Blank Check with Griffin & David - John Carpenter’s Vampires with David Ehrlich

Episode Date: November 21, 2021

They’re not just Vampires, they’re John Carpenter’s Vampires!  “Closer in patina” to a classic Howard Hawks western than anything Carpenter’s ever done, this film is nasty, gruesome, and devoid of any of the “teenyboppers” and romanticism that had become hallmarks of the slasher and vampire genres, respectively. David Ehrlich (Indiewire) joins us as we go deep into the woods - James Woods, that is - and come out with the least memorable Baldwin brother. Strada Chocolata! Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

Blank Jack with Griffin and David Blank Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Jack Forget whatever you've seen in the movies. They't turn to bats crosses don't work garlic you want to try garlic you could stand there with garlic around your neck and one of these buggers will bend you fucking over and take a walk up your strata chuckalotta while he's sucking the blood out of your neck all right and they don't sleep in coffins lined in taffeta you want to

kill one you drive a wooden stake right into his fucking heart. Podcast turns him into crispy critters. It had to be that. It did, but also, God, it's so hard to do a James Woods impression. I gave up one word in. You could live for a good one. Or be undead for 600 years. But I would say you truly haven't lived until you've heard James Woods say strata chocolata. Strata chocolata.

I had to cut a couple lines out from the beginning of that monologue. For the best. Yes. This man, this character, Jack Crowe, does not like homosexuals, and he lets it be known all the time.

In fact, he almost seems to find them to be more demonic than vampires. You could say that it's one of his two personality traits. Well, I mean... He wears leather and hates gay people yeah he's afraid you know he deals with vampires more probably terrified sort

of knows what he's dealing with right i was thinking though because initially in my my notes i wrote down gay panic question mark at the first line and immediately had to scratch out the question mark but it then veers so far beyond. And then scratch out panic for fear. It goes so far beyond gay panic where it's just outright homophobia. I was going to say, it's like vampire hunters. It doesn't feel like he's panicking.

It's like, no, I very confidently know I don't like these people. I don't respect the way they choose to live their lives and who they love. He's most upset because Vlad the Impaler, whatever the fucking vampire's name is, Jan Valak. Valak. Valak is Vlad the Impaler, whatever the fucking vampire's name is, Jan Valak. Valak!

Valak is Vlad the Impaler. Whatever. This is embarrassing. Get out of here. Like, vaguely resembles a gay stereotype. Like, that's really, I think, what keeps him up at night.

The most triggering thing. Look, he reminds him of his two least favorite things in the world. The creatures that killed his mother and some guys he had to walk past on a street outside a bar one time and he never got over it yeah which you know when james woods found out that he was in this movie five years later he was completely unconcerned about he was like yeah

no i was just being much yourself yeah james woods james woods yeah cool guy that we're going to talk about on this podcast i think it's only the second time we've gone into the woods on this podcast what was what's one of the other on this podcast. What's the other? Hercules. Hercules. Which is easier to talk about. Also a good performance, though. Great performance.

I mean, David, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you have said that he's unfortunately one of your favorite actors. I've always. On mic before. I have always. I'm trying to remember when he became. Regrettably. Yes. He is one of your favorite.

When I feel like, when was it that he became so was it trump or was it like a little before trump when he kind of was like became just sort of publicly evil yeah well i was like i feel like before then it was sort of like james was that guy's kind of an asshole but like i remember seeing white house down sure and feeling like his last major right and also feeling like oh I haven't seen him on screen in like four or five years. And at that point, it was kind of funny that he was cast that way because you're like, you already know that James Woods is this weird, angry, reactionary guy. I think it all got heightened even more past that point.

The Trump shit got worse. I think Twitter is really what Twitter is. Well, sure. Yeah. Some of these guys just should never have gotten Twitter. He never should have gotten Twitter. He was the only person whose true, you know, inner cynicism came out thanks to the help of social media.

I have a theory that it was after The Virgin Suicides in which he plays the most mild-mannered, but still aggressive person, but that he put, I mean, I don't think that the dad in that character is necessarily a great man or a great father, but he did put like whatever last embers of decency he had

in that movie for safekeeping it's like the glow drains from his body and goes into that film and then that was it yeah when was he in that movie Pretty Persuasion doesn't he play a total jerk he's like a creep right isn't he like a fucking adult who sleeps with Evan Rachel Wood

yes David can you I should clarify we have two Davids this episode I'm getting ahead of myself He's like a creep, right? Isn't he like a fucking adult who sleeps with Evan Rachel Wood? Yes. Right. Yes. David, can you... I should clarify. We have two Davids this episode. I'm getting ahead of myself. Mr. Sims, would you mind,

as I introduce the podcast, pulling up what James Woods does in between Virgin Suicides and White House Death? I have it for you here. Okay. Because this is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David.

I'm Griffin. I'm David. Which one? Sims. I'm Griffin Newman. And it's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks. Make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce. Baby. Man, does this director we're talking about really illustrate that concept? He's like a basketball. Yeah. You know, just going up and down. Right.

Sure. And these last five movies are very much like, we should let him make it. That guy made some great movies, right? Bounce. Right. It's just multiple bounces. But he's John Carpenter. I mean, this movie made its budget back domestically.

So I guess. By a hair. But, you know, and then I'm like, this feels like the kind of movie probably did okay on the old vhs market right you know two direct-to-video sequels hey los muertos i remember los muertos being one of those like always there at the video of its day vampires the turning is the other one i do not know that one it's weird there's this and then there's west craven presents dracula 2000 both of which I feel like were mocked when they came out and had successful direct-to-video sequels. Which also Dracula 2000 fully came out

in like 1998, right? Yes. That's what was so odd. Blues Brothers 2000 also comes out in 1998. People were just jumping the gun. They were so hyped for 2000. You know who the star of Vampires 2 is, right? Of Los Muertos? I think Los Muertos is 3. Am I wrong about Los Muertos? I think Los Muertos is 3.

Am I wrong about this? You are wrong. Los Muertos is 2. And it stars... Jon Bon Jovi. I did know that. I did know that. Is the star.

He's the vampire hunter. He's the vampire hunter. And it's too late. Yes, I did know that. Natasha Drexen Wagner is in it. Hey! 10 comedy points. That was really good.

A full 10? It almost got lost. It almost fell between the cracks. I wasn't going to let that happen. Apparently Diego Luna is in it. Hey! Ten comedy points. That was really good. It almost got lost. It almost fell between the cracks. I wasn't going to let that happen. Apparently Diego Luna is in it. He is. Cassian Andor himself. Right.

And then in Vampires, The Turning. Okay. We've got Colin Egglesfield. I don't know who that is. You know who Colin Egglesfield is. No, I don't. I'm sure you do. We all know who Colin Egglesfield is.

He was in Something Borrowed. I don't He was in something borrowed He was in something borrowed He was supposed to be a guy He's in Must Love Dogs But you must You must I guess I also get I guess the From Dusk Till Dawn

Direct-to-Video sequels were real This movie is also Kind of a From Dusk Till Dawn Rip-off It's at least like That movie did okay so I'll greenlight were a real like industry is also like a kind of a dust from dust till dawn like rip off like it's at least like that movie did okay so I'll green light your sort of vampire western that's super violent right weird it's weird

especially because dust till dawn's whole legacy was that like no one knew this was a vampire movie what a surprise which is I mean it is one of my greatest genres I ever had to see truly one of the great genres of movies. We are not going to tell you what this really is until the end of the second act. Yes, for like 45 minutes.

When Gustav Dahl had two sequels and then a TV series, right? So it's really had a long time. I feel like no one's really doing that these days. I mean, it's sort of incompatible with the complete... It really has good subtitles, too. Texas Blood Money and The Hangman's Daughter? Right, and I think that one's a prequel. One of them's actually a prequel.

That would be even better, though, if that was just the subtitle of one film. Is there not... It's called... Texas Blood Money and The Hangman's Daughter. It's like a Bob Dylan song. And The Crimes of Grindelwald. Is there not still the DTV market with the...

We talked about this. Yeah, we had. I don't care about the DTV movies as much as I do about the movies that present as one thing and then become another. Oh, sure, sure, sure. And I think that in our

super transparent online culture, it's hard to get away with that. There's only one guy who does it, baby. Who dat? M. Night. Oh, sure.

He'll do it. Not always. Not always. But he is capable of doing it. I mean, I mean, Split is that as a twist ending and I would argue Unbreakable in terms of how it. I mean, I mean, like split is that as a twist ending.

And I would argue unbreakable in terms of how it was marketed was that where it's not until an hour in where you go like, this is a fucking superhero movie. Now everyone knows, oh, that's a superhero closest analog that we have on even a semi-regular basis. These days are the a 24 horror movies that they sort of deliberately

mismark it. But that's the thing. That's the difference is I don't think that's those filmmakers trying to get the audience. That's A24 being like, we can do fucking a million people. Parasite has the hinge point moment where the movie totally changes. But I don't know if it like completely,

it's not like a from dust to dawn, where the genre to whole of it changes. Right. The genre tonal thing, I think is a big. But I mean, Parasite definitely does have that moment. Absolutely.

Which is so right, where you're like, okay, this is turning into're like okay I would have loved to have seen Lamb not even knowing you know that it was supposed to be a horror film I mean that is a movie that really does beyond the marketing sort of take its time to play its cards but while you're on the computer you should

go I think this could be a Patreon goal for you guys you should go onto James Woods Twitter feed and you should... Has he been banned? No, no. He is back, and he is constantly tweeting about three things. One, of course, is animals, which he loves.

Two is the American flag, which he cries over. There's a tweet from September 11th of this year where he sees an American flag on a crane, and he goes, sorry, my eyes are getting dusty. And three, of course, is poker, but now you can and should stake him at the World Series of Poker.

No, I'm not going to stake him, but I will. Wait a second. You don't want to make threats against that guy. You might want to get that out. Bleep it. Hold on, we've got to bleep that. Bleep it.

Don't bleep it. So there's the implication that I have said something it bleep it don't bleep it so there's the implication that i have said something but no one knows the specifics of it we should say famously james woods someone tweeted at him with like 10 followers and said like you washed up coke head and he sued them saying i've never used coke in my life and then in the years that the lawsuit was dragging out for defamation the guy died the guy died and they for defamation. The guy died. The guy died, and Woods has refused to drop the case and has demanded settlement payout

from the family. One of the many fun entries in the legal issues section of his Wikipedia page, which is longer than you would want it to be for yourself. Which is dense. Here's the thing I want to say

about James Woods' poker career, moving off of the other stuff, the flag and the Twitter. He's on a great episode of, was it called Celebrity Poker Showdown? The one that Dave Foley hosted. Which was my favorite show. One of the greatest television shows in the history of the film medium. With cards. Was so good.

And my roommate, Phil, and I used to watch it in college, religiously. And he is a very committed poker player and he's on one of the earlier episodes with four other people who are celebrities who clearly know the rules of poker sure you know but are not particularly involved poker players and he's sort of like yeah i mean you know it's for charity y'all do it you know and then like one hand in he like busts out or like a very early he's like, nothing that they were doing was logical. All of the bets they made made no sense. When I would see their cards, I'd be like, wait, why did you do it? Because

they're all just like, yeah, sure, I got some red ones. I'll bet a hundred. And Woods is like, okay, well, clearly you have this. I know how poker works. It's a very funny episode. He's not amused. I know how I could be James Woods in poker.

Wear sunglasses with American flags on the lenses. He can't see the cards. What do I have? Look, anyway, as Griffin, you were reading me for Phil, but I've said it on this podcast. I have always been a huge James Woods fan as an actor when I was younger. Not a huge James Woods fan as a human being. No, but your thing you've always said,

and I think we all have these people for us, right? Where you're like, I hate the fact that I find him so compelling on screen. I wish I did not find him so compelling on screen. For me, Saddam Hussein. Look, he's good on screen. He's amazing in Hot Shots Part 2. The first time I probably was aware of James

was probably his Simpsons appearance which is so funny to this day yeah he's so funny he's so game I think he used to be a more game person he's done like 15 episodes of the Family Guy

seems completely humorless I think yeah he's had some whatever he's, you know, had some, whatever. He's changed. He's funny, yeah. But if you want... Hercules was my first exposure.

That was... That probably worked for me, too. If you want me to now run down his sort of early aughts... Sure, I'd like to just quickly say this is a miniseries

on the films of John Carpenter. It's called They Podcast and our guest today is a... Second David? Hence me demanding your last name. Sure. Returning to the show from Andy Weier, It's called a podcast. And our guest today is a second David. Hence me demanding your last name. Return to the show from Andy Weier. Our good friend, David Erlich.

He's here. I'm here. I'm in the tomb. You're in the tomb. Welcome to the tomb. We're calling Ben's apartment the tomb. It's a working title. Because of the mummy.

Yeah. Well, has there been a mummy you haven't been able to get rid of or something? This is a walk. I'm really behind on my podcast. I am on most Do you listen to your podcast? I was walking over here. I'm really behind on my podcast, as I am on most podcasts. We used to... David and I both... I used to keep up with it.

We used to be like DeMarco. Every night, you close down DeFar's pizza shop. You need to try a slice to make sure the product's still good. Exactly. And I think in the last two years, both of us have been like, I never want to hear my voice ever again. A little bit of that. A little bit of that.

Recording the show in real time gives me anxiety. Give me about six months. I will listen to an episode from about six months ago and often be like, oh, okay, sure. But I need a little more distance now than I did before.

Yeah. I've never listened to any podcast. Fighting the War Room. Every podcast I've ever been on. Great podcast that you're on that I always plug for you because you always forget to plug. That's the sound of my voice.

Fighting the War Room. It makes me nauseated and I know I'm not alone in that. But I will say that this is one of the least tomb like places I've ever that's a lovely home there's a mahogany glass case 10 feet tall curio cabinet

I mean it's a place for just and lovely antique plates it is easily the least tomb like place we have ever recorded the podcast and some real fucking tombs. I remember when Audioboom moved us to that Studio B

or whatever it was. And we like short-circuited. We were like, bury this episode. Delete it. It's unlistenable. That's the swing shift. You guys did that one special episode. We were focused. Recorded that one episode from the basement from Prince of Darkness. We did. We did do that. In the vial. The Wonder Woman episode that we just recorded in my kitchen because the

scheduling was so insane and we sound like we're in a submarine. Yes. Yeah, we do. Anyway. Three episodes where I lost my own audio and sounded like I was in a submarine. That's true. That's true. But this is a miniseries called In the Mount Pods of Madcast, right?

I wish. I wish. You know what's the thing thing I really enjoyed recently. Anytime there's any mainstream thing with a horribly sweaty title, people now just tag me and go, did you write this? So like all the fucking Hulu wean and Peacocktober, I mean,

Peacocktober, that's, that's great. That's a fucking slam dunk. Absolutely. But the, uh, what is it?

