Blank Check with Griffin & David - Kiki's Delivery Service with Caroline Framke

Episode Date: September 8, 2019

Caroline Framke (Variety) joins #thetwofriends to discuss 1989's coming-of-age witch tale, Kiki's Delivery Service. Together they examine fish in pies, being a delivery witch, the Jumanji: The Next Level trailer (spoilers!) and that time Griffin met Lorne Michaels. 

Without even thinking about it, I used to be able to podcast. Now I'm trying to look inside myself and find out how I did it. Aw. There you go. That's how we feel. What have you seen inside? Nothing good. The morass.

Here's the thing. A howling void. So you tweeted yesterday in relation to when we're recording this, a photo of the young man from this movie. That's right. His name is Tombo. Tombo. Who you think looks like me. That's correct. The Tintin looking motherfucker. I was gonna say Tintin.

But I would say he also looks a lot like both Griffin McElroy and Chris Gethard. Who looks like you? Three people. With glasses. Right. And similar hairstyles. And a propensity for wearing striped shirts. Boyish bodies. So then people on Twitter were like,

Yes! Inevitable cast live-action remake! Yes! Which I know is a joke, right? Is it? But when I just went to IMDb to look for the Kiki's Delivery Service... There is a live-action version. There's a 2014 Japanese live action remake? That's obviously because he didn't own

the underlying rights to the book. It's a book. Anyone can take a swing, I guess. Do we know anything about the quality of this live action remake? My guess is it's low. Low? I don't know. Maybe it's amazing. Maybe it's fine. Wait a second.

It won Best Picture? The Academy Awards? I mean, it just kind of looks like... A retitled green book in the United States? Look at it. That looks like a video game. It doesn't look great. We're watching the trailer. It's got a lot of...

Yeah, this looks bad. No. We just got to the first shot of her on a... Her flying. On a broom. She's got a lot of... Yeah, this looks bad. No. We just got to the first shot of her on a... On her flying. She's flying! Six inches off the ground! So, yeah. You know.

The definitive version, I think, remains 1989's Kiki's Delivery Service. So the live-action window is wide open for you. Wide open! Wide open! I don't want to make a Kiki movie. I just want to make a Tombow spin-off. I want to acquire the rights to just Tombow.

Tombow's fucking, you know, helicopter plane, bike service. You love that, what's that movie about that weird kid who makes the flying thing?

That one movie? Bruce McCloud. Yeah. Yeah, who, that kid wears a red and white striped shirt, much like Tombow. That's true.

What I really wanted to, here's what I'd love to do. On court. I'd love to acquire the rights to Tombo. Okay? As a person. And then I'd like to try to piece together the rights to make the Umbo cinematic universe. Trumbo versus Dumbo versus Tombo. Oh, I'm seeing here. I am trying to write in my bathtub!

Yep, that was the clip. I am trying to write in my bathtub. And this elephant won't stop flying around me. You getting those levels down there? To say nothing of this boy and his bicycle. His propeller bicycle. I'm in the bath. This performance was nominated for an Academy Award. Ben just slowly turning down the volume. An Oscar!

In the bath! An Oscar in the bath. I was nominated for a bathy! Best bathtub-based performance! My cigarette is in a holder! Yeah. So you know I'm a man! So you know it's from a while ago.

I'm a man! you know it's from a while ago yeah the bathies remember when what lies beneath swept that one year what else have we got the favorite oh the favorite good bathtubs handmaiden great bathtub sexy bathtub

the bathies got kind of sexy shake my noon their joint bath scene do you remember that pretty woman bathtub. Sexy bathtub. The bathies got kind of sexy. Shanghai Noon? Sure. Their joint bath scene? Do you remember that? Absolutely. Pretty Woman? Pretty Woman. Pivotal Bath. Is it Batman vs. Superman where like Superman gets in the tub fully clothed and you're

like, behave! What is this behavior? When Superman and Lois Lane fuck in a bathtub. Yeah, but he's got his clothes on and she's fully naked? Yeah. Awful. Does it need to be a bathtub or can it be like a cave pool like in Wonder Woman? Does that count as a bath scene? No, I think that would

fall into the cave-ies. I mean, I think in terms of qualification. I forgot about that. But what about in Wanted when there's those sort of like old-timey bathtubs that they take like healing baths in and you see Angelina Jolie's buttocks? Well, if that counts then Jupiter Ascending counts. Oh, right.

So sort of a healing, de-aging bath. Mm-hmm. I think, hmm. I'm stretching the definition here. Yeah, it's a good question. The genre is dead, you know? That is true. I mean, Wanted is elevated,

a bullet-bending assassin action. They are. That's a bathtub. Yeah. I know. You know what? That's like a clawfoot bath. In my memory, I thought he was

wearing the Superman suit. I thought he got in. Ben's showing David a picture. What is it? The Road to Wellville. Oh, that's a really bathy movie. Man, is that ever a Comedy Central 1pm movie?

In the summer. What was I going to say about the bathies? Lock, Shack, and Barrel obviously split the supporting categories for Nightmare Before Christmas. Gummo got a lifetime achievement. Now, Totoro has some bathing because the family bathes. I don't think there's any bathing in Kiki. No.

I don't think anyone takes a bath. She gets bathed in money from this killer business. Bathed in self-doubt. Uh-huh. Yep. Bathed in, you know, sort of adolescent growing pains and moving to the big city anxieties. I want to say this right off the bat. Good kid.

Kiki? Yeah. Best. Real good kid. Kiki? She's solid. All right. So let me set the scene, actually.

Yeah, let's get this out. Right off the bat, I walk into the Audioboom Studios. There's no one else here. Summer Friday. And I walk in, and who's on the couch outside the studio but... Producer Ben. Benjamin Hosley. Ben Dusser.

Producer Ben. Poet Laureate, The Haas. Peeper. Tiebreaker. Birthday Benny. Smoking... Smoking... Smoking hot. Smoking wet Benny. Smoking wet Benny. Smoking hot Benny. peeper tiebreaker birthday Benny smoking smoking smoking hot

smoking wet Benny smoking hot Benny smoking hot Benny yeah smoking wet vaping he's the fart detective he's the meat lover

he's the fuck master he's not Professor Crispy he's graduated to certain tells over the course of a different major Kylo Ben Chris Ben Kenobi

Ben Night Shyamalan Ben Sade save anything dot dot dot Illy Ben's with the dollar sign uh uh fucking

uh Ben 19 The Fennel Maker uh Warhaz uh Mr. Bencredible uh

Benglish Eat Drink Ben Hosley uh god damn it uh yeah god damn it uh

uh Beetle Vape Juice that's what my dad would call me a lot uh and and from Miami Vice God damn it. Beetle vape juice. That's what my dad would call me a lot. And from Miami Vice. What was that? From Miami Vice? From Michael Mann?

Yeah. I don't know. Someone suggested Benjamin Dollar Haas. Oh, from like Manhunter? Yeah. Well, who knows? We'll figure it out later. But we are fiends for Ben Fito. are fiends for... It's a great picture.

It's a great picture. I don't have to post it, but I walk in. It's so good, though. Who is stretched out on the couch, watching Kiki's delivery service on his laptop, and has moist tears on his cheeks, just sitting there, like little dew drops that, you know, gather in the lily pad or whatever.

How long were you here before I got here? Because that was still the case when i got here like two minutes like i you you showed up right after me um and uh just not watching like an emotionally wrenching scene just watching kiki like succeed it was the blip yeah watching her do the final rescue connected with the old lady oh i mean gave her the cake. The old lady seems to be Ben's trigger point. Oh, no, he's crying. Can't look at you guys. He's actually crying again now. And then she had to save the day, and that was nice.

She does save the day. She has to borrow another broom. She has to believe in herself. And support you fully, Ben. For the listener at home, as Ben started explaining this, he broke eye contact, so he didn't have to see us looking at him. He's staring off into the middle distance. His eyes are red, and he looking at him. He's staring off into the middle distance. His eyes are red

and he's genuinely crying. He's crying still right now. All right. She's great. It's hard living in the city on your own. And I related to that. All true.

She made it happen. She figured it out on her own. She made her own path. Okay, that's hard. She's a good kid. She is a good kid. She figured it own path. Okay, that's hard. She is a good kid. She figured it out. She's a good little witch. She's a good witch. Miss Witch.

I love witches. Look, I don't know how much of this comes from the book, but this is the masterstroke of this movie for me. That everyone who meets her is like, oh, a witch, good for you. Okay, yeah, no, we don't have one of those around here. Yeah, we've been looking for a witch. Because there's that initial when she lands, and she's like, I'm the witch for the town, and they're, okay, yeah, no, we don't have one of those around here. Yeah, we've been looking for a witch. Because there's that initial when she lands, and she's like,

I'm the witch for the town, and they're all like, what? And I'm like, oh, is this like anachronistic? She's come to a modern town, and they're like, what's a witch? And pretty quickly, people are like, I'm a witch. Oh, right, right, right, right. I didn't put it together. Yeah, you're a witch, okay. Do you want to, like, deliver this

fucking mackerel pie? I'm sorry. I thought you said hitch. I was like, is someone going to. Kevin James around the corner? Set up relationships in this town. Someone going on a hot date to Ellis Island? Yeah, cheer for the common man.

Remember when his first date is like, let's go to Ellis Island and reckon with your immigration ancestry? That's such a big swing. That's like a fourth date. A fourth date? That's like a 10th date. That's like a we're married. Yeah, the first date should be like, let's get coffee.

Jesus Christ. Even if her relative wasn't a serial killer as he was. That's a lot. The butcher, right? Yeah. There's a really good comedic cut in that. It's funny. It's very funny. So they called him the butcher. Is that before or after he smacks her in the face with his leg on the jet ski? I think it's after. I think it's after.

Because that's on the route. The jet ski's on the way. I mean, here's... It's a good premise that he's on the route the jet ski's on the way right I mean here's okay it's a good premise that he can't he's a good matchmaker and he can't do his own fucking thing

it's just it's still funny that's what makes it the single best film of the 2000s it does not hold up guys I know it is a movie that

has some problems when you watch it now really yeah well also do you remember how the trailer is like

a lady slaps a man and he comes over and he's like She's mad at you cause you said like Diet coke or whatever and it's like Get the fuck out of here what is this 17 magazine for like 92 Like don't say diet to a lady She'll think you mean she's fat

Does my butt look big in this Remember when that was supposedly what Like every woman said to every man Oh yeah Does my butt look big in this and people are like was supposedly what every woman said to every man? Oh, yeah. Does my butt look big in this? And people were like, people are talking about butts now. It's the 90s. Yeah, you can talk about it. We can finally talk about it. We can finally talk about it. David's going on a rant about God knows what.

I like Will Smith. Me too. Love him. Hitch and butts. Yeah, hitch and butts. Hitch and butts. Well, this, of course, is a blank check. It's a podcast about hitch and butts. Filmmakers who have massive success early on in their careers. With hitch and butts. Yeah, hitch and butts. Hitch and butts. Well, this, of course, is a blank check. It's a podcast about hitch and butts. Filmmakers who have massive success early on in their careers. With hitch and butts. And a given series of blank checks to hitch

whatever butts they want. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they get delivered via broomstick. Oh, baby. And yeah, there's a main series on the films of Hayao Miyazaki. It's called Howl's Moving Podcastle. We talk about Kiki's delivery service. And with us, back for the second time,

Kaboom! Caroline Franklin. She's from Variety. I can't remember if you were at Variety last time. I wasn't. I was at Vox last time. For a very similar film, I feel like. Showgirls? Yeah, about moving to the big city.

Just trying to make it. Innocence? Moving to a cruel world? Oh, no, it actually is. Ranching out on their own? Yeah. Here we go. Comic-Con news for you.

Okay. Halloween. Two sequels, both directed by David Gordon Green and starring Jamie Lee Curtis. 2020, Halloween kills. 2021, Halloween ends because they've never tried to end this series before that's never bitten them in the ass kind of felt like the last one ended

sure when she burned him up in the old basement yeah and it was like a complete closure to her emotional arc definitive moment where it began again when it made one badillion dollars in like one day when they were just like call day. Yeah. When they were

just like, it's called Halloween, fucking Michael Myers did it. And people were like, if I don't see this movie right fucking now, you know, like it made a gajillion dollars. I just think like, that's a sequel that I find depressing. Do you know what I'm saying? Halloween kills. Maybe he'll kill more podcasters. I would be into that. Podfade.

Yeah. Remember when he killed, he just massacred a podcast? Yeah. They were like, we're here with Michael Myers. And he's just like, poof. Yeah. And then that woman got nominated for Best Frady Cat Performance at the MTV Movie Awards. You frady cat.

What, are you afraid of the big man who's trying to kill you? Yeah, she lost to Academy Award winner Sandra Bullock. Really? Yeah. In what? Oh, Bird Box. Yes. Along with our friend Esther Zuckerman, Matt Starr, who's a great comedian here in the

city. I did the MTV Movie Awards post-show, live show, web wrap-up thing. So, right. You were up on the Freddy Cat Award and the Best Kiss. I think it's scared as hell now. They keep adjusting the titles. See, I thought it was scared as shit at first. Yes, it was.

And then now is it scared as hell? According to IMDB, Yeah, what is it? It is... It was scared as bleep for a while. Most frightened performance. Oh, boy. And here are the five nominees.

