Blank Check with Griffin & David - Hollow Man with Alex Ross Perry

Episode Date: February 25, 2018

Writer/director Alex Ross Perry (Nostalgia, Golden Exits) returns to Blank Check to discuss 2000’s invisible sci-fi slasher, Hollow Man. But why is this not your grandfather’s invisible man movie? What was the running Joey Slotnick bit on The Late Late Show with Craig Kilborn? Does this film lack the satire and point of view of Verhoven’s past movies? Together they discuss the career trajectory of Kevin Bacon, poorly executed Tarantino-esque schoolyard jokes, the original Dark Universe of the 1990s and why this film’s poor reception caused Verhoeven to retreat back to the Netherlands. This episode is sponsored by Serial Box - False Idols and Audible.

you know what matt it's amazing what you can do when you don't have to look at yourself in the podcast anymore. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wondered what line you'd pick. I had no idea. Hi, everybody. I'm Griffin, and I was two hours late to recording today. God, it was insane. David Sims, hi.

Hi. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. You guys are just listening to an episode of a podcast. You're just like, oh, it's Sunday night. Blank checks in my feed. Yeah, I fucked up badly. I've been losing my mind and I've been staying up until 6 a.m. and then I slept through.

Ben and I were talking about how you sent us a text, like one of your late texts where we get a text from you at like 3 in the morning and we're like, who's this for? Who does he think he's texting right now well that's also me to asleep people not realizing it's that time and also three o'clock is when i'm just getting started oh god you mean in the words of ron shelton yeah

oh god i read this interview very topical joke by the time the nyc movie guru interviewed ron shelton and i read the interview my friend and it is is worth reading. Ron Shelton doesn't like dirty jokes or fart humor. FYI. That's a guy. That's weird. I know. Because they're definitely fart jokes in Just Getting Started, right? I have no idea.

We haven't seen it, but there has to be at least one. All right. Let's not get too sidetracked. Sorry. Let's get sidetracked. Yeah. I'm losing my mind. Just stop losing your mind, okay?

I gotta stop it. Make a promise. I, well, look, here's, and on the record, I've been going crazy, staying up late, working on this part that I really want to get. And by the time this episode comes out, I probably will have not gotten the part. On the record, baby. On the record. Someone else will be doing the job by the time.

But at least you went crazy. Yeah. But here's the other thing. If I do somehow get the part, then else will be doing the job by the time. But at least you went crazy. Yeah. But here's the other thing. If I do somehow get the part, then this will seem awesome. Yeah, fair enough. But that's not going to happen. I'm not going to get it. Can I interject with a funny thing here?

Please. Yes, please. Great guest. The level of casualness with which you're projecting, with your legs crossed and that cup of coffee, is so at odds with how late you are. It's your... You should be like... Pow.'s yours you should be like how

yeah you should be like super professional right now like which he looks he looks deeply like sure an absolute ready to go right he looks marinesque i think your your point is that i it's it's not arrogant casualness it's a professional what you're saying is i'm the most professional person i mean the way you hold that mug is very professional it's very andy richter like just leaning right in i'm trying to you know i i feel like i almost sunk the ship i'm trying to pull the titanic out of the ocean we're recording this episode because there's i would alex asked me uh like is this the latest griffin has ever been correct and i was like i think so for an episode we then record yes but you have just not shown a couple times but i don't think you've ever been

like there's one time i remember distinctly when my bathroom collapsed there was the bathroom time and there was the time when you like left your wallet at home or you like lost your wallet or something i lost my wallet yeah those were both in the old days those are the ucb days and then and then the lang the uh oh yeah that's right episode i see i'm good i i took the mic away thank you yes me and rachel lang hung out for quite a while i think this was the longest this is the this is the worst i've been i'm a fucking shit doesn't matter me and alex have all don't spoiler who the guest was yeah could be anyone Alex

Jones yes today we have Alex Jones on the podcast I was gonna throw something else in there but even off the top of my head I couldn't think of

many other Alex somethings I know I was like how do I not know Trebek I immediately thought of

immediately thought of Alex Tromboli from American Vandal who's not even a real person it makes you realize though there isn't really an iconic I immediately thought of Alex Tromboli from American Vandal, who's not even a real person. It makes you realize, though, there isn't really an iconic Alex of the generation. You have the ability to become the first name Alex, maybe.

Alex D. Lins? Well, yeah. He had his shot. I'd say you and him were neck and neck, but you maybe started pulling ahead. What's in a name? I feel like you could, you should put Alex D. Lins in one of your movies.

He hasn't made a movie since 2007. All right, forget it. Ready for comeback. This is your Tarantino reclamation project. I just saw a picture of him and he kind of looks like a guy who could be in sort of like a, you know, like a domestic drama

or like an indie movie or something. He looks like a guy. He's got glasses. Normal guy. He actually does. He looks like someone. He could be like a domestic drama or an indie movie or something. He looks like a guy. He's got glasses. Normal guy. He actually does. He looks like someone. He could be like a barista in a movie. He would fit perfect in a Listen Up, Philip.

We could get him in there, but I'll think of another Alex by the end of the episode. Okay. Cool. You were sort of trying to surreptitiously introduce our guest. Our guest today, a returning guest. A favorite. A friend.

Huge fave. He is the director of films such as Listen Up, Philip. Yeah. And Queen of Earth. Sure. And Golden Exits, which will have come out. When does this come out? This is posting February 26th.

Oh, great. So it'll probably still be at Metrograph. There you go. Where it opens. It opened two weeks ago. Go see it at Metrograph. And opens where it opened two weeks ago go see it at Metrograph and other places in the internet

and country and city are your movies going to still be on Filmstruck how long does that last for at least a year okay so yeah so go to Filmstruck go watch like Implex

or whatever all my movies are on Filmstruck yeah and you have a lot of great bonus material a lot of interviews that you're conducting people are conducting with you

it's a treasure trove a lot of stuff and the new movie's out so yeah this is are conducting with you it's a treasure trove a lot of stuff and the new movie's out so yeah this is really time to and it's a good movie and I tried to send Alex after I saw it

this metaphor that I had described to my girlfriend about I get to describe metaphors to her about a magnet sweeping through iron filings and moving them around

without picking them up and I think Alex was just completely baffled by that email. I got it. But thank you guys. Great to be back. Most famously known for, of course, the Insomnia episode. That's his biggest credit. Right, right, right, right.

We didn't say his name. Alex Ross Perry. Thanks for being here. This is, of course, a podcast about filmographies. Oh God, what a disaster this episode is. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and have given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes

they bounce. Baby. And this is This is it for Hollywood ball. Yes. We have put ellipses around this miniseries. I'm going to try and talk you into an L bonus. Okay. I think we could do an L bonus. And skip Black Book. Yeah.

I don't know. skip tricked which is not really a trick yes but I I think I think there might be some value and Emily Ishida was pitching me on an L bonus and I was kind of like but she was not the first to like a lot of people a lot of people guys gotta do L yeah uh so but anyway but this is the end of Hollywood Paul I'm not against it this is the end of Hollywood Paul yeah and it's weird because it's kind of viewed as a check bounce but... Yeah. Is Hollywood Paul, is that what he was called at the time? Yes. Well, we call him that.

No, but this miniseries is called Paul Verhoeven in Hollywood. It's called Pod Ship Casters. Pod Ship Casters. In the two hours we had hanging out here, I didn't ask what this was called or where you're at with Verhoeven now that this is the end. Well, you hate spoilers. Yeah.

But I just, you know, so I was caught up to speed because by the time people hear this, they will have heard all the others. Correct. At this point,

we have recorded every Verhoeven episode but one. I won't reveal which one. But none of them have come out yet. No, of course not. To give you a time and a place,

we're recording this before The Last Jedi has been released. Yes, that's right. Before Griffin's even seen it. Before The Greatest Showman has been released as well. Before The Greatest Showman's been released as well. Before The Greatest Showman.

We're in a pre-GS. Oh, yeah. I missed that screening because it was on Sunday afternoon and I have people in my life who I want to spend my time with. It is post-post. It is post-post.

Post us seeing posts. Yeah, oh, but pre-post. But pre-us releasing posts. Yeah, that's true. We recorded our post episode. Have you seen post yet? No, can't wait. It's great. But by the time this comes out, I will. So I should have just said, yeah. Have you seen post yet? No. Can't wait. It's great.

But by the time this comes out, I will. So I should have just said, yeah, I've seen it. I saw it two months ago. And on the record, what's your review? It's amazing.

I think you'll love it. I think you'll dig it. There's almost 0% chance of me not liking it. Yeah. Much like there was almost a 0% chance of me not liking

Hollow Man when I saw it twice opening weekend. Twice opening weekend? Oh my, I'm so glad you're the guest on this. So this is the movie where we were kind of like, chance of me not liking hollow man when i saw it twice opening weekend twice opening weekend oh my i'm so glad you're the guest on this so this is the movie where we were kind of like who's gonna want this one you know like and i did float to you a long while ago in like an email thread i was like do you think alex would want to do hollow man it was like a sort of a random yeah right and then you like emailed the second i think the Justice League episode dropped so that the Paul news went live

and you were like, can I do Hollow Man? I will reveal when it comes up the very ulterior motive for why I wanted this. Oh, amazing. There's a specific Hollow Man related reason

that I desperately wanted to somehow become part of the public record. Please tell me you're remaking Hollow Man. Please tell me this is your platform to announce that you're rebooting Hollow Man. I'm taking over Dark Universe. I'm me you're remaking Hollow Man. Please tell me this is your platform to announce that you're rebooting the Hollow Man. I'm taking over Dark Universe.

I'm directing the Johnny Depp Hollow Man movie. There's a specific reason that this movie loomed large for me that it'll come up organically. Yeah, because the crazy thing is we threw a flyer to Yoshida, our dear friend Mother of Blankies. The flyer is even too strong. I essentially Shanghai'd her where I was like

maybe you could do Hollow Man like where I was just like trying to think of a guest she's a beloved guest we were like why not have you on it looked like

she probably wasn't going to do our following miniseries after that she loves Verhoeven but she was like I don't I never even saw

Hollow Man so it was not a good fit right the reason that I saw this twice opening weekend this was a big summer

for me it was the first summer I had a friend who had a driver's license so we were free 2000 the license. So we were free. 2000, the summer of 2000. We were free. And we could go do whatever we wanted. I don't even know where you grew up. I don't know where

you're from. From Bryn Mawr. Okay. Outside of Philadelphia. So if anyone saw Hollow Man opening weekend at the King of Prussia movie theater, I was probably there. Odds were... Probably a 1 in ten chance probably friday and sunday but i'm not ruling out that it might have been friday and saturday

so what for you age 16 or how you know like what um was the was it like i can't wait to see this new verhoeven movie was it like i'm a big kevin bacon fan or was it just like there's an r-rated violent like horror movie out in August that I can't wait to see or are you an invisible guy or were you I was an invisible boy right

right all of the above I mean this was also a big special effects movie like if you were a film making nerd this movie was kind of

hyped up if you were watching HBO first looks yes and things in the 20 at the time this was huge for me but but all of the above. But this was, for me, right at the time where I was becoming aware of the whole game of talking about directors.

My whole thing would have been like, come on, guys, this is the director of RoboCop and other movies that we like. This isn't just some movie. This is part of a movie. Was it RoboCop and other movies that we like. This isn't just some movie. This is part of a new movie. Was it RoboCop Total Recall? Or were you also into Showgirls and Starship Troopers? I was only at that time into Starship Troopers. I probably hadn't seen Showgirls yet. Okay.

But I was just like, guys, we know Paul Verhoeven. This is an important person. Right. So that was it. And also, for the other reason that I'll get to shortly. Did you get people to accompany you? This is like he's got us on a string. It's not that exciting.

When it's revealed, you'll roll your eyes probably. I can't wait. Did you get people to go with you? Yeah. It was different groups. My friend with the driver's license. Okay. Right.

Sure. Both times? Maybe. Maybe. I just think we liked the effects. The effects are very fun to talk about. This was like, we also had fake IDs to get into R-rated movies because this movie theater really carded. Yeah.

So whenever we could get into one, we felt like we'd gotten away with something. Generally, it would then be a double. You'd stick around or maybe buy a PG-13 movie. Right. But I saw this movie twice opening weekend and then not again until three days ago. Wow. Wow. I did not see this movie in theaters because it was rated 18 because I lived in Britain.

And, you know, in Britain, movies are rated 12, 15 or 18. And if you're under 18, you can't get it. It's not an R-rated thing where it's about getting an accompanying guardian. It was rated 18, which only movies that are either like incredibly sexually explicit or really violent are rated 18 this movie's kind of both yes uh yes and uh sexual violence will usually get you an 18 yeah and um so i had to wait for video on hollow man but i had the poster in my room whoa before you'd seen it yes because those are the days when i would just get posters you could like go to the movie theater i could go to the odian and just be like do you have any like leftover posters I love that era and they would just give

them to me I still do that I bet they do I see that like sometimes when I'm at a screening it's some like far away that's a thing like they don't do it here like I don't think you could walk into like the AMC 34th street but like I think if you're like a local theater like they're just like yeah we got a bunch of shit in the back we don't need. Like standees and all that stuff. I'm a man of many regrets in life. Sure. I'm filled to the brim with regrets. One of the top ones for me

was I went to what at the time I believed would be the last public screening of Margaret before the Save Margaret campaign happened when it just played at... Did you see it at the Cinema Village? The Sunshine. No, before that.

It was originally only at the Sunshine. And it was there for like 10 days in September before it was ousted. And I was so obsessed with it that I knew, okay, this is the last day it's going to be playing. I saw the latest showing on the Thursday before they kicked it out. So you asked for the poster?

I saw them pulling the poster down. I didn't ask for it. Oh. And I was like, they're never going to release this movie on DVD because it was caught up in so much weird legal limbo. No, I remember at the time it did feel like this sort of ephemeral thing. I felt like if I don DVD because it was caught up in so much weird legal limbo I remember at the time it did feel like

this sort of ephemeral thing I felt like if I don't see a second time in theaters I will never see it again because the cause didn't pop up for like two more months but I was like

I could get this Margaret poster and even though it then probably became more available the idea of it being like the one pulled down from the sunshine no I just remember

I mean I don't know if you remember the Hollow Man poster do you guys remember it's like sort of a silhouette white if you remember the Hollow Man poster. Do you guys remember? It's like a sort of a silhouette, white on black. Yeah, it's a good poster. When you said you were a man of many regrets, I thought you were going to say that you didn't see this in the theater. I also didn't see it in the theater. You were probably pretty young.

Yeah, I had not seen it until two nights ago. Oh, okay. I rented it whenever it came out on TV. I also realized I told a lie because I did rent this on DVD and watch it right when it came out because this was a big early DVD. Sure. Yes.

Because it was like the kind of movie you wanted in the DVD format with the good sound. Right. And I believe it had, you know. Special features about the making of. The normal 2000 era special features. A featurette. Do you guys remember Superbit? Yes, this was a Superbit.

This was a Superbit. Superbit was so easy to make. I'm glad I was trying to remember what that was called. I could picture the silver box but I couldn't remember I was going to say ultra bit it was super bit premium DVD videos and it had like

this steel border frame around the movie poster yeah it looked like you had bought the Terminator 2 DVD for all DVDs for all DVDs and the idea was

we're going so fucking extreme on the picture quality here even though it's standard def right that we don't even have space for special features right it's all the movie that was like the big deal was like if you were a real like yeah like kind of like cinephile you'd get a super bit but then you'd also have to

get the regular commercial release so that you could have the making of stuff are you saying that when you watch this movie for the first time you watch it on a super i watch it on a super um congrats to you for watching. I bought the Blu-ray, so I own this movie on Blu-ray now. I'm going to buy it. Which I usually with blank check, I enjoy when we pick a new director.

