Blank Check with Griffin & David - Howl's Moving Castle with David Ehrlich

Episode Date: October 6, 2019

David Ehrlich (IndieWire) returns for our mini-series' namesake episode on 2014's walking castle fantasy, Howl's Moving Castle! Together they examine analog versus digital animation effects, a talking fire, being a bird warrior and more!   

it's time to put an end to this idiotic podcast. Never! How dare you? So we're talking about steelbooks. Yeah. We had to start recording because we're talking about steelbooks. We had to start recording because Ben had pushed away from the table. Right. And was just looking at the wall.

Maybe looking at his phone. And to a certain degree had pushed away from civilization. Sure. Had sort of moved on from human society. Right. Our guest was saying that he had a problem with steelbooks because they wouldn't line up with the rest of his collection. Yeah.

It's sort of a crenellation. Right. So here's been my thing. And I've talked about this with David, because, of course, this Blank Check... Jesus Christ. Of course. I thought I could get it started fast.

Go for it. And I couldn't say the name of our gosh darn show. It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. You did it. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmography. Directors of massive success early on in their career

give a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. True. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce, baby. Oh, that was what I was supposed to do. I'm very concerned about what's happening right now. This podcast episode is seconds old, and people already know what it is. Ben's desk. Now, that is a mouth harp, originally called a Jew's harp, a thing we've erased in culture.

Bring it back. Speaking as a Jew, name more things after Jews. A Jew's harp. He's handing it to you Ben's desk looks like the setup that

William H. Macy has in Seabiscuit oh yeah like a reference ding ding ding like a little triangle a reference that definitely plays

with everybody listening let's watch Seabiscuit right now Gary Ross miniseries I haven't seen it in a while the tale of Desperate Pod

he didn't actually direct that. But Ben has brought in four different sound effects. That was a Randall Wallace joke. Joint. It was? And joke. Really? Randall Wallace from Braveheart, my boy.

The Tales of Desperate? No, it wasn't. You're making it up. He didn't do Seabiscuit? No. Oh, he did Seabiscuit. Yeah. He may have written it.

Did he? No, it was Gary Ross. Oh, yeah. No, Gary Ross directed it. Of course. Right. No, there's no did Seabiscuit. Yeah. He may have written it. Did he? No, it's Gary Ross. No, it's Gary Ross. Oh, yeah, no, I mean, Gary Ross directed it, of course. Right, no, there's no... So misleading. No, it's not Randall Wallace, who is insane. I rented this movie, and I was unpleasantly surprised. By the lack of Randall Wallace?

Well, it's just about horses. Yeah. There are no C's or biscuits. What did you think it was about? I don't know. I thought it was about a wet cookie. Okay. And there it is, folks. This is the right miniseries for that, though. I think P know. I thought it was about a wet cookie. And there it is.

This is the right miniseries for that though. I think Ponyo is probably the closest to a wet cookie movie you could ever find. It's Secretariat that's written. I had to check this because I knew it must have been some horse movie he directed. To listen at home, Ben is still laughing at his own C biscuit joke. He put his hand on David's shoulder.

He did. He did. I was fine with it. I mean, I liked the joke. So Ben has. I had my head in my hands. He's got a mouth harp. He's got a little bell. He's got his red boy.

And then he also brought in recently. Jesus. I feel like I'm. This is the most insane embellishment. Note to self. Make sure that this episode comes out good. Oh, I think you hit play. Yeah.

So Ben brought in a tape recorder to the studio recently and said, guys, I brought this in so you can use this for a bit sometime. And we went, how do you mean? And then he held it up to his mouth and said, note to self. Yeah, like he did like a Twin Peaks, you know. But the only thing you can really get is this very slight like click noise. Right? Right, right. Note to self. But the only thing you can really get is this very slight click noise. Right?

Right. Note to self. As if we couldn't do that bit miming it in an audio format. We probably have done it. 25 years later, Laura Dern will show up having heard all of Ben's messages. Except the other sound you can get out of the tape recorder is the one that Ben just got by accident, which is the voice of Satan. Scary. Not going to lie.

That's like that movie White Noise. Remember? Oh, Michael Keaton. That's like Michael Keaton's lowest ebb, I feel like. It's kind of like. It's like, you know how there's creepy tape noises? That's a movie now. It's kind of like this movie called Angel Has Fallen, which at the time of recording is in three days from now,

as the commercials will tell us, because we now count down to every studio release. Yes. There is the plot hinges on a disguised voice. It's obviously the vice president is the big bad guy,

and he's disguising his voice. There's only two other characters in the movie, so you know if they're going to disguise the voice. It's got to be one of them. Vice presidential villains. There's got to be a list.

They get a bad rap. There's so many of them. But here's the thing, is that Danny Houston, who's obviously the other villain. What? No, no. Danny Houston plays a villain?

Here's the thing. He can't. He's just too charming and sweet. Angel Has Fallen knows that it's in a Danny Houston movie or something along those lines because literally scene two, it just cuts to Danny Houston being like,

yeah, I'm the bad guy. Like, we're not even going to pretend that I'm not the bad guy. But the thing is, his main henchman, his regular speaking voice sounds like Ben's mom having been slowed down and his voice modified. And it's just like, why didn't just have him call? I don't mean to freak you out, but apparently

the other villain is Tim Blake Nelson. I mean, this is just crazy. Those two guys playing villains? They're up to no good? Is Tim Blake playing Southern? What kind of type is he in the film? Now, we wouldn't want to do that. Is it one of those?

Dig up the past. Or is he sort of like a neat kind of... I'd say there's a 40 to 50% chance that Tim Blake Nelson will only learn that he's in this movie when he listens to this episode of the podcast. Like, he is just that Tim Blake Nelson will only learn that he's in this movie when he listens to this episode of the podcast. Like he is, he's just being Tim Blake Nelson.

Wait, Jada Pinkett Smith is in this movie? She never makes movies. Jada Pinkett Smith rocks a beanie for 90 straight minutes. And then, spoilers for Angel is Fallen, a movie that you can now get at your local gas station by the time this episode comes out, gets shot in the face. Yeah.

How brutally? Real brutally by Danny Houston. In a way, and there's a double tap and everything. station by the time this episode comes out gets shot in the face yeah how brutally real brutally by danny houston in a way and there's a double tap and everything she ain't gonna be in uh you know whatever nolte has fallen or whatever the fourth one is thank god this is coming out two months after the movie's been released because otherwise people be losing their shit with the white hot spoilers you're you're spilling all over the place. Okay, can I say the steelbook thing? Yep. What I do is I buy steelbooks for 4K Blu-rays. So that way, the lack of cohesion with the rest of the collection doesn't irk me

because it's like, that's what differentiates these. You know what I'm saying? Can you get 4K steelbooks? Yes. Yes, my friend. They must be pricey. No, it's mostly a pre-order game. Oh, really?

Because they're often retailer exclusives, and it's usually about being on the ball. Are they pricey on the second-hand market? Yeah. That's why they're a good investment. What are you playing? Should we talk about Cole books? Let's talk about Cole books. Ehrlich was saying, our guest today is David Ehrlich of IndieWide.

Where I write about coal books at length. Right. He was saying that he thinks the better investment is in coal books. Yeah, because I think, you know, with our great president pushing coal back into the daily fabric of American lives, clean coal, a very real thing. Steel book, you're just throwing your money away. You're throwing your money away. Coal books. Right.

Gets a little ashy on the hands. Yeah. But, you know, will help pay for your grandchildren. Right. And if you're cold, toss that right in the time. Right. Gets a little ashy on the hands. Yeah. But, you know, will help pay for your grandchildren to go to college. Right, and if you're cold, toss that right in the fire. Throw your coal book of angels falling right into the fire

and you'll be warm for a month. Anyway, this was all brought upon because I got an email confirmation that my John Wick chapter three, a steel bucket ship, That's pretty cool. hold for applause. Did it tell you to Parabellum?

Yes. You know, the idea, the change from the way they were titling those movies that Parabellum introduced irked me as much as the size of the steelbooks relative to the rest of my movies. Here's my counter argument. So wrong. I made this argument on Twitter to you. What's yours? Here's my counter argument. What if Chapter 4 has 4 parts to it

exactly, it has to the game has to be it has to get more pretentious every time John Wick, okay I get it don't set him off John Wick chapter 2, I'm like oh classy John Wick chapter 3, let's get some Latin in there Parabellum

a dash and a colon or two colons. What's the punctuation there? Let's see. It's a, I can't remember. I keep confusing it with Mission Impossible. It's John Wick, colon, chapter three. Dash. M dash, parabellum.

Great. It's the Mission Impossible style. Right. So as long as chapter four adds another element, I'm fine with it. If it tops out at three, I will be furious. Yes. John Wick, colon, chapter four. another element. I'm fine with it. If it tops out at three, I will be furious. Yes. John Wick, colon, chapter four, M dash. And then like a Shakespeare quote maybe.

And then in brackets, like the quadratic equation. I don't know. Or a backslash. Backslash. Maybe like a squared. Chapter four is a URL. Yeah. I got to say.

Bring back squaring. Listening to your take. Alien cube. Yeah, alien cube. I mean, classic. No one could ever type. But listening to your take on John Wick 3, John Wick colon chapter 3 dash Parabellum,

and you mentioned that Keanu sort of bottomed out at the valley of his sadness with 47 Ronin. I felt, walking around the city yesterday listening to that episode, a real and profound twinge of guilt for my, and this was back in my film.com days where we'd rank things on a pitchfork-like scale with decimals up to 10. I think it was my 0.5 review of 47 Ronin.

But here's why I say to you, you shouldn't feel shame because if that film had been successful, we would not have gotten John Wick. John Wick comes out of a man having nothing left. So in a way, I played a small part in. I think so.

Maybe a large part. I think so. John Wick is a film that can only come out of someone needing to be reborn like a phoenix out of the tattered ashes of their big budget career.

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Right. Because he did his emotional rock bottom before that. Right. And then his career like a phoenix, out of the tattered ashes of their big budget career. 100%. 100%. Right. Because he did his emotional rock bottom before that. Right. And then his career also bottoms out.

And he's doing like direct-to-video dramas. Yeah. Right. And then John Wick comes to us like a gift. I don't know. I bet 47 Ronin's a masterpiece,

though. There are 47 of them. There are 47. You get like 35 Ronin. They gotta release the cider cut. It's true. That's one of those movies

that had like a three hour cut and then they fired the director. Wasn't the director like a visual effects guy? Yes, he was. Right. Also, I mean like the Mizuguchi 47 Ronin,

the Chushin Gura is like five hours long. It's a long story. It's like one of the most legendary stories. 20 minutes to each Ronin. I had a dream that Keanu,

it was I guess a dream set in the future wins best actor for chapter three Parabellum and in watching the telecast the mood was like well right of course and they gave him a standing ovation

and he was like oh god I'm not surprised but it still feels good he was joking about the fact that he had just like fucking racked up hardware all season, that it was a given thing. Right, right. Yeah, he has like a, he's like, he gets how he says it came true, right? Like he's like thought about every part of the speed. I had a dream last night that I got a $14,000 bonus at work, which is funny because I've never gotten a bonus at any job I've ever had.

And I've spent all day very depressed. You didn't get that bonus. I've had that where you write good news in the dream. Yeah. It just like slowly slides off of you. I used to work at a very old school place that was bad at giving you raises. But every year there was that Christmas bonus. It was very old fashioned.

That kind of like, it's a wonderful life. Kind of like, things have been good this year. Check your envelope on your desk. Do you know what my one is? I many times have had the dream where I get the call that To be a Ghostbuster?

I answer the call. I haven't had that. Oh, they're going to be men now. Thank God. I don't know about that. Well, no, but David, they're giving it back to the fans. And about time. The fans have no control over. They should be rewarded for good behavior. Imagine if fans, like if the release of movies corresponded to fan behavior, like it'd be like, yeah, no movies this year.

Sorry. You know what I mean like yeah my little pony fans are fine you get a movie that's about it what movie are the my little pony fans getting for their behavior book club stands you guys are alright

what was your dream my dream and I've had this a couple times back on track of this tangent of course this could be our cleanest, sharpest, leanest episode ever. Yeah. My dream that I've had several times is that someone drops out of hosting Saturday Night Live like an hour before the show goes. Oh, sure. Like an emergency situation.

It's an emergency. And I host the show cold reading off of cue cards. Sketches I have not looked at. Would they have told the live and or viewing audience about what had happened? I've had both variations. But in both versions of the dream, people are coming up to me and they're like,

this is going to make your career. This is incredible. What you're doing is incredible. It's like I'm pitching a no-hitter. It's your version of the Mark Wahlberg movie where he gets drafted into the Philadelphia. Invincible. Right.

They pluck me up and they go, look, no one else is. Timberlake didn't answer the phone. Baldwin's in the Hamptons. He can't get back in time. He missed his jitney. You're the fifth person on the list. We need you to do it.

And while I'm doing it, in between sketches, they're just like, you're doing it. You're really doing it. And I think like, oh my god, my career is going to be transformed tomorrow. I'm going to have my pick of the litter and then I wake up in my bed.

Hey, your bed though. Yeah, it's got those linen sheets. It's got those Brooklyn sheets. It's the one thing keeping me going. David, I got a question for you. Who's this handsome, fashionable gentleman sitting to your right? Or your left, my right? Ben Hosley.

The name doesn't ring a bell. Does it go by any other aliases? Let me try a couple. Let me just try a couple. All right, fine. Because I want to help Ehrlich out here. I did shave the reason. Yeah, maybe that's it.

Maybe he just shaved. He's producer Ben. Producer Ben. Ben Ducer. Yeah. producer Ben. Ben Ducer. Yeah. Producer Ben. The poet laureate. The Haas.

The meat lover. The fart detective. The peeper. Not ringing any bells. He is not Professor Crispy. No. He is the fuckmaster. Never heard of him.

He's a tiebreaker. He's soaking wet Benny. He's white hot Benny. He's dry now. He's birthday Benny. Very dry. He's graduated a certain tall over the course of different majors. Oh, that might explain it. Like, I white hot Benny. Seems dry now. He's birthday Benny. Very dry. He's graduated to certain titles over the course of different races.

Oh, that might explain it. Like, I don't know. Kylo Ben. Okay. Producer Ben Kenobi. Ben Eshomla. Ben Sate. Say Ben anything dot dot dot.

A-Lo Ben's with a dollar sign. Warhaz. Yeah. Perdue Urbane. I read about him once. Ben 19 the Fennel Maker. No. Eat Drink Ben Hosley.

Uh-huh. That's a good one. Benglish. You can, The Fennel Maker? No. Eat Drink Ben Hosley? Uh-huh. Oh, that's a good one. Benglish? Mr. Incredible? Doesn't sound right. Beetle Vape Juice? Oh, is he Public Benemy number one? He's Public Benemy.

He is Public Benemy number one. Now it's all... Now I know where I know him from. Robo Huss? Oh, it's so good to see him. Am I forgetting any other ones? I don't know. Do you know the one that was just thrown out on Reddit that I just want to select now?

