Blank Check with Griffin & David - James and the Giant Peach with Emma Stefansky

Episode Date: December 4, 2022

Bugs! So many bugs! And…Richard Dreyfuss?? The Bug Queen Emma Stefansky returns to the podcast to celebrate all the creepy crawlies in 1996’s JAMES AND THE GIANT PEACH. We’re talking about stone fruit, Randy Newman, and cinema’s sexiest spider in this episode. Plus, we rank our favorite bugs AND our favorite Roald Dahl adaptations, and we learn about how Ben got his scar. Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

What are they? Crocodile tongues. Tongues? What are they? Crocodile tongues. Tongues? Long, slimy crocodile tongues boiled in the skull of a dead witch for 40 days and 40 nights.

And the gizzard of a pig, the fingers of a young monkey, the beak of a parrot, and three spoonfuls of sugar. And then let the podcast do the rest. Good. Good job. Only took two takes.

Very, very good. It only took two takes. I'm sick. You're the magic man. I'm the magic man. I have a head cold. Okay, he's got a head cold. Jesus Christ. Because I usually, if we do a musical, I try to butcher one of the songs. Oh, sure.

I felt like I couldn't do it. I couldn't do justice to what I think are... What you think are what? This is what's wild. I will admit this is a movie. I watched a lot as a child, so the songs are just baked into my skull. But we had this argument on the Princess and the Frog episode. I love Randy Newman. I do too.

He is one of my favorite. He's the best. Musicians of all time. I mean, look. One of my all-time favorite songwriters. Exactly. I love him. I'll admit, he's written a lot of songs over the years.

And, you know, some might call him his movie work these days. A little bit of a paycheck thing. I love him. Princess and the Frog songs, save for almost there, pretty forgettable. And this for me is an example of good Randy Newman story songs and you seem to have the exact opposite opinion. Look,

I haven't seen this film since theaters. So I haven't seen it in you know, what is that? It's almost 20 years. 20. 14, 16 years. Yeah, sure. And I fired this up and I'm watching it.

And then I was like, damn, this is a musical? I like had forgotten. I had no memory of the songs. The structure of this movie is pretty much alternating between musical number and action sequence. Yeah. For the middle 40 minutes. It's got a very odd structure. It's a 70 minute movie. I mean. It's got a very odd structure. It's a 70-minute movie.

I mean, right? There's 40 minutes of stop motion. I was doing the stopwatch on it. He goes into the Peach Minute 20, and then at one hour, they land in New York City and he becomes human again. That sounds right. And it's really over at 70 minutes,

and then there's long credits. 75, and then very long credits, yeah. It's just funny. It's like 20 minutes 15 minutes 40 minutes stop motion in the middle long in credits just didn't remember the songs with like six musical notes five i'm seeing here here i guess there's the one that randy sings over the end credits which is called good news i got good news for you in the paper gotta read that news. The other songs I'm seeing listed here are My Name is James, That's the Life for Me, Eating the Peach, and Family.

I can sing all of these songs by heart, word for word, perfect. We believe you. Didn't get an Oscar nomination for any of these songs. It got an Oscar nomination for Best Original Score, Musical, or Comedy. Did it? Yes. And it weirdly when they still were splitting score into genres, which they did only for a couple years. They should do it again. But it weirdly didn't get a song nomination.

This is the year after Toy Story. Can you imagine how hot I was on Randy Newman at this moment in time? Listen. here are the five song nominees this year. It's actually pretty good. Okay, 1996. I mean, the movie, well, you know what? Introduce the podcast

and introduce our guests and then we can... This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear

and sometimes they bounce like a giant peach on a hill, baby. Boing. Bump. This is a miniseries on the films of Henry Selleck. It is called

Ben Hosley's The Podmare Before Castman. Correct. Producer gets top billing on this one. Correct. People will think, did Ben Hosley host every episode?

Was he the only one on mic? And you're like, no, actually, it was Griffin and Dave, and they never got credit. That's right. The residuals are pretty good, but they're still bitter about it. Never shut up about it. Never shut up about it. This is the second film that Tim Burton produced for Henry Selick.

It was obviously less hands-on in this film, even less than Nightmare. But this movie was certainly pushed as once again from producer Tim Burton. They're back. And when this film was released on Blu-ray about 10 years ago, the Blu-ray disc that I popped into my player to watch this last night, it very proudly states on the top of the Blu-ray case,

from the director of Alice in Wonderland. That's where we were at that point in time. That the greatest selling point of this movie was... That it was from, in some vague sense, the guy who made Alice in Wonderland. I don't even remember

if they mentioned Nightmare Before Christmas on the box. And it certainly was very big at that point. But this film is called James and the Giant Peach. Yes.

It has five certifiable bangers. Five rip-snorting pop hits. Of Randy the man the new. Clogging up the runtime. I fucking love them. I love these songs. But this, yes, this lost best original or comedy score to Emma,

Rachel Portman classic. Yeah, yeah. You've also got Mark Shaman for The First Wives Club, Alan Menken for Hunchback, and Helen Zimmer for The Preacher's Wife. Those are the kinds of nominations we lost. Yeah, I know. And they stopped splitting up the categories.

Men in Black got a score nomination. Remember that? I mean, there's that clip. Choreographed number. So good. Bring it back. Okay. So I assume that one of the Hunchback songs got nominated?

No. Fuck. Which is also rude because that's got a great... You can talk, by the way. You forgot to introduce our guest. I haven't forgotten to introduce our guest. I'm waiting for her to talk. You gotta speak on mic.

Come on. I was laughing before. You were guest. I'm waiting for her to talk. You gotta speak on mic. Come on. I was laughing before. You were laughing. I was giving a little chuckle. Let people know that you approve of what's happening. Wait. Wait a second. Wait a second what?

It is fucked up that Hercules didn't get. David is slowly unfurling the fingers. I wish I had the smoking jacket I could give her. This is five times main fee. Main fee. One time paywall? Correct. Yeah.

Okay. So let's count them. The weight. Avatar, the weight of water. David is weighing his own sweet green hibiscus berry and clover tea. It's pretty good, actually. The weight of water. Uh-huh.

Mrs. Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children. Yep. A movie that absolutely exists. Yeah. It's a classic. It does. It's a classic. I can prove Children. Yep. A movie that absolutely exists. Yeah. It's a classic. It does. It's a classic. I can prove it.

Yes. Sorry, Emma. I just kicked her. It's fine. Now, this is the sneaky one. The sneaky one. People forget about this episode. We're not on it.

Oh, Birds of Prey. That's right. Girl gang episode. Yes. Yeah. And then I would say fourth is maybe her most iconic appearance. This is the best day of my life. Yeah.

And we finally let her be on a good movie, a movie she loves, which is it was in the pandemic animated film. Treasure Planet. Oh, of course. Of course. And Emma's been Ben knows Ben remembers. And here we go. Big five.

Big five for our guest. Emma Stefanski. There you go. The queen of books and bugs and bugs discussing bugs with a z james and the giant peach it was one of these things when we slap selic on the spreadsheet we were like well obviously it was her name just uh auto filled in the spreadsheet um did you mean to type yeah right, right. Clippy showed up and threw it in there. Bugs and bugs.

Yeah, I mean, jeez. I honestly shocked. Good point by you that Hunchback was ignored because I think Hunchback's got some lovely songs. Do you think they pushed Someday, the big ballad? Right. And it was kind of like, eh, we're sick of those Disney ballads. Although I do think that one's good.

I mean, I think it's fine. The problem is the best song in the movie is Hellfire, which they were never going to nominate. But imagine someone performing that on the Oscars. This was also the era though. Maximum of sexual repression. That movie is so good.

But that must, because Out There and Someday are kind of like the big ballady, I guess. But what's it called? King of Fools is a good song. Topsy Turvy. That's what that song is called. I mean, look, yeah. But what's it called? King of Fools is a good song. Topsy Turvy. Topsy Turvy.

I mean, look, whatever. I guess it's just a sign of Disney fatigue that it doesn't get nominated. Because they used to get like three nominations per category. 100%. In those early 90s? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They would write.

They'd get the ballad, the funny song, and the banger. You know, all three. So now we've got... The winner that year was You Must Love Me from Evita, which is sort of a stinker. Okay. But it was kind of like Andrew Lloyd Webber, fucking Madonna, you know, whatever.

I remember Andrew Lloyd Webber got on stage and said, I'm glad the English patient didn't have a song. And when I was 10, I thought that was funny. Because the English patient was cleaning up. Still funny. Then you have... It's just ballad central okay is uh okay wait uh fuck is this the year with the one fine day song correct and you know why you know i remember this right for the

first time in one fine day what what i was just singing for the first time in forever from frozen in ballad yeah which is not what the the song is called for the first time in forever From Frozen in ballad Which is not what the song is called For the first time Do you want to build a snowman Tell me Remember I forget who performs it live on stage You talked about this on the podcast but I don't remember what it is

Whoever performs it It was that they had Luke and Leia as an example of romance They do a montage of the greatest movie couples and they show like Bogie and Bacall or Casablanca or whatever, right? They're like love story and all these things the way we were. And then they show Luke and Leia

smiling at each other at the end of Star Wars. And the special edition re-release had just happened. It was like burning up the box office. And it was like collective amnesia. Because maybe, I mean, of the jedi had not yet been re-released or whatever i don't know it was very odd it was very odd i think about that all the time okay so one fine day of yida there's no english patient song no but you do have i finally found someone from the mirror has two faces so that's barbara sure is there a preacher

that song was like that no but the barbara song was written by Barbara Streisand, Marvin Hamblish, and Brian Adams. They all came together. Wow. Their rings glowed. Yeah. Like their powers combined. For the first time from One Fine Day, which is a James Newton Howard song

that was performed by Kenny Loggins. Okay. Because You Loved Me from Up Close and Personal. Oh, sure. It's a Diane Warren song That's a Celine Dion Bang So fucking good Because you love me

But that's like peak Diane Warren You were my strength When I was weak We sung that middle school chorus When I couldn't speak You were my eyes That should have won Because Diane Orens never won

The way you love me But it's in such a nothing movie Like the Robert Redford And then this actually should have won That Thing You Do Which is so good By Adam Slicinger May he rest in peace

That song is so fun. The best fake songwriter of all time. And the movie hinges. That song needs to be a disposable but really catchy pop hit. And that song has lasted. Yeah. You know what? I will say, though, do you remember when Lose Yourself won and people were astounded?

Because it was just like, no, it's an Oscar type of song wins. It doesn't matter if the song is good. It doesn't matter if it was a hit. Like Ghostbusters will never win the Oscar. Shaft was seen as a surprise when that won, but it always goes to the ballad by the pre-established insider in Hollywood. Well, also Big Facts Machine was against Ghostbusters.

They didn't want people calling. I don't know. I'm just saying. Since that, there's been the run of like three six mafia jai ho winning like a lot of winners that are like that's just the best song in a movie this year rather than the song that feels most like an oscar winner you were my strength when i was weak uh the thing you do should have won yeah it's wild that 90s got nominated five certifiable bangers

I love them all Emma do you remember when you first saw this film James and the Giant Peach James and the Giant Peach I do remember when I first saw this movie I saw it

we didn't have it but you won't tell us yeah no that's the secret Patreon paywall answer I was at

one of my childhood friends homes and I don't remember which one because it would have had to be them because we did not have this movie at my house. And I think it was the first time I had ever seen a stop motion movie. Plausible. If you hadn't seen Nightmare, I don't know what other stop motion would have crossed your path. And I don't think I knew what to make of it. I mean, I liked it. Did you know the book? Had you read the book?

Not at that point. I was really young. I was probably like five. But yeah. Yeah. I saw this film in theaters. Yeah, same. It was 1996.

Yeah. I was 10 years old. I was seven. I loved the book James and the Giant Peach. Same. It was announced that there was 10 years old i was seven i loved the book james and the giant peach same it was announced that there was a filmed adaptation of it henry selleck randy newman by the guy who did nightmare before christmas i was like i'm there i saw it at the barbican yeah in london interesting go on uh which might circle back to that later which is where i saw we're gonna have a conversation about that uh which is where i saw most movies

back then because the barbican was very good at like... They had like a kid's day or... I don't know. Okay. And I thought it was great. Filed away my thumbs up review of it and weirdly just never revisited it. Yeah.

I don't know. I think I never watched it again. So I'll say this. I think I was 10. You know, it's like a certain point I'm getting... Yeah. No, I'll say this. A, big Roald Dahl household.

Same. So we had read this book. We, big Roald Dahl household. Same. So we had read this book. We had read all the books we were deep in. B, I'm a big animation nerd. I'm already invested in the idea of who Henry Selick is, Tim Burton's name

being attached to this movie, all of that. Another big element for me is that all the characters I know from this movie is Lane Smith. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who at this point is fucking killing the

game with John Sieska is doing the Stinky Cheese Man. Hell yeah. Three Little Wolves Untold Story. I fucking Those books are unbelievable. They're so good. I was thinking this watching the movie last night. Fucking, you were talking about like your daughter's favorite

books. Yeah, Brown by Brown, what are you seeing? Right. Which is a little dramatically inert. How excited are you going to be when you get to read Stinky Cheese Man? Shit that's fucking got some juice to it. Well, the whole thing with Stinky Cheese Man was it was like, Jack and the Beanstalk, what a load of crap. And you were like, can he say that? Red Riding Hood sucks.

And you're like, oh my God. But then they are actually wonderfully drawn and clever and funny. Lance Smith has this incredible design style. He also did the Time Warp Trio. So he's a big figure in my life at this point. But most importantly, the big thing is, my brother's name is James. This movie was fucking huge in our household for that reason. A, we read the book early because it was like james there

was just a movie with james in it it was like we're there i cannot tell you how much this seemed to resonate okay and it's like his name is james it's a very common name it's not like i found a movie with griffin in the title right but he was just like that's my movie we saw in theaters we loved it we had the soundtrack we listened to it all the time i mean perfect film for kids too it's short yeah it's simple. It looks really cool. It's got animals in it. But this movie was big for me, yeah. And it apparently has the best soundtrack of all time.

Yeah, it's got the five best songs ever written for a movie. But yeah, I still... I'll watch this movie every couple of years, just to test it, just to check. Keep the channel open. I love it. Yeah, I think it's an incredible technical achievement obviously but i also think this film is uh it's it's it's interesting in a lot of ways it is like

an interesting sort of semi-first check bounce for him um yes and i think for a lot of people this movie is like too dark and unpleasant. Huh. Interesting. That's why we didn't have it at our house. You read the reviews from the time. It was too nasty. My parents were probably just like, absolutely not. No, this is creepy. But I think in a certain way, he's the only person to adapt Roald Dahl and get that totally right.

Yeah. But I would say he still is chilling it out a little bit. Because the thing in the Roald Dahl book, I've read a million times Was one of my favorites I read them all a lot Is that like the craziest part Is when the peach rolls over Mrs. Spike and Mrs. And Sponge and Spiker

And they're like bump And they're like hell yeah she's dead And then there's another bump and they're like her too Two dead bodies And then we just move on And at the time I was just like god damn they're like her two dead bodies yes and then it's just we just move on yeah and i was at the time i was just like god damn they're dead but they're so mean and grotesque looking i was cheering for it but in this movie they live you read reviews from the time that this movie came

out and people are like the first 20 minutes of this film are so repellent i cannot believe anyone would show this to children well because i guess it is the Roald Dahl thing of like, he does love freaks. Right. But they're like mean freaks. This is so grotesque and mean. Right. It is torturous. That's funny.

Don't remember feeling that way. I guess. No, I was so into it, but it does. It's the fairy tale thing. Like it does. It feels like Grimm's fairy tales. It feels like all the Roald Dahl books where it's like, you start from a place of real sorrow,

real ugliness. There's something you have to escape. When did you first read the book? What do you think of Roald Dahl? I was 100% Hondo person. Hate his books, love his personal opinions. I don't really think he has said anything or done anything wrong.

No, whatever. The woke mafia has come for him now. Look, he's one of my favorite anti-Semites. If I have to rate them as someone who just... Sure, like, point a gun at me.

Come on, do you like a few? I'm like, yeah. One of my favorite guys who would hate me by my birth. Right. I feel like, because James and the Giant Peach

is his first real book. Yeah. Like, he'd written a couple before that, but that is his hit that I established. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory follows that. Because Stefanski, you were pulling up his first real book. Yeah. Like he'd written a couple before that, but that is his hit. Right. That established, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

follows that. Because Stefanski, you were pulling up the illustrations from the original book and I forgot that this is one of the ones before his, what's his usual guy's name?

Quentin Blake. Quentin Blake, Quentin Blake. Quentin Blake. Yes. It's great. I love that guy. Yeah.

Also very grotesque. Yeah. A king. He's got a great, inimitable style. A perfect fit. Right. This is before that. It's illustrated by someone else.

Nancy Burkert. The illustrations you showed us are a terrible fit for this book. They are really, I mean, well. And I remembered, like when you showed me, I was like, right. I remember looking at that. The first image is really frightening, which is of James holding a cat. And you see his head. His head is very skull-like and his eyes are completely black.

I don't know if this is just the transfer of this into a PDF. I think he looks like the Renesmee robot that was cut out of Twilight. He did eventually draw an edition. Which looks cool. Had that edition. You know, looks nice. Had that edition. You know, looks nice. But it is not his OG. The Quimbley fit was just

such a good, his style was such a good fit for Roald Dahl that I think retroactively they went back and they were like, you have to convert every one of these books.

