Blank Check with Griffin & David - Inside Llewyn Davis with Rachel Zegler

Episode Date: November 2, 2025

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Blank Jack with Griffin and David If it was never new If it was never new and it never gets old then it's a podcast That's nice Thank you. I was wondering if you're going to sing I can't. I point...

And we do have a singer next to us. I point your attention to our guest today. Who? I know. I know. Lenny Bernstein. The dog Lenny Bernstein's been barked up a storm and I daren't sing in front of him. I mean, technically we have two dogs off the leash.

Oh, yeah, that's right. We like to say that Sims is off the leash. Why are you off the leash? I don't know. He called me David Dog. He earned the dog nickname. And then I recently gifted him his own leash. Oh.

Yeah. He does have a leash. We could put... And the way Lenny is like that... You took the leash out and Lenny immediately barked. Yeah. Sorry, Lenny. Sorry, Lenny.

I am not trying to take your out. I'm so sorry, guys. That's for David. It's because David gets rowdy, Lenny. If I get silly, I'm off the leash. He's off. Gotcha. Oh, Lenny, stop.

Sorry, guys. You shouldn't have said that word. They shouldn't have said it. Lenny's here. Yeah. Two dogs off the L are here. O the L. Oh, the L.

Oh, the L. Yeah. That was, you did the line from the movie. That was great. Sorry. I love that line. Yeah. Pottie well, potty cast.

There he goes. Uh-huh, honey, poddy cast. Here's the other thing. He sings so well in this. It's a little annoying when a good singer he is. It is disgusting. It is not, like I have not, in the past, in the intro for this show, butchered songs from movies that are sung well,

but because he does not sing that often, every time I rewatch it, I'm like, Jesus Christ, he's actually this good at singing. Does he sing? and anything else, really? I cannot. He sings in a... Remember.

Putting on my Oscar Isaac hat. It's just very annoying, and I'm very sorry. Ooh, what a charming hat. He is... He is in a film about, like, a high school reunion where he sings, because he plays, like, somebody who went on from high school to become a singer. Okay.

And, like, he was, like, yeah, he's... What is this movie? It's called... Yes, with Channing Tatum. Like, everyone's in this movie, and it doesn't exist. Yes. It's called, oh boy, really boring. Is it called 10 years?

It's called 10 years. Yeah, because it's about a 10-year high school reunion. It's from, like, his, you know, like from like Robin Hood Drive, like his early sucker punch. It's 2011. I imagine it's kind of like one of the first times he did sing publicly in a film. And there's some great, I mean, he does a really great cover of Bob Dylan song in it, weirdly enough. What fucking song is it? He does have, I assume he sings in the still never released,

musical cut of Zach Snyder's soccer punch. Standing in the doorway is the song he sings. Supposedly. No. No? Do we ride to me high? You're right. Okay, there we go. Well, then I don't know. The problem is if you Google Oscar Isaac Bob Dylan, Google is just like, no, it's called Inside Louis. Right. Actually, it's true.

Fair. And you're like, okay. And Bob Dylan is depicted in. He is briefly depicted. Inside Lewin Davis. But I'm looking, I'm not clocking any other movie that I can remember him singing. Why not sing more? Oscar? I honestly, I have to say, I kind of respect it because as somebody who has made her career on something like that, then it just becomes a thing that everybody wants you to do all the time.

Well, it's hard and you're good at it. So people want you to do it. The thing is, I'm just so darn good at it. I have two things to say. He dances, of course, famously, an ex machina. Great dancing, yes. But he's never done a full-blown singing and dancing musical, which we know he can do both. We've tried.

We've tried. There was the longest time he was rumored to be. be doing the Funny Girl Revival for the longest time he's like on stage or on stage? Right, right, right. He'd probably be pretty good. And I certainly think he would be fantastic in literally anything

that he ever tried to do. I agree and we're going to talk about him a lot because it's been an interesting career. God forbid a girl wants to talk about Oscar Isaac. I was about I was about to say like, yeah, no need to threaten Isaac discussion on the inside Louis Davis episode. All the time. You do. He did sing in his

in the sign in Goodney Bruce Stein's window that he did with Stavrajna. Oh, that's right. That's right. I saw that. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, he was fantastic. Two things I want to say.

Two things I want to say. No, you weren't a fan? I mean, you were a fan. I love everything he does. Oh, sorry. I'm a critic. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't criticize her.

He's off the lead right now. He's O-V-L. Oh, the L. Listen to this Londoner. She's saying lead. We don't want to trigger Lenny. He's O-V-L. He may have sung in Moon Night.

I did watch every episode. I loved Moon. He didn't sing in it. But he was very, I'm still waiting on season two of that shit. He's, he loves it. One, I want to say, it does make this movie retroactively even more special that it's like, this is the one time he sings, right? Yeah.

It feels like a thing proprietary to Lewin Davis. Yeah. I talk about this effect so much, but like seeing high fidelity when it came out and when Jack Black sings at the end, you're like, holy shit. That guy can sing. And then I showed it to my sister, who's a little older than you. who had already seen School of Rock and everything. When I was like, you're 14, you're old enough to see high fidelity.

And I was like waiting for her response to the scene. And she's like, yeah, of course, the Jack Black thing. Of course he can sing. Right. Like Lewin Davis, it feels like Lewin Davis, the character can sing. Not that Oscar Isaac can sing because it's not a given that he's going to sing and everything. Right. And you think that because of the point in his career that that film was,

that it would be one of those things that kind of sets the standard for the rest of his career. But he's been very choosy about when he's decided to sing. This is what we're going to talk about. Lenny is eating the mic. Hi, Lenny. This movie comes out. I'm trying to capture it. And I was like, well, here he is.

This is the guy. This is the definitive leading man. Not a single award. What the fuck? Absolutely. But then also the ensuing career has not been, like, exactly. But even more generally, like, you're mad that he's not the most famous actor alive or whatever.

Yes, I'm not about it too, babe. He's obviously done a lot of interesting stuff in good roles. Yes. He's good in everything he does. Now, here's the second thing I wanted to say before I the podcast. Speaking of good things and interesting roles, I was scrolling through the IMDB to try to find, is there any earlier singing role I forgot? And I, I didn't find one, but I did find that his fourth ever credit is a TV movie called Lenny the Wonder Dog. Oh. Oh, that's so true, 2004. Oscar Isaac Hernandez,

he plays the role of Fartman. Excuse me, Griffin, Detective Fartman. I'm so. I'm so sorry. We have to get him on the phone. And the poster, the poster, Lenny the Wonder Dog, looks quite a bit like... Well, it looks like Leonard. You were Lenny. That's his face.

And the tagline is, in quotes, I'm not a cartoon. I really can talk. Wow. Andy Richter is in this Craig Ferguson? Oh, so it's an ink. Oh, my God. In my brain, I was like, oh, this is something that probably came out and, like, was not... It doesn't look like it got an American release.

Directed by Baylor-Tar. It was in English, really? It was a TV film, maybe directly here. It was like it went straight to Hungarian television television. Okay. Like all the best films, do. Oh, my God. Lenny's famous in Hungary.

I'm sorry. Michael Winslow, of course, who is the sound effects guy from Police Academy. All right. We all remember him. Has a story credit on Lending the Wonderdog. Yeah. Sounds good. I need to talk to him about this because this is actually such fascinating.

Like, let's throw this one out. Let's watch that movie and do a live reaction. instead. It's a more important movie to talk about. Oscar Isaac often jokes about his involvement in the production of this picture. In a 2017 interview with the Los Angeles Times, he said, yeah, I was Detective Fartman. That was in Miami. I was just out of high school. I played one of two bumbling officers. No farts ever happened, though, so I'm not sure where the name Fartman actually comes from. It's actually, right. It's a Swedish fartman. Yes. It used to be Fartarvsky. Oh, man. He looks

yeah, he looks like Oscar Isaac, I'll say. He looks, baby-faced, but yeah, it's a good old awesome. We have two guests on the show today. That's right. And I have to introduce the show. It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David.

It's a podcast. David Mime strumming a guitar. And listen to those beautiful. Can you sing again for me? Me? No. I'm David. You're just strumming a guitar and then saying, I'm David.

It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their career. and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. This is a mini-series on the films of Joel and Ethan Cohen, together and separately.

Today we were talking about, I'm ready to say it, upon this rewatch. My favorite film of theirs. Yes. Favorite Cohn Brothers movie. Fuck, yeah. Inside Lewin Davis, which is kind of like a double blank check for them.

Sure. We talked about in the speed at which their work came out. that true grit was kind of a true blank check cash from the success of no country and then true grit is such a blockbuster right they get to do this yes i guess i mean i think this was a pretty modest movie like in terms of budget and scale and all that like as jj points out in the research they had been like one a year on a clip and then there's slowing down yeah yeah and they took their time on this one they they really gave themselves the space and it shows it shows uh it's my

favorite film of theirs is called Inside Lewin Davis. This is a miniseries called No Country Pod Country for old cast. There you go. There you go. Who's our guest? Our two guests today. Guest one. Guest one. He's known as Lenny the Wonder Dog.

Alphabetical order. He's finally calmed down. His head resting on the desk. He's a cutie pie. His name... He's so cute. Is Leonard Bernstein? Yes. Is it actually Leonard Bernstein or is he just Leonard? No, well, so his name is Lenny, but he's named after Leonard Bernstein.

And so he's Leonard Bernstein Zegler. There we go. That's him. LBZ. LBZ? Yeah. And our second guest today returning to the show. Less important.

Well. Lenny is also returning. We were never going to be able to book Lenny without you. So you're equally important in that sense. You're his stage mom. I am. I'm his mama Rose. Avita.

It's me. Rachel Zagler. First Lady of Argentina. Coen Brothers win our March Madness thing. We commit to them. We're figuring out guests. I know you're doing a Vita in London. You are truly doing a show in another country.

Eight times a week. Eight times a week. And you got to go on that balcony. And London isn't warm. No. Or was it sometimes warm? We had a really nice summer, actually. Yeah.

And I didn't get rained on either. Like outside on the balcony, never got rained on. That's wild. Like at least not like in torrential down poor state. Yeah, maybe a little. Like a mist. I mean, London's so misty. Yeah, but I had the most beautiful weather for the balcony.

So, wait, you're during the show actually, like, outside? Every night. Every night, sometimes twice a day. I would go out after intermission, and the act two openers, don't cry from your Argentina. Heard of it? So I ever heard of that song? Yes. So I would go out on the balcony of the Palladium and look over Argyle Street,

and people showed up in droves. So the numbers performed to the people outside the theater and then streamed inside to the audience. And it was such a hot topic of conversation. Is this good? Is this bad? I mean, that was the idea. I mean, narratively makes sense

that she wouldn't sing the song to rich theatergoers. She sings to the people. She sings to the people. And it was like TikTok viral immediately, terrifying every night. I always convinced myself no one was going to come like I was going to walk out

there'd be nobody like it's a farce That was your fear It really was You know because the crowd kind of made the experience on the inside even more amazing because the camera had them on it

Oh right Right right So people would always like It would get applause Inside the theater When the camera would pan To the amount of people That's cool

Because they don't know They're stuck inside Right Our Girl Street is small It's a half street Yeah It's like The Palladium

It's basically just foot traffic There's not a lot of cars in the way it's sort of perfect it feels like an old town square kind of vibe, yeah. And also the paladium, the balcony on the palladium has this big gold crest that has a big pee on it, or peron.

So it actually really worked in our favor. Yeah. It's for, yeah, it's obviously for the palladium. I know, it's for you. But I was like, this is really, this works really well. But yeah, so I was doing that when you texted me. You're doing that production. Yeah. The first show

I saw in the West End when I was nine years old was Oliver at the Palladian. How old were you? Nine or ten. Yeah. And can I ask how many years ago that was? Great question. No, no, no, no, no. It would have been about, it was been about like 95 or 96.

Right. So 30 years ago. Because my sweet boyfriend, his West End debut. Was Oliver? Was Oliver? When he was, I think he was 11 years old. Oh, he was like one of the little guys. Yeah, he was one of the kids.

But it was after that. Yeah. No, I saw, because I'm trying, I was. I looked up what was in the Palladium while I lived in London. So it was Oliver from 94 to 98, and I saw that production. Amazing.

Then it was Saturday Night Fever, which never made it to Broadway, maybe. Maybe it did. It did. It did. Not very successful. Which was a big hit in London, which I saw as well.

I remember when he jumps off the bridge, he like jumps down. Cool. You know, whatever. That's sick. It was cool. King and I, which I saw. Love.

Oh, with Elaine Page, probably. Yes. Yeah. And then chitty, shitty, bang, bang. I don't think I saw that. so that would be it. But I have, you know, yeah, cool. Now they have a Vita. And I played the Palladium twice, too, which was pretty cool.

With your own. My own set and music and pretty crazy. What was your 11 o'clock number? My man. Oh, yeah. I'm funny girl. From the last series that I did with you guys. This is the other thing. So we put the Coen brothers on the schedule. Our Reddit were very normal. I'm sure they were. Start wishlisting guests.

Reddit and normal in the same sentence. And someone pings, friend of the show, past and future guests, Rachel Zegler, very on the record about Lewin Davis being her number one favorite movie of all time. Yes. And I say to David, should we ask Rachel? And David says, first of all,

she's in London, she's doing a Vita, she's doing eight shows a week. Secondly, he was like, it is very funny that we have... Go ahead. This young, like, future-facing star on our podcast, and all three times she's done deprecise.

depressing music movies. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Movies about how, like, musical, chew you up and spit you out. It's true. So, obviously, Cabaret, a star is born. A star is born now, and now inside Louis David.

Right. Three movies basically about, like, depression and failure in the music industry. Yeah. Or in musical theater. Yeah. And, um... Or the pending war. Yes.

Yeah, well, it's true. Yes. Um, I text you, you respond immediately. Yeah. I say, Cohen Brothers on blank check. And you just all caps go, like, Lou and Davis. And I was like, yeah, absolutely.

And it's just been months of trying to find, like, truly the three-day window. She's here. I'm here. No problem. Dog here. Everything going great. But it's been months of just, like, without stress.

No. The date's going to arrive. We're going to find the window. It's leading. It was all leading up to this. It's all leading up to this. But, no, I mean, even when you, when you texted me, like, and we put down a date.

Yes. And I was like, at that point, I wasn't doing my two shows. the palladium. So I thought you were going to have a big cushion. I thought I was going to be home. But then London fell in love with you. But then I really fell in love with London. Both directions. Yeah, it was awesome. But you basically auto-completed the request before I even had the chance to ask. Yeah, you don't have to ask me. You said just when and where. Yeah. Because I never get, you know, like, in these interviews that you do when you have the job that I have. Yes. You get to ask what your favorite movie is, but you never get asked why. And you never get to sit there

and explain why it's so fucking genius. Lewin Davis, I love it. And they're like, that rocks. Oscar Isaac. Yeah, cool. You love Oscar Isaac. Anyway, like, you know, do you shower at night or in the morning

or whatever else. Literally that. Literally that. Literally that. I had Jack Antonov tell me that it's not even in the top five Cohen Brothers movies in Cosmopolitan. And I was like, not only are you loud,

you're wrong. And it's like... I mean, this has been the nightmare this whole series as I try to like update the list in real time. I've seen all these movies many times. But upon these rewatches, things are moving around, right? And by the way, life comes with different perspective.

Absolutely. And every Coen Brothers movie plays different to me every time I watch it. I like them all, but they all, like, unfold different things. I find different things in them. Yeah. That's not even top 10. He says not even top 10. Is that what he said top 10?

Yeah, he says that's not even top 10. I'm glad it made it into the actual final cut of the article. Insane. Yeah. We're going to do our ultimate. to Jack A, but my God. We're going to do our ultimate ranking in the Buster Scruggs episode, but I was trying to arrange my letterbox list in prep, right?

Last night, like, doing some rough drafting. And I was like, the shit that's outside of my 10 is insane. I'm sorry. And it looks rude, but it's insane. Look how upset. You are overpowering Antonoff in this. I'm sorry, you're crushing him. He goes like, I like Dune.

Who's in that, Oscar Isaac? And you say, are you just going to name all the Oscar Isaac movies? You're just slamming him against the one. But that's how Jack and I, we're from New Jersey. It's like, that's love. It's banter. That's us showing love to each other. He says it's about, you say it's about Javier's comedic timing, which you're right.

And he says, no, it's about the ships. And you say, that's wrong. It's actually about the worms. It's not about the ships. It's about the worms. No one watches dunes and go, do it and goes great ships. I'm sorry, the worm showed up to the BAFTAs. We love those.

I was there, or was that the Oscars? They were at. Conan had the worm playing the piano at the Oscars, which I loved. Was that this year? That was this year. Yeah. I was there, yeah. I can't fucking remember.

Everything. This year, this year, if you Google my year, nothing feels real. Sure. But like, you could say in casual conversation with someone, what's the movie with the space worms? Yeah. It's going to be Dune. It's going to be Dune. What's the movie with the spaceships?

I'm going to say Star Wars. Dune is like your 40th answer. You presented the Oscar to Dune. I did. Because you did visual effects. I've done it twice now. That's funny. They have, I've done special effects twice.

Like, visual effects twice. And Dune has won both. Right. So, Lenny's ass is now on the mic. Let's be honest. Do you know what's cooler than presenting an Oscar to Dune? Presenting an Oscar to Dune twice? I was going to say Dune two times.

