Blank Check with Griffin & David - Joker: Hallie À Goodrich

Episode Date: October 20, 2024

What if they made a sequel to the Joker movie that was pretty much the finale of Seinfeld but it’s also a half-assed jukebox musical, and EVERYONE hated it? What if Michael Keaton had a 35-year-old pregnant daughter, but he also had precocious 9-year-old twins and a Los Angeles art gallery on the verge of financial collapse? Both scenarios lay the groundwork for two of the most “they don’t make ‘em like this” films of the year, and BOTH conclude with the same Daniel Johnston song. You can’t make this stuff up, folks! Join the crew for a fever dream of an episode that features an all-timer of a Madame Web tangent, Griffin’s grand theory of Todd Phillips self-sabotage, and some earnest reflections on the past 499 episodes that have led us to this monumental achievement. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack For once in my pod, I have some cast who needs me. Some cast I've needed so long. Am I singing too well? I was just about to comment on how you were singing just like Joaquin. For once I'm afraid I can go where pod leads me. Has he sung? Walk the Line. Walk the Line.

That's right. Oscar nominated. But that was imitative, right? That was him doing an imitation and he had so much bravado that even though it wasn't an amazing imitation and his voice wasn't amazing, it was just kind of like, wow, look at him just throwing himself at this.

Let's get right into it. He also becomes a rapper. In joke, in this movie. He sure does. Well, no, in the movie. I'm not there. I'm still here. I'm still here. I always get the two fucking titles flipped.

But is that the only time he's sung? And in the song, I'm Still Here, he does sing his own hook. And he sings it in a way, theular track from of course the acclaimed film that resulted in many lawsuits, I'm Still Here. The way he sings the hook in that is very similar to the way he sings in Joker. I think Walk the Line is a combination of many months if not longer of coaching, going for a very specific imitative voice. I think he is the guy where obviously Joaquin is somewhat obsessive if he focuses in on a specific imitative voice. I think he is the guy where, obviously, Joaquin is somewhat obsessive,

if he focuses in on a specific task and wants to do it, and I think there was a fair amount of mixing. If you listen to cash tracks side by side to his tracks, and I think he did those songs well, they changed the pitch entirely. He, like, figured out how to make it work for him. Look, I haven't seen Walk the Line in many years. I remember thinking that, again, I was more just like,

he's making an effort and I appreciate that, but he doesn't sound like Johnny Cash, my favorite singer of all time, who has like the most incredible voice that nobody could do. But he pulled off something evocative enough. He had attitude. And the attitude and it worked. It worked.

It worked. Fine. Doesn't work in this one. Well... But I didn't leave this movie being like, and it worked. It worked. It worked. Fine. Doesn't work in this one. Well. But I didn't leave this movie being like, Joaquin's singing voice, what a bummer. Like that would be like not in my top 50 complaints. That was the least of my problems. Let's do a quick speed round.

What's your least favorite thing about this movie? What's my least favorite thing about that? I can't speed read, that is so hard. David, what's your rose and what's your thorn? When it comes to Joker and Colin Blood and thorn yeah, all right my least favorite thing about this movie is how it Wastes Lady Gaga. It was Lady. I think that probably has to be number that is the biggest sin You can possibly commit you get this lady for one movie every 18 months, two years,

right? She has made three movies in total, am I wrong? She's also in like Machete Kills or something, but we don't count that. Okay, if we're not counting the two Robert Rodriguez movies, this is her third movie. What's the second one? Gucci!

No, no, no, she's briefly in Sin City 2. Thank you. But yes, no, she's made three movies since 2018. So six years, she's made three movies. So you get her every two years. And this is what we did with her? You put her in a musical. Do they let her let loose, really?

No, they do not. No, do they let her shake the cup of ice directly on mic, as it were? Is that a good way to describe it? Wow. Let loose, go full Joker mode. I'm drinking. David got McDonald's before we started our report today.

Ben, do you have a least favorite? Is yours the same answer? I would say I don't really like the jail stuff. Right, well that's very minimal in the count. That's gonna be tough to overcome. I had issues with what I said, the jail stuff and the courtroom stuff. I definitely didn't like either of those elements.

Yeah, those two elements... Yeah, those were bad. ...not a fan. I was not into the part where it's a Joker movie. I didn't like the part... Some of the other stuff... I didn't like any live action sequence in this movie. I thought the cartoon was okay. Okay, can we all agree the cartoon kind of rules?

Okay, no. I got so freaking mad when they started playing the cartoon Why because all I could think about was this whole movie the same studio. Yeah that put well what? Wiley Coyote versus ACME or whatever that fucking movie is called in the garbage that it has the gall to gall to open with a Looney Tunes homage. With a Looney Tunes homage. Look, and look, talk about things full circle, full connective tissue between the two seemingly disparate movies we're talking about. There were two Looney Tunes movies

that Warner Brothers deemed unreleasable. Coyote versus Acme remains in weird limbo. Right. The other one I think is called The Day the Earth Stood, it's not called The Day the Earth St stood stupid, but it's a porky pig Daffy duck feature-length 2d animated sci-fi comedy the day you're so stupid is a future on my episode. Thank you stuff. I Okay title that film. Mm-hmm. Can you look up what this thing is actually trying to find it? Is the day the earth blew up? Thank you.. Is set for release by a little upstart distributor

called Ketchup Entertainment. Oh, boy! That's me squirting a ketchup bottle. They should do that as their logo. Brings us to the second movie that we're covering in this episode. First, let's introduce the podcast. Okay. What is this? Who are we? Where are we?

Who are you? What's the podcast? Blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. Damn, I'm unfortunately David. I'm Ben. And I'm Ben and I'm the Joker Aka Murray Barty. I'm Murray Barty producer Ben Ben do sir Purdue or the yada yada yada This is usually a podcast about filmography It still is podcast about filmography is directors who have mastered success early on in their career and given a series of blank checks Make whatever crazy passion products they want

Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. And this is what I don't know. Episode four hundred ninety nine, five hundred and one. No. Wait a second. Check. I'm seeing here it's five hundred. The episode everyone has asked us not to do is, in fact, commemorating a massive milestone. Man, if if we had just not done this,

episode 500 would have been Lost Highway, which is next week with David Lowery, which in my memory was a really fun, good episode, right? Well, it's great. I'm sure it's great. Four years ago. Right, and it said this is gonna be us just bashing our head against the wall.

At one point it was gonna be Fire Walk with Me, which I think also was, in terms of a substance, a great episode, was a bit of a complicated. It turned out good. It all turned out good. But there, was a bit of a complicated... It turned out good. It all turned out good. But there was a little bit of a crisis, there was rejiggering, response to the Joker, the release of good, all this stuff.

We were like, let's just fucking pull everything together for a Wonka Man style, new release, check-in, grab bag episode. This isn't gonna be some big fucking back patty, milestone 500 look back episode. But it also felt like we wanted to record something that felt a little outside of the mini series. What? That's all nonsense.

It just happened this way by mistake. That's not true. There was some fucking... There was intentionality. There was intentionality when we realized this could be the 500th episode versus an episode where we were like shouting into a laptop To our poor friend in New Orleans who was not being recorded There was a part of me that was essentially what that was correct was first Joker episode 250 and I checked and it was close

Wow, what was it? It's like 240 something. Okay. Did you introduce the bug? Yes. Yeah blank checker if you're David Yes, here we are now. We usually do mini series on directors who fit the model of what we talk about But early on in our show we were kind of half committed to covering the TC universe Sort of by mistake jumping on and off the pot to be stopped. Yes and When we did Nancy Myers who was our first March Madness winner, six years ago, uh, we ended that series with Home Again as a bonus episode.

I think we used to do in the pre-Patreon days. Right, a film directed by her daughter, Hallie Meyers Chyre, uh, that, uh, that she was involved with. Like, she was on set. Her and Charles Chyre are very, both very involved. Right. Uh, and it... Oh, God, episode 250 was The Rise of Skywalker. Ugh.

Another joke of a movie. But Joker's like 241? 239. Okay, close. But the fucking Rise of Skywalker, Jesus. But it is wild that, yeah, Joker five years ago, it's almost the exact halfway point of the show. Wow.

That we're now revisiting. I'm trying to- Episode 500. I'm trying to find show. Wow. That we're now revisiting. I'm trying to. Episode 500. I'm trying to find this. Yeah. We didn't wanna do a Joker 2 episode. I'm just saying, I'm bringing this out here early and this is blank check and we're doing a Joker episode.

I need to own this because I felt like this was my fault. This is not true, this is my fault. It's Griffin Newman's fault. I'm wearing this. Like flavor, flavor wears a clock. That's a callback to Aloha movie we also have covered in the history of this podcast. This could be quoting a lot of blank check history.

Oh, this is fun. Okay. Okay. So I have not seen Joker one. Still to this day. Wow. Still to this day. I tried to watch it when it came out

and I made it maybe 30 minutes in before I turned it off because I just was like, why am I wasting my time? Granted, it was during the height of the pandemic where I tried to watch it, so it's not like I had many other things to do. But I was also doing a Rock of Love rewatch on Tubi, which kind of felt like, I don't know, a better use of my energy so Yeah, I I was absolutely not interested in this exercise but until Lady Gaga was announced as

Harlequin and oh my god, they're making a musical and then I was like you guys this is amazing We have to do we have to do so. Let's be very clear. This is my fault David wanted to do Aquaman you had the genius We made it do with the devil you Aquaman I was like fucking we're done with the DC thing We haven't been covering them for years and you were like, but we love James Wan and I was like leave the possibility of James Wan series later. Marie says, let's combine Aquaman and Wonka. Wonka-Man, it's fucking catchy.

It was a hit. It was a hit episode. It was a big fat, tiddied hit. Thank you. I can't say it, you can. Thank you. But it was, and it is an episode that people have come back and said to me, like, that episode's just fun.

Much like our first Aquaman episode. End of year. Which is what I thought was gonna happen and also because we record so far in advance and we have been recording even further in advance than usual because of you being a twin dad tying back to good rich which we'll talk about in a second that we were like is there an opportunity to combine two things here well first I'm like David if we're doing Aquaman episode you have to agree to do Joker episode Yes, this became your price and I want to be clear. I said no you said no I said that's too high a price and I won't pay it. So this is my fault

Marie did endorse it. I think the Marie endorsement did help win I also did kind of endorse it too. Well take take some credit. My take was- I thought it was gonna be a cultural moment. It is! Everyone thought it was going to be cool. Well, okay. Gaga's in it. Gaga's in it! It's definitely not cool,

but I want to defend myself by saying it is undeniably a cultural moment. It is also a major moment for the purpose of this podcast. Thank you. This is almost one year ago. I finally found it. I had to search deep in my text message history. We played the show very far in advance.

I had a phase where I was playing a lot of the video game Bellatro, where jokers are very important to your strategy. Really? Also, it was like hard to find. Yes, so it's a lot of like me and my friends being like, so what was your joker line up for that hand? Jokers like the card? Yeah, Bellatro, it's like a card, you'd my friends being like, so what was your Joker lineup for that hand? Joker's like the card? Yeah, Bellatron, it's like a card.

You'd probably like it. Anyway, it doesn't matter. There's lots of Jokers in it, and you can use different Jokers to get different bonuses and stuff like that. Like Caesar Romero? Yeah, like there's definitely, sure, yes. All right, so I'm gonna find... I'm gonna find... Because last year we also had this problem of like,

we didn't really know what to do for the sort of Christmas episode Oh, cuz we had a mini series that was because there was like a spot on the schedule There was a question of like do we go dark for two weeks the point this has been one year Griffin Yeah, this isn't yes October 23rd 2023 I'm going to say it. This is Griffin I'm quoting if this settles the, if we're gonna do Aquaman 2, I do think we should also do Follyadoo next year.

I say, so you don't want Aquaman to be our goodbye to DC? And you say, I think Joker is his own thing now, I have no interest in waiting into future DC, Follyadoo is just gonna be insane. Aquaman we should do to say goodbye to DC, cause James Gunn's taking over and this is the end of an era. Right, this is the end of this silly DCEU.

I mean, and it truly was, where Aquaman 2 came out and Jason Momoa was just doing interviews where he was like, I hope I get cast in the new DC universe as something. I look forward to playing Lobo's fingers crossed. Like, they'd say, hey, you gonna do a sequel to Aquaman? And they're like, uh, yeah, sure. Let me know if this suddenly jump starts that. So basically, do press for your billion dollar

blockbuster sequel wearing a barrel with straps on it and a sign that says looking for war. I've reshot this movie eight times. I don't remember who plays Batman in it. Like I don't fucking know. Wait, no one plays Batman in it? Oh, they just got rid of that? Fine.

And so this is my bargain, I'm quoting you again. This is my bargaining. I will agree to Aquaman 2 if we put Folly Ado on the schedule. Marie says, let's let David have his Aquaman special. We don't even know if the Gaga Joker is actually a musical. So this is how long ago it is. Wow. And I said, first I said like,

if we don't do Aquaman, what do we do? Because I'm like, I'm already shaking. Sure. And I say, my biggest fear with Joker is that if we hated the last movie so much that we banned mention of the word Joker on our podcast. Which is true. Yeah.

To which I said, time to un-retire it. Joker's back in the vernacular. So we argued about this, but we did eventually give in and, because I wanted to do Aquaman, and we all, and even I, were a little bit like, I don't know, Lady Gaga? Phillips obviously certainly a blank check. The first teaser that they put out.

That came way later, but the first teaser certainly looked kind of... It looked kind of interesting. Yeah, splashy. Now, my contention this whole time has been, I think there's a chance it's cool. Even for us, a group of known Joker One haters. I'm not a fan of Todd Phillips' film Joker, which made $1 billion at the box office,

won the Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival, and was nominated for Best Picture, and Joaquin Phoenix won an Academy Award for Best Actor in a storied career, a career I sometimes ding, but Joaquin Phoenix has given a lot of good screen performances, and his Oscar is for Joker. But let's, I appreciate you outlining all of that

very quickly because I feel like this movie is undeniably a cultural moment. It is being treated like a grotesque crime scene. How did this happen? Right? And it's all the things you just listed. Right, it drives me crazy that people are like, how did they give him all this money to make this?

I'm like, look at what Joker won. That is, it made a billion won. It made a billion dollars. It was an all rated movie about a mentally ill guy who kills someone live on television. That's basically a remake of two different Scorsese movies, but worse. Sure mashed together. And it made a billion dollars.

The only movie I can compare to the rap sheet you just listed is Oppenheimer, right? Where you're like, here's like a movie that does not seem like an obvious commercial play that made a billion dollars in theater, won Oscars. Oppenheimer didn't do the festival circuit, which is this whole other added level of like, we need to repeat, Joker won the Gold Lion handed by Lucretia Martel. From acclaimed Argentinian filmmaker Lucretia Martel, chair of the jury that year, handed it to Joker in,

I'll never forget, I was sitting at the Scotiabank theater waiting to see Pain and Glory, a wonderful 2019 film that does deal with mental illness among other things. And I looked at my phone and I said out loud, someone was just walking by me who I didn't know and I was like, Joker won the Golden Lion. And they went, what? I mean, that is like a near unprecedented level of cache,

especially for something that could then very quickly be turned into quote, a franchise movie. I remember when you said they're doing Joker 2, I can't remember if it happened on mic, I definitely remember it happening in a studio maybe right before or after a recording. And I said, how could they do that? How did they possibly make a sequel to that movie?

And your answer was, it made a billion dollars. It's like you just have to. You have to. Right. Part of this movie being a cultural moment is I think this might actually semi-permanently change a certain vein of Hollywood thinking of maybe a movie making a billion dollars isn't an automatic, we have to make a sequel.