You are the visualization of Roald Dahl. I wonder what his first was where he actually. Right. Because when I'm reading these in the 90s, the Quentin Blake versions

are the versions that are in widest circulation at that point. I'm reading these in the 90s, the Quentin Blake versions are the versions that are in widest circulation at that point. Yeah. I definitely didn't have the edition with these illustrations in it that I'm looking at now.

I think I did. Okay, wait. I'm trying to find... Okay, the first book he worked on with him was The Enormous Crocodile in 1978. Oh, sure.

A minor work. A minor work. And then Uncle Oswald and then The Twits. Oh, The Twits. I love The Twits. I love The Twits so much. The Twits is...

That's grotesque. That's horrifying. Truly grotesque. Yes. Right? I remember that's the one where Dahl... That's like...

Fuck. What's like a good filmic example of this? Like, you know, Von Trier doing Antichrist or something where he's just like, there's nothing for... There's no fun in this one.

It's like I spit on your grave. Yes. It's like it's just two disgusting freaks at war. There's no sympathetic characters entering this narrative usually the main character would be the child who is the ward of the twits and at some point the child escapes them and they get their comeuppance and so the twits is just them being miserable to each other and there's no child well they get the animals get them in the end right yes i was looking this up because i was thinking i was you know pretty probably pretty sure that the books would come up at some point.

Yes. And I was obsessed with this book. I think because I had never ever read anything like this. The Twits. They keep on trying to adapt the Twits. I know John Cleese was trying to do it for a long time, and then he chose to become a Twit. He is truly a Twit, yes.

Right. But then even like a year or two ago I got an email about a twits animated voiceover audition which I think now got cancelled in the recent wave

of Netflix animation cancellations but Netflix bought the Roald Dahl library. Right. And is now all in on that.

The twits is legit 87 pages long. Yes. It's in and it's out. Yes. After that George's Marvelous it's out yes um after that george's marvelous marvelous medicine okay and then that late run of like dolls kind of like masterpieces bfg witches matilda like you know when does he do great glass elevator that's earlier that's before okay that book is absolutely bananas that book doesn't make a single lick of sense. It's so funny

that Wonka is so huge and that everyone's like, we can remake it. We can do it on Broadway. Keep doing Chocolate Factory. Chocolate Factory. We can do a prequel. Right, prequel, fine.

Musical, whatever. We are never going in that fucking elevator. No, he didn't. He didn't go in any elevators. Nope. Nope. He didn't go to space.

He didn't mean any vermicious nids. And both the Burton and the Mel Stewart And in the Great Glass Elevator And there has never been a discussion about continuing Either of those stories Yes So that is when Blake entered the picture

In the middle But then he eventually went back and he did The early ones Peach, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory The Magic Finger Fantastic Mr. Fox Great Glass Elevator Danny the Champion of the World The early ones, it goes Peach, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, The Magic Finger. This is cute. Yeah. Fantastic Mr. Fox, Great Glass Elevator, Danny the Champion of the World, which was a huge one for me. I was obsessed with that book as a kid.

What about Boy? When does Boy come out? Well, okay. So Boy, I've got to switch over to a different one. His memoir? Which I was also obsessed with. Boy was amazing. That's 84.

So that's pretty late. Yeah. That's in between Witches and The Giraffe and the Pellion. It is. That's another one I love. Giraffe.'s wild how how hot he was at the end uh he that's the thing he had kind of a late in life like masterpiece uh but uh boy i was obsessed with um all the boarding school stuff and like i don't know why would you relate to that i didn't go to boarding school i think i think i just found boarding school to be...

It's the Harry Potter thing, right? It's so enchanting to imagine going to some... Even though in Boy, it was fucking tough. It was hard to go to boarding school. The fucking Matilda movie, by the way. Which one? The new Matilda musical film. On Netflix, right?

Right, which is being released theatrically everywhere else. I just found out. Right. Right. Which is being released theatrically everywhere else. I just found out. Yeah. It's like a Sony film that Netflix only bought in the States. Sorry. It just sucks.

Yeah. It's like going wide in the UK I think this week when we're recording and it will come out on Netflix six weeks from now and be talked about for five minutes.

I completely forgot about those. Yeah, I mean, Netflix emailed me being like, hey, are you going to London Film Festival? And I was like, no, what? I'm not. And they were like, we have Matilda there. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, let me know when I can watch that, I guess.

I didn't know you had that. It's a wide theatrical release there. It got good reviews. Yeah, Netflix has bought into the Roald Dahl library, which is funny because the majority of the Roald Dahl library, which is funny because the majority of the Roald Dahl adaptations have struggled. He's tough to do. He's very tough to do.

And yet, I like most of the movies. I do as well. I love The Witches, the rogue movie. Yes. And I love this Max movie. One of his best. I really like the DeVito Matilda. Incredible. All of these movies are slightly sanded down from the books yeah they always you know like the way the rogue

movie is absolute freak show ship but then has the happy ending we both like burton blanca more than most yeah although i'm not like yeah whatever it's a that's a mixed bag the fantastic mr fox is Mixed bag. Fantastic Mr. Fox is lovely. Yes. The Wes Anderson. Yeah. BFG, you know. I could take or leave that one. B. Emma. F. Lan.

G. Yep. Actually, I don't think I ever saw it. The Spielberg BFG? BFG, no. I never saw them. Do you remember falling into a deep sleep in a movie theater once? Because that might have been when you saw it. You might have watched it every night. I did. dolls do you like more doll movies do you like if

any oh i mean i was just gonna say i did a school project on the bfg because everyone was like you have to do it because you're tall oh emma cursed being tall she was a tall child tall girl she's netflix's tall netflix bought your rights you were once netflix's tall girl to a halloween party i was a suggestion i won't hurt credit for that. You did that. You were like, I need a last minute costume. And I was like, bitch, just print out Netflix on a piece of paper hanging around your neck. You're Netflix's tall girl. You did it.

This joke is good for two weeks. You really timed out on the window on that one. Some people did get it. I didn't have to explain it to every single person at the party. Did they make like three of those tall girl they did two they made a sequel i did not watch the second one sorry did you you did watch the first one though and it was she was like some people are normal not me i'm tall i i wrote a thing about it which was basically like this movie drove me crazy because

she's like bullied for being tall but what happens to you when you're a tall girl is that everyone's like, oh, I wish I was tall. And meanwhile, you're like in hell. Right. It's not like people are like, hey, nice job being tall over there. I don't bully a tall person. You can't.

You've got long legs. Do you have to duck to get through a doorway? I was just jealous. I was never mean to a tall person. I mean, I, you know, I of course believe that tall lives matter. Thank you. Thank you very much. Stance.

I mean, pants shopping. Oh my God. Don't even get me started. I mean, I could do a whole, this blank check length episode. Well, hold on. Let's save that for a spinoff show. We don't want to give that away for free. It's a podcast.

Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. David, where did you pluck that name from? BFG is tall. It's funny. Check to make sure that isn't copyright. The big friendly giant is tall, but he's better known for being big.

He's not the tall friendly giant. No, he's not the TFG. Even though he is tall. He's tall better known for being big. He's not the tall friendly John. No, he's not the TFG. Even though he is tall. He's tall and he is slender. Okay, unfortunately there is a tall podcast. Is there really? They're always one step ahead. Maybe we can buy them out. Off the cuff ramblings from a copywriter

in Eastern Europe. That sounds juicy as fuck. Is the guy's name tall uh he's the tall writer genre is marketing he must have been so thrilled he must have been ecstatic it's so quick to jump on that um but yes this book was very big in my household because we loved ralph doll and j James liked hearing his own name. And then we saw the movie and we were amped. And this is one of those movies

when I got really into box office a couple years later and box office mojo existed and I could scan through the history of every weekend and whatever. But I was like, that movie was a huge hit, right? You were like Emma with Treasure Planet. Truly. $100 million opening weekend, right?

I thought everyone knew these songs. Everyone saw it, right, yeah. Right, they were like under100 million opening weekend, right? I thought everyone knew these songs. Everyone saw it. Right, yeah. Right. They were like under the sea level earworms. Right. I'm flummoxed by the fact that the three of you

don't care for the music. I don't know. Oh, I like the music. Yeah, Emma likes the music. She's with you. Sure. That's not live by me. Yeah.

Da-da-da-da-da. Love it. I love it. I think all these songs are great. But yes, I thought this movie was a bigger hit. I guess I must have known at some point well they stopped letting henry sellick do this right i mean it is i feel like a few years later this would have been a bigger hit i think

it is a good sign of like there actually was only so much space for a movie this odd in the kids zone in the 90s nightmare did better than better than this. Yeah. But even Nightmare was not like some colossal sensation initially. I think there are two things going on, right? One, this is coming out

like three years, even a little bit less, after Nightmare. Yeah. So Nightmare has come out sort of like was an okay hit, but the second wave

of like Nightmare Mania has not fully taken off yet. That was like late 90s, right? Where Corpse Bride did bizarrely well for how nothing that movie is. Do you like Corpse Bride? I do. Do you love it? No. It's fine. It's fine.

It's fine. It looks beautiful. It was a big hit because at that point it was like 10-15 years out from Nightmare and people were like, yeah, we should have fucking been there when Nightmare came out. I saw Corpse Bride in college and me and my friends

were all exactly like, well, it's fucking Nightmare 2, this thing. Yeah, that's why we got to see it. I even think Peach like coming out in like 98 might have been picking up a little bit more of that heat.

The other thing is this comes out fucking three, four months after Toy Story. Yeah. There is that thing where it's like disney renaissance is going huge then they're like we should branch out and do other stuff let's make a stop motion film let's make a cgi film and nightmare does okay and toy story is a phenomenon right and at the same time the disney renaissance movies are starting to peter out a little bit right so they're just all in on Pixar.

If you're them, if you're Eisner especially, you're like, why are we going to make a third one of these? They take forever and they seem a little niche. Whereas we've cracked the code with Pixar. It makes sense. And it's like, look, it's not like CGI is easy. No.

But stop motion is so involved and so complicated. And this movie, like, you can feel the limitation. Like, you can feel like them trying to save money everywhere. Right? Like, in all the live. The sets are quite small.

There's 40 minutes of stop motion. That is the thing that's really clever about this movie. It is. Because to a certain degree, I was surprised that he was able to get a film out in two and a half years after nightmare right just because usually animation with development cycle everything is four years and this is the most laborious process and the answer is he essentially had to make a 40 minute short film and then do live action around it i forgot how much of this movie is live action yeah i like i was kind of waiting for the beginning part to end. I was like, all right, I guess I gotta get into that.

It's 20 full minutes. It's quite long. Yeah. And I had forgotten that there was a kid in this movie. Yeah. I'd really forgotten everything about this movie. I remember there was a giant peach. Sure.

So give me some credit. Partial credit. We can dig into the dossier, but the genesis of this movie is really Joe Ranft, who we talked about a lot in the Nightmare episode and was just a sort of legend of 90s animation

across the Pixar films, the Disney animated films, and the stop-motion Salek films, among others. He's just sort of like, he was the best animation story artist of his generation, who everyone thought

was going to eventually become a great director. He was also the voice of Heimlich. The voice of Heimlich. Voice of... I'm forgetting some of the other characters. Voice of Wheezy, the penguin. Toy Story 2. I believe he's the clown in one of my favorite movies of all time

when I was a little kid, The Brave Little Toaster. Yes. Which is a movie he worked on. That was a big... He was a big guy behind Brave Little Toaster. That movie's fucked up. Yeah, that movie's fucked up a big guy behind Brave Little Toaster That movie's fucked up Yeah that movie's fucked up You've seen Brave Little Toaster?

Oh yeah Yeah I think around Brave Little Toaster time One of the scariest movies I've ever seen Scary Around Brave Little Toaster time He goes to Disney and says I think there's good movie potential

In James the Giant Peach Yeah which like No shit buddy This is what's so weird to me That they had to sell people on like Hey that bestseller from the most famous children's author who ever lived i think we should make a movie of it used to be so hard to convince studios to make movies based on intellectual property but i feel like at disney

also it was like is it a thousand year old fairy tale right like because it's like if i say cinderella everyone on earth has heard of cinderella right james the giant peach like what did it sell 100 million copies i don't know flash in the pan that fad might be over by the time the movie hits it truly it felt like even like batman they're like batman's only been around for 60 years he might not last by the time we get that film in multiplexes uh but joe ramped is the one who pushes this really hard. Roald Dahl. Okay. Let me give you some dots. I hated you. I thought they were weird.

I say this because I'm Jewish. Just look it up, guys. And I hate that he would have hated me. He's a best-selling author. He's a relatively successful screenwriter. He wrote You Only Live Twice. He wrote a bunch of Hitchcock Presents episodes, I think.

Does he get a credit on the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? Or the Wonka movie? You mean the Gene Wilder? Yes. He gets a screenplay credit on it, although I think he largely did not like that movie and, of course, famously wanted Spike Milligan, who is a legendary British comedian, he largely did not like that movie. And of course, famously wanted Spike Milligan. Yes.

Who is like a legendary British comedian, but was not exactly like the kind of Hollywood A-lister. No, he wanted it nastier. I mean, and people still, so much of that movie's legacy is, wow, Gene Wilder is so much darker in that movie and scarier than I thought, than I remembered. Have you ever seen that clip of Spike Milligan getting like a message from Prince Charles?

It's in like one, have you heard? You know who Spike Milligan is like a message from Prince Charles No Have you heard of Spike Milligan He's a very famous old British comedian And Prince Charles loved him And so it's one of these And he was comedy partners with Dudley Moore Yes he was part of the goons Not Dudley Moore What's it called Peter Sellers

Right the goon show Yeah the goon show So it's Peter Sellers and Harry Seacham um and so it's one of these old fucking salutes to spike milligan things it's in the 90s he's old as shit sure and jonathan ross is like and spike we've got a message for you from you know the prince of wales himself and he starts reading this letter that the prince of wales sent in that's like i always used to love listening to you on the wireless. You're so funny.

And Spike Milligan goes, oh, that groveling bastard. And everyone loses their minds. Wow. It's so funny. Wow. The whole British audience is clearly just like melting. And Jonathan Ross is like,

I don't know what to do. I'm literally reading something like the Royal Seal. That's incredible. It's so fucking good. Anyway, Google that if you ever want to watch something funny but anyway roald dahl had just not been adapted for film right well apart from willie wonka yeah yeah i guess the witches yeah but apart from that it's mostly like it's there's like that danny champion of the world tv sure movie there's that bfg tv movie but yeah Champion of the World TV movie. There's that BFG TV movie. But yeah, there is The Witches.

I forgot what The Witches is. But that's it. Yeah. And Joe Ranft, as you say, was championing this within Disney, but Disney thought it was too weird. Yeah. And it's a very, it's a very picaresque narrative. There's not an obvious movie shape to it.

This is true. And one might say that about the film. I like the solution they came up with. Sure. But sure. Yes.

It's disconnected. Here's Selick. It's episodic. It's disconnected. It's got a dreamlike quality. Disney just thought it was too weird. Yeah.

I don't... I think that's so dumb. Listen to this, Emma. I'm listening. There's a giant peach. Yeah. A boy goes inside it. Yeah.

There's a bunch of magic animals in it. Yeah. The peach rolls around and they have adventures. That's right. I'm just like, Emma. I'm listening. There's a giant peach. Yeah. A boy goes inside it. Yeah. There's a bunch of magic animals in it. Yeah. The peach rolls around and they have adventures. That's right. I'm just like, sold. Sounds good. He's a sad boy with mean aunts and he meets nice friends who are big bugs. You know, it's like-

They travel. It'd be one thing if he goes into a peach and who's in there and it's like- This is all I want. Yeah. Famous British philosophers. I'd be like, okay, tough sell. It's like, no, it's magic bugs. Yeah.

Cool. And all of them have like a bit. Each of them has a very clearly defined... Much like actual bugs. And then like, yeah, so Selick, you know, has made Nightmare, so he's got a proof of concept here, right? But at this point, basically

the thing has just sort of kicked around Disney for like five or so years, never really gaining traction. At some point they hired someone to write a screenplay and they weren't sure if they were going to do it hand-drawn or live action, I think. Yes. And like, I'm sure there's a hand-drawn version of this movie that's cool as well.

But it does make sense for stop motion. Bugs makes sense for stop motion. I love the bugs in stop motion. You love the bugs? I love them. You love the bugs? Look, we're going to this is going to be 30 minutes of the episode. We're getting to this.

We've got to talk about the bugs. That's all I'm waiting for. I'm just sitting here waiting for you guys to be done with this. But they go through even at some point they go the whole thing is stop motion.

It's live action all the way. It's live action only the bugs are stop motion. He's live action inside the peach. They finally get to the solution of

the easiest and cheapest way to make this movie is it's 40 solid minutes of stop motion he's live action inside the peach they finally get to the solution of the easiest and cheapest way to make this movie is it's 40 solid minutes of stop motion in the middle the boy has to become stop motion you do live action bookends but another thing for selick i think is like he doesn't want his studio to close up yes they're they're wrapping on nightmare and he's just like i need something yes i need to pitch something so that we're just continuing on with work and we're continuing to get everyone together. Did you read Bilga's Lilo and Stitch piece that came out this week? That was excellent for Vulture.

