Blank Check with Griffin & David - Inland Empire with David Rees

Episode Date: November 24, 2024

Only on Blank Check would an episode about David Lynch’s deeply destabilizing INLAND EMPIRE turn into a heartfelt celebration of creativity and the human experience. David Rees joins us and brings receipts - including literal receipts for every movie ticket he purchased in 2007 and his high school newspaper review of Twin Peaks (a pan) - as we gush about David Lynch’s singular position in American culture. Plus, we delve into tons of Laura Dern context, discuss dreams where you inhabit a different person, and spend an inordinate amount of time talking about the Snuffy Smith comic strip. Listen to Election Profit Makers Watch DickTown on Hulu Watch Going Deep with David Rees on YouTube The Box Office Game is Sponsored by Regal Cinemas: Sign up for Regal Unlimited today and get 10% off your 3 month subscription when using code BLANKCHECK Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack Some podcasts change. Well, they don't change. They reveal. They reveal themselves over time, you know? Kind of a low energy. You didn't want to do like brutal fucking podcasting. Something like that.

I'm trying to think of like, it is true that even though Inland Empire has lots of dialogue, it's not like a movie where I'm like so quotable. Bam! I kicked him straight in the podcast so hard they go crawling into his brain for a refuge. He went down like a $2 whore. I was, the other, there are consequences to one's podcasts and there certainly would be podcasts to wrong action. I have fucking, whatever, give us a shit.

What would you do, Sam? I said brutal fucking podcasting. Okay, see Ben's right. and the blue and whatever gives a shit. What would you do, Simms? I would just do this. I said brutal fucking podcasting. Okay, see, Ben's right. This is the right way to open with a quote for this movie is an eerie stare. Yeah, can you do it for me? Thank you.

And with the teeth out. You're doing the, trying to do the teeth out. And just imagine like holding a light bulb two inches below your chin, just blowing your face out. You could say, hey, this feels just like dialogue from our podcast. That is good. How many times have you seen this movie?

Three times. Okay. I've seen it four times. Well, it's not a competition. Well, you kind of set it up like one. No, because I feel like our guest today, the movies we've had you on for, you're very particular, but when you come on, it has to be kind of a totemic film.

We always- At least to me it does. Doors wide open. And there are other things we kicked around that you've almost done, but it feels like it has to be the right kind of thing. But I also feel like despite the fact that you were a man who was very thorough,

dare I say can be obsessive within certain passions and interests, I think there is a ceiling on how many times you watch a movie. So even the movies that are the most impactful for you, I feel like you've never gone beyond five. Is that right? You're not really a big re-watcher. Twenty-eight days later episode,

I feel like you said that was the most you've ever watched. And I was at five times. That's my memory. So I think I've seen, yeah, 28 days later, five times. And I think I don't think I've ever seen a movie six times. But I think there's multiple movies I've seen five times. Not even as a kid, you wouldn't watch like, you know,

whatever, some comedy. Well, we didn't have a VCR for a long time. Sure, and you probably didn't have like cable. No, my parents did not pay for me. That's right. So no control, you're at the mercy of the network programmer. Yeah, right. Flipping around watching the same movies over and over again.

But there was no like going to see Star Wars six times in theaters. No, that would have been an indulgence that would have been beyond my parents' imagination. But I wonder over the course of my life, have I seen Star Wars like all the way through five times? Possibly, but then we're not talking about like right about that of like yeah through osmosis some movies are always playing. The intentionality I guess is what we're asking.

I like the way you're putting it of like right you going to your parents as a young person and being like I'd like to see Star Wars again and they'd be them being like you already saw that. But you've already seen it once. The tech's just exhausted, there was nothing more to see. Like the outlay happened. It was like we have Star Wars at home, except it was you have Star Wars in your memory. Yeah, exactly, right.

You can watch it whenever you want. That's why we paid for it the first time. So it goes in there. No, I saw Inland Empire, the first time, the first and third times I saw Inland Empire were two great, great experiences with movies. Yeah. I mean, when we were talking about David Lynch

and you said, are you interested in any of these? And I was like, I would do Inland Empire. Part of what I was thinking was, I have a memory of the first time I saw this movie as being so fucking great. And since I agreed to do it, I was like, well, now I have to do my due diligence. I should re-watch it. I haven't seen it

since it came out in the theaters. The fabled third time. And I saw it the second time with Friends, which was good. And then the third time was, well, I can't wait to talk about the third time. Because the third time was really special and I related, wait to talk about the third time. The third time was really special and I related to the movie in a way that I've never related to another movie.

For me, it took the movie to a whole new level where all of a sudden, like this is my favorite thing David Lynch has ever done. Then it's great that we have you here on what podcast? Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks

to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. This is a mini-series on the films of David Lynch. It is called Twin Pods Firecast with me. Wow. But I should say it is a mini series on the films and television series of David Lynch

because today we are talking about, to date, his final theatrical film, his final feature film, but this mini series is obviously far from over. Wait, are you guys doing Twin Peaks? Of course. The whole, all of it? It kinda can't not, you can't do David Lynch

and not do Twin Peaks, you know? Are you doing one episode per episode? No, we are doing six total episodes on Twin Peaks. Plus Fire Walk with me. That's right, that's right. So seven, I suppose if you could. You guys are doing a complete rewatch of the whole shebang. That is correct.

We have already. First time watch. For me, first time watch. I mean. And for Ben, for most of Twin Peaks. For most of. Right. Do you know what I have here, Griffin? Well, we'll get to this.

Okay, we'll get to that. Okay, but I have someone else's recollections of the first time they ever watched Twin Peaks, when it aired. Wow. So we can get into that. We should talk about that. Compare notes.

But yes, we are doing season one, season two. And the return. And we're splitting the return into four episodes. Yeah, it's just. It should talk about that. But yes, we are doing season one, season two, and then we're splitting the return into four episodes. It's quite a dense. It's interesting because any other, I guess, look, when we did Wachowski and Cameron Crowe, we did do their, the Wachowski and Cameron Crowe and those two mini series, the most recent project they had done was TV and we did the seasons of their now largely forgotten TV shows. And then we kind of went, we never want to do TV ever again.

And so we made that a rule. And obviously the Wachowskis and Cameron Crowe hasn't made another thing, but the Wachowskis did. This is such a bizarre example of like, with other people would be like, well, the series ends with Inland Empire. TV doesn't count. Right. Yeah.

But I mean, obviously it's also, look, we did the Wachowskis and Cameron Crowe and they didn't even like direct every episode of, but obviously, When Peaks, The Return is, you know, all directed by David Lynch. He made it all as one giant project. And it won an award at a film festival, right? Like at Venice or something, they gave it to him

or it was on second sound as best movie of the year. We'll talk about it, but right, some people now try to sort of claim it as a movie. I used to be very resistant to that. Now that I know how he made it, I'm a little more open to it. He didn't quite make it as traditional television. Look, we're doing four episodes on The Return, and one of them will obviously be entirely devoted to whether or not

it's okay to log it on Letterboxd. We'll spend a full episode litigating that. It's an interesting conversation. People love that kind of film analysis. It's good. Can you not put TV shows on Letterboxd or miniseries? It has to be. David.

What? It's a contentious topic amongst fidgety nerds. We're doing the bit now. Largely you cannot. People are so annoying about this. Largely television is not on Letterboxd because it's quite unwieldy, but certain projects are. Projects.

Such as Twin Peaks The Return that can. That's allowed to be on Letterboxd? Well, allowed is a funny, it's a, you know, if you can smush stuff into their database, then, you know, it's not like Letterboxd has total control over this. But people still fight this with the urgency of like, Donald Trump is lowering the esteem of the office,

he is setting a precedent we will never be able to revert. If I cannot log Twin Peaks The Return 50 times on Letterboxd, you know, why am I even? But Letterboxd is mostly for feature films. It does, you can't like go and look up, like, here's an interesting thing. CSI New York on Letterboxd. No.

It's not like IMDB where everything, okay, got it. But here's an interesting thing on Letterbox. You cannot log twin peaks you can log twin peak peaks the European cut Of the pilot you can which was sort of a theatrical. Oh, right Yes, Northwest Passage Right the pilot so usually there's that kind of linear ship But then short films are on there and TV movies

are on there and it starts to get slippery. That's not what we're talking about today. And you love Twin Peaks, but we're not here to discuss it. Today we're talking about Inland Empire, his last feature film. And as of the time we're recording this, there's been a lot of hand-wringing recently about him saying that he, due to health, cannot be on set making a feature film away from his home, which people took as a retirement notice. And then he put out a press release saying, I am not retired.

I will never retire. He also said he had quit smoking and then lovingly described the experience of setting tobacco on fire. Setting them on fire. In a way that made me want to spark up a butt. I was like, this is the best argument for secrets I've ever read. They sound incredible.

While he's saying like, I have not touched a cigarette in two years. I barely can leave my home if I take three steps. I almost crumble. I shouldn't laugh, obviously. I think the press release ended with the immortal sentence, I'm filled with happiness and I will never retire. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's like so glorious.

Yes. But clearly, you know, he may not make a traditional feature film again, we don't know. He's 78 years old and he does have emphysema and who knows what the future holds for David Lynch. Let's congratulate Ben Hosey on quitting smoking, by the way. I saw Ben hunkering around the mic. Yeah.

That press release hit you hard. It did, it was hard to read because here's the thing, it's a terrible habit, but damn is it fucking cool. Can you imagine how many cigarettes he smoked? That's it, no one makes it look cooler than him. When it was like David Lynch's emphysema, I was like, that's not, that's like saying like the sky is, but like I've never not seen a picture of that man,

like he's always smoking. Have any of you watched that David Lynch, the art life documentary? I saw that, yeah. Right. I believe the opening credits play out over a static like three minute shot of him just like lovingly smoking a cigarette while sitting back

and looking at the painting. Is that the- That he just finished. And I'm just like, right, this is the fundamental image of him as a guy. Is that the thing where he, I was thinking about this when I was thinking about Inland Empire. He's like, if you wanna know if a work of art is finished,

you take a stick and you tie a ball to the stick on a piece of string and you point it at the painting, the stick will tell you if the painting is finished and then he does it and you just watch. Is that what you're talking about that thing? Cause I know I've seen a video of that. Is it in that thing or is that just another, there's been so many of these things.

There's also a thing where he's making rice. Is that what he's making or fried egg or something? Like, you know, he has his cooking videos. I don't know, man. Look, he's the king of content. The man's been putting out 10. He's been pitching 10 for decades. Our guest today returning to the show from going deep with David Rees, a show

I mistitled recently in an episode. Oh, really? I combined it with how to, with John Wilson. I'll take it. I need all the help I can get. How was it? His was a hit show. Is, is I have to ask this every time you're on the show. Is it streaming anywhere? Is it back anywhere? Do we know?

I think you can watch some of it on Amazon. Okay. And some of it on YouTube. I'll take that. David Rees. And Dick Town, starring Griffin. Dick Town! Well, and starring David Rees and John Hulch. Right.

Season one is on YouTube, for sure. Okay. Thank God. Not sure about season two. Right. Season one is on YouTube for sure. Okay. Thank God. Not sure about season two. David Reese is here. Hi, David. How are you doing?

I'm good. It's nice to be face to face with all you guys. In the room. After almost two years. More. Well, oh, oh, oh. Last time was his wedding. Yes, but not...

Seeing you in person, it's been two years. I thought you were saying... Season two is on Amazon. It's all on Amazon. Purchasable. Episode in person, I believe it's been two years. I thought you were saying- Season two is on Amazon. It's all on Amazon. Oh, great. Purchasable. Episode in person, I believe has been five years. Is that possible? I think the last time we did one, I was on a Zoom. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

So it's been a long time. It has. Whatever the last time, yeah. A sight for sore eyes. You too. I like your mustache. Hey, you know what? I was shaving and I was like trimming around and I decided to keep the stash. And I was like, the test of this is gonna be

if Reeves approves. I love it. That was my thought. I was like, if this works with David, I'm holding onto it for a bit. And if he doesn't like it or he doesn't mention it, gone. I'm into it. Thank you. I'm into it. Thank you.

So the last one you did in person with us, was it Spirited Away? Yeah. Right. And you were in a different studio than I remember. You were in Manhattan. Yeah. Yeah. And since then, right, you've come on for 28 days later And you were in a different studio than I remember. You were in Manhattan. Yeah. Yeah. And since then, right, you've come on for 28 Days Later and something else, right?

There were a couple episodes that almost happened, didn't if we want to fucking crack open the books. Mammy Weiss was a thought. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. You were going to do one of the Buster Keaton episodes. Oh, that's right. But then you wanted 28 Days Later, so we, right. Yeah.

Right, yeah. Because I live kind of near Buster Keaton's old studios. And you love that guy. I do, yeah. I mean, so do I. So do I. Nah, you don't think he's so great. Oh, you weren't into him? No, he spirited us doing Buster Keaton.

He's a huge fan. Yeah, but I'm fascinated that, yeah, you had only seen this once. It had a massive impact on you. And then in your two revisits in prep for the podcast, it grew. So the first time, yeah. So I brought a couple of documents with carefully organized. Classic David.

Yeah. A couple of documents, big notebook filled with notes. You know, I got to show up with all my paperwork. I love it. It looks like an evidence layout. Like when they take all the knives out of the joker's pocket. This movie is weird. Now you say you were at the bodega at 5.30 PM.

That's what you're saying? So I have three documents. I'll, why don't I list the documents and you can tell me in which order you would like me to present my case. Fantastic. The first is a green spiral notebook filled with, I guess, six pages of sloppy notes that represent my reaction and recording of the second time

I watched Inland Empire. And what was that? Can we time the thing? That was last week. Okay, okay, wow. Last week was the second time? Yep, second and third times. I watched it for a second time,

and then among my friends, a particular decision was made, and then two days later, we watched it for a third and transcendent time. Oh, fascinating. We got a great story on deck. You hadn't seen it before. No, I watched it last night for the first time.

This is the one you'd never seen. Exhibit B is... So I saw it when it was released theatrically in North Carolina. I was in Chapel Hill in the spring of 2007. I think technically it came out in 2006. It came out December 06, but a slow, small release. So I saw it on, I have the date,

I saw it on the 10th of March, 2007 at the Carolina Theater in Durham. A day after my sister's ninth birthday. The Carolina Theater is a grand old theater. Yeah, gorgeous. And it was the perfect place to see this movie because it was like 10% capacity. You know, it felt like... It's like you're at Club Salencia.

Exactly. And I went in absolutely cold. It's one of my favorite memories of going into a movie absolutely cold. All I knew was David Lynch had a new movie out. I'd seen Mulholland Drive, probably once in the theater and once on VHS or DVD. I like David Lynch.

As Exhibit C will point out, will prove, I beg your pardon, I have a long-standing relationship with David Lynch. I almost feel like we lead with Exhibit C because it feels like that's the earliest point. Oh, you want to go chronologically? Okay, forget Exhibit B. Forget I, okay.

Because we often ask our guests, what's your history with X, with this artist or a coroner Cause we often ask our guests, what's your history with X, with this artist or a card or whatever. Right. Okay, exhibit A, re-numbered. Whoa! Yeah.

Holy shit. Jury's cheating their pay. Objection, objection. Approach the pitch. The court will come to order. I mean, fellas, I'm about to set it off with exhibit A. This is the May 18th, 1990 edition of the Proconian, the official newspaper of Chapel Hill High School.

Wow. Let's say also perfectly preserved. It is called the Proconian because it discusses the pros and cons of life at Chapel Hill High. That is a cool fucking name. Yeah. Why is it every year? Since 1931.

Yeah, yeah, it goes way back. Wait, so you're allowed to be like, hey, I got a cool fucking name. Yeah. Why is it 1931? Yeah, yeah, it goes way back. So you're allowed to be like, hey, I got a con this week. I don't like doing homework. Can we get that on the front page? That's kind of a regular column. Right. It's a revolving door of who takes the man.

I mean, on the front page, one of my buddies, Matt, he wrote an article about how the Chapel Hill High School Counseling Department was encouraging students to limit their college entrance attempts to five. They wanted to cap the number of colleges you applied to and the article goes on to say like that was really... I reread this whole issue the other night because I haven't thought about this in what 34 years. Have you kept every issue from your years there? Well, Griffin, I kept every issue in which I was the movie critic for the Proconian. So what's the, can you tell me the year again?

I'm sorry. Sorry, yeah, it's 1990. So this is spring of my senior year of high school. Right, okay. Senior year in high school. The Proconian's a daily newspaper, right? You guys were. Twice daily.

It was a morning and evening edition. Morning and 8 p.m. edition. Yeah, and it's still on paper. No, it was every Friday, I think. It was a morning and evening edition. Morning and 8 PM edition. Yeah, and it's still on paper. No, it was every Friday, I think. It was a weekly paper. A weekly is for high school paper, pretty impressive. That's nice also to give you the weekend to sort of really sit with it.

Digest everything, yeah, totally. So I had an entertainment column. It was called the three bean salad of entertainment. The three beans of the salad were movies, TV shows, and music. Those were three of my interests. The three great beans of society. And like every fucking know-it-all high school boy, I just used this platform to announce hyperbolic justifications for why the Minutemen are the best band that has ever existed or

you know, whatever. Just justify all my tastes. Did you have an editor? How much control would you need? Well, the editor was my high school girlfriend. So I actually had quite a bit of leeway. This sounds like just go Friday or whatever. This is some antics.

Yeah. Now what's interesting about this edition is that I- No, they yell a lot. Remember when, so remember on Spirited Away when I brought in like one of my favorite pieces of criticism. Of course. Nigel Andrews. Nigel Andrews.

Six out of five stars. In the history of the party. And you checked with him and he maintains the six stars. Yeah, exactly. Just such a great, it's such a great, also it's another well-preserved piece of newspaper criticism. Well, the wonderful thing you'll remember

is that that was six out of five stars. Well, now when I paid close attention to page 10 of the Perconian, where the column title is, it doesn't say three beans salad of entertainment. It says four beans salad of entertainment. And then the column begins, as Burger King says, sometimes you got to break the rules. So I broke a few- Did Burger King say that? I think that was a thing back in the 90s, yeah.

So I broke a few rules, ordered a Whopper, and changed the name of my column. What is the fourth bean? Because now, of course, it used to be the three bean salad of entertainment, but now there's a fourth bean, right? So like Nigel Andrews, unknowingly, of course, I was like, let me acknowledge upfront what you're all thinking, which is what happened to the three bean

salad of entertainment? Why is it now a four bean salad of entertainment? We've all gotten used to that. It's all so potent. Right. We've all committed to a prism through which we understand. Exactly. Yeah.

What the fourth bean was this week, I decided to review all the comics in the Chapel Hill newspaper. Oh. So I added them as a fourth bean. The fourth bean is- The funny pages. Yeah, the funny pages. Your newspaper comics.

Take on Curtis or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Prince Valiant, two stars. The Born Loser, 4.5 stars. Cathy, 0.6 stars. Wait, you just bodied Cathy out of the room. Cathy's funny. She likes chocolate. Okay, you just bodied Kathy out of the room. Kathy's funny. She likes chocolate.

Do you wanna hear my review? I mean, I haven't looked at Kathy in a long time. And you have to remember I was a high school boy and I was a total asshole. So it was probably some misogyny. But here's the review of Kathy. Kathy by Kathy, how do you pronounce her last name? Guy's White.

Guy's White. I gave it.6 stars. It says, oh my. Here's the basic Kathy strip. Panel one, Kathy sits behind her desk. Panel two, she says. So you're doing, you're cold reading this. Yeah, I haven't looked at this.

Panel two, she says, it's so awful. Panel two, she says, I don't look good in a bathing suit. Panel three, mass hysteria, Kathy yells, oh. Panel four, Kathy looks guilty. Lines of exasperation shoot from her head. Kathy says, I need chocolate. There, now you never have to read the stupid strip again. What an asshole.

I mean, look. But I mean, that reflects my sense, you know, where I was at the time. That was where America was on Cathy. Yeah, I was, yeah. Cathy blazed a lot of trails. I'm very pro Cathy. That's kind of like the Lights, Camera, Jackson,

girls trip review. Oh yeah, what was he, what happened with him? No, it wasn't that. What was the one, a book smart where he said, my grandmother always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Right.

And they just stares down the camera for a minute in silence. What was your favorite funny page? Like what gets the highest? Snuffy Smith. Snuffy Smith, that's it? By Fred Laswell, I gave five stars. Wow, that's a perfect point.

