Blank Check with Griffin & David - Heat with Jon Gabrus

Episode Date: June 16, 2019

Comedian Jon Gabrus joins Griffin and David for an epic conversation on 1995's Cops and Robbers aren't so different movie, Heat. But what did director William Friedkin call Al Pacino in his biography? Is someone reading a metal making book at the bar mysterious? Who is the legendary Craig Castaldo AKA Radio Man? Together they examine the performances of Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro, Dad cinema, the diner scene and more! 

why i have to get mixed up with that bitch? Because she's got a great podcast. Oh, God. I'm sorry for saying bitch to lead off this about a great Ashley Judd performance. God, I'm embarrassed. My life's a disaster zone. Got a stepdaughter so fucked up because her real father's this large type asshole. I got a wife passing each other on the down slope of a marriage. My third because I spend all my time chasing guys like you around the block. That's my podcast.

So we were talking about this. You got to do 50 blinks. That's the only thing. But well, you know, for me, the action is the podcast or the podcast is the juice. Whatever you podcast is. No, but that's the size more. So it's different. But you got to do a lot of blinks.

He does a lot of blinks. For me, the podcast is the truth. You know what?'s Sizemore, so it's different. But you got to do a lot of blinks. He does a lot of blinks. For me, the podcast is the truth. You know what? You're just Pacino, no matter what. There's a line in this movie. It's when his wife has given him the business about missing dinner. An incredible scene. I'm sorry if the chicken got overcooked.

No, but you see, you're even doing too much because what I love about it is it feels like the take where Pacino gave up. But within the movie, it feels like this character is so broken that he can't even commit to saying something quippy. So he starts off with all this entry was like, I'm down there. Triple homicide. So apologies if because of that, the chicken is overcooked. Like he just gives up on trying to be a movie character. 100%. God damn, John.

You want to sit there on the couch, podcast my wife? Ball my wife. I hadn't heard. Ball my wife. That's one that has completely slipped out of the vernacular. Oh, it's still there. Really? Yeah, I'm trash.

Right, exactly. It just slipped down. It's out of the ether, but it's it's still there. Really? Yeah, I'm trash. Right, exactly. It just slipped down. Right, right, right. It's out of the ether, but it's down here in the fucking murk. It's settled into the soil. I'm just saying,

I'm bald. It's weird to say bald my wife. Right. Like, that's the only, like, it's almost weird to say. Well, that's because

Xander Berkeley's bald. So you're like, wait, is this a bald joke? No, he's talking about his balls. Right. Okay. You have to watch it

with SubteleZone. Because I feel like I'm a connoisseur of awful euphemisms for sex. Right. And I love reappropriating them in a postmodern context. Postmodernistic bullshit house. Right. But I just was like, wow, I have let bald.

And maybe it's just my own feeling. I've let bald fall out of my rotation. I don't think it's been there in six years. Also, the predicate, my wife, never pairs well with like, I titty fucked my wife. You know, it's like, it just doesn't sound right. You know who's got a great set of tits? My wife.

Like, it just sounds crazy. I slipped my wife the salami. I laid pipe on my wife. I don't like bald. You don't? I don't like, no. I like how bad it is. It's so bad.

And it doesn't have a flow to it. It stops the sentence cold, no matter where you put it. Let's see if there are any other good Pacino quotes here. In this movie? Are you kidding me? I don't know. Let's go to hour two, minute 56. You can probably find a couple more.

Exactly. You can just spin the globe and put your finger down. Here it is. Here it is. I'm angry. I'm very angry, Ralph. You know, you can just sort of spin the globe and put your finger down. Here it is. I'm angry. I'm very angry, Ralph. You know, you can ball my wife if she wants you to. You can lounge around here on her sofa in her ex-husband's dead tech post-modernistic

bullshit house if you want to, but you do not get to listen to my fucking podcast. He picks up that tiny little television. He picks up the server and he takes the feed with him. I was doing a podcast with David Sims a half an hour ago. When I get the Phoenix, when he starts singing.

Oh, yeah. He's like, I'm wrong. Everything was yesterday. You're wasting my motherfucking time. This is the performance that breaks him, right? Because I feel like people point to Devil's Advocate. Sure. Because they go, that was the last time

he was kind of good. He is still good in Devil's Advocate, but this is him starting to break and it's still entertaining. I think this is him peaking. I think he's cresting here

as Pacino. I think so. But I think he breaks at the top of the mountain. He gets to the top and he starts cracking. Scent of the Woman is the one that breaks the dam,

right? Where he's like, oh, this is allowed? And they're like, here's your dam, right? Where he's like, oh, this is allowed? And they're like, here's your Oscar, sir. And he's like, that was good. That was good.

I'm rewarded. And then like, he still can, he does Carlito's Way the year after that's a quiet, you know, that's not like

an insane performance. It's not super, you know, he has some. Donnie Brass goes after this. Donnie Brass goes after this. The Insider, which is a Yelly performance,

but it's a good one, is after this. Insomnia, obviously is after this. But we both agree goes after this. The Insider, which is a Yelly performance, but it's a good one, is after this. Insomnia, obviously, is after this. But we both agree. Insomnia's his last good performance in a theatrically released film. His only good work after that is HBO. It's on HBO. Yeah, he's all wig killers. He really likes to play

killers that have weird legs. Did you see the Paterno movie? I did not. I couldn't bring myself to support Insomnia. He sits in a chair. It's literally just him sitting in a chair and everyone's like of course, Jack and Jill. There is Duncacino. That's his only other good. Well, that's not a feature film.

It's a great commercial. Exactly. If you broke that out. Yes. But you know, in Paterno he just sits in a chair and everyone's like, what should we do about Paterno? And he's like, I used to be a football coach and just doesn't do anything at all. It's the most boring movie in the world. William Friedkin called Paterno, he just sits in a chair and everyone's like, what should we do about Paterno? And he's like, I used to be a football coach and just doesn't do anything at all. It's the most boring movie in the world. William Friedkin called Pacino in his memoir, he called him a hair actor.

Wow. He said, yeah, he spends an hour doing his hair or whatever. And then Friedkin goes on to tell the story that he would let Pacino tire himself out and always use the fifth take. He'd be like, yeah, go bigger, go bigger, go bigger. And then when he didn't have the gas left, he got the performance on it. This is IMDb trivia, so who knows?

And freaking was in the 80s. Yeah, for sure. Al Pacino had a full facelift before filming began. Now that's just IMDb trivia. No attribution. I do love that idea where he's getting weary in the faces and he's like,

pull it back up. Yeah. I got a movie to make. Al Pacino and my grandmother. Sure. Ruta have weirdly morphed into the same person through similar procedures and hair strategies. Because I think my grandmother's probably around the same height as Pacino.

I say with no disrespect, I'm a little man. But she does the exact same sort of like weird Rod Stewart, let me add six inches of height, but it's like sort of flat ironed into like separate strips. And thinner than it should be. And a similar coloration.

Because she's gone to the same thing as Pacino. Pacino's now kind of like strawberry blonde in these movies. He's somehow salt and pepper and honey. Yeah. Salt and lemon. The most fucked up scene in the entire movie, of course, is a closeup of Pacino kissing his wife.

And that's a crazy. And that looks like kind of two of age lesbians making out. And I didn't hate it. And then it's like when you zoom out and realize it's not like a italian and a greek lesbian kissing it's a shirtless five foot two shirtless man it's also one of those things where you watch this scene you're like right this is the last time you can film this and not get arrested diane venora is roughly she's like 10 years younger than him they're almost age appropriate i mean they're basically age

i don't like any of the relationships in this movie. You don't think this movie depicts healthy relationships? It's just like the throwback of like the 80s of like men gotta work except the work is killing

or stopping killing. And that's Michael Mann, man. I know. It's like my wife, my girlfriend wants me to go to Fiji with her, but I need to kill Wayne Grow. I gotta get the juice.

He does gotta kill Wayne Grow. Wayne I gotta get the juice. He does gotta kill Wayne Groh. Wayne Groh is no good. His biggest sexual release in the movie is saying, look at me to Wayne Groh before he blows him away. Look at me. Look at me. You know, we've said on this, I'm sure we'll continue saying this, but Michael

Mann movies are about, you know, above all else, tough men making tough choices. And there's no tougher choice than do I go on vacation with my- Go to Fiji with your girlfriend. An infinite vacation with a girl who hit on me. Right. She saw, oh, look at this fucking psychopath reading a metal book. So you're 30 years older than me and look like you killed recently in the timeline of this film.

And my reaction to you hitting on me was like, look, lady, what do you want to know about me? And then she's like, oh, sorry. Well, let's give him one more chance. He is old and unattractive. He does not have cutlery in his house. He does live in an Ikea showroom. I like even Val Kilmer in that movie. He's like, dude, you got to get furniture.

I tried to crash in your house. I just sleep on the floor. Yeah. But you know, the good thing is he is completely emotionally vacant. Right. What about that moment of seeing this cold killer in a gray suit at a bar makes you go, oh, I am an artist, a female artist. He's hot.

I'm sorry. I would go for De Niro in this movie. I'd be like, I can crack him open. I'll be the one. Cocky, hot dude. You kind of want him to pay attention to you because he's so cold. You're like, if he gives you...

This is like my father, my wife, all my friends, the people I find the most... You surround yourself with Michael Mann characters. I do because I surround myself with people that I'm like, I don't know if they like me or not. Let me make sure they like me through effort. This, of course,

is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. No, it's quite all right. No, we've started pushing that, the introduction, until the second hour

if we can. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks

to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby! He does baby in this. That's where Gino Lombardi, my character I do on Comedy Bang Bang, I stole. Really? Yeah.

Because I just love baby. I wrote it in a screenplay one time where a shock jock says, you gotta love yourself, baby. And I just took it from Pacino, and I can't stop it. It's so much fun. You are gonna have to share me with the bad people and all the ugly events on the planet. You know what you signed up for

when we got together, baby. Baby. The chicken is overcooked. What do you want me to say? There's a baby in the microwave, baby. I put a baby in the microwave. Oh my God. This, of course, is a ministers

on the films of Michael Mann. That's right. It's called Cast of the Podheekins. Sure. Is that what it's called? I already forgot. A.K.A. Michael Mansplaining. And with us Cast of the Podheekins. Sure. Is that what it's called? I already forgot. A.K.A. Michael Mansplaining.

And with us today, an amazing, amazing guest. Oh, thank you. Someone we wanted to have on for a very long time. Yep. And the schedule's always, whenever you were here, David was away. It's all my fault. Well, I do live on the other coast. Yes.

Yeah. But as he said in his introduction, our guest today is Gino Lombardo. Hey, thanks, asshole. John Gabrus is here. Hey, thanks, asshole. Oh, my characters are thin veils. Close-up action voice. Gino Lombardo is my favorite character in the entire CBB universe.

He said that to me when you weren't here. Yeah, truly. Yeah, he's just a ramped-up version of me. It's an immediate play. Yeah, truly. Yeah, he's just a ramped up version of me. It's an immediate play. Yeah. Yeah. That's the immediate topic cue if Gino's on an episode. Do you know how deep mine and Griffin's history goes?

Go ahead. I was his level one improv teacher. Are you kidding me? I met him when he was, I mean, I still think he's 19, but I think I met you when, how old were you? I think I was truly, no, I think I was 19 or 20. Yeah. I think it was 19.

Always hard to guess with you. Yes. Yes. I think I was a or 20. Always hard to guess with you. I think I was a hard 19. I need you to show me your ID before I blew you, though. Just to confirm. We were equals. And then we cast Griffin in what we thought was going to be a pilot. It ended up being a digital series. A TV show that we filmed at your real childhood home.

My mom's house. Because you said, we're like okay friends. Excuse me. We see each other like once or twice a year. And you're like, you have been to both my childhood home and my mom's house. Because you said like, we're like okay friends. Excuse me. We see each other like once or twice a year and you're like, you have been to both my childhood home

and my home in LA. I don't have any friends that have that couple. Yes, I met your mom. Right. How's his mom? Lovely. Looks a lot like me.

Right. Shorter, slightly less hairy and even more Italian. Kept on bringing food around for the cast and crew but sometimes would do it mid-take.

Also we cast my mom as an extra and she just watched they showed me like playback and she just stared at me and smiled. And she's not supposed to know who I am.

Just so much play. And she's just like oh my god look my son's shooting a movie. But they'd be like roll for room tone and then she'd come in and be like

anyone want Totino's? Like a big platter. Of course I want and be like, anyone want Totino's? Like a big platter. Well, of course I want it. Who doesn't want Totino's? Yeah. You're here, John. Well, thanks for having me. I'm a fan of listening to the podcast. Thank you.

We were saying, you're like the king of podcasts. I love guesting on podcasts. I love listening to podcasts. And I love hosting three different podcasts. The sound you hear is me blowing my head off no but you know when you like see like I I hope this doesn't sound backhanded because it's certainly not the intention right and you are a very skilled actor and a very skilled writer yeah uh but you know when um like like certain stand-ups you were like why haven't I heard of this guy like I'm

seeing him host or I'm seeing him like do an hour at the club and he's like killing and you're like it just doesn't translate. Like he's specifically someone who works in a live comedy club. Right, right.

There's something about what you said like everything you've developed in your life is like perfectly suited to the podcast medium. It was accidentally

pointing to podcasting. I had no idea until the medium until I moved to Los Angeles and was asked to do an episode of Comedy Bang Bang. Right. And I'm like what is like I never even listened to podcast I listened to Los Angeles and was asked to do an episode of comedy bang bang. Right. And I'm like, what is like, I never even listened to pod.

I listened to this American life before then. Cause this would have been 2011 or 2012. So I wasn't even into podcasts. I didn't have a car. I was reading books on the subway, like a grownup. And then I moved to LA and I do a podcast and people are like, wow, you're really good at that. And I'm like, you mean sitting and talking for two hours and purposefully trying to ruin conversation with jokes. And they're like, yeah, that's what podcasting is.

I'm like, well, let me get a slice of this shit. It's like all the stuff you enjoy doing in improv that all your improv teachers told you not to do. Yeah, it's like be yourself, be real, reveal dark truths. Right. It's the best. Steamroll the conversation.

That was the great thing about Gabrus as an improv teacher was he would like sort of do the like i mean look you're not supposed to do that right he wouldn't slap you down because he's like look it's kind of work right you'd be like come on it's funny i laughed yeah well the old joke i used to say like as i got longer into teaching i would say like yeah look you're not supposed to like steamroll like that someone like him he could. Her, she's allowed to steamroll. They're funny. It's like, get out of the way.

Let them be funny. You can't do it because you can't really hold your weight. These guys, these gals, they got it. Get out of their way. They have like a steamroller license. You gave certain people a Warren Beatty pass. Rules don't apply. Rules don't apply for Rules don't apply.

Man, Lily Collins. Lily Collins. That's her name, right? Lily Collins from Rules Don't Apply. She's got those brows. She's in Tolkien. She's got those brows. They play a little version of her, like a younger version. This girl has the craziest... And you see her first.

I was like, Lily Collins is playing the grown up of this whoever it is they put like fake mustaches over her eyes she has grouchos over her eyes it's so good they're like

six inches off her head like an anime cartoon they're Morgan Freeman and Dreamcatcher yeah dyed black it's so good

what a specific oh my god well they're the best eyebrows in cinema Morgan Freeman I'm gonna find him right now I'd say Peter Gallagher in the OC

yeah well that's that's in television he's the record holder I mean his eyebrows are always good now talk about specifics you love action movies love action movies

you love crime movies I love crime movies right I love Michael Mann movies because I I consider myself like the thinking man's meathead

you know what I mean where like I love oh hell yeah. He literally looks like an owl from Winnie the Pooh. What am I, a fucking owl? Who? What am I, a fucking owl? You love action movies.

We knew we were doing Michael Mann. I reached out to you. I was like, you're going to be here anytime. You were like. Yeah, you're like, are you going to be in New York anytime in the next three months? We're doing Michael Mann. And I'm like, yes, I'll be here.

I have one day in between my nephew's christening and a friend's baby shower right and you were like we're available right yeah I mean a I was so like uh happy that the reason you were going to be in the city with a four-hour window was because you were in between like a christening well the most in a baby shower in Long Island I saw Billy Joel on Friday night at the garden so I did the most Long Island weekend you can. Pre-gamed on the railroad. gamers can only do Sunday afternoon.

They're like, is that convenient for him? And I was like, yeah, he's got like christening on Saturday. This is the most action-packed New York trip ever.

And I love getting to say to my wife and the people I'm staying with, I'm like, well, I gotta run Sunday morning to go to work for a little bit. It's like,

scream about movies with friends. But there is that improv. I mean, I feel like you're one of those guys who's like king of the specifics. Like, you're really good at these bit. It's like scream about movies with friends. But there is that improv. I mean, I feel like you're one of those guys who's like king of the specifics. Like you're really good at these pulls. It's one of the reasons I love Gino Lombardo because you were like pulling

just from your reference base from when you were 15. So it's like an infinite well. It's a time travel for me. Right, and you just go hyper specific into like where the parking lot is in relation to the sub shop and like all the stops on like the LIRR.

When you find out people don't hate that yeah okay my favorite thing kills me i think kills me i love that so much but you're also one of those guys where it's just like uh you and i remember you saying this in class where it's like you should learn a little bit about every subject yeah to be good at improv it's you gotta right because it's like if someone brings up the bible in a scene you want to have two bible specifics you can throw out. Or at least recognize that what they're discussing is the Bible. Right, right.

You need to have some base working knowledge. So you're telling me you just told everyone in the UCB to read the Bible? Is that what your class was? That's why I was fired. You were like, fellas, this is called the King James Bible. You're handing them out. I taught a class to a dude who English was his second language.

He spoke Mandarin. And I go, your English is actually very strong. Where'd you that he goes i looked up the i'm not gonna do an accent i looked up the number one selling book in america in english and read it and i'm like what was that book he's like the bible i was like you learned english from the bible that seems insane it seems like the the origin story of a very specific villain right where he's like i only had this one burke to work up and thus i am fully evil right after reading everything in this right i want to take over the world your lessons for him were like look we usually try to yes and not uh shout not well here are the 10 rules of improv you have to teach him a herald on stone tablets.

It's the only way he would learn. Yeah. But I was watching this movie, having known you for a while, being a big fan of your work, and I was like, Michael Mann movies, and this movie in particular, feel like a movie that you crib from a lot whenever you have to do an action or crime scene in any sort of comedy show. Hell yeah. Because the specifics in this thing are so good. The rhythms

of how they talk, the energy of how they talk, it's one of those things that they always teach you in improv where it's like, if you're doing a scene and you recognize that it sort of feels like a cop show, go full steam into it. And I think Michael Mann does that so well where no one says, there's never a moment where

here's the plan right you're just like it's just like they're pros they all know what they're talking about 100 they don't even explain what they say when it's like is it a prowler is it uh through the front door right such a great phrasing of that yes and it's so awesome i have this weird like asmr type reaction it's not like fully like that but i get a sort of physical like sort of tingle whenever movies go this hard into vocabulary that isn't explained to me. That you don't understand. That's my favorite.

It's the fucking best when you're like someone researched the shit out of this and the actors learned it until it sounded like it was nothing. I fucking love lingo. And it's all fucking thrown over the shoulder. I love jargon. I love lingo. I don't care if it's medical. Yeah. I appreciate tactical the most. I love medical lingo. But yes, tactical lingo is good.