Uh, uh, a time in a needle stack. What the fuck is that movie called? Needle in a Time Stack. Everyone's crediting me with coming up with that title. You? Yeah, they're like, that sounds like some sweaty griff shit.

That's true. Potscape from Newcast. Truly sweaty. Be tough to find. Needle in a Time Stack, baby. Well, anyway, welcome to the tomb. Oh, thanks. Pleasure to be here.

James Woods is, I believe, top billed in The Virgin Suicides. Yes. I believe so. Which is amazing. Which is really, in a career that I, in my opinion, is storied with many incredible performances. One of his best. Sure. A performance that profoundly moves me. He was also in True Crime that year, The General's Daughter,

and Any Given Sunday, and Play It to the Bone. It's one of those things where, like... That's a huge year. only moves me uh he was also in true crime that year the general's daughter and any given sunday and play it to the bone it's one of those things that's a huge year he would just take those supporting roles like he was a fairly you know like he he seemed to accept like i'm not an a-list star anymore like fairly early wait fuck now there's some other movie we've covered him on that i'm forgetting where you're surprised that he's like seventh build and he's just like in it and he's not the focus and he's not the and I'll figure out what it is. Yeah, I don't give him too much credit

contact. Thank you. Yeah, but that's one where you're like he's not uncredited where you're like, I guess he's sort of the villain, but really this is just like the eighth lead. Like yeah, I would venture a guess to say that contact is one of contact and John Carpenter's vampires are the roles that are probably closest to who James Woods is in real life. And White House Down.

And White House Down. Wow, White House Down. That's why I'm placing that as a final pillar. That's the point of no return. I don't want to give him too much credit, but there is a vague sense when you read off the titles that he was in towards the late 90s, the string of high-profile movies, that some part of him recognized that he was in the death throes of an era where a James Woods could get regular work. It was going to be hard for him to

escape the 90s. I mean, that 99 burst is him going like, I got to get while the getting's good. I don't know if I'm going to cross over. So in 2001, he's in five movies again. Okay. After taking a break in 2000, I guess he was enjoying the millennium. A one-year break. Recess schools out. Apparently he's a voice in that. I guess he was enjoying the millennium. A one-year break. Recess schools out.

Apparently, he's a voice in that. He's the villain. He plays fourth period. Final Fantasy, The Spirits Within. Apparently, he's a voice in that. I believe he's the villain in that as well. Quite possibly. I mean, you know, Hollywood. Was Ben Affleck the hero in that? Or did the guy just look like Ben Affleck? No, Alec Baldwin looks like Ben Affleck.

Right, it's uncanny. He's in Scary Movie 2. I remember that being a one scene performance funny you know famously parody famously that was supposed to be Marlon Brando they announced that they were paying him like seven million dollars for the one scene Marlon Brando showed up on set it was it was an absurd salary

maybe I'm overselling a little bit but it was like millions of dollars for one scene it was such a big announcement of like why is he doing fucking scary movie two? He showed up on set with the oxygen tank and they were like, Marlon, you can't do this. So James Woods was the sub in for Brando.

Who then is dead by the time the movie comes out. He died right around there. Yeah. Somewhere around there. He's also in Riding in Cars with Boys. Is that sort of a virgin suicide scene? He's the dad. I think he's the dad.

Something that his character in Vampires would almost never do. That's true. Well, he rides in cars with I think he's the dad. John Normal dad. Something that his character in Vampires would almost never do. That's true. Well, he rides in cars with men. With men, yes. He's in something called Race to Space.

That sounds like an IMAX documentary or something like that. No, it's like, there's like a monkey in a space suit on the cover. Okay, okay. And then, you know, 2002, John Q and Stuart Little, too.

He's the voice of a falcon. I remember that. He's the villain in that. John Q, I believe he plays the surgeon who they're trying to get to perform the surgery. Sure. That's one of the few Denzel's I've never seen. But that's another one where he plays sort of like a kind, good...

Yeah, I don't know. You ain't seen John Q. In 2003, he's in North Fork, directed by the then-celebrated indie Polish Brothers and now kind of like MAGA Red Pill Polish brothers. He's directing the Gina Carano, Ben Shapiro movie? He's in something called This Girl's Life, 2005 Pretty Persuasion, and Be Cool. Okay.

So Pretty Persuasion's him leaning full into Creep. And Be Cool is coasting off 90s vibes. Right. And then after, now we're getting into movies I've never heard of. Something called Endgame with Cooper Gooding Jr. And Angie Harmon and looks like a bunch of people with guns outside the Capitol. Right. These like obvious attack shelter movies.

Yeah, exactly. He was a voice in Surf's Up. OK. He's in the Straw Dogs remake. Oh, yes. But apparently in a small role. Yeah. And then it's like White House down. He's in Jobs. The, you know, we're like jumping ahead. I mean in a small role. Yeah. And then it's like White House down.

He's in Jobs. The, you know, we're like jumping ahead. I mean, there's no, I'm not jumping ahead. No, that's what I'm saying. I'm jumping ahead in years. I know I'm skipping over credits, but like White House down. He hadn't been on screen. Well, you're forgetting one thing.

Am I forgetting? Shark on CBS is Shark. He was Shark. I'm the Shark. A show that I, as a James Woods fan, when it debuted, I was like, I'm all shark um a show that i as a james woods fan when it debuted i was like i'm all in on this show and then i think like two episodes and i was like this is a bad procedural but i can't let it go am i misremembering that spike lee directed the pilot for shark you are not misremembering that you are remembering correctly directed the pilot for shark that's kind of spike

lee's doldrum period. It's post-Inside Man. Where he's like, I had a hit and no one will hire me. Exactly. Where I think he was like, why am I not getting major? So he makes a couple pilots. You know, he does stuff. He's talked about how flummoxed he was.

Where he was like, that was my biggest hit movie. I like delivered it under budget, on time. It fucking worked. and I couldn't get the sequel made and no one would hire me to make another big movie. Well, he did The Shark Pilot. I wonder how mad

James Woods was that he couldn't play the Barry Pepper role in 25th Hour, which feels like a real James Woods type. Well, he's too old for that. But if that movie

had been made... Barry Pepper, he's playing an asshole. He talks about how big his dick is all the time. But he's supposed to be contemporary. No, but what I'm saying is how angry he was that that project didn't exist when he was 30. He would have been good.

Would have been great. And you know who else is good? Barry Pepper. I hope he's not... He's not canceled, right? No, I think... We like Pepper, right? I mean, Barry Pepper just seems suspect

after Battlefield Earth and just the general vibe of Barry Pepper. No, but we shouldn't slander him. I don't know. No, I think Barry Pepper upsets his citizen.

I think... Come on the show, Barry Pepper. Much like Forrest Whitaker took Battlefield for the pay. And the love. And the love. He's in Crawl.

He's great in Crawl. Love that movie. I am always happy when he pops up in something it does not happen very often always apparently he met Creech he's in monster sharks oh boy I

blows in that everyone's in that everyone's cast everyone with with pepper and everyone okay so yeah I do I mean obviously

I was introduced to James Woods through The Simpsons and Hercules but you know I need a minute to get over Creech I'm sorry I just need like a quick Creech break

did either of you ever meet Creech no I did I went at 10am on a Saturday morning for the press screening I stayed to meet Creech stayed as far away

from I wore a tuxedo. You guys have both seen the photos of what creature originally. Yes, I know. I'm aware of the saga. Just one of the all time great stories.

If I can recount this very quickly was they make this fucking movie in which a monster lives in a truck and a kid bonds with his monster truck and they screen

the finished movie and kids like run out of the theater screaming it's like bloody murder screech right and Paramount was like we have to fix this frame and you can see if you google original creature design they put that in the fucking movie and screened it for five-year-olds it's incredible but it

looks like in the Mouth of Madness shit. It looks like The Wall of Monsters. Yeah. I love him in Videodrome, Once Upon a Time in America. You know, a lot of those 80s movies. So he played a Jew. In Once Upon a Time in America.

I mean, because there was just a time where Hollywood was hog wild in so many different respects in terms of casting. He also played Rudy Giuliani. Yes. Does he strike you as Rudy Giuliani-ish? Yes, he does. No, he doesn't.

In his soul. He also played... Maybe in his soul. I don't want to tell too... He also is Haldeman in Nixon, which he has been passing. He played a man who I grew up with. H.R. Haldeman. H.R. Haldeman.

No, he played... Hades. When I was growing up. I was going to make that same joke when i was growing up my best friend was uh dick fold son uh dick was the ceo yeah i gotta double back to this as well the man's name is dick fold this guy's dick fold f-u-l-d he was the ceo of leman brothers uh oh okay and uh james he plays him in in too big to fail he's really good in F-U-L-D. He was the CEO of Lehman Brothers. Oh, okay. And James... He plays him in Too Big to Fail. He's really good in that.

He plays him in Too Big to Fail. He's in a lot of TV. I guess I'm forgetting that he really became kind of an HBO movie guy. I think it was surprising to see him in White House down just because you're like, he's in a fucking movie. I used to go when I was like six years old and I was having sleepovers at their house. I had no idea who he was or what he did.

And, you know, I would knock on his door at 6 a.m. or six in the morning. No, whatever. Six hours after I went to sleep at some time in the night. Sure. When I decided that I was homesick and wanted to go see my parents. It was like 2 a.m.

And I would say, hello, not knowing that he was the CEO of Lehman Brothers. And he would drive you home and be like, David, everything's going fine, but it's a delicate balance. One fucking a piece gets removed yeah oh boy you don't want to know and you're like huh and he's like don't worry about it don't worry about it it's like three in the morning he just got a phone call from tokyo and he's like oh god but as someone myself who grew up to be kind of introverted it's just so funny to me to picture my six-year-old self knocking on the door

of the ceo of leaving brothers be like drive me home at 3 a.m i just so funny to me to picture my six-year-old self knocking on the door of the CEO of Believe in Brothers and be like, drive me home at 3 a.m. I just can't believe with a name like Dick Fold, he wasn't a performer in Puppetry of the Penis. It's just like such a layup.

I don't know what he did in his off time. Well, yeah. Anyway. Dick Fold. Well, he sure folded it. James Woods is the star of John Carpenter's Vampires.

The movie we're talking about today. Now, Ben. Yeah? I know you've been doing a lot of extracurricular work throughout this main series. You've been reading your big Carpenter tome. But I don't know if you read the dossiers when JJ, our researcher, sends them to us.

Did you see anywhere what the title of when JJ, our researcher, sends them to us, did you see anywhere what the title of the book this movie is based on is? No. Well, so, I'm gonna tell you the title and you're gonna go like, uh-uh? Yep. The title is Vampires. Oh. Okay, well, that's the name

of the movie. Whatever. It's not called John Carpenter's Vampires because it's a book. But wait, there's a spelling difference here. Go letter by letter, David. V-A-M-P-I-R-E. Let me take a sip of my drink. Okay. So far, so good.

So far, so good. Yeah. Dollar sign? Yes! Yes! What? The book is called Vampires with a vampires with a dollar sign that's good one of my favorite fucking books bits on this show yeah i have all the guesses i had as to where

that was going that was not one of them i think the idea in the book is that it stresses that they are kind of a for-profit organization a little bit more right right this is kind of just like they work for the church right that one's more like they're a for-profit organization and if you follow the money it goes to the church like all the way up i want to point something out about the title of this movie um because i was doing some of my own research which is something that people do these days you got it and i assumed i'd always assumed that it was simply called john carpenter's vampires because of a long-standing construction with John Carpenter's

movies. But in reality, it turns out that there was just a surplus of vampire-related movies around the mid to late 90s, and so all of the filmmakers had to put their own spin on it. That's why you had Woody Allen's Vampires. You had Merchant Ivory's Vampires.

You famously had Ho Shao Shen's Vampires. There is Polanski's vampires. I mean, to my point, that was earlier. But yeah. And so it was really more just to specify the mad, fearless vampire kills, right? To specify it from the other wave of vampire movies. People were kind of edging on his territory,

but I'm glad they did. John Carpenter's Vampires. No, no dollar sign. No dollar sign. I was hoping it was going to be a Z. That would be fun. Vampires. But no, it's a novel by, let me get his name,

John Stakely. Shut up! Oh, watch out. Who wrote two novels. One is called Armor. And it's kind of like a space thing where guys fight aliens. Yeah. And one is called Vampires.

Ching. Yeah. Which, and then that's what he did. He wrote those two books. And John Carpenter made a movie of one of them. Yeah, this book is published. It came out in 1998. It's about vampires.

Right. This book is published. The studios go, that sounds like a movie of one of them. It's called Vampires. It came out in 1998. It's about vampires. Right. This book is published. The studios go, that sounds like a movie. They option it. It's a bunch of people like Peter Jackson and Raimi considered doing it. All the obvious people you'd imagine were offered this or considered doing it. And then it lands with Russell Mulcahy of, excuse me, Highlander fame and

Dolph Lundgren, which sounds like a very different movie. Yeah, probably would have worked. You know, a bit of trash. Carpenter is super bummed out. It sounds like in a certain way he is more despondent than he's ever been in his career at this point, because I think...

Escape from L.A. had just bombed. That should have been some sort of homecoming moment for him, a vindication of full circle. The movies that weren't appreciated at the time have not been canonized. I can come back and make a sequel people want to see. NBA 2K had not yet come out. And so he had not fully invested himself in staying home. Correct.

Right. He didn't know what to do with himself at home. I mean, because Nintendo 64 is 97. Yeah, 96, 97. That's a fair point. You know, it's happening. So it's like right around the time that Escape from L.A. is coming out, he's like, I could stay at home.

He's like, I could play a lot of Banjo-Kazooie. I'm just going to make the same. It's a good one, isn't it? Fucking Banjo-Kazooie is so funny. It's just fun to say. What about Conker's Bad Fur Day? Well, that one's a late N64 game. We're a little like Banjo-Kazooie.

I could fit in a little backpack. I'm Banjo, you're Kazooie? Yes. I'm just some twerp and bird and you're like a bear is like, just let me fucking do my thing. Kazooie's cooler.

Well, banjo's all right though. He's all right. He's got a banjo. Or a guitar or something. He's always taken out. Anyway, Nick and JJ broke this down

in the research. I liked this where they're like, the quotes you get from him in this era are either the kind of grizzled vet who's like, ah,

fuck it. This industry's chewed me up and spat me out so many times and like, or the kind of grizzled vet who's like, fuck it. This industry's chewed me up and spat me out so many times. Or the kind of like, look, you know, I had not a penny to my name. I'm a country boy. I got to make movies. You know, this kind of like. I got any complaints.

I'm John Carpenter. It's a nice lot in life. Like, let me like find some good ones. One day the IFC center is going to make T-shirts that have my name on them. I mean, this is pretty good. I turned 50 in January. I know this is a cliche and people don't understand this. When you're an older man, adrenaline and coffee don't do it anymore.