I think of Snuffy Smith as like the sort of gasoline inhaling like absolute nonsense. Where it's like Barney Google's a little too erudite for people, we need a yokel character to kind of like bring the laughs. What was the case for Snuffy Smith? Snuffy Smith, the art, especially the Sunday pages, the art was beautiful. Yeah, Snuffy Smith is kind of a cool style. It looked really, really good.

It was just silly. I mean, it was like one of those things when you're in high school, and I think it was, I don't think it was a deliberate decision, but it's like you and your friends are like, let's all get really into Snuffy Smith and say this is the best cartoon. And that'll be our thing.

It's like, we're the Snuffy Smith gang. I'm really sorry to do this. I know this is a big dense movie. I just have to know what other funny pages you reviewed. Just the names and I just want to see if any of the others I want to hear you take. I'll run through all the, I'll give you the titles and the stars and I just want to see if any of the others I want to hear you take. I'll run through all the, I'll give you the titles and the stars. Okay, we'll do that.

Prince Valiant, two stars. Frank and Ernest, four stars. Outland, one star. The Phantom, 3.6 stars. Calvin and Hobbes, four stars. The Born Loser, 4.5 stars. Cathy, 0.6 stars. The Far Side, 3.4 stars. The Family Circus, 2.5 stars. According to Guinness, 3.7 stars. Peanuts, 4.6 stars. Snuffy Smith, 5 stars. I mean, you're putting Snuffy Smith over Peanuts and Calvin and Hubs.

You're being a bit of a high school contrarian. I was a high school... Right. I know at that point Carl Stoltz's art was... I had a whole page every week where I could just do whatever I want, you know, it's like... I mean, wait till I read this fucking review of Twin Peaks. I mean, if you think this is bad...

This is queuing up him reviewing Twin Peaks. And by the way, we've already established it's a dense movie we have to talk about. We haven't even gotten to the Twin Peaks thing. I just want to read quickly a Snuffy Smith script. A script. From, like, recent? No, it's from 86. Okay.

Because I believe Barney Google and Snuffy Smith still runs and you read it and you're like, who on earth even knows what this is about? Well, the original strip I think was from the early 20th century. It's the longest running. Right, and Barney Google is gone. Like he hasn't been a part of it in like a hundred years. I think it's literally still called though,

Barney Google and Snuffy Smith. Oh, I wondered. But okay, Barney Google and Snuffy Smith. Oh, I wonder. Yeah. But okay, please read me a Snuffy Smith. It's gonna be from 06. I have a hard time reading the handwriting on the date on it. But it's, they're playing poker. Snuffy and his friend, excuse me, I don't know the character's name.

And he says, balls o' fire, Snuffy. I'm tired of all your cheatin'. Put up your dukes. Your spelled Y-O-R. Of course. It's only a two panel strip. Snuffy Smith is usually two panel. Just set up one. Someone insults him.

Which I'm starting to, no, I'm starting to see David's case here, which is there's a cleanness to it. It's so clean. It's so freaking clean. It's like ammonia. Balls of fire, Snuffy, I'm tired of all your cheating. You mean harmful? Put up your dukes, right? Toxic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then second panel, Snuffy, I'm tired of all your cheap. You mean harmful? Put up your Dukes, right?

Toxic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then second panel, Snuffy has dropped the cards and he's holding up two penance, pendants that say JMU. He's putting up his Dukes. Oh. Wow. That's so bad.

That's more literal, that's like more referential. Can I read you today's Snuffy Smith? Are they still making Snuffy Smith? Yeah, we have to talk about the movie. Snuffy is talking to, I think his friend is called Doc. Yeah. Snuffy says, why should one feller get to decide everything? Oh wow, David's making a choice in the voice.

And Doc says, hmm, you know, you're right, Snuffy. Okay. Panel two, Doc is flipping three coins in the air and saying, I'll flip Lincoln, Jefferson, and Washington. Panel two, Doc is flipping three coins in the air and saying, I'll flip Lincoln, Jefferson and Washington. That's good. That's a good comment. I will defend that one.

That's good. Don't really get it, but I sort of- I really get it. Yeah, that's, yeah. It's just like the logic of Snuffy saying, I don't like how one person decides everything, which I think Snuffy's trying to talk about executive power. Could be.

And Doc is interpreting it as like the coin. It's actually kind of awesome. The president on the coin is kind of making the call. Right. So he's gonna flip three coins. Now I don't know how flipping three coins is really gonna help him make any decisions is the only thing I'll say.

Well, sure, but if there were a sense of closure, then the strip would end. There has to be a yearning. There has to be something unresolved with Snuffy. John Rose is the current... Yeah, Fred Laswell must be long retired, if not deceased. Yeah, but anyway, it's just really funny that you put Snuffy on top.

Back to the Perconian and four beats solid. John Rose has been doing it since 1998. Oh, wow. So I was 12 years old. Yeah. All right, so in the same issue of the Perconian, I reviewed Twin Peaks, which was airing at the time. This I have reread.

This is a tough read. I mean, this really... Reading your high school writing. I was gonna say, this is a tough read. I mean, this really. Reading your high school writing. I was gonna say, there's a precedent for it on this podcast and you couldn't come off worse than I did. So please proceed. Right. I'm not gonna read all of this review.

I will just read the thing that I remember being so proud of when I wrote it. I can't believe David Lynch recovered from this cutting remark. The critic says, I don't like David Lynch recovered from this cutting remark. The critic says, I don't like Twin Peaks. It moves too slowly for television. It's pretentious to the point of being overtly obnoxious. Director David Lynch has not changed the face of television

for the 1990s. He's just made a tired genre more surreal. That's no great feat. Yeah. Wow. Wow. I see. I thought you were gonna be like,

hey guys, check out this crazy show on ABC, Twin Peaks, but you're like, no, no. No, I was like- The hype storm is, you know. I was like a little Armin White up in here, like, oh, everyone's talking about this great show, the liberal elites. It actually is kind of boring and weird.

The unwashed masses are falling for it. This lines up with your Snuffy Smith it actually is kind of boring and weird. The unwashed masses are falling forth. This lines up with your snuffy Smith is actually the best shit. Some contrary. Yeah. Like where you're like that, the common man, the simple tales, you know.

But what's interesting and I had forgotten about until I reread this review was at the time I had seen Eraserhead because so what I say is, oh God, I talk about some other stuff and then I say, eraser head is weird and it represents Lynch at his best. Eraser head is actually extremely bizarre, hot take, and has some of the more disturbing images in the history of American film.

Right, so you're like Twin Peaks 2 sanded down for. Right, yeah. But the weirdness in eraser head is not without purpose. It's a twisted sort of symbolism and makes the film agonizingly personal. Twin Peaks is not very personal. It's actually quite alienating anyway. So I had seen Eraserhead.

Do you know when in the arc of Twin Peaks this review came out? Like how much of the show were you commenting on? Well, if it's spring of 1990, I think it was probably within the first few weeks. I don't remember when it actually premiered. The first season is eight episodes that started late. Like, it was like March to May or March to April or something.

That's right. It was in the springtime. I'm just curious if you're, like, reviewing the pilot or if you're like... Probably the pilot in maybe one other episode. I honestly don't remember. Wow. Okay. But I know I watched it. I mean, I would have actually watched an episode.

Yeah. The only time I behaved unethically as a entertainment columnist was I actually reviewed a Guar concert before I went to it because we had to get the thing into press and Guar was playing that night. But I had seen Guar so many times, I was like, I know what's gonna happen.

So I just reviewed it before actually seeing that particular, yeah. Shocking. It's a little different from a long-running TV show. I tried to just talk about embarrassing high school newspaper things. Yeah, because there's definitely no history of you saying stuff on mic or in paper that might get in trouble. So were you a high school movie critic? I had a column called Griffin's Top Five.

That was usually more of a... It was a humor piece. It was a... I'd come up with a weird top five list. Uh-huh. Maybe it was top ten. It was top ten. It was top ten. But there was...

They would... I feel like at the end of the year they'd ask a couple people to do end of year movie lists. And you'd have like four competing ones. Of course. On the page. I wasn't the regular movie critic.

Right, I see. Yeah. And you wanted to put on that sex tape and they wouldn't let you? Yeah, you know, Lucretia Martel's The Holy Girl at number three, Paris Hilton sex tape number 10, I believe was my original list. And they wisely said, absolutely not.

David. Yes. We are so thrilled. original list and they wisely said absolutely not. David? Yes? We are so thrilled that this episode is brought to you by our friends at Regal Cinemas. Regal! The movies! The movies! Theaters! The kings of movies.

The kings. The crown is atop their head when it comes to theatrical exhibition. Yeah, you probably have a Regal somewhere near you. They're all over this beautiful country of ours. They're all over. And here's the thing, in particular, that's great. Regal Unlimited. Okay?

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you've made back the purchase. It pays for itself, immediately. And if you're a listener to this podcast, there's a reasonable chance you see more than two movies in theaters per month. The thing I love about it is it also encourages you to go to see movies more because you're like, eh, you know, I'm already an Unlimited member.

Like, eh, I'm on the fence about seeing that in theaters. I'm just gonna go. Can we talk about some things happening in the world of movie theaters this November. Yeah, what do we got? 2024, Year of Our Lord. You saw Conclave. Yeah. It's a rollicking good time.

We had a lot of fun. A glossy, groan of thriller. Yeah. As our friend John Hodgman said, a great movie about doors. That was his line. I give him full credit. And a movie with an incredibly normal ending you need to see for yourself Is that fair to say absolutely? It's it's a movie that gets a great response from a crowd

Going through the sort of rollercoaster arc of what is oh? But November has lots of big movies Griff sure You've seen wicked I have seen right or two lots of. Denzel Washington having a ball. He's in it I hear you kind of just disappears into the tapestry Moana to write like it this is like, you know, it's a Thanksgiving's approaching. There's all kinds of big stuff to see. Yeah We're gonna get wicked. We're gonna get glicked. Yeah, is that how it said? I see it typed out people talk about getting glicked Oh, cuz it's like gladiator to it's just not very not very clean. Yeah. Look, maybe you're someone who wants to catch, Robert Zemeckis is here, and it's final days,

playing in theaters, and you're like, I don't have to pay full ticket price to see this movie. Why don't you sign up for Regal Unlimited and just use one of your slots on that? Covered it on our podcast if you want to catch up with it. It's a perfect use of Regal Unlimited. Now listen. Enora going wide.

That's true. Spreading across this great country. A film we both love. When you join Regal Crown Club, which is free to join. That's their free membership program you can upgrade to unlimited on top of that. Right. Regal Crown Club, you're going to get concession upgrades, you're going to get movie tickets and exclusive prizes and stuff when you earn points. You get discounts on certain days, benefits on certain things. You're collecting points every time you spend.

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They'll throw weird stuff up there. I certainly got a lot of our Avatar cup toppers. They also have sweepstakes you can join with points. A lot of posters. All this stuff is very exciting. On its own. But if you sign up now and use the code blankcheck, that's us.

You will get 10% off your three month subscription. So not only do you already get this great deal, you get 10% off it and you get to support the show. Yeah. It's win, win, win. Now go to the Regal app and click the unlimited banner. Follow the instructions there to sign up and enter the promo code blank check when prompted to receive your discount.

Just to tell you how it works. Yeah, we're making it as simple as we can. And boy, once you've done the sign up, does it make life a lot easier for regular theater-goers like us? Yes. Can't wait to see Red One and 40X. Anyway, David Lynch, great American artist. So you liked Twin, you didn't like Twin Peaks

as a young man, did you come around on Twin Peaks or on David Lynch generally? I think before the Showtime thing started, I think I rewatched all of season one. I don't think I've ever seen all of season two of Twin Peaks. I think I just bailed at some point. It feels like everyone does. Ben and I are currently working through it.

I did the same thing with season two. There is this certain point, I think, where we all kind of drop off with a certain sort of reveal. And I think that's because he wasn't as involved in it or something, or the other guy wasn't involved, or something like that, right? Everyone was a little less involved and it was a little more chaotic.

I think there's much to love about season two, but it's hard to feel motivated to watch it, especially before knowing that Return is coming, where it's kind of like, well, I know this didn't really get to, you know, kind of resolve itself artistically, like, blah, blah, blah, but it is worth watching season two if you ever have the time to get to the final episode,

which is quite amazing. I think I have watched the final episode. I think a lot of people just skipped ahead. Which is understandable. And I've never seen the Twin Peaks movie Fire Walk with me. Oh, interesting. I would say it's quite good. I've heard that, yeah. Yeah.

But I have watched The Return and that was a really special experience. Do you feel like Fire Walk with me? Is that the only Lynch movie you haven't seen, possibly? No, I haven't seen a number of them, I realized, coming over here. I've never seen The Elephant Man. My favorite. I think when I was a kid, I think when I was a kid, I think when I was a kid,

the Elephant Man was always on HBO. I could be misremembering. So I don't wanna say like, oh, I watched it like through osmosis, but I think it presented as so heavy and intimidating that childhood David couldn't handle it. Maybe was just like, I'll never be grown up enough to watch The Elephant Man.

It's in black and white. Like, what? So I've never seen that, and I've never seen the straight story. I would, you would, I think you would really like the straight story. Really? Oh yeah, I'm excited.

I mean, I'm excited to watch it. You can watch it on Disney Plus. Yeah. If you have Disney Plus. Oh really? Yes. And I think, I think I've seen all the other ones.

I saw Eraserhead in middle school because I had this great book. It was called Cult Movies by Danny Perry. You guys ever heard of that book? He published three of them. And in the 80s- Yes, I have heard of this. If you wanted to know about weird movies,

he published these three collections of his idiosyncratic personal essays and reviews of cult movies. I turned me on to a lot of amazing movies. He wrote about Eraserhead and included some stills in the essay. I think there's a photo of the baby and my friends and I were like, well, we definitely got to see this movie. Also at the time in the 80s, I lived in a college town. So like I think at

the record store, I think they had a racerhead posters, you know, the iconic image of what's his name with the hair backlit. So I think it was like an image. It was like it had a currency like we talked about that in our race heard episode that it's just like if you're someone who's kind of trying to find the subculture in any way, in art, that's just an image that somehow gets exposed to you at a young age. Right. I remember having, I had an entertainment weekly issue that I want to say was from 02 or 03 that was like their definitive ranking of the top 25 cult movies of all time. And I probably kept that issue for 15 years.

Yeah, it's like those books I had. Yeah. Yeah, the cult movie books. Right, but like to get that issue when I was in high school and be like. Yeah, it's like those books I had. Yeah. Yeah, the cult movie books. Right, but like to get that issue when I was in high school and be like, well, here's the guide. If I watch these 25 movies, I have some sense of like the weird corners of film

and then I can go deeper from there in each direction. How am I gonna get a copy of El Topo and watch it? Because that sounds really crazy. When a lot of this stuff felt, like Superstar, the Karen Carpenter story was on that list. Oh, wow. And they mentioned in the write-up, you can't watch this. Makes you want to watch it.

At the time that I was doing all this cult movie research, remember there were no DVDs. There was obviously no streaming. It was just like VHS. And maybe they'll have it, maybe they won't. So Eraserhead was something that we really wanted to see. And I remember we had a slumber party. It was like, we got it, we got it.

Tonight is Eraserhead night. And then we watched it and it was great. It is to me, the definitive cult movie. Yeah. So aside from your distaste at the time for Twin Peaks. Yeah, well, you just got it. You saw through the fog. I saw through society's lies.

You were otherwise pretty in the bag for Lynch, it sounds like. Well, I think for years, I mean, I only knew him from a racer head. Like I don't think I saw Wild at Heart until I was in my twenties. You probably didn't see Lost Highway when you came out. I only saw Lost Highway last year when it was in revival.

Pretty good, right? I saw it, yeah, pretty good. And Mulholland Drive I saw in the theater when it came out and then maybe once or twice afterwards on DVD or something. So let's take you to inland. And Dune, I never saw. Let's check it out. I can't believe Hodgman has let you get away with that.

Well, he summarized it for me like 50 times, but I remember once we were on tour and we were performing in Alabama in this great venue called the Bottle Tree. It doesn't exist anymore. And when it was over and we were hanging out at the bar, they were playing David Lynch's Dune in the background. And it was just like I've never seen someone struggle as much as like John trying to be sociable and talk to other people while also just like his eyes are fucking fixated on the-

Watching a movie he's seen 80 times. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I've never seen that either because it just looks like, I don't know, man. Just too gnarly. When you walk into Inland Empire in Chapel Hill... In 2007. In 2007, you're not like David Lynch is my god, I'm obsessive, I'm encyclopedic.

He's made a couple things that you love deeply. Yeah, yeah. I really, really liked Mulholland Drive. And I think that is like, he was just in the pocket on that one. Like he was in the sweet spot and, you know, there's just moments, there's moments in that movie that are just so affecting.

Just like, I think one thing that David Lynch does better than anyone, he does it in the final scene of the Twin Peaks, The Return, he does it with Naomi Watts masturbating in Mulholland Drive, and he does it in Inland Empire is a sense of almost just like cosmic desolation. Yes. Just an utter... Reduced to rubble.

Someone who has been reduced like... A hollow feeling that is so haunting. Like it woke, like when we finished watching The Return, like it woke me up that night. That, when that, that shot of him where he's like, what's the line? What year is this? Against an absolutely black sky, they must have CG'd the sky to make it just totally matte black.

And the same with Naomi Watts in Mulholland Drive when it's like you're back in reality and the brick, she's masturbating in that brick wall, it's like going in and out of focus or whatever it is. Yeah, I think that's really rude because I usually jerk off to walls, you know. It's so... Well, they have the right curves.

If it's that kind of like, what is it? Sexy wall. It's almost like a stucco kind of thing. Yeah. I think he's so good at that. And it's also a feeling that... Anyway, so when I went to see Inland Empire, it was like, I like David Lynch.

I'm not gonna... You're not there with two like flags being like, this is my biggest... No, no. It's like, oh, David Lynch. I'm not gonna- You're not there with two flags being like, this is my biggest- No, no. It's like, David Lynch has a new movie out. I've never seen a movie at the Carolina, it's supposed to be a great theater. I'll go check it out. And what's interesting is when we get to exhibit B,

I mean, one of the reasons that this memory is so special for me is that I remember it in the context of thinking that was a great year for me going to the movies. 2007? Yeah, we were talking about this. Right. It's nuts.

It's a great year. Yeah. Right. Because this falls into 2007 for you. 2007 thought of as sort of like a high watermark. It's kind of a second 1999 of a lot of major young American auteurs. So Exhibit B is a printout of my Excel spreadsheet that I kept for tax purposes.

I was a freelancer, so seeing movies was a tax write-off, according to my accountant. So I have like over 20 years of just like all the movies that I paid money for. And I mean, it's crazy. If you like, specifically I realized, if you like bro-y elevated genre movies that end with an unresolved kind of crappy feeling,

this is your year. It's so true. Children of men. Yes. The departed. Well, some of these are late 2006 that you were seeing early seven. I just want to clarify.

Yep, yep. The freaking... Cause you have, there will be blood and no country at the end of the clarify. Yep, yep. The freaking- Cause you have, there will be blood and no country at the end of the year. Yep, you have freaking Zodiac, Michael Clayton, Eastern Promises. The feeling you're talking about is present in all of it. Yeah, Gone Baby Gone, which actually I rewatched recently

when I was looking at this spreadsheet, it got me so psyched for Gone Baby Gone. I rewatched it and that might be getting up towards five times. Wow. I freaking love Gone Baby Gone. I rewatched it and that might be getting up towards five times. Wow. I freaking love Gone Baby Gone. I think it's so good and I think some of the sequences are so exciting and I think Casey Affleck

is fucking mesmerizing in that movie. He is. Before the devil knows you dead, speaking of feel good movies. Yeah. I mean, Jeepers Creepers. Do you know what I almost think was in the water that year? And I'll make it 2016, 2017.

George W. Bush and the Iraq War. Yeah, I was wondering, what is it? I think a lot of it is there was like the immediate aftermath of how do we reckon with 9-11 and a lot of movies that were trying to tackle it more directly. Or there was all the sort of like po-faced Iraq War movies that were more failed. Yeah, these are all taking an elliptical approach. And that's why they're... It's more just in the end.

Yeah. It's like it took five or six years for people to be like, I want to make a movie about this mood I'm feeling rather than actually trying to talk about the events. Zodiac for crying out loud. Zodiac I saw. I mean, when I was thinking back on Inland Empire, when I think back on that memory, I think back of just being in the stick it of just like really good movies. Now, Inland Empire is obviously an outlier.