I go to Amazon, I load up on the Blu-rays because they're usually cheap because Blu-rays, you can get them for like two bucks. Yeah. And then there is always that moment where I'm like,

yeah, but I'm not going to buy this one. This I can rent. Sure, sure. Do I want to own this forever? But that's why I own like The Weight of Water on Blu-ray or whatever. No, on iTunes, I think. But I had the poster. Can you tell me the tagline?

Because I think it's a great tagline. Fuck. I was looking at the poster last night. It's a question and an answer. Is it what would you do or some hypothetical pondering? Yeah. Think you're alone, think again. Oh, okay. That is a question and an answer. Yeah. Think you're alone. Think again. Oh, okay.

There's a question and an answer. Yeah. Griff, Griff, cut the door. Cut the door. Let me get the door. Delivery. Well, I don't think

we ordered anything. Oh, yeah. I think what I think box. Let me just drop this off. I'll call up my supervisor and see if a false delivery

okay just leave oh wow alright and he's gone oh he's gone what's in the box what's in the box what's in the box

playing music or something is this a cereal box hello I'm Sarah Koenig and I'm inside a box oh god it's a cereal box yeah it is I thought you guys wanted a cereal box hello i'm sarah koenig and i'm inside a box oh god it's a cereal box yeah i thought you guys wanted a cereal box uh i i think there's there's just been a bit of a mix-up i asked myself who would want a cereal box why would someone order that i think a lot of what

is this box doing here sarah sarah yeah yeah so i know you're monologuing you very well i'm inside a box uh ben can you just get the box off of her Like you know just open it up Alright Here There you go Alright Sarah hi

Sarah Hi what's going on You're a legend in podcasting Thanks for being here Thank you And I thought to myself Why is he complimenting me Is this for some greater gain

Or is he just being nice Sarah If you can just focus in on me for a second i know that's hard i started david's eyes he seemed trustworthy but was i falling for him well could i be objective anymore sarah um let me tell you about cereal box blank check is sponsored by cereal box this week and adaptive studios and uh that's it's an app that uh national public radio has called the HBO of reading

you work for National Public Radio so you know what I'm talking about I do radio device we use to listen to

audio alright well Adaptive Studios they're an entertainment studio they reimagine how film and TV and digital projects are developed

and produced and distributed much like I reimagined the podcast when I created the first podcast correct and thanks for that

by the way because this is going well for us you're welcome um mail kip um a cereal box brings you gripping stories written by best-selling and award-winning teams of writers who like develop these stories in a room like a tv writer's room they have new episodes released every week and you can read or listen to all the serials at no extra cost. And you can switch between listening and reading in one click. So like if you're on the subway and listening to it, but then you get off the subway and want to read it on the app, it'll pick up right where you left off. I thought to myself, is there any kind of special deal?

I guess I'll never know. Some of these questions can never be answered. Well, they've got this new serial called false idols uh and our listeners can get this series now with a 20 discount on the first season of false idols if you go to serialbox.com slash blank check a 20 discount wow now for some perspective usually people pay a hundred percent uh right well you get 20 off if you go to s-e-R-I-A-L-B-O-X dot com slash blank check. Only paying 80%? You have to go to cereal box dot com slash blank check,

or you can go to the redeem page and use the code check 18. Then you will get a 20% discount on the first season of False Idols. So I have to check the box 18 times? No, you just use the code check 18 on the redeem page. But what about jay i'm gonna let you finish but let me talk about let me talk about false idols for one second sure sure thing you know it's about an fbi linguist leila el-dib who is deep undercover posing as an heiress in the middle east and has to infiltrate highest echelons of society trace some priceless relics uh and her troubled past and her growing feelings for an art dealer's son complicate her judgment and there's a big terrorist plot that

she has to uncover and she has to decide where her loyalties lie it's a you know it's heady stuff it's like the kind of stuff that you like to dig into yeah that sounds interesting but it still leaves one question what about the nisha call forget the nisha call just for one second and let me remind you america cannot forget about the nisha call s-e-r-i-a-l-b-o-x.com slash blank check or go to the redeem page and use code check 18 for 20 off the first season of false idols oh well thank you i want to put you back in the box. Before I do, just say, Jay and Anand did it together. Oh, all right. Hey, sorry about that.

Wrong. I was supposed to deliver this to Flat Stanley. Do you know where he lives? Oh, boy. He's always mailing himself everywhere. He's very famous. Everyone knows who Flat Stanley is. Forget it. I'll figure it out.

Sorry. And as I was telling Alex off mic you know 15 or so minutes before you showed up whatever period of time that was um kevin bacon is my favorite actor as i think i might have mentioned on this podcast and you've mentioned a lot in your life you'd like to put some bacon on the dish if you can i've love a side of bacon or a you know on top a crumble yeah mean a strip in the middle. You're fine with whatever. And boy,

you get some bacon strip in this movie. This was, this was one of those first movies whenever. You get some bacon strip. Yeah, oh yeah,

we'll get into it. Is this the most CGI penis? No, because I was thinking it's under this and Watchmen. I think this trumps it.

This has you more thinking about the fact that his, you know, dick is sort of flapping around as he's doing all these horrible things like killing poor Greg Grunberg. Yes, and this movie will spoil it. He was killed by a naked man. And this movie has the dick depicted in different states. Yeah, right, right, right. You rarely had to use CGI.

They didn't scan Billy Crudup's dick. They scanned Kevin Bacon's dick. That's his dick. They definitely like, they just had an artist come up with a dick for Watchmen. This is Kevin Bacon's dick

in 15 different forms. Right. Yeah, they probably had a whole day of like photographing it from every angle. I mean, pointedly they did.

I read a lot of stuff on this movie. I loved Kevin Bacon. Yes, you love Kevin Bacon. And so I was very excited for this movie because it was

that rare Kevin Bacon vehicle. Yes. Which, you know, usually he was your, you know, your off-ball guy. But he had had Stir of Echoes the year before, which I think is an underrated little movie. It's like a nice little scary movie that got totally blown out of the water by the Sixth Sense. Yeah. And then he was in My Dog Skip. Sure, this same year.

This same year. And Hollow Man. And then after that yeah he stopped being a star because like 80s he's a leading man and then 2000s he becomes either like a villain or like the right hand man good guy right but you skip the 90s you skip the 90s in which he has i'm sorry that's what i meant the 90s was that the 90s was that right there's a lot of heavies heavies, weird guys, like this incredible character run

that is the basis of the game, of the Six Degrees game, where it's like he just pops up in a lot of things in a lot of different scenarios with a lot of great actors. JFK, Murder in the First, River Wild. Run it down for me. Yeah, The Big Picture,

which I think is a great movie. The Christopher Guest one? Yes. Tremors, Flatliners, JFK, which he's so good in. Few Good Men, which is where I fell in love with him. The Air Up There, in which he's circumcised on screen. It's the second thing I've told you about circumcision today, Alec. I have to wonder what the first one is, Griffin.

The River Wild, which he's, I i think i love that movie yeah he's i love him in that movie uh murder in the first his only sag nomination and then river waltz got a globe nomination right i think that's right i think for both those movies people thought he might get the oscar and then he didn't paul 13 sleepers and then sleepers is where he really starts to be like let me just be like really monstrous on screen a lot of the time. Wild Things. Yeah. Stir of Echoes.

Yeah. He starts engaging in the kinky side. He gets a little kinky, right? He does. Even when he's not playing sexually explicit characters, there's a sort of weird dark charm to what he's doing a lot. How do you feel about Bacon? Well, that's a great run of

notable movies. There's nothing in there that everyone's like, wait, what is that? I'm learning with some good directors too. He was never an anonymous guy and I was thinking during this movies like this are so amazing because there was this brief window that I was trying to figure out that I'm sure you'll have more

on where guys like your Bacons and your Goldblooms and your Cages suddenly somehow became like a viable studio leading man for a summer release

where it's like they're kind of locked Nicolas Cage somehow goes from Wild at Heart to Con Air in like six years and like

Kevin Bacon somehow goes from like you know those things to this in like ten years Goldbloom had a point where he was in three of the 20 highest grossing movies of all time,

which is crazy to think about. And that's like after he was making Transylvania. The tall guy. Right, right, right. Trapped and deep cover. And then suddenly he's just deleting. And I feel like Bacon

is the same kind of thing in this movie, which I believe as a thing totally ends around this time. Yes. Those guys are either movie stars, but then there's no more like Steve Buscemi becomes the leading man in a movie. No.

He gets to be in there, but I feel like watching this movie and thinking, oh, there is a time where a 45-year-old man who became famous 15 years ago is now the lead in a studio summer movie yeah yeah like that was to me a very interesting thing of being like but also no version of this now i mean we could just talk about bacon for this entire episode but you go like obviously footloose is the big thing right after being in like but at that point he'd already been in like three iconic movies he's already in

like animal house he's been on friday the 13th right but but like footloose is what makes him like a leading man, right? Sure. And there's a career he couldn't play out from there. And even She's Having a Baby. He has those 80s leading guy roles where he's handsome. He's a handsome guy. But he's talked about the fact that he felt uncomfortable by the way he was sort of viewed after Footloose. Quicksilver?

Sure. He does a lot of comedies. He does a lot of leading man stuff. But when he gets to the 90s. Oh, and he's in Diner, of course. Right, right, right. So good in that. Right, he's got those three movies before Footloose.

But then when he gets to the 90s, he wants to shake that off. Sure. And I think there's a lack of vanity to him that I've always really loved. For a guy who could have been just a very conventional leading man at that point, doing things where he's not above the title, or where he's number two, or where he's playing the oddball, you know? Or just doing like heavy lifting support

like Apollo 13. Love him in that. He seems to just fucking love acting, you know? Yes. And I read, I don't know if you guys read this. I must have read this when it was published as well, which was weird because I hadn't read it. He has a very good reputation too.

Yes. He's like a nice guy. Hardworking dude. Good guy. He, when this movie was coming out, wrote a column that I think ran two or three consecutive weeks in entertainment weekly called the hollow man diaries that must have been a big part of why i was so excited i have this called up okay oh no no i was i owned this copy of entertainment weekly and i read it over and over again his diaries and it includes

his utter depression over the uh flop of stir of echoes which came out while he was shooting this right and then just the miserable process of making this movie and being like cast in rubber and wax but it goes from him being miserable about trying to get this movie and thinking he wasn't gonna get to him being miserable about making this the first half of the diary is him trying to impress paul verho and get this gig. And their first choice was Robert Downey Jr. Interesting. Who turned it down, and he remembers reading in the trades,

he thought he was going to get it. He reads that they've offered to Robert Downey Jr., and he hits rock bottom. Right, right. Which you go, at this point, Kevin Bacon's been famous for like 20 years, right? Or has been a working actor for 20 years, has been hyper famous for like 15 of those,

and still is in this state where he's like, fuck, I'm not going to get the part. He's like Griffin Newman staying up until 6 o'clock in the morning being two hours late to his podcast because he's stressing out about getting a job. I'm an idiot. But he really fucking wanted this job and thought he wasn't going to

get it and felt like... There's a really touching thing at the end of the diary where he's complaining to his daughter who was like 8 at the time about like the movie and the toll it had taken on him and everything and she said daddy remember how excited you were when you got this and you were jumping up and down and crying like you really wanted this part

it's cool that he didn't think like I'm not going to get it because I'm kind of an older guy and I don't get the lead in movies anymore he thought he wasn't going to get it because he just thought he lost it and not only that right like that he had given it away where he's like I wasn't even the lead in movies anymore. He thought he wasn't going to get it because he just thought he lost it. And not only that, right, like he had given it away where he's like, I wasn't even trying to get leading parts anymore

so maybe, yeah, I can't. And you go, it's like him versus Downey Jr. And Downey Jr. was at like a real rocky state at this point. This was him like trying to get back up. Yeah. But he still had a couple more like slapdowns after this. This is like in between Wonder Boys and Ally McBeal. Well, Wonder Boys comes out

this same year. Right. Right. And Ally McBeal is a wannabe. In the variety piece where they say that he was the first choice, it says that he was just

filming Wonder Boys. Yeah. He was sort of on a reclamation tour. I think Downey Jr. probably wisely realized he couldn't play someone this monstrous

if he was trying to like get America's heart back. Which is also exactly why I think they wanted him to do this because he was so seedy at this point in time but he's like in in dreams as a creep like he had done some creeps uh recently so yeah down he was yeah down yeah so do you feel like bacon at this time like who does he have to impress in paul verhoeven who just maybe you've covered this but like is coming off of a pretty bad period himself yeah yes and not only that had just made a movie featuring essentially like animated you know Barbie and Ken dolls like it's not like he was like look I just worked with Casper Van D and Kevin so I don't know if I'm gonna like but he said he felt the need to make a movie that like worked you know he he was like feeling a little smarted that was what

compelled him to do this movie he doesn't like this movie right have we do you know about like he's he's very down on this movie online yeah after watching it yeah where he's just like i made that movie essentially to prove this point that i could still make like a movie that made money and he said he was so depressed afterwards that he was like, he moved back to Denmark. He like, right. And I think he kind of correctly said like, a lot of people could have made this movie. And I never felt that way

about a movie I made before. And I think he's right because the script for this movie is really weak. Yeah. Although Alex may disagree and I'm excited for, Alex has taken for the mystery

of why he wants to talk all about it and all the other things that are going to come up on this podcast. Sure. He's correct in a sense that no one else could have made his movies... The way they were made. Right. But this movie, everything that's interesting about it is Verhoeven. You know?

Sure, yes. There are sections of this movie, there are elements of this movie... And the visual effects. ...that feel a little more conventional. But I'm saying that, I consider that baked into the cake. Baked into the cake? I consider it baked into the cake.

I think everything that's interesting about the visual effects in this movie is very much in line with where he was at in terms of visual effects at that point in time. He was very excitingly engaged with that stuff. I mean, at least after Starship Troopers. Yes, for sure. Prior to that at all, really.

And he's just like, it just seems so pointless for him to make a movie that has no point of view and nothing to say. Which, all of the other movies,

RoboCop, Total Recall, right up until Starship Troopers, they all have a very distinct point of view. But also, a lot of those movies, in my recollection,

are things that other directors were always attached to like cronenberg attached to total recall right then verhoeven makes it and it's obviously the only good version of that movie that would have been made yes whereas this feels like and i have a fun list of uh potential other directors that verhoeven is not yeah but this feels like and again these are not all people of this exact moment but like i'm gonna try to find it because i wrote down some fun ones. There's the one obviously very Verhoeven-y hook to this movie which is

the invisible man would just be a creep. He would rape people. Right. That wasn't necessarily his idea. No. I assume the script had that idea. I'm also curious what the origin is of the like not your grandfather's blank and why that would have seemed like a good idea. Well I think there's an even bigger thing. I mean you made

your dark universe joke earlier, but there was this run that ends with this movie, essentially, but runs through the 90s of let's take the Universal Monsters. So you're saying

this Kenneth Branagh's Frankenstein. Even before that, Wolf. Bram Stoker's Dracula and Wolf. Yes. I think all four of these movies are let's take the classic

Universal Monsters. Which I think is right before this. Yes, the mummy is 99. Yes, but I think that's outside of this. The four movies I'm... No which I think is right before this. Yes, The Mummy is 99. Yes, but I think that's outside of this. The four movies I'm... No, I think that's in this.

The point I'm making is the four movies that are, what if we take the classic monsters and make them really sexual? Yeah, rated R. No, I agree with you on that. Which is Will Frankenstein, Dracula, and this. And then Shape of Water, weirdly, is a spiritual. Shape of Water is its own thing. You're saying this is the original Dark Universe?