Hossica? Of the Valley of the Wind? No. Of the Valley of the Farts? It's of the Ditch of the Jersey. Of course. It's beautiful. That rules. The Jersey of the Ditch. The Jersey of the Ditch. jersey. Of course. It's beautiful. That rules.

The jersey of the ditch. The jersey of the ditch. I forget which way it is, but I think that's the answer, right? Hasaka. Yeah. Hasaka. That's cool. Of the jersey.

I'm so honored to be on the titular episode. This is, of course, the titular episode because we're covering the films of Hayao Miyazaki. And this is a miniseries called Howl's Moving Pod Castle quite controversially no one's happy with it really I just feel like everyone had their own one they wanted because there were so many different ways we could go with this whereas very oftentimes there's like only one answer sure but even when there's only one answer they're like well right what about you pot of cake cast? Oh, boy.

The whole point is that this time we had three different movies that had Castle in the title. So then everyone liked all the different variations and whether you keep podcasts. I posted a fucking Twitter poll. They picked this one. I know. It's Howl's Moving Podcast. Listen, the fans were well behaved. Gotta do what the fans want.

They're well behaved. And so we've been picked up for another seven years. That's why we're back for an all-male episode. We're rewarding our fans with another Four Bros Talking About Miyazaki episode.

It's Howl's Moving Castle. David Ehrlich. I already introduced him but he's a guest so nice we got to introduce him twice. Oh, hello. Wait, a question about being a guest

on this show. Please. Four Timers Club now? Well, you're getting to where I'm getting here. Okay. You could say that I'm joining the pathetic four-timers club, or you could include the Patreon commentary episodes

and really say that I'm in the five-and-a-half-timers club. Right. Here's my answer. I don't care. Okay, here's my answer. I care a lot here's my answer i care a lot yes i figured that would be that we would sort of trade this off and for me i think it's it's five on the mothership i think it's five on the mothership and my take on this is it's sort of the asterisk that sometimes happens on snl wikipedia pages where it's like, Paul Simon, total number of appearances,

number of appearances. Number. But then it's like, hosted five times, additional 12 times as musical guest, sans host. Ben, can you hear somebody's heart breaking with these mics?

Yeah, I'm picking that up. Oh, great, okay. I think you got a gentleman's four, plus a Patreon, which is its own count. And a half. Patreon and a half. Patreon and a half. Patreon and a half.

Because he popped in for the last part of Doctor Strange. It's all popping. All the popping. You gotta pop in. Pop in. You gotta pop in, Mary Poppins. She returned. I was on a Patreon episode.

What do you think Seinfeld thought of Mary Poppins? That was Ross. That was Ross. That was not my... I know that wasn't your Seinfeld thought of Mary Poppins he saw it that was Ross that was not my I know that wasn't your Seinfeld I do wish Seinfeld as the father

of several young children did stand up routines about the movies he takes his kids to right you know

because you know he's seen all these movies what's the deal with these ugly dolls they're not that ugly remember B-movie and that was Charles and Damon what's the deal with these ugly dolls. I'm not that ugly. Remember Bee Movie? No, that was Charles.

That was Damon. What's the deal with Bee Movie? Only 135 domestic? It looks like it should have performed better. Do you think he took them all to see the documentary Honeyland, only to be very disappointed? Where are the bees? It's some old lady.

I can't do it. Why am I not doing it? He narrated Honeyland as Barry B. Benson, his character from Bee Movie. I'm taking my mountain honey. Should we do the Bee Movie franchise on Patreon? The what now? So Bee Movie and then all those YouTube videos.

Have you seen those? Like the one where it's like it doubles in speed every time someone says bee. Do you know that? And it's sort of like if you're watching the movie for like three solid minutes, it's just the movie. It's the best corner of YouTube. Listen, I'm still working through Hot Ones. I have yet to graduate to that level of YouTube. Huge season.

Idris Elba became a cross-internet meme. Yeah. Him coughing. He was so hot on that episode. By every definition. I was just watching it, and I was like, I fucking get it. You know what I'm saying?

100%. I mean, I've always gotten it, but 100%. Because when he's in casual mode, he's just as hot, if not hotter. I feel like I hadn't seen enough of him in casual mode. And I'd been like, this is a handsome man and obviously an incredible actor. I saw him at a, uh, in the back of a bar in Telluride, Colorado one year

and he was just sitting there like playing pool with like one leg up and no one was like shooting like a details cover. Yeah. But no one would go in to the back room where he was because he was too hot. Like there was a presence, right? Like you couldn't, it's like going into like the room at the gym.

It's like five minutes. You're like, I, I, I got to leave. There's just a crowd watching. The hot ones one is incredible. And it's also like every answer he is equally passionate, knowledgeable, and charismatic speaking about.

And he'll like test them on different things. And he's like, so I understand you like to play water polo. And he's like, oh, yeah, I love water polo. When the guy asks him if he wants a spicier hot sauce, does he say, turn it up, Charlie? He does. Turn up, Charlie? He does. Turn up, Charlie. He does. Oh, it's turn up, Charlie.

Fuck. Yeah, it is crazy. He's like, he will still just kind of do anything. It's a thing I find very interesting about him. And he's talked about this honestly. Netflix show, mate. He's talked openly about like, I think in today's media culture, you cannot be precious. Right.

You need to do all of it. Which is funny because he was in Hobbs and Shaw which literally stars the opposite. Like someone who's become kind of precious about their image. But there's something kind of incredible. Not Statham to be clear. Statham's more of a you know, omnivore. There's something kind of incredible about the fact that Idris Elba has so many

times now played the villain in a big Hollywood movie and has not gotten stereotyped as a villain actor. Can also play the hero, can also do drama. He's not in the Gary Oldman corridor. Nobody gives a shit about the movies where he plays a villain. I say what you're saying, that it's not sticking to him,

but it's not like Star Trek Beyond left much of a taste in anybody's mouth. He's great in Star Trek Beyond, and that's a great movie. The one that's bad is... Hobbs and Shaw's not very good. Is there another one? I guess it's just Jungle Book. He's very good in Jungle Book. You have to give him that. I mean, he's got a great voice.

Yeah. He's good. But then, yeah, but then he'll be in like Molly's game. Right. He'll be in, you know, Dark Tower. He's the hero. Right. Is that movie underrated?

Time will tell. And he's the new... I'm so happy that I can't have an opinion on that film. He is the new lead of Suicide Squad. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. And he the new lead of Suicide Squad. Right. Right. Mate. Yeah.

Right. And he's like one of Thor's friends. Yeah. And they were like, do you want to do more? And he's like, sure. Yeah, why not? Whatever, mate. Was he in Endgame?

Yeah. No. No. He gets killed. Spoiler. Oh, that's right. He dies in Infinity War in the first scene. Yeah.

Yeah. Where at my Marvel movie marathon, they started Infinity War in 3D and the first scene. Yeah. Where at my Marvel movie marathon they started Infinity War in 3D and the 3D was broken and so after waiting for two full days there to just be the first people to see Infinity War

everyone missed the scene where he dies. Really? Yeah. Because they had to like turn it off. Oh no he dies no he dies in the first scene

of Endgame. No Infinity War. No first scene of Infinity War. Yeah. Yeah okay. Yeah because they had to fucking fix the 3D that they shouldn't have

been projecting in the first place right that's the cold open of Infinity War the movie pretty much starts on the sword going into Idris Elba's chest yeah pretty much

right because then you get Thanos is for real he can kill gods yeah right and if you thought that was rough

wait until he takes off his armor right that's another and he's sleeveless wait until you see him farm. Our friend. This guy can pick millets.

Esther Zuckerman's boyfriend just told me such a good Josh Brolin story. Really? That I in no way can tell. All right. Well, off mic then. Off mic. Definitely involves his penis.

Oh boy. It 100% involves his penis. Fantastic. Okay. I'm going to tell a story that I think I can tell on this podcast. Is it about your penis? Yeah, it's about my penis. So Josh Brolin and I were hanging out.

And I mean hanging out. Derek Simon, one of my old friends, a friend of the show, future guest. He went to see, fuck, what movie was it? It was when he was at NYU and they were screening some film and Josh Brolin was doing Q&A afterwards for the NYU film department.

And Derek went up to him afterwards and I might be getting this wrong but it was a variation on this. His question he would always ask when he met celebrities was something like ninjas versus robots. He enjoyed

just asking Sans context. Hi, Mr. Brolin, big fan. If I could just ask you quickly, ninjas versus robots. And Josh Brolin had a nervous break. Instead of just being like, get out of here, man. He was like, robots obviously

made a metal, stronger. He was like, what did you just say? And Derek was like, ninjas versus robots? And he was like, why did you just say? And Derek was like, ninjas versus robots? And he was like, why did you ask me that? Why did you ask me that? And Josh Brolin's entourage was like, yo, Josh, calm down. He's like, no, no, I need to understand what this kid's doing.

And then he was like, just pick one. Like Derek maintained his cool. And he was like, I don't know. In what content? What are you talking about? And the way he finally, like, Derek tried to calm down. He's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just, I want to say I'm very excited to see you in True Grit. And he's like,

True Grit? I'm like barely in that movie. I'm like the fourth build but seventh lead. It was like four months before it came out and he was like, I don't know, I worked like a day on that. Yeah. He's kind of crucial in True Grit. He's great in True Grit. He's amazing.

But he is obviously just right at the end there. But it's beautiful because they build up the whole movie. And he shows up and he's like, what are you doing? Are you a True Brit? I mean, some would dispute it. Wait, Erlich, why would you say that? Because he does his Idris Elba voice so well. Wait, rewind the tape for a second, Ben.

I feel like we lost something there that David said. Ben and I both scrambled for the tape recorder. It's a nice rewinding. Okay, and I'm listening because there was something that Sim said that I missed. What?!

Wait. That's what I call smooth podcasting. Wait, but... Note to self, that was good. In this particular context, given recent information that's come to light on this podcast, isn't Griffin Newman actually a true Brit?

What? Oh, Jesus. We can't expand the bit. I don't mean to do that. I don't want to play all the hits here. I'm just saying that this is... This is the fans. This is Jason Reitman's Ghostbusters.

I'm getting paid by the Reddit for each reference I can fit in there. Your father was fully British? Yeah. Okay, so you're full 50% biologically British. Britain is in my blood. No, my dad, yeah. My dad was English.

What does Britain look like in someone's blood? Is it like mince pie? Yeah, exactly. It's a dense dry fruitcake. It's a, you know, Yorkshire pudding. That's a very funny key figure. Yeah, no, my dad was from Surbiton,

which is a very dull part of London. Incredibly dull. No offense to any Serbitonites listening. Oh, boy. Wait a second. But like I would go- Our Patreon just dropped down to $100?

I'm going to see this on a Twitter moment. It was all Serbiton money! Blank check podcast host in hot water for anti-Serbiton comments. Protest at the town square. Keep your name, keep our name out of your mouth, dirty Americans.

No, Serpentine, it's like, you know, it's kind of like a commuter suburb, but I don't know. I mean. Have you spent time there? Yeah, well, we used to have to go there

to visit his family and it was always kind of like, all right, let's go to Serpentine. Like it was always a little boring. No offense to Serpentine. You know what I like? I like when people say uni. Uni. Uni. I went to uni. That's what everyone says. A little joltpentine. You know what I like? I like when people say uni.

Uni. I went to uni. That's what everyone says. A little jolt of happiness. Where'd you go to uni? I went to, I was at uni. That's a real Richard Curtis script. Primary school, secondary school, and then uni. Yeah. College means your last two years of what you would call high school. Weird.

I know. Sixth form college. I feel like Elizabeth Warren could pass, could like sell her presidency on, you know, subsidized college, free college, if you just called it uni. Uni. Rebranded it as uni. That would be so good. Where'd you go to uni? I went to Newcastle. People don't know that.

I'm an alumnus of the University of Newcastle. You don't have to brag. We know you went to London. Jesus. No, Newcastle's not in London. Wow. I'm not gonna just make jokes around what I think the Josh Brolin story might be with no further information. You know, I just want that to be the story. Like, it's like, I got a story for you about insert celebrity.

I'm like, saw that dick? Yep. And? Pretty good. Pretty good. Anyway. I get why he's a star. That thing's ready for camera.

No powder required. Do they powder your dick if you're gonna whip it out? Well, thank you for asking me. I don't know. Body makeup is certainly a thing. It has to be, right? Yeah, it is. Basic principles, you're shining bright lights on your body.

Body makeup is certainly a thing. But you rarely see the on-screen peen. And when you do, it's so often for comedic effect that I feel like they want it to look bad. I will say that in the—this movie will have already been in theaters by the time this episode comes out. But in Hustlers, there's a dick that—there's only one dick. It's really the only nudity in the movie. And I thought to myself when I saw it, that is not a powdered dick. The dick looked—but they told us before the movie that the visual,

the movie wasn't finished yet. Color correction, not quite. And so I think when they said that, they really just, they meant they had to go back and powder that dick. We got to add a little light. Also, Hustlers is like Stuber, R-rated comedy with only a dick.

Hustlers is not a comedy. I mean, it's funny, but it's- You know what I mean? But like, you know, R-rated movie. Yeah, but the principle of that is cooler because Hustlers is not a comedy. I mean, it's funny, but it's... You know, R-rated movie. The principle of that is cooler because Hustlers is about strippers and then pointedly only has a penis in it. That rules.

That's such a good thing. All that stuff about J-Lo being in it lies. She's not in it. It's two hours of a penis getting close up. And it's Hustlers. It's Hustlers. I'm amazed that Hustlers is good considering the amount of fucking

like Hustlers movies. I know. They were all bad. And now this is finally, they were like, you know what? Don't make him American, right? Like get all the other hustling out of there.

Yeah. Can't wait to see Hustlers. Yeah. Can't wait to see that. Tiff. Yeah. Is the peen from like a notable actor? It's from Laurence Olivier's pin.

Laurence Olivier. They dug it up. Yeah, right. No, it is of someone I've never seen before. That's one of my favorite jokes ever. But when Gone Girl came out and everyone was arguing about the Ben Affleck pin and whether or not they saw it and how visible it was, Connor Ratliff's joke was like, you know,

everyone's saying it's hard to find this penis in the movie that they didn't see it. It's actually very visible. People are looking on the wrong place. It's in one of the scenes where they're arguing.

It's just on a shelf behind him. A little Easter egg for you. Ben Affleck's penis on a shelf over his shoulder. He actually removed it. Did I say this on the podcast? Just the arc of Ben Affleck's career. a shelf over his shoulder. He actually removed it. Did I say this on the podcast? Just the arc of Ben Affleck's career. It's hot, not, back.

