Blank Check with Griffin & David - Judging The Judge

Episode Date: June 8, 2015

One year ago acclaimed actors Robert Downey Jr. and Robert Duvall appeared together in the film The Judge. The movie is about a big city lawyer returning to his childhood home where his father, the town’s judge, is suspected of killing someone after running them over. It was directed by David Dobkin, was the first feature release from “Team Downey,” Robert and wife Susan’s production company AND Duvall even received a Oscar nomination for best supporting actor. It must be great. No it’s a steaming pile of garbage. You the fans did not ask for it, but in this week’s special episode hosts Griffin and David judged the Judge. Together, they discuss at length the trajectory of RDJ’s career and what lead him to turn down roles in Gravity, Oz the Great and Powerful and Inherent Vice to produce and star in the Judge, why Dobkin thinks he’s funny and why possible incest is always a great sign for drama. Music courtesy of "Night Court Theme" by Jack Elliott

Judge, judge, judge, judge. Judge, judge, judge, judge, judge. I'm Bob Duvall! I'm the judge! Judge. Here's Downey Jr. He's my son. We fight a lot. Junior. He's my son.

We fight a lot. He used to smoke pot. And now he makes out with his daughter and wipes shit off my legs. Judge in the judge. Judge. Court is in order. My friends. Order.

Come to order. Come to order. All rise. All rise for Judging the Judge. This is episode one of Judging. Episode one of one. Episode one of one. This, of course, is Griffin and David Presents,

what has now been revealed American Horror Story style to be an anthology series. This is a real, this is an American Horror Story, what we're doing tonight. This is American Horror Story colon The Judge. This is a real, this is an American horror story, what we're doing tonight. This is American horror story colon The Judge. This is Judging the Judge. We're going to discuss the movie The Judge. I'm Griffin Newman.

I'm David Sims. So this was, you know, we did 10 episodes, 11 if you count the bonus, the commentary episode, which thank you to everyone who listened. I have no idea why. Have you listened yet? Have you listened back? I tried. It was so, so trying.

Listening to us just sort of ramble to each other in a hot room. Yeah, there's a point where you try to get me to tell you how much money I'm making. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. For like 15 minutes. I was like, come on, come on. How much money do you make? It's a terrible piece of content. That was great.

That was one of my better ideas. Go on. What are you making? What are you making weekly? Thank you to everyone who listened and hashtagged in. I have no idea why. You're all crazy. A funny sidebar story.

I had a comedy show last night. Yep. And guess who came, was in the audience. Robert Duvall. My old friend Molly from middle school. All right. And in one of my jokes, I invoked the name of someone else who went to middle school with. And she was like, that was really funny when you used her name.

And I was like, thank you. And she's like, thank God you don't make any jokes about me. And I was like, well, don't listen to episode 11. Poor Molly. Now I feel bad. Molly of Cody and Molly fame. And how's she doing? She's doing great.

That's good. She's my oldest friend. I haven't seen her in a while, but I've known her since I was like two or three. You doxed her, as they say, on that episode. No last name. For all you know, it's Molly Sims, your sister. Isn't Molly Sims like an actress? Yeah, a model.

Was she the one who was on Las Vegas? Yes. We're clearly avoiding talking about the movie that we've selected today for obvious reasons. That you selected. I'm going to say that you selected because I had never seen this film before. Fans demanded it. You remember all those emails we got. Fans demanded it.

That's true. We were inundated. It's not like I just pushed this thing up a hill. People wanted it so badly. Star Wars Episode I, one of the 10 highest grossing films of all time. What do you follow that up with? The Judge? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oscar nominated, two hour, 22 minute drama from 2014. Yeah. David Dobkins, The Judge. Nominated for one Academy Award. One Academy Award. Which we'll get to. Oh yeah, we'll get there. We, you know, recently discovered that there was a sequel to Star Wars, episode two.

So judging The Judge was- I keep forgetting about it. I know. Attack of the Clones. Attack of the Clones. Attack of the Clones. That's next week, guys. That's next week. You guys want about it. Attack of the Clones. That's next week, guys. You guys want to hear about Attack of the Clones? Tune in next week. Now you're stuck with us talking about The Judge. We're going to do

10 episodes on The Judge and now it's just one because we've got to get to Attack of the Clones. We did have 10 episodes planned. There's enough time in The Judge to do 10 episodes worth. I don't know about material, but there is time, literal time in this movie. Yeah, my greater concern is we only have so many listeners we can afford to hemorrhage per episode.

Yeah, that's very true. Can you imagine? If we do Judging the Judge, every episode we'll lose another 15 loyal listeners. Yeah, right. Because the commentary already, that already cut into things, I bet. So it would leave us with negative 2,000 listeners. We'd be paying robots to listen to our show. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. In the end zone. Okay. The judge. El judge. El judge. Judging the judge. So yeah, we said, how did we get on the judge?

Is it just because I made a Robert Duvall joke in the first episode of this podcast? I think so. And I was like, you've got to see this fucking movie. It's insane. You don't understand how crazy it is. Just to start, the judge? Is it just because I made a Robert Duvall joke in the first episode of this podcast? I think so. And I was like, you've got to see this fucking movie. It's insane. You don't understand how crazy it is. Just to start, the judge,

Robert Downey Jr. is one of my favorite actors. I have a huge soft spot for him. Same here. Always have. Same here. I think,

when I was a kid and he was on Ally McBeal, I just loved him. I'm going to eat a bagel while you say this. Yeah, go right ahead. Just unwrap it as much as possible right next to the microphone. Tell me about your love of Bobby Deming. I love loved him. I'm going to eat a bagel while you say this. Yeah, go right ahead. Just unwrap it as much as possible right next to the microphone.

Tell me about your love of Bobby Downey Jr. I love RDJ. Love RDJ. And I am a film and television critic for The Atlantic. I am invited to press screenings of all major releases. I was invited to see The Judge. Robert Downey Jr. is the star of it. And he never makes movies anymore.

He makes Marvel movies and, like, nothing else, basically. I check that the running time is an hour and, sorry, is 145 minutes, basically, and I refuse to go. So that was my experience of the judge before last night. You are covered in scallion cream cheese right now. It's disgusting. My mustache has made my love of bagels and cream cheese very difficult. Because now I just always got, it looks like I got semen in my face. Griffin has a big bushy mustache for the role he's currently playing on HBO's Rock and Roll.

Salary undisclosed. I had a similar experience too. I love Robert Downey Jr. Love him. When did you fall in love with Robert? I really do think it was Ally McBeal for me. Because I was a little too young for his first wave. Yeah, no, the moment I remember really falling in love with him was weirdly,

because it's a small part, but Bowfinger. Oh, he's great in Bowfinger. Ah, that's true. That's when he was mired in the drug use and the personal problems, like Bowfinger, Wonder Boys. He's giving these really fun, supporting performances, but he's just not figured his life out yet. Putting a lot of spice on the side dish, you know? I loved him in Bowfinger, too. I loved that movie. Yeah, I just remember, because he was so much a part of the news, and I was a kid who wants to know the fucking pop culture stuff and make easy jokes about it.

Yeah, me too. So like the meme was just like this guy's a disaster. He's going to die. He's showing up on lawns. He's doing crazy shit, whatever. Right. And I remember seeing him in that movie and like being prepared to like make jokes about how bad and drugged out he was to get easy laughs out of my parents. And I was like, oh, this guy's really good. He is really good.

I can't reconcile that with the cultural narrative that is being presented right now. He was someone, I think, and still is, someone with just such bottomless charm on screen that he just holds the camera really well no matter what crappy part or what crappy lines he has. And that's even at his lowest point. I remember his Inside the Actors Studio episode, he talks very openly about the waves of his addiction and how it coincides with certain things. When's that episode?

When in his career is that episode? I want to say it's maybe like Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. Okay. Which is a masterpiece and one of my favorite movies. On the mend, but hasn't become arguably the biggest movie star in the world. No, yeah, for sure. If you ask me, I would say- I think he's probably the highest paid movie star right now.

Yeah, and I think the most bankable. If you ask me to anoint the king and queen of Hollywood- The judge didn't make a lot of money. Who? But the judge didn't do very well. Well, this is what we're getting to. Yeah, yeah, go on. If you ask me, the king and queen of Hollywood are Downey Jr. and Jennifer Lawrence.

I feel like they're the two people who are at the top of the heap, you know? Right now. Really have the public in the palm of their hands. They've got big franchises. Yeah, you're talking people. They're in franchises. They're big movie stars. And very likable.

Yeah, but also respected serious actors. Not just movie stars. It's like Lawrence has an Oscar. And this is getting to our big point here. Right. Danny Jr. Danny Jr. nominated twice. Is viewed as an inevitable.

You think so? I think. If he made some more movies he would yeah his first oscar comes when he's what 24 his nomination you mean for a chaplain yes his first nomination he's very young yeah in chaplain and and that's when he was being touted as this like whoa look at this guy he's the next big guy right yeah yeah um what's he you know he's in like air america he's in less than zero He did the whole run of teen films. He's got a supporting part in Weird Science.

He was on SNL for a season. Yeah. So, I mean, quick backstory. But his father is like a notorious sort of countercultural gonzo comedy satire filmmaker. Everyone should see Putney Swope. It's an incredible movie. My dad's favorite movie of all time. It's such a good movie. It's an awesome, awesome movie.

And he's a great guy. He's also out of his mind. It's such a good movie. It's an awesome awesome movie and he's a great guy. He's also out of his mind. Notoriously a lunatic. Right? And Diane Jr. was the product of that man and a French ingenue who he fell in love with and cast in a lot of his films. And grew up in a household where he was surrounded by all these sort of like

counter-cultural fuck the man we don't need to play by the rules. I'm sounding like such a grandpa describing this. Artists, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. In California, surrounded by these sorts of people who are obsessive in their work. Yeah.

I think he was kind of ignored a little. Sure. And I think he started using drugs at a very young age, he said. His first on-screen performance, I think, was in Robert Downey Sr.'s Pound when he was like four or five. And his first line is what you don't think I got hair on my balls? And it was like I think that says a lot about his relationship to his father is like he had to

be in his dad's movie saying a thing that was inappropriate for a kid like that. I think he said he first smoked pot when he was like seven or eight. Yeah it's something like that. It was just like lying around. I think that was the. Yeah he was like I think he said some guy literally handed it to him like, do you want to try this? And so like he was very much

the product of his surroundings. All this stuff was available to him. He saw all these adults using these things in recreational ways, you know, inhibiting, unleashing the full potential of their creativity. There was no stigma around doing this and he very much was a gateway drug for him and he very quickly went fully spinning out of control.

So even by the time he's like 17, 18, and he's in Lesson Zero, which was a big performance that put him on the map, playing a dude who is— And the pickup artist, same year. Yeah, is like a brilliant, charismatic, wise beyond his years young man who is clearly falling prey to his own self-destructive vices, you know, who may not make it. There's already life imitating art and vice versa. I think there's a narrative in Hollywood of like, oh, but this is where does it end? Where does it begin? He's the second youngest cast member on SNL ever.