Here we go. Can I try to remember? Can I try to remember? Go ahead. Yep. Halloween, obviously. Halloween, the podcast lady. Right, the podcast lady. Who got murdered in a. Yep. Halloween, obviously. Halloween, the podcast lady. Right, the podcast lady.

Who got murdered in a fucking toilet. Right, okay. Sandra Bullock for Burbach's wins. Yes. Are the other three nominees... One TV, two movies. Right, one TV, two movies. One of them Scream Queens?

No. Nope. This is this year. Is it a Ryan Murphy? No. No, it's not. And it's not Riverdale. No. It's not. No, it's not. And it's not Riverdale. No.

It's not. No, it's like a true horror series is the one series. It's a true horror TV series. Yeah. Oh, Big Bang Theory. No. Bazinga. Bazinga.

Jim Parsons stares at Kaley Cuoco with dead eyes. He's terrified. He's like, why are we friends? It's a true horror. Oh, Walking Dead? No. What? It's one of those things you forgot happened

even though it was the hottest ship for two weeks. Because this year has been 10 years long. Haunting Hill House? Correct. The Haunting of Hill House. Victoria Pedretti. Okay. And then two movies?

Two movies. One of them, a fantastic movie. That we love. That we love. We love! Oh, oh, oh, of course. Alex Wolfe for Hereditary, who should have won that category. That's the best scared-as-shit.

I don't know. Burt Box had a Burt Box. It did have a Burt Box. Okay, and then the other one, is it a franchise? No. Yes. Is it? Yes.

It's a spinoff, I believe. Is it The Nun? No, but you're in the right direction. It's not Curse of La Llorona? La Curse of La Llorona. Oh, Linda Cardellini. For the green book. The Curse of the Green Book.

Yeah, she's the heart and soul of that movie. She is the heart and soul of The Curse of La Llorona. The Curse of La Llorona. The Curse of La Lloronia made a ton of money too. People will fucking see anything. Except for comedy. Yes, or other films. Conjuring is the most successful

horror franchise of all time. Right. And La Lloronia is kind of like cousins. La Lloronia. It's like not connected. Isn't it like a spinoff of The Nun or something? It's sort of like, right, it's become so disparate. Yeah, it's like

kind of touches it a little bit. Kind of touches The Nun. Touches The Nun. She's like, you shouldn't have done that. I'm a fucked up nun. What if The Nun is Robert De Niro? Shouldn't have fucking... I'll curse you. I can't wait for... I know La Laronia. I can't wait for... I know La Llorona. I can't wait for the Nun creation.

Yeah. And the Nun comes home. Yeah, the Nun comes home. The Nun plays Ouija. What if we just start intersecting them all? You know what I mean? Paranormal activity. Ouija.

Don't you think that's what's going to happen, though? Like, all these other rebooted franchises are, like, underperforming. They're just going to be like, like fuck we have to make one mega franchise that can compete with Marvel right it's like the Conjuring universe

is investigated by the men in black sounds great right and the Legos are there and Wreck-It Ralph is there too yeah he's gonna wreck it

fucking Vigo's there from Green Book hey it's fucking La Lloronia look I could drive you but you better not curse me Fucking Vigo's there from Green Book. Hey, he's fucking La Llorona. Look, I could drive you, but you better not curse me.

What would you do if tomorrow they announce a Green Book sequel? It'd be great. I'd be so fucking excited. But it's him driving someone else. Now he's driving a Japanese guy, and you're like, oh, Jesus. What's he going to say? MTV Movie Awards would have to bring back the best sandwich in a movie category. Best sandwich in a movie?

They had it once. Was Spanglish nominated? It was in 96 and that's the only year they had it. Fuck. Okay, wait. How many nominees were there? I have to find the actual nominees. All right, I'm finding them. The retired categories of the MTV Movie Awards are incredible.

The show used to be fun. I can say this now. I had to review it this year. That was impossible. I've never felt older in my life. Do this thing where they were like, hey, what was your favorite moment from the show? And I couldn say this now. I had to review it this year. That was impossible. I've never felt older in my life. Do this thing where they were like hey what was your favorite moment from the show and I couldn't name any.

There were three sandwiches nominated. Let's do it. 96. And here's the real fucking curveball. The winner is a movie your dad produced. No shit. Oh fuck is the winner Smoke? Ham and Cheese from Smoke. Wow. Your dad produced that, right?

Yeah, I think I told him that and he put it on his resume. That he won the MTV Best Sandwich? His films have won MTV Movie Awards. Wow, 96 has some good categories. Smoke beat out the Turkey Club from Four Rooms and the Sub from GoldenEye. Wow. Which is

one of the best James Bond jokes. Sub with tomatoes and provolone. It's when, you know, he's like, and what's this? And Q's like, that's my lunch! And it's, great joke. He's like, wait, does this fucking explode and turn me invisible? That's my lunch! It's just a regular sandwich. It's just a sandwich. Do you remember when... And it's just funny to think

about Q being like, can't wait to eat that sub. I'm like a nice old English man in a cardigan. He's like, ah! It doesn't feel like what he would pack. Yeah, but it's good because he can grab. He can go, that's my lunch. David's doing the grab. For the listener at home, it's great.

He's killing the grab. He's doing it perfectly. It's a really good physical comedy. Space work. What are they called sandwiches in the UK? You know how like regional names, like subs, grinders. Frankie might know because she's pretty worldly. She's the only person in this room who might have a favorite reference.

I did. Okay, so as the only person in this room who has ever lived in England Do they have like a regional sort of name? Can I talk about this? What's that? What would you have to say? One, I grew up in England What?

You've never All this time we've been friends You never mentioned Shut up We're doing two episodes today I can't believe I'm have to do this shit twice For one The sandwich is named after

The place sandwich in England There's a place called sandwich The Earl of Sandwich Was supposedly like so addicted to gambling That he was like I need one thing that I can hold in one hand And someone was like I don't know Put his meat in a bread And he lived in the airport, which is why they dedicated

one kiosk per airport to him, the Earl of Sandwich. But my favorite English word for sandwich is butty. Ooh. Yes. B-U-T-T-Y, which especially in the north

is like, you know, like a bacon butty. Can I ask a especially in the north is like a bacon buddy. Can I ask a question? Which is basically like a little roll with one thing in it. Gotcha. Okay. I know what you're talking about. Let me ask you this follow up. Why? Why is it called a buddy? Yeah. It's a great question. What's the etymology of a buddy?

It's usually like origin, 8th century weird peasants. I don't know, it's an old fucking country. People used to talk really well. You know what, though? Can I make a guess? Not for this. Can I make a guess? I just found out. Is it because they're using

the ingredients from the butt of the thing? No, that's a fair guess, but no, apparently it's from the word butter. Because butter is such a classic ingredient in a sandwich. Butter and bacon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I usually prefer not to dig deeper into British food because most of it is, you do not want to know. Here are some other English words for sandwich. Bap, which is like a big roll, but also is a very coarse way to say breast. Get your baps out. I agree. I said course. Oh boy. A sarnie, which is like a sandwich you get at the beach. Have they done that joke in a fucking movie where a guy's like

hey, get your baps out and then she raises two sandwiches from out of frame? Yeah, have you ever seen a carry-on movie? They're all like that. I haven't seen those. There's a lot of them. What if we did carry-on as a franchise for Patreon? It's like 40 movies. They're at the beach now right carry on the dmv pretty much carry on the accountant's office um but i always like to

bacon buddy sometimes you can get a chip buddy which is literally just a french fry sandwich pretty great i mean that's not very cool pretty great anyway you grew up in england it did i mean not as much as you i know it was like what was your chunk what were your years who were your years uh i mean it was only like three years but but it was like basically... She did a jazz set in England. Yeah, exactly. What years? Come on, come on, come on. Oh, this is true. I moved there the week that Princess Diana died. 97. And I remember that because we lived

like near-ish Kensington Palace and just watched everyone lose their lives. You were like, wow, this country's really sad. I remember... Have I told this story in the podcast? You know, my mom was a reporter who covered, you know, if something happened in England, she was on it. And I remember the day told this story in the podcast you know my mom was a reporter who covered you know if something happened in England

she was on it and I remember the day Diana died she went to Paris and then like you know the day they opened the memorial thing where they just

they just put out a book outside Kensington Palace and it's like you know and people were piling up the flowers and there was a book and it was like just sign the book

if you want to give your condolences and so my mom goes to check it out and there was a line that was like eight hours long and she like went to the back of the line and she was like you know it's like you have to wait all day to like sign a book and they were like yeah yeah totally and she came home and she was like this is like gonna be the biggest deal in the world like i don't think anyone understands how much this is hitting people i remember we went and put like flowers at the gate sort of thing and there was this gold balloon and i remember because every time we saw

it on the news after that the gold balloon was like further and further away because the cameras could not get any closer right because there were so many flowers anyway that's when you moved that's when i moved to england yeah i was nine sure and i left when i was 12 so it's like i when i left i was like this cute kid I was kind of a jerk but like I could be because I was a cute kid and then I went to England and puberty just happened

all over everywhere it was just I came back with like my mom had cut off all my hair I had my glasses weird move I will

all your hair it was a lot of hair it was she was sick of doing it I don't well no I do blame her I've never forgiven her she knows this I'll say that on mic I don't well no I do blame her I've never forgiven her she knows this

I'll say that on mic I don't care the exact point in time when you want to really shake things up big reset move across the country right when you turn 13

exactly so then when I very calm time I moved to from New Jersey and then back to New Jersey when I came back I just looked like

not they were like you can't pull that like cute bratty shit anymore really no I fell way down on the social order when I came back, I just looked like, they were like, you can't pull that cute bratty shit anymore. Really? No. I fell way down on the social order when I came back. They were like, this is not the same person.

Also, three years. I mean, it's like. It's just long enough to get used to it, just long enough to get a hint of an accent. And then if I had stayed one more year, I think I would have taken the common entrance exam, which is kind of like their SATs, where you then go to secondary school.

And then I might have just gone to boarding school and had dated life, you know? Well, I didn't go like their SATs where you then go to like secondary school. And then I might have just like gone to boarding school and had like David's life, you know? Well, I didn't go to boarding school. You didn't go to boarding school? No. All my, you know, posh little friends went to boarding school. It wasn't that posh. Oh, he says this. He swings his headphone cable.

Look, I'm swinging it around like he's some fucking constable. Just a little, little tosser. My mom, my parents, I should say, my parents refused to put me- Swinging around like a baton. It's a heavy cable. They wouldn't put you

in boarding school? No, well, no. They were never going to put me in boarding school. I think my mom would have been like, yeah, you should go to boarding school and I would have been the one to be like, mm-mm.

That's terrible. That fucks people up. She went to boarding school and it did fuck her up and she was still like, yeah, boarding school though. Every English person I knew whose parents had been

to boarding school, if you even brought it up, they'd be like, I'd never pick it up with my parents. It's such a thing. But no, I was not allowed to go to the American school, which does exist in London, which is like

trying to be like an American high school experience. You can speak English. Is it bilingual or do they only speak English? You're like, hello, and they're like, hey guys, and they're like, oh, hi, how you doing, man? Howdy, what's up? Better not ask anyone for a buddy over there.

Because they were like, look, you're in England, you might as well. Yeah, yeah, how you doing, man? Howdy, what's up? Better not ask anyone for a buddy over there. Because they were like, look, you're in England. You might as well keep it real. I'm like, I went to the school where you got the little uniforms at Harrods. Did you have a hat? Oh, I had two hats. One for summer, one for winter. The winter one was like a naughty elf hat. We looked like little naughties.

And then the summer one was like a Madeline straw boater that's like flat on top and super uncomfortable. My mom loved those boaters. There was a hat as part of the uniform. If a kid's wearing a hat in their uniform, you're like, that is the upper crust. Those are the fancy skulls. Oh, thank you. I had to wear a blazer. Just a black blazer.

I mean, blazer's standard. They just gave us sacks. In Jersey. Yeah. And the meat was still in them. You had to eat your way through. They were like, your lunch is in there. Every day. Are you guys doing like a potato sack race or something?

No, chemistry. You earned your sack. Every day you just walk to school naked and they give you your sack. That's what Jersey's like, right? Yeah. What a good time. Thank y'all for listening. Kiki's Delivery Service.

Kiki's Delivery Service. It's a goofy Friday on blank check. Highest grossing film of Japan that year. Really? And he's coming off of Totoro, which is like this cultural sensation. Yes. And which... Totoro's been elected Prime Minister. Which had been big, but then grown. Right. It's not like Totoro

just was an instant hit. It was like a hit that then became a big deal. Right. So for this, it's like, now everyone is like, Miyazaki. Right. He is for real. He is the king of animation. And this is a very crowd-pleasing movie. I mean, this is just a movie that is very, very nice. Oh, you think this movie's

lovable? Yeah. You think this one's whimsical and charming? Yeah. Kiki's Delivery Service? Are you sure? You're gonna keep crying. Just like, yes. I'll tell you what Kiki delivered to me. A great time! Thank you all for listening. Head and hands situation

across the table from us. Kiki certainly delivers the laughs. I'm Gene Shalit. I thought I saw Gene Shalit on the bus the other day because I saw a man who was stark white, like totally white, white hair and mustache. But it kind of looked like the Gene Shalit. Like he had that sort of mustache and the hair looked like it could be like how Gene Shalit. He had that sort of mustache, and the hair

looked like it could be how Gene Shalit was combing over his hair now if he was trying to replicate the hairstyle. And he was dressed very, very loudly. I mean, that also feels like a classic New York bus experience. That was the thing. I was just like, I haven't seen him on our screens in like 10 years.