Like as much as I like Zodiac, like Zodiac is not Inland Empire. You know, like it's just, Inland Empire is just doing something completely different. Sure. The movie that I saw just about a week after I saw Inland Empire comes the closest to the experience I had watching Inland Empire, comes the closest to the experience I had watching Inland Empire is this fucking Romanian movie. Did you ever see a Romanian quote unquote comedy called The Death of Mr. Lazar Rescue?

Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that one. That was hot shit though. It was when Romanian cinema, it was after four months, three weeks, two days. Right, the Romanian way, for sure. Christie Piu, I'm bad on pronouncing Romanian names, but it is one of those things, right,

where they're like, there's a great new comedy out of Eastern Europe, and I'm like, hmm, is it two and a half hours long? And you're gonna be like, I'm not a guy. Is it two and a half hours of an elderly alcoholic dying in real time as he is kicked out of multiple hospital emergency rooms? It's basically, I mean, the people in Romania

are like rolling in the hot hills. This is the best shit I've seen in years. Why is this funny? It's bureaucracy refusing to let this guy die. It's making fun of institutions, right? Another great experience of just going into a movie cold. I saw it in Chapel Hill. There's an art and indie cinema that was actually started

by my old high school English teacher, Bruce Stone, it's called the Chelsea and it's still in operation and you could go there and just like, and watch all these funky, like I saw Akira there when Akira came out, I saw The Vanishing there when The Vanishing was first released, speaking of another great feel good movie. Yeah, the end's really happy.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it was like, yeah, there's a new comedy out of Romania, The Death of Mr. Lazarescu. So I went in cold. It's like Inland Empire, it's a long movie. Yeah, it's two and a half hours long. And at the end of it, an older guy on the front row literally yelled out,

that's it? He was so pissed. He was like, yeah, that's it, he died. Like it was in the title, you can't be disappointed. Like you're not getting your money back. These spoilers. I's it. He died like it was in the title You can't be disappointed like you're not getting your money. I think it actually from what I remember that movie It ends with them being like, okay, we're finally gonna do like a brain operation on you and the movie's like well leave it off here We're gonna we're gonna let you guys go now and you're just like no, I think he dies on a stretcher I think it's a he's definitely on the table. I can't remember. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it is in the title that he dies So, you know, don't be.

So my memory of Inland Empire is coupled with my memory of just being like, what a great year for movies. Like I like movie movies that end on a bummer note. I thought death of Mr. Lazaruscu was fun. Like I don't need to see it again. But you know, it's like, if you saw that recent movie from Romania called

Do Not Expect Too Much From the End of the World, did you see that? Fucking awesome. Yeah Yeah another two and a half hour movie absolutely an absolute grind Bucharest that was Very funny very bleak Romanian comedy. Yeah, that one I think is at least short Yeah, I don't know what the rule is about Eastern European films needing to be very long. So you saw in Lindenpire in this beautiful theater. I saw it in this beautiful, empty, almost empty theater.

I went in just being like, oh, David Lynch has a new movie and that's all I knew. And I just remember it as just like a great experience. Like rewatching it was interesting. I just remember it as just like a great experience. Like re-watching it was interesting. I had misremembered a lot of the movie and I'd obviously forgotten a lot of it. It's been 17 years, but there's some, you know, the shot of Laura Dern running towards the camera

on that outdoor path and then he closed up on her face and she's got this agonizing grimace that's really her over lit. My memory of that night is seeing her face on a fucking, it was like one of the, it's like one of the biggest things I've ever seen, if that makes sense. The, the, the hugeness of her emotion

and seeing it on a big, huge screen. I just remember being just like absolutely like, I don't know, it was just like really intense. Then the other thing I remember is the credit sequence with Sinner Man and just a feeling of absolute relief and euphoria and covarseness. There is a huge relief to the credits in the theater because it is an incredibly long movie

and it is quite punishing at times. And the ending is fun and the music is so good. And yeah, there's just that sense of like, okay, I can kind of turn my brain back into low power mode a little bit. I've been straining, especially the first time you see this movie, I think you're like, I've been strained to kind of keep all these

place-mitting and try and think about what they are while another part of my brain is like, don't worry about it, just soak it in or whatever. But if you're watching a movie, you can't help but try to grasp a narrative, I think. Absolutely. Unless you're very, very used to like avant-garde cinema where you're like, oh yeah, sure, sure, sure.

I'll just bathe in it. I breeze early in this series, we've recorded almost all the episodes up until this point, basically all of them, but they haven't come out yet, so I just want to inform you, Sims made a joke in maybe the Eraserhead episode that his glib analysis for all David Lynch movies, when people try to unlock them, was just gonna be,

it's about a guy who loses his keys. It's clear what this movie's about. It's a guy who lost his keys. Like, that's my jokey, like, you know, yeah. Like, you have the line that we- I put the evidence together here, and this represents the keys, this represents the guy, this represents him losing them.

There are two stories in all of human history. Guy loses his keys, guy finds his keys. That's basically Sims' bit. I just wanna point out, he's been proven somewhat correct maybe four times across this series, two minutes and 12 seconds into this movie, a couple, a man and a woman in silhouette,

subtitled in Polish. We don't really have our bearings yet. Face is blurred out, interestingly. Start having an argument about I don't have the key. Yep, that's true. Like, four of these movies do involve... Mulholland Drive has key imagery. ...finding losing keys.

Yeah, he's into keys. It's gonna be some key stuff. You're not wrong. There is a lot of keys. Passageways and portals, I mean, that's obviously like one of his recurring motifs and obsessions. You had your line on, I think, the Spirited Away episode where you said that you think all movies are puzzles or dreams, and it's a thing we cite a lot and think about a lot on this show.

And I think what- Well, not all movies, but like movies that you sit with that you, you know what I mean? Like- Flubber is a puzzle, you know, Missed in Any Progressive is a dream. The ones you ruminate on, like you think about, right? Like, can they be, can it be solved?

Like, is it about finding the solution or just like being in a feeling? Isn't what's interesting about Lynch that he kind of makes films that are simultaneously puzzles and dreams? Well, that's why I think Mulholland Drive is in the pocket. Yeah. Because that's in the sweet spot.

It's the best version of that. Because you can watch it. You can have fun with it as a puzzle or not. You can watch it both ways. Right. Inland Empire, I think you can't solve it all the way. I mean, this is the reason that I've really come to love this movie is I think part of it was that,

you know, it was like improvised. Like he didn't really have a script. Like he was just like, And we can talk about that. I mean, we should crack open the dossier, but I watched this movie last night for the first time with the like, I'm not gonna try to solve this because I understand the way he made it.

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. He perhaps is not as intentionally designed with a simple codex in his mind. I think there is still a sort of story you can pluck out of Inland Empire. But it's sort of like Mohan Drieber, you don't have to do that. At the very end, I suddenly had to read on it.

Sorry, I feel like I interrupted you. No, no. The thing you were about to say about not trying to solve this movie or whether it is solvable. Well, I mean, the solution is in the posters. It's like a woman in trouble. Yeah. Like what more information did?

That's the David Fitzpatrick, right. Yeah. Of like, there will be an emotion at the center of the story I'm telling you that will get through to you no matter how it's being communicated. And a performance that is so locked in that even if the actor herself does not really understand what movie she's in or what scene she's playing in.

There's a quote where she's like, I can't wait to see this movie and figure out what the fuck I was doing. She talked about her and Justin Theroux and just kind of be like, what do you think this movie is about? But the difference is that she's in almost every shot. Well, no, she's not.

She's not in quite a lot of it, actually. She's in a lot of it. Of course, it's a big, crazy performance. Yes. But it was funny in the time. It is so emotionally grounded that you kind of stay locked into whatever she's playing at that moment. That the movie became this kind of like early internet meme

because David Lynch rented a cow and went on a street and did an Oscar campaign for Laura Dern. And people were like, in a way she should get an Oscar nomination. She has like 40 Oscar clips. She delivers monologues. She does accents. She cries. She dies. Like, and the same time people were like, can you please be serious?

No Oscar voter is going to respond to this movie. Um, but, uh, it was, it was such a thing at the moment where I feel like his Oscar campaign became more famous than the movie. Oh yeah, totally. In a certain way, despite not getting her nomination that she was never going to get, it has proven more effective than most Oscar campaigns and that we all remember the campaign. It's like that and the fucking Melissa Leo, I'm buying out ads myself that say consider.

Those are the two for your consideration campaigns that people still talk about. And they're the two times that people went crazy, right? That they were just like, fuck your model of how you do this. And good for them. I'm doing for my kids. Melissa Leo, I totally support that.

Go for it, yeah. And David Lynch doesn't get the nomination he wants. No, but he got attention. Yeah. And he knows how to get, all right. Yeah, we have research on the film wants. But he got attention. Yeah. And he knows how to get... All right, yeah, I will. We have research on the film, so I will. Right, okay.

Crack Open Our Dossier, yes. Mulholland Drive, of course, came out in 2001. And David Lynch doesn't really have any plans for another movie. After that, he is much more interested in the internet. Mm. And his... Doing his dumb land. Right, his own website.

Yeah. Maybe starting his own television station is something he talks about. He starts David Lynch dot com and for ten dollars a month people will remember this. You would get his daily weather reports. Something called Out Yonder where he and his son Austin would talk to each other. I'm not sure I've ever seen those. I've definitely seen the weather reports. Of course. Blue skies and golden sunshine. He would speed run levels of Sonic and Knuckles.

Dumbland, which we talk about a little bit on our, do you remember Dumbland? It was sort of an animated, crudely animated thing about dumb people. Dumbland feels very easy, actually. Yeah, right. I get it confused with the comic he had that never changed. The angriest dog in the world or whatever it's called where it's the same art every single time

Yeah, something called head with a hammer. Oh, yeah, I remember that which is sort of like an office drone Satire something called blue Bob, which was a blues industrial blues album. He made with the guitarist John Neff Jesus Christ I mean, it's David Lynch industrial blues and He was almost like doing an early version of a Patreon sort of idea. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. You pay your subscription, here's all my stuff. Yeah.

Is where all of it will go. In 2002, he released Rabbits, which is probably the most famous thing that came out of all of this famous quote unquote, which footage of which of course is in the Inland Empire. We talk about it that on our short film episode as well. We were seeing Rabbits. I've only seen it in the Inland Empire. We talk about that on our short film episode as well. Have you ever seen Rabbits? I've only seen it in the Inland Empire.

And so, you know, you've got Scott Coffee, Laura Herring and Naomi Watts in rabbit suits doing the strange sitcom, and they are in the rabbit suits. Oh, wow. Confirmed. Whoa, really? It's really them?

That's cool. Laura Herring- I mean, if you're gonna do it, do it. Like, that's what's so wonderful about him, right? Just fucking, yeah, yeah. Laura Herring. I mean, if you're going to do it, do it. Like that's what's so wonderful about him. Right. Just fucking yeah. Yeah. Laura Herring said her approach was I closed my eyes and I followed his

instructions like, uh, David Lynch.com shut down, uh, in the mid two thousands. It's classic second.com bubble. He did. Yes. He did keep up the weather reports sporadically and they sort of still exist. Um, but he, he said, you can't charge people for a site you don't update all the time.

So I lost interest in it. Would that others would take the same lesson. Can I say he was quick to figure out the grind that does in a lot of people. Right. And then he went from internet to the most analog form of generating creativity, walking and running into Laura Dern,

his new neighbor. He hadn't seen her in a while. He was just dating Billy Bob Thornton, apparently. And they ran into each other on Yon Street, just walking around. And they were like, you know, we should do something together. Are you serious?

That's how this happened? Because like, what would the last thing she'd have been Are you serious? That's how this happened? I am not kidding. Because like, what would the last thing she'd have been with him? Like, wild at heart, right? Yeah. It had been ten years. More than ten years. I just want to quickly... Oh, and Blue Velvet. I've seen Blue Velvet.

Oh, yeah. Of course. I figured you would have said it. Don't want to spend time on this. I just want to quickly just jump back and circle a thing that I think people forget, which is that Billy Bob Thornton left Lord Dern for Angelina Jolie. Yeah, he was dating some really fancy folks. In that crazy, whatever it was,

18 months, two years of the Billy Bob Angelina thing, the quiet narrative was, and Laura Dern is sad. Right, right, right, that he had dumped her, yes. Do you want to know something really crazy that I remember about Billy Bob Thornton? I think about this so often on Fresh Air with Terry Gross, the interview show.

She once interviewed him and he said, he was like, yeah, he was like, I really get freaked out by old furniture. Like I can't buy antique furniture or secondhand furniture. It like freaks me out. It really disturbs me. I have to buy new furniture. I think about that all the time.

I believe he- Do you think there's a point at which his furniture becomes too old for him and has to be sucked out? Yeah, right, exactly. Anyway. I believe he has held up film productions, if they set dress.

The thing about him is his phobias and hangups are complete and unbreakable. Right, yeah. And there are many of them. It's not an affectation. But I know the antique one like carries over into all aspects of his life. I love that. They ran into each other and they're like, we should do something together.

So David Lynch is like, let me just film you doing some stuff. And she says she did tell her agent at CAA, I'm going to do this. And her agent was like, what's he paying you? And Lynch said, well, the Internet rate is $100 and so he paid her $100. And they shot this lengthy monologue, which is basically lots of it is in the film,

which is her talking, they're called the Mr. K monologues in the film, but it's her when she's talking with the Southern accent recounting these things to the spectacled man. One of the actually creepiest characters in the film, but it's her when she's talking with this sort of southern accent recounting these things to the spectacled man. One of the actually creepiest characters in the movie. Yeah, he's pretty creepy. That performance is so unsettling.

He is. Of the guy behind the desk. It's all shot in his painting studio, which they made a sort of set inside of. And she started speaking and they stopped twice once for an airplane once to reload the camera Just apart from that. They just did long like 45 minute takes but we should emphasize They were not reloading the camera with film because this movie is not shot on film No, you you love to come on for movies that were shot on

Yeah, packed machines. Yes Um careful. What are you looking up? Eric Crary, who plays Mr. K. Yes. Is kind of a Monte Montgomery situation. Right. He's a film producer, right? Here are the titles he held on this film, Inland Empire. Okay? He, of course, functions as an actor playing the role of Mr. K.

He also was associate producer. He also was production supervisor. He also was camera operator at times. He was part of the construction team. This is, but this is how all movies should be made. It's certainly just like, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, is the camera supervisor just someone who's like, Hey,

could you turn it on? I'm like, make sure there's no film in that camera and make sure that thing looks like absolute garbage. He was Mary Sweeney's assistant on Mulholland drive. Yes. Right. Okay. So you're like, here's his like, he's just in the world.

Longtime partner, creative collaborators assistant, who then he's like, I'm working on a new thing, I don't really know what it is yet. Can you come and be the person Laura Dern monologues to? And also as the project grows, he starts putting them in all these different places. They do this and producer J.S. Singh recounts that Lynch afterwards was just like,

what if this was a movie? And was just very excited. And so. 2006 still a time where a lot of people would look at that and go, well, what we should do is reshoot this on film. In a proper sense. Never going back to film. Yeah.

Never going back to film. My biggest cultural memory of this movie, having not seen it until last night, but remembering reading reviews and interviews at the time, was that he kept on referring to, and I don't know if this is in the dossier, the digital camera as my beautiful little ugly thing. Right.

That he was in love with like... We'll talk about it, but he could have shot this on higher quality digital film. It was available to him. He shot on very low quality. He liked that it was ugly in a way. It looks so, it just makes, it looks forbidden. Like it looks like you shouldn't be watching it.

It's perfect. So he starts writing pages. Jeremy Alter, who's a location manager on Lost Highway, starts helping him type pages up and stuff. And they would just sort of sporadically shoot things. They refer to Jeremy Irons coming on board as the moment from when the film shifts from a project they're working on to a film.

Like Jeremy Irons, I guess, makes them all be like, I guess we should come correct and act like this is a feature, not just weird David Lynch shit. And his scenes are a little more structured. Yeah, and his performance is completely naturalistic as opposed to everybody else who's acting like they're in a dream. And when he showed up, when I rewatched it for the second time last week,

he was one of the things I'd forgotten about. I was like, what the fuck is Jeremy Irons doing? He's lost. Like, what is he doing here? Not to mention Mary Steenvirgin and just all these other... William H. Macy basically reprising his role from Seabiscuit for one shot. Yep. There's more of that on the, like they filmed plenty of,

like that's the whole thing. They're just filming stuff. David Lynch insisted that he could smoke at any location where he was shooting. So they had to find strange locations to film. Because it's the 2000s, smoking is going out of vogue. Like smoking in public places is going out of vogue. He would do things like say like,

hey Jeremy, write this down, I need six black dancers, a blonde Eurasian with a monkey on her shoulder, a lumberjack sawing wood, Natasha Kutty, a tattooed person. The credits, the closing credits. He would basically just be like, see if you can find this, this, this. Well, like a past and future guest, a friend of the show, Drew McQueenie,

messaged us some months ago when Lynch won March Madness and told us that he's in the special thanks for this movie. I don't know, is it one of the scenes that's in the film or is it in the- I believe so. I couldn't identify which one it is, but that he got a call from his friend who was working in some department on this movie and was like, do you still have an empty room

in your apartment? And he's like, yeah, my roommate moved out two days ago. I haven't found like a sub letter yet. And he's like, we'll be there in like three hours. Can we smoke in it? 20 minutes. 20 minutes. He shows up, I have the text here, and he's with David Lynch.

David Lynch is like, can I use your room to shoot my new film? Daru says, yes, of course. And that night, so not even like later. Right. He thinks like, oh, this is a location scout. You'll get back to us in two months. You'll come here. Not on this one. He shows up with Mary Sweeney, a cameraman, Laura Dern, four young European women, shoots

for five or six hours. And after that, would call Drew every few weeks and call, ask him what Drew says was just random questions about things. Wait, David Lynch would call him? Yes, cool. It's cool. And that's why he has a special thing. Yes. I mean, Dern always said like, I wake up every morning and go, I wonder what we're going to shoot. And I'd like arrive on set and he delivered me pages he'd written the night before. But also that's how like all of the department heads,

if those even are really proper titles on this one, are processing it. And then everyone in real time is sort of like, great. Like it's a movie made like it was chopped or something, you know, where it's like, here are the ingredients. Now figure out how to put this together in the next six hours. Right. Shake it all up in this big metal bowl. As Lynch says, I never saw any hole, W-H-O-L-E. I saw plenty of holes, H-O-L-E-S, but I didn't really worry.

I would get an idea for a scene and shoot it, get another idea and shoot that. I didn't know how they would relate. Production lasted about three years. Initially, it was self-funded. At a certain point, he goes to Studio Canal and he's like, I'm making this. It's gonna be vaguely this.

And they gave him a few million dollars He's obviously shooting it on a Sony PD 150, but what's also big here? He is credited as the cinematographer. I use a lot of the film. He is physically the one operating the camera He is a cinematographer editor and composer like you know a lot of his weenie Obviously usually did his editing. And he said, in this case, like, there's no script to go off of. There's no order to put these things in. I was the only one who could edit it. Because I was the only one who had any sense.

Like, of looking at the footage and trying to figure out what it meant to me. But I think the whole point of the process of this movie is him just being like, how do I basically reduce this art form to like pencil on paper? Like even from the time he's at AFI, it's like, well, you need a crew of a certain size and you need film, it has to be processed and there's a structure and all of this sort of stuff. You know, like film schools do not just teach you

the creative aspects and the language of film, but they also try to train you in like, how to behave like a proper film production. They try to teach you how to be like upright and upstanding and have everything covered. And this feels like him at this point in his sixties being like, how do I turn filmmaking into something as direct as my painting? Where it's like, I'm just moving. I'm holding the camera. I'm writing stuff. I'm handing it to people. I'm cutting it, I'm just, like, it's whatever I fucking feel like in the moment.

The way he talks about it is also how Soderbergh talks about it, this, like, this liberation of, like, I don't have to take all day setting something up. Like, we, you know, we're no longer bound to, you know, he calls film a dinosaur in a tar pit. Much like Soderbergh, he now has kind of gotten over it. It's not like he doesn't like digital anymore, but now he's like, ah, film's nice,

and yeah, I might use it again, who knows? They kind of get nostalgic, I think. But there's something liberating, I think, of just like, oh, I just put the camera here and we're ready to go. Liberating is the word. But Soderbergh is so often working with writer-collaborators,

working with some kind of like pretty fixed, honed piece of text. And then he likes the challenge of like, how do I simplify the workday around this, the process, the language of the movie itself. Lynch is also like generating the language in real time. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the reasons the movie is so exciting is it's so intuitive, everything about it, right?

