Blank Check with Griffin & David - Incredibles 2

Episode Date: June 24, 2018

On the week of it’s release in June of 2018, Griffin and David discussed Incredibles 2\. In the final episode of our mini series on the films of director Brad Bird we examine the record breaking box office hit sequel, a new card system, the fourth new new joker movie and more. Sound effects from freesfx.uk.co. Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

done properly podcasting is a heroic act done properly not not here nope nope nope no we're a couple villains here that's what we are a couple rapscallions you know what that was what you showing what a great job brad bird does is the voice of edna mode okay i'm not being mean i'm just saying like it's it's not as easy as it sounds to do a funny voice but i think that wasn't and for the listener at home apparently it's not as easy as it seems to not knock a cup of ice onto two little chips of ice it's fine it's fine could have been worse a dunkin donuts cup with nothing but ice. Well. Directly onto a mixing board. Yellow card.

Oh, there we go. This is what I like. We're going to get regimented here. We're going to get serious about this podcast. Oh, there's going to be a card system? Yes, because we're- You would collect like eight red cards an episode. David, I have been avoiding having this conversation.

Throwing up red card. I feel like you have gotten too lax, too loose. Oh yeah, that's what it is. Because of your wild erratic behavior, this podcast has gone off the rails and we have to start regulating it. Okay. So Ben's instituted a card

system that is never going to bite me in the ass. Starting on this episode, cards will be handed out for infractions. I expect to have a goose egg by the end of the year a goose egg in terms of what do they call it? bowling?

yeah is goose egg bowling? no goose egg is an egg that comes out of a goose I mean like fair enough good point what do they call it when you get nothing in bowling? I expect to have no cards. That's my point I'm making. No, I understand.

Now I'm actually, I'm just trying to remember. I don't want to go on about this too long because that could get me an infraction. I don't want one. No cards. For the record, David has one yellow card. Hello, everybody. Like a gutter?

Yeah, a gutter. I don't know. Hi, everybody. In cricket, they call it a duck. My God. It's like you're cruising for a card right now. Lost yourself. Fucking brought up the United Kingdom already.

Why? Why is that weird for you to bring up? It's the World Cup. Everyone's talking about a bunch of countries. Exactly. And that's why. Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't understand why it's odd that he would make such a point about him bringing up a thing that anyone would bring up.

Yeah, it just seems like a tangent. I'm testing the limits of the card system. Watch yourself. No tangents. All right. Hello, it just seems like a tangent. I'm testing the limits of the card system. Watch yourself. No tangents. Hello, everybody. My name's Griffin Newman. David Sims. I'm filing papers here,

like a serious newsman, which is funny because my name is now going to be Griffin Newsman. Great new character. Thank you. This podcast, this is a podcast. This is a podcast. This a podcast.

I've been listening back to episodes because I've been filming a TV show, which no one should do. Bad idea. So I've been listening to these episodes from months ago without recording new episodes. Me too. It is astonishing how much I

don't clearly pronounce any of the words in the introduction anymore. I just barrel through. I go, filmography, directors, and messengers. And of course,

a miniseries called The Podcastables. Yes. We're looking at director's filmographies. I just said all of that. Yeah, of course. Clearly.

Miniseries on the films of Brad Bird. And this is the final question mark he's out I'm teasing something later I'm teasing something that we'll reveal later this is

Incredibles 2 the most recent Brad Bird film a film so recent it's hot off the press it's breaking box office records as we speak biggest opening weekend for an animated film biggest Monday for an Biggest opening weekend for an animated film. Biggest Monday for an animated film. Biggest Tuesday for an animated film.

Probably the highest grossing animated film ever made. Right? Like I'm assuming. It will easily. It's following the Dory path, so it'll beat it. It's zooming past it. Yeah, it is.

I mean, Disney is going to have like three films gross over $500 million domestically within four months. That's insane. That's the thing. They released a giant flop and they're just sort of like, whatever. It wasn't a giant flop. It was a moderate flop. But that was the thing. Like looking at the schedule last year, it was like, Jesus Christ, Disney has Black

Panther, Infinity War, Solo and Incredibles all coming out within like four months. They're going to have $4 billion movies. Right. And so they're going to have four billion dollar movies. And so they have three. And I was talking to a Disney person not that long ago and I was like, but then after Incredibles, there's a little bit of a gap

between that and the Winnie the Pooh movie. And they were like, no, there's Ant-Man like three weeks later. And I was like, right, that's going to make a ton of money. It just never ends. I want to go on the record here. I think Winnie the, that's going to make a ton of money. Yeah, it just never ends. And I think, I want to go on the record here. I think Winnie the Pooh is going to break the opening weekend record for a movie written by a former blank check guest.

Shit, I think you're right. I think it's also going to smash the Pooh universe. I don't know. Yes, you're right yes you're right you're right you're totally right right because what

number two the prior record is I don't know what like Listen Up Phillip probably opened like 200k yeah I don't want to misrepresent

don't get mad at me Alex okay oh you know what I forgot about Trolls oh that's true his Trolls oh yeah Richard Lawson's Trolls

Listen Up Phillip opened at 23k so if anything I was over inflating yeah you know in two theaters I forgot about Trolls. Oh, that's true. His Trolls. Oh, yeah. Richard Lawson's Trolls. Listen Up Phillip opened at 23K. So if anything, I was over-inflating. Yeah. You know, in two theaters. Yeah. I think Pooh's going to clear that. You think so?

You think it'll be? Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. This is Incredibles 2. It's burning up the charts. But what do we think about it? Because we're connoisseurs of context. And we've been digging into this bird filmography.

Or at least we did dig into this bird filmography four and a half years ago we're talking about ready player one on those episodes we're like interesting could be good who knows we're literally like speculating on the quality of a movie that just like posted a trailer don't we in the iron giant episode uh comment on disney having just bought Star Wars? What are they going to do with that property? Yeah. I've actually appreciated listening back to our

Burt episodes, which he did record. We did record it a while ago because, yeah, it helped me think about this movie. Yeah, certainly. Certainly.

Certainly. But it is weird. As you said, when we were recording these episodes, there was like a teaser trailer for Incredibles. Right. And now the movie's here.

I think you like it a lot more than I do. I think so because you ranked it below Finding Dory. Now here's the thing. On the Twitter.com. Here's the thing. And I saw that and I was like. I'd made that noise. Alec Baldwin, here's the thing.

Oh, no. I like Finding Dory a lot more than most people. So I think people saw that ranking and were like, oh, God, he hates it that much, which it's like far from it. I think it's on the exact same tier as Monsters University and Finding Dory. Three movies I like a lot.

I think are solid, interesting sequels to perfect movies. Right. I think we have... interesting sequels to perfect movies. Right. I think we have... This is the thing. I was like, Pixar rankings. To me, this is the third best Pixar movie ever made. That's insane.

Right. But that's basically how I feel about this stuff. Behind the two Brad Bird movies. Yeah. You are much more of a Brad Bird fan than... They are the Brad Bird... Right. They are the Pixar movies for me.

That's crazy. I like Toy Story well yeah I mean it's great can we be very clear about that sure

let's be frank okay like Toy Story 2 sure okay the perfect way the greatest pinnacle of American cinema

and then you know I think Finding Nemo is really pretty I like the Pete Docter movies like by and large and large, but I don't think I love them. You know, I like them a lot. I'm getting so angry just hearing this. And then I really like WALL-E.

I was like, there's one other Pixar movie I really do think is terrific, and that's WALL-E. It's called WALL-E. It's about a rabbit. Yeah, it is. It's about a couple of rabbits. Let's be honest. Rabbits in love. Let's be frank.

Young rabbits in love. Right. I obviously, I come at this from a very different angle from you because I'm not just looking at these films within the bird canon, but also the Pixar canon. I'm very interested in the arc of Pixar as a company, which we've talked about a lot in this miniseries. We have? Yeah.

And, you know, the thing I find frustrating about them right now is I'm very interested to see, I mean, at the time we're recording this, Pete Docter was just announced within the last 48 hours to be taking over Pixar. Seems like an appropriate hire, right? He's institutional, but he's, I don't know, I feel like he pushes to make interesting things. I do too.

Right? I don't know. I don't immediately see what will happen next with him taking over, but I think he's a solid choice. Well, probably nothing immediately, right? Yeah. I can't immediately imagine what the happen next with him taking over. But I think he's a solid choice. Well, probably nothing immediately. Right. I can't immediately imagine what the next five years will look like. What do they got coming up, Pixar?

Well, it's like a kind of a question mark. I mean, Toy Story 4 is supposed to come out next year. Yep. They hired a new writer two months ago to rewrite most of the movie. Right. That thing, which we'll get into, has been pushed back a lot. They've gone through many writing teams. Lasseter was supposed to direct it.

He dropped out before getting pushed out of his own company. So Josh Cooley is directing it. Who's just sort of like a Pixar career man. He's like a good Pixar story guy. I think he's co-directed a couple of their films. But then there's Dan Scanlon, scanlon at my fuck camp his name who directed monsters university i believe that has an original film that's set in like a fantasy universe that still hasn't officially been announced but they have two untitled films in

2020 right i think one of those is supposed to be the scanlon movie and the other one hasn't been announced two more another one for 2021 right and then two more for yeah but this is right it's all a mystery just claiming dates yeah you know yeah which they might if you know replace one of those with mulan or whatever you know it's like it's all a chessboard for them of just making sure they have all the prime sort of like tentpole dates. It's a big question mark. The one thing they keep on saying in interviews is because people have complained about how many sequels they've made recently

like looking forward Pixar, Toy Story 4 is the only sequel Pixar has in development right now. They claim that there's a spate of original films coming up. Well right because they don't have a lot of obvious sequels they could do now. They claim that there's a spate of original films coming up. Well, right,

because they don't have a lot of obvious sequels they could do now. No. I mean, I guess they could do like Finding Marlin. I don't fucking know. I mean, honestly,

like Finding the Starfish. Doing Incredibles 3 seems more viable than any of the other ones. Well, Incredibles 3 is, it feels logic, like it feels like a movie that actually should exist because these movies feel a lot

more like there's this big story being told right whereas like right it's like if they made a Finding Dory it would be like wait the ocean we gotta find something like it's not like Finding Dory ends where you're like I can't wait to find out like where this goes no and I was one of those people who was

really angry when they announced Finding Nemo because I'm like Finding Nemo? I'm sorry when they announced Dory I was one of those people who was really angry when they announced Finding Nemo because I'm like— Finding Nemo? You mean Dory. I'm sorry. When they announced Dory, I was very angry because— Because Nemo ends. Perfect.

Great ending. And I was just like, fucking book close, put it on the shelf, done. Right. Was angry about it. Hearing it's Finding Dory is like, that just sounds like a dumb flip. Yeah. And I—there are things in that movie that drive me crazy. I think the first 30 minutes suck.

I think it's not great. I know you don't like it. I think it's gentleman's six territory like at best. I think it's like a gentleman's 7.5. That's what you think this is too? Boy, oh boy. That's no good.

All right, go on, go on. And I think Monsters University is about the same. I think the difference is the last 30 minutes of Monsters University are brilliant. Which you've never talked about on this podcast.

Never. Funny and Dory, I do go like, you know what? I think the difference is the last 30 minutes of Monsters University are brilliant. Which you've never talked about on this podcast. Finding Dory, I do go like, you know what? I think they actually found some good angles to it, and I think they came up with some things that actually deepen the first movie in an interesting way, which is the same thing I like about Monsters University. It's not super necessary, but I think they found the most interesting sequel they can make. I just can't remember anything about Finding Dory. Like, I really can't.

Sounds like you've got to have a... Oh, boy about Finding Dory. Like, I really can't. Sounds like you gotta... Oh, boy. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Take six. Sounds like you have a bit of a Dory problem there. And before we get into this movie... But do you get the joke I was making? Memory issues. Okay, now take 27. Maybe you should have the

inside-out emotions help you with that one. Because they have the memory balls. Do you remember that? Ben just bleeped that out for his sake. Right. Very close. He's holding up a card. I'm very close.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Cut all the takes. Cut it out. No, I just want to... One more Pixar question. Yes. What do you think of Cars 3?

Well, here's the thing that I find interesting. David, you too. You know where this is going to go. Now, Commissioner. Commissioner. Commissioner. Commissioner. Do I have to answer the question now that he's asked?

Will I get an infraction for answering the question? The fans are baying for him to answer this question right now. Answer the question. Cars 2 makes Cars 3 look like Cars cars one is that what it is i literally couldn't even it took me a second because i didn't want to get a red card for mangling my own joke i don't think any of us would uh would remember um i just think the big pixar problem is that uh people talk a lot about how lassiter kind of created a boys club environment there, which he literally did in terms of just not letting women rise up to higher positions of power.

But the other problem is he has his old friends that he brought with him, and he did not incubate new talent in a major way. He trusts his old guys, and right, he struggled to... But they did have, you know you know like they have that system where it's like unkrich is a co-director and he gets sort of kicked up to direct right like they do unkrich was there from toy story yeah no i understand and most of those guys didn't rise through the ranks like bob peterson who was one of the big story guys and co-directors forever developed good dinosaur got pushed off of it jan pinkavo was a similar thing i know yeah you know

and there are a lot of guys like that. There's a little sink or swim over there. Yeah. I mean, it's a Silicon Valley company. They're all these guys who have been there since like 1995. And you also have a lot of guys like, what's his name? Doug Sweetland, who is one of their best animators, who did Presto. Sure. And everyone's like, when are they going to hand him a movie?

So funny. He's been there since the beginning. When are they going to hand him a movie? Oh boy, we got to talk about Bao to hand him a movie? Oh, boy. We got to talk about Bao. We'll talk about Bao. Oh, boy. Did you see that dumpling movie?

Yeah. Yeah. We're going to talk about it. Cronenberg. No, no, no. Keep your opinion. We'll talk about it. What happens to Doug Sweetland?

I don't know. He goes over and makes storks for Warner Brothers. They let all these guys get away, and then they made shitty movies at other studios. People kind of like Storks. I guess. I don't know. Do people like? I don't remember. I tried watching it because I like Sweetland. But like they just weren't giving these people opportunities and if they did it was like congratulations

you get to make Cars 3. Like you get to inherit someone else's franchise. You know? So there is this weird factor of like they don't have new original movies being developed because pete doctor was the only guy who was still there stanton and bird felt like they kind of wanted to move on and then had to come back and like okay i guess i go back to my original franchise at pixar the movie i know i can get made with total creative freedom you know

yeah and this is kind of it feels like that movie for Bird. This is the safe rebound. Yep. He also, you know, he had said for years and years and years, because everyone's always asking, when are you going to make Incredibles 2? I don't want to make a sequel for the sake of making a sequel. Sure. I'll make it when I have a great idea. Feels like Brad Bird.

Yep. That's sort of the Bird move. Felt a little convenient that that great idea came to him right after Tomorrowland bombed. Sure. Yes. And yet, this movie does feel like he's wrestling with the Tomorrowland shit again. Yes. And yet, this movie does feel like he's wrestling with the Tomorrowland shit again.

I agree. So I do, even if it may be he had to make this movie now, I do feel like he's like, I still got all that Tomorrowland juice I want to sort out.

Tomorrowland and Crevels 2 kind of feel like two sides of the same coin for me. I agree. Oh, not in terms of quality, just in terms of ideas. This is a better movie than Tomorrowland.

Yeah, but it's... But I like Tomorrowland. Yeah, I it's... But I like Tomorrowland. Yeah, I mean, look, I re-listened to our Tomorrowland episode and was... Great ep. Even myself astonished when we got to a Gentleman's B+. Well, you know... I was like, wait, we did? I was talking to my brother about it.