Yes. Oh, man. Imagine if you united Nicholson Bacon Oldman De Niro and Arnold Vosloo that's a murderer's row but there was like

a lot of that stuff was happening for whatever reason but none of those I mean they're all kind of not your grandfather so and so and they're all sort of like modern takes

and the mummy was the only one that Universal actually did, which is the one that isn't hypersexual. But to that end, like, you know, like watching this

and thinking about it in the context of Verhoeven, who I love tremendously as a filmmaker, like, this is, like, this is not Stephen Summers

or like Stephen Norrington or like Len Weissman or like any of these kind of like genre-y guys who you can make from that era. An R-rated genre movie like any of them

could have done that but Verhoeven's like he's special he could do something else and instead he just kind of makes the like Van Helsing underworld version of this movie

Van Helsing's a good follow-up to what you were talking about that's the Avengers of the 90s dark universe trying to do it backwards yeah I kept on thinking

during this like could you imagine if this movie came out in like August of this year like, could you imagine if this movie came out in, like, August of this year? Like, how the whole fucking critical community would react to this movie? To this exact movie? Yes. Like, if it, yeah.

What I'm saying is, when this movie came out, everyone was like, ah, Diminishing Returns for Verhoeven. But it's so bizarre. I don't think it's a perfect movie. No. But it's so its own fucking thing, and it actually does have ideas in it. I don't think it has a coherent thesis, which the other Verhoeven movies, the Hollywood films, do.

I think this movie is more just batting around a lot of stuff, and the fact that the ending is such a shrug goes to show that he didn't really have anything he was winding up to say. I mean, this movie is, what if a guy was an invisible man, right? Okay, 20 minutes and he becomes invisible, and then immediately he attacks a woman squeezes her boobs right like i mean like two minutes in he squeezes kim dickens boobs 10 minutes in he's raped a woman and then there's

an hour and a half of movie left no there's like an hour i was watching the clock pretty close i was watching the clock because what i think is interesting about this movie is it's essentially the first half is kind of a character study of what would be the psychological effects if you didn't have. Yeah, kind of. It's sort of what would you do if you could get away with anything. Right. And then there's a point where the movie just becomes a slasher film. Yes, exactly.

The last half. One being picked off. That's like the halfway point. It's very strange how like non-specifically Verhoeven-y it is, but also to your point of what if it came out. I don't think at this time people thought about him. No, not really. I think I wrote you both an email about this

in the middle of your Catherine Bigelow series. I think this is a movie that could have been reviewed upon release without people mentioning that Paul Verhoeven made it. Because at the time, no one really took him seriously. Except that he was famous as having made hits, but no one was like, is Verhoeven back after the bomb of Starship Troopers? It was just like, whatever, this is some summer thriller.

He almost was viewed like Wolfgang Peterson, where it's like, you divorced Das Boot from the guy who's currently making Poseidon. I remember, because I would read all the fucking reviews of everything, whether or not I was seeing it and I remember everyone would just be like it's a dumb summer like fuck you whatever

and I remember Time Out New York was the one place that like viewed this of a piece with the Verhoeven arc. And I was like wait this is supposed to be an interesting movie like this is a movie that people are engaging with critically but it was the only review I read that was going like Verhohoeven's really smart

about the fact that if someone had the power to become invisible, a man would just use it for sexual deviancy. That's a point of view. But also, this confuses the fact that the other Paul Verhoeven movies were very satirical, but

also lurid and gross and sexual, and this is just lurid and gross and sexual this is removing this movie like satire which all of them all of them are every single one of them they're all comedies

in like a way even L and like still yeah L's a comedy he does these things that are like yeah but what's like absurd about this situation

is this thing that I can see because I'm this weird Dutchman with black humor he's Oatu the Watcher very much so yes the Dutch Oatu the Watcher. Very much so. The Dutch Oatu the Watcher. And yet like this just there's

no like but what's absurd about this is just like what's absurd about this is how much blood there is. And what's absurd about this is like watching an invisible boob gets like a boob gets squeezed by an invisible hand. Right. Well that's the thing By the way the only image from this movie I remembered other than the infrared penis

dangling. I remember the infrared dicks. I remember him smashing the dog to pieces for like no reason except they kind of needed him to do something crazy, you know, like it had been 10 minutes since he'd done something crazy. And I remember also Bacon describing in his diary how they shot that scene, which is he has a real dog. Yeah. And he's like, hey, doggy, hey, doggy.

And then he passes the dog off screen and is handed a fake dog full of blood that he then smashes around and when I rewatch it I notice he totally takes it out of frame the thing with this movie for me is that it has

some of the most bizarre upsetting I think brilliant imagery he's ever come up with in any film is that it has some of the most bizarre, upsetting, I think brilliant imagery he's ever come up with in any film. Because he's mostly just kind of into the visual possibilities of this guy. The stages of his body and the way he interacts with the elements. But there are moments in this movie where it feels like, there are images that feel like fucking like Unchained Underloo for me. Where it's like, this just makes me so fucking uncomfortable.

Like what? When she has the sort of makeshift flamethrower and he's in his weird burned state. Yeah, that's cool. That is very cool. Right. The rubber mask is cool too.

The rubber mask is incredible. The rubber mask is so good. It's super fucking upsetting. But I even think things like the groping are really bizarre the way they do the CGI fingerprint. The first groping are really bizarre the way they do the cgi fingerprint the first one is choking greg grunberg yeah some of the stuff where it's his

hands touching things the way it's realized is like really fucking creepy to me but my complaint is kind of like the set is sort of anonymous it's a weird donut underground right so much so many action sequences take place in a hallway it also feels to me like um i i was talking to to someone who worked on the shape of water yeah uh asking about how they got it down for that budget because the sets are so big in that movie when they're in like the underground lab yeah and they were like the secret is we only had like one set right and we shoot it from different angles and we redress it right and this feels like a movie where they came up with one section of the lab

and the whole movie takes place in these fucking hallways that they keep on shooting from different angles to make it look like it's an intricate series of like an underground maze. After the movie ended, I wrote this down, I went back and like, maybe I didn't exactly, but like there's like 37 minutes of this movie

that does not leave the lab. Except for one short scene with brolin and elizabeth shu at their house and then it's like a 40 second scene and then they're back to the lab and you're mostly in these hallways you know it's like it gets very repetitive entirely in this lab yeah from like 20 to 55 there's 60 seconds not in this lab which is weird which and it's also a very indifferently designed lab. But it also feels like if the movie was budget like $55? No, the budget was really high.

$95 million. It feels like $60 of that is special effects and the rest of it is like a set. Pointedly, it says on the Wikipedia, and who knows how accurate this is, the budget was $90 and $55 was just for the digital effects. I mean, that's perfectly logical. When he set out to make this movie, he was like,

I want to push fucking visual effects. $55 million goes towards CGI. The rest of it will do what we can. That balance is not weird. I mean, that's totally ordinary, I think. Right. It's cool that they were like, yeah, but also the movie can be violent and sexual.

Yeah. We're not going to protect our investment by making this movie accessible to people. No, it's a Columbia movie. It's a big studio movie. I mean, it came out in August, which in 2000 is your kind of dumping ground for your more lurid blockbusters. But yes. But it did pretty well.

I mean, it opened big. It did okay. It opened very big, especially considering August. And it did well overseas. It did okay. It made $190 worldwide. It made $73 domestic. I think that's a reason they might have been hesitant to cast Bacon, though.

It's like, A, we designed this movie to not need that big of a star. And B, will a star that well-known be okay being invisible for that much of the movie? Being this unsympathetic? Not being invisible. So we got to talk about billing because this is the first email I sent you guys once i fired this up i couldn't believe it i had totally forgotten even though i had the poster in my house uh in my room next to a training day poster with just a huge denzel and like a tiny sliver of ethan hawke's face behind it's like a great indifferent set design for some young man's bedroom yeah these movies are violent and then you would say why are those the two movies in

his bedroom? And then it's like, Oh, they're both released by the studio that made this movie. Right. And they both came out in the summer of 2000. It's a rom-com with a flashback to the character being a teenager in 2001. And those are the training days.

2001, I believe. Right. I said 2001. Yeah, no, I know. I was correcting myself.

You know, what does a really good version of that? The movie that you already love because you've seen it now, The Post. There's a scene at the beginning where they break into... One of the early break-in scenes, they're surrounded by Fox posters. And it's really good era-appropriate Fox posters. It's when Ellsberg is copying the papers. Oh, yeah, right, right. You're right.

You'll see. You'll love it. It's really good. I've loved it by now. Original Planet of the Apes. You've loved it. It's your favorite movie of the year, probably. Went wild for of the Bodies. You'll see. You'll love it. It's really good. I've loved it by now. Original Planet of the Apes. You've loved it. It's your favorite movie of the year, probably. Went wild for Odenkirk's performance. But you were going to talk about the Holloman billing.

Oh, yes. Okay, so the billing of this movie. Thank you, Alex. I'm just excited to talk about it because it's baffling. Is number one billed, Elizabeth Shue. Now, they got her first. Yes. Like, they made it very clear that the most important role for them was her because I think they viewed that as this is our Laurie Strode, you know?

Uh-huh. This is our final girl. That's really who the audience is going to have to connect with in this movie and thought maybe we'll get a down-on-his-luck character actor to play the Hollow Man. But still at this time, they were like, you know who can be our final girl is like a 40-year-old woman. Right, right. That's true. Like four years off of an Oscar nomination is kind of in a career swing. Well, let me give you her, you know, after, you know, Elizabeth Shue and as fucking Hamlet

2 says, dreamer with the fucking horse. Right. Isn't that the line? But she has a big 80s. Yeah, it's dreamer. She's a big 80s with Karate Kid and the Back to the Future sequels and Adventures in Babysitting and then she's in The Underneath

and then she's in Leaving Las Vegas suddenly she's like a serious actor so the 96 she's in The Trigger Effect the David Koepp movie forget that

then she's in The Saint so they both worked with Koepp they did both work with Koepp yeah Koepp's people The Saint is a huge bomb sure but it was a big paycheck for her yeah and she's above the title and she wouldn't have Keps people. The Saint is a huge bomb. Sure.

But it was a big paycheck for her. Yeah, and she's above the title. And she wouldn't have gotten that part pre-Leaving Las Vegas. That was a big revival. And then she's in Deconstructing Harry. Right. Then she's in Palmetto. What's Palmetto?

Oh, what's Palmetto? Volker Schwandorf. Woody Harrelson. It's a very sexy thriller. Gina Gershon, I believe. I think so, yeah. In a classic, like, mid-90s Gina Gershon role. If it's not the Bayou, it's, very sexy thriller Gina Gershon I believe I think so yeah in a classic like mid 90s

Gina Gershon role if it's not the bayou it's like essentially the bayou it's like everyone's sweaty and like the lawyer's office is like above above something I gotta see this

yeah there's like the lawyer's office is above something you know it's like that run it's true that run of mid 90s is like Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

or like Twilight you know these movies were like Savannah yeah yeah exactly Twilight's a weird one Robert Benton's Twilight Paul Newman

Hackman and Sarandon it's like hot movies about hot like sexual adults in Louisiana blood and wine yeah

indecent exposure or Decent Proposal that's what I'm thinking of right well that was actually a hit yeah that's also Woody that's also Woody

I mean Indecent Proposal has the best trailer of all time. Yeah, Woody had a sexy 90s. He did. Even though his hair was thinning and he was the idiot from Cheers. I mean, no offense, Woody. He has a weird underbite. Palmetto is very solid. Check that out if you like Elizabeth Shue.

I'll check that out. There's like a very sexual, like, I think Woody Harrelson's either a cop or a lawyer, but there's a very sexual, like, friskingking thing that becomes a consensual bit of fondling between him and Elizabeth Shue. Shue is great. I mean, she's very... But I'm just... Cousin Bette, whatever.

Molly? I've never even heard of that. I looked Molly up. It's like a handicapped adult movie. Oh my God. It's either Down syndrome or autism or something. I instantly wanted to see it. That's actually autistic.

She's so fucking good in Leaving Las Vegas. A movie I've never been crazy about. I like that movie. I don't know. How do you feel about Leaving Las Vegas? I haven't seen it since. Yeah, I haven't seen it since I was a teenager. I bet it would hold up.

I think it doesn't hold up. I think she's the element that holds up entirely. I think it doesn't hold up I think she's the element that holds up entirely and it was because she was mostly like a kind of teen star in the 80s

it was like a big deal that now like oh wait this is a serious actor right and then she doesn't really get the parts

that play to her ability she makes some terrible decisions I would say or whatever she just doesn't get the right roles this is her last role and at this point she's 40

which in this awful fucking industry is like but what's cool is that they're the same age in this movie I like that they're both I like that they're both

adults and they're pros they're pros it's a very Verhoeven thing even after Starship Troopers like she's a sexy adult he's a handsome adult man her character likes sex

a lot in this movie I don't know if you noticed that that seems to be the only defining character trait she has. Unfortunately. That she really is sexually aggressive whenever she's alone. Right. But it's cool that they're both, it's not, I mean I don't know

who in 2000 it would have been. I'm sure we can think of something but it's not like 30 year old woman and 45 year old man. Right. Kind of gross. It's not Denise Richards and Casper Van Dien. Right. Or like Denise Richards and Kevin Bacon. The movie Wild Things. right right kind of gross it's it's not denise richards and casper vandy right or like or like denise richards and kevin bacon kevin bacon in the movie wild things yes right um yes it's not wild yeah yeah uh no but i think you're right i also just but i do think like it's almost crazy

to me to think that bacon like had to fight for this role because i mean it's like he was born to play this role which he might be upset to hear right but it's like you need born to play this role, which he might be upset to hear. Right. But it's like, you need a guy who you're only going to see for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever. Yeah. Who you just need to know like, yeah, the second that guy goes invisible, he is just being the worst. Well, you know that because he has like

a knee-length leather jacket. Yes. He has a knee-length leather jacket. He lies to Congress like at the drop of a hat. Yeah. And he tells the most convoluted, terrible Superman anal sex joke. Like eats up like a minute and a half of screen time.

I remember that as a big schoolyard joke. I remember hearing that joke all the time. I remember that joke too, but like he tells it slowly. Very slowly. Even Ben jumped in to say how bad that joke is. All right, so Ben, let's get Ben in there. Ben the producer. Ben the producer.

Ben the producer. Ben the Ben. The Haas. Mr. Haas-itive. Yeah. Mr. Positive. The Poet Laureate The Tiebreaker The Peeper

Dirt Bike Benny Soak and Wet Benny The Heart Detective The Meat Lover We haven't wished you a hello fennel in a good period of time It's been a while

Let's do it Yeah I mean you are the fuckmaster Yeah You're not Professor Crispy No And you have graduated to certain titles

over the course of different miniseries such as Kylo Ben Producer Ben Kenobi Ben Night Shyamalan Ben Say Say Ben-y-thing, Ailey Ben's with the dollar sign, Warhaz, Ben 19, The Fennel Maker, Purdue Urbane, and

also, um, oh, this is the one! Hmm? Well, whether or not we're doing a bonus episode. He's Robo-Haz, I guess, right? I guess so. But we don't usually name him within the miniseries. I don't know. Yeah, whatever. We're throwing out options. I'm thinking about stuff. Have you ever covered

that when you do that, Ben just sits with his hand on his forehead, like as though you're just jabbing him? No. Good to get that on the record. I'm glad that you pointed that out. Throughout the entire duration of that, you just... Because the whole time so far you're kind of engaged, you're watching, you're... As soon as that happens, your

eyes close and your hand touches your temple well especially because I do it when Ben's getting ready to actually say something so I'm stopping him from making a point

that he wants to make he needed to point out how bad that Justice League joke was which is more relevant now than ever that's like the most bottom of the barrel

post like Crimson Peak Tarantino like script polish kind of joke where it's like you know what this movie needs is like 60 seconds of lewd pop culture that's what it is it's a guy who thinks he's Tarantino who's polish kind of joke where it's like, you know what this movie needs is like 60 seconds of lewd pop culture.

That's what it is. It's a guy who thinks he's Tarantino who's like, Oh, I'm going to have a whole Superman walk and talk scene. It's, it's the mall rats, kryptonite condom. It's unbelievable.

