Blank Check with Griffin & David - Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom with Olivia Craighead

Episode Date: March 2, 2025

“Doom” isn’t just describing a Temple here, folks - it’s kind of the overarching vibe of this film! George Lucas is going through a bitter divorce. Steven Spielberg is dealing with PTSD from Twilight Zone: The Movie. Harrison Ford is suffering from a back injury from falling off an elephant or something. Kate Capshaw is there. A true cloud of doom hanging over this movie! Fortunately for you all, it’s only great vibes for us and Olivia Craighead *podcasting* about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. It’s the return of the “George Lucas got cucked by the stained glass man” lore, of course we’re gonna have a blast. Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your  pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blank Jack with Griffin and David Blank Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Jack I was happy in Shanghai! I had a little house and a garden. My friends were rich. We went to parties all the time in limousines. I hate being outside. I'm a podcaster. I could lose my voice.

I don't know. Maybe you need to be more hysterical. I think I was a little too muted in that performance. That was very good. This is a little bit like Lorraine Bracco in Medicine Man, where there is no way you can overdo. If you're just like, ah! You're like, actually, she's louder than that. Right.

Great segue into what I wanted to talk about. Great. OK, here we go. There's an HBO Max documentary about David Chase directed by Alex Gibney, who directs, like, 18 documentaries a year. Yeah, right. Have you watched it called Wise Guy, in which he's just interviewing David Chase about the Sopranos who directs like 18 documentaries a year. Have you watched it called Wise Guy? In which he's just interviewing David Chase

about the Sopranos. But you like the Sopranos. I love the Sopranos. So you should watch it. Because even though it's recycling a fair amount of anecdotes I feel like we know about the Sopranos, David Chase is such an interesting, dark-ass motherfucker. Also, let's say, maybe the sleepiest-looking

motherfucker of all time. And like truly incredibly eloquentquent really interesting to hear him talking like and like Gibney has like You know taped him to a chair and it's basically like talk really candid about Gandolfini and how complicated the relationship was and how tough Gandolfini was on set and all this shit's all great kind of a Willy Scott in that dynamic. You're saying Gandolfini was the Willie? Was a Willie Scott to David Chase's Indiana Jones. Are we sure? I don't know, go on.

I shouldn't have cut you off. I reached a conclusion prematurely. No, it's fine. And Bracco is, they'll cut to Bracco sometimes. And she's very upfront too, where she's like, I'm so not like Melfi. And what she should be saying is like, I'm really like medicine man lady.

Like, that's my vibe. Yeah. Because she is like, loud and like, ah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. You watch her talking and you're like, Melfi is an incredible performance. She like really like, you know, anyway. And off mic, I was asking her guess,

is Ham kind of the greatest TV performance? Yeah. But then I think you do have, is Ham kind of the greatest TV performance? Yeah. But then I think you do have, you know, the Sopranos is very large. I think it's Gandalfini or Ham. Or I think you can make the argument for Jon Ham. Every time I watch Mad Men. Literally earlier today, I think I saw like a post about Mad Men, and I was like, that's the great American novel.

It is. It kind of is. It's the best. And obviously, it's a seed that sprouted from The Sopranos, right? Like, you know, Weiner worked on Sopranos and all that. But, uh, but yeah. You gotta watch Wiseguy and text me about it. I've still not finished Sopranos.

Well, you made it... How far did you get? I was barreling through the first three seasons. You made it to the point where I do think a lot of people are like, I'm a little overwhelmed, I need a break. Is that when Ralphie shows up? Ralphie shows up in season 3. Yeah season 3 is the really nasty. It's a great season But it's where chase feels like he's kind of like I feel like you motherfuckers don't get that these are bad people

But this is the other part of it Is that like I don't love mob shit right and season 3 is when it starts to become clear that it's like There's a lot of mob politics. ...is kind of like subsiding. That stops being the superstructure of the show. And that does... That whole part sort of does sort of fade away. It does. And they're like, how do we keep Melfi in this show?

I felt very disappointed by that. Yeah. But it is... Much like real therapy, right? It's like a couple years in, you are kind of... often having kind of the same conversations and there's only so much more dramatic... Speaking of salt, I got huge shit happening in therapy these days. That's good, that's good. I'm very happy.

Yeah, we got new show runners came in and really have a new take on how to do it. Man, David Chase though, he's just, he's a scary dude. If I had to work for him, I would be so scared to work for that scary motherfucking guy. I don't know. Yeah, but scary in a very specific way. In a sleepy way.

In a very sleepy way. But it feels like the kind of like dad you would never satisfy if you worked for him where you'd be like, what about this? And he'd be like, no. And you're like, okay. And he's like, I wrote this. And you're like, well, that's incredible. Are Vince Gilligan and Matt Weiner both from Sopranos?

No, I think Gilligan is from the X-Files. Oh, okay. That's where, that's the. Are Vince Gilligan and Matt Weiner both from Sopranos? No, I think Gilligan is from the X-Files. That's the tree he sprouted from. I know he was from somewhere. He was an X-Files alum. No, I feel like Chase's big alums are Terrence Winter, who did Boardwalk Empire and stuff and vinyl, right? Now Tulsa King.

And Matt Weiner, of course. Robin Green and Mitchell Burr just went on to create Blue Bloods, which has gone on. It's still on the air, right? I think just ended. Okay. Was Tom Selleck the police commissioner for like 14 seasons?

Like how many mayors did he serve under? I think he's- How much time passed? I think he's retired at a certain point. Cause the dynasty was Len Carew was at the top of the... Len Karoo is the retired former... How do you guys know this about Blue Blood? Excuse me, I was on two episodes of Blue Blood.

Oh my gosh, congrats. As Detective Sam Wonderboy Johnson. Donnie did not like me. The first time he said, why we hired this guy, we could have cast anyone. And the second time he said, why'd we bring this guy back? Are you playing the same guy? Both in front of me! Are you saying this, playing the same guy both times? Yeah, or is it like a law and order thing? No, no, I was playing it was it was a recurring possible recurring right that did not recur and done He literally walked on set went we brought this guy back

Damn did not like me I love when a show like that runs so long and you're like, yeah, I get the premises right. Carrie, you're the retired commissioner. Tom Selleck is the commissioner. Donnie Wahlberg is the son who's like a cop or whatever. Well, there are three, it was in G. Will Estes.

Is someone also like the DA? Bridget Moynihan. Bridget Moynihan. And then by the way, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. Podcast about filmography. He's director of a massive success early on in the career. Steven Spielberg, he's a shit. Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmography. These directors have a massive success early on in their careers.

Steven Spielberg gives a shit. Blank checks! I'm sorry. So we can have our crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes they'll check clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby, we're doing a main series on the films of Steven Spielberg. It's called Podrassic Cast. Today we're talking about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. It's called what? Podrassic Cast.

Okay. Who's our guest? Podrassic Cast. Who's our wonderful, wonderful guest. Our guest today returning to the show. Inform out of town. Okay. Podrassic cast. He's our wonderful, wonderful guest. Our guest today returning to the show, Inform out of Town. Hello. The incredible Olivia Craighead.

Hi guys. And pinning the conversation, we're getting back to the Blue Leds conversation. Oh, okay, sure. Someone recently brought to my attention... Has iconography been pulled from the internet? Oh, has it? I don't know. They didn't tell me.

I saw... Don't think they told I either. There was a flare in the sky recently. Oh has it? I don't know. They didn't tell me. I don't think they told I either. There was a flare in the sky recently. Oh. I downloaded all the episodes. Well, I'm not subbing it. Permanently like a year ago. I will say. I was like I gotta worry. I have a feeling, a fear. I will say. Ultimately that might be for the best because we were talking a lot very candidly. But I can't think of one example of how that would possibly come back to bite either of you and me ass.

It would really hurt my career, I think. That's the problem. I was talking some shit about famous people and they might get back to me. I might be doing you a mitzvah if she allowed the show to be taken down. Last time you joined the Five Timers Club Lit. This time it's just your sixth episode, so whatever. This time I'm just chilling. Yeah, you're just chilling.

Look, dare I say it, this is, in a lot of ways, you're welcome to move sport. Because there was a notion last time, do you have to retire? Yeah. You did, your fifth episode was Steve Jobs. One of my favorite movies of all time. And now, Danny Boyle. We're here to just chat about kind of a movie.

But also, in that episode, you revealed that you had left us a burger report. Oh yeah. That was played on mic about Danny Boyle. Yeah. So it is kind of like... Before we knew you. Yeah, it was kind of like, I made a half-court shot.

Yeah, right. And now, like, what, two years later, I'm just kind of like... It was a full-circle moment. How's it ever gonna get better? Right, you're back and you're just gonna be like 12 and 8. It's most important. We're gonna try our best. 22 minutes. Blue Bloods, the brilliance of the show, Len Carrey, you retired.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Tom Selleck, commissioner. And then the three kids were like beat cop, detective, and DA. Lawyer, sure. So it's sort of like a law and order style show with like upper city hall politics.

So there was always like family dinner table, weekly family dinner, wherever it comes around. I feel like the key art was always dinner table. Right, but then the show could always be like, there are two cases every week, and they can be distributed across any of the characters. Different viewpoints. But there could also be some soapy drama.

Yes. But like... Kind of a good idea for a show. It's clearly an idea. No wonder it ran for fucking like zillion years. It's like a perfect idea for a TV show. And like, you know, like Jack Ryan, right? You check in with like...

The Shadow Recruit? You're talking about the Shadow Recruit? Right. What happened later with Jack Ryan? Like the books that like never got turned into movies. You're like, yeah, he becomes the president. America goes to war with China. Like all kinds of insane shit happens because he had to just keep writing stuff. Yeah.

So like in Blue Bloods season 10, yeah, it's like Donnie Wahlberg, the mayor. Like, no one will tell me, because no one's checking in. Correct. It's airing. It's out there. At a certain point, after a TV show hits season seven, it's like, who knows what's hap- Who knows what's happening at Grey's Anatomy?

Exactly. Where you're like, what happened? And they're like, ah, Alexi Grey, you know, has a Terminator eye. And you're like, she does? And they're like, yeah, come on, you knew about that, surely? She got it in the fourth musical episode. McDreamy came back as a ghost, and then she dumped the ghost version of him, because maybe the actor was difficult to work with.

They thought he had humbled, and he had. I think he did come back as a ghost when she had COVID. Yes. And she was on the COVID beach. Yes, there's the COVID beach season, right, where they acknowledge COVID. And then don't they have an episode after that where they're like, COVID will no longer

be mentioned on this show because we're sick of it. And that was that. Uh, I love the seasons of TV from like 2020 where it's like everyone's wearing a mask and like their law and order also does this where they're like, COVID's here. I do not, I guess, watch enough television.

It happened on like network shows. Yeah, exactly. I don't watch much. The only network show I watch is Abbott Elementary. I think that's the only network show I watch. Yeah. Which rocks, to be clear, I watch it because it's good. Yeah. But is there any other? I think I should get into Dr. Odyssey.

Well, you're not the first to tell me that. Everyone's speaking of COVID. It's come-able. Guys, you have to get on the Odyssey. Everyone's like, bags. Oh my God. And board the ship. Everyone's like, Joshua Jackson's in a throuple and. But that's a show. You have to get on the Odyssey. Everyone's like, Everyone's like, And board the ship. Joshua Jackson's in a throuple,

and he's like fucking a cocktail. And I'm like, and this is a next-fucking- cocktail. He's putting his penis in a martini. His dick's in a martini, exactly. And I'm like, uh-huh, and this is on Showtime? It's like, no, no, no, it's on fucking CBS or whatever. Is Fox? No, it's on ABC.

It's on ABC? It's on the same night as 9-1-1. But, okay, but then also I was told that in 9-1-1, or possibly the 9-1-1 spin-off, an asteroid hit Texas. That's 9-1-1 Lone Star. But like, there was like a meteor that struck the Earth. What did Rob Lowe stop it? And Jon Hamm played the meteor.

It's a full season arc. We were talking about how Jon Hammems on too many TV shows. That's what led to the conversation about is he the best TV actor? No, is it the best TV performer? Because I like him generally fine. But there's nothing like him as Draper. I agree. The only network show I ostensibly watch, I would say, is The Conners, the best written

comedy on television. But that's wrapping up, right? It's just ending. And I had to stop watching it during the pandemic because they were doing episodes about the pandemic. Right. I say, sure, it's topical. Multi-camera show, but with no audience now. Felt the difference. Yeah. Because I contended that was the only live studio audience show where you felt the interplay.

And I had to wait three years and I finally have now made it through the COVID years of Connors, which are good, I think. Well done. But I did not want to fucking watch them in 2020. There's an NCIS origins? Yeah, I'm just looking at Grisham. Just like what's on TV right now? What's on the schedule? Isn't it young Jethro Gibbs? It's young Mark Harmon played by Austin Stowell.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said CSI. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And then we're going to talk about Indiana Jones, a very big franchise. We'll do it in a second. Mark Harmon's son was playing the younger version of his character across seasons. They would do occasional flashback episodes and his son played the role. And at some point, I think his son and Harmon together went to CBS as part of probably summary negotiation on Harmon's part and we're like we want to pitch the idea of doing a full

NCIS origins and they were like we love that idea not you should yeah So he has been paid a tremendous amount of money to get off creator producer credit Right has given a bunch of interviews being like it was time for me to step back. And then they did a big casting search to find who the new young Mark Harmon was, but it's no longer Mark Harmon's son and he's probably going to make one trillion dollars. That's good for him. And then you don't have to star on a network TV show, which sounds like a lot of work.

The worst job anyone could ever have. Should I watch Saint Denis Medical? That's getting pushed on me. Yeah, I heard it's... That's like the new... I heard it's funny, I haven't watched it. I haven't watched it either. It's a good cast. Yeah, right.

David Allen Greer. Yeah. We love. Yes, in 1984, Steven Spielberg released a film called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. It was the direct sequel, although... It's quietly a prequel. But let's say the direct follow-up.

Yes, direct follow-up. To... A wildly successful film called Raiders of the Lost Ark. Yes, and in between he'd made some piece of shit called E.T. the extraterrestrial. Yes. So, like, you know, it's a exciting moment for a young Steven Spielberg. I just think they're interesting. Like, he's going into Raiders so like, you know, it's it's a it's a exciting moment for young Steven Spielberg

I just think they're interesting like he's going into Raiders being like I gotta prove myself 1941 is haunting me. Yeah, people were excited to see me fall Yes, right. I need to be responsible I need to just make a movie properly and have a go out and be an unqualified success He was my age when this Temple of Doom came out. That is so fucking dumb. He was like 38. It's pretty dumb.

I watched the HBO Spielberg documentary, which really sends home how young all those guys were when they were just like hanging out. It's why they're still hanging out. It blows my mind that he was just a kid when he made Jaws. It's just 20 something years. It's completely insane. It's crazy a kid when he made Jaws. It's just 20 something years old. It's completely insane. I know it's trite.

I hate that documentary because it's like, and then he won the Oscar for Schindler's List and then he made a few other movies. That did it in a really weird way. I want to hear about the back half of his career. I kind of want a 10 hour thing. It's one of the few things where it actually should be 10, one hour installment. Anyway, Steven Spielberg, Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom. What was your point, Griffin, beyond that?

Raiders, such an unqualified triumph that now he's back and better than ever. And I think, as we said in our episode, from that moment on, he's minted. It's not that he doesn't ever have failures again, but it's like, congratulations. We're no longer questioning you. You're Steven Spielberg. You will be Steven Spielberg for life. Your next 20 movies could be close-ups of diarrhea, you're still like in the tapestry of cinema history.

And he chooses to follow up Raiders of the Lost Ark with E.T., the highest grossing movie of all time, nominated for many Academy Awards, rudely perhaps not given them. And then it's interesting that he goes at a moment where he's like... Could do anything. Anything, anything, anything. There is obviously this outstanding handshake agreement, part of the original deal to do Raiders, a thing that he needed at that moment in his career in 1980, but does not need in the same way now.

But I think you're also starting to, at this moment, see the early stages of the bifurcation of Spielberg because another thing that happens in between the two Indiana Jones is Twilight Zone the movie sure sure which I do think starts to affect his headspace. Yeah, sure, right? It's just like the stakes of this are different. What am I agreeing to do? What am I doing with my power in my career, right? The responsibility of things And then the second thing is like fucking amblin's starting What am I doing with my power in my career? Right, the responsibility of things. And then the second thing is, like, fucking Amblin's starting.

Yeah, well, yeah, that's right. We'll talk about it, but that's... Culture Guys comes out the same year as ET. Gremlins comes out within weeks of Temple of Doom. The two PG-13 movies. Right. You know, like the two movies that prompted the creation of PG-13. Back to the future is the year after this.

Like, there's a shift you see from this movie on, where he's trying to like move past, can I get over just being on Wonder Spielberg? That I already feel in this movie, he's maybe trying to work best. Yeah. This movie is scary. And like, kind of upsetting to watch at times. Yeah. This movie is scary. Like kind of upsetting to watch at times. I find this movie upsetting to watch at times.

Olivia, what is your lifelong history with Dr. Henry Jones Jr.? Dr. Henry Jones Jr. Indiana, as you might call him. They called the movie Indiana, but yeah. I definitely owned, like my family definitely owned the box set of all three. And I think I, Raiders is obviously the one we watched the most followed by last crusade because we also owned a league of extraordinary gentlemen on VHS. And so I like Sean Connery.

Now that's a VHS I hope you held on to. It's probably worth a lot of money. Yeah, exactly. A lot of huge information here. I'm pinning LXG for later. My question is, when you're watching Last Crusade, are you going, oh my God, it's the guy from LXG? Literally, yeah. Okay.

Corner Manes here. Yes. And then Temple Doom was scary, and my mom was always like, this is the movie that made PG-13, so it's like, we Doom was scary and my mom was always like, this is the movie that made PG-13, so it's like, we gotta pump it, the breaks for like, these two children. But I imagine for you, the type of person you are, that like, sticks in your craw immediately. Obviously that is like, the trivia that is just like, burrowed into my brain. But also that you're like, what is it about that movie?