He and Anthony Michael Hall get on. He does one season on the show. And then, yeah, he's pretty quickly a movie star, Air America, like I said. Soap Dish, Chaplin, Short Cuts, you know, Natural Born Killers. He's doing an Altman film and everything. But Chaplin's a big one. You're playing Charlie Chaplin. That's a huge...

And he kicks ass in that movie. That's a tall order. You're gonna play Charlie Chaplin. You're gonna have to recreate Chaplin a bit. He does it beautifully. I mean, the physicality is insane in that movie. It's not a good movie, though. It's not a good movie. It's a very aggressively mediocre movie. Yeah, I mean, it's Richard Attenberg kind of, yeah. It's super bland.

Yeah. But he gives a great performance, and everyone goes, Jesus Christ, how did this kid pull it off? Right, yeah. He's the guy. He's the guy of the generation. Right. And proceeds to, you know, they kind of try to push him into a movie star.

He does some romantic comedies. None of them really work. He's falling more and more prey to his addiction issues. Home for the holidays, yeah. Yeah, Home for the Holidays, which on that episode of Inside the Actor's Studio, he refers to as the most relaxed performance in the history of film because of how much heroin he was on. Jesus. It's crazy he's still alive.

And he said, like, Jodie Foster would come in and be like, I know that no one calls you out on this because you're still able to deliver but I will not let you behave this way. Wow. And he's like is it affecting my performance? And she's like no it's not. And he's like then what's the fucking problem? He sounds like a really nice guy too. Was really you know struggling. I really like Two Girls and a Guy too.

Remember that movie? It's not a good movie but it's kind of a fun movie. Jimmy Toback who's also out of his mind. The most Tobackean filmmaker. Do you know that James Toback in interviews will say, I think it's probably the most purely Tobackean of my films. Anyway, his career basically spirals for years and years and years. He keeps, like he's in U.S. Marshals.

He's in The Gingerbread Man. He keeps having these kind of cool supporting roles. But at the same time, he's out of his mind. Okay. He gets on Alan McBeal. It's supposed to be like, here's a saving grace. So he blew it as a movie star. At this point, doing TV is very much considered a lesser art form.

You don't cross the Real Grande line. If you punch up to TV, you don't get to go back down. You know? Yeah. And he goes back to TV. On the fourth season of Alan McBeal. This is not even like a, you know, he's dropping into an established show. But they tailor make this

role for him and he destroys it. Which is funny because again, he talks about it. He's like, I was just out of my mind. I don't know what I was doing. He has no memory of being good on that show. And it was supposed to be like he's going to prove himself. He's going to show up on time every day on a TV show, which is long hours, hard work. I know. I'm getting paid an undisclosed

amount to do it. You know, it's a very demanding situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's open end. You're going to do nine months a year, and then maybe then. Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah. And at the time, because a movie star had not gone down to TV, there weren't that many

instances of it. A lot of critics were like, this is the best performance in the history of television. Yeah, people were all over it. They were hyperbolic. I mean, he is good in it. A lot of critics were like, this is the best performance in the history of television. Yeah, people were all over it. They were hyperbolic. He is good in it. Yeah, but people were like, we've never seen this quality of work on television. He won a Golden Globe, he got nominated for an Emmy, yadda yadda yadda. Did a very nice job. And he's fired by the end of that season. Right, yeah. Because he can't fucking get it together.

He doesn't show up or whatever, and yeah, they fired him. Now there's a big turning point. Early, I think, the 2000s, 2002, 2003 maybe, Rob Dine Jr. is given a Hail Mary pass. Early, I think, the 2000s, 2002, 2003 maybe, Rob Dine Jr. is given a Hail Mary pass. He finally sobers up. Right. Gets it together.

And you can read all about that. I mean, I think he's talked about it a lot. We're not going to go into it. But yeah, he finally, I think he goes to rehab. It takes. He meets a woman, I think, who helps keep him on the straight and narrow. No, not yet? That's what I want to build up to here.

He gets on the straight and narrow first. He sort of finds new focuses in life, becomes very health-crazed spiritually. Right, makes the same detective. Yes. I think that's his first kind of like back-in-the-world movie. And that was Mel Gibson, a man who clearly has similar struggles. Went to bat for him. They had done Air America together.

And he said, no one else will hire you. No one else will insure you. Because that's the big thing with a movie. If you're going to be the lead character. Yes, he was uninsurable. They need to take out an insurance bond to prove that the actor is not going to die before you're filming. Because then you throw away the whole movie. Right.

Or in the case of Fast and Furious 7, you spend like an additional $80 million. Worth it. CGI. Worth every penny. Right. Now, they got that from- The insurance. Right.

But it was a belabored thing. He can't get insured. Mel Gibson puts up the insurance bond because he believes this guy needs a chance, but the movie doesn't do very well. It's not a bad movie, but- He's great. Have you seen the Gambon? Anyway, go on.

At this point- And he's in Gothica, same situation. Well, that's the one, David. Right. Gothica's weirdly the turning point, okay? Not a good movie. A terrible film. Also, I think he Gothica is weirdly the turning point, okay? Not a good movie. A terrible film. Also, I think he was also a struggle to ensure, right?

But that was his first big studio, sort of back on the straight and narrow. He has a small part. He fought really hard to get it. Right. On that film, there's a woman producing it whose last name I don't remember. Susan something. She marries him. She was Joel Silver, heavyweight Hollywood producer,

producer of the Die Hard films. The Matrix. Tons of others. Predator. Right. Tons of stuff. Hudsucker Proxy, one of my favorite films of all time. But he's mostly a big action director,

and he's starting to do more sort of horror. Producer. Yeah, sorry. More horror genre, a little bit of stuff when that's starting to hit big gothka Halle Berry put in they give him this small role the the legend goes that this woman Susan who was originally his assistant moves up to being a producer partner with him is on the set with him one day turns to Downey jr. and says I don't get it why aren't you the biggest star in the world right and he was like

well I thought I just struggled this and that. And she goes, but you got it together now. I mean, it feels like you really got it together. It's not a temporary thing. And he's like, I don't know how to do it. And she makes it her life's mission to make Robert Downey Jr. the star she believes he was always intended to be. They also fall in love. It's quite a story.

She becomes Susan Downey, which is why we don't remember her last name. Susan Downey PGA. She's in the credits of The Judge. Yeah. And she very quickly gets Joel Silver to- Is it Kiss Kiss Bang Bang? Yes, which is produced by Joel Silver, written by Shane Black, who wrote some of Joel Silver's biggest hits.

Wrote like Lethal Weapon. Lethal Weapon, all those, right. The Longest Good Night, yeah. Yeah. And so he gets in. That's a big thing because now he's the leading man in a film. It doesn't do tremendous business, but it's really well loved. It is a critical hit, and it is, yeah, it's basically a calling card.

It's like, hey, remember Robert Downey Jr.? He's so fucking charming. And he can carry this shit. He's so funny. He's so charming. He's so in control. I recently watched the movie for the 80th time, and it's incredible. Oozing star power.

And now we're in a slightly older Don Jr. He's a little salt and peppery, and he's showing the battle scars. He seems like a man who's been through some stuff, and it makes him more interesting. And he's playing a sort of career criminal who's now getting a second chance. He starts doing roles along those lines, like good night, good luck, and the guide to recognizing your saints in the scanner darkly, lines like good night good luck and the guide to recognizing your saints in the scanner darkly and zodiac these roles of slightly weathered guys who uh like are kind of clinging on a little bit you know like rather than uh sort of breezing through things he's using his life experience and my mouth

full of bagel of course to to tap into like a sort of previously unseen but also retaining his original like super charm. Yeah, and I would argue, to paraphrase F. Scott Fitzgerald, there's no second acts in American lives. Sure. He's playing characters who are struggling to define a second act, who want a second act. It's true.

Kiss, kiss, bang, bang. True to the shaggy dog. Just kidding. I haven't seen the shaggy dog. He's actually great in it. Okay. He's genuinely phenomenal in it. Right. He's genuinely phenomenal in it. Right.

But he's starting to establish a second act. Yeah. And it's like, maybe he's just going to be a really solid, you know, secondary actor in big movies. And then like indie. Family movies, dramas. And he'll be the lead. And he'll play it. And then, Jon Favreau.

Yeah, we kind of know the rest. Right. Yeah. Goes, this is the guy. Marvel goes, no way. It's not even a conversation. I wonder who else would have even been considered for Tony Stark. Because, like, do you know?

I know Sam Rockwell was very seriously talked about. That's interesting. He wouldn't be good. Not as good. No. There's some other people I forget. I love Sam Rockwell, but he's not. Sam Rockwell, I know, was very high up on the list, which is why they wrote him that part in the second one.

No, right. But when Robert Downey Jr. was cast as Iron Man, I was just instantly, especially because Iron Man is this character in the comics who has struggled with drinking and his excess, and you're like, oh yeah, that's exactly right, yes. And I have a very

distinct memory of my father saying, hey, did you hear that Robert Downey Jr. was playing, was it Iron Man? And I went, yeah, and he went, they're really Downey Jr. was playing Iron Man? And I went, yeah. And he went, they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel, huh? Wow. And my dad's assessment was, if that's the biggest guy they can get, the movie is a

predetermined flop. Right, whereas I think my assessment went, and I had heard Marvel making Iron Man. And also my dad didn't know who that character was. Who is this fucking... Yeah, no one heard of Iron Man. And I heard that and I was like, they made the creatively appropriate decision. That's crazy. Right.

I hope it doesn't blow up in their faces. You know, the approach for superhero movies has always been like, who's hot? Ben Affleck? Okay, he can be Daredevil. You know what I mean? Like, no thought of the character he might be playing. But yeah, Favreau goes to bat for him, sells him really hard because this is the only guy, he does like 20 screen tests and Marvel finally relents. He gets paid less than any other actor in the film.

Terrence Howard got three times as much as him. Terrence Howard was the highest paid actor in that movie. Which is why he didn't do the second movie because he then demanded the same proportionate raise for the second one and they were like, go suck two turds. Yeah. But he's back, baby. RDJ. RDJ.

And in a way that has, you know, rarely happens anymore. Overnight, over a weekend, he goes from, oh, that guy, Robert Downey Jr., who I've seen some stuff

over the years, who's in that movie, Iron Man, that looks cool, to like, America's favorite movie star. Overnight, he's undeniably

a huge A-list movie star. Let's not forget, the same year, he does have Tropic Thunder. Yes. He's the breakout of that movie. He gets an Oscar nomination for it. I mean,

it couldn't have played out any better. Yeah, and breakout of that movie he gets an Oscar nomination for it I mean it couldn't have played out any better yeah and then after that he basically doesn't make a ton of movies

he immediately vaults to Superstardom he makes The Soloist which I think he might have shot before that was in the can

that was originally supposed to come out before Iron Man they pushed it back so it could receive the bump of him being a bigger deal that movie's terrible

he's good in it it's a bad movie he does good work he's okay in it. He does good work. Sherlock Holmes, which is produced by the Silver Company.

This baby's so fucking good. The Silver Company and his wife, they said, now that you're a proven box office star, let's make a franchise for you where we

can benefit from it. Right. Two movies kill at the box office. Yep. So he's now like a franchise guy. Iron Man 2 is next.

I mean, massive. Terrible movie, but massive. Then Due Date. Which I love. I haven't seen it, honestly. I think it's a secret masterpiece. I'm not sure about that. I would love to do an episode about Due Date as well.

