Blank Check with Griffin & David - Joint Security Area

Episode Date: June 25, 2023

Park Chan-Wook’s 2000 breakthrough and Korean box office juggernaut - JSA (Joint Security Area) - is the rare international murder-mystery that dares to ask the question…”what if the real smoking gun was FRIENDSHIP??” Join us as we unpack this poignant and twisty thriller, and maybe some of you can unpack on your own time why Griffin chooses to bring up THE LITTLE RASCALS when talking about Korean geopolitics. This episode is sponsored by:  Double Fine PsychOdyssey (doublefine.com/check) Firstleaf (tryfirstleaf.com/check)  Bombas (bombas.com/check CODE: CHECK) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

Hey, after half a century of division, overcoming our history of agony and disgrace, we're going to open the podcast to reunification, okay? Could we maybe open it later? Yeah, I don't know. There are no good options for this. Wait, what? This is the line? I thought you had a follow-up line.

Yeah, where's the podcast? No, that's... I said we're going to open the podcast to reunification. We're going to open the damn to podcasting. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what you can tell me. The only tagline you could find was in Korean with no translation. I found a French tagline.

Oh, what's the French tagline? It seems like it's like, all right, let me. What is it in French? It's like one people. You want to mispronounce another language? Shut up. One people, two countries, one tear? Okay, great.

Debbie's shirt? Like, I'm trying to, I want to... Two friends, one podcast, one tear. Whatever. That's it. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's a... I'm butchering a butcher.

That's what I... JSA tagline. That didn't really help. Maybe a joint security area tagline. This is, I think, going to really pay off. This is good podcasting. When you start a podcast, you want there to be momentum.

You want people to be like, huh? Certainty. Confidence. You're in good hands. Absolutely. Should I do what I've been doing on Ocean's 11? No, no, no. Tune into the Ocean's 11 episodes if you want to hear me do New York, New York. Yeah, every week.. No, no, no, no. Okay, okay, okay. Tune into the Ocean's 11 episodes if you want to hear me do New York, New York. Yeah, every week.

And explain why that's a stupid bit. Yeah. You can hear me do countdowns for when the movie starts. Spoiler alert, I don't start at three. No. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David.

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce into the DMZ, baby. Sure. They get stuck in a joint security area. I don't know. They go to the bridge of no return. Sure.

This is a main series on the films of Park Chan-wook. It is called I'm a Podcast, but That's Okay. Yes. And today we are covering what we like to deem on, in this show, a guarantor. Big guarantor. It is the thing that gives someone access to the checkbook. after two kind of ignoble starts to his career attempted starts to his career

he just fucking knocks it out of the park makes, no pun intended what was the most financially successful local South Korean film up until that point in time and he's made himself a proven thing

that is all true the film is called Joint Security Area JSA He's made himself a proven thing. That is all true. The film is called Joint Security Area JSA. It stars Hawkman, Dr. Fate. Okay, here he goes. Adam Smasher. Adam Smasher? Spinderella?

What's her name? What the fuck are you talking about? Excuse me. Someone didn't see Black Adam In 2022 Cyclones Her name is Cyclone There's a group In the world of western comic books Ben

No one ever talks about those Never being represented in media No I was just going to say And I like to think of them as our modern mythology But go on The justice society of america so they are also the jsa now ben you might be asking what makes the jsa different from the jla the justice league of america team i already know within the dc universe i definitely wasn't wondering that i'll tell you the answer yeah

different members sure okay dwayne the wreck johnson spent like years just fucking drumming up this excitement of like wait until you meet the jsa and you're like i i don't understand meaningfully what is different about this team the answer is they existed before the justice league in the comics and they were replaced by the justice league which had better members yeah right was kind of cooler people thought leagues i guess were probably a little cooler than society right for sure and then they've sort of brought them back at Right. It was kind of cooler. People thought leagues, I guess, were probably a little cooler than societies. Right. For sure.

And then they've sort of brought them back at some point like a kind of throwback team. They've been back for a while. They're around. But it's sort of like the B team. Older members

or oddball members or alternate universe versions of characters and whatever. You know, sometimes you learn stuff and then you're like, oh,

there goes the memory of my third grade science project. Here's what I hate. I feel like that's what just happened. It's just like going down some drain. What I hate is that this stuff is just in my head. It feels like it's been there forever.

And it's not like I'm erasing other memories to fit it in there. It's that other information isn't getting in in the first place. You know, I'm like, I wish I understood how to do my taxes. Instead, I can probably name 20 JSA members. I'm not

particularly good on that, but I did see Black Adam, which I feel like you didn't. I didn't. And still haven't? I've watched pieces of it on TV and airplanes. I've not actually completely redressed the balance of power. I'm a actually completely regressed balance of power. The hierarchy of power. And whatever.

Which has changed. So, Black Adam is not the movie we're talking about today. Features the JSA. Right. And they are all there. They are all there.

It is the funniest thing in the world to me in that movie when, you know, he shows up. Oh, Black Adam's here. He's punching people

or whatever. And it's just, you know uh fucking um aldous hodge who plays hawk man yeah you know gets on the line with viola davis playing lady you know dc lady amanda waller correct the wall and he's she's just like here's the deal black adam what's the play he's like easy adam smasher Dr. Fate yeah fucking Cyclone we'll do we'll take I'm just like what is this who are these people

what about Superman yes maybe call that guy if you're gonna fucking bring the JSA I swear to God we're gonna talk about the actual movie in question here but if you're gonna bring the JSA into a movie shouldn't you be like this is the secret society the oldest standing superhero team.

Rather than being like, we're going to throw some new members in. Here are a bunch of guys who basically have never worked together before. That's the plot of the movie is they don't know each other. Have a little bit of a history. No, yeah, him and Dr. Fate

are like, we go way back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's not what this movie is about. Thank the Lord about Thank the lord Thank the lord That it is not about any of that silliness There's already enough drama in this movie

I hate to see what happened Black Adam showed up So here we are We don't have a guest We were going to have a guest He cancelled very late Busy life circumstances And so here we are

And that's the clue He was a he He was a he And I think he is someone We will have on At some future point And I think will be A great guest

We won't say who it is But This is an episode We're recording this Fairly out of order We basically done We've done almost all Of our

Park Chan-wook Mini series at this point Apart from the last two films We had delayed this episode because Of guest consideration Let's just say this does not feel like The best episode For just three white guys to talk about

Solo I'm not stressed out about it But it is this is a movie that is So culturally important Within that local cinema Right that is so culturally important within that local cinema, right, and is so tied to the recent history of that country, that we just have to be

very upfront. There's a lot of stuff we probably don't totally understand in this movie. Can't speak to super accurately, but we were trying to find a guess for it, and we were unsuccessful. Yeah, I mean, whatever. Happened last minute. Here we are. We're talking JSA. We're talking Parks-Garantor

for his long, successful career. Yes. A total turnaround. Yes. Similar. From his first two, you know, sort of basically failed efforts to make something that would catch on. Similar to M. Night Shyamalan, a guy who had grand ambitions,

two swings at bat, failed to connect, and then went like, fuck it, I'm going to make a hit. And we can talk about that because, yes, I do feel like it was almost calculated. He does have a writing credit on this,

but I think, you know, there's four credit writers. This is a little more of like a project he came aboard. Sure. But let's talk about where he's at sure after my the moon is the sun's dream and trio yeah as we talked about in the last episode my man you know became the kind of the coolest thing you can be. Stay-at-home dad? Well, that is cool, but no, a movie critic. A famed movie critic.

Well, okay. Okay. You like that he's basically just got your lifestyle at this point. I don't. All but a podcast? No, it's very interesting that his film criticism, I think, was like crossover success level big. Yeah.

And I do think it was, from what I can understand of Korean film in the 90s, like there's just sort of explosive movie interest in fandom in general. Sure. In the 90s because of this like rush of Western films and suddenly the Korean film industry is kind of like back on its feet

and there's lots of interesting stuff being produced. You know, like there's this just kind of like back on its feet and there's lots of interesting stuff being produced. You know, like there's this just sort of like hyper-focused like explosion of interest in movies. And he's out there championing like his genre stuff and all that. He's connecting. He's giving people

a prism through which to understand western films. But he wants to make movies. He does. He hasn't really figured it out. No. He gets a couple hasn't really figured it out. No. He gets a couple years after Trio comes out. Because this movie, Joint Security Area, is coming out only three years later. Okay. Trio's 97, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. 2000 on the nugget. 2000. He gets the chance to direct a short film called Judgment. Okay. Which I have not seen. It's about a real thing uh the collapse of a department store in seoul uh that killed 502 people which is a lot a lot like a gigantic fucking building that just like uh you know was was it a structural failing? Okay. Gotcha.

Like the columns were wrong. I mean, you were, they really messed up this building. This is why I don't design buildings. I could not live with that pressure. but, uh, so he makes this movie called judgment.

