Blank Check with Griffin & David - Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull with David Ehrlich

Episode Date: April 16, 2017

David Ehrlich (IndieWire) returns to Blank Check to discuss 2008's polarized franchise reboot, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. But are the rumors true that there is a superior early version of this screenplay? Is George Lucas to blame for the most of the criticism? And is it clear that Mutt Williams is a greaser type character? Together they examine, the new old Harrison Ford movies slated for release, the culture around the death of celebrities, the many follies of Shia LaBeouf and also explore Ray Winstone impressions.

I don't understand. Why the legend about the city of gold? The Ugga word for gold translates as treasure. I don't understand. Why the legend about the city of gold? The Ugga word for gold translates as treasure. But their treasure wasn't gold. It was podcasting. Podcasting was their treasure. God.

No wonder I forgot that line. Pow! Welcome to Blank Check. I said it for some reason. Yeah, with Griffin and David. With Griffin and David. My name's Griffin Newman. I am Mutt Sims. David Mutt Sims.

David Sims III. The name I picked for myself. But he picked the name Mutt. This is a podcast about filmography. Directors who have massive success early on in their career and then are issued a series of blank checks to make whatever wild passion projects or follies they

want. And sometimes those... That's the theme? I thought you guys just picked people you liked. Eh, kind of. Column A, column B. Sometimes those checks clear. But sometimes they bounce, baby. Good.

We are hashtag the two friends. And the director that we are currently investigating is Steven Spielberg. Asterix, the DreamWorks years. Yeah, I don't know if you knew that. I don't know anything. Yeah, we're only doing DreamWorks. The idea of his DreamWorks was the blank check he got. The ultimate blank check. The biggest blank check.

He wrote it himself. His own damn studio. His own name's on the check. Yeah. Well, you know, he got a K and a G in there with him. Yeah. Yeah. Don't forget the K and the G, though.

Don't forget the K and the G. SKG, though. This main series is called Pod Me If You Can't. And we've gotten to probably what is the most... Contentious? Yeah, right? I would say so. I'd say the hot button movie.

Project. Yes. It is Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Kingdom of the Crystal Podcast. Give those words a second to resonate with people and bounce around their ear holes. Indiana Jones. Don't just rush over them like that. And the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Okay, let's try alternating. I take one word, you take the next word. Okay. Indiana. Jones. And. The. Kingdom.

Of. The. Crystal. Skull. And what a skull it is! We have a very special guest with us today. Second time on the podcast. You might remember him from our episode on The Village.

That's right. Great episode. Great episode. About a great movie. Some would say your finest episode. It was a nice, it was a late night blank check. My mom said that. Yeah.

Yeah. It was a blank check after dark. Yeah, blank check after dark. This is a blank check in the late afternoon. Correct. So I don't know what that is. Also known from the Fighting the Worm podcast. Does work at Anywire?

Yes. And what else? What else do we know you from, buddy? I am in all things. His great Twitter feed. Great Twitter feed. And everywhere. Yeah.

But I always wanted to be known as the guy from that Blank Check episode about the village. So we can just leave it at that. Well, mission accomplished. David Ehrlich is here with us in the studio today. Happy to be here. To talk about this film. Now, I didn't-

Hello. Usually, you know we're connoisseurs of contact. Sure. I didn't do that much research today, but from what I gathered, this was the first in a planned franchise about Indiana Jones that I think never got off the ground. We're not doing that bit. What bit? I assume Georgie Lucas, Steven Spielberg, and Harrison Ford got together with the intention of making a series.

If you call something Indiana Jones and you assume there are going to be others. Yeah, and what you really want to do with the first one is give it a real trips-off-the-tongue name like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Yeah, and way too many characters. There was only one Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, and then we all as a society agreed that we needed no additional beasts. There was only Divergent series Allegiant, and they decided not to do more of the Allegiance.

Isn't it funny that they're just not going to do the last one? Yeah, they just said, ah, fuck it. They were like, I don't know, it'll be a TV show. And then it funny that they're just not going to do the last one? Yeah, they just, ah, fuck it. They were like, I don't know, it'll be a TV show. And then it was like, will it? And they were like, it'll be a web series. It'll be a podcast. Octavia Spencer's like, look, I'll do it. I'm on board.

I heard the next Divergent is going to be the first movie released straight to Granola Bar. It's going to be on your traffic light on the yellow. You get to see two seconds of Divergent Part 2 Allegiant. Is that what it is? Is it Divergent Allegiant Part 2? I think they were going to call it, like, Resurgent or something. I don't know. You know.

Okay. So Divergent Detergent is officially off the books. But this movie, look, no bits. I'm going to be straight with you. No bits. It's the fourth. It's the fourth Indiana Jones film. Indy, yes. But not the last look, no bets. I'm going to be straight with you. No bets. It's the fourth. It's the fourth Indiana Jones film. Indy, yes.

But not the last. I guess not. Because we're living in a weird time where there is an Indiana Jones 5 on the book, set to go. Disney. How old is Harrison Ford now? He's like 70? I think 74. He's 74?

Want to take a quick glimpse? I think he's 74. But he has to play old versions of all of his most iconic characters before he retires. Yep. He is 74. Oh, so is he going to be an old of all of his most iconic characters before he retires. He is 74. So is he going to be an old detective from Witness next? That'd be good. No, he was in, because of course

Star Wars, Blade Runner. That was the other one I was thinking of, yeah. Witness, Old Mosquito Coast. Old Mosquito Coast. Let's get that going. What else could we do? Old, what was that movie about? Seven Days, Eight Nights. Six Days, Seven Nights.

You gave it. Oh, I see what you're doing. I just got it. I got it. Thank you. So Old Ford. Random Hearts. Oh, yeah, Random Hearts.

No, but Sidney Pollack, RIP. You know, you got to get living directors. That's the thing about Harrison Ford. His directors are dying. Old Hollywood Homicide. I think that guy's silver. Silver Lake Homicide. That's what's his name? Ron Shelton who did

Bull Durham. That's right. Bollywood Homicide. With Harrison Ford. That'd be good. Yes. Multicultural. Exactly. Yes. To get like Prankaya Chopra in there. Yes. The great Prankaya Chopra and also I thought it was Priyanka. Priyanka I have no idea. I don't either I've never said it

I've never watched Quantico You don't watch Quantico bro? You don't watch Quantico? I watch the pilot of Quantico I pilot Quantico That's a great episode So we're going to talk about Remember when he made

Extraordinary Measures Yeah Extraordinary Measures And now Brendan Fraser Plays like a prison guard Who's fat on The Affair season three. Brendan Fraser's on The Affair season three? Season three in like a recurring role and he's fat.

He's like fatter than me. He's like not in good shape. Did you read that recent like oral history of Crash? I did. Where they talked about that the only reason that film- We're like getting Brendan Fraser was what got them the green light. That's the only reason they got a green light. And Brendan Fraser in one scene and he's just like, I'm the DA and I say racism is great.

He like points at the camera and he's like, you got a roast beef sandwich I can eat on my way out of here? There's a whiteboard with the word racism on it and he circles it six times. The turns of the camera gives a thumb up. You can't tell me if there was a web series called Fat Brendan Fraser starring Brendan Fraser as his fat self you wouldn't watch every week. I love Brendan Fraser. I would watch him on Crackle as hard as I could. Do you want to know what the weirdest thing is about Brendan Fraser? On Snap, on Crackle, on Pop, I don't care.

God, I love Crackle Originals. Quickly, guys. You do love a Crackle Originals series. I know this is a sidebar. We're all one day going to be on a Crackle Originals series, so we shouldn't diss him too much. I know this is a sidebar, and I know we're already avoiding talking about the movie at hand, but can we just quickly go around the table and everyone name their top five Crackle Originals? I can't.

I need to do top ten. I can't do ten. I can't limit it to five. I mean, Art of the Steel is one, right? I really couldn't name a Crackle Originals series. Number two has to be Startup. I mean, Art of the Steel is one, right? I really couldn't name a Crackle original series. Number two has to be Startup. I mean, if we count movies. The thing about Crackle is, like, once their PR person said, like,

I know the pilot and second episodes of this are bad, but keep watching. And I was like, you're the PR person for crying out loud. That's not how this works. Anyway. Well, the thing is about him playing old versions of himself is like in Star Wars and in Blade Runner, supposedly according to this plot synopsis that leaked, it's the same goddamn plot, which is like, you know, young people. Gotta find him. Yeah, like, you know, uncover, you know, a secret scroll of information that leads them to old Harrison Ford,

who's going to be sarcastic. It mimics the process of probably getting him to say yes to be in your movie. You've got to track out to the mountains of wherever he lives with Calista Flockhart. With a scroll. With a scroll of a screenplay. Be like, wait, I've got three words for you. Old morning glory. And he's like, okay.

I told you where I am. I haven't been morning glory in a long time. Afternoon glory? But I think the difference is with Indiana Jones, Harrison Ford actually wants to do it.

Yes. He loves Indiana Jones. He's like, sign me up, which is weird. Okay, there are a couple factors there. Go ahead. One is, Indiana Jones

is his favorite character. Well, it makes sense. He fucking loves Indiana Jones. Han Solo, he's like, when do we get to kill this motherfucker? I want him dead. I want it on screen. Han Solo has always sort of been an albatross around his neck. I guess so, yeah.

He has a difficult love-hate relationship with it. Sure. Whereas Indiana Jones, he fucking loves. Do you think he just thinks space and lasers are stupid? Is it that simple, do you think? I think he thinks... He's a practical man. Yes, I think he's a practical man.

He likes working with his hands. He likes flying a plane and crashing it into a field. And he likes piercing one of his own ears. Breaking a whole boat in his body. Sure. I re-watched Raiders of the Lost Ark as well last night. Wow. I wanted to do a counterpoint, so I did these two as a double feature.

It's a little unfair to Crystal Skull, in my opinion, but okay. I thought you were just trying to see how much Spielberg had grown as a filmmaker over the years in between. A lot. Well, here's what's embarrassing. You watch Raiders of the Lost Ark, barely any CGI. He didn't know how to use it yet. Yeah, he hadn't mastered the CGI yet. The animals are real, and it's like, this guy's a fucking amateur.

And plus, a disappointing amount of Ray Winstone in that one. Hardly any. I know. I mean, if I spotted him, it might have been a mirage. I think he played one of the dates. Yeah, yeah. One of the bad dates. He's John Rhys-Davis' hat.

Okay, carry on. Sorry. So he likes Indiana Jones. So I was watching Indiana Jones last night, right? Rare's The Last Ark. And just trying to go like, okay, what is it that crystallized, pun unintended, in this movie that made this character really sticky in the culture, you know? And it's like there are very few examples of action heroes who are that cerebral. Like,

India Jones is this weird example of someone who's, like, a two-fisted, you know, kind of, like, adventure hero who's also, like, a big dork is driven by, like,

wanting to support a museum and is able to, like, lecture at the drop of a hat. Right. And I think because Harrison Ford is often written off as just being like a movie star first and an actor second you know yeah definitely he's unfairly right i would say

maligned you know certainly yes and treated by his peers as such yes and also he's got this reputation of like he hates doing press he's crank he's a grump he's a stoner you know like he's contradictory things but both of them are either like, either he's just a misanthrope and he hates everything, or he's a stoner and he's not paying attention to anything. And I think he likes that Indiana Jones allows him to be an intellectual, while also harnessing

everything that he's innately good at. The other factor is, Harrison Ford owns a piece of Indiana Jones. Right, so he gets the money. Right. He doesn't really have any vested interest in Star Wars. It was a job. I think he feels an auth piece of Indiana Jones. Right, so he gets the money. Right. He doesn't really have any vested interest in Star Wars. It was a job. I think he feels an authorship over Indiana Jones. That makes sense.

I mean, that's why he got so pissed off at Shia LaBeouf. Yes, but the other part of it is— Also because Shia LaBeouf was being annoying. Yeah, being a little fart. Yeah. But the other part of it is, and interesting counterpoint to Ghostbusters, which was rebooted in 2016, Year of Our Lord. It was? It was.

Did anyone have anything to say about that? Or was that, did that sort of pass unnoticed? Well, and it's bizarre because the Ghostbusters are women in this one. In Indiana Jones and the King of the Crystal? Yes. Yes. They could have done with a couple of lady Ghostbusters in that movie. There is one.

Her name's Irina Spalko and she's played by Cate Blanchett. I think she gets busted and not by ghosts. She does get busted. It didn't make me feel good. Yes, go on. Cancel this show. No, no, no. As you wanted to say

about the Ghostbusters reboot starring Melissa McCarthy. There were deals in place with Indiana Jones and Ghostbusters, two of the big franchises of the 80s that I think you will

never see replicated ever again in this capacity. Where the stars have a piece of it. And not only that, two of the big franchises of the 80s that I think you will never see replicated ever again in this capacity. Where, like, the stars have a piece of it. And not only that, they have the piece to block it. Uh, aha. Right, right, right, right. So Ghostbusters, it was like... Bill Murray could be a little shit and be like, I don't like this script and you can't do anything without me.

Ramis, Murray, Aykroyd, and Reitman all had equal voting rights for Ghostbusters and no one could do anything with Ghostbusters without the four of them. Yeah, but Aykroyd, you don't got to worry about that guy. Right. I mean, you could just give him a bag of potato chips and say, like, it's Ghostbusters 3. Here's the script. And he'd be like, this looks great. Let's do this right now.

For so long, they couldn't make a Ghostbusters 3, not only because Bill Murray didn't want to do it and wouldn't read the script, but because even if they tried to do one without him, they couldn't do it until he said thumbs up. And he was like, I don't want to exist it and wouldn't read the script, but because even if they tried to do one without him, they couldn't do it until he said thumbs up. And he was like, I don't want to exist. And they finally like... We've talked enough about Ghostbusters. India Jones is the same thing, where Lucas, Spielberg, and Ford,

all three have to approve at the same time. Like pressing a button simultaneously? Yeah, right. It's like a nuclear launch. Yes, it is. It's harder, though. Right. You gotta time it exactly.

You gotta time it exactly, and George Lucas has to agree, it is. It's like a nuclear bomb. It's harder, though. Right. You gotta time it exactly. You gotta time it exactly, and George Lucas has to agree, which is not easy. Yeah. Right, well, that was the problem, right? It means specifically George Lucas. Yeah. And each of them gets like 11% of the first dollar gross. Not bad. Like 33%

of that movie's gross went to the three of them. So, yeah. Harrison Ford likes money a lot. He talks about this openly. He loves doing stuff for money. He doesn't lower his quote. That's why, you know, in the early 2000s, his career sort of torpedoed when he... He makes movies like Firewall.

