Blank Check with Griffin & David - Jaws with Timothy Simons

Episode Date: January 19, 2025

Dunnnh dun. Dunnnh dun. Never before had two notes provoked such terror as they did in JAWS, the 1975 classic that invented the summer blockbuster, catapulted Steven Spielberg to Hollywood legend status, and inspired generational trauma about water. Actor and recognizable famous person Timothy Simons joins us to talk about this classic shark tale, and we go long on Scheider, Dreyfuss, Shaw, and the career of journeyman director Joseph Sargent (?). Which member of the Blank Check crew would be least likely to get attacked by a shark? Obviously Ben, because he respects water. What the hell did Chief Brody think he was gonna do when he apprehended the shark - arrest it? Why isn’t Griffin familiar with the concept of a ferry? We dare to ask these questions, just as the citizens of Amity dared to go into the water. The Box Office Game is Sponsored by Regal Cinemas: Sign up for Regal Unlimited today and get 20% off your 3 month subscription when using code BLANKCHECK Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blank check with Griffin and David Blank check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check You all know me. You know how I earn a living. I'll catch this pod for you, but it ain't gonna be easy. Bad cast, not like going down the pond chasing talk shows and live streams. This pod, swallow your whole.

Little shaking, little tenderizing, and down you go. We gotta do it quick, they'll bring back your tourists, put all your businesses in a paying basis, but it's not gonna be pleasant. Value my neck a lot more than three thousand bucks, Chief. I'll find them for three, but I'll catch them and kill them for ten. But you gotta make up your minds. If you wanna stay alive, then ante up. If you wanna play it cheap, be on welfare the whole winter.

I don't want no volunteers. I don't want no mates. There's just too many captains on this island. Ten thousand't want no volunteers. I don't want no mates. There's just too many captains on this island. 10,000 for me by myself. For that, you get the bits, the context, the whole damn podcast. Look, I didn't do the Indianapolis speech. You have to be relieved. No, I think that was the right choice anyway, because I think that's the better speech. You know what astounds me every time I watch this film? That introduction comes earlier than I remember, but yet he is then basically gone for the next 50 minutes.

I was about to say. Yeah. There's not much Quint. Well, the second half, I mean this is... There's more Quint in the second half. This is kind of a fascinating two act movie. It is essentially two completely separate movies. Right?

And you could argue that each act has a three act structure kind of within it, but it is two movies in so many ways. Another way you could think about it is it's a three act movie, but then act three grew far beyond what an an act three usually does and acts one and two just kind of got squeezed over if that you know But I I was doing like let me check runtimes on this it is basically the halfway mark Yes, he's like fuck it get quint. We're going on the boat, and then they're on the boat for the second half the movie yes I don't want to nitpick. I'm wondering just for sort of like constructive criticism, was there a missed opportunity in there when he

talks about the money where you could have said Patreon? You know, I thought about it. I thought about it. Okay. I thought about, do you make some sort of implication of what you're, you want to bring back the the The the sponsors is that the analog? Yeah, the tourists on the beach, you know, and I was like look We're a little behind the eight ball today. That's some complicated math I was happy the way I broke pod and cast into different words to fill in the different names he used for fish I really like bits and I did I did enough's great. I did enough replacement, I felt. Is there a perfect version of this? Yes, is there the Jaws of podcast intros?

Possibly, I didn't do it. Maybe it was the Jaws 2 podcast intros. It's definitely not the Jaws of the Revenge, though. No, I don't think it's the Orca podcast intros. I don't think it's the Deep, I haven't either. Isn't it crazy that Shaw did the deep? That three years later he's like, I'll do another one of these.

I mean. Fucking pay me. I've never seen the deep. I do like Peter Yates. I feel like that's the best liked of all the Jaws ripoffs and certainly has the most interesting cast and Yates. Nick Nolte.

Jacqueline Dussin. Eli Wallach. Yep, Louis Gossett Jr. Good title. Yeah. Scuba action. Drugs. Hey! Underwater drugs.

Ben, write that down. Ben just sort of very half-heartedly pretended to write something. And then scratched his nails against the child. What is this podcast? He didn't even take the pen cap off. He just sort of went like... I said we're behind the eight ball today. I don't want to... And then scratches nails against the top what is this? You just saw anything I Said we're behind the eight ball today. I don't want to and again I don't want to belabor it please I know we are behind the eight ball

We are behind the eight ball David's life has tag behind the eight ball David live David's life has completely often Heimerden yet. We are still gonna talk about a movie that is As everybody has talked about my My life has Oppenheimer. I like this, I think this is good. The David Ischreck and his life is Oppenheimer. I would say that Oppenheimer's reaction to having children was basically to go to his neighbor's house and be like,

can you take these? I have no interest in raising them. Nice to meet you. The only reason I was even able to give any feedback on the intro is because it was so good and so I think we even saying yeah It's not anywhere close to the jaws two of intros. It's so much better. I appreciate you know what I mean yes, but this is also Look, let's just say let's just say it. Well David look out behind you Jaws behind this is blank check with Griffin and David. Oh, yeah, that's right. We have a Jaws beach towel hanging over a sound insulation wall.

I'm gonna do a photo shoot with it. You're gonna do a photo, you're gonna do a beach? Yeah, me and Marie are conspiring on that. Wow. Yeah, but this episode's not till January. We got time. Yeah. Are you gonna do a polar bear plums this year?

That might be fun. I've never done that. I witnessed it once. Yeah. And I was like, this seems like it would be a pain in the ass. It seems like a good way to shake off the Oppenheimers. Yeah, it might be. My friend Lindsay,

a friend of the show, Lindsay Weber, she does it. Maybe I'll ask her this year, like, when does that happen? What's the procedure? Yeah. Anyway. One time in the middle of the summer, I was in Chicago and I lived kind of close to the lake and it was like a really hot day and I was on my way home and I said, fuck it, I'm like three blocks

from home, I'm just gonna go in the lake. Like it was so, it was like that kind of hot and humid. And I went in the lake and it was so cold that when it like got to my heart line, I thought my heart was gonna stop. You had that crazy sort of, you're seizing. Yes. It feels like, yeah. And so I don't know, having had that, so I don't know having had that experience

I don't know that I would ever recommend or do a polar bear some people are very into the cold plunging I'm not good at it. I don't I'm not that Carson Daly. It's saved his life. Do you hear this? No Your Griffin fucking the jaws up Carson Daly your Griffin and I'm gonna be David here your Griffin fuck in the jaws episode Carson daily your Griffin and I'm David. What is this blank check with Griffin and David? I want to see if you can do it's a podcast about Filmography's filmmakers who get a massive success early on and are given a blank check to do whatever crazy passion project they want and sometimes Those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. I usually say early on in their careers, but gone Is this the first time you've ever actually introduced anything? I've tried to do it a couple

Yeah, ten years in at this point every time there's like a special event on the show We're forgetting that we've done it two times before We are here discussing of course the films of early the early films of Steven Spielberg. What's the miniseries called? I totally forgot. It's called Podrassic cast Sure it is I'm sorry that it that's just the fact and we are certainly discovering It's a cast. Uh-huh. Sure it is. It is. It is. I'm sorry that that's just the fact. And we are certainly discovering, thank you Ben for sending this New York Post article

about how Carson Bailey does cold plunges. Okay. He was a wreck mentally and physically. Not to go full David mode, but Ben, I'm shutting you down. I refuse. We are discussing his guarantor for life, essentially. Yeah, I'd say that. Jaws.

I'd say that. I'd say it would have been really difficult to ever lose the status that Jaws gave him. Despite the fact that he has a bounce to films from now. What is the bounce? 1941. His only true massive bounce, where it's like cost too much money, production was somewhat out of control, was a bomb.

He has disappointments after this. Right, relative disappointments, but he doesn't really make flops. That is the only calamity of his career. Right, and even that, of course, was completely survivable, partly because he goes on to then make Rage of the Lost Arkaneetee back to back after it, helpful.

But partly because he made Jaws. So no one's exactly gonna shut the door on Steven Spielberg even after that. One thing that I'm excited about today is that... Jaws. Jaws. Jaws. Jaws. I am excited to talk about Jaws, but as I was watching it...

The movie Jaws. I mean, like I even texted you guys last night to be like, Jaws is a good movie. Yeah, that was the exact text. Which, by the way, one of your better texts. Yeah. I feel like we have a little bit of set dressing to do. There's a little bit. We're gonna scratch the blackboard a couple times. I have to spend a lot of time in the car.

But I still am interested in having an active... An active back and forth with YouTube. You come in hot with some... What's Siri dictated? Yes. SMS's. And yes, I understand that a lot of times they don't make sense.

Sometimes there's errors. Yes, sometimes there are errors. Sometimes it's just funny to imagine you saying the words aloud. Right, sometimes they're like tone poems, but yes, the way they come across. David and I very often upon receiving them have no choice but to interpret them as you yelling at the top of your lungs

And it's not like they're being Translated by Siri into all caps, but they have that energy And I do understand that I think maybe I put that energy out in my life But that is I don't remember me yelling at the car. I don't think of you as a yeller. I don't think of you as a yeller. That's what's funny about them is they... You have yelling energy in the text. Who's our guest? They read angry.

Our guest today, of course, the great Tim Simons. I'm so happy to be here. Return to the show, a veep of... Nobody wants this. The hottest show in the planet. It's a hot show. It is. It is the planet. It's a hot show. It is. Yeah, it's a hot show.

Yeah. On the way in today, a young girl stopped him on the street and asked for a photo. What? Really? Yeah. Had to take a little selfie. I said, thank you. Was she a fan of Ralph Breaks the Internet?

She was. Oh, she was not a fan. I listened to your Ralph Breaks the Internet episode. It was great. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. No, to your Ralph breaks the internet episode. It was great. Oh hell yeah. Yeah No, she had she didn't bring that one up. She was talking about nobody wants this that is oh That was the thing. It wasn't your Jonah Ryan. It's no it was that okay cool He was a very successful show, but I don't think I was telling Ben about this off

I'm gonna say it was all it always sort of had a niche audience Yes And I also think the type of people who watched it are perhaps the type of people who are less likely to stop someone on The street and ask for a photo. Yes, right. I do feel like this show I was saying this is someone the other day, but nobody wants this feels like one of those like Netflix cannot pretend. This is Not a success, Right. Yes. And it doesn't feel like they're trying to convince us it is. Right. It's just like suddenly the show

within a week of it coming out was just like, oh, clearly this thing is hitting. Yes. And you are an incredibly tall man. I'm very noticeable. Who's been on a show that everyone's watching very quickly. Yes. Maybe cannot blend in conspicuously.

No, I simply cannot. But it is, it's always nice when something seems to connect with people. I have an opposite approach to my career. I love everything I've been failing. That's always been, I find it very satisfying actually and rewarding. I hate the public enjoying or even watching the things that I'm in. I loved vinyl season two. Well, it, God, it was good. The scripts? When the cast all gets together and holds hands and all does our sort of vision boy. No, I never read the

scripts. Reese's Offends is in Venom 3? Yes, and it's a little confusing because no one knows if they are acknowledging that he is also in other Sony Spider-Man movies or not. I mean, at this point it'll be a settled matter. Is he not playing the same character? That's what's unclear. And then some people think that he's secretly

playing Null, King of the Symbiotes. Oh boy, alright, I'm killing that out again. I don't know, this is, we're entering Carson Daly's. But in the trailer, he's clearly just playing a hippie in the back of a van playing guitar. Listen. In our defense, it was more on topic than Carson Daly doing cool stuff.

That's true, that was a year ago. Yeah, at least it's like a film that's coming out soon. For how much, Tim, you yell at us in our texts. Yes. And there's a lot of like guys I need to get back on the show and then we'll throw you options and you'll go and direct quote None of these really get my dick Christ did I really write them? Can for six months then you'll say like I need to get in an episode right now. We're like Tim

We're booked up We'll get back to you the next time there's some options and then you like shrug off the next options the two episodes You've gotten to do are the shining and jaws. I'm not asking you to say thank you But I'm just saying you have gotten like two of the most totemic American films of all time I fully know filler. I fully understand that this is I have I don't know how I ended up here. I'm very excited that I ended up here for those two films. I think it was just more,

when I've said those don't get my dick hard, I think it's not that they don't necessarily or that they wouldn't, but I also am like, I don't know that I have the sort of personal connection to those. And so therefore I wonder if it's ultimately a net negative to have.

New England. I don't know if the remaining choices, capital letters, get my dick hard, you know? Yeah, that there we go verbatim. That was it verbatim. I will say it is very nice to have friends who let me know that you guys talked about me on the show at some point. But there's always this ellipsis where they pause and then they're like, yeah, they made fun of you because of the way you text.

Yeah, because we're friends. This is what friends do. It's really wonderful to be friends with you, Tim. Yeah. To be clear. That's a very nice thing to say. Thank you. It is very wonderful to be friends with both of you.

Yeah. And my wife's watching, nobody wants this. And then suddenly I'm like, oh, Tim's in this? And then I'm like, you know, I'm like, you know, I know that person. Like I'm friends with him. You know, he texts me things about his dick and... his current status relative to a screenshot of a spreadsheet. Relative to Martin Brest's filmography. Jaws.

Jaws, one of the most important movies ever made, right? Yes, to the point that it's sort of like, how do we really talk about it in an interesting way in a blank check episode, because... even I feel like a sort of casual film fan knows Jaws was the original blockbuster and kind of invented the opening weekend and the merchandising and you know,

obviously kickstarted Steven Spielberg's career. Yes. But Sharks was big for them. Right. I think ultimately. Oh the shark didn't work, oh no! Did you know that? Wait a second.

The shark wasn't working. Is that in the dossier? I haven't heard of this before. They called it Bruce after his lawyer. Did you know that? Well, wasn't it ultimately very bad for sharks? Didn't people go around killing sharks after this movie came out? I can't imagine people, right, that Jaws actually was good news for sharks. I think a lot of things have been bad for sharks, like the presence of humans on our planets,

fishing patterns, things like that, right? A lot of things have been bad for sharks, like the presence of humans on our planet, fishing patterns, things like that, right? I think, though, after Jaws, and again, this might be in the dossier, this might be one of those things, like it was called Bruce after his lawyer. Apocryphal, right. I'm reading something here in the dossier

that this film was directed by Steven Spielberg, which I didn't know before. What were you guys, sorry. No bits, though. Even watching it again last night and I can't I cannot say how many times I've seen it so you've seen this film a couple times I've seen this film many many times right every and even last night it is still shocking how good it is this is how effect that's the

thing it's like it's so discussed in terms of its cultural impact right there all these things around it. But then you also just watching your perfect movie. Yeah. It's both like... It's not a film where you can find much fault. No, and even if it did not have the insane cultural industry redefining impact

in several different ways, even if this movie had underperformed upon release, let's say, in some crazy alternate universe, I do still think now, 50 years later, people would be like, oh yeah, Masterpiece Perfect Film. Like, it would have gotten there, which already would make it tough to talk about. And I, you know, I put this forth on an episode that will come out three months from now, but it does feel like at three or four different points in his career Spielberg makes a movie that then the rest of Hollywood's like fuck. How do we do this?

This is the first time right and he's doing and there's like the immediate wave of shit like orca in the deep and three jaws Sequels that everyone basically agrees to just ignore. Yeah But then there's also just like, I still think modern movies are trying to take lessons from Jaws. If they aren't, they should be. Yeah. I also feel like, is this one of those things where everybody tries to take a lesson from Jaws,

but what they forget to do is make a movie that has the quality of Jaws. And this is like a very specific thing that I was thinking of. The amount of dialogue that overlaps in this movie, like, that's one of the amazing things about it. And I feel like in every movie that would try to copy this, they would try to make it too slick. They try, they do not have make it too slick. They tried. Yes, of course. They do not have the conversational nature of it.

This was my thesis that I was starting to formulate upon the rewatch. Because this is like, I mean, Spielberg's third proper film. Yeah. We're counting dual. Yeah. And obviously it's this transformative moment for his career and for the industry and what have you.

But I also think this is the moment of the full, like, synthesizing of this guy who obviously had this insane, like, prodigious ability, right? Just has, like, a perfect cinema brain. Also kind of synthesizing everything cinema had been up until that moment. Like, I think part of the magic of Spielberg is not just his innate skill and his vision, you know, and his, like, facility on set and managing complicated productions. And I think him having to work through the struggles

of this changes the way he approaches filmmaking for the rest of his life, when people talk about how improvisational he is, how he likes not planning things out in advance and all that sort of stuff. But I also think, think like he's taking things from New Hollywood, from Hitchcock, from the classics of silent cinema.

Like he's synthesizing all these things and you look at the eras of, I'll say in particular, American filmmaking up until this point in time and you're like, this is what's popular and then a big shift happens and everyone swings this way and then a big shift happens and everyone swings this this way, and then a big shift happens, and everyone swings this way. And he's kind of like circling back and marrying classical stuff with modern stuff,

where like, you know, when MASH comes out in 1970, people are like, that's legal? People can talk like this? You can't hear what they're saying? They're overlapping? And Spielberg's like, what if I clean that up like 10%? The fact that Cassavetes was a big mentor to both Spielberg and Scorsese, and he was stripping

everything down to just the fundamentals of performance, writing, breaking down the formalism of blocking and everything. And then those two guys, I think, synthesize the lessons of what he's doing into things that are more conventionally cinematic. And it's like, if you have the rawness of Cassavetes' performance combined with like the sort of humor and the messiness of like Altman and the naturalism, but then also with like this sort of Hitchcock visual storytelling, like all these things.

I think that is why this movie feels like such a miracle that he's able to put these elements together that we now kind of take for granted. And also, as you said, they are rarely ever done this well again. Yes. I think a lot of, sorry, a few things. One, Jaws is not my movie. Me neither. And I don't mean mean that and I don't like it Way, it's just the right it was I was it was so totemic by the time I was watching movies

I have seen jaws a few times. I recognize everything that's good about jaws But right never my movie that I watched over and over again was obsessed with right we think I didn't see it until I was like 23 that's somewhat surprising, but I get it. I'm also with you. I didn't see it until I was like much older. We were talking about it before, about like those things that you miss because they've been parodied or talked about so often. You're like, I saw it. I saw it. It's da-dump, da-dump, da-dump. And yeah, I saw it. There's a shark. I had seen all the other Totemic Spielberg movies,

much more. Before you saw Jaws. Yeah. I think I was also scared of Jaws as a younger boy Scary you hear it from everyone who lived through that movie of like, oh my god I wouldn't sit on a toilet for five years. I wouldn't go in a swimming pool, you know people talk about it's not like one person Said that's an overreaction. It felt like there was a Generational trauma around water from Jaws that shook people to their core.

Little bit. Little bit. And then so Jurassic Park is my sort of Spielberg creature feature that I grew up with. Jesus Christ. Ben just knocked over a gigantic block. It was so loud. Ben, can we sidebar for a second? What?