We were talking about Kevin Bacon's character wearing like this long leather jacket. And the whole problem I had the whole time is they are trying so hard to make science seem cool. Well, we're also, you have to remember, we're post Ian Malcolm here. Sure.

And post the fly. Post David Brundle. All the Goldblum scientists are cool. That was Goldblum's whole thing was can I make scientists like rock stars? Seth Brundle?

David Brundle? Seth Brundle. You got it there. I played Taboo with my family over the Thanksgiving break, which at this point was a year ago. Humblebrag, yeah. I was teamedoo with my family over the Thanksgiving break, which at this point was a year ago. I was teamed up with my mom,

who is probably the worst Taboo player in North America. Because she just says the word by mistake every time? She's bad at both sides of it in every way. Here's another thing my mom does during Taboo. She gets a card and she goes, pass. But at that point, she's already taken up 10 seconds yeah yeah um but she got fly as a word fly and her clue for me was david cronenberg's first movie right and i just like put my head in my hands and said i know it's not what you think it is and my siblings were like that, that's the most Griffin moment of all time was like,

I don't know what you're trying to get me. Yeah. Stereo. But you, I was like, is it scanners? Is it rabbit? Couldn't you think of what her idea of his first movie would be?

I went through all of them. And then I was like, which one was it? And she was like flying. I was like, that was his fucking sixth movie. Oh, like seventh.

Tenth. Yeah. Right. Are you kidding me? I went like fast company. Like I was going like deep cuts. She was like, no, his first one. I was like, it's not the one you think it is. Useenth? Yeah. Are you kidding me? I went like Fast Company. I was going like deep cuts. She was like, no, his first one.

I was like, it's not the one you think it is. Use a different clue. I was thinking about the fly a lot during this. Yes. He's a very fly, reckless guy

doing his experimentation on himself. Yeah. No, yes. He's in the tradition I already mentioned of like, here's this weird actor from 10 years ago

who's now the star of a movie. Right. And also he seems smart and cool and old so he can do whatever. And Elizabeth Shueu kind of has a gina davis she could be a gina davis yeah yeah it's very fly like minus the like overt disgustingness but still and also brolin is the same as the stand-in boyfriend in the fly who like i don't even remember who the actor is but like he's just some hunk of me brolin's a total baxter in this movie which is fascinating because it looks like that was going to be the rest of Brolin's career. Brolin in this movie is it's wild to think that he is now Thanos you know like

and like whatever like that he is like Hollywood's like big burly guy. His body is so disgusting in this movie when he has his shirt off it's huge and puffy and smooth. And he's got the glasses I think to try and make him look nerdy because otherwise we're just never going to buy that this guy is the third scientist. The guy who's like, I don't know, guys, if that's a good science experiment. Josh Brolin's one of those guys, and I'm going to say this as delicately as I can. He's one of those guys, and I think Hollywood has now figured out how to shoot him and how to dress him, but he looks like a six foot two man with dwarfism.

Oh, that's a good point. He's got very weird proportions. How tall do you think he is? I think he's like six foot one. Really? Yeah. He's got very short arms and a really big head and a stubby body. He's 5'10", which is perfectly, you know, for Hollywood, pretty tall. Yes. But I remember

seeing him do monologues on SNL and going like, he looks like he's five foot one. You you know he's the one who's absurdly rich just from online stock trading right like he made really he made like so much money doing that he's sort of like a jeremy renner that's amazing and like being in movies is just like kind of a joke to him or whatever imagine how much he's cleaning up on bitcoins and stuff oh my god he probably yeah thanos likes bitcoins he's very weird in this movie but the scientists are very sick those two are sexy brolin's kind of like a potato and then with glasses right then you have like the the rest of the bench you have kim dickens but she's been given this short haircut i think so that the audience will be like she's a real

scold you know what i mean like right because her haircut was more like, she's a real scold. You know what I mean? Right. Because her haircut was more like, oh, she's like crunchy because she wears no bra and loves animals. She wears no bra. She's a vet. So I guess she's like... She's very 2000 in this movie.

Oh my God. She's wearing giant baggy pants with like little tiny cardigans with nothing underneath. And the button top. I like adore Kim Dickens. I also find her like... I couldn't believe she was in this movie.

Incredibly appealing. Where was she between this and Gone Girl so I mean because this would have seemed like a great break for someone getting in a Hollywood movie

she's like the fifth character take your top off for Verhoeven there's you know worse ways to the top exactly and then when I saw her in Gone Girl

I was like who is this actress she's great she mostly goes to TV well no before then she's on Deadwood and everyone who was on Deadwood then went to Lost because Damon Lindelof she's on Deadwood and everyone who was on Deadwood then went to Lost

because Damon Lindelof was obsessed with Deadwood and when Deadwood got like kind of untimely cancelled he like started just literally writing parts for everyone

in Deadwood and so there's like season three four of Lost it's like it practically is just like the Deadwood guest star cavalcade

they were in the tail section Paul Malcolmson you know Kim Dickens welcome them all you know and

but who was she on Lost she was Sawyer's were in the tail section? Paula Malcolmson. You know, Kim Dickens, welcome them all. You know, and, but. Who was she on Lost? She was Sawyer's. Yeah, she was Sawyer's recurring mark and the mother of his child Clementine.

But so. She was in The Blind Side too, right? I want to start at the beginning because we were talking about Palmetto. Yeah.

Her debut was in Alan taylor's palookaville which is a 1995 movie william forsyth vincent gallo lisa gay hamilton like it's like where we're just like sex just like who francis mcdormand is in that movie yeah uh and then you know i think she's sort of a note you know she was in zero effect remember that oh yeah sort of the love interest in that she's in mercury rising which we have invoked a weird about you just talked about that yeah i listened to yeah i talked about how badly i wanted to see it because it was about a weird kid yeah and then this year she's in hollow man and the gift i think she has a small role in the gift uh and then she's in house of sand and fog which i believe she's like

Then she's in House of Sand and Fog, which I believe she's like the, like, you know, the. I remember her in that. What was Ben doing? He sent me a hilarious note. I'm never going to do what he asked me to do. But no, she moved to TV. Like Deadwood, Lost. She was in 12 Miles of Bad Road.

What's that? The HBO show with Lily Tomlinlin that was filmed but never aired i've always been obsessed with that yeah yeah they shot a full season of that and then she's in treme which is i feel like when people really take her seriously and then she's the best part of that show and then that's when she sort of loops back around and she's in gone girl and yeah you know the great miss peregrine's home for beautiful i mean peculiar children she's really she's great but she's pretty good in this movie It's a shame that like Her most memorable scene

Is having her bosom Squeezed by an invisible hand The boob grab scene Is just a A feat Of visual effects Where you are kind of like How did they do this

Yeah It's so upsetting Dude Invisible acting Fucking rules You're just into Invisible acting I think it's great

You mean being the invisible one Or being acting against Someone who's meant To be? I think it's great. You mean being the invisible one or being acting against someone who's meant to be invisible? I think it's like for the actor, it's the best kind of performing. For them, right? And for us. Would you say that the hour and 50 minutes we were waiting for Griffin, he might actually have already been here? Thank you. Oh my god.

Wait. That's what I'm going to do in this MuchBallyHood audition as well, a show of two hours late. Is it the whole time he was just in here naked, invisible, waiting to see what we would say about him. Because we think we're alone, but were we?

Yeah, he was just standing there naked. I was actually early. You guys don't realize that. That's what happened. Yeah. Okay, David, I got to bring this up. I got to talk about this. You're going to get upset,

but I got to talk about this. Classic Griff pitch? This week we're sponsored by Audible. Oh, yeah. That's right. Ooh, what a twist. Ooh, guy talk about this. Classic Griff pitch. This week we're sponsored by Audible. Oh, yeah. That's right. Ooh, what a twist. Ooh, an Audible pitch. Yes.

Yes. We are sponsored by Audible. Here's the thing. You can listen to us gab about, jaw about in your ears. That's right. And you'll get a lot dumber. Mm-hmm. But you know what makes you smarter?

Books. Books are good. You got to get book learned. But I never have the time for books if you're listening to this very podcast right now you have the time for books that's true i could listen to the book this is a two-sided ad i'm telling you simultaneously to start listening to audiobooks through audible and to stop listening to our podcast uh you can get the audible app yeah you can uh find clips you can You can navigate through chapters. You can sync it with your Kindle and go back and forth.

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you can listen to a book yeah and I have one in mind personally because here's the thing yeah you're thinking

okay look I'm a neophyte. I only do one thing. It's listen to a blank check. I've never seen a movie. I've never read a book. Where would I start? The only thing I know is blank check.

Well, maybe you want to read or listen to a book by a blank check guest. Duh. Like Richard Lawson. Maybe you've heard of him. Who just wrote a book called all we can do is wait but more famously just joined the five timers club on blank check uh very good point yeah so if you go to audible.com slash check and you browse the unmatched selection of audiobooks uh you can download a title for free and start listening it's a book i just ordered it

i'm excited to rip into it it's's a coming of age novel. Yes. It's narrated by Holly Lineman. I got the hardback. I got lower back problems like crazy. I'm walking around. This thing's in my backpack. It's clunking around. Well, instead, just go to audible.com slash check, or you just text check to 500-500. Right.

And you can get a free 30-day subscription. But then also buy a hardcover and just leave it in your apartment to help out Richard. 30-day trial membership. He's a mensch and we should support him. So go to audible.com slash check or text check to 500-500 to get started. All we can do is wait? No! All we can do is

sign up for a trial membership at Audible! That's right. That's all we can do! Want to go higher? That's all we can do! Now to go higher? That's all we can do. Now about the Holloman. Oh, God. To round out the ensemble, we got Greg Grunberg,

a.k.a. Fat Keanu Reeves. Sure. Joey Slotnick. Joey Slotnick. Now this is where my thing comes in. Oh, here we go. I need help with this

because this is important to me and this is a big part of why I was thinking about this movie a lot when it came out do you remember and if not someone in your fandom a blankie has to provide this do you remember how much Craig Kilborn

made Joey Slotnick a running gag forever Slotnick was like his Abe Vigoda 100% I don't know was Slotnick a part his Abe Vigoda yes why 100% I don't know was Slotnick a part of the gag no he was always there

oh okay okay okay Joey Slotnick was always on Craig Kilbourne as himself because Craig Kilbourne seemed to have some relationship with Jonathan Silverman okay they seemed to be friends

okay so he was in the single guy orbit sure and therefore he was always we're just staying right in 1995 we're just never leaving so he was part of the SGU he was all

yes yeah well you got Ming Na you got Ernest Borgnine they weren't made fun of by Kilborn but he was deep into the single guy somehow

and Slotnick was always the butt of some running joke on Kilborn that I can neither remember nor find online I cannot remember nor find it

oh I see so you remember this happening but you don't have evidence of it leading up to the release of Hollow Man, Kilborn was always talking about Slotnick, and Slotnick must have been on five or six times. He would pop into the beginning.

He would be a cutaway. So you were watching Kilborn every night. Every night, which is another reason I knew this movie came out in the summer, because I was watching Kilborn every night. So this is Kilborn post-Daily Show, or is this when he's late night? I could watch Letterman, then watch Kilborn post Daily Show or is this late night after

Letterman? This is when he's late night. I could watch Letterman then watch Kilborn. He gets late night 99 I think.

So this is early Kilborn late night. And the way he wants to make his mark on late night is by having some running gag with Slotnick that I

barely remember but remember so vividly as happening. So when I had the opportunity to, because I was not invited to be here, I asked to be here.

It was because i need to just see if anyone else remembers how or why kilbourne was always talking about joey slotnick to the extent that when i saw this movie with my friends right and when he came on i said there's joey slotnick thinking that this would be funny yeah i thought everyone knew that they were in on the words joey slotnick could get a laugh he was like snakes on a plane yes truly and i can't remember what this was or why but someone else has to be able to there's no proof i googled it for a little bit yeah you like couldn't find anything there's no clips of like oh 10 minute compilation of kilbourne slotnick you know one problem i think that you have

is that uh i think cbs has just erased craig gilborn from the internet like they just don't want to acknowledge that that ever happened yeah well the other thing that i know connects this is that i believe also summer 2000 maybe 2001 2001 when john favreau's maid came out sure his directorial john silverman is in that movie very briefly okay and that was also a big running kill born thing he kept every time favreau or vince faul would be on the show he'd be like most important question why is jonathan silverman only in one scene of the movie oh my god so this is why this is Jonathan Silverman only in one scene of the movie oh my god so this is why

this is my real reason for being here today it's not that Paul Verhoeven is one of my favorite filmmakers and I wanted to re-examine his most unheralded film you've been waiting you've had like an alert

for when we're gonna cover a Slotnick yeah but there's something about this that I can't remember because then he's just like science dork number three

yeah like he's just the nerd who wears a sweater vest with a tie do you think yeah he has no role in this movie it's almost insulting it's unbelievable how many the whole before i remember like how does he even die he just gets killed like everyone else he just gets like stabbed through the chest yeah before i remembered that this movie just becomes like a slasher yeah i was like why are there so many people in this yeah a lot of people in it like what is it because there's him so now okay so my slotnik thing is planted i've let that out right so anyone who wants to get at alex ross perry about joey slotnik and craig kilbourne's relationship

just somewhere i'll look at their i'll look at your reddit and i'll try to figure out if anyone else is like i watch kilbourne i actually remember what you're what's your home mailing address can i send you a letter yeah yeah and what's your annual salary do you want my theory i got a i got a theory and i don't remember this bit, right? I was not a Kilbourn. You were too young for it. Oh, yeah, you weren't a Kilbourn. You're not Kilbourn again?

No. I would sneak, like, stay awake and watch Conan on my little, like, rabbit ear TV. I never dipped in the Kilbourn. But my bet is that those were, like, his drinking buddies. That his, like, pussy posse, if I may, at the time was like Silverman, Slotnick, like some weird group of like NBC, like Primetime, like hammocked in between friends. What a depressing. I'm mad about you sitcom guys. When they would like try and launch like Union Square out of Friends, right?

Like that run of failed sitcoms. Right. And it was like an inside joke. Veronica's Clos inside joke that he tried to make happen with the American public about him. Worked for me. Yeah. Made me super aware of Hollow Man and made me

you know, 17 years later be like, there was something about Slotnick. It's like a splinter in your mind. You can't like let it go. If it works for even one person, then it was worth it. Man, Slotnick's Wikipedia page is really depressing. Is it? Oh God. I mean, not that there's any, it just looks like, it just has very one person, then it was worth it. Of course, man. Slotinus' Wikipedia page is really depressing. Is it? Oh, God. I mean, not that there's any. It just looks like...

Oh, no. It just has very little effort put into it. His profile picture is him shaking hands with Steve Wozniak, who he looks nothing like, yet played in Pirates of Silicon Valley. But then just, like, I feel like his page, like,

it doesn't have... Like, look at this, like, sort of bizarre tableau. It doesn't have, like, links to the movies. It's just a list of movies. Yeah. Well, then it becomes just, like,

because it's some movies, like Twister, Pirates of Silicon Valley, right? And then it's just a list of movies yeah well then it becomes just like because it's some movies like twister pirates right and then it's just tv shows it's like alias csi boston legal you know like twister by the way is another cool scientist movie that's true that's true yeah yeah these scientists they drive cars they're like kind of fun normal down to earth people another apollo 13 turned lead in a cool scientist movie very true that's yeah that's right every Apollo because Gary Sinise uh got something too out of this right like he had to have something come on help me out here well he was in reindeer games not a cool scientist but what should I call it uh uh snake eyes he doesn't really scream scientist he screams more you know uh authority figure yeah he's he's your fed. Yeah, I mean, well, Snake Eyes, he's the villain.

So, did the cool hacker replace the cool scientist, right? I guess so. I feel like that becomes the next trope. The cool tech.