Because it would pay him $20 million. Firewall. And he turned down a lot of more interesting roles where he could have evolved into becoming an elder statesman character actor. Yeah, sure, whatever. True. Agreed on all points. So these are reasons why Harrison Ford loves Indiana Jones.

He loves Indiana Jones, and so they made another Indiana Jones. How many years later was it? It was 18, 19? Something like that. 89 to 2008. It's 19 years. 19 years later, they made Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. So the first three Indiana Jones movies

all contained within one decade, right? Erlich, what do you think of Indiana Jones? Overall? As a guy and as a franchise. Let's say, before Crystal Skull, were you an indie fan? Or were you sort of an indie... I was conversant in the indie world. But it wasn't your...

I work at IndieWire, after all. That is true. Which was founded by Indiana Jones. It was. And then we realized that he only had four movies to talk about, and we would occasionally dip into the Adventures of Young Indiana Jones and the video game that was made. Oh, the LucasArts video game. Very, very good.

With Atlantis. The Atlantis. But even then, could only generate enough content for one, maybe two days. And so we had to diversify. You sold out, started talking about independent films. Exactly. And the rest is history. And that's the origin story of IndieWire.

But I... And your editor is a Crystal Skull alien. Yes. We have to submit all of our pitches to the Crystal Skull. Through John Hurt. They all spin around you as you read your copy. Like Tony Erdman listicle and it's like raw.

Great. John Goodman starts like whacking spoons together. I mean John Hurt. What am I talking about? I wish John Goodman would be so good as Oslo. John Goodman would be fun

in this movie. I think Indiana Jones is fine. I think that Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a borderline masterpiece but we'll get there. That's why we got you here. But, yeah, the movies, very few movies of this ilk have a special place in my heart.

I did not watch them repeatedly as a child. They did not sort of, were not branded upon my brain. But in a way that, like, the Lord of the Rings films did. I don't know. Maybe I just gave more of a shit then or was in like a more formative stage of my life. I grew up brain aged later. I don't know, but they're fine movies.

I like them. These are important points. One is that I feel like you take a pretty hard stance against franchise filmmaking right now. As many film critics do, but I feel- Not out of principle, just by proxy of watching the movies. Sure. I feel like when I read your reviews of whatever the latest entry is in any

major franchise, and sometimes you like them more and sometimes you like them less, there's a real palpable frustration with what has happened to American film culture. Yeah, that would be fair. Yes. It's because usually you don't have actual artists behind the camera on these films, and they are not given a set of guidelines that are amenable towards making art. Yeah. All true. And I think the other thing is you don't have a sort of reverential nostalgia for the movies of your childhood. I have an active antipathy for the movies of my childhood.

I didn't want to say that, but yes. They made me into the man I am today, and who wants to be that? Yes. Stranger things can kiss my ass. Well, stranger. They made me into the man I am today, and who wants to be that? Stranger Things can kiss my ass. Stranger Things can kiss all of our asses. How could you watch something by guys named the Duffer Brothers? Have some self-respect. Come on.

I don't have a lot of self-respect, but I did not finish Stranger Things. That's the only bit of self-respect I've ever had, turning off Stranger Things. It was a banner day for me. I was moving when Stranger Things happened. Yeah.

I was like moving apartments and I was just like. Listen, if I wanted to watch a movie from the 80s, I'd pop in a little film I like to call Broadcast News. All right. Hey. You're in the right place. One of the best. But as far as this nostalgic horseshit goes, the Indiana Jones movies.

Is there something? I mean, at least two of them are excellent. Yes. At least two of them are excellent. Yes, at least two of them are excellent. I would agree with that. But the point is, it's not a franchise that you revere. It doesn't have some sort of emotional corridor in your heart. Which is the same for me. I mean, I liked Indiana Jones.

But respect the craft. I've got to tell you this right now. I've just got to come out and say this. I was thinking about this when you were talking about Harrison Ford as a guy. I would not be sad if he died. Wow, that's just crazy. I'm not saying that I want him to come out and say this. I was thinking about this when you were talking about Harrison Ford as a guy. I would not be sad if he died. Wow. That's just crazy. I'm not saying that I want him to die.

You're just saying like, all right, all right. Okay. Okay, Ehrlich. All right. She's got a few things to say. Should I cut that out? No, no. Keep it in.

Keep it in. Double it. I do know what you're saying. Yeah, double it. You know what I'm saying? Is that like- Reverb. All we do now is-

I agree with this 100% what you're about to say. And I did this in professional capacity is just mourn celebrities. We all get together on social media and process our loss through them. And I am certainly not not hoping that he dies. Neither am I. I hope that he lives a long and happy life. I am hoping just because I'm in his world. But go on.

I just have I have no personal connection to him as a human being whatsoever and there's nothing for me to connect to I felt sort of the same way about Carrie Fisher until I saw Bright Lights and then she died and I started engaging with her and I was like oh I can understand her as a person I didn't feel that way about her because when it feels like something is very unfinished

it's very heartbreaking for me I don't usually get affected by celebrities dying because it's sort of how much of my energy can I devote to these things? You know, I just can't be sad all the time, essentially. I refuse to be. But things like Carrie Fisher or someone where it just feels like, no, no, no,

it's just too bad. There was more to happen here. I think it's an extension of the fact that he really, yes, he has Witness and he has Firestorm, Firewall, Firewall, but like he is really, in my Firestorm. Firewall, Firewall. Firewall. But he is really, in my mind, an extension of these franchises.

He is not a real person so much as he is this anthropomorphic icon from these movies. And if he died, it would be the same to me as closing a ride at Disney World. You'd just be like, well, it had a good run. Yeah, and they put it into storage. Ben, if Harrison Ford has died by like, God knows, April 20th or whenever this is. Yeah, we're recording this episode in March of 2008. Before Crystal's Bill comes out.

Listen, there are 7 billion people on this planet. I can't get bent out of shape for all of them. But yeah, I do think it's a good point. I mean, like, Han Solo is like one of my Han Solo's a big deal. Touchstone film characters, you know, especially in my childhood.

Is that the character's name in Firewall? Yes. You mean that Alden Ehrenreich character? Yes. But I don't feel like I have an emotional

attachment to him. I certainly felt more of an emotional attachment to Carrie Fisher, and I think that probably has more to do with her public persona. Yeah, sure, of course. The thing I found very emotional attachment to Carrie Fisher, and I think that probably has more to do with her public persona. Yeah, sure.

Of course. Yeah. The thing I found very upsetting about the Carrie Fisher thing was that it felt like she had really sort of reclaimed control of her narrative in the last couple of years. And it was a very exciting thing to watch. And she was a strong advocate for people with mental illness and also. Yeah, she was an icon for beyond Princess Leia or whatever. Part of this conversation, part of her personal narrative involved being

I don't know what the right word is but sexually You're in dry sand. Involved with Harrison Ford in a way that was unflattering towards him. Right, that was right at the end there. That was like her final move. It did not speak

too well of his behavior towards women at a certain point in his life. Certainly. You know, 30-year-old Harrison Ford, a bit of a shit. Yeah, he was like 35 and she was like 19. Yeah, man. Hey, but you know what? I'd fuck Harrison Ford when I was 19 and he was 35.

I'd do it. you're just looking at me so the podcast is can I just chime in guys oh yeah producer Ben aka the Ben Dusser aka the producer Ben aka the poet laureate

aka the Haas aka the tiebreaker aka the fart detective aka the meat lover aka close personal friend of Dan Lewis aka white hot Benny I don't even remember that one

you'll remember it go on go on aka the poet laureate aka hell'll remember it. Go on, go on. A.K.A. The Poet Laureate, A.K.A. Hello Funnel. I just remembered it. Go on. Thank you. He has graduated

to certain titles over the course of different miniseries, such as Ben Knight, Shyamalan, Ben Sate, Producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo Ben, Say Ben Anything,

Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign. There you go. He did it. It's gotten longer since you were here last. Producer Ben Hosley. Hey, Ben, what's up? To the point about Carrie Fisher, Ailey Benz with a dollar sign. There you go. He did it. It's gotten longer since you were here last. Producer Ben Hosley. Yeah.

Hey, Ben, what's up? So to the point about Carrie Fisher, I feel the same way, but actually like about Chevy Chase. I'm going to be really sad when he goes

and I feel like he's really cleaned up his act in the later years. Oh. I don't think that's true. I was hoping you were going to say you felt the same way about Chevy Chase

that I do Harrison Ford. You're just like, Chevy Chase is gone. You're like, salute. No, man. I'm going to be sad. I know you're going to be sad when Chevy Chase dies, man. Are they going to do another vacation movie, you think? Like an old vacation movie?

Well, they did the fucking Ed Helms thing. He's already passed on the fedora. Oh, my God. Remember the Ed Helm? They passed on the RV. But I think you've got to pick your spots. You know, I mean, like, we're going to get into a point now when, because with the baby boomers and celebrity culture coming of age in its own way in the middle of the 20th century, where there are going to be people that we regard as famous who die every day in great volume.

This is true. And you're going to have to pick your spots. And, like, for me, last year, January will put into a division all of its own. But after that, you know, it was like Abbas Kiarostami over the summer for you cinephiles out there. And that wrecked me. I was weeping in the lobby of a movie theater in the Czech Republic. And that sort of inured me to a lot of the celebrity deaths that came later. I was like, I don't know.

I got it out. For me, it's just, you know, once in a while, there's just one where I'm like, ah, that one matters to me more, I guess. I don't know. I mean, like, people die every day. Like, Anton Yelkin fucked me up because he was so upsetting. Philip Seymour Hoffman's like the big disruptor for me. Gene Wilder, because I always kind of hoped he was going to come back. He at least had a nice run, but yes.

He had a great run. But he was maybe my favorite actor. Billy Crystal. Billy Crystal's skull? Okay, so we're recording this episode in January. It won't come out in April. What if we pick celebrities

who we think are going to die in the next three months? No, no, enough bad karma. I compiled the list of the people that I thought we should pre-write obituaries for. So Bill Crystal's top of the

list. But I put some, you know, like everyone was like, it's a Kirk Douglas, obviously, but like there were a lot of people in there who were in their 50s or 60s that I was just

like, I got a feeling. I think they're perfectly healthy. But I wouldn't be surprised if you read, like, Eddie Murphy dead. I don't know. That would be a weird one. That would be crazy if Eddie Murphy. The thing about someone like Eddie Murphy is it's like, then you're like, okay, so now do we finally get to know, like, what was up with that guy? You know, there's a few people where it's like they're not like out of public life exactly but they're practically

out of public life. Like Irina Spalko you want to know. You want to know. So let's be three Irina Spalkos. That was as classy a segue as I could come up with.

An excellent segue away from the presumed death of Eddie Murphy. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Billy Crystal Skull. Now that's a movie.

If it's Billy Crystal when they put the head on and he's like, hey! That'd be good. If he starts performing his one-man play. Yeah, he's just like, 700 Sundays. He does the fucking jazz character. My dad and the Yankees and oh my God. Mickey Man.

I could make fun of Billy Carson. Every Sunday, my father and I would go out and search for the Ark of the Covenant. If we had only had the good sense to nominate Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for Best Picture, and he had hosted the Oscars that year, which statistically could have. This could have happened. Your dream could have been a reality. I know he did host the Oscars this year. He hosted the Oscars recently, and as Ben is referencing, did blackface.

That happened during the Obama administration. He did that for a Katrina fundraiser. Is that true? Yes. He did Jazzman. I was watching that Jimmy Fallon blackface thing. What? That is fucking crazy.

He played Chris Rock in blackface on SNL. In full blackface. What? In like, what is it it probably like 2001 2002 somewhere around there and so then when he was hosting the golden globes he was like oh i've got a really good idea when he was doing the chris rock everyone was like oh that was kind of odd and everyone was like you thought that was not you should see his old chris rock impression and here's the other thing snl oh my. Can I see the picture? Yes.

The picture works every time. When Jimmy Fallon dies, that should be the photo that runs next to it. We would tweet this out from the blank check pot again, but we don't want to get banned. Can I just throw out there, SNL moves so fast and is a live show that they had to commit to like, we're going to put him in full blackface including his hands and body and take Jimmy Fallon out of five consecutive sketches in order to do like they had to put so much thought into like yes this is a good idea that we should commit to.

Crazy. Also Jimmy Fallon in blackface never on Herald Night. So Indiana Jones can win the Crystal Skull. I think about 1999 like 10 years after Last Crusade, which at the time they thought, like, this is it. Book closed.

It's called The Last Crusade after all. They ride off into the sunset. That was the last one. Yeah, but the first movie in the series was called Final Destination, and there were five of them. Fuck. So. That's probably what Harrison Ford said to George Lucas and Steven Spielberg.

That's what changed his mind. When Final Destination 2 came out, he was like, see, they're doing it. So he, they start talking again. They start talking again, right? And Lucas is in his prequel land. Yeah, he's making the prequels. And they hire a series of writers. They're sort of revolving door.

So, I mean, I know Darabont, obviously, but who else was out there? Jeff Nathanson, who gets a story credit, who did Catch Me If You Can in the terminal with Spielberg. Here's the thing about Jeff Nathanson. Wrote Catch Me If You Can, a movie we both like. Apart from that... Like? Love. We love Catch Me If You Can.

I think it's a masterpiece. How dare you? We just raved it on a previous episode. It's so good. I said I think it's one of his finest. It is. Here's Jeff Nathanson's career. Speed 2 Cruise Control. The Three Rush Hours? No. Only 2 and 3?

2 and 3. Not even 1. And I don't know if 1 is like a better tip, you know, flower in your hat, but just 2 and 3, that's not looking good. The Terminal. Yeah. Then he writes and directs that movie The Last Shot, the movie-making comedy with Matthew Broderick. Remember that?

And Baldwin, yeah. And then Tower Heist. Which is good. Takes a long break, and now he's the writer of Pirates of the Caribbean 8 or whatever. The new one. Yeah. Bardem. Talk about franchises I want them to reboot.

I would love to see a new- Those cocky motherfuckers don't even put the series name in the teaser for the Bardem one. It's just the goddamn skull and crossbones. It's just Bardem going like, would you tell him that for me? Please. I'm a captain jerk. I'd like to say maybe we should get coffee sometime. And juice some caramels.