If people want to carbon date when this episode was reported. Doing oral histories of early 2000s underrated Disney movies. Bilga has the exact same movies that I do. But they're saying in that piece that like the magic sauce of that movie was that it was the brief period of time where they set up a satellite animation studio in Florida. And they largely did that so that there would be a functioning animation studio that Disney World attendees could see and feel like they were visiting where the movies were made. But the main movies were still getting made in Hollywood. And some of the smaller projects got punted to Florida. And that was like the last Florida project, basically, before they shut it down.

And they're talking to a lot of the artists who worked on the movie and like where it came out of and the sense of collaboration, camaraderie, all this sort of stuff and asking, like, will there ever be a hand-drawn movie like this? And they're like, the problem is, like, at that point, that movie's coming out of people who've been working together for 10 years. There was, like, a sensibility. There was a studio. It's like a cast iron pan that's been seasoned, you know?

And they're like, Netflix can invest in one of these movies, but the way you get to Lilo and Stitch is it's the fifth one you make. Right, you keep generating. And it's the Pixar thing, too. And I think, you know, it becomes a simple business proposition as much as Selick says, please don't shut down my studio. To Disney, it's like, you've put the money into building this thing.

It's kind of a waste if you only have those costs amorized across one film. It's cheaper now that you've hired the people, you've rented the studios, you've built the equipment to keep this going, especially if the hope is, and I think this is that period where it's like, we gotta find a new satellite

studio, we gotta find another branch of animation, Pixar ends up being it, but could we just have them working continuously and giving us a new stop-motion film every three years? The other thing, of course, that Selick has going for him is that Tim Burton is still involved. He's interested in the doll book. Slapping his name.

Right. So, Selleck is hoping the exact same thing will happen where, because Burton's involved, Disney won't mess with him. Burton will be the force field because Disney wants to be

in the Burton business. Yes. And so, maybe that will happen. Now, what ended up happening was Burton was not really involved in this movie at all

and Selleck felt like, you know, ignored by him. It was truly a name slap. Right. And nothing past that point. Right. And I think Disney was starting to count by him. It was truly a name slap. Right. And nothing past that point. Right. And I think Disney was starting to count the beans.

There was a Selleck interview he did just recently talking about Wendell Wilde, but also he gets into Shadow King. I mean, stuff we'll talk about in future episodes. But was saying, you know, the thing with stop motion is it's expensive, but it's actually, on average, less expensive than a lot of other forms of animation,

partially because they keep the scale of them down. Right. But he's like, the whole thing is they end up costing less than most of the other animated films, and they just basically make back their budget when they come out, but they remain profitable for a long time. They have a long

tail, and you need to sort of have a big picture vision of them. Because I even think the Laika films have performed similarly. Coraline's the only one that was like a proper hit when it came out. But I think all those films have done well over the years. They do well. So I think they're just like, will you give us $40 million to make another one of these? That's half or a third of what your other animated films cost.

Steven Spielberg and Danny DeVito are trying to get the rights to James and one of these. That's half or a third of what your other animated films cost. Steven Spielberg and Danny DeVito are trying to get the rights to James and the Giant Peach. They get defended off by Selick, and of course, DeVito goes on to do Matilda instead. Right. And, I mean, Spielberg

ends up doing BFG 20 years later, but had wanted to do it for so long. He ends up doing what? The BF... The BFJ! Thank you. So, basically, Burton, though, helps Selleck get this and then fucks off. Yeah.

Selleck's quote. Tim helped set up the film, and after that had nothing more to do with it. He took a huge amount of money, gave me no protection. I don't think he even read the script. Tim's not the reading kind of guy. He usually watches some old Mexican horror films or Cur curse of the Bigfoot and gets inspired by that. So it just like it starts off with him being like, look, he helped me get in. He's like, look, the fucker can't even read.

He's just watching garbage on television. I will. I will say this. You know, as we do. Henry Selick's a prickly fella. As we do this miniseries. He's a bit of a prickly peach. Well, yes.

As we do this miniseries and we dig into why bit of a prickly peach. Well, yes. As we do this mini-series and we dig into why there have been such long gaps in Henry Selleck's career, the big thing I keep on hearing from people, people who want to tell me things off mic

without citing them directly, is the man just has zero bedside manner whatsoever. Not much of a filter. It's the number one thing I hear. It's not like, oh, secretly there's

this horrible thing about him that's never spoken. it's not like oh secretly there's this horrible thing about him that's never spoken there's not like some horrible like traumatic monstrous thing it's like the guy truly only knows how to speak in terms of art and is not someone who knows how to deal with people in a friendly way whatsoever is very blunt about everything it's what you said we were talking about like the animators are either cartoon, living cartoon characters. Yes. Or they are these weird clockwork people

who are, like, not very good at interacting socially. Right. And, like, I think someone like Pete Docter is like that. Like Clockwork Man? No,

is quiet, like, internalized. Yes, Clockwork Man. Yes. But in a way that is clearly, like, sweet, attentive, sensitive.

Right, no one's, he's not abrasive. You have to pull it out. And someone like Lasseter is more human cartoon. Big cartoon, right. Right. Selick is, like, a quiet, intense man. He's like the Stanley Kubrick of animation. He looks like a Selick puppet.

He does. He's this, like, thin, wizened guy with a beard. Now he's got this very long goatee. Yeah. Yeah. Just this thin wizened guy with a beard. Now he's got this very long goatee. Yeah. So,

Selick, basically, as you say, they have this idea of like, we're going to do sort of live action around the stop motion, but the live action can have this very stylized set. Yes. So it kind of preps you for the stop motion. Like you're kind of already in the sort of visual head space.

This is wildly stylized live action. It's like, it's, yes, it's very strange and expressionistic, which is good.

Once again, it is the only movie to me, the live action segment. I think it would suck if it was like set in a fucking regular ass neighborhood

and then he goes in the peach and all that shit's happening. It's better this way. The live action section of this movie, for me, is the only

doll adaptation that looks like doll to me. Which isn't to say it looks like Quentin Blake. It looks like how the books feel in your mind's eye when you're reading them. More successfully for me than any other doll adaptation. And I think the stop-motion stuff is good as well, but

because it's Lane Smith and his design sensibility becomes a slightly different artist. Is this the best doll adaptation? I think there's an argument that it might be. Is it? Emma? I think, I would say that. Would you take it over the Gene Wilder?

I mean, you like Gene Wilder less than I do. Right. I like that movie a lot. But I think in terms of just actually putting Roald Dahl's spirit on screen. I'm not even a huge Wes Anderson person. I might take Fantastic Mr. Fox. I prefer this to Fantastic Mr. Fox.

He prefers it. But I think I rank Fantastic Mr. Fox lower in the Wes canon than a lot of people. I don't know. There's an argument. That's another one. Selleck was going to direct Mr. Fox with Wes.

And it became a Life's Too Short thing. Yeah. For who? Wes. Sort of a Justin Lin, Vin Diesel kind of situation. Yeah, I just can't do this again. There was some notion of the kid always being

live action. Right. Yes. And I like this quote from David Vogel, who's head of production at Disney, where he's like, the little boy would have to act the entire second act of the movie by himself. He would never have animated characters there. He would just be making believe.

And it wasn't a matter of money. It was that you don't do that to an eight-year-old. Yeah. Which is interesting. It's just like, yeah, that's just going to be too much of a nightmare for everybody. And I'll say, a thing I like about this movie, the kid they picked very much does not feel like an actor to me

and i don't think he ever acted again no he feels like a real kid paul terry like his performance feels like a kid playing pretend like to entertain his parents at dinner uh yeah he's cute and i i yeah i got no beef with him i like him a lot I think it would have been incredibly difficult for him to do that. It also works. It's like the kind of movie logic thing I love. I love how unexplained it is. But it's like he starts crawling through the peach. Little glow sparks fly around him.

His head gets bigger. His head get big. Yeah. Why does he transform? I don't know. Because he's in the peach now. Yeah, peach is this now Yeah

I was kind of expecting a little bit of explanation there But they were just like you're different too Yeah you're different too It's sort of Wizard of Oz rules but it transforms him as well You're going to a different place and everything's going to be different now It's the gator tongues It's the gator it's the crocodile tongues Whatever you croc tongue gator tongue

Well Ben's out He's mad at the movie all of a sudden Come on I'd crunch down on some It's a crocodile tongue. Whatever. You croc tongue, gator tongue. Ben's out. This was absolutely... He's mad at the movie all of a sudden. Come on. I'd crunch down on some glowing tongues. What would you hope would happen to you? Turn into a sick-ass bug. Which bug would you be?

Asked and answered. Yeah, what's your bug? What's your bug avatar? Well, because I I like of course Centipede He's got an attitude You know He's a wise guy

But I don't know Body wise Not which one of these characters Like if you could be any bug In the animal kingdom Oh shit We're going We're going

Dang Um Fucking Praying mantis I always think of them as classy Because they're kind of like It's Jonathan Harris in A Bug's Life Manny the Magnificent

He's funny He's really good Emma, bug? I was thinking about this Emma, you don't have a lot of loaded answer for this Okay I was actually thinking about this because i figured we'd talk about this and i think i want to be a dragonfly wow because they're

fucking cool they whenever you see a dragonfly you're like how does this exist yeah they seem very powerful like if i was a little bug and one of those things showed up i would not want to deal with it they have like by some metric they have like the highest catch rate like predator catch rate of any creature on the planet they're unfair they're like helicopters yeah and that's a good answer vietnam shit they're just swooping yeah well what bug are you gonna be i don't know i don't know i was just in an airbnb last Humblebrag? Thank you You were waiting for it but I didn't think I was gonna do it Okay fine well you didn't have to do it we can cut it out if you want No keep it in a double

Alex actually does that I can't say it anymore Humblebrag? And this Airbnb had which I've encountered once before in my life A ladybug infestation Oh yeah Where there's just hundreds of them and it's the most benign because they're harmless. They don't do anything.

But it was just crazy to see them all. Fucking ladybugs. Yeah. I mean, ladybug was the answer that popped into my head first. They're cool. I don't know how much it is I like the fucking Francis in Bugs Life. I mean, one of Dennis Leary's finest performances. It's way up there.

There's a ladybug in this movie. I know. She rules. She's cool. Yeah. I don't know what bugs performances. It's way up there. There's a ladybug in this movie. I know, she rules. She's cool. Yeah. I don't know what bug she rules. I like all these characters. Yeah, because worms are kind of cool, too.

Worms are cool. They eat dirt. Yeah. They're slimy. Yeah. You can cut them in half, and then they multiply. There's a great joke, actually, about worms.

Yeah. I know what you're talking about. He's, like, talking about how his cousin was attacked. Oh, no. He know what you're talking about. He's like talking about how his cousin was attacked. Oh, no. He had like a... His brother. He had a brother

and now he has two half-brothers. Funny. Good. That actually is... This movie has some really good one-liners. He's committing pesticide is funny.

That's pretty funny. I want to get into plot of this because I want to dig into these characters. I mean, we've basically said everything we need to say about the set up. The only other interesting guy I want to mention into plot of this because I want to dig into these characters I mean we've basically said everything we need to say about the set up of this movie the only other interesting thing I want to mention is that Dennis Potter

who's a very famous British writer who wrote Pennies from Heaven the original Pennies from Heaven mini series and all that right he wrote the first draft and like totally swerved away from the book like it's set in World War II James' parents died in the Blitz not eaten by a rhinoceros

was that pre-Selec, just when Disney was internally developing this without knowing what to do with it? Because I think Selec comes on once they have the Kirkpatrick draft. Yeah, I think this script may have existed and Selec was like, this is very interesting,

but we can't do this. We need to, you know. And the Dahl estate had script approval and was like, no, no. Because Kerry Kirkpatrick's the main writer on this, who was a huge Disney story guy. Yeah, and roberts who had written um the lion king right and kirkpatrick later writes chicken run and then becomes a in-house dream and i do want to quote michael eisner chairman of disney of course hello his opinion on this project quote who wants to see

a film about a boy and a bunch of bugs? We can't spend $30 million on this. Two thumbs from Emma Stefanski. Way up in the air. I do. But I do feel like what they eventually arrive on is a pretty faithful, as faithful as you can be, apart from the murder of the ants. Sure.

You know, adaptation, right? That's really trying to contain most of the events of this book in some way yeah and even if you don't crush the ants at the beginning i think you keep them alive to give them a greater comeuppance later in the film like it doesn't feel like they're pulling a punch in that way as much you know um but yes they do land on the structure that is like the movie alternates between musical numbers and action set pieces for the whole middle section. Right. Because it's one of these things where it's like,

okay, they're here, they have to get to New York, how do you kill time in between those two events? That was my favorite thing about the book. It ended in my neighborhood. Yeah. It was cool.

It just, he ends up in Central Park and he's like, I live here now in a peach pit. I think I saw... I'm gonna go get H&H. Right? Yeah. Not open on Sundays. Go to Barney Greengrass. Yeah. I think I saw... I'm going to go get H&H. Right? Yeah. Not open on Sundays.

Go to Barney Greengrass. Yeah. I think I saw someone on the Reddit propose that this might be the most New York movie we've covered, which there is a sideways argument for that. It gets very New York movies. That's the thing. It gets so... Because there's a cop who's like, hey, what are you doing, lady?

Everyone hanging out their windows. There's three journalists with hats. Yes. Riding on little pads. This peach is our peach. He looks at one photo and he's like, it's their peach. What can I do?

My hands are tied by the law. I'm kind of astounded he didn't get a supporting actor nomination. Mike Starr? Yeah. He does take them to the fair. As New York cop. Yes.

It's incredible. And he just owns the last 15 minutes of the movie. He's one of those guys where you're like, you have this outfit at home, right? He's one of those guys where you're like You have this outfit at home He's one of those guys who's like I got a construction outfit I got every YMCA outfit basically in my closet You might be very surprised to hear

That he was a drinking buddy of my father's During my father's gambling addict days Wow Was he a fun one? I think so I mean when he would go to Jimmy's Corner On 45th, the best bar in New York City Cool

Which is a former boxing corner man's bar. And he would sit there with a couple of guys every night and bet on games. And Mike Starr was one of his guys. And when I was a kid

and we'd watch movies or TV or whatever, Mike Starr would show up. My dad would walk in and he'd go like, good for Mike Starr. And I was, I always got the sense that like,

when you were drinking with that guy, no one would hire him. Oh, sure. When that guy was mid-20s or early 30s. He aged into character actor. He figured it out. We watched Ed religiously in my household.

And he was just so thrilled when he was like, Mike Starr's still on the show? And we were like, yeah, he's a regular. Good for Mike Starr. Remember Ed? We watched every... It was one of the only TV shows my mom liked. It's kind of a cute show.

Yeah. I'm just looking... Spider- liked. It's kind of a cute show. Yeah. Here's some... I'm just looking... Spider-Man. The Raimi Spider-Mans. Those are New York movies. Very New York movies. I'm trying to think of New York movies we've covered.

Sure. Bright Star. That was very New York. Hey, I'm walking here, Keats. Efron's. You Got Mail. West Side Story. When Harry Met Sally.

Yeah, we've actually covered a lot of New York movies. And this movie mostly takes place in a peach. Yeah, but at the end. And also Santa Peach from Brooklyn. I don't know if you know. I was astounded checking the creds that Ed Burns didn't play Santa Peach. I know, he should have actually done it.

Yeah. He is actually going to revive Santa Peach, but it's going to be about how that guy can't get laid. Sorry, just that Burns movie. So this movie starts out. By the way, I want to tell you that I googled kinds of bugs because I was trying to find what kind of bug I want to be. I haven't decided yet.

This movie starts out with scientific textbook illustrations of bugs. Beautiful credits. Beautiful. I would hang that up on my wall. Violin music. Yeah. Eisner must be having an aneurysm just from the start of this thing. Where's the attitude?

Yeah. There's nothing hip happening. It reminded me of like the opening of Sleeping Beauty. Yes. How it's all like medieval illumination. Which is so beautiful. And similarly chill. Similarly, right, low tone.

And then when you go to live action, you realize Henry Selick is committing to the most unpleasant reality ever committed to film lots of kids have their parents haven't been eaten by rhinoceroses I don't know what you're talking about it's a normal thing so that's idyllic the beach looks beautiful his parents seem lovely

it's very sweet and touching I will say this looking at the stars and all that the transfer of this movie on the Blu-ray and the streaming qualities that exist right now is controversial. Interesting. Why is that? I watched it on Disney Plus. There is a look on this to this movie that was certainly by design to sell it. It was his, you know, vision that it seems perhaps what exists out there now digitally and on, is a poorly preserved version of that where it is much darker.

It does look dark. Even more desaturated, even grainier than what it was. When you watch, like, because I was going onto YouTube and watching the trailers from when the movie came out, and you're watching lower res. There isn't one of those, like, 4k scans of the 35 millimeter trailer the color palette looks different the place where i think it becomes very apparent is when posse thwait enters and you can barely see his face it's so dark i think all of that's a little right this does look a little brighter it's really washed out and i understand the look especially in the live action section is like pasty vict Victorian, dreary.

Yes. Dreary is a good word for it. Yes. But the beach looks nice. His parents are very lovely. They love him. They're nice. Sure.