He's like, I'm a cool tech guy. Right. It's like the blade guy. Because then it becomes your scientists are the nerds again and then there's this guy

who's got kind of like frosted tips or something and he's got like a, you know, a mug full of pistachio nuts or something. is it Greg Grunberg who's always drinking a Big Gulp in this movie? Yes, yes, yes. So that's like his, and he always has like a you know a mug full of pistachio nuts or something wait is it greg grumberg who's always drinking a big gulp in this movie yes yes yes so that's like his kind

and he always has headphones around his head he's looking at porn he's looking at a perfect 10 magazine and like like has like a whole monologue he's sitting there muttering suck the nipples off those that's what he says something and you're like who's never once ever said that feels like someone being like verhoeven movies are gross and lurid and people talk about sex well we're going to have this character talk about nipples while he's looking at this perfect 10 at his job in a bunker where there's only like six people who have the access code. Right. Andrew W. Marlow is the writer of this movie. I'm sorry.

I just, I found confirmation on something I need to share. Joey Slotnick in 2009. Yeah. Did a stage production. Oh, no. This is already bad. I don't like this. At the Williamstown Theater Festival.

That's nice. That's fun. That's cool. Or no, I'm sorry. That was several years into making this happen. It started at Chicago of Animal Crackers, the Marx Brothers movie, which they tried to turn into a musical, I think in the hopes of going to Broadway. And Joey Slotnick played Groucho Marx.

He spent most of the last seven years touring around trying to become the stage version of Groucho Marx. That's his Kilmer Twain? Oh yeah, look at that. Flip your phone back around. Interesting. Yeah, there he is with the glasses

and the mustache. Yeah, he's trying to make Groucho happen. Well, there's something about Slotnick. There's definitely something about Slotnick. It connects this movie to a certain time in my life where I was very happy. Big summer. My friend got his driver's license. We saw a lot of movies. Mission Impossible 2 had just come out.

Sure. Other things that hopefully we'll be talking about eventually. But I feel like the kind of crew of scientists in this movie is very humorously diverse in their like, each one has a thing. In their types, yeah. Can I say one funny thing also? Of course. One thing about-

Say anything, Alex. This is something that I was thinking about constantly during this movie, is I, at one point I asked Jason Schwartzman, why have you never been in like a big Hollywood movie like this? Sure, yeah. Not like this, but like something. You told me this.

I told you this? No, tell me, I want to know. I said, why have you never- You've worked Hollywood movie like this? Sure. Not like this, but like something. You told me this. I told you this. No, tell me. I want to know. I said, why have you never- You've worked with Jason on multiple movies. Not to name drop, but in Cold Days, it's now playing at Metrograph and on iTunes and whatever. I said, how come you've never been in that kind of a movie? And he said, because everything I ever get sent to be in that movie is the guy who says,

but gentlemen, what if we weaponize it? And I thought, yeah, that is the kind of guy you would gentlemen, what if we weaponize it? And I thought, yeah, that is the kind of guy you would get asked to play in that movie. And this movie doesn't really have that exact guy,

but I can easily picture someone being like, you know who could be like dorky scientist number three? Grace Forsman would be so good for that. Who gets impaled on rebar with 40 minutes to go.

You told me that story as like a lesson. Not in a teaching way, but I was complaining to you about not wanting to play parts like that. And you were like, that's what Jason's always talking about, where he doesn't have any interest in showing up to be in a big movie to say, what if we weaponize it? Go to Vancouver for four months

to say that line? Right. If I want to do it, I want to have something to actually do. I feel like that's a good reason for him to have avoided this kind of being in the crew of scientists. Yes. Which is generally a good crew. I mean, they look good together. Bacon, also, we didn't talk about his house with his thing on the ceiling.

Oh, yeah. Wait, what thing on the ceiling? You should be working or whatever. Oh, yeah, right, right, right. It's similar to the Mulder pencils. It's like a real hot trend at this time of guys who sit at their desk and have crap on the ceiling above their desk they also have this video call which is so advanced it makes no sense yeah when he like calls them it's like hyper skype yeah it looks good it works well it works really well the point isn't like hot i guess in the world of having uh invisible serum skype had been taken

care of i guess this is set in the near future so So to start the plot, as Ben was bugging me to do. Hey, Ben. We're an hour in. Yeah, I think that's great. But I do feel like in the hour, there's not, it's all on the topic of Halloween.

The beginning of the movie for us to get into it. They're waiting. The beginning of the movie is he discovers invisibility or whatever. He like puts the right genes in the right place.

He's on his computer. I mean, the right molecules in the right places. He's looking out his window. He's peeping at Rona Mitra, and he's angry that she closed the blinds. How dare she? Yeah, he doesn't like that.

Yeah, sure. Have autonomy. He cracks the code. You know what else he's doing? He's eating a Twinkie. He's eating a Twinkie. He's eating a Twinkie. Is that his blender?

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does it like four more times. Junk food. There's a box of Twinkies next to his desk. Yeah. And later, not at home, at the lab, he has a whole case of Twinkies. Right.

He should, yeah, he should not be the sort of, he's very sort of fit. He's sinewy in this movie. He's sinewy. He's a sinewy guy. He always has been. Yeah. So, Holloman. Yeah.

So he, so they've invented, they cracked the case. What have they been doing before now? Just not making things invisible? Is that what's been happening down there? No, they've been making animals invisible. The thing they haven't figured out. They made like little animals invisible. They got the case. What have they been doing before now? Just not making things invisible? Is that what's been happening down there? No, they've been making animals invisible. They made little animals invisible. They got the gorilla. That's the first thing. That's the first time they do it. Incorrect.

The gorilla is already invisible. Right. That's the thing they've been struggling with. They've been making animals invisible, but their goal is they want to weaponize it. They want to give it to the military. Yeah, this is like a government contract or whatever. It's like the rebigulator, debigulator.

Right, but their Waterloo is, how do you get them back? Because you can't leave people invisible forever. They'll go crazy and grab boobs. Anyone playing Blank Check Bingo, he just said Waterloo. Yeah, thank you. Patina. Rosetta Stone. I have four phrases.

Yep. But, yes, he suddenly just kind of cracks it the movie doesn't really explain why you see the wire frame of molecules and he's like oh but what if I put a freaking electron over here I don't know who cares calls up Kim Dickens not Kim Dickens sorry Elizabeth Shue very excitedly

he sees in the background that there's a guy in her bed who's that? Who's that? None of your business. Pulls the covers over his head. He's flirting with her, but he's excited

because he just fucking figured it out. We got to get to the office. Do you think you can get in touch with Josh Brolin? Yeah, I think I can reach him. Ha, ha, ha, ha. End of video call. Because she's sleeping with him.

She's sleeping with Josh Brolin. Okay, so there's a secret. Who plays Dr. Matt Kensington, who is literally, that name is straight out of like a porn parody. Isn't it fascinating that- As is Sebastian Holloman.

Sebastian Kane. Sebastian Holloman. That's why when I was watching the movie, I just kept calling him Sebastian Holloman. Mr. Holloman. And then someone puts a space in between the two. Anyway, yeah. It just feels, you watch this movie and the zone that Brolin was in and continued to be in for another six years after this until 2007 when he has this crazy year.

And it's like, he was just going to go from being this kind of like fucking wet blanket guy and like mid budget, you know, mid level studio blockbusters to them being like the boss and comedies. And then the dad in movies, like he did not seem like someone who was primed to suddenly become a like substantial american actor that didn't seem like a shame either it wasn't like ah that guy could have been yeah

you're not mad that we're not getting to see him just a pro you know he doesn't seem like he deserves a bigger shot than this he just shows up and he does his part and then 2007 he suddenly becomes this like very interesting actor out of nowhere blows off of the character actor list to me he was the goonies guy right i mean there was nothing in between thrashing that's what he was to me right thrashing but then he does he's good in uh flirting with disaster uh super aggro yes he's funny in there yes yes yes but then he does he's in mimic he's a mimic he does a fucking what's it called into the blue the Paul Walker Jessica Alba movies that's 2005 that's much later

whoa that movie from 2005 yeah so here we go just shine this out and I mean you know I mean you know about his legal issues

to be kind yes which we probably shouldn't be because it's from 2000 Hollow Man right 2005

Melinda Melinda there's nothing in between what so he just stopped making things and this was it for him yeah in between those two is when he's uh diane lane calls the cops on him and then it like drops the charges you know and like it just becomes this sort of thing that was like you know in the papers and they're still together now right no they did get divorced they got back together for a while after much much. They got divorced in like 2013 or something.

And the other thing with her was Diane Lane was going through this real like upswing and it became like, oh, that's weird that Diane Lane's married to the guy from Goonies.

Yeah, right. He just became like a professional plus one because she was like getting nominated for Unfaithful and stuff and he was just like sitting next to her

at the Oscars every year. And like he also like as of this, like he wouldn't have been on talk shows. He wasn't promotable. He was not promotable. 0%.

He's like one notch above your Greg Grunberg. Is it Grunberg or Gundberg? Grunberg, I think. It's Grunberg. Snap Wexley himself? That's right. I mean, Grunberg was just J.J. Abrams' guy, right? Yes.

This was Josh Brolin's role in Hollywood at this point in time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was if you got Robert Downey Jr. and Robert Downey Jr.'s quote was a little bit lower than Kevin Bacon, you could get a bigger star for the Josh Brolin role. But if you spent the extra million or two on Bacon, it's like, Brolin we can get for like $250,000.

He's a pro. He'll show up. He'll do the job. Less than that. You know what I'm saying? He was that guy where it's like, we can slot him in if we got a bigger star for another role

just get Brolin to fill out the cast. So Brolin. Okay fine. So they're sleeping together. They're the three scientists. They're the three scientists. We're Brolin and the two scientists.

We're the two friends. They're the three scientists. Yeah. I forgot to mention Mary Randall who plays another lab tech. That's the entire crew. Correct.

And then William Devane plays like a congressman or whatever. I was thinking general. Right? Whatever the fuck it is. He's at the Pentagon. You're William Devane plays like a congressman or whatever. I think a general, right? Whatever the fuck he is. You're right. This is one of the only movies that's shot in front of the Pentagon for some reason. Like the Pentagon allowed for just like one Steadicam shot as they leave and give Bacon the business for lying to the government.

And he's like, I can do what I want. Bacon does some serious movie star strutting in that shot. But you know what's also interesting is that he's wearing the Regis Philbin who wants to be a millionaire collection in that scene. It's like the shiniest purple shirt and exactly the same color tie I've ever seen outside of Regis.

Correct. It's unbelievable. And not only is he dressed that way in the Pentagon, in the next scene he has his jacket off and he's still wearing the purple shirt and tie. Yes, it's insane. So he cracks the code, Shu comes over, Shu comes over?

Yeah. You mean from the funnies? The bird? The movie puts on a shoe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Elizabeth's shoe. No, but there's this thing where you see Josh Brolin in the trenches with the animals who Kim Dickens is very protective of. He's got his weird heat vision goggles because that's the only way they can see the invisible

creatures. Yeah, those goggles are some 2000 tech right there. They're very Verhoeven. It's so good. Those are also just like post-Jurassic Park. It's still the same thing. It's the same aesthetic playground. Have you seen Wolfen? Do you like Wolfen, Ben? I've never seen Wolfen. Never seen Wolfen? No. What's Wolfen?

Wolfen, it's a werewolf movie with Albert Finney. And Gregory Hines. What? And it's like the first Steadicam movie that Steadicam was invented for. It's like 83. 81. I don't fucking love this movie. And all the Wolfen POV stuff is night vision infrared Steadicam.

That's hell. And it's just low to the ground, endless. And at the time though steady cam you've no idea how they're doing this shot yeah even still the movie's incredible but all this stuff looks like wolfen when they're looking at the animals uh i do albert finney and then you can't understand a word he's saying he seems so drunk that sounds great i love it when albert finney oh my god like when he shows up at the end of oceans 12 yeah and he clearly is just drunk and they both fingered him. Anyway.

Very good movie. Pre-Dark Universe of the 90s. Sure. So I was shocked to realize this movie's two hours long. Yeah. Because it barely has a plot. But I think it's because every injection scene

is like incredibly long and drawn out. It's a real showcase. Which in a way that I like. Right. Because it's fun with the first The Gorilla. Right.

Where you see the gorilla's body like slowly rebuild. And let's say there's a little tip of the cap when Brolin's trying to first the gorilla where you see the gorilla's body slowly rebuild. Let's say there's a little tip of the cap when Brolin's trying to feed the gorilla that it attacks him and then they have this little dick measuring contest of trying to capture and sedate the gorilla first. But it kind of gets this thing that perhaps there are the unexpected

side effects of rage. Aggression. Aggression. It makes you monstrous. All the other animals in the movie were real animals and the gorilla was a person in a gorilla suit. Very clearly. It's not a realistic looking gorilla. So according to the IMDb trivia, what they had to do for the gorilla in order to get it, because they used real heat vision cameras.

They got some camera where they filmed it. That's not like a process thing. So for the gorilla shots, right up until they called action, so for the gorilla shots right up until they called action they had like 20 PAs with hair

dryers who were just heating up the gorilla suit so that it would show up on the camera yeah yeah do you think like just having fun

looking at some yes or no of the invisibility sequences does this movie have good special effects or bad special effects does yes or no

I think yes I think it has good special effects I think the only thing this movie... You can see this seems more than I remember but I don't really care.

I think the only thing that feels notably creepy to me is the visible man stuff. When it's him with the muscles. Sure. That looks pretty flubbery. I just dig it.

I just think that this... But the rest of it I think is really good. This is such an era of some of the worst CG. Yes, of course. This is like the Scorpion King shot that everyone always...

And I just can't believe how not terrible this looks considering it's the same time as most of the worst CG. This is like the Scorpion King shot that everyone always... And I just can't believe how not terrible this looks, considering it's the same time as most of the worst computer effects of our lifetime. And the other thing was, he talked about how he's a very extensive storyboarder. You know, there's a real intentionality and design to everything. Yeah, he said this entire movie was storyboarded, like to the T.

Verhoeven is a guy who plans everything out meticulously in advance and understands the limitations of the technology and how to work around them, but also how to push them. And he said that he worked really hard to have as many camera movements as he could in the special effects big showcase scenes because he wanted to integrate it more. That the mind processes it as being real if in a shot with a CGI skeleton man you also have you know a tracking move or whatever it is which I think is really smart but also makes his job a lot more complicated but he committed to that and said like I had to

know every shot in advance because if I changed a shot on the day it would add $300,000 so we shot everything exactly the way I storyboarded it but I think especially when you look at that the effects are really fucking good and certainly it's simple but when he has the rubber mask and are really fucking good. And certainly like it's simple, but when he has the rubber mask

and you can see through the back of it, it's the fucking best thing ever. It's also like all the effects make sense. They're not pointless, but you're right. All those sequences are long. Yes, incredibly long. But then he's just invisible.

Then Bacon's just invisible. Well, this is the thing. So yeah, how much Bacon do you think we got? Like 15, 20 minutes? I think like 30. Because you have the gorilla, you have him testifying. Maybe 30. You have a lot of have him testifying maybe 30 you have

a lot of him flirting and the everyone in the office being gross yeah he's gross to everyone i'd be into that everyone knows he's a bad guy everyone knows everyone's like i wouldn't want to bought whatever with him or like no he's an asshole everyone knows that he's just kind of an eccentric jackass he has that line about like... He's a toxic person. Being with him is a lot less interesting than you think it is. Right. And then he turns invisible because he decides, fuck them, we're just going to do this on me. He wants to hold it back from the military because he's worried they'll take it away from him.

So he goes, we need to get this 100% cracked by ourselves before we hand it over. And then they'll shut it all down. Not that they'll be like, because it is theirs. But he says, what do they do with us once they have it? Right. So let's make me the guinea pig, which everyone is skittish about. This is the best sequence

of the movie probably. Him turning invisible? Yeah. It's just phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. It held up for me. Yeah.