He might look like this now. Or also, Gene Shalit's a product of New York. He's not the only Gene Shalit. There are a lot of them out there. So. I think it wasn't him, but I was like really staring him down. In 1985, a book is published. Okay.

Kiki's Delivery Service. A novel, right? By Eiko Kandono, yes. It's not a manga. It's a novel. No, children's fantasy novel about a young witch whose mother is a witch. Her dad's just a regular old guy. Just like in most Miyazaki movies, the dad's just like, hey, what's up?

He's a nice guy with glasses. He's got glasses. He's never fucking heard of fly. He's some fucking muggle. Miyazaki dads are hot. They are hot. No, well, all right. Have you already talked about the hot dads in Miyazaki? No, but they're good.

Let's get into it. Miyazaki dad sidebar. Miyazaki dad sidebar Miyazaki dad sidebar they tend to be goofuses and I guess I watched Totoro for the first time this week

and I was like that's a hot dad that's a hot dad did you like Totoro I really did it's so cute I mean it's just so nice it's too bad that

anyone who listens to our episode about it will never like it again or anything again oh no what did you do no you edited it to make it good

it's not our fault it's not our fault it's podfade it's unavoidable I love how we're making fun of a thing that will totally be forgotten in the month you know since by the time this episode comes out we'll be dealing with podfade fade the notion of podfade will have faded

so she's got a cat called Gigi it's a whole book and it's nice. And they fucking buy the rights to it. It's like Japan's answer to Sabrina. Yeah. Ghibli basically buys it and is like Miyazaki or Takahata,

the two directors we got, one of them will do this. Both of them were busy. And so initially Miyazaki's like, I'll produce it, but find a different director. And then he wraps up on Tot Miyazaki's like, I'll produce it, but find a different director. And then he wraps up on Totoro and he's like, you know what? I kind of like this.

I want to do this. He was getting hands on with the script and with story development. He's like, right. Yeah, yeah. I got some ideas about, you know, being a woman,

being a young woman in Japan. I want to put my experiences into this first film. Yeah. Right. That was the end? You usually have your leather-bound volume of Miyazaki interviews.

Take it. The starting point, this is David Reeds from the book that he bought about Hayao Miyazaki. With the glowing crest, with the line holding us up there. Here is an interview he gave in 1989 about Kiki's Delivery Service.

The starting point was wanting to make a film about a girl in adolescence she would be an ordinary girl who comes to tokyo from the countryside i wanted to depict these kinds of situations faced by such girls in our current society this is a fictional story set in a fictional land where witches live but you know he wanted it to be like this is what's happening now it's like we've got this country city divide divide, and these people are moving into Tokyo, and they're like, I don't know how to fucking hack this. This is like such a big, scary city.

And I love that the witch thing isn't a metaphor for any form of bigotry. Oh, totally. My God. It's a metaphor for talent. Right, right. It's whatever your thing is. It's not a metaphor for any sort of otherness. Right. It's whatever you've got to It's not a metaphor for any sort of otherness.

It's whatever you got to figure out how to do best in your life, your art, your craft, or your career, or whatever the thing is. I mean, I don't know. At one point she does say, like, I just want people to see me as I am. Here's a... Sure. I mean, I feel like we all feel that way. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I don't know. I just feel like witches always kind of have that underlying sort of half fear, half intrigue thing. That's true. I was so astounded

by the fact that no one in this movie ever goes like, a witch? A witch. Cast her out. A witch. They're mostly just

a little startled. They're like, oh, shit, a witch. Yeah, or the girls are kind of like, oh, you're a witch? How quaint. Oh, I mean,

the teens are mean to her. Yeah, the teens are kind of mean. Here's something else he says. Kiki goes into a slump when she finds out she can't fly, which happens late in the movie. She'll be depressed about other things in the future as well.

She may become sad, but she will climb out of that feeling. That's how I wanted to end the film. I didn't want her to have a happy ending with her business becoming a success or her becoming the town's sweetheart. I wanted her to give, I wanted to give the sense that she will repeatedly become dejected, but then regain her vitality

so he sort of ends it with like look it's gonna be ups and downs I mean this is the thing I'm really getting into with Miyazaki yeah

this guy's so good at making movies that are just about inside conflict yes where the outside conflict is not really a thing

like this movie will have like oh this scene she's struggling to find the cat toy that she dropped right you know good scene but like there isn't an overarching outside conflict it's just like this girl needs to figure it out um absolutely she's just figuring out her place in this i also feel like so many miyazaki movies not totoro not not yet this is probably the first one because the previous ones have all been more fantastic. And this, even though she's a witch who flies, is more grounded.

But a lot of Miyazaki stories are like, look, you got to get a job. Yeah. And you're going to learn through working. Get a job. Get a job. Miyazaki. Of course.

Miyazaki. As we all know, Miyazaki is a member of we all know Miyazaki is a member of Shana Nott he is of course a member of Shana Nott good job because like you know so much of

the pleasure and the you know sort of like emotional truth Kiki arrives at is through fucking rolling up her sleeves

and doing something sure like she gets a couple lucky breaks when she meets the wonderful bakery owner but then she's the wonderful bakery owner is good but she's- The wonderful bakery owner is good,

but she does have to earn her keep. She has to earn her keep just to clean up that attic. And, like, when she's- She has to eat pancakes for a while. You know, when she's got the flim flam with the cat statue.

You know, like, the girl's like, well, if you clean my floor, I'll help you out. Yeah. Like, it's not just like, I'm just gonna help you out because you seem like a nice lady. Right.

You know, you cut two kikis on the floor scrubbing. Yeah. She's gotta scrub that floor. Yeah. I mean, we were spirited away,, Kiki's on the floor scrubbing. Yeah. She's got to scrub that floor. Yeah. I mean, we spirited away, obviously, like has a floor scrubbing set piece.

Like he likes floor scrubbing. He likes work. But there's also like, she's so willing to do that. And she's also like, well, I can't just take, I can't do work for nothing.

I have to help. Yeah. Right. Like I remember when she, when she does find the cat toy in the window, I was like, just take it and run. Just go.

You found it. And she's like, excuse me, that's mine. I know you think it's yours. It's not. She doesn't have to. I would have just run away. Yeah.

Because I'm not as nice. And then Miyazaki's thing is, like, when she's running into, like, the more spoiled rich girl who, like, takes the pie and is like, I don't want this pie. You know, like, my grandma with her fucking pies.

Here's Miyazaki's take. Okay. This kind of thing happens all the time in real life. It might have been shocking for Kiki to hear. It might hurt her deeply, but there are many things in this world we just have to bear. Yeah. You know, where he's like, I'm not trying to say a lesson about rich kids. I'm

just being like, yeah, man, you know, sometimes you'll work hard and they'll be like, fuck that. And you're like, okay, I guess that was my day. Remember when the grandma was like, oh, it's my famous herring and pumpkin pie. My first reaction was, ooh, I don't know. It looks really gross.

I mean, that response is bad. Oh, no, the response is so bad that I felt bad. I want that pie. Give me that pie. I mean, I guess if you treat the pumpkin more like a squash and it's not like a sweet pumpkin. Yeah, I mean, there's a restaurant in Boston that I like that makes like, it's an

Afghanistan restaurant. I didn't know you grew up in Boston. How do you like those apples? Them apples? Them apples. Please. That makes like a pumpkin and beef dish that when you hear it, you're like, oh, what? And then you taste it and you're like, hmm, this is the best thing I've ever eaten in my life.

Like, what the fuck? I love this. Also, the grandma did like a very British bake show thing where it's like there's a fish on top. Yes. Oh, I know. The sculpted fish. Showstopper. Yeah. That and like the kiki bread circle. So gross. Griffin's just like, no thank you.

I was like, you're trying to remind us that there's a fish inside? It's a detail. It might be like kind of a warning where it's like, looks like a pie, right? Yeah. Some skull and crossbones at the top of the pie. Yeah, would you actually rather not know and then be surprised with fish? I would rather, here's my thing. We were talking about this before we recorded.

It's weird that I don't like the taste of iced coffee at all. Yeah. I barely like iced tea. You've got a lot of your sort of like little hangups with food. That's a surprise. I got a bazillion hangups, but a lot of them are, I'm a little bit binary about like, this is how this thing is, you know? Sure.

Like don't put savory stuff in the sweet stuff. I might point out though that you like raspberry coffee. I like so many weird fucking things. Sure, sure, sure. That don't make sense with my food hangups. Right. I'm saying like if I get a meat dish and then there are raisins on it, I'm like, I like so many weird fucking things that don't make sense with my food hang-ups. I'm saying, like, if I get a meat dish and then there are raisins on it, I'm like, I like raisins.

Oh, I'm with you on this one. I like meat. Don't put raisins in your meat. I don't know. Have you ever had a Moroccan lamb stew with golden raisins in it? It is pretty lit. Yeah, once in a while, if someone wants to throw a raisin in, it's not my thing. I was unhappy I got some meat and raisins the other day, and I was unhappy.

You got meat and raisins? Yeah. Why'd you go to Jimmy's meat and raisin shop? That was my mistake. You gotta stop going there. I'll have the number one. Oh, you want the meat and raisins? Meat and raisins? And you're like, can I hold the raisins?

And he's like, nope. But I just feel like that kind of thing where it's like, we all know fish. Sure. Yeah. Don't usually hang out in a pie. You know what they do? The UK. So it's not like if they didn't sculpt a fish on top of the pie, I would forget the fish was in it.

Right. But I also don't need you to underline it a bunch of times. Because if I'm going to enjoy this, I'm going to be like, you know what? Fish and pie taste surprisingly different than I because if I'm going to enjoy this I'm going to be like you know what fish and pie tastes surprisingly different than I expected. I'm not thinking about it I'm just taking a bite of a thing like I kind of want like whatever umami sensation of just like this is like greater

the sum of the parts but you're saying that you would reject that pie you would break that grandma's heart no I wouldn't just smash it. Here's my answer I would not act like this fucking brat. I would go like, oh, thank you so much. I'd close the door and then I'd throw it out.

Sure. I wouldn't stand there and go like. Or you'd be like, fish pie going once. I don't want it. Like, you know, once you close the door. Right. Kiki's so sad about it. Well, I think.

I wouldn't do it to Kiki's face. I think that moment is tremendous because it's not Kiki that's being rejected. No. It's the grandma. But Kiki just had this whole day with this woman. She knows how hard she worked for it. Kiki's like, that's a complete person. I helped her. We discovered the sort of, you know,

that she likes the old oven better. We worked hard. Humanity! And Kiki's like, and then I dragged this fucking thing over in the rain and the girl's like, yeah, no thank you. She's got sweat equity in that pot. Exactly. Right. But it's not like I feel like it would just be easier and more manipulative if like

Kiki had made the pie and the girl is like I don't want your pie. Right. Then it's like the girl's being mean to Kiki. It's just this moment where she realizes that people can be really careless about Kiki. Kiki is just like a UPS delivery person. Right. Standard run in the mill delivery witch. Exactly.

What was the thing I was going to say? Oh, I also love that when she gets sick and stands up. Why am I forgetting his name already? Tombo. I was going to say Jumbo. Tintin Waldo. And she stands up, Tombo, and you're like, this is going to be one of those things where he's so angry at her and she can't explain.

She's hiding. She doesn't want to face him. Right. And so he's like, you were sick. Yeah, he's like, yeah, sorry, you got sick. Right. Yeah. I was told by the nice baker lady.

I wish you had told me directly, but it's fine. I understand. Everyone gets sick. He doesn't even say that. He's just like, yeah, you were sick. Yeah. Too bad. I found out. I heard. Right. I heard you were sick. I had to wait for me directly, but it's fine. I understand. Everyone gets sick. He doesn't even say that. He's just like, yeah, you were sick. Yeah. Too bad. I found out.

I heard. Right. I heard you were sick. I had to wait for like 10 minutes for it. He's like, I'm sorry you got wet or something. Like something very cute. I just love that there's no fucking fight over that.

Well, and I also love that like, okay, so Kiki, all right, this is a movie about Kiki. She feels the shame, and she's like,

I'm going to get yelled at in the movie. It's like, no, it's fine. He's not a monster. Right. Jesus. It's a misunderstanding.