I think it's brilliant. But it did pretty well, Due Date. And then Sherlock Holmes 2, Avengers, Iron Man 3, The Judge. He literally just stops making movies that aren't Marvel movies. Right. So he only is pretty much doing his two franchises. From the moment after Iron Man comes out, because Soloist and Tropic Thunder were in the can. Right.

He experienced the boost from the two of them. But from the moment the movies he signs on to after that point are just Marvel movies, Sherlock Holmes, and the two exceptions, The Outliers, are Due Date and The Judge. Due Date is directed by Todd Phillips, coming straight off of The Hangover. He's very much in the get-out-of-jail-free card position we're talking about. And it's got Galifianakis right off The Hangover, too. And the interesting thesis question that Todd Phillips

said he was interested in making Due Date was, he went, it's so weird that Downey Jr. is now this beloved as an American star because he's so odd and he's so prickly that he went, I want to try to experiment with how far I can push Downey Jr. in a film and still have audiences like him.

And the whole movie is like an exercise in the subtext of the usual Downey Jr. performances because he was doing this very odd, playing dark characters, and suddenly those characters are dropped into big movies that kids love. And he's still like they play it as a little more fun. And if you really think about it, you're like this guy's a mess.

And Due Date is just acknowledging how much of a mess he is and being like you still like him? Do you still like him? And you do the whole time. It's a real test of him as a movie star. The movie does well financially. It's not liked critically. And I think that pushes him even further away from trying to experiment outside these things.

The Marvel movie's playing so well. At this point, he's 50 years old. There are only so many more years he's going to get to do this stuff. So I think there's this part of him that's like,

I became a movie star to this degree, very late, I want to ride this out as hard as I can, doing dramas. I can always go back and do that.

Was recently sort of lambasted in the press for saying he didn't want to make shitty indie movies anymore but but he did so many for so he did a lot and also i yeah i remember defending him to my boss when she was like this is rude and i'm like he knows he can't be on an indie movie like yeah he obviously operates under very strict sort of control of like i want to be in like a very uh comfortable hollywood environment when I'm making these movies because, like, that's the time when I am at my most kind of vulnerable. I really –

Yeah. Yeah, and it also is, like, a thing I think you can't speak to unless you've – you know, you've done the job. But the environment – I haven't done the job. The environment really – I'm not saying you can't speak to it. No, no, no. I immediately understood everything he was saying. Oh, sure.

As someone who mostly does tiny, shitty indies by people who are unprofessional and don't know what they're doing, I'm happy to do any work I can. But I also see the couple of times I've gotten to be on bigger stuff,

how much easier it is to work when everything is planned out properly and the circumstances are correct and there's room for error to be corrected rather than just like, oh, can you also hold this light while you're in the scene because our light guy has pneumonia?

Okay, but the judge. The judge. Our key question that we're trying to answer today. This episode's going to be six and a half hours long. Our key question that we're going to answer today, now that we've set up the Downey Jr. narrative. Sure. Why would he make the judge?

Why did he make the judge? This is his first he make the judge? Why did he make the judge? This is his first film as a producer. He sets up a first look deal at Warner Brothers to bring them properties. Yeah. He drops out of a bunch of big movies.

He was going to be the Clooney part in Gravity. And he was going to be the Franco part in Oz the Great and Powerful. He was going to play Joaquin Phoenix's role in Inherent Vice.

In Inherent Vice. Oh, he would have been so good. So that's an interesting mix of two guaranteed blockbusters. I wish he had made all of those movies. One guaranteed classic from an auteur. Yeah. And he's an interesting mix of like two guaranteed blockbusters. I wish he had made all of those movies. One guaranteed classic from an auteur.

You know? Yeah. And he drops out of all of them. He's really just sticking to the Marvel thing. He's getting Warner Brothers to acquire properties

for him. Hey, I want this book. I want to reboot this thing. Yeah. He wants to make the Black Mirror episode about the memory implant. The thing that,

you know, the camera in your brain. And there was some old series of detective novels that he wants to make as a franchise. RDJ, do this shit. Do it. He's bringing tons of properties to them. Yeah. But none of them are getting off the gate.

Not because he doesn't want to. But I think it's him choosing, I really want to do this. And his first step forward, his first film as a producer with his new Team Downey banner is The Judge. Why would a man who could get any film he wants made at this point in time make this film yeah it is like the the crappiest like 1994 like kind of oscar baity how do you how else do you describe the judge it's just like it's like treacle it's like toxic treacle it's it's a ham-fisted, sort of like cliche-laden, overwrought, desperate- Overlong, overcast, overacted, overdirected.

Overbageled. Desperate plea- Underlit. For Oscars, right? Yeah. Seemingly the only reason, because look, maybe he thought my power is so big right now I want to test it if I can make mass audiences flock to an adult character drama, which is not a bankable genre anymore. Sure. At least people keep telling me.

And I think, did the judge do it? I actually have no idea how it did. It didn't do very well. No? I mean, I don't think it lost money. I think it was made for a budget. He did it for less than his usual films. Yeah, right.

But still wasn't. He's making 50 million bucks on every Avengers movie. He doesn't really. It was not a hit by any conventional metric. You know, I don't think it was a big, like, loss leap for them. It came out in, what, like, September or October? Yeah. Yeah.

And it did, you know, boring business. It made $47 million domestically on a $50 million budget. And it made 83 worldwide, which is pretty bad. Like, it made almost no money outside of the U.S. I'd argue, I mean, those numbers are astounding for how bad the film is and how uninteresting it looked. You're saying it's amazing the movie made that much money? Yeah.

It opened at number five, though, at the box office. That's pretty terrible. Yeah. In October. Agreed, agreed. But we were talking earlier about like- Behind Dracula Untold, which is not a film that actually existed and no one saw it. I've seen it.

How was it? Phenomenal. Charles Dance deserves an Oscar nomination. Behind the second weekend of Annabelle, this movie opened. Yeah. We were talking right before this about Men, Women, and Children, which was your least favorite film of last year, the same year that The Judge came out.

I really despise that movie. That film features Adam Sandler, Jennifer Garner, a couple of big deal movie stars, Ansel Elgort, who is popping in a major way because of Falling Our Stars, Jason Reitman, director nominated for four Academy Awards across his first three films. Is that right? I mean, between producing, writing, and directing. Yeah, you're right.

Nominated for directing Juno and then three nominations for Up in the Air. Yeah. You might have gotten a screenplay done for Thank You for the Smoking, too, maybe? No, he didn't? Okay. But four nominations, and that film ended up at, I think, $840,000. Sure, right. Nobody saw that movie. Under a million dollars.

Right. Most people don't even know it existed. Yeah. Worldwide negligible. Yeah. I'm saying Judge is a similar level of overly earnest big stars doing a Vandy Project catastrophe. I know what you mean. I know what you mean.

Yeah. I know what you're saying. And for the judge to make $80 million is not something that's going to make Warner Brothers or Robert Downey Jr. happy. But in hindsight, it's like it is a test of his star power that he even got that much out of it. And also, I'm sure it's the kind of movie that people rent, right? Like, isn't that the idea? Yeah, it's probably doing crazy numbers on that. It's like sort of a, yeah, it's a cable movie.

Yeah. But why would he do this film? Because I genuinely think Robert Downey Jr. thought he was going to win the Oscar. You think so? You think Robert Downey Jr. thought he was going to win the Oscar. You think so? You think Robert Downey Jr. read this script? That's the question I now pose 40 minutes into this episode to try to answer. I think it's 30, but yeah. To try to answer.

I think, and we'll debate this and track it with an answer, did Robert Downey Jr. think he was going to win the Oscar? Because what other reason would he have to make this film? He produced it? No, I know what you're saying. He started it. He had two chances to win an Oscar, and I think he thought it was it. There was an interview he did a couple years ago where they talked to him about, does he

feel bad that he's been spending all this time doing these blockbusters, he's been seeing on serious parts. He's not going to win an Oscar for Iron Man. Iron Man. As much as he might deserve it. And he went, well, for me, it's just inevitable. And they went, really? And he went, look, I've been doing this for so long.

I know what I'm doing. I know what I'm capable of. I'm doing these parts right now, but it's not something that I'm worried about because I'm very confident that someday I will get the part that will show everyone. And it's just a matter of time. Okay. So you think he is literally scanning the horizon for this part? Yeah. I think he goes, okay, I'm going to see the script where I know I can knock it out of the park. I have immense visibility now, so no one's going to ignore the movie. If I'm delivering and the movie works,

I will get nominated and I can win. This movie is so bad, though. Horrendous, but that's why he made it. So let's talk about the movie. It's so bad. It's so bad! It begins with him pissing on a man. This is the opening of the film. This film is ostensibly a drama. Not a comedy. No, it's a drama.

It has maybe 3% comedic elements, and all of them are misjudged. Yes, misjudging the judged. Misjudging the judged. And all of them are basically just Robert Downey Jr. kind of doing his like, you know, funny guy thing. Like, anytime the movie's like a little bit light, it's him trying to be, you know,

it's just Robert Downey Jr. Go on. Or potentially fucking his daughter, which we'll get to in a second. Oh, we'll get there. But yeah, the opening of the film, David Krumholz, the great Dave Krumholz. Yeah, the great, ever chubbier David Krumholz. Looking real bloated. Yeah, they're like, I don't know if they dressed him in like a suit that was like eight times too big or something, but David Krumholz looks terrible. I would sue my agent.

I think they stuck a bicycle pump in his neck before each take and gave it a few little up and downs. I love David Krumholz, by the way. He's great. But the opening scene, they are rival lawyers. Is it in LA? I can't even tell. Is it Chicago? I think so.

One of those places that's so superficial where it's all fucking live, live, live, money, money, money, business, business. He lives in Highland Park. He says that to Krumholz because he's like, I have a fucking perfect wife and I fuck my wife and she looks incredible. And I think it is Chicago. The idea is that he is a morally bankrupt, sort of duplicitous, success-driven lawyer who takes on cases, defending clients who he knows are guilty. Right. He's just a bottom line lawyer. He doesn't care about the, whatever,

what's the word? Justice. Yes, he's really manipulating morality around. It's so lame though. Who gives a shit? Who gives a shit? And the movie spends no time on it too. It's like, how do you feel like your clients are always guilty?

And he's like, I feel fine. Drive my car and fuck my whatever. Yeah, and are we supposed to be like, oh God, this guy's really like at the bottom of his, he really needs to figure it out.

He's such denial. He never really seems that stressed out about his life. No, he seems like he's killing it the whole movie. He seems totally level.

In this opening scene, he pisses all over David Krumholz. David Krumholz is like, do you really think this man's innocent? And he's like, innocent men can't afford me. Which, like, that also doesn't make any sense. Sure they can! I mean, does he just mean, like, evil people, I guess, are rich? Or are they willing to spend the money

because they know he's the only one who will. Who can get them off, right. He's this renowned trial lawyer. He's great on the cross-exam. Like, right, you know, that's... He's at a urinal and he turns around to say something to him and literally just literally just pees yeah krumholtz is complaining about something minute three of the movie it's a drama rardine jr an adult male is peeing on another adult male and i was like oh sorry did i pee on you no that was a mistake insert shot of urine on shoes on like polished yeah black dress shoes right and, right, right. And you're like, already, what the fuck is this movie?

