Blank Check with Griffin & David - Frankenstein And The Craft Category Juggernauts

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

This week we’re brooding, Victorian style, with Vulture’s Bilge Ebiri! Guillermo del Toro’s Frankenstein is a Best Picture nominee and is well represented in the craft categories, but it has only one acting nomination, for Jacob Elordi’s hulking monster. It’s of a piece with past craft-heavy Oscar contenders like Dune or The Lord of the Rings, but does Frankenstein actually stand a chance? We discuss the film itself, its lavish sets and costumes, del Toro’s choice to center the monster as the hero, and how that decision reshapes the monster’s opposite, Victor, played by Oscar Isaac. We also touch on the new Wuthering Heights, also starring Jacob Elordi, the history of Wuthering Heights adaptations, the shameless state of celebrity Super Bowl ads, and finally atone for our past sins, as Bilge defends previous subjects Train Dreams and Hamnet against our critiques. As it turns out, we were the monster all along. Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Critical Darlings, a conversation about the award season conversation. One contender at a time. Please welcome to this stage, your hosts, Richard Lawson and Allison Wilmore. Marie, thank you for that spirited introduction. As always, we so appreciate it. We are here again, as always, with our producer Ben Frisch. Hello, Ben. Good morning.

And our special guest, Allison's co-worker, Bilga Abiri, Bilga, thank you for being here. Hello, thank you for having me. Now, we have brought you on to defend certain things. Yes. Defend certain things. I thought we're talking about Frankenstein. We are recorded our Frankenstein, but we do have some, like, broiling resentment from certain parties who thought we were being too dismissive. Yeah.

Our train nightmare and our ham not. Yes. Oh, no. No, I thought I was positive about Hamnet, but I guess not. But first off, I do want to issue one correction that a listener has sent in about our episode last week where we talked about Bagonia. I quite erroneously said that Tony McNamara is British. He is in fact Australian. I apologize to all of the Australians listening.

And thank you for listening, first of all. This is probably only slightly less egregious than when on my old podcast I called Killian Murphy British. Oh, that is Irish. That did not go over well. I'm a dumb American who thinks anyone with a foreign-ish accent who speaks in English is British, which they're not. There are lots of other places.

So apologies to me. Mr. McNamara and our listener. But yes, we are here to talk about Frankenstein this week. But before we do that, have we all seen Wuthering Heights? I have not seen Wuthering Heights. But I'm happy to talk about Wuthering Heights because I have been in Wuthering Heights hell for the past year. In what way? I am watching every single adaptation of Wuthering Heights ever made.

And not just like the BBC adaptations and whatnot. I am watching all the Indian adaptations, the Pakistani adaptation, the multiple Filipino adaptations, the Turkish adaptation, the Egyptian adaptation. And it has taken me the better part of a year. And I'm still not done. I'm like desperately trying to make my deadline. You did this to yourself as well. Like this was a project you took on. Did you know how many there were when you? I knew there were a lot. I knew there were a lot. And in fact, at one point I had to draw the line at telenovelas because there are multiple telenovelas like. you know, 50 episode series from like the 50s and 60s from like Venezuela that I was, I don't even know how I would find these, let alone like watch them.

Bronte just cash in those royalty checks. But it is fascinating how. So it's funny, though, because like I've been hearing people talking about the new Wuthering Heights and some of the things it does. They're like, oh, it takes liberties. I'm like, well, they all take liberties, don't they? And of course, I'm in this world where I'm watching like a loose adaptation of it molded to the Bollywood model.

or even ones like the updated ones like the MTV Wuthering Heights and then Wuthering High from the asylum or the gender flipped modern day British one Spark House. Right. But you're not doing any of the porn parodies. I am not doing any of the porn parodies, although, you know, at one point I thought I should check and see if there are some porn parrots.

And I was like, no, I can't go ahead. I don't know that you want the word Wuthering in your porn. I don't know. Yeah, I do like Spark House, though, as a like, what is a flipped version? of Wuthering Heights. It's like, I mean, gender flipped was kind of the way they sold it, but it's actually very loose adaptation, updated, made in, I want to say, 2002.

And, I mean, kind of an MTV-ish. All the boys in it look like they could be members of Oasis. It's, you know, it takes a lot of liberties and kind of feels like an after-sum. special on crack. Wow. It's got all sorts of topical things like rape and suicide and all sorts of things. But it's kind of crazy and fun in a weird way, but also, you know, really dodgy in other ways.

But, you know, not the worst adaptation. So this is all for a ranking that you're going to be doing? It's for a ranking. It's for a ranking that no one will read, but, you know. I'm going to read it. That's fascinating. If you're listening to this, please go for this year worth of work. I feel like people will check it out just to see where.

like, you know, their favorite versions ended up on the link. But it is, it is kind of funny because, like, while I'm writing it, I'm also thinking, I am talking about the same story like 36 times. And each blurb is like, I'm like, I have to keep myself from just saying the same things over and over and over again. Well, you haven't seen. I haven't seen the new one. Yeah. But do you, at the moment, have a number one? I don't have a number one yet. I have kind of a top five. Okay. And it's kind of a how I'm feeling on day of also. I want to see the new one. before I kind of make a decision. There's kind of this thing I'm struggling with, which often happens with these kinds of lists where I'm like, do I make my number one like a really different adaptation that I happen to love?

Or do I make my number one like the best of the kind of more faithful adaptation? Because technically there's a Transformers movie that's Wuthering Heights, right? Thickly veiled. I would love that. I say go with your heart. Go with the one that speaks to you.

I know. This is the theme. of the thing, right? Yeah. How have you found, how are these available to watch? Like that feels like that would be the trickiest problem. It's been, it's been a journey. I have bought discs from India, from Italy.

In fact, I had this whole thing with, because there are two Italian mini-series of it. One of them, I've managed to find a German DVD that I bought through Amazon, France, of the Italian, the newer Italian miniseries. And then there's an older Italian mini-series actually starring Massimo Giotti as Heathcliff. That is also available. And I found a seller in Italy who would sell it to me. But then they ran into like tariff issues.

Oh my God, this is true political. And it actually got to this point where I was like, I really need this. And she was like, I'm trying, but I don't know if I'm going to be able to get it to you in time. And finally, she was like, what if I just sent it to you what if I just like burned it to you

and sent it to you as files? I was like, please, go ahead, do it. That's fine. Now, in Italian, do they call her Katerina, Earnshaw, or did they say Kethe? It is Katerina. Okay.

They actually do, they don't move it to Italy in that one. Right. It is still like Liverpool, you know, and, yeah. But it is Katerina. Yorkshire.

Yeah. Are you always so thorough in your viewing habits? I feel like you guys, like, you know, when you're reviewing something, you're often watching the previous, you know, directs films. You know, I try, but I don't think any of us holds a Kendall Labilga in this regard. Well, it was kind of, I used to do these lists back in the day for Vulture. And I think they sort of like the fact that I would be thorough.

And in terms of like when I would, I have this ongoing list of great car movies that I update every time there's a new like racing movie or whatever comes up. But, you know, I went around and actually found car movies from all over the world to include in that. I just kind of enjoyed the idea of, like, trying to find rare stuff that people might not be familiar with. Once upon a time, readers tended to appreciate that. It's been long enough that now people actually kind of get angry at you if you include films they've never heard of. So that's been a fun little sea change to experience. years ago I did a big list for Vulture of the best foreign language musicals. Foreign language meaning non-English language musicals because you would see lists of musicals

and people would be like, oh, you know, it's all like, you know, stars born, singing in the rain, stuff like that. And I was like, well, there's so many, like every culture has its own musicals, right? The Soviets had like musicals, Egyptian musicals or a thing. Obviously, in Bollywood movies. Yeah. And so I did this like 50 titles. list of like the greatest musicals not in English. And that was fun because I spent like a year, I spent like two years doing it. And it was, you know, you'd find like eBay, you know, you'd go on

eBay and find like dodgy, you know, sort of gray market copies of films that you've been looking for. And there were films I couldn't find. But I just enjoyed that. Like my synephelia began as trying to find rare, then rare. Italian movies, like Pasolini movies through like, you know, disreputable sources and stuff like that when I was a teenager. And as everything has become more available, now I'm like expanding to try and find really, really rare stuff. Spend a lot of time on DailyMotion.com. I spend more time than I ever thought I would. But yeah. See, I thought I thought

Daily Motion was just to watch Australian Survivor, but I guess not. It has other purposes. There are some real gems on there. Daily. Daily Motion is where I found the Egyptian Wuthering Heights, which is actually really good. And I discovered a new director, not a new director, but like a classic Egyptian director who's work I was unfamiliar with, but a guy named Kamal al-Shake, who's actually a very well-regarded director in Egypt and talking to a couple of my Egyptian friends about him. I'm like, oh, this is like a really interesting guy. He was known as the Egyptian Hitchcock, and he specialized in kind of noir-ish-type films.

And even though his Wuthering Heights isn't a noir, it has some of those elements. which actually fits that story really well. And it's kind of a surprisingly faithful adaptation, even though it's like updated and set in Egypt. Anyway, all this stuff is just kind of fun. How deep is your Frankenstein knowledge? Has there have been, you know, a cajillion Frankenstein, right?

I mean, yeah, I haven't watched all the Frankenstein. But when around the time the Kenneth Branagh version came out years ago, I read the novel and, you know, sort of, tried to familiarize myself with the story, but that was a long time. To close the loop on the Wuthering Heights,

Frankenstein, I will say, Jacob Allorty, who plays the monster in Frankenstein, I feel like there's a, there's a lot in common with, like,

the kind of middle thread of Allerty in Wuthering Heights, when he is not yet reinvented himself as Heathcliff, but is, just kind of grown up, but still... Kind of a brute.