And I think she, I remember my mom being like, a guy gets his heart ripped out in this movie. And I was like, that is scary. But I also think that Stevens-Bilberg was the first person I knew as a director. Basically had to be? Yeah. For anyone born after 1975? He was the first person where I was like,

that is something a person can do as a job, I think. Right, right. You wear... Because I was aware of Indiana Jones. And then I think as like a 10-year-old, I was vaguely aware of like Schindler's List. It was like sort of just in the air. And I was like, those are the same name. That's weird.

But we were talking in our Raiders episode with Brian Michael Bendis, who is... was of an age to be growing up as these films were coming out. Yeah. Right, he is a child, but these movies are being presented, Steven Spielberg is emerging in his lifetime, and he put forward this thing I hadn't really considered because of us growing up, being born into a world where he is a given,

that he was kind of the first filmmaker that was like, opening the book, who was like playing the role of I'm a filmmaker I'm doing behind the scenes. Let me tell you how this all works let me tell you what I do. I'm putting out fucking CD-ROMs like there was a sense of not just like he is the most successful filmmaker alive but also he is a little more open source with it. I think you can I think that obviously inspires a lot of the Amblin stuff too. Cause he is such a shepherd of other people's projects. Yeah.

But I also just feel like that's a thing. We all know what Steven Spielberg looks like on set. That is the thing. I, I don't think I had ever known what a director would look like, but I knew, cause Steven Spielberg is always yapping on TV or whatever. But I think about that too, or like any cartoon show I watch that would parody like the filming of a movie, is doing some riff on Spielberg to a certain extent at that point, you know?

Or they're doing like some really old, fuddy-uddy guy. Like in the like riding pants and the boots. With the fucking horn, yeah. Which we should maybe bring back. But I do think there's that kind of like, you know, glasses, beard, hat, sort of doing the... With the hands. Framing with the fingers kind of thing.

Like, he was messaged to people as like, this is a director, this is what they do, this is what their job is. You could parody the way someone gives direction. Yeah. Based on like clips you're seeing circulated of Steven Spielberg making movies. He definitely is the first director I'm aware of.

I think of him wearing hats. He wears a hat with a battleship's name on it. And you're like, is he the captain of the battleship? He's like, no, he just wears hats. He kind of really looked cool in the 70s and 80s. He's cool. I mean... He is a huge nerd. He's the biggest nerd alive. But he looked cool. He was dressing well.

And also, this is kind of a tangent, he really... Gabriel LeBel really looks like him. It's kind of... I was watching the early Spielberg parts of the documentary and I was like, that does look like Gabriel LeBel. But I think it does something. I think Gabriel LeBel is very good. Google globe nominee.

Yes. This is what I was going to say. I don't think he looks like Lorne Michaels and yet there are moments in Saturday night, risable movie, that I'm like, God, he looks so much like Lorne Michaels. I do think he's good at figuring out how to lock into some cellular conjuring of people. I think he's such a fantastic actor and I don't know what is really gonna send him to the moon. Who's the next young guy in the 70s that he can play? Like come on, give me another name.

Richard Nixon. No. He's just doing secret honor. I do think that it should have been the Fable Mints. My big take on the Fable Mints is that the poster ruins that movie. have been the fable mint. People, you know. My big take on the fable mint is that the poster ruins that movie. I think the poster and trailer. Because the poster makes it look like, oh, this is about movies. And it's like, this is actually, that's not what this movie is really about.

No, it's about being fucked up when Seth Rogen cocks your whole goddamn family. And who amongst us can't relate to that? No, I was talking to someone about Gabriel LaBelle and being like he's one away from Chadwick Boseman territory Like he can't do another don't have a person at a young age thing No, but come on like you should play Paul Simon next cuz he's short I think that would be awesome. What's the exact danger. Oh my god, the most like self-important, cock-sucking movie about Paul Simon like breaking the apartheid embargo and going to South Africa to make Graceland. That is not when we would do that.

I know, this is what I'm saying. I'm trying to think of the worst movie possible, where it's like few dared to go like hang out with ladies with, ladiesmith black mambazo. They should do a movie that's about Paul Simon and Carrie Fisher being married. Yeah, that sounds like a fun time. Anyway, there's so many jokes I could make right now, but unfortunately, now that we have said it, Gabrielle Bell is definitely going to play Paul Simon in something, I'm sorry.

I don't look forward to it. It's definitely gonna happen. I'd like someone to write him an original role. I would too, I would truly like. Do you guys see Snack Shack? I've heard wonderful things about it. What the hell? What the hell is Snack Shack? I've heard wonderful things about the hell You can't be making up movies right now I want to make it clear I we look we will have a full episode discussion of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

We just haven't seen Olivia. I know we're really just the pre talk that we usually do before recording I'm surprised you haven't heard of it cuz Sean fantasy is always talking about it. I love this. Okay, I'll watch it Yeah You should watch it. You should watch it. Gabriel LeBel is like the supporting role in it and he's really good in it and for plot reasons he's kind of not in the second half and the movie gets way worse when he's not there. You feel the lack of...

I'm trying to think what the equivalent... He's not the booger, but he's like the Fennessy fast talking best friend. Yeah, there's like the anxious main protagonist and then there's like his finesse fast-talking best friend. Yeah, there's like there's like the anxious main protagonist And then there's like his cool suave right I'm in a little out in the movie sure Seen this year because I can't imagine why oh wait is it my wife? That's to be clear I didn't do anything. Okay. I tried I tried to help as best I could news to me Fun fact as I said I wanted to bring up on this Olivia one of the first people in my life

to know that my wife is pregnant. I'm pretty curious about this. Fully on accident, because I was... You were trying to show me a picture on your phone. Of my daughter, my ex-ditch daughter at the time. And I saw a sonogram and I said, oh! You said, is that a sonogram? And I was like,

Olivia, I'm just gonna put my cards on the table. It was like February, it was like one month. Anyway, another movie that passed me by Olivia, I'm just gonna put my cards on the table. It was like February. It was like one month. Wow. Anyway Another movie that passed me by that everyone's now talking about Christmas Eve and Miller's point people like this I gotta check this movie out. Yes. It's some Christmas movie with Michael Sarah's in it. I don't Francesca Scorsese

Francesca Scorsese Isn't it fantastic? I have no You know who else is in it? Sawyer Spielberg, if I'm not mistaken. Sawyer Spielberg's in it. Yeah. Yeah. The son of Steven Spielberg. Richard Brody loves it.

Kate Capshaw. Well done. Sawyer Spielberg, I think, is first billed. I'm looking at it now. It's got weird billing. OK. Every time I see the trailer, it confuses me. Just saw Richard at the Critics Circle vote.

Always lovely to see Richard. OK, listen just saw Richard at the critic circle vote always lovely to see okay listen Indiana Jones temple of doom yes, Spielberg is kind of hot Taken Doesn't mean I can't Spielberg son we litigate this and other Indiana Jones episodes But I did not see any of these movies until I was 19 or 20. Really?

You watched them all, as you said, in the Raiders app, basically in a weekend leading up to Crystal Skull. Yeah. As like, I gotta fix this blind spot. That's so interesting. I think I had the experience that many a young child had with Temple of Doom, where I watched Raiders of the Lost Ark, liked it, had a great time, watched Temple of Doom, and was allowed to, because my parents were like,

right, Indiana Jones is in that, that's for children, right? And was a little perturbed by it. Like, and was just kind of like, I'm not having fun. Even though there's like a kid in this, and like they're in mine carts, and Indiana Jones is here, I feel a little sad watching this, a little freaked out. And that was... And yeah, I've seen this movie many, many, many times.

Because I guess they're just on TV and shit. And then did Last Crusade feel like a Return to Triumph film? Oh, they're having fun again, Ben. This is a freak movie. I mean, you know, did you vibe with the freakiness at all? I don't think I saw this until I was an adult. So you didn't have... I think this was just one I totally missed.

Ben, I don't know if you feel the same way, but this is the one where I'm like, I'm losing something by not having seen it as a child, because I think... It's not gonna upset you as much as a grown-up. Right. I think there's some power to this movie that I can't absorb because I didn't see it at an age where it could actually unnerve me.

And I think when people talk about the legacy of this movie, that's a huge part of it. So when you watch it, are you not like, ah, like are you not, do you not find it scary or upsetting? I mean, here's my experience. My old roommate Spike loans me his DVD set. When I'm in conversation, mention I've never seen any of them. He's like, you gotta fuckin' watch these

before Crystal Skull comes out. I live in the bedroom of the shitty apartment. I watch Raiders, I walk out. He goes, eh, pretty good, huh? I go, yeah, it's fun. He's like, that's one of the best movies ever made. I'm like, I guess I gotta study that more to figure it out, right?

Then the next night, I watch Temple of Doom. I walk out, I'm like, that sucks? Like, I was I'm like, I guess I got to study that more to figure it out, right? Then the next night I watched Temple of Doom. I walk out, I'm like, that sucks. Like I was sort of like, am I crazy for having that opinion? And he makes the whole case, no, it's weird because it's dark and it's this and it's that. But people do hate it. And I was like, oh, interesting. I had never caught wind of this. Even in the like Star Trek, you know, oh, the odd number of movies are bad and the evens are good kind of like I had never Gathered that one of them was unpopular or at least more controversial, right? So then I was just like well

I feel validated my opinion that this is the one that sucks and then I watched last crusade and I'm like that one's My favorite because it's goofy and it's full of bits. Mm-hmm That's where my like opinions form in that first and this is full of bits to brain bits Well for you, but yeah, so then I just held on to this like Temple of Doom sucks Form in that first week of watching this. This is full of bits too. Brain bits. Well. For you to gnaw on. So then I just held on to this like, Temple of Doom sucks. We all agree that Temple of Doom sucks, right? And I feel like especially in the last 10 or 15 years,

I think there's been a rising as like the generation that saw it as children have taken over the discourse from the people who saw it as adults and were like, what the fuck is this? And I feel more like an adult grump who's like, what the fuck is this? It is the one I rewatched the most. Interesting. Because I so badly want to lock into it.

And there are a couple key blocks I have with it. I don't know that it's a movie that anyone can really lock into. I know there are some people who really like it. I feel like there are a few people out here who are like, that is my favorite Indiana Jones movie. Which is certainly a take. It's not one I have. But I do know that some people like it. But I think it's a movie that kind of doesn't want you to walk into it. So here's my thing. I tend to love movies like that to a degree where our

listeners think that I am just a contrarian asshole, right? But there is something that really activates me in a sequel that feels like it's biting the hands of the people asking for it. Where any sort of like left-handed, we're zagging against our expectations, we're going darker, we're going weirder, we're withholding the thing you like the most movies, I tend to always lean in. Even if I think they don't work,

there is like the Joker-Folly-A-Duh effect, where I'm like, but what this movie's trying to do is really interesting to me. That's the part of me that's surprised that I have such a struggle with this, because I am usually such an easy lay for just the weird sort of like contrarian swing of an experimental sequel in any way.

I wouldn't call this an experiment. I think this is a movie that got away from them. I think this is a movie that got away from them. That's how it plays to me when I watch it. I think this is a movie that makes a lot more sense when you realize that George Lucas and Spielberg were both like having crumbling marriages. The divorce movie.

Exactly. But same with like, that's how I feel about The Abyss, where I'm like, this is a divorce movie. This is a movie that's just made with a black cloud over someone's with like, that's how I feel about The Abyss, where I'm like, this is a divorce movie. This is a movie that's just made with a black cloud over someone's head, and that's interesting. But let's state this right from the top. This is like the nadir of George Lucas's personal life dissolving, right? This is like...

Right. Marsha Lucas left him for the stained glass person or whatever. Deep in the midst, right? Has that come up before? Never. You know, people bring it up all the time on the Reddit, I want to say. Right? We've talked about this before, how I freak out at you about that. It's mostly because we had absolutely no time because someone...

It was like fucking, you know... Shannon O'Neill was... Yeah, I don't want to speak ill of the UCB network, but it was time for like... There was the Matrix episodes where Shannon O'Neill knocked on the door, and that's why both those episodes are two minutes long. Right. But there was something else going on there. It was something like that. We had no time in our little closet to...

Am I wrong in thinking we recorded three episodes in that one day? At least two. Like, we were certainly, like, sandwiching episodes together anyway. It's a million years ago. The other thing I always mention was that... And everyone's like, David's just, like, cutting Griffin off. And I was like, we were 40 minutes in, and, like, we hadn't gotten to gotten to like Jabba's palace or whatever.

Look, you need to wear this failure. Like flavor, flavor is a clock, but that's what Alec Baldwin says in Aloha. Sounds like a terrible line. I've been trying to work it back into the vernacular of the podcast. Blank check 10, a decade of dreams. Let's remember all the great moments Jesus I forgot you guys did Cameron Krauss That's why I need to point back at the wall Olivia and go remember when Alec Baldwin says you wear this like for flavor's a clock the point is

What was my point? Yeah, yeah George Lucas George Lucas is in a dark as hell place, right? But here is a timeline that everyone gets wrong that I just want to remind people of. Yeah Steven Spielberg dates Amy Irving for most of the 70s on and off friend of the show and what I am saying It's just public record. This is not any inside information. I've had no conversations with her about this. No, we did not grill Amy Irving about this I'm just dating numbers Steven Spielberg Amy Irving date on off for most of the 70s, right? then there's like a more serious breakup in 1979 big breakup then in

1983 he films a movie called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom starring Kate Capshaw as the female lead a woman who we all now know is Steven Spielberg's long time wife. They've been married for 30 plus years and people are like, oh, that's where they met and they fell in love Do you know what happens in 1985? He marries Amy. The year after this is released. And impregnates her. Yes, and as Amy Irving told us and I forget if if we put it on mic, Barbara Streisand took full credit. Yep. Barbara Streisand takes credit.

That made it. For getting them back together. And for getting her knocked up. Both. Specifically. Said you're gonna get pregnant. Yes. Like truly Barbara Streisand was like, I will this into existence.

And Amy Irving was like, no you didn't. We did cut one thing out of that episode that we'll tell you off mic because you deserve to hear it. Yes, it was incredible. But yes, Temple of Doom released in 84. Amy Irving marriage, 85. Their son, I think, is born later that year in 85 or 86. And then they don't divorce until 89.

Yep. But then when does he marry? 1991. Okay. But it's a little weird because he did meet her making this movie. So yeah, I don't know. One of my favorite throwaway 30 Rock jokes is when Kenneth tells Tracy, Steven Spielberg wants you to be in his next movie and Tracy says, Kate Capshaw's husband?

Incredible. It's so stupid. I think I've talked about this before, but my beloved departed IMDB message boards, what used to be the most unhinged place on the internet, where every single project or person who had any IMDB page had their own designated IMDB message board. Any random PA had their own designated message board. And there was one guy who kept posting in the Kate Capshaw message boards, I got this script that I really think has a perfect part for Kate.

Does anyone know how to get through to Kate? I know she's been retired from acting. She doesn't have representation anymore. Is there know how to get through to Kate? I know she's been retired from acting. She doesn't have representation anymore. Is there any way to get through to Kate? And this guy would post this like once every six months and people would go, we fucking get it, man. You're trying to get Steven Spielberg to read your script. And he'd go, I am not Kate.

I always loved Kate as an actor. Does anyone know if maybe because she doesn't have representation who actually contacted her husband? Her home address might be, or I could drop it off. Maybe, I don't know, what does her husband do? Is he home a lot? Could I hand the script off to him? All I'm saying is...

It's more the Lucas divorce movie than it is the Spielberg divorce movie. Well, it's not the Spielberg divorce movie because everyone knows, oh, he was with Amy Irving and then he was with Kate Capshaw. People assume his marriage to Amy Irving is falling apart and out of the Phoenix comes Kate Capshaw. When in fact, the timeline of that whole thing seems very bizarre. Yeah, but it's like he's coming off of several years of being ostensibly single. He meets her, then he gets back together with his old on and off girlfriend, has a child, divorces, gets together with Kate Kepchon. Hollywood's so messy. Whatever's going on with Steven Spielberg at this time is not divorce shit. I just think that needs

to be cleanly stated. Let's open the dossier to just get more into this, okay? David? February. It's time for February movie preview, okay? And I gotta say, it's a pretty interesting February we have coming up. Yeah, what do we got? The Monkey, actually called The Monkey, new film from Oz Perkins, whose long legs I loved last year,

starring another one of our friends, passing future guest Tatiana Mizalani. That's right. And looks very, very funny and cool and scary. Also, and very intrigued by this Martin Campbell action or cleaner with Daisy Ridley. Starring Daisy Ridley, someone I've always had very, very calm opinions about on this podcast. I'm very excited for it feels like she's kind of ramping up her movie career again.

Here's the thing. Oh, and then there's the day the Earth blew up. I was going to say, if that weren weren't enough February ending with the first original Feature length animated Looney Tunes movie ever that I have heard is excellent And here's the thing the day the earth blew up in a Looney Tunes movie What's awesome about all this is that there's lots of interesting different kinds of movies See and with regal unlimited the whole point is you sign up and seeing three, four, five, six of those movies is easy and affordable.

And I find that once you have the Regal Unlimited, right, sort of the option of basically, like, let me pop over my theater. I have three free hours. You do it more. That's what's nice about it. You do it more. You do it more. Go see the movies. Go see the movies. Go see the movies. Sign up now in the Regal app.

Yes. Or the link in the description in our show notes and use code blank check to get 20% off your three month subscription. And then you're gonna be in the Crown Club. You're gonna get rewards. You're gonna build up points. You can get free popcorns and sodas and upgrades.

25% off candy on Tuesdays, 50% off popcorn, discounted tickets. Go to the Regal Crown Club website. And as I said, it's a little deep, it's a little buried in here. There is a section where you can redeem your points for old promotional movie memorabilia like Red 1 socks. Follow the link in the show notes, go to the Regal app, click on the unlimited banner, and then follow the instructions to sign up and enter promo code blank check when prompted to receive your discount. And look, I'm just going to say it again, David, signing up for Regal Unlimited or maybe gifting a membership to a moviegoer in your life.

