sports loving jockey boys are like oh gross romance kissing he was like into all of that i think this movie was like a perfect blend for him and the thing i would say about my brother is i think when he was nine or ten he had like a sleepover birthday party where my mom was like a perfect blend for him. And the thing I would say about my brother is I think when he was nine or 10, he had like a sleepover birthday party where my mom was like,

well, I'll rent a movie that you and all your friends can watch. And the movie he picked was keeping the faith. He made a bunch of nine year old boys watch keeping the faith. It was the fourth time he had seen the movie. Um, that's my, my four keys,

one of four keys, all time favorite movies. It's a, I mean, it's a fun movie, but I just think for him, he was like the exact, once again, pun intended, strike zone for this movie, where it was like, what amount of romanticizing baseball and middle-aged people falling in love and trying to figure out their shit

does this nine-year-old boy want? I was so ready to love this movie. Same. I threw it on on and the first for first anything i love from a late 90s movie now the credits are rolling and it's like john c reilly jk simmons i'm like oh this is great right and we've been getting a run of those with the ramies where it's like quick in the dead, simple plan. It's just the murderer's row, single card, like assassins. And then it's baseball. He's on the mound.

It's a Basil Polidoro score. One of his final. Basil Polidoro is blowing them horns. A beautiful, one of those beautiful twinkling 90s scores. Absolutely. And this like end of film, they finally perfected how to make movies look as shiny and warm as possible. It's got major.

She's got major. She likes to Costner's hair is just absolutely lost the battle fighting still there. Like he's walking around the hotel on his button down. He's like, I don't know. And, you know,

Brian Cox is like, I'm selling the team baseball. R.I.P. You fuck. It would be funny to be at that energy. and you know Brian Cox is like I'm selling the team baseball RIP you fuck it would be funny if he had that energy fucking kids don't like baseball then he's on the mound and he's talking through

the players that he's facing off against and I love that about baseball the idea that it's like pitchers it's psychological the pitchers what we're talking about swings at a curveball this guy never swings at the whatever yeah I'm like I'm gonna love this movie and then with our first dissolve i was just immediately like i want to look at my phone i didn't mean to hit a paper bag just then david it is incredible to me how immediately the balloon deflates and then

every time they cut back to baseball the balloon reinflates so quickly you're like i'm back in i'm back in the baseball is so good i think something very telling about this movie is that when he pitches the perfect game at the end i was crying i was so invested in a thing i knew he was definitely going to do i was like i was like crying and they like cut to his friend who plays for the Yankees now and I started crying again. And then when he goes to the airport, I felt absolutely nothing.

Who cares? Okay, two out of ten. Yeah. I was like, whatever. And I'm like, no end now. I'm all set. Look, I think there's an imbalance in this film, but I think the biggest mistake it makes

is there's that like unbroken 45 minute chunk where we stay in the relationship early on and they don't cut back to the game at all yeah and I'm like if you were going back and forth you'd maybe keep me on the hook a little more here's an embarrassing confession so I was watching this movie with

the woman I'm dating humble brag and she crack of the humble brag right we're like watching it. We're like sort of like, ah, Kevin Costner baseball. I was also watching this movie with a woman I'm dating. Humble brag. My wife.

Porky. Who you've dated all the way to the point of marriage. Sure. Yeah. And then the flashbacks happen. And she's like, do you mind if I like do some work while you're watching the movie? And I'm like, that's fine. You don't have to watch this. To be clear is what my wife was saying. Right. And she's like, you're watching the movie? And I'm like, that's fine. You don't have to watch this.

To be clear is what my wife was saying. Right. And she's like, I'm just not very intrigued. I'm like, that's fine. And she's sitting there on the couch next to me working on her computer. And she's like, why are we watching this? I want to watch Spider-Man with you. When are you doing the Spider-Man episode?

And like 20 minutes later, I was like, fuck it. I'm turning this off. Let's watch Spider-Man. Sure. We watched all of Spider-Man. Went to sleep, woke up in the morning, watched the second half of this movie. I was like, I cannot get through this. Sure.

Straight through, all I'm thinking about is how badly I want to be watching Spider-Man. Well, the minute a lady you like is like, I want to watch Spider-Man. Well, yeah. What are you supposed to do? But also, like, J.K. Simmons comes on with the mustache. Oh, and he's violently chewing that gum.

Well, that could actually describe Spider-Man or this movie. This is the point. So he comes on and I'm like, oh, fuck. I could be watching Spider-Man right now. So I did a Spider-Man sandwich with For Love of the Game as the slices of bread around it. Those are some white, chunky slices of bread to put around Spider-Man. Well, actually, you stuffed the bread into a glass of milk and then ate it in the middle of the night with your stepdaughter and said,

don't ask any questions. But my thing was, I was like, I sort of, fake step, what do you call it? Stepgirlfriend's daughter. I mean, I just went for it because whatever, you can get it. As soon as Jenna Malone showed up, I like looked at how much time was in the movie

and it's like another hour. And I was like, oh my God. My rule I like another hour. I was like, oh, my God. My rule I made to myself was I was like, I have to get to the halfway point of this before I put on Spider-Man. Because you won't feel it'll be insurmountable next day. So I'm like, I can wake up in the morning and watch the second half of this two hour and 17 minute movie. But I have to get to that halfway point. And the halfway point pretty much takes you to the end of the longest unbroken stretch of the flashback stuff. The introduction of Gentleman Alone.

And I was just like, this fucking movie. And I wake up and I put it on. And within two minutes, it goes back to the baseball game. And I was like rubbing my hands together. But it just, you know, just when you're starting to get super into it. Did you feel the urge every time to pick up your phone? Yeah. Every single time I'd be like,

it's right there. Olivia, what did you think of this movie? Like I said, the baseball stuff is really good. You're with us. The baseball stuff is incredible. I do think that Kelly Preston and Kevin Costner

had some good chemistry, but it was just like it was so much. It was weighted so far under their relationship. Yes. Initially I was like I think Kelly Preston is not working for me in this. And then I felt a little

bad because I was like I'm speaking ill of the dead here. You know. She is of all celebrities we lost in the last two years in the weird memory hole pandemic. The most surprising and the one I keep forgetting is well okay i'm pretty sure i'm right she died very closely to when naya rivera died and i think was like a very strange shock yeah it was kind of like a barrett fawcett michael jackson and no one knew she was sick yeah and then it was announced so casually on instagram and she hadn't been working as much. So she wasn't like, but like,

then I'm watching the movie and I'm like, I think I'm being rude to Kelly Preston. This is a, you know, kind of a quite underwritten role. Yes. It's a tough role because she's constantly just like the nag, not like,

you don't, you know, you're just sort of like, you're slowing me down. But also she's just there to be like, Hey, what's up? And he's like, I love baseball. Leave me alone. And you're like, Jesus, but also she's just there to be like, Hey, what's up? And he's like,

I love baseball. Leave me alone. And you're like, Jesus, this is such a bummer. So I actually think she's fine in it. I sort of settled down on Kelly Preston. Cause initially I'm like,

is this good with insert, you know, Helen Hunt? Like, is this good with someone else in it? Like, I don't know. Am I lacking an actor?

I love in this, but it is, it is so a woman who just has to be like, hey, what's going on? And then he like throws her shit across the bathroom or whatever. Like she doesn't really get to like have real like reactions to any of the insane shit that he is doing to her. Like that first date is one of the worst first dates that you could ever go on. Come and sit

five hours by yourself at a baseball stadium and you have no relationship to this sport. With the wives who are all judging you. Fuck that. And her to just kind of be like, oh, actually, I've really warmed up to this. I would be like,'m this sucks i'm getting out of here here's what i loved i loved how they met

um because it felt like fan fiction it felt like a girl who doesn't pay attention to sports right has like a hunky guy come fix her car and then it's like he's famous like oh i love that i also love what both of them are wearing in that scene yes the fashion in this movie good 90s large good hell yes so my my thought in that scene the uh the flat tire scene she looks like she's about to go do a uh stand-up set at uh union hall, she's wearing like the hoodie. She's wearing the hoodie over like a flowery dress. And combat boots. Combat boots. And her hair is up and she's got

the glasses and I'm just waiting for her to take out the notebook and go, what else, what else, what else? And he's wearing shorts and a big red windbreaker. Yeah. Looking great. He does look good in this, right? As much as it is. Yes, he does. Yes, it's a bit of a sort of like Costner

hasn't quite accepted that he's middle-aged movie. Right. Obviously down to the fact that he's playing like a 40-year-old when how old is Costner? He has to be like 47 at this point, right? I think he's 45. He's 45. Okay, all right. So you know what, Kevin? Fair play. I think also, let's just say he's always played older. Yeah, that's the thing.

There's nothing boyish about him. So even him playing five years older than he should be in this movie that's a movie about the guy being too old energy he's got such bad energy i think it was during that scene that i said out loud jesus christ he just looks like a wood carving yeah yeah like there's something about him yes yeah he's very yeah he doesn't have much of a lip. But then he's got this incredible, like, in profile. He looks like he belongs on a coin. You know, I'm just like, his nose and his brow. Something I noticed, and I've never seen this on him before, and I wonder if it's like later in his career he got corrected.

And this is maybe kind of rude of me. His teeth are a little fucked up. He probably just has fucked up teeth. Like, his bottom yeah i can see the crowding in a way you're tooth obsessed ever since you've had there's a lot they're looking great yeah no that that is like tom cruise i feel like he famously was an early one right and like everyone else had like man teeth and then i think like around the early 2000s it's like a prerequisite for every leading man to get like perfect veneers right and so i think you see guys like that who were got famous right

before that generation who are just like i don't know i just don't smile with my bottom teeth he still catch them like he's not someone in my opinion who's good at playing like a general because he's a little too but he's great at playing you know like he's a little too, but he's great at playing, you know, like he's great in 13 Days. He's great at playing like a government guy in the 60s. There's the weary, casual, sort of like he wears things heavy, but he throws all the lines off the cuff. He's not that sort of commanding thing. He has that kind of, because he's from California, right? He has that like California vibe. Yes, he does.

It's just kind of like every line, like you were saying, it was just kind of like tossed off a little bit. The first thing he... He's from Compton. Huh. Straight out of? Well, I don't want to say that he's straight out of Compton, but he is from Compton, California. Did he stop somewhere else? Midway between Compton and Hollywood? His dad was an electrician

and his mom was a welfare worker and he went to maybe like a Baptist? No, no. He is a Baptist. Okay. Or he was raised Baptist. He sang in a choir. He has stated that reviewing of how the West was won at the age of seven

formed his childhood and recently rambled about that on the Oscar stage. Calling it his first adult movie. And Jane Campion said, that was very dramatic. Is she nagging him? the oscar stage first adult movie and jane cambion said that was very dramatic look it was so hard to process his speech in the way everyone was just in their minds now this right because that was right after will smith's speech right like yeah so yeah it was even like everything had even if if the will smith thing hadn't happened I do think we might have paid more attention to how weird but also like in a way it was the exact kind of weird you want out of the Oscars like it was like a Connery dumb movie speech where you're like here's just this like icon rambling about

the power of this fucking thing with complete earnestness and it was just too disruptive at that point right really Kevin I i'm sorry i can't go back to your childhood right now right he's like let me paint a picture for you i'm like no no no no put your easel down i wish i could go back to your childhood we know things now that we can't unknow anyway he is a california boy yeah the first thing he said when i met him they brought me over and they were like kevin this is griffin he's the guy playing rick the intern because you have a a couple of one-on-one scenes with him in draft my role is almost exclusively one-on-one scenes he breaks your computer when he breaks your computer which is

actually if i didn't know you i would still be i'm pretty upset in that scene thank you like that scene is and it's fairly early ish i guess about halfway it's the it's the resolution of my arc yeah but everything's which then there's 30 minutes of additional deal making after that yes but i mean obviously draft day is all about when he then yes the fucking reverse trades and he gets everyone's picks back and it's so good but i want david goddamn putney um but yeah when he breaks your computer that's a you know that's just you and him a lot of it was just me and i just feel like a tremendous amount of time with him.

But they brought me over and they were like, Kevin, this is Griffin. He's the one who's doing all these scenes with you. And he went, where are you from? And I said, New York. And he went, ah, a real actor. That's nice. And I went like, I don't know,

but I don't want you to think I'm some fucking Broadway dude. And he went, no, but you're not like the California actors who just like boogie boarding. Oh, wow. He hates the boogie boarders. He hates the California boys. So if you had said to him like, hey, Kev, do you want to hit the waves later? He would have been like, you fire amateur. No, but that's why I never knew he was from California because he spoke

so derisively of California actors. Well, you live in Hollywood. Because now he probably must have a ranch. He lives in Yellowstone. Does he live there? He bought it. He bought the whole park. It's national.