The shooting of it, the writing of it, such as it is, and then the editing of it, obviously. So in a way, you know, David Lynch is all into meditation and all this kind of stuff. I haven't heard that. And this feels like the closest he gets to, I don't know what you call it, like a flow state or whatever.

And he did it for a whole movie, which was like bonkers. Over three years. On and off, obviously. Right, yeah. Yes, he was- But I can't remember another movie that I've seen, I can't remember another feature film that I've seen in a real movie theater

that is so intuitive. No, I don't think there's another film quite like this, and a lot of it is like the process and him having a reputation. Right. I don't know. Those could make them right. People could trust him to do that. That he had like, in certain ways, it feels like this would be a lot of

people's weird first film they made. Yeah, exactly. I think before they figure out how to hone their thing. This is also just, this is basically an avant-garde film and it is the only avant-garde film a lot of people have seen because they saw it because it was a David Lynch film with David Dern in it. Like famous people are in it and stuff.

And it's kind of got a foot in each world a little bit, versus like something you would see at a art museum or at a, you know, at the anthology film archives. But that's why it's so damn good. Sure. Because movies always have to have a screenplay. These fucking movies. And like screenplays are great, but it's like. They're for nerds.

No, but seriously, don't you kind of think, don't you kind of get sick of it after a while? Like. Of course. Like a good movie and it has a screenplay. Oh, the script is so good. Oh, I loved how they resolved act to bad luck, you know, or this character's theme was, bleh. Sounds like you're doing a direct impression of this podcast. But you know what I mean. Yeah, I know. I loved how they resolved act to bad luck, or this character's theme was, blah. You know, like-

Sounds like you're doing a direct impression of this podcast. But you know what I mean. Like I like good screenplays, they're a lot of fun. But there's something they make movies really good. But to go, I mean, this is the thing about like, to go to a big theater and sit in the dark

at this massive screen in an almost empty, I remember it as almost empty theater and just watch a terrifying dream and knowing on some level, this is inexhaustible because I will never be able to solve it because it wasn't made with that part of the brain or something like this is intuitive. This is pure emotion.

And there's just like, you can fit, you can solve it. Like, oh, she is the Polish prostitute or oh, the family in the house wasn't her family, quote unquote, you know, and by her, I mean either Sue playing Nikki or Nikki Blake, who cares? Just to sit in that space and be like, like- He really lost his keys. I mean, it's just like, like. Really lost his keys. I mean, it's just like, it's so wonderful. It's like, like David Lynch is just doing his thing.

It's so awesome that I'm sitting in a fucking movie theater, just watching David Lynch do his thing. Well, and I think this is the breakthrough of the technology changing, right? Is that like, there was a baseline that a movie cost, the amount of crew people you needed on set. You could not afford to be intuitive because yeah, correct. Yeah, exactly. You need to hone your ideas even in a movie that is abstract or even in a film that is avant-garde. You need to come kind of correct, get some clear plan and sense of how to get all of this done.

And he's like, not just rethinking the language of how the movie looks, but how he operates on a day-to-day basis. And we've talked so much across the series about his whole thing of like his routines around creativity, where he's like, I have to be creative every day. I eat the same thing every day, so that leaves space for my brain to wander.

And then there has to be some expression of it, you know? Whether I'm painting every day or things like the weather, which people were like, what is this? Is this a bit? And it's like, no, it's all part of the just like, I need to do stuff and maybe something interesting comes out of it. Maybe it doesn't, maybe it's shared, maybe it isn't.

But like the gears operate. And then it felt like for him, every three or four years he'd be like, and now here's a movie. This is like a finished work. I do a lot of stuff on a daily basis, but these are the works that are real concentrated, focused, resolved in some way, even if they feel ambiguous.

And then this is the opposite. This is him making a movie out of basically his daily routine of creative exploration. Laura Dern famously told the BBC before it's premiered at the Venice Film Festival, I don't know who I was playing and I still don't know. I'm looking forward to seeing the film tonight to learn more. She references Catherine de Nouve in Repulsion as a big influence

in terms of playing a dismantled person is how she puts it. Oh, that's interesting. she's sort of like, I think David was giving me several characters, they may be aspects of the same person or the same vibe or whatever. And repulsion has that same kind of like inscrutable reality vibe. You're in someone's troubled mind

and you can't tell what's real or not. Justin Theroux says, Inland Empire is close to a spiritual opus as you're gonna get. It's powerful. It's got all these inexplicably unforgettable images. A character standing behind a tree hiding a Christmas light, for instance, so strange and yet you remember it. David! Mm-hmm?

Let's be honest. Can we please be honest? Go ahead. Can we stop lying and talking past each other? Can you look me in the eyes for a second? No. Yes. Please. Okay, what's up? And really be here with me.

Be in this moment, David. Listen to what I'm saying and the way I am saying it. What are you saying? What most people really want for the holidays is to see their favorite people more often. I won't believe it. No, you keep telling me that people want V-books. Or that they want socks.

No, socks are good. You keep listing material objects and I'm telling you we need to cut past that and be honest that this year the best gift you can give, besides plane tickets, is an Aura digital picture frame. Yes, it's the number one digital photo frame as named by Wirecutter. Very smart and easy to use.

You can upload unlimited photos and videos right from your phone to the frame. You can order online and preload it. So when it gets, if you give it to someone as a gift, right out of the box, it's gonna have whatever photos you wanna put on there. First day of school, holidays, vacations, silly photos, right? Anything you want to do, old family photos,

you can tailor it to whoever you're giving the gift to, put kind of cool photos onto it, comes out of the box, they can, as you say, see their favorite people. This is the thing, I know from picture frames, you give your grandma a photo of you, she goes, oh, this is nice day three She's walking by it. She's hitting the side. She's like this again Rerun the same old picture or frames is kinetic. It's a living text. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely, and I gotta tell you I smell real bit potential Oh, I got the bitch you could do with these or frames you could preload a bunch of nice photos

Oh gotcha with something sneaky. You know, sometimes you're taking a family photo and people go, let's try one silly one. And you do it and people are like, well, we're never gonna use that one. Aura frames, you can throw it into the rooster. Do a bunch of pictures of worms. You can do whatever you want.

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Download Dragon Ball Legends today, available for free on both iOS and Android devices. So they shot a lot in L in LA, a little bit of Paris, and a lot in Lodz, I think is how you say it, Polk. That's all the Polish stuff, yeah. Lynch fell in love with it. He went there typing photographs, some abandoned factories, which sounds like something that David Lynch would do, and really liked the weather, the raininess,

these big electrical plants. It has a Pittsburgh vibe, right? David's very interested in death. It's like an old city. Faded industrial stuff. But then it's got all this industrial stuff too. Probably has like electrical homes in the evening that he can buy. He loves electricity. I mean, yeah, he's a good sound designer.

Have you ever been to Poland? I have never been to Poland. It is unbearably sad. Whoa. Cool. Really? Yeah, yeah. In a way that's like kind of fascinating and profound. I mean I I am Predominantly Polish and heritage as am I but is not a thing really? Yes. Well, I'm my mom's side. Not my dad's side I'm 50% Polish Scots and French or whatever. My family has like no sense of like Polish pride No, they left Right, that's the thing. It was like we moved on. It wasn't a country. Well, it might have been a country. Yeah. Wait, what makes it sad? Just. I don't know how to verbalize

it. I do think this comes across in the movie. I was trying to crack why Poland and maybe it is just he went there and started filming there and then was like well And I guess into Polish characters or whatever There there is this sort of like cosmic sadness I feel like I had heard people say shit about like this city is still haunted by its past or whatever And I'd always be like you're being metaphysical. That's not a fucking thing. It's a city People are sad like 9-eleven New York felt sad after that because the people were sad. I don't think New York still feels haunted in like the ground in that same kind of way. And then I went to Poland when I was like 20 or 21 to Warsaw, and I was like,

this place has like ghosts in it. Like it just, and there's something about you can feel in the way it was like destroyed and rebuilt. Right. What remains of old Poland and what has been rebuilt both feel reflective of like this unspeakable horror that happens in the middle of these two points. And it just feels like there's a fucking heaviness there, which I swear extends to like the air. Let's talk about Inland Empire. The only other thing about the production is obviously just because of the digital

film, he could shoot incredibly long takes. It meant he had a mountain of footage that he himself edited over the course of six months in Final Cut Pro. And the resulting thing is the film Inland Empire, which was released in theaters. thing is the film Inland Empire, which was released in theaters. Not like wide, but like was shown to Americans and took some people by surprise, I would say. This movie has its own Twin Peaks the Missing Pieces type thing. It's what also happened. It's more things that happened.

Right, that's it. Yeah, but there's an additional 75 minutes of stuff. I've never watched them. Me neither. Yes, it's on the disc. So is the movie that I saw in 2007, the same version that I watched last week on iTunes or however we watched it?

He did an incredibly- He made some minor changes. He did a fascinating, incredibly complicated and bizarre restoration process for this movie. I read about that where it's like, make it look good and then make it look like shit again or something. They had to use AI tech to clean up and then read filthy. I can find this. It was weird. We will post on social media the actual document and the wording when this film had its re-release in theaters

and the criterion release that explains it. But basically it was like there was a certain amount of upscaling that happened at the time relative to 2006 technology to give it a little more detail so it would look a little less shitty projected on a huge screen. But that was an artificial sharpening and a more limited sort of like, I don't know.

So I can say, the important thing is, can I say that I had the authentic Inland Empire experience because I saw it on a big screen in 2007. Correct. And half the time I couldn't tell what the fuck I was looking at. What he's done since then is they like dumbed it down and they went through a process to take away the sharpening from the theatrical release. And they downscaled it to SD. To the blurriness of the original footage. And then they used more advanced AI sharpening.

AI was like, I've never been asked to do something like this before. But he's obviously not trying to make it look like film. He was just like, I need to make it a little easier to delineate between shapes on screen. So, yes. And it was like seven passes back and forth to, yeah. I did see this restoration at the IFC Center,

which to me is like where you need to see a David Lynch movie. Cause the IFC Center is such like a hallowed museum of like early 2000s New York film culture. I still like going there to see anything. It's a totally nice place, Bob. But you know what I mean? Like that reel they play in front,

do you know what I'm talking about? At the IFC Center, they play this reel of like, oh, like directors come here to talk about their movies and it's so much the same reel from like 2006 of like, you know, Spike Lee discussing Passing Strange or whatever. It's like they've never updated it. It's sort of adorable. I like places like that.

Yeah, me too. But I also feel like original run this movie played for like what felt like a straight year at IFC and even the restoration release felt like it played for a very long time. I think it's just regularly playing there. Honestly, it kind of has never been gone. It's a big IFC movie in a weird way. More than his other films. Wait, so when you saw it the other day, did you see it on the theater? I saw it last night. I projected it here on the screen directly behind you in the office. Okay, alright. What'd you think?

I will admit, it is a slightly hard movie to talk about, having seen only once. I felt like, some of it is inscrutable. I was very engaged by parts of it. I was like, I have no idea how to talk about this, and then truly in the last 30 seconds, I was like, before the end credits, I was like, oh, I think I have a handle on this.

So what's your take? I don't know if my take is super reductive and dumb, but I think it's truly his movie, and it makes sense that this is what he would get to as the through line from the process of how he made it, which just starts from, I should film Laura Dern doing stuff, right? I think this is his movie of being like, what is acting? You know, like

certain directors will talk about like, I am mystified by the process of watching great actors work. Directors who are up there, close with them, holding their hands, and are still like there is some weird supernatural conjuring where they're able to pull something from the depths of whatever it is. Their subconscious, their memory, their research, whatever it is, right? And here's like David Lynch going through these experiments of filming Laura Dern doing stuff. And he's able to give her shit without context. He's able to pivot wildly, give her no prep time, and somehow, without fail, she constantly drops into something that feels incredibly rich,

specific, honest, earned, deep. And I think as the movie goes on, he's starting to like try to make sense of like, what is this? I understand my own creative process and my conversation with my subconscious, my unconscious, you know, and trying to get to a flow state and everything. But the idea of physically embodying that and making it something that feels real enough that it passes people's bullshit test in this fake medium, right? Which is sort of trying to collapse the wall

of the medium in real time. When you get that final shot before the end credits of her sitting back on the couch, it's like in this Mulholland driveway, this whole movie has almost been a contemplation of how to figure out this character. And you saying, like, she is the Polish sex worker, right? It's like, well, part of it is, okay, she thinks she's just having to engage with this text,

and if it's about a relationship, then does she actually need to sleep with the guy? And then she finds out, oh, this is actually based on an older film, and there's a Polish curse connected to it. So then she's going back to the original text. Gives me goosebumps. I wanna talk about that part. But then she's trying to figure out Polish history. It's the way you'll hear certain actors and sometimes it feels kind of foofy and academic

and you're like, is this actually necessary? Of like, well, of course I had to read 10 books about Poland because the character's Polish, even though it's a present day film or whatever. The feeling of the lines being blurred, of like, you think you're watching an hour of this woman's life decay, and then that, at her absolute lowest point,

is followed by Jeremy Irons being like, and that's a wrap on, we're done with her scenes, and now back to her. Like, the whole movie is just like, what is this weird fucking thing that some people are able to do? That is such an interesting take. It is, I would have never thought about any of that,

maybe because I'm not an actor, but I will- That's my fear is that I'm running it through the prism of my own experience and whatever. No, but that makes sense. Cause I just think of like the opening of the couch, right? Before she gets the monologue from Grace Zabriskie, this thing that's also implanted in her head that sort of then becomes like part of the couch, right, before she gets the monologue from Grace Zabriskie, this thing that's also implanted in her head that sort of then becomes like part of the process

and the way that actors will talk about like, you know what, this weird other thing happened to me when I was filming and it wouldn't seem like that had anything to do with the project, but it kind of got worked into my performance. It's like, oh, that story starts to become a thing. The whole thing is like, I have this exciting audition. And it's almost like- Yeah, she really wants

to get the role. Right, this woman just sitting kind of like, cross-legged on a couch, just thinking about like, how do I get my head around this character? How did the movie make you feel? Uncomfortable, I would say. Sure. Yeah, confused andfortable. I would say. Sure. Yeah, confused and uncomfortable.

I... A lot of it is what you said, the sort of cosmic hollowing out that I think he's able to capture better than anyone in this feels like a movie that is made up almost entirely of those moments. I think it has like real hammer blow versions of it, but I also think that's kind of a through line on this movie, almost on a scene to scene basis more than most of his films. What were you about to say, Sam? Sorry.

I don't know. Can't remember. Okay. Ben, have you seen it before? No. No. Yeah, what'd you think? How did it make you feel?

He's fucked up. No, it made me feel confused, but I love, throughout all of his work, the dreamlike nature of it. And so once you can just kind of let go and lock in, I found myself getting really lost in the world, but also kind of in my own just internal interior worlds and thinking about dreams I've had and and and recurring motifs that have keep coming up throughout my life

you know again dreams and imagery and and just it's it's easy to space out and not feel like you're losing out on too much. But that's also, I think, kind of a cornerstone of certain avant-garde cinema, and especially avant-garde cinema that's gone at feature length or even extreme lengths. I mean, this is his longest movie. Oh, must be. Right? Has to be. Yeah, I would think so, yeah. I've invoked this before,

but I remember reading this review of Goodbye Dragon Inn, a fantastic film, but a film that famously ends with an eight minute unbroken shot of an empty movie theater. Yes. Oh, that sounds good. I apologize if I may. You would love this movie.

Have you ever seen Tsai Ming-Liang? I never heard of him. I'm sorry, that's why I got that. He's a Malaysian filmmaker, but he's mostly a Taiwan new wave guy. The hole, have you ever seen the hole? No. You would love it.

Yeah, you should dig in. Check it out. But it's a movie about a movie theater on its last night of operation, playing an old martial art epic. I gotta say this, one of the things that David Lynch does so well is, well, we'll talk about this when I talk about the third time I watch this movie, but images of movie

theaters in movies. Yes. Oh, yeah. It gives me such a shimmering, uncanny feeling. Well, so this Goodbye Dragon is made up almost entirely of that, right? Yeah, I gotta see it. And it's like sparsely attended and it's all these employees that has maybe 20 lines of dialogue. Oh, I'm in. A lot of it is watching the movie in

the movie. There's a real movie from the distance of an empty theater. It's so funny because, right, like I was like this young film fan. I saw the whole thing. I saw what time is it there and I was like, I'm so pumped for this guy. I'm now on board. And then Goodbye Dragon really felt like him being like, oh, I'm even a little bit considered now you You are about you are in for it's his kind of limiting distancing experience, right? And I have come around to that movie, but I remember the time being like, huh? I don't know what to make of that one. That one kind of went over my head

Reading this critical discourse around this movie probably happening happening in fucking Time Out New York, and people fighting over it, right? I think maybe two different critics debating it and saying, like, I get the impact of having such an extended, long, final shot of this empty theater, the resonance of it, and now it's over. But is there anything that you get

from the shot being eight minutes that you don't get from the shopping three minutes? What sort of their argument and this person retorts like when something extends to that length? Part of it isn't asking you to engage and just give your full focus to watching it for eight minutes It's what Ben said. It's sort of it becomes about what you think about while that's going on, right? Yeah, very different way of watching and engaging with a movie where you're used to, it's holding your hands and it's begging for your attention. This is saying, what else does this make you think of?

It's the classic, I was curious, Dami quote about like, I like films that put their audience to sleep in the theater. Those are the films I like. I'm not trying to keep you awake, buddy. I'm trying to actually put audience to sleep in the theater. Like those are the films I like. Like I'm not trying to keep you awake, buddy. I'm trying to actually put you to sleep. David. Yep.

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I saw it when it came out, uh, and it had an impact on me and I was so, like, into Mulhollandlland Drive and like David Lynch that I liked it. But I remember sort of emerging with like Laura Dern though. Like what an interesting emotional experience I had with her, right? And then every time I would revisit the film, I would always be like, I really remember the sort of premise of like she kind of gets lost in a movie she's making that's cursed.

And I really remember the ending. And I always forgot that there was like a lot of Polish and a lot of like, a lot, you know, wandering around in like industrial spaces in the middle. And this is the first time, because when I saw the restoration, I was like, a lot of Poland, right? I always forget about the Poles.

This time I was like, I am prepared for all the Polish stuff. I am prepared for the monologues. I am, you know, a- And the whole life with Smithy, the domestic drama going on in the whole life with Smithy, the domestic drama going on in the house inside the soundstage, yeah.

And I really kind of engaged with it a little bit more in a somewhat linear manner of like, right, this is about some sort of curse or recurring, recursive like story that happens to this woman who has an affair and maybe gets murdered by the other woman and you know maybe is sort of being tormented by the other man and like the rabbits are this, the you know the Polish people are this, the lost girl who's watching TV is this.

Like you know it's like we're seeing just different versions and of course the movie version of her is this but also the real version of her seems to be this. Like, you know, it's like, we're seeing just different versions. And of course, the movie version of her is this, but also the real version of her seems to be this. Like, she's always married to this guy, you know, who's this Polish guy. Like, you know. I keep going back to the Twin Peaks, it is happening again thing as such like a key statement for Lynch, and especially his like fixation on the violence that is done to women and the cycles that like support it in society and how they process it that it's like all of this shit is a continuum. Right. Yeah. And I do get the sense in the film that that something has happened at the end to maybe break the cycle that she ends with us.

It ends with us. She destroys some sort of monster, like that crazy thing we see at the end, not just her face, but then the sort of other odd, weeping sort of clown face. Right, yeah, when she shoots the fan, the hypnotist. Right, and then when we're seeing Grace Zabriskie, it feels like, yeah, there has been some shift or some... Oh, I think it's definitely a happy ending.

Right, this is kind of a happy ending. Yeah. And they all dance. And then they all dance to Simriner Man while someone saws a log indoors, normal, which is what I do when I feel like I'm kind of, I remember being- There's something for the day.

I got so amped when the guy sawing the log showed up. I was like, it's all happening. It's like that Ron Paul meme, it's all happening or whatever, Rand Paul or whoever's- It's Ron, Ron is the one who said it's all happening. It's like that Ron Paul meme. It's all happening or whatever, Rand Paul or whoever. It's Ron. Ron is the one who said it was all happening. Oh my God, I got me so excited. Cause the thing about Ron Paul is he does look like a little elf from another dimension.