Yeah. And he was like, I love the episode, but I do feel like I like the movie more than you. And I was like, no, we both like the movie. It's just if you talk about the movie, you just have to acknowledge all the shit that doesn't work about it. And yet it's such a special, weird movie that you do kind of like it. And I kind of like the fact that it's fucking broken. Yeah. In its own weird way.

Weird ass. Right. Broken robot. Right. But like listening to the episode, listening to us talk about all the problems with it i was like this movie's a disaster but then i think back to how i feel watching it and i'm like he is just such a symphonic filmmaker i remember what was the season where 30 rock was kind of shaky was it like four or five where they had like a really off season sure and i remember

nathan ray been writing this piece about it where he was like, the problem is that like 30 Rock is so well made. The cast is so good. It's well shot. The music is good that even when it's bad, it's just fucking enjoyable to watch, which also makes it more frustrating when the writing isn't there.

Right. When it feels like they're off. And like Brad Bird is kind of like that where he's just such a symphonic filmmaker that like even when Tomorrowland is like completely like,

it's like a Tesla catching on fire underneath the hood you're like but this thing looks so good it feels smooth and I'm told that it's good for the environment you know have you seen that video of like Mary McDonald's insane

but that's the thing and I feel like so I had this thing watching Incredibles 2 right and I admit I'm in the midst of filming no one should make a TV show I'm very stressed out you're all stressed out

I'm very stressed out we're going to talk about this but yeah okay so where did you see it did you see it at Diaper Cinema I didn't see it at the Diaper Cinema okay fine

saw it at the the Ewok in Times Square with the great theater now with the little desks great theater now great seats I had my love desk love that theater

love that theater I got the seat I wanted. That theater is like kind of secretly the best multiplex. It's sort of become very recently the best one. I got a perfect seat. I saw it in 2D. The crowd was a good mix of adults and families. Because it's like, well, I don't want to see a Pixar movie just with fucking kids.

But I also don't want to see a Pixar movie just with fucking grownups. Ben, of course, nailed it by seeing a Pixar movie just with fucking teenagers. Yeah, and I'm also about to turn 33 years old. Congratulations, birthday Benny. Yeah. Okay, the Ben Dooster. When this comes out. Okay.

Poet laureate at the hospital. When this comes out, it will be officially my birthday. Fart detector, meat lover. I was surrounded by high school kids. Feeling very much like aware of my own mortality. My birthday. Fart detected. Meat lover. I was surrounded by high school kids. Feeling very much like aware of my own mortality. And it just was really hard to hear like teens sort of teetering and snickering. Fuck master. Don't call him Professor Crispy.

Monks themselves. Graduated certain titles over the course of different races. It's just Kyle Bannon, Chris Van Canobie, Ben Eichamlon, Ben Seitz, anything. I was able to enjoy the movie nonetheless. Ben was the film maker. And got out of there pretty quick. But you did text us. But I was self-aware.

You texted us like going in grumpy. I can't remember exactly. I hate teenagers. Going in with a bad attitude. Bunch of teens around me. I'm so old. I felt very like weird as just an old guy by himself sitting, you know, amongst the children mr ben credible yeah

i i sat there i was like i think i've created the best circumstances yeah you're like this seems like a good vibe right and i sat there the whole time there was never a moment that made me angry the way that tomorrowland makes me angry but i will also say there was not a moment where the movie felt transcendent for me okay so i sat there the entire time being like this is good he's not fucking it up i'm waiting for it to click into that bird magic and instead the magic for me was just good filmmaker this movie's smooth but i came out of it and was just like i kind of feel like that script doesn't totally come together and it feels a little bit to me like Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

Temple of Doom? Yes. Now, Temple of Doom, I find... The Temple of Doom comes to... My problem with Temple of Doom, I think the last half hour is good. It's more the getting there is a little rocky. Like, once you're on the mine cart and shit,

like, you know... That's kind of what I... Rescuing the kids. That's what I feel about... Like, with this movie, it's like, great set pieces. Yeah, yeah. Great action.

This movie certainly doesn't have a Willie Scott. It doesn't have a short round. It doesn't have characters that make me want to pull my eyes out of my head. Seems like a weird comparison to make though.

I'm like, this is a really good filmmaker constructing really good entertainment. There are sections with ideas that I find really interesting. It sort of ends in a place that feels satisfying. Right. I don't really know what this movie amounts to.

I read you after seeing it a second time. So I'll talk about my experience. Which I want to hear. I talked about the movie. Right. Yeah. On Twitter.com. Like an idiot.

Yeah. Which is mostly just the website for feeling bad. Morons. Morons. Morons. It's a website for morons. Yeah. Prego. Moronos. Yeah. No. feeling morons moron morons what's it for morons yeah moronos um uh yeah no but so here's where all right so i saw it at a press screening i was with mother of blankies emily yoshida

congratulations and i think it was a marriage yes well that's gonna come up yeah uh yeah it was with emily and richard our two favorite guests we saw it together our mommy and our daddy exactly we saw it at the lincoln square she got married to richard lawson by the way sure i'll do it um started the lincoln square amc um not a great theater look it's certain screens are great did you see it in the dolby prime no we saw it in a bad theater like and i'm not just but like the big big theaters at the AMC are great experience. The small theaters, there's plenty of seats, but they're kind of crummy. Picture was out of focus. Just at first, bad.

I rush off. I say, hey, picture's out of focus. It's always a little weird, especially with press screenings, because they don't even really know who to bother. And they like 85% fix it. And then they fix it, but it's still a little off. I've had this, and it drives me insane. And it drives me crazy. Absolutely not. Especially because you know how meticulous Bird is.

And this is like when I walked in my screen of Phantom Thread, because I was like, I can't watch a movie about a guy being persnickety that's 5% projected wrong. It's one of those things where the whole time i'm like is it just back in focus and i'm just like in my head about this you know like so the whole time i'm a little off and i watched the movie i kind of had the same reaction as you

where i was like the action in this thing just fucking is great yeah uh and there's so many character beats and story beats i love yeah i don't really i can't add it all up um but i am just like it's like there's so many ideas yes and there's like scenes like the screen slaver like monologue things like that where i'm like whoa there's a lot going on here a lot and i get very buzzy and excited about movies like this like this star wars i really this is like a star wars level movie where i'm just like sitting there being like i hope this is good like and i'm nervous this is my most anticipated movie of the year sure my most anticipated blockbuster of the year i guess yeah um and so i always walk out and i'm just like i think i like that oh my god like

so and you texted me and you said he didn't fuck it up it's really weird it's got a lot of ideas and I went that's exciting sure sure sure he didn't phone it in was the big thing you said because I was really worried about it just being on rails and I would always prefer a movie like this that's trying for too much than a movie that's like fine just sort of

getting in and getting out exactly so then yeah this weekend I went to Emily's wedding in North Carolina, which was wonderful. And on the way back, we drove because I'm a maniac. Double humble brag. And on the way back. Who did you drive with?

My girlfriend. Humble bag triple brag? Humble bag triple brag? What the fuck? I meant to say humble brag. Can I make my case? All right. Okay. I meant to say humble brag. Can I make my case? All right, okay. I meant to say,

Ben's holding up the card like he's threatening me. I meant to say humble brag hat trick. Now, in my defense, I'm sleep deprived. I've been burning the candle at both ends.

I don't think that would have been a great joke. Spending too much time justifying jokes. Yellow card. Oh, you know he's right though. God, this is why he's the comm know he's right though god this is why he's the commish he's right this is why he's the commish and now that's a new nickname god damn it he should give us both like triple red cards you're giving him a new nickname and what if we also add

michael chickless as one of his new nicknames yeah of course the chick yeah um okay uh so on the way back driving up from nc uh-huh we stop over in like suburban dc like in virginia northern virginia and i'm like oh there's like an alamo here we went to nando's which is like my favorite chain restaurant that's only down in dc like it's big deal and right You got the chicken sandwich? UK. No, I got a half chicken, peri-peri fries, garlic bread, paronais.

I love it all, man. And we went to see at the Alamo, this, like, huge suburban Alamo. Wait a second. Wait a second. I'm sorry. Did you say Bernays?

No, something before that, Ben. Peronais. Just, I want to investigate this because this seems like a potential... It's like mayo with peri-peri spice. It's real good. Commissioner? Yes? I want to investigate this because this seems like a potential It's like mayo with peri-peri spice. It's real good. Commissioner? Yes. I want to investigate this because it seems like a potential yellow card. You said they have locations in the UK?

So many. But how would you know that? I mean, he's probably traveled there. Well, I've traveled there. It's weird that he would eat fast food during a vacation. That's true. Would he want to have higher cuisine?

Yeah. I literally make it a point to eat at Nando's as much as possible when I go back to the UK. Go back? Commissioner, permission to fall through on this? Fall through.

What do you mean go back? That would imply that's a place that I used to live. That's right. I used to live in the United Kingdom for 13 years of my life. It's never been talked about on this podcast before, but it's time to talk about it.

Yellow card. Keep your secrets. Now I want the fans to keep track of how many yellow and red cards are distributed. Comedy points are done. It's all about the cards now, baby. Now I want to point also in soccer i think it's two yellow cards is a red card and you're out so this is clearly a different system

it's a very different system there'll be other colors i don't know also i want to give ben five comedy points for the card system really good really good uh there are about 280 nandos in the uk wow there are five in america all near DC. Jeez. Okay. So I went to this gorgeous big theater, great sound, full audience, kind of like you, like good mix. It was Sunday, this Sunday. And

yeah, and then that's when I was like, okay, all right. Now I think I settled into the story. These scenes popped out of me where, you know, it always helps to see a movie too once you know what the twists are and you sort of like can think about the themes a little more. And I'll say the story. These scenes popped out of me where, you know, it always helps to see a movie too. Once you know what the twists are and you're sort of like, can think about the themes a little more. And I'll say this too. I always feel like it's rough for me to formulate my thoughts on a Pixar movie

the first time because the Pixar movies are the ones I've seen more than anything else. Yeah. So what's a Pixar movie that's like risen for you over the years? Well, Ratatouille you said. It's risen wildly for me. I mean,

at the time of its release, I would have put it maybe second to last, and now I'd put it maybe third. To last. It's gone up one. No, it's like third or fourth for me. I think of that ranking I did the other day, it was fourth or third. It's numero uno for me. Yeah, I know.

But yeah, I mean, they're constantly shifting for me, which is why I do my ranking every time there's a new one, because in the year in between, I've rewatched, like, most of them again. You know? I'm trying to find your rankings. I'm just going to sift through all the fucking retweets of misery from you. Yeah, well, I don't know if you've heard about it, but the world's bad. It's not so good.

No. World equals poo-poo, as you said on the Tomorrowland episode. Yeah. No good, very bad, don't do it. Yeah, you got Toy Story 2, Incredibles, Toy 2 incredibles toy story wally ratatouille okay top five yeah i mean that's a solid i think that's a good five i think that's a gentleman's five and then you got nemo monsters coco i'd give my five a gentleman's 10 see i actually like your basic order here i think bugs life should be above toy story 3 but apart from that those

are pretty close for me i you know you know guys are like Nemo, Monsters, Coco, Inside Out. That seems like that all flows nicely for me. You buy that. And then you get into. And then you're in the sequels. You think I overrank some of the second tier stuff. Oh, for sure. You would put a lot of my second tier stuff into third tier.

That's where we disagree. Well, you're only third tier is Cars 2. Correct. Your entire third tier is Cars 2. That's the big shift is you would put a lot of other movies around 2. Correct. Your entire third tier is Cars 2. That's the big shift is you would put a lot of other movies around there.

Yeah. I mean, I don't like the sequels that much. But also Cars 2 makes Cars 3 look like Cars 1. And you have Up Low,

which I'm fine with. Up is not a movie I've ever watched again. But I think Up is still interesting. Yeah, I like it. That's a movie with thematic resonance

and set pieces that are interesting. That's like my 17th favorite Pixar movie. I like more than most movies. Yeah, well. I also don't care so much about the Pixar rankings as you do. Okay. You know what I mean? I just mean like to me it's like Brad Bird made a movie.

Great. That's fine. We'll go to Turd. Rude. No. You're like, seems on level to me. All right.

So anyway, I really love the movie. I think it's great. It's probably going to be like in my top 10 of the year, maybe not quite Incredibles level where it's like a contender for like my favorite movie of the year, but really love it. Think it's great.

Think it's got all kinds of shit going on. Let's talk about it. Yeah. And I want you to offer your analysis because I don't have much at this point. I just know the things that felt like they didn't really click for me. Yeah. And I want you to offer your analysis because I don't have much at this point. I just know the things that felt like they didn't really click for me. Yeah. But this is the last piece of context

I want to throw on which just kept on jumping out to me. He says, I finally got an idea. Now that Tomorrowland's bombed, I'm going to do Incredibles 2. He starts digging into it. They've announced that and they've announced Toy Story 4. Right. He starts digging into it. They've announced that

and they've announced Toy Story 4. Yeah. And then Toy Story 4 gets pushed back. Yeah. And Incredibles

gets pulled forward a year. Yes, it does. Which is very dramatic in animation. Yeah, this was made on a tight schedule. Brad Bird gave an interview

to Kyle Buchanan saying like, I think fear is a motivating factor we lost a year we lost a year of development and people talk about why the good Pixar movies are so tight it's that they spend two years

just fucking cracking story with a full team every day not letting themselves off the hook and the ones that just feel like immaculate, zero fat clean, economic, smart storytelling are really good graduates of that program. One exception. What?

Ratatouille. Yeah. And Toy Story 2 is the same thing as well. Those are the ones where they rushed them. They probably made everyone work way too hard and violated all kinds of laws. Toy Story 2 especially they say like it kind of that one was like a year right like they did that they turned like i think ratatouille they turned it around in two years it was toy story 2 was supposed to go straight to vhs no i

know we talked about it within the next six months and laster said give me a year and i'll get it in theaters um right which is crazy but then he's like people inappropriately yeah gave too many he gave lots of lots. Lots of hugs. If you know what I mean. I hate the fucking universe. Sorry. And Jennifer Lee could hire at Disney, I think, as well. Yeah, I think both of those are good hires.

Sort of change the Frozen script and made it sister focused. That seems like a creative voice you want. Disney has done a much better job of bringing new voices in on the animation side. I want Pixar to do that. I want Pete Doctor to find interesting people and develop and nurture new voices. That's what they need to do as a studio. Ben, I don't want to hurt your feelings.

I don't know how you feel. His hand is reaching for the cards. I'm a little worried about Wreck-It Ralph 2. I saw the trailer in front of... His hand is under the desk. I can't see what he's grabbing. He's got more cards. He's still motionless, but his fingers...

Did you see the trailer for Wreck-It Ralph 2 in front of Incredible Stu? I see maybe... I think that was a nod. Yes, I saw it. How do you feel? I'm not saying it looks bad, but I'm still like, what's going on here? I still can't see his other hand. Oh, he lifted it's empty wow he just opened his hand nope it's a death card

death card you're doing tarot card readings now that seems like a major upgrade this card system is amazing this is a massive breakthrough. Am I dead now? Look at that spike in the audio. You're going to have to deal with that. I mean, in my defense, that was astonishing. It was. I think the podcast has just gotten to a whole new level. I couldn't have known to roll away from the mic on that one.

I didn't know. I thought at worst we were going to get a red card. I thought there might be like a purple card. You know, like some sort of new color. I don't know. Maybe like a get a red card. I thought there might be like a purple card, you know, like some sort of new color. I don't know. Maybe like an American Express black card. This is a lot. Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Crystal Pepsi, you know. Who's going to buy me dinner? David, I want to buy you dinner. I will say this about Wreck-It Ralph 2, which we should spoil, is going to be a Ben's choice when it comes out. Oh, yeah. Right?