That's what young kids get. That's what, that's what young kids get by on or drugs. Okay, John, you can't do it over and over again. A director has no lifestyle. Your personal life suffers terribly. The stress is terrible on you. So he's basically kind of like, look i quit because fuck this you know and like me he might feel differently if escape from la had made 200 million dollars you know maybe he wouldn't be so

embittered uh but it sounds like more than ever this was a point where he's like i might be done directing i find no joy in this anymore he definitely is no longer like i gotta make another one if one does. Absolutely. Right. And after being a movie a year guy, the gaps are getting longer. I mean, this one's only two years, but like he's comfortable not making a fucking movie. It seems like increasingly.

And then he gets sent the script and he's like, well, this is a Western. Like that was the one thing they could do to fucking lure him back at this moment in theory is. Yes. I wonder if there are any quotes that they sourced for you about him having a similar feeling to the James Woods thing that we were talking about earlier

of just recognizing that his particular skill set was going to be out of vogue soon. The horizons aren't limitless for me anymore, but I've had a hell of a good life. It's a lot of that stuff. No, but there were, I mean... It's like, yes, but he's also these, but I'm John Carpenter. But JJ did pull up

a whole bunch of quotes from him where he was ragging on how posts scream everything and become postmodern, winky, tongue-in-cheek. I'll bring this up. So this is the thing. I play it straight.

This movie is 1998. Also in 1998, we have the film Halloween H20, which some people get mad at me for calling it halloween h2o and they're like no it's not it's halloween water 20 but it's not it was marketed as 2-0 which is why everyone made fun of you have to remember that like h2o we lived through this fucking trailer where they announced it like yes they said it out loud it was obviously it is

20 years later i mean that is of course, of course, why the number two and zero are next to each other. and it's funny and we give him comedy points for it. So he was offered that movie. Perhaps unsurprisingly. But he was like very anti the whole Williamson sensibility.

Right. It feels like he wasn't alone as far as like men of a certain generation thinking about movies. I was just watching on my way over here the Ebert,

the Siskel and Ebert review. And one of the things, Siskel fucking loves movies. Siskel loves it and says James Wood should win best actor. And I think he went on and did that. But the, the thing that he cites

as his favorite thing about it is that there are no teenagers in it. Yes. That's a big sticking point. And Ebert who didn't like it is like, you know, but I liked that there were no teenagers in it. He calls them teeny bopp sticking point. And Ebert, who didn't like it, is like, you know, but I liked that there were no teenagers in it. He calls them teeny boppers.

Oh, those darn teeny boppers always wearing their dealy boppers. Makes my skin crawl. But, yeah, I mean, this was a,

this was a real change of pace from the screams and the, I know what he did last summer. but like at this point, like Wes Craven's on top of the fucking world, right? He's like reestablished himself

as the biggest name in horror and he like has launched a new franchise. Sure. now gonna get to make his like his violin movie yes right his like fucking miramax oscar bait film and not be pigeonholed into the genre anymore and also get to make his sequels and whatever but to some degree you wonder if carpenter's looking at him like askance going like yeah but you sold all of us out. Now none of us can make the earnest thing anymore because you had to have the fucking last say.

No, but I think Wes Craven was always kind of annoyed by Freddy. Like, he makes this incredible movie. The other difference between Craven and Carpenter is Craven very openly was like, I was never a guy who liked horror. It was my way in and then I sort of ran it as a business. And it was cheap to make and it was how you got in theaters. And like very openly was like, I was never a guy who liked horror. It was my way in and then I sort of ran it as a business. And it was cheap to make

and it was how you got in theaters. And like, he was like, you know, his Freddy movie is so good and it's not that related to the rest of Freddy. You're saying New Nightmare. No, no, no, no. Not even talking, you know, Nightmare on Elm Street.

It's a wonderful movie. But I'm saying like, where they take Freddy from there, there's only a little bit of that in his movie. Yes. And I think he doesn't like particularly like the sequels he thinks they're goofy

even though they're super fun and Freddy's in them and he's badass fucking dream wars and then he comes back with New Nightmare which is a movie

that has like two kills in it total and has lots of scenes of Wes Craven as himself being like Freddy came to me in a dream

you know and much like Scream is him like deconstructing the thing that he did right but with Scream Keviniamson is like but the movie should be like really fun right you know on rail if it also works exactly yeah what if it also works that's i mean i really love to be clear i love new nightmare it's just a very strange it does not function properly as a genre movie it's not scary i think that was that scary. That was the Scream thing. Scream is super scary.

The thing with Scream. Have you seen the new trailer for the new Scream? I haven't. I ride or die for Hayden Panettiere's haircut in Scream 4. After that, I closed the book of Scream. Well, it's got this.

It's clearly trying to do the Drew Barrymore sequence from Scream. But now there's got this. It's clearly trying to do the Drew Barrymore sequence from Scream. Yeah. But now there's like an app that locks the doors or whatever. It's trying to update it. And you're watching it

and you're just like, oh, right. Like Wes Craven killed it so hard in the first 10 minutes of Scream. Right. Which is so scary and so clever.

Yeah. And it's kind of like, why make more Screams out of it? Someone ran up to me at like the 8th grade dance that fall that Scream came out wearing the Scream mask like a friend of mine. Terrific. Like someone ran up to me like the eighth grade dance that fall that screen came out wearing the screen mask like a friend of

mine like sprinted up to me in a crowded room and I remember that feeling of like mortal terror like I had never felt screen masterly scream has to be the

last time that like a horror icon was actually scary in that kind of way you know we're like the mere presence the iconography, like a certain point, scary movie comes along

and becomes silly. No, but the scream mask, what do you think, Ben? It was genuinely scary for a couple years. Scream mask sort of seems like Ben's energy. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I had the mask. I think I went. I'm not surprised. I think you ran up to me in my eighth grade dance. That might have been, yeah. I'll just say,

I always still think about the joke liver alone from the movie see it's such a throwaway line none of you guys remember it he's joking about a murder that just taken place what's the lillard it's his character and he's like making basically like a bad cheeky joke he He's like liver alone, like joking that her liver was removed from her body. Anyway, love the movie. You have big Matthew Lillard energy. Marie yesterday said you are shaggy. In the same way that James Woods is mad

he couldn't be Barry Pepper in 25th Hour, I think Matthew Lillard is kind of mad that he aged out of playing Hosley in the Ben Hosley biopic. That's true. That's tough. Landry Jones came and shanked him. But he could play like old Ben.

Yeah. Old man Hosley. Oh, in the western that they make. Here's Kevin Williamson on Carpenter declining the Halloween show job. Yeah. He wasn't interested at all. It's silly. He's a wonderful director. John was on some

vampire movie. Rude. Rude. And he said, you know what? I'm not interested in doing the same movie again. And it's funny because that quote reads to me like Williamson is like, can you believe this guy? And it's like, I can believe that. Why does he want to do that? He just fucking made the Slank Plissken movie that people had demanded he make for 15 years and then no

one liked it. So I just, he's like, why would I fucking go back to the well on any of this shit and then his thing also we should also mention the other part of it is that his deal on halloween was so shitty and he never made as much money right he had a lot of resentment where i i feel like i've at other times read quotes from him when they were trying to lure him back i think even maybe for resurrection as well his attitude was always like i will do it if you give me like the reparations pay. And they were always like, what?

No. My salary has to be making up for the fact that I didn't have profit participation. Right. God, I would love to see him direct Resurrection with everything else in the script. Buster Rhymes,

like everything else has to be the same. Only John Carr. And to see like, how much of an improvement would occur. Here's Carpenter's quote when you were you were sort of referencing and it's in every movie now and the horror movie has it now with scream it's a post-modern style where the filmmaker is acknowledging to you you're watching a horror movie and things are borrowed from everywhere and you refer to things and wink at the audience it's

playing to the perceived cynicism in the audience out there today it's in action movies it's in everything and this movie vampires has none of that none of that none of that i mean they're perceived cynicism in the audience out there today. It's in action movies. It's in everything. And this movie, Vampires, has none of that. None of that. None of that. I mean, there are like four quotes like the one you just read that J.J. was able to pull up. And he links that like that's why I took the screenplay. I opened it up.

I went, oh, it's a Western. It's guys hunting vampires. They're adults. It's just that. It's just that. There's no fucking bigger twist on it. And whose name does he bring up when he reads this script? Howard Hawks.

It's like he just always is like, it's like a Hawks movie. And I'm like, yes, John. Yeah, sure. But he finally sort of gets to be in the West and it's gunslingers. Like this is like closer to being a Western than, dare I say it,

in terms of patina than anything he's made before where he can say like assault on precinct 13 is a western but it has the trappings of a modern crime movie i'm just thinking like if you dug up howard hawks and showed him this movie do you think you'd be like my legacy is finally yeah but i always intended i i wasn't with you till mark boone Jr. was split from crotch to shoulder and then I was like I see where you're pulling from that is incredible

that is the shot that it's the thing I remembered most if we were doing this episode over zoom all four of us would have come on with that as our virtual background my body would be positioned in the middle of the V. And it's funny because that's a trick

that's been played in many a horror film, right? You sort of like, the slice and then someone goes like, and you're like, what is gonna happen? Chopped in half, cubed, much like in the film Cube. Right? Head lopped off. But the specificness and the

nastiness, the way it kind of like topples. I'm sorry. I would say it, head lopped off. But the specificness and the nastiness, the way it kind of like topples. I'm sorry. I would say it owes a lot to samurai cinema, which is like really a whole genre built around that moment of... David Sims is miming, being attacked by a sim. I would also argue cartoons.

Sure. Because, you know, when you get clobbered in the head with the mallet and then your teeth kind of crack apart and fall out into dust. Right, like piano keys or you have the bump in your head that grows six inches past your skull. Or you become an accordion. But that shot was, if we can go into like when I first encountered this movie. Yeah, because you called dibs on this.

Well, yeah. I mean, listen listen i know where i am in the food chain i knew that manzoukas and sheer were coming in for whatever they were doing sure they were gonna get a curb yeah and i'm not gonna throw out for the thing which is one of my you know 20 favorite movies ever made if it was a strategic pick it's not like we said we have three movies left you very quickly sure we're like you gave me a short vampire right i mean this was the first john carpenter movie I had ever seen. I did not know who John Carpenter was.

I was, yeah, I must have been on cable TV. Right when it premiered on cable TV, there used to be a channel called Stars 2, which formed about 40% of my personality. Wait, are you telling me this movie played in rotation with deep cable in the early 2000s? Not even then. We're talking like late 90s. It went straight to Stars 2, which was a channel that would only play the same four movies

on an endless repeat for a week. It's why I saw Magnolia 10 times a week for a couple years. Sure. And was no worse to wear for that

and would occasionally watch Vampires a lot. And this movie has everything that a 13-year-old boy could possibly want to see in a movie. John, what's it, Mark Boone Jr.,

a lot of arcane talk about the Catholic Church, and James Woods saying chocolate. Briefly glimpse of breasts. Yeah, some mild nudity. Yes, it also has some mild nudity and a lot of gore in the first 15 minutes. And I just remember watching it on repeat. Mild nudity and a lot of gore in the first 15 minutes and I just remember watching it on repeat but mild nudity and a lot of gore it is definitely

more gory than it is trashy like it's from dust till dawn yes probably a little more equal there's a lot of going really in it you're close to it like the gore the violence yeah baby like they're like you're fucking right there like at one

point when he's stabbing someone, and it's just like, it's so close. Like, I don't know. It's so disturbing. It's also, I mean, as bookends, right? Ghosts of Mars,

we will talk about next week, was supposed to be Escape 3, right? Escape from Mars or whatever. Right. Right. And then Escape from L.A. is notorious for having, like, some of the most poorly aged CGI of the era.

And Ghosts of Mars obviously has a lot of CGI. This feels like his last proper rubber movie, like visceral, just sort of like red corn syrup and rubber. Yes. Which is great. Running up against this fucking thing where you read the reviews from the movies at the time. They're like, we get it, Carpenter. You can put some rubber on screen, but where's the story? And he was always sort of pushing off like, I'm not a rubber director.

There was such a fucking, like, I don't know. They always use that term, you know? I mean, it's the way that we talk about CGI now. I mean, listening to that Siskel and Ebert thing the way they're talking about teenagers in that movie is the way that

you know we might talk today about you know not being a superhero movie the rubber director thing of just like oh it's just all these gags it's all these

gross gags and you watch this movie and I think I like this movie less than the rest of the group but undeniably David stabbing you with a stake

I'm turning into flames. David is shooting you repeatedly in the face as you're pulled out of a building. He's yelling strata chocolata.

I am not. But there's something kind of sentimental about this movie and you're like this is the this is like the end of the rubber era and man does he go out and like a blaze of glory and he really just knows how to shoot this stuff better than almost

anyone that's the thing it's it's so classily he hires the right people they design it well but it's also like you just watch all these gags and all of his movies and you're like he lights it better than anyone else he knows where to put the camera he knows how long to hold the shot and when to cut where you just don't get that thing where you're like, oh, the shot looks good until this moment that we get with most movies of this era. Absolutely. You know, I've never been a big John Carpenter guy.

The Thing is one of the greatest movies ever made. And so many of his other movies I appreciate, but don't really do it for me. My thing is that his biggest contribution to culture beyond The thing is Metal Gear Solid. For all the seeds that he planted for that. And I hope

there are long sidebars in the Escape from L.A. episode about Psycho Mantis and all that fun stuff. Because in solid state... I'll bring up Psycho Mantis. Yeah, just added it in post. But he is a... One of the most unpretentious Of American filmmakers

Yes That's a good way of putting it And he's proud of it I think the number one thing that has made him age So well Whereas I am One of the most pretentious Americans There has ever been and I'm aging poorly

Right now you're aging beautifully, you're hot stuff. But I got my Polly Wall nuts here since I was like 25. Yeah. I want to start going gray. I've gotten jealous of people. I just watched, in my rewatch, I just got to the Italy episode.

Oh, you're talking about Polly Wall. And the moment when he says like, can I just get some macaroni with gravy? And he's there eating the squid ink pasta. It sounds so good Polly Warren. And the moment when he says like, can I just get some macaroni with gravy? And he's there like eating the squid ink pasta. That sounds so good. I know. This is, I think this episode's coming out

after Halloween, so I can say it safely because I know the world is waiting with bated breath for this, that Asa is going to be, my son is going to be Tony Soprano this year,

and I'm going to be Polly, and my wife is going to be Furio. I don't know if the costume is going to turn out, especially because I think my velour tracksuit was stolen off the front of my porch. But anyway.

Also, I mean, in your journey of going through the various life stages as represented by different Seth Rogen movies, you're finally fulfilling this sort of promise of neighbors. Oh, that is, we are very conscious of the neighbors credits. They were a real inspiration for us.