That is, uh, it's like a 26 minute movie. It sounds incredibly depressing about a, like the body of a young girl, uh, from, from this disaster,

uh, in where two different people claim the body, like a family comes to claim it, but also one of the morgue workers is like, no, this is, this is, uh,

you know, my daughter who disappeared. Like, it's like weird, you know, kind of frightening dilemma of, it's, it you know kind of frightening dilemma it's the kind of stuff he's going to be playing with in a while for like

the vengeance trilogy I feel like here's what he says yes he was pretty poor when he's making this movie he you know would sort of basically making judgment you're saying exactly he says he would sort of hang out with his wealthier friends and

milk them just for I guess a little bit of money to sort of you know get enough together to make this had them buy people lunch I don't know I'm trying to say wait he's just talking about how Clint Eastwood is in

Steve McQueen or magneticetic's movie presence. His quotes can be kind of hard to parse. So JJ included three pages in the dossier here just of his lunch orders? I need to pare this down, JJ. Anyway, joint security area. That's coming to him fairly soon after this, obviously. His judgment is 1999.

JSA is 2000. How does this come to him fairly soon after this obviously his judgment is 1999 uh jsa is 2000 how does this come to him trio had attracted the attention of a producer okay named shim jay myung as always apologies for however i am mangling uh any korean pronunciation uh this person had a production company and she reached out and was like, do you want to direct an adaptation of a novel called DMZ? Okay. Referring, of course, to... Demilitarized. Demilitarized zone between North and South Korea.

This is a novel that's been floating around. They've been trying to figure it out. And that's what this is. Obviously, Joint Security Area is based on this novel, but this is like a big budget commercially minded project. This is not some weird noir you're going to make for 50 bucks where you're trying to challenge the form or

whatever. This is a thriller set in a very famous part of this country that is politically charged and loaded with history and meaning, but also it's just like a tense, cool environment to think about, right? Yeah. There's a big old border with soldiers on each side staring at each other.

What if those soldiers became friends? It's a totally, and then there was a murder mystery, right? And it's just an immediately arresting concept. Would you agree? Yeah. It's basically a murder mystery where the twist is they were friends all along. Right. That all of this was done out of basically shame

to cover up their friendship. So he essentially is like, I need to shake the reputation I have as like experimental director who's better as a critic, right? I want to make something mainstream. And like style over substance. 100%, right.

You know, this is all just referential and it's not, you know. Heady flash technique shit. The subject was about the division of the Korean Peninsula. It had the structure of a crime thriller, my favorite kind of film. He's getting a real budget

because Myung Film, which is this producer's company, is a real production company getting a real budget because myung film which is uh this producer's company is a real production company with a real system in place um so the only anxiety he has is this film is about north korea uh and you know about the uh the the two countries touchy to it's sensitive yes um there apparently was the way he puts it a strong law a social security law and there was some fear that the film would basically be against this law in some like they would get in legal trouble okay oh probably over the depiction of whatever you know the the Korean military.

He's, I'm going off his quote, which is somewhat vague. He just says like the producer. And I thought if we make this film that we might have to go to jail because it's against the security law. Okay. But they also were sort of like, you know what?

If it's a huge hit, I'm not going to go to jail or I will go to jail and only make it a bigger hit. Right. I don't know. They had some sort of calculation of like, you know, publicity is publicity. The film was a gigantic sensation

and contrary to his fear, it in fact ended up softening that social security law. People started to laugh at the ridiculous rigid kind of system, he said. It does look, obviously lacking the feet on the ground understanding of the cultural climate this movie came out in.

It does feel to me in what I was reading about it and its response and watching the thing, obviously, that this was like one of those examples of a movie completely meeting its moment. Yes. And sort of like speaking what was sort of unspoken in the culture and allowing some sort of sense of, I don't know, re-examination? Right. Kim Dae-jung, who is the president of South Korea from 98 to 2003, so like right at this time,

he's this very transformational figure in Korean politics as well. And he is very focused on like trying to enact some kind of peace prize peace process between the two koreas and like softening relations and you know like all this stuff he won the nobel peace prize i think in the air generally there is a sense of thaw so like a film that somewhat positively depicts the North yeah like certainly

has sympathetic characters in North Korean military that's the biggest thing maybe there's a time in Korea that would have been more of a taboo thing to depict but I think like now it's sort of like this is the moment for you know whatever this kind of interpretation well it's sort of like this is the moment for you know whatever this kind of interpretation well it's

you know the the weird thing of uh entire countries being like villainized or othered in your culture uh eventually people start to question by and large why they are living with those assumptions um yes right whatever exactly like it's right time right place in a way he's he's somewhat i think he now will kind of not talk negatively about this movie exactly but kind of be like oh you know jsa my sort of pulpy hit you know what i mean like i think he feels like he moved beyond it in terms of maturity of his storytelling and how challenging it is some the kind of commercial thing he maybe wouldn't be drawn towards anymore uh he says jsa is a well-made commercial film in my eyes it could also be an example of queer cinema dealing

with division well no shit buddy yeah i watched. Yeah, I was... You watch this movie, obviously, that's an undercurrent to it. But that's all it ends up being. Yes. I do... And maybe he's sort of like, well, now if I made that, maybe that's like fleshed out.

Covering this so early in our miniseries, as you folks are listening to it chronologically, but so late in our experience of recording these episodes, I had held off on watching this for a while as we've been going through all the other films. And I hadn't seen this movie before. And I've just

had this, the Arrow Blu-ray sitting on my shelf staring at me as I keep on taking other things off the shelf, skipping this one, jumping ahead to other Park movies. So you have that Arrow Blu-ray. And I think both in the way that, like, as in the dossiers,

the quotes, he talks about this movie retrospectively as, like, that was my pulpy early film, whatever. That was my big hit. That was my big commercial movie. And also just the Arrow cover, I think I was expecting this to be more of like, oh, he just made, like, an action movie. This is like an action thriller

versus what really is, like, oh, he just made like an action movie. This is like an action thriller versus what really is like an odd morality story. And I'm surprised by how much he kind of writes it off. His movies obviously get more complicated after this, but this is a film that is taking a relatively

complicated, like creating a complicated moral stance, especially for the moment in which it's being made And also he's already playing with For the first time successfully All of his like ideas About narrative Structure, form, all that shit

It's not like this is some straight ahead Fucking war film This movie is really good in my opinion I've seen it two or three times And I am always like Thank you I mean just thank you so much for pointing out That there was such a humble brag of mine

Of course Don't be too fucking humble I'm always like I remember that it's sort of a murder mystery And it's like this female officer Is trying to unravel like what happened here Right Which is just as Park is saying I'm immediately on board with that kind of thing and it's like this female officer is trying to unravel like what happened here you know which is

just as Park is saying like I'm immediately on board with that kind of thing I love a sort of like you know walking around a crime scene in the first scene it's like well bullets are here blood spatter here you know this guy died here he survived you know he's missing

and the cops like you know seems to me that he killed him and he flew over there and the lady's like yeah yeah no it sure seems that way unless it's not that way and there's something else going on and then she picks up some piece of fluff like that's what i love the sort of he does the kind of colombo thing in reverse right where like colombo will start out with you seeing the crime. Right. The how catch him, they call it. Comes to the scene.

Everyone else thinks it's one way. And Columbo figures out the right questions. And we know. Yes. Now, of course, you haven't watched Poker Face. David, there's a reason I'm bringing this up. Yeah, because Poker Face is doing this too. Right.

It's eight. Season's eight episode or ten episode. I've watched all but the last... I think it's ten. I think I've watched seven out of ten now. I finally... What's the last one you watched? The last one I watched was... Maybe it's six. The Judith

Light, Esopatha, Marcus... Yeah, it's a six. Okay, so I've watched six out of ten. Which is fun. I've been downing it. It's fucking incredible. But you have not yet seen the one that's about Phil Tippett? No, with Nolte, which I'm very excited for. Which I think you downing it. It's fucking incredible. But you have not yet seen the one that's about Phil Tippett? No, with Nolte, which I'm very excited for. Which I think you'll really like. But it's obviously riffing on the same format, right?

Where it's like the first 15 minutes of each episode is like you're not even seeing Natasha Lyonne. You're placed into a set of circumstances that you don't understand. You watch this whole drama play out that ends in a murder. Right. But of course, with Columbo, itbo it's like well Columbo's smart Yeah I'm not saying that Poker Face isn't smart

I'm sure what her name is Miss Poker Face Lady Poker Face Yes Miss P-Face But she knows when someone lies Yeah And it is always just so thrilling in Poker Face

Yes When you're like she's about to like she's moving on Like she's not even going to hear about Even though It's the the best and then one guy says a lie that's so odd right it doesn't feel odd but like she's just like why would he lie about right and then she can't help but right i love that thing right the park movies tend to do a similar thing except he does the opposite of it structurally. Which is you spend a good chunk of time in the sort of unknowability of a thing. And then rather than make it the big twist at the end, somewhere in the middle,

he just kind of stops the movie and starts unpacking everything. And so this has a bit of that. Yes. But it actually does kind of in my I've always been a little annoyed that it kind of actually maintains that and it's more just kind of

after that set up he's just like let me just show you what happened and maybe she'll figure it out it does take like 30 or 40 minutes before you get to that I mean we were talking because we just did Lady Vengeance last night but that he wrote that movie for her because he felt like I didn't give her enough to do in JSA.