Yes, he's like this kind of brute. He's got a bit of a... They're kind of, of the same. Like his Frankenstein. And then he comes back with kind of a makeover, a bit of a blow-up. Yeah, yeah. He's like, it's like, Colin Firth in Pride and Prejudice, but with a gold tooth and an earring. Yeah. Oh, he does have the gold tooth. They're subtle about, but it's, yeah, it's a delicate touch. Yeah. Well, yes, we can, well, since it's, since this is podcast, is Wuthering Heights, is this going to be an Oscar movie, do we think? Oh, boy. I mean, I mean, we're going to get into,

like technical category stuff with Frankenstein for sure. I mean, I could see that being something that Wuthering Heights has, you know, in its favor, like cinematography or certainly there's a best song in there, right, from Charlie XX, probably. I do love that song. Yeah. Yeah. I was not a fan of the movie, so I'm having a hard time thinking positively about its awards chances. But sure, I mean, I think that Saltburn, her last movie probably underperformed in that regard. People, I think, thought it might get some attention and it just really didn't. So I don't know. this coming out in February, so it's a long haul to the Oscars, I don't know. This Wuthering Heights, it's for the fans, not the critics. I think so. This critic did love Wutherlander Hites. For another time. Yeah, for another time.

Maybe this time next year will we convene on this topic? We just want to acknowledge that it is out this week. It is out this week, and it does have a star in common. Yeah. Who is really, I think, like, really kind of like owning the hot, hulking brute, you know. Yeah. world right now. Congrats to you, Jacob.

Of the class of those late 20s into mid-30s guys, your Meskles and your Joshua Connorses and all those people, Callum Turner's, well, Lorty is only the second to get Oscar attention, really, because Meskal obviously got their first with Afterson. And I was joking to some friends over text

because I was re-watching Frankenstein last night. And I was like, isn't it kind of funny that Jacob Allorty's first nomination is for playing Frankenstein's monster? like, would you have thought that watching euphoria? And then it's like, well, he is really tall. So maybe that does. Maybe it's not that surprising.

I mean, it has informed a lot of his roles. You know, he was deemed back when he was a teenager in Australia, his mother, he was doing acting classes, became obsessed with acting. His mom was like, you should also consider modeling. It would be a good way to make money or whatever. And he tried, and they were like, you're too tall for the sample size clothing. Wow. Yeah. There is actually, I didn't realize there was a ceiling.

I didn't realize either. I feel like that the height thing even figures into his Elvis, you know, in Priscilla. Like it uses the height difference between them to almost like emphasize also the power imbalance and the kind of like her youthfulness is like also becomes compounded. But it's like physically smallness. This is actually, I remember, sorry, tangent. But when I was a kid reading about L. McPherson, oh, sure. Generation X represent.

But she often talked about how she had difficulty getting modeling contract because she was tall. And in Australia, it was like really seen as like a real knock against you if you were like a certain height, above a certain height. I guess you were getting to uppity? I don't know. You know, but it was like she was like, what do you think you're from the northern hemisphere up there? Tall pongue syndrome and a very little. So it was like, you know, like that was the thing that she would say. I don't know if it's actually true.

That's what, well, I mean, well, we had an Australian listener right in about the Tony McNamara thing. So, yeah. If you have any opinion about the height. Yeah. But yeah, no, I do think that like, rewatching this, I do think Allorty is good. And it is exciting for him. But it's just, it is a little funny to me. Did you see the Paul Schrader movie at Cannes, Bill?

The, oh, Canada? Yeah. So he plays the younger version of Richard Gere in that, which is like, okay, so as he got older, he shrank him. Well, he could, those happen. It does happen. But that's a movie where, and I think that maybe Schrader, who's obviously a brilliant director, but, like, in that, I think he seemed to maybe a little bit unsure how to film someone

that tall and how to, like, frame him. Because there were times, I know Canada where, you know, it's in the past with the allurdy stuff, where he's sitting in a chair or something. And you're like, is that, like, doll furniture? Because he just looms in it. And then sometimes it feels like the camera's straining to capture him. him in full. That was the really only time

in a movie where I thought his height was a detriment, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, I think you see it a bit sometimes with fellow Australian Elizabeth Debicki, you know, where sometimes when she is just like shot without anyone accommodating the height, you're like, wow. Like, everyone else, the scale of everything

looks different. They could put him in the bar in Blue Moon. Yes, exactly. And then you wouldn't need to like make Ethan Hawk look smaller. He would automatically. David? Yes.

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That's M-U-B-I-com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free. So Alluredi has a nomination. What are the other nombs for Frankenstein? Picture, not director. Visual effects, art direction, adapted screenplay, I believe. Allorty for a supporting role. Writing, adapted screenplay, original score, best sound, best production design, best cinematography, makeup and hair styling, costume design.

So a lot of the crafts. Yeah. It did very well. And it's one of those movies. I mean, they're every year, I was looking back at Wikipedia. It feels like obviously it happened pre-Titanic, but post-Titanic, the sort of floodgates opened for these big blockbusters that also had this kind of prestigious thing to it. And also you add like the very modern like computer effects and all that. Like Lord of the Rings obviously would be the next thing that kind of like satisfied both the sort of serious cinema people and the people who wanted the big spectacle.

And Frankenstein seems to be that movie this year. Yeah. Like, I mean, these are movies, right, where they often get nominated for Best Picture, but the categories they actually win in are technical categories. Like, Dune, I think, right? Like, Dune got nominated for a lot of things. But what it won was, like, best music, best sounds and photography, productions. Like, it was like, it was not the big, what do they call them?

Like, the big awards. I mean, the one I will always think about is Fury Road. Yes, of course, which is, like, the classic one. Which is classic because also, obviously, it deserved best picture. Yeah, I agree. But also earlier in that night, it was winning all these technical awards. And I think a lot of us, like, briefly got our hopes up. It really seemed that that whole evening, and it was fun because it was a George Miller production and it was Mad Max.

And so each successive round of Australians that went up to take the awards was kind of cookier than the last. Like, it just kind of kept getting weirder and weird, and you're like, okay, maybe this is really something. And then, of course, it didn't because there is. still that sort of membrane separating these big technical achievements. Even though Dune kept winning that year,

I didn't think that was going to win Best Picture and it didn't, you know, Return of the King did win, so eventually they wore them down after three Lord of the Rings movies. Titanic obviously won,

but like it is rare for these big, like Avatar didn't win in its first, you know, well, I mean, yet, we don't know, maybe Avatar 4

will make a comeback. That's because the craft categories, the voting bodies are specifically the people who work in the But the further nominations, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then everyone gets to vote for, you know,

the actual awards. Yeah, and I do think there is a perception that, you know, like these movies, which often tend to be genre-e, genre-adjacent, that they're giant spectacles. And you can salute that by not, like, you know, like saluting their technical expertise, but that there is somehow something less serious about them

as a kind of artistic achievement. So you wouldn't give them the, like, big prizes. It's why it's rare to see acting nominations for these movies. Like Anne McAllen got in for the first Lord of the Rings. Obviously, the Lord is in here. Titanic got two. Titanic is kind of more of not like fantasy or action. But I think, yeah, like someone from Avatar was never going to get nominated for,

even though that first movie got nine nominations. It just wasn't going to happen. Yeah, or something like The Last Jedi, right? You're like, you can get technical nominations you're not going to get. I mean, Babu Frick deserved an Oscar nomination for the third Star Wars. But, you know, what could we do? And, like, you know, you watch, like, Furiosa, which kind of flamed out in general. But, like, Chris Hemsworth is legitimately incredible in that movie.

Like, it's, like, this big Shakespearean performance. Also, where's a fake goes? A classic sign of good acting. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's serious acting right there. I think he got it from Stephen Daldry, who's from the hour's costume closet.

Like, it's your turn now. Yes. Yeah. But I guess if you have the entire voting body is voting on, like, best sound, editing or whatever, and actors make up the large. largest portion. Is there some kind of like, I kind of wonder what they look for in terms of those categories? I assume, like many of us, a lot of people in other parts of the Academy really don't know what good sound editing is. You know, like, I think that a lot of these categories,

yeah, you're just kind of being like, this seems like a good achievement. Like, this is a place to salute your achievement, you know? There was some rubric that you could, that you could kind of roughly follow back in the day before they, so only very recently, well, so it used to be just best sound. Then for years they split it up into sound mixing and sound editing and now it's back to just best sound for whatever reason. But it was separated. There was kind of a through line where you could say if a movie has music, if it's a musical or whatever, that will get mixing because it's balancing vocals and instruments and all that. And then the best sound editing would be like special effects. So like fully work or digital stuff like that. So I would go to like a bigger kind of spectacle

movie. But like that didn't even always really match up. But I think. a lot of times they're just like, oh, that was the fun blockbuster. So let me vote for that in this technical kind of visual effects or whatever. Yeah. Do we feel like Frankenstein is a blockbuster? I mean, it certainly is, it announces its desire to have like, to operate on a grand scale, like quite early on. But like, I'll tell you this. Yes. I mean, it's also obviously a Netflix movie, we should say, which like makes it impossible to gauge from one of the traditional metrics of a blockbuster, which is to say, like. And it did get a theatrical release. And it was interesting. because, I mean, Guillermo del Toro himself on Twitter and elsewhere was kind of sort of promoting this and talking about how, you know, they were selling out all these theaters.