He lives in the Grand Canyon. He made a bed at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. The eagles tuck him in at night. Obviously, he has a ranch in Aspen okay as well um and uh he co-authored a book called the explorers guild of passage to shambhala this is another thing about kevin costner he is absurdly rich like beyond just how much money he made as a movie star and everything he's also like invested really well he's like done a lot of shit i mean

we all remember when the bp oil spill happened he has a lot of he has a lot of money in like oil offshore oil drilling technology yes like environmentally friendly alternative yes he's he's very he's made a lot of money there and yes and and you know also he's a republican who went democrat yeah not less of those less of those and i think that's cool i think it's cool to a little swing vote pete you know like yeah you know am i endorsing pete no but no does kevin costner endorsing pete kind of just i love it for him i do love it for him yeah no but it was just this wild thing where when the oil spill happened and they were like we don't know what to do kevin costner went in front of

congress and he was like look i'm just telling you i've spent the oil spill happened and they were like, we don't know what to do. Kevin Costner went in front of Congress and he was like, look, I'm just telling you, I've spent the last 10 years making a machine that can separate oil from water. It was going to spin the oil. I think. Right.

Like in like a big drum. And you're like, you have spent the last decade funding this. He has said publicly that he has no ambition to run for political office. Another thing I love. Quote, I've lived quite a colorful life. Well, good. He doesn't want us looking in our closet.

Don't you look in his closet. I'm going to submit a FOIA. He has seven children? All with one person? I think two. He was married to one person. They have three kids and he's married to someone else. They have four.

I wonder what he's like as a dad. I bet it's kind of like Yellowstone it's like molly's game you don't actually see much of him then he's on a park bench and he gives you five years is this a dream yeah he finds you with the ice ring yeah that's the other thing with costner the most dramatic turnaround in my recent film loving like career is me being like god God, that Molly's game scene sucks. And then the second time I watch it being like Costner crushes this. This is a good scene. Like, I love that scene. It is.

I mean, I've seen it like three times now. Probably. It is one of those things where I'm like, I think this is the movie. You played the game. I played the game. I played the game. I was dealt in. I there is no part of me that pushes back against anything he's doing

and i'm like this is like herculean what he is pulling off in this scene and every time i'm just like is it legal for sorkin to be asking him to do this absolutely not it's not legal for sorkin to ask anyone to do anything needs to write he needs to actually be put in some sort of a friendly Hollywood jail for a while. But Costner's work in that scene is stunning. He's good. He's really good in that movie. Really fucking good. I'm glad we're all Molly's Game hype.

Yeah. Yeah. Molly's Game rules. That's what's annoying, though. I know. Is after Molly's Game, it was like, you know what? Sorkin just needs to cook with gas. And then he was like, more gas.

And we were like, no, Aaron, no, no. Take his director's chair away. I remember like watching Molly's game being like, huh, he's actually a better director than I thought he would be.

There's some interesting things in here. There's some shit where he like gets it wrong. There are like some scenes where he's like putting way too much paprika on the sandwich,

but he's closer than I thought he would be. And he's found the perfect subject. This is maybe the best character he's ever built a movie around. He's in the pocket. And then he just makes two movies i hate with every fiber of my

being and i'm just like he's giving into all the dependencies that movie is awful yeah i don't think it's particularly good but uh the ricardo fucking saccharine and so like uncinematic both of them and And just stupid. Moving, slight, slight. Cosner. Yeah. Is there a movie you don't like Cosner in? I feel like he's always good.

I think he's always good. Now, I haven't seen Black and White, which Olivia and I briefly discussed. Oh, we were talking about how he loves sports movies. He does love a sports movie, of course. Tin Cup, in which the villain's name is? David Sims. Two M's. Played by Don Johnson. And this is like

his third baseball movie. This is the thing. He's done, obviously, he's in one of the greatest baseball movies ever made. He's in two of the greatest baseball movies ever made. Yeah, I was gonna say, which one are you talking about? Major League, he's in Major League too. Well, I was talking about Bull Durham. Obviously, Field of Dreams is like one of the great America

movies ever made. Sure, yeah. Is it a great baseball movie? Like, it's a lot of the sport being played. But it's the great America movies. Sure. Yeah. Is it a great baseball movie? Like it's a lot of the sport being played, but it's a great baseball movie. Baseball as religion. It's the idea of baseball. It's like baseball is like a romantic concept. I love that movie.

Yes. Because people should on Field of Dreams. No, it's a great film. And they shouldn't. Yeah. It is corny, but. Sure. But baseball as a romantic idea is corny. Yes. Yes. Yes. Baseball is corny. Yeah. It is corny, but sure. But baseball as a romantic idea.

They had corny. Yes. Yes. Yes. Corny. Yes. And do I own a 4k box set of Ken Burns's baseball in my house? I sure do.

Do you have the field dreams? 4k steel? I sure do. Do I also think the natural rules, even though Kevin Costner is not in it? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Regular 4k no steel book for that one, right? I don't think I have that one on disc. Interesting. Look, the point is, especially when Costner is coming off of like his two biggest flops ever. Right.

And you're just like, has the hubris taken over him? Like he needs to step back. He needs to go back in the pocket. Why did he do two fucking post-apocalyptic sci-fi budget? You're talking water world and the postman tin cup is in the middle of those. Okay. Fair enough. So tin cup, he was kind of tin cup is is in the middle of those. Okay, fair enough. So Tin Cup, he was kind of...

Tin Cup is good. Tin Cup, he's on base. He's on base, right? And then there are two humongous flops. Message in a Bottle comes out before this, but isn't out when he starts filming. Message in a Bottle actually did pretty well. It did pretty well, yeah.

So you have two smaller romance movies. But you just have to think for Universal to be like, we got Kevin Costner making the third film in his baseball trilogy. Right. And for Costner and his team feeling like we're back in the sweet spot.

Everyone's going to be so happy to see me doing this again. Well, also the pitch for this movie is really good where it's like Kevin Costner is playing a baseball a famed pitcher who's probably pitching a spinal game I'm like I can picture that I'm already tearing up I'm seeing

the hat on his head it's like okay while he's on the mound he's reminiscing through his life I'm like sounds good and what they're not saying is like they're reminiscing on how he's like I was kind of an asshole to this one woman. This one kind of shitty, unwilling to commit relationship.

I spent like five years being kind of mean to a woman who loved me. Who obviously liked me and had room for me in her life. And I was talking about, I'll give you some context in a second. I was talking about this with Forky. Yeah. Dating, like say you're dating Kevin Costner in this movie.

Do you just have the thought of like yes he's a nightmare right now but like it's only a few more years of baseball and then he's retired rich has no job a lot to work with I think the movie would benefit from making that text

it's like you need to have the character sort of think through those he's not very nice to her as just you know as brian cox said he's invested his money well yeah and i kind of liked the setup that they had when they first started where it's like you go on the road do whatever and when you're in new york you're in new york yes i would i would be so you'd be chill with that you don't mind if he fucks the masseuse No absolutely not But when you're in New York You're with me and that's fine

Do you think it's a little rude Of him to fuck the masseuse Not because he's with Kelly Presson Just because it's like Don't fuck the masseuse I think it's a little I think they had been fucking I know

And she's doing the Nice to see ya Yeah she's like Haven't seen ya in a minute Cause I think it's also It's like I think the masseuse Wants to fuck him No she doesn't

I'm not saying he's taking advantage Of the masseuse I'm just kind of like don't you just want to keep the masseuse relationship professional cliche right but maybe not it is a thing though we're like that is kind of a fun modern setup especially for two people who are like adults like proper adults

in a movie like this one of them's a mom right you know and he's like you know the fact that it takes one scene for that to fall apart like the next scene is her walking in with the masseuse. I really like when he says like, before anything else, I want you to know my heart leapt when I saw you. I actually really like that line. Some of these fucking moments.

You were asking if I ever dislike Costner, right? Yeah. And I just think I don't. Because I like him in Postman and Waterworld. I think he's such a steady hand.. I think he's such a steady hand. And I think he's such a unique movie star. I'm going to have a lot of little anecdotes like this, right? But there was a thing on set where I would hear crew people be like,

he sucks. He can't act. Like, what the fuck is going on here? And I would tell them, like, stand behind the monitor and watch what he's doing. And they would do it. And they'd go like, holy shit, you're totally right. on here and i would tell them like stand behind the monitor and watch what he's doing and they would do it and they'd go like holy shit you're totally right he's one of those guys where he has he knows such an understanding of filmmaking of how he plays on camera of what his iconography is no pun intended like what his weight is like all that sort of did you ever do him on iconography

no no one ever brought costner you should have cost would have been a cool thing to bring to a very cool podcast, but... I don't know. I think Ayo and I would have a lot of fun talking. Exactly. That's the thing. We love old white men. That's the thing.

Ayo probably has insane Kevin Costner. I don't think there's a lot of debate on whether Kevin Costner is an icon or not. I mean, the man is certainly an icon. I'll text Ayo and see. I'll ask her what her thoughts are on Kevin Costner and then if she responds. But it was that thing where I was like, when I'm in a scene with him, it is like astounding. It is astounding to like play off of him. And then if you're standing at any other angle, it looks like he's doing nothing.

So and he'll like he will like he's not a guy who gives like immaculate take after immaculate take. He is a guy who is like striving to identify moments where he can like just roll the line off in the right way or find the little look or whatever. So it's not like if you're watching him, you're like from beginning to end,

he's always perfect. This guy is put together. He knows the line. But he understands filmmaking where he's like, I just got to get that shot. I got to get that moment. I got to find it.

And he's like a little obsessive about like, can he make, can he direct one more movie? He's lost in Yellowstone world did he just announce a thing did he I think he just announced a Western yes he announced a Western you're right we're so fucking amped about we should do it

him it's happening I think there's only five movies right right I think it's only three dancing with wolves I think we would have to do water world though we would that was our because he goes to put him in March dances with wolves the postman and open range I guess it's only three open ranges we were texting about this when this happened open range i think he announced that he's self-financing i think you're right i think

you're right he's like fuck it i'm just gonna make my own western i love that love it all right let me give you some context about for love of the game. Okay? Is everybody ready? Alright. Michael Jay Shara. We all know him. He wrote this novel. He won the Pulitzer Prize in fiction for a book called The Killer Angels, which was about Gettysburg. And then he had

a near-death motorcycle accident and he never wrote another hit book. he like apparently it really fucked him up in 1988 he died of a heart attack he was 58 years old

his son Jeffrey who's also someone who writes fucking Gettysburg-esque novels found this manuscript in his house after he died this was his unpublished novel

he just had like a baseball book sitting around I know and he read it and he was like this is i know and he read it and he was like this is pretty good and he got it published and uh before it was even published probably partly because of the name and probably probably because of the story hollywood was like yep come on yep you know it sounds good we want it was the book a hit at all not really i don't think it was

like a best you know a massive hit or anything but it was a it's 150 pages long think it was like a best massive hit or anything but it's 150 pages long like it's like exactly but it does feel like the kind of book where it's short and the concept is so cinematic that like Hollywood just immediately there's something just so romantic about the entire idea of the thing

that's awesome this is going really good I'm loving it I think we're having a really fun time. 20 minutes on baseball, another 20 on cause. Everything is running smoothly. You're in the dossier.

We're like 50 so in. I also feel like we're not doing side tangents. We're talking about things in the expansive web of the movie, but we're actually, we got into it pretty quickly. I'm sorry I even brought that because I feel like I'm going to jinx it.

You don't want to jinx it. The jokes are funny. I mean, you don't want to jinx it. The jokes are funny. I mean, you don't want to jinx that you might be, you know, producing the perfect podcast. I'm producing the perfect podcast right now. No, no. So, Ben, your experience, I believe, was also seeing this at the time,

but you did not rewatch it, you told me. I did not. Yeah, no. I didn't have time. We're doing these episodes very close together, and I don't think we can really reasonably expect them to have to watch everything. So anyways, yeah, I mean I left and I was just like

those were a lot of keys. That was my takeaway. Fuck. Alright. Let's just keep going. Sidney Pollack. He hires Robert Towne. I mean, it's just like big heavyweights coming in. Does Amy Robinson she already involved at this point I mean, it's just like big, big heavyweights coming in. Does Amy Robinson, is she already involved at this point? Yeah, she's the producer who found it.