Sure. Great way to support the show. This is this is a dream advertiser. Yes. A dream partner for us. We want to keep this going. We think it could benefit everybody, especially the movies. Raiders of the Lost Ark. Successful. Perfect movie.

Big hit. To me. And because of its success, really never any doubt that it would have a sequel and Lucas had always envisioned sequels just like those old Republic serials that always had sequels. Well, and as we discussed, when Lucas presented this idea to Spielberg, I got an idea, I'd love for you to direct it, there's a handshake agreement of, but if you're doing this, you got to make three of them. I want this to be an ongoing series.

But it is a handshake deal, not a contract. He has contractual deals with other people. Paramount is committed to three, I think Ford's committed to three, is that correct? Yes, but- But Spielberg's just a handshake. But Spielberg also says that George had said, like, well, I have ideas for other movies. And then when George was like, it's time for another movie, he didn't have any ideas for any other movies.

Weird. George Lucas starts pitching ideas. So George Lucas told people publicly that he had a really big, long. It all, the pod racing was always there. This just doesn't sound like my man. He pitches an idea centered around a haunted castle in Scotland. Sounds kind of fun.

Sounds cool. I think that sounds cool. But Spielberg had just... Sounds cool and sounds like it would be less racist. More racist in a fun way against the Scottish people. We could all laugh at that. Okay, there's a ghost, you know. The accents would be like funny.

No one ever gets offended by Shrek. Exactly. Has a single group complained about the representation in Shrek. You should do a Shrek-Indiana Jones crossover. Indiana Jones should play Shrek. That sounds like the kind of poisonous shit that Hollywood would love to make. So Spielberg's like, ah, just- So the Deadline said Olivia has just been placed-

Isn't Shrek Dreamworks? In charge of Paramount Pictures. Well now... Yeah, but now Dreamworks is owned by Universal or Paramount? Oh, you're right, it's fucking Universal. Hey, look. Spielberg had just worked on Paltryk Ice. He doesn't wanna do a ghost story, so no. Oh, sure.

Okay. So instead, George throws the ideas to Willard, how do you say his name? Hook? Yeah. And Gloria Katz, who obviously wrote American Graffiti with him and go on to make Howard the Duck. Yes.

And I think they'd done a little work on Star Wars. They'd absolutely done work on Star Wars. They were sort of his go-to married couple, writer team friends. And they pitch an idea called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Death, submitting a 20 page story treatment that was set in India. They were very interested in Indian culture. They traveled there. They were collecting Indian art.

And they were also really looking at the movie Ganga Din, which of course is a really sensitive and textured portrayal of life in India. But I guess like that kind of an adventure story, right? of life in India. But I guess like that kind of an adventure story, right? And then, you know, the Himalayas or something. Now, let me say, Willie and Gloria, I think their main role in the Lucasfilm ecosystem for many years was they were the people who understood characters and how human beings talked and were the ones who put some sort of reasonable semblance of recognizable human emotion into his movies. Interesting.

The times they were credited versus the times they were not, I think they were always that sort of counterbalance. That was their role, sure. For them to be the primary writers on this, I don't think they were usually the ones who were figuring out story beats or the world building or all of that, right? Like, Lawrence Kasdan was pretty unique

in having a mind for both of those things. I think Kasdan for him was kind of one of those hires of like, you handle this shit and then I'll put the Lucas on top of it. Or I give you the Lucas stuff and you write within that structure. Didn't he offer it to Kasdan first? Kasdan was just not interested. And they also said like, Indiana Jones and Temple of Death is set in India and Kasdan was immediately turned off.

But Kasdan's career is also like rolling now. He's getting hot. Yeah, yeah, he's getting hot. But it's just, I'm rewatching it again. When the opening credits come up, I was just like, oh, right. It's just the two of them credited as the writers. Yep. There are other people credited for story, but it's a little surprising that it's just

the two of them. So they start to kind of be like, well, we could do all the stuff we wanted to do before George Steve didn't you always want to like do a musical sequence? We could do like a Busby music Berkeley musical Yeah George didn't you want Indy to like wear a suit and go to a nightclub and kind of be like a sexy guy like be? James Bond right we can do that and like right Steve didn't you always want to do a James Bond movie? We can like kind of do a James Bond thing where we start in another mission before we start our main mission, right?

It's like an appetizer sampler platter of a movie. Yes. When this movie starts, which is when all of that stuff happens, I'm kind of on board. You're on board! The first like 10 minutes, I'm like, this is awesome. The first 20 minutes, I would say, or at least 15, I love. And every time I'm like, am I going to 100% lock in?

And then it falls off for me. But beyond that, when I look back at it, I'm like, everything I like in the first 15 minutes is not really a good Indiana Jones movie. No, it starts as kind of like a good movie. There's a good musical number and then a great James Bond sequence. I love the musical number. It's so good So fun. I think it's so well directed I think it's crazy that it took him so long to make a musical

It is crazy. He should have made one per decade. Like he really should have kept yeah I mean he clearly wanted or like loves the form. He loves it. Like is good at it I mean look the whole thing. It's kind of the peak of Kate Capshaw's performance. It is it's the best She's I mean, it's probably why she was cast because she's good at that shit. Yeah. But I'd also argue it's a problem because it starts so hot. And that's the second she isn't singing. I'm like, what the fuck? She starts singing again. He leaves in this bit where she sort of trips going up the platform too, that I think is so charming and fun. And then Indiana Jones throws a bunch of flaming ducks

at a guy on the spear. I like all of that stuff. Like all of that stuff is really good. Yeah. The whole thing with Temple would do my entire take is you are in the hands of a master pretty much the whole time. That's why it's very watchable. Like his grasp of everything at this point is total.

See, he's always like a ten out of ten action filmmaker, and he's making a very fast-paced action movie. And whenever that's happening, you're pretty... It's good! Yes, and then people will talk and there's a plot and it kind of... Huge mistakes on that front. Here's the thing that is weird to me from the jump, from the beginning, is that in that first scene in the restaurant, he's exchanging that, like, monkey figurine thing

for a diamond, which doesn't make sense with who we know Indiana Jones to be. He would be way more suited than the fucking monkey. Yeah, he would want to take that to a museum. Like, the idea that, like, we know this guy to be Professor by day and, like, Adventurer by other day is completely kind of thrown away.

I agree. I think the characterization is totally wrong. Sort of the argument of like, oh, maybe he's learning how to be indie, but they don't really get that word. How many years old were Raiders is this supposed to be? It's a good question. I guess it's like six or seven, right? Like not many. There is a Chiron, is there not? Yeah. I I guess it's like six or seven, right? Like not many.

There is a Chiron, is there not? I mean it's 1935. I'm just trying to remember when Raiders takes place. Oh, 1936. Okay, so yeah, fuck me. It's just right before Raiders. Okay. Yeah. Okay. But even still, I remember watching it when the year comes up and going like, wait a second the math being like this is a prequel and then I go oh so this is gonna be that story this is how Indiana Jones became Indiana Jones right that is not a movie they're interested in making I even was like oh the reason short round is in this movie

is because short rounds gonna experience a tragic death this is gonna be something at forms number seeing the sidekick that he lost before we met him previously no incidental by all accounts the only reason this is a prequel not a sequel is that Spielberg didn't want to do Nazis Yeah, I don't want to do Nazis and I guess but let me keep going on this. Okay Okay, George Lucas has already made Empire Strikes Back. So he's like we should do what I did there again. Well, which is a darker movie It's spookier. Let's do this like, you know death cult thing, right? Let's just let's lean into the dark and I'm gonna put the world's biggest pin in that. Famously, the darker tone of Temple of Doom

is ascribed to a few things. One, George Lucas' divorce from Marsha Lucas. Two, Steven Spielberg's breakup with on again, off again, Bo, Amy Irving, friend of the show, past guest, future guest. Three, and JJ was really hammering this, as you said, Twilight's on the movie. What a horrible experience Spielberg had. Spielberg had being associated with that, the death of Vic Morrow and all that stuff. It's not like Spielberg was present for the

death of Vic Morrow, but nonetheless, his name's on the movie. Basically, willed that movie into being and then had to make a very haunted, terrible segment afterwards to complete his contractual obligations. But I think was just like deeply wounded by the entire traumatizing. Lucas and Spielberg candidly say afterwards, like we were in bad moods, we look back at the movie and we're like, maybe we took this to a bit of a dark extreme. Like we were, you know, kind of in a whatever kind of, you know, Paul had been cast over things. But I agree with JJ's assessment that I do think the core darkness from Spielberg's end

is coming from the shadow of Toilets in the movie. Spielberg also has another shadow he's dealing with, which is the first time he's making a sequel. And so you've got all the pressures of making a sequel to a beloved, gigantic hit. And it's not like Star Wars where there's like, you know, like, yeah, we're gonna keep going. Like, what are midichlorians? No one's told me yet.

Can someone tell me? Does anyone know? Indiana Jones, it's like, you know, like, yeah, we're gonna keep going. Like, what are midi-chlorians? No one's told me yet. Can someone tell me? Does anyone know? Indiana Jones, it's like, yes, you could make more, but the movie doesn't end with like, then what happens? So can I take my giant pen out here? Because you've set this up now. I get what Lucas is saying, especially because Empire Strikes Back is a triumph.

Even if at the time it was received with a little bit of confusion. Not as extreme as Temple of Doom, but people were like, what's this? Why is it such a bummer? Why is it in a cliffhanger? Whatever. Right? I get him being like storytelling rules.

Act two needs to be the dip so there's a place for the heroes to come back and recover. I think that's fundamentally wrong for Indiana Jones, which is designed to be like serialized standalone adventures. It is not about character growth. That makes sense if you're making a trilogy of stories that are telling one greater sob. I agree, sure. Which by design is not what he's trying to do. So I'm like you can't do the middle darker entry when you're like all of these are just whatever. They're adventures. I think the point becomes even less powerful when you're making it

a prequel. So you're like oh it, it's the mid dark chapter before his like ultimate, you know, victory at the end. And I'm like, no, you're putting his darker stuff at the beginning, which if you're gonna do that, then it's intentionally, I think you got to do the like sort of Casino Royale, what made him shit, which this movie is not doing at all. Completely uninterested. Last Crusade does a better job of 20 minutes of that at the beginning, which is one of my favorite sequences. That's a great sequence. Right. But I'm like, you could start this

from the place of like, Indiana Jones is an adult man, but here's how the persona grew, right? He had this sidekick he lost. Like, any time the first time I'm watching this film, it sets up an element that I know isn't present Raiders. I'm like, there's gonna be some narrative beat to explain what changed him. There's no payoff from the fact that it's a prequel.

It gains nothing from it. You could just, you could say that it was... Or from the relationships he makes. I think it's truly avoiding two things. I think they were like, A, don't want to make another Nazi movie, and B, doing another movie after Raiders with a different female lead Yeah, we'll piss people off because they like Marion and we don't want to make a movie of him in a serious relationship So said it earlier. Yeah, which doesn't help them because now we're gonna sit here going who the fuck is this?

And why isn't she married remember how we all? like cool woman who Movies who wasn't like, stop the movie! Kate Capshaw made a movie called A Little Sex. Wait a second. I'm interested. This movie has just a little. A Little Sex.

That's better than nothing. A Bruce Paltrow movie, of course. And was not interested in making a franchise, you know, sequel movie or whatever. But then she auditioned and she met this Steven Spielberg guy, I was kind of charmed by him. Anyway, they ended up getting married and all that shit. Yeah.

You know. What? I mean. What? I mean... What? It's just sort of like, I feel like Spielberg trying to like, rationalize what he was doing and the kind of acting he was looking for.

I'm just kind of like... Out of her. You can't talk about how your wife is kind of bad in this movie. No. You know, so it's like, I'm never gonna get a quote from Spielberg about Kate Capshaw and Deanna Jones

in the Temple of Doom. I feel like, if you'm never going to get a quote from Spielberg about Kate Capshaw in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. I feel like if you were out- That's a beating like, eh. If you were like friends with Kate Capshaw and it came up, she would be like- I think so. This is not- I think she would. Yeah.

I think she would. And she would be like, huh, what happened to my career? I guess fucking, yeah. And I think- She had good performances after this. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. But nonetheless, it's kind of like what defines Kate Capshaw and the Temple of Doom.

Here's the other thing is that I think that it is not a well-written role. Thank you. OK. This is what I'd like to talk about. She does not have much to work with. It is not. She doesn't have much to work with, and she doesn't do a great job of pulling out what they're.

Like, my thing is that if this were Goldie Hawn, we would. Olivia, I mean. I've been sitting on this for two weeks. If this were Goldie Hawn, or if it were a couple years later and it was Meg Ryan, we would all... It would be kind of a different thing. But Goldie Hawn was my exact one that I've been stewing on. It is so obviously supposed to be Goldie Hawn.

And he's fucking, he's in her first movie! We do the Sugar Land episode where, like, it's kind of weird he never worked with her ever again. I mean, she's too Famous, I guess Sequels are not cool back then. Yeah, but but it's Indiana Jones Star Wars has D Destigmatized sequels a little bit, right? Yeah, and what they're gonna get out for the third movie is hey two legends on the poster They get to that they do they should have gotten there on this one.

I think if it's Goldie Hawn, the role probably gets beefed up. And she is so naturally funny that it, like, the whole thing with, like, oh, the elephant is playing with her hair and all the physical comedy, all of that stuff would be so much better just due to the fact that it is, like, one of the most naturally gifted comedians ever. She's the exact name I landed on, and I'm like,

I still think this character is misconceived. I think she's misconceived as a character, but also misconceived in relation to the movie, in terms of what makes an Indiana Jones movie work. She's playing against a lot of what they need to motor this film across. The, her existence, Willie Scott as a character. The whole time she is just there to kind of get in the way, which is not a good character trait.

She's a video game character, keeps like walking in front of your gun. The game is like, protect Willie Scott. You're like, well, she's not walking in front of me. Yeah, it's like, oh, it's like she can't help them because she's like scared of slimy stuff. And it's like, protect Willie Scott. And you're like, well, she should stop walking in front of me. Yeah, it's like, oh, it's like she can't help them because she's scared of slimy stuff. And it's like, that is not. This lives in my head forever, but Ben Edlin

would always talk about this when we were working on The Tick because he was trying to make a TV series with a refusal of the call arc. And he was like, it's always the struggle of not creating characters who exist to try to stop the show from happening. Right, because then you're gonna hate them. That's the thing.

Yeah, it's like the whole audience. It's like even if there's a narrative purpose for that tension, the audience is like, fuck this guy. Go away. Why is she being such a bummer? And Willie Scott is like a perfect example of a character who's like, I hate this, stop this, let me out of the movie.

And I think it's like, I get that you have Marian in the first movie, and she's cool, and she can do her own thing, and she's brunette. And so the next one, you're like, -"How do we make it different?" -"What if there was a bad kiss?" What if she was blonde and couldn't do anything? It's the classic sequel thing of,

we should do the opposite of what we did last time. It's like, maybe we should find a redhead with a skill. Like, that is maybe the middle ground. There are other ways to go. Right, do the Witcher thing. The Witcher 3, of course, the greatest video game of all time. All the ladies are confident. They're just different. Brunette, black hair. They're so different. Black. But look, we talk about this in the Raiders episode. It becomes clear to them that they're

like, we had lightning in a bottle with Marion. No one wants to see him fall in love with anyone else, right? So the third movie makes the woman like a fake out and makes it a two-hander with his dad. And then the fourth movie makes a two-hander with his son and brings Marion back. And then the fifth movie. It's all under the movies, baby. I have not dialed in.

You wanna dial in? Should I? You wanna get that rotary phone? That's why you're the best, Olivia, cause you like to turn the titles into verbs the way we do. Do you agree, post-Conclave, because this was an Olivia thing, that Tucci has the touch again?

Okay, I'm glad we're talking about this. I do think that Conclave brought the Tucci touch back. It was the first time in a while I felt it brushing against my shoulder. I was like, hello? Who's touching me? Tucci? It's a tickle. It's a tickle of the Tucci. I hope moving forward that he feels that.

I'm concerned because he's not getting a lot of, like, awards recognition. He's not getting, like, noms. But can I say this? I think that might be a good thing. Sure, get him thirsty again. Get him hungry for it. Right, I think if there is...

Unless he wants a James Beard award for making spaghetti all the time, all sexy. Well, he does clearly want one of those. I think he does. Rolling up the sleeves, getting his hands all flowery. I think there is an understandable impulse to over-praise and laud him for giving us a little bit of the magic back. And I was like, is he going to fucking like have too good of an Oscar season where then

he's happy just being at this level? Which I'm like, conclave's not your best work, my man, but you're getting back in the spirit of things. But he really has like... Yeah, he's doing what you like. He used to give us one of those a year. Totally. And now it's like the first in kind of three or four.

Right, and I wanna make him work a little harder to win his eventual Oscar. Yeah, exactly, he does need one. He does, he should have won for Spotlight. Yes. I mean, he's incredible in Spotlight. One of the great movies. He's incredible. I mean, I don't know. It's a good question.

What do I give? Do I give Tucci a win? I am ret... Julia, he's amazing. I was going back through my records and I'm like, in retrospect, I give Tucci the win for the Spotlight year. A year where on Mike, I, of course, gave supporting actor to Michael Shannon for the night before. That's crazy. He is so good in Spotlight.

He's also incredible in The Devil Wears Prada. Yeah. I really think he's kind of a winner as well. And that's a true supporting character. When is this episode coming out? That's just such a good question. March, April. Kind of question that I can answer

by opening the spreadsheet, which takes me one second. March second. By the time this comes out, there will have been a ton of category fraud at the Oscars, which usually I'm not upset about, but this year it's pissing me off. You're basically saying Kieran Culkin will have won an Oscar. Is that what you're saying? I think Kieran Culkin will have won an Oscar.

I think it's crazy that Zoe Saldana is being pitched as a supporting actress when she is the lead of that movie. She is? That movie didn't work for me. I sort of know what they're saying with like, no, Emilia Perez is the main character. Certainly the title. And she's the title.

