Blank Check with Griffin & David - Hail, Caesar! with Shirley Li

Episode Date: November 9, 2025

Would that it twere so simple to lasso that lazy ol’ moon! This week, we’re chatting about all the studio shenanigans in Hail, Caesar! with our pal Shirley Li. Speaking of Shirley, we all knew she was skilled at getting David “The Dog” Sims off the leash, but did you know that she also attended researcher JJ’s wedding?! Lore drop! Join us as we unpack the careers of Channing Tatum and Alden Ehrenreich, gush over the gorgeous near-Technicolor cinematography, and celebrate the love of da moviesh that comes through so clearly in this film. Read Shirley's work Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blank Jack with Griffin and David Blank Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check You're going to do it because you're an actor And that's what you do Just like the director does what he does And the writer and the script girl and the guy who claps the slate

And you're going to do it because the podcast has worth. And if you have worth and you have worth, if you serve the podcast, and you're never going to forget that again. It's so good. I'm going to cry. Should we take it again? Yeah. I stumbled on the one line.

Do you have any, any, do you have any, what do you think more tripping with? I think just like with more roof. Roof. Rufel. Okay, and I'll do a mirthless chuckle at the beginning. Oh, yeah, please. Ready? Yeah.

It was a little too small. Let me try that again. you're going to do it because you're an actor and that's what you do just like the director does what he does and the writer and the script girl and the guy who claps the slate you're going to do it because the podcast has worth and you have worth if you serve the podcast and you're never going to forget that again

is that too rueful no that was great and the cough was good i think that was good that we captured yeah david has been sick for six months it feels like since the live show since the live show yeah i like got sick right after the live show, and then I was like, I guess I'm not sick anymore. And then I was like, I'm sick again. Is it the same? Or is it new? I think it's new.

It's, JJ brought it. You're right. It is JJ's disease. You know what? Now that we actually have someone who knew JJ when he was an awful teenager, essentially. I think I forgot this part of the Lord. Our guest went to his wedding to whatever. A fool married him. Which is the last time I've seen JJ.

Oh. Shirley. Here you. my question. You guys have seen JJ before I have. Yes, but we've also only seen him two times ever in our wife. Hi, JJ. I've shouted out JJ every time I've been on and I feel like it led to this point. Jay J.J. literally, I literally got in touch with JJ because Shirley was like, hey, can my annoying friend like DM you on Twitter? I never said annoying. Can my annoying friend ruin your lives forever? It was basically, not annoying, but so like, hey, my friend's like a huge fan. Is it okay if I like, yeah? Shirley was like, mind if I what about Bob? I asked for consent. having people to group chats.

We love JJ, but I have a question for you, Shirley. Uh-oh. Because someone needs to take responsibility for this. Did you know that JJ was hot or was he not hot back when you knew him? Because you should have warned us and we shouldn't have hired him. He was telling me that his trip to New York has involved, what was it, like a startling number of people telling him how tall he is. People are thirst-trapping. And he's a fucking tall drink of water.

I mean, I always knew JJ was cute. JJ, you're a cutie. He's just fucking... He's a good-looking guy. All of my friends are hot, including the three of you. Do you feel better? Thank you. I appreciate that, but here's the thing.

You're a journalist, and so your responsibility is to the truth. Yes. I am just going to say this candid. To my 20 million readers. Yes. I appreciate you saying that, but I'm going to say this candidly. AJ, Alan Smithy, and JJ are all so much hotter than the three of us, and it sucks. A good-looking guys.

It sucks. It sucks at the three guys who are not primarily. God, you're so mad. on mic are so fucking hands like editing just puts you in some kind of like great like workout like they're all in good shape they all got great hair yeah they all got good posture yeah i don't know it's not a competition griff the whole thing with jj i serve the podcast because the podcast has worth and that's what it's about yeah i don't know if you would agree with me or not shirley lee who we haven't introduced yet that's okay and we won't introduce the show yeah right it's going to be also

Shirley Lee, my close friend. Well, please, don't even get close introduced. Right. But that is the main credit you want to be introduced. My friend, Shirley Lee, who works with me, but we haven't introduced her yet. No, not to the podcast. JJ, you know, online and sort of in his communication,

so comes off like a little shy or more introverted, I suppose. And then he's got that BDE in person. Right, we're like, hey, so JJ, like, hi, nice to meet you finally, in IRL, so the show's tomorrow. and like just you're cool with us like bringing you on stage and like doing bits with you. I'm imagining your mouths like a gape. Like

wide open. We were worried that we were going to be doing something cruel by even asking him to appear on stage. That is just going to be a nervous wreck. And JJ's like yeah it's fine. I'll do that. I've lectured in front of people at college and I'm like oh yeah sure. I mean I guess it's sort of

like that and then like you walks on stage like our senior wolf walks on stage everyone's going ballistic he does everything perfectly and then where I'm like I'm like this guy doesn't want to get off the stage and not like he needs like he's drinking and he's just kind of like yeah I'm chill

up here as long as you need me we called Sandman to give him the cane and tap dance him off the stage and Samman was like no I like this guy Samman tried to get me off I'm like wait what's going on? And then like he walks off stage and after he's like that was fun and then he's like tweeting like

you know what a great moment in my life and I'm like the chillest IRL Yeah JJ is the chillest person texting with him is not a chill experience And I was just like

Oh my God Me and airplane You know Sweating meme Right He's gonna be fucking Like Luca Bratsey Preparing to meet

Don Corleone Having dinner with him And then we I show up and it was the energy Of like And you are Oh I yeah

Yeah I don't want JJ to have the same fate As Luca But JJ yeah Is the chillest person On the planet. But, like, Luka-Brasi, right? I suppose.

Yeah. How old's Luka-Brasi do you think when he fucking gets absolutely murdered? I can't tell ages. Yeah. And I'll tell you, look, JJ's not going to have the same fate as Luka Brazzi. Luka-Bratzi was murdered and J-J-J-J-as only fired. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was a mob.

It is, in a way. It's true. I mean, it's kind of like Hale Caesar. It's like, right, does it take organized crime in a form, a legalized, organized crime ring to make a context clues. Context clues, according to Google says, it's reasonable to estimate he was in his early 50s. Okay. So, so I was pretty far off.

Had those city miles on him. Yeah, I mean, it feels like Luca Brazzi's had, like, exactly, like, kind of a crazy, like, yeah. Yeah. He's done some stuff. At least it's not, like, the Cheers meme, though. If you told me Luca Brasi, it was, like, 26. Right. Who is it in Cheers?

It's, like, Norm is, like, right, Norm's five. At the start of Cheers. He just graduated kindergarten. Everyone's, like, 28 years old. Everyone other than Nicholas Connozanto was under 37. Right. And even coach is only 42. Yeah.

Right. He's like, I'm old. I mean, like, it's kind of that vibe back then, right? I think he was like 52. He wasn't even that old. Ratsenberger was the oldest looking man who has ever lived. And you're like, they plucked him out of high school. This is Blank Shack with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. This is a really good intro. Yeah. Colossantu died at the age of 61. Okay. It's like such a bummer. Yeah. He was just in his 50s on Cheers.

Yeah. And he was already. bad state they offered him the party didn't want to do it because he said like i'm too old my mind is going i don't think i have the strength for it and they were like you're 57 and he was right yeah uh he's incredible in that show wow what a note to start on this is like a perfect uh intro to scare off any new list yeah i'm sorry who's jumping on with straight into deep lore our own internal fucking lore but here's the thing i'll build to this point it's a blank check with griffin and david i'm griff it's a podcast about filmographies direct

who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want and sometimes those checks clear, sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. I was trying to think of a serves the picture thing, but I couldn't do it.

It's a mini series on the films of the Cohen brothers, Joel Nathan Cohen. That's right. It is called Podcountry for old casts. Probably. We assume. We actually can't remember there's no way to double check at this point.

And people are just going to have to listen to four months of us second-guessing ourselves every time we say it. But this, today we're talking about Hail Caesar. Yes. Which it's funny to think, sort of feels like their last film together. Because of the weird nature of Scruggs and Scruggs being like, was this meant to be a TV show? Was this designed to short films? It was released as a film, but that was like a very last second switch. And this does sort of feel like a retirement film in an odd way, even though it's

certainly didn't seem like it at the time. No, but I know what you mean in terms of like it's a sort of farewell to movies or whatever. Yeah. The way Ethan and Joel has talked about Ethan's burnout and just being like, I need to take a breather. Right. This feels like a movie of guys who have just been like working nonstop and are sort of like,

why do we care about movies? Why do we care about art? Is there any worth in what we do? Yes. Yeah. Yes. And it like comes to a place of like confidence, but also. a place where it feels like maybe I'm ready to step away

right. Is that my final statement? Ethan's like yeah what motivates me now lesbians? Yes, dimos so many lesbians just the more the better Yeah how many lesbians are in this movie Like two he's like Not enough

All right we've added eight more Okay okay I'll direct it right now Can I become the bizarro DJ Khaled of cinema Hale Caesar A great film A masterpiece Uh, yes, a wonderful film. I have a very distinct memory of you and I.

We were at Ray's Pizza getting ready to go to the final showing ever at the Ziegfeld theater. We certainly did go to that. It was fucking Force Awakens playing in its second month in January before it closed and we went to that. We were getting pizza beforehand. You told me you saw Hail Caesar earlier that day. You said, it's really great. And I said, that's awesome.

I love when the Cohen brothers do their kind of just like fun romp things. And you looked at me very seriously and went, no, this is like. like a masterpiece um absolutely i mean right it was released in what february right so it's like i feel like everyone was kind of like okay so this is just a convection you know like right sold in a very similar fashion to burn after reading of like we got a bunch of this big stars doing silly stuff um and that movie as i like to remind people did bizarrely well is completely forgotten it felt like they were doing the exact same marketing tactic and i was like i'm on board for another one of those And you were like, this is profound.

This movie is profound. It's about everything. I saw it. I was not befuddled by it, but I was like, yeah, it's fun. I don't know if I quite see what David's seeing. I think you more had the reaction most people had to it of like, fun. Fun. Yeah.

And some great stuff in it. And then it's one of those movies that like two weeks later, I was like, I got to go see that again. And I watched it. I saw it three times in theaters. I saw it at least two, if not three. I've watched it at least five times since then. It's a movie that fucking rocks and rolls And speaking of rock and rolling

Our guest today, you might know her best as Well, should we hold off on this? No, let's do it. Friend and co-worker. What if you never do it? We've done that bit and it's fine But I feel like it's sort of like, you know. It also works better when we do it to Hoffman

Because he gets more irritated by it. Oh, he wants to be introduced. Yeah, and we've held off And now he starts introducing himself From the Atlantic. Shirley Lee, far too long. one of the most requested why has it been so long

since Shirley was on the show and the reason why is people go all around great guest great personality great jokes great laugh but more than anything she unlocks David David is in rare form

whatever Shirley is on the show Oh Shirley The dog is off the leaf You've only been on two episodes It's crazy I'm nervous being here I feel like the last time I was here I don't know

I like caused a ruckus Banya That's people want the What was the ruckus? What was the ruckus? I remember that's a famous episode that got fucked up in the audio boom days. That's the ruckus. Wait, what episode? Ponyo. I mean, it was mostly fun, but it was one of those episodes where chunks of it got messed with. Oh, I don't remember that. It's like, Mad Max, Panyo, public enemies of the big three I remember. Yes. Where like after the fact you were like the system overloaded. Jeez, Ben, you turn 40 and you forget. Well, I think there's a reason

why I've blocked them out. And I think it's because it became an actual nightmare. Right. That year, which is like sort of the last year at Audio Boom Studios, it started to really be a problem. Right. Because then we had our Mad Max episode that got all fucking out. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, those. And then this, which was not my fault. Yeah. 20. I wasn't accusing you. You were pointing at me this entire time. There was like, your honor, he's fine. 2020. Something went on there. That was also. Called the wild came out. David just David just saluted Never saw that one Never never checked

I know Ben saw it I know Ben saw it I remember us ruefully In the pandemic being like Can you believe we didn't We bring it up all the time To go see in a theater We're here in our fucking bedrooms

Locked up in June 2020 And we could have been seen Call the Wall With a big bucket of popcorn Surrounded by Rowdy Strangers So this is your Eddington Griffith So Shirley you were on our sense

Insensibility episode, of course, in which Ben was baffled by the concept of a deathbed, which I've never forgot. What happened to that guy? You see him dying at the beginning of the movie and they never follow up. One of the greatest Ben questions of all time asked in earnest. And I think you even said that guy's on his deathbed and then they never tell you what happened to him. Did he make it? Well, you said that in the first like two minutes, I think. Yeah. I needed to get clarity. Right. It was, it's important. And it was framed as I was so confused by this movie. And we're like, list the things that confused you And that was top of the list You're on a Panyo episode

A movie that back then I had seen many times Now I have seen such a staggering amount of times That I know like every single You've broken records As much as you brush your teeth Yeah Wait And then we cannot forget Shirley

His hygiene is not great Oh boy You cannot forget Shirley That you did appear on our Wendell and Wilde To recount Oh yes, the dark day evening, when I saw you as like, as like one of the infected from 21 days later. Yeah.

He was infected with the age five. I was like, I was like, you're so pale. Like, I was like hammering like a panel. He was on all fours eating worms out of the ground. And then we just went to some random room in like the middle of the building. We went to, they had like lounges upstairs and lounges downstairs. And we just like sat there looking at each other in our pajamas just like. What time is it?

I tried to sleep and you just kind of continue to go. I just, like, stared into space. My daughter woke me up at 3 a.m. a couple days ago. Nice work if you can get it. Seriously. And I go up there and I'm like, what is it? You know, it's going to, you know, because you're like, okay, you had a bad dream. And she was just like, it's dark outside.

And I was like, it's the middle of the night. That's what happens. How funny would it be if your daughter, you find her awake at 3 o'clock in the morning and she's just tapping a security panel, bleary eye. And you're like, fuck, she really is my child. I want to be clear. It was the tapping of the security panel while also trying to message the Airbnb hosts. Well, also, I don't know how you did this.

Both hands rubbing against each other in fright. But it was the fire alarm was going off in the building. Yes. Which was not our doing. And then I compounded it by activating the inner room security alarm on top of the fire alarm. I mean, it's funny thinking back, right? funny not right not right it's funny it's funny it's funny i just remember that i couldn't see and this is a true tragedy darren aronovsky's the whale oh at tiff because i was so fucking tired yeah because of that

so i had to see it later uh and i did get to see it though so don't worry yeah while you're at tiff though the only thing you knew about it was that one image that one that david for the listener is doing a perfect impression of the picture and now can i can i make a I like that? Can I make requests? Yeah. Can you do Leo at the Flowers Moon table? Right, right. He's also... Isn't he looking up? Oh, is he looking up? And the hands more forward. It was a nut... Let's re-take that. Aren't the hands more forward on the table? You're correct. You're referring to, again, this is somewhat deep lore for our listeners. You might not know. One publicity still. Right. Two movies that had, for what felt like a year, only one publicity still. Now, the Killers of the Flower Moon one was fine. It was Leo and Lily Gladstone sitting at a table. It was a little boring, but there was nothing. that odd about it. The whale one, of course, was just

you know, Brendan Frazier in this makeup going like Big old head. And you're just, and like, it's called the whale. And at a certain point you're like, this is starting to feel insulting. It was just that one image and then they revealed the poster and the poster was that image with text over it. That was the funniest heightened to just be like, and the poster is once again, just the look. Just the look. Okay, so let's get the

Flowers of the Killer Moon face one more time. And also, it's called Killers the Flower Moon. But that's actually change it to Flowers of the Killer Moon. Do you say cut on yourself? That's the horror version. That's the lived I repeat. And then, of course, there's my favorite movie, Flowers of the Lazy Old Moon. Oh.

Here's a conversation I want to pin that we're going to have. Which of these fake movies looks the best. Would you most want to watch? All right. So let's talk about what. I said pin for later, but I guess we're doing it now. David's trying to skirt the impression. What's the impression I have to do?

Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, let me get the image. Okay. I want to, I want to really study it. You know, I want to, like, bring in my, like, sense memory. Okay, yeah. It's this. Yeah. Oh, the hands are under the table?

They're under the table. And then I'll do, I'm going to do Lily Gladstone now. Yeah, okay. Good. Right, and she's kind of bummed. She's got a shawl over. David is that kind of, yeah, like, cradled himself. She looks cold and he looks sweaty.

The thing is, and then I saw that movie really early. Yeah. Because of can. Yeah. And it was the Leo pointing at the screen meme when they're sitting at the fucking table, you're like, yes, yes, here they are. Our buddy Saddam, past and future guest, wrote a really good

piece about how interesting that shot is in the context of the movie. I mean, that scene in the movie is so good. Right, and it's so different than what as a, like, fucking online-pilled movie obsessive you would imagine the scene was after 18 months of seeing it? The scene in the whale, too, where he goes like this. Yeah. It was also so good. Again, again, again, again. 80% of the movie.