Amy Robinson, who I just want to shout out, a legend. She is a legend. Was Griffin Dunn's producing partner, did After Hours and Running on Empty and other films with him, but was the female lead in Mean Streets. Yes. She like pretty much stopped acting after that. That rocks. Yeah, right? But it's obviously...

And then became a producer. And Griffin Dunn was like, no one will hire me. I want to find my own projects. He teams up with her. They start buying scripts from him. And then they just start setting up movies with other people.

And she's a fucking badass person. You know what the last movie she produced was? What? Julie and Julia. Cool. So Dana Stevens, now not friend of the show, Dana Stevens.

We should clarify. But American screenwriter, Dana Stevens, who in fact wrote The Woman King, which, you know, Prince Bythewood is, you know, making this year. Has written a lot of movies. You know, she wrote Life or Something Like It. Jolie Burns, we all remember. She wrote The City of Angels, the Cage Ryan. Right.

The movie that gave us Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls. Correct. America's Greatest Movie music video Kevin Hart's Fatherhood which was on Netflix this year yeah

what was the thing she wrote before this that was like her breakout thing that I'm forgetting it's called Blink right it was a Michael Apted thriller starring Madeline Stowe

and Aidan Quinn I've never seen it I don't have that fucking song in my head sorry sorry and I don't have that fucking song in my head. Sorry. And I don't want the world to see me. He's just sitting in that tower

looking at them. Late 90s. Same vibes, right? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So, after writing Blink, Dana Stevens says, I'm a female screenwriter who had just written a movie with a female lead.

All I'm getting offered are novel thrillers with tough female characters and she's talking to amy robinson amy's like what do you want to write what is what would you really want to write and she's like the truth is i really want to write the way we were the redford strysand movie that's my favorite movie of all time amy robinson looks at her and says do you like baseball and she's like i love baseball and amy robinson is like read this book because it's kind of like the way we were with baseball right right like now i think that's a stretch because i wish this was like the way we were like i wish it was a 20-year romance that's what you know what i mean instead it's like i met her when i was famous and fucking around right

they don't date for that long no they break up for a couple years yeah yeah yeah no that's that's the problem with this but also it is funny that every like it feels like every step of getting someone involved in this movie was someone being like do you like baseball and then taking a breath and going i love baseball like amy robinson said it was like she read the review of the book and she was like, fuck, I've always wanted to make a baseball movie. People like baseball. Ran out, bought the book, read it, and was like, this is it. The crack of the motherfucking bat. Now, the

book is set in the 70s. Dana Stevens brought it into the present day. And she also brought in the daughter character. Right. Maybe a mistake. I think the Kelly Preston character was entirely different. Yeah, fairly different. How they meet is different, apparently. Now, as you might read on Wikipedia,

supposedly Tom Cruise attached to this movie. No. Tom Cruise apparently begged Sidney Pollack to do this movie. Wanted this movie. And Sidney didn't want to do it because he was like, you make no sense for this movie. I'm thinking of an autumnal guy at the end, and Tom Cruise makes no sense for that. You're too prime of your an autumnal guy at the end tom cruise makes no

sense you're too prime of your life tom cruise seems like a baby in 1999 still too little everything about it yeah yeah i can't imagine him being like ah you know i've had a long career i'm like no you haven't even even though in 99 he sure you know he's been around right but it still just wouldn't work but this is one of those things weird because Costner and him have the same length of career, and yet it's like... No, it doesn't work. But you just have to imagine everyone at this point has already for months or years been saying in hushed tones,

like, it's got to be Costner, right? The version of this movie that makes the most sense is Costner. In every single box, it's like check, check, check, check, check. Okay, so she gets wild. Pollock eventually quits the movie lawrence kasdan comes in he brings cosner right he's the one who gets cosner on board uh dana stevens departs because kasdan starts fucking with the script apparently dana stevens says that jake kasdan who was 21 at the time obviously is now an established Hollywood screenwriter. He's already done Zero Effect. Has he already done Zero Effect?

Yeah, Zero Effect 98? 97? I guess maybe it has... Well, no, but yeah, this isn't 98. Because this is when they're still working on it. That's true. He's only 21. Yeah.

He did his own version of the movie. I don't know what they messed with. But that was like... Larry was like, I want to do this. Kazen's like, you're out, I want to do this. Like you're out. Yeah. If Jake can write it. Right.

And so Kevin Costner stuck up for Dana Stevens and said, no, she should write it. And so Kasdan quits because he wanted his son to be the writer. But this is once again, the second Cosner enters the picture. It's his fucking movie, right?

This is the thing, right? He's calling the shots on everything. And it's just like, he's his fucking movie, right? This is the thing. He's calling the shots. On everything. And it's just like He's calling the play. You got a great director. You have a hot screen writer. It's one or the other. And he gets to constantly put his thumb on the scale as to what wins. And a guy he's worked with so many times at this point.

Like, he and Kasten have a real relationship. Absolutely. Kasten fucking put him in a big show. he must really like the big show dana stevens yeah or he hates jake caston that might be it he might have been like listen larry this isn't like a training wheels thing for your kid this is a kevin costner movie about baseball this is the other thing i think costner gets in his head i don't say this in a negative way but he is this guy who like big picture is like i I know the kind of movie we're trying to make, the kind of feeling I want, you know? Like he does really invest in, there's so many quotes that JJ pulled up that we'll get to where he's just like, I think about the everyday American putting their $8 down to see my movie and what they want.

I know. Let me talk. If Jay Kasdan is not syncing up with his vision, no amount of Kasdan loyalty is going to trump if Dana Stevens is closer to what he thinks the movie needs to feel like. And also, they seemingly got along well. Sam Raimi throws his hat in the ring. The studio says,

we're not interested in you. You lunatic. Go make another fucking Deadite movie. Exactly. You child. Sam Raimi loves baseball. He says, I'd had kids.

I was married I'd gotten older You know I wanted to make This kind of a movie It's what we're talking about In Raimi's career And I haven't really asked

Your thoughts on Raimi Olivia But it's this middle part Of his career Between Spider-Man And his early genre stuff Where he makes The Simple Plan

And this Right And The Gift He's making like Grown-up movies And Simple Plan Is like I want to make Gr grown-up movies like he's clearly like i want to make this should be the coen brothers transitional oscar moment and the film is a little bit underrated in its moment doesn't get the recognition it deserves and then now he's

doing this movie where it's like oh you're in a weird song yeah i re-watched simple plan before this to kind of be like where are we at in his vibe and that movie rocks it rips it is so good and like the pacing is really good and it's like a really good screenplay also based on a book yes um i love ramey ramey to me and i think people my age is spider-man like that toby mcguire is my childhood spider-man yes and i love those movies and that is mostly how i know him because i'm a scaredy cat and i don't watch the scary ones but i love sam ramey we all love sam ramey here i i wonder if there's more he could have done with this movie i don't know but anyway there are a couple moments that are like in the in the first like 10 minutes there are like three little funny things thing he does where he kind of drops the sound out and he like isolates clear the mechanism yes mechanism you

know all that i love that and i was like oh a little visual invention from ramey and then it's like kind of not doesn't really happen again well it's i mean we talked about that like simple plan he was challenging himself. Don't move the camera so much. Right. But you still feel the Raimi energy and inventiveness and, like, thoughtfulness in the impact of every single moment, every shot, every line reading or whatever. This just feels a little bit like he's on a preset. A little bit.

He's on. Like you said, Costner's kind of running the show. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Anyway, Raimi takes a meeting with Costner's

producing partner to discuss End of Days, which apparently was also being considered by them. Yeah. And then he's like...

this is the course, the thing I get hired for, the big fucking demonic horror movie. And then he's like, by the way, I actually want to do the baseball movie. And they're like, okay. the way, I actually want to do the baseball movie. Yeah. And they're

like, okay. They send him out to Maine. As you said, he pitched Costner on the set of Message in a Bottle. They flew him out. He got flown out on Costner's private plane. His quote is, after we met, I honestly didn't think he was interested in me, but he must have liked the other directors he met with even less.

But David. So it's not like Kevin Costner, I guess, was like, Sam, you're a genius. But sorry, you want me to... Well, the other thing he met with even less. But David... So it's not like Kevin Costner, I guess, was like, Sam, you're a genius. But sorry, you want me to... Well, the other thing Remy said was he was like, I don't remember ever being hired onto that movie. I remember having like meeting after meeting after meeting. And then one day I was on set and there was my name on the back of a chair.

Like there was no point where I felt like... I never got the call that I had the job. Right. Yes. I mean, the other thing is apparently he got like a mosquito bite. What I want. Right.

Well, when he showed up in Maine, I guess. He gets off the plane and JJ, our researcher, described it as a hitch-like allergic reaction where his face is completely. Is he like blew up? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. And his face was completely swollen when he met Kevin Costner the first time.

He was completely miserable. Yes. And he had hitch-like facial swelling. But hey Costner the first time. He was completely miserable. Yes. And he had hitch-like facial swelling. But hey, he gets the gig. That's a gig. Everyone speaks highly of him. If anything, maybe he really just stuck in Costner's head.

Give me that swollen fucker. Everyone speaks highly. Like Dana Stevens says, he was a good middle ground guy. He was the guy settling things down. Yeah. If Costner was fighting with the studio, Sam was good at mediating.

Steady hand, diplomatic. Exactly. Costner respected him, liked that he had such a clear vision, wanted to hand himself over. That's the thing. It sounds like a little bit during production, Costner relinquished control more than he usually does.

And then during post he wound way the fuck up. Whereas I think often on set he's like really getting his hands dirty. Yeah. Yeah. The film filmed at Yankee Stadium. I was wondering how they did this.

The Yankees had just won the World Series if anyone knows, in 1998, they were the most successful baseball team in history. And they beat the Padres. And right after that, it wasn't too cold because the World Series was so short. They filmed for a month, basically, in October 1999, 1998. And that's the old Yankee Stadium.

It is the old Yankee Stadium. Where you can get the train. Where the train, you could still, you know what I mean? It was in the background more. Did they? Where you can get the train where the train you could still you know what I mean it was in the background more. Yeah. Did they just like have are all those extras

like just real people? Because there are a couple crowd shots where there's like a lot of people. They said there's a lot of cardboard standees

and a surprising amount of CGI to fill it. There you go. Yeah. Because the crowd stuff does look very realistic. It looks like

you know how they did A Star is Born, where they just like ran on at Coachella. Well, that is one of my favorite stories where at Coachella, right, they were like, and now for 10 minutes, Bradley Cooper and Willie Nelson's kid are going to play a song for you. And everyone was just like, okay. But no, the Yankee fans in this are very well cast.

Those just like the sort of like, you know, stupid loud mouth. I love the guy in the bar. The guy at the bar is incredible. I didn't double check this, but I watched these two movies, not even back to back, but interrupt us. I think the guy in the bar is the fucking wrestling promoter in Spider-Man. I mean, that would short changes. He does like to reuse his guys.

Yes. He wanted Brent Briscoe, who is the third guy in Simple Plan, to play the John C. Reilly part. And the studio was like, this Reilly guy's popping too hard. You have to... And he's pretty good in that movie.

In the movie, John C. Reilly. Yes, he's good. He has nothing to do. No. When he makes his run, that's cute. Sam Tuttle, who you know is one of the players is played by the burglar in spider-man michael papa john okay okay right the murderous burglar um but i'm trying to find okay larry joshua is his name is that the guy's

name this is the movie that gets jk simmons hired onto spider-man that's the other thing is like that character had been fan cast so much. Yes, he is the wrestling promoter in Spider-Man. Okay, thank you. Yeah, that character had been fan cast so much even like through the years of James Cameron's Spider-Man development. And people were always like, I think there was always the thought of what if Stan Lee played J. John Jameson himself because he's a mustache man, which fans always like the idea of. Jameson himself because he's a mustache man, which fans always like the idea of. And the other dumb, obvious casting that everyone always talked about was Arlie Ermey because they're like, it'd be great to put this guy in a flat top and have

him yell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when J.K. Simmons was announced, people were like, what the fuck are you talking about? He's so good. I know, but it was because of this movie where he doesn't have a lot to do. He's good. But he wears a mustache so well.

