Blank Check with Griffin & David - Last Action Hero with Paul Scheer & Jason Mantzoukas

Episode Date: March 24, 2024

You either love this movie or you hate it, and guess what - we’re landing all over the LOST ACTION HERO spectrum this episode! Paul Scheer & Jason Mantzoukas join us once again for a clock-busting, rip-roaring time, and we’re unpacking all of this movie’s meta madness.  Is John McTiernan able to parody his own work? Should the kid have actually killed people in this movie (as in the original, edgier script)? Will David have an aneurysm if this episode recording doesn’t end at a reasonable time? Pre-order Paul’s Book And if anyone has what Jason is looking for, email [e-mail] and well get it to him.  This episode is sponsored by: MUBI (mubi.com/blankcheck) FACTOR (Factormeals.com/check50) Zocdoc (zocdoc.com/check)  Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram!

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack Put a sock in it. I don't care who does what to your heresy highway. And stop shouting. I'm not deaf. You know why you're shouting? Because it's in the script. You're the comic relief.

Yes. And you know what else? I am the podcast. So shut up. It somehow is getting worse every week. Do we want to do that again? No. I think you have the yips,

but for Arnold Schwarzenegger only. You're like over, you know, preparing or something. Yeah, you're like, you're trying too hard. Put a sock in it. What is that? I don't know, you do it. Put a sock in it. I don't know, I'm like, I'm just doing like a basic.

Put a sock in it. Put a sock in it. Put a sock in it. This is wild. This was uncomfortable to watch you try and in it. Put a sock in it. Put a sock in it. Put a sock in it. This is wild. This was uncomfortable to watch you try and do a grip. It's my worst impression. And I don't think of myself as being good at impressions, but it's also one that almost everyone

can do some version of. It felt to me like that was a version, like a foreign version of someone who had watched an Arnold Schwarzenegger impression, a bad Arnold Schwarzenegger impression. So that it was like, okay, so this is a person that maybe is in, you know, Bulgaria, who saw a TikTok of a bad impression. It's two degrees wet.

Then they did it, yeah. Right. It's a decent impression of a bad impressionist. Yeah. Even then, I think you could do better. I said decent of a bad impressionist. Yeah. Even then I think you could do better. I said decent of a bad. Decent. Decent of bad. This is reminding me of my favorite TikTok,

which was an impressionist of Robert De Niro. And again, maybe a low level impressionist who's like, did a whole thing about getting the shot, the COVID shot. He's like, you want to give me a shot? You want to give me the shot? I'm the only one here. You want me to have the shot?

And that, having DeNiro being against the vaccine was really, that's where- Well, there's a take. There's a take. I would hang on to that video for a while, just being like, wait, is this pro or anti? I can't even tell I mean this will obviously be hyper hyper hyper. Give me the shot. I need give me the shot And has that been what you've been doing Arnold for every episode of this series

He came up for Predator, right? We're doing Terminator on Patreon simultaneous with this. So there's a lot of Arnold. I have to tell you, this series is the one that I have been truly looking forward to. Can't wait. I mean, McTiernan is, that's a, I mean, I can't believe it'd take this long to get to him,

like in a way. He's one of the guys we've talked about truly from the moment we started doing the show. He was always on the short list. And especially when we started doing Blank Check with Griffin and David, I'm Griffin. I'm David, good job. It's a podcast about filmography,

it's directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want and sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. In the early days, I think we really sought out rise and fall arcs. Right, exactly. He has one of the most famous rise and falls ever.

When we did James Cameron, it was like, is this going to break our show to cover someone who was this successful this consistently? Because we were doing Sean Milan, Wachowski's, Cameron Crowe, who all had similar kind of, like, arcs. And obviously coming out of George Lucas. The premise, the blank check, does a blank check work? I mean, that really is the question. Right. Right. Right. Um, and...

And he's incapable, McTiernan is basically incapable of making a movie that does okay. Yeah. I like that sheer is providing like a commentary on the thesis of blank. It's like when Kevin Smith came on the show and was like, so what is the premise? And he was sort of explaining it was like, yeah, sure. I get it. Right. Like people get kind of a blank check at a certain point. Right. Yeah. But that was also because that record was his first time listening to blank checks. Of course, listening to us speak.

He's heard you speak, I guess. He's heard me talk. Yeah. But no, but Tierenem, early on we were like, well that's, I mean, who's got a better rise and fall arc than the guy who ends up in movie jail and American jail? Right. U.S. prison.

Literal jail. Right. I mean, which is interesting because when he talks about last action hero, he says it's the worst experience he's ever had in the business. And I would imagine the wiretapping would be the worst experience. That would be my personal worst experience.

Man. Was hiring Anthony Pelicano if I had lived his life. That would be my bottom. That would be my nadir. I'm sure you guys have talked about this in the series so far, but I can't help but recommend the documentary Sin Eater, The Crimes of Anthony Pelicano. We will be covering Sin Eater, The Crimes of Anthony Pelicano on our Patreon.

Jason, yeah. Exactly, because you told us to check it out. We got drinks some months ago when you were in the city and told you we were doing McTiernan and you wax poetic to us about Sineadr and we went, we must devote an entire episode to it. We also found it's a little hard to get the proper amount of Pelicano context just jammed into a roller ball episode.

Oh yeah. The roller ball, we did roller ball on how did this get made and I tried to break down that scandal and thankfully Jason was very versed in it as well, but it is a, it's thorny. It's it's a lot, a lot is going on. Horny and thorny is Pelicano's whole thing. Do you guys like roller ball?

We have, I guess we'll that the episode we'll post later, but yeah, where are you guys on roller ball 2002? I don't think we cared post later, but yeah, where are you guys on Rollerball 2002? I don't think we cared for it to be honest. Like it seemed like a real miss. You didn't love it? Yeah, had some issues. And that's the thing about McTiernan. McTiernan, I feel like is one of those people.

I think the other person that you can put in this category of relatively few films, almost all of them bangers until there are real, real disasters in there. The other one is Martin Breast. Yes. Breast is a classic, like you can just draw a line. Here's the thing with McTiernan. His other bombs are medicine and gas.

But was that a bomb? It didn't do well and nobody liked it. It was an underperformer. But not on the level of the other bombs, which are 13th warrior roller ball, where it's like reviled, imprisonment, you know, most expensive movie or what? This is his only bomb. And this is a famous bomb where there's a lot of people later being like, Oh, actually the underrated.

That's what I want to say. He's such a feast or famine filmmaker that it's like when he made a hit, it worked on every single level. Everyone loved it. Right. It has aged well. Predator, Die Hard, Red October. Critically, commercially well regarded.

Thomas Crown. And his flops are the same. Basically we will get to, which is sort of the weird outlier. This feels like the only one of his movies that has, like, quote-unquote, a complicated legacy. Yeah, like, I've seen people say 13th Warrior is okay, but basically nobody likes any of those movies, but people like this movie. The thing about this movie, in my opinion,

and this is, just so you know, the only movie that I walked out on. You walked out. Right. Wow. In 1993. When it came, in theaters. When it came out in 1993, I walked out of the theater as a child.

How old are you? Um, I'm in like high school at this point, you know? And I remember sitting in the theater, it was like pretty empty and going, I don't like this. And at that point in your life, you usually liked movies. Like if you saw a movie, you were on board. I love movies and I walked a couple aisles back. Like I was gonna leave and then I was like,

well, let me just go back a little bit more. And I sat down again, and it was like around the, like a little bit after the first police precinct. And I was like, I think I'm gonna leave. Okay, I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna leave. I really talked myself out. I never, I didn't even know that was an option. I didn't know it was, didn't know you couldn't like movies.

You know, and I walked out. I like that you first tried to give the movie a little space. You were like, maybe if I just kinda let it, you know... Maybe I'm too close. I gotta back up a little. Let it, let it, let it really sink in. Let it take a minute to get to me. Like, you know. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, maybe just take a breath and here we go. And, and, you know. Yeah, yeah. Look at me, you know, maybe just take a breath and here we go.

And that's how I remember this film. And then in rewatching it, I was like, oh, this is just too smart for where we were at at 1993. Like, I feel like it's too soon. It's too soon. If this came out now, and it would be a big hit. I mean, it- I don't know. I mean, I think the... I think that's... I have perhaps more problems with it

than you guys might, but I think the other thing this movie had against it was something that existed at the time of this movie's release that simply doesn't exist now in the same way, which was this movie had aggressive bad press. This movie arrived as a stinker. It was an overcooked turkey on delivery. We were being told this is a bomb.

This is a mess. This is bloated. This is over budget. This is not good. We were, it was like from the jump, it was arrived as a turkey and it also, cause I just looked up some of the stuff I had forgotten it is released the second week of Jurassic Park.

We're gonna get into all this. No, we're not gonna get into it because I'm bringing it up right now. All right, we're not gonna get into it later. This film was bodied by dinosaurs. Yes, that was a huge issue. The other thing is, to your point, like it's arriving being presented by the press as a turkey, but also arriving with

like the most aggressive marketing campaign for any studio film up until that point. It's being sold so hard. The tagline for this movie was the big ticket for 93. I watched so many ads on YouTube this morning and last night, including their Burger King tie-in, where all of them just keep saying, the biggest movie of 1993. Their tagline was basically telling you, this thing is going to be a huge hit. And then simultaneously, the press for months leading up to it was like, PU, stink bomb incoming. They're burning the test cards. Yes.

But I have an issue with that because look at James Cameron. Every one of his films went through that same cycle. It's going to be a flop, it's going to be a failure, it's the most expensive movie ever, and then it comes out and it works. And it like, and people go crazy for it. James Cameron, right, literally, despite his long track record of success,

always has like nobody believes in me syndrome every time he releases a movie. You can feel it already happening for Avatar 3. And every movie is the most expensive movie ever made. It's always like, oh, this is gonna be the most... It's always like, he spent more than anything on a thing that sounds insane. He releases it and people are like,

I kind of loved it. I don't know if everyone else will though. And then it makes $2 billion. And they're like, ah, but the next one is a folly. You're right, Griffin. I kind of loved it. I don't know if everyone else will though. And then it makes $2 billion. And you're like, ah, but the next one is a folly. You're right. I mean, truly like 14 months ago, Avatar 2 became the third highest grossing movie

in history. And I already feel people are saying, yeah, but who wants to see Avatar 3? Oh yeah. It's gonna happen again. People are gonna be like, oh, name me an Avatar character. Yeah, it's gonna happen. I feel like the guys on SlashFilm were talking about this for years,

like, that Avatar has no cultural relevance whatsoever. It has left no cultural footprint. Kids don't dress up as the Navi for Halloween. There is no real awareness or no catchphrases. It's not baked into our culture at all. And then, so what's the point of these Avatar sequels? And then of course the point is made, every time they will release one,

it will make a billion, two billion dollars. The thing I find so funny is that justifiably, right? A Maverick, Top Gun Maverick and Barbie slash Oppenheimer, Barbenheimer gets so much credit for like, those are the two slash three movies that saved the movies. And in between those, Avatar the Way of Water comes out and outgrosses all of them.

Right, it's true. It's true, yeah. Yeah, I know, it's a very bizarre thing because I also feel like there's a truth that in America doesn't not have a cultural relevance. I think that he makes great world movies too. Like, and that's something that is hard to do.

Like everyone loves it. It works everywhere. You know, and, and that is, you know, that's why it makes that much money as well. It's not like it took like Top Gun. The energy of Top Gun is, Top Gun 2, it was so much bigger than Avatar 2. Like it just was, like in the States. I know it made, Avatar made more money,

but it's like, it is interesting, like how you could be that successful, but also still not have that energy. Yes, yes, but this is very much a movie, Last Action Hero, which is staking itself on like, if we don't have that sort of cultural permanence, this thing is a disaster. It's a movie that is aiming for something so big

where it's like, this needs to be the biggest hit of the year, this needs to be culturally revolutionary, or else we failed, and to not just have it underperform. Flopped. To have it outright flopped. Oh, it's a disaster. Yeah, yes. This movie essentially is culturally situated almost as a sequel to all of the movies

from the seven years prior. It is the bloated sequel to all of the McTiernan, you know, Rennie Harlan, like all of the actionTiernan, you know, Renny Harlin, like all of the action movies of this era. Right. It's sequel apex to a phenomenon in American cinema for the last decade plus. It is Schwarzenegger playing every hero and role in one man, but also it's Schwarzenegger

kind of being like, I'm expanding my audience. Well, Schwarzenegger has had being like, I'm expanding my audience. Schwarzenegger has had two tracks at this point, both of which have been wildly successful, which is Schwarzenegger family comedy and Schwarzenegger ultra violent action star. Right. And this is the movie where he's trying to unite them. It'll be together.

It's like the Avengers of everything that Schwarzenegger does in one. So much so that when he releases the toy, he doesn't want the toy to have a gun. Yes. Right. Like it comes with dumbbells and things like that. Right. Which is crazy because this movie is about, I mean, he has a song by ACDC called Big, or Big Cannon?

Yes. Or is it, and so you have that. I think it's literally called Big Gun, am I wrong? Big Gun, no, are you thinking, right, yeah, it is Big Gun. Right, so you have a song by ACDC called Big Gun. Am I wrong? Yeah, it is Big Gun, right. So you have a song by AZ Deese called Big Gun that he made them write for the film. The movie is about a guy who shoots a very large gun. The movie has a lot of gun violence in it.

I'm just going to call that out. But he's so aware. You're right, Jason. He's so aware of, I'm a role model now. I am a figure of American heroism. This is the era where he's really deep into like, I am promoting, uh, exercise and wellness alongside the president of the United States. I'm going on TV.

This is when he's clearly starting to build the bridge in his mind to eventually being governor. Yeah. He married a Kennedy who's in this film. He does that joke about the governor in the very beginning. He's like, you know, tell me when the governor gets here. And Maria Shriver gets an incredible performance in this. Maria Shriver is really good at this.

He's really establishing himself as a wholesome, like this is, this is the version of the movie that is, it is PG-13. There is no love interest. These movies traditionally have like exploitative elements. They are running through a strip club during a car, they drive the car into a strip club. Or the kinds of movies that this movie is aping or paying homage to are hard, are shoot them up. The Shane Black movies of this era that I, and ironically Shane Black does a pass at this script,

but this script is not Shane Blacky in really any way. Well, besides it takes place at Christmas. Does it? Well, twice later, three takes place at Christmas. Well, but remember when they go to his house. Okay. Right? Yeah.

And the kids on the bicycle going down, there's Christmas lights up all up and down that block. So I mean, they don't embrace it, but it's still there. If I'm Child Protective Services in the early 90s, I gotta pay Mercedes Rula a visit. She's losing sons in every movie. There's a break in. The kid is handcuffed to a toilet. The bank robber steals what little they own while reaming the kid out for not owning anything of value.

Your stuff sucks. He's taken to the precinct and the cop says, so your mom will be home soon. You can go home before her. Yeah. He doesn't even say she'll pick you up here. Yeah. Anyway, just, just noting that she loses sons to magical realism in both this and big in a way that is like

sketchy. So you think rule herself should just kind of, I'm suspect. I'm suspect. She's too good at this. I off the ball. Did you watch the alternate ending of the film? No. All right. So I bought this on 4k blue. Right. You get the steel. I off the ball. Did you watch the alternate ending of the film? No. All right, so I bought this on 4K Blu-ray. You get the steel book. I have the steel book. Steel book, yes. Okay.

And the alternate ending is Mercedes' rule. So it's the same thing where Nick, the movie theater projectionist, says, oh, I once saw Billy the Kid or whatever he says, and they walk out. Clearly, you were entranced by this line. Yes, they walk out. I will say, that's Robert Prosky, who I just wanna say is like one of the iconic character actors of this era.

He's a king. We're painting a 20 minutes of Prosky talk for later in the episode. It's gonna be two to three minutes. And originally written as the devil. The character in this was supposed to be the devil yes like that was the magical part of it he was the devil giving this ticket and because the original movie extremely violent was like a hard was that the zach penn script yeah yeah but did

you guys read the zach penn script no i know it's available to be read. Okay. Wait, Paul. Tell us about the alternate ending. Then I'm going to uncork the dossier. David's already getting so annoyed. David is already... And we're only an hour one. And this episode is guaranteed to be four and a half hours. Jason, don't make any guarantees. David!

It's Martin Luther Gordon Day of how much time is being carved out for this record. From moving houses into the holiday season into having COVID, I have basically been locked in my house for a month with my child. And what the listener is unaware of is that we talked for, I'm gonna say a solid 20 minutes before we started rolling about how to fix the Mission Impossible movies and the Fast and Furious movies,

a conversation you dear listeners will never hear, at which point David was then annoyed. I was very, yeah. I was nervy. By the way, we had all the answers. We have it all figured out for both franchises. Oh yeah. You know, but David, I'll tell you this,

we're recording this on Martin Luther King Jr.'s day, and my kids are in camp, and I'm definitely watching that clock because I know they're getting out of parkour camp at a certain time, and things have to, you know, there are things that have to get going. I'm glad they're in parkour camp, though. That's a good skill. Yeah, it's a, look, they have to learn that

for the future of humanity. Every kid in LA has to learn parkour. So, the alternate end of the movie, you know, as the Nick, the ticket taker escorts him out, we cut outside the theater and there's Mercedes' rule. And she's like, huh, where were you? As a matter of fact, don't tell me. I don't want to know until I'm on my deathbed. Then I'll be full of Demerol and it won't make any sense and it'll be okay.

I'm just happy you're back. And it's such a weird... That sounds disheartening. Oh, it didn't. This doesn't work. This is, it's a weird ending. You don't need to see the mom again, but it's so, it's such a downer of an ending because you're kind of reminded that this kid...

Right. This kid has a fairly shitty life that has not been addressed. A really shitty life. Nothing's been fixed. Yeah. Nothing, nothing. Yeah, he doesn't walk away with anything.

He wasn't even a kid who was shy. This is the kind of movie that I wish there was like a companion movie to that was just a heartbreaking drama thriller starring Mercedes Ruehl about where is her son. Like Marvin's Room or something. Yes, yes. Like pre-Giuliani New York,

just sorta like tooling around. He was just here. He was just here. He's at that movie theater, I know it. He's with that damn projectionist. Right, and the social workers were like, I'm sorry, he hangs out with an 80-year-old projectionist all day.

Houdini's ticket? I should say. I mean, it's not dissimilar from Marty McFly hanging out with him. It's not. It makes more sense because Prostky actually has something to offer this kid. Yes.

Magic. Magic. Free movie, baby. Movies. Free movies. That's true. I should say this is a mini-series on the films of John McTiernan. It's called Pod Hard with a Vengecast. Magic You know, in the past we've gone, McTiernan's a dream series. Or when people have asked us who's coming up next, and I say McTiernan, they go, who's that? What did he make?

Versus most of the people we've covered. He is fascinating for how big his career was, how high his highs, how low his lows. It is a pretty deep level of film fan who actually knows him by name and holds all that together in one career. And if you say to people, this dude, his second through fourth movies were in order, Predator, Die Hard and Hunt for Red October.

They go, oh shit, so he was like the greatest action filmmaker of all time. And you go, and then he made Last Action Hero. You see people in real time short circuit of, wait, they hired the guy who made those movies to parody himself? Which is the whole thing about this film that is fascinating is as you said, it's like, let's get Schwarzenegger, Shane Black, and John McTiernan to make the film making fun of the thing they have.

Right, and I think that, oh yeah. The script was written by, like, Zach Penn studied Shane Black's scripts to match the rhythms. I mean, they use the same musical riffs, which I absolutely love. I think that was part of the reaction at the time. It was like, you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Calls coming from inside the house. Right, and I think critics in 93 especially were just sort of like, you have been ruining movies. Now, we look back on these movies with a lot of love. Golden Age. But I think, right, at that time, with a lot of love, but I think right at that time there was kind of like, Oh God, the eighties were so crass and vulgar. These guys are emblematic of that. Like, you know, this is, yeah, you don't get to then be like,

ha ha ha, didn't we have a great time? And like, we knew we were doing the whole time. Like they can't do that. Well, I mean, it's so funny because even I was reading a bunch of stuff about this, like Schwarzenegger blamed Bill Clinton for this movie's failure. Yes. Crazy. Um, that's wild. That's wild. I'd like to be like, Oh, Bill Clinton likes highfalutin movies.