The look. Again. Again. One more. You know what movie blows goats? The whale. The whale is one of those movies that like my children will come to me decades from now being like, is this fake? This one awards? Like people melted gold and put them in casts.

It is an anecdote I've repeated so many times. But my younger sister Romley, who was born in 1998, loved this anecdote. Watch American Beauty for the first time like five years ago in the pandemic and was like, can you explain to? me how this happened was like i'm i'm just actually befuddled explain to me what i was too young to understand this came out and was a box office sensation and swept the oscars in one of the most iconic years of all time in american cinema what do you mean american beauty it's got a great pitch so there's this pedophile and what are you talking about griffin i mean like all she needs to do is just watch a plastic bag yes drifting in the wind it is so funny they're like what's the a

plot it's like he wants to fuck a high school like Jesus okay what's the B plot these teens get really into a plastic bag are you fucking kidding me this is the B plot this guy wants to fuck his daughter's friend oh so that's the conflict no he gets what he wants no he's that's the goal that's the quest he's miserable that he has a career in a nice

house I have no notes I don't know what you're laughing about he gets shot at the end and the audience cheers no they cried they're sad about it yeah he won't the death of it hero.

Mr. Berman said what we were all afraid to say. Best picture, best picture. It's also so weird. People were yelling. He like jacks off to fucking roses. What a weird guy. It's so weird.

What a weird movie. Doesn't he say, does he say? That movie has so much masturbation in it. Does he say bashing the bishop or choking something? He has the whole bit where he says like five like euphemisms. When a net Benning walks in on him in the I was doing this, doing that, you know, I can't remember what they were, but yeah, saying hi to my father.

Spanking the monkey. It's sort of like an Austin Powers moment. Yeah, it is. Right? He's like, oh, well, and of course, he would later become Dr. Evil in many ways. Hail Caesar. You ever see the movie in beauty? Yes, I have.

I feel like we're bumming people out. We keep going down. Lazy old moon. Okay, yes, let's get back to this. When I'm on the lazy old moon sequence, I am like, it would be really fun. to watch this whole movie. It's hardest to imagine the scenes around it where I'm like, this could go anywhere.

I don't... What do you think happens? I don't know, because it feels like... He lassoes the moon. I hope so. I hope he lassoes the moon. Oh, my God. I hope he lassoes that damn moon.

So I opened the, you know, the dossier, which we can start looking at for Hale Cs, written by J.J. Bursh. And then I got a chat notification within the dossier from J.J. Burr saying how are you liking to Shirley from me? Tell him he's fired.

Tell him that Shirley has fired. Hey, Jage. Miss you, Jage. What's the name of the No Dames movie? Uh, uh... Do they, do they... It's the homoeroticism. Because we have Hail Caesar, the Tell the Christ.

Uh-huh, uh-huh. We have, uh... Right. I guess the main ones are Lazy Old Moon, the no dames film, the new Lawrence Lawrence film that Hobie's doing. I'm trying to find the names of all of the... And then the aquatic... Merely We Dance is one of them.

I think Merely We Dance is the Tatum? Yeah. I'd assume. Right, which is that sort of an anchors-away or on the town type movie. Obviously, Hale Caesar is sort of like a Ben-Hur movie. To me, that is the most transcendent sequence in the movie. Which is... No, Dames.

James is like every time I watch that is like Nirvana for me when we will talk about it and that it smells like teen spirit but I do I am most interested in the idea of watching 90 minutes of lazy old moon whereas watching the no dame

sequence I'm like that's a full meal yeah and I think it is that I want to know like how the relationships evolve in lazy old moon and what I like the old guy too a portly restaurant tour yeah it's always good like here's okay

Going off of what you're saying, Shirley, I could imagine the plot of that movie being a crazy old guy. Lazy old moon, crazy old guy. Right. Tells Hobie, this dang moon keeps alluding me. Don't you have a good last row? You have to bring the moon back to me. And Hobie's character has to figure out how to satisfy his demand, right? And then in the process, like, fucking romance is his daughter or whatever.

So, okay, the movies are Hail Caesar, a Tale of the Christ, which has obviously been her co-vattis, those kind of movies. Lazy Old Moon, a classical, what variety used to call an O-Tuner, I think, which is, like, basically, like, a cowboy film with music, exactly. Sort of a Roy Rogers type movie. Jonas Daughter is the name of the mermaid, Busby Berkeley type movie. The Whale. Did someone say The Whale? Do the look. I think there's literally a movie called Million Dollar Mermaid.

That's one of those, Buzzley Berkeley. Oh, yeah. obviously on the town anchors away is sort of being done as that movie doesn't have a title so no dames i think is the best we'll make that the functional merely we dance is the kind of lubitchi you know society comedy right um it's complicated pretty funny there there that moment uh is another moment in this film that almost tears me up oh like the the the final hammer of that joke dropping an hour later, basically, or 45 minutes. It's funny, and I love how they, yes, the patience and also the sort of circuitous way they resolve that storyline, but also I'm like, I actually find it kind of emotionally profound. Like, I think that is not to get ahead of things, but like, especially that that scene is

Francis McDormant, right, wife of one Cohen brother, playing an editor, the position that the other Cohen wife occupies, right? These two ultimate wife guys who love making movies with their wives, right? And love movies. And you have this scene where, like, she is playing an editor, showing this footage.

And in it, I think they are quietly capturing the magic of like, you have seen this fucking disastrous day of shooting where you're like, how is anything good going to come out of this, right? And they can't get this fucking line out. And even before the hammer blow of,

of, oh, they cracked it. They figured out what his movie star persona is. You need to adjust it around him, but if you change the line, he'll nail that delivery so fucking hard

and it will convey something greater than what was the original plan, the sort of like living text of like, what they say, that like movies get written three times, right?

They're written on paper, they're written on the shoot and that's written in the edit. And that's like a thing that I think the Cohen's like love that feels like magical about movies. But also in the assembly,

she's showing him Before you get to that line, you see two shots of him closing the door and him walking from the door to the couch that when you see them play out earlier in the movie, you're like, this is horrendous. His walk is so awkward. He's doing this cowboy walk. He's like clearly self-conscious about how big the door was and he looks behind him. And in that moment, it's like these are laughing films of like, this guy can't pull this off. And in the way that they edit it, it suddenly has a new context. where him looking back at the door behind him

is because they placed the insert shot of the briefcase in the hallway before it. And his awkward walk when framed from like shoulders up feels like nervousness rather than this guy doesn't know how to walk. And like that magic of it and he doesn't like fucking

Brolin doesn't overplay it. He doesn't have some tears in his eyes moment. He doesn't go, that's the magic of the movies. But I do see on his face, he's like, yeah, these things, you give him time and they work out. I was right, you know? It's true. And then she nearly chokes to death.

Well, no, it happens right before. That's the thing. It's, he saves her from death, and then he sees it's complicated. It's a miracle moment. Well, so much of the magic that has worked in this movie is sort of serendipitous. It's not Eddie. Yeah. Eddie is often kind of like, oh, I figured itself out.

You know, sort of burnt after reading adjacent in a way. That fucking moment at the table to with Allison Pill where he's like, oh, that problem's solved itself. Right, right, exactly. And I find that moment very moving. And it ties the whole film together for me, right? It's like, it's like at home, at work. He has all these things that he needs to take care of or he thinks he needs to take care

of. But it's kind of like the magic of the movies that you're talking about also kind of bleeds into just the magic of working in the movies. Yes. And it all, it all works itself out. It does. But does it without someone caring about it? that's surely that's the X factor right like the the moral conflict at the center of this movie at least

within the Eddie Manix character in his arc right is the like is this job killing me am i like a babysitting lunatic children all day and like putting out insane fires for something that feels frivolous right at a time where like Hollywood is mostly into like distraction entertainment escapist entertainment like fair because people need to like forget their troubles you know got you guys this character poster david pin in that we're going to talk about that for i do not exaggerate 45 minutes pin in that that's also the magic of the movies david's doing the whale again it really doesn't work for a podcast i know but it's so funny when he does it and by the way guys we're not going to video so

wouldn't be as funny on video it wouldn't i agree it's it's the theater of the mind Eddie Manix is a real guy constantly but but also semi-fictionalized version of a real guy Yeah this movie is not attempting to represent the real Eddie Manix at all But they're using the name of a guy who was this type of guy Who's played by Bob Hoskins in Hollywood Lane That's right Hollywoodland

I once had a well okay I had a birthday party at a Lowe's theater And we watched Hollywoodland And I well there was nothing coming out that weekend How were Lowe's theaters? Yeah. When was that? My memory.

It was very young, yes. We're not very young. But my memory is that all Lowe's theaters in New York were, became AMCs. Yes, they did. Around that time. This one did. This was in New Brunswick, New Jersey. And I turned to look at my friends.

Yeah. And four of them had fallen asleep. Yeah. Four out of four? You're four friends. I dare you. Wait, so 2006, Shirley, I'm going to say you were, what, 17? How old?

18? 15. 15, Jesus, you're a young person. Although, it's not like now, and Shirley's having to deal with this now at the Atlantic. Where I meet people, and I'm like, and they're grown people. Yeah. Fully grown. This is the worst.

And then I'm like, wait, when were you born? And they're like, you know, well, I'm this. Or they say their age. And I'm like, were you born after 9-11? And they're like, no, no, no. I was born two months before 9-11. And I'm like, I remember the first time,

I remember the first time I had a conversation with a child who had been born after 9-11. And I had the thought of, oh, it's crazy that children born after 9-11 can now string together sentences. You should be my sister. Talking to an 8-year-old. And I was like, it's crazy that someone born after 9-11 can be old enough to walk on their own two feet without support. And now, yes, they.

They're taking over our workforce. They have their own jobs. They have their own opinions. I'm sorry. We're the last generation allowed to have opinions, right? It's disgusting. They should, right, exactly. They should be silent.

They're trying to engage in the marketplace of IT. Exit! They have a role. I cannot believe you saw, wait, so you said 15? Uh-huh. You saw Hollywood land. There was nothing else. David, this is why Shirley's friends with us.

I'm telling you. This is why Shirley is on our show. I'm telling you. This is some real blankie-coated shit. to be like high school Hollywoodland birthday party i was like we're gonna go see Hollywood land do you like you when Adrian Brody's tired yes oh he's so tired in that movie because it's like that the jacket Cadillac records brothers bloom like this run of like well he's still an Oscar winner where he has to play a tired guy but don't you love Ben Affleck trying to be Superman trying to do like I have never seen Hollywoodland is it any good I remember Affleck was the one people talked I remember not liking Affleck's performance in it. Cool. Liking everyone else in it, thinking the movie was overall kind of a snooze.

Not bad, but just... You were one of my friends who fell asleep. A little... I might have taken a quick nap in the middle of it. Now, Cheryl, your birthday's early September. I know this because we often celebrate your birthday at Tiff. Yes, we do. So I'm looking at movies you could have seen then.

Just doing a little sort of micro box office game. You could have gone to see The Covenant. You think I want to see the Covenant on my... Isn't that like Hot Boys doing magic or something? Yeah, Stephen Straight. Sure. Well, are you saying that Ben Affleck's not a hot boy? Yeah.

Sebastian Stan, you could have gotten on this stand train early. No, I know. That's a, I missed that train. That was one of the poutiest movies of 2006. That was, but that's when the Sebastian Stan train was like a guy operating a hand. Right? It's like, so now the Sebastian Stan train. It was the blind push cart man from my brother.

Exactly. It's like a sleek bullet train that everyone's like, get me on that train. I mean, Fantasy put it so well, beyond just like him having these two movies last year that were such good showcases for actual acting. He was like, Sebastian Stan shows up in Thunderbolt, and you're like, is this guy James Dean now? Griffin. He's played Bucky, and suddenly I'm like, this dude is fucking liquid gold.

Exactly how I felt watching Thunderbolts. And he's in the first chunk where he's playing sad congressman, Bucky. And I'm like, that is kind of funny, but like, whatever. And then he rides in on a motorcycle looking like the Terminator. He finally has his own theme. Yeah. His only theme before then in all his movies is just like a scream because. Because he's the winter soldier, right?

I was like, did Sebastian Stan become? Yeah. Really nice burn on that mic. Did Sebastian Stan become like, I'm excited. The CEO of Minute Maid, because this guy has all the fucking juice. He really wanted to get that out.

I just could not believe that like my blood pressure was going up at the site of Sebastian Stan. Yes. After years of me being like, yeah, C plus B minus on that guy. See, then you missed the train. I got on the train with Gossip Girl. But then did you ever. I never get off the train? Did I?

No, I didn't get off the train. I never got off the train. I was on the train during once upon a time. I'm so sorry. I was talking to past and feature guest, John Gapris, friend of the show, who I believe has a February birthday or January birthday. I'm a February birthday, but September is similar. Or in our childhoods, it was like, you are guaranteed.

Slim Pickens. If you are a movie kid and your default is, can we do a movie birthday, you're going to go see some bullshit. And there was one year, I'm sure I've said this on the show, but despite being a February kid, in 2002, I was like, I'm going to make my birthday Spider-Man. And people were like, that's May. And I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna. Right. It's, you're like the Queen of England where you're like, I have two birthdays now. Right. Yeah. I'm just saving my birthday party until Spider-Man comes up.

I rule time. You could have seen the third weekend of the inspirational football drama Invincible. Mm-hmm. Not a bad movie, saw it on a plane. Oh, no. I'm so sad. I missed Invincible. Directed by Erickson Core? Yeah. You never forget a name like Erickson. You never do. He's He sounds like a sort of thing you have to buy for your car. Yes. You're going to need an Erickson core. Your battery is low, you know, is burning out. I mean, you're not going to find a film that I'm going to be like, yeah.

Oh, wait, I saw Crank. So you'd already seen it. You know, it came out the way before. I had seen Crank with my dad. The illusionist with a little orange tree. Yes. I had seen, I had seen all other options. Right.

I don't know. I thought I was getting on a horse that would run far. I don't know why. You know what I mean? You were like. quiet kind of like Affleck back. My friends will thank me when

Affleck is accepting an Academy Award seven months from now. They will be so sad that they're missing 15 minutes of this. No, because it's 2006. It's not, it's that he makes Gone Baby Gone the next year and everyone's kind of like, okay, Affleck back. Yes, but I'm saying,

the buzz in the summer. Oh, was maybe he'll get a sneak an Oscar. I said Shirley's logic was, right. My friends will judge me now, but when he wins the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor, they'll be like Shirley. They're going to be like, she knows her.

Her shit. So I'm going to open the dossier. Instead, I had to apologize to them. Yeah. I think all of us in this room, Ben, probably not. But the rest of us have had that screening. We dragged our friends to where afterwards you had to actively be like, I'm sorry that I made you come to this. For me, it was Alexander.

Like, I got a lot of people ready. You know, like, and they were ready to feed me to a mob after that. Like, they, like, throwing me to the lines. I had already seen Hulk and I told all my middle school. friends, you don't understand movie of the summer. I'm going again. We all got to go. Right. And I truly, I, I cannot believe I made it out of that night alive. They were all, they were all just as angry. What's the titular character? What the fuck are you talking about was the energy?

David. Yes. This episode is brought to you by Mooby. The Global Film Company, the Champions Great Cinema, from iconic directors to emerging autours, there is always something new to discover, and with Mooby, each and every film is hand-selected so you can explore the best of cinema, streaming anytime, anywhere. But also, David... No, that's it. That done good recommendation of Mooby. No.

What? Also projected upon the silver screen. Yes, movie releases films, too. And physical movie theater. And they've got a humdinger called Die, My Love. It's the new picture from Lynn Ramsey. Someone I have long maintained is one of our finest living film makers. That is true.

genius, in my opinion. It is coming to U.S. theaters on November 7th. It is a visceral and uncompromising portrait of a woman engulfed by love and madness. Who's playing that woman, David? Jennifer Lawrence. Have you heard of her? This film is excellent. You've seen it.

I sure have. I am dying to see it. Dying my love to see it. Yes, it starts with Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson, two of our very exciting stars. Mystique and Batman themselves. They are playing a couple who, moves out to the woods to Montana to raise their kid after they have a kid and feel normal.

Everything goes regular for them in their brains when they do this. This is her first film since you were never really here. One of my favorite movies of the last decade. Yes, it was a can. It's very, very intense, very incredible performance from Jennifer Lawrence, especially, in my opinion. Awesome soundtrack that I think Ben's going to dig. I think Lynn Ramsey makes movies differently than anyone else on the planet.

I feel like she is uniquely skilled at a kind of method she is created for depicting the inner life through sound and image. Her movies thrill me. And I will say if you're a listener of this podcast, it might be beneficial to go see Die My Love sooner rather than later. Winky Winky Wynke My Love is now in theaters. Go see it. You can visit mooby.com slash die my love for showtimes and tickets. And to stream great films at home, you can try Mooby free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash blank check. That's Mubi.com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

In 1998, I'm opening a cut dossier. Ethan Cohen said... I'm going to finish my name manx point. later. I'm just pinning that. Oh, fair enough. I'm sorry. I just want the listener. No, I haven't forgotten. Told the Los Angeles Times that Inesbrother

had done some writing assignments before adapting other people's scripts on an unattributed basis. The Coens say we don't really want to put our names on stuff like that because we're not really in control of it. And I feel like movie fans know that. That occasionally the Coens have done a pass on a movie movie you liked that they didn't get any credit.