Nice. Did you see this movie when it came out? Oh, sure. Did I? Yes. So I couldn't see it in theaters because it was rated or and I was 12 years old. This unfortunately is the question I had to ask

and I needed to get that answer out of the way. But I was the same, when it came out on digital, I saw it almost immediately, and I shouldn't have. I was too young. But I was 13 years old and in my head I was already a struggling musician, which is hysterical now looking back. So I saw it quite young and I was obsessed

and I watched it like every day of my like freshman year of high school. One might say this is an interesting movie for a freshman in high school to become obsessed with. Just because it's about a guy who's gotten this shit beaten out of him, right? Immediately. Yes.

And you're just like... And physically. Right. Yeah. And physically. Right. Actually gotten the shit beat out of him. Yeah.

Yes. I was going to say this is the kind of movie that gets an R rating. Not even because it's incredibly inappropriate, but just because it's like, kids shouldn't see this. Sure. He says fuck four times. Yeah.

I mean, like I don't think, right. There's not much. It really is just for language. There's no nudity. And honestly, the, content isn't even that crazy. No, no. It's really just like language and suicidal ideation,

but even though the suicidal ideation isn't in your face. It's more sexual. The cult reality of pursuing the arts. I would say that is rated R. Exactly. Right. Yeah. And that's my 14-year-old.

Rated R for hard truths. That's my 14-year-old, you love it. 14-old me was like, yeah, fuck yeah, dude. This shit sucks. Tell me I'm doomed. Exactly. Do you think it helped you? Because you have weathered a lot of storms in your young career.

What are you talking about? I'm sorry. Let me check my notes here. Can you expand? Everything has gone well. No, we've talked about it in the past on and off Mike, but you've had this fascinating career like shot out of a cannon with like incredible high highs and then everything seems to have like an ensuing storm around it in one way

or another. And I'm constantly impressed with how well you were able to keep your head on your shoulders and like process stuff and weather stuff. Thank you. Do you think, like, it is stuff like this that you were preparing yourself for, like, the harsh reality of it rather than some golden, like, version? There is, certainly there's an aspect of, like, lessons learned from movies like this that come out, like, you know. And a star is born in Cabaret. And all that jazz.

Like, those movies really do prepare you for, like, rejection and feeling like you're in a rut and living the same day over and over and over and over again. And, yeah, I think there's certainly aspects of that. I think watching it during those storms was very helpful. So it is a movie you will, like, revisit as a comfort film. I see it. I watch it an embarrassing amount of times per year. The last time I watched it was like New Year's Eve this year. Like I ushered in the New Year watching this movie, which is not something you should do.

But it kind of makes sense to me. But I was alone on New Year's. I was like left behind by a guy. What's the fun. And it was like one of the first. of those things where I went, I'm just going to go home. I'm going to watch my favorite movie and I'm going to cry. And I don't know if you remember this year. We had like that amazing like lightning and thunderstorm this year on New Year's. And so it was like watching it in the comfort of my like

cozy New York apartment, lightning and thunder in the background, Oscar Isaac wailing with a guitar. It was awesome. It is a damp blanket of a movie. This movie is so comforting to me. And yet I've seen so many times. I had not seen in a couple years. years. But especially in the years after it came out, I saw this like three or four times in theaters. I kept re-watching it once it came out on Blu-ray. But I hadn't watched it in a couple years. And I forgot how intricate the web of his mistakes is. Oh my God. Yeah. And so I'm like so comforted by the movie and its rhythms and the beats. And I was doing the fucking Leo point to my girlfriend of being like, here's the line. The line's about to come up kind of stuff. Yeah.

With that too. He doesn't see a lot of money in this. But then there were so many moments where I would like grab my skull and squeeze it and I'm like oh fuck I just remember what he's about to do yeah he's about to say the dumbest thing he's about to ask Justin Timberlake that moment for money astounded for an abortion for his wife he got pregnant yes yes it's crazy like it's he maybe got pregnant he probably did but you know by the end of the movie you don't know and that's what's amazing about it yeah oh I love this fucking movie it's one of the best movies. It really is.

I'm jealous for anyone who got to see it in a theater. I'm always waiting on a re-release. When I finally get my ass in that Criterion closet, it's the first one I'll go to. Oh, we got to get you in there.

I know. It's my dream. But I do have the Criterion collection copy of it. Yes. And I had a, my laptop case is like the cat on the waiting on the student.

The Criterion cover is the cat with the guitar case. And that's my laptop case. Have you watched the thing on the Blu-ray that is Guillermo del Toro talking to the Coen brothers. No.

It's like 40 minutes long. I sent it to everyone in the blank check group text last night from some shady Russian website. It's hard not to like be charmed by

of course like Gierma. I feel like he'll just get anyone talking. Have you seen that new tweet that he sent out when somebody was like Guillermo del Toro is like a, he's like just a girl

because he makes all these things that he wants to make of a lot and he said like that is me. Like he responded that is me Then they were asking him about it on the Frankenstein carpet about why he's just a girl And I love him, he gets it He's so infectious and he's so knowledgeable

And he's so good at speaking about film And he's clearly so in love with the Cohen brothers And I watch the interview and it feels to me like The most open I have ever seen them be Because they're usually so cagey And don't want to like overanalyze their films And the fact that it's like he's one of them

and they're able to throw questions back at them. But there's the key quote in that thing where they go, when it came out, people asked us how did you decide to make a movie about an unsuccessful folk singer? And they were like, it was only being asked that question

that for the first time we realized we had never even considered the idea of making a movie about a successful folks. It never would cross our mind. That's fantastic. Yeah. Yes.

And automatic. Yeah. So, okay, so Rachel, right, you fall in love with this movie as a teenager. Griffin, I assume you saw this in theaters. I sure did too. I remember getting in a big, excited discussion about it with J.D. Amato, friend of the show at Lincoln Park. Remember that bar? Yep.

It was called Lincoln Park, right? Yeah, Lincoln Park, the bar named after the band. But not the town in New Jersey. Where you're from. Where Ben is from. So Lincoln Park, of course, means many things to many people. emo band. Yeah, I've become so numb.

I can't feel you there. You know how it is. I'm crawling in my skin. But, no, where J.D. and I were, like, agreeing about, like, how it's, like, about how creativity is iterative. And it's like, you do so much and you accomplish so little. But then things barely do change and, like, that, you know, like, that's, I just remember very animated. No, I, I, that was the bar we'd go to after Chris Getherd show.

Yes. I remember having an almost identical conversation with J.D. at the Creek in cave, I think after Getherd's album taping, possibly. It's when he recommended film spotting to me for the first time because we couldn't stop talking about this movie and he was like, you should listen to their episode on this. I think that's when I first started listening to them. But the same thing of like, you know, J.D., who's very heady about this stuff, being

like, careers are these series of like branching opportunities. You have these cycles of like there's an opening and suddenly there's a path to be able to build your life and be recognized. And this movie is all about that loop and a guy who keeps on making every incorrect decision over and over again. Yeah. So I've got a question for all the gamers out there. Are you seriously going to miss out on Alienware's biggest gaming sale of the year?

I mean, these are Black Friday prices we're talking about. So it's not, quote, just another sale. I took a look, and this is some pretty big bang for your buck. You know, it's Alienware. I have an Alienware PC myself that I use for gaming. There's got some of the most advanced engineering out there with systems at the top of reviewers' lists. And what about a gift for yourself? You can gift yourself a new Alienware 16 Aurora Gaming laptop.

I mean, this thing's got performance at the absolute next level with Intel core processors. And even better, you can get it during Black Friday, starting at 899.99 plus you can save on all. kinds of displays and accessories like the Alienware 32 4K QD-O-LED gaming monitor for ultimate visual fidelity. These really are incredible deals on PCs with otherworldly performance. So I'd visit Alienware.com slash deals soon and grab what you can before their biggest sale of the year goes dark. That's HTTP colon backslash, back slash alienware.com slash deals. We love it. We love it.

It's a good movie. Should I open the dossier? What should I do? I think let's go straight to the dossier. Okay, all right. So look, Cone Brothers, they make a bunch of movies. Do you like the Cohn Brothers? Do you like the Cohn brothers?

This is a good question. Burn after reading is the film. There you go. Fucking fantastic. Had you seen other films of theirs before you saw this? Definitely not. I feel like everything of theirs made an R rating before. Right?

Yes. Yes. Yes, 100%. They're almost all ours. Yeah, and I was certainly too young. I feel like the first one I watched after Inside Lewin Davis was burnt after reading.

Right. Which is so great. It's such a great fucking movie. So the Coins after they do true grit are kind of chilling. They're pretty tired. There was one report that they were going to do a TV

show with Phil Johnston, the guy who wrote Cedar Rapids and Ralph breaks the internet. Ben. Hey. He loves Ralph breaks the internet. Damn. It was called Harvey Corbo.

It was an hour-long single-camera comedy about a Los Angeles P.I. I don't know. Nothing ever came of this. But they did. Funny to think that they consider TV. It's a likely thing for them to consider, though. Like, that synopsis enough is enough for me to be like, yeah, the Cohen brothers probably thought they were going to do that. They did four movies in four years, four movies in five years?

Uh, sure. Yeah. Four and four and four. I think. Yeah. Right. So there is that sort of like, and it was this, as we've talked about, the spurt of creativity where like a serious man and burn after reading are written around the same time that they're adapting no country. When that's a hit, they're like getting automatic green lights on everything. Yeah, of course. Then it's the real, if you could do anything, what would you do? They pick true grip. But it's like, they're just constant motion. Yeah. But so they're sitting around as they do when they write. And Joel says, all right, well, how about this? Folk Singer gets beat up in the alleyway behind Gertie's Folk City. And then they're like, well, why would someone beat up a folk singer? But they can't let it go.

And so they return to this idea every so often. This thing that often happens with their films where they have an idea they can't resolve. And they go, like, put that on ice. And anytime we have writers blocked for something else, we'll go back to it and see if we can iterate on it. So they like the idea, this notion of someone who's not successful, but not because they're not good. Right? So tell a story about like a folk musician who's like a failure but is good. and so that's interesting.

Yes. Because, like, no one's... Everyone, like, thinks Lewin is talented, right? Even, but Grossman, it's just kind of like, yeah, but what's your thing? How do you fit into the world? Going back to the... It is surprising how good Oscar Isaac is a singing thing.

It's almost within the structure of the movie that, like, what, he performs maybe once every 10 to 15 minutes? And in the time in between, the guy is... such a self-destructive mess. He's so rancid that you're like, that you're like, he must not be that good on top of this. And then he breaks out of guitar and you're like, fuck, this guy is just getting

in his own way. Yeah. The way Ethan puts it is we wanted a nice dick. Now, I don't think he means the guy's penis. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. He means someone who blows his top, speaks out a turn, says something really dickish. And then three minutes later is like, I'm a dick

for doing that. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, is self-aware, but cannot help. but be kind of a dick. And Dave Van Runk is the guy they quickly alight on where they're like, right, this was the guy in the folk scene where everyone was like, he's talented. He's one of a kind. He is a tough hang.

He is always making mess for himself. But my God, he was so fucking talented. Right. The mayor of McDougal Street. I assume that's the book. Oh, Chronicles. Chronicles. In the first chapter, he talks about meeting Dave for the first time.

It's a really just short little moment here. They're hanging out. And he asks him, how can I get a gig like working at the gaslight? And Binronk looked at me curiously with Snippy and Surly and asked if I did janitor work.

Damn. Bob Dylan famously easy to get along with. Yeah. Both famously chill guys. Very normal chill men. Really easy to talk to it. Yeah. Right, right.

Yeah. But of course, Dylan played a song and he was impressed. Yeah, of course. To be able to get like some gigs. I mean, did Bob Dylan, how did that career pan out?

you know what? I just got into the chapter one. I'm not really sure how it pansed out. Dude, I don't want to spoil it, but you're going to love what happened. Chronicles is, we don't need these things anymore. I guess we have phones, but that was an awesome bathroom book. Because you just pick it up and you just get like, you know, five good minutes of Dylan music. Yeah. Anyway. It's like, it's like the Joan Didians, the white album. Where you're like, I'll get a couple essays about in the 1970s. A little bite size. Yeah. Dave Van Runk. Now, Lewin is nothing like Van Runk really in the movie. apart from that kind of status.

Like, Dave Van Runk was gigantic. Yes. He was Swedish. Right. If you've listened to him, he has this, like, really hoarse, kind of awesome, gravelly voice, not this, like, beautiful little voice that Oscar has.

He's mostly Irish. He just has the name. I feel like that was something he, like, said about himself. Right. So he was a Swedish guy. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Swedish stock, maybe.

Because he was big. Yeah, he was big. When the Korn Brothers announce a movie, they usually do not explain a lot. You know, you know the cast. you maybe know the title, but it's a working title. Maybe you know the setting. A working title production.

And so they'll be rampant online movie nerd speculation from fucking idiots like us. And it feels like until the trailer comes out, you don't actually really know what the movie is. And because they've been working at such a fast clip and then this movie shot and then they had a really long post-production, they were like, we don't want to rush it. There was like three years of mystery around it that the early words were like, they've cast Oscar Isaac, this like young, semi-unknown actor, it's about the folk music scene. It's New York in the 60s.

I remember early Dave Von Runk being like thrown out there as like it's maybe kind of based on him. And people thought it was more of a biopic or even if it was fictionalized, it was lightly fictionalized. And I think that has created an issue perhaps for the Dave von Runk legacy where people still kind of assume the movie

is more closely based on his personality, where he was difficult in a way that's very different than Lewin Davis, that they really use it as a jumping off point of like, who's the other guy, right? That, like, I think what they're obsessed with is the idea of, like, reading Bob Dylan's biography and for 98% of the public,

you're like, man, this name comes up 800 times and I've never heard of this guy before. Who's the one guy in the scene who didn't become Totemic? Right. Right. And that's, I think it's a totally fair, like, jumping off point for a film to be. made. And really, they just kind of based his

look, you know, like beard, shaggy hair, this is the Jackety War, and they have the same album cover. It's jumping off. Yeah. Because Dave Van Rock's album cover is the same as, like, the inside album cover that he shows to F. Marie Abraham. Yes. And similar repertoire, too. A lot of the songs

Yeah, Green, Green Rock. Rode is a Dave Van Rung. We're like traditional songs that he played as well. If you listen to his dink song is fairly well, it's so different because his voice is different. It's very cool. It's so, like, raspy and cool. But, like, I'm pretty sure, I don't know if I'm fairly certain this is a true story, that Oscar wasn't super good at guitar before this job. No, he was not. And then he met Dave Van Ranks, like, somebody who had either learned from

him or had played with him randomly at a bar in the village, and he took him upstairs and taught him how to play guitar. And if you watch Oscar, I mean, if you've ever watched Oscar play guitar. It's insane. He's doing something weird with how he plucks it. Yes. And that is because that is how Dave used to play. You play the guitar. I do play the guitar. And I also similarly learned for a film. Which films did you play like double neck base, right? My dad can. Really? Yeah, actually. But no, I learned for the Hunger Games ballad of songbirds and snakes. I learned from a woman who did not speak any English. Wow. What did you? Music, the universal language in many ways. You shot that in...

I shot it in Poland and in Germany. But I did learn and I played live for the movie. So Oscar Isaac was basically... You're welcome. He was like a dorm room. After we saw Gladiator together, I was like, remember that? Gladiator, too. This story is shifted to after we saw Gladiator together.

After we saw Gladiator 2, which was a movie, that came out. I just remember texting being a Clu Secret Barrett would have kicked all these guys asses. Because it's all arena fighting. It is. And I did it in heels. That's right. And address. Correct the story.

We saw it together. We saw it in the same IMAX theater. Someone points to you and goes, isn't that Rachel Zegler? And you go, oh yeah, and you text her and then you talk. Yeah. It wasn't like, hey.

And we talked over text. We also talked over text about. Did we see each other in person though? Like I remember, I stood up and I waved. We said hi. I cannot remember if we actually. I was with Kit Connor. You were with Kit.

My sweetie pie. Yes. You're just framing it almost as if you texted Rachel. We hugged out. We went to the quad. Hey, bitch. Want to go see Glad to. He said.

And that is... I just did a G-I-I. It's time. And sent her a Fandangling. Exactly. Enter the arena. Yeah. Sure.

Yeah. Um, anyway, what was the point about this? He learned how to play guitar for this. I was going to say, was he basically, like, a dorm room guitarist, like, he had, like... I'm fair. Yeah, like, he had... He had a scob punk band named Blinking Underdogs. That doesn't shock me at all.

One ticket. No, that's a great... Yeah. That's a great name. Are you kidding? They opened for Green Day, so apparently... Oh, great, no fucking way. Had a little bit of success.

That's amazing. Yeah. Because obviously, DJ Katrana, who's... Yes. A friend of the show. A friend of the show. King of memes. How is he in hoping on the show?

King of memes. He actually wants to know why he's never been on the show. We got to hang out with him first. Yes, let's hang out with him. We're on email thread with him. I know. And he says that he's really upset that you guys aren't meming back with him. Because he made...

He's better at making memes. I know, guys. This is why we became friends, people. suffer from fast brain is what we say. Look, I don't think we're allowed to talk about Shadow League, but let's just say we're in a very active email script. It's fucking awesome. Based around movie nerdery. And I was

the puppeteer for DJ last season. I do know this because... You know that? I know this. I don't know if you want to take credit for what you helped him with, but... I did reveal... He revealed me in a very funny way. I can't remember when it was, but... But he will make bespoke memes off of the thing that just happened in the email thread.