Uh, you know, and, and that's, and he kind of, he's such an art house freak. I just want to see secrets and lies five times. It is funny how I think it's impossible for us to engage with obviously the culture wars of 93 like sincerely, but like Clinton's whole thing was, Oh yeah. You know, I'm a man of the people. I play the sax. I eat French fries, right? You like, Republicans still tried to be like, this, you know, lace curtain, elite motherfuckers, he's reading books, you know, wearing glass, he went to Oxford University. He likes Tom Clancy.

He's a Rhodes Scholar, meanwhile he's eating like, old mac and cheese out of a booth. Right, like, meanwhile it's like he lives inside a barbecue pit. Like, you know, it was the he lives inside a barbecue pit. Like, you know, it was sort of like Arkansas version. Anyway. But I want to say something about McTiernan, and you probably have already talked about this a little bit, but there was a time that action directors

were a little bit more faceless. Like, and I do think that like Christopher McQuarrie is in that camp in an interesting way. Like, it's like, oh no, no, I just make movies. And that's it. I think people know these names and it's interesting. Their movies have the legacy,

but their careers are kind of second to the film. Well, I think that that generation kind of is comparable to the journeyman directors that then became like the bedrock of the Western. You know what I mean? Like John Ford, Howard Hawks. These are all directors who are making genre, all sorts of genre, movies in all sorts of genres, but then become the kind of, like,

the people who absolutely establish what it is to be a Western, right, in that era of stuff. And these guys who have this mentality of, to absolutely establish what it is to be a Western, right? In that era of stuff. And these guys who have this mentality of, it's a gig, I'm making entertainment, I'm not taking my work too seriously, but I work very seriously, I am an artist,

I have a high level of understanding of craft and I have a point of view. You're Walter Hills, you're John Frankenheimers, you're like, who else? Joe Dante. Those people then are called auteurs and are revered as auteurs in that way that then later, I feel like people would then look at Tony Scott or, you know, Ridley Scott.

Tony Scott is, you know, well, McTiernan, I feel like is oftentimes people will think Tony Scott directed. Who do you think directed Die Hard? No, no, no, you know, well, McTiernan, I feel like is oftentimes people will think Tony Scott directed. If they, who do you think directed Die Hard? No, no, no, you're exactly right. And I think Tony Scott is probably more notorious now than he was in the 90s. Yes, most of these guys we're talking about,

it takes a full 20 years before they start getting reclaimed as like, this is actually a serious filmmaker, quote unquote. So I saw Paul gave this four stars on Letterboxx. So I know Paul likes Last Action Hero. Griffin, I'm assuming you like Last Action Hero for the most part. I'll unpack this more thoroughly, but I watched this on cable when I was probably 15,

having heard it was a notorious disaster. And I was like, oh, I half like this. It's a mess, but I kind of get it. I had not seen again until last night. I kind of unabashedly love this movie now. I think it's misshapen and left-handed, but I like love this thing as an object. I have notes for this movie, but right, I do, I largely appreciate it.

I'd probably give it four stars as well. Jason, it sounds like you're maybe more mixed. I'm more mixed, you know? And I think I'm more mixed partially because as the oldest person here, this movie comes out when I'm in mixed, you know, and I think I'm more mixed partially because as the oldest person here, this movie comes out when I'm in my twenties, you know? So I, and I am very much receiving the information that it's bad, and I'm at that age predisposed

to not want to like these big blockbuster movies. I'm in my- You're in an early phase. I'm in my, yes, Christoph Kozlowski phase. You're in your Bill Clinton era. I'm going to the Brattle Theater to watch The Decalogue. Hell yeah. Shout out to The Brattle, still a great theater. One of the greatest franchises, of course, The Decalogue.

The Decalogue, of course. Arnie tried to remake it. Yeah. But I do think also this movie's coming out, and in 1993, imagine seeing this movie that is essentially giving this kind of like golden, huge nostalgia to movies like commando. Right. At the time he must've been like, this is horseshit. That movie came out six years ago. Now you can watch it and you're like, I tell him this down for command. You know, like that's right. And it would be playing in a crumbling movie hall and like, oh, I love the power of cinema.

In 93, that sounded stupid, I'm sure. That's one of the things that I do want to point out is like, this is one of the last of those movies that is kind of romanticizing going to the movies, the cinema palace. It is cinema paradiso. This era, there's a bunch of movies in this timeframe that are people loving and worshiping going to the movies.

And that is just done after this. We don't- I have a question for you. Producer Ben is on the mic. Producer Ben's on mic. He's behind the computer monitor, but he's on mic. Ben, how long are we into the record right now? 30 minutes, depending on how much of that beginning impression we cut out. Why do you ask that Griffin? Will you give me a heads up when we're at an hour? Why? Yeah. Why? Just kidding,

a joke. David? Yes? This episode, once again, brought to us by Mubi. Mubi! Moo. Oh! I was just doing my impression of her. The cine-ass cow is not back. Listen. Where's she at?

I don't know. She's on vacation. She's not... Long vacation. Want her to work all the time? You live to work or work to live, you know? Oh, Mubi. A security and streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the

globe. It's got kind of directors, emerging auteurs. There's always something new to discover. And with movie, each and every film is hand selected. You can hear the fingers rifling through the films. Obviously, they had some pretty cool releases last year. Fallen Leaves. Sure.

Passages. One of my favorite movies of the year. The Delinquents. These are good movies worth seeing that are on the service right now. But then you've also got some cool stuff like Bong Joon-Ho's Snowpiercer. Library title. Right? Yep.

A classic. They've got some Mia Hunts and Love movies on there right now, Bergman Island and Things to Come as part of a local special program. That's Bergman Island, you gave best supporting actress. Yeah, it's a great movie. Yeah. I'm looking at the site right now obviously they've got a Denny Villeneuve's En Sonde if you want to check out one of his earlier hits. Especially while March Madness is happening maybe we'll have to be covering

that later in the year. Could happen. Could happen. True if you want to see maybe he's like Ishtar that's on there. That's a blank check project. I'm looking that's not always easy to watch Hey, you know what? I'm seeing here right here on the front page. What do you got full-time? One of my favorite film right at the start a film. I gave my best actress prize I saw a lot of people saying I've never heard of this. I want to watch this there It is right there look for a limited time you can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check That's mubi.com slash blank check for a month of great cinema for free. It's great.

It's great. Use movie. I use it all the time. Great cinema. Here's the pitch. Good. Good. It's good that you get great.

Here's the pitch. Good. The pitch is good. We're doing a good job of pitching. Just like, here's my pitch. Good. Last action hero. I'm gonna actually look at the dossier here.

So as you guys have mentioned, Zach Penn and Adam Leff, who get a story credit on this film, they wrote the original script here. They met at Wesleyan. They say the only scene left from their script is the Hamlet scene. Which is funny.

Which is, To have Joan Plowright, Laurence Olivier's wife, be their teacher who's showing them an Olivier Hamlet performance. This movie is so, on a level of scale and scope, so enormous for people and places and sets and everything that they have. Joan Plowright in for that one scene just to do that joke.

Budget and clout to make every joke the biggest version of the joke. I watched this with commentary. The commentary it sounded like was recorded in 2021 for this 4K release. So it's very recent. And McTern basically makes it clear he has not rewatched the movie since it came out So a lot of it he's rediscovering. It's a very sad contemplative Commentary that's pretty fascinating but a term he uses five times in a derogatory sense is

Gigantism this movie suffered from gigantism and it's it's interesting that he isn't saying like overblown. He's saying gigantism as if it's like a pitulatory disease, a hormone issue where you're overproducing size. And like Joan Plowright's the best version of that, where you're like, we want to joke about this kid being bored by the Olivier Hamlet and imagining the Schwarzenegger Hamlet. Why not dust off Laurence Olivier's widow? Oh, this movie is favors.

This movie is more favors. Oh, I don't even know if it's favors. I think they're just paying people. Yeah. You've got Sharon Stone walking out of the police station as the basic instinct character. But that's Esther House. I mean, that's his whole thing.

Yeah, and Schwarzenegger. I heard that Schwarzenegger. That, you know what? Give me this movie, give me this movie directed by Verhoeven. Give me this movie, give me this movie as a toxic send-up of these kinds of movies versus the... By the way, give me the movie, give me the James Cameron version of this movie,

and it's a million times better, I think. The pen and the left script, I think is what you're talking about. It's a movie about the toxic heart of these kinds of movies, right? They, just to go into their little careers, they had written a movie about a monstrous rat rampaging through Central Park,

which they hope would get them an agent. It did not. I just like the sound of that, just FYI. They do Robert McK McKee's screenwriting course and they write a film called Extremely Violent and They joke that it should be called Reverse Purple Rose because it's the purple Rose of Cairo in reverse rather than someone coming out Of a movie you go into the movie Wouldn't it be funny to get sucked into an action movie? And wouldn't it be a nightmare to live in this sort of modern type of action movie, this excess that we've heightened too. Yes.

And then basically design it as like a call and card script to get their foot in the door. Don't think they'll ever realistically get it produced. But over time they start like... But it's an exercise, this script. Because it's them watching every action movie and being like, okay, what are the tropes? We have to put every single one in here. And yes. And as you said, okay, what are the tropes? We have to put every single one in here. Yes, and as you said, Paul,

they're both watching these movies and they're like finding copies of Shane Black's script so they can read how he wrote them. So they can even riff on his structure as like a typist. The script gets retitled, The Last Action Hero. It ends up to Columbia's VP of Production and future friend of Griffin Newman, Barry Josephson. Correct, producer of the tech and disenchanted.

He basically pitches it to Schwarzenegger as a vehicle, as you say, the joke of why don't you play the joke character that is a spoof of you. And they had written the script, they throw it out to every studio. At this point, they've made friends with readers, with secretaries, with assistants at all the studios, so they're getting it in front of people,

whereas the rat script couldn't even get seen. And everyone who reads it is kind of like, impressive exercise, you can't actually make this. And I think the thing that every studio other than Columbia clocks is like, this thing is gonna to have really difficult tones to manage because it kind of has the internal heart of like a children's fantasy movie done in ultra-violent style those two things are gonna be

really hard to put together versus Columbia sees it and goes like this is a billion dollar concept for a movie even if we don't love this script, this idea is fucking out of control, sellable. Well, because I think that they probably see the cameos, they see the connections, they see ways that they can advertise other movies. I mean, the fact that I left this movie going, oh, I should rewatch Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula. Like, it's there. It's in the...

It's quite present in this film, yes. Oh, it's bizarre. Yeah. Seven Seals. bizarre. Seven Seals. Yeah, you could see, you could see like a Columbia exec going, you know what, if the movie's good, we could take that Danny DeVito animated cat and make a whole movie with that one too. Whiskers.

Yeah, whiskers, I love whiskers. Barry Josephson, also producer of Dirty Grandpa, which I was in. Correct. Oh, yes. Whenever I go to like dinner drinks with Barry and a waitress comes over, I go like, hey, I just want you to be aware of who you're serving. This is the producer of Dirty Grandpa.

I always embarrass him by doing that. The best. I just wanna tell you guys that when this project comes to Schwarzenegger, he's deciding he's king of the world, right? This is right after, you know, Terminator 2. He's deciding between a million projects, some of them. A Ron Howard-directed Curious George, which never happens.

Curious George, one of those things that kicked around for 20 years where studios were like, if one of us can crack this, this is the ultimate hit. But like Brad Bird almost does it at one point as CGI live action hybrid. It doesn't happen until they make an animated movie that basically doesn't exist. Another movie he's thinking about doing is a film, a famous spec script called

Cop Gives Waitress $2 Million Tip, which of course eventually is made into a film called It Could Happen to You, starring Nicolas Cage. Right. The biggest competition is another Columbia movie called Sweet Tooth, which is made in 2010 as the Dwayne Johnson film, The Tooth Fairy. Oh yes. Which makes the Tooth Fairy make a lot more sense that the rock just goes like,

what are the scripts that Arnold almost made, but didn't 15 years ago? Makes perfect sense. Schwarzenegger however goes for last section hero cause he thinks this is a family friendly movie and quote, Schwartzenegger, however, goes for last action hero because he thinks this is a family-friendly movie and quote, the country is going in an anti-violence direction. So he thinks a sort of satirical family-friendly version of an action movie is the pivot he needs to make. Well, Terminator 2.

Rather than a movie where he blows people's head off with. Terminator 2 is the hardcore, ultra-violent, R-rated version of an Arnold family movie, right? Where he's... Well, right, because in that movie even, he says, I don't wanna kill any, like they make him not kill anyone, right? So he's always shooting people in the legs and arms.

Right, he... But his thing is, I want, there's no body count. He, you know, when Cameron gives him the script, he's like, what are you doing? I don't kill anybody. I'm the Terminator, I've got to kill people. Well, but then I think he realizes, oh, this is so ingenious.

And, you know, and he's parodying this in this movie as well, because he's talking about that, like, when he's on the red carpet line, Schwarzenegger is, in the last action hero premiere at the end of the movie. He's like, oh, in the first movie we killed 148 people. This one we killed like 68. Yeah. You know, and it's like he's parodying that,

but he's aware of it. Like he's aware and he's trying to, I think, address it. He's aware that the culture is shifting around him. And if he wants to have his cake and eat it too, and remain some sort of action star, he needs to find a way to evolve it. And he needs to like unify the two sides of his film career. But it's weird because you're talking about a guy

who's like, total recall, kindergarten cop, Terminator 2, last action hero. At this point, he hasn't felt the, the juniors, the jingle all the ways. No, no, that comes later. Yeah, and so it's like, he's on a high. After that, after this movie, he kind of bifurcates where it's like, I'm gonna do Jingle all the way in Junior,

but I'm also gonna do Eraser and True Lies. True Lies. Like he goes back into like, I have my grownup movies and my kids' movies and never the twins shall meet again. He really only makes one hit film after this film in his entire career, which is True Lies. Yeah.

Everything else is between qualified hit and disaster. Right. Like something like Eraser, it's like, yeah, that's a qualified hit. That did fine. Yeah. But like he never actually experiences arny level success after True Lies. No, we think of him as the king of the 90s and he's basically cooked by 95. True Lies is like a farewell tour, like one final time with your best director, go out doing the kind of thing we all love seeing you do. And then he immediately becomes man at a time,

which this movie sort of feels like he's seeing is coming for him. Right? Yeah. Culture at this point, culture is in this very moment shifting underneath us, right? Yes. Like all of the big bombastic movies of this era, the shoot-em-up crazy violence,

are all going away for a different quieter, smaller movies, in the same way that Nirvana and all of the alternative bands in the early 90s are supplanting all of the big bombast of hair metal and the guns and roses and the poisons and all of the crazy, enormous, pyrotechnic nonsense is giving way to much smaller acts, much more, you know, meat and, like not big meat and potatoes,

but like really alternative indie bands that are suddenly thrust into the limelight. And all of the Arnold's and Sly's are suddenly like the same as, you know, poison. They are like, oh, this is bloated and big. I also think the other thing is like when the first Die Hard comes out in 88, like Bruce is such a weird counterpoint to Stallone and Schwarzenegger as the model of who an action star is, right?

And even the second and third tier guys behind Stallone and Schwarzenegger are like, Van Damme and Chuck Norris trying to do the similar thing. And McClane is like, this is a normal guy. He's got a shitty hairline. He's not in perfect shape, right? He talks like a real person stuck in one of these movies. He's funny, but in a way that doesn't feel

like wildly scripted and he's more relatable. Well, he also like, he runs away. Totally. He flees at times. His character from Moonlighting. I mean, it is Moonlighting. It's David Addison. But there's this sort of slow release, even though that movie is 88 and it's a big hit and they make sequels quickly. It's like by the mid 90s, someone like Bruckheimer is really starting to go like oh, no

We should put Nicolas Cage in our action movie. We shouldn't hire action stars We should hire good actors and especially actors who are kind of funny and put an unconventional guy at the center of this To make them a little off kilter and the idea of the like cartoon man I start dressing Parker Sam Neill and Jeff Goldblum, right? And that's that's the other thing that's happening at this point is like the IP is bigger than the star the cartoon man. The stars of Jurassic Park are Sam Neill and Jeff Goldblum. Right. And that's the other thing that's happening at this point is like the IP is bigger than the star. The idea is bigger than the star.

You know, Spielberg considers doing Jurassic Park with Harrison Ford and Sean Connery. And then he's like, the stars, the dinosaurs. Why would I pay for those guys if I can just get good actors? Well, I think that the other thing that I'm fascinated by was Schwarzenegger is he does have the right instincts.

He doesn't always hit the target. I think if you were going to compare them to Stallone, Stallone doesn't know what works. Stallone is throwing himself here and there. And you know, the famous story about hit, the reason why he did, you know, stop where my mom will shoot is because Schwarzenegger kind of tricked him into it. But Schwarzenegger right away is like, okay,

I'm this guy, I'm this, you know, I'm this big hulking man. How do I, how do I gravitate? How do I open up my audiences? Like he's trying very hard not to just be the bad guy. He's open to doing comedy. He's open to like having people laugh at him. Like I think there's a thing,

an ego thing with Schwarzenegger, where it's like, I know I'm the best. I know I'm the biggest, like body wise person. I know I'm attractive. I know I can handle this. He's got an ego about him and that he doesn't matter. Like the people can make fun of him. And so I think that there's an F.

Yeah. Well, I think there's a way also in which I think he is clearly, and if you, you know, watch the documentary that came out about him on Netflix recently or whatever, like I think Schwarzenegger is a businessman. He is a very smart, astute businessman. Yes, of all these people.

Totally understands how to approach his career from a business point of view, whereas Stallone is, thinks of himself as an artist. Yes. He is an artist with all of the insecurities and pettiness that comes along with being an artist. It's why, that's why Vin Diesel is Stallone and Dwayne Johnson is. Schwarzenegger,

like both sort of generic brand versions in a way. But, but, but Paul, you're right. That there is this fascinating sort of lack of ego with him or an ego that is subservient Schwarzenegger that is subservient to his, no, no, to his business. Stallone is like overcome with the ego, but Schwarzenegger has this thing of like, I know people are making fun of me, that they are going to make fun of me.

I'm not trying to stop that or fight that. I want to get rich off of their jokes. Right, it's very funny, yeah, I get it, I get it. If someone's gonna make money off of making fun of me, then it's gonna be me, you know? It's the part of him that thinks about doing the Hans and Franz movie, where he's like, if these guys are making fun of me on SNL,

then I should do a feature film with them, where I am cooler than they are. It's him coming up to Ivan Reitman in a restaurant and after Ghostbusters and saying, -"I want to be a Ghostbuster." -"Yes." You know, like, he is like, you know, that's in that last action hero's book, that story. Like, Schwarzenegger understands, like,

-"I want to get in on that." -"Yeah." You know, book, that story. Like Schwarzenegger understands like, I wanna get in on that. You know, like I can. But I think, and when you put him with the right person, whether it's James Cameron or whether it's Ivan Reitman for the first. Officer Whispers. Yeah, you know, you get this really perfect, you get, you hit a home run.

And I think that the problem with this was, he was smart to say, I want to be involved in this. And this movie then gets pulled by people like you were saying earlier, who don't really get the joke. It's like they get it enough, but they're not outside of it to actually, like you needed like, it needs to be produced by them or, I don't know, like they're like, cause the to actually, you needed, it needed to be produced by them or something.