PTA. Right. Much like PTA. Where now there's more stuff he gets credit for, but I think there's a lot of shit where people are like, PTA, can you spend a week in and just make this dialogue more interesting? Yeah. In the mid-late, early to mid-2010s, they start to get some credit for some of these. So you got Gambit, of course, which was eventually released, sort of.

Yeah. You have the Angelina Jolie film Unbroken, which they have a credit on. Uh-huh. A bridge of spies, of course. Bridge of Spies, which supposedly they really just did the sort of chunk in the middle. Yes. Where he's in Berlin. Yeah. Right.

Berlin, Jesus, yes, yes. And Unbroken, they came aboard late after Jolie was attached to Angelina Jolie directed that movie, and she basically was like, I want you guys to come aboard, I want the film to have structure and wit and playfulness between the men, you know, which is very interesting that, like, I don't think that movie's very good, but that Jolie, who I think is a more talented filmmaker than some credit her for, had the sort of like... knowledge of like here's the like here's that what needs strengthening in the movie and weirdly i think the cohen brothers will work i'm not hiring you to do the cohen brothers thing i'm recognizing that

you are multi-skilled and you're good technicians and i want you to just help crack this of course lady killers and tolerable cruelty both start out as assignment jobs for them that they weren't going to direct and then become we've when we've talked about those movies already uh brad and and she mentions that she knew them partly because brad pitt had done burn after reading when she was she was with him when that happened and she was with notes and that marriage ended perfectly. And she was with Billy Bob Thornton. It was unbroken, yes.

People forget she was with Billy Bob Thornton when he did man who wasn't there. So she had experienced the Cohen's cross as twice. I don't want to be crass. But I'm just quickly imagining a life in which you wake up every morning next to Angelina Jolie. Sure. You go to set and film the man who wasn't there. Right. You have to play Cuck of the Year.

And then you wrap production for the day and you go home and you have sex with Angelina Jolie. I'm sure he could not It would have broken his character into a billion pieces I think I think Billy Bob's got the range Yeah he does I think that's what makes Billy Bob Billy Bob is that he could do that That he he would wrap for the day

Take off his toupee Put his vile blood necklace back on Now around when they're I go to Pound Town I don't want a picture No picture it picture it Around the time that they're working in Hail Caesar These are certain things

That's why J.J. I think is giving us this color. This is the kind of stuff they're working on around Hell, Caesar. And this is a nice kind of swan song for J.J. Yeah, exactly. They claimed that they were working on a sort of Sword and Sandals movie. I always wondered if that was a joke or not, because obviously this movie has a sort of parody of a Sword and Sandals movie in it. Sure.

They also claimed they were working on a musical where the main character was going to be an opera singer. Never has been realized. Another thing that happened around this time is that suburb... Burvicon, which is a script that they had written back in 1986, essentially, starts to spool up with George Clooney in the director's chair. And George Clooney added a little twist to it. Poop.

Hung shoe, hong shoe. A movie I still never seen. You never seen Suburbancon? It is insane. Yeah. Because it is half a Coen Brothers script and half a George Clooney script. Yeah. And the Coen Brothers script is like, you're like, yeah, this is like a Coen Brothers movie.

It's like, you know, dumb gangsters. Then the other half is this, like, really. somber tale about like integration and like it's so weird such a weird it is it is just funny that i feel like right this era of their names actually getting credited on these things they wrote kept having this juice of like holy shit the cohen brothers wrote unbroken is this going to win best picture and then people saw it and they were like oh they clearly were like skilled hired hands on this this is not have cohen brothers identity they screwed some nuts right and then like suburbicon and gambit people were like oh i guess these scripts only work if they direct them

themselves. And like Bridge of Spies, which we love, as you said, it's like they were kind of pinchheaders. Suburicon, I remember being one of those. When I was still at EW, I don't know if this is sharing trade secrets, maybe it is, but it's like when we would do the fall movie preview, summer movie preview, whatever, insert season here movie preview, some people would see some of the films in advance. And I remember this one, because of the pedigree, it had a little bit more room on the page. And then as the bus, as the bus died down, it got smaller and smaller. And I remember it was a tiny little piece of that preview. Just a little circle.

It was one of those movies where you were looking at the fall preview and you were like, I don't know if this is going to win best picture, but I am guaranteed to have a good time. You're like Clooney's directing a Cohen script with Julian Moore, Matt Damon, and Oscar Isaac. I will have a blast and everyone came back and was just like, huh, weirdly anti-fun. The opposite of interesting. So back when George Clooney first works with the Cohen, brother. In a little movie called, Oh, Brother, we're art, though.

They sort of fall in love. They're like, this guy is so good at playing idiots. We love idiots. They match really well with him. We have a movie star who unlocks financing immediately. Also true. And they, at that point, apparently, tossed off an idea to him that's kind of like, what if, like, a matinee film idol who's making, like, a Ben Hur type movie gets kidnapped?

Sure. That was sort of the intent. That was, like, the entirety of the pitch. There was also, at some point, they were teasing, because they do intolerable cruelty, which once again, like, kind of comes together weirdly sideways, and they plug Clooney into it. And they're like, now that we've done two, we need to complete our Idiot Trilogy. And they kept saying the third movie in the Idiot Trilogy will be Hail Caesar. They had the title.

They did. They always had that title. People would push them on it. They were like, it's basically a one-sentence idea. There's no script. We haven't really cracked it, but we like the idea. And the other thing that would always get thrown out was, like, he's in a traveling company doing a production of Julius Caesar. That is another idea that they definitely.

explained as like maybe that's what Hale Caesar is. I feel like like you said they were sort of like Hale Caesar set in past acting involved cluny stupid him playing old-timey dumb star in some kind of period piece. Apparently another

thing they pitched at that time was called Adolf Terry Hitler an alternate universe comedy in which Hitler's parents emigrated to L.A. in the 1900s and their son grows up to be a Hollywood big shot in the eventual manager of a Hitler agency. There's shit like that I wonder if they're trolling us

or if on their cloud drive there is the greatest group or they wrote 30 pages and they were like, what are we doing? And then those 30 pages are very funny. No, no, no, guys, I think they were just, you know, their brothers playing Madlips. Adolf Terry Hitler. I think they were having a great little sleepover.

They start generating. Right. And they would always tell George that his character would quote be a gas baggy fathead and for some reason that really appealed to him. Ethan gas baggy fathead is George's forte So Hail Caesar would come up a lot

But of course What they call the Numb skull trilogy You know they end up making intolerable cruelty And then they do burn after reading And people are like I guess Hail Caesar was never a thing After right after burn after reading George said like Have I played my last idiot for you guys

You know it's sort of like You know but it was always on IMDB Clooney notes this Yeah because I guess they talked about it enough There was literally just kind of like Hail Caesar Joel Cohen Ethan Cohen, George Clooney, no plot, no nothing. Yeah.

And so finally, they sit down to write the thing. Because they're like, everyone's going to get too old anyway. And they describe it about the movie business and life and religion and faith, faith in the movie business. And they eventually decided to make Eddie Mannix, the main character. And George is, like, an important character. But he's like, Joe Chosh Boland is the lead of the movie. Yes. It is funny how this film, with its All-Star cast,

just settled its billing order by alphabetical, and yet that alphabetical ends up being... Kloon, Kloon, Klooney, Aaron Reich. I mean, it's serendipity outside of the movie and in the movie, right? Totally, but it's like the three guys are in the right positions. Yeah. And you're right, you're right. I just always... It's Kismet.

So, you know, the characters they create, Scully Johansson's playing kind of Master William. He said it all near Eric is like Tim Holt. Channing Tatum is like gay or Gene Kelly. Clooney is kind of like a Robert.

Gay communist Gene Kelly. Right. Robert Taylor. One of the coolest movie star moves for Channing Tatum at this moment of so much heat to be like I'm doing deep supporting for the Coens.

It is only three scenes, but one of those scenes is going to require months of choreography and I'm playing a gay communist. He's just like king shit I want to explore stuff I'm not like trying to preserve a like

safe career. I mean the months of training because he wasn't a tap dancer right? Right. Like and tap like so he he does hip hop dancing per terminology. He was step up. But yeah tap I mean Stick it to no yeah step up Stick it is gymnastics. Yeah you don't you don't

stick it in dancing. Yeah you're right Stick it's messy paragraph and his and we love Five star masterpiece. Good movie. Yeah. Yes and we love gymnastics. We do. Um, yeah, right. So he, he spent months training in tap. And tap is like, I mean, I don't, I, I'm not a dancer. I take, like, adult ballet classes. I know. I'm in Hobby City over here. Okay, okay. And it's just kind of like tap is sort of impossible to get within a couple months, but look at this guy, he did it. Here's the thing, right? Like tap is like, the skill of tap is relatively invisible. We do not have to go down this tangent, but like tap is one of those, um, you know, forms where it's kind of like, you can't really tell what the skill is when you're watching tap dancing. You hear the rhythms and things like that. But it's just like, it just doesn't translate well as like a really skillful piece of, I don't know, like a form of dancing.

Well, the magic trick is that it, yeah, especially I think how it's been historically used in American movies is that it is this kind of like quietly graceful off the cuff. I'm doing nothing sort of like that's the gene telling magic. I'm just soft chewing around. Yeah. Right. And it's like you have to put so much work into getting it perfect and then additional work into doing it without showing any effort. Right. And it's like even beyond him having to learn tap on top of like what we're obviously trained like dance muscles and the right brain for it and all of that.

This sequence is so complicated and just plays out in fucking like elegant wide shots. And he sells it like every second of it. Yeah. Right. And you're just like that guy had to do a ton of fucking work for a really small part. Yeah, I'm like, this is Olympic level where I want to give Channing Tatum a medal. I want to give him so many medals. I believe every second of that choreography because, yes, he trained until he got it right.

But at the same time, it's like there's joy and delight in his face. The whole performance comes together. And that is so hard to do. But this is the second to last good movie he made. Okay, so this is what I want to call out. So this was, he was at this point of like ascension, ascension, ascension. right save for like a Jupiter ascending or two we love those he was on a fucking masterpiece but he was on such a hot run and it was like this is the guy yes

and then he makes this yes in 2016 in 2017 he does Logan lucky which I think he's great in but weirdly flops it doesn't do that well and then he kind of disappears for like six years no Kingsman the Golden Circle which he's bad in and that movie's bad I in 28 no no he's bad I think he's good in it I think that movie is good in it I think that movie is is so insane because they clearly wanted him and he was too busy. And so his character like shows up, then is on ice and then comes back at the end. His character's, his character's name is tequila. You just said he's on ice.

The Pedro. I just want to put an asterisk. He's comedy points. But the Pedro Pascal character is clearly supposed to be him as well. And instead the movie does this like, you've done this rant on this podcast before, which is fine. In 2018, of course, he is Migo. Uh, because Andeia is Michi. Correct.

In small foot. And then, yes, after that, it's basically, like, cameo and free guy is pretty much it until, of course, he returns with dog. Dog. And the last city. Right, which is a big hit. Which is a hit and charming. Yes. And it was like, okay, his channel, like, got it back.

Bullet trains are at the end. And then Magic Mike's Last Dance, which is charming. A movie I love, but really kind of belly flopped and was not well received. And then flying me to the moon, which is, unfortunately, enough good. I respect him for trying that And he is woefully miscast He's quite miscast And then he was like

I'm a dig a rapha He's gambit We do that again What does he say What's the what's the line? We about to make a name for ourselves Whatever his thing is The thing he does

He also He blinked twice Yeah I don't He really shouldn't have I think he's good enough He's totally fine in it I really hated that movie I love him so much

But it is interesting That this felt like Weirdly him doing this movie felt like such a show of power that it's like I'm so above it I can do anything I want I'm not worried about the game and then he kind of like completely

like loses it disappears like waxes and wanes Lost City felt like oh he's back in the pocket doing the thing everyone loves from him and it was such a hit after years of no comedies connecting that it was like okay so he's unstoppable again and then once again

he's stoppable yeah but this I watched this movie and I'm like, this guy's like one of the best raw movie star talents we have. All right, but okay. I'm back to the dossier. Alden Aaron Reich famously discovered when Steven Spielberg saw him on a video

made for a friend's bar mitzvah. Correct. It was a comedy sketch that played at a bat mitzvah. His initial big role is in Tetro, a normal movie directed by Francis Ford Coppola that's normal. Highly normal film. And then he's also in Twixed, another normal one from Coppola. I believe a small part, although I haven't seen that one.

Uh, he's also in beautiful creatures. That was sort of... That's him and Zoe Deutsch being beautiful creatures. No, it's, uh, Alice Engler. Yes, it's, it's Jane Campion's daughter. Um... Yes, beautiful creatures. That was an attempt to find him his...

He's like the lead of them. Twilight. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's the Edward Cullen and I think it's like Southern Gothic fucking witches or some shit. He has a smallish role in Stoker, being a naughty boy. Quite good. He's good, yeah, yeah. Uh, he's in.

Blue Jasmine, I honestly do not remember him with that. He is. I want to say he's Kate Blanchett's son, or he's Alec Baldwin's son? Right. He's got like two scenes. He's very good. And there was this film that the rules didn't apply to that he happens to be in as well, which comes out this same year. Because Spielberg identifies him and marches him into whatever big agency he marched him into and was like, I'm telling you this is like the discovery of a century.

Which, I mean, Spielberg kind of not wrong based on what we've just been talking about. the actual ability of this guy, right? But there was this feeling of like, he's got it. And I think, I knew him a little bit back in the day. And it was very interesting because you could feel the sort of pressure he had on him. Of everyone around him was like, you're the first DiCaprio we found in 20 years. We have to game this out really, really carefully. And so there were like big things that he would pass on or that they would tell him,

pass on because they were like is that the move young decaprio would do right we should position you for otors but then the oter movies are like right tetro and rules and apply which was this really coveted part interesting movies but then they don't totally work and then nobody sees them i guess we need to make you a teen idol so you have the box office cachet to get the better oter movies but then beautiful creatures is the one that doesn't work he like tested for spider man multiple times he tested for harry osborne there was all this sort of like runner up shit and he had sort of gotten into this place where there had been so much energy around him for a decade

but he hadn't actually done that much because everyone around him was so overly cautious about what's the right move and it's better to do less. They put it in Lazy old moon. That's the magic of this movie being like, oh Alden's the Cohen movie

and like it's just suddenly this miracle like fully arrived perfectly packaged, incredible an incredible showcase role to launch a new talent. It's about a guy who does it all. Nails it. So fucking hard.

So charming. Like one of the best movie performances of the decade, in my opinion, I believe I nominated as such. I love his spaghetti lasso. It's astonishing. And people were so fucking rude to him after solo and were like, why the fuck did they hire this guy? Yes, but not his fault. He was hired by different directors to make a different movie.

It doesn't work. But there was this energy of like, why did they pick this fucking rando? And I want to be like, watch hell, Caesar, you, ingrates. It was the wrong move for everyone involved. Did you like him in Fairplay? I never saw Fairplay. I didn't like that. He was sorry, yet.

Did you like him in cocaine? I actually liked him a tremendous amount of cocaine bear. A movie that I think is quite poor. It's fairly rancid and I think he's very good. Did you like him in, I'm seeing. There's the name of a senator here, like Oppenheimer? He's good in that. I do think he's good.

he unfortunately gets saddled with the line. Can I ask a question? What is cocaine bear about? It's about... It's about a... Reaganism, run-em-off. Guys, no, it's about a whale. It's about a way.

Do the look. It's going to hit every time. So, one note on Channing Tatum, he had auditioned for No Country for Old Men for the Josh Brolin part, which is hilarious. He's like, I was far too young, but I was so desperate to just literally

get in front of the Coen brothers then. I just wanted them to see me. You know what I'd love? also in a metal way about the use of Tatum here is that Tatum does feel like he's a bit of a hobby, right? This guy that was sort of discovered without the aspirations of being a movie star and it was just like, well, just dance on camera. And then people were like, you're pretty good on camera.

Can we give you words? And it was like, well, you're not a great actor yet, but there's something here. And then he just like built and built and built and developed and unlocked all these skills. This film was shot in, huh, Los Angeles, crazy. Hollywoodlands. They sometimes call it on Shirley's Birthday. obviously they needed it you know they needed to use these you know

backlots and backlots and all that fun stuff it was universal release although of course capital pictures made it as far yes they used the Warner Brothers lot though mostly and Union Station and things like that which was a real I mean it was made for a difficult shoot because a Yaco Wacko and Dot kept escaping for the water tower and interrupting production Jesus and the good the good feathers showed up yeah that squirrel with the purse yeah what's her name And there were hippos who were a couple or some shit.

