Blank Check with Griffin & David - Here

Episode Date: November 10, 2024

We apologize in advance if you had a profound emotional experience with the new Robert Zemeckis joint - HERE felt like more of a “Here?? What???? Why?” to us. Dinosaurs, Benjamin Franklin’s cuck son, a man dying from laughter, a horny couple who invent the LA-Z Boy, airplane man (who does NOT die from airplane), and the double whammy of the Black Lives Matter movement and Covid all come together to create a strange boomer diorama that misses much of the quotidian beauty of Richard McGuire’s graphic novel. Will Bobby Z. ever make a good movie again? Griffin’s not feeling bullish on the prospects. The Box Office Game is Sponsored by Regal Cinemas: Sign up for Regal Unlimited today and get 10% off your 3 month subscription when using code BLANKCHECK Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This was our studio. We podcasted here. Good job. Thank you. Tom Hanks' voice has gotten so interesting. Please, this is more interesting than the movie. Yeah. Anything we can talk about that's not, no, I'm joking. How's his voice got, he's got a distinctive voice,

I would say, right? Yes. Sort of a famous voice. Yes. Sometimes he says, Yikes! Buzz, I'm going gonna go absolutely berserk! And then this one time he said that life was like a,

I don't know, package or something? Yeah, he said, Buzz, life is like a box of chocolates! No, he's got a distinct voice, but you're saying it's gotten a little more gravelly? What are you saying? He's entered some sort of like, there is a, um, elder statesman, Spencer Tracy, Burt Lancaster, like bottom to his voice.

I feel like he now has this like quiet resonance that is unsurprising that comes not just with age and people's voices lowering pitch, but also that sense of just like security? Experience. Right, and I feel like whenever he's doing press or he's doing classic Tom, it's the best thing about a new Tom Hanks movie coming out very often. Oh yeah, he's out on the talk shows,

he goes to Conan. And he's just incredible, and he goes and he's telling the stories and whatever. And then like I started to clock it in Toy Story 4, where I was like, oh, he's playing like a more contemplative Woody. And now Woody sounds old, And then, like, I start to clock it in Toy Story 4, where I was like, oh, he's playing, like, a more contemplative Woody. And now Woody sounds old, and I feel like,

Toy Story 4, great movie, Tim Allen sounds old in the Toy Story films now in a way where you're like, this guy's maybe just done some damage to his voice. Sure. Right, like, he's like, Woody, come on! Like, he's just kind of, whereas, like, Tom Hanks is, like, settling into something that I cannot approximate because I'm a stupid child.

Yeah, you're doing a lot of different voices, right? Right. But it like hit me watching here that it's one of the things that immediately for me started to rub me the wrong way. Beyond the eeriness of the de-aging or his posture, any of that stuff, I'm like, the voice that is coming out of him as a 20-year-old is a man who's lived through shit. And when you get to the end of the movie and he's able to sit with that voice and play it, I'm like, what a fucking incredible instrument. And Wes Anderson has talked about this as well. Who he is so fucking well- As straight city, incredible performer.

And is in the next movie as well. What's the next movie called again? The Finencia Scheme. The what? I believe it's called the Finencia Scheme. Am I wrong about this? No believe it's called the Finencia scheme. Am I wrong about this? No, it's called the Phoenician scheme. Okay.

Phoenician. I was like, what's this word he's saying? No, the Phoenician scheme with Tom Hanks and Michael Cera's in this. Michael Cera and Bessa Del Toro are the two leads. Bessa Del Toro, Bill Murray. I believe there's a young girl who is the third lead of the film. Yeah Benicio del Toro, Bill Murray. By all accounts, and then I believe there's a young girl who is the third lead of the film.

Yeah, and then I just, I love that Hanks is being added to the stock company. And Wes Anderson in an interview talked about how, like, the way he used Master Raid City was really kind of like him entering full elder Jimmy Stewart level. Like, this guy represents some idea of America. There is like an unflashy, just sort of like solidity to him now that just like emanates out of his pores. That is, in my eyes, one of the interesting things that he has to work with, and I don't

totally know what they do with him, But in trying to do a shitty impression of him to start this episode, it just made me think about it. Yeah. This is this is a blank check Griffin David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. I was just thinking about when Wes Anderson won an Oscar like last year for the Henry Sugar movie didn't show up didn't show up and cool as hell. There wasn't much of a like sort of it was just kind of like, uh, I accept for him, whoever it was. Yeah. Do we know who accepted?

I totally forgot. I'll look it up. Yeah. And that just kind of happened and he made those, that the, the, the, those shorts for Netflix that in my opinion should just be one film that I can watch. I agree. Maybe it is now. Haven't checked.

I don't think so. I think it still isn't film that I can watch. I agree. Maybe it is now? Haven't checked. I don't think so. I think it still isn't. Maybe I'm wrong. But also just did that in the same year that he released one of his better feature films. My opinion is right. The best things he's ever done.

That basically goose egged from every goddamn awards body. Yeah. Anyway. Love that movie. Yeah. More mixed on today's movie. Here we are on Blank Check with Griffin and David. We're here.

And you know, joy and hope and loss and love and life happen here at the Czech Republic, our studios, but also in this 104-ish minute movie that Robert Zemeckis has made for us. In 2020, Robert Zemeckis won our March Madness competition. Ugh. I just need to say the things. Yeah, no, you're not wrong. I believe that series was called Pod to the Fuchcast. Was it really?

I mean, that's the best I can remember. You might be surprised to hear that a lot of that year... No, it was called Podcast Away. But I think you like complained a bunch of it and called like, you know, shit out of a butt. No, what I said was buzz. I said pod to the future cast. You're right.

It was called Podcast Away. Podcast Away. But we did cover the films of Robert Zemeckis on this podcast where we cover the film films of Robert Zemeckis on this podcast where we cover the filmographies of directors in 2020. We did do that. And since then, Mr. Zemeckis has blessed us with two additional feature films. Yeah.

Now, some people love this movie. Pinocchio! Remember that one? Yeah. How was Tom Hanks' voice doing in that movie? I? Love Tom Hanks. I think he's a great actor. I think he takes a lot of risks. I You know as I know what exactly what I like about him I was texting with a couple friends about like is here gonna hurt Tom Hanks, and I'm like I think Hanks is bulletproof at this point. I think he's an American institution.

He could make a lot of shitty movies, doesn't really matter. He'll be a legend for the rest of his life. I even think like bankability doesn't really affect him at this point. Yeah, people will turn out to be the ones they wanna see. Totally. And he like, well always.

Man called Otto made money. It did, that's the thing. Like some of his marginal ones quietly do really well. Like I think Greyhound is like the most watched thing in the history of Apple still maybe. Yep. Ben's looking on with recognition at these things that came out. Happened to remember when he was like, he, what?

Remember that Elvis? Yeah. Yeah. A big hit. Sure. Not only a big hit, but a absolutely daring performance. Maybe not one that worked for everyone, but it's not like he was like,

yeah, put some makeup on me and I'll be like, hey, I'm Colonel Parker, and not make a fucking effort. He's like, no, I've got a whole fucking thing. This is an interesting point. I wanna say there's almost been a bifurcation of Hanks. Hanks had this legendary, for a while he had the most, the longest run of consistent $100 million grosses of any movie star.

Uh, he, the famously in the nineties, yes. Right. I think there's like a 12 to 13 film run without exception, you know? And like that run is starting after like things like the fucking, that thing you do counting against him or whatever, which you shouldn you shouldn't right it's just like a He made a lot of hits and that was an era where we think of like a kind of like Golden Age movie star career Where it's like if Tom Hanks is the star the American public shows up material that feels difficult tough

Uncommercial he single-handedly gets butts in scenes. Times have changed. I would contend there is no star who would be able to turn something like Road to Perdition into a summer blockbuster single-handedly. No, probably not. In the way that he could. And since then, I would say there has almost been this bifurcation of Hanks where it's like he does commercial things. You're Robert Langdon movies, right?

You know, like to a certain degree, auto is like this is just like kind of straight down the middle, you know, across the plate. Greyhound was meant to be that and then ended up going to stream it on a bad movie and then as you said he tries really daring shit.

It feels like in a certain way him being freed up from every movie needing to be a blockbuster allows him to be like., I wanna use my cloud to get Cloud Atlas made. And if Cloud Atlas is a hit, that'll be great. And if not, I don't care. Happy I made it. I can survive it, right? Elvis feels like the one example of him

in a big commercial movie doing an insane thing. But like, it's funny that Elvis and Pinocchio were the same year because they're two, let's slap a bunch of makeup on Tom Hanks and he's gonna do a voice and like, let's slap a bunch of makeup on Tom Hanks and he's going to do a voice and it'll be crazy, kind of Cloud Atlas vibes. In Elvis, that performance certainly did not work for everyone, but he's doing something.

If Pinocchio, it felt like one minute before he started filming, he had it on his phone and he was like, how does your better talk? Yeah, kind of like that. Okay. Pinocchio, what's up with you? That was it. Yes. It's interesting that his work with Robert Zemeckis has now started to feel his most autopilot-y. So how many films has Tom Hanks made?

So we're talking about Robert Zemeckis. Five? New film called Here. Here. Here. And they have made, you're saying five films together. So those films are? Forest Gump. Forest Gump.

Heard of it, Ben? Yup. Cast Away. Cast Away, great movie. Better than Forest Gump. Cast Away. Cast Away, great movie. Better than Forest Gump. Hard agree. The Polar Express. Uh oh. Uh oh. It's not looking good. Pinocchio Here. Correct. I'm not forgetting one am I?

No. No. No you're not. No. No, no you're not. No. No. No, you're not. What's it, okay, in between the Gulf of Polar Express and Pinocchio, which is almost 20 years. Yes. Is there a Zemeckis movie he could have popped up

in that he would have been, I mean, like, so like obviously you're Beowulf, Christmas Carol, you know, no, forget that, right? I mean, sure, so like, obviously you're Beowulf, Christmas, Carol, you know, no. Oh, you forget that, right? You know, I mean, sure, he could do those, but like, he already did that. There's a version of Hanks doing flight. That makes sense. Interesting. But obviously you don't really want to lose the Denzel performance there.

I think Denzel is the best person who could have possibly played that role. There is a Hanks version of it that makes sense. And of course people tend to conflate flight in Sully. They do. Uh, but oneanks version of it that makes sense. And of course, people tend to conflate Flight and Sully. They do. But one landing, well, both landing successful. The Sully landing definitely less dramatic. Nobody rolled it. Yeah.

Do you know this in fact? What's that? Then the movie Flight, he rolled it. Oh yeah. What's his name in that film? Skip Skippington? Doesn't he have some? Flight, Flidington.

Twist, Cali. His name is Whip Whittaker. Thank you. Yes. I think Whip Whittaker. Thank you. I think Whip is a nickname. Yeah, what a fucking name. The walk, I mean, Hanks, I guess, could have been a guy who's like, hey, get down from there.

He wouldn't fit in allied. He wouldn't really fit in allied again, unless it was in some supporting role. In Marwen, he's kind of too old for it, but there's a time when he would be interesting in that. Ten years earlier, he would have been the Marwen guy. In The Witches, he could have been Tucci, I guess, if that's something anyone wanted. By the way, here's another interesting thing about Hanks, that he'll, like, not feel the need to be the guy in the movie anymore.

He will let himself sometimes be a stock company player. It's just almost more interesting. But all of those feel too big for him. You're like, if he was the Ben Kingsley part in the walk, it would destabilize the movie. But it feels interesting that he makes three very successful films for Robert Zemeckis. I don't think the Polar Express is good,

but these are all successful films. Three blockbusters. Big hits. Yeah. Gets Oscar nominations for two of them and wins one for one of them. I think it was for Polar Express, I'd have Big hits. Yeah. Gets Oscar nominations for two of them and wins one for one of them. I think it was for Polar Express, I'd have to check. Yeah.