And not just we have to make a sequel, but we have to make a sequel at any price. Correct. With no sort of like feathering. Now I hate the industry hand wringing over like, fettering. Now, I hate the industry hand-wringing over like, budgets. Yep. And profits and losses and all the shit that's happening right now, the tisking of like, Warner Brothers, these fools giving him,

the movie was a huge hit. It was beyond that. It was a cultural sensation. You're going, you should make a sequel. Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with that business decision. No. Now, do you maybe think there's anything wrong with that business decision. No. Now, do you maybe want to just like check the script, kind of just bat around a few ideas?

I think it's beyond that. I think it's like, you want to make a sequel if they can come up with something good, right? Whereas I think- Well, that's always true. Their attitude was like, we don't care guys. Do whatever the fuck you want. There was kind of an Alien 3. We can put anything in theaters that's called Joker 2,

and it will make... I mean, it's literally... It's that ver... It's literally walking Phoenix... Phoenix pissing on a wall for two hours and 20 minutes. Because I think their assumption was, worst case scenario, if this movie has a major drop-off from the first film, it makes 500 million worldwide.

But also on paper I think this works well. I agree. I agree. Okay it's like we're going to do Chicago the courtroom musical with Joker. New York New York. Musical with Liz Gaga. This is where you lost it. No no no no. Wait you wouldn't you don't think that sounds good? No it doesn't. New York, New York. With a musical with Lady Gaga. This is where you've lost me. No, no, no, no, no. Wait, you wouldn't, you don't think that sounds good? No, it doesn't. Here's, that's because that's, and that's, that's was, that is, God, I'm so angry. Okay, so if you tell me.

I just wanna get ahead and say this episode's also about Goodrich, but go on. We're gonna talk about Hallie Meyer Shire's movie, Goodrich 2, but we'll do that in the back half. A movie we greatly preferred. Oh yeah, we love, we love Goodrich. Much better film, certainly. But we'll do that in the back half because-

This episode is called Joker, Hallie, a Goodrich, or Joker-rich, podcaster duh. So if you tell me we're gonna do Joker 2, we've cast Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn and it's gonna be a musical. I'm like, that sounds great. If you then tell me, and so I'm Zaslav or whoever. Oh, hey, by the way, dude, fuck you.

What are you talking about? I look like I just hunted an elephant. Eat my piss, asshole. So I'm Zasla, so right, right now I'm cutting through the film strips of like Batgirl and I'm just like, what is it? Yeah. And Todd Phillips is like, okay, here we go, buddy.

Remember Joker? Don't imagine him personally. Just like, fuck this movie. He's running a nail gun through the hard drive. Hey, it's me, Todd Phillips. Hey Todd, how you doing? Remember my movie, Joker Made a Million Dollars? Yes, okay, well Joaquin wants to come back

and Lady Gaga wants to play Harley Quinn and it'll be a sequel. That sounds great, it's gonna be a musical. It's gonna be a musical? Well, Lady Gaga, okay. It's gonna be a musical, like a jukebox musical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't worry. It'll be fun.

Okay, what's it about? It's gonna be like a courtroom drama where we just sort of go over the events of Joker 1. Oh, does anything else happen? Nope, that's our whole plan. It's literally re-litigating the plot of Joker 1 slowly. And making you feel like an asshole for any opinion you had on the first movie.

Leaving that aside. It is a movie that is equally to contemptuous of any possible reading on the first movie. Leaving attitude aside, I literally just mean what's the story pitch? He's on trial for Joker 1. Then what happens? Oh no, nothing.

That's it. That's it. That's all that happens. He just goes on trial for shooting Robert De Niro. You know what's incredibly telling to me? By the way, a crime of which he is unambiguously guilty because it happened on television. So it's just a litigation of, is he crazy or is he sane?

Can I ask a question? You can ask anything. There is society crazy. Yeah. Isn't the whole thing about Joker and Batman villains that they do bad stuff and they get away with it? BLAIR LAUGHS I mean, Joker doesn't get away.

People don't like that he does that. But he... But all I'm saying is, like, it's like... Why does he need to be punished? Why does he need to go through, like, the Gotham justices? I won't dig into this, but because Todd Phillips' main driving force in making this movie is to say, this guy isn't the Joker, none of this matters, fuck you. He is not the Joker of comic book legend.

He is merely a man. Then why do we care? Who maybe inspires. That is why this movie is inspiring a level of ire that I truly cannot recall the last time. Because even like Megalopolis comes out two weeks before this and people are like, I'm flummoxed. We've covered movies that are hated before.

Sure. No, but no, this is... I mean, obviously the best analogy is the Seinfeld finale, which lots and lots of people have made that comparison. But the Seinfeld finale, you know what? The Seinfeld finale, which I don't really like, like I assume there's contrary and kind of takes on it now, but I'm still not a fan because it's boring. Well, I think you and I-

Like my whole beef with it is like, again, it's like, this is just a clip show. Like this is dull. You and I agree with that. I like the meat of the Seinfeld finale. I don't mind the sort of thrust of it, but I- The clip show aspect of it sucks. It's just a boring thing to watch.

Yeah. And I do think, at least in Seinfeld, Larry David is like, look, I just want you to understand these people are kind of a nightmare. And like, yes, most viewers were like, we knew that Larry, but whatever. I think that Mingover Part III does as well.

Go on. What? I don't think that's what this movie is doing. I think this movie doesn't really have anything to say. I agree. I was texting with a friend of ours trying not to blow my takes on Mike, or pre-Mike, and I said,

this movie is the equivalent of like a teenage boy arguing with his parents and slamming his head against the wall as if that settles the argument. I agree with you. And it's like, no, that was just a dramatic thing to do, and in the process, you gave yourself a headache. Like, the movie's basically like, you don't get it, Joker is mentally ill. I got that.

We got it. I watched the first movie. We talked about it in our episode on the first movie that I was like, the thing a lot of people were saying, like, so this guy we're supposed to extrapolate goes on to become the Joker, is able to become like the Cl a lot of people were saying like, so this guy we're supposed to extrapolate goes on to become the Joker is able to become like the clown prince of crime. And you cited an interview Todd Phillips had done where he said something to the effect of my my head cannon is almost like this is not really the Joker. But perhaps there is a child watching the TV who

sees the Robert De Niro shooting. and that inspires him to become the Joker. He's like the Urtext. Which I, at the time, said, then what's the fucking point of this movie? He has made an entire second film just underlining that point. Wait, that's crazy. I didn't know that he talked about that before. He said it. Oh, he talked about it plenty. That's what's wild about this.

So when the ending happened, I was like, okay, so he really just wants to underline, you guys read my movie wrong. But like, how did we read his movie wrong? That's my question with this movie. I'm like, what do you think we didn't get the first time? Right. But like, he's equally contemptuous of Catherine Keener and the Joker acolytes and the prison guards and everybody. Like the people who love him, the people who try to empathize with him,

the people who idolize him, the people who hate him. Like, the movie is just constantly like, everyone's read on this guy is wrong. This guy's just kind of meaningless. He doesn't fucking matter. The courtroom thing, you saying how, like, if he goes in and pitches that and you're Zaslav and you put the sisters down for a second and hear that,

you go, let's pivot. And let's not forget that it's like, and I budget 200 million dollars and Zazlav is like for what but anyway. Kathryn Keener is the third lead of this movie. She is fourth build behind Gleason is third build but I would call Keener I would say she has a little more of an arc. Right. Yep. She is not in any of the marketing. No. I was astonished to hear that she was in it let alone in this big of a part. Which made me realize, oh yeah, they basically have kept the courtroom shit

entirely out of the marketing for this movie. Right, they basically just made the marketing, the, you know, Joker and Gaga dancing around. Yeah. Can I ask a... Sorry. I realize I'm always like, can I ask a question? You can just ask a question. I know.

This is like a tick. This is a tick I need to work on. Women have to just be loud and, you know. I know nothing about, I know sick hand ticks. I couldn't relate to this. We talk a lot about movie popcorn buckets. Did you know? David and I both.

This rollout for a fucking popcorn bucket question. No, Marie, I'm glad you asked for permission. Thank you. So, question'm, Marie, I'm glad you asked for permission. Thank you. So, question number one is, is there a rule where we're not allowed to make popcorn buckets for R-rated movies? No, there's a terrifier three bucket.

There's a terrifier three bucket? Yeah, you can eat out of Art the Clown's head with a Santa Claus hat on top of it. So, but were there no Joker two buckets? Correct. That should have been the first sign that something was wrong. Well, I'll...

This is a dangerous question you asked, Marie. I'm gonna say this very quickly. There was no merchandising for the first Joker. Not even, like, high-end adult collectible shit, which people assumed they would do. And it was apparently a Todd Phillips decree in terms of the framing of this is a serious movie and not a franchise movie. adult collectible shit, which people assumed they would do. And it was apparently a Todd Phillips decree in terms of the framing of this is a serious movie

and not a franchise movie. Because all of this stuff would be... Sorry, I'm making the jerk off motion right now next to the microphone. And then, like, a couple years later, they allowed, like, $10,000 statues and busses and things that are, like, absurd, but there's been this real, like... Even beyond, like, the fucking Matt Reeves Batman, which is not child-friendly and was merchandised to death in every corner. Yeah. It does feel like he has exerted some control of, like, popcorn buckets frames this as a

thing. I would not be surprised if he kaboshed it personally. Well, I think that's stupid because in the year of our Lord 2024, if a Denis Villeneuve movie has a popcorn bucket. Well, this speaks to the weird- Your fucking Joker movie can have a popcorn bucket. Todd Phillips. Nobody can, but this is the thing.

Exactly. This is Todd Phillips's, but this is what makes me so mad. There's an insecurity to him. Denis Villeneuve has the confidence to be like, if they make a fucking popcorn bucket that looks like a flashlight, that doesn't take anything away from my movie.

And Todd Phillips is like, if there are like $300 Japanese dolls of Joaquin Phoenix that take something away from my movie, which speaks to his insecurity about, I'm a comedy filmmaker making a prestige movie of a comic book character, and I need everyone to know that this is serious. I need everyone to know that this is serious. But to quote the Nick Prickerton tweet from million years ago, do you know the tweet? The most intensely challenging daunting role that any actor can play is that of the clown who fights Batman. Which is like this absurd thing of like,

I'm making a Joker movie. I'm making a movie about the Joker character from comic books who's been in many movies. Oh, that sounds fun. Is it gonna be like pulpy? It's kind of pulpy. Yeah, I'm doing the 70s riff thing. Like, oh, okay, cool. But it can it gonna be like pulpy? It's kind of pulpy. Yeah, I'm doing this 70s riff thing. Like, oh, okay, cool.

But it can't be taken as pulpy. It must be taken as a serious drama. It must be entered in the Venice Film Festival. And what happens? He fucking wins. So for this one, he's like, premiere to Venice again, please. Six weeks ahead of release. Everyone sees it and is like, wow,

we're a pile of shit on a plate. Like, you know, but his pretension has gotten the better of him. is like, wow, we're pile of shit on a plate. Like, you know, but his pretension has gotten the better of him. And like, this is a movie that about Joker and Harley Quinn. Harley Quinn's a cartoon character from the 90s. She's not even some like storied historical, like, you know, Bill Finger created Harley.

No, it's like in the 90s, they're like, there should be a girl Joker. Right, but every- And she talks like this. Yeah. And they're like, Hi Mr, but... And she talks like this! And they're like, this is now another member of the American canon of art. It's fucking Harley Quinn. Her name's Harley Quinn like the word Harlequin. And even like Margot Robbie had to make a statement on some red carpet while like promoting the, you know, on the Barbie Awards campaign.

That was like, look, I always intended Harley Quinn to be a role that could be reinterpreted by multiple actors. I don't feel presented. I can't wait to see Gaga's take on the character. Harley Quinn is already turning into the Nick Pickerton tweet about Joker where it's like- That's it, right. It's like, yeah, this is also like,

this is like America's King Lear and fucking Lady Macbeth is like Joker and fucking Harley Quinn. Right, that it's multiple actresses playing Queen Elizabeth on the crown and it's like this shit You have temporary ownership of this. I'm not here to shit on like Bruce Tim and Paul Dini for me. No Harley Quinn's a successful comic book creation. She's fine and her movie Birds of Prey I like a lot

That's okay I like it. You guys are boys. I am a boy and I'm a boy who has a crush on you in McGregor and on half the fucking women in that movie. Half. Wait, which ones don't you have a crush on? All of them, right? And the egg sandwich.

I just think that movie is kind of narratively a bit of a mess. Egg sandwich, yeah. Oh yeah, you don't like the egg sandwiches. Yeah. Oh, you don't like the egg sandwiches? No. Look.

That's my only hangup with that movie. The weirdest thing is that the closest comp to this movie is Captain Marvel and the Marvels, right? Like, it's so funny to think about Joker, the esteemed prestige project that actually, like, did all this, you know, got all these awards and stuff, making a billion dollars, and then the sequel coming out a little too late,

you know, coming out like five years later, and audiences aren't just disinterested, they're like, no. Right, and it makes like one tenth of what the first movie made. The exact same journey Captain Marvel had to the Marvels except no Oscars, no awards, but Captain Marvel also was this phenomenon

that made a billion dollars and people were like, I guess we kinda gotta give it up. But you step back from the Captain Marvel, Marvel's thing, right? And you're like, that is this weird like, five cultural things all colliding. And multiple moments on both movies for why the first one overperformed

and why the second one underperformed so dramatically. And in both cases, very little have to do with the actual film. The actual product on screen. Right, but. Whereas Joker has to do with these two movies in a weird way. And all these autopsies of like, whose fault is this? Did Mike DeLuca need to like fucking tighten the leash?

Did Todd Phillips need to show self-discipline? And I'm like, this movie got made because everyone rewarded them as much as they possibly could have for the first film. They gave them a blank check. They gave them a fucking blank check. Which is why we're covering it on the show. Um, can I tell you my favorite theory about why this movie is bad?

Because Bradley Cooper and Todd Phillips dissolved their producing partnership. Now, why did they do that? Do we know? I don't know. I mean, Bradley Cooper's a busy man. Does Bradley Cooper not have a credit on this? He does not. They stopped working together in 2021.

Interesting. Uh, and obviously, Todd Phillips, uh, produced A Star is Born, right? Does Bradley Cooper not have a credit on this? He does not. They stopped working together in 2021. Interesting. And obviously Todd Phillips produced Stars Born, right? Like they go both ways. Bradley Cooper produced War Dogs, I think. And he produced Joker. And he produced Joker. That's one of his Oscar nominations.

One of his 15 Oscar nominations. So that tomorrow when he plays like- Todd doesn't get a credit on Maestro? No. No, no, I don't think so. No. At that point they are right. I think Spielberg and Scorsese get credits? No. No, I don't think so. At that point they are right.

Spielberg and Scorsese get credits on Maestro. No, I've heard. And all I'm saying is if, I think if Bradley was in the room, a lot of those musical sequences Well. would have been different. I think a lot of the use of Gaga would have been different. I agree with you, but I also do think fundamentally,

there had to be someone being like, you need a bigger story structure here than just Related Gaming Joker 1. Something has to happen in this movie. And Phillips is like, no, no, no. This is an anti-things happening movie. This is a movie about, like, mushing the audience's face into, like,

you're all depraved for liking Joker, like you say, or disliking Joker, or for just making an icon of this sick man. Right. If you take him seriously, you are, like, a pretentious, condescending, cultural elitist. Right. If you... if you, uh, valorize him, you're a psychopath. Yes. Yeah.