A masterpiece. No, but, you know, I've been struggling to verbalize this properly in a bunch of half-formed rants and various episodes we've done recently. But the sort of, like, lack of subtlety in Carpenter combined with the unpretentiousness, right? And how I think so often people nowadays bump up against tonal weirdness and things like that. But I was reading all these quotes, him bagging on Scream and all of that, did kind of crystallize for me why I think Carpenter is like more well regarded now than he ever has been. Because he is a very literal director. Like there is not very literal director. Like there is not ambiguity in that and there is not the pomp and circumstance of it. He's just like telling you what he's telling you very straight and also very concerned with entertaining you at the same time.

And I think his sensibility has more and more, whether it's because of his influence or just the way that people's brains are broken, lined up with the way people like to process genre movies. The way that he thinks reminds me, especially listening to you talk about it just now, a lot of Soderbergh. If Soderbergh had the absolute opposite of his skill for being malleable and adjusting to the climate, if he just like could not change his ways. Right. And was just pissed off about everything and just dug his heels in the sand. Like they are similarly, I think, pragmatic in a certain way. But it's not like a blue collar vibe in the way that like Alien is like, oh, blue collar guys in space.

It's just an unromanticized vibe. Like this is what this movie is. And it goes back to the quote that you had at the beginning of the episode. It's just vampires minus all of the romanticized flowery bullshit that's been put onto them. And that I think unfortunately manifests in a lot of homophobia in this movie. But just because James Woods really picks up that ball and runs with it. But there's a feeling of like, you know, this is not your daddy's vampires. Like this isn't about the steaks and the

garlics and all that shit and then it is of course also about all that shit but they really make a song and dance of saying and it feels like the very premise of this movie as like a commercial proposition is like imagine what john carpenter does with vampires like calling a movie john carpenter's vampires is like holy right like what's his take going to be? Right, it's not called John Carpenter's like steak stabbers or whatever. No, it's very direct. John Carpenter has vampires. Right.

What's he got? And he's like, they're like trashy roadies. You need to stab like 80 times. But it's also like he seems more interested in vampire hunters than in dramatically upending the tropes of the vampire. Which he's just sort of stripping it away and returning it to basics. But you're not just like...

No gothic stuff. They're just feral monsters. They're not romantic. They're meth addicts. Yeah, right. Exactly. Their nests are essentially meth dens. And you just have to drag them into the sunlight

and they're like, and that's it. But like, let's say in terms of energy and mythology and what have you, they're not that different from, say, like near dark minus the punk element, the countercultural element.

Even in near dark, right, they talk and they go to bars. Sure. Kind of cool. Like, they're not cool except for Valak, who, you know, he's got a little flair to bars sure kind of cool like they're not cool except for valak who you know he's got a little flair he's he's kind of fun but like the rest of them are just like they're kind of just like drug addicts they're just yeah they just there's a quote that he has uh somewhere where he's talking about how like his vampires wouldn't have time to intellectualize any of the thing like all they need to do is eat and tear shit apart right and uh what a life.

The vampire movie started out as a gothic romance. Bram Stoker's Dracula is about a tragic figure contemplating his perverted immortality. Mel Lugosi, his vampire kind of became a friendly uncle. And now we have cute little Buffy. He clearly doesn't like Buffy. This is 98,

so it's like early Buffy. But Buffy's also falling into that post-modern shit. It is. That's true. Very winky. And her fanged friends in her living rooms each week. My vampires are savage creatures. There isn't a second of brooding loneliness in their existence. They're too busy ripping humans apart.

They'd have torn Buffy's liver out. Another liver reference. There you go. Before she knew what happened. Rude to Buffy. Super strong. Yeah, I mean, no joke intended, but it's like, he wanted to get the bleeding heart shit

out of vampires. Yes. No, absolutely. And like, of course, also in Buffy, it's like, she hits you once and it's like she's hitting the putty patrol on the center button

and they explode. Sure, sure. Whereas this, you really just gotta, you know, you make sure they're dead. Right, he's a little more interested in the process there I also doesn't like the Anne Rice type vampire

the sort of misunderstood lonely vampire all of that I do I mean we I'm sure we will talk at length about the jet fuel fucking explosions that come out of the vampires but there's a great shot towards the end where you see James Woods or the stuntman something good for him like rolling away out away from the explosion which is the opposite of the

buffy thing where it's like as soon as you stab them in the heart they sort of cease to be a physical presence it's just like hit the fucking deck because i'm gonna get caught on fire if this thing gets near me yeah yeah yeah and i mean that that monologue is him, like, eliminating all of the supernatural elements to killing a vampire and just reducing it to, like, you just gotta fucking hack them to shit. Sure do. Watch out for those fuckers. Yeah, with this really antiquated object. It doesn't entirely line up with the mythology involved with the Catholic Church and all of that, because inevitably you have to get into that use of symbolism and things of that nature. And I wonder

if John Carpenter John Carter? I wonder what John Carter is. They both met at Mars in common. I liked it. There's something there. If this hadn't been the John Carpenter thing of oh, the budget is going to be sliced

to ribbons the night before the shoot, which at this point, you would think you would just expect. It was like two weeks before filming, it went from $60 to $20 million. And he rewrote the whole screenplay. There had been two different drafts written by different men

in the development period of this film. And when they cut the budget, he was like, I'm going to take both those drafts, I'm going to take the book, and I'm going to pick and choose and find the things that are cheapest to execute. And I think he kind of, you know,

I think that the book is maybe a little more expansive, and he was like, we're just going to have four characters for most of the movie. Well, like, really, it'll be James Woods. We haven't even talked about him, but Mr. Daniel Baldwin Esquire, Cheryl Lee, and Tim Gunny.

Is he related to Roman J. Israel Esquire? You imagine the $60 million version of this movie is the first 15 minutes for the whole movie. And instead, you know, I would put on my monocle and check it out. And at some point, it was supposed to be cool. The beginning, I am so fucking in. When they open the door and that crew comes out

and they start assembling their fucking gear, I am just, I have mahogany. I love mahogany. I have mahogany. You got all the woods. I love how they look like roadies. You know what I mean? They've all got their crates of shit.

He just doesn't seem, maybe Prince of Darkness notwithstanding, he just doesn't really seem super interested in the religiosity of it all. That feels like a, a burden that he has to carry with him. Prince of Darkness, he's also kind of like,

you know, I've been reading a lot of Scientific American and it's kind of like, what if religion is science, right? Like he's sort of, he's kind of high on like molecules. I mean, I already don't fucking remember,

but did we counterpoint that there was some movie after Prince of Darkness where the church is like the one benevolent force that actually gets things right in Prince in the film or no, in a different, there's a different, God's not dead. There's a different carpenter post Prince of Darkness. I'm forgetting where it was like the framing of the church is the exact

opposite. You imagine that he'd be like, I don't know. That's what the story needed. Wait, you're right. And what is it now? I'm going crazy.

I know. Were you not talking about vampire? Cause the church is seen as the only thing that's sort of... No, I know. But then the guy's a bad guy. Oh, yes. A little spoiler alert. It was one of the ones right after.

Wasn't Memoirs of an Invisible Man? No. Church didn't play a big role in that. Oh, it's They Live. Yes. It's They Live where the church is secretly this countercultural, redistributive church. Right, right, right.

But it's a specific church. I mean, the church does not come off, you know, smelling like roses. And by the way... No, and I do it's a specific church. I mean, the church does not come off smelling like roses. No, and I do think even if they weren't bad guys, their hiring of James Woods might reflect poorly on them. Yes, go ahead. Prince of Darkness is a very specific church as well. It is just passing those two movies are back to back and both have a specific

church and specific, you know. And as we said, it's one of those things where I would take that to Carpenter and he'd be like, I don't know. Right. Whatever, the script had a church. This movie is more interested in like the Catholic church with like a capital T

those robed motherfuckers right with jeweled crosses and you know secret bank accounts it's kind of crazy it's this really really old institution

that's secretive and what are you talking about you know like who knows what like secrets are hiding what if there was a secret in the code? What are you talking about? The Volturi?

Well, I'm just more saying... The fucking Volturi. The fucking Volturi. I'm just saying, what if there's, like, a secret society, you know, of, like, assassins?

Oh, okay. Wait a second. I like that. I like that. Wait, wait. This has to do with the apple? Yeah, they're looking for that apple. Yeah, they're looking for that apple.

Get that apple. Original sin looking for that apple get that apple original sins kind of a part of it part of it yeah no wait I can't remember so dark the con of man

uh the da vinci code remember the da vinci John Carpenter should have made the da vinci code yeah he would have kicked ass

he would have kicked ass or Assassin's Creed should have made a game about vampires or John Carpenter should have made Assassin. I mean, that's actually true. He would love that.

Fuck. That's my take. That's what he should do. They should get him to direct an episode of a Netflix show. Oh, God. They should.

Just a random episode. Four. Which one do you want, John? I don't know. Four. All right. Is there a TV show? Is there a TV show? There's a TV show?

Assassin's Creed? So far, all they've done in two years is release a logo, and it's the Assassin's Creed logo. Big A. But it's like redder than you'd think now because it's Netflix, and it goes ta-dum.

The Catholic Church, yes. John Carpenter, like you said, Griff, rewrote the script He wanted it to be Gory Uh huh He wanted the movie to go Be pushed to the limit

And it sure was It got an NC-17 It did And they had to Cut like 20 seconds Which I think is now restored I feel like the Blu-ray I'm watching Probably has it back in

You bought the Blu-ray I Humble brag Absolutely It's a shout factory I know Scream factory I feel like the Blu-ray I'm watching probably has it back in. You bought the Blu-ray. Humble brag. Absolutely. It's a shout factory. Scream factory. Ah!

But, surprise, surprise, he wanted Clint Eastwood. Once again. Did he really? He did. It was another one of those fucking stories where he was like, I want the type of guy you'd never expect at the center of a picture like this. You know, not teeny bopper kids. Gotta be Clint. Like, every fucking time he just wants Clint.

Clint's pretty... I mean, I'd watch it. Clint would only do it if you could sing a song of the end credits. Well, the studio wanted Casper Van Dien. That was who the studio was after. Oh, wait. He's from Starship Troopers.

That is so bizarre. They wanted a hunky, young, leading man. I guess it just must have been... Yeah, and at that point in time, everyone's just like... That's maybe the beginning of the fucking blonde, handsome, pretty boy

has to be center of a franchise even if he's never been in a movie before thing where they're just sort of like, get a guy who looks like a Ken doll. He needs to look like an action figure. Yes. Right. That'll convince the audience.

Charisma will come later. Whereas Carpenter correctly was like, this guy needs to act like, be like someone who's, you think has been fighting vampires for a long time. He needs to be grizzled and older. Also wanted Arlie Ermey. Well, that was,

can you imagine? That was the one. So I think everyone, Arlie Ermey. Well, that was... Can you imagine? That was the one. So I think everyone... But Arlie Ermey is very chill, right? What I read is that everyone else Carpenter suggested passed and then the studio was like, under no fucking circumstances

is this movie going to star Arlie Ermey. He had considered Clint Eastwood, Kurt Russell, Bill Paxton, Al Pacino, Joe Pesci. Ooh, maybe. Oh, man. Get out of here, you fucking vampire! The thing is that, like, I could picture Joe Pesci in the lead role

of this action movie, which is not a thing you can say about many action movies. No, I think that's what's interesting about it. The quote was he wanted to avoid having, quote, just another muscle bound meat head. Yes. Which I support him.

Right. Arlie Ermey was the one guy who would have done it and Columbia was like no fucking way. Right. And then James Woods was sort of like a good compromise

for everybody. Right. Where that's still a known actor. He's a name. He's got Oscar nominations. He's going to put him above the title. Not something I've heard said about James Woods in a while.

Well, but back in the day. The other element of this. What? It was supposed to really be framed as a two-hander of course between Woods and Baldwin and I speak of Alec Baldwin because Alec Baldwin was supposed to do this fucking movie and I think that probably made them more comfortable with James Woods being

the lead. Right. And then, well, that's how Daniel Baldwin got all his roles, right? They'd be like alec you're here right and he's like it's me alec and then he like signs his name daniel and they're like he's like too late i signed the contract you have to hire me now it is i don't want to be too fucking mean here but it is wild how much like when you watch a billy baldwin or a stephen baldwin you go they have their own thing going on look they have their own thing and you watch daniel and daniel is just like like wall green suit of where it says compare to i mean that's what you could say it's more like you see billy baldwin you're like hmm no this guy's got too much credibility trash here you know. You know what I mean? It's like Billy Baldwin isn't good enough for you.

Daniel Baldwin is the Tom Sizemore of Baldwin. Wow. I think of like the SpongeBob meme, but of course, like the original version of that, which is like the Mr. Shake. Yes. Mr. Shake. But he feels like a compromise between Alec and Steven

because James must have wanted Steven so they could talk about their like early neocon beliefs. And then Alec is just. Because James must have wanted Steven. So they could talk about their early neocon beliefs. And then Alec is just sort of the happy medium. I mean Daniel is the happy medium between them. I will say. Daniel just feels like a guy you hire to play Alec Baldwin. At a birthday party where your budget is pretty limited. I will remind people that right at this moment.

He was on Homicide Life on the Streets. Which is not a hit show exactly. But it's a very well-regarded show. But this is also like the moment he leaves the show. It's right around when he leaves. He probably was like, I just got the vampire movie. See you fuckers later.

This is the moment like his life starts spiraling out of control. Like he's having his second highly publicized rehab stint, I believe when this movie is being released. He looks a little worse for wear. I'll say in a nice kind he looks like alec baldwin 15 years later sure but um i i feel like he's where whereas the best actor who ever lived whereas with tom sizemore you know a notoriously horrible person sure whose life is constantly in chaos very compelling on screen and you're everything that, all the demons of this guy

are registering on camera in a way that is like, man, there's like a fucking storm inside of this dude. And you watch Dana Baldwin and you're like, is this guy like doing okay? You don't have the juice of like,

man, he's like a fucking, a wild animal. You're just sort of like, is this guy gonna forget his lines? The secret to Tom Sizemore is every time I see him on screen knowing full well about his off screen struggles you always want

that character to turn out well you want some goodness to emerge from there and from see with Stephen Baldwin you just don't have the sense that there's anything happening Daniel let me shoot the Baldwin challenge at you Griffin okay can you name the four

Baldwin actors in order of age? Hopefully. Who's the oldest to the youngest? Yeah. Alec is the oldest. Correct.

Born in 1958. I want to say then it is Stephen. Daniel. Born in 1960. Second oldest.

Number two. That's why when Alec didn't get it yeah or he couldn't do it he was like by the laws of the Baldwin brothers it must pass

chain of succession right it's first right of refusal then Stephen then it's Billy then Billy 63 Stephen's the baby

this is the thing 66 Stephen reads as the baby which is why I thought he's deceptively older he is the youngest of the Baldwin brothers. But of course he's the baby. I was overthinking it.