Tactical lingo is good. Military lingo. Saying tango down is like one of the best things you can say. There's so much scum lingo. But like this, where like when Wes Studi

like shoots the bottom and top of the door to kick it in, where you're like, why have I never seen anyone do that before? Like, that's so good. What I recognize this time

is that he switches the shells. Yes. Yeah, he puts in the special blue shells, which are scatter shots. That's why he's pumping them, right? Yeah, because he puts it in the elevator, and I'm like, I don't remember. Why are they making such a show of putting the blue shells in? I'm like, oh, that's the scatter door blower.

So if there's someone standing on the side, you don't blow their head off. You don't fucking kill them, right. And Henry Rollins is in there doing weightlifting. Henry Rollins. Henry Rollins in sweatpants. What a great fucking character to just be in the middle of this movie. I would be so honored if I were him. There's so many weird people who show up for one scene.

Oh, Piven? Jeremy Piven. Piven, Dr. Bob. Piven with the hair all the way back. All the way back. All the way down the front of his chest. That's where he pulled from for Ari Gold. He had like a reverse transplant.

He had the opposite where they took hair from the top of his head and transplanted onto the back of his shoulders. 100%. The best place for him. Tom Noonan in a wheelchair talking about microchips or whatever. Early internet. Very early internet.

It's all on there. I love that. It's just out there. The printout on that like perforated Oh oh yeah the dot matrix printer where he's like look at this number here look at oh like it is like the details in michael mann movies are erotic yes yes well this and this is his first no because i guess there's manhunter but manhunter is sort of its own thing it has a lot of the cop stuff right but this is his first like criminal movie since he. I mean since Thief. Yeah.

Right. When Thief is loaded with all that shit too. All these guys talking about, I don't know, drill bits. Gonna pinch ya. Yeah. Pinches. All that. Well like you said like you, this is from IMDb trivia as well, but Michael Mann saying like you took all the guys to meet criminals and like you feel that.

They're soaked. They're steeped in like how they hang out with each other. Because this is one of those movies where it's like, these are not movie cops or movie criminals. Right. Like, he's establishing new stock types now. Right. You know? Yeah.

And we talk a lot about, like, he refers to his own style as, like, stylized realism. Yeah. Because he's like, I'm trying to make everything really real, but also than real life right it's got it's it's it's reality but blue right like kind of a neon blue there's a little jazz into it but i'm also just not like embellishing or creating anything he's like getting all the details right and then he's just throwing like a little stank on it yeah yeah the so much cool shit in this like the detail i one of my favorite details the movie is the rear windshields blowing out on when the shape charge goes off yep that fucking detail is just watching the ripple of those things i'm like that's that

must have been so much time and effort to set up that shot and it's uh one second in a three-hour movie and it fucking lands hard ben asked us recently why movies cost so much, and we were explaining to him, we were like, well, you have to essentially set up... Year three of the podcast about how much movies cost. Almost five, almost five. We've been talking about some of the biggest films ever made. I think we've covered probably half of the highest-budgeted films ever.

Sure. That's our thing. Yes. But he was asking, and we were like, well, it's like you kind of have to, like, found an entire company. Right. Like, you have to create this infrastructure and payroll. Hire all these people. Right, right.

And, like, obviously, like, big people, like, you know, you pay them a crazy amount of money. Or if you have things like CGI or costumes or sets, those are sort of things like that. You can see how somewhat, like, some people can understand. Ben, perhaps. Why do Michael Mann movies cost this much? Like why did he cost like- It cost $60. $60 million, 25 years ago.

No, 100%. Yeah, it cost a fair amount of money. It's an insane- It's on the screen, but you don't see any visual effects. There's no sets. There's no weird- No sets. Part of the answer is-

Not one set. All locations. Is there one weird green screenshot? Yes. Yeah, that's like where they're on the hills. In the hills. That looks like a green screen shot. That's the only thing possibly? I think so. And I wouldn't be

surprised if they were on that actual patio and then put a green screen up around it. Because they wanted the exact shimmery look. I think that is what it was. I think it's because they couldn't get the shot to look right. Right. Because he would not have done it otherwise. No, and that's like you see in that shot. It's the only shot like that in the movie.

You watch that shot and you're like, you see in that shot. It's the only shot like that in the movie. Yeah. You watch that shot and you're like, I totally get why Michael Mann became so obsessed with digital video. Yeah. Because digital video allowed him to get that shot. Right. Like, what he wants is, like, two actors. Crystal clarity. Right.

And, like, just the real light of, like, the city behind them with no artificial lighting around them. So it really looks like night and you see the cars moving behind them. And it was impossible to get that in focus without blowing it out. At the right time. Right, because there's that shot at the beginning of Miami Vice when they're on the rooftop. See, because I was about to say, if you

like lingo, Miami Vice, the only dialogue is lingo. They take everything else out. It's all in the garbage. Miami Vice is one of those movies where I'm like, how does this work? only dialogue is lingo they take everything else out it's all in the garbage miami miami vice is one of those movies where i'm like how does this work and why do i like it so much that's a good call that's a good call like when you on paper you're like oh it's jamie foxx colin farrell doing miami vice a kitschy 80s tv show and then all of a sudden you watch and you're like oh if you just called this movie like we're we're cops versus drug dealers, you'd be like, it's a fucking great movie.

Pros versus pros. Yeah. Right. But it's also like this thing we've talked about where it's like he gets $100 million budgets or what at the time would adjust to $100 million budgets. And big stars. Because he's always like, look, I got two or three massive stars and it's just a simple cops and robbers story. Like he sells them on these like little kid playground terms where it's like, here's my Cowboys and Indians movie. Here's my cop and robbers story. Like he sells them on these like little kid playground terms where it's like here's my Cowboys

and Indians movie. Here's my cop and robber. The Pitch of Heat is the simplest most effective you know like De Niro and Pacino. Cat and Mouse.

Cop. Robber. Like you've never seen them together. Here they are. That's it. And you're like cool it's like a taut 85.

Cool cool. So after the big bank robbery it's over? No there's one more hour. Natalie Portman's gonna try and kill herself she is who's she shut up david you saying that i've seen this movie 40 times possibly yeah i watch it again last night to be as fresh as possible and still moments i'm like oh right natalie portman i totally forgot about that i've seen this movie so many times and i was

like we're wrapped up, right? And then I'm like, no, no. Like there's that coming. And then I forget and I forgot also the other thing that was a surprise or I can't believe I forgot because there is 70 storylines

up in the air in this movie. Because it's a TV show. It's a remake of a TV pilot. It's a TV pilot and so much of it is like, oh, right, that would have been a whole thing. Like the whole Wayne Groh

is also a serial killer thing. Yeah. That's the thing that I also forgot out of the movie when they cut back he's like the grim reaper is here and you know and i was like oh i was like are we in a david lynch movie right is this bob for fucking twin peaks uh sorry carrie what were you gonna say girlfriend no it's it's such a crazy like uh, this is a real sort of relationship between a cop and a thief from the 70s. Yes. That he did insane extensive research into. In Chicago. Right.

In big Chicago. And he wrote it as a film script that was this long. Right. He said at the time of Thief. In 1979, he has like 180 page. Right. He has this movie. He's like, this is the big one.

And he was like, I'd never even attempt to direct it. I wouldn't even know how to pull something of this size off. I want to produce it. I'm very proud of the script. I think it's the best thing I've ever written. I couldn't even touch it. And then at several years later, well,

he asked Walter Hill to make it. He asked Walter Hill to turn it down. Someone else turns it down. I think you're right. But Walter Hill is the one I think of. Walter Hill is the obvious guy in 1979. Right. He's your hard-boiled crime master.

And everyone's like, this is too much. Well, sure, that's the other thing, probably. Walter Hill's like, this thing's way too long. I don't want to fuck with it. Because everyone respected that it was good. Then post-Miami Vice crime story, when he's now become a big power guy in TV, sells it as a pilot.

He directs the hour and a half pilot himself, which I didn't realize he had never directed an episode of Miami Vice, which is kind of nuts because he was such a hands-on executive producer and I was like, I spent too long in the Miami Vice Wikipedia last night, but they were like, he was like the guy who set out the whole color palette

and all these rules. Right, because I was going to say, he's so visually oriented based on all of his movies and even the shows that he wasn't directing. It's crazy that he didn't go like, well, let me direct a couple. And he had directed three features of them. For some reason, he is considered the auteur of Miami Vice. By the studio, even though he never – He set up the whole sort of visual language, what the soundtrack was going to be like, what the plot lines were like.

He wasn't the showrunner, but it sounds like he ostensibly functioned as one. He was the boss. Made a lot of the creative decisions. He was sort of the ultimate guy at the top of the heap. So he's like, maybe I can make this work as that. They shoot it as a 90-minute pilot. They don't like the lead actor. They don't like Scott Plank. Yeah. Oh, I don't even recognize that.

No, of course you don't. Have you seen L.A. Takedown? No, I have not. I watched it in preparation for this. It's bad. That's what I've heard. It's a network pilot, right? Yeah, but it's insane. And you can watch, I advise everyone, go on YouTube, you can watch the coffee shop scene.

It's just on YouTube. The exact same scene has the same dialogue. And it's two actors you've never heard of, and they're terrible. And it's like the ultimate testament to heard of and they're terrible yeah and like it's like it's like the ultimate testament to movie stardom it's just so funny like great directing right it's just funny to say like uh yeah these two no-name actors didn't do as good of a job as the first time on screen at the peak of both of their careers plank and alex macarthur right and it's literally but, it's the same dialogue.

Yeah. Like, there's basically no embellishment. And then did Xander Berkley play Wayne Groh? Xander Berkley is Wayne Groh, which is why Xander Berkley is in this movie. It's a little, like, hat tip. He's the cheater, right? Yes. The baller. He's not a cheater. He's Ralph. But NBC went to Mann, and they were like, well, pick it up

if you recast Scott Plank, and he was like, no go. Which is insane. They were like, we don't know, but you're Michael Mann, we'll pick it up if you recast scott plank and he was like no go which is insane but they were gonna pick it up we don't know but you're michael man we'll do it but scott plank really like make him walk the plank right yeah exactly so then he sits on it for a while to scott plank fuck you but it's crazy what year is la takedown shot i believe it's 89 let me check 89 right and then this movie's 95 yeah Yeah. Yeah. There's like a huge gap, first of all, between Manhunter and Mohicans. In which he's making L.A. Take Down.

Right. Right. Right. And making his other TV shows, doing Crime Story and Miami Vice and all of that. But, you know,

that's right. And then after L.A. Take Down, he moves over to Mohicans. Right. Mohicans is his biggest hit of his career. Right. Still, if you adjust for inflation.

So now he's- Great fucking movie. Amazing movie. But you also go like, here's Daniel Dayiel day lewis who's like so temperamental you know but he got it out of him like these these tough guys respect man he can wrestle a performance out of these guys who are reticent to sign on to movies yeah and he'd also walked into a studio and said like this james fenimore cooper novel it's time time. Like, you know, we can, like, and it, like, was not really the moment where that was a sure sale. Right.

Like, you know, like, we should do an 18th century, you know, period action movie. And he also, like, even in, like, we should side with the Native Americans. Right. Totally. Totally. Yeah. Like, the idea of that premise of just, like, we should be on their side for the movie. Right.

But I think a lot of that is, the key to is he almost always uses – I mean I think Hemsworth is the sort of exception to this because Hemsworth by all accounts is very affable. Yeah. And sort of just a good guy. But he always works with these movie stars who are kind of notoriously difficult. A lot of ego to wrangle. In one way or another and like can steamroll a director. Yeah. I think it's's and he's like

one guy who can fight back with them i'm gonna speak out of turn not being fully informed on michael mann but he seems like he's sort of like enjoys the macho-ness of it where he's like he's like look they're fucking guys you know like let's get him in the room and we'll get it done billion percent david has locked into this notion that he's sort of like an NCAA basketball coach. Right. Yeah. That it's that sort of antagonistic, like, fuck you,

you can't dribble. Yeah, exactly. And also, it's like, this is my system. You're going to do my system. Yeah, I believe. I say, hey, look, I don't care what you did in high school.

You put up 100 baskets in one night? Nah, you're playing my system. Right? You're defense only. Right. What? And some guys like that, I think. I think some stars also just like being sort of you know obviously he commands much respect he's a well-respected

director but macho appreciates macho always you know what i mean like you know alpha to alpha they're like all right well then we're making a fucking heat bro but i think there is a lot of those uh especially male movie stars who have uh difficult egos yeah people tend to think like cool you have to pussyfoot around them. And in fact, the only times they have good relationships with directors are people who are sort of as antagonistic as they are. Because they want that weird, it's like

that weird sort of sports thing. This movie's full of legendary psychopaths. Yeah. John Voight making his first movie in five years? Yeah, because he was like, man was like, I want you to do it. And Jon Voight said no. This is Jon Voight's first wide release film

since Runaway Train. Yeah, crazy. Ten years earlier. And his first film, period, in five years. In five years, yeah. Yeah. And this like relaunches his career. Yeah.

But all these guys, like I heard a very similar thing about like, I worked on, I'll just say this, I worked on the motion picture draft day You did, that's right, absolutely This comes up every once in a while Touchdown! Ivan Reitman, kind of surprisingly, one of these guys

That makes sense Kind of a like, fuck you, I'm the boss here kind of guy And sort of will neg you and is pretty aggro I like alpha comedy guys is like an interesting world He's been around the block. And I was like, I'm very surprised

by his energy. I think he's a very good director. Also, he's Canadian, so you always assume Canadians are polite. But the thing that they said was like, well, how did he make his career? He made his career by him being the guy that Murray wanted to work with, and it was like, that's the one guy Murray responds to. That's the one director. Murray who is like

the De Niro of comedy. Right. When Murray was in his studio comedy days, Reitman was the only guy because like, Remus even, like his best friend, led to a falling out

after both of them made their best film ever. But Reitman was like the one director who apparently with Murray was like, fuck you, you can't act. I think,

right. And Murray would like kill it. I think Mann's other thing too, in so many of these movies, is like, say I'm Sizemore and I'm like, do I thing too, in so many of these movies, is like, say I'm Sizemore, and I'm like, do I have to?

And it's, you know, or like, this is bullshit. And he's like, yeah, well, I have the real career criminal right here.

Hey, come here, Tony. You know, he brings this guy. He's like, yeah, yeah,

I cracked 50 safes. Yeah, that's how we do it. You know, he puts you through the spin cycle of like these, these tough guys. I saw Aronofsky speak

right after the Oscars of the wrestler year where he's like, the campaign's over. I can tell you everything. Mickey's a fucking nightmare. Right, yes, yes. And he just told a bunch of stories where he was like, he's like a six-year-old. He's like a petty child,

and the only way you get a response out of him is to be like the mean softball coach. And I just did that with him all the time. Like I'd pull him aside, and I'd just be like, Mickey, your career's fucking over. No one wanted me to hire you. I'm losing money because you're working on this. If you fuck this up, you're never going to work again.

And he'd be like, I'm done. I did one take. I'm done. I'm tired. And he'd be like, Mickey, this is why they threw you out. They're going to throw you out again. And it was like, it was just that. And Michael Mann has that sort of thing with like,

with these guys, which always gives him a sort of blank check up until a point when these types of films become fully unviable, where it's just like- Which is now. Right, right. But it's like, if you can get Pacino and De Niro in the movie, here's your 60. And he gives it straight to De Niro,

and De Niro's like, cool, I'll call Al. And he was like, Al, you should do this. And Pacino was like, yeah, cool, I'll do this. De Niro basically loved the diner scene. He read the script and he was like, this scene you should do this. And Pacino was like, yeah, cool, I'll do this. De Niro basically loved the diner scene. He read the script and he was like, this scene is magnificent and I want Al. You can sell a pitch on, at that time, you can sell a pitch on and the criminal and the cop

meet. And it's not contentious. It's the middle of the movie. You want a cup of coffee? It'll be a trope forever that cops and criminals are actually really similar. You know, like, you know, it's different. But I think he does it the best first. You know, we have a saying in our family, use sports, don't let sports use you.

Hi, it's Jeff Merrick from 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Are you a sports parent, rep sports, travel sports, whatever you call it? If you're like me, you know that one of the great joys of having your kid or kids play sports is travel. You know, our families use sports to see different parts of the world, meet new people, and stay in a number of different places. Recently, we've started using Airbnb. The kids love it because it feels like a sleepover at a new friend's house, while my wife and I enjoy more space, a proper bed, and mostly a washing machine. That really comes in handy for baseball trips. Trust me. In fact, it was on a baseball trip last summer when my wife sent me a text after the first night saying, do you think we could do this?

Look, if you've ever stayed at an Airbnb, you've probably wondered the same thing. Could our place be an Airbnb? And now that our kids have also discovered the joys of skiing, in addition to travel hockey and travel baseball, we're on the move even more. Well, our house just sits there. Why not make a little extra money to cover some costs

right we have friends who travel south every winter and they airbnb their place why not look if you want to make a little extra cash and who doesn't need that these days maybe your home could be the way to make it happen find out how at airbnb.com but who is this now? There isn't this now. No. I couldn't walk into a thing and I'm getting you Leo and like X movies. Sorry. They're going to, you know,

like there isn't a Pacino De Niro. Right. In order to get Pacino and De Niro in a movie together, they both have to have three separate trilogies that have made billions of dollars and the extended universe. Then we combine these two characters. I mean, the argument is the closest to this is like the

fucking Irishman which I know your argument is he had to go to Netflix to make it but he's also making it the craziest I know I'm saying like what's the pitch of movie stars now who would get you the budget just based on like it's these two huge stars and they're gonna face off I think you're talking about The Rock and Kevin Hart

unfortunately I think that's the two people that you're like, they're going to be in a movie together. No, if you're talking about, yeah, because I'm even trying to think of like, there's something about... Oh, Brad Pitt and Leo Dio being both in Once Upon a Time. That's close enough. But I see that trailer and it doesn't feel like finally. It feels like, oh, it's cool.

There was a point in time where they were saying it was going to have Pitt, DiCaprio, and Cruise. And I was like, if you got all three of them in the movie, that would have blown my mind. I think if you have Cruz and maybe Pitt or Downey Jr., maybe that would be enough.

The other one I was going to throw out is I feel like if you could get Hackman and Nicholson out of retirement, the guys we've all counted out. If you got hackleson that's what it's called but this is the thing you're reaching into the prior generation right that's the thing like that's the thing i don't know you're reaching into the 70s because also

as you said like so much of our uh our culture now is about those mashups it's like brand conscious and it's and also like this movie has a split title card the greatest split yeah stars of all time like you know al pacino robert de niro come up at the same time yeah heat like that's that's how it's the only way you could do this but i think the whole thing is like it used to be like if you were a movie star you made movie star movies right you were the one selling something and occasionally you team up with someone else but it would likely be like scarecrow at the beginning of your career. Yeah, sure, sure. Or it's like Towering in Paradise.

The other person is doing a small part as like a favor or a nod to their friendship or whatever it is. And now Carrie Bradshaw and the dude get Stella Artois together. Right. It's so much about these things crossing over. I think that's maybe the worst thing that's ever happened in culture. That was not so good. And you also need like six movie stars in order to sell a movie, you know? Where it's like the lone guy

surrounded by a bunch of great character actors. Well, right. That's the other thing now too, right? It's like we got Morgan Freeman to play a guy at the desk, like the Marvel approach where they just like flood in any star you can find. That's like Batman Begins

where you're like Freeman's on the bench. Right, exactly. He's the tech guy? Right, right. He's not tech guy? Right, right. He's not Alfred? No, I'm not like that. Just make him Alfred. Michael Caine is Alfred?

No, he kind of has like a second Alfred who only handles tech. And you're like, and that's Freeman? So Alfred 1 is sort of breakfast and chat. And Alfred 2 is all cars and stuff. Right. You're like, Laurence Olivier is balancing his books.

