Blank Check with Griffin & David - K-19: The Widowmaker with Richard Lawson

Episode Date: October 29, 2017

Co-host of the Little Gold Men podcast and friend of the show, Richard Lawson (Vanity Fair) joins Griffin and David to discuss 2002’s submarine disaster K-19: The Widowmaker. But how was National Geographic involved in this production? What was the impact of this film bombing at the box office? Are any of the Russian accents convincing? Together they examine Harrison Ford and Liam Neeson’s careers, too many drills and sad food delivery metaphors. Also, check out Richard’s debut novel ‘All We Can Do Is Wait’ due out on February 6th.

Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check For their courage, I nominated these men for the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. But the committee ruled that because it was not wartime, and because it was merely an accident, they were not worthy of the title Hero. What good are honors from such people? These men sacrificed not for a medal, but because when the time came, it was their duty.

Not to the Navy, or to the state, but to us, their podcasts. And so, to podcasts! To podcasts! Hey, everybody! Oh, no. I was zoning out when he said all that at the end of the movie, I guess. Why? It's such engaging. The movie, I mean, you're so

on the hook by that point. It's where Harrison Ford's character's like, you know what? I think the Soviet Union might not totally be on the level. I think I'm coming around to this way of thinking. Harrison, hey, this is Catherine right now over at the Megafront.

Great, can we do another take? More stoic? Is that possible? Can you give me a little less to latch on to? Okay, I'll give it a shot. Hi, everybody. My name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims.

Welcome to Blank Check with Griffin and David. This is a podcast that is hosted by Griffin and David. That's the two of us. We're hashtag the two friends, competitive advance that we have going for us and no other movie podcast. Sure. We're concerts in context here. You're all over the place.

Sorry, go on, go on. This is a podcast about filmography. Directors who had massive success early on in their career were granted a series of blank checks, and sometimes those checks cleared, and sometimes they bounced. Baby. Baby. I don't know. Yeah.

What's a submarine noise? No, I think that's it. Do. I don't know. Yeah. What's a submarine noise? No, I think that's it. Doong. Yeah, yes. Like a sonar noise or whatever. It appears that it's bouncing. The check is bouncing. But we are connoisseurs of context.

Even if I said it at the wrong time, it's true. Sure, yeah, yeah. Which is why we're talking about- It just feels like something you like blurred out in bed now. Like, you know, like you just say it at the weirdest times. Well, spoilers. Or someone's like, you're just like sitting in a chair with like a glass of whiskey in your old age. And someone's like, how you doing?

And you're like, we're connoisseurs of content. This is my series about the films of Catherine Bigelow. Sure. Big time Bigelow. Yeah, right. Bam, bam, Bigelow. Big daddy Bigelow. Sure. Big time Bigelow. Yeah, right. Bam Bam Bigelow. Big Daddy Bigelow.

Yeah. And we've gotten to that moment that everyone waits for when we get to the titular episode. The movie that inspired the name of our miniseries titled Pod 19, The Widowcaster. Great title. Hold for applause. Right. Yep. Order of Lennon is awarded.

And today we're talking about K-19, The Widowmaker, the film that almost destroyed Catherine Bigelow's career. Sure. Irreparably. I think destroyed her career. Not irreparably, but you know, whatever. And the movie that gave awful, awful Hollywood an excuse to not hire women directors for their blockbusters for a decade and a half. I think that's true.

This became the one that they went like, well, look, we gave Bigelow $100 million and it wasn't good, so clearly women can't make money. I guess so, but this was an independent movie. We'll get into that. Yes, which I think is the root of the problem with this movie is where the money came from. Yes, but yeah. I would argue. But God movie is where the money came from. Yes. But yeah. But God, do we have a guest today? Yep. He's neck and neck. We have three guests

who are beloved by our fans, by our blankies, who have done the same number of episodes. Is that right? Are you keeping track? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And fans wait. They pray. They hope that these guests will be coming back each miniseries

please let them in they found out what you're doing and they started posting about it on reddit do you know there was a reddit thread where they surmised from our twitter exchanges that you were doing this episode

and people upvoted it 25 times excitement that you were talking about this movie well they know I love little sailor boys I did the army boys last time that's true

we gotta think of an air Force movie to complete the trailer. Flyboys, come on. You're going to do an Ellison series, right? Yes. You know I'm best from the Lady in the Water episode. The Saving Private Ryan episode. Fuck, what's the other one?

Vanilla Sky. Vanilla Sky. Vanilla Sky. Vanilla Sky. Mm-hmm. But, An Air Force movie in its own way. Yes. Well,

Aloha is really the Air Force movie. Well, it is. It's true. About the sky. Yes. Uh, and,

and also, uh, this is writing for Vanity Fair and the podcast local man, uh, the great Richard Lawson. Hey guys. Has joined us in this too.

Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to talk about this one. I love Jim Belushi. I love dogs. I love comedy. It's a rare comedy for Catherine Bigelow, which I think is interesting. I didn't really get what you guys were going with the Harrison Ford thing because he's not in K-9. Oh, boy.

I love dogs. Are you pitching that as a new movie starring Richard Lawson? Yeah, I'm doing it with a different podcast network, though. Oh, sure, fair enough. My friend Jordan Fish, my old friend who's a listener of the show, so he'll appreciate the shout-out, has this movie idea that we always bat back and forth called Must Love Amores Perros. That's funny.

It's a movie about two people who, it's like a before a movie about two people who like it's like a before sunrise kind of movie of two people who go on a date to see Amores Peros the first date

and then spend the rest of the night arguing over whether or not the movie had value and whether or not Interact 2 would end up being

a substantial director and you're the two who would direct that movie yes that's self-regarding it's a comedy did you know

K9 is kind of like a deep impact Armageddon or like Bugs Life Ants? With Turner and Hooch. With Turner and Hooch. They came out within three months of each other. Yeah. Cop and dog movies. Like, why is it that this happens?

I don't know. But a flip of the coin between Belush and Hanks for who would capture America's heart is our great leading man of the next decade. And we all know how that turned out. Yeah. Oh, there it is. There they are. David's showing us a poster. I wish he had an astonishing number of leading vehicles.

I sometimes forget. Curly Sue, right? Mr. Destiny. Mr. Destiny. With Rene Russo, I believe, isn't that? Sure. And Michael Caine's in that one. Red Heat with Schwarzenegger?

The two-hand? Yeah, Red Heat, yeah. Yeah, Michael Caine's in Canine. Red Heat with Schwarzenegger? Yeah, Red Heat. Yeah, Michael Caine's in Canine. He was Jerry Lee the dog. That's Michael Caine 9. Homer and Eddie with Whoopi? I don't know what this movie is, but it's about

a homicidal escape mental patient with a brain tumor who meets a childlike mentally challenged man as a traveling companion. That's a movie that came out. Jim Belushi's been in more movies than Daniel Day-Lewis. He's been in an intense amount of movies. He's still making it.

He was fantastic in Twin Peaks. I know you guys haven't watched. He has become a really good character actor in his older age. I thought he was great in Call Me a Hero. I think he rules now, but it's weird how long they kept on being like, he's gonna make him a leading man. Sure.

They really wanted to. Yeah, they did. Like 10 straight years where John Belushi died and they were like, we need a Belushi top-lining picture. But who was famous in the Belushi vein that they were trying to model him after? Because he wasn't an original idea, right? He's not that handsome.

He's sort of like... He was like a schlubby kind of... Yeah. I guess there were other actors doing that. It's a good question, though. Who is the everyman? You go like Goodman's at one pillar. He's not as schlubby and blue-collar as Goodman.

Goodman's never been like a box office... Well, I guess in the King Ralph era... Tom Arnold wasn't around yet I guess maybe he was a little bit but it's almost like they wanted him equidistant between Goodman and Hanks in a spot that didn't really exist you have to like pick a lane

he's a little yeah I guess Belushi is a little butcher than Tom Hanks and a little bit skinnier than John Goodman you're not wrong. In terms of like temperament, it was like, he's not surly enough,

but he's also not like charming enough. Yeah. So this is a miniseries about the films of Jim Belushi. Yeah. So I watched K-9 by mistake, so I'm going to go watch K-19 now. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right. Ben, stop the podcast. Okay, and we're back. Oh, so it's about submarines. Okay. I stopped it. Poet Laureate, stop the podcast. Okay. Peeper, stop the podcast. All right, I we're back. So it's about submarines, okay. I stopped it. Poet Laureate, stop the podcast. Peeper, stop the podcast.

Alright, I'm stopping it. Are you our finest film critic? Sure. Then prove it by stopping the podcast. Okay, I did, and we're back. You know, I heard a rumor you graduate to certain titles over the course of different miniseries. That's true.

Like producer Ben Kenobi? Kylo Ben. Say Ben-y-thing. Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign. Ben Night Shyamalan. Ben Say. Warhaz. Purdue Urbane.

I did like a third of them. I know, you did a great job. Thank you. I'm not even mad at you. I'm just mad at us. Yeah. For doing this to ourselves. Do you have one for this yet?

No, I mean... We should say it. Leading the fan, like, the fans are all demanding it. It's terrible. I don't like it. They want us to call it. They're two varietals of the same joke. I don't think it's funny. I don't think it's funny either, but I do think all us having to say it every week,

I get the joke of that. Osama Ben-Hazl. Is what has been heavily debated are there some variations on that Osama Ben Laden Osama Ben Hazli Osama versus Osama but that's the main joke that everyone's

angling at yeah I don't know why that's what they've latched on to but there's definitely a drumbeat for that one. So, if you have any other ideas, please let us know. They didn't like the police mentality or something?

Hotel Benji. Oh, Jesus. Alright. Cut that out. All of it. Everything that's ever happened. Ben, keep it in. Double it. Great.

Sure. Point, Ben? Yeah. You know, Benny Utah. I don't know. Sure. The Herthauser?

Herthauser's not bad. That's not bad. That's actually okay. Herthauser? That's not desperate. Not bad. That's not the worst thing I've ever heard. Yeah. I definitely think we're safer if we not the worst thing I've ever heard. Yeah.

I definitely think we're safer if we go towards the early Bigelow films, rather than the ones that are dire and serious. That would be my argument about K-19, though, is that this is the fulcrum, right? Yes. Between her reputation as a genre director and her reputation is like a master of war realism.

Right. She has definitively turned a corner. She has stopped being fun but she hasn't figured out how to become engaging yet. Yes. You know? At least engaging in this vein. I mean, my joke on

Letterboxd or Twitter or wherever I post it was like, she's like, I made, my joke on Letterboxd or Twitter or wherever I posted was like, she's like, I made, with Point Break, the most fun movie, right? So why not try to make the least fun movie, right? Let's see if I can do the other. I would argue in some ways that she succeeded. Bang on target. Well done, Catherine. Radiation poisoning isn't fun.

Well, it's interesting. In the monologue that you did at the top of the show, Griffin, where the line about because it wasn't wartime and it was just an accident. It's like, right, so why did you make the movie? That's what I feel like. I mean, I went to the Wikipedia page and I cracked it open as I started the movie

and boy, did I struggle to get through this movie. Like, this was, I will admit, I did a little scrubbing at some parts. Because I was just like, Jesus fucking Christ. So I had a show last night and then went out for drinks afterwards and got home. But I'm an insomniac, as you guys know. So I got home pretty late, but I was like, I can watch this movie. I'm not going to fall asleep early, right?

Fell asleep within like 15 minutes. So just like fucking no-dos, right? This movie, or the opposite of no-dos, NyQuil, right? I was like, fucking out. Got a full eight hours, woke up, put the movie on, immediately fell asleep again within five minutes. So what I ended up having to do was I literally set my phone with an alarm for five minutes from that moment.

And every five minutes I'd have to turn off the snooze button because I was so worried I was going to continue falling asleep. And a couple times I did. Wow. That's the ideal movie watching experience. Yeah. I feel like. Yeah. Well, so I mean, A, you know, a big running thread in this podcast has been my inability to sleep. I think I finally found the solution.

That's true. There you go. I just need to buy K-19 The Widowmaker and put it on. Harrison Ford ordering endless drills. Yeah. And enunciating so well. Sure. Start the drill. You're talking about the Wikipedia Wikipedia I was reading the Wikipedia and the guy that Liam Neeson plays

was the one vote that didn't he was the one vote against launching a nuclear weapon during the Cuban Missile Crisis that sounds like a interesting movie he's a hero look at this guy, that guy is awesome I love this guy it That guy is awesome.

I love this guy. It is crazy how much the real guy looks like Harrison Ford. It is pretty cool. They got lucky with that one in a sense that they had a bankable iconic movie star. Well, except that the real guy was 35 years old when the thing happened. Well, but you know, Russians, they age like pears. They age like pears.

No, the thing I was going to say about the Wikipedia entry was I open it up to start watching the movie, and I see immediately it goes, a film depicting the first of many disasters involving K-19. Yeah, right. It's sort of a cursed sub, but we don't see the rest of the curse. We just see this incident. But what's weird is the movie starts, and they're like, hey, there's been some bad shit going on in the making of this sub, which is depicted.

Right, no, no, no. Then you see the first incident that happens before wartime, and then they don't decommission. K-19 was not decommissioned until 1991. Right, it went through the entirety of the rest of the Soviet Union and beyond. And like 20 more awful things happened. It's like if they ripped the Titanic out of the bottom of the ocean and just put it back on water.