I feel like, what's the name of that like tiny horizontal special effects magazine that they still publish? Oh, yes. Yes. I feel like this was

on the cover of, it was a still from this exact sequence. This movie lost best visual effects to Gladiator. And I remember at the time, the pitch on Gladiator was like, you won't believe it. Like, they made ancient Rome look real again. And now you watch Gladiator

and the visual effects in that are a little rough. Well, you know, the other thing with Gladiator that I think got it the win was the Oliver Reed thing. Which is actually kind of impressive. Impressive, time it was so unprecedented as impressive as making bacon invisible i don't think so i mean this should have won but i did forget because like i was reading interview recently uh with ridley scott now long ago about all the money in the world where he was like this is fucking just you know disney shit i don't give a shit christopher

plumber he's here he's alive. He's alive. Oliver Reed died. Right. Like, three days in or whatever. You know, like, I had to build an entire performance out of nothing.

Yeah. And Christopher Plummer, he's like, this is easy. Imagine what Ridley could have done with an Invisible Man movie. Oh, he'd have fun.

He's available for Dark Universe. Yeah. Sure. Give him the whole Dark Universe. Yeah, he's only booked five movies to direct next year, so we could probably slot one of them in there.

By the time we're recording this, Christopher Plummer has probably won the Oscar, right? Yeah. For Best Picture. That Golden Globe nomination, where you just know that they didn't screen the movie. They just threw a party for the Hollywood Foreign Press. Ridley Scott comes out, and he's like,

you won't believe it. Christopher Plummer, J. Paul Getty. It's great. Anyway, nice to see all of you and they're like oh yes we give him a vote director, actress, supporting actor god that he got a director nomination

and not a picture nomination is so funny to me with 10 nominees I know insane are you excited for all the money in the world Alex? no I'm not I'll watch if I get a script by the time this comes out I will have not seen it unless I get sent to my house. I'm so pumped to see it. I mean, I guess I'm mildly curious.

I'm like not curious and I love Ridley Scott except for the fucking Plummer. I mean, I like a kidnapping movie. I like a good kidnapping movie. Yeah, that's what I love. Me too. The first trailer was like

a lot tonier and then the re-edited Christopher Plummer trailer now has an instrumental version of Kanye West's Power and makes it look like a CIA thriller yeah yeah

I'll say wait it's Michelle Williams and Mark Wahlberg I'll say it I like it yeah exactly yeah it's uh

yeah whatever I'm sure it's fine I'm sure it's not as impressive as making that rubber mask it's won best picture at this point

but I do Hollow Man has Hollow Man won best picture in 2018 Hollow Man should have won best visual effects for this sequence alone. But also,

I think what I really love are all the like silhouetted bacon stuff later. It's so good. The pool and the mist. It just seems like, I feel like by this point in the movie,

now we're like halfway through the movie. Yeah, practically. He's invisible and he's squeezed her breasts. He's invisible and he like has a sandwich and then he decides to grab Kim Dickens' boob. And then they're basically, it's like really immediate. He's invisible and he like has a sandwich and then he decides to grab

Kim Dickens' boob. And then they're basically It's like really immediate. Then right away they're like good now it's been three days let's reverse him and it doesn't work. But I feel like

this gets to the point of like we love Invisible Man. Like this is a cool idea. Yeah. Right. There's no story in that because it's like what do you

this movie to me was like there's nothing you can do with that. He's invisible. Yes. This movie is just into interested in the power trip element of it. What's your pitch? You need another invisible man.

Invisible man. Oh, sure. Invisible man and woman. You need two invisible people. There's Hollow Man 2, the direct-to-video sequel, which is briefly titled Hollow Man. I believe it was that idea. Starring Peter Facinelli and Christian Slater. Yes.

I just feel like at this point in the movie like he's invisible and he's freaking out and it's obviously affecting his brain but then like this just points out that there's really nothing you can do with an invisible man

unless he joins the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as I teach to you in my email. But he's like he's like a Hulk like he works well as like part of a team

but he has no actual journey of his own that's like gonna sustain this which is why it just becomes like the killers inside the house. That's what's sustain this, which is why it just becomes the killer's inside the house. That's what's weird about this movie and why it sort of makes sense that Elizabeth Shue is first billed, aside from the fact that she also signed on first.

And I think there's a thing where... She might have gotten paid more. She might have gotten paid more. And if you sign on to a movie first, sometimes you work that into your contract where even if they get a bigger star, they're kind of fucked because we already promised someone first billing. But I think this movie only kind of fucked because we already promised someone first billing you know but I think

this movie only kind of makes her the protagonist halfway through the first half of the movie they make Kevin Bacon the really unlikable protagonist

you know the anti-hero and then there's a point where it's like well now he just has to become the villain because we can't you know

follow this guy and his journey more there's nowhere else to go he's just become a monster he sneaks out and like immediately rapes his neighbor. He's a monster right away.

Second thought is, yeah, you're right that, of course, at first he is confronted with the news, we can't turn you visible. So I guess that's

eating away at him. Yeah. Then they put the latex mask on him. His eyelids are transparent. The light hurts him so much. I say that a couple times. Yeah. You know what's another thing

similar to how Grunberg is holding up the Perfect 10 magazine and saying what he wants to do to the woman? Right. Is the part earlier when Sebastian's looking out the window at his neighbor who takes off her clothes and she closes her blinds and he goes, damn it.

Yeah. Like he's really. He's a jerk. He's on the line that he wants to see that. So you know. You know he's. He's getting it. You know right away.

He sucks from the get go, which I like. And this movie is, I mean, it's that line where it's like what you would do if you didn't have to look at yourself in the mirror, you know? I feel like that, for him, he splashes his face in the mirror, which is very interesting. I have written down. That's in the trailer. It's at 56 minutes. Yeah. Which is like the first time where he says, like, what am I doing?

Right. He's like, it's like suddenly this guy realizes he's up to no good. Because that's after he attacks Ronimitra, right? Yeah. When he splashed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also wrote down what would happen if he ate a not invisible Twinkie. Well,

why don't they ever do that? Yeah. Why he never eats when he's invisible? Because it would be so much fun to watch the digestion. Silly effect. Exactly.

Like, do we see him like pee? Like, no. He throws up. He does throw up and it's all invisible. Right. You see it make the imprint in the toilet water,

but there's nothing actually coming out you see like the ripples um interesting you know why he's perfect casting for this movie aside from everything else we've we've already said yeah he is such a specific looking guy he is a even when you only see his body he's got such a specific body right and he's shown it off so much in movies that you like recognize it but b his face is so fucking unique that even if it's just like water being splashed on the side

you're like that's Kevin Bacon's nose and he has a great voice he has a really distinct voice all of it nothing sounds like Kevin Bacon but if you have the character just in silhouette

affected by smoke or whatever it doesn't look like just some generic CGI model it always looks like Kevin Bacon it's recognizable

like Kevin Bacon the point of the second half of this movie is how many things can you put an invisible man in that you can sort of see right

a pool a smoky corridor fire extinguisher mist smoke from a it's just how many things can you sort of see something through

so when they were filming this movie they thought originally that he wasn't going to have to be on set they would just have like a teacup on a

string and then Verhoeven did a lot of test footage and he realized that a the performances were kind of unmoored when there wasn't a person there right in the room right so they would shoot everything two times once with him in there once with him without um for performance right but also anytime he's interacting with the elements they needed him there in real time on the set So they would have to paint his entire body one color. Yes, green, blue, or black.

Right, including contact lenses that were fully that color, face paint, all of that. He also says that the latex mask smelled like rotten eggs, and he had to wear it a lot. And it has no nose holes. Did that bother you guys? I'm sure it bothers me. It's so distinct.

And later when he goes out, he cuts nose holes in it. They appear at like the hour 40 mark. Which is probably demand for him. Because they mostly shot this movie chronologically. They shot this movie in sequence. Yes. But there's so much of it with no, there's no nose holes for almost all of them. He probably at a certain point was like, I'm quitting unless you cut those fucking nose

holes in. But each of the colors they painted him corresponded to a different element where they had to come up with a code where it's like, if he's interacting with liquids, he's black for the day. Right. If he's interacting with gases, he's, you know. Maybe the nose holes weren't there because you couldn't put the color inside his nostrils. Very possible. They do show up, as you say.

Yeah. He looks. Maybe they just put a little dab of blue on there. He looks like Michael Myers-y. Yes. Right? Like when he's got. I just think that's such a good look, the latex mask.

It is the perfect modern version of the bandages and the glasses. 100%. Yes, exactly. And I love how goopy it is in the back. Anytime you're seeing it from behind, it's really imperfect. It's so gross. And he does have such a weird face. He's got that Kevin Bacon nose, so it is distinctive. It doesn't just look like a generic dude. No, it looks like Kevin Bacon's face. Pouring that stuff on, that's

so cool looking. Amazing. When you pour the rubber on. All that stuff is great. And even just like, it's simple effects, but just when they're testing him after the failed conversion back into the land of being a solid man rather than a hollow man. And it's all the little,

what do you call them? Yeah, like the little heart rate monitor. The heart rate monitor things on him. When you see them all snapping off as he walks away, like that shit is all

just really fucking effective for me. It's fun. I wrote down around this time uh when greg rumber is looking at the magazine he started to remind me of ken marino and what hot american summer just like some doofus who's talking about babes right who's never seen a woman naked and the secret supply this movie is that he's a virgin yes and then he's talking to kevin bacon i wrote down that he says uh you should be out there messing with people. Yeah. That's his first.

Yeah. He says this, and this is after Kevin Bacon has attacked Ronan Mitra too, which who to just to get on the record. I don't know if she has a line in the movie apart from like, hello. And like, is not a character. And we do not revisit her after he attacked.

It was a deleted scene. Oh, is there, there's an extended of like the actual after effect of a woman being sexually violated by an invisible person. Right. So it's just like, oh is there there's an extended of uh like the actual after effect of a woman being sexually violated by an invisible person so it's just like it's like a quick shot of her like curled up in the fetal position right crying on the bed which is kind of verhovany in a way he said it's like deeply amoral and strange yes they test screened it and people like ripped their chairs out yeah

yeah like no one wanted to see that right which i mean sure but also you did put that in 45 minutes into the movie bali yeah and again i mean like i was gonna say this movie's written by andrew w marlow who just seems like to me like andrew wm awm you know just the epitome of like uh a broey douchey guy in the room because his credits are air force one uh-huh what if all right the president yeah and then end of days yeah which is a terrible movie and then Hollow Man and then he created Castle right

so this guy has more money than you'll ever see in your life he literally just does things that I couldn't even imagine doing with his incredible amounts

of money he has like a spitfire but Gary Scott Thompson was the what if guy on this right he was the the original idea and then Marlo sort of

correct they both have a story credit. Gary Scott Thompson. I mean, uh, the fast and furious. Yeah. He,

this is his, basically his earliest, uh, like pitch that hits apart from K nine one, one, which I believe is a sequel to K nine. Right. Um,

but remember that there's K nine. Yes. That came out in 1989 yeah then in 1999 finally the public's demand for a sequel was satisfied with k911 which is then followed by canine colon team the widow maker not k9112 nine one one two that's just the zip code to be clear Jim Belushi is in all three films like it's not yeah yeah yeah they signed to a third picture

deal from the get-go this movie has like real Hollywood like workhorse writer pedigree yes that's what I'm saying like I really don't think that Verhoeven was the one who came in and was like get the invisible man must be a rapist like it's like no this was a pitch that was made,

you know, for $100 million. I'm sure he did. Do you feel like, yeah, there was like that, he was kind of, like those Nordics

in Hollywood. There was a lot of them and they all kind of had their own excesses that they were fascinated with. Wait, who else are you thinking of?

Well, like, Jan de Bont and Rennie Harlan and, there's gotta be at least one or two others, but, like,

a lot of these Danes and Nords and Swedes coming to Hollywood and kind of making these, like, excessively well-crafted Wolfgang Peterson.

Wolfgang Peterson. Obviously not Nordic, but European. Same, same, same. But he, like, I mean, I don't think Verhoeven's capable of making a film

as uninteresting as the least interesting movies that those guys made. Right. He just has too much going on. But he also sort of at this point said, oh, I think I'm starting to tip into that territory. I need to get the fuck away from here.

Yeah, he runs away, whereas Randy Harlan's like, no, no, no, I can make the Exorcist prequel. Right. There's like a weird level of self-awareness for Verhoeven, considering that he's also like a weird lunaticatic who's like what what am i doing why is it weird you know sure and he's a jesus scholar in the seminarian right it's right so there is some sort of moment of self-awareness yeah not much jesus stuff in this that's the thing like this movie just has no allegory like robocop allegory right total recall like a very metaphysical look at like humanity and what your brain is

yeah showgirls you know of course it's about so much right this movie's just not about anything

it's like except if you're an invisible man you would be awful isn't it sort of like power corrupts like a little it has one idea

but I also think it's not presenting that movie as a thesis right it's one of the ideas to think about and I

once again like you know I think endings of movies are very important because the ending is like, this is what it was about. Not just what note you end on, but like putting a frame around a thing. And the fact that this movie just stops. No, it's just they kill him in the lab. They blow up the lab. Right. It's like, oh, this movie has nothing to say. They don't even blow up the lab in a fun way.

I was really looking forward to it. Yeah. Go to hell. It's weird like credits like to even like jump from the point where he's like not going to be turned visible again yeah to the end of the movie is like i don't remember the only thing i remember there is the blood all over the floor and the amount of blood in the kim dick so much like they're really clever sequences like each kill is kind of neat right yeah that's the thing so yeah let's just go through the kills they're also stacked up like it's the moment where you realize oh that's why there's that many people in the lab this is gonna slash your phone where they're knocking them off one by

one it's like four of them died within eight minutes of each other right so here's how it goes a more conventional movie would have had him turn bad 15 minutes in and made the whole movie because i want to get alex out of here in some semblance i know i know i know don't worry about me i know i know but i do I'm here to talk Holloman. We've barely scratched the surface of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen yet. And Van Helsing. We do have to talk LSU. Which the Captain Nemo's submarine sequence

and that is the Nautilus, man. Tom Sawyer's on the Nautilus. What kind of world is this? Tom Sawyer. Dorian Gray. The characters they added into the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

like what guy was like I got it I got it I got it guys Dorian Gray Dorian Gray's not in the comic? no and they were clearly like are you sure?

I'm almost certain here I'm gonna look it up I think that's correct I mean Tom Sawyer definitely was added Tom Sawyer was the obvious Nemo, Mina Harker

Quarterman Invisible Man and Hyde right? oh that's the comic the comic is is those yeah Mina Harker, Quarterman, Invisible Man, and Hyde, right? Oh, I'd ask the comic, yeah. The comic is those, yeah. Mena Harker, Quarterman, Nemo, Hyde, The Invisible Man, and that's it. I thought Dorian Gray was in the comic.

No, they add him because I think they were just like scanning through public domain. And they were like, who can, what's a name, right? Because like Dorian Gray, what's he supposed to do? Like kill them with like a bon mot or whatever? He's ageless, sure. Right. I mean, like, you know, it's he supposed to do? Like kill them with a bon mo? He's ageless, sure. But it's not really like a power. They try to make it that he's got Wolverine healing powers. I think what they try to do in the movie is,

oh, because he doesn't age, that also means that any damage is immediately healed. And then Jekyll and Hyde also, are they in? They're not in the comic either. Really? No, I think Hyde's in the comic. That has to not in the comic either really no I think Hyde's in the comic that has to be in the comic you're right they are sorry take it back

isn't it weird that a couple years later there was another invisible man on screens yeah and this like wasn't a bomb oh you mean in LXG oh yeah what else would I be talking about Jason Fleming no he's Hyde oh right you're not gonna have the name no I am gonna have it ready

ready ready fuck you Tony Coran Tony Coran well done thank you tell me anything about him

I don't remember anything I just remember he's great in that movie is he better than Kevin Bacon no and is he better than Johnny Depp will be

in the Dark Universe that movie is never getting me now now you don't know by the time this podcast comes out, there could have been a huge Johnny Depp Invisible Man announcement.