It's kind of how you have like an iPhone charger in every part of your house. It's like, yeah, this is my Alfred for upstairs. Just why not? Yeah, the couch

versus the chair. A lot of those like 90s thrillers and my favorite genre like the Grisham movies. Yeah. They did that too where like,

it's down to like Luis Guzman is the u5 you know what i mean where it's like hoffman hackman cusack vice like uh what's that one called runaway jury right and it's like the jury the 12 actors who are barely in the movie you recognize all of them and that's what this movie is too you're like when azaria shows up or whatever like everyone in this movie is when bubba is a cop like oh it's just so good. Oh, he's so good. Oh my God. Heat.

Okay, so Heat. So he makes LA Takedown. That doesn't go well. He makes Last of the Mohicans. He gets De Niro on board. He gets to make Heat, which is insane. He hires Janice Polly to location scout LA. He's like, find me places in LA that have never been in a movie.

There are four locations in the entire film that have been photographed before. And he says in all these interviews where he's like, LA is underutilized as a location. Because if you're in LA, you go to a soundstage, right? People don't use the city enough. Which I think is maybe less true now because they're all copying heat.

Right. Well, the other thing was now, I mean, the LA tax incentives are so bad compared to everywhere else. People are like, sure, let's go shoot in Atlanta. People kind of only film in LA if they want it to be LA. Whereas at that time, it would be like, well, even if it's taking place in another city, we're going to shoot LA for Washington, D.C.

Predator 2 is LA, but it's shot in LA, but they call it New York. Exactly. Palm Tree and three different scenes. He hires Andy McNabb, who in Britain is like the most famous fucking, he writes all these books called like Soldier of Fortune, or like, you know, First Stop Glory. Yeah, because I grew up in Britain.

Oh, that comes up every once in a while as well. Yeah, yeah. See, you know. See, he remembers. He remembers. I do want to point out, because you said this off mic, you're like, I like the show.

I listen to it. I'm not a completist because I don't listen to episodes of movies I haven't seen. I probably watch more than Nancy Meyers than any other movie. I know, which is crazy. Because I also have seen most of the movies you do, but I want to get it fresh to rewatch. You know what I mean? Or if I know I'm going to do a movie on Action Boys, I'm like, I don't want to hear their take on it.

But I was like, those are like the two pillars of your personality are Michael Mann and Nancy Meyers. It's kind of true, though. I am like, someone called me soft butch. A lesbian called me soft butch. And it fit very well. Yes. I was like, oh yeah, I'm kind of like a male soft butch. Yes.

The thinking man's meathead. That's what I'm saying. I'm like Joe Rogan with feminism. Yes. Woke Rogan. I'm Woke Rogan. Woke Rogan. Maybe you should make a compound and do your Woke Rogan.

High and Mighty is Woke Rogan. It's just people I want to talk to about the shit I want to talk about, maybe you should like make a compound and do your high and mighty is woke rogan it's just people I want to talk to about the shit I want to talk about except instead of like sensory deprivation

tanks it's fast and the furious is that what Joe Rogan talks about biohacking he's like he's pulling from Tim Ferriss

and then also pulling from like these guys are critically thinking outside the box arguably racist thinking. Right, exactly. This guy comes on and he's like, I'm saying something that no one will say.

It turns out there's a reason. Anyway, Joe Rogan is not in this movie. He's the one guy who isn't. News radio, exactly. News radio was on at the time. He could have slipped in there. He could have been like a bank teller. You know who Rogan replaced on news radio, right? I do, and you're going to remind me. That dude's only in the pilot.

Ray Romano. Ray Romano, right. That's Ray Romano? Yeah. I think he actually wasn't even in the pilot. No, he's not in the pilot. I just watched it for- Right.

I think he played the part. They fired him. They got someone else for the pilot and then replaced him a third time with Rogan. That's crazy. But Romano made it to the table. Which is nuts because Rogan isn't that funny in news. He's fine. Rogan's probably the least interesting person on news radio.

He's the one guy in the cast where you're like, this guy doesn't have a comedy background, right? Yeah, he's the only one with one. That's what's crazy. He's the only stand-up in the cast. So this guy, he came from what? He's like Tony Danza. They pulled him from a boxing gym.

I just watched the pilot. And the redhead Lily, I forget her name. Why am I forgetting her name now, too? Jesus Christ, guys. Vicky Lewis. She kills it the most. Yes. She's the funniest.

And I'm like, this show's not even that funny. The pilot, it's like work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heat. Heat. Andy McDowell. Oh, yeah, right. He teaches them all how to use automatic weapons.

Val Kilmer's reload during the bank robbery is still shown to people as the perfect way to reload a carbine rifle, which he talks about all the time and is so proud of. It's one of his proud things. Yes.

Schwarzenegger also got, when he did T2, he got Soldier of Fortune magazine. They labeled him as like Hollywood's best gun user or whatever. And I'm like, what a weird corner

of the world to have. Val Kilmer's casting in this is so weird well Keanu Reeves was going to play this role which kind of makes more sense makes so much sense he'd be great in it

and he's sort of on the rise at this point where it's like point break has already come out he's a leading man but it makes sense that he would play

third to two luminaries whereas Val is kind of like a little too big to be playing this part but the other element is that he's already established a reputation as being too difficult to work with. I mean, Tombstone is 93, which is the moment where

everyone's like, yeah, for real, kill me forever. I mean, obviously he has Top Gun in the doors. That's his piece. He's been around for so long. But now he's getting a little haggard. But then, of course, in the summer this year, he had Batman Forever. Which I'm sure he filmed this before batman forever came out uh probably but he is still gonna be batman right like so yeah it's a little wild to put him in i mean he gets he's on the poster he

is he's the third much lower than he is playing a role that you're pumped to see him play too where it's like Val Kilmer being quiet is so, he, you realize how intense of a person he is when he's not, because he doesn't, he does so little in this movie.

So little. And then when you see him, like when he's doing, even on the small thing when he's drilling and he's like, let's go, it's off. He's like,

I'm almost in. Just the look on his face, he's been like a, the character's been like alone drilling for like eight minutes and Val Kilmer brings so much weird background intensity to everything. For me, the sunrises and sets with her man is like all you need him to do,

but that's worth like $1 million. Right. He's also, he's so scuzzy looking in this movie. And I love that on the poster, they find a way to take the one screenshot where from an angle, he looks kind of looks conventionally Val Kilmer. Joanna was like, what's going on with him? And and i'm like this is the same year as batman in which he's very like angular and handsome you know like he's chiseled in batman

and this he's like puffy like pills and alcohol he's got the bags under his eyes they give him the weird scar he's kind of constantly doing this lip furl yes like the ponytail is like ratty and not sexy and it's so cool which i i love all of this because like why. Yes. Like the ponytail is like ratty and not sexy. And it's so cool. Which I love all of this because like, why is Wayne growing the crew? Right. He's a disaster. Right.

But like Val Kilmer is the guy where you're like, yes, if he walked into a casino, someone would immediately alert security, like keep an eye on that guy. Yeah. But he's a pro. He is fine.

You know, like De Niro trusts him implicitly. I think you, the role of Val Kilmer plays in The Crew is he's the killer. Yes. He's capable of, he's the best shot. He's like your point, man. And it's such a great...

He's Joseph Gordon-Levitt in Inception. Only I know the exact weight of this loaded dime. Right? I mean, Christopher Nolan has spent his entire career remaking this movie over and over again and like that is why I like that's why I like Nolan

of course yeah watching this we're gonna say the guy how do you say the guy's name who directed Drive Nicholas Wending yeah he also is sort

of doing like the music video version of Michael Mann stuff and I eat it up because it's even a pale reflection of man is delicious. There are points in this movie where it feels like watching it. You're like, Oh,

dark night is a literal remake of this. This is like magnificent seven to seven samurai where it's like, what if we transpose this into a different genre? But there's so many sequences in it where it's just like, you know, the other guy who's obsessed with this movie and he says he references it in every one of his films and that there are specific lines and shots that he takes from this film and uses in all of his films. Wes Anderson.

Wes Anderson is like I always pull from Heat. Because Wes Anderson has that thing where he's like I like people who are taking whatever they're doing very seriously. His movies almost always have some weird heist element. Yes. Yeah. There's almost always some break in, break out. There's always something that needs to go down. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There's almost always some break in, break out. There's always something that needs to go down. Right.

Yeah. There's a crew. A big music change. Right. For like a weird. Right. But he's kind of doing twee heat. Tweet.

Yeah. Imagine like Sizemore showing up in a Wes Anderson movie. Oh my God. Sizemore and Angelica Houston in a scene. If he like, if Sizemore was in a Houston in the scene together. If he like, if Sizemore was in a Wes Anderson movie and he like shoved someone they would like fly

against the wall because everyone in Wes Anderson movies is like so light and weightless. Right, and he'd have like a Poirot mustache.

Oh boy. But he's, I saw him do a talk once and he was like, they were like, what are your big influences? And they were like, obviously,

and they like named the things that they guessed. Obviously Hal Ashby and he's like, also he. He's like, I pull from the heat and no one ever calls me out on it and i'm like direct lifting shit from heat i was having coffee with max fisher what is their he thought it was right in the play where's that that that concrete grill in their

office what is that thing it's so cool office? What is that thing? It's so cool. Outside the parking lot? Yes. That thing looks so dope and this is the first time I noticed it in the movie. I was like, holy shit,

that's such a cool shot. That like abandoned, the abandoned drive-in theater that they do the meet in, that thing is so cool. Some of these locations are incredible. Yeah,

they're incredible and it is like, it's one of those things where you go like, do you not understand that movies are more interesting if you just put the little extra effort into doing things that other movies haven't done? Right. You know? Right.

Like when I get so tired when like obviously this is a movie about crime. Crime. It makes sense. It's in the plot. But when I see movies that aren't about the characters' professions where the characters have the same four professions and I'm like if you just pick a job that has never been in a movie before and you devote one scene to the intricacies of their job, your movie becomes 10% more interesting. Right. It just, it stands out.

Right. And like simultaneously, like the fact that this movie, Pacino's crew is like Wes Studdy and Michael T. Williamson. And like all these movies where it's like you have the six. Is that how you say his name? I think it is Michael T Michael T. Williamson but Michael T. is one word

yes which I love that confused me so I was like I guess I don't know how to say his name it's not like Mikkel T

it's Michael T it's Michael T but like all those guys it's like you're like oh this is like the practical argument aside from like the fact

that like representation matters and the industry has a horrible history of like stereotyping actors into roles and this and that you're like, the film becomes a lot more interesting if the five guys on the cop team don't look the same. Right.

So many movies like this, it's like four 40 something characters. It's just agents from the matrix. Right. Right. You know, it's just like, and they're like anonymous.

And in this, you're like all these guys that have like very different looks, very different styles, very different speaking patterns. That's Los Angeles though. Also, that's what makes it even cooler. And in this, you're like, all these guys have like very different looks, very different styles, very different speaking patterns. That's Los Angeles. Right. Also, that's what makes it even cooler. And LA, and that's, I think, also a little nod to that's how similar criminals and cops

are. Yes. Is that right? You have two paths. They're both blue collar jobs where your life is on the line. That consume your entire life. Yeah. And it's like, whether you're Latino, black, Native American, possibly is one of the cops

natively. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, we all, we, this is Native American possibly is one of the cops. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, we all, this is the job we chose. And it makes it so fucking, no women on either team. No, no, no. Miami Vice changes that.

Miami Vice, half the team is ladies. Oh, right, right, right. Because you got Naomi Harris. You got the, well, we'll get to Miami. Yeah. We'll talk about Miami. Can't wait to listen. Hell yeah.

No, it's just like it makes everything more interesting in the same way that this movie's obsession with a lot of the little procedural things or the details or the equipment. Also bumping it down to just the most basic shit ever. If you're watching a movie for the first time, having your characters look different really helps you keep track of them.

Huge. It's massive. Just to jump back to news radio for a second, watching the pilot. Of course, of course, of course. Cast, eight lead cast members yeah you don't get to a person of color ever well there's candy alexander but she's not in the pilot either yeah which is like you're watching you're like okay my favorite thing and i just did this again and i do it all the time just look it up melrose place opening titles super cut in which someone has taken every actor who's ever

in Melrose Place's opening titles, cut them all in together, right? There's one black person. It's like 45 white people and one black person. And like if they did that now it just wouldn't happen. Even like lazy prejudice studios would be like, oh, wait a second.

The race shows off on this one. What's going on? It's not going to be 45 to 1. 25 to 1 is what we discussed. And it's truly mind-boggling. But it's one of those things where it's just like, aside from the fact that it's a good thing to do morally, it does make your movie easier to follow, especially

in a film like this where no one's like, you know me, my backstory. Exactly. No one ever shows up and is like, right, I hate criminals because my mom was no no they're just professionals the other white guy on the team is ted levine the man with the world's whitest mustache distinctive voice with the greatest voice you're not gonna mix up anyone on this team who was supposed to play i think the seismor role he was supposed to play one of the criminals yeah maybe wayne grow Groh. No, he was supposed to play Wayne Groh.

Which is obvious. He had been playing criminals. And he was like, I can't. Right. I can't play another psycho. And then he becomes like a movie and TV cop. Like this sort of creates

a new path for him. I love him. So cool. He's great in this. He's so great. He has the perfect look. Yeah, it's really sad that he dies. The movie does a very good job

of making you support, like which is a very difficult thing to do you're like on both of their sides for almost the whole movie this is the magic of this movie yeah you're like i don't even know who i want to win and then at the end when he uh when they when they give when they dap up you're like i wanted deniro to win that's when the only he couldn't win but it feels so like justin poetic you're like right this was the only way he could go right but he at least he got wayne grow and fic oh fickner oh yeah um all right so the first thing is the the the armored car robbery right which rules yeah well the first thing is a

shot of trains at which point i'm like my oscars are like already being handed to michael man i also that's what he means when he says, uh, that part of this movie has never been filmed before in Los Angeles. Like showing a train in Los Angeles is an insane yard. And he's still yet to make the definitive LA subway system movie, which is collateral. Yes,

exactly. Oh, collateral is the one movie that's like the LA subway system is important. It's like the last third of the movie. Right. Right. Like they talk about the subway. Yes.

And like, I literally have watched collateral 1 billion times with so many people and multiple people have been like, LA has a subway. Like when they watch it, truly that was my first, because I would go to LA after that movie came out and I was like, where are the subway subs?

And they were like, I don't think we have a subway. I'm like, I've seen collateral. Michael Mann doesn't make shit up well Michael Mann like you wouldn't put it past him to build a subway system in the last six years since moving to LA re-watching a lot

of movies that feature LA I'm like it really gives me like re-watching Heat having now lived in LA really also I never lived in the LA of Heat like you know what I mean which is so wild but then also like all the other things when you watch these movies, you're like, oh, Beverly Hills Cop. I see.

Oh, I know what validate parking means now, which I laughed at for 10 years. I just knew that it was a joke you said in a thing. At the end of a thing, you go, can you validate? And I never knew what that meant. Me neither. Oh, my God. And they cut away, and you're like, what? They tell them his parking was good?

What do they mean, validate parking? Great job. Let me take a look at this. Yeah. Oh my God. And they cut away and you're like, what, they tell him his parking was good? What do they mean validate parking? Let me take a look at this. Yeah. You nailed it. I remember a thing I was going to say earlier. Ben asking about why movies cost so much money.

Oh yeah. The thing with Michael Mann movies, aside from the fact that they are long, that he takes a long time to shoot, that he moves slowly, that he develops for a very long time,

that he mostly films at night, which is even harder to do on real locations. Which sometimes makes it only on the weekends. Right. Yeah. But you saying like stuff about like when the windshield goes out, the wipers or stuff like that, you just get the sense that Michael Mann, and we've heard stories this effect, is like cool. So there's one shot in which someone shoots a shotgun towards a car. Let's do 17 tests.

Like you just imagine they're spending months in pre-production doing like ballistics tests because he wants to know exactly what the physics of the thing working are. They built an entire staging area for the big robbery shootout on 5th Street. They knew

they couldn't rehearse on 5th Street so they replicated it out in the wilderness somewhere so that everyone could learn all their marks for all the cover that they have to do all that. They were treating it like a musical where people had to like learn their choreography. A hundred percent. Every take they would fire a thousand rounds for that. Yeah.

Basically. That's so awesome. That's unreal. That makes me so excited. I am so anti-gun except for movies. Me too. It's horrible. But he put microphones all over LA so he could capture the bullet rounds rather than put

them in afterwards. It's why the bullet rounds in this sound insane. Well, isn't he, like, that's kind of what he's famous for, is like not having music underneath gunfire either. Right. Like in Public Enemies, like the music cuts out whenever there's a gunfire because then you just hear the pop pop. And it makes it stressful.

It's very rattling. And especially watching on my iPhone with noise cancelers last night which is the best way to watch a Michael Mann movie. Michael Mann just cheered to hear you say that. Mike, it was my 50th viewing. It's okay. I watched this movie on my Nintendo 3DS

with earbuds from the airplane. The free Delta earbuds. They're not even earbuds. It's the little, the metal. They have the two headphone plugs. So I only used one of them. I was only getting the sound in one ear. If you like touch the little cord, the sound goes out.

You have to arrange it. You have to keep your finger right on it. But the gunfire noise stressed me out. And I never felt that experience. The noise cancelers. But that's also especially of this era and with things like Miami Vice and also what like Catherine Bigelow is doing at this time. When people are like, oh, God, they're like sort of glamorizing gun violence. They make it look so cool even if it's the good guys doing it.

And Michael Mann, there's like so much of guys walking around in like really good jackets. Incredible jackets. With awesome music playing with like ultimate confidence and you're like this is fucking cool are they gonna make this like too sexy and then every time everyone shoots a gun you're like oh no this is like upsetting. Yes. Yeah. This is a piece of machinery that is

complicated. Right. Yes this is fucking scary. And it's like too like hot and loud and heavy and like powerful and that big we'll go through the we'll start the plot in powerful. And that big, we'll go through the, we'll start the plot in a second, but that big shootout in the middle when there's so much distance between them

and he's shooting it from behind their shoulders and you're like, they're shooting at ants in their perspective. You're like, that's what a shootout like this must actually feel like. And that's terrifying. It's terrifying. And also, the criminals in the big shootout, they're just firing their weapons

automatically. The old crayon spray. Whereas the cops have their weapons on semi-automatic. They're trying not to just shoot anything. So they're like, pop, pop, pop. He says, like, watch your lines. Exactly. You don't want someone returning fire at you with civilians behind you or you shooting

through someone who is a civilian. But the differences of the rhythms is, like, unsettling. It puts you on edge. It's very unsettling. It puts you on edge. It's very unsettling. Pop, pop, pop. I will say if you can see this film in a theater anytime

it's doing a rep screening or whatever it's very worth it because it's very loud. It's very good to see this movie as loud as possible. I tried to see it

at a rep screening when I was in Paris last year where they were just constantly they have this rep district repertory of one small. But the Latin Quarter where they're just like constantly they have this rep district yeah they do the Latin Quarter

yes it's like mostly like rep theaters and I was like oh my god Heat's playing and it's not like rep theaters here in LA where it's like a one week run of this it's like tonight we're doing this movie and so I was like oh awesome I get to see Heat and I got to the theater and they were like yes he did not arrive

no Heat Michael did not arrive. No Heat, Michael did not bring. Right. So it's just like, you get to watch Serpico now. Not her, I was like, I like Serpico, but I just loved that it was just like, yes. So they were just like, find whatever Pacino movies in the attic. They were just like, dig through the reels.