I turned into a hammerhead shark. What the fuck? I love how they're like, what do people love about the Pirates of the Caribbean series? It's a ship of pirates that turned into some weird thing, right? Yeah, that's the whole thing. That's what they want, right? Yeah. Nobody cares about that.

Yeah, I also. Who cares about the fucking cursed pirates? The other ones are like. They're all like sailing into some goddamn like sector of the Indian like- They're all sailing into some goddamn sector of the Indian Ocean. They're all turning into mollusks. It's ridiculous. It's also like, okay, first one, what is it? They're skeletons.

Second one, what is it? Sea monsters. Yeah, they're fish. Right? They're fish people. Third one, they're like samurai pirates? Yeah, yeah, sure. Right, right, right.

I didn't see the fourth one. Fourth one, I haven't seen either, but it's Zombie Pirates. That's the whole idea. The fifth one, you watch the trailer, and I've seen the trailer like five times now.

I can't figure out what Bardem and his crew are supposed to be. They're like particle people? Yeah, like some of them isn't there anymore. They're deteriorating, but in slow motion in the air.

They look like that Drake Sprite commercial where his head opens up and all the pieces fly out. Now that, if Drake in the Sprite commercial was the villain of Pirates of the Caribbean, Drake tells those tales. Is he not? We can't talk about that because I'm currently in the middle of a class action lawsuit with the Sprite people for their drink not actually splitting my head open, allowing me to engineer better rap music. You're a hero and tort reform is made for you.

Have I ever told the story of when I finally convinced my parents to buy me Gushers from the supermarket and I thought I had the hot tip from the commercials? And I literally was like, open up the pack, turn to my parents and went, stand back. But I expected that my head was going to turn into a watermelon. And I was like, stand back.

You're an impressionable, idiotic child. Very impressionable, very idiotic. So, Crystal Skull, 2008. Yeah, well, when this movie really starts cooking is after Revenge of the Sith is done. Sure. And now Lucas... Lucas can devote his full attention. Right, he's like, ah, finally I get to kick back and relax. And he does that for approximately

15 minutes before he's like, oh, fuck, how do I meddle with something else? Right. Now, Frank Darabont had submitted a script, had been hired to write a script called Indiana Jones and the City of Gods. Okay. Okay. Right?

That's an okay title. That script was delivered to them in 2013. And Spielberg was- 2013? What are you talking about? 2003? Yes. I'm sorry.

2003. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm an idiot. Yeah, you are. We already established. Very impressionable. Very idiotic. M. Night Shyamalan wrote a script as well. Oh, yeah. We should'm sorry. 2003. Yes, I'm sorry. I'm an idiot. Yeah, you are. We already established. Very impressionable. Very idiotic.

M. Night Shyamalan wrote a script as well. Oh, yeah. We should make clear. Yeah. I wonder what that thing was. That was the script that was in the back of Vinny Chase's or E's car, I think, that he- It's a great episode. Yeah.

You know what I'm talking about. Indiana Jones and the Lady in the Water. I was going to say it was just Lady in the Water, and then he rewrote it to make it a handyman. He made Paul Giamatti. Yeah. Alright. Go ahead. Okay. So 2003, Darabont draft. Spielberg looks at it. He goes, hey now. Big thumbs up. Ford looks at it.

He goes, hey now. Big thumbs up. It had like, it's set in the 50s. It had like ex-Nazis. It was like inspired by the like Argentinian Nazi stuff. Have you read the script? No, I've never read it. I have. It is very easily findable on the internet. Sure, sure. I don't read these things. I can't be bothered.

Well, I, my, in the summer of 2008, my best friend Derek Simon, I believe, has been referred to previously on the podcast, was working at the Weinstein Company. Okay, so you read the script. He was a script reader and he found it on the shelf, physically. Okay, so you read the script. He was a script reader, and he found it on the shelf. Okay. Physically.

So you read the script. Tell me about the script before we get to the actual movie. It's really similar to Crystal Skull. Uh-huh. Except no Mutt Williams. Interesting. Marion Ravenwood is actually a part of the plot. Sure.

And the bad guy is Yuri, a Russian who Indiana Jones fought alongside. Uh-huh. So it's like what happened after World War II. Right. American-Russians allies and then enemies. And they split up, and he sort of takes the Irina Spalko role, and then the Mac role is Marion's. It's actually just Ray Winstone.

It's Ray Winstone, the actor. The Mac role is Marion's husband. Okay. Who seems like a British stuffy professor shirt and ends up being the turncoat and once he turns, he just turns. They don't do the fucking quadruple reverse. Well, it's actually just a double

reverse, but the third time was fake. It's a double switch and then Indiana Jones is the one actually moving himself around. Yeah. A lot of the same elements but no Mutt Williams is the big one. Right. Okay.

Fine. But the big kind of hook they had was, Poe Schindler's List Spielberg didn't want to put Nazis in his book. He didn't want to do Nazis. He was sick of Nazis. He was very clear with that. He said, like, now that I've done the serious film, I'm against using them as just sort of like a token of evil.

Mm-hmm. So they also noted there was a passage of time. Everyone had gotten older. So let's adjust it. Let's do the Soviets. Right. Let's do the Cold War. And then they had this sort of idea that was, well, we were making films that were set in the 40s.

Adventure serials, you know, pulp two-fisted heroes. That was the main sort of like pop iconography of that time. If we go to the 60s, we should make it be sci-fi movies. 50s, but yes. Sorry. But yes, that's the general idea, right? If the 30s serials were these fantasy adventures with jungles and savages and whips,

the 50s should be sci-fi serials with like spacemen and aliens and all that. Right. You know, Cold War era. So the Darabont script isn't perfect, but it's a much better version of what we got that is um more cohesive and is dominantly a man out of time and weirdly features the same ending that he would eventually use in the mist yes the exact same ending yeah

well that's a good ending in the mist yeah um but okay but it's the man at a time thing is the big but then lucas throws it out right Lucas goes no he is like here are all the things that I think are wrong with it and by accounts what I've heard is that Ford and Spielberg just went you know what George fine hire someone give them the notes have them write exactly what you want he does that

hired gun David Kapp David Kapp he rewrites the script and kind of just like takes the exact skeleton of what Darabont did and throws weird flesh on top of it. Right. I want to note some of the other titles. Indiana Jones and the Atomic Ants was the Nathanson script. David Koepp's was called Destroyer of Worlds.

Then he jokingly called it Indiana Jones and the Son of Indiana Jones. I believe Saucerman from Mars was at one point a title Jesus Christ and then Spielberg decided it should be called Kingdom of the Crystal Skull because it should have the word Crystal Skull on it I don't know these old guys sometimes I mean do you think Indiana Jones

and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a good title David Ehrlich I mean that's like asking me if Radiohead is a good band name. I can't think of... All I think of is Radiohead, the band. I think Radiohead's a good band name. I think it's probably a shit band name, but it's the best band in my lifetime.

And so I just think of it like, oh, that's what their band name is. And Crystal Skull's the Radiohead of movies. Right, and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. It's like I would be unable to tell you if it's a good or bad title because it is the movie that I know and love. Extremely good answer from David Ehrlich.

The point here, though, is that by all accounts, Lucas supervised rewrite now that he's got time to focus on it after Sith. And they just go like, fine, you know what? We're never going to get it made without his approval. We're more likely to bend to his whims than he is to ours. Ford's getting old. Let's get this done. Let's do it. They just fucking do it. They peel it off. The movie comes out. It does well.

People dislike it. It's dormant. The first time I believe George Lucas publicly steps out with his now wife, Melanie Hobson, is at the premiere of the movie at the Cannes Film Festival. She's the one who, by all accounts, encouraged him to sell Lucasfilm

to let go, to enjoy life, to get back to the museum. Which is why now Lucas has no part of Indiana Jones 5, right? Same with Star Wars, you know, he doesn't have control and that's when Disney went, oh, now we're doing a new Indiana Jones, it's Spielberg and Ford back again, but no Lucas, no Lucas, I promise you no Lucas. Isn't it crazy when it

was the whole publicity tour before like the Force Awakens or whatever was just Disney being like, it's great. We're going to make new movies. Like huge subtext. George Lucas is not here. Yeah. He's nowhere near any of this anymore.

What if they cast Alden Ehrenreich to play? Indiana Jones? Indiana Jones. Yeah. What if they cast him to play Mutt Williams? Yeah. Is Shia going to come back? I don't think so.

Unless he can do it in the guise of one of his, what's that group called that he does? The art, the performance art. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, they can just be like, your new thing is you pretend to be Matt Williams and talk to Harrison Ford. I think Shia's getting there. I think he's almost looped all the way back around. As he runs out of money, he's getting there. I mean, look, I don't know about Shia's personal finances.

I do. But so at this point in time, Harrison Ford has been working very sporadically. Yeah, that's true. Years off. I mean, he had a couple of big flops in a row where, like, Random Hearts underperformed. K-19 was a big flop. Hollywood Homicide was a big flop. And then he, like, takes some years off, and it's like

Firewall was his comeback, and it didn't really land. Yeah, just to give you his 2000s. Yeah, What Lies Beneath, which is great. That's a big hit. No. K-19. Yeah, you're very anti-Zemeckis, and I'm sort of quasi-anti-Zemeckis. I'm with you after What Lies Beneath.

K-19, which is kind of a flop. Huge flop. Hollywood Homicide. Huge flop. Firewall in 06, and then this. So yeah, he's been taking it easy. Yeah. After this, he starts making stuff.

He comes back, and it's less special. Yeah, and then it's just like, oh, there's Harrison Ford in Ender's Game. Right. And he's gruff. Yeah. He sure is gruff. He starts doing Comic-Con too many times. It's like all that blooms off the roof.

Oh, yeah. I was at Comic-Con when they brought him out for Cowboys and Aliens in handcuffs. Fucking Cowboys and Aliens. And then they brought me in handcuffs to go see that fucking movie. It was awful. And weirdly it was also Jon Favreau leading you in the handcuffs, personally escorting you into the theater. Shia

on the other hand, you know, auditions for Transformers. Spielberg looks at the tape and goes, not only is this the guy we're hiring, but I think this is the next Tom Hanks. And personally, like, curates Shia LaBeouf as the next leading man. Because he also produces Eagle Eye, doesn't he? And Disturbia. And Disturbia, which is a huge hit.

Right. Remember, Disturbia was a big hit. And Eagle Eye makes $100 million. Disturbia Eyes. Disturbia Eyes. The Servia's premise is, like, why don't we just take a Hitchcock movie and then just make it dumb enough for teenagers? Pretty much.

There's a winning formula. DJ Caruso and Shia LaBeouf almost got the rights to Why the Last Man based on Disturbia's success. Yeah. Well, so he makes Transformers first and then that movie with a long post-production schedule. Spielberg's like,

I need to get you a smaller kind of like B, you know, programmer. Right, so we can have another movie this year. To release before Transformers to sort of roll out the carpet. That comes out three months earlier, does surprisingly well, and Transformers that summer. Vandy Fair is like, here's the next guy. They have their cover where it's him in the astronaut suit and it says like, the star has landed.

And like there's this big push of like. No wonder he went insane yeah right yeah it makes perfect sense and they're like LaBeouf's the guy yeah and then it's like

okay he's gonna do two more Transformers he's the kid in Indiana Jones and he does Eagle Eye he does this run of DreamWorks movies that all make over also Wall Street 2

let's not forget that's like the last one well it's the same year as Transformers 3 right that's what I'm saying it's that run of like Disturbia Transform the same year as Transformers 3. Right. That's what I'm saying. It's that run of like Disturbia Transformers 1

Indiana Jones Transformers 2 Eagle Eye Transformers 3 all those movies are huge hits and Wall Street opens big.

Wall Street's 10 Transformers 3's 11. It doesn't matter. Whatever. The point is he had a thing where like seven consecutive movies

of his opened to number one. And everyone was like I guess Spielberg pulled it off. I guess LaBeouf is the guy. And then LaBeouf was like, fuck the world. I'm losing my mind. Right. Right now.

But Mutt Williams, not widely well received. I think that. Agreed. It was, that probably tipped LaBeouf's hand. Yes. In going, deciding that this wasn't the path for him. And very notably, he within a year of the movie coming out, while doing press for whatever

his next movie was, started shit-talking the movie and the character a lot. And the character, and kind of Steven Spielberg and Harrison Ford. And the machinery. He's like, these guys aren't artists anymore. It's this thing. I want to make stuff I really care about. Yeah, I looked up to those guys and meh. And I love Indiana Jones and it sucks to feel like i'm the fucking jar jar yeah

shut up shia nobody cares but spielberg like flips out and him is like this is about selling cars wait like no one to shut up called himself the jar jar or i believe he did because that is a double a double fuck you yes that's true because you're getting lucas in there as well he like burned everyone that's just efficient and spielberg kind of pushed him out and was, like, you know, ungrateful. And then, like, Shia's been in the wilderness since then. In the wilderness of Lars von Trier. I mean, that's an upgrade as far as I'm concerned. Well, maybe not from the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, but certainly from Eagle Eye and the Transformers films.

Yeah, the thing is, I feel like after Eagle Eye, it's like, Shia's not really opening any movies. Obviously, there's the two Transformers movies. They opened themselves. But Eagle Eye does so weirdly well. It did okay. $100 million for that movie is pretty impressive. When Michelle Monaghan is second build. Yeah.

That was sold on him. Eh, whatever. I'm not impressed. I just think it's interesting because that's after Crystal Skull. I think it takes like two years for everyone to start resenting him for Mutt Williams. Sure. Like there was such a like overexposure thing where then it like took some time for him to step away and be like, wait, do we actually like this guy or are we just being told that we like this guy? Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, let's stop debating Shia LaBeouf's arc of his career. I think once Transformers 2 comes out on top of, as you're saying, a year of thinking about it, people are like, all right, let's see something new from Shia LaBeouf. And now we have. And it's called American Honey. And I love him in it. And how do you feel about him in it, David? I love him in it.

Because we all found love in a hopeless place with him. My point is just that the big shift between the Darabont draft and the draft that eventually got the inclusion of the kid. And that's like Lucas's big thing is he wants the kid. And then Spielberg sees that as a vehicle to like push his kid from being a movie star to being an icon. Well, some would argue that the inclusion of the kid character is what makes Kingdom of the Crystal Skull the special effective film that it is. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, the special, effective film that it is that completely galvanizes

the narrative and bridges together the duality that Griffin was talking about earlier about Harrison Ford wanting to have a role that speaks to his

intellectual side and also his physical rigor. Please do this. We'll get there. We'll get there in due time. Well, let's start talking about the movie.