And the fundamental thing you need to understand is he's just a sick man who dies, like, a sad death. Who's unimportant. At the hands of, like, right, a rando, who maybe he becomes the Joker. I don't care. I don't care about the Joker. We all became the Joker. He's not funny. He's not smart. I don't care. I don't care about the Joker. We all became the Joker. He's not funny.

He's not smart. He comes really fast. He can't hold his shit. That was my... Okay, so if we want to talk about... How slow is he supposed to be? If we want to talk about roses and thorns... I mean, the man is not having a lot of sex.

When the sex scene plays out in a two-shot without a cut and I was like, this is going to end in 15 seconds. I love when he goes, can you put it in in and then he just kind of awkwardly thrust and you know what my husband My husband came with me to see this movie because he said he didn't want me going alone. Hey It's like why cuz you're afraid of like Joker fans hurting me. He was worried you were gonna get Joker pill. Yeah. No, he was like no I just think it's like so embarrassing for you to go see this movie alone that I It's not wrong.

You need to be your emotional support human. Sure. Uh, the first thing he said was like, wow, it's crazy that Joaquin, his last two movies were like him awkwardly thrusting in weird sex scenes. Because Napoleon also, and also has him like just humping the stuff and being awkward and weird. And then the more I thought about it, I was like, you know... He doesn't the master, he fucks the sand lady on the beach. This is a thing that he... He builds a sand lady just to fuck her poorly. This is a thing that he does.

Yeah. And I also weirdly think the Joker and Napoleon performances are kinda similar, where he doesn't seem that locked into either of them. I like him and Napoleon a lot. I think he's fun in that. I like Napoleon, but I think that the movie isn't taking itself seriously in a lot of ways.

For sure, that movie's just not taking itself seriously. Which Joker 2 does feel like it's taking itself seriously. Oh, does it? This is another fascinating cultural moment around this movie, right? Is like, starting around Napoleon, there starts to be this unpacking of the history of Joaquin Phoenix trying to quit projects.

Right. And being like, I don't know what I'm doing, I have no take on this, you need to let me quit. He is quietly notorious for, within weeks of a film starting, having a sort of freeze-up moment where he's like, I don't think I want to do it, I don't think I know what I'm gonna do,

I don't, you know, I want out. And having to be kind of talked down. And other directors have had him run, and the movie panics, and they have to cast someone else. What was the one recently that came to light? Samuelson mentioned that he was supposed to be the star of the split. Oh, right, McAvoy.

I think McAvoy was the one talking about it. But that had been reported before. And it makes total sense, because they'd worked together twice before. And of course, Phoenix is the guy you think of for that role. Oh, to play a mentally ill person? Joaquin? Mm-hmm. And I wish he had done Split, because then he probably wouldn't have fucking done Joker.

Probably. He probably would have been like, I already did that. You know what? You're totally right. And then Feige could have gotten him for Doctor Strange, and the MCU could have imploded from within. Well, this is the thing, that he was this white whale then Feige could have gotten in for Doctor Strange and the MCU could have imploded from within. Well this is insane, that he was this white whale for Feige, that he and all these meetings would be like, I don't think our working styles are compatible.

Right. There was some self-awareness from him. Right, where he was like, this is not me like refusing to engage with the Marvel thing, I don't think this is gonna work. Feige wanted him to play Hulk, Bruce Banner in the Ruffalo position for Avengers, wanted him to play Doctor Strange, those are the two big ones where, like, they held off for a while. They rolled out the carpet. They were like, what can we do? Yeah.

Right. And he was just like, I have this awareness. What's come out in some of this, like, post-autopsy on the Joker failure... And his recent abandonment at the Todd Haynes home. Well, I want to say that, but yeah. That he at one point went to his reps and was like, everyone wants me to do a comic movie, what if I could do like a villain movie? Is there a way to do this kind of thing? So that when Phillips had this Joker pitch,

the threads unified. I do agree with you that Split is a better version of what he had an itch to do. And if he had done that, he probably never would have won an Oscar. Sure. Well, he probably would have won an Oscar for one of his better performances. Also, McAvoy's incredible in Split.

That's the thing. The thing about McAvoy in Split is, like, it all worked out. That's a great performance. And beyond the fact, if you're learning, like, McAvoy basically jumped aboard a couple weeks before production, you're like, Jesus, what a heroic job by him. His body just looked like that? I guess so. He lost a little muscle in order to play the role.

But he walks off of this Todd Haynes movie, rude to another Todd. He walks off of this Todd Haynes movie in this sort of like calamitous spiral like he has left this production in a lurch. They cannot replace him. Treated him very badly. One of our great artists. I wish I could do Trump just to do shit like that. He's a chameleon! He wants to try his hand at every genre.

I mean, my Trump is me... one-fourth committing to an impression of James Austin Johnson's impression, who is the only good Trump impression that still exists. But, uh, but yes, there's this huge fallout from this, right? And there is a public, I think a widespread backlash of I'm reading people who are not super engaged with movie culture online being like,

why are they not suing this guy? This is unbelievable. How do they allow him to act this way? Everyone else lost their jobs. Like $10 million lost because of this. And the thing I kept seeing in comment threads was people being like, hey, guess what? Joker's about to make a stupid amount of money. He'll pay off whatever fucking penalty. When Joker's a hit, everyone will forgive him. In Hollywood, they'll just ignore the bad behavior, which

has always been like, hey, Joaquin hits just enough that even when he does his weird periods, his I'm still here, when he comes back with a hit or a triumph, people are like, I guess Joaquin, what are you gonna do? This movie being such an atomic bomb right after the Todd Haynes thing. And now this influx of stories appeal being like, yeah, there were these other times on set

where he was like, I do think everyone's backing off and being like, is it worth working with Joaquin? I think there might be a bit of a Joaquin break for a bit. And I think also... I do think he's gonna step back for a bit. Yes, and I think the fact that Bo is afraid, I think was green-lit at a high budget, that was partly because it was Joaquin coming off of Joker.

And obviously that movie, I think, is really honestly brilliant, but didn't make much money. And then Napoleon also, Joaquin playing Napoleon, that's a selling point for that movie. It's like, we got fucking Joaquin Phoenix to do this. The gladiator reteam. And now it's, yeah, I just think it's gonna be a few years before that happens again.

Yeah, I think he might enter another wilderness period. Yeah. Yeah. Here's another question I have. Don't worry, he won't get far on foot. That's the Joaquin movie people forget, man. People forget that one. I saw that film in a theater. 100 company.

He made a Gus, but he walked off a Todd. That is the last Gus Van Sant film to this day. That is his most recent film. You're forgetting that he directed- He directed the swans Capote thing. FX's feud, colon, Capote versus the swans kapoti thing. FX's feud, colon kapoti versus the swans. David. Yes.

You know what we like? If you had to name one thing that you and I both like. I think we love the movies. We love the movies. What? And what do we love? We love going to see the movies at the theaters. That is very, very true.

It's a very important to us. The theater experience is worth preserving, is the best way to experience a movie. And let's just say it, David, we're thrilled. We're excited, we're overjoyed. This has long been in the works to celebrate the great union of Regal and Blank Check because Regal Cinemas is offering Blankies an incredible deal on unlimited movies.

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This is a movie company that shows movies in theaters. Which we love. Sponsoring our movie podcast. Yeah. And the two of us go to Regal Cinemas. All the time. To see movies. Once again, 4DX.

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I love my birthday. Every time you visit and take a ticket to a movie, Regal Crown Club just tracks those visits and you get the bonus extra credits. You don't have to do anything. It's just doing it for you. I sound a little more excited about it, David. That's incredible. It's really incredible.

What ease of use. Once again, go to the Regal app or you can use the link in the description and use code blank check to get 10% off your three month subscription. And then you can go see movies. I go to the Regal Essex a lot, that's sort of my local Regal. I'm a bubble brag.

Where do you go? I go to Union Square because they got the 4DX. A classic, right, you like the 4DX. Yeah, I love the 4DX, David. Regal. I swear to God, you know, I've been really into baseball this year. It's been like a sort of falling back in love for me thing. Like I started last year when the pitch clock came in,

but this year especially. Now I'm reading these like old Roger Angel books from the sixties and seventies. Who's that? He's like a preeminent sort of poet laureate of baseball. Like wrote lots of books. And you're reading him in the sixties, especially, writing about like television,

essentially coming to baseball, right? Like thats especially, writing about, like, television essentially coming to baseball. Right? Like, that's the dawn of kind of like, ah, the game is sort of changing to accommodate television, and I'm really sad about this and that, right? And you just think about, like, man, those were the days. There were just so few things for us to focus on, right? That you could be upset that baseball was on television because you're like, ah, shouldn't people just have to go to the ballpark? Right? Now it's like Capote versus the Swans

is a fucking television event. Like remember when Capote had a fight with some ladies in Manhattan, like the high society? He was mean to the ladies who used to drink with in the press People killed themselves, okay, I know it was a feud They don't use that title lately. It is oh Here's another question on the Joaquin line that I was I was field testing this morning do we think they put Joker on the bench for a while oh they should yes right like absolutely as James Gunn is

preparing to now like do his new strike on the DC Universe first of all I would bet money that Barry Keoghan as the Joker does not return I would too I think that is that performance was a failure and it's not something that people remember or like about them No, and I imagine Matt Reeves and Barry Keoghan meeting in the middle of a dark alleyway shaking hands and going I think it's best for both of us. We're on the exact same page See he's barely in it. He's not in it really two times Maybe maybe just one once I've seen this movie many times. Yeah, there's one

Comfort watch Starts talking to someone else who's also an art at the end of the it's right at the end of the movie So if you're putting it on for comfort, you might not be making it to hour three. It is Academy Award nominee Barry Keoghan playing... I've totally forgotten about this. Yes, exactly. It's one scene. They filmed another scene that... They cut stuff.

And there was the description of the scene, and people were like, that sounds good. Why did they cut that out? And then they put it online, and you're like, totally get why they cut it out. He's also got really distracting makeup. Right, it's like kind of a more extreme version of the Everything about it. It's like the faces. He's ledger cranked up the voices Heath Ledger cranked up the Enough of a take because no there's no further takes to be it's gnarlier

Yeah, but I'm just saying like it's like there's no new Joker. I go back to my take which is Eight years from now after a long grace period right Give it a full fucking Batman and Robin to Batman Begins. I want like fucking Richard E. Grant, wearing face paint with no scars, slicked back hair, clock comedy. More of a debonair classic Joker. I love that. Thank you.

I love that. Like that's, I want fucking emaciated, fancy, you know? Dandy Joker. I want Dandy Joker. But the only place we have left to go is go all the way back to, he is a theatrical cartoon character. But also, if someone just wants to say to me, like, you know what, there's been like a lot of Joker stuff

and we're kind of just not gonna do Joker pretty much, we're just not gonna talk about it. Thrilled. I'd be like, yeah, sounds good. I do want to say though, that I do think there is room for interesting Joker interpretations still, as evidenced by the People's Joker. Sure.

Well, I think the People's Joker rules. The People's Joker is- I did not watch Joker one to prep for Joker two. I watched People's Joker. Yeah. Well, People's Joker, I already was one of my favorite movies of the year. But it's also about the conversation we're having. What's the pop culture place of this character?

You have not seen it yet, right? Have you seen it, Ben? I have. Yeah. I mean, it's that, but it's also, the thing I was surprised by was I was very interested in seeing it, but I assumed it was going to be more of a like, fuck you movie, that its main reason for existing was to be like, flip off IP. No, it was gonna be more of a like, fuck you movie, that its main reason for existing was to be like flip off IP. No, it was like genuine affection. I think the whole thing that Deirdre is doing in that movie,

which is like kind of remarkable is you're like, oh, this movie has like a perfectly structured emotional story in a way Joker Folly does not, that feels very personal. And as her making the case of like, there are reasons to reinterpret these characters to let storytellers tell very specific personal stories through the prisms, things you maybe can't do

without using the, like, lens of, you know, characters and tropes we know. She finds new fucking things to do with all of, like, the supporting cast of the Batman universe and Is basically this argument for like these things should be like accessible They shouldn't be like gate kept, you know If we're going to contend that like fucking Joker is our like Hamlet and the character that needs to be reinterpreted Then you actually need to open this up rather than turning this into this fucking dick measuring contest of like who can get more twisted? Which is where the dead end we've gotten to is just like how do you make Joker more and more extreme and bleak and realistic?

Right, right and there's right. There's no way to do that anymore And so hopefully there's no more Joker for a while. Thank you Should we talk about Joker if all you do just briefly favorite scenes? I liked when they had sex because it made me laugh. I ordered I saw this movie at Nighthawk Which for folks who don't know it's a theater in Brooklyn like the Alma where you bring food But it was the original Dine-In movie theater in Brooklyn. Yeah Great food and they had a special Joker pie.

It looked delicious. It was really cute. This guy had the red and green. It was a key lime pie with cherry whipped cream. So it was pink whipped cream and then a maraschino cherry on top. So that was good. Okay.

Musical numbers, the set, the costumes, anything guys? Half-assed, half-assed. Half-assed? Half-assed, man. Half-assed? I think he films the musical numbers very sort of plainly and didn't do much for me. The production value of the film is fine. Much like the first Joker, it doesn't look bad. It looks fine.

The costuming and the sets are fine. The location stuff is fine. The first movie has more. I have things to say about this. I just want to quickly but like there was no razzle dazzle You do the thing with the um Like the sunny and Cher show or whatever. Yeah, but there's like not they do more in Saturday night when they show the fucking What's his? Merle variety show

fucking, what's his, Merton Burl? Burl variety show behind the scenes. Do you see his dick in that movie? Nobody talks about it a lot. Well, obviously he would never shut up about it. I just wanna, I just want- Wait, no, do they pull it out? Does he, he does pull it out, but do we-

I haven't seen it yet. You haven't seen it yet? No. Oh my God. Has anyone here besides me seen it? Okay, I forget. They might've pulled a Dirk Diggler with like a footlong prosthesis.

Before we fully move, does he show it to Alan Zoybel in the movie? No, it's to Chevy Chase and Kaia Gerber. He's flirting with Kaia Gerber and Chevy Chase. Sorry, Corey Michael Smith was like, fuck you, old man. He was like, fuck her with my giant cock. I just want to quickly, before we dig into all of this,

say that Murray got the Joker pie, which looks good. Ben also saw it at Nighthawk and said he considered getting the cocktail called That's Life. And what stopped him was, and I'll read the ingredients, see if you can guess which one stopped Ben from ordering it. Silky Irish whiskey? Laird's bottle and Bond? I don't know what that is. Is there a signed check from Babe Ruth coming in? Okay, cool. Peach liqueur? Okay. Lemon? Yeah. Sure. Okay, that sounds like a perfect match. That sounds like a perfect flavors. Oh and also tobacco bitters. Yeah What what are those? I don't know but I will say thematically appropriate

Yeah, he's just ripping six the entire fucking movie 50% of this film's running time is Shots of him smoking a cigarette tilting his head all the way back. Yeah. All he does is tilt back and smoke Yeah, this is like this is is the shit I hate in Joker, which is like, Todd Phillips seeing him dance one time and being like, oh, that's good, we're gonna have you dance 20 times, landing on that shot one time and being like, fuck, we're gonna do this shot 40 times. To do something that I hate to do,

which is praise Todd Phillips' 2019 film Joker. Uh-huh. That film is a little rattling. And it has moments that really got to me. the 2019 film Joker. That film is a little rattling. And it has moments that really got to me. I think we both agree that the Deneuroth sequence is undeniably effective at what it is trying to do. And like the stuff of him like laughing on the bus

and like, you know, working at the weird place with the, you know, where is it that he works? I can't remember where he works. He's like a clown for hire, right? Yeah, like the clown store., right? Yeah, yeah. Like. The clown store. The movie.