And yes, Zoe Saldana's all over the movie, but she's kind of the narrator. She's... Zoe Saldana is the best performance in that movie. She's really good at it. Because she's the only thing where I'm like... Because me watching that movie, I'm like, what the fuck is going on here, guys? And she's the only one who's kind of... It's a really'm like because me watching that movie I'm like what the fuck is going on here guys, and she's the only one who's really good impression of you watching that movie

You just transported to a different place. I kind of she's kind of making me buy it sometimes. Yeah, I haven't watched it Oh, you need to watch it. Yeah, but here's the thing. I think back on I'm like You pull up the 1995 Academy Award nominations, and you're like, Morgan Freeman for best actor? We used to be a proper country. The bullshit they'd be pulling today to go like, oh, Shawshank is one lead, one supporting.

They would pull that bullshit. It is. So, I just think like- And you're like, that man ended up where he belonged. A deserved nomination, no category fraud. What were you gonna say, Leigh? I just think the Academy needs to Open their third eye and realize that sometimes a movie is about two men and they can both be the league Or perhaps even two women or oh, well, that's crazy

Well, that's my I know that kind of that kind of sexual nonsense doesn't happen in our Hollywood movies to women Amelia Perez and lawyer? I forget her name. Lawyer person? I don't know. I watched the movie like three days ago, and I don't remember her name. Anyway.

It's just one of those movies where I'm like, I think this movie is taking itself deeply seriously. It's a French guy. Like, that's all. I mean, how better to put it? I hate to be anti-French, but whenever they make a movie that like makes its way over here it's like, what is... What are you guys doing over there?

If Indiana Jones went to France and did some French shit and the movie was making fun of French people, we'd all be hooting and hollering. That would actually be... Okay, wait. He's serving them snails and it's like, ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho hooting and hollering. Okay wait. He's serving them snails and it was like, ho ho ho ho. French people are weird. Fuck this.

Movie would have aged perfectly. Okay, Captain's going like, ahhh, frog slings. That's good. If Catherine Deneuve is playing Willy Scott. And there's so much old shit in France. Okay, I mean you guys are so desperate for it, choose to go to a castle. I mean Harrison Ford's Desperate for as I was watching this movie. I was like I Could just watch a movie. That's like a guy going on an adventure every year and that sort of thing

We don't get enough of it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean obviously obviously there's like James Bond Because James Bond now it's like he's haunted by trauma and women. Yeah. And he has to wear the right watch and drive a Jaguar. I'm not like anti-franchise, but I want a new one. I want like a new character. Or I just want the Brendan Fraser mummy where they're just like, we're kind of doing Indiana Jones and we mix it with a couple of other things and enjoy it. I'm like, I will. Thank you very much.

But isn't the other problem here that these movies need to justify... They won't make these movies unless they think they can be billion-dollar movies, which means they need to cost $300 million, which means they need to be 10 things. This is part of the problem, but it's like, why? Okay, you know there's that tweet about how there's the Marvel movies that are fun to take drugs and watch, and then there's the baseball cap ones, right?

The baseball cap ones? Yeah, and it's just a picture of Chris Evans in a baseball cap where you're like, why is like half this movie just like people in clothes? Isn't this supposed to be about superheroes? Are those the ones where they're like, this is the parallax view? Yeah, exactly. It's kind of inspired by a 70s conspiracy. It looks like a fucking Epson commercial, but okay.

And like, that's like, why is the Tom Cruise mummy? It's like, it's like about a guy in pants and a shirt. Right. Like, why is it not about, you know, why didn't you look at the Brendan Fraser mummy and go like, yeah, people like Cro-Pacs and whatever. I'm sure the mummy returns once again has been announced by the time, right?

Like, that's in the works. I keep hearing things. Yeah, come on. It feels obvious, but no, Willie Scott conversation, right? I agree. It's like, the idea is wrong for what kind of, how do we make this different from Marion? It works against the movie. In trying to solve it in my mind,

I was like, the only way this works is if it's, like, Goldie Hawn is the only name that comes to mind who could have done this, but someone who has a preexisting comedic persona. What about Shelly Long? I think that would maybe work. Yeah, I think it could maybe work. I'm trying to think about people at that moment.

Well, here's my argument, okay? Like, Shelly Long, I think it could maybe I'm trying to think about people at that moment. Look here's here's my argument Okay, like Shelley long I think could have performed it well, but would still struggle to overcome some of the characterization, right? What about Dana Dana Wheeler Nicholson Fletch? Oh, yeah, I Like that. My point is I'm biased. Yeah this being post private Benjamin right if the poster is, hey, it's Indiana Jones and Goldie Hawn, and Goldie Hawn's holding up like a broken high heel, and she's got like a sideways smirk, the audience goes, I get it, I know what I'm paying to see.

I know what this is. I can play it out in my mind. Here's the funny scenario, right? Goldie probably plays it as well as anyone could, and also probably has enough clout to be able to like, push back and make like story contributions, whatever, which Shelley Long would not have, but also just puts the audience at ease of, I get it, it's a Goldie Hawn type. That's the version of it that probably works the best? Sure.

But you're talking about something that, and my guess is Goldie Hawn's off making Swing Shift and she's like, no, I am Goldie Hawn and the entire brand and I will not be some lady who's hanging out with me. But it kind of has to be someone who is as iconic as Harrison Ford. Well, they got King Capshaw. What do you think of him? And then she got a beautiful long marriage out of it. Right. Seven years later. Now, here's the other thing, as you said, that like Spielberg.

Apparently one of their kids is fucking, is a dumb, I don't want to dox your boyfriend, but he's out of here. Spielberg seems loathe to say anything critical about her performance in the press, which I get. Yeah. Of course. I would be... Here's the thing, if I'm Kate Capshaw, I would be like, I can say I'm bad in this movie. My husband who directed me in this movie is not allowed to say that I'm bad. But there's this other aspect to it, is just, and like Brian was talking about

this in our Raiders episode when you watch the behind the scenes of the movie and he's like, come on, do the scene with the bugs. Come on. And he's like being flirty and like making bargains with her. But they can't be like this is the movie where we met and fell in love because it's kind of not. There's that part of it. Even if no lines are crossed on set in 1983, right?

It is clear that the two of them have like a flirtation with each other that is getting in the way of perhaps the most disciplined processing of work. Like I think he is directing her differently than he has directed any other actor he has ever worked with. Well, okay, yes. Because the thing about him is that there aren't really like bad performances in Steven Spielberg movies so that this kind of sticks out Yeah, so like it's like Justin Chatwin in War of the Worlds where it rarely happens

So it's like Mary Robertson Hook, which is a notorious like both of them now go like we were going through our own shit And that was bad deal. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think of Julie Robertson Hook? I mean, I was a child so I I kind of liked what was going on there. I haven't really watched her as an adult, but... Olivia, on set, they called her Tinker Hell. Well, here's... Well, that's just too easy a joke. So they had to make it. I think Julia Roberts in the 90s seems like

she had a lot of stuff going on. Yeah, she had so much fucking... It's so crazy how she had so much stuff going on, and then she, like, monastically swore off of stuff. Like, you know, she was like, I'm done with stuff going on with me. She's basically been stuff-free for the last 25 years. She'll show up and things, and you're like, hey, it's Julie.

And she lives like a very chill life, like... But also like, you know, she falls in love with a married cinematographer on the set of a movie, breaks up that marriage, marries him, has twins. That didn't really constitute stuff. Like at the time that was not processed as stuff. Well, she wore that bitchy t-shirt, which is kind of stuff. It was treated a little bit as like,

thank God Julia finally found love. Everyone's just kind of happy for her. I do think there's a rewriting of the Julia narrative where people are like, in 1990, she becomes a movie star and remained a movie star. And it's like, there are five years where people were like, shut the fuck up! Fuck!

Where people- Go to jail! Were so tired of her in the press, they were tired of the movies, they were tired of her whole thing. And then she just like rebounded so hard, 97 to 2001. It's one of the great runs. Yeah.

Anyway, she's not in this movie. Kate Uquan is in this movie, of course. He was, his brother auditioned. And he tagged along. Kathleen Kennedy was like, I like that kid. Gets him in front of Steven Spielberg. He dresses up, right? Like he was in a little suit for this meeting. And they were like, Steven's like, please come back looking more casual.

Like this is not what we were thinking. Comes back as more of a kid and Steven to be like, you got the point. I mean, he is. He's really good. So precious. And he's so cute. I also think here's my other, my other, not to shit on Kate Capshaw so much, to shit on Willie Scott, actually.

Yeah, yeah. That's a thing. I want to make it clear. Willie Scott's a problem. Yes. And Kate Capshaw is only partially responsible for that. Okay, here's my, with the three of them... Harrison Ford has so much more chemistry with Kehue Kwan...

than he does with Kate Capshaw. And so, like, I want to see just them two for the movie. I think you're right, but here's the thing that's even crazier. It's like Temple of Doom, everyone's like, no one likes that. Because it added an annoying kid sidekick, and everyone's like, actually, no, Short Round kind of works. The kid's not the problem. No. And I feel like at the time maybe there was a little bit

of grousing about like, uh, kid psychic. Like George Lucas always, you know, these days, everything's so kid-friendly. But Short Round completely works. I think so. It's an incredibly lovely natural performance. And like you say, Harrison Ford has genuine chemistry with him. It's just weird that that's not the problem with this like I would rather see this movie

Wait, I'd rather see this movie Taking place after Raiders sure with Marion sure and the entire short round arc happens in it like the the Attempted pickpocketing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like I just feel like their arc starts in exactly the wrong place. They are really good together. But in a movie where the romantic relationship is a disaster, you'd rather see that relationship develop as a new thing and grow over the course of a movie

rather than just have him be like, here's my guy. I do love when he, the reveal of Short Round where there's a kid driving the car. I mean, it's cold as your potatoes. Look, let's also say it is a lot like... It is a much nicer experience watching this movie now on the other side of like Kei Hikawa's like ultimate triumph comeback shit. Where I do... it didn't feel like haunted before, but there was this feeling of watching this movie for a long time and being like, and what the fuck happened to him? I mean, he's in the Goonies.

Well, he was so big for a couple of years in the eighties to watch this film in the nineties or the two thousands or the 2010s, you were a little like, Hey, I'm glad he didn't die of a drug overdose, but it's a little bit weird that this guy disappeared and now it just feels like triumphant. Oh, great. It does. It's odd. I know they considered putting him

in Dial of Destiny and James Mangold, who often has really good instincts on this stuff, was like, eh, that's like shitty legacy sequel stuff, like I don't wanna do it. But it's kind of crazy he did not come back for either legacy sequel. No, it's crazy. Like Crystal Skull, I guess he had not really re-emerged

as an adult actor yet. But like, why is he not in Dial of Destiny? No, no, I agree with you. But also, I mean, if I'm not mistaken, because, uh... Whatchamacallit. Everything Everywhere All at Once finishes filming, I think, January 2020. Right. It took a while to come out because of the pandemic.

I believe all of Prince Will Photography was finished on Dial of Destiny before everything everywhere came out. Oh, really? Okay. Okay. So, but I know they considered it. Of course. They definitely considered it before, but he was not on their radar as look how good

this guy is now. Well, they should even still consider it or they should have fell back. Don't do pre shoots like I'm like Indiana Jones in the star 69 What's another phone thing? Call waiting. Yeah, sir 69. Okay, fine. Forget it Collect yeah what Rochon Seth who plays the bank, Olivia Sort of you sort of the sort of the face villain in a way, right? Like, Olivia. Sort of the, sort of the, sort of the face villain in a way, right?

Like, you know. Great face on that guy. You took him all around? No, I am not. That's Armish, I'm Armish Purgate. Oh, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. The prime minister guy, you know, the guy at the dinner. Oh, sure.

Who's sort of the bellic equivalent. He feels bad about this movie a little bit. Because obviously this movie was widely castigated at the time for being kind of like retrograde in its presentation of India and like... This sort of evil exoticism. Right. And he's like, we really, I really think the whole point of like the banquet scene

and stuff was a joke about that. It's like they are leaning into stereotypes. Like, you know, they think Westerners only, exactly would only expect like this kind of stuff. And I think that stuff's just too subtle for that movie. George Lucas, on the other hand, is kind of like, eh, we're kind of like doing the Abbot and Costello or like thin man, like this kind of old-fashioned humor.

George Lucas like loves old-fashioned humor, and he points to the stuff he loves, and you're like, that's just abject racism. It's like, George, it's different now. I mean, that's just his defense about everything, where he's just like, what, it's fun, who cares? It's for children, fuck you. Yes, but it's also not even like a good joke.

It doesn't work. No, no. It's not like something where someone could be like, that's racist, but someone else could equally be like, but it's so funny. The scene is so endless, too. It's got like something where someone could be like, that's racist, but someone else could equally be like, but it's so funny. Like. The scene is so endless too. It's so long.

It's got 20 beats. And just the snake thing doesn't make sense. Oh, the snakes inside. Practically. No, yeah. How did they prepare this dish? But also they're like. Or is the snake pregnant?

But you're like. Did they cook the snake? This is a dish? What am I supposed to eat the live snakes that are escaping or is it nice to eat the husks of the dead snakes there. My other thing is like, you can't do this with India. A country that is famous for having like some of the best food. I know. That it doesn't make any... Look.

They should just be eating dolls. Also, the snake bit happens and like Willie's freaking out, right? Shore Round's freaking out. Indy's the guy at the table Who's like pretty calm and civil and is like you eat your monkey brains or whatever right? I'm like God watch how hard he's gonna flip out when he sees the snakes He's acting like he's above it all when he said they don't even he never clocks the fucking snakes So you might have the problem with temple doom I said it's still of to Olivia already. I don't know if you agree with me,

does this movie take place over like eight hours? It's weirdly, like, the pacing of it is very odd, where it's like we're right from this, you know, initial set piece, right? Then we're in the plane, then we crash, and then it's like, now we're in India. What's the deal in India? Well, there's this thing going on with the kids that have been taken by this cult in India, and Joe's like, on it.

And then he's like, right on it, and then that's kind of Yes, and I'm like, so this just took place over like a couple days Maybe it seems like they travel from the top of Mount Everest to India in Ten minutes. So there's almost no time for it Where it's just like there is snow on the ground and then there is not Like that is it's also most of it is not very propulsive, which is the most impressive thing about Raiders, right? It's just like how it keeps fucking moving and moving in a way that feels justified, whereas setting up the sort of like proper Rube Goldberg machine cause and effect thing.

This movie opens with your classic Indiana Jones cold open adventure sequence. And then in the part in Raiders where he has to go back home and teach and meet with Brody and get assigned the next mission, the sort of like moment to rest and reset to show the other side of his personality, which is really important, which this movie in its design fucks up, basically leaves out of the equation. I feel like him at the dinner table is them trying to get in Professor Jones mode. Right. Right. Oh, I'm going to change to a suit and I'm trying to get in Professor Jones mode. Right. Right?

Oh, I'm going to change to a suit and I'm going to talk in a very quiet voice and not do action movie stuff. But it doesn't work here. You're not doing the like what I said in our Raiders episode of like the thing I think is so good about the characterization of Indiana Jones is that his professor persona is not a persona. It's not an act. It's not a Clark Kent misdirect.

Both of these are valid sides of his personality. This movie starts with him in James Bond mode, not even in Indiana Jones Adventure. No, full James Bond tuxedo. White tuxedo, right? Escapes by the sin of his teeth, a great sequence. At the Obi-Wan Cafe or whatever? Right, jumps out the window, short round his driving,

and then it's just like, the movie's off and running now. He's off and running. He's trying to escape, he gets on the plane, he's with Willie Scott, they crash land, now they're given their new assignment. But the new assignment isn't like, you gotta keep running, people are after you. No, it's go save these children in this place.

And it is kind of a James Bond mission, like go have dinner with the villain, go get the lay of the land, uncover the evil beneath, blow everything up. This one's so much more structured like a James Bond movie than the rules they had established for what an Indiana Jones movie is and how it's different from a James Bond movie.

And then there's really no, like, sense of immediate danger, I would say, between them getting on the plane and when they're kidnapped by the thuggies, right? There's sort of this extended James Bondy, like, let me try to figure out what's going on here. And a lot of that is also just, let me fight with Willie Scott a bunch. And then you get into this extended, like, super dark set piece, which I think there's something weird about this movie doing this,

like, here's his kid's sidekick, here's the movie being more family friendly, pulling it further away from an adult world. Even the way that Willie and Indy interact with each other feels like six-year-olds with a crush on each other, like fighting on the playground versus Raiders, which gives you like a kind of adult relationship. And then it just goes into this incredibly dark place that feels like it's trying to create nightmares, which I love conceptually. But at this point in the movie, I just am like, what the fuck is going on here? I... um... I do like some of the nasty stuff,

just in terms of, like, it's effective. Yes. Like, it's kind of fun that it's gnarly. It just doesn't vibe with everything else, like you're saying, very well. I think the bit where Short Round and Indy are, like, stuck in that room and the ceiling is coming down, I think that is cool.

I think Willie's being annoying. Really annoying. But I do think that that sort of, I'm like, that is the Indiana Jones thing. He is in imminent danger, and someone has to figure it out really quickly. And he's doing the like, little fast trap kind of. Yeah, exactly. This is what I want to see.