He's so good. And Sam Raimi was just like, I'm telling you, this is the guy. And people were a little perplexed i remember reading a spider-man issue where the movie was just coming together i think they perhaps had not cast toby dunst and defoe yet part of me remembers him being the first guy they cast when ramey came on and it was like the back letters page of amazing spider-man was a photo of jk sim. Simmons reading a Spider-Man issue with a cigar in his mouth. And he didn't have the hair, but he had the mustache. And it was

like the announcement of like, Sam Raimi believes he's found his J. Jonah Jameson. And fans were weary about it. And then what a fucking good call. Great call. He really wears the mustache so well. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful... I think his performance in this is... He's just... He just looks like a baseball well. It's beautiful. It's a, it's a beautiful,

I think his performance in this is, he's just, he just looks like a baseball man. Yeah. He looks, he looks exactly like the guy you see. The way he chews. The way he chews.

Look, I mean, I tweeted, is there no better, no one better cast. And a lot of people tweeted James Gammon in major league at me. And obviously James Gammon in major league is a, is a top choice there. Some people tweeted Philip Seymour Hoffman and Moneyball who's great you know like there are other good ones but this

is very good casting I think I want to tell you that Amy Robinson insisted they should at Yankee Stadium and everyone was like it's not gonna fucking happen she called George Steinbrenner on the phone and he picked up and she's like I want to do this movie with Kevin Costner and he was like Kevin Costner wonderful young man I watch his movie dances with wolves all the time i love kevin costner anything that young man wants to do must be very good and that was that was young man is funny to say about i mean i'm just imagining larry david saying these things obviously um but then his terms were like i love costner so much that we're gonna give you a lot of resources. Free, you know, reign. But he had all these demands about how the Yankees were depicted, right?

Well, some other things that Steinbrenner did. Was shocked that a woman had written the movie. Nice. Thought Sam Raimi was like a runner or something. It was like, you're the director. You look like a child. Which makes sense. Sam Raimi does have the energy of like Scooter from the Muppet Show. Sam Raimi has always looked like a

baby. He still looks like a little boy in like a First Communion suit. First Communion energy. He looks like his suit doesn't quite fit him right or whatever. As you said, he required that anyone dressed as a Yankee had to be an established actor or a professional baseball player. At least at like the collegiate level.

And I think a lot of like the coaches and the staff members and whatever. The real Yankees. Right. Right. I mean, we're going to get you know, so yeah, they had a lot of like the coaches and the staff members and whatever. The real piece. Right, right. I mean, we're going to get, you know, so yeah, they had a lot of CGI. They had 2,000 extras, which is a lot. That is a lot. But it's like 6,000 people. Yeah, they had a lot more cardboard people. Dimensionally challenged people, they say.

Koster was 44 years old. Okay. That's pretty old. Yeah. He'd be throwing baseballs. Apparently he was hitting 84 miles an hour on the radar gun which is pretty good he always i mean all the home video footage in this movie is like bullshit no get out of here costner always talks about how he like when he had played

baseball in college right he like he does have those guys who's like i could have gone pro yes exactly right he's absolutely one of those guys who constantly says... I feel like he made a better choice. Yeah, he absolutely did. He has good form. He does. He does. He looks proper. That's the other thing is like Tom Cruise could not... I can't see Tom Cruise throwing a baseball. I mean, I can see Tom

Cruise... For how much he would study it. He would never... It would never look natural. No. No. Costner just has it. The other thing that's insane in the notes is, and this is the thing Costner's only started talking about recently. Well, yes. Are you talking about the...

He was juicing. Well, he was hanging out at Yankee Stadium in 1998 with the New York Yankees. And he's like, I'm 44. I'm feeling the wear and tear. Look, I listened to the Bill Simmons podcast, and I remember this. You know, he's throwing 200'm 44 i'm feeling the wear and tear i look i listened to the bill simmons podcast and i remember this uh you know he's he's throwing 200 300 pitches a day when he's making this that's the thing he has to throw more pitches than an actual pitcher does so life is just

imitating art this is right as you put it i was seeing the actual trainer for the yankees the guy came to my rescue i started to take some stuff had to take a lot of stuff just to get through the day look I mean I don't know if like they were injecting him or they're just like just you know put a little of this on your couple blues a couple green you know the clear and the cream right like all that stuff that's fine that's good and I like it

so then wait for the last day they were going to simulate the whole game he's gonna have to pitch for about five hours he gets the trainer and he says what if you had a player who they were going to simulate the whole game. He was going to have to pitch for about five hours. He gets the trainer and he says, what if the player who's never going to play again, like Dave Cohn, it's his last game. Truly like leave it all on the field. Exactly. And the guy

said, you know, he was basically like, I need a couple green ones, a couple blue ones. And the guy was like, no, right. He's saying that he's saying, I need something you haven't brought out yet. And the guy looks him in the eyes and's like all right and then he basically you know shoots him up full of stuff and then the last thing he said to him is he's like sending him out onto the pitches you're gonna growl at a few people they gave him like the green goblin juice yeah i don't

know they were basically gonna be really hyped up. Just FYI. After what I just gave you. They put him in the green smoke tank. And he went in full goblin mode. But he says that one of the moments where he gets aggro, it was a genuine unplanned. If you ever look at that thing, I come off the mound when someone starts complaining. And something had snapped. I was not acting.

I just was really worked up. So, you know, it's just crazy because this movie is so gentle. I know that Costner was like, yeah, I got it. I got to get fucking Balco shit. But they also say that he kept on going around to people on set and being like, I really think this one's working. This is the best movie I've ever made. I mean,

I think that if you were juiced up, you might also be like, this is incredible. I imagine, I imagine steroids are just like cocaine. But it's like,

he's pot committed to this thing. He's like, I really, I'm going hard on this. I think you can see that in the movie. He feels very committed

to the movie in his performance. Especially the baseball. Yeah. He feels a little less committed to Kelly Preston. Of course, that is his character arc, I suppose. John C. Reilly, incredible casting to me. Yes. He looks like a catch.

Yeah, absolutely. Has no interest in baseball. Yeah. Even though he's from Chicago. You imagine this is a guy. I think this is offensive. I just imagine John C. Reilly at like Wrigley Field. He's a theater kid.

He's like a little theater boy. That's the thing about him. He looks like a catcher's mitt, but like at the end of the day, he's like, I want to do beer. He should be like pounding beer in his bar. I want to do American Buffalo. Yeah, exactly. He's like, I need to do True West. Do you know this?

Like John C. Reilly like collects clown paintings. Like paintings of clowns or paintings by clowns? That's weird. Yeah. Do you think it's, like, in the way that, like, he probably studied, like, Italian clowning? Is it, like, that kind of clown shit? He talks about, like, Dr. Steve Brule, like, being his clown persona. In that kind of, like, way.

That makes sense. Yes. But, yeah, he, you know. It's absolutely, though, the academic lofty love of clowns. Yeah, it's like Commedia That makes sense. Yes. But yeah, he, you know. It's absolutely, though, the academic lofty level of clowns. Yeah, it's like Commedia dell'arte. Yes, yes. I like that he, when you first see him, he's playing his little game boy. I do, too.

And it looks so tiny in his big hands. It's so little in his midst. I love that. And I think, look, as great as Brent Briscoe is, and obviously it worked well with Ramey. Brent Briscoe, who plays the dumb friend in A Simple Plan. And who actually has baseball experience. The studio said we're getting Riley. The guy's

up and coming. Right. Here's the thing that I think helps. Yeah. Briscoe and Costner read much closer in age at this point in time. I think it helps that there's a generation gap between Riley. Even down to the Game Boy

and the backwards hat and all that, like, he can't hold his liquor kind of stuff. It makes you realize how, like, aged Costner is. That he's, like,

can't keep up with this guy. I also like the part where Costner's like, I'm only pitching with Gus. Like, Gus is my guy. And it's like, oh, he probably came, like, halfway through your career

and you guys have just, like, bonded in this way. love that though whenever pitchers have a special catcher like Andy Pettit would always pitch to Jim Leyritz who is this guy who seemed like he had just like like escaped from a prison bus yeah and I was just like are they buds like is there just some sort of chat that they understand

like some banter there like I but that's the thing about baseball too there's a lot of like weird luck ritual. It's so built into the game. Supernatural about all that shit. Yes, that's true. Vin Scully, Costner requested. Have to have Vin Scully.

Great move. Unbelievable. Really helps the movie. Scully had never done anything like this. Like he'd maybe done 30 seconds of voiceover for a movie before, but he'd never done like a. He voiced Iago in Aladdin. uh he jafar i'm telling you this kid with the lamp they sent scully the script guess who wishes you was what didn't think it was very good but what do i know about scripts

says vin scully i went over to universal and their attitude was great so they convinced him it's just funny they sent him the script and I just loved it he's like I read the script piece of shit hokey garbage and then they said they would give me 1 million American dollars and I was like alright sure I'll do it and you know Ramey just let him improvise was just

like you know do your thing like you're Vin Scully incredible okay oh there was a reshoot of the final scene had Vin Scully. Who am I? Incredible. Incredible. Yeah. Okay. Oh, there was a reshoot of the final scene. Had Vin Scully suggested? The airport scene? No, the final baseball. Yeah, the final.

Sorry, the final baseball scene. It sounds like they shot a more sort of magical, natural-esque. Right. And he was like, you're getting this so right. You don't have to go this big. You should scale it down. It's a shame if you blow it. It's a really good that is like the best part of baseball is when everyone like rushes yeah to the like when

the cubs won the world series 2016 one of the last happy moments in america that was like really one of the greatest things i've ever seen in my life it was just like so electric and in this movie they kind of capture that really well here's the other thing i think vince gully got right and it's like i haven't seen the original ending right don't know what they did differently probably just a little more hyped up or whatever but as someone who barely understands these things i do think so often in these like historic moments the final play isn't the best play of the game it's the release of tension it's like fuck and now we've run out the clock and it's over and we get to also and that's why it's it

costner plays it so well where when it's the hit happens yeah he looks genuinely scared yeah he doesn't look like cool costner anymore no and then they're all excited that yeah it's either you or me kid that that thing of like he knows if this kid ends the perfect game it makes his career yeah and if he doesn't then costner gets to end with the perfect dramatic or i also think it's a really smart move that it's a perfect game and not a no hitter yeah because if it was just a no hitter it would be so boring it would be and it would it would be like oh it's just it's costner but now it's like oh it's the team so you get the moment where it's like, that guy missed the ball when they played the Red Sox. And then he gets to catch it when they play the Yankees.

Fucking comedy seller, comedian, standby, Greer Barnes plays that dude. Who's a really good comic. People always go like, why didn't he have a better acting career? And he just has a really good sort of like two-scene dramatic performance in this movie. He was in Joker, wasn't he? He was. I think he's one of the comedians. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Have you guys ever seen a perfect game? I've never seen one in person, obviously. No. But I watched Roy Holiday's perfect game. I remember that because that was, you know, in the postseason. Did David Cohn pitch a perfect game? David Cohn did pitch a perfect game in 1999. And the big one for when I was a kid is Jim Abbottott pitched a no-hitter you guys remember jim abbott i was saying this to my wife and she was like what are you talking about

you insane person does anyone remember jim abbott jim abbott played in the 90s and he was famous because he only had one hand and so the fact that he was a professional baseball player was absolutely like this like absurd achievement and then he pitched a no-hitter when i was like eight years old that's awesome he would wear the glove on his non-hand arm to cover yeah and then he would like do all this crazy shit for catching where he would like move the glove over and i could show it to you it's bizarre anyway um thank you for reminding me the thing i find most fascinating about this movie is that it feels so unramey like in almost every way, but then you think about it and it's a movie

about a guy trying his damnedest not to lose his hand and his girlfriend, which is the ultimate Sam Raimi movie. It is. That's true. Right? It's all about the hand and the girlfriend. Often his characters lose their hands. This is true. And lose the love of their life

and never get over it. And this guy somehow wins, but he holds on to the hand and the lady this is the thing though with this movie i feel like this is we're gonna get into the post-production what they can't decide about like is this a movie for grown-ups or for families yeah because like the baseball movie is basically a movie for families but the kevin costner movie is very much a movie for grown-ups yeah it's not like explicit or raunchy no but it is just about like grown-up shit where it's a late guy's kind of gonna grow up yeah he's coming off a message in a bottle which is like here's kevin costner and robin wright having a like later in life beach romance this sort of like he's he's crossed a threshold where it's not even just like

handsome adults falling in love it's like people who have already lived a couple lives falling in love which is not a thing that kids relate to easily unless you're my brother does kelly preston at this point that's a great question because because if she had jenna malone when she was 16 she's probably like what like 30 when they meet? Yeah, so Kelly Preston is, I'm seeing, she's about seven years younger than Kevin Costner. So she would have been like 37 when she shot this movie. Okay, okay. I think she's playing younger.