And it just kept on happening over and over again. Like the K-19 Wikipedia page. You just gave James Cameron an idea. Yeah. The K-19 Wikipedia page for the actual sub reads like Groundhog Day. Well, the one that really, the women like gluing something onto something, six women died from fumes while making it. It is a pretty crazy story, but I just feel like she focuses on, I don't know.

Right, and the guy getting hit by the car at the beginning of it. People were dying in and out of the sub. Well, subs are, it's a recipe for disaster. There's no windows. You can't air them out. Only in Polish submarines, as the joke goes. Or no, screen door. That's a screen door.

I'm Polish. Sure. Yeah, great. K-19, The Widowmaker. No, but it is one of those things where you just go like, it's weird to make a movie out of this story and only make it this part of the story. Yeah. Like, because it's not wartime, because it's like someone just making a bad decision and

getting them fucked. Yeah. And then there's no real solution or resolution to it. It's just like, well, that was awful. Yeah. Yeah. Which actually, it's kind of like Detroit in that way. I mean, it's less urgent, obviously.

Sure. But it's like, oh, here's a terrible thing and then the movie ends. Yes, and it's like there's no ambiguity to the terribleness of the thing. Right. It's depicted as, you know, with sort of like care for like making it look

like it actually probably happened, right? They're trying to be journalistic about it. But yeah, so this is basically like, yeah, the thingy broke. A bunch of people went in there to fix it. That was bad for them. Horrible for them. No good. And then they surfaced and they got out of the

SUP. Yeah. Because it was shitty. And then most of them died. A lot of them died and the other ones who didn't, they had to keep quiet about it because, well, we'll just tell you that in a postscript though, so you won't see that. And that's it. It takes an hour plus for the

thingy to break. The first hour of the movie is drills, which nothing is more dramatically engaging than watching drills. Then seeing scenes that innately have zero stakes because it's a forced simulation. And they keep saying this is real. Well, the first scene tries to set up that it's not. Or the first drill, but then you're like, oh, wait, no, it's just taken.

And then you go like, right. Fool me once. Cool. Let's move on. Let's get to real stuff. And they do like six more drills. Drills are such a classic part of any submarine movie, right? There has to be some drill that's dramatic.

But it's just one. Exactly. Not eight. No. Isn't it weird that the submarine. I love submarine movies, by the way. I was so bummed out about how bad this movie was. I'm not crazy about submarine movies.

I'm fairly claustrophobic. It's one of my few kind of triggers. And I understand in a good submarine movie, that's what's being weaponized. Something like Das Boot is making a meal out of how uncomfortable it's going to make you feel and being in that thing. a meal out of how uncomfortable it's going to make you feel and being in that thing. It is weird, though, that this submarine movie is such, or was such, a prominent subgenre

for a while. That there was this amazing run of submarine movies, because it feels very specific. It is. What do you guys think of Crimson Tide? I haven't seen it in ages. I remember really liking it, and that score is great. Never seen it. I know people love it. I highly recommend Crimson Tide. What do you think about Down Periscope?

Well, which is now the second time I've mentioned that on this podcast. I believe last time you said that I wrote and directed it, which I did. You said a big fan. Yeah, you just said the truth. So I love Down Periscope. You know what movie I like? I think it's underrated. It's U571.

I think that's a good movie. That's Mossdow, is it? A Mossdow movie with McConaughey. And Bon Jovi and Bill Paxton. That's right. Yeah, you know, just the classic trio. Three amigos. I remember walking out of that movie when I was 12 because I was just like, I don't like submarine movies.

I went to see it because it was getting good reviews. I like that movie. Yeah, it's very claustrophobic. It's very sound-oriented. But it has stakes to it. I mean, obviously, there's very claustrophobic. It's very sound-oriented. But it has stakes to it. I mean, obviously, these Russian guys who died trying to save their comrades

and maybe the world, I don't know. Yes, of course, we should respect that, but there's no plot. That movie is kind of a ticking clock for it. Whereas K-19 is like,

they're fucked, and then they spend the movie wringing their hands over which of two bad options they should go with. Let the Americans save us. right right and it's this movie where the the yeah the crucial thing is that he finally ignores his duty to the country you know to whatever to the motherland right right to to save his men right and then gets fucked for it and i think there's something

interesting there but it's like so dramatically inert as like a viewer. The last 10 minutes or so when it flashes ahead to 1989 was the one section of the movie I found very engaging and reminded me the most of what Bigelow becomes in the next three movies.

Where it is really dealing with these men in this situation. Whereas, I mean I think we should start from the beginning. I know we're getting into these larger overview kind of things. But I think for the thing that Bigelow likes doing, what she's sort of become now of this fact-based kind of docudrama, the grayness of morality in high-stakes situations kind of like docudrama, you know, the grayness of, you know, morality and high-stakes situations kind of filmmaker and very detail-oriented, what's best for her is when she finds a really

clean character arc in the middle of it. And she's able to tell one person's story in the center of that with a good performance. Like you mean like Renner, Hurt Locker, Chastain, and Zero Dark Thirty? I argue the biggest issue with Detroit is she didn't pick one. She sort of picked one, but then she didn't quite commit to it. I think if she committed to one, that movie would work 25% better. We'll get to that

in a future episode. Yeah, that we all can't wait to record. Everyone's looking forward to us talking about that. It's going to be a party. You want to come back? I'll bring the drinks. But this movie, you're dealing with stoic Russian men who are afraid to show any level of emotion. And there's no effort with the young sailors to, like, there's no, like, follow car for us. You know, like, there's no in.

Which you think that's what they're setting up Sarsgaard to be. When he shows up and I hadn't seen this movie and I go, oh, man, a fresh-faced young Sarsgaard full of life. That feels like what he's going to be. And it's like, no, he's just a plot function. Sure. But then. He's barely a character. Right.

He's just like the, what's it, Donald Sumter character where it's like, you are a nuclear technician. Yes. He's like, oh yeah, well, I've never actually worked on one before. And Donald Sumter's the doctor who's like, I've never been in a boat. I get seasick. Like we're supposed to like fall about laughing. His job is just to. Oh no. like, I've never been in a boat. I get seasick. Like, we're supposed to, like, fall about laughing. His job is just to, like... Oh, no!

Like, I don't... Right, like, he's the rat guy in the abyss. Like, that's going to be a quirk. But, like, Sarsgaard's job is just to explain how things are fucked. Like, he's the translator going, like, this is why we're all going to die. Right, right, exactly.

I guess Belushi has kind of a good character in this. I mean, he's sort of... He does really love that dog. But that's all... I mean, that's... Right, it's a two-hander. You can't give him all the credit because the performance is... I mean, he's kind of Ginger Rogers. Yeah, that's right.

I've always thought that. You've always thought that the dog character just does a... Is the a stare? Right, right, right. And Belushi makes it look easy, but really backwards and in heels. Kinsey's in this movie from Mad Men.

Oh, and also Kinsey from Kinsey. The two Kinseys are in this one. Oh, wow. Hashtag the two Kinseys. There's a young actor who has a few lines. He's one of the people who goes into the repair thing.

Sure. I think James Ginty is his name. Yeah. Let me find him. And he is a colleague. He's a teacher at Chapin and my friend knows him. They're on the faculty together.

And I was like, do you know this guy? He's quite handsome. Yeah, he was in Surrogates. He was a big role inin, and my friend knows him. They're on the faculty together. And I was like, do you know this guy? He's quite handsome. Yeah, he was in Surrogates. He was a big role in that. Surrogates. With Bruce Willis and Rosamund Pike. Which is a weird fucking movie.

Oh, and so he was at, speaking of Chastain. And you know who directed Surrogates, by the way? Jonathan Mostow. Jonathan Mostow. Oh, wow. A little circle. But he was at Juilliard in Chastain's class and he left Juilliard

to do this movie, to do K-19. To do K-19? Yep. And Chastain was like, now I'm going to chill. She'll come to me. Yeah, exactly.

Give her 10 years. She's going to watch Chastain. But the thing I was going to say, I think one of the disastrous elements of this movie is, A, you know, not suited for Bigelow's approach because her stripped down

like brass tacks kind of approach doesn't work when you don't have an emotional center which this story doesn't provide and b having harrison ford play this part is a nightmare because this is when he was starting to get into his like mr wilson like I don't want to have any fun on screen you know what was going on with him this is the beginning of the end I guess it already started to

let's do the Ford no I think this is the beginning because he basically has he's done one bad movie Random Hearts I would argue Random Hearts oh wait this is a selected filmography

let me get to the real filmography yeah because I this is the main thing I want to talk about with this movie it is a really interesting yeah here's Ford

so yeah in the early 90s he's got the Fugitive he's got the two Jack Ryan movies right he's still like This is the main thing I want to talk about with this movie. It is a really interesting... Here's Ford. So yeah, in the early 90s, he's got The Fugitive, and he's got the two Jack Ryan movies, right? He's still like Harrison Ford, and he's transitioning nicely into Salt-N-Pepa Harrison Ford. I also think he was in Star Wars, right? Phantom Menace? I don't think so. No, the...

One of the later episodes? The sequel trilogy, yeah. I guess so. Han so. No, the sequel trilogy. I guess so. Han Solo. But that's the crazy thing is, in this day and age, you look at Jennifer Lawrence's career, right? She's got two huge franchises,

and then more and more her movies outside those franchises aren't really working. The Russell ones did for a while, right? She's picking some bad projects. Right, and she remains kind of the biggest star we have today. I don't know. Is she going to do a Bad Russian accent on that? Oh. Samus Harrison?

They should retell that movie Bad Russian and make it part of the loose Bad Grandpa. Sure. Bad Judge. Bad Teacher. Bad Judge. Where do we go? Bad Garbage Man?

How far do we have to go in this franchise? Bad person. I'm seeing a sitcom on CNN every night called Bad President. Have you ever seen that one? It's like Bad President. Is Belushi in that? Is Jimmy... Oh, fuck.

I forgot what the name of the dog is already. It's named after the great... Jerry Lee. That's what he's called. Is the name of the dog in K-19? Yeah, Jerry Lee. No, K-9. No, the name of the dog in Cop and a Half.

Jim Belushi probably would do a good job. That was Burt Reynolds. That was Sally Field. No, that's our shortstop. What was I fucking saying? Harrison Ford. Oh, what I was saying is, we have people like that.

Or like Downey Jr. who's humongous but doesn't really do movies outside of Marvel. You know, we have all these conditional movie stars like Vin Diesel who like writes his own check with Fast and Furious

and then when he makes like Last Witch Hunter I'm the only one who sees it three times in theaters. You saw that three times in theaters? I didn't. I saw it once. I was exaggerating

but it's really good. It's okay. It's fun. It's fun. That movie's fun. I'd say it's the best movie ever based off of anyone's Dungeons and Dragons campaign. Well, yeah. It's between. It's fun. That movie's fun. I'd say it's the best movie ever based off of anyone's Dungeons & Dragons campaign.

Well, yeah, it's between that and Regarding Henry, which was a Harrison Ford picture. That was based on Annette Bening's Dungeons & Dragons. Few people know. Five commentators. Oh, boy. But Ford, I was like, does Ford really have that that many hit movies or was it really like Star Wars? And no, he's got hit movies.

He's got three Star Wars. He's got three Indiana Jones. And then he's got like seven or eight other huge movies and like four or five other like good, like doubles or triples. I'm going to give you his nineties because now you're disrespecting Harrison Ford. No, I'm saying I went back through today and realized how much I had been disrespecting him. I now have paid penance

and realized dude had a fucking unbelievable run. Yeah, because Regarding Henry is a bomb. Okay, fine. But like Presumed Innocent was a big hit. Sure. That's 1990. Regarding Henry, that's a bit of a bomb. But then Patriot Games is a nice solid double. Now he's got his third franchise. Right. And then The Fugitive is a sensation.

That's a big major hit. Clear and Present Danger does better than Patriot Games. It makes $122 million in 1994. Then you got Sabrina the remake, which is a terrible movie. And it's loathed. People hate that movie. It's so bad. And even that made $50 million.

Even that didn't totally bomb. You got two flops there. His two flops are working with Mike Nichols and Sidney Pollack. Right, yeah. It's not like a weird choice. Remaking Sabrina was an odd choice. I agree. That's a weird movie. You got like three hits in between each flop, and the flops are

commendable flops. And it was huge for Melissa John Hart, so it wasn't a complete failure. I love that talking cat. Right, exactly. That was a big breakthrough for Greg Kinnear, playing Salem. He went from talk suit to Salem. That's right. Yeah. Julia Ormond was Zelda.

Then he made The Devil's Zone, which was a bomb. I mean, let's not talk about The Devil's Zone. But then in 1997, Air Force One, which is the greatest movie ever made. Wasn't there some scandal with Devil's Zone though? Well, because it's about the IRA. It was very controversial in Britain. I can't remember why. And that's Bakula. And it was a really tortured production, I think, or something.

Bakula died during post-production, right? Was it Pakula? I think that was Pakula. Yeah, it's Alan Pakula. I think he died in post-production. He had one of those freak deaths where he was behind, like, a truck with rebar on the back

and it came loose and, like, impaled him. You mean, like, fucking Femme Fatale or Baby Driver? Yeah. He literally got killed by, like, the cargo of the truck in front of him while parked. Yeah. I'm trying to find out if this is true because that just stopped the podcast for me.