Puzzles, traps, right. And propulsive, you know, like we gotta go, we gotta go, we gotta go. One thing leads to the next. And I think they were somewhat hampered by Harrison Ford fucked up his back. The only time he ever injured himself on set Riding an elephant and they had to do a lot of stuff with his stunt man Okay doubling Vic Armstrong sort of a famous. Yeah. Yeah his life on yeah, right And they you know Lucas says like that was a major drama

So I know it was not just like some bullshit. Yeah, I don't know if it affected the story I was gonna say I'm sure it made production more difficult. All my biggest problems with this movie are in dialogue scenes. I completely agree because... It really is just like not a great script. I'm basically fine with any and all of the set pieces. I think they work on their own sort of terms. I think it's fair to say the mine cart sequence

is the best action sequence in all of Indiana Jones. I'm not saying that's like a, you can't argue with me position. I'm saying it's a position you can take. You can take the position. I'll take the position. Sure. I'm taking it right now. It's also one of those things where like,

just an astonishing, how did they pull this off in 1984? It's incredible. The whole thing is thrilling to watch. And it's, to use y'all's word, propulsive, because every time they're like, we did it, another thing is thrilling to watch and it's to use y'all's word propulsive because every time they're like we did it Another thing is happening. That's literally like structurally How you want these movies to work is like they're on rails and then someone flips a switch and you go off in a different direction And now there's a new issue and you're upside down like that's how Indiana Jones movies should play out. Yeah movies should play out. Yeah.

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Because there's also the drawstring, the drawbridge of the... And what's happening there, Olivia? What do you mean, what's happening? We're outside. So much of this movie is inside or subterranean. And Spielberg himself has acknowledged, like, that becomes kind of a bummer.

Indiana Jones should have some vistas, like, should have a sense of being in places. And as much as some of those cavern sets are kind of cool and big... She might be beautiful. You kind of, at a certain point, are like, you know, like, can I see the sunshine a little bit? Like, I think it gets to you.

Club Obi-Wan, great set. Sure, great set. Cool to have a musical number, good opening. But you're like, can I see the sunshine a little bit? Like, I think it gets to you. Club Obi-Wan, great set. Sure, great set. We'll have a musical number, good opening. But you're like, not only is it starting in this like very James Bondy world, but we're starting the first 10 minutes of the movie, like in a room.

In a room, not yet in some exotic locale. Yes, we are in an exotic locale, but not in the same way. Right. Like Raiders of the Lost Ark, all the locations have been so cool. Yeah, and like first 10 minutes of Raiders, he's like fucking outrunning a boulder, getting on a biplane. But then like at the Lost Ark, all the locations have it so cool. Yeah, and like first 10 minutes of Raiders, he's like fucking outrunning a boulder, getting on a biplane.

But then like at the same time, we've just been complaining about this movie for an hour plus, right? And that's what people do about Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Like, right? Like that, of course there are defenders, Tarantino is always going on about how it's the best one. You know, there's all the contrarian, you know, takes that have emerged over the last 40 years. This movie is fun to watch and I watch I've watched it

Many many times. It's a totally watchable movie Harrison Ford is maybe at his sexiest in it Okay, we have to talk about because they let him take his shirt off Yes, he's really because it's like this witness like working girl like it's really him it He looks hotter in this one than he does in Raiders. Yes, and he looks fucking hot Yeah, I think there's a major step down in his performance He looks hotter in this one than he does in Raiders. Yes. And he looks fucking hot in Raiders. I think there's a major step down in his performance, and I think a lot of it is the setup of the story and the... He also probably was dealing with back pain.

I was gonna say, that also fills in a lot. He does look unbelievable. I also, I was watching this... I was watching this with my boyfriend, and... Humblebrag. Did you tell him about Sawyer Spielberg? I already forgot. He was like, oh, he looks just kind of like a normal guy.

He doesn't have... He looks jacked, but he... We talked about this in the writers' episode. Yes, he looks jacked in a way that is completely attainable. Ryan Michael Bennis was saying that he remembers as a child how much press to do there was about the regiment... Yeah. That Harrison Ford went on, you're not going to believe how big he is in this movie. And that that was the big, oh, fucking Drew Struzan painting of him

with the ripped off sleeve and the chest exposed and all the images and everything. And people were like, holy shit, like fanning themselves down. And you're like, this is what the comic relief looks like now. Right, this is Jake Johnson in the Mummy 2017. Jake Johnson is twice as big in the Mummy as Harrison Ford is in this. He looks incredible though. But he does, he looks like a real person. He looks like the best a real person can look.

He literally looks like a hot professor. If you have ever had a hot professor, he kind of looks like Harrison Ford in the 80s. He can lecture me. I also think the reason that we've kind of been shitting on this movie is because you have nothing, that you have to compare it to Raiders. You have to. And it just is such a kind of steep fall off from that movie.

But even like I'm watching these on like successive dates, right? Like I'm only living with Raiders for maximum 48 hours before I watch Temple of Doom. And I just immediately was like, what's going on with this one? Like explain to me what the deal is with this one. And you saying about watching a lot and being very watchable. I like largely agree, except I would say, Willie Scott annoys me more than most characters in the history of cinema. She's tough, she's tough.

I'm not here to truly stick up for Willie Scott. And every time I rewatch it, I'm like, am I overreacting? Am I being too hard? Do I need to fucking cool it and watch it with fresh eyes? And it does just feel like she keeps saying like, stop the movie I wanna get off. Yeah. Yeah. I it does just feel like she keeps saying, like, stop the movie I want to get off. Yeah. I also am kind of like, I think the thuggy villain thing is not totally coherent to me. It doesn't like, first of all, it's like, there's a lot of scholarly skepticism about thuggy.

If they even exist where they just sort of fave villain created by the British Empire. I'm like, why is there like a voodoo doll? I'm like, that is Haitian. Like, what are we? We're pulling from so many different places, and I get that maybe it's a commentary on whatever. I don't think so. I think it's more the George Lucas thing of like,

oh, no, these movies all had like a bunch of fantasy shit in them. I think it's all like, oh, if you are like an evil person of color in one of those movies you had, you had some weird, you can access all of it. All the people of color magic. And it's like, I think if it were more honed in, maybe I would... I also think not to like once again complain about what it does that I feel like the rules of the Indiana Jones movies, right?

But you're like, the fun of this is to me, Indiana Jones versus a different type of like shitty, like colonizer. Yeah. Right? It's like there is a central, there is a mythology, there is a history, there's objects, there is culture, but he can't be fighting with that culture. Right.

He has to be fighting with someone else, fighting over their interpretation of the culture. And this is sort of trying to do that, where it's like the small village saying, bring our stones back. But they're basically activating him like he's a superhero, being like, Indiana Jones, we contribute to your mission. There's trouble on the mountain, yes.

You just spend an afternoon with us, and now please go off and save our stones. But can I ask, did anyone ever think, I think the first time I saw it, I kind of thought that Indiana Jones, his motivation was to keep the stone. Sure, is he... It feels like it's not clear. It should be that.

It should be. Or maybe, or at least maybe that's a crisis. Because it's a prequel, it should be like, this was his earlier, like, I just want fucking treasures and sell them phase. But instead, he just wants to get the stone to bring back to the village, to like, bring the kids back. But he says some line of like, glory and something. Yeah. Fame and glory.

But again, this is the thing of like the movie, you have seen Raiders and you have an idea of this guy loves to go get things and bring them back to his museum That is what he loves to do Great, but this movie is like he actually doesn't care about that right now. And also this guy hasn't done Raiders Yeah, so you're like if you're not gonna answer to me the differences between that guy and this guy then what are we doing here? Like this movie needs Brody being like hey hey, I got an interesting message. There's a small village. They're looking for someone, you know? You just miss Brody, as do I. Where is he?

But I agree with you that Ford is playing it darker as well. And perhaps that is part of the darkness triangle of like Marsha Lucas divorce, Twilight's own death and Harrison Ford's back injury. But the whole movie feels like he's playing it in a more menacing way. And the ultimate manifestation of that being him having to play possessed Indy and like potentially put this child in harm. It feels like he's leaning into something darker

the whole time where I keep on waiting for that of like some scene where he's like, you know what it Should belong in a museum. I've learned. Yeah. Well, I almost like that these movies Don't try that hard To be right like it's more like not just Indiana has an adventure. Don't worry about it, but But why have it be a prequel? I think the prequel of it is getting in the way of things. That's why it shouldn't be a prequel and it shouldn't be the darker middle entry because

that's meaningless. I also think that if you had just told me that this, well, I guess the Marion thing kind of gets in the way. If you just tell me, don't put a year on it. Just kind of say that, or say that, I don't know Marion has like come to her senses and wants a man with a stable job or whatever. Yeah Marion left me because I'm painting the SMO's getting jewels. Marion left me and now I'm in a bad mood. It turned out she was a femme bot.

I found out in our honeymoon. That is really that's a that's that's really good writing. That's the kind of no but that's the kind of brilliant screenwriting that maybe Lucas and Silver couldn't get access to. But I do think that like the prequel of it gets in the way. Brilliant screenwriting that maybe Lucas and silver couldn't get access to Yeah, I agree with you and I and I also think that like Here's here's another issue. I have with the darker middle entry thing, right? Empire Lucas is justifying that shit so well Like here's the meeting with the father your reality falling falling out, right? Your character's being tested, them coming up against their own limitations.

None of the darkness of this movie is connected to Indiana Jones as a character. Because Indiana Jones is a character who doesn't go through serious arcs, right? He stays the same, and that's what's cool about the movie. And the only thing that can change Indiana Jones is his relationship to a character, right? People pushing him a little bit in one direction

or another, challenging him a little bit. But he's got such high status on Willie the entire movie, where he's just kind of like, you know, the thin man equation of like, oh, part of this is working in this sort of screwball back and forth. She can, you know, give it just as hard as she takes it, kind of banter shit.

Doesn't work if like the thin man is a detective and his wife who hates mysteries. Well, that's why I think that, like, the scene... And screams whenever anyone has a gun. Oh, my God, she screams so much. It's crazy. Um, but I think the scene where him and Short Round are playing poker is so good, because it's like, oh, here's someone who's getting one over on Indiana. Something we don't see that often. Sure, Brown also wants to be an Indiana Jones movie,

but has a slightly different way about it, which is the right kind of Indiana Jones pairings. But starting this movie with their relationship mid-swing and ending it on a note of, and of course we'll go on adventures forever, dot, dot, dot, doesn't really service, like, putting Indy through anything. As much as we don't want to see him grow or change significantly, there are, like, small arcs that can happen.

And the darkness is just like, they literally just descend into a dark temple. You know, like, the darker middle entry shit is only, they move into a space where darker shit is happening. They literally go underground and then fucked up things happen in front of their eyes and then they go back above ground and they're like, woo, enough of that darkness. Kind of. So it just feels kind of unearned to me versus like Batman Returns is a classic like biting

the hand darker sequel. Yeah. That I adore that feels dark in a holistic psychological way. Yeah, rather than just like, right. It's like basically everyone's the same. It's just the locale and the vibes are a little darker. I don't know. I just feel this way the same I do about,

like I said it already, about Lost World, where I'm just like, you're in the hands, you're in the safest hands. It has four of the best directing sequences you'll ever see in your life. Like, you know, Lost World, I can watch any time because I'm like, well, I know this is coming up. But I can also watch it the whole time being like,

this doesn't really make a lot of sense that this would happen. Like, you know, and like, yeah, did anyone check in on it? And the answer is kind of like, eh, they had to do a sequel. And so they did their best in a you know Whatever time frame they had and this is what they gave you and after the fact Maybe they can be like well, you know what like fucking you know Marsha Lucas though. I was pissed off It's like yeah, maybe you just made an okay sequel. It's interesting to that's flawed jumping ahead

We've recorded our Jurassic episode already even though though it's far off, because of guest availability. And there was a thing in the dossier that really jumped out to me. It was Blue from Jurassic World. We booked Blue. The Raptor. That's huge. The whole episode is just going like...

For the listener at home, David is doing the iconic arm gesture of Owen Brady, Raptor trainer. Remember me? Yeah. Oh, I was going to say more like a Johnny Bravo click click Do the monkey with me he is doing David's doing Johnny Bravo is gonna be on our color purple episode David just find a fucking three-point trash Just imagine it. Yeah, yeah

Fucking three-point trash. That was fun. Just imagine it. Yeah. Yeah a quote That has really stuck with me. I'd never really considered before Jaws spawns a bunch of sequels You're the monkey with me Spielberg. Yeah, that was a good. Oh mama Spielberg wants nothing to do with the jaws sequels, right? Yeah, he develops Et2 and is wisely like I cannot think of a reason for this. I shouldn't touch this. Right? And there's this quote about why did he do Lost World? And he was like, you know, I got so many letters from kids being like, when are you making the next Jurassic Park?

And I got this one letter from Universal being like, $20 million, carry on, carry on. But he was like, when that was asked of me of ET, I went through the thought experiment I was like, this is too precious. I don't have anything new to say. It's sacred. I don't want to touch it, right? Jaws they want to make them. I didn't want to touch them I couldn't stop them from making with that point But I had nothing new to say

Indiana Jones was different because I had made this agreement and I promised George I'd make three of them Jurassic was the first time where I was like, you know what, I actually don't feel that precious about this, so what reason is there for me to stand in the way of a sequel? Where he basically admits that he's just like, I don't know. Jurassic wasn't super personal for me. People liked it. Why don't I try it again? And I wonder what the timeline is like in which Steven Spielberg makes a third Jurassic movie Right because I like Last Crusade so much and I know a lot of people are like that's when I sort of got Kidified and silly and the tension goes out and this and that but I do think it's kind of a return to form for him And it feels in that way that you see like the arcs of Spielberg's career when he feels like he has something to prove.

It's always really interesting when he's either trying to do a thing he hasn't done before, or, like, recover from a setback. And Last Crusade definitely has the energy of him being like, I need to make another good Indiana Jones movie to, like, reset everything. Yeah, to, like, reset the dials dials, just like totally get back to baseline. And that's the third one and we ended on a good note.

I want to end it on a good note. And like in between this and Last Crusade, he does color purple. And he does... Does color purple come out the year after this? Or is it... When does he jump to the... Color purple is 85. So it's two years it's two years after the sun is after color purple Yeah, and then always and last crusade are in the same year, which is The first time he does the right two movies in one year

But it's like him doing three grown-up movies in a row Like two harder dramas and like one grown-up comedy in between two Indiana Jones entries. Yes and like one grown-up comedy in between two Indiana Jones entries. Yes. Where at that point it feels like he's going back to like, and I'm gonna do Spielberg magician wonder maker mode, dream worker, if you will. I'm sort of like sitting in a moon and kind of fishing.

Olivia raised her eyebrows. No, I mean, his whole late eighties, I think is suspect at the time. People are like, the only true hit is, I mean, Color Purple makes a lot of money. And gets a lot of Oscar nominations. And is honestly an incredibly important movie. But, you know, it's not quite, it's not what he wanted it to be.

But I get a feeling of him walking away from this being like, I can't keep doing the Spielberg shit. I gotta try some other stuff. But he doesn't, until Jurassic Park, he doesn't quite have the undeniable Spielberg shit. I gotta try some other stuff. No, I agree. But he doesn't, until Jurassic Park, he doesn't quite have the undeniable Spielberg thing he has, you know, when he's doing Raiders. No. Last Crusade was close. Hook was not there at the time. The run is Temple of Doom, Color Purple, Empire of the Sun, Last Crusade, always.

Yeah, Hook. Hook. Yes. What's up with always? Have you guys done that one yet? No, we haven't done that one yet. I haven't seen it. You've never seen it? Never seen it. I've never seen it You've never seen it never seen it Making one of his most favorite movies and it's basically him trying to do Frank Capra Yeah, and it's just like it's syrup on syrup. Like you can't you know, Audrey Hepburn's last performance It's like his real right kind of pastiche

It also suffered Dreyfus in my opinion. This is not good in it Holly Hunter, amazing in it. What's your problem with Dreyfus? Too quiet? Too calm? But Jurassic Park Schindler's List, it's not like Spielberg had become a failure, but that is people being like, oh yeah, shit, right. It's undeniable. That's an undeniable year. And yes, every child loves Hook now.

Every child by child, I mean, person in their 30s who lives in Bushwick. But I mean, at the time when Hook came out, people were like, he's a little cooked. Like, this is embarrassing. This is getting a little embarrassing. Which probably helped Jurassic. Yes, for sure. Like, this movie is hurt by coming off of E.T. Where I think to some degree, he doesn't have anything to prove.

He went from Indiana Jones to ET, and ET has a greater level of psychological depth just by design. And ET's just like so good. ET. When I was watching the documentary, they just show the clip from the end of ET where ET's like, I live in here,

and I was like about to start crying. Yeah, no. It's so perfect. ET is the one time I've been asked, and it was on my 14th watch, like, are you okay? Because I was sobbing by the person, I think my mother, not even some date I was on.

But it's like a miracle movie, and it must have been a little weird to make ET and then go like, oh, I guess I gotta make another Indiana Jones now. It must have been. That's a step backwards by design. So maybe someone should rip someone's heart out in this movie.

Because is ET the first one where he's like, no, I guess it's not the first one where he's like, it sucks that my parents got divorced. But like, it is really him putting his heart on his sleeve in like a really big way. It's the most personal, he's, well, Close Encounters is in this way. I was gonna say, Close Encounters is really him

trying that, but ET is just so sentimental. But ET's all complimentary. Right, Hook is so sentimental, not complimentary. Hook is, you know, we'll talk about Hook, but like, the shit that sucks in Hook is Robin Williams, like with his eyes shimmering, being like, I should work less hard. And I'm like, Stephen, talk to a therapist.

I want to watch a Peter Pan movie with sword fights. I don't need this shit. And in Hook, the stuff I like is Dustin Hoffman and Bob Hoskins doing a carry-on movie. I'm like, that's fun. That's silly. I just don't need Robin Williams being like, my cell phone. I'm like, fuck your cell phone.

Yeah, I think there's also, look, we'll talk about this in the Hook episode. But there's perhaps a thing where people are like, oh my god, Steven Spielberg making the Peter Pan movie. That's perfect On the nose And here's the second problem that the hook to hook if you will is what if Peter Pan did grow up and became a boring Adult and had to reconnect with being Peter Pan and I'm like huh that's a thing that Steven Spielberg can't relate to. That's the one perspective that's going to make zero sense to him.