She is, yeah. She does get above the post, above the time you're doing it. I know, I know. When you see it on the poster, you're surprised. When you see the movie, you're like, well, she is in a lot. Yes, yes. But he just, Costner feels like, especially at this point in time, there's only one name.

To go back to what we were saying about, like, is Kelly Preston good in this movie or not, right? I can't say that she's good in this movie. I can't either. That would be tough. I can't either, but I also think what she's being handed is so difficult because she's simultaneously underwritten and overwritten.

She is underwritten as a character, and all of her dialogue is overwritten. Right. It's, it's so on the nose. Right. Oh my God. And I just kept on going like, this is all like try hard James L.

Brooks, Cameron Crowe style. They're looking for that sort of, is this not America? Right. But also the, like, are we going to talk about the thing that we're not going to talk about?

Kind of stuff. How do you like your, your dark meat? Do you like it ripped up like in a chef's salad or cubed the thing with the everyone should wear a poster a fucking oh and hers yes and then you're like which is not an answer to his question just all the examples you listed were adjectives and you're not describing yourself like everything about that is just a little bit too over asked her how she likes to be kissed she said yes and then here's my biggest gripe with this movie the kissing is so bad really bad they just smash their faces together and costar is like wriggling his head around yes you know he has that line in bullderm about how he likes like sloppy kisses or whatever he's a good kisser slop it up kevin slow, deep, soft, wet kisses the last three days. Slop them up.

That's his line in Bull Durham. I had to look it up to get the wording right. I think they're in this weird zone where like this feels like it should have been Meg Ryan. I'm not saying Meg Ryan could have pulled it off, but I think the version of this that Kelly Preston could do is a lot more sort

of small and emotionally grounded. And when they're trying to make her like Fliberty Gibbet, who has these like sort of winsome like sayings and is like trying to pull her life together, I don't think that plays her strong suits. I kept every time she had one of these like date scenes, I kept thinking about Richard Lawson and Bobby Fingers, game they used to play where they would come up with fake James L. Brooks lines.

And the best one they ever came up with was... You're kind of a person who's kind of a person. And the best one they ever came up with was kind of a person who's a kind of a person. Yeah, just like a perfect. I'm the kind of a person who's kind of a person. And it just feels like every scene she's got like four of those and they're not done at the level of those guys who, by the way, we cover both of their careers when those guys try to make those movies half the time they fuck it up. Right. But very few people can ever get it at the level that they get

it when it's cooking or in Efron or any of these people. Right? I love Kelly Preston in Jerry Maguire. Obviously. She's incredible. That's a perfect use of Kelly Preston. Addicted to love. Good use of Kelly Preston. Addicted to love. What are some other Kelly Preston movies I like? Hold on. Sure. What is she? She plays a mom

in something that I like. She probably does. That does sound sound like she has a great mom performance in sky high is that what i'm thinking she's really funny good in sky high fair enough okay but i do think when she was positioned in movies like this as the perfect woman earnestly it often didn't totally click and when she's in things like Jerry Maguire Or Addicted to Love where she is Quote unquote the perfect woman That people have to slowly realize Is not

She's really good She's so good in Jerry Maguire It's a 20 minute burst It's so small but it really She is incredible As you said everyone on set was like We're making a great movie There's the very funny of course Brian Brian Cox wrote about this in his memoir because.

Oh, because he had to go on a press tour for nine months. Like I had to talk about every celebrity ever. Is the book even out? I can't even tell. It was like it came out in the UK and he was like, I hate Johnny Depp. And then it came out in America and he had like more things to say. It kind of fucking sucked. I just feel like that's always what he's saying.

I already made this joke in a different episode, right? That the last chapter of the book is him shaming you for not having read it. David Sims, stop quoting from my book. Piece of shit. Fuck you. So Cox said that Sam Raimi said to him like, you know, you have to be high status in your scene. I know Kevin's a movie star. He might be difficult with that.

But you're the high status character. Right. And Cox in writing replies, this was because my character in the scene was higher I know Kevin's a movie star. He might be difficult with that. But you're the high status character. Right. And Cox in writing replies, this was because my character in the scene was higher status than Kevin's and Sam was worried that his real life status would bleed in to influence the scene. Sam, having not heard of this thing we call acting. Fuck off!

This is the whole thing with British actors. It's like American, like, you know, fucking Jared Leto is hanging from the ceiling. He's like, I'm Morbius. And Brian Cox is like, it's called acting, mate. Look, I'm a vampire now. See, that's how you do it. It's the fucking Olivier thing. Try acting, my boy.

Yeah. Apparently, after Cox and Costner did their first scene together, Ramey was like, how did you do so great? That was perfect. And Cox said, Sam, did you ever consider treating Kevin as an actor rather than as a movie star? Because I think that's what he wants. Don't know if that's true, but that's how Brian Cox thinks. I would believe that 100%. I would believe that.

Cox is good in this. I wish there was more of him. But this is that time when Cox just shows up for a scene or two. This is, you know. I love his little glasses. Good little glasses. You know, 25th hour adaptation. Well, like two years after this,

three years after this is the rookie where it's like now he's got the bigger part in the baseball movie. Yeah, and he's Dennis Quaid's dad. Right. Does he run a bar in that one too? He's always running bars in movies. He's always like your dad who runs a bar.

It's the golden age. The golden age is Brian Cox as dad you have a difficult relationship with who runs a bar. But he'll tell you a hard truth. Right. But he's gregarious to other people. To you, he gives it a little too straight.

All right, son, what do you want? Fuck off. I'm Hannibal Lecter. The original one. All the way back. I'll eat your face. Fuck off. So as we said,

Gavin Costner was given final cut by the studio, but the movie had to be under 130 minutes long, which this movie is not. And it had to be rated PG 13. So when this movie came in at 138, the studio was like, okay, we'll accept that.

So he cheated. They shouldn't have. It's too long. They should not have. This is a thing also that Amy Robinson said, or maybe it was Dan Stevens who said this, that there were two cuts. There was a Raimi cut and there was a

Costner cut. And the Raimi cut was tighter and it played like gangbusters and the Costner cut tested well, but not as well. And the cut that got released was a compromise cut. That's silly, but I understand it. But the other issue

is the film was rated R by the MPAA because it used the word fuck twice. The bartender says no cussing in my bar. Fuck. And Kelly Preston says, I just don't fuck like that after she has sex with Kevin Costner. And I believe she a scene in the big final negotiation where he's like trying to pull off a crazy move and he calls one of the other managers over the phone you pancake eating motherfucker that was i wouldn't say an ad lib but i don't think you can say motherfucker in any circumstances you can't you can't i think they even if you have no other fucks right so that's the thing the rule is like you get one non-sexual fuck, but motherfucker is too much for them. You can't do one motherfucker. It's an R.

They knew they wanted a PG-13 movie. They knew the rest of the movie was squeaky clean. It wasn't an ad lib, but it was on the day he was like, I want more impact on this line. Can I say motherfucker? And they kept pushing him to do alt. And he was like, I don't want to do an alt because if I give you the alt, they're going to use it him to do alt and he was like i don't want to do an all because if i give you the all they're gonna use it you're gonna use it i don't want to give you the option i feel so strongly that this is motherfucker and this is the moment

where everyone like pumps their fists right so he like dug his heels in i think there were maybe executives on set he was like being such a politician about it where he was like working everyone and like holding their hands and looking them in the eyes and he was like, trust me, this is important. This is worth it. The whole movie rests on this.

I bring this up as an interesting counterpoint because the movie was submitted to the MPAA. It got an R. Right. Off of that line. Yeah.

Which he demanded they not cut. Right. Lionsgate backed him up. They made an appeal. Uh made an appeal he personally made the appeal they accepted it the movie was released as pg-13 it is like kind of one of the only times right where he like he just threw sheer kevin costner power he gave his like the movie he gave his fucking speech right seven years old but there are truly so few instances of a movie getting re-rated without any edits.

What I find fascinating is I now realize how much of that story for him I think was vindication for this fucking thing. Because he literally gave like an interview to Newsweek, like blasting the studio being like they're cowards. He was mad because Universal didn't even try to fight the raider that was his thing they just cut it they just said we can't even do it it was two fox one non-sexual one sexual uh and he was like this isn't about you go see his butt in a shower scene right but he was like sorry they weren't my fox it wasn't about ego i was letting other people score i thought that was important moment for her character and that was one of the biggest laughs in the movie when the bartender says it and then he got into this whole thing about fucking

integrity and he's like courage what happened to the executives who made these movies and like the love of the movies i believe is waning in hollywood and it's given over to commercial instincts i mean i love it that he's going this hard for two fucks and his butt right but i mean i do love it and the line you mentioned earlier which is like i'm always gonna come down on the side of the movie and the people who pay eight bucks now they pay like 26 i know but he is this guy where that truly is i'll save the story to tell in a moment but no because this is like the best one I have about him. But I do think he is very smart about, in his head, being able to see the flow of a movie and how audiences will react to it. And like what small changes really push things one direction or another. And he's like, you can't just break this down into numbers and you have to have the feeling for the fucking thing.

And he like really resented that Universal didn't even try. And then when he was doing his perfunctory press for the movie, he was talking like really resented that Universal didn't even try. And then when he was doing his perfunctory press for the movie, he was talking about they gave up on it. So then Universal publicly was like, we don't really like that. Kevin Costner is holding

this asset hostage and dissuading audiences from wanting to see it. It's not fair for him to hijack a $50 million asset is what is what they said. Yes. And his thing was like,

our feeling is we have backed the filmmaker and his name is Sam Raimi, not Kevin Costner. But motherfuckers, you put it in the contract that he gets final cut. You don't hire Kevin Costner and not know that this is kind of what he's going to do. Especially at this point. To be fair, they put in the contract

that he gets final cut on a movie that's rated PG-13 and it's 130 minutes long. And their argument, which I think is fair, is they were like, we gave you the flyer on the length. The crazy thing is they actually offered to pay him $20 million. Right. They actually were like, you know what, we're sorry.

Right, because he was saying like, I waived my fee in order to be able to make the movie I wanted and now they're not letting me make it. And they're like, fine, we'll pay you $20 million if you stop shit talking our movie five days before five days before it comes out such a funny movie to get into this kind of fight about this movie and you're like and you're like this is this is your baby but then i'm it just makes perfect sense that 15 years later on draft day or whatever he's just like i will not lose this argument you have to trust me sam ramey diplomatic said i missed the

lines too i like the bartender's line. It's a great moment. The MPA wouldn't allow it. I understand Kevin's feelings. It's a very personal film for him. I use home movies of his dad and him in the opening credits. So Sam, you know, which is true. When that starts, I was like,

they got someone who really looks like Kevin Costner. Yeah. He's got a real Costner. Yeah, he got that JFK haircut. The things I was reading about the book said that the book is more like his entire life leading up to this moment. And the relationship's a big part of it, but it's also as much about his relationship to his parents. And you can see that a couple times when they like flashback to like his parents in the stand and stuff. And like that makes sense that a book would be like also his parents had a lot to do lot to do it does make you wish the movie wasn't so squarely focused on just this one

relationship i'm sure there's other stuff because his relationship with the other ballplayers is interesting yeah exactly the scene where he's helping the guy move that's kind of interesting yeah like i kind of do wish that it was like the whole life that if we did like a citizen yeah sure flash through the whole thing yeah i mean we did like a Citizen Kane. Yeah, sure. Flash through the whole thing. Yeah. I mean, it's tough with aging. I get, you know, you don't want Costner playing a 20 year old in this movie or whatever.

You should remake this movie and just use Irishman technology. He should do it now. Yeah. He should do it now. Right. And you do the Irishman thing. Not being age of any of this movie, he should do it all. But you did the Irishman thing where like for most of the movie he's 67 playing 45.

Right. And then for a couple unnerving scenes he's 23. Right. It's like, oh. It's kicking. Sam Raimi says,

I'm very happy with the film. It's a very real story about someone who grows as a person and becomes worthy of a woman's love. Okay, Sam. The other thing I like

that Raimi said there is the thing of like, I had no tension with the studio because we were both trying to make the same movie I wanted to make a like feel good populist emotional baseball film for American families I didn't have some darker

thing that they were like that I was pushing on it Kevin Costner's a real motherfucker in a good way mostly but these quotes i mean like he really goes off i mean i can't read them all out it's just but it's just a lot of he he he really believes in this shit even if it's a movie like you know that's sort of like a gentleman six at best or whatever he was at such an absurd level of movie stardom. He had a run that is just so insane.