Because it's shot in this very Tony way. It's shot by Janusz Kaminski, who's a great director of photography. Steven Spielberg's regular. Has shot every Steven Spielberg film. It's quite nicely shot. I mean, the man's a master of light and shadow, and it's used all the time. It's always these pools of light coming through the window.

It's dramatic. It's great, but I have no idea why he's, you know. If he and director David Dobkin, if they had a conversation, I don't know what it was because I don't know why he's shooting the movie so seriously. And quick sidebar, David Dobkin had this idea apparently based on experiences with his father in elder years. Is that right? Pitched it to some writers. They wrote it for him. Pitched it basically

to the writer of Gran Torino. Uh-huh. Sent it around. Downey Jr. saw it, I think connected with the Oscar potential and we'll get in a second maybe perhaps some

of the father issues in the film. Sure, yeah, maybe. And the past demons that the character is dealing with and brings it to Warner Brothers. They give it a go ahead.

Dobkin's filmography up until that point is starts out with Clay Pigeons. Yeah, in the sort of comedy drama with Vince Vaughn. It's alright. It's fine. Yeah. Then he makes Shanghai Nights. The sequel to Shanghai

Noon. Which is a masterpiece. Shanghai Noon's great. Yeah. Nights is a catastrophe. Not so good. It's a super tonally misjudged film. When Shanghai Noon gets it just right. Yeah, Shanghai Noon's great. And Shanghai Noon, for perspective, is from the director who then went on to direct Failure to Launch and Marmaduke. So it's not like this is like, oh, he's got to take the reins over.

It's a cute script and good chemistry between them. We didn't need another Shanghai Noon, really, anyway. I did. I was really asking for it. I would pray for it every night before I went to sleep. That's fair enough. Why can't this franchise be Rush Hour 2? That's what I would say.

Rush Hour comma T-O-O. Then he makes Wedding Crashers. Sure, which is a monster hit even though it's a garbage, overlong, bloated, misogynistic. Fucking come at me, bro. It's the worst. It's not funny. Wedding Crashers is terrible. And it's ugly.

It's ugly. It hates gay people. It hates women. It only the worst. It's not funny. Wedding crashes are terrible. And it's ugly. It's ugly. It hates gay people. It hates women. It only likes cool bros who fuck chicks. Pretty much. And it's not funny, and it's way too long. It's also like two hours and 15 minutes. It is very well shot, though.

I will say it looks nice. Interesting. I don't really remember how well it is. It's very well shot. Yeah. Then he makes- Fred Claus. I mean, a catastrophe.

Yep. Vince Vaughn is Santa Claus' brother Santa Claus played by Paul Giamatti The Jewiest Goy In the world I know he's not

But you can't No yeah sure I know what you're saying It's the most Jewish Well I think they were just like We need a fat guy Who's a fat guy And like sideways

I'm trying to bring Presents to the kids Like he's It's such an erotic Santa Claus Sure Ludacris plays an elf. They filmed a little person.

Yeah, they filmed a little person and then superimposed Ludacris' head so his neck never moves properly. John Michael Higgins plays another elf, has a love affair with Elizabeth Banks. Murderers are of talent. Kathy Bates Academy Award winner. He gets good actors. Miranda Richardson Academy Award nominee. Okay, moving on from Fred Claus.

Did he make anything between Fred Claus? He made The Change-Up which also blows so hard. Another movie about peeing where Jason Bateman and Ryan Reynolds pee into a fountain

and lightning hits it and they change bodies. And then he makes The Judge. So at this point his filmography is mostly ugly misjudged comedies that have regressive social politics.

Fair enough. And relationships in them. And he goes, hey, this is my personal film. Right. I'm ready to make a Tony drama with Janusz Kaminski and heavy-duty big-deal actors, and page four is peeing on another guy. Like, immediately, he's up to his old fucking shenanigans. He loves peeing.

It raises the question, would the judge be better if it was more of a comedy? And I don't think there's a version of the judge that's good, but I wonder if the judge would be better if it took itself less seriously. There is no doubt that the judge would be better if you cut literally 45 minutes from it and lightened it up. Like, way up. up like way up you know if you made the relationship between him and his dad similarly strained but in a more kind of like hey fuck you you know like not this like they're so mad at each other and you do not know why like i know you kind of are told why but like it doesn't make any sense and if robert dungeon was just allowed to be funny the whole time, and Duvall was allowed to be funnier, and there was no cancer, you've got to get rid of the cancer. Uh-huh.

Then the movie would be okay. It's also that thing you're saying- And also way more of the, did I fuck my daughter? Yeah. Way more of that. Okay, so let's get to this. He's doing the case, and then he gets a call. Yeah, he gets a call in the middle of the case.

His mother dies. He goes, can we postpone this trial? Right, yeah. Which would never happen. Would never happen. Never, ever happen. Never happen. No, yeah, a call. In the middle of the case, his mother dies. He goes, can we confirm this trial? Which would never happen. Would never happen. Never, ever happen. No, yeah, that whole thing is weird. But he's so slick. He's such a fucking snake oil salesman. He can charm anybody. Even if they hate him, they go, oh, goddammit, you got it your way.

Goes back home to his daughter. He's divorced. Oh, yeah, he goes to his, or he's getting divorced. He's married to Sarah Lancaster. Yeah. Who's, like, complaining that she's sad. I don't know. But she had an affair or something. Like, she's not allowed to Sarah Lancaster. Yeah. Who's like complaining that she's sad. I don't know. But she had an affair or something. Like she's not allowed to be particularly sympathetic.

No, she's got a ton of money in their house. It's unbelievable. Yeah. And he's like, I'm taking my fucking daughter. You know, like, and she's like, I'm sad. You suck. You're a shitty. You work all the time or whatever.

You know, like we're getting a little more like rote exposition. Like this guy's kind of, you know, divorced from everything but his job. But the immediate takeaway from the scene of him, he and his ex-wife interacting is that both of them are garbage people. Oh yeah, they're terrible. Both of them are piece of garbage human beings. And they have this awful daughter. Oh my god. A Jake Lloyd level

performance. You can hear the dad reading the lines to her. It's like she's supposed to be like precocious and level-headed or whatever and you dad reading the lines to her. She's supposed to be precocious and level-headed or whatever, and you just want to strangle her. It's awful. But big information revealed is that she did not know that her grandfather was alive.

He goes, I'm going back home to see dad. She's like, isn't he dead? And he's like, no, he's just dead to me. He's dead to me. He's from some podunk town in Indiana where his dad is the local judge. Yeah. Who everyone calls. The judge?

Yep. So he drives back. Everyone literally just calls him Judge. Judge. Like, how you doing, Judge? Yeah. My name is Judge. I can't stop thinking about it.

I know, the whole time. Yeah, I know. It would have improved the film. Yeah. Every time they open a magazine in the film. Yeah, my name is Judge. He goes to this town. He's got a nice car.

He's like, oh, boy, god damn it. He's making a bunch of snarky asides to himself under his breath while he's driving through the town. Right. Back in hell. This and that. Goes home. He gives some monologue. Everyone wants to leave.

No one wants to stay. Whatever. Funeral service. Funeral. His mom is dead. His dad, played by the legendary Bob Duvall. Sure. Is immediately very cold.

Right. He's basically like, thanks for coming. See you later. How you doing? And he's got two brothers. He's got a brother played by Jeremy Strong who's like maybe a little slow. He's always got a Super 8 camera. He seems a little touched.

He's got, I'd say, like a Forrest Gump, Rain Man disease. Yeah, kind of maybe some sort of, it's completely unspecified. Like there's no investment in like what's going on with him, but he's like, he's a little funny. I would call it, the term I'd like to coin now

is convenient retardation. It's so fucking funny. It's just enough retardation to get weird things happening on screen, but also not too much that he's not functional. And then you've got Vincent D'Onofrio, who I think gives the best performance in the film. I'm going to counter that with a performance I want to get to in a second.

Okay, fine. But I think D'Onofrio's good as his kind of washed up, fat, former athlete of a brother who I think was maybe the golden boy, but now he's... Yeah, and just feels like a sad, broken man, but with a really good, big heart. Yeah, I guess so. He's really not a character. No, but he's trying to hold the family boy, but now he's... Yeah, and just feels like a sad, broken man, but with a really good, big heart. Yeah, I guess so. He's really not a character. No, but he's trying to hold the family together, right? They go to this funeral, everything's tense.

Sidebar for D'Onofrio here for a second, because it's the thing that you and I are both obsessed with. Oh, yeah, sure. We both love credits. Yeah. We love... Because it's getting to the politics of... Yeah, yeah, billing. Who gets what bank, billing, what ranking, who's above the title,

who gets separate title cards in the trailer. All that sort of stuff is fascinating to us. We are obsessed with the and or the with. The with, featuring. Yeah, those things. Because all those are intense negotiations that you go through to get those kinds of things. And so we love breaking those down. The judge has one of the most tragic occurrences that can happen in the world of separate title cards and trailers.

The judge is really trying to present himself as an Oscar movie. In the trailer. In the trailer. Academy Award nominee Robert Downey Jr. Sure. And they show the shot of Robert Downey Jr. Yep. Academy Award nominee. Robert Duvall.

And they show him and he's looking stern. No, no. Winner. Winner. Winner. Winner. Two time winner. Yeah.

One time. Just the one time? Tender Mercies. That's it. Yeah. He didn't win for The Apostner. Two-time winner. One time. Just the one time? Tender Mercies. That's it. He didn't win for The Apostle. He's looking stern. Academy Award nominee Vera Farmiga. She's smiling.

Half smirk. Sure, yeah. Vincent D'Onofrio. And Academy Award nominee, winner, Billy Bob Thornton. So he's just sandwiched in there. There are five names and he's the only one who gets nothing. His title card looks so naked. It's so sad. There's so little

text on it. If I'm his agent, I'm like, no, take him out of the trailer. I'd rather he's not in it. You're making him look shitty. And he's a good actor. He's a great actor. You don't want to put Emmy nominee in there? He might be a Golden Globe nominee or something. Yeah, for Law and Order, he must

at some point. But he's giving a great performance. It's nice that they put him single title. Yeah, no, he's pretty good in it. They go to the funeral. Everything's kind of whatever. Dad, he's acting irascible. He gets in the car.

He drives off. Yeah, right. If they get in a fight, does he drink at that point or has he not had a drink at that point? No, he's not drinking, but Downey saw him forget someone's name, his bailiff's name, in court. And so Downey's like, is something up with him? Interesting. And yeah, we're told Duvall's characters are a recovered alcoholic, he insists. And so Downey thinks he might be drinking again.

Right. And he drives off in a car. And then he gets arrested for running someone over. The next morning, they look, the car has weird scratches on it. Sure. I mean, let's move things along. The cops show up. Yes.

And they say, you're a father. Who drove this car last night? Right. And he goes, it was me. And they go, you're a father. Who drove this car last night? Right. And he goes, it was me. And they go, you hit a man. Yeah, you hit a man who you have a personal history with. He's like, what? Don Jr. is like, this is surely a mistake.