We're going to do an episode on the Ralphs. I do feel a little scared by the way they have moved so fully away from video game. Right. And now it just seems like this kind of like Shrek two E sort of like reference C, but that's what the trailer is. Like,

I don't know if the movie is going to be that good emoji movie, but I'm still not super interested in seeing a good emoji movie right i guess i see your points but i love ralph and vanellope they're great movie friends and i yeah i i'm really looking forward to it because i just want more ralph yeah but great great point we do get more ralph i want more ralph yeah yeah we're gonna get him he's he's gonna wreck stuff and that's he's gonna wreck it and that's what you know going into it you're gonna at least get that they're making you a promise that they cannot break ralph may break the internet but the movie won't break that promise right no he's gonna wreck it he's

gonna wreck it you get more ralph but you're right it might be a little reference heavy and it might be kind of more like commenting on contemporary online culture in a way that might be sort of... Might be a little like, all right, I get it. See, when you said like Wreck-It Ralph 2 looks like bad Shrek,

I feel like Wreck-It Ralph 1 is like better Shrek. Oh, totally. It's a really good deconstructing... Good monster. Deconstruction of storytelling tropes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally, totally. And character roles. Yes, you're right, you're right. You know, in a really smart way.ing. Good monster. Deconstruction of storytelling tropes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.

And character roles. Yes, you're right. You're right. You know, in a really smart way. And this, I'm just like, is it just going to be them making fun of different things and culting? Man, you know who else is out in North Carolina? Katie Rich, another friend of the show.

Oh. Who lives there. Yeah. And we were talking about Shrek because Charlie's been watching some Shrek. Yeah. Although Coco's his fave right now, apparently. Good kid. And she was just saying, like, Shrek's such a piece of shit. Yeah, blows. And not only that, looks terrible. Yeah. Although Coco's his fave right now, apparently. Good kid. And she was just saying like,

Shrek's such a piece of shit. Yeah, blows. And not only that, it looks terrible. Yeah. So there you go. Also, Shrek's a fucking loser. Also, Shrek sucks.

Lives in the fucking swamp. Buy an apartment, loser. We've talked about this probably like 200 episodes ago. But do you remember when Shrek 3 came out? Or I'm sorry, Shrek the third. Shrek the third.

Came out, and they did the whole campaign with like the National Board for like children's health, where it was, Shrek the Third came out, and they did the whole campaign with the National Board for Children's Health, where it was Shrek on a skateboard with a fucking jug of milk and an apple saying, eat healthy. And it's like, no one eats more unhealthy shit. It's garbage. There's a fucking set piece in Shrek 1 that's him eating pig puce

and eyeball soup and shit. And they were like, Shrek says that's like him eating like pig puce and eyeball soup and shit. And they were like, Shrek says being in shape is fun. I'm like, first of all, he's fat. Second of all. He wears a burlap sack. Right, right. He literally Because he can't find clothes that fit him. He drinks dog diarrhea for breakfast.

Like, what are you talking about? Especially if it's a donkey. That's a filthy animal. Also, here's a pitch. Shrek it, Ralph okay so incredibles 2 blank shrek would you say you had a blank shrek to make that joke yes i did okay good uh no but before we talk about incredibles 2 what's before incredibles 2 a little film called bow yes uh let me find the name of the filmmaker because i forgot it first female pixar short director that's depressing oh boy they did have i mean obviously they had a female director on brave who they fired yeah they bravely fired but she is credited yes as a co-director uh domi she

is the director of bow now bow it was announced oh it's a movie about a mother raising a dumpling who becomes a boy everyone's like yeah i see this and i'm like i see like a little still from it and i'm like one you know i'm a little sick of the pixar cutie thing yeah i'm sick of your cutie thing i am it's true a lot of too much cute and two i was just kind of like viscerally like my food is not gonna talk to me. This was your argument. Doesn't come to life. It stays dead. And then I eat it.

Asks too many questions. Right. How much is their consciousness? I don't want to have to think about this. It's like cars times a billion. So now then we see the movie. Right. Especially because you get into the thing where it's like, okay, what's it? It is cars times a billion.

Exactly. Right. But you're like a pork dumpling. So obviously pork, it was a pig who was alive. Then it gets grounded into meat, then put in a bun, and then that gains its own consciousness? Is the pork the brain? Right. Like, how does it work?

Does it have any memories of pre-slaughter? Hey, why so literal? Yeah, well, fair enough. Then I see the movie and i'm like oh why so serious why so serious you know even though this is a pretty twisted movie yeah i have to twist it it gets a little twisted in the end there well they twist the dumpling well also true that a lot of twisting um but uh you know it's a metaphorical film about like uh an immigrant mother like having to sort of let her son go and yes grow up and he's going to be

different and might be you know a little less like sort of you know interested in the culture she wants to impart to him right you know like when this thing started working for me i was like oh this is very metaphorical but this movie does two things i do not like okay one the food comes to life nope it does happen in the movie let's. One, the food comes to life. Nope. It does happen in the movie. Let's be clear. Two, the food has a little goatee. Didn't like that.

That's sort of like 1A, right? Two, there's a scene in this eight-minute movie where she makes this fucking sumptuous banquet. This is your least favorite thing in cinema. Oh, and you see there's this great shot of her in a wok cooking a lot of meat and she makes this platter and she's like uh and he just walks out don't want to eat that, fuck off, leaves at that point I'm practically like

we need to leave the theater I need to go throw up I'm so upset that they didn't eat the food I thought it was a sweet little movie to be clear for listeners I don't like it when people don't eat food I really like the character animation on surly dumpling boy i did too i liked what a little stinker he was yeah yeah um and it came together for me at

the end i thought it was a nice little thing hey they should let her make more movies sure i mean it was obviously a very personal movie for her she's talked about it in interviews um yeah i mean look the best picture movies come out of the directors who have really personal stories also right to the twisted part she eats him she eats the fucking dumpling person and when it's like a metaphor for like her anger and her inability to let go but also she like eats the dumpling man the theater i saw he's married a woman a human woman yes i mean the trauma that she's gonna have to go through and then she's like the human woman leaves and she eats the bits crazy hey uh how's

your husband jerry doing well uh his mom ate him my mother-in-law ate my husband you're familiar with how my husband was a naughty little dumpling boy right the poochie of dumplings um oh my god oh my god in the theater i saw it's a lot to throw at anyone i think the theater i saw it and i also just want to acknowledge the fact that we are still only on the short that plays before the movie um honestly for this podcast we're doing fine who fucking cares uh the theater I saw it in when she swallows him and it's like very quick she just goes and then just like in the tummy the theater I saw it in someone

not like yelled it out like they were trying to get credit for it but just very loudly said you just ate your son uh huh uh huh good cognitive abilities on you anyway a fascinating short certainly more interesting than yes some of the shorts they've

had recently like you know movie like shorts like piper where it's like this is very pretty looks great it's like an incredible piece of animation but it's you know there's not much to it right so you know it's not a pi, but it also fails to reach the heights of, say, lava. I love my curvy volcano. It's the thing. She's not curvy, though. It's one of the many. I was talking about the guy. Yeah, the guy's fucking curvy.

Yeah. That guy's a mound. He's like Kevin James of volcanoes. He's a Shrek of volcanoes. Okay. I love you, David. Can I just say one thing before we get on to the movie? How many times have we said, can I just? Can I just say one thing before we get on to the movie? How many times have we said, can I just?

Can I just say one thing? Yeah. Because you brought up Twisted. I have a big announcement, career announcement here. Okay. I have just signed a deal with Warner Brothers, the new DC Entertainment, to do a solo Joker film. Interesting. I'm very excited.

I think it's going to be a breakthrough. It will be the fifth solo Joker film to market. Right, so we're going to have Leto, we're going to have Phoenix, and then this is on top of that. Well, yeah, I guess you'll have whoever the new Joker is established in the Matt Reeves movie.

I guess this will be the fourth new Joker to market. But it's very different because I'm sort of taking a Logan approach. It's going to be like an older Joker who's tired of making people laugh and gassing them and all of that it's him coming tired of mortality it's called richard t so maybe twitter wanted to repurpose it for the one dollar for that their stock would immediately drop to zero just like that boink it's called richard t i'm recycling Twitter jokes because we have to look after our

environment so the film is called Incredibles 2 no the no it's cleaner the the it's cleaner

Bird said when people asked him about it he was like it's not the Terminator 2 and I was like good argument good point buddy

fucking cool way to win that one yeah yeah I had to like people had to probably go home and cry after he annihilated them with that response so Cole opened this movie argument point buddy fucking cool way to win that one yeah i had to like people had to probably go home and cry after he annihilated them with that response so cold open in this movie i'm getting pumped because they're immediately bringing back one of my favorite characters the underminer

tony ride show oh that's right the cold open right right i love tony ridinger tony ridinger who tony love um who i think is voiced by brad bird son. Who in the first movie played the something amazing, I guess. Now he's older. Kid on the tricycle. Now he's older. Little interesting nod to the passage of time, Benny. Michael Bird. Michael Bird.

Yeah, he's been in... No, apparently he was the voice of Tony Reininger in The Incredibles. Really? I don't know. So then maybe it was the other Bird's son. Yeah, maybe. Okay. Anyway, Tony Reininger, he'sibles. Really? I don't know. Maybe it was the other bird's son. Yeah, maybe. Tony Reininger, he's got a turtleneck. He's so dreamy.

He's very dreamy. Do you like Tony? Yeah. He's polite. A little doofus-y. Not doofus-y, but you know. He's a nice boy. A little head in the clouds, I guess. What is his type? Dreamboat. He's like a nice boy. He's like a nice boy from high school. He's like a nice boy Little head in the clouds I guess What is his type? Dreamboat He's like a nice boy

He's like a nice boy from high school Tony Lo Where your mom's not gonna like freak out about you dating Right? Like he's like a nice boy He's like a fuck boy He's in drama Yeah

Yeah But one thing jumps out to me immediately We talked a lot about on our Incredibles episode Which was very tight, very short No tangents. Universally acclaimed. Everyone loved it. Probably our most favorited episode.

That movie, when he pitched it, they were like, we cannot afford to make this movie. And they had to come up with a lot of budget hacks for Incredibles. And one of them was, this movie has too many characters. Okay. So they developed a technology called Everyman that allowed them to have pretty much two stock eye types for a female character and a male character, and they could fill out crowd scenes with minor variations.

It would, like, auto-generate, like, okay, this nose is 20% bigger, these eyes are 20% smaller. And so outside the primary principal characters, the Incredibles, who are very meticulously so outside the primary principal characters in The Incredibles who are very meticulously designed, all the background characters in Incredibles and the one-liners, the under fives, what have you, all look kind of the same.

And Tony Ryder falls into that where he's very much the stock mold they have. He's very subtly redesigned in this opening in a way that makes it clear that it's like, oh, Brad Bird has if not a blank check a much larger check i'm sure this was it well the listed budget is 200 million dollars right it's a lot of money yeah it's like twice as much as the first one yeah and i mean it's been a

while technology's advanced he hasn't made any animated film in like a decade now right so all these things the the processing power is there. This movie looks gorgeous. Unbelievable. I mean, it really does. He also has found a way to do like, it's not cell shading, but he does some really interesting things with lighting in this movie and also design the characters at sharper angles. Yes. Especially the new characters like the Devers. But even the way he subtly redesigns the models for the Incredibles

so that the lighting hits them in a way that it looks more like shading on a 2D drawing than it does lighting in a three-dimensional film, which kind of blew me away. I think he's doing something really interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so that right away, I was just like, okay, so he's going to push this fucking technology

to the limits now. And this cold open is kind of replicating the cold open of the original Incredibles where you're cutting between these brief conversations and the black music list title cards. I was like, okay, interesting mirror here, but now it's Rick Decker, played by Jonathan Banks, because Bud Lucky died,

who was still very much alive when we recorded our other episode 15 years ago. Very old man. And he gets the final dedication at the end of the film. He's interviewing Tony Ridinger about what he witnessed, which was this Underminer attack that was teased at the end of the first movie.

And then we go into that set piece itself. Yeah, you got John Ratzenberger. He's kind of playing like, it's like a mole man, but a little more blue collar. Right. Kind of a blue collar mole man. But I always loved the Underminder ending

because, of course, that's the first issue of Fantastic Four is the mole man and his creature popping out from the middle of the street and his family coming together. Incredible is obviously very indebted to the Fantastic Four. And having them have this first big public fight feels very classical FF to me. Okay.

And this is just like fun fucking rollercoaster set piece Brad Bird. So much fun. You got Mr. Incredible trampolining

into action and getting sucked into the I really like that. And the good story would be that they tell Dash and Violet

to stay behind and watch after Jack Jack. But both of them want to be part of the fight, so they keep on sort of hot potatoing off. The bit with the stroller just rolling into view. Really good. And Dash is like,

what happened? And then it's like, oh no, it's Violet. She was pushing it, invisible, runs away. Good stuff. Violet does some cool shit. She throws like force field bolts. Yeah, and Violet's the fucking best. Violet has a lot to do in this movie. This movie does a lot right by Violet for me. i read a lot of interviews with vowel where she talked about how she records just alongside brad bird brad bird does every single voice uh-huh uh of every other character which she says he's like weirdly good at yeah but she talked about how like when

you record the movie you're like man this is like a violet movie because you don't you don't know anything else you know like that and if you watch like there's a good b-roll video that came out I think someone posted in the blankies reddit

of Bird working with like Sophia Bush and Hunter and Nelson and Jackson when they were recording and he really does

like contextualize every line for them like he comes in and works with them and he's like so this is like you have to imagine there's like a giant drill

and what you're feeling right now is before they do a series of that line over and over again. So I think he does make things very personal for each actor,

you know? Right. Which helps with their performances feeling that lived in. Yep. So this is a fun fight scene which ends in

a tremendous amount of destruction chaos and here I'm like okay so is this because I've tried to stay pretty clear not just spoilers

but major plot details of this movie going into it because I was like I'm on board I don't even really want to know what he's doing outside of the broad strokes and all that I'm hearing

is just the basic plot and I'm like but what are the themes of this movie what's the thing that Bird's digging into so now very quickly this movie's setting up this like yeah but look at the fucking public damage of this thing sure you say that you're out here protecting us but you didn't catch the guy

right people could have gotten hurt and now the city has to pay for this which is the classic superhero thing they do these things and the villains usually get away because you they're going to come back right and right like what about the aftermath that's the gag of the first incredibles too right you know the first incredibles comma t-o-o right because here's the other big gambit this movie is doing starting immediately after the first one right which so you don't have any shift of like oh here's what's happened in between the two so we can set a new table for new circumstances no he wants to make a movie about like okay if they're gonna come back how do you re-legalize superheroes like yeah this is a world that made them outlaws right right so this the movie is about like the legal question

of superheroes like should they exist because i guess the underminer fight at that point in the movie it's a couple weeks after they do that quick time jump after there's a very short time just right at the end of the movie right which we never really see the public like the larger public ripples of the syndrome fight obviously the people who are around in the immediate vicinity are like cheering and are like yay supers are back but we don't see how the news covers it we don't know you know rick decker seems optimistic about bringing them back but uh we don't know the full sort of effects of that culturally but this makes it clear that people are fighting against it the government is yes people seem mostly fine with them which i think

is a crucial part of this movie but the media is able to sell the story yeah well that's that's um winston's argument where he's like all you see is the story. Yeah, well, that's Winston's argument, where he's like, all you see is the news footage of the aftermath, and that's no good for you guys, and that's a problem. Ben, what do you think of the big under-runner fight? Great set piece. Okay. I loved his vehicle.