And then like 18 years later or whatever, Zemeckis is like, hey, you wanna fucking beat Geppetto and fucking this Pinocchio horse shit that's going to DisneyPlus.com? I would contend the least existent work either of them has ever done. Right. And he's like, yeah, sure. And then Zemeckis after that is like, okay, do you also want to be in a reunion with Robin Wright in a much, you know, bigger sort of pitch of a movie?

Do you remember how excited we were when this was announced? Of course, it's not him phoning it in the original deadline story, but it was like, Robert Zemeckis is making a $50 million adult drama starring Tom Hanks and Robin Wright, once again written by Eric Roth, that spans centuries and takes place in one house. And I was like, that sounds like exactly what I want my man to do.

And here it is, and some people like this movie. Yep. But I'm gonna warn everyone. We did not is, and some people like this movie. Yep. But I'm going to warn everyone. We did not. That it didn't work for you. We had a very, I think we had a pretty profoundly negative experience watching this. Now I would say, and we don't want to get too much into the events of the world because what a bummer it is.

But it must be said. We did watch this the day after election day. Maybe we weren't in a great mood. No, we went to see it with Marie, who is not on this episode. But who we love and who always cheers me up. Of course, one of our favorite people, a dear member of our family.

But she in text was like, guys, what if this movie hits us so hard? Sure, right? What if we are in a kind of like vulnerable place and I was like ready for- All this boomer heart-stream pulling. I was ready for distinct possibility. I want to love this movie, right?

And we'll zoom out from this in a second, but I want to love this movie. I was so prepared for distinct possibility where I'm like, this thing might just poke me in the bruise and totally break me and be some catharsis point. And this episode might just be me offering qualifiers of like, you know what, I don't know if this movie works, but it made me cry a bunch.

And maybe I'm just in that day, you know? Yeah. And I feel like it instead had the opposite thing, where you and I were sitting there and we were just like, today of all days, I have no patience for this. I truly kind of was like, it felt like a family member kind of trying to sit me down and be like, but let me tell you about like,

that sort of broken promise of the post-war. And I'm like, I don't care right now. Shut the fuck up. I was like, literally the last thing I need on my plate. You're telling me you had a nice living room? That sounds great. Ben, you saw this film Horizon Style two days before us, I think. Yep.

And by Horizon Style, I mean in a theater with no one else. What was the movie theater you saw this in, producer Ben? Village East. One of our favorite screens in New York City. Exactly, not only did you see it alone in a theater, you saw it alone in a gigantic, it's like a former synagogue or something. It's this temple of cinema where we've seen

like hateful aid on 70 mil, or these kind of cool movie experiences. You're sitting in like a balcony and the whole theater is empty. Yeah. Yep, I went to a 9.30 screening. On a Monday night, like right after it came out. It wasn't like you going to see Horizon

in like Astoria at midnight on a Wednesday. It was like, you saw it on its fourth day of release. At a late evening time, but like not late, late. No, it was surprising. It was really surprising that I was the only one there. late evening time, but like not late late. No, it's, it was surprising. It was really surprising that I was the only one there. Marie got to the theater. I think at the exact moment our show time was supposed to start at the Alamo. Right.

12 45. Uh, it was supposed to start like the movie, like obviously it's the ads and stuff was still, and the door was closed, right? And not able to be opened. I got here at 1246, and it was roped off. They had to open the theater just for me. And then you and I both got there in the following five minutes. Then one other guy walked in, and then a woman walked in,

I want to say like 15 minutes into the movie. It was basically the five of us watching here, the earliest show time that Brooklyn had to offer the morning after election day. Now here's here, here, here. And where I got a lot to say about this film. I do think it's interesting to talk about. And I apologize to everyone who had a profound emotional experience for this

film and is going to be really frustrated with hearing us shit on it. And I wanna make it clear, it gives me no pleasure. I so badly wanted to like this thing. And to this point, I think I can say this, our friend Esther Zuckerman saw this like months ago. Sure. And you sent me screen grabs of her over text telling you. Explaining the movie, not like spoiling things,

but just sort of like laying out for me what the movie is. And we'll talk about the book. I know I'm putting like 80,000 pins on the board, but for a while it was like, what is this movie? Like, what is this going to be? And the book doesn't feel, there are a lot of different ways you could adapt it, right? So I'm just like, I have no conception

of what this is gonna be. And then Esther sends this text having just seen it being like holy shit guys I saw here and she's like the whole movie is approximating one shot from one angle the corner of a house It starts with dinosaurs Tom Hanks ages like 70 years like all this shit and She's like it's bad and you and I are texting each other and going like, this shit sounds incredible. And Esther's going like, guys, no, you have to believe me, it's bad.

And you and I kept saying, I refuse to believe that isn't good. Everything she's saying to try to convince us it doesn't work, I cannot imagine the reality in which I don't find that so compelling. Like she was describing like a Michael Hancock movie or something, I was just like, what? You're telling me he's made something daring.

Yes. How could, right, how could this at least not be interesting? And Esther was like, it doesn't really work. It just doesn't work. And I was just like, look, how am I going to disagree with Esther on this? Our tastes usually align, but she just must be off the mark here. Then I saw the first trailer and I was like, oh, it's got this. Arte is usually a line, but she just must be off the mark here. Then I saw the first trailer and I was like, oh, it's got this. And at this point, it is like, it is my cilantro. I feel like

at this point, I basically have the same like guttural physical reaction to Late Stage Zemakis by and large that a lot of our listeners have with M. Night Shyamalan and a lot of culture at large where they listen to our Shyamalan episodes and they're like, how could these guys... These people are high, right. They're just in another dimension. It's obviously bad. It just doesn't work.

Where I like see the Heer trailer and it's the same way I felt when I saw the Marwen trailer after I'd been so excited at the idea of him adapting that documentary, you know, where I end the same with the walk, where I'm just like this look that I described in text to you yesterday as looking like a bowl of plastic fruit, where everything is just like too shiny and controlled and feels hollow and has like no weight spatially, you know, this like meticulous approximation of things where I'm like, why not just shoot it? And every performance feels like way too bright

and overstated, every line of dialogue super didactic. And Sylvester is going ham. And I'm just like, immediately my teeth hurt. Immediately, I see the hero trailer and I'm like, fuck. This is the version of this movie that doesn't work for me. And even still, I'm getting texts from friends being like, looks like your boy Bobby Z is shit in the bed again. Hero interesting. Oh no, okay, right. Yeah.

Just from the trailer. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, this looks like a disaster. And I'm like, I believe. I believe. And they're like, have you heard good things? I'm like, no, I've only heard bad things. At this point, more people have messaged me who have seen the movie and are like, it doesn't work. And I'm like, I really I've only heard bad things at this point more people have messaged me who have seen the movie and are like It doesn't work and I'm like I really kind of believe in this and I think in the last two weeks

I finally got broken down where I was starting to dread it just because I'd started to hear such overwhelmingly negative stuff now it feels like Defenders have popped up. There's a lot of def- I think my letterbox for here, well, I'm sounding like Woody just got asked to, you know, give a doll his voice box for us. Buzz! My letterbox friends are mixed to positive, I would say, on here. No, we walked out of the theater, you checked the letterbox

and you were like, huh, all- most of my mutuals seem to like it. Our friend Sean Fantasy is a fan and I think defended it on his show and had a take that I was like, that's an interesting take, Sean. Unfortunately, I was not engaged by the film whatsoever. Can I just read this quickly? The Deadline story announcing the film. And it was presented as like buzzy package hits market, right? Simon Kinberg to write and produce

a Star Wars trilogy for Disney. That's what it says? It is happening again. They just have to keep finding like kind of less and less impressive names, no offense to Simon Kinberg to roll. It's like Jay Roach, like who is it gonna be next? I wanna say once again, no offense to Simon Kinberg.

Or Jay Roach. But there is a real like we are stuck in it Like, who is it gonna be next? I wanna say once again, no offense to Simon Kinberg. Or J.F. Rowes. But there is a real, like, we are stuck in a, like, toxic time loop thing of, like, it is 2024. Donald Trump has been elected president and Disney confidently announces a new trilogy of Star Wars films. The trilogy! It's coming! We're gonna complete or have a new Star Wars trilogy. Who's in charge of it? You know, one of the fucking guys who does franchise shit who's around available of them

Standalones is the name and Lindelof will be cooking something up for us You know am I wrong and thinking this is the third time they have announced that someone is going to create a trilogy So it's Ryan Johnson was the first. Then Benioff and Weiss. Then Benioff and Weiss. And now Pinvert. God, how about Benioff and Weiss? But I'm like three times now they've been like, look, I know you guys have been haranguing us

for failing to make one Star Wars movie in six years. Or whatever it's been, five years. I don't, you know. But we confidently are gonna make three more. Anyway, what does the Deadline story about here say? I was just trying to remember how they described what is the deadline story about here, say? I was just trying to remember how they described it in the original story, right?

Based on McGuire's graphic novel, here is described as a breathtaking and revolutionary odyssey through time and memory. The innovative story is centered around a place in New England where from wilderness and then later a home, love, loss, struggle, hope, and legacy play out between couples and families over generations. Do you remember how exciting it was to read that?

Sounds cool. And you're just like, what is this even? Let's just forefront it. Yeah. I think you and I both conceptually are so in the bag for what this movie is trying to do. Sure. I think it like visually, cinematically, even like thematically, like you describe the elements of this movie to me,

much like Esther did. And I'm like, I'm gonna like this. I hear people like fantasy and Amy Nicholson, our friends whose tastes I respect immensely, describe the experience they had watching the movie and I'm like, what you just described to me sounds like exactly what I want to get out of this. And I think you and I just both felt that the emotional execution of this movie is so disastrous. I would say yes.

On top of the over-cranking of these sort of like Zemeckis sugary visuals and like, you know, the way I feel about late period Sylvester scores is I think how you often feel about Thomas Newman, where I'm just like, can you please cool it down? Yeah. You don't need to play every key. But I do need to, I needed some clarification on certain things like, you know, what the airplane guy died of and, you know, whether or not anything was up with Robin Wright's memory. That was not, that was very, very subtle stuff and I couldn't really like grab

on. Ben's smiling. He picked up on the clues. I couldn't. I'm not that kind of an intelligent viewer. This is the kind of thing that emotionally alien hits me more than anything else in a movie is basically this feeling of a movie having no faith in its audience, and needing to have everyone directly state and then restate three more times every single thing that's going on. Where I'm just like, I find it so distancing, even when the film is trying to depict things that I should find emotionally accessible

and universal and poignant, you know? Like you could describe scenes of this movie to me and make them sound like they were. And the problem is, as the film is dramatized, it feels like the characters are describing the scenes they are living through in real time. Way too much, way too much. Is it the, I already said this, so you guys off mic, but the, the,

the oh hello live show joke, the police, that's who you are, wait, wait, well, ladies on the phone, you know, that kind of dialogue is like, so my thing is, is just joke. The police, that's who you are. Wait, well, AD's on the phone. That kind of dialogue is like, so my thing is, is just over and over again what people are saying in the room. Even Malini's recent bit that I rewatched last night on Seth Meyers, where he said,

I've read the script for the Saturday Night movie and I want to read, do a dramatic reading of one of the scenes. It was not really the script from Saturday Night. Of course. A movie where I had slightly similar issues, I thought we'd do better than here, where he's like, here's a scene from the movie Saturday Night. Lauren Michaels hails a cab. Hello, excuse me, my name is Lauren Michaels,

will you please take me to 30 Rock? I have to do a new show, it's called Saturday Night. Cabbie, that'll never work. Lauren Michaels, shut up, you stupid fucking Cabbie. It's going to be so successful and good at sketch comedy. And like Saturday night is, feels deeply nuanced in the way the characters define and introduce themselves in relation to here. And which let's just say is adapted from a book that I think is like a staggering work. Anytime I've mentioned that I'm doing an episode on this film to my friends, a couple people have asked I'm like here and they're like don't know what that is and I'm like it's this movie with Tom Hanks it's like in theaters now Sony was releasing it wide and they're like yeah no I don't know what

you're talking about and I'm like yeah it's like set from one perspective and they're like, yeah, no, I don't know what you're talking about. And I'm like, yeah, it's like set from one perspective. And they're like, oh, like that comic book. And I'm like, yes, the one called that you clearly read. And yet you're not even aware of this movie. Yeah. And they're like, oh, that comic was really good. I'm like, well, and I'm not going to do a like I'm going to try my hardest, but it really isn't my feeling to avoid doing a persnickety griffin. Here's what the book did right and why did they change any of this shit?