And you start JSA, and you're like, well, this is her movie. This is fucking A Few Good Men, and she's Tom Cruise. Right, right, right, right. Which would be cool. Right. And it's like, he he's not doing the I Bet You Wonder How I

Got Here, and then just immediately the whole movie's a flashback. And he's's not doing the I bet you wonder how I got here. And then just immediately the whole movie's a flashback. And he's also not doing the, were we talking about this the other day? The thing that now all these fucking prestige TV shows do where like the cold open of the first episode is some insane scene. And then it cuts the title and the rest of the season is trying to get back to that point. Right. Wait, what is that? The cold open and then, I don't know, I can't remember. I can't remember anything anymore.

I can't either. But you know what I'm saying. The thing I like about him is he only takes you into a different temporality when you've gotten so comfortable in one place that you don't even think about moving over. Now, I will confess. And maybe you feel this way sure sometimes i'm like what's going on oh absolutely because he doesn't do any tricks no won't throw a snap a color filter on nope

he obviously won't give us a you know a title card or dissolve maybe it makes it sound dumb his movies do require an intense amount of concentration, I think, on repeat viewings. Yes. They become a lot clearer, but you don't, yes, when things are shifting

from one place to another, one perspective or another, it's sometimes hard to acclimate yourself. I will say this too, especially with this podcast when we're watching movies, I know I'm going to have

to talk about them. If I'm struggling with a film, I'll often pull up the old Wikipedia, the most reliable website in the internet. Oh, you're about to complain that the Wikipedia entries for some of these movies are not helpful in that regard? Yeah, because the problem is, it's like

they... Wikipedia? User edited, right? Wait, what? That's not written by one guy? Style guide, basically. Wikipedia user edited right there is no consistent style guide basically yeah Richardpedia right Wikipedia is the name of the man who runs all of it yes

no it's that some people in their like plot summaries synopses on their Wikipedia entries for these movies will just lay out the events of the film right without any kind of thought in the most obvious chronological order

then this happens then this happens some people do that some people do I'm explaining to you what the actual story of the movie is not how the story is told within the film and most of them I find split the difference so if I'm watching one of these movies and I'm like,

trying to make sure I'm keeping the plot thread straight, let me just look over at the Wikipedia, then I read a sense where I'm like, I don't think that happened. That just happened

and I missed that. And then it happens 30 minutes later and you're like, the Wikipedia guy decided to fucking flip this all out of order. But yes,

I was often disoriented while watching this film. I think most of his movies by the end you go oh now i think i figure out where everything was um but in the moment you sometimes don't have your bearings um i yes i think in this film you'll start a scene and one or two minutes and you will be like okay i think I understand that this is the past and I am now getting further context for what happened here. Um,

but, uh, it is, uh, I think a sort of like quite daring and challenging film considering that it's rep when you were looking at Park Chan-wook's career is like, yeah, you know,

the fucking popcorn flicky made about soldiers. Um, uh, the first time i watched it this movie i definitely remember being like i'm not sure i know what's going on uh for like half the movie right um this might be kind of embarrassing to say cut it out no keep it in keep it in the the thing of like this setup, what happened here? What a bizarre crime, right? How did we crack this? And everyone's trying to view it through like a political prism, right? Like what is the weird political intrigue?

What are the weird things that led to this set of circumstances? And the twist being, as I said, like, oh, it's basically this was an entirely emotional interpersonal story that then was uh covered up to make it seem like a more complicated political situation sure right right i mean right like the core of the thing is actually like oh this is all just about some people became friends who publicly should not have been friends right and then they mistakes were made right mistakes were made some people got shot some, some intentionally, some not. Right. And it's like, it actually benefits everyone to make it seem like something more nefarious was going on.

Exactly. But no, the fundamental thing is they were nice to each other and decided to become friends. We hung out a lot. Right. And you're like, I'd rather make it seem like I deliberately assassinated someone. Right. Than admit.

And was kidnapped and escaped and all of this. Well, it's for their own safety. Yeah. It's for their own safety. They're protecting themselves by having two different reports. Yes. Of how things went down. But, you know, it kind of causes a lot of confusion and chaos.

It does. What a tangled web we weave, etc. But, you know, it kind of causes a lot of confusion and chaos. It does. What a tangled web we weave, etc. Joint security error. Okay, so he writes this film with various people. Hawkman, Cyclone, all those guys. Dr. Fate, Adam Smasher. I mean, it's just my favorite thing in that movie. You haven't seen it, but the end.

Fucking Hawkman and Dr. Fate, you know, they're going into the battle with this sort of energy of like you know we've had a long run together have you and you know it's this is tough but i'm really gonna miss you and i'm like you're 40 years older than him yeah i've never seen either of you in a movie before yeah am i supposed to just buy this like ah these two hawkman and dr fate well so hawkman's thing in the comics is that he's like constantly reincarnated yeah he's like an egyptian god or whatever right and jimmy collet sir was like we shot like the whole explanation of they've been friends in past lives and then we cut it out

beach vacation i took like while we were talking freshman year of high school you're retaining this no you're right I'm just joking you won't remember any of this you're not making room for this we're gonna quiz you watch this Ben can you name the five members

of the Justice Society of America as the team exists in Black Adam sure Hawkfucker good good smash guy Black Adam? Sure. Hawkfucker. Good, good. Good smash guy. Okay. Black Adam. Ben, memory's still intact. You're doing okay.

Alright, fine. David, go on. Joyce, the Korea area, originally planned to shoot on location in the sort of Korean truce village of Panmunjom, which is right next to the JSA. Okay.

South Korean military essentially decided, nope. I think they thought about it, but said no. They spent a million dollars making a replica version. The most expensive movie set in the history of Korean cinema. Also the first Korean film to ever be shot on Super 35. Okay. which is basically what most hollywood movies at the time were being shot on but uh was um you know big widescreen uh

film stock obviously but that was rarer for a korean film looks phenomenal looks fucking great yeah um and then the cast is loaded with very big names but i think a lot of them were At the start of their career here So you got Lee Jung A Look I'm sorry I'm so sorry Who plays Sophie Major Sophie She's obviously going to be the star of Lady Vengeance You've got Lee Byung Hun

Who is one of the biggest Korean actors alive To this day I feel like he's best known a lot of crossover stuff here good the bad and the weird right um i saw the devil yeah i saw the devil he's he's storm shadow in the gi joe movies he's in now you see me too he's a magnificent seven red two he's red too right he's done a number of american films uh he's in squid game i believe he's the the new terminator in genesis he's the new robert patrick 1000 2.0 or whatever i can never keep track we really need to do the

terminators on patreon because yeah yeah anyway yep we do but uh that was my immediate takeaway when this movie started i did not know he was in it uh right uh i did not know he was uh that old yeah oh sure he looks really old fucking phenomenal 52 he yeah you're right and i went like mathematically how could he be in this when i saw him in american films i assumed he was 30 right um no he's he's he's on the older side um so you got the you got him. You've got Kim Tae-woo, who plays... He plays the guy who tries to kill himself by jumping out the window. Did you mention Song Kang-ho? I'm not at him yet.

Well, I'm sorry for disrupting your narrative order. Who I feel like Kim Tae-woo is best known as a big Hong Sang-soo guy. I know you're not really a Hong Sang-soo guy, but one day you'll watch his 40 movies. He's one of the great Korean filmmakers. I've seen a couple. I mean, like, you know, he directs films where people are just talking at a table for 25 minutes and then suddenly he zooms in on someone's face and you're like, oh my God. Or he'll make movies where it's like, you know, it's about like a guy who wants to date a girl, but one weird thing happens,

you know, and like, that's kind of enough for you to be like fuck um i'm intrigued he rolls uh the only problem with him is that every year i'm like okay i think i'm like pretty fresh on him yeah and then he's like i have three new movies bitch i made him yesterday and you're like ah god damn it i can't keep track um for a listener who would maybe want to get into his stuff what's a good entry movie i really recommend that's a really good question uh right now wrong then is sort of the classic i've seen that one uh which is the one where it's like you watch a date happen and then halfway into the movie he's like we're gonna watch the same date happen it's gonna go differently oh it's just that okay i like that yeah uh i really like yourself and yours which is

impossible to describe um but yeah i don't know know. There's a lot, you know, fucking ask JJ because he's like the biggest Hong Sang-soo fan in America and our researcher and he'll tell you. He'll probably send you a really long text message. That's right, JJ. I'm dragging you. He'll send you a very long text message late at night and then send you an even longer text

message apologizing for the length of the text message. So, and then, yes, you've got Song Kang-ho, who we'll talk about more in a minute, but obviously is going to be in lots of the films we're talking about going forward and is one of the great actors alive. Agreed.

I think. And really, post-Parasite, I feel like Western, even like many, many Western viewers finally are sort of like, I'm fully aware of that guy. I know you said you want to talk about him more later, but just while we're on this, can I say this? Because it's a general just as he stands today.