Of course, Netflix doesn't report it, so we don't really know it. But it did kind of expand and it actually had like a real theatrical life. We have no idea what kind of money it made. And I don't think it was ever wide enough to, you know, qualify as like, technically qualify as a blockbuster. But, you know, a lot of people obviously watched it on Netflix. I'm sure, or at least I'm sure that... Yeah, no, I would think so. And, like, I was at a dinner at the Savannah Film Festival.

I got invited to a dinner with Oscar Isaac. And I... It was in the basement of this really great restaurant in Savannah. The dinner for Train Dreams the night previous was upstairs. And I was like, oh, they're put it... Because it was more dungeon-y. It was more Frankenstein. Oh.

And for whatever reason, it was me and, like, six other gay guy journalists. And then Oscar Isaac walks in and he's like, what's happening? But anyway, at that dinner, there was someone from Netflix with us at the dinner, and Oscar had mentioned that it was playing in theaters. And this person from Netflix was like, yeah, actually, we're going to keep it in theaters. And Oscar was like, really? I had no idea. Because he said it was doing well.

Yeah. But again, we don't know any numbers. But I think it has this sort of aura of a blockbuster. And I will say, I mean, having watched it now on Netflix as well, but seeing it at Venice on the big screen there, I, it looked. so so much better on a big screen. Like it really does deserve a big screen. Yeah, that's interesting. Because, Ben, you had observed to me before we started this,

that you thought it could look better on a laptop screen. Well, so the first time I watched it, I watched it at home, as Netflix intended. Sure, yeah. On my, on my TV. And I have a nice TV, but the second time I watched it, I watched it also as Netflix intended on my laptop while playing a video game. And I do feel like I know. I noticed less of the things that bothered me visually

when it was on a smaller screen. Specifically, like, the sets and the lighting just meshed a little more when I just didn't have so much space to consider them. In the video game, were you at the level where Victor takes Elizabeth out to dinner or whatever? What was it? Dialogue tree comes out and you're like,

what to say, what to say? What were the visual things that bothered you? I guess the first time I watched it, the sets just like, They're beautifully constructed, but they look like sets. Yes. But they just don't look real as opposed to the costumes, which I think are wonderful. Well, it's something about this film that I find fascinating and at times troublesome.

You're right. I mean, it does look, I don't want to say fake, but it does look kind of like, if I'm being less generous, the Disneyland version of this world. Like there's a scene, I mean, it's just kind of a, it's not even like a particularly visually significant scene, but when he's hiding out in the cottage, and there's this, there's this kind of stone wall behind him. And the stone wall, I'm watching it last night, I was like looking at, I'm like, that stone wall looks like literally like a Disneyland's wall. The side of the tavern and pirates of the curve. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's partly intentional. Like, I do think that Guillermo del Toro has this storybook conception of these worlds that aren't particularly lived in.

Like, he wants them to be kind of, like, this almost like a distancing element, this sort of picture book kind of fantastical spaces that don't feel particularly lived in or real. Yamid al-Torri is a filmmaker who's made a number of movies I do like but I'm always baffled by how I don't particularly gravitate to his work in the way that I would expect because I love maximalism right

I love maximalism tracking shots elaborate fantastical creations I'm a Paulo Sorrentino and Terry Gilliam deadender like I love this style of filmmaking and you go to Cannes for the rest of your life I love the style of filmmaking.

And there's a lot of stuff in Del Toro's films I like and a number of his films I do like. But often I watch them and I'm like, I don't feel transported into his world. He's got great visual imagination. But his situational imagination or his kind of imagination of incident is a little more mundane. Yeah. I find there's something I think I found increasingly stifling about it. Like, he's clearly thought through these so obsessively. Like, but, you know, as opposed to someone say like a Tim Burton where there is that kind of maximalism, but it feels, I don't know, like, it's hard to say like lived in because like Tim Burton's things are also outrageous and like max.

But like they. Tim Burton is best too. Yeah. Yeah. Like 80s, nine. But there is like a kind of coherence to the world that like makes it feel like not quite lived in, but you believe that these characters are living in this world, you know? Whereas I feel oftentimes like with more recent del Toro films. Like, my eyes keep drifting away from the action to the backups because he's, like, thought about them so much.

But they are almost, like, overwhelming the actual content of the film. I mean, like, I think I've even maybe said this on this podcast. But, like, with Nightmare Alley, a film that is supposed to be this kind of lurid exploration into, like, the dark depths of human nature and all of that. The thing that always stuck in my mind is, like, Kate Blanchett's incredible 1930s, like, Art Deco office, you know? And I'm like, it's a beautiful thing. But that should not be the first image that sticks in my head. But it, I mean, I think that is the thing that I feel like he thought the most about. Yeah, I mean, in Frankenstein, for example, and I'll say, Frankenstein is not a movie I dislike.

There is a lot of stuff I like. You might like it the best of. I mean, I actually, on the whole, enjoy this film, mainly because of El Lourdes' performance. But, you know, early on, you know, outside the ship when the monster shows up and is just, like, throwing down, like throwing sailors all over the place. I mean, it's a scene that I think is probably about five minutes long. feels like 10 or longer even. And as I'm watching it, I just, my attention just starts to drift, right? And, you know, like, I'm watching it and he's like, you know, supposedly this is an action scene.

This happens later, too, where I'm just like, oh, you know, what am I going to make for dinner? And, you know, like, if I catch the 905 train, I can be home by 1130. And it's like, you know, and I usually try to pay attention during these things. And the film is like, it feels like it really wants to command your attention. But like what's happening? I'm like, the big guy's throwing sailors around, of course. Or he's ripping somebody's mouth off. And that's also like, that scene, you're supposed to be like, these are like desperate men who are really worried they're going to die out here in like, you know, on this like doomed expedition to the North Pole under this captain that they don't trust.

And they're being told to work themselves to death to like dig this ship out of the ice so they can keep going. You feel like none of that desperation because, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I always think back to, I don't forget how many years ago it was, but that great New Yorker profile of Del Toro, where it's kind of documenting his getting ready to like, I don't know if he was like ready to shoot it, but like certainly in pre-production for like at the mountains of madness or whatever that the lovecraft thing is. And, you know, the writer of the piece goes into his like workshop and all these models and like little, you know, monster, you know, figurines and all this, all of the sort of like stuff of his head kind of. made manifest. And I think that's where he excels. But I think when I actually see the movies, I feel like I'm watching little figurines on a set design model. I think he's such a good conceptualist, but then, yeah, he doesn't, ironically enough, given it it, it's Frankenstein, give it that

spark of life that I really want. Yeah. I mean, I've kind of, like jokingly, but not really joke. I mean, I have, I really like the shape of water. I really like Tans Labyrinth. But, like, my favorite movies of his are Hellboy 2 and Blade 2. And I think that is because, Like, two is incredible. It feels like he is freed up in those movies to feel like, you know, less of this pressure to also be like, like, like, and in a funny way, you know, as he's leaned into being like, I want to find these kind of like perverse, dark things. I feel like there is like weird or freakier stuff in those movies because like it just kind of comes out around the edges than when he has tried really hard to actually pursue it directly. Well, it's like another scene in Frankenstein early on when, you know, we see Victor's father. feeding his mom the steak.

He's like, you got to eat the steak. You know, the salt's good for you. And as soon as he feeds there the steak, I remember thinking, oh, now we're going to see a little drop of a little blood run down. And sure enough, that's what happens. And I'm like, this is supposed to be, I feel like this is supposed to be like a kind of a dark moment.

And instead, it's kind of just a predictable moment. And there are like moments like that throughout the film that sort of, I'm like, I kind of know what I'm, I know what's going to happen. He's going to lift the guy up and the brain's going to fall out. You know, and maybe that just is a measure of how just jaded and cynical I am. I mean, you know, I will say my wife loves Del Toro's movie. Like, she's a horror fiend and she loves his movies. And I remember, you know, she was like, like, you gave a negative review to Crimson Peak.

What the fuck is wrong with you? You know, like, so there are, yeah, a lot of people really, you know, love this stuff. So sometimes I watch the films and I think to myself, I didn't really respond to it. And sometimes I wonder if it's just more of a media. problem than anything else. I'm also not a fan of Pan's lap. I mean, I'm honestly in Crimson Peak, the part of that movie that really comes to life to me is Chastain. I think

Chastain is delightful in that movie and is like really giving like, I think the whole thing, yeah, but also like giving the kind of thing that I felt like the rest of the movie was aiming for, but felt like the rest of the movie felt much more beautiful, like, incredibly, incredible looking, but like kind of dramatically inert to me. And I think that at the same time, you know, you talked about

you know, his conceptual mastery. And watching Frankenstein, and I think I even said this in my review, as much as, like, I have a big problem with the first half of the movie. I think Isaac is like totally misguessed, which we can get into.

And then Allured he comes in and just absolutely breathes life into the movie. But then I'm like, well, that kind of makes sense for Frankenstein. I wonder if part of this is intentional and maybe he's kind of going too far in one direction and sort of handicapping the movie a little bit.

But I feel like, I mean, the whole thing has been conceptualized so that Elorti comes in. And he is, in fact, as you guys said, like the spark of life that kind of gives the movie its soul. And there's this whole question throughout the movie of where is this creature's soul? And so it kind of makes sense that like the first part of the movie kind of does not have a soul. And then the creature comes in and suddenly it has one. So there's a part of me that's like, I mean, it would be too perverse for, you know, Del Toro just like sacrifices. movie for that. But there is something weirdly compelling about the way Elordia comes in and just basically breathes life into this thing. And I think it's interesting that a lot of at least the

early stretch of part two, a lot of the ornate production design is gone. And he's the special effect, you know, and I think that that ratio for me works better than the opposite, I guess. And it changes visually, too. I mean, you know, first half of the movie, Oscar Isaac is often backlit, which I think is a mistake as well because then we really don't get to see much of his face and that's kind of where the drama should live. Yeah.