He's an old man. It was an accident. Why are you trying him for manslaughter? Right. And they said, because the man he hit was blankety blank blank. Generic southern criminal name. Jimmy Jock Jock Jock. Yeah. And this was a man who was stalking a woman. Right. blank. Generic southern criminal name. Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy Jock Jock Jock.

This was a man who was stalking a woman. The case came before Duval 20 years earlier. 30 years earlier. He gives him a lenient sentence. 30 days. Something like that. He proceeds to the second he gets out of jail He kills the woman. He kills the woman. He sinks her in and he kills her. And so he goes in for 20 years

he just got out apparently and what does Duval do? Runs him the fuck over. He sinks her in a window. He kills her. And so he goes in for 20 years. He just got out apparently. And that night. What does Duval do? Run him the fuck over. Runs him over. Yep. Kills him. This is an R-rated movie, by the way.

They say fuck a lot in this movie. A lot. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. Nothing else. Like, there's no other R-rated material in this movie. They just say fuck a lot.

So here's the central dramatic crux of The Judge. Donnie Jr. is ready to leave. I really hate this movie. There's nothing left for him in this town. He's done his due time with his dead mother. You guys know what the crux is. Yeah, he has to defend his dad, his grumpy old piece of shit dad

who won't even admit that maybe he did run this guy over. Because I did not. I really... But then where were you that night? I don't remember. Why can't you remember? I don't know. He's a judge.

He's a judge. He's the judge and now he has to go on trial. He knows how the law works. And he's just being like, I don't know. I don't know. I's a judge. He's a judge. He's the judge and now he has to go on trial. He knows how the law works. And he's just being like, I don't know. I don't know. And he hires Dax Shepard. My favorite character in the film and the best performance in the film. Oh yeah, he's alright. Yeah. Ben, do you agree or do you

hate it? I kind of hate it. Really? I like Dax Shepard. But I guess he's doing what he can with the part. Dax Shepard's character is like the local DA in the town. What's his day job? No, he's not a DA. He's just what he can with the part. Dax Hepburn's character is the local DA in the town. What's his day job? No, he's not a DA. He's just a guy.

He's a lawyer, but what's his day job? He works at a pawn shop or something. He works at a pawn shop, and he's got a little office upstairs. And he went to whatever, Indiana Community College. I don't know what it is, but his diploma might as well be from Kinko's or whatever. Dax Hepburn went to Harvard Law. He went to Northwestern. Northwestern. I actually like that. It's a reasonably good school, but it's not like he went

to the best school in the country. He went to a good law school. He's always yelling at his dad for not even showing up at his graduation. He was never there for him. Which, by the way, yeah, dick move, Duvall. Show up for the graduation, at least. You don't even have to talk to him. Dak Shepard's like, why do you want me?

Your son's in the room. Yeah, your son's a good lawyer. He's a big shot lawyer. And he's like, I refuse. I won't have my son be the lawyer. And he keeps talking about how we just need a good country boy. Not as fancy city talk. This movie is so fucking bad.

It's the worst. He said, not as fancy city talk. Every piece of dramatic shorthanded and play, Every five minutes there's some nonsense like that So instead he hires Zach Shepard Who is a man with such No we gotta say the best character detail about him With a mouth full of bagel

He is a man with such intense stage fright When it comes to performing in court That he vomits extensively every time before He has to appear in court Because I think Downey Jr. is like Oh it's cause you feel like you have a life in your hand You still care about your clients Don't worry it'll pass Or he has to appear in court. Because I think Downey Jr. is like, oh, it's because you feel like you have a life in your hand and you still care about your clients. Don't worry, it'll pass.

And Dan Schiffer's like, I sure hope it doesn't pass. You're a real cynic, Mr. Downey. He is, for me, the TC-14 of the judge. No, he's not that good. He's the character I want to see the entire film about. No, no, Dino Fria's better. No, I'm sticking with this. They both should have been nominated.

No, they should not have been nominated for anything. We skipped over a huge, huge scene. Okay. First night, funeral, three brothers are bummed out. They go to a bar. Sure. There's a hot young piece behind the bar. Leighton Meester in, I think Leighton Meester's an okay actress, but this is her worst work.

Yes. She has an accent like someone was like, it's like she asked someone, like, where's this movie set? The South? And someone was like, huh? And she's like, great. And does a Southern accent for reasons I cannot decipher. But it's like her research was just going to the Country Bear Jamboree at Disney World 12 times. Well, we here at Bears are going to sing a song for you.

She's so bad. She's so bad now. Anyway, yeah, she's like, oh, you boys are sure cute. I'm the bartender. A bunch of bro-y guys come in, and they're trying to fucking start shit with her, and Downey Jr. talks the guys down. He does some crazy, like, oh, actually, he's like, oh, yeah, you're gonna hit on her?

Well, I'm a lawyer, and I bet you guys have priors, and they're all like, whoa, this guy's smart. Yeah, rapist at three o'clock. He's making, like, pithy, like, comments like that. He's essentially doing the Fancy City talk, right? Oh, God. And she immediately falls for it. And there's a cut, there's a time jump

to him really making out with Leighton Easter in a phone booth. Right. And the two brothers, the one who's conveniently retarded, and D'Onofrio, heart of gold, and no other character development, are like,

up to his old tricks, what can he say? The man is away. Whatever it is, right? Right. But none of them have ever seen this girl before, seemingly have no no they don't yeah they don't they don't say like oh that's blah right so i'm going this is gross yeah it's already gross because downey's 50 and leighton meester's like 24 and she's playing even younger you know i mean like it's super gross and it's you're like i don't know if they fucked or they're just getting really handsy but either way, it's way too much.

I don't like it. Yeah. At the funeral, the morning of, he goes to a diner and who's there working there but his... His old flame.

His great lost love. His high school sweetie. His high school sweetheart who he left. He didn't show up to the prom, right? I don't know. He ditched her. He left town right after,

never came back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she was the one. Played by Vera Farmiga. She's still there and he's like, I'm surprised you're still here. And she's like, I'm surprised. Played by like a triple peroxided Vera Farmiga with like way too much eyeshadow where they're like, let's make her look trashy.

Like she's a, anyway. But good performance. Solid. No. You don't think so? I love Vera Farmiga, but she's terrible in this movie. I think it's a solid performance. I don't think it's her fault.

No, she's bad. I don't think it's her fault, but they're catching up, right? I think it's her fault. I think it's a solid performance. I don't think it's her fault. No, she's bad. I don't think it's her fault. But they're catching up, right? I think it's her fault. I think it's everyone's fault. Everyone in this movie, it's a little bit their fault. It's Duvall's fault and it's definitely Downey's fault. Yes. Yeah, anyway, go on. Okay, so those two pieces are set in place,

right? Yeah, and I love Vera Farmiga. He's got this hot side piece in town. Right, and he's got the old flame. Okay, so now he's still in town and he refuses to go back home because he's trying to make sure his dad... Yeah, out of some stubbornness. I guess, like, it's never really explored why he's like, you know what, I'm gonna stay, even though apparently all he's ever done is get the hell out of this town.

But I guess it makes sense. So there's a lot of plot development in the first 30 minutes that we just set up. And now the film introduces, like, one big wrinkleinkle and the film just essentially goes in circles. Are you saying the cancer is the big wrinkle? Yeah. Yeah. Why can't he remember? Is he drinking?

And then you realize now he has cancer. It's in his brain. It's like brain cancer, right. Right. And he's losing his memory. He's having chemo, which could have the side effects. He's losing his memory. Memory loss.

He refuses to acknowledge it because then all of his trials for like the last six months as you know, when he was the judge. Longer I think. He's been in for a little while. Yeah. Would be maybe declared a mistrial because he was impaired. And he's this old fashioned man who goes the legacy is the most important thing a man can have.

I do not want my legacy called into question. I'm going to die. Right. Yeah. I might as well die. Who cares if I die in jail, not in jail? Like, I just don't want. I just want to be a good judge.

Never cared about being a good dad. He just wants to be a good judge. I really would almost prefer to see a movie where he is the judge. Like, because you just see one brief where he's like, he gives kind of a Judge Judy type, like, you're going to sell your car back to that guy. Yeah. And that's the judge's ruling. Judge, judge. Bang. You get, like, you're going to sell your car back to that guy, and that's the judge's ruling. Judge, judge, bang.

You get, like, the judge, judge. You get, like, oh, this guy's a great judge. Yeah, you're like, oh, tough but fair. I would go show up to watch him do it, because he's, like, folksy and funny. I would watch a reality show, yeah, about this folksy judge. And fair, and he gives you kind of life lessons. You can tell why the whole town would love him. But then after that, he doesn't get to be the judge.

He just gets to be cranky mean dad and like silent what's the accused person. Yes. In court. Eventually you know, Dax Shepard's blowing the case so hard that Johnny Jr. sort of. He like won't object. Johnny Jr.'s like throwing legal pads at him. Right. Yeah, he's throwing pads

over his shoulder with things to say. Ken Howard, by the way, plays the judge in this movie. The great Ken Howard. Sag after a president. Oh, movie. The great Ken Howard. I think he's running for re-election. I just read the deadline yesterday. And he's not good either. I don't like you in this movie, Ken Howard. And again, you kind of wish he would have a little more fun with it, but instead

it's just like, objection! And Ken Howard's like, overruled. Like, there's no chance to play around. You know what this movie feels a little like to me? Go ahead. David Dobkin, a man with such crass, base, stupid,

ugly comedic instincts. Sure. Really trying to prove that he's a serious master adult. Right, so he's dialing it too far back. It feels like the way that 13-year-old boys have to act during their bar mitzvah. During the actual service in the Torah portion where they really have to put on the airs that they are now a man. Right.

And then the second, like, the party, they fucking take it off and they put a glow stick around their dick and they're dancing to fucking Flo Rida. And, like, you know, it's like. Yeah, yeah. Did you get bar mitzvahed? I didn't. No, I never have had a glow stick around my dick. But you know what I'm saying? It's like the kid, it's like, that's not a man.

That's a little boy. I know. And he wants to be poking someone with a stick. And then once in a while, someone pisses on someone's shoes and you're like, right, there he is. He wants to have Dax Shepard vomiting. He wants to do this. But it's like, bar mitzvah kids, I saw some of the most charismatic 13-year-olds of my

generation get up on that stage and be so fucking boring because their main objective is be serious. Yes. Look serious. Right. And like you're really thinking about what you're saying. And so David Dobkin's direction in the scenes where people aren't peeing or puking. Yeah.

Or shitting themselves. This movie has a ton of bodily fluids. That's true. My favorite scene in the movie, we'll get to. Okay. It's like him going like, but I'm a very serious filmmaker and this is a very serious movie, which makes it so difficult to watch. Also, it's really, really overlong. Like you say, everything's kind of set up in the first half hour, 40 minutes of the movie.

So much in the first 30 minutes. And then it just doesn't go. You kind of want, the movie I wanted is all this set up and you're like, fine, and then give me a court case. Give me an exciting court case. Right. Downey Jr.'s locking horns with Billy Bob Thornton who's playing this wise guy, really, really smart, kind of quiet, shark of an attorney. He's like the southern Downey Jr. Exactly.