You gotta get it together. Do you need some cold plungers or something? The question is, do you need anything? Maybe take the cap off the pen. I'm fine. You have a home run here. We need it. This is the Jaws episode. Do you need some cold plunges or something? Now how long is Jurassic Park is knocked over a giant block Jurassic Park is actually two minutes shorter than jaws

Wild which is surprising when I say that a lot Jurassic Park feels long like that feels like this movie with a lot of Acts and sort of using Jurassic feels longer thanaws. I do I feel the opposite way The thing that's surprising is that they're the same they're about the length They're just a little over two hours each but Jaws is so much more patiently paced it is and has such more kind of like Rhythms like the waves of the ocean. It does. Whereas Jurassic Park is very propulsive. It is, but Jurassic Park has a slow build to mega propulsion.

And is all about the kind of like whatever, sort of capitalist, you know, sort of machinery around this. And Jaws has all those elements. Which Jaws is, as well. In a simpler fashion, that's not really being like thrown at you. Like you can just sort of of engage with it very quickly. And do I like that? Like Jaws?

It's just economy with Jaws, which you admire. Yes. And yet I'm more used to the big... But then you're also like the amount of like hangout movie. It is a big hangout movie with just a couple of sort of... Well, more than a couple. Several exciting sequences. Right. There's no... I haven't seen Jurassic Park in a little while,

but it also kind of feels like the kind of stuff that's in Jaws. When you think about summer blockbusters, the fact that there's just a moment where they like, have a glass of whiskey and they say like, you wanna get drunk and fool around. Yeah. Like that probably wouldn't,

is that's not in Jurassic Park, because it feels like that would get skipped over. Yes. In the future. I agree. Which I- Jurassic Park is making the same decision Jaws makes, the wise decision of like,

we don't need a movie star. No. We need like good, interesting, you know, theespians, I said, character actor-y guys. Right. I mean, it's very obvious to compare those two movies. It's just, we watch them back to back. Yes.

And in terms of reporting. But also, I mean, and I make this point in the Jurassic episode coming out fucking two and a half years from now, but they both have this sort of like id-ego-super-ego thing with their main trio. Which I don't, this is not the first thing to do that, you know? I think that's so much the success of like the original Star Trek and everything. But this thing of like cast three interesting actors who are not the types

of guys you expect to put in something like this. And then have them basically represent the contradictory and complimentary sides of a psyche in addressing a problem that feels massive. Yeah. Just leave. No, no, stay, stay, stay. No, I'm saying like, in Martha's Vengeance, just get out of there. That's my response.

Just take the summer off. Tim's burning to say something. Yeah, go ahead. Well, no, I think that's a great read, but I mean, I think the first thing that... I was like, is this a good time to talk about Roy Scheider? Yeah. As a movie star? Like, as a, because...

If you want to. I mean, like, we can build to Roy if you want. Here are two previous Roy Scheider episodes. Last Embrace. Sure. Which he's good in, in my memory. He is. And is a somewhat forgotten Jonathan Demme movie, but is kind of, in a lot of ways, very emblematic of a lot of Roy Scheider's post-Jaws career. What a Roy Scheider movie was. The kind of classic Roy a lot of ways, very emblematic of a lot of Roy Scheider's post-Jaws career. Whatever Roy Scheider movie was. Right, the kind of classic Roy Scheider thriller.

Somewhat thinky, dark thriller. Yeah, that he kind of owned that lane. It was good. And then all that jazz. Well, that's just sort of like a, that same year as Last Embraced, that's a big totemic performance. And I think it's his best performance and is such a surprising casting. It would be almost anyone's best performance.

How did this work? Right. Right. But no, this is fascinating. It is so weird that Roy Scheider is the star, the sensible star of Jaws. Yes, and I also, for as many huge and unbelievable things that he's done, and I'm such a huge Roy Scheider fan...

Me too. ...that every time I see that he's the lead of it, it is like, why wasn't this man the biggest movie star and there was a part of it But that's the other thing it's not like his legacy is he was the star of jaws and he fucked it up like it's not like Oh, he didn't become a movie star because something went wrong you look and you're like He was above the title the lead in movies for like 15 consecutive years Yes, but certainly Robert Shaw is dead within three years of this movie coming out and Richard Dreyfuss kind of has the career

you may be expected Roy Scheider would have had as a post-Shaw's bump. For a bit. Well, I wonder, and watching the things that Roy Scheider does, I wonder if a part of that is he plays the movie he is in rather than trying to bring a star persona to it. And I think that there is maybe that's something of why of like,

he doesn't make the movie about him. He's like, how do I fit in to make this movie better while also using the things that are sort of naturally magnetic about his own personality? I just want to pause on Shider just because I feel like we should discuss that he wasn't the first choice. Well, I just feel like let's have more Scheider discussion when we're in the dossier. A side of Scheider later.

Exactly. But I do love Roy Scheider, obviously. I heard you guys got Regal to sponsor the side of Scheider. Yeah, Regal actually, we switched them over to that. And a lot of episodes, it's just gonna be dormant. Yeah. We're asking how Regal is suing us Yeah, obviously, this is Roy Scheider second best aquatic sort of thing after a sea quest DSV

But to that point was produced by Spielberg. Was it not I believe so I want to seem to like Spielberg doing a favor for Roy Scheider where it's like, you know what? I'm gonna give you incredible syndication money. Right, I mean, I think probably didn't turn out to be, but that was the hope. That was the hope. Yes. And that was also, right, in the 90s, it's like,

you know what, Roy, you've become the and guy on a TV show. Like, that's what you can do. But versus, like, you know, it's just interesting that by the 90s, Roy Scheider was not at living legend status. And I think even when he passed away and he kept working until his death There was the sort of feeling of like, oh right Roy Scheider's still alive And you're like this guy's in like four of the most important movies ever made Yes, like maybe we should save this for side of Scheider, but yes side of Scheider

But but yes, you're a hundred percent right that he didn't sort of have that sort of late career up on a pedestal. This is one of our best movie stars we've ever had and I feel like we need to start putting our arms around the fact that that is true. I think he is very, very beloved by our generation of cinephile and I think for the reason you just so specifically and eloquently for the reason you just so specifically and eloquently laid out. I mean, there was the fucking Nighthawk trivia, which is great, for my mind, the best movie trivia here in Brooklyn, went last year at the Halloween installment,

and they did a costume contest, and there was a group of five shyters that were all perfectly dressed, and the audience was just kind of like bowled over. But they got it. And it wasn't just the costumes were good, but it, seeing five people dressed as different versions of Roy Scheider next to each other, you're like, God, his career was fucking incredible. So there's a lot of French connection, Jaws, Sorcerer, what, 2010 and all that jazz.

What was the fuck? Maybe, maybe that's what it was. Maybe it was four. Did somebody try to throw in like some seven ups or something? Fucking weird. Yeah, maybe that's what it was maybe somebody try to throw in like some seven ups or something Fucking weirdly there was someone dressed as Orlando Jones the seven up guy Make seven up yours new. I was dressed up as cool spot, but that's but I do think it's that thing of like if you just Narrow the things down you're like incredible and then you're like the sort of forgotten B Movies of Roy Scheider are the exact kind of thing we all bemoan don't happen today. Right, you watch any of those and you're like,

well, this rocks. Yeah. So Jaws, yeah, so I think I watched this movie when I was about 10 or 11 on VHS. Okay. It was like at a house I was staying in, I watched it. And I remember finding it scary. Sure.

And then as, yes, and then as I loop back around to like now I understand more things about Steven Spielberg in movies, you know, I watched this probably again as a teen, later teenager, and I sort of developed that opinion of like, well, right, it's just so pure and impressive. And you know, this is the kind of stripped down thing that even he can't achieve anymore. And then I've seen it like a couple times since then. And every time I watched it, I have that reaction Yeah, yeah, this is very impressive. Yeah, but it's not like people are obsessed with jaws in a way that I probably can't be yes

No, that's that's why rocks you but I've never seen any of the sequels a perfect masterpiece me neither I believe I was just at like a dinner party in the neighborhood a couple weeks ago We were playing like one of those word association games And I think guys I don't want to fucking brag. I think it's called Clover. Okay. Where you have like these two things together. You have to find a common word and then like the other team gets the cards

and they have to put the cards together using the clues from the common word. And one of the common words was Jaws 2, and it was like Fish Child, which is apparently a thing in the later movies. It's a... I believe in Jaws... One of them basically implies that the son or mother of Jaws is mad about what happened to Jaws. Yes. Right. It tries to imply an emotional...

Well, that's this time it's personal. One of the greatest taglines of all time. For a movie that sucks. Right. Because of the greatest taglines of all time. For a movie that sucks. Right. Because two is just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water. Which is also a good tagline. All of the Jaws taglines are incredible.

It's fascinating for how much the other three movies are kind of like, gentlemen's agreement, we all will ignore them, unless we just want to revel in trash. That all four have like totemic perfect taglines. Can you tell me what 3Ds is? That's what I'm trying to remember. The 3Ds is the least impressive. The Revenge is, this time, is personal.

It's something like Terror in a New Dimension. It's, uh, the third dimension is Terror. I do think that's just not bad. That's pretty good. And I think, I do think 3D movies, when they had their big surge in the 2010s, were often doing taglines riffing on that well It's in the same era as Friday the 13th part 3 which had the tagline a new dimension in terror and yeah

Amity Phil 3d which I like this tagline Warning in this movie you are the victim that which is a good tagline Although it sort of also applies like this movie is so bad. It will think to my yes Well jaws jaws, but yes I want to say equals mostly become the the family of jaws hunting down the family of Brody, right? Yes So one thing that every time I watch I understand what you're saying when you're like, this isn't my movie But every time I watch it, I am like, oh, this should be everybody's movie.

Sure, and you're right. It should be. It is shocking, even last night, how remembering how horrifying most of these, how horrifying and still truly scary these moments are, like the one in the pond where the guy gets his leg bitten off. Like, we watched this with our kids a couple summers ago in that mindset of like, oh, we haven't seen Jaws in a while. We'll watch it with the family. And when Shog gets eaten,

our young children turned to look at us in this way of, how could you do this to us? They both started sobbing. How could you do this to us? This is too much. They both started sobbing. One of them ran upstairs and hid under the covers and the other one put all the pillows from the couch on top of them. It is still incredibly affecting and horrifying.

What's fascinating about it too is, there is like no viscera. There is a lot of blood. There's blood, there's liquid. But like, you're like, the guy's clearly, there's liquid. But like you're like the guys clearly got blood capsules in his mouth that he like activates and then starts spitting blood and then there's a lot of blood everywhere on the boat that's getting mushed in with the water so it's just kind of red water everywhere but

like the for the the viscerality of the moment yeah it's easy in your mind's eye to be like and then you see him ripped in half and his intestines are spinning around or whatever. It is so much more impactful than any kill like that. Yeah. Well, it's also like, it's intense and it's crazy and Shaw like nails it so hard and it's scary, but then it's also like, you know,

the moment where you are most of all, if you settle down, like, oh right, this is clearly like this fucking giant puppet they could barely use that's sort of going like, ah. Not only that, the only shot in the movie where I think the shark. It's like the Ed Wood scene where, you know, Martin Landau is like, putting the tentacles around himself going like,

oh no, like it's much better than that, but like you can see Shaw is like, I'm gonna have to fucking make this work. For how notoriously the shark didn't work, the only shot where I think the shark looks bad is in that sequence. Where it lands on the boat and you're like, you can tell like, this is not an organic thing.

Right, yes. But I will also say- But that makes it scary in a weird way. Agreed, his performance of how much he doesn't wanna get eaten by the shark, and I know that this seems reductive it That his performance of that moment is so good and so his he is so terrified And after everything that you've heard you can't believe it's going that way

It's so it's still so effective that I wasn't even thinking about looking for the shark network Yeah, no, go ahead. and then... Every time I watch this, I'm like, how did Sean not win the Oscar? And then I remember, fuck, he wasn't even nominated. And it's some Mandela effect thing of like, how is that possible? History must have been rewritten at some point. Snubbed by the Oscars. He is my winner for best supporting actor though.

It feels like a slam dunk. This might be... Is this... Because again, this is like a film history blind spot for me. Uh-huh. To me, watching him in this, this feels like one of the best film performances that has ever been. Am I overrating this? Let me give you the five nominees.

Okay. They're not bad, but they're weird, I would say. George Burns won for The Sunshine Boys. Of course, we recently talked about George Burns on Going in Style. Yes. Brad Durif was the nominee from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I feel like there's various people in the ensemble, obviously, who are impressive. He is the, you know, maybe the standout.

Burgess Meredith in The Day of the Locust, kind of an awesome night. I've never seen it. I probably would love that movie. We love Burgess. Oh, I love Burgess. Legendary stickman. Chris Sarandon in Dog Day Afternoon, another movie where you're kind of like,

multitude of options here. I was gonna say. Wait, it wasn't... John Cazale, yeah. Or Durning. Who are both amazing. But I think it was the sort of like issue point of, oh, this performance brings like respect to the trans community

at a time where that was not done. Pushed him over the edge. But I would certainly nominate Cazale or Durning over him. brings, like, respect to the trans community at a time where that was not done. Yeah. Push him over the edge. But I would certainly nominate Kazaller-Durning over him. Jack Warned in Shampoo, who, like, I'm never gonna be mad at a Jack Warden performance getting nominated.

I don't have him nominated. I have, right, Robert Shaw, John Kazali, Danny DeVito, and Brad Durif from Cuckoo's Nest, and then Keith Carradine from Nashville, a performance I love. And Nashville's another movie where you're like, there's a bunch of performances there. So I would nominate Henry Gibson for Nashville.

Sure, another great performance. I would nominate Cazale, I would nominate fucking Shaw and I'd give him the win, yeah. I have Shaw winning. Yeah. Am I generally overrating the historical significance? No, I would say performance. No, you're not, the thing with Jaws. Jaws was snubbed by the Oscars.

I mean, it got a Best Picture nomination and three Tech Noms. It won all three technical awards. Spielberg was snubbed. There was a very obvious, like, no, no, New Hollywood is happening right now. We are not indulging this commercial stuff, this monster movie, this sort of elevated monster movie, but that's all that is. The five nominees for Best Picture, it is one of the most outstanding fields. One flew over the cuckoo's nest, Barry Lyndon, monster movie, this like sort of elevated monster movie, but that's all that is. The five nominees for best picture,

it is one of the most outstanding fields. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Barry Lyndon, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws, and Nashville. Yeah, I mean, it's like, yeah. That's like a flooring, like, where you're looking at that and you're like, the worst movie nominated is One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Yeah, right. A movie that I think is good.

Like, it's not, I don't think that movie has the same staying power as the other four, and obviously it one best picture. Here's why I find it surprising. For everything you're saying, it is like an era where people are getting nominations for Irwin Allen films. Yeah, sure. You know?

You have fucking like Airport and Towering Inferno and fucking Poseidon Adventure acting nominations it's not like they're beyond this I also think he's like borderline at legend status at this point obviously George has 50 years on him he's not a legend but he's a very respected British actor and writer likes a bit of a tipple sure they obviously no one could have predicted that he'd be dead within three years, and that in retrospect they definitely should have given him this. But this is also coming, the two years prior to this are The Sting and Pelham 123.

The guys on a fucking heater run. But like, obviously The Sting, he's great in that. But, yes. We've been getting into caper movies in the house, like, so I showed... We have a thing where we do like pop a movie nights David this is something you're able to look forward to nice. It was really nice It's like where I pick a movie that they would never pick right and then ultimately they end up loving it every other week is rad Every just every week. It's rad. Hey guys, we're doing this again. My guy loves a rad so

But recently we've sort of, we've gotten into like, I want to introduce them to caper movies. So we started with The Sting, and they did enjoy it. I do think pacing-wise... The Sting's pretty boring. No offense. I mean, like, I love it, and I do think it's something that they'll come back to appreciate. You have to be a dork like us watching it with a sense of context.

It's like a fun dad movie, but I remember the first time I saw this thing as a teenager with that kind of setup of like, damn, this was like a huge fucking movie. And people being like, this movie's so much fun. And you're like, okay, yeah, that's fine. They definitely were into, the next one we watched was Ocean's Eleven. So like getting some...

It's a film with a more modern storytelling. A more modern storytelling. A more modern storytelling. But it is really funny watching those kind of movies with kids that age because they are like, wait, is that true? Wait, are they really not friends now? Sure.

Wait, is this a part of the thing? Like, you know what I'm just watching? The cons, they're like, oh shit, they got me. Like... Pelham 123 was, I think, a modest hit. Sure. But that movie's cult reputation grew in later years. He's so good.

I'm just saying. He's so good. His career was like... No, he is. His great career. Yes. Sometimes you have that thing where you're like, why'd this person win for this? And you step back and you're like, oh, the four years leading up to this performance,

the guy got kind of undeniable or he was overdue or whatever it was. Shaw was kind of perfectly positioned in every way other than I think you're right. It was like the level of success of Jaws kind of scared them. We don't need to give this awards. We have other things to bestow awards on. We are currently in this phase where we are really recognizing like challenging Hollywood productions and Jaws is not one of them. I don't wanna- Spielberg famously was snubbed for Fellini.

Have you seen this video, Tim? We can talk about it in the dossier, but Spielberg had a camera on him when the nominations were announced assuming he was about to get an Oscar nomination. And so there is footage of him going, I mean, you can see it's on YouTube, right? It's widely available. They realize it's not happening. He's like, they fellini, they gave it to Fellini. Fellini is the sort of-

I got beaten by Fellini is what he keeps saying. For Amar Cord was the surprise fifth nominee and director. Otherwise, it's Milos Forman, Stanley Kubrick, Stidli Lumet and Robert Altman. I think everyone was predicting that he was the fifth and those four were locked What is the sense of how he's saying it does it make him look? To save face. He's like wearing jaws merch He's in his home that has like a pac-man cabinet like it's clear like this overgrown child Just made the biggest hit movie and now lives in a toy palace

And is his own biggest fan and is like feeling his shit And he's surrounded by friends who are hyping him up and I believe the video starts with them being like we're here with Steven Spielberg Who's about to get his first Oscar nomination? He's 29 years old. Yes Look the Steven Spielberg story Let's I'm opening the does he goes from being kind of shocked and mock outrage to then at some point settling and being like You know what if I'm gonna get beaten Fellini is and then he's sort of like it got on her best picture It is crazy like in real time you see you're getting a little humbled cool, but he starts out hot and just it's

1976 so like putting a camera on you. It's not like people now where it's like yeah sure turn your iPhone on right It's like someone to to have a fucking camera. It's a big performance. Anyway. There's three point lighting. I don't wanna move the Shawshank up in the, I don't know, this is where we talk about Robert Shaw. Oh, Robert Shaw.

No, wait, all right, you relax. Okay. Giving us all these actor sec, we're gonna get to Shaw in a second. And when are we gonna get dry fussy? Oh, it's not, let's just not. You don't wanna put your whole full dry fussy into it to Sean. And when are we gonna get dry fussy? No, let's not. You don't wanna put your whole full dry fussy into it? I'll tell you who puts his whole dry fussy into things.

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that I need to see a big old wet shark boy attack dumb teens. And that's exactly what I got. And also it was a reminder of how cool the ocean is as far as ecosystems go. Something that's been bringing me comfort during this whole crisis is I just think about how right now there's an octopus

just doing some fluttery moves or Stingray is just chilling at the bottom of the ocean. It's very succinct a voice. I would say whoever wrote this might be our finest living film critic. Just wanted to, so Ben, you first saw Jaws in early COVID, it seems. That's true.