I don't know, because the idea of the devil character, the devil character was a ticket taker. The idea was the devil wants kids to watch these movies because it makes them violent, right? Which is something that those producers are never gonna put in the film because they're like, no, no, we're not poisoning the youth of this country, we're the good guys. And so all the satire starts to kind of go off

on the side a little bit. I think the movie even, the original script, which you'd never see, but ended with the little kid going on a shooting rampage, taking out his anger at his fucked up life on all these bad guys. Which you know. Right, before he realizes, yes, there was some, there was a deep morale,

morality to the film. Like an angry morality. A cynicism, right. When McTiernan talks about the gigantism of this movie and so much the commentary, I sent you guys a photo that was just, the subtitles on the commentary was parenthetical size Then the studio decided they wanted it to be the biggest movie of all time

You know and he just keeps on saying that of just like it got too big it got too big and so much of that Is like okay all of them saying it's really funny that we're gonna make this parody of giant movies Can we also simultaneously make it bigger than all the movies we're parodying in a way that feels very based in like a dick measuring contest? But let me say this. It's not just it takes the money to make the joke,

it's that we also want to compete. John McChernan has made a lot of films that are poorly regarded. Uh-huh. And we've actually discussed almost all of them. The way we've been recording this, we've discussed kind of his flops first. Yeah. he's always got some fucking excuse. No, of course. He is not I've in like the research He's not a director who's like, you know what? I should have done this or I should have instead

He's always like it's the studio's fault. It's the writers fault, right? Yeah, they did this they did that. It's not my fault It's not my fault, like, you know, and I'm always just like Johnny that was his attitude his attitude at the trial. The trial, he had the same thing. It was like, well, I wouldn't have done that unless they did that. Like, so with this one, it's like, they wanted it too big with roller ball. Roller ball is just, we will get to that. We've recorded an episode, spoiler alert. It is a litany of him being like, I did this, this, this, this, this. I'm like, those are, that's why the movie's bad. Anyway, the studio's foot problem was, and I'm like no it's you

I will say though this commentary. I'm sure especially the fact that it was recorded recently Yeah, there are like six major things that he blames himself for okay He's taking he's harder on himself than this on this movie Today than I expected then he seems to be on any of his other films right cuz he this movie He actually should kind of be like well look it's coming a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, some people defend it He was really hard on himself He throws out the gigantism thing a lot and he's like but that was sort of a bed I shouldn't have gotten into I should have found a way to fight this or whatever

But she's so tempted by your I got a noisy cricket take the noisy cricket The noise of cricket from man black I'm just so tempted by your cricket. I got a noisy cricket. Take the noisy cricket. Just love it. Look at it. The noisy cricket from Man Black. Um. Um. All right, let me, let me, okay. I will say the joy of you guys being in a two shot is like watching you two play, like David's,

I wish people could watch David's physicality. We talk about him. And how, how frustrated he is at not being able to get in while we're just absolutely monologuing. Apologies, David. All right, I love you all very, very deeply, but I do wanna say Schwarzenegger comes aboard

and this is definitely the turning point moment that you're kind of, you know, that McTiernan is talking about. He's like, let's have Shane Black rewrite this, which is this weird, someone should sit him down maybe and be like, no, no, no, this is a parody of a Shane Black script. Hiring the most expensive writer in Hollywood to rewrite a parody of himself is maybe not the move.

That's the other thing McTiernan says is like, at this point, Schwarzenegger just represents big. He's the biggest guy, he's huge. And Black gets a million dollars to rewrite this movie because that's what he is. Schwarzenegger is like at this moment the best star at selling his own movies and selling his own image. Obviously Black is in Predator, like he knows him. But they're also like collapsing forward into

these movies are now not Predator, not Commando, not T1 or T2, these movies are now kids movies. This movie is through the eyes of a 12 year old, 13 year old boy, what is he in this? Yeah, he's like 12. 12, he was 12 when he shot the movie. Right. Okay, so that that when he shot the movie. Right. Okay, so that's what these movies have now become.

It was one thing when action movies were hyper-violent, R-related, like, you know, die hard, lethal weapon. These are stories about bad guys and good guys and the moral grade in between. There are also stories about marriages. Broken and dull. Yes. Yeah, exactly, like grappling with depression. And there are stories about Vietnam veterans.

Right. As everybody in this era is, these are stories about men who've come home from war and how that has managed to fuck them up powerfully. Yeah, yeah. And that's an element too. And here we have the, what's a, what's a, what I don't like about Last Action Hero

is that it is a kids movie. It is primarily a kids movie. A kids point of view on these movies. Well, now let me, let me just say that I did watch this movie with my children. Humble. I have a seven year old my children. Humble. I have a seven-year-old and a nine-year-old.

Okay. And I thought, okay, I'm in copyright hell right now for my book. I had five days to copy, edit my entire thing. So I needed to figure out time to watch this movie before this podcast. And I looked at this film and I said, well, kids, we're gonna watch this movie before this podcast. And I looked at this film and I said, well kids, we're gonna watch this together.

This is gonna be a family movie night. Now, my wife is not home, thankfully, so I could pop this in and watch their faces as they watch this movie. A movie that opens with a decidedly terrifying scene. The Ripper on the roof with children murdering. that opens with a decidedly terrifying scene. The Ripper on the roof with children murdering. Yeah, the Ripper, if you're seven years old, I mean, Tom Noonan does not half sell that.

No, Ripper. No. So we watch this movie and they go bananas for it. My child who hates film, he hates film. He once said to me, Dad, there's a kid on my basketball team who's like you. My child who hates film, like he hates film. He once said to me, dad, there's a kid on my basketball team who's like you. I go, oh yeah, why?

And he goes, he likes movies. And I'm like, and I go, what, what do you, what's that, like that, that's not a weird thing. I like movies. Like, yeah, whatever. I'm like, like movies. I wanna go on record as saying Paul's son is a bully and Paul's son bullies me.

He bullies me for liking movies and comic books. Wow. He is so... Wait, I'm just out of curiosity, Paul. Have they seen any, have you shown them Lethal Weapon or Die Hard? Oh God no. No, they haven't seen a single Marvel movie. Got it.

They haven't seen anything in this tone really. No, the most that they have seen that, Wow. You know, they've seen all the animated films out there. Elf is big, Home Alone is big, Home Alone kind of is a diehard, you know, but you know, Goonies, like they're not, they're not seeing a lot of live,

a lot of live action, honestly. Interesting. Just because they don't seem to have any interest in it. They are jumping on the couch. Wow! I've never seen, they're like, we're rewinding sequences, like when Skeezy comes in, that little kid is supposed to kiss the girl,

like they're like, rewind it! And then Schwarzenegger shocks the guy and he starts firing the machine gun, like they're losing their goddamn minds. And do they stick with it the entire time? Cause it's long. The entire, that's the thing I didn't realize is after the end of it, I was like, oh.

It felt like it was gonna end and I was like, oh, it's long. They watch it the entire time. They never do that. Yeah. And they did ask some great questions. The question number one was when they were hearing Schwarzenegger talk, they're like, well, he doesn't really talk like that, right?

And I go, no, he does. And they said- And they were like, Griffin probably does a great impression of him, right? That's really easy. That's a kind of clear handles anyone could do. He goes like this, he goes, is that British? They go, no, it's not British.

No, no, kind of close geographically, but not culturally. Yeah. And that was the thing that I was really surprised at. I was like, oh, they got it. And then what I thought was really interesting was my seven-year-old, I love the way his brain works. He's the one who is more open to film. He was really loved the jigsaw puzzle of,

he's in a movie, he's out of a movie, that's the character in the movie. And he was really kind of blown away by it. And this morning at breakfast, he was like, so an actor can play a character, but a character is like, oh wow, this is really interesting. It was really interesting to watch it through their eyes. Because I'm listening to the riffs that remind me but a character and it's like, oh wow, this is really interesting. Like it was really interesting to watch it through their eyes.

Cause I'm like listening to the riffs that remind me of Joe Satriani from like lethal weapon. And I'm like going, oh yeah, that's awesome. I love that. And they're just watching it with, they don't know who Arnold Schwarzenegger. They've never seen the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I find it so interesting in the dossier. I mean, one of the interviews with Zach Penn later after the fact, he was like, you know, when we wrote this, we said, it would be great to get Stallone or Schwarzenegger. You maybe need the guy, you need Jack Slater to be played by the real guy versus a parody of the guy,

right? But then he was like, in our dream list, we're writing this movie for Landis or Zemeckis. We're like, you want a guy who's got a little bit more of like a comedic touch, a little bit more of like appeals to children. If Zemeckis hadn't made Roger Rabbit, that's the thing. Like this is a movie he could make.

Now, the fact that he's made Roger Rabbit probably means that he's just like, well, I already did. Why bother? Can I throw out the two guys I thought of immediately while rewatching this? Dante makes so like Dante would haveing this. Dante makes so, like Dante would have nailed this. Dante would make, I would argue, the single best version of this movie where he could have served all masters and all tones. It also might have been a movie that was smaller in size,

did okay at release, and now has a huge legacy. Matinee comes out in 93, and that's sort of his, I mean, it's a different era, but his kind of like, let me make a movie about the movies. Like, you know. But that's also his like, his- Everybody had to do that. Everyone had to do that.

Everybody in that era is making a movie about going to the movies. Absolutely. You know, cause it's the last, that's the generationally the last group of people who enjoyed it or took solace in it. Now here's the other guy I was thinking of, right? And I don't know if this movie works

for your children today in 2024. Can I guess who you're going to say? Yeah. Chris Columbus. Correct. Yeah. Here's the thing I thought, right? Because people will ding the kid in this a lot, Austin O'Brien, right?

And I was like, who else is born the same year as this kid? If they make this movie that is Schwarzenegger and Macaulay Culkin and Chris Columbus directs it. I think that film is actually as big of a hit as they want it to be. You disregard the Jurassic problem, but it's like that would have been the version of this movie that every audience could latch onto

and go, I understand exactly what this is. I do think it would be less interesting to talk about today. The only thing I'll say to that is like Culkin is actually kind of in a similar, like the fall has arrived. That's why he may be needed to do this. But I mean, like it could be a compounding thing

where people are like, no, we're sick of all of this. And you put it all in one movie. But this kid in this movie, who I think it's kind of a bad rap. I think he's fine. I don't think he's good or whatever, but I think people just decide like, well, he's an annoying kid.

Like, he's fine. I think the movie is doing the kid a disservice. I agree with that. Because I think, and let me be clear, I'm sorry. I think the movie, but I think primarily McTiernan is doing the kid a disservice because the kid is unfortunate. The movie doesn't have a sense of humor.

The movie doesn't have a light touch. McTiernan doesn't have a light touch at all. That's the problem. And the movie needs to have that levity. McTiernan needs to be able to have a lightness to this that is what is absolutely evident in a movie like Home Alone, where true violence is,

you're able to enjoy that a child is so adjacent to true violence. It's sometimes literally carrying a pistol. Griffin, I need to tell you something. Please. It's about an hour. Okay, thank you. Our guest today from the How Did This Get Made podcast.

You know your mistake? You should have out-rode with it. The league. I've done that bit before, so I didn't wanna repeat that. I thought pinning it an hour would be funny. Sounds good. Jason Manzuchis, Paul Scheer, thank you for coming back on the show.

Love to be here. Thrilled to be here. Let me, I keep on thinking about this idea though, like the other problem with this movie, and what I really think is worthy of discussing, is it finished shooting three weeks before it came out. This is a big McTiernan complaint. But before we get to that, I just wanna pin,

cause this is, you were just kind of activating this, but thing one McTiernan fully blames himself for on the commentary. And he says it basically two minutes in and it keeps repeating it is, I got the tone wrong. He's like, I'm watching this. Is Sonnenfeld a guy who could do this?

Like Adam's family's like a year or two before? Possibly, yeah, possibly. I'm trying to think of guys where it's like, visual sense, self-awareness, can do comedy, but you know. Oh, you know who I would have taken? Renny Harlan. Well, the thing about Renny Harlan is, that guy delivers...

trash... really well. But can he elevate to this? I don't know. Renny Harlan could pull it off if you handed him a perfect screenplay. I got it. I know who could do it. Donner. Donner could do it. I mean, are you thinking of Deep Blue Sea, Jason?

Because Deep Blue Sea is the Harlan movie where you're like, this is funny, and it knows it's funny. No, he did Fort Fairlane. He did Fort Fairlane and he couldn't do it. Perfect tone. Perfect tone. Fort Fairlane, which shares a co-writer with this film. Fort Fairlane is a masterpiece.

David Arnott. The reason I thought the Columbus thing is it's like, this movie is stuck between these two poles, which are like the Verhoeven version of it Right and the Columbus version of it and said you have a movie that's doing both at the same time Which is part of what I find fascinating about watching it right now Everything that when I was 14 and I watched this for the first time on cable. I was like, yeah, this really doesn't fit together I'm now kind of into its identity as a movie fighting with itself

But I think in the commentary, McTiernan just keeps on saying like, I got this wrong. I got this wrong and I'm sorry, the two extensions of that. We got a clear room for David right now, he's panicking. The two extensions of that is he keeps on saying, at the end of the day, this is a Cinderella story. That's the tone this needed to have,

it's wish fulfillment, it's kid fantasy. It's more of a kids movie than it is an action movie and I let the action movie stuff and the sort of pressure the studio all this sort of stuff. He's not a kids movie director. Totally. Which he acknowledges and the other thing he keeps on saying is like I was cowardly. I look at these comedic sequences and I lack the courage to fully go for the joke. I go for 25% of the joke or 50% of the joke. There are times like the La Brea Tar Pits fart joke. Yes. Where you're like, what is that?

Like, you didn't go hard enough on the fart. I was cowered. I can see this now watching this. I should have gone two steps further. Otherwise, not worth making the joke. I'm just pulling us back to the dossier because, right, just to get the writing of this movie is crazy No, so Shane Black one thing he's he's basically like we were given a tiny script

With nothing happens and we're we beefed it up to a summer movie You know with setups and payoffs and reversals two guys who basically write a spec script That's like well, let's make the version of this that realistically could get me right in Told like Arnold Schwarzenegger's in this film. And Schwarzenegger sells his movies by saying, this one's even bigger. We had the biggest boat. We had the biggest explosion. Shane Black is proud of a gag that is sadly not in the movie

where Slater grabbed a scratch from the film and killed a villain with it. Sounds fun. So I think Black's movie, Black's script is more, it's with this guy David or not, who basically didn't write again after this movie. One of his old buddies. Right, exactly. It's with this guy David or not who basically yeah didn't write again after this movie

Is our buddy of Shane's. Right exactly. Yeah. Do we know was there a director attached during the Shane Black version was McTiernan already in at that point? No, right now we're still in script stage and this is those early 90 superstar writer phase of like yeah, you know like we're gonna bring in the biggest name Did they throw in a William Goldman at a certain point? They do. He does. Took a pass. Oh, wow. Goldman does a pass. Yeah. They bring this script to Schwarzenegger, the pen draft. He's like, love the concept.

Don't like the execution. Throw money at it until there's a script I like and then we'll hire a director. The WGA rules that pen and left get no credit, which is a fight. Yeah. And are given the story by credit. And they feel bad. And Zach Penn is given a role of a police officer in the film kind of as a tip your hat. And then Zach Penn said when he was on set, another actor came up to him and was like, by the way, the way McTernan blocking this, you're not going to be in the movie. Like you're you're he's blocking you out of the movie, which is funny.

When they get the black draft, they're like, this doesn't have the heart it needs. It doesn't have the emotional story. Arnold's now really thinking about the family movie aspect of it and is like, we need someone who can really just bring the story into this. Black came in with the ideas and the action and blowing it up to size.

And so then it's similarly like who's the most expensive writer in Hollywood. Like both times he says, get me the best. Who's the most expensive writer in Hollywood like both times He says get me the best who's the best action guy Shane Black pay him a million dollars William Goldman pay him a million dollars. You know the other one that's a crazy one who writes on this movie Carrie Fisher Yeah, Fisher Punch-up time. Yeah, you know script doctor of this era So yes

And every movie of this size basically the final round would be pay Carrie Fisher half a million dollars, a million dollars to put quote unquote the woman's touch on the picture. Right. And I will say, I love that too, and there was just a recent article about Scott Frank, who is the contemporary script doctor of our era, talking about a lot of the movies

that he's worked on, great article, in support of his new show, Monsieur Spade, which is fantastic. I can't wait to watch that show. Oh, it is good. Oh, okay, good. I've heard a lot of negative stuff about it. I dug it. I mean, I've only just started it, but I'm enjoying it very much so far. People forget how much chess Onnie and Taylor Joy played.

And we all loved chess. Yeah. Anyway, look Schwarzenegger signs on 15 million dollar salary. Yeah, and he's like I am taking I'm the executive producer I'm going to put this on my shoulders. I want to be responsible for every level of the decision-making But now there's no part of this film from marketing from selling from packaging for production that I'm not gonna have approval over get me John McTierney. Yeah. That is his first demand. I want the guy who made three of the biggest action movies in the last 10 years.

He's going to the supermarket and buying the most expensive brand of each item. But don't you think that that also makes a studio go, okay, like we're relaxed now because if you throw enough money at it, it's gonna be like, you know, how many times do we have to learn this lesson? It's gonna be good, it's not gonna be good. You know, it's gonna be a mess. And they're also like adding up the box office totals of all the people who have worked on this movie now.

But part of it, I mean, this is what they say is like, Arnold had to go out there, the athlete part of him, the businessman part of him sells his movies by being like, we spent so much fucking money on this thing. That's part of the sales tactic that has worked for him. That at the time it was like, total recalls budget's insane. And then Terminator 2 is the first movie to cost $100 million.

He loves like selling the excess of the production, of the collaborators, of the budget. It's not really until Twins that he figures out the, I will forgo a giant salary in order to have back end. And then, oh, now I've made tens of millions of dollars, many, many tens of millions of dollars. His comedies he kept thrifty, and his action movies are getting bigger

and bigger and bigger. So Schwarzenegger says he's having a drink with McTiernan early in shooting. And McTiernan says, what we're really making here is ET. And Schwarzenegger says, I start to have a sinking feeling. Maybe this PG-13 thing is a mistake. People might not buy this. Like, yes, Harrison Ford can pull it off in Raiders of the Lost

Ark or whatever. That's not my point. I'm not going to deliver enough action. I'm not going to live up to like the Schwarzenegger branding here. Zach Penn says, and he's not wrong, he's just like when they hired McTernan, I was just baffled. Like I was like Zemeckis, like you said, John Landis is a name, he says, like someone who pulled genres apart.

John McTernan does not do that and has no track record of doing that before or since really. No, no, but here's the other part of it. McTiernan, all the interviews are reading the commentaries or watch whatever. When you're like on his best films, you know, on diehard and predator, he throws a lot of shade at the movies that came after those two that quote unquote took the wrong lessons from him. I think at the moment he's making this movie, he almost has like a shame about what he feels like he birthed. Yeah.

Where it's not that he wants to parody himself, he wants to parody the people who got him wrong by like underlining the vapidness of people stealing his tricks. I think that's true and I think there's another thing which is I don't think he's parodying it enough. No. Like I don't think he's taking the piss

because I almost think he's homaging himself at times. I don't think he understands. Rather than parodying or spooking. You can't parody yourself. It's like saying like the best person to do an Arnold Schwarzenegger impression is Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like you know, and it's like you can't,

like that's, you need somebody else, you know, you need Griffin to do the impression. But wait a second, actually though, but at the same time, can I actually argue that Arnold Schwarzenegger is the best person to parody himself? He's the one example, maybe. Yeah, like.

Well, I think that he, but I guess like, yes, I agree with the Schwarzenegger of it all. I think Schwarzenegger could be in this movie and this movie could work. I don't think that McTiernan could parody himself. That's what I was saying. I think that's part of it. And I think there's also a proximity problem.

I don't think you can do last action hero where it is, Schwarzenegger is the hero with a teenage sidekick, just whatever number of short number of years after T2. Two years after T2. That's a fair point. It's too much the actual thing. He could do this, if he did this seven years later.

It's, I think the reason why Galaxy Quest works, which comes out in 1999, a handful of years later, and is doing very much a similar thing. You would argue on some level, right? Um, it's not William Shatner in that role. It's Tim Allen, right? And Tim Allen is, there are elements of Tim Allen. Yeah, but he's not doing a Shatner impression, right? Exactly.

He's doing the character. And I think that that's important. And I think that this is a movie where McTiernan goes, well, who's gonna play Benedict? Well, Alan Rickman. But Benedict is Alan Rickman in Die Hard, and purposely so, but he doesn't even get, he's like, well, we'll just get Alan Rickman.