But he has morality. He's a shark. Let's see them match wits. Doesn't happen. There's almost no court stuff except for the worst scene in the movie, which is the cross-examination of Robert Duvall. What do you think of Billy Bob Thornton's performance? I don't know. He's kind of sleepwalking.

It's kind of a classic Billy Bob where you're like, I wish you, you know, he's one of the most talented actors of his generation. But I don't know. I think he's kind of phoning it in. At least he's not over the top. He looks amazing. His look in this film is incredible. He's got a really, really, he's super of phoning it in. At least he's not over the top. He looks amazing. His look in this film is incredible. He's got a really, really, he's super slim. He is.

He's gotten really skinny. He's gotten really skinny. He's got his gray wig on. Yep. I prefer him with gray hair. Yep. A goatee. Yep.

And like a really sharp three-piece suit. Yeah. He looks like a shark. He looks fine. Yeah. But he doesn't do anything in this movie. He hasn't. It's a terrible character. It's underwritten. So, Don Jr. He looks fine. Yeah. But he doesn't do anything in this movie. He hasn't. It's a terrible character.

It's underwritten. So, Don Jr. becomes part of the case and he's trying to prove it and it's this whole battle where he wants the dad to admit if he says that he is undergoing chemo. Right.

Then he basically wins because impairment. But this and that. And the movie's just back and forth arguments about this and while they're back home and he's going, why were you never there for me?

Why were you this? And the dad goes, why are you a disappointment? Why were you this? And the dad goes why are you a disappointment? Why do you still suck? The brother Go ahead. has obsessively over his life as one of those

magical little tics He's got a Super 8 camera and he films everything. He's constantly filming everything. I go put that damn camera down. And Don Jr. is like your camera's fine but the dad hates the camera.

I hate this movie. And so while they're fighting about things that happened in the past sometimes the brother just sets up a projector and plays home videos. 8mm films. It's so fucking annoying.

And so they're fighting about something and project it onto their shirts and the background behind them is video of them in younger days. As children running around with cowboy hats on. It's also, this movie's set in 2014. Yeah. 2014. So Downey Jr. when he was a kid, well I guess, what was it? The 70s. I guess it's like, movie's set in 2014 yeah 2014 so Downey Jr. when he was a kid well I guess

what was it the 70s I guess it's like because it feels like he grew up in like 1948 all the ages in this movie are fucked up too because Duvall they say

at one point he was like 72 right like he's playing like 10 years younger than he really is and Downey Jr. kind of is as well

Downey Jr.'s character should be like 40 and Duvall should be 70 yeah yeah Downey Jr.'s character should be like 40. Yeah, right. Because he was a small kid. And Duvall should be 70. Yeah. Yeah. Danny Jr.'s character should be 40 at the most. And he's 50 and Duvall's like 82.

Right. And Duvall has like no hair left on his head, but they dye it brown to make him look a little younger. So he's got these like wisps that are slicked back just on the sides and they dye it like a deep brown. And it's like, oh, you're right. That makes him look 70 instead of 80. Well, he's in chemo, too. He's in chemo. He's going to dye those wisps.

It's like he's an old man. Just let him play an old man. But I really think, you know, Duvall and Daniel Jr. had done a couple films together. Had they? What's their? This was a trivia question at the trivia night we used to go to. It was The Gingerbread Man. Okay.

And Lucky You, the Curtis Hansen poker movie. I've never seen that movie. Neither have I. It's supposed to be terrible. Wait, Downey Jr. is in Lucky You? I don't think he is. Uncredited, I believe. Yes, he is. All right.

Duvall got the and on that film. It's Eric Bana, Drew Barrymore, and Robert Duvall, and Downey Jr. is uncredited. Oh, you're right. Yeah, Telephone Jackie plays, whatever that means. Yeah. So clearly the two have some sort of admiration for each other. Sure. I think a big impetus in this film, in doing this film for him,

was this is a great part for Duvall. I want to do a film with Duvall. Right. I have my own father issues. I'm fighting with all this stuff. And over the course of the film, it is revealed that the reason there's so much resentment is that Downey Jr. had as a young man

severe substance abuse. He's high and he's in a car accident where he's driving I guess and D'Onofrio is in the car and he like breaks his hand or something and that means he can't be like a pro ball player which is all Robert Duvall wanted for him. Just like you want to

throw the movie out the window. It's so hackneyed. Now he's fat and sad. Yeah. Everything in the movie. Great casting. Poor Deneau Freelance. Yeah.

Go ahead. I mean, you're saying everything's so hackneyed. There's literally a moment in this film where the two of them get in a fight and then storm out of a car. They can't deal with each other anymore. Right. And then they cut to a wide shot of the two of them walking in opposite directions. Sure. On the directions. Sure.

On like the road. It's like a big wide shot and it's just like, oh, these men walk different paths in life. Like every, there's so much like fucking heavy handed, like visual symbolism of like, I mean, literally projecting flashbacks onto their bodies. Well, no. And also then that scene where it's like the camera, the super, you know, starts playing and they're like, oh, turn it on. He's like, no, leave it on. And they watch it.

Like, oh, we were so cute. And then there's footage of like the car, the totaled car and all this stuff. Yeah, why did he go to the scene of the car? Turn this off! Turn this fucking off! And it's like, oh, my God. It makes no sense. No, it's, and also we already know about that Duvall is mad at Robert Downey Jr. for this car accident.

Yet we need another scene where it's literally projected and Robert Downey Jr. starts, I mean, sorry, Duvall starts screaming like, fast forward it. And he's like, I can't, it's film. I can't fast forward film. He's like, turn the fucking crank if you have to. Turn the fucking crank. It's so bad. So their relationship gets worse and worse. And Duvall's health declines more and more.

My favorite scene in the movie is Dianne Jr. goes upstairs. Is it the shower scene? And he's shit all over himself. Bob Duvall has shit all over himself. The great Bob Duvall. You don't really see it. It's not.

Oh, I would disagree. You think so? Well, there's one key shot I will never forget. There's one image that is permanently burned into my mind but deval uh inarguably one of the finest actors ever to live i agree um as shit himself and he's like puttering around and danger is like it's fine let me take care of you and he like sort of pulls his pants and his underwear down you see the pants are totally stained with shit yeah i guess and then he takes the shower head there's like one of those like

handle shower heads. And he starts like hosing him down. And there's a very clear shot of Robert Duvall's wrinkly old man legs. It's like the shot is like from like his lower thigh to his feet. And you see the drain of the bathtub. And he's just hosing him down. And you just see shit running down his legs, down the drain. The great Bob Duvall. And they're in the shower

together for a while and Duvall is naked and like you know again I don't know I got no beef with you Bobby and like I'm glad you want

you know it's that thing where like in a good movie this would be like a really tough to watch kind of like difficult a brave moment like oh god

look at Duvall he looks terrible you can tell they think that's what it is. Sometimes you got to take a real risk and do a scene that's too tough for people to watch. But then they undercut it by having the daughter be outside the bathroom, like knocking me, like, can I come in?

Can I help? And they're like, no, you can't come in. Fuck off. Like, go away. It almost turns into like a dumb gay panic thing. Like it almost turns into like a fucking little fucker scene where like they're naked together in a bathtub and it's like, oh no, what's she going to think?

Yeah, yeah. Just go away. And she's like, well, I want to help. I can't remember what excuse. Because the daughter comes to visit and the grandpa's really nice. Yeah, yeah. The daughter comes to visit and Downey Jr. is like,

no, don't be mad or don't be freaked out just because my grandpa is so scary. Don't worry about it. And then, of course, yeah, he's really nice to her. He only hates you, Downey. really nice to her. He only hates you, Downey. He likes everyone else. He only hates Downey Jr. And there's a dumb speech at the end where it's like, hey,

it's because you had the most potential. I couldn't watch you. This and that. Right? Okay. Now, here's a subplot that we've been burying. Okay. We set up the two women. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And there's the scene where Downey Jr. is... Is it when they walk away from the car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For Miga and Meester. Right. Then there's the scene where Downey Jr. is... Is it when they walk away from the car?

Yeah, it's somewhere around there. Or a scene where his bike fucking breaks down. He starts wearing his old Black Sabbath t-shirt, and he's on the bike, and he takes his hands off the handles, and he raises them up in the air, and he's like, whoo! And all these... Garbage. Garbage, garbage, garbage. One of those scenes where he's on the side of the road for some reason. It happens a lot in this film.

A car pulls out and it's like, oh, need a ride? Right. And it's Vera Farmiga. Sure. And he gets in and she goes, hey, have you met? My daughter. And it's fucking Leighton Meester. Sure.

So at first. Already a little gross. You're like, oh, weird. He's making out with his sweetheart's daughter. Yes. And then. He starts to investigate with his sweetheart's daughter. Yes. And then. He starts to investigate the timeline.

When were you born exactly? Ooh, that was eight months after I left town. Yeah, it's like nine months after prom night. Yeah. To be exact. When I left and then never came back and never contacted you ever again. Right. So he starts freaking out that he fucked his daughter.

Yeah. Although he just says made out with. Because he even vocalizes at one again. Right. So he starts freaking out that he fucked his daughter. Yeah. Although he just says made out with because he even vocalizes at one point. Okay. He's like, made out with your daughter. We don't know that they had sex.

They definitely made out. It was very handsy. Yay. They're in a phone booth and he's fucking feeling her out. No, no, I get you. Yeah, he's got pussy fingers. Excuse me while I eat more

of this pickle. But it's kind of dropped. You know, like, they don't really... It's one... I mean, again, and it's this weird mix of like, like you say, stately, Oscar Beatty, prestige, and then that Dobkin shit charm where he's like, what if you fucked your daughter by mistake? Whoa!

Because this plot line is exclusively played for laughs. It is, and it's exclusively played for Downey to do his classic, like, oh, did I, wait, did I He's, like, trying to ask the questions around it. It's, like, nervous, like, comedy of manners. Oh, one question. How old are you? Twenty? Oh.

What kind of genes do you think she has? Like, it's that kind of, like, it's all played like that. Anyway, ultimately, it's revealed that she's Vincent D'Onofrio's daughter. Yeah, that is high school sweetheart. So he didn't fuck his daughter, he fucked his niece. It's okay. And the movie treats it like, what a success. Yeah, they're like, phew.

Not, oh, my brother slept with my girlfriend who I was in love with at the time before I left her and broke her heart. He dumped her. And also, I maybe fucked my niece. And then that's it. Done. He doesn't even... How does this movie even end? Is he going to move back or not?

Well, it's... It's kind of implied that he's going to move back in town, right? Yeah. With his daughter probably. The dad ends up... He gets convicted of manslaughter. Squeezes the confession out of him. No, no, no. There's this horrible scene horrible scene where yeah he's cross-examined yeah no i hated this scene

it's like you know what it reminded me most of the scene in big daddy where adam sandler tells his dad how much he loved him on the stand during yeah you know what i'm talking about i love that scene it works in big daddy it works over the Daddy. It works in Big Daddy. It's over the top, but it works in Big Daddy. Oh, yeah, because Big Daddy's a ribald comedy. Big Daddy's so awful. Anyway, yeah, so it's a scene where Downey cross-examines his dad because his dad's like, only guilty people don't take the stand. And, you know, he asks him some basic questions.