Let's start talking about the movie. So the movie starts with something that's straight out of the Derontrap. I'm not going to keep comparing it.

Just don't because it doesn't matter. I was just going to say, I think the first 21 minutes of this film, up to and including the fridge nuking scene, are some of the best action filmmaking ever made. I fucking love the first 20 minutes of this movie. I'll go this far. I think the movie works until minute 55. Oh, I think the movie works until minute 100 and whatever. I guess we should all give it a go. I just think that he is operating

at a level that matches or exceeds anything in the previous Indiana Jones film. And he's having so much fun. And, you know, we've been doing Spielberg, so we've been like, you know, basically from Saving Private Ryan, but certainly from AI through to this, you know, through to War of the Worlds. Spielberg's not having no fun. I guess Catch Me If You Can, but that's such a melancholy movie.

And then the terminal is him trying to have fun, and, you know, it feels like he's trying to mix chemicals together. Like, you know, it doesn't feel fun at all. And that's the same thing with Lost World. Right, right. It falls into two camps where it's either, like— How do you forget to have fun? Haunted, melancholy, and it's him exploring shades of gray. Where's the movie where Spielberg meets a young woman blowing through town who reminds him how to have fun in the mid-aughts?

He should make a vehicle for himself as an actor. Yeah, no, that's- Who would play Spielberg in a movie, in like a biopic one day? Griffin Newman? I wasn't going to say it myself. All right. David Sims. Yeah, David Sims. So I just want going to say it myself. All right. David Sims. Yeah, David Sims.

So I just want to say, yeah, I saw this movie in 2008. Opening night at the Ziegfeld. I saw it at the AMC Lincoln Square. I didn't have a job. I'd just moved to New York City. Did you see it at the Ziegfeld, Erla? Opening night at the Ziegfeld. Oh, the Ziegfeld.

Okay, yeah. And I ran into, there used to be a guy, I wish I could remember his name, but if you ever went to go see a movie at an AMC, certainly an AMC in New York around that time, the pre-show guy was like this generic white guy with brown hair. I love him so far. And he's like, I'm this guy. If you saw his face, you'd be like, holy shit.

It would touch you at like a Proustian level. Right, it would be like a Madeline. Yeah, and he sat in front of me at opening night at the Ziegfeld, and I lost my goddamn mind. And I was just like, you're the guy. And we have, like, a picture. It's, like, probably, like, the first photo on my Facebook. Was this the guy who hosted the 20?

Was it the 20? Yeah, possibly. It was possibly the guy who hosted the 20. I used to be a big fan of the 20. You would, like, dissect it. Before it went to, like, AMC First Look or whatever it was. Well, it's Regal First Look. I guess it's AMC First Look.

No, I think it had AMC. First Look became, like, the brand. Right. And then suddenly it was you couldn't escape it. I liked the 20. You liked the 20. Now I'm remembering. I went to see it. I got a phone call 10 minutes in offering me a job at a chess

shop in New York City. I had just moved to New York. So I left the theater, took the job. What? Yeah. I had literally just moved back to New York City. And so I did not see Indiana Jones and then I went back a week later and saw it. It was a packed house at the AMC Lincoln Square. I only remember this because a guy

came in, sat next to me, pulled his hat over his eyes, fell asleep during the trailers. Slept through the whole movie. It was George Lucas. I was just like, what is why are you doing this? Why did you do this? I was just so fascinated with this man.

Like, I couldn't tell if he was just bouncing from theater to theater all day, maybe, just sleeping. But from the moment that Gopher pops up and you have that, there's just, one of the things that I love about this movie, and you see this also in The Adventures of Tintin, some of the better parts of War of the Worlds, is this real fluid sense of kineticism. The way the camera moves, the way that it stitches things together, every camera shot is so elegantly choreographed and beautifully motivated. And you get that right from the start with him driving down the road and the girls and the Russians and the way that they all flower out so that they can assassinate the people. I love that.

The guy taking the knee to tie his shoes. But you're talking about the fun. The guy taking the knee to tie his shoes. But you're talking about the fun. I think that it is what you guys were talking about earlier as far as the 50s sci-fi hokiness. That's what gives him permission to have this kind of fun in a way that he had been missing for a little while. I think he needed to tap into a wheelhouse

that he was really familiar with. I agree. Igor Dziedzikini plays Dostoevsky or whatever his name is. What a face. What a face. That guy's got a scary fucking face. If I can just,

I agree with that. That's the thing I love about Tintin is I think Tintin's able to sustain that from beginning to end because Tintin's a lot more singular in what it's focusing on.

It's very focused and sparse in terms of what's going on with the story. So it's able to just use that. Tinsley is Mission Impossible 3. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

That's a good call. So what's Indiana Jones? Nobody else has made anything on par with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. It's unto itself. So would you say this is your number one film of 2008? I can't imagine that's the case. It's probably my number one Spielberg film of 2008. How's that? Did he make anything else? No, that's the case. It's probably my number one Spielberg film of 2008. How's that?

Did he make anything else? No, that was the one. And this is his first film since War of the Worlds, right? So he'd taken a while. He took three years off. It's considerably better than War of the Worlds, I think. As a piece of film. I mean, because War of the Worlds has the disastrous third act and so on.

As we just discussed last week. Munich is between the two of us. Oh, right. Of course, Munich. Munich, one of his great films. This is a really underrated period in his career, as I hope you guys rediscover through this series. Totally. I mean, we have been, right?

Yeah. Absolutely. So, a month before this movie came out, I had not seen any of the Indiana Jones movies. Oh, so you're just not an indie kid. It was weird. It was not part of my childhood. I mean, I was more of a Star Wars kid, but I'd an indie kid. It was weird. It was not part of my childhood. I mean, like, I was more of like a Star Wars kid. Yeah.

But I'd seen them all. I liked them. Yeah. I think there was a point where I just felt like I had, through osmosis, absorbed everything that was Indiana Jones. Sure. And it wasn't like I didn't have an interest in seeing them, but I was like, I feel like I've seen them.

I know all the things. Okay, so then you watched them. I'm living with my roommate at the time. I mentioned that to him when we were talking about the new one coming out. And he's like, you haven't seen Indiana Jones. Right, and he has the box set. Oh, you haven't in love. Yeah.

You live with a kid, you're right. Yes. I was going more hot fuzz. Fair enough. I watched the three Indiana Jones movies the week leading up to Crystal Skull. So you were amped. I was amped, but it also wasn't like, I didn't have a decade or a lifetime

of processing what Indiana Jones was, what was mandatory in an Indiana Jones movie. It hadn't been written into your DNA. You had taken an Indiana Jones Viagra, not a Cialis. Right, it felt like I was binging a TV show, and I was like, okay, what's the next episode? I think that's how those work, right? Yes.

I'm 32, cut me some slack. Yeah, look, I can still get a hard-on. Another couple of years at least. A couple of years. I don't know what Trump's going to do. God knows he's going to take our hard-ons now. I interned... It's going to be so sad if everyone's hard-ons are already taken

by the time this episode comes out. Take that out, Ben, if that's happening. Make America hard again. I interned for Relativity, a company that is currently in shambles. Ryan Kavanaugh's company? Oh, Jesus. Currently in extreme bankruptcy court, right? Sharing an office with a soft core tits website.

Hey, man. Get the offices you can take. I don't know. Take the offices you can get. Sorry. But I interned for them at the can film festival in 2008 okay in their like uh hotel suite in you know where they were fucking trying to raise money and promote their shit and what have you yeah a very very bizarre experience but it was the year that

crystal skull was premiering at con sure and there was all this buzz and all this hype about the movie and no one had seen it it was super top secret and even in press they were like is about aliens and spielberg was like i don't know maybe yeah because the trailers are pretty light on all this hype about the movie, and no one had seen it. It was super top secret. And even in press, they were like, is it about aliens? And Spielberg was like, I don't know, maybe. Yeah, because the trailers were pretty light on details. It was just like, he swings on a whip. You know, like, it was very basic. And, like, yeah, I guess.

It wasn't just him going, like, you're a teacher? And then he goes, part time. Yeah, they did that. They did that shit. And they kept, like, even Karen Allen being in it, secret for a long time. Oh, no, she was at a. No, because they had that they did that shit and they kept like even Karen Allen being in it secret for a long time oh no she was at

no cause they had that picture I was at the Comic Con panel and she was I feel like they were denying it for a bit before they revealed it

they gaslighted us from being at Comic Con and they certainly they tried to like act like Mutt Williams wasn't his son they went like no

yes that is true they were like no he's playing a young character he's not Khan never heard of Khan he's playing what was the fake name of Khan where it's like he's John

Smith he's a new villain I think it's Harrison yes it's John Harrison he's a new villain with the great name of John Harrison he's gonna be great you you guys. Star Trek. It has lots of human villains who are just guys. Named John.

Famed. God, the worst fucking... That's not that long from now, isn't it? When is that? 2000? No, it's like 2013, actually. When that movie comes out, 2000. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a while. Anyway. Anyway. I'm at con where everyone's fucking flipping out about Indiana Jones. It's not a positive way or negative way, but there's all this, like, it's back. 19 years. And it's, like, Cannes is such a big promotional thing.

There's just, like, Indiana Jones shit everywhere. And, like, all the critics who are there are like, fuck this. Like, why is this taking up all this attention at Cannes? Like, this is supposed to be for, like, actual movies. And then, like, the public is just like, Indiana Jones. And, like, no one's seen it, but I just like am so excited by like all the hullabaloo. I of course can't see it when I'm there

because it's like, you're totally stacked. And I like fly back and I get back into New York the Friday night the movie comes out and I go to see it with my friends sold out at 34th Street. And I walk in,

I'm like, that's fine. That's like another Indiana Jones movie. Because I had just seen them all. You know, I was like, not great, not terrible. With more time, the things that are kind of, like the real sore thumbs of this movie stuck out to me more. And I think I downgraded this movie more in my memory

because I only remember the shitty parts. But you hadn't seen it again. But I hadn't seen it again. So I watched it in theaters, and then my friend does this thing every Black Friday where he watches all four Indiana Joneses and he puts them up against another quartet of films. Okay. And he watched them in alternating

and that's all about Friday. What? Who does this? He's a maniac. So it's like he starts at like 9 a.m. and it's like Raiders and then it's like Rambo, you know, and then it's...

Alvin and the Chipmunks. No, no, Raiders. You could do it with Alvin and the Chipmunks, sure. Rugrats is only four unless you include Wild Thornberry's movie it became a bit of a one year he did Alien

one year he did Rambo one year he did I can't remember he did various ones so I would keep seeing Crystal Skull at least in pieces and in pieces

I'd just be like fuck this it's like late and I'm drunk and I don't like it so that was my and I just watched it now and it's a great movie

I was like totally I totally turned around on that movie it'd be like it has its problems I'm yeah I'm not I'm not Mr. fucking you know kinetic aesthetics over here you don't like look at like a little tiny sliver of the Sistine Chapel when you're drunk and go like oh what is this shit no you have to this is a beauty this is a

finely calibrated machine that needs to be experienced in full. Hey, man. So I remember reading this interview with Spielberg where he talked about that he studied the original films a lot because he was like, I had to get back to a younger filmmaker and a simpler filmmaker. Like, I want these films to be consistent. And Douglas Slocum, who shot the first three movies, was retired at this point. And so he had his buddy Yanush shoot it. And Yanush was like, I had to fucking rewatch the movies and figure out how he shot it.

Make it look more like that. Right, because he's not doing a lot of his usual fun stuff. Yeah. Yanni, old big JK. And Spielberg says a lot in the press. He's not putting a lot of nets on those lenses. No, he's not netting those lenses. Spielberg says a lot in the press before this movie comes out, like, I watched those old

films and I saw how tactile they were and I really wanted to force myself to use as little CGI as possible. And the opening shot of the movie is a CGI gopher coming out of the turd. Hey man, the Paramount logo turns into a little gopher hill. It always turns into something. It's cute. It's cute. It's a CGI gopher.

Yeah, and you're just like really you could there are like there is like one thing that i don't like about this movie the gopher which is and it's no it's just the it's the cg really in the uh chase sequence in the jungle i think that sequence is that where the movie starts to fall i think that's that's where yeah if you're maybe not totally on board with the movie, you're suddenly like, I'm sick of this. This is no fun, essentially. Yeah. The CG in that scene is rough.

The monkeys, the sword fighting, all that. That's where people really, I think, point out. The swinging. I mean, it's a rough scene. But you wonder if Spielberg had, if you were George Lucas, he could do a special edition, go over, smooth that over, suddenly reveal the movie to be the masterpiece that I at least know that it is. But I've also... It's a pretty fucking good movie. I was just watching it and I was like, this is so much fun.

Why was I ever hard on this movie? It just fucking moves. It moves. Like, again... And I'm sitting down thinking like, God, what is this, like two hours, 25 minutes? It's two hours. I'm a die. I honestly think that, you know, and I inadvertently got myself...

hours on the dot. I honestly think that, you know, and I inadvertently got myself, I fell down a rabbit hole of finding parallels between the plot of this film and the rise of Donald Trump. But I guess. Yeah. I mean, we'll retweet David. I tweet storm. I do think that the one moment that that was sort of a presage, the nightmare that we're all currently living in, at least circa January of 2017. Who knows what's happening in April. I assume America is great again, as promised. America saw this movie and thought that the fridge nuking scene, rather than the beautiful apotheosis of everything that Indiana Jones stands for and has always been, and the perfect capper to this ridiculously entertaining, kinetic,

wild opening 20 minutes. Those first 30 minutes are fantastic. That ends in, I mean, there's this whole thing about the nuclear family that you see and represents everything that, and nuclear is a pun in this case, but it's also right on the money in terms of the family that Indiana Jones has never allowed himself to have, has never settled down for. His whole character is sort of this push and pull between familial obligations and the anchor that it provides

versus the freedom of being in the field, being tethered to academia. Also, the meta-commentary of Steven Spielberg nuking a suburban 50s household. Yes. Well, no, but I mean, it destroys the nuclear family because you have all the mannequins there on the couch watching TV with a, because you have all the mannequins there on the couch watching TV with a nuclear bomb.