When you look at him from like 85 to 94 or whatever, it's just like unbelievable the amount of classics he made. And movies that were not just huge, critically beloved hits at the time, but have all aged into like cable TV rotation Hall of Fame, right? Yeah. And then you put Dances with Wolves at the exact midpoint of that golden run. And it's the moment where everyone was like,

this guy's getting too fucking big for his britches. He's going insane. He's making this self-indulgent piece of shit. Who wants to watch this three-hour Western? Everyone in the press is calling it Kevin's gate. And then it is the most triumphant shit in the world. And I do think that Bolden's a guy like this, where he was just like, everyone fucking questioned all of my instincts, and I stuck to my guns, and I could not have been any more right.

Where he does, I think, every time he's in a position like this, and he has an instinct go like, I know I'm correct about this, and I don't care who I upset in trying to get there. He was never people's sexiest man alive. Kind of absurd. That's shocking to me. i feel like that's messed up yeah like they really had to give it to harry hamlin in 87 yeah come on people there was a period where he was one of the sexiest men alive yeah it's true you also feel like he's the guy they would have created that title for like it would be called people magazines kevin costner of the Year, still today.

Can you guys tell me who the last sexy Savannah Live was? Paul Rudd. Paul Rudd. Oh, right. Ghostbusters Afterlife. Because, yeah, it was Afterlife, and then also that show where he's twins, maybe?

Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no, Shrink Next Door. It was Shrink Next Door. Shrink Next Door, right. It was Ruffalo who was twins. Yes. No, no. But Rudd also did a twin show that no one remembers.

Oh, right. He did the cloning show. What cloning show? He did a cloning show. You're pointing at Olivia like she did it. No, I knew that he had a clone show. He did a Dayton Ferris cloning show. It was like a Netflix show?

Yes. Living With Yourself. Yes. Yeah. The weird shit about streaming television, man. I watched all of it in one night. You watched all of it? I'm a big Rudd stan.

I love Rudd. And I watch it. And I think on a like technical level, the thing that all these actors love to do where they act against themselves or whatever, he does that incredibly well. But it is one of the most peak TV shows I've ever seen where I'm like,

this is a movie. This is a movie. And I'm now watching hour eight of this. And you're trying to find subplots that do not need to be there. This thing should be over. And the season kind of ends on a cliffhanger they will never do another season of that if that was a movie i would give it an eight as a series i give it a two well do you guys think this movie could be a tv show sure why not give me i'm just thinking all the

one game for however many seasons they want to go i I was just thinking like this movie specifically is never this movie doesn't even work on streaming as a movie. This does not get made. I feel like they've tried obviously. There's been various baseball TV shows. It does seem good for movies. It's great for movies. It's a little less kinetic so it's probably

easier to do all of the sports stuff. I kind of need it on a big screen. It's nice on a big screen. But you know what else is nice on a big screen? Everything. Yeah, movies. It's nice to see things on big screens. Don't you think?

I love it. Okay. My pitch would be to make a baseball movie about the guy who did a no-no on LSD. Oh, sure. Oh, Doc. What's his name? Doc ellis yeah ellis there you go yes that's an incredible story yeah yeah have you seen the documentary that's like largely

animated yes yes which is cool david david wells pitched a perfect game in 98 i think and uh for the yankees and said he was he had like a five alarm hangover during the entire thing he'd been partying with seth meyers bill hater no not bill hater the entire thing. He'd been partying with Seth Meyers, Bill Hader, no, not Bill Hader, but like Lorne Mayer. He'd been partying with SNL people or something. I don't want to jinx it, but now that we're talking about it again,

we still haven't fucked up this entire episode. We actually haven't met. All the jokes have been good and great insights. I haven't taken any notes. You haven't. You cleaned the machine. I'm sitting next to Ben. It's a blank legal pad. If we're wrapping up,

we should probably thank some of the sponsors for the episode. Boys Noise Canceling Headphones. Are you tired of listening to boys? Got some out. Too much noise from your boys Yeah I got it okay great Uh AT or T

You have to pick now Hey You have a problem with lunch You're starving food jar Put in your mouth no chefs were involved God I forgot how many ads We crammed into this episode uh okay a new service cod pass oh yeah sorry

all right um what's the riley model just throw right when riley gets hits the mound he's like just throw it don't worry about it it's now like it's a line about a line about a line. But the fucking moment in Moneyball when Jonah Hill plays the tape, the Brad Pitt of the guy not realizing that he hit a home run. And he says, whatever, like it's hard. How can you not get romantic about baseball? Every time there's one of those lines in this movie where it's like just pitch. I'm like, how can you not get romantic about baseball? I love it.

I love anytime he's talking to himself. I love him talking to Riley. I don't really know why he sends the baseball to Brian Cox with for love of the game written on it. He says, tell him I'm through. I know he's right. I know he's he's saying I'm retiring, which is makes sense. I do think the moment where his trainer like looks at the ball

and then looks back is kind of nice. Like, I think it's just like a nice I like the shot of the ball. Yeah. Does he write a ball for the nephew as well? No he sends it

to the nephew and then I think the nephew looks at it and is like this is not for me. Like hands it to Brian Cox. To Brian Cox

who of course plays Gary Wheeler. Wait a second. Wait a second. What? I cannot believe it took me this long to say the most important thing that needs to be said.

What? Am I wrong? The crack of the bat. The crack of the bat. Am I wrong that the gummo kid is in this movie? The kid from gummo is in this movie? The kid from gummo in the bathtub with the bacon taped to the wall.

I mean, I know who you're talking about, but he's in this movie? I think he's in this movie for like three shots. Who is he? Because, I mean, he was just a creepy looking kid. Oh, Jacob Reynolds. Fuck. I almost missed it.

He's in For the Love of the Game briefly. As who? I don't know. He's like in the locker room at the beginning when Kevin Costner is talking to Gruber Barnes. He looks like a little rat. He's like a long head. He's like a bat boy or something.

He's credited as Wheeler's nephew. Oh, he's the nephew. He's the nephew. And he's like a bad boy he's credited as wheeler's nephew he's the nephew and he right and he delivers the ball to cox that's him wow this is the perfect episode well any other uh big scenes we need to talk about cutting his hand a little jenna malone i want to just do a little talk about the Jenna Malone career. Right? Well, before we jump in. She was a premier young actress. Do you guys know why Jenna Malone was in the news recently?

No. Oh, yes. She was part of or witnessed a citizen's arrest. Yes. She like spearheaded a citizen's arrest of a man who was kicking a dog. And she just was like talking on. Yeah, she was just talking about it on the news. And it was, she wasn't, the chyron wasn't like Jenna Malone montage yeah she was just talking about it on the news and it was

she wasn't the chyron wasn't like Jenna Malone actress it was just like woman I sent this to Ben

yesterday before I had started watching this movie and I don't think I knew Jenna Malone was even in this movie but I sent it to Ben and Ben's girlfriend

right away because the headline I saw was Jenna Malone hits a reverse paw patrol performs citizen arrest to rescue a dog. Right, because Ben, of course, famously cried at Paw Patrol. Do you know this story, Olivia?

No. Ben was on a plane with his girlfriend. His girlfriend looks over, sees Ben sobbing uncontrollably, like something horrible has just happened. And goes, what's wrong? And Ben points forward. The plane is on the runway. It has not taken off yet okay ben is peeping as he's want to do between the crack in the seats in front of him there's a little boy

who is watching the paw patrol movie ben is overseeing this uh-huh without headphones no audio and he just witnesses the visuals and ben is truly tearing up as i'm explaining this yeah the opening the cold open of the paw patrol movie is there was a turtle trying to cross a bridge and a man notices the turtle and swerves out of the way so as not to hit the turtle and he almost falls off the bridge and the paw patrol has to save him and ben could not process that is so sweet i was gonna say red in the face truly he's truly choked up right now i thought you would have been in the air when you started crying no no no no they were like that's what usually we're still taxiing we're waiting and ben's like sobbing watching it gets me it

just gets me he's a good guy and they him. He was doing a good deed. Ben liked that he did a good deed. And he liked that the Paw Patrol recognized the deed and did a good deed to help him. And Jenna Malone is the real life. The real life Paw Patrol. Yeah. Though they did kind of beat that guy a little bit too much. It seemed like they were really bailing on him.

They really were. They kind of locked him a little too much. There's like a construction worker in that video beating the man with a pole Like it's really crazy But Jenna Malone saved the day She has this run This is the peak of it Where she is Hollywood's preeminent

A little bit rebellious daughter She's just a little bit rebellious Stepmom Before that of course she is in contact Right as little Jodi Stepmom is that of course she is in Contact Right as little Jodi Stepmom is the year before this And then she was in Cheaters

Where she Cheated in a decathlon Well this is the transition Then she becomes Hollywood's preeminent Or maybe Indiewood's preeminent Understanding girlfriend to a dark teen boy So Donnie Darko, Life is a House,

Dangerous Life of Alter Boys is a big one. United States of Leland, remember that? All these dark boys. She gets them. No one else does. Saved. She's kind of the leader. That's her. And that's finally she is the thing. I remember her in Cold Mountain where she's like, I'm one of the people in Cold Mountain.

You know, because that whole movie is like, Jude Law's like, what's your deal? I'm Philip Seymour Hoffman and I'm in Cold Mountain where she's like I'm one of the people in Cold Mountain you know like that whole movie is like Jude Law's like what's your deal? I'm Philip Seymour Hoffman and I'm in Cold Mountain I'm Natalie Portman and I'm in Cold Mountain she's really good in that scene I just think it was a weird choice that every time an established actor has to introduce themselves

by saying I am blank name and I'm in Cold Mountain my actual like legal name I'm in Cold Mountain yeah My actual like legal name. I'm in Cold Mountain. Yeah. Ballad of Jack and Rose is she's kind of a what is she in that?

No, she's not a big part in that. I'm trying to remember. She kind of blows up on the internet when she's in The Hunger Games. Oh, right. She is a big fan favorite. She's Joanna.

She's a big fan favorite from that movie. She's really good and in Heron Vice. She's never big fan favorite. She's a fan favorite. She's Joanna. She's a big fan favorite from that movie. She is. She's really good in Enhanced Vice. She's never left us. No. No. She's really been working for like 30 years.

Yeah, that's the thing. It's always felt like it's Jenna's time, you know, concluding. I just think it's funny that she had like such a type. She and Rachel Wood, though, were really in similar spaces. Right. She had such a type. And then she transitioned to a new very specific type and then her career is

never winning but she just does a lot of shit yeah it feels like maybe she could have been Kristen Stewart yeah at one point that's the thing she never quite got to superstar right she's a neon demon as well she's good in what no no no I was agreeing with you she's

bad or she's a lot in Pride and Prejudice she's sort of what uh no no no i was agreeing with you she's bad or she's a lot in pride and prejudice she's sort of weird casting in that movie she's really like she's american it's pike mulligan malone nightly is a bizarre grouping is she the one who's like i'm 27 years old and i have no prospects no that's rosamund okay great um no she's the litt the one who's like i'm 27 years old and i have no prospects no that's rosman okay great um no she's the littlest one who gets in trouble and marries someone she shouldn't um but uh but she so she's lydia but she's the one she's really good and i don't really remember her and she's the sister oh that's no i do remember her she is good really fucking good that scene is

really wrenching at the start messenger The messenger she's like exceptional in. Yeah. That's sort of a forgotten movie. Oh, I forgot I saw that movie. That movie's really upsetting. It's very sad. She's in Sucker Punch. Then she gets...

Well, that's true. Is she one of the girlies in Sucker Punch? I think being in Sucker Punch actually is a full career curse. That is actually a curse. Yes. Because Jenna Malone, Emily Browning, Abby Cornish, and Vanessa Hudgens are the sub-carpet girls. Do you know what's ballist bad too? That was like coming off of 300, he got the five hottest actresses in Hollywood to all commit to that movie.