Yeah. You know, whereas like in some the movie it's like no it's fine he's not a monster right jesus it's a misunderstanding yeah you know whereas like in some movies it's like you know a misunderstanding leads to scar assuming kingship yeah where he's like geez simba when you think about it you kind of killed your dad and simba rather than being like well i wait it's like no i didn't he what what are you talking about he's like you're right i did i gotta go which movie is that you're talking about the lion king the lion king okay king alliance is king he's a lion he's a lion uh no kiki she's 13 years old she lives with her parents as many a 13 year old does but she's a witch when you're 13 you gotta hop on your fucking broomstick get your fucking shine box and go to a town that's witchless this is what I want to know from the book

do they ever explain why every town gets one witch how many witches do you need that's so much pressure it's weird it's like a witch bat mitzvah at 13 you then have to rumspringa but also go on

like a church mission it's like yeah it's kind of a mix of like you gotta grow up but also you gotta kind of learn your trade right

you gotta live in the real world when she gets there she's like is there a witch here they're like no she's like chill I'm your witch now she's like

there is now put up a notice right yeah which is like and like you get the impression that her mom is kind of like a potions witch that's right they all have skills

you know like potions is kind of her major because I love when they introduce the mom visually I was like oh that's kind of cool her mom's like a chemist in the movie and I'm like oh no no she's a witch doing potions oh my god though that garden lab like greenhouse thing can we talk about the houses in this movie

they're beautiful. Like every house is so specific. The production design is so good. Where does this film take place? You know, fantasy world. It feels very French. I also thought it felt very San Francisco. I kept like accidentally just assuming it was San Francisco with the trolley cars.

I know it's not literally that. They went on a trip, Miyazaki and his senior staff. They went on a trip around to sort of look at towns. They settled on Stockholm and other Swedish cities was their main visual inspiration. And then they kind of just tweak it as they see fit. You know what I mean? Of course, it's Miyazaki. So there's also like a Zeppelin.

Yeah. She called the island like a town floating on the water. But it's like a big city. Yeah. Like she's like, I found a town and I'm like, Kiki, this ain't no town.

This place has like multiple schools. Ben is still crying. No, I appreciate it. I told David, I was like, I'm going to be, I'm going to cry on this podcast. But now I feel like Ben's doing it for me, and I'm really grateful.

What a sweet boy. In the book, the book is simpler, and in the book, her broomstick breaks so she can't fly, so she has to fix the broomstick. And Miyazaki is like, no, it needs to be more just like she emotionally loses the ability to access her flight. You know what I mean? She has to just sort of be brought down and then figure it back out. Well, this whole weird kind of Polar Express thing, too, where she stops being able to hear the cast. Yeah, like, she has to, like, just sort of be brought down and then figure it back out. Well, this whole, like, weird kind of, like, Polar Express thing, too, where, like, she stops being able to hear the cast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I can't talk about that one without— I don't know what that—what's the Polar Express, though? The Polar Express, the whole thing is that, like, there's the bell, and when you get older, you stop being able to hear the bell. Right. You know what I also like about— The adults think the bell is broken. Right.

Until a kid hears it, and they realize, oh, I've now grown up too much. Yeah, yeah. What were you going to hear the bell. You know what I also like about. The adults think the bell is broken. Right. Until a kid hears it. And they realize, oh, I've now grown up too much. Yeah, yeah. What were you going to say? Sorry. I was going to say what I like about, even though she says that her skill is flying and that she like always knew how to fly and everything, she's not incredible at it in the beginning. Like she's like crashing into the trees and they're like, oh, I'm going to miss the sound

of those bells because she's always crashing into those trees. And then, you know, she has her flight and it's beautiful. But she's still like, she's still kind of figuring it out. She's not a great flyer. Because they're like, oh, are you sure you don't want to wait a month? You were going to wait a month. And she's like, no, I'm ready. I'm doing this.

She does it a little bit before she's ready. She has a really funny line in there where she's like, well, what if I meet a boy in the next month? And then I like, I don't go. That could happen. Oh, my God. My mom used to tell me that all the time she was like when I said I wanted to go to LA she's like you gotta go now you gotta go in case you fall yeah it was weird she told me that and this HR person I like talked to about like the business in LA she's like you gotta go before you meet a guy I was like that's a weird thing to tell me I just met you but it is like a thing anyway I just

love that she's not awesome at it and i also love oh my god the opening sequence when she's flying yeah so pretty i'm just like clawing at my face right now and she's flying over like their cool towns they're kind of neon you know she meets the other witch who's kind of like um this is kind of my area oh that cool witch with like her cool like hair and i know it's like she she's got a really stuck-up cat, and Gigi's like, fuck that cat. I'm going to relax, you know what I mean? Gigi rules, by the way.

Oh, yes. Gigi's good. Yeah. The cat. Yeah, yeah, good guy. I feel like... Or good girl, but then Phil Hartman. That's the...

Yeah, which versions did you guys watch for this one? I watched the dub always. I mean the subs. Yeah, I watched the subs, but I always, especially when it's interesting people like that, perversely... You click over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the first time I saw it, it was the subs, but I always, especially when it's interesting people like that, perversely flip over. The first time I saw it, it was the dub. I saw it at a substitute teacher who basically wheeled in the TV and was like, here we go. We were saying even though Totoro had a massive success, and then after this, Mononoke gets released by Miramax.

This one was just released on vhs by disney 10 years later with phil hartman and kirsten dunst it's the last phil hartman released it's a small soldiers reunion right um but but yeah it's like it took 10 years to get any form of distribution in the u.s right uh never Never played in theaters here. Only came to VHS like 10 years later. And Siskel and Ebert, this was the first time they reviewed a straight-to- VHS movie as a proper movie. Was it two thumbs up? They gave it two thumbs up.

Oh, yeah. Because they would have their little VHS corner that, like, wasn't reviews. It would be like, here are some things that just came out that we reviewed eight months ago, or here are some things that came straight to VHS and we're just telling you they exist. And they gave it a proper review that was validating it as like, I don't know why this isn't getting treated better,

but this is a real movie. That's 10 years old. It's funny. It's funny that this, I mean, this comes out the same year as The Little Mermaid. I pointed that out on Totoro. Right. You know, not in the same countries,

but like, you know, Japan has this, and America has The Little Mermaid in the same year. And like, this is a movie about womanhood and growing up and like discovering yourself. And so is a little mermaid, but in the little mermaid, it's like, I'm in love with that guy I've never met. And I will give up my voice to marry him before we even have a fucking conversation.

But it's also interesting. I love the little mermaid, but it is, you know, it's a wild movie. The, the Disney VHS released it really, really well. But you're saying this comes out the same year as The Little Mermaid, which is the beginning of the Disney Renaissance.

Yes. And then Disney releases this in 1998, which is almost the end of the Disney Renaissance. Yeah. People, if they are charitable, include Tarzan. Yeah, I know. And they go like, that's the last. I know they do. They should not.

It's very charitable. It's very charitable. Don't do that. Right. Stop that. What is 98?, what is 98? What movie is 98? Because Mulan's.

Hercules? 97? It's not Mulan? Mulan is 98. Maybe Mulan is 98 and Hercules is 97. Hercules is 97. Okay. Mulan is 98 and Tarzan is 99.

Gotcha. And then in 2000, we have The Empress New Groove, which is so good, but it's kind of outside all of it. Yeah, and then in 2002, you have Lilo and Stitch, and those are the two best Disney films of the last 30 years. But yes, as you noted,

the cat in the Japanese version is voiced by a woman, which is typical for Japanese depictions of talking cats, and is like, basically like, Kiki, take it easy Kiki watch out

you don't want to do that like very conscientious very kind of cautious not very a good character good friend not very like comic relief

right she has a couple like good lines yeah she's got some ripostes totally but you know but in the American version

it's like Phil Hartman as like Salem from Sabrina exactly like wisecrack it's such a different vibe and they now I think on the Blu-ray their DVD they've cut a lot of these out Phil Hartman as like Salem from Sabrina. Exactly. Like Wisecrack. It's such a different vibe. Right. And they,

now I think on the, on the Blu-ray, their DVD, they've cut a lot of these out. Oh really? But at the time, Disney added extra Phil Hartman jokes, even when. Yes.

When the cat's mouth is not moving. Correct. Right. Yeah. So now I think they've been reduced. Yeah. But look, I mean the cast doesn't make sense

because we all know that all cats are girls and all dogs are boys. The science. Oh, we are boys. That's science. That's what God wants. What about Salem? Salem Saberhagen from Sabrina. Great character. Yeah, but that show's a fantasy.

It's not real. It's a TV show. That's true. I just want to bring up Salem. Come on, Salem. He was so funny. He'd be like, uh, I don't think so. I like when he would read the newspaper.

He had little glasses. Yeah. How's he turning the pages? I don't think so. I like when he would read the newspaper. He had little glasses. Yeah. How's he turning the pages? I don't know, but I want to know. I agree with you, Jenner, it's a construct. I'm obviously just joking, but also all dogs are boys and all cats are girls, and I'm not gonna back down on this issue. All dogs go to heaven, all cats go to heaven. I have science to back it

up. I'm sorry, Ben. Oh my god, his face when I just said that. I want to talk to someone who goes to heaven, too. Yes, she does. She goes right to heaven. Yeah, yeah, Ben. Oh my god, his face when I just said that. I want to talk to someone. She goes to heaven, too. Yes, she does. She goes right to heaven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In due time. It was joking. Her name is Pig and she's nice. That's good. That's good. I'm going to give you some more Miyazaki.

I love it. I want to make Ben cry again. Let's do it. The old lady who bakes Kiki a cake is a nice acquaintance. Ben's already crying. But listen, what gives Kiki more pleasure is the first person... Listen to what I'm saying. I'm listening. What gives Kiki a cake is a nice acquaintance. Okay, Ben's already crying. But listen, listen. But what gives Kiki more pleasure is the first person... I'm just going to hold back the tears. Listen to what I'm saying. I'm listening.

What gives Kiki more pleasure is the first person who visits her room as a friend, not a landlord. That's like when her home becomes real in Miyazaki's eyes. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

Like when you move to the big city. And you make that first friend. Right, right, right. And you have them over. Ursula. And you're excited to show them your stuff. How you set things up. He's talking about Ursula, you know, the cool artist girl. Yeah, right, right. And you have them over. Ursula. And you're excited to show them your stuff. Right, you know, he's talking about Ursula,

you know, the cool artist girl. Yeah, she's so cool. She understands Kiki's anguish in an affirming way. I think these aspects are much more valuable to Kiki than whether her business will succeed. This is the same

for the animators around me. They go around, they go out drinking late at night and they say, maybe I should call it quits. Maybe I should go back to my hometown and give up. They too are searching for a place of refuge and trying out different ways of living.

But it's not easy for them to regain their vitality. They repeat their feelings. Things don't work out. They can't work out. We can't help but think this is a disappointment in our path in life. Those reading the book will go on a similar path. But people often turn out to be helpful when we get to know them. Hey, that's the theme of the film.

Miyazaki is a genius. I'm getting a C.I. too because now I'm thinking about the fact that Miyazaki made this movie to make his employees feel better. It's just one of those things where you hear about what a taskmaster he is and how intense it is to work for him. And the Ghibli animators work their fingers to the bone. He's a very deeply emotionally intelligent person. When you hear him talking like that you're like if I worked for him I would be obsessed with him. Like I would, everything he said I

would treasure is like a little pearl of wisdom you know? Well look not that it's one to one but that's like in a far more sort of how would I put this? Obtuse maybe sort of

antagonistic way. That's how people talk about like Lorne Michaels. This guy's like scary and he works people hard. He's kind of like weird ultimate dad. But there's like an obsessive thing. You want to make dad proud. You go on like a walk with him and he says something and you're like oh my god.

He's like summed it all up. It's why fucking Marin always asks the Lauren question whether they auditioned for it or whether they were on the show for a minute or whatever because everyone has it. I have the fucking story from meeting him once where everyone has the, he says some weirdly profound thing to you

that rings in your head. I've told you what he said to me, right? I don't think so. Try silence. He said, try silence. No, I think about this all the fucking time. I had gotten cast on the Mulaney pilot. It felt

crazy that I had gotten that role. Yeah. We had to do a rehearsal thing at the NBC Rockefeller Center. And I was hanging out there. And someone knocked on the door and was like,

Lauren would like to meet you. Oh, my God. Right. So you're like, what? Yeah, right. And go down corridors, four offices, whatever. They make the popcorn. Truly.

Right. Standing in the vestibule outside his office. Did he make you wait a like, a long time? No, well, this is what happened. So there's, like, the vestibule outside his office, and I'm in the hallway outside the vestibule, and the vestibule is, like, all the loranets, which are, like, his ten female assistants, right?

And he's standing. Seems healthy. Yep. In the doorframe of his office, looking out the vestibule at all the loranets and he's just listening and he's like, and remember we have to put two tickets aside for John and do this and we

need to see what the edit is like on that. Griffin, come inside. No need to be scared. We need to cut 15 minutes. He could feel it. He could feel the fear. I was like, I have to be outside of his range of peripheral vision here. And I went, oh no, I'm not scared. Which I'm sure.

Great thing to say. Really sold him. Always a good thing to say to someone. No, you are. You are. I think he bought it. Sure. And then I walk inside.

So he didn't make me wait. But then once I was in there, there was three minutes of silence as he made popcorn and arranged his office. And he was like, have a seat. You have not told this story before. I've never told you this before. I don't think so. I've definitely not told it on the podcast, but I thought I told you personally. Maybe you told me what he said, but I don't remember all this preamble.

The only chair in the office is not facing him at the desk. It's like facing the other wall. And I was like, I'm not going to be presumptuous enough to move the chair. This feels like one of those tests that people talk about in these auditions. So I sit in the chair and then I rotate my entire upper body. So my legs are pointing in one direction and my torso is pointing like 60 degrees in the other direction. Like a Gumby situation? Totally.