And Indy getting in that mega fridge and riding it through a blast. It's a perfectly Spielbergian touch. And seeing the reaction to it, seeing it become synonymous with almost, in language, with jumping the shark. You've been trying to turn nuke the fridge into a term. I was like, we're doomed. We are 10 years tops away from full-on collapse. I said that out loud to the man from The 20 in front of me.

And he was like, hi! I don't like the movie as much as the two of you. I like it more than most people. I do think that section is unquestionably the best part of the movie. I think the part with him in the nuke test site is the best section of the movie it is it's it's clever it's like funny you know in like in an unusual way like and in a way that feels familiar and right for these movies i mean and the thing especially that bugs me everyone you know getting all high and mighty when fucking temple of doom is out there come on man. That movie's out of its goddamn gourd. Yeah.

And, like, you can't go ahead and tell me that, like, something, like, sacred and, what's the word, like, reverent about Indiana Jones had been disturbed by Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Like, the movies have always been, you know, silly. Yeah. Very silly. Like, Spielberg and Lucas's goal with Raiders of the Lost Ark was like, what if we made a movie that was only the good parts? You know, that was their thing.

They were like, what if you cut out all the thematic subtext and all the sort of plot development and you just made a movie that was only the exciting scenes. Every scene was what would be the coolest scene in another movie. And so they're meant as theme park rides. And, you know like deeper meaning you know sank in there

it snuck in the little corners and the wedges but you can't talk about this even like you can't really compare Indiana Jones even to Star Wars where Star Wars is like

a much more ambitious mythology yes whereas Indiana Jones is like adventures like each movie is just like here's another adventure

there's very little serialization. The character doesn't really change that much. But that becomes the subtext. Exactly. I've argued that the way that Indiana Jones grapples with that structure of his life and how isolating it is and so on is part of who he is. The key to the Indiana Jones franchise is there are similar things repeating and it's about the minor differences within that sort of repeating pattern.

And the sort of generational cycle that crops up which again is why Mutt Williams is so crucial to this movie. But I think that it really moves from start to finish. It does not slow down very much as Griffin was saying. But I mean just the shot choices the way that everything is cut together

in that opening sequence. The introduction of the shot choices, the way that everything is cut together in that opening sequence, the introduction of one of the, a villain that I have nothing but a deep and abiding love for in my heart. And, yeah, I was going to say not just because she's played by Cate Blanchett, which is accurate. You do like, you do like, say that. Is she your favorite living actress? No, I don't know about that. But she's certainly one of the better ones. And she is, you know, I think it's a, it's great to be Spielberg and cast incredible actors

at the height of their powers in hokey, fun roles like this and watch them have a field day with them. And Irina Spalko, a woman ahead of her time. She won the Order of Lenin

three times. Three fucking times. Yeah, and Kate only has one Oscar at this point. Two. Oh, at this point.

At this point. Excuse me. 2008. Sorry, sorry, sorry. And she only has one Oscar at this point. Two. Oh, at this point. At this point. Excuse me. 2008. Sorry. And she's, when you take the Blanchett out of the equation, is a pretty generic bad guy who's just Certainly, but I mean. But that's a part of the appeal. I think that's by design. Blanchett has a very nice time with it. It's a nice little ham sandwich. It's all about the affectation.

I mean, that's what a lot of these movies are. It's the part of the joy is relishing in these tried and true narrative formulas. Like a Black Forest ham, you know? Sure, yes. Hey, guys, could I say what didn't work for me? Uh-huh. Just, you know, I'm the voice of the people, so I just, you know, got to just emphasize that.

He doesn't get that nickname. No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. Well, I'm, like, saying the people like dummies like me. So, anyway, I like bits. You know this about me, guys. You do like bits a lot, yes. And I would say like comparatively,

you think of the original trilogy, there's the classic guy waving around the sword and then Indy shoots him, right? Sure. That's a good example of that sort of like sense of humor of those movies. And I feel like this one has a lot of that same stuff, but it's just hokey and old man ish and just like

it's not as good um and i don't have an exact example i feel like there's like a moment even with like the quicksand you know and it's like kind of this like i love that moment that's a great scene i don't know it doesn't work for me it's just like it doesn't feel the same it feels sort of like well uh seeing a comedian that you used to really love and seeing them again and they're just sort of like, I don't know, like bland. Well, I think there's... I would imagine that's probably how a lot of our listeners would guess. I think... You're welcome.

You watch... Rewatching Raiders last night, that is one of the most impressive set-up punchline movies ever. Like the whole key to that movie is we're going to set up this, either visually, either emotionally, either textually,

so that when it comes back, you know what is supposed to happen and the subversion is interesting. Right. You know, there's the tension. Okay, if the guy swings the sword around fast, you think it's going to be a fight. No, he's going to shoot him.

Or at the beginning on the chalkboard, he explains how the staff of Ra works, so you understand what needs to happen in the temple room. All that sort of shit. This movie doesn't really do that. This movie just has shit happen for like two hours. And it's a little more akin to a video game where it's just like, here's a new level. Let's enter a new environment.

What's the coolest stuff that could happen in this environment? I guess so. What are the pieces on the board? I don't know, man. What are the pieces on the board? I don't know, man. What are the levels? I just think that, you know, less to detract from the older

Indiana Jones movies and more to celebrate this one, I think that the relationship between he and Mutt, as annoying as Mutt can be, as off-putting as Shia LaBeouf can be in the role,

and like every time they cut to him, they have to first cut to his hand so he can flip his fucking knife. Yeah, he works really hard on that. It drives me crazy. He works really hard. You know, positioning Indiana Jones in the same position that his father was in the previous film

and turning this into sort of a cyclical thing and allowing him to reconcile his competing impulses of being in the field versus being at home, being alone versus being weighed down by actually giving a shit about other human beings and having to deal with the burden of them caring about him. I think that every scene, at least every scene that works, which is most of them, speak to that on some level. And the scenes that don't, what few they are, especially in the midsection.

Yeah, like the sort of late midsection. Yeah, like those are the ones that get away from it a little bit. There's the school stuff, right? Where he's like, yeah, you don't have to go to school. Oh, you gotta go to school. Come on. And all that fun little choreography, like taking the beer and Indiana

putting the beer back on the waiter tray. And all silently everything seems rhythmic and locked into very, very specific humor beats. Not realism. I think that entire motorcycle chase is the best set piece of the movie. And I think, like, even just-

Why do they dress him like fucking Brando? Like, just don't do that. Don't do that. We're not going to go through the plot in this episode, right? Don't dress him up like Brando. We should just keep on tackling different elements. I get that it's the 50s and you're doing all these 50s hallmarks, but just don't pick Brando. Can we focus on Mutt for a little bit?

You can't do Brando. His name is Mutt. That's the name he chose for himself. That's the name he chose for himself. Because he doesn't really know what he is. I'm annoyed that he gets offended. Indiana Jones named himself after the dog. Yeah.

Right, right. That's a good point. That's the thing. He gets offended when Indiana Jones raises an eyebrow at Mutt, and he's like, I picked that name for myself. So don't get offended. Yeah. You can get offended if Mutt means happiness in Hawaiian.

You can't get offended if you decided to call yourself Mutt after a dog. Can I tell you my problem with Mutt Williams? Sorry, I don't know why I'm so mad about that. Can I explain my problem with Mutt Williams? I have a lot of problems with that guy. Yeah. Look, knowing what we know now- Don't steal a beer off of him of problems with that guy. Yeah. Look, knowing what we know now Don't steal a beer off of him.

Go ahead. Also, doesn't he use someone else's Coca-Cola to clean off his fucking comb in that scene? At the beginning of the scene, I feel like he reaches over the table and takes the comb out. He does. No, you're right. He's disinfecting it with Coca-Cola. Strange. Yep.

It was the 50s. We thought a lot of things were weird. We're going to save us. Stop imposing. Yep. It was the 50s. We thought a lot of things were weird. That's true. I mean, we're going to save us. Stop imposing your values. That's true. That's a good point. Yeah. Make America mud again.

My problem with Mutt Williams is I feel like he is kind of neither here nor there in what he needs to be. Yeah. Which is, and I blame this on Shia, but I think he was in an impossible situation. I don't blame it on Shia. It's not a well-written role at all. It's not a well-written role. And you also... Shia could not have really done much

better than he does here. I basically agree. I agree. Yeah, it's a shit sandwich. I don't blame it on Shia. I blame it on... I don't think they really committed to what they were doing, and it feels like there was an indecisiveness about what he needs to be, which is either one of two things. Yeah, are you passing him the torch or not? Is question A to me.

No? It's an even more basic level for me. Okay. I think they're stuck between is he actually a greaser or is he a kid pretending to be a greaser? Oh, that's a good call. Yeah. And I think Shia's performance is completely between the two poles. Right.

Which I don't put on him. I think it was indecisiveness in the script on Spielberg. But what they should have done is looked at Shia LaBeouf and said, this is a kid pretending to be a greaser.

No one's going to buy him as a greaser. A hundred percent. I think that part of what has made me so love this movie is that I gave it the benefit of the doubt of just assuming

that he was a kid pretending to be a greaser because I often look at Shia and think that he reads phony. Yeah, right. So I thought that was part of the appeal for him, divorcing that from the fact that Spielberg just had a hard-on for his entire career, you know? Which is weird.

Yeah, but instead you get this guy who's taking the torch and he's like, yeah, I don't know, I quit school, sometimes I read. Like, Indiana Jones is supposed to be this brilliant motherfucker who's a badass, not like some bratty kid. The movie is not actually saying, like, this is the next Indiana Jones. No, they make him pass over the hat. Well, yeah, even at the end, it's still sort of conflicted.

You know, endorsement does not equal, or depiction does not equal endorsement. This is another lesson that Americans are soon going to have to grapple with. Oh, my God. I wish they'd grapple with that one quickly. My problem, I guess, is... Look, I'm just saying La La Land is a racist work of art about racism. It's about erasing people who are not white from all cultures. You know what I figured out earlier this week, and this is super on topic?

Shakespeare in Love is the La La Land of 1998. Oh man, well, I love Shakespeare in Love. I think by the time this comes out, I just did an episode on the canon with Amy Nicholson where that somehow became our central thesis. And this seemed like as good a place as any to plug that. That's a good call. Yeah. That is a pretty similar movie, actually.

Now that I'm running the two side by side in my head. A little bit because it's about two people, two artists who figure out how to be creative and then realize they can't be together if they do it. I brought it up to instruct you guys of this truth, not to re-litigate it on another podcast. Jesus Christ almighty. They're singing in Shakespeare in Love? Yeah. Gentlemen, upstage, ladies, downstage.

Ben Affleck's best performance. There's also that thing in Shakespeare in Love where he keeps on explaining to people that he don't like jazz the right way. It is true. Chicken on a stick. It's British. Thy chicken is on a stick. Two Chicken on a stick. It's British. Thy chicken is on a stick.

Two chickens on one stick. Where we set our scene. I agree with you that it reads to me, I mean, A, watching it as an audience member, because Shia is not successfully pulling off Brando, it reads as he wants to be a greaser and he's not. Right? Yeah, and the kind of lines that Ben is highlighting.

Like, I read sometimes, they're like, power, what's the, so there's a power. And he's just constantly performing his own greaserness. I mean, in a way that exceeds what one would do if they were actually a greaser. I think the performance needs to be even more excessive, though. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I think he needs to make it

more of a comedic performance, not, like, play it over the top. No, because, yeah, because then, of course, he's in the mix and he's doing, he's sword fighting on top of a jeep. Especially when you find out so he was raised by like a british professor like clearly this is an intellectual kid who's like stepping away from this right so he's being a jerk right right and he wants to seem like he's tougher and then he runs into his real dad who's like hey i am an academic and also a world traveling action hero right he realizes like you're just a piece of shit to me. Get you an archaeologist who can do both.

It's called pluralism. You can be an archaeologist and be killing Nazis. You don't have to choose. 2016. I think playing the character too straight robs him of having more comedic tension, which is the main thing that made people

like Indiana Jones in the first place, is that Indiana Jones is funny. Is he? I think he is. I think he's pretty funny. I mean, he's funny in this movie in a similar way to what Ford honed in Force Awakens, where he's sort of like, alright, you kids are having your fun. I get it.

It's dad humor in the original. It's grandpa humor now. I think it's very... Except in Last Crusade, he and his dad fuck the same lady. Yeah. I think the key for me... Except in Last Crusade, he and his dad fuck the same lady. Yeah. I think the key for me is that... Wow, I really like the wave of groan. Yeah, it's not into that. That's a plot point in that movie.

I know. I think Indiana Jones is circumstantially funny. I thought you were going to say circumcised. I think Indiana Jones is circumcised. I don't know. I don't think circumcision was that prevalent in the, like when would he have been born? Like 1890s? Yeah.

1900s? Yeah. Hey, fans out there, weigh in on it. What do you think? I just think that after he killed all those Nazis and realized where he stood in history, he would, just as an expression of solidarity, he would cut off his own foreskin. He'd do it himself. Yeah, just in like the Amazon.

It's a deleted scene at the end of Temple of Doom. Yes. I swear to God, in that movie with Kevin Bacon, the heir up there, he is ritually circumcised in the middle of that movie. It's like a plot point. No, I don't think it's him. I think one of the Maasai basketball players is circumcised. Maybe that's what it is.

He has to be there. They do something to him. He has to watch. He does have to watch. Is that right? I saw that movie, but probably 20 years ago. Some movie in theaters.

Yeah, exactly. Anyway. The thing I was going to say is that I think Indiana Jones is circumstantially funny. I don't think he is like a quippy one-liner funny.

I think this movie tries to do a little too much of that. But I think the whole thing is that like this balance, you know, the duality of who he is, to do a little too much of that. But I think the whole thing is that this balance, the duality of who he is, always being a little out of place in either environment,

and also that he is super vulnerable. He fucks up and he comes close to failing and he's always sort of in danger in a way that a lot of other 80s action heroes are not. I think Williams needs to... The mask needs to drop a little more in terms of like, oh, this is just some like rich kid professor son who wants to be a greaser.

I think you need to see that fall. And I think you need to see him trying a little more in order for him to become funny and then by proxy become relatable. I don't think that's really Shia's fault. don't think that's really Shia's fault. But did they really think, you know, with the intention of Mutt Williams kind of, sort of, assuming the fedora in future movies, that they were going to be able to put on a marquee, on a movie poster

the adventures of Mutt Williams and people were going to give them money in exchange for the opportunity to see that? I think they did. Mutt Williams? Yes. I think they actually thought that was going to happen. I think they thought the next movie would be like a real straight up two hander. You know, it'll be like Mutt and Indiana, like equal billing. And then eventually they'd like they'd segue there.