Is Hoffman kind of cooking in that movie or was I like a kid? Hoffman has a cauldron the size of Earth. He is cooking so, he is fucking incredible in cooking. And here's my other. and I was just saying. I remember that from being a child. I remember being like, something is cool here. You're like, what is this? You're right, but Bob Hoskins is fucking Gordon Ramsay

in that movie. That's what I was about to say, and I will advance this argument again on our hookup, so I don't wanna say it now. Every Steven Spielberg movie would be better if you added Bob Hoskins as Smee just in the movie. Like if Bob Hoskins as Smee was in this movie somewhere, that'd be great. If Bob Hoskins as Smee just in the movie. Like if Bob Hoskins as Smee was in this movie somewhere, that'd be great.

Just doing as Smee was Willie Scott. Oh, well I was gonna say Bob Hoskins as Smee in the post. That'd be great. For files. You know, just that. Okay, let me just play out a scene for you, right? Pentacon, Pankas. Okay, Indiana Jones is on an elephant,

not breaking his back, right? Fortune and Glory short,, Fortune and Glory. Then other elephant pulls up, it's Bob Hoskins, it's me, hey I was an opera singer, me was back in Shanghai, I had my friends, what more I did here in the back of an elephant with you. He's hot stuff, he's hot stuff. That would rule.

That sounds good, yeah. I have a couple things to say, one, your Harry's support is really good. You know what, I think it's usually good and I couldn't get it in the Raiders episode and it's been haunting me. It's the one where I lost control of it. Well, I'll say it on this one.

It's good. Thank you. Thank you. Two, I like that their elephants are all to their size. Right. And it comes in a big one. Hoskins is a little low one. The medium one and then short runs on a small one.

And that was kind of my two things. Hoffman is cooking so hard. That scene in Hook where they're bringing the hook up to him on the pillow and all the pirates, you are like, this is pure liquid sex cinema. It's so good. Save it for our Hook episode. And then there's fucking two hours of Robin Williams being like, I don't know how to have fun.

And I'm like, yes, you do. You're Robin Williams. We got a really good guest for the Hook episode. I hope he shows up. Yeah. You sent him an email? I'll send it to him. He's busy.

He's busy. I want to send it when he's gonna look at the device. The shoe's on the other foot in terms of not sending emails. Oh, okay, yes, yes, yes. Is there anything else we wanna talk about in Indiana terms? Yeah, there's a lot more we can talk about. Oh my God.

Okay, well then let's talk about it. Yeah. What's Harrison, what does Harrison, what is Harrison Ford up to now? Does he just like fly his plane? He's on four TV shows. Do you mean right now or do you mean in 1980? Presently.

Because I know he's like sort of on his big run in the 80s. Yeah. But I mean, right now, he's doing Apple shows, and he's smoking weed. Oh, right. He's on Shrinking and isn't he on a Sheridan show? He's on a Yellowstone. I think they're doing the same season of that.

He's on 1923, and it's about to. Yep. Weed is expensive with the taxes and everything. For you. No, for him. He loves to drink weed. Oh, I need more. No, for him. He loves to go to the movies. For him. Yeah.

I need more weed. What else does he have going on in pictures? Does he have pictures coming up? Newt in motion pictures? Yeah. A little movie called Captain America, Colin Breeve. In which he rokes out. The president.

He should do, here's my pitch to Harrison Ford. Morning Glory 2. Let's get the gang back into that. Olivia? But he should be about... I was regularly maintained. Looking at his filmography last night, I was like, fuck, that movie is so good.

I agree. I talk about it all the time. I think he should have gotten nominated for that. He's so good in it. He maybe should have won for that. I don't think he should have won for it. But he is good. He has only one other movie listed, upcoming on IMDB, called The Miserable Adventures

of Burt Squire. And it has no other information connected to it. That's probably something that doesn't exist. But it doesn't seem like there's anything else that he's even attached to and development on. Yeah, The Miserable Adventures of Burt Squire is an STX project that he signed onto with Ed Helms in 2020. Me thinks that one is going to get shipwrecked. I don't think it's gonna make it.

Uh, he is a rooster in Secret Life of Pets 2. Thoughts? Thoughts? I thought he was a dog in that. Is the dog named Rooster? Maybe the dog's name is Rooster. How about the dog movie though, the two-hander that he's in? Call of the Wild. I never saw it.

I watched it, uh, when I was on a trip recently, and I just like needed to put something on. Sure. It is, um, not good. Did you cry? When I was on a trip recently and I just like needed to put something on sure it is Not good, okay. Did I cry? Yes? Yeah. Yeah It's a dog and their friends single most damning review of Mauna to We go to see it with our friend Ben David to Krabinski Yeah, who had never had the pleasure of going to see a movie with mr. Hosley before. Oh sure We're seeing in 40x. I'm priming the pump.

I'm like, Ben David, get ready to watch Ben cry. You're gonna watch Ben cry tonight. I'm an easy crier. Right, and he was like, from Moana too, everyone says it sucks. And I was like, this is the point I'm making. I guarantee you there will be one thing that will happen. It will develop within the span of five seconds.

Ben will go from normal to quickly sobbing. While being jostled. A moment of kindness towards an animal or someone saying they're proud of someone else, and it will happen, right? Yeah. Like just the faucet will turn. And I walked out, I said, Ben, how are you feeling? He went, dry as a bone. And that's 40X, there's water sprayed in his face.

And I was like, this thing really doesn't work if it couldn't even get Ben crying for three seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Give me other Temple of Doom thoughts, because I'm feeling us all be like, eh, can we just talk about other stuff? Like, I am feeling us already hitting, you know, dry ground on our Temple of Doom, like, dig. Like, that's a bad metaphor. You know what I'm trying to say.

We're all kind of like, eh. I'm scrubbing through the movie here. Hold on. You know, like, I think the rope bridge scene is really fun. I do too. I think Amrish Puri as Mola Ram, it's an incredibly one-note performance. He's one of the most famous Bollywood, like, villain actors of all time. He's got theatricality and presence. I think he looks cool. I think he has a great face.

I like when Harrison Ford is possessed and then becomes unpossessed and winks at short round as he's saving him. That's fun, because it's fucking hot. What do we think about when Willie and Indiana are like gonna hook up, but then they keep like being annoying to each other? That should be more fun.

I know. It really should. It should work. The whole like five minutes thing is fun on paper and then he gets attacked and she's like, he's not coming over. Right. That should be like a fun screwball sequence in the middle. Like it's like, it's a different kind of action sequence. It's a romantic action sequence. We're having that. And instead it feels, I mean, she's kind of, you're just kind of a little annoyed with her. Not to be cinemasins about it. Why is she wearing normal pajamas?

Interesting. She's wearing like a bathrobe and normal pajamas. When she was in like a whole... Apparel sweats. It's also weird because she's like... She's in that sort of like, extravagant dress that they give her, right? Then she changes into like her jammies. Yes. And then when they're in the temple, she's back in the nice dress.

Yeah. Do you guys like the evil little prince? No, it makes me sad. Evil little Maharaja? You too. Kind of a bummer. It makes me sad. At one point he's whipping Short Round and I don't like to see that.

Short Round's so great though. What a cutie pie. He's just so charming. This is kind of an interesting quote from Spielberg. He said, I think Temple of Doom was ahead of its time for my own sensibility and exactly right on schedule for George's. George was going through a dark period. He certainly inspired Kirsten to shoot a very dark second act

in the first Star Wars. He wanted the second Indiana Jones to be very, very dark. And I wasn't there. I'm certainly there now in my filmmaking. That makes sense. As you probably witnessed ever since Schindler's List, before that it was a bit of a struggle against common sense to go as dark as we did.

What's weird about that? He goes dark on the next movie. Yeah. And then stays there. Wait, I'm sorry. He goes dark on the next movie. Yeah. And then stays there. Wait, I'm sorry, he goes dark on which movie? The next film's Color Purple. Oh, yeah, yeah, but no. And the film after that's Empire of the Sun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I feel like what he's saying post Schindler is, you know, like this early 2000s Spielberg where he's still making rip-roaring adventures like Minority or Porter or whatever, but it's much darker, much more cynical tone and all that. But then he makes Crystal Skull, which is not like that. No. Crystal Skull, honestly, I like a lot of that movie more than some, but like can't pick a tone really. No.

And like kind of has a lot of nostalgia stuff, it is kind of about how you can't, you know, recreate old glories and all that. With Ready Player One as well, David Krumholtz favorite movie of all time. Good movie, Krumholtz agree. Yeah. My, I feel this issue with Ready Player One as well David Krumholtz favorite movie of all time good movie. Yeah, yeah My I feel this issue with ready player one as well Which it's like Spielberg doing an impression of himself being like wouldn't be fun to do one of the fun ones again

And this feels like he's in a mode where he wants to make a fun one again And he's being pushed into something darker Then he spends his next like four or five years trying to make darker, more grown-up movies about serious things. And people at the time are like, he's like a little kid. What is it? He doesn't have an adult understanding of this stuff. He's not there. And Shin-Li was the first time that I think people were like, he's processing events like an adult. He's making movies about serious subject matter with a proper sense of like weight and maturity. The movie does kind of feel like what, like, a little kid playing dress up to be like dark and spooky.

Like it doesn't, like when we talk about it being like a dark movie, it's like, it's not like Indiana Jones is like going through personal torment or anything. He's not, it's just like there's some dark and spooky shit happening underground. And like, it's not it's just like right There's some dark and spooky shit happening underground Yes, and like it's kind of scary if you're eight. Yes, and then so I I It's also like asking a small child like what's the scariest thing that could ever happen? They're like, I don't know Pushed into a

Work And there's bugs And then you get pushed into a pit of fire. And you have to work. And a girl is screaming. And there's bugs. And you cut a snake open and there's more snakes. This is my problem with the like, it's so dark. It's such a dark movie. And I'm like, scary things happen in it. I don't think it's like a dark movie textually. It's not a dark movie in the way that like Schindler's List is a dark movie.

But even like in the way that like dark popcorn sequels are that I like that are like, and this movie deals with some fucked up psychology. Yeah. And audiences weren't ready for it. I also feel like every Indiana Jones movie, we'll see about Last Crusade, but usually the tone is kind of spill over being like, look, George, this is George's thing. And later it becomes like, this is George and George's thing. And later it becomes like,

this is George and Harrison's thing. And I wanna make a good movie and I'm here, but I'm a little bit like working with them versus like all his other projects. And so I feel like when the movies don't work, he kind of is like, well, you know, that was George's idea. It's what I find so fascinating about Tintin is Tintin feels like him being burned by like,

George is giving me bad things now. So what if I treat Urge as my George? Right, what if I do a Tintin-y Indiana... And that movie weirdly feels like a for hire movie for him, but him being excited that he's starting with good material. I wish someone would make another Tintin movie. I do too. Have it be live action.

Oh, you don't want to do a... Not really. I mean, I would go for that if that's what's happening.. Oh, you don't want to do a content? Really. I mean, I would go for that if that's what's happening. Yeah. But I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. It is just weird that it's been like a casual 12 years

since Tintin. Is that right? Was it 2012? Yeah, 2011 I think. Peter Jackson's too busy sifting through, you know, 800 hours of Beatles sessions or whatever. Yeah, but he's about to find something really good. Can they look more like jelly?

It is fascinating to be like, does that guy ever make a scripted fictional film again? I don't think he wants to. No, but it's funny that it might truly never happen again. Well, we should do them. Um, on the podcast. Here's a question. Sure. What do these stones do? Uh, they're, they're, they're, they should do them. On the podcast. Here's a question. Sure.

What do these stones do? They're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're,

they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're The Ark of the Covenant, I'm like, I get it. I get what this thing is. They put the Ten Commandments in it. Like, that's crazy. The Last Crusade, it's the Holy Grail. I get it. I get what that is.

I got the same question as Ben. I'm like, what's up with these stones? They are, you know, it's a real thing from, you know, Hindu, like, mysticism and, you know, they're... I'm not an expert on, despite in the seventh grade doing a 40-page project on Hinduism that I got a very good grade on. They made you a 40 page project in seventh grade? In the history of this podcast, when people brag about how good their papers were when

they were young. They definitely never get in trouble. No, we had to do a project on religion for my religious education class in what you would think of as the seventh grade, year eight. What you would think of as the seventh grade, year eight. What you would think of as the seventh grade. What Americans would call seventh grade. But it is a, you know, they're working with real, you know, sort of mythos, like, too, you know, and then just turning it into weird Indiana Jones magic shit.

I agree with you that it's, like, probably helpful that the first two movies are dealing with, like, biblical, and a third, and a legend. Western things for the... I understand this is a very Western viewpoint for Western movies, primarily made for Westerners, but... Yeah. It's like, what kind of archaeology? It's not like archaeologists do like all of them.

Well, if you're gonna come back at me with like, well, no, it's good that Indiana Jones like explored like, Hinduism and stuff, it's like, no, it's not, because this movie is like very simplistic kind of racist, and like, everyone was kind of. He's like, no, it's not, because this movie's, like, very simplistic and kind of racist, and, like, everyone was kind of mad about that. This village is basically like, this stone is sacred to us, it, like, keeps us balanced, it was stolen by the thuggies,

they're doing something bad with it, can you go find it, right? And then he goes and finds it and brings it back, and he's like, they were indeed doing real bad shit with it, here are all the stones. I do like when the kids all come running back and like, the village is now very verdant and beautiful and sunny and like...

But you do feel like you'd rather the story be that like, Brody says, and I know I'm just harping for my man Brody here. You're like, Dan home, Dan home. But that Brody's like, I got a great lead on these stones. And he goes to find the stones and he wants them to be in a museum and then this village is like, these stones mean something to us.

And he has the growth of being like, the stones should stay here. It feels a little weird to have it be like, kind of Indiana Jones for hire. Can you do this mission for us? But also the bad things that are happening are more about the thuggies being shitty than the power of the stones.

Well, cause here's the thing too with the kids. We've mentioned the child slaves who are mining for the other two missing stones. Why kids? I mean, get adults to do it. You're just saying they don't do as good a job? It makes no sense. Yeah, they're bad people. And that's what you're showing.

And they're bad businessmen. And they're bad businessmen. Their employee hiring practices are terrible. They should try and eat. It makes no sense. Yeah, they're bad people. And that's what you're showing. And they're bad businessmen. And they're bad businessmen. Their employee hiring practices are terrible. They should try and eat. It's just, yeah, it doesn't make sense to me, but again, it's just a silly adventure.

I understand that, but it's just fucked up. But I agree with you, and I think this is another thing that's dumb about this movie being a quiet prequel, is that it does feel like there's something profound in Raiders to the arc of Indy being like, supernatural shit isn't real. What are you talking about? Sure. Right? And then he sees the face of God. Right. And he's a little changed and the movie ends. And this movie is like, oh, by the way, like two years early, Indiana

Jones got possessed by a stone. That is such a good point. But it like wasn't in the Bible so he didn't take it seriously. Right? Like his whole posture in Raiders is like, by the way, these are objects. They hold no power. I just like collecting things.

I mean, it was possessed by blood. I get it, but yeah. That came out of a dead man's head. With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. I have a question sort of just Spielberg related.

Does he have anything in the hopper right now great question making this like Sci-fi movie it's called the dish. Yeah, okay, Josh O'Connor Emily Blunt Wyatt Russell it's like a fucking it's a beautiful cast. It's a great cast. It's a David It's an event movie. It's an event. It will be released in IMAX. It is in some way relating to UFOs, extraterrestrial life. He's going back there. It's an original film. I'm all based on no pre-existing material, but it is Interesting that he has slowed way the fuck down He was always a one or two a year guy and when he was posting on one movie He was prepping the next you You always knew, like, here are the five movies he has in development, and which one will he pick?

And then in the post-Fableman's era, it's always been like, oh, Bradley Cooper talking about doing Bullet? Yeah. But who knows what's gonna happen? And then this movie kind of came up out of nowhere. Burned by the weird circumstances for like West Side Story and the Fableman's both kind of being two

movies that I think are incredible, but for some reason, amazing movies. And I do feel like he's like, I give you these jewels and you're kind of like, I imagine like perfunctory passive aggressive Oscar nominations. It was like best director. Right. It's enclosed. Because I imagine if you're if you're Steven Spielberg and you make the Fablemans, you're like, this is my entire...

And opening my chest for you people. I am like Temple of Doom opening my heart and handing it to you. Broken cactus! And then people are like, what is this bullshit about the magic of the movies? It's like, I would be a little pissed off. It was kind of his Steve Jobs, Danny Boyle episode,

and people are like, he really wants to go back and try another thing? That's kind of a good rep... That is the reason I think people were like, is this his last movie? He's got nothing in development. It feels like the ultimate statement. It's just an interesting place for him to be. Yeah. I mean, he lost to Jane Campion and the Daniels.

I don't think he's like, you know, steamed that he didn't get another Oscar. I don't even think it's about the Oscars. I think just kind of like... It was the general reception. It's just like, oh, they just made like $30 million. Like, favorite ones was just like on VOD after a month. The Post made like 60 domestic

and Bridge of Spies made like 70 or 80 domestic. Like, it's a real snapshot of how much adult film-going culture changed over the pandemic. Hopefully it's getting real snapshot of how much adult film-going culture changed over the pandemic. It's like shifting. Hopefully it's getting a little bit back. But it did just feel like... Post made 81. Insane. And Bridgespies made 70.

Bridgespies made $1 billion, in my heart. Yeah, in my household, that movie has gone triple platinum. He's got a cold. What else do you want to say about Temple of Doom, before I make my point about its release and commercial success? As I move us towards the box office. The thing I wanted to finish this point was just that

it felt like even when Spielberg would have with some movies that did not totally connect with the public or the Oscars or whatever, there was like an undeniable event to a new Steven Spielberg film. And as you said, children just know, that's the name of the person who makes movies and even if I'm not Seeing that one. I understand. It's a thing. It does feel like the post 2020 movies. There's just a sense of like what is that?

In a way that there's no even importance placed on like even like Spielberg has a new film No, but that's Nolan Nolan just has that it is like even like I feel like killers of the flower moon had more of a thing of like, there's a Martin Scorsese movie out and it has Leonardo DiCaprio in it. I had this argument with Michael Tabersky, friend of the podcast, great filmmaker, turned me on coming out sometime in 2025. But we were like, who are the four most important filmmakers in that sense? Right.