Affleck's good. And then people were like, he wins an Oscar. And then people are like, his penis is huge. And now he's down to zero again. Right, Phoenix tattoo. How does he rebound this? He's like, I actually have two penises. I'm going to tie for best picture

he must be so angry that Michael Fassbender used the big peen for positive but through him the big peen would be used for evil alright how's movie cut so what do you think of Hayao Miyazaki oh boy

big fan big peen I'm giving Griffin an incredulous look. Monster peen. Everybody knows that in Japan. All right, all right. The thing about it, I mean, I was thinking about this earlier because I had a feeling that Hayao Miyazaki was going to come up

on the Howl's Moving Castle podcast. Maybe. And I was thinking, like, this is a guy... I have a very, and I mean this in the most objective and pejorative sense of the word academic mind when it comes to film that sort of background and it's

really hard for me to apply the same or look at Miyazaki through the same lens like for me he is he the term that I arrived at on my walk here was that Miyazaki is daddy he's he is I like the classic sense yeah

father no I mean I I think of his movies as I'm not saying they're beyond scrutiny I don't like to think of them that way but like I'm a lot less interested in how the sausage is made it's

when it comes to him right I just it feels like it's sort of yeah just baked into who I am a lot less interested in how the sausage is made when it comes to him. It feels like it's sort of, yeah, just baked into who I am a little bit more. It's become sort of a language, especially with Totoro, through which I communicate with the next generation of kids in my family, my nieces. I'm sure my son will have a steady dose of Miyazaki.

I think we shouted your unborn son out on the page. Yeah, he'll probably be a five-timer on this podcast before I am, but whatever. A ponyoer. Little pones. I remember distinctly forcing my dad to

drive me up to Norwalk, Connecticut to go see the Billy Bob Thornton Claire, I was going to say Claire Denis Mononoke, which would have been quite a thing. The Claire Danes Mononoke. And so that was back in what, 1999. So even then I was already, I was already like, and my dad, like there's, it's like that would have been like nails on a chalkboard for him.

That he just could not respond to Japanese animation. I think he took out a newspaper during the movie and did the crossword puzzle. Which would have rightly lived Peter. Well, he tried his best. Your the crossword puzzle. It's been a brightly lit theater. Well, he tried his best. Your dad had fucking supervision. Fair enough. He tried his best. Yes.

But no, Miyazaki is very important to me. But how did you, it was Toru? Like, how are you? I think it was actually, it's hard to, I think it was actually through Kurosawa because Kurosawa was sort of my gateway into movies in general. And I always liked animation. And so that seemed like a logical leap. But I can't remember what came first, my love for Miyazaki or if that was the logical end of my fascination with anime.

Because I'm a little anime boy. Especially during the height of the DVD era. Like when they started putting out the Cowboy Bebops, the Rosaphons, the Neon Genesis Evangelions. Stuff was readily available for the first time. Right. It was like I would get like the read or die DVDs. It'd be like Griffin Newman, if he didn't have his head so far up his ass,

just like licking Pixar's fucking prostate, would live for this shit. Which is apparently in his ass. What can I say? I love the good dinosaur. Would live for this. And so I was mainlining that stuff, which was a very expensive hobby at the time. Sure.

Because you wanted to watch four episodes of Cowboy Bebop. You need to buy a $30 DVD. Yes, yes. And then one way or the other, really got hooked on the Miyazaki stuff, which is truly timeless and beautiful. But I wanted to do this movie because... You wanted to do a movie you were not in love with Yeah

And one that I wanted an excuse to rewatch Because yeah I wasn't sure how I felt about it I thought we'd hash it out I had not seen this movie in a long time I saw it at the Avon Theater in Stanford, Connecticut On the day it came out there And that's all I remember I saw it in Boston

I was living in Boston that summer I remember and I saw it with my aunt I was like living with my aunt and uncle for the summer doing an internship at the Boston Phoenix RIP and with Peter Keogh not RIP still going strong oh I just got some very bad news

Harrison Ford is done we don't need to go to that bit my aunt was such a sucker for it remains such a like she just wants to see like you know any new interesting foreign film art film right and so I took her to that she'd never seen a Miyazaki film before but at this point he has won the Oscar

Spirited Away has happened even my people don't know him by name it's like who's that Japanese guy that everyone says is so good yeah and it's the point at which like yeah if he has a blank check, which he doesn't, this is it. Well, he falls into the, I mean, I want to open this up as a side conversation

in a second, but he's a very different type of check because it's putting up the check he gets post Nausicaa as the capital to then be able to write his own checks for the rest of the time. And then Totoro turning him

into basically Disney. Japan's Walt Disney. But he's like what we covered with Spielberg except we were fascinated in the DreamWorks era of Spielberg because it's when he's also a studio chief and can finance his own movies and all of that sort of shit. But that comes after this 20

year miracle run of him being the most commercial filmmaker ever whereas Miyazaki like puts up his stake pretty early on in his career and then gets to do whatever he wants there's a really interesting article I read that I want to bring into this as well but uh you go to see with your aunt who was not a Miyazaki fan had never seen a Miyazaki movie and we watch it and my uncle I saw with my aunt and uncle my uncle was kind of like all right i don't know i don't get it yeah like he was sort of non-plussed by it my aunt was like i don't know if i liked that but i've definitely never seen anything like it so i was like all

right well let's watch spirited away because you know maybe that'll be the one that'll be your jam so i remember i was watching that too and she was still like i still don't think this is for me but it is at least, like I am interested to be exposed to this. So I was hoping to delay this recording as long as possible so I could listen to more

of the podcast and I failed. But the, because I don't know what you guys have talked about already, but it is hard to overstay. When you talk about Miyazaki's popularity,

even by this point, how ubiquitous Studio Ghibli stuff is when you go to Japan. It is truly I mean oftentimes in you know it's Chachkis

and then touristy areas but it is everywhere. So great segue to the thing I want to talk about. I'm trying to remember how this came to my attention maybe someone posted on the Reddit

and I want to give them credit but I can't find it now. But I read this article about one of the people who's maybe the head of Studio Ghibli in terms of business operations. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who was talking about their history with merchandising.

Because we've been talking about over the course of this May series how it's kind of weird. It seems to go against most of Miyazaki's principles that those films are merchandised well. Miyazaki's principles that those films are merchandised well. And I was hypothesizing that it was perhaps like a Jim Henson type thing where like Henson always sort of viewed it as like not a necessary evil but like a necessary concession where it's like this gives me the resources to be able to make my Dark Crystal, to keep these characters in the public enough that they become bankable, that I can use them for other things, what have you. And then perhaps Miyazaki came to some sort of conclusion like that.

What I found out from this article was that everyone was trying to merchandise these films for a long time, and he didn't want to do it. Because kids, they read the things. And he was like, no, no, no, no, no. Which, of course, made people work harder and harder to try to sell him on the idea. And they were like, eventually someone came into our offices,

a company with a Totoro plush that was so well-crafted that he had to concede. That the thing that won him over where he was like, you have put as much care and attention into the crafting of this toy as I do into my films. I recognize the work. I concede. But that the thing that they agreed upon was, we cannot make more than $10 million in any year off of merchandising.

So they cap how many merchandising deals they have per year and how much they can produce because they're like, we need to artificially limit the amount of merchandising that's going out there so we can retain to some degree the purity of the character. That is the most un-American thing I've ever heard in my entire life. It blew my fucking mind. And he was like, we found out, I found out at some point that the people in the back office were hiding from me that our grosses had exceeded that.

Right. That we had started tipping towards like 15 and I got angry and fired them all. You had them all killed, yeah. And like reset it. And it was like 10 is the limit. Now there's so much stuff out there because now it's been merchandised for like 20 years. Well, this is where I actually cross over into the toy world the toy world the only place really is like when you talk about gund which is the company that makes a lot of the higher end totoro stuff uh yeah i mean like the

totoro toys which again i've used as like lifelines to my nieces are like so well designed that's the thing they're crazy well made and they're pretty limited in terms of what the range is, and it also feels like they're cycling stuff out. Like, there aren't, like, evergreen, like, oh, this is always produced. It's like every year there's, like, a new line.

There's always some Totoro in circulation, but I'll see as I've been, like, mapping this stuff that, like, certain years, certain films have larger merchandising presences than others,

and not just tied to what's the most recent. There's a lot of no- face stuff out there right now. He's a cool dude. Yeah, but I'm just saying there's like a cycle to it where it's like, you know. He does have a face. He went to that and he said, I want to take my face off. But that's all he did.

Have you seen that video that was going around of like the on set video of Travolta and Cage shooting that scene? Amazing. We were never so lucky and Cage shooting that scene. Amazing. We were never so lucky as to have Face Off. You know what I mean? I'll say it anytime I can. For a film that's discussed a lot,

we do not discuss enough that the second act of Face Off is a magnet jail escape. Magnet jail. Everyone got so excited when fucking Guy Pearce went to space jail but it was like you all slept on magnet jail. I think when I first saw when fucking Guy Pierce went to space jail, but it was like, you all slept on magnet jail. I think when I first saw Face Off when I

was 12 or whatever, you know, like, yeah, I was like, this movie is like Nicolas Cage and John Travolta's

soft bases and they like jump in the air and shoot guns, right? Like the magnet jail is not touched on much. It's like 45 minutes.

It's basically like the Guardians of the Galaxy. They're shooting the scene where John Travolta is telling Cage, who is actually John Travolta is telling Cage who is actually

John Travolta under his face that he's going to die. The face is off? Okay, so let me explain the premise of Face Off. You're saying they took his face. Does CCH Pounder

fit a figure into this? Put up Margaret Cho. All right, don't send me down the ER rabbit hole. But the, so he's like, I'm going to go

fuck your wife, whatever. And he like, grabs Nicolas Cage and then they call cut and John Travolta's like, or one of them's like, I'm going to go fuck your wife or whatever. And he like grabs Nicolas Cage. And then they call cut. And John Travolta is like, or one of them is like, did I hurt you or whatever. And John Travolta walks away. And he's so giddy at how fucking wild this movie is.

He makes the broken arrow like, wee! Like jumps up and down. He's like, this is nuts. I love it. And Nicolas Cage is like quivering in the corner because he's so in his character. Oh, it's great. Two great performances. The other crazy thing that came out in this article that I read is that, and this is, talk about another thing that's super un-American, but I read this and it almost made me cry.

Yeah. Especially like fearing the kind of, feeling the kind of generalized anxiety I do about the state of the entertainment industry right now. He was like, look, people always try to say to me, why don't you allow for more merchandising? Because then you'll have the money to make whatever you need to make. And he was like, I have been very adamant

in the way I ran this company that we do not need to make a profit every year and we do not need to increase profits every year. Right. And we can—it's fine if we have a down year. Was this interview conducted before, like, 2015 or after? This was—now I need to find it. Because some of that logic, as much as I respect it, came around to bite them in the ass a little bit.

Sure, and now they're opening the theme park. Yeah. I feel like it was came around to bite them in the ass a little bit. Sure, and now they're opening the theme park. Yeah. I feel like it was probably around 2015, but his point he was making, which is a thing that people don't think about anymore, where he's like, there's this psychology, this mentality of every quarter needs to be bigger than

the last quarter and bigger than the comparative quarter from the previous year and all of that, and I think that's unsustainable and you need to accept that sometimes a year is bigger or smaller and I don't want the company to grow.

Like I want the company to stay at a manageable size. I want to like commit to numbers where like we won't go under. Where no single film has the ability

to like you know, kick us under but also we can survive without making a movie for a year or two. He doesn't want to Dark Phoenix it.

Right, right. Exactly. And the merchandising thing is part of that. And then he also talked about not wanting the films on streaming platforms. And he was like, look, there's no amount of money that matters to us. We know our operational costs.

We don't want the films to be flattened on a platform. It makes sense. Where then it becomes just another piece of They're afraid of you turning it on and watching it in the background. Right? You know what I mean? It's sort of that thing. In the same way that they're afraid of like

what if you just like slap Ponyo on anything. Yeah, exactly. I understand that. They want to retain some sort of control over how the characters exist in our culture. And I've seen debates and I saw debates playing exist in our culture. And I've seen debates, and I saw debates playing out in our Reddit.

But like, people being like, you know, it's better if it's on Netflix because, you know, more people get to see it and access and all that. And it's like, but you're putting it in the hands of a for-profit company that is gonna do what it wants with it once it's on its platform. Like, it's not, Netflix is not

a fucking public resource. Yes, which people think it is. Yes! Anyway. I would love, like, that video, immortal, iconic video of Miyazaki talking about that AI-driven animation. I finally watched it for the first time this morning. Right, I mean, they're putting that video on the Criterion Collection

later this year, so. We're doing an episode just on that video. This person has not experienced pain in their life. But like they And he's like right now? I would say I have

The looks on their face. I would love to see a version of that video about someone talking about Netflix or trying to sell Miyazaki on Netflix. Right, right, right.

You want a series of those videos just out there like the you know Ricky Gervais meeting all his like comedy idols and all of them hating him. Right. Or just the Hitler downfall, but Miyazaki reacting to X.

Right. No, but I also want the meme version. But you also just want to see like, and now Ricky's obsessed with this guy. And the guy's like, oh, hi. You're like this all the time? Ricky's like... I want the different titans of industry present themselves to me as obviously.

Here's our vision of art. You guess that was Celebrity Podcast now, though. It's like Dax Shepard talking to Burt Reynolds. I mean, Burt Reynolds is dead. Never won an armchair expert. He might have gotten in the armchair. I don't know. Can I tell you a secret?

It's an armchair? Like, this podcast is fine. I want to be an armchair expert. Yeah, everyone wants to be an armchair expert. Who the fuck is armchair expert? I love that show. Can I tell you a secret? It's an armchair? Like, this podcast is fine. I want to be an armchair expert. Yeah, everyone wants to be an armchair expert. Who the fuck is armchair expert? I love that show. You know, I just got to say, can I just say briefly, and it's going to be very topical by the time this episode comes out.

Yeah. Back Shepherds podcast, the sixth biggest podcast on the internet. Can I just say... There's a list now? We can officially say, like, six? I mean, I looked at iTunes. There is a framed record-shaped, like, whatever it's called, jewel case of the blank check artwork in the hallway of Audioboost, by the way. Yes, yes.

Sorry. We appreciate it. Right, we've gone platinum. I just want to say briefly, because, you know, I was so worried about Podfade, that this podcast was going to fade from existence. That it would disappear like the photo in Back to the Future. And not only will we not be able to keep making it, but the past episodes will have never existed.

We've been wiped from the timeline. Classic I'm my own grandpa kind of situation. I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you, Conan O'Brien, for saving the podcast.

No, no, no. He created it. I disagree with this. He made the first podcast and now we can continue living. I not only listen to Conan's show religiously. It's a great podcast. But also, the writer's podcast that they can continue living. I not only listen to Conan's show religiously. It's a great podcast.

But also the writer's podcast that they put on Fridays. I'm struggling with the Andy Richter one. But I do want to say, and I was thinking about this earlier, a big thank you to the Blank Check Boys for not having seasons. So it's a fucking podcast, Conan. Keep recording. Let's go. We have mini-series, but we don't take breaks in between.

I'll be back in October. Fuck you. I'll be here every week. I love that for me. Thanks's go. We don't like to take breaks in between. I'll be back in October. Fuck you. I'll be here every week. I love that for me. The only people who do seasons are people who are in a position to renegotiate their deal structure in between seasons.