Really? I don't think he died during the Devil's Zone because it's not on the Devil's Zone page. You'd think they'd bring that up. But yes, that is how he died not long after. He was impaled by rebar, right? He was in a car accident on the LIE yeah a metal pipe

struck him in the head yeah anyway so Devil's Zone and then Air Force One huge hit right get off my plane

that's such a good movie it's a great movie that's the other movie I've thought about doing for the sibling episode actually keep you need to talk about that with you that's the other movie

Joey and I are obsessed with and we've seen a million times then Six Days Seven Nights you guys are such a big Wendy Crewson fans the sibling episode. I actually keep meaning to talk about that with you. That's the other movie Joey and I are obsessed with. And we've seen a million times. Then Six Days, Seven Nights. You guys are such big Wendy Crewson fans. Great pull. We're big Liesel Matthews fans. Six Days, Seven Nights

is like a double or a triple. It made $74 million. It's quite bad. Right. It may be a minor disappointment, but like... But here's my argument. Small for Ford,

big for Schwimmer. But here's... Now now let's think about the six day seven nights trailer okay and i'm just trying i want to talk about harrison ford's persona like you're talking yeah you know the do you remember the the big line from the trailer no she they're playing crash on an island i don't even know what they're playing crash on an island. Get off my island. I don't even know what they're doing. They're plane crashed on an island, right? Right, they spent six days, seven nights. And she's like, can't we fix it? Like, can't we fix the plane?

Like, the wing has been sheared off. And he's like, sure, we'll just glue it back on. And it's like, all right, look, you've been in a plane crash. Be nicer to NH. He did three plane crash movies in a row. He did. He loves a plane crash. But that's.

And like, so it's like, why are you so mad, Harrison? Like, he's so grumpy all of a sudden. When people try to recreate Harrison Ford, I think the thing they always forget when they prime someone is like, this is the new Harrison Ford, which I think they mostly stopped doing now. But it certainly used to happen a lot. The thing they forget is that Harrison Ford used to be really funny. Like, what worked is that he had a sort of easy going humor in these larger spectacles you know

and it came from him being a bit of a crank but when that crank becomes a curmudgeon right I mean cause you're it's a fine line

cause of course like Fugitive the Jack Ryan movies yes he's always been a stoic guy yeah and then going back to like pre-Star Wars like post-American graffiti

like where he was gonna quit and just be a carpenter I feel like he's always hated acting and then going back to pre-Star Wars, post-American graffiti, where he was going to quit and just be a carpenter. I feel like he's always hated acting and he never wanted to do it. But then when Indiana Jones came along and that worked and other things worked, you can tell that he brightens up. When he was 36 and doing that, it was kind of funny because it was like, why is this old guy so over it? This young guy, rather. Why doesn't he want to be in a Star Wars movie?

And then it gets to the point where you're like, well, if you don't't want to be in it just don't be in it because i'm just trying to enjoy the movie which i think is what he quickly decides after k19 he's like you know what maybe i should just not be in race for a while i clearly know who's getting anything out of it because after is random hearts which you clearly want to talk about another sydney pollack movie i just doesn't remember movie. I remember walking by a random Hart's billboard on the street with my dad. And my dad's saying like,

that's going to be a big hit. I went like, really? Why is that going to be a big hit? He went, because it's Harrison Ford. And I was like, I don't even know what it's about. No one wants to see that. And he's like, it's Harrison Ford. All Harrison Ford movies do well. Sure. He had that Tom Hanks reputation. Right. You know, occasionally there's a misstep, but it's probably autopilot.

It's going to make 70. He was very surprised when it didn't do well. It was like, huh. The Bloom was kind of off the rose at that point. That was the moment where I just felt like he never really rebuilt it after that. I think everyone kind of just shrugged it off. Then K-19, because it was him in such a big

high-stakes summer release, that's when everyone really started to like and and what lies beneath came in between those two and that was right that was a model but he played a murderer in it right you know and then he went right into k19 and then it was like oh he's just dark and grim all the time now right but yeah what lies beneath was a big hit and then but i feel like that wasn't really about him do you know what i mean i think that was effective trailers, and Michelle Pfeiffer was big at the time. Zemeckis was big. No one thinks of that as a Harrison Ford movie. No.

Which is weird, because every other Harrison Ford movie is definitely a Harrison Ford movie. Sure. That's like a movie he's in. I mean, Morning Glory, absolutely. A Harrison Ford movie. I have argued before. I need an egg from a chicken. And we'll continue to argue.

On this podcast, you should be nominated for an Oscar for Morning Bar. It's like Mike Kate Hudson in Something Borrowed. I will never give up that fight. I think that's a good argument. Yeah, you're right. What Lies Beneath comes after Random Hearts. Just FYI. That's a big hit. We were just saying.

Then K-19. Hollywood Homicide. Hollywood Homicide and Firewall. Actually, forget Firewall. Hollywood Homicide, he steps away for three years. Hollywood Homicide is a three and Firewall no actually forget Firewall because that's like Hollywood Homicide he steps away for three years Hollywood Homicide is a three

Firewall is a six and Hollywood Homicide is a really like repugnant movie I don't know if you guys have ever seen it I've never seen it but I remember that reputation

why is it gross it's kind of racist and it's just like it's just like really unpleasant it's like two white guys investigating the rap world of LA

and it's fucking Ron Shelton right I mean like there's nothing there's nothing good there. No. Yeah, then he takes three years away and it was like, is he ever going to come back?

Is he ever going to make a movie? Right, and then when he came back with Firewall, everyone was like, Ford's back, but that movie was such a flop that it was like, oh, forget it.

And wasn't Firewall like Virginia Madsen's big post-Sideways follow-up? Yes, that was her big paycheck. But I remember people being like, like my dad again, being like, that's going to automatically make $100 million

just because there's like a Harrison Ford nostalgia. Like it's going to sleepwalk to 100. And then everyone just went like, I don't know. We don't need this guy anymore. Then he brings back old Jonesy. Right. He brings back Jonesy and that movie is a huge hit.

Yeah. I mean, no question, right? But everyone's like, it feels like he doesn't want to be doing it anymore. a huge hit. Yeah. I mean, no question, right? But everyone's like, he doesn't want to be doing it anymore. It's true. Yeah, I don't know. He's a hard one to figure out because we've talked about it. He obviously likes playing Indiana Jones. He's always like,

I'll do another one. He also loves money and has a massive stake in that franchise. He loves money. The man fucking loves money. Openly talks about it. He's a businessman who hates what he does for a living. Do you know? But the money is so good. He loves money. The man fucking loves money. He's a businessman who hates what he does for a living. But the money is so good. He's just on the Metro North heading to the city

like, gotta do it today. Then he goes home and smokes a bunch of pot and crashes another plane into a mountain just to feel alive or whatever it is he's doing. That click whole series about him and his mishaps is so good. What's funny is then when he comes back

after Indiana Jones then he's just like I'll be in your movie extraordinary measures crossing over crossing over Morning Glory

the one with Hemsworth Paranoia is it Paranoia? it's called Paranoia with him and Hemsworth it's the younger Hemsworth Gary Oldman's in that one right?

yeah Liam Hemsworth and Amber Heard right and the director of Legally Blonde and in Paranoia he throws Gary Oldman's in that one, right? Yes. Yeah, Liam Hemsworth and Amber Heard? Right, from the director of Legally Blonde. And in Paranoia, he throws Gary Oldman out of an airplane

just for old times sake. Yeah, they were like, we gotta do this again. But Paranoia, I think, opened outside of the top 10. Yeah,

I mean, that movie was buried. Suddenly he doesn't mean anything. He did do Cowboys and Aliens, which was, I guess, more of him being the star of a big genre picture,

but that was a disaster. But it felt like he hated that movie and his shit talked it since in the press. Yeah, 42, Ender's Game. He's in an Expendables. 42 he got sort of like decent notices for, I feel like. He's okay in that. I think he's a little ham sandwich-y. He's a little ham-y.

That movie is not great. Sure. You know, that movie's a real by the numbers. But that movie like really helped Boseman. Like Boseman popped hard out of that, and everyone was just like, okay, Harrison, good job. Then he was in a movie that

I believe only one of us at this table has seen. You know what I'm talking about. Are we talking about Age of Adaline? Yeah, talking about the Age of Adaline. You guys haven't seen Age of Adaline? No, and I keep meaning to. So good. I went to the premiere.

Blake Lively is actually magic to behold. I don't think she's a great actress, but she is stunning. He's good in it. He Lively is actually magic to behold. I mean, I don't think she's a great actress, but she is stunning. He's good in it. He's really good in it, actually. I assume he's only in some of it, right? Because he's like an older version of whatever. Right.

He's the older version of a lover she had when she was younger, but she's ageless, you know. But he's actually really good in it, and he's really committed to it, and it's a really bizarre role for him to do. And he looks, from the trailers, he looked kind of... You haven't seen it, right? No. I was right. I kind of always want to see it it's so it's worth seeing

it's a weird movie he looked really earnest in the trailer which I liked it felt like his wall was kind of down it's complete it's this open romantic

like it's emotional thing so I like Lee Tolan-Krager a lot I think he's good and doesn't get credit it's a really sincere movie and it's so rare to see

and it's and he's part of that. So I don't know. I think it's worth seeing. Why do you like Lee Tull? Do you like Celeste and Jesse I think Celeste and Jesse is very good and the other one

he did The Vicious Kind I think is really good with Adam Scott. He's got style. He's got style and he's really good with actors. He was hired to make

the fourth Diversion movie but that is TBA. Yeah. That's not going to happen. I don't know. I saw Shailene on my TV just last night. She didn't see her on hers because she doesn't have one. She doesn't have one.

She just watches in my pile. Although, as someone pointed, was it you pointing out that most people that age don't have television? I know. So it's actually not that big of a deal. That doesn't mean anything. This is post-Emmys. Right. Yeah.

She doesn't have a TV, but she has six tablets. Right. What do you mean? She does have a microchip in her head. Right. She has FX Now. She is the one who eats dirt all day it's Clay

I'm so sorry she's a gummy bear you know the gummy bears? she lives underground and just pops up that's like the weird Harrison Ford thing you and I both argue that he is re-engaged in Force Awakens. Some people think he isn't, but I think he's in it.

Totally. I think he's really excited to be in that movie because he feels like he has a handle on Han Solo's arc in that movie. And I think he's funny again in that movie. I think he's got a light comedic touch in that movie. I think he just, you can tell, I mean, he always complained about in Return of the Jedi he felt like he didn't know what the fuck the point of Han Solo

was anymore, right? Like, what's he even doing in this movie he's just like helping some Ewoks like what am I doing and like then later it's funny to hear him in these interviews where he's like I was probably being a dick asking George Lucas to kill me off like I get now that maybe that was rude of me but I just wanted something

that you know I wanted to have something to hold on to so obviously with Force Awakens he was like yeah now I know what I'm building this towards. But I know I mean he's one of those guys for me who like is capable of being so great and is capable of being so lazy like Bruce Willis falls in this category too where I'm always just like pulling for

them to just like get it back and jump back in the pocket even if it's only for a movie or two and it would like you know you just wonder like. You look at his guys they're gone like Sidney Pollack doesn't make movies anymore you know like I think Harris

well yeah still I think he could maybe make an effort you know yeah right he's got a couple things in development

but I don't know if they're going they're in turnaround I just I feel like all his favorite directors Bakula who could really

get something out of him right Wolfgang Peterson hey man he's great in Air Force One he's great i love that movie nickels uh yeah right i mean some of these people are dead look we're gonna let's be honest um so and like abrams figured it out with him but he had to like crush his leg first so maybe maybe that jolted him awake i don't know and i feel like he and spielberg are just so locked into that one world. It's not like,

I don't think they would do a different thing together. Spielberg's never put him in anything else, right? He's never been in anything else. I wonder if they just have a very business relationship and maybe socially just don't. Yeah, maybe they don't get along because Harrison Ford seems like a creepy weirdo. Yeah, right.

Who just wants to cut wood in the forest. He gets along with Calista Flockhart, I suppose. He gets along with Calista. I'm happy for him. It would be though, if Harrison Ford were in Lincoln. You know? Sure. God damn it, Lincoln. Yeah.

Get off my wagon. That would be his line. God damn it, Lincoln. But in a Russian accent, for some reason. What's his accent here? What's he doing? What is anyone's accent? Some of them are doing thicker ones, it's very confusing

it does not help that a lot of the miscellaneous crewmen on the submarine are really Russian very Russian faces and very easy Russian accents and then you have Sarsgaard, Neeson, and Ford three people with very distinct voices that are

very tied to their own like dialects and lilts and do not mask easily. No. So this is a movie about a nuclear submarine called K-19. The Widowmaker.

It was the first nuclear submarine. And it was never actually called The Widowmaker. They made that up. They made that up. It was called Hiroshima because it's a hilarious joke about how it melted

people's faces off. I'll say negative five comedy points for that. Like the Soviets. Hazashima? Yeah. Let's get him in there. No. You want to say that every week?

Oh, you want to object all of a sudden? I retract that. I'm sticking with. Osama bin Hazar. Herd Hazar. Herd Hazar. Her Bin Hazar Herdhauser Herdhauser Yes K-19 Yeah

It's a time Look There's a race to The titles tell us Right There's a race to get Nuclear submarines to the US As ahead of them in the Cold War

They Nuclear submarines are thought to be The sort of front lines Of this tension Right So the Russians are like We gotta get one out We gotta get it tested We gotta make sure That we can fire a missile From one of these things Right So tension. So the Russians are like, we gotta get one out, we gotta get it tested,

we gotta make sure that we can fire a missile from one of these things. So that's what the movie is essentially about until things go wrong. And it's 1961. And then it becomes not about that because they're too busy dealing with other stuff. Right. It's like the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis around the corner. It's like a heated point in the Cold War. On many sides.