They told us it would arrive in the mail by today. No, no, no. Oh, it's a strike. What can I say? But it has a different, the mail by today. No, no, no. Oh, it's a strike. What can I say? But it has a different, the title of Heat. It's not Chauffeur or whatever,

like whatever the French word for Heat is. No, no. Let's find out. Caps and Rebels. Yeah, but I'll say, I've never seen it in a theater. Bobby and Al. It's just transparent marketing.

I've never seen it in a theater and I realized watching it last night that I've never seen it in a theater and I realized watching it last night that I had never seen it in that sort of structured of a I am watching Heat from beginning to end not on television in the proper aspect ratio without commercial breaks or edits

it's one of those movies where I had seen it in so many pieces that I felt like I had seen it and I had never sat down and just watched three hours of Heat as Michael Mann intended. It was on Netflix like six months ago. So many times. I did it twice on that because I was just like, oh, it's here. I watch Heat all the time. I own it, but I buried my DVDs.

I watch the first half hour a lot. I love basically the robbery, you know, the car robbery, Wayne Gross shooting the guy, all that shit, and then Pacino coming in and explaining what just happened. And like, if you just watch that for half an hour, it's better than anything.

You're a hundred percent right. And we talk about how they don't explain anything. Run slick. You'll get the phone book. Do it anyway. Like all that stuff. Yeah. It's such great business.

And he also retroactively explains how everything went down. Exactly. When he's like, he's like, these guys are ready to rock and roll that's like the best line ready to rock and roll at the drop of a hat like they knew they had the murder charge so kill everybody like that that's something i didn't pick up on when they do it and then he explains it it's like and then when you rewatch it and there's that thing where like kilmer looks at de niro and de niro's like okay yeah and the masks make it like you don't know who's who really.

Which is totally what he's pulling from the beginning of The Dark Knight. It's got that exact same energy. The bank looks like the bank from The Dark Knight. He casts Fickner. He acknowledges his hat tip. Fickner's playing the same

character. He's like the mobster white collar guy. We've litigated this on the podcast before but it is disappointing that like it felt like what Nolan was setting up with the Dark Knight trilogy is each movie I'm going to mash up Batman with a different film right right like the first one is like him doing his weird like Lawrence of Arabia like David Lean kind of movie. And the second one is him doing his Michael Mann Heat film. And then the third one is The Dark Knight 2. Yeah. The third one he was like, I don't know.

The third one is like The Negotiator. The League of Shadows came back, I guess. It's a movie where they shut Manhattan down with Sam Jackson. There's like a terrorist. Yeah, that's The Negotiator. I wonder what. No, no. Negotiator is the one with Kevin Spacey.

Not Die Hard with a Vengeance. Not Die Hard with a Vengeance. Not Die Hard with a Vengeance. It's the one where they... Oh, fuck. It'll come to me. There are a lot of Sam Jackman movies with similar plot lines. But this one's like

there's like a terrorist and they're like not sure. Is this The Siege? The Siege. The Siege is his mashup for the third one. Is it Annette Bening in The Siege?

Annette Bening. That's like her one big action movie. She wears a hijab. Yeah, that movie's like a little problematic. And isn't Bruce Willis in it for like two scenes?

Is he? I think he is. Yeah, I think he's like one of the generals that kind of like gets like a power candle. But I think it's like a Steven Seagal

executive decision. No, he isn't. Of course. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was on the poster. Right. But like small.

Yes. That's a weird movie. That's a pre-9-11 Manhattan terrorism movie that like now you watch and you're like, oh, right, this is bizarre. Right, right. Yes. That's a weird movie. That's a pre nine 11. Yeah. Manhattan terrorism movie. Yeah. Like now you got everything wrong. Oh, right.

This is our right. Right. Uh, anyway, Pacino, he, all right. So they robbed it.

Yeah. They get the bear bonds. They do all their shit. Yeah. Chino comes in and we see, we see like little tastes of like De Niro casually stealing an ambulance. Val Kilmer buying something weird and they never like explain it. And you just see all these people in different places.

You see, Wayne Groh getting in with the car with Sizemore. Sizemore's like, stop talking please. Like not interested in a conversation. Yeah, I love that.

About to rob a armored car. And here's a massive thing that Nolan pulls. These movies being about confidence in every sense of the word that it's like, these are people who know what they're doing

and don't need to show off. Right. And Pacino's line where he's like, pop the guy because they could. You know? Whatever the line is where he's explaining why they shot the dude. And he's like, they knew it didn't matter at that point. What's their M.O.?

They're the best. Yes, the M.O. is that they're good. Right. Once it escalated to murder one beef. Yeah, they didn't hesitate. Right. What difference does it make? Drop of a hat, these guys will rock and roll. Such a dream line.

Which means they're so scary. You know what I mean? They're not evil, but they will kill you. I wish, not in this context, but someone said that about me one time. Drop of a hat, you'll rock and roll? Griffin Newman, drop of a hat, he'll rock and roll. Okay. Noting it down. Sit patiently. Drop of a hat, you'll rock and roll? Griffin Newman, drop of a hat, he'll rock and roll. Okay. Sit patiently.

Drop of a hat, Griffin Newman, will eagles. Soft rock. No, I just like the idea of someone saying, like, drop of a hat, Griffin Newman will rock and roll, and that's why I'm recommending him as a babysitter for your toddler. You know, we have a saying in our family, use sports, don't let sports use you. Hi, it's Jeff Merrick from 32 Thoughts to Podcast. Are you a sports parent, rep sports, travel sports, whatever you call it? If you're like me, you know that one of the great joys of having your kid or kids play

sports is travel. You know, our families use sports to see different parts of the world, meet new people, and stay in a number of different places. Recently, we've started using Airbnb. The kids love it because it feels like a sleepover at a new friend's house,

while my wife and I enjoy more space, a proper bed, and mostly a washing machine. That really comes in handy for baseball trips. Trust me. In fact, it was on a baseball trip last summer when my wife sent me a text after the first night saying, do you think we could do this? Look, if you've ever stayed at an Airbnb, you've probably wondered the same thing. Could our place be an Airbnb? And now that our kids have also discovered the joys of skiing, in addition to travel hockey and travel baseball, we're on the

move even more. Well, our house just sits there. Why not make a little extra money to cover some costs, right? We have friends who travel south every winter and they Airbnb their place. Why not? Look, if you want to make a little extra cash, and who doesn't need that these days, maybe your home could be the way to make it happen. Find out how at Airbnb.com. So they're going to kill Wayne Grow. They don't like that.

They smash his head against the diner. Sizemore looks at someone. If Sizemore looked at me like that in a diner, I would leave the diner and the city probably. Sizemore moving from the bench to the a diner, I would leave the diner. Yeah. And the city probably. Right? Sizemore moving from the bench to the counter is enough for me to shit a brick. Exactly. And he's like,

he's a fucking, he's like a throwback Hollywood actor in that he's six foot, four to six foot nine, 200 to 400 pounds. Right, yes. But manages to be like a hot leading man somehow. During the surveillance scene,

they're like, which one is Sizemore? And the guy says, the wide one. And that is very accurate. But also weird is that like Michael Mann is like responsible for like, you know, kind of pushing Danny Trejo's career along,

discovering Farina as like an ex cop. Like these guys who came from real like criminal or like law enforcement backgrounds and making them into actors and giving them big speaking roles. And you're like, so what? I mean, as like an ex-cop. Like these guys who came from real like criminal or like law enforcement backgrounds and making them into actors and giving them big speaking roles and you're like, so what?

I mean, Sizemore must be one of these guys who they like got as like for a technical consultant. And they were like,

okay, you can join us. this guy comes from an acting background? Yeah, Trejo is a criminal turned actor and Sizemore is an actor

turned criminal. One thousand percent. Right, but you're like, Sizemore, an actor turned criminal. One thousand percent. Right. But you're like Sizemore, they must've like got out of like scared straight. Right. And they were like, this guy popped on camera and they're like,

no, he went to like, I don't like Northwestern drama school. He's making the, the George Clooney peacemaker hair looks like that. He's making that look tough. Right. The weird tight Caesar.

With the speckle of pepper. Whereas Trejo is literally playing Trejo. His name is Trejo. Let's not even fuck around. This was the first time someone had written a real role for him. Is that right? I guess he started doing the Rodriguez movies. The Rodriguez movies.

I mean, the greatest face in cinema. I really think so. He lends instant credibility because you're like, yep, I know people that greatest face in cinema. I really think so. He lends instant credibility. You're like, yep, I know people that look like that exist. But I haven't seen one in a Hollywood movie in a long time. This guy has lived. Desperado is the same year. And he obviously before that, he's been in a million things,

but it's all like prisoner, you know, tough prisoner. Prisoner who's tough. Angry client. Up until this point, he was like... Prison inmate. You would cast him just for verisimilitude. You wouldn't actually let him act. His death scene in this is incredible.

It affected me. I forgot how... It's so real. When he says, where's Anna? She's dead. He makes that crying noise. Also, you talk about how much character

his face has. Getting some blood in the crevices of that face. Jesus. Holy shit. It's like the Martian landscape. The blood dripping into the like,

it's like the beginning of Hellboy where they pour the blood into the ground and it like makes the like, it resurrects. But you imagine like Napsa played too.

So like releasing photos of his face where they're like, and here's where the canal systems, you know what I mean? I'm just realizing that's one of Guillermo's big moves is pour the blood into the labyrinth. The etchings in the stone. They also rip it off in the X-Men with Apocalypse, which is the one terrible one that was. I wonder if he got it from watching this.

He's like Trejo's face I had a nightmare about blood in Trejo's face oh you look like a monster so Wayne Grew

gets away I love they pop the trunk and it's lined with garbage it's so dope I don't know how Wayne Grew

gets away but whatever it doesn't matter Wayne Grew's a little there's a couple of major plot point like weird anomalies in this movie

for a movie that's airtight everywhere else, but I lend it to man's love of reality where it's like, you know, sometimes you accidentally do kill the serial killer.

Sure. Sometimes a guy just gets away. Sometimes the word slick ends up undoing everything. Right. Which is true. It's a stupid common thing, but I think that's like a cop

thing. I'm sure every cop will say I got so lucky when I caught that guy. Did you guys watch Bosh? The Amazon show Bosh? No. It's four dads by dads. You do? Of course you do. I mean, I'm all for Bosh. Great movie. Great show. But the most recent season wraps up with

an accidental solving of something that was like four seasons long. Titus Williver should be in a Michael Mann movie. Has he never been in one? I don't know. Michael Mann doesn't make enough movies. You know what I mean? Well, yeah.

It takes 280 shoot days. You can only get a couple. I'm kind of surprised that Titus Williver isn't in this. You imagine that he'd be part of a SWAT team or something. He would be a great fit in this. Can I tell you, there's the posters we had for season one of the tech, the individual character posters,

are all like each of us standing on like a rooftop, and then you see like City Skyline behind it, and I had to sign a bunch of them for like giveaways once, and the Amazon PR people were like, you ever look in the windows? And I was like, no, what do you mean? And so I looked into the windows of the

backdrop, right? Of these city buildings. And Bosch is just in a bunch of them. And they were like, we want to not just have it be like a yellow square of like the lights on. But you don't want to have to license Oh, that's funny, so it's a bunch of little Bosches.

So it's like there's a bunch of But then like the perspective is totally off because it's like Bosh's head the size of the window. Yeah, right. It's like he's sitting at the window like this looking. But it's like a little screen grabber like Bosh. Arthur's getting his photo taken on the roof across the way. But there are like four Boshes. If you ever come across one of those full-size posters and you look in really closely, it's just Bosh being like, I'll be there in five.

Bosh will be there in five. Yeah. Right. And he will walk out in 30 seconds if the heater's around the corner. I don't know.

Bosh will date a woman 20 years younger than him. Bosh moves. Also, Bosh's age is very confusing in the show because he's like a Gulf War vet

or Afghanistan vet and he's either 50 or 30. He's either been a cop for a year or 20 years. They don't want to change the specifics from the books. The books is Vietnam, which is the real. They can't do that or else he'd be 80. He just should be. He should be like, yeah, I served in Vietnam.

You did? And they show flashbacks, and they don't make them down or anything. It's really funny to flashback 20 years and see titus well over as titus well over titus has never been in a man nope wow it's rude honestly i think that's rude right but he's not in black hat is outrageous yeah come on black hat you could put a few more people they should do black hat too oh man i mean he was the man in black he was the man in black on Lost. He was the man in black. He didn't have a hat though.

I have a question. So this is a dad movie, right? Is that a dying kind of genre? Well, it's television. TV is for dad. Bosh is for dad. Anything like that now is just a TV show.

Liam Neeson, I think, was our last dad movie guy too because all his movies are like, I may be old, but I'm street smart. Yeah, those are dad movies. That's what my dad said until he died. The dad core.

Right. Yeah. And it was always just sort of a tough, broken man. Like, they're a more high concept, but they don't dip into sci-fi. So it is just that kind of like, I have no other choice. Right. Yeah. And Bruce Willis, like, kicked that all off.

Like, you know, he's always just like, oh, I'm just a guy. Yeah, I'm a cop, but I shouldn't be choice. Right. Yeah. And Bruce Willis, I kicked that all off. Like, you know, he's always just like, Oh, I'm, I'm just a guy. Yeah. I'm a cop,

but I shouldn't be here. Right. But because I'm tough and curse and I know how to talk to people like, and that's what dads love to hear. The dads love to hear, I don't have to do any work, but I could be considered a hero because I'm around kids. So I'm like stronger than them and smarter than them.

So I have this alpha feeling. I remember Mark Wahlberg when Broken City came out which is like a movie that doesn't really exist. He's in the dad zone though right? Yeah. I had had like four or five big hits in a row and I was like this is the kind of movie I actually like. Sure. Like he without

saying it kind of said I don't like the movies I star in. I think they're for pussies. I like a movie about a tough man in a tough city. Could you imagine Wahl Could you imagine the Wahlberg brothers hanging out watching Transformers? Right, exactly. What do you think Starr screams up to, Donnie? Yeah. Who's with Wiki? Yeah. You're right.

Yeah, because Broken City, I've never seen, but it's trying to be like a Pakula movie. It's like a city corruption. Right, but he's like, yeah, you know, my dad doesn't really like the movies I'm in. I made this one for him, even though he's dead now. I gotta pee. You guys keep talking. Costner, too. Costner's a great dad movie. Costner's now gone

back to TV again, sort of. I just watched The Highwaymen on Netflix, which is him and Harrelson. Full of bullets, boy. Yeah, but that's peak dad. Their dad's in that movie, too. Hardcore older men. Like, oh, you don't know about wiretaps? Triple Frontier. Hardcore, older men. Like, oh, you don't, they don't know about wiretaps. What?

Triple Frontier. David loves Triple Frontier. Yeah. I mean, all this, Netflix is the only place. Literally, it's about Ben Affleck's fatherhood

getting in the way of them being badasses. That's David's read on it. Yeah. It's really funny. I love Triple Frontier. I still haven't watched it. JC Chantor can shoot the shit out of landscape shots.

Like, it's beautiful. And then he pulled, and then it's a movie with guns, but also cool wide shots. He feels like a guy who would have had a very different career 20 years ago if the movies he wanted to make were still getting made. Right. He would make these awesome cowboy movies with, like,

giant, beautiful fucking landscape shots and shit like that. Right, right. What else has he done besides All Is Lost and Triple Frontier? He did Most Filing Year. Oh, yeah. I else has he done besides All Is Lost and Triple Frontier? He did Most Valiant Year. Oh, yeah. I love that movie, too. And Margin Call. Oh, I've never seen that.

Margin Call is good. Margin Call is one of those movies. That's the political one, right? It's the economy collapsing. Oh, okay. I skip anything where it's like, it's based on real bullshit. I put it off forever

and then finally watched the screener and I was like, this thing fucking slaps. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. See I'm thinking about Dunkirk right as like a more recent dad movie. Yeah. But I think what's so unique about man is that it's like

it's just this unique intelligence to this kind of filmmaking that you don't have anymore. It's because it's taken over now by like the like twisted Zack Snyder boys. Everything's got to be edgelord stuff. It's unfortunate.

It's unapologetically manly, but it is at the same time trying to be a beautiful movie. Right, and if you compare this- Not a lot of people are trying to make a gorgeous movie about men being- Are we talking about heat? Yeah. Yeah, this ends with them holding hands. That's the thing. If it didn't end with them

holding hands and saying goodbye to each other, you'd be like, right, it's about tough guys and they shoot each other. The other scene that I think really kind of crystallizes

what man is into is Pacino and his wife at the hospital and she's like, you know what, I'm going to take you back and he's like, it's not going to make

a fucking difference. I'm a piece of shit. But she's so moved that Natalie chose him. Diane Venora rules in this movie. Doing work. She's so fucking good in this movie.

She's going to be in, she did The Insider with him too. She has a big couple of years in the 90s. She's a theater person. She's like 100% a theater person. She has a big couple of years in the 90s and then disappears like a lot of these people. She's a theater person. She's like 100% a theater person. And I think Pacino respects her. No, but she's really fucking good in this. She's amazing in this.

She's amazing in Bird, the Eastwood movie. She's been in stuff. But yeah, she's sort of stopped making movies. Yeah. But it is like, you know, he is so uninterested in any sort of like happy ending or easy way out. Yeah. And the movies are about the fact that these guys are kind of fundamentally fucked.

Like they're hollow inside and like this is their juice and they need it. To me the action is in the juice. Right. What's the line he says also in the hospital where he's like, I'm always going to be chasing something. It's better than that. You know? But it's like the chase for me is the thing or whatever it is. I forget what it is. Yes, but that's the line he says also in the hospital where he's like, I'm always going to be chasing something. It's better than that. You know? But he's like, the chase for me is the thing or whatever it is. I forget what it is.

Yes, but that's the line. Fuck. She even gives it to him, right? She's like, you're just a predator seeking your prey, stalking, hunting or whatever. It's like, that's what any dude wants to hear. You're right. I'm a fucking tiger. Whereas Pacino's slightly more aware of it, right?

Yeah. And he keeps trying to get married anyway, right? Like, you know, he's like a passionate guy. Right, De Niro is like, I'm just a professional. This makes logical sense. Right, De Niro is like, right, the best way for me to live is to have nothing, right? Like, that's the only way for me to live. And Pacino's like, I'm trying to have some stuff,

but it's not working. I keep tricking myself into thinking. I love Voight's rundown of him. That moment is great when Voight is talking to De Niro and he's like, guy's on his third marriage. You think he's taking nights and weekends off? It's like the idea that it's like he looked at it and said, this guy's been through two divorces.

He's married to this job. Yeah, exactly. And it also calls him out as an ex-Marine, which I think we're supposed to know that. They're both ex-Marines. They both have tattoos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ex-Marine, which I think we're supposed to know that they're both ex-Marine. They both have tattoos. And you're assuming Val Kilmer also has some military background

because he's too much of a badass. Val Kilmer... And he also seems rattled by a war. He seems like a guy who can't totally shake it off. Which, it's nice that this movie doesn't pinpoint those things. It's just baked into the cake, but it's never called out.

Another thing is, you just watch all the scenes with Pacino and his wife, and you're like, oh, I totally get the dynamic here. This guy must have been great to date. He must have been so seductive until you put the ring on him, and then he can't show up.

Because it is the hunt of the thing. You're like, this guy must be so into you when you're still a little hard to get. But then when he catches you and kills you in the airport, he's done. He needs a new chase. He does.