It's funny that like... You know when you watch Animaniacs? It's like, ah, it's the squirrel of the purse. I'm going to zone out for five minutes. I hope they do the pitch in soon. The truth is when they have the shot of the Water Tower. That's immediately where my mind goes. Of course.

It is funny. Like, you'll be watching Oppenheimer and it's like the Air Tenet or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, but where's wacko? It is funny that animaniacs and picking the brain were immediately and remained so sticky. And everyone just forgets there were like five other. segments. Yeah. Good feathers was good. Good feathers was good, but I do think it's under sunk. And then what was the name of the squirrel with the purse?

Slappy. That's it. I think. I think you're right. And she had a little kid or some shit? Yeah. Who'd she slap with the purse? She hit someone with the purse. There was a sidekick. Uh, George Clooney. Oh yeah. Yeah. Elderly grouchy cartoon tree squirrel. Yeah. Did she have a little squirrel. Skippy squirrel was the Goddaughter or some shit. Um, so, uh, uh, Cohen said this, this was shot on film, and they were like, this is probably the last movie we're going to shoot on film. Sad. A little sad.

Bruno Del Bonnell shot Inside Lewin Davis, of course. This is them getting back to the Deke. They go back to Mr. D. I think Deacons doesn't do Davis because of Skyfall. Yes. So this was Deacons returning to film, Celluloid, for the first time in a while, and he said, like, we kind of had to. We felt like for the era that we're, you know. And I'll say that.

this. This is one of the only modern movies I can think of that actually somehow captures technicolor feelings. Like three strip, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when you watch old movies and you're like, why does fucking nothing look like this anymore? And eggheads will explain to you the alchemical process that changed. And it's like, but why can't we with our digital technology make anything look this good again? And this movie like has so many different styles it has to emulate, and it emulates all of them better than I feel like most people are able to pull off with

one focus. They are the best. Yes. Re-Tatem's dancing. The Coen's offer him the part, and he's like, I don't sing or tap dance. Like, I want to work with you so bad, but just FYI, I do not sing

or tap dance. It became a six-minute song with tap dancing, and the script apparently it's basically just like they do a song or whatever. So they tried to embrace his physicality, Shirley, that you're mentioning, because he can do things like flips and jumps, right? So they try to put as much of that. And as Gatelli, the tap coach, what's his full name?

Christopher Gateli says, it's a really hard skill, and he'd never tapped before ever. He learned 10 years of tap training in three months. It was the most amazing thing to watch. I'm just kind of like, is this Johann Santana throwing a no-hitter? Where, like, I know nobody gets that reference, but after he did that, he was never the same pitcher ever again. Yeah. And it's not like Channing's gone, but it's almost like, did Channing overload himself learning to tap dance for Hail Caesar? Those six minutes.

It's like, taken him years to recover. Truly, I'm like, it's, I don't know. I don't like, in interviews with him, it doesn't feel like this guy lost it or he's washed. And I do feel like he talked about that, like, when he hit so big, when he had his, like, Magic Mike foul. What was it? There was the one of you where he had three hits in a row. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. $300 million hits in a row and he became the most in-demand guy.

And I think he's like, I worked too much. I like, all the opportunities came in and I couldn't say no to anything and I burnt myself out. And I like, my marriage fell apart and I wasn't seeing my kid. And I was like, I want to take a break. And the break felt like a good mental health, like space that then was maybe also elongated by pandemic and such. But I don't get the sense from him. that like, oh, there's something he lost that he can't get back or there's something broken.

Yeah, I think it's circumstances around him, right? But not circumcision. We don't know. We don't know. I feel like there was a time he talked about burning his penis on set. I can't remember what. The production of the eagle is a profile

that I believe was an Esquire, maybe. I just want to say that the choreographer for that sequence, I'm reading here on the internet, he was also the resident choreographer for the Rosie O'Donnell Scholl. Hell, yes. Do we care? That's important. That's so important.

That's so important. I'm calling con. they need to know this the year is 2012 it's the vow 21 jump street and magic there we go that's his sort of really really insane he has 300 million dollars movies in the first six months of the year and they

that's when they push back GI Joe which was going to be his fourth movie that year to be like we fucked up we got to shoot new footage and they they split him up across the entire movie because he originally died in the opening scene right yeah I just think I think you're it's interesting

what you're saying because you do watch this And even though this is a small performance and a small part of the movie in so many ways, you're also like the skill of what he's showing in the wattage and how hard he is selling just like multiple things at once while also like taking real chances. It was like, has this guy just unlocked like 20 new chambers? Yeah, but here's the thing. He unlocks these chambers. I don't think I don't I don't think the opportunity is unlocked for that for him because they weren't available. Do you know what I mean?

Like it's kind of like, well, it's kind of. the argument that there aren't movie stars and that the real movie stars became superheroes. And then he was lined up to do that. And then that didn't happen. Here's the thing I want to get your opinion on because we've talked about this in the past is like part of the weird where did Channing go thing similar to Swayze where they were both male stars who were disproportionately popular with women and were very comfortable making the genres of film that are often seen as women's films. and is that an audience that perhaps then wants to refresh with the younger guy faster versus like did Chanham ever totally did Chanham did Chanham ever totally win over like dudes That is a good question

Not to be very binary No no I don't think so not really Channing Tatum was never cool Yeah In that in the way you're describing And there is he was fun There is a thing when like guys are too And I think people didn't take him seriously seriously

He doesn't help by being a big old goofball. And then when he did Foxcatcher, when he's like, I'm making serious movies, it's like you're really suited to this role of like kind of a lunkhead. He's amazing in that movie. I think he's great at it. I agree.

I think he's the best performance in that movie. But there's a similar weird David's doing the Fox Catcher. I don't call me Golden Eagle. Nosturaat. My nose is so big. I think there's a similar weird Swayze drop-off where you're just like, how did this guy like have fucking...

Yeah, Swayze is a solid comp. Ghost dirty dancing, point brink. This guy's at the center of the fucking culture and he can do everything. And it's not like he has like three embarrassing flops in a row and it makes sense. You're just like, it just weirdly kind of tapers. I mean, I think it's homophobia a little bit. Wait, Ben, what are going to say? I was going to add, I feel like, though, he has pretty consistently done modeling and fashion.

related work. Channing remains a major celebrity even as his like movie stardom goes through weird waves. There will always be headlines about him because he has one project or another. Like I don't mean film or TV projects. Like he wrote like some picture books

right with his daughter or something. Yeah. So like his personal life is part of his professional life even though I just said that the circumstances outside of his professional life affected him. I know we're hyperfixing and Chang in this episode. That's okay. of what's interesting about this movie is how much it examines like the making of a movie start, right? And how much of it is like timing, circumstance, crafting of a team around you, you know, sort of like context, opportunity, but also these weird X factors that are like, someone connects, right?

They work well on camera and the audience forms a relationship with them. And then you're sort of like, what is this relationship? Yeah. And the like success or failure to identify what is the thing that works about you and how can that be transmuted into other spaces? so that you don't get repetitive. And some people, it's a real struggle to figure out, like, what is the thing I need to keep track of while also not getting stuck in a rut?

He's in Avengers' Dunestay, his gambit. Yeah, thank God. Did he get a chair? Yeah, he got a chair. He got a chair. He got a chair. Oh, sure. Okay, I'm going to do a sidebar for a second.

Right? That's what Gambit says. Brian Reynolds did so many fucking emotional posts of, like, I'm so proud of my friend Channing Tatum. We had similar journeys of wanting so badly to play these Marvel characters and getting stuck in development hell and I knew that feeling

of fighting 10 years to get the Deadpool movie made when no one believed in it and I saw the same thing happen to him but he never actually got to make it and to see us finally find a way to let him play Gambit and the public reacts so strongly

such a win from him and I'm like the whole fucking movie frames Gambit is being like a dumb fucking idiot the bit is like he's boomhauer I know but Gambit kind of is a dumb fucking idiot I mean God bless him I'm like, look, like triumph of like, yeah, he got to wear the costume and people cheered and like, you know, he's funny in it.

He's funny in it. But I'm also like, this clearly isn't what he wanted to do with Gambit. I mean, it's not really the return of Gambit if you don't have Anna Pacquin back as rogue. And we really set that up. I'm just saying I have opinions. But she's in, is she an Avengers Tuesday? No. I don't know.

I don't think so. I didn't watch that. I rely on you to tell me. They'll do an Avengers Day. Roak cut. It needs all chair recaps for me. I turn to you every day and I'm like, David. Chair? Chair? Chair? What's chair?

It would be funny if they restarted that. They'd added one more chair. Just like a random guy. Just like, oh, and the catering's being done by these people. Is that feed still live and just hasn't been updated in two months? So, do you want me to do the chairs? Yeah. You want to read them aloud? It's two minutes long now. Chris Hemsworth.

The worst thing was when it was the live stream during the day and every 30 minutes they had another chair. Anthony Mackey. I thought there... Five hours in my life? I don't know. I think I watched two. chairs and then I don't know like what's your threshold Letitia right I kept going in and out and then I went to see a movie and then I came back and caught up you dipped you dipped with the chairs

I was a small it was a smaller chair the camera I think someone sent like a screenshot to that to a group chat or something I was like well maybe I'll dip back into the chairs but then I thought they wouldn't do anything I was texting one of our group chats and everyone was like I can't believe you're still watching this and I was like just to be clear I I refresh it once every 30 minutes I'm not glued to it I was good to it that's that's true that's I have control. I have power. Also, when you said group chat, I thought group chair.

Joseph Quinn. That's actually really funny. Maybe we should rename the group chair. I don't know what that is. Here's an interesting thing in retrospect. They announced the entire Thunderbolts cast other than Olga Corcorlarenko. A real signpost of the fact that this person's not making it past the first trio. Do you think someone on Olga's team was like watching the whole thing, just hoping they'd do a fake out? It was just so...

I think August team was like, we'll happily take the fourth billing in $1 million for five days of work. David, are you done reading the chairs? Channing Tatum. Okay. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, she shows up does one line.

It's... Robert. Downey, Jr. And there he is sitting in the chair. Heard of him. And her one line is her superimposed, her face superimposed into a stunt woman's body as her mask retreats quickly

and it goes back there. She's like, I'm not here for you. And it's like, she might have done that in her. I mean, I swear to God, I mean, no. How could you be mad at your? I take God's name in vain, yes. Just that where they were like, how many people in this team like fight with sticks?

It's like, yeah, like four. It's like, okay, we got to lose at least one of those guys. Like, Jesus. How many, like, foreign ladies with severe personalities and masks? And she has the skills everybody else has because she can copy? Right. That's the other problem, Taskmaster. We're like, what's taskmaster's power?

He copies other powers. I think they were right to do it. Once again, rogue loses. It's such a funny, like, foggy public hand. cuffing where they like make this big announcement of here's the cast of thunderbolts three years ago and they show the image and they bring them out on stage and at some point they changed the plot and they're like maybe we need to drop one person and they're like fuck we're still contractually obligated to give her fourth billing and one million dollars and we have to put her all over

the marketing to trick people to think she's a proper team member but the most half-hearted effort effort i took the fourth billing as an apology as a sort of like you know that's what happens In Hollywood land, Griff. This is true. But also sometimes there's Marvel. You'll get fourth billing. Like fucking Michael Snowbird getting like fourth billing in multiverse of madness. Sometimes there's contractual.

If you do a sequel, you move up in the billing. And even if we end up giving you a tiny part, we can't knock you down. Yeah, that's kind of like, yeah, when you go from junior varsity to varsity and if you've still stuck around. Yes. What were you varsity? Volleyball. Did you letter? Yes.

I found my varsity jacket. Over the weekend. So? We don't need it. Where'd you play? What do you mean? Front, back, little. I was the barrow.

What's that? That is like a defensive specialist, but not the DS, which is the defensive specialist. You know my wife was a center. I'm the one who wears a different jersey color. Your wife was a center? A setter. Oh. I mean, great role.

That's what most captains are. I thought you were saying a center in basketball. You know what I like to do? Smash. You like to smash. You like to smash. You're a whole. So I've got a question for all the gamers out there.

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These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance. So I'd visit Alienware.com slash deals soon and grab what you can before their biggest sale of the year goes dark. That's HTTP colon backslash, backslash, alienware.com slash deals. David, yes. I'm unlike most people.

Of course. You know why? One of one. Do you know why? There are many reasons, but here's one. What's that? Murray. What?

Murray. That's what I named one of my financial accounts. And see, most people can't name all of their financial accounts, but I've named all of them. One of them's named Murphy. One of them is named Tiffany. one of them is named Rebecca So you guys sometimes Griff will look at the ad copy

And he will just sort of UCB style Kind of be like what can I make with these words This is a damning accusation Sometimes Griffin will look at the ad copy Yeah yeah listen Most people can't name all of their financial accounts Or what they're worth I like right

If you ask me like hey can you just get everything Like financial that you have in front of you I would be like absolutely not I have no way of organizing this And some of us kind of think A to C, and they look at a 401k, and they say that looks like a Murray to me. So you can feel organized and confident in your finances with Monarch, an all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together and one clean interface on your laptop or your phone, Griffin. Because the lack of awareness can lead to money being left on the table. Yes, absolutely.

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Use code check at monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code check. Do it for Murray. Hail Caesar is about Eddie Manix. Sort of about it. It's set in the early 50s in Hollywood. It's about a character named to Eddie.

Eddie Manix. Right, who is, the Cohen said, like, the real Eddie Mannix was like a thug who beat people up and threatened people. Right.

We didn't really want that vibe. Right, exactly. But they do a lot of this, like, Papio Daniel being 90% of the name of a real guy. Sometimes they'll, like, base a character on a person and then be like,

we're still going to name it after them, even though we've made it not actually one to one anymore. He works at Capital Pictures, which, of course, is the same studio from Barton Fink. And he is a fixer, so he deals with scandals

and he massages egos. and he basically just kind of like handles problems for the studio. In an era where because of studio contracts, studios viewed stars as investments. They were property. They were a thing that they had to like manage and build and maintain.

And this weird, it's often when this is talked about it is talked about in a very dark way of people like Eddie Manix would like maybe murder people, you know? And do these things by like force and like covering up the CD side. But the magic of this movie is this quiet Eddie

Manix arc is he is being courted by Lockheed Martin, normal company that's never done anything wrong for a stable job at the dawn of the space age with better hours and the promise that you would get stock options. So even if you quit in a couple years, you'd be set for life. And do you want a more normal life? They're also telling him that they're working on something really big, which happens to be the hydrogen pump. Kind of a scary thing, but they're sort of like, aren't you done doing frivolous like fucking singing cowboy pictures? It's just the most serious thing you could imagine. Babysitting divas. Yeah. Right. We do serious things like bombs.

And the magic of this movie is this very quiet arc that Josh Brolin plays basically through looks and in between words because it is classic Josh Brolin's stoicism with something kind of softer going on inside where this guy is slowly kind of realizing why he cares about this shit, that he is at the end of the day kind of dirty showfolk do his score, even though he is the type A normal businessman version of that. the reason he's here is because he loves this shit and he loves these people for as much as they drive him crazy he would be doing something creative if he could but he's doing this because it's the most creative adjacent thing he can do with his weird powers of like

alpha dog you know negotiation but yeah it's like he ends up what the movie's set over like 24 hours yeah yeah starts at night ends the next night I guess it's 48 hours I don't know whatever A short time frame, but just a kind of whirlwind of problems that he's trying to fix while also being courted for this job.

Right. So here are the problem. So you're going to try and run down the problems. Yeah. George Clooney plays Baird Whitlock, who's this sort of like aging movie star with a hint of lavender. A hint of lavender to him, as they used to say. Yeah. Like the joke being that, like, there would be, like, Robert Taylor is the example they're drafting off of, like, guys where people would be like, he's secretly gay and maybe, like, slept his way to stardom totally scurrilous like no no actual right like evidence for this

but it would become a thing in the 50s yes um because that's what uh on what's the on wings of eagles what on wings of on wings and eagles on like that's what they're referencing one of the best sound effect strokes yes yes but i also i think it could be read on wings as eagles yes it's such a good title on wings as eagles wings obviously ambiguity in it i also think it could i'm quoting the coens when i say the lavender thing. Sure. Yeah. There,

it could be read as this was one strategic like casting couch decision he made to get his foot in the door versus a closeted sexuality. But there was possible hanky-panky

in his past. Seemingly happened. Everyone reacts with the intensity of there's a touch of truth to that. So he gets kidnapped by a bunch of Marxist writers, communist writers.

Yes. Who wish to sort of rearrange his brain in support of their principles. They're deeply radicalized. they've been trying to smuggle commonest ideology into the margins of their studio for higher work, but now they've decided

they need to do something to change the system because... A great bunch of guys. And each of them is more exciting to see them the last. Melamed, Patrick Fishler, Fisher Stevens, Alex Karpowski. I'm I forget. There's a couple other guys. Yeah, it's an incredible group. Greg Baldwin, who's the big guy.