So in the next one, they fuck the same woman. And then the one after that, it's just Mutt. But this is like not a sustainable character the way they build him. You know? No. Agreed. At all. Doesn't have a huge arc, and nor

should he, and nor do we care about his arc. Yeah. Alright. We should get off, Mott, because we haven't done any of the plot of this movie. Are we gonna do the plot, though? I mean, I feel like... Alright. I like those opening 20 minutes. Which, did we give them enough credit? Because they're really good.

Start with the 50s team of doctors in the car. What do you like about this, Er the 50s team. We talked about the nuke the fridge. What do you like about this, Erlich? Speak up. About... We talked about the opening 20 minutes. To begin with, everything. But it feels like for some... This is like the crux of your...

This is your thesis here. Well, my thesis really just goes back to the split. Like the duality bits and the stuff with his family and his place in the generational cycle of Joneses. But I do think that the filmmaking is particularly inspired and fluid in the opening 20 minutes. I think there is not a shot out of place in that. I love how heightened it is, how cartoonish it is in its own way.

I think more or less every joke lands. It's very economical in how you introduce Irina Spalko and you got Ray Winstone in there. Ray Winstone, I have a moment. Can we talk? That's mostly what I was missing. Well, you have a moment where Ray Winstone

pretty much turns to the camera and admits that they're making this movie for the money. Right. Which is... Poils of money. Yeah, well, wow. Good, Ray Winstone.

That was good. Wow. What do I know about cholesterol? Whoa. I grew up in Britain. No, but still. So they used to do this ad where Ray Winstone

was the pitch man for, I believe, Special K. Really? In Britain for a while. Now, Ray Winstone is very famous in Britain. Okay. And it was kind of funny when he was briefly famous in America. Can you do the rest of the episode as Ray Winstone? I wish I could.

He's like a pretty, in Britain, it's like Michael Caine, Ray Winstone. I feel like they're a very, you know, who are kind of like Christopher Walken. It's like a lot of people can do a Michael Caine. Can you do a conversation between Michael Caine and Ray Winston? Not right now. Can you do Caine? Not really. What's like a Michael Caine thing?

My name is Michael Caine. My name is Michael Caine. Yours is better than mine already. Like, I can do cut rate Caine and you can be Ray Winston. But like, what's a thing Michael Caine said? I'm trying to, I just saw Michael Caine. She was only 16 years old. You're only supposed to blow the body doors off.

My name is Alfred Pennywise. Batman, do you want your bat suit? That's later Caine where he's like, you know, Bruce. Like, you know, where he's in his bow. You want to pause and watch the trip and then we'll jump back into it? That's the thing. You can't do Caine because of the trip. Right, right.

That's like all that keeps me going right now is the promise of a trip to Spain. Trip to Spain, baby. Winstone, I think right around... It is weird how Winstone... In the 80s and 90s, he's a British character actor. He plays gangsters, he plays thugs, he plays heavies.

And then everyone, American directors, start putting him in... It's after Sexy Beast. It's Sexy Beast which makes him cool, which is great in Sexy Beast, and that's a great movie. Do we agree? Yeah, I like it a lot. He's in Cold Mountain. He's suddenly playing Southerners, but he's like,

I'm from Mississippi. He's not really trying very hard. He's Beowulf. He's Beowulf. But please remember that Cold Mountain is a movie featuring Jack White. That is true. So they weren't really giving all that many.

Jack White's in it, but he doesn't play the albino. That's Charlie Hunnam. That's insane. That movie puts Jack White on screen and goes, no, not him. The other albino. He's in The Departed, in which he plays like a Boston gangster. And he's like. He puts the muscle.

Yeah. And then he was in these special cads in which he plays a Boston gangster, and he's like, ah. He puts the muscle. Yeah, right. And then he was in these special cads in Britain, where he's just walking, he's like, what do I know about cholesterol? And you're just like, yeah, you're fat. Why are you pitching special cads? I love Ray Winstone. I feel like it died off, like around now. Yeah.

This is sort of the end of his little American boom. Does Ray Winstone have a son who is substantially more conventionally handsome than him he has a daughter no he's not a Gleeson you can't just like

Gleeson him up there I want a third one of those you know I want a third like tubby British character I want like a shitty 2008 Jon Favreau directed

like milquetoast comedy starring Rafe and Timothy Spall and also Brendan Gleeson and Domhnall Gleeson and Domhnall Gleeson as like two sets of families who hate each other and go on a road

trip. That sounds great. And then they meet Ray Winston and he is sad that he doesn't have a son. His daughter's an actress though? Yeah, Jamie Winston and I swear to God she briefly dated Lindsay Lohan. It was like I believe she is like a I don't want to tar her, though.

Like, you know, I don't want to be going to, you know. You know what? I'm making up. She dated Alfie Allen. They had a child together. Who's Alfie Allen? He's Lily Allen's brother. What?

You know, he's in Game of Thrones. Oh, he's an actor? He plays Reek. I don't watch Game of Thrones. He was in Atonement. He's the simple farmhand or whatever that they use of rape. Oh, yeah. In Atonement.

Alfie Allen. I love Atonement. I just blocked him out of it. I don't know. I swear she did date Lindsay Lohan, though. I don't know. Maybe I'm making that up. Anyway, Ray Winston is just great in this movie.

He's having a blast. I mean, he's kind of, I guess he's kind of playing the John Rhys-Davis. No, Alfie Allen's the son from John Wick. Yeah, right, he's in John Wick. You should have said that. Yes, I forgot he's in John Wick. So well cast in that. Alfie Allen's just like a punchable boy, you know?

That's the space he occupies. Okay, so I'm sorry, back to Mac. I feel like I just totally missed my window to do the John Wick. Yeah, I guess I'm back. I wish I could do Keanu. That's such a good impression. Can you do Ray Winstone saying, yeah, I'm thinking I'm Mac? No.

God damn it. I have to do it naturally. I can't do it on the spot. Anyway, Mac is a beautiful character. Mac McHale is his character's name okay and you believe the history he has

with Indiana Jones which I think is crucial the Nazis or whatever it is they did I can't even remember what's the back story they talk about Berlin

there was a Berlin job that went wrong or right because I guess the implication right is like Indiana Jones like was part of World War II he was like a spy

I guess this is the guy he's been doing every mission with for the last 20 years. Right, he was doing clandestine shit. He worked with the KGB, but then obviously now we hate the KGB or something like that. Helped out with an alien autopsy. There's that scene with the janitor from Scrubs where they're yelling at him early on, right before the nuke. I can't remember what they even mad about. And they're talking about Area 51

is the whole implication. I don't like Mac. I like Ray Winstone a lot. I like the camaraderie at the beginning. I don't like how much focus is devoted to him in the movie. Just because at a certain point

I stop caring about which side he's on. You know? Does he even die? Yeah. Oh, he dies in a wonderfully terrible shot. I'm trying to remember it. He's like, he gets all the jewels. And he's like, oh, Indy, don't worry about me. Indy's like, got him on the whip.

He's just like, I'll be fine. I watched an Australian dub of the film that explains that. But he... Oh, Indy! He lets go. He's supposed to be, like, sucked up in a spaceship, and it looks really janky. Yeah, the end thing where they're all

getting sucked into, like, a portal in the space between spaces or whatever, that's lame. I'm trying to remember who it is, but it was in some review of the BFG I heard someone throw out a theory that, like, Spielberg's one of the best atG I heard someone throw out a theory that Spielberg's one of the best at compositing CGI elements into a live environment

and he's one of the worst at compositing live elements into a CGI environment that's probably fair there's like a 25-75 rule with him and like the first half of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull there's CGI but it's usually like one CGI element in this or the room's extended a little bit.

Yeah, sure. And he's turning in, you know, he's making a 50s town happen or whatever. He's doing, yeah. The second half of the movie, especially the jungle chase, it's like, okay, the vehicles are real and the actors are real. The environment's fake. The monkeys are fake. The weapons are fake.

Do we need the monkeys? No. No. No. Wait, but you don't like the quicksand scene? I like the quicksand scene. Okay. But you have to vibe on a different wavelength. I like the quicksand scene. Okay. But you have to vibe on a different wavelength.

I like the quicksand scene. But that's practical. He's like in real life. No, I agree. I just like this. I wonder what threw people who were a little bit more attached to Indiana Jones is that it's not just taking it from the serial stories of the 40s to the sci-fi, paperbacks of the 50s.

It's a different vibe and it requires you to engage with it on a sort of different level, come at it and meet it in a different place. It is definitely a different vibe. You need to appreciate how the shitty CG monkeys and mutts swing in on the vines is more of a wink to a Mystery Science Theater 3000 sort of cheese.

That's a decent argument. It's part of the Crystal Skull argument. The movie ends with a flying saucer, an actual flying saucer coming out of a temple. You know? And still, every time I see this movie, I'm like, wow, that's a flying saucer. It's a flying saucer. Can I tell you what I think activates the revulsion in people? It's like suddenly they're now, the second half of the movie becomes like, here's the family, right?

So A, it's like Marion's back in the picture. Now Mutt's his son. Now Marion's there. The three of them are always fighting like a family. I like the part where Marion's like, yeah, I'm guessing I'm back. She's not sure. She's just guessing that she's back. I'm thinking, whatever the fuck John Wick says.

I believe he says, I'm thinking I'm back. I'm thinking I'm back. But then you also have- And Mutt is the dog. Mutt's the dog. Comes together. So he's that that. But then you also have- And Mutt is the dog. It all comes together. Oh, that's right. He's that cute little beagle. You have the three of them as the family.

That dog gives a better performance in John Wick than Shia LaBeouf gives in the DS. Well, the dog's fucking amazing in John Wick. The dog's really good. You have the three of them doing a lot of family banter. And then you also have Oxley. You also have Mac. Sometimes the Russians are kind of with them. Sometimes they're not.

And suddenly they're in a lot of CGI environments where, like, another crazy thing is happening every five seconds. And I think it starts to feel a little Spy Kids. But it—oh, wow. Good point. Well said. Spy Kids is the right vibe. However, unlike Spy Kids— I do, too.

No, I'm more of an Adventures of Sharkboy and Lava Girl fan myself. But unlike Spy Kids, the chase scene, as bad as the CG is and as bad as everything is above tree level, the stuff where Mutt is suspended between two cars and they are sword fighting is masterful. See, I don't like that stuff. Well, you were mistaken. I don't like it because it feels like it has no tension to me because it's just, the CGI around it is so prevalent that it feels hermetic to me. It's all, for me, in addition to sort of the kinetic glee of watching this fight scene, which I think is really well choreographed,

and you have Cate Blanchett sword fighting with Shia LaBeouf, which, like, don't come at me, bro, and tell me that's not a sight that you need in your life. On top of a jeep. You have Mutt Williams, one foot on one car, one foot on another, bridging the gap between these two worlds as they drive in opposite directions. Indy trying to figure out who he is. It's what my bro, Toddy Haynes, would call semiotics.

Oh, hey. To bring the Cate Blanchett business full circle. David Ehrlich, the ghostwriter of film criticism. He's the only one who can dissect both worlds. That's great. Just don't infer that I'm the film crit Hulk of film criticism, which is where I thought you were going with that. Whenever I think of semiotics. He's not writing in caps anymore.

No. I just saw this. It's a luxury he can no longer afford. That's what he said. In Trump's America, yeah. He's fucking crazy. That's what I am. I did not come here to shit on film crit hole.

Well, I've done it on this podcast before, and I'll do it again, god damn it. But it all depends on what he thought about Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. I don't know what he thought about it, but I bet that he thought that it was bad, and he had a lot of bullshit reasons for why it was bad. I bet he thought that there were some very story-related issues that he had with the film. But I did think that this- Film critic dick, film critic hole. It's an interesting sequence, because I think that this film critic dick film critic Hulk it's an interesting film

it's an interesting sequence because I think that half half of the sequence and sometimes these elements are competing

with each other in the same shots works very well and another half is like so glaringly artificial in both look and feel

that it's just and then you got the fire ants that are all gooey like gushers like the fire ants I do like that and I do like

the gross you know what's this guy the what eric igor gg kini or that guy getting eaten up by that yeah that's a great shot uh don't like john hurt see that's my yeah that character gets too goofy goofballs mcgillicuddy for me and also just sort of feels like it just feels lazy like ray winstone is a fat like you know former spy turned double agent turned i don't know whatever you know alien sure gold miner gold grubber yeah that's great like they're like oh we need like a british academic who went crazy like get john hurt that's lazy that's lazy as shit he's not trying he's just gonna like i don't know you see i disagree i

think he's really going for it. Yeah, man. I don't like that character, but watching it kept on saying big ups to John Hurt. He could have phoned this in. I love John Hurt. Sometimes I'm weirdly out on John Hurt. I didn't even love him in one of David Ehrlich's favorite movies. Jackie?

Jackie. I think he's really good in Jackie. Which I really loved Jackie. John Hurt was in Jackie? Yeah. He's the priest. Oh, yeah. I haven't seen Jackie in like six months. Well, you fucking loved it so much. I did love Jackie. I do think that he is on the Indiana Jones Kingdom of the Crystal Skull power rankings.

He is pretty low. Oh, see, he's like maybe my number two. That's crazy. Wow, we're all over the place. How do you feel about broadband? That feels a little coarse. It's distracting. What? Do you love Broadbent in this? You could put Broadbent

in fucking, like, Warcraft, and it'd be like, what a performance. One, I'd love to see Jim Broadbent in Warcraft. That'd be great. Bad example. Why are these ogres fighting? Okay, Broadbent. Not great, but I'm working on it.

Iris. Iris. But that was a really good impression of someone else. I just can't put my finger on who it was. I'm between Broadbent and someone else. I'm closer to the other person. We don't know who it is. But Broadbent is an international treasure.

When Jim Broadbent dies, I will be bereft. And he is wonderful in this movie. Why not be Jim Broadbent? Why would you cast any other random Brit in that role? I'll tell you something about Jim Broadbent, though. He's seven years younger than Harrison Ford, which is actually crazy. He looks a thousand years older than him. I'm going to repeat my favorite fact that I repeat whenever I can.

Paul Giamatti and Vin Diesel, the exact same age. I believe that. Did you know John Chu was 44? Yeah, dude looks unbelievable. John Cho know John Chu was 44? Dude looks unbelievable. John Cho. Sorry, John Cho. You're confusing John Chu. This is a true story

that's going to sound like horseshit, but in my brain, when I think about the kind of action filmmaking in this movie, one of my other reference points is the mountain fight in G.I. Joe Ninja Mountain. And that was directed by John Chu. And that is why I had John Chu on the brain.