Well, it's Charles Dance. Well, yeah, but I mean, but that's, I'm saying- His initial thinking. Sure, sure, sure. Their initial thinking, and then Charles Dance finds out in the middle of the movie that he wasn't the first choice. The first choice was Alan Rickman,

but Alan Rickman was too expensive, so he starts wearing a shirt around set that says, I'm cheaper than Alan Rickman. But like, you know, it's like, but that, like that to me, that move from McTiernan is exactly why he's not good to make this movie, or doesn't get the nuance of it. Well, we'll just get the actor. Well, and like, and that's a perfect role,

I think, to pull out, to use as the test case of how joyless and how little fun this movie is having for me, because this character specifically, the Mr. Benedict part, the Gary Busey, Mr. Joshua in Lethal Weapon, the, you know, Alan Rickman, Hans Gruber part, should be a fucking blast. He should be eating it all up.

And I feel like he's less... Less over the top than some of the people you're mentioning. Yes. Dance is a pretty nuanced actor. I love him, but I want it to be that role should, like, both Hans Gruber and Mr. Joshua are enormous characters in their respective versions of these movies.

And he is quite sedate and quiet. I would argue they didn't push him in the writing enough. Maybe. Right? Because it's like, he doesn't do that much. He doesn't have that much. Like he doesn't, there's not meat there to even, I don't know. I don't know how you shoe that scenery. Dance's whole thing is simmering villainy.

Yeah. Like that's just what he gives you or simmering heroism, like in like alien three, but like. I will tell you, my kids went bananas in the scene where he goes, I just shot a man. I just shot a man, come and get me. Like that's a funny scene that he accidentally. I did it on purpose. A dark scene. Like a scene that McTiernan does

with almost like a Verhoeven kind of edge. Like that's one where I feel like he's comedically locked into something specific. I also think what's interesting about Dancin' Benedict in this movie is, and it gets into like this being the less satisfying version of this is like popcorn entertainment but the more interesting version of it as an object with some distance he's in a certain way kind of the emotional center of the movie and his character is the guy who's having like the greatest existential crisis in a way over like I

am a character in a movie, I don't exist, and not only that, I'm a henchman. I'm not even the main villain. And that whole first section of him coming to LA and being like simultaneously thrilled and terrified by the fact that like this place is actually worse. It's New York, it's not LA. I'm sorry.

It's New York. It's New York City, my friend. Big Apple, they call York. I'm sorry. It's New York. It's New York City, my friend. Big Apple, they call it. But I agree. And I love that he, like how disposable Anthony Quinn is as the main mob guy. Yeah. Vivaldi.

His name is Tony Vivaldi. Talk about another hyper expensive joke. Yes. Okay. All right. Look, again, let me take... Let's get back to reality. Back to the document. Back to the prof. Look again, let me, let me, let me take back to the document, back to the, the profligate spending basically. So as you mentioned, they, all right, let's

rewrite the script again, pay Bill Goldman a million dollars for four weeks for four weeks of work. They don't like that script. John McTiernan supposedly rewrote the script himself. Not smart. Larry Ferguson, who is a famous script doctor at the time. Carrie Fisher, who's a screen doctor, a legendary script doctor, of course. Charles Dance says he wrote a lot of his own dialogue. Shane Black said at one point they came back to him and were like, hey, can you rewrite,

we're missing X, Y, and Z. And Shane Black was like, no, you fired me. Fuck you. Like, I'm not doing that. So another thing that has happened is Sony who make as you may know, make it to movies. Well, but at this point they make like high fives and televisions. Yes. Have bought a movie studio called Columbia pictures for three point four billion dollars. They do that in eighty nine eighty nine.

They have hired John Peters, the most chill person in the universe to run it Yeah, John Peters, then you know flames out like a giant meteor mark price comes on board But so basically this is a time where mark price is kind of sweating He's new in the job and he decides like this is the movie like if this fails I'm done It's a bit of a zazlav moment where all the chips get pushed in on the flash and it's like I'm gonna will a movie Into being the biggest movie the other thing here is like now this happens all the time But the acquisition the Sony acquisition of Columbia is such a big right now mark price mark canton mark price It's such a big deal at the time it pretty quickly comes out that it was like

Wildly overvalued that Sony overspent and that they immediately are like, this is a bad business. The movie business doesn't make sense. Why did we do this? Why did we get into this? And unlike the sort of musical chairs that happens with Warner Brothers every 18 months or whatever, Sony just doubled down and stuck with it. But it's a company that has this axe swinging over its head for all of the 90s of just regret. And the regret is combated with just go huge,

try to prove them wrong. I mean, at this time, don't they make Wild Wild West? Wild Wild West is Warner Brothers and that's 99. Oh, oh, okay. You're just thinking of the fact that John Peters is involved with that movie and he crowbarred an iron spider. When Peters leaves Sony, which is part of this story, Wild Wild West becomes his big passion project along with Superman. Got it, that's what I'm thinking of an iron spider into it. When Peters leaves Sony, which is part of this story, Wild Wild West becomes his big passion project

along with Superman. That's what I'm thinking of. Got it. At a certain point, Jurassic Park gets put on the schedule for a week before this film, you know, it's put on for June 11th, this film's supposed to come out June 18th. Schwarzenegger says, we can't move the movie

because it will look like it's in trouble. Talking about timeline, from the moment McTiernan is hired, it is nine months until the set in stone release date. From the moment they start filming, it is seven months. This film wraps principal photography one month before it is released. The whole time, there are a couple things. They're like, first of all, if we move back,

it shows that we're scared, it will create bad press that we can't combat. A problem they end up not circumventing at all, right? If we move back, it shows that we're scared. It will create bad press that we can't combat a problem. They end up not circumventing at all. Right. At one point, Zach Penn called Canton at Columbia and said, I am credited on lot less action. It's my idea.

I am more excited to see Jurassic park. And I literally invented the other movie. Like, don't you think you should move it? But they're just like, no, like Jurassic has been in the works for longer. Like it's, they're jumping in and going like, we're gonna get there and we're gonna beat them. A little similar to them not moving Mission Impossible off of Barbenheimer.

Yes. You know, Barbenheimer is another behemoth on the horizon that they are like, oh, wait a minute, we can't move this date. We can do this. And then I think that Mission Impossible, Dead Reckoning, part one, suffers as a result. You know, I'm thinking about this too, about Jurassic Park.

Jurassic Park is doing what this movie wants to do too. It's a big, a kind of adult action movie. But it's for everybody. With kids. Yes. And it's like, and, but it gives you both feelings. It's like, as a kid, you're like, oh my gosh, I wish I was there.

And as an adult, you're like, I'm enjoying this movie as a full-on, you know, like it, it's doing that. It's awe and wonder and it's thrills and chills. Yeah. Yeah. But not holding back. It is to me, like, it's jaws for everyone, you know? And I do think it's interesting that that,

that this is like in the world. So now you're really even competing against totally what else is coming out. These are the movies that are the same. Imagine if you went into a movie. Imagine if you got to be with dinosaurs. You're going into these fully fictional worlds. And there's a quote in the dossier,

I think from someone who worked at Sony, when they were talking about the idea of pushing it back and they said every week you push it back is gonna take 10 million off the final gross because they were thinking this needs to come out in June and play the entire summer if we push It back we have less summer less kids in schools. It has to come out early It's not now. I think the calculation people make is like look we get two weeks Yeah, so who cares right like it after two weeks, which is actually the wrong calculation even now, but especially then it is David yes John McLean likes to die hard. Okay. Does he like to die hard or does is it hard for him to die? Actually, he's too good at living. Yeah, that's sort of his issue, right? That's true His Achilles heel is he's too good at living. That's sort of his issue, right?

That's true. His Achilles heel is he is too good at staying alive. Okay. Killing him is hard. I feel like you should arrive at a point. You know what is hard though? Making several meals a day. That's true.

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That's code check50 at factor meals.com slash check 50 to get 50% off. Bye bye. The film held a preview screening that is one of the most notorious bad test screenings of all time. They showed the film Schwarzenegger says in the roughest form I've ever seen a movie screened. There was- It was basically like me doing ADR, like the voices. There was a temporary dub.

The stars had not done their own ADR yet. You couldn't hear the dialogue. The score was a temp score, obviously. The special effects were unfinished. The screening went so badly that Mark Canton, the head of Sony, had the test scores destroyed, which is hilarious. He truly burned them. Right. And Schwarzenegger claims that like, there were a few people who did enjoy it, but the buzz of just this test screening is

so horrible that as Jason says, once the movie's arriving and they went off and they did some reshoots basically up to like a week before the movie comes out, but the movie's just arriving with the worst buzz. Now who's one person who contributed to this bad buzz? Jeffrey Wells, the Voldemort of the film blogging world. I don't know if you guys know Jeff Wells, who still exists. And will send us angry emails

when we talk about him on the podcast. Really? Yep. Back in the day worked at EW, or he was a freelancer, but he wrote an article for the LA Times, right? He maybe works for EW later. Alleging that a secret screening, beyond this terrible screening had been held

that was a complete disaster, Columbia fights back, you know, says you have to take this article down. Wells tries to track down the sources, couldn't find any, and decides that he may have actually made it up and they do have to retract the article. My brother, who is hard to pin down on the phone, called me like maybe Christmas Eve and I was like, why is he calling and He went hey, I just I just watched Munich for the first time I realized I'd never seen Munich I should maybe watch Munich and I went okay And he went and then I listened to your episode and like half the episode is you guys sharing Jeff Wells stories? And I was like, yeah, and he was like, can you just tell me some of the Jeff Wells stories again?

And my brother and I had this phone conversation You mean they're good. The hat. That was me just, emotionally, they have a cowboy hat, the pocket cake. I hit all the big ones. Look. I love them.

Here's some other things in this. We just have to mention this. Yeah. The World Trade Center was bombed February 26th, 1993. Yes. Three days later, Columbia floated a five-story inflatable balloon in Times Square that displayed Schwarzenegger holding a gun and three sticks of dynamite.

Basically the one that's in the movie. In their defense, they said, it's too bad, but we had planned to be here for months. Too bad. Too bad. Too bad. So sad. The other infamous marketing thing for this movie, part of like Schwarzenegger is it's got to be bigger.

We got to break records. We got to do something no one's ever done before. They announced this is going to be the first movie to be marketed in space. In space, they pay NASA $500,000 to put an ad onto a rocket. And if you look at the image of it, it's it's truly like a plaque. It's a plaque that just says last action hero coming summer 1993. That's just sort of like drilled, riveted onto the side of the rocket. Right. But then the launch got delayed.

The rocket wasn't going to go up until space, until two months after the movie came out, at which point it was conclusively a bomb. And NASA also realized that maybe they had a contract that prevented anyone else from marketing on a rocket. So there was like a huge press conference with Arnold pointing at the rocket and saying, look, it's drilled in here, the name last action hero, and then it never even happened.

You know, the film comes out and it does badly and we've been to sort of getting into why, but I do think we should discuss the, you know, the film itself now. So here's the thing that McTiernan says like minute one of the commentary that he blames himself for. He says, the turnaround, this movie was really tough. We never should have agreed to all this sort of stuff, right? The movie basically comes out a month after its film, after wraps. The only way we were able to make that release is that I basically shoot for the edit.

I don't shoot coverage. I structure my shots and my sequencing and my scenes in a way where you can basically just take the film out of the camera, cut it end to end, and it works. So, like, that was helpful in the fact that we were able to turn the movie around that fast. It also creates a problem, and I want to make it very clear,

this is me blaming myself and not the editors, is what he keeps saying, that because I shoot that way, there is really no room to modify the film. Yeah, they couldn't cut around it. Okay, now let me tell ya, I worked on a movie with Larry Charles. Legendary, Seinfeld writer, director.

Dixie musical, Borap. Borap, yeah. I did as well on The Dictator. Yes, yes, that's right. Lovely guy. Wonderful, wonderful. I know that he had felt that in the past, people had taken the edit away from him, right?

And so the movie that I shot with him, he was like, I am only shooting what I would put in the movie. Right, no coverage. And it is, yeah. And it becomes, like, it's the most aggressive thing that you can do because you have to be so sure that you are gonna get, like, you don't want,

you don't need anything else. And this is a movie that seemingly has none of that foresight because it's, like, the train is running and people, you know, like the minute it goes. And that's where I feel like, as much as I don't even believe in McTiernan as this guy, like he continually shoots himself in the foot multiple times.

And it says, and that is really, like that is really the biggest problem is like these, these things that he puts in front of himself, he's not a director who should have these options. No, it's fascinating because it's like, this is from the beginning as it's the establishment of the Jack Slater three, the cops outside the roof, right? And you're just like, this is a fine enough sequence. And he's like, I already fucked this up.

I haven't seen this movie in 20 years. I'm immediately recognizing what I fucked up. And he's like, look, I like to like hit multiple story beats in one shot. I prefer to not edit unless you need to to move the camera from one place to another to connect to ideas, hook them together in your mind. This was they hand me the script and I shot every single thing as it was written. In my previous movies, you're fighting against schedule, you're fighting against budget. And in that pressure, I go, what's the more elegant way of making this information more concise, getting this story beat across in a simpler way,

limiting the amount of shots. And I get to a point where everything becomes the cleanest version of itself. This was me just doing everything. They provided everything for me and I took all of it. And then you get to a point where there's no way to cut the sequence down Because I didn't spend the time in development in production to make it more clever then We were stuck with everything I shot the way that I shot it And I also don't think and I don't know maybe he speaks to it I don't think he feels comfortable in the more comedic and thus

Satirical points and elements and so so it ends up in this middle ground where it's neither nor. It's not a scathing funny satire. It doesn't, you know, imagine if this is a, I mean, it's never, I don't know. It wasn't intended this way, but if this is a Zucker Brothers level, you know, movie of jokes, then...

Hot shots. Oh, incredible, you know? But even less that, even just leaning into what is comedically strong about some of these setups, he seems more interested in doing the action movie versions of those scenes, you know? I think he's just scared. I don't even think he says more interested in the action.

I think he doesn't trust himself. He's scared to really go for it. Well, because, and this goes back to the idea that you can't parody yourself because you don't have enough perspective on it. Like he could probably give Schwarzenegger notes on how to do a performance that was maybe a little bit more heightened or whatever.

But like, you know, what he'd have to be doing to make that scene good is know how he would shoot it and then shoot the heightened version of it. It's almost like as a director, he'd have to do it twice. We're also seemingly not interested in interrogating the story of Daniel, one of grief and loss and trauma and not being, and using the movies to get through these, these life's hurdles, using the movies

and the lessons learned inside of them, not just escapism, but what are the lessons learned from inside of these movies that make him able to move through his grief and get to a better, more emotionally revealing, a revelatory place. And that movie, the movie's not interested in that either. By the way, I thought they missed a giant,

beautiful ending of this movie. I don't know if you guys thought this as well. Mercedes Ruhl saying, never tell me. Never tell, I'll be so high on Demerol. It's revealed that his son, I mean this is a crazy fucking thing, his son is killed by the Ripper. The Jack Slater's son is killed by the Ripper. And the Jack Slater character's son.

Right. Yes. Which we don't see because Robert Prosky falls asleep, so Danny doesn't see the end of the movie until that's revealed to us like an hour in. In like a flashback of Schwarzenegger, of Jack Slaters. But so anyway, and then he hears about it from the daughter. All I thought was what a beautiful ending

this movie could have is if when they're bringing him into the theater at the end, when he's bleeding out, he's dying, you know, they're gonna get him back in the movie, we don't have Jack Slater four, we only have Jack Slater three, and he could go back in the movie and save his son. Yeah. Like that to me felt like, but no.

It was right there, it's hanging there. Daniel could help save the son. There's also a, Daniel could help like, help his own healing if he participated in healing the relationship between Slater and his son. You know, like there's something inside of that, like that is lost, you know, and, or, but also Slater and Daniel never bond

over their shared loss. You know, Arnold's character is almost too, even when they enter into the real world, too much a part of the narrative, the fictional world. He's not interested in investigating the emotional reality of this character. It is also just fascinating that Danny has a dead father, right? Jack Slater has a dead son,

and this movie primarily positions them as best friends. Yeah. Like, for how much both of these characters are dealing with huge loss and the absence of these figures in their lives, they don't really play it as a father-son dynamic, I would argue. I like that. Everything you guys are describing is a heartwarming film, but I kind of like that this isn't like that at all.

I agree with you. It's like a weird freak movie. Yes, right. So to your point, and Daniel even says it in the movie, he says, we're the perfect buddy cop. Yeah, right. We're a buddy cop movie or whatever. It's written as a two-hander like lethal weapon

or something like that. But it's not executing that successfully for me. No, he's a sidekick. The kid is a sidekick. Cause this kid doesn't really do much in the movie universe. He's just there to be like, this is a trope and like, you know, blah, blah, blah.

And then he does some crane stuff. Once again, I think this kid's gotten too much shit for too long. I think he's totally fine in this movie. I like him. I think he's fine. I've seen, like I said, I've watched a lot of these movies with my kid.

This kid is more capable than most. I don't think he's incredibly additive, but I don't think he's detracting from anything. No, I also do think if the movie is going to sell, what Jason, you're saying it's trying to put forward is like at a certain point they really are achieving full rigs and murder together, right? You want this kid to be a little more streetwise, have a little more edge.

Yes! Right? The kid is, the kid, for me, the kid is too much, spends too much of the movie being like, whoa, we're in the scene where this happens. Or whoa, you know what's about to happen is this. You know what I, it's, it's, it's, the kid is reacting too much to being in a movie rather than then executing from the position of,

it's like lucid dreaming. Once you realize you're dreaming, you can control the dream. And the kid never starts to control the elements of the movie. He's always reactive in a way that I was like, oh, wait, no, be more proactive here because you have now the power. You know, you're the only person here who knows they're in a movie. He has the default mode of gee whiz in a movie that does set up such a compelling like this

kid's life sucks. He is trapped in Pre-Giuliani, New York. You know, like the scariest place in the history of cinema. He's like a last-dream kid who lives on Times Square, it seems. Right, and I do think the introduction is really evocative of like, start with Jack Slater 3, right? Then the movie breaks down, he goes and knocks on Prostky's door. Prostky's his one friend, basically.

And then he goes home and it's like every fucking day you do this. You're watching this, you think he's watching a movie at night. No, he's skipping school. It's the middle of the day. He leaves the doors of this great old movie palace that's now decrepit and caked in graffiti. And he's on the toughest streets of Times Square. He's getting in trouble. He goes home, his mom chews him out, and then a robber comes in and tries to mug him.

This kid lives in a horrible sort of hellscape. The robber scene is a hat on a hat, in my opinion. I was almost like, are we already in the movie? I was actually confused by that. Yes. But his G-Wiz... Perseus rules good, though. His G-Wiz nature when he's watching the movie

and so invested in it becomes really sad the deeper you go into his life and you're like, this kid is just trying to ignore everything in his reality. Well, and I guess, I mean, the other thing that I would argue is, and look, you know, I think that the movie does a lot of things. There's a lot of, like, almost good ideas here as far as, like like structure and plot,

but like I'm not begging for it, but does the character have an arc at all? The kid, like what's his arc? I don't even know what his arc is. Yeah, it's like- No, his arc isn't as cool I'm in a movie. But I mean like his story is, my dad is dead.

Like I'm alone. My mom is like struggling to keep us afloat. Like I'm a latchkey kid in like one of the most dangerous environments. Surrounded by crime. But he loves them and I get it. He loves the movies. I love this as a setup.

I love that he gets to go inside the movie, but none of what is his, Danny's personal issues are resolved by the events of him being in Jack Slater 4. No, he just gets really invested in trying to resolve Jack Slater's problems. Yes. It feels like a further deflection of like, I don't want to deal with my own shit.

So is he trying to save his father? Is he trying to like, is this a futile effort to save the father that he couldn't save when his dad died? I mean, these are all fair points. I don't, I'm sort of like Zach Cherry on the yesterday episode where I'm like, I don't really care. You're not interested.

You're in it, you're willing to skate along. I hear that note and I'm like, that's fine. But at the end of the movie is basically, yes, Jack Slater gains some sort of self-awareness, returns to his world where he will now function slightly more normally. Like a self-aware movie star, that's not fun either. Like that's like super stupid.

Right, but like that's what I like. I like that the ending is just like anyway like yeah the laws of reality have been thrown off their axis. Well, but basically the only, the character who has growth and an arc is the character who is a fictional character in the movie. Is Benedict. And Slater. The real people don't benefit from the events of the movie at all. No, Mercedes Ruhl says, don't tell me what happened.