Rand Paul, you're just kind of like, now I don't want to see that space. Yeah, that's true. Ron Paul looks like a time bandit. Right? Totally. Anyway. The quote I think about when I think about this movie is,

I can't remember who told me this quote, but somebody who had some experience in psychiatry or psychology or something, I was explaining some dream I had had where I was like, I can't remember if we talked about, did we talk on 28 Days Later about how I used to have these recurring nightmares about being attacked by zombies?

I think we did. We must. Right, so I was talking about like, oh, I dreamt I was back in my parents' house and all these zombies showed up and I knew if I opened the door, like, they would tear me apart or whatever. Like, what do you think those zombies represent? And this friend said, the thing you need to know about dreams is everyone in your dream is you. It's all you. And that, for some reason, helps me make sense of Inland

Empire when I'm like, well, wait a minute. Now, in this scene, she's referring to her parents as her parents, and she's like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. is you, it's all you. And that for some reason helps me make sense of Inland Empire when I'm like, well, wait a minute. Now in this scene, she's referring to her husband by the movie name, but in this scene, she's in, you know, it's a woman in trouble. It's alarming though, when you dream of being someone else.

Well, I don't know if you dream, you mean, wait, hold on. Are you saying that you can dream that you're inside somebody else? Yeah. What? Like who? I've had- The Fonz? Here's a great example of a recurring dream. Wait, you mean you're not you in your dream?

I'm someone else. Who are you? Ben, give your example, and then I wanna build on this. So I have this recurring dream that's kind of set in this world that's similar to where Bruce Willis is before he goes back in time in 12 Monkeys. I'm underground and it's this kind of like dirt factory.

And I'm like inhabit this worker who's controlling this equipment, like a crane operator. And, but my job is harvesting potato people. That's the best job. Well, sure, I understand that's not your job in the real world, but how do you know you're not you in the dream? Because I can see myself

and see a reflection of myself and know- You can look in a mirror in a dream and see not your face looking back at you? I have such cinematic dreams. But here's my question, because I'm the same way, Ben. In that moment, don't you go, oh, interesting, I'm this guy in my dream. Like when I dream as other people,

it's like being John Malkovich style. I'm not like them, yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? What the fuck are y'all on about? How can you not be yourself in a dream? It's just you. But this is what I'm saying. It's being John Malkovich where it's like,

I'm inside this body. It's like you. But this is what I'm saying. It's being John Malkovich where it's like, I'm inside this body. It's like watching a movie, but also knowing that like I'm in this spot. So that's the weird wrinkle. You guys thought Inland Empire was weird. This should be your favorite fucking, this should be like watching like Toy Story to you guys. And that's so much crazier than any dream I've ever had. Made it a tree with that one.

But I know I it's the same thing where I'm like, oh, it's interesting that I'm someone else in this dream. I'm thinking that in the dream. You don't have that, right? You don't know what they're talking about. My consciousness is in that other person. I'm perceiving being this other person with all my thoughts and experiences and personality.

So I'm never fully like, of course, I couldn't be someone else entirely because it's gonna be me thinking about it. It's a matter of embodiment. Like, I am in a different person's body right now. I do not have that kind of lucidity, but my dream is as I remember them, and I don't remember my dreams.

We kind of dream like the cobbler, if that makes more sense, that's an easier way to explain it. I don't know what that is. Classic Adam Sandler, Tom McCarthy movie in which a cobbler literally unlocks the ability to walk in another man's shoes by wearing the shoes of his clients.

And he gets to beat him for a couple hours. Yeah, yeah. Won the Razzie, I think, for worst picture. Is this a David Lynch joint? No, my dreams are always the same. It's always just, I have to do something. I keep getting way later distracted by all the weird shit.

You're trying to get the Inland Empire episode down to 90 minutes and somehow it's stretching up? Well, we got, oh, well, we just hit 90 minutes. We just hit 90 minutes. We just hit 90. Fucking nailed that shit. Good job, yeah. Thank you.

So, right, the first chunk of Inland Empire is about an actress named Nikki Grace. Yes, we have other things that we're seeing, such as this hotel room. Well, I mean, you saying you always forget. Do you know what a whore is? That's one of the early lines of dialogue. It is, it's definitely like, it's setting you up for like a chill time, the first stuff.

You saying you always forget how much Polish there is in this movie. It does kick off with it. I'm clocking about 10 minutes until Laura Dern appears. Yeah, I think you're right. You start out with the hallway conversation, then you're in. You start out with an honestly awesome

and haunting title screen with this crazy noise and you're kind of like rubbing your hands together. Some classic Lynch Clankin. Yeah, yeah, truly. The sound design in the opening is great. But then you have like the lost woman watching rabbits on the TV. Like you're in all of that for 10 minutes

before ostensibly the main thread of the movie. If you actually want me to actually have like a synopsis that I can go through, there's an introduction to Axon N, the longest radio play in history, which we occasionally will return to some kind of, you know, these are, like I said, these are all sort of renderings of the same sort of drama of some kind of like betrayal and cuckoldry or whatever. You have, you know, right, this black and white footage of actors blurred out, you know, in this horrible kind of sort of sex worker situation. You have the girl watching rabbits on TV.

And the immediate sense that this is her in the aftermath of something traumatic, that she is watching TV in an attempt to process or at least take her mind off of her right. But then she's seeing rabbits, but she's also seeing Inland Empire. She's seeing like Grace Zabriskie on the screen a little bit. And then you have the rabbit taking two Polish guys to a strange sort of hotel room lobby banquet area. Yeah, big fancy room, a grand room, yeah.

And they talk about an opening and if they understand each other, which is language that the movie uses a lot, like over and over again, and something's going on there. And then we're with Laura Dern and I'm like, okay, great. We're like classic Hollywood setup, movie actress. She's got a new role. Ian Avicromby as a butler.

Like you're like, I get this. We're dealing in archetype. She seems to live in some sort of like incredibly like awful mansion. The Feng Shui in her house is so fucked up. It's like, it's really something. You do kind of get the sense that it's her husband's vibe or aesthetic or like she seems to have married

some kind of- Some weird old money guys. Yeah, or like, you know, guy who's a tycoon of terrible things or something, right? Like, be a... He's a fucking shipping magnate. Yeah, it's like, what's your job? He's like, import, export.

And you're like, oh, okay. And it's awful in there. And like the digital photography kind of enhances it. It makes it look kind of dark and depressive. And like there's curtains and then you see the light coming through, you know, in this like sharp way. It really is air specific too.

It is, yeah. It's so nails. I mean, like the way people are dressed really like brought me back to that time. But the way that that space in particular looks, it just, it looks like what a fancy person thought was like. It must be real. Yeah, totally, yes. Nice and classy, right? Yeah, right. This must be someone's house. Well, it looks like what a fancy person thought was like. It must be real and nice and classy. Right?

This must be someone's house. Well, it's like Queen of Versailles too. Like I feel like this is when they start filming that movie that is documenting someone ruining their life, trying to make a version of a house like this. That's a hundred times bigger. This has to be a real place. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. So they weren't building sets for this fucking movie. It looks like a trashy house in California though, for sure. Someone who has money, but has no taste. Yep. And then luckily, what you want in a David Lynch movie, Grace Zabriskie comes to kind of like cool everyone off.

Yeah. Just really settle you and make you feel like normal and not freaked out at all. Lesson of this movie, never talk to your neighbors. Never invite them into your home. I remember watching this film on TV at one point in my room in college with headphones on and the whole thing where when she's just talking about a folktale and putting a Polish accent and brutal murder, like having to turn the TV off and take a break. That fish eye lens, he's shooting her in a fish eye and then Laura Dern is in a regular lens and then eventually he shoots Dern in the fish eye and then you're like,

oh shit, it's about to pop off. Yeah, it's so great. She does a Lynch trick I really love, which I feel like where she points to the couch and then we're sort of Laura Dern is on the couch with her friends and we've moved forward in time. Yes. Without any transition really.

Yeah. The couch where she winds up at the end of the movie. Indeed. Yep. All the scenes with her and her friends are really funny to me too, because it's like, you know, they are being normal. Yes. Right?

It's just a gossip thing. They're not in a David Lynch. Right, but then the aesthetic of it is so impressive that you're like, what is going, why am I just seeing them chat? Well, that's so much of what I remember the discourse being around this movie when it came out was like, you know, some people, and looking back, it was more positive than I remembered. People were just like, if you're in on Lynch, this is uncut Lynch.

This is the most unbridled Lynch you're ever going to get. We're fucking eating, right? And then the counterpoint was like, I just don't get why it looks so ugly. And this was a thing that was also circling around Michael Mann movies at the time. Yes, Mike Lee, anyone who was trying this stuff. Why would you choose to use something that looks worse? And it was part of like Lynch doing these interviews where he said, my beautiful ugly thing, you know?

And certainly like man talking the same way where it's like, it frees me up. I used to be someone who obsessed over having the light in exactly the right place in these immaculate frames. But there's something that it just becomes so organic now. And I also think- If this thing weighs a pound rather than like a hundred pounds. There's the production advantages.

10 pounds. But I do think that the way this movie looks, it really does to me look like a dream. It looks like how my dreams look, which is a lot of like gray diffuse light. My dreams are also all kind of blurry. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of off.

It looks simultaneously like a snuff film, like we said earlier, like something you truly elicit. But then also when you remember it, when I remember this movie and the palette, it's like remembering a dream because it kind of the lighting reminds me of a dream and the griminess, the murkiness of it is the murkiness of a remembered dream.

I think it really works. Even if he could have shot on a handheld camera that shoots in 4K and looks terrific, this was the right choice, I think. I agree. There's no other way to think about this movie. And there's the weird artifacting and abstraction that happens with this level of DV footage.

It's my limited experience in film school before I dropped out. an abstraction that happens with like this level of DV footage. Sort of my limited experience in film school before I dropped out, was that like, you know, when they talk about film as a medium and people are trying to teach you how to work with it, it's like, here are all these magic tricks where you can do this and suddenly on film it looks like this thing that's a hundred times greater. Right. Right? And video is the opposite where everyone's like, and do this and suddenly on film it looks like this thing that's 100 times greater, right? And video is the opposite where everyone's like,

if you film like this it's gonna look like shit no matter what, you can't get around this. You can't be in any environment with fluorescent lights, you can't do this, you can't do that, right? Like all these things they try to warn you away from that he is kind of barreling head first into because how wrong it ends up looking is able to very cheaply conjure

the kind of feeling and imagery that he used to have to like slave over. Yeah, it's so evocative. Right. Yeah, and he can obviously make like a beautiful movie. Yeah. Kevin has, and I wonder if he made, like if he had made like six more films like this,

would the magic of this film and the way it looks be a little hurt by that? It is what is fascinating, because at the time and the way he did it, you're just sort of like, it's bizarre he didn't go through a phase where he just kept doing the new shit. Yeah, I'm just gonna keep, right,

improvising shit and making weird movies. Even if most of them didn't end up being feature films, if some of them ended up being fucking web series or whatever it is, it's interesting that then there's like kind of a shift and a gap after this. Right, that's why this is not just like him being like, well, I filmed for three years and cut it together. It's like, no, he had eventually a thrust,

you know, of storytelling with it. What were you gonna ask Dave? Did he make a thing on Netflix where like he- Talked to the monkey? Yeah. He was like, he and the monkey were solving crimes or something? He's interrogating the monkey like he make a thing on Netflix where like he's talking to a monkey? Yeah, he was like he and the monkey were like solving crimes or something. He's interrogating the monkey Like he's a cop and the monkey is that a movie. It's a short time Yeah, Netflix bought it at a certain point. It's like he made it independent. He still finance it. It was a big project

He talked about a lot. What did what did Jack do? Yes, or what Jackson? Yeah We covered it on our page. Yes, or what Jack's... Yeah. We covered it on our Patreon. Yeah, it's called What Did Jack Do? He's done a lot of stuff like that over the years for his own website. Like what Rabbits was, it sounds like.

Right, right. And then some things got incorporated and some things kind of just... And then he occasionally will do things like where Dior is like, can you do a commercial for Dior? And he's like, it's gonna be weird. And they're like, great.

But as you said, this is the only time he did this when it started to feel like, is this gonna be weird. And they're like, great. But as you said, this is the only time he did this when it started to feel like, is this gonna be his model moving forward? He's just filming all the time and whenever he feels like, oh, this might actually be a movie, he'll start shooting more intentionally and cut it together. And instead, this is like an absolute weird one-off experiment and already weird experimental career.

And then we have the film section of the early production section of the movie. She's on stage on the Paramount lot. Is that where that was the filming location? Yes, because David Lynch loves the scenes. I think it's in Sunset Boulevard, which are set at the Paramount lot, and has great admiration for the Paramount lot. And like has great like aberration for the Paramount lot

is this like sort of hallowed old movie. It's a beautiful classical. Right. Yes, it feels really preserved. And so we meet Kingsley Stewart, Jeremy Irons in like, you know, Irons mode as like the adult pretentious director. And then Justin Theroux is the kind of,

as Devin, the, you, the sultry star. The cad. I don't know if I knew he was in this. Oh really? And just because we've been trying to record chronologically, we did, I think Mulholland Drive was actually the most recent Lynch episode we had done before this. When they revealed Justin Theroux sitting in an audition,

I think part of my struggle for the first, let's say, hour to hour and a half of this movie was like, Lynch, I'm waiting for you to make the case for why this isn't you just still exploring the same things as Mulholland Drive. Right, because it's Hollywood again, it's a, you know, weird dream tale again. And Thoreau's here again.

Like, there's a lot of the dynamics feel very similar. But... It becomes its own thing. Yeah, you sort of get this sense, like, there's a lot of the dynamics feel very similar. But, um, it becomes its own thing. Yeah. You sort of get this sense, like there's this thing where they appear on a talk show that's hosted by Diane Ladd and renounced by William H. Macy, this sense that like maybe Laura Dern's character, Nikki has some sort of scandal in her past that, uh, Justin Theroux's character is right. Someone who always hooks up with his co-stars.

There's like a sauciness. Right. And then kind of my favorite scene in the movie is when they're shooting the film and Harry Dean Santana obviously is there. Looking for money. Yes, and he- Wearing a suit and smoking.

Right, sees something and- Yeah, this is one of the things I remember from 2007. Yes, like it's in the dark, you know, back there. And they go and look. And I remember in the theater, as someone who had seen Mulholland Drive being like, am I about to be like scared out of my fucking skeleton? Right.

Is something crazy going to happen? Yeah. And it's not, it's more just this unnerving, dreamy, please talk about it. You're raising this yellowed notebook. Well, I just wanted to, I mean, actually we should remember fear Sieben, four seven, the number that comes up a lot. So this is the four of four seven. But during this initial meeting, Kingsley says something after Justin Theroux is like a runoff to try to find

whatever Harry Dean Stanton pointed out. I was like, there's something there. This line is so scary to me when Kingsley's like, all right, I'm going to tell you guys the truth. We're actually remaking a movie. Then he says, is this movie? German film. Yes.

They discovered something inside the story and the leads were murdered. One of my real heebie-jeebie things really gives me the heebie-jeebie, well, murder, of course, is- Murder just doesn't sit right in the middle. I don't like it. Haunted productions.

Sure. Oh, sure. Like the- A story with a curse sure. Like the King in Yellow. A story with a curse on it, yes. You know, the weird tale where it's like, there's this haunted play and when they start to perform it, they all go insane, that kind of stuff. The idea of, I was thinking about last night, really what freaks me out is humans,

there's something so uncanny about this ancient tradition and art that we all recognize and love. Humans putting on special clothes and pretending they are other humans and acting out a story for people who are watching them in the dark. That is so fucked up and disturbing

when you think about it. Like if you take it out of like, just the fact like, we've always done that. Like, what are you talking about? It's totally normal. And so the idea of movie productions or TV productions or theater productions being cursed, where you're in the middle of the production,

you uncover something or something is revealed and then it ends in despair, madness, death. That's so freaky to me. Have you seen In the Mouth of Madness? The Carpenter movie that's basically about a book that makes people mad in that kind of way. See, I need a list of like, I wanna have a little film festival where I just watch.

Like the classic thing of like, am I now, is this actually about me? Am I in it? Like getting, yeah. This is my fucking read on the movie, that it's this thing of like, what is acting? Is it convincing yourself you are that person? Is it thinking a lot about that?

Is it researching the things around it? You know? Like, that's part of what is being conjured here. How are you able to bring emotions out of nothing? Right. Are you taking from actual emotion somewhere else in your life? Are you just empathizing and relating to the thing? What I find interesting about that scene is it ends up getting to this curse, right?

There is a severity to which, the tone in which Jeremy Irons, who is an actor who is capable of great severity, who can deliver anything with like a sense of grave importance that makes you sit up, right, in discomfort, if that's what's being asked of him. Where he reveals like, this is actually based on an older Polish film, and Lerner's response to that is as if he's already revealed that there was a curse and a murder, right? Like she's like, you told us this was an original tax.

Right. It's like the real Hollywood IP reaction. You told us this wasn't based on anything. Right. Yeah. Where I like sat forward in my seat and went like, wait, what just happened in this scene? Why is her response so extreme? And it's like, she can already sense that this is going to a bad place in a weird way before you even get to the curse and the tragedy and all of that. This is one of the big like story scenes. It's like one of the only scenes where it's really like here comes the story. Like I'm and you're like I'm really gonna hang on to this as we go out to see. Someone explains

something. Right, yeah. Everything else, maybe you can sort of piece it together or go back later and sort of look at stuff. No one's actually saying stuff. But it makes sense that that was their attitude in terms of like bringing Irons on. And when Irons was on set, was like these scenes were more structured. His dialogue that he clearly like had time to memorize

is able to sort of just like roll off. And these scenes like are communicating clear things. Right, yeah. Yeah, so there's, right, there's this sense of they're maybe playing with some kind of darkness here by engaging with this story again, even though the story they seem to be doing is just a melodrama.

It's just like a romantic melodrama about an affair. On high and blue tomorrows. Very David Lynch type. Should we keep moving? Yeah, you've got this notebook, David. Is this exhibit C? Yeah, I'm like, when is this one B and one A? Well, I mean, I do this every time.

It's just the notes that I took when I was watching it for the second time. But should we talk about your- There's no insights. It's just me recording what happens so later I can go back, especially with this movie, and be like, what happened exactly? Is now a good time to introduce the experiences

of the second and third viewings? I don't wanna force your hand on this. Oh, I know, yeah. So. Cause we talked about the first viewing a bit. Yeah, we talked about it. Sure, so I watched it in 2007. I remembered it as a great night at the movies,

but it wasn't a movie that I felt like, like, oh my God. I gotta see that all the time. Yeah, right. So then I gotta see that all the time. Yeah, right. So then I was talking to my friends that I play music with, playing a band together, and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna talk about Inland Empire. And they were like, oh, Inland Empire,

like never seen that. One of them, Robert had seen it. He was like, let's have a, come over to my house and I have a projector and we can watch Inland Empire. And I was like, great, cause I don't have it, I just have a laptop. I was like, I don't wanna watch we can watch Inland Empire. And I was like, great, because I don't have it. I just have a laptop. I was like, I don't want to watch this fucking thing on my laptop.

Because I remember it as this big, like overwhelming night at the movies. You know, it's like when David, if you guys talked about the David Lynch iPhone thing where he's like, now when you see a movie on your phone, that whole thing. Yeah. Such a sadness.

It's that and the clip where they ask him about product placement and he says, bullshit, fucking bullshit. Get real. Anyway, so we went over to Robert's house and we watched it and that was like my time to take all my notes and all that stuff. And I was like, yeah, it holds up.

Like it's pretty good. Right, you had a good experience here, but nothing like a bolt from the blue. But you felt like, okay, it holds up. It's pretty good. You had a good experience here, but nothing like a bolt from the blue. Right. But you felt like, okay, no, I feel secure in the fact that I picked this as the episode I want to do. Yeah, there's a lot going on in this movie, obviously. There's stuff, most of the stuff I had forgotten.

I thought a lot of the movie was her burning holes in camisoles and trying to save prostitutes. And that's, I thought it was like Mission Impossible, you know, like I gotta burn another hole so I can jump through a wormhole and go save more prostitutes. But it wasn't that at all. It was like so much more, like I think in retrospect,

I tried to put a story on it, right? Yeah, of course. It's the easiest way to engage with it, yeah. Right, just like you do with dreams, right? You try to find a narrative or make sense of it. Then what happened was we were like, you know what we should do? Because after we watched it, they were like really into it.