The clown factory. That movie is a portrayal of a very damaged, ill person, right? And just sort of descending into this terrible act. And I did not think that it was a particularly like evolved movie or that smart. I agree. But like, it was somewhat visceral to watch and it's, you know, whatever. It's a movie with that smart. I agree. But like, it was somewhat visceral to watch

and it's, you know, whatever. It's a movie with a story. And I think Phoenix is, Ham, I've always said that, he's a hammy actor and he needs to kind of be, have the right guardrails around him. But he's effective in the movie. I prefer you were never really here

in like, if he's gonna do that mode, which I know you agree. But anyway, this performance is so embarrassing. His performance in this movie is so embarrassing. Right? That it makes me think he was bad in the last one. That maybe he's always been bad. Things like him doing the foghorn leghorn voice or the British accent, like, when he's, like,

on trial representing himself. I'm just, like... That is... That's, like like me being asked in five minutes to be like, what would like a crazy person do? Like, who thinks he's a comedian? Like, no thought whatsoever into how this character thinks or behaves. He's better in this movie when he's in fleck mode, I guess.

But I also- He's a little more going on there. Yeah, I mean, look- He's terrible when he's in do he's in I think this movie is bad And I don't like it. I'm going to play dare I say it joker's advocate for certain aspects of this film that I this film now There are certain aspects that I'm coming after you What's his name again? I'm a page's character. I can't remember. Okay

Yeah, he's got the action figure on his desk. There are certain aspects of this film I found compelling. In spurts, there are pieces of things. We already talked about the sex scene. The sex scene is the only good part. We'll talk about spurts. Exactly. I think the cartoon is great. For two minutes!

I'm going to do an accounting here. I don't even think the cartoon is that great. The cartoon is fine. It's fine. We can just find some things that are at least fine. Why? This is that great. The cartoon is fine. It's fine. We can just find some things that are at least... This is the fine. This is the position... I had a decent burger at the Alamo.

Guess how many people were in my screening? Where? Five. Zero? Goose egg. I saw the film at like 12, 15... That actually must have been nice for you because... No, it was not nice!

You've been on daddy duty like you like Yes and I would like to go see movies I wanna go see fucking J.K. Simmons whipping out a fake dick I wanna see Megalopolis I don't wanna see this shit You did send a series of angry texts in one of our other group texts that was like I barely see any movies in two months and now I have to see fucking Joker Folly-a-duh

because of Griffin and I was like I'm hearing this now I have to see fucking Joker Folly a duh because of Griffin and I was like I'm hearing this I have to see it I have to see it like with the runway of like every critic on earth being like an absolute waste of time So you like not just bad but just boring but also like you saw it with zero people in the audience here Like it was me and my waiter like day eight of release, right? It was it was within the second week of release. Yeah, but tip of the second week. Tip of the second week.

I went on Indigenous Peoples' Day. Yes, I went on Indigenous Peoples' Day. And, Your Honor, there were a total of zero other people in the screening room. Right, there you go, there you go. It was like the Horizon screening. If they'd just been like, sorry, the picture's broken Wish I had just shown, if they'd just been like, sorry, the picture's broken, we're just showing Horizon, I would have been like, fantastic, hot dog. I should have gone on Indigenous Peoples' Day

because I have 10 free tickets to the Nighthawk that I have won as prizes from trivia. Look, we're both holding hot hands. And I was like feeling really good about not paying to see Joker 2. And then when I got there, I found out that you can't use them on weekends, and you can't use them on Fridays either. You can only use them, like, Monday to Wednesday.

And you have to wait. It has to be past the first week of release. Right, which I knew Joker... And I knew Joker, I was like, oh, it's second week, that's fine, we can use it. But unfortunately, I ended up paying $34 to go see Joker 2. Okay, so play Joker's app. We need to move on to Goodrich, and we'll circle back to, but I just want to give Marie a little chance,

a little bite at Goodrich, but some other things you like. James Seamus, something of a patron saint of the Blank Chai podcast, a Hulk poster hanging above your shoulder, right? When I first met him and told him how much I love Hulk, he sort of went like, oh, the fascination with the wrong object, which is a term that has stuck with me, right? And I was like, no, I genuinely love it.

And he's like, no, I get it. I have the same thing of like when a movie is so confidently made incorrectly, there's something compelling about trying to make sense of it. And I admittedly have like a big soft spot for that, right? And like Hangover Part III is another movie that I think is bad and doesn't work. I rewatched it for the first time in 10 years last night in prep for this.

I was astounded by the degree with which it doesn't work. It's so much stranger than I remembered, but I've always sort of vouched for it because I do not like the first two Hangover movies. I like a couple of Todd Phillips movies a lot. I obviously stand really hard for due dates. You like due dates. I do think old school is kind of the like frat pack or text.

It's kind of the pinnacle of that for me. I mean, there are plenty of things probably that don't hit well these days. But old school, you're like, yeah, that was, you know. Right, Matt Stinger, our friend's writing a book about that whole era and I'm like, I do think old school is quietly the key text of that entire Comedy movement and I wish we did road trip. Yeah road trip. I like okay, okay

It's cool for sound drills. I like okay star skin. I like okay. It's okay. What is kind of interesting I feel like you're with me. I am with you doesn't totally work No felt like an interesting transitional movie for like this guy's trying to turn into something else. Where he landed, we don't like. But it was the start of him, like, flexing whatever Scorsese muscles. You left... You just glossed over the Gigi Allen film. Completely. Which I do feel like shout out. He starts out in documentaries, he does that.

He does a film called Frat House, which was, like, a big Sundance hit. About, like, hazing and stuff. But no, the Gigi Allen movie is... I think we talked about it on the first show group. We talked about it a lot in the first show group. So it's very, you know, you can see the continuum, right? Of what interests him.

That he loves like the idea of being transgressive, counter-cultural, that he is this very bizarre, like wildly successful, largely very mainstream filmmaker, working with big stars and big budgets who gets off on the idea that he's like fucking sticking it to the man and the institution, spitting everyone's eye, right? Which is hard to do when you're also fucking winning in the movie industry.

So there is this- That's so Gen X of him. Totally. And there was this horseshoe theory thing that I think has happened two times with this in Hangover Part III, where when he has to like Follow up a movie that was that big and hangover 2 he just kind of did hangover one I just did it again again with a bigger budget

Right exactly everyone critiqued him for that and he was very defensive of like it's not the same. It's got different jokes Hangover 3 feels like a similar fuck you you want me to not make hangover 2 again And it is a movie that is basically like, these guys are bad. These are bad people. You didn't get it. This isn't fun. They're actually in pain. The whole movie, the inciting,

they're sober the entire film. There is no Hangover. There is no blackout. It is a movie of them being like, asked to account for the crimes that they've committed that were cute in the first two movies. It basically has the tone and the aesthetics of blood simple. It will go long stretches without anything that's even an attempt of a joke. And the inciting incident of the film is they realize,

oh, Zach Galifianakis' character isn't funny. He is mentally ill. We need to institutionalize him. Wow. And on the way to like, they held an intervention and they're driving him to the desert. They're pulled over by John Goodman with a gun. And he's like, fucking Ken Jeong stole all my money and you have to get it back. And they're like, we don't know Ken Jeong. And he's like, really? Because you guys keep on doing fucking movies with him and getting drunk and doing stupid shit. I'm going to fucking murder Justin Bartha unless you get my money back.

The movie is so angry and bitter and weird and violent and intense, it does not work. No. I didn't know this. I've never seen it. No one knows this. And it came out and it similarly was hated. Yes, and didn't do very well. It also cost a lot of money.

On a scale of didn't do well... It still made its money back. It made $115 million domestic. It made $350 million worldwide. I think that's what they assumed the basement was on a Joker collapse. Like, wow, but come on, how hard could it actually fail? And it was hated, but in a way where since I think most people have been like, hangover two's lazy,

we've moved on from this, didn't get the same attention as this. The hangover fans who went to see it were like, why isn't this funny? And that was sort of the end of the conversation. This is the same thing where like, you've given Todd Phillips everything. Not only is it his biggest financial hit,

but also he won all these awards. He was taken seriously as an otor. He was taken into the embrace of the sort of arty critical community in a way he hadn't been before. He's at the fucking round table with Scorsese. You know, who's like, I watched some of it, I get it. And there's the part of him that's still angry that he feels like he still isn't taken seriously enough, but there's the other part of him that's like,

if I'm playing with house money, and now everyone's saying, we want you to do your outro thing, he then has to make a movie that hates itself. Because, like, there's a quote, you know, he, when the first Joker came out and people were like, why do you make comedies anymore he's like well culture's too woke you can't get away with comedy anymore and everyone's like fucking jerk-off motion right but there's a more telling quote from that press run-up where he's just like look it felt like comedy was changing and studios didn't want to make it and whatever and I was trying to figure out how to transition

and being a different kind of filmmaker but still do something that felt like it would scare the studios. That his whole thing he gets off on is they're a little worried about him going too far. That's his kink as a filmmaker, is being paid $20 million and feeling like he's being 10% too edgy. And in this case, after Joker working against everyone's expectations, the only way he could do that was basically to make a movie that is boring and self-loathing. Right. But boring, I think, is to me the true insult.

Yes. That is the greatest crime of the spell. Why can't Joker just do some shit in this movie? Yes. Why is Joker in jail? He shot Robert De Niro. Let him go! But he's a Joker! Let him escape! I agree.

I want to see some funny outfits! You know what would have been truly funny? If this movie begins with him escaping from Arkham Asylum. And then the rest of the movie is him fighting the Batman. Do you... Like, the movie is just suddenly like, Joker, someone's after you, who is it? It's a Batman!

And then it just becomes a Batman Joker movie like in a really ordinary way. Wait, but isn't Batman like... Yeah, no, I'm saying the movie is just suddenly, I know. He should become obsessed with this 12 year old kid who he like, you know, tries to kill. I don't know. I know you didn't watch it in full.

Do you two remember how the first Joker ends? Doesn't it shoot him in the head? He kills. Do you remember what the very end of the movie is? It's him running through, there's some conversation with a psychiatrist in the asylum then it's him like running through the halls having maybe killed the the person who was Talking to him, but it's kind of ambiguous. Yeah. What are you were looting to know?

I just remember the triumphant image of him standing on top of the abandoned cop That's right before and that's when he puts the blood on his face I forgot that he is institutionalized by the end of the first movie But the movie does end the Joker movie Not 2019 does end with Bruce Wayne's parents being killed during this kind of like riot that I have to they ever show that It's never been seen or even really spoken about how edgy Todd Phillips was He was the first one to say what if they rip her pearl necklace off?

Fuck. And they're shot in alleyway like a dog. Thomas and Martha Wayne, not very- Joe Chill. Not very smart. Joe Chill, not very nice to the Waynes, but the Waynes, you know, should have left Gotham. They're sending over their words.

They're sending their Joe Chills to Gotham. Did you see that Jerry Seinfeld went on Tom Papa's podcast and said, I really regret that stuff I said about the extreme left ruining comedy. And he said something that was really interesting. Okay. That I really liked. Okay.

It was God, so Jerry for at least owning that you were kind of popping off, right? Like, popping off. Popped Harding off, yeah. Exactly. Where he's like, if Lindsey Vonn is sledding down a hill, so skiing down a hill, and they make the gates really far apart,

she'll hit the gates, because that's what she does. It's okay if the gates move around. Good comedians will figure out how to be funny. That's every comedian I respect. That has been their statement the whole fucking time. And people like... At least he owned up to it. ...pushed Bill Burr, and they're like,

you must hate comedy getting PC. And he's like, no, if you're challenged by that, then you're a hack. Exactly. I mean, that was like, you must hate comedy getting PC. And he's like, no, if you're challenged by that, then you're a hack. Then, right, exactly. I mean, that, right, and that was, yeah. If you work hard enough, anything could be funny. So Todd Phillips, take a leaf out of Lindsey Vonn

and Jerry Seinfeld. I agree. Unfrosted, better movie than Joker Folly. I haven't seen it. I think I have it rated higher. I'm still waiting for my letterbox ranking. Wait, what was the point I was about to make? There was a thing.

By the end of Joker, you were talking about, Joker 1 to be clear. Todd Phillips, was the point I was about to make? There was a thing... At the end of Joker you were talking about. Joker 1 to be clear. Todd Phillips, Horseshoe Theory. Jerry Seinfeld. Fuck this movie. I'm gonna get back to some fucking... Idiots who suck. Except nobody likes this movie.

Yes. Lex G liked this movie. Yeah, well. I do think this movie looks really good. I think the movie looks fine. Yes, it has production value. Yes. Again, not that many sets.

No, it's how much of it is just Arkham Asylum. Arkham Asylum courtroom, the Sonny and Cher set, the sort of outdoor set where they do the dancing. I love conceptually cutting to like inner life musical numbers. But it's not consistent. There's not a consistent device. The choices of songs are so basic and lame. Like, all the songs are so dreary.

Like, there's no fun in any of the music. Do fun musical sequences. I think the one musical number that works, in my opinion, is If They Could See Me Now. Beyond just being a song I obviously love, and that we've covered in the past many series. I think that sequence has a little bit of a visual idea of them like running around in the rain after she set the fire and then being a little free.

It works sort of for what it is. His sort of like live on set audio, it's their voices are scratching on purpose, whatever thing. The part where the movie totally fails is when it goes into those inner life sequences and you're like, there's a soundstage and they're made up and they're playing with like TV variety show aesthetics and whatever, and then the numbers are like overcut and like lifeless. Like that's where the movie should sort of soar.

And you have Lady Gaga. I do. Like she's not even singing to the fullness of her abilities. No, no, no. I think she's kind of goodness. She's an incredibly talented performer. I think the movie totally sells her out.

Well, because her character is basically just a lecture to the audience of like, this is what Joker fans are doing. Right. Like, idolizing dismantling. This is what grad students are like. The first hour, I was like, is she great in this? And it is, to be clear. And then the, like, complete dismantling of the character

made me so angry. Yeah, no, it's really annoying that she just, to be clear, And then the, like, complete dismantling of the character made me so angry. Yeah, no, it's really annoying that she just... To be clear, she's like, I'm a psychiatrist. First she's like, I'm Harley Quinn, I'm in here for doing a bad thing. And then it turns out, like, no, she's like, some sort of a psychiatrist who was kind of faking being in the asylum to get close to him,

and she made it all up. I've always disliked... Was she actually pregnant? No. I don't think so. But isn't that crazy they didn't follow up on that? No, I don't think so. No. But isn't that crazy they didn't follow up on that? No, he follows up on it. And she's just like, pff.

On the steps, she's like, I got rid of that. Yeah. I mean, that scene is so catastrophic. It's really, at that point, yes, you're really like, end this movie. I also, it has like five endings in a row. I thought she killed herself in the scene before. I did too.

And so I'm like, well, is it, because she holds a fucking gun up to her head. And then I'm like, is he hallucinating her It has like five endings in a row. I thought she killed herself in the scene before. I did too. So I'm like, well, is it... Because she holds a fucking gun up to her head. And then I'm like, is he hallucinating her on the stairs? And then sometimes they'll cut back on it and you can't even see her on the stairs. I'm like, I'm confused, I don't know what's going on. We had compared different Reddit leaks we had read

about how the movie ended and that we're like in conflict with each other. And then I saw before you and I was like, the movie ends in a series of sequences that all feel like they could have been the ending, where I fully believe that at different points in time, the movie ended in completely different ways. It does feel like, and everything I've heard

about the production of this movie, and this is a big reason why it costs so much fucking money when people ask, how is that possible? Is that they had this massive set and a lot of background actors they had two massive sets they built right the courthouse a lot of background actors and that this movie for a pretty talkie fucking grounded thing was sort of made the way the Christopher McCrory mission impossible movies were made where they just get to set every day and every actor was on hold every day and they'd'd be like, what do we want to do?