Yes, yes. I just think, I agree with David where like, it's so easy to look at this movie, and I think this is how I watched it when I was 14 or 15, when I was sort of like Danny age and like looking for The plot holes and like this doesn't tie together Why don't they pay this off in this kind of way and now I watch it and I'm like there's something kind of cynically Fascinating about this movie being like this kid lives in hell He gets sucked into its own kind of hellish world, right this absurd nihilistic

over-the-top sort of violence, glorifying fantasia that represents like the last stages of like excess 90s filmmaking before it's about to explode. Like this type of movie is at a point in 1993, very similar to like what we just watched happen with the superhero movie in 2023. Yeah, what's a modern version of this movie that I like a lot. Tell me.

Ready Player One. Well, I disagree with you strongly. Yeah. But that similar thing of like- I just, wait, do you really like it a lot? That film is fantastic. And I think it is about the same kind of thing of this kid being like,

I live inside all my favorite pop culture. Isn't this great? And Steven Spielberg's like, this is, this is a hell. This is hell. Yeah. And I created hell and I think McTiernan, right? There's a world where McTiernan is like, could do that of the sort of like, yeah, I kind of am, I'm part of the problem, right? Yeah. But this movie is sort of joking about that, but right, doesn't quite lean into it enough. I think that's what he's unknowingly doing. And I also think what's interesting about this movie is it rep,

it's like, here are two hells, right? This kid lives in hell and he wants to escape to the movies and that's a different type of hell. And the end of the movie is both of them going back to their places and nothing is solved. But like Pleasantville is like that. Which is the same sort of vibe of like these people have seemed to have kind of like a shitty life.

Jane Caxamere being the Mercedes rule of Pleasantville. And then when they exit Pleasantville, just Toby, he's like, what lesson has he learned? It's like, yeah, well Pleasantville isn't so great. Anyway, I guess I'll just continue to live this shitty life but with that perspective. My mom's crying in the kitchen. And I'm like, I like that. Yeah. Anyway, I guess I'll just continue to live this shitty life, but with that perspective. My mom's crying in the kitchen. And I'm like, I like that. Yeah.

I think, you know, David, to your point, like, I like this movie. I like it a lot. I think it's really smart. I think it's really funny. I think there's a lot of ways it could have been great. I think there's a lot of things that don't make sense that I don't mind in the moment. I think when you really start, like... I'm a big believer of like if you if it pulls off the magic trick while you're watching it

You have to accept that it worked on some level right because it's sort of like, you know, yes It's easy to sit back away. Why didn't they use a phone? Why did they go over here? What you know, but if like I enjoyed like I watch that movie I was didn't know what I was gonna get and I I will tell you, the only thing that was weird for me was watching this movie and saying to my kids, like when they're watching the bad guy, Benedict, in the real world of New York, and they're like, well, wait, what's happening?

I'm like, oh, he realizes that bad guys, that in the real world, people get killed and no one comes and like, it like, it was a really dark... Like, that thing is dark. And that's what we're talking about. The tonal choices in this movie are all over the board. That's a dark, heady concept to throw in there, to be like, oh, yeah, in our world,

people get killed all the time and no one gives a shit. It's also like, it's very similar to when Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken realizes that the real world is run by men. I thought about Barbie a lot while watching this movie again. Yes. And I was like, oh, that's what this is, but the movie is not interested in having any of the characters interrogate this reality

the way that Ken, like the events then, Ken going back and sharing that information that like... Barbie is a better constructed film than this. Sure. Yes. Yeah. Wouldn't it have been cool for them to go back into the movie and start monkeying with the movie's story? Yes. You know what I mean? Like a weird 12 act movie, as we said,

the movie's kind of hung around Danny as a character, but doesn't really give him an arc. It's sort of the fascinating thing that Barbie does is that it opens in the fake world. It takes a long time to get to the real world. Returns to the fake world. And yeah, and America Ferrera is the Danny character, but she's very much a supporting character. She's not the viewpoint character of the movie. She kind of is.

She's introduced late though. No, I know. She has true nostalgia for it. Yeah. is not the viewpoint character of the movie. She kind of is. She's introduced late though. No, I know, I know. She has true nostalgia for it. Yeah. You know, like almost it's as if, what if Danny was older? Right.

Danny was right now. And had outgrown these kind of movies. I used to love those movies. Yeah. He loved Jack Slater when he was a teenager, but now he's a little older and he's a little out of that. What's that?

Like if from the imagination. From the imagination of John Krasinski. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, yes. And so, then he's got to like go back, like the daughter in America for Our, his daughter. That's an interesting version of the story tale, but he's too excited to be in the movie,

shooting guns and being the sidekick to his favorite guy, that it doesn't seem to address or engage with any of the stuff that is maybe why he's having this adventure, why he's on this, what is driving this emotional odyssey? You know? Paul, I know your book's about to come out, and this is stuff that I assume

is litigating your book to some degree, but I, watching this movie and knowing we were going to talk to you about it, kept thinking of your stories of recording movies off the TV, onto cassette tapes and obsessively re-listening to them, right? And it's like when you tell those sorts of stories about your childhood and about your relationship to pop culture, it's always from this adult vantage point of I now look back and recognize how sad this was or how much this was me trying to hide from something. And there's fascinating about Danny being a kid who despite the fact that he's stuck in terrible circumstances does not actually seem like depressed or scared, right?

He's kind of just accepted his lot in life and then just goes like, yeah, and I like watching movies a lot. There's an inability for this character to analyze his position at all, what his life actually is, or why he's running away to something else. I would argue because this movie was made

by a lot of men that would probably be terrible fathers. Like that have never thought about like what a child. He's like, yeah, he's a kid, a kid. We don't see him in school. We don't see him with his friends. We don't see him in school. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, sorry.

See the one class. We see him watching a movie in school. Imagining a cooler movie. Yes, exactly. So what I mean to say is like, we don't get a sense of, like, his actual life beyond watching movies either in... His only friend is Robert Prosky.

He seems to go to the theater seven times a day. If my friend was Robert Prosky, I would not need another friend. Again, this... If you look through the list of actors in this, everybody is, I mean, Art Carney, Robert Prosky, like, it is a murderer's row. Anthony Quinn of incredible actors. The gag of Art Carney being his second cousin and the fact that they keep bringing it up is very funny. Art Carney, F. Murray Abraham, Anthony Quinn.

They, of course, say killed Mozart in the film. Anthony Quinn's or the Greek himself. And there's a fourth Oscar winner in this, I'm forgetting. Plowright? Plowright's a. And there's a fourth Oscar winner in this, I'm forgetting. Plowright? Plowright's a nominee, Stone's a nominee. Oh yeah, no, no, yeah, yeah, Queen of course has an Oscar. McKellen's a nominee. McKellen's a nominee, rude.

McKellen's great in this movie, by the way. McKellen is such a great reveal too. Frank McCray, Frank McCray, incredible. He's so funny. As the police lieutenant. Tom Noonan, incredible. Like, these are just all some of the great. Tina Turner.

Amazing. Tina Turner, fantastic. Chevy Chase, thrilled that he got cut out of this. It was great to see him just, whatever he did did not work, and they gave more screen time to Jim Belushi, which was hilarious to me. My wife was like, why would McKellen do this? And I was like, he was not famous.

Like, obviously he's a very famous British theater actor at the time. But yeah, McKellen would give you five minutes. This is the same year as I'll do anything or a year after or a year before. You know, oh, Mercedes-Rome, Mercedes-Rome is the fourth winner. Oh, Mercedes-Rome has an Academy one. It's Carney. Incredible. This is her follow-up to Maraschall.

Yes. These are people coming in with like big cash and Oscar paydays, and you guys debating is this favors or is this money? I think the excess of this movie is that it's both. It's that they're calling in favors and then paying those favors a tremendous amount of money. Yeah, because I think it's very clear. This is not a like for the love of the game movie. This is we're blowing it out. We're doing it all. I think looking at what I've read here,

that Schwarzenegger bullied some people to be in this movie. And those people are Robert Patrick to reprise his character of the T-1000. I think that that is John Claude Van Dam. I think anyone who's in that premiere is Schwarzenegger going, you are doing this because I need you to do it. And even Sharon Stone, to a certain extent,

she doesn't need to be there. She's not getting a payday. These are people who are not getting a payday. These are people who are simply being shoved in to be a fan. The Stallone gag is the best version of this kind of cameo, where you don't even need him to participate.

You just need him to like sign off on it. Some of the cameos in the red carpet are perfectly fine. And some of them like Robert Patrick, you're kind of like, we already got it. But like it's the best part of the red carpet sequence is Schwarzenegger and Shriver as themselves. Like that is actually funny. Shriver being like, do not fucking plug Planet Hollywood.

It is so tacky. And Schwarzenegger being like, it's a great opportunity. Like come on, cameras are here. Can I tell you my favorite cameo in the whole movie and the one that really like, like got me, Humphrey Bogart. That was such a funny joke. Another Oscar winner? Another Oscar winner.

And that was like, wow, that they pulled that off? Yeah. Like, and that's like kind of the fun thing about this movie. Like there are these jokes that are deep. The cat is funny like that. There are these like moments where like, oh they do some.

Oh, the animated cat? Yeah. Great. They do these things where they go in and then like it's. And then it keeps coming back. The cat returns. It's DeVito is the cat. It's DeVito as Whispers. And the cat keeps coming back at like the very end when he's been shot and he's like,

they got Jack! You know, I'm like, great. But just another example of the joke of a cartoon cat. If this were a real movie, who would voice it? Dan DeVito. We're paying DeVito. That's actually good. But there are jokes like the cat, Hamlet, Ian McKellen as the death from the seventh seal emerging out. Of course, Bogus Journey had also done that joke.

But, you know, where you're like, this is for a highbrow audience almost. Like, this is stinky humor. And then there are other jokes like a man named Tony the Fart falls into the Libraea Tar Pits and dies as an exploding fart bubble. Yes. But now here's the thing. You base your third act on an Ingmar Bergman villain

and then an $80 million blockbuster. That's fucking nuts. Like that, like while funny, I like that. Well, what are we doing here? I mean, I like it too, but it Like that, like while funny. I'm gonna give you a pass. Yeah. I like that. That's like, well, what are we doing here? I mean, I like it too, but it's like, like. I can just only imagine the flat, mirthless atmosphere at say, the premiere of this film. Where people are like, oh, oh, okay.

Oh, the seventh seal, right. Yeah, yeah. Like, like just like the complete nonpluss. Also, I mean, Paul, you said third act. McKellen as Death from the Seventh Seal is basically introduced in the 11th out of 12 acts of this movie. I mean, it's a film with five acts

in that there is a three act film inside the film. There's a three act Jack Slater full- Like he gets sucked into a three act film. Right. And before that, we basically see this, you know, prologue act of him alone. inside the film. There's a three act Jack Slater- Like he gets sucked into a three act film. And before that we basically see this, you know, prologue act of him alone. And then the final act is very long. You know, like you think like, oh, they'll be out

and about for 10 minutes. And it's like half an hour? And even when they get to the standoff with the Ripper, you're like, well, this is the Denuman of the movie. And you're like, no, death has not entered yet. And also dance is still alive. Correct. Yeah, no, there's all kinds of- Well,, this is the denouement of the movie, and you're like, no, death has not entered yet. And also, dance is still alive. Correct. Yeah, no, there's all kinds of...

Well, because dance is the bad guy. Dance is the biggest bad, you know, who can travel back and forth through reality and fiction. Well, he has the magic ticket, Jason. I mean, obviously, like, that's established. Thank God there's a magic ticket. The rules of the magic ticket are really clear and obvious, and it totally makes sense how it works.

He should have gotten the T-1000 from Stallone's Terminator 2. I mean, that's what we should have... We should have had a little bit of a... Like, do some fun stuff with that. I mean, you know we pull out the Ripper, but like, you also, you can't do a thing where you talk about Hannibal Lecter, Dracula, Freddy Krueger, all these people, and then you go like, we're not gonna show any of those.

It is astounding for how big this movie was and how much they said, let's do everything, that they don't do that at the end. And part of it's, we're watching this from the vantage point of like, we have seen Wreck-It Ralph and Lego Batman and Ready Player One. Yeah, and we dare do that until Space Jam, a new legacy.

Space Jam, a new legacy, of course. Yeah, of course. But you are expecting him to, yes, assemble the dream team. But I mean, but then why call attention to it? Why go like, oh my gosh, I just got out of the room over here with Freddy Krueger. Right, right. You're not gonna see that.

Smiling all the time. You can't have him circling movies in the paper that look like, oh, absolutely. And we are all over the place, but right, when Danse does the monologue of like, I'm gonna go get Hannibal Lecter, I do start doing the thing of like, do those movies air within his movie?

Right, because Jack Slater doesn't know about Amadeus. No, but that's sort of possible. He hasn't seen Terminator 2. But he might have seen, no, he has seen Terminator 2. Jack Slater has? With Stallone. Dracula. Dracula. But he doesn't recognize Patrick. No.

So in that reality, does someone else play the T1000 as well? And there is, there is Dracula in the Jack Slater world because in blockbuster, it's there. But like, when Charles Dance is like, right, I'm going to get all these guys. I'm like, has he caught up on pop culture in the, you know, 40 minutes since he exited his fictional universe or is he referencing the mirror version pop culture of his fictional universe? Instead, he should have just been like, I'm going to shoot you kid. You know, like I think, I think at that point, maybe let's drop it.

Like does Charles dance say like, you know, Hannibal Lector famously played by Michael Gambon. But here's the other thing that I think about. And I just realized that as you said it, they're trying to have their cake and needed to, by also creating a Wreck-It Ralph, like Wreck-It Ralph at night, they all gather together. This is a point I wanna make, thank you Paul. And the police station- It's like when people leave, stop watching the movie,

does the movie just carry on and then they just chill out? Right, and then the idea being like, that police station is every movie. That's not the Jack Slater police station. Cause you have people that look like they're in Demolition Man. You have people, you have a cartoon cat. You have, like cartoon cat doesn't feel tonally

like in the Jack Slater movie, even though he says he's in a Jack Slater movie. But like, it's that same thing. It's like- This is a fair point. But like make it clear to us that the cat is in a Roger Rabbit or a movie, a cool world movie that they're doing over there.

Like there's one police precinct in movie world where all police are disfellows. You guys are asking a fundamental question, which is this film argues, presupposes, that he has been sucked into, quote unquote, Jack Slater 4. Right, and everything we're seeing is part of Jack Slater 4.

Right, but if that were true, Jack Slater for would be the most dysfunctional film ever created. And what has actually happened is right. He's been sucked into quote, quote, movie world. But then the rules later are clear that like dance has to go find a film print of a different movie if he wants to enter that movie, right? He has to get the fucking canister if he wants to enter that. It's Krasky at gunpoint. It would be funnier if he could then drive to Sony Pictures Classics World

and there it's like a Merchant Ivory film and then he could drive to, but anyway. I mean, also, if you wanna talk about logic here too, it's like a movie ticket falls in front of a theater that then activates one of the characters in that movie who is arguably a couple hundred feet away from that ticket to exit the screen. I mean, that to me, I'm like, I'm here,

I'm on for the ride, but that's also lazy as shit. I hope somebody got fired for that blunder. Yes, yes, yes. David? Yes. You like to treat yourself, right? Absolutely. I feel like you're the one friend in our friend group, Blank Check Productions that likes to treat yourself.

Gotta do it. Here's some things I know about you. You love to get a pedicure and opt for the extra 10 minute foot massage with green tea infused lotion. I mean, that's very specific, but sure. You refuse to make coffee at home because that fancy coffee shop is right downstairs, the one that serves everything on pure ivory.

Yeah, that's me. You opt for that extra legroom seat on the plane because your vacation starts now. I do that also because I'm quite tall. Okay, well that's a humble brag. You always buy double at a sale because it's actually like saving money. I'm gonna tell you, I don't think I've ever done that.

I got you dead to write. That's really odd. I named four things that you specifically do, none of which are prompts from ad copy. Never. Well David, if you treat yourself to the top options with everything in life, why settle when finding a doctor? It is my health.

Why is that when you settle? That's a good point. For less. I should go for the best. Don't you want the extra leg that when you settle? That's a good point. For less. I should go for the best. Don't you want the extra leg room of medical care? Well, I just don't know where to look, so I just kind of wing it. Creak.

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I was thinking Wreck-It Ralph as well while watching this because Wreck-It Ralph is such a good example of like the right amount of answers in a world that is silly and just like creates the pants for you of, okay, the games are where they live, that's their job. If the kids stop playing them, they go home, right? At night, they go home. That's just Toy Story.

Well, no, but hold on, hold on. Hold on, David. Because I made the exact same comparison point with the Precinct, right? Wreck-It Ralph has the thing that is the surge protector. Yes, they live inside the surge protector. That all the games are plugged into. No, they don't live there. Well, they can go there to commune, yes.

That's the place they can all go in the middle. Right, and go to their other games. They all live in their separate games, but there's this central hub that they can all go to. As you said, that is not what the Precinct is in this movie. In construction, we're watching this as if this were a scene in Jack Slater 4, but obviously the movie is being warped by Danny being in it.

There are different characters in this from other films we've seen and from fake, made-up movies. When Danny calls out, like, can you see this is a movie? There's a cartoon cat there. Jack Slater goes, yeah, he should be here. He's what he said. He was only on Probation for four weeks or whatever. There's some joke right? I mean you're just gonna be like I wrote the line I don't remember you did take a pass at this movie. They did pay you one million Seven-year-old David that cat is one of the best men I've got right it says that says the lieutenant Which proves to be true by the way the cat is pretty good great Yeah, Whiskers is good

But like that character the McCray character is Jack Slater's lieutenant who Danny recognizes from those movies Whiskers is not from the Jack Slater movies, but both of those Jack Slater characters acknowledge it when I was 14 or 15 I'm watching this like Danny being like this is what you're talking about. What are the rules? Why can't you make some basic? being like, this is what you're talking about, what are the rules? Why can't you make some basic Rick Routh type logic leap to understand which characters exist? And what does growing up Griffin Newman

host the blank check say? I was like, this is fun. Yeah, here's the- This is fun and silly and I like it and I wanna live in this precinct. Yes, I love that precinct. I agree. When I was a kid, I think what happened to me and why I wanted to walk out of this movie,

why I did walk out of this movie is- Marked all the way out. Was because I didn't understand what it was going for. It felt to me like, I think I was an unsophisticated audience member. I didn't get, like I was like, this cat is dumb. Not, oh, this is making fun of this type of, yes. Dumb, poochy-esque, you know, whatever, right, yeah. This, I hated the head of the police precinct,

the lead cop who I think is- The smoke coming out of his ears, which is a true Zucker brother. Frank McCray, of course, who is- Yes, yes, Frank McCray. Basically plays this character in 48 hours, among other things. Yes, yeah.

And that to me, and I think maybe that's, my sensibility as a kid was, I get hot shots, those are jokes, I get airplane, top secret. This walked a line that was a little bit more, a little harder to parse. I think it's playing it real. I think because it's unsuccessful. I think because it's neither nor.

It's not, that's a failing of the movie, it's not a failing of you, the audience, in my opinion. No, this is an absolute neither fish nor foul movie. And it's neither fish nor foul nor rodent nor insect. What do you also argue? Like it's six things. Can I argue that this is just the Neanderthal version of Wreck-It Ralph?

Like this is the necessary evolutionary step to these later movies that are then like, yeah, here are the very clear rules of our universe that are then like, yeah, here are the very clear rules of our universe where I'm like, I like rules. Like I've talked about that, right? Like I love a good world building. Like that's fine. But also sometimes it can feel a little clean. Yes. And the messiness of this movie, is it because they had, you know, basically like two to three days to, you know, cast direct, right? Shoot,

you know, like, yeah, maybe,, but I kinda like the messiness. But this is why I like Barbie. Barbie, I don't understand a lot about how Barbie works. I don't get it. I like that Barbie is messy. But I love it. Yes, Barbie also has the same ending where it's like, well, what are you gonna do now, Barbie, now that you are imbued with knowledge

of worlds beyond this? She's like, I don't know. And you're like, okay, cool, that's fine. I think it is truly an under-discussed aspect of why people found Barbie so refreshing is that it does not spend 45 minutes explaining how they move back and forth between the worlds. Just go for the ride.