It's a long way of saying that Miyazaki is very important to me. The Wind Rises is my favorite animated movie ever made. That's number one. The Wind Rises is uns animated movie ever made. That's number one. The Wind Rises is like unspeakable. It's like when I rewatched it I was like right we can't talk about it. I am very afraid of listening to that episode of this podcast. Almost as afraid

of I would be as if I were on it. It's just going to be us talking about Josh Brolin's dick. Great. But I saw you gave it like five stars. At that point we'll know the story. This thing he's slaying it all over town. But Howl's Moving Castle is does feel like

the first of his movies where the animation style suddenly because they introduced some digital elements yes which are kind of cool some of them

they're very jarring I will say I think this is my least favorite of the ones we have watched I've watched all of them other than Mater I have watched all of them other than Wind Rises

at this point oh you haven't done that yet? No. I've been trying to watch them truly in the near chronological order. That's one reason we wanted to do you before Wind Rises.

But, that's, you know, that's not me slamming the film. This is an excellent group of films. I'm not surprised. That is not a hot take. Would you agree with me, David? Like, maybe a lot of people

would probably have Howl pretty low yes but I thought you would be more into it because it's about like a moving castle and like it's more your vibe

his name is Howl that rules yeah I mean I was I was surprised that I was not more into it although I do like it sure

but it would be kind of like you know how you responded to like Castle in the Sky you know like you know you kind of like the weird sort of more world-building.

Anyway, go on. Some of that, too, was the discovery of me seeing that one early on. You have to keep in mind as well. But Miyazaki said he thinks it's the best thing he's ever done. Yes, he loves it so much. He said that before he made The Wind Rises. It's like when you listen to Tom York talk about radio and music. It's like, shut up.

You don't know what you're talking about. This movie is very important to him. He said a lot of wild things about this and music. It's like, shut up. You don't know what you're talking about. This movie is very important to him. He said a lot of wild things about this, though, that he's like, Americans didn't like it because it was about the Iraq war. And I'm like,

they didn't know that. They didn't pick up on that. They're not smart, guy. He said it while he was making it. He's like, Americans won't like it because it touches on the Iraq war. He said, right.

I mean, of course, I know that he made it and he's thinking about this, but I'm just saying, people aren't watching that being like, that movie just hated Bush so much. I hate it. Like I hate the Dixie chicks. He says that he won the Oscar.

Yeah. And while on stage accepting the Academy Awards started to feel conflicted. He didn't accept the Academy Award. Just FYI. Oh, right. Right. Cameron Diaz accepted.

Can I tell you that? I think that was why he didn't attend though, was it was right at the start of the Iraq war and he was feeling conflicted I think that's the Michael Moore

that's the that year it is the summer before Ponyo came out I saw the one time I've ever interacted

with Miyazaki was on this porch or this like and this castle went by it was this castle no it was at San Diego Comic-Con

where he was very begrudgingly, as you can imagine, there to promote Ponyo. In the summer, a couple weeks before Ponyo's dub came out in the US. And you have not... I mean, like as dismayed

as he could have conceivably been on stage at the Academy Awards, if you just imagined in your mind's eye what that would have looked like or how he looks in that video where he's talking to those animators. Double that. Put him at Comic Con smoking on the balcony

staring at his publicist with disgust that goes back like her great great grandchildren will come out of the womb feeling shame it was such a great time to go over there and introduce myself to him oh we're best friends now. I'll text him.

You, Cameron Diaz, and Hayao Miyazaki hang out all the time. I cannot believe anyone successfully convinced him to go. Actually, my mind is blown. I assume he just lived by a house with a little tree and then just didn't leave. That was his whole fucking... You know what I mean? And he just dresses like Van Gogh. I don't know if you guys

are going to cover in any capacity the two documentaries that have been made about Ghibli the Thursday bonus the Kingdom of Dreams and Madness is incredible that's the one the other one is like a DVD extra but it does have the animator clip but it really is about his home life

it's like and so you really get a sense of what Miyazaki is all about day to day the other one is interesting just because it's like, and so you really get a sense of what Miyazaki is all about day to day. Yeah. The other one is interesting just because it's like, is he, it's sort of you watching him on retire. Yeah.

You know, which is something he's done so many times. Maybe we'll combine both of them in the one hour. I mean, I was frustrated initially when he was on retired

because he made what, to my mind, was like the great cinematic swan song. Right. It's a movie about the end of things. Windrise is such a good

retirement movie, but whatever. Maybe this next one is even better. And then I pulled my head out of my butt and I was like, of course I want him

to make another movie. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? And it's going to be this grand opus that sounds like a Christopher Nolan movie. It's going to come out

time to the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. Living for it. This is another one, though, that comes out of retirement. This one, yeah. Right, right.

Well, okay, so this is what I want to say. So he doesn't accept the Oscar. He said he felt conflicted about being given an award by an American organization as they were going into war. Like, I think he views the academy and the U.S. government as being the same thing. You know, obviously,

Ampass was sending thousands of troops into Iraq. Right. And then I think he might have finally accepted in the last year or two, but I know for over 10 years he was— He declined even receiving the— Oh, membership. I'm just picturing the president of the Academy being like,

moving his soldiers around. Sid Gannis. Sid Gannis is like, send in the green book stamps. Send in the acting branch. Send in the cinematographers. I mean, once the publicist hits the battlefield, it's over. Yeah, I believe he

refused the trophy, would not return Cameron Diaz's calls, wouldn't become a member, now recently has relented. I think he is now a member, yeah. But he said how kind of came out of him

dealing with his frustration over being given a trophy by an American organization because he was like, I hate this war. I'm a pacifist. I think this war is pointless. It will only end in death. I want to explicitly make a movie that Americans will hate. Okay, can I parlay this into my big take of the movie?

But he's also making a movie about how being old is the best. Right, and then the third thing is it's adapted from a book which is not about either of those things. Right. But I think, and we'll get into this when we talk about the meat of the movie and particularly the way that war factors into it. But I think when he's talking about like really anything in his life that he feels lessens his integrity or something that he wouldn't live with. I think you see that expressed in this movie, which is really about the residual lessening and dilution of your soul when you do, like every time you do something that is wrong

or beneath you or immoral in some way, it's that much harder to come back from it. You make a concession, right. Well, it's just, it's hard. I mean, this is a movie in very literal ways when you come to Hal struggling to revert back to his human form. Yeah.

That is, again, in a way that is hyper literal but the same time i find very affecting uh about how much harder it is to reassume this this form of yourself for the longer you go about right i mean it's just it gets harder and harder and harder to come back from that i think that's a great fucking take great take uh killer take uh you make those concessions in your life and in your career and you end up an old lady with a George Lucas neck and there's no going back. She's hot though. Old Sophie.

Lauren Bacall. She can get it. I... No, Lauren Bacall's the witch of the West. I think that's who he's talking about. Oh, sure, sure, sure. I'm saying the witch of the West has old Sophie. I said you weren't sorry. Witch of the West is the one who has the George Lucas neck. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Yes. I'm not talking about Sophie. I'm saying the Witch of the West has old Sophie. I said old Sophie. You're sorry. Witch of the West is the one

who has the George Lucas neck. Oh, she has the George Lucas. That's a good point. I recognize my joke. Poor George. Yes, no, you're right. It's just, I'm recognizing your joke

while also being like, poor old George. I guess he has his billions of dollars. And he made his concessions. Yeah, right. But I do think that the, you know, the digital stuff in here,

if you had said to me, like, you know, hand-drawn animation, traditional 2D stuff that's inflected with digital bits, in my head, that looks atrocious. I think that, obviously, they would perfect that approach. But, like, I turned this movie on for the first time since 2005 and was just bowled over instantly at how fucking beautiful it is. So this is the other thing I find interesting. And I've just been watching all these in quick succession. Just burning all of your Pixar memorabilia with every new film.

Look, they have a very, very clear $10 million cap on merchandising. Pixar has never over-merchandised their franchise about toys. And my bedroom attests to that. Stands as a testament. This movie was produced in, like, a year. Right. Which I also think a lot of those sort of CGI techniques weren't just them trying to adapt to the times

but were, like, necessary in order to get the movie done. Because we talked about in the Nausicaa episode how for the big sort of bugs, they're using cutout animation. And the castle in this is like a digital version of cutout animation where it is not frame by frame.

It is like digital pieces that are being shifted around on the board. And I think that is, this is not a movie he had developed. It was a book they had bought because Miyazaki thought the idea of a moving castle was cool. He's like, wait, this castle's moving?

Castles usually stay still, right? There's a very bad logic to it where he's like, oh, it's big and it moves? I'm in. Here's a year of my life. Someone else was trying to develop it. Yeah, Hosada was going to direct it, I believe, right? He didn't crack it. Yes. What's there to crack? Hosada, who

recently, remember Hosada he made Mirai which is Nami for an Oscar last year he got I think kind of

got fired by Ghibli couldn't figure it out but they had already put a lot of time and I believe money and energy into Miyazaki like

leapt in right so it's like sort of like he went like well I got all this hatred for America where do I put it? On the flip side, I'm feeling really good about being old. Right.

Silver fox ears are wearing well. Right. And here's a movie that someone couldn't take to the finish line. Let me take over and make this in a year, which is like an interesting stew for a movie to come out of. And right. Before this, he said, maybe I'm done. And after this, he said, maybe I'm done and after this he said maybe I'm done. And then this movie

kind of like comes out as like a burst. Well it's that thing where you have, I think for him, where you have to go into every project believing it is or could be your last in order to devote as much of himself to these movies as he does. I think it's a good philosophy too. Like I think more people

should make things like it's the only chance they're ever going to get to make something. Even if they are providing their own resources and have this giant apparatus. Totally. In the same way that I feel like I would have less of an issue with most TV and most franchises now if they also treated every entry like it was going to be the last entry. Sure.

And then just came up with something else. Rather than making everything a string along. I'll stop beating this horse with this comment, but how do you look at the lushness of the animation in this? And it's especially, I mean, the animation in The Wind Rises is like my eyes just bleed thinking about it. And ever go back to like 3D animation. It's an entirely different thing for me.

I agree with you in an overall sense that I think most 3D animation is incredibly ugly. I think there are fewer people and fewer studios that know how to do it well. And I think there is a baseline beauty to any hand-drawn animation because of the process of it and because of how direct it is. process of it and because of how direct it is in the same way that the shittiest looking movie shot on film looks better to me than a mid-level digital film. You go to a festival now and you see anything that they

project in film which is rare and you're just like well this is clearly a masterpiece. There's some innate integrity to the analog nature of the thing. But I think there are people who use digital incredibly well and I think there are the people who use CGI incredibly well. We I think, you know, there are the people who use CGI incredibly well. We all stand Blobby.

He's a legend. Blobby's cousins are in this movie. Yeah. That is my thing, though, is that, like, watching these movies, I have been relishing watching this much hand-drawn animation, that the digital elements of this kind of irked me, even if I think they're well-executed, because I'm like, oh, man,

I've been living in this, like, pure hand-drawn world that when I see the CGI augmentations, I think Ponyo handles the CGI stuff better. And also Ponyo loves ham. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But I think the crazy sort of sparkly ocean effects in Ponyo that you could not do hand-drawn. Ponyo is a pretty perfect-looking movie.

Yeah. Yeah, This maybe has a couple moments where you're like, ooh. And not really an objection. It still looks amazing. It's an amazing looking movie. It's real pretty. Yeah, it's pretty. Howl. Yes. He real pretty. Howl is Miyazaki's like ultimate

anime boy. He is like the only one of the only Miyazaki. I mean, especially because it seldom goes into like the male like pinup sort of look, but like how super fuckable. And he looks like, also, I don't know how old he is. I feel like he's always younger than I think. So I should be careful.

But how do you think he's a minor? I mean, he's like, like there's the vibe that he's like kind of hundreds of years old, but also that he is a little boy. He was a little boy. He was spotted with Bryan Singer at the Chateau. I'm not drawing any conclusions. I just want to thank Griffin for taking what I said and then making it worse so that I was sort of off the hook. That's just good hosting. They were in talks.

But he is an anime boy. He is 27 years according to the Ghibli Wiki. The Ghibli Wiki. He could have been plucked from an average anime and not straight from the Ghibli wiki. The Ghibli wiki. He could have been plucked from an average anime and not straight from the Ghibli wiki. No, no, he's got that, but he's so, you know, it's the emo era. He looks like the puppet master from Ghost in the Shell or something.

Cool guy. I mean, the puppet master has more of a gender fluid thing going on than Hal doesn't. I finally broke down and I watched this one hell doesn't. Yeah. I finally broke down and I watched this one with a dub. Interesting. Not a dub I'd highly

recommend. Kind of a bad dub. I thought it was good but I know it's not famous for being one of the better dubs. I was perfectly satisfied with it.

It's fine. Billy Crystal's good. Crystal is rocking it. This is what I want to say. Crystal's in the pocket. Billy Crystal, man, I've never said anything

bad about on this podcast before. I've only spoke highly of and if you ever speak poorly of him you demand that Ben edit it out right

right did you ever hear about the Sundays he spent with his father I heard they're great he likes the Yankees I know and I love it I have nothing negative

to say about it I love his sort of emotional tendencies I love his love of old Hollywood here's for Miyazaki to cast although I don't know's for Miyazaki to cast, although I don't know how involved Miyazaki was,

with the ultimate Oscar host right after boycotting the Oscars. I think he demanded Crystal. Oh, that'll show them. They were just like, the Oscars have gotten bad, haven't they? Right. No, but Billy Crystal was always good hosting the Oscars,

and I always loved every performance he did on the Oscars, and I'm not certainly living in the mistakes of me choosing to talk about whatever I want in this podcast with a now dormant acting career. But Billy Crystal kills it in this movie. I think the dub is incredible. You think it's incredible?

I think it's one of the best dubs I've ever heard. I think the call's really good too. I switched over to the dub to remind myself because I think I saw the dub in theaters and I switched right back. I was like, yeah. This is the other thing I wanted to say while I brought it up.

Bale's really fucking hot in this movie. Oh, Bale's great. Bale slays it. It's also you have the added benefit of picturing whenever you get bored, Christian Bale in the recording voice, in the recording booth rather, having to talk about like the witch of the West and how like sad he is that he's not hot for the moment. And this is 2004 this comes out? Five in the U.S.

Five in the U. Five in the US. Premiered in Venice. Okay, so this is like- Did he starve himself for this role? He did. He grew bird feathers. Did he train to become animated? So we're talking,

it's right before Batman Begins. Right. You know, when he's making it, he's probably machinist weight. Maybe, I don't know. I think he like tore the sound recording guy like a new asshole when he like accidentally whispered

in his ear line. What I like about this performance is I feel like it's Bale in the like little women newsies mode.

Like the trajectory people thought he was going to have as a young actor. People thought he was going to be a cutie pie. I feel like that's one of Christian Bale's

best performances. He's really good. He's so charming the face David Elsim just made was so unhappy with what I just said

I was just like I was all in on Hal between the design and his voice he is such a little Emily yeah go on sorry

a little charming yeah the thing that's weird about the dub and sort of interesting is the way she switches between voices in the middle of a line.