Because I think the book is a profound work, but it is. It's not like a one-to-one thing. You can't turn it into a movie. No, in fact, it is a work perfect for dramatic reinterpretation. Right. I think like the movie should be trying to do its own thing. I just kind of feel like it got the equation wrong of what it should have

kept from the book and what it should have dropped. But let's just say Richard Maguire, who's a deeply fascinating guy, is like one of these guys who has just had an incredibly varied career across several fields was like an 80s East Village art scene guy. He was in a band. Have you ever heard of Liquid Liquid, Ben? Yes. Like 80s art rock band. He was the bassist in that band. Probably best known because their bass line from a song called Cavern was used in the famous song White Lines. Don't do it.

The famous rap song from the 80s about how coke is bad. Don't do coke. I did a little digging on this. I won't. Liquid Liquid was on a very small indie label. No, I'm not gonna. You should do it. small indie label. I don't, no. I'm not gonna. Yeah, you should do it.

No, David, I don't want to. I think you should give it a shot right now. This episode's going poorly. Yeah, why not? If not on the Here episode, then when? What happened on the Here episode? They started doing cocaine? They started doing lines.

Okay, Richard McGuire, yeah, sort of 80s art house, art scene guy, was in Liquid Liquid. I just want to call this out, this thing I didn't know digging in, right? Liquid Liquid released a couple of APs on a very small label. White Lines comes out, is a big hit song. They're immediately like, that sounds exactly like the fucking bass line from Cavern. Which this is, the guy who wrote this book is the guy who wrote that bass line and performed it, right? Like the thing that is their legacy. This small record label sues, I believe it was Sugar Hill Records released it. You're correct.

And gets involved in a years long legal battle that ends up bankrupting them. Sugar Hill ends up declaring bankruptcy to get out of paying the penalties. And liquid liquids label went under from the cost of the legal expenses. And both labels went under as a result of this and like no one got paid because. Wow. Kind of just like an interesting almost dare I say Gumpian. Wow. This guy has like had these weird moments in different fields, cross culture, whatever.

Right. He does a six-page strip called Here that is published in RAW, the infamous comics magazine. That he expanded, right? That then turned into a bigger... That's in 1989. The book is not published until 2014. Well, it took him a while.

The book is an entirely different thing. So like Here is very much like six pages of identical panels, black and white, very simple line style. And it's just this idea of what if you saw the passage of time moving backwards and forwards and fragment from all from one corner, right? And then the book doesn't like repurpose that specific strip. It's like 25 years later, he was like, is there a fuller work to be done with this kind of idea in Conceit? The book is incredible.

The book is also almost in a way reads more like an installation piece. Right. Right? And this movie feels like theater. Yes. I guess is the sort of like way to excuse its creakiness. Which I'm on board to excuse that. Not saying theater is creaky, but it feels like a sort of, you know, bar-towny kind of...

What I'm saying about this being a work that should be flexible for reinterpretation into different mediums, right? Because here the book is really making the most of being a book in a Scott McCloud kind of like, what are the unique things you can only do in the format of comics way? And it has the sort of like... I'm happy I don't have to understand the comics.

Yeah, the Chris Ware, like, is this a uniquely good format for showing the passage of time and dilation and perspectives and things like that? But then there's also like... He's pulling something out. I'm pulling the book out. It's like this beautiful, like deeply colorful. Yeah, the colors are so cool.

Yes. And you have these sort of like... Is that character yelling because he's hard of hearing in one ear? We'll get to it. The bulk, basically all the emotional emotional thrust of the movie are not in the book at all. There are certain incredibly specific scenes, moments, lines that are adapted one to one.

This scene in which someone has a heart attack laughing at a joke. That is not a scene that worked for me in the movie. I would agree. Upsetting. Yeah, kind of, but also just stupid. Weirdly, a lot of the Benjamin Franklin, Jason stuff, basically all of that is in here. OK, that makes sense that because it was kind of like,

what a specific thing to include. Lazy boy couple fully invented for the movie. Pilot and his wife fully invented for his movie. I'm shaking my head. Yeah. And I like the lazy boy couple. Yes. Modern black couple dealing with the struggles of America,

fully invented for this movie. Not surprised to hear that. There are things that are then placed into the Paul Bettany, Kelly Riley, Tom Hanks, Robin Wright, sort of family generation story that are scenes that are in the book, but those characters don't exist as like through lines. So like the scene of like calling someone unseen

to tell them dad took a fall, he broke his hip, he's gonna have to move in and live in our couch. And then the argument where he's yelling at him over and over again, the dad's hearing is too bad and he's like, I'm just joking, I was kidding you. Like there are things like that. But especially within the art style, there's not like, oh, I'm mostly watching this through the perspective of one guy changing.

The book is really good at just kind of giving you abstracted fragments, which I would love to see the version of this that is just like full conceptual, almost installation piece film art, right? But that's not getting a $50 million Sony budget. I'm also super into the idea of trying to do a more kind of like emotional spine, more conventional narrative, solid character through line to hang your hat on version of this story, because you can do that.

And have it be multi-generational, right? Zero in on that aspect. But the book isn't doing that. And even the way he draws people, like it is sometimes hard to tell if the characters you're seeing are characters you've seen before, rather than just tracking like,

oh, 1947 he seems to be showing a guy in a similar outfit. Right? But the characters aren't specific. The book really feels voyeuristic in a way that is interesting. Did you jack it to it? Yes. Wow. Crazy. Ben didn't like me saying that.

It's like elliptical, where you're like not getting a lot of context. That does sound pretty hot. The kind of thing that gets me rock hard. What I like is like voyeur-ship, but it has to be elliptical and without a lot of content David yes, you know what we like If you had to name one thing that you and I show like on this we love the movies Movies and what do we love we love going to see the movies at the theaters. That is very, very true. It's very important to us. The theater experience is worth preserving, is the best way to experience a movie.

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Off your three month subscription and you can go see movies. I go to the regal Essex a lot That's sort of my local regal. I'll go back. Where do you go? I go to Union Square because they got the 40x a classic right you like the 40x. Yeah, I love the 40x David regal Can I just show you and I'll just describe quickly what is quietly one of my favorite spreads in the book. And then let's move on for the I know,

I know, but I just I think it's important to talk about a little bit. I'm not going to compare everything one to one. This is a two page spread that is basically just a collection and it's a visual device he uses in the film that's really interesting

where you have this main one static shot from this one angle, but then within that, like kind of comic book panels will appear, very like Ang Lee Hulk glimpses into other images. So he'll sort of be like, primarily this scene is about the couple in the 20s, but then here is a small rectangle of where Tom Hanks in 1974 would be in the same

space, right? It feels like in the movie they mostly use it as like transitions or doing like very blunt one to ones of like, here's a woman giving birth and then now here's a square next to her of an indigenous woman giving birth hundreds of years ago. And you're like, okay, I'm just seeing the same action two times. To just remind me like, do you realize other people gave birth? This is a two page spread that is basically

shattered into a ton of little boxes with the years next to them of just things being dropped or broken. Right? It's like, here's like two wine glasses, here's a plate, here's like a framed painting falling off a wall and it's just like here's every time something has fallen and crashed on the ground within this plot of land

Basically, and then the other thing happening this box in this spread the only other the only tax Outside of the years is just every insult someone has set in this house, but disembodied from people. These are such fun ideas. Weirdo. They're in the movie, right? Doofus. Nerd. Square.

Shithead. No, none of it. Where you're just like, oh, this is the thing that's kind of profound is to think of like these things that are sort of meaningless. Oh, across different years, what are the different words you use to insult someone? You know? And like, what are the different kind of small incidental damages? These are like innocuous insults and like life's little indignities of like, ah, god damn it, I dropped

this that start to feel more important versus this movie wants to keep showing us incredibly important things and telling us how important they are. And the thing that I think like accumulates extreme profundity in the book is you just not really understanding more about the lives you're seeing in a certain way. You're getting these little glimpses and the span of it is so wide and goes into like the fucking far off future. Yeah. Which is cool. Its scope is insane. It would be cool if the house came like a rocket ship.

There's, there's a stretch that is like at some point in a thousand years in the future, where it's like a teacher basically giving an instructional on weird objects that our ancestors used to use. And they're using like holograms to explain what a key and a wallet and a watt were. And you're like, this shit rules, right? But also just contrasted with like, in the original six page strip, there's this recurring thing, or I guess it happens in the

book of just like, it feels like the more I clean, the messier things get. And you're seeing the same woman repeating that over and over to herself across decades as she just cleans up different areas of the house. Zemeckis and Eric Roth make the choice to basically be like, there are like six main narrative threads. Maybe less, four or five? There's really just one though. Like there is a main narrative in this film, which is the Tom Hanks Robin Wright storyline.

Right. That isn't really present for the first little chunk, and then it's present for the first little chunk and then it's present for the rest. And then there's a few other sort of D plots that are really just one thing. You know what I mean? They feel like side gags. That's what I'm saying.

It's like the pilot guy, the lazy boy guy, the black family, the indigenous people, the couple sort of, right. And Benjamin and William Franklin. These are just things we check in with where it's like, there's really just sort of one thing going on here and there's not like a big sweeping thing. But they almost feel like the equivalent of like

rear window where there's like very vague characterization of what the other neighbors are doing that Jimmy Stewart's spying on, you know? Where you're like, oh, each person has like one thing. Right, they have a thing. This lady exercises a lot. And you're like, yeah, right, they're just sort of there. They're like kind of like window dressing, you know?

This movie is mostly zoomed in on this idea of basically a cursed house. What feels like psychologically the equivalent of like the Poltergeist house. I don't know about this. Well, it just feels like everyone- Lazy Boy Guy did great. Yes.

He had a hot wife. I guess it's basically- Invented a lazy boy and fucked her in it. And then he sold it and was rich. It seems to be his entire story. It's really just the Betany Hanks lineage. Well, no, the airplane guy definitely had a couple ironies thrown his way. Yeah, like here's a great example of how this movie is dramatized.

Right. I guess William Franklin kind of showed his ass on like, we're never going to liberate ourselves from the British. A guy walks into a house dressed like a cartoon drawing of an old timey pilot. Right. He's got like a scar. I have a goggle on. He's like, oh, my goggles and gloves came today. And the important thing about planes is you need to fuel them or whatever.

He looks like Snoopy fighting the red bear. He's fucking biggles, yeah. And he like walks into this one static frame and goes like, ah, thank God. I think you literally see his helmet arrive, don't you? You're seeing his goggles and gloves arrive, yes. His flight gear. And he's like, ah. Finally, my flight gear.

Shipped it in from Europe. I can put it on before I go fly my plane. These people are practically should be saying like, it's 1916 after all. It's almost that level. And then his wife Michelle Dockery is like, oh, you and your plane stuff? Are you talking about the plane stuff again? You know I hate that dreaded plane. And then their child daughter walks in and is like, hello, I'm your child daughter.