And that film was announced as like Emma Stone, Evan Rachel Wood. Like it was like the five biggest in that age group. And then one by one, all of them dropped out. And the people who replaced them, all of them had like the setback of that tough career i watched that movie a bunch in high school because my friends and i would just get really stoned and watch sucker punch that is certainly um and that's kind of the only way to watch it is being like 16 years old and pretty high i resented the fact that when the movie came out i was no longer 16 but i like the window had closed it's like that version of sweet dream starts playing and you're like this is kind of cool you know who is a snack who is an old school crackerjack in sucker punch john ham no although he is obviously snackable

no oscar isaac oh yeah okay so it was originally amanda seyfried evan rachel wood emma stone and then the two people who stayed involved were Abby Cornish and Vanessa Hudgens. That's tough. But the three big ones all dream. That movie is bad. That movie is like really kind of reprehensible. Yes, it is. And it's one of the reasons I am very skeptical of the sort of like, next night or how he

ain't so bad. I'm like, I don't know, man. Sucker Punch is a pretty tough watch. Yeah. Anyway, and now everyone's going gonna be mad at me probably but do you remember gem alone was announced in batman versus superman everyone's like she's playing carrie kelly she's playing robin they're gonna do the coolest robin it's gonna be carrie kelly because she cut her hair short and she did the red hair and everyone's like she's fucking carrie kelly and then she was not in the movie and she's in the extended cut and i feel like

it's a scene where like lois lane goes to research something And she's in the extended cut. And I feel like it's a scene where Lois Lane goes to research something. And she's like the woman at the desk who checks the thing on the computer. Correct. She was not playing Batgirl or Robin or anything like that. She was playing someone called Janet Clyburn. Of course. My favorite character. Yes.

For the Love of the Game opened on September 17th 1999 It's a fall Part of me thought They were positioning this for like Fucking Thanksgiving or Christmas Well maybe if they hadn't had like a War with Kevin Costner they would have I don't know Yeah

It opened number two it made 13 million It grossed 35 domestic 46 worldwide Movie cost more than that It opened number two. It made $13 million. It grossed $35 domestic, $46 worldwide. Movie cost more than that. Yeah. It wasn't that well reviewed. Can you read the Ebert review? Because it's a real fucking body blow.

You know those quizzes they run in women's magazines about testing your relationship? For Love of the Game is about the kinds of people who give the wrong answers. It's the most lugubrious and sloppy love story in many a moon, a step backwards for Sam Raimi after Simple Plan.

Another movie in which Kevin Costner plays a character who has all the right window dressing, but is neither juicy nor interesting. Jesus. One and a half stars folded them like long hammer blows. I mean, this movie

really goes that hard. But people were sick of Costner because the fall was still in effect. hard. But people were sick of Costner. Really sick. Because of the fall was still in effect. Yes. Right? So everyone was sick of how, you know, self-involved he seemed or whatever. I do think there was that thing, too.

When you read the reviews of this, where people are like, he doesn't do anything. Everything he says is like a whisper. Right. He's so stoic. How is this a good actor? I don't see him promoting. He gets a Razzie nomination for this. That is really kind of crazy to me.

This is not his best performance, but that's absurd. Yeah. Because it's like, the best parts of this movie are when he That is really kind of crazy to me. But that's absurd. Yeah, because it's like the best parts of this movie are when he's like on the mound talking to himself. Or just Kevin Costner being Kevin Costner. Right, that's like the magic of this film. Yeah. But Kevin Costner is like a three-time Razzie winner, seven-time

nominee. They just like going after him. The nominees at the Razzies that year, it's okay. So Kevin Costner gets a split nom for this and message in a bottle. Kevin Kline for Wild Wild West. Okay. Sure. He's good in that.

Good is strong. Arnold Schwarzenegger in End of Days. I think he's fine in that. These are all just kind of like. The Razzies are the worst. Robin Williams in Bicentennial Man. All right. Correct.

No problems there. And then Sandler winning for Big Daddy. They hated him. They did. That's weird, though. But that's stupid. The Razzies would love any time there was... They gave Bruce Willis...

Obviously, they recently had this whole thing. Right. But the year before, they gave Bruce Willis worst actor for Armageddon. Like, he's great at Armageddon. Like, that's stupid. They love anytime there's a new star

they can pile on and then they can, like, fucking attack them for years in a row. What's the other thing I was going to say? We're razzing the razzy. They fucking suck.

You better start. Yeah, we raz the razzy. That's what we do here. Because this came up, I feel like in the Simple Plan episode, I was noticing, just because this is the peak moment, Jenna Malone, I feel like in the Simple Plan episode, I was noticing, just because this is

the peak moment, Jenna Malone, I was like, did this movie get any nominations, right? And the one I found... Did she get a Kids' Choice Award?

It's weirder. It is weirder. She, Jenna Malone, received, let me just get the wording of this correct, a Blockbuster

Entertainment Award nomination for favorite supporting actress drama slash romance. Yes. I bring this up because in Simple Plan, Becky Ann Baker got a Blockbuster Entertainment Award nomination for favorite supporting actress in drama slash thriller for taking a shotgun blast. She takes that incredibly well.

Incredibly well. But some of these categories and nominations are bananas. The Blockbuster Entertainment Awards, not to speak ill of them, had a lot of categories because they had like action, comedy, comedy, romance,

drama, drama, romance, horror. Right. They had to fill them out. So it wasn't that hard to get. Liam Neeson was nominated for The Haunting that year. Right. Okay.

I'm trying to give you some others. I was just going to say some recent winners. Well, they're done. They ended in 2001. They couldn't get over 9-11, truly. They were like, out of respect to the climate, people are renting less videos. We will not be doing a ceremony in the wake of 9-11.

And they never started it up again. Huh. There's an insane sort of very portentous quote I read about like the landscape has changed. People are not bringing home videocassettes in the wake of the terrifying tragedy. But the thing I read was that the first year because their whole thing was like, we want to be the Oscars for the stars that people love who are never going to win an Oscar. Like Schwarzenegger, Stallone.

Like all these actors I'm sure I'm reading this and are like, thanks? You're telling me? Doesn't Stallone have an Oscar? No. No. Nomination. No. Never mind.

But the first year they had separate categories for theatrical releases and home video releases. But the home video release nominations weren't for direct to video movies. They were movies that had recently been released on video. And they were like it was this clusterfuck where they have like 18 categories for each genre and then doubled into both theatrical and home video. And it was like Sandra Bullock, one actress for Speed twice. So did you get it like two years in a row? No, the same year if the release goes. So they were like, she won best theatrical movie actress.

And she was like, thank you. And she sits down and they're like, and the nominees for best actress in a home video thriller. And she was like, I have to fucking get up there again. I just think this is such a weird fucking thing. We want to have the entertainers who are truly public favorites like Arnold Schwarzenegger,

Sylvester Stallone, John Covey. I'm going to cut you off. You've got to stop. It's the last thing. Can I read one final thing? Okay, okay. This is what they said

in November 2001. Due to the uncertainty of the times, we can't predict consumer response to our show nor audience behavior, especially media

viewing habits, all of which are being affected by world events i'm gonna say that's a little convenient that's kind of like a they got an exit wait i have one thing to say about jenna malone in this movie please which is that this is just kind of a plot thing but when she's at usc and she sees him just like eating at a cafe and her friends are like heather heather she doesn't really she's not like that's my old stepdad she's just like hold on i gotta talk to this old man yeah and then he kisses her on the forehead do you think she explained no what was going on i would

be so freaked out if i saw my friend there's also the weird scene on the team's private jet where the other players are holding up i didn't get what that was they're just guessing how old she is is that what it is that's what i thought it might be and i was like there's no way it's something that disgusting right i don't know i didn't like that one i didn't like that moment look i mean there's little tinges of impropriety to this movie even though it's an autumnal baseball movie about a man there's that part where he's like kicking the flashlight but he's like down under the sheets she goes what are you she's like what are you doing down there and it's like well okay if kevin costner is down there you should just say thank you but he's getting the flashlight and then he's like it's a vibrator

and he's like no i know i understand why there's so many oh he said she goes like you found my flashlight and he goes oh it works as a flashlight too yeah and then he says like now I know where there's so many batteries down there and it's like you're making jokes about her fucking her flashlight and also you're not gonna go down on her yeah it's like that whole scene is like really weird really strange I wanted to ask

Olivia what you thought of the title of her column what oh it's called like sense and sensibilities I'm like what journalist title of her column what oh it's called like sense and sensibilities and sensibilities i'm like what journalist and what like what are you writing about this is a classic like you could live like that on a column in a magazine in the 90s but like the apartment is beautiful you're making 200 grand yeah i think we're supposed to think checking you know

with her face next to it. She writes each article on a different notepad. Yeah, she has a notepad just for lip gloss. I was like, that's crazy. She goes like, I'm working on four pieces. The only way I can visually show this is they each get a separate notebook and then I have one notebook just for grocery lists.

Wow. It's such a weird, it was one of those things where it's like, do you know what, have you met a journalist yes like three no that's where it feels like this character is out of a meg ryan rom-com yeah where we don't have to worry about realism no meg ryan would be really good in this movie i also think holly hunter might be good either one would be good yeah holly hunter would yeah that she's overqualified she's incredible yeah i said helen hunt maybe that's rude no helen hunt would be good too i think it's not to be rude to kelly presson but it's not her fault but she is probably the wrong casting choice for this movie in this time like i can really

imagine meg ryan again when they meet just being like i don't need your help i don't need your help like leave me alone i'm fine as written meg Ryan could probably, through sheer movie star charisma and how honed her persona was at this point in time, made this work. Or you want it to be someone like Holly Hunter or Helen Hunt, and they rewrite it a little bit to suit them better. The film opened number two.

It's up against a comedy, a new comedy that beats it. September 2000. It's the box office game. September 1999. Correct. It's a new comedy that beats it. September 2000. It's the box office game. September 1999. Correct. It's a new comedy. It's a comedy,

an action comedy starring a comic actor. It's an action comedy starring a comic actor. Yes. In 1999. You got this. It's one guy.

It's not a Teen Milk movie. One guy. You got this one guess. You've played cops in other movies. Is it Eddie Murphy? No, but you're on the right track. Hmm. Is it...

Oh, oh, oh. Is it Blue Street? Black Center comedian. It's Blue Streak. Martin Lawrence in Blue Streak. I'm going to try to pitch a perfect box office game. No false guesses. From Les Mayfield,field of course the director

of encino man right miracle on 34th street and flubber uh a perfect career he retired much like chapel billy chapel well he retired after code name the cleaner that seems to be the one that retired for love of the game um sent the ball to brian i've never seen blue streak i haven't either which is funny because i feel like I would have seen it. Yeah, and I'm so in on that era of Luke Wilson, too. Famously, it's yes, Luke Wilson is the second lead in that. Dave Chappelle is in it. Famously, there was a script written for it, a sequel,

that they then turned into the Chris Rock, Anthony Hopkins, buddy cop comedy, Bad Company. But they made a really interesting choice when they turned it into that movie, which is they took out all of the jokes. No jokes. Zero jokes. I just cannot, I would love to know,

like what, well, maybe we'll do Joel Schumacher one day. Can I say this so quickly? Yes, I feel like you've said it before. Blue Streak is, he is a criminal. He's like stealing jewels or something. He hides it in an abandoned building before he gets arrested so that when he gets out of jail, he can go back in there and retrieve the jewels. And when he was in prison, they turned it into a police precinct. So the only way to get access to the jewels is to pretend to be a cop.

That's fun. And I think by the end of the movie, he proves himself and becomes a real cop. So the question is for the second movie, how can you fish out of water him again? So the premise is for the second movie how can you fish out of water him again so the premise is cia he has a identical twin who you've never heard of before who was a cia agent and they come to him chris rock's twin is dead and he has he got killed on the job you need to take over his mission so you heighten it to cia and then right in bad company it is chris rock playing a serious cia guy who died and now has to fill in for him he's like what are you talking about i don't cia i i don't know whatever he

maybe has one joke in that movie and anthony hopkins is like you must be serious now come on now what are we talking about can i cash international onset can you make it out to cash now that i want to know because hopkins was at at the Oscars and he even had a little comment. He said, what more is there to say that Will Smith didn't already, hasn't already? He should have gone up there and said, like, I worked with Chris Rock on Bad Company.

I consider Chris Rock a good man. Do you think he even remembers that that movie happened? I sat him down and I'm like, come on, Tony, you remember this? Do actors just kind of forget the bad ones? I mean, Anthony Hopkins has made a few bad ones. Yeah. Right.

He's got some memory holing he could do. Right. All right. Okay. Blue Streak. Number two is For the Love of the Game. Number three is The Biggest Hit of the Summer. We discussed it on this podcast.