Neeson is a captain beloved by his crew. Then Ford comes in because the suggestion is he married someone in the Cold War. On many sides. Neeson is a captain beloved by his crew. Then Ford comes in because the suggestion is he married someone in the Politburo's daughter. So he has more status. Doesn't Neeson fuck something up right at the beginning? I'm trying to remember now. The way he's fucking stuff up is that he

cares too much about his crew. You have to serve the country. It's like, work them like dogs. They're kind of setting up a Washington versus Hackman thing, right? Yes, right. Like that that's going to be the central tension of the movie, except then it's not. The problem is that both of them are so stoic.

Like, Neeson is so stoic in this. They're setting up like, he's the softy. He can't get his humanity out of the way. And then he's like, I care about these men. You know? And you're just like, well, these are just two boring dudes fighting for the whole film. But we've skipped over the moment you're just like, well, these are just two boring dudes fighting for the whole film. But we've skipped over

the moment where I just went, oh, fuck. Like, I am not going to enjoy watching this. Go on. Which happens even before.

When they're like, your partner is a dog. Even before the like, opening sort of like, crawl that we just explained, right? Yeah. In the opening credits

of the movie, even before that, the National Geographic logo comes up and I go, oh, fuck, that's what this movie is. Right, right. And that's the weird anomalous thing about this movie

was this was National Geographic trying to make a blockbuster. And so it was independently financed largely through them and foreign companies at a budget that is rumored to be between $90 million and $100 million. At the time,

they were really spreading around that 100 million word because they wanted the brownie points of, we gave a woman $100 million, we're the first ones. Hoorah, hoorah. And now the legend has kind of gone like, eh, maybe it was like 92. Like maybe it was like a hair under. Sure.

But this movie feels like, even from the moment those like inner titles start, like, oh shit, this is just the most expensive National Geographic special ever. It feels like really, really high production value reenactments that should have been intercut with a talking head going like, the men didn't know what to do. Some grizzled old Russian just being like, yeah.

It feels like the only way this thing would be emotionally engaging is if you had a historian explaining to you at certain points how they felt because dramatically it's so inert. Right, because it's set in a very rigid command

structure that is largely obeyed. Right, two men who are different shades of rigid. And a political ideology that in some ways denies individualism. People have pointed this out. It's a fundamentally bad idea. They all call each other comrade.

We're all the same and we have one motivation shared between us. It's about a machine that breaks essentially. It's a metaphor for communism. It's a problem that can't be solved. It's definitely a machine that breaks, essentially. Right. And then they try to fix the machine. It's a metaphor for communism. I guess so. And like... It's a problem that can't be solved.

There's definitely a metaphorical thing where it's like, yeah, they're throwing their bodies, like they're sacrificing themselves for this great ideal. And then at the end, it's clear like the ideal will fail them. Like there is nothing for them. Okay. I mean, I've never cared about anything as much as these guys love their sub they do love their they're throwing their bodies on nuclear waste to save this fucking ship i just i could not get on board yeah yeah no i i i felt much the same way i just could i didn't feel the the pull

of like why i mean i understand why we should care because they were real people and they you know whatever but sure yeah no but it's like why'd you make this movie look yeah you know it's I don't understand how this movie was made like it's just so confusing why is this the movie but it's also I mean that's the movie suffers from being like a bottle episode where like 95 percent of it takes place within the submarine and you're given so little context for these people other than just saying like they say this man is this they say he is that right we're just like there there is no effort put into exploring the sort of psychology of living happily you know or or so it seems within like a communist society right and feeling that selfless you know in the name of this greater ideal so you just have to take it for granted

that all these men like appreciate the submarine more than their lives. But it's a shitty submarine. They had to build it fast. Yeah. Like, right? I mean, isn't that sort of... Everyone says it's fucked from the get-go. The champagne doesn't even crash.

Like the whole movie... It's true. Actually, yeah, that's an early scene where the champagne doesn't break and they're like, we are cursed. And that really happened. That really happened. And then there's this sort of...

There's this Paul over the movie. I mean, not just because of that. It's already there, but that's sort of part of it. And then you're like, yeah, this, and the Paul never lived. The movie opens with a bad drill and they go like, well, this crew sucks. And it's like, well, but the good news is the submarine is also poorly built. So then they try to fix the crew, but it's like, well, let's swap out a piece of shit for a pile of diarrhea.

Right? Sure. Like they keep on like getting these like, wacky fucking, like, bad news bears crew members. Because the head of the reactor core or unit, whatever, is found drunk by Harrison Ford and he fires him on the spot and Neeson's like, well, no,

wait, wait, wait, this guy actually knows what he's doing. And they're like, nope, nope, get the kid in. So, Sarsgaard comes in, he's, like, just graduated from school. And you're like, but the sub is broken. Like, they don't, like, that's not good good that doesn't make any sense to me because like yeah harrison ford's like who is what is this he's literally drunk asleep slumped over and like to me i'm watching the movie i'm like yeah no i mean you know maybe fire that does seem pretty bad and liam neeson's like he's never done anything like this before. And I'm like, he went from nothing to asleep.

Basically in the nuclear reactor. With like a comically large bottle of vodka in his hand. He's just having a bad day. And like, no, this is what happened in real life. This is history. So it's not like, oh, you should have written that differently. But also, why would you choose to like dramatize this? Because

it's like, the Titanic, everyone was like, this ship's gonna fucking rule. And then they were like, well, we were wrong. And in this, it's like the Titanic everyone was like this ship's gonna fucking rule and then they were like well we were wrong and in this they were like this ship sucks and they were like let's just keep on sticking with it.

Right. And that's the plot over and over again in this movie. There's no twist. Everyone knows it's bad and they keep on doubling down even though it only gets worse.

They keep being like hey maybe we should not do this and he's like no we will do it. Titanic is set up in such a way that like there's an accumulation of it sort of like

oh and then this happened and then that you know and I suppose there is in K-19 as well but it all feels pretty arbitrary it's like there's a moment of kind of triumph and then all of a sudden oh the thing ruptures and now everyone's fucked yeah that's the thing when it breaks it's just like well now everything's bad there's not a sense

of build toward that at all that's like the genius When it breaks, it's just like, well, it's broken. It's just like, well, now everything's bad. There's not a sense of build toward that at all. No, because that's like the genius of Titanic is that the first half of the movie is like a romance and is like, you know, this kind of comedy of manners before like the sinking shit happens and you're on the hook at that point. Yeah. And this movie is just about a fucked submarine that everyone keeps on committing to. Yeah. It's a broken boat.

Titanic has like levels and it takes you up and down through the ship and it's... Whereas the submarine is just... It's a tube. It's oppressive. Which I know is the idea, but if you don't care about the people in the submarine,

that's just like, this is a slog. The good boat movies get you into like the life on the boat. Like Master and Commander, the greatest boat movie ever made, but also like Crimson Tide.

Like the movies that are like, here's how everything works here. And K-19 is like, no, it's a machine. It's just a everything works here and k19 is like no it's a machine it's just a shitty machine right right it's white squall it's a good boat movie i've never seen white squall i've seen it yeah well it's got some it's got some boys i like that movie in high school bridges boys yep yep um but uh yeah i don't know it's like it's also long also the scenes where so when the reactor ruptures or whatever the hell it is the coolant thing

yeah they have to go in and try to fix it those scenes are excruciating it's just group of people after group of people

going in just having your skin burned off and like in agony and then throwing up and then passing out and it's that for 25 minutes which is again like Bigelow's probably thinking

like well this is this is what happened because I get the feeling with her you know you wonder like i i didn't see it on wikipedia like inception wise with this movie like so national geographic is putting together all this funding 100 million dollars whatever so that what do you what do you think they just put an offer out to her and she's like well the money's good and i'm in i'm interested to see if i can do it because i don't really feel any sense of passion no she was definitely in a rough point in her career because she had Strange Days,

which was not a hit, and then The Weight of Water, which was a bomb. So maybe she's like, sure, Harrison Ford, that'll work, right? I think she was on the back of her heels. I think being able to break through that glass ceiling and make something of that scale, I think was appealing to her.

You don't feel much attachment to the material. You do feel like her starting to develop this obsessive, meticulous detail kind of thing, which I mean, I just imagine she really liked researching this movie and didn't love directing this movie. Yeah, and I think that's fair. I also just think

like, who why did they think there was an American audience for this movie? Why indeed. We still obviously have hangouts with the Russians and now we're going to spend two hours. I don't know. It just feels like an odd financial gamble. With a story that has no emotional center

and also has no sense of victory. It doesn't even have that much allegorical power. Where brave, helpful Americans are mooned. How dare they. It doesn't even have that much allegorical power. Where brave, helpful Americans are mooned. Right, right. Craftily. How dare they?

They just came to lend a hand, but they got a butt. They got a couple cheeks. But I think there was some appeal to the fact that this story had recently been uncovered, right? It only comes out in the 90s. That was the thing, I think. I feel like there's a

2002 is a little late for this but still there's like we're still learning like all the secrets of all these weird Soviet stories of like nuclear missiles that almost went off and God knows what else how close we came it's similar to Victoria and Abdul in that way a recently uncovered story

no it is it's true no one knew about it have you seen it? Yeah. This will post a long time from now. Can I ask Richard? Is it charming? I mean, it has its moments. It looks like it has its moments. You know, it's Stephen Furst directing an old lady. He's good at that these days.

Or whatever. Watching a colonial subject, a colonized subject, literally kiss the feet of his colonizer and be really happy about it yeah it's not like the best optics but you know

sure sure she's not getting an Oscar nomination no no no that's not going anywhere right no I don't think so I mean I didn't hear a peep about it out of Toronto

I know we were in Toronto and no one even like bothered to see it I saw Women Walks Ahead for crying out loud how was that it was not great you know what I was

you know what I was sad that didn't get a lot of traction out of Toronto was Stronger. It's so good. I think it's a great movie. I would say it's really good. It's fucking Griffin. You're going to like it.

It'll be out by the time this podcast comes out. Oh, yeah. It looks like my kind of thing. It's out next week, I think. Oh, really? Okay. Oh, really?

Yeah. It's really good, but I don't think it's going to. We're recording this episode in 2013, by the way. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Does he sing that in the movie?

Of course. It's the whole movie. Exactly. He just does it over and over again. And by the end, people are like, stop, no more. It's great. No, but I think those were the things.

I think for whatever reason, and I couldn't find, I was like trying to research and figure out like what was this initiative where National Geographic decided they were going to make tent poles? Like what was that? You know?

Did they just have a lot of money all of a sudden? Like what the fuck happened? Yeah, were they? I don't know. And this is it. And they never did it again? This was like it, I think.

Yeah. This movie was a bomb. Humongous flop. Like, you know, yeah. But this is a weird first story other than that thing of like this is a recently uncovered thing

and you can imagine people like rushing to try to figure out they were rushing along to try to figure out an angle on it right but the fact that it was like developed by people who didn't have experience making movies before knowing what audiences would like but you also have to imagine there was this run of like from whatever it was like

89 to like 2001 you have like Crimson Tide, U571 and Red October which are like three really successful you know like U571 Red October and Red October which are like three really successful you know like U571 was like a surprise

like spring smash true and the other two were like full stop blockbusters and I think it felt like virile territory that's fine to do a submarine movie

but the story isn't the number four movie on Box Office Mojo's submarine is this movie right exactly so it is a fall off right they looked at the three

Down Periscope is number five. Hey. Das Boot is number six. I know. Hey, I've made the top five. But it's like, they thought like,

I guess what people like is submarines. Right. And it's like, no, what people liked were the people in those submarines. Right. In the same way that like people, I mean,

you know, a friend of mine has a question. She's like, would you rather be underwater in a submarine or be in space in a spaceship? Cause both to me are fucking terrifying. Sure. But like, that's kind of the appeal of a lot of space movies too. Is's like, would you rather be underwater in a submarine or be in space in a spaceship? Because both to me are fucking terrifying. But that's kind of the appeal of a lot of space movies too. Is that these people are contained

and trapped. It's not about how the goddamn thing works really. Maybe that is partly sunshine or something. This is a movie about how the thing works. And the answer is it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Both the movie and the ship. The movie's like a pretty good the submarine and the issues with the submarine The movie's like a pretty good...

The submarine and the issues with the submarine in the film are a pretty good metaphor for the movie. Yeah. Right. Where it's... Well, also, what we should note, they paid Harrison $20 million to be in this movie. Which is not, like, outrageous.

How much did they pay Neeson, do we know? That's a good question. Where was he at at this point? You know what? Let's actually dig into Liam Neeson. He's post-Phantom Menace. I would guess he got like 10. I think they overpaid everyone in this movie is my guess.

So Liam Neeson, you know, he's got his, after Schindler's List. Oh, yeah. And this was a few years after Qui-Gon Jinn. Right. So after Schindler's List, he got Nell. Rob Roy. Rob Roy. Michael Collins. Right. so he's making these big

prestige pictures even if none of them are like really going anywhere home runs yeah uh before and after oh boy with meryl streep people really do not talk about that one i saw that in the theater uh then les miserables yeah where he's john valjean very sort of serious sort of boring Billy August however you say his name and this is his real like kind of historical like hero

I think after Schindler's List right that's what they pigeonhole him as and then The Haunting which is him trying

I think bust a move and have some fun but that movie is torture to watch but that was also like clearly one of those things where he had

shot Phantom Menace they knew he was the lead of the new Star Wars movie and were like let's put him in some blockbusters. Yeah. Yann DeBond. Yann DeBond baby. I killed Yann DeBond's career. Right. And this movie is that midpoint before. I want to get to it though because then he has

Phantom Menace 99. Right. Obviously that's a big hit. In 2000 there's Gun Shy which is one of the weirdest movies ever made. The Sandra Bullock. Sandra Bullock, Oliver Platt where Liam Neeson plays like a hitman with ibs oh sure it sounds like my kind of i know have you never seen gun shy it is weird okay uh huge bomb and then i mean attack of the clones he's not in that so it's a movie about pooping or not or it yeah yeah interesting pooping and killing i love this uh yeah it was a huge about pooping or not? Yeah. Pooping and killing. I love this. Yeah, it was a huge bomb when it came out.