To reference The Sopranos, Griffin, you do not know yet possibly. I'm currently on season two of watching for the first time. But there is a later season arc in which a movie is made and he is in the movie. Daniel? Daniel. Okay. And the sort of joke being like it's the kind of direct-to-video movie that he would be in. He's well cast. Sure. There's a line I think where

Tony says like, he's a tough motherfucker. And I always thought, if I was Daniel Baldwin, I would take that home with me. That's good. It's a really thankless... I mean, yes, he's on the best show that's been made at that time. But he's playing someone where you're like... It's a thankless role. They only got Daniel Baldwin.

They had to do him a solid to really make it worth his while. Exactly. Show him some love. Yeah. So he's in the film. He plays Tony Montoya. Can you imagine? Right hand man. Can you imagine if fucking Alec Baldwin was in this movie? It would be better. I would love like

you know, like maybe even five years younger Alec Baldwin. I'm trying to think where's Alec Baldwin in 98? Or five years older. He's in a weird spot at this exact moment, but you still have to imagine he's a big Carpenter fan. He always wanted to work with Carpenter. He like actively sought out this movie and then it was, it was scheduling

problem with something else, right? Like he had to drop out pretty late. Probably The Edge, because like that was one of those movies that kind of took up too, because that's 97. Like at the lot. Bart the Bear does not adjust his schedule for anyone. Exactly. You know, he had just been in Ghosts of Mississippi with James Woods too, so they're a double act. This movie, like two weeks before it's about to start filming, is suddenly like,

your budget is a third of what you thought it was and the Baldwin you have is a third of what you thought it was. Alec, we're replacing Alec with another Baldwin. All right, I'll take Billy. It's not Billy. Steven, I can rewind. I can take a pass at the screen is it one of the Baldwins that has that hair yes fine

shit yeah Alec you know he's in Mercury Rising this year which I think he's the sort of second lead in he's sort of the Colin Farrell to the minority right it would be better with Alec Baldwin. I'm not going to say that everyone in this movie is,

you know, everyone else is pretty good. Cheryl Lee is well cast. Yes. I mean, that's the greatest. The problem regarding cast of this movie is not the caliber of the actors they got, but how poorly they use some of the great. I was going to say,

I think the problem is you would rather that someone like Mark Boone Jr. stays around for the rest of the running time rather than the rest of the movie being hinged on Daniel Baldwin. And Tim Gunny. I mean, I don't want to be mean about that guy either. Sure. Guiney, however you say his name. Yeah. Carrie Hiroyuki Tagawa.

Well, he ruled. Yes. What a good fucking. What a face. Yeah. And he disappears. Yeah. but Tim Gunny you know he's okay it's just all of these good people being sort of misused or underused makes every time they cut back to Montoya a little more irksome

because you're just like I'm not really interested in this guy well for me I don't know I would say that I I'm only interested in him so far as I'm trying to figure out to what degree he should be put in jail like once yes

and we'll get there with the plot but like when his decision is to tie Cheryl Lee nude in bed butt side up as if sheets weren't invented until the early 2000s is a choice,

uh, particularly for two characters who in their five minutes of screaming together are supposedly in love. Well, and James Woods has that Faustian thing where you're like, this guy's a piece of shit. I don't like anything he's fucking doing on screen, but I can't deny he's compelling.

And then when a Daniel Baldwin is playing a guy doing equally unsavory things, you're just like, yeah, I don't want to watch this anymore. Don't put this in front of me. I don't like this. There's no. Yeah.

It's also the thing that he's abusive, but then kind of eventually starts to warm up to her. And it's like just, you know, the typical example of a like abusive relationship. Yes. And it's just as much as you're like, oh, well actually maybe he has a heart. I, you can't remove yourself from like,

he was just, they're treating her like basically she's just like a piece of trash. Yeah. Well, they're turning into a lot of the mood, turning into vampires. Well, right. She's about to turn into a vampire.

Therefore she's dead. Right. But also she is still alive and pleading for and they're dragging her around some humanity yeah yeah smacking her around and i think they're sort of and this does not play in a way that registers as humane at all but i think they're sort of going for this idea that they've been hunting vampires for so long and james wood's character himself has seen such grisly things in his own family that they have sort of lost any sort of compassion

for other people. And in the way that that is channeled in this late 90s affect, it becomes that they are basically the most misogynistic people alive. As much as this movie is not postmodern, it does have that like post-Tarantino cynicism to it. I must

read this quote from Cheryl Lee about preparing to play this character I would like to meet someone now who thinks they were vampire in researching for this film there was a lot of comical stuff about them I need the serious stuff but yeah it's kind of freaky to go yeah I'd like to meet a vampire

so Cheryl Lee I don't think she succeeded. But probably made a phone call and was like, do you know anyone who like, is like, I am a vampire? I'd love to talk to them. I mean, I have met people who identify as vampires.

I'm surprised it was that hard to find. Maybe the 90s were just a harder time. Well, you know, no internet or, you know, nascent internet. Who have you met who identifies as a vampire? You know,

those fucking comic conventions I've gone to in my life. And they're like, hello, my name is, you know, Vlad. And I am a vampire.

Where you're like, oh, like nice teeth. And they're like, yeah, I hired a dental surgeon. Like, people who are just like

pot committed to the thing. they still went to a Comic-Con convention during the day. Wow. That's a good point. Did they have a black staff? Look, I cannot conjure a specific memory.

I definitely, in the various fucking nerdy spheres. Was one of them Wesley Snipes? Because that would explain why they were able to go out in the sun.

I mean. Everyone just wants to be the day walker in these movies. It's always the plot. What if I could be Wesley Snipes? He's the only one that can walk both worlds.

Well, and it's worth noting, of course, Blade comes out the same, pretty much around when this movie comes out, which doesn't help this movie. No. This movie actually got delayed because of Blade.

A lot. Yeah. Blade really just goes like, and this is the vampire movie that everyone wants to see in 1998. That's the thing. I think John Carpenter's like,

yeah, I'm going to give you a gritty Western where the vampires are just kind of like trash creatures. And Blade's like, we're going to give you like a fucking MTV movie where Blade's got a cool sword and the vampires go to clubs of like trash creatures and blades like we're going to give you like a fucking MTV movie where blades

got a cool sword and the vampires go to clubs and shit and people are like one ticket not only that it's the movie that cast like the fucking storm of just like everything's going to superheroes we're taking a fucking right at the start there and we're yanking it over the line to superhero

and then everything is going to get pulled in this direction the'd say the only middle ground in that Venn diagram is with the villains with Thomas Ian Griffith and Stephen Dorff are like basically giving off the same energy

but in very different yes that's true different vibes yeah I like Blade I do too as a man

fucking rules yes we talked because you rewatched them fairly recently I did right the trilogy we could do them

You know who would have Just that we are always Dancing around We'll do that Who would have fucking ruled In the lead role of this movie As Chris Christopherson? Sure

Sure Why not? Yeah I mean I think James Woods rules It's just you're thinking Of all these guys Who are that energy

Where it's like They've been around the block Right They used to be hot Now they're You know Kind of Whatever Striking Look Pesci is the version Of this movie where it's like they've been around the block. Right. They used to be hot. Now they're, you know, kind of whatever, striking. Look, Pesci is the version of this movie I most would have liked to have seen

because it just would have been such an interesting object. You just want more Pesci. The advantage of Woods in this is that Woods has such good comic delivery, right? Like Woods has that thing where I'm just like, why am I fucking laughing at this? That I think Pesci was able to pull off as well at his peak where he was just like, why am I fucking laughing at this? That I think Pesci was able to pull off as well at his peak where he was like,

this guy's a fucking psychopath. Let's go on fishing. I think he was still fishing when they made this. That was part of the issue. But more like in Scorsese dramas, Pesci is always so funny and you're like, God damn it. Why is this guy fucking winning me over? He's a monster. The thing that, and obviously

the script plays a large part of this, but when you cast James Woods, this becomes a movie about what if the most loathsome person alive was all that stood between us and the apocalypse. Right. Like that's really what this film is. You're not really rooting for him.

You're rooting against the Catholic Church. You're rooting against the church who seem bad and vampires who also seem bad, but it's sort of a dark world out there is the read of vampires. It's like this is the guy who seem bad and vampires who also seem bad but it's sort of a dark world out there is the yeah it's like this is the guy who we are counting and he's kind of the like you know i'm the guy who fucking takes care of the things you don't want to think about type guy right you know he's like i've seen things you wouldn't believe and i'm a piece of

shit it's the lack of romance of it it's like being a vampire hunter like sure you get to have these like orgiastic parties if you do the job right one night that don't always end well and the local sheriff is just totally chill with it he's fine with it yeah absolutely um but the uh the job is not a romantic one i mean you get weapons and he's got no love interest but it's it's no there's there's a little bit of the fucking uh you were never really here thing of just like this guy's like life is committed to a thing that sucks that he hates that's

like draining the joy out of him he's like a husk of a man who just exists on like cynicism alone I feel like there's some other movie we've talked about where you have that kind of character vibe yeah they're where the guy is just all defensive sarcasm because it's just like well he's just seen too much shit

and he doesn't believe humanity is capable of good anymore. I mean, my favorite line delivery in this entire movie is James Woods at the end to Maximilian Schell saying like, you know, you're a real pile of dog shit, Cardinal, which is just like such an incredible straight shot.

And I was just like, fuck. And then he follows it up with like two more homophobic slant because I'm like a pole smoker and a fudge packer and like the next like a run-on sense but just you're a real pile of dog shit cardinal it's such a good thing to have james wood say to vince a million shell to like right like this august actor the the heel i mean the reverse heel turn, whatever that the character takes in this movie, where he just hazes the new Padre to hell and back for the better part of an hour.

And then as soon as, you're all right. He's like, yeah, you're a pretty good kid. Here's a buck. Go get yourself some bubble gum. There is not a line of dialogue in this movie.

There is no scene where two men are speaking to each other or a man is speaking to anyone else where they are not measuring dicks i was and the scene that epitomizes that i guess it's iconically for me right is when daniel baldwin is checking into the hotel there should be no aggression here he's like slightly harried about the fact that cheryl lee's turning into a vampire in the car but like he's got no problem with this guy he goes in he's just like hey and the guy's like oh yeah we got a room he's got no problem with this guy. He goes in, he's just like, hey. And the guy's like, oh yeah, we got a room. He's like, fuck you. Give me the fucking keys. They're all just like, yeah, so... Everyone relax.

They're all so hair trigger. You know, they're a little worked up because they're vampire hunters. They are. It really gets you on edge. Do you think they get vacation time? You definitely take it up with either James Woods or the Catholic Church. Take your pick. Who do you wantolic church right i'm just your pick who do you want to ask i'm just wondering if they have benefits like i'm guessing ben yeah the

obvious benefit they have yeah which i imagine was your favorite part of the movie is their vampire hunt van yeah they got a classic van weird silver aluminum tech dude the design of all of their shit it's like it's beautiful like um there's like obviously just the classic like wood stakes that look amazing but like that like huge like staff or whatever like with the spike on it like and then james's fucking harpoon gun very cool is so fucking cool i was like searching you can buy a harpoon gun. Very cool. It is so fucking cool. I was like searching. You can buy a harpoon gun. Do you know this, guys?

Be careful. Okay, sorry. You can get a crossbow. There's a space for it in your beautiful cabinet full of antique plates. You have 15 minutes of a $60 million movie. Sure. Right where it's almost a little more

Ghostbusters- yeah in the sort of process of how you know the team operates yes the argument and the equipment and everything and then it becomes yeah right the argument is might it just be more fun to have a vampire hunter movie where it's just a bunch of guys hunting vampires they're just the best i mean i believe the book has the same premise where there's the early setback. Valak appears. People die.

They have to chase him or whatever. But I think Carpenter had to make the setback more devastating. This movie certainly slows down. Yes. I'm not going to deny it. Sure.

But also, anytime the vampires are in sunlight, it's like, and then they explode. But do you remember that? I do. And if you stab them, you have to be like, explode but do you remember that i do and if you stab them you have to be like do you remember that i really enjoy it really feels like a jetliner is taking off in someone's arm every time they are exposed to sunlight yeah which is a great look and uh

if ben if you could incorporate that into like day-to-day fashion we're just plumes of little cones of fire of fire times yeah it was an effect they worked hard on they were like we want the combustion to be unique if anyone can do it i'm sure it's you i think i could come up with something there yeah workshop that for for later but this is a movie when you look at the budget that they ran with the 20 million dollars i have to say i'm like where is it like how i don't even see the 20 million dollars on screen here i agree james woods like 15 mil for this was he uh i think i think carpenter has gotten i don't want to say sloppy but he used to be so good at

maximizing every dollar and putting everything on screen the It is very easy if your movie costs more than $6 million to then cost $20 million, which is just sort of bloat and laziness and lack of oversight or whatever. I just think it costs more money because it costs more money. They were just like,

it's this type of movie. And he was like, okay, I'll just kick back and let things go rather than being very strategic about where can I save a nickel here and reapply it there. I wonder if all the money went into the fire. I mean, very possibly. In which case, worth it. Yeah. I forgot to mention this. Yeah. And this may reflect poorly on

John Carpenter, but whatever. Okay. His quote is, one of the things I like the most about making vampires is I was hanging out with the bad boys, James Woods and Daniel Baldwin. This was a fun movie to make. The bad boys. Three years after the original

bad boys. Look, I'm very relieved that that quote ends when it does. Yeah, it's not like he was like, we would go to bars and get in a lot of trouble. It's not that bad, but he is sort of like, those are some bad boys. It's no question about it jeffrey enjoys his personal life it's not that i mean it just feels

like the toxic energy that was wafting off of this set it to me it feels like i would rather be on the set of like fucking uh heart of darkness or like yes herffle. But I would say that what you're describing, I would say adds to the, you know, je ne sais quoi of vampires. It is a movie that feels like it smells terrible. Exactly. Yes. It smells like cigars. It kind of smells like your uncle.

I'm just picturing like Brendan Fraser in Be Devil being transported. He's like, I wish I could be on a John Carpenter set. And he gets there and he sees like the vampires and the transported. He's like, I wish I could be on a John Carpenter set. And he gets there and he sees the vampires and the weapons. And he's like, yeah, it's amazing. And then he sees fucking James Woods walk out. And he's like, no, Elizabeth Hurley, you foiled me again.

Daniel Baldwin. They should have fucking just run with it and had this poster be Woods Baldwin. Because the poster also, all the guys are kind of in silhouette. They might have been able to trick them. Just Woods Baldwin, no first names. I'm looking at what he's got going on.

He's, well, boss baby. He's considering the source. Right, he played your daughter. He's always considering the source. He apparently is in something called Supercell. Okay, sure. Sounds like a disaster movie. Right, he was in Doctor Death.