Billy Bob Thornton asks him some questions. It's kind of going nowhere. And then Robert Duvall basically just confesses on the stand like, I think I hit him. You're forgetting what the plot point is, how he gets it out of him. Go ahead. He goes, and your memory's intact. Have you been experiencing chemo? No, no, no, no. My memory is perfect, this and that. And he goes, let me ask you

a question. What's the name of your bailiff? Set up from the first scene. The bailiff who he's had at his side for like 30 years. It's like his old friend the bailiff, Gus. And when he can't remember the name of the bailiff, it's like open and shut. This guy has a fucking faulty memory. They still convict him.

No, but then you forget. Then there's 20 minutes of that monologuing to each other of like, why did you convict this guy? Why did you let him off easy the first time? Because he reminded me of you. Because he reminded me of you and I wanted to give him a second chance. He was a troubled kid. And then after I saw what he did to that girl, I became tough on you because I wouldn't let you become that. By the way, I just want to say this movie is a lot worse than Star Wars Episode I The Phantom Menace.

No question. Because, yeah, they're just reading out their character motivations. Yep. And it's horribly acted, especially on Duvall's part. And you know what this movie doesn't have any of at all? Spaceships. Very true. Where are the spaceships?

Which, like, we were burned out on fan mass by the end, but you watch something like The Judge and you go, like, well, any movie with spaceships is kind of cool. Yeah. It's true. It's kind of cool. It is. It's true. Yeah. Even if it was this whole movie just set on a spaceship, it'd be a little better.

I love smart adult dramas. No, yeah, sure. This is a dumb adult drama. Right, which I hate. I'd rather take a dumb spaceship movie than a dumb adult drama. Anyway, Duvall gets manslaughter, four years in the slammer. After seven months, Robert- He admits that he did it consciously, too.

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Downey Jr., it doesn't matter. You don't really care because the movie's like, the guy killed is a piece of shit anyway. Don't worry about it. Like, Grace Zabriskie has this weird performance in the background as the dead guy's mother. Right. Where she's kind of like undercut as like this manipulative, lying scumbag. She's like, I visited him all the time in prison.

Robert Downey Jr. is like, you visited him twice in 20 years, so you can shut up, bereaved mother of the deceased. Fair-weathered friend. Anyway, yeah, Duvall goes to prison. After seven months, Downey springs him, I guess, for a fishing trip, even though he's in prison? I thought it was he was being released early for good. After seven months?

That's pretty good behavior. Yeah, really good behavior. Anyway, maybe- He's a judge. He told other people. He gave them folksy lessons. Maybe it's because he is literally dying of cancer. He looks terrible. He's all purple. He told other people. He gave them folksy lessons. Maybe it's because he is literally dying of cancer. He looks terrible.

He's all, like, purple. Right. They do some awful makeup on him. And then they take a fishing trip, and he dies during the fishing trip. And does he say, I love you? He says something nice right before he dies. They have a nice little comment. I really wish that the movie ended with Danny Jr. just kicking Duvall into the lake.

You know, he's dead fine. Boom. Anyway. Final moment. He says whatever his thing is, like, you know, a judge dies, I keep the flag up, and I want them to keep the flag up. And they put the flag up. And it's like, oh, great.

They go to the funeral, and the final moment of the film is, Dandrea walks through the courthouse. Oh, it's like a sacred place. This is where Dad works. He's finally understood who his dad was, and he sort of gets up there in the box, and he starts spinning around the chair chair and the chair keeps on spinning around and he's sort of looking at it. And that's the final shot. Is he going to move back here?

Is he going to become the judge? Who cares? I don't care! Question. Do you think they were trying to set up a sequel? Judge 2! Judge Junior! Yeah, sure. A TV show. I would totally watch a TV show about Robert Downey Jr. as an irascible small-town judge. Yeah, I would too.

Like, if his career had not taken off again, you know, like, yeah, I'd watch that. I would also watch a season of a TV show in which Robert Downey Jr. played a hotshot lawyer, and that season is called Alan McBeal Season 4. That's true, and he's great in it. That's another option. You can just watch that instead. He's very slick, and he's funny, and he doesn't play a piece of garbage. And there's one episode that's a musical and you get to see him sing

and he's a great singer. He's a great singer. He released a couple albums of jazz standards. Just the one, but it's pretty good. It's called The Futurist. The Futurist. Anyway, Robert Downey Jr. in this movie. Thoughts?

You're saying he was going for the Oscar. Yeah. I'm pretty sure he is phoning this in. I disagree. You saying he was going for the oscar because i'm pretty sure he is phoning this in i disagree you think he's going for it i think he's really going for phoning in but he's just kind of doing his shtick i think it's so easy for him that's the thing it's always funny i think he's working really hard but there's a thing of like i think artists always need to strive for a little bit above what they've done before. I think every single project you do in any fucking medium, whatever you're doing, if you've done something well before, you get lazy. It's why so many sequels are shitty because the director goes, oh, I made this once.

I know how to do it again. I can just do it again. I can repeat it. And even if they think they're really, they put their heart in it, they're working really hard, There's that tension that comes from when there's something at stake. I've never tried something like this before, something at this scale before or whatever it is. And Di Junior syncs up with those comments in that interview where he's like, me winning an Oscar, it's inevitable. It's a matter of time. I'm going to get the part.

So he just read the script and went, oh, this is a part I can kill. This is an Oscar-y movie. Weird thing, though. Not really. I mean, you look at the last 15 years of oscars they don't reward this kind of stuff no and even the best picture winners of the last whatever years are like the artist and the hurt locker and like no country for all men you know i mean like some good some bad but they're not really like this the last sort of like very

sort of mannered beautiful mind um yeah and I'd say King's Speech falls into that too. Oh, King's Speech, yeah. But that's the British Tony thing. And Beautiful Mind is like biopic. It's like a historic figure. There hasn't been a movie like The Judge that's really sweet the Oscars in a long time. And what I find interesting about it is

it's specifically the kind of shitty Oscar movie that was getting attention and slam dunk nominations for shitty performances for Downey Jr.'s contemporaries at the time that he was spiraling out of control. Fair enough. In the 90s when he was failing to make good on the promise he had as a movie star, he was seeing like

These were the prestige movies. I know what you're saying. I mean the movie kind of looks like a civil action which Robert Del Valle was nominated for, which she's fantastic in. It's not a great movie with Travolta. Another really well-commerced, I all shot it.

It's a really good-looking movie. But it feels like he's like, I want to make an Ed Zwick or Steve Zalian. That's the problem with this movie. It is too shitty. It's a stately legal drama and an annoying like my dad doesn't love me drama if he's working through his issues like in this performance which might be it doesn't really show because he kind of just keeps up the downy junior force field all the time like the kind of charming even when he's mad and he's like you're such a fucking bad dad

and he punches thing like you know he's still doing he's also such an unlikable character yeah he doesn't lose it he's such an unlikable character there's one moment in that scene where he gets kind of real i remember like sitting there for like five seconds being like oh that feels a little real and a little raw but literally five seconds within two hours and 25 minutes of a fucking movie um now we should say duval was nominated for an oscar which is bananas it is crazy because i mean i think they just were like oh sure because he's Because he's just- Tell the audience what I'm doing right now. He's pointing to a banana. I'm holding up a banana because it's bananas.

It is bananas. I mean, it really felt like just some kind of default. Like, sure, the veteran gets it. Yeah, why not? And he's nominated with Edward Norton for Birdman. Sure. One of his finest performances in a movie I hate, but a great performance. Good performance.

Ethan Hawke in Boyhood. Probably his best work ever. So good in that movie. Mark Ruffalo in Boxcatcher. I mean, just one of the best actors. Incredible. Incredible in that, but also great in everything. And then J.K. Simmons, who won for Whiplash.

Performance of a lifetime. I mean, one of the most iconic performances of the last ten years. Absolutely. And then The Judge. And The Judge. And I can't, I mean, my memory's lapsing me after fucking like eight months of us obsessively handicapping these things to each other. There were other better performances. There were other people who were sort of like in the running who were worthy, who were in films that were seen and were recognized.

All of that is so annoying. And there's sort of the argument of like, well, it's Duvall, they now name him for everything. Civil Action was previously his last nomination. There was almost 20 years. Is that right? Civil Action, I think, is 97 and this was 2000. Isn't The Apostle in between those? He's really good at that.

I believe The Apostle's before. Is it? That's fair. I think Civil Action was his last one. You know what? He's fantastic in his open range. He's so good in that. Get Low, a lot of people thought he was close to getting a nomination. He's okay in that.

That's more of a classic kind of grumpy Duvall. But my point is... He makes so many bad movies. You're right. Civil Action, 98. And The Apostle, 97, which he is so good in. He directed that film. That's a terrific film. Nobody talks about it anymore. I think Duvall's great. I think he's one of the finest actors of all time. Absolutely. He has won an Oscar.

He makes a lot of shitty movies, though. Yeah, but it's so... Fucking De Niro and Pacino and whatever. I have no beef. I'm just saying. He's He has won an Oscar. He makes a lot of shitty movies, though. Yeah, but it's so, I mean, fucking De Niro and Pacino and whatever. I have no beef. I'm just saying, like, you know, he's happy to phone it in. Well, but here's the thing. I think Duvall phoning it in is better than a lot

of his contemporaries. Because we like to watch him yell. We like to watch Duvall be like grumpy old Duvall. And he's always been so naturalistic. Yeah. You know, so small

but so emotionally deep. There's a real well of feeling within him, whether he's yelling or he's sad, he's broken, he's angry, whatever it is. He's a very engaging screen presence. De Niro, when he's phoning it in, really is sleepwalking. That's true. And Pacino, when he's phoning it in, is just yelling.

You know, to talk about two of the other guys who came up around the same time as him as sort of this new wave of method actors. The Godfather guys. Right, the Godfather boys. Godfather boys. Godfather boys. of method actors. Right, the Godfather boys. Godfather boys. Godfather boys. Duvall's so good in the Godfather movies. Yes.

Oh, Tom Hagen is one of my favorite characters ever. And he's so restrained in those films. So restrained. I mean, it's beautiful, beautiful work. And he only didn't win because the other Godfather people won. No. Was he nominated for both of them? He was nominated for the first, not for the second. Okay, so the first one he loses to.

That year, Khan, Duvall, and Pacino were all nominated for Supporting Actor. They all lost to Joel Grey in Cabaret. Oh, which is a great performance. My point is, the argument that, oh, they just nominate Duvall for everything doesn't hold any water. You could go, well, this is a meatier part that he's got in a while but it's a shitty meaty part it's a piece of shitty meat it's a fucking horse steak it's even a garbage piece of fucking

cat rib I don't know you know it's like garbage meat what's this movie wild horses season next year though I don't know that sounds cool James Franco's in it like why now be like you know Deval is doing good work.

And my argument is, if you're going to nominate him for the judge, then you should retroactively nominate him for literally every movie he's done the last 20 years. Because he is no better or worse in the judge than he is in Jack Reacher. Like, he's fine in Jack Reacher. And he's fine in this.