What they do give you is a bit. You have to get in the car to get on a boat, to get on a rocket, to get... It's a joke, and the joke bit services multiple trips back and forth to Barbie World. This movie is uninterested in Danny's experience being different inside the movie than out. Arnold, his opinion is not changed

by being in the real world or not. Like, there is no, because there's no rules, when they break them, it's not clear what is at stake. There is no, oh no, Doc, I'm disappearing from the picture, a la Marty McFly. There is no stakes, there is no ticking clock, there is no, we're not in the beats of the action movies such that we're trapped in them.

No, and the movie is kind of like poorly sketched out, I would say. Beyond just he needs to get revenge for his favorite second cousin. Yeah, but that's a good joke. It's a great joke. But I'd also argue, I think where the movie actually makes a little bit of a misstep as well is the one moment that,

I think what Barbie recognizes in Barbie is like the world around her. And I don't think that Jack Slater, that's a part where I'm like, oh, Schwarzenegger doesn't go there in this movie. Like, yeah, he goes, oh, my hand hurts, but he still punches through the glass. Though he still pulls the guy out of the car. Like, he's not, like, it's,

I want the Superman 2 of it all. He rips a car door off. Yeah, I want the- In the real world. I want the Superman 2 of blood. Nothing. The blood. car door off in the real world. I want the Superman 2 of blood. Nothing. The blood. Yeah, like he couldn't be strong. Or when he shoots, he misses.

Or how about he realizes the existential dread of living in a world in which the bad guys often win and a world in which this boy's life is an absolute tragedy and a nightmare and that those are issues that should be addressed instead of like, well, just let the kid get the gun. And then we can work from there. Him staying up all night talking to Mercedes Ruehl

is fascinating. That's sort of like one dead end scene where Danny goes to sleep, wakes up, they're flirting, he's sort of like, ew, gross, cooties. And then Schwarzenegger is like, first of all, this is insane I never realized you could talk to a woman before And you start actually like interrogating the reality of his movie in an interesting way

Which is like every woman in his life is either a shrew Yeah, or a sex object or his like overly sexy daughter who he can't think of that way Who is a really funny, Bridget Wilson is a really funny gag. Yes. Like she is the most implausible creation in the universe. Very, very funny. And when she's like, ah, ah. I mean, she's driving the monster truck.

The Hummer, yeah, yes. I love that she's, that that's her character. So funny. By the way, why isn't it Bridget Wilson? Why does she have to have a fake name? Schwarzenegger should be Bridget Wilson, right? I mean, could we? Yeah, at this point, why not?

No, no, no. Come on. Because she's already... Oh yeah, she's quote unquote, Meredith Caprice or what, like, that's the actress. Has she already done Mortal Kombat at this point? Well no, Mortal Kombat's like two years later. This is her film acting debut. Wow.

Oh, okay, all right. So technically, it would have been a double joke because it's Meredith Caprice's film acting debut as well. She had been on the soap opera Santa Barbara before. Okay, fair enough. And of course she was Miss Teen USA. Yeah. And the fact that they have her all blonde

in a red bathing suit top as if she's in Baywatch. You know, I'm like, oh, they're just throwing cultural like things in here. They're just putting iconography in just to tether it to the time, not necessarily capitalize on that stuff. They're just like, you know this too. You recognize this.

This is the other thing I kind of love about this movie. And it's like, what we're all agreeing on that, like, the fundamental problem of this film is everyone's too close to it to parody the thing. They're parodying themselves, all this sort of stuff. The struggle they have, yes. Right, the thing you get only from hiring the people who made the stuff to try to make fun of themselves

is like with distance, this movie almost feels like, here's a comparison point. It almost feels like rules of the game, where it's a movie about like a type of society that's about to collapse. Sure. Right, where this is the movie that is like the embodiment of This certain kind of like 90 studio excess bloat that is starting to course correct right after this movie

This is one of the films that has such a big fallout in its bomb Yeah And and as we said like the press attacking this movie so hard within a couple years the internet will have the power to do This in a way that is so much harder to control attacking this movie so hard, within a couple years, the internet will have the power to do this in a way that is so much harder to control. It's not just one guy at the LA Times who's got an ax to grind with you. Now it's suddenly anyone on the internet

can talk shit about your movie and kill Batman and Robin. You know? And I'd say, this movie- And there comes to be a, like, the internet for many years in that early stage, like a site like Ain't It Cool News, is trafficking exclusively in rumors from test screenings and early drafts of scripts.

Previews and stuff like that. Exactly, stuff like that. That's like their bread and butter. Leaks from like PAs and secretaries, the people at the lowest rungs of the industry who are like shooting off leaks of things they overheard. This movie just ends up being, shooting off leaks, baby.

This movie just ends up being like this incredible soup of like everything that was insane and culture in the 90s, all crammed into one movie. Well, it also is the, you know, it's not commenting enough on, it is the kind of movie that these movies were now being criticized for doing, which was just being absolute gun festivals for little boys.

Right, and this weird thing of like- These movies are for kids now, explicit. Not just like, oh no, kids are watching Commando and Predator on TV all the time. It's like, oh no, this is for them. We need a surrogate for children in these movies, so that's what this is. It feels unsafe about this movie, which I like.

I like that too. When the kids running around with a gun, I really had it laid in the action sequence, even though you know, like this is a heightened tone, this is not a real place, I was like, they would never show that in a PG-13 film. You would never have a kid carrying a handgun. No way.

Here's a movie I'm going to shout out that, to me, has this movie but a better version of it. And it is Cloak and Dagger. I was going to bring that up. It is a real Jason pick. That is a real Jason pick, yes, right. 1984's with the... Bottled on vinegar syndrome.

They have a great redo of it. Dabney. I love Dabney Coleman. There is a very bad quality, but very good, interesting documentary on Amazon that is just over an hour of Dabney Coleman just telling stories. And it's fantastic.

I mean, I think that like, what we're saying is this movie, people have been trying to make movies like this. Like Cloak and Dagger, I think, was one that also wasn't a hit, but it was a hit for me because I watch it all the time on HBO, right? And then I started to look at Zach Penn and I go, oh, Zach Penn has done this multiple times.

Zach Penn did Ready Player One or wrote a version of it. He wrote Free Guy, right? He has gone back into this well of what would it be like if you are in or out of this world, like he is this kid. He is this 11 year old kid and he's, I think, continually trying to break what this is. I think that they have great versions of it, which is like Galaxy Quest. And I think that they have great versions of it, which is like Galaxy quest.

And I think that you have like middling versions of it that are, that we've all know what those are, but it's like, I feel like this movie, the fact that got made on this level is impressive. It's fun to watch because it's like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe they pulled all this crazy stuff off, but I also wonder if it's like, we appreciate it more now because it was bolder than anything that had come out at that point. Right?

It didn't try to go in these ways. Absolutely. And the thing it's mocking at the time this movie comes out, people were starting to get tired of, whereas now as David said, we have a fondness for it. Right. So we both like them mocking it and like seeing any representation of it before it disappeared.

And I just... Go ahead, Jason. Go ahead, David. Jason, you know what? I think you need to talk. David, I'm so mad at you. I demand that you talk. Our friendship hangs in the balance.

I just cannot imagine what horseshit it must've seemed like to a 30 something movie viewer that you would watch Jack Slater in a crumbling old, beautiful red velvet movie house. Like what absolute nonsense that is. Like a movie house where you should be watching Lawrence of Arabia. It's cinema parody. So Robert Prosky should be a kid. Let me, you know, let me show you some of the greats. You know, instead he's like yeah, you want me to run Jack Slater for you I'm gonna go into diabetic coma while that happens. Like there's the weird like nostalgia dressing for yes trash, but then I watched this and I'm like America was at its best when Jack Slater for was the kind of material being made

You bring up Galaxy Quest which is obviously like an incredible comparison point to this. Right. And as you said, the fact that Galaxy Quest is Tim Allen to the audience immediately communicates to them what movie they're watching. Oh, it's a sitcom comedy guy playing the Shatner rather than

picking a Shatner esque serious action star. And that sort of like tone setting helps people lock into what it is. Right. This movie starts with it feels like almost 10 minutes of straight Jack Slater three, which is like, okay, we get it, it's sort of like an intensified,

over the top version of Schwarzenegger, but also Schwarzenegger's movies are already pretty over the top, you can't heighten them too much. I just wanna just piggyback on this and say, it's also huge. Huge. The first 10 minutes are hundreds of extras. Yes, humongous.

Enormous set pieces, big, long tracking shots. Like, McTiernan is shooting the shit out of the Jack Slade movies. Beautiful, anamorphic lensing, like all of that. And then we get to the rooftop, and it's like, oh, this villain's really bad. He's kidnapped 15 children. One of them is Slater's son. And also the Ripper is not like a Hans Gruber.

The Ripper is like a fucking Freddy Krueger. He's a cartoon monster. So already for the audience, I think they're like, wait, what am I tracking this onto? Because like Rambo three wouldn't have a villain like the Ripper. What is this? Is this supposed to be like a badass cop movie, but the villain's supernatural? Am I supposed to think he looks normal? This thing with the kids more intense?

Everything's plus two 11 or whatever. This is a bad rewrite. Because this is like, Zach Penn said, I didn't, I'm not, that's not me. I didn't write that. Are you crazy? And I feel like that they, somebody along the way said, we need to give Jack Slater something.

And so they come up with, Oh, what if he couldn't save his own kid? Right. So now they're retconning that and, and, and then they do that opening. So it doesn't feel great. It doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel like Cobra. It doesn't feel like diehard. It doesn't feel like Rambo. It doesn't feel like anything. There's not a one-to-one.

And then it's interrupted by Prostke falling asleep, and then we go to the first exchange with the kid and Prostke, and McTiernan on the commentary is just like, I gotta say it, Prostke 100% nailed the tone of this movie. The movie that this sort of should have been, what I was trying to make that I didn't have the courage to do,

he's like, you watch it, and he's in the movie that is didn't have the courage to do. He's like, you watch it and he's in the movie that is the version that makes sense to audiences. And he's like, all, he just keeps saying, God, all of this dialogue is like nonsense and he's making it sound real. Look, he's one of the greats. I believe, what's the line I write out on the Thief episode? It's something, cause he was like a regional theater actor.

Yeah, right. He was like his first movie at the age of 50. Thief was thief was his first movie. Wow. OK, got it. Like he's just regarded as like one of the like greatest like productions of regional theater in America ever. Like, you know, one of my productions, I mean, like it just made him the man he is. He arrives in movies is this like fully formed Santa

Claus grown up. And by the time he's in, this is the same year as Mrs. Doubtfire. Sure. You know, by this time it's like Prosky, it's like almost lazy to cast him. There's nothing wrong with casting him. But yet he never phones it in and the ability, I would say the control this guy has over the dial of knowing exactly what movie he's in and how to serve that to the point that McTiernan's like, he got it better than I did. Everyone else should have been studying with Proski.

He actually has a sense of humor. I don't think that McTiernan has any, like he doesn't, like McTiernan didn't get the script, I feel like. Yes, and the devil thing you're saying makes ton of sense because you're like, in the Zak Penn draft originally, they were like, we don't wanna explain the magic, we don't wanna explain the rules.

Right, there's not even a ticket. It just happens. Then Columbia's like, we need to like come up with some internal rules for this. You get to this being a torture, you get to like whatever, right? Prosky is like saying gobbledygook that is like half sketched out.

And when he says it, you're like, I do believe in the magic of the movies and I believe in literal magic handed down by Harry Houdini that is retained in physical objects for decades. And there's so much of the movie that I'm like, having trouble being, getting access to and getting into. And part of it is what you're talking about, a lack of rules and a lack of understanding.

But all of this, Testament to Prosky. Testament to Prosky. And same thing with the Mercedes rules stuff. That feels like a, I think they only have two scenes together, it feels like an absolutely lived in single mother and her latchkey son. I get that world as much as I get the prosky and Danny world of the dilapidated movie theater and the this is the only place of solace, blah blah blah. But the rest of it, the fantasy world that we enter into, I can't get any, it's such

a mess to me that I can't get any, I can't get my feet under me. And that's what, and it does, it seems to, as it goes on for me, feel less and less fun because I want it to keep upsetting the apple cart and, and cart and providing new movement. But I felt trapped inside of the Jack Slater world. Let's say that, yes, the story of the movie within the movie is they kill his favorite second cousin. Now he wants revenge. Art Carney, who dies on screen for his final film role,

kind of does a good job. Like, again, it's kind of Arkhani being like, just lob me the meatball, you know, I'll knock it out. I also feel like he gets the tone too, like the way he dies, like that he's like, oh no, or whatever he says. You know, it's great. But then the plot of the movie, as it were, is just they need to get revenge,

and they're trying to track down what's his name. Tony Vivaldi, who is Anthony Quinn, like the quote-unquote antagonist, right? Mr. Benedict his sidekick with the you know, tattooed eye the glass eyes glass Glasses that change color and he's got a collection that you know, he's bad F. Murray Abraham is introduced as like Jack Slater's quote unquote friend. The kid keeps being like, this is, he doesn't,

I wish he almost said this is F. Murray Abraham in the 90s. This guy only plays films. Yeah, funny that he only calls him out. But he can always say he killed Mozart. Right, the Sally everything is funny, but it also like, you want him to be a savvy enough kid that he literally says, like,

look, this is F. Murray Abraham, he won an Oscar. You don't get him in for this part unless he turns out to be a villain at the end. He makes no sense as your friend. Exactly. His part is too small not to lead to a reverse in the third act. Yes, there should be more of that fun.

The movie ultimately feels to me, I think what is unsuccessful about it, which I think, and maybe this is, comes down to our age difference, is that I think the movie more successfully works for a younger audience. No question, it works for Paul's kids. It seems to be courting their love

for this kind of bombast and this style. This silliness, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Versus the people who have made in this era all of the movies that are being, you know, paid tribute to huge successes. This is not for the Rambo, Predator, I mean, Commando crowd. This is not for the Jean-Claude Van Damme,

you know, Charles Bronson crowd. And as we've been alluding to, the rise of VHS and the rise of cable television and more movies playing on TV means that in 1993, most kids the age of Danny have been sneakily watching the real grown-up R-rated versions of these movies for seven years. And that's why this movie exists. This movie only exists because kids have driven

the other movies into massive success. Long tail successes, but then those kids are also going, why would I watch the version of this that's made for me? I like the thrill of watching the one that I shouldn't be watching. But I think that like, this is again. Your kids don't have that comparison point. Your kids are watching this as its own object.

And they're just watching it because they think it's so funny and so crazy. And so it is like a Looney Tunes cartoon. It does feel like that. It just feels like, oh, this is people shooting guns. You don't see any blood. So it's scary, but not too scary. It's bombastic.

They're kind of fascinated by Schwarzenegger just as like his size and personality. It's like, you know. That's weird, he looks normal. They freaked out. It was so funny to watch them freak out in that moment when they pull into that alleyway and they have like the car,

like the cars butt each other's heads like that, you know. And they go into like that room full of women in like lingerie or like bikinis. Like they're just a room full of bikini women. Which again, I was like, is that a holding area? Women dressed as cars? The women were dressed as cars. I didn't know if that was a holding area for other actors in the movie or if that was just a scene.

Cause like, oh, is that reminiscent of like blazing saddles where they kind of crash into like the set where Dom Deluise is like conducting something because all the women were not. Once in the movie does not have any reality like that. I do like the set where Dom Deloitte is conducting something. Because all the women were not. But once again, the movie does not have any reality like that. I do like the bit, it's your background on Zoom, Paul, but that when they go to Blockbuster,

everyone who works there is literally a supermodel, every customer is literally a super, like it's Angie Efferhart. There's no ugly women. Like that was a funny joke. There's no ugly women here in our world. And I think that was like a really, but that's, and this is what I think,

why I like the movie so much and why I'm disappointed by the movie so much. It goes right up to these lines and pulls away. There's a great moment when, with the reveal of practice, the F. Murray Abraham character, where he takes him to the side of the hotel and they go to this back alley

and every garbage can is painted solid gold. And it's like, oh, that is a production designer going, oh, this is funny. Where I'm gonna have three solid gold trash cans here. They're like, it's like- In the universe of Jack Slater, even trash can't be dirty. Right.

And I was like, and then, and you have that right there. It's like, you're doing these, it's sort of like everyone is under their own idea of what this movie is. And unfortunately, I think the director probably was the least informed about what the parody of it is. Or didn't have the guts, like you said. Right, or he didn't have the guts, right.

Howard Lee is the word he keeps using. There's the scene, one of the scenes where Danny and Slater are in the car, and in the background, cars keep on crashing. Oh so funny. Yes. Right. Yes. And McTiernan's like I didn't go far enough with this. I like this idea that this guy has no awareness of the collateral damage he's causing because the universe just sort of like creates set pieces around him but it's done in a way that is actually so restrained that I think for us watching it today we're like like, this is kind of impressive and skillful.

And he's like, I think most people miss that it's happening. I was like actually telling my kids, like, look at that. Let's see what's going on. Then they started to catch it. Here's what I'll say about the character. And that shit's expensive and complicated. Like he's putting it on screen in a way that you might not notice.

Even 20, like 20 years after this or so, they still will struggle to figure out how to do this correctly in The Other Guys. Like The Other Guys is a similar style comedic homage to the action set, the action comedies of the 1980s and early 90s. And how surreal are we allowed to be, is a, you know, and that movie gets it more correct, I would say.

I would agree. Or at least it plays with the dial in a way that you accept. The best being the guys who jump off the roof in the beginning, you know. It's such a funny beat. And, you know, like, Anchorman has some of these similar things. Like, they're playing with these things in a way that is truly leaning into the absurdity being funny.

And this movie just keeps wanting to point to things being like, right? It's from the movies. Right? It's the remember berries. It's a reference. Right, it's like, you know, it's like, that's the South Park thing.

It's like, it's just saying the thing and going, that's a joke. And it's not always a joke. And I want to just go- Well, Danny calls it out out and then every other character in the movie goes shut the fuck up I want to bring up a film that I have not seen that came out also in 1993 the perhaps Ben has seen and for saying given its profile which is National Lampoon's loaded weapon one Oh, I've which is on laser disc on laser disc

That movie laser disc I have not seen but that is a direct spoof of you know, 80s That's airplane. It's Like can we have you know, it's Emilio Estevez and Samuel L. Jackson But I would like stars two guys who could have started a real version of that movie and the joke is they put the one in The title and we're like, we're already making fun of franchise success on the first one. Loaded weapon one, get it? I do get it, I've never seen it.

Wow. I figured this might've been a Comedy Central movie, but honestly that might not have even made it to Comedy Central, I don't know. I would love a spoof series on the Patreon boys. Interesting. Ooh, that'd be fun. Hotshots Part II, come on now. That's not, yeah, that's what I was gonna say,

that's not just Zucker Brothers or something like that, but that is a curated series of just spoof movies. Jane Austen's Mafia. Sure, we would eventually kill each other. But just choose six. Right, that's the thing, like people pitch Rick Bergseltser, but we don't wanna do all of that.

Can you pick one of each? Yeah, we find some platter. What do you want to say about Loaded Weapon 1? A budget of Loaded Weapon. Eight million, how much did it make? I mean, how much did it make? It made... 65.

Yeah, it made $51 million worldwide. $51 million on a $8 million movie is giant. At a time when no movie has made a billion. And they didn't make a sequel to that. It's the same year as last action here. This movie costs $80 million. It probably costs another $50 million to promote and it makes 60.

It ends up at around the same number as Loaded Weapon. I guess this did more worldwide. It was 60 domestic. But this movie lost money. Tremendous amount of money. This movie, for sure. Post-credits, lost tens of millions of dollars. For sure, yes.

But here's what I was gonna say about, to Griffin's point, and this is just something that you said it, and now finally clicked with me, he says cowardly, and I wonder if you have McTiernan at this point in his career where he's like, I am making a movie about making fun of the movies that I make. Am I pass my prime? And he's struggling with if I do this well, I eradicate myself.

Right. I can never go back to doing it for real again. Right. And he's walking this line where it's like, I am signaling the death knell of the thing that makes me successful. And yet, and that's what his career becomes. It goes down. Well, it's fascinating that his immediate response to this movie is Die Hard 3. He's like, what's the safest possible move I can do?