Mm-hmm. Big drill. It was a big drill. I love how he had it built so that then it had the escape. Yes. Designed right into it. Oh, yeah, where it tunnels away. Sort of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle-esque.

Remember how they had those drill cars? Yeah. Bebop rocks. And there's some really great pun names. Mm-hmm. This one in particular is good. I think, though, a villain that's just driven for money is such a clear thing. Yeah.

And we'll get to it later, but I don't know. To me, I'm like, oh, he's bad and he wants money. This whole weird, loftier, bigger ideas of why someone's bad, I feel like this movie- Struggles with it more than the original does. Yes, for sure. Which I think, like, you know, Becky Drysdale

in our episode was talking about how she has a hard time totally reconciling syndromes. A whole sort of stance. What he's fighting for within the story and also what he represents

to the viewer. I also, I like his jackhammer punching the Underminer. I think that's cool. Oh, yeah. That he's got his weird

mechanical hands. I fucking love it. Yeah. And his hands themselves also look like Wally's claws. Yeah. They're little claw hands. Which I don't know

if that was intentional but they're very similar sort of flat claw hand designed. I don't know. Yeah. I think Bird likes Easter egg-y stuff. I mean in the Pixar movies

always Easter egg-ing each other. Right. Love that. I couldn't totally figure out what he was trying to say with the villains here. I think he's trying to say a couple different things. Uh-huh. Well, we'll talk about, I mean, the main villains we'll talk about. Right.

The Underminer is more your classic comic book villain. And also, we so rarely get that in superhero movies these days because it's usually people who are trying to end the world in one way or another. Well, right. Which I think blows him. It's nice when you just have like petty bank thieves. Like the thing I love about Spider-Man two is that he has a bank heist sequence.

I also just like, well, yeah, Spider-Man two with, with Joel McHale and the toaster. Yeah. I love that. The best.

Well, and also, but I even like in Spider-Man two recently, how the fuck did we not nominate Rosemary Harris for best supporting actress? You love her in that movie. She's so good. We gotta do Raimi because I really want to talk about the Spider-Man movies.

Me too. But anyway, but Homecoming 2, I like that Homecoming has the sort of working class villain where he's just like, I'm trying to make some money here. Yeah, right. Which is, I mean, Spider-Man's always been the classic street hero. Yes. No, all of Spider-Man 2's problems come from the Spider-Man arc. Spider-Man 2 doesn't have any problems. I'm sorry, Spider-Man Homecoming's problems come from the Spider-Man arc. Spider-Man 2 doesn't have any problems.

I'm sorry, Spider-Man Homecoming's problems come from the Spider-Man arc or lack thereof. Sure. All its world shit, I think, is exemplary. But yes, it is nice to just watch a very clear, like, he's trying to rob the bank. They have to stop him. There are four of them. We know what their powers are. Also, his way of robbing banks is cool where he blows up the banks so they fall down and

he can just suck money from underground. Right. Like, the banks literally, like, fall down. And he has, doesn't he have that speech where he's like, I'm undermining the pillars of your, like, it's, like, great where it's, like, right, this is how, like, Stan Lee would come up with, like, a villain. Right, where it's, like, the villain's bit is part of everything he does.

His car, his morals. In a very Brad Bird way. It's like the design has to match up with his philosophy, which has to match up with his movement. You're right. It is the classic. Love it. The classic good Stan Lee villain.

The bad ones are the guy who's like, my name is the schemer. And it's like, what do you do? I scheme. Yeah. Oh, okay. I've got a great scheme. I'll kill you.

My teeth are lasers. Rub my hands together and they get hot. Oh boy. I guess that's scheming because that's a gesture i just read this old comic with the schemer where he's like i'm gonna scheme to take over the mob and i'm like you sound like a mobster he's like no the schemer anyway yeah there are some of those characters like the shark what's your power i'm ruthless like a shark okay you're, that's all criminals. I also don't sleep.

Right, yeah. Gotta keep moving. Where's the bit with the kingpin in the Stan Lee Spider-Man? Every time, like, Spider-Man is always like, ha, he's so fat, and then he punches me. He's like, I forgot, he's solid muscle. And you're like, we get it. Okay, he's strong.

But they're like, can you believe? A fat man, but not fat? Muscle! They do that every single time he shows up. But I also like that the Kingpin, it's like... He gets mad about being called fat. He's like, I'm not fat. Work hard on this body.

Dude looks pretty fat. I mean, he's a big man. I'm just bulking up. You're right. I'm building muscle mass. When Spider-Man's always like, hi, you're so fat, and then he's thinking like, he's not, though. It's all muscle.. When Spider-Man's always like, hi, you're so fat. And then he's thinking like, he's not though.

It's all muscle. Yeah. Every time. I know that the fucking Marvel TV, Marvel movies thing is a Rio Grande line that doesn't seem like it'll be crossed anytime soon because of Perlmutter Feige fights. Uh-huh. I would love to see Tom Holland fight Vincent D'Onofrio.

Hey man, let's make it happen. It would just be the fucking best. Oh, I think, isn't, D'Onofrio. Hey man, let's make it happen. It would just be the fucking best. Oh, I think... D'Onofrio's good. Isn't fucking Leo Schreiber playing Kingpin in the Spider-Verse movie? Oh, voicing him? That's what I've heard. Oh, that sounds cool. Yeah. That movie looks really

interesting. Yeah. Like visually. Remember when I said that six months ago and you were like, eh, and I was like, looks pretty interesting. I think I wasn't that dismissive i'm more dismissive of the title well yeah it should just be called spider-man all right anyway so the big fight happens they get in trouble they're shipped away as usual in their witness protection program our old friend decker and he makes it clear like look they're shutting the whole thing down he has this line politicians don't understand people who do good things that makes them nervous and in general he's really nice with them yes like where he's like i

love you guys but you know yeah it's like they just don't want to pay for this shit anymore yeah go on what were you guys which gets into something culturally now where i feel like this entire not to get into this fucking thing but like the social justice warrior thing is so insane to me because it comes out of this fight of like wait if you're trying to like stand up for people who are being persecuted there clearly must be something in it for you right

like when people derisively call someone a social justice warrior it's like you're just trying to get the credit for doing the good thing and it's like why are you so skeptical to get the credit for doing the good thing. And it's like, why are you so skeptical of anyone trying to do a good thing? And also, it kind of doesn't matter as long as you're doing a good thing.

Yeah, no. Like, better to do a good thing for the wrong reasons than a bad thing for the right reasons, you know? But at this point, the movie's kind of dealing in interesting kind of murky territory where it's like this public relations fight, the imagery, the sort of uh i don't the optics if you will and the incredibles are coming from this place where

it's like they don't have a big ideology they love being superheroes it's their it's their like core being is just to do this there's a place of sort of automatic empathy for them and justice where it's like they don't have a thing they're standing for. It's just like, Oh, danger. Let's stop that. Right.

I mean, that's one thing Winston is sort of pointing out to them, but yeah, where he's like, you know, like it's good to manicure this a little bit, you know, streamline what your,

your, your, your plan of action. Right. But, um, the movie is, uh,

being made so many years after the first one. And there's been all these superhero movies since. So here's the core core of your little bit i do think bird's been watching that and thinking about it like because i think he's a guy who thinks about this shit yeah and the movie is like is is there a place for these people in our society and what is their place and is that a good thing or a bad thing and right when when they get to the hotel, they have this big fight, which is essentially like, should we break the law? Right.

In order to like fix the law. Like, is it worthwhile to do that? This is the angle of your take that I find the most interesting, which is why do we keep on asking for this from our pop culture? Right. Why have we been on this kick for 16 years

that we have not stopped? In 2008, everyone thought this is the end of an era, and then fucking Iron Man and Dark Knight came out. I feel like at the end of last year, everyone went, we must be hitting peak superhero, and we're now going to get the three highest grossing superhero movies. I mean, really, there's a good chance that Incredibles ends up the third highest grossing superhero movie of all time behind.

You're right. I didn't even think about it. You're right. Behind Black Panther and Infinity War. Right. You know? Which came out this year. Right. Which are all going to end up in the top ten in history. So there's a question about Ben is... Looks like he's having an existential crisis. But there's a question. Why do we ask for this?

What are we getting from this? Is this helping us or hurting us to be constantly investing our sort of imagination into these pillars of moral integrity who are also so wildly superpowered that we just go like, you deal with it. Yeah, and also like, what are the risks inherent in that? It's funny because I do feel like Incredibles 1

is this movie that's like, they should be allowed to be superheroes because that's what they are. And that's where people see this argument of like, you know, this sort of like super elitist, whatever, you know,

where it's like dash should be able to run as fast as he can. Cause that's what he can do. So like, why would you restrain him? Right? Like that's the sort of free enterprise kind of thing. And then this movie is a little more like you can't deny that, but also,

you know, there's a lot of risk there yeah uh because this is a movie about superheroes being used for evil and this is a movie about morality and how people who don't have any morality are the most frightening like dangerous people of all yeah and it's a movie that ends with like the villains saying like we would have been friends if it weren't for your like code of ethics yeah yeah and it's a movie that ends with like the villain saying like we would have been friends if it weren't for your like code of ethics yeah yeah and missing and elastigirl's like yeah i mean sorry like that's a crucial i mean there's i agree the evelyn helen is the you know that's

like the crucial relationship look i like all their scenes together but i came out of the movie being like i still don't understand why she did this what do you mean she hates superheroes I don't understand this being her plan what you mean the hypnotism we will get to it so now they're relocated to a shitty motel

which is nice bird and I feel like this movie really doubles down on the 60s totally it's a little later maybe but it makes it very clear that well not because i mean it's like 30 seconds i know you know what i'm saying you know like the stuff like the new math like yes you know he's talking about like right yeah but but i feel like this makes it clear like this isn't just like madman house an aesthetic choice right we're clearly like setting this

movie in like walt disney's Tomorrowland Future version of the 60s with the water features but the TV being black and white the things that are broadcast this is 100% the 1960s just an alternate version they get to this motel and

they're all sort of trying to like figure out like where do we stand here and having this thing they're explaining to the kids about like you know can we break the law right um which is like a thing i see coming up now with like all the the sort of uh immigration nightmares that are happening right now with people being like the only way to really fight this is to actually be right to break the law. Yeah. Right. Right.

Right. And in the first movie, Helen is pretty steadfast. It's like, well, superhero's illegal. Right. That's over. Right. And Bob's the one who's like secretly doing the police scanner. But as I saw someone tweet this week, like Harriet Tubman was breaking the law.

No, people... Of course. I'm not... Right. No, no, no. We're on the same page here. Slavery, bad. But, um, no, but the argument that, like, Harriet should be on the 20.

The people who are canonized, right, as being, like, our big trailblazers in human rights were all breaking the law at the time. Sure, absolutely. Who then were able to remake the law by their actions. And so that's one of now, let's add that onto the pile of

arguments that the movie is sort of stewing on sure but right i mean like that that to me is a core argument of should superheroes be legal where it's like bob is basically he keeps saying like the kids need to be able to choose like he's saying like again like kind of like we are a thing like we can't just be ignored now helen seems a lot more rational about it well she's the rational right but bob has so much like self-worth issues wrapped up in it you know what i mean i feel like helen's more chill is like i have a family that i love like i'm doing okay she was also fine leaving it behind yeah i think she gets a rush out of doing it again yes but bob is very clear he's so miserable at the beginning of incredibles one

and then he gets such a pep in his step from like getting reignited by the mirage syndrome stuff right whereas his arc in this movie is him realizing that he gets so much out of being a dad like that's that's his arc in the movie right which i mean it's a i mean bird just flipped the arcs like it's a classic sequel right yeah but it's it's a career thing where it's like he needs to find a way to not only find value in his career because at the beginning of this movie like they're like elastic girl you'd go do it and he's like what but i'm the yeah i'm the bacon getter you know because she even says she's like well why don't you do that and i'll get that he's like no no i'll do it like you know he he's going to have to go back to another insurance company or

whatever. Right. But he won't like allow her to like supplant him in this sort of hierarchy. You know, I had like a vaguely terrifying moment the other day where I had to go, uh, get out of jury duty. Oh,

um, or get it postponed rather until I'm done taking it up. Yeah. And, uh, I had to fill out one of those forms where you know all the information but then also said like occupation and then it said hobbies okay and i was like occupation actor i guess and then it was like right uh hobbies and i was like fuck i think i don't have hobbies anymore this form just gave you an existential it really did and I was like everything buying toys no but I was like everything toys

but this is what's terrifying for me is I was like everything I would have listed as a hobby 10 years ago is now my career outside of that so like what like seeing movies what do you mean like oh like a comedy movies you know do you mean? Oh, like a comedy, re-seeing movies, you know, like whatever it was. Hosting badass podcasts. Right. Right. These things that I was like, I find this fun, you know? And then I have-

Oh, that sounds good. Your job is the thing you find fun. But I also was like, I have no separation from like my professional life and the things that like make me happy. You can't just go home and say like say let me just do this to unwind. Right. And I've been talking to you about production stress, the par for the course

just like, you know, it's making a TV show. And part of the problem is I am completely incapable of just hanging my hat up at the end of the day and being like, I gotta go to sleep. I had this moment where I was like i need to find like i need to get into like fucking making paper or like some sort of like you need like to join a choir you just need to do something just that's

other right right um because like i i have nothing my entire sports my entire sense of self-worth is tied up in this thing but also like if i have struggles with that thing right then it has the ability to completely work life balance right that's what you're talking about right i don't have children you can have a couple i i'm like let's get on that you know uh when everyone sees me they're like that seems like someone who is so in control of his own life he should have direct kids screaming out for him so good at waking up. Going to the bathroom and stuff. He's just great at it.

The Bob stuff was kind of hitting me hard there because it's like, especially like if your career is going well, you know, look, I relate to Bob. I'm a superhero. It's true. It's like,

then the moments where you don't have that thing, am I getting a card for that? You're close. Okay. God knows what card it's going to be. The moments when you don't have that thing, am I getting a card for that? You're close. Okay. God knows what card it's going to be. The moments when you don't have that thing get really bleak. Yeah.

So, our old friend Lucious. To talk about Bob's arc, like, right, it's about him accepting the value he can draw from his family and from being a dad. Right.

Lucious shows up. That can be as satisfying. Absolutely.cius shows up that can be the as satisfying but absolutely like yeah parenting when done properly can be a heroic absolutely um and so yeah uh what's his name uh lucius shows up looking hotter than ever looking a real snack looks oh i get so that's the worst thing about our incredibles episode the universally acclaimed episode is that you not you really uh uh be really Becky does it more but you kind of like you know you have fun get a little where she's like you have a crush on Lucius yeah

yeah he's hot it's a hot guy so cool he's hot so hot he's cool right he's ice someone said that that little tangent in our episode caused them to apply what is it rule 34 sure sure, look up

the sexy Frozone. A lot of Frozone porn out there. Stunned. Stunned to learn this. Frozen rules! You know, Usher plays the limo driver who says, I'm your biggest fan. Really? And that's because Usher loves Frozen. I'm almost certain it's Usher. I'm going to look it up. That's funny.

Yes! Usher. It's just weird that... frozone right outside of like all the um you know elastigirl uh porn that anthony lane has commissioned himself boing he literally is a boing joke that's what it is yeah check out the new yorker you know the new yorker the most sophisticated publication around what's up you know the new yer? You've heard of the New Yorker. Elitist, man with a monocle looking at a butterfly. Right?