I would love to be in the plane. And the mom is like, I hate the idea of you being in the plane. Don't get in the plane. It's going to kill you. You'll die in the plane. Oh, no, only people who don't know how to fly planes die in planes. Then maybe that scene repeats three more times. Literally like over, I took her in the plane. I wish you wouldn't take her in the plane.

That plane's going to kill you. It keeps happening and you're like, is this going anywhere? And then at one point they just cut two. He's in a fucking casket. They're doing the funeral in their home and there are two guys standing in the back and they're like, surprise, it's an open casket. Why are you surprised? Well, usually when a plane crashes, the body's so mangled, you can't leave the casket open.

Oh, you didn't hear? He didn't die of a plane crash. Turns face to reveal they have old timey flu mask on. Now did yours screening have a foghorn at that moment? Brrr, brrr. Cause I felt like that was out of place. I'm not really exaggerating how blunt the dialogue is. It's truly that.

And I guess if you can lock in with that, maybe you can more be on this movie's level and I could not lock in with that. You and I love a lot of stuff that people think is like weird and stilted and overly stylized and like unrecognizable from human behavior. But I'm like, in this type of movie, where you're going to be jumping around so much, and the movie's trying to make something profound out of these little moments and these connections and these echoes, you know? It just like, it pushes me off so hard. There's also, it's like, anytime I felt like I was kind of engaging with this idea, as

you say, of the kind of the vanished promise of the post-war era, right? And like, you can own your home and it's like, yeah, they get to own this fucking home. We only see one bit of it, but it seems fine. But it's a home filled with faded dreams and hitting up against sort of not like a low ceiling, and depression and families divorcing and whatever, right? That's interesting. But then it would be like Tom Hanks is like smooth ass face

And I would be like fuck this or Paul Bettany being like gee Willikers What are you talking about like and I would just be taken all the way out of like beginning to engage with the emotions of the movie The book is so good at engaging with like silence and space and allowing you to draw connections. What books aren't yelling at you in Paul Bettany's voice? This movie is yelling. If this movie, I, not to reduce it to simple math, if this movie had 40% less dialogue, I probably would like it 60% more. You know, like if some of these scenes just played out in body language, I'm not saying I'd immediately love this movie, but there's something about it hitting you over the fucking head with everything

that I just like could not get past. And not to relate everything to Shyamalan, right? But I'm like, Shyamalan's weird, stilted, like bizarre, heightened tone, performance style, dialogue, all that stuff. I'm like, that works for me because Shyamalan is trying to make an uneasy world. He is. And also he's making a propulsive films is another thing he's got going for

him is he makes thrillers. They're like plotty movies that need to like truck along and characters say stuff bluntly. But the movies are also about how everyone's insane, versus this movie being like, you know, just the quiet moments of everyday life of simple Americans. And instead it's like, dad, I made one mistake. I got my girlfriend pregnant on this couch. The one- How could you do that?

You didn't take her upstairs? Why'd you fuck her on the couch? Because if I took her upstairs, it would be out of frame. Dad, you know where the- The ultimate horror of it, right, of Robin Wright being like, can we please sell this house? And everyone just being like, not able to say like, but then the camera won't see us if we moved over there.

Robin Wright basically starts yelling, I don't wanna be in this movie. Like not Robin Wright the performer, the character is like, doesn't this feel like this setup isn't working out for us? And you started joking at certain points about things that were going to have to, the movie would have to bend over backwards to justify why they were happening in the corner of the living room where the couch is. And then most times we started to make a joke, the movie would then do that exact

thing. Where you were like, I made a joke, the movie would then do that exact thing. Where you were like- Multiple times. I made a joke about home birth, and then her water breaks in the living room, and I was like, oh my God, are they not gonna get her the fucking hospital? Of course not. Why not just do it right there?

Of course she's gonna give birth on the couch. Oh, well let's get married. I know a great place for us to get married. The front of our living room. Of course the funeral happens on the couch. Of course it's a weird family tradition that they don't have dinner in our living room. Of course the funeral happens on the couch. Of course it's a weird family tradition that they don't have dinner in the dining room. Thanksgiving happens in the living room.

You know our crazy family tradition of eating sort of in the living room. What the fuck? The book has the confidence to be like, there's power in the things you aren't seeing, that you're filling in the gaps, the spaces between these moments you're seeing. And in fact, we're not showing you the biggest moments, right?

And the movie is like, well, obviously what you want to see are all the biggest moments and you want characters to explain why the moments are all happening in this one corner. Here. Ben, did you like here? Um, not really. Didn't care for it. And I want to add that my perspective.

Was looking kind of at a window, kind of like. Well, I realized. Yeah, I realized the whole time I was only looking like out of the corner of my eye, which really, you know, affected my viewing of the movie. What was your perspective? No, I grew up in an old house that's been in my family for a really long time.

So I feel like bringing that, I would be so, it should be able to get you. It should be, I should be so on board for it, but I just found myself spacing out thinking about my own, just like, like family narrative with the house that I grew up in. Yeah. I was, and I was just thinking about like groceries I had to buy shit like that. What about this? We shall also mention, we saw it at Alamo

Yeah, they had to open the doors to let Maria forgot to drop the check. They forgot to drop the check We had to be funny if our waiter was just asleep on the floor That's why he didn't forget we had to track down a manager and they were like you guys were in the theater They're like, what do you order like a lot of stuff? We were like it truly wanted that let's be we saw here and they're like I have no record of a movie called here ever being shown at the fucking out what like they're like here Who was on first? Like it just it felt like we were not supposed to be seeing what about

interesting release strategy Zemeckis is like franchises, everyone loves them. So November we'll release here, living room cut. And then in like February, you can see the kitchen. January, you know, May will go upstairs. Oh, January of the rooms. Yes, same movie, different perspective every time. Here, Colin, the next level. Yes, yes, yes.

You're just hearing the movie take place downstairs Because apparently nothing has ever happened in any other room in this when Paul Bettany is laid up on the couch as an older, you know when he's near death We should mention he has a drinking problem. What are you see fine to me? Oh, the movie would have mentioned that Might have had a hearing thing going on. I'm not sure. No, once again. Like, where it's like,

oh yeah, my dad's staying with me on the couch. I'm like, your wife left you. Yeah. Your kid's in college. This is a two-floor house. There's not a spare bedroom for this motherfucker. Sure, sure. But also that's-

He's got to sleep on the fucking couch. As I said, that is one of the things, the only things from the main plot of this movie that is one-to-one in the book, but in the book that is just a fragment of a life where you don't ask other questions. I'm gonna ban you from the book. Versus if we spent an hour with these characters up until this point,

you're like, well, I'm into the logic loops of this. Is there, I mean, maybe people like this movie. Some people like this movie, so I guess there is a good version of this movie, and it's the one they saw. But is there this argument of like, okay, I mean, maybe people like this movie. Some people like this movie. So I guess there is a good version of this movie and it's the one they saw. But is there this argument of like, okay, Eminem, the rapper, right, in his early career? And this is true of like comedians and this is true of music.

I think of rap musicians and comedians, especially with this, right? When they emerge and they're telling a story about themselves and the community they're in, right? And like how hard their life is, maybe your comedians are like, yeah. And then like you start to get famous and rich and then you kind of live in a fancy place or whatever.

And then comedians come out and they're like still trying to do material or M&Ms. Like, here's my 14th record about like my perspective on the world. And you're kind of like, I think you don't have that interesting a perspective on the world anymore, buddy. Is that Zemeckis now? Like is Zemeckis like, I think you don't have that interesting a perspective on the world anymore, buddy.

Is that Zemeckis now? Like, is Zemeckis like, I need to tell another story about like post-war America and it's just kind of like, Bobby, you kind of have done that. Let's zoom out to general Bobby talk. People like Forrest Gump or whatever the fuck. Like I don't love that movie, but like, you know, you did that. Do you have more on this now, now that you're this many years removed from even having any idea of what a real person's life is like?

Because this is like a fake idea of a real person's tough life. Like a middle-class life that they muddle through and they don't make the right choices and blah, blah, blah. Like, he wants to be an artist, he turns out to be an insurance salesman and, you know. He makes the choice to prioritize what he thinks he needs to do to support his family and lives with the resentment of it.

And everyone gets stopped. A quiet resentment. Yes, and there's this feeling of, this thing that I do think is poignant in idea, and is once again Zemeckis and Roth's creation entirely, right, a thematic thing they're creating just for this film. And it's not to syndicate a series of thoughts that fantasy has undoubtedly shared on his own podcast at this point.

But like his take is this movie is about the sort of like death of a middle class across the last, you know, 70 years of America, and how like, you know, structurally, we have put up roadblocks against the original belief that every generation wants their children to have a better life than they had, and basically it started becoming a destructive pattern of like people trapping the future generations in a worse version of what they had to live through.

And this- But their kid figures it out. Totally. And the movie's trying to do this thing of like, you know, life keeps getting in the way. Sure. If we don't have the money to fix the roof, you know? Because now this new complication has happened. Dad fell down or she got into law school. Isn't that great?

But we're going to have to pinch pennies or whatever it is. This feeling of like their lives. I think that, by the way, the first 10 minutes of Up dramatizes perfectly. Move along, move along, no, no. It's another movie I don't like. I don't like it either. Keep going, keep going.

That is the thing the movie does well, and does in 10 minutes, that this movie is trying to do the whole time of like this life of postponed dreams. Right? I guess so. I bothers me enough to you and I agree on up. Sure.

Fine. But I for whatever reason couldn't sleep and rewatch that sequence recently. And it was just like, this is a marvel of construction. Whatever. We're not talking about up. We're not. But I'm like, this is just this very protracted. You're watching an hour devoted to. We'll not talking about up. We're not. But I'm like, this is just this very protracted, you're watching an hour devoted to,

we'll get to that eventually. At some day I'll pick up painting again. We'll go on a trip. We'll fix the house. We'll move out. We'll go somewhere else. And it's a little moving that, to me, and it should have been more moving in a way, but like, he's like, yeah, you know, it didn't fucking work out, right?

And, but we tried to be good parents and right. And I provided and like, you know, we did our best sort of, and it's like, there is, there is a win to that. There were a couple of scenes towards the end that started to get to me where I was like, I'm starting to feel a pulse. There's the Robin Ray birthday scene where she's trying to just give a nice sort of like, I'm starting to feel a pulse. There's the Robin Wright birthday scene where she's trying to just give a nice sort of like

birthday toast and she just surprises herself getting more emotional than she thought she would about what her life has turned out to be. It's sort of the scene in Boyhood when Patricia Arquette suddenly sort of melts down out of nowhere and it's powerful in Boyhood. Robin Wright, a favorite of mine, that is one, and it's powerful in point of view. Robin Wright, a favorite of mine,

that's maybe the first scene in the movie where I felt like the movie slowed down enough to have a character speak in emotional terms rather than describing their situation, right? And gave her the room to like play that. And then there is, I felt some emotionality, some genuine emotionality in the sort of like, Hank's recognizing, I fucked this up. I need

to let her go, right? Their marriage sort of like slowly drifts apart and it never becomes clear if they're fully divorced, but they're sort of separated or whatever it is, you know, but they both kind of like come to a piece of like, this didn't work out for us without us hating each other, demonizing each other. But all of this is also cut with 30 minutes devoted to scenes that end with Robin Wright or start with Robin Wright going, the weirdest thing just happened. I forgot something. Isn't that strange? I remember that I forgot anyway moving on.

And the foghorn comes back. Yeah. And you're like, when is she gonna get dementia? I'm not looking forward to this. I guess the movie moves fast in a way, like you're saying, in that it can't sit in any scene like that too long, I guess. Right. So you're not subjected to that.