And they just threw a bunch of shit at the wall. I think this movie was kind of made Chooser an adventure style, which is why it feels like it has conflicting ideas in it because they were like, I don't know, we'll find it. You know, I think they had a script going into it, but we're throwing a lot of shit at the wall. And it does feel like the movie includes

both the ending that was intended to be her suicide and the scene where she comes in and explains why in a perfect bow she's over him. Like it includes like branching timeline things. Then of course we get this wonderful epilogue where he gets killed by a random inmate who then like sits down and carves a smile into his face. Heath Ledger style. Imitating sort of the Heath Ledger character. Which it has come out that that was part of Philip's pitch

that he wanted to be the ending of the first movie when Joker's in Arkham Asylum, and that was the one thing where Warner Brothers was like, that is one step too far. You cannot do that because Christopher Nolan is still a beloved member of our stable, and we don't want to make him mad by, like, messing with the legacy of that series. And also, like, maybe... How times have changed. Just don't fucking touch ledger at all.

Maybe that's too loaded in every direction. No, to me, the movie's only kind of touching it in the... The Glasgow smile thing is the only thing. It wasn't as explicit as the redhead had liked me to believe. But the guy's doing a little bit more of a ledger impression than I would have expected. I was profoundly disinterested by what was being shown to me. Just make you laugh.

I just did not like it at all. I was a little, in the Hangover part three, like I'm fascinated by what this movie is trying to do at war with itself, set up of what I thought was a reasonably good spine at set up that the movie completely botches, which is, and I think the way that the first Joker movie deals with fucking mental illness

is really condescending and exploitative. It's quite simplistic, yes. I like hate it, and I hated that the movie did this sort of back patty victory lap of like, no, this is like a somber like call to attention for the people that society neglects. And I'm like, this is a movie that gawks over how weird his body looks for 90,

it's mostly just look at how weird this fucking guy is. Right, there's a lack of discipline that plays against that being the stated intent of the movie that I really think was a added on later award season narrative. This movie I think is a little more engaged in him actually being a mentally ill person. I agree with you that I think, like,

the Arthur performance kind of works, and once he becomes Joker again, it's a disaster. There's something I kind of like about him being totally canatonic and dead inside at the beginning of the film, although it does go on very fucking long. It's also not that fun to watch. No, it's not.

The one idea the movie has that I think is a little interesting that it doesn't know how to follow through on, and it's what the cartoon sets up, is here's this guy whose entire complex is, he's ignored in life, he wants to entertain, he wants to connect to people, he can't do it. He has finally now become this like weird beloved celebrity. Even as a controversial figure, he's got attention and there's like discourse around him and he feels completely disassociated from it

because it's basically a persona and not him. And the movie trying to litigate like, is Joker a different character than he is? Is that an outpouring of his trauma? Was that a performance? What is it? And like, at the beginning I was like, fuck, am I gonna like this movie?

And then increasingly scene by scene It was losing me because it just doesn't have a clarity of vision to be able to actually like follow that through to any satisfying endpoint That's that's what I want to say about the film. I Think yeah, I think if you could see me now number is good I think when he sings in the interview with Steve Coogan, that kind of works. But once again, like the only numbers that kind of work for me

are the ones that are not really musical numbers. Like the Coogan scene in Coogan looking hot. He's looking good. I mean, you know, as he always is. But he's like just the perfect, Steve Coogan is like, but you're Joker from the film Joker, and you did this stuff in Joker. What do you make of it?

And he's like, I don't know. And I'm just like, I can't, can something happen please? Anything, just action, action. That was the one other thing I was gonna say in defense of Gaga. I don't need her, she doesn't need defense. We have nothing against her.

She's great, she's doing great. We blame Todd Phillips for not utilizing her proper. Final thing I wanna say about the movie. Harley Quinn, as we said, created as like a fun com, a cartoon character. Yes. And Todd Phillips for not utilizing her proper. Final thing I want to say about the movie. Harley Quinn, as we said, created as like a fun com, a cartoon character. Yes. Right? Added to the comics later.

Becomes an incredibly popular character. Totally. Has become humongous. But there is this thing of like, a character was originally created as just like, the Joker's mall. What if he had like a sassy? Female sidekick who was in love with him,

but it's this sort of dark, abusive, like dynamic. Exactly. So over time, the dynamic deepens and writers have tried to approach it in a sensitive way and some have done it much better than others but there's this whole idea of it being right this abusive relationship and at times it's like did Joker like fucking brainwash her you know I think some of the depictions of Harley Quinn are like weirdly depriving her of any agency by making her someone who just got like jokerfied and now is stuck like cursed to a life

of being Lady Joker, even as they've tried to make her her own character away from him. The narrative is always, well, the Joker fucked her up and now she's her own thing, right? I kind of was into at the beginning of this movie, the setup of this movie, the set up of like, no, she's someone who like,

sees him, quote unquote, that she's like insane, that it's not like he fucking gas lit his therapist and tricked her and threw her in a barrel of toxic waste. Oh yeah, it reverses the narrative, where he's like the submissive to her. And in that dynamic, Gaga is incredibly good casting. And I thought she was really electric. And then as the movie unwinds and is like,

no, she's just like some fucking, like, fangirl who's also, like, abusive and superficial to him. It bombed me out hardcore. David? Yes? This episode, can you guess? Movie! Brought to guess? Movie!

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How did he find anything to play that kind of role? Look, we're excited to see this movie. It sounds really cool. Ben and I have our tickets. At the time of this recording. Yeah, you got your tickets. We got our tickets. It got huge reviews it can.

It was a, I mean, it's a big player this year. I'm very excited to see it. I've heard it is absolutely crazy and fun. And hey, look, it'll change your life. Let's just say this, we love the way to see it. I've heard it is absolutely crazy and fun. And hey, look, it'll change your life. Let's just say this. We love the way MUBI does it. They're buying challenging movies at festivals. Putting them in theaters!

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Goodbye. Bye bye. There is a Ketchup Entertainment release that will have just come out in some capacity. It's getting a fairly wide release. Okay. Yes. I know a lot of our international listeners are frustrated by this being part of the episode because the movie does not have as strong an international rollout outside of North

America. I do believe it's going straight to Netflix in a number of countries. Makes sense. It's going straight to plane, I would imagine. This movie should go straight to plane. God, if I saw this on a plane, I'd be like, I would just fucking stop. Let's just make this the headline. Goodrich is maybe the most effective plane movie of the year.

If you put this on a plane, you are going to have zero regrets. And I don't mean this as a backhanded compliment. We all, I mean, look, as the flip side of Joker, we all sat there and were like, this movie is kind of doing what it promises to do. Right? By and large, yes. It is not a great film?

No. I think it's a huge step up from Home Again? Even though I wasn't on for that episode, I really liked that movie. I really like Home Again as a, you know, an adult work. An object of fascination. Exactly.

The term you threw out just now. Gas leak cinema. Gas leak cinema. Where you're just like, is everyone just, is there something wrong? Yes. Why are people talking this way? Is there a gas leak? Goodrich is a fascinating.

Goodrich is Hallie Meyers-Scheier's second film, a one hour and 50 minute dramedy about an art dealer whose second wife, his younger wife, leaves him out of nowhere for rehab program. And he didn't even know. about an art dealer whose second wife, his younger wife, leaves him out of nowhere for rehab program. And he didn't even know she had a drug problem. This guy's checked out. He didn't know what kind of problem she had.

He's checked out, he's a workaholic, and so now he has to raise his two nine-year-old twins and try to continue to forge a relationship with his elder daughter, who is a grown woman, who's pregnant herself. Mila Kunis plays her, Michael Keaton plays Andy Goodrich, the titular Goodrich.

My guy, Michael Keaton. Absolutely. What about Andy Goodrich? I kind of like Andy Goodrich. I mean, you know, you were sitting there, at the end of the movie, I turn to you, you have tears in your eyes. Big tough guy, big strong guy, David Sims. Tears in his eyes comes up to me and says,

you know, representation really matters and it's good to see it on screen. Twin Dad Cinema. I feel like we all kind of teared up during this movie. Got me a couple moments. Couple moments kind of got me. I mean, it's about a dad learning to be a dad after years of already being a dad.

Look, all four of us have had very different relationships with our fathers, but they're all loaded in different directions. Oh, sure. Dad movies are a pretty effective way to poke boxes. Yeah. I think for a lot of people. But yeah. I think most of the sentiment, this movie succeeds in wringing out does not feel super

manipulative. No. No, this movie is not manipulative. My problem with Goodrich, if I have one, which is, you know, like, we just described the premise of the movie to you. You can basically guess the arcs of Goodrich. Yeah. Like, if I tell you, like, yeah, his second wife leaves him, he's stuck with his kids, and his older daughter is pregnant. You're like, okay, I imagine he, like, learns some lessons about being a dad, and he, you know, ends up with his older daughter is pregnant. You're like, okay, I imagine he like learned some lessons

about being a dad and he, you know, and ends up with his older daughter having a kid and they kind of make a breakthrough too. And good rich. In a very Nancy Meyers way, it has like four additional subplots that take up a weird amount of time and a bunch of supporting characters.

And you're like, but I can see how these sort of come together, but yes. I was expecting it to much more just be those two threads running in balance and it's, there are long stretches where like neither CUNYs nor the kids are really part of it. 100%. There are two, I would say, right, semi-major B plots.

One is Goodrich pursuing the estate of a dead sort of artist who like only became famous late in life. Well, I think- A black female artist. Because his gallery is not doing well. The Goodrich Gallery is failing. They're behind on rich. We're losing our galleries. They're taking them away. Kevin Pollock shows up

for maybe like eight minutes of total screen time. Forgot I said Goodrich, it feels more like Badrich these days. Good poor. But Carmen Adjogo plays the daughter of this artist who, so he's kind of pursuing her not romantically more as like a... Although I will say, I felt sexual tension between Michael Keaton and every single character

in this movie, including his daughter. Including 100% Mila Kunis, in ways that I think maybe there could have been a little bit of intervention on the direction. I agree. I said to... And maybe he doesn't need to call her babe? This movie is... Oh my God, he said babe,

and then there's a big emotional... The final line, which let's not spoil, but there's a final... Well, no, I mean, well... We're gonna spoil the movie. Spoilers for Goodrich. Spoilers for Goodrich. You know what, I'm with Griffin.

Here's why, because I think us... His final line to his daughter... Us devoting half an episode to this is maybe gonna constitute 50% of the entire marketing push for this movie People might actually go see this because of this episode He uses it in advance. We think people should see this movie. We liked this movie And here's another like the type of movie we bemoan a lot doesn't really happen anymore

Right like a lot of like this is in a certain way This feels like Halle taking a step away into her own identity Not just doing weird like child of nancy movie But but also it's like it's getting a little into like cameron crow Yeah, it was very it was very james albrook james albrook like all these sort of like middle brow High level adult dramedy movie star movies that we love a two-hander between Mila Kunis and Michael Keaton. And I think going into this, if you know who the director is, I assumed that we're going to be identifying with Mila Kunis' character and it's going to be about, it's going to

be focused on her and her relationship to her father. But I was most struck by how much the film puts you in Michael Keaton's perspective. It is a good rich movie. And it is a good rich movie. And I think that really is like cool that she's able to... I agree. You know, get into this guy's psyche. I think if anything, a weird failing of the movie is that the Mila

Cunha's character is underwritten. I agree. I think she's a little miscast. I can't decide who would be the right person. I think she's a little miscast. I can't decide who would be the right person. I think she's a little old. The role is underwritten. So I'm not sure anyone's gonna be anything in it. Dakota Johnson.

Oh, putting her in a movie. What a bold and interesting decision that would be. Hey! Hey! Hey, good Dakota Johnson impression, by the way, just saying that. Did I tell you guys I'm being Adam Webb for Halloween? Marie! So you're gonna talk like this the entire time?

I bought a really my god trick-or-treat I bought a really good wig with my feet give me something good to you. I've got a can I don't know what's happening right now Ellen Ellen Next them all I ordered a red faux leather blazer I've got sunglasses because I'm only like I'm her after she's become Adam Web Do you guys know that I know last 30 seconds? You're oh you're dressing up as the end credits, yes

Do you guys know that I'm going to be the villain of Madame Webb? David's doing an impression of the matter. We have to stop Madame Webb of the film, Madame Webb. We have to stop Madame Webb. On the ADR. I keep seeing visions of her. He's moving his mouth more than he's saying words. I just wanna repeat, I have watched Madame Webb four times.

You know what? I wanna get a temperature check here. Madame Webb, better than Joker, Fully Ado. Undeniably. Undeniably. Undeniably. I've really hovered over the purchase button on the Madame Webb steelbook. I had a great time watching Madame Webb.

Madame Webb is like a wrong object that gives me joy. Yeah. That I like, I'm happy while watching it. I have Madame Web over Tarot and Joker Folly-a-doo in my list this year. Great, okay. Ben, have you seen Madame Web? I have.

No offense to Tarot. I loved it. It's great. I mean, yes. Let's get back to it. I'll tell you who doesn't love Madame Web, my new character, the villain from Madame Web. I hate her.

David? doesn't love Madam Webb. My new character, the villain for Madam Webb. I hate her. David. I can't remember the name. Ezekiel Sims. I was going to say, I will write you a check for $500. If you can pull the name and I'm so glad you answered before I remember that it was Sims. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But it is Ezekiel. I only remember that it was Sims. Yeah. Okay, okay. But it is Ezekiel Sims, right? It is. You nailed it. Yeah. My name, of course, is Ezekiel Sims.

Um... Just one of those things where they're like, can we have fucking the Scarlet Spider? No. No. Can we have, I don't know, like, you know, Hydromant? Nah, you can't. You can have Ezekiel Sims. Who the hell is that? I don't know. I, you know, Hydroman, now you can't, you can have Ezekiel, who the hell is that? I don't know, I just pulled him out of this big folder.

He's who you get for Madam Web. Like, that's, anyway, good rich. Good rich. I have no idea if this is true, but isn't this movie surely about Charles Shire a little bit? That's what we assumed. I think it has to be.

Because like Charles Shire, the father of Hallie Meyer Shire left Nancy Meyers many years ago Yes after being married to her for like I think almost 20 years. Yes married someone else work partnership much like in this movie It's like they work in the same field. They work together. They split off She's now more successful became more successful than he was more successful in the 80s and 90s Yeah becomes more successful in the 2000s and the whole whole movie is sort of like... -"Your thing went out of style." -"A hundred percent." Which Charles Shire now hasn't made a movie in over ten years. Correct, and Charles Shire...

Twenty years? Is Alfie his final film? Yeah, so 20 years ago. And Charles Shire, you know, married someone else after Nancy Meyers, that marriage ended in divorce, he has more kids than Halle, so I don't know, like, you know, if he had kids with his later wife. I want to say I think Hallie now was married with a child. All right.

You know, it just, it just feels like her processing her dad. Anything about him getting remarried. No, but he, he, well, he has a marriage after Nancy. He was married to a woman called Debra Lynn from 2004 to 2009. Much like in Goodrich, right. It has also ended. But I think he had at least a child in that second marriage. He has four children total and Nancy only had two.