Right. But once it becomes the creature's story, once it becomes the monster story, he's in light, right? I mean, the light is shining on him and we see his face, we see all his features. And that is, I think, intentional.

Like, I think that is something that, you know, that's part of the film's design and also explains why suddenly, like, we're seeing a face, a human face, the monster's face, but also a human face, and suddenly we're starting to recognize real emotions and starting to feel something. But also, I don't know, like,

Del Toro has said that he originally thought for a while that this would be two movies, you know, like the first would be the Victor Frankenstein version, and then the second would be the creature. And I just seem so disastrous to me because already... Would he add new songs for the second one, though? No one would like them, though. They'd each get one new song.

But I do think the major weakness of this movie for me is just how much it leans, it is so much more interested in and sympathetic to the monster. And I feel like, one, you know, this movie actually at certain points is, you are the monster, Victor Frankenstein. And you're like, yeah, we got that. We picked up on that.

Yeah, but also, like, I don't think that, you know, like, if you were going to make a whole separate movie just about this guy first, you have to find some soul to him as well. Like even though he is doing these hubristic, like, kind of awful, doomed things, you also have to, like, understand him in some way and sympathize with him in some way.

And he is just so kind of, like, off-putting from the beginning that it is really difficult to latch on to him in that first half. If you're going to tell the full Frankenstein story, Frankenstein has to be your protagonist at some point, you know? And here's where, you know, I should also say, I am a fan of Kenneth Branagh's Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, a film that famously everyone hated when it came out, including me. I hated it when it came out and kind of almost destroyed Branagh's career as like a serious director at the time. But then over the years, I've gone back to it and now I actually love it and that movie leaves me in tears now. And we can get into sort of the performance stuff, but it does also make me think, well, you know, maybe there's a world in which, you know, 20 years from now, I watch this Frankenstein.

And I'm like, wait, I had it wrong. I love it now. I'm so curious about, like, I saw the Brown Ow Frankenstein with, oh, it's like 1994, right? In theaters when I was very young. And, like, it is very, like, imagery from that is, I haven't seen it since. I'm very curious to go back and watch it. But also, it's so seared in my brain. Like, like, that movie has much freakyer imagery.

Oh, yeah. The Del Toro, by far, like, just like all the amniotic fluid. Like, there's just, like, it does the whole bride. thing, which is like kind of just like gestured to in this version, you know, um, like it, it is filled with some really dark, genuinely weird imagery and, uh, I've never forgotten it. David, yes. I am so excited about this episode sponsor.

Yes, me too. Might truly be the most excited I've ever had to, for anything to sponsor this podcast. Hmm. Today's episode. We're excited to like sponsors that tell you how to like help your finances. Hey, easy. Okay, okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Easy. Today's episode of Blank Check is brought to you by Nirvana the band The Show, the movie. Woo! Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. Marie's here too, because everyone's so excited. I love this movie. I mean, I love this band, this show, this movie.

Yes. Important correction. This film is finally coming to theaters. February 13th is the start of the theatrical rollout. Yeah. From our friends at Neon. Neons bringing it out. We have been waiting impatiently for other people to see this film.

We saw this at South by Southwest. one of the best screenings of my life. Truly. Truly, it was an unbelievable experience. Ben, you were there. Had a blast. And I had never seen or engaged with this show previously. Most of the group had not.

You don't really need it. It was like seven of us. You don't need the context to enjoy. Absolutely. It's a big sign. I think you need to know like what Toronto is. Because you knew nothing other than us hyping you up for you. Well, this was the problem.

And we should say it's a city in Canada. Yes. I went in. You guys had just. It's the best thing ever. And not just you, other people. I can't believe how good. And I was like, this is so overhyped.

And here's a great thing about David. Like, I'm walking in. Like, I felt mad about it. Where it was just like, they've primed it too much for me. I like that you acknowledge this. Because sometimes if we tell you something's good, I see you go, like, you put your fists up. Well, I'm just like, relax because I need to, I can't go in with too much hype because that's not good for my critical experience of a movie.

And then I thought it was better than the hype. This is the thing. This movie is truly a miracle. I think it is the funniest movie. of the last 10 years easily. And listeners of the show know, I am often bemoaning the state of the theatrical comedy. And this is a movie that provides the thing I've been longing for,

which is, you go see this with a crowd. It is just electric every five seconds, rolling laughter. And the movie just builds and builds and builds. This is a movie for Matt Johnson. Yes. Director Blackberry, one of my favorite movies the last couple of years. Him and Jay McCarroll started as a web series, became a TV series. And now is a movie, but you don't need to know any of that.

This works as a clean entry point. It's a movie about two friends who are obsessed with their band playing at one venue. They want to play the Rivley. That's all you need to know about these guys. Before the lights went down at the South by Southwest screening, I believe you turned to me and said, what do I need to know? And I said, all you need to know is they want to play the Rivoli. They got to play the Rivley.

I've, you know, I've been to Toronto many times. Have you been to the Rivley? Never. I've stayed on Queen West, though, and I've certainly walked by the Rivley many times. And I always be like, oh, yeah, the Rivley. There it's not Carnegie Hall. No, it's the fucking bar. You never see these guys.

What do you mean? It's the most important music than you in Canada. You never see these guys practice their music, but all you know is that every episode starts with, here's the plan, here's how we play the Rivley, right? We got to play the Rivoli. And this movie starts from there and explodes in unbelievable ways. I think this movie is truly like a magic trick beyond just how funny it is. And for how much it's caked in the deep lore of this Nirvana, the band, the show, universe

that's existed. for 15 years, you can just go in knowing nothing and be blown away. And for a movie that seems kind of slapdash and roughly made from the start, it starts to pull off genuine, like, cinematic magic tricks where you cannot believe how this thing was made. What was my letterbox review, Griff, did you see it? No, please tell me. L.O.L, how did they make this? Truly.

That was how I thought. How did this get made? No, but I was also just like, how did they make this? I don't get it. You don't understand how they're getting away with it legally. You don't understand how it was cleared for release. And there is a melding of scripted and non-scripted, them engaging with real people on the street

where the line between what is planned and what is not boggles your brain. It was my favorite thing I saw all of 2025. And now it's coming out in 26. Now, listen, I do have to do some talking points. Do some talking points. Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, is in theaters, February 13th. Get tickets now. We must say this.

Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. They're very clear that we have to say the title of this thing. A few times. The Band, the Show, the Movie. Why, it's a really simple, easy title. Nirvana, the Man, the Show, the Movie, it really is a kind of like going cold expecting something fun. I don't think you need too much more than that.

No. I know it sounds unwieldy or whatever, but just like, I think you're going to have a pretty good time. If you trust our opinion at all, take this recommendation. Yes. Don't look it up. Go in. and I really, really doubt there is any chance

you will be disappointed. In theaters, February 13th, get your tickets now. Nirvana, the man, the show of the movie. Do you have a relationship with Frankenstein as a franchise? We don't know each other that well. We've run into each other at things. That's not what I heard.

Well, the monster, that's a different story. Talk about tossing sailors around. But I, my sister and I loved the Kenneth Browner version. We were probably, I was probably 11 or so or 12 maybe when it came out on video and we rented that thing so often we would come off from the video story

my mom would be like, Frankenstein again. It was like clueless days of confused, a couple other movies and then that, because we thought it was so ornate and scary and grim and there was something really visceral about it and it was also because just to my Frankenstein origin story

is when I was a bit younger than that my mom had gotten these Fisher Price used to do these kind of like books on tape of classics with a sort of graphic novel comic book thing to follow along with as you listen to it and the production value on the tapes was actually pretty good they had like from what I remember good actors I had one of these yeah and we had Frankenstein

and we had that in 2001 Arabian Nights or whatever but that Frankenstein was really the favorite because it was so grim and gothic and scary and like people got strangled and a kid got killed, you know, and we thought we were very mature and it scared the hell out of me. The illustration of the monster was terrifying. But that was firmly like, Victor made a mistake, but good and compelling protagonist, monster, tragic but also bad.

And that was a much clearer sort of, and maybe it's not as nuanced or interesting, but like that was a frankinson that could really respond to what I think the Brana version does that as well, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I don't have a very storied relationship with Frankenstein as a kind of concept monster franchise. I was always much more of a vampire girl, obviously. Like, as a, you know, middle school and teenage goth girl.

Like, I was like, it's sexy. Let me wear lace and eyeliner. Things that Frankenstein can't do, obviously. Well, a Frankenstein. If you're a Frankenstein, you've got to do other stuff and you have a bolt through your neck. We all know this. You also can't be goth in skin. to fire. That's not really... Yeah, it just doesn't work. How the candles, you've got to light so many

candles of your got. So, yeah, I, but I, I mean, I saw, like, the 1931 version, like, I feel like when I was maybe a teenager or something, and that also felt very seared into my, my mind. And I think... Is that classic, like, bolts and neck, like, is that that that, that or no, is that... Carloff. It's a Carloff. And it also, I think it has, like, something, and I, we should talk about this, also in comparison to the kind of like Oscar Isaac's kind of like ego-driven kind of also in-cell, you know, Victor Frankenstein, the, you know, monster in this is like so much more just like, both like handsome and also like just like wronged much, you know, like, and kind of, if not totally blameless, he does commit a lot of acts of violence, like not the same kind of

acts of violence. Like famously in the, and the James Whale version, there is that, where the monster runs into this little girl by the side of the water and the little girl is showing him to throw flowers in the water. And then it becomes clear that he, having run out of flowers, like throws the little girl in the water and she drowns. And like it is such a great, uneasy element, right, where you're like you have this creation who is not necessarily actively malicious but is also frightening, right? Like even without knowing. And I think, you know, to remove that element from this version of the monster, You know, Del Toro is like, that's his big thing, right? I love my, like, the monsters, like the real monsters are always, always look like the monster.