And then he sits down with a bowl of popcorn. Are you allowed to eat the popcorn? No, it's for him. He's like hugging it. And he says, so how do you feel? Just in general? That's the only question, right? And I go, well, I feel incredible. You know, I've been like, you know, struggling at this for like, you know, five or six years now and just auditioning and doing shows in basements and trying to get anything. This is the first time I was ever getting close to like getting on a TV show. And somehow I tested for these two other shows

and I didn't really like either one. And I would have been like happy to do it because I would have been happy to be working. But the idea of having to be on that for seven years is like a little terrifying when you're signing that contract. And then this show is just like, I think it's so funny

and everyone on it is so incredible and this character I love. And like, so I'm not just happy that I have a job I'm happy because it's like something I actually want to do. Solid answer. And he without a pause goes well you'll get sad eventually.

Fuck. And I think about it all the fucking time because and I don't know how he knew this but I genuinely when I got the Mulaney pilot, I went, oh, cool. So my depression is solved. Fair enough. Yeah. And I didn't say that to him, but I was like.

You were sort of saying, like, I'm feeling great. I feel like I finally did it. I had been struggling with severe depression and anxiety my entire life, but all I needed was one role on a sitcom. I need to buck. My brain's going to be perfect now. And then he just proceeded to go well you know I mean you'll learn the craft

you know you'll have to figure out how to play out to the audience and find your voice and this and that and just like said stuff for like you know a minute and then went you'll be fine and then stood up and patted me on the shoulder and went I'll see you in LA and that was it and the only other time he talked to me was after the pilot he went

good work. But you'll get sad eventually, I think, any time I'm feeling too hot on myself or about anything. I know Lorne is this tricky cultural figure at this point. Yes, very tricky. I think one thing is, obviously, SNL is a big thing, so SNL. But also, we watched and loved a sitcom for many years about that kind of a relationship in 30 Rock. You know what I mean? Even though

if it's not a direct Lorne parody, it's that parody of going into the big leather-bound office and having this sort of insane rich person. Right, like in the first season especially, it's just so removed. I mean, that dynamic in 30 Rock is so great. I'll say, just the other little note about this story, when we had to do the rehearsal in New York,

they were like, it's going to be in one of Lauren's offices, because he's got like six offices in 30 Rock. Yeah, because he's in charge of Broadway video. The one that we went to, which is the one that he apparently does not spend much time in, because he spends most of his time in that SNL office, which is the one with the big window looking

out to the stage, which is where I sat in the position that probably led to my back injuries six years later. The office that we met in was the Jack Donaghy office, 100%. It was 92% accurate. Like a secret bathroom?

Yes. We walked in and Mulaney said, I wanted to have this rehearsal in here because I worked here for eight years and I never got to use the secret bathroom. And he hit the wall and the door opened and he used the bathroom. Oh my god, good for him. He made me watch. He was like, Griffin, come in.

You're gonna watch me pee. I will say that ever since working at Variety, I have to list all the exec producers for every show, which I never had to do before and it's made me so much more aware of so many things. First of all, how many are usually just men all around. Maybe one woman.

And then there are men. Have you heard of them? You're not great. Wait a second. What are you talking about? I'm so great. Him? But he's on everything.

You just forget Lorde. You just forget how many things he's doing and how many things he, like, won't let people do without him. You know, that sort of thing. I mean, I will say the one time I've ever seen him was at, like, a CAA Christmas party, like, 20 or 13 or something. Never seen more, like, high-profile celebrities in my life. I was a plus one. I was not prepared. I was in, like, all Forever 21 gear, like, with my glasses.

Which I will also say, if you're ever in an LA party, dress down. People will be like, who's that? That doesn't have to care. It worked. It should not have. I was like, oh, I'm a writer's assistant. Please don't talk to me. I've never seen more celebrities in a smaller space in my life and still the table that was getting the most attention was like Fallon and

Lorne sitting at this like round booth and everyone was just kind of going up, paying for the court thing. It was totally that. And it was so noticeable even in this environment. That was the nexus, right? Everyone was orbiting around that booth. Well, that's like the... No one should have that much power,

is my take. It's too much. I agree. One man should have all that power is the thing that I said famously in my song Power off the album My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. It was after you had that Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. I feel like no one ever gives me credit for that album.

It's crazy. You were the one who wanted to talk about all the lights. I got a perfect score from Pitchfork and then now everyone acts like I didn't write and perform all of that album. It's like literally we've forgotten. Bitch, you're a monster. That's it.

God, remember when that album was good and it was just like, oh yeah, Kanye West, he's great, we love him. He does the music. Simpler time. Come on, let's relitigate every fucking bad guy. Come on, let's do it. Famously at the SNL after party,

Lauren just holds court wherever the location changes, but he finds his little corner table or booth famously at the SNL after party Lauren just holds court wherever you know the location changes but he finds his little corner table or booth and he sits there until five o'clock in the morning

yeah and it's like a big deal like the writers of the new cast members are like maybe this is the week that he like invites me over to the booth got such like scraps

of affection but they're like he never goes home right he stays out the whole time he outlasts everybody yeah

and he just sits there in that corner and has a conversation he likes walks too you hear about the walks yeah millennia and seth did a seth myers did a podcast a while back and they talk about the walks yeah like there's some sort of like walks they took with lauren once but there's the mafia thing i mean you talking about how many things he ends up as an executive producer on there are these stories of like yeah when i was like a cast member and then I like made my first movie, it wasn't with him. And he like, it took me eight years

to like bring back this guy. And he doesn't forget. He does not forgive. Right. And now he does it with like all of the TV shows, like, you know, Shrill and all these things. Like he sort of- Other two.

Right, right. Other two? The other two? Right. Anyone who like comes out from under him, it's like you're going to stay in the family. Right? You know, at least for the first thing.

Los Espookys fucking rule. You like it? Los Espookys? Los Espookys is so funny. So funny. It's so funny. Have you seen Los Espookys? I've only seen the first two episodes.

So funny. Yeah, I ain't watched the rest. It's such a like, everyone thinks it sucks. It seems complicated. He's doing double thumbs down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get right into it.

No, I mean, yeah, they're just like, this is what it's about. We're just like a horror gang. That was a hard one to review because I was just like, oh, how do you describe this show? Horror gang is a good way to put it. It's also, it is so thoroughly strange. I know.

Yeah. In a way that's not unexpected, but that you're just kind of like, this is incredible that like Julio had this wave where it's like, wait, the New York Times is writing about a guy who writes sketches. Does the weird sketch on SNL. Who isn't credited. You know, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, that someone like put all of this together and then clearly they just gave him this weird is writing about a guy who writes sketches who isn't credited. That someone put all of this together and then clearly

they just gave him this weird blank check to be like Yes, you can make a Spanish So funny. And to do it in Spanish and I remember

they were like Mike! I'm sorry, she's so cute. She's the best. She rolled. She rolled. It's very funny. One of America's

best hat comedians. Such good hats. Such good hats. Such good. She ruled. It's very funny. Yeah. One of America's best hat comedians. Such good hats. Such good hats. Such good hats. You know who's got a cool piece of headwear? Kiki. She's got a big bow. I was going to say,

thank you for bringing me on your Lorne Michaels podcast. Yes. Yeah, seriously. Let's get off of Lorne. Yeah. We can, you know, as long as we're on cute people,

I can talk about Kiki because, not Kiki, Ursula. Let's talk about Ursula for a second. Look, I don't go looking for queer subtext. Sometimes it just finds me, but I feel like their dynamic is very much like the cute babysitter, the older babysitter. You're like, I just want to be this person.

Yeah, but also, do you know who fucking voiced her in the American version? I do, go ahead, though. She named Garofalo. Yeah, she did. They found the subtext. Yeah. She's like the cool alt girl

you know she's like I don't really live in town I'm a little too weird for town you know I'm out here yeah no um yeah

you get me Kiki's just like oh my god you're so cool I just want to be you she's gonna like five years be like oh now I see why yeah

right right in five years she'll put it all together right yeah the final puzzle she'll be like Tombow

we're more of like a friend dynamic, right? Yeah. Well, you know what? I feel like that's true though. Like,

like his stupid friends as terrible friends who might as well just be like James Spader in that convertible. They suck. They're just like these preppy assholes.

He does have the pretty I'm like, why are you friends with them? And I think that's probably part of why he's like, Kiki seems like cool and fun and my friends suck. So yeah.

Yeah. But also like, what a bunch of dorks. He's like, yeah, you want to come to this party? We're the flying club. We're amateur propeller makers.'s not it's not like they're like you know dropping ecstasy i mean maybe they are the two things are mutually exclusive that's fair that's fair yeah right yeah i don't know i just feel like their dynamic was always

very friendly they're like oh is that your girlfriend he's just like i don't know she's just like a cool witch i know and she's so nice about her so nice he doesn't seem to enjoy hanging out with them like he doesn't seem to enjoy hanging out with them. Like, he doesn't seem to dislike them. They're the kids, right? So you kind of have to hang out, I guess. I sort of had that. In middle school, all my best friends were the guys on the basketball team.

Because I went to a very small school, and we had almost no shared interests. You know? And it was just like, well, these are like the six guys I hang out with. I go to a school with 40 people per grade. So then when you meet someone who you actually have things in common with, you're like, oh, this is a whole new thing. It was sort of like what you were talking about. I can't talk about it on this podcast, but I went

off to summer camp and I met cool older kids. And then I was like... Sirens. Sirens. Send out an amber alert to everyone's phone. Flash flood warning. But no, then I came back to school and everyone was like, what the fuck is this?

And I was like, oh, I figured out what I actually like, you know? It's big. I feel like he's like, oh, she flies. She's going to get it. Like, she'll get my like weird flight thing. I think he's like, this is the kind of person I actually want to be friends with, as opposed to the friends that are based on geographical convenience. Right. But she's got in the early scenes, whenever he's like, hey, what's up?

Hey, how you doing? She's like, oh, Jesus. She's just like, I'm not, I don't know. I don't know what this is that you're talking to me. I'm not ready to take that at face value. You're suspiciously nice. Something's up. Right, exactly, exactly.

Whereas, like, at the bakery, the pregnant lady is nice, obviously. You know, oh, so no, right? But she's going to earn her keep to live there. I love when she makes a little Kiki in the bread. Oh, my God. Yes. See, again, showstopper. Showstopper.

Bake-off showstopper. Maybe Kiki's, maybe Osono should, they should do like an all Miyazaki baking show. How weird would it be if Ghibli was like, yeah, our next project is a 10-part animated reality cooking competition. Oh, my God. Are you kidding? animated reality cooking competition.

Are you kidding? Mary Berry and Zaniba from Spirited Away are close cousins. There's a lot of overlap. Wait, what was I going to say? It is a reality show. We aim to

represent reality in its purest form. Triangle Bread Boy. Ben, that's what you called him? Chunky boy. No, I was calling him a chunky bread boy. Chunky bread boy. I'm sorry. But he looks like a big triangle. The upside down triangle in shape like a stone. Yes. I like that he never really speaks

but he's just grumpy. He says look once. Yeah, right. I love him. He's emoting so much energy and just like... When he's showing off for the cat. He's so good at his emoting so much energy and just like when he's showing off for the cat yeah he's kind of he's so good at his his craft too

you can tell and he's proud of it he's got like a Nicolas Cage and Moonstruck vibe you know what I mean where he's just like it's all going into the bread

no one's talking to him though and then like in the last in the post credit scene as Ben just discovered as we were watching it with him oh no me too I didn't

you realize like, oh, he's the mother of a Sonos baby, the father of a Sonos baby. Genderly construct. Like they're together. Oh. Yeah, I didn't realize that either.

I remember like I was watching my roommate and I was like, oh, I like that. You know, you don't know. Like she's just like having this kid and then I was like, oh, no, they are together. Oh, you know,

like and they go off. And then you see him with the baby. That's the post-credit scene? There's one other post-credit scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She sends a letter. Like, her parents are reading a letter. Oh, yeah, she sends a letter to her parents

where she's like, yeah, anyway, life's tough, but I'm figuring it out. I have some more confidence now. Right. It's fine. I miss you. And Thanos says, I'll do it myself. And fucking Nick Vallelonga shows up

and he's like, hey, I'll take six loaves. You're kind of like a virtuoso. It's Italian for pretty good. We need more Villalonga. We do. Villalonga's got to come back. Bring him to MCU. Hey, Tony Stark, this guy, he's smart.

Makes this iron suit. I don't know. I feel like my Villalonga I need to like... Look, that's Amore. That's Amore. That's Amore is going to happen. Oh boy. We don't need that. I'll tell you that much. I need to like look that's amore is gonna happen that's amore is gonna happen that's oh boy starring Katya Amore we don't need that I'll tell you that much

here I want to read another Miyazaki quote okay okay alright I am very self-conscious sometimes I can't even ask a train station attendant

if I'm at the correct exit sometimes I'm too embarrassed to stand still and look around to figure out which street I should take in town I keep trudging along

the wrong street and end up nowhere near my destination. I've done a lot of foolish things like that in my life. I never thought I wanted to depict that sort of thing in a film, but at my age, I've come to look back on such things objectively. Foolish behavior can be quite heartwarming. So that's sort of his vibe with Kiki, where it's like, look, she's kind of a wacko sometimes.