So again, you know, it's just, you can imagine at least a leaping off point being maybe, like, maybe something like this happened in her family. And she had a moment with her dad like this. This movie was announced in 2019. Yes, it's been sort of bubbling for a while. Back when I was much more engaged with trying to be a professional actor. Oh, I think his kids are twins too, a boy and a girl. Yeah. I mean, yes.

This was like an immediate, I emailed all of my reps and was like, I will do anything to be in this movie, both because of my, you know, Meyershire family obsession, but also just like fucking Michael Keaton. Marie did an audition tape with me for this movie. Marie. I remember. You're probably auditioning for who? The Nico Haraga character? Like, is he one of the gallery assistants or something?

You could have been the husband. No. You're close. I want to see if you can pin it. Okay, so Michael Urie's character? No. No, he's really, by the way, really good. I mean, he's a great actor. I love Michael Urie. But he's really good.

That was my favorite of the B-plots. Okay, so not Niko Haraga, who plays like this week. It's basically one scene. I thought that guy was really cute. Not Danny DeFerrari, who I'm just gonna say this, and I do not mean this as a joke, I spent the entire movie being like, is this like Josh Radner with like a sort of a spray tan

or something? Oh my God, I thought it was Josh Radner the whole movie. It looked like Josh Radner, he's the I didn't know it wasn't Josh Radner. He's the husband. Yeah, the husband. But I would look at him and I'd be like, no, I know what Josh Radner looks like and it's not quite this, but it's close.

It was uncanny. So is Josh Radner like changed? But then I just saw Josh Radner off Broadway and I already forgot the name of that play. Andy McDowell's cosplay. No, it's like, Hello, love to do Christmas in New York What is like the obvious like one scene kind of like

Functional character part that a countin guy who's like yeah, I'm looking at the numbers and they just say down Yeah, who's that? I like that actor. I always forget his name. He played the son on Barry, Henry Winkler's son. Yeah, and he was in something else. He's in a bunch of stuff. I'm gonna find him. I'm gonna find him.

But the second that scene started, Marie Tapp me and was like, hey, remember we did this. Anyway, I've been tracking this movie for a long time. So you did this, that was those other lines. We're very familiar with that scene. Yes. This movie got delayed because of pandemics

and strikes and whatever, but yes, has long been in the works. And Keaton is obviously like my favorite living actor in the lead up to Beetlejuice. And also because I was kindly asked to do a Keaton episode for the big picture, I started a project of like, let me see if I can go through the whole fucking Keaton filmography and fill in the blind spots and rewatch the things I haven't seen since I was a child.

I think there are only five or six of his movies I haven't seen now. All are in the back half. Mostly in the doldrums between 2000 and 2014. Right, his true like white noise era. Like movies that only got released in Europe, like Quick Sand with Michael Caine and The Last Time with Brendan Fraser where you're like, what the fuck is this?

There's a soccer movie with Robert Deval. Like these are sort of the only ones I haven't seen. Andrew Leeds. Andrew Leeds. We found this at the same time. He's the name of the actor. He's very good. I like him in general. I'm intensely jealous that he got to do this thing with Michael Keaton.

This motherfucker. Yeah, he earned it. But um... He earned it, Andrew. Good job, Andrew. I was trying to do this project chronologically, so really sort of charting the development and the arc of the Keaton movie star career, because his arc is really weird, and in a lot of ways it's characterized by this narrative

of like, he fucked it up at different times. He like had the juice and then would blow it. He would wrong foot it. He was on Cris Stella. He was the will-they-won't-they in Cris Stella. Because Cris Stella gets the job at the sort of white shoe law firm. And he's the kind of goody two shoes there

and they have a will-they-won't-they thing. And that show was underrated and I was bringing that single episode yes that's who he is bring that Cristello ten years ago now anyway Michael Keaton's career yeah you know the last ten years we talked about this in the Beetlejuice episode but it feels like after his Birdman year and then certainly spotlight the year after that it feels like he is like fully minted now as like the guy's never gonna be ignored again. He's like icon status for the rest of his life. He's made bad movies in the last 10

years. He's had hits, he's had flops, but it feels like he's not in danger of like falling into the wilderness again. No, there's a Michael Keaton movie every single year. In the way he was in the mid 80s and the 90s and the mid 2000s, like he's had these real dark periods. Although his only film in 2022 was his scintillating cameo in the film Morbius, where he shows up and is like, I feel like Spider-Man has something to do with this. And Morbius is like, don't know who that is, but it was nice to see you, roll credits.

I believe his line is, I hope the food's better in this joint. But isn't he in the Tom Haul, isn't he the vulture? Yes. He's the vulture and Morbius has this post-credits scene where they clearly were like, we were hoping we could get like You know someone better and they're like you can have Michael Keaton show up

In the end credits of vulture which they've set up takes place in a different I'm sorry of Morbius which they've set up take place in a different reality than the MCU because there is a weird like Fuck characters can't intercept like like Venom can't whatever. At the end of Morbius and the end credits, and Michael Cain was in the trailers in the market. He was only in the end credits of the movie in two different end credit scenes. They pan over to an empty jail cell

and then there is like a 60s Star Trek original series style effect of him basically phasing into the empty jail cell. He turns to the camera and goes, well, the food's better in this joint. And then it cuts to like ADR newscaster being like, in a very bizarre occurrence, a prisoner from an alternate dimension has magically appeared in an empty jail cell. More on this story as it develops.

And you're like, what the fuck is that five more minutes of Morbius credits and then there's a scene in which a Morbius, Dr. Michael Morbius, the living vampire is driving like a fucking Ferrari like speeding through the desert he parks in the middle of nowhere then a fully CGI Michael Keaton in full get up with helmet on Not on set flies down and then like ADR recorded on like a fucking lunch break if not a shit break Says I'm gonna talk about this Fell like he was like sleep talking. Yes See Morbius no Morbius is what Morbius wishes it was madamware. Okay, Morbius does not have

That's what I wanted to know is it madam web level? Not really Morbius is pretty just I basically just said all the funniest things I mean Matt Smith is doing his best to have life in that movie. Yeah, but yeah No, it's not another movie. We're like weird a DR. Like what was this scene supposed to be? Yeah characters like outfits changing mid-scene And it's also more of us being like I have superpowers than he does nothing with it Right, like it's like he does good or bad. It just doesn't do it once and he pretends to be venom His whole thing is he's just he's just got a medical issue. Yeah His whole thing is he's just got a medical issue. Yeah.

Sorry. It doesn't matter. He's kind of got a magical cancer. And then he comes up with a cure that turns him into the living vampire. And he flies through the New York City subway, London Underground at one point. Yeah, it's a movie for losers. But what I was going to say is, it's been so satisfying to see this Michael Keaton comeback and be like, the guy is fully embraced now

And he's allowed to do a full range of things including paycheck cameos in the end credits Comedies and dramas and you know yeah, I mean well we talked about this after we left the movie this is what I'm setting up because It's fun to see him do Beetlejuice again to revisit a character that you know was big for him in the 80s And he did that with Batman in the Flash last year. Exactly. A movie that sucks but he's very locked in. And Goodrich is his revisiting of Mr. Mom.

This is my contention. Which I watched last night. My mom always loved that movie and I watched it as a kid but I had not seen it as an adult. It is very much a time capsule but he is so charming in it. He is on fire in that fucking movie and you get why this guy just like Exploded instantly where you're like, this is a completely unique one-of-one comedy leading man And it's it's so I'm trying to think of other movies that fit this that are like an actor makes a movie Like for 40 years later that is kind of like a fall, like, an unintentional conversation.

This is like a spiritual, like a sequel. Yes. It's, yeah. It's a fun thing to think about. Which I also think is like reflecting on, like, a weird cultural phenomenon that is more unique to now than the time in which Mr. Mom was made, which, like, Michael Cain always talks about, like,

yeah, like, Mr. Mom might seem kind of creaky now, but at the time it was made, that was a thing that like people weren't talking about. 100%. And it was like mocked, the idea of a man being like a stay at home father. And I thought we tried to do it with like a certain amount of credibility.

Or a man learning to like have a relationship with his kids. Yes, a different kind of. To take care of a home. But like have more of a sort of Mr. Mom relationship. And like, as someone who has kids, older generations are always like, you know, it's crazy that you get all this leave

and you spend all this time with them. Like, when you were born, your dad went back to work within a week, right? Like, that's just how we did it back then. And you're like, what the fuck? But you know, yeah, so it's just one generation ago. I do think there's this modern phenomenon though, of like, you know, the generation that refuses

to retire or slow down, right? Who are still, let's say, dyeing their hair brown. We're talking about Goodrich at this point. And going to work. He's got gray hair. Right, and they treated their first kids that way. Yeah. No, he's died here in this.

Does he? Which I thought was a choice that I think fits the character. This guy would want to dye his fucking hair. Because Batman, he's gray. He's mostly gray now. But in Goodrich, he's playing this guy who's trying to, yeah, still be like tip of the spear of the art world and going to shows every night and all that. At like 70 something, this guy would be sort of able to like shake out of his slumber briefly

enough to be like, I guess I should be a modern father. I guess I should pay attention to how other dads are doing it. Like it's not a thing that people are mocking as like, this is weird, why are you taking your kids to school? No. It's him sort of realizing like, I should have been doing this the whole time. And the Michael Aretha, which is so good.

The best scene in the movie is the scene with Michael Urie, the first scene. Outside the school. Outside the school. So like, it's like a good rich, oh no, he forgot his kids exist or whatever and he's Outside the school. Outside the school. So it's like a good rich, oh no, he forgot his kids exist or whatever, and he's late to school. Then he gets to school, and it's some fancy ass LA school

where there's a check-in desk, and the lady's like, "'You're tardy, so I'm gonna have to mark you tardy.'" And he says, my favorite line in the movie, where he's like, "'Nah, we're just kind of like good old fashioned late. Like, there's not a reason.'" Yeah. "'We're seven minutes late, we're late, like who cares?

Like, let him go to school, right? And then Michael Urie shows up later than him and is waved in, and the kids are like, his son is epileptic, so they take it easy on him. And Cain's like, oh, okay, okay. And then he goes outside and he talks to Michael Urie. And like you said, there's not the loaded thing of him being like...

Tell me, what's your secret? Which Griffin literally said to me... I said, what's the over-under? A million bucks, he says, what's your secret? Right. Which said to me, a million bucks he says, what's your secret. Which doesn't happen. And him like kind of fetishizing like, wow, so you're a dad who like is really connected to his kid, what's going on there?

No, instead they just have a heart to heart that kind of can happen when you're a parent dropping off a kid where it's a lot of vulnerability and you're all kind of in this same boat together. Even though these are very different people. It's also a nice update of a story beat in Mr. Mom, which also involves dropping kids off at school. With the moms, though.

And him being complete, like, I have no idea what I'm doing here. And it's played for laughs. Yes. But then he eventually learns the ropes, but from other moms. And he's the only man in this environment. Here, he's with another... With Mr. Mom is that he's fetishized by the moms by being like, it's so hot that he does this.

All the single moms wanna fuck him. And in this, it's like this very touching, tender, like Michael Urie, who's still wounded from his... Michael Urie, a lovely actor. And right, he immediately starts spilling his guts. His kid has, you know, medical issues, but we're doing great and we have a great doctor, Marie has to go.

Marie, do you want to put any final thoughts on Goodrich on the record? No, I mean, I really enjoyed it. Um, I think it's cool that Mila Kunis is an entertainment writer. Uh, senior entertainment writer. Senior entertainment writer. And I, uh, I also, um, want to make sure that we talk Writer a senior entertainment senior entertainment writer I

I also Want to make sure that we talk about the fact that Joker 2 and Good rich well, we'll say we'll talk about okay good You have to say it it won't be okay Maria is going to her day job as a Arkham Asylum guard Yes, we didn't even talk about Gleason fucking phone that shit in. Yeah, we're not. I think it's better that we don't talk about it. We don't have anything to add to that conversation.

There's a scene that the three of us interpreted differently than a lot of people seem to, but also it doesn't feel like there's anything good to be gained out of talking about it in either direction. Bye Marie, love you. Bye Marie, you're the best. Hey Marie! Happy 500. Happy 500, guys. Okay,. Hey, hey Marie. Happy 500

Happy 500 guys We all love Joker right so good for the boys it's a movie for boys that's a movie about being a man These names don't Should have that take become like a culture like the best representation of masculinity I've ever seen. Joker gets it. It's a movie about how men are being crushed in our society. By women with makeup on, clown makeup! Stealing our seed and painting our faces! Uh, Joker, Folly and Dis-

And don't get me started on these sympathetic attorney women. I hate them. Anyway, the scene with Michael Urie. Michael Urie is like, yes, so my kid, this is tough, but we're doing okay. And then he starts talking about like, you know, my kid's dad left. He couldn't handle it. Like he's, you know, he's explaining something kind of private. And so Goodrich could just be like,

oh, I'm sorry to hear that, man. But instead he, he opens up too, right? He's like, yeah, look, I'm going through something too. My wife, she apparently had a drug look, I'm going through something too. My wife, she apparently had a drug problem. I didn't even know it. And he says, he's like, isn't that crazy? And then he says, like, I mean, it reflects poorly on me.

Like he doesn't just say it in a kind of like, can you believe my wife did this? He's saying, like, how did I not know? I think the thing this movie is getting at that feels- And then they kind of bond and then they make out at one point in a scene that I was really worried was going to happen, did happen, and then I was actually kind of happy

with how it was executed. I think they kind of executed perfectly. Mostly because I think the way Goodrich reacts is like, he's like, dude, my life is literally too insane for this to really be a blip right now. But also is a weird mirror of the Mr. Mom aggressive seduction from all the single moms. I think this movie is tapping into, which is kind of interesting, and it's connected to this like

guy who only as a second phase, second group of kids, second marriage, late in life, new father, can like wake up to, is like a kind of guy like this a Like boomer who basically has been allowed to float for decades Has just sort of been like propped up by society We're like this guy's waking up and he's like wow I guess this is insane that I have not paid attention to anything That I've just kind of had like I've been on a conveyor belt my whole life and had a very comfortable existence You know when people go and they leave and they come and whatever. And the problem with this movie is you're kind of, you know,

is the classic problem with these LA movies. You're like, how much do I have to care about this fucking rich guy like who has a nice house? And he's like, I don't have any money. And I'm like, you have like 18 gallery paintings in your house. You like sell one of those, right? You get a cool 50 grand? I don't know. Like there's a scene where he gets mad at his twins for flying a drone indoors and like knocking over a Ming vase

But I was like, can we take one more pass at this? Just a tone this down gas stuff like that There's gas like stuff like there are scenes where you're just like that is an insane way for a person to enter a room speaking Where you're like, you know, like who comes in and defines themselves in one sentence like this? That's the thing, explaining a little much, right? Just, yeah, yeah. There's sloppiness to it,

but there are like scenes that are really effective. And I also think in doing this full sort of like Keaton cataloging, which by the way, is why I watched her be fully loaded and logged it on letterbox no other not to disappoint anybody like for real there is no other reason yes that Keaton has talked about he has this like shot out of a cannon you know he's a stand-up he's like part of the fucking Mary Tyler Moore variety show he's doing like sitcom guest spots. Then he gets this like movie star making role in Night Shift.

Um, you know, he's the second banana. It's the part that allows him to just be the color and go wild. And the movie's a modest hit, but people immediately are like, fuck, Michael Keaton. He's hosting SNL. Mr. Mom, he's getting offered leading roles in scripts. He does Mr. Mom. Mr. Mom's a big ass hit. Yep. Big hit. Big cultural movie. Yes. And then I think right after Mr. Mom. Mr. Mom's a big-ass hit. Yep. Big hit. Big cultural movie.