And he has the self-justification of like, you don't want me to talk about work with you. It's a baby in a fucking microwave. I'm doing you a kindness by not telling you about that. But also it's like, I get no enjoyment

out of being with you anymore. But that's 90% of your life. That's not telling you about that. But also it's like, I get no enjoyment out of being with you anymore. But that's 90% of your life. That's all of you. Exactly. You don't have a life. She's on grass and Xanax or whatever it is she says. Like, you know,

she's just trying to serve. I wasn't so hopped up on a Xanax and pot. Right. I just like the way she's. And like the shitty version of this movie, which is nine hours. Which is Den of Thieves. Right.

Which I liked, but it is heat for dummies. But you're like 99 out of 100 writers, directors, or both would make Natalie Portman's vacant father turn out to be someone else in the movie. He would be De Niro or he would be part of the crew. You bring in Azaria and it turns out he's the deadbeat dad. Right, right, right. But it is the thing with him where it's just like sometimes like, you know,

I think you, did you bring up the no, no, it was weird. I thought because of our recording order you must have brought up in a man episode, but you brought it up in Dumbo. Sure. The Casey Affleck Manchester, like, I can't beat this thing. Yeah. Like, every Michael Mann lead is a I can't beat this thing guy,

where it's like there's just something in me we're never going to fix. Yeah, I'm fucked. And like the same thing with the Natalie Portman thing. It's like that doesn't have a plot function. It's just about how tough everything is. It's about how hard life is. Life is really fucking hard for everybody. And I think it does it good in this movie where everyone is going through it.

And then, like, you get caught up in the fantasy fantasy of like, cool, we're drilling, we're doing this. We're doing cops are hunting. We're on the hunt. And then it's like a prostitute, a 16 year old prostitute was murdered. Don't forget bad guys. Life sucks. The world is fucked.

10 year old girl kills her, tries to kill herself. You know, like they like flash to anything. More grabbing the little girl. Oh yeah. You know, that's like that. That's what you do. He's a nice guy. We saw him with his wife and kids. He's got like a nice life, but he'll

still grab that girl. Right, and it's like anyone in this movie who has an active personal life, it's an impediment to what they do. And anyone who doesn't have a personal life, it's an impediment to what they do. Like either they're hollow or they're vulnerable. But that is like short of what it is.

De Niro loves his metals. Excuse me. He loves his metals. I mean metals. It's a book about metals. Stress fractures and titanium or whatever. It's like even just way too specific

to even be like I'm casually into metals. Yeah, I know. I'm third level metals. I'm about the fracturing of metals now. I already read Intro to Metallurgy.

Now I'm on Stress Fractures and Titanium. De Niro is one of those insane things where like he's never been overweight. I already read intro to metallurgy. Now I'm on stress fractures and titanium. De Niro is one of those insane things where like he's never been overweight yet throughout his entire— I mean, other than like Raging Bull, right? He's never been accidentally overweight. He never went to a doughy period in a way a lot of former leading men— No, he's always been kind of the same guy, right.

Right. He's maintained like pretty good shape. He has throughout his career, even when he was young, always breathed like a fat guy. Oh, yeah. He has Gandolfini sandwich breath full time. Yeah. Yeah. His nose is such a powerful prop.

Yeah. But also, he does mouth breathing, too. It's both. He does. He does. Well, you know. There's a flip side to that coin. Yeah.

Pause 80 minutes. Yeah. What if I got to take you out? You know what There's a flip side to that coin. Yeah. Pause. 80 minutes. Yeah. What if I got to take you out? You know what I mean? Like, shit like that. And all he needs is his face. We've talked about how much face he has. So much face.

He's so good. He has, like, the Italian actor septum that you get and that, like, gets you, like, booked on more roles. Like, if you're an Italian male, you get this, like, fucked up septum that gets you to... Yeah. You know, like, even Sizemore has it a little bit in this movie, too. Right. like if you're an italian male you get this like fucked up septum that gets you to yeah you know like even sizemore has it a little bit in this movie too when he talks you're like what how where's that coming from and deniro's always bottle vulnerability like that's the key to him is he's the guy who never shows his hand right and if he does it's that weird thing where it's

like oh fuck i've never seen my dad cry before like this is kind of scary to watch him trying not to cry. But there is that thing. I remember my mom saying to me like earlier in my life. Before now. When I was young and I would like ask my parents a question about like film history or whatever. And they were like the 70s were like one of those turning points where all the leading men looked like a butcher. And that term has always stuck with me. I think my mom was the one who said it, but it was just like all these guys. Dying for the swing back to like a butcher. And that term has always stuck with me. I think my mom was the one who said it,

but it was just like all these guys. Dying for the swing back to that. Right. Speaking from a very personal perspective, dying for the swing back to that. Do you want someone who could like work at a deli counter to be the leader of your movie? You and I have talked a lot about how much we both just like want to play villains in things.

I just want to play something in an action movie and it doesn't make sense for either of us until we're big enough stars to force our way into Hobbs and Shaw 4. My thing is like I want to play like weird weaselly like sociopaths in like genre films. You want to play like an Eric Boghossian type.

Right and I feel like you want to play like The Fence in like a movie like this. Oh so bad. And you could like kill that dialogue so hard I think my dream action movie role would be you get you're the secret agent you get sent down to Havana and there's a guy who you're supposed to meet down there

and he's been living there for 40 and I'm like yeah I got like an open line shirt with like rum and I'm like hey sweetheart I'm grabbing the waitress's ass and I'm supposed to be like CIA but I'm like in too deep your CIA'm grabbing the waitress's ass. And I'm supposed to be like CIA but I'm like in too deep. You're CIA like gone to sea. Exactly. That's my dream role. The bodega guy and you were never really here. Have you seen that movie?

Oh yes. That feels like something you could have knocked out of the park. That would be awesome. Just this kind of really dialogue dense. Here's a little flavor. I want the pre-lap. I want to be the bodega guy who's on a phone call. I get to do like improvised pre-lap.

Here's a sloppy expert. This guy used to be all about finesse and like the details. I fucking love that. And then he discovered shorts. And gyros. I'm trying to think if there's a guy like that in this. I guess there isn't I mean like Tone Loke

and Ricky Albert, Ricky Harris but not really Piven the way he talks to Tone Loke and Harris is like insane that scene is crazy I would argue that's the one scene

where he tips the scales a little too much. Wrong! Yeah. When he goes into the, and he sings the Phoenix song back. Why don't I get to Phoenix? Did you fall in love last night? I'll take that. Right?

Isn't that the one? Let me find it. It feels a little like. Just tell me that. I'll buy that. It's when De Niro, it's when Pacino goes like full like actor studio exercise where it's like your goal is just to surprise your scene partner. He also reminds me of improvising with someone who doesn't do improv.

You know, and you're like, who? And they're like, who? Who? Who? Look at that. What? You know, it's like you're just like riffing off the last word you heard from the person not responding to the content of it.

Oh, Phoenix. Ben has just had to adjust your levels twice in a row. It's going to continue to happen. That is the plot, right. It's like, he's looking for the guys who did this, right? So he's going to hit up the snitches. Okay, he hits up the snitches. Every scene with the snitches, he's just trying to make them not understand

what the next thing he's going to do is. Everything he says, I think, is just to like, no, I got this guy, and he's like, and they're like, what's's going to do is. Everything he says, I think, is just to like, they're like, no, I got this guy. And he's like, blah! And they're like, what's he going to do next? Like, right? Like, that's the idea. He just keeps everyone unstable. That's how he's able to like.

Yes, nervy energy the entire time. Well, and that's the beauty of the take that man uses with the, she's got a great ass. He's clearly about to say big. He's starting to form the mouth for big. Yeah. Like, you see his fucking posture of his lips. Yeah.

And then he just shifts at the last second. Because he's like, wait, Judd's ass is actually kind of small. I've seen it. Regular ass. Like I feel like you see in his eyes like, oh, technically it's not that big. Right. I don't like it, but it's great. He, apparently earlier this character was conceived of as having a coke problem.

Right. In this big interview that Pacino did with Christopher Nolan. Right. About this movie, he was like, yeah, I played him like he was on coke, which just makes sense. Excuse me. What he said was, I believe this is the interview that's on like the Insomnia DVD, right? Yeah, it's also on the Heat DVD. You can watch it. Right. But I believe what he says is, you know, I was trying to make sense of why this character would act this way, staying up all night antagonizing these guys.

And I went to Michael and I met Michael. The only explanation is this guy is constantly chipping cocaine. And the specific of chipping cocaine. He's got like a brick in his jacket. He's nonstop chipping cocaine. And it's like, all right alright so that makes sense for Heat now Pacino were all of your

characters secretly on cocaine for the next 25 years I read the script for Ocean's 13 and I said Steven

the only thing that makes sense is if this guy's constantly chipping cocaine I love retroactive explanations of your choices like we always talk about Vin Diesel

after meeting the rock on the table he was like well you know in a men's health interview he's like well you know uh toretto kind of you know drinks corona and works on cars you wouldn't have a good body like he's like retroactively explaining why he's kind of fat the other one we talk about is like uh russell crowe's in this zone now and falcon war is doing it for a while but he was like they sent me the script and i went oh god i gotta gain 80 pounds he like puts the sandwich down yeah i can only play this fat yeah okay i'm gonna have to gain

100 and thankfully it was easy for me because i had just come off of another role that forced me to gain 80 pounds my seventh in a row i went from boy erase where i had gained 80 pounds to roger ales so 40 pounds on top of that i don't know if I want to do pill weight or food weight. Do I want to carry it all in my face, or should I have fat hands like in the nice guys? It is truly wild. I like it when actors do that, where they're like, I'm Dennehy for the second half of my career. It's fine, right? It's easier.

It's certainly easier to maintain. If you want to watch me as the guy who had to go to a trainer every day, like watch Gladiator. I did that movie already. Exactly. It also gives these guys so much more character. Yeah. You know? Prosky.

Prosky. You know, he's a legend. Durning, my all-time favorite. Durning, right. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. He talks to the fences.

It's all going bad. Tone Loke shows up, but then Tone Loke says slick, and Pacino's like, oh, fuck, I know, you know, right? So that's the little- He's about to tap out on the guy. He's getting nothing from him.

Calls everybody slick, so that means we called him slick. It's like, no, that's definitely not how nicknames work. It's just a verbal tick. Everything is slick to him. Can I have that slick over there? French fries?

Yeah, sure. But one thing I love about love it it's like if there's a scene there's a then we're cutting to the other guy right you know what i mean it's like one scene pacino one scene deniro he's never it's literally a 50 50 split it's like it's like two parallel movies yes happening and it's and they're very similar people as that as we're learning right right uh just to jump back when he lists the fences, he does like, it's the best. It's like one of each ethnicity. It's like, you check Rosestine, check Giovanni, and I'll check Jackson. You know?

And it's like. Oh, yeah. There's a Latino fence. Oh, 100%. It's such a fun. Hershowitz. I'll take Mendez. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And so, right. They rather bear bonds. The fence. Jon Voight is like like let's just sell it back to the mob john voight just like incredible to be like because he worked so sporadically over the course of the 80s in the 60s and 70s he was like a heartthrob he was like a boyish looking you know cutie pie right you know that's the whole point of him in the cowboy right and then

apparently he was at the gym and he touched his face touched trejo's face exactly right he's like what's happening he got two faced but both sides like someone threw acid on the whole thing voight just voight just got that like face that you get sometimes if you're an old yeah the sort of puck the pockmarked face but it's like so incredible to be like this is 10 years after Runaway Train, which is like the only big movie that charts his transition from like heartthrob to like human

like greaseball. Yeah, human bag of meatballs. Right. I mean, he's a dog face. Right. And then in this, this movie is just mostly just dog men. Yeah, you're right. Just dog men just walking around. And that's man saying realism, you're right. Just dog men walking around the world. And that's man saying realism.

You know what I mean? Like, man's like, people are fucking ugly in real life. But in Mission Impossible, he's looking cleaned up again. Yes. I mean, that one, I guess they put makeup on it. Then he has a big studio sort of resurgence of playing. Anaconda is two years after this. Yeah, it's crazy.

Anaconda is the performance of a man who has not acted in 10 years. He's like, that's the performance of a guy who has not acted in 10 years He's like that's the performance of a guy Who kind of forgot It's good He is doing a Spanish accent Or like a South American accent Something like that But he's also like a priest and Cajun at times

Throughout that movie His accent in that movie makes no sense Ice Cube is like maybe saying things that I think are racist Where I'm like Are you allowed to say that? Oh my God. Yeah, after this, it's crazy. It's like he's in like four movies a year after this. Right, right.

And he becomes like, he's in like Pearl Harbor. Yeah, and Franklin Roosevelt. It's crazy to picture him. Yeah, he's in Transformers, right. Tomb Raider. He gets an Oscar nomination for Ali, which he's wonderful in. But he also becomes this like, oh, if you hire Jon Voight,

you give him $4 million to be 10 on your call sheet, and he lends you an air of respectability for four scenes in your blockbuster. Yeah. He's so good in this. He's the villain or the mentor, whatever it is. Yeah, he's so good in this,

and it's hard to, I didn't even place that he hadn't worked for 10 years before this. It's crazy. Because he looks great. The look is unreal. But we're used to the look now because we're like, well, I know what Jon Voight looks like in year 2019.

And you're like, this is him emerging in 95. What happened to you, Jon? Right. Your ass used to be beautiful. Yeah, he's like, I don't know, like 48 in this movie? He's not that old. No. beautiful. Right. Yeah, he's like I don't know, like 48 in this movie?

He's not that old. No. No, you compare like De Niro and Pacino both look a lot sexier than him in this movie. Well, De Niro is so hot in this movie, right? That's the thing, but my mom He's real handsome. I always think of that butcher thing and I look at De Niro and I'm like, no, but that guy's like fucking handsome.

I mean, he's very clipped. He's got the salt and pepper, which is a good choice. Something about that hard goat. The hard goat works. The hard goat works. Also, De Niro has always had the best kind of good looks, which is he looks like anybody, but a handsome version of them upon further analysis. Right. You know what I mean? You're like, he looks like a guy you could work with, but you're actually more handsome

than I remember. It's when you buy home furnishings from Target, Target and you're like this only costs $40 and there's nothing fancy going on here but it's just a little cleaner than the Walmart version. Right, right, right. They just put a little extra effort in making sure it's symmetrical. Everyone in this movie is either that. Super hot or void.

Where you're like holy shit what? Like Ted Levine with like where a man was like go in a room and don't like cut your mustache for a month. The Pacino facelift thing makes sense because he's got that weird thing where his cheekbones are really sharp

but also saggy. Yes. He's got sort of eye bags underneath his cheekbones. Yeah, he's got like a Boston Terrier's face at this point. I love that

because Pacino has the three current murder cases he's working in his face. Whereas De Niro is a guy who's like, I have no worldly possessions. And that's why I'm like angles. Right. His apartment just makes me laugh so much. And De Niro's like.

If you pause it, it's like, oh, yeah, he has four plates, I think. Like they probably came with the place. Yeah. De Niro's like super boxy, like Italian suit jacket. That was another thing I was reading on the Miami Vice Wikipedia is just like how many things Michael Mann is credited for popularizing in fashion.

Single-handedly, it was like, yeah, American men didn't wear Italian clothes. It was like a very unusual occurrence. That would be too dandy. That would be too poofy. Right, and like the Ray-Ban... Pastels with like a... Pastels. Underneath like a khaki suit open collars

right it was like no one other than jazz musicians wore Wayfarers before Miami Vice sockless shoes right all these things like loafers

right and it was like highline he brought it back right you know like some of these cuts and colors have changed but like

hockey goalie masks and assault rifles for your bank robber it is also crazy how many bank robberies are credited to Heat I know where like the cops

were like the bank robbers specifically watched Heat and then decided to copy it yeah because it's so realistic I do love that they each have a slightly different

hockey mask like you have the black one you have the white one the positioning of the holes are different yeah that moment when in the beginning

when they show the shot of the ambulance and there's the mask is in the foreground and if you haven't seen the movie before you're like what is that thing in the foreground and beginning when they show the shot of the ambulance and there's the mask is in the foreground and if you haven't seen the movie before you're like what is that thing in the

and then when they slap him on you're like that's scary scary it is a weird thing though I mean because this movie is so much about confidence like you don't have

like in those scenes the tension of like are they gonna pull it off because the guys are like laying the tracks like literally let's put this thing out

on the road so when they come to get us their tires are right like all that shit and my this thing out on the road so when they come to get us, their tires are... Right, like all that shit. And my favorite thing in the entire movie is when they just abandon the heist. Right. When Kilmer's getting in, and he's like, we're out of here.

Yeah, he hears one noise. There's that shot of his ghostly face. That's the best thing in the movie. That's the coolest. That's Pacino and De Niro meeting face-to-face. Right, but it goes to the silence of the lamb like they're staring straight down the barrel like first person shot and you're seeing like like that that's shot sequencing gives me like chills where it's like deniro's face reacting to the sound yeah then pacino's face just seeing that he knows deniro

knows then back to deniro then back to Pacino then the ghostly visit yeah you see because they tease it in like the rights until they take it full frame also De Niro the lighting in that scene

where De Niro comes out of the building like kind of looks around and then just disappears just in like the shadow like that's so fucking cool

oh yeah and I love that when that shitty guy the guy who leans his gun against the van what What a great character. You can just tell right when the thing starts by his glasses and the fact that he has

his gun on his back inside a thing. You're like, this guy's a fucking nub. And then he blows it. And when they get out of the van, he's the last one out. And they just, like, he doesn't have the scene where the guy gets chewed out. He doesn't have Pacino give him a real look. You just watch that guy walk out and try

to maintain composure knowing that he just blew the entire thing. And so it's like, and now the movie just leaves that guy and you just have to imagine how this is going to stick

with this guy for 20 years. There was this cop, Vincent Hattie, he's a legend. Right. I fucked this thing up and I know he knows I did that.

Right. Pacino like not saying fuck until he like lets go of the walkie-talkie. The itchy trigger guy who's like, why aren't we making a move? And he's like, what am I going to get him for? Breaking and entering? Right, exactly. Then six months and he's back on the street.

These guys are good. They know what they're doing. And right after that is the coffee shop. The diner scene. Very soon after that is when he pulls him over. Has the scene where they the psych out where they make them show up so that they can get recon on the cops. Yes. That's after.

Right. Because right now De Niro knows something's up. They do the thing where they kind of lead them to this industrial zone. They confuse the audience, which I think is the best. So good. We've got the freeway over here. We've got the freeway over here. Yeah.

And De Niro's face, when he can see that Pacino realized what's happening De Niro has that like telephoto lens and he just smirks a little bit one of the only few he barely smiles in this movie I didn't recognize that until I was reading the IMDB trivia it's like he smiles five times or whatever in the movie and I'm like that's why that look when he's so subtly smiling like

you mother fucker it's that he smiles like Amy Brenneman once he smiles when John Voight is like, this guy says you're good. And he's like, yeah. Yeah. And the beauty is, it's in response to Pacino looking around.

Yes. And these two guys are so professional that they both respect that they're fighting against someone who recognizes all the work they're doing. Yeah, right. They're both like, you're great. Hey, no, you're great.

Right, because Pacino, it's just like, you're great. Hey, no, you're great. Right, because Pacino, it's just like, look, usually I'm dealing with fucking idiots. Like, these guys, there's like some craft going into this. And De Niro's like,

usually, you know, maybe I go home, I question whether it's worth the effort I put into this. If anyone even notices what I'm doing. I like that Pacino's accent is insane in that monologue

where he's like, you know who they're looking at? Us. The Los Angeles police. And he all of a sudden has like a weird black voice. He does this weird, like he becomes this like Cajun man further and further into the 90s, which is so strange because like when you get to the Azaria scene, right? Azaria has said that like all of his Simpsons characters are pretty much him doing a bad impression of a movie star. Where it's like Chief Wiggum is, I'm forgetting now.