But then they got eaten by a rhino. Then the rhino comes. This is where I just start loving this movie. Loved it as a child. Love it today. Is the lack of concern needing to explain the sort of child book logic that i feel like movies get into literalizing what do you mean that got eaten by a rhino we can't do a rhino rhino is too expensive that doesn't make sense where did the rhino come

from rhinos don't eat people this is a movie that just commits the idea that there's just a rhino in the sky formed out of clouds and he kills the parents yeah he's still there he's there forever yeah it's true because in the book it's like they were at the zoo yeah and in this movie they're just like i don't know and then the rhino comes yeah then a rhino ate them the end now he lives with his aunts any questions but it feels right in the book it's sort of like it's a humorous sort of like, what's the most absurd death? Right. This, it's turned into like this mythical force. Yeah. The notion of the rhino in the sky.

It's the fear he must conquer in order to become. Right. That needs no further explanation, and he's just dumped off with these two fucking horrible ants, Joanna Lumley, Miriam Margolis, giving phenomenal performances. So good. Two actors who feel or can feel drawn by Joanna Lumley, Miriam Margolis giving phenomenal performances. So good.

Two actors who feel or can feel drawn by, created by Roald Dahl. You know what I mean? Yes. They're both such like exaggerated performers to begin with. Yes. They're a fun visual comparison. They have such opposite looks. Right. It's sort of like short and squat and Joanna Lumley is this like bizarre,

exiguous, exiguous tall woman. And Selick uses French and Saunders almost identically in Coraline. And the puppets are so similar to the two of them. I fucking love them in Coraline. Coraline rules. It's a goddamn home run. Yeah.

Yeah, I love them. For people who haven't already, I highly recommend watching Miriam Magalhaes on Graham Norton's Supercuts. Oh, it's so funny. She's so good. She's a wild woman.

Wasn't there a thing recently where she was on some show and they didn't turn her mic off and she said, like, fuck Prince Charles or something? Probably. She's always doing that. She's one of these, like, will-say-anything people. Yes. She's like an 85-year-ralian lesbian who goes on all the

british talk shows and just says whatever the fuck she feels like i looked i googled maria margolis graham norton and all of the like titles of the videos come up and it's maria margolis flashed martin scorsese new like very sexual very very sexual most outrageous moments yeah 12 minutes long yeah can you look up what the recent thing was she said live on air she was talking about justin uh jeremy hunt who's the new chancellor of the exchequer or something um now maybe this is brand new this is like from last week is this what you're thinking thinking of? She said live on air, when I saw him there, I said, you've got a hell of a job. Best of luck. And what I really should have said was,

fucking bastard. Look, she's cool. Joanna Lumley, this is sort of like Ab Fab, prime Ab Fab era. So she's, I feel like, popping up and stuff. Love her. Love Joanna Lumley. Do you like Ab Fab? You feel like it's a stuff uh love her love joanna lovely do you like ab fab you feel like you it's a bunch of drunk fashionistas right it's barely been yeah i mean i was quite you were

causing trouble yeah when it was like getting kicked out uh uh comedy central yeah but i remember it was just a show and i was like these are fucked up adults i remember i watched ab fab because it was like when i was a kid living in britain the cool thing like was abfab like that was i guess because they were drunk and i think i watched it and i was like is this what grown-ups are like sure when in fact it's like they're really kind of like children right they're being tended to by their kids and their kids like god our parents are so awful yes um but abfab rules god they bring abfab back i guess they did the fucking movie like four years ago never really it's it's one of those things probably just belongs in the 20 years of being

like would they ever make an abfab movie and then they finally did and people were like okay it's exactly like we were just talking about uh t2 train spotting which is another one that people were like begging for right yeah right um anyway anyway they're great those two are great and spiker and in a sponge they they kick ass grotesque i i like it when movies use theatricality as part of their look i like that this fucking little house on top of a hill looks completely artificial everything is these bizarre like paper cut out forced perspective sets that they have like grotesque theater stage makeup on her giant teeth the sets look teeny tiny tiny that's another thing i love it's like not only they force perspective but they feel like they are

10 inches long yeah yeah and they are humans in like little stop motion sets i think it's the right aesthetic choice because i think it does prime you for the strangeness of the stop motion yeah and the transition doesn't feel that weird as a result i also like i like a hill house where the house is like kind of like hanging off the hill. I love it. I always like that. Defies logic. Right. Defies gravity.

But I also love the, you know, in like Grimm's fairy tales and things, the adults who are mean to the children are not funny. They're just horrible. Right. Like the wicked stepmother is just horrible. You know, any of those types of characters. Right. In Roald Dahl movies, or books, rather,

the awful adults are perversely funny. Yes. And I think he's nailing this tone from the get-go of, like, they are horrifying to look at. They are truly terrible to him. Yeah, they're not nice. They're not good parents. They are perversely entertaining.

Yeah, they're fun. Yeah. I mean... They leave him fish heads Just the absurdity of like Oh they truly don't feed him They put him in a box Like all the shit you know He has a lot of grotesques in his

Bibliography Like Mrs. Trunchbull In Matilda right The aforementioned twits The twits The twits The twits I'm going to bring back the super fans And they only talk about Roald Dahl books

Yes, Charlie and the Talk Effect Are obviously the old people in that Are presented Mostly as gentle, but they're still kind of A little weird and creepy Weird enough that SNL does four sketches about them a season. Yes.

They keep on insisting on doing sketches that start with four old people in bed together. People rolling out the bed, yeah. But I guess Miss Trunchbull is sort of the biggest one in my head, right? Sure. She's a similarly sort of exaggerated villain that you kind of want as much of her

as they can give you right oh the witches is the other one obviously yes yes i knew i was right yeah um sponge and spiker though i don't know i i'm kind of rooting them for them to go they're so unpleasant at a certain point i'm like i need to get out of there's no this kid has no outside world there's no miss honey no there's no miss honey i was surprised when the peach rolled down the hill That there was like a whole neighborhood You never see them You see when they come to visit

When the peach is on display What's their jobs? Showcasing the peach I guess they do eventually do that Because like What do they do all day? It just feels like they're old money. Yeah.

They've got this stupid house. Why don't they get him something better than fish heads? Because they're mean. The whole point, they're doing a part. They're so mean. It's not for lack of options. They're spiteful. That's the whole thing.

They're like, we left something for you. They think it's funny that they left him fish heads. They're really awful to him. Yeah. Um, okay. So then he gets, he meets him a magic man well this is the first song yeah uh which is what my name is james or whatever yeah but james sadly you know sees the fish heads then sees in the garbage a fucking crisp bag yeah with like residue

inside of it he's like licking the bag licking the residue and trying to find some happiness, making this little balloon out of it to entertain himself. Right. And James has heard the grasshopper's music at night, not knowing it's from the grasshopper. And this is when he sings to the spider, who he does not know yet is Miss Spider. He does not know yet that she's the hottest bitch in town, that she is a babe upon babes.

Of course you're into Mrs. Spider. Okay, so I've been waiting for this. I've been waiting for this. I've been waiting for this. David, I'm not going to produce receipts. Okay. But sometimes in the past, on this podcast, we've talked about an animated film, and the second we finish recording,

you say, I was never going to say this on mic, but I have a big crush on that character. Obviously, the mom and ponyo is the one you're very vocal about. Did you see the fan cam someone made me of her? Yes. Sosuke's mom, you love. Sosuke's mom.

I just rewatched Ponyo hotter than ever. That woman bewitches me. There are other ones I'm not going to cite. Say it. Cite it. You want me to? I don't know what you're referring to. I'm sure it's awful.

The frog from Princess and the Frog. The second we finished recording, you said the reason I like this movie so much is because I think she's awesome. I'm re-crushing her in frog form. The whole time I kept on saying, David, why have you seen this so many times? And you were like, I don't know. The second we finished recording. She's bossing. Bossy frog face.

And it's like, she's in human form as well. i'm like oh yeah i guess she is i don't remember that i remember the frog you have not said anything about tiana in human form who i think is a beautiful woman it's very pretty but you were all fucking horn up for frog tiana now my point is that it feels like sometimes when they are non-human you are reticent to admit you find them attractive on mic i was watching this movie last night and i said i'm gonna fucking force him to admit miss spider is maybe one of the highest characters in the history of cinema miss miss spider is a is a 10 out of 10 hit it emma go for

it she is one of the like when when you always i don't know if you always do but some sometimes the like prompt goes around where it's like, which, you know, classic, like probably animated female character was your like sexual awakening. And, you know, people cite like Shego from Kim Possible or whoever, like, you know, Poison Ivy. Look at her. Look at her. She's the OG. She's got a beret. She's classy.

She's played by Susan Sarandon. Doing like the breathiest foreign, like, you know, fucking, what's her name in- Mean French lady with a heart of gold. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah, there you go. Who are you thinking? You know, Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Come on, what's her name? Oh, Natasha. Yeah, exactly. Just that thing where it's like, you know, how you worked on this accent for five minutes, but I love it. You know what I mean? It's like the most generic accent. Euro accent. Oh, she's so good i just love you know i mean sosuke's mom lisa is still number one sure

for you but i just attention must be paid here no yeah no she's incredible yeah there was that thing like a couple months ago where susan sarandon like broke twitter because there was some video of her almost falling out of her dress. Susan Sarandon? Yes. She's very pretty. And she's like in her 70s. Is she in her 70s?

Yes. And everyone who has spent the last six years online complaining about Susan Sarandon for political reasons. Right. She like got Trump elected or whatever it is she did.

That video circulated and everyone was like, I give up. I can't say anything bad about the woman. I mean, it's one of the best AV club headlines of all time, in my opinion.

What's that? Susan Sarandon masturbated to for old time's sake. Susan Sarandon's a babe. Miss Spider is a babe. And one of the sexiest voices of all time. Very wonderful voice. Yes. But James just sings to her in whatever. And it's a song about for me I'm James

he needs to hold on to some sense of self because he's got fucking nothing as we were saying as opposed to some of the Roald Dahl stories there are no friends there are no kind family members there are no kind teachers James's life is just fucking cleaning up the house for these two shitty women who are openly abusive to him

so he's got to talk to Bugs do you talk to bugs all the time yeah figured um then p posselthwaite enters as a character named the magic man and this is absolutely the first time i'd seen p's posselthwaite on screen that's a good question that's a good point even probably was for me the year after this and i was like oh the magic man glad to see him working yeah i mean, I don't think I'd seen the usual suspects or in the name of the father.

Yeah. What his hairline is doing, I didn't think was possible. Everything about the way he looks. He comes on screen and I go, this is the most twisted vision yet from the visionary mind of Henry Selick. And that's just talking about his bone structure.

He's so incredible looking. I mean, this is in his... He's handsome. This is kicking off. He is. He's handsome. He's striking. He's got the stubble going on. Obviously, he has the Oscar nomination in his pocket already for In the Name of the Father. He's been in stuff like Alien 3. He's been around for a long time. And Spielberg's about to collect him for a couple

movies. This is the thing. He's incredible in Distant Voices, Still Lives, if anyone's... But this is the kickoff of him in just like peak character actor Hollywood. Studio paycheck. Yeah, right. Dragonheart, Romeo and Juliet, Brastoff, which he's amazing in,

Lost World, Amistad, the, you know... Ooh, Animal Farm, that was good. Yeah, the shipping news. That kind of evens out. He still does stuff, though. He still just worked and worked and worked. Yeah, the shipping news, that kind of evens out. He still does stuff, though. He still just worked and worked and worked. Yeah.

Dies too soon, of course. I know. Just that crazy year of Inception in the town where he's so good in both in small roles. And it felt like he hadn't been on screen in years. It felt like this is his return. And I'm sure I've mentioned on this podcast that I saw him in a 90-minute one-man play

called Scaramouche Jones, where he plays clown uh who's going to die at midnight uh which is one of those things where it was like just watching him work was very cool yeah um yeah is it a comedy no it's sort of like you know happy sad kind of weird thing but it was more just like it was like I think it was just like a thing he toured for his whole life like it was like his big personal that's like really cool it was cool um picture of him as scaramouche jones cool there's also he did it he did like a a documentary in which he was playing a fictional character about climate change okay it wasn't like a what the bleep but it was that kind of thing where it's bleep do we know?

Half scripted, half documentary, talking head interviews or whatever. But it was like him playing a man from the future. It's called The Age of Stupid. Yes, thank you. And there's incredible... It's like he's in the future trying to figure out why the world ended.

Correct. There are incredible red carpet photos of him promoting The Age of Stupid at whatever film festival premiered at where he went down the red carpet photos of him promoting the age of stupid at whatever film festival premiered at where he uh went down the red carpet with a bicycle can you find these yep if you see them and he's like steering the bicycle up at the paparazzi line god bless god bless pete bossel this is one of these things i'll never forget how old did you see him anytime died? He was... 64.

What the fuck? We had so much... He had pancreatic cancer. It was very scary stuff. Yeah. What are you going to do? One of the best. He's a great actor,

and you know, he's well cast as the magic man. Look, he doesn't have a lot of screen time, and he really makes a maximum impact with what he does. And it's also like this is now now you're seeing someone be kind to him and inject a little bit of hope into James's life. I can't remember who it was,

but it was some interview I read with some actor who worked with him early on in their career. We're doing a scene with him. It was his coverage. And they were watching him and they were like, this guy is horrendous. He is the worst actor I've ever seen. This is astonishing. He is so overdoing it. Does he just not

care anymore? And then they went behind the monitor and they watched the footage and he was perfect. And they were like, he was one of these guys where he somehow knew exactly how to pitch it for the lens. He liked the lens. The lens loved him.

Spielberg said he might be the best actor in the world. I think we talked about that on either Armistead or Lost World. Yeah, those two back-to-back. Yeah, that thing. Our best sideburn actor. He looks so good with sideburns. The man has whiskers. Yeah.

Okay. All right. He's got whiskers. He's got whiskers. So he gives James a bag of all the things i said in the opening these magic little glowy things yep um and his mean aunts uh spell it they knock it out of his hands yep falls into the ground it's tough he kind of falls in the book it's tough though because you're like fuck that was his that was the one i remember when they and they all like

wriggle into the ground and god damn like god damn it And then of course Grows a giant peach Which then they exhibit as a tourist attraction And it's on a tree Which I do love This big fucking thing that won't snap off I love the look of the peach In this form especially when it looks like

It's just a giant balloon That they've dressed up Here's my only thing. In the book, Roald Dahl gets into how delicious the peach is when he tunnels into it and he's like... Is that good for the mic? Great for the mic. And it's just so juicy and it's the best peach you ever tasted.

It doesn't feel delicious in this movie. Randy Newman wrote a whole fucking song about how delicious the peach is. There is an entire song about this. It's the whole musical number. They prepare it 40 different ways. It's called eating the peach. Except he flicks some fucking cigar on it.

But it doesn't look juicy enough because it has to be like tunnel-y. I disagree with this. I disagree. I don't like peaches and I think the peach looks good. I'm sorry. What?

Not my fruit. What? Not my fruit. Emma, where are you on peaches? I love a peach. Two versus two or three versus one? I love fruits. No, I think the peach looks good. I'm sorry. What? Not my fruit. What? Not my fruit. Emma, where are you on peaches? Two versus two or three versus two? I love fruits. No, I love a peach. Peaches are good. Well, you gotta get them right though. If you got them bad, then... What are you... I'm horrified.

Peach is my favorite fruit, I will admit. Number one. Raspberry. I've eaten it for days. Raspberry with a bullet. Raspberries are good. Then I'd probably go number two, banana. My daughter likes to take the raspberry and put it on her finger. Well, that's humblebrag. And I did as well. She'll probably find you a picture of her doing that.

Yeah. Raspberry, banana, apple. I mean, these are all good fruits. Yeah. I got no beef with these fruits. Peach doesn't move the needle for me. Wow. Do you like any stone fruit or are you anti-stone fruit?

That's a good question. The plum, the nectarine. I don't really love them. I think the peach looks delicious in this film. When I was a kid in primary school in Britain, and you guys might know that chips is the word for french fries in Britain. It was a talent show. There was a talent show at my primary school,

and people get up, they sing songs, they do dances. One kid got up and he said i have a poem called chips and everyone was like all right and he said they don't have bones they don't have pips they don't have stones that's why i like chips and he sat down and he got the biggest standing ovation i've ever seen this like little seven-year-old kid just absolutely annihilated with that poem never forgotten it and he's right they don't have any of those they're soft airtight logic anyway I'm trying to find my daughter with raspberries on her fingers

I think the peach texture looks amazing in this movie I know exactly what that would feel like if I just put my hand in I think it sounds great every time they show it very Very sexual fruit, of course. Call me by my name. Call me by your name. Whatever that movie was called.

Remember that one? Call you by my name. I don't know. It's complicated. They're like saying each other's names. I can't even remember. No, it's a good fruit to fuck. I don't debate that.

I don't contest that. Peach pie, my favorite pie. Oh, sure. I like peaches in sort of desserts. Peach cobbler. Classic. Yeah. I'm just never going to eat a peach. You know who makes a great peach cobbler? Who? Daniel Day-Lewis.