Who's the British? Oh, with the Permapout? Right, yeah, who wrote all the... Who's the British guy who does most of the time? Yeah, who is the British. That guy is wrong. The best guy is the guy who keeps saying, shut up. Yes. Oh, Max Baker.

Max Baker. Yeah, I don't know where they found that guy, but he's so mollifluous. But they basically are trying to radicalize Clooney. They're using him as a hostage to get the cash they want, but also as a bargaining chip to try to change the system because they think if they can win him over while he's being held ransom, that he will be at the forefront of their argument, which is basically them trying to create. some system of profit sharing. It is basically them arguing for, like, residuals and profit participation. Right.

They don't actually have, like, insanely... They're pretty silly. They're fun and silly. They do want to hand a fucking briefcase of cash over to Dolph Lundgren on a Russian submarine. But, like, they don't understand what they're doing with that, basically. They're a study group, guys. Ultimately, this is, like, what I love about it is, like,

for how much they're espousing serious political opinion, the actual means to an end for them is, They would like it if they had nice houses, too. That here they are meeting at Channing Tatum's house, which is like the most beautiful Hollywood home you've ever seen. And all these guys are like, I get paid $200 a week to write scripts. And if one's a hit, I don't get any upside from it.

You know? It is the thing that allowed the destruction of the studio system is it gave actors the ability to build a career without career stability of a guaranteed contract, because if you hit, you'd hit big. And it could cover the times where you weren't working. The next most important character,

I feel like is Alton Aaron Reich, is Hobie Doyle, who is in four movies at once, essentially. He's like going for a movie. He's like shooting a Western, a Cowboy Musical. Or... The Cowboy Musical's rap. He's going to premiere.

That's done. He's done. You're right. So he's shooting, right, the Western and the Society comedy at the same time. I think the big pivot point is, here's a guy who's a B star. He makes programmers in a sort of like...

He's a genotry, whatever. Genre genre, right? And they're going, like, does this kid have the X factor? Could we, like, develop him into something more? He gets slotted into an A movie. And all the pressure is on is, like, this is the test. Which he's not doing very well at. And, of course, he's being directed by Lawrence Lawrence, played by Ray Fines.

It turns out to be the person that Baird Whitlock allegedly had... I like just how tightly There are a lot of hints and references Exactly you're right to how things crossed over In the past or yes And it's almost structured like A mystery novel Right

You know there is like a who done who It's a who done who yeah Yes Well well well There's a touch That's a bit saucy Hammett You know all these like kind of

Gumshue books that they love And like Hartwell noir and whatever Where like the answers kind of happen In the margins You don't have a scene where Humphrey Gargarde, like, explains everything he figured out about the Maltese Falcon. The footnotes are available to you if you want to look for them. Yes.

Yes. But it happens, and part of it's the fast talking, constantly moving Hollywood thing, that, like, stuff's just getting thrown out as, like, collateral. Right. I don't know exactly who Lawrence Lawrence, because, like, people bring up, like, Vincente Monelli or, like, Kukor or whatever. But, like, those guys were American. But it's, like, yeah, those sort of, like, Lubitsch sort of makes sense. It's one of these touch-a-class. You know, guy from Europe who's more

urbane and literate and all that. I don't think any of these directors are one-to-one with anyone. Who says things like mirthless chuckle. Mouthless chuckle. We can use Christian names. This is a movie where you could have given it all five best supporting actor nominations. I think we talked about that that year at the Blankies, 100%.

Yes. So you got Scott Johansson as Deanna Moran, who's a... Elegant Esther Williams' bathing Beauty, who actually is like a heartboy. who's like, hey, fuck you. Brooklyn Tuck Tuff. That's her favorite accent to do, right? She's pretty good at it, and she has been knocked up by somebody.

She thinks she knows the guy. We believe it is the director played by Christopher Lambert. Right. Which I feel like is also this model of like these like kind of severe, brutish, alpha European men who would become like dictator directors of the studio system. The movie's so good at capturing the different types of like who were career. directors at this point in time and like you have your kind of like horsage like champagne aesthetic I can't say this word aesthetic no but esthet esthet yes estite yes but also a guy who's like my name means something I've reputation present versus like these guys who are like I show up

I yell at five people and get it done and I show you a picture of me skiing yeah because I am macho right yes then those are the three main storylines and you have smaller characters like Francis McDonough as an editor who's sort of like a Margaret Booth like lots of famous lady editors Jonah Hill. Tilda Swinton is as twin, identical twin gossip columnists and sort of like the Hedah Hopper, what like, Luella Parsons, like the, yes. What kind of name is Thessaly? The deep bucket of just simple pleasures in this movie every time either of her character says Eddie.

She's really. I'm just, I transcend to a higher plane of existence. Channing Tatum, who really just has the one big scene. And Pell, who is Eddie's wife. Wayne Knight, of course, is that wonderful operative to kidnaps parents. You can never totally trust an extry. You see him and you think suss. And I love that he says, now, mind you, some of them are good.

Jonah Hill. I don't want to paint with a broad brush. Who maybe we want to talk about now as a sort of... Professional person is the thing they say, which is so funny. Yes, technically, he's like a bondsman or whatever. I still feel like an amateur person. What about you guys? Same.

But it's also... It's also... Semi-pro. It's part of the weird machinery of this of like the relationship that the studios have with the gossip columnists, right? Where like sometimes they are basically working them to carry water for them to help sell a fictional narrative

and sometimes they are working overtime to try to squash a potential narrative that they would actually want to crack journalistically. And so all of this machine of maintaining the images and the reputations of these stars and yes, Jonah Hill

is this guy who's like a bail bondsman but also his real utility is they will pay him money to basically slide the crimes or misdiscretions, indiscretions, misdeeds of any major star onto him and he will take the rap or pay the fee or do the time or whatever it is. The fall guy.

And is paid handsomely to be the fall guy so that none of these stories ever stick to these people. Jonah Hill is on screen for 90 seconds. He has one scene. Right. They use every line of dialogue he has in the trailer.

They put him all over the fucking trailer. He's a big star. He was hot stuff at the time, you know, 21 Jump Street era, Jonah Hill. I have often contested that this is the smallest role to receive a designated

character poster. As David turned his laptop around maybe one hour ago. It's low there. It's down low. It's the funniest character poster, just big Jonah Hill head with owl glasses.

Well, it also says, Hill. It says Hill. It's humongous. Yes. And then Hale Caesar is smaller. So you are like, this guy is the stock. Right. If that was the only poster you had seen for this movie. The joke, of course, is that he's, the scheme they work out is that Deanna will have the baby, give him the baby legally. And then she will adopt the baby almost immediately and act like she's doing it out of the goodness of her heart and up because she's the mother of the baby. Right. Because the father of the child is the director of no dance. Candlest. Who has a wife and children back in his home country. Not acceptable. So they can't break that up.

But anyway, she ends up falling in love with Jonah Hill and they get married. Which is very sweet. And it's something that basically, right, happens off screen and offhand comment. They went on like one date and then went immediately to Palm Springs and then got married the next day. She just immediately locks in on this guy. And the scene that's so funny where he's giving like anti-charisma very well.

But he's reassuring. Yes. And he's a, dare I say it, he's a serious man. I think she respects that this guy's got like a, focus. I think this film is such a fascinating counterpart to Barton Fink, which is like about a person who is outside of this bubble, thinks he's better than it. Yes. And will not like lower himself to the trash, you know, it represents or whatever and never like gets anywhere or something is trapped in hell. And this is like inside the bubble, all that he's doing is dealing with problems, right?

It's like this like big complex clockwork machinery and he's just sort of walking around like fixing shit. And problems that are like dark and silly. Yes. Often kind of nasty. and he has to just sort of be, like, pragmatic about everything. But I think it's important to point out that it's not always so in the bubble that it's, like, navel-gazy and insular about itself. It's literally, like, little, like, he has to just, like, he's like, he's like a nothing in. I mean, you have, I mean, you have one, you have the Jonah Hill character,

but I think he exists in a different, like, there's a Venn diagram here, but the, the twin journalists, like, one of the, one of the problems one of them has is that she considers herself an actual entertainment, reporter, trade, versus a gossip columnist, right? And that feels like a little bit of like it's both very inside baseball, but it's also the real world bleeding in with the judgment of the work that they do. Right. And people keep getting them confused.

Yeah. And I think, yeah, exactly. Saying the wrong thing to the wrong person or repeating it twice with an attitude. Yeah. And I think without that piece, you get a film that's way too insular. I agree. But because of this, because of this, it's delightful. I also think this movie has such a love of film history and a sort of recognition of, like,

Not like things used to be better. It's weirdly, this movie is simultaneously more cynical and more romantic and Barton Fink, which is the fascinating juxtaposition. It is largely cynical, but then at the end of the day, it is about the system working. Yes.

And then the one guy, the one real problem that Eddie actually has to solve. Most of the problems sort themselves out. Right. Is Baird returning and being like, I'm a communist now. Like I, we must, and him just being like, no, golden age of holidays.

what works, you know, like, you are not allowed to defy this system. But also in 20 years, it will be dead. 100%, but... Can't fight the future, and the future is on the phone. Eddie is just like, you will do what you do. You're a member of this machine just like me. Right. And Bear's like, okay, and he does it, you know, and George gives the big speech at the end.

Yeah. And it's like, great, that's exactly... That's how this works. And you're watching Clooney magic of like, oh, right. George Clooney is George Clooney. We've had so much fun watching him play, like a fucking idiot behind the eight ball, trying to figure it out. Clooney's so well playing

the awkwardness of trying to be in casual positions wearing that costume. He does so much good business with readjusting these like test plates and shouldn't be in like a lounge chair. I think all of those physical bits

are funny with a sword and all that. But then we get to this final moment where you see him deliver the big monologue and Clooney like a fucking movie star holds the camera and turns it on and nails it and you're like right. Beard Whitlock. Might be a moron to a degree, but also there's a reason he's their top star and here's the magic and then he loses it and the take is blown and everyone's like, yeah, that's what the movies are. We'll just try it again. Yeah. And you feel like you're witnessing a miracle and then the miracle falls apart. Yeah. But he understands the words be a star. Yeah. Right. Anyway. You think.

David, go. The Coens are steeped enough in movie history to know that there is something so hilarious about you watch some old movie that's great. some, you know, classic movie. And you're like, oh, God, this is great. And then you read the behind-the-scenes thing. And it's basically like, yeah, everyone was on fucking speed or gay or a communist or insane or shooting each other. Sleeping with each other. The whole thing was created through like blackmail and coercion and madness. 20 people got murdered in the making of this film.

And you're like, wait, just to create this sort of like delightful confection that I watch today, you know, on TCM? And like, to help you escape, they had to go through hell. It's like the movie Babylon, which is loud and obnoxious. And a movie I like a lot in many ways, but it's like sort of the loudest version of like, don't you realize how insane Hollywood was? This is a much more whimsical. I love Babylon, but I think this movie gets at a lot of the same ideas a lot better. Without having an elephant defecate on cameras.

Yeah, and I believe half the time. I can't remember how long Babylon was, but it's long. A couple of days, at least. No, yes, you're right. And it's like the movie is making. Three hours and nine minutes. Good. Ooh, those nine minutes were necessary.

The people at Paramount's eating razor blades was the test screen. But David, remember that two of those minutes were Avatar. That's so true. So who's laughing now? And T2 was in there too. Yeah. I think that this is a really good, like everything has always been great. Everything's always been terrible movie.

Yeah, exactly. These two things like exist in tandem. But also the sort of like, Elevon's Travels thing, which it makes sort of unspoken, but is like, Eddie Manix is like, I'm like losing sleep and barely seeing my kids and I'm so stressed out and I'm eating this fucking microwave plate of loose meat, you know, as I like try to unwind before I go back to the office for another night shift of dealing with nonsense. Right.

Why am I doing this? And it isn't serious work, like in the name of what. And the opposite is Lockheed Martin will give you like shiny chotchkes and a nice office and everyone there will behave like a proper adult gentleman and you'll bomb people. But, right, the gag is that Lockheed Martin all, right, looks, she's like, we like what you do. We think it would be perfect for creating death that rains hellfire across the earth. And is Eddie not at the lazy old moon premiere? No.

But I feel like in that scene, you get the Sullivan's travels moment, please. Eddie images, please. Not the real Eddie Manix. Yeah. Be careful. That's with the real Eddie Manix is always talking about. threatening me. Never. How much people are laughing at this old coot falling into like a fucking water trough, right? And you're like, this is why you do it. Yeah. Like, this might be the silliest movie ever made. Well, I mean, I want to go back to what you were saying about

when he's with Francis and they're editing that reel and he has that look on his face. That look doesn't say like, I have so much power. I could make this happen. That look instead is like awe and tenderness toward this strip of five seconds of a scene. But you're right. He's not patting himself on the back for like, I always knew it. And he's also not doing this kind of maudlin tears in his eyes. Like, I love Moneyball, but there's the money ball moment where Jonah Hill shows Brad Pitt, normal marriage, the clip of the guy who doesn't know that he's hit a home run. And Pitt has his incredible moment. Right. And it's like there's a version of this that is entirely unspoken because Eddie Minnix is a guy who would never let himself say anything like that. But I also think it's it's very Cohen's like they never. Like they never. push it that far in this. Like, it's like it's, or, or ever. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing, right? Like, we're talking about the juxtapositions and everything working in tandem. And I think it's because there's, they clearly, now we're, we're many years removed from this, from this, and they have their own projects. Yes. They have their own visions. And I think because their visions have

competed, I don't know, without us really knowing it in these films, that's why there's this push and pull and a balance to what we're seeing. I think so too. Now, can I talk about my favorite scene in the movie? I used to do a feature at the Illinois where I summed up my 10 favorite features of the year scenes of the year bring it back it's good feature a lot of work good it's an comma scene what else do you have to do with your time i don't know the problem is that it would always come at the end of the year which is like an incredibly busy time for my editors where they're doing all these other top 10 should and yeah anyway never i would love to bring it back but my favorite scene in hail caesar is the scene where he talks to the religious leaders

yes about the divine presence that they have yet to shoot in the movie uh and it is the incredible Robert Picardo. Picardo's so good. Just fucking raining please. God has a son? What does he have a dog? Is a rabbi who's willing to play? I haven't an opinion.

The correct assumption, of course, that they would get Protestant clergyman played by the great Alan Harvey, an actor I love, a stand-up, you know, very funny guy. Yeah, great on Madman. Incredible on Madman is that guy that fucking hated Don Treper so goddamn much.

The fucking grumpy body. who secretly all he wants to do is draw a fucking comic. About like the duck? That's the shit that makes Mad Men the best TV show of all times. You're like, this guy is killing it as like grumpy boss who doesn't like their unconventional ways. And you're like, I would have no notes about this and I would happily take this all day. And then the shameful secret of this guy is he spends all his extra time trying a little fucking three panel strip about a silly duck that isn't Good. Wait, what is the name? It's so, I'm trying to remember

the, uh, the, the name of the comic book that he draws. Um, but anyway, um, sorry, I'll find it later. Um, and, uh, right, that they wouldn't, you know, they're not getting a name mom in here or like, uh, you know, they're just, it's like a Catholic priest, uh, Greek Orthodox priest and a rabbi. Who's closest? It's like checkbox one of each in the surrounding 10-mile area. And it's this perfect parody. I feel like a, I don't even know if the Cohen's were going for this. Yeah. But of movie making, especially right at that time, like right pre-Trump.

I would argue it kind of presages it. Like, you think about... Yes, exactly. We need to calibrate our message so it appeals to everyone without offending anyone, but it's still going to be about a sensitive topic. Can you help us, please? This movie comes out six months before Ghostbusters answered the call. Like, I just think that's interesting that what you're saying is, like, this is... They were, like, meeting the moment of something circular coming around again that tends to

happen in 20-year rotations of the entertainment industry being like, we have to be important in everything we do. And it's always this kind of hollow diagrammed, yes. And yet in the work in progress frame, it says divine presence to be shot. So good. I mean, and because the scene itself feels like the setup to a joke, right? Right. Like a rabbi and a Protestant Padre of some store. Yes. And a, what's the other one? They're basically, walk into a bar. What I like about it is he's framing it as like, my esteemed man. Right. Hey, I just want to check with you.

I want your blessing and your insight. Yes. But they're squabbling so much that he eventually gets down to the brass tacks of just like, I just need to know that we're not accidentally doing anything offensive. He's acting like he's bringing them in as like esteemed consultants. And really he's just like, are you guys going to complain about any of this shit when the movie comes out? But it's also why this movie holds up where it's just kind of like he brought them in. And now it's like, well, that's enough.

Yes. We did that. Right. They came in. Right. Right. We can say in the marketing, which is part of the machinery, Jeffrey Cantor, I just want to call out, plays Sid Seguelstein, who is the lawyer at Capital Pictures. Right.

Who sort of facilitates the deal with Jonah Hill and Scarlett Johansen. An actor I worked with on Patrick Willem's short film, which will maybe be out by the time of this release, the dinner plan. He is so fucking goodness. Right. And he's like, it's never been done before about the adoption or like, you know, yes, that guy. They're pitching him like, what's a way we can get Johansson's baby? And he and Manix start to like piece together like, is there a way to have her adopt it? We'd have to get a foster.