He's like the black sheep rejected, you know, Artie son where victory, you know, like, he like went to Skidmore's. I'm like, it's, yeah. Well, I mean, like, it's another thing about, you know, my love for Hellboy 2 and Blade 2 is that he, and I think he has even said as much. He has done like test runs of this type of character before, right? Like, both played by Luke Goss in these movies. Like, what is this, the, the reaper, was it, Reaver? I can't remember where in Blade 2. The villain who, like, you know, is also pallid-looking and is the, turns out to be the son, right?

Like, the kind of estranged son who was experimented on by his vampire lord father and is resentful and, you know, now wants to kind of destroy him. And then the Prince Nuada in Hellboy, too, also this kind of alabaster-looking resentful, estranged son who, you know, is mad at his dad. It's, uh, he definitely, this idea has been sticking around. And I don't know how much it is related actually to Frankenstein versus just, like, these ideas that he wants to deal with and, like, has been grappling with multiple times in his work that he is now bringing to Frankenstein. But like, yes, the, uh, apparently extremely pale, but beautiful, resentful son, who in this case finally becomes, like, the flat out hero, not just the antagonist, right? Yeah. And an action hero.

And I think going back to the Tossing the Sailor Round Part, like, when I saw the trailer for this, I was like, oh, no, he's like super strong. Like, it just, like, now it looks like a superhero movie. And, like, I just, I think I just wanted it, like, a Frankenstein. And it's crazy to say this about the Brana version, but, like, lower to the ground. Or, like, like, feeling a bit more human. And this just feels like, you know, in trying to get us to see the awesome power of this creation, he kind of overstated or something. Could some of these be like Netflix notes? I wonder.

I don't know how much, like, I mean, the question of how much Netflix give notes is like an eternal one. But I think with their autore, they're kind of chosen autores. I don't know that they give any. Well, because the monster in this is supposed to be Vecna's brother, right? They'll eventually do it. Yeah, okay. It's going to be a sitcom, though. I don't think Netflix gives notes to Del Toro anymore, especially at this point because he's done a number thing.

though, is that opening scene is like a classic Netflix opening scene where they're like, we have to start with the action. Like, you know, we have to keep people's attention. That's true, but it's also, I mean, it makes perfect sense for the story to start that way. But yeah, my Frank is I'll just tell very

quickly, my very first introduction to it was we had, you know, before we moved to the U.S. and discovered videotapes, we had super 8 millimeter films of different movies. and never a full feature.

But like, we had a lot of, we had a lot of like three minutes of a Disney movie, that sort of thing. And then we had like the last... Bambi's mom dying. Yeah, yeah. We had like the last reel of King Kong.

Right. And then we had the scene with the little girl from Frankenstein. So like I just watched that over and over and over and over. In selections. Jesus. But there were some Laurel and Hardy things. Sure.

The episode where Laurel dies. Yeah. the episode where Hardy, like, you know, throws a girl in the water. But so that was kind of my introduction to it. And I don't even remember when I finally saw the, you know, the full James Whale movie. I mean, it was, you know, still fairly young, but, you know, young Frankenstein. I probably saw young Frankenstein before I saw the full James Whale Frankenstein, you know. Yeah.

So, I don't know. How much do we feel like this, like Deltour has said, like the Frankenstein was like this incredibly formative text for him, like the James Well movie, the book. Do we feel like this is him ultimately rendering the vision he's been trying to make the whole time? I think so. I mean, I do feel, I mean, he's been working on it for so long. I'd be shocked if it wasn't. I mean, it does feel like this is the movie he wanted to make. I mean, the film is incredibly controlled, right? I mean, it's a remarkable display of his vision, I think. It's like, I have problems with a lot of it, but there's nothing in it feels like a misstep on his part. Like it all, like,

every decision feels like, oh, that's exactly the thing he wanted to do. He didn't run out of time or what I'd not get the shot he wanted. Like, yeah, it feels like he got what he was. Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I think that that's maybe, but maybe his empathy towards the monster or his, you know, ability to relate to that, to that character, maybe it's sort of backfired is a little bit in the fact that his vision of Victor Frankenstein is just so dull, right? I mean, you know, it's a very big, broad performance by Oscar Isaac.

But Oscar Isaac, as far as I'm concerned, is not the kind of actor who gives that kind of big, broad performance. Oscar Isaac, I think of, is a much subtler actor. Like, I love him in something like the card counter, right? Or was it the most dangerous year? Most violent year, yeah. Like, I think he's very good in those.

kind of slow burn parts where you're just kind of watching his face and just kind of watching things dawn and register on his face. Him sort of running around yelling like a crazy person, he's just a lot less interesting that way. In contrast to Kenneth Branagh, who is the king of big bellowing loud-referferferferling. Come on. It's a subtle actor. I mean, like, a great fit for playing a character who is kind of like this egotistical, you

know, like, demanding of people recognize his genius. Again, I don't understand what you're saying. I know. I know. Kenneth Farana. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Like, and this is a movie, this Frankenstein is a movie where, like, you know, Victor, like, literally falls in love with his mother, right? Like, the same, like, Mia Gauthic playing, like, his beloved mother he's fixated on.

And then the woman he, like, sees his brother, fiancé, who he's instantly, like, smitten with. You know, like, that should be a kind of, like, grand and, like, slightly, like, instead it just feels, like, I don't know nothing. It feels so programmed. Yeah, the Isaac thing is weird because I saw him on stage at the public theater in Hamlet. Like, God, it was almost a decade ago at this point, I think. And he was so incredible that, like, I think my headline was like he's the best actor of his generation.

I think he's been so good in the movies you mentioned, Bilda. And I like when an actor goes big. And so I thought I would be kind of exciting to see Oscar Isaac do it here. And yet it just does not work. there's something a bit too too kind of cliche about it or something. Like the British accent is sort of not work. I don't know.

Like, Alison, what do you think? I also think Oscar Isaac is an incredible actor. I do think, part of it is that I think he's a little too in tune to the idea that this character is supposed to be this like, dislikable. I mean, like, so much of what's on the page with that character is already tilting him towards villainy, you know, like, yeah, his fixation on this woman who, like, gives no real kind of reception, right?

Like, he, like, and... She's never even, like, remotely. No, and he, like, at a certain point, like, even berates her for, like, you know, like, not basically being, like, giving him to him. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, really. I mean, that's in the text, right? And then, yeah, like, his... The ways in which he instantly kind of turns on his creation, right?

Like, you know, in this... I mean, it's not a subtle screenplay, but, like, Like, you know, his father is so incredibly hard on him, and he feels like he is just not the right son that his father wants. And whereas his brother, you know, he seems like the perfect child. And then immediately his own surrogate son, when his surrogate son is not, like, developing at the rate that he wants, he's like, you're useless to me. Like, you know, like, this is a disaster. Like, why did I even do this? I don't want you.

And becomes, like, abusive and awful to him. So, like, he's, there's so much on the page that is villainous. And I feel like Isaac just leans into that so much. I mean, it was interesting to me to read about Datoro saying he wanted to cast this version of Victor Frankenstein, not just like as a mad scientist, but as like a kind of rock star, right? And like that the clothing was supposed to be inspired by like 60s and 70s, like British. Well, the hat that one hat after he does his presentation. But I do not think that comes through in the performance. I think the performance like tilts more peevish and tilts much more off-putting.

And I don't think that there's, I think there's a reason that he latched on to that. but I think it makes the character so difficult to attach to you in any way ever. And I think if you're going to lean into the rock stardom that you want to be like, oh, this character is so compelling. But like the one time we see him kind of performing for an audience, right, of all of the medical establishment being like, ho, whoa, whoa, foo, foo, foe, oh. It's the same people who told Charlie Hunnam he couldn't go to the Amazon, you know.

It's the same exact body of that. Exactly. They're just waiting there the whole time. Like, it's a little known fact about, oh, older England is that they just had a bunch of guys in wigs waiting around to be like when young men came into challenge their preconceptions. Yeah, but I mean like that, it doesn't feel like he is performing in this way to be like, look at how incredible I am. You know, all from the beginning, it's clear like he's not, he's like, you know, already going

to be driven out. Like there's no sense of like why he would have like followers or like why people, like he's just from the beginning such a kind of outlier and so often. Yeah. We should feel sorry for this character. And we really don't. And we should wonder what he's up to. I mean, that's, to me, that's Oscar Isaac's great powers that you look at him. And, I mean, when he's acting, this is, you know, when he's, when he's being subtle or understated, you just sort of see the emotions kind of dance across his face and you start to wonder where he's going with this.

and in his best roles, you know, that's that's marvelous. And here there's just no shading, no dimensionality, no sense of unpredictability or anything. He's just, you know, he's just kind of this like screaming guy. And it's, you're watching because we've seen, I mean, you know, the movie is two creation sagas, right? I mean, we see what how Victor became the person he is. And then we see what happened with the monster. And as a result, like, we have all this backstory of him. We should feel like we understand something about this man.