He was a cobbler for a while, supposedly. You know? You know the joke? That is true. dan was a shoe man everyone understand good what was your fucking dan lewis text the other day ben want people to know that ben in text does not drop the bit that dan lewis is a close friend of his it's not a bit why what did i do um? It was because the Alan Rickman diaries came out. Yeah. Right, and he had some...

Did he have something about Dan Lewis in there? Yeah, I think he is like me. We both know Dan pretty well. He calls him Dan, maybe. Are they in something together? Yes, but I'm trying to remember what it was. What was this fucking thing? I don't know.

All I remember is that Ben called Alan Rickman Al. He's now added this to the repertoire. Let me find it. All right, here it is. All right. Yes, here's the excerpt. 4 p.m., Dan Day-Lewis arrives to play tennis. I mean, that is pretty funny that he just wrote that in his diary.

And that Ben said, makes sense sense Al and him were pretty close Alright so it goes in the peach They were boys Al Rickman You guys talk about the peach Well I want to talk about They set up this show Yeah sure

They're hawking tickets to the peach Right One little girl asks if she can taste it they set up this uh show yeah sure they're hawking tickets to the beach right one i think the little one little girl like asks if she can taste it like taste it your tickets revoked and they send her home another joke that's really funny goes oh father i'm sorry i'm gonna actually have to charge you twice and then he goes uh i forget he has some line back at her but like there's a lot there's lots of little joke moments like that. There are good jokes. They're very good jokes.

I like also the bit where they do the full Roald Dahl sort of like limerick recitation of her talking about her own body parts. Oh, yes. The toes. Yes. Yeah. And I forget, how does the peach get rolling in the first place? Well, it's only once. And James climbs inside. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I forget, how does the peach get rolling in the first place? Well, it's only once. And then James climbs inside.

Yeah, it's only once he goes inside. Right. He eats a little bit of it. Oh, that's what it is. He's so hungry because they don't feed him, he starts eating a little bit. And he eats one of the little crocodile tongues. Yes. Right.

With the bite of the peach. Right. Which makes him stop motion boy. Yes. He becomes stop motion. He goes into the tunnel. Yes. I believe it's Centipede who actually disconnects the peach well okay he does something insane that i could not get i had

to like go back and re-watch this centipede's a wild man he they he's the wildest of them in the character design for the centipede they use the like jaw like chelicerae that they would have as a mouth they just put it on the top of his head and give him like a normal little human mouth with teeth on his face little triangle nose gotta be able to see that he's smoking a cigar clearly yeah you can't do that with little they would get in the way yeah uh but they keep it they keep them yes just on the top of their like this little antenna between his antenna yeah And that's how he chews the peach off of the tree.

Right. Yes. Voiced by Richard Dreyfuss, of course. An incredible voice. Yeah. Really good. He's making an effort.

This is the thing about these voice elements. Everyone's really... It's not like, yeah, they just sort of cast someone and it's like, all right, just do your thing. Like, he's doing

like a performance. They're all doing things and the bigger the star, the more they're making an effort for something outside of the normal speaking voice. This is his follow-up performance to Mr. Holland's opus. Okay.

But, like, this is Dreyfuss' stinker era. Yeah. You know, like, American President, Krippendorf's tribe. He played a lot of stinkers around. But every time I listen to this, I don't even hear him in no neither do i doesn't sound it's impressive i had to google it i was like

who is this transformation he doesn't do the singing but he does everything else uh obviously the other okay so you got simon cowell and mr grasshopper perfect casting he's wonderful but he's like playing the most extreme version of a simon cowell yes uh not not yes not simon cowell he's not like it's no for me he's not like they told you fuck what was her name who's the lady susan boyle susan well they told you you couldn't do it but i'm here to tell you you know yes the most condescending thing in the history of pop culture that's an incredible performance and the way they all react to it in retrospect is pretty upsetting it's i i really get stuck on the susan boyle thing because i've watched that clip several times because it is

genuinely and it's just it's good television like right like you know like the moment where everyone switches over yes but at the same time right it does feel kind of like incredibly patronized but whatever she's got a great career she does yeah it worked out um but hey simon callow right um susan sarandon as discussed can get it as miss spider she can get it any day of the fucking week twice on sunday david thules great mr earthworm really good really so good maybe low low key like quiet mvp yeah i love mr then double cast miriam Low-key, like, quiet MVP, Mr. Earthworm. I love Mr. Earthworm. Then double-cast Miriam Margolis as the glowworm. Yes, she's the glowworm. And then Jane Leaves. Yes.

Middle of Frasier. Middle of Frasier, hot. As the ladybug. Am I forgetting anyone? No, that's the crew. They get rid of the silkworm. There was one extra bug in the book. Yeah.

Who they get rid of, and they just let... They've already got a lot of worms, right. Yeah, and they let Miss Spider do the web the web swinging yes but I remember that that's a whole thing in the book where they're like

the silkworm makes really good silk and that's how they connect the birds it is pretty fucking weird that there's worms that just poop silk

yeah I don't know how I feel about that yeah Ben should collect them for your clothing line yeah I should and they look

they look like wait I'll make production a lot easier they look like... Wait, hold on. I'll make production a lot easier. They're like moths, right? Yeah. They're like silkworms? Yeah, they're moths. Yeah, it's wild that we use bug poop

and it's like expensive clothes. It's not poop. It's different. Go on. It comes out of a different place. Let's see. They are bred for... It's called sericulture. is the the cultivation of silkworms

for silk it's been going on for 5 000 years fascinating that is fascinating uh in the night before christmas episode came out last week ben quoted or david quoted you saying i wish i was bugs yeah i did say that right in. In reference to Oogie Boogie? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were talking about, I said that I didn't like... He's my favorite character. And to be clear,

I want to two weeks in a row state that I don't like that he's bugs. I didn't at the time and I don't now. I don't like when he's bugs. Emma only likes it but wishes she was it.

Emma wishes that I could like pull some string on her neck and suddenly she just unravels and she's just bugs You don't know that you can't do that I don't know that I can't I've never tried Maybe the reason I like bugs so much Is it's like an agenda

You're trying to get us all into bugs Yeah they're pretty cool What do you guys think of bugs then like a bunch of worms fall out of her mouth Now that we're onto the bug characters though I want to give you some space, Emma, to talk about bugs. What is your personal bug ranking? Of these in the movie? I think I want to know both that and in the insect kingdom.

Oh, God. Okay. The insect kingdom is so diverse, though. It's so diverse. That's why I'm asking. There's so many, like, types. Yeah, there's so many types. What are your opinions on these bugs represented in the film as bugs? They're great.

As we were talking about before. Not as characters. I'm talking as, like, a bug expert. Yes. No, they're good. They do a good job. Okay, I have a question. Do you like that bugs have a lot of legs,

and do you think it's funny that they would have to have many shoes? Oh, I think it's hilarious. Okay. Yeah. There's a whole thing in the book with, they have to take off centipede shoes because his laces get tied together. And it takes a long time because he has so many legs and so many shoes. Centipedes don't have 100 legs, despite being called centipedes. They don't.

They do have too many legs Two to four is enough This probably turns most of them into hands Yes Centipede, that's his thing Grasshopper, what's his thing? He sings He's smart He's kind of a snob

I love his little outfit I would wear that Do you think that's good though That the grasshopper has a monocle That the grasshopper is the classy bug It's funny that they made him that way But I guess when you look at a grasshopper's face Even

First of all Sort of elongated face And the music I guess they're getting into this They're sort of like violin players That's what they latch on to But in your opinion is that more of a blue collar bug i mean sure yeah when you get you know because when you see them they're they're in the dirt they're on the ground they're

just sort of hanging out that's a lot of them yeah well that is a lot of them that's true worker ant i feel like the ultimate blue collar right worker and Right. Worker ant, you know, he's got a pickaxe. Yeah. Oh, I want to be a fire ant. Ooh. Oh, they're scary. Yeah. Oh, I don't like them.

They'll burn you. Yeah, they'll burn you. Like, you know, obviously you could imagine the ladybug as being classy because she's a lady. But here it's more like she's a little old lady. Yeah. Like with a handbag. Yes.

Yes. I would say a butterfly is kind of the most elegant. Butterfly is very elegant. That's kind of like an opera singer bug. That's like the only one people like. Yeah. Yeah. Classic.

Likeable bug. This does that thing that I love in animated films where like every character is very distinct as written, right? They all have very distinct voice. There's no joke. Any one of the bugs has a movie that could be delivered by one of the other bugs sure very rooted in very specific personality types and comedic games right right then they all have very distinct looks that somehow feel like perfect externalizations of their character

game but also just completely different physiologies right like you have someone like grasshoppers like all leg tiny torso centipedes just long ass torso tons of little arms oh yeah right lady bug is like a perfect circle with tiny little arms and legs like they're all just interim is just fucking a line um and then the voices are like the perfect matches to the physicalizations what bug are you happiest to see in your house? In my house? Yeah, like there's a bug in your house. Spiders.

Spiders. What bug are you least happy to see in your house? That's the real question. Cockroach. Moths. Moths. Yeah, you had a moth problem. I have a moth problem.

You have an ongoing moth. I had pantry moths, which said they don't eat cozy food. Those fuckers are so hard to get rid of i feel i feel a lot of moth uh solidarity for for arthur reasons right but but they're they are so fucking annoying yeah yeah i'm not someone who gets like super freaked out by like cockroaches or shit like that or ants i'm like well i gotta solve this but moths like actively fuck with your shit yeah they do and i like sweaters a lot but solve this. But moths, like, actively fuck with your shit. And I like sweaters a lot. But if you think about

it, it's like they're customizing it for you. It's like couture. Ben, you should start collecting moths as well. What if that's what you do next? You, like, you, like, have, like, a moth chamber and you, like, put clothes in there. By silkworms and moths?

You give them like a day and then whatever happens, you take the clothes out and you're like, this is a unique object. This is what they created. It could be a subline called Bugs by Ben. Alright, I'm going to write this down. You know what's fucked up about moths? They don't eat.

At all? The worms eat. The moths. The only purpose is to have sex. Then what the... They don't eat? At all? The worms eat Sure The moths And then they turn into a moth The only purpose is to have sex Then what the Sounds good to Can I be a moth?

How do you go to moth school? The fuck Why are there these holes in my sweaters? Because the worm The little The worm form Oh boy That's the one that eats

Sometimes I feel like I'm in my worm form Yeah I'm absolutely in my worm form I don't remember if I told this story on mic Okay Is it about your worm form? No I was like talking I was talking to a friend of the podcast Kevin T. Porter

About being a sad lonely single bastard And I was just sort of talking about how I feel No this is a comedic story. I'm setting it up. And I was just saying, like, the attitude I was trying to take these days. And he said, I think it's fine. I think you're, like, entitled to have, like, a slut period.

I think you can have a slut period and just go out and have fun. Be in your slut era. And I said, no, Kevin, I said slug era. And that I want to just lie around and do nothing yeah i feel like a disgusting no i'm pro kevin you need to exit your slut era go into a slug era go into some sort of chrysalis exit my slug era i don't know um you want to see a moth that i like yes it's called a hummingbird moth they're're really big. They're about the size of hummingbirds. Too big.

They're some of the few moths that do eat. They're like butterflies. Oh, that's cool. But they're moths. They're gorgeous. Emma does this to me a lot. Just shows you. Yeah, where I'll be like, I just saw a fucking spider.

And she's like, you know what's a cool spider? It's the fucking Colombian jumping spider or whatever. That's pretty cool. I love jumping spiders. Emma, do you know that I got bit by a spider and I have a scar on my head and it caused nerve damage? What? Yes, this scar right here.

Uh-huh. It was a wolf spider. It bit my head in the middle of the night. Oh, my God. And until I started taking it in New Jersey. Wow.

All fucking places. Prime territory for wolves, right? Yeah, shit. And it started just, basically the flesh just was like slowly just melting. Ew. And so I had to take antibiotics and stop that whole process.

And they have necrotic bites. Isn't there? Am I misremembering? And I have no feeling there anymore. It caused nerve damage. So you can just touch that part of your head? Yeah. It just feels kind of like a phantom feeling.

It's really fucked up. But I share it because it's kind of cool. That's kind of cool. You know what I mean? A little ass thing could do that. Yeah? Yeah, nuts. I'm looking at...

There is a big Jersey dig in this movie, right? Yeah, yeah. Grasshopper will be blown off course. Centipede will wind up in Jersey. It's just... It's just... I mean... It sucks. centipede will wind up in jersey it's just it's just i mean it sucks but it's unfortunately just a part of like popular culture i guess yeah you know what's cool about wolf spiders what they

carry their babies on their backs they do yes i've got a picture here in fact in the summers you can go out at night with a flashlight and you can look for them and you'll find them because their eyes reflect light in the dark. David's giving it a big old thumbs down. I don't like them. I don't like these little spider babies at all. Also, this spider's got like spikes on its legs. Those are hairs.

They're hair. That's how they feel where things are. Susan's friend's voice ain't coming out of that. James has met the bugs. You're getting us back on course. Yes. I've got more facts to drop in whenever you need. Oh, yeah. We'll return to this.

Well, that's the life for me as the first song. That's the life. That's the life. Yeah. I mean, sure. It's sort of a cute voice. I was doing Ladybug. That's the life for me.

But the song, yes, the song is he sells them on his vision of going to New York City. The dream he's held onto for so long. Right. They don't know what to do now that they have, they're stuck in this peach. He has a little postcard. Right. Well, he said, the magic man told me the answer would be right here. And he taps his breast pocket and he realizes the postcard his dad gave him is right there.

And the postcard essentially is his dad being like, New York's a cool place. We'll check it out sometime. Love, Dad. The Empire State What's that? A rhino? Yes. It was written mid-death. That's my favorite bit is when people write out their death sounds. Gargle, gargle. Oh no!

Stop! Always. God, there's some fucking Terry Pratchett Discworld joke where someone opens a fortune cookie And it's like help I've fallen in the fortune cookie machine Oh no I'm about to die And the guy's like these just aren't funny anymore They do that in Monty Python And the Holy Grail So good always good always funny

But yeah that's sort of the I want song Of selling all of them On the idea of New York City Which Centipede is obviously hugely into Because he's a Brooklyn boy Centipede's such a fucking good character We already said it but I agree with you He's like a bullshit artist

Supremely confident in everything Right he's kind of got the attitude of like a cabbie Slash you know new stand owner. Never stop smoking a cigar. He's always got a chomping on a cigar. Yeah. Chomping. He's got like a perpetual, his mouth is like.

Yeah. Because he's always got a cigar in it. He's got this incredibly long sideways mouth and he wears like suspenders. Yes. A little cabbie hat. Yeah. A shirt with many arms in it to fit his arms through. The suspenders are cool.

The extra long suspenders are very cool. He's my favorite, although Miss Spider. They're all great. They're all lovely. So then the mission becomes, how do we get to New York City? Right. So Senna P cuts the stem. First group musical number, then first action sequence is...

Rolling down the hill. Senna P cuts the stem. Right. And then how Rolling down the hill. Yes. Centipede cuts the stem. Right. Yeah. And then how do we take flight? Yes. Yeah. So, wait.

So, first, wait. Do they end up in the ocean first and have to deal with the sharks? Yes. Yes. That's the first action sequence in the... Right? Yeah. So, that's fun.

Mechanical sharks. But it's not sharks. It's... Okay. It's the pirates and the mechanical shark. Right? You know. What am I forgetting here? First, it's just hooking the birds, right?

That's what I couldn't remember. Is that second or first? The birds was first, and then the shark comes, and we have to hurry up and get the rest of the birds. Right. Because they need some time to figure out how they're going to do. It sort of overlaps. Right.

Yeah. Sorry if this movie, I just watched it, but weirdly. It's episodic. The plot doesn't, yeah, exactly. Yes. But James is kind of sheepish at first when they're trying to think of ideas. He's like, I'll say it, though, you know?

And it's like he has a good idea. Okay, thank you for bringing this up. This is the thing I love about this movie. Yes, he goes like... You're a kid watching this movie and you've had the experience of feeling timid in a room. Correct. In a group.

But he goes like, we could, no, never mind. And Miss Spider's like, no, say it, James. Right. And Spiker would have shut him down. Time Manics is another movie that I think does this well. Okay.

The sort of like, I haven't seen it in a long time. Kids should be listened to. Right. You should listen to what they say. And it's a classic kid anxiety. It's like, you know, I'm just going to get laughed at. No one understands to. Right. You should listen to what they say. And it's a classic kid anxiety. It's like, you know, I'm just going to get laughed at.

No one can hear me. No one understands me. Yeah, yeah. But like, Time Bandits has the crazy ending where it's like, he tries to warn his parents and they don't hear him,

even still after he's gone on this journey. Right. But it's this thing that's so lovely, especially after he's had these fucking horrible abusive aunts, that the bugs, like, want to hear what he has to say right and are so proud of him when he comes up with anything uh right they're very supportive

it's and it's a real collective yes this is not some tale of like the bugs are at war with each other no because like you know i'm a spider and i don't like centipedes start shit with everyone a little bit but they come to love him. But yes, no, they love him. And it leads to the, I mean, well, the family song comes later, but yes. The family song is, it's after eating the peach. But when they're all like sort of triumphant,

they go like, and it was all thanks to the brilliant idea from James. Like they just really, they want to boost this kid. He's not had a lot of w's he's been kind of in his l era one might say uh so yeah it's good he needs he needs some wins yeah yeah uh what else happens i mean mrs spider uses i mean her webs to hook the birds. I like that her web is just like there's a hatch on her back and a spool comes out. Oh, a little spool, yeah. That she's like mechanical.