But the early signs of dementia seem to be spread out over the course of a decade before suddenly the movie is just like... She remembers nothing. She doesn't remember much about her life anymore, which is sad. And she remembers the one thing, and it's a little bit moving, and I was slightly touched by it. I cannot tell you. I feel the same way? Yes.

Even though I sort of was like, oh, that's why that was there. But I do think there's like, weirdly, the theme of what Bobby Z is trying to make this movie about feels like the opposite of what you were saying of, I don't know how to relate to ordinary people. Like he is invested

in this idea of this being a movie about ordinary people who often are kind of ignored, right? Like people who are just kind of slowly scraping by and existing. There is a very like base level sort of ground simple humanity to this movie that on paper should work. And what I feel like Zemeckis keeps butting up against is this like guy who was an incredible communicator for a while. I've been listening to a lot of like the podcast he's done in the last couple of weeks to promote this film. He did a WTF episode that was fascinating in how unrevealing it was.

He did an episode of Happy Side Confused with Josh Horowitz that was more interesting, I would say, got more out of him by only trying to engage him on the work rather than Merrin trying to engage with him as a person. Right, Merrin's like, hey, what's your deal, man? And Zemeckis is like, I sit here. But on WTF, Zemeckis said a thing about how, like,

I view myself as someone who makes, I think he said commercial entertainment, But on WTF Zemeckis said a thing about how like, I view myself as someone who makes, I think he said commercial entertainment or mainstream entertainment, right? That's true. And Maren was like, when you were in film school though, like you didn't have a phase where you like wanted to make Godard films and he was like,

no, this was always the kind of movie I liked and what I wanted to make. It is what made him, I think so skillful for so long, similar to Spielberg, where it's like the love he has for the best examples of this is so genuine and it feels like he is making them to the top of his intelligence. And for a stretch there, he just had the math figured out on how to communicate complicated things to wide audiences in a way that felt universal. He could communicate them visually, narratively, dramatically, what have you, right?

But all these things we've talked about of like, Back to the Future is an insane pitch for a movie. There's a reason every studio turned it down. I don't want to make your family comedy about a guy trying to not fuck his mom, right? Everyone said that, and he was proven right that he knew the exact right way to pitch that movie to make it work. Roger Rabbit shouldn't work.

You read about what the original book was, the changes he made, the technology that no one thought would be possible, you're totally, it's just like he fucking nailed it. Cast Away is a movie that feels experimental when you step back from it and go like, in 2000 to make a movie with the biggest star that is like an hour and a half of him

just being silent and sad and lonely and not really talking is insane, you know? And he just knew the right amount to do. Forrest Gump, of course, is this like kind of key film that it feels like now the latter half of his career is him trying to replicate more than any of his earlier films. Where it's like he took this weird complicated text and found a way to synthesize it into something

that was very palatable and very broad. And in a way that makes some people revolted. What is this like saccharine stupid nonsense? And other people just like this thing fucking hits. And it feels like he's gotten back to a state of really wanting to do Forrest Gump again. I know how to just streamline this thing and hit the emotional beats hard and give it the moments of triumph in the swelling score but just came out of... I don't know. It's like there's music playing.

It's like there's music... There is music playing. Apparently the Robin Hood score has been playing on my computer for lord knows how long. Like on Spotify. The Mark Streitandfeld Ridley Scott Robin Hood score. Oh, that one. Yeah, I think my guess is that Spotify has been running for hours playing random music and that's what it settled on. Anyway.

How can you be sure you're making the right decision when choosing a university? The smart approach is to look at the facts, Anyway. to prepare you for a meaningful career and long-term success. Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. It feels like he is so frozen into his instincts from like the mid 90s of what you need to do to make something work for an audience. And I think audiences have evolved a tremendous amount. I think like people do not need to see what used to be parodied as the conventional Hollywood version of a story, right? I think we talk a lot on the show about like, when we get

frustrated of popular entertainment feeling like it's not doing the bare minimum work to hit the emotional beats or like craft a compelling like narrative arc because it feels like movies are so into trying to be a step ahead of the audience and subvert expectations and not go into cliche because people are too savvy like people know too much people are exposed to a wider amount You know, it's part of things not like us not living in an Omniculture anymore in terms of like media where it's like everyone just finds their own shit

Like all these things that used to be niche or mainstream and people can ride with shit It doesn't mean everyone's gonna like everything and everything's gonna be a hit but I think a lot of the feeling of like, you gotta sand this down and make it the most easily digestible version of the thing is a thing that like Zemeckis is still holding on to that is basically gone. And it feels like he's made a couple of these movies now. Like I put walk Marwin in this, particularly in this category, where it's like he's starting out with a really interesting work, right? A documentary, a real life story, a book, you know? And then he's like, well, obviously,

you gotta do the Hollywood version of it. And it feels like the changes he's making are not like dumb studio notes. It feels like it's he's himself doing the kind of notes a studio would give in the 90s in the name of, well, I'm trying to make the broadest version of this. And then all three of them come out

and people are like, who gives a shit? Fuck you, this movie's for no one. Yeah, I think, and I think the audience for this- Obviously there are people who like all three of those films, but all three colossal bombs. Big bombs. I think the audience for a movie like here is also gone. I agree.

Like, ish, right? Like that kind of older audience of the 90s is gone. Then why are you trying to make the version of here is also gone. Like, ish, right? Like that kind of older audience of the 90s is gone. Then why are you trying to make the version of here that has to function like a blockbuster in order to work? Because he's eminent making the 16th, that is what I'm saying, where he's like, well, I'm just gonna do what I do. Okay, so here's-

He's not really gonna evolve. How old is Robert Zemeckis? How old do you think he is? I think he's 72. You are right. That is exactly his age. Crazy. I knew he was just a You are right. That is exactly his age. Crazy. I knew he was just a little bit younger than Spielberg.

And Spielberg is someone who, I think, consciously tries to evolve and do new things and still is Steven Spielberg and he's always gonna be Steven Spielberg. So you think the M&M, the stand-up comic thing, like what does he have to say as he's so out of touch with reality, right? I think what's interesting to me is

we lived through the moment that was exciting of like, oh shit, Robert Zemeckis is making flight. Like there was the feeling, it was like an earthquake of like, he's dropping the mocap shit. For a while, it felt like he might be doing this for the rest of time. As like public interest just crashes on each successive movie, he seems pot committed to this thing. Then like Disney pulls out the like rug underneath him and is like, get the fuck out of here. These are done.

And then it's suddenly like Robert Zemeckis has like attached himself to this blacklist script. He's going to make like a $30 million R-rated drama starring Denzel, who's like willing to wave his quote on this, because the material's so exciting to him. I like that movie less than a lot of people, but I'm like, certainly now, in retrospect, I want to give it almost another full star just for being like, I can't believe he made that at that moment. It is a hit. It gets Oscar nominations. It is well liked. I like Allied much more than most people. But to me, I'm like, that's him in the same vein of what I want him to be doing, which like those both feel like him making R rated

adult movies that's sort of in a way that's a little bit similar to Spielberg, right? These guys start out their career as like whiz kid geniuses making like popcorn entertainment for the masses. And then they get older and they start to be rueful of the adult genres that they maybe helped push to the side. And Spielberg has moved to this vein of like making a lot of the movies that people don't make anymore. Versus trying to all the time make classic Spielberg blockbusters. And I was encouraged by Flight and Allied being like him trying to make something that's sort of like a new Hollywood character piece, you know? Or like a classic golden age war drama, you know? I know the walk happens in between Flight and Allied, is that correct? And then the run of the other ones we've said, right?

Mm-hmm. Allied and Flight feel like the two scripts to me that have the least to do with Robert Zemeckis as a person. As much as we have talked about him being a little inscrutable of like, what's going on in this guy's head? And you see peaks of his worldview in a way that I think are unintentional in some of his material I'll let in flight feel very far off from everything

We know about this guy and it just feels like him reading a script and being like this is a ripping yarn I'm gonna make this a higher movie start right versus like the walk Pinocchio Marwin Here and I forgetting one other no, I think that's it the witches Here and I forgetting one other no, I think that's it The witches Jesus forget that one. Don't worry about it. Don't talk about it And in fact doesn't really fit into what I'm saying here Those four feel like movies that are weirdly revealing and personal for him There's so much about like guys trying to control their you. Yeah, I think that's why more one is good

Walk is not very good because it's stupid Their stories we tell ourselves they're entertainers Morwen is good. Walk is not very good because it's stupid. But some people like it. They're stories we tell ourselves. They're entertainers. They're all the sort of like puppet masters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This feels like a movie that's about like him now being like in his 70s and looking at how America's changed over time, right? As a guy who came from like a truly like lower class midwestern upbringing or no

he was a Chicago yeah yeah I gotta be honest with you I just don't want to fucking analyze Roberts and Mechis' brain that bad anymore it's sort of bringing me back to that hateful miniseries that was largely good but just in 2020. It ends with a lot of us being like, okay, all right. Yeah. Because I'm basically like, I think the four films of his I like the least are the last four films he made.

Yeah. Let me look at my Zemeckis list. You're probably right. Like I think my least favorite films of his, you like Marwen a lot more than me. I think my least four favorite films of his are, here, not in order, here, Pinocchio and marwin yeah, and I have I'd put in there is Christmas Carol I have is probably my dead bottom. Yeah, I have Christmas Carol

Near the bottom Pinocchio is bottom that just like doesn't exist I mean which is also which is doesn't exist Christmas Carol. Christmas Carol is bad, Here is bad, Polar Express is bad, Walk is bad. That's kind of, that's my bottom, right? These are movies that make me just feel numb. The next tier up for me are movies of his that I like, which are like Flight, Allied, What Lies Beneath, Bay Wolf, Marwen, you know. Movies that are not wholly successful,

but have enough going on. Uh... Polar Express, I think, drives both of us crazy, but at least as an interesting object, which is more than you can say for like Pinocchio or witches. Like, this is unpleasant and boring. I, my problem with Flight and Allied, both movies that are much more successful, like you say, is that they're both too long. They both feel indulgent at times. Like, you know

what I mean? Like, you wish he was making 100 minute, like actual old school Hollywood movies. And it's sort of like- But also, at this point, we didn't know how fucking good we had it. No, that's the thing. And you wish he had stayed in that vein. That's the thing.

Where like, you know, these stories of like, oh, Warner Brothers wanted him to do the Flash so badly. And he was like, I hate superhero movies. I hate these tent poles. That's not what I wanna do. You see the films he's so badly. And he was like, I hate superhero movies. I hate these tent poles. That's not what I want to do. You see the films he's made instead, and you're like, he should have just done The Flash. Who gives a shit?

You know, it's not like we're missing out on more interesting work from him not trying to get stuck in like franchise silo bullshit. I would be more, I would be interested to see his The Flash, but not because I think that would be a great movie. Just because it's kind of like, yeah, what would a guy like him do with a junkie cinematic universe movie? Because I liked what Raimi did with Doctor Strange.

It's like, would I rather he do something else? Three sequences in The Flash that had Zeme it's a mechis verve in them in a way that like multiversive madness has would i be like maybe this is like the best version of what we can do with grandpa before we put him out to pasture before we put him on the fold-out couch in the living room he on wtf okay go ahead marin was like so i know you love all the tech and the da jing and the mocap and everything. You read this book, you must go, oh wow, this is great, I can do it with all the technology. The way we all pathologize them.

And he's like, huh, no. Correct. Yeah, okay. And he said it in a way where earnestly, it genuinely felt not that he's lying to us, but that he's lying to himself. Where he just said very directly, I actually don't think that way. I just like look for material I respond to, and it's all about story for me.