And by the way, in the time since I made Die Hard, they made a sequel without me that was Die Hard again in a different location. I'm now basically bringing McTiernan and Bombast to Die Hard. Like Die Hard starts to become a different size where you're like, Die Hard is no longer one guy stuck in a space doing a thing. Now it's just-

Die Hard 3 is massive. Exactly. It's New York City, that's the Sam Jackson one, right? Right, yes. It was a building, an airport, New York City. Exactly. And he's basically like, look, if the next movie has Die Hard in the title

and it stars Bruce Willis as John McClane, they'll let me do my thing. And that's maybe the only area in which they're gonna let me do my thing my way again. Cause I've kind of like punctured the air out of my own balloon at this point. It's also interesting the diehard movies as they progress get less and less comedic. They are less and less interested in John McClane being funny, quippy, ill-suited for the circumstances, he becomes a action star, like a sly, an Arnold. He goes from being the David Addison style

Bruce Willis character to being, you know, bulletproof. Yeah, and Vengeance is like, I think fairly funny, but it's mostly Sam Jack comedy. Vengeance is very funny. We're gonna talk about it. It is funny. That movie is very funny.

It is funny, it is funny. It's just, McClain himself is less the comedic motor of that movie. Yes. I mean, I always go back to the Kevin Smith interview. Kevin Smith interviewing Bruce Willis. He will have done Die Hard episode on this show by this point in time.

And this is just like- Wait, Kevin, Kevin did you diehard? I cannot wait. Incredible. Kevin Smith is interviewing, is Bruce Willis, and this is on the set of their diehard movie. Oh, on their diehard, yes. Sorry, not their diehard, whatever, the Kevin Smith, Tracy Moore, yeah, cop out.

And so he goes, you know, he goes, what is the secret of these movies? And Bruce Willis just goes, you know, he goes, you know, what is the secret of these movies? And Bruce Willis, he just goes, you know, I think people, the New Jersey sense of humor. Ha! That's what people come for. And I was like, well, you clearly don't know why people, New Jersey sense of humor is not the reason

why Die Hard works. New Jersey sense of humor. I'm pretty sure John McClane defeats Hans Gruber with a Grindr sandwich though. Correct. Yeah, so yeah, I think you're right. Don't call him Grindr. I know, sorry.

What do you call him? No, no, but what's the big sandwiches you can get at like? A sub? No, but the ones that have like mozzarella sticks in them. Oh, wow. They're like Gut Busters. Like in New Brunswick. You know, like Living Heart Attack sandwiches.

I feel like the Taylor Ham joke would have been cleaner. You know, I fucked up. I'm probably like the Taylor Ham joke would have been cleaner. You know, I fucked up. I'm probably because, you know, we've been on Zoom for two and a half hours. I feel insane. So let's fucking bring Shane Black in and have him do a pass on your jokes. What are they called? I'm looking it up.

But anyway, Gut Busters is a good... Fat Sandwiches, they call them. Oh, yeah. Classic New Jersey intellect went into naming of that one. Hey. Bam. Ben's looking alive again. Rude. I have a question for you guys,

just because we're in this kind of general McTiernan period. What I have now, I've looked it up and I've seen them all except for Nomads. What was Nomads like? Look, Griff and I both are firing up no man's basically ready to be like secret master, tight little indie thriller, incredible calling card movie is what you want. That's what I want. I wanted it to be the used cars of this series. No man's is one of the most like, you're just like, it never takes off, I guess is the best way to put it.

Like, it never really gets to thriller or horror or whatever. My biggest takeaway from watching Nomads is anyone who watched this and thought this guy should direct Predator was a genius. Yeah, but the answer is Arnold Schwarzenegger. Which apparently was Schwarzenegger, yeah. But I don't, like, I don't see it in there, and the answer I came up with is purely just Predator was not taken seriously as a movie. So they just saw 90 minutes that a guy successfully finished and went, why not hand it to him?

But that's also- I recommend watching it, Jason, just in terms of a WTF kind of- No, I'll watch it actually when this series starts, because I'll watch it concurrent with the episodes. But when David brought up in the dossier that McTiernan tried to take a couple passes at the script himself. That's the only film he wrote.

Nomads is the only film he has a writing credit on. And you're like, okay, so this guy shouldn't do this. That is not his skill set. Got it, okay. It also has Pierce Brosnan doing a French accent, which goes as well as you think it's going to go. It sounds exactly how you think it would. Interesting.

That's hilarious. As good as he would have Sean Connery's Russian accent in Hunt for Red October. He makes Sean Connery look like a 10th generation Russian. Yes. Okay. A Rom Russian. Yes. Yes. Okay. A Romanov.

Exactly. But here's another McTierney commentary thing, right? He keeps talking about his early days, right? And he's like, you know, one of my jobs before I had made it was like I managed an opera house. Yes, he did. And I would sort of like manage the construction of the sets.

And F. Murray Abraham was one of the guys who would pick up midnight shifts when he couldn't get acting jobs to come in and help like hammer boards together to build these opera sets and whatever. Talk about how he both loved and hated Mozart. Yes. He talks about all this stuff with a real like romanticism.

Right? He talks about when they're shooting the New York leg of this movie, working with the Irish teamsters the New York Teamster Union being in the trenches with those guys at three o'clock in the morning and he also just says like look I went to AFI I made student films I was used to working on movies with a crew of like ten all-in including cast right and he's like honestly that's my favorite way of work and I miss it

and when you work on a movie of this size, it gets tough to like steer the machinery, especially when it's a movie that now a studio is taking its identity on. It is fascinating that he is just saying this and he's bemoaning this. I know he's saying this in 2021 or whatever, right? With a decade out of prison and such. But like, he just kept getting bigger and he couldn't scale it down. Like the guy never was able to, even when he makes Thomas Crown Affair and he goes,

look, this is a more adult film, this is a more mature film, he just could never make something really of a smaller size. Well, Medicine Man is the closest he comes to that. And we talk about that Medicine Man is too big for what he's trying to do. He keeps being like, it's really just like an art movie

and it's just like, no it isn't. He's thinking that way because it costs $50 million. Yeah, and none of them are interested in being funny. No. None of them. No, and Medicine Man's trying to be funny as well. It is? Is it really? I don't remember. Yeah. I've seen it but I'm not in 20s or something years.

Medicine Man's going for a little bit of like African queen banter. Yeah, okay, got it. I see. Lor don't remember. I've seen it, but I'm not in 20s or something. Medicine Man's going for a little bit of African queen banter. OK, got it. I see. Lorraine Bracco gives this really, it's low key, I would say, is what I would describe her performance. Muted performance as a woman who can't stop just being like, what is the matter with you?

Oh my god! We gotta cure the cancer! I just wanna say that that was such a small performance that Zoom absolutely cut it out so that we couldn't hear anything, and it was just David visually gesticulating wildly to... Perfect. But the audio was completely cut for me.

Perfect. It's one of those performances where you're like, can someone put a blood pressure monitor on her just to make sure that she's okay? I'm worried. You get nervous, right? I'm anxious. The direction was, it's Karen from Goodfellas times 10.

Yeah, yeah. Is there not, look, I know everyone's gonna yell at me. Oh boy. Is there anything else we wanna talk about from the film, Last Action Hero, before I play the box office game? Absolutely.

David, thank you for asking. I have at least one hour of notes left. I'm so glad you opened it up rather than just segueing right into the box office game. I would like to ask just please. Yes, David. Let's make it a little faster than an hour without trying to provoke you. David, I would love, David.

I'm like the rancor keeper right now. I am behind on handing in a copy, edit of my book. I stayed up until four in the morning knowing I had to record this podcast because it was gonna take up all my time today. David, I would like to already say thank you. It is after 5 p.m. there. We PM there, and you are still in the office, which I very much appreciate.

I know that is almost impossible for you. Right, well, my wife is alone with the toddler right now. You're, I just want, just want the audio, the listeners at home to know your physical position is propping yourself up as if you're about to jump out of your chair. What you can't see is that he is propping yourself up as if you're about to jump out of your chair. Jason, what you can't see is that he is gripping the armrest of the chair with an intensity as such.

He's like this. The chair is bleeding. It's as if he can, so he can at any moment be like, and we're out. It's sort of what I'm gonna do just to warn you two guys when we stop recording, but I do believe in my, the last time you guys were on the show, I ran away at a certain point and you guys were on the show. I ran away

Mmm at a certain point and you guys recorded for another 20 minutes. Is that true? I look I went away to take a phone call one time We're still talking and I want to be clear David you left yeah angrily, uh-huh you left you were Big trouble in little China, I believe, was the episode. Left and a half. Oh, right. Yes. I don't think that's true. I think I literally had to, like, relieve my wife. I'm being hyperbolic, but it was very funny to watch you get more and more frustrated with how long it was. It's just funny how it's these episodes, as much as I now have, like, wrapped

more rubber bands around my life and it makes a little more sense to me and I have a little more control, these episodes are where they start snapping off. All of a sudden I'm very panicked. Specifically Paul and Jason. I feel like all of, well, the first one that's early COVID fever dream shit where we're just like, yeah, where Paul could just go take a call, come back and we're still on. Yeah. Because what the hell else are we going to do? And by the way, I did a 90 minute.

I did 90 minutes before I took that call. I came on your show to talk about Justice League, the Snyder Cut. When my daughter was like three weeks old. Like, yeah. Yeah. Whew. Yeah. So which was the more important birth for you of 2021, the Snyder Cut or your

daughter, my daughter, two things that you'd been wondering if they would ever, if you'd ever be lucky enough to witness them with your own eyes. It's very true. Release the daughter cut. Release the daughter cut. With my daughter's take on Justice League. Your daughter should take a pass at Snyder's Justice League. Ben, how did you feel about this movie?

Did Ben watch this movie? I did watch the movie and I actually have never seen it before. Wow. Interesting. I would have never seen it. I had never seen it. Wow. Interesting. I would have thought you had. Yeah. And I feel like you guys have said quite a lot about it already.

So sounds like Ben's also trying to get out quick. I thought it fucking stunk. Oh boy. All right. Now that would have been my guess. Sorry to say. I'm with Ben. I thought it stung.

The only reason I would have thought maybe you'd be won over by it is it's something of a 12 year old Ben Hosley fantasy to get sucked into an action movie. Yes. And so there's kids living that out. Yep. But my guess is you didn't-

Kid handling giant guns. Right, but my guess is you didn't like the kid. Can I ask a question? I think this is my, can I just jump in because I'm gonna predict that Ben, what Ben didn't like about it is, the kid should have murdered people in the movie. Yeah.

Well, I mean, that's what he was supposed to do. I feel like Ben thinks it's too sanitized. Well, I definitely, if I was put into that situation, I would have taken more advantage of the fictional world. Yes, give us some examples. There's no rules. Examples, Ben? Uh, Starfire. Good. There's no rules. Examples, Ben?

Starfire. Good. Sure. Steal stuff. A thing you can't do in the real world. Well, you can't, but you get, there's consequences. You get in trouble. Sure, sure.

That would be so interesting if Danny, realizing he's in the movies, started to excitedly participate in the movies. Commit crimes. And drive, drive the action, start to be a main character rather than just a sidekick. But I think that this is where the movie flirts. It's why I love this movie on some level,

because it flirts with it when he's driving his bike to the car, it's like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to do this, and then he's like, oh, I'm comic relief, which I think was a little bit of a hard sell because I don't think he is comic relief. You know, he kind of mislabels himself. You know, but that, like, that's the awareness that I feel like, oh, he can't,

no matter what he does, he can't. And that's why I love the say this word scene, right? Say this word. Yes, that's a good gag. That feels like a Shane Black thing. Right. Yeah. And that's a really funny, it's weirdly placed in the film

because it's like after a giant action scene and so much stuff has gone over and he's like, huh. And he's like, oh, you're still on trying to prove to him that he's in a movie? Right. I loved that. I loved that scene. And the other scene that I really loved,

which again is linked in my mind and similar, but the movie to me needed more of this, is the scene where Jack Slater reveals that his ex-wife is happily remarried and that he has someone from the coffee shop or whatever call and pretend to be his ex-wife. Pretend to be his ex-wife, who he then performatively goes like, oh, ball and pretend to be his ex-wife. Pretend to be his ex-wife, who he then performatively goes

like, oh, ball and chain and plays the tape, labeled true. And has a record, he's made a cassette. Like, that whole thing, I was like, I want to know about the guy who, you know, in that Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon way has lost his wife and doesn't know, and that he has something, that there's something interesting there, but it's kind of a gag and it's wife and doesn't know, and that he has something, that there's something interesting there,

but it's kind of a gag and it's not really investigated. Anyway, that's similar to what we were talking about before. It's a big thing, McTiernan said on the commentary that when you see Danny's apartment with Mercedes' rule, he wanted it to be depressing in a very specific New York way, right? They built the set and it was far too big and he said to the art department,

like clearly none of you have been broken living in New York City when you were young. Like this is not where they live. You need to resign, you need to make it like this, this, this, and that. And then when you get to Jack Slater's apartment late in the movie, whereas his daughter lives in like the exact kind of action movie home you'd imagine he's in.

He's in like the most depressing... That's funny. Right. I love that. This is the apartment you live in when you're struggling in Los Angeles versus New York. And what I want to underline in this moment is like, oh, not just because he's a fictional character, right, that he's not fully fleshed out, but like within the reality of this movie, this guy's life is actually pretty depressing.

And he was like, we could not find an apartment with a location bad enough, where we literally just went to a used car lot and they built it by the side of the road. Right, because then it's by the freeway is really funny. Of course. Because it's such a beautiful, it's so well done. I love that. That gag is one of my favorite gags in the movie.

Right, and then you get to this whole thing of like his wife, he wishes his wife called him, his ex-wife called him and nagged him. Yeah. Like there's nothing going on in this guy's life and it's almost the most interesting thing in this movie is when you get to the premiere at the end and the realities are colliding and Slater's in real New York and he's pretending to be Schwarzenegger at the premiere. What he's realizing there is an Arnold Schwarzenegger in all this. Right And he says, like, you know, I don't like you very much. Yeah. And Schwarzenegger is played off in this movie

as, like, such a careerist kind of goofball buffoon. Right. And Slater, as the movie develops, does start to get this sort of pathos to him and drop the mask. And McTiernan was like, my take was that at this moment you realize, oh, Slater actually is more real than Schwarzenegger is.

And it's not just a commentary for me on like, movie stars being vapid, but he's like, no, but that's the character that people know and form an emotional relationship. That's what it is. Right, he's like, we think we love Schwarzenegger, but we don't, we love Schwarzenegger in quotes, which Slater is. You don't want to meet Arnold Schwarzenegger

because he's like this sort of canny politician man. You want to meet Jack Slater. But then when Jack Slater is dying, it's like he belongs in the movie world. Right, we can't have him. Put him back. But I love that moment where, I mean again, this is a movie that touches on things

that never goes that much deeper, where he goes,, this is a movie that touches on things, but never goes that much deeper where it goes, where he goes, where Slater says to Schwarzenegger, I hate you, I hate everything about you. Like, you know, and it's like, and, and I was thinking about that as from an acting point of view from Schwarzenegger, I'm like, does he hate who he has become? This, you know, and I'm like, and I love that

because he is poking, and I love that, cause he is poking, and this is again, goes to why like there's only one person I think could really make this movie and go to those places. Cause he plays himself as a buffoon, but yet he's not creating a fake restaurant. It's the real planet Hollywood. It's the real gyms.

He's like telling this guy, come to Hollywood. You can be my stunt double. Like he is playing all the right real specifics and then says that one moment. But again, the movie isn't interested in going there. It's just like, you are the worst thing in my life. I have to pay the person at the 7-Eleven to call me at work so I can pretend to have a wife.

Even though that doesn't really make sense with the scene earlier, because then why would he put her on the phone? But the more successful version of this for Arnold is Total Recall. even though that doesn't really make sense with the scene earlier, because then why would he put her on the phone? But the more successful version of this for Arnold is Total Recall, where he is both the ordinary everyman and also this larger than life spy, intergalactic spy character.

And the fact that they didn't go to one joke and just say, why do you have an Austrian accent? That was the one missing joke for me. No one calls out the Austrian accent. That's an easy joke. Right, the one missing joke for me. No one calls out the Austrian accent. That's an easy joke. Right, the joke I'd rather this movie make is like, you know, when I was born in California.

You want the joke of him self-identifying his American backstory. Perfect. But Merchandise Spotlight, and this is a plot relevant, right? We talk about this movie being at odds with itself and what the weird, interesting core of the movie. Ben's laughing at my reaction to you saying

merchandise spotlight. Arnold being at odds with himself. Merchandise spotlight, when Griffin said merchandise spotlight, David Crum... David, I saw David beginning to crum. I have the box office page open, it's just here. I know. Just open a couple tabs.

Just vibrating. Oh, by the way, I just wanna say, I couldn't be happier to be spending these hours with all of great I'm gonna time with you guys. Believe me. It's it's actually a true delight like and thank you for making the tape Please come on. Thank you for me other time As you said Paul as you brought up early, right? Schwarzenegger had approval over everything in this movie down to the Merchandising and was very clear that he didn't want the action figures coming with guns. Which is this thing of him being like, I represent too much now.

And he wrote it. Guns are out. Like people don't like guns anymore. Now this is a point in time where because of the effect that we've already discussed, because of Clinton, RoboCop, Rambo, Terminator, all of those are getting toys made by major companies sold to children even though they're based on R-rated movies. And everyone's like, yeah, we're just kind of not really thinking about the fact that these characters have gotten watered down and abstracted into being children's characters even though they weren't designed that way.

This movie is obviously being designed that way. And yet he's like, I don't want like the toys to perpetuate violence. The video game similarly does not have guns in it and It was not a we're weary of putting violence in the game It was a Schwarzenegger saying I have approval the game cannot use guns because I don't want to perpetuate it there but then there's the the part that is at odds with itself of him being like I'm Also still constantly in this competition with myself to outdo my previous movies.

I'm not willing to not have the movie have guns. And not only that, the movie needs to have bigger guns than I've ever had before. Like I said, he's anxious once he starts, once McJurnid says like, hey, this is kind of like ET tone. Being like, wait, no, my fans don't like that. Like that's not gonna work for them.

And if you call a movie the last action hero. I'm watching this video game. It looks like shit. It's supposed to be terrible It also came out a full year after I mean, that's how it always was But like calling this movie last action here releasing in the middle of the summer shorts and agar's face I think they all were just overcome with this like Schwarzenegger's face. I think they all were just overcome with this like, absolute anxiety of, if this thing doesn't have the biggest action sequences anyone's ever seen,

the audiences are gonna be disappointed. It doesn't matter what movie we think we're making. It doesn't matter if we think we're making a fairy tale or a fable or whatever. It needs to have insane him hanging off of a crane kind of shit. I do wanna call out this movie did produce one of the greatest action figures of all time,

which I believe is called Skull Throwing Jack Slater, which is an action figure of Schwarzenegger as Hamlet that holds the skull and fires it from his arm. That's funny. I love that. That's like funny merchandise. Look, but again, like what does that remind you of? Tropic Thunder. It's like, oh, there's so many seeds of later, slightly sharper, but again, like, what does that remind you of? Tropic Thunder. Correct. It's like, oh, there's so many seeds of later,

slightly sharper, you know, Hollywood parodies in this film. But almost all of them are just going comedy first and foremost. Yes, right. We're not trying to have it both ways. I will also say, I've looked at the toys numerous times. Of course.

The other thing that I really like is that Benedict has his own car, which is like a- Is it called I, Roadster? Yes. Is that what it's called? Yes. Yes, where essentially it's like a, it is- I just wanna say Griffin is looking at nothing.

I'm looking you in the eyes. Evil eye Roadster while he looks dead eyed into the lens. I'll say this, this doesn't really look like anything more than a red car and the figure that is, it doesn't look like Charles Dance at all. Well, I'll tell you this much though, it's a car with a bad attitude with pop out eyeball headlamps,

it has the big bat battering ram and trip action side pipes, I don't know what that means. Does he even drive a car in the film in any way? He never drives a car in the film. But this is another thing where it's like, Toyline's it's like you make a lot of the hero, you make one villain, right, or two villains, and you make vehicles for the heroes,

you don't make villains. I'm actually going to cut this off. No, enough. Evil Eye Roadster speaks to the amount of confidence they have in this movie. That's enough, that's enough. Yeah, we get it, we get it. It's emblematic of Hollywood exact.