Right. I also feel like she looks like her legs are just the armatures they use under stop motion puppets. Like not even dressed. That's interesting. I mean, she's got these boots that are like six feet high or whatever, right? Like she's got these giant boots

which are cool. But yeah, her legs are sort of mechanical looking. They look like corkscrews. They look like they have hinges in their knees as well. Glowworm looks like

Florence Foster Jenkins, right? I mean, her whole bit is that she hangs out inside like the little lamp. She has power over light. And they're like, turn the lights on. Right. The whole peach gets lit.

She's cool. And then just the black and white aesthetic she's got going on is cool. Yeah. But yes, you get to the peach number, which... Are we going to talk about how the shark is mechanical? Yes, let's talk about it. Because I don't think we can ignore that. But this is the book logic shit, where it's like, where's the rhino in the clouds?

What's the shark? A robot. It's a robot shark. It's very cool design. Like the giant mouth that kind of winnows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the art style too, the way it's animated looks so incredible. It really feels like the illustration has come to life.

Sort of steampunky. That particular object. Which becomes its downfall eventually. It is wild to me that like, Selick has made five movies. And each of the movies has a different design language. Like he does, a thing I like about him is, he brings on different people

and sort of designs a world off of their style rather than like... You cannot quantify what the Henry Selick style is because the first movie he's obviously working off of Tim Burton. This movie he's working off of Lane Smith. And Roald Dahl or whatever. Monkeybone, I don't know who it is, but you're taking this underground cartoonist art style.

Coraline, it doesn't look like the David McKee illustrations. Yeah, no, it doesn't. I mean, Coraline- But it has its own look. It does. I mean, the characters sort of have the big exaggerated heads and faces

like here, like James here. They look like dolls in Coraline. Yeah, in Coraline it's a little different. Right. I also feel like- What a masterpiece. As a kid, I would read all these- Wendell and Wilde, they look very different, I would say.

Right, I think all his films look different. You saw that, right? I did. I think they all have a different design sensibility. And as a kid, I would read all the, like, art of making of books for animated films. And you'd see these concept drawings, character designs, where you're like, that's so cool.

Why can't it look like that? The thing you hear so often from people who work in animation is they just end up going back to like, let's do the simplest, roundest, cleanest version of the design. But you look through like the Art of Toy Story book and there's a draft where like William Joyce designed every single character. And you're like, fuck, that's cool. What if they all had that distinctive a look or any of those things? Selick's one of the only directors in animation where I feel like he will actually just pick one of the

weirdest interpretations of one of the concept artists yeah William Joyce's buzz oh my god kind of cool I love that so surprising you can look at William Joyce's Rex but this is

what I'm saying he'll like bring on different illustrators I think it starts it maybe stems from the fact that his first film is riffing on someone else's art style in its very inception, right? But he'll like bring on different designers and then he'll just be like,

you designed the aesthetics of this film and this is a movie where every character looks like an incredibly cool rejected concept design where Disney was like, that's too weird. You can't do that. You have to make it look more normal. And what I love about what he does with that is that even the most complex little bits of the designs move independently. Like I'm looking at Nightmare Before Christmas right now and I'm remembering how Jack Skellington's little collar is bow tie. Yes. It like unfurls and furls all the time. Yes. It feels like he just gets so excited, the potential of, oh my God, wait a second.

If Centipede has suspenders, then we can use that. He can repel himself. Like, he's a guy who just gets so excited by the possibilities of motion with these characters. I can't find his Rex, which is too bad because I want to see it. It's wild. But now I'm just thinking about Dinosaur Bob and how much I love that one. It looks wild the biggest concept art thing for me was when i saw designs for um frozen uh-huh and elsa or the character that like later became elsa had this like ermine like cloak yes like a you know like

a queen would have like white fur thing i'm gonna show you right now what you're talking about they were the the little guys were alive, the little ermines, and they would look at them. Yeah. Look at that. Can you imagine? That was when it was going to be Elsa as a villain, too. And right, right, she was going to be a straight villain.

The sister thing that became the most successful thing in the history of movies. A very profitable change. Let it go. Let it go. But yes. Oh, fuck, this is cool, though though look at this gif it's so i mean the whole thing with frozen to me is like even if you keep the story as it is i would just love to see it but this is the thing you look at things like this and you go god i wish the whole movie looked like that and celica movies are the movies where i think the

whole movie looks like that yeah right and not only that the idea is like what if everything moved all the time are actually seen through to completion it's a furry let me see oh i don't like this this sucks well i googled her elsa frozen or guess what people took it in a certain direction okay uh a thing i talked a lot about selleck's camera movement in themare episode because that was so revolutionary with stop motion that he was like, I'm going to shoot this like it's a live action film. Right. And Nightmare has these crazy, like, Max O'Fools,

like, sort of sweeping, endless movement shots. Yes. This has a little bit less of it, mostly because it takes place in pretty contained spaces. Right. Even when you're outdoors, you're on a peach. In the middle of peach. Int peach.

Ext peach. Yeah, well. Those are the two main locations on a peach. In the middle of peach. Int peach. Ext peach. Yeah, well. Those are the two main locations of the film. Ext top of peach. There's a thing that happens less in this film, although it does happen a little. It happens a lot in Nightmare, and I forgot to mention it, that he does that is astonishing.

What's that? Henry Selick will, like, have his characters, if they gesticulate wildly out of frame, especially because he has characters with such extended limbs, right? The camera will like slightly pan a little bit to catch their arm extending. That is cool. As if there is like a human cinematographer

trying to catch up with what that actor is doing on that tape. He will do that. It makes it feel less static, right? It makes it feel more like a real thing you're watching. Some of the scenes where Grasshopper is walking,

I notice especially when he's getting in in this peach, delicious peach musical number, and he starts stomping in the peach like it's a fucking wine stomping or whatever. When he walks up the stairs

that are being formed by inchworm, the camera is like struggling to keep up with him. There's shit like that where he just understands the logic of, and it's like, that makes everything so much more difficult. To not just involve camera movements, but involve camera movements that feel like

they are unexpected. But it does ground you in a certain reality of making the thing feel real. Right. You know, because you're playing with the language of what you know, quote unquote, real movies look like. And there's that sort of choreography. Nightmare has the same thing where it's like,

he doesn't have that much dancing in his musical numbers, but the choreography of the movement is so specific. Characters are so perfectly timed with each other, where like on the lyrics of the song, Inshuorm is contorting himself into stairs for him to walk up perfectly at the moment he wants to step into this bucket oh that's great i think every preparation of peach looks great the thing i think looks most delicious is the peach beer sure i would drink that and i also like that this musical number

gives everyone their own like little silo siloed off solo in their own style. I just wanted to, though, say before we get to the eating of the peach, a favorite trope of all time of a young Ben is when a character be hungry. And didn't know what he was gonna say and all of a sudden he look at his friend they turn to a dang roast someone turns into a turkey leg or whatever it's still to me i'm like it's still the funniest yeah and it's so funny in this movie too because they turn into food that they kind of look, that they evoke. Yes. Like Grasshopper turns into

a bottle of wine and a wedge of cheese. Right. So they like, right, it's not even physically. It's the same shapes, but also the attitude.

Right. This is what I'm saying. These characters are so crystallized. Like they're so locked in on these different types. It's also just funny where it's like, we're used to this trope of what you're talking about.

They're stranded at sea. They're so hungry and starving. The fact that they have to be reminded that they live inside a boat. I know, I know. He's like the one. Right. And that the song turns into not just like,

oh, we have this endless food supply, but like we can prepare it anyway. Yeah, but I remember that stressing me out, especially in the book when I was a kid. Well, don't eat too much. You can't eat the whole goddamn thing. You need to live in this thing. That's another good bit, too,

that I feel like is a very Ben bit when they need to get the attention of the birds to hook them, and they use inchworm as bait. Yeah. Yeah. Wiggling them out at the top. Yeah.

I mean, because that's mischievous. Yeah. I love inchworms. He's got, like, the shape-changing sunglasses. With his expression. That reflect his expressions. That's good. But come on.

Do we talk about the pirates enough? Well, that's the next thing. I'm going to order here. I'm trying to figure out what we're missing. Right. So they realize they're lost. Yeah. They need a comfort.

Centipede falls asleep at the... Right. We, we, you. Yes. I don't know how he navigates. They get frozen. They're stuck in snowy territory. They're going to end up in New Jersey.

They realize there's a pirate ship at the bottom. They need to go get a compass. And Centipede has, like, pissed everyone off. Right. So he heroically jumps to the bottom, even though everyone thinks it's pesticide. Right. Because he has to prove his worth.

And we get to the sunken pirate ship manned by Jack Skellington. Donald Duck. Yep. Then there's like a brute. Yep. There's one classic sort of like striped shirt pirate.

It's a good gang. It's a good gang. One guy looks like a Viking. Yeah. I guess it's kind of like the idea of like all of these different sort of like all these characters have ended up in this frozen land like the pirates the vikings they've all sort of gotten stranded in the same place the ducks yeah it's like a ship graveyard right

don duck's a sailor right it's different types of nautical characters. Right. I like that Centipede literally calls him a Skellington. Yes. I think they literally, like, I think the origin of it is they literally had, like, jackheads. Yeah. And they were just like, well, we can use these. It's easy. It will save us money if one of the characters is Jack. Yeah.

That's nice. I mean, because he doesn't work that much considering how big Nightmare is. These are really his only two movies. Oh, wait. He... Okay. He wasn't in... He's in G.I. Joe Retaliation, but it's a small part. I was trying to think of just some fucking irrelevant

movie for him to be in. He's in Journey 2, The Mysterious Island. I think he has an Oli fans now. He does have an Oli fans, and it's actually pretty good. Who are we talking about? Jack Scullin. I don't judge, but he seems sad. That's the problem with Jack Scullin's OnlyFans. People should do whatever they want to do,

but he doesn't seem happy. Look, let me give you... His bony dick. I mean, I'd like to see it. I'm reading some Lane Smith quotes right here about how he designed these characters. He wanted the spider to be sexy so he was stumped for a long

time on how to do that. Well, missed the complex. His big inspiration was Diana Rigg in The Avengers. Cool. The earthworm, he was like, give him sunglasses because he's blind. And he's got the little collar.

Yeah, which is cute. He kicked the silkworm out because the silkworm is a lump in the corner that doesn't move he just thought it was like bad yeah um there's this whole thing i forgot to mention that selick is like mad that tim had stolen a lot of artists for mars attacks oh like he was kind of vacuuming up talent again look selick sometimes sure makes things sound very bad you know to be like he has kind of vacuuming up talent again look selick sometimes sure makes things sound very bad you don't know like he has sort of a negative view of uh life um but he was like tim is like vacuuming my animators to uh to go do mars attacks well that was the thing mars attacks was going to be stop motion it was right and then they eventually go to ilm in the game that they

switched to cgi you can see there are a lot of tests. Yeah, which probably would have been fucking cool as shit. It's like Harryhausen shit. Like, it was perfect. I remember when they did the Burton exhibit at MoMA, they had the videos on a loop, and they had the stop-motion puppets. It was the exact same design. It looked exactly the same.

When they did it in CGI, they just scanned the puppet, but it was going to be done in a Harryhausen style. So I think, yeah, he absorbed most of those people. The centipede had 20 joints in the face alone because of the cigar. That was really hard to do in stop motion.

And his face is so mushy. Yeah. I just like that they all have different textures, too. Me, too. It's that thing... It's a thing I like about Toy Story. Uh-huh.

Is that you can have characters with completely different aesthetics coexisting. Right, because it's like any toy is a toy. Right, and these toys were made by different companies, so they have different styles.

And this movie basically, even though they all come out of Lane Smith, chooses to be like different design rules for each character. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, he looks spongy. Peach was six feet tall. That's pretty cool Very cool What are you googling there Emma? I'm just looking at centipede pictures He looks like the stinky cheese man The centipede is probably the closest to the stinky cheese man That's the kind of classic Lane Smith

Like sort of collage face Triangle nose And It is crazy to think about Essentially it's like working with two crews Yeah Like you know moving between Like doing this live action photography

And the stop motion stuff There's two listed DPs on this movie And one thing they worried about Was that the peach looked too much like a butt It's got that big ass crack Yes it does My favorite number is family, which is the one that comes after the pirate sequence when they're also a

triumphant. There's a little moment that I think is really nice when Ladybug compliments Spider on a good job. Especially in stop motion and things like this when animation is still so expensive and films are kept to such a short running time. When people choose

to include moments that small, it says a lot to them. Yeah, no, I agree with you. Yes, especially because, right, in stop motion, every moment is fucking a lot of work, so. Yes. And I think this number is really sweet.

It's when James puts together that Grasshopper was the one who played the music he heard outside his window. Right. I sent this number to you and JJ over text the other night because I think it's just so visually inventive. When you were saying that we were a family.

Well, yeah. But also, JJ, our researcher, was saying, like, it bums him out his daughter is three now. Right. And he's, like, watching all these movies and reading about Selick. And he's like, I feel like she's just a bit... A little young. A little bit too young. Not quite ready.

But then he was also like, on the other hand, I showed her the nightmare trailer. She thought the thing with the shrunken head and the present box was funny. We go to Walmart, everything is Jack Skellington. If you're like walking around stores in October. In October. When we go to the grocery store,

everything is fucking Nightmare Before Christmas. Maybe she's not too young. And then the next day, my friend Derek, my oldest friend, whose daughter is three going on four, and said to me, he was like,

I'm not going to say his daughter's name, has gotten like obsessed with Jack Skellington now. And I was like, really? And he was like, He's a cool MF-er. She saw it around. And then I played her a couple of the songs and I've showed her some of the images.

I haven't tried watching the movie. Now she loves This Is Halloween. Like it is. So I was saying to JJ, he was like, I don't know if you can watch it yet. And James and the Giant Peach is the one that is like has the scariest stuff in it, I would argue, of any of the Selick movies. I think the stuff with the aunts is incredibly bleak. The rhino, some of the shark, skeleton, pirate stuff is like a little more harrowing. When this movie comes out, James was four, my brother. So I was like comparing it against that, right? And I knew that he loved it

and he was a kid who would get fairly scared at movies. But there are things like the family number that are like genuinely sweet and tender and sort of soft and pleasant in this movie, more so than the other Seliks. I think... I was just talking to my friend Claire. soft and pleasant in this movie more so than the other sell it i think it's funny i was just talking to my friend claire the resting space of this movie is more pleasant than the other cell yeah the peach is such a warm happy place and they're so nice to each other

they do be nice i was talking my friend claire and she said like coralline when she was a kid was so frightening yeah the concept that she couldn't watch it right coralline is his most well nightmare is Horror as well. You have to kind of remove Monkeybone because that's its own thing, but he taps into pretty primal sort of fairy tale fears. You haven't seen Wendell and Wild yet, but Wendell and Wild is a similar thing.

As a gathering. Do you want to see my daughter holding her Jessie bath toy? I'm sorry, who got that for her? You did. That's what I'm showing you. Because she was trying to take her baby, which is a doll, to daycare, and I'm just like, I just don't want her to do it because I'm afraid it'll get lost or whatever.

She would not fucking let go of Jessie. So she walked in with Jessie. Anyway. Got some future present ideas. Interesting thing about the songs. Do you know who Selick's first choice was? Huh. Not Elfman. No.

Someone who usually works in movies or not? No. A pop musician, a great musician. Kate Bush? Elvis Costello. Wow. He threw that out to Disney and Selick said their alarm went off and they said, too weird. Like, no, no.

Yeah. Would love to, no. Yeah. Would love to see that. Yeah. His second choice was Andy Partridge from XTC. Wow. Who actually wrote us like a demo and he said it was very beautiful, but Disney couldn't make a deal with him. And so Randy Newman,

who was Disney's pick came in. Comfortable. Yeah. And it's at that time he'd just done Toy Story and you know, um, uh, but he liked the Randy stuff. He wanted a British music hall music is how Selick puts it. But he liked the Randy stuff.

He wanted British music hall music, is how Self puts it. And he said Randy got that. I think this is very outside of his usual style. It is. I mean, the song he sings at the end is the one that sounds like a Randy Newman song. I mean, it's weird that they get to New York and then they all sing I Love L.A.,

but apart from that... Yes, absolutely. They do this family sequence, which is just lovely. I love the shot of... I mean, I also just think the fucking design choice of the um the fence from the peach rolling down the hill becoming the weird spiral staircase around the peach love it it's such a good idea gives them so much latitude in terms of making the thing feel less claustrophobic because it's like there's more space they can explore. But that end of family

where they're all like dancing up the staircase and then it turns into the mobile and they're one of the planets in the sky. They're the sun. It's cool. It's good shit. It is cool. I feel like you're more into this movie

because it's more rooted in your childhood. Yeah. But like re-watching this movie i was it was exactly as i remembered i was just like it's it's there's no foot put wrong you know what i mean like there's no moment in it that feels wasted or pandering obviously just what an incredible thing technical that's what i'm saying an artistic achievement yeah it's not like a lot of disney movies from this era the late 90s, where you're starting to see, like, just kind of, like, crass,

sort of, like, kid stuff creeping in. No, and everything in this feels very specific and individualistic. Things like, whereas like this, where it's like a mechanical shark or a cloud rhino, you're like, how did they get this in? How did they, like, sneak this by? Yes, it's wild. Right, so that's the final thing after the family sequence is he sees the rhino.