He is, it is incredible how his command of his instrument in terms of how expressive he is and the depths of emotion he can express while barely moving a muscle on his face. And the older he's gotten, I think the more powerful he's gotten only because his face becomes more interesting as lines develop, as gravity develops or whatever. It is fascinating to watch him this young when his face is

kind of like perfect, when he doesn't have, he's not wearing his experience, you know, and still be able to communicate so much with so little. There's just like incredibly deep reservoir feeling in this guy that he is able to convey with a real economy of actual movement and gesture. He's the best.

I agree. Incredible pun. One thing that's interesting, apparently that the north korean actors he pulled out of the theater world and the south korean the south korean characters sure in this way he pulled out of like the more positive popular entertainment world oh he wanted the south koreans to feel looser sure he wanted the north korean actors to feel like more strict he wouldn't let them improvise apparently song kanko was mad about that like so basically they had to feel like more strict, he wouldn't let them improvise. Apparently Song Kang-ho was mad about that. They had to feel like rigid. Accomplish the difference through getting people from

different acting schools and styles. Exactly. That's cool. Alright, so let me give you some Song Kang-ho news. Please. News or background? But also maybe do a little Google search, see what's always got popping. Why not?

Song Kang-ho news. Click the news tab. It's a new segment called Let Me Be Song Kang-ho. Apparently he's in a new film called Cobweb. Okay, cool. In which he plays a director. That seems to be the new big thing. Indulgent.

Okay. It seems to be the take on this movie. Now give me some background. Came up in community theater. So, you know, didn't, I think, go to like film acting or film school or anything like that. He's a theater guy. Doesn't appear in a movie until he's 29. Okay.

He is in The Day the Pig Fell into a Well, which is the first Hong Sang-soo movie. Gotcha. And one of the great titles. Yeah, pretty incredible. How old is he in this? Well, if that was 96, so he's probably like 34, 35. He's in Li Chengdong's film Greenfish.

That's Li Chengdong's first movie, which I highly recommend. I recommend all his movies. You know him best for Burning, probably. His last film, which is fucking great um you know start doing some supporting roles then he's in shiri which i think we will talk about in a future episode uh which was a which was before jsa the biggest korean hit ever gotcha uh supporting role there uh and so then he's in this so it's sort of like the man is stacking bugs, right? He keeps popping up in these big movies.

He had no expectations from director Park because his first two movies had not gone anywhere. Sure. Says he has tremendous artistic talent and warmth as a person. He visited the JSA when he was researching this role. Looked into the eyes of a North Korean soldier. He says, I tensed up and got so nervous. The North Korean soldier was very young

and he gave a shy smile to me. I cannot forget that moment. And he thought this is representative of the story this film is trying to tell the audience. These are people too. They have their own emotions, right? They're not just like this scary wall of, you know. He says that this film, he thinks,

was very important in a transformation in Korean ideology, trying to strip away the stereotype of North Koreans, allowing, you know, seeing them as people, that they're the same as we are. He liked making it and basically was like,

wherever this director goes, I'm there. Right? Yeah. Obviously, he's also in tons of films directed by Bong Joon-ho right but this is before he's worked with Bong at all yes right yes because he's not in Barking Dogs his first movie with Bong is

Memories of Murder which he's amazing in are Bong and Park already friends at this point? I don't know. I don't have a friendship database. Well, maybe you should. Maybe I should. Spend the rest of my life trying to figure out

when everyone became friends in the world. I don't have friends database. That's a good website. There's a good business out there. So let's talk about the plot of JSA. And it is, as this is going to happen to us, I feel like this happens to us on a lot of the episodes. Yes.

These movies are tough to recap in a way because of the out-of-order narrative. It's the Wikipedia problem. Our own Wikipedia problem. Like, if we were Wikipedia. Right. You're like, am I trying to recount the order in which the information is delivered to me

or the story as I now understand it on the other side? Right. So, there has been a murder in the joint security area, the North Korean border house, across the bridge of no return at the DMZ, which is the, you know, the big demarcation line

between North and South Korea after the Korean War. Two North Korean soldiers are dead. One was shot seven times. Right. So they're like, there's intensity. This is not, right, just like an assassination or whatever. Right. A South Korean soldier, Suh Hyuk,

was clearly, who was a border soldier, was clearly kidnapped or captive Or something and has escaped And been rescued This has all happened Wounded leg He's hurt

This has all happened And so Major Sophie E. Jean Of the Swiss Army Has been brought in by the United Nations To basically like Untangle this Like something crazy has happened Can we

You know diffuse this and figure out what went on Before there's an escalation Her Swiss bosses Yes Her Swiss superiors This film actually has a surprising amount of English language dialogue From her Swiss Swiss German you you know,

uh, bosses. It is that funny thing of like, you're watching genuine, like Swiss German actors speaking in English, which is neither their natural language nor Park Chan-wook's natural language. But it's just, I don't think the performances are bad,

but they do have that feeling sometimes of like, I don't know if you feel this, but when you watch like a foreign language film that has like one English speaking actor in it and the temperature of that performance feels very different than everyone else. But it also feels different than when you see an English speaking performance in an American

or English speaking movie. Sure. Where you're like, it's at a different frequency. I agree with that. Yeah. I do think it's a bit of an odd. you're like, it's at a different frequency. I agree with that. I do think it's a bit of an odd. It's just, there's... There's just a fair amount of them, and it just ends up being

completely inconsequential, I guess. It's sort of my real problem with it. Yes. Like, which is sort of the same with Sophie in general. Yeah. Like I already said, she feels she's front-loaded in this movie,

and then very quickly, she's just, yeah. Because once again know a lot of other movies would truly just use her as means to an end this is the cold open it's five minutes and then you go to the story right the fact that this movie basically hands the whole first act over to her yeah uh it makes you think like she should be more important it feels like she's going to crack the case. Right. These are all going to be supporting characters and her putting the puzzle pieces together. But that's not really it.

She's more there to just kind of be like, huh, this autopsy is weird. This guy was shot a bunch. So was there some sort of grudge? Huh, there's a bullet that no one can find. What happened there? Yeah. I feel like Dr. Park,

I'm not even saying it's an audience surrogate character, but he usually places a character in the center of the movie who doesn't quite know what's going on, is being, information is withheld from them. Right. Or obscured from them, and just tries to place you

in their sense of confusion for a bit until you reveal what everyone else is up to. Whether or not they're the lead character. And she's serving that function. You're supposed to be watching her and also going, I can't figure this out either. Turns out, what happened was they were all friends. They were all friends.

And they had a bunch of That 70s Show hangs together. The real joint security area was the friendships we made along the way. I am sorry for the That 70s Show reference. But? But they sit in a square. Yep. Around a table. Camera spinning.

The camera is literally whipping around. They're smoking. They're smoking. Now, they're not smoking tubes. The wacky tobacco. Right. But of course, in That 70s Show, they never really said that that's what they were doing

No in the same way there might be some jazz cigarettes Right out of frame I don't know But I could not help but be like It's like that 70s show But I do love that it's just That's the mystery they were friends They learned that they have

Like shared humanity Sort of by accident. Which is almost the most shameful thing. You're not supposed to think of them as actual human beings. They have this surreal job, which I think Park is so fascinated by. Them just standing, looking at each other. Yes. Across the border.

Right. Feet away from each other. And it's like, you have these peoples who are ethnically basically the same. They're all Korean. They're all from this peninsula. We fucking drew a line

after the Korean War. And now they cannot interact with each other. And your culture is basically telling you the guy who is on the other side of that line. They're terrifying.

Right. They're like inhuman. They hate you. Blah, blah, blah. All this. Right. And like, that's are terrifying. Right, yeah. They're like inhuman. They hate you. Blah, blah, blah. All this. Right. And like, that's all, you know, that's all just like bubbling away.

And these guys are the only guys, like it feels like in the whole country, who actually get to look at each other in the face. But of course, they can't talk. Right. Really. Yes. And you have like these early things

where like the tourists, you're just getting the emojis, right? I'm getting some diamonds. I'm doing some spins. What if I deleted that app and barred you from ever returning to it? Would it be good for your life? No, it'd be fine. Someone on Reddit said that.

And then someone in the comments was just like, his vices could be so much worse. That is so true. We should be happy this is where it's topping out. But, you know, I used to throw that in my mom's face when I was a teenager a lot or she'd be like you know why are you playing video games all day and I'll be like you know the things I could be doing and she'd kind of be like

all right but you know at the same time my objections to you you play too many I'm not proud of it but on some level I am sometimes astounded I don't have a crippling drug problem I'm glad you don't. Please don't develop one. Exactly.

So I'm just like, let me just fucking spin the wheel. Also, if you delete it, it wouldn't do anything because I back up all my data on Facebook. I have a fake Facebook account that I only use to back up Disney emoji blitz on two different devices. It's all in the cloud. You can't fucking take me down. I won't. I'm sorry. I would never dare.

But I just like all the i like all the aesthetics of the border itself that he's so like that he keeps thinking about so right on top of each other yeah only there though by the way i just want just briefly while we're on other places throughout the border there's so much more separation yes i think that's the only place where like a exact like a prisoner exchange would happen or whatever. That's like the bottleneck. Right. I think this actually has recently changed. I think there is some...