It's like, we should score it. We should go to our practice space and set up a projector and screen the movie and mute it and respond to it with sound and music. Like we'll do a live improv score of Inland Empire. Fellas, this was one of the great creative experiences of my adult life. It was just three of us.

It wasn't the full group because people were traveling and stuff. But Catherine and Brian and I went to the practice space. I was like, this is like- Katherine didn't know if Brian wills not. Yeah, exactly. And we had a drum kit, we had like rototoms, we had bass and guitar. It's like we set everything up like, okay, we're going to set everything up so that we can just move from sound source to sound source. So like, I a, one of those Korg bass synthesizers, cause I know like Lynch is great at those like low tones

with like texture, we had a Volca bass. I bought a cello bow so that we could bow the cymbals for that iconic horror, you know, when you hold, you like stabilize the bell of the cymbal and then you drag the bow on and it's like, it makes all these crazy overtones. This is like fucking John Brian at Largo. Just everything.

We're about to geek out. The muse can take over us. Exactly. We can move over to any. I brought a tape recorder and all these cassette tape loops I had made, you know, where you get the texture of the tape and the

repeating click of the tape loop where you've spliced the tape and all that stuff, you know, and just had just I had all this stuff set up and it's like, all right, let's turn out all the lights and we'll start watching the movie on the projector. We will engage with the movie.

We'll try to reflect the movie back to itself with sound. We had just watched the movie two nights earlier, so we kind of knew in a way what the dynamics were, right? You had things you could anticipate. Yeah, exactly. And it was so fun and exciting. And we took like two breaks, like we took a break like at an hour and then a second break

like within the last 45 minutes of the movie. It wasn't non-stop for three hours, but it was so great. I've played guitar, noodled on guitar while I'm watching a movie at home where it's like, just play along with the soundtrack or something. But I never replaced the movie's audio and tried to really express what I was feeling about the movie or

what the characters were feeling like through making music or noise or just sounds, right? Like a lot of it is just like sounds, right? Because that's what he does. I'm curious. Did you have the film muted or at a low volume? Muted. No, muted. Muted captions on? No captions. No captions. You just work off of images and the fact that you'd all as a group watched it fairly. Yeah Yeah, exactly very recently. Yeah two days earlier

I think it was feel like we must have talked about this in the Buster Keaton series But it is fascinating how in in a in a pre sound era a lot of those classic silent films either original score lost or original score was never recorded, obviously. Yeah, right, you just have no idea what it was like to see that movie. Or even the ones, and wherever you were seeing it screened, if it was live accompaniment, it was subject to reinterpretation,

but also even the ones that do have a quote unquote definitive score, there are so many people today who like write new scores for them. Right. And depending on like what release of a Buster Keaton film you get from which like disc manufacturer label, it'll have like two or three different scores. And you're like, this fundamentally alters the movie. It's fucked up when you watch Buster Keaton with the Bond thing. We all think about, right, you're like, well Sherlock Jr. is a definitive film. We all can talk about that and have the same experience. And it's like, no, are you watching the fucking,

like, the Cohen Media Group disc? Are you watching the Keno Lorber disc? Are you seeing it projected with live accompaniment? And we think about, like, film being such a finite, fixed thing, and, like, the director's intent. You're seeing everything as they wanted it. When for the first couple decades, it was just like, no, there's this whole big component

that is one of the most emotional components of film storytelling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is very like individual experience based. One of the reasons I think it worked so well and was so exciting was because this movie does, as a movie, have a lot of obvious, like, it was improvised, right?

And it's so fluid and so open. I mean, he would write things and give them to people on the day, but a lot of it is, right, it's just him capturing behavior. So improvising back to it felt really appropriate. I love it. Yeah. It felt like- Did you record this?

I was just gonna ask. We recorded it, but stupidly, I didn't set the levels on the Zoom recorder before we recorded it. It was really loud, so it's all blown out and compressed. It doesn't sound... I mean, it's kind of perfect, actually, for the movie. It doesn't sound like the right way.

Well, we got one thing right. It sounds like shit. Yeah. Just like Hill and Dempire. I don't know. You should just do something with that. You should. And the way it ended was... well, we'll talk about that

when we talk about the end. Okay. Because we ended it in a way where I had a, like almost like a genuinely new experience. It was awesome. It's always fun having David on the show. That's always a treat. So, I mean myself, by the way,

I'm talking about having me on the show. You don't have to be on often enough. So after all of the things we were just talking about, we have this interlude with Julia Ormond as a character called Doris, who's talking to a police person and she has a screwdriver inside of her stomach. It is destabilizing anytime a quote-unquote established actor shows up in this film. Who is she? She looks familiar. She was...

Great actor. ...is a great actor, but is sadly kind of like largely known as this incredible example of like the star-making machine, where she was in Legends of the Fall, right? That was her big early Hollywood movie. And then it was like everyone in Hollywood decided she was the one, and they cast her in the Audrey Hepburn role in the remake of Sabrina.

And there was this New York Times article about the making of a star. That's like, Julia Orman's been going through the conveyor belt for the last year and a half. Everyone has anointed her. Everyone's now weighing in on what her haircut should be in her dress. And this is the moment that she's gonna become an A-lister.

And then that movie does not connect. Is despised, I would say. Yeah. Kind of a classic, like, what do you think you're doing remaking Sabrina in the first place and stop hamming her down our throat? Yes. Everyone was just like, enough of this.

And now she's become someone who will pop up every couple of years and, like, she is the daughter in Benjamin Button is very good in that. You know what, though? You love Mad Men, right? Oh, yes. Mad Men? Do you like Mad Men? I like it. I don't know if I've seen all of it. She what though, you love Mad Men, right? Oh yes. Mad Men? Do you like Mad Men? I like it.

I don't know if I've seen all of it. She is Megan's mother in Mad Men. If you remember Megan, the French Canadian girl that Don Marys. Second wife. Oh, okay. She has this imperious French Canadian mother, Miss Calvet, who then ends up with, spoiler alert,

Roger Sterling. This is the thing, she's just become kind of a really interesting character actress who will pop up and you'll be like, Julia Orman, she's still good. Got it. She never stopped working, but there are these two phases of all this energy around her for her throttling and then on the other side of her throttling way down and being like, I'll just show up and play with David Lynch.

Do you know who I thought she was? I thought she was the actress who did that thing where she dressed up as bugs and had sex. Isabelle Rosselline. Yeah, I thought it was. A classic Lynch collaborator. Right, yeah. Lynch is a former partner. Yeah, okay.

Okay, not her though. And makes sense. Another sort of raven-haired, you know, Euro-tinged actor. Who kind of looked like as golden age movie starlets. They had that kind of classical beauty. Yeah. Right, Julia Ormond never got to be

the maybe even the level of star that Isabelle Rossellini was, but that was her. Right, the thing was it's like, wow, this woman, she's a throwback. She's this, right, the camera loves her. And she's gorgeous. She is elegant, she is grace. She also played Guinevere in first night

in that like two, two-year explosion before she then does Smileless Sense of Snow and becomes a bit of a punchline. But, yeah, she's sort of one refraction of this story, right? This, when she appears... Well, the ripple effect, I mean, you're dealing with this kind of, like, broken chronology of the movie of, like, what happened to this woman,

and then two hours later, we get the scene of her finding out that this affair has happened. You're not really centered within it, but you're almost seeing kind of like these projections of the ripples of damage from small actions. Yeah, it's a network of associations and characters. Right, then we have various things that are

flitting between them making on High and Blue Tomorrow, flirting on set, off camera. Yeah. Justin Theroux has a strange conversation with Nicky's husband. Piotrek. Right. Who's this bland, grumpy, Polish guy who talks about like the bonds of marriage and enforcing them and all that.

But you do have, he's playing the trick a lot of you're deeply in a scene and then it's like, cut. Oh, that wasn't reality. It starts to create this pattern of destabilization where you can be so far into a scene and still not really know what reality you're dealing with. And the most brilliant part of that is right when, when they're having sex, it's all blue.

And then she says, this sounds like dialogue from her script. And Kingsley is like, what's going on? Cause they are shooting this script. Like she's gone the other way. That's a really uncanny moment, that line. It's really, really scary. That's a really uncanny moment, that line. It's really, really scary. That is really when things are, we sort of start to exit the loose plot framework

that we're in, which is easier to grapple with, of like, okay, they're on a movie and like reality is blurring, I get it. She kind of goes to advanced study and is like, what about the history of commodification of women as an industry? That's when she is basically just like completely immersed and ends up basically going into the movie. I don't know how else to describe it.

Going kind of going through a portal. How would you describe it, David? This is when with the grocery bag, when she sees Axon and she walks in and now she is the person that Harry Dean Stanton saw during the table read. And you have Justin Theroux pressing his head up against the window. Right, and he can't see her and now she is in

what we thought was a prop house and is now a new reality. She's in an actual house and the reverse is, like when she looks out the window, like there's a yard out there. And then it's like, yeah, through the looking glass. Right, I guess the closest way to understand it is she is inside the film in some sort of way, right? Yes.

Because now we're kind of in this world where there's this sort of chorus of they're called the Valley Girls, of these sort of women, are they, you know, are they like representations of her feelings? Are they kind of like an external force that's trying to help her or... One of them is Jordan Ladd, right? I think so. I can tell you the...

Who is Lord Dern's cousin? Sure. Oh. Yeah, Jordan Ladd, Terran Westbrook, Kristen Kerr. There's a bunch of them. And I think they change sometimes. Like, it's not the same like group every time like classic David Lynch trick. Uh, they like to do things like dance to the locomotion. Yeah.

You know, although when they do that, they seemingly multiply it. It becomes like 10 of them. Right. They like to check out each other's boobs. They like to talk about. There are some great shots of Laura Dern leaned up against the wall, looking at them like, what the fuck? It's so funny. Yeah.

It's the thing that I feel like has populated the internet the most is just shots of Laura Dern head against the wall, smoking a cigarette with this kind of vacant, like, I don't know what I'm doing look at her face. Can we like take this moment to kind of dig into Laura Dern more? Sure. Because there's the stickiness of the cow campaign, right?

And part of that is at this point, Laura Dern had gotten an Oscar nomination very young. Yeah, for... Ramblin' Rose? Ramblin' Rose, yeah. But she's what, 20 or 21 in that movie? Is she that young? Unless she was born in 67. And is born in 67.

She would have been like 23. Okay. You know, but like, obviously're 21 in that movie? Is she that young? Unless she was born in 67. She would have been like 23. Okay. But obviously she's Hollywood royalty. She's the daughter of Bruce Dern and Diane Ladd. She's very young when she's in Jurassic. She kind of has this crazy arc from the 80s into the 90s. Oh my God, she was in Jurassic Park. Yes, that's a thing.

She formed the highest grossing movie as the female lead. Before Rambling Rose, she has quite a long come up. Like it's like... Fabulous Stains. Yeah, Fabulous Stains teachers, which is one of the students in it. Mask, obviously she's like fairly significant part in that. I think she's the best performer tonight.

Might agree, she's good in that. And then Smooth Talk, which was like... That's her breakthrough. Right, this breakthrough, which is this early Sundance 80s breakout film, which is good, where recommends people seeing it. And then, of course, Blue Velvet is, you know... Oh, right, the girlfriend.

First experience with Lynch, and then Wild at Heart, and... Both her parents, very famous established actors, right? And she's one of these sort of like children of the industry, industry babies, if you will, Nepo babies, who was sort of like, I didn't have the intent to be an actor. I sort of started getting thrown into stuff in this way that I think makes people angry

and envious of people who have this kind of access to the industry. Because it sounds disingenuous. Well, I think she is genuine about it, but it was sort of like, I didn't want to be an actor. My parents didn't want me to be an actor. I'm around. People notice.

Suddenly they can't cast a role. I'm doing two lines in something, then it becomes a larger supporting role. I didn't really think of myself as an actor until I was already five or six credits in. Until I saw the cow. Right, and then as you're saying, there was this arc and then it's sort of like, oh, smooth talk.

Now she's kind of like fully realized owning this as sort of like a profession. Right. And as a craft and whatever. And then, yeah, works with really interesting directors, has these interesting parts. But by the time she gets to Jurassic, she's like a veteran.

She's been doing it for like 10 years and she's also 25? Yeah, yeah, she is quite young in Jurassic Park. But she projects, I feel like, she projects sort of experience, partly because she's been in movies for 10 years at that point, partly because she's... There's an innate metroidity to her. Yeah, she's like a super scientist, right?

Right, right. And then she kind of, you know, she kind of has a good... She's great in a perfect world. Obviously Citizen Ruth is a great performance that gets her a lot of indie further in the cred. Is incredible in that, yeah. But I do feel like it's kind of like the Kate Winslet thing after Titanic,

slightly less intense version of it, where Kate Winslet really just does not make a studio film for years. Yes. She does weird indie stuff, she works with cool directors if she wants to. She's like, Laura Dern doesn't really make, she makes October Sky and she's 99.

This is the point I wanna make. I feel like when you hit 2000, Laura Dern starts to enter weirdly a space similar to Julia Ormond. Obviously minus the backlash, right? But of like every two years she shows up and people are like, Oh right, Laura Dern. Laura Dern's really good. And then she kind of disappears from people's minds again. Like one of her only studio movies in that era, in the 2000s, is fucking Jurassic Park 3, where she has this bizarre role where like that movie's marketing is fucking Sam Neill is back, Alan Grant is back, she's not in the marketing at all.

I remember going to the theater and being like, she's in this too? And then her role is she's now a stay at home mom with two kids. Yeah, someone calls her on the phone and is like, hey, can you get a plane over there? I don't really do that Jurassic thing anymore. And she's in like four scenes, but all within a kitchen.

Huh. And yeah, then she'll like pop up in things and be good when We Don't Live Here Anymore comes out, a movie that had a lot of Sundance buzz and people were like, this performance is incredible. David Denby writes this very horny review that says she's maybe the best American actress. And then it's like, she kind of dissipates again.

This movie felt like this sort of monument built to like, take Laura Dern seriously. We need to stop taking her for granted. And it works in some ways. And then she continues on this other path. And then I feel like it took another five or six years before. It's five years. I think it's...

It's starting with Wilde, really. No, no. I think it starts with Enlightened. It's like... Oh, you're right. It's like she does this, and then, yeah, she continues on the path. I think that she largely chooses for herself if she does stuff if she wants to, you know. And it's often odd little indie movies or whatever.

And then she does the HBO show, Enlightened, which is not a hit. I mean, in the middle, she did play Katherine Harrison, Recount, which is kind of the other kind of Laura Dern thing. Like Laura Dern can give you really big sassy acting if you want it, right? She can do other stuff too,

but she can play like a big sort of goofy part. She's in Mike White's, You're the Dog, where she goes pretty big, but she's incredible in that. And I remember that being experienced for me of being like, where's Laura Dern been? Why isn't everyone using her all the time? He writes enlightened for her off of that. Did you ever see enlightened? I think you'd love it.

I did. That's where she working in an office and she wants to organize or get political and she's just like annoying the shit out of everybody. And it was two seasons of people being like, why aren't people watching Enlightened? Why isn't this winning Emmys? And it never really-

It kind of invented the half hour dramedy that is everywhere. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right. Where people are like, I don't get it. It's not that long, but it made me feel sad too. But it is kind of funny, but also like, I'm really moved, what's going on here, right?

Then off of that, Wilde is one of those famously short amount of screen time versus nomination performances where she's just kind of undeniable in three flashback scenes. And it feels like everyone going like, right, we should celebrate every single time she acts. What is Wilde? It's an adaptation of the Cheryl Strayed memoir.

Oh, it's very weird. Sorry, Reese Witherspoon, not Reese Witherspoon. She's like, hikes the Appalachian Trailers? Yeah. It's a movie I think is magnificent. And it's, people put it in the sort of chick movie basket or the like, yeah, good, not great basket. The Andy Project to get an Oscar nomination showcase of a major star getting dirty.

I've seen it several times. I think it is an incredible movie. Which is shocking to me given that I largely despise the work of the man who made it. He seemed like a nice guy and he died, which is very sad, Jean-Marc Belay. But I'm- Who then does Big Little Lies, which she's also in. The best show.

This web of collaborators who are going like, I need to build more shit for Laura Dern. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's Reese Witherspoon's dead mother. And I think she truly has like seven minutes of screen time. It's very brief. She's this luminous. Her mother is gone at this point, but it's she's this luminous presence in her memory. It's like three flashbacks. Perfect Laura Dern. Just like she's like a fucking planet. She's undeniable. But that's everyone Laura Dern, just like she's like a fucking planet. She's undeniable, but that's the thing,

everyone leaned in and were like, we have to nominate this, right? I know it feels insane, cause she's not in it very much. It was seen as a slightly surprising nomination. It was like the guy in Into the Wild. Yes. What's his name? Hal Holbrook.

He has one scene, but didn't he get nominated? He's got more, but yeah, he did get nominated. But it's a couple scenes. Yeah, he's so, he's amazing in that nominated? He's got more, but yeah, he did get nominated. It's a couple scenes. He's amazing in that movie. He says he wants to be his grandpa.

That movie rocks. That's another movie I love that was... That movie rocks. 2010s feels like Laura Dern finally like fucking achieving icon status. Right. And then it's like, right, she wins an Oscar. She's in Star Wars. She's, you know, right. Which did she win an Oscar for?

She won an Oscar for Marriage Story, where I feel like she sort of... Oh, she's the crazy lawyer. She's you know, what she's an Oscar for she won an Oscar for marriage story where I feel like she's sort of Oh, she's the crazy lawyer It's kind of like the big little lies thing. It's like right she can give you this like big comic, right? You know annoying personality or funny personality, you know, like she's been doing that a little like this in like a cynical way But it almost feels like a calculated You know what if someone gave Laura during this kind of monologue, she would win an Oscar. Like, Bombeck was just like, it's just waiting there for someone to take advantage of it.

If you just have her do this for 15 minutes in this kind of structure, people are gonna flip out. I feel like she's kind of at her most workaholic now. It might just also be because, you know, actors get older, they're less occupied by, you know, their kids or, you know, they go into the other side of that. But she's not like her most beloved. I feel like everyone just values her so much now

as they should. And even like that show, Palm Royal, the Kristen Wiig, fucking Pearl Burnett show, Lurah Dern acquired it and developed it. And then was like, I'm too busy to star in it. I'll ask Kristen Wiig to do it, I have other shoots to do. Like she's kind of just fucking been on top of the world for a number of years now, I would argue.

So let me ask you a question about her in Inland Empire. Yeah. So obviously we're saying like, David Lynch obviously loves Laura Dern, right? Is an incredible on-camera presence. And even shot on the worst camera in the world is just radiant, as we're saying. But given the fact that she never really knew

what was going on, is it still acting? Like, is it still good acting? This is my whole take on why this movie is about acting and why that's what he ends up finding as the spine across it as he's watching her react to this method of shooting is like this is in a weird way the purest form of acting but also how many people on earth can do this like so fucking few it's like maybe double digits for like who can hold the camera understand how a shoot works understand the mechanics of acting but also on camera, understand how a shoot works, understand the mechanics of acting, but also on-camera acting, which is a very different thing, and be this

quick of a process of material, be able to like identify the truth in a scene without any real time to study it or crack it. Which is how lived experiences now that I think about it. Like, when we act, like in quotes, live our lives, express ourselves, we don't have, like, you can have a sense of what the arc of your life is like or what this weekend is going to be like, but we don't have a screenplay. So I guess in a way it does make sense. This was shot like day by day, the way life is lived, right?

Day by day and she just had to react in any given moment, I guess, to how she was feeling in the moment. And that also means you kind of got to be perfect in every take. Right. Because it's like there's no sense of intentionality or like strategy she can apply to how she constructs this performance. It's like in the way people saying that like acting is reacting and just being present, responding to your scene partner. It's like that's what she's doing with David Lynch.