She's figuring it out. She's figuring it out. She's eating pancakes. She's sleeping in a dusty room in the attic. Just figuring it out. She's eating pancakes. She's sleeping in a dusty room in the attic. Ben is sobbing. Catching a cold. Ben is a dehydrated husk. He's cried all the water in his body.

Just a tumbleweed. Yeah, he's just a skin flap now. He looks like when SpongeBob is fried out. Oh, God. Oh, boy. Yeah, it's really good about how, I feel like when she first gets to the city and everyone's like, oh, holy shit, a witch.

And then they're kind of like, cool, witch. And then they just keep going. It feels like that moment in Spider-Verse where he's just, you know, they crash land and everyone's just stepping over him. And she's like, thanks, New York. Like, here we are. And she's a little bit like, but I'm a witch.

And they're like, yeah, that's cool. I think there's so many things like that like as i already said the the not becoming a fight between her and tombo like all these like dumb things that other movies ring out for conflict that are never the fun part of the movie you know it's like oh we have to get through this thing to get to the next thing come on get to the to the part I like, you know? Yeah, but she's just like sad sometimes. Yeah. And like, yeah, because after when she doesn't meet his friends, but he's like, come on the blimp with my friend. And she's like, would rather not feel like it's going to not be fun for me.

And then she just gets sad. And she's like, I don't know why I'm sad. Look, and that's a mood. It really is. I relate to that. And I feel like I very rarely see movies that are just like this objectively, quote unquote, fun activity is something that's going to bum me out and make me feel bad about myself. Right.

And then, you know, she does the self-care move of not doing it. But then she's like, oh, I should have had fun with this thing. Yeah. You know what movies don't depict? Here's the specificity of it. It's not that, oh, if she goes there, they're going to pick on her and she'll feel bad. It's just like, this vibe is going to make her feel shitty. She's just like, oh, I'm just going to have to like perform for these people.

I'm just not into it. And then she does the face flop, which is one of the best moments in cinema I think ever. Just like this very, and I love the lead up to it because I had

kind of forgotten. I've seen it so much as a gif now that I just like, in my head, she just goes to her room and flops down, but there's such a lead up.

The walk to her bed is so slow. She's so sad. He's so good at depicting like a hard day. He walk to her bed is so slow. She's so sad. He's so good at depicting a hard day. He lets it sit, right? It's like 30 seconds of her looking around being like don't feel good. Nothing fucked up happened to her.

She's just like, you know what? I'm out. I'm out of energy. I was drained. You know what's hard? Being alive. For everybody. All the time. And then when she's sick too, you get how fucking sick you know what's hard being alive yeah exactly for everybody that's exactly it all the time god and then when she's sick too like he's

you get how fucking sick she is yeah she's not gonna die she just feels like garbage yeah that part where like the cat's like what about food

and she's just like there it is go have some just points isn't that the last time that they like talk I think it is I think it might be

because that's really sad yeah I remember that is the thing that fucked me up the most when I first watched this and I was younger but like it still is so much when like at the end she gets her confidence back she learns how to fly again but she still can't talk to the cat

and there's kind of this moment where she like gives him a little hug and she's like all right this is our dynamic now and it is a little bit like she figured out some stuff but she is growing up anyway and I know but it's just like it's that sort of thing as well like when you read those books about kids who have some kind of power and then like you know like it happens in his dark materials where she loses the ability to read the alethiometer and i'm like when i was a kid i was like that is fucking crushing she could

read this compass thing that told her like the truth of all like you know now it's like well you know what you hit puberty so you got a boyfriend but you lost a magic power it's kind of like the first time you like try and play a game that was really fun when you were a kid and now you're just like no it's not doing it for me anymore and it's so sad oh god damn it oh are you gonna oh no no I'm gonna get you

but like uh like you know I was just on vacation and my friends came up for the weekend and they brought their two year old and like he's still in that phase where you blow some bubbles. He's going to lose it. That's it. God damn. That is all he needs.

So you get older and the world gets less magical. Like there's that thing when you're a kid. Really? That's the thing. I did genuinely used to believe. I'm like, I know everyone tells me that toys don't come to life. But what if? What if?

On the other hand, they do, though. You have parents all the time telling you dragons are not real. And you're like, I get it, I get it, I get it. But my dad doesn't know everything. You haven't seen them. My dad can't remember where he parked the car. They might be dragons. That's why Imagine Dragons are single-handedly keeping the magic alive.

That's true. They're yelling at us. They're going, please. The thunder! And the lightning! Isn't that your favorite song? The thunder! Lightning!

I want Val Longo sings Imagine Dragons as an album. I want that like karaoke album. Two-time Academy Award winner. Val Longo's like Christmas album.

Hey, you got this thunder! Lightning! Thunder! And the lightning! Marron is lightning! Oh my god! It's a pizza pie! Thunder. Lightning. And a lightning. Marron is lightning. Oh, my God. It's a pizza pie.

He's never that crazy. He'd be like, hey, what are you? What are you, a fucking racist? I never said, it's a pizza pie. I'm a fucking grown man. I parked my car by the fire hydrant and put a bucket over it like everybody else. Does he do that? Maybe Green Book

should have won Best Picture. Yeah, one day I'm going to have some fucking kid who's going to write a story about me and win two Oscars? Two?

Kubrick has won. And it was for visual effects. He got the one for 2001. That's Kubrick's only Oscar. Yeah. That was a pretty good impression, right? That was Galanga turning into an Oscar nerd.

Okay, another thing that Dave and I were talking about, what I'm really loving about Miyazaki movies is just watching them make, the characters make a cup of coffee

or go grocery shopping. Yeah, Sven was talking about this. He's totally right. And there's just something about how it's like teaching you how to live and like depicting normal activities, but showing the ritual of it and how special it could be.

This is how it is to be a human. It's so nice and quiet. And I love this movie. You really love this one. Is this your fave so far? You did like how big Totoro was. I did like Totoro. And Ponyo loved Ham.

I mean, almost every movie we've watched, Ben has later texted us to be like, I love Ponyo. Totoro's so big. Whatever, right? Yeah, I like Kiki the best. I think what's gonna happen...

Oh, Kiki number one! But I'm gonna keep just liking them. I'll have to get to the end and really have a... But you know what? I mean, this is the last whimsy for a while

because like, Mononoke spirited away how those are weirder those are more like emotionally like kind of dense and like dark whimsical but we've already recorded that one ponio is obviously right like super shot at whimsy but that's we've done that and then the wind rises is miyazaki being like was i a bad father? Did Japan ruin itself by going to war? You know, you're like, whoa, whoa. Hi-ho, Jesus. Come on, let's do a Caterpillar movie.

What the fuck? That movie's going to destroy me. That movie's fantastic. I love that movie. This one's really just like the everyday, like you were saying, very like everyday little experiences. I mean, I mentioned the houses before,

but I just love all the backgrounds of it. Like, all the detail. Like, everything in that grocery aisle that she touched is so good and specific. All the little rice cookers. And, I mean, obviously, Gigi pointing out the mug with himself on it is the cutest. And then you see it later because she buys it. But, I don't know. There were so many kitchens in this movie I wanted.

Great kitchens. You know what? Talk about a Nancy Meyers kitchen. The, like, grandmother's kitchen with the copper pots. Great kitchens. You know what? Talk about a Nancy Meyers kitchen. The grandmother's kitchen with the copper pots. The copper pots. But I love that thing where the grandma's like,

you know what? I do like the old wood burning oven. I don't like this electric thing. Yeah, let's fucking open it up. You know what I mean? That kind of like, yeah. The practicality of that background.

You'd think it was just a little detail. In her rustic house. Yeah. I love Ursula's house, obviously. Ursula is cool. Ursula rules. I've got a crush on her. rustic house. Yeah. I love Ursula's house, obviously. Ursula is cool. Ursula rules. I've got a crush on her.

I've noticed. I mean, hard same. I picked up on the subtext, folks. Oh, David's doing the finger. You said I couldn't work in. I said he couldn't work in. But you forgot about Ursula and her cool painting

with a unicorn. Oh, and I mean, the style of that painting is so beautiful. I know, it's wild, though. It doesn't look like the movie at all. It doesn't look like the movie. It's so different, and I feel like it's so hard.

I feel like this in every movie, TV show, whatever. It is so hard to show someone being good at something because you build something up so hard, and then you hear Carrie Bradshaw's columns, and you're like, this sucks. You get paid how much for this bullshit? Isn't it the worst feeling in a movie when like someone has some sort of like craft like that? It's usually writing because we're narcissists.

Right. But even when it's like music or it's like other performing or they're doing this and you watch it and you can't figure out whether the movie wants you to think they're good or not. Yeah. Like you're like, is this supposed to be the scene is like they're boffing it or like. I think that's one of those things that made Mad Men immediately good because like they build up John Draper so much as being good at his job

and then you see and you're like, oh, you're really fucking good at your job. Right. He's really like. I know. And that's hard. That is so hard. God, this guy's amazing.

You're like, how good is he? Yeah. He's like, I have an idea for cigarettes and you're like, fuck, I want a cigarette. You smoke a whole pack of light a pack of cigarettes. Give me a fucking lucky strike right now.

Yeah. Can't wait to be addicted. I don't think about you at all he's in Top Gun I know I forgot about that when I saw like Ham just across the screen I was like shit

I was too busy looking for Glenn Powell Kanye wants to see Top Gun yeah that's such a crazy good performance Mad Men? yeah yeah

I was thinking because the Emmy nominations were being announced and they were actually like pretty good and they nominated a lot of shows that I watched and liked.

So annoyed. I wanted to write like annoyed columns. Which was sort of surprising because usually I expected it to be like comedy series. We only nominated The Kaminsky Method.

That was it. What else would we nominate? You know, but instead they actually were like pretty rational. Best fight choreography in a comedy series. The nominees were great.

Those were especially. Really good. But I feel like I was, like the last time I was truly invested in an Emmy win was But I feel like the last time I was truly invested in an Emmy win was when Ham won for the last season

of Mad Men and you were like there's no way he's winning and he won and you were like oh my god I feel like delighted for him. It felt like they were

going to do the corral thing again. Right. And the winner is somehow James Spader even though he wasn't on anything this year. We're just going to

bring him up. It's like knowing how much Ham kind of killed himself for that part. That part fucked him up. Not just like, knowing how much Ham kind of killed himself for that part. Like, that part fucked him up. Yeah,

yeah. I don't think he's ever fully coming back. No. No. I don't think we should always reward that, but like,

he deserves something. It's like Cate Blanchard playing Blanche. Right, right. It's that phenomenon we talk about where sometimes people

merge a little too much with the character. Yeah, yeah, totally. You know, my friend, Alex Perlin,

shout out, we used to always talk about that phenomenon as the Bradley Cooper effect. Sure. Because of his run of playing jerky guys in comedies. And we were like, he's never going to get out of this. He spent too many years playing the jerky best friend or the boyfriend of the love interest. And now I just kind of think he's a douche. And it's unbelievable how you now can't reconcile that. Yeah, when you see him as the jerk, you're like, oh, right, he used to do this.

That's so weird that he used to do that. This used to be his vibe. Like, when you watch The Hangover now, you're like, who's that playing? I recognize Justin Barth, of course. Right, or Wedding Crashers. Because Hangover's the weird bridge there where it's like, he's still doing that, but at least it's as the leading man. Yeah. And then it's like, well, now what's his leading man career going to be?

He can only play like... Right. Hey. Hey. Hey. All you gotta do is trust me. That's all you gotta do. All right.

I'll fucking trust you. So glad we got Jackson Maynard. Merging together. We got it. I mean, Jackson's a musician. I got to. Right? And Jackson could like crush some oxycodone in the back of the car.

He could and he did. What's the line about the line? The line about the line? I call that boot dust. Boot dust? Yeah. Because the trunk's the boot? There's the line you love where he says like.

We're having two different conversations right now. That's fine. That's over the fucking line or something. It's over a fucking line. They're talking about Starz because of course they are of course yes we're talking about boot dust

because we're Jersey trash what thank you that's over the fucking line oh my god I was gonna make a Jersey reference earlier and I totally lost it here it comes

are you ready yeah you got it yeah yeah great the opening the credits the opening credits

where she's like soaring over you know everything and then she soars over like the factories and it's like sooty and she has to like cough or whatever it reminds me so much of this

here it comes Steven Universe episode where he does where they're like flying over all the cities and the towns and everything I feel like it has to be a little bit related

I mean I'm sure it is these movies are so influential for animators and they make a very rude Jersey joke where they like go over this like very sooty factory thing and he's like what's that

and she's like ah don't worry about it it's just Jersey and I was like what's that? And she's like don't worry about it it's just Jersey and I was like what? You have jerseys in Steven Universe and they hate it?

What if Kiki went to Jersey? They'd like bake her into a fucking sausage or something. They would be nice to her. They'd be nice to her and be like hey you're alright.

She's the salt of the earth. They'd give her a meat sack. Yeah. Deliver this meat sack. Kiki could just go to a lot of movies and be kind of helpful. They'd treat her like one of their own

Horribly They give her the same lack of respect They give their native children You have more tail on your fucking finger His fucking finger We have to disrespect ourselves first Before other people can do it It's kind of the Jersey way

We wear that chip on our shoulder People from New Jersey have a chip on their shoulder for Proud Burr. Oh, people from New Jersey have a chip on their shoulder? Shut up, David. You don't know. Anyway, I mean, there was a moment in Newcastle. This is a long time ago.