People hated it. It barely came out. Then in 2002, it barely came out. It popped its head out. K-19 and Gangs of New York. Sure. Which he's so, I think he's so good in Gangs of New York. I agree with that.

Small part though. Small part, but that's why I feel like Scorsese's like, and obviously that was supposed to come out a year earlier but like people have always wanted to work with him right

yeah I think he's a good guy he doesn't seem to suffer from that no and then you know only a few years later you got Batman Begins

Chronicles of Narnia he becomes like a sort of steady hand at the side of a big blockbuster and then we get like the Neeson we know now which is basically like the workaholic who know now which is basically like

the workaholic who's in a zillion action movies and does some middling dramas off to the side of the Indies every couple of years. He's pretty reliable. Seems to have a sense

of humor about himself. He did just say recently that he's like I'm 65 fucking years old. I mean he's old. How much more of this can you do? I think I've said this

before in the podcast but Liam Neeson's like the same age as my father I believe and anytime I see a Liam Neeson action movie I imagine my dad going through the same action. And like my dad like barely like walks more than two blocks to get lunch, you know? Right.

Yeah. Yeah. He's also not built like an action star. He's so fucking big. He's very big. He's Frankenstein's monster. I just saw him. Richard, did you see him at the dinner?

Mm-hmm. And he's so tall. Yeah. But very skinny. Yeah. Right. I saw it because he was in Mark the dinner? And he's so tall, but very skinny. I saw it because he was in Mark Felt, which he's okay. He's just got huge hands and a big head. He's not graceful in a sort of fighting way. He's sort of a Frankenstein-y kind of guy.

Apparently he's got a Mondo dong. So they all say. Have you guys ever seen Third Person? No, that's the Paul Haggis movie right yeah that's that's a vanity project if ever there was one

you know I really think Paul Haggis he's gonna bring it back well Show Me Heroes really fucking good it is but I mean he didn't write that but that's why

it's probably pretty good he's a decent director it's also it's the best directing I think he's ever done Show Me Heroes I was a big fan of yeah

but what I was gonna say is the key to I think he's ever done. Show Me Heroes, I was a big fan of. But what I was going to say is the key to, I think, both his work in the bigger blockbusters, right, like in Narnia, The Phantom Menace, and Batman Begins, and then also in his later, like, Charles Bronson action hero phase, is that

there's this weird, like, wounded sadness to him when he's doing this exposition. But in this, he's doing this exposition but in this he's so bland like yeah he is he's really lost I find those actors

who I almost always find compelling even if the movie's bad because there's so much humanity to him yeah see for me I until his kind of more recent iterations

I had always thought like oh Liam Neeson like boring like you know like that 90s list I read with like Michael Collins that got really boring isn't he in that movie Summersby no that's Richard Gere yeah there like Michael Collins that got really boring isn't that movie

Summersby no that's Richard Gere there's some movies my mom really liked that Liam Neeson was in and I was like he was like a mom crush guy who was kind of like

whatever so him in this when I was a teenager and seeing the trailers for K-19 and Harrison Ford hadn't done anything you know like

egregious yeah you know but Neeson I was just like ugh I didn't care so it's weird casting because it's big name casting,

but both actors were at weird spots. You know, it just didn't. They both get above, you know, above the title casting, but then the poster

makes it clear like who this movie is. It's a big red Ford head. Yeah, it's just Ford and then a submarine. Neeson is nowhere to be seen. And then in the movie with Ford's character, I was really

I mean, I was paying as close attention as I could, being that I was also bored. Yeah. And also just like bummed out. Yeah. This weird turn where it's setting him up to be this oppositional villain, sort of like this megalomaniacal captain and then, no, then they

sort of agree and then everyone's on... Right, he gets. Then they sort of agree. And then everyone's on... And then everyone's on his team again. I don't know. There's no arc. There isn't much of an arc. The relationship that's at work here really is Ford's character and the Soviet Union. The motherland.

And he finally breaks with... But there's no... Ford does nothing to show you any progression. At all. He just goes from being gruff about does nothing to show you any progression. No. At all. But that's why I kind of like the end of the movie. He just goes from being gruff about one thing to being gruff about another thing. The last, the sort of CODA stuff after the fall of the Berlin Wall, I think

the two of them are pretty dialed in and watching them sort of try to sort through these emotions that they've repressed for like decades. They've got some old age makeup. Which I think is well done. Which is funny because they're almost the age. Yes. They're the actual real age. Which is Which I think is well done, actually. Which is funny because they're almost the age, the actual real age. Right, right.

Which is why I think it's so well done is they just took some of the young age makeup off of that. You're right. Because Ford is about 60 when he makes this movie. He's playing a man in his 30s, as you say. And Neeson was probably 50? Sure. How old is Neeson?

Yeah, yes. Neeson's about 50. Right. And both of them are supposed to be playing like 35? Sure. But they give them the Joe Paterno classes like I just thought the tufts of hair

it's good but I felt like watching these two men like struggle to emote and figure out how to like acknowledge what they went through and all that sort of stuff

I was like man the movie could almost work if it was going back and forth between the two timelines you know if it was more about them processing what happened than it was about the actual thing.

Because to watch two hours and 15 minutes of the thing just gets really repetitive. I mean, if I just laid out the plot of the movie, he gets put on the sub, he does a bunch of drills. That takes a long time. A lot of drills, right? A lot of drills. Drill, drill, drill.

Drill, baby drill. Drill, baby drill. Sarah Palin's there. Who are these guys? She can see them. From her house. She's waving. Yeah, right. Drill, baby drill. Drill, baby drill. Sarah Palin's there. Who are these guys? She can see them. From her house. She's waving. Yeah, right.

Hey, who are they? Daniel Plainview? Because they won't stop drilling. Great. And they never hit oil. Nor milkshake. They drill a lot. Every drill, somebody dies.

Harrison Ford's like, do this drill now. Yeah, there's one scene where some guy gets his hand caught in a chain and then they're trying to fix him and then another guy gets knocked over and hits his head and it's just like what

that's enough of that only three more drills and Donald Sumter keeps like putting like cotton balls on a plate and he's like ah finally

all my cotton balls and then someone will like knock him over it's like a Marx Brothers routine there's a lot of weird slapstick with like food in the galleys

flying around and then Ford has a little bit where his coffee or tea or whatever it is is sliding off and he just catches it seamlessly. Sure. To show that he's a salty pro or whatever. So I don't know. It's weird. And then finally after all the drills they submerge all the

way down to crush depth. And Liam Neeson's like this is a bad idea too and he's like no crush depth. So Liam Neeson's like, this is a bad idea too. And he's like, no, crush depth. So they do that. And that's boring. Because it's just watching a meter tick along. And then there's some CGI denting. But they survive the crush depth, but Liam Neeson throws a hissy

fit about it. They go back up, they shoot the missile, like a test. And that works. And they all pat themselves on the back and they're like, we did this unnecessary thing. All that, like an hour and 15 minutes, if not longer, to build up to a successful test launch of a missile. That's it.

That's it. And then immediately later, they do the one thing that always happens in movies about foreign cultures is to prove the character's humanity. They have them play soccer. I just feel like that's such a true. Oh, God, it's true. foreign cultures is it to prove the character's humanity they have them play soccer yes I just feel like that's such a true oh god it's true you know

like in some improbable place in this case on top of an iceberg right but yeah and then they take a photo that comes back later in the movie

but you know that's the weirdest thing about Bigelow doing that and like once again I totally get why she did because it's like okay

you know I've had some setbacks I want to get back into the studio fold even if this is independently produced. It's like a big summer blockbuster with a huge movie star and a massive budget

and all of that. But the thing she built such a reputation for being good at is like clean economic action. Like she's an amazing action filmmaker. And this is not an action movie at all. It's a crisis management movie in which they're fucked from the setup and then they just debate how to deal with it

and every decision gets worse. So like she's also good at tension but this isn't really a tension that you can engage with. I mean it's good you know there are wonderful shots of them walking down these narrow you know hallways or whatever. What is the term for is it insert where you're

filming something that's just practical it's not like an actor. Yeah. You know like you're filming a dial or something. Right yeah insert shots. Like there's so much of that in this movie, it's not like an actor. You're filming a dial or something dinting. There's so much of that in this movie and it's like, why get this really kinetic director to do that? It doesn't make any sense. It's a really poor fit.

I mean, I hate to say it, but Peter Berg did that with Deepwater Horizon. That's fucking exhilarating. That's the thing. Like, you need someone who can make it overly kinetic. You need someone

with too much style. I think Catherine Bigelow is a better director than Peter Berg. I do too, but Peter Berg would have been a better fit for something like this.

Probably, but also, Deepwater Horizon has a bunch of actors who have very different, very big characters they're playing, like Kurt Russell,

John Malkovich, like, who are like, each doing their own thing. And it has a massive explosion, has a big explosion. Wahlberg's in the middle of it. And he's the one who like,

you know, he's the guy we're supposed to identify with him. He doesn't, you know, he thinks this is going to, it's a problem. Right. And it's very like muscular,

flashy in your face, which works for that story. Whereas this is, we're supposed to identify with Harrison Ford, I guess. And he's just like a big jerk who gets on a boat and is a big meanie. He's mean, mean, mean. And then the reactor breaks,

he remains mean, although less mean. But the reactor breaking also has nothing to do with him. No, it's just, right, the Soviets fucked him. It's not because they dived to that depth. It's not because they launched the missile. It's just completely arbitrary. Whereas, like, Deepwater Horizon has, like, a moral dilemma at the center of it which is like

dramatized through the characters who you care about. She's weirdly like too what's the word I'm looking for? She's like too kind of austere to make this movie

interesting. Like she has too much legitimacy as a filmmaker and a storyteller to make this movie engaging because the way you would make it engaging is by getting a bunch of character actors to ham it up. Right. Yes. Exactly. That's what I want.

Her approach is too like literal. Right. There's too much integrity. That's what I'm saying. And I think that commitment to realism fucks her over in Detroit in a totally different way where that movie is highly suspenseful obviously because it's about an absolutely great being. And I think that Commitment to Realism fucks her over in Detroit in a totally different way. I agree. Where that movie's highly suspenseful, obviously, because it's about an absolutely... It's a horror movie.

It totally works on that level. But, well, we'll get into it. We'll save it for the Detroit episode. But, yeah, this, you know, she's got the score by Klaus Bedelt that's, like, going wild with all kinds of organs and nonsense. And you're like, yeah, sure. But then, like, yeah, none of the actors are rising to this. Like, I want big push broom mustaches. You know?

I just want to, and, like, I want Sarsgaard to be going for something. I want an old guy to do one last mission, you know? Yeah, right. I want the tropes. I want the stock characters. And this is a movie where you want the actors to have blenders. Do you know what I'm saying? Sure.

Like, you want all the characters to have, like, here's my weird little thing. And they give Sarsgaard, like, Sarsga they give Skarsgård a picture of a girl. We see her in one scene. But that's not enough. Also, is he the only one on the boat? Yes, he's the only one who has a woman. Otherwise, it's a movie full of virgins. So what's the tragedy?

It's a bunch of incels. No, but the word I was scrambling to look for is integrity. She treats this material with too much integrity, which strangles the baby in the crib. Right, she does the job. Yes. I understood the mechanics of what was happening for the most part, and I'm like, that seems bad,

but that was it. But then, the beauty of this movie is, this Rob served the ability to do something like this again, on this level, and she has to go down to basics, and like, figure out the bare essentials of what she wants to do as a filmmaker. The problem is they also use this

as a red herring to be like well, you can't give women blockbusters. And it doesn't happen again until Wonder Woman. Why did that happen to Mimi Leder? Pay it forward. Pay it forward was a disaster. Peacemaker does okay, then Deep Impact is huge. Yeah, it does well although it does get beaten by Armageddonemaker does okay, then Deep Impact is huge.

Yeah, it does well, although it does get beaten by Armageddon. But everyone kind of went... Wasn't Deep Impact first? I don't remember. That was second. It's Peacemaker, then Deep Impact, and then Pay it Forward,

which is not enough of a calamity to kill someone's career. Like, it shouldn't have... No, it's not. It's a bad fucking movie. It's one for her. You know, she'd done the two for you.

Right. So who cares if the little art project doesn't do well? They should have let her do the sum of all fears or whatever after that. She should have been able to do some stock. But Pay It Forward was the first big movie for Kevin Spacey and Tell Hunt after the Oscar. And Taylor Joel. So it cost $40 million to make. It was three people who had just been anointed. It took a real life black person and cast him as a white guy, which is

an insane thing to do. Really? Yeah. The Kevin Spacey character, like the real guy, was black. I didn't know it was based on a true story. Wait, you didn't... I can't tell if you're doing it right. No, I'm not kidding. Really? That's the whole fucking gimmick of pay it forward. It's like, this kid really wanted everyone to pay it forward.