Because sometimes her face will change to young again and Emily Mortimer will do that. It's one actor in the Japanese version. The other weird thing is that Emily Mortimer is hired to play a child. She's not a child. She's like a teen. But Emily Mortimer is not a teenager. Actually,, she's like a teen. Yeah, late teen. But Emily Mortimer

is not a teenager. Actually, she is. She's Jack Disease. Eternal teenager. Opposite Jack. She has very delicate bones and she brings,

I think like, she has the right spirit, the right naivete mixed with curiosity for that performance. I think it's a very good performance. I just think it's unusual that the premise of the film

is a teenager being stuck in the body of an old person they had asked every Cyrus they'd already tapped them all Josh Hutcherson crushes it as the little guy he's just starting to cook with gas Little Manhattan's a thorough let me tell you how to crush Josh Hutcherson

fuck Little Manhattan is a movie that is Little Manhattan is a movie that is truly impossible to watch without cringing so hard. I have not watched it. Little Manhattan? I'll tell you. How about a movie called Little Actor?

Josh Hutcherson. He's small. He's in my pocket right here. He's been a guest on Armchair Expert. What the fuck is it? It's the sixth biggest podcast in the world. I don't get it. Did he sit in the armchair and he's like,

all right, you're in the armchair. Yeah, Dax Shepard has a recording studio in his attic of his home. He owns with Kristen Bell and he has an armchair that she bought for him and he sits in the armchair and he interviews people. So it's just an interview show. Humongous.

Okay, but no, but I'm saying like, Armchair Expert doesn't actually, it's not like someone comes in and they're like, the thing I'm an expert about is. But the thing is that like, Dax Shepard's whole thing is this sort of, is very insecure about masculinity. He's very performative masculine sense.

He needs to be able to do anything. If he sees like a flat tire, he's got to fix it. You know, he's by a lot of things, stuff with cars. He considers himself. Yes.

Sort of a, an expert complex. Aha. He has to sort of convince himself. He can't do anything without. He considers himself, he has sort of a, an expert complex. Aha. He has to sort of convince himself that he doesn't know everything. Right. Okay. He is the titular armchair expert.

So as an interviewer, it's like he wants to know as much as the person he's talking to. Does he like talk about without a paddle a lot? Yes. Yes.

He had Seth Green on, they go into it. They get into it? Yeah. Finally. Right in the river. But wait, do they have paddles? No. It's interesting

though to hear someone talk about these forgotten movies which were obviously, understandably, such pivotal moments in their lives. Of course. And these are movies that, to use the parlance of this show, no longer exist. But for them, it is a chapter in their existence.

He's like above the title on a studio film. He directed Chips? He directed Chips. Does he, when he talks about Without a Paddle on Armchair Expert, does he call it Paddle? He might. It's one of my favorite things when people talk about their project. This picture I did in 03. They just pick one word from the title.

He would be a great voice in a Miyazaki dub I don't know who he played in this film but I do think everyone is very well cast it was a picture I did with Brill

Paddle I had to look at Steve Brill when we were filming Paddle actually and you know Abraham Ben Ruby that guy's got stories who's that he's you know him he's Jerry from ER.

He's in... He usually plays like giant people. Jerry is AWOL. I'm in season six right now. Jerry is AWOL. Jerry got a job. Sometimes Abraham Ben-Ruby would get hired on other shows. So then Jerry's not in ER for a while.

And then he comes back and they're like, Hey, Jerry, how you doing? And he's like, I'm good. And you're like, I guess this show got canceled. How was your four years sabbatical? You're right. Exactly. You were four years sab four years from being a desk clerk we were paid the whole time because you're just so charming right couldn't afford to lose you i do think the dub in this

is extraordinary uh either i i'm a very hardliner about subs and dubs when it comes to anime i think the idea of watching the wind rises dub did not in the Japanese track, which I'm sure you guys will discuss. You butchered his name and work when you talked about him on Nasik episode, Hideaki Anno, who is not David Sims referred to him in a way that I could feel anime fans dying across the world as one of the big guys from Evangelion, which is saying that like, I'm getting some water.

You can't take the heat, which is, it's like can't take the heat. Which is, it's like, I don't know. I don't know what the appropriate analog for that would be, but he is Evangelion. He voices the main character in The Wind Rises, and it is the single greatest voice performance I have ever heard in any language in any movie. Fuck, I need to watch it. I've been very depressed recently, and I do find it hard to focus on the movies, subtitled, and it is because they are so visual,

and I'm watching them at home, that the sort of like shifting of concentration has been difficult for me. You will find the Hideaki Anno voice interesting. I've watched every other one with subtitles. And this was the first one where I broke down and was like, I'm just going to. Well, if you're feeling tired, right. But he does something, and we won't have to belabor this because you do a whole episode on it.

But he does something that I've never heard before, which is just like, it's just, it doesn't feel like he's in a booth recording something. It feels like a human being that's just sort of like in this animated shell. It's a very organic, grounded, fraught performance. Unlike the sort of broader stuff that you hear in House Moving Castle, but, you know,

Hideaki Anno in The Wind Rises plays the lead guy. It's incredible. Do you think it's sucking on a clementine? It went everywhere. But also,

if you're depressed, you can watch the dub of Neon Genesis Evangelion. That's a show for depressed people. Really? Yeah. I'm trying to figure out if I should wallow in it or fight against it. You've got to wallow. Fight!

I love to wallow. And there are the angel and devil on my shoulders, the two Davids. I'm an angel. I just want to point out that Ehrlich- Angel hasn't fallen. Ehrlich started criticizing you. You threw your arms up in the air, walked out of the studio, and came back in sucking at Clementine

the second the subject was over. And now he's making his stinky baby face. This is my sucking at Clementine face. Oh, it's fine. You weren't an anime boy. You know, you probably, yeah, you got your own stuff. I do feel like I'm getting raked

even more than usual for mispronouncing things on this miniseries. As if I don't mispronounce every American word. You mispronounce everything. I said Hyper Bowl for four years on this podcast. There's a guy in the Reddit who's writing book-length bursts about the way the language is used and even the titles of these movies. The resources are coming to you.

I know you did. But Lauren Bacall, Lauren Bacall of Ernest and Celestine fame. So I, I saw. Ernest and Celestine in this economy? I saw. What if Ernest and Celestine?

I saw the Hobbs and Shaw of 2014. I saw a movie with Lauren Bacall on it last night at Metrograph. Okay. And then did not realize that Lauren Bacall was in the dub of this movie. What movie did you see? I saw the cobwebs, the Vincent Minnelli movie. How was it? Very weird.

Never seen that. Don't think I like it. I like Minnelli. I do too. Right. This is a mental institution drama that is largely about drapes. It's like a drape thriller. The 40s and 50s had a really strong handle on what that would look like.

So that's the thing. But it's like Richard Widmark and Charles Boyer. In the 50s, there were so many movies about drapes, though. Lillian Gish. It was like Marvel now. It's my problem with Hitchcock's Spellbound. It's just like they're talking about psychology in a way

that has not aged well. Well, this movie is mostly them talking about which drapes they're going to pick. And I'm not overstating this. It's 75% drapes. But I was watching

Lauren Bacall in like peak, like 50s. It's a young shirt. Lauren Bacall where I'm just like, god damn it. That's a fucking movie star. Like, she doesn't talk I think for the first

30 minutes of the movie and she's just in group scenes and because it's like Minnelli, it's like the group scene is a one-er. It's a master shot with a little bit of camera movement so you're just watching her in the background of a shot read a newspaper or whatever and I'm just like

that person just knows how to be on camera. You can just see through the set and she's making a pie or something. Right, she's just like there and I'm like that's someone who just knows how to fucking be on camera. You can just see through the set and she's making a pie or something. Right, she's just like there. And I'm like, that's someone who just like knows how to fucking be on camera and be electric. And like, look at how much control

she has over a movie star persona. How she like catches the light and how she's dressed and all this. And then to watch this movie with her like big neck and she's like, yeah! That's a weird before.

She's great. That character is insane. She's great in it, but I couldn't help but wonder like, did they just not show her what this character was going to look like? They must not have. Well, when you're doing a dub, do you think you're doing it to, like, an essentially completed movie? Sometimes.

You know, the English dub always comes out later. Right. I mean, a lot of the rewriting, because I did, I watched it with the dub, but with the subtitles from the Japanese version. That's insane. I want to see what the differences were. I do that. And for this one, the differences are just paraphrasing to fit the meter of the mouth movements. It's like they'll reconstruct the sentence.

I think the longer things went on, the more that became. Because those earlier ones, as some fans have noted, like in Nausicaa, she's like, What's over there? Oh my God. Like that sort of thing of like kids need dialogue at all times. The opening of this movie, I don't know if you want to set up the plot, but the opening of this movie is... What's set up the plot?

A castle. There's a moving castle and the world is at war. Hey, we gotta set up the plot! There's a moving castle and the world is at war! Slow down. But Christian Bale, the way in their meet-cute where he is basically playing Mystery, the pickup artist. And he like swings in and starts negging the bad guys.

And then it's like, oh, these like wannabe rapists aren't so bad, which is a weird line. But he, you get because of his vocal performance why she would be so sort of beguiled and attracted. He is captivating in every sense. Right. She's running. He's a dream boy.. In every sense. Right. She's running. He's a dream boy. To her family's hat store. That's right.

Which is called. Hold on. I have it here. Where did I write it down? This is very important. It's called Hatter's Hats. It's a really good name. Hatter Hats.

Hatter Hats. Okay. It's so nice. I named it twice. Yep. And she runs into uh this uh

wizard pickup artist um who who saves her mm-hmm um but but she's very quickly uh

uh cursed by almost inexplicably right a mean old lady a very jealous old lady yeah

jealous of her youth yes um in the book the witch of the waste is like the main villain. Yeah. And in this,

I think it's like she's a villain for five minutes and then she gets cucked and then she spends the rest of it being like a nice old lady. Right. I mean, Miyazaki doesn't really,

at this point going forward, I mean, really for a while now has not believed in villains. Doesn't really like villains. Doesn't like them. That's his whole thing, kind of,

is to remove these binaries. Right. He takes aim at certain flaws that manifest in people, vanity being one of them in this movie, which especially with the Witch of the Waste is a big thing, but he doesn't really hold the people accountable.

I gotta say, for the listener at home, Sims is going full Chalamet on this Clementine. He didn't eat the peach. I'm eating the peach. Yeah, and for the listener at home, Sims isn't eating it. When I said he's going full Chalamet.

He's doing the full Chalamet if Armie Hammer hadn't showed up. He's completing the act. Messy Clementine. Jeez. Least professional person in the world This right now what we're witnessing Is why I don't eat fruit I would love to see David

Participating in the presidential debate Ben just left And the second anyone just says like Sims your healthcare policy Is full of holes You just throw your hands up in the air Walk off stage and come back with a peach. Just eating fruit.

Thanks, buddy. And Ben brought a paper towel. That's the worst episode ever. Ehrlich's fighting. Fighting. I'm just admiring Ben's producing. He sensed a need, and he went and fixed it.

Can I give my take? Okay, so I watched this movie this morning. It's actually kind of a cool movie to watch first thing in the morning. Very atmospheric. Cup of coffee and some Hal. Do you guys

believe in demons? Do I? I think there's one in the White House right now. Hey. Donald Trump more like Satan Trump. I don't know. A demon Trump. Now, I don't know very much about most things in the world.

Japan, my understanding is they have culturally a mythology about demons and spirits. I'm not that familiar, but they have their own unique kind of thing going on. Correct. Oni. I don't even know what that is.

I'm not going to speak on behalf of Japanese folklore. Not a religious person? Don't really believe in the afterlife? Or like spirituality? All I want to say is that I do believe in demons. Of course you do. Okay?

Of course you do. Something I wrote down in my notes was sludge demons in top hats. How do you feel about that? They're great. I wish that I had sludge friends. You don't? I kind of do. I wish that every morning I made my eggs and my fire talk to me.

Sounds like a great breakfast. Can we talk about the fact that Billy Crystal is literally straight fire in this movie? He is. He is the fire emoji if animators had to spend two years animating. Is this his last good performance?

Monsters University. I'm sorry, I couldn't hear that eye roll. Can you do it louder? Creak. Oh, there's someone at the door. Oh, okay.

Hey, it's me. You don't like me in Monsters University? I gotta go to a Yankees game right now. Mike Wazowski, my favorite friend, and look at how well animated you are. I will say. I got another character coming in.

The Jazzman. Bring him in, boys. Oh, no. Wait, no. I don't want to say anything. What do you mean you're calling the police? I don't want to say anything bad about Billy. I'm trying to be positive.

The pivot in the second half of this movie to actually Calcifer is the most important character. Love it. Not one that I enjoy. Right. Mike, you don't like it. No. I like it.

The second half of this movie is where, you know. Well, the second half of the movie. So to quote an Immortal Dex Shepard film or the title of one, this is where you leave me. I greatly prefer the first hour of this movie. Really? I kind of, but Howl's not, there's not a lot of Howl in the first hour. There's just the right amount of Howl. You get a nice sort of buffet of all these of, but Howl's not, there's not a lot of Howl in the first hour. There's just the right amount of Howl. You get a nice sort of buffet

of all these different elements. Howl's busy. You get it. Like, he's doing things. He's busy. He's turning into a giant raven or something and fighting wars.

And every time he shows up, it's a great time. The second half becomes so much the anti-war stuff. It does. It does. Which I think is like, thematically,

the best thing about the movie, but the way that it's expressed when they, it's just a little bit too much way that it's expressed. It's a little. When they. Yes. It's just a little bit too much, too on the nose. It sort of gets diluted where I know exactly what's going on under the surface during the first half of this movie. Yeah. And then as soon as he goes to see the king and the.

Right. Or Bacall and so on. He's like a bird man. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No. I mean, but I love the bird man stuff.

Yeah, yes. Yeah, no. I mean, but I love the Birdman stuff. But once they lean into the Birdman stuff, and, like, it really is just sort of about the logistics of him fighting, and they start making up these rules about, like, oh, Calcifer is a shooting star, and he's got Hal's heart, and they just cut to, like, a little heart sitting in the fire.

It's like, yeah, it's been there the whole time. That stuff, yeah, it gets a little too plotty for me. And, you know, if I'm watching Amir Zaki, I'm wanting the organic sort of free-flowing sort of dream logic thing. And it starts conforming to a little bit more of... It gets a little bogged down in world building. Which makes sense when you view this movie as like a product of his anger. Like this is a tiny like he's got a specific axe to grind.

Whereas like this stuff about like learning to enjoy being old feels like so natural. I love how unbothered she is. Like that scene where she's climbing up

towards the castle for the first time and she's like I like being old. Nobody bothers you. I love her. Is there a protagonist like her in an animated movie? She's wonderful. I love her. Is there a protagonist like her in an animated movie? She's wonderful.