Look, the Dark Universe is going really well despite some setbacks. Obviously, Charles Manson was supposed to play the Wolfman. Charles Manson. They're getting top stars. That ClickHole article. Perfect public reputation. Did I show you the one where it's like, uh-oh, is Louis C.K.'s movie about Matt Lauer in trouble or whatever

Harvey Weinstein's Matt Lauer biopic starring Louis C.K. this is to borrow a frequent joke of yours this is being recorded in September

the dark universe is doing great and by the time this airs the dark universe will be doing better and Trump's been elected double president and greatest showman

won best picture greatest showman won best picture Trump's been elected greatest showman you're gonna read the order of the kills uh i will i i'm gonna do that in one second but lxg i just want to say that's connery's last movie right oh yeah except for the animated movie or whatever yeah right wild billy and that was a movie where literally like connery like on set

was like you're a hawk steven norrington i'm gonna do this myself right he like directed the movie well himself the other thing was that Connery had turned down like five movies that became huge because he was like, I don't get this shit. So he turned down

Morpheus and the Matrix. Right. He turned down fucking Gandalf. Right. But then he was taking the Avengers and Entrapment. Like he was,

and Finding Forrester. Like he took all the wrong roles. Right. But he was like, I guess these sci-fi films, I don't get them, but I should do one. So he did LXG because he was like, I guess she's sci-fi films. I don't get them, but I should do one. He did LXG because he was like,

the last three times I passed, I was open, boy. There's another big one I'm forgetting that he turned down. He did that and after that didn't turn out well, he's like, fuck it. I don't get anything. He was a good quarter, man. I remember seeing two things in the trailer. The game is on and that was naughty.

The game is on? Me and my friends used to say that was naughty. The game is on. Yeah, that was naughty. Yeah, me and my friends used to say that was naughty to each other. The game is on, I say all the time still. Every day we would say that was naughty to each other. I saw... Eyes open, boy. LXG opening day, my friends wanted to go see Pirates of the Caribbean

because they both opened on the same weekend. Great weekend. At the moment, it was a question like, which one's going to do well? Because they both looked a little dodgy. They both came from weird backgrounds. And we got sold out of Pirates, so went to see LXG, which I was pumping my fists about. And the audience was so... They were so clearly in the mood to see Pirates of the Caribbean and had to settle for this

that they just transferred their enthusiasm over to it. And Connery's entrance in LXG got an applause break from the audience. Isn't it weird that there was that time, as I already, you know, LXG and Van Helsing, this, other things, where it was just like, this is what people wanted, and then it kind of became Underworld, which there's inexplicably a million of.

Yeah, there's a whole franchise. Right, but then that becomes a very small, budget-conscious franchise. But regardless, the appetite for this sort of revisionist things gothic 100 year old

yes HG Wells characters yeah time machine that came out like a year after this if LXG hadn't been made could you

imagine the fucking bidding war for it now oh my god people would be going crazy that is totally true

yeah LXG could also be in the dark universe 100% they could redo it most of them are in the dark universe I think they already threatened to redo it but doesn't more have some kind of power he's like right as a tv show oh it's as a tv show that's actually i

believe you're right i think that might actually even be in the works like that's probably in production right now like jason patrick or something uh more doesn't have veto power uh maybe not okay um so the kills are uh-huh he will for he sees he discovers shu and brolin going in right boy he's furious that guy there's also that nightmare sequence she has where he's undressing her and then it's it's just a nightmare that feels like a studio note to get elizabeth's shoes closed almost all the way right yeah exactly but there's that moment before that where he puts her up against the wall in the lab yeah and tries to seduce her don't you want to do one last test before you turn me visible?

That's even before he knows he's doing it. She has a good line. Wait, what? She has a good comeback to that. Something like you were never really there anyway. Yes, that's it. And you're like, damn. And then so he kills Devane first.

And there's also the ripping off of the latex mask, which is sort of like, you know, he's breaking bad. Right. But he kills Devane in the pool, right? Well, because he sees that Shu and Brolin... I just said that! Right, yes. Goddamn sleepy boy!

Not that he's seen them in bed, but that he sees that they go and speak to Devane. Yeah, they're going around him now. Thank you, I had a new point to make. I'm wide awake. Okay, okay. All right, chill. Ben is currently splitting us apart.

I was about to punch David in the face. Jeez. Things are getting heated. They go to Devane and go, look, we lied about this, but he's a danger now. They spill the beans and Devane is like, jeez, this is bad. His wife comes down and is like, what's that?

And he's like, I'm going to have to make a phone call. Worth getting me out of bed. He's like, it's worth waking up two generals for. Have you ever seen a Paul Verhoeven movie? It feels like something right out of that. I'll tell you more later honey Bacon's been watching

the whole conversation these fucking turncoats he's furious it's a thing you never know when Invisible Man's around I know unless you have cool red glasses

that is the big question this movie asks is he around yeah you're alone yeah yeah no

think again nope so he drowns him in the pool which is really I love I think it's such a good nightmarish and cool CGI

CGI then he goes back to the lab first does he first kill Gromberg or does he kill Janice he kills Janice first yeah that's a bad look

for this movie yep that was a different time that was a studio note too they were like you know who should die first? But now it's like this movie. Where they would actively enforce it.

This movie has like 40 minutes left and it's like, okay, they're all locked in this metal donut underground. He's got us here. He changed all the codes so no one can leave.

He wants to kill us. Yeah, he changes the codes. Right. He'll be able to get away with it if there's no evidence of the fact that he ever existed. That this experiment was ever done. So he's going to try to kill us off

one by one she's like running behind the group she's like the slowpoke and he kills her and they don't realize that she's not with them yeah he like drags her away

she gets a very ignominious death she goes to the bathroom a couple times in this movie we like see her taking off her pants and squatting on a toilet where she's wondering

if he's there or not but it's like a bathroom it's like a massive room with a toilet in the middle of it and no door yeah it's the room the size of like my apartment she's not in a bathroom stall it's like a toilet that's like a toilet in the middle of it and no door? Yeah, it's the room the size of my apartment. She's not in a bathroom stall.

It's like a toilet that's just in the middle of a giant room. It's like they took the set for the hallway after they were done shooting the hallway stuff and just put a toilet in it. Now it's a bathroom. So then he does a Spider-Man trick on top of some pipes. Yes. Lifts Greg Grunberg into the into the air strangling him which is really creepy

the Grunsberg's folds of fat his pudgy face all squeezed this is in the middle of his Felicity run and Brolin's like shooting at it

and he realizes he's up there and he throws him onto the rebar and it like lacerates his that's gross yeah that's a good

little Verhoeven total recall type yeah exactly where you're just like whoa oh oh yeah and the mushy face feels like a prosthetic I wasn't a little Verhoeven total recall type yeah exactly where you're just like whoa oh oh yeah and the mushy face feels like a prosthetic

I wasn't freeze framing it but it had a very unique look as opposed to the CGI fingerprints in other moments and then he tries to kill Brolin

and fails so then he goes off to Dickens and that's the blood on the ground scene she spills it to kind of see his footprints to see his footprints but she does it weird.

Like he just comes up behind her. It's like a bad idea. But it looks cool. Yeah, it looks great. That's a great way to describe this movie. It's a bad idea, but it looks cool. Where she's just like, I'm going to go get some extra blood. I guess because Grunberg is bleeding out. I mean, Grunberg is

like so dead. I don't know why they even bother. And she gets six blood packets. And they say that to her. She's like the den mother. She's the one who cares after the animals. She's the vet too, so she's humane. And so Shu and Brolin are like, he's not going to make it. It's bad. And she's like, no, no, it's fine. Let me get some blood. Yeah, let me go get

six blood packs. Spill five. I'll have one left. And then how does he kill her? She's the one... Oh, no, no. Grunberg he steps through the thing. He kind of and then how does he kill her he she's the one oh no no Grunberg he steps through the thing he kind of

what does he do oh first he shoots the dart into her yeah he sedates her she's on the ground he starts groping her and then he snaps her neck

yeah he snaps her neck right that's very brutal but it's covered in the blood this is the point where his strength and his power and his inability to be killed

just becomes insane. It's true. He's like shot and lit up. I mean, it's Michael Myers-esque. He's shot and lit on fire and like thrown down an elevator shaft. And electrocuted. And he's just still coming.

Yes. It makes no sense. He all, and then, right, because then somewhere in here is when he locks Elizabeth's shoe in the meat locker or whatever it is

and she has to like MacGyver her way out of there somehow. And let's just say because I don't think we've talked about enough anytime any sort of substance is thrown on him anytime he's put into any water any gas anything like that yeah you see his silhouette and you see his flapping dong well sometimes they kind of deploy the dong it's quite a bit in the infrared every time every time yes yes and uh some other there's also this sort of massive like veins there's lots of info when he visual ensure when he's in his sort of partly visible state with the muscles and everything you clearly see the muscles of a

dick and balls which i like uh fair enough you know verhoeven at that point was just like didn't even have to argue on that. I watched for this. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's like, right in his muscle phase, you see the muscles of the penis and the testicles. Yes. Yeah.

Good point. Don't forget the testicles. I don't know how many muscles they have, but yes, whatever the testicle, but then right. As it does bleed away, his dick does go away and then he's just a skeleton,

which is fun. That's sort of like the most gentle version of it. Yeah. Um, he, and then he kills Slotnick with a crowbar, which is sort of half-assed. But then he doesn't kill anyone.

Yeah, well. Then Shu and Brolin get away in the elevator, which is... Brolin should die! He stabs Brolin. Brolin's bleeding out. And this is the second movie within close range

in which Brolin is trapped underground for a long period of time with a woman and then survives. That was his role at this time. That was his ballyway. I really just think Brolin should die.

That's my main pitch on the end of this movie that I really would change. What do you think, Al? I didn't really... By that point, I was pretty checked out. Yeah.

It gets boring. By that point, I wasn't like, you know what would fix this movie? I was just thinking like, this is a fascinating monster character. It's a fascinating

scientific parable and the last 40 minutes of this movie is neither yes you wish that he had gotten Neumeier in to do a pass on this

you know something that's like even some more fun techie stuff like do some weird lab shit yeah just something

where they leave the lab or something I can't even imagine that's the thing it's like I don't know what a good Hollow Man movie is. This whole section.

You kind of want him to escape to Hollow Woman. Well, no. She gets hollowed. Because I think, I don't like any of the sexual violence stuff.

No, I mean, it's hard to watch and it's completely disposable in this movie. I don't like it. I don't know how you get there, but to me,

it's like, make a heist movie. Run the jewels. Run the jewels run the jewels I think like come on that would be cool yes I'm with you I think the sexual violence

of this movie is an idea where Verhoeven had that idea or whoever had that idea that's in the movie and then they're just so like

we did that right that's the thing we don't have to do anything more about this this whole last chunk of the movie aside from really good

visual effects and then the second chunk of the movie is right and then he kills people with superhuman strength it just feels like going through the motions how did he get into right. And then he kills people with superhuman strength. It just feels like going through the motions.

How did he get into the pipes and then get Grumberg lifting strength? Right. And you also get to the point when she's sort of flamethrowered him. You realize, okay, so he's completely burned over the entirety of his body. Right, yeah. And yet he's

still able to run this fast. And there's stuff melting onto him. And then he gets electrocuted. Right.uted right yes right yes right but then it's all gone yeah i also love very strange when the flesh kind of chars away on him it's really great i love how the electrocution like restores him to like muscles yes for some reason zero sense but it looks cool but i mean it does make some sense because it's like street fighter 2 logic where like the electricity makes your bones visible right like because you're like it's like Street Fighter 2 logic where the electricity makes your bones visible, right? Because you're like... It's like a cartoon character sticking their finger in an electric socket.

You're talking Barack... I'm talking Barack Blanca Obama. Blanca. Yes, I'm talking Blanca. Is that your guy? I don't know. I've been playing a lot of Street Fighter 2 on my... On your iPad?

On my SNES Classic. Oh, I have one of those too. Oh, I've been playing a lot of street fighter 2 it's fucking impossible yeah i had to go back reset the game and set the difficulty level lower well you know one thing is i was playing it for three days without beating a level well who were you being um were you guys i kept changing what's the the i was vega vega school yeah sure my my best one great opportunity to say that though those are my guys I kept changing what's the I was Vega Vega's cool yeah sure my best one it's a great opportunity to say that

those are my guys Vega sometimes sometimes what's the sumo wrestler Honda he's actually really easy to win with because if you just

lock into the hundred hand slap thing like you can just destroy everybody I remember that time John Lee was always yeah I remember that time

that M. Bison came up to me and said he was just going to do a jazz fight Griffin has been trying to say this for five minutes. Thank you. Perfect deployment. Because I had just been playing Street Fighter, probably the day I watched this,

I thought of that during that electrocution. Benny liked it. Did you know that M. Bison is called Vega in the Japanese game and Balrog is called Balrog or whatever. Maybe it's because M. Bison is supposed to be Balrog is Sagat is called Balrog or whatever maybe it's and because

M. Bison's supposed to be Balrog the boxer they were worried that Mike Tyson would sue them so they like switched all the names around yes

I did know that Zangief's my guy Zangief is hard to play with he's so slow he like lumbers I like the wrestling stuff I like the grabs

yeah I like to get close you get up close and personal yeah I like Chun-Li because she can like jump all around really, yeah. I like to get close. You get up close and personal. Yeah, oh yeah. I like Chun-Li because she can jump all around really, really fast.

Yeah, I don't play with her. She's good. She's weak, but she's really fast. This is a great way to end your Vera Hovind business. 100%. Talking about our SNES classics.

Yeah. Yeah, this is why I think we should do an L bonus. We can do some rankings. Do you think we combine it with Black Book or do we just skip Black Book? Don't skip Black Book.

Black Book is amazing. Here's the thing. I love Black Book. To end not having participated or heard any of the other ones yet. It's amazing that he rebounded from this. This movie is fine.

It's like a C plus. Yeah. That's what it is. It's unbelievable that he went away six years later made an amazing movie. It's a five out of ten.

There's enough stuff. The stuff I like in this movie I like a lot. It's just kind of indifferent. Well we're going to do our ranking. Okay.

But isn't it cool that he disappeared from Hollywood? Yeah. Permanently, I'm sure. Yeah. Made a really good movie. Yeah. An epic. And didn't do anything for 10 more years.

Yeah. And then made a masterpiece. Yes. It's cool that he didn't hit rock bottom and be one of these guys like. Yes. Benny Harland. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

And then he made Elle and it got a fucking Oscar nomination. He made that movie and it got an Oscar nomination. Which is insane. He's the opposite of the Hollow Man in that he looked

in the mirror and didn't like what he saw and took stock. He felt like Hollywood was making him hollow. When you watch L, you're like,

I'm in Hollywood for a reason. L has fucking video game porn in it. It's not like he went stately. He's still the same old Paul. And the Black Book

is really lurid and sexual and thrilling. The other thing that's fascinating... Don't skip on it. Black Book's great. The other thing

that's fascinating... Jeez, I just broke my microphone. The other thing... I'm good, Ben. I'm good. Ben's so mad. Ben's furious.

He's struggling with rage. He's hollow with rage. The other thing that's interesting about Elle, and I guess we'll just do a fucking episode now, but that Elle is kind of

to the French erotic thriller what the Verhoeven Hollywood movies are to the American blockbuster. Like it's him adopting an outsider perspective to the dominant genre. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. One thing like I'm sure we're doing a bonus. Yeah. One thing that I'm sure will come up box office wise but like talk about the American blockbuster,

but like, you know, two weeks before this movie, uh-huh. X-Men. Yeah. Yeah. This is going to do the box office game right now.