He has the final confrontation with the rhino in the sky. He has the dream. I don't know when the dream comes in. We have to talk about the dream. The dream is fascinating. Right. Where it's like cut out photos on puppets. It's like a collage.

It's very Terry Gilliam. Yes. But it's three-dimensional. Like, they're taking photographs on top of models. Right, and he's a caterpillar. He's a caterpillar, and he's eating a peach or something. Yeah. And then the ants come.

Uh-huh. And they're like, we're gonna get you, and they spray the poison. So does he wake up from that and face the rhino? The rhino's in the dream This is like between something I don't know when this happens in the movie Spiker and Sponge show up in the dream too

They're like That's what we're talking about The ants Oh right Every time you say ants The human ants The ants Because I keep thinking

Do I want to be an ant? There's the final confrontation with the rhino Where he yells at it in the sky and says you're not real Yes that's well after this Although the rhino is very much real and it did eat his parents I know that's what's wild But I guess it's like maybe it's like he has to conquer His fear of that or

Good for him like it worked but he's wrong That rhino does exist He's real and I hope it will be brought to justice Because rhinos shouldn't be eating people Willy nilly I don't know how fair I hope it will be brought to justice because rhinos shouldn't be eating people willy nilly. I don't know how fair I need it to be. Maybe it's unfair. Did they eat them or did it just trample them to death? This is the thing. It ate them.

Dahl and the movie both specify that the rhino ate them which is not something that rhinos do. They eat people. The look of the rhino is like incredible too. It looks so good. Like hippos, hippos hippos will chomp a person they don't want to swallow sure they they got those big mouths they're so dangerous but i don't look at a rhino and go like what i'm afraid of from this thing is the mouth the mouth i'm like

i don't want to get the mouth it's almost hard to identify exactly this thing is all spiked i'm not really looking past the horn he has this final confrontation with the rhino, and then he wakes up. Yeah. The light's flickering. Yeah. He magically turns back to a human boy. He sure does.

He crawls out of the peat. Hold on, hold on, hold on. The thing's worn off. We're skipping stuff. Okay. We skipped some of the pirate stuff. Okay. We skipped the fact that the centipede goes in

because he failed I said that You said that I did say that, yes But then Spider and James go in after him Yes To save him because they're like We need to help him

Family Because he's our friend Yeah Right, right, right Camaraderie, sure And then they're in a storm, right? They get stuck in a storm Yes

Which is where the lightning That's where the rhinos End up in new jersey right that's the storm over new jersey at the perpetual hurricane yeah right new jersey's a cyclone at all times just dropping wolf spiders on children's heads um yeah and then they they end up i mean they get speared by the empire state building i mean it's a great image i think the all of the bugs get kind of, they... In the storm,

they all get scattered. James is like, I'm going to face them. Because they're going to hold on to the birds. Right. They go up with the birds. He stays on the peach

so they get separated. Yes. And he ends up on top of the Empire State Building. Right, and has his confrontation. Right. Gets knocked out, wakes up. He's like,

where's that damn building? Yeah. Am I really in New York?ork yeah where's the empire state building kid you're on top of it and then the like the the the zoom out to like weird construction paper empire state building and the like most classical like randy newman new york music look anytime i forget where i am i just look around until I see the Empire State Building. I'm like, right, New York City. That's where I am.

But it's another thing I love. It's like you talking about how tiny the set is for the house at the beginning in live action. This like, oh, you're in the middle of New York City. Here's the Empire State Building. The set seems six inches wide. It's like one tiny street corner. It reminded me of the Hudsucker proxy miniatures.

That's exactly the vibe. My favorite aesthetic of all timeucker proxy miniatures. Yes. That's exactly the vibe. My favorite aesthetic of all time. There you go. Yeah. If a giant peach slimed me from way up above, I'd freak the fuck out.

Oh, you wouldn't like that? Like an air conditioner drip, I'm like, what the fuck was that? I guess. A sticky peach-like syrup. As much as I love a peach, I do love a peach, but you don't, you know, when it gets all over your hand and it's all sticky.

Oh my God, it would ruin my fucking day. Yeah. I could not stop thinking about that while I was watching this movie. Like, they're so sticky right now. So sticky. They'd be sticky the whole time. Oh, yeah. There's no water to wash themselves off.

I just, I love that New York City gets such a bad rap. People like to say we're a bunch of mean grumps. We got a rude toot, right? Everyone in New York, any passerby on the street, you're going to give them the business. They're always saying we never sleep. Yes. We sleep plenty.

They say our apple is big. They're always going on about our damn apple. Talk about the peach for once. No, but I like that he lands here and everyone is really nice to him and happy and excited and wants to help him i mean the cop takes a second to you know you never seen peach this big before in his life that's true he has never seen a big big big peach before uh the little girl with the glasses and the uh telescope who's the first one to notice him on top of it, is this Sorako Dunlap,

who was a writer on the tech. Oh, that's cool. JD mentioned it to me, and I didn't realize that that is her. Oh, that's so cool. As a child actor, yeah. I mean, how does Spiker and Sponge show up?

We don't care. They just drove. They drove through the ocean. They've been following. Right, water spills out of the car. She has crabs on her butt They come They show up before the bugs show up I'm trying to remember the order

That's the whole thing where they're like It's our peach The cop takes that as base value And then James is like They are mean They are bad people And so they attack him with axes i just i love james has the courage that moment where he starts saying like they were mean

and everyone's like what how could you be mean to a child this cute yeah and then they they make the tactical error of trying to kill him with axes which reveals that they are indeed the shift is quick like joanna lumley when she's her neck, they put such exaggerated sound effects on it. Like they've really become like these like grand ganyol monsters. But yes, the bugs come help him. Miss Spider, along with the crane operator, they web up... Spiker and Sponge. Spiker and Sponge.

up uh uh spiker and sponge spiker and sponge my favorite moment in the movie is just james saying these are my friends who i was telling you about and then the cops move the spotlight around the searchlight around and they introduce them one at a time and the audience applauds the new yorkers who are gathered around yeah it's kind of like a lindbergh vibe where it's like new york is like something landed in new york let's like a Lindbergh vibe where it's like New York is like something landed in New York. Let's go check it out. It's been happening in real time. It's been happening in all of five minutes. And he's like, these are my friends. And people are so invested

in the notion of the characters. The inchworm. Great green grasshopper. I'd want to meet him. Wouldn't you? Miss Spider. Mr. Centerpiece. I just love it that they each get a little bow. Yeah, you good you're right i mean and then they all get like a new york specific job like they all get a business well this is in credits them right you know like what is it miss spider has like a cool sexy night you're jumping ahead you're jumping ahead you're right credits because

they well they prove that james is the owner the peach, that he can live with the bugs. They eat the peach. They eat the peach. Go ahead. Have a taste. Right. It's not going to last forever. And then they live in a fucking peach pit.

My favorite thing about the book, the thing I was, I think as a kid, I was just like, the peach is in Central Park and I could go see it. Yes. Even though I never did

and I never asked to, in my head, I was like, it's there. It is true yeah He does live in the peach pit and it is in Central Park Another nice moment is when Spugger and Sponge are coming

Trying to drown him out It's the magic man in the shadows Let the kid talk He's just gently pushing the story along Ben's trying to get the credits queued up here I want to get these verbatim There was something When you're a kid there's something so liberating yeah to the idea even though like i had a happy home life where you're just like i just get my own fucking peach pit house i get to do whatever i want i got bug i got bug friends my family but they're not gonna

ride me like parents exactly they're kind of cool anything goes the bugs are like kind of like hip modern brooklyn parents who like call their children buddy yes right exactly um okay so all right centipede runs for mayor well i just what he's telling the story to the kids oh sure the magic man reintroduces himself and he says and james had had all the friends in the world suddenly he had more friends than he knew what to do with everyone kids would come every day to want to hear the story and eventually he thought he needed a way to tell the story to more people all at once and that is exactly what you've just seen which is how the book ends right yeah which is a thing that fucking is a mind

you're like you're telling me this is a book and you know that and there's a reason it exists it makes it feel more real in that way you're talking about where like i believe the peach pits there because it's like you're telling me this isn't this is truth right this is in this book to communicate a necessary truth i just think right now with the adam's administration doing such a poor job we need someone like centipede to enter the mayoral race and clean things up. Let's look at these headlines. Centipede enters race. They do the little spinning newspaper thing. Brooklyn Boy

promises the moon and then some. Next one is, that's the Mercury City. That's what that paper is. The next one is, Grasshopper debuts phenomenal four-handed fiddling. 20-minute ovation for Brahms' violin concerto. The other story is Soviet achievement ahead of prediction by three years.

All right, fair enough. That's in the Daily News. Of course, a real newspaper. Yeah. Okay, next one. Earthworm's smooth move. We like smooth men. Signs on as skin cream spokesmen.

This one is very specific. Yes. Okay, next spinning paper is... Okay, this is daily news. Doctor Ladybug. Delivers 1,000 babies. She becomes an obstetrician, okay? She's building, like, one in each arm.

Yeah. I guess the idea there is just, like, ladybugs are nurturing? Yeah, that's not really been established. That's like the rhymes. They have children. Okay, this is my favorite publication. and there's just like ladybugs are nurturing? Yeah, that's not really been established. All right, now. Spider Club. This is my favorite publication. And this paper is on the town.

God, I would go to her club all the time. It looks, her beautiful heart-shaped face. It somehow, it looks like Art Deco-ish. It looks really classy. It's like some Art Deco burlesque joint. I would be here every Friday night. Jazz dinner dancing. Oh, fuck.

I love all those things. Go on. All right. And then we have... Glowworm. Glowworm shines. I love that. Another Daily News.

The glowworm becomes the light in the torch in the Statue of Liberty. Saves city of New York millions in power. Great. We're spending too much money on that goddamn torch. And this is my favorite one daily news family celebration excuse me family celebration surprise party delights okay look i'm not trying to be rude but was this a slow news day one kid had a birthday? The lead is, he was delighted. Which is like fucking dog bites man.

I mean, if he's not delighted, then I'm interested. Even as a kid, I'm meeting this movie very earnestly. I remember that feeling like, that wouldn't be the front page. That's at best A6. That wouldn't. Even if the photo was front page? then it's like look inside for you know It's essentially a party report but you're like no there's a full Column there surprise party delights

James that's the last one Is there anything else Like the end of the shining It does zoom in like the end of the shining He's been at the surprise party the whole time And they're all there look at their little faces They're all there which is nice and then yeah we're rolling credits The Randy Newman song starts playing.

Yes, the fifth song, of course. Good news. Read your paper, spin fast. James have birthday. Someone had to clock our work early. Let me see if there's anything else interesting in the dossier here. They used 24 stages. Fuck, that's crazy.

The peach was six feet tall. Pretty cool cool i'd love to see that peach i wonder if they got it anywhere yeah i think they got rid of it it should be at the academy museum um or the louvre yes they should put it they should roll it to the louvre they should roll it all the way over to the louvre um selick you know did want the live action to feel phony opera set set, kind of monochromatic That's his thing, he loves Ray Harryhausen So he was very into the sort of Interplay of stop motion and live action In the end there, when they're in New York

He wanted it to land He wanted New York to feel like a Busby Berkley musical, but he didn't want them to land in like 90s New York This was in a we're back situation The really like police cruisers yeah it's puttering down the street and as you said the line of newspaper man in the phone booths yelling out their headlines they've got their little scratch pads what are their fucking lines like peach pit pummels oh god i wish i'd written it down it's like three great lines in a row CGI was handled by Sony Imageworks

They do do some I told you that he wanted Elvis Costello First choice for Centipede was Fisher Stevens and then Bruno Kirby Interesting He had to be talked into Richard Dreyfuss Because Dreyfuss was like

In the Disney Stable Because of Holland's Opus I can see them wanting a bigger name Dreyfuss was like in the Disney you know stable because of Holland's Opus I can see them wanting a bigger name it's surprising though that he like Dreyfuss basically does a great Bruno Kirby in this yeah it's true

Susan wasn't 100% behind it at first for Sarandon sometimes actors who haven't done voices before don't really realize that we care and it has to be great it took her a while to take it seriously but then we started showing her the puppet and she found a way into the role she was like this is fucking hot she was like i look like this um uh simon callow uh six months went by we hadn't finished recording recording him because he'd been off directing operas.

Wow. Miriam Margulies, obviously, a total pro because she was in Babe, which she's amazing in that. When they were shooting the live action, she was just like, I can do a voice. Like, have me do a voice. Cool. Because I'm good at that. Yeah.

And obviously, her voice is very different. Like, she's doing a completely different performance. Yeah. Film got good reviews. Roger Ebert says that it had brought stop motion to a new plateau, saying the movement was so fluid

he didn't understand how it was even possible. Yeah, Maslin thought it was great. A technological marvel. I do feel like this is the thing with a lot of these reviews, though, is it's like, it's a focus on the technical side

yeah I mean I was even just looking here like Owen Gliberman called the live action segments crude like there's that I found a lot of that where people were just like why is this so nasty right yeah yeah

well they should shut the fuck up Annie Awards that year okay what are the big i mean hunchback obviously is the big animated movies what was kind of fucked up if you ask me okay i guess they were still working at a weird like oh it's films from this date in this year to this date in this year oh that's annoying it's since last ceremony rather than within calendar year. So it loses to Toy Story. That's weird.

It loses to Toy Story. This is why the Annie's are no good. Yeah. It loses to Toy Story, which also wins directing. It wins producing. Yeah, well, Toy Story was kind of a big hit. Picture. I don't know if you've seen that film,

but it's actually pretty good. Randy Newman wins, beats himself for music. I feel like it won there was i know it got it got it got trounced in all in all errors by this but listen to this lineup here it was toy story balto whatever hunchback james the giant peach ghost in the shell oh fuck wow the show made the five. Yeah. That is funny to imagine. I know the Andes are not televised, but like a montage of Best Picture where it's like four children's films that you're cutting

and fucking Ghost of the Shell. Yes. I love that movie so much. It was expanded. More nominees, but now they have voice acting for TV and film are two different categories. This was combined.

Rob Paulson wins that year as Pinky on Pinky and the Brain. That's weird. The Brain is funnier than... Well, Pinky is pretty funny, though. Pinky's funny. Yeah. Paulson also just...

A great guy. Come on, Maurice LaMarche. No, I know. Here are the other nominees, okay? Sean Connery as Draco Dragonheart. Found that shit in... Dreyfus as Mr. Centipede is the one nomination from this film.

Jonathan Frakes as Xanatos on Gargoyles. The villain from Gargoyles? I don't think I knew that was Frakes. Not even Keith David. Tom Hanks as Sheriff Woody, Toy Story. Unaware of that performance. Tom Hulse as Quasimodo. Yeah.

Tony Jay as Judge Frollo. Possibly my winner. Yeah. An amazing performance Demi Moore as Esmeralda Three Hunchback nominations Ghost in the Shell was one of those things That was such a big crossover

That it was like in rental stores And I would see it Nestled among the cartoons And I would be like What is this? I wasn't even mad about it Can someone understand to me what this is? It's a cartoon be like this doesn't belong here what is this yeah what is this like i wasn't even mad about it i was just like i can someone understand to me what this is it's a cartoon it's clearly not for me

right and like i no one could because my mother did not know much about japanese animation she failed me but you know what fucking rules what goes in the shell box office this movie flops it didn't do that well it made 28 million28 million. It comes out in March, April? It came out April 12, 1996. Okay. And it opens number two to $7.5 million. Okay. And number one at the box office is a legal thriller

that was actually a huge hit. Well, no, actually, take that back. It was actually a solid hit. Is it a Grisham? No, but it's in that style. Primal Fear? There you go. I was like, I don't want to give him much.

I don't want to give him Oscar nomination. No, but I was thinking, I mean... Yeah, it's a William Deal. Have you ever seen Primal Fear, Emma? Do you know the twist? Nope. It is. I only watched it in the last couple of years.

It's a movie with a famous twist. I feel like I watched it during the pandemic. I'd argue the twist is the thing that works least well in the movie. I won't tell you. Don't fucking tell me. I've only watched it in the last couple of years. It's a movie with a famous twist. I feel like I watched it during the pandemic. I'd argue the twist is the thing that works least well in the movie. I agree. And I also think you see it coming a fucking mile away. I actually think that film is underrated as just a... It's a solid legal thriller. And the more it gets caught up in the machinations of the thing that gave it an edge at the time,

the less interesting it is. And the Norton performance does not hold up very well it was edward norton's breakout performance and it's one of those classic edward norton performances where you're like god he's just doing like a thing i know you know i like him as an actor often but that fucking motherless brooklyn fucking what else is he you know where it's just like stop doing something yeah come on there's another obvious one uh well there's the bit of that in the score the score sure i mean i think he's amazing in birdman which is not even a movie i like no i hate that movie but he's incredible really good he's right like there's like some performances where you're like god damn no i

think he's great in all the wes anderson movies yeah is. He's really good in that. He's good in the Glass Onion? He is. You saw Glass Onion. Oh, yeah. What's your take on him in Glass Onion? He's good. He's well cast. He's being deployed correctly.