True, true. The mind works in mysterious ways. Yeah, John Chu's old. John Chu is, he's a sexy old man. He's 44. I would get an amazing December, May, November. I thought he was about 35. But John Chu's been around forever. Like, John Chu was old when he shot American Pie. I thought he was about 35. But John Cho's been around forever.

Ever. Like, John Cho was old when he shot American Pie. Yeah, he was like 30. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. It's like, love John Cho. If John Cho had a baby with Gabrielle Union, it would be a Highlander who would live forever. That's true.

He has like a wife, though, right? He's been married for years. He has a wife and a child. He's like a nice kid, yeah. Can I throw my hot take on this movie? Sure. Ehrlich, I love your read. My problem with this movie is I feel like I get the glimpse of your read

and I feel like it doesn't go far enough into it. And I'll tell you where it falls apart for me. I don't like that in the second half of the movie where they get to the temple and they come face to face with the quote unquote gods, you know, and all that sort of stuff.

Like real face to face. Yes. Like the face in the camera. Like really close. Oh yeah. Yeah. That it is buried in the aesthetics

of the same kind of like ancient tribal. Yeah, that's also my problem. Jungle, you know, like semiotics of the previous films. Yeah, it's like it's not sci-fi enough for me. But that's what we problem. Jungle, you know, like semiotics of the previous films. Yeah, it's not sci-fi enough for me. Come on, go for it. I want more sci-fi.

He likes the duality. Well, I wasn't even going to bust out the D word. I was just going to say that it's of a whole with the goofy paperback quality that you see in the Saturday morning serial. I can see the argument. I like the movie enough that I'm fine with it, but I know what you're saying.

It still feels like a 30s Indiana Jones movie in most ways. Like, aliens have a home in the Indiana Jones movie. I got no beef with aliens. What I would love is if the first half of the movie

was steeped in sort of the jungle ruin shit, right? And then when they find the race, then you get to more of the Area 51. I want to see them in a fucking flying saucer. I don't want the flying saucer to look like temple ruins, you know?

Like, I kind of like a movie that is about Indiana Jones being out of place, you know? That's about him straddling two worlds, like the two Jeeps in the jungle. And I want to see a movie where it's actually more jarring in the way that the Nuke the Fridge sequence is, where it's like, this guy doesn't fit into this anymore. Why don't you just go home and edit Mutt Williams and Indiana Jones' relationship into War of the Worlds? That's what I'm going to do. And there you got your aliens.

Or Jupiter Ascending. That's what I'd want. I'd love Indiana Jones and Jupiter Ascending. Nobody wants Jupiter Ascending. No, not Jupiter Ascending. But I want it to be like a fucking, like a Menzies movie. You know? I want like metallic, sterile.

A Menzies movie? William Cameron Menzies like metallic, sterile. A Menzies movie? William Cameron Menzies, who did like the Saucerman from Mars or whatever. I will have to go home and study up on him. I just, like, I don't want to, my fear with any of that is when you're getting into Jurassic World syndrome where it's like the whole fucking movie's about how you made a sequel. Like, and I need you to throttle back a little bit. Like, I do still want an Indiana Jones movie. You know what I mean?

I don't want every goddamn thing to be about how, oh my God, can you believe we made a sequel to Indiana Jones 19 years later? No, I don't want that. I want a movie that becomes that. Do you know what I'm saying? I know what you're saying because I already said I kind of agree with you,

but I also kind of get why they didn't do it, I guess is my best. I just get a charge out of him nuking the fridge I get a charge out of him area 51 dealing with like this you know horn rim glasses yeah I like that stuff suit guys

like I like seeing him mashed up with different aesthetics because he's older and because that has to be recognized and because the movie's about the fact that he never fucking settled down and it's like, what are you trying to prove? You know?

Like that kind of thing. I like him sticking out more. And I, yeah, I just like, I want them to, the alien stuff feels like they're a little bit embarrassed by it.

Like they're hedging their bets a little bit, which is weird because they're also going so far at the same time. You know? Like they're owning the alien shit. There's an alien.

And being really fucking silly and pulpy. It makes, it lights her eyes on fire. Right, but then they're also trying to make it look like, like Raiders. You've made your point. I don't know, yeah. That's my point. I don't know.

Spielberg had produced that miniseries, Taken, a few years earlier. Not that much earlier, which is like steeped in that, he loves that 50s paranoia, Area 51, Area 51 aesthetic. Like, you know, dialed up to 10.

I wonder if there had been like... No. I wonder if there had been... Well, fuck you! Heather Donahue from the Blair Witch Project was in it and it was weird. I wonder if there had been like one more set piece and I know the movie's sort of getting long in the tooth by this point anyway, but maybe you can take one out from earlier. But after the introduction

of the aliens where the aliens are more involved I agree with that too because yeah the aliens kind of come pretty quick which is classic Indiana Jones where it's like we finally did it and then something absolutely mind-boggling happens because there's nothing mind-boggling and then something mind-boggling. The aliens just like I'm out

like peace. I'm out of the galaxy I've given, I've killed Cate Bl peace. I'm out of the galaxy. I've given, I've killed Cate Blanchett. I've done too much harm. I gotta go. And I think, like, had there been a chase sequence or something with the aliens, I don't know. I think maybe Griffin would have been a little bit more on board. Maybe spend more time in the

trophy room with all of this, like, ancient artifacts that are really fascinating and interesting. Ben likes ancient aliens. I do too. I do think there is, all the Indiana Jones movies are about this guy chasing something he doesn't believe in, right? Like that's kind

of the major through line is that the previous three movies are all religious artifacts that he believes do not hold any actual power. And at the end of the movie there's like, you know, the last 10-15 minutes suddenly crazy supernatural shit starts happening and he has to come to terms. And at the end of the movie, there's like, you know, the last 10, 15 minutes, suddenly crazy supernatural shit starts happening and he has to come to terms with it and the way that the aliens function

at the end of this movie. But they're always about him not believing in anything more than the object, not the power invested in it beyond that. And this, I feel like, because it's not, they try to tie in the thing where it's like, well, they thought they were gods, they were the aliens. But it seems like very quickly he feel like, because it's not a... They try to tie in the thing where it's like, well, they thought they were gods.

They were the aliens. But it seems like very quickly he's like, oh, these gods must have been aliens. And he just kind of accepts it, and then the movie's just trucking towards the end point. It's when he sees the crystal skull. Right. And he's like, you couldn't make this thing.

You look at the other thing, and even at the end, he's like, that's just a gold box. How fucking badass would it be in your apartment to have that crystal skull? Pretty good looking skull. It's a nice skull. What do you think of the skull? We just talked about the War of the Worlds aliens, you know.

Yeah, I don't... You know, the skull is close enough to being a... I was going to say xenophobe, but that's not right. Xenomorph. Xenomorph, yes. It has that long, elongated style. This could have just been a soft prequel. Could have been Prometheus.

This could have just easily segued into Prometheus. Look, man, I once read a comic book where Superman fought a Xenomorph. Really? Like, Indiana Jones fought a Xenomorph. I like the look of the skeleton. I don't like the look as much when they get fleshed. It's not that interesting. It's just kind of...

It's just another example of bad CG. Right. But it's mercifully brief. It is mercifully brief. I was just confused because there's no vodka in it. That that interesting. It's just kind of... It's just another example of bad CG, but it's mercifully brief. It is mercifully brief. I was just confused because there's no vodka in it. That's true. Hey, you know what?

If fucking Ackward was selling vodka out of that skull, I'd buy it. Like, the skull he's got is so basic looking. It is a little basic. It's a regular skull.

Yeah, who cares? It's just vodka and a skull. Give me a goddamn crystal alien skull. I think the crystal skull in this looks really cool. I think it looks great. No, I agree alien skull. I think the crystal skull in this looks really cool. No, I agree with you. I think the crystal skull in this looks cool.

I think Ackroyd's crystal skull in real life looks lame. That's my take. I don't know what you're talking about. Dan Ackroyd owns a vodka company. And the bottle is a crystal skull. Dan Ackroyd also believes in UFOs, let's be clear. Dan Ackroyd, our guest on the podcast next week. Oh, man, that'd be probably

really unfortunate and embarrassing for everybody involved. We would watch that 80s movie where it's in New Jersey and he's the judge. No,

we'd definitely watch Dragnet. Right? You're talking about Nothing But Trouble. Yeah. Which Dan Aykroyd directed. It's terrible.

What about that movie where he dresses up in fetish clothing with Rosie O'Donnell? Exit to Eden? Yeah. Yes. Do you want to play the box office game?

I would love to. 2008, it comes out, I believe, Memorial Day weekend, right? Yes. May 23rd, 2008. Okay. And it opens to like $100 million? $151 million. That's the four day or the five day or whatever?

Four day. Yeah. That's pretty crazy. Pretty crazy. I mean, at the time of this film's release, it was in the top 20 films of all time. Yeah. It made, right. Yeah, just to give you, it made a lot of money.

317 domestic, not great considering the opener there, but 800 worldwide. Yeah, that's a lot. Okay, numbers. It's a lot, and I know we're talking about 2008, but that's like less than your average installment of the Fast and the Furious franchise now. Yeah, it is crazy.

I can adjust for inflation and tell you that these days less than your average installment of the Fast and the Furious franchise now. It is crazy. I can adjust for inflation and tell you that these days it made, not that much more, honestly. Yeah, like $3.75 domestic. So, yeah. But important to note, not that long ago, but 2008, Dark Knight's the number one movie of that year, and that becomes only the fourth movie in history to make a billion dollars worldwide.

It was before the billion dollar worldwide poster. Whereas now it's like you've got to make a billion dollars worldwide. It was before the billion dollar worldwide grosser. Whereas now it's like you've got to make a billion dollars for Disney to even look up from the newspaper. You're losing money if you don't crack a bill. Daddy, I've made $800 million! And he's just like, uh-huh. Zootopia shat that in his sleep. But this was the number two worldwide grosser of the year.

And that shit had very acute things to say about racism. What's Disney got next year? Oh that's Pixar. I mean this year. They got Coco's the Pixar movie. Cars 3.

They got two Pixar's this year. Gigantic. They're doing a Jack and the Beanstalk movie. I'm very in favor of like Latino representation on in animation, right?

Right. Why is every fucking Latino animated movie about the Day of the Dead? I don't know. Am I being an asshole? I have no idea. Is there nothing else? I mean, I get that visually it's a very exciting thing to play around with, and maybe that's what it is.

This one's been in development for a long time. We just had a fucking Day of the Dead a couple years ago. Yeah, but it's like every Japanese-themed movie, animated or otherwise, that's made with Western money is about samurai culture and so on. This is true. This is the way of the world. But I will say, as unfortunate as that may be,

that Guillermo del Toro produced Channing Tatum, famous Latino, the Book of Life. It was surprisingly good for what it was surprisingly good yeah not a bad little movie yeah um uh do you know that disney tried to uh file a copyright for day of the dead they wanted to legally own day of the dead as a holiday in preparation for coco i did not that's unfortunate yep uh all right so number two at the box office this week no was a film that i am amused to tell you cost more to make than Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Wait, wait. Indiana Jones' listed budget is $185 million. This movie cost $225 million. I swear to God, no one ever saw it. Apparently, it made lots of money. I don't think so. Can I guess what it was? Please.

I'm not even- It was number one the previous week. I'm not going to think that hard and assume that I don't even know what year it came out. It just feels, no, no, no, but I don't know what year this film came out, but it just feels right in my bones. Wolfgang Peterson's The Poseidon.

I think that did come out in 08, but it is not that. I think that's maybe 07 or 06. But that's a really good guess. It is 06, that movie. That movie exists. Well, it may not. I mean, a really good guess. It is 06, that movie, that that movie exists. Well, it may not. I mean, right? It's one of those movies where you're like,

did it exist actually? Like, did that happen? Josh Lucas? Johnny Drama. Johnny Drama's in that movie. Is the film you're talking about live action or animated? It's live action, although it has animated elements. Okay.

So I'm just running through this in my head. First week of May, Iron Man kicks off the summer. The next week, Speed Racer is supposed to be the big one. Speed Racer is in the top five. Right, and is toppled by What Happens in Vegas. Which is number four. Okay. Solid movie. So four and five are Speed Racer.

One is Indiana Jones. Four and five are Vegas and Speed Racer. Right. Number three is Iron Man. Okay, so number two is the one we're trying to figure out. And it had come out. It came out the same, like, you know, it came out a week before this. Sure.

So the week after Speed Racer. Okay. Is it based on pre-existing material? Yes. And is it the first film in the franchise? No. It is a sequel. It's crazy, crazy that we forgot about these.

Is it the last one in the franchise? No. It's the second in a three-part franchise that they keep claiming they're going to make another one. The Smurfs? No. $225 million this thing cost to me. What was the final box office gross? I'll tell you in one second.

It grossed domestically $141 million, worldwide $419. Not bad. I mean, for that budget... Wait, what was the domestic gross? $141. On a $225 million budget? Yeah, not great. That's not exceptional.

It did okay worldwide. But they claim they're going to make another one. Wait, was it... No. I don't know. No, it wasn't. I think I'm thinking of Tim Story's heyday in 2004. It's not Fantastic Four.

Not Fantastic Four. Based on pre-existing material. There's a reason you guys don't really remember this movie. Yeah. It has one of the stars of Westworld in it. It's an unhelpful clue. Because it's not one of the stars of Westworld that you're thinking of.

The movie with no stars, $225 million. And it's the third one. It's not Shit Monks. Second one, second one. Second one, but there are three. There are three, and apparently they're going to make another one. It's based off a cartoon show? No.

It was directed by an animator. Which is a pretty good clue. Yeah. That's a pretty decent clue. It's directed by... See, this is why the box office game is good. Oh, Ice Age. Not Ice Age.

It's not an animated show. Oh, that's right. But it has a lot of CGI. It's based off something that isn't a cartoon, not a comic book. good. Oh, Ice Age. Not Ice Age. It's not an animated film. But it has a lot of CGI. It's based off something that isn't a cartoon, not a comic book. Book series? It's based off a book series. It came out in May, too. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh. Of course. It is The Chronicles of Narnia Prince Caspian. With Ben Barnes of Westworld. They have green lit a fourth one. That was not a helpful clue. It was not. I liked it. That's right. With Ben Barnes of Westworld. They have green-lit a fourth one. That was not a helpful clue. It was not. I liked it.