And then I get into problem solving of how technology is gonna help do it. But we talk about it and it's become the narrative on him that it feels like he looks for projects that feel like they could be a tech demo so often as a problem. And he was just like, no, I don't really do that. Where I'm like, I think a lot of the pipeline problem

with Zemeckis might just be his lack of honesty with himself at this point. Yeah, which is fine. Or lack of honesty with people on podcasts that he appears on at least. Right. And you know, he's got this thing that is great, that we all love, that he negotiated his contracts for Back to the Future with Bob Gale and Steven Spielberg,

where they have kill rights on anything and everything. And every time there's something of like, when are they gonna fucking remake Back to the Future? It's like, no, they're not going to, because it's ironclad, unbreakable contracts that they can't do it until all three of them die, like 10 years after. The kind of contract they don't do anymore. Ghostbusters had a similar contract, and then when Harold Ramis died, they just backed up Brink's trucks, and they went like,

hey, Bill Murray, you want to own a golf course, sign away your rights, right? The Back to the Future one, the three of them have just held onto it, and it's like a good thing. And... It is a good thing. Right, and Josh Horowitz asked him onto it. And it's like a good thing. And... It is a good thing.

Right. And Josh Horowitz asked him about this. And he's like, it'll never happen over my dead body. I'll make sure of it. It's sacred. We protect it. There's no need to extend the legacy, this and that. And then in the same interview, Horowitz asked him,

is there any genre you haven't done that you'd like to do? And he's like, yeah, I'd love to do a musical. And Horowitz is like, you should do a musical. And he's like, yeah, I'd love to do a musical. And Horowitz is like, you should do a musical. And he's like, well, I pitched Universal the other day. I wanna make a movie of the Back to the Future stage show. God. And I'm like, here's, there it is. There's the whole disconnect.

This guy knows that for everyone's sake, it's better that we never touch Back to the Future again. And yet he's within the same hour saying, yeah, do the thing the producers did. I'm like oh that notorious boondoggle where the producers is a great movie and then the play is a fucking smash success and then the movie is an inexplicable disaster and he wants to do that and I'm like you know what I would rather someone else make some shitty Back to the Future remake than watch you try to direct a adaptation of the stage musical.

Robert Zemeckis is now the guy I trust least to make any Back to the Future thing. In the same way that now he's saying like, well, Roger Rabbit 2 will never happen because Disney's scared of Jessica's boobs. And I'm like, here's my guess. I'm guessing Roger Rabbit 2 will never happen because every time you've gone in and pitched something to them, your pitch is insane.

And maybe you talk about boobs too much. I'm sure he talks about boobs too much. I'm sure that's one of the sticking points. But Horowitz in the same interview was like, I know you had a script. And he was like, we had a script. It was great. Everyone loved it.

And I'm like, you know, your judgment on scripts, we'll take it with a grain of salt, right? And he's like, yeah, well, you know, your judgment on scripts, take it with a grain of salt, right? And he's like, yeah, but Disney doesn't want to move because they're scared of Jessica and they put a trench coat on her, whatever the fuck he said, right? And Horowitz was like, well, now, of course, Bob Hoskins has died. And he said, well, but you know, that actually wouldn't have been a problem because the way we had the script, it was set many years later, and Eddie was in it as a ghost. So we were going to have Bob play the ghost. So I guess we could just write him out, or maybe we could just CGI.

And I'm like, shut up! Stop all of this! Shut up! Stop all of this! Where I'm like, this guy has made several of the few movies I think are truly perfect in the annals of Hollywood history. And yet I now feel like he is a child holding lit firecrackers. And I'm like, we have to take them away from him. Can I ask how did he do as far as tech demo?

On this, I think it looks bad. Yeah, I don't think it looks very good. The de-aging didn't look much better to me than other sort of more brief de-aging I've seen in like Marvel movies and shit where you're already kind of, or the Indiana Jones movie. No, I mean, it goes like- Where you're like, I can tell this is fake.

Totally. And so it takes me out of it, sorry. And it's a thing Chris Macquarie said when they did tests on de-aging Tom Cruise for Mission Impossible, and he's like, the best test I saw, you're still thinking the whole time, wow, that's pretty good. And I'm like, that's the whole digital de-aging thing in a nutshell for me.

Even the times I've seen it done the best, I'm thinking the whole time, wow, that looks pretty good. Which is immediately distancing you from the story. And Amy Nicholson makes her whole take of like, this movie works better if you think of it as like, like an experimental theater piece, right? Which is how I want to engage with this. And I had the thought not to try to solve this movie, but as I'm watching it, I'm sort of like, man, there may be a thousand different versions of this movie that would work for me. And even a thousand different versions of the core elements on this specific version.

And I'm like, if this movie is Tom Hanks, Kelly Riley, Paul Bettany, and Robin Wright play almost everyone, I think I like it more. You know? I don't know. Can I make this case? I don't like that. I don't think you should make this case. I'm going to... No, no, go ahead. I don't know. Can I make this case? I don't like that. I don't think you should make this case. No, no, go ahead.

I don't care. I almost think the weird, stagey, like, over-dramatized nature of it is more palatable if you're like, it's Tom Hanks with a cane being like, I'm an old man! And you're repeating the same actors playing very broad versions of people in a, like, Cloud Atlas event. I don't think that movie, I'm not saying, I've solved it, it's a masterpiece now, but I'm like, that better sells the like, well, this thing is not meant to be taken literally.

Or if the set is like more fucking dogvilly or like anything, you know, where I'm like, this movie is like trying to be grounded reality and also recognizes no reality I've ever seen in my life. But if it's that, then it's a movie about the Tom Hankses who've lived throughout society. And it's like, no, this movie's trying to be about, in one place, there have been all kinds of people. Now, the movie wanted to put Tom Hanks in blackface and Native American face and dinosaur face.

It's why I said almost all characters. But then it's like, you're busting your conceit. So I had kind of an idea. As much as it'd be funny if John Hanks had a big mustache and was like, I love airplanes. I won't die in one. Anyway. What? Uh, I had an idea that I wanted to pitch because I felt like the dinosaur stuff for me.

It was interesting. Yeah. He also breezes past it. I mean, like when I hear from Esther, like this movie starts with the dinosaurs, I'm like, holy shit, is he going to pull some castaway shit where there's like 20 minutes before a human talks in this film? Sure. You know?

And the movie does not really go chronologically. It sort of roughly does in the Hanks timeline, but it's otherwise jumping all around. But it does basically start with what feels like a short movie you watch in a room at a museum before you enter the real exhibit that is like sped up of just a bunch of shit happening. There's totally a version of that, right? Of like really trying to show this era, right? Within this like closed little box. But I think the other successful part of this

is just family as a theme, right? So for me, I'm watching the dinosaur report and I'm like, what if it was like a family? Would there be a baby? Maybe there'd be a baby. How does he feel about his father relative to his mother? I was just saying. I'm curious. Father and I relative to his mother Curious

He might say something like not the mama right Is that really the number one thing that show had to throw down the fucking plate was like, and the baby says, not the mama. And everyone's like, we're going to remember that. And they're like, we have some other stuff too. And everyone's like, no, we're sticking with just remembering that. Honestly, not the mama. That's our one takeaway. I had an argument. I don't want to call it an argument, but a disagreement with our friend John Hodgman the other day, where he was like, oh, yeah, that weird failed one-season show.

And I'm like, my man, that show ran for five years. And he's like... I believe four, but yeah. I think it was like... It got spread out over. It's four seasons, maybe over five years. Yes. And he was like, that is impossible. And I'm like, that show was seen as a failure

because it was so expensive and it didn't run as long as The Simpsons. But that thing did, like, they produced many, many, many episodes of it. I went- And they had built all this stuff, you know, they had to get some, you know, fucking use out of it.

Yeah. That show was deeply bizarre. I went down a rabbit hole when we were doing Twin Peaks Season One where I was going back and forth between- Jesus. Twin Peaks and dinosaurs for whatever reason. All we fucking remember is not the mama.

Yeah. We don't really remember anything else. Yeah, but you know why? Because every other thing on that show, there's, okay, so there's like 20% of that show that is like insane proprietary dinosaur culture mythology, where you're like, what is this? There's a holiday where you throw your mother-in-law into a cliff. And that stuff is fascinating. And then the other 80% of it feels like a parody of a parody of a 50s sitcom, where you're like Earl Sinclair comes home, drops off his

lunchbox and goes like, honey, I'm home. I mean, that was the joke. And you're like, is that that they were too lazy and they settled on the first draft or are they mocking the tropes in a way that kind of feels like what here is getting out of like maybe culturally things repeat themselves even the dinosaurs would complain about their wife's haranguing them with the the rolling pin in the kitchen. Oh he said I'm the baby gotta love me he also would say that. Well that was his song, that was his hit single. Right, right. You talk about his music.

Not the mama. And much like Eminem he hasn't really put out relevant work in a while. I feel like he's sort of lost touch with his roots. When he was a baby, things felt very raw to him. He had a lot of things to write songs about. And now he's just rapping about his man-channeling shit. The faster money and data move, the further your business can go to a seamless digital future for Canadians.

Let's go faster forward together. In Life, Interact. I just, I felt, and I know some people love this movie. And I wish I was with them. I wish I was with them. I did have the thought watching this to quote our finest film critic Ben Hosley.

I think the guy needs to get spaced. Like I think we need to space his ass. And here's another, here's an incredibly mean thought I'm going to share. I thought there might be no filmmaker we have covered on the show that I feel more confident will never make a movie I like again. And that includes the filmmakers we have covered who are dead.

I could sooner see myself being excited about a new Nora Ephron film than a new Zemeckis. I would love to be proven wrong. I'd love to see him swerve back, but I just don't feel good about any of it. And I'm just like, I don't even really, I find it hard to see the glimmers of the way, like I'm never gonna fucking quit Tim Burton. And even in his most dire movies,

as our listeners have heard way too much, I'll be like, but that 10% in a corner of an idea but also Tim Burton makes entertainment and I do feel like Zemeckis is forgetting a little bit how to make entertainment this is my thing though it's like he's stuck in this weird space where I'm like all my problems with here come from him trying to make it too entertaining I don't think that's it it It's not entertaining. It's him making the version of the movie that is like...

But you're talking about like an abstract movie, but I'm saying like, he just can't write people or he and Eric Roth, like, you know, it's like... We sit there with Marie. They're just such paint by number creatures, all these people, like... Four minutes in, she turns to us and says, Eric Roth wrote this? Well, actually she said David Kep wrote this and we were like and says, Eric Roth wrote this?

Well, actually, she said David Kep wrote this. I was trying to be kind to her. Yeah. But, you know, a well-known screenwriter wrote this. Right, and the people are talking like this, and then the end credits, it says screenplay by... Eric Roth and Robertson. And all three of us went, oh, well, that's okay.

Well, wow, it's a little different. And look, I refuse to believe that the film we're seeing on screen is not the aftermath of a heavy Bob Pass. I think so because Eric Roth is... It's not like Eric Roth only writes smash hits, but he's a pretty reliable screenplay credit. This is honestly, yeah, kind of his first cruddy screenplay credit, since it sort of depends where you fall in extremely loud and incredibly close.

I mean, which he wrote once again, like I would be thrilled to see Zemeckis deliver an extremely loud and incredibly close at this point. I guess Mank, you can kind of, you know, he didn't really write that, but he sort of, but like Mank is way more successful, obviously, than anything we're talking about right now. There's no thing he's ever had a credit on where people talk like this. Is that fair to say as a huge sweeping statement?

Yes. And beyond that, it's just like, I like, again, this idea, but the emotion, the interiority of like the guy paints, how do we tell he's a painter? Well, he paints in the living room. He's always trying to capture the- Honey, I'm staying up late. I'm trying to get what the moon looks like.