Because you logged in on Letterboxd. You had like two weeks where you're like, I'm gonna log like America's finest poetry on Letterboxd. And then you clearly were like, all right, enough of that, stop doing it. Yeah, I pretty much lost interest. You did briefly war in the ring to actually become the poet laureate of America.

Yeah. I don't know. I should have maybe stuck with it. But I did see it for the first time, and I was totally shocked by how effective it was and how much it continues to just be like an like incredible film that like is scary. What about stingrays fluttering at the bottom of the ocean though? Thinking about it right now.

Pretty cool. I feel like the is the octopus fluttering? Yeah, the octopus is fluttering. The octopus is fluttering. Stingrays flutter too. They got that kind of like wavy thing. Oh yeah. On the very edges.

They, they did a 3d remaster of this that I thought was very expertly done and I said this about or I will say this about Jurassic Park as well the two earlier Spielberg movies that have been post-converted to 3D. That unsurprisingly Spielberg's shooting style and filmmaking rhythms are very well suited for 3D more so than most filmmakers who try to intentionally make 3D movies and watching it in 3D in a theater for the first time, never having seen it on a screen, did help sort of like activate Jaws for me a little,

of making it feel new and experiential and place me a little into like what it would feel like to see Jaws for the first time, even though it was in some weird new version. But that re-release I think happened in 2021. I want to say it was summer 2021. They put Jaws and ET both back in theaters when they were like, we don't really have many summer blockbusters. 2022. Okay. But COVID was recent enough. And Ben, you were watching this early lockdown. I do

find in a lot of ways, I don't know, and I'm not looking forward to seeing people try, any movie will ever actually capture the energy of the COVID crisis the way that Jaws does. I think the whole fucking story of reopening the beach and the mayor and the pressures and the concerns, seeing in 2022, I was like, holy fucking shit. The amount of stuff this movie gets right about how people react in situations like this still 50 years later feels dead on. Especially the moment where it's not just the mayor saying we've got to stay open.

This is the economy. Yes. When he goes up to the person that works for him and is like, why aren't you in the water? And that person has to go get in the water when the mayor himself is not going to get in the water. That was, I think, the moment where I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you on that one. Yeah.

Steven Spielberg's debut film was called The Sugarland Express. It was well received by critics, did well at the Cannes Film Festival, felt just the one. Pauline Kael put her chips down on him very quickly. But it didn't really make a lot of money, and it didn't really sort of alter his career in any particular way.

But so he wants to make, it's interesting, I did not know this, the next movie he wanted to make after Sugar Land was The Taking of Pelham 123. Good taking, JJ. And United Artists, Universal Artists, sorry, called the film director proof and went with Joseph Sargent. Given Joseph Sargent's career,

which is kind of workman-like, they kind of were right. Like, that's one of my favorite movies of all time, and I've never been kind of like, and it's because of Joseph Sargent. Like, even though he did everything right, but it's really just a perfect concept, perfectly executed, perfect cast.

But Joseph Sargent's one of those classic, if you give him all the right elements, he will nail it. Which isn't to say that the movie directed itself Yeah, but you're like he's probably not a guy who can make something out of anything Yeah, but like given a slam dunk script in the perfect cast and whatever. Yeah so then another movie he wants to work on is a MacArthur what is that about the general MacArthur, oh, I see. Wow. He gets replaced on that project. Did that project actually happen?

By this, yeah, it did with Gregory Peck. Was also directed by Joseph Sargent. So he's just being like boxed out of everything by... Fucking Joseph Sargent. I got Sargent! I got Sargented! He does have a movie called Watch the Skies that he's written, that he signs a development deal on. Obviously that's going to become Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

We'll deal with that later, but that's like a script he's been nurturing. We are going to do an episode on that? We're planning on it. Patreon? Yeah, yeah, we'll throw it on Patreon. By the way, ET's going to Patreon. Yeah, ET's getting tagged onto our Twin Peaks Season 2 episode. Just on the back of that, if you want to listen.

We're joking, all these are managers. I love your work. I love your work so much. And you know that I am very complimentary of everything that you do, and I listen every week, and I love watching alone. What is it? I've never been so happy that something was put on Patreon than the second series, the second season of it. Not everyone agrees with you, but that's great.

Yeah. So, he's cutting Sugarland Express. Zanuck and Brown, the producers of that movie, are throwing him scripts and he's like, I don't know, nothing's really sparking for me. And when he meets with him, he sees the manuscript for Jaws. Mm-hmm. He likes the title.

It's a good title. I will say it He likes the title. It's a good title. I will say it's a good title. It is a good title. It's a really good title. He says he basically stole the book, read it over the weekend and came back and was like, I wish to do Jaws. And they were like, look, we'd love that. But the agent who sold it to us has a director as part of like a package deal.

And that director was Joseph Sargent? No. There was the initial hope that it was going to be Stanley Kramer, who's obviously a big director at the time. John Sturgis, the man who made Magnificent Seven and The Green Escape. But the director who was actually attached was called Dick Richards, who had made the Culpepper Cattle Company. Not like a no offense to Dick Richards, but not a well remembered guy.

Rich Dickards. And apparently, I had to say, it's not an interesting choke, but it had to be said. They had a lunch with Dick Richards and Peter Benchley, who wrote the book Jaws. And Richards kept referring to the monster at the center of the movie as a whale. And Benchley said, for God's sake, it's a fucking shark after he did this three times. And they had to pull him out of the package deal, which I think was, you know, whatever, they had to maneuver that. And then they go back to Spielberg. and they're like, Jaws is now available to you. Jaws. Jaws.

And Universal's a little scared because Steven Spielberg's a young man. Yeah. They probably are like, we just need some sort of like hired hand guy who's a steady guy who's done a lot of productions. But let's also call out. It's a bit of a risk. But this is also like basically the earliest days of film school. There are not many people who know how to direct movies. Like yeah, that's true. This guy has like a prodigious amount of talent that is kind of immediately undeniable when you watch his early TV work.

Where like if you watch that you're just like this guy knows where to put the camera. I guess he's on the list of 40 people We know who can make a movie. Yes, but there is less competition for these positions There is more of an old boys club and the feeling of studios want to hire these old steady hands, right? Sort of he's fighting against his age, but he's but he's also he's hot stuff. He knows he's hot stuff Yeah, he also if I'm financing that movie You're throwing a lot of money at a guy who wears like cutoff jean shorts a lot. And that would make me nervous.

But I think people can look at any footage he's shot, and this is what the studios are doing, and going like, this guy undeniably has it figured out. Spielberg starts to feel a little shaky. He's like, wait a second, I made Duel. Jaws also has like four letters in it. It's also about this kind of like unseen monster that's just right, you know, like this...

He's worried about repeating his schtick. So he reads the book, you know, he's looking through the book, and he's like, I never really liked the first two acts too much. I really loved them on the boat, the last 120 pages. Like them on the hunt in the last 120 pages, like them on the hunt in the sea, the extended drama between them. And so as they're working on the script, Benchley wrote several drafts and then they start to bring in other people. He's like, can we like expand that? That's right. And like that's what as you're saying, like it's

half the movie, essentially. Right. Because I mean, the middle act, I assume I've not read the book. Have either of you read the book? I read the book years ago. There's like a whole thing where there's an affair, there's a cucking situation. I'm saying like it feels like he took out all the middle stuff that I hear people describe that is like weird interpersonal drama between the guys. Yes. That I'm like yeah no one's showing up for that. Spielberg's like they should just be friends. Yeah. There's already in the book is that- There's already enough in the attention from them having different personalities.

Right. They don't need to bone each other's wives. In the book, only Brody survives. Well, there is a little bit of a moment that might allude to that, and that Dreyfus just comes over and is like, hey, is anybody eating this? And he just like gets in.

Right. You know what I mean? He cucks that lunch. He kinda cucks the lunch or whatever. He cucks the lunch. So maybe that was intentional. There's a lunch cucking. Yeah. But this is Spielberg master of economic storytelling. You can see that and assume how this guy would treat his friends' wives.

Nonetheless, Spielberg continues to have cold feet. He's worried of this is a quote from Peter Gottlieb, who's one of the writers. Carl Gottlieb. Sorry, Carl Gottlieb, who came in later and sort of made it funnier, essentially, where he apparently said, who's one of the writers. Carl Gottlieb. Sorry, Carl Gottlieb, who came in later and like sort of made it funnier, essentially, where he apparently said who wants to be known as a shark and truck director. He tried to leave at one point. Better than a boss and truck director. Exactly. Yeah.

Tried to leave at one point to shoot Lucky Lady, which is a film that, you know, happened. Have you heard of Lucky Lady? I know that title. What is it? It's like a dramedy, like a throwback prohibition movie with Burt Reynolds and Gene Hackman and Liza Minnelli Okay, and it's famous for George Lucas Visited the set and was so impressed by how it was run It was shot in England that he hired a lot of people who worked on it to work on Star Wars

Wild he was kind of like this kind of said I want to run Can we just point out that that's why Star Wars was made in Britain you said that the people that are starring in that movie are Bert Reynolds, Gene Hackman and Liza Minnelli and you talked about the efficiency of the set. How the fuck That's maybe that's maybe that's part of it. It was sort of like a like a Zen garden. It was just Very quiet serene, efficient. It's a Stanley Donin movie and it was a... Full emotional outburst whatsoever. See where we go.

Anyway, Steven Spielberg made Jaws. He stayed on Jaws. Oh, okay. He did end up directing. Right. I'm going to check my notes that I took. No, I had that, yeah. You had that he made Jaws.

Yeah, I had that he made Jaws. Steven Spielberg. Yeah. Okay. And well, I guess S I'm sort of inferring. Yeah. Steven S. We should maybe well, let's cross reference that. Yeah. David, what do you have there in your notes? Steven Spielberg directed Jaws. Okay. We have to trust it at this point. I call him Steve. Yeah. Okay. The Indianapolis. So Benchley writes the sort of drafts that everyone starts to work off of. Gottlieb is brought in at one point and starts to flesh out the characters more, give it a little more humor. The famous USS Indianapolis speech is largely attributed to John Milius and Robert Shaw

himself. Just to make that kind of more of a monologue. It is fascinating how much that whole generation of film brats speak with such awe of Milius. Where they're like, we all wish we could write like him. And would just go to him with things like this and be like, you need to just crack this one scene for us. Can I just have like a sort of quick Shawshank sidebar? Did, in that moment of like it somehow being accredited to Shaw, does it go into specifics about what he put in?

Was it just a performance? Was it stuff that all was there like, I think he put it in his own language. There was a, right, there was already lines on this. Milius is asked, can you make it more of a speech and he wrote like a very very like many pages long speech and Robert Shaw himself an accomplished writer read it and was like this is too much. This is sort of John Huston II I can't do this. Let me rewrite it and It's his rewrite that is right dial. So it was like a tiny moment originally. Milius blows it up to epic scale.

Shaw makes it a little more natural and stripped down. Oh, yeah. That's amazing. The character of Brody... The film's main character. Right? The Roy Scheider character. The movie opens and closes on him. Police Chief Martin Brody. Charlton Heston supposedly wanted the part.

This is in Charlton Heston's kind of like genre days. Spielberg thinks he's a little too overwhelming and he desperately wants Robert Duvall. Would have unbalanced the movie. Duvall is interesting. He makes perfect sense in that same sort of area is Scheider. I think, yes. Not a great actor who's not as overwhelming as a sort of face. Right. At that time, as I love to say,

considered Hollywood's number one, number two. And Spielberg doesn't want... Heston or Scheider? Duvall. Duvall was, okay. Had a real complex about, I'm always the second guy. They never let me play the lead. Right. Things like Godfather Network,

uh, Parklubs Noway. But I couldn't be more valued as the guy next to the explosive guy. Yeah. Yeah. Spielberg doesn't want Scheider because he's like, this is a cop, he's just gonna do the tough guy thing from French Connection. I don't want that. Now Spielberg... Scheider's coming off an Oscar nomination in French Connection, such like another seismic

movie. Definitely. Spielberg in his dotage, not his dotage, because he's still kicking like crazy and making great movies, but later on, says that that's not true and oh, he ran into Roy Scheider at a party and Roy Scheider was feeling down because he couldn't get a good part and he was like, he'd be perfect for Jaws. So I don't know if you want to believe on this. For Quint, they wanted Lee Marvin.

Makes perfect sense as well. Also think it would have unbalanced the movie. I think a little too big. Then they want Sterling Hayden, who makes a lot of sense. Totally. You know, they're going to, you know, real pillars. Sterling Hayden in like, long goodbye mode. Guys who could play like Captain Ahab, right? Yes. Do you buy... He wasn't able to do the role for some scheduling reasons?

Do you buy that Lee Marvin has like what has been on a boat? Well, you're saying that because he's such a horse guy such a Western guy. Yeah. Well, no, I just I guess I'm thinking of like Lee Marvin in point blank. I think this guy I buy that Lee Marvin has been on a movie boat Yeah, you know like Heston Lee Marvin. There's a version of this movie. That is like not to be rude, but like sergeant directing Marvin and Heston and you're like it's probably a movie that we think rules Yeah, right, but it's more of like a ha ha ha, look at this. These guys all chew

and scenery. This is fun. Right. It's it's the kind of Tim Simon's dictated all caps screaming text version of the movie that is still, you know, disgust to that everybody loves everyone so happy it's happening. Yes. Robert Shaw comes from Zanuck and Brown who had produced the sting producing this movie. And Spielberg was kind of like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. Another really hard thing to try to explain to kids is like the inner workings of like off track betting. When you're watching The Sting, they're like, okay, wait a minute. So like, what does win place and show mean? And like trying to get them into the particulars

of like the delay of the tape and you know what I mean? Multiple languages in that film. Yes, anyway. But Shaw has Oscar nomination under his belt. He has won for all seasons of the movie he's amazing in. And he's also kind of like the Irish shepherd of his time where it's like here's this guy who's just like credibility character actor, but also great writer.

Great dramatic person. Right. Likes a bit of a temple. Likes a bit... Wait, he likes a bit... Is that sourced in the Vossian? For Hooper, John Voight is the first choice. That would be fucking wild. That would be insane.

Yeah, totally different movie. Yeah. And then when he turns it down, Spielberg goes to Jeff Bridges and Timothy Bottoms. He loved The Last Picture Show. I was gonna say, the way the character's written, it feels like he's supposed to be more of this kind of like, the soft hand rich boy thing that is in there.

Yeah, yeah, Bridges makes sense there. But in a form where everyone else is like, this guy's fucking doof. He doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. The magic of the Dreyfus casting is you're like, this guy's absolutely a scientist and he's silly. Yeah. Obviously George Lucas is the one pushing for Dreyfus,

post-American graffiti. And Dreyfus is like, I found the movie, it's the script boring. My character seemed to be just there to give out shark information, but I had no money. That's a weirdly rude thing of Dreyfus to say, which isn't usually his manner.

Right, he says, I gave in, I surrendered, I was a prostitute, yeah. Every fucking Dreyfus quote is like that, where he's like, this movie sucked and they forced me to do it and I made money, ha ha ha. And then at the end, and then he's always like, and the thing I really love to do is insert some piece of shit no one remembers. Like, it's like my real passion project was playing Dick Cheney.

Education of Max Bickford. But then there's that, there's the clip, he's one of the world's greatest assholes. There's that clip of him on the view promoting Vice and they're like, you hadn't done a film in like six years. What pulled you back into playing Dick Cheney? And he was like, money. This movie's dumb. I don't care. I met Richard Dreyfuss once when I was in college. He came to speak on our campus. And I think it was like something to do with the Bush, the Bush Gore election in 2000. And I went up to him afterwards and I said, Hey man, I really liked you and

the goodbye girl. And he just like touched my chest, I think in a very nice, weirdly a very nice way to say, but I think what was behind it was I'm so glad you didn't say jaws. Sure. Right. You know what I mean? Even though it was I'm so glad you didn't say jaws sure right You know what I even though it's like the movie he won the Oscar for at the time sort of forgotten now But yeah, a little better known and at the time a from getting jaws close encounters You know what I don't know what else even probably American Graffiti more. Yeah, mr. Hollins opus Hey, I played that teacher like a fucking absolute pure asshole for the entire fucking movie Really moved me there were some eight-year-olds there that kept calling him. Mr. Holland and

They were like, oh mr. Holland mr. Holland and he did not respond well to that He did not enjoy that even though I was coming from the mouths of children But like talk about right it's Shiders post jaws career versus Dreyfus is post jaws career It's not just that he has a couple more major blockbusters and that he wins an Oscar, the youngest to win Best Actor, a record held for several decades, right? And an Oscar that almost seems like, of course, undeniable. Right. This guy, runaway freight train.

He basically remains a major movie star until the mid-90s. Absolutely. I think he's often known for being a bit of a jerk, but he's, I mean, his 80s are not great, but he has hits. He's above the title studio guy, and he does have hits. There's no question about that.

Yeah. But he didn't, yeah, he didn't, it's, right, he continues to exist as a star, despite kind of not really making a lot of hits anymore. But like, stakeout's a hit. What about Bob's a hit? Stakeout is a solid hit. What about Bob is a solid hit?

Yes. There's stuff like Down and Out in Beverly Hills or whatever. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, Mr. Holland's Opus was a hit, wasn't it? At that time, it was kind of like, oh, what a nice comeback. A bit of a passion project for him.

This is great. And then that's basically the end. Like, within like three years, he's like third building the crew. I mean, he has, to me, Krippendorf's Tribe, a movie I'm obsessed with the existence of. That's sort of the end, where it's like, can Richard Dreyfus still lead a movie? Maybe this one. And they're like, okay, that's enough. I did a sort of accidental trilogy watch of culturally insensitive Disney's 90s live-action comedies, which is Man of the House, which is

Chevy Chase and Jonathan Taylor Thomas, and it's all about like a little Indian's like weekend group. And then Jungle to Jungle and Crippendorf's Tribe. You have to do them in that order in ascending insensitivity. Crippendorf is astonishing. Well, Krippendorf is an insane movie. Yes. I'm sorry, what? Well, no, I was just gonna say that we have another Dreyfus connection

in that Richard Dreyfus' brother is the music teacher at my kid's, like, public elementary school. Really? And he has, like, I think he was the... I just had completely forgot about this until you said this was like a passion project. I think his brother in a way was what he based that off of. Yeah. But he's like a very nice man and he has like a sort of

like he's kind of balding but he has long gray hair down to his shoulders. He kind of looks like a music teacher. Yeah. He also wrote the elementary school's like pride song. Okay. And all the kids sing it, and it's really amazing. Sounds a lot like Mr. Largo from The Simpsons. That's the thing. Does Mr. Largo also own a sort of country club?

Because I think his name is, it's not Ben. What is Richard Dreyfuss' brother's name? Ben is his son. What would I know the name of Richard Dreyfuss' brother? Ben, what's the name of Richard Dreyfuss' brother's name? Ben is his son. Fuck would I know the name of Richard Dreyfuss' brother. Ben, what's the name of Richard Dreyfuss' brother? Uh... Lauren Dreyfuss. Okay.