He's disgusting in that way. Very fast and very well. He pisses me Yeah. I can't make you that good. He is very good friends with Oscar. He's the reason I've met him and essentially Oscar used to live on his couch and in L.A. They were all

just broke together in Los Angeles. And so he's like, do you realize how many fucking times I had to tell him to stop rehearsing for that fucking movie? Oh, for this. Yeah, because it was just to be like all the time playing green, green, Rocky Road. And so like, and me,

avid fan of this film, I have the record on my vinyl player, essentially at all times. I'm always playing it. And DJ would just kind of stop coming over. I can never hear these songs again. He can't enjoy the movie. I would, I would listen to Oscar pluck that guitar all day and night. That's the thing. You have no, I was like, you don't understand how lucky you were. You got to hear a Oscar worthy performance. True. I agree. Fucking disappointed that he was not. Not even nominated. Or a Golden Globe. He got a Globe NOM. But why didn't he win?

Why don't you give him yours? Fine. That's what you should do. I didn't get to accept mine in person. Goving Rames mode. You got it the one year the globes were canceled. It should be two. Oh, were there two?

There's the insane fucking sag strike year. Oh, sure. I think it's the 2008. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where it was like a half hour entertainment tonight special where they showed photos and they were like, and the winner is Johnny Depp. Anyway, next category. I'm so sorry.

I won via a tweet. I win. Yeah, that was... You had it weird. Lenny's sitting. So, the Coens... Lenny's had attention. He's being very good boy.

The Coens are like, all right, folk singer, Dave Van Rock, this is all interesting. The world is so interesting to us. We can't really think of much of a plot. So we're writing something without an engine, right? There's no, like, narrative drive to this movie.

So we'll just follow him for a week and not much will happen, and that's going to be okay. Which is, I suppose, a bit of a risk. And when you think about, like, burn after reading true grit, Like, these are very plotty movies. Yeah. And so...

Yeah, like, every five minutes, there's a new twist. But it concerned them so much that they threw the cat in. Is how they put it. Now, obviously... Lenny. Just be a little quiet. Look, we're going to have to discuss a cat in this. Lenny loves cats.

Lenny loves cats. Yes, they say that in the criterion thing that they were... Like, we got so concerned with the lack of a plot that they were just like... And they thought, gelicals can and gelicles do. I mean... And so they threw in a cat. That's why this is a good New Year's Eve movie because it's about a jellicle ball.

That's so true. But if an animal is in even the slightest danger or whatever, like it does kind of keep you engaged in that weird way of Save the Cat shit. It's the hilarious thing that then the plot really did become the cat. Yes. And like the phrase. Yeah. And that's why my favorite thing when people are trying to figure out what the movie's about,

there's a great scene where he's on the phone trying to get in touch with the gore finds. and he's talking to the, I guess, the office, whoever it is at the desk. And he's like, tell him that Lewin has the cat. And she goes, Lewin is the cat. He's no, no, I'm Lewin. I have his cat. Yeah.

And the plot is Lewin is the cat. It's fucking awesome. But also, we can think, oh, there's much of discussion. There's so much, like, so many ideas of what the cat represents, I feel like. I know, people think that it's, yes. People think that it's Mike. It's Mike. It's his grief.

It's his, you know, anyway, care you know. No, I think on a very simple level, it's just that the cat is the only thing bigger than him. It is the only thing outside of himself that drives him, right? It's the only thing he seems to care about. In a weird way, it's like the cat. And he has literally knocked someone up and has a family elsewhere and has a career he's trying to start or whatever. Yeah. But the cat is the only thing in the entire movie that supersedes whatever his impulses are at any given moment.

Right. He'll be selfless to try to save the cat. It's not even, well, yeah, but it's almost like not even selfless. It's just like some weird survival mechanism comes in. Like, you know, I find the moment where he stares at the poster of the incredible journey outside the theater. Right. The homework bound. Yeah.

So, like, impactful and very moving. And it's sort of this notion of like, this cat's been on this whole movie that I'm unaware of, right? like he's looking at this like Disney movie poster and this tagline and being like I've been caught up in my own shit and stressed about the cat the cat just went and did something and came back you know and none of it had to do with me Cohen's start casting they want a musician who can act they don't want an actor who can sing like they're looking for a musician who can act

they say they only auditioned real musicians I wonder who Justin Vernon and Bonnie Vair is one that they do say Boney Verre, which sort of makes sense. That does make sense. Someone recently talked about having audition for this. I feel like now that it's been over 10 years on this movie, that it's not tacky to talk about it. People in promo tours will talk about it,

and there are a lot of stories about people being like, I fucking bombed that audition. Well, who you are talking about is Ryan Reynolds said, literally that he bombed the audition for Inside Lewin Davis. There's no way it was for Lewin. It's what he says. It has to be for, what is it, Jim? Maybe.

That makes sense. My memory, and it was part of like this movie being. Sorry. Amashting a Ryan Reynolds, Lewin Davis is crazy right now. Yeah. And there would be a voiceover being like, yep, that's me. Sitting on that stool here. Casey Affleck talks about bombing it.

I could see that. To play Lewin. Sure. I could see him bombing that. I could absolutely see him bombing that. There's some other people. He picked up a gun and said he couldn't do it anymore and they had to wrestle out. It's like, man.

Connor Oberus says that he auditioned. That makes sense. A lot of people auditioned. Right. They took their net into the emo pool, the sort of like singer-songwriter pool. They didn't like anything they found. But I think they had the sort of Armageddon problem of,

is it easier to teach a musician to act or an actor to sing? Well put. And they started, thank you, with the like, let's get a singer. And none of them were up for the acting part of it. And then they were like, fuck, I guess we go to actors. And none of them could handle the singing. and it's the lead role in the movie. It's the lead role.

And the whole point is that like very similar. I mean, weirdly to bring it back to like a cabaret thing where it's like, why isn't Liza Minnelli breaking out of this club? She's so fucking good. Right, right. Like, it's very much like that in this movie. That's the other thing is you're like, the vibe has to be so right. I'm sorry.

I have to quote by an Affleck on the Armageddon commentary now that you've invoked it because obviously Armageddon is... The second Affleck mentioned. Correct. is that like it's easier to train oil drillers to operate a space shuttle than it is to train space shuttle operators to operate an oil drill.

A space shuttle operators. Space shuttle pilots. Astronauts is what I would call them. And when Affleck on the commentary is just like, how hard can it be? Aim the drill at the ground and turn it on. Right. And think about it all, but he's so disdainful.

All that. He played an oil driller in the movie. It's the most Boston thing ever. Yes. But I think that's part of the problem of it is like material. a film I like a lot and defend with my whole chest. Good for you.

Thank you. Very proud of my heart. Has this core issue, and I remember asking you this when you saw it, where I was like, in what universe is to go away with Chris Evans being a loser? Right. That he's like an unsuccessful actor, right? There's silence in the room. Yes, no, but right.

It's a movie where, you know, Pedro Haskalo, is the rich, successful guy, but Chris Evans is like, yeah, I can't get my life together, right? You know, right. How does he get away with that? Right. And my thing with that movie is, like, it needs to do a little more work to characterize the ways in which he's

self-defeating, which you can do because if he looks like that, people are begging him to do like a fucking LLB in catalog shoot at the very least. He'll be all right. I was begging Chris Evans to do that after Knives out because of that sweater. Yes. Sell me that sweater, Chris. They'll bite off your back. And I did.

You can see that, though, if they're auditioning musicians, you're just like, you are so talented that it doesn't matter how difficult you are. The audience will think this guy should be successful. And you can also see actors playing the difficulty of it, but not being good enough as a musician where you're like, why would anyone put up with him for even a second? It is such a tough balance to strike of this kind of guy, we all know, where you're like, it sucks that he's talented. Oscar Isaac, of whom you speak, though. of who it also sucks that he's talented Juliard Grad Rachel

Juilliard grad Is he actually? I didn't know that Yes he is Of course Yeah him and what Chestain Yeah

They were same class That was very disrespectful But they've done like Four things together Yeah they did the scenes From a marriage So much sad sex in that movie Was that the show they did on Broadway

They did a show on Broadway They did They did Because she popped a little before him She did She did Give him a rest He's doing his best

Yeah. Well, that's the thing. He's also, like, not white. And it just takes us, it takes us a second. Absolutely. Shout out to Latinos. Jessica Chastain, very white. God bless her.

I enjoy, I like her. Good for her. A tremendous talent. Very white. Oscar auditions. He plays the guitar for them. And they're like, oh, are you like, he's like, I've been playing it since I was a kid. And they were like, all right.

And T. Bone Burnett, who obviously, their close collaborator on all the music, was like, he's great. He plays the guitar better than something. people I know. And they were like, great. We're casting him. My memory also in this period, just not to interrupt you, was that it felt a little similar to the true grit thing, where there was this feeling of like, they still can't find the guy. Yeah, it was getting a little sweaty of like, Jesus, like, we do need a lead actor for this movie to make sense. And they're actually not going to go ahead if they don't have somebody in the clock is taking. Studio Canal

funded the entire thing, $17 million. They were making it essentially kind of independently. Yeah, 17 million. Right. Wow. Pretty crazy. Eric Franzen is the guy you're talking about Rachel who he met at the old gaslight and like... I love being right. And like helped him prepare and taught him it's called Travis Picking

which is according to Oscar Isaac a very complicated syncopated style of playing that's kind of like ragtime piano you use the thumb as the metronome I mean I don't know I don't play guitar none of this makes any sense to me sounds hard Hey I get it and of course he was in the punk ska band

Blinking on And he says, like, any time that act looked like it was getting remotely successful, something would happen to fuck it up. And it was like Lewin Davis-esque. So that's interesting. I do think the Cohen should do a Lew and Davis sequel set in the world of ska. Yeah. And I'm in it.

Yeah. Everyone's like, you're going to go, do, do, do, do, I don't, Ben, you help me. I don't know. Which one? I think maybe third wave. Great. Is that 90s? Place in the late 90s, like, yeah.

Mighty, mighty boss tones. Real big fish Yeah, yeah Oh yeah Less than Jake Kind of Asked maybe band I will say

When he got cast In this movie Obviously I'm obsessed With the Coen brothers And to me He was like Yeah he's like I was like

Right He kind of popped in Robin Hood Like I didn't know I mean he was in drive But he's nasty In that movie He had been a guy

Who was starting To kind of pop in things There's You'd notice him Like he's good in My much invoked The Bourne legacy He has a great part in that

Which that is he was one of like 20 people on the list for the lead I know the story here please share he heard himself learning at a skateboard

and showed up showed up to an audition to be the lead in an action film why was he learning at a skateboard asked DJ Katrina when you have him on the show

okay it's happening DJ it's happening he and DJ were going to play skateboarding cops who solve history well no DJ is like a really really great at skating and

I think sweet Oscar just wanted to learn but decided to do it right before a really big callback. I'm so embarrassed. I just have to correct myself. The third wave scott started in the late 80s. Oh, Jesus, man. I'm really fucked up. Well, now the whole thing's fuck.

It's more like the specials. We have to start over. Yes. Yeah, who's that? The two-tone sort of, yeah, UK sort of era. So is Boston's fourth wave? It's fucking wave. I looked it up. It's argued. How many waves? I don't. think we've, like, firmly established the fourth.

Oh, okay, all right. We're still riding the third, I guess. I don't know. It's like the Messiah. We're like, this fourth wave will come one day. I just have to make sure the one guy who cared, I corrected myself. Can I also quickly a pitch a buddy movie starring DJ and Oscar Isaac called Scott boarding? They definitely want to do it.

They're skateboarding Scott guys. I'm seeing, you're getting a budget of $5. Yeah, especially now in this economy. The economy of filmmaking, yes. You get $5 and a dream for Scott boarding. Now, look, they rehearsed for like a week, but this, it's pretty intense because they, you know, the performances are live. Like, these are not dubbed lips and later. And, you know, it's fucking complicated.

Can we just do this Oscar Isaac quickly? Okay, okay, his career, yes. So, like, he has some, like, young, like, teen roles. Then he goes to Juilliard, right? Then it's sort of, like, reemerging as a serious actor. He's post-Fartman now, right? May we all someday be in our post-Fartman era? Yes.

Nativity's story is Catherine Hardwick right after, or right before Twilight, I'm sorry. But it's sort of right after Passion of the Christ, and they're like, these are now going to be all the rage. I think Lenny's hearing people outside. Lenny thinks he's guarding. Lenny also didn't like the nativity story. Which, yeah, Lenny's Jewish. This makes sense. I mean, he is.

He's Leonard Bernstein. Lenny, come here. Oh, the idea. that your dog, because of his namesick, is culturally Jewish enough to resist Christmas. He thinks it's a little suspicious. He doesn't understand putting a Christ in Christmas. He likes commercial Christmas. Right, right.

He likes at Coca-Cola Christmas. And ho-ho-ho and jingle bells and presents for pretty girls. Post Passion of the Christ, when that was such a phenomenon, and everyone was like, this is the future. They make this big budget intivity story with Keisha Castle Hughes and Oscar Isaac as Mary and Joseph. And there was a big push behind it and a totally belly flop. But that was kind of his first push as a leading man. Then there's sort of this run you're talking about of like body of lies.

He's really good in and a small role is kind of like a scummy guy, chab. Yeah, he's good in that. He was only someone where you would notice him. He'd pop in like the eighth or tenth role in a thing. So then he starts to become one of these guys on these casting lists of like projects where they may be interested in like launching a new leading man and trying to bump someone up. Born Legacy was that, where before they decided to go to then King of the Franchise is Jeremy Renner,

there was a list of like 20 younger actors where they were like, do we cast it with someone who's on the brink of breaking out? Sucker Punch is one where people were like, who the fuck is this guy? I mean, he pops in that movie. It's not a movie I love. But then it's like Drive, W.E.

Like, he's in this zone. I really enjoy him in Robin Hood. By the way, a movie I stick up for. I think that's Tom Blight's first film credit. He must have been a little baby. He's like a little feral child in it. Wonderful. I'm fairly certain that's true.

But he is very good and born legacy, but it's like... It's a consolation prize. Yeah, he's one of the other guys. We liked you, we're going to have you, like... You get to kind of run the movie for eight minutes. But he's literally, like, a failed, you know, Jeremy Renner, right? Like, he's called Outcome Number Three. Like, he's like one of the other ones that didn't turn into a born or whatever.

But that's basically right before. And you are correct that he, Tom Blithe is... literally credited as feral child. Oh, my God, I knew it. In Ridley Scott's Robin Hood. Yes, Angel. I just imagine, like, Ridley Scott walking around with a big cigar and then they open a door. And they're like, these are the feral children.

There's just like a bunch of kids. He's like, uh, that one and that one. All right, moving on. Um, Oscar is not a method guy, but he is kind of infamously an obsessive research guy. So I'm just like, how does he get that good at the songs in a week? But I think he just goes turbo mode. Because, yes, that's his way. They filmed this in 2011 or 2012?

I believe it's 2012. Great question. The answer is, I don't know. Because I was pulling up some articles at the time from like... Yeah, principal photography, early 2012. Summer 2012, when the movie was in the can and people were like, is it going to come out this year? And everyone had the note of like, the Coins don't want to rush this. They're sitting on it.

They're taking their time in the edit. It's done, but they're not going to push it out this Oscar season. And because they knew whenever they decided to release the movie, that would become Oscar season. Oscar Isaac season. And one person clapped, and it was the person who made the joke. You're going out on a balcony? He's on his fine legs clapping. We're just seeing Griffin live stream that joke.

Lenny is tears in his eyes. Big strong dog. To be fair, I am holding a giant bone in the air. Oscar Isaac, good quote from him. I thought a lot about the comedy of resilience and why sometimes we find someone going through hardship funny. Happens in Chekhov a lot. I thought about Buster Keaton, someone who's constantly going through near-death

experiences, death experiences, yet we laugh, we root for him, but his face is melancholic. I like that idea. Absolutely. I mean, like, even though it's physical only in his body language. as in a movie with, like, physical comedy. The, the interpersonal situations he gets himself into have the energy of being, like, whacked in the back of a head with a board.

I also... Here comes the anvil. Yes. I must... Obviously, we don't really see him being romantic in this movie, but we understand that basically everyone at some time is kind of given a thought to Lewin Davis, you know, tumble in the hay. Although, I do think...

Because he's so hot. His last scene with Carrie Mulligan, is so well modulated, in my opinion, because up until that point, you're like, so is the chemistry that everyone kind of gets off on how much of an asshole he is? Right, and, like, berating him. And then the final scene with her,

he's a little charming and vulnerable, and you're like, oh, this is where he gets people. I get it. Is that, like, one out of every 20 times he's a real person and people fall for it, and then he punishes them. I just want to move to the village in 1961 and have a spare room.

And just see who cycles in and out of that thing, you know? Right? This whole movie really makes it feel like this was the place to be in the time to be there. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I think the food wasn't as good back then, though. Okay, go off. Just saying. Right? Probably less good restaurants.

Right, Ben? Yeah, but like, same much... Sandwiches cost like a dollar. True? There were like no ska bands. And there was zero. No scah. Goose egg scah. And a lot of folk music.