Yeah. Funny cartoons. Yeah. But not so much laugh out loud funny as how wry funny, right? Their review of The Incredibles includes a paragraph

about how attractive their head and most senior critic was to Elastigirl ending with a joke about the popcorn on your lap being flung up into the air.

No. Because you're boner. Red card to him. Yeah. But talking about the scene where Elastigirl and Evelyn chat to each other which I do

think is you know there is like a sort of tension to that scene that's not quite boing I think there is some interesting tension she also implies that every time two women talk on screen he's like why isn't this

rated NC-17 what is that how do they get away with this oh boy oh boy alright right oh boy oh yoing i think you mean yeah um so lucius looking fucking hot yeah he's like come with me so during our big adventure this guy winston devere who we see in this great action sequence played by odinkirk. Also looking at Snack. Yeah, and also looking a lot like Bob Odenkirk. Oh, who's a hottie.

Number one hottie. Gave me his card and he wants to talk to us about super stuff. And so they put on their costumes. Put on the trench coats. I love that. I love them sans mask. Clearly wearing superhero unitards underneath trench coats. There's such a cool meshing of styles there

um i i also like um you know the first movie has that sort of it's playing on that vibe of bob's having an affair right like with mirage and it ends with him hugging her and the last girl's all mad and like it's got the she listens in on the phone and she and this is like the the married couple have kind of rekindled and like they're putting on their coats and they'd be like bye kids uh we're going out for a walk watch watch the baby all right see you later you know pizza on the table right are are they going to like a key party yeah right yeah no? Are they going to fuck Frozone? Because Frozone shows up and look at it. And David's there like, they better fuck Frozone.

And Anthony Lane's like, bling. I mean, everyone knows that Elastigirl is so hot, but fucking relax. They're all, I mean, look. Now, Elastigirl's like very, very, very cool. I can't say that because she's my mother, but. Right. Yeah. Holly Hunter. Did you have that little teaser in front?

Yeah, which was really weird at AMC theaters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Where it's like. Where they're like, making a movie like this is really hard. Like, it takes a lot of work. And we're like, okay. Brag about it. I'll tell you what. I really hard like it takes a lot of work and we're like okay

we'll brag about it I'll tell you why I want that in front of like Den of Thieves you know like in front of like the stupidest movie ever before you make fun of us just know like

it's the look I mean it's four months of my life on this it's the death bed the bed that eats people bit where it's like someone had to wake up

at 4am and toast the bagels you know this is a lot of people working a lot. I'll tell you why I didn't like it. Felt like they were stealing my bit. What are you saying? No one should ever make an animated movie?

They were stealing your bit. It's also like, fucking calm down. We know it took 14 years. We paid. It's okay. That's what the money is for. To quote the great John Draper. That's like one of the... Oh, I talked about Sky High on Masterpiece Theater recently. Joined the Six Timers Club.

Are you the only member of that club? No. Really? Who else is in there? I'm forgetting now. I'll get to it. But I threw in my old Sky High Blu-ray, and it had like three... Because that was like first Sky High Blu-ray, and it had like three, because that was like first wave of Blu-rays,

three anti-piracy ads at the top of the Blu-ray, and I'm like, I just bought it. You're right. I know. You wouldn't steal a car. In 2008, I'm sure I paid $35 for Sky High on Blu-ray lacking any bonus features. Remember that old Mindy Kaling stand-up bit about that yeah

where it's like i might steal a car if i just had to click a button and then it was free and no one ever bothered if i could touch a car and it would immediately reproduce into another identical car and the person who owned that car in the first place still got to keep their car um i was like this is the last person you should be telling like please watch our movie i'm like we're here um yes we're here winston devere yes here's his tragic story his dad was this captain captain of industry type love superheroes right so like a right he's sort of like a pre-war you know what i mean like a 40s guy like who's just like America. Yeah. Loves heroes because they're heroic. He loves Gazerbeam.

Yeah. Nice little Gazerbeam shout out. Gamma Jack. He had phones. Yeah. Right? He's like a classic golden age. He financed them so much.

Right. They had a direct line to Gazerbeam and the flame one. Why am I forgetting his name? Like flame-oid. Dyna Guy? No, not Dyna Guy. Dyna Guy is like a thunderbolt in his head. Okay.

Yeah. Okay, he has his name. It is a dumb name. Yeah, okay. Right? Like, he's like a golden age of comics guy, right? Yes, yes. Where it's just like, it's great that there are superheroes, because what they do is they

fight crime. Crime is bad. Right. That's sort of like the whole take of the golden age superhero. Yes. Yeah. If you're a criminal, they fight you at the end. And also, I think the idea that they, people, that they're good, upstanding, sort

of exemplars. Good Americans who wear masks and won't reveal who they are. Yeah. So this stuff, I get to this chunk of the movie. Right. And then he died after the superheroes are banned. He gets robbed. He picks up the phone.

No one's there. He gets shot. Right. And then he died after the superheroes are banned. He gets robbed. He picks up the phone. No one's there. He gets shot. And I get like a little worried at this moment. Just because I'm like. You're thinking like is Brad like grinding an axe? No, I get worried where I'm like, okay, he's really showing the work here. Oh, sure.

Yeah, I agree. The first. This is such a clear sequence. It's so much exposition that's so clearly like i'm saying up the conflict of this movie i'm saying up these two characters in their history their opposite viewpoints on what happened because he has that moment where he's like i don't agree with you but we can't talk about it right now right and it's like it's not like i can fully solve the equation here but it's like i got it down to three options yeah like this movie is giving me such a clear tia and it's not like the syndrome thing is a big twist in the first Incredibles,

but it's also like the way Buddy's introduced feels pretty organic. It contributes interesting tension to that opening set piece. Then he's gone for a while, you know, there are other things going on. You're caught up in Bob's like sort of, and then reintroduce now. And this just feels like, you know, it's, it's, it, it, I just feel, it doesn't feel sweaty to me,

but I'm seeing some perspiration. Well, I mean like, can we just get this all out there? That's, that's more what I think there's birds like, okay, we're going to have the one scene that just gets it done.

Right. And we're just going to have to bite that scene. I always get bummed out when that happens. And I can handle it as long as it's one scene, especially someone like Brad Bird, who's usually so good at finding ways to very efficiently work that stuff into actual action. Well, in the first... Or comedy or drama,

rather than having someone explain shit. In the first Incredibles, he does so much of that with the documentary talking head stuff. Yeah, right. Which is sweaty and it's all right, but you can also get away with, you know what I mean? And this time he doesn't do that. He does this.

Fine. Okay. And also when like Syndrome is finally like explaining everything to him, monologuing to him. He also A, calls out the fact that he's monologuing and B, is fighting him while it's going on. Yes. Like he's physically beating this guy up while he's explaining why he wanted to get revenge. But yeah, Syndrome does have that moment where he's like, you got me monologuing. So it's doing the kind of like meta joke about him info dumping, you but they yeah you know yeah there's always going to be cute ways around this

right but superhero movie people explain their point i'm like this feels a little less elegant than what brad bird usually does well you're a little less elegant agreed all right so winston's like i love superheroes they were to save my dad. That's why I love superheroes. And Evelyn Dever, evil Endeavor. Great name. Yeah, is like, well, I never much liked them. Well, she comes in and she first presents as this sort of like wacky inventor because she's got all her like papers and stuff.

And she seems kind of hungover. She's played by Catherine Keener, who has the greatest voice. Just the greatest voice. Yeah. I mean, Bird casts so well voice-wise in the Incredibles movies particularly. Anytime Catherine Keener's in a movie

and then now we've crossed a new threshold with just her voice being in a movie. I'm just like, this is the coolest lady alive. This is the number one coolest lady alive. But you know who else is in this movie? Holly Hunter, the other coolest lady alive. It's crazy. With such distinctive voices and such opposite

voices. And then Sarah Vowell. Who's the cool? And then Sophia Bush, our third favorite. Sure. Fourth. I'm so sleep deprived. I mean, I like Void. Void's cool. Void's cool. I wish Void feels like a character that was a little

more weaved into the story at large in a previous draft. I don't need more void. But we'll get to that. I'm not saying I need more of it, but it just feels like there was a version where she was more integral to the plot rather than just being someone who gets brainwashed later. Sure. Yeah. Maybe Incredible 3, maybe.

I don't know. Right. Oh, because this is the other thing I want to say. because this is the other thing I want to say in terms of not just Brad Bird saying like look I like the pressure of losing a year knowing I had less time to crack everything he said I finally cracked Incredibles 2

I had two really strong ideas for what I want to do with the film we started working and about a year in I realized it didn't work so after waiting like 14 years going like I'm not gonna do it until i have it he felt like he had it he started working on it went like actually breaking this out as a story it doesn't function and started rewriting the whole thing then and there when the movie

was already up on rails had been announced licensing deals were in place what have you and so i see a little bit of that in the movie maybe i would imagine he just simplified like that he makes it sound like he did a big change sure okay well what was it i also know give me the deets bird he said um like i think up until like a year and a half ago screenslaver was not a part of the movie at all the movie was about artificial intelligence it sounds wild yeah which that sounds like an incredibles 3 idea brad yeah let's let's wait on the i don't know if that means the devvers weren't in it at all but it sounds like certainly there was no physical manifestation of a villain like that yeah the film was more about technology

run amok in in a very different movie right right so which makes me think he literally threw almost everything out well it sounds like the only thing that kept, that stayed in place was the Bob Helen shift. He said he had two big concepts. It was the Bob Helen shift, Elastigirl taking the lead, Bob having to deal with the family, and then his big concept for what the superhero plotline

was. And it sounds like he threw all of that out about a year into development. Well, what then became a three-year process rather than a four-year i don't know what happened but if i were talking to him i would say i feel like what he settled on was the right thing to settle on which is like you're making a movie about superhero legalization so make the movie about the argument for the role of superheroes in society if you want to make an ai run amok movie brad i'm ready i want i want your ai run amok movie Brad I'm ready I want I want your AI

run amok movie whatever the fuck wackiness that's gonna be but also maybe it was a movie about superhero legalization at that point I mean this is just

speculation I'm just saying I figured it out like you know the story like he may have literally just made it smaller because the other thing

where I know why he wants to not jump in time he wants the baby like you know and so and like do great baby stuff so he did the short Jack Jack Attack which was on not jump in time. He wants the baby. Right. Like, you know, and so,

do great baby stuff. So he did the short Jack-Jack Attack, which was on the original DVD release of the film. I think it got nominated for an Oscar, maybe. Maybe.

Which is just the stuff we didn't see with Jack-Jack and the babysitter, which is really fun. And I think that stuck in his brain of, oh, the family still doesn't know

that Jack-Jack has powers. Yeah. The syndrome knows. The babysitter knows. He intentionally makes it because in his brain of, oh, the family still doesn't know that Jack-Jack has powers. Syndrome knows. The babysitter knows. He intentionally makes it because in the final thing, when he shows off to Syndrome, he's too far up. Right. And I think that was the one comedic device he was like 100% passionate about towards making a sequel was...

It did not get an Academy Award nomination. Bummer. Mike's New Car did. Maybe you can get that one. Yeah. Go on, sorry. Mike's New Car, Fox. Sure. new car did. Maybe you can get that one. Yeah. Yeah, go on, sorry. Which, Mike's new car, Fox. Sure.

Great car. Yeah. That feels like that was always in place. And then he reverse engineered from there, oh, it'd be fun if Bob was the one who had to take care of him. Yeah, which again, just seems logical. Right. And so that means it has to take place in the same time period.

You don't want Jack-Jack any older, you don't want them having discovered the powers yet, all of that. You can see a version of this movie. A lot of people would have just gone, well, it gets legalized. There's no movie about them fighting legalization. Yes, totally. You could just do the second movie. They win. They beat Syndrome. Court of public opinion

convinces the politicians. And that's part of my argument. And I don't know about development. I'm just talking about the movie I see. And that feeds to me into the argument I'm making about like this is a movie that's about superheroes and we're there's so many superheroes in our culture like it's about superheroes in our culture right because that's what winston is like superheroes belong in our

culture they're good for people they're a force for good yeah and evelyn eventually you know when she's revealed because at first she's more just like i'm the tech lady yeah uh is like superheroes are convenience and they don't like you know they don't let people help themselves right like you know that's that's and like my dad's dying because he's like well blah will save me instead of like yeah dealing with anything himself right so her argument is my father invested too much in this idea of superheroes. And it's just, it's like a gossamer. It's a fantasy. It's a gossamer. It's like, she says convenient. There's that big, the big moment in the movie

is that sexy, Anthony Lane's boner moment. Their big convo about cynicism versus idealism, which we'll get to. Right, but first they make this pitch where it's like Elastigirl is going to be the hero. I at this moment in the film go, okay, so they're both in on it. They're both going to be the bad guys.

Yeah. Right? There's some weird, this is a ball and shell game that they're doing. In the same way, a thing I love about Syndrome in the first movie is he's like, I want to kill all the superheroes so that I can look like a superhero because I'll be the only one who can solve my own problem. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wants, right.

That's his concept is it'll all be staged because then I look great. He wants to win over the public. Right. And so he has to create a certain stage. I mean, he's bad at it.

He's not good at it like for even a second because his wristband gets knocked off and it all goes wrong. So then this movie's getting so literal about the sort of like branding PR relations of the whole thing

where I'm like- Yes, yes, yes. Superheroes are being sold to us. They are brands. And here they are, they're a big company. They're kind of creepy like Elon Musk type.

There's this weird, right, industrial, like they're like, what are they, like a telecommunications company? Right, but it's like, no, but they want to help the public. Right, and you're like,

okay, but it seems like a lot of decisions are just being made by two people. And Odin Kirk, who has always had a dark side, is playing so positive, so cheery, so boisterous in this that I'm like, they have to be setting up a heel turn. Yeah. Evelyn seems more jaded. I was like, maybe she's the misdirect.

Uh-huh. My inclination is both of them are in on it, and somehow bringing superheroes to the forefront is going to help their bottom line some cause that they have right I get that the second viewing is good for that because Winston's character makes much more sense

or well Winston's character felt deeper to me on the second viewing because he felt a little thin for me on the first viewing and I love Odin he's so it's like Bird is not making, like, Bird is criticizing his sweetness almost. It's like, I like what I like. This stuff makes me feel good.

Yeah, like, because he has that monologue where he's like, you know, smell the flowers. Like, you know, he's a genuinely optimistic guy, and that is kind of his undoing. Like, he can't see the bad side of anything and Evelyn talks about how he's like the great salesman that's a question of like who has more value the salesman or the inventor that's the part of their sort of optimistic conversation right which made me

feel like okay he seems like he's devious in some way obviously salesman we always think of as being slippery at the very least kind of overly slick the Brad Bird flip but do you think the notion is that like he's such a good salesman just because he is kind of that infectious? Exactly, right. He believes in it. He's Billy Mitchell or whatever.

He's just this guy who sells the passion for the thing. There is no dark side to him. No. There's a blind spot to him. Blind spot. And that's what Screenslaver slash Evelyn is thinking, you know, where she says like people believe what they're sold and that's a weakness and like superheroes are the ultimate version of that where it's just like here's a person who's also your problems and it's like over and over again in the movie.

Like there's this I wrote some things down like there's like this ad for like so easy even the man can do it like as he's like pulling something out of an oven like right in the middle of a crucial scene like bird keeps dropping all this shit in where he's like... Ordering on RoboCop. Yeah. Yes, totally. I'm trying to... There was another thing.