He's playing a fun character that he can do very well. I mean, I think I've said this on Mike before, but Romilly saw Motherless Brooklyn and was like, why the fuck would anyone let him make that movie? He tried. And her perspective is, she's just like

the fifth guy in every Wes Anderson movie. Oh, because it's been so long since he was like, She's born in 1998. So I said to her like, Romilly, you need to understand,

at the turn of the century, he was undeniably He was the guy. Number one. He's the next fucking hero. And I sent her the Vandy Fair cover story in 1999 is, there's no doubt about it,

Edward Norton is the actor of his generation. And they're like, he's done four movies, everyone agrees that he's De Niro. To the extent that when he does the score two years later, and it's like Brando, De Niro, Norton, it's like the final anointment of three generations. Anyway. Wild.

Number one at the box office. Number two is James and the Giant Peach Number three is a hit comedy 96 Is it a carry? It made $124 million at the domestic box office Is it a carry? No Big comedy star

Yes It is But I feel like people just forget that this movie made $124 million in 1996. It's not a Robin Williams. It is a Robin Williams. It is a Robin Williams. In 96, so we're post Doubtfire. We're pre-Flubber.

Patch. This is an adult comedy. It's not Patch. Patch is 99. Oh, okay. This is an adult comedy. This is not this is an adult comedy this is not a family comedy no it's rated r restricted age 1700 require parental whatever and he's the main guy he sure is but it is an ensemble it is an ensemble and he's the top guy made 120 it's r-rated 24 million dollars and you would you would take that i would take that i would take it i would take it absolutely oh the birdcage oh huge ass hit birdcage that was a movie

i feel like i remember my parents never do this but they watched it multiple times that movie was like sort of a seismic cultural moment, and obviously it's got, it's, you know, it paints with a broad brush or whatever, but people kind of forget that like in the mid-90s people were like, Robin Williams, Nathan Lane are like a gay couple. I'm going. I gotta be there. And Nathan Lane, who was

like only a Broadway guy up until that point in time basically, that's like his big, yeah. No, I feel like that movie's been brought up a lot recently in relationship to bros and that film's underperformance at the box office. Yeah. It's obviously a different thing because we have like straight creative team,

straight actors other than Nathan Lane. Uh, but, but that movie was such a fucking hit. Huge ass hit. Just, uh, people,

and it's an, again, it's an R rated comedy. Yes. It's not even like a family comedy. That is how I found out that homosexuality existed. Well, sure. I think that's true for a lot of America.

Wait, what now? What's going on? A kid at school had seen it and I was just like, tell me everything because I was so impressed they had seen an R-rated movie. Right. And I was like, what's it about? And they were like, well, it's a gay couple. And I was like, slow down. What do you mean? And they were like two guys who date each other. And I was like, that what do you mean and they were like two guys who date each other and I was like that's not a thing I remember

pushing back on the kid being like if that happened I would have heard about it by now you're like six years old no one told me I live in the west village what are you talking about no gay people around I see lots of men who are very close friends my uncles number four box office is

new this week my uncle's allowed to bring a good friend to passover it's a thing yeah it's the same friend every time for years and they live together yeah number four at the box it's like burton ernie yeah you know i've been watching a lot of sesame street their relationship is odd they don't share a bed no they have two separate beds next to each other i love lucy but like yeah they're like a married couple well I wouldn't want to share it with Ernie either pain in the ass crackers in bed yeah Ernie is annoying

of course you'll take the fucking Bert side listen to this Griffin listen to this because I used to think my memory of them was like oh Bert's a stick in the mud and Ernie's fun and then the episode I watched Ernie they're trying to go to bed memory of them was like oh bert's a stick in the mud and ernie's fun and then the episode i watched ernie they're trying to go to bed and ernie's like playing the trumpet in bed and bert's like what are you doing and he's like i need to play the trumpet to fall asleep and

bert's like that's annoying and i'm like yeah like don't do that yeah well you know people have said that you're bert and i'm ernie yeah Yeah, well, yeah. It fits pretty well. There was that other meme recently of the, like, every podcast is this. And there's obviously, there was the Pixar one that was Linguini, Riley's dad from Inside Out, and Al from Toy Story 2. Sure. That got circulated for years. And then people would say to me, be like, I bet you haven't seen this yet. That one got old.

There was the one recently that was every podcast is this and it's Sully and Mike. Right. That's pretty good. That one really feels like it nailed us to a cross. That one's kind of brutal. Yeah, I'm definitely a Mike and I'm an Ernie and you're a Bert.

For sure. Number four at the box office. Ernie's funny and innocent. I love him, to be clear clear But if someone was playing the trumpet I might have something to say about that It's so funny It is funny It's a horror film It's new this week

Bit of a cult sleeper hit It's opening to six million It's going to make like twenty But it's sort of a launch for two actors Huh It's a launch for two actors huh it's a launch for two actors this is a classic movie you see as a teenager like at a sleepover when i'm a teenager do they make sequels to this no no it's a dead end but the two actors pop yeah it's basically like x with teenagers x hit movie with teenagers i'm sorry you're saying it's a soft remake of a

different film but with teenagers it's not a remake of ty west x 20 years before no that wouldn't make any sense that's why i was confused thank you for the clarification um okay so it's a remake of it's not a rebuttal it's just this it's that's the elevator pitch this move this hit movie but right it's not like cruel intentions but you're saying it's that kind of thing where it's not a rebuttal it's it's just this it's that's the elevator pitch this move this hit movie but right it's not like cruel intentions but you're saying it's that kind of thing where it's like we're doing this type of story with teenagers it shares a star with cruel intentions i'll tell you that much so is it a sarah michelle geller wrong it's not a reese it is a reese is it freeway no what am i fucking forgetting here? I don't know.

This movie. I'll tell you this much. It's called Fear. It's called Fear. The Wahlberg. Talking about Inside Out. Mark Wahlberg. And have you never seen Reese Witherspoon?

Have you ever seen Fear? No, I have. I get Fear and Freeway mixed up in my mind. Fair enough. Have you seen Fear, Emma? Never seen. Okay. Well, it's good.

Sorry. Fatal Attraction for teens. It's a good movie Wahlberg's good in it Number five of the box office I've been waiting to get to this one It's second week It's a comedy

Yeah Sort of like a comedy with a gun You know what I mean Where someone's got a gun on the poster A thing you complained about recently What I hate is a comedy where Characters do fucking martial arts now you know what i mean yeah no and i don't mean like martial arts stars i mean like you like josh dumel you know one very specific yeah i'm talking about that movie uh what i you like movies starring a kung

fool like you like a comedy oh my god if there's a kung fool i'm all in no what i remember most about this movie is it stars like a fairy he's an up-and-coming he's a big comedy star in the 90s the poster is in papyrus oh boy and no one talks about this because no one remembers oh oh oh oh i know exactly what film this is okay Okay, go ahead. Fuck. It's got a long title. I know. Is it... Who's the star? It's Martin Lawrence and Lynn Whitfield. Correct.

The movie... Did Martin Lawrence direct this one too? Did he direct this movie? Yes, he sure did. Thank you. And he wrote it. Okay. Is it called The Thin Line Between Love and Hate?

Yes, A Thin Line Between Love and Hate? Yes. A Thin Line Between Love and Hate. But like this was the poster that people put in theaters. People saw this. Describe it. Describe it. David, describe it. The exact same thing as that graphic design is my passion. It looks the same.

Describe this book. It looks like a wedding invitation. A bad one. A really bad one. Someone didn't make an effort. A Vistap a wedding invitation A bad one Someone didn't make an effort A vista print wedding invitation It says Martin Lawrence and Lynn Whitfield Lynn Whitfield is standing behind Martin Lawrence They're both decked out in all white

They're both kind of in wedding outfits Their bodies kind of disappearing into the background Lynn Whitfield's got her arms around Martin Lawrence Could be a hug or something more threatening Because they're holding her arms are holding a pistol a handgun and she's making a sexy face she's going like now describe Martin Lawrence's he's a little cocked his head's like cocked 15 degrees right

and he's going what I mean how else would you describe it yeah he's like she's got a what and lawrence whitfield and a thin line between love and hate are all in papyrus and then what is the tagline david um while some women are waiting to exhale this one is ready to get even kind of a kind of a damp ending to that like where someone were waiting to exhale i'm like okay are we gonna make fun of one more movie title within this sentence i'm also like it should be like a gun pun it should be like it should be waiting to unload or something you know what i'm saying i i mean you've already plussed this poster right like twice with that um this film was made for eight million dollars and it made 34 million dollars it was a hit Nightclub manager Darnell White

Played by Martin Lawrence Is a perpetual playboy and hopeless male chauvinist He works at a nightclub called Chocolate City And aspires to be the owner And Regina King Plays his childhood sweetheart And Lin Woodfield plays Brandy Webb A beautiful and wealthy woman

But she's a femme fatale i'm always fascinated by people like that where it's like i only had one story to tell martin lawrence is a filmmaker he was like i had to write and direct this movie i needed to get it off my chest and then i had no interest never did he never direct again i don't think so maybe one of his specials i don't know i don't think he directed run tell that i remember Till That. Do you remember that year at the MTV Music Awards? Go on. Whoever was hosting. No, he's only directing credit.

Thank you. This is what I'm saying. In any medium whatsoever. Yes. Like Eddie Murphy talks about Harlem Nights. He's like, I didn't like that. I think directing sucks. I never wanted to do it again.

Right. Then there are people like Charles Lawton where it was like, my movie was seen as a failure. No one would let me do it again. Martin Lawrence just had one story he was dying to get off his chest some women are waiting to excel from the pen of martin lawrence um whoever was hosting the mtv music awards that year okay it might have been jimmy fallon okay they were like the show it's not doing fuck there hasn't been anything funny in a while okay the laughs are dropping oh boy and they run backstage,

and there's a glass case that says, Breaking Case of Emergency with a little hammer. And it's Martin Lawrence inside. And he's just ready to do 10 minutes. And Lawrence comes out and does 10 minutes because MTV was about to release Run Tell Dad. I remember Run Tell Dad was one of those things where it was like,

it has the most offensive words per minute of any movie movie ever it has the most uses yes yeah run tell that run tell that um yeah well uh that's the top five of the box office you've also got sergeant bilko then funny really yeah okay you're not just you're not just playing it for the bit or whatever? I mean, I don't remember it. I felt like he wasn't that passionate. No. It was worth pushing back on that one. That's like the most beloved, like,

Bilko, Phil Silver's show is like, every comedian was like, that's the best comedy writing of all time. I know, I know. You can't touch that. I know. And then they put everyone in that movie. It's Phil Hartman, that's the best comedy writing of all time. I know. I know. It's like they're obsessed. And then they put everyone in that movie. It's Phil Hartman, it's Dan Aykroyd, and it's Steve Martin. I remember my mom coming back from

seeing it. I'm the biggest Steve Martin fan in the world. Chris Rock's in that movie. Everyone is in that movie. And she was just like abysmal. Devoid of laughter. Not good. Never seen it. I thought we were talking about... See, I always get it mixed up with that payment wanes. You like Don Periscope and Mikkel's Navy.

You like Renaissance Man. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Major Pain. Major Pain. See, that's what I was thinking. You like all the other military comedies of the time.

Yeah, because they're kind of like, you know, goofier. And also, it's usually an authority figure has to come into conflict with them. In the Army now, obviously. Is that the Pauly Shore one? Absolutely. Yeah, of course. Yeah. We should do a Pauly Shore series.

Yeah, we'll do Pauly Shore on Patreon. Biodome is a fucking classic. I think I've talked about, but there's the Pauly Shore on Joe Rogan interview where he's like, so what happened, man? What happened to your movie career? And he's like, I don't know. I don't know. They just took it away from me. And he's like, but come on, man.

After seven flops in a row. David. David. Rog's like, but come on, man. After seven flops in a row, somebody's... David? Rogan's like, come on, man. Like, what happened? And he was like, because I was like really big, man. You know, I was making all these movies and stuff. And he was like, yeah, I mean, you were like one of the big comedy stars. And he was like, no, I was like the only one. I was the only one who got to make movies. And then he'll be like, what about that other standup? He made some movies, but I made a lot of movies and Rogan's like so then what ended your run and he's like I don't know I have no idea we made the first movie

it was a hit we made the next movie it made a lot less money we made a movie after that it made less money movie after that didn't do so well movie after that big drop at the box office and then at some point they stopped letting me make movies like you've acknowledged they're all on a downward trajectory he had like seven then at some point they stopped like let me make movies like you've

acknowledged they're all on a downward trajectory like seven strikes at the plate rogan's like so it sounds like they stopped making money i was like i don't know you tell me no one ever gave me an answer um anyway anyway anyway we did it we did it yeah that's it executive decision flirting with disaster Oliver and Company Re-release Is it a good movie? I mean I haven't seen it since I was 6 I think it's good

Co-written by James Mangold Huh It's got Billy Joel in it right? Yeah he plays Dodger That's fun I haven't seen that movie since I was like negative four years old. Billy Joel, Bette Midler. Cheech Marin.

Yep. Dom DeLuise. Joey Lawrence from, you know. Yeah. Blossom. Whoa. Remember Blossom? Blossom was me power off on the TV.

That fucking credits would start and I'd be like, all right, guys, dinner time for David. I don't want to watch Blossom. It's funny because the younger generation just has the autoplay thing, but there was something about knowing I like this show at this time

and I always see the first 35 seconds of this show before I turn the TV off and I'll never watch it. Anyway, I don't know. Emma, any final thoughts on Bugs? I mean, how many? Do we have a few more hours? Go on, Emma. Bug it up. I mean, they're the Do we have a few more hours? Go on, Emma.

Bug it up. I mean, they're the best, aren't they? They're so fun. I love them. Where does this rank in the bug canon for you of bug films? Oh, this is like in the top, of course. Yeah? Okay, what else?

I mean, you just watched Prince of Darkness. A bug celebration. Yeah, there's a lot of bugs in that movie. That guy turns into bugs. Where do you stand on that? Honey, I Shrunk the Kid is a really big bug movie. Where do you stand on Bugs Life and Ants? I've actually never seen Ants.

Wow. Because I think they say bad words in it. And my mom was like, you can't see them in it. They say bad words in it. Yeah, they say bad words like therapy. My mom didn't want me to know about that. And starring Woody Allen. The worst words in the English language.

Bugs Life you like though? Bugs Life, love. Bugs Life I think has the same thing as this where it's like a great ensemble cast of different bugs. Yeah, yeah. With very defined character types and great performance. It's exciting to see the new ones when they appear. I always think about that scene where they go to the big city

and there's a daddy long legs walking above them Did you You've rewatched it recently I had a good time The bug city stuff is so good It is it just doesn't look that good The movie you do feel like much more than Toy Story The like oh shit

It's still primitive here But there's stuff about it I really liked And like the plot is fun Like the you know acting troupe thing is fun. Emma, thank you for being here. Thank you for talking about bugs. Thank you for having me. That's all I'm here for. That's not all you're here

for. It's the first time after six appearances between May and Feet and Patreon that you've explicitly come on to talk about bugs. That's true. That's true. We'll get bugs again. I don't know bugs. That's true. That's true. Yeah, that's true. We'll get bugs again. Yeah. Bugs.

I don't know when. David eyeballing. I'm eyeballing the schedule. I'm not seeing any bugs. I'm not seeing any bugs on the horizon. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate,

review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media, helping to produce the show. Thank you to Alex Barron, AJ McKeon for our editing, JJ Birch for our research, Leigh Montgomery and The Great American Novel for our theme song,

Pat Reynolds and Joe Bowen for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon Blank Check special features where we are doing things that we are currently deciding because we're recording this episode a little bit in advance. No where we are doing things that we are currently deciding

because we're recording this episode a little bit in advance. No, we're doing the National Treasures. That's what's going on here. Yep, National Treasure 1 already landed and then coming up is Talking the Walk and then National Treasure Book of Secrets. Packing open the Book of Secrets.

That's right. You like that book? Absolutely. Great. It's so good. It's filled with secrets. That movie's so good. Yeah. It's's gonna kidnap the president of the united states ben doesn't know how much that movie is about conspiracy theories he takes harris into the mountain yep that's true

the ben it's got some real illuminati shit going on oh yeah treasures the president's secret book that he writes all the secrets the fucking pyramid on the back of the dollar bill i'm yet to know these secrets book of secrets i guess does not skimp on the amount of secret book material. No, no, no. It's not some Hellboy to the Golden Army shit. It's Green, what's his name? The president? Bruce Green.

Fucking snacking at him. We stand. We were just talking about him on Dr. Sleep. Yeah. He's so good. Okay. All right, we're done. Next week, Monkeybone.

Next week, Monkeybone. Next week, Monkeybone. David's banging the table. Have you ever seen it? No! I think... I remember it was so hyped. Yeah. I was like, fuck! Brandon Fraser and this? I'm there. I salvaged it. Right. I have always maintained that it's good. I have not watched it in 15 years.

I'm very eager to rewatch. But at the time, I was America's preeminent monkey bone defender. Yeah, you were a boner. I was a boner. And next week, we're all going to get boned. Yep. Great.

Okay. Goodbye. And as always, books. Books. Books. Books. books