This and that. And he's reacting with the energy of like an artist being hit with inspiration. He's like, huh, that's good. I like that. And he's not, it's not like a dark energy. It's like all of these people are artists, right? Like Manix loves figuring out how to talk to different people. Right.

And get what he needs out of that. Sort of a joy in it or a skill or whatever. And this weird lawyer who you just imagine has been covering up some of the darkest, most criminal shit, loves being like, oh, what if we did this? It's a puzzle to solve. Yeah. Right. And he underplays it, but it's so fucking good. And this is all in service of making silly movies for us.

And so that the silly movies aren't ruined. They're not tarnished by the real world. Right. Lazy old moon is the most serious movie I've ever seen. Oh, that's so true. So. And actually, I've heard. that they're remaking it

for modern day but it's woke it's well you can't wake up the moon yeah yeah right don't disturb

the moon I don't know this time it's going to be lazy old Venus oh yikes chocks full of women

you know that that's not a it's a mostly gashes planet excuse me Charlie I hate to a big dog you on this

but I actually I read a scientific textbook many years ago That explained to me that men are from Mars and women are from Venus. And that's a fact. And when I say I read the book, I mean, I read the cover. It was exciting.

I only looked at the pictures. The no dame sequence is so triumphant as a performance from Tatum, who we've talked about a lot already in this episode. But the moment that I truly like just lose my mind with joy is when they cut out to the wider shot after this like beautiful kind of elegant sweeping long crane move. And you see that the floor of the set is separated into blocks that roll away, that they had to move away in order for the crane to move in closer and now seamlessly as choreography, not from the performers, but from the crew, they have to roll right back into position as the crane is pulling back. So when it goes back to its original angle, the floor is in shape. And I'm like, that's fucking magic of the movies. And that's the shit when you watch a movie from the 1940s where you're like, they have to figure this out. It is amazing what they figured out for some of this stuff.

Yeah. And they're right. They had this heavy-ass cameras that can only do so many things. They didn't have steady cams back then. Yes. You know. They're athletes and scientists. And you watch this take that feels like perfect.

That feels like a fucking miracle where everyone's just nailing everything. And the crane comes down and Christopher Lambert with his fucking dumb director bullhorn goes like, don't put the bar rag on the guy's head. You're too big of a star. You're bigger than that. Right? It gives him a direction that is not like you fucked anything up. It's sort of in the name of his star persona. I think a correct, he says it in a way that offends the bartender actor, right?

But I think what he's really saying is that's you kind of punching down. Do you think the Coen brothers talked to Christopher Lambert about how he played Raiden in Mortal Kombat? Absolutely. I hope so. It's the only thing they talked about. Or do you think when he was in character, she's like, this reminds me in Mortal Kombat? Yeah. Heather Golden Hirsch

Oh I love her You know what I love a mousy assistant What can you guess Badman No although was she Yeah Because she does have the look

You're right Yeah Let's find out if she was on Batman She's such a good fast talker She never was She was on the show The Class Which is a show I think about

All the time Interesting It ran for one season It was a big CBS show I watched and I forgot That she was on it Right from the creator of friends And the gimmick was that it was eight, 28-year-olds

who had been in the same third grade class 20 years ago and they somehow reunion night. And then they become a regular friend group. Jason Redder, Lizzie Kaplan, Jesse Tizer, Tyler Ferguson, John Burnfield. This is why I wanted to bring it up. It had an insanely stacked cast of guys who were about to happen. Andrea Anders, Lucy Punch. Right.

A couple of the guys, Andrea Anders had already done Joey and was kind of like, you know, in the sitcom mix. Jason Ritter had, you know, he was in the sitcom mix a little bit. But, like, Lizzie Kaplan, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, and then insanely John Bernthal, who never did anything like this again, were all in it. But it was such a weird show because they mostly wouldn't interact. Yes. Like, it was mostly like four separate tracks of stories.

Like, and they would only occasionally cross over. It was so weird. But it was also David Crane, Creator Friends. It was the Creator of Friends. Jamesborough's Philadelphia. And it had zero non-white people in the cast. People were like, are you guys crazy? But also...

You can't do this anymore. Right. But it had been a winning formula up until that moment. It was right around there when people were starting to ask questions. Starting to push back on it. But the famous story they tell is that they... Anyway, she was really good in it. Yeah.

Right before the first episode aired, Crane and Burroughs took the whole cast to Las Vegas. Have you guys heard the story before? Mm-mm. All expensive page. I'm just reading about this now. And they were like, guys, we don't want to stress you out, but you just need to understand this is the last time you're ever going to be able to go out in public again as normal people and especially as a group we saw what happened to the friends cast right and i want you guys

to have a great favor this savor this and burnthal was like for me this is actually sort of true yes and everyone else's like huh and then the the show like just collapsed immediately but the the confidence of this is it we are holding a hot hand this is new friends um crazy anyway she's great in this as the assistant to Manix. Who's constantly filling him in. The thing is I feel like that story probably happens a whole bunch.

Right. We just never hear it. It's like the, you know, NBA champion, you know, shirts they printed for the other guys who then gets shipped to, you know, whatever. It's just a particularly infamous one

and because most of that cast has then ended up finding success somewhere else. They all retell that story whenever they do press about like the fall starts of careers. Like if James Burroughs was directing a show back then, it was kind of like,

okay, this must be the next big comedy. Like that guy always directed. There was a 25-year run where he had not directed a single pilot that didn't go to series and last more than one season. It was insane. Yes. Like, it was just a kingmaker. Yeah. But anyway, love her in this and liked her find in the class from when I remember.

Don't really remember. This is a movie where everyone is great. Wait, is anyone bad, though? No. No. No. No. No.

And there are people in it where you're like, you're going to hire Dolph Lunger and to, like, stand at the top of a submarine for like a day and basically be arched. direction. It kind of nails it. That's the thing. He does great. It doesn't feel like an abuse of power on the Coen's part. Clancy Brown showing up for two seconds as a Clooney's co-star. Love to see him.

Every one of these people who shows up, you're like, well, but could anyone do what they're doing better than them? I mean, Dolf stands so well on that submarine. He's so imposing. I'm like that guy's a commie. But it's like it's presence. It's like history. It's reputational casting.

As we said like the fucking, like the future is loaded with. Right, all the... Just incredible that guys where you're like, Melamed, you're giving him two lines of dialogue? Melamette, I feel like, the other thing is, like, a lot of them are guys

who haven't been in Cohen movies, but you're like, how have they never been in a Cohen movie? Right, this is the first Kremholtz and then he does... It's first Kremholtz. And then it's the... I don't think Fisler had done one,

and that's another guy who feels... No, it feels like this. Right? He had popped up in a Cohen before. I was just about to say Karpowski, but does he have a line in this? He just takes the pictures, right? He just moves around.

He just smirks. But I'm like he's giving so much. It's giving so much. I don't know. That's kind of wild. Yeah. You do have to just think about like true grip was their biggest hit. That comes only a couple of years after they sweep the Oscars.

And then inside Lou and Davis is basically immediately greeted as a masterpiece, even though it doesn't become a big Oscar movie. It's like, this is maybe their best. thing, they were just running so hot where, like, anyone would show up for one day for them. For sure. And we haven't even shouted out the narrator. Michael Gambon. We love to hear him. Yeah.

But this movie has a $22 million budget. Like, think about how much fucking value there is. This is a movie with, like, big sets and big costumes and, like, an all-star cast and everything. People just wanted to play. Do you think about how Inside Lewin Davis wasn't nominated for any Oscars? I think about it constantly. That is crazy. Or did maybe get, like, a cinematography.

It must have gotten song and cinematography. I think it's a song. And no song? No, because remember they submitted, they're like, oh, you know, the please Mr. Kennedy. And they didn't rather than fairly well. I guess people thought it was too silly. Right.

Yeah, no, that's some of the dumbest shit of all time. That movie is, I'm excited to re-wash it. We will have done it at this point. It's too hot in New York right now. So hot. To watch that movie. Thank God we can push that. Like that movie is so cold.

It's the heat. I would just sort of be like, no, no, it's never felt like this in New York. This is science fiction. It's one of the great coat movies. It is. One of the great co-olds. I can't believe I come here and it's so hot. It's so hot.

You guys won't come to L.A. I come gladly and with pleasure. I fly to L.A. Trippingly. Trippingly. With pleasure. Perufely. Yes.

We were just having text conversation about a thing that David won't Dakota, LA form. It was a hard, it was an automatic we assume you're not doing. But I support it. Yeah. I'll film a video message. Train. You could just drive the whole way.

It's a great idea. I would love to do that. I don't like flying at all. I know. That's why I'm saying. And it's, of course, flying getting a bit of a bad rap right now, I will say. A couple of, a couple of red flags in the old news for airplanes. But it's not children, not that flying guys.

Children. Children. You say this. but the arguments were not very different pre-children. I took planes pre-children. I did. I did. I took planes. You did. Yes.

I did cross-country train trip to California and was wonderful. You enjoyed it, didn't you? I had a grand old time. Were there any hiccups? And I'm not talking about the star of hit, live action remake, how to train your track. I didn't realize there wasn't going to be Wi-Fi on the train because you go to areas of the country where there is nothing. And they were like, you will not have cell phone signal, let alone Wi-Fi on the train. And so I should have downloaded a bunch of stuff to my iPad before I got on.

That was the mistake I'm in. What did you do instead? Did some reading. Did some thinking. Staring out the window. A lot of time in the, whatever they call it, the, not the viewer car or whatever, but they had the one car that's like, and we know what it's called. That's like all big windows. And you drive through, drive through, the train runs through these areas where you're like, there is no other sign of human life.

Untouched beauty. anywhere you're like you only get to see this land if you're on this train is that the panoramic car or something i think that's right you know if we had the internet we could look it up we could and we don't we are recording this episode on a cross-country in a bunker because it is hot outside it is a bit of a bunker that we're in right now hail caesar what are things we should call out well i'm sorry actually that's uh time for a union break i'm gonna call it so uh box lunch or hot lunch Hot lunch David

This episode of Blank Check is brought to you by Warby Parker Our friends at Warby Parker And boy do I have a lot of things To say about them You're a committed Warby Parkerer Ding dong

Who's at the door? I guess I'll have to hold my thoughts for a second Hold on Who is that Someone's rolling in their own microphone in their own desk. Hello. Hello.

This is Ira Glasses. Welcome to this American site. This is a podcast about wearables that can improve your eyesight. Glasses, contact lenses. Griffin, you talk to this guy. You want me to talk to Ira Glass? All right, what's up, Ira Glasses? I'm here with a really fascinating story.

It's about a company called Warby Parker. They use nothing but premium materials in every. frame. Warby Parker designs every frame in-house. Our collection includes silhouettes, colors, and fits made to suit every face. Do you have anything for this character beyond this voice you're doing? Excuse me. I'm just going to say it. I'm here in good faith, speaking to you about an astonishing story, a story of human perseverance. Everyone knows what Warby Parker is, right? Because it's basically, they've got retail locations across the U.S. and Canada, so you can go in and get styled by an expert advisor.

They've got glasses that are affordable, Griffin, and you not Ira Glasses who I don't know. You are very, like, you're always using them, right? I use their glasses a lot, but I really want to hear what Ira Glasses has to say. A lot of Warby Park locations offer

comprehensive eye exam starting $85. That's really cheap. Yeah, David, I was about to say that. I don't appreciate you refusing to acknowledge me. I just don't think the characters should just roll in and then verbatim read ad copy. That's all I'm going to say. That's all I'm going to say.

This is a story. I am breaking. Okay. It's a story of the human spirit. I just feel like usually the character's got like a big thing we have to sort out and then we really have your big thing. What's your big thing? I want to be done with the ad.

Well, we have different approaches to podcasting. My name is Ira Glasses and this is this American site. Many Warby Parker locations offer comprehensive eye exam starting at $85. I already said that. Well, did you say this? Add a pair and save 15% off when you purchase two or more prescription pairs of glasses or sunglasses. I do appreciate you saying that.

I do think that's a pretty much. Maybe I have something to contribute to the conversation. And that's available both online and in store. I was going to say that. And if you're going to buy something online, they got free shipping, they got free 30-day returns, and they got that thing where you take a picture of your face and you can kind of put the glasses on your face. Hey, I don't come to your door and knock the microphone out of your mouth. Well, you literally did just do that?

But did I knock the microphone out of your mouth? Well, I mean, I suppose you... I came to your door, but let the record show. Did I knock the microphone out of your mouth? No, you're... Okay, so I'll accept that I came to your door. Hey, Griff, Griff, just real quick. Yeah, hey, this is Griffin, very different voice.

I just wanted to ask, like, have you picked out any glasses of Warby Parker? Of course, all my glasses are from Warby Parker. Right now, these are my mains. I'm wearing, they are the toddy. They are the toddy and tortoise shell. I love them. I often buy two pairs at once so I can get the same style in two different colors and make one sunglasses, one clear lenses, and I can swap them out if I'm feeling a little saucy.

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That is the pair I wear. Just so you have a visual picture of me in your head. I wear the bow. Ira glasses, this American side. The kind of shit as like students of filmmaking that you know they just love digging into the details of like the lunch strata. The lunch strata. And what terms were used, David, crunching ice directly on Mike, almost leaning in to make sure we capture it in full quality. Again, again.

But yes, that bit of like you never seen the Jesus actor who they're just like, we found a guy who has the right look from behind and doesn't have to deliver dialogue. Feet wise. But the movie also never shows us the guy head on. And you just hear this meek voice of a guy who just kind of works as Jesus from most angles. And that fucking just cut in. Well, I mean, for a film that's about faith and art and faith in oneself's work and passion and purpose, like for Jesus to not be a principle is very funny. That's the other thing I think this movie captures really well is like the thing that kind of goes away with the death of the studio system is this sort of feeling of. like this is just a job. People clock in and clock out, right? Because you have like a contract and you know when one production ends, you're going to be put on the next one. Right. This back lot is your office, right? You're not like negotiating to be like, oh, God, I hope I can get this grip job in Bulgaria. I haven't booked anything in 18 months. And this sort of like kind of wrote like banal routines of these things. And this guy just going up to the fucking guy who's literally like mounted on.

across and being like, are you principal or extra? And the guy's just like, I actually don't even know. And it's just a matter of which lunch do I give you. Right, exactly. I don't know. It's work a day. It's like, it's, yeah. But it's always loving or at least affectionate. Yes. And there's a world where that's almost kind of glib where you're like, come on, guys. Like, what are we glossing over? But it never feels like they're glossing anything over. They're giving you the kind of nasty side. of Hollywood without it being hectoring or you know yeah it's nasty and nostalgic at the same time just like me can i circle back to a couple yeah big time uh can i circle back to a couple more hoby things hobi yes one i love that manix trusts him and tells him what's going on hope yes that like

it's like he's the one who's like he's been and hobby goes like this bad real bad or whatever bad for movie stars everywhere hope he's kind of a tom cruise like he believes in protecting movies you know what i mean and his speech about like you should look at the extries which is like is this a sort of like classist i'm a star look at the lowest guys on the rung but then he explains that he's just like you know i i knew i know the gaffers you know like i know the script girls right you're like he is someone who like has such respect and love for everyone who works on these movies and understands that's like we're all part of the same thing i don't have ego but just simply the extras aren't here every day so you just don't know and so you just don't know and

Some of them I like quite a bit, you know, but some of them, you don't know. But, yeah, Hobie, like, clocks the briefcase thing. And you see this moment where Brolin does the math. And it's like, is he just so tired that, like, this was what he had lauded to be his three minutes of closing his eyes and decompressing. And Hobie comes in and he's just like, fuck it, I'm going to tell you. Or does he correctly read that, like, he's smarter than people think. Right. He's, like, considerate, he's thoughtful.

He's observant. He might actually have good intel, which is. rewarded in the fact that Hobie's the one who puts it fucking together and rescues Baird. Well, Eddie reads Hobie so well also because Hobie is like, whatever you need, I can get you. Yeah. But it's not like, but he's not saying it in this like cloying way or like he, Hobie never comes off as someone who wants to climb the ladder. No, they talk, they talk about that he genuinely wants to help. The other thing I want to bring up, Veronica Osario, UCB alum, is so phenomenal in this.

Yeah. Playing like a Carmen Miranda type. Who the studio is trying to, now that they're trying to make Hobie an A-List star, they're trying to set him up with one of their other stars to get more press to present him as a bit of a lethario. And it's such a sweet little romance in this movie that they go in this arranged date and you can tell they actually... They're vibing. She's so cute. They're catching a manufactured thing that is becoming real.

And them having the two fucking Switten stopped by the table and they have the lines they've been coached to say. And yet they're just sort of like... There's an actual energy here that isn't fake. It's so good. She is so good. It's endearing. She's great. Your chemistry is so good.