You know, they're both selling supers, right? Uh-huh. But they both have these sort of blinkered points of view. And her blinkered point of view is like making them these like robotic monsters at the end of the movie. He's trying to get into something about people not wanting to do the work anymore.

Which feels like Brad Bird. Do you know what's the thing I've been thinking about? He's such an individualist. Even if he claims, like, bollocks, nonsense. I've just made six movies about the power of the individual. But, you know, no, of course not. I think I've been thinking about a lot

recently. Which I think ties no, of course not. I think I've been thinking about a lot recently. Which I think ties into both of these movies. Because there's been so much conversation about toxic fandom recently. And the first movie has that. Right. Because even in the time between... That's what Syndrome is. He's a toxic fan. I'm your biggest fan.

Which is more clear now than when we recorded that episode in February. It's true. I feel like that's a shift of a a couple months where it's just like. Because it's how possessive he is of his fandom. And he obviously wasn't commenting on a thing that was as culturally obvious at the time, but he was commenting on an ideology that's tied into this sort of thing. And, you know, we always act like everything's the worst right now, but, you know, shit was bad then, too.

There were dicks back then, too. But what's the root of that thing is, I think Joe Rowe did a Twitter thread about this recently. Joanna Robinson. Has been doing some great work about fandom. Because she is a big fan herself. She's someone whose career is based on her fandom of certain things. That is true.

And also she has to deal with fan communities. Yes. But she was talking about, I believe it was her, and I'm not misattributing. It was either her or Anthony Laney. Yeah, one of the two. She was saying, did she talk about like,

popcorn are going everywhere? Yeah, exactly. Projectile popcorn. She was saying that the thing that gets kind of dangerous is this idea of fandom being part of your identity. Yes, yes.

And I see the way that people talk about fandom now oh i'm new to this fandom right when people are like i just started watching the flash it's not that anymore it's i'm new to the flash fandom right and it's like i have joined this church what are the things we believe in what are our what are my options who's my ship here like who's my favorite character who's my my least favorite character? Right, and it becomes part of your identity in a way that I think gets very dangerous. All three of us love shit, right? We are people who are fanatical about our things. We have our big, like, things that we fucking love and spend a lot of time looking into and thinking about and working on and working around and all of that.

But even at my most obsessive moments, I never felt that sort of like this thing i love dictates what kind of person i need to be that is it's the opposite it's like these things i love reflect on things in my personality which i'm seeing in these other things that i like not i need to reflect myself reflect the fandom in what you're what I'm saying. I do get what you're saying. And I feel like that's a thing this movie is kind of grappling with is this idea of like superheroes make it very easy to be like, oh, I'm a pro superhero person. Let's have superheroes. I like the costumes. All that's great.

Theme songs. And also they'll fix everything. I don't have to think about anything ever again. Right. Which like you see that which was her dad's undoing but you even see that with political ideology now where it's not just like I like this candidate it's like I am so

deep in on this person that anything he does must be the right thing to do or she or right which I think is where like toxic Bernie bros come from it's like people got so into this idea that like no this is the only honest one right right yeah that then when weird shit started happening it's like then i have to attack the other candidates right it becomes very negative right yeah because it becomes so personal some people like that about bernie

sanders and some people like that about the flash like you're saying right and evelyn dever it feels like at the beginning is just kind of like dismissive of like of don't buy into this fucking thing. We just need it. She talks about convenience and the myth of it. And then that's what Screenslaver is monologuing about in his big monologue. You watch

game shows. All that stuff. You don't talk, you watch talk shows. But I also he's also talking about a sort of lack of engagement, which I guess you don't talk, you watch talk shows. But I also, he's also talking about a sort of lack of engagement, which I guess is not doing the work. It's wanting to live a more removed life.

Like the blinders on, right? But what I don't understand, and let's jump ahead towards the, you know, not cover this stuff in between. No, but we won't. This is my question to you and I don't say this

and I'm like this is why the movie's bad. I'm like I haven't cracked this yet. Oh my god. Swear to me. Oh hey Bats. Fuck.

Did your own bit. Yeah. This is a thing I couldn't crack watching. And I say this in the least cinema sins. Oh sure.

Okay. Explain to me why this isn't a glaring hole there's a problem with her plan that you can't think around I don't understand why this is the course of action she takes is letting her brother get the superhero things off the ground creating a straw man hypnotizing people in order

to she wants the superheroes on the biggest stage possible right which is this big bill she wants to humiliate them the most public way it's not really humiliation she's making them frightening like it's a narrative in and of itself right like it's because like they give these monologues where they're like you know for too long you have been mistreated us and right like it's a whole thing. The level of manipulation, though, it's so much. That's the thing.

There's so many steps. But that's her villain power, right? I mean, that's what she is. She's like an ad exec. But here's my question to you, okay? Yes. They're already illegal. Right.

At the moment the movie's starting, it's like, fuck, I guess we can't do this anymore. And all the superheroes are under threat of retirement. The only thing that gives them the courage to think they can do it again is Winston. No, it's not Winston. People are already into it.

They just rescued from like all the shit, the syndrome and the undermine. And then immediately we're like shut down. Well, they're shut down by the government. Right. But like, all right. So again, one thing I want to put like, so Bud Lucky has that crucial line to

me about politicians don't understand people who do good things. It's not Bud Lucky, it's Jonathan Banks. Bud Lucky's the dead guy. Decker. He's dead. Yeah. R.I.P. Rick Decker. More like Rip Decker. Okay. Come on. Ben's holding up a yellow. Shut the card. He's holding up a yellow card. He's got the fucking card out.

And then, not long long after you have this part Where they're in the car Going to Winston's fancy house And you hear over the radio People saying like Americans trust like Congress Less than they trust a monkey with a You know dart or whatever

Like a monkey throwing darts But the end of the movie They save the day They arrest Evelyn dart or whatever right like a monkey throwing darts but the end of the movie they they save the day yeah right they arrest uh evelyn yeah what happens what happens what's the reaction to evelyn being arrested from the film's best character violet says she's just she's rich she's just gonna buy her way out of prison immediately that is like this is a movie about like total distrust in like institutions, right? And he's peppering it in

right from the start. Pepper, pepper, pepper. It's good shit. But here's my thing. Yeah. I... And again, politically, I'm like,

I don't know, Brad. Chill out. But I'm just saying, like, as his vision... A lot of ideas. A lot of ideas. Like, there are points in this movie...

First time I saw it, I was like, a lot of ideas. Second time I saw it, I was like, oh, this is unified. It makes much more sense to me. This doesn't kill the movie for me. But there are points in this movie first time i saw it i was like a lot of ideas second time i saw it i was like oh this is unified it makes much more sense to me this doesn't kill the movie for me but there are points in the movie where i just felt a little bit of the birdman thing where it's like oh so characters are just gonna speak in op-ed headlines sure and you're just gonna pepper in a lot of large notions that you're not necessarily that's a fair criticism

i mean he's definitely for me that's what drives me insane about that movie where it's just one series. But Birdman's just monologues too. It's just like, ugh. And none of the characters are characters. None of the characters

are characters. It's just like, so this is Uproxx fighting with... Birdman is so bad. God. Name a character from Birdman,

apart from Birdman, who's great, obviously. Mean critic. Mean critic. Stoned teenager. That's great, obviously. Mean critic. Mean critic. Stoned teenager. That's so clearly the most embarrassing

best picture winner of the last 15 years that when people say otherwise it drives me insane. Yeah. I think Birdman's more embarrassing than Crash. Crash is pretty bad.

I think... Crash is like a stain on the nation. I agree. Birdman's just like a bad movie. I find Birdman so much more arrogant

than Crash, though. Crash is just like, this is so fucking naive. What was the one was the old movie? Oh, the artist? Yeah. That one's not great either. That's just like a fucking Gentleman's Five. You're just like, okay, yeah.

The artist, you're like, yeah, I mean, I didn't, right. I wasn't mad. That's what I'm saying. The artist, you're like, okay. That's what I'm't, right. I wasn't mad. That's what I'm saying. The artist, you're like, okay, fine. That's what I'm saying. Birdman. Good dog, I guess. I agree.

I know I'm on board with you basically, but like, at least when I watch Birdman, not that I'm going to. Yeah. I'll be like, you know, it's well made. I like the score. The Crash isn't even well made. Like Crash is just bad. It's like a TV movie.

It's just crazy. It is crazy that Crash like almost went straight to DVD and then ended up winning up winning this picture and like both fates are plausible yes right okay yeah um what i was going to say was uh i do not sit there in the theater looking for plot holes or logic sure no i'm saying i hate that kind of movie watch no i know you do know you do. I know. I buy your argument. When she's doing this, you're just like, why is this her play? Here's what I like out of movies, and I think Pixar especially has a very good track record of this. She's usually very good at lining everything up very smoothly. I like when they answer my questions before I've even asked them. Sure.

That's always a satisfying feeling. Right. In any movie. When it's just like, oh, so now you've explained why that's not a possibility. Oh, I get it. Why this is the one way this movie has to go. You're right. Where everything feels very inevitable and clean.

She has such an exaggerated power, which is that she can hypnotize people. Right. And there's so many directions to point that in. And also, outside of that, you go, she's incredibly smart and she can apparently create any technology. So this movie is focusing on- Sure, it's all broadcast technology. That's her thing. She makes the little cameras.

She hacks into- It's always broadcast. That's her thing. She makes the little cameras. She hacks into... It's always broadcast. That's her thing. I'm saying her power is greater, as you said, in terms of her strategy, her technological ability. We're focusing in on this one thing she can do, which is insanely powerful. But also, she has even more power outside of that. And what I ask you is, here's a question... What I asks you is...

What I asks you is, here's a question i wish the movie didn't make me have to ask oh why doesn't she team up with the government i don't know maybe because she has a common like that's an ally with a common enemy so why instead does she let her brother go down this road and then just try to fight against her brother. Or is it just chaos for chaos sake? Okay, that's a trope. I think they set her up that way. She talks about how good her brother is at

selling things. And I think she wants to harness that. She wants to get them on this big stage where she can sort of turn people against heroes forever. I don't know. I mean, that's my counter. But I get your point. But she just kind of shrugs off her brother as like, you know, he's whatever. If it was like...

Good salesman. Right. But I'm saying if it was like, I want to let him try to do this so I can not only embarrass superheroes but him, that would be one thing for me. I'm not saying that's the answer I want. No, she's not mad at him. But I'm saying something like that, I would go like, well, that's why she has to do it this way. No, her brother's the superheroes off the ground so that she can bring in a super villain to beat him at his own game.

Instead, I'm like, you have to hire like hypnotized pizza boys to then present a public face. No, that stuff makes sense to me because that's her and Bird being like, this is all just like narrative it's not there's not ideology like you know what I mean like you're

a hero villain that's interesting you know that's what that's what Screenslaver he's so Screenslaver

who by the way looks super cool yeah looks cool I wish he was visually on screen a little more people said that but I was like

I mean to me I'm just like he looks like a cool skull man do you know what I honestly would have liked I would have liked? I would have liked, and this gets into the Fantastic Four thing.

A great device in the Fantastic Four is the Doom bot thing, which is in there from, I think, his first appearance, where it's like Dr. Doom, who's a dude wearing this metal suit, has a lot of robots that look just like him. Yes. So a lot of times you'll be on an entire Fantastic Four adventure and they're like, we finally got him. And they're like, God damn, it's another robot. Yeah. That's his thing. He was in his office

the whole time. Right and he's like diplomatic community bye bye. Right. And I kind of once they set up the pizza boy thing

which when she beats him and it's that early in the movie I was like there's no way this is actually screen slaver. I was like

I would like it if she keeps on having to track down different screen slavers. If you get to a sequence where you have 50 screen slavers you know. You want a sequence where you have 50 screen slavers, you know,

you want a burly brawl. Yeah. I want a burly man brawl, but I also just thought that was like a fun opportunity there. That's not, um, totally exploited. What was the other thing I was going to say about screen slaver?

Uh, he does look fucking cool. Oh yeah. This movie is an epileptic seizure waiting to happen. So great. I love that. I, when he was, when they had that big fight in the flashing lights room, I was like, I can't believe they

let him do this. This is so crazy. It looks amazing. Looks amazing. It's pretty transcendent. It also is going to make people want it. Yeah. I was just surprised that they didn't have a warning.

I mean, I know they do. And now they do. They're now doing it. But I was just surprised they didn't. But it's kind of crazy Disney, especially so overly cautious with anything. Yeah. I know. But to me, Screenslaver, he's so comically with anything. I know but to me Screensclaver he's so

comically evil looking I love it. It's all part of the gag. So here's the thing that I kept on thinking about. I know I'm doing a lot of here's the thing. The real fear is manipulation. Like how your narratives get shaped for you without you even realizing it.

I mean that's smart. One profound point. But I do think... Seraph's a login screen. Don't put me through that again. I kept on thinking this feels a lot like a less

concise, effective Trevor Slattery thing for me. Oh, wait. Who's Trevor Slattery thing for me. Oh, wait. Who's Trevor Slattery again? Fake Mandarin. Oh, I love that, though. That's my favorite.

Now, that's why I'm bringing it up because you and I both recognize that Iron Man 3 is the best of the Marvel movies. Don't at me. It's a masterpiece. The fact that people hate it makes me insane.

Crazy. But also, I feel like when people hate it, that's always the thing they bring up. They're like, I hate that the movie makes me invest in a fake villain for half the film

only to reveal Iron Man 3 spoilers that he's actually just a media manipulation and I love that like when the movie's starting out like I mean that is a movie about the military industrial complex it's a movie where Don Cheadle is rebranded into this red white and blue superhero

which is basically just like a shell game to kill the president. And like, that's the Mandarin is like a media creation. Right. But not only that, he's the most comical version of like a, that times villain, which is like this sort of vaguely middle Eastern hero,

a villain with like, who's like, America is very bad, you know, like, you know, they, they took an amalgamation of villains. They took the Mandarin. Who's like america is very bad you know like you know they they took an

amalgamation of villains they took the mandarin who's like a horrible fu manchu right in the comics he's just like a literally just like a red chinese villain right like he's just like the other and instead they in the movie turn him into like a joel silver version of osama bin laden right exactly right which i'm watching and i'm like, okay, first of all, Ben Kingsley swimming in the River of Ham. Oh, boy. His fucking rules. I love the design of the character.

I like the fact they're keeping him in these videos. Yes. They're winding him up so much. What's it going to be like when they come face to face? And then the reveal of like, oh, that's all he is. He's literally a series of viral videos. Right.

He's a piece of branding to sell this notion. But then I think- There's literally a complicated shit joke in the movie where he's like, do not go in there! You know, it's great. Which is the moment they should have gave Ben Kingsley the Oscar. They should have stopped the projector at the first screening

and just handed him an honorary award. Correct. But I think the Killen thing really tracks in that movie. And I'm not saying Killen is like, cinematically the best villain ever. But you also totally get where he's coming from. I think it's a great rebuke

of everything that sucks about Tony Stark. The fact that they've made you buy into this franchise about a guy who's essentially an asshole. I agree. Right?

And it's like yeah he fucked over everyone for like 20 years until he finally gained a conscience. But guess what? He also was like a war profiteer

for decades before that. That's what I'm and also on a great movie on a micro level look at him just like fucking dunking on this nerd and thinking like i'm so cool i'm funny i'm robert downey jr i can get away with it and this guy held a grudge for 20 years agreed which is why i'm in through rules and we'll do an episode on it one day want to mention yeah space force

trump is militarizing space yeah we need an aloha sequel right now it deals with this that's all i wanted to say yeah this is a moment where like reed hastings could step up and upload all of netflix into the space force satellite upload fucking that cigarose song or whatever the fuck it is into the satellite it blows up yeah and then you fall in love with the white asian lady and it's great aloha to to loha ben are you getting a card out of your eye? What are you doing? You're going to go crazy. Pulled out a Yu-Gi-Oh card?