Well, okay, so then I feel a little less bad for Mimi Leder if she let that happen. She figured it out eventually and she's doing such great work on the leftovers and shit again. But there was a moment there with her and with Bigelow, I guess, where it was like, oh, okay. Proof.

And Bigelow had always worked at a lower tier than even Leder got to go up to. She was always doing like 40, 50 million dollar movie tops. And she came rocketing out of television. Right. She was from ER. Right.

She made a splash. But it was, like, there was this zone where it was, like, before this and after this, no woman was getting above $60 million as a budget. And you get a couple people who, like, in the years after K-9 Team, where it's like,

oh, they give Karen Kusama, like, 60 to do Eon Flux. Right Monster and then that like crashes, you know? You get those attempts and then now, you know, it took like Warner Brothers was backed against a wall and couldn't not hire a woman. Like they knew how much public shaming they were going to get. And I also think they gave Patty Jenkins a lot of freedom because they thought Suicide Squad was more important. You know, they thought Batman v Superman was more important. They had their eye on other balls. And they also felt like, well, you know, like we can't we can't oppress her and her creativity because then we'll look bad.

So let her fail on her own terms. So they already had the fuss with Michelle McLaren. Exactly. Yeah. Right. And Patty Jenkins had been signed on for a Thor movie, right? Yes, Thor 2. Right.

But you look at like, okay, so Thor 2 ends up hiring Alan Taylor, right? Who's like a total meme-y leader, like a guy who did a bunch of Game of Thrones, like a good TV director. Sure. And he apparently did not work well with Marvel, even after they had fired Patty Jenkins. And they mostly fired him from the movie and reshot a lot of stuff, recut a lot of stuff. And Feige really kind of like and recut a lot of stuff. And Feige really kind of directed that film, right? And what does he get after that?

He gets to do Terminator Genisys. Yeah. He gets to do another huge movie. He wins the Oscar. Right, and then he wins Best Director. Yeah, that won the big five, right? Yeah, they had it. Jai Courtney. Jai Courtney.

Oscar winner. Emilia Clarke. Is it Jai Courtney? I don't know. Hey, Courtney. Oscar winner. Emilia Clarke. Is it Jay Courtney? I think it's Jay. I should make fun of him because I did see the exception, that little Nazi thriller that he was in last year that's really good, and he's good in it. I like him in Jack Reacher. He's a big sack of potatoes.

Oh, sure, yeah. He's got a big potato head. Yeah, I mean, it's a great example of like— Do you think that Wonder Woman changes anything now? I think it will. I mean, this is what I think is frustrating. Not just Wonder Woman, but also her getting the big paycheck for Wonder Woman 2. You know, her like negotiating like that awesome deal and all that stuff.

The thing that helps her so much is that the other DC movies have been so bad that it's so cut and dry that the only reason that movie works is because of Patty Jenkins. Like it's so clear. Like everything that's good about this movie is the opposite of all the movies they were micromanaging. So you have to give her full credit. You can't spread it around anywhere else. I think now it becomes a trend. And the shitty thing in Hollywood is progress only happens

if it feels like a fad. If they think they can make money a quick buck off of it. So I think there are going to be a lot more blockbusters directed by women. The annoying thing is, if a couple of those don't work, then they'll go back to blaming them again. So you hope that these next batch work pretty well. You want to get to a point where it's like Alan Taylor and it doesn't matter and they don't go like, well, white guys can't direct blockbusters. It doesn't represent anything greater.

it doesn't represent anything greater. But I think Bigelow, you know, got into this territory where like, our friend, past guest, Mike Ryan,

I was having a conversation with him where he was saying like, the thing that's going to happen with Patty Jenkins now is what happened after Bigelow won the Oscar where anytime there's

a big blockbuster, they say like, we went out to Catherine Bigelow and offered her the job and she said no, so you can't blame us. We tried to hire a woman. Like, that's the one woman we'll hire

you know we'll offer these movies to maybe maybe I don't know I don't know I don't know and in retrospect

I mean K-19 I don't think it's failures are really her fault at all I think it just shouldn't have been made it's a bad project yeah it's a bad project

from start to finish and that's not to disrespect the story you know whatever but like it's just like it's not it should have been a National Geographic special it would have been engaging fiction narrative film no mean, and that's not to disrespect the story, you know, whatever, but like, it's just like, it's not. It should have been a National Geographic special.

It would have been engaging. Right. Fiction, narrative film. it's not. Yeah. It's not.

No. And she tries, you know, she tries to kind of amp it up. There's some power to the ending and,

you know, just to how screwed over they get. Yeah. But I feel like she should have either hit it harder or just not made the movie.

I don't know. I don't really have a fix for this movie. But if you're in her shoes also and someone offers you that amount of money post, you know. No, I mean, sure.

Okay, sure. I'll make the best of it. I would have made it a sub-two hour movie. Yeah. Sub-two hour, wow. No pun intended. I would have made it

a sub-two hour movie in which the first half is the disaster and the second half is all Dakota stuff. Right. With them trying to emotionally process it. Dakota Fanning? Dakota Fanning.

Oh, she's in this one now? Dakota. She played the torpedo. This is I Am Safe. Yeah. Ben, did you even watch this movie? I did. Wow.

I'm really sorry. I ran into Ben on the street yesterday afternoon and he was like, have you watched it yet? And I was like, no. And he was like, you're going to hate it. It was awful. It felt like torture. Earlier on the podcast, Bill called it a masterpiece. Was he being facetious?

No, he likes it. And I hadn't seen it when he said that. And when he said it, I was like, oh, maybe there's like a bit of a gem here. I was kind of excited. And then now I want to say like, what is it that you like about this movie? Because I don't really get it.

Maybe he likes Tess Drills. Hey man, Tess Drills. Drills, Drills, Drills. Unboxed on this mojo. Drill movies. Yeah, let's see what other categories. Deepwater Horizons probably. Armageddon is technically a drill movie. Submarine.

Submarine is the only category it gets apart from the regular ones let's do the box office game because this is a huge belly flop I don't even know what time of year this came out middle of summer this was like July this is a summer picture that's very strange so wait a second let me find the

02 which was a big summer it came out July 19th 2002 Um, so, wait a second, let me find the... 02, which was a big summer. It came out July 19th, 2002. Nice that it was July 19th. Uh, what? Go ahead. J-19. Oh.

You know the two guys that Neeson and Harrison Ford play died within nine days of each other? Aw. In 1998. Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. A lot of nines. And I think that's going to happen with Harrison and Liam. That's true. They're holding

on like this. It debuted number four at the box office with $12.7 million. That is catastrophic. On a reported $100 million budget. It grosses $35 million domestic. Nightmare. $30 million foreign

for a $65 65 worldwide total yeah i mean 35 would have been the lowest opening weekend they were comfortable with sure and that was the final total adjusted it made 53 million dollars not good but adjusted it would have cost no i know i know i know i know right so it's it's sort of, it's sort of a weird weekend. 2002. This is a wild weekend. 2002. 2002. Spider-Man opens like two months earlier.

The blockbuster game changes. We have $100 million openers now. Yeah, Spider-Man has made $402 million in 12 weeks. He's sitting at number 22. So, number one at this box office. I have a guess okay but I want to hear

how you set it up it came out the week before debuting at number two on less screens and they upped the screen count week two

no yes yes they upped the screen count a little bit although not much yes Road to Perdition it rose to number one I remember

Road to Perdition a summer movie yeah like for like a movie where it rains all the time. Tom Hanks murders a bunch of people. A summer blockbuster.

He comes with a Tommy gun that he named after himself. A Hanks-y gun. Yeah. I made my grandparents come and pick me up at summer camp. Sleepaway camp

so they could take me into town and go see Road to Perdition. Oh yeah. I love that movie. I saw that with my dad. I feel like that's a good generational movie. I think it's a terrific

movie. I do too. It's my favorite Sam Mendes movie. Jude Law's really good in that. Jude Law's so phenomenal in it. Daniel Craig is phenomenal in it. The kid from Teen Wolf. Tyler Hodge. I watched Everybody Wants Him on a plane when I was flying to Telluride. I went to Telluride. Oh my gosh, wow.

Up in Yon Mountains? I'd seen it already, but I kept covering the screen. You were getting riled. No, I was just embarrassed. It was a little too raunchy for a plane ride. It's a raunchy movie, considering there's not a lot of sex.

I love that movie. I think it's a great movie. I think it's good, too. Do you remember there was a big thing? I think someone like Variety or the New York Times wrote a big trend piece on how, because Roger Perdition really legged it out and crossed $100 million and kept on playing well

weeks into its release, and it was because older women were really attracted to Tyler Hoechlin or whatever his name is. Wait, Hoechlin? But he was very young. But he's got this weird man face in it. And there was this whole big thing. Someone wrote a piece, I will try to find it

and post it to our reddit about how like 50 plus year old women were like that boy is so handsome and we're going to see it like he was

their little Leo that they had to keep on seeing I get that I guess so a good movie a weird summer blockbuster I felt the same

about Paul Newman so I was he's great in that movie Craig is also so good in that movie that was the first time I took note of Craig for sure

and that was Mendes drawing from the British theater who the fuck is this guy Jennifer Jason Leigh is good Joe G is good and then you get a touch

of the tooch and there's that little boy the other brother Liam Aiken thank you series of unfortunate events that one that one's got killer

Brad Silberling movie killer cast I mean Jesus they were murderers. I don't know. All right. I have no idea. Hanks It Goes Dark.

I really do think that movie's good. I just think it's crazy that it opened in the summer. Insane. Because it's such a fall or winter movie. It's an autumnal movie. It really is. Yeah. Number two.

So Road to Perdition, its second weekend, made $15.4 million. Just FYI which is more no less than it made the weekend before but that's that thing they used to do

they boosted its theaters they used to do that and they don't do it much anymore I remember them doing the exact same thing with Bridget Jones's Diary where you like open it the first weekend

like fairly wide like 1500 screens right and you open it like two or three and then you get some good word of mouth and then the second weekend you push it over, and then you get some good word of mouth, and then the second weekend

you push it over 2,000, and then you hit number one. And people, ain't nobody got time for that anymore. They do platform releases, though. But usually you start real small, right? It's rare that you would start basically wide and then go wide. Not that kind of studio platform.

It's weird. It is a weird approach. But it worked. Was this his first movie after It is a weird approach, but it worked. Was this his first movie after American Beauty? Yeah. And then Jarhead was after. Yes. And Road to Redemption was so hyped

as an Oscar movie, obviously. Yeah. It's like, you know. Is he a blank check guy? Yeah. Yeah. Right?

I just hate two of his movies so much. Which one? I probably hate the same two. Revolutionary Road and Away From Her. Away We Go. Away We Go.

Away From Her is a good movie. Away We Go is terrible. Yeah. Away We Go Away We Go Away From Her is a good movie Away We Go is terrible Away We Go makes me want to throw myself into the Hudson River it is a relic of it's time

in the way that Singles is or Empire Records it's just like that movie would never be made a month earlier or a month later

it's so true Revolutionary Road is just a movie I think that is just a total misfire I like the book it's based on

it's completely dead on Unarrival I like the book it's based on. It's completely dead on the right level. I agree. And Spectre is like one of the most expensive shrugs in history. Yeah well Spectre's bad. Yeah Spectre is more

just bad though. I mean there's even some good set pieces in it or whatever. It's just like that's obviously a movie the studio fucked with a lot and like you know whatever.

This is a podway from cast or miniseries on the films from Paul Sam Mendes. I would do it. i mean he's a funny guy because i never have been able to figure out if he has a real point of view or if he's just like a good actress director who like hires great dps that's the big thing with him is everyone was like he works with such great dps like conrad hall and then uh deacons and like you know like you know he likes like setting these things up. Romley Newman past and future guest long time sister of mine

she first time long time she just watched American Beauty for the first time and was like what the fuck was that? I mean that's a movie I was like I can't even imagine what it would be like for you to watch that movie now without any context of how it was received at the time.

That was a TIFF, considering we were just there. It blew up. That was like the first big TIFF Best Picture. That's where it happened. I was like evangelical about that movie after I saw it. I was like telling everyone, I took a group of friends to see it. And I was just like, I watched it recently. I'm like, this is a bad movie.

Right. It's quite bad. So tone deaf. everyone to go I took a group of friends to see it and I was just like I rewatched it recently I'm like this is a bad movie right it's quite bad so tone deaf it's way but it is kind of fascinating to watch it like it's not like a bad movie

where you're just like oh what were you thinking this is shitty you're like what is this but Romilly was like one when that movie came out so she doesn't even like

understand what it's commenting on it just feels like why the fuck would you make this it's also it is to me like such

like monument to like Gen X thinking in general but like pre 9 America pre 9-11 it's the ultimate pre 9-11 movie

imagine making a movie about that after 9-11 where it's like oh god I have this house and I jerk off in the shower like whoa it's me right

and it felt profound it did it felt profound it's that like fucking bag Romley like literally grew up in the shadow of 9-11,

so it's just like, why would any human being make this? And I was like, it won Best Picture and Director. I remember my friend showed me the movie, and I was very blown away by it. Of course. I thought it was so smart. Yeah, I did too. It had footage at the end of old ladies' hands

and Annette bending on a fucking amusement park ride. I was like, that's not what the rest of the movie looked like. Everything about it, I was just stunned by. Another movie from that time, I remember being like, wow, this was so profound. And then I re-watched Donnie Darko recently. Yeah, that's a tougher one to come back to. That's not good.