Not to spoil any element of it, but there's no chance you wouldn't have gotten that. Look, the man got beaten by the men. This is like, to me, like there's no clearer thing that like this era is over. Yep.

The nins are over yes you're right adult R rated sci-fi high concept thrillers are over this is a good box office game and as of

two weeks prior to the release of this movie like this is the thing now and you have this summer is kickstarted by the highest grossing film of that summer which was

Mission Impossible 2 correct and is like once again here's a passing of the baton. It's no longer the star-driven... Right, but there's still Gladiator this year. You know, there are still these movies

that now no studio would be interested in. Right, but it's shifting. Yeah, it is shifting. Because especially Russell Crowe at that point, to put that big of a budget on him... Well, you know who was going to be the star? Guy Pearce? Banderas.

What? You didn't know that? Of Gladiator? That's why he's Spanish. That's insane. In the movie, he's called the Spaniard. You know,

he's Maximus, but they keep calling him the Spaniard. They didn't change that after Banderas failed? They decided not to change that because who cares? It's Iberia anyway.

But like, it's like, that was a Banderas role. I think Banderas would be a lot of fun in that movie. I don't know if it's as good because Russell Crowe is phenomenal in that movie,

I think. It's just like that's the role he was designed to play. But I do feel like that to me is the thing when I look this up because again I didn't look at what else was out at this time but I just know that X-Men had just come out. Yeah because X-Men is a July movie. And now 17 years later the idea of there being a movie like Hollow Man

is insane. And the idea of there being a movie like X-Men is monthly. Right and I was this summer I was all about X-Men. I a movie like X-Men is monthly right and I was this summer I was all about X-Men I was just like X-Men obsessive came out the weekend

of my birthday couldn't have been happier I was waiting my whole life for it that was how I felt when I saw X-Men I was like they finally made

something approaching what I was looking for I had all the trading cards I was like all in on fucking everything I had also seen Hugh Jackman on stage in Oklahoma. So I was even in on Hugh Jackman before the movie came out.

Like that's how far into X-Men I was. I was so into X-Men. And I loved Fly Away Home. So I was like on the Anna Paquin train. I was going to say, I was so into X-Men that for the year or two after this, I felt personally invested in the career of every actor in X-Men. So I remember seeing like Sugar and Spice opening weekend because Marsden was in it.

Yeah. And like Swordfish. Disturbing behavior, baby. Right. Like any of the movies that had any of the X-Men in them, I was behind.

Swordfish is another kind of relic of like the kind of thing here that's going out. I would love to do a Swordfish. Dominic Senna, that's her next mini-series.

Oh God. Who's right to that? Dominic Senna. Why did I think that it was Simon West they're very similar that's a good guess because it makes

no difference no that is Dominic Senna in between like California and Gone in 60 Seconds he made Swordfish which has that

absolutely no it's after Gone in 60 Seconds maybe yeah you're right absolutely horrifying monologue from John Travolta

that opens the whole movie I look at that monologue all the time it's so funny he's's like, they don't shoot the hostages. It's just monologuing to a video camera about Hollywood and how Hollywood movies are crap. And he has the

razor fin. He has the soul patch. It's not even a soul patch. It's like a vertical Hitler mustache. It's like a soul saber. It's like razor fin. Is it true Alex that every time you've auditioned an actor for any of your films you've had him do that monologue? That's the monologue. Is it true, Alex, that every time you've auditioned an actor for any of your films, you've had them do that monologue?

That's the monologue, yeah. You just hand them the sides. The script is top secret, so you're going to do this monologue from Swordfish. And when you're given the choice to walk in, when they're like, have you prepared something? You're like, yes, I'll be doing

John Travolta's monologue from Swordfish or a nice monologue from Crash about racism. Oh my God. I did see someone do a Crash monologue once and I was like, why? Bold statement. Yeah, that is bold.

We all just keep crashing into each other. I couldn't tell you one fucking line from Crash. I just remember crashing into each other. I just remember that when I walked out of Crash, I was like, so she falls down the stairs because she was so mean to her cleaning lady that the cleaning lady cleaned too much

and so the stairs were slippery, right? And everyone else was like, huh? Like, you're thinking too hard yeah anyway uh number one was hollow man 26 million that's a good opening for 2000 for august that's a fine healthy fucking it's fine it makes my money yeah twice twice how much was a king of prussia ticket back then eight dollars i was gonna guess eight do you want to hear something really embarrassing sure i the only movie I've seen

multiple times in one weekend I think was the first Shrek. The only movie? That's the worst thing I've ever heard in my life. I'm sorry. I think that's the only movie I saw literally

Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Oh my God. Is that true? That's even worse. I've definitely seen movies twice in one weekend. So like you won't see Last Jedi like Thursday

and Saturday? I remember seeing Force Awakens Thursday and Sunday. Yeah. I do this even still like once a year for whatever this movie is. I might have seen WALL-E three consecutive days in a row

when it came out. I don't do it as much as I used to. I mean at this time I would have done it regularly. Like this probably would have been the third movie this summer I did it for. Because you gotta see it with other friends. Yes. I got it. I got it. That was the thing with Shrek where I saw with my little sister on a Friday.

There was a birthday party Saturday. Sunday. My dad, I remember, showed me the box office for Shrek and said like, that's your $30.

There you go. You moved that decimal point over. All right. Number one is Holloman. Number two is the previous film. Number one, the previous week. Not X-Men?

No, no. X-Men is number six. So it's not even in the top five. Oh, interesting. So I didn't ruin anything by talking you didn't you didn't well well done two weeks it's been out for a month i thought it came out july 16th it came out july 14th oh it came out on my birthday yeah i thought it came out as wide shut came out to 16th a year earlier oh interesting uh you know came so i came on my birthday also that was a great day for me what a great day um uh So number two was number one week before.

It's a sequel in a comedy. Well, Night Professor to the Clowns? Correct. I remember we saw the trailer for that in front of some movie. I was with my mother watching some probably very nice movie. And we saw the trailer for that. And she leaned over and she said, you would have to point a gun at me to see that film.

My dad gladly took me opening weekend, me and Jamesy. I saw that movie at least twice in theaters. Talk about a movie with an unacceptable amount of sexual violence. Correct. Hamster on Man violence. That movie has dropped 60%, but still $18 million in its second weekend. It's dropping like a clump. It's clumping down there.

Made $123 domestic. Jesus. clump it's it's clumping down there made 123 domestic okay jesus uh number three is a new movie from uh one of america's most established uh oscar lauded auteurs who makes like eight movies a year and this movie is like completely anonymous and also like i saw it in theaters and it stars a bunch of guys and i i don't know. He makes eight movies a year. I mean, I'm kidding. He's incredibly prolific. He's incredibly prolific. He's won like three Oscars.

He's won three Oscars? He might have four. I don't know how many he has. He has a lot of Oscars. Jeez. Okay, wait. He still makes movies today. What's the number it did?

In its first week in 18 mil. And what did it end up at domestically? Good question. 90. Wow 90 so it played well uh and it's uh set in space a little bit oh oh oh it's space cowboys well i'll give it away did you see space cowboys i saw that no i never saw space cowboys it's kind of rude because it's um eastwood sutherland garner who are all like old and then Tommy Lee Jones who's like 15 to 20 years younger than them but they're kind of like looping him in. It's like the crew.

But wouldn't he have been like the young hotshot? He's the young hotshot. That's the idea, yeah. I haven't seen that movie but I knew that right away. Right, John Hamm's in that movie. Do you remember the crew though?

No. That's like Seymour Cot, Excel. Burt Reynolds? No, we don't. Right, and then Richard Dreyfuss is 15 years younger. We're going past this. All right.

Number four. We'll do our crew cast later. Number four. Yeah. no we don't right and then Richard Dreyfuss is 15 years younger we're going past this alright number four we'll do our crew cast later number four yeah is oh fuck based on a famous bar Coyote Ugly

yes which opened to 17 million in fourth place it was a big hit I saw that on it that may have been part of a double feature that I did with this movie I saw that on a date

a little 14 year old date sorry to take that away from you. I was just so excited to say that. Piper, Parabo, John Goodman, Maria Bello, Bridget Moynihan. It was a Parabo vehicle. She learned how to dance on the bar, I guess. A movie based on a famous bar is a great way to... I don't know how else to describe it.

There's only two. There's that and CBGB from a few years ago. Right. Number five is... Top Tail is based on famous... Number five is like a sort of mainstream thriller that was a huge summer hit. What Lies Beneath? What Lies Beneath.

Yeah. Which we've discussed many times on this podcast. It's a crazy box office performance. Yeah, 150. A lot of good movies here. Yeah. Yeah, this is what I'm saying. What a great week.

This is what? It's six. August 10th? Yeah. So I didn't even give you I'm saying. What a great week. This is what? It's six. August 10th? Yeah, so I didn't even give you the date. It's August 4th. August 4th. I can't believe X-Men's not even in the top five that soon.

I thought it would be number two. I'm sorry, number six. Six million. Yeah. It's made 136. You got Scary Movie, Perfect Storm, Disney's the Kid. Disney's the Kid. The Patriot, Pokemon the Movie 2000, which I saw alone in a giant multiplex. We talked about Pokemon. Weird Al Yankovic's song kid the patriot pokemon the movie 2000 which i saw alone in a giant multi-task about pokemon weird al yankovic song in the soundtrack yeah it's called pokemon pokemon

thomas and the magic railroad with mara wilson and i've got to find more gold dust that's one of those trailer lines i used to make fun of all the time do you remember that i do when they say alec baldwin there's a shot of him just springing up awake in bed like don't wake daddy going i've got to find more gold dust. Ben Hosley has been put through a lot recently and I would say this is another one for the books. Well, let's say

we're going to do a bonus episode. Let's announce our next miniseries. Oh, good call. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. And I know what the name of it is. Gentlemen and Lady. We're still debating over what the name of it is Gentleman and Lady we're still debating over the name of this

miniseries is Podcast News it says pod as it casts and it's the films of James L. Brooks Alex Podcast News I'm happy to be here to get to hear an announcement

like that yeah that's the perfect title for it I agree is it as pod as it casts I mean it almost seems like you I mean that's obviously less good

almost seems like you don't say obviously realize if we did a James L. Brooks series we could call it Podcast News right has that been used for anything Pazacast. I mean, it almost seems like you... I mean, that's obviously less good. Almost seems like you realized if we did a James L. Brooks series, we could call it podcast news. Right. Has that been used for anything? Has that phrase existed anywhere else? I don't know.

I hope that I invented it and I get royalties on whatever NPR show called podcast news eventually gets invented. That's really clever. Yeah, what would the other ones be? As Pazacast, which is really good. Pazacast. How do you podcast?

How do you cast spang podcast podcast list he did terms of endearment yeah pods of endear cast pods of endear cast no I think podcast news is clearly the winner

thank you congrats I've been given the seal of approval by Alex Raspary we'll continue arguing over this how many bonus episodes

will that series have 17 it's gonna have one we're gonna do every episode of the Simpsons we're gonna do are you arguing over this? How many bonus episodes will that series have? 17. It's going to have one. We're going to do every episode of The Simpsons. We're going to do every episode of Mary Tyler Moore. It's its own episode.

Yep. It's its own bonus episode. Yeah, just Brooks on TV is one. Yeah. Yeah, we'll just watch everything in preparation for that.

And we'll just be on as madmen. Did you hear him when he was on Marin? When he locked the gates? Yeah. Was he good? Canyon Gym.

Really good episode. Yeah, it's really good. He's a smart guy. He's really smart. We're going to talk about it. Smart, but not based on what our world is right now. No. He's very smart, and he doesn't understand the world that he lives in.

Correct. Which is fascinating. He wishes the world had never changed. Yes, and it changed on him right around Spanglish time. Right. No one has, like, he came out of the gates as hot as someone can and lost it as dramatically as someone can. And then kind of got it back and then really lost it again.

Yeah. Yeah. Unlike Verhoeven, he doesn't have a country to return to. That's true. Well. He returns to the land of. The Bronx. Springfield.

Yeah, the Bronx, whatever. I know where he's from. Canyon Jam. That's his whole Twitter account. He lives in the canyon. All right, Ben. He seems to be getting some kind of cattle prod out. Oh, no. I see. Yeah, the Bronx, whatever. I know where he's from. Canyon Gym. That's his whole Twitter account. He lives in the canyon. All right, Ben. He seems to be getting some kind of cattle prod out. Oh, no.

I see it's a Roku remote. It'd be fun if you had a cattle prod, though. I should get one. All right. Ben is holding a stun gun right now. Alex, you'll be back. Yeah, thank you for having me. We'll have you back.

It's always a pleasure to have you on the show. For a Dominic Santa miniseries. We'll have you on for Swordfish. Yeah. What would that be called? Pod in 60 seconds. Yeah, that's what it's called. There you go. You named that one, too. Thank you so much for you on the show. For a Dominic Senna miniseries. We'll have you on for Swordfish. Yeah. What would that be called? Pod in 60 seconds. Yeah, that's what it's called. There you go.

You named that one too. Thank you so much for being on the show. Please check out Golden Exits. Yeah, go to the Metrograph. That movie was great. And join Filmstruck. Watch all of them. Filmstruck, great service.

Worth getting in on anyway. Yep. I think they're buying my entire filmography recently, so you're probably going to be able to see my bakery in Brooklyn. Can't wait to see him wear the gonzo. Wear the gonzo, free the nipple. Romy and Eli's No Kiss List? Naomi and Eli's No Kiss List, please.

No disrespect to all the great films I've been in. Sorry. So sorry. I haven't seen that one. Yeah, show some respect. What's it called? What? Fucking The Beach.

Fort Tilton. Well, but that doesn't fit in with the joke I made. Right, right, right, right, right. That one's actually interesting. Yeah. Thank you all made. Right, right, right, right, right. That one's actually interesting. Yeah. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe.

Thank you to Lane Montgomery for her social media. And for Guto for... Thank you for Lane... God damn it. Jesus Christ. And for Guto's social media. Lane Montgomery theme song, Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds artwork. Is that it?

Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. We said already. Go to reddit.blankies.web.edu.org for some real nerdy shit angelfire.com slash blankies yes 8028burger

burger hotline 8028burger call into the burger report hotline anytime yeah should have asked Alex for burger reports

wait no I didn't can I just mention the thing I said I was going to talk about oh please very briefly and as always as always so Griffin when I saw you

at the mother premiere at Metrograph. Hummel Rag, yeah. Oh, yeah, right. I was talking to you and you said, I'm going to get out of here. Very tired. You said goodbye. Yeah.

I looked up five minutes later and you were standing talking to Kevin Bacon and Kira Sedgwick. And I said, I guess Griffin didn't leave. And there was nothing but tiny sliders being passed around at that party. We didn't see Bacon eating one. Do you think he gets Bacon on his birthday? But I thought it was very cool that you were like, I'm going to get out of here. I'm exhausted.

And then two minutes later, I just saw you talking to Kevin Bacon. I was exhausted. I wanted to leave. My father, as I was trying to leave, Roped you in. Went, hey, Kevin, you know my son Griffin, right? And afterwards I said, why do you say that?

And he went, well, you're both on Amazon. There you go. You guys hang out at the water cooler. Part of the Amazon family. My dad literally said, man, he must have been so excited to talk to you. I went, he had no idea who the fuck I am. What are you talking about? I said, but you're both on Amazon. That's a beautiful thing to say. He must have been so excited to talk to you. That's what my father said. Your dad's the best. Yeah, my dad's

a good guy. So there's, as always, I remember seeing you talk to Kevin Bacon at Metrograph. Who had no idea who I was and was not excited to see me. He was very nice. A mere 10 feet away from both myself and Jennifer Lawrence. Yeah. Yeah.

Who neither of us talked to. No. No. She's doing fine. Okay. Red Sparrow's coming out right about now.

Yeah. Goodbye.