That's the thing. Right. That's the thing right that's the thing now actors will be in whole mini series that appeared on some that one's peacock yeah where like a friend of mine will be did you watch doctor death and i'm like what are you talking right and they're like alec baldwin christian slater you know like third person the poster is three joshua jackson yeah he's doctor death yeah and like and it's about a real guy who the doctor who killed people Is it their third person? The poster is three. Joshua Jackson. Yeah. He's Dr. Death. Yeah. And like, it's about a real guy who,

the doctor who killed people based on a podcast. And I'm like, this all happened? Every time I walk by one of those subway ads, it feels like threat level midnight

or some shit. Like, this isn't real. It feels like something that came out or was supposed to come out at the start of the pandemic and they just left the posters up

and it became vaporware. It's so bizarre. Baldwin would be better. Even tired Baldwin. We agree with that. Yeah, and I think he would have relished not having to be the dude.

What I was going to say is, imagine Baldwin playing this with the energy of Married to the Mob, which was the movie where everyone went like, whoa, who the fuck is this guy? And then when they put him into the leading roles, he got a little dulled. But he's still good. Married to the Mob, he has the charisma. He's got the danger.

He's a little scary. Harry Chess. He plays his death really well. Right. I'm just like, imagine him being, I don't know. I don't know. Harry Chess representation is increasingly rare these days, and it is something I appreciate. Especially like, God, I love Daniel know. I don't know. Harry Chess representation is increasingly rare these days, and it is something I appreciate.

Especially like, God, I love Daniel Craig. I think he's great. I've been so happy to see him play James Bond. He's smooth like a fucking shark, and then you throw on Tomorrow Never Dies, and there's a forest on Pierce's chest. What we need is for the next James Bond to be Dan Hedaya. Yeah, of course.

I think I've told, I don't know if I shared this anecdote on the podcast. I realized deep in the pandemic that Dan Hedaya lives like two blocks away from me. Shit. And I was at like this little like hole in the wall sort of takeout place, like sitting outside on a park bench.

And Hedaya, I saw him walk out of his apartment building from the front door and i was like is that dan hidea he got closer he walked in he picked up his lunch he walked away and i was like holy shit dan hidea and i fully recognized him immediately from across the street while wearing a fucking face mask but he was shirtless soless. So that's what gave it away. Ehrlich, he had two layers on. He had a tight collar. But the way the hair was spilling out.

You always see it. It's just peeking. It was incredible. Like there was just no doubt in my mind that it was Hedaya. And it was because of the fucking, it was the necklace. It was the fur necklace coming around the collar

and the eyebrows where I was like, that is unmistakably Dan Hedaya. We can never lose him. We can never lose him. He's 81 years old. I won't let him go. He should donate his hair to something like Jerry Orbach's eyes. You can see an ad on the subway that's like someone now is walking around with a full hair of head. Right.

One of our great Jews who plays Jewish people sometimes, but plays Italian people all the time. Yeah. Because you're just like... The totalities. Exactly.

You're like, oh, that guy's Italian, right? But he's not. He's not. He's not. He's Jewish. David, you have a hairy chest. A wonderfully hairy chest.

Add it to the blank check wiki piece. Absolutely. You told me the other day what your son likes to call your arms. Oh, yes. What does he call your arms? Yes. So we read Pat the Bunny. What does he call your arms? Yes. So we read Pat the Bunny.

Great book. Which is a phenomenal book. And there's a page in Pat the Bunny that makes me laugh every single time that my almost two-year-old son obviously doesn't understand where it says like, it asks the child to touch daddy's scratchy face.

And if you say to Asa, touch daddy's scratchy face, he will stop whatever he's doing and like run his fingers across my face right and it's like a fucking nail file right like the texture in the book itself which is how my face feels for half of every week

much to my wife's great chagrin and then you can say touch daddy's scratchy arms he calls it daddy's scratchy arms I just found that very cute although my arms are more fluffy than scratchy I just like calling it daddy's scratchy arms. I just found that very cute. Although my arms are more fluffy than scratchy. You have fluffy arms. I just like calling it daddy's scratchy arms.

That could be the name of a fucking hipster bar. Ace is so cute. I watched the video of him declining to hug you. And taking the keys. It's so funny. Keys! Keys! And you're like, can I get a hug? And he goes, no.

He only wants the keys. Kids, man. Gotta love them. Something that... I agree. keys and you're like can i get a hug he goes no he only wants the keys yeah uh kids man gotta love him something that uh jack crow never got the chance to have is that uh the character from vampires what a great name jack crow is james in quotes jack apparently it's john actually whatever and team crow james woods isn't that they call themselves team crow i mean pretty cool name for a team pretty cool ask me For a vampire hunting team? We're not going to go into the plot of this movie. Here's the plot of the movie. The fucking Catholic Church

is like, this vampire is really bad. It's the original vampire. They realize they didn't find, what do they call it? The grandfather of the group or whatever. The master. So they go on this larger mission, but the master kills most of The master. The master. So they go on this larger mission, but the master kills like fucking most of his men.

And they assign him this junior priest who tells him that the problem is that he's got a cross. Yeah, he's trying. He wants to get a cross that will make him immortal and able to walk during the day. He's trying to become a vampire. He is Valak. He's the original vampire. Go ahead, Ben. I just wanted to say that

every time he meets somebody, he beats them up and like throws him out of a car like immediately the scene with the scene is amazing it's fucking crazy he just met this guy it's because everyone keeps accusing him of doing cocaine the other he will not tolerate the other funny thing is he's called valak which is like a demon name from like the lesser key of solomon or like you know which is then the name that the conjuring two uses for the nun. Oh, right. And the crooked man,

like the villain of that movie. Right. Right. But it's like the all, it's just both times. I think they're just like, that's a cool name. It has nothing to do with vampires or nuns.

Right. I also love that. He just had a trading card made in the 1300s of himself. Yeah. You know, it was fucking cool. Yeah. He was ahead of the game.

He was ahead of the game. He was making merch for any of us. He's played by, what's his name? Thomas E. Nichols. Who's very tall. Yeah.

And fairly imposing. Is that not the same name as the kid from... Thomas E. Nichols. There you go. Thomas E. Nichols is the rookie of the year, correct? He was our rookie of the year.

He was a kid in King Arthur's Court and then he, of course, is the most compelling character in the American Pie saga. I can't tell you how many times I deliberately broke my arm as a 12-year-old just hoping that I would magically become an all-star pitcher. Wait, in American Pie, is he with Tara Reid?

Yes, correct. And he is very much the character that you can tell was intended to be the lead of the movie. And everyone else pops more than him. And he just sticks around the whole franchise and never really has anything to do. I think they drop him in three. He may not even be in three. I do remember that because Tara Reade.

He's in three. Klein is dropped in three. Yes. Klein is dropped in three. For reasons unknown. He was too hot. I watched all four of them in one night recently. What's the four? Reunion, baby.

Hayden Schlossberg. And I believe they made direct recently. There's a, what's the four? Reunion. Reunion, baby. Oh, three is wedding. Hayden Schlossberg. Right. Three is wedding. And I believe they made direct-to-video ones in between three and four and it was just like, we're back. Correct. But Thomas E. Nichols, you can tell, like, everyone else has their role and he's supposed to be, like, the center force. There's the reason that he's the one who gets, like,

the advice from fucking Casey Affleck and he's just the most boring character. And by American Wedding, they're just like, we have no idea who this guy is. Like, we have nothing to do with him. From what I remember of American Pie, of course,

the four boys want to lose their virginity. They do. That is, in fact, the central conflict. And Jason Biggs loses it to Shannon Elizabeth? No. No, to Allison Hannigan. To Allison Hannigan, right.

Right, right. Sorry, sorry. He blows it with Nadia. Well, you know. Again? Finch? Is it Finch? Loses his virginity

to Jennifer Kooling. To Jennifer Kooling. Right. Chris Klein loses it to nobody. They decide not to. Him and Mina Suvari. They just lay in each other's arms and watch the sun rise

and realize it's not her. And here's what I was getting to. Thomas E. and Nicholas loses it to Tara Reid, but their sex scene is that they're kind of lying awkwardly on each other and he's like, does this hurt? And she's like, yeah, a little bit. And it's not and here's what i was getting to thomas and nicholas loses it to tara reed but their sex scene is that they're kind of lying awkwardly on each other and she's he's like does this hurt and she's like yeah a little bit and it's like a honest depiction of teenage virginity right he's supposed to be the straight man protagonist they give him the one where it's like and this

is what it's really you're not gonna fuck your friend's mom on a pool table it's just gonna be kind of like you okay and she's like yeah it's i don't know if i feel this way this and that obviously i'm gonna spend the rest of my life with him and after they sleep together there's like this moment i think is actually executed very well where it becomes very clear for both of them of just like we're never gonna date ever again this is the end so that's the whole thing where i'm like that and our friend chris white it's it's the white sensitivity that's where you feel it and then of course audiences walk out and they were like number one guy guy who fucked the pie guy who fucks dipler's mom the the sort of guy from election he was okay and those are the main characters right it's just funny and then he exists the eastern european

lady right and then his role in the second movie is terrorites dating someone else now. That they still like each other or something. Well, it's the follow through of you are way too hot in advance for me. And now we're going to see the real world implications of that when you come

back to this party with the college. It's funny that he just becomes less and less centralized. Who's the one? Sherman. The Shermanator. I watched all four of them in one night fucking five months ago when my gallbladder was exploding. Shermanator was an icon. The same actor stole the

gumball machine at the end of Can't Hardly Wait. He's fucking incredible in Angus. In what? Angus, my beloved Angus. Oh, you love Angus. Right. I've never seen Angus. Oh, David. Have you seen Angus? Yeah, I lived Angus Angus my beloved Angus oh you love Angus right I've never seen Angus oh David have you seen Angus yeah I lived Angus baby yeah I mean that was real

as you would say deep in the pocket in all of I wish I could remember that actor's name his face will forever be etched in my memory Angus or the Shermanator his fucking name is but if he was in something, I was there opening night. Chris.

Chris Owen. Thank you. Oh, of course. Yeah. Aside from Eugene Levy, the only actor to appear in the direct-to-video spinoff American Pies. In any of them. He is in... What's his character's name again?

Wait, are you implying that... No, no. Eugene Levy. Jim's dad. right of course are you implying that the direct-to-video american pie sequels were just a one-man movie of jim's dad well he's in and there was just one other actor and it was chris owen and one of them is like secret honor one of them is just jim's dad on the eve of his retirement from whatever job he does old copy of jim's penthouse in his office spiraling out dealing with like an old copy of Jim's penthouse. In his office, spiraling out, dealing with being an empty nester.

Talking about his Uncle Norm who used to whack it six times a day. That's another weird thing. They make the parents be divorced in reunion that they split up at some point. Sure. So that Jim's dad can fuck Stifler's mom. That's like the big. Was his mom Jane Kazmarek? Kong versus Godzilla. I think that's right. It's Jane the big... Was his mom Jane Kazmarek or am I making that up? Kong versus Godzilla.

I think that's right. It's Jane Kazmarek. No, no, no. I want to say it's Molly Cheek from It's Gary Shandling Show. Because Jane Kazmarek is the mom in Pleasantville. Yes.

Let's see. Jim's mom is played by Molly Cheek. Thank you. Good for Griffin. What did you say? It's Gary Shandling Show. It's Gary Shandling Show.

And Harry and the Hendersons. Yeah, good. Paul Griff. That's why you get that Schmodowns money? I watched that whole thing the other day, by the way, and I never had a doubt in my mind. I mean, no, no disrespect to Josh. I didn't know what a schmodown was. So I had to

watch it while I ate dinner and Griff just dismantled that dismantled Josh like he was a piece of Ikea furniture. He was ready to put on. I didn't feel good about it. I didn't feel good. Yeah, you did a great job. Can you, much like the Baldwin challenge,

the American Pie Direct-to-Video Challenge, give me the American Pie Direct-to-Video sequels in order. Fuck. Okay, I'm going to try. And this, of course, is a very, very focused episode on John Carpenter's vampires. We do have more. I do love James Carpenter

I got more talking points there okay American Pie American Pie 2 American Wedding yeah sure then I think fuck

I think the first directly technically this is the American Pie Presents series that's what it's called right I think the first directed video one is Bandcamp

correct this one time at Bandcamp okay then I think the next one is Naked Mile they dared run it okay the Naked Mile itself one is band camp correct this one time at band camp okay then i think the next one is naked mile they dared run it okay the naked mile itself is three book of love no of course three was the most outrageous slice of pie according to this video cover beta house i have an envelope right here and then they dared bug hall is the star of the book of love okay they open the

book that's the one it's the book that fucking casey affleck hid that tells you how to have sex apparently someone gets sodomized by a moose in that one and then of course finally what girls american pie girls rules right wait a second this is the girls have rules i don't really this was the post no it was the post post me too yes i swear to you this was like fucking two years ago it is it's 2020 this was not even two years ago this was a me too saw it was like we're not just gonna not make more american pie movies eugene levy the phone rings he lets it ring he's like i got that shit's great money now he He hasn't been in. They thought reunion was going to restore it to fucking theatrical, like grace.

And then like three years later, they give up and go like, let's just do the book smart version of American pie where now it's nerdy girls trying to lose their virginity. Um, but I think someone weird either directed or wrote that movie. It was Clint Eastwood. Oh, right. Um, Mike Elliott directed. It's Clint Eastwood. Oh, right.

Mike Elliott directed it. It does not look weird. Written by David H. Steinberg, who wrote the screenplay for American Pie 2. I don't think it's that guy. And Blaine Weaver. Maybe this is completely in my head. Might be in your head.

Yeah, I don't know. Not getting anything here. Anyway, back to vampires. Can we talk about Cheryl Lee for a second? Yeah. There is. Ben's putting on a jacket. Ben's out of here.

There is. Ben's leaving his own home. Yep. In protest. The Naked Mile. American Pie presents Ben Leaves. But she is really tapping into some of the fire walk with me energy here of like being like expressing the trauma that was instilled. I don't know.

I completely agree with you. That same sort of like jaw unhinged internal scream energy to her performance here that I think John Carpenter must have keyed into knowing that she could. I mean, I will read his line about her. He had seen Twin Peaks. She has a really unique quality about her. I like people who are not exactly on the nose. They're a little tweaked. Sandy King, the producer, puts it as,

she looks like an angel with dirty wings. She's a mature woman. So many heroines these days are just girls. Cheryl is all woman. I like how John put it, more than Sandy King. Yeah. But it is that, yes,

she's haunted. And that's why she's so good in Twin Peaks as well. She feels haunted. It feels like you're like, what's going on with this person beyond like, oh, it's the prom queen.

She's pretty. You should tweet that Cheryl Lee is all woman and just see how that goes. Yeah, well, she is all woman. She's wonderful. I'm sorry. The last thing I need to say

about this, but I was just trying to figure out why I had a weird memory about this. The story is that they greenlight American Pie Presents. It was supposed to be called East Great Falls, and it was just like

back to basics, four dudes trying to lose their virginity. The twist is they all like the same girl. Right? Then they do American Reunion instead. They're like, put those fucking DTV movies on, right? Then they do American Reunion instead. They're like, put those fucking DTV movies on a shelf. And then when American Reunion underperforms, they bring it back, but now they're like, it's post-Me Too.