I went to college in Newcastle. What? Which is in the north of England. Yes. What? What? You went to college? I went to a university.

Hold on. What? I have a bachelor's degree. What? In what, David? English literature. What? Oh have a bachelor's degree. What? In what, David? English literature. What? Oh my God, you can read?

First time hearing of this. Damn. For a reason I made it a movie podcast. We've been talking books for all these years. If I knew you could read. What else do we want to say about Kiki's delivery service? I mean, speaking of digital fur technology. Digital fur technology.

Gigi's fur is great. I love Gigi's fur. I think we're done with Kiki. I think we nailed it. Do we want to talk about the flying, the final vehicle? I mean, I think that's great. I think it's fun that she has a moment of sort of triumph that's not too ludicrous. Like, she's helpful.

She catches the boy. But it's not like, she doesn't do anything insane. Sure. You know, she's just gotta catch him because he's dangling from the airship. So that might be a small factor. That one was like,

kind of surprising to me. I don't know, because everything else felt like so small and low stakes and like every day that like the sudden sort of catastrophic blimp event, I was a little like,

I don't know if I need it. It is funny that there's a blimp there, but it is a Miyazaki movie and he's just like, yeah, sudden sort of catastrophic blimp event I was a little like I don't know if I need it it is funny that there's a blimp there but it is a Miyazaki movie and he's just like yeah oh we didn't talk about Jeff Jeff? Jeff the dog

oh Jeff the dog oh right wow no one cares about Jeff I know you know what I do love this run I mean I like how hijinx-y this is

well just like Gigi's profusely sweating is so good and I like the shadows of Jeff. That's a July anxiety mood, I feel like. They keep on setting it up

as like the shadow creeping over. Yeah, and it's just a nice boy. And the music's really like, I'm getting into trouble. When Disney released

this, a conservative Christian group called Concerned Women for America boycotted it because of the witchcraft. I mean, and this is the same time that

Sabrina is busting up the ratings every Friday night. I can't imagine. I have seen every episode of the first two or three seasons of that show. Oh, I watched it every day after school. The other ones, the later seasons I've seen, but it was that early,

the high school episodes. Can we talk about Clarissa Explains It All? Ferguson is a little stinker. That's true. Okay, but Sam with the ladder. Hey, Sam. I aspire to be Sam. Sam rules.

Sam's cool. Okay, I'm going to break rules, but I got to do it now. I don't mean to interrupt Ben Explains Clarissa Explains It All. But if I can say something. Okay. At the summer camp I went to.

Sam, was he the Sam there? Ferguson was a counselor. A counselor? Was he a stinker? Was he cool? No, he was a cool guy. He was a theater director. Would people do that to him?

Yeah, he... I'll say he wore pretty well. And the other thing is like I feel like I was there as the generation that was most like oh my god I can't believe like Ferguson is a counselor and then like five years later no

kids knew who he was you know like there was the window where it was like and I assume he got older and he just didn't look like Ferguson as much anymore but when I got there I like couldn't get over it like it was like probably five years after the show had gone off the air

and I had watched it when I was like seven he's bald now yes I mean time time catches up to us all it does yes

but he directed a killer production of Man of La Mancha hey the impossible dream yeah Kiki tries to live it out does she succeed

probably I think so I think yeah I forgot about this other part that I really love with Ursula besides just like her painting and her being the best.

When she sings about the poor unfortunate souls? I mean, that's a great part. It's just funny that these two movies came out the same year and they both have an Ursula. Extremely different Ursulas.

Yes. But I love the part, I mean, her pep talk to Kiki I feel like goes so well with like that post-credits, the post-credits scene of the letter where she's like she talks about and this is such a real thing. If you're like into any sort of like art or whatever, is that she was like, I was just imitating other painters before and not well. And now she's not.

And it's and I love that she was like, and it's not she didn't say it was easier. She was like, it's harder, but it's more rewarding. I was like, oh, that is such a good lesson. I mean, that is a hard lesson to learn, but it's so important. And for her to tell Kiki just like, you can't do what everyone's doing. You got to do your own thing. It's going to be hard, though. Ben is quenching his jaw so tightly.

Trying to. I'm holding it in. Hold on to eye dryness. I like that idea of just like, you imitate the cool things that you've seen. And she was like, I had to stop doing that because it wasn't actually good or helpful. Also, when you go through this world on your own, you learn by example and you learn from kind people that are also going to like teach you these lessons. And they're so important because especially when you're away from your parents, it's really scary because those are the people that usually have the answers. And now you have to figure it out. But also you try to replicate things based on

end result rather than having understanding of the process that leads to that result. Like she's just like, oh, I want to have a delivery service that's going to be successful. And then she's like, oh, it's work. Right, right. And that the people who are the most successful get there through a series of trial and errors, not through going like, this is my target, you know? And to surround yourself with supportive people. Like, one of the things I love about the bakery owner, and I feel like a lot of adults in the Miyazaki I've seen, they find the kids so funny.

Yeah. Like, she's like, you're great and industrious and I believe in you, but also like, you're ridiculous. This is so funny. She just always is bursting out laughing. It's so cute. David, here's bursting out laughing. It's so cute. David, here's a crazy question. It might be a swing and a miss.

Okay. Do you think it'd be possible to pull up the VHS sales chart from when this came out? I have no idea how you sort of find that, but I can Google. I would Google exactly that. Kiki's Delivery Service VHS sales chart. I know people used to publish that shit.

Yeah, Lee's Movie Info. Wikipedia just cites a lot of sales numbers. Do you remember when the year was? I know people used to publish that shit. Yeah, Lee's Movie Info. Wikipedia just cites a lot of sales numbers. Do you remember when the year was? I can get it. It was 98. 98. But they mention how well... Let me see. This website hasn't been updated since 98. Yeah, that is for sure. It was released to VHS September

15th, 1998. Well, let's just plug Kiki in here and... Plug it in. Plug it in. Plug it in. Okay, one other thing I wanted to mention is the play-by-play news broadcaster. Oh, yes, when the blimp's going down. Yeah, very funny.

Like, kind of unnecessary, but it's just like a great... This is the most amazing thing I've ever seen! I've never seen anything like it! He's like a Speed Racer announcer. Oh my god, Speed's doing it! He is defeating Racer X! The grandmother's, like, friend, butler person. Like, she's, Racer X the grandmother's like friend butler

person like she's like banging the TV being like oh it always craps out the most exciting part like in her head she's just like oh this is like this fun TV show we're watching the bizarre she just wants to see a little bit of drama yeah who doesn't the bizarre website I found did not

have Kiki's info though it did have some VHS sales info. But we can look up the Japanese total from... Okay, yeah. Oh, this is a re-release. Interesting. Has it been released in China yet? Can we play that game?

Yeah, let's check. These are tough. We're having a tough round of box office games here. I mean, my solution was that we were going to do the box office game for a delivery man. Oh, my God. I mean, look, I'm not against that. He is a delivery man after. I mean, my solution was that we were going to do the box office game for a delivery man. Oh, my God. I mean, look, I'm not against that. He is a delivery man, after all.

Yes, yes. The thing he's delivering now... His delivery service was? It ain't mackerel pie. Yeah. Or I was going to say we could try to guess the top five Kirsten Dunst movies,

but I feel like three of those are such gimmies that I don't know how much fun that is. That's a fair question, though. What are the other... These are an interesting few years for her too. Yeah, but what are the other two? Do you have it?

Give me one second and I'll have it. Kirsten Dunst Kiki to her friends. Uh-huh. Mrs. Dunst to her enemies. So it would be Spider-Man 1, Spider-Man 2, Spider-Man 3. Mrs. Plemons. In that order. In that order.

Can you give me the domestic totals for those three movies? First one's 403. Bingo. Wow. The second one is 364. 373. Okay. And the third one is like 335?

336. Damn. Woo! Those are big movies for me. Those are big. But however, what is number four? 336. Damn. Woo! Those are big movies for me. Those are big. But however, what is number four? An idea.

It's a film that made 169 million dollars. So she's not the lead in it, right? No, she's not. In fact, I forgot she was in this one. Wait. Sure. Okay.

Yeah, I think I know what it is. Is it Jumanji? Nope. That's her number six. Hidden figures. Wow. Jumanji is number six. Oh, that? Nope. That's her number six. Hidden figures. Wow. Jumanji is number six. Jumanji should be number one.

Yeah. Should be number one. Whoa. Carol, I haven't spoken. It is a prequel to the most successful movie of all time. That's right. Can we talk about the new Jumanji trailer for a second? Yeah, sure.

It's the next level. I don't understand what the hook of that movie is. They're going to play a different one this time. No, not really, because the hook is I thought they would just do that. They go, we shake the bag up. It's the same four kids, but now they've each swapped roles. So here's what I'm going to try and recount it because I only saw this show the other once. Can I give it a shot?

Yeah. Okay, so the girl who was Karen Gillan? Yeah. Same vibe. It's 100% has not changed at all. She's just Karen Gillan again. Right. Okay. Karen Gillan, same person inside her. Right. Alright. Kevin Hart. This time the football player is Kevin Hart? No. No, this time-

Last time the football player was Kevin Hart, like the big athlete guy was Kevin Hart. This time he's Jack Black. This time he's Jack- Oh, is that true? Yes. Yep. Take it easy, Jack. Agreed?

Take it easy, Jack. And I'll tell you you he's making choices I know cause Jack Black was like you love the stereotypical things I did when I was a girl in the last one somehow you played it

with a degree of nuance yeah that we all and he's like here we go and it's like well Jack no no

Jack I laid it on pretty thick last time you did right that's true and it was good yes people liked it I laid it on pretty thick last time. You did. Right. That's true. And it was good?

Yes. People liked it. I can't deny that people liked it. Don't necessarily take lessons from that. And this time the black guy is me? He is. We didn't think about this, but yeah. He is. Therefore, where's he gone?

He's gone. He runs into the jungle. All right. Okay, so those are those two. The clean pitch is, therefore where's he gone he's gone he's like runs into the jungle alright okay so that's those are those two the clean pitch is it's a Yankee swap all four of them are swapped no no

Karen Gillan is fixed Karen Gillan is the same okay the football player is now Jack Black okay one of the kids or two of them

have gone missing within the game two of them are lost in digital feedback one of them went lost before them the other one went lost before them. The other one went in with them at the same time and also got lost

somewhere. Have you seen this trailer? No. I hope this is all very helpful. Nick Jonas is still in it even though Colin Hanks got out of it. Maybe one of them is in Nick Jonas now. Who knows? I didn't want to denigrate my original Jumanji experience.

That's the pure pure cut Jumanji. Danny DeVito and Danny Glover as grandpas who happen to be upstairs because apparently the rule now is that the video game captures anyone

within a radius. It's not just who's holding the controllers. It's the base property lines, Griffin! But now, The Rock is doing his DeVito impression, and Kevin Hart is Glover. Yep.

And Hart's really doing Glover. Hart's doing a good job, it looks like. And The Rock's doing his thing. He's doing New York hot dog vendor. Yeah. Like, hey, come on here! Yeah.

So it's two new characters playing the two biggest stars. Right. One person playing the exact same character she played last time. Yes. And then the worst combination

of actor and character possible from the original. Now, here's my take. Yeah. Holly was having a transitional difficult year. Right? Some things are hitting still

like the Marvels and the Disneys. Yeah. A lot of things are missing. Okay? Right? And we're not sure what's going to happen next. Jumanji was this insane. The highest grossing film in the history of science. Some sequels are being made that the audiences

are obviously just responding with like we didn't need a sequel to that. Now this sequel has been made. It has a confusing premise. God knows what's going on. I think the history, like the future of Hollywood, everything rests on Jumanji the next level. I think if it hits, then Hollywood can be like,

okay, all right, all right. Something still makes sense. The last movie was a hit. This is a hit. Thank God. If it doesn't hit, I think Hollywood's going to be like, you know what? That's it.

Close up shot. None of it makes sense. Right. I kind of agree with you. That's true. We do have cats. Both come out on Christmas? Yes, both come out on Christmas. It's like some witch's curse. They are cats.

They sing. That's true. I think cats is going to do really well. Of course. 100%. It's going to have morbid curiosity. Morbid curiosity. The other people who like cats. Horny motherfuckers who've been taking trips to see cats. I feel like this is extremely disrespectful to cats.

No, it's not. You cannot disrespect that. No, no, no. I mean to the animal. Oh, I guess so. Because again, also, they're not sized right. You'll talk about it. It's fine.

But they're the size of mice. The size that they are is inscrutable. They made this big furniture. They make a big to-do about this furniture. They didn't make shit. It's all fucking computers. It's also, it's family- They showed it to us in a feature ad. They made this big furniture. They make a big to-do about this furniture. They didn't make shit. It's all fucking computer. It's also, it's family-

They showed it to us as a feature. It's like small soldiers. It's a little like small soldiers. It's like kind of that. And, you know, I think so much of this pushback to the cat trailer

is misogynistic because all cats are girls and all dogs are boys. I mean, the cats do have boobs. They do. Or baps. They do have boobs. They got their baps out?