In that sort of like cultural sense? And the argument they were posing to me was, it was Michael and our friend Jason Ankenstein. And they were like, we want to see if you're going to leave Spielberg off the list as well. And I was like, I think he's just not there anymore. I think we're all angry that it feels so who is it? I was like, I think it's kind of undeniably Nolan Scorsese Gerwig Peel. Yeah that I was gonna say Gerwig and Peel. I think Peel is no question and Gerwig

It's like yeah, those Chronicles of Narnia Gerwig and Peel it's like they could lose it. Well, I mean, like, all the guests. That's the only problem I have with Gerwig. Look, like, Gerwig and Peele, it's like, they could lose it. Well, it's more, it's not that they could lose it. It's like, just Jordan Peele makes original movies that are a Jordan Peele movie. Yeah. Gerwig, it's like, she made a Barbie movie, now she's making a Narnia movie.

I do think people are very interested in what she does, but there's a little less of that. Yes. And you'd almost wish there was more. But I also think you can make a joke in a room full of 100 hundred people about a Greta Gerwig movie or a Jordan Peele movie and it immediately makes something, it makes sense in their mind.

Scorsese still has that. That's the name you use for a serious movie. And even if something like Killers of the Flower Moon does not connect on the level everyone hoped, that would show much more respect than Fable Men's or West Side Story. And it felt like the public engaged with that movie way more. It made... Yeah, it also to be, and it felt like the public engaged with that movie way more. It made them... Yeah, it also to be... And it had Leonardo DiCaprio in it.

No offense to him, Gabriel LeBel or Ansel Elgort. Where it's like, it was Marty and Leo. It was this big American epic. Like if Spielberg makes another Tom Cruise movie, if they reteam again, it'd be fun. And who knows if that would send the shockwaves. But it is interesting that I'm like, I would argue there's a certain, like, there's more around the idea of a new Denis Villeneuve movie than there is maybe around Spielberg. I think Denis getting close. He's got to sort of finish his dunes and then he'll be there.

I think Scorsese is the only elder statesman who's like, there still. But will he make another movie? Probably. Will it be a big movie? Maybe not. Like maybe it'll be something smaller. He's certainly talking in like a in wind down mode. Did you guys know that um Francis Ford Coppola wants to is making a musical next year? He's making uh he's adapting uh funny very funny. Thank you. Uh he's adapting glimpses of the moon or whatever. I mean, he's whatever.

Like, is there, is there a point, and I enjoyed Megalopolis a lot and I'm really happy, you know, like that I got to see that. But you lop it off. It's like the 30 rock where they, where they tell Tracy he's going to the moon, like Francis McCullough, just honestly, I'm being like, don't do this. So it's like, yeah, we're going to fill this and everything. Second Tracy reference in one episode. He's fucking rocks, is there anything else you want to say about? Temple of doom

Just throwing this challenge at you guys because I think alright, I'm gonna make my oh sorry go ahead the movie I was thinking about a bit when I watched this movie was a shared favorite of yours and mine, which is Tenet because that is a movie where I think even even if you're like This plot makes no sense to me and I hate it, which I disagree with obviously, but The set pieces are awesome and so the set pieces are mostly a guy being like I want to do something really fucking cool Yes, and you're gonna watch that and I actually kind of whatever else is going on doesn't matter like in this one It's the minecart and it's like that is cool as shit and tenet

It's kind of like all of it but like look at them on this cool rich person but tenet is the number one where you're just like even if Don't if you can do whatever you want with tenet But if you're just like I'm just gonna love the vibes and not think about anything, you can have an amazing time with Tenet. But don't you think Tenet would have been received differently if it were an Inception sequel? Like he could have very easily made it Inception 2,

this time it's time, or fucking whatever, you know? Like. This time it's backwards. There was, even when the first Tenet trailer came out and it was like, it's time for a new protagonist And it was a mystery box. There were some people being like is this weird sideways inception universe? It has a similar vibe. I think tenet would have been judged more harshly if it was like oh So it's like it's inception without the emotional arc. It doesn't have the missing kids

It's a pretty great emotional arc. It's about two boys in a different way I'm just thinking about tenant right now. I texted this to Sims today and he didn't respond because I think missing kids. That's a pretty great emotional arc. It's about two boys. In a different way. Tenet's the best. I'm just thinking about Tenet right now. I texted this to Sims today and he didn't respond because I think... I texted him one of our group texts. This was a post in the blank check subreddit. A subreddit by the way. I never read it.

Oh, the Tenet is the highest grossing Hollywood original... Live action. But this is... What does that mean? Exactly. This shit starts to get annoying for me because the number one thing that I've already said this Use like Oppenheimer counts as original that you people like oh, Hollywood doesn't make any original And I'm like making a movie about a guy who existed

Making a movie based on like you can't be like oh well it had the often higher nonfiction Biography based on a book that James Woods recommended. That's not nothing. That's such a good fun fact about Oppenheimer. It's actually the best. You know what? It's the reason I love the movie. It's my favorite part.

No, I sent David this thing like a couple of weeks ago that was referencing that Elemental is the highest grossing original film of the post pandemic era. And David pushed back on that. I'm like, really, that's Oppenheimer. But then, right, but then the thing you sent as well, where it's like all the caveats of Hollywood live action,

where I'm like, right, because we're not talking about Chinese movies, of which there are many, that have made way more money than any of these Hollywood movies. By the way, what's the other thing we're not talking about? What? Everything Ever All At Once, which outgrossed Tenet.

Did it? Maybe not. Maybe not? Maybe 80 million domestic. But not globally. But this quote was domestic, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, I don't know. I can't remember. Let me compare the two while you're talking. But that's no fair, because Tenet came out

when theaters were closed. Didn't Tenet come out in October of 2020? That was the point. The point was like, oh, it's a little bleak that Tenet, in the most compromised, stressed, barely reopened theatrical landscape, still has hit a number that nothing else has hit. Why am I bringing this up in this episode? I think that's going by its global performance. It's going by worldwide. Okay, there's something a little tempting about Dish where I'm like

next year there's a Steven Spielberg UFO. Is it next year or 26? I think Dish might be 26. But next year we've got a new Coogler movie. We've got Jordan Peele coming. I think it's kind of like the strike backlog is coming out. And a little bit of delayed Oppenheimer. Do people actually want to see new shit? And a little bit of Kraven the Hunter is really the end of Hollywood being like, can we sell you any old shit if it's a comic book thing?

It feels like the end of a lot of old shit if it's a comic book thing? Yeah. And it makes defense it was shot in 1932. Exactly. But like where it's like next year we have Superman and Fantastic Four. It's not like we don't have comic book movies, but it feels a little slower and a little bit more like,

do you like Superman? Well, you're forgetting we have something else. I know there's Rolk. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without the mustache. No, but there's something too like. Yeah. Red Hulk. Without the mustache. No, but there's something too like, the two big superhero movies next year are the original DC character and the original Marvel character.

It's like the most totemic, early, nostalgic. Not even nostalgic. And both of those feel like projects where it's like if they flop, maybe it's time to start packing things up. I also think that in the last year there was Tenet IMAX re-release, which I went to and had an incredible time at. My boyfriend said you're the only person who brought a boy to this instead of the other way around. Your boyfriend and I, we vibe on like mastering. There's a lot of shared taste.

I really thought you were about to say we bond on masturbating. We do bond on masturbating. I thought that's what you were gonna say and I bond on masturbating. We do bond on masturbating. Maybe we do. I'm not even joking. I thought that's what you were going to say and I was shocked it was going in that direction. Olivia, can you please pass along one million comedy points to your boyfriend? Tenet re-release and IMAX made a decent amount of money. Like five million dollars? Interstellar is crushing it.

Oh, the Interstellar one was five million. I'm just saying that people have, maybe it's just for Nolan, but people like seeing these big, bold, original, great-looking movies on a big-ass screen. Here's something that just happened. Fucking Coraline, which has been re-released every year, this year made like $30 million. It made a lot of money. I mean, that's of course got, you know, kid factor. But yes, absolutely.

But they've been re-releasing it every year and every year making the release wider and longer and it keeps making more money. I think it's like people like when movies are cool and good. Can you imagine? This is also what the fucking film scene was like in the 70s and the 80s where it was like there was a balance of the classics coming back to theaters and people would go back to theaters to see them again.

Star Wars was like re-released every year for a long time, you know? It was like a healthy part of distribution. On this, Temple of Doom, as I bring us to the box office game. This movie came out in 1984 and was a hit. It got, I would say mixed reviews, but it was the highest first weekend of 1984, opening weekend of 1984, and it made $180 million, so it was the highest first weekend of 1984, you know, opening weekend of 1984, and it made $180 million, so it was the third highest grocer at the US box office.

Behind what? Okay, 1984. 1984. Do, do, do, do, do. It's not... It's not Rocky IV, is it? No, it's two movies we've covered on this show. It's two movies we've covered on this show.

One main and one Patreon. One main and one Patreon. The top two films of the year we've covered on this show. One main and one Patreon. One main and one Patreon, the top two films of the year. They're movies you love. One main and one Patreon, they're movies that I love. Well, this is taking too long. We're doing good on time. No, we gotta go. We're doing good on time.

David, give me a look and acknowledge that we're doing pretty good on time. Just because I'm fucking, oh, it's just, brrrr. Huh? That's me trying to land the plane really fast. Okay, is the number one film the main feat or the Patreon? Oh, God.

The Patreon, I think. It's not Star Trek. No. It's the Patreon. Come on, you love this movie. It's a huge Griffin movie. Start of a franchise that continues to this day. It's not The Terminator.

No. It's not... Had a great release this year. Slightly sarcastic. There was a bad one this year. I thought it was okay. You thought it was okay. A lot of people hated it.

Yeah. How did I feel about it? You thought it was okay. I thought it was okay. You thought it was better than the prior one, which we both hated. Right. It's not Alien. No, come on.

Come on. Griffin. Griffin. Griffin. It's not not Alien. No, come on. Come on, Griffin, Griffin, Griffin. It's not Toy Story. No, what's the other one? What's the other one? Yeah. It's not Robocop. No.

It's only one of those. For kids. For kids. And grownups. For kids and grownups. You gotta give me something here. He's looking at the toys. Both of these stars, two of your favorite comedies.

Oh, it's a Ghostbusters movie. It's the movie Ghostbusters. It's 1984, it's the movie Ghostbusters. And what's the other one? And then is Gremlins number two? No, come on. The other one, which we've covered on main feed, is not a franchise.

Yes it is, start of a franchise. They made another one this year. They made a fucking legacy equal to it this year. Long dormant. It's another huge Griffin movie, huge Griffin star star and did I not like the new one? We thought it was okay It was on fucking Netflix. What are you supposed to do? Oh, well, you know what? I liked it quite a bit I did too. I think it's the second best. Yeah. Yeah sure Yeah, but I don't like two or three very much. You don't like two. I like two. Two looks good. It is a Beverly Hills comic. So here's the thing.

It feels a little bit to me like, those are a new kind of movie now. The 80s are here. Our movies are gonna be a little snarkier. They're gonna be comic. Let's say this. They're gonna be action packed. Those movies are also edgier than Temple of Doom.

Right, they are gonna be edgy. Temple of Doom is quote unquote dark. Ghost fellatio. Yeah. Crossed eyes. Bananas in tailpipes. The darkest shit of all the action movies. Right, they are going to be edgy. Temple of Doom is quote unquote dark. Ghost fellatio. Bananas in tailpipes. The darkest shit in the world. Those are movies with like, they're a little grown up. And like Temple of Doom is a little bit like

Indiana Jones! And it's like Kate Castro going, ah! And everyone's like, eh, Anne Murphy and Bill Murray are cooler than this. The thing that it's referencing is for old people. Yeah. But also a weird case of it being like like too scary for children and too babyish for grownups at the same time. Right.

Like you're like adding a kid and... It's the Red One problem. It's the Red One problem. And that movie had no other problems. Olivia, have you seen Red One? No, but I've, you know, I've consumed some content about it. I don't say this lightly, it's one of the worst things to ever happen in this country. I did enjoy, again, shout out to the big picture, the episode where Sean was like,

who is this for? What is the point? I do think it's a true who. I haven't seen it yet, but it strikes me as real. Who is this for? It's the ultimate, it's the most extreme example of this thing where you're like, half of the movie is designed to be boring, off-putting, or scary to children. And the other half of it is such pure baby shit that no grown-up I know it's like the rock is like what if I could do a Christmas movie But like for kids, but then I could advertise on like Super Bowl Sunday, right?

And it's just like that's for nobody It's the most algorithmic like let's put all the pieces people like in movies and all those pieces are fighting each other with knives This movie came out Memorial Day weekend 1984. Okay with knives. This movie came out Memorial Day weekend, 1984. Big opening weekend, but a little, JJ points out a little fudgy because it had like a five day, you know, whatever. Back in the day that was frowned upon. Right, we were doing the year, we weren't even doing the weekend.

This is the weekend. This is the weekend. Number one at the box office though, Indiana Jones at the Temple of Doom. And what was the number? 33. 33, okay. At the time, you know, it's a lot of money. I'm excited to do 89.

It's more than a budget. Last Crusade, because that's a weekend where records keep getting broken. Fair enough. Where it's Last Crusade, Batman, and Ghostbusters 2, I think, all break the records that summer. That's a sign of how things have changed. Because when you look at this one,

you're seeing Indiana Jones and the Temple do number one. Number two, it's a sports movie, but it's a sports movie, but it's a movie for grownups. It's a movie I love. Based on a true... Based on a true novel. It's based on a true novel.

It's based on a novel, but not based on a real athlete. It's not The Natural, is it? It is The Natural. It is The Natural. Barry Levinson's The Natural, a movie I adore. Have you ever seen The Natural? I've never seen The Natural. Olivia?

I love baseball movies. The Crack of the Bat. Yeah. Has never. I did that baseball movie. Yes. For Love of the Game with you guys. Yes, that's a movie about a magical bat.

Yeah. A movie I think rocks. A lot of people don't like it because it takes a movie, a book with a downbeat ending and flips it. I think that's the right move. I'm just checking my notes here. The name for those people is Losers? We'll maybe cover Levinson one day.

You were so rude to him last year in March Madness. Was I? Yeah. That's a long one. He's not going to win. We did our preview and you were like, vote for Barry Levinson if you like dumb shit and you're a fucking idiot. You guys have to do Soderbergh before you do Levinson if you're going to do a long one.

That's a long one. Or Clint. They split it up, you know? Uh, number three at the box office. This is the problem. We did the split up and it took us seven years to get back around to the first half of Spielberg. I think it's nice that you're kind of, like, looping back after a long time. That's the thing.

Maybe the split's kind of nice. Hey, and playing check ten, a decade of dreams. I think with Clint, it's the problem is you have to do, like, four. Oh, Clint, Clint would be too much, I think. Oh, but it'd be so fun. There's just some point when we're, like, 40s where we're just like this year is Clint Yeah, no further questions. We're just the whole year is him. If you don't like it go eat some cheese. I don't care Can I say something I've been a year back on saying this out loud, but I feel like I need to say it now

What our buddy Connor Aleph made a very profound statement to me recently. Okay But I was thinking the other day, I don't know which will end first. Blank Check or The Tonight Show? Just The Tonight Show broadly as a concept. As an institution, he was like, that might go firmly off the air before Blank Check. That was his point. And The Tonight Show, there is the question of like, when they're finally like, all right, enough with you, Fallon, are they just kind of like, should we stop?

Like, do they maybe not out of embarrassment of being like, Fallon can't be the guy who brought it to an end? But then it's like, who would even... I think the bigger question too is like, do the other shows end before Fallon would start down? Yeah, and it starts to fold in to just like, yeah, there's really just one late night show at this point. I think their dream would be we just outlast

and we become the one stop shopping and there's an ecosystem that can support one televised. You need your guests, right. You need your, yeah, I don't know. Every brand does TikTok tonight. Wait a second. Wait a second. There's an idea. Hosted by Ben Hosley. No. I don't know anything about social media.

That's cool. That's actually awesome. That's what makes you cool. Number, yeah, because Stephen Colbert knows so much about stuff like, you know, like his Fallon. Did you see Fallon at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day just fucking out to lunch? You're just like, it's another, it's sort of like the same thing with the network shows where you're like, well, there's just some show called Pussy Eater and it's like CPS

830. And you're like, is anyone minding the store? balance just kind of out close No, and then a year later there's like young pussy eater there's like young pussy eater. Right, exactly, pussy eater, pussy eater. Like her in college. But you're just like, like in a way,

the Tonight Show ended years ago, right? It's like nobody fucking watches that anymore. And I know that's not true. I know people do watch it and it has YouTube clips and all that, you know. Well, the Tonight Show is just like, when you have the other guys who are doing it so much better than Fallon is, it's like,

why would you watch the Tonight Show? Yeah, let's not talk. I mean, when you have the other guys who are doing it so much better than Valen is It's like why would you want to do a Tonight Show? I mean when you have Seth who is great, but like Seth like you know I almost just don't want him to have to deal with a Tonight Show It's better that he just like has his show or he does his thing And also like once a month Seth Meyers is like so new thing our show no longer has chairs My clothespudget is gone, so I'll just be pixelated from now. Number three at the box office that year, network TV is just weird. We're watching something die and like we understand why it's dying. It was weird where I was like right because we don't have like a fucking operating

budget like the Tonight Show where at some point it becomes I mean, I think that's also just like I feel like every week a clip from like Conan's podcast goes viral Yeah, and it's like well, this is all you really need If you're as talented as Conan you don't need the whole thing Years of his show on television. He was still doing good shit Yeah, rarely caught fire, but I would have great days and we talked about this we were just talking about this on the Doughboyz thread like of just being like I'm gonna watch every Clueless Gamer and have a great time I'm gonna watch every Jordan Schlansky bit and have a great time. Harrison Ford smashing the Millennium Falcon in front of Jordan that's so funny.