It's a Beyblade? He's not even in a card form anymore? Remember Beyblades? Yeah, I do. Do I remember Beyblades? That's the most insulting thing you've ever done towards me. Sorry.

No, I'm starting to get a migraine. Cool. We only have four more episodes. You want to take a break? No, just keep going. I mean, you can walk out of the studios. No, I'm okay. I find the decoy villain thing oftentimes frustrating in films, but

Iron Man 3 is one of the examples where it doesn't deflate for me because A, I think what they're saying about propping up this fake villain is smart. We gotta get off Iron Man 3. We both agree on it. Watch me build this bridge right now. And Killian remains satisfying, right? I do find

a gulf between screenslaver as a fake media idea and Evelyn that I can't totally bridge. I think it's a fair criticism. I also think he keeps doing these movies where the villains are people, inventors, tech people

with no powers. And he does keep making these movies about these sort of individual rights of inherently gifted people where the villains are not. I mean, they're gifted with intellect. Which you were getting into this argument on Twitter. Isn't it a little weird that in both of these movies,

the villains have been non-superpowered people? That's what I'm saying. Will Gosbrook brought that up, and I was like, it's fair. Goss. Goss. And I responded with, I do think it genuinely terrifies.

The core thing with Evelyn and Syndrome is that they're amoral. They're not using their technology for anything but what they want. And they don't care about killing people um and that's the big showdown with helen and evelyn at the end that's what they're fighting about yeah um but you know i think it would do him well to have like a like a super villain you know like a classic super villain i think so too i don't maybe maybe he just thinks too hard about this stuff and he always like, it's like, well, but what if I add like this extra layer to it, you know?

I would love to see him make an Incredibles 3 where they're not fighting a civilian creating a straw man identity. I would like to see someone of equal power to the Incredibles with a combating ideology. Yeah. The scariness of what if someone has the same level of ability is gifted

and doesn't care or cares about the wrong thing which is a basic superhero trope but it's also like look he's deconstructed stuff enough our culture's deconstructed stuff enough that there's no reason not to just let Brad Bird do a better version of that

and in a certain way that feels more classical to just do that now maybe we better version of that. And in a certain way, that feels more classical to just do that. Now, maybe we're going to have to wait 14 more years for him to make Incredibles 3. I have no idea. So let's talk about a couple set pieces in between. Okay, so yeah, I was going to say. Because we don't have to go through all the plot. No, because here's what they do. Everyone just saw the movie. There's two

parallel lines. So there's the Helen stuff and there's the Bob stuff. So the Helen stuff, the first set piece is the motorcycle set piece with the monorail that's going the wrong way. Sure. It's just rules. Right. And the Elasticycle splits in half. Fucking great. Yeah, that's fucking cool.

My favorite moment is when she's driving on both sides of the tunnel over the train. It's so cool. No, but these movies are. And also it's like Elastigirl is endlessly fun in animation. You can do so much shit with her. Yeah.

With her body. You're sort of taciturn about this. Don't please stop talking about her body that way. I also just love comedically the showcasing the new house sequence. Sure. Which is like just kind of feels like animation porn for a house sequence. Sure. Which is like, just kind of feels like animation porn for a little bit. Right.

And then the comedic game reveals itself, which is Dash now can't stop hitting buttons and the buttons are contrasting with each other. Like, of course it's inconvenient to have like, water can just appear anywhere. And also like furniture can rise up from the basement.

Yes. Very fun. When the couches are getting crushed from the basement. Yes, very fun. When the couches are getting crushed in the water. Love it. It's very funny. Yeah. The other Helen stuff is, right, is her meeting these new superheroes. Void is the only one that is even given a quarter of characterization.

The rest of them are just kind of comedic types. Right, but I'm into that. Screech. Screech is cool. Yeah. Brick just kind of comedic types right but i'm into that screech screech is cool yeah uh brick is kind of weird brick is i was like what's going on here yeah brick's fascinating yeah i have seen people online wondering if brick is transphobic interesting i'd be interested to know who voiced brick i don't even know who voiced brick i was looking at the credits and it was a lot of just kind of like journeyman voice artists. Yeah, yeah.

But Phil Lamar, who does two of them. He's a classic. He does Helectrics, who is the electricity guy. Playboy sort of dude. Which I just like because visually I like that.

And then Crusher, who's funny. Right. The Uncrush thing is funny. The Void Power, I think is awesome. That bit where she's throwing the coffee cup is great.

She looks like Kristen Stewart. I wonder if they offered it to her. Maybe. She also kind of looked like Katy Perry. She had a real Katy Perry vibe. I think facially she looks really Kristen Stewart. I think facially you look like Kristen Stewart. Boing.

Reflux, who is a real Griffin character. Yeah, I was so surprised by the fact that I wasn't all in on Reflux. I had no problems, but I was like, oh man, I'm going to fucking love this guy. Barf Salt Lava. Yeah. He's an old man. What'd they say? I can't tell if it's a disorder or a power or something like that. Yeah, funny. You decide.

A comedy point. And then she has this big sequence of Screenslaver where she captures him in his house. And he's Norm, a pizza delivery guy. And it's, yes. And there's that cool shot of her, like, unlocking the doors,

and you see him in the background, and my whole audience went like, and the strobes fighting sequence is cool. Fun stuff. And then on the other side, you got Bob raising the kids. I mean, this is just kind of like home run stuff to me. it's so much fun totally works yes it's so good it's it's it's deeply felt yeah it you know it's it's like heart stringy like it's good right but it's also really

funny i i yeah i mean the jack jack stuff is really funny like yeah the raccoon sequence just feels like something where bird is like we can have so much fun doing this. It's amazing. Like the shot of him blowing up with, with flame, like an igniting all the, now can we talk about the thing that made me laugh incredibly hard during this movie and no one else in my theater laughed at it.

If they did, they just did like a, huh? And I was like, had to take my glasses off for like 30 seconds being like, am I the only one? The Violet plotline is Decker has to bring us

Tony's forgotten about her because Decker erases him. Right. Which Violet can't figure out at first. She just feels like he's being an asshole. Yeah.

And I love the scene where Bob like comes in he's so excited to like he started being a good dad. Yeah. He figured out the math thing. Right.

He sees Violet and he can't break through to Violet. And can just tell she's hurt and he doesn't know what to do. And then Violet at some point pieces together through an offhand comment to Bob Nix. That's why. She figures it out. Right. You know how many people we've had to. Right.

And then just goes into total angst mode of just like, this thing that I didn't choose is now ruining my ability to be an old person, live my life, the things i want sure and i i renounce superheroes right the garbage is that the bit that got you that's funny it's when bob thinks i know how to solve this we'll bring yeah well this is my favorite sequence right this is the key it makes me laugh so much stand out on the movie which is funny because it's less animation heavy. Well, except for the one thing I'm going to say. Sure. It is so wrong-headed, and he is so confident going into it. He has the joke about like, oh, this is nice over by the philandera.

I can't remember. The rhododendrons or some plants, whatever it is. Right. And he just thinks he's in line for a dad of the year award, right? Right. And then Tony comes over to pour the water. Yeah. And when she notices him,

I know it's so funny. She shoots the water out of her nose. I mean, we'll get a freeze frame of it. So like her face is just hysterical. This will be the only gift. There was like a pop. Yeah.

And I was laughing through to the next 15 lines of dialogue because this is also an animation thing I love where it's like, which I finally feel like CGI is getting to the point where it's exploiting. I feel like we lost this for a bit when we went to 3D animation as opposed to hand-drawn animation. The ability for a character based on circumstances or mood

to completely change the shape of their head. So it's not just that water shoots out to her nose. It's like her whole head expands. And her eyes get 17 times bigger. And then when she's all bleary-eyed and she's like, what? Right. What were you going to say, Ben?

Her entire chemistry changes in reaction to this thing. I was losing it. Yep. And I just, yeah. I mean, Violet is the best. She rules. I Renounce Superheroes is really it. Yep. And I just, I, yeah. I mean, Violet is the best. She rules. I renounce superheroes is really funny. Yeah.

The costume not being destroyed by the garbage disposal. I renounce my renouncement is really funny. She rules. I agree. All her cool force field shit is great. Yeah. I love Bob with the baby. Yeah.

I just love that whole arc. Right. I know some friends with uh young kids who said it was chillingly realistic yeah jack jack is hilarious uh-huh he's a star i'm with all this stuff yeah yeah no i know i assumed you were i mean this stuff is like i said it's just a home run like it may be easier for the movie to nail it but didn't nail it i've been sort of distracted a little bit my apologies did you you talk about the sequence with Baby getting dropped off? We haven't talked about Edna yet.

Well, so that's the Edna scene. Right. Yeah. I mean, come on. That is like one of the best moments in the movie, I think. Really? You love the Edna scene? Well, you're really into fashion now.

I am into fashion. Yeah. Did you not like the... I mean, the Edna scene feels more fan service-y because it's like just all the stuff we love from Edna's. Well, you're really into fashion now. I am into fashion. Did you not like the... I mean, the Edna scene feels more fan service-y because it's like just all the stuff we love from Edna. I was going to say, there was a little bit of that. I enjoy episodes. I like all the Jack-Jack stuff that's happening.

Jack-Jack mirroring Edna when he's walking down the hallway. Jack-Jack mirroring Edna is the part that rules. When he grows the little wig. No, but not even that. When she's walking down the hallway. Oh, yes, that. He's got the lollipop. Yeah, that fucking rules. All his powers are good. I was so happy that there were powers I didn't know about.

You know what I mean? Like the teleporting and the multiplication and all that. I love that shit. Even the other dimensions. That's so funny. And like sort of how they explain it really cleanly with the monitor. Yeah. And like, I love-

The metaphors of all that, like that's where the parenting metaphor is translating the most in this movie sure you know like you have to learn how your kid works right exactly

and like they do things that like seem irrational yeah it does feel a little bit to me though like you already have okay so her superhero suit

because I'm watching I'm like how are they going to work Edna into this again obviously they can't make a sequel without her. Well, I do,

right. The gag that Elastigirl has this dark and gritty suit. Right. So they didn't go to Edna. Yeah. Gagbaggio. Right. Yeah.

They say that line. I was like, so is she going to come back angry at the suit thing? Is she going to show up at their doorstep? Like irate? Like what's the thing? Because Edna, in addition to being just like a funny device,

it's like the damage control from Marvel it's like oh who does make the suits like good fucking Brad Bird bit well characterized

characterized what the fuck am I talking about but then also the fact that she's the one who like gives the motivational speech to Helen

it's such a good like Brad Bird use every part of the buffalo like don't establish something and you're saying in this one it feels a little good like use every part of the buffalo like don't establish something and you're saying in this one she's good it feels a little bit like crush the turtle being in finding dory

well it's not that bad it's not as bad I think the sequence is fun but I'm also like it's a little sweaty that his solution is Edna figures out parenting you know sometimes your friends gotta help you out sure I don't know. Sure. Gotta learn to be a dad. His big breakthrough

being a dad, though, is when he talks to Violet. That's the nicest moment, you know, where he's like, I'm just trying to be a good dad. She lets him sleep. And she's like, yeah. You know, you are. You're super. Violet's such a good kid. Five heartwarming points. It was weird. I was very keenly aware, like, when the first

one came out, I was like the, the same age as Violet. Yeah. And watching this one now, I'm like, oh, she's a child. And it's not like I haven't watched the original Incredibles since I was a kid, but I also watch it and think about, like, well, I saw this when I was 14. I remember how I related to this character. And I'm like... Well, also, she

is more together, though. You know, she's no longer the hair-in-the-face emo kid. Right. As Toy Rhyger says, she's no longer the hair in the face she's got the headband right she as toy ranger says she's she's different now she seemed confident what's holding up a card yeah no we're almost done too long fair boom fair criticism yeah um that's both of us i guess yellow cards all right um uh and so uh there's this sequence where Frozone rescues them. Well, cause Bob figures out, why does Bob go after Helen again?

Bob gets the, um, screensaver sets Bob up to be hypnotized by Helen. Right. And, but he goes off and he says, Frozone, watch the kids.

Like, you know, he's basically told Helen's in trouble. Oh, right. So he goes off to rescue Helen. And obviously, you know,

that's not actually what happened. is frozen. the kids yeah where's my super suit asap uh frozen comes in gets to do some cool frozen stuff which i was happy about do you know who plays honey i don't frozen's wife who the uh head of uh hr at berlin adair clark hey man she's funny just got someone from the the HR department who now gets residuals. Good for her. The Incredibles and the video games. Probably is like a sag card. Yeah.

It must fucking rule. Yeah. Good for her. Um, but don't I just, cause in the first movie, Frozone super cool. Yeah.

Does have this moment where he like makes a wall of snow and the machine just goes through it and you're kind of like, is Frozone shitty? And this, he like, I like his like ice blasts and stuff. He's fun fighting all those guys. Then he gets hypnotized.

They escape in the car. And you know what else I like? Showing you he's a good superhero. He knows that he's not going to be able to beat this. Right. So his priority is giving Jack-Jack and Violet all the information they need to know of how to be able to escape from him.

And like putting them into the car. Recognize the voice. Giving them the voice ID. I mean they set up the car thing earlier in the movie with the collector. I like it driving out while the guy has the date. And him hiding behind the date. Yeah. Brad Bird doesn't like rich people. Right.

So then you get into this thing where it's like Jack, Jack Dash and Violet realize, or rather Violet and Dash realize they need to save the day, and they have Jack-Jack as their secret weapon. Right. And there's the whole boat sequence. And this is, yeah, to me, this is just Brad Bird,

where he's like, bang, bang, bang. This is great. But this almost feels like an entire Incredibles thematic idea in and of itself, which is parents wrestling with letting their kids be independent and make decisions. You want them to follow you in what you did. Yes, sure, sure, sure.

That's the thing. But it just becomes a final act. At the start, it's like, we need to let our kids choose, and this is what they want to do. Right. And it's great. They rescued their parents. This then becomes like one of five or six thematic ideas, you know, that are integrated into plot rather than a like everything is, you know. Yeah.

The sort of like Aristotle's poetics, like cleanness of Ratatouille and Incredibles, where it's like everything is on theme. We know what our themes are. Even the things that feel tangential actually line up. This is like we got a lot of stuff going. Which I'd rather too much than too little. Yeah. But it's also like he set such a high standard for himself.

He did. This all does sing for me. I think it's so fun. The final boat sequence I didn't find as exciting as the rest of them. I didn't find it unexciting. But I was just like the end syndrome on the droid sequence which is much smaller

in scope. It's contained essentially within one city street because they probably could only afford to render that one city street. Much like the first Avengers it's like geographically it's very small. They're kind of fighting a contained thing. I mean it's great. I love the syndrome thing. But i just find the stakes of it very easy to follow yeah it's very exciting and how the story has built up to that point and the rules of how they fight how they stop these

things what the weaknesses are this just started feeling like a lot of stuff to me and stuff that he's executing all really well but it's like i was just sort of going like, oh, so this is the point where everything. It's the sophomore curse. A little bit. Hard to beat. Kind of. Come on. It's hard to beat a movie like The Incredibles.

I'm sort of mapping it to music, right, with bands that have this successful debut. Now you can do anything. Now you can do anything. And then it's just too many ideas. Agreed. And like someone else wants to start writing a song now, you know. Yeah. And like it just becomes a mishmash of ideas and it's not.