We have to rewrite and flip the genders. That's an incredible premise for a movie, though. The idea that, like, a high school movie about four guys who all like the same girl. I actually don't know if I've seen that movie, especially if you put it in a modern context of them trying to accommodate for each other's feelings of being somewhat gracious, but also being horny teenagers. But now it's four girls who all like the same guy?

I got a script to write. What is that? Pie. A guy fucks a pie, that's a movie? You never forget your first slice. You never do. That's a great film. I what Spike Lee said about it. You never forget your first slice. You never do. That's a great film. I saw it at the Sleep Review.

I literally had in my calendar American Pie 2 circled the day that it came out. Definitely. In August, a few years later, these were very... He glues his hand to his dick. We all went one.

I mean, I'm a couple years younger. The filibustering I did for a full year to get to see that thing in theaters, and I failed. The fact that Chris Weitz is sort of like in this greater circle is as if like a god. I've asked him about American Pie. We ask him all the time and he clearly is just kind of like,

I don't know. Guys, I made it. It was like a 22-day shoot. I really wanted to just have a film be produced. This is what fucking Richard Brickman tells me every time I knock on his door. And I'm like, can we talk risky business, Mr. Brickman? And he's just like, go away. That was the funniest thing when we did, I think it was the Les Koch episode,

which was like our first time ever meeting him, right? Possibly, yeah. And he was like, man, this movie, I just can't believe the amount of sex scenes. I wouldn't know what to do. I'd be so awkward on set with all this. And you're like, you directed American Pie. And he was like, oh, right. I kind of blocked that out. I had to direct pie fucking and shit multiple takes there's there's two kinds of

sequences i mean for as retrograde as those movies seem now i will say speaking to our earlier point that nothing stuck with me more yeah from that movie than that sort of emotional core that bittersweet feeling between Kevin and Vicky. I, I, you know, the first one has a little bit, I think that first one holds up surprisingly well.

I'll consider the Shannon Elizabeth stuff does not hold up. There was stuff that holds up. Oh no. So much of that movie doesn't hold up. It's all going to be that. And instead there's like 50% of it that like plays pretty well still. Right. And then the rest of them are absolute dog shit.

I assume. Uh, yeah. Like I'd never seen wedding or reunion, but pretty well still. Right. And then the rest of them are absolute dog shit I assume. Yeah. Like I've never seen Wedding or Reunion, but they're bad. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Chill. Yeah. They're bad. Yeah.

You can't even point to like certain incidents in the original American Pie that sort of passed the smell test now. It's just sometimes an overall flavor. There's a now. It's just sometimes an overall flavor. There's a sensitivity. It's dialogue scenes. And right, there's set PC stuff that people remember

is the stuff that ages less well and the sequels become all what could end up in this? Who could put that there by accident? You know, it's like,

it's all reverse engineer. Where's Jim's dick going? Who can walk in on what? What's Jim going to fuck next? That could have been the direction for it, but it was really more just like, it isn't about the vaginas we meet. It's about the friends we make along the way.

It's the friends you make along the way. What if you just make it pie fuckers and that's the whole thing? That's to be the reason. John Carpenter's pie fuckers. American Pie presents John Carpenter's pie fuckers. He wrote the script and he went,

this is a Western. It's basic. It's stripped down. Some men roll into town. There's some pies. They need to be fucked. I think Hawks would. It's all over them.

Someone's got to fuck this pie. I wanted Pesci to play the lead. Are there any of you that wanted Pesci? I got fucked this pie. Can we get Pesci to play the lead Are there any I wanted Pesci I got fucked his pie Can we get Pesci he's gone fishing What a terrible excuse I'm serious He's making a movie called Gone Fishing

It was written by J.J. Abrams He couldn't dirt it down yes go ahead No I'm just thinking back to John Carpenter's Vampires Yeah any more notes there We really did cover the bases Max Monchelle we should talk about the final reveal, which I like, which is that this, I mean, what is his title? He's a cardinal.

He's a cardinal. Right, of course. He's a pile of dog shit. He is a pile of dog shit as well, of course. He has made a Faustian bargain, deal with the devil, as he says. He's afraid of dying. Because as he's getting up there in age, and death is creeping around the corner,

he realizes that the epiphany is not coming the word of God the sign the light he has a total crisis of faith and decides I'm terrified of death what I want is to never die and if Valak turns into this super vampire he can turn me into a super vampire or something like that

I don't have to worry about sundowning luckily Tim Guinea has a great idea for how to deal with that shoot him in the back with a shotgun super vampire or something like that right i don't have to worry about sundown and uh luckily tim guinea has a great idea for how to deal with that shoot him in the back with a shotgun yeah the bullets explode his back yeah and blood goes everywhere but no i agree with you i like the i like that the double cross yeah and i like that james woods is the one with integrity but he's also this like totally poisoned person i also like, that it's rooted in this sort of like, there's nothing like the existential terror of like, I see now there's nothing. This is it.

What have I committed my life to? Um, and, uh, I also like the James would get strung up on a cross and almost burned. I think that's cool. Yeah. Um,

did you like David the like, and they don't do a lot of this, but I felt like this was something I was assuming you would have vibed with. The priest alludes to there's archives of vampire hunter history. I found that to be really an interesting thing. I love that idea in general.

The Presidium. Big books, exactly. All that nonsense. But that he's gone through and there's like this whole tradition. It almost kind of seemed to me like especially when

part of the ritual for the vampires is they needed to get a hunter's blood. It's almost like it's like in his blood that he's a vampire hunter or some shit.

Love that shit. I love that shit too. Yeah. Well, no, go on because I am coming into this conversation midstream. That's fine. Chad Stahels that shit too. Yeah. Well, no, go on because I am coming into this conversation midstream. That's fine.

Chad Stahelski plays You're coming in midstream after dropping your Hey, come on. What are you doing? This is on my floor. Hey, what the hell? Nice run.

Don't cross him. Sorry. I know it's a tomb, but come on. Chad Stahelski plays one of the masters at the end. Sure does.

Oh, that's cool. The one major beef I have with this movie, major, almost a deal breaker, is that when they talk about the concentric circles that the vampires have been hunting in, looking for something, there's no shot of that.

They don't do it. They didn't have an extra 40 million bucks. When they fucking invented movies. Circles come cheap, they can only afford a rectangle. You know, Edison and Eastman, you know, I guess not inventing movies,

but at the real beginning of it, got together and they were like, we have one hard and fast rule for this medium, which is that when you talk about something hunting in patterns, you have to realize slowly

when you look at the pins in the math, you pull out and you see the shape that it makes is a fucking pentagram or whatever. You just want the map. Yeah, I want the map. I want And you pull out and you see the shape that it makes is a fucking pentagram or whatever. You just want the map.

Yeah, I want the map. I want that map, baby. Map would be cool. Here's the effect I did like, though. It's very simple. It's them coming out of the ground. Yeah.

All covered in dirt. Oh, my God. Yes. That's cool. Dude, that is cool. And apparently it was like a nightmare to shoot because they just like buried them.

Right. That's the way you do that is you just bury some motherfuckers. You just bury some motherfuckers. All of their genes are buried, really. When you think about it. That's a good point. that. You just bury some motherfuckers. All of their genes are buried, really. When you think about it. That's a good point. You're actually 100% true.

Also, their DNA is buried. Those genes. But it's part of the unromantic, animalistic approach to the character, which is like they're literally spending their daytime either in a decrepit cellar or in the earth. Now, not to nitpick, but how do you bury yourself?

Do you know what I mean? Vampire powers? I guess that's true. I guess you're right. You're right. Yeah. And that is a question to settle. Settle that.

I feel like a lot of production meetings with Carpenter went just like that. I would be like, vampire powers. They have claws. They're like gophers. You know what I'm saying? Like they're digging themselves in like a little fucking gopher.

Right, but then how do you bury yourself and then you go like this? Yeah, I don't know. I don't fucking know how to gophers. Guys, test it out at home. Tell us how it goes. I do love this summary of the Siskel and Ebert review.

Siskel showered Woods with praise. You've got James Woods spouting off. He jacks up this picture so that it never lags. Ebert conceded that the movie may qualify as a guilty pleasure. So I'm just imagining Siskel just absolutely like firing a gun in the air. And Ebert's like, yeah, it's okay.

And it's like one of the last episodes that Siskel ever, ever did. Oh, was he sick at the time? Yeah, because this is the big pig in the city. He sounds very unwell, yeah. He dies beginning in 99. One of the last episodes he ever did was their annual memo to the Academy

where they say, here are the things that shouldn't be forgotten, where he made the impassioned plea that James Wood should be considered for Best Actor. That was not a joke we were making. That's one of the final statements Gene Siskel left us with. Bay Pig in the City is the best film in 1998 and James Wood should get nominated

for Best Actor. Goodbye. It's on his tombstone. Here lies the James Woods Oscar hopes for 1998. Should have been considered. But there is a feeling that I get with some

Carpenter movies where it's so close to having a little bit more meat on its bones, which seems a little antithetical to the Carpenter approach. But it's like, had this movie been, I don't know,

maybe a $5 million more than it needed or 15 minutes longer in some ways, they could have leaned a little bit more into the mythology around it. They could have had more of an arc of woods at sort of the end. I agree with you. And I haven't felt that way about the other carpenter movies

we're watching, especially watching them on order. I've just gained a greater appreciation. But this is one where I'm like, could have gone a little harder, a little deeper, a little more specific. It's a very fun movie. It's entertaining. It's cool. There are interesting ideas in it. And it's that Carpenter thing of like, yes, we're sort of like, we'd like it to go deeper,

but you do sort of admire the purity of like, you know what, he told a genre story, you know, beginning to end. And there's more goofy fun to this, obviously, than like Village of the Damned

or memoirs. A lot more energy. A lot more energy. There's energy. As much as the movies feel stuck between having a mythology and really just being

very pared down and straightforward, can you imagine a modern film, even if it weren't a part of a larger franchise, having this much

mythology that it encapsulates in five minutes with Maximilian Schell being like, yeah, there are vampires, you heard about that, and now I'm one of them. I'm going to be one of them now.

Like, it's really, here's 600 years of history that we're going to condense into like, oh, the cologne cell was wiped out. I mean, that's the thing. I found this movie a little underwhelming

just because we've been spoiled by watching all these fucking Grey Carpenter movies for the last couple of months. But I did run the thought experiment about like, what if Screen Gems released this in January? I would fucking lose my goddamn mind and be like, have you seen this fucking thing? Absolutely.

This rips. If this was just like a Lionsgate dump. And I'd like him, I mean, he can do whatever he wants, but we're coming up on the ward and I'm not excited for the ward. Me neither. And I would like him to just actually sneakily make a movie called, like, you know,

Blood Dudes. John Carpenter's Ghost. Like, just pick another one. You just came up with that? I did. I literally just came up with that I did I literally just came up with that and it comes out in January could the dudes could the S have a

could it be a dollar sign David is that okay sure alright well do you need to do Blood Dude is the original and then Blood Dudes with a dollar sign

is the sequel the carpenter's like, I got no involvement. It cost $200 million. That's the exact thing. You wish they just let him make a little Blumhouse.

Just a little fun one. A little Blumhouse and release it in the winter and let's all just have modest expectations for it but let the guy have some fun. I like Halloween Kills more than most people

because people really hate that movie. I've never seen it. Whereas I am very, you know, I think it's a more than most people because people really hate that movie. Whereas I am very you know, I think it's a movie with a lot of problems. But I have to imagine that Carpenter watches it. I really want to know

what he thinks while he's like, you know, doing his cool scores, right? He had a quote like two years ago when it was originally supposed to come out where he's like, I really like it. I think it's really gnarly. They really went for it. For the... For kills. Oh, for kill. Well, it's really gnarly. They really went for it. For the... For kills. Oh, for kill. Well, it is really gnarly.

I do think he likes that. He had a quote to that effect where he was like, I like that this is the hardest anyone's gone. But there's a subplot in Halloween. But maybe that's him trying to find something nice. I don't know. Maybe that's him being nice. But there's a subplot in Halloween.

Have you seen Halloween Kills? Nope. I haven't seen the previous Halloween. Evil dies tonight. All good. Evil dies tonight. Where it gets a little more highfalutin and has a bit of a sort of comment to make on.

Sure. On current society. And I just wonder if Carpenter watches that. Yeah. Is the moral you shouldn't stab people to death? The moral, there's just a whole thing with a mob. Don't ruin it because I'm going to see it. Mob justice.

Yeah, where it's like, you know, are we the real enemies? And I'm like, Michael Myers is out there gouging people's eyes. Sure, evil. Maybe you should form a mob. I will also say, I heard that

David Gordon Green shot a very different ending and Blumhouse had to like sit him down and go like, I see what you were trying to do. It's very interesting. It doesn't work. You have control over the rest of the movie, but you have to shoot a more conventional ending. It's very interesting. It doesn't work. You have control

over the rest of the movie, but you have to shoot a more conventional ending. I am very intrigued to hear do you know what the other ending was? I know nothing about it. I just know that that was the thing where he said to him like I really All I know is that Blum sat him down and was like, I really respect what you were trying to do,

but it doesn't work, and you need to do something that delivers traditionally. I appreciate to do, but it doesn't work, and you need to do something that delivers traditionally. I appreciate the ambition, but you didn't execute it. And that I think whatever that ending was going to be is going to be on the eventual... I would check that out. I would be interested to check that out. But it does feel a little bit like a movie where it's like,

are you trying to make a gnarly homage to Halloween sequels that's just violence and Michael Myers? Or are you trying to tell me something here? Pick one. Don't try and do both. Right. And then, I think Blum was just like, just do the gory scary ending. It's also very concerning that

all the recent interviews, David Gordon Green's like, yeah, the third movie's going to touch on, like, COVID and the election fraud. Okay, look, I'm not concerned about that. No, Michaelers goes to the january 6th insurrection he's like no i think this was gonna be like really topical we're gonna be able to talk about things that have happened since the last one came out and i'm like i'm like fine make that movie dude because like i'm like sure are you gonna make just another movie where michael

myers kills people i'd go see it okay but i'm like do you want to make some kind of wacky shit that will probably suck but at least it'll be like remember that one like I'm kind of into it it is just well and obviously it was just like too much fucking money but like I think everyone would have been pretty comfortable with that being the last Laurie Strode movie and that

works as like a legacy even the people who like it lesser like that works as a bookend to the original it's such a huge hit that they're like we're coming back, baby. Right. And now he's just making these two more weird continuing old women's glory. Well, I mean,

we don't have to keep talking about this, but I mean, the weirdest thing is that all three were supposed to take place on the same night. Right. This one takes place on the same night as the last one. Right. But now he's like, because of COVID,

we couldn't shoot the third one. Right. So now it will be set four years later. And you're like, okay, that's pretty different. What's your plan? But then he frames it as, which is great, because now I get to talk about the Rona. About COVID.