One of the funniest things of all time. The funniest shit in the world. Yes. If anyone has watched it go watch it. You know what's the funniest choice about that? Are you familiar with that segment? Yes, I'm upset. We went through like a big phase in my house of watching all the Jordan Slansky. You got to do a yearly Slansky watch. Did you watch the podcast? Did you listen

to the podcast where it's just him and Gordon? I haven't yet. I've been saving it. It's one of those things where you're immediately like, this isn't a bit. They're really just busy. Have you seen the segment? No, I have not. They do the thing where, like, especially when Harrison Ford came out, because Slansky's such a big Star Wars and Indiana Jones fan, would come out and, like, grill Harrison Ford on some question about the makeup of the whip. Sure.

And being like, in the second film, the whip was like this, and in the third film, it was like this. So which, and then Harrison Ford would just look at the camera and go, who gives a shit? Right. Or something like that. Or you fucking nerd. And you fucked the nerve. And then they'd stamp a nerd thing on Slansky's forehead

and it was great. So when Forso Aikens came out, he came in, he was like, we have someone on staff here, he loves you, he wants to show you something. He brings out the deluxe, most ultimate Lego Millennium Falcon and was like, this cost $800, it took me nine months to construct, it's like five million pieces. And I was wondering if you'd sign it. And he's like, this cost $800. It took me nine months to construct. It's like five

million pieces. And I was wondering if you'd sign it. And he's like, absolutely. And he takes it in his lap and you like know where it's going. But Harrison Ford makes the choice rather than to just drop it from his seated position on the floor. He flips it over. He's like looking at it and then he goes, it's so funny. He's like looking at it and then he goes, It's so fucking funny. And Schlansky is just one of those guys where you're like, I understand he's quote unquote playing it straight, but it just seems so- It hurts him.

Yes, it really hurt him. Anyway, number three in the box office is a dancing movie. Is it Lombada? Nope. Is it the other one? What's the other one? Is it one of the Breaking Nope. No. Is it the other one? What's the other one? Is it one of the Breaking? It is.

Breaking 2? Nope. Oh, it's just Breaking. It's just Breaking. Just Breaking. The Guaranteur for Breaking 2. Yeah. Electric Break.

Starring, uh, Shabadoo. Of course. And Boogaloo. I'm not joking. These are the names of the dancers. Probably their best films together. I see, of course. I have never seen Breaking.

I feel like now for our generation that didn't grow up watching movies in the 80s, it's only famous for the sequels having a hilarious title. Wait, it stars Boogaloo? So he's the one that gets electric in the second one? I assume in the second movie he gets plugged in to a wall. That's incredible. At the Newport Folk Festival.

Traitor! You're supposed to do analog dancing! Oh, God. Have you seen Complete Unknown yet? Not yet. I'm excited to. Oh, it fucks so hard. It's so good. You should watch it next to Jordan Hoffman. That's like 40x Complete Unknown. Just him being like, that's Dave Van Ronk!

And I'm like, yeah, I know Jordan. Number four at the box office, and this is interesting, Griffin, is an Indiana Jones type movie that we've covered on this podcast. Is it Romancing the Stone? Wow. I was thinking about that the whole time I was watching this too.

And I imagine a lot of people are walking out of Temple Doom being like, you know what, I had more fun like three weeks ago with Romancing the Stone. Kathleen Turner doing a much better version of a Willie Scott type thing. Yeah, that's crazy they were out the same time. Isn't that crazy? That's crazy.

And of course, Danny DeVito literally in it after supposed to be in Raiders. Yeah, that kind of blew my mind. Number five at the box office is an iconic teen film with, yeah, you know, that's really good. Is it a Hughes? Is it the Breakfast Club? No, and it has one hugely problematic element that that's really good. Is it a Hughes? It's a Hughes. Is it the Breakfast Club? No, and it has one hugely problematic element that doesn't really work.

16 Candles? This is, yeah, the first big one. And it has kind of a doofy guy, you know, the guy's doofy. But I like the doofy guy. He's all right. I also like that he just like never acted again. Yeah, he's just like, what? He's very hot, Brian.

Pretty hot. But I love 16 Candles, because Molly Ringwald's so good in. Yeah, like the family stuff is good It's a good movie. See, I'm a real stick in the mud about the idea of doing shoes. Oh, I just be pushing Yeah, and you'd push back you push back. It's not that many though that he only what is it? Let's see problem is um that I fucking hate

Hey Um, that I fucking hate Ferris Bueller. You hate Ferris Bueller? He's such a piece of shit. I mean, I love the movie about his sister that exists in my mind. Breakfast Club, Weird Science, Ferris Bueller. Wait, wait. It's 16 Candles, Breakfast Club. Yeah, Weird Science, Ferris Bueller, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. Great movie.

She's having a baby. Yeah. Curly Sue? Uncle Buck. Or Uncle Buck, Curly Sue. And then Curly Sue. Uncle Buck is one of my favorite movies. And my roommate Molly would have to be on the Uncle Buck episode. My former roommate. I mean, she doesn't live with me anymore. I got married, she got married.

I was gonna say, weird way to refer to your wife. Yeah, Ben would go off on the Uncle Buck episode. Oh my God. That's a funny... That's just two months. That's just two months. Fine, let two months. That's just two months. My God. Fine, let's do it, I don't know. We have to talk about Chicago a lot.

Fran will be on that. We're doing it. Fran will have to be on one, Big Chicago. And Shannon will have to be on one. You're 10, decade of dreams. Shannon is in Michael Shannon? Yeah, Big Chicago. Number six is the original Police Academy. Okay.

Number one. Number seven, the Drew Barrymore. Yeah one number seven the day anymore. Yeah Go tell him Griffin. Yeah, I just I couldn't stand by idly Me saying the word police people think these policemen know how to walk without slipping Without any high drinks and that movie proves otherwise and can they make sound effects with their mouth? I've always wondered is there a cop who can make sound effects with his mouth? They only speak in full words. What if Eric Adams was like great news? I'm reforming the NYPD. I got Michael Winslow He's gonna

Zoos everything up. I'd maybe vote for him. Eric Adams might have been out of office by the time this episode comes out Yeah, probably not. He might get a pardon Oh god 25 is gonna suck suck so fucking hard. Decade of dreams! Yay! Number seven of the box office is Firestarter, which, you know, I've never seen.

I've never seen it either. Well, maybe we should watch it. Yeah. You want to light up? Spark up? We could do a King's Things series. We could do some camera-times. Is that the one they made with Zac Efron?

They sure did. Yeah, that was a real like... Even Peacock doesn't want you to see that one. And John Carpenter did the score. I think you're right. With his son. Mark Lester movie. Number eight is Splash, a movie I've seen so many times as a kid.

I was just watching, I don't know what drove me there, but on YouTube, the side-by-side comparison of the Splash theatrical versus the Disney plus hair butt. Do you remember the hair butt cut? One of the funniest things that's ever happened. It's incredible. It's so funny. It's so bad.

Do you know about this, Ben? Yeah, they... Let them see the butt. We've definitely talked about the hair butt. All right, I'll... Do you know about the new scandal? Wait, what's the new scandal? Wait, what's the new scandal?

Shout Factory put Riddick out on 4K for the first time. I saw that, yeah. Here's Darryl Hannah's hair butt. Whoa, wait, that's actually a saint. That's so bad. And it's in motion, it's worse. It's surprising. Because it was done very hastily.

They just added an extra six inches of hair that looks like it was glued onto her butt cheeks and doesn't move properly. Riddick, a movie about a man whose actions I do not holistically endorse. No, he's a little problematic. Could be a little bit of a cat, this guy. Sure.

There's a moment at the end of the film in which he squeezes Katie Sadoff's rear end, and this 4K comes out and people are now up in arms. They've removed that? On the coolest, most chill physical media subreddit. I have taken out my old copy, my universal disc, I've compared both the theatrical and the unrated. And these are very gender balanced subreddits too, right? Where it's like 50-50. There is a premature fade out. Shout Factory must release the butt cut and explain what

happened. And it's now this thing where half the people are getting really angry about like film censorship and they need to be explicit in these things and preservation is important. And the other half of the people are like, it's really funny that you noticed this. It's funny that you noticed this and that you took the time to compare four versions of the movie and are getting up in arms about Riddick squeezing a butt one time. Number nine at the box office, Footloose. Oh, sure. Two dancing movies in the top 10. It was hot. And number 10, Grey Stroke,

The Legend of Tarzan and the Apes. Which is the one with Christopher Lambert, right? We could do a little Tarzan series. That might get repetitive, right? Think of all the yelling bits we do. Which got a Oscar nom for, well for, Ralph Richardson, right? It got like an old legend Oscar.

But it got a makeup nom. The gorilla works pretty good in that film. You're right, Rick Baker. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. I know some of these things. You certainly know about Rick Baker, but he lost to Amadeus, so fuck you, Baker.

Oh sure. Do you think he was like Sally Erie in the stands? Yeah. Well, yeah, he also sat in the stands wearing old age makeup, Rick Baker. I can do better. Give me the rundown of the Temple of Doom Oscar nominations. It did get a visual effects, I think. I think it got only two.

I'll double check that it got a best score nomination. Okay. The score is phenomenal. I'll say this, for got a best score nomination. Okay, the score is fantastic So I'll say this for how much I'm like sitting there and the existence of Willie Scott is irking me at every moment Close my eyes. I listen that score. I'm fucking I'm sure you guys talked about it on readers, but done done done done is like it's like wow, you're a genius Yeah, it's like the most brilliant thing ever and it's not like that complex No, it is just like oh, that, I can't believe no one thought of that before.

But then like, Shore Round's theme in this is like, so lush and beautiful and complicated. That's the magic of Williams, right, as you realize. Like, oh yeah, he actually just churned out like six iconic, brilliant things. We had this thing watching Jaws where it's like, oh right, the brilliance of just being two notes. And then you listen to Jaws and you're like,

this movie is like the most beautiful, sweeping orca theme. He's incredible with the theme. Yeah, and he'll come up with like nine bangers in one score. It lost best score to A Passage to India, Maurice Scharr. I don't actually know that score, I assume. It's very big and David Leany. Randy Newman nominated for the natural there.

Kind of insane, he does not win. That is one of the most iconic pieces of music in movie history. He was one of the most iconic pieces of music in movie history. He was one of the most losing... I know, I know. But it's like, why did he lose here? No, I agree. Da-da! Da-da-da-da! Yeah.

Da-da! You want me to keep going? Yeah, please. Da-da-da! Yeah. Da-da! Da-da-da-da! He also fucking lost her Toy Story. Well, sure. Don't well-sher me!

And it won visual effects over Ghostbusters in 2010. Can I accept your porn idea? Yeah. I thought you just said, can I pitch a porn idea? Alright, so there's the guy. Indiana Jones in the temple of poon. Fuck! Indiana Bones?

Indiana Bones in the temple of poon. That's how you make the big bucks in this industry. In her panty bones? Alright, now we've gone too far. In the Temple of Poon? It's time to break for lunch. A theme restaurant. Okay. About the career of John Williams.

Go on. It by stomach is rumbling! It showcases all of his different themes. Uh-huh, and this translates all of his different themes. And this translates to food, how? Yeah. Hamburger, french fries. This is just one of those classic Ben ideas where you're like, it doesn't make a lick of sense.

You could do it. But I'm in. Griffin is on the floor. I just wanna say that for the listener. How would you write that out, Beth? I don't know. For like, the waiter tells you. This poor waiter. Every time, like, hey, can I have a hamburger? And he's like, no, it's

... It's like when there's something like, when there's something crazy on the menu and you have to be like, can I get the like, slap your mama tongue twister, whatever, but it would instead be like, can I get the hamburger fries? How do you want that cooked? Medium rare. I do not have the hubris to think that I can predict where Ben is ever going. Truly. Like, what did he just say? Does it make any fucking sense? Anytime he is whining on the road.

No, but there are so many more options we could go with. Anytime he is teeing a bit up, I sit back with humility and I go, I'm in his hands, I have no control over this, but God, I was so confident that bontadontda was going to lead into something that starts with a ba or a da He's surely not just gonna take a different food item and break it into the rhythm of the theme It'll be like ba ba ba bolines or some shit. We can't make the menu too challenging. No, but I think it's so brilliant because Why wait, what are the rules here? No, we can't! because the themes are so recognizable that you can do like that. That chicken tender. Well, that was good. Ben, what do you think?

I like it. All right. Good. I just, I'm just imagine some like Saudi financier where you're like, I need $800 million for a franchise across the world. Big lorries, ears are burning right now. And you're like, hamburger fries, the guys like security. Just hammering that silent alarm. I texted this to Blank though, but I had an incredible dream recently that the Times Square, Planet Hollywood reopened

and every floor was a different property. And they were like, and we're doing TV now. And one floor was the Sopranos. Full circle, but then it was like, here's the Spider-Verse floor. And like the menus are different, the theming's crazy. But they weren't singing. That was, that's the flaw.

My brain couldn't think that. Right, you're right. Yeah. You couldn't turn off the dark. I couldn't turn off the dark. Is that the end of the top ten? Yeah. David can you just tell me what the other films in the top five of the year for 84 were? Uh. Out of curiosity. Yeah. You had 1984 domestic box office So we have Ghostbusters. Beverly Hills Cop, Indiana Jones at the top. Yeah. And then, fucking box office mojo is messing. I don't know what we're talking about. It's a great website.

It works. It works properly. Here we go. Much better. Gremlins is number four. The only other 100 million grocer of the year. Was Gremlins? Gremlins? Yes. Gremlins ended up at? 151.

Yeah, it was so big. That's crazy. It was so big. Yeah. Number five is the Karate Kid. Okay. Number six is, we already mentioned it, and please get your rejoinder ready, Police Academy. ACAP.

Number seven is Footloose. Number eight is Star Trek 3 The Search for Spot. Spock, not Spot. Spot is under the rug. If I've read Spot, we're Spot many, many times. Or is he in the basket? I can't remember. Number nine is Romancing the Stone. And number 10 is Purpurrain.

That's a pretty, that's a pretty fascinating snapshot, Tan. Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty good year. It is? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean. It's a lot of movies that got. Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty good year. It is, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's a lot of movies that got sequelized. I was gonna say, yeah. Every one of those movies is either continuing a franchise

or becomes some sort of franchise. Except for Footloose. Footloose gets a remake and a Broadway show. It does, much later. But it becomes a... And Purple Rain gets a sort of quasi-sequel in a weird way. Sure.

Not a bad movie. We talked about covering him. Maybe he'll be on March Madness again. At this point, he'll be settled. I think... I think he will be, right? I think he will be. Right? The format we're going for, I think he's in it. I think the format we're going for, he'll be there.

People will know. It's March. It's March! Yay! Olivia. Yeah? Thank you so much for being here. Oh my god, guys. I'm gonna see you.

I'll move back to New York. I will move back to New York in a year and a half. But in the meantime, if you're blanking, you see me at the Elmwood Rialto in Berkeley, California. Hell yeah. Say hi. Oh, please do say, and call in any burger reports, please. Please.

True. There aren't a lot of celebs in the East Bay. It's gotta be one or two. Couple trying to hide out. Booth Riley lives in Oakland, so. Okay. I'll probably see him in some movies. He's finally working on another movie, right?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anything you wanna plug? I work at thecut.com. Hell yeah. I'm the person who picks the essays. Hell yeah. Just kidding.

I love the choice. I'm anonymous. I love choosing the essays. I'm the one who, everyone sends in their essays and I say, this one. No, I. Anytime I read one, I love choosing the essays. I'm the one who everyone sends in their essays and I say this one. No, I... Anytime I read one, I go, well picked. I'm in the, I'm blogging every day at The Cut.

So you can just type that into your phone and you'll find me. Fab. I gotta go make pasta. Yeah, I gotta go see a musical. Which one? Maybe Happy Ending, the Darren Criss one. No sense of if that's good or not. Neither do I, so I'm excited. go see a musical. Which one? Maybe Happy Ending, the Darren Criss one. No sense of if that's good or not.

Neither do I. So I'm excited. Pesto pasta? No, I'm making a ragu. That feels like, is that a recent shift? I mean, it's not for my daughter. She'll just. It's not for your daughter?

No, it's for everyone else. I mean, my daughter will, I'm sure, eat mac and cheese or pesto like she does every single night. Okay. So see, that's why I was guessing pesto because. No, no, it's a fair guess. Thank you very much. Thank you all for listening. I have a deck I have to make.

You have a deck you have to make? I'm not talking about want to test your house. I'm talking about a creative deck. Business style. Baby. For us? Walking away. I don't know what's going on.

So it's kind of a weird... Things have taken a temple of doom turn. We got to get back above ground. We got to get back above ground. We gotta get back above ground. Um, on the Patreon right now? Yes. We just recently did, just yesterday... Analyze. No, we'll be doing...

We are now... We did our second entry in the Star Trek... Yes, the next generation. ...Card era. Mm-hmm. But we're including Galaxy Quest with that. I love that movie. It's a perfect movie and I just found out that Ben has never seen it.

We're going to get a fresh on mic first time watch. Oh my god, you're going to love it. I think it's going to kind of blow his mind. I told him it is one of the perfect movies in my life. Alan Rickman is incredible in this movie. The thing is, every time I watch it, I'm like, who's my best supporting actor pick? And it changes every time. Yeah. Everyone is good in it. Everyone's great in it. It's incredible.

Anyway, look forward to that. Hell yeah. In April? Yeah, that'll be... April 1st, is that right? April 21st. Okay, a little later. Also then, later this month,

we'll do a Spielberg bonus episode about the Twilight Zone, the movie as well as... Only his segment. Right. But then his two amazing story segments. Correct. Yes. Spielberg anthologies. Yeah. And tune in next week for an episode on The Color Purple. A movie probably be just as goofy as this. I was gonna say. I imagine. And you know what? You're allowed to make that joke and I'm glad you did. Thank you all. And as always, hamburger.

Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas. And our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J.

Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss and Pat Reynolds our production assistant is Minick Special thanks to David Cho Jordan fish and Nate Patterson for their production help Head over to blank check pod comm for links to all of the real nerdy shit Join our patreon blank check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes it.