And like the scene where he shows his baby, the moon, actually a sweet, Hank can really make that work, you know? Like, but, you know, your sense of the guy as an artist or his artistic feeling is just that he had some painting that he did in the room, and then there's a scene where he, like, takes the painting and puts it in a box, and he's like, I'm going to be the salesman now. Like, it's just the fucking, you know...

Right, I mean, your text, I just have it here, was, the deal with me is my dad is Ben Franklin, and then you wrote what all the dialogue in that movie sounded like. And I'm like, yeah. And then there's like, right, 14 scenes of people being like, you know, dad, you used to be a painter. Yeah. Remember, you wanted to go to art school and he's like, yeah, well, I'm not doing that. I look like big right now, by the way. Anyway, I'll see you later.

Which, by the way, the Franklin stuff is basically one to one in the book, except they maybe never say Ben Franklin. And you're like, that's so much better when you're reading it and you're like, oh, that's Ben Franklin's son. That's supposed to be, it's like the thing I say all the time. It's the old fucking axiom of like, give the audience one and one and let them put it together and they'll love you forever, right? Isn't that Billy Wilder line, I think?

But this like belief of like, audiences like it if you make them do a little work. You get to feel smart, that you're like putting the pieces together and more than anything it makes you engage in a film. And when movies are like yelling shit at you, you know, like I feel like the substance of film we... Have you seen it? Haven't seen it. Still haven't seen it. A film that I think people were arguing about, like, it's so broad, it's so, like, it hits this point over the head until it's dull, you know?

And I think a lot of people who dislike that movie are just like, no one talks like this, the emotions are so extreme, it's so out of whack. Have you seen it, Ben? The difference for me is, A, that movie goes in plot directions you could not expect, right? Which keeps you locked in, even if it keeps doing so in a very broad, unnuanced way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the second thing is, it is largely a visceral experience. Right, and I saw her first movie and that's a very heightened genre thing and it's much more forgivable.

There are many films that I like that people don't like where my argument is like, I don't care about subtleties. Subtleties overrated, right? And I don't want to sound like I'm just being persnickety about here because it's broad. But I think the way in which it is broad is actually anathema to what it is trying to do. For me, it was- If there was this rock, you know, and people would go near the rock, the Native Americans. At one point, I described it to someone

as having the depth of a postcard. That's fucking right. Cause I called it a boomer diorama on letterbox and it's the same kind of thing where it's like. I said horrendous. Yeah. It was pretty good. I was into that.

But yeah, it's like, it's just like, yeah, thinking of you, the trip's been great anyway, bye. Right, it's like, it's just like, yeah, thinking of you, the trip's been great, anyway, bye. Right, it's like empty platitudes. I, right, right. It has the emotionality of a Hallmark card. The whole movie, that is a great way to put it, is like, it's like my condolences for your loss. And you're like, well, it doesn't really mean anything

if it's on a piece of paper that you bought at a Rite Aid 10 minutes ago that has a crying cartoon cat next to it. The glue is still wet when I opened the envelope. I'm like, look, I appreciate the gesture. This of course resembles the idea of an emotion. I understand the intent of what was trying to be communicated here. This does not make me feel anything.

The lazy boy guys, we got to talk around. They're so horny. Yeah. This is probably the thread of the movie I like the most because it was the least important, if that makes sense. There's something nice about it being just free of serious incident or drama. Right. Because it's not like this movie is about everyone who ever lived in this location. Because it's basically like once there were dinosaurs, all right, moving on.

It does not go beyond its range. Right, then let's zip hundreds of millions of years and it's like, okay, Native American, this was sort of an important Lenape burial site. Okay, moving on. Also, Ben Franklin's Cux on. All right, moving on. And then, because that's like the 1760s or whatever. And then we basically jump ahead to the early 20th century with flying got. So like we're not seeing like

whatever colonial family lived there or whatever, even though everyone says like, oh it's a little colonial house. Can you get a glimpse of someone being like, I think I might build a house here. But like, it mostly sticks to, as we said, the like five or six threads that are all basically set up within the first 15 years of the movie. Apart from the couple things I just mentioned, they're all 20, 21st century.

There's not like a sense of discovery of like, I have no idea where this is gonna go next. You're like, we're gonna keep returning to the things we've established, you know? And like the Lenape characters, you're not really seeing anything of meaning with them. It's like you'll see Robin Wright and Tom Hanks hold hands, and then a little box will come up in frame and be like,

you know that other people used to hold hands too. Very close to the same spot, just in fact, one foot away. And you're like, okay. The only problem I had with the Lazy Boy, and maybe I shouldn't have this problem, is that it doesn't connect to anything and never really comes up. Like no one even, I was expecting like an annoying line

of like Tom Hanks to Robin Wright being like, you know, I found out like the inventor of the Lazy Boy lived in this house. Isn't that crazy? Well, also I think this movie has- I looked up by the way, the Lazy Boy was not invented by this guy, he was invented by some brothers in Michigan Oh weird. It wasn't I'm looking here Wikipedia. It wasn't invented in the one house

This movie trains your expectations in a way where I'm watching this lazy boy plotline which to be clear is just a Pinup model right? Page kind of lady right or but pre-warwar, but you know, that kind of thing. It's like a 30s version of According to Jim, where it's like, schlub with hot wife. Right, a fun husky guy. Who's like, look, I made the ultimate recliner chair, and then they're like, holy shit, this thing is magical.

And the plot just doesn't change. It's just they continue to be horny for each other. And everyone keeps going like, Betty is in fact a good. And he's like, Wazie Boy still works, by the way, goes down, it goes up. That is a good invention. And at one point you see a guy come in and he's like, I'm gonna sell a lot of these

and I think you're basically done. That's it. And then there's literally like a radio broadcast of like Pearl Harbor and you're like, oh, okay, so did he go to war? And they're like, yeah, we're not checking in with you again. That's what I'm saying. This really conditioned me to be like,

oh God, I'm gonna hate it when the Lazy Boy guy gets polio, you know, or like fucking scarlet fever. I'm like, what terrible fate is going to befall the lazy boy guy? And you're like, nothing movie could maybe use more of this of just like things that happen, people, the spread, the range of humanity, you know? Yes. Cause I guess the next, well, we don't know who's in between lazy boy and, uh, deaf Paul Bettany.

Adolf Hitler lived there for two years. When you're just trying out some ideas. I had the thought about European audiences trying to engage with this movie where like people live in like cities that go back like thousands of years. Right. Like, and, and it's like this movie, like it's dinosaur 1900s. It's like, it's like, don't forget Ben Franklin's Cuxhoun. But this is another thing that should make this movie interesting that you're Minasaur 1900s. By the way! It's like, it's like, it's... Don't forget Ben Franklin's Cuxon.

Oh, sorry. This is another thing that should make this movie interesting. That you're like, the microcosm of American history is so small that it basically could all be contained within a house by and large. You know? Like there's stuff there. There really is. That I want to engage with Ben Franklin's coxswain. I wanted to say it one more time

I saw some behind-the-scenes photos and I was genuinely surprised to see that they actually built this set Where I was watching it and the film has such an uncanny sheen to it that I was like, Jesus Christ The meccans couldn't even put up four walls I was so convinced even as like characters walk from one side of the room to the other, it felt very weightless. I agree with you. Did they build it like fully? Are there elements that are?

That's what I was starting to guess while watching it. Like, okay, I know this wasn't shot in the volume, but maybe they only had a couple pieces and then everything else. I guess it makes sense that you have to kind of build. I saw some pictures of Bobby sitting, looking over the script with Robin and Tom, sitting on the fucking mantel place.

Good for them. I'm like, the room looks fully constructed. Okay, but the card table that they brought out for Thanksgiving, that was CGI? This is my thing. I'm like, ah, you know, grandma's famous card table. Why is this falling apart visually? Why am I not believing characters taking steps on this floor? This is my thing. I'm like, you know, grandma's famous card table. Why is this falling apart visually?

Why am I not believing characters taking steps on this floor? Because they look too shiny. They do. They look too weird. But like the wall looks too shiny. And also there's two scenes that are bizarre in the same way because they involve one,

a baby and two Tony ways character. I think that's the actor's name, right? Falling down. Oh yes. And the fall is clearly CGI assisted rather than them doing a stunt. Obviously with the baby. It's supposed to be a vaguely funny,

vaguely alarming moment of a baby accidentally falling to the floor. And it feels, you're expecting the baby to bounce off the floor like they're in a bounce castle. It's very strange. And like moments like that again, completely take you out of the movie and it's like disastrous.

Yeah. There's the sort of like lingering moment. There's a scene in which an archaeologist, a historian comes into the house and sees Kelly Riley and is like, Hey, we're working on an archaeological project. We're historians. We think that this house might be like an important burial site. That seems kind of... who's that actor? I don't know. He looks very familiar. I know you're looking, I'm gonna try and see

if I can figure him out. This is also because of the way this film is shot, most characters are very far away from the camera. Yeah, and then sometimes they kind of walk close for a second. Like we were watching and being like, is that Noah Wiley? I also, yeah, I just think compositionally,

like this is a movie that should live or die on interesting blocking. And instead... It just kind of feels like paper dolls placed in the least interesting positions. But that moment, you're like, where is this going? And it doesn't really go anywhere, right? Because of the weird tone of performance in this movie,

and them wearing like fake mustaches and like 70s wigs or whatever they're wearing to show that they're like hippie historians. I was like the tone of this is so strange. Are they going to try to be like Manson family people who are pretending to be historians to like rob them and they're like two younger research assistants who have nervous energy and I'm like what's going on with them and then Kelly Riley and the main guy clear and they have this moment where the two young people are sitting on the couch and then goes like, Oh, you have

a fuzzy thing on your face. And she goes like, Oh, you found my imperfection and it cuts away. And you're like, what was that? And then you're like, Oh, that's like one moment of understated human behavior. In a movie that has not trained you to be able to receive that kind of thing, at least for me, like a scene that isn't someone explaining something, telegraphing it clearly, and that is like from the book verbatim. Oh, interesting. Right. Well, so that's why they got that interesting thing.

And like fuels at odds with what the movie is. That actor's name is Jonathan Aris. He's just in a zillion things, like so many things. It's too much to get into, but you've seen him in something. Rogue One, The Martian, All the Money in the World, a bunch of TV. I didn't like this and it bummed me out. Clearly.

I also didn't like it and would have rather seen a movie like Jordan number two or something, right? Like where I'm like, oh, I want to catch that. Your line was, I was more in the mood to watch a movie about cars that turn into dinosaurs. Yeah, that would also rock. Just like some nonsense instead of this kind of thudding. Well, David, I've got news for you.

What's up? Red One and theaters nationwide this weekend. If you want some dumb nonsense, my friend, here comes a hearty help. I'm kind of annoyed that the reaction to that movie now that it's come out is just people coming like, yeah, it's bad. What can I tell you? It's not like, oh, like a historic disaster. They're just like, yeah, shitty. The end.

I was ready for it to be the worst thing that happened in America this week. And unfortunately, I think the release of Red One's only going to be number two. There you go. We just play the box office game? I don't know, man. Yeah, I mean, I think we've done plenty on it. I don't really, like, we could maybe talk about the performances, but I don't really think it's worth it.

Look, we did a lot of Hank's talk upfront, right? And I like the swing of him wanting to do something like this because it does feel kind of experimental. And the movie tries to get a lot of mileage swing of him wanting to do something like this because it does feel kind of experimental and the movie tries to get a lot of mileage out of him just being a steady hand. Robin Wright was the one person I found kind of affecting. She cuts through, she's a great actor and the movie finally kind of gets at something

once in the last 20 or 30 minutes it starts to focus on her a little more. But just a little bit. But up until that point, she's basically just a nagging wife. Like she's not very well- Can we leave? No! Up until that point.