The JSA now is kind of almost like a museum or whatever. But anyway, go on. Can I just quickly say a soft subject? Because you brought it up. I know I told you this, David. Is this going to be about that? Disney Mo blitz? Absolutely.

We're talking about... It's like, just, you know, just mark it and edit it out. Right. And actually, AJ, keep it in, triple it. I have a fake Facebook account that I only use to back up

Disney emoji blitz on two different devices. I have a fake Facebook account that I only use to back up Disney emoji blitz on two different devices. I have a fake Facebook account that I only use to back up

Disney emoji blitz on two different devices. But I've been Facebook account that I only use to back up Disney emoji blades on two different devices. But, I've been playing this game for years. I get cast in Disney's Disenchanted. I get so excited

at the notion that I'm gonna fucking be in this game. Right? It's like, oh, I'm like a cute animal character. Every time they have a new movie come out,

be it in theaters or Disney+, they do a special event to tie in to the new Disney movie. They add the new emojis you can play as, whatever. Disenchantment comes and goes. No inclusion in the app.

You know what they just announced they're adding? The Golden Girls. Now, no disrespect to the Golden Girls. I mean, they're a pretty big deal. Those guys fucking own TV. A phenomenal sitcom. I don't think of them as like Disney characters. Well, they're TV. A phenomenal sitcom. I don't think of them as like Disney

characters. Well, they're in the wheelhouse now. Yeah. Were they on ABC? Yeah. Pip isn't. Thank you for being a friend. Right? That's them. Get ready to get a bunch of fucking Blanche emojis coming in tech soon. Good, but that's a good

well, actually kind of looking forward to that. Good segue back to JSA. Thank you for being a friend. Thank you for being a friend. It turns out they're friends. Down the road and back again. You've got this North Korean soldiers in the more sort of, you know, throwback-y communist uniforms.

Like, you know, pretty vintage. Pretty classic. They do. They've got the aviators. They've got the little round helmets. They look more like sort of UN peacekeepers. South Korean guys, they've got the aviators, they've got the little round helmets. They look more like sort of UN peacekeepers. More modern jackets, too. I'm not a war guy. I think it's pretty well established. I hear ya.

The South Korean uniforms are pretty fucking sharp. Oh, you think they're sharp? I think they're pretty sharp. Fixed up, look sharp. It's not a thing I really fetishize. Sure. But I just was like, that's a good uniform. One of the South Korean soldiers,

the lead, So Hyuk, Lee Byung-hung's character, was on patrol. Yeah. He gets lost. Yes. Which, by the way,

like, don't do that. Don't do that. Bring a map or something. I don't know. Like, if I'm on patrol at the border, I definitely do not want to cross into the border. Yeah, if your job is to never cross a line, I wouldn't do it. Bring a map or something. I don't know. Like, if I'm on patrol at the border, I definitely do not want to cross into the border.

Yeah, if your job is to never cross a line, I wouldn't go wandering. Right? Like, there's a physical line you never want to cross over. I wouldn't be like, let me just stumble around and see what I happen upon. He, well, he stumbles onto a mine.

One of the worst things you could stumble onto. I would be so fucking mad. I'd be fucking furious if I ever stepped on a mine. And he is found by Kyung-Pil, who is a Sankin Noh's character, and another guy, Woo-Jin, who is the other guy. Right. The guy who, he's also,

Shin Hak-Kyun, he's in Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, and he's in Lady Vengeance, and he's in lots of stuff but here's this enemy they're taught to demonize and in a moment when you actually just see a human being standing on a mine with terror in their eyes it is hard not to feel

basic human empathy for that person and they're even having a little fun there's something about the dog that also animals are universally, we all can say that we

love animals. There's this connection where you don't want to hurt. They brought a dog with them, it rumbles them by barking, and then they're like, why did we bring the dog? There's a whole thing where you're like, yeah, it's very relatable. North Korean dogs are that different from South Korean dogs.

Dogs don't know politics. That's right. Dogs ain't got no country lines. They just cute. They just cute. So they just cute. Yes, they just cute. So they help him.

They free him from this mine. And so they sort of they free him from this mine and so they sort of start to become friends they throw each other messages look their lives do seem boring it is monotonous and kind of crushingly dull probably

I do think it's funny I mean you were saying that there's the gay subtext to this film right that there's the um gay subtext to this film right that there's the sort of perhaps romantic yes undertone there look there's this film doesn't pursue that angle and that's fine honestly because it's more about this shared empathy that these people discover for each other but i'm watching it being like these guys are kind of in love right like the main two guys especially when you literally start this

thing out with like passing notes right it felt to me like kids getting hormonal in middle school being like wait a second yeah what's the other half doing right right you know like so much of them sort of like this weird clandestine like we have to like meet while no one's looking and like share a drink does feel like uh adolescence finally sort of like becoming aware and interested and curious right right um well they're like big uh teens in military uniforms yep and they're sneaking into a sleepover Yeah That's what I felt They start to basically have big sleepover hangs It feels like the boys from the boys bunk Sneaking out overnight into the girls bunk

But you know They play cards I don't know what they do They smoke cigarettes They drink hooch They just Guys being dudes. A little bit. Yeah.

I mean, they fart. They do fart. They do fart. They have some fart jokes. Now, thirst has a major fart element, which we'll talk about in that episode.

I do like that my man's not above a fart joke. He's not, but it's the unifying power of the fart. Right. Fart as characterization. I would be annoyed. He's not using a fart as a punchline. He's using it it's the unifying power of the fart Right fart as characterization I would be annoyed He's not using a fart as a punchline He's using it to reveal layers

I would be kind of like Okay guys we're really doing this That's what I would be like It seems like an incredibly bad fart too They react to the fart almost with More extreme panic than the landmine Now Because it's too late it's gone off The fart's gone off There's no way to disarm it extreme panic than the landmine. Now...

Because it's too late. It's gone off. The fart's gone off. Right. There's no way to disarm it. There is basically nothing else to describe about all of this until things go wrong.

Right. You're not cutting back into this until like 30, 40 minutes in, and then you're really living in it. You're watching it... You're mostly in this, yes. ...very gradually develop. It is a thing i love about his films

uh that you know we talked he does an odd order an odd chronology right uh he drops you in his scenes without a complete understanding awareness of where you are when you are at first um a thing i think he is very good at in all of his films that I think is almost like an under-discussed aspect of narrative filmmaking is like the actual nature of time, right? Sure. That movies play out in real time. And unlike TV, where you might binge all the episodes, you might watch them once a week spread out, whatever, right?

Or a book, which you pick up, put down at your own convenience. Movies are meant, in theory, to be watched from beginning to end when you start them, in whatever way you're watching them. And there are things that sink in more deeply if real time has passed in your life since an element was established, if that makes sense. Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like, the fact that you actually have to watch them be friends for 40 minutes, you could do this all in a montage.

You could just be like, and then peace was brokered, and it's like five minutes of just watching over months or weeks or days or whatever their friendship growing but i actually think because of where this film starts because we start from trying to unravel the mystery because it's surprisingly the puzzle like it solves itself to be like oh it was actually just about friendship the thing he needs to do is have you live in their friendship for an actual period of time in your life right you know You know, to really sit in this. Because then you start to lose track of, oh, right, something bad has to happen, right?

Hmm. Hmm. I know where this started. And, like, you know it's fraud. Right. You know, it's like, they can't be friends in joint security. Right, which if he makes the friendship 10 minutes of actual screen time you're never going to lose track of

the bad fallout that's going to happen and then that will just sort of be like well yeah obviously that was obviously i'm gonna get rumbled because what happens is they eventually get rumbled and it's like there's no explanation you can't be like you don't get it these guys are a good hang you know like that's like because that's like basically all it is well also just like the the combat intensifies there's that moment where they're standing at the fence and they're watching all the explosions going off yeah and they're sort of like standing there with tears in their eyes and they're like i think we maybe shouldn't go over there and hang out with them anymore right and there's just this feeling of like we've been living in this nice little bubble

of like cognitive dissonance. But we're pushing our luck or whatever. Right. And the stakes of what's going on around us are just getting amped up. The longer we let this go on,

the worse it's going to get. Especially because their service, they're close to both being done. Yeah. At least the soldiers on the South Korean side.

Right. We've had our fun, but don't we want to get out of here clean when this is over with and just move on with our lives? Because there's

no future to this friendship. Yeah, there's not really upside to the friendship apart from that it's nice that they have, you know, found some common humanity

and all that. But right. They are more just kind of passing the time. Like, they're bored. They're here. It's nice that they can be pals. all that but right they are more just kind of passing the time like they're bored they're they're here it's nice that they can be pals yes there's something transgressive and exciting about it which is also where i feel like you start to just automatically think of like queer readings

of this relationship um but at the end of the day they just start farting in each other's faces and drinking radiator wine or whatever like it's not like that crazy. Yeah. But there's also the excitement of showing someone, exposing them to a new kind of music. Sure. Check out the snack cake. You never had it before. The snack cake. That's my favorite thing where the most tense they get

in the glory days of the friendship is the combative argument about who has better desserts. Yeah. Which culture has better treats. It's a good thing to debate. It's a great thing to debate. Who do you think has the best desserts? Unfortunately, I got to say the French.