It's Lauren? Well, this seems to be maybe another Dreyfuss. Because I don't know. Well, this Dreyfuss is also the co-owner of like a sort of small country club in La Canyada, California. Wild. Which has like a pool. It's actually where my kids learned how to

swim. Cause it's like, it's not expensive to get like a pool membership and we don't have a pool or really access to one. So that's where my kids learned to swim. Yeah. And he's kind of always around there just looking kind of like Richard Dreyfuss. Apparently Richard Dreyfuss also doesn't like to do ADR and voiceover work. So if they're like, hey, we need you to do this, he's like, I don't want to do it, and he just sends his brother. This guy teaches music, owns a country club, and does his brother's ADR. Like, what a fucking life. Wild. I'm trying to find this guy's name I can't.

I'm surprised it even took that long for him to land on Dreyfus. I mean, I know we'll get to it, but infamously, Spielberg was very resistant to casting Dreyfus in Close Encounters. It felt for a while Dreyfus was constantly needing to convince people to hire him. Why was that the case in... after working with him in... Hmm, I wonder. I think he's difficult, and I feel...

I'm trying to remember who it was, but he had a more... I mean, this is the thing. Richard Dreyfus was a very unconventional leading man. He was, and he looks older than he is, and he's got this sort of... But now I'm just sort of like, that was such a look in the 70s, and it's kind of the Dreyfus look. Well, now, of course, you were like, yeah,

movies have guys like that in them, especially in roles like this. I do think to have someone who was that nebushy, you know, was sort of like... And not be in one scene of the movie. So perfect for the energy of this movie, obviously. And it is a performance that does kind of change things. Like, it becomes one of those archetypal... Yeah, I mean, especially, right, because the movie,

it's like, when you're with Quinn, Brody, you're like, yes, okay, I understand this movie. This is the kind of bulletheaded guy who's trying to, like, cut through this crisis and best he can and Scheider feels like an upstanding guy. And then Shaw, you're like, yeah, I get that. That's like a fucking sea dog. Great, cool. I get that guy.

And Dreyfus, you're like, oh, huh. This is like an element I don't think about when it comes to, like, you know, monster hunting on the water. Right. Right, that you would have this kind of like, right, squirrely guy. This weirdly confident, blue-blooded, marine biologist wearing a fucking Canadian tuxedo.

Who also, like, I do like the subplot of him being a little bit embarrassed of his background. Right, right, right. He wants to be a salty dog. Right. Which I think if you cast someone like Jeff Bridges, little bit embarrassed of his background. Right, right, right. He wants to be a salty dog. Right, which I think if you cast someone like Jeff Bridges, it's like that's how he reads at first, and the whole movie is him going,

I'm dying for these guys to take me seriously. Whereas with him, it's almost like a secret he can successfully suppress, but once he knows he's so self-conscious about it. I mean, I always think about there's the stories of how much Shaw would antagonize Dreyfus, and the line that rings in my head constantly is when they were in the boat before take, Shaw would go,

remember, mind your mannerisms, Dreyfus. Oh, Jesus. Mind your mannerisms. And there is this balance of like, yes, he's a very mannered actor. It works in this movie. You need him to balance out the trifecta of the three of them,

but there is a juice that comes from the feeling that Shaw is genuinely fairly annoyed by him as a person, and Dreyfus is on edge trying to win him over. I mean, in a way you can almost be like, yeah, well, how did Richard Dreyfuss end up being a dick? It's like, because Robert Shaw psychologically broke him. I don't know. He won't stop minding his mannerisms.

Look, regarding the production of Jaws, the highly discussed production of Jaws, I think Apocalypse Now is maybe a movie that's the only more discussed production of Jaws. I think Apocalypse Now is maybe a movie that's the only more discussed production. Sure, but let's also say, like, a year ago, there was a Broadway play... Yes, not a very good one, I think. Sure.

Called The Shark is Broken. Written and performed by Robert Shaw's son, who looks exactly like him. Does look like him. That's a three-hander of the three of them in the boat. The reason I think it's not a very good play, right, is it's mostly just them explaining the production of Jaws and sounding kind of dramatically boring.

Which is one of the most discussed things ever. I feel like people forget that it was obviously shot on Martha's Vineyard, pretty much on location. It started way earlier than it was supposed to because the studio was afraid of an actor strike, which never materialized. So they were trying to get ahead of that. So Spielberg hadn't really done any preparation.

Started about two months early. And there was a lot of pressure. Spielberg is 26 years old, basically looks younger. He's being put in charge of basically the first movie to like shoot on open water ever. Like, you know, it's like this, you're doing a water movie, you shoot in a tank. But Spielberg is like, no.

A movie that basically creates the saying of, never shoot on water. Exactly. Spielberg is getting backed up by his studio, right? Like, it's not like he's fighting with them exactly, but his biggest idea for this movie is we should shoot on the real sea because I want, you know, that sense visually

of like they're actually out in the open ocean. And it works, but obviously it was a nightmare for the production. I, uh, one of the, again, one of the things that when you go back and you watch it, you're like, yeah, this is perfect. I can't believe how good it is. Is that I still am watching it now.

And I'm not sure how they did it. I'm not sure how they did the shark. I'm not sure how they did it. I'm not sure how they did the shark. I'm not sure how they, how did they get those three barrels to get sucked under the water? No fucking idea. That's my thing for how legendary it is the shark didn't work.

And I called out the one shot where I think it kind of falls apart, but not at the expense of the movie, right? Every other shot of the movie, I'm like the shark looks incredible and I cannot believe they got it to do this. I cannot believe in 1975, doing underwater animatronics, that they got it to do any successful movements,

and beyond that, that they got the shot in focus, the perfect framing, the perfect performance. It's not like he's often shooting the shark in total isolation. You know, it's not like insert shots in a tank. It's like insane that they got what they did. The producers of the film had initially thought, which seems insane, that they could use a real shark and use shark trainers. And you perform like some simple stunts that you film and then you use a dummy for other stuff, or miniatures, or close-ups, or whatever.

And after losing the lives of ten consecutive shark trainers, they realize that maybe they should build one instead. As Carl Gottlieb puts it, for all the money and love that the Hollywood can offer, there was no one foolish enough to claim to be able to train a shark. You cannot train a shark. That's not a fucking job position! Of course.

Um, so, Spielberg's like... Not Ben, but now... Okay, Ben's gonna become a shark training Spielberg's like Get me the guy who made the squid in 20,000 leagues under the sea Mm-hmm alright, so they start working on that Ben the sharks would know your respect for water They would see that in you yes, they would be like I also like wet wait He gets it he gets it Ben's gonna become the fucking Owen Grady of sharks He's gonna have a bunch of fucking sharks on jet skis They do

We see you bet they do get some second unit footage of sharks the shark cage stuff Okay, is them trying to pull that off? but I think trying to pull that off. But I think great white sharks are too dangerous. You can't do anything with that. Do you know where I learned that? Where? The movie Jaws. Watching the film Jaws. So they have these mechanical sharks. It's very famous. Again, these three full-scale

25-foot great white shark models. And there's essentially like, it's made out of steel. It's got these flexible joints. There are images you can see of the sort of cross-section. It is astonishing how complex they are, but also complex in a very rudimentary way. There are so many different- They can do side to side. They can move their jaw.

They can go up and down. There's a lot of mechanics inside, but they're all basic hinges and shit. Yeah, exactly. They weighed 2,000 pounds. Oh my god. They were covered in like, you know nylon stretchy polyurethane kind of stuff and they had like sort of a left side shark and a right side shark and Then a dead-on shark I guess like I had sort of three kinds of sharks and this one issue that they had was that When you put start putting them in the salt water

It fucks with them in all kinds of unpredictable ways that none of them suck up I was gonna say like just replicating shark skin I think must be a Herculean task let alone making it in a way that is flexible enough That it can respond to all the mechanisms inside of it. And then the second you put it into fucking water, of course it doesn't work. Basically it's like, it didn't work very well, but there's no one who could have done it better and they did the best they could.

Like it's sort of the upshot. It's not like it's like, ah, the effects guys fucked it up. It's more like this is impossible. It's not an escape from LA situation. Patrick Williams, our buddy, did a very good video of like, you know, the classic filmmaking lore of like, well, they were supposed to shoot the shark a lot and then the shark doesn't work. So then Spielberg has to rethink the whole visual approach and what makes the movie magical that the shark is so often implications. Spielberg said, it goes right from Harryhausen to Hitchcock, right?

Yes. And I think he learns a lot. Like the fact that, as you said, he had less prep time. Everything's going wrong. This is an approach he basically tries to recreate in all of his movies after this of like keep myself on my toes, keep myself fresh. Patrick did this great video of like, what would the movie even have been if they had the shark working?

I guess it's like a more straightforward monster movie with a bunch of awesome like shark kills and stuff, right? Like, that's what it is. But I'm like, even if the shark worked, quote unquote, I don't think any of that footage would have been very good. Probably not. I don't think you could achieve a realistic shark footage. No, and as we're saying, like, Jaws... Bruce. Pulling up onto the boat, eating Robert Shaw is the most sustained, direct,

like, closest to full-body, direct sunlight, extended view you get of the shark doing shit. And it's the one part where the fakeness of the shark starts to show itself, but also, at that point, you've bought into Jaws. And Robert Shaw is selling the shit out of it. If the movie had seven sequences like that, it would not work. I completely agree. It's almost like when they start attaching those flotation devices to the shark, that extended sequence, you never are really seeing from the shark's perspective.

And you're having to do so much work with your imagination to kind of... The barrels are fucking brilliant. But it sounds bad. Yes. Like if I told you, like, hey, we're not going to have the shark. But there'll be some barrels so you'll know where it is. Like that sounds like you've lost your movie. Yes. Sure.

But I think, yeah, cutting to seeing the shark underwater, it maybe would have been not as effective. No. Yeah, no. I think it would. Just to see the barrels going underwater, especially after moving up the Shawshank again, Robert Shaw repeating the like, not with two barrels he can't, not with two.

Like he says that or some version of that line three or four times so that by the time the three barrels go underneath, you're like, oh my god, this is the biggest thing we've ever seen. I mean, it's the kind of like classic, one of the ways in which this film is really influential, but like a movie that teaches you the rules, that gives you the language to understand how to track stuff.

And that makes you feel smart. Because you're like, I'm on the same page as these guys. Obviously, 55 days shoot blew into like 159 days. It was a disaster. Spielberg thought he would never work again. The whole thing was crazy. Did he? No. He retired from filmmaking at the age of 26. And that's that. And I don't know why we from filmmaking at the age of 26. Short series.

Yeah. Well, and that's that. And I don't know why we did his later movies because there weren't any. Yeah. It's a flight of fancy on our part. Obviously, again, this is so discussed, but what you might not know about the John Williams score is that he had temped the movie with John Williams' score from the Robert Altman movie Images.

Yes. Which he found kind of experimental and disturbing. And Williams then is shown the movie with his temp score. I do not know that score. Do you know it at all? Yeah, it's a great score. You're more of an Altman guy. Yeah. Yeah.

Never seen Images. What's that one about? It's psychological horror. It's him doing... Yeah. I get you. It's him doing, yeah, yeah. I get you. Yeah. I get images, I'm getting images confused with, what's the Sandy Dennis one? Cold Day in the Park. Uh-huh.

I have seen it. I was having the same problem. Yes, I have seen this movie. It's kind of. Yeah, it was just in New York. Yay, yay, yay, yay. Right, it's him doing like an internalized kind of Bergman-y psychological thriller. Or even like a Polanski movie.

Yes, Yeah. Williams calls him laughing and says, no, no, no, this is not the score you want. You've made a pirate movie with a scary shark, you need a primal score. And he, and this has been replicated in like every single documentary about John Williams or whatever, just goes dun-dun-dun-dun,

you know, on the piano. And Spielberg starts laughing and is like, you know, essentially like, I didn't pay you for two fucking keys. And he's like, no, this is the theme, it's gonna be good. And Spielberg has said it's 50% of the movie. But also that, I think that was slightly new to have like, specific character theme like that.

Like a musical cue that lets you know immediately, the movie is now in this character's hands and especially for a character that is largely unseen like that The thing I'm always surprised by stupidly every time I rewatch this movie is like how much score there is and how little of it Is that there's how I yeah more classic Williams-y stuff in here You know like three or four other major themes and jaws that repeat that sound like classic fucking William Spielberg shit And even the moments where like the two-note thing that Spielberg is like I I didn't know you for two notes It feels like even when it's that it's much more complicated Yes, the what do you call it that not the portman to the the thing that where everybody kind of collectively thinks something is something different What's that called? hmm

Like like the Shazam and Kazoo Mandela effect Mandela effect like a Mandela effect of the two note thing is that that's the only music the entire right? Yes, or that it is at some point just those two notes, which is never which it never is it's all much more It's there. It's just much more, it's there, it's just much more complicated, and there's a lot more to it filling it out. But there's this very kind of lush Amity Island theme, and there's the sort of like,

the three boys are on the high seas theme. Exactly, some adventure themes, right, yes. It's a good score, one best score. For John Williams. Good job by him. John Williams hit the score, okay. For Jaws? You know what? He did it for John Williams. Good job by him. John Williams hit the score. Okay. Yeah. For Jaws? You know what? He did it for Jaws.

I actually, I did make a few notes about sort of behind the scenes stuff. And he only won for that movie. He has, I believe, five Oscars. Let me double check. They gave him five Oscars for Jaws? Well, what is John Williams' last Oscar? That's the one that people, that's the more challenging question. His last win? Yes, his last win. That's a good question. Can you give me the

decade? 90s. His last win is Jurassic? He didn't even get nominated for Jurassic because he won for Schindler's List. Is that the last win? That's the last one. Okay. That is my guess was gonna be Jumanji. I don't know that he scored. He didn't win an Oscar for Jumanji. Did he do Jumanji?

I can find out for you. My guess is no. That's a double snub. If he didn't win the Oscar for it and didn't do it. And didn't get to do it. James Horner did the score for Jumanji. Ah, yeah. Ah.

Ah, is that, oh, well, that's the James Horner music, right? Yeah. He already of course had won an Oscar for Fiddler on the Roof, which he gets like a scoring adaptation Oscar for, but this is his first real Oscar. He wins again for a movie called Star Wars and again for a movie called ET. Okay. And again for a movie called Schindler's List. Interesting.

Yeah. Wow. Pretty cool behavior from JW. But it is really rude that he has not won for 25 years. Yes and they also I guess I'm assuming they haven't nominated him at all in those 30 years. Oh wait an additional 20 million nominations? He gets nominated four times every year. Ding dong! Hello. Wait you can't say hello the door's not not going to open on its own, David.

Hello. Creek. Wow, I opened it on my own. You know what? I stand corrected. Hello. Who's this? Sheriff Brody.

Oh, okay. Sheriff Brody from Jaws? Amityville, yeah. Right? It's Amity. Amityville is where the horror was. Well, no, there was a horror in Amity. There was a shark that was very scary.

Don't diminish the terror. Amity Island. Right, and so now I actually transferred to Amityville and I think it's gonna be a lot calmer. Okay, okay, just don't go near that one random house. Everything else seems fine. What, the spooky one that I'm patrolling specifically? That kind of looks like it has eyes.

Yeah, listen. Yep. I've had to do some real climate relocations. I went from New York to sort of a Martha's Vineyard-yard type place to now Amityville. It's a new year. It's a new brody. I'm trying to get away from trauma. I think I need to mix up my wardrobe. OK, then that helps me understand which tab I should open.

Thank you very much. I don't even know what you're talking about. I'm just telling you my honest truth. My lived, new year year new chance for new clothes Okay, well listen to me sheriff Hmm, I think everyone needs to try and refresh their liquid quality pieces, but stay on budget. Well, I like that I'm on a I'm on a sort of public servant budget. Absolutely. Yeah, how about quints? Ah, like my friend not like Quint the guy no, no, no, I know. Let me clarify.

There's a different guy I know who is very different than the shark hunter, Quint. And his name is Quince. And he helps people find clothing. I think everyone needs Quince's Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $60. Okay. Yeah, no, that sounds great. I genuinely love Quince. I think I've talked about this on the show before, but I am quince-pilled. I be loading up quince and buying some nice soft shirts and good fitting pants all the time. They've got- I'm a blankie.

I've heard you talk about it. You know, got some active wear, performance tees, tech shorts. They've got, you know, soft shirts that are warm, which I've been really favoring in the winter. And you know, they're priced 50 to 80% less than the similar brands because they partner directly with the top factories. No middlemen. Perfect. And they only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing

practices. No sharks. I don't think there are any sharks involved as far as I can tell. Thank goodness. They do have premium fabrics and finishes for luxury feel. That doesn't include sharks. I don't hear anything shark-esque and what you just said anyway So yeah If you want to upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag you should go to quince.com slash check for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Qui nce dot-com slash check to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince dot-com slash check. And that completes the trilogy,

and this was the one I was avoiding because it was hardest to find the take. It's kind of not really... Impression. Yeah, impression. I don't know. What do you mean by... I don't get it. This guy's vibe is strange. He's talking about himself in a weird way.

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Check to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com Check to start your new year on a healthier note. Look, and if you're looking for kind of a fun way to make this morning routine kind of hit different, maybe put on some algorithm while you're doing it. The film begins with kind of a famously scary sequence. Okay. Are we gonna start talking about the movie? Yes, in which a young woman and a young man canoodle on the beach. Well, you're jumping way ahead.

Okay, I don't know if I'm jumping way ahead. No, because what I like is that it doesn't open with canoodle. It opens with this physical flirtation that's very naturalistic. What you're saying, like, you're dropped into this overlapping dialogue, a very kind of like, it feels almost a little bit documentary like. And then you get into the Spielberg specificity of visual storytelling of how their sort of flirtation happens and caught glances and gesture. One thing that's fun about this whole whole moving shot through that crowd is that you probably could have landed

on any one of those people. And there would have been a little story about them or maybe they would have started running down the beach. This goes back to the episode that you did about West Side Story, or no, sorry, about the fabelmans, when everybody's like, when your reaction to people saying that they were underwhelmed was,

he made a movie about how he wanted to fuck his own mother, like he is in the fucking pocket. One thing that I love about this movie is how fucking horny it is... in these, like, sort of, not throughout, but just these little moments where it's just like, Spielberg's thinking about making out. I feel like as Spielberg gets older and becomes famously kind of unhorny,

people often, and famously just like Treakley, he and others would look back at Jaws and being like, remember how Jaws is kind of horny and hot and a kid fucking explodes in it? And Spielberg now is like, yeah, I would not explode a child on screen anymore. It is crazy that I did that. This is young, juvenile, horny Spielberg in a great way.

But also, look, when we covered the second half of Spielberg's career, many years ago, it was a pre-Fableman's era, how little we knew. And the cultural narrative on Spielberg was like, wonder kid dork who never got over his parents getting divorced and people made much hay of how much the divorce hung over all of his work. But then you see Fabelman's and you're like, the fucking psychosexual dynamics of this are so much more complicated. Yeah.