So why would we want to go? I mean, personally, folk music is my Spotify wrapped every year. So I would have a good time. I love folk music. I might struggle if I'm at the gaslight and they're like, you know, here are the four Irish guys in sweaters. I mean, maybe not. They think those guys crush it.

No, come on. I love that traditional Irish music. Well, we squeeting. It's just funny that you're like, I'm here to see Bob Dylan. They're like, nah, he's fucking, he's on vacation. Here are the white, here are the four white cardigans. It's so funny. The first time I watched it, I remember that scene coming on and being like, I like their

sweaters, and what does he say? He says I like their sweat. They have good sweaters. They go, they're not bad. I like their sweaters. I tried to look up if they were, like, referencing someone specific, but they're not. It's just kind of like, yeah, that kind of shit would pass through. A lot of ethnic, quote-unquote.

There was some, like, notable, like, Irish singer group that is talked about in the No Direction Home documentary. I can't think of who they are. It would be like, this is folk music. So, like, here's Celtic folk music. Here's, you know, Polish folk music. Like, people would be passing through from, you know, Lanzafar. whatever. Well, it's also not incidental, and the Coen's talk about this, that the acts that he is most hostile towards on stage are the ones that are actually the purest version of folk music, are actually

the most traditional version of folk music. Like that group and the harpsichord, or the, what is it, auto-harp woman whose husband beats the shit out of him. Good. Or like, this is like traditional, culturally, like, historic folk music. Where it was born. Right. Done in an unsexy way. And he's like, fuck this. So what's the thing? It's not a zither. What's the thing she's sort of like an auto harp. It'd be funny if he actually beaten him with the harp.

You know, if he just came out here, it's like, like the old time of music, huh? They were called the Clancy Brothers. There you go. They sound charming. They sound charming. Or Clancy brothers and Tommy Make them. They were the Hanson of their day.

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who cracked Robocop. Right, right. So as Oscar says, a famous, he learned movement from him. Often invoked on this show, Robocop, perhaps my favorite movie ever. And Robocop's got a specific gate. Peter Weller will never not credit Moni Yakeem.

I love that, actually. Oscar also credits him for what he calls a walking like a camel against the wind, which is how. Louan's always like a little hunched and like always feels like the wind is like blowing in his face which I really love

that movie does look so cold doesn't it? It does look. It's one of those where you're watching it and you're like I'm freezing watching this. It's one of the great winter movies and especially like northeast winter movies.

Yeah. But like you're Peter Weller they put a difficult suit on you. You go I can't move call Moni Akim. Most people in Oscar Isaac's position wouldn't say I obviously need to call in a movement coach for this. Absolutely. They would more be focused on the music or the whatever, right.

But this is right. His walk is like half of the movie. And this is why he's not like, you know, a method actor, but somebody who loves to research. Loves to think about the crowd. Camberlake comes to them through Scott Rood, a normal guy. Normal guy.

Carrie Mulligan's obviously bubbling around. She's getting more famous. I feel like an education is like two or three years before. And she's fucking. She's fucking brilliant. She's got the best line reading in the whole movie. Which is. He's got the best bangs in the whole movie.

Ready? Yeah. Give it to us. Ready? Rachel's kind of coiling. Yeah. I'm preparing. I'm talking.

I just got off the phone with Monia Keme and I'm ready to. No. I should have made you wear double condoms. Well, we shouldn't have done it in the first place. But if you ever do it again, which is a favor to women everywhere, you should not. But if you do, you should be wearing condom on condom and wrap it in electrical tape. You should just walk around always inside a great big condom because you are shit. You should not be in contact.

with any other living thing being shit. I need the listener to know. Rachel was looking at nothing. Rachel ain't got no screen propped up in front of her. She just did that. No, that's, that is line reading of all time. It is great. It's incredible.

I love her so much. She's so good in this. She really is. And she gets to a point where like the female lead in a cripple of Inishman where it's like, girl, come on now. Come on. But that is, that's a good performance in my opinion where you're like, you're mad at her for being so.

fucking negative towards what is already such a negative plot and negative situation and then you kind of end the movie you love her for a second with her getting

the gas light for him but then you realize how she did it but also the two of them had just done drive together married but a very different vibe in their relationship they clearly have some

not a great marriage I'll say but she's in it's like an education's 09 public enemies and brothers are the same year small roles. Wall Street Money Never Sleeps. Normal movie, normal production. Never Let Me Go Our 2010. Drive and Shamer

2011. I feel like Drive and Shamer her first post-Oscar nom, like, projects where she's popping. And then this and Great Gatsby are the same year. She's like very much in her. This and Great Gatsby being the same year is so because it's such like, it's really like Rachel McAdams doing Notebook and Me and Girls where you're like, these are two completely different films, completely different performances. She disappears into both and she's fantastic. Agreed. Love her and far from the madding crowd. I highly recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it.

I've never seen that. I've never seen it either. Check it out. So, John Goodman, so Timberlake, blah, Logan, blah. John Goodman, here's a quote from him. You know this quote. He had not worked with him since his brother. I do not know the quote.

I got an email from Ethan that said, quote, Madman, we've got something you might be interested in. That's all. I think he's like the ghost of Christmas future in this movie. Sure, of course. He's the fear. He does not know how to clock it. Well, okay, fine.

But it's like, yeah, he's the curdled, like, he hates everything. Right. He considers himself a genius, musical genius. And now he's the guy in the back of the car yelling at everyone else for being wrong. He's watching the world passing by. Fucking jazz snobb. Yeah. One of the worst snobs.

Unlike ska fans. Well, this is what I was going to say. Cool. You're like 25 years from now, Lewin could be the old grumpy folk singer in the back of the car. complaining about the scoff of what musicians up front. It's kind of what Dave Van Runk became. Yeah. It's like, right.

Yeah, you sort of stuck here. Can I say, though, please. Garrett Headland. This was the first... He's so hot in this movie. He's so hot. And I feel like this is the first time

he'd been around, right? Hollywood was pushing him. And it was very much like, we want this to be a guy. Was this pre-tron or post-tron? It's post-tron. No way. And I had always been like,

oh, yeah, he's fine. He's handsome. Like, I get it. Why is everyone so crazy about him? But this one I was like, And he barely speaks, obviously. He literally has, like, one line in it when he's reading poetry in the diner. I love him.

Or the road stop wherever they go. No, it is, I had that exact same feeling, which was, like, they've been pushing this guy so hard and he's fine. What's the deal? And then you watch him in this, and you're like, I get it. He's captivating. I get it. No one else has captured this, but clearly the guy has the juice. Yeah.

Now he's the Tulsa King. Now he's, well, he's, no. No, that's still. He's the Tulsa King. He's beautiful. He's beautiful. a big fan of him in general. They shoot this movie mostly in Brooklyn

and the Lower East Side. The actual village, of course, as they say, is basically too noisy, like, visually for them. Right. To do all the period stuff. You've seen the paparazzi photos from those shoots with the stuffed cat, yeah? The cat that looks like one of the webkins.

Like, it's such... It looks like a webkins. Oscar Isaac and his emotional support, Webkins. It is very cute. It's fantastic. They talk a lot about I feel like when Ethan talks about his burnout

and what eventually caused him This was a really hard, annoying movie to make and here is his webkins. Look at that. It looks like a webcam. Yes. It's so cute. Ben, of course, is the biggest cat person

in the room I would feel. Yes, I have a cat named pig. Wait, cutest name for a cat ever actually. Oh, my God. Inspired by Miss Piggy. Oh, my God. Even better. She's 17 years old.

Years young. Okay, there we're great. She's asthmatic. She's diabetic. No, she's so... 17 is impressive. 17 is amazing. God bless.

I was just going to say that I feel like Ethan points back to the process of working with the cat on this movie as one of the things that like broke him where he was like...

Hence the web kittens. Yeah, yeah, truly. But he was just like, oh, it'd be fun to put a cat at the center of the movie that kind of gives the story like a pulse of drive and you're like,

oh my God, the amount of scenes that are driven by a cat needing to start one place other place. Yeah, that's hard. Have you ever worked with a cat?

I don't think so. It's a fucking nightmare. I've worked, you know, I've only, like, worked with dogs and birds and stuff. Snakes. I've worked with snakes. Snakes are nice. To them. I did.

I did a multi-camera pilot with a cat where the cat was supposed to be a big part of it. And I genuinely think the process of working with the cat was 50% of why the show was not picked up. That's wild. Because it was just a nightmare. They're not like trainable. No, and the cat handler was there. and they'd be like so, like, the timing is on this line,

the cat needs to go from here to there. And the trainer was like, I'll see what I can do. She'll do what she wants to do. And the producer was like, who's this fucking cat wrangler we got? Like, we can't get someone better than this? And they were like, that is the best. That's the best cat wrangler.

She's just being honest with you that you're never going to be able to get them to do what you want. And that's why, what's his name on, was it, is it Salem on. Oh, Sabrina was an animatronic. Seameless. I never knew it. I never knew that was a robot. You couldn't tell? It's basically a like a broken clock is right twice a day process working with the cat on camera.

You do 200 takes and eventually one of them will accidentally be. I like how Salem was so busted and then they upgraded to a slightly less busted Salem. It was always funny, by the way. I always like the background though. Like when he leaves a scene, it is a real cat. And I kind of love that. I don't want to rain on anyone's Salem parade here. I should acknowledge that Salem did just headline the Riyadh Comedy Festival.

You're fucking kidding. And it was the newer puppet. It's the better one. And then when he walked off stage, it was a real cat. It was a real cat. They were like, everyone looked over there for a second. And then when they looked back, it was a real cat. He never got old.

Funny every time. Every single time. Funniest thing on the show. Oh, my God. Roger Deacons does not shoot this movie, guys. They're long-time cinematographer. He was busy making the skyfall. Let it crumble.

Let it crumble. The skyfall. Please. Let it crumble. Can you? We will stand tall. And face it all together. We have to face it all together.

Here's a pitch. What if you play James Bond, the Bond girl, and sing the song? So the thing is, I feel like everybody's... That's like hosting S&L and doing musical guests. That's not a work. Yeah, which people do it all the time. So why not, right? I would love to be a Bond girl.

I'm just putting it out there. But also, but also be James Bond. I know Barbara Broccoli doesn't do it anymore, but girl. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's Amazon now, right? It's Amy Pascal. And David Heyman. Yeah.

Come on, guys. David Hey, man. Come on. He's going to, if he ever hears this, he's going to be like, so I'm never working with her. I think it's the toast of London, you should be considered. Yeah, come on. Now that you are the toast of London's own. Come on.

An honorary citizen. So, Roger Deacons, didn't do it. No. So Bruno Del Bonnell, one of my favorite Dupes, who loves to shoot things like this, all smoky and cloudy, you know what I mean? Yeah. The guy who shot Amalini way back when. who, I always have to mention, completely freaked it on Harry Potter

and the Half Blood Prince. And he totally fucking freaked out on that. One of the most gorgeous looking movies ever made about double-dor and shit. But he's the king of making live action look like watery pastels. Like, inky. Exactly.

So cool. Smudgy colors. Yeah. I know the look of this movie is divisive, even amongst people who consider it on film. A masterpiece. But obviously, very, very fussed with digitally. Yeah.

And it's muted. Right. And people... tend to not understand that just because it's not colorful doesn't mean it's not good. It's a movie that looks like slush. Like, that is what they wanted. They were like, winter in the village. Yes.

The free will and Bob Dylan album covers, like a big... Literally, yes. Yeah. But also, New York in January, February, looks white. It looks gray. It literally is gray. Yeah. Right.

And this movie somehow gets... It somehow gets at some ecstatic truth of what the cold feels like more than what the cold looks like. Absolutely. Absolutely. I love the look of this. It's shot brilliantly. It's very stylized. The lighting in it is... Oh, good.

Because the lighting in it is fantastic. Incredible. It only got two nominations. When he has sat at the Reggio waiting for Carrie Mulligan to come bring his stuff... That's the scene I always think about. And he's staring out the window. Yeah. He's beautiful.

He's beautiful. He's quite beautiful. But Bruno does this. He does Buster Scruggs and he does Macbeth. So as Deakin sort of gets caught mend his land... You can't say that. He becomes... All the world's...

a stage. He shot the Scottish film. McBiddy. I appreciate you viewing this podcast studio as a theater. All the world's a stage. That we're cursing. The palladium balcony. Uh-huh. The Blank Check offices. It's all a stage. It's all a stage.

I have to go sing, don't cry for me. Bye guys. Get right back to. We're halfway through. Bruno loves stagebound stuff, though. He loves shooting on sets. He loves being able to control the light. This is a movie where he's mostly dealing in real environments. A lot of The lower east side is real, unfortunately.

A lot of New York street shooting, but also, like, shooting an actual tiny cramped apartments. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, I... And subway cars. And still exquisite. Yeah. Gorgeous.

Carrie Mulligan is married to Mumford. One of the Mumfords. Who's the voice. There's the voice. It's the voice of Mike Timlin, who's his passed away, his writing and singing partner. But it's not him on the album. It's him on the album. It is.

It is. Oh, wait. I don't know about the album. problem art. Yeah. But he's definitely the voice. I know he's the voice. I just can never remember if it's him on the phone. Sometimes they bring Oscar on stage and they sing fairly well together, which is so cool. It rules. It rules. I've never seen it because it never happens when I'm there. So Marcus Mumford, if you're out there. I've told this story before. But my mom wanted my sister to be bilingual when she was. She made a wish. 1314. Okay. Well, she had failed to

make my brother and I bilingual. My mother is French. Okay. And so she decided to pull my sister out of school in eighth grade and immerse her in a school in France for a year to make her bilingual. I'm so sorry. I would be so mad if I were your sister because like eighth grade my last year. Really normal, emotionally and psychologically balanced year to take a girl out of the environment that she knows and plays her a foreign country. It's also too late to make someone bilingual. Yeah, that is. That is not. I'm going to say all of it was a disaster. But I went to visit them, largely because it was a disaster, and my mom was like five alarm fire. We need additional support. Like backup. And they were, they were subletting this

apartment in France. And this one fucking Mumford and Sons song was on a loop. They had an iPod and a dock and they were playing this one song like, Little Lion Man. Four straight hours every night. And like three days in, I was just like, why the fuck do you like this song? And I was just like, why the Fuck do you like this song so much? I cannot believe you listen to this song so many times. And my mom goes, the iPod is broken. We don't know how to change it to a different song. Cool.

And within five seconds, I identified that they just had it on repeat and hadn't fixed it. And I was like, are you telling me that for four straight months, you have listened to this song. What song was it? If it take me down the night, I couldn't tell you what it's called. My dear, my dear. That one. Wait. It was not your fault, but mine.

I think that's it. That is Little Lion Man, isn't it? I think it's one of their most famous songs, right? Little Lion Man. It was like... Lenny doesn't like it. Oh, he's right to growl. They are...

They're a little mid. It was like advanced interrogation. I love Mumford and Sons. I will not sit here and listen to this. Sorry. I bring this up only because I have a negative association with Mumford and Sons for the rest of my life because of this. It felt like advanced interrogation tactics.

I'm... That is so funny. And I was like, why wouldn't you just turn the iPod off? And they were like, well, we love music. And I was like, you love listening to the same song every night? Inside Lewin Davis. That's the end of my story. Inside Lewin Davis.

That was it. It's ended. It's about a guy called Lewin Davis. It's Welsh. But his mom is Italian, I believe he says. Yes. And I love that somebody, like, says, like, Pablo. What are you?

They call him Pablo. Because he looks, because he is, Latino. I love that line. But also, Bud Grossman says, what's the N stand for? I love it's a great line. Guatemala. And then once again, because he's Guatemala and says, maybe if you stay out of the sun a little bit,

when he's giving him the career advice. Yeah. He says 18 hysterical insane things, and then promptly has an air and overdosed and probably dies. The two seconds of sympathy he gives him in silence when he says his partner killed himself. And he's like, anyway, George Washington Bridge is a terrible bridge to throw yourself.

Oh, that. Well, no, Gossman doesn't say that. No, no, I'm talking about Goodman. Yes, yes, yes, just all the amazing things got Goodman. I was like, well, John Goodman's like, it's a brief performance. He's only in, like, six or seven minutes of the movie. And then I'm watching and I'm like, does he actually have 15 straight pages of dialogue? It's all gold.

He comes in, attacks the racket. It's so good. But, yeah, Lewin Davis, he is a folk singer. It's okay. Lenny, it's okay. He's just practicing. You can let him, what will happen if you let him rampage? He's just going to do this for.

for like five minutes. What are you mad about, Lenny? He hears people in the hallway. He thinks he owns the blank check office. He thinks he's the guard, his official guard dog. This once, yeah. If you live in like a busy apartment building with an animal, with a dog, like, they will anytime someone like exits out of an elevator, like, you know, two miles away.

He's crazy. They know. Lewin Davis, his partner died. It's 1961. He released a solo album. It did not sell. The movie begins with him getting the ship beat out of him. Do you consider this a flash forward or not?

I feel like there's so much debate about this. Of whether or not it's a loop. Because it is presented differently both times, but obviously it's very similar. Yeah. I think of it as two different things. Interesting. But I don't really care that much. And I don't, I'm not trying to Reddit, please calm down, like offer some definitive take on this.

I like the idea that it is a loop with. The mildest improvement at the end of he keeps the cat, you know, like in the house. He's learned a little bit. I will say this, and I said something. So it's affected the beginning of this episode. It's a little frustrating sometimes talking about the Cohen brothers. Right. Where people are trying to solve it.