Yes. And then I think right after Mr. Mom, he does Johnny Dangerously, which is his first big flop, is a movie that rules. And he... Then he does Gung Ho and she's having a baby. So he has talked about that he had made these three movies in a row and it felt like the Michael Keaton type had been established, which is what he calls the cocky, glib young man. Right. This sort of like- You talked about this on the big picture.

Wheeler dealer, fast talking, thinking out loud, the sort of like manic hand gestures and facial expressions, the swagger, you know, the sort of like confident clumsiness kind of thing. And he was like, I have to break out of this now or I'm going to be stuck in this forever. And this is when he starts like fucking up his career for the first time because he was like, I have to break out of this now, or I'm going to be stuck in this forever. And this is when he starts, like, fucking up his career for the first time, because he was so intentional about, like, I need to... He failed to do what Tom Hanks did successfully,

which is, how do I expand this? And then, like, Beetlejuice and Batman are these comeback movies that feel like they've redefined him in a new way, and then he still doesn't totally know what to do with it. This is, like, the first time he's kind of done glib young man comedy character, like the classic Michael Keaton archetype.

I would say, I'd say the other guys is doing a version of this, but this is really kind of like a flavor of Keaton that hasn't existed since the 90s. And especially because this movie's a little more Brooksie, Camerone, I was ready for him to be in much more dramedy mode. And I was so excited to watch, like, as you said,

his reaction to Michael Urie's scene where he's just like, well, no, I mean, you know, I think I got it. Honestly, you know, do I seem to get it? But I'm not a fan. Right, that stuff is just fucking catnip to me. And to see this sort of like, this was the final piece of the Michael Keaton comeback legend status era we're in right now, is him reclaiming this side of his personality.

Now, this isn't a film that will, I think, be little seen in film, in cinemas. It'll probably be, it's a movie to watch on TV. Yeah. I'm not saying that pejoratively, I'm just saying like that's the sort of role these kind of movies occupy now. Very watch on TV. I'm not saying that pejoratively, I'm just saying that's the role these kinds of movies occupy now. Very well on streaming.

100%. And that's fine. And my mom asked me how the movie was and I was like, you're gonna watch it on Netflix and you're gonna like it. This is what I've been saying to everyone. It undeniably is effective at what it does. It's incredibly watchable.

I think it's 15 minutes too long. I agree. And I think that is the kind of classic Nancy Meyers problem of Just like like you said just like do we need this thread too? We kind of got it already. I think it also like Specifically does not know how to successfully juggle time management and focus of its threats I think so too like in that you're like in bad heard from me like Eunice in a while, right? Like it just and that's that's sort of, like, high-level invisible filmmaking shit that is hard to, like, credit why it's working when it works. You take it for granted, but when it doesn't work, you feel it.

But this movie has a straightforward story that basically follows in a way that Home Again doesn't... Totally... Home Again, you're like, this character is making odd decisions. And I'm kind of here for it because it's demented But it doesn't make it's not very logical No, I'd like that it's also not a like guy solves his life movie like that's what I really like about it Because you're saying the like uncompelling rich people problem shit

I'm like the movie I was surprised this was closer to than I expected is Gore Verbanski's the weatherman a movie I love that is like for You used to cut for? Yes, a movie about a guy having a similar kind of like, my life's a mess crisis, but is mostly him coming to terms with like, I am deeply mediocre. He keeps trying to get his life together. And it's a movie about a guy being like, oh, I'm not a great man.

Goodrich, I feel like it's more like he's over the hill. It's not quite that. He's over the hill, he's an art dealer, and you kind of have to traffic and cool, right? And being with it, and he's... Being able to talk the talk. He's an old guy now. The Keaton level finesse.

And everyone's telling him, hey man, we moved into this neighborhood 40 years ago, it was cool, now it's expensive and bougie, we can't really afford it anymore. And there's this thread of will he get this big estate sale, and that'll save the gallery. And learn how to be a father, and learn how to save his marriage, and be there for Mila Kunis and make up for the lost time.

And he does, it's like two out of four. He like, he absolutely learns how to be a better father. He's mostly learned how to be a little better of a sort of, you know, friend and father to Mila Kunis. He doesn't save the gallery. He almost gets it, but Carmen Adjogo, you can see it coming because she comes in too early and you're like, yeah, this isn't gonna work out. And instead he has to sort of say goodbye to his career

because he's getting old and like it's not gonna work for him anymore. And he doesn't save his marriage, which is not surprising because that character is not seen in the movie until right at the end. The other scene I really like is the scene with him and Mila Kunis at the gallery after the goodbye party. That's a good scene.

And here's the thing I want to pull out. It's just an emotionally intelligent scene. And this isn't even like a faint praise award thing. I complain so much about the fucking cinematic language of comedies these days, especially because we get so few of them. And especially talking about how fucking unimaginative the musical numbers in Joker are, how you feel a lack of confidence in Todd Phillips and how to cover those, how to shoot them,

how to edit them. This is a movie that has many sequences that play out in sustained two shots, where actors are controlling the rhythm, especially for an actor like Michael Keaton, who in this mode, you kind of want to film like he's Gene Kelly. Like, Michael Keaton is an actor where he's a full-body comedian.

His rhythms are so weird. The energy he gets with another actor, if you're shooting that in kind of like sitcom coverage, it plays against the magic of what he's delivering. And like that Mela Kunis scene largely plays out in like a wide two shot. A lot of this movie doesn't have this kind of fucking sitcom coverage that I hate,

which by the way is also like detrimental to movies that are made on more limited budgets like this because studios aren't supporting. Nancy could get away with doing a film like this because she has four days for every scene or whatever. And these movies you're like, they're probably shooting four scenes a day. It is actually just smart.

I think this movie looks good. It has actual choices about like color and lighting and focus. There's some blocking. There's some, you know, sequences where it's like, oh, there's a big pillar between them. I get it. There's like nighttime shit where they're only like

lit by the reflection of like the moon. It looks fine. Right. Like I was like, there's some actual like sort of like growth happening here cinematically that also looks different from either of her parents' movies. Is its own thing. I was like just very satisfied by this. It is like a gentleman six with a couple like incredibly locked in performances.

And, and some stuff that is deranged and totally doesn't work. Uh, Ben, what was your thoughts on Goodrich? So gentle. Just nice. It's nice. It's a comfy movie. You were leaning back. Yeah.

Taking it in. Shedding tears. I shed some tears. Yeah. Taking it in. Shedding tears. I shed some tears. Yeah. Yeah, the like art world sort of stuff, I feel like maybe we could have dug in more or something. Like I felt like there was comedy there to be mined. Well, like, Pollock being his partner,

you're like, oh, these two guys together, this feels like a good pairing. And as Maurice said, he's like, just kind of there, doesn't really do anything. Yeah. There's just some stuff that just felt like they'd, it was just very surface level. I mean, it's like the classic rom-com

thing of like, your rich characters either like work in architecture or an art gallery, or like the two go-tos it feels like it you always land on those two and To have Halle Meyer Shire after like home again is about like my divorced parents were very successful filmmakers This time she's trying to get away from filmmaking and the best she can land on is like art gallery Which is a I would say, a profession that is weirdly overrepresented in film

relative to how many people do it in the world. Of course. And I'm always a big proponent of like, if you just give your character an interesting job that is not in movies very often, you're already gaining points from that. Versus art gallery feels like kind of a placeholder, whatever. Yeah.

The times we see him be a dad to the twins, it's basically driving them off at school and then dealing with them at home before he goes out. Making them lunches and stuff. I thought this movie was going to be more prestige old dogs than it is. There's just, there needed to be more, just something else. But there's, there's, there's the risk with kid characters. Where it's like, how much time do you want to spend with these kind of cutesy kid characters?

You know, it's like, he can get a little... Totally. It just, it felt, you know, very surface level. Yeah, I agree. I also agree. The scene where he has to explain rehab to them is like the one that feels the most effective, and you're like, this guy's figuring out his own language to actually relate to them you know it's got it's got good pieces Mula's character just is like so barely

anything it feels like they had her for ten days and all her scenes are her walking in it's just like well I just don't know what to do because I have this relationship with my dad. Like, you know, like she's kind of, like you say, kind of explained in herself. Truly feels like they could have shot her out in a week if they busted the rest. It's just weird because it feels like

that would be the character that would be the one that she would want to dig in the most into. To Marie's point about it being interesting that the film's not from the vantage point of the character that is seemingly based on the filmmaker, right, Lorraine Scafaria is the meddler. Great movie. Right, but is similarly a movie.

A similar dramedy tone. But where you're like, oh, Sarandon really is the lead of this. Like Rose Byrne is clearly playing a stand-in character for her and her relationship with her mother, but the movie is from the vantage point of the mother, and it feels interesting to see someone make a film about their experiences and their relationships and not set it from their perspective. But in that movie, I think Rose Byrne feels like a fully realized person is a more successful version of this movie in general.

I would agree. The Medlars is a better movie than this. movie in general. I would agree. The Medlars is a better movie than this. Right. And that's a good director. It's like she's having a baby and the scene is so much more about Keaton's character and his experience of that movie. Yeah, but I kind of liked that in that there's just so many movies where they're like, now we end with a big baby sequence, right?

And it's like, no, no, no. She's actually going to be fine. She has figured her shit out. Does she have a complicated relationship with her dad? Yes, but she knows that. And she's only mad at herself for kind of, like, letting him in more, and then he lets her down a little bit, and she's sad about it.

But, like, she's gonna have the baby. She found her person. He's nice. There's a nice scene where he calms her down. You think he's a bit of a dork? He's nice. Yeah. Nice scene where he calms her down. She's a senior entertainment writer. Do you think he's a bit of a dork? He's such a fucking dork. He's such a huge dork. I was on Keaton's side.

In a sweet way. Yeah, Keaton's like, fuck this guy. This guy's such a fucking dork. And yes, no, it's more about him, which you're right that it's a bit of a choice to be like, yeah, this is a Michael Keaton character movie, not a Mila Kunis. And you'd think Holly Meyers Cher would want it to be a Mila Kunis movie more.

I don't know. I don't know. I'm not mad about it though. No, because we're trying to, you know, be somewhat vague. Yeah. But we've spoiled the basic things. I do just feel like the line he has at the end, which Marie and I felt like it's an ambitious swing. has at the end, which Marie and I felt like it's an ambitious swing. She's looking for a big iconic, a sort of Jerry Maguire-esque, what is the one sentence this guy can say that is an emotional gut punch? And it's an ambitious line. Like you hear it and you're like, that's a wild choice. I think the movie doesn't quite pull it off, but I also don't

want to spoil it because your mileage may vary, and your mileage is going to be based on you not knowing what the line is. There is the very LA-y scenes that are just like fun little moments. The nightclub and the class. Yeah. I mean, the nightclub-

I wanted, I just wanted more specific- Because Keaton's good at reacting to that. Yeah. I mean, the night club. I wanted, I just wanted more. Cause Keaton's good at reacting to that. Yeah, he like. His reaction shots during Kermit and Jogo's performance. Incredible. Unbelievable. Yeah. Like that, I think.

I go to like any feminist art night I can find. I think that played the most for the most laughs. Yes. I mean, the biggest laugh, the entire screening we went to was, I'm a senior entertainment writer. Well, of course. The audience, the film, the critic screening audience really laughed at that one. But also, speaking of how underdeveloped that character is, it's like 40 minutes in, she like yells what her job is for the first time,

and then basically never comes up again. I understand she's on leave. What are you talking about? You're a great writer. What are you talking about? You'll write a profile or you won't you'll quit whatever Yes, she's just already be on leave. Yeah, I couldn't really figure that out right like the job thing like doesn't yeah Hmm anyway apparently Jackie Sandler's in this movie. She's bought her the who's the daughter or the wife Jackie Tatone? Sandler I'm looking on Wikipedia right now. Let me look on time to be

Sadie Sandler's the right he's got two daughters now let me look on the mdb Sadie Sandler's the right he's got two daughters but she's on an mdb so maybe okay maybe was cut out maybe I was cut out yeah a lot of comedy people in this sure Chloe Trost Lisa Trager who did Chloe Trost play Chloe Trost is at the bar when he goes to the feminist night uh-huh she's the one who sells him the ticket oh that seemed was kind of funny yeah she's kind of funny in it yeah that at the bar when he goes to the feminist night. She's the one who sells him the ticket. Oh, that scene was kind of funny. Yeah, she's kind of funny in it.

Yeah, that was a classic Keaton scene because, right, he just brings a little spice to it. But yeah, she's like, it's $20 or 25 online. And he's like, I'm right here. I'm right here, it's 20. Yeah, he made that funny. That fucking rhythm of Keaton dialogue is just like, it will never not satisfy me.

Do you wanna do the box office game for a joke or folly a do? Yeah. Box office game. What about it, Ben? What about it? It's of course. What?

Sponsored by our friends at Regal Cinemas. Our fine friends at Regal Cinemas. Whoa. It's time to put a crown upon the box office game. We love to play the box office game, of course, but it is so exciting. It's very exciting. That we are sponsored by Regal.

We love the movies and we love theatrical movie going, and we're very excited to be entering a very nice friendship with Regal that is all in the name of trying to support and endorse the idea of going to the movies. Yes. Yeah. Joker, so we'll do the Joker Folly, the now notorious Joker Folly I do,

opening weekend. Let's laugh. No Joker popcorn bucket, no Goodrich popcorn bucket. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, you're kidding me. What would that look like? But Regal has an excellent Venom bucket which they did send us. Yeah to Marie's point we have to acknowledge What would the good rich bucket be though? What would the good rich bucket be? That's a good question

Like genuinely is there like a definitive prop in good rich? You can think about it the bucket I would want is clearly like a version of the Deadpool bucket but just with Michael Keaton's face I Just want that bucket. Yeah, what? Of course the original Joker 2019 Joker opened to 96 million dollars and made 335 domestic and a billion worldwide or pregnant belly

very convincing. They're, no, you're saying that should be the bucket? Yeah. That's another weird thing is at the beginning of the movie, his wife, like the movie cold opens on him getting called from his wife who's like, I left for rehab, I'm gone for 90 days. I have a pill addiction, how did you not notice?

It would be impossible to track the passage of time in this movie other than Mila Kunis' belly, where you're just like, oh, two months have passed? So Joker 1 opened very highly. There was a very good... Reddit thread, there I give them credit. R slash blankies. About how Joker 2 falls into the rare category of the inverse of my favorite kind of box

office stat. Okay, yes. It will make less. Almost certainly. It will 100% certainly make less than the prior film's opening weekend. Alone, its entire run. Yes. Yes.

Which has happened a few times. Alice with the Looking Glass is the other big example. That's another big one. Yes. So Joker, Follyadoo, yeah, you know, I think originally they were probably hoping for like, hey, maybe we'll open like Joker. And then it became like, well,

it's probably gonna get like 60, 70 mil. And then it became like, oh, well we're shooting for 50 mil. And then it became like, it's probably gonna get like 60 70 mil and then it became like oh well we're shooting for 50 mil and then it became like it looks like it's gonna be 40 mil and then it became it came in at 37 mil. It kept going down. I mean David you're even like I'm sure their optimism at first was like does this thing open to like 150? Sure we got Lady Gaga! The first one opened to like 95 and then won Oscars and also held really well. Ahhhh. Yes, it ended up opening way, like basically close to a third of what the first movie opened to. And of course then, not that we're doing this box office game, but the next weekend it dropped

81% essentially a record. Yeah. And we'll probably not clear like 60 million at the box office. I was looking at the list of things that have had worse drops than Folly Adur, and a lot of them are like Fathom event re-releases, which I don't think should count. One of the only other major studio movies I saw that was still above it is G. Lee. G. Lee, I think, is the only one. I think it dropped 82%.