That was the Allegiant of its day. Yes. It really was. Because the first one was humongous. The first one was like inexplicably, not maybe not inexplicably, but it was a huge thing. The first one had Tilda Swinton as the ice queen.

She's got a cameo in the second one. She's in a little mirror or something. Yeah. And it was coasting off Lord of the Rings, and suddenly we're like, here's another one. And it was just one Yeah. You know, and like, it was coasting off Lord of the Rings, you know? And so they were like, here's another one. And it was just one of those things where audiences were like,

nah. Like, we were fine with just the one. But I remember everyone being like, that's probably the number one movie this summer, right? Right, right. Like, everyone was like, it's an arms race between Caspian and Indiana Jones.

Right, and then Iron Man. And like, Iron Man and Dark Knight were afterthoughts. Right, right. Well, because people didn't take superhero shit seriously. That was the year where everyone was like, I think we've hit peak superhero. They're done now, right? And then the two movies that define the next decade.

Trump's not going to win the primary. Yeah. Everyone was like, we've hit the end of that cycle. Spider-Man 3 a year before. We're done with this. And then Iron Man and Dark Knight became the two movies that everyone copied. It's so crazy. For the next decade.

Prince Caspian. And yet they made the Voyage of the Dawn Treader. But Fox made it. Disney dumped it. Yes, right. Fox picked it up, and yet they made The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. But Fox made it. Disney dumped it. Yes, right. Fox picked it up, slashed the budget. And who directed it?

Not Ed Redderson. Michael Apted. Michael Apted, who made a lot of good ones. The Coal Miner's Daughter. He made Coal Miner's Daughter, which I recently watched off of TCM, and Tommy Lee Jones is so good in it.

And I'll bring it full circle. As is, of course, Sissy Space. The director who was originally supposed to do Voyage of the Dawn Treader and then left was Neil Berger, director of Diversion. And The Illusionist.

He was looking to make a children's... The Illusionist is about how an orange can grow out of a little... The Illusionist is a movie about how I thought every time I saw it on cable, it was the Sylvain Chaumet movie, and every time I'm deeply disappointed. Paul Giamatti, get me out of here.

Because it was like one time it was actually the fucking Shomei movie and every time I see it when I'm scrolling through I'm like, could be. Never is. Jessica Biel, baby. She's in that one, right? Yes. Watch it on a plane. In the Shomei one.

Rest of the top five? She is Sylvana Shomei. Right. Okay, so top five is Indiana Jones, Prince Caspian, then Iron Man, then What Happens in Vegas, then Speed Racer. That's right. And then six through ten, just out of curiosity? Yeah, let me, sorry, I dismissed it.

What I learned from that movie is that What Happens in Vegas doesn't, in fact, stay in Vegas. Oh, there are some. It follows them back home in a major way in that film. It follows. There's some shit nuggets. That's why I want to hear. I'm not trying to guess.

I want to hear the- Remember Maid of Honor? Yes. About that great, great male maids of honor. No, I, wait, what was? Patrick Dempsey. I'm not trying to guess. I want to hear the- Remember Maid of Honor? Yes. About that great creation. Male Maids of Honor. Wait, what was- Patrick Dempsey. No. Michelle Moynihan.

No. I don't know who else is in it. You guys, I own the Blu-ray of Maid of Honor. It sits on top of my television. You executive produced Maid of Honor. Oh my God. Number seven, you got Baby Mama. Oh yeah.

Tina Fey. That's called Polar Joy. Maid of Honor is a better film than Baby Mama. I agree. See, you two hate Baby Mama so much. It's a deeply offensive movie. I think that movie is entertaining. Tina Fey. That made of honor is a better film than Baby Mama. I agree. See, you two hate Baby Mama so much. I think that movie is entertaining. Oh, boy. And now Dax Shepard's directing Chips or whatever.

Yeah. Harold and Kumar escape from Guantanamo Bay. And this is another one of my hot takes. I think the best of the three. I think it's the worst. Solid movie. I don't like that movie. Forgetting Sarah Marshall, a movie we can all agree on, surely. He likes that movie. I love that movie. I don't like that movie. Forgetting Sarah Marshall, a movie we can all agree on, surely.

He likes that movie. I love that movie. I don't love that movie. What? I'm mixed on that movie. What? I know you love that movie. I'm breathing heavily.

Forgetting Sarah Marshall, it's a masterpiece. I think Neighbors is Stoller's masterpiece. I mean, those two films alone put him in the upper, most upper, most upper echelon of artists of our time. But I think Forgetting Sarah Marshall has it.

The vampire. I mean, the Dracula musical scene. Yeah, I love that. Oh, my God. There is not a single moment of Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Get Up to the Greek is better. What? So superior.

I just want brand and I want a lot of it. Get Up to the Greek has its moments. There's a couple moments. Branding Sarah Marshall, I think, is like the apartment of our day. It's the some like it hot of our day. Okay, maybe there is a spectrum where I'm in the middle now. A masterpiece. I think Ehrlich's like running.

There are seasons every year where it will come on Cinemax or whatever for like a few weeks at a time. And that, my friends, is when I live. Can I quote your recent Forgetting Sarah Marshall tweet? I don't even know what it was. It was, Jason Segel was only 28 when he wrote Forgetting Sarah Marshall is the new Orson Welles was only 28 when he directed Citizen Kane. 25. Sorry. But I think that making Forgetting Sir Marshall at 28 is a more impressive feat than directing Citizen Kane at 25. No, I'm sorry.

Am I forgetting a scene in Citizen Kane where Orson Welles sang a musical about Dracula? Or, no. Orson Welles also didn't have the courage to show his wang on film. I'm sure he would have loved to show his wang on film. In deep focus. There's also The Visitor, rounding out the top ten from Tom McCarthy, starring Richard Jenkins. Back in the time, I mean, that's to show you how far we've fallen, really, not come. Not that I have anything particularly good to say about The Visitor, but it was a time

when that kind of movie could have cracked the top 10 in the middle of the summer movie season. I know, it's funny. That is actually true. It's been hanging around for seven weeks and it's like hanging out in the top 10. Yeah, the movie did well. It's not a terrible movie. If that came out today, the hot takes about Richard Jenkins

playing his bongo drums in the middle of wherever. Jenkins is great in that. Jenkins is great. When's Jenkins bad? When's Jenkins bad? Never. He should have won

his Oscar for Stepbrothers. We all agree on that. He wanted to be a Tyrannosaurus. Best Supporting Actor 2008 should have been Richard Jenkins. That's something

that I struggle with existentially, spiritually. They could make Martin Scorsese's Silence about me trying to figure out whether or not Stepbr Brothers is a better film

than Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Same year, right? Same year. Yeah, 2008. Step Brothers for me, no question. I think for me too, but it's kind of like, do I want to look at a Monet?

Right, right. Or do I want to look at a Picasso? And one has the pan, or pan, like a woman's name. I'll say this. It leaves your dick like Kobayashi. I know the point is that I'm falling for it, but I get kind of worked up at the end of Step Brothers when they perform.

Oh, no, as Marion Cotillard says, she cries every time. Do you also think that jet fuel can't melt steel beams? Yeah, are you like Cotillard in other ways? Yeah. Cuckoo Cotillard and I are two birds of a fellow. Some of the fucking movies in this, like, you know, Horton Hears a

Who, Nim's Island. Horton Hears a Who was one of the top ten highest grossing films of that year. Drillbit Taylor, remember that? The Owen Wilson comeback that didn't happen. Okay, so here's my last thought. This ties into the thing I want to make sure I don't forget to say. U2 3D?

This season we're talking about, right? May 2008. This is like a couple months after I've dropped out of college and I'm living in New York and being like, I'm going to be a movie star. Like yelling at everyone around me like, I'm not an idiot. I know what I'm doing. I'm going to be an actor. God Like yelling at everyone around me like, I'm not an idiot. I know what I'm doing. I'm going to be an actor. God, people must have thought you were a fucking idiot.

A fucking idiot, right? Like a lot of, yeah. If I had met you then, this podcast probably wouldn't have happened. There was a kid in Drillbit Taylor who had a very similar haircut to me at the time and very similar glasses. And everyone thought I was in Drillbit Taylor. So they thought you was already like, wow, Griffin, amazingly. He somehow shot that after dropping out of college?

I swear to you. I swear to you people are that dumb. I got so many messages that were genuinely like, is that you I just saw in the new Owen Wilson movie? Who the fuck's seen Drillbit Taylor? No one, but they'd see the TV ads. Right, okay. I just wanted to be clear. If they saw the full movie, they would have known it wasn't me. But they'd see the TV ads and one of the three kids looked like me. Sure, sure. And for wanted to be clear. If they saw the full movie, they would have known it wasn't me. But they'd see the TV ads

and one of the three kids looked like me. Sure, sure. And for like four years, that was the fucking meme. Like the joke around my friends was like, oh, you and the Drillbit Taylor guys, he's still getting your parts? Yeah.

Like after they found out it wasn't him. It's like how Katie Rich looks like the little girl from Moneyball. It is a lot like that. Steals all of Katie Rich's parts. To the other point, when you were asking about did anyone ever think that they were actually going to make a series of Mount Williams films?

Did anyone think that was actually ever going to be a thing? I remember looking in my bathroom mirror the week before this film came out, Crystal Skull, and going like, wait a second. They're going to make Mount Williams films. They're going to need villains his age. And I was like. Another odd assumption, I got to say. Weird assumption. I don't know if you're really going to need villains his age. And I was like... Another odd assumption, I gotta say. I don't know if he's really going to need villains

his age. But I remember distinctly looking in the mirror and being like, that's what you're going to do. You're going to be a Mutt Williams villain. You've come a long way, Griffin. A long way. I'm telling the story to show where my head was at at this point. May 2008. I looked in the bathroom mirror

and I was like, okay, what kind of villain would I want to be for a Mutt Williams film? Yeah, but. I practice accents and fighting styles. Some would say that shitting on Mutt Williams during this podcast, you have, in a roundabout way, become a Mutt Williams. One of his greatest villains. A Mutt Williams. And that is why you have become one of our finest film critics.

Not our finest film critic, who is, of course, Ben Hosley, but one of. I don't know who that is, but we're going to have to find him and kill him. Oh, that's that Ben? Yeah, he's right over there. Well, I found him. You could probably get the drop on him. He's listening.

I'm scrappy, though. You better watch out. Mr. Ehrlich, thank you so much for being here. Good time, baby. Follow you on Twitter. If you're listening to this podcast in April, please go back to January 13th I believe that's right

when David Ehrlich tweeted his run of kicks when I lost my mind in real time oh I should have been reviewing the Jamie Foxx movie Sleepless which I'm sure by April

has entered the canon yeah good time had by all Indiana Jones I'm about to actually as we speak go to Broadway and see Cate Blanchett in a play. Oh, really? The singer and the singer hubby wrote. Three hours of Chekhov.

With Roxburgh. Yeah. I remember when I was watching Hacksaw Ridge and I was like, are we going to get Richard Roxburgh too? Because there's like every Australian actor and then he's like, I don't know. You want to hear something crazy? The Ocean's 8 shoot is so long that Cate Blanchett

shot a month then went into a month of rehearsals for that play has a two month run and then goes back and shoots another month on Ocean's 8. And no matter how long

that movie is going to shoot for and how much time of those actors it's going to take it's still going to be directed by Gary Ross and a piece of shit. Amen. All I'll say is

I'm in that movie. He's in that movie, baby. I will 100% be cut out of it. Probably. That is the best possible outcome for my opinion about Ocean's 8, but I hope that in between takes you turn to the camera and say, where's Soderbergh?

All I'm going to say is I was promised Soderbergh, or at least Gregory Jacobs. Yeah. If you're a betting man or woman listening to this podcast right now- You're not in Ocean's 8. Just put down some money right now on me not making the final cut of Ocean's 8. What's the next- Do you play Rihanna?

Do you play Awkwafina? No spoilers. He'll tell you right when we turn off the mic. But I play a real dupe. Is next Tintin? The next film, I believe, is Tintin. Right? Tintin War Horse. That is correct.

Yes. See you next week with the Adventures of Tintin, colon, The Secret of the Unicorn. Yeah. Shouldn't have given it that colon. Should have just called it Tintin. Thank you for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe.

As always, go to our Reddit, reddit slash r slash blankies, say some stuff, make it nice. Yeah, rate, review, subscribe. As always, go to our Reddit, reddit.com slash r slash blankies. Say some stuff. Make it nice. Yeah, we good. We good. As always. And as always,

I'm going to give it my best shot. Okay. Yeah, I'm thinking I'm Mac. Okay. David? Yeah. Both of you ready? Sorry.

It's your name too, David. I'm including you in this now, David. David's ready? Okay. And Sims, I want you to say in your best Mutt Williams impression. Which is, I don't have one, but okay. I don't understand why the legend about the city of gold. Oh, I have to say, what?

I have to say, God I have to say God every line Say it like you're from the 50s David Yeah Real greaser Imagine you're holding a knife in your hand I don't even remember When is he saying that? Is that during that weird conversation?

You'll know when I say my line Okay ready? What do I have to say again? I already forgot Type it out Ready? Open up a doc Okay type it out

I don't understand I don't understand period Why don't understand, period. Why the legend about the city of gold? And now, in parentheses before that line, type out, in your best Mutt Williams. I'm not typing that out. Okay, are you ready? I can't. What's a Mutt Williams?

Give me a Mutt Williams. Like, I'm literally interested. I'm going to try, but I've been doing a really bad job of impressions. I know. Well, that's fine. I don't understand. That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

That's pretty good. He's such a... That's not bad, right? Such a strange... Why the legend about the city of gold? What about that other line he has that's like, power, power, so there's a power. What's the power? What's power?

Wait, what's the other line you want me to do? Because this is insane. The alt? Yeah, what's the alt? I'm just interested in what the alt is. I thought you line you want me to do because this is insane the alt yeah what's the i'm just interested in what the alt is i thought you said you were a t-shirt uh sure right that's more of a right that's more of a cute line all right but but the problem with that one is it would it would sort of have to be i thought you said you were a podcaster and then i would say part-time yeah none of it's good. I like this one. You're going to you're

going to like this one when you cue me. Ready. OK. This has been a UCB comedy production. Check out our other shows on the UCB

comedy podcast network.