And we don't. We really don't. He becomes progressively more and more like one-dimensional, you know? Yeah. I mean, I thought about Inside Lewin Davis, which, you know, is an incredible movie and has an incredible Oscar-I as an experiment. And it is one that I think bears some relation in a little bit to this character of this, you know, he is someone who is, like, yearning for this kind of like for this ability to chase

his creative or artistic dream and realize his vision and to kind of like also be recognized, you know, for his genius and never has that. And it's also a character who does a lot of very dislikable things, you know, but like you have no trouble

understanding that character and have no trouble, I think, like, empathizing with him even when he can be like a piece of shit. I mean, his hamlet was so good for that reason. But it was like so human even when he's acting, well, play acting is crazy

or being petulant to a feelier or whatever. Like you got the moment, you felt so sad for him. the whole time. And that's hard to do. And I've always had issues with Lewin Davis because I find that movie like, I'm into it and then it just gets a little too prickly and it puts me off or something. But the more I watch that movie, the more I appreciate what Isaac is doing in it. Yeah. And I think that there is something missing at the core of this Frankenstein, which is to be like the idea of wanting to best death, to be like, death is something we should not have to put up with. And this is born out of like, my own ego, but also my, like, terrible loss of the only person in my life who, like, you know, like, showed me love and softness. Like, it should be those two forces, like, you know, should be present. And you don't really know. Like, I don't think in this movie, you've watched him and be like, I know why you're so obsessed with doing this impossible thing, you know, like, I'm trying to beat God.

Like, I don't really know on this. It's entirely an academic kind of exercise for him. Yeah, I mean, Isaac can do ambitious. He can do longing. Like, these are things that are with his powers as an actor to really convey and make impactful. It's almost like Del Toro didn't trust him or Del Toro had like his visual style and his vision of the movie in hand before he cast that actor, you know? And I think I think it's a miscalculation on that part. Yeah, and I also like between Star Wars and this, it's like I just would love him to ask Isaac to get back to the smaller stuff. I mean, he did do a play a couple years ago that transferred to Broadway

that was, I saw it, it was fine, he was good in it, but, like, I just, I'm, I'm yearning for more of the, you know, most violent year, Lewin Davis, kind of, you know.

Ex Machina. X. Machina is incredible. Another, yeah. And that's kind of mid-range. Like, he's not too, too subtle in that, but, you know, you know, he did that big Christian Bail epic about,

was it about Turkey and Armenia, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. The Promise, you know, like he's done kind of different sized things but I just want him to I want to see that sort of more present accessible Oscar Isaac again

I don't know it's been a while it feels like can we talk about Mia Gath in this I think she looks great she does look I mean she has an incredible face I do feel like I don't know that performance is like almost just like though like you know like but when she's wearing like a feather headdress like all of her like incredible veils like

and the colors she's wearing, I think, are amazing. But, you know, when she gives... Great fails, amazing, yeah. When she gives the speech about how she and the butterfly are basically the same, these, like, strange creatures, but, like, iris... I feel like, I'm like, that's every role you play, Mia Gough. It's like, you know, like that. You're like, I'm like the delicate, weird butterfly.

Like, um... Again, it also feels expected. It's like, if Deltoro makes a Frankenstein movie, of course, Mia Gauth plays Elizabeth. You know, it just, it felt obvious in a way, kind of like, the brain's falling out of the head or whatever. I kind of expected exactly that performance, and that's what's given to us. What do we think of Crystal Faults, though? Well, I mean, having just seen him in Lupus on Dracula, I think this is- He wasn't acting in that, though. He had just not by the set. No, that's right. He was like, oh, you guys are where we have common cause today.

I'm hunting this monster. I, on second rewatch, I think Waltz is good, you know? I mean, he's doing his waltzy thing, but it really works here. And I also think that that desperate almost final scene where it's revealed that he has syphilis and he delineates like how it's going to progress and it's going to be horrible. Like that to me is the sort of raw, squalid, squirming humanity that you're dying for from that whole first half of the movie. Yeah. I mean, something I think Deltoro pointed out this comparison himself, which I thought was funny, which is like that there is an aspect to which, you know, Victor is a director and Waltz is playing

like the studio and it's being like especially in this case of this project like his like Deltore's dream project where they're like you can have all the resources you want but I will ask you for this one thing later maybe it will involve streaming

yeah but yeah sometimes you're also like Cipolis sorry sometimes it's also you're like maybe maybe you don't want to get all the resources you want in exchange for one thing there's always a catch

yeah that's well that's an interesting point I like that I just, my problem is, like, and it's not just with this movie, but maybe especially with this movie, but like, there are times, I don't like some of the surreality of Del Toro's world. And in this, I'm just like, oh, so then Victor moves into Crimson Peak. Like that house with the crate, like the creepy staircase, the circular window up in the attic. Like, I've seen that a zillion times, not just in Del Toro movies. Like, it just, it didn't feel inventive. And so I didn't really know why he was doing this. And then, when you get to the monster and that version of it and that performance you're like, oh, okay, so there was a distinct idea of how to do this. But yeah, like you guys have already said, that the first half of the movie

feels like sort of pro just kind of going through the motions to get to where he wants to go. That's a problem when it's an hour and a half of the movie. Yeah, I think also... I don't know. I think now if I'm just going to keep steering in the conversation back to Hellboy 2. I mean...

It is nominated for Best Picture this year, so... I think, like, You look at, you know, this kind of, like, comic book monster, in this case, comic book hero. But you're like, okay, he is a giant red guy, you know, has like a stone hand, has horns, is the son of the devil may or may not destroy. Stop talking about Kenneth Brown on this way. This is getting ridiculous. I respect his work as an actor. You know, may destroy the world someday.

Like, has, like, genuine kind of, like, baggage in terms of the idea of actually being the hero. There is an aspect of the lordy Frankenstein monster here where I'm just like, it's almost like a kind of stereotype of like a YAA fantasy thing where you're like, oh, it's so awful that I'm like, oh, these both worlds, I'm just super strong and I'm immortal and I'm tall and like, you know,

hot and just striking looking and everyone hates me because of that. You know, you're like kind of like, I don't know that your problems are real here. Like, you know, like, did you get sorted into Gryvindor? Yeah, I'm like, I need like real discomfort or real kind of like

behaves of some of the reason. You know, like, it's funny, like, when he first goes out into the real world and then he like has that moment with the kind of like the deer or whatever. And people like shoot at him immediate. And you're like, why are they shooting at him? He mostly looks like a guy wearing a cloak. Like there's no reason to they look at him

and immediately be like, what is that monster? They've seen Prometheus. They know what things that look like that can do. Well, there's that shot of him waking up in that, you know, in that puddle of, water with like the castle burning what i call the prometheus shot yeah but that is but that's the moment when the movie like comes to life for me because suddenly i saw that shot and i'm like i'm up like okay what's what's happening next because it felt like such a such a dramatic change in both tone

and also lighting yeah that at that moment i thought okay wait something interesting is about to happen and it does um but you're right i mean the thing i keep thinking oh sorry this is just going to turn to just a giant reclamation project for Kenneth Branaghs-Rankenstein which is a movie still widely aided by people. But, you know, De Niro in that film is so pathetic,

right? And that, that pathos, that, that smallness is actually, like, works really well, especially contrasted with,

you know, Branau's kind of bellowing performance. And here, I mean, again, Allorty is fantastic, but there is, like, the cards are kind of stacked.

Like, it is kind of, like, well, of course you're going to love this guy, you know? Yeah, and one of the people looking after him, the younger woman on the farm is Lauren Collins from DeGrassey the next generation. I mean, I mean, this is this is teen royalty all grown up. So that's another way that he's trying to win your affectionate. Well, it's funny that even, you know, Frankenstein himself is like jealous of his supposedly, you know, nightmarish monster creature because he's like, you know, like the girl I like.

Yeah. She likes you more. And I mean, that's an element that is like underplayed in the movie, but it's definitely like... So Frankenstein's a real Mary Sue, basically. You're saying, you know. Yes. Well, David, you can't say yes. It's not automatic door. I have to...

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Advertised annual percentage yield with Chime Plus status only. Otherwise, 1.00% APY applies. No mean balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. To bring this back around to the Oscars, like this is, I think, like, obviously like this incredible feat of production design, of costume design, of like all of these things. Do we see this as a movie that is going to do well in those categories? Or does this, is this movie that, is this movie that, like is going to get nominated, got nominated for a lot of things, but then doesn't end up winning anything. Sinners is nominated for a lot of these same things, right?

Yeah, that's the thing, is that it's the other kind of really like joggernaut blockbuster, but that it also has the political weight behind it and these great performances. And those are just like much more alive as a movie. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think that, look, the Academy clearly really likes Del Toro something about, I think, I mean, Pan's Labrint thing that was like the sort of like broke the damn a little bit and then obviously shape of water performed so incredibly well nightmare alley managing to get a

best picture nomination and that movie was pretty you know tepidly received as something so i would be surprised in a way if it went home with nothing it's just a matter of like where is sinners or something else a little bit weaker you know well here's my other question i feel like there was this moment especially with shape of water which again it's a movie i like a lot but i think is a movie that at the time everyone was like, can you believe this movie about a lady who, like, has sex with a fish man? Like, that's going to win. Best Picture. But it is actually, like, really not that wild.

It's a sentimental love story, period. It's a remake of Splash. Yeah, I mean, exactly. How many, we watched Splash last year? I was like, wait, this is the shape of water. Right down to what the core. I've always said that Sally Hawkins is our modern Tom Hanks. Yeah, you have often said that.