She is, and it's a really interesting inversion on the fact that Sophie, until she's transformed, laments that she doesn't get enough attention. Yes. And it's fun to see her sort of swing the other way. I think that it's sort of the arc of life in a lot of ways. Right. At a certain point,

you're like, it's so great that people leave me alone. Leave me alone. I also think it's such a great high concept premise because you have so many movies where it's like a kid wakes up and they're in the body of like a 30 to 40 year old movie star. But none of them are just like, you're fucking old now. Right. Now you're a geezer. And I love that there's only like five minutes of her freaking out.

And then she starts like getting productive in terms of like survival. And then she's like, actually, this rules. Well, the first thing she does is, well, maybe not the first thing, but one important thing that you have to do when you are magically transformed into an old crone is befriend a guy named Turnip Head. You got it. Who will help you. Turnip Head.

Yeah. I mean. But I love the freak out. I mean, we'll get to Turnip Head. You got it. Who will help you. Got to prefer Turnip Head. I mean. But I love the freak out. I mean, we'll get to Turnip Head. He's a gentleman. Turnip Head, one of the great movies, one of the great moments in all movie history is, of course, when she kisses Turnip Head and then he's like, oh, hey, I'm a guy named Justin.

Okay, so we can get to it. All right. My favorite thing is when he pops it and he's like, I am a Disney prince. I had a whole adventure. And I have. And will you be? And she's like, whatever. Cool. Yeah and I had a whole adventure and I have, and will you be, and she's like, uh, whatever. Cool. Yeah, I thought I was kissing a

turnip. I thought I was just laying some tongue on some turnips. She is so uninterested in him, even though she likes him. Like, she's right back to Hal. And he's like, but I'm the king of the kingdom. I get to go to my kingdom now. And she's like, alright, alright, I'll see you later, bud. I love when she is old.

Looking to play the field a little bit right now. Looking to lock it up with a turnip man. I love how she's like, all right, all right, I'll see you later, bud. I love when she is old. Looking to play the field a little bit right now. Looking to lock it up with a turnip man. I love how she's senile and comically so, but not insultingly so. Like, that moment where she freaks out

and runs away from the mirror and then runs back as if she's forgotten sort of already what she saw. It's great. It's great. She's great.

She's a great kid. She's a great kid. She's a great kid. She also has this line that in the dub is delivered so beautifully, which is actually what Sophie's sister, who I would watch

an entire movie about because it seems like she is getting around that restaurant. Literally, there's five minutes of everyone just being like, hi, Letty.

Hi, Letty. Hi, Letty. They all know her very well. But she says to Sophie, oh, hey, someone just told me you floated down to the balcony. Which is just like, it throws you off. But it also, in a way that is very organic, in a way that some of the stuff in this movie is not, establishes how this world is right in the middle of a Venn diagram between fantasy and reality. Right.

Like that, you can choose to view that as a clunky line, or you can go, in this world, that's the equivalent of like, oh, someone told me you were here. Yeah. Oh yeah, there was a hot wizard. Right. Yeah, it happens. You floated down from the balcony, of course. So she gets turned to a troll. Yeah. She goes to this moving

castle that's moving around. Yeah. Who's there? Hal. Hal? Calcifer? Anyone else? Turnip head.

Turnip head. Lil' Joss Hutchinson. Lil' Hutchie, of course. Who transforms into a bearded gnome. Yep. So cool. Very good disguise. And the Witch of the Waste, eventually.

Right. Who are all kind of people who are like just leave me the fuck alone. I don't know. I don't want to deal with this anymore. Right? Like they all have that kind of that version of a vibe. Right. Like I was a star or something for a while. I don't want to do that

anymore. I'm happy just cooking eggs. Well only when Hal says so. And keeps the castle moving. He does keep the castle moving. I love the fact that you can only get into the castle through this little back door on the rear. It's very video game-y. Breaking news!

This is huge. I'm sorry. Matrix 4. Lana Wachowski directing. Yes! Keanu and Carrie-Anne Moss are in it. What? I don't know what to tell you.

What? Because they were denying it as of a week ago. A week ago. Just Lana, as we sort of have already figured out. Lily sort of maybe retired. Right, sort of split. Did Fishburne die? I don't know.

He's not in this release, that's all. I mean, you know. I mean, they could just get i mean harry and moss's character did die as did hyanis lana was at the tcas a week ago when we're recording and denied this it was it was because lana is the one who's working on that show right now lily's not doing anything now lily is sort of apparently just kind of done really making stuff wait i have to double check this it's the two l names sometimes i really am i wrong about this no lily was the one who was just at she was at a glad panel oh interesting talking about um you know sensei and she's the one working on work on the new show they have

they have creatively it seems divorced uh so lana uh is the uh. So Lana is the one that looks like Duna Bay in Jupiter Ascending. Wow. Pink dreadlocks. Sure. So they're fully... Wow. And it's not a Zach Penn movie. I fucking hope not.

And they're coming back. Did you see the other crazy story? What? The Spider-Man thing. Sony's taking away Spider-Man. That seems like public negotiation. Wait, what are they doing?

Feige's like, I'm not producing any more Spider-Mans. He's out of the cinematic universe. Whatever. Negotiating public where they're like, yeah, it's not going to happen and then maybe there'll be a fan backlash and Sony will be like, alright, alright, alright. Lucky for Jada Pinkett Smith that she was killed from Angel Has Fallen yeah it's not gonna happen and then like maybe there'll be a fan backlash and Sony will be like alright alright alright like what do you want

lucky for Jada Pinkett Smith that she was killed from Angel Has Fallen so she'll be free to go to the Matrix 4 bring Naomi back yeah bring the fucking

Nerovingian back bring back the Animatrix Nerovingian Disney Plus series or HBO Max whatever whoever owns this yeah huh

this is crazy cause I like I feel like Lana said I'm not involved at all Lily said I'm not involved at all I wish them the best of luck

I hope it's better Zach Penn was going to do a young Morpheus movie with Michael B. Williams Michael B. George I gotta say this does not feel like surprising news I feel like we all knew this was coming Michael B. Williams. Michael B. George. Sorry. I gotta say, this is like, this does not feel like surprising news.

I feel like we all knew this was coming. No, I knew it was coming, but I figured it was not going to be Wachowskis. Right. And no Keanu. And I thought if Wachowskis weren't doing it, Keanu wouldn't do it. Yeah.

He'd been clear he wouldn't do it. Right. And like, to me, Revolutions ends with a very much like, I know what that, you can do anything from there. What's Revolutions? The last one.

Matrix Revolutions. They made sequels? And David's going for a second Clementine. Maybe I should. And he's now truly doing it. He is walking out the door. I expect a re-entrance with Clementine. I thought it was just Matrix and a Matrix.

Matrix 4. It's the Animatrix. They just called it two. Two full movies because there were so many parts. I feel like we've been living with an understanding that the Matrix was going to get brought back in some capacity, but it seemed like the Wachowskis were not going to be involved at all, or if they were, it would be

in a very slight sort of advisory position, and if they weren't involved, the Keanu wouldn't return. Well, there was the story of like, they shut down the production company. And then there was another story where there was like, just kidding. We've reopened our production company. And so this felt like the next step.

This is so fascinating. And everyone will have chewed this up and completely processed it. David Mitchell is a co-writer on it. The author of Clout. Oh, sure. Weird. I'm so excited.

David is yanking out his hair in both directions. And there is a new Clementine on the table for the listener. I'm so happy. I'm genuinely so happy. I'm going to take a photo of this for posterity. The moment he learned. I have to say, it's a dark reflection of the state of the world that in the five-second window where you stop the podcast to announce huge news, I was thinking much bigger and much happier.

But this is exciting. What did you think it was? What do you think? I don't know. What? I don't know. It's a certain demon being sent back to the pits of hell, if you know what I'm saying.

Old Hades bringing up the little finger going, come hither. Oh, it seems, and David, this will be surprising to you, that Twitter has noticed. And that they are excited. But back to Miyazaki. Alright, anyone?

Oh boy. We don't deserve it. He's losing his mind I'm so happy right now Everyone's gonna hate it Can I take a photo? It's gonna be great You can take as many photos of me as you want

Okay right now though Okay give me Give me just a A pure look How does this look? How much is it gonna make opening weekend? 25 Nah they'll probably because there's enough.

No, I'm killing you now. I think I said this in the sequel episodes where I'm like, it's time that there's just so much nostalgia in it. Right. I think anything less than 175 is a failure. Opening? Yeah. Yeah, but I think that's possible.

Oh, I think so too. I think anything less than 175 would still be more than the total gross of any Wachowski movie that wasn't a Matrix movie. No, Speed Racer did pretty well. But even Revolutions ended at 130 domestic. Like, it will be their highest grossing film since 2003 by the time it opens. Probably. Boy.

Yeah, but will it have a line where a 90-year-old woman calls someone on the phone and her mom says, you sound ghastly like some 90-year-old woman? Smooth transition. It would be pretty funny. Imagine that, like, you called your mom and, you know, you're at college or whatever. And you're like, hello, it's me, David, your son. Like, I think she'd notice. I do love.

Just as I remember you over the phone. That people keep on trying to throw, like, old person shade at her. And she's like, no, I figured it out. Yeah, I feel love. Just as I remember you over the phone. That people keep on trying to throw like old person shade at her. And she's like, no, I figured it out. Yeah, I feel great. I mean, sure, climbing the stairs up to the king's palace is a real pain in the ass. We got to talk about this little dog friend. What a great misdirect. I love this.

This is my kind of bit. This is a real trick. Because she decides that they need to go talk to Blake Tanner. Right. Of course. As you do. Of course. Pay your respects at this point.

Turn into a nine-year-old lady. I love you and I'll see you in my dreams. Right. She's already won an Emmy for Huff. And you just have to go and kiss the ring and pay your respects. She won two Emmys for Huff. I believe she won two. I believe she was an unstoppable drag.

Any season that Huff was on, she won. Was that the docudrama about Felicity Huffman? Yes, exactly. Wait a second. What is it? Lily Wachowski rebooting Huff? Azaria, hold out.

Demands 20 an episode. Million. There's no Huff without Hank. Wait, Feige's producing it? Huff to enter. It's like when Sleater and Kenny broke up. Lily was like, I'm on Huff. And they're like, but what the fuck in the Matrix?

Do they know? Kevin Feige. Kevin Feige cast as Huff. He's taking the role. What was the thing I was going to say? The dog is introduced. Oh, they have to go talk to Blythe then. Alongst the stairs.

And she knows that Hal is going to disguise himself in some way. But he won't tell her how. She's looking around and she's like, street urchin, be a little sloppy, umbrella, not a lot of mobility. Like, she's like running through all the possibilities of what he could be disguised

as. And then the world's goofiest looking dog shows up. He's got little chicken legs and a long face. And she's like, okay, good job. Game recognized game. Very funny disguise.

Little dog, I'm going to jump on your back and you'll take me up the stairs. You just see this dog panting, like out of breath, like struggling. Very funny. To make up this eternal staircase. And the second I get inside, I play Theron's like, oh, thanks, you found my dog. It's so good. It's also one of those moments where the trope of Miyazaki characters talking to themselves pays off in space

totally but just her being like your dog and she's like yeah no I sent my dog downstairs to help find you she led you up the stairs

or you didn't take advantage of her in any absurd way did you and then immediately Hal comes in with his disguise and is called out like is totally caught.

Pretending to be the captain, the general. Pretend to love that war. Miyazaki's funny. I think he's the king. Pretending to be the king. Miyazaki's funny. I also want to point out that Sophie's mom is wearing a hat that has cannons and a dead bird mounted on it. That's how you make your fortune as a milliner.

Yeah. You gotta have, you know. Weaponize those hats. Yeah. War is everywhere. War even on it. That's how you make your fortune as a milliner. Weaponize those hats. War is everywhere. Even on hats. That's how you know it's gotten better. Not even hats are safe. Ben, did you have anything else to say apart from you believe in demons?

I realize we may have cut up your take corner. Believe in demons. I think demons are Asian aliens. Okay. A lot to go in there, but I guess we'll just sort of like. Sludge people are cool. What did you guys think of Howl's digs?

Because I didn't think it needed to be clean. The titular moving castle? Yeah. I thought the castle looked pretty good. I thought it looked pretty good. I like when he goes like and then like rearranges it. I think that's cool. And someone who lives in like a New York apartment. Sure.

It doesn't move at all. Right. But like you can't just be like what if there was like a bathroom right here. You know like let's just move everything around. It's not so transformed. I do love that Sophie's just like oh pretend to be the maid and they're like yeah I guess we might have hired one of those. She's like, Hal hired me. I'm like, Hal? I haven't seen that guy in a while.

This is his castle. And Hal just rolls with it. He's so good natured. He's like, oh yeah, hey, we can all be friends. I feel like all his emotional energy is going to being a bird warrior on both sides of the war. But there is this sort of like, chill,

you seem nice. Japanese RPG element of, of gathering a party. Like everyone they meet, they're just like spinning a circle. You're part of the party now. Right. Right.

You all, you have your function. And there is a nice little spirit of solidarity in that. Yeah. They feel like the misfits a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. The house of lost toys.

Can I just say that Ang texted David are you OK? And responds to the Matrix news and David responded with five crying emojis. I'm crying right now.

This motherfucker is still just peeling a clementine. These clementines are made of iron. Where do you guys buy your clementines? Amazon.com.

Bad company. Did something wrong clementine wise. I'll tell you how much. Really bad company. Bad company. Did something wrong clementine-wise, I'll tell you how much. Really bad company. Do you remember like the craft services at the Tick

where the clementines impossible to peel? Yeah. Sorry for bringing up They were laid out by Bezos himself. Yeah, right. Him and Billy Crystal

together. What about when Sophie says there are so many good lines in this dub. Is this a Lasseter joint? I don't know. He's sort of, I don't know how

directly he was over people. He was big in negotiating the deal. I feel like Sophie has a line that Lasseter had always hoped a woman would say to him. Which is when she says to Turnip Head, oh, you're just a scarecrow.

I was afraid you were one of those blob men. Which is the highest compliment I think a woman could pay to some people. So Turnip Head kind of gets her into the castle. She works at the castle. Al's at the castle. He's not at the castle that much. Yeah, he's out witching about. He's got blonde hair.

I think he has red hair. It freaks out about the hair. Yeah. I love that scene. Well, he's very emo. Well, he's very vain. I mean, like, vanity is, I mean, vanity is sort of the reason behind this war,

and I think in Miyazaki's mind, when you're talking about these powerful empires getting into wars that will only benefit them so much, it is often for posturing and vanity and for the optics of it all. And I think it's very pointed that the lady, I can't remember her character, the Blythe Danner character, Suleiman. Weird name.

Yeah. It's just like, yeah, I don't know. I've been alive for that. This war's dumb at the end. Well, that's sort of Miyazaki's take, right? He's like, these things are- But I think that Hal's vanity is a part and parcel of that. But there's the whole element too with Lauren Bacall when like Blythe Banner like undoes her magic and then she turns into like a mashed potato lady with a penis nose.