In college, I was like, I thought that was the most brilliant thing I'd ever seen. I also thought that movie was good. I had that problem also as well recently on Netflix with Regrets in Paris, the movie. Because that was a big one

for me when it came out. And now I just felt like the metaphors are sloppy. Well, you know what? I mean, that's not number two at the box office. You know what does hold up

as canine though? Yeah, it does. They really sank that stuff. Do you think that dog's dead? Yes. It's hilarious. Certainly. I don't mean to be a jerk, but that movie is like 27 years old. If that dog isn't dead,

we got to call the Guinness Book of World Records. Begalow, I got your next picture. You think Belushi just sort of transported his consciousness into the dog or something? I think that would make sense. That's the kind of thing he usually does. Road to Perdition number one. Number two is a sequel

to a family movie. And I think the family movie had been sort of like Live action animated. Mix. And I think the Monkeybone? No.

Good sequel. I think the family movie Monkeybones? had been Monkeybones is a dog scent. James Cameron's Monkeybones. The first one had been such a hit that this to me is wild

this movie cost $120 million to make which is too much money when you hear what this movie is how limited the audience base is this movie's running time is 70 minutes long 7-0 it's just about as long as the academy considers a feature

length movie to be it's just about as long as like the academy considers a feature length movie to be yeah it's following length yeah exactly uh 120 million dollars and what did it end up at it ends up grossing 64 mil it opened number two to 15 mil yeah he found out what it is and what did the first one end up doing that's a good question let Let me find out. Is Brandon Fraser in it? No, but he could have been. Okay, so it's that kind of movie. The first one made $140 million. It was a big hit, but these are expensive movies because they're these mixes of live action and animation.

Traditional animation or modern CGI? CG animation. If you need another hint, I can give you one. Is it based off of a pre-existing property? That was my hint, yes. It's based on a book. It's based on a book.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, I know exactly what it is. It's Stuart Little 2. Stuart Little 2. $120 million they spent. That movie's 70 minutes long. A Geena Davis picture. 70.

I mean, what even happens in Stuart Little 2? Okay, he shreds. I don't know if you remember this, but the marketing campaign for Stuart Little 2 is him on a skateboard. I do remember what even happens in Stuart Little Two? He shreds. I don't know if you remember this, but the marketing campaign for Stuart Little Two is him on a skateboard.

I do remember this. The first movie's pretty austere. So they poochied him, basically. Yeah, they poochied him hard. Because the first

movie's about, what if your first day at school was really hard and also you were a mouse, right? Like that's what it's about? Right.

And M. Night Shyamalan wrote it. It's essentially Wide Awake with a Mouse. It's a mouse looking for meaning. M. Night Shyamalan did write it. The little family just got with a Mouse. It's a mouse looking for meaning. M. Night Shyamalan

did write it. The little family just got bigger. That scene where Betty Buckley kills herself in the first Stuart Little is so jarring. But also the first

Stuart Little is like I thought it was sensitively handled. The first Stuart Little is like pretty stylish like very designed but he's the main CGI element

in most of its live action. And it's a robust 84 minutes. Right. It's an epic. Stuart Little 2 is like mostly animals, which is why it was that expensive because it's like him fighting a hawk.

Yeah, right. He spends most of the movie in the woods on a skateboard. Like it's got action sequences. That is not what it was. I remember watching it on planes. It's a bad fucking movie. Lip Nicky's in it, right? He plays Stuart's brother.

And is Michael J. Fox doing the voice? Michael J. Fox is Stuart and then Melanie Griffith plays a canary. And James Woods is a hawk. Sorry, who's the hawk? James Woods? Am I right about that? Who's the hawk? Oh, no, you're right.

He's a falcon. I'm sorry. That's why I was confused. I was looking for hawk. And Steve Zahn's more surprising role. My favorite actor and political thinker, James Woods. Of course, never been wrong about anything. And then you've got Hugh Laurie and Gina Davis putting in Of course, never been wrong about anything. And then you got Hugh Laurie and Geena Davis putting in their time, getting their paychecks. Is Hugh Laurie high on house money?

He's about to get high on house money. He used Stuart Little too to pay off his house. It is number three in the mouse slash rat box office mojo category behind Ratatouille and Stuart Little. Okay.

And Mouths on 4? Mouths on 5. Flushed Away is 4, my friend. Where's Noah Taylor on that one? Noah Taylor, the hero. One step beneath Timothy's ball. Yeah. So that's number two.

Okay. Number three is a sequel to a big blockbuster that was number one the week before. Like a huge blockbuster. A huge blockbuster. It's number two in the series. It's the live action. Number two in the series. It opened the week before.

It tops out at 190, which is pretty bad. Interesting. Like kind of a disappointment. This movie is a huge disappointment. We've discussed it a lot. Men in Black 2? Correct. Yeah.

Correctamundo. Men in Black 2. Who wants to think about that one? If only they had brought us on a script. Is that the one with Lara Flynn Boyle? Yeah. Yes. And Johnny Knoxville.

Right. And I've told this story before. Barry Josephson, producer on the Men in Black movies, producer on The Tick. I told him the pitch that David and I came up with for Men in Black 2, where we fixed Men in Black 2. And he said, that's what it should have been. Wow. There you go.

We had our pitch. That was like the Rosetta Stone of our friendship. I feel like we were friends. That was early. And then when we cracked Men in Black 2, we were like, we're going to be in each other's lives for a very long time. There you go. I agree.

I'm glad to be in your life. You nailed it. K-19 is number four. Okay. Number five. And how much did K-19 make? It opened to 12. Right.

It tops out at 35. Not great. No. Number five is a movie I remember being very hyped to see. Another flop of this summer. It's like a fantasy action movie, but it's kind of set in the future it's set in london rain of fire oh rain of fire rain of fire i was very excited because um uh what's her name is from golden eyes in it isabella's yeah i was like oh good for her she's working and then who's the other woman in it?

I don't know. Let's find out. It's not like Saffron Burrows or something. She was in a lot of movies right around then. Do you know... The famous test screening story about her, is that what you were about to do? No, what's that story? About Deep Blue Sea was that they were like, we have to reshoot your... We're going to reshoot the ending of Deep Blue Sea so you die. And she was like, oh, okay.

I mean, sure. Let's do it. And then she's like, so why? And they were like, in the test screenings the audiences were literally going like, die, die, die. Like they told her that. They wanted you dead. So we're going to kill you.

I'm trying to find the other woman in this movie. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just her. I mean, Gerard Butler is the fourth lead. He plays one of the dragons? Yeah, of course. Alice Cridge is in it. but there's no other women. It's a boy movie.

I was going to say, Disney had very high hopes for that movie. It got pushed back a while, but they thought it was going to be a big blockbuster for them. Yeah, I think it got pushed back because they needed tons of visual effects. Is it the weirdest thing that Matthew McConaughey has ever done? Just in terms of who he is? Well, it's a really weird thing for him. And I'm about to tell you the weirder thing about it.

Because that's him like going as far away from McConaughey as possible and everyone thought he was cooked and then he comes back with how to lose a guy in 10 days then he's in rom-com mode

before the McConaugheys but right in that movie he's like all torso and he's like really dialed up shaved head yeah so here's the crazy

alternate history Disney was so bullish on that movie that at the time they were filming it and getting dailies back and being like, fucking McConaughey,

he's an action hero. We finally cracked McConaughey. That's what it is. They were developing Pirates of the Caribbean and he was their original choice to play Jack Sparrow. That would have been

They were conceptualizing the role for Matthew McConaughey. I mean, I'd see that movie, but I don't think America would have seen it. They were like writing it and Disney was like, can you try to make this a McConaughey part?

And then Rain of Fire bombs, and they're like, forget it. Don't worry about it. And I think they didn't think Johnny Depp would ever want to do it. Then they had him in the Keira Knightley part, and then they got rid of him. The other part of the story is that Johnny Depp went in for a general meeting at Disney because he said, I want to do a movie that my kids would want to see. What do you have in production?

And they threw everything out at him, and they were like, we're doing a movie based off the ride, but you wouldn't want to do that. And he was like, oh, no, I'd love to play a pirate. But why And they threw everything out at him and they were like, we're doing a movie based off the ride but you wouldn't want to do that. And he was like, oh no, I'd love to play a pirate. But why did they throw everything out at him? Because was he worth any money at that point? Johnny Depp?

He was still, wait, Johnny Depp? Yeah. He hadn't, I mean, Sleepy Hollow was a big hit. Sleepy Hollow was like his first hundred million dollar movie. Yeah, he was doing Tim Burton stuff.

But the other thing was he had such an air of legitimacy at that point in time. He was like such an actor's actor. That they were excited about that. That I think they liked the idea of classing up a Disney movie, especially with those theme park movies, by being like, this will make it look substantive rather than looking like the country bears. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's true.

Because like making a Pirates of the Caribbean movie on paper was an awful idea. Right. Because it's going to be super expensive because you needed all these boats, which is like so expensive. Yeah. And it's based on the lamest Disney ride that exists. Right. Because it's going to be super expensive because you needed all these boats, which is like so expensive. Yeah. And it's based on the lamest Disney ride that exists. Right. And they made three of those and the other two bombed, you know?

Pirates? Three of those ride movies. Yeah. Country Bears and what's the other one? Haunted Mansion. Oh, yeah. But McConaughey did do Country Bears. Yes. Yeah, of course he played all of them. In the suits, but didn't do the voiceover. Right. He just wanted to get physical. Yeah, he did it clump style. They filmed one suit at a time. Yeah. Otherover. Right. You're right. That was, he was, he just wanted to get physical. He did a clump style. They filmed one suit at a time.

Yeah. Other movies, Mr. Deeds, which has grossed $107 million. Mr. Deeds, which is like putting Catherine Bigelow to shame and dragons. It's just like Adam Sandler's rich. Mr. Deeds,

Mr. Deeds was for me, the canary in the Winona Ryder coal mine where I was like, Oh, this is not going well. That was also the first post shoplifting release for her so she like

went and did her press for them was trying to be like jokey and self aware right yeah Eight Legged Freaks which opened to number 7

which is a bad movie that people pretended was like a fun B movie but I don't think it actually is it's a shitty movie it's a poor man's I don't think

that David Arquette has really ever done anything that's like what you first described like a bad movie that's like yeah I mean he's in Scream which is a shitty movie. It's a poor man's March of Tats. I don't think that David Arquette has really ever done anything that's like what you first described. Like a bad movie that's actually good. Yeah, I mean, he's in Scream, which is a great movie that is sort of like that, but that's nothing to do with David Arquette. Right. Yeah, what is David Arquette?

Like, when does he get to come back? Or are we not letting him? I think we're good. Well, it's because he's good and never been kissed. Yeah, he is. He's cute in that. That's true. It's just like, you know, because like fucking Matthew Lillard got to come back. But he's a good actor. I know, he is he's cute in that that's true it's just like you know because like fucking matthew lillard got to come back but he's a good actor i know he is but i mean maybe david

rickett's a good actor i don't know even if you watch like the early lillard performances there's a weird funny energy there i forgot that he's in bone tomahawk which is uh gross yeah uh pretty racist movie uh yeah but he gets eaten well and interesting to see what that filmmaker has gone on to direct and with which people

he has chosen to continue working with I skipped it at TIFF did you see Brawl in Cellblock 99 no I don't even know anything about it it's a movie where

Vince Vaughn smashes people's heads in in a prison for two hours and he's already shot his follow up to that

which is a police brutality movie with Mel Gibson and Vince Vaughn playing the cops. Oh. So I think we know who S. Craig Saylor is now.

Yeah. No. I hear that Brawl in Cell Block 99 is violent. Yeah. That was the word out of the screenings

on that one. Halloween Resurrection is in there. That's the one where they throw Jamie Lee Curtis off a cliff. But now she's coming back.

She's back. You can't fucking kill her. Is Coolio in that movie or Busta Rhymes? It's Busta Rhymes. But Coolio is in a Halloween movie or is he in a Leprechaun movie? He's in a Leprechaun movie.

You were Coolio for Halloween once. That's true. That's what you're thinking. He's in Leprechaun Back to the Hood which is the second The second? He didn't even

make the cut for Leprechaun back to the hood, which is the second The second? He didn't even make the cut for Leprechaun in the hood? No Leprechaun is a franchise where there actually is Leprechaun 4 2. Right, I mean I've seen Leprechaun They do a sequel to a sequel I've seen Leprechaun

Leprechaun 4 is Leprechaun 4 in space 3 is in the hood No. 3 is in the hood. No, 5 is in the hood. Are you sure about that? Oh my God. I think space happens between... I've never been more sure in my life. No, no, no, no.

Are the hood movies back to back? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the hood movies, they were like, we got a hit here. Like, we're going to ring this dead. Because I thought they went to space and then they were like, sorry, sorry, back to the hood. We're going back. Which one did National Geographic produce? So Leprechaun Origins. The Widow back. Which one did National Geographic produce? L19.

So there's Leprechaun, Leprechaun 2, which is just a sequel to Leprechaun. Leprechaun 3, which seems to be set in Vegas. Is that the one with Jennifer Aniston? No, she's in one. She's in one. Yeah. And then Leprechaun 4 in space. Okay.

Which I've seen and is tremendous. And then Leprechaun in the hood. Leprechaun back to the hood. Right. And then more recently we have Leprechaun. The Hornswoggle reboot. Yes. Leprechaun Origins starring Hornswoggle.

He's not joking. WWE wrestler Hornswoggle. Yes. Plays Leprechaun, but they redesigned Leprechaun to look like a gremlin. This film was given to select theaters on August 22, 2014. I'm sure they were very select about the theaters. Please Google what the Hornswoggle Leprechaun looks like. Okay.