Yes. And I think we tend not to try to be like puzzle-solving movie guys. But a lot of our episodes, there's been a lot of very loud. Like, I cannot believe they got all of this wrong. They forgot this part of the plot is this. I forgot art wasn't subjective. Right. That's the thing.

Forgetting plot stuff, we do that all the time. We're bad at our jobs. But the sort of like, that is a fundamental misread of the movie. There are certain things where like we got the fucking, of course, it's not Tommy Lee Jones's dad at the end of no country that he goes to visit. Like, that's just actually on us. That's a big mistake. But there's other stuff where I'm like, every time I watch these movies, I flip opinions on certain reads. I really do think the Cohen movies are like that.

They really do feel like dreams where you wake up and you go like, why the fuck was I doing that? Like, what does that mean? And the more I rewatch them, the changes in where you are in your life, like sometimes I'm like, it's absolutely two separate events. And sometimes I'm like,

it's the same event from two different perspectives. And I don't think there's a definitive answer. I don't think there's a definitive answer either. I do think they kind of, not spoon feed, but drop... hints with the line about folk song saying it's never new and it never gets old

but you know a folk song is repetitive a folk song is the same like melody sung over and over again to different words and so it's one of those where you go and also if you pay attention

to the way it's edited what's a hard cut versus what's a fade is also a very cool way to watch this film because it fades to him being back at the gore finds the next morning and the cat waking up with the cat on his chest

yes and it's a fade that time the first time it's a hard cut and the second time it's a fade I think that's brilliant and those are two distinctly different events they feel different exactly well the cat wake-ups are absolutely and result is different

yes but I do think he let the cat out one time he doesn't I think you're right sorry finish your point no no I'm just saying like there's so many ways to watch it there's so many ways to interpret it I do think that something that we learn as we get older is that whether it's God or the universe, you're handed the same situation over and over again to see how much you've learned. And I do think that the idea of this film is to, it's weirdly hopeful, despite how depressing

it is, that he's going to figure it out at some point because the first step was not letting the cat out. Yes, I agree with you. That is my read. It's that the multiple interpretations is the point. It isn't that one or the other is the answer. This movie is very paired, in my opinion, to a serious man in a lot of ways, where it's the sort of like tests of Job, this guy who keeps being challenged by the universe. And the point in the serious man is it really isn't this guy's fault.

Yeah. And the point in this movie is all of this is basically self-created and self-perpetuated by this guy. But like whether or not they're the same event, it's meaningless to him. he probably couldn't differentiate between them being separate events a month apart, a week, a part, a night apart. And also, his takeaway would probably be the same. What is frustrating about this guy

is that he isn't learning, right? And then you can look at the ending and sometimes I think, oh, he's starting to get it. And other times I think he's just disregarding this. The Orovar is like him putting an ironic distance

to a thing that he should actually be processing in a deeper way. And that's mental illness, which is the other thing is like very much can't tell what was a month ago what was a week ago is like that's depression

like 100% and that's living in a rut that's being an artist who's facing rejection but then John Goodman has this great line where he's like essentially making fun of him

but also reading him for filth where he's like oh my life's this big pile of shit I don't remember making this big pile of shit which is like you are the reason your life sucks you can do something about it and those kinds of people are the most frustrating people to deal with

where you're like, I have a solution, do something else. He, right, clearly thinks, you know, maybe not the world, but the industry, the scene is against him a little bit, right? But he never rants about it or anything. There's no moment in this movie that's that on the nose, and he can't talk about the horrible thing, which is that he lost his partner. Like, that's the thing where it's obviously like

the mere mention or wafts, of it sets him off and makes sense, like, it's like that's the unsolvable riddle of like, how am I supposed to get another partner? That was when I was probably at my best. Which I think is why this movie is so personal

and I feel like it's one of their most overtly moving movies because it is, I think it's really activating something about these two guys who work together, trying to process the theoretical tragedy of losing, your other half, right?

And they have obviously now, at the time we're recording this, been in their sabbatical, split-off, side projects. But, like, they didn't lose each other. No. You can't break up your brothers. Very true. Right. There's, like, a certain Twilight Zone nightmare scenario of, like, what if they made blood simple

and then one of them died? Yeah. What the fuck would they do? Yeah. Kind of thing. But I also think watching it this time, I really started to drill down on. does Lewin want to be successful? This is a big thing.

In the past, I've read this sort of sense of resentment of, oh, fuck, why has no one given me my break, right? And I started really, like, through the lens of just, when does he indicate that he wants something more than what he has? And it happens so rarely. And when it does, it feels like what he wants is for someone just to create an ecosystem where he can keep doing

the exact thing he's doing right now with slightly less struggle because he's not saying that he wants a ton of money, that he wants fame, that people aren't calling him a genius, right? And he also, for how cynical he is, doesn't do a lot of why that guy and not me kind of shit.

That you so often sense from guys like this. You don't see him grinding an axe. You're right. About Bob Dylan or whoever the fuck. No, definitely not. The specter of Bob Dylan at the end of the movie, I do feel it. He's clocking like, oh. is, you know, something changing. I'm not this guy, right.

What's the Troy, the character that Stark Sands plays? Yeah, he doesn't like Star Sands. Yeah, there's a little bit of like, this is the thing that's that's getting Bud Grossman's attention. Like, you got to play at Bud Grossman's. Like, that's crazy. But then the bud line of, like, he connects with people.

Like, that he says about it. Well, yeah, 100%. He's a good kid. He's a good, upstanding guy. People read his goodness. Right. And, like, the, you know, the unspoken thing that Bud is saying to Lewin of, like, you on the other hand, like a moody piece of shit. And he, like, inadvertently, I mean, like, he doesn't know he's telling him to kill himself, but he's like, you should get back together with your partner.

And that, like, to a depressive, is very much reading, you should kill yourself, too. Like, absolutely. There is an easy, symbolic read of this movie in which he is literally trying to pay a fare to cross, you know, to go in the ocean. that he's like, you know, that the merchant marine are like charon and he's like, that's the only step left before he enters the underworld, right? Like, and he's just in this purgatory

where he's like, do I do that? Do I fucking get on the boat? The merchant marine thing is what I find very telling within this sort of focus I was giving on this viewing, right? Is like he really bristles at Sark's hands, but I think a lot of that is, this has to be an act.

This guy can't be for real, right? And he's... Well, he says, does he have a higher focus? when he's watching him play in the bar. He's this type of guy who wants to believe that he's operating like a samurai or something, right? That there's like an empirical code for artistic purity and that if you are more or less ambitious than that, then you're wrong, right? He doesn't want people who are just kind of clocking in and clocking out and like this

guy seems so untroubled and uncomplicated by it. And it's like, that's not enough. You need to be tortured by this. but also if you're too mercenary, if you're too careerist, if you're too strategic, then you're not doing it for the right reasons, right? And they keep on sort of asserting this idea that it's like, you could have a home. To some degree, you seem obsessed with the idea of being unmoored, sleeping on people's couches, not needing much to get by, you know, constantly struggling to just get $10 ahead.

Like, that's the thing. And I think all he ultimately wants is the idea of someone, like Bud Grossman, who's a kingmaker saying, you are good enough that I will give you just enough money to survive. I will give you just enough attention to survive. I don't think he wants to be Bob Dylan.

But Bob Dylan is a classic example of a guy who didn't play by the rules, right? Doesn't get along with people an obvious way, but his genius was so undeniable that the world warps around him and goes, you do it your way and we're all going to fucking support it. I don't even think he wants that much

attention. I think he's just like, can I enter a system in which I'm stuck in a loop, but a loop of comfort? That's what he wants. And the Merchant Marines thing is like, okay, if Bud Grusman says, no, I'll go back on the boat. He's not fucking bitter about it. He's almost like, okay, it's over because, even though he's lying to himself in that moment, right? I think what he's looking for is the three hots and a cot. But every home he enters is not a welcoming one besides the gore finds.

He will never be happy. It's so interesting, though, because if you. If you watch the movie and focus on the times he's in somebody's home. Right. You've got Adam Driver, who's in this tiny, tiny place. And he was also not... It is funny that Kylo Ren and fucking Po Dammer lead off a Star Wars movie two years later. It's so funny.

Two years later, that's happening. But it starts with them face, like, inch to inch apart, you know. I certainly think this is why... Also, Juilliard, by the way. Isaac, true. Yeah. I think this is why Isaac at Star Wars, no question. Maybe, I mean, obviously, that part was also weird where it was going to be small and they got bigger.

Okay, no, so he's at Adam Driver's. He's in Al Cody's place who's also not selling any records. That's failure. He has a home, but he's still a failure. The marriage between Jim and Gene is destined to fall apart at some point. Yeah. Maybe with his doing, maybe without, that's a home that's falling apart. His sister yelling at the kid, that's an unhappy home.

The final home he enters is his dad in a nursing home. Yeah, shitting himself. He thinks he's having a moment of connection. And he's not. The double wow. That is the most Coen brothers. It is so Cohen brothers. They're going into their bag moment.

Yeah. Like looking out the window as like Oscar Isaac just like plays his heart out, then he slowly turns his head to look at his son and you're like, oh my God, it's a Cocoa moment. The music has spoken through the senility. He says wow twice and then walks out and goes, my father needs to be cleaned. it's perfect when the second

union guy is like oh how's your dad you know he's great he's been asking after you also the you can't join the military what because I'm a communist

and then the guy said he able to spawn something in Russian it's the yeah the word for like a fellow socialist I forget what he's saying and he goes

never mind that first guy too he goes you're not Hugh Davis's kid are you and he goes why not why not

why not It's so good. It's so good. And it really is. This movie, the humor really is in a lot of the edit. As is with a lot of Coen Brothers films, like their editing is really what makes... Their writing is funny on paper,

but when it's cut so well, it's fucking fantastic. So often the punchline is like the repetition of these things in different environments and different people in these very short scenes, right? Where, you know, him asking Al Cody, how's your place?

It's a dump. do you have a couch hard cut to taking stuff out of the back of Al Cody's car? Yeah. The gore finds, though. This is the, right, the warmest home he's brought into. Do you think, what's this, you know, do you think Mike is their son?

I said fundamentally, Mike is not a gorefine. Right, but you were, were you kidding? I couldn't tell. No, I wasn't. I think he's not. Right, right. It's, like, that, that I actually think is a misread of the movie. I think it is interesting.

Like, I get why people flock. to that because her reaction is so extreme? It's not just that. To me, the read of that is like every time he's going in there, there's a bit of a strain to how they're behaving. Like, the way he answers

both times, she's making her famous Musaka. They always have friends there. It feels a little like they are also not looking something in the face. That's why I can see the reading of like, and also he wouldn't use the stage name Mike Gorfine. He would think of a better station.

I agree with that. You know what I mean? Like Timlin. Right. He's come up with like a folk singer name, right? You know, whatever. Is my read on that? But then it's almost, if he is their son, like, then it's kind of crazy that he yells at them.

Because it's their son who died. You know what I mean? Yeah. Now, Lewin Davis is a bit of a, you know, a caustic fella. I think the number one reason I think he is not agorifying is in the father's, I should say, the husband's response. The great Ethan Phillips. Yes. Neelix himself.

Yes. not the father, but the husband, that he goes like, hey, look, we're all grieving in our own ways. Right. Which is great. I mean, like, the way they let him back in is lovely.

If it was his son, it feels a little crazy. He would either be more emotional or he'd be angrier at Lewin. It would be Bill and Rachel getting married. I think it is him, exactly. I think it is him correcting for his wife

kind of making it about her. Right, great Robin Barlett. Yes. My whole... She's so great in this movie. Where is his scrotum? It's tight to what you're saying of like, this is the only functional home he's allowed in, right?

Yeah, and they're like, you know, again, if you're reading them not as Mike's parents. Like, they're just like patrons of folk music who love it and they're like, you know, crunchy Upper West Side guys. They are crunchy liberal Jews who have become upper class or, you know, upper middle class, right? And feel the need to become patrons of the arts. And support the people doing the real work, right?

and I think to him there's something unseemly about that that he doesn't want to be like a court jester right that he doesn't want to be like, can I say, the performing monkey as somebody who like grew up as like the singer. Right. And people like Rachel sing for everyone. And that's the way you make money

and that's the way you put food on your table and pay rent. You're like, I'm not I'm not a circus animal. This is not my party trick. This is my job. So it's like one of those scenes that I really do get but I do have to skip it when I watch it sometimes because her reaction. always makes me so sad. They will give him the free home with nothing in return, but there's also the expectation of like, you belong to the kingdom now, right? Like he owes them something whether or not

they're going to ask him to sing it every dinner. There is some unspoken sense of singing for your supper because there are people who get off on the idea that they're patrons of the arts and they are supporting the people doing the radical work while they've settled into something more comfortable. And I think the idea that he is being commodified in that way, even if they ask nothing of him, even if they are the most accepting and the most kind of like emotionally engaged with him pisses him off.

And I also think her turning Mike's death into something that she has to grieve pisses him off because he wants that to be his. Unless she's his mom. Which is why I think she's not his mom.

Ben, you seem to disagree. Oh, no, no. I was going to more just add it I really feel for him in that I think they're prating him around. And I mean, it's cool that they're friends with this guy or whatever. I think they're, yes,

giving him a place to stay. but there's something gross about it, especially even with the fact that you keep seeing different friends at these dinner parties and it feels very established that he and these other musicians are always around

and they're always like little like guest performers at these dinners. Yeah, these salons, these curated interesting minds things and it feels like there's like a petting zoo element of like we brought a guy with a camera

to like look at you, you know? And he's living this life of struggle and they have like, the big bearded guy. They have the comfort of academia. Right. You know, like, Dave decided to go that route.

And I think it would piss anyone off to be traded that way. That's the part of him that doesn't want success. He wants to find a comfortable middle where he can stay in a loop because he actually piss him off. Everything. I'm saying what makes him happy? Nothing. Yeah.

He's fundamentally an unhappy person. The most content you see him is the very last, his very last, like, singing fairly well without Mike. Sometimes you see the spirit. move through him in a way that's more comforting. But obviously, when he's performing for Bud or whatever, it's so powerful, but it's angry and it's sad. Yeah, he picks the death of Queen Jane

to sing to, like, the most important, like, audition of his life. Such an insane decision. Yeah. But this is a guy who... But it feels like a Lewin Davis decision. It is a Lewin Davis decision. But you think it's such an interesting moment to then see how free and beautiful he sounds singing Dink's song at the very end of the...

Right. At the very end of the movie. Because he's making that decision himself. Yeah. Like, that it's like, rather than, you know, doing it in front of the Gorefines and then she joins in doing Mike's part where it's like, you know, just to keep, you know, like now it's like he's, here's a new take on this song. And when he sings it in front of the gore finds, he's singing like his part of a duet. Yes, he's not doing that. It is missing something.

When he sings it at the end, he has finally found the way to sing it as a solo performer. I think, like, part of his samurai code, though, is like, I only want to borrow money for people who don't have money to give me, right? I only want to stay on a couch of someone who doesn't have enough room. Like, the idea that the gore finds, like, the cup overfloweth makes it feel like dirty to him and how much they are attentive. Have you watched Star Trek Voyager? No. I know he plays an alien doctor. No, that's the thing I just wanted for one second say.

He plays the character of Nelix on Star Trek Voyage. Now, of course, Star Trek Voyager is about a spaceship that gets flung to the other side of the galaxy, right? So they're lost, right? and so there's sort of a makeshift crew that's the point of Star Trek Voyager they've got a captain they've got a dog the doctor is the hologram is of course Robert Picardo of course your favorite yes

you know they pick up a sexy Borg lady they've got but then there's also Neelix played by Ethan Phillips who's he he's like a weirdo they find okay he's just like a guy he's like an alien they meet from over there and he's kind of like I kind of know the lay of land around here if you want me to like hang out

and they're like okay what do you do and he's like I can cook and so he's the cook but that's it it's just so weird there's no Star Trek character like it his design is really good his design's really cool

he's got these crazy spots and like this weird sort of tufty hair and it must have been such a pain to put it on every day but every episode that he's a part of Janeway's like hey Neelix what's up there he is yeah

and Neelix is like I'm trying to make like sort of scrambled eggs and she's like I'll see you later like everyone is annoyed by it anyway I always love to see him I think he's really good in this movie

as is Robin Bartlett. Everyone is good. Everyone's doing the one scene performing. Alex Karpovsky, funny for a second. Max Casella, such a good slime ball. Like, you know. Pin and Casella need to talk about him. But there is something in, you know, this kind of person.

They're not bad people to Gorfines, right? No, not at all. They're just a little annoying. They're a little annoying. And they also, like, basically, they want to launder their sense that they've sold out and have gotten comfortable and are no longer like skin in the game, right?

And I think her singing along with him is like an overly personal thing to do that she feels the need to do because she feels some ownership of the music to show how much she gets it. Performative grief. Exactly. Yeah.

Which is why her husband makes that apology of like we're all grieving in her own ways. And to him the insult is like, you don't need to grieve at the same level that I do. You're a guy who brought him over for dinner and let him sleep on your couch. He was my partner. My life will never recover.