I've been very confused until this way, and now it's something that makes sense. But, you know, shape of water is supposed to be like the wild freaky, choice. And I think it is like, but it is like, I think much gentler. And like actually, I mean, it is a kind of beauty and the beast story, right? But without even like the rage, like the, the monster in this is like in many a del Toro thing, actually, like the kind of most sympathetic and not misunderstood creature of them all. And aside from, you know, like that one hand gesture that Sally Hawkins gives to explains how how she and the fishman had their night together, It really, I think, it doesn't get as freaky as maybe everyone would like to be, like, from the description.

I wonder if, like, maybe there was this, if, I don't know if it's Del Toro seeing himself that way, but there was this moment where Del Toro was going to be the kind of, like, the freaky side of the academy. And, like, now, actually, I feel like Yorgos Lanthamos is, like, much more, like, bringing the genuine, like, freaky stuff, you know, we talked about... Zero sentiment, you know, social message, really, you know. is like really kind of like pushing harder in terms of like of doing weird stuff like where does that leave del Toro is he like a safer choice well he's kind of i mean he's almost like kind of this establishment choice at this point i mean especially because he's he's won and has had the kind of there is the kind of um oscar gauntlet career gauntlet that you go through it you win and then you become you get nominated for things that people didn't expect you to be nominated i mean spielberg is kind of the classic you're example. Sure. He's just there every year, you know. And so he's, yeah, he's become kind of the establishment.

But at the same time, it's, it is an interesting sign of how far we've come, you know, that Guillermo del Toro is like Oscar royalty at this point. Like, he makes a movie and it's kind of like, yeah, it'll probably get nominated for best picture at this point, no matter what it is, you know, whether it's a remake of Frankenstein. I mean, it's not that common for, you know, these types of films to get nominated. I mean, I think probably Coppola would have loved if it was 30-something years ago. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, Coppola is a great example of that.

I mean, you know, I mean, I love Bram Stoker's Dracula. Sure. But that's another film that at the time, a lot of people, including me, were kind of like, that was a little over the top. Sure. Not all this works. Am I sure all these performances are doing what you want them to? I saw that in the theaters when I was about nine years old with my friend,

because his parents were going to see, I believe they went to go see the Don Johnson Rebecca de Morne thriller Guilty as Sin and they were like that's too grown up for you so we'll have we'll buy you tickets to Bram Stoker's Dracula

we'll have this younger couple like you know young adults escort you in as if they're your like babysitters or whatever and then so the ushers won't kick you out or whatever and about 30 minutes

into the Coppola movie I was like I think I'm too young for this like I just sort of almost like I mean I sat through the whole thing but yeah I had like looked up it was reference somewhere

I looked up the what was described on YouTube in the clip as like Dracula Bites Lucy and someone in the comments was like, oh, is that what we're calling it? I'm like, yeah,

that is a scene I should probably not have seen when I, when I, the age I did. Bilga, how are you feeling about, I mean, I know that Oscars aren't

your like number one interest in the movie world, but like, how are you feeling about like this year's race? Like, you know, we had joked at the top of the show that we were a little hard

on train dreams and maybe a little less hard on Hamnet, but we had some, critiques. Do you feel like do you like the 10 or are their favorites among them? I like the 10. I mean, I don't think there's a single movie on there that I would say I don't like. Okay, that's great. I mean, there are films that I'm more ambivalent about than others. My top four movies this year were train dreams, caught by the tides, Hamnet, and F1.

Hey, so you did really well. I did well, you know. And it's funny because I feel like, the three nominees in that four are like, you know, I've all become like villains of one, you know, one former or another this season. With F1, everyone assuming that F1 somehow took the place of it was just an accident

when clearly it was Bogonia that took the place of it. I would agree with that. But, yeah, you know, what was your kind of response to either the Hamnet or the train dreams backlash as much as to, Is there me Train Dreams backlash?

There was briefly on Twitter. Oh, yeah, I wrote a whole article about it. The Train Dreams Wars. When it first showed up on Netflix, there was this initial wave of people kind of hating on it, but also kind of being baffled by the love for it. This was before it was nominated, which I thought was actually delightful. I mean, even though I absolutely adore Train Dreams, I was like, this is kind of the power of Netflix, their ability to, like, get a movie out in front of everybody. And even if it's just for a weekend, get them talking about it. In a way, especially with a film like Train Dreams, because you look at what the fate of Train Dreams would have been otherwise.

It would have been picked up by a smaller distributor. It would have played IFC Center. It probably would not have at any point become like a trending topic. It would come in that rubber-banded pack of Magnolia DVD screeners. Which they don't even send anymore, which I still, I mean, I cherished those. Me too. But, so, you know, like, ultimately Netflix buying that movie turned out well for it, even though, you know, a lot of us were kind of not upset, but a little concerned when, I mean, my, literally, I think the last line of my review was, please for the love of God, don't watch this movie on your, on your phone, you know, because they had just bought it when I reviewed it. But, and they did write by it. They did put it in theaters, you know, it wasn't around for that long, but they did put it in theaters.

but they did put it in theaters. It did play. Same with Frankenstein, you know. I feel like they're kind of coming around to the idea of putting movies in theaters, but who knows what, you know. You said it was your number one. It was my number one, yeah. What did you like about it? I mean, I respond to these stories that kind of try and take in a large swath of someone's life.

I mean, it reminds me a lot of, you know, other films I enjoy, like, you know, Barry Lyndon, which is probably my favorite film of all time. and um... Frankenstein. Franklin. Yeah. Um, but, uh,

I love the fact that it's, it's a film built out of relatively mundane details, um, that, you know, leads to an overpowering conclusion or an overwhelming conclusion. And I think, I mean,

it's probably, of the films I've reviewed this year, it's probably the one I've gotten the most feedback on from people. A lot of people who really love it. The question is, you know, why don't you love it? Well, yeah, I mean, I think that I appreciate a lot of the aesthetics.

I've seen it three times, and I think that I started to see a little bit of some synthetic fabric in there, like the way that it's trying to get us to feel things and think about America, life in the world. But when that backlash happened and your piece came out, I was very, even though I wasn't the hugest fan of that movie, I was very much on your side because I thought the critiques of it, and this is people snarking on Twitter. or, you know, which is, you know, but like, oh, the voiceover makes it like a credit card commercial or whatever. And I was like, well, that's not really true. I think the voiceover is really nice in that movie, but, yeah. I said my piece.

It was interesting. I wrote another piece, something I wrote for the Yale review about films that are influenced by Terrence Malick. I mean, looking at kind of the whole, you know, last 20, 30 years of films influenced by Terrence Malick. And that was one of them. I mean, it was pegged to that and Hamnet, actually. And while there are, you know, clearly Malik-like touches in the film, I found it fascinating that people said the voiceover was Malikian, which it isn't. No, it's not at all. You know, Terence Malik does first-person voiceovers, very limited on a stream of consciousness and very fallible voice story.

He does not do kind of omniscient narration. And I found it fascinating that people kept saying, oh, this is just like Terrence Malik, like this voiceover. I'm like, actually it isn't. It's more kind of the Jewel-Legime model of voiceover. Yeah, I didn't hear Will Patton ever say, father, mother, you always wrestle in me or whatever. Yeah, you know, that didn't happen one time.

Yeah, I think I'll be a mud doctor, you know. But at the same time, you know, he's become kind of synonymous with voiceover, so maybe that's what it is. You know, I think it's a beautiful film. I do think, you know, the differences with the novella that people have talked about and how the novella is a lot thornier and more kind of politically complicated. That's all well taken. I actually think that by making this character less complicit and less guilty but still racked by guilt, I actually think in a weird way, it's more politically damning, right? the idea of kind of a person who watches this stuff happen doesn't partake in it,

but still feels the guilt of what he's witnessed and what he's failed to intervene against, even though he couldn't have done anything. They would have just gotten shot along with everyone else. But that to me, I think, is one, on one level, very relatable, but also on another level, you know, like I said, incredibly damning, right? I mean, and it's a feeling that I think a lot of people sense. And even though train dreams is not ultimately all about that, I mean, it's about a number of different things and the idea of feeling like, you know, there's some kind of, you know, that you've been condemned carmically almost, which feeds into both the, you know, both what happens with the migrant workers, but also with the idea that they're just like tearing down these forests. and they become, you know, later on in the film, when you see kind of how mechanized the whole logging operation has become and how careless, you know, you feel bad for him and you feel bad for the other old timers in the way that they've kind of been cast aside.

But at the same time, this is the world they've created, you know, right? I mean, they were kind of, you know, the vanguard of this. So how complicit are they? I think these are all interesting things that the film, I think, tackles in a fascinating and very, compelling way, but obviously different from the novella. And I know a lot of people have issues with that, but, you know. Well, unfortunately, you've now given yourself a new role in that every time we're negative about a movie, you have to come two weeks later. And offer the rebuttals. That was, I appreciate that, Billy. Thank you. Um, we're going to put you on the spot one more time.

All right. Let's do it. Defend Hamnet in five minutes or less. Which I like, by the way. I like him. Okay, you like him. Yeah, I do. I think people, I think I maybe didn't sound as positive about it as I meant to be. The ending makes me sob, so that's an effective movie. I'm dead inside, so... You're dead inside? Well, it's okay. I mean, again, a film that absolutely wrecked me, reduced me to tears. I've seen it like four times at this point

every time I cry harder. I think it's beautifully done. I love... Again, actually, you know, as I was saying, it kind of has that same cadence, not quite the same cadence as train dreams, but it does have that sort of just marches forward with these lives. You know, I love the novel, too. And the novel is, I mean, it's like, the film is like faithful and somehow also not.