I love the brass tacks of them explaining their fucking routines. How do you bounce the fruit on the head? How do you do the lasso shit? You know? Just like this is the grunt work that goes into then making something look really effortless. And lassoing her finger is such an innocent move that then they have to like that when they are confronted by the two tildas, it's like suddenly they have to be on, but then they're already on. Italian Oregon.

I think he calls it Italian oregano Spaghetti spaghetti They're so good I believe them more than I believe Sean Mendes and Camilla Cabello I believe

Give me another manufacturer Many people who are married This is a great question I've been too afraid to ask four years You know and he never got a chair So I also don't know Canadian Is Camilla Cabo

The one who is Cinderella Oh yeah In the Amazon's Cinderella That is... She comes in a little package That was a tough watch I feel like That was a tough one

That might be your least favorite movie Of all time I feel like you sometimes identify it And part of it was also like deep lockdown Yeah it wasn't a great time Right But that is like maybe the closest I've ever seen to like

Is David gonna be okay? I like Kate Canning Like I liked blockers And it was one of those things Where I'm like Is this like You love James Corden And supporting roles in movies

I like James Acaster Who's also and Ramesh Ragnanathan It's good people in Not enough. But it felt like the apotheosis of a sort of like, we can't just be like, guys, did you know, Cinderella is kind of problematic. There has to be more than this.

You're right. We cannot do this. We must cease. Because then you know what I watched recently, and I want to say that I love and respect our friend, Rachel Zegler, and cannot wait for her to come back on the show. Same.

Yes, possibly will have happened recently if not cut the statement out, Ben. But nonetheless, but I watch that. Snow White move. Yes, and he is stinky poo-foo. It's stinky poo-poo. It's no good. I will say this.

She acquits herself just about as well as you could in that kind of a situation. And Rachel is a fucking movie star in the way that this movie is about where you're just like, any time she is doing something on screen is magical and she is so multi-skilled and smart about what she's doing, that anytime it is a close-up of her face, you're like, this is a real movie. And then it cuts out to a wide shot of the eight worst-looking characters I have ever seen my life. I have never been more horrified. Every time these Seedri Dwarves were on screen, I wanted to eat glass and then spit it into my eyes.

Well, let me tell you, Rachel, a star so talented. You're trying to spit it in the start. Not forcing anybody to spit glass. Yes. Yes. But the dwarves showed up at my screening. The child behind me screamed. Yeah.

They came out. They're like, they're shadowy. And then they walk out and they're like, hi-ho, hi-ho, hi-ho, whatever. Or whatever. No, it's hi-ho with a bunch of new stuff. Yeah, yeah. And the kid behind me goes, ah! I turned to my girlfriend and I said, like 30 seconds into them being introduced.

I said, I am physically suffering from having to look at them on screen and I think this is going to be a big issue for the rest of the movie. Anytime they were on screen, I was like shaking. You would think that they're a small issue, Griffith. They should be a little issue. And in fact, but is another example of what you're saying of like, okay, we want to make a big expense of live action Snow White. obviously snow white is problematic now so we have to address all the controversies head on and I'm like or maybe you should take the lesson here which is don't make modern snow white don't make modern Cinderella if you're so worried about these movies don't do them right it's also the new songs never mesh well I never watched the Cinderella I mean I'm always concerned about David but yes that period of time was no good no bueno yeah um concerned about me we're all worried about you all the time it's snow white already only had like three songs to begin with in the original

movie and then this movie involves a lot of whistling right this movie cuts out one of the three songs because it's woke and you're like so we're down to two and then it's like it's fun to me and so what's this song about they're like I don't know they also

they don't want the dwarves to be dwarves right because they think that's condescending so they're like it is them and they look like the cartoon designs, and they have the same names, but they're actually some kind of weird magical creature. So they do hi-ho and then the middle high-ho, they add

three verses being like, we are a mortal, we come for a sacred realm. I'm not shitting you. They do you are right. You are right. And they're doing like fucking mining as if it was like Temple of the Rings dwarfs. And then they just start explaining like, we're our own

thing. We can detect jewels with a special sense. And the jewels glow. We're not exaggerating. It's absurd. And I'm like ripping out my question. Children are crying. Children are screaming. Rachel is very good in that film. She is. She really does acquit herself. Someone else in the film I thought was no way. There was another actress. Oh, I believe she sings

quite a bit in it. And it sounds like, yes. Something was happening in those scenes. Yeah, I'm not sure if I call it. In defense, there was such a warm reception to her singing the song Imagine on Instagram in the year 2020 that who wouldn't then follow that lead and say, I got a quadruple down on this. I mean, I thought that video was so powerful and meaningful and it really turned my pandemic experience around.

And right now, I really would love to lead us in a rendition of the magic. Okay, and guys, just to pay popper tribute to the original video, let's make sure that none of us are in the same thing. That when we hand off from one line to another. I vote not going outside where it's hot. And if you want to like jam some sort of sand into your eyes, iPhone microphone, you know, really make it hard for it to pick up the noise. Right.

If I want to hold it up to your nostrils. Some people are doing it a missed whipping wind. Some people have dogs barking in the background. Oh, I'm also a part of the cast of the Wonder Woman 1984. Yes. They should make Wonder Woman 1985. What if they did that? They were like, now we're slowing it down.

Like, not present. Except it's not about 1985. It's about the bowling for soup song. Yes. Please elaborate. No. Okay. Other hopey stuff I want to say

Yes In that in that date scene She goes to how did you end up in this position And he says this kind of story That's this thing that used to happen That doesn't really happen anymore But Chang-Tanem is sort of one of these guys Where he's like

I was a rodeo Guy proper Then I got side work as a wrangler Then at some point they just go like Can we throw you a line Then they realized I could speak I think he became a stunt person Then they threw him a line

Like this like slow evolution and then they heard I could sing and then they decided I got to be the guy you know the line of and then I get to be the guy right

is just it's I don't know Channing is such a good comp I haven't thought about it that way he's obvious it's why I think his casting is so good Alden himself I suppose a little bit

this sort of I mean he's a little bit more of the like right we found this gem on a fully firm that's the difference like where do we place him whereas Channing like we all got to see him build

yeah we can this point weapons has come out, and I hope he's really good news. Very, very excited to see him in it. Yeah. And of course he's in Iron Heart. Of course. Yeah. The world's most Iron Heart. On time series.

The most, right? He released exactly when it was originally planned to be released. You know who he's playing in it, right? He's... No, who's he playing? He's playing Ezekiel Stain. He's playing Jeff Bridges' son. That's weird. And Anthony Ramos is The Red Hood? Oh, boy. They're playing, like, 80th-tier characters.

Right. And assigning, like, wildly overkill all of my actors to play them That is the Marvel TV way But like I occasionally will I'll send any tweet I see about Ironheart To my brother because we're like obsessed with Ironheart Not the Red Hood, the hood, the Red Hood's a fucking DC character I'm a fucking idiot

And uh Like there was some tweet that was like Ironheart will not use magic Until later in the series and I was like What wait? She's using magic? Is that? Like the dwarves! Like when did that get at? Well this is she had a fucking suit By the time this episode comes out it will have been a long set

thing, but isn't the rumor that Sasha Baron Cohen plays Mephisto in the series? Are you kidding me? I believe the show gets into the satanic arts, which is then you realize that he was pulling the strings on the hood. I think that's where this is going. Or perhaps that was five versions

ago. Right. No, I think you're, certainly that's rumored. Anyway, Hail Caesar, anything else you want to say about beautiful Hobie Doyle? We must just call out, would that it were so simple, which is, for my money, one of the funniest scenes in the history.

I know that I like to make hyperbolic statements as such, but this thing hits so fucking hard every single. It's kind of like a brother thing of like doing the, you know, damn we're in a tight spot four times of like it's like it takes, it goes on for

so long that you're like, this can't be funny anymore and then of course it gets funny again. But also it's such a slow burn of just like him arriving on set, Lorenz immediately clocking like this isn't my kind of guy, right? I love the character detail. It's the kind of thing

that finds plays so well. But, like, he is such a fucking pretentious snob that he's actually doing a bad job as a director in the process. Because it's like, dude, stop using the fucking $40 words. Right. He's kind of bullying. It's clearly not getting through to him

and it's not helping your movie. I like the little jokes that get built in, such as when he's, like, switches from Mr. Lorenz to Lawrence. And Hobie's like, wait a second. I thought, and he's like, no, we can use our Christian name. You know, things like that. Have you seen this before, Ben? I love the subjokes.

No, I had never seen it. I want your overall pants, but this scene in particular. It's the physical comedy of it is something that I've really dug in on. I think he just plays the physicality and just, like, conveying how out of depth he is. And just by a little bit, right? But it's just subtly off enough, even in, like, the steps and the handling the door and everything. pull out, and all you can hear is his shoes squeaking, echoing in the room. Here comes Hobie.

Who's playing the female? It's Emily Beecham. Right, right, very funny. They did a really good, and you have Agnes Dean in here as well, in Jack Houston. Like, some of the fake movie stars they cast that you only get to see in snippets are correctly identified. These people have old-fashioned faces. Yeah, they are, like, old-school movie beauties with, like, old-school kind of, like, they hold themselves. in a certain way.

And they make the most of their two lines whatever it is. I adore that she kind of like what does she say? She says, Allegra can't make it

or something. I can't remember the exact line. But the more frustrated she gets with Hobie, like you can see it little by little and Hobie's clocking it and getting more flustered.

Where she has to react to him and you see, I think they do a close upon her as he delivers his first line and you see it in her eyes of like this whole movie is going down the dream.

And she can't totally totally blow it because she's got to stay in the scene. But she looks like they pulled her out of a time machine. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They also costumed her as such. Right? Like the costume and they let her. We haven't talked about the costuming in this. It's also, it's so perfect. But this movie has like, we are in

1951. God, even the hair. They really capture that era. Like, perfect beauty lighting in a way we don't get anymore. We haven't shouted out, good luck bar. Rest in peace. Good luck bar. And those feel us. Oh, tell us about that. I don't know what you're talking about. This is some L.A. nonsense.

This is not L.A. nonsense. The place it keeps going for the meeting with the Lockheed Bar again. It's like the, it's the Chinese restaurant. Great old fashioned Chinese restaurant. Great bar. Went on a date there once. Great vibes. Hey, how'd the date go.

All right. Okay. I've been to that restaurant as well. It's awesome. There you go. Yeah. I never been there. Great food.

But I feel like the locations they chose not only is like, I don't know, like, like you could see it as an equivalent of like the Formosa Cafe, right? where it's kind of like people went there all the time back in the golden age of Hollywood. And it's like the places they went were also just as much like facades as the studio, you know, like it's, and so this is their entire world and it is like them attempting to leave the studio. But at the same time, they're still in this like set. Shirley, very well set. For most is where LA Confidential where, um, yes.

Where he's like, you know, you look like, don't just because you're a horror look cut to look like blah. It's like, no, it is her. I love that all of these locations. are, like, scattered around L.A., right? Like, it's not just this. I mean, like, Formosa's near where I live. Los Felas had good luck bar. There's, like, in Koreatown,

there's a bar called The Prince, which was used in Chinatown. It was also the bar in New Girl. This is getting... I love it. I love it. I know the Prince because, I think our friend Alice and Herman

had one of her wedding events there. Oh, Peewee's sister? Yes, exactly. Have you ever thought that, like, Los Angeles, another term for it could be like the city of England. Oh, man.

Because it's like Los Angeles. You know? Do you remember that time that I won the Oscar for Best Actress, and it hit me in that moment. It's true what they say about this city. It's full of angels. There you go. I'm sorry, guys.

I just got to say, can we stick to the script, please? That really was just like too much. Can you give me any direction or anything you want differently this time? Try doing what you're doing, but better. Okay. It's true what they say about this city. Jetfield doesn't melt steel beams She did say that

She did say that We never went to the moon Um Fake Lazy to Stanley Kubrick Too lazy to go to the old moon You know my favorite LA bar is so surely

It's a little place called chicken on a stick A little jazz bar Could have just called it sticking That's where jazz was created That's where jazz was created by this Really shiny white guy The Copacabana style club. How shiny?

Pretty shiny. The Copacabana's club where Hobie and Ron Carcerra's character, home for gaming. Carlotta. Carlotta go on the arranged date, right? There is that feeling of like, oh, this is living the big Hollywood life. Which, A, things were so much cooler when fucking movie stars weren't going to the Viper Club or wherever the fuck they're going now. It's the Viper Room. Okay.

And it was like, man. I don't think they go there anymore. Hard days. Hard day of work. You got to go out and party. you sit at a fucking white tablecloth place or some big band plays this most brightly lit room in the world

and everyone has a dress nice and then just point at each other but like yes, Channing Tatum's also there with the suitcase like the two gossip commasers are there like this is like their nightlife and yet this is all part of the machinery this is basically a nighttime version of the studio commissary.

Yeah, it is it's so controlled but it's supposed to not feel controlled. Can I shout out another guy in this movie? One of the actors in the Roman movie Senator Systemus, yes is played by a guy called

Clement von Frankenstein Quite a good name. Whoa. Say it again. Clement von Frankenstein. Faster. Clemav von Frankenstein. slower.

Clement Von Frankenstein. Yeah. Isn't that a cool name? He's a member of the Frankenstein Yeah. I would go by Frankenstein. Well, Frankenstein.

What if my name was like David Drakenstein? And I'm like, oh, it's Dracula, actually. That's what I'm saying. Right. Just go with it, man. He died in 2019. He did. And his rest, he's, he's, uh, he's interred in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery.

Also in L.A. Did we know that Heather Golden Hirsch was married to Brian F. O'Berne? No, that's wonderful. That's a cool fucking couple. A couple, uh, great character actor legends there. Yeah. I mean, Brian Oferburn, great theater actor. Yeah.

Um, I love this movie. He has a little accent over the eye. Everyone knows this. Brian Fulburn. Well. Anyway, everyone has great names. This is just a movie I find so relaxing for how much it is like a movie that really spins my brain and gets me thinking off about a bunch of different things. Right.

Your brain is thinking off? My brain is thinking off. But the aesthetic pleasures of this movie, the like tuning of every single performance, and that it does ultimately like reassert why I am so obsessed and build my life around these stupid things that are so hard to make and involve like so much pain. suffering and also involve like the worst people in the world ruining other people's lives it just makes me feel very romantic I love the name the future

it's so dumb it's so extremely dumb we are the future I like that their ransom note is also just like somebody you know got on a typewriter wrote four lines cute little note

but none of this cutting things out of magazines Also that they're literally their plan is to hand a big briefcase of money to a submarine captain so that he like remembers them fondly. You'll just take it to the Soviet Union be like here's a, you know, demonstrably small amount of money. Complements of the future. Right. It doesn't feel like they want to go to Russia. I think they're more like in case they take over, they'll like look kindly upon us or whatever. I'm amused.

Okay, that sequence does feel like, like, everything about it is hilarious to me. It's also like they all have the same rain. coats. It feels like a fantasy sequence. Yes. It also, it like looks like tank photography in this very traditional way, even though it is ostensibly a quote-unquote real-world sequence, it is as coded in the language of the genres of films that you're seeing in the productions. And even the look of the submarine, having this kind of model, and then you're like, now we're just on a big balsa wood that's clearly only the top layer. That's the one where I, like, that's the one scene I feel like doesn't have that dichotomy that the rest of the film has. That's kind of like, it's fake,

but it's real at the same time. We pull away, we see the set. It's a classic co-end deflation, right? Of, like, this is the big meeting. And then, like, Channing does his, like, perfect, like, dancer jump. Yes. But his foofy little dog jumps off, and he has to catch him, which then causes him to drop the briefcase,

and it was all for nothing. God. A hundred-k. Yeah. I think we're going to play the box office game, unless there's anything else. It's called one tiny thing I like. Please.

Jonah Hill tells a story about the weekend that Superbad came out and he went out to a bar with his friends and they were like, you're a fucking movie star overnight. This is crazy. You've got to have like the best weekend of your life. Right. You've just like immediately made it. And they go to this bar and Scarlett Johansson's there. And they were like, you should go talk to Scarlett Johansson.

And he was like, a guy like me can't talk to Scarlet Johansson. And they were like, my guy, you just became a movie star. Your number one at the bar. Your thing's a hit. Sure. You can go talk to her. And he went over and talked to her. And she clearly had no.

No idea who he was. And he talks about it as like the perfect immediate deflation at the moment he was riding high. There's something kind of nice about this movie ending with them getting married off screen. It is beautiful. I like that she pruned his ego. And then, you know, off screen inflates his character. It also feels like part of what attracts her to him is that he is some schmo where she's like, this guy isn't going to get caught up in some crazy fucking ego. Totally.