He's her scene partner. Right? Yeah. She's her scene partner. Right? Yeah. She's reacting to what he's giving her and I think he's just going every day. It's why he fucking rented a cow. Where he's like, I've watched the mechanics of this woman working. I give her nothing. And suddenly she gives you something that like most actresses would spend four months

studying to crack that model up. Mm-hmm. Like, how is she capable of this? And also is one of these people who is not, by all accounts, precious about her process, is not a method actor, quote unquote, any way we think of, right? It's just like, I don't know,

I just sort of feel it and I get there. So you like this performance. I think it's incredible. I think it's stunning. I think she's one of the best actors alive. And I think she can be so entertaining Which now she gets a lot of credit for that Sometimes the like actual grit of the depth she can go to if she wants to

She doesn't often do this sort of torrid tortured shit, right is Taken a little for granted. I think I know I keep saying this over and over again, but I think this film is so fascinating in her arc and much like Mulholland Drive, there is this feeling in both cases of these narratives of these women who are just like, I am waiting for the opportunity to show everyone

what I have in me, which is most struggling actors is this feeling of like, I got all this shit bott have in me, which is most struggling actors is this feeling of like, I got all this shit bottled in me. I got these feelings I need to get out of my system and someone just needs to give me the space for catharsis. You're talking about the characters in the movies or the actual working actors who are collaborating with David Lin? The characters in the movie, I think- Like when Naomi Watts has that incredible audition scene- Naomi Watts is interesting because it's a complete overlap of she, the movie, I think... Like when Naomi Watts has that incredible audition scene in Small Holland. Naomi Watts is interesting because it's a complete overlap of she, the actress, is feeling the exact same thing

the character's feeling. This is her chance. Laura Dern, I don't think is feeling that. Laura Dern is like, this is a fun experience of working with my buddy David. Yeah, we're working on a little project together. Right. But what she's playing is someone who it does feel like

in the immediate pressure of, I got this big audition, it's like, is this a chance for something different for me? Maybe it's not the Naomi Watts, I'm unknown and this is going to make me immediately a star, but it's like, is there a thing inside of me I haven't gotten out yet? And you know, he's like these two movies back to back with some years in between, both of them had very bizarre processes to getting to the finish line, are both sort of about this like, this sense of desperation of like,

if you really have something you want to say in an industry that is kind of like inherently ugly, evil, feeds on that desperation, feels lecherous and predatory. Even just every cut to like Harry Dean Stanton's face is like, is this guy a problem? They're constantly just being some guy in a suit watching you and nodding approvingly or like frowning like the Sphinx. And then hitting you up for money. Right.

And then she's like spiraling into despair. But I also feel like there's this sense of like, this is a different take. But it's like you have this melodrama they're making. It's like, what if we keep tunneling down into a story? Does it always come back to some sort of folk tale that is like once there was a child and he went into the world and then there was evil? He saw his reflection. Is that what it is? He saw his reflection and evil followed him into the world.

And you're like, right, right, right, right. If we just sort of like keep dissembling and iterating, right, over and over on some, like, oh, I've written this melodrama and it's indicative of this and it's a reference to that. And it's like, right, but at the end of it all, of the big tunnel, it's like, we've been telling you the longest story forever

and the story is just like like there's evil in the world or a person transgressed against something. The Twin Peaks stuff. Yeah. Which is also interesting when so much of Lynch's work is I'm starting with like a well-worn proven American genre staple and going into those cliches and then starting to pull them apart, reconstruct them.

But I'm starting with a very basic noir setup or whatever it is. A woman in trouble. Right. He's like, the film's about a woman in trouble. And you're like, yes, sure it is. Laura Dern is in trouble. Right. But then also the film starts with a person,

a woman we don't know the name of or really anything about in a hotel room who's clearly in trouble. Right. And then we're seeing, With a person, a woman we don't know the name of or really anything about in a hotel room, who's clearly in trouble. And then we're seeing this snowy Polish street suddenly or whatever. And like, you know, we're seeing the Valley, I don't know. Like there's just lots of versions of the same thing happening in different reflections.

And that's what the movie's about to me. Who's the wide-eyed actor? I think he's a Polish actor who plays, I think, her husband at times. Sure, yeah, okay, yeah. Like when she is sort of inhabiting the working class version of her character. When they're in the little house and they're having their domestic thing.

Yeah. Right. That's Smithy. But he's also, it's the same guy who's the fancy Polish guy. It's the same actor who is her husband in real life. He's just opening his eyes much wider. Yeah. Right. He is really striking, but scary.

He's a scary presence. Yeah. There's some intense presences in this movie. He's a scary presence. Yeah, there's some intense, intense presences in this movie. There are some mugs. Yeah, there's some mugs. There's some mugs up in this one. Yeah, for sure. Cause the thing is I'm also looking up

and we've been at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we gonna get through it? We are, because at this point, there's less story. Now it's mostly vibes. Like you don't have to worry about like, oh, we forgot the car chase where they realized

that the diamond was actually in the. I'll tell you the shot that blew my mind. It's when he does the slow camera pan away from Laura Dern that within the shot transitions to Poland in the early 1900s. That's dope and also the match fade between the guys in Poland at the table who reposition themselves so that they're synced up with the rabbits.

When that scene is awesome. But I also, I feel like that time travel shot, basically the movie entering a portal, right? Is the kind of thing I have seen so many, like, I don't know, the fucking, The Walk or Gangsta New York does a version of it at the end where it's like, we're staying in this location but traveling through time. And now I'm used to so many versions of this shot

that are like big showcase of CGI. Skyscrapers get built. Right, or falling down or whatever it is. And this is just truly, he's on her face, the camera is clearly on a tripod, it swivels, and as it swivels, the color pulls out of the image, it goes to sepia, and then you see like a horse-drawn carriage Yeah, and then on the other side of the camera when it lands

Here are women dressed in period clothing and you're like, oh, I guess we travel through time It's so simple. You're doing you're it's a good call. You're making me want to rewatch it It is very cool. And I do think like you said he does get so much out of it. It's so freaky being there Yeah, the landscape is very cool. And I do think, like you said, he does get so much out of it. It's so freaky being there. Yeah. The landscape is so cool. And, yes. Can I throw out my quick?

Yes. So, I was talking to someone, a native of Warsaw when I was there, and I was like in the downtown area, and I was like, I find it so relaxing here. I'm used to cities like living in New York where it's this tightly compressed grid and everyone's crammed in and everyone's rushing. And here, like the streets are so wide, the sidewalks are so wide, everything feels so open.

Why aren't all cities built like this? And she was like, well, they built it like this for the rallies. And I was like, that's why this place is sad. Like there's shit like that. Where anything you can point at where you're like, there's an interesting vibe to no cities laid out like this. And you're like, that's the thing they destroyed.

We built it this way because of this. That's the last vestige. It's the only building that didn't get burned down. And there is, I just think there's something he's tapping into of that cultural identity. I just feel like in my experience, the people of Poland just carry that shit with them. It just feels deep in there. And the fact that he's using so many Polish actors, he's not just hiring actors to put on Polish accents. The first thing he shot in Poland when he's there, you know, taking

pictures of factories and shit, and he's there, taking pictures of factories and shit, and he's like, I kind of want to write something and film it, is the scene where it's the three old men at the table. And that was just, right, that was like a fragment that he came up with. And he's like, I'm going to go from here, but like that's the beginning of whatever this Genesis is.

She burns, you know, the Valley girls tell her to maybe burn a hole in a, you know, in some tights or or whatever and look through the silk. And we start to see things like the rabbits again, the lost girl again, the husband attacking his wife or mistress, things like her talking, the Lord Dern monologuing to Mr. K, right? All of that stuff starts to pop up. That's the stuff at the table when she has the accent and she's bruised up. She's saying fuck her a lot.

Yeah. She sure is. Yeah. The locomotion is happening then. Also, they danced to At Last, I think, the Etta James song. You know, what else have we got? There's a Beck song at one point. Right.

One of the wildest things. When we land on the Black-Hollywood Boulevard. Yeah. That's later. got? There's a Beck song at one point. Right. One of the wildest songs. When we land on the Black-Hambry. Black-Hambry? The Black-Hambry? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's later, yeah. You have the backyard party where some of the Valley girls are there

where Smithy, her husband in this reality, has ketchup all over his shirt. And they're all talking absurdly and very serially. Have the hot dog. That shit is definitely, I think, if you are just like, I'm gonna go see a movie tonight at the IFC Center, when you're like, should I? And I have no disdain for this, should I leave?

Right. Have I just completely, I just feel like I have spaghetti in front of me now. I've read the temperature wrong, this is not the night I wanted. Right. Yeah, because sometimes with David, especially in the return when it's like 20 minutes

of a guy sweeping a floor, it's like, are you fucking with me? What's going on really? Come on, level with me, bro. What are we doing here? But that's the scene, the backyard scene is important, isn't it, because that's when Smithy's like, yeah, I'm gonna go take care of these animals

with this group of people, which is something that beat up Laura Dern describes to the guy at the desk in when she's talking about. When she's talking about the monologues, right? We're sort of seeing versions of that. We should also say that she introduces the idea of the phantom.

Yeah, it's just an important character. In the climax, that's who she shoots. Who she shoots, right, yeah, totally. The phantom is sort of. Another hot mug, intense mug, that guy. Right. Is sort of- Another hot mug. Intense mug, that guy. Right. Is sort of the villain of the film, if you want to be.

He's kind of the Thanos, yeah. Bob, yeah. He seems to, I guess, be, you know, the husband of the other woman, maybe, right? Or something, you know, the lost girl, the girl we see in the hotel room. But I also, at one point we see a guy with a red light bulb in his mouth,

being weird, that's the Phantom, but I also... But he also is Axon M or whatever that... I guess so. But also I think the crazy iconic image of Laura Dern's face blown up on her head with the teeth. On his head. On his, you know, That's him, right. Yeah, that's the boy who saw his reflection

and evil followed him into the world. It's like one of the great David Lynch doppelganger moments where it's like, oh right, everyone in your dream is you. Right? Yes, right, yes, that's a good way of thinking about it. At some point someone mentions Inland Empire, which is really funny because it almost feels like late in the movie.

They're like, has anyone actually said Inland Empire in this movie? David Lynch is like, there's one thing we forgot to shoot. Someone has to say the name of the movie. Even though from my limited understanding of LA, this is not really set in the Inland Empire. It's mostly in LA. Yeah, it's set in Hollywood on the sound stages. I think someone said to David Lynch,

like, I grew up in the Inland Empire, and he was like, Inland Empire, now that's a name. It's a perfect name for a David Lynch movie because Inland Empire sounds like a poetic way of saying like your dream space, right? Right, yeah. What is, it's just this giant fucking boring show

that you drive through to get to Palm Springs. Oh, okay. But it's just this giant fucking boring shock of drug-borne-ry. It's what you drive through to get to Palm Springs. Oh, okay. But it's huge. I mean, it's a huge metropolitan area. It's flat, it's east of LA. It's this bit, you know. And it's a lot of desert and then just like super-open kind of areas and you know. But the movie is not set in, I mean.

No, it's not. Not geographically. Psychologically, I think it's supposed to be like an inland empire, right? If you think, David was pointing at his noggin. Yeah. The real inland. Yeah, it's as in as you can get.

I can't get through all of this, but you know, what we're eventually getting to is sort of the quote unquote end of on high and blue tomorrows. Where suddenly the Laura Dern, Sue, whoever is with the Valley Girl, she's back in her house and she sort of gets transported to the streets of LA. She's being attacked by the Valley Girls or yelled at. She's saying I'm a whore.

No, no, no, I'm saying like the sort of end. I'm a whore, I, no, no, I'm saying like the sort of end. I'm a whore, I'm afraid, and she starts laughing. Hahahaha. Yeah. You know, she ends up being sort of beaten, the Mr. K monologues kind of end, and she gets like stabbed and dies on the street. Mm-hmm.

With Terry Crews there. Yeah. I'm glad he made it. Yes. You know, like, just because David Lynch, you know, the work output slows down the last 20 years. Right. There are a lot of modern actors who never got to work with him,

which is why he gets so many people jumping in on the return. Just like, I'm glad Terry Crews made the cut. I'm glad he's in... Was he famous at this point? No. He was a former football player. But he had done like White Chicks and Friday After Next. Sure, isn't he in Idiocracy?

When was Idiocracy? That's true, he probably done Idiocracy. Did I think narrowly escape into four theaters this same year? 2006, yeah. Right. But he's basically- Everybody Hates Chris started the year before.

He's a growing kind of comedy character actor. I mean, I remember when I saw him in Everybody Hates Chris, because I think I didn't see a diacrosis until a couple years later on video or whatever. I was like, where did they find this guy? This guy is fucking hilarious. That was my feeling in White Chicks, a film I mostly find dire.

And then you're like- It might be kind of brilliant. That's the thing, if we rewatch it now, are we going to have a Jack and Joe- I was like, reappraisal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, Terry Crews, love him. But he's incredible in that. Yeah, basically playing the nobody's perfect role. Anyway, yeah, Terry Crews is in there.

Yeah, there are these three street people is what they're called in the credits. One of them played by the actress, maybe sort of singer called Nay, who is later in Twin Peaks The Return, gives this incredibly long monologue about a friend of hers that is very compelling but completely inscrutable at least. About Nico, her friend who you assume is like a sex worker or something. Then something very bracing and it's really, really. Awful physical description. When she says, yes, she has a hole in her vagina

that goes into her intestine. And it's like this really grounding, horrifying moment where you realize like for all of David Lynch's love of his female characters and all the violence that happens to them throughout all, so many of his movies and just how awful men can be to women. And then, but it also so often feels allegorical in a way as graphic as the visuals can be but something about this line of dialogue is just like oh right

this is what violence does right and does that make sense very very striking and bracing and sobering I mean I keep going back to this, but the discourse after Blue Velvet of people arguing over whether the film was exploitative, I think in every film after that, when he wants to deal with violence against women as a subject, he really feels a responsibility to be like, I'm not dealing with this as a plot point. Right.

I actually need to engage with the effects of this. Right. You know, like, and part of it is I think him genuinely trying to, and this is so much what Twin Peaks is about, wrap his head around, like, how can this level of evil exist? How can people perpetuate this level of harm? You know, and how do people survive that? I think that's the other side of it. He's fasting.

Right, how do people go on from this sort of thing? And that whole monologue is being delivered to Laura Dern, who is then off camera. You're not sort of cutting back to her reaction shots. There's almost like five consecutive minutes where you're holding on her and almost forgetting Laura Dern isn't there, and she's been stabbed at this point already.

Is bleeding out on the street. And the film reaches such a pinnacle of discomfort, and what you're saying that's absolutely barren, hollow despair, and then you see the fucking seat of a camera crane, and Jeremy Irons calling cut and doing the fucking picture-wrap applause, it is so destabilizing

to have the rug pulled out from under you and be like, yep, movies! Acting! Which is of course what you're fucking watching. And you would think for a lot of directors they'd be like they would end there and be like, good enough, it was all a movie. Instead,

the film continues for a while. Laura Dern does not speak again in the film. She's like in a strange fugue state for the rest of the movie. It's clear that like what... Me saying it's clear right now... It's patently obvious that what actually happens is... It feels like whatever recursive kind of like dream she was locked in, she has exited to some extent. You read it as, okay, we are back.

We're back in- And like she went into this loop and like was sort of moving through worlds or moving through stories. Which is also very fucking Mulholland Drive of like, right. We've landed. And now she seems to be sort of empowered

or filled with some sort of knowledge because she then goes to find the Phantom and destroys it, essentially. Like we're watching her, she goes into this movie theater, right? And then she sees herself on the screen, it is incredibly awesome. This is right, the point at which if you did make it through the middle chunk of the movie,

you're kind of like, I don't know what's going on, but I am right, so transfixed. You also in this section get, am I wrong, the lost woman back in the hotel room now, instead of watching rabbits, watching the movie we've been watching. Yeah, and then Laura Dern comes in and kisses her, and that sends the lost girl, or lost woman,

back into the house. Which is, for me- And reunites with her husband and the son. A key part of my reading, which is like, why do this? Why pursue this? Why, almost like what you were saying about this weird tradition of dressing up

and entertaining strangers in the dark, why make a fucking movie? Why try to act? Is like, in that instant, a woman sitting on a bed in a hotel room after a bad experience, flipping through channels, lands on something that for 45 seconds helps her process her shit. Which isn't to say that art is therapy for others,

but that it's about finding things that you can actually connect with in some way. You know? That helps sort of reveal things to you or make you make sense of your own life that aren't just reflecting back the things you know you like, but are challenging in a way that pulls something new out of you that sometimes can be productive. Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, I don't know how to describe exactly what it is, but she moves through these sort of industrial spaces and doors. Kind of Lynchian.

And confronts the phantom, who is first the phantom man, right? And then is this odd projection of her face. And she shoots him. Which is another thing I remember from seeing it in 2007 on the big screen. The face, first we see her face as she runs towards the camera along that pathway.

And then we see that same face kind of crappily put over the phantom's face. I gotta say, no one does shitty effects better than David Lynch. He's the key. Yes. In the return when she opens her face, like he has such, he knows exactly how crappy special effects can be, where it actually somehow, like, adds to the uncanniness

or the drama of it that it kind of just looks like... Like, even the title, I don't know what font this is, Inland Empire, it's like Helvetica, but like, he compressed it and... It's like so janky, but it's like so great. I was gonna say the poster is very graphic design is my passion. It's absolutely works in a both weird emotion. Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, I don't know his process, but he does kind of feel like a guy who just played around with like iPhoto in the early 2000s on a Mac, like messing with pixels. But that's his whole David Lynch.com era is just like, what can I do with this new fancy computer machine? When I talked to Jane Schoenbrunn about, I saw the TV show, like they... Great film.

Right. They told me that so much of the VFX conversations were, that they were too good, because it's kind of impossible for them to not be pretty good even on a lower budget these days. Right, exactly. How do we degrade this without it feeling too insane? You know, like to what extent? No, show me that earlier rendering you had

that looked fucked up. Why did you, you know, not why did you clean it up, but like, can we get it back to that? It's what I find so interesting about what feels like a truly like new wave of, for 20 or 30 years, we've had people who are influenced by David Lynch but it often feels like they're trying to copy Lynchian stuff rather than finding their own version of what Lynch was able to express.

And rather than trying to copy his visuals or language, they're starting to figure out their own language but tapping into a similar creative process or finding things that have some weird uncanniness or some inexplicable power. Like that movie's a great example of that for me. I'm just like, have you seen that film? I saw it on TV Glow. You'd like it, I think.

I think you would. It's really depressing, isn't it? It's about two kids bonding over it. I don't think you would really find it super depressing. It's got some of the absolute hollowed out shit. It is a melancholy to upsetting, to disintegrating. I can't get hollowed out too often,

but the next time I'm due for a hollowing out, I'll check it out. Yeah, and so after destroying the Phantom, we wind towards the end. Seems like the lost girl is freed. Like it feels like the rabbit, Nikki goes to the rabbit's house. Four seven, if you're a seaman. She goes to the rabbit's house. Four seven, fear of Stephen.

She goes through the door and is in their place. And she's, like you say, ends up back on the couch, smiling, wearing a gown, and then we have a lovely dancing scene. Laura Herring is there, and Natasha Kinski is there. Yeah. My man's song, the log, Twin Peaks shout out.

Yeah, you know, a lot of, a lot of, anyway, it's really good and people exit being like, that was great and I loved it. I don't know. Open to $24 million, number one at the box office? Let me tell you what happened, my experience of the end of the movie, watching it for the third time,

when we were playing along to it. Something really interesting happened. So at this point, we've been engaging with the movie for like, what is like two hours and 45 minutes. And now we reach this final sequence, which is now it is so explicitly David Lynch dealing with some of his favorite themes,

which is people watching other people through the radiator, through the closet door, on screens, on TV screens. Now Laura Dern is watching herself. First she sees a snippet of the movie she was in, then she sees herself, and she goes up the stairs, all this crazy stuff is happening. Right.

We're making noises and sounds, all this stuff playing music. I remember that the music in the actual film is like a ballad. It's like a really melodramatic, beautiful traditional song, right? That he probably co-wrote with somebody. So I had this little tape loop of like

some old snippet of like a symphony or something. It's like orchestral strings, but it's just a little loop. It's like two seconds or something. So it's just looping and looping with like an echo pedal, like making it get bigger and bigger and more abstract. And it's like, we're reaching this climax and drummer's going crazy on the cymbals and everything

as we're watching Laura Dern watching herself. And it's like, we know everything is wrapping up cause we watched the movie. Like we know where it's headed. It's headed to this resolution. Something really, a really great accident happened which is that we stopped playing too soon. We stopped playing before the end of the movie so that that final shot of Laura Dern in her blue dress sitting on the sofa looking at, you're hearing like this echo fade away

and the cymbals fade away. And then we just kind of like, cause we're facing the screen, we've been facing the screen the whole time. We kind of just sat in silence and looked at Laura Dern looking at us. And I like, I got goosebumps. It was a really great moment because it was like,

so, you know, and also just thinking about like, I've no, I've been like, I've fucking like watched Eraserhead like 34 years ago. Like, David Lynch has been such, I'm not a completist. Sure. I'm not a super fan. It's like this guy has been a part of my adult life and a certain part of my sensibility, like my whole life. And now we've just like engaged with this movie in a way that I've never engaged with the movie before. This movie is the last movie, could be the last movie made by a guy who is so into the porousness between dreams and realities and self and doppelganger and all these things and screens and watching and being watched and now it's like this thing has ended and we're just

looking at Laura Dern and she's looking at us as if it had been like an honest collaboration. The spirit of this movie, the fact that he's so freaking creative, there are a lot of great auteurs and great directors. Like Paul Thomas Anderson isn't pointing a stick at a painting with a ball attached, trying to figure out if the painting is done.