And now if you like map that onto all of his other films, I think they all become more interesting, especially the early ones. And a thing I was really taken with watching this is like Sugarland Express is like a young dude's movie, right? That is like the film you expect a 20 something like full of him and vinegar like filmmaker to make. Jaws is weirdly like a sad, broken, middle-aged man movie. It becomes that, but not right at the start, right? No, the opening is kind of what you'd expect out of him. But it becomes that thing, right?

And I watch this and I'm just like, how did he have the sort of like emotional intelligence? Obviously cast the right actors, right writers, work the script, whatever, but to like be tapped into this. And you do go back to the fableman's thing of like, right, the fundamental thing with Spielberg was he was basically like pulled into adulthood too early, right? That like his mother brought him inside of a marriage and was like, you hold secrets now, and like, your sense of the grownups in your life has been like, collapsed.

There is a restraint and a maturity to this that seems insane that how old is he? 26? 29, you said? He's 26 when he's making it. He's like 29 for the Oscar nomination. That's wild. It's wild that a 26 year old made this movie with with a lot that has as much restraint and maturity as it does Right and then like you watch this opening which is kind of horny and feels like something a little bit more like a young guy

Me but it also has that Hitchcock thing of like this guy's simultaneously seems really horny and also seems to have a very complicated Relationship with sex. Yes, yes, right, which also makes sense for everything We know about him now. Before we, actually, can I ask a question? My first note was that the DP was Bill Butler? For Jaws. For Jaws. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When did he start? Cause I mean, I guess in my head, I would have assumed that he had always been working with Kaminsky. No, Kaminsky is Schindler's List. That's when it starts. Yes, Spielberg does not move over to him until Schindler's List, but I don't think Spielberg... He did a lot of Slocum movies.

Right, Douglas Slocum is kind of his big guy. The Jaws, Bill Butler, he only worked with the one time, I think, Close Encounters is Vilma Zygmunt. Right, yes. Did Zygmunt do Sugarland as well? Am I wrong? Sugarland was shot by Sigmund, yes. And 1941 is William Fraker, who's another big name at the time.

And then Raiders is Slocum, and ET is Alan Davio. Yeah, he would kind of move around, you know? Do you have any idea why, after the success of this, that he wouldn't have worked with Bill Butler again? I have no idea, but my guess is, you know, like you have any idea why after the success of this that he wouldn't have worked with Bill Butler again I have no idea but my guess you know back then it was like he probably wasn't like picking everyone in with the same kind of Right. There's a little bit of conveyor belt who's available. Bill Butler shot one flew over the cuckoo's nest right famously replaced Haskell Wexler who got fired Or quitter. I can't remember. Um yeah, Bill, that's a big experienced guy,

and maybe it was like, hey, there's a fucking, like there's this story where like Spielberg was like, I wanna use tripods, and Bill Butler and the crew had to be like, you can't shoot with a tripod in the open ocean, your audience was gonna throw up. Cause it's gonna get, and then he was like, no, it'll work, and they had to shoot some footage for him, and he was like, oh, I see, like it's moving too much.

Like, you know, you, it'll work. And they had to shoot some footage for him. And he was like, oh, I see. Like it's moving too much. Like, you know, you, you can't do this. Bill Butler only died in 2023. He was a hundred and one years old. Got hit by a bus. He was not Orson Bean. I just always, I was like, hey, died a hundred and one. How did he die? Oh, he was killed by ninjas. RIP to the great Bill Butler. Can I say in this, in this first sequence of running up and down the beach just while we're

talking about the the photography of it. Yeah, that and I'm going to make this is going to be a very broad swing on a comparison, but just to one of your recent guests, or Kasha Stevenson, or recent who, by the way, you you helped connect to get on that episode. Thank you very much. Oh my god, my pleasure. Because everybody should know who Arkasha is, because she's unbelievable.

And I've never been an Omen person. That's never been like my franchise. Sure, that's not right, yeah. But I thought the first Omen was fucking incredible. And one of the things that I loved about it was that just about every single shot in that movie did not have to be as good as it was. So true.

Like, she fucking put so even to just... The normal Hollywood thing now is to make sure the shots are not very good. Yes, yes. But it's almost... In fact, they seem to be intentionally bad. Yes. And I loved seeing... Yes. ...the amount of thought and planning and...

No wasted image. No wasted image in that movie. And to that same extent, that in this first sequence, you could completely have this whole first sequence work and do it exactly what it needs to do and still be really effective. But also, the shots are fucking incredible.

But it's, this thing, I mean, it's why we jumped on your throat, David, of saying two young people canoodling because it's like these short drama he establishes within like 90 seconds of like there is a specificity and charm to the way he captures their sort of silent courtship and the beginning of it, you know, what feels like this could be the whole movie. We just watch these two people. As you said, we've panned across 40 other people who could have been the leads of the movie. Right. But like Halloween as well. Like any movie where it's like, you're kind of in it

being like, this is the movie I'm watching and then it ends and you're like, oh, I was essentially watching a little prologue. And they don't feel like disposable horror victims. It feels like there's a level of compassion for them. But it's a very horrorlogue. And they don't feel like disposable horror victims. It feels like there's a level of compassion for them. But it's a very horror movie thing. You do also think about though, like Fableman's has the whole fucking sequence of him being hired to make the like beach day video.

Yes. And his weird status of like, you know, shooting the popular kids in a way that makes his bully more upset. Yes. You know, like there's something fascinating here of him making this movie of like the happy pretty Normal kids on the beach who can just give each other looks and then be like you wanna go fuck in the water

But a comp that I was thinking about this moment. Remember in neighbors when they have like that whole plan Like the Seth Rogen movie neighbors when he's like, alright once they start talking We have 30 seconds until they decide to go upstairs and have sex. Like, and I like that this, like, it doesn't matter what generation you are from. If you just start looking at a member of the office of sex for long enough, it's gonna be like,

all right, so we gotta leave now, right? Like, we just gotta go have sex now? God bless. Just quickly, the Butler conversation, right? And this is, speaking with David's saying of there not being as much of a like This sort of like set union between director and cinematographer We always work with each other and we're gonna carve out time for each other and whatever right but learn

75 does jaws and cuckoo's nest the year before that he did the conversation right within this decade He does Greece he does rocky too, but then in between it are 80 titles You've never heard. Right. The guy was just doing shit. Like right before Jaws, he does the Manchu Eagle Murder Caper Mystery. That sounds good. Like even coming out of Jaws, it doesn't feel like he was treated as like, well, obviously,

you are the finest image crafter. No, because that just didn't exist back then, right? Or it's just starting to exist. He does The Omen 2, he does something called Uncle Joe Shannon. That sounds good too. it's just starting to exist. He does the Omen too. He does something called Uncle Joe Shannon. That sounds good too. He's just doing shit. I don't think... So my dad is... My dad's a photographer. And grew up, like, you know, like in Central Maine, making a living as a photographer.

And I don't think that people under a certain age, basically anybody that doesn't know a world without digital photography, I don't think they understand how hard it is... To just get any image. that doesn't know a world without digital photography. I don't think they understand how hard it is. To just get any image. To get any image, much less a good one, when you don't know, you just have to be like, I understand how light works,

I understand what the focus depth is, I understand if the sun's behind them, how to get light on their face, or to not have it, or to like, when to take detail out. Like, I don't think they understand how fucking hard this is. So it does make sense that a guy like that, who can make jaws and make the conversation, is also like, yeah, I also have to go do the other movies,

because if they don't, if I don't do it, they literally don't have another human being that knows how to do it. Here's another thing that's just, I don't think people think about that much. Right. You know, playback is only invented by Jerry Lewis in like the fucking 60s. It's still a fairly new technology at this point in time. But video playback was them attaching a small camera next to the film camera and them having

a monitor that showed them a vague reference image of what it was looking like. But not only is it off a little bit in orientation, it's a different fucking format. Right. You're not seeing what the shot's actually going to look like. Right now they're actually tapping a feed in to show you what the digital camera is capturing. And they can actually the shot and they can color correct it in real time, in real time. Right. So like not only is it in real time in real time, right? So like not only is it that tough to get any image? but even the image they're looking at for reference is not representative of

Whether or not that image is working and they just have to wait for it to be thrown into a fucking chemical bath like the Joker and Then everyone like goes to rushes this thing that we don't have anymore as the sort of tradition of like The cast and crew getting together late at night in a screen room with alcohol and basically being like oh Fuck, I hope these things look good and you hear the stories of when like rushes were Explosive when people are like, holy shit. We have lightning in a bottle the arc of just being like, oh my god, it's in focus Yeah, it's in focus.

It's not under exposed. The image works. We have some usable version of the image. And then if on top of that you have like, the performance works or the shark works or any of that shit, that's why I'm saying I still can't get my head around that they got the footage they got.

With all the X factors. Yeah. Part of it might be the fact that they had 59 days With all the X factors. Right. Yeah. Part of it might be the fact that they had 59 days and then it took a hundred and fifty five. That's a way to solve it. It did take them a while and it was hard. Right.

Right. Should we do a little SimSense check-in about how Sims is doing since he got here, Sims? How are you doing? How are you feeling? It's fine. You're with a legend of twin daddom here. That's true. An incredible resource.

Yeah. In the field. of twin daddom here. That's true. An incredible resource. Yeah, but the problem with twin parents is that they're, which is good in a way, like there's no twin parent I've met where they're like, listen, listen, three simple rules for raising twin infants. Like it's actually, if you just do this, this and this, it'll be okay.

Instead, they're just like, I have no memory of that. Yeah. No, it was terrible and I don't remember. And I remember later. The brain blocks things out. Roman Mars, friend of the show, a huge fan of the movie Jaws, is also a twin parent. And he sent me like a comforting email and he learned I had twins. It was like, honestly, after like three years, you're really going to feel normal again. And I was like, three years? Yeah. Roman. He's nodding. Yes. Well, here's the thing is that Moana will be out by then the I I didn't I was talking to Ben about this before we ran into each other down the street and we like sat at a nice little table and we talked congratulations are in

order congratulations so much and we talked about how I maybe hadn't played the you announcing to me that you were having twins in the right way that made you feel calm because I was like, oh no, you're fucked. Like I really wasn't- I wanna see if I can find the verbatim for fucked. Wasn't really very gentle about that and I am sorry. It's fine. It is true. But also Casey Bloys who was at the time Veep was on

was the head of HBO comedy and then kind of slowly started moving up, and now he's, I think, running all of Max. Yes, no, of course. So he also has twins that I think are maybe six years older than ours, and when they were first born, he was like, look, it gets a lot easier at three,

and I was like, cool, cool, cool, and then I would see him a couple years later, and he's like, here's the thing. Seven is when it really gets dialed in, and I was like, oh, great, and then they would hit seven, and I would see him, and he was like, here's the thing, seven is when it really gets dialed in. And I was like, oh, great. And then they would hit seven and I would see him and he was like, you know what's great? 13.

You're gonna love 13. This is true with all parents, you're right. Like parents are like, well actually now I just feel okay about it. And it's like, well, when you say normal, you mean a version of normal. A version of normal. Like you felt better about this six months in

and then two years in and then, you know, what, of course, I understand that. There are like little markers and I just wanna let you know that like, it is a really, of course, it's like a very beautiful thing, but you are also in the, possibly the hardest part of it. I think there's no question. Yes.

I think when you have young children, the hardest part is true infancy. Yes. Because that's's the sleeplessness, them not giving you anything back. Like it's really, you know, that's an unusual feeling. And there is also a moment, like even one thing that's going to open up your world, you already have a child, so you kind of already know this, but with twins for sure is like when they're just able to hold their own bottle with their own little hands, that is a thing where it's just like, oh, oh, God, okay, I now don't have to hold the bottle for them. Right. Or the two of them.

That sounds great. Anyway, I love you and I hope you're doing the best that you can. Doing fine. We'll talk about it. Well, I'll talk to you sometime. I should talk to you sometime. You should. I don't remember anything. Yeah, exactly. A useless motherfucker. So Were you on Veep when you had Young Twins? Like was that? They were born at the end of shooting the first season.

I actually had to leave in the middle of episode seven of season one, because they were born like sort of very. That must have been really intense. It was very, very stressful. If you go back and watch in the eighth episode, you can kind of see that I'm only in there for like one scene. Right.

And it was because I had like flown back for one day to basically finish out some version of a storyline. I was supposed to be in that episode more, but they rewrote it. So I came out and filmed like one day, finished out, and then went back home. Right, right. It was, yeah, it was very, very stressful.

Well, I'm glad you made it. Here you are. And here we are. I'm fine, Jack. Just coming out to just... What a triumphant time. Yeah. I feel like one of the most famous cold opens of all time.

It is. Thank you for bringing us back to the start of the movie. Certainly. It is like... What is the movie Jaws? One of the most parodied sequences ever. Yeah. Right. Spielberg himself parodies it. In... 1941.

Right. I don't think I've seen 1941 so this is news to me I have look I'll be watching it soon for the first time I have never been able to successfully make it through I think I've never gotten past the 20 or 30 minute mark but the opening sequence is Spielberg being like I'm ready to make fun of myself and people being like this is the most hubristic shit I've ever seen right Wow but again another reason that like this is the most Hubristic shit I've ever seen right Wow Again another reason that like this has been the reason that this movie is so good is that this has been Parodied so many times yet you watch the real thing and it's like the moment where she is

Actually taken underwater there is all the screaming and then the moment where it is cut short and then silent is still immensely effective. David has this very detailed Jaws towel hanging behind him, which we've referenced, which is the poster image. This beautiful painted image of Jaws basically just going straight up nose to the sky, right? Right. Um, the exact kind of image you never see in the movie. Yeah. But there is this beautiful marriage of, the poster setting the expectations for like, holy shit, that does look scary from that angle.

And then to the point of like, what would the movie have been if the shark had worked? There's no version of it that's scarier than the one where you don't see the shark at all. I know it's the most, it's the most, it's an observation that's been made. It doesn't matter. It still is so, you're right.

It popping out as much as the poster seems exciting would never look as startling as her being pulled down. It is a hell of a poster. It is. But like, I think the movie kind of doesn't work without having the poster. The primal fear of sharks is that you won't see them. Right.

As someone who goes to the beach a lot, unlike you, you don't really go to the beach. Tim, where are you on the beach? I'm more of a Sammy Fabel man the beach a lot, unlike you, you don't really go to the beach. Tim, where are you on the beach? I'm at Beach County Fable. Now you're from Maine. Oh yes, this is like I... But are you from coastal Maine?

No, I'm from central Maine. Right, and obviously even coastal Maine, like it's chilly up there. Not everyone's like running into the beach. But I think, you know, Maine, New England, this is where this movie is set, obviously this is a sharky area. I'm from New York, I go to the beaches in New England, this is where this movie is set, obviously this is a sharky area. Yes. I'm from New York, I go to the beaches in New York,

there's less shark stuff there, but once in a while, there's the sort of notice of like, hey, like someone got bit by a shark. I don't like that. Out in the fucking rockaways. Don't like it. And, you know, everyone's like, I mean, basically what they say is like, I mean, it doesn't really happen that often,

so you shouldn't be too worried about it, but there's also nothing they can really say about like, but look out for this. Yeah. Because sure. If you see a shark, get away from the shark. Yeah. But largely it's more just kind of like, nah, kind of just, they kind of just come out of nowhere.

The fucked up thing is that there's now more shark attacks than ever. It's because the planet is climbing. But so now I feel like in the last few summers, I like to swim, going to the beach. I've been very mindful of the fact that I feel like if there's some kind of person that would get bit by a shark, it'd be me. No, but going back to the fucking earlier point, I think the sharks would sense your respect for them. Yes.

I'm genuinely not even joking now. I think you're less likely to be attacked by a shark than almost anyone. Like a fin bump? Yes. They also, in all the news stories about shark sightings, it always seems to be like somebody was flying a drone or there was a helicopter flying over and they spotted sharks and it's always like, here's the story. This person didn't know how close to a shark they were.

Yes, you hear a lot of that. Again, very chill thing that people love to hear, right? I think it's Ian Edwards, the great standup, has a bit about shark attacks. I mean, like, it's weird that we refer to them as shark attacks when we're the ones invading their home. Sure. It's not like sharks like fucking show up at your door

and stab you. He's like, I would call that a shark attack? But of course, the thing with sharks that I understand is that they're not actually very interested in eating us. We're not that tasty. We're a lot of bones. Sure. And instead, more of what happens if a shark is attacking you is that it's kind of biting to find out what you are. Yeah. And then we'll probably let you go. It's so nice to meet you. Yeah. And then you'll probably let you go. And then you're just bleeding to death because sharks are very powerful.

Okay, but what I've learned from a lot of research watching the movie, Finding Nemo, is that if they smell blood, their eyes go all black and all this sort of intellectualizing of fish are friends, not food. Yes, goes out the window and then you have chum and anchor. Exactly. Holding them by the throat. Don't throw it all away, mate! Yes, goes out the window and then you have chum an anchor exactly holding them by the throw away me. Yeah But obviously in Jaws feels like this shark has more of a fucking chip on his shoulder

Yeah, it's kind of like an attitude for the fourth time. It's personal this shark seems to have some personal Like this shark is basically like, you know what? Yeah, Martha's Vineyard these assholes. I've had enough but isn't this that like the thing that's so great about the Shaw speech, where you're just like, somehow this movie gets away with making this shark feel like a real shark and supernatural at the same time? I think every other shark movie, and the shark movie subgenre is weirdly durable, and it has very few classics, but also, every every 18 months some distributor that didn't exist two days earlier Releases a shark movie with four actors you've never heard of and it just quietly makes 45 million dollars, right?

There is just kind of like a very high basement for shark movies, right? but almost all of them start to like but almost all of them start to like Pathologize the shark more make the shark feel more magical or powerful or whatever it is Or there's movies like Deep with Sea where it's like these are super sharks like their literally have been super charged Right Meg or whatever. Yes. This is a movie where you have Robert Shaw give that speech expin explaining what is scary about a shark and have Robert Shaw give that speech explaining what is scary about a shark. And what is so successful in that speech is him basically saying like, there's no rhyme or reason to this.

They're just like an evolutionary like landmine. They're designed to make us terrified. Off of the New England thing. I, you mentioned that when we were like trying to figure out. I was like, it's an iconic New England movie. And you mentioned you were like, just because of your New England thing. You mentioned that when we were trying to figure out. I was like, it's an iconic New England movie. And you mentioned, you were like, just because of your New England connection, it might be interesting for you to come on for Jaws.

And so I think with that in mind, just sort of going forward, I think I was trying, because again, what are you gonna talk about when you talk about Jaws? I think a lot of the stuff that I kind of wrote down is sort of trying to come at it with that point of view of like the, from knowing a little bit about both like a tourist facing

and local facing economy and community and the sense of like, like they talk about it a lot at the beginning about like, you know, when will I ever be an islander? Stuff like that. If I'm not mistaken, I think we had that conversation about how long does it take to become a mainer in the Shining episode.