Elemental. Yeah. Right. Which none of these things mean the movie is bad. These are arguments for why the movie is not a masterpiece in my eyes. It's like, oh, this is why it's only like, you know, an exemplary piece of animation rather than being like a perfect piece of art. I kind of agree with David

that maybe seeing it a few more times, it's so dense. Yeah, it's so good. It is so dense. Like I know I miss stuff. 100%. Yeah. And it's also taken me 35 viewings

to respect everything going on in the first Incredibles this much. You know? I'm holding it to an unrealistic standard because I'm like, but it doesn't immediately register for me in the way that the Incredibles this much. You know? I'm holding it to an unrealistic standard because I'm like but it doesn't immediately register for me in the way that

The Incredibles has registered after 14 years of thought. Yeah. I recognize that. But this final boat sequence I thought was fine. Didn't do a tremendous amount for me.

I would watch five burp points. I would like to know what you think about it the second time. I mean honestly talking about it right now makes me want to go see it again

tonight. So good. I'll probably see it this weekend. But I do think- I'll see it in 4DX. I'll see it in fucking 8DX. But I do think, yeah,

there are these crucial exchanges between Elastigirl and Evelyn that are sort of the core of their philosophical, you know, like, Burt is basically saying,

in my opinion, like, the heroes are going to exist. And, you know, like, Bird is basically saying, in my opinion, like, the heroes are going to exist. Yeah. And, you know, what makes Elastigirl,

et cetera, a superhero is that she is an ethical person. She wants to do good. You know, she has a code that she follows. And that's the end all be all for her. It's not an ego stroke in the way it kind of is for Bob.

Right. I mean, he's not saying Bob's bad, but, you know, he's basically just saying like, this is what's crucial to their existence. I'm not saying it's solely an ego stroke for Bob. Right. I mean, he's not saying Bob's bad, but you know, he's basically just saying like this is what's crucial to their existence.

I'm not saying it's solely an ego stroke for Bob, but he gets some juice off of that in a way that Helen doesn't as much. I mean, I love that moment when he calls. Helen loves to be good at it. When she calls him that broadcast news moment, ugh, and she's like talking about how great she did stopping the train and running him through it. Right.

And then Bob says, what if Needy was sexy? You think you can do these things, Nemo, but you can't. He says both of those things, it's horribly incongruous. Yeah. Yes.

It's a disaster. Inappropriate. Yeah. I mean, Anthony Lane might have been onto something. No, but yes,

that is great. And it also, like, the thing I liked about that moment was I was like but wouldn't Bob already know about it and I was like

no because this is the 60s you find out about things when you watch the nightly news or read the paper in the morning I'm like it's been an hour

since she stopped the monorail wouldn't he know and it's like oh right no the world used to be better also worse whatever

who cares everything's bad everything's good I don't know but at the end when Evelyn is locked up Violet's saying saying, like, she's just going to get away with it. And I like that Violet finds a contemporary in Void. Yes, definitely.

I just thought they were going to do more with Void in terms of making Helen aware of that sort of impact she had, which they only do in the one scene. impact she had which they only do in the one scene the idea that helen wasn't just saving people in terms of actually saving people but saving people in terms of giving people a sense of meaning in their life by seeing themselves in her yeah um wait ahead oh yeah oh as evelyn's being locked up um she says just because you got me doesn't you know mean you're right or whatever right and helen's like yeah but it does mean you're a lot and for her it does feel like helen's like look i feel like satisfied by this you know what i mean like i don't have to be triumphant over you like i know i did the right thing because it's that moment where void's like you know save yourself save yourself save yourself when helen's falling and like and then finally and she doesn't and so void has

to do it help her out but that's you know exactly that's superhero shit man that's the magic yeah elastigirl is helping void realize some shit i'm doing like a yeah i need to see another an arc with my hand right now um it just you know it's also like i played all all the Incredibles video games they made. They made an Underminer game that was a sequel. Mark Waid wrote a comic for a little bit. There were all these sort of supplemental like, I guess he's never going to make a sequel so we'll do other stories

kind of things. And I was like, okay, this is fun, like, you know, the animated series, Saturday morning, non canonical adventures, but I'm waiting for the definitive Brad Bird like this is the sequel we obviously the only sequel he could have made and this didn't feel like that to me

and perhaps once again unrealistic expectations I'm throwing on to this thing. Hard to beat number one. Also I'll probably see it 15 more times over the course of the next decade so let's see where I stand there. Proud of you. Merchandise Spotlight I swear this will be short, Ben. I didn't even bring it in,

so we don't even have to do a fucking demonstration or anything. Okay. I just think this is a very clever item. Okay. That I can't believe they didn't think of for the first one. They have a toy called the Elasta Arm. Okay. That is like one of those old boxing glove extension things.

I loved those. So it's like the grip, which has the sort of like crisscross hinge kind of thing. And you got Elastigirl's fist at the end of it. Pretty cool. Yeah. And you can punch someone across the room. That's great.

I'm into that. Right? That rules. When I was a kid, I loved those. That's fucking cool. Remember those things also, there was like claws?

Yes, the robot claws. I loved those. Loved those. Those were my favorite things to like modify my body. Like if I was playing with a friend, I loved those. That's fucking cool. Remember those things also, there was like claws? Yes, the robot claws. I loved those. Loved those. It was like my favorite thing to like modify my body. Like if I was playing with a friend, I could be the villain.

I had like a claw hand. If I was a kid and I had that toy, I would immediately punch my smaller friend in the face. You would have been a disaster with this toy. You would have caused so much damage. Oh, and I would have definitely hid

and then hit my dad in the nuts. For sure. God, what a nightmare. Why didn't they just like throw you in a Valley? Let you die. It was called New Jersey. They did.

It's true. Um, um, box office. Yeah. I just want to say one more thing about this thing. Sure. Cause I,

I like, I also think the final scene with Tony is really cute. The date. It's really cute. Oh, I love it. Love it. Um,

and then the family being embarrassing. It's so sweet. Right the first one um uh the thing we're all playing the mask on she's like wait also Isabella Rossellini as the ambassador holy shit yeah anyway um I like uh when they make merchandise for movies that are like the hands of the characters we'll talk about this in a future episode, but that whole sub-genre of merchandise I really like. When the first Johan Griffith Fantastic Four came out,

they tried to come up with a Mr. Fantastic toy like that that was just like, it's a hand and then it can just reach out further. But you can't really grab stuff like a claw. And I just think this is so much simpler and it's like punch yeah you just want to punch people like you want to punch your dad in the nuts paint it red put a black glove on it perfect done best toy ever i'm i'm rating toys r us is

going into business sales for these um box office game yes the incredibles 2 opened number one right so let's see if i can guess the other movies in the box office that came out. What was the weekend gross? 182. Correct. 182.6 million dollars. Highest animated gross opening ever. By a wide margin.

By like 50 million. I think Finding Dory was 135. Something like that. Number two. It's a film that is number two at the box office. Come on. Number two, so it was whatever was number one the week before, which is not Deadpool 2.

It's the thing. Oh, Ocean's 8. A film that you will be getting checks for. I probably will get more money for Ocean's 8 than most things I have ever worked on. Real exciting. Yeah. So Ocean's 8 has made now $78 million in two weeks.

Pretty solid. Yeah. It's going to make an easy hundred. Yeah. Easy breezy hundred. I think it'll sort of end up in that Ready Player One territory. Uh-huh. Except costing a third as much.

Cost less but won't make as much worldwide would be my guess. I think it's going to do pretty well. Yeah, but not like Ready Player One. Ready Player One did insane worldwide. Yeah. Number three is a film I saw that soon we will recognize never existed it's just sort of ready to not exist it's ready to not exist just a movie where you're like jesus and he was in it that's a movie so it's got good it's about this you are you sure that was a movie that wasn't like some dumb idea you had it's based on a true story

oh tag it's about a game of tag Ben you know what you just proved your point because already that movie doesn't exist doesn't exist have you seen it? it's not a true story we swear I have not seen it

probably watch it on an airplane that's exactly the kind of movie I like watching on airplanes. It's just not what I wanted, which was fun. Yeah, that sucks. It's just not so good. So it's sort of like the idea of playing tag with friends over 20 years. Tedious. Well, and also I wanted the movie to be-

Occasionally satisfying, but mostly tedious. Because the movie is, immediately you're just like, this is so fucked up. They're crazy. These people need an intervention. Was it Yoshida who wrote the review about like, I wish this movie acknowledged how sad this is? Well, I think I kind of did. She might have too.

I just, that's what it is. And then sometimes it does. Their entire life is sacrificed for this. It does acknowledge it. And then it kind of pulls back from it. And then the end, it tries to totally have its cake and eat it too. Does it have like a big twist?

Like in terms of it making a jarring, dramatic shift? It has a really fucking annoying twist. Yes. Which I won't spoil. Renner's skin, he can't touch it yes exactly he's made of acid yeah he's got boy in the bowl renner is weird in this movie renner is so weird in this movie that you're like is jeremy renner a psychopath is it the kind of performance that someone who is in constant pain from two freshly broken arms might give i don't

what if he was just on painkillers the entire movie? He might be. He's a little zoned out. Number four, it's made $193 million. It's the biggest flop of the year. Solo. How weird. It's like the Justice League of this year. I know.

Where you're like, but it made money. Yeah, well. Yeah, I get that it cost way too much because like Justice League, it was shot two times. But also it is bizarre that we live in a world where it's like 100 million dollar opening weekend

it's a disaster right 200 million dollar final gross a calamity it's true like that used to be like

the number one movie of what 1986 was Three Men and a Baby which did like 160 million sure it's a long time ago

yeah I know Superfly is number six Deadpool 2 is number five. Did you see it? I have not seen it yet and Deadpool will not stop calling me and taking me to task for not having seen it yet. That's his bit. Hereditary. Did you see Hereditary? I have. I love it. I think it fucks.

Do you not like it? No, I like it. I just don't. I'm sick of you saying that things fuck. Can I pitch my ending for Hereditary? You saw Hereditary, right? We talked about it. What's your ending for Hereditary please yeah you saw hereditary right we talked about it yeah what's your ending for hereditary is it could be hereditary he had a good bit so i'm sure spoilers for hereditary really i think so i mean he's talking about the ending i've kind of gotten a little more on board because i initially wasn't into the ending

okay i just felt uh i don't know i just i would rather it be more grounded and not be like this whole like elaborate right ben didn't like okay so real turn towards the supernatural i like that it goes bug nuts at the end because it shows so much control up until that point right that's fine that's a good argument i like hereditary i feel like i'm in the middle i think a big improvement would be all right so you see what happened right he speaking vague speaking vague yeah hecomes this thing. And then the camera sort of pulls out and it sort of gets all glassy. And then you see

you're in the devil's lair and he's like And this was all one of the devil's snow globes? Ben pitched this to me when we were doing pickups the other week and I was amused. That sounds great. I'll say Hereditary. I think one of the best in Congress and credits needle

drops in recent history. People try that game a lot, the lime and the coconut at the end of fucking Reservoir Dogs. I like that. So often I'm like, okay, a little too winky. Playing both sides now at the end of Hereditary I found genuinely amusing.

I agree. I like that yeah okay so we're done book club you saw book club yeah Fox Jesus that one does fuck

alright I'll say this yellow card good call good call thank you remember when I thought I was gonna get zero cards

oh boy you fool I saw book club with Romley and my mother I tweeted this but Romley who bragged

on a Ratatouille episode that she never cries during movies, was drawn to tears by the Mamma Mia Here We Go Again trailer. Which is a bad trailer. Yeah, and it wasn't performative. It does not make me go to tears. I went like, you're going to see that, right? And I looked over at Romley and she literally had tears in her face. And she was trying to wipe them out. Right, right, right, right.

and she was trying to wipe them out. Right, right, right, right. But the thing I was going to say is, you know how everyone was complaining about how dark Solo is and we were talking about how much we liked the cinematography and being like, if you're saying you can't see the movie, come on, grow up. The projection for Book Club was so dark that it looked like Solo where I can't imagine how bad Solo looks

if you saw it in those circumstances yes like book club it's like i'm paying i'm throwing 17 down in the barrel so i can see the brightest most flatly lit that movie was shot by my grandma right who is dead right let's be honest right and my screening of book club looked like hereditary. It was so fucking dark. It's all pastels and white. There's a lot of shadows in this film. We're done. Okay, great.

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Anne for Gudo for her social media. Pat Rollins and Joe Bowen for our artwork. Go to BlankiesAtRed.com for some real nerdy shit. And as always always cars 2 makes cars 3 look like cars 1 but also what's coming next

here's a twist bonus episode next week we will be starting our next mini series yep we're going right into it is the films of Ang Lee. We're just going to admit it.

We lied before when we said we'd never do him. And that's part of our devilish charm. Wait, what's the devil saying right now? Next week, Pushing Hands and The Wedding Banquet. We combined those first two movies because most people haven't seen Pushing Hands. Pushing Hands is fine. It's fine. The rest of them are great.

Yeah. But get ready. We're going through it. We finally get to talk about the Hulk. My friend, Mr. Hulk. Johnny T. Hulk. So tune in for that. But just a couple days from now,

we'll be releasing a bonus episode on Brad Bird's family dog. Yeah. His American... Won't be too long. Not going to be too long, right? The episode. No, no.

It's going to be 15 minutes long. But this is experimenting a way to bring back the bonus episodes of literally doing them as like a midweek, little shorter drop thing to be able to throw out our insummation thoughts on the filmmaker. Ben? And stay tuned

because we have some burger reports. Some bergs. And also stay tuned because Cars 2 makes Cars 3 look good. Bye. Bye. Thank you for calling the Burger report hotline 802-8-BURGER please leave a message with your FAMO type of burger and location and we will try to put it on the podcast if we can that's 802-8-BURGER

in Beverly Hills I was working at a hotel uh shooting there, and I saw the happy man himself, Pharrell Williams, walk in with a crew of gentlemen, and it seemed like all of them ordered the burger, and I happened to also get that burger the same day. All right, that's it. Hey guys, this is Danish from Chicago Chicago calling in with a burger report. About 10 years ago, I was on my way to work in downtown Chicago when I see a large man jaywalking across State Street while eating a pretty sizable burger with one hand.

It was already a striking image, but then I saw it was none other than actor Mike Starr, probably best known for his role as the gas man from Dumb and Dumber, although he's been in hundreds of shows and movies, including Middle East Crossing, Edward, The Office, and Blank Check's very own Blue Steel. So some more notes on the burger. It was big. It was unwieldy, although he was handling it pretty well with his single hand.

He had taken a couple bites out of it already. It was a little soggy. I could see some of the lettuce hanging out the sides. He had taken it to go because it was still wrapped in sort of a parchment paper tin foil wrapping. From the looks of it, it was definitely not a chain like Donald's or Burger King. It was heftier, meatier. I would have guessed Portillo's or Al's Beef, but those were all four blocks west, and he was coming from the east.

However, there was a Weber Grill restaurant not too far back, so I think that's the safest bet. Anyway, that's my report. It was obviously a pretty impactful encounter, as I still remember it vividly this many years later. So I hope that helps. Thanks, guys, and keep up the great work. Yes, I'd like to call in an Incredibles-related burger report. Years ago, I was working at a bar in Long Beach, California,

and one Mr. Jason Lee, voice of Syndrome, came in. He sat at a table, and he ordered a blue cheese burger. It was a rectangular-shaped burger with blue cheese and bacon on it. Incredibly polite customer. Yeah, like I said, very nice.

I saw him at an art show probably like a year later and he remembered me. So just great guy. Had a burger with some fries. Chilled down. Yeah, there we go. Jason Lee, he's a burger fan. That's all I can say.