And Sophie's like, what's going on here? And she's like, yeah, this is how old she really is. She's using like 99% of her magic to look quote unquote good she used to be the best witch in the world

and then she got so caught up giving herself like magical facelifts right but that's the same take right like age

embrace it baby and every time she eats anything with that penis nose she looks like David Eat a clementine. Her nose is so pink and she looks so much like David eating a clementine. For the listener at home, David has morphed. Now that he has turned off his magic powers in order to eat the clementine.

Had to to peel its impenetrable skin. He is now a mound of wrinkles. He used all of his power to will the Matrix 4 into existence. Yes. David has no magic left. I don't believe it. He's a no-man.

Bring pants back. Joey, pants. Bring them back. Yeah. Bring them all back. Chong. Oh, man. Tank. Not like this. Not like this lady. Dozer switch. Chong. Oh, man. Tank. Not like this. Not like this lady. Dozer. Switch.

Switch. Nintendo Switch. Apoc. Yeah, Apoc you can keep. He's okay. I like the Apoc. Yeah, he's cool. Yeah.

HAL. HAL. What do we got to say? HAL should be in the Matrix form. HAL. Okay, but what's the deal with... Because wizards are super powerful, right? Yeah.

And witches... This is like a world where people are like, yeah, this wizard Yeah. And witches. It's like a world where people are like, hey, I'm this wizard. Yeah, yeah. But like it seems there's no lineage to the wizard. Like you could just, there are just people who are just born wizards. It's kind of an X-Men vibe. But Kiki's delivery service is also kind of like that.

Where it's like, oh yeah, what are you, the Newtown witch? Yeah. But witches are not like living gods in Kiki's delivery service. No, the wizards have a different status here. Right. Right. Right. Because there's the idea of like she was my witch of this castle.

Right. Witches are like employees in Kiki's Delivery. I mean they are literally employees in Kiki's Delivery Service. They're like public service workers. But she may as well be like a bus driver. But in here they are sort of more akin to like the spirit gods from spirited away. Yes.

Uh, where they are these mythic creatures, which is also doesn't really square with him. Right. It doesn't really square with the idea that how was like a kid and he's only 27 or whatever. But again, this movie is situated right on the border between fat,

like fantasy and reality. It's also like Miyazaki adapting a book where he's like I don't want I don't care about like half of this shit right like you know books probably more like well let's explain like how this all works and he's like I don't care how it works right well yeah it's like a book that he was like I sign off in the general sense on our company acquiring this because they're elements that are cool because I I hear that castle move. Right. I have no interest in making this myself. So then once he comes aboard, it's like,

okay, what do I want to say that I can shoehorn into? No, he looks at the book and he's like, okay, there could be a plane here and a plane there. And there could be just some cool looking Star Wars planes, like one man planes

flying in formation in the background of this shot. But I do think the way that he uses the planes, the war and the stuff about beauty and how being like, I see no point in living if I can't be beautiful. It does feel like a lighter take, like he's building up to, and again, we can only go so far into this,

to the wind rises where the beauty of these things is offset by the destructive power and the people who enable them also sort of have to live with the cost of producing them and the beauty that they bring into the world is very much of the essence and so Hal

is sort of a cartoonish you know emo version of that idea. I just realized what I want Miyazaki to do. Okay. I want him to start a YouTube channel where he reviews planes. I want him to ride a plane with me. Maybe he'd calm me down.

Sure. Oh, probably. He would make you appreciate the plane. Right. He'd be, like, talking about the majesty of flying. I just feel like I don't hear about plane nerds in the same way that you hear about like other types of vehicle nerds. Right. And I'd love to see like Miyazaki like trying out new like airline models.

Right. And being like this plane was honestly made. Animators in airplanes with Miyazaki? Yeah. That sounds great. Animators drinking tea in airplanes with Miyazaki. No, they'd be smoking cigarettes. It's animators smoking cigarettes on airplanes with Miyazaki.

Yeah. Right. But I do like the idea that you could just, like, if you're a nervous flyer, you could just request him and at the gate they would just give you a Miyazaki.

It's an option. Right. It's like, do you need a kosher meal? Do you need a Miyazaki on your fly? Right. Yes. And you'd just be like, oh, yes, that sound

is just the rudder going like this and isn't the barbarity of flight doing destructive power like destruction to the environment do you feel like if he explained like the machinations of the plane to you it would calm you down David I think so usually because of my fear of flying I have

tried to like get to know like what planes are doing so that like noises don't alarm me because you love trains you love cars I do I don't know I have to ride a noises don't alarm me. Because you love trains, you love cars. I do. I don't know. I have to ride a plane soon. I don't like it. You love trains and automobiles.

But what about planes? I don't like them. Yeah. Take or leave? You like a sub? Seems like a fully horrifying concept to me. Haven't been in a sub. Like a metal, a what are they?

Coffin? There we go. That's underwater. Right. And you can't leave. You love a sub sandwich though. I love a sub sandwich. They never make movies

about how like good things are in a sub. You know? You mean like Oh yeah. Movies are usually about like Yeah.

Being in a sub is tough and if one thing goes wrong like uh oh that sub might get called the widow maker. Planes are in movies, and, like, characters will get on a plane, and they'll take off, and they'll land safely somewhere, and they'll go about their business. People propose marriage on a plane. Sure. It's charming.

Sure. But in a sub, it's usually like, something's going to go wrong. Yes. Nobody ever just has soup on a sub. Right. Well, here's a question just for Ben. That's true. What about down Periscope? Might dip a sub in soup. Right, but soup on a sub. Right. Well, here's a question just for Ben. It's true. What about down Periscope?

Might dip a sub in soup. Right, but soup on a sub. Ben. Yes, sir. Do things go wrong in down Periscope? Is that the one with Kelsey Grammer?

Yeah. I don't remember. Yeah, I think so. Right? I think they're like a ragtag group of guys and then something goes wrong. We're all just checking the Wikipedia page for Down Periscope

Down Periscope Wikipedia looks like there's some sort of unorthodox tactics submarine comedy someone's charged with mutiny I think there's a lot going on relative to other sub movies, though, maybe less. It might be the most fun you could have on a sub.

Yeah. Golf on top. Yeah. Remember that part? That was a good part. That was a good part. That was a good part. That was a good part.

That's a weird round of mid-90s studio military comedies. What else you got? Where you have like- Major Payne. Major Payne. Sergeant Bilko. In the Army now. McHale's Navy.

These are all bad movies. Them all, like notorious flops. Saving Private Ryan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all career killers. Hilarious. So funny.

What about, Ed Burns, what if, you, all right, I'll pitch you. Okay. If you were Major Payne,

you could play like a, like a, almost like a Napoleon concert. What's that? Complex? Thank you so much. Napoleon Complex. You want me to reboot Major Payne and the bit

is that this time he's little. He's a short king. And he's mad about it. I could do it. Wait a second. There is another one we're forgetting. Renaissance Man. Oh, yeah. Which is Danny DeVito. Right? The ultimate Napoleon.

DeVito is considerably shorter than Newman. Penny Marshall? This feels like a step back. Yeah. I'm trying to get cast alongside Danny DeVito so I can feel huge. And fit. I can't believe. What?

That Penny Marshall's gone? We lost Penny. You're still reeling from the Matrix news what are you going to do for the rest of your day now I don't know is this what it's like after sex with you that's what this feels like

it feels like you're nonverbal now you've released everything yeah do you want a sandwich it's just one of those things where i'm like this this is gonna bite me in the ass somehow this is just i want this i wanted it to go exactly like this when they when they announced the trip to greece earlier this year i felt the vapors in much the same way very excited so you're saying that right now you feel like Bizarro Switch. Exactly.

You're saying. Like this. Like this. Like. Like this. Like this. Oh, Switch. Is there other stuff in your notes we need to cover?

I'm sorry this is the most runaway episode we've done in the last four days. When she says, just go find some fields and stand in it, it's a sick burn. Yeah. Sick burn. If an old lady said that to you, you would be destroyed.

Well, it's like Fawn saying, go sit on it. Yeah. One of my favorite insults ever. It is a good insult. Yeah, sit on it. What else is, Calcifer.

I don't know. Yeah, the second half of the movie is kind of a bummer. I agree with you that it's kind of a bummer where she's like, oh no, I put out Calcifer? I don't know. Yeah the second half of the movie is kind of a bummer. I agree with you that it's kind of a bummer where she's like oh no I put out Calcifer and there's all that to deal with.

Right. And like of course she put out Calcifer. But she had to. The last thing I want in this movie at the hour mark is plot.

Right. That's the thing. You're right. You're right. It is a lot of plot. It's just like more how. It feels like you know

some of the other Miyazaki movies will have like a lot of setup in the first half and then let you just kind of go transcendent in the second. Yeah. And this is the opposite, which kind of feels like a buzzkill. All right. So anyway, this is what's going on here. Right.

And there's that sequence where she sees Howl becoming magical, like catching Calcifer. Yeah. That just sort of happens. It's one of the like four different endings. Right, exactly. That's where you're like wait, is this now? Oh no, I guess it's not.

I don't know. And most of these are good individual sequences. I don't get swept up in it quite in the same way. That's the thing. I stopped getting caught up in the flow of the movie.

The character design is phenomenal. Like I love how Calcifer looks. I love how Leo, the little hunter. Yeah. I do. Calcifer, I think he's very handsome. What's your beef with Calcifer?

He's a little flame with eyeballs. I like that he leans on the log and hugs the log. He's a little flame from Brooklyn. He has ponyo eyeballs. He's got those white, round, shifty things. Okay, we don't need to make David any more horny than he already is. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just like, it's going to be a little fire. I don't need to make David any more horny than he already is. Yeah, and they, yeah, I don't know. I'm just like, you gotta,

it's gonna be a little fire. I don't know. I don't think Kelsfer's all that hot if you catch my train. Oh, boy. I do like that she kisses Turnip Head and he's like, I've been in my own movie the whole time. And she's like, okay. I feel like we already talked about it. I know. And then I'm trying to think of any other thing

that happens. My big takes on this movie is just that like it does in retrospect feel like he was fine-tuning some things and gearing up for the masterworks to come uh but and i really would have loved to see him maybe get ahead of that and pivot more in the direction of getting into like how in the battle over his soul and the difficult struggle he has in coming back to his human form and not have that lost in all of the mumbo jumbo that goes on around him but I do

feel like the crucial line in the second half of this movie anyways when he says that all this magic is just to keep everyone away I can't stand how scared I am which if anything feels like a animator who lives in their hut away from all life and hates interacting

with the public and just chain smokes all day long and has created more joy than like any other you know artist in the 20th century and beyond you know feels like Miyazaki putting his voice into him that line resonated with me and I think as Miyazaki became increasingly introspective,

that line was a hint at things to come. Right. It's funny that we'll talk about Wind Rises. What a movie. It's an incredible movie. But like this is the anti-war movie and not the Wind Rises. Yeah. Well, I'm sure you guys will get into the anti-warness.

I'm not saying Windrises is pro-war. Right, that was definitely an argument that was levied against it. Yeah,

but I, yeah, no, I mean, this movie is, it was derided for being sort of very on the nose

about its anti-war message, but I think that it's not just like war is bad. I mean, it's really, for me, talking about

what we lose by giving over to the impulse of war and like how difficult it is to extract yourself and the bits of your soul like from that experience and just go back to normal and the delusion that you can sort of you know pivot towards conflict then if you're back to normalcy and still be whole and treat other people with the same sort of selflessness that Sophie always does. I think that that is that's a salient message

in the movie that survives the borderline disaster of the second half. I think that's a great take. I think that is what works in this film. I do just like

I prefer talking about that being the takeaway rather than watching 40 minutes of it. I agree. Which start to feel both repetitive and didactic in a way that Miyazaki movies don't. Right.

Because the thing that is really joyful I found in discovering these movies is like, these are movies where like every 10 minutes the movie can totally change and its messaging can stay so sort of like open in terms of the way it's so thoroughly exploring all of its themes. So to watch them with them for like 40 minutes is, you know, even if it's doing so intelligently, just showing you that war is really bad and the people who do it are operating out of like,

uh, you know, uh, human weakness. Uh, it's, it's just a little frustrating for me. Um,

and it does, it does kind of just end a little damn point. Yeah. Actual ending. I mean, of just end a little damply. Yeah. Like actual ending. It was fine. Although you must like that Sophie kisses literally everybody. Yeah. I like all the kissing.

Yeah. I love kissing. Jesus Christ. I just saw a good movie with kissing. You are horned up right now. This is insane. I'm always horned up. Yeah, but not in Matrix 4 horned up.

He's pulled his shirt off and he's like spinning it around his head. He's like whipping it around. Wait, what was the movie you saw with Good Kissing? Angel Has Fallen? Good Boys? Was there Kissing and Good Boys? It was The Kissing Party, the whole movie. Oh yeah, that's right, The Kissing Party.

In Good Boys, I was just... No, I was making a joke. No one should say that Kissing and Good Boys is good. I'm aware of that. I'm just saying, like, my whole thing, the whole time I was like, if the girls don't eventually become friends with them, I'm out on this movie. Right. And so when the girls come home and they're like, you kids will figure it out. I was like, thank you.

Good. Thank you. That's what I was looking for. I got my scene. And then they ask him to sing and he sings and it's sweet. There's some good stuff. There's some good stuff. Wait, I just saw something

with really good kissing. It's okay. It's okay. I don't think it's very good. Okay, but... It's enjoyable enough to watch. Right. Was it Nodding Hill?

He's bringing up Nodding Hill. Good boy. He's just a boy sitting in front of a girl. No, I'm getting it wrong. She's just a girl sitting in front of a boy asking him to love her.

And then they kiss and I think it's good kissing. What was the good kiss you saw? Was it like a new thing or an old thing? You want me to look at my letterbox? Whatever happened to Royce and he finds? He became a great British dramatic actor.

Of course, was the lizard? He was the lizard. In Britain, he's in plays and TV miniseries and stuff. He's a great actor. I feel like Anonymous was supposed to be a big comeback for him as a studio man. Am I inventing the fact that he had a problem with alcohol? He has definitely had problems with drugs and alcohol.

When I worked at People Magazine, he was dating Sienna Miller. Right. And Kate Moss despised Sienna Miller. And I had to cut. I mean, I had to talk about all the intersenine warfare that was going on in their social set. Yeah. Where Kate Moss was trying to one-up Sienna Miller's birthday gift to Reese Evans. And it was kind of funny to think, wow, Reese Evans is at the center of the hottest British gossip of the year.

There was a thing, too, where he was doing the Comic-Con panel for Amazing Spider-Man and much like Miyazaki, he would not stop at chain smoking. Oh, sure. I was at that Comic-Con. Yeah, no. He did not seem happy to be there. Right. They asked him to stop smoking during the panel and I believe he got into a fist fight

with a security guard and was arrested. Great. I will say the moment when- It was Portrait of a Lady on Fire. Oh. Yeah. Well, there's some... Which won't be out by the time we end this episode.