Sometimes you're never a mainer. We did talk about it a little bit. Like, even if you lived there for 30 years and you raised your children there, it's like, yeah, we weren't born here. And you said some fucking insane shit, like, homily about, like, baking in an oven or something. Yeah, if the cat, just because the cat has baking in an oven or something.

Yeah, if the cat, just because the cat has kittens in the oven, don't make them biscuits. Like that just means your parents weren't born here. That is one of the smartest things ever said. I mean it really, but I mean like there is a lot of that being here. It's really good. Ben, there might be a new poet laureate in town. I'm just, you just, but you said that last time, like I was supposed to go like, ah, yes, of course, as fucking Cicero once wrote.

Like, you know, you just like drop that and I'm like, just because a cat, what, ah, yes, of course, this fucking Cicero once wrote. Like, you know, you just like drop that. And I'm like, just because a cat, what? But every time I hear it. It does. But there is, there is, one thing that I really like about it is that there is a lot of specificity to that. And like, that is almost how we're introduced to the Brody's. I feel like it's like this second dialogue scene.

Yeah, right. Is that sort of like Her trying the accent and then being like no, but actually you're never ever you're you're never gonna get it. Yeah, and And I think that one thing that is interesting on this is that like so my sister is like a small business owner She has a bookstore and one thing that she has to combat all the time call out this Oh, it's called Hello, Hello Books. It's in Rockland, Maine, which is sort of in the mid-coast. And a really amazing town. And it is sort of like halfway between bougie tourist destination and just like mid-coast

working class Maine town. So there is always a push and pull about what you do for the year-round community, but also understanding that there is a tourist community. And one thing that she constantly has to deal with is basically people from New York coming up, spending two minutes in her bookstore and then coming up and being like,

you know what you should do? And she's like, I know what you should do, you should fuck off. Shut the fuck up. You should shut the fuck up. And I do like, I know what you should do. You should fuck off. Shut the fuck up. You should shut the fuck up. And I do think it's interesting that you have to make them New Yorkers. Yes. Immediately puts them at arm's length. So I'm not, is this not a defense of the mayor? But somebody from out of town coming up telling you how you should run the town when they have only been there for a matter of months, I think is an interesting

choice that whether Or not he knew it was happening. Yes, it was interesting. Well, and even though Scheider is playing a much like milder more empathetic version Here's a guy who's like made a lot of like city cop movies. Yes, you know, and so he feels like a man Whatever fish in the water, fish out of the water. Like just the economy of the characterization in this movie. So many things like that where I'm like, in a modern movie, that would be three scenes

where everyone says exactly what they're thinking. And the backstory, and it would start with him driving into the town and then being like, now, look, the locals might be a little hostile to you at first and you see it happen four times and it's like this is a movie in which all that characterization is done through action and behavior quickly and not only that like one thing that I have honestly only since really listening to you guys talk about Spielberg because I was never like somebody who I just always enjoyed his movies, but I never looked at them very closely. His use of space.

Insane. And I think one of the amazing things about the opening of the movie is that when he is at the police station, and they're like, he's like, I have to like run over to the store or go talk to somebody. They don't, he doesn't go and get in his car, they show him walk to that store, just to be like, this is how small this town is. That it is a much more use, is a much better use of your time to just walk rather than get in your car. Which tells you a ton. Yes.

I mean, it's, look, it's much discussed and we will be talking about it for the next several months, but the Spielberg-Warner is really a thing that no one else can touch because he does it in a way that is so unshowy, does not call attention to itself. That's what it is. When someone points out to you that it exists when you're a younger film fan, you're like, no, there are cuts in that.

That's not what he does. And then you see like, oh yeah, he does it right in this very unostentatious way. And they are always like in the name of simplicity. Oh, you know what? We could link these two moments together. That makes it one setup. We spend more time getting the performances right rather than needing to break this up and spend half a day on it. Right.

And he is able to communicate so much in the shifts of the blocking and positioning and physicality, everyone's relationships to the space. And it never feels ostentatious. The one that always blows my fucking mind when I watch this movie, I don't even know what the thing's called, but that transportation, that thing they're on that's bringing the car, that sort of moving barge sort of thing. It's like a little fairy, yeah.

Yeah, like a single car fairy. Right, like this shot that basically starts with him pulling the car onto that, getting out. The thing is moving in water. The camera is moving slightly. They're moving in relation to each other. The entire dynamic of the mayor kind of, like, sussing him out. It's called the Chappie Ferry.

It's insane. In the movie, it's called the Amity on time, but it exists. You can go visit it in Martha's Vineyard. What is it supposed to do? Like transports, like two to three cars, like total. It does also seem strange, because even just watching this last night, at the end, don't know cars or very few cars.

Doesn't like the car pull on and they pull out and then they just kind of end up at the exact same spot and then the car leaves? I mean, it's kind of like, it's the Goodfellas Copacabana thing, where if you watch it, you're like, they move in a circle. Right. Right. If you actually think about what's happening. Yes.

And it's not just that someone needs to tell you, you can't tell. If you look for it, you're like, they basically start back where they enter. From the moment they enter through the side door, the entrance they'll end up going through to the theater is directly to their left. That's so great. And they just circle the kitchen one time and then go there. The one thing that I do also say about the sort of like backstory and like the economy and the restraint of this is that it's clear that Brody and his family have moved there and he's taken this job to get away from and he kind of mentions it offhand,

like oh there's violence in the city. It's like right, scaring 70s New York City, it's just not for him, he's got a kid, he wants to just settle down. And that is a part of the story of like, oh well you can't ever escape the violence, we thought we were gonna, but it's never really explicitly stated outside of him

just kind of saying that New York in the 70s is kind of scary Here's the other thing. These kinds of movies used to just have so much more respect for the audience. Yes, they fucking did. Of they will figure it out and it's the thing I love to say but it's like if you let the audience figure shit out They like the movie more. Yeah.

They feel smart. My question is, okay, his job now is like police chief in essentially a town in Martha's Vineyard, Amity, right? A shark kills somebody. Now I know they don't know that it's a shark. But is that something you call the cops for? There is that moment later where Dreyfus is, or whoever is like, have you called the Coast Guard? And he's like, now it was like local jurisdiction.

I'm like, what were you going to do, arrest the fucking shark? Like you're a policeman. They got guys in the back trying to develop shark handcuffs do an R&D at one point are you like this is a shark attack I am now bringing in like people who know about sharks I am a policeman I know about people crime I do it that is a good, do I call the cops? I mean, I wonder... Go get him! Well, I would call 9-1-1. Oh, yeah. Call those guys for sure.

You're right, but I think it says a lot about what the core themes of this movie are, especially the first half and the mayor and everything, that it's like, the concern is immediately, how do we communicate a sense of safety? Your job is public safety. How do you maintain public safety? Because I think there is this feeling of like, how do you solve this? I don't know.

It's sad. It's a tragedy. A woman got eaten by a shark. This guy has to let everyone know that everything's okay. They should have had a scene where they had someone, like, sit with one of the victims and draw what the shark looked like. -♪ LAUGHS CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTINUES, CONTIN the shark looked like. Finn. And his teeth were sharp? Yeah.

Okay, okay. Kind of like a jazzy thing going on. Yeah, imagine like a paperback and I'm swimming up here and there's this big mouth. Like straight up. The initial tension of jaws. The teeth are like this. Almost like you're pulling the corners of your mouth down.

The initial tension of jaws is that Brody's like, let's close the beaches. There's a shark. Yeah. And Major Larry Vaughn. Wonderful performance in my opinion by Murray Hamilton. An incredible suit. Obviously an iconic suit. Howard Kramer always would say it's his favorite character because he refuses to close the

beach and wants summer to continue. The, the thing about, I made a little note about that jacket that he's wearing, which he actually wears twice in that there is, and this is again about the push pull of a public and public, but also tourist related area is that the locals sometimes have to play into their own caricature. And I like that he is wearing that in that... Right, he's not gonna be like, I'm a sober civic manager here.

He's like, I'm a mascot for a beach town. Yes, and I like that he is doing that. I like that they made that there is like, whether or not he really believes, he's like, there is an expectation of the people coming here of like a quaintness of like well, also he's like We're not gonna pay our bills if we don't have the beach in the summer Like I mean he's not exactly like a thriving metropolis in the winter

Like we need you cannot close our beach also Brody comes here because he thinks this is gonna be an easier way of life Right. I think the immediate hostility from the locals is them being like you're innately too intense Yeah, what your lowest register like crime is not a real thing here We need like fucking Andy Griffith to patrol the police, you know We need like a Mayberry department and like I either all that jazz or last embrace. I said something about like Roy Scheider being the tautest actor. He's very taut his skin seems kind of it Just there is a physical tension to just his existence Where I just see him showing up and being like God just fuck it. Can this guy cool it?

Can his face relax and to the to that point of him being too wound up Yeah, one thing that I like that the movie does is like it isn't just like oh, he was right the whole time He was right the whole time like yeah sharks are bad, right? But there was like he took a really bold took a bold leap and said sharks are bad. Yeah, shark attacks are scary Yeah, there is an understanding in that, like yes it is the mayor trying to put his finger on the scale, but like they live next to the ocean. Like these things are going to happen.

It's inevitable. It's inevitable. You have to try to be as safe as you can, but this will never be a complete without risk. And I like that he is like, yeah, maybe I am overreacting. He does dial it down a little bit. They put a little pressure on him. They kind of, the coroner's like,

well, maybe it wasn't a shark. This is what I was trying to get at though, with the magic of the shark never crossing into the supernatural is like, I err on Brody's side and most of what he's suggesting, how he reacts. But I do think after the first one there is a logic to like look. This is a beachside It sucks. There's a shark attack every few years like what can we do? We all hate sharks tell everyone there was a shark attack maybe and like that's that right?

But you see even when shark attacks go up. You're just like Statistically it is very low in probability that any of us will ever be eaten By a shark, but the more time you spend in the water the likelihood increases a little bit the more it goes on the more he has to like really stand his ground of like I have an obligation to do whatever I can to protect these people even if it is only in communication and I can to protect these people even if it is only in communication and The scene where everyone is like sort of in the press conference or whatever the town meeting Asking him is the beach gonna be closed out and it almost feels like they're saying they're waiting for him to say yes They want the relief of he's taking care of us

He says yes, and they immediately all go ballistic and the mayor just has to jump in and go like for 24 hours. He's saying for 24 hours, which again, not to not to defend the mayor too much, but like after one shark attack. This is what we're saying. It's like maybe maybe it's somewhat understandable until a boy explodes. Yes. And in a movie with a lot of famous shots, I think that Scheider sitting on the beach and the zoom, you know The Hitchcock zoom the dolly zoom look that's that's right. The most famous shot It's that for me and jaws coming out of the water with which is just so impeccably timed and framed the dolly zoom

It's not like that shot didn't exist. It wasn't like Spielberg's inventing it right? It's perfectly applied But also every time I watch it. I'm like, it might be the smoothest execution of it on a technical level. It is incredible how fast it is and just how like buttery it is. Yes, exactly. It's so smooth and it also really, just like in the language of the movie,

you're like, we are kind of entering the supernatural a little bit, right? Like it does feel like it's like not supernatural in terms of like, this is a magic shark, but supernatural in terms of like, okay, now things are just not normal. Like, and like that's like, it's like he can no longer just do what we were just doing of like, it's a beach town.

Sharks exist in the water, I can't control everything. Now it's like, he's like, this is my fault, right? Like, so there's that horror to him. And also it's like, this is something we can't control everything. Now it's like he's like, this is my fault. Right? Like, so there's that horror to him. And also it's like, this is something we can't control. I'm just, while we're talking about shots in that sequence, like, weirdly, again, this is like the most quotable line, like the most quotable lines from this movie might not even be the best performed.

I honestly, I think there's a part of me that thinks my favorite shot from that sequence is like when you have like the sort of cross wipes of people walking in front of the camera and each time it gets closer to him. I felt like that to me might be my... It is so subtly disorienting. Yes, and it ramps up the tension of that.

And this is a little bit of a young man thing. How well like this... You young man! I am a young man. No, little bit of a young man thing. How well, like, this... You young man. I am a young man. No, I'm like a young man director that I don't necessarily know if I love the choice, but I think maybe if it's in the 70s or whatever. Like, like... Audience expectation, that whole sequence starts out

with a somewhat larger woman walking into the ocean. Almost as like, oh, well, this is the person. It's almost like a misdirected, this is the shark. It's almost like a misdirect that this is the shark. I think that is intentional as much as I don't like that it feels a little fat-shamy. You know what I mean? But also you're just like, you just think he can't kill the kids.

Yes. Yes. And Spielberg has said, I wouldn't have the guts to do that now. That's young Spielberg, having the guts to be like, yeah, you didn't see that coming, did you? What's gonna sound like a horrible side tangent, but I swear it's gonna become relevant very quickly Jeff Daniels talks about when he was cast in the movie speed Spoilers for a 30 year old movie. Do you know the thing? I'm gonna say yes

I've watched this clip like a million horse Jeff Daniels the spoiler is that he dies midway through speed So he has a moment where he discovers a bomb. Right. And it's like, oh, this guy in the last second of his life recognizes I'm about to blow up. Right, he's in the SWAT gear, and then we just like hold on his face for a second, and then kaboom. Right. Spoilers. Jeff Daniels sees that in the script.

It's like, how do I play this? Reaches out to Roy Scheider, who I think maybe he had worked with at that point. Had some direct line too. And is like, in my mind's like, how do I play this? Reaches out to Roy Scheider, who I think maybe he had worked with at that point, had some direct line too. And is like, in my mind's eye, this moment should be the moment of you pulling back after accidentally throwing the chum to Jaws. Right.

How did you get there as an actor? Like your reaction in that shot is so incredible. How did you get there? And Roy Scheider is like, here's the secret. I tensed up the muscles directly under my eyes and my cheekbones, and then on action, I just dropped them. Love that. And he was like, I wasn't thinking anything.

It was just tension, release, done. And it is, they are the two most iconic shots in the movie, and they both, if you look at them them are just him doing that where for a guy who we've talked about is so tense to begin with him just releasing a tiny bit mm-hmm is Like such a holy shit something's wrong for the audience Right it like one thing that I love about that quote is it sort of, it illuminates one of the things I love about filmmaking and film acting in that, like, sometimes it can just be technical.

And I don't want to take emotion out of these things. But like, sometimes this is... The magic of it for me is the marriage of the things. Yes, that's the thing. And so when it is just like, what were you thinking? It doesn't matter what I was thinking my face was tense and then I relaxed it and that moment of Jeff Daniel's in speed like it is a haunting shot and it has haunted me since I was a kid who saw it and Didn't really understand death or that somebody I liked might die

Yeah, so brilliant speed because you're like this guy's kind of the steady hand. He's the guy on the phone with Keanu He's gonna help him out and then then he's like, he's gone. And then they take the moment. But that's why he correctly identified I need to be the Shider. Oh no, no, no, he means to have that. He's right, he's right. And I just, and so I love that that one simple

technical musculature thing is what was able to communicate a much larger emotional moment, even though the emotion might not have been there. And you replay those two shots and the shift in his face is microscopic. Yeah. It is. It's not like you can't really see what you're talking about, but you can see an expression that feels like it lodges with you.

Right. And you would think, oh, he must have been doing something under the hood emotionally. And this is a reflection of that conveying it, but he was totally just thinking in terms of technical technique I'm sure you've you're a phenomenal actor Tim But I'm sure you've had this experience where you're like on set trying to crack a scene and you're like I just got a load so much under there So it's like coming out of my eyes and I want to underplay it

But I'm just trying to fill up and then you look at it and you're like none of this comes across Yeah, not like I'm doing too much, but just all this shit I was internalizing, none of it reads. And then sometimes you're like, I just looked at the light. Like there's a big bright light here. And if I look at it and my eyes are a little bloodshot right before they call action, it is a thousand percent more impactful

than if I think about everyone I know who died. Yes, I mean, like, and again, I don't wanna like take out those things because I think about everyone I know who died. Yes, I mean like and again, I don't want to like take out those things because I think they have been incredibly helpful. Sometimes it absolutely works, but it's magical in a way where you're like I had to put myself through that. Yeah, right. But also it doesn't necessarily guarantee that the thing is going to be good. Sometimes it is just look at the light. Sometimes it is you just have to be still and then you just have to shift. Yes. Shift your face a little bit. Yes David do you love it?

To replace actors and movies and then he's finally gonna like the art form I just want all movies to be the Lego movie with Pharrell Yeah, it's just like that's had that be all movies now. Just Legos can be the Lego movie with Pharrell. Piece by piece? Yeah, it's just like, let's have that be all movies now. Just Legos can be the actors. The Death of the Kid is what brings in Quint, because there's sort of a shark bounty now. Screech. Exactly. And Hooper.

One of the greatest character introductions of all time. I probably first knew the Simpsons version of it, I think, and then I learned this version of it after the fact. True of so many movie things for me. And then Hooper, who's basically coming in being like, I am Mr. Shark, and I can tell you that the shark that killed this person is very large and abnormal. Like, this is, you know, I'm the shark expert.

And Quint's like, and I'm the shark catcher. And I can tell you that sharks are scary. I just love that they punt Quint for like 40 minutes. Yeah, you put him in there, he's in the mix, and then right, we'll check in with him later. His introduction is so explosive, and you're like, so now the movie is his? And you're like, no, they all just go like fuck off.

The air gets salty. It does. It does, wherever you are. When, one of the first things that he says, which is in the monologue that you did at the top of this, again, I wanna reiterate, great job. And monologue that you did at the top of this again I want to reiterate great job and thank you And that was an example of me really filling up and loading in as much sense memory as I would it were feelings Thank you. I think one of the first things he says is you all know me. You know what I do. Yeah

And I all I so about fucking economic characterization There's so much said in this guy introducing himself. I'd be like, you know my fucking deal and you're like Oh, this guy's been annoying this town forever Yes, and I love again This is another sort of like coastal main thing of like of like the charm of the town is what draws the tourists But also we want to try to keep the actual Workman of right town like we don't want you to see that. We wanna somehow sweep this under the rug

so you get the sense that even the locals have locals. And like Murray Franklin trying to get Brody to take it easy also feels like, hey, look, we got this fucking guy who all the time is like scratching chalkboards, delivering soliloquies. Right, if there's a real shark problem. We elevated up to quint Yeah, that he's just like we always have these overzealous guys

Who want to go on and on her sharks and we just fucking calm them down and ignore that we really care about here is lollipops and and saltwater taffy right taffy and Small roller coasters. I don't know what they do. It's like, there's like, I think there is something in that, again, even if it's not the main point, I think there is something interesting there about class. There's not only the class of people that's coming to the town, there's the class of people that live there. And then they are, and they all kind of look down on the class that Quint comes from. Yes, the true salty sea dog type.