What's his name? Edward G. Robinson? Sure, Edward G. Robinson. Yeah, sure. Right? Or James Cagney, right. But no, it's probably Edward G. Robinson. Yeah.

But he's like. He's like, see, hi. Right, that guy. Right. Moe is him doing 70s Pacino. Right. It's like Panic in Neal Park where he's like, See, hi. Right, that guy. Right. Mo is him doing 70s Pacino. Right. It's like Panic in Neal Park where he's like,

Hey, come on here. I'm just trying my best. Hey, homie. Yeah, right. That kind of thing. And then you get to the scene where Azaria's still kind of doing his 70s Pacino affectation.

Right. And Pacino's going like, Oh, you know, down on the bayou, I'll serve you some gumbo like you won't believe oh yeah we're going down tonight big daddy pacino he's a maniac yeah he's doing like cat on a hot tin roof so kill me from new york city i think he's also that guy who's like i did 10 solid years is

arguably the greatest actor in movies like why don fuck around. Why don't I just do some other shit? His 80s were largely bad. He barely works. He barely works and every time he comes back and he's like, I'm ready, he flops even harder. Revolution being the king of those. Especially him getting his Oscar at the very top of the 90s. It's just like, cool. I just victory

laughing now. I'm just going to have fun. 100% anger. You have to imagine having one of the best decades that any actor has ever just like cool i i just victory laughing now i'm just gonna have fun yeah yeah 100 right because you have to imagine like having like one of the best decades that any actor has ever had than having a decade that bad following it right he's like fuck they assume they'd have many chances to give me an oscar and i might not ever give them another shot again right and then so he just gave a performance in a movie that like had a script and they were like, great, sure, here's the Oscar. Jesus, finally. Oh, my God.

Right, all right. Now you quit, right? You didn't look at the camera. You're going to retire now, right? What? Jack and Jill? What script are you reading? Put that down.

Apparently he won't let people talk to him about that movie. That's fair. Really? It's his only good. He's so funny. Dunk, dunk, a Chino. Yeah, he's so good. He's got one line reading of a joke

burn this yes is that it that's great but they're playing like catch or something and she accidentally throws and hits

his Oscar which knocks over and breaks and she's like I'm so sorry but I mean you must have a ton of those right

and he goes you would think so but no so great uh i love this the part in heat when at this moment when they go like whoa what's around here and the guys have already researched the area like the cops seeing them be really when he's like uh factory only pays in checks no cash on site this place you know like any of that stuff is so good.

Everything is just solved. I love also, once they figure out Wayne Grow, they're like, here's what you do. You feed that to every source we have. Right, right, yes. And tell them not to tell it. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, they just know it will circulate back around the street.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, but act like they shouldn't be hearing this. But yeah, so there's that incredible thing. We should also say just the line where De Niro says, I'm talking to a dead man to Fickner on the phone. It's fucking pornographic. Forget about the money.

Yeah. And it's like, what? What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Instantly. Right.

Because you know who this is. I'm talking to it. There's no one on the other end of this line. I'm talking to a dead man. It's also, especially for like, okay, this is the movie, like, you know who this is. I'm talking to it. There's no one on the other end of this line. I'm talking to it, Ted. It's also, especially for like, okay, this is the movie, like, you know, two after he does his Hannibal Lecter movie. And then someone else does the even crazier Hannibal Lecter movie. And we've like set up how these like psychopath stalking their prey scenes go. Where like the innocence is like drained out of it.

And still, I think the most chilling writing of that I've ever seen is just Wayne Groh going, you don't get what this is, do you? The Grim Reapers. But even before he says that, they're both smiling and laughing like, oh, you don't know what this is. You're not feeling the tension in this room because I'm about to do something fucking weird.

And he just changes the temperature immediately. That guy, Kevin Gage, went to prison later in life for growing marijuana, which is fucked up. Leave him alone. But apparently everyone in jail just called him Wayne Grove, which makes so much sense. This is probably criminals' favorite movie. People who

are like, I am a criminal. Not people who broke the law, but people who are like, my job is criminal, and my favorite movie is Heat, and you are Wayne Grove. I think also, Heat's huge in prison because it's like, it's movie night. It's like,

pick the longest movie. Right, yeah, yeah. If you want to go back to the cell, how about a three hour movie? Can we watch Heat twice? It is insane. This movie's three hours long. I think we said this already

on another episode, but when they were like selling the TV rights and they were like, Yeah, we've said this, but it's amazing. It's 2.54. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael, we're going to have to like cut it down like 40 minutes to have it fit into any traditional TV slot. Right. Even if we take a three hour block, you're going to have to cut at least 40 minutes out of this thing. And he was like, what if I gave you another 40? Right. What if we beef it up to like 320 so it can be a four hour? That was his pitch.

He was like, I could get it. If we're at like. Read the room, man. I can get it done. You want a four hour block? Okay, I got you. You need could get it. Read the room, man. You want a four-hour vlog? You need 40 more minutes? No, no, no. Slow down.

Reels dropping. That's fine. This Pacino just yells into a pillow for eight minutes. I got Natalie Portman buying razors. Wes Studi just cleans a gun. Do you need that? and buy and raises? What do you need? Wes Studi just cleans a gun.

Do you need that? Jon Voight makes, you know, eggs and peppers. Hands in B-roll. That would be good. Yeah, Jon Voight just chopping eggs and peppers. This is one of those ones where, like,

every time it's re-released, he changes it a little bit, but it's so minor. It's like he inserts one shot or removes one piece of dialogue. I changed the timing of this. I picked an alternate take. Like he never restructures it

the way he does with his other movies. No, because I mean, honestly, the idea that it's a perfectly structured movie is kind of hilarious because it does feel like a TV pilot. It has stuff like the Dennis Haysburg character where you're like, you don't need this.

No, absolutely not. Or the Natalie Portman stuff, like plots that feel a little superfluous. Well, when they first showed Dennis Haysburn before when he's just like a guy on parole getting a chef job

you're like what the fuck is this and that doesn't come back for 90 minutes a chef job from Bud Court yes from Bud Court the kid from Harold and Maude

from Harold himself oh yeah he looks like a oh and jumping back to the I'm talking to a dead man on the other line of this phone hangs up and he's at fucking like that, that's like double duty. He's making that call from outside Ashley Judd's apartment watching.

Like, that's such great filmmaking where he's like, this is a major plot point. Hang up. De Niro's going to hang up a phone. Oh, hell yeah. That's such a beautiful thing, too, when he goes to Ashley Judd and is like, if you just hold out for like six months i will or six weeks i will finance you leaving him yeah you give him a shot and if it doesn't work out right yeah and that's after he has the conversation with kilmer where he's like you know uh in my opinion men should have no attachments and kilmer says well the sun rises and sets and you're sort of like okay i'm gonna go talk to her

right because one million bucks if he fucks up again he was like i'm not gonna get kilmer to quit judd right but i can't have him be distracted and sloppy right now right right so it's like i'll pay a million dollars for you to stay with him for three more weeks and i like that he's kind of a real monster to her yes oh yeah like he's just like like he's you that's when you're like you're rooting for de niro and then you like see the way he treats Ashley Judd and you're like ooh yeah he's not great he's bad with feelings yes Amy Brenneman who's great in this movie

I love Amy Brenneman but you know she's playing this very sort of like lonely introverted person aspiring graphic designer yeah

who's like moved to LA and doesn't know anyone and De Niro is classy and mysterious and like you sort of get it but once she's in the car at the end, you're like, yeah, gotta go. Why are you still doing this?

Once he's like holding her face on the hill, I'm like, that's again the- He does like medals though. He does. I'm into medals. When the movie reminds you that De Niro is a scumbag is the best parts of this movie. Because where you're like,

I can't believe this bitch won't go with him and then you're like when he grabs her and then you're like oh wait no he's a killer she's not run away especially when this is like only like a handful of years after Cape Fear which is like the one time De Niro went full scumbag like nothing else

other than just like monstrous that he like has that in his back pocket we've seen him do that menace and then the couple of scenes where he like launches into that

it's not even the like raging bull thing of like oh this guy's got anger problems it's like the little touches of like this guy's kind of sadistic

he'll kill you right it's not that he can't control himself it's that part of him seems like he sort of enjoys this sure but he's not like a wangro who like literally like murders for fun no but he'll kill you

i think is in there so that you go like you swing back oh right you have to work with some unsavory fellas right and then also but then you also go like pacino like you it also makes you wonder like hey hannah shouldn't you be more concerned about the serial killer than the guys robbing banks right you know and it's like but they did kill three armed security you know 100 but that's another thing right that scene where uh not just wayne grow killing the the the prostitute but then pacino giving the mom a hug like where he's like he's not exactly empathetic but he knows like if he just kind of grabs her, it's sort of like 90% of what she needs. Great Pacino moment.

I love that hug. But when you're watching the movie, you're like, this is about bank robbers, right? Are they going to rob a bank? And then, come on, the diner scene. They're at the diner. I always fast forward to this part. Yeah, bullshit. Skip chapter?

Boring. You're in the movie theater and people i was one time this is a terrible rocky balboa that rocky movie sitting the movie sucks no one's enjoying it yeah we're at the cobble hill cinemas and then like he's obviously about to start training and the two guys in front of me get up and go to the bathroom and i'm like if there's a moment to not leave it's like the build- it's like him failing to run the restaurant is when you pee right

yes why did you buy the ticket my friend this is why I'm here I would have just come if they could have told me when this was I would have just came in

for it right you're like if they did this in the trailer I would have skipped the movie right this fucking scene

it's so good yeah it's so good wanna get a cup of coffee it's so good yeah it's so good wanna get a cup of coffee it's so good and such like deft underplaying don't take scores right

yes very underplayed because you get to something like Righteous Kill where it's like now it's a whole movie of the two of them together and it's like this weird competition

of like Pacino being like we're gonna see who can out act right and De Niro's like yeah yeah it's definitely out acting yeah that's definitely

what I'm famed for recently. Taking a nap on camera. Like it's such a weird movie because it's like Pacino's doing more than either of them have ever done combined. And De Niro's doing less. I mean,

De Niro in so many of those 2000s movies, like you're like, I know that's him. I can see him. Right. But is he aware that he was in a movie today? It's like wheeled onto set and then they're like, all right, stand here. And it's like, I know that's him. I can see him. Right. But is he aware that he was in a movie today? Yeah, he feels like he's wheeled onto set. And then they're like, all right, stand here.

And it's like, that's a wrap. Five million dollars. Thank you. Yeah. That was like my brother and I would get into the discussion of who's more embarrassing now, De Niro or Pacino. And it's like when Pacino fucks up, he fucks up big. Right.

He makes big, hard choices that are more outwardly embarrassing. he fucks up like big. He makes big, hard choices that are more outwardly embarrassing. And because he still has the vanity of wanting to be like the sexy, tough cop, he takes worse movies. And De Niro phones in kind of more mediocre thoughts. He phones in supporting performances

in a film they never should have been allowed to call him about. Right, right. The director should not be, he should call De Niro's agent and the agent should be like, how dare you offer this to me? He he should say i want to call deniro and the director's agent should go right no right instead deniro's like i see this guy he's like a tough guy i'll take it sure yeah i

need uh my rider is you know a bowl of oranges and it's also that he's like this like conglomerate who wants to like i gotta open another tribeca grill that's the thing that's like this like conglomerate who wants to like, I got to open another Tribeca grill. That's the thing. That's why he needs these. Cause he needs to buy like a square block of Tribeca every year. Right. Like that's his actual move. Yeah. He gets a block a year.

Pacino's bad shit is big swings, which at least you can appreciate the element of craft. But Pacino is unable. I mean, I'm maybe saying, speaking out of turn in this room, but Pacino is like unable to do comedy. I know you guys believe Jack and Joel. I think De Niro is way more skilled in comedy. Oh, I agree. I think Pacino, I think Jack and Joel is the only time he's actually landed jokes. It's the only time he's tried to do comedy.

Have you guys seen, I've talked about this before. De Niro has good timing. He's good at pausing. He's a good pauser. Famously, he takes super long pauses. Very long. Well, Midnight Run's incredible.

There's a flip side to that. Midnight Run, I also think, is like the sexiest film character of all time. I watched that movie and I'm like, that's what I wish

I looked like. 100%. Yeah. That's me with Joe Manganiello in True Blood. When he's a wolf. Yeah. I think I've talked about this in a previous episode

maybe on Insomnia or something but there's a video that's now weirdly kind of hard to find from the tail end of Letterman where Pacino comes on and they were like

having more and more guests come on to try to like send him out in style where he Pacino comes on and he's like Al what are you doing here

and he's got like the 17 scarves and like the 2 feet of hair on and he's like, Al, what are you doing here? And he's got like the 17 scarves and like the two feet of hair. Right, right, right. And he's like, you know, I don't get to do enough comedy. So I thought maybe I could come help you out with one of your top 10 lists. And the bit is that he knows he can't deliver jokes. So he wants Letterman to still do the 10, but Pacino is going to do the numbers. That's really funny.

And he tries to give each number a distinct line reading. That's great. That's funny. It's so good. Self-aware, too, which is cool. He also looks like he has no idea what he's doing. It's weird. It's like on one hand, very self-aware,

and on the other hand, totally oblivious. Do we like the diner scene? I mean mean what is it's take 11 yeah he set up three cameras yeah so like they just ran the whole thing you know they don't like do sides yeah even though people would freak out and be like they're not in the same frame together you know but that's intentional yeah yeah i don't know there is one there is wide shots there's a couple yeah that's not what it's about right right but i think that's also keeping with we're watching two movies. Yes.

So when we're showing Vincent, that's the cop movie. Right. When we're showing Neil, that's the robber movie. Right. Just so you wouldn't see them together because they're not in the same movie yet. 100%. Their movies are still running parallel. Right. The tracks are getting closer and closer.

They're not ready to shake hands yet. Yeah, exactly. They're not ready to... Dylan, you son of a bitch. That's the thing. Dylan you son of a bitch that's the thing Pacino is like you were in jail you know you were in shoe

which is solitary confinement like you know isn't that tough and Danilo's like you're gonna become a penologist right like he's like not interested he's like there's no depth to me forget it let's not talk about it right and then Pacino's like let's talk about our dreams I see my you know the guys i took down with the black eyes you know bleeding out of their eyes

and deniro's just like i have a dream where i'm drowning because i you know i'm stressed out yeah i don't have enough time to do all the shit i want to do yeah i was very like let's get to the point of it right away i have a dream where i show up to a bank robbery i'm naked and all like it's all my high school teachers are in the bank. You're just having traditional anxiety dreams about your career. But it's also one of those things where De Niro's like, we're the same person. Stop trying to psychoanalyze me.

Pacino keeps being like, come on, do you do it for the thrill of it? And he's like, no, I'm good at it. Just like you. I do it because I'm good and I don't know how to do anything else. But I think also, this is kind of obvious, but De Nro is telling pacino who pacino is and pacino's learning for the first time like or maybe he's always thought it but now he's like oh yeah and that's i think why he knows he's got to break it off with the

girl because he's like i am de niro i shouldn't have anything because in case the heat is on i got to be able to walk away when i see a microwave baby i can't bring that shit back to anybody else yeah but yeah but yeah and right and he can talk to hannah can say like i'm on my third marriage failing you know because he knows deniro will get what he's talking about right no one else will understand what he's talking about and deniro it feels like him falling for for amy ran is like less about like oh my god they have this unbelievable chemistry and more about like this woman tricked me into spending time with her because I put no effort into trying to meet women.

She just tried. Right. And that was enough for him. He needed love. Most people don't make an outward move to him. Of course not. And she tried like

four times in a row and he kept shutting her down. And so it sort of feels like him falling in love with the person he lost his virginity to. Right. Yeah.

He's like, well, this is what love feels like. We got to spend the rest of our lives together. I got a woman. Yeah. His little head tilt. He's doing his head yeah and he like that's like that would be the moment where she's like watching on surveillance right he called me his woman that's the discipline right yeah pacino's like what are you gonna give her up that's the discipline right oh and he starts repeating that like don't have anything in your life you can't get rid of in 30 seconds like more and more in the yard told him right and it's like

he he says it more and more because he's trying to himself convince himself it's so cool um and they then they uh rob the bank yeah uh they uh they're gonna they're not gonna do it yeah they need the money now this is the first third act of the movie. Right. In order to keep track. This is the end of the second triptych. Right. This movie has a three-act third act. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You figure the bank robbery is the end. It's the thing. It's a heist movie. So the big heist should be the end, right? Right. And you're losing a bunch of the men on both sides. Of course.

Right. It's so wild. Going back to you talking about confidence. Yeah. Pacino and the cops running up when they know the robbery. They know that these guys are literally the best at killing and everything. And they're running up and no one is like, what the fuck? They're like, this is our job.

They're like walking along with the bus as the bus moves. Like all that cool shit. Give me that shotgun. Yeah. Give me that shotgun. Give me that shotgun. Yeah. Oh, and also, right, after the coffee shop is when everyone suddenly

vanishes and Pacino's like, half an hour ago. That's that. But yeah, they have the bank robbery. It's great. They have a great bank robbery. The bank robbery is so... We talked about the shootout of Vonturly. I know, I know, I know. The lead-up to the bank robbery, the look on

De Niro's then uh seismor's then val kilmer's face or whatever the order is yeah where you could just see three guys like well it's time to fucking rock it like at the drop of a hat it's right we're ready to rock we've been preparing to potentially die this way our entire lives and kilmer's reaction to when he's walking up to the car yeah and you're like the way sizemore he hits hazebert where he's like yeah we're doing it and kneels in the car and then valcomer's walking up and you know it's all the car and then he just sees the guy across no hesitation slings his gun out barely firing around yeah sizemore starts firing everyone just goes no one at any point is like so if they're cops remember shoot them with guns right right which would be helpful. I would like to know that.

There's not even parts where they go, you take that guard, hey, handcuff him. It's like all sold. It's like they've been running the plays in their mind for so long that nothing needs to be said now. It's like men, right? We don't talk. We don't communicate. If this podcast is an hour

free of a podcast. You know what men don't do? Talk. These are four men who never talk oh my god I mean I think it's sad that Haysbert dies you know

you feel that because you like that guy even though maybe he's terrible like who knows right we don't know

what he was in jail for exactly but I again that's just what I love about the movie where it's like don't forget this is sad

for this woman you know what I mean like other people are affected like and Pacino even says like well when you come around the corner and you just made a woman a widow you know like yeah that's why i'm gonna have to take you down every time you kill those three armed security guards were dads you know like you got fucking money but you killed dads and especially during this shootout they cut to random people on the streets so much

you're like more more than Marvel movies do, which are ostensibly about saving civilians. This movie keeps reminding you, there are people who are just watching this happen. When they get to the grocery store and Hannah's just shoving people from standing to the ground, that's so dark and fucked up.

This person has PTSD. This person has PTSD. Every person I touch is fucked. That poor girl Sizemore picks up. Right. Yeah. He just keeps cutting to them in like close-ups. Like just, they are never going to get over this. They just watched Ted Levine get shot in the neck with a shotgun.

Poor Teddy. Yeah. Yeah. And Sizemore bites it, obviously. Kilmer gets shot. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's basically, except for De Niro, is out of commission.

I mean, Kilmer survives the movie, which is wild. Yeah. He gets a haircut. That's the crazy. He gets the saint haircut. Right. Yeah. Everyone's basically, except for De Niro, is out of commission. I mean, Kilmer survives the movie, which is wild. Yeah. He gets a haircut. That's the crazy. He gets the saint haircut. Right. Yeah.