You know, like this is a true, like, this is a true artist. This guy is a true artist. He has tunneled into another dimension in a way that he cannot. And it was so... And it has had a monastic almost commitment to the idea of what it means to be an artist as a way of life.

Not just I make art, but like, this is my primary identity. Yeah, totally. And there was something so cool and uncanny, but like in a happy way to be facing Laura Dern as if we had all just finished, like we did it, we're back. Laura Dern is back on her sofa. A woman in trouble can relax for a fucking minute. We've all finished a hot yoga class.

Our ears are ringing like we were good. Yeah, it's like that kind of feeling. And just sitting in silence because we had muted the movie and just looking at Laura Dern. And it was almost like, because so much of David Lynch is about these, right, portals, openings, passages, keys. I had this crazy feeling that the world of the movie, like when you're watching a movie,

you know that the world of the movie is this two-dimensional plane that the light is being movie is this two dimensional plane that the light is being projected on and you kind of enter into it. But in this moment, I had this crazy feeling that the world of the movie is moving towards me in a third, like I'm in it now. I don't like, you know what I mean? Like it was just, I don't know how to explain it really, but it was like, holy fuck, like

we're kind of in this movie because this is a movie about moving between planes and realities and we kind of did that. When it was over, I said, you know what? I think I love this movie. I love Inland Empire. It gave me such a special experience of engagement and creativity and being an active conversation with the movie that is really difficult, if not impossible, to quote understand. But by using a nonverbal technique of noise making and music making, to really try to get a handle on it. It was so awesome. And I'm so grateful to David Lynch for being a somewhat commercially viable director

who can make something that can kind of like change the way I engage with movies. Like this dude is the greatest living American director. Like there is no one like him. There's no one like him. No one can do what he did. In part because of historical accident and part because like he was an Eagle Scout Like him. There's no one like him. No one can do what he did. You're right. In part because of historical accident,

in part because like he was an Eagle Scout who got into transcendental meant like all these particulars. Like he's just the greatest. I mean, he's the fucking greatest. I mean, he's just like ramping up. You just like keep finding another year. When I think about it, it's just like so terrific. Like what a fucking nut job this guy is.

And yet he has so much love for humanity. It's so inspiring You're right. That's that's the thing is did darken despairing and hollowed out as it can get it's not cynical and it's not like punishing no, it's not like Yeah, you know like fucking Neil buttes always like look at this play about how shitty people are. Oh what you can't handle which ass It's like fucking easy. Yeah, dog shit and go that's dog shit it smells bad want to smell it? Yeah we all agree shitty people are bad yeah who fucking cares can I we know JJ put so much into all these dossiers or research who is fired of

course and much more than we can ever say on mic and in our elephant man episode which was 15 years ago, I think, approximately, there was a quote that has really stuck with me that I forgot to bring up in the episode. And I've been like, when is there going to be a relevant time for me to bring this back? Here's the, what's the quote? But it stuck in my cry.

I haven't pulled it up here and it feels, your manifesto, you just went on, feels like the perfect on-ramp to this. Okay. And then I have a quote. Even you talk about him being a semi-commercial artist, right? Right. The man who largely helps him transition that state is Mel Brooks. Yes.

A guy who also- Yes, this is such a great story. Then takes his name off of the movie because he's like, I don't want people to get the wrong expectations. Yeah. But his famous tale of Stuart Curnfield showing him a racer head as like, you want to see the weirdest shit I've ever seen in my life. And then Mel Brooks is like, this is a real filmmaker.

This isn't some guy making some weird gonzo thing. There's like a real filmmaker here. He could make a studio movie. And then the whole arc we've gone on. Obviously it's not done. Next four weeks will be Twin Peaks The Return, but this is his final feature film as of recording. Mel Brooks has this quote. From 2001, many, many years after Elephant Man,

looking back on it, and he says, I felt I was dealing with a true artist with David Lynch. I felt that he was as close to the phenomenon of life and why we're here and why we have to die as any artist I've ever met. Perfect. Yeah. It's perfect. It is such a simple direct statement for a guy who is often seen as so hard to parse and we're all going to spend decades trying to untangle the webs. But I just think like fucking Brooks hit the bullseye there. And that's what he identified in watching his first film

and working with him on his second film. And two very different movies in a lot of ways and similar in other ways. But like, in a way, that's kind of what all of his fucking movies are about. It is why you cannot totally crack them, because he's making movies about these unanswerable questions that fundamentally kind of don't make sense.

That kind of fundamentally are absurd. Yeah, and I think- Oh, I'm just kidding. I don't know why you guys won't listen to me. Well, that's what it's about. You just have to, it's just like with life. You just have to sit with it and react to it and try your best, you know?

It's like the Eagle Scout way, you know? It's like- It's not Brooks's other great line was, he's like Jimmy Stewart from Mars. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. That's right, Jimmy Stewart from Mars. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. That's right, Jimmy Stewart from Mars. When we were done watching the movie and

packing up our gear and everything and just marveling at it, that was so fun. We got to do this. We should come up with a list of other movies that we can do this type of engagement with this live scoring. Big Mama's House. Big Mama's House and the Clumps or the Crumps or whatever it's called. Crumps would be good. We were thinking, who are the other? Big Mama's House. Big Mama's House and the clumps or the crumps or whatever it's called. Crumps would be good.

We were thinking like, who are the other, like who are the other David Lynch's, like who else can do this? And it's like, well, obviously no one is like David Lynch, right, he's one of a kind. Walt Becker. But I was thinking about like other artists who just have this fully realized vision.

And the person I thought of was the French American artist Louise Bourgeois. You guys know her? Of course, yes. She's famous for these huge metal sculptures of spiders. She loves a big old spider. They have the movie Enemy. Uses them, the imagery like that, yeah.

She died in her late 90s and I was really struck with the comparison. So I never really liked her stuff. It's like she was an iconic 20th century feminist artist. She made a lot of sculptures that are like about being embodied and they have like protuberances and all kinds of growths and stuff. And she uses like sometimes untraditional sculptural materials.

And it's like feels really intimate and really kind of really icky. A lot of it. But she worked in all different types of media. So once I was in DC and the Corcoran Gallery was having a lifetime retrospective of Louise Bouchoir, it was like, I don't know, seven decades of her artwork. It was like a true lifetime because she was in her 90s at that point. My friend and I are like, all right, let's go check it out, see what it is.

Room after room of these artifacts of someone expressing all this in-choate, deep, deep stuff through art, through drawing, through prints, through sculptures, through things that look like they could have been sets or props in a David Lynch movie, the same type of interest in bodies or like a, who made Videodrome with that guy? Crumber.

Yeah, that kind of stuff. Like a lot of unsettling, beautiful objects. And as I was going through the exhibit, I was like, holy fuck, this is a real artist. This is someone who lived their life and truly expressed it. I mean, you're asking who else fits into that bucket, the very few American artists we could describe that way.

And I got one top of my head. Who's that? Ben Hosley is pointing at that. You got that Louise Bourgeois stuff? I feel that Ben is as close to the phenomenon of life and why we're here and why we have to die as any artist I've ever met. Wow, that's a huge compliment.

So at the- And you have a similar commitment to, you said who else would point a stick with a ball at a painting? Ben would do that. I would do that. You bury a pair of pants in the dirt for 20 years? That's pure expression.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm actually, that's one of the in the dirt for 20 years. Wasn't that your business model? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually, that's one of the things I'm doing in LA. Burying pants or digging them up. Burying them. The amount of projects that Ben has done that have, might never be released. That he kind of does for himself. That's the way to do it, man.

Secret projects. So let me finish this story. So we go through this whole exhibit. It's truly like an artist life work. Someone that I had never really engaged with because it made me uncomfortable. And by the end of it, I'm like, this is terrific. Like what she did is like heroic. And then at the end,

the thing that really put it over the edge, and I think this quote is almost like could be like a capstone to David Lynch's career. She had a little piece of embroidery. It was like a vintage handkerchief, like a cotton handkerchief with like a blue border or like a light blue pattern. It was very old and she had embroidered text on it

in light blue and all capital letters. Remember, I'm seeing this after I've just walked through a life's work of like really wrenching stuff, right? Someone really seeking to express themselves, explain the world to themselves, all this kind of stuff. On this little handkerchief she'd embroidered, I've been to hell and back and let me tell you, it was wonderful. Tears flowing from my eyes like, holy shit. What an artist. What an artist. And I really do feel like David Lynch has a lot

of that energy, especially in this movie, right? Yeah. It's just like so awesome. It's so inspiring. Because it's the purest process film. Yeah. Yeah. It's just great.

Yeah, I agree. It's just great. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me Yeah. It's just great. Yeah, I agree. It's just great. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me back. It was great to see you guys. I just like, the fact that you'd only seen this movie once and throwing you the Lynch list and you saying, yeah, why not Inland Empire?

Gave you the opportunity to have this experience. No, I thank you guys. No, I mean, yeah. I wasn't fishing for that. It just feels, it's exciting. It was nice to, it was nice to, because of all the movies that I've come on to talk about, this is the one where I hadn't seen it in a long time

and I wasn't sure I loved it. Like those other movies that we've talked about, like I really love all those movies. They're terrific, you know? And this one, I just remembered the memory of like, that was a total cinematic experience the first time I saw it. And so I'm really happy that I got to come back and then have this other total cinematic

experience. I think it's honestly going to like kind of change the way I engage with movies going forward. So thank you to you guys. Can you remind me the date you saw this film? March 10th, 2007. Oh, on my, on exhibit B? Was March 10th, 2007?

I saw it on March 10th, 2007. Three days later, I saw The Lives of Others. Good movie. We didn't even talk about the remake of 310 to Yuma. Another absolute banger. Yep. Rad and Dewey. Secretly a Western, though.

We are so excited to say that this week's box office game is brought to you by our friends at Regal with the Regal Unlimited program It's an all-you-can-watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits see any standard 2d movie anytime with no black Outdates or restrictions. Here's what you should do follow the link in the show notes or go to the Regal app Click the unlimited banner and then follow the instructions to sign up and enter promo code blank check when prompted to receive your 10% discount on your first three months. So we've done the box office game for Inland Empire before.

It's the weekend the holiday came out. Oh, wild. Well, it's been a while. I wouldn't remember this. But we could also do that weekend. Oh, March 10th? Well, I won't play because I'm looking at all of the movies right here. I would do either. I genuinely don't think... Alright, well here's the opening weekend. Of course, Inland Empire opens on a couple screens.

So it's not in the top... It opens on three screens, yes, in fact. But number one at the box office is not The Holiday. But it is a new film. It is a kind of amazing action, historical epic directed by a guy who's good at that kind of thing, but also has a couple of behavioral issues. It's a Ridley Scott?

No. No. No, he's got behavioral issues. He's done a couple of bad things in his life. I don't know why I'm doing this voice to describe the actions of a sort of an awful guy. He's done a couple of bad things in his life. Had some bad opinions and also just sort of, you know, been a bad person. Yeah, it's 2006.

Yeah, Christmas time. It's December. It's Christmas time. It's historical epic, you said? Yep. Oh, it is the very good film called Apocalypto. Yes, Mel Gibson's Apocaly Gibson's apocalyptic Wow look at that You know sort of adventure was that you doing Mel Gibson No, it's just like that thing where it's like how am I supposed to talk about he's doing the this is the voice

We effect when we talk about We all like this movie yeah the movies in That was kind of complex. But also that we all like this movie. Yeah, the movie's in my opinion kind of excellent. Ben, you're a fan of Apocalypse, right? I remember you've talked about it in the past. I wouldn't say a fan, but I like that film. Number two at the box office is a- Did you want more? No, is it an animated film we've covered?

It's an animated film we've covered. It's not a Zemeckis. Nope. And it's not Musker Clements? No. And it's not a Selick? No. It's not a bird? No. It's a guy who makes live action and animated films. Sure. Oh is it the motion picture Happy Feet? It's Happy Feet! It's George Miller's Happy Feet. Tappa Tappa Tappa. Wow. Dancing Penguin movie. I've never seen that. Is that good?

It's good. Yeah, I kind of prefer Happy Feet 2. I was gonna say your shit would be Happy Feet 2. Is that the- You're Happy Feet 2, man, if I've ever met one. Is that a real sequel? Yeah, people didn't like it in bomb rules. Is that the last movie he made

before he made Mad Max Fury Road? Happy Feet 2 was. Happy Feet 1 was such a success that they were like, we will let you make your Mad Max film if you make us a Happy Feet film. Seriously, that's what it was? And then Happy Feet 2 bombs. It's one of the wildest drop-offs in box office

from one movie to another. And Happy Feet won one best animated film. He gets an Oscar and everyone's like, oh God, we're stuck making this Mad Max movie with him. And then he delivers the best movie ever. Wow. Holiday is number three. Number four, The Box Office is a film We're stuck making this Mad Max movie with him and then he delivers the best movie. All right. Wow Holiday is number three number four. The box office is a film featuring the character James Bond That could be anything. It's a lot of options. It is casino. Yes, and number five new this week and under performing Although it will have a major

Decent legs. Okay, not major legs, but we'll get Oscar like stand down Got a bunch of Oscar noms, including two acting noms. It's a big adventure drama action, very serious, it's about issues. It's underperforming. It's a huge movie star. It's a huge movie star. Is it a cruise?

No. Is it Blood Diamond? Blood Diamond. Yeah, there we go. Is it Blood Diamond? Blood Diamond. Yeah, there we go. Leo DiCaprio in Blood Diamond. And then you've also got the wonderful, incredible Deja Vu at number six. You ever seen Deja Vu?

I don't think so. I think you'd love it. A Sims favorite. What is it about? It's a Tony Scott film about a, Denzel Washington plays a guy who's investigating a terrorist attack and then then is exposed to strange surveillance technology

that he eventually realizes is time travel technology. It's completely insane. It's like Source Code with Jake Gyllenhaal. You ever see that one? That one's good. He's on a train, he keeps looping back to try to find the terrorists. Weird. It almost feels like I've seen that movie before. Nice. Ten Comedy Points.

You've also got Unaccompanied Minors, the Paul Feig kids film. Based on this American life story. Yes. You've also got the Nativity story. Catherine Hardwick. Major movie. Yep. Deck the Halls, that's the Jamie Lee Curtis.

Nope, that's Christmas with the Cranks. This one is Danny DeVito and Matthew Broderick fighting over who has more lights on their house And you have the absolutely referenceable the Santa Claus 3 the escape one of the most evil films ever a Kind of lynching and glimpse into the portals of madness now when and we really should just be done But when David saw the film number one at the box office was a surprise smash hit, R-rated action movie. It would be called 300.

300. Right. Did you see 300? No, I was too, I heard it was fascist and so I withheld my money. I did not want to promote that ideology. Snyder's response was like, yeah, it was. It's about the fascism of our war in Iraq. Wasn't he kind of saying some shit like that?

It's not my favorite of his movies. My favorite thing is to refuse to see a movie because I've decided it's fascist. Yeah. That's like my hobby. That's good. And then to announce it proudly to everybody. Right, well, we actually-

I never saw Happy Feet 2, actually. I heard it was kind of fascist. There's a lot of fascist movies in this. Number two at the box office, a big family comedy starring Tim Allen and others. Well, it's Wild Hogs, one of the most fascist films of the 21st century. Deeply fascist movie about the lure of motorcycle gangs.

Number three is a adaptation of a young adult classic. Bridge to Terabithia? Yeah, hugely fascist movie, of course. Number four, the box office. The Bridge is too fascist movie, of course. Number four, The Box Office. The Bridge is too fascist. I've never seen it. That's good. I read the book.

Number four is a comic book adaptation. Is it Ghost Rider? Nick Cage in Ghost Rider, kind of a fascist movie. How do you do this, man? Every single time. This is the matrix inside my head. This is why it takes so long for me to respond when you ask me a simple question,

is because I have to shut down the box office page. It's just like running like a crawl in your head all the time. When people ask me what time it is, I'm like, I have to X out of like 17 tabs to get through it. Yeah, the Ghost Rider movie in which Peter Fonda plays the devil, it's kind of a fascist movie. A genuine thing I texted David last night is, you know what I think about a lot?

That Angel Eyes and Shrek came out on the same weekend. It's true, it's a thing I think about way too often. Who gives a shit? Number five of the box office is one of the great films of 2007, David already invoked it many times. It's a holder from 2007. No, no, no. Oh, one of the early films, it's Zodiac?

Zodiac. Yeah. And then you've also got Norbit, fascist, number 23, fascist, music and lyrics, not fascist, Breach, not fascist, Amazing Grace, it'd be rude for me to call the movie about the anti-slavery movement, fascist, not fascist. Okay, funny.

Yeah, so that's what was that. So actually, yeah, not a lot of the movie, but Zodiac you did see. In the theater, I loved it. I think that's probably the only thing, you probably saw, well, The Lives of Others is here, as you mentioned, Pan's Labyrinth, you probably saw that. I love that.

Anti-fascist. Very anti-fascist. It would be really rude to call that fascist. That would be just nakedly anti-fascist. You held a press conference to announce you were going to see that movie. Only high school movie critic David Rees would dare to say that. You'd be like, I see through the video here. Exactly.

We are done. We have podcasted for a long time as we want to do on our David Lynch mini series. People should watch Going Deep with David Reese now seemingly on YouTube. And DickTown. On Hulu. And Election Profit Makers. Can I plug something? Of course you should.

Well, is this coming out before or after the election? What's y'all's schedule? We're going should. Well, is this coming out before or after the election? What's y'all scheduling? Before, definitely after. This is coming out around. Depending on how the election goes, my podcast might still be going. No, come on, you gotta keep it going. We'll see, we'll see. Election Profit Makers is a salve for me every week.

Simpsons talks about it all the time. You and the great John Kimball talking about, you know, skylines and, you know, foot pedals and I don't know, occasionally politics. Every so often. It's great. And, you know, I was getting worried for you guys. Things just felt a little despairing in the Democratic Party area.

That hollowed out feeling. Yeah, it was getting a little linchy. Cholton Joe, but things have changed recently and feel a little more energetic, so that's good. Here's another thing I texted you last night. Our biggest takeaway from 2024 should be that presidential campaigns, it should be illegal for them to be longer than six months. Yeah, it should be like parliamentary elections. The Brits have it right.

Six weeks and out. Let's just race to the finish. You can find all the links to David's work in the episode description. Great. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. It was really fun. It's great to see all you guys again. I'm glad we made it happen in person.

It was a... It was touching though. We'll talk about it one day. We'll talk about it one day. Griffin, take us out. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Bardi for helping to produce the show.

Thank you. Marie's gonna be posting a bunch of images on our social that's been discussed in this episode. Great. And you know what? Hey, why not just get ahead of it and say, we're gonna have a newsletter. It might even exist at this point.

Hey, love it. Let's fucking state that intent on Mike. Hell yeah. Let's make it happen. Let's Babe Ruth it. Be the newsletter we wanna see in the world. Thank you to AJ McKeon for editing the show. He's also our production coordinator. Thank you to JJ Birch for our research. Thank you to Joe Bone, Pat Reynolds for our artwork, Lay Montgomery and the Great

American Novel for our theme song. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit including possibly our newsletter by this point in time Tune in next week for the first chunk of Twin Peaks the return. Is that right? Yeah, that's how we're finishing out the rest of the year. No, I know I just couldn't remember if there was any other I double-checked and left some crazy. No here got moved up in fact I know I'm just saying maybe unless costner wants to sneak it in there. Yeah, right. That's that could happen We'll see what happens. But presumably next week, Twin Peaks,

the return barreling straight into that to finish out Lynch with the end of 2024. Bye bye. Oh, and as always, yes. And as always, bye bye.