Because the novel doesn't have a linear structure. It just keeps coming back to the day of Hamnet's death. And it kind of just circles that. And I remember when I went into the film, I thought to myself, how the hell are they going to turn this into a movie? Like, this is going to be just absolutely. You can't just keep going back to this child dying. It'll be horrible.

And obviously, they don't do that. they kind of forge forward, you know, because the novel doesn't feel like a book about the writing of Hamlet. The film does feel like a film about the writing of Hamlet, which is, you know, I mean, it's my favorite play, you know, widely considered by a lot of people, you know, the greatest play in the English language, although, you know, others may disagree. But the fact that they would take on a topic like this, the fact that they would say, okay, we're going to do the creation of Hamlet. I thought that was just like brazen and beautiful. And I think, I mean, to me it works really well. I love the fact that there are two versions of the to be or not-to-be speech in it, two very different versions of it, as if to kind of say, hey, you know,

everybody has their own version of Hamlet. That final moment, I mean, is probably the best depiction of catharsis I've ever seen. I just saw a film that was at Sundance where they're talking about catharsis and how catharsis works. And I just kept thinking Hamnet is like a perfect example of You know like this is what it is That one to one connection is You know

Is representative of what great art is supposed to do Yeah I agree with a lot of that I just do wish that it had ended with Hamnet chasing his father across the Arctic I think that would have really been a lot more powerful But that's how most movies end So I feel like maybe it's good that everyone's in while we mix it up Yeah Yeah

What's the Shakespeare play with exit chase by a bear Winterstale? Yeah I played a guard in that I was a teenager. Well, speaking of great art, Richard Lawson's doppelganger, the AI

Richard Lawson. Yes, so last week Ben found my alternate what existence, right? Like, there's an AI journalist named Richard Lawson, who I think they're just trying to make me kind of. Well, they're clearly just like, like, this is a thing where like

these slop sites will like put things under a byline and it won't be claiming to be this Richard, but it will be like Richard Lawson and they have a whole bio and a picture of someone and they're clearly trying to get like SEO traffic. We think. At any given time,

there are thousands of people searching my name on Google. I'm assuming, right? I'm doing it right now. Yeah, yeah. Well, the other Richard Lawson was writing about the Super Bowl. Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Because I wasn't watching it,

so my toppleganger had to. So the other Richard Lawson has already today published nine pieces. Yeah, no, I'm amazing. I'm incredible. That's the Richard Loss. Yeah, yeah. No, I've reviewed so many things.

The AI, Richard Lawson, like to finish my withering. Ranking for me. I need some sleep. Yeah, yeah. Some, the AI somehow, like, names number one, the Cape Bush song. Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly. Not a bad choice.

So I thought it might be a good opportunity to talk about some of the Super Bowl. Oh, yeah. collaborations, new trailers and stuff that... Yeah, well, there was the surprise trailer for the... The Adventures of Cliff Booth. Yeah, which Fincher directed Tarantino-Ritten. Yes. And I got to say, when I read about that movie,

I kind of didn't believe it was actually a real thing for, like, the better part of a year or whatever. Neither did I. And then I watched the... And then I kind of started dreading it when it became clear that it was real. But I don't know. The trailer... The trailer looked amazing.

I think I don't do it. I actually missed the trailer. Oh, okay. And they haven't put it online officially yet, So they've been really sneaky. It's online now. Is it like, is it officially? Yeah, it's, it looks fun.

It looked great. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I loved months of fun of time in Hollywood. I love David Fincher. I was, I've been worried about his like weird tenure with Netflix, which seems to have led to making, I don't know. I mean, odd, sometimes likable projects, but like with them increasingly being like, that's too much money, you can't have it. So like, for Tarantino to be like, here's a script and Netflix to be like, okay, have a lot of money.

Brad Pitt will be in it. I'm all of four. Elizabeth DeBickey's in it being tall, as previously discussed. That's right. That's right. One of her many strong suits. Yeah, I don't know. I thought it looked great. Did any of you watch any of the ads that were directed by big directors? Because I kind of... I think there's a Yorgos one? I miss that one. I miss Yorgos. Were there multiple Yorgos directed ones? There was a Yorgos. There was a Tycho YTG one. He's been directing a lot of ads. Yeah. Was there anyone else?

Probably, I mean, everyone, there were a lot of big actors also in this. Remember, there was a Dunkin' Donuts thing that was an atrocity. Yeah. Wait, tell me what was that, because I want. You have to describe it back. Oh, God. It was, well, de-aged versions of, it was kind of a goodwill hunting thing, except that, you know, the Matt Damon character was played by Ben Affleck in this case with like a bad wig. Okay.

But it was all kind of characters from 80s, 90s sitcoms, and, you know, it. I mean, Ted Danson was there from Cheers. Oh, wow. I mean, it was, it was horrifying. And everybody's face kind of looked like it was sort of floating. Yeah, Princess Light style. It was like bad de-aging. And I don't even know what the point of it was ultimately other than, at the end, Tom Brady showed up.

And I was watching with my son and his friend, and they had no idea who any of these people were, except for Tom Brady. They're like, what's Tom Brady doing that? And I was like, with all those randos. So apparently, so Taiga-Y-T-T did the Pepsi ad, which I do not remember. Spike Jones did the Ben Stiller ad for Instacart, which I vaguely remember. Joseph Kaczynski, your guy, he did the Kurt Russell, I guess Lewis Pullman one. I didn't see that one either. Wait, it's Kurt Russell in an ad for Lewis Pullman?

Yeah, he's like, I think it's slightly confusing because it's like, Lewis Pullman is like, oh no if you always have to like you're the worst skier of the friend group so you always have to buy the round at the bar and then kurt russell turns up the bar and is like i can help you with that i can train you how to ski but then you're kind of like it feels like it should be either wyatt russell or bill like like you know you're like there's a celebrity dad like like kind of like weirdness there that you're like uh um and then your girls i guess did two ads uh squarespace and grubhub hub so oh the george cloney grubhubhub yes so people were mad about that i i missed that one um but yeah remember when like it used to be embarrassing for stars to do as when they'd go to Japan and like, yeah, I kind of miss that. I think we need to bring them back.

Well, that, yeah, the sentiment I saw last night that was kind of centered on the Clooney thing was like, we need to bring back like a really stringent 80s or early 90s sense of selling out. Yes, yeah. Because like we've gone too far. What was the commercial that sort of broke that damn? Do we remember? Oh, like a while ago. I feel like if I thought about it for a few minutes, I could remember. I mean, the George Cloning Nisprosso ads did make their way over. or the Atlantic from Europe at some point.

And became like an ongoing punchline, right? Yeah. To this day. Maybe the American Express ads. American Express. That was the whole thing. They would have famous people, you know. Stephen King did one.

I think that the American, Amex definitely was an early thing. Honestly, and this sounds like maybe I'm nagging like a major, you know, media platform. But like, I kind of feel like when movie stars started doing television, that sort of was like blurred the line. enough they were like okay well how blurry can this get you know like we could um because yeah now and i think it was also like voice over stuff like not that he was a big star but billy crudup doing mastercard for years right right right um activity yeah Jamie Lee Curtis doing actibia absolutely and then

parry did an SNL you know um i think billy crudup did did master card before he kind of hit it big right he had he was around like he had done his earlier stuff and he'd done almost famous and all that but like, yeah, he wasn't like, you know, it was before all this current success. But, but yeah, I mean, I guess like, I don't know, I just bring back sort of shame about that. You'd have to bring back shame on many, many levels before you. Like, the problem isn't those commercials. The problem is just shame. Just doesn't exist.

Although I will say I spent my weekend watching the Olympics mostly on like the Peacock app, which is great. And you can, but you still do get commercials. and for whatever reason, all I've seen are commercials for Red Bull and then, like, medicines with horrifying side effects. That's it. Which I guess Red Bill is kind of, too. The side effects may include death.

Did you know that one symptom of depression is sadness? No, it's good. I like when they're like, do not use if you are allergic to this medication. Have you ever ever even thought about being pregnant? Do not come within 50 feet of this drug. Like, yeah. Is it a side effect of depression or side effect of the medication you take for depression that you could get?

potential side effects of the depression medication is depression symptoms like sad. Oh, my God. It's another way of saying our medication doesn't work. Exactly, exactly. But you know it does work? Good old Team USA. We won the team's figure skating, so happy about that. No, I wanted the Japanese to win.

They were better. Anyway, well, Belva, thank you. This was great. We'll have to have you back at some point. And do we have a winner or a loser this week or a memoriam we want to do? I guess our winner is Ben Affle. for continuing that Dunkin' Donuts thing, even while making fun of himself

for still being on that Boston schick, as I think is part of the ad, someone making fun of him for that. And, you know, I'll say as a native of Boston, from the actual city of Boston, by the way, not some stubborn. No, it still works on me a little bit. Like, I still am kind of charmed by it.

Even though he did not have a Boston accent growing up, he's from Cambridge, not Boston. I still kind of like it. So I will probably go watch that ad, even if it is an abomination. Next week, a certain corner of the internet might be excited because we're headed to Brazil. We're going to bone up on our Portuguese

to talk about the secret agent, which is available to rent now. It just got, I think, put on demand last week. So if you're watching along at home, it should be accessible to you. Critical Darling's is a blank check production in association with Vulture. Hosted by Alison Wilmore and Richard Lawson.

Produced by Benjamin Frisch, Executive produced by Griffin Newman and Neil Janowitz. Video production and distribution by Anne Victoria Clark, Wolfgang Ruth, and Jennifer Jean.