Because I'm sure you're imagining right now. Who played Leprechaun? Was it a? Warwick Davis. Okay, right. It's Warwick Davis, and he's just got a wrinkly face, and he wears a nice little green suit. Oh, no. Right? Oh, Davis, and he's just got a wrinkly face, and he wears a nice little green suit. Oh, no. Right?

Oh, I don't like this at all. Warwick's like a very big little person wrestler, and they hired him and made him. Oh, no. He looks like a monster. He's a monster. He's not a leprechaun. He's not wearing a nice little suit.

Whereas, like, this is the leprechaun I'm looking for. He's a nice man. Warwick Davis smoking a bong with somebody. Why does he kill? Because he's just trying to get his gold back? I guess so. But why is he in space? Did the

rainbow go to space? I don't really know what the... I don't know. I mean, I think he just has an Irish accent and he does jokes. He just tells jokes. And then kills people. In Leprechaun, Foreign Space is the one where he comes out of someone's pants.

When the guy's like, oh, let's have sex. Then he comes out of his pants somehow, like through his fly. And he goes, you're going to need a prophylactic or something like that. It's very weird. Well, I'm glad with how much we covered on this episode. I feel like we got a lot of miniseries down. We've covered the Leprechaun series. We covered K-19, The Widowmaker.

I just want to mention also, Crocodile Hunter Collision Course is number 10 at the box office that week. R.I.P. Yeah. You want to know what the tagline for that movie was? What? Crikey! Do you know the New York Times...

Big block letter. So it was. Yeah. Do you know the New York Times... Big block letters. So it was. Yeah. Do you know the New York Times gave that movie a really good review? Crocodile Hunter Collision Course? Yeah. Really? Who was it?

I think it was A.O. Scott. He loved it. Bendy Irwin before she left. Jeez. Richard. Bendy Irwin. If you ever do a miniseries about that, Bendy Irwin. What if we just made that Ben's

big alone what do we got divine secrets of the yaya sisterhood we don't need to cover all of them like my

you sick of this how long has this episode been Ben five hours now we're 40 we're doing great okay yeah

how you doing Ben I don't I just don't get how you could talk it's like boggling he's a cop and the little guy's a dog that's a dog not a person yeah but I just don't get how you could talk. It's like boggling to me. He's a cop and the little guy's a dog. That's a dog, not a person. Yeah, but I don't get it.

How do they communicate to each other? My language. Just that Belushi magic. I'm so confused. That Belushi charisma. I always called Jim Belushi the great communicator. I remember seeing Jim Belushi on Fallon, I think like a handful of years ago when he was on Broadway. And Fallon, in probably the most pointed interview question he's ever asked, the hardest piece of journalism he's ever done.

Oh, he said, so was it tough for you going on Saturday Night Live after your brother, you know, had been such a huge star in SNL. Right. And cast this big shadow and he had passed away by that point in time. And I was like, wow, that's like a hard hittingitting question it is kind of the question of jim belushi i feel like everyone's always like out of sensitivity ducked away from actually asking them him that head-on right that's what we talk about behind jim's back right and uh belushi went like no you know i felt like i got there on my own merits and you know honestly i i feel like critics have been very very kind to me my entire career and i was oh, that's the secret.

Jim Belushi has never read a review of a Jim Belushi movie. Clearly. That's where his confidence comes from. Good God. Some producer, according to Jim, just like made a fake Peabody award. I was like, here, look what we won. Boy, Jim. Jimbo.

He really, I know you guys haven't watched Twin Peaks, but he's so fucking good in it. I think he's become a really good character. He's also really good in The Ghost Rider, the Polanski movie. Yeah, he's pretty good in that. He was in that movie that I saw called The Whole Truth. Oh, yeah. That is a disaster.

He's fine. He's not the problem with that movie. He's become a good kind of bureaucratic heavy. There's going to be some director, I guess maybe it's Lynch, who is like, okay, I know what the problem with that movie. He's become a good kind of bureaucratic heavy. There's going to be some director. I mean, I guess maybe it's Lynch, who is like, okay, I know what to do with you now. I mean, it might be Lynch. I mean, Lynch is a... I mean, Sizemore gave this interview

where he talked about ad-libbing on the set, and David Lynch immediately just came over the PA, and he was like, Tom, do I have to send you to the back of the class, or whatever, and Tom's just like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. So clearly, like,

David Lynch wants you to say his weird shit in his weird order, and that is that. Yeah. No ad-libbing on Twin Peaks. That was a pretty good David Lynch. God, he, I wish I could do him, yeah.

The whole truth, though, that was, you never saw that, but it was from the director of Frozen River Courtney Hunt I think that's who it was I'm confusing it with the Kate Beckinsale

right the Valerie Plain movie what's that one called that's nothing but the truth nothing but the truth it's this movie with Keanu oh sure and they're like RSVP'd

to the screening and I'm like I don't know like Keanu like I love like Frozen River steady hand and it's just you get to Magno you sit down and you're like

uh oh like I just know this is this movie will never see the light of day yeah I have to go see I love Frozen. Steady hand. And it's just, you get to Magnum, you sit down, and you're like, uh-oh. I just know this movie will never see the light of day. Yeah. I have to go see Kingsman 2 after this. I don't think that movie is going to get released, right?

They're going to bury that. They're like, ah, fuck it. That movie sounds aggro. Oh, The Embargo just went up today. It did. And the reviews aren't bad.

They're just kind of like, it's a Kingsman movie. I'm sort of dreading it. I find his aggro more interesting than other people's aggro. I agree. I just don't think, when I see Kingsman,

I don't think, I'd like to see this guy with less studio restraint, you know, making this movie. Like, I'm fine with the restraint on display in Kingsman.

You know what I mean? I like Kingsman. I do think it benefits from being a little reined in. Although, I'd rather see, like, whether or not it turns out well,

I'd rather see Matthew Vaughn be given that much freedom because at least he's going to do something weird. I guess so. I'm worried this isn't weird though. This is just like big set pieces. I don't know. The villain is like Julianne Moore playing Rachel Ray. Like they're just strange.

I know. Yeah. Could be good. It could be. I don't know. Kingsman's weird. I did enjoy it a lot but I had such low expectations for it

I remember just coming out being like I had a good time weird ending like that was sort of like see I hot take I like the ending

because I think that's the point I like the ending because of how tasteless it is I can see that I can definitely see that I think it's kind of calling out

the like casual misogyny of other movies by making it explicit and underlining how gross it is. I think that's cool. Yeah. I can see that. I think Matthew Vaughn is super cool and the ending is super cool. That's what I'm trying to say. He's an aggro dude.

He's an aggro dude. It's an aggro movie. I don't know. Anyway. I like movies that hate themselves. I like the ending of Kingsman. Yeah. And why I defended Todd Phillips in a previous episode because I like movies that are like. I like the ending of Kingsman. And why I defended Todd Phillips

in the previous episode. Because I like movies that are like, this is despicable what I am now doing. That didn't come off great. I know, I re-listened and I was like, no, I think you should get a blank check. And I'm like, what? I think he's interesting, but it's the same thing.

Even when the movies are bad, there's a level of self-hatred and self-analysis there that I think is compelling to watch whether or not it's for the intended reasons. Right. Like when you order like a really gross meal and you're sitting on the couch

and as you're eating it, you start to just feel really sad. Yeah, or when you go to dinos and cry. Right, you RSVP'd the whole truth and really started crying

while eating a sandwich. Yeah, no, I didn't start crying, but. Well, like almost. No,

but like the seamless guy arrives, you pull the lid off and you're like, why did I do this? I did that in a hotel room in Colorado. Well, I forgot how big the portions were. I was coming back from Telluride on my way to Toronto. And I just was like feeling lonely and self-pitying. And I ordered like $40 worth of Mexican food and like opened it on my hotel in Hampton in bed.

And like two bites in, I was like, it's just like so pathetic. I've literally had the thing where I order Domino's and the second the order finishes, I start spontaneously crying like Holly Hunter in broadcast news. And then when the pizza shows up, I'm so happy. And I think Todd Phillips and Matthew Vaughn have that similar thing where there's a level of technical craft

there used for bad means, but in the same way that Domino's is designed to make you happy while you're chewing on it, it's like they chemically found the right balance of salt. Right, but then the minute it's over, you're like, oh, God. But you think the minute they lock a picture, Todd Phillips just goes in the parking lot and just

sobs his eyes out. I think so, but that's why if I ever get a Griff's Choice, I think I would spend it on Due Date because I think Due Date is the one movie where he lays his soul bare and is like I hate myself like this is the hangover for people

who like the hangover to tell them why they're bad for liking the hangover alright well please come back again soon Richard my Russian friends oh god what did I just see that had good Russian shit I love Russians oh death of Stalin actually but see that had good Russian shit I love Russians oh Death of Stalin

actually that's yeah but you know I love Russian shit when you lean into the sort of the pomp and circumstance sure

this doesn't do that it does not no no no no nochka this movie no could have done with

a little levity little comedy manners there would have been nice Richard thank you so much for being on the show. It's always such a pleasure. I always have fun. Thanks for having me in this lovely new studio. It's bigger.

Yeah. It feels like legit. It doesn't feel like the walls are closing in. Right. And I'm not dying of heat. Ben can afford shoes now. I don't feel like I'm in the reactor room. That is what our old studio was like.

It used to feel like K-19, The Widowmaker. And similarly... And Sarsgaard was always in there. Yeah, yeah. Just kind of in the corner crying, which I always thought was strange. I never commented on it. I can't see.

But still like weirdly made like one or two million dollars for just being there on the corner. Yeah, yeah. That's where all of our budget had to go. Yeah. Also, much like K-19, The Widowmaker, many people died just constructing that studio. Like it never should have been recorded.

Someone got run over by a car just as we were walking into it. Do you guys remember the last couple times I recorded with you, I threw a champagne bottle at you and it didn't break? And then we would just look at the ground and go, oh, it's cursed. Also, Ben was always falling asleep at the ones and zeros, but we kept it on because we told him he was a good guy. Yeah. We didn't fucking forward him we neesoned him we neesoned him

thanks guys yeah alright that's been our episode in K19 the Widowmaker Richard People should follow you on Twitter

check out Little Gold Men yep all that book coming out in February oh yeah yeah read that book I feel like your listeners

are really into like we be gay adjacent YA fiction sure I mean I fucking am well there you go

have you guys seen Beat Rats I'll take 10 yeah seen what into that from the opening shots of Beat Rats

I was like yep I really liked Beat Rats that was a divisive movie people were kind of all over it well people thought that I guess it like

various Q&A's and stuff like that what was she no people were like, why do you as a woman feel like you could tell the story or whatever? It's like, I don't know.

She told it well. Yeah, I agree. I agree. She's from Flatbush, you know? Yeah. It's also very of a piece with her first movie, which is clearly very

literally autobiographical. Yeah. But this is a very adjacent story. It's the emotional world she understands. Right, exactly. Yeah, and she's interested in sexual exploration and awakening and all of that. I think she's a very adjacent story. It's the emotional world she understands. Right, exactly. And she's interested in sexual exploration and awakening and all of that.

I think she's a very good director. I'm very excited to see the rest of her career. Please pre-order my novelization of the film B-Trance now available on Amazon. B-Trance, the junior novelization. Yeah, it's a picture book. Right, and it has... The joke I was going to make is it has

12 pages of color stills in the middle. I lovingly drew all the abs. Do you remember when that was a thing? You'd buy the novelization of Space Jam, as we all did, and the selling point was in the middle there were 12 pages of color pictures. I remember when they made a Black Beauty movie in the 80s. I had one for Black Beauty where I would skip the text and just go to the book. It was just production stills.

I wanted to see the pretty pictures of the horses in the desert. It was like a collage of production stills with little captions. I had one of those for Star Wars. I had a few of those, yeah. Junior novelizations. They were good. I pretty pictures of the horses in the desert. It was like a collage of production stills with little captions. I had one of those for Star Wars. I had a few of those, yeah. Junior novelizations. They were good. I have one of those for Victoria and Abdul.

Oh, God. The foot kissing. So good. I tried to think of another Victoria and Abdul joke. That's it. Do you know what my favorite book is? Like, if I'm being honest,

it's like my favorite book of all time. The book I probably read the most. Shoot. Muppet Treasure Island Choose Your Own Adventure wait so there's like are there adventures

where like Gonzo becomes the captain or whatever you are Jim Hawkins teamed up with Gonzo and Rizzo getting on that ship but you know

the power can you like die yeah definitely really I think so I think they go like you see black oh Jesus

I remember it getting grim very grim for a movie with Polly the talking parrot right who's actually a lobster were there like dutiful kids who if they picked

an adventure they're just like well and just close the book and put it back on the shelf they put it in the fireplace yeah well that's it

good book you gotta go see Kingsman Richard we should let you go yeah alright enjoy Kingsman people can go see Kingsman Richard we should let you go alright enjoy Kingsman people can

go see Kingsman out now in theaters it's probably hanging out right I don't know it's been out for two months it's probably got like

400 screens 16 at the box office by now yeah is that movie gonna hit I guess people wanna see it right and like

there's just nothing right now I think it'll make an easy 100 million I think it'll do less than hundred million I think I'll do less than the first one yeah it'll do well

worldwide yeah and I'll make a third one well you said that about random hearts too I did no my dad said that and I told him

that it wasn't gonna work I thought pay it forward was gonna work so you know okay goodbye goodbye thank you for listening

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