But for him, it's just like, he basically wants to figure out a way to live the exact life he's living with 5% less difficulty. And he keeps thinking, if I could just solve these two issues, I'd be happy. And he can solve the two issues and he's not happy. Ten new issues emerge and he fucks all of them up. Well, but there's also stuff like he needs to pay for an abortion

for Carrie Mulligan and her bangs, her beautiful. And her bangs. He goes to the clinic and they're like, no, it's fine. You're paid up from the last fucking abortion you paid for that she decided not to do. She carried to terms. Yes. And like it's just the kind of like, right, exactly. All around time, he goes to the merchant marine and they're like, yeah, you owe is some money.

You know, it's like he just has these tiny little balances up and down that he can never quite balance out. And if he balanced them out, he'd be great. No, so he goes and records, exactly. He goes and records the fucking novelty song and they're like, do you want royalties or the paycheck? And he's like, what the fucking pay? I need money given the paycheck. And then at the end of the movie, they're like, that song, by the way,

is going to make so much money. He's like, eh. It's such a good Cohen's judgment that I kept being like, right, does the song come on the radio when he's on the road trip? Does he have to hear it be a hit? No, it's that the gore finds there like, that song's going to be a hit. You never see him face the success of the song. You see him face the idea of you probably fucked up.

It's about to happen. It would be too on the nose if he was walking around town and there's like posters of Al Cody or whatever. But like why does he take the money? He needs it for the fucking abortion. I know. It's like he's always trying to pay the piper and then there's another piper. It's so well done to have sympathy for being a fuck up. Yes.

Because the thing is, too, the other element to this is that his manager is this old inept man. Yeah. Who he'll never get payment from. Right? So he also just knows that, like, this roadblock is going to prevent. I think you should dump your manager and switch to Mel. I think Mel is going to take your places. And you know what?

There's so many Mel's on the lower east side. I was about to say, I mean, it would be, yeah. Like, if I was. It's Mel and whoever is, his, like, clerk. She's so funny. Who just comes out with the box. I got it. You got it. Yeah, I got it.

So good. Like that moment where, right, where he's like, has, you know, has But Grossman called. And she goes and lifts up her hands. He's like, and she's like, no, I meant to tell you we were throwing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And goes and gets the fuck. But let's also call out.

Mel is like, I can't give you money, but I can give you the jacket. And Lewin hates the idea that he sees a charity case that needs the jacket. And then we watch the entire movie, him suffer from the lack of the coat. And the way that they, I'm saying the way they depict the cold, even with like the shot of his feet at the diner. Oh, my God. With his wet socks. It is so visceral that feeling of my entire foot is wet. I'm going to take my wet sock out of my wet shoe.

Yeah. and rub them against each other to just try to make it one percent warmer. But can I say like the whole movie is kind of summarized in the one shot of him walking through the snow when there's clearly a snowless patch next to him? Yes. Yes. It's brilliant. I don't need your coat. I don't need your coat, but I'm going to walk in five feet of snow. Right. And then be upset about the problem, but also not complain about it to anyone because

I like the idea that I'm comfortable with the suffering. I do now think now that you're saying like, yes, he does not actively complain about anyone, But every man he meets in this movie, you do feel him bristling. Yeah. So it's like Justin Timber, like, he's like, I hate this performative nice husband man, right? Who's like, you know, good at everything he does. He doesn't like Adam Driver for being a buffoon, really. And to him, like, a fake.

It's a phony, it's a novice act. Exactly, right, right, right. He's going to change his name. Stark Sand, he's like, you're a disgusting square to me. You know, he won't say it aloud, but like. The struggle is part of it. How can you be this untroubled and make great means? music.

It's the, like, the famous Mark Mayn episode where he interviews Nick Crowe, which I think about all the time, where Mark Mayer is just like, your childhood was normal. I hate it. And he crow's like, I'm sorry I had a happy child. Yeah. But his character's very merrieney and the last, like, episode. Yeah, he's very merriety. Because you're like, you're talented.

I get it. And things just aren't quite line enough for you. Maybe Lewin should get a podcast. That's the answer. The thing is he would. If this movie were made right now, he would have a podcast. And he'd be like, do you think Bud Grossman likes me? I audition for him.

once. He would not be enough of a go-getter to start a podcast. If he did, he'd abandon after three episodes. He would be so

active in the comments. Lew and Davis is a reditor. He's a reditor. He's a comment. He's burning up the AV Club. But the

penultimate WTF, the solo Meron monologue one. I feel like was so emotionally affecting and was,

I don't know if you've listened to it, but it was basically Marin talking about how the podcast got him to break the

Lewin Davis cycle. Very much. That he was this guy 20 years, and that through the act of interviewing people, which started out as a career move, but, like, taught him empathy and understanding and comparing other people's careers that he, like, got out of this. And I just think, and Marin talks about this, that throughout his

20s and his 30s into his early 40s, that he always had this attitude of, like, why this fucking guy? And Lewin Davis does not do that once in the movie. I agree with you that he bristles with people, but, like, every other- He never rants, really. He never rants, and every other version of a movie like this with a guy like this who's stuck in the middle, is angry at the other people for how they're perceived. The one person he takes it out on is the nice lady with the auto art. Who's the most legit thing? Right, exactly.

It's the most undeserving of being heckled. She's like, I've literally never performed in New York before. He's being so mean. In that Del Toro interview, they were like, that was one of her most complete ideas in the movie is if this guy comes face to face with the real thing, he not only doesn't know what to make of it, but he's going to be an asshole. And they said the other, like, really complete idea that they write their scripts, they start out, and then they go, like, what happens to the next scene, what happens

in the next scene? They don't map out the plot in advance, by and large, unless they're doing really naughty kind of noir stuff. And so they're, like, surprised as things are going along as they develop them. And they said, a complete idea for us that we never considered the alternative is that he's going to drive past Akron and not pull off the side of the road. Just notice it. Right.

Right, that the entire idea for the movie is there's no scenario we could imagine going there. And he said, if we do the thought experiment of he drives off and he knocks on the door, that's a bad scene from a bad movie. I don't want to see that, right? The complete idea is you look at this glowing CGI town, right? It looks magical. It looks like fucking potter. It's literally the polar express, like, pulls into.

This guy has no fucking home. And there's literally a family ready to go right there. His two-year-old son. His two-year-old baby. He's never met before. He's never met. He didn't know existed until 30 minutes before. I think the movie brilliantly tricks you because you're like, well, the shitty move is that this guy pulled up on the side of the road and said, I'm really tired.

I could use some sleep. Can you drive me back to New Jersey? And you think he's going to be selfish and take the car to Akron and fuck this guy over because he needs to meet his child. and instead he doesn't even do that. He just looks at the side. He just looks at it and keeps on fucking driving and hits a cat. The wrong cat that he took off the streets of New York City. Right.

And look, he shows up at her door. She probably slaps him in the face, right? She apologizes for not telling him that he didn't get, she didn't get the abortion, but also goes like, by the way, you're a fucking asshole and I don't want you in my kid's life. But even still, that gives him a sense of closure and processing that he's actively avoiding. and there are decisions like

what I was saying John Goodman is like the Ghost of Christmas future not only does he not know how to not become that guy he refuses to acknowledge that this guy is a version of what he could become

he leaves him on the side of the road Yeah probably dead Yeah probably gonna die It's not a great situation In his defense I'm not sure what he should do

at that point I agree It's a little bit of a tough But his response almost every time is what am I supposed to do I'm walking away Yeah

I don't know what to do here. Luen is the cat. Louan is the cat. Because the cat doesn't actually get hit is the crazy thing. He checks the car. There's nothing. There's no sign of a cat having been hit. The cat moves on. Your point about the Appalachian performer and like how

he's so rude to her and yet she's the most legit. She's literally what folk music is. She is the real thing. Here is a person from a faraway place who is performing very regionally specific music for us. Who learned music as as it was like... Right.

It's like an oral tradition, 100%. And there's something, too, about, like, his, like, whole, like, you know, samurai code authenticity. And yet, the music that he plays is traditional music that someone else wrote. That he's trying to put his own spin on. He should be doing sea shanties. Because he was a merchant marine guy. Maybe he should do sea shanties.

Yeah. But then with the Dylan of it all, too, like, what Dylan really did, right, is he was the first one to be like, why don't we just take this music? form and write original music. Yes. And also he was... A total sponge. He was taking in everything and spitting out everything and mixing shit together. And people are like, what the fuck's your deal? And he was like, I don't see money here. I mean, that's the thing is he's, it's so cutting, but it's kind of true.

He is correct. Like, what is the business strategy here? Right. What is the success here? I don't think he actually, you're right. He doesn't really have a thing in mind. Dylan had shit to say. Louan Davis does not. Or if he does, he's not saying it, right? He just wants to impress people with his skill at the standards, right? And so Bud Grossman, like, he says there's not a lot of money here, which is the most cutting shit in the world.

And then he follows up by saying a bunch of things that are good about him, even when some of them are backhanded, where he's like, you are talented, but like, what makes you different than 800 other guys I see every week? And he's like, could you be a Peter? Could you be a poem? He gives him a path. He does. He goes, stay out of the sun.

cut that into a goate you could be the third guy that's a career and then you can go to fucking poppies and play your own shit wherever you want but that's the version of it where that funds your lifestyle

and he immediately goes like no not happening well he won't have a partner again he can't he can't like enter into that kind of emotional contract he can open himself up to the possible pain right and that's the difference between him and

the gore finds where they have performative grief and he has anticipatory grief Yes. Yes. And Lenny is also really upset. Lenny's grieving. So sorry. But don't you think if Bud Grossman had said to him in that moment, I got an idea. I got a songwriter who can't sing or play a lick. Would you perform his material? He would go, no, I don't do other people songs. Right. Probably. If Bud Grossman offered 10 other versions of here's my pitch for how to sell you that weren't forcing him to be part of a duo or a trio again, he still would bring. at it. The idea is that he wants someone to go, yep, I get you. Move here, live above the venue, perform here every night. I pay you a stipend. It's the version of the merchant Marines. It's

three hots and a con. You don't need to get more or less ambitious than you are right now. What if Bud was like, do you want to be my toothbrush? She'd say yes, because this guy's full of bristles. He's bristling. Oh, my God. Rachel, don't leave. What are you talking about? Why are you opening the door? David's holding a baseball card. I have my people. Alonso card here. Oh, wow. My boy Pete, sorry. That's the fan. Whatever. My daddy built Yankee Stadium.

What was that? My daddy built Yankee Stadium. No. We were chatting before you guys. Did your dad work on the construction of the new Yankee Stadium when I was a kid? With his bare hands? With his bare hands. This is Baby Joe from Superman. Sorry, I'm reaching to all my comfort objects. Have you seen a

Superman? I am. That's good. It's fine. It's good. It's good. You'd enjoy it. You've not seen it out of loyalty to DJ Katrana. You're one true superbook. Well, that's the thing. You know me and my love of DJ as Clark Kent. But it's also that I was doing the Vita and I just simply, like sinners, I saw sinners

and then I went back into my tunnel. So then when I came out, I can only see what was in theaters after I came out. And by the way, guys, this is the only reason I keep on turning down Broadway musicals. They're begging me. And I go, I can't miss these movies. What's the last offer you got on a Broadway musical group? Oh, my God. Death becomes her.

They wanted me to play both. And I said, the movie's all missed. I can't. You said, I can do it. I could do it. I could do my sleep and I have excess energy left over. What role on Broadway would you fit best? You know the one it's off Broadway.

The one I want to do Seymour. Yeah, of course. I every year ago, is this the year I. I've given you sunshine. I hire a vocal coach and try to figure out if I could do it. Please don't do it. I mean, you can't do it. No, he should, he should.

I'll be your, I'll be your, Audrey. It'll be so fun. Here we go. We've got a contract. I mean, if you hit these tales, you're going to go far. Hey, oh. I'm just imagining the producers of Little Shop being like, it's non-negotiable? We have to take Newman?

Jesus fucking Christ. What if you were like Hermes in Hades Town? You could totally be in Hades Town. I will say the Chris or Cyber part in Death Becomes Her is really fun. Yeah, but nobody beats him. Nobody beats Christopher. I love Chris Sieber so much. He's the God.

I agree. He is a fucking legend. but because I have seen him do such insanely technically complicated things on stage, I thought the performance was going to level up to a thing I could not possibly ever consider doing. Right. Like his fucking Lord Farquard on his knees dance. Or I saw his Mrs. Trunchball and Matilda where he was amazing. I was like.

Do you think he feels like death becomes her as a nice break? It does feel like it just has to work around in a suit. Because Jennifer Samard and... Are you going to see him in Bat Boy? Oh, my God. He's doing bad boy at an encore. He's playing the Reverend. That's exciting.

I love encores. He is phenomenal in Death But Comster, but it does feel like a little bit of a princess part where I think he's like they get to do the crazy stuff. I agree. Have you seen it yet? I haven't. I saw it recently. I just feel the need to acknowledge this because we covered Death of Comes in this. Paul Taswell costumes.

That show is a tremendous amount of fun. Eric Winterling built them. They're just incredible pieces of costumes. It is an astonishing production. It is like impeccably staged in ways where the scenes are introduced. And I'm like, I don't know how you pull this scene off. Fuck yeah. Like knowing the movie where you're like, there's no way to translate this right now.

Beyond even the kind of like magic stage craft. Like the beetle juice stuff that's been done. Yeah. There is just, it is incredibly well-conceived. You can't put a hole in a woman's stomach. And they do. They do. Don't say Beetlejuice one more time.

I won't. Okay. I could play Lydia. Sure. Hey, Mom. I've never seen No, the only one I would do is Little Shop

Yeah It does feel like that's never going to close too It's really crushing Yeah It's little Yeah and unfortunately There's no shortage of Seymour It's all the most handsome men

On planet Earth Above 6-3 Are lining up to play Seymour It's going great Other things I want to talk about Justin Timberlake Who I have bristled at Just crazy that he's in

Maybe the two best movies of the decade. That's all. Yeah. I know. This is this period where... This is the benefits. It felt like he was like, I want to make a serious job at being an actor. Right. We're going to work with really serious guys. And he's not bad in it. He's totally fine. He gets the job done in this movie.

And he's really good in social network. And then he was like, great, thank you. I'll go be a movie star now. And everyone's like, Justin! No! You had it. You got to be in Shrek the third. Did you have enough? The three best movies of the decade. Honestly. That there was this feeling of, like, don't do in time.

Don't do friends with benefits. Don't do runner, runner. This isn't what we want of you. Runner. What if time was money? This. That was that movie. And social network are, like, working with the best directors alive who are using your energy in such smart ways.

I think he's really, really good. He's good in this. I mean, he's also just, I think it's a very clever piece of casting to, you know, have such an establish pop star, you know, play someone that Lewin would be chafing against. I mean, it was the era of that, wasn't it, though? Like, Adam Levine doing Begin Again and other films, you know. But he, like, really underplays this. I mean, the moment that I think he really nails is when Lewin goes, who wrote this shit?

And he takes the two seconds before saying me. Right. And he's like, how defensive am I going to be in this response? Given that I am eight levels above you in status at this point anyway. Yeah. But yet, you can tell that he kind of looks up to. Lewin creatively. Absolutely. He knows Louin is for real.

It's the magic of guys like this where even when they're shooting themselves in the foot and like everyone else is lapping them, they still look at them and they're like, but I want this guy's approval. Yeah, I want to be like him. And more than anything, I don't want his judgment. Right. I don't want him to feel like I'm part of the problem. It's, yes, I want to call out some other cast people.

I need to pull this name quickly. Jerry Goldsmith. Jerry Goldsmith is Mel. No, I'm sorry. His name is... Not Jerry Goldsmith. That's a famous composer. I was gonna say, Jerry Goldsmith is...

His name is... Thank you. Jerry Grayson, who I worked with on, but we're the gonzo. Oh, sure. He played the ornery old diner owner. Oh. I spent a lot of time with this guy.

Is he lovely? He passed away like months before this movie came out. This is his final performance. He was... It's a great final performance. Absolutely. It's really fantastic. It's incredible.

Yeah. He was an ornery old character actor who started out as part of a... duo act. He kind of had his own like Martin and Lewis thing. They played in Vegas. He was a little bit of a like Lewin Davis of his

comedy in the kind of like rat pack club era. And then he transitioned to being a really good character actor. He did a death of a salesman on Broadway and had a heart attack during intermission. This is his famous story. He finally died of heart disease.

But May 1st 9.95, a heart attack brings real drama to Broadway. He died. They brought him back to life and he was back on in the second act. You're fucking joking. I'm not joking you. Do you think he was the one who was like, I have to go on stage? Yeah. Yeah, I imagine. I feel that way too. Yeah. And the previously mentioned Sam Rugal, one of my best friends, I brought him to, this was like the first movie I was ever in back when I was an actor. And I brought him to the rap party and Sam got like buttonholed by Jerry Grayson, who monologued him for like an hour.

And Sam was in college in a film course. And he was like, I have to make a documentary about someone. Do you think Jerry would let us do it? And we went over to Jerry's apartment and just filmed Jerry talking for like five hours. He lived in like Tracy Letts's his basement. He had an apartment that was just like 20,000 Blu-rays and every photo of every show he did when he was like 25 going, look at how gorgeous I was. And then we go see Lou and Davis together and we're like, oh my God, Jerry Grayson.

It's the part his whole career's been building up to. And then we realized after walking out of the movie that he had died. But he's so fucking good in this and it felt like a beautiful capper to his career. Him saying get the fuck out of my office is a great line read. Yes. It's brilliant. He's brilliant. I'll say this too.