It's a very similar kind of thing. It got a D Cinema Score, which is the worst in the history of comic book movies. That means everyone coming out, the average was a D. Yes. You know, that's why it's really hard to go that low on the cinema scores. Right. When a movie gets like a B- Cinema Score, they're like, not great. That's a bad word of mouth, unless it's a horror movie. Anyway, Joker Follyadour number one. What's number two, Griffin? I think you saw it.

Number two at the box office isn't Transformers 1. No, that is number four at the box office. A film I saw. And you did like? Quite good. I think you will love. It's a real, would have been your favorite movie as a 10-year-old. I can't wait to watch it probably on streaming.

You will watch it. Sorry I'm busy right now. I believe this movie I've not yet seen because I was traveling and I'm now trying to time out taking my little cousins to's seat is The Wild Robot? The Wild Robot at number two, which is chugging along healthily, got good reviews, obviously. Small drops. Animated film front runner for the year. People love it.

Yes. A triumph. Haven't seen it yet though. Wild Robot number two, Transformers 1 number four, Sandwich In Between Them Griffin, one of the big success stories of the fall. Oh, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Michael Keaton, hot Keaton fall. Which is digitally available to rent and buy right now,

or at least rent and out gross Joker folio to in the next weekend. Joker's second weekend with its historic drop. Seven million dollars. On like Monday or Tuesday, they amended the numbers and said it actually was even worse than we thought, and Beetlejuice is ahead of it. Beetlejuice, like, they're fucking staying in there.

That's number three, Transformers are number four. Number five is a horror remake that did pretty well. It's a horror remake that did pretty well. We talked about the actor on this episode. We talked about the actor on this episode. The star. I assume neither of us have seen it? I have not seen it.

I don't think you've seen it either. It's a horror remake that did pretty well. Of a franchise or of a single film? It is a single film and it's a remake of a single film. A foreign horror film. Oh, it's Speak No Evil. Yes, Speak No Evil with James McAvoy. Which I feel people like as well.

I've heard mixed to positive things about it. Yeah. The movie it's remaking was one of those Sundance movies where people were like, yeah, good tension and then the last act is the most unspeakable shit you've ever seen. And I was just kind of like, I'll catch up to it. Our friend Sean Fantasy was posting about this. I found it kind of fascinating.

Was doing a sort of like check-in on the year of horror, right? And for a while, it was like, you could release any shitty horror movie in theaters, it would open to 15, 20-ish range, like as a basement, and basically get to $50 million. Right. Speaking of Evil is kind of like,

I think it's the fourth highest grossing horror film of the year, and it's at like mid to high 30s. Yeah, it's made like 35. There is a tier of like Alien Romulus, which I think counts. That counts, sure.. Long legs. Yeah. And there's one other one, oh, Quiet Place. Yeah. Those are the three that like really crossed over. Then there's a huge Gulf. Everything then is like the 30 range is like Night Swim, Abigail, you know, like movies in their 20s or 30s.

And then he's like, but then the other chunk of it is the amount of like IFC midnight films that made it to 10. Right, like you can make a decent amount of money on your tiny movie, like you're in a violent nature. Right, that like the middle of horror is kind of shrinking, but the low end of horror is growing. And let's say the thing that B Joker in its second weekend was fucking Terrifier 3,

which in its opening weekend made more than the entire lifetime grosses of Terrifier 1 and 2 combined by a multiple. It's like an insane homegrown phenomenon. I will not see Terrifier 3 anytime soon just because those movies seem very long and punishing. I've been meaning to kind of dip my toe into that world. That's my thing. There's plenty that's like,

do we need to know, but yeah. Yeah, I'll get to it. Um, my friend Andrew, sort of one of my big horror movie friends, has been, like, pushing it for me, but I don't know. I watch Tarot, okay? I watch Tarot. I can't believe you watch Tarot. Well, I basically, in the throes of, like, really early parenting these twins,

I was like, look, I cannot get outside to see movies, so I'll just catch up on any 2024 movies that I can just watch on streaming right now. Tarot was one of them. What else was in that pool? Oh, I can tell you. Young Woman in the Sea, which... I can't believe I still haven't seen it.

I need to watch that. It was on Disney+. Wolfs, I watched Spaceman. Oh yeah. Which I really wanted to vibe with more, but like there are things I liked about it. I watched like Will and Harper like You know stuff that's on our Abigail undeniably effective Abigail

I wish work better, but there's stuff in there stuff But it doesn't there are chunks of Abigail where I was like is this thing about to start like rock in the house? So what Berera kind of drags it down a little bit and I don't dislike her always but no I think Catherine's sort of incredible in it. Yeah, and I liked you know, I liked them Dan Stevens Dan Stevens I'm a guy. Yeah, I watched Lisa Frankenstein, which I wanted to like more didn't really dig I watched the idea of you which is like that's like gas Flood sure you're like, what is anyone doing in this movie? Yeah, I watched Mean Girls I thought was pretty bad. Okay, but Connor. Yeah. No, that's great It's just the thing with Mean Girls is you like oh the dialogues the same as Mean Girls, which I thought was pretty bad. Okay, but Connor? Yeah, no, that's great.

It's just, the thing with Mean Girls is you're like, oh, the dialogue's the same as Mean Girls. Right. This is just Mean Girls again. Some of the supporting actors are the same. Right, and then they do these songs that are fine. Yeah. It's just weird.

But also you're gonna have them wear the same outfits largely. Yeah, what the fuck is going on anyway? And basically, yeah. Beekeeper, liked. I still need to see Beekeeper. Monkey Man, appreciated the ambition, didn't really work for me. Yeah, I? And basically like, yeah. Beekeeper liked. I still need to see Beekeeper. Monkey man appreciated the ambition, didn't really work for me. I wish I loved it, yeah.

Yeah, things like that. Hey, but at least it's a good like proof of concept for him to be Bond. I agree. Sure. I mean, I definitely. He's compelling. My single biggest thing walking away from it was like, yeah, let fucking Dev do shit like this.

Yeah. I would be so ecstatic. I'm just waiting for the Bond announcement to be something that I roll my eyes at. Yeah, it'll be, you know. He's maybe the only one who would excite me. It won't be. It won't be him.

He's too, he's kind of too famous. Yeah, like late night with the devil, the substance had a really great run, obviously. Substance is still like having very small drops. Substance will probably outgross the third weekend of Joker. Oh yeah. In its sixth week now? I don't know. Yeah, sounds right.

Substance rules. Yeah. No, it's an interesting time for horror. So that's all the box office game. We've also got Deadpool and Wolverine still hanging out You got white bird a Wonder Story finally out in theaters. You can go see it if you want to The substance as you mentioned Megalopolis chugging along. Yeah, we forgot to really talk about that. Have you you still not seen it, right? No, that's why I would have brought it up otherwise I couldn't see it because I had to see people were asking why we weren't combining Joker with Megalopolis or doing a Megalopolis That's my thing. I'm like, what are you talking about? Get out of here. Yeah, we'll get to that. I People were asking why we weren't combining Joker with Megalopolis or doing a Megalopolis episode.

That's my thing. I'm like, what are you talking about? Get out of here. Yeah, we'll get to that. I, I, I, I'll put it this way. I unequivocally enjoyed watching Megalopolis in a way I did not with Joker. I, I felt a lot more tapped into what he was trying to do. I could not argue it totally works. I was compelled by every second of it.

I found it very watchable. I think for the Goodrich weekend, Good rich probably not popping on that top five will have Smile to which I am hearing is pretty good. I've heard that it's secretly about trauma well Terrifier 3 will still be up there while robot will still be up there I imagine beetlejuice beetlejuice will still be up there very likely stolen the five and there. I imagine Beetlejuice Beetlejuice will still be up there. Very likely still in the five. And Joker probably won't be. So I wonder if there's anything else that sneaks in,

if there's anything else is coming out this week. I mean, the question is Goodrich, which I'm just like, I do feel like the awareness is very low on the moon. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna be Goodrich. He's hosting SNL this weekend, which I'm very excited about. I love that.

It will have, I guess just happen when this episode comes out. Yeah. Wait, oh my God. What else is coming out this week? I just sent you a link in your text message. Oh my God. What's this?

Wait a second. Not at the box office, but on our computer screens? What? Wait a second. These are t-shirts? We're very excited to say. New merch drop. And kind of not even that, just a new era for merch.

Yeah. Yes. We have changed our sort of storefront, right? We've got a new provider of merch, Kinship Goods. Look, we've been making a lot of changes. I think most of them are things that you might not even notice as a listener of the show. And the ones you do notice will hopefully be just entirely positive for you. There was a lot of stuff going on this year, especially this summer, especially as David

was also in prep daddy duty. And I'm still going through a lot of stuff, just to be clear. Absolutely. Where our heads were down and we were not communicating a lot of things and I think people were worried like, did they just not give a shit about the podcast anymore? And in fact, the opposite. We have all been very much giving shit about this podcast. We've been really actually burning the midnight oil, trying to do a bunch of stuff.

Very excited leading into our 10th anniversary in March. We have some really exciting things coming up next year. In every area, we got a lot of stuff we're planning. We're excited about what's on the schedule. We're excited about things we're doing outside of the show. And the new merch we're doing with Kinship Goods. Correct. If you are a podcast fan, you might be familiar with them already because of

their incredible work doing merch with the Dough Boys, the Action Boys, Freedom, Stay at Homekins, and they are now going to be the exclusive home of Blank Check Merchandise. Yeah. For our first batch of products, we have three t-shirts. We're doing a limited edition print of our twin peaks designed by Joe Bowen. We also have the hashtag to two friends,

sort of referencing the Pep Boys type of design. We previously only had that on a hat. We're doing it as a shirt now. We have, this is kind of a big deal, the debut of Cheki. The first ever Cheki merch. That's right. Yeah. God, I'm sure he'll have something to say about that. We also have some cool stickers and a hat with the logo as well as a reprint of the clap board. Yes, that was a very popular tote bag. Yeah. On a canvas tote bag. And we'll have

plenty more deliveries coming up in the future. This is the first phase, but we got some more stuff coming. We got big ambitions. We love Kinship Goods. They've been really fun to work with. Excited about this. So, excited about the more stuff coming. Oh yeah, for sure. We're going to try and really work towards throughout the year, trying to every few months, quarterly, whatever, let's not over promise, but try to be more regular with offering limited edition and just cool new products. Yes. Look, we, I just, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do some big emotional thing. 500 episodes. As we said, the Joker episode was almost exactly five years ago. Around that time, we decided we wanted to go independent, stake out on our own, give

this a shot, and some things happened in the world. Basically, immediately concurrent with that decision. And the whole process of us figuring out how to make the show independently became difficult. And for a long time, it was just like, just figuring out how to make the show independently became difficult and and for a long time It was just like just figuring out enough to keep the show coming out every week to keep it afloat all these things And there's been a lot of trial and error and it feels like we after having some time to reset Have done some restratizing that I think is gonna be really good for the future of the podcast and will be reflected in things like the merch and a little more intentionality

and regularity of things. And I think for the 10th anniversary, not to call shots before we have them, but that we're talking about some cool collaborations, some things that might happen to celebrate the 10th anniversary that hopefully are exciting to people who care about the show. I hope so. I love you guys. Ben has to sneeze. I'm trying to hold it. You guys too, and please keep listening to our show.

I have three children now and I need, you know, the support. Let's not stress them out, but we... Oh, maybe let's put a little stress on them, actually. Let's stress them out. Your support is beyond appreciated. It's very much so. It is incredible the way we've been able to grow this thing and grow it to something that has been able

to allow us to hire our friends and work with more and more people and bring more people into the family of the show. And it's wild. I look back and it still kind of boggles the mind. We got good stuff coming up in 2025. We got fun stuff coming. I think, look, I don't think anyone could possibly guess

what's coming up in 2025. People haven't the faintest clue But we have stuff on the schedule that I think is like good shit Conceptualizing March Madness excited about everything David needs some sleep. Oh, sure. What am I gonna do? You know, who do you think sleeps better at this point? You were the twins. I sleep better than the twins Okay, that's what I was I was guessing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah any other news No, cool good rich good rich 500 more episode. Yeah, I'm fucking call. Let's call it. Yeah, it's one. What should we do for 1000?

Joker 3. Yeah, it comes back. It comes back. Yeah Do you agree with me though that this will be like, maybe an end to automatic sequels? Combined with the Marvels? I love that idea. Of like, right, them being like, I don't care if your movie was the biggest movie of the year, I am not sold on just letting you

do another one for whatever you want. We've talked about another Blank Sheck history thing, but like Timberland's Plan of the Apes being such a big hit and everyone being like, we know we can't make another one, that people will reject it. And then it feels like the studios lost sight of that. And for a while it would work and they could trick people into coming back to sequels to movies they hate or just didn't really love. And it feels like, much like Spielberg and Lucas predicted

in that fucking interview years ago. Where these tentacles are going to start collapsing and everyone's going to have to rethink the whole business model. in that fucking interview years ago. Yep. Where there were like these tentacles are gonna start collapsing. And everyone's gonna have to rethink the whole business model. Joker 2 bombing at this level, I think is good for film. Yes, it is a profound and necessary rejection

from audiences. Not in like a vindictive way where we feel validated that the sequel movie we didn't like is a bomb. Let's take a new approach, guys. Yes, yeah. And if you don't like it, grab yourself. Some blank check merchant kinship goods, a law hammer. Is that what they're called?

A law hammer, a gavel grab a gavel. Now they're called law hammers. And by the way, blank check branded law hammers coming to kinship good in 2025 and bonk your ass. Yeah. You don't like it. He bonks the judge, but then it's a dream, so who cares? But isn't it a reference to something, or is that Harley that carries the mallet? She often will carry a mallet, but Justin, I think more, no, does she do it in the cartoons too?

Both. Yeah. Yeah. It was another thing that he kisses Katherine Keener twice, that it feels like it's a double beat, where he was just like, I don't know. Where does this scene go? I don't know. Let's put in both times. This movie's so fucking sloppy. Yeah. Thank you all for listening Yes, please remember to rate review and subscribe Yeah, thank you to Marie Barty for helping to produce the show and being here for the good chunk of the episode

Thank you to AJ McKeon for our editing being our production coordinator to AJ McKeon for our editing, being our production coordinator, Liam Montgomery, the great American novel, for our theme song, Joe Boe and Pat Reynolds for our artwork, JJ Birch for researching the book of law. He was on his own private research project trying to figure out whether or not the Joker was guilty and he's built a compelling case that in fact the Joker did murder the guy that he murdered on camera. I don't know where I'm going with this. Tune in next week for... Lost Highway with David Lowery. Great episode.

Return to the show. Great episode. Back to Lynch, writing us out through the rest of the year. Patreon finishing up. Tabletop Games with David's beloved Dungeons and Dragons, Honor Among Thieves. Absolutely. As represented by action figures on his desk. It's a fun one.

It's a fun one. Yeah. Having a great time. Yeah having a great time Yeah, and as always should we announce though now? Oh wait, or should we just tell them? Let's just say it Okay, next patreon series Andrew Lloyd Webber, baby. Yep for musicals that are filmed like music star yes Evita Phantom of the Opera and we're ending the year on cats. And cats. Cats, baby. Cats, cats! It's gonna be good.

And as always, it is worth calling out that both Joker Folly Adur and Goodrich end with covers of Daniel Johnson's True Love Will Find You in the End. These two movies both end with the same fucking song. At very different interpretation. Yeah, to different effect. At very different meanings. Yeah.