And I'm like, all right. What an opportunity. Yeah. I mean, look, Michael Myers, mask compliance through the roof. Yeah, the guy wears a mask. It's true. I honestly don't know how he breathes. But he breathes pretty heavily.

He also often keeps his distance until he doesn't. Until he's right on you. He's like 40 feet away or he's like two inches away. He likes to watch. He likes to watch. Vampires.

Vampires. That's my short for observation. They go and hunt vampires. They have their last stand. Okay. Okay. I like that they called the underlings goons. Yeah. That's a happens with this movie. They go and hunt vampires. They have their last stand. Okay. Okay. I like that they called the underlings goons. Yeah.

That's a fun specific. It's really good. I like that. It's like a workplace. Like, you know what I mean? This is a shorthand for that kind of thing. It ends with him letting fucking Daniel Baldwin, Cheryl Lee get a two day headstart on him.

Yeah. Because they're turning into vampires. That is all incredible In that it's unbelievable In that I do not honestly believe what I am watching There is a shot That is just Chef's kiss

In the worst way with Daniel Baldwin Driving their open air jeep While Cheryl Lee Is full fangs out Like stretching Getting ready to fight him She's like here I go and he's just sitting there Jeep while Cheryl Lee is full fangs out like stretching getting ready to fight him she's like here I go and he's just sitting there eyes on the road completely oblivious as if the

actor himself did not even know he might not have been paying too much attention might be a little glassy eyed it's also it's like maybe his best moment as an actor in the movie is when she finally does bite him and he kind of plays the sense of relief of like, I can stop fighting against this.

Would you call that relief? I think he is clearly coming. Well, the ultimate relief. His eyes cross like he is doing a Saturday Night Live caricature of someone having an orgasm. The little death. It's the big death at that point.

Someone just saw The Last Duel. Le petit dimou. Yeah. It's, I mean, there is a very erotic quality to the way vampirism is presented in this movie yeah um and you see that in the way that cheryl lee is is made to act like she's orgasming um when she is going through that and they go through the sort of like rapey sexualization of how her body is splayed on the bed. Not good, very bad. Very bad. And then, yeah,

there is the, when she is sucking his blood, Right. You know, He's been edging for years. Right. He's finally letting the thing happen. Yeah, I wandered off the blank check Reddit one day into a whole Reddit about that, and he was posting a lot of this character, Tony Montoya,

Tony Montoya. Tony Montoya. About his cross-eyed edging moment where his entire body just collapses. It's like Akra getting the ghost blowed up. He also, before he turns towards the end, Baldwin, he takes a

machine gun and just shoots it into the air and screams. Yes, yes he does. I felt that. Ben, are you consulting notes? Oh, but Ben. I wrote down a couple of things. Ben, what does he do that for? Well.

It's the coolest. I was like laughing at that. And then Carpenter, man, he turns that beat on its fucking head and makes it practical. Wait, I know. He uses the gun, which is heated up, to solder his wound. Oh, I know. He uses the gun, which is heated up,

to solder his wound. Oh, I didn't notice that. Sin them up. It's cool. I did like that. That's awesome. It's awesome. I was just there for the like,

you know, just emotional moment while you shoot an automatic gun. On top of a hat. Oh, I love that. I should have had just another little hat under this. Yeah, it'd be very cool this I had to pee really badly

and rather than pulling an earlick and going on the rug I'm going to use this as an impetus to play the box office guy this film opened on October 30th 1998 a peak October I can't even remember the peak October selection I guess by the time this episode comes out it'll be gone

it'll be peacock'll be Peacock November it's fucking good they have like the best selection of horror movies of any of the streaming services Peacock's got stuff yeah it's got some stuff

right that's cool and it's the only streaming service that lets me select Dominic Toretto as my avatar he's also my avatar

well and that's why we're friends exactly it's also the only streaming service that has like 73 seasons of Below Deck

that's true and Deverello's Rayman remastered also your avatar should be the boss baby number one at the box office number one at the box office on this weekend was a film called Vampires you scared me opening to 9 million dollars

back when October was kind of a dead time in Hollywood not now when it like you know I remember an Entertainment Weekly article probably right around this time 98 or 99

about how October had the least the fewest hundred million dollar grosses of any month right that at that point

it was like only three movies have ever opened in October and made a100 million. Why can Hollywood not make this month work? Now they make it work, baby. Did Vampires simultaneously open on Screen Gems Plus

as well? Yeah, well, right. That did cut into its profits. Yes. Number two at the box office is a film that I truly love. A big fan of this film at the time.

I've watched it recently and it had been number one the last weekend. It's not maybe as great as I remember it when've watched it recently, and it had been number one the last weekend. It's not maybe as great as I remember it when I was a teenager, but it's good. No, not Rush Hour. That's a film you love, and that is number six at the box office. Wow. How the mighty have fallen.

It is a very high concept comedy, dramedy, sort of satire, social commentary. It's not Pleasantville. It's not the Truman Show it is Pleasantville

so you don't like it as much now is that what you said I watched it recently in COVID it was one of those like movies my wife had never seen and I was like I love and I threw it on and I was like this is still good and the technical thing is still so incredible but I was like it's a little obvious.

I think I was... It's a mind blower when you're a fucking tween. It's really the third act. The transition into the hokiness of the whole town turning into color and becoming this broad metaphor

for race relations is pretty crazy. But the JT Walsh scene is so fucking good. It really turns into color. Yeah, Joan Allen. Joan Allen and Lenny Macy are both incredible both incredible. Tobey Maguire was born for Tobey and Reese are great.

Jeff, Jeffy Boy. Jeffy Boy is great. Paul Walker's great. The best Paul Walker performance ever, I would say. He's so funny. He's really good. Hold on, I'm consulting the record books here and I see She's All That listed prominently. I would say he's even better

in Pleasantville. It's a very skillful comedic performance. She was a fucking bet. She was a fucking bet. I'd be curious to rewatch it. I probably haven't seen it in like five years.

Yeah, we'll watch it. It's good. It's also very long. I sort of forgot about that too. I'm like, I watch this on video all the time. Anyway,

number three. Joan Allen would have been my supporting actress when I died. She's certainly on my list that year. Mega snob. I can probably check the five.

Number three is another film I saw in theaters and loved and re-watched recently and was like this is even better than i remember whoa it's by your namesake griffin dunn oh it's your fucking favorite goddamn it's not my favorite it's not addicted to love which i do oh oh that's your favorite it's practical magic it's practical magic which I do. Oh, that's your favorite. It's Practical Magic. It's Practical Magic, which is so good. So we got witches and vampires at the top of the box office. Yes, we do. Practical Magic, Sandy and Nick, Eden Quinn, Goran Viznic.

Oh, a VR fame. Absolutely. Great movies, holds up. He has Alec Baldwin-worthy hair. He could be a Baldwin. He's a Hursuit man. That head of hair is beautiful. Number four, The Box Office. It's a cartoon starring

someone unusual. It's a cartoon unusual for them to be starring in a cartoon? Correct. The actor. Yes. You know what it is. It is the movie Ants. It is well-written by our dear friend. Ants with a is the movie Ants Well written It is well written By our dear friend

Ants with a dollar sign Ants with a dollar sign Ants with a Z That's sort of going like Dreams with a Z And he's like Pleasantville Magic Ants

These are just movies I was there opening week Oh absolutely Brilliant Have you asked Why it's about He did Ants with a Z And then in American Dreams

It's all about Dreams with a Z Did he write American Dreams? American Dreams is Paul Yeah but he's still got some intel They are brothers after all Sure Sure dreams with a Z. Did he write American Dreams? American Dreams is Paul. But he's still got some intel. They are brothers after all. Sure. It is fascinating though that like Ants was viewed

as this big fucking hit and it's like, oh, it tops out at 80. Like nothing could get over this 100 hump in October. Joan Allen is also my winner for Pleasantville that year. Laura Linney, Truman Show, Kate Beckinsale did. Last Days of Disco, Lisa Kudrow opposite of sex. Rosaria Dawson, He Got Game. Those are my nominees that year. It's a good five,

but Joe Namath's kind of undeniable number. Number five of the box office is a sequel in a horror franchise, but it's a little, it's got a new twist on that. It's a little sideways? Exactly. Do they go to space?

No. It's not Jason Eck. Right, that's later. But it has a little bit of a... Sort of comical and kind of self-aware. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. It's a movie I love. That is, of course, called The Bride of Chucky of comical and kind of self-aware. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, $15 million for this and he seems like he hates it. Not a bad movie. But he also famously has like 11 lines of dialogue in that movie. Right. Which is,

and they broke down how much he got paid by word and it was quite a lot. Yeah. Beloved. Yeah. Which we've covered on this podcast.

Apt Pupil. Uh-oh. And What Dreams Make Um. One of the most depressing movies ever made. Yeah. Great Werner Herzog cameo.

Did that director ever do anything ever again? Like that's... Is that because he's the director like a visual effects guy or something? No, I feel like he was some European... It's Vincent Ward. Oh, is it really? Famous New Zealand film director.

Vincent Ward directed that? He did. What dreams? Because I was going to say, that feels like a real blank check movie, but we're never going to cover it. No. I mean, that was Robin Williams post Good Will Hunting. I'm going to be

a serious actor for a minute. And Cuba's post Jerry Maguire. It's like big post Oscar movie for both of them. After Life? There is more. It wins the visual effects Oscar. After Life also came out in 1998. Probably the best film of 1998. Much better film.

Great movie. I just think that's one of those movies that it was like derided. Everyone fucking hated it. It was a big flop and they were like, yeah, but we got to give it the Oscar for visual effects, right?

I mean, the whole thing looked like a Monet painting. Yes. At least in like 1998. Yeah. You know, CGI it was capable of. Also, there's a Werner Herzog cameo

where he plays like a half buried like flower or something. Ben, that's another Werner Herzog cameo where he plays like a half-buried flower or something. Ben, that's another idea. Buried Herzog. Don't bury him, though. We need him. Well, we do need him. Give him a straw.

Give him a little straw. Okay, well, that's the box office game. We did it. David's finishing a piece. Any final thoughts on the movie Vampires? With a Z. I would love to see. Fucks so hard.

Yeah, it does. I would love to see more filmmakers just put a possessive spin on the concept of vampires. Why not? John Carpenter's got them. Okay. I'll try and take them. A couple of few things I wanted to say.

A couple of few things. A couple of few things. A couple of few things that I have say a couple of few things a couple of few things that I have left here in my notes there is a moment where James says god damn three or four

times basically like kind of back to back where it's like almost incredible and I kept trying to like find the scene after watching it later and I was not able to find it but it's something where like he's just like someone's like well we can't do that god damn and then they say something back to him and he's like god damn it's just over and over and over again and he's so good at it rule of three it's kind of amazing how many times James Woods can

say god damn in a row and it's still interesting and entertaining. Lifetime full of experience. Right? Yeah. That and then I just wanted to say at the end of the movie when they're designing the system with the elevator and how they're going to drag the vampires out. That was like such a dad moment and I was like I have no

fucking idea what a winch is. I don't know what they're fucking talking about. It does have big so dad the boys getting together on a saturday and deciding to like do a project energy yeah they're like like like laying out this whole thing and i'm just like this is really weird yeah yeah it's a weird movie god damn it's good you love that i do love it it's total trash but it's you know good trash like you say it's high-end love that. I do love it. It's total trash, but it's, you know, good trash. Like you say,

it's high-end trash. You would praise it now. It's like a car hanging over the edge of a cliff and seesawing back and forth right between Carpenter being in control of his craft and the trash that follows.

Yes. It is kind of an inflection point. But she's only got two movies left after this. It's wild. Yeah. I wonder. I mean, I just can't imagine the awards

going to give me much, but Ghosts of Mars? I'm excited. Ghosts of Mars is a movie I've only seen parts of on cable that I've never actually watched in full, and I'm excited to watch it because it feels like that's my kind of silliness. Hey, David, what if Mars had ghosts? You got

my money. You have my attention. What if Mars had Ghost is good? I'm into that. Good tagline. What's the tagline? What if Mars Head Ghost? What's the actual tagline? All right.

Griff needs to pee. I don't need to wake up to go see Mars Head Ghost. I need to pee. Ehrlich, thank you for being here. My pleasure as always. Nice in-person record. Yeah, in the tomb.

I haven't told you guys this yet, but I'm not going to be here on the next miniseries, but the miniseries after that I'm slotting in. Slotting myself in. No. No. Denied. But you'll be on one soon. Oh, brutal. There's one movie. We'll talk to you off mic. There's one movie there.

The plans got warped a little bit. Things have been messed around. Oh, that's the issue. It's a less personal dig. It's not a personal dig. Well, always my pleasure to be here for whatever the case may be. We'll be back. If I don't promote... Fighting in the War Room.

Whatever. Fighting in the War Room with Katie Rich, David Ehrlich, Matt Patches, Dave Gonzalez. There's going to be some real fighting in the War Room if you fail to plug it. There often is. Yeah, and you can find me at the playground with Asa. Damn right. Chilling.

He's the one screaming about stuff. Keys. Daddy's furry arms yelling about keys. Scratchy arms. And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media. remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media,

AJ McKeon and Alex Barron for our editing, Leigh Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song. You can listen to their new album, Extremely Loud and Incredibly Online, where our albums are found. Joe Bone and Pat Reynolds for our artwork, JJ Birch and Nick Lariano for

our research. Every time I'm just so worried I'm going to fuck it up. Just that run of what's now become 18 names. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to get there, though. I'm getting there. I'm getting less scared every week.

Right. Next week, tune in for Ghosts of Mars. Right. Yep. John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars. You'll see. You'll see. You'll see.

And. You'll see. You'll see. You'll see. And... You got the ghost? You can go to patreon.com slash blank check where Santa Claus is coming to town. We actually got Mars. Oh, shit. Rarely gives podcast appearances,

but that's a big get. Santa Claus is coming to town. We're doing... Oh, oh, oh. Tim Allen's Santa Claus trilogy on Patreon. We sure are. It's premium.

We couldn't do that on main feed. Now, wait, are we... The costs are too high. You guys have definitely already done, if not an entire episode, then at least an episode-long sidebar about the Santa Claus 2. Because much like my

watching all four American pies while fighting an exploding gallbladder night, when I was very depressed on Christmas 2020, alone in the pandemic, I watched all three Santa Claus movies in a row waiting for soul to go up on Disney plus and then could

not stop talking about how weird they are Elizabeth Mitchell she was my supporting actress pick that year she's good in that movie she is weird I'm excited to see Elizabeth good I love Elizabeth that movie um anyway yeah I don't know what the fuck is going on.

Go to blankets.com for some real nerdy shit. And as always, James Woods has never done cocaine in his life.