Yes, right. Not like a sort of suit wearing land lovers. But also you're like guys like this, ostensibly you have to imagine, run the economy the other eight or nine months out of the year. Yeah, fisher. You're like, I'm sure this town's economy is like overwhelmingly the summer vacation tourist months, but the rest of the year it's fucking exporting fish. And it's like off season, like, you know, I remember any place you go that's seasonal

and you go to like some nice restaurant and you're like, you know, it's like, yeah, in the off season, this restaurant kind of just turns into like a burger place or whatever because it's like the clientele completely changes. Like that's how life is. And some of them might not even they're just like, yeah, in October we close. Nobody here is employed between October and March. I'm thinking, cause I know the Adirondacks best. And the Adirondacks has this thing of like in the summer, it's like this summer crowds,

right? Boating and whatever, water skiing and hiking. And then in the winter it's snowmobilers is the people who like are in there in the winter. And like that's an entirely different clientele. Like they don't, yeah. Anyway, snowmobilers is the people who like are in there in the winter and like that's an entirely different clientele. Like they don't, yeah, anyway, snowmobilers. Not to skip too far ahead, but I think that class thing, I really noticed it this time when Brody's wife, he's about to get on the boat with Quinn and Quinn is singing the rhyme

about virginity. Like, you know, the old, you know, the kind of sea shanty rhyme or whatever. Yeah. In that you kind of see how annoying he could be to the community and her reaction is like, it seems filled with, not only is my husband going to go out on a boat to try to find a killer shark that could kill him, he is also terrified of water. I don't know when he's gonna be back. And also he's gonna be on the boat with this fucking guy. This fucking guy who's talking about a 15 year old losing his virginity, which is pretty remarkable in this vicinity.

Are they going to be playing Rogan all day on the boat? Yes. Shire's going to come back and be like, you made some interesting points. Yeah. Get your dollars up with Dollar Up on DraftKings Casino. Hit the reels for a modern take on old school styled slots. New players can play five bucks to get a spin on the mystery wheel for a shot at up to one thousand in casino credits. Download the app and sign up with code CHECK, then play Dollar Up exclusively on DraftKings Casino. The crown is yours. in casino credits, download the app and sign up with code CHECK, then play Dollar Up exclusively

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slash promos ends January 19th, 2025 at 1159 p.m. Eastern Time. You've also got Hooper. And with Hooper, we have this, to me, classic Spielberg sequence where it's like, let's have him find the dead body of the fisherman in the most fun way possible. The audience is kind of relaxing for an undersea moment, where they're like, this is an exploration moment, not a Jaws moment, right? And then like his head pops out and his eyes all... Unbelievable.

And everyone like jumps, screams, and then to me, most importantly, laughs. Like the whole audience laughs, because they're just like, oh, he got us again! I'd say it's also the only image in the movie that goes into full like EC Comics, you know? Like horror. It's more like, right, harmony in a way Comics. Yeah. You know, like horror. It's more like, right, harmony in a way too.

It's like more R-rated. This film is hilariously rated PG, which is funny because it has nudity. This one wasn't the one that created PG-13. No, that's more like, it's more like Temple of Doom, Gremlins, mid-80s. Back then it was just kind of like, look, there's R-rated movies, there's PG,

which is basically like, I don't know, bring your kids if you want to. Right, and R rated movies were like, say for just if a film mentioned communism, that would get an R rate. Right, it's like, this film has divorce in it, rated R, you know, like something like that. Right, but you put boobs in a movie. It's like, yeah, tits and blood, PG. That's the funniest thing, is you put tits in a movie and people would be like, well, I guess it can't be G. Right, and then, exactly, like Lawrence of Arabia, they're like, well, I guess it can't be G right and then right

Yeah, exactly like Lawrence of Arabia. They're like, yeah, it's probably a G who cares Like there's some movies that are G like I think like Star Trek the motion picture is a G Like there's things like that where they were just kind of like, I don't know. I didn't see anything too crazy happen I guess it's a G it is wild how few G movies there are now where PG has basically become G Yeah, cuz now even that doesn't exist that much now like peril qualifies right for like a PG or whatever Yeah, like Paw Patrol is PG because you know it runs the risk of making that turtle On the edge of falling off the bridge Be that moment even last night when I was watching it, I had forgotten it was coming and I jumped. It's a great, it's the best jump.

His one eye is floating along with his head. And a bunch of fucking maggots. Right, but the question is, was he so scared that his eye popped out of his head? Yeah. Because how else did it get out? It's his fright feature. I think some, you know, some fishies

might have been nibbling on it. Oh, sure, it loosened it up a little bit. Well, that's headcanon, David. You can't support that. Yep. I mean, I guess you're not, like, relaxed in that sequence. He is exploring a wreck or what. You just don't think that's going to happen. No, I like that there's this sort of, like, escalation to the frenzy

of the shark becoming a fun thing because it starts to be perceived as, like, a potential winning lottery ticket escalation to the frenzy of the shark becoming a fun thing because it starts to be perceived as like a potential winning lottery ticket for the locals. Right, in a way it's sort of like, are you tough enough in a way? Right. Like when Quince looked to his son,

like go in the lagoon please, he's like, no, that's for like old ladies. Like I don't wanna go there. But this is where I'm like, it's the shit that like reminded me so much of the various stages of like the fucking COVID experience where there's this thing of like, oh what so are you one of these guys who's fucking scared? You're gonna wear a mask in public, you know

like that whole kind of thing where you're like there are these like dueling public narratives like dueling public narratives of how we should respond to this that then becomes like a reflection on the individual and everyone getting in their head of like, what do I want to project to others? I want to throw out a couple moments that I had two things that I really liked. One was a sort of character one for the wife, who is sort of eventually, especially once they get out on the water, sort of forgotten. But I do like the moment she has leading up to that.

At one point, I think when Hooper comes over to the house, he says, is your husband home? I'd really like to talk to him. And she says, so would I. Just, and I like that that's just a very simple moment that we don't really dwell on, but it's clear he's been in his fucking head and not communicating with her. The moment with him in the sun

is such an important reset moment for the movie. And I feel like is infamously one of those things that Spielberg kind of just discovered on set. There was no moment like that in the script. And what could just be a scene of like, fucking Brody being inconsolable after this child death, becomes this like He needs to keep going moment

You have this small moment of humanity and human connection in a way where like his wife can't reach him because she's trying to talk To him like an adult. Yeah, and he is like too deep in grief Yeah, but his son just mirroring his face is kind of just breaks through. It's so great Yeah, and I also love he says something at one point where it's like, Hooper says, like, why do you live on an island if you're so scared of the water? And he says, it only looks like an island if you look at it from the water.

That's true. I don't know what, I mean, I just really love that. I love that. I mean, but it's so true, like, so many people who live, I feel like, in our communities, like, I don't learn to swim. Like, that's where I don't go. I live in the island. Like, not in the island.

Land. Land. Anyway, right, this is, we're now now we're about to transition into the mega final act like the last hour of the just call out Cuz she's about to disappear from the rest of Lorraine Gary Lorraine Gary the wife of Sydney Sheinberg who is the president of universal? Yes, sure And then she becomes the like main Connective tissue through all the sequels? She's in Jaws 1, 2, and 4.

Okay, she's not in 3. 4 is her final, Revenge is her final film role. And that was like a, I think a small role. Like cause she had basically, basically. The Son is played by a different actor in every movie, right? Cause Dennis Quaid is him in 3 and Lance Guest from last starfighter. I think him in revenge Okay, that's a fucking she did a bunch of Jesus Christ Griffin, but her movie roles are jaws

She has a tiny role in car wash. She's in I never promised you a rose garden in some sort of mid-size role She's in a comedy called zero to sixty with a tiny role She then she's in jaws comedy called Zero to Sixty with Tiny Roll. Then she's in Jaws 2, 1941. And then a George Burns movie called Just You and Me Kid. And then she retires. She comes back for Jaws from the Revenge. Jaws the Revenge is sort of like a hat tip. It also kind of feels like the name of every George Burns movie.

Yeah, Just You and Me Kid. It's Just You and me, kid. But she's good. I mean, as much as right, she's sort of this odd kind of Nepo-y hire, she is. She's good. She's very effective in the movie. I agree. I think she's incredibly good. Yeah.

But yes, okay, like after the final, the sequence with the kids pretending to be the shark and then like the Jaws actually shows up at the other end. And another like cut out the fucking shoe leather thing that like, you know... We don't see the aftermath of that. We get that. Well, you have your scene with Brody and the mayor, where he has his unraveling of, like, my son was on that beach. Like, it finally hits him.

He doesn't become, like, quote-unquote a good guy, but he also was never coded as just simply a bad guy. But he's, like, starting to process it enough that Bro that Brody just goes like you have to give me the money Right. We're gonna hire quints. We're gonna go get and then jump straight to basically we're getting on the boat Right, it's like the whole movie has been The the holding back on activating Quinn and he's just like give me the fucking cash Hard-cut to so I recentlylistened to the Interstellar episode you guys did. I talk about this a lot in the Interstellar episode, right? How it jumps from, not Jaws, but like how it jumps from,

this is a big point for me about what's so brilliant about Interstellar, from, you know, are you going to, like, you've figured out what we're doing here at NASA to the things taking off. And like, there's no like prep or like, here, meet everybody. It's hard cut from him driving off in the car crying to the rockets. To the fucking rockets shooting up.

And even though they do a little bit of, I think they have the moment that we were talking about with the rhyme. I think that might be after the sailboat. But there is that moment through the pier when it is zooming is sort of zooming slowly in on the ocean. And it reminded me of that interstellar thing because it was like it is undeniable now.

The movie has to go to the ocean and it is sort of pulling you out underneath the pier. You're sort of leaving the safety of land and going out into the water and very soon after that we were just out on the water. And obviously Spielberg was right in that you do feel like you're out on the open ocean and it does feel different. You feel like you're in a new environment. Totally. But also, like, how many fucking movies and scripts do you read where you're like, why is this scene in it outside of some feeling that it must be in there? You know? Like this notion of I I guess you gotta show

how this happens. And you're like, but in reality, showing that scene does not give the audience any new information, and it's not entertaining. It's the William Goldman thing of like, don't show someone trying to hail a cab. Like they either put their hand out and a cab arrives because you need them to get in a cab, or you're writing a scene about how hard it is to hail a cab, in which case that better be pretty pivotal to the product of your reading. Right, right. Like, I don't need two minutes to someone being like, oh my god, you know, like, you know, like, just obviously, like, you're allowed to break the laws sometimes.

I'm just like, he puts his hand out, he gets a cab. But also, like, fucking, uh, Quint feels like the inevitable. You're right. And now it's like- You're surprised that they spent this long avoiding him. Sure. But now we're with them. Right.

And now we're in his world. And now... They're both... Cooper is kind of trying to prove himself to Quint, like you say, and Brody is kind of like, now I'm stuck on this fucking boat. I'm like, I'm land man. I hate this.

I hate this. And like the chum moment that we already talked about with Jaws popping out, he's complaining about, he's like, I know how to drive a boat, I can like, go full ahead or whatever, like, and then, you know, instead I'm doing this shit. And then of course that's when Jaws is like, I know how to drive a boat. I can go full ahead or whatever. Instead, I'm doing this shit. And then, of course, that's when Jaws is like, by the way. Yes. Hello. I do love just to jump back one last second,

but the last pre-boat thing I want to call out, the whole narrative cul-de-sac around the guys successfully catching the shark and everyone doing basically the full parade, being the George Bush Bush mission accomplished thing of like, we are telling you that we have defeated the problem and Brody and Hooper both just being like, well, Hooper recognizing the bite circumference is wrong, saying it to Brody, Brody relaying it. Like it's such a good, oh, this is the moment that these two guys are going to be inextricably linked.

Yeah. That they share this and no one else listens and they're the only two who are concerned and won't accept this And I also love that whoever's taking the picture basically says get out of the picture nerd Yeah, you're fucking this up. You're fucking this up Get out of there because he's still trying to measure the fucking bite and they're like get out right You're right you cut to the high C's, and it's like, the movie immediately feels so different. Yeah. And also now, like, Shaw is controlling

the tone of the film. He is. As an actor, which is what makes the performance so seismic. Right. And that's sort of a crucial point, is when he smashes the radio, because he's like, no, no. Like, this is me taking on this shark.

We're not calling the Coast Guard or whatever. Because what should happen is, right, someone just comes in and like machine guns this thing. Like it's like, it's a, this is a problem shark. This is not a regular situation. It's a great white shark. It's a great white shark. It's a fantastic white shark. I do kind of love when right at the beginning you see how nervous they are when basically

like Quinn is basically just treating this like any other fishing trip. Yeah, he's just fucking like ripping beers and Like he's got an actual fucking fishing pole Also, it's their plan is just like put chum around the shark will show up and we shoot harpoons at it Right, right. Like they don't have like a complex plan really but he's gonna try and catch you with the giant fishing pole at some point Plan is like I'll inject it with strychnine where it's like Like I mean Brody has like a very cop plan at one point when he's just like what if I just shoot at it Yes, what if I just unload it just for like I don't know how people deal with sharks I'm not a shark expert, but it just kind of suggests to me that right, no one really has a foolproof like,

shark problem? Here's your shark solution. Brody's treating it like somebody was trying to hop the turnstile in the fucking subway. Well, Quinn has this very interesting strategy, his sort of whole approach to shark killing is, I watched all of my friends get eaten by sharks across three days, and now I'm insane. eaten by sharks across three days and now I'm insane. Right? Right? Like, it is what is so great about the monologue is it kind of explains him in a way that also

doesn't feel too neat. Because you're like, oh, this is his backstory. This is why it's personal, right? This is why this guy is devoted to his life. But also you're like, oh, but this guy also lost his mind in this moment. Yes. He's not just got like a regular problem with sharks as they eat people He's got a really really big thing about sharks, right?

And it's a kind of the only thing that makes him happy is to watch a short Like that's my read on it isn't like for every shark I kill I bring back the spirit of one of my friends like there's no like mental calculation And he's also not like I really want the good people of Amity to like be able to go to the beach He hates those fucking people. Yes. He sings dirty limericks at them from his boat It likes two two men demands apricot brandy and sings bad songs simply to make them uncomfortable Like you know me you know what I do like yeah, you go fucking crazy all the time about sharks. Dare I say it, Tim? Does Robert Shaw's performance as Quentin Jaws remind you at all of a, and

I think you should leave, sketch? There is kind of a Tim Robinson energy here. Which one, though? Just demanding Apricot Brandy Doing things his own way Are we gonna can we try to get that back? Which fucking sketch though, it's not jumping out to me I think the first one I jumped to is the Tim Heidecker charade sketch, but that that's not even Tim Robbins But I do feel like there's that kind of like Yeah, but that's still that's a very different type.

David, this is a side conversation we're having. Are we doing this just to annoy David? Because if so, I'm very happy about it. It's annoying. I find it quite annoying. No, no, no. But here's the Carson Daly article. Here's the reason that this doesn't work.

The Tim Robinson thing really is something that a lot of people independently bring up, especially about George C. Scott and Dr. Strangelove. Yeah, I do think we were kind of the first ones to bring it up. Right, exactly. No, we definitely were. But I think you're kind of forcing it on this one. Like, Tim Robinson... It feels pretty organic, pretty natural, pretty smooth. One thing, it's almost this...

Weirdly, this Robert Shaw performance... is almost like when he does those two monologues, it's almost so grounded... Yeah. ...that you can't put the Tim Robinson thing on it I'm not saying maybe it's too small a slice because there's a there's a certain energy to which he imbues that That's true feeling of it being the most important thing in the world, and then he also dies a shocking death You know what I think you should leave you know what it's the two small

Robert Shaw is kind of ripping off too small a slice in these. Yeah. They use too small a slice. David is fully just like checking where Robert Shaw eats the gift receipt for the apricot brandy. Yeah. And then he makes Brody like Hooper does, like the scientific thing where he makes he eats one and then he eats the other one he's like no he touched it So It's just really funny. It really is he's like a whole case like how long are they going out there?

This dude's gonna drink never coming back. He's never coming. How are they out there? Just a night two nights? What are we talking? I love I love that. It's like it becomes abstract What are we talking about here? I don't know, but that's what I love. I love that it's like, it becomes abstract. And also, like, in some of the reverse shots of the boat, like, later on, they're, like, kind of not that far out. You can see the island. Yes.

Well, because I think shark attacks and stuff happen close, obviously, close to shore, because people go that far out. Yeah. Yeah. I want to throw out a shot that is just incredible of Robert Shaw on the pulpit with the sun behind him. Which just again, it's an unbelievable, it just doesn't have to go that hard and it does. Let's just say, more generally,

this is one of the all-time great movie looks. Yes. Quint is just like a perfect looking character. And a lot of it is like Robert Shaw's face, his like captivating eyes. Big nose. Yes. But then like the facial hair, the outfit. The fucking hat with like the-

The weirdest bend in the brand. Yeah, the kind of very, the peak. Yes. But it's like off center and like a really sharp angle. There's the Indianapolis monologue, obviously. I mean, the shark sequence is incredibly exciting. The friggin fishing and it's thrilling somehow. Fishing's not thrilling.

But like the long sequence of Shaw setting up the fishing line. That process shit and then he just like quiet looking. No one's really paying attention to what he's doing. Prodigy, get behind me. Oh, yeah, when it's just like like, the little clicks of the thing. Yeah, and that belt, his whole harness. Yeah. I love that shit.

The barrel thing we mentioned, obviously, sort of a brilliant workaround that just, like, sort of makes the movie better. They introduced the idea of it's explosive. He's gonna do it. We'll get to it. The pressure tanks. Oh, yeah. He pulled the wrong side of wrong side of the sheep shank or whatever. And then we established that the tanks are explosive. What am I going to do?

It's jaws. They kill the shark. What do you want from me? I mean, it is true. It's a shark. It eats them. What do you want? Because there is-

It's the barrels. It's true that there is only so- Because in the book, everyone except for Brody dies. So Richard D'Arfis, Hooper dies too. And in the book, they just... It is one of the mirrors of this in Jurassic, where in both cases, you're the character who dies in the book. Let's have him make it to the end.

And they're the same character. Same sort of version of the... You're right. You're right. Right. But in the book also, they just sort of wound the shark enough that it finally dies. It's a little underwhelming. As Spielberg was like, I think we should like explode the shark. Really good idea.

You know what else is great about it? Smile, you son of a bitch. Sure. But also, I feel in the movie a catharsis to them blowing up this fucking thing. I mean, the blow up. Like these filmmakers. Right, where they're like, they never have to work with that thing again. Right, to be like, fucking picture wrap on shark, done.

100%. The obviously an underrated but such crucial little choice, and I'm not saying that we're done talking, but I just, you know, it's not just that they blow up the shark, but then that they paddle home afterwards like nice little boys. Letting the audience kind of go like, okay, you know, like, you know, as you're walking out, you're not just walking out with like, Jesus Christ,

I'm so rattled, like, but there is this sort of like sweetness. But there's that final shot and you're like, oh my god They're paddling buck back up onto lamb. We're gonna see you like Brody reunite with his wife We're gonna see the mayor apologize. I was like no no no and then very in for all that Surprising when credits start to fade in over that image, right? And it's just like a nice shot of the island. Yeah You don't even like see them paddling onto the beach and then walking off. She's like, oh, here's a nice shot of the island. Yeah. You don't even like see them paddling onto the beach and then walking off. It's just like, oh, here's a nice shot of the island.