He's going to go make the saint. That would be great when they went into the car. Sir, let me see your ID. And he's got like the fake teeth. Oh, excuse me.

He's like doing one of his goofy saint characters. He's like. That would be so good. All right. Well, don't go. Every movie should have to do that where it's like,

at the end of the movie, you have to set up the actor's next role in whatever it's going to be. I don't care if it makes no sense. Like a post-credit sequence where you see everyone setting up for their next movie.

It's like transitioning. It's actually, Neil McCauley will become Gaylord Fokker's father-in-law. Right. I guess, I guess Pacino's next movie is City Hall, which is very similar to this movie. Oh, yeah. The vibe-wise. I guess Pacino's next movie is City Hall,

which is very similar to this movie, vibe-wise. What's De Niro's movie after this? Let's find out. It's a fun game, right? Literally the immediate

follow-up is Sleepers. It's not that exciting. Sleepers in Marvin's room. A weird 96 for him. Because his next, this movie is Ronin. Right. Which is 99,

or 98, 98. Right. That's like, which I love. Right. Which is 99 or 98. Right. That's like, which I love that movie. Which is also like. It's so good. He's playing Neil McCall. He's playing a very similar character. You got to be ready to do blank.

It's like if Neil McCall is put in a crew where he doesn't know anyone and he's kind of like, you guys seem fucked up. I don't like it. Like, why don't you all be robots like me? Right. No, I was going to say that's and that's sort of the last time that De Niro gets to do this as the leading man. Ronan. Right? Yeah, pretty much, right?

Yeah. Like, he's not going to be your sort of, like, quasi-romantic lead. Right. The score, I guess, is Norton kind of the lead of that? It's about the score. Don't take scores, as Pacino says to him. And he went and made the score. It's because, like, Pacino keeps trying to, he went and made the score it's because like Pacino

keeps trying to like make these movies yeah 100% for far too long two for the money right like that's this right like I mean

if you look at the Pacino filmography right oh the recruit at least in the recruit I guess he's you know you've got Farrell to sort of like

do the action right well that's the way that these guys should survive in these movies right I'm now the guy who like Michael Keaton in American Assassin.

Everyone could be playing that role. He's still doing like 88 Minutes, Righteous Kill. All that shit. I guess it's interesting that he does Donnie Brasco very soon after this. Because that's, he's playing like a pathetic guy who's pretty beaten down by life. And he's pretty subtle and internal in that movie. I think he's great. That's one of his best performances.

I love Serpico, but and A Son of a Woman, who doesn't? Dog Day is probably my number one, but Danny Brasco might be number two. Dog Day is good. He's also good in this film that I really like called The Godfather.

I don't know if you've heard of that one. It's really good. Is there like a blank check director guy? No, he never made much else. It was Godfather and out for him. He didn't literally take out the biggest checks in the world. He didn't bankrupt multiple studios and basically buy a country for a while. Ashley Judd's hand signal to Val Kilmer.

One of the most, I just love that. A little tap on the rail. Judd's great in this. This is like her first big studio film, right? It's a great question. I feel like this is her first. Yeah, 100%. She's been in Ruby in Paradise, which is like a Sundance winner.

That's it. She's been in this movie for a total of six minutes out of 180. Yeah. And she's the most on-camera female. Right. Yeah, because it's her, Venora, and Brennan are all kind of the same. Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad worked on Smoke, the Harvey Keitel movie. Sure, which is the same year as this. Right. And so she was shooting these two things at the same time. And it was like,

oh, she's like, everyone's saying she's going to be the next big thing. Which is kind of true. Right. Yeah. We went to like a repertory screening of it recently with my sister. Of Smoke?

Yes, who was born years later. My sister's much younger and she not only, you know, was not alive when the movie was being made. But she wasn't like pounding the ground to see Smoke when she was a kid? Like, I want to see the Cigar Shop movie. Right, like five years after its release. I love Wayne Wang. Yeah. She did like Wayne Wang. Wayne Wang's cool. Yeah, she thought his name was Wayne Wang. Yeah. She did like Wayne Wang.

Wayne Wang's cool. Yeah, she thought his name was Wayne Wang. Yeah, she was too. But the thing that was crazy was we were watching it, and Ashley Judd's got one scene in that movie shot at the same time as this. She's in a similar kind of mode. She's like sort of beaten down, addicted, bleach bottle blonde. Right, right, right.

And Romley was like, who the fuck is this? And I was like, oh, you like passed the entire era in which Ashley Judd was a major movie star. By the time Romilly's 10, Ashley Judd's out of theaters. It's so out. It has been out for like five years. And I was like, she was like, why didn't that person have a career?

And I was like, not only did she have a massive career, but she essentially had her own genre. Totally. There were 10 years of like Ashley Judd movies. Airport thrillers with like, that are kind of violent, you know, and like with an older guy,

maybe not as romantic, but like a Tommy Lee Jones and Morgan Freeman, right? You know, like a sort of like kind of grizzled guy. And you were like, once every three years, she would try something else.

Right. But it was like, she was kind of like Liam Neeson, where it was just like, here's her zone. That's what she does. Kiss the girls, double jeopardy, eye of the beholder, high crimes, twisted, like all that shit. Then she does Bug, and studios are like, we're never calling you again. Right, it was like, great, done. But she's amazing in Bug. Oh, yeah.

But even at that point, it's's like high crimes was the last of the ashley judd thrillers yeah i would say right that's like 2002 uh yeah twisted is 04 i call twisted kind of the end high crimes one with tommy lee jones and sam jackson like the court one court thrill no no that's uh basic oh basic yes right she did separate tommy lee jones and morgan high crimes is sam jackson movies she worked with all of them in different... She did a Sam Jack movie, right? Twisted. Oh, right, right, right. Twisted. High Crimes is Morgan Freeman again.

James Caviezel is in that one. James Caviezel. Oh, yes. Now I know which one that is. That's the one I was thinking of. Kiss the Girls, obviously that's a Freeman. Don't cross Alex Cross. It's such a unique phenomenon when someone becomes a genre like that. Here's your own little sub-genre, it's such a unique phenomenon when someone like becomes a genre like that. Like here's your own little sub genre.

And it's like people write Ashley Judd movies or they like option novels that could be turned into an Ashley Judd vehicle. And every once in a while she's like, I'll do a comedy. Yeah, give me a someone like you. And everyone's like, eh, no thanks. Right. Yeah. She's like, I hope you had fun.

There's not a threat of like kidnapping in a cave or something she's just been on like four TV shows where you're like oh Ashley Judd is on like Berlin Syndrome on Epix Berlin Station I believe a while back was on a a true TV show and I was going to the Turner Upfronts and they were flying

us all from LA to New York private and showing up there for the Turner upfronts. I'm like, oh, it's going to be like the impractical jokers and the, and these guys. And then I guess I didn't realize what shows were hour long dramas on TNT in like 2013, 2014. And it's Lucy Liu, Sharon Stone.

What's his name? Andy Garcia. All these people. I'm like, this is like my, this is my movies of my childhood. It's literally the blockbuster video. 90 adult thrillers. That's what TNT probably was, right?

They were just like, yeah, like to get a time machine, go to a blockbuster in Omaha, Nebraska. All the people who were 20, 20 when the blockbuster was huge are 40 now. And they're watching TNT.

We should mention, I feel like this is a movie whose reputation is largely solidified by TNT. By cable. Yeah. But TNT I feel like two movies that they really pushed

into the ultimate pantheon specifically are this and Shawshank. You're right. Where there are like long movies that people would just be like

that's my afternoon I'm just watching this every scene's engaging on its own. Right. Or like oh they're about to rob the bank let me watch up to that. If you're flipping through and you're like this scene's good I should watch just this. Every scene's engaging on its own. Or like, oh, they're about to rob the bank.

Let me watch up to that. If you're flipping through and you're like, this scene's good. I should watch just this one scene. Or it's the diner scene coming up, obviously. Right, because between like 95 and 2005, like heat goes from being like what was seen as kind of a disappointment relative to the expectations. Relative to the hype. 100%. That people liked, but then it was like, well, it kind of didn't live up

to the potential. Kind of bloated, like Kilmer's all wrong for it. Like that was its rep in the 90s. Right. Like, I mean, obviously, quickly there were people who were like,

that thing's a masterpiece or like that thing is like the most elevated crime movie or whatever they wanted to say about it. But it had like no awards traction whatsoever. It was released for awards traction, but got none, obviously.

It like barely made back its budget domestically and did well enough worldwide that it sort of was like net neutral. Right. You know? I don't think anyone

was furious about how Heat did. No, but then I feel like by like 10 years later it was like, he kind of, he kind of fucks and by the time you get

to like 2015, it's like, we all agree Heat is one of the American masterpieces. Of course. Yeah, I think like in the, the Nolan shit helps too like 2015, it's like we all agree Heat is one of the American masterpieces. Yeah, I think like in the – The Nolan shit helps too. All of a sudden a lot of people who grew up watching Michael Mann and John –

I think John Carpenter kind of benefited from this too. A lot of people who grew up watching that sort of stylized worlds are now doing that. And then all of a sudden everyone is like, oh, if you like this, you're going to love this. I feel like there's such a big Carpenter revival happening right now. And I feel like a lot of it is Jordan Peele. Like, he's not the only one. Right, right. But I think when people go like, oh, it's cool.

It's like a horror movie. It's like about shit. It makes you think. Right. And then, like, we're sitting on a porch. And you're like, I got some more things for you to watch. Come to my movie porch. Are you like, you like the music?

Should we have a movie porch? Do I? Should we have one? We should have one. Let's set one up. Ben used to watch, Ben has talked about, most of, when we cover a movie porch? Do I? Should we have one? We should have one. Let's set one up. Ben used to watch, Ben has talked about, most of,

when we cover a movie that he's seen before, the circumstances in which he saw that film are usually watching the VHS on someone's porch in New Jersey.

So we've talked about what we wanted. Is it one person's porch or do multiple people have TVs on porches? Multiple people. I grew up with, New Jersey had porch TVs.

Right, like it wasn't a basement or a rumpus room. It was a porch with an extension cord running through the window. Nothing like watching a movie in broad daylight on a cathode tube TV.

What's up with TVs in this movie? Why is CRT such a major part of this movie? Like, there's the TV man whose TV is plugged in. He's like a homeless guy who has static on. He feels very MTV. Yeah, because it's sideways. Because that's what it was, right?

It's just glowing colors. And then that. And then the whole shit with De Niro's face off is first on that screen. On the CRT screen. There's like a lot of, they're saying something. And Pacino takes the TV. Yes. Puts it in his car.

Carries it with him for like three scenes. It's in for a while. He finally dumps it. Yeah. Yeah. And another movie, like you were saying, another movie would have Natalie Portman be attached to someone. Another movie would have a guy with a fucking shopping cart come up and go, oh, TV.

Right. Reset the cycle. Right. Yeah. No, absolutely not. All right. Oh, and the TV guy heard someone say slick. That's the crazy thing.

That's it. That's all they got. That's the only thing that does them all. Book, do it anyway. I wonder if the TV guy is meant to be like a radio man thing. Sure. You know about radio man? No.

Do you not know about radio man? I mean, I know about the Cuba Gooding Jr. movie this is what we have to talk about see Gabrus knows about Radio Man because he's worked on some East Coast sets yeah it's the dude who just wanders around it's Moonvest he's Moonvest right yes in 30 Rock right I do kind of know

who this is and the Fisher King was kind of based on right right not in script form but Robin Williams is like I paid Radio Man because he was like my technical consultant for the movie. Radio Man's a dude who loves fucking movies. He loves the magic of the movies.

I've sat next to him a bunch of times at Film Forum. Really? He unprovoked goes on monologues about how Claudette Colbert was the only person who could do comedy and drama. Cool. He's at least got taste. Right. He has a fair number of credits. He part of sag a bunch of like new york-based actors and directors like love him will give him parts that he can meet his dues and get his health insurance right because his job is he just knows whatever is filming in the tri-state area, and he rides a bicycle there. We shot an overnight in Long Island for vinyl, and he biked there.

I believe he lives in downtown Manhattan. Sure. He looks like Moonvest. He looks like a crazy homeless man. He's got a big bushy beard. He's got a radio and headphones on all the time. He's got a phone line. He's got like a 1-800 phone line where you can call it,

and he records new outgoing voicemails that tell you what's filming that week. And he shows up on every fucking set. And it's that thing of just like, you don't feel like you've made it until you show up on a set that Radio Man has like decided is worthy of your time. Give me a fingernail.

TV Man feels like a little bit of a tip of the hat. Except right after this it just becomes like let's just hire Radio Man. And Radio Man self identifies as an actor now. Good for him. He's the best. I'm dying to get to that point.

I self identify. He's got credits. He's got credits. He's got an IMDb profile. Is it listed under Radio Man? No it's under Craig Costaldo, but he's often credited as Radio Man. Yeah. Yes.

Awesome. So the last act of this movie, yes, that's right. There's another act, right? The third act of the third act. Yes, is, I mean, all kinds of stuff. The Trejo scene we talked about. It's kind of structured like a Herald, I'm realizing.

Taking down- To where the third beats are like, guys, edit. Killing Vance and killing Thickner. We're only getting to the second group game now? I don't understand your Herald jokes. A couple people are loving this. I know.

If only there was more of a crossover in the improv and podcast. No, never. Those guys don't talk to each other right no because men hate talking uh vince and hannah never made a mod team vince and hannah never made a mod um natalie portman tries to kill herself him going to kill wayne grow is like a full-on heist in of itself like it's so oh yeah he cases the hotel right he sees that the clerk has a shotgun he does the thing where he does like the fake get the info he's like yeah jameson plt i He cases the hotel. Right. He sees that the clerk has a shotgun.

He does the thing where he does like the fake get the info. He's like, yeah, Jameson, I hate when that happens. Yeah, I know. Right. Like the bullshit. I love the beauty of him, too, in the light tunnel with like Amy Branham. Yes. Where he's like free and clear, free and clear. Right.

They're going to do it. And then he can't. The sudden right turn. That's maybe one of the other smiles. Right. Yes. But I think he smiles before he... Yeah. He smiles when he knows he's going to kill Wayne Groh.

Which is so cool, right? I would go for Wayne Groh. Wayne Groh's bad. He's bad? And it feels like I was just holding in a burp. I'm holding in all of my gases today. Because he knows that Wayne Groh leaked the shit to Van Zandt, right?

Right. Wayne Groh is the guy who really betrayed them, not trained them. Right, right, right, yeah. And so not only did he get Hannah on them in the first case, he then also gets him, but like Wayne Groh has fucked it up. And then unbeknownst to Neil,

Wayne Groh's also a serial killer. So it's like, somebody kill him. Yeah, exactly. Please. He's in a fucking luxury suite right now. But the choice that De Niro makes, which is so good,

is he plays it less as, you know what, I gotta get my revenge on this guy and more as like, I'm such a professional. I got the time. It will drive me crazy for the rest of my life

if I don't close this loop. It's 100% that. And Voight knows telling him because he's a singular fucking goal guy. Yeah. Voight's like, because you asked me. Yeah. I gotta tell you. I was trying to hold it yeah that's such he's at this hotel and i'm sure you don't want to do anything about that and denier's like you're right of course not right and then

just like that quiet and then that smirk as he goes off the road and he says to edie like wait here 45 seconds right back 45 seconds it's gonna take you an hour but it's played like the moment where the dad is like what am i doing and he turns around from the big meeting to go to his daughter's soccer game it's like the abrupt shift of like what am i doing there's a serial killer out there look at me the move also when he throws the chair through Fickner's window is so good. So awesome. Because he like gets the balance of it just right. Yeah, he does like the pick it up like discus. Okay, I'm going to spin this way.

He's trying to get some torque on it. It's startling. It's very startling. Fickner's reaction is awesome. I don't fucking know. Yeah, well, how the fuck would I know? And he's like, great, killing you. Don't need that anything else out of you.

Oh my God. Now, I saw this movie came out in December. I am praying that that means that the movie I think beat this at the box office is what beat it at the box office. We'll talk about it. You want to do the box office game now? We just have to talk about the airport showdown. Oh, sure, sure, sure. That's the only other thing.

Yes. I just love that. Right, and you go, what, this is two, three years after Point Break? Is Point Break 92? 93? Yeah. Isn't it that. Right, and you go, what, this is two, three years after Point Break? Is Point Break 92? 93? Yeah, isn't it 92? Right? Yeah. It's 92, right? 91. Wow. Four years. Wow.

It's an interesting counterpoint that shows you the difference between these two filmmaker styles, and Man and Bigelow have a lot of overlap, especially in this time period. Of course. Oh, hell yeah. And they're both very hardcore. Yeah, and they're both very hardcore in terms of how they make the movies. Yes. And also both like that's my two sides of my brain, I think. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Like if you put like Steven Seagal, John Carpenter in there and shake it up, that's like my movie taste. Well, Bigelow's maybe like Nancy Meyers. Oh, yeah. There's some Nancy Meyers in there. Michael Mann. Bigelow's in the middle. Yeah. Wait. what do you want

to say about Point Break? What's the overlap? Bigelow has that thing where it's just like everything has to look so sexy and so stylized in this sort of Nancy Meyers like I'm trying to do to crime and cops what Nancy Meyers is trying to do to your weekend home in the same sort

of romanticism of everything, whereas Mann is like more unsparing. And I think comparing the two, especially with this cat and mouse, opposite sides of the same coin, that Point Break leads to these big physical outbursts and shooting in the air and letting the guy catch the wave.

And this movie just leads to two guys just being like, should we hold hands quickly? No one's around around no one sees it that's like a joke yeah like that's like de niro cracks like a joke yeah like he's just like told you i wasn't going back yeah uh but all the planes landing the way the lights come on and the fact that pacino uses the plane oh it's so good because i think it's so loud it's so loud i think de niro is intending to use the plane, the lights.

He felt blinded by them. So he's like, Oh, this will blind Pacino and I'll get it. But then his own shadow. That's the thing. Yeah, no,

you're right. You think it's, well, they're both smart. And that's the thing. It's, it's a cat and mouse game. And then the cat wins.

A Moby song plays and I cry for 20 minutes. It's great. The heat, heat, heat. That's a Moby song. Yeah. Wow.

That's something we haven't spoken about at all. The music. Tangerine dream It's great. The heat, heat, heat. That's a Moby song? Yeah. Wow. That's something we haven't spoken about at all. The music. Tangerine Dream, right? No, no, no. It's Elliot Goldenthal. It's Elliot Goldenthal for this one.

But he's doing such a Tangerine Dream kind of riff. Oh, shit. Because he's done like three Tangerine Dream movies in a row. Is Manhunter Tangerine Dream? Yes.

And Keep and Thief certainly are. Keep and Thief are Manhunterunter Composer I don't fucking know The Reds which is another band like that

wow but no yeah and then obviously Mahekans has that very orchestral score right this is very

tangerine and talk about right Val Kilmer and Elliot Goldenthal in the same year doing Batman Forever and Heat

it's wild the Batman Forever soundtrack, what a score, is one of the great scores. It's so fucking good. It's crazy, because I, as we've talked about my entire show,

don't like Batman Forever, but I feel like that score never gets enough credit, because people always attribute a lot of those themes to Elfman, and don't realize that Goldenthal actually kind of made up like eight new Batman themes. 100%. That are as iconic. It's a whole thing. Yeah,

I know. It's a whole fucking opera score. Dun-dun-dun-dun. It's all Goldenthal and not... Is that the movie that we get to do the bet for the bet? Like if yours is Old Dogs, is mine Batman Forever? Fuck me, dude.