Ah, the French. The patisserie. Oui. Le financier. I did experience a cronut for the first time recently. Oh, you were near my office. You were at Dominique Ancel? Yep.

What flavor was it? Your office? What the fuck are you talking about? The Atlantic's office is in Soho. It's near Dominique Ancel. I just want to point out that you just referred to Dominique Ancel as your office. No, I said you were near my office. Dominique Ancel.

They're two separate thoughts. Then it's my you were near my office. Dominique Ansel. It was their two separate thoughts. Then it's my mistake. It's your mistake. And you're embarrassing. I heard you say, ah, my office. Ah, Zip French. Did I ever tell the Michael Shannon story on Mike? Yes.

Did I? I believe so. Did I? I'm pretty sure. Do you want to retell it? It happened at Dominique Ansel. Do you want to retell it? It's on Michael Shannon there.

And... I don't think I told this story. Did I tell this story? I don't think you have I've heard it before. I don't think I've heard it He's heard it. Then tell it Look, I'm in line at Dominique and so I like to go and get their white chocolate macadamia nut cookie which I think is good Yet another humble brag

The cronut, I've had the cronut but the cronut is kind had the cronut but you know it's a cronut is kind of a lot yeah it's a pretty rich thing i gotta say it really did not uh sort of start the day off you're not gonna be like dashing through the street after downing that thing i'm a little surprised by its staying power for that reason it look it's it's it's totally good it's just it's just a very very rich treat It's a special thing I'm in line

Dominique Enstel's always got a line There's always tourists there The guy in front of me The cash register lady Is waving him over Hey He's not looking he's looking at his telephone Phone addicted world that we live in

So I don't even touch him But I do the kind of like Hey you know you're up You know I kind of like wave And he turns to look at me and it is Michael Shannon Who is really tall Taller than you I think he's a really big guy

Like just generally like Imposing He's got like wild shaggy hair Big beard And he goes like all right all right like he like goes to a hundred full take shelter yeah like oh it's my turn you know and i'm like while this is happening i'm like oh my god this is michael shannon and i seem to have annoyed him sure uh or whatever he goes and orders he ordered like 400 fucking items yeah um i go and order

and then we're waiting you're just standing there yeah and i'm like i'm just gonna look at my phone i'm not going to have any further interaction with michael shannon i don't want to embarrass myself i don't want to do anything to annoy him more uh then he gets his order and unprompted just like claps me on the back and goes like i'll see you next time, buddy. And walks out. See, I... It's a good story. You feel like you didn't remember any of that story. No, definitely not.

Then maybe you never did tell it on mic. I think I never told it on mic. I kept meaning to. I can't remember. There's some episode where I'm like, I gotta tell my Michael Shannon story. Our buddies at Podcast of the Ride have introduced a thing that I think

is quietly revolutionary in podcasting. What's that? I don't want to just take their bit. What's the bit? They've instituted the five-timers club. Her stories? Yes. We definitely have a few that belong, I think.

Right. That would be automatic inductees. Right. You're not talking about which guests have been on multiple times. It's which exact anecdotes. Right. Have been told five times. Sure, sure, sure.

Because you do this for long enough and you start to really lose track of, have I said this before? And have I said it on this show? Right. In my real life too many times? On other people's podcasts? What have you? Right.

But you start to wear it as a badge of honor. I think we need our fans to comb through the archive. Yes. Identify whoever reaches that level. There's definitely candidates. Yeah, the story of me and my friend watching the documentary about aliens and finding out that Sigourney Weaver... At least three times. Got nominated for Best Actress.

That might be a five-time record. And he went, whoa! Whoa! Okay. Anyway, that's Dominique. Why did you ever... Oh, we were talking desserts. Because the boys love desserts.

Oh, you're right desserts. Because the boys love desserts. Oh, right. Ah, the French. We're going back up the Inception levels to remember what the fuck we were talking about. This is where we were. Like, we go back, they kick, kick, kick. Oh, right. Desserts.

Yeah. Cronut, though, good. What flavor did you get? I feel like I just got... It's the seasonal flavor. It always changes. He's got wacky flavors, though? So there's always one flavor,

and it sort of rotates. It was like Blood Orange the last time I went there, maybe? I don't know. And maybe you've never had the real... Raspberry Jam and Pistachio. That kind of sounds like my shit. Oh, la la!

Raspberry Jam and Pistachio! I just imagine Lumiere serving all of these up. Yeah, no, that sounds nice. Okay. Okay. What else? They just hang out. Look, eventually they just hang out. It's revealed they got

rumbled by a commanding officer. Guns got pulled. Right. They have this stuff of like... I'm saying there's the moment where they witness the combat and they try to draw the line. Yeah. The South Koreans go like, we should try to end this. There's also, you know, there's the sort of charged moments

with the guns. Yes. Where one of them's like, I'm the best shot, you know, with this. And the other one's like, yeah, but you ever actually fucking killed anyone? You know, like there's that kind of stuff. Foreshadowing. There's the foreshadowing there and just the sort of like differing whatever approaches to being in the military

like you know the Korean soldiers the Korean volunteering it's not volunteering the Korean like length of service in South Korea is like two years I think and obviously in North Korea it's much longer and basically like so so so many people in that country are in the military.

It's very large military. It's like, you know, it's like a thing to do, I think. So there's that, you know, they're talking about those shared experiences. But yes. Okay. Eventually they're sort of like, should we pull back? Sure. Then they get rumbled and guns get drawn and there's a Mexican standoff.

And then everyone starts shooting each other. Sure. Right? Yeah. I mean. Yes. Yes. And I do love this.

Mm-hmm. Anytime it happens in fiction, the post, you know, right? You know. Yes. A couple people are dead when one guy immediately figures out like here's what has to happen you have to do this right pretend you escaped you have to shoot me yeah you know in the arm or whatever right and that all happens and we arrive back in the present you know what i'm sorry i was saying this is not one of those stories that starts at the dramatic climax and

then takes you back to how you got there, right? But I did forget that the opening of this movie is the owl. Yeah, well, I love that. Where you're like, what is this? And then you get back to it later. And not since Live and Let Die, Moonraker. I think it's Moonraker that has the double take from the pigeon.

Yeah. Have we gotten such a good reaction shot from a bird? Opening with the owl is so cool. Yes. Yes, it's Moonraker. Right. And the owl is, yeah, is responding to the gunshot.

Yes, yes. Right, the semi-accidental. The first gunshot, which, you know, then leads to this, like, shootout. Right. But then, yes, the owl ties us back into the present.

Interpolated with all of this are all the interrogations where they're trying to untangle why, you know, it went down this way, what really happened. One of which, in panic, almost leads to a suicide attempt. Right. Yeah. He You know That character is Sung Shik I believe He first Jumps out a window

And then Shoots himself Right? No he attempts to Gun is not loaded Gun isn't loaded then he jumps out the window He's in a coma Right

Cause he's terrified a coma right right right right uh because he's terrified of uh questioning in under scrutiny yes so um there's that kind of like longer tail right of like they cannot like sort of they there's a mess that they can't clean up essentially like and it's not only are there people dead but there's like you know the lingering impact on the people who survived is too much to handle uh and i do feel like yeah it's just this very good metaphor for like you know the ravages of like it's not even a war at this point i mean technically the war's still going on but just this like you know this never-ending standoff right right? That, like, I mean,

I don't want to weigh in on Korean reunification or whatever, but obviously it would be better if everyone was together and was friends, in my opinion. Not to be very heterosexual about it and keep hitting the same... You're going to be heterosexual about it. I'm going to be very heterosexual about it

and keep hitting the same point. But I was just like, what is this reminding me of? And then I was like, it's like the fucking Little Rascals movie. Where they're just like, we're... Heterosexual is not the word. Okay, go ahead. It's like the Little Rascals movie. Here's our little clubhouse. What's the one thing we know? We hate women.

Sure. And then Alfalfa's like, I think girls are kind of cool. Sure. And they start like sneaking over I just, I want someone Who listens to this show To write a PhD doctoral dissertation Comparing On Griffin saying he was about to get heterosexual

And then just describing A plot point from The Little Rascals movie I'm saying Nope, book length Just lay it all out. For straighties, the boring thing of like when you're a kid, you're just like, what do you know? Opposite sex is gross.

When you're a little boy or a little girl, sure, you get pitted against each other. I see. Don't want to be seen talking to them. Right. And then once like the threshold is crossed, you're like, oh, this is kind of cool, but also, no one can know about this. So, you think the ideological differences between the Democratic

Republic of Korea and South Korea is similar to boys and girls thinking each other have cooties? I'm saying North Korea's from Mars, South Korea's from Venus. Just saying someone,

someone just wants to take a bite of that apple. It's a big apple. Yeah. Crunchy. Yeah. Yeah. Where did you find such a bizarre warped mind to study? Oh,

I listened to a podcast and this guy. Yeah. Right. Like the, the, the advising professor is like, this is too out there. It's just strange.