I think it's made clear enough. We've made enough references for guest availability, recording order, timing, scheduling stuff. This and Jurassic are the two we recorded very close together. True. Out of order. Two very famous movies. But also they are so paired. They are.

And even like, I feel like Jurassic does this same thing of end the movie once they're getting away. Right. You know, all you need to see is just that they got back. Right. Right, this ends with they made it back to land, that ends with they're in the helicopter. You don't need to fucking resolve any of these things.

Yes. Right. No, we'll figure all that out with these, right? Yeah. Yeah. I like in that scene around the table where Quint and Hooper are finally getting their, Hopper or Hooper?

Hooper. Hooper. Hooper, I may have said Hopper earlier. Sure. The, oh fuck, sorry guys, really embarrassing. I like it when he, like offhand, in one of, like you know, they're telling all these war stories about how they got their scars or whatever that then leads to the big monologue, but at one point

Quint says something about like I got this one when I was out celebrating my third wife's demise Yeah, like that's just the lead-in to one of those stories. Then I like that Hooper gets him with the Yeah, Mary Ellen heartbroken right here. Like that Qu Quint really likes that. Quint likes a good joke. Mm-hmm. It is great to see after all the, like, you know, you got city hands too busy counting money all your life. Again, like, the class thing between them. Right.

To see them bond a little bit. To see them get along is really amazing. Yes. Yeah, the singing together. Yeah. But it's good that quint doesn't make it I think this is how quint should go. You should get eaten by the biggest shark there ever was. Yeah Does feel like this guy has been waiting for the release like it's part of what makes this performance so incredible is That like doesn't fall into like maniacally laughing with joy like finally But it does feel like it's a sense of inevitability

Why is this guy hunt sharks? Cuz the only way he can still get hard is to kill a fucking shark But also he just knows that someday a shark's gonna get yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like he should have died then right He should have died then and he didn't so he's got it. It's broken beyond repair. Yeah. Yes What are you looking up Griffin? I'll save it for if I pull it out in time. He goes out fighting too. We gotta honor that. Sure. That's true. He grabs that machete and he's like, yeah. Yeah, but it doesn't do much. The shark eats him.

I mean, that whole moment of the shark eating him, while also incredibly terrifying, is just really well played. And like, even with all of the inevitability of it, with him being like I'm just intentionally putting myself in situations in which I could get killed by a shark because that's what how I should have died he is still like this sucks I am terrified that this and I'm trying to make sure this shark doesn't

eat me yes yes yes um oh one more little magical thing, David. Yes. You know what, we're doing great. We're doing an incredible job. So there's a moment where Brody is in the foreground and Hooper's up on the top, up on the bridge behind them and a fucking meteor streaks behind them, which is a thing that I think

is the kind of magical shit that happens on a set that means you are going to make a movie that will last forever. You know what I mean? Oh, sure. Like, you can't plan for that, you can't, whatever, it's like at the end of Bart and Fink where the shot that they use for the last shot

is when that, like that, the, dives straight down into the ocean. Like, not planned, it just happened, and it happened to be framed perfectly, and now the movie's legendary. I think that that meteor is the kind of thing. It's like, even if you could put that in post, you wouldn't think to be like, what if a meteor was streaking behind them?

It just happened, and it's fucking magic. Yes. Yes. And, you know, you shoot 150 days. You're about to get... You end up getting a couple of miracles. You gotta get a couple of free ones. I was talking to a friend of the show, Alex Ross Perry, about just the state of legacy sequels and reboots,

and especially through the horror prism, right? I mean, the sort of like shift from franchises go on forever to the 2000s, we need to reset all these franchises to modern sensibilities, to now the, we need to return to the original timeline of franchises and bring everyone out for one final go-round. And I think we were talking about this in relation to like the failure of the Blumhouse exorcist experiment.

And is there anything that is still sacred? Is there anything that is actually never gonna be touched? And he put forth Jaws. He's like, Jaws feels like the one thing that everyone's like, you can't do it. And I said, isn't that so funny when there are three Jaws sequels? Yeah, but there's another one that's like that.

What? E.T. Yeah. The thing is, it's kind of Spielberg movies. And Indiana Jones exited that, but everything else kind of didn't. Yes. Now, even, there is one of my least favorite films

of the last decade, that insane E.T. Super Bowl commercial that was seven minutes long and brought Henry Thomas back right and was quote-unquote sanctioned by Spielberg to some degree where I was a little astonished Where it's like obviously like Spielberg will parody Jaws himself other people do it whatever But I was like I know it doesn't count. It's not a movie I was like how dare you rebuild the puppet for this? Yeah, there is like a purity to ET only

Existing on camera one time right in this one time period, but it is interesting It's something I've thought about a lot where something I think about the fact that they made three Jaws sequels The second one was successful though with a major drop-off, the third one had an even bigger drop-off, the fourth one got to the point where it was like, people hate this and it bombed. Where there was this feeling of like, oh, they made three, they made some money off of it,

no one fucking thinks about them again. Basically only like Jaws dorks who like, have the cultural memory of living through them and are fascinating with them as curios. It does feel like there's this collective sort of amnesia of like, Jaws is a perfect movie that exists in a vacuum. There is a... I wonder if part of this is, like, to what we were talking about right when we first started,

that it is, in a way, sort of so timeless and so perfect. If you were going to remake it, you might think like, oh, we have to put more blood and gore into it. But in a way, that shit is already there. The child exploding, the guy's leg hitting the bottom of the ocean. Like, it's horrifying. You can just make a shark movie, which they do. And that's sort of the thing with the Exorcist.

Like, just make an Exorcist movie. It doesn't have to be the Exorcist. The thing I found interesting, I don't know if JJ got into the dossier at all, but they obviously immediately wanted to do a sequel and fast track it, right? And Spielberg was kind of like, I don't want to fucking go back and do that shit again. And they were like, okay, cool. And like two times they circled back to the idea of doing the quaint Indianapolis movie.

Right, right. Which makes some sense. Which in certain ways you're like, is that worth unpacking? Isn't it better to let it live as the monologue? But on the other hand, you read about the other three movies and you're like, that probably would have been the smarter way to go. But it would have been quite a nasty movie.

Right, yeah. Yes. Jaws was a very big success at the box office. It was the biggest success. Ever? Of movies. Of all time. It was the biggest success. Ever? Of movies. Of all time. At that time.

Yes. Do you know this, Ben, that Jaws basically invented the wide release? Right. And now, of course, what we think of as a wide release, it was only like 480 theaters or whatever. Right. But this was the first time. Now, The Godfather had kind of started that a little bit, like started that concept, not the opening weekend,

but the like, let's go wide fast, and it'll make a lot of money. Right. But Jaws is like, let's open wide. Jaws is the like, the square one of opening weekend box office culture. Yes, it's the beginning of everything. We've obviously covered earlier movies

in the box office game. Yeah. But this is the first one where it's like, there is a business being built around marketing blitz telling people this movie will be playing in every state on this day. Wow. And you want to be there opening weekend. Was that accidental?

Was it creating like the idea of a summer blockbuster? Universal was very, very focused in their strategy. This was a brilliantly executed release outside of Spielberg or whatever. Yeah, Universal Like invented a new kind of release. They did unprecedented national TV spends for advertising that had never been done before there is Toys sort of like beach towels blankets board games things like that for the listener David Dismissively gestured in Griffin's direction Games like that for the listener David dismissively gestured in Griffin's direction You probably could hear that but I just want to say it the film made a hundred million dollars Which was no movie had ever done right the Godfather was the record holder at eighty six million dollars jaws beat it. Yeah

What was the jaws budget? The listed budget I think is like nine million dollars I may have been gone over that I read think I read that Jaws 2 ended up costing $30 million, which was the most expensive movie by a significant margin at that point in time. That's a little bit... But Jaws 2, it reads like almost had an even more disastrous production.

But yes, it does feel like the... Robert Evans was sort of using Godfather as this guinea pig of like, is there a different way to release movies? Is there a way to like maximize the money by like doing it front-loaded rather than the long tail word of mouth thing? And I think it was also tied to both of these things being based off of bestselling books

and having some like, it is kind of a strongly built in IP culture and like this sort of shit. But it did feel like Universal saw the Godfather thing, which happened in a much smaller way, and was like, what if we committed all the fucking way to this? And it also makes the summer movie a thing,

which obviously for this, it was tied into like, we should release this in the summer, it's a beach movie. Right. This might just be ignorance on my end. Were all movies at that point released in the way that we see like these like Oscar plays They would just be like release them in a city let word of mouth and they would bring it to Cleveland It wasn't like road shows exactly but much smaller releases and right like a very slow spreading over weeks and yes

Okay, yeah And like you know they movies would have their big premiere in New York But the premiere would be a thing that people could buy tickets to. That was sort of like what we now think of as like a road show screening where there was like a pamphlet and you had, there's a dress code, but you're seeing it at one of the big, grand Broadway single screen movie palaces

along with the stars. And that would be the press of like, this movie is premiering. And then you read it in your wish-top paper and you're like, I wonder when it's coming here, you know? And it was less of a coordinated, oh, it's slowly expanding market to market and more like when is your local theater negotiating

to get a print of this movie? There was not the same sort of set intentionality. Godfather started to build in the intentionality, but it wasn't opening weekend. It was building a little bit, and then when are we gonna go super wide and tell people Godfather is everywhere? The film opened June 20th, 1975. Number one at the box office.

Wow. Number two at the box office is a sequel, Griffin. Number two at the box office is a sequel. A comedy sequel. In 1975, it's a comedy sequel. Yes. It is the fourth in a series. Is the fourth? A long long unwieldy series.

In a long unwieldy series. How many did they make in total? New Year's Eve of this year. It will no longer be the year that... This is a weird series, Griffin. It's hard to explain, but I think nine technically. You think it's nine, but it's... It's not always the same star. It's not always the same. Oh, it's a fucking Clueso movie. Yes. It's the fourth.

It's the fourth. Is it The Pink Panther Strikes Again? No, it is The Return of the Pink Panther. The Pink Panther Strikes Again is the fifth. And this is the one with Sellers returning because he wasn't in the film Inspector Cluso. Despite playing that character, this film was a major commercial hit. And it had been number one for I think several weeks. Big franchise.

Yes. So that's number two. Number three is a new Hollywood film. We mentioned it, it got an Oscar nomination for two. For two, but not one of the best picture nominees. No, it was not a best picture nominee. Very like, just a prototypical new Hollywood movie. Got acting nominations?

Yeah. Yeah? Shampoo? Shampoo. Shampoo. Right, that's just like the most new Hollywood movie where you're like, what's it about? And it's like, I don't know, Warren Beatty fucks people and it's like kind of about Richard Nixon.

Right. It's like, but really it's like about a horny hairdresser. And you're like, what's it based on? You're like kind of John Peters, but also just baby fucking the actresses in the movie. Warren Beatty. It's like an oral spore. Number four at the box office is a roadie drama, road drama. A road drama.

Never seen it, but starring a famous sort of road actor, I would say. He's in other road movies. He's in other road movies? I'm not sure how helpful a clue that is. It's not a Burt Reynolds. No, no, no. It's not that famous.

Okay. Is it Dennis Hopper? No, no. It's not Steve McQueen? Less famous, less famous. But he's in movies we've covered. He's in movies we've covered. Like horror movies. Is it Paul Hopper? No, no, Jesus. It's not Steve McQueen? Less famous, less famous, less famous, less famous. But he's in movies we've covered. He's in movies we've covered. Like horror movies.

Is it Paul Lamatt? Paul Lamatt. It's a Lamatt picture? Yes. And it's a roadie drive. Am I not gonna know the title of this one? I don't know. I sort of know the title, I've never seen the film.

What's it called? Aloha, Bobby and Rose. Don't know the title. Yeah, I just know that title because it's kind of a famous title, weird sounding title, but I don't think it's like a well liked movie. Number five at the box office is a classic like Quentin Tarantino movie. Like a crazy sort of exploitation film that people forgot about and he sort of references

Is it Rolling Thunder? No, that's probably one of the most famous versions of that. Can you give me a like-genre of exploitation? It's like a historical... It's not the original in Glorious Basterds. No. It's historical. He's referencing it more in Django.

He's referencing it more in Django. It's not Mandingo. It's Mandingo. It's Mandingo. Uh, yeah. Yeah, I would say he's referencing that film most in Django Unchained. Quite a lot in Django Unchained. If I'm thinking across his filmography.

You weren't gonna get it otherwise, I mean. No, no, no. David, I wasn't critiquing the hint. No, there are other movies. You've got the Tony Curtis movie Lepke, which I've never seen, where he plays this famous Jewish-American gangster, sort of a forgotten movie directed by Manahem Golan, the film producer. Oh, weird.

Never seen it. You've got Woody Allen's Love and Death, which is one of his early funny ones, if you guys have ever heard that phrase before. You've got Torso. What is that? Huh. What is that? It's the top part of your body.

Okay, it looks like an Italian Jaller movie. Yeah, sort of like top part, sort of like waist to chest. Yeah, you've got, Torso is an early Jaller that's like a slasher movie. Okay. You've got the wind and the lion. What is that? John Milius movie, like, oh yeah, like a,

yes, it was Sean Connery movie, I've never seen that. That's the prequel to the, Wind of the Willows? That Killian Murphy movie. Oh, the Barley. The Fakes of Connery and we've I've never seen that that's the prequel to the Killian Murphy movie We all had a version and then you have And then number ten is a movie called the groove tube which is like a low-budget comedy with Chevy Chase Absolutely. Yeah, never seen that and bells the bells is in it. Yeah. That's his first movie, Chevy. Right, because this is...

I think it's a Kentucky Fried movie type of thing. Well, SNL starts that fall. No, SNL's 74 or 75. 1975. Yeah, right. Of course, it's SNL 75, right? Yeah. But yeah, like, I mean, a fun mix of stuff.

Not exactly a bunch of masterpieces, I will say. No. Jaws kind of bursting into, I guess, a sleepier time of year. And this is sort of inventing the summer movie too. Yeah. Now, what does it ultimately make, Jaws? It's sort of hard. I think it's like 130 in the initial run.

It's had many re-releases and stuff. It's like total now is like almost 500 mil. It would get re-released every year. Right. But it holds the record until Star Wars. Holds the record until Star Wars, which, and Star Wars is beaten by ET, and then they kind of trade off for years with re-releases until Jurassic Park. Yes. Yes, and then Titanic.

Yes. Well, and then Star Wars re-release sneaks back up there for six months before Titanic knocks it off. Yeah. Bit silly. And now it's currently first Avatar or second Avatar? Uh, isn't it now once again the first Avatar Avengers end game had it for a while, but then Avatar took it back? Yes, but domestically it's still Force Awakens. Okay. I'm gonna pee. I'm gonna have to run out of here. Before you pee, Saturday, May 11th,

letterboxed the group chat. Tim Simons. That which is the name of our chat with the wonderful Tim Simons. There's a separate chat we have which on fantasy called News and Deals. Which I always laugh when you talk about every time we text on that thread, I have had one less sex. You said that on the show. Very good.

Tim Simons, who has a recommendation for a movie that is like National Treasure but isn't National Treasure? David, like a family adventure film? Tim, yes, kind of grown-ups, so they will feel like grown-ups but not insane scary. David, Mask of Zorro. David, oh Tim, did I tell you my wife is pregnant with twin boys?

Tim, all caps, what? David, yeah dude. Tim, wait, is this true? Oh my God, congratulations. David sends picture, if. Tim, wait, is this true? Oh my god. Congratulations. David sends picture for John identical. We don't know. Tim says, oh my god I can't wait to hear twin dad David in the second hour of a three and a half hour podcast about blue chips where Griffin is talking about the Wendy's soda cup tie-ins for some movie he hated when he was 11. And David responds,

the most devastatingly accurate text I have ever received. Griffin, that's beautifully done, and it beautifully sets up me running out of the studio in five seconds, but I'm about to go pee. My man, good luck, is what Tim says. See, that wasn't such a bad reaction, though. No, I do think... Other people have told me, like,

oh, yeah, that'll ruin your life forever. Yes. I was trying to be gentle. Tim, anything you wanna plug? I would just, I've actually, like, so short answer is, like, no, like I always, like whenever it comes time to plug things, I'm always just like, I don't know, like follow me on Instagram,

cause I don't do it a lot, but I usually put the stuff that's happening on there. I kind of don't wanna plug anything, but also I have heard it's good to plug a podcast when you were on a podcast So I do a podcast with Matt Walsh called second in command We were a VB rewatch podcast, but we have completed that endeavor and now we have moved on to doing Movies that only have presidents or vice presidents in them because we enjoy each other's company And even though it is financially, well, largely unsuccessful,

we still really enjoy doing it. So you can listen to that, which is a podcast. There's a link in the episode description. Oh, thank you. We're all going to be on it. You may, by the time this comes out, you may have been on it. Maybe. Yes, we called our shots last night.

Is the president in Beavis and Butthead do America. Probably. I don't know. Probably. Bill Clinton doesn't. That is the kind of thing that will fit the... Yeah, you should take that. Your purview is a broad. Yes, it's a broad purview. Tim, thank you for being here. You're the best. You guys are the best. I love you so much. Love you so much, Tim. Next week on the show, let's see, Steven Spielberg follows up Jaws, which is kind of like a small kind of one for him.

Oh no, he makes Close Encounters. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, Close Encounters. Yeah. And coming up on the Patreon in a few days, we have, of course, the second installment in our Jelly mini-series. We have Mickey Blue Eyes. That's wild.

It's wild to think about a future will soon be in where that is happening. That's true. Yeah's wild to think about a future will soon be in where that is happening. That's true Yeah, stay tuned for that Thank you again for being here Tim and as always my pleasure. I'm fucking getting here. I got twins to get back home, too Is that cuz you have to take two shits? Steel book joke, but that's way better. Yeah. -♪ ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYING -♪ Um, can I just say, David, um, I like to think about the years that, like, around New Year's, like, January 1st, January 2nd,

I like to think about the thing that I will miss most about that particular year. Okay. And there was, like, there was one year where I will miss most about that particular year. Okay. And there was like, there was one year where I saw a play called Wakey Wakey on Broadway that, or no, it was off Broadway that Will Eno wrote. And it was like a very profound experience. Right, I've heard of it.

Yeah, and like, I think it was 2018. And I remember at the end of 2018, I was like, I'm very sad that this year is ending because this will no longer be the year that I saw wakey wakey. And I remember that the end of 2022, I thought to myself, I'm sad that this year is ending because it will no longer be the year that I saw David get so disappointed. He had to do ad reads after we had talked about the shining for three hours. The level, we're not doing ad reads today. The level.

Not going to fucking happen. The way you fell, your entire body, your entire voice was like, I can't believe I now have to keep talking. And it was like, it was a really beautiful, honest moment. I'm just going to say something though. I think Jaws we will not talk for about Jaws as long not because Jaws isn't a big movie Just because it's You know, it doesn't go as deep as the shining like that's not an offense to Jaws Ben You're already recording right like I feel like this is this is kind of a thing to consider All right, do you just keep all of this in at the end of the episode. Yeah, okay.

Three and a half hours. No, no. I'm joking. But definitely keep all of that in at the end of the episode. Okay, ready?