For the Lion King bet? Yeah. I made a bet like a year and a half ago that the Lion King was going to be the highest grossing film of all time. And I stood by it really confidently until like three days ago when the new trailer came out. And now you're kind of, you're a little. When the teaser came out, I was like, come at me, bro. I'm standing behind this.

Because the teaser was just Circle of Life. Right. And I was just like, oh, fuck. Oh, you're like, wait, it's just the movie again. Oh, now they're talking. No, no, that's not the problem. I was like, if it's just the movie again, it's now they're talking. No, no, that's not the problem. I was like, if it's just the movie again, it's going to make

all the money in the world. And then the new trailer came out and I was like, oh, fuck, they're not showing any shots of the characters talking. They clearly still haven't fixed this.

They haven't cracked the Aladdin shit, too. Like, that's so funny to me that they were like, look at this picture of Will Smith. Everyone's like, what the fuck?

Back in the room. Guys, wait a second. Wait a second. Hey, you're going to work a 20- hour day forever until Will Smith looks hot well it's not

Tangerine Dream but the score score's beautiful Brenneman and De Niro's like when they're getting a little hot and heavy

yeah that score like that like it gets like faster and more intense it's so fucking it does feel so telling that like throughout

the film's release all its home video releases like the poster the cover always remained the same they never created a new image it's a good poster that was sort of and more intense is so fucking dope. It does feel so telling that like throughout the film's release all its home video releases like the poster the cover always remained the same they never created a new image.

It's a good poster. That was sort of the floating you know visages of these famous guys. And the blue. And the blue and you got cops

you got cars whatever right it's sort of a classic action movie poster and now he like did his like 4K definitive edition

right and the cover is just the LA skyline from the view of Amy Brenneman's apartment. Like it's just the grid of the lights. Cause that's a great scene where he's talking about it. Like it's CNNM C an enemy.

Yeah. He's talking about the Fiji bio. And he's always trying to get that shit in the background. And you're like, that's what this movie is about. Like, it's just about looking out into that grid. This is also,

it's just part of the like Michael Mann series of films about men who contemplate the ocean. You know, who look at ocean. Well, it's like the painting Pacific that he's doing, right? There's like that famous painting from the 70s where there's a gun on the table and he's like leaning. This is the thing now. That's so dope. It's so good.

I have that. That's what I own. It's just Pacino, De Niro, Kilmer, Heath. Kilmer made it. Kilmer made it. He makes it. All right, so let's play the box office game. December 15th, 1995.

Pacino, De Niro, Kilmer, Piven. Griffin, I think I know it. Well, no, Griffin, go ahead. What do you think is number one on December 15th, 1995? Is Toy Story still running the table? No. What? I'm sorry to report that Toy Story has fallen.

It was number one for three weeks. Right. It came out right before Thanksgiving. Right. And it has fallen to number two in its fourth week. 10 million bucks. How dare they? The highest grossing film of this year.

Sure. 1995. But this is the box office game. But this, you've listened to the podcast. This is another children's film has dethroned it. Heat opens number three. Eight million. Wow.

Make 67. Which is a high multiplier. December 15th, you said? Okay. It's a Trollden film. Is it animated? No, but it's got a lot of like CGI and like, you know, a lot of business. It's a big, it's an effects thing.

Yeah. Honey, I shrunk the kids. I mean, you know, it's that vibe. It's that sort of vibe? Sure. Like big effects, heavy kids movie with a big kid star. With a big exclusively kid star? Exclusively, no.

But like, I mean, that was his niche in the 90s for sure. That was his jam. Interesting. He made a lot of kids movies. I worshipped him as a kid. Like he was in all the movies. If he was in a movie, I had to go see it. Is it a franchise movie?

Well, it wasn't. And then many years later, it became a franchise. Oh, Jumanji? Jumanji. Okay. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah.

Right, I mean, you know. I saw that in theaters. I was like, whatever this is. Plays a board game, they're animals. Yeah, where do I sit? No, of course, it's the-

Remember when Robin, I'm sorry to interrupt. Remember when Robin Williams was the actor for kids? Now it's like fucking a guy named Blippi on YouTube youtube like six million views yeah and like we we had fucking robin williams making movies for us that run from like 90 and 95 where you have like aladdin mrs doubtfire jumanji sure after this you get like flubber right you know this is after this is where

it starts to curdle a little bit but he's still in that zone do you remember then when you went back and watched old robin williams when he was like like i remember when i then finally saw fisher king i'm right holy oh he's a good actor and a comic and like he's on cocaine he did cocaine that's like one of these things that always flips me and my dad was like yeah that was his thing that was that he did cocaine it's not just that he did cocaine he was famously doing cocaine right he did cocaine. He was famously doing cocaine. It's one of those things that blows my mind where you're just like, this is a guy who you must have assumed checking in at the beginning or end of every decade being like, and that's as famous as he's going to get, right? This is the peak, right? For 25 years, it was like, well, he's like a weird stand-up.

He found a perfect sitcom vehicle. This guy isn't going to transition into movies right and then over the course of 10 years he now becomes a successful movie star but like a very serious respected actor with a bunch of oscars and you're just like well it's not going to get any bigger than this and then he has this year where he like makes like five 300 million dollar grocers in a row in the 90s and then caps it off with an oscar and then you're like it's not going to get any bigger than this. And they were like, no, that actually was the picture. We finally got there. It's hard to go much higher. After that he does, you know,

some okay stuff. It took 23 years but he finally just... I feel like also Robin Williams is one of those dudes, like, if he picked up a lacrosse stick instead of a microphone we would be talking about how he's like the most amazing lacrosse stick. You know, like, I just think he's one of those dudes where it's like because i and i think uh there's a plenty of other people that fit in this but the most recent version i think

is donald glover where you're like he's like let me do hip-hop he can do whatever yeah he's like best album and best tv show in the same year it's like that tom cruise thing of just like they have a lot of energy right right like like all like glover even when he was like a UCB guy the thing was like yeah he like doesn't sleep yeah he just like does shit all day but when he was just a sketch guy from Hammercatch you'd be like holy shit this guy's ridiculously talented right then he's like oh man he's 21 and he's writing on 30 rock that's bullshit and then you're like oh wait he's super talented he's like he quit 30 rock what oh to be in community for six seasons? He quit community? What do you think he's going to do? He quits community. You're like, all right, it's over.

He starts rapping. Childish Kevin. Oh, this is silly. He was so good at the other thing. And now he's like, yeah, I own music. I'm the first person to win a Grammy for Record of the Year and Album of the Year. You know what I mean? And he's about to star in the highest grossing film of all time.

Guava Island? Lion King. It does feel like you keep on thinking That he's not going to get any bigger And he's probably going to have a Robin Williams type growth for decades Number two is Toy Story Which gained theaters this week People love Toy Story

Does it reclaim number one? Tell me it reclaims number one I think it pops again over Christmas Yes It reclaims number one two weeks from now Amazing And then it goes to four All over the place Christmas. Yes. It reclaims number one two weeks from now. Amazing. Amazing. And then it goes to four.

All over the place. Alright. Number three is Heat. Number four is a sequel to a comedy that we both have seen more than the movie it's a sequel to. We've seen the sequel more. Wayne's World 2. It's like that, but not Wayne's World 2. Major League 2? No. I don't know if I've ever watched Major League.

It's a good movie. Makes Ben cry. Top to end. I've watched Major League 2 so many times. Major League 2? No. That's one. I don't know if I've ever watched Major League. It's a good movie. Makes Ben cry. Top to end. I've watched Major League 2 so many times. Major League holds. Major League 2. Haysbert. Haysbert's in it. We were just talking about Major League the other day.

Roger Dorn is 35 in that movie. And he's like so. I only remember him as being so old. Right. I'm 37 now. Oh, shit. It's insane. We would be too old to play the Tom Berringer role in that movie now. Brutal.

Can you do this? Sequel to a comedy? The what? Ace Ventura 2 and Nature Calls. Nope. That's number nine. Really? That's in the list.

Can't wait. Can I do this? How much later is the sequel? Or is it a quick? Pretty quick, I think. Okay. This is what? This is 95.

And the other one. Ooh, let's find out. Is this the second and final? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's star driven? This is your guy.

It's your guy. It's star driven. The last one was 91. This is Mike. Is it Father of the Bride Part 2? Bingo. Oh, yeah. I have seen Father of the Bride Part 2

More than I've seen Father of the Bride Of course Everyone has That's the law My guy B.D. Wong Yeah right My favorite comedian

Written and directed by Nancy Meyers Charles Shire But Nancy only wrote it Yeah right Number 5 Is an ill-advised remake Of a classic film

Sabrina? Correct Bingo Bingo Bang Yeah Number five is an ill-advised remake of a classic film. Sabrina? Correct. Bingo. Bingo. Bang. I feel like that's the one that people always throw out. It's the classic. Why'd you remake that?

Right. You got GoldenEye, American President, Casino. People don't talk about how De Niro made two three-hour crime epics in the same fucking month, basically. Holy shit. Yeah. Seriously. People are getting out of casino and they would have dinner and then go back in to see Heat, I guess.

Casino dinner Heat is a nine hour evening. Exactly. And De Niro smiles like eight times combined. And you leave with a and both movies shatter the Bechdel test. Casino, six course lunch at Buco di Beppo. Then you go back into the movie theater at the mall. Marty cooks you lunch. Marty's mom comes on set,

gives everyone eggplant rollatini. Slices you the garlic with a straight razor. Oh boy. That is, I know we talked about a lot of things like in this movie that are erotic without being explicitly erotic.

Nothing is more accidentally erotic in the history of film than Paul Sorvino slicing the garlic with the straight razor. Right? That's the number one.

Well, I think Food Network launched that off that movie. They were like, wait a minute, people really like the slicing of the garlic. They were like,

what if we just showed shit like that all the time? All the time time 24 hours a day yes uh oh it's some other trivia amy brenneman told michael man she didn't like the script and because it was too filled with blood and no one was uh moral and michael man was like yes you're perfect for the role yeah so you got what i was going for exactly yeah. Right. Ted Levine was supposed to play Wayne Groh. Keanu Reeves was supposed to play Chris.

Yeah. The thousand bullets per take is pretty fucking wild, too. You can only imagine what that sounds. They shot that only on weekends,

which means that cost a fortune and like they would wait five days in between set up. I'm sure they were banging on some other stuff in between,

but still that's wild. Could you imagine how much it would have sucked to live in that neighborhood during production? It's like, what's another heat weekend? I think it always sucks to live in that neighborhood, though. Yes, yes, fair enough. It's like downtown LA is not ideal.

I was just staying there. That is a weird place. You were downtown? Yeah. Well, you are downtown Griffey Nims. I'm downtown Griffey Nims. I demanded they book me into a hotel as far as possible from all of my press obligations. Yeah, and they were like, you're sure you want to'm downtown Griffin. I'm saying I demanded they book me into a hotel as far as possible from all of my press. Yeah. And they were like, you're sure you want to do downtown.

You were like, it's the brand baby. Downtown is great. If you are a New Yorker and you're like, Oh, I, but if you want a remotely LA experience, downtown is not it yet.

No, no. It's like, it's still like, Oh, it's cool. It's just like New York. It's like,

I don't want like New York. I want palm trees. And it is all those old historical buildings where you're like, ah, these used to be the great movie palaces. Yeah. And now it's like an abandoned- Now they sell off-brand Spanx.

Right. Now it's like a Lululemon that's going out of business somehow. Right. Now it's a place that sells sequined jumpsuits by the dozen. It's like the Madison Park area where you're like,

you sell only wholesale handbags in this place? How do you stay open? It's either that or like a rat hostel. Right, right. Like you're like, this is just empty? Yeah, we're done. I mean, we only went like two and a half hours. Two and a half?

Yeah, we're done. It's heat. We started talking about the movie at hour one. We had a lot to talk about. We had a lot to talk about. We had a lot to talk about. It's heat. You have to blow that one out. We're not even including Ben's.

Ben, how are we doing, Ben? Ben, have you had anything to eat today? No. Oh, boy. Ben, I said this to Griffin before we recorded, but watching The Heat. I'm watching The Heat. I watched The Heat instead. Sorry, I didn't know what we were talking about this whole time.

Yeah, by the way. I was like, what about Sandy Bullock, huh? Comedy bring her up once. He was bold to call a movie The Heat. Yeah, it's crazy. The Heat. This one's The Heat. No, ignore it.

Like it's The Predator. They did that. That's what I'm saying. That's wild, too. The Wolverine. And then we're going to get The Suicide Squad. Yeah, The Batman. Oh, that movie fucked me.

The Predator ruined me. I was never, I got hyped for it because I believed Shane Black was going to help us in some way. I know. Woof.

Can I give you a hot tip? This isn't for you because it's too late, but for our listeners, I had that same level of just like, he's going to fucking nail this. Yes, he's the one.

When the reviews were bad, I was so bummed out. I couldn't even take myself to see the theater because I knew it depressed me too much. Please, pretty well on a plane. I believe it. With zero expectations on a plane, you're like, they're doing weird shit. The fact that there is

a Tourette's character in a comedy or playing for comedy after Deuce Bigelow makes no sense. I will say the man who directed, not say, the man who directed, not directed, the man who directed that film was Shane Black, the man who edited The Predator,

edited the pilot of The Tick. Yon Tick. And he did not do the series because he was like, yeah, The Predator ended up being a 19-month edit job. Oh, boy. Yeah, yeah. That certainly is a movie that seems edited.

Right, but he was like, it truly- Maybe he should have spent month 20 yeah exactly maybe let's see it one more month but he was saying like

because I was like I watched it on a plane I thought it was pretty good and he was like I think it probably plays better on a plane oh boy and he was also like

he like shot it they proved the script he cast it they delivered it and then they were like wait a second why is this a Shane Black movie right

and it was like it was just months and months of reshoots and re-edits to try to take all the shane black out of it so then the shane black that isn't it is weird very weird that's the problem with that movie right it feels like it keeps being like well let's get back to the plot and i'm like let's definitely not get back to the plot the plot is confusing the plot fully sucks i do not want to talk about the plot like can we just and but even yeah so then the shane black stuff feels like trying too hard it's like everyone is just like saying funny lines right like and you're like can everyone relax it's a movie with like 12 comic relief characters everyone in it is like eight bits

yeah right right and then like a magical autism which always is like you know who's good in it is uh trivante rhodes he's the only one who kind of has everything down. That guy is so good. Yes, he is. Keegan, who's Trevante Rhodes? Remind me. He's the guy from Moonlight. He's the one guy who buddies up with Boyd Goldberg. He's so hot. He's the guy who says he shot himself in the head. Where's Keegan-Michael Key?

He's dialed to one zillion in that thing. Although him and Thomas Jane's death is the best in the movie. Some of the deaths are fun. But no, Trevante Rhodes, you're just like, it sucks that this didn't do well because he should have gotten his own franchise coming

out of that. I even kind of like the dude, the bad guy from Logan. But Holbrook, I think is okay. He's a lot of style. I mean, he's like one of those like.

He makes sense for like a predator type movie, but it just like. He's good. Yeah. I mean, he's in that headland zone, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. I like him a little more. I think he's got a little more offbeat energy. I like Headland. I'll go to bat for Headland. Me too. I like Headland too. I'm not anti-Headland.

I certainly put Headland above Hunnam, you know? Oh, I'm anti-Hunnam and I watch every episode of Sons of Anarchy. Just let him be British in a movie. If we're talking about Holbrook, Hunnam... I love him if he's British. I love him if he's British. Yeah, just be British. Leglocity is that. I love that. Yeah, that's actually pretty good. I don him be British in a movie. If we're talking Holbrook, Hunnam. I love him if he's British. Leglocity is that. I love that. That's actually pretty good. I don't like him in that movie.

We've talked about this and that's my one issue. If you swapped fucking Hunnam and Pattinson, probably would have been my favorite movie that year. But Pattinson is like, I will not play a clean man. No, no. The beard will grow. No more sparkles on me. It is funny that it is like Hunnam, Holbrook

and Hedlund. Like the three Sandy Blonde age boys who all are sort of doing tough guy patois but look like models. Yeah, you're right. They have similar names but this guy kind of breaks that pattern but he fits Joel Kinnaman. He's also one of those guys

like, because my wife has two types and they're that world of like scrawny mousy like blondes and big heavyset dark bearded guys. Right. They all have this sort of

like affected tough guy. Yeah. Like Hoyt Holbrook could have been in Triple Frontier and we might not even have noticed. Right. He could have swapped out for a whole scene

from someone casting and get Headland as brothers in Triple Frontier is like the funniest joke in the world that is like so funny yeah

it's brilliant no one ever thought to do that before right because they've always been like coin toss guys exactly is this Hunnam

I don't even care who's Arthur I don't care who fucking cares did we say that on Mike the Arthur thing it's like one whole movie about him learning how to use a sword?

Yes, we said that. Five hours ago on this episode. Ring it up. We're ready to rock and roll. Okay, thank you all for listening. Is there anything you need to plug? Yeah, you got a plug. Oh yeah, for you movie fans out there, I do a weekly podcast called Action Boys.

If you like reviews longer than the movies themselves, that's exactly what we do for classic action movies from like the mid-70s to like late 90s. We kind of keep it in that world. And it's, you know, I'm a huge fan and I love talking about movies, so I'm pumped to be here. Check out Action Boys.

And then High and Mighty, which I've been on twice to talk about the Fast and Furious franchise. Standing. Standing. You will be doing it. Hobbs and Shaw. Yeah, we're going to.

Center a flight around doing it. You might be my first Skype interview if you have to be. I'll get on a fucking plane because we need to feel that energy. Because the one we did for one through seven ended with both of us crying. Yes, which I thought was. And we had kind of known each other, but I was like, we both kind of talked about it online a little bit. And I'm like, Griffin, would you want to get together?

And we got so into it. We truly were crying at the end of the episode. Came back for eight, which was sort of a dissection of what we thought had gone wrong. Yeah. And we ended that with my favorite, we pitched nine. Right. And we pitched ourselves with characters. What is nine?

I heard a really good scoop, and I'm going to tell you guys the second we finish recording. I had a whole pitch for 9, too. I bet they're not doing it. I heard some hot shit, and I can't believe I haven't told you yet. Fast and Furious is so good that I showed Joanna, my girlfriend, all of them before 8,

because she'd never seen any of them. And then she recently asked me, she's like, when's 9 out? Because I want to do it again. That's the best thing you could say about Fast and Furious. That you're excited for a new movie because you want to see all the other

ones. You want to have an excuse to soak in it. Fast and the Furious and now also the Mission Impossible movies have saved me from Marvel. Like, has saved me emotionally from Marvel in that I'm like, okay, I want big budget action. Oh, Marvel has me. I see everything opening up.

You're saying, right. This is what I'm looking forward to is big budget action movies that don't have cartoons in them. Right. And I think Fast and Furious is doing that. It's doing Marvel movies just with only a suspension of disbelief. Right.

I'm worried that they will have cartoons. You want to tell us this thing off mic? No, okay. Oh, I do. And I'm also going to, I'm going to tell you a thing that our guest Alex Ross Perry said because I want to get your reaction

on Mike as the final thing of the episode so thank you all for listening please remember rate review subscribe thanks to Andrew Goodall for our social media Joe Bowen Pat rounds for our artwork Lane Montgomery for our theme song go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit go to T public for some real nerdy

shirts go to patreon for a blank check bonus features where we are covering all the Marvel movies. Oh yeah. Oh, fun. And as always, as suggested by Alex Ross Perry, if I can get your real-time reaction to this, imagine the alternate universe in which Michael Mann had made Mission

Impossible 3. Thank you. Now I wouldn't skip one in the rewatch. Okay, so here's what I heard about Fast and Furious 9.