Well, she likes again that he's reliable. And he's, well, I don't know, can I say one more thing about it? And it's, listen, you're not tired of me yet. I mean, here's, it's like, I feel like rewatching this for me, I was kind of like, yeah, this movie is about, I mean, it's about a million things. But it is also squarely about whether, you know, to have passion for the job that you do. And is it like, how much do you sacrifice in order to feel fulfilled to an extent at what you do day in and day out? Yes. And there is a way to read this film as like, well, the problem is he could do Lockheed and he would just be dead inside or he does this and he continues to not see his family and he's, you know, dying in some other way. And there's no, and there's no middle ground and that's such a bleak read. But the film, but what I love about it is that the Coens kind of push you to see it as more optimistic than that. They're reassuring. They're like Jonah Hill to me. Well, and also that Allison Pill is like, it would be nice to have you around more, but isn't like you better take that job. Right, right. And his children. children still love him. And you can tell that he clearly wishes he could be there a little more, but he is so relieved that like, oh my God, his problem got solved.

I'll tell you something. Please. I was married to Allison Pill. Every night. No, if I was. Knock, knock. Open the door. I guess I would have keys.

Key and door. I got a prescription. It says one pill nightly. Exactly. Nightly. Do not skip. And thank you for saying that, and I do think it's important. Take with water.

I prefer. The reason I said earlier that there's this sort of like realization within Eddie that he is dirty show folk is that point which is just like it's not about just finding joy in a job, but the whole thing about the fucking entertainment industry making stuff is for all the like perceived glamour if you make it all the way to the top which is a fucking moonshot, a lazy moon shot. So much of it is so unglamorous, so annoying, so soul crushing that the only reason you do it is if there's just nothing else you can do. Right? Like to some degree you're broken inside. where you're just like, even just being the guy fucking handing out the box lunches who once George Clooney is giving his speech seems like the most checked out dude in the world until that moment and you see him lock in and be like,

oh, fuck, Baird's doing a good take, right? As does everyone else on set starts to look up with this like Spielberg gaze of like, we're witnessing something cool happening. That's why we do this job rather than work at a restaurant, right? And I think it's telling that there are the couple of moments

where the Lockheed Martin guy is interviewing Eddie and he'll say like do you really want to spend all your time like babysitting children you know like carnie circus folk like he'll say these kind of derogatory things and every time he does something like that it cuts back to Manix and he winces where he's just kind of like holding it together but he's like don't talk that way about my people right I know you think that I'm the serious grown up who gets things done and they're the silly petulant but it's hard for them yes yeah and like I am one of them I just do it in a different way yeah he cares he cares can i just share one final thing yes please me too make a three i don't know

we'll see but the water sequence is awesome the uh the johanssen yeah i like when cameras get splashed with water and i want to see that more uh-huh you like a wet cam i do yeah i do yeah yeah sometimes blood does that dirt does that yeah but you want the water Stained the lens Yeah, mess with the lens Throw stuff on it Yeah, don't check the gate Yeah

You want a dirty lens And keep the gate unchecked And then I'll just say with the Roman Kind of opening When you see Clooney I think Arches For pedestrians

I want to see more of that again I'm sorry It's so epic to walk under an arch So you just want to be like On the street And like here's an arch It's not serving any real purpose Yes.

But now, do you ever feel that way when you're, like, walking under some scaffolding on a New York City sidewalk? No, I don't feel that way. That's the Washington. I'm more like rats. That's arch in progress.

Arch in progress. Do you go to... Arch to be shot? To go to Washington Square Park and just... Yeah. Big arch. Loop around. You should be crushed out of the day.

Absolutely. Doing laps. Grand Army Plaza. There's a few big arches around. You should go to Paris and then go into the middle of the eight wall. The Arc de Tram. I did last summer

And I got a lot of arch I got a taste of it Yeah Fucking point me to the French triumphs of like Jesus You got a whole arch for it You're being so nasty And not nostalgic today

Yeah that's so true I should even know Ah, Patty You're being more of a Thessaly Thacker When you should be more of a Thora Thacker I can't wait to revisit France In my most excited upcoming new movie Ratatoui 2

Why don't they just call it Radatatoo? I hope that by the time this episode comes out that rumor has been quashed definitively but i also wonder if 50% of the meeting where they're batting about is just like i mean you put the two numeral two in the title the thing sells itself could really put it anywhere a marketing department could take the year off my guess is it's a cat that now cooks that would suck that would suck ben i've liked every idea you've ever had they've lost all of your credit they have to figure out how to get along they can't put a cat in a chef's

head it's just the cat in the hat yeah you can't And he's already got his own movie coming out next year. Damn. Okay. We'll see, I guess. We got to workshop this. Yeah. The film came out.

Oh. Uh-huh. What are you going to say with Shirley? It's only when the film came out. To the box office name. We love Shirley so much. I love you guys. I've missed you guys.

We've missed you. Our listeners have missed you. Do you remember this? I've missed hearing Griffin say Totemic, which he hasn't said today. Totemic. You use the word totemic a lot. I'm going to save it. I do.

Haven't I said that to you before? Never mind. Okay. No, I think you have. Do you remember? I was debating whether to say it now or save it for a year in the episode and make it count. You were in town last year. Oh, yeah.

I mean, you're off. You're coming to town. I come into town. We had dinner at Plastiffitt. Oh, yeah. Nice work if you can get it. And then we walk out, if you remember this. We're walking in Clinton Hill.

And then I see just out of the corner of my eye into the window of like a person's house. And what was happening on the television was something we had successfully blocked out, which was the Trump-Biden debate. annihilated Biden for good. Yeah. Like, I think we had been like, let's have dinner and we won't worry about the, you know, like, ah, you know, so stressful. Yeah.

And then, like, I got home and like my brother was texting me, you know, my wife, where they were like, it's the apocalypse. He's basically stowed there not speaking for an hour. Even Trump seems concerned. No, that was the last happy moment. Like, you went home to Ariana. Yeah, I was staying at Ariano's. And I think she was like, I walk in the door and she goes,

Biden's going to win And you were like, oh really? And she was like, no. I looked up because I knew I had deliberately planned something else on that night. We all had the same thought of like, I can't be, you know, watching that. And we were like, we'll grab dinner after our very hard job. Romley and I went to see Little Shop a horror for the third time. And I walked out and I was like, Little Shop, Little Shop, and then I got like 40 texts that are like,

it's all that. that's all that's collapsing truly it was one of those things where I was like oh I assume you'd do bad and they're like well you assumed wrong it's a billion times worse I think like 10 different people in my life texted me skull emojis wait that's right I remember being like oh no he didn't do well did he and she was like mm-hmm right first minute was fine I feel like it pretty quickly went off the rail yeah he started with cornhop great opening yeah oh man they just kept telling him to say what that General Motors is alive and Corbubb is dead. What did he started with that? All right. The film came out February 5th, 2016. Number two at the box office, opening to $11 million. It ends up at...

Domestically, it ended up at 30. Okay. And worldwide, it was 665. It is kind of crazy that the Cohen brand was so strong at this point that they can make a movie for $22 million that just gets to $30 million, even though most of the public is like, huh? Sure. On to the next one. Um... But okay, yes.

So number two. Number two. Number one at the box office is a animated sequel number two, like in its second weekend. It's a deuce. It's in a second weekend. It's an animated sequel. Is it a three? Yes, it is.

It's a three. Is it Kung Fu Panda three? Correct. Kate Hudson. Is that right? I believe his lady panda in that. Brian Cranston is dad panda? He finds all the other pandas.

It's a movie set in the last. Land of the Pandas. I have never seen it. I think I've seen that one. And you know so much. I think the only one I haven't seen is four. I haven't seen either of those. I know that one was a co-production with like, I believe, Pearl Animation Studios. No, you know what? I've never seen it. I've only seen one and two, I guess. DreamWork specifically launched a Chinese animation company to get funding from the Chinese government and be like, and we're going to make movies for your market. And it was called Pearl Animation Studios. And I think that one, they were like, we're doing, something kind of interesting. We're not making this one. Pearl is making it. A different company.

That really worked. Really worked. Pearl was shut down five years ago. Three and four are holdovers from Christmas time, both very successful movies. Okay, from 2015. I would have to imagine that one of them is Star Wars Episode 7, The Force Awakens. That is number three at the box office. It has made $906 million in eight weeks. People like to forget that it is still. domestically the highest grossing movie of all time. Number four at the box office is... I do like to forget that.

People think that endgame overtook it because it did worldwide. But domestically, it's Force Awakens by a good margin. The other one. Is a Best Picture nominee, won some Oscars, big hit. Star Wars counter-programming.

I guess so. Grown-up movie, 2015, it was a big hit. It would cross-a-off. Oh, it is the revenant. Yes. Which made a lot of money. And that's a big hit. I think sucks and is for losers.

I'm more of a fan of it than you. I'm not wondering if I were to watch it now. It's an incredible looking movie. It's like sort of an unbelievable technical achievement. I will brag that I saw it early. And I was like, this thing sucks. This is D-O-A. And I had the opposite whole reaction where I walked out and I was like,

this thing is making zero dollars, and it's fucking coming up empty at the Oscars. Like, I had an unvarnished opinion before I'd heard any reviews, and that thing just completely bounced off of it. It is not your kind of movie, I would say, sort of Mountain Man, serious, survivalist epic thing. But I also think Leo winning the Oscar for that is like a good encapsulation of a lot of what's wrong with the Oscars and their mentality. Definitely. You don't think actors should suffer?

He ate liver. Exactly. I saw The Revenant with my dad, and he walked out. and was like, that bear was too small. He fixates on, like, one critique. Yeah. And it takes him out of it. Mostly because if there's a bunch of talking, there's a language barrier and he needs

a minute. But that movie. The more doesn't have a ton of talking. But the bear was too small. Number five of the box office is new this week. It is a romantic drama, a sparks. It's a spark. I would say the more forgotten sparks.

It's one more forgotten sparks is interesting. Is it the one? With Marsden? No. No. Okay, I'm gonna try to get to this by... No! It's not the Julianne Huff, Josh Demel one.

Yeah, you're gonna struggle with Star because I would say this one is a little light on, you know, star dust. Right. From the disgusting. It was a Marsden, Michelle Monaghan, I think we're the one. You can talk about other Nicholas Sparks movies if you want. But this kind of had...

I feel like these are two guys who they are, hoping, you know, a guy and a gal who they are hoping to make stars. It's not the lucky ones. No. No. Is it younger? Nope. They're not young. I just looked this up and I forgot this existed. Are the stars young? Uh-huh. They're in their 30s. Okay. Early 30s. But they're trying to launch them

as stars. I think so. Yeah. The guy is someone that Hollywood for a few years is like, should he be a star? Uh-huh. And it was like now. So it's not the... Yeah. Did Patrick Schwarzenegger do one at some point? But it's not that. I mean, he's about to be like Cyclots or whatever. I know. He's going to be something um Hollywood was trying to make them happen

I mean sort of I'll tell you that the film made 23 million on a budget of 10 okay I'll tell you that it was directed by Ross Katz hmm that also made adult beginners does not help at all

no it doesn't who was the distributor of this picture the distributor was lion's gate so it was also kind of maybe a lower tier one yeah and I feel like the sparks shine is kind of going away at this point like this is a leader you know this one's tough yeah i mean i i completely forgot this it give me one of the stars and see if i might not even be able to get this title but give me give me one of the stars uh benjamin walker oh fuck yes and it's uh

teresa palmer correct and it is called ah fuck you've also got maggie grace i can picture the ilexandra didario you know the truth is you could just toss out any word he's wearing sunglasses isn't got a dumb smile. It's not called like the best of us, is it? No. But the title's almost something that meaningless. Yeah, just toss out words. It's not called all of me.

Is there an of in the title? No. Is it the the blanks? It's called the choice. Yeah, that's one of least existent movies we've ever had come up in a box office. Alexander Didario, Tom Welling, Tom Wilkinson. Humana, Humana. That's the one getting you go.

Yeah. panned by critics. Also knew this week at number six is Pride and Prejudice in Zombies, another sort of bomb. Yeah. Directed by Burr Steers, I believe. I went down a weird Wikipedia rabbit hole

on how fucking hot the development of that movie was for 10 years before it ended up just getting kind of fucking dumped in theaters. But people forget that was supposed to be Natalie Portman starring and David O. Russell directing. They dumped it. Right. It was, like, the juice of that gimmick had, like, long since vanish.

And fucking Benjamin Walker as Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter had bombed. Had happened. The thing was over. Yeah. You've also got a movie I stand for Craig Gillespie's The Finest Hours. Yes. And getting over that bah. You got ride-along two.

Not film you tried to get in. I was. You were close? I was close. Yeah. And then they replaced you with, like, Ken Jong or something. I don't know if I ever. talked about this on Mike or if I've talked about it on mic

80 times, but they wanted me to, I would have had to have quit the pilot of vinyl before it was shot. Yes, that was it, right? Which was like, I mean, at the end of the day, I think it's better that you did vinyl. It got directed by Martin's Corsese.

That's the biggest thing. And it did go to series and it did pay my rent for a year when this podcast made no money. Like, you know, no one remembers ride along too. Do you know, the other part of it is the casting director who was really kind of champion me for this part, which was written to be a fucking 20-something Zuckerberg, the annoying guy. And it was me, Will Poulter, and Dylan O'Brien.

Sure. And it was a test. And they wouldn't let me test unless I quit vinyl. And I came to trivia, and I hadn't slept in two days. And I was like, this feels like the biggest decision of my career. What do I do? And it was an overlap of two days, but they, between the two productions. But they wouldn't allow it.

And I had to quit the one job. And I chose vinyl, which was the right move. But the other thing that happened was that casting director had such a B and bonnet of like I want to fucking hire him that a year later she gets hired onto a new series and says this is my chance to hire Griffin name and it was the tick there you go if I had done right along two

I probably also wouldn't have done the tick which is more important to me and that's how I met you that's how we met yes well you interviewed him for the tick we're being nostalgic and not nasty dude surely showed up on set in what I'm not kidding was probably the hottest day we ever filmed was in a

cooling tent the day before that the tent was a cooling tent that didn't have a fan They bought the fan because that previous day, Peter had fainted. And so Shirley at least got to be an attempt with a fan. And we met. Yeah. We love Shirley. No, I love you guys.

Griffin, him and breaking big. It was the headline. I mean, I remember you guys were, yeah, you guys were doing your podcast. I remember meeting you and you were, and David was like, you're going to meet my friend. And I was like, I know this. But we've only been doing the podcast for a little over a year at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were very neat.

I still remember when you were, we were walking an office. Olive Garden. I was a fellow at the Atlantic and you were like, I think my friend and I are going to do a Star Wars podcast. And I was like, that sounds fun. Yeah. Sounds neat. You should do that. Good luck with that. Weird choice. Yeah. Remember what Olive Garden? It was kind of a weird choice. I was still the only time I've ever been. Um, yeah. I don't know why we did that. He was like, you, Joe and Kevin. Yeah, I think it was a bit because we were like, Kevin being like let's, yeah, I love Olive Garden you've never been. Yeah. Whatever. The breadsticks are good. The breadsticks still hit. Mm-hmm. I get it dreams.

number that in the box office The Boy, that movie about The Boy with Jared Kushner. Oh, right, of course, which then led to Brahms, colon, the Boy, too? Of course, which is directed by Tarkovsky. That's one of the weirdest titles ever. Broms the Boy, too. Is Kidney Holmes in both of those movies?

She's in Broms the Boy, too. But she is not in the Boy. How absurd. She doesn't get it up until Brahms enters. Number 10. 10 of the box office is Dirty Grandpa. Uh-huh. And that's the 10

of the Hail Caesar. And that's that. That's over. February 2016. Yeah. Shirley, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad we made it happen.

It's got to happen again sooner. I'll be back in town. When we get David on a train to L.A. Yay! David is asleep. No, he's just doing the whale again. He's too tired to even do the whale. Shirley, is there anything you want to plug?

Oh, gosh. Kind of a whale. It was like a whale post-heart attack. It was a tiny whale. It's a little whale. It's the dead whale in the film, the shallows. Baby beluga. Anything I want to plug?

Yeah. I don't know. My iPhone in because it needs charging. Thank you. I don't know. I'm still at the Atlantic with David over here. Hell yeah. You know, great to always work with David. Can't believe we're not here. How things have changed over time. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I'm around. Hell yeah. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe. Tune in next week for the Ballad of Buster Scruggs.

That's right. Yes. We don't know who's on that one. No. Probably Buster himself. I think we're very close to booking Buster. but he also has thrown his hat in the ring for League of the Rown. So it's, we don't know which one he's going to end up on. And as always, Shirley, thank you for another totemic episode of this podcast. Wow. Oh, man, I'm honored. Okay, that's a wrap on Shirley.

Great girl. You two have to stay and record ads. Man. All right, gang. I got my quote right. All right. I'd like us to have fun out there. All right.

Thanks, coach. Really bring your true self, feel authentic. Yeah. Okay. I can't, is this your impression of a director? It does feel very soccer, coach. I'm suddenly nervous. I don't know what to tell you.

You need to have big director, Bullhorn energy. All right. Well, listen. I think we should get into it. Yep. All right. And action. Yeah.

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin, Newman, and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKin and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell.

Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to Blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank CheckPot. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.