And then the movie starts to swing its perspective a little more to like, this woman had hopes and dreams. She wanted to balance books. Wasn't that her dream? No, that's Kelly Riley. Oh, right. She was like, I would have been a great bookkeeper. I don't know what Robin Wright wanted to do.

I honestly forgot if she had a dream. I think she had a thing. She went to Paris. Well, that's later. She says, I'm going to save up my pennies so that every year I can go to Paris again with my daughter, just girl time, but also visit a different country every year. Great. And their daughter, their ultimate masterpiece.

Yeah. You want to talk about Benny for a second? Maybe it's just an actor I really love, but I think he's laying it on a little thick in this one. Yeah, I almost wonder if he's got the right approach. Sure, just yelling to the back of the audience. I mean, I don't know, I didn't like his performance. I think this performance works, and it's out of sync with what everyone else is doing,

but also it does kind of feel like everyone is sort of like dog paddling, just trying to find a ledge in this movie. I think Hanks and Wright do their best. I don't know what an actor's supposed to do with this material, honestly. We should mention Leslie Zemeckis is in this, playing the woman who agrees

that Benjamin Franklin sucks in a bustier And then their daughter who we recently found out his name's Zaza Zemeckis Yes is Hanks his daughter in the film during the teen years, but Zaza Zemeckis a Walkman addict in the film. Yes Something that I just totally did not pick up on and that's probably because I deeply checked out from the film. Yeah, they're in the house. Right, okay. That's right.

No, the housekeeper. I just didn't even pick up on that. Wait, I'm sorry. Yeah, we do have to mention that I do think, right, the most embarrassing clunky things in the movie are in that storyline. The Black family who, I mean, I love the actress Nikki Amuka Bird, She's incredible. who's the mom, who's family who I mean, I, you know, I love the actress, Nikki, Amuka Bird, who's the mom who's a great British actress, but like recent

Shyamalan rep company player, knock at the cabin and all. Right. But they just have zilch to do. And that really feels like Zemeckis trying to just be like, and it's crazy how like, you know, Black Lives Matter and COVID like are things that happened later in history, recent history. And it just kind of gets like squished into that very brief plot line. Look, here's the whole experience we had

of watching the movie in a nutshell, okay? Cut to housekeeper. She's spraying a bottle at a flower, right? And then you see her like pause, and then she like... And I truly thought she was gonna huff it. She smells the bottle. That would have been interesting. And we're like, what's this moment?

And then we see that she's wearing a face mask, but it's hanging off of one ear, right? Like she's taking it off. And we know this is the most recent timeline. Then she leans into the flower and Marie goes, Yeah, we all go. She lost her smell because of COVID. Marie says that, oh God, she lost her smell because of COVID.

And the second Marie finishes saying it, she basically turns to the camera, the character, and goes, I can't smell. And we're like, yeah, we got it. And then she dies off screen which also we didn't need to happen because I feel like just just pick one thing like you don't have to hit it on us over and over again for us to get the point but I thought that was bad. The Beatles were on Ed Sullivan. What? That's never been explained.

Yeah. This movie came out November 1st, Griffin, on 2600 streams. Hey, we should mention the box office game is brought to you by our friends at Regal. And here's the thing. You join the Regal Crown Club, you accumulate those points, you can get upgrades on concessions. As we've said before, as I said in previous episodes, they got a site where you can usually spend points to buy weird movie chachkes, the kind of stuff I love. But also you can upgrade to Regal Unlimited, which is an incredible deal if you're someone who likes to go see movies on a regular basis. Promo code blank check?

Code blank check, 10% off your first three months. Three months? November 1st, 2024. This film opened on 2600 screens for $4.8 million. It's not a successful film. 100 screens, $4.8 million. It's not a successful film. No. Some of the release date jockeys start to make us think, is Sony confident about this movie? Because it was like, oh, they're pushing it up.

They were going to stagger it. They're going wide. And it just wasn't at any festivals really. I think it premiered at AFI, but you know. And it has not done well and will, I'm sure, vanish from theaters immediately. Now what's number one? The number one movie in America is called Venom, colon, The Last Dance. That's right, Griffin, a film we've both seen.

I thought it was not very good. Oh, you saw it too. I saw it with Alex. Yeah, it's not very good. No. It's got a couple things. It does, but then it also looks so much of it is set in a lab and i'm just like why isn't this about Like venom being silly. I would say like every single thing that happens

with She would tell her geofore and juno temple two actors. I love Is so radically uninteresting is so radically uninteresting. Just the most boilerplate shoe leather explaining plotty shit seemingly to set up spin-offs or sequels or whatever where I'm just like, no one is buying a ticket for this. Show like Venom giving Eddie a wedgie. Like that's what we're all paying for.

It's so stupid. And it's like that's like the thing they should have learned from the first movie is like, oh, no one cares about like the lab. Symbiote drama or whatever. I don't think the second movie is like perfect either, but it at least had the right idea of just like, just do the crazy shit. I don't think any of those three films really work. No, I think the first one actually is the most successful and that's not a great thing.

I think the second one is my favorite but all the one is Incoherent. Yeah, but I think that's maybe the best approach to a venom move I think that's my test because Tom Hardy talking to himself is the best stuff in those movies Because Tom Hardy gives so much of a shit and the second one I just it's like a lot of like carnage yelling and CGI action That's really shitty and like the problem is the first movie was like a mistake where it's like they're trying to good movie trying to make a normal movie and Tom Hardy is hijacking and doing something weird and the tension of watching him work against it.

Very similar to like the captain Jack Sparrow feeling when those pirates movies started, right? Of like, holy shit, this is like crazy that he's doing this within the machinery of this kind of thing. And then you get to the sequels and you're like, well, if the movies are being designed to let Captain Jack Sparrow do his thing,

then that tension is gone. The electricity is gone. And I feel like the Venom movies similarly could not figure out if we know now that people like the weird Tom Hardy shit, then what is the movie in relation to what he's doing? I don't know but the best shit in that movie is when he's in Vegas, of course, of course, that's all we're paying for. Yes And let them be Carlton is our what's it called? Fuck. Let there be carnage

Let them be I feel like that one is what if we built the whole movie out of the weird shit and it's too much And then this one is like what's how do we do some of the fucking plot shit? This is they just stop whatever Number two the box of snow madam web an animated film the world robot. Yeah, still have not seen I think it's pretty good Yeah, I'm going to take my little cousins venom last dance got prioritized My nine-year-old cousin little George found venom boring, which is probably the most damning review I have heard of any movie all year Number three the box office horror sequel small to mild to

Her mixed things some people really like it. So I'm performing a certainly a very profitable film Yeah, but not maybe the breakout they hoped for we've been Last decade or so there's been like sequel growth on the horror breakouts, usually. And this one is dropping. Yeah, I think making it so long was maybe an interesting choice, or maybe it's just you're not catching people off guard. It's another thing Phenacy has talked about recently

on Big Pick that is, there's been an interesting year of studio horror largely underperforming and indie horror growing. And it's like, oh, like movies that cost less than a million are making 10 million and that's exciting. Right, like Terrifier, obviously. But movies that cost like 20, that used to always reliably make 60

are now ending up at like 30. Yeah, your night swims. Number four, the box office is Conclave. A fun time at the movies. Very enjoyable film and I think I want to say on Mike. Tucci's Touch Returns. Yep. Kind of the first movie where Tucci doing his thing really worked for me.

He's doing his thing. God are we happy to have it back. Very happy in a little bit. Yes. So really happy for that. Conclave fun here. Not fun. Have you seen We Live in Time? I have, I did not care for it. Some people like that one.

Yeah. Haven't seen it. Terrifier 3. Is another movie that felt a little overstated for me at times. It's not as extreme as here, but I had a little bit of the same problem of like, I want this movie to breathe a little more. There is such power to just letting Pugh and Garfield play off each other

that the movies like focus on the most extreme scenes, be they like extreme sadness or like the most overstated version of charm started to feel a little suffocated, suffocating to me. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Anora, which is doing very well. Yeah, you know, there's good movies out there, and I'm seeing some of them. Beetlejuice,

an insane success. Huge hit. Yeah. Especially in a year where Warner Brothers has seemingly shown an allergy to releasing films successfully. Released its ass to the public, largely. I was saying to you that it like that's the only movie

they haven't mangled. And then you reminded me that the first three months of the year- They were crushing it. They had Dune, they had fucking Godzilla versus Kong. And I want to say they had one other one that did okay. Sure. But like two genuine blockbusters.

And then it's just been a series of like Sideshow Bob stepping on rakes. Essentially, yes. Their other hit that you're forgetting is, no, I guess that's it. I mean, they've mangled Twister overseas. Wonka from last year. No, no, the rest of it is, you know,

Furiosa underperforming, Joker obviously underperformed. Horizon. Horizon, that was a really, you know, Trap did fine. They did pretty good actually, 42. Sure. But like, and they might have hoped for more like a 60 right for the start of their yeah They're sharp relationship, right? And should believe still out honestly trap actually did alright juror number two. They're seemingly yes I mean, this is the litany of their mistakes I mean Clint should make one final movie about how Zaslav tried to railroad the release of sure number two

He must now needs to make a movie about Zaslav Railroading him and he should play Zaslav. Here's bad. I hope I kind of hope like you yeah Zemeckis like takes a while off and like doesn't do something. Yeah. Yeah, and like if he wants to make something Fine, but it better not be fucking Back to the Future the musical or whatever. It's crazy. I mean, I know they've announced a closing date on Back to the Future. There are two Robert Zemeckis musicals currently running on Broadway. The Beatles are just running on Broadway right now? I mean, that's not-

Death Becomes Her, just opened. I haven't heard the most amazing things about either, but they do exist. Yeah. It makes sense that the stuff he used to make would translate to a musical. Yeah, it just underlines how much this guy used to be tapped in and has made things that survived, if not even grown, versus him continuing to put out stuff

that it just does not connect in a large way. Even if they have their defenders, you know? Make them believe about how hard it is to be a rich director. Maybe that's more interesting. Maybe that's it. Here's a crazy stat I'm gonna throw out. And obviously the asterisk heroes, two of them went straight to streaming.

I think the combined box office totals domestically of all of his films since Flight. Probably don't add up to Flight. Yeah, like Flight made 90. Yeah, yeah, cause it's like 10, 40, 10, 6. Ally did 40? Yeah, Ally did 40. Lock and Marwin did 10. Here won't probably even make it to 10.

Maybe it'll make it to 10, I don't know. Pretty rough. Pretty rough. Yep. He's just pooping out black hats, basically. He's, oh, my man. Sadly, he's pooping out black hats left and right. Tune in next week for... Oh, our longest episode ever. Yeah, so don't, you know what?

Maybe this one's a little shorter. Next week's really long. Mulholland Drive with Leslie Headland. I think it's a great episode of very- I think so, it's all over the place. On topic conversation. Right. It stems in directions, but it's all connected.

Yeah. Back to Lynch. Yeah. Back to David Lynch as we barrel towards the end of Twin Peaks and such things like that. Yes. And on Patreon, of course, we're doing Andrew Lloyd Webber. We're talking about musicals barreling towards a cat's Christmas. And in one day's time, our Burger Report episode will be released.

Okay. And just two quick notes, because this is a current episode being recorded on a quick turnaround so we can talk to more relevant present things. Apple, great company that's never done anything wrong, instituted new policies that have added a surcharge if you are subscribing for Patreon memberships through their app on any device. So we just want to alert all of our listeners, anyone who is thinking about joining the Patreon, had a membership that they're going to resume later, we strongly encourage everyone to use a browser. And avoid that added surcharge. Yeah, it's a charge that cannot be avoided. It does not go to us.

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