How did you get security clearance? It's like fucking Hannibal Lecter in a glass case. So eventually, as this is all getting untangled, Sophie gets pulled off the case. It turns out her dad was a POW who had some North Korean ties during the war. That makes her not neutral enough and she can't do it anymore. Right.

So then she's actually kind of freer to just sort of be with the guys and be like, come on, guys. Like, I know what really happened. Right. Like, something really happened. Now she just wants to know for her own satisfaction, basically. Right. Yeah. The loose end is the extra bullet.

They're able to do a count on how many bullets were discharged, how many are left in the clip, and there's one bullet that's unaccounted for. And is able to figure out that

there was some friendly fire. Right. It turns out that Seo-Hook actually shot first, right? And, you know, eventually he, well, at the end of the movie, kills himself out of guilt over the the entire thing essentially uh and then there is this phenomenal closing shot the photo of this photo that was taken at the beginning of the movie by a dumb tourist yes dumb american tourist in a red hat yeah that by mistake

unites all the characters like this photo that just accidentally includes them all. It's very, very cool. They were together the whole time. Poetic. Right. Yes. But also the idea of someone unknowingly could walk by a scene, take a random photo, and not even understand what they're actually

capturing in that moment. Right. That story, I probably fucking, I don't think it's a five-time, but I've definitely said this on the podcast before, that you've read Born Standing Up, right? The Steve Martin book? Yeah, years ago, yeah.

There's the part where he worked at Disneyland for years and years and years and did the magic shows and shit, and then finally had the moment where he was like, I need to have the courage to make a go of this

and see if I can really be a comedian, and quits Disneyland and like starts his career. Right. After like he started working there when he was like 12 or something, uh, insane from basically when it opened. And when he left Disneyland,

he had this moment where he was like walking out the gates for the final time and looking back and being like, I wonder if this is the moment I'll regret for the rest of my life. And there was like a small mousy woman standing by the gates as the place was closing with a camera. And he was like, I wonder if she's taking a picture of the place closing. And then like decades

go by. Steve Martin becomes Steve Martin. He's obviously this huge fucking art collector. He goes to a Diane Arbus show and he sees the photo. Oh, that's insane's insane wait that's so cool and it was diane arbis was that woman before she was well known and here are the photos for sale and he is like this photo she could not have known right is capturing the most pivotal moment

in my life that is cool it is that exact day it is that exact moment and she didn't know what she was taking. Right. You know, and it's like, this is a much more complicated tableau with a lot of... Then this random tourist taking a photo thing. It's just a tourist going like,

what a weird thing. Now, is there... This joint security area. Is there a photo of Alfalfa realizing that he actually likes girls, though? Yes. Like, the moment that he realized it. Yeah, Anthony Pelicano.

That's how that movie ends. Was tapping. Like, black and white. Yeah. I think about that all the time. The Little Rascals movie should have a moment where a private eye comes out and goes, you're not going to like what you see

and give spanky manila envelope of photos. But as someone who's lived in New York for quite a while, I mean, you're both lifelong New Yorkers, of course. We're in so many tourist photos. Sure, I suppose that's true. People are always taking photos. I think about that all the time. There's all

of these photos of me floating out there in the ether in the background of random people from all over the world. Especially in a smartphone era. Family vacation. Yeah, it's funny to think about. Yeah. No, it's a beautiful landing. And it's... Look, it's funny to think about Yeah No it's a beautiful ending Look

It's a very universal concept But it's a thing I've not really seen people put in the movies The opening of Past Lives Does a similar thing I think so well Yes Where you're just like people watching Which we do all the time And then you have the idle thoughts

Oh what's this? What's this like trio of people in a restaurant? Right. Like this doesn't look like everyone else. Right. You know, see two people of the same age. They're on a date. They're married.

You know, but like, oh, these three people? What's the deal here? Right. And you're kind of curious. You're trying to puzzle it out. And you never think about it ever again. And that movie is just, no, we're going to explain everything to you we don't have a box office

for this now in the future episodes sometimes we're playing a box office game for the Korean box office because someone eventually translated that for us we didn't have access to the Korean box office

for the first chunk of episodes. And recently a listener very graciously took the time to do this for us. But he couldn't get JSA. So we were doing a lot of equivalent American box office weekends but when the film didn't really have an American release.

Just looking at the American weekend of when it came out in South Korea. Which I guess we have to do here because I don't have anything else for you. But you're right. There might be a chance to fill in those other games somewhere else. Shiri had come out the year before. As I said, in 1999. Widely regarded as the first true Korean blockbuster.

Broke ticket sales for Korean film. And then broke the ticket sales record for any film defeating Titanic. Wow. There are then campaign slogans for something called Shiri syndrome. People sort of, it became this almost like patriotic thing of like, you know, we have to beat Titanic. Like, let's revive domestic cinema, right? Let's beat the dominance of America.

JSA comes out in September, early September of 2000. Okay, so this movie sort of became the right vehicle for that energy on top of the movie. Everything is already there. You know, like people are already... And this film

bests Shiri's total. It's the highest grossing movie in Korean film history. At the time, it makes $29 million. The next year, there's a movie called Friend that makes $40 million. So this keeps getting topped. Yeah. But the success is obviously crucial. There have been many American attempts, as with a lot of these movies,

to remake this, which has never happened. But as with every single fucking foreign film or television show set on the border, America's like, what if we set it in the U.S.-Mexico border? Not the same. Not the fucking same. Not the fucking same. It's so stupid. It's so stupid Talk about a movie that is so specifically Tied to its

Culture, its time, its place That cannot be transmuted Onto something else And like you know the thing I'm mostly thinking of Obviously is the FX show The Bridge Which took this show that was set Between Denmark and Sweden And was like it's set during the you know between America and Mexico

And obviously like there's Border you know There's art to be made about the border It's not like America and Mexico now. And obviously, there's border... There's art to be made about the border. It's not like it's uninteresting. But it's not easy to transpose. Look, David Franzoni, the guy who wrote Gladiator, and Amistad, wanted to direct a JSA remake in America.

In 2019, after 14 years of near silence, announced it with Ana de Armas and Demian Bashir. Weird. And it was going to be by a U.S. Marine and a female Spanish infantry lawyer sent by the Hague to investigate a shootout between U.S. Marines

and Mexican Special Forces. Obviously, this has never happened. Yeah. When was that announcement? 2019 never happened. Yeah. Doesn't make any sense. When was that announcement? 2019. Wow. Okay. In 2014, however,

this film was adapted into a Korean stage musical. Wow. Which got kind of bad reviews. Okay. The film did get some good reviews in America when it was finally released in 2005. But yeah, its impact in Korea is much more crucial to consider, I think.

Tarantino was an early booster of this movie. Obviously, he's a big park booster in general. But he has put it on, I don't know, there's some list. He's got this list. I have the list in front of me. I want to read it quickly because I do find it interesting how many of these movies we've actually covered. But he loves the distinction

of like my favorite movies since I started making movies. The moment I'm not just watching as a fan, I'm watching as a fellow filmmaker. And these are basically like the 20 movies since Reservoir Dogs that he was jealous of. Right. Okay?

Battle Royale. Right, which he goes on about all the time. Right, that's like his number one. Woody Allen's anything else, weirdly. He's always been a huge fan. He fucking loves and also thinks it's quietly a time travel movie, I think. Sorry. I mean, I'd love to hear the reason.

Yeah, Tekashi Mike's Addition. Yeah, yeah. Story Hark's The Blade. Yeah, great movie. Boogie Nights, Dazed Story Hark's The Blade. Yeah, great movie. Boogie Nights, Dazed and Confused, Dogville, Fight Club,

Friday. Hell yeah. The Host. It's a great list. Right. And then here we're getting to some blank check shit. The Insider.

Great movie. JSA. Hell yeah. Lost in Translation. They'd be lost. The Matrix, though he hates the sequels. He's wrong.

He's very wrong. Memories of a Murder. Of Murder, yes. Police Story 3. Is that the one with Michelle Yeoh? Yeah, that's super cool. Front and center? Yeah.

Shaun of the Dead. Speed. Yep. Goes too fast. Team America World Police. Yep. Unbreakable. Unbreakable.

Fuck yeah. Unbreakable. Amazing. Mr. Glass. They call him that. So we've covered several of those and have maybe one more that will be discussed soon. What? Glass. They call him that. So we've covered several of those and have maybe one more that will be discussed soon. But the other one he always says is that Sunshine

would be on that list if not for the last half an hour, which he is wrong about. Yeah. Well, let's do the box office for September 8, 2000. We've actually done it before. It's The Way of the Gun's box office. Fuck. Number one at the box office. As you said, though, there's no way you remember that one.

No. That episode is really... The box office game, the website, the other day, did a top five two days after we had recorded it, and I still got a bunch of it wrong. Yeah, it's hard to remember this stuff.

Number one of the box office, opening to only $9 million. It's a new film. stuff. Number one in the box office, opening to only $9 million. It's a new film. It is coasting off the success of a 1999 hit and boosting its star, who's actually not really the star. He's more of a supporting character in the film. It's a villain, actually.