He died with a full head of hair. The guy had great jeans. He shaved it for this. No way. Oh, that's really cool. Because in my head I picture him as this bald guy. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful Bufana, man. Yeah.

Anyone else you want to shout out? His secretary. It's brilliant. He's so funny. Was, let me get her credits here as well. Yeah, she seems like someone who would be a legend. She had. She's one of these people.

Her name was Sylvia Cauders. She's one of these people who basically didn't hit until she was 65. Love those stories. And then was in like, she's in witness. She's the tourist with the camera that Harrison Ford threatens to punch. Paul Giamatti yells at her in a checkout line in American Splendor

She fights the predator With a broom and predator too Good City Hall of crimes and Mrs. Deminers Like this obviously She's like a classic The lead of your movie

yells at her for one scene kind of thing But she basically had Two careers For 30 years She was Philadelphia's Director of Special Events And she did like

the centennial, the bicentennial, and all the sorts of things. The Liberty Bell, she worked with like seven presidents. She cracked the Liberty Bell? She cracked it herself. That's crazy. She's pissed off. I never knew that it was her. She didn't look where she was going.

No, she didn't like the way it was looking at her. She hit it with a golf club. But she died shortly after this as well. It was one of her last performances. Oh, man. But yeah, just like lived a great life kind of supporting the arts and then finally, like, made it as a character actor. That's so funny.

when she was like 60 and was on fire until 87. The two of them really do have such a funny rapport in that office scene. Lenny, this is your space. Get all over it. It's your podcast now. Lenny's just having a time. Does Lenny have any podcast ideas?

Does he want to pitch to us? Probably like chicken. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. What's the format? Chicken and open running in a field. Okay.

So we have someone run after Lenny with a microphone in a field with a chicken. With chicken. And record what happens. between the two? Yeah, but the chicken can't be spiced or salted. Okay. That just has to be boiled to death.

Tricky diet. Yeah. Are he thinking audio only or video too? You have to have video. I mean, have you seen him? He's gorgeous. The man is made for video. He's so beautiful.

He's the Lenny the Wonder Dog. And it's the kind of content that should be up on Netflix. Can we buy the Lenny the Wonder Dog rights? Reboot it. I feel like if we talk to Oscar. Yes. And we said, look. Fartman will return.

Well, the twist is gender swap. You play Fartman. Uh-huh. Oscar plays someone else. Yeah. It's like a sleuth thing where now he's returning in a different role. Yeah, he's a Dr. Doom. No.

That's the move. That's the move. He's Doctor in Doom night and Apocalypse as well. Yes. Can Moon Knight be in Lenny the Wonder Dog with Rachel as detective Fartman? Both of them, his twin, but all three of them triplets now. Yeah. Good.

Ooy, o'oy. That's him being Moon Knight. Ooy, oy, oy. I'm just going to keep running through moments I want to call out because this is a movie of moments. Go ahead. Go ahead. In the Bud Grossman thing,

when he gets his performance moment, right? He already bombs the joke of asking for the $5 for the record. Astorical. Right. And then the guy's like, no, I'm actually getting tested you. You're fucking here. You have to play for me. He's unprepared, right?

He goes, here, stage. And Bud goes, not here. They're in an office. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But still, they're not on stage. They're performing in the audience with the overturned chairs on the tables. Beautiful scene.

And F. Murray Abraham. I feel like this is sort of at the beginning. of his like renaissance period because Grand Budapest is the following year. So good. It feels like he was sort of rediscovered after being dormant for a while. He of course did Ethan's almost an evening

his off-Broadway show many years ago and that felt like it was kind of in a fallow period for him. So I think Ethan's always been like a very big supporter of his. But he's doing this kind of like sphinx-like look of intensity of active listening while Lewin's performing.

And even though he has chosen the absolute or song to audition with. He is, like, crushing it, right? Sure. He's giving it his all. It's just a bad strategic move. And there's a moment where he looks up and makes direct eye contact with Bud.

And Bud seems to be, like, very deeply affected. What he reads is deeply affected by his performance. And Lewin starts putting English on it. Where the last, like, 30 seconds of the song, he starts hamming it up. Like, he's making swoony aisles and he smirks at him. Yeah. You know, and he's just sort of.

of like, I got him in my crosshairs. Here's the moment where I go in for the kill. And then the absolute deflation of, I don't see a lot of money here. Which, of course, is a cruel thing to say in a way. And of course, but he's just laying it out kind of plainly. It means, like, it's not, you're not good. It's more I don't, as a commercial agent for musicians, understand how I would make money. But that also that his biggest note against him, which is true is you don't connect with the

audience. You don't let people in. And in that moment, Lewin's like, oh, now I'm going to let him in. that he's doing this very kind of like phony, schmoozy charisma thing at the end of the song that try to draw the guy in. And he sees right through that.

Right. He's like, you don't have it. You don't have the thing that speaks to people. You're a good musician. And it's because he's unresolved as a person. Right. Right. And I think there are people like Bob Dylan say, right,

who are kind of like unresolved and don't operate by the rules of society, but yet they cannot help but communicate something that means something to other people. And those types of people drive the people like Lewin Davis insane because they're not able to point to them and go like, yeah, but that guy sold out. That guy's being palatable. That guy plays the game, right?

That's how he wants to be received as just like, we're taking you as you are. And, yeah, I mean, it's like the beauty of the movie ending with him literally walking out on Bob Dylan playing because the guy's about to beat the shit out of him. And the guy's about to beat the shit out of him because he doesn't know how to process his emotions at Poppy telling him that he also slept with Carrie Mulligan where he is possessive of her even though he's an asshole.

And he is not her boyfriend. Right. Or husband. Or husband. Right. And in that final scene where they actually have chemistry together. And he wasn't a member of in sync. He wants to believe.

He was never an in sync. In pop, their best song. But he clearly wants to believe that in her mind, it's like, Lewin's the great love of my life. And unfortunately, I can't ever be with him, right? that I'm the only person she sits on her husband with. But he does want to be A number one.

He never wants to settle down with her. He wants the idea that she wants him more than her boring husband. And the idea that she would sleep with someone else, even though the implication is perhaps she slept with him again recently, specifically to get Lew in stage time, because she feels bad for him, pisses him off so much that his rage gets misdirected at the most genuine folk act in the entire movie, which then leads to the next night him missing the guy who will define folk

music in America for the next century, forever? And the idea, it's like, I got you on stage the night the Times is there. And you're like, great news. The Times is going to write about the guy who went on right after you. The moment Dylan goes on stage, everything before that becomes a footnote in the book. It becomes the prologue to what actually mattered. And they write about that moment in this really great book by David Hadjew called Positively Fourth Street, which is about like Joan Baez. is it Carlos Farina, Mimi Farina, and Bob Dylan. And they talk about, like, that first night

and how absolutely no other act that night mattered. The first time Bob Dylan was ever reviewed by the times. And it wasn't, they weren't necessarily good reviews. Richard Farina. Sorry, Richard Farina. Thank you. They speak of him as if his voice, I think they say, like, a machete-through metal, like sheet metal.

They, like, say that about his voice, but it still made such an impact. It's so special, undeniable. Different. Something has happened here and everything's been leading up to this. He's kind of like a complete unknown in my name. He's hard to know. Oh, man.

I remember you. Complete unknown. Say that again? A complete unknown. I think there's a movie here. Lenny, don't growl at me. Jesus. No, Lenny knows that I also auditioned for that.

Oh, well. You would have been good. Hey, thanks. Monica was amazing. She's a phenomenal. She's wonderful in that movie. I was kind of dreading that movie because I love Lewin Davis so much. And I remember you seeing it and

telling me the thing that's kind of miraculous about it is it actually works as a companion piece? Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. Because that movie is about, I mean, not to get too much on it, but it's about Dylan, you know, is the opposite of Lewin. He's charmed in this way that no one can understand. Where everyone's like, what's your deal? And they're like, what the fuck? And he's like, I'm famous. I guess. They mean to be. It all lines up for him. Like people like pave the road underneath his feet. Right. And then anytime anyone's like, so what you do is great, keep doing it. He's like, going to do something else. And they're like, what the fuck? But it's, you know, that's how he keeps it.

That movie's refusal to pathologize him is what is smart about it, that it views him like E.T. And everyone else is trying to make sense around him. Why isn't there a scene where he, like, looks in a mansion on a hill? And then you cut to him writing the song, Mansion on a Hill. What movie could I be talking about right now? But Lou and David is the opposite. Movie where he watches Badlands and is like, writes Badlands.

Stop. This land isn't very good. Sorry, is that real. Sorry. What if this land is bad? You'll see it. Fuck. You might like it.

Guys, I'm from New Jersey. I know, and we love the boss, and there's things about the movie that worked for me. And you audition for that part as well, right? You had different for Bruce. One, a two! I would have been amazing.

You would have been, you'd be like, highways jump with broken heroes on the last chance of power drive. Come on. Rachel's wearing a jean jacket and it's jangling. I have a bandana at my back pocket. Covered in jingly things.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I just, I love that this movie is the inverse where it's like, let's spend a lot of time getting into the headspace of someone who cannot fucking figure it out. Yeah.

Which is just always, it went well rendered. But it's always relevant. Drugs to me. Yeah, I absolutely feel the same way. I think that's why it was so moving to me even as a young teenager to feel like, oh yeah.

I mean, this is what it's like. And that is such a teenage feeling, too, to be like, when am I ever going to get it together? And it's like, not for another 15 years, bitch. Yeah, like, it's just, do you know what I mean? So I feel like it really does speak to so many audiences. And to some degree, it is like, the worst thing you can do is trying to fight the why can't I get it together thing versus like trying to absorb lessons from everything that happens

to you. The aforementioned sitcom pilot with the cat that didn't go, I remember having an emotional breakdown to a comedy mentor of mine at a bar that New Year's Eve when I, I was like 23, and I was like, my life is fucking ruined. And she was like, the industry sucks. And I was like, you don't get it, but this was the thing. And she just looked at me and went, everything is the thing. Everything's the thing.

And I was like, no, but you're wrong. I've been in shitty fucking college humor shorts. Those weren't the thing. She's so right. With every passing year, I'm like, everything is the thing. Everything is the thing. Everything is the thing. It is the whole point of the kind of cyclical loop nature of this movie.

And you realize what passes you by is meant to until you learn the lesson. you will learn the same lesson over and over again until you actually learn it. Right, because there's a framing of this movie that is he had one shot and it was to blow away the New York Times reporter at that show. But yet, the performance he gives for the New York Times reporter

He does a good job. It's the best performance in the whole movie. And it's actually a moment of processing for him. He solves something in himself there in a minor way. I think he has made some progress. And I think he's going to be okay in about like 20, 22, you know. moving at this pace, I'm saying, like, it's a slow, slow. I think it's, yeah, yeah.

I think 22 more loops of the same week is also just one of those. I'm just imagining he's like 95 and he's like, you know, I think I'm actually pretty healthy at this point. I figured it out. I just need to call this out because you said you think this is why the movie relates to so many people. Our researcher JJ, who I first must call out, text at us, by the way, most of the high school kids that I tutor don't give a shit about movies, but when they do, they have almost always said

that their favorite movie star is Rachel. Granted, this is a sample of like five students who actually care about movies. Five Wisconsinites love Rachel. Listed her, but still. Okay, three of five Wisconsinites love Rachel. Rachel's making an appreciative face just for the listener. No, I don't, I don't have the words. It's really, really sweet. You matter. Now, that started with, by the way, because it was following up this anecdote. Here we go. I have this full sense. memory of walking to a Trader Joe's in Evanston, a few days after seeing Inside Lewin Davis, and at one point Julie, JJ's wife, and I turned to each other and we're like, that's our favorite movie of the year. And we just talked about all the stuff. We love the

whole walk there. And then we grocery shopped. And when we got to the cashier, unprompted, he immediately said, I need to warn you about this movie. You should not see. It's called Inside Lewin Davis. And it's one of the worst movies I've ever seen. And they said, this is a Trader Joe's, right? Like, he hadn't heard us talking about it. He was just genuinely concerned we might see a movie that he thought was too sad. So the thing is, that's such a Trader Joe's employee thing to fucking do. Where they analyze your basket and go, oh, is it Taco Night?

None of your fucking business. Yeah. I'm a New Yorker. I don't want to fucking talk to you about my... I'm kidding. I'm so joking. But that is a likely thing where they see somebody who has, like, a melancholic look on their face and be like, warning. there's a really sad movie after you know.

And the idea that they were saying this to every person they rung up for hours. Yeah, probably. But I think this is a movie where either you see it and like a lightning bolt to your brain, you're like, oh my God, that's the human condition. Yeah. Or you're like, why the fuck would I want to spend time with this guy? No, quite literally, yes. That's exactly what it is.

People who are allergic to this movie, I can't even fault them. I couldn't understand it. I don't get it. I actually kind of don't really get it either. I don't get it. And I don't respect it. It's not like a misery porn movie. Like it would be different if it was like it was a really wrenching movie about truly,

really awful shit. I'd be like, I get that you don't want to watch that. Fine. But it's not really. And it's also, you know, it's short and like,

yes, nothing really happens, but in Cohen's fashion does move. Every scene's really interesting. It's got great performances. There's this really hot guy who plays Lewin Davis. His name's Oscar Isaac. You can look at his face the whole time.

It's so hot. Can we talk a little post? Oscar. Okay. Because he gets Star Wars, and he's in what is sort of designed to be the Han Solo equivalent role, right? As you said, JJ offers him the movie, and originally his character supposed to die, but they love him. And he said, that's what I just did in Born Legacy. I can't keep being the kind of like fake out lead of a different movie who's done by the end of the first act. And so they keep him alive. I think he's excellent in that movie. He's kind of the best part of that franchise, in my opinion.

When they announced that cast, I was like, here we go. He is the guy who is going to pop from this because I assume that the major recalculation they're doing in the Disney Star Wars era is these things need to be funny again. They have to stop being so self-serious. And what we need is that kind of off-the-hump,

bad boy Harrison Ford Energy. And Oscar Isaac is a really good analog for that. And I remember seeing a most violent year, with my father, which comes out the year after this. Is that correct? Coming out the year after this? Good movie. So the year before Star Wars?

My dad and I walk out a Most Violent Year, and we both are like, we're watching 70s Pacino. Pacino is the comp from that one, for sure. 100%. But Lewin Davis and Most Violent Year, and that's an okay movie that I think he's excellent in. He's really good. I like the movie.

But it just felt like this guy is doing like Godfather, Godfather 2, Serpico, dog day afternoon back to back. This guy is on fucking fire. We're about to watch like a generational run. And then Star Wars comes out, and a problem I've identified before is Adam Driver basically takes... Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Now streaming on Paramount Plus is the epic return of Mayor of Kingstown. Warden? You know I am.

Starring Academy Award nominee Jeremy Runner. I swear in these worlds. Emmy Award winner Edie Falco. You're an ex-con who ran this place for years. And now, now you can't do that. And Bafto Award winner Lenny James. You're about to have a plague. of outside as descend on your town.

Let me tell you this. It's got to be consequences. Mayor of Kingstown, new season now streaming on Paramount Plus. Everything good? This thing's unplugged. Yeah. Well, thankfully, I have a backup. Do we need to plug it back in? Just keep talking. It's okay.

I got it. No, Rachel, sit down. Sit down. It's fine. It's fine. No, you're not guilty. It's my son. You're innocent. No, I'm not. It's not your fault that people are walking down. the hallway. Whoa, he brought the whole Mac down. Don't worry. It's just a little Mac mini. It's all good. You say that and then

Reddit. Reddit's going to go ablaze. Rachel's Zedler can't control her dog. Reddit a Blaze. And it's true. Reddit A Blaze. It's just funny to me that there was also this notion that Star Wars was kind of a career dead end for people, right? That Harrison Ford was

the only star like Birth by Star Wars and even in the prequels, the people who had heat going in, it stalled out their career for a bit, like Natalie Portman and Ewan. and the people that George discovered, like Hayden Christensen, got a little cursed. And then you're like, not only is the curse reversed here, but it's Darth Vader who becomes the totemic leading man.

Yes. And that Adam Driver's run for the next 15 years is it feels like he absorbs every... You bring this up a lot. One fourth of the roles that Oscar Isaac should have had. And I'm not saying that Oscar Isaac would have done them better, but it's like he took every serious leading man role. and there was no space left and Oscar Isaac's choices in the vacuum

have been a little disappointing only because you're like isn't this guy just supposed to be like fucking like throwing no hitters over and over and over again? I think this is the pressure you put on Oscar Isaac. I put so much pressure on him. I don't put this pressure on him so much.

I agree with that. I sort of. I think Oscar's doing great. I love him but I know what you mean. The one thing you can always guarantee is that he's going to be the best. best thing in whatever he does. I haven't seen Frankenstein yet.

Did you like him in Frankenstein? The Del Toro. I know you just thought. Here's what I'll say. I like Frankenstein and I like him in it. Alorty is the best thing in it. Sure. I love that for Jake.

He's incredible in it. And Alorty now has a little bit of that energy of Oscar Isaac in this era. And it's just like, this guy's doing interesting stuff. Yeah. Jake's great. Yes. That's a talented young actor. I think he's an unbelievable actor.

Yeah. That makes me really happy. But there's something kind of so unique and special that is captured within this movie that is such a complete performance and feels so unique to him. As much as I wish he could have done this like a hundred times, going back to the idea of like why doesn't he sing more? There's something about this as just like one perfect document. Well, that's the thing.