Armageddon. The Biggest Hit of the Summer. It is Sixth Sense, still holding strong. Because it biggest hit of the summer it is Sixth Sense still holding strong because it was it was later in the summer late August it was an August film

yeah the biggest hit of the summer was Phantom Man but that was well that's May I guess that's true but come on the Sixth Sense

yes humongous the story of the season yes number four is a horror film starring a female actress. Okay. I'm going to try. Female

actress. I'm going to try to go for it. I'm trying to pitch a perfect box office game. I'm going to see if I can do this without any further hints. I'll tell you one more further hint. It's very useless. It was number one the week before. It's fallen far. Okay. I wish you hadn't given that to me because I feel more confident that I have it now. So it's the movie Stigmata.

Yes. Pitching a perfect game. Now, can you tell me who directed Stigmata? I can't, but that doesn't count. I know. Well, isn't it the devil? Who directed it? Sajan himself. You guys should do the devil on this.

You should do a devil miniseries. We'll do a Patreon. That's a fucking genius idea. Just pick like truly evil movies. Truly evil movies. It's Rupert Wainwright Of course who eventually would go on to make The Fog Remake

Quite boring yes I feel like Chevy Chase would be in one of those movies Yeah the karate dog Directed by the devil I think yeah like the Lone Ranger The new one I was gonna say That's one of the most cursed With multiple cursed people in the movie I think yeah like the Lone Ranger the new one I was gonna say that's become

one of the most cursed living movies right with multiple cursed people in the movie we're not gonna harp on this but it really

that movie becomes more cursed with every year every passing day Sucker Punch could be in a Devil miniseries yeah number five

of the box office is also a horror film okay an underrated one in my opinion I'm gonna take the swing again is also a horror film okay an underrated one in my opinion i'm gonna take the swing again is it stir of echoes that's right box office game no wrong guesses griffin

because you remembered of course that stir ofia is very similar to Sixth Sense. Yes. And, you know, kind of got its own lunch. And I also, I was like, David says it's underrated. Because he loves it. Because there must be some bacon on that dish. He loves his bacon. Yeah.

Sturvecchia's a good movie. Also in the top ten, Runaway Bride. Still hanging in there from July. Yeah, and it's eighth week. Cute. Huge hit. Another art imitates life movie that's true one of the great stories that julia roberts i love it i mean keep yourself for jason patrick it is for jason

patrick right yeah keifer's best friend for love of the patrick for the love of the patrick um for love of the patrick for love of the patrick yeah no and then they did a play together recently they've like now mended the relationship. I think, yeah. Julia Roberts and Kiefer Sutherland? No. Kiefer Sutherland and Jason Patrick did the winning season. The play written by Jason Patrick's dad.

Yeah, of course. And people were like, so things are cool between you? And they're like, it got cool when we started rehearsing. We hadn't talked for 20 years. Now we drink whiskey and talk about that. That's really, yeah. The championship season, sorry. You've also, yes, right. Thomas Crown Affair,

a classic. Good movie. Great movie. Bowfinger, a classic. I love that movie. Murphy and Martin, threw it on recently. Darker than I remember. It's really dark. The whole thing with the fake Scientology Center.

Yeah. And the flashing. We were talking about the flashing the other day. But you just can't. Steve Martin's original draft of this movie, and I think maybe they shot it this way, was at the premiere. A terrorist comes in and blows up the entire theater. And the studio was like, what are you talking about?

He's like, I don't know. I just hate this whole fucking industry. These people should all die. And the thing about Bowfinger, it's really acidic. It's also so goofy. And it's a weird mix. It's so silly. And then it's also like really.

Everyone in Hollywood is basically a sexual assaulter. Everyone in the movie is like an asshole. Right. They were like, we will let you do this as long as the ending is happy. So they reshot and added the karate movie thing at the end. Which is good. Right. I remember that killing in the theater. Absolutely just like yeah it was like a good call

i mean eddie murphy running across the freeway is literally one of the funniest things i think ever non-stop and i also think it is a stunning piece of film like you watch it and you just cannot believe and you are like he is going to die right i am going to watch this special effects it's like perfectly filmed it is somehow both funny and thrilling it's great murphy should have won the fucking oscar for that he's good in both roles he's good in both roles they should have given him the fucking kevin spacey year they should have given it to him he has people trying on clothes for him and he's like do the thing and the people hold up the face yes shake a spear shake a spear Eddie Murphy. Shake a spear.

Shake a spear. You already said shake a spear. Yes. Number nine. The 13th Warrior. Antonio Banderas, cannibal, medieval drama. Number ten. Mickey Blue Eyes. Uh-oh. Hugh Grant's gotten himself into a situation.

Oh, no. This guy. I saw that in theaters don't remember it Remember it being bad Number 11 this is the most interesting Opening this week on 16 screens To $53,000 per screen American Beauty Wow

The world was about to change Better or worse Talking about demon movies The movie that starts with Kevin Spacey jerking off in a shower and being like fuck you there is no crime in art you've also got let me be frank

you've also got he didn't do one this year it's soft you want to talk about let me put some barbecue sauce on his ear box this is just the young kid hitting the ball we're gonna get him out

this is a foul he just caught it what's his name caught it there you go you did say though we should do a patreon series a movie directed by the devil if he makes one more

we could just do the let me be frank we're never doing that to be clear he just needs one more I think it just do the Let Me Be Frank. We're never doing that, to be clear. He just needs one more. I think it needs to be four. Let Me Be Frank. What a good movie.

What am I talking about? Totally average movie. Five out of ten. There was a point where I was like, this is a two. And then when he finishes the perfect game, I was like, this is a soft five. And then the airport scene maybe knocked him back down to a three. Oh, my God. The coat he's wearing in the airport, though, is really good.

That like long brown number. I like the I like so many of the ideas. Like, I like the idea that she's at the airport bar and she's like, I'll watch him for an inning. And then when his arm hurts, she's like, his arm hurts. You know, and they're like, what does she know? And then that guy is like, this guy's a bum. I like that the guy who screams this guy's a bum. Yeah.

At the end is cheering. He's like, perfect. I really like how that happens in the stadium, too, that by the end, they're like cheering for him. Which is how it would be. Of course. If I watched a perfect game. I'll also say the moment that feels the most Rami-ish to me and which I do think

is actually very well directed is the moment of the hand injury. I do think the way they set that up in the long shot with him on the bandsaw and then you cut to her coming out with two cups of coffee

and everything's nice and you have that ominous feeling and then you realize it's already happened. You like turn around and it's like, oh, so yucky. Right, it's leading onto the snow.

He doesn't cut away. Costner's like lightheaded. She's trying to collect it. She puts the snow in his hand. Like, I think that whole moment is very well. I also think the part where he is getting into the medevac ushered in by Daniel Dae Kim, if you noticed. Yes, Daniel Dae Kim.

He comes back as a scientist in Spider-Man 2. But he's like, you have to call the trainer. That's the person who's the most important to me right now. I was like, that's a good like asshole. It is. Yes. Quietly brutal. He doesn't really mean it that way but he also but it's like baseball is his first right oh yeah and the porky did not like that line she was very mad that he said i would be so pissed especially because she just moved heaven and

earth for your stupid hand she oh my god and she's driving on the mountain which is like if you've ever driven on a mountain it's one of the scariest things you can do no thank you it's awful hate it the switchbacks it's a nightmare and to do that while your love is like bleeding out next to you yeah i'd be over the cliff i do like it is the moment just taking a shortcut baby is the moment the movie where i maybe agree with kelly pressing the most is when he comes to that fucking event and she's dating that pretentious guy. And he's like, what's going on here? And she's like, it's been four and a half months. And he's like, well, you know what I've been doing for the last four and a half months.

And she's like, you have never asked me once what I was doing the last four and a half months. You just didn't even consider. He's married to the game, but eventually he'll have to retire. And then you get all Costner all the time. Yeah. But I do like when he puts John C. Reilly to bed and then he goes to his own hotel room and just starts sobbing.

He's really like, oh man. It's kind of cool. Costner sobbing a white guy. And it makes sense that so much wound up, you know. His hotel room, by the way. Gorgeous. He got the real he's the star i want to be that kind of a famous person where you go to a new york hotel and the guy is like of course mr costner i have your fake name ready no one's bothering i love holly like celebrity fake names

what's his fake name in those two it's something from a movie right or tv show where he's it's a character i don't remember what it is do you guys have one picked out for yourselves yeah uh producer ben hosley aka the best i can't type all this out yeah in notting hill she does like disney names right she's like i'm like fred flintstone or whatever right i don't think pocahontas would be a good idea no this is so i'm sorry can i just read this quickly i know we're done I just have to read this quickly. I was trying to see if I could find what the fake name is, but I found something even better. I'm going to be trivia, so take it as you will.

It was reported that Kevin Costner was angry with Universal Pictures because they cut his full frontal shower scene. Not tush. No. Costner told Newsweek that the studio lacked real courage by insisting the film had a family friend in the writing. The studio executive told New York Magazine that a test audience in Arizona gave a thumbs down to Costner's manhood. Quote, the audience giggled at Kevin's penis.

I want to, okay. Then in focus groups, they said, do we really need to see Kevin Costner's penis? There's no way. What does that mean? You know, is it big? Is it small? Is it weird? I'm not saying it's true. I would love to see it.

I would love to see it as well. Please. Look, I was noticing some bold in this scene. In this movie. Sure. From time to time on the map. He looks good in the baseball pants. He looks good.

It's a good look for the baseball pants. It is a really strong look. It's the best sporting uniform. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's the best sporting uniform. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's the most flattering. It's a hand-stuck tennis wear.

Oh, wow. Sure, sure. But it's a little less. They're in a little short, short. Yeah, but it's a little less brassy, the tennis. I also like that on a baseball team, the coach has to also wear the uniform. You do.

Little old guy. You gotta give me a shot. I really am like, what is what's going on with Costner's penis? Why were people laughing? Yeah, can you call him? And you know, you get the feeling that Ben Hosley isn't producing against left handers. He isn't producing against pinch hitters. He isn't producing against the Yankees.

He's producing against time. He's producing against the future, against age, and even when you think about his career, against ending. And tonight I think he might be able to use that aching old brain of his one more time

to push the sun back up in the sky and give us one more day of podcasting. Push the sun back up in the sky and give us one more day of podcasting. Of course, as always, we have with us here the Ben Ducer himself, the pro-doer, Producer Ben. Hello, Fennell. Hold on. I'm going to say something that makes sense. Hello, gentlemen.

Hello, Fennell. Producer Ben, you are not allowed to edit that out. And now Hello, Fennell is our catchphrase. No, I'm editing that out. You are not. No, I don't think so. Hello, Fennell. Hello, fennel. Producer Ben, you are not allowed to edit that out. And now hello, fennel is our catchphrase. No, I'm editing that out. You are not. No, I don't think so. Hello, fennel. Hello, fennel. Hello, fennel.

We're going to make hello, fennel t-shirts. It was like, it was fellas and gentlemen all wrapped up in the one. Hey, it was perfect. And now we have a catchphrase. We didn't have a catchphrase. We didn't have a t-shirt. Now we got both. Perfect episode.

Sure. Perfect episode. Olivia, thank you so much for being on. Thank you guys for having me do you have anything you want to plug read gawker.com

you can just type that into your URL space and you'll click on whatever you'll have a giggle I'm on Twitter

at Olivia Craighead letterbox same deal I assume Gawker's gonna do for love of the game month soon oh absolutely a whole month we're doing a whole month devoted had Letterboxd, same deal. I assume Cocker's going to do For Love of the Game Month soon. Oh, absolutely. A whole month. We're doing a whole month devoted to this seminal

film. John C. Reilly, every question you've ever wanted to know. Oh my god, those articles are so funny when the person is like, I don't really remember shooting. What exactly are you calling me about? I was in that? Heartbreakers? Really? Thank you all for listening.

Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media. Joe Bone, Pat Reynolds for our artwork. Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song. AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our editing. Nick Laureano, JJ Birch for our research. Alex Barron for our editing, Nick Loriano, JJ Birch for our research. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to all the nerdy things that surround our podcast,

including our Patreon, patreon.com slash blankcheck for blankcheck special features, where we do franchise commentaries and we're doing what we like to call, or at least I like to call and Ben and David put up with me calling hashtag not all Batman. A run of commentaries on the Batman movies we haven't previously talked about, i.e. the ones not directed by Christopher Nolan or Tim Burton. Tune in next week for the gift.

We got a little gift for you. Got a little gift under the tree. And as always, the crack of the bat. Crack of crack of the bat crack of the bat crack of the bat Did I blow up the mic on that? I mean, yeah, you yelled into the microphone. Should I push it away? Nah, it's fine. I kind of...

We got it. Is this not... Let's not do it again. You don't need to. No, we've got a clean take on it.