He's a great actor. But I think part of it is what we're talking about. Like, he does a scene where he shits himself and gets washed off naked in a shower. He has a couple of... I remember, I think his Oscar clip was that scene where he's yelling at Downey during the tornado. We forgot about the tornado. Oh, Jesus Christ. Suddenly they're like, it's a tornado!

And they have to go into the basement and they have a fight. They have a fight so bad that they have to leave the tornado shelter and go fight out in the open. And an homage to everyone's favorite father-son scene from Man of Steel. Oh, yeah. Warner Brothers has become the go-to studios for... Tornado fights. Tornado fights between fathers and sons. Anyway, and that's the scene where he's like,

Oh, boo-hoo, I didn't come to your graduation. Well, fuck you, I paid for it. And it's, you know... Again, you're like, he could have gone to his graduation. Look good at graduation, brother. Anyway, I hate this movie. And it's, you know, again, you're like, he could have gotten a risk-earned duration. Look good, graduation, brother. Anyway, I hate this movie. I can't believe you made me watch it. I had to watch it the same day I watched Entourage, the movie,

which is a better movie than The Judge. Wow. It's really bad. So a new question to present for you before we try to answer our major question and then never talk about The Judge ever again. Never. And for any of our listeners who actually watch The Judge.

We're so sorry. I'm so sorry. And thank you. And we won't test your loyalty this much going forward. But I do think. Yeah, we won't. That's true. You will learn something from seeing this movie.

It will give you a needed perspective. It's like what Einstein said. We need to drop the atomic bomb once so that we never dropped it ever again. Yeah. I just want to make this clear. Yeah. We're not doing a podcast about bad movies. No.

That's not our intention at all. Yeah. I find this one fascinating. We're going to cover some of our favorite pieces of art of all time. Definitely. We're going to cover interesting failures. Our job here is not just to shit on things and then wash the shit off our legs with a shower handle.

That's not what we're here to do. But I needed to share this movie with people because no one fucking saw it. I watched it out of completism. I wanted to share this movie with people because no one fucking saw it. I watched it out of completism. I wanted to see all the nominees for the Oscars. I even watched the fucking documentary shorts and everything. I watched literally everything last year. The Judge was the last one I watched.

I watched it with my roommate, and he resented me for making it. He had a tough day at work, and he was like, yeah, you want to watch some TV? And I was like, what if we watched The Judge? Yep. So you saw a screener. I did. SAG screener. I got a SA what if we watched The Judge? Yep. So you saw a screener.

I did. SAG screener. I got a SAG screener of The Judge. Yeah. After it had been nominated, I had to vote in the SAG awards. Who'd you vote for? I forgot to vote this. You idiot.

I'm obsessed with awards. I forgot to vote. But here would have been my choices. I would have gone J.K. Simmons, Patricia Arquette, Rosamund Pike, and Jake Gyllenhaal. That's pretty good. Gyllenhaal was nominated for the SAGs and not for the Oscars. I didn't like Nightcrawler. We can talk about it.

I love that performance. It's a pretty good performance. Cumberbatch would have been my runner-up. I think that was... I didn't like Cumberbatch. I hate that movie. I think it's a beautiful performance. Weirdly, I like the movie.

Okay, I hate... I don't hate the performance. I don't think much of it. No, he's pretty good. You know what? Whatever. This is a perfect lead-in to the big question I want to ask you. Oh, go ahead. David, we've been friends for a little over two years now. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, he's pretty good. You know what? Whatever. This is a perfect lead into the big question I want to ask you. Oh, go ahead.

David, we've been friends for like a little over two years now. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, more than two years. Right. But we became fast friends and deep friends.

We very quickly were like, we became friends because Alyssa Stonoa, a friend of the Gethard show, followed both of us on Twitter. I think we followed each other and pointed out that we were tweeting very similar things

at the same time. Yeah, especially about our respective crushes on Winona Ryder and Beetlejuice. Right. Either when we were that age or aging her up to present day. No, I think it was when we were that age. Yeah. And was like, are you guys not friends? Yeah, right.

And then we started DMing, sliding to your DMs. We slid into the DMs. Yeah. Saw some movies together, got drinks, had a fun time. Then started going to this trivia night together. Became obsessive. It took over our lives for about a year. We both sort of felt like we need to step away

from it because we were failing in other aspects. That's true. Responsibilities as men. One of the reasons we wanted to do this podcast together was to find a reason to spend time together. We love analyzing these things. We thought we could make something out of it so we're not just jawing about chewing the fat. Yeah. Return to something else

that people might like. It's a great excuse for us to hang out on a weekly basis. I agree. I am really touched that people actually like listening to it. Me too. It's so much fun. Does the fact that I made you watch The Judge, will it have irreparable damage on our friendship? No, not at all. No? No.

I felt a little guilty. Last night when I realized you were watching The Judge, I was like, this is actually maybe a big ask for a good friend. Please. No. No, not at all. I love watching these movies. Come on.

I love watching movies. I know. Even when I hate them. Even when I have to watch Entourage the same night and review it for The Atlantic. Still happy to do it. But here's the question. Go ahead. Did Don Jr. really think this was going to win him

an Oscar? I don't know what he was thinking. But that's crazy, right? Because his part's not even that showy. I mean, Duvall's the good part. Yeah, Duvall's the good part. In quotes. It's the Oscar-y role. It's not a well-written role. He played it to the best it could be played. I mean, Downey must have thought, like, this movie

will be a big hit, it'll get good reviews, and I'll coast to a nomination based on that. I guess. I don't know. In this case scenario, he's the Tom Cruise to the Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man. I mean, it's like he's the support part to make someone else look better. Does he think, well, Duvall's going to win the Lifetime Achievement Award, the second Oscar before he dies, and I get Best Picture? Yeah, no, Downey's out of his mind.

Here's what you got to do. Biopic, you you know like you did with Chaplin something where you're really physically testing yourself as an actor Buster Keaton

hey man that's actually a pretty good idea he'd be great old sad Buster Keaton when Buster Keaton wasn't allowed to

he fucked up he got sold to MGM and they made him do talkies with Jimmy Durante and he wasn't good at it and he had this really gravelly voice

and everyone was thrown off by the fact that Buster Keaton who like looked like an angel was like I don't know where this beer is coming from this is the thing if Downey Jr. just free advice Robbie and come on the

old sad Buster come on the show anytime I love you Robert Downey Jr. one of my favorite actors I'm sorry we shat all over your movie for an hour and 20 minutes but you know your movie was 2 hours and 20 minutes we could, you know, your movie was two hours and 20 minutes. Oh, boy. We could have gone longer.

He's got to do something where he doesn't do the Robert Downey Jr. thing. Agreed. Like, that's the thing that's holding him back. Yes. He needs to not rely on his natural charisma, his natural kind of, like, screen magnetism, and do something where people are like, whoa, like, that's Robert Downey Jr.? I can't believe it. I believe that-

That's what impresses awards voters. Yes. I believe that the cornerstone to getting an acting nomination, especially a win, is to surprise people. It's a surprise. Because Robert Downey Jr. should have been nominated for Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. He should have been nominated for Iron Man. Those are magnetic screen performances.

The Marvel movies literally are on the back of his performance in Iron Man where it's like, here's a guy who makes a comic book character seem like a human being but also seem like a comic book character and fun and in charge of witty and zingy and ugh. And he notoriously rewrote and or improvised most of the dialogue in that film. Right, and it's great. It was the bare structure of the script and he was like, I don't want to say these things this way and reworked every scene. He's playing with great actors. He's awesome in it.

That's the thing that people realize down the line, like, oh, we should have given him more credit for what he was doing there, especially in the first one. And he's great in Tropic Thunder, too, which is like, you know, he gets nominated for a thing where he's out of his mind in that movie. So I think there are, like, two different types. It's like, oh, I've never seen this actor be this good before. I'm surprised because I've never seen them kill it this hard. Right. Or I've never seen them even try to play something like this. And Meryl Streep, everyone goes, oh, they nominated for everything.

They nominated for everything. She's always fucking doing crazy things. She's always doing something different. Every year when the slam dunk Meryl nomination film comes out with its trailer and I'm like, what is it this time? I go, that actually is something I haven't seen her do before. Right. And I'm not saying she's always good, but she is always at least changing it up.

There's always a surprise. Oh, I didn't know she could play that kind of thing. You know? She's doing a different dialect. She physically transforms herself. All these kinds of things. You know? Yep.

You need that element. And Donnie Jr. is so cynically trying to give the people what he thinks they want based off of the movies he wasn't allowed to make in the 90s because he was doing too much heroin. And what he needs to do is surprise us, work with someone who's going to push him out of his boundaries, not a fucking David Dobkin who's got dumb instincts and also he can probably step over if Daniel Jr. wants to overpower him, but someone like Paul Thomas Anderson,

you know, who's not going to let him coast. Even Sam Raimi. Even Sam Raimi. He actually would have been great in Oz the Great and Powerful. He would have been great. And that movie would have been 40% better if he was in it. Still would have been bad. But it would have been great in Oz the Great and Powerful. He would have been great. And that movie would have been 40% better if he was in it. Still would have been bad. But it would have been 40% better, which means it would have been 40% good.

Right. It's maybe 10% good. Yeah. It's got a couple of good Raimi touches. The opening's actually beautiful. And Zach Braff's weirdly kind of funny in it. Nope. Okay.

Not giving you that one. I'm going to cut that. He plays a monkey. Yeah, cut it. Please cut it. He plays a porcelain monkey. Yeah, put a lightsaber. No, the little girl's plays a monkey. Please cut it. He plays a porcelain monkey. Put a lightsaber. No, the little girl's porcelain.

Put in a lightsaber effect and cut that out. He plays like a monkey in a bellhop uniform. Yeah, and also don't mention my dad's financial problems, Ben. Let's not talk about those. Right, don't mention those on Mike, Ben. That's the judge too. That's true. Griffin Newman and his dad get mad at him because he keeps talking on the podcast about his dad's financial problems.

Judging my dad's finances. And the poster's me like this going, oh boy. All right. We have gone really long. We needed to. And we should never speak of this movie again. We should solemnly swear never to talk about the judge. It's in the Disney vault.

We're never talking about it ever again. Lock it down. And next week we're going to talk about Star Wars Episode 2. Attack of the Clones. Dose. Attack of the Clones. DOS. Attack of the Clones. And I think an interesting angle to hit it at for the first week to give you a little teaser of what's coming is how does Episode 2 function as a sequel? Yeah.

I want to next week just review it as a sequel. And we can just talk about our first impressions of this film. Right. And what we thought would happen in a second Star Wars movie and what does happen in it. Whew. Special guests Cody and Molly are going to be on mic. No, they are not. No, they're not.

I don't think they've spoken to each other in like eight years. Thank you all very much for listening. Next week we'll do Star Wars stuff that you like. And producer Ben, the poet laureate of Griffin David Presents, Closing Thoughts, Judging the Judge, Closing Thoughts. You watched the first half

of this movie, gave up, said it was garbage. Yep. I really could not keep watching. But, hey, there's a great shit scene.

Thank you all for listening. And as always, keep on wiping that shit. On the beats, the parts I'm not singing, will you keep on repeating judge? Sure. Judge, judge, judge, judge, judge. Judge.

Judge, judge, judge, judge, judge. Judge. I'm Bob Duvall. Oh!