They got their baps out. It's one of the many choices in that trailer that alarmed me, I would say. What else was it? I don't know. The fact that... Oh, well, we'll say this on the Lion King episode, but the fact that Jennifer Hudson looks like Salazar from Pirates of the Caribbean, where her face is like half completed.

Or Drake during the Sprite commercial. My favorite Paul. Where they were just like, can you fit her face on that cat thing? And they were like, not really. And they were like, well, it looks fine. I don't know. What, are they going to cite us for realism?

It's not like anything else in this makes sense. Okay, number five, Kirsten Dunst movie. Give me it. So it's not Jumanji. Nope. And Jumanji did like 100. Jumanji is her other 100 million. She has six thatji. Nope. And Jumanji did like a hundred. Jumanji is her other hundred minute.

She has six that made over a hundred and Jumanji is the sixth but there's also a fifth. Is she above the title on this? No. She's not.

Don't think so. How deep in the cast is she? I would say fifth. She is probably the best performance in it though. Maybe second best.

Oh, Interview with a Vampire. She's so good in that. She's so. That was the performance where people were like this has to be a major star. I've never seen that movie. It was sort of the Haley Joel Osment thing where it's like, for her to have this kind of poise at age 10, like she must be a fucking talent.

She's terrifying in it. She's terrifying. Yeah, with. Christian Slater. Stephen Ray. I love Stephen Ray. Because she's supposed to be like, she's just locked in that body forever.

There's a tweet I think about like, every week from Lindsay Barr, AP film critic Lindsay Barr. Of course. From like 2016, I think, where she was like, when is Kirsten Dunst gonna get like, the cult icon like status she,

that like Winona Ryder has? Like the same kind of thing. I feel like she is like, about there now. She's inching there. I mean, marrying Jesse Plemons, I feel like a lot of about there now. She's inching there I mean marrying Jesse Plemons I feel like a lot of people enjoy that sort of like you know her The only extremely blonde family I trust

That's a blonde family That's a blonde-esque family Also here's the difference I think between Winona and Kiki Winona is obviously one generation prior This is I think the big shift of this generation I think Kiki's doing great work now.

She's kind of at the best she's ever been, just in terms of pure crap. That new show she has coming out looks like a ton of fucking fun to me. Becoming a God in Central Florida. Yeah, I'll watch anything she's doing. She wears braces. Yeah, into it, right? I think she's like the first person to sort of, movie star to sort of fall victim to franchise culture. Yeah. Yeah. Because Winona had

more Winona movies. Yes. I think that's why she has that status because she was so much this like avatar for people and there was like a grouping of them. Right. Kiki has one definitive Kiki Dunst movie. Bring it on. Like that's the movie that was like a hit that she is the face of

that everybody saw. Right. You know, obviously she has like Crazy Beautiful or whatever, like her weirder, less popular. But like those were, you know, those were more. The post Spider-Man pre sort of comeback movies are rough. Like everything between like the Spider-Man's and Melancholia is like. When was Eternal Sunshine? Wimbledon.

Eternal Sunshine is the one outlier, which she's great at. She's amazing. That's a hard part. And she's so good at it. she's great at she's amazing that's a hard part and she's so good at it same thing with Bring It On that's a hard part I feel like it's like on the level of like

I haven't seen Bring It On in a long time but she's great it mostly holds up and I feel like she does what kind of like Reese Witherspoon does in Legally Blonde

where like that part could have been like I totally agree with that it could have been fine and both of them like show so much intelligence in it and that's like souffle work

that like no one gives credit to because it's like really light and it. And that's like souffle work that no one gives credit to because it's really light and it's tasty, but it's... Souffle work. Souffle work. That's a good term, right? I love that. It's difficult to fucking make.

Here's her post-Eternal Sunshine Spider-Man 2 career. Wimbledon comes out the same year as Spider-Man 2. Wimbledon. I'm sorry. Wimbledon. Fucking American. Elizabeth Towne. Oh, geez.

Mary Antoinette. She's good in that. And obviously, that's a good choice. Spider-Man 3. Okay, she's doing great. How to Lose Friends and Alienate People. Okay, why'd you do that? Two-year break. Alienated people, would you say? What's going on with Kiki Duff? Yeah. All good things, which was that, like, Robert Durst

movie. Wasn't that also, like, long-delayed? Like, it came out a long time after they shot it right we do not talk enough about the fact that Ryan played Robert Durst what yeah man yeah and that was Jarecki's film that's why he knew Durst that's why he like had an in with

Durst and then Durst was like the inciting incident for the jinx is Robert Durst calling up Jarecki and going like I saw that movie then melancholia and it's like oh Exciting incident for the Jinx is Robert Durst calling up Drake and going, I saw that movie. Then melancholia. And it's like, oh, she's back.

Where had she been? Yeah. And it's like, oh, she's been having a tough time. Yeah. What's going on? Rehab, you know. Yeah, she was drinking a lot. Oh, damn. And then since then, yeah, she's just sort of been like in and out.

Like, you know what I mean? She's a very good bachelorette. She's great in Fargo. She's very good in Bachelorette. She's great in Fargo. She pops up in things like Midnight Special and Hidden Figures. Oh, I thought she was very good in Midnight Special. And you're like, oh, here's Kirsten Dunst. She's good. And then The Beguiled was, I feel like, the first time it's lead performance from Kirsten Dunst.

Kind of. Again, yeah. You know, Hidden Figures, I think she doesn't get enough credit for playing that role with zero interest in being redeemable. Yeah. I just, there's always... Without being mustache twirly. I'm like, this is like...

That movie is fun. That movie is very charming. Yeah. But it is that character. I mean, I always joke about in Belle, that's the Belle trailer. Yeah. The Tom Felton character where it's like, some people are like, well, I don't know. And some people are like, I don't know and some people are like

well I like her and one guy's like well I'm a racist and I think it's bad because of racism and it's like oh he's the racist that's

he represents racism that character is not written well no but I think she just as an actor what's given her she avoids both

doing mustache twirling yeah and she avoids trying to like because Kevin Costner is very good in that movie but he famously came in and was like I think you should believe in her. I think you should be nice and not do anything bad.

And you should tear that sign down. And there should be more like ostensibly nice white ladies who are just like awful racist. That's just the reality of things. She's not protective of her movie star image at all in that movie because it would have been easier for her to try to make her redeemable or to make her more villainous where it's like I'm nothing like this woman. I definitely think she doesn't care about her movie star image at all in that movie because it would have been easier for her to try to make her redeemable or to make her more villainous where it's like,

I'm nothing like this woman. I definitely think she doesn't care about her movie star image anymore. Yeah, which is cool. That's not a consideration. All right. Bring it on into number seven. Give me her last three.

Small Soldiers? Small Soldiers is nine. I can't believe Small Soldiers didn't make 100. No, it made 54, baby. I know. Did it make 100 worldwide? Let's find out.

I think it probably ended up with 86. It doesn't even have a worldwide total listed. Okay. Okay, so Small Soldiers is number? Let's find out. I think it probably ended up at 86. It doesn't even have a worldwide total listed. Okay, so Small Soldiers number 9. Small Soldiers. 8 and the 10. Big movie. Middling box office. Okay. Big action.

Small Soldiers. The other two, are they lead performances or are they ensembles? One's an ensemble. The other is an ensemble. They're both ensembles. Yes. And from what eras?

From what decades? One's from 2003 and one's from 1994. 1994. So one's like teen kiki and one is like 20-something kiki. Well, go on. No, no, no. Go on. No, teen kiki.

Do you think you got the teen or the 03? I feel like maybe the teen. Shoot. Is it Little Women? That's right. Little Women. Go on. No, Teen King. Do you think you got the teen or the 03? I feel like maybe the teen. Shoot. Is it Little Women? That's right. Little Women. Good call. Good call.

Good call. She's young enough that she plays young Amy and pretty much everyone else plays themselves as the older ones, but she's not. They get an older Amy because she's too young and it would have been weird with Christian Bale. It would have been bad. Yeah. Yeah.

No, that's a good call. She's really good in that too. And Amy sucks. That's an actress I like a lot who I kind of miss. Who? Christian Bale? Trini Alvarado. Oh, sure. I like her a lot.

Just any time you watch a 90s movie and you're like, what happened to this actress who was in eight big movies and then turned 30 and they never hired ever again? She showed up on one episode of Pride of Practice or whatever. Okay, wait. So the other one's from 03. Yep. Mona Lisa Smile? Bingo. Whoa. Okay, wait. So the other one's from 03. Yep. Mona Lisa Smile?

Bingo. There you go. That was like, do you remember when they were like, this thing can't miss? You got Dunst. You got Gyllenhaal. Julia Roberts.

Museum tours. Yeah. Mike Newell. This thing's gonna make, oh, $141 million actually. Really? Quite a lot. I just feel like

Nostalgia. They were like she's got this girl group and it's the next four biggest stars. Dunst. Goodwin. Yeah.

Who else is in it? Gyllenhaal, right? Yeah. And who's the fourth one? Paz de la Huerta? No, I don't know. I feel like it was Julia Stiles.

Julia Stiles. Yeah, it was like these are the four like kind of I mean I feel like Gyllenhaal, Dunst, and Stiles were in similar positions at that point

where it's like they've had hits on their own they've had like critical acclaim. Teen stuff. Yeah. Like, these are the four, like, kind of... I mean, I feel like Gyllenhaal, Dunst, and Stiles were in similar positions at that point, where it's like they've had hits on their own, they've had, like, critical acclaim. Teen stuff. Yeah. Let's not forget that Dominic West is in that movie. Wow. Topher Grace.

Yeah. Tori Amos. Let's not forget that Mona Lisa smiled. She smells like this, like... David's doing a really good impression. It's like a raised eyebrow situation. This is your best impression, David. Leave it to the listener to imagine it. Can I take a photo?

Or do you want to not have it leaked out? Yeah, no, no. The mystery might be fun to preserve. I don't think the... Try doing it and I'll decide whether or not to release it. But you got to make eye contact with me because that's the... David's doing his impression of the Mona Lisa. Ben left for five minutes for Mona Lisa smiling.

Anyway, yeah, we're done. Okay, good. Frankie, anything else you want to talk about? Any other business you brought to the table today? Look, man, I don't know. I got nothing. It's a classic summer Friday. Kiki's just a nice...

Kiki rules. A nice, fun movie about a nice girl making the most of things. Make Ben cry a lot. You're ready to ankle this skein. Yeah, you're ready to ankle this one. Ready to what?

Variety talk. Variety. Ankle skeins. Oh, I don't know trade shows. I'm a bad trade writer. I'm like, does Variety have a term

for podcast? I guess you won't be ankleing any skeins right now. Yeah, I don't know. Knob. Knob. Yeah.

Button. Yeah, we're done you definitely just looked at equipment to come up with knobbers yeah table signed up for a knob a new 12 episode knobber wall microphone

just like thanks for having me this was nice it's nice to come on about a nice movie after the last time. It's like a nice, awesome movie about a nice girl. God, that movie makes me so uncomfortable. Showgirls? I'm just like thinking about it again.

There are few movies I like that I hate watching that much. You know? And I feel like there's always some revisiting of, oh, did it have some merit? Whatever. I'm like, yeah, that's so... How do you write a dance? How do you write a dance? I don't get it.

I asked Chip Smith. Yeah. Chip Smith. Remember he was on the... That was his origin, the Sugar Girl episode. Have you been talking with him? Are you going to ask him? I had a weird dream about him, but that was it.

Weird. I don't know. He was just sitting in a chair that was on fire. Where did you get the Miyazaki book? I don't know. Turned over my doorstep. Because I've noticed that sometimes it breathes. Thank you all for listening.

Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Andrew for our social media. Joe Bunn and Pat Reynolds for artwork Lane Montgomery for a theme song go to blankiesiread.com for some real nerdy shit Tee Public for some real nerdy shirts go to Patreon where we're only

15 movies away from finishing the Marvel Cinematic Universe Caroline do you have anything to plug? read all your work on Variety find me on Twitter at Caroline Framke I tweet a lot of stupid shit I'm rewatching Lost

for the first time for the first time the first rewatch no actually the first watch I've never seen it so come find me she's a dumbass

how are you enjoying it you know what more than I thought I would yeah I hate Jack so much really how far into it are you 14 episodes baby

okay amazing how little I know about Lost. Who's your favorite character? Hurley. Vincent. Vincent the dog. Very concerned for Vincent. Oh, he'll be fine.

Yeah. But anyway, come talk to me about Vincent the dog. That's about all I got. Well, so what? This episode's dropping October? No, not that late. October? When's this episode dropping?

Let me check the spreadsheet. I'm just wondering if by the time this episode drops. September 8th. If by the time this episode drops, Caroline will have met Nikki and Paolo. Oh. This might be a great time to follow Frankie and get those Nikki and Paolo takes. Has anyone prepared for Nikki and Paolo? I have no idea what you're talking about.

Get ready. Follow Frankie. Follow Frankie. One of the wildest things that ever happened. I'm the best TV critic I know what you're talking about. Get ready. Follow Framke. Follow Framke. One of the wildest things that ever happened. I'm the best TV critic I know all about TV. Yep.

Get ready. All right. End. End as always. You'll get sad eventually.