The Witcher? The Watcher. That's what I meant. That's what it is. James Spader and Keanu Reeves and The Watcher. It's that weird poster where he's third billed but they make his name wide?

Correct. James Spader, Marissa Tomei, Keanu Reeves. The Watcher, which in my memory is not very good. No, and had like

three very low number one weekends. Yes. Because there was just so little competition. Yeah, two. It was number one for two weeks. It was number just so little competition. Yeah, two. It was number one for two weeks. It was number one the next week at $5 million.

I just remember it being comically low number one. Number two, the box office is a dark comedy from, at the time, quite a hot name in the dark comedy film world, a playwright. He still is working, but, you know,

his career has gone in an interesting direction. Is it Nurse Betty? Yes. It could only be Neil LaButte or David Mamet, and obviously David Mamet at this point was a huge deal. Neil LaButte is still kind of early-ish. Weird directions.

Did you see that? It was circulating down on Twitter the other day. The supercut of Val Kilmer's commentary for David Mamet's Spartan where it's just him shit-talking Mamet. Of course I watch every fucking second of it. Incredible.

One of the greatest bitches of all time, Val Kilmer. I say that with admiration. He's just a weird man with those fucking glasses. Are you kidding me? He's so mean about his personal appearance. It's true. Number three in the box office, a hit teen comedy.

She's All That? No, that's 99. Hit teen comedy, 2000. It's not 10 Things I Hate About You. That's 99 as well. What distributor? It's from Universal. Universal. It's a

hit. It lingers. It lingers like the cranberries. Lingers. Tell me about the star situation on this picture. The big teen star has had a long career, was nominated for her first Oscar a couple years ago. Is it a kiki?

Yep. Is it Bring It On? Bring It On. Great film. Yes. Number four at the box office is a serial killer horror thriller from a definite blank check director. And we'll do this one day.

We will do this movie someday. We'll probably do this director one day. It's like an easy four. It's five, I think. It's an easy five. But they're definitely a blank checker. This was his first film. This was his first film.

But like an underrated, like people, some people are obsessed with this guy. And a lot of people sort of forget he exists. Interesting. We've done, we've talked about all these movies why has he made why has he made so few films i don't know ask him he just he works in famous commercials and music video director okay okay uh it's tarsum's the cell tarsum sings the cell uh which rocks in my opinion totally it's kind of like a smooth brain movie, but it totally rocks and it looks amazing.

Isn't that the one where famously Ebert gave it a great review and everyone else trashed it and he was just like, was I watching a different movie than everyone else? And then he found out he was. Oh, really? They screened him the director's cut. That has definitely happened, but I can't remember if it's The Cell. My memory is it was

that one, but I might be completely wrong. I don't think it's The Cell. My memory is it was that one but I might be completely wrong. I don't think it's the cell. It's something else because I know what you're talking about but I don't think I can't remember. Someone tweeted us. Okay. Number five. Space comedy. A space comedy. It's not Pluto Nash. It is the year 2000.

It's August, September? Yeah, from a huge auteur. Yeah, it came out probably like early August. Huge auteur, space comedy. Sorry, I'm playing with a toy car on my desk. It's making noise. I got a little Christine. Different carpenters, Christine. Huge space comedy, auteur director.

Give me the distributor. Oh, Warner Brothers. It's a Warner Brothers picture. He is one of Warner Brothers most stable Oh it's Space Cowboys Space Cowboys I should just Space Comedy Think as literally as possible

Pretty much is what it is They're in space and it's a comedy Those Space Cowboys People said old people couldn't go to space They did They proved them wrong And only one of them died Died a hero.

Died a hero. Yeah. That's the box office. Next week we discuss Sympathy for Misdemeanors. We do. With David Ehrlich, our friend David Ehrlich of IndieWire and Fighting the War Room returning to the show. But we have all kinds

of exciting guests coming. We do. Look, we've as we said, done all but the last two episodes of this mini-series and I think it's a good one. Yeah. Does David resent the amount we have to talk about child murder? Yep.

Yep. Yep. Got really, really upset and angry yesterday. Doesn't like it, but I think... Not joking. The episodes are good.

He got very angry. Very angry. Not at anyone, just in my house alone. Angry at fictional child murder. Well, yes. I think of nothing but contempt for those characters. Yes. yes. I think of nothing but contempt

for those characters. Yes, yes. But it's okay because I don't have to watch that movie again because I just watched it. David, you know how you were saying you don't run

the internet friend database so you don't have an ability to track when friendship started and how they started and all of that? I purchased something recently because we got our display, our sort of like blank check menagerie

here in our office of a combination of movie merch and sort of like items that demarcate the history of our show and its existence, right? And we have a couple of like the coins that we've made, the Comedy Points coins

and the Chip Smith coins. And as I've been like arranging the tableau, I'm always like, how do you display? So many toys up there. There are a lot of toys up there. How do you display the coins? Because they don't sit upright. So I went to Amazon.

I got these little plastic coin stands, right? Oh, fun. So you can have them standing up vertically. But also, I've been moving apartments and going through a lot of my old stuff and weaning through it. And you know what I found, David? That now fits perfectly into these coin stands I purchased.

What? Something that would belong on the Internet Friend database. Now, just for the listeners at home, David is at the edge of his seat. I am literally at the opposite of the edge of my seat. Okay. That is a Videology drink token. A wooden Videology drink token

that we would get when we won trivia. This is basically the physical token of our friendship being formed. I have to document this. Go ahead and document it. It's a little sweet. I think I have one of those rattling around somewhere too. I remember seeing one. I had preserved one at some point when I realized they were closing

and I didn't... I had my stockpile. Get a couple bucks for a tip. Get a drink. That's now, it's going to go prominently on display next to the beta joke envelope. Ben's Porches 40.

Lego Piacon. Carefully assembled by Marie Barty. King Ralph VHS. And are you going to set up the Lego set that we were sent? That's a big project. I feel like we're waiting for like the right

surface for it. Yeah, there could be an episode. This is a humbug. Oh my god, wait. You're right. Maybe. That would be fun. It's a real, this is a real humbug. I don't know. I mean like yes or yes, maybe. It needs a visual element. Or something else. It can't just us being going like, hey, can you, I need like yes or yes maybe It needs a visual element Or something else It can't just us being going like

Hey can you I need like kind of a long yellow guy Say what it is though Chris Mackay Director of the Lego Batman movie Is that how you say his name? I believe I think I'm not getting that wrong Sure I believe you It's spelled Mackay I believe it's pronounced Mackay

And if I'm wrong I'm sorry Chris Wrong doesn't matter. We did the Lego Batman movie on Patreon. Yeah. And then much to our surprise, a month or two later, he sent us an incredibly nice note and the two biggest Lego sets. They are big. We have the Batcave

and then we have the Joker's version of Wayne Manor. But we haven't built them yet because we need proper space to place them. Yeah. They will go somewhere. I promise.

Yeah, we'll figure it out. Behind an unused drink token. All right, take us out, Griff. Thank you all for listening. It's going to be a fun miniseries. We can say this because we've recorded most of them.

Mm-hmm. And we got great guests coming up. Yeah. Some first-timers, some returning favorites, some overdue. There's smiles. There'sue. There's smiles.

There's laughs. There are tears. There's David saying... We're not really wrapping it up right now. David pounding his fist on the desk and saying, don't make me watch Child Murderer again. Thank you all for listening.

Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media, helping to produce the show and also building Lego Piicon and placing him on top of the mantle. There he is. Thank you to JJ Birch for our social media, helping to produce the show and also building Lego Pi-Con and placing him on top of the mantle. There he is.

Thank you to J.J. Birch for our research, Aja McKee and Alex Barron for our editing, Leigh Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song, Pat Reynolds

and Joe Bowen for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon Blank Check Special Features

where we do commentaries on film series. We are crossing the oceans now. And Lil Drama Girl's coming up there. Should we say what we're doing July 11th? Is this a good place to say it? No.

Because we've recorded the other episodes that will come out after this where we would reveal it. Already. Fine, go ahead and say it after this where we would reveal it. Already. Fine, go ahead and say it. I'm going to say it. We're doing something really nerdy on Patreon that I think people will like for July 11th. Right. We're doing an episode called Spreadmasters Delight in which David, who infamously has a spreadsheet.

Right. That includes what he would nominate in every single Oscar category for every year. every single Oscar category for every year. We have, uh, we're going to randomly generate a year in a category and David will reveal who his nominees would be in that category. And I will offer on the spot, me trying to come up with who my picks would have been instead.

Right, right, right, right, right, right. I hope you dirty fucking nerd pigs like it. Spreadmasters delight.

Some real nerdy shit. Tune in next week. Perchance there may be a spread of the edible sort. Ben asked us if we had nut allergies. I don't. And also what our bread preference is. So who knows what kind of bit he has planned there. Impossible

to predict. Who knows. Tune in next week for Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. And as always, get ready for a loud child murder. No, no, no. We have to think. We do.

It's happening. It's a lot. David. Knock my lamp down. Dang.