You want it to be a special moment because then if all he ever did was sing, it just wouldn't be a special anymore. We're going to play the box office game. Rachel's or anything else we haven't touched on the movie that's just great it's just fucking great A plus

Can we shout out the sister scenes Because we didn't really touch upon that And I just because there's a quote here That I love that I think encapsulates the movie So well When she's talking about getting another job He says to her And what just exist

Is that what we do outside of show business? We just exist It's so good To say to his sister too It's crazy Yeah Yeah. Film was bought by CBS Films, of course,

who I think did a fine job releasing it and it made a little bit of money. They made 13 mil, domestic 32 worldwide. Like, it did fine. That's actually really great for 17 mils. It got the two. It got cinematography. Rapturously received, won a prize it can.

But, like, rudely snubbed in Best Original Song, screenplay. Obviously, Oscar Isaac, agreed just snub. The Best Original Song category is very tricky, though, because it could not have been written, like the words could not have been written first. Please, Mr. Spaceman, was the one to put up. I believe they did.

Yes. Please, it's a case. Uh-oh. Sorry, yes. Hunger Games had that same problem. Yeah, because the lyrics were written in the book. It didn't count as original. That's actually really funny.

That's crazy. So stupid. Even though the melody was new. Not written. Yeah. But yeah, so like that, that category can be very, very tricky. So if any of those,

like lyrics had been pulled from something that was well known or known at all. Right, right, right. And of course, it's a lot of folk music that's already extant. CBS films, I was looking it up last night, basically releases their first film in January 2010 and their last film

in October 2019. Interesting. They are like entirely a 2010s thing and are now completely defunct. Sorry, who was the, what was the second nomination? It was cinematography and what? Sound. I'll give it. Yeah, that makes sense. Deserving.

Yeah, great sound. Lost to gravity for both. Yeah, that makes sense. Let's throw Carrie Mulligan in there. What was the thing I was going to say? CBS definitely tried to do a kind of O'Brother thing with this. There's the concert film that's now harder to see. They did a concert for the New York Film Festival that was filmed at Town Hall.

We performed there. And Rachel did the National Anthem via the Ninth Annual Anthem. Yeah, please. Via phone. Yes, via phone. that was a true like we are wasting this talented woman's time not at all it was so much fun okay Lenny was in it too

got a standing ovation from the crowd we made everyone stand up with their hands up they were already doing it yeah um this film came out December 3rd 2013 mere days before my first date with my wife well well that's cute unfortunately we went to see Dallas Byers Club instead she'd already seen it number one at the box office is a film from the Walt Disney Corporation, Griffin.

Been out for three weeks. Yes, you can. Iron Man 3? No, that is a great guess, but that was the summer of this year. Fuck! Okay. So this is December, November.

So it's not, okay, Disney. Is this the Frozen year? Frozen. Oh, yeah, Frozen came out. Yeah, in November of that year, right? Yeah. So Frozen's doing rather well. I'm checking my notes here.

Quite a big hit. I mean, Frozen is one of those things. Insane. Just today, I dropped my daughter off at school, and as was true, as is true, almost any time you drop a child any place, someone was in an else address. Yeah. One kid's going to be in an else address. I love that, actually. That's the kind of cultured ubiquity you cannot, you know, recreate, right?

It is one of the most culturally omnipresent things. Like, Frozen has as much saturation as, like, bananas. Yeah. Number two of the box office. Interesting, Rachel. What could this be? It's from a... Catching fire.

Ding-ming-ming. Yeah. Francis Lawrence's. The Hunger Games Cratching Fire. In my opinion... It's the best Hunger Games film. I think it's the best of the original series, for sure. And it's got the trick where they expand to IMAX,

which I think is really cool for the games. Very, very good movie. Number three at the box office is new this week. From a director, I was just making fun of his new movie. Wow. You were just making fun of his new movie. It's not a hill. Oh.

It's a Scooper picture. Scott Cooper Picture. Is it Crazy Heart? No, Crazy Hearts are early. Earlier. Is it out of the furnace? It is out of the furnace. A film I've never seen with Christian Bale.

Rachel, it's weird that face you're making right now because this is a movie that absolutely exists that we talk about all the time. New Jersey. Oh, fuck. It's about guys in New Jersey who are a little unsavory. Crazy Heart wins Jeff Ritches the Oscar and they announced like, this is Scott Cooper's follow up and he's got like 10 of the best actors alive in it and everyone's a crack in their knuckles. How have I never heard of this movie? Absolute banger coming. Movie comes out.

And I actually quite like Scott. So, like, and he's a really nice guy. Just a movie that made him. Everyone loves Scott Cooper and I shouldn't be making fun of him. Exactly. It's not making fun of him. It's a zero impact movie. I've never seen it.

I've never seen it. It was a movie that made like not very much money and didn't get any Oscar buzz. But number three. But it's opening number three in December. Not bad. Number four of the box office, this is a film I did see on a date with my wife. It is a Marvel film. The Marvel film of Current came out about a month ago.

Oh, oh, just a current at the time. The November 2013 Marvel film. Was this Thor, Thor, the Dark War? Thor of the Dark World, SIF. Starring Zachary Levi. He is in there. I wouldn't say he's starring. Starring Shazam 2's Zachary Levi.

He's there. It is a movie that David and I vowed for very hard. Fun movie. That we really like that we put upper Marvel tier. I really like that movie. I will say, I like... Thor the Dark World. Rachel seems skeptical.

Yeah. Are you a Marvel Girlie? I am a Marvel Girlie. I haven't seen Thor the Dark World. Check it out. Cat Dennings. I love Cat Dennings. Everyone's rude to it.

I know this about that film that people are rude to it I shouldn't be I quite like the Thor franchise from what I have seen very fun yeah it's the one that kind of takes the mythology seriously and I'm not saying that in a nerd jerk off way but it's like

what if we treated this like yeah fucking they're they're gods yeah it also looks good in a way a lot of the Marvel movies don't number five of the box office is a comedy that kind of is it's a

movie star comedy movie star comedy is kind of at the end of his comedy movie star era, one of those posters where he's literally doing this. He's doing the phase. Is it Vince von Delivery Man? Bam. There we go. Oh, wow.

David's impression for the listener. I did a pretty good impression of the poster. He's like, I have 53 children or whatever. This is like, he's like a sperm donor. Yeah. And it turns out he has like 200 children. Oh, it's 533 children. Wow.

Jesus. Strong swimmers. This is like, sorry. A bunch of Michael Phelps in those testes. Hey, oh. this is like Pete Griffin auditioning for everything

struggling actor period I think you're one of the 500 I think I straight up audition for 15 different kids because they kept being like we liked your read on this we went a different way

we have six more kids we want you to read for because some of the kids are like leads some of the kids are one scene some of the kids are one line they just kept throwing more sons at me

yeah not in the film not in the film the other films out Home Front. Is that the one with Franco that, like, Sylvester Stallone wrote? Yes, it's this old Stallone script that was made with Statham. Statham is the good guy and Franco's the bad guy.

He's an American patriot being hunted by Franco as a creep. Franko is an evil meth dealer. Right. Who plays Franco's wife and that? Of course, Winona Ryder plays Gator's girlfriend. There we go. Franco's playing a character called Gator. And Kate Bosworth plays Cater's mean sister.

Okay. You got number seven. You got the book thief. Is that like an inspirational Holocaust movie? It is a Holocaust film. It's a great book. Great book.

The movie's... The movie's lackluster, but you got Jeffrey Rush in there, which is really great. G.R.'s there. Is it a Mark Forster? It's... Hmm.

What's it? Mark Forster? It's really great. It's a Holocaust story told from the perspective of death in the book, at least. Oh, I like the round of that. Is it? Mark Zusack is the author, I think.

Really, really, really great. Marcus Zususus. Zach. The director of this film is Brian Percival. He never really made a lot of movies. He's down to nabby guy. Yeah, okay. That's so funny, Brian Percival. Isn't those, aren't those two of Dumbledore's middle names?

Rachel, I believe you. I believe you are correct. Wolfrick Brian Dumbledore. I think, and I am embarrassed to admit, I think, without checking, I know you are correct. Dumbledore. Remember in the fifth book when he's just like, Harry just

experienced a great tragedy, watch someone die in front of him? How do I make this about me? I think I'm going to ignore him all year. That's my strategy. Number eight at the box office is... By the way, when's the FBI going to release the secrets of Dumbledore? They have that list. They're sitting on the files.

All of Dumbledore's secrets. It's just so funny, those... There were three of those movies, and they were like, and the secrets will soon be revealed. Never, because this franchise is done. Number eight is the Best Man Holiday. The sequel to The Best Man. Yeah.

Sort of like a sequel almost. Yeah. No, definitely. Then number nine, the, in my opinion, wildly underrated drama Philomena with Judy Dench. She'll have ever seen here. Guys, I have a note from Judy Dench. What? And does it say what?

Like, sorry, I rear-ended your car to post it. She put it on your windshield. How did you know? A cat is not a dog. Can I just say, this is the second time on this podcast I'm revealing a note. Right, because you had a note from Barb. From Barb.

Right. Judy came to see Avita. And I went into my dressing room one day and there was a beautiful blue note and I was struggling to read it She's got very chicken scratch writing but apparently it's because her eyes had given out And that was... She has very poor eyes at the point That was the last line of the note

was like sorry for my appendmanship I can't see shit essentially is what she said But it's the letterhead I didn't look from the desk I didn't look at the letterhead I was just trying to read this chicken scratch Right right It was Judy Dent

And so now I have it in a double-sided frame Did she like you? She liked it. She liked it. The note said it's dropping out that I thought you were okay. The note said you were shit in this. Basic. Yeah.

Patty did it better. What a queen, Judy. Yeah. That's very cool. She loved her so much. Filomena. Filomena herself. And number 10 is Black Nativity, the Casey Lemons movie.

Oh, sure. Which I've never seen another, like, big ensemble family movie. I mean, it's the season. It's the season. Tis the season. Tis the season. And number 11 Dallas Byers Club, soon to be seen on a date by me and my wife.

God, what a time. What a time. What a time. At the Williamsburg Theater. At the Williamsburg Theater. That's where I saw Megan. Caldron of romance. That is where, it is the law requires you see Megan there.

Mithrigan. I was gonna ask you to correct. Thank you for Mithrigan. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Mithrigan. Mithrigan. I love this movie. Me too. Yeah, I love Mithregan.

No, I love Lou and Davis. I could watch this movie every day of my love. And I did my freshman year of high school. Yeah. It's got really great rewatchability, actually, because as you get older, as you go through different things, you notice different things about it. You have different sympathies. You have different annoyances. It's really fucking fantastic.

And also rewatching it feels like resetting the cycles of his life. Yeah. Yeah. I said, I mean, I actually had to, like, stop myself from saying this to Ethan Cohen at a party once. Did you mean, did you stage his talk? I met him, and I pretended that I didn't know who he was. Rachel. I was really nervous.

No, he didn't say, like, I'm Ethan Cohen. He said, my name is Ethan. I was like, cool, what do you do? You know? That's quite a move. You have to. You have to. I'm so sorry.

I can't. Like, I really, I got so nervous. Because how do I explain that I've seen the movie like 300 something times? I think you could say that to him and he would go, oh? Or he'd go, why? What's wrong with you? I do think that's how he was fine. What prescription are you on?

I think that kind of joke. How much Zoloft do you take? I think you're right that this is, he'd pull. pull out a list of alts and they'd be all the things you just said. I don't think that's a guy who takes compliments. No. I imagine that's true. He probably deflects it with a joke. You're right. And that's why I like wouldn't dare compliment

him. He's probably been complimented enough. He does ask for, he was he did ask my best friend for an opinion on his current play that is playing with Aubrey Plaza. And like they all went out after my best friend happened to be there. And he was like, should I change this?

Like asked her for like genuine advice and she said, I think you should keep it in and he did. which is really cool. These are really cool people. Like, they're just, I mean, you can't, you can't deny it after watching one of their films. You're like, a really cool person out to have made this.

And, like, they are cool people. It would be funny if they were total squares. Total squares. They were like, I love Jay Crewe. And old Navy. Right, exactly. Just calm music. Well, wait a second.

Well, hey now. Ben is right there. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't. Right. It's just a historian. You're an impartial historian. Ben, you were a, Former tuba player.

I was going to say there was a read... Don't you dare in front of a Rachel. I was a... Hey, I was an alto saxophone player. There you go. Shout out, tuba. Shout out band. Shout out band.

Well, I was technically a woodwind. I guess the sax is technically. Yes, it is. You know, it's got the metal on the outside. Okay. I guess that's cool. Whatever you say. I'm a scott appreciator.

And I, but I also... I don't want someone to come for me as far as like my lack of scott. You didn't want some baggy trousered fellow knocking on your door. He starts swinging around his fucking chained wallet and ropes me. What a nightmare. Dyes you up in some suspender. Hicking you with his checkerboard vans. Trying to think of other, exactly.

Steel-toed checkerboard vans. Rachel, thank you very much for taking the time in your very busy schedule to come do this bullshit for two and a half hours. Stop. I'm genuinely like so honored because I love talking about this movie and I'll talk about movies with you guys. It's lovely to talk to you. Time for me to plug the Evita album. That's what I was going to ask. Yeah.

Please. I'm kidding. Because when does this drop, guys? When do you think? Oh, pretty soon. Let's find out. It's going to drop on November 2nd. Awesome.

So the Evita album is going to be available. It's selections from the Evita album. It's not the full thing on October 24th. So by the time you are listening to this, it'll be out on all the platforms. And I should listen to it on a stairmaster, right, going up and downstairs. So you get the full experience. And then you should go and go outside. And go outside on a balcony and, like, look up at the, like, don't be on the balcony.

You've got to, like, go outside, look up at a balcony. Oh, okay. Oh, right. And to listen to Argentina. To don't cry from Argentina. You should just find the nearest balcony in your eye line and focus on it. And also, tweet at Cash Patel demand the release of the full Avita cast recording. Oh, yeah, exactly.

With selections. I can't say anything on this matter, but just know that I feel the same way. 10 tracks, 10 tracks, the three-hour fucking musical. Release the full. And it's sung through. And it's a song through. It's an opera. At least the secrets of Dumbledore and the crimes of Criminals.

Please do that. Is there anything else you want to plug? Is there anything else coming up? Not really. Okay. Let's just like, I don't know, call your senators and pressure them to bring Evita to Broadway. This is a very good point. It's a number one issue plaguing our country today.

It's a national matter. There is a criminal lack of a Vita on Broadway. Go vote, Mom Dani, guys. Yeah. Well, this will come out. Election day is two days from now. If you live in New York, please, go and vote. The name is Mom Dony.

And I will say when I went to vote in the primary and I was going to my early voting location. I voted early. Not to brag. Right, not to brag. The Zoran canvasser came up to me and said, Are you Davis for blank check? And I said yes.

And she said I'm a big fan of your show. I'm so sorry. Zoran, Mom Donnie, friend of the pod. Let's get Zoran on. He could do it. What movie do you think he'd come and talk to you guys about. Well, not one of his mom's movies because that would be too personal.

I was talking about this with someone. I was like, if we had done Miranayer three years ago, it would have looked cool and it would have been easier to book him now. If you would have been like, oh, you guys did that? That's like...

That's cool. Right. Now we can't do without looking like we're trying to get his attention. No, whatever. What's his favorite movie? Let's find out. We should find out.

This is a big voting issue. Yeah. Yeah, we should be hearing this more. What if he doesn't like inside Lewin Davis? Cuomo's just like, my favorite movie is, whatever the best movie is. whatever everyone agrees.

Who's the other guy? Slewa? Slewa. Him being like, gangs of New York is about me. Slewa was spitting bars at that debate. I'm so sorry. He was obsessed with the parades.

The parade part where they were like, did you watch it? Where they're like, you know, what parades would you do? What parades would you do? What parades are like, the mayor should be at all parade. Parades are the most important thing

I will never say no to a parade. I'd be in a parade. It was at three in the morning. I'd be at the fucking parade. It's amazing It's amazing He's like I was shot at a 7-Eleven

It's like It's shit like that That really I don't know Maybe he'd be a friend of the pod Does he run like Like Jumpin'Jack flash Oh, because Penny Marshall

Because Penny Marshall Absolutely Penny Marshall We always say the Penny Marshall's next Thank you again Rachel Hey thank you guys so much Thank you all for listening Hey we love you

You're the best I am You're three out of five tutored kids' favorite movie star. I will take it. That's like two, three more than I ever thought I'd have. Golden Globe winner and consensus favorite of JJ Birch's pupils. Oh, thanks, Jay. Thank you all for listening.

Please remember to rate review and subscribe. Tune in next week for Hail Caesar? Next week is Hail Caesar with Shirley Lee. With the great Shirley Lee returning to the show. And I'm going to say this very quoth. quietly because I don't want to get upset. David is very much O the L in that episode.

You're awful. Oh, am I? I don't remember. What'd you do? I don't know. I have no memory. Shirley gets it out of you. Shirley's my pal.

I love it. I actually really love Hail Caesar, so that's great. It's a great movie. And as always, Detective Fart, man. Perfectly timed bark. Lenny's like,

there's a fucking guy in the honor. That's Lenny the Wonder Dog. Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch.

Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to Blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank CheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.