But one day on this or some other podcast, I can do a dramatic reading of the text messages David L. Sims sent me after seeing Portrait of a Lady on Fire. Where we both agreed that it is the movie. It's the movie. I mean, she's one of my favorite living filmmakers. And the fact that she has made a movie that now everyone thinks is like Stone Cold Masterpiece, when I'm already this in the tank for her, is thrilling to me.

I was shaking for like two days after I saw this movie. We'll see if someone tops it. Can I just say, Ben is giving me the look where it's like, don't talk about the moment you realized that Reece T. Fonz was one of Britain's great dramatic actors. Talk tops it. Can I just say, Ben is giving me the look where it's like, don't talk about the moment you realize that Reece T. Fonz was one of Britain's great dramatic actors. Talk about it.

But then he just pointed at me to give me permission to do that once I sort of did a backdoor way of asking. Okay, Jesus. There's a moment at the end of a film called Notting Hill

where Hugh Grant has assembled all his friends and family. Can you do it as a note to self? All his fucking bougie friends. All his bougie friends. Ruin that neighborhood. Note to self.

This is the moment when Ree is a great dramatic actor, and he's giving them the lowdown of what happened. He's saying, you know, she came to the bookstore. It was kind of sweet, actually. She said that she was just a girl standing in front of a boy asking to love her. And then there's a moment of silence. Everyone sits there with that bombshell. And then Hugh Grant, you know, immortally says,

Oh, sodded dog, I've made the wrong decision, haven't I? And then there's just a cut. What a cut. The cut of the film to Reese Ephans. And this doesn't really translate in a podcast, which I should have realized before I went on this two-minute story. Goes, yup. It's just like an up and down. It doesn't even make that much sound with his mouth.

I believe it was in the trailer. It is a perfect moment. It is what Alva, Thomas Alva Edison had in mind when he invented the cinema. In the middle of the current war. In the middle of the current war.

And then it immediately cuts to doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-ch. Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-ch. When they're fucking racing to the Royal whatever-the-fuck hotel. What a movie. And then what happens when he gets there?

And then he, of course, they all make out. They all kiss the guy. No, but before. Oh, wow. Ben was winding up. A truly damp. Ben was waiting a full minute on mic with the mouth. And then he went like this.

He was just torquing up to be able to. How does this work? Wait, but they're not even. I don't know how deep into this you're getting. Before they make out, they all kiss the bellman. Right. Or the checking guy at the hotel. And then the Japanese businessman comes in. And this moment is a little squishy.

But he thinks it's the custom to kiss the guy, and then he jumps over the counter when he's checking in and kisses the guy. I just want to say, and I have seen several actors say this, and I can't remember any of them specifically now, people being like, they offered me the best friend role in this movie, and I said, what's the point? I'll never be able to do it as well as Risa Fonz did. And I remember the first time I read someone say that, I was like, come on.

But then you think about it, and you're like, that is always the worst character. Sure. Like, usually movies, that is the problem where they're like, there's this fucking like, slovenly roommate or brother or this bum or a slacker who just like, drives you insane. And even good actors

have failed trying to do it. He should have fucking gotten an Oscar nomination for that movie. It is insane. Isn't that 1999? Yes. I think it's a pretty loaded year. Five Best Supporting Actor nominees. He could have cut through.

Christopher Plummer as Mike Wallace. Yeah, right. Risa Fonz as Spike. Yes, Spike is his name. Nailed it, baby! I had a friend called Pandora. Never saw her books, though. Haley Joel Osment, obviously.

Tom Cruise, Magnolia, obviously. And I feel like... Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's like 18 other great candidates. Alan Rickman in Galaxy Quest. That's another good one. Let's play the box office game. We're gonna. I just wanted to mention, best example of that is John Heder in Just Like Heaven.

Sure. You know? He's like, I'm like the friend. Josh Gad? He's like a real friend. Love and Other Drugs? You ever see that one oh boy he's the brother he's the brother it can be a brother

it can be a roommate in that movie interesting fixation on his brother's penis in that film not a penis dog I mean I would be fixated on Jake Gyllenhaal's penis too

to be fair alright this movie came out in the US on June 10th 2005 a summer release it was a summer release it opened on 36 screens

to $427,000. 14th at the box office. It will not figure into the box office game. What was the final total? Four and a half, right? Yeah. Not great. Well, but I'm pretty sure it cleared 230 in Japan. Right. It's one of the highest

films in the history of Japan. It's still in the top 10. June 10th, 2005. They're releasing it like right before they release Cars. That shows you how uninterested Disney was in this movie. It is a Disney release. Number one at the box

office. An action movie. With movie stars. Multiple. Two. Is. Two. Is it Mr. and Mrs. Smith? Oh, boy. Hashtag the two stars. Hashtag two stars is what I give it.

That movie. If that movie couldn't keep those two crazy kids together, nothing good. Do you like Mr. and Mrs. Smith? No one likes Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Some people do. I think there's some stuff. I've encountered that opinion and I am interested by it. That movie is why the name, I mean there have been

several reasons why since, but that will always be the reason why the name Simon Kinberg sends chills up my spine. But Dark Phoenix, huh? I'm not saying it's the best reason, I'm saying it's the reason. Dark Phoenix is a very memorable movie. Number two at the box office. I do. I remember all that

stuff that happened. Spam call. Not my fault. Remember what stuff happened? Dark Phoenix. Existing? You know, there was like all those scenes with the actors. The Phoenix got too dark.

David, people are squinting. Squinting. Can't see that Phoenix. Can't see the Phoenix. Dark is a moonless night. Number two at the box office Animated film It's an animated film But it's not a Pixar

No Is it Madagascar? No Okay This is where I'm at I just figure you can nail these Big summer for me Number three is a film

That we've covered on this podcast Batman Begins? Nope That's next week Fuck Revenge of the Sith? Yes Okay

Number four Comedy Longest Yard? Yep Number five next week fuck Revenge of the Sith yes okay number four comedy Longest Yard yep okay number five ooh children's

live action film sort of interesting with animation okay which is sort of it is definitely for children but it's only kind of live action

I feel like it has a lot of CG and you know sort of crazy effects a lot of crazy effects yeah is it based on anything is it like only kind of live action. I feel like it has a lot of CG and sort of crazy effects. A lot of crazy effects. Is it based on anything? Is it like an adaptation of anything? I don't know. I don't think so.

What were you going to guess? I think I'm wrong in every way as a person can be wrong. Can you throw it out, though? It's like six years too late and not for children. Small soldiers. It's not small. It's like one of the best films ever, man. No, not based on anything,

but based on an original story by like the director's kid. Oh, Sharkboy and Lava Girl? Redemption! Wow. The Adventures of Sharkboy and Lava Girl in three days.

of Robert Rodriguez. You got Sharkboy and the only story credit of Racer Rodriguez. I'm sorry. You got Sharkboy and Lava Girl together because it was before the recession.

That is Taylor Lautner, is it not? Taylor Lautner, I believe, is Sharkboy. I forget who played Lava Girl. I think it was Florence Beale. I couldn't make a joke. Someone called Taylor Dooley. So two Taylors. A boy and Dooley. So two Taylors. A boy and a girl.

The two Taylors. I saw that movie together. What did you think? It's okay. Robert Rodriguez is, I know he's in your, he's in your good graces right now

because of Alita. Yeah, great movie. But, it isn't. But like, I think that your takes on Christoph Waltz are insane.

The thing about him. He's probably still my winner. No, no. Nivola came in there and throat punched him. Oh, really? That's a great performance. It is a great performance. That's a great performance.

Out of the field. But I wonder if a filmmaker has ever just like so casually, in the Hollywood system anyway or on the fringes of it, done so much on so their own wavelength in such an uninteresting way for so long. He is kind of a

fascinating phenomenon in that sense. That he did like a micro version of Studio G Bleat where he's like I figured out how to make every movie in my home. And it doesn't matter

if they're all bad. Right. But that they were all sort of like esoteric but also like kind of impersonal you know that he was like i'm following my whims and we're like i don't know who you are but my my kid came up with a movie called shark boy lava boy racer we gotta go that was joey's take on stuber was you know that joke in 30 rock where tracy morgan's like i made a whole movie in my car and scott adds it's like that was supposed to be a western

joey's like stuber just seems like one of those movies like it's fun you can make it in your car we will come to your car i enjoyed Stuber. So we got all five films at the box office? That's it. Number six. Can I try doing six through ten just because I breezed through them so quickly? Number six is a period sports movie.

Number six is a period sports movie from 2000. Honestly, making nine million in it at number six in 2005. Not bad. That's his opening weekend? No, it's his second weekend. Invictus 2. Two Victus? I believe.

No. What studio is it? Is it a Disney sports movie? Universal. It's a Universal. Sports movie is a bit of a trick here, but it is a sports movie. There's no question. So it's a weird sport.

It's a common movie sport. It's just kind of about other things as well. But it's a weird sport. Nah, it's a common movie sport. It's just kind of about other things as well. But it's a sports movie. Is Cinderella Man? Okay. All right, number seven, teens. Number seven is for the teens. And you love it.

I like it a lot. I haven't seen it in years. Comedy? Yeah, comedy. Ben's doing two fingers. He is. You know what that means? I mean, I do.

The teens are walking. They're walking? It's kind of a weird clue. What do you walk on? Water. What do you use to walk? Feet. And?

Legs. What goes over legs? Shoes. Walking on shoes. Nope. Pants? Walking with pants. Oh!

Sister to the traveling pants! Yeah, Ben? Very weird clue. You know. pants walking with pants oh sister to the traveling pants yeah Ben very weird you know yeah he just motions like two fingers as legs walk one of the great

cast ever assembled number yeah great cast second one is so good yeah second one's good too number eight is one of those movies you forget happen where it's like

kind of like guess who where it's like sort of black cast updating of an old thing. The Honeymooners? I never forget that movie.

I think it's weird that we don't talk about it all the time. Cedric the Entertainer. Mike Epps. Regina Hall. Regina Hall? Yeah.

Yeah. I never saw it. And then I'm trying to remember who the fourth actor is. John Leguizamo is in it as well but I'm trying to remember who the fourth person is. Gabrielle Union.

Gabrielle Union. The great Gabby Union. Who just showed up in ER season six. Yes. Number nine, big comedy. Return of a major Oscar winning star who had like not... Monster in Love. Number ten, French horror.

High Tension? Yes! I mean, I know there's not like a ton of French horror, but still,, you gotta write a book. I'm just saying, I felt confident. That's what, I want to do the 10. And then number 11 wins Best Picture. Number 11 wins Best Picture. It's correct.

That's right. Sometimes we're also numb. Let's keep going. Let's get to Howl. Let's get to Howl. Howl's 14? Then we're done, yeah. We're almost there.

Number 12. Number 12, Dramatization of a documentary. Also a sort of quasi-sports movie. Weird. It's a dramatization of a documentary. Yeah, Ben's into it. Oh, Lords of Dogtown. I think a good movie. I haven't seen it.

I think a very good movie. I think a movie's really underrated. Hardwick, right? Hardwick. And then number 13. Cheesy sports comedy that shares the name of a masterpiece. really underrated. Hardwick, right? Hardwick. And then number 13, cheesy sports comedy that shares the name of a masterpiece. I just want it to be known that last night

I hung out with a friend of the podcast, John Hodgman, and he made a joke about the box office game, about me being able to name what was number one at the box office the first weekend of January in 2010 2010 and then i went wait i want to see if i can actually do this he went to pull up box office mojo right it was down so he couldn't provide any context clues sure and i just sat there for three minutes and then went true grit and he went it just reloaded the answer is true grit that's terrible i just like i went into like the files

of my brain without any further information just knowing it was the first week in january right and i deduced it uh anyway uh my brain is broken and i cannot find happiness in life so you know a lot of pride in that story huge amount of pride uh give meplaced give me my victory please give me my victory or like you got a baby coming out yeah I have a baby launching at the end of November

it's going to be very profitable I think huge hit you're going to cap merchandising sales at 10 million per year right yeah

we're going to cap the amount of money that this baby can take from me at 10 million you want to keep the integrity you want the baby to retain the integrity of its character yeah no we don't want the baby to retain the integrity of its character. Yeah, no, we don't want the baby to be

spoiled by the tens of dollars that we have to spend on it. Right, going to keep the baby off the streaming services. Yeah. The baby will become the most beloved guest in this podcast, pushing me out forever. We do, we actually we had really wanted a girl. We were both

I learned about the term gender disappointment because the mommy blogs are on it when we found out we were having a boy and then I didn't really think about it too much because they were like you'll get over it eventually your kid will just be your kid and then it was really when we figured out the name that we both liked that I

suddenly wasn't just excited about having a kid but became very excited about having this kid. Excited for this name. I'm pumped for this. I will. We have Baskin Robbins, but I feel like we're about to get a big scoop. The name is going to be,

no, I can't drop the name on this podcast. You can't. I've already had this conversation with him. The way he talks about it, I'm like, I can't wait to hear what this like transformational name is. No,

no, no. I mean, it'll be pretty underwhelming. It's just the idea of having a name. It's Bob. Billy Bob. It's Sling Blade. It's a boy, so you can't name it Carol. Yeah, well, you can. Carol Reed.

Oh! I may have said too much. Well, look at that. But yes, baby, baby. Yeah. I hope so. I may have said too much. Well, look at that. But yes, baby, baby. Yeah. I hope so.

All right. I've got to wrap it up. I was going to make a bounce baby joke, and I couldn't. I can't wait to word it that was not morbid. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Ant for Gouda for our social media, and also for texting David immediately about the Matrix, being a good friend.

Thanks to Joe Bowen and Pat Rounds for artwork. Let's just say because when we were recording the other episodes, Pat had not done the art yet. We were talking about, like, should we task Pat with this? This is tough. It's like out of his wheelhouse, it seems.

I don't know how the fuck he did this. He's a genius. And he's winning all the Obies this year thanks to Lane Montgomery for our theme song go to blankies.writ.com for some real nerdy shit go to

Patreon for some real nerdy bonus content and TeePublic for some real nerdy shirts we love to see it new Patreon goals 5,000 listeners take Richard Lawson to Trolls the Experience nerdy shirts. We love to see it. New Patreon goals. 5,000 listeners. Trolls the experience. We take Richard Lawson to Trolls the experience.

Brief panic last night when we thought it was closing soon, but it seems like it'll be fine. It seems like it'll be fine. And 6,000 Patreon subscribers and Ben has to do a fashion show. You ready, bitch? I'm ready. We wanted to make this the 5,000 goal and Ben said he needed more time. Ben was like, more like six. Do you make berry jeans in 5,000 goal, and Ben said he needed more time. Ben was like, more like six.

Do you make buried jeans in baby sizes? No, but I will for you. All right. Buried onesie. We got to wrap it up. We got to call. Next week, Wind Rises. What a film.

And as always. No, next week's Ponyo. Oh, I'm sorry. Next week is Ponyo with Shirley Lee. Right. Now of the Atlantic. And a week after that, I get to watch Wayne Rides for the first time. And as always, tell us that Josh Brolin story.

Yeah. Turn the mics off, baby. All right. So they were at a urinal.