We get it, they spend too much on the money. Enough, enough. Go, go, go. Any final thoughts on Last Action Hero? I just had a mental moment there. Oh wow, that was. Where it was like, he's getting into the minutia of this, like I'm gonna fire my midget cricket at him.

That was so, that was so satisfying. Evil Eye Roadster. Here's what I'll say. Oh my God, that really... Whew! Thank God for Last Action Hero. Thank God for Last Action Hero, because I think what it did was it proved that you could make these movies, and we got great ones after it, even if you just want to say that the great ones are Galaxy Crest, Tropic Thunder.

Wreck-It Ralph. Or maybe it also, in its mistakes, it provides the blueprint for like, hey, how do you do this better? Or how do you focus this more? And it's an amazing time capsule. And it is this like, God bless Schwarzenegger, I know he kind of made a lot of mistakes, like for trying something like this. Yes.

Versus a slice of a... And not trying it in the safe way either. Right. He tried a risky thing and he did it in a weird way. I was going to say, I agree with everything everyone is saying, but I still think it is unsuccessful. You know what I mean? Like, I guess I watch it and I think,

oh, there is an incredibly executed version of this that is in here. That is, what a missed opportunity. Because I wanna be clear, I don't think this movie is trash or bad. that is in here, that is what a missed opportunity. Because I wanna be clear, I don't think this movie is trash or bad. I rewatched this movie two years ago. Like this movie is enjoyable to watch,

but it is in spite of itself because it is an unsuccessful version of what could have been a phenomenal movie. You know, and it's not just my expectations saying that, it's what everybody who worked on the movie has said. It's true. It's not like McTiernan is like, right, like, now you all get it. Well then, then can I ask this question?

What do we think about the legacy sequel that Schwarzenegger has teased, Last Action Hero 2? Could you do it? I mean, you could do that well, there's no way it would be good. That's my take. I think let Edgar Wright make that move.

I think you could remake this and knock it out of the fucking park. I don't think you can do it as a legacy sequel. Remake it with who? I'll tell you who it is. Chris Pratt. That's the application of Pratt. I think The Rock could do it too.

I think you could do it with The Rock, absolutely. I think you could do it with all these guys and it's a parody of The Expendables. That's true. Yeah. My Pratt take is just that Pratt is always best when he's playing a guy who thinks he's an action star rather than an action star. But that's what a movie two is, number one. And number two, like

all these movies now just have a lot of last section hero built into them already. The other problem, like such as the expendables, right? We're Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to go, is going to Yippee, Kaya motherfucker. It's from the other movie that I'm not in, you know, like, like how many layers too much of a post ironic hell to make kind of sick of the post ironic,ic shit, right? Isn't that what we're all complaining about? A little bit, yeah. The self-awareness, I don't know.

I mean, my wild swing was you do it with Tom Cruise. I mean, if you- That is more appealing. Paul, you're right. If you could get Cruise, it would feel so magical. It would feel so unreal. Tom Cruise and P. It would feel so unreal. But his? Tom Cruise and PT Anderson. Wow.

He and PT Anderson direct. I mean, you're just talking about fantasy films. It's Mission Impossible 10. It's Mission Impossible 10 and it's a spoof. But I think that Tom Cruise actually does provide a different kind of a thing. Cause it's like, I'm gonna jump off this building. I'm gonna do this other thing.

We're gonna do this. And it's like, and he's got that energy. Cause it's like, I think the way to go about it is a person who it's like a Denzel Washington, a Tom Cruise. These guys who are like, they're always Denzel on some level. If it's in a, in a unstoppable. Yeah. But even the Macquarie Mission Impossible's

and Ghost Protocol like have that thing of like. They put the vulnerability. What a weird guy this is. Right. Like he exists outside of... And they put self doubt in the character and yeah. They also aren't, these movies aren't the monocultural, they don't have the weight that the action movies of the 80s and early 90s did.

They were culture in a way that I think you're right. The only way to do it now would be to do it inside of an IP, inside of Marvel, inside of DC. Right. Like, to a certain degree, this is what Deadpool is trying to do. Yeah, you're right. Which is, like, play in the most popular genre with the vibes, the budget of the most popular genre,

and have your cake and eat it too. Have it work as an action movie and also be like, isn't it crass that the studio wants to put all these cameos in the movie that I'm in right now? And I don't know if you guys know this, but Deadpool knows that he's in a movie. I just want to say something quick before we go on. It's just, I love talking this long,

but if we don't get to the box office game soon, I'm going to like get really pissed off. I got to say, you're being a little inconsiderate. David, I know you want to keep talking about it, but can we go to the box office game soon, I'm gonna like get really pissed off. I gotta say, you're being a little inconsiderate. David, I know you want to keep talking about it, but can we go to the box office game? Jason's getting antsy. Well, we took a bathroom break. True. So it's hard to tell.

Yeah, that was like five, 10 minutes. But I would say we're, with ads, we're at the three hour mark. So June 18th, 1993. Jurassic Park is number one at the box office. I had an additional thought I wanted to contribute. I'm sure you did. David is looking at me in a way that makes me feel like I should fear for my life. So you know what?

Let's play the box office game. June 18th, 1993. Jurassic Park is the number one film at the box office. Spoiler alert. Yes. We basically already acknowledged it. Not only did that film open very well, $50 million, it dropped 23% for a, you know, front-loaded blockbuster.

That's crazy. No, and had the thing that Sony was hoping would happen with Last Action Hero where it played the entire summer. Of course. Number two is Last Action Hero, which is opening to $15 million. I mean, really bad. Which is really bad. What was the opening weekend on Jurassic?

Fifty! Five-zero. Right, the version of that word you want to hear. More than three times. I mean, the other thing I read, the moment where like Sony really kind of crumbled into panic, the following weekend, they also released Sleepless in Seattle and Sleepless in Seattle opens to number two, knocks last action hero down and makes more in its opening weekend. That is correct.

And they were like... It makes 17. Right. And they were just like, we've just trumped ourselves with a movie that was a pretty low budget flyer. Sleepless makes open to $17 million and legged it out to $126 million domestic. Last Section Hero opened to $15 million and hobbled to $50 million domestic. It was not a successful film. It makes worldwide $137 million, which I guess is like above its budget. And you have to add in like $200,000 worth of sales on the Evil Eye Roadster.

Right, the Evil Eye Roadster obviously kept Mattel afloat or whatever, but I think this studio- And a Burger King tie in? The cups were amazing. I mean, David's lucky that I'm not doing the Burger King sidebar. Look, you can do a fucking patient episode. You're not doing an episode of Cupwatch. Or I can just leave and you guys can talk cups for two hours for all I care. I did have the cups for this.

Yeah, and they had a film reel on it. So you would turn it. Exactly, there was magic motion. Yeah, magic motion. It was almost like a Zootrope effect. Yeah, it was cool. It's the magic of cinema. The opening weekend on Terminator 2.

Wait, I'm sorry, you walked out of the movie and bought the cup. Yeah, you walked out of the movie, but you were like, I bought the cup before the movie. Okay, okay. Oh wow, oh what a heartbreak. And I had the cat one. And it would taunt you. But I think the studio took like a $25 million

right down on this film. It was not successful. Number three at the box office, Griffin, is an action film starring Arnold Schwarzenegger's greatest rival that I think is very well liked to this day. Cliffhanger? It's Cliffhanger. Okay.

Which is kind of the last successful Stallone movie in a way, right? Like that's kind of the tale in him too. Yeah. I guess Demolition Man is after this. Where does that end up? 84. That must've really hurt Arnold.

Wow. Especially cause like, I like Cliffhanger. Yeah. It's fun, but it's stupid. It's just another, yeah. Right. Stallone movie versus Schwarzenegger being like, I'm gonna make my biggest film ever. Right, and Cliffhanger's just like, I climbed the cliff, I have muscles.

Right. And also, Schwarzenegger's like, oh, I'm gonna do like a meta movie. I'm gonna do a movie that comments on things that's like after, that's seeking to go past these kind of movies that's lies like, no, no, I'm still making the movie. Right, Stallone's like, just give me an occupation and I'll come up with a funny character name.

Or it's just like, what if I was on a cliff? And it's like, wow, that's pretty dangerous. Or it sounds like our movie is in production. Number four, The Box Office Griffin. This is a more interesting one. This is a film that opened on a few screens last week, has expanded to only 420. Wow.

And is entering the top five. Wow. So it's got a crazy per screen average. Yeah. It is a biopic. So it's sort of interesting. It's an Oscar player in a way. It's an Oscar player.

But it's in the summer. But early, but in June. Yeah. And it's sort of interesting. It's an Oscar player in a way. Oscar player. But it's in the summer. But in June. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a good movie. But it's best known for its performances. It's not Malcolm X. No.

But am I thinking along the right lines? It's a... It's not Chaplin, is it? No, it's not about... No, it is about entertainment, I guess. It's about entertainment. An entertainer. It's about entertainment. An entertainer.

It's about entertainer. A famous entertainer, but it's a tragic and dark film as well. It's not What's Love Got to Do With It? It is What's Love Got to Do With It. It's Angela Bassett and Laurence Fishburne in What's Love Got to Do With It. That's an interesting release strategy for that movie. But I think it sort of succeeded.

It clearly did. I haven't seen that movie in years. Yeah, good movie. Number, do you guys care about what Slope got to do with it? I mean, I saw it when it came out, but I've not seen it since. It's really an Angela Bassett-like tour de force. Yeah.

But Larry Fishburne's incredible in it. Number five, now this is a little more of a time capsule movie, I would say. This one has an injury. That's also, they got Tina Turner's final on-screen appearance in last action hero And the movie about Tina Turner's kind of it's true collecting more heat Where does that movie end up at the master one? I mean, yeah, everything's out Wow, last action hero. So the final it's a comedy. It's a it's a mismatch comedy

One of these people one one of these people, they don't belong together. Shouldn't be in the same movie. Starring a very famous comedian. They're mismatched. It's not Bird on a Wire. No. Is it The Man with Two Brains? It's not that.

It's not a Lily Tomlin. It's not a Lily. And does it star The Weasel? It's The Weasel. No, and son of that Doesn't are The weasel is the weasel who is the weasel? Who is the weasel sure what's going on then put another? Are they wheezing the juice at all in it? What's going on? Oh sure? No, it's not a poly sure no Jesus Christ Almighty Son was a big hit I and Law was a big hit It was a big hit. I'm gonna google Sun and Law right now

find out how much that money is Did it outgrow Slash Action Heroes This film... Famous comedian. She's the more famous person Yeah, but he's pretty famous too, but he's a better known TV star Sun and Law made 37 million Well this film made 44 so Sun and Law ate his dust

He's a TV actor. They're well known for dating, I think either before or after this, so they had a relationship sparked by this movie, I believe. Oh, I know it is, I got it, I know it. And a controversy at the Friars Club. There was a controversy at the Friars Club around this couple, and the couple is?

Ted Danson, Whoopi Goldberg. Made in America. Made in America. The film is Made in America. Richard Benjamin's Made in America. Young Will Smith, that's true. I think that's his first film role ever. Nia Long is in there as well.

What is that actually about? I actually have not seen Made in America. Literally all I know is that he has a cowboy out of the poster and she's like, that's crazy. He owns like a used car dealership and Whoopie Goldberg is Will Smith's mother. Uh huh. Oh, it's a sperm donor movie. He turns out to like, he's like, I want to meet my dad.

And it's like this guy is a cowboy hat. What kind of fucking topsy turvy world are we living in? This guy was made in America. Have not seen. Have any of you seen Made in America? No. Okay. I think I did at the time,

cause I saw everything, but I don't have any recollection. Some of the other films in the top 10, you've got Larry Cohen's Guilty as Sin with Rebecca DeMornay, and Don Johnson. That must've been a really chill shoot, Those three. That sounds like an erotic thriller. Yes, crappy 90s erotic thriller. Maybe it's great. Four people are gonna tweet at me now.

Or blue sky me or whatever. It's actually the best movie ever made. Actually a really underrated, under, David was wrong, very underrated. I like 90s erotic thrillers, but it is funny now how everyone's like, yeah, yeah, I mean, these are good. And like yeah Yeah, I mean like you know these are good. I'm like wait Well, but that's correct me if I'm wrong that's pretty much what you guys are saying about last act

Number seven is Dave a charmer a fucking masterpiece Number eight is a new film that I've never heard about once upon a forest, what the hell is that? It's an animated film. Oh. It's a Hanna-Barbera animated film. Yes, no that movie's a disaster. Oh wow. It doesn't look good.

Yeah. It looks like a rip-up Ferngully. Yeah. He looks kind of like, you know, a glass unicorn-y maybe. Let's also call out that Schwarzenegger has a cameo in Dave as himself doing his sort of like fitness spokesperson Yeah, Joe leader of the marital aspirations. Yeah, right

Number nine. I don't remember Dave at all. Dave rocks Jason you'd probably have a good time talking and Jason you should watch it and then text Griffin I and we can talk about his penis. Thank you. We have an ongoing argument about his Scene in the film revolving around his penis. Right, right, I know, I think I've heard you guys talk about it. But you need to see the film. Just re-watch the film and then tell us where you live. Yeah, exactly. And I'm not even sure we're divided on it.

We just both are like, where's the truth? We like asking the questions. We're just asking questions. Right, because isn't it basically his wife sees him in the shower and if it was the same guy mustn't she has a reaction that is hard to like the movie is making ambiguous to say she's saying she's seeing a different Dick and that is confusing. Well did you hear about that?

Like I guess last night they announced that Barry Kiyogan is going to be in the new Dave and they're doing a lot more and that they're really going to make that from sulfur. That one's going to be shot from the bottom down, right? That one is not gonna do the, you know- They really just, they felt like that was the kind of the crux of it. So that movie's gonna be a lot more dick specific. Right, right. You know, number nine at the box office is a great film.

Menace to Society, which is sort of like a surprise hit. And then remember Menace to Society, don't drink your juice in South Central while you're getting your boys in the hood. Don't be a Menace to Society while you're drinking. We covered on Patreon. We sure did. Number 10, I don't know this movie,

Life with Mikey starring Michael J. Fox? I remember that, yeah. He's an agent for child stars, is that right? It's kind of like what if Michael J. Fox had flamed out and become an agent for child stars, like post-family ties or whatever? Yes. Right. Who's the agent that would have fucked up Michael J. Fox's life? It's sort of Jerry Maguire with child stars, right?

He sort of learns how to be a better person. He's against them and then he learns to be like, I gotta support them, and I love them. And that, yeah. Yeah. You seem thrilled. I'm looking at the poster, and I'm just sort of like, who's this for? Like, you know, like, I've only recently been watching

The Good Wife. Oh, that's a good show. And have watched so much of it, and was, have been, absolutely delighted how much Michael J. Fox is in the show over the years. He's fantastic in The Good Wife. have been absolutely delighted how much Michael J. Fox is in the show over the years. He's fantastic and a good wife. As a recurring antagonist. As a recurring antagonist who uses his Parkinson's disease

as a weapon in court. It's so good, he's so electric to watch. It is, it is. By the way, Life with Mikey, solid cast. I mean, it really is. You've already talked about Christine Bransky, Victor Garber, Krumholz, Nathan Lane, solid. I just wanna, it really is. You've already talked about Christine Baranski, Victor Garber, Nathan Lane, Nathan Lane, solid. I just wanna call out Ben is currently sitting at his desk.

I think Ben is maybe rolling an arsenic cigarette for himself. I was gonna say, it looks like he's doing origami, something I didn't know. He's gotten several phone calls from people, I assume, wondering where the hell he is. Are you okay? The police being like missing persons report style, you know.

I didn't foresee Ben being just as anxious to leave as David. David is running his hands through his hair. Ben and I are pretty simpatico, I would say. Right. It depends. OK, so then, Ben, I won't ask what's

going on with your earring and or what's going on with your fashion line, because I don't want to make this last longer. I do think we're wrapping up, but I do think if Ben wants to talk about his earring, or have you already talked about it? It's a slightly touchy subject,

but I do think Jason deserves an answer. Yes. Wait, did you talk about this on the mailbag? I did. Okay, okay. But you know, just so we can have- But that's behind the paywall. Yeah, exactly.

Because I think when I was there last for the James Bond movie, it had just happened. It freshly pierced. Yes. At 38 years old, I decided now is the time. Bad Boy 2.0. Because I think when I was there last for the James Bond movie, it had just happened. It freshly pierced. Yes. At 38 years old, I decided now is the time. Bad Boy 2.0. So it's probably been, I don't know, when was that?

It was like six months? Six months, seven months ago? A fall? Five months? Yeah. You know, normally it should heal in, I don't know, four to six weeks. People have been getting their ears pierced, piercing their body for thousands and thousands of years. How could it be that one man could somehow not successfully

do it? One ear with one hole. Yes. I'm proving it possible. Somehow my ear is not healed. It hurts. It's infected. It's been infected on and off. I don't know what to do. Then of course I got like so many different contradictory sort of things from people who listen to our mail back episode of what I should do. So I'm at a loss, but right now currently

my ear itches so much. He also, he can't take out the starter stud. Like the whole goal was to be able to experiment with different earrings and he's still stuck with the one they give you just to keep the space. What if you doubled down, lose the ear, replace it with like a cyber ear or something? Cyber ear, just saying.

Interesting. The goal was to get a Michael Jordan sized hoop. Right, cause you're a lot like Michael Jordan. I am. Yeah, in every other way you're just like him. I always refer to you as the Michael Jordan of being Ben. My wife just texted me to relax. I think she can even she can tell that I'm like,

I'm coming home soon, I promise. She's like, just enjoy the show. Just enjoy the show. And to answer your question as far as the fashion, I did do a fashion show over the summer at the Bell House. Really? I have a new collection.

It's on congratulations.com. So that's why you. I'd love, I'm going to go perusing after this. I'd love to be, you know, I'd love to be dressed by you. Wow. That's a huge honor. If anything, if I this. I'd love to be, you know, I'd love to be dressed by you. Wow. That's a huge honor. If anything, if I may, I'd love to send you both some free swag. Hey, always.

Done. Also, Ben, have you thought about doing a line of congratulations, white button downs and black slacks? They're blue, they're just jeans. If you're specifically speaking to my uniform, it's jeans. So, but I will wear jeans that have been buried. Oh wow. Hmm. Okay smart. All right. This is great This is huge. We can keep going David. I know you're like just miserable now I'm getting now I'm getting panic because I am really behind in my book. Okay, you're Paul is starting

Famous people I'm not the thing. We, we. Fucking. I wasn't now, I'm like, I haven't got it. I've been here for a while now. You've taken so much, these are busy famous people. They were the ones who called us. I know, they're crazy. We got the text this morning. Yes, Paul said. Literally, the one thing I should not be doing right now is a four hour podcast. Like, comically, so this is the first time my children have been out of the house,

my wife was away all weekend. I'm actually starting to feel really bad. Okay, all right, we're gonna wrap this up. I'm happily here. I just, but I felt, but I just, when you got that text, I was like, I should, I mean, exactly. Paul, you're the friendliest man in show business.

You're a great sport, but you got a deadline to hang out. We're gonna end this episode. I just, I just wanted to know. Jason, you're also the friendliest man in show business. Jason this morning texted, I'm halfway in and can't wait to chat. I blocked out nine hours and Paul responded, I told your assistant's name,

whatever you allotted, double it. I do, I, cause I go- I noticed, I did notice, I do love, cause we're approaching it. I noticed that my assistant put it in my calendar from 11 to three. So our reputation is known. What was the longest episode that we did?

I think Use Cars was like closer to three and a half. I don't remember. But I think Alex is still longer now. I think there's a longer episode now. And this is, yeah, Fight Club was the longest. Yeah, Fight Club was now the longest. Right, right, right. Look guys, thank you very much for making the time to do the longest. Yeah, maybe Fight Club was now the longest. Right, right, right. Look guys, thank you very much

for making the time to do the show. What an absolute delight. Thank you both for having us. It's so lovely to have you guys on the show. Is there anything you guys wanna plug? Paul, when does the book come out? Well, you can pre-order my book right now. It's called Joyful Recollections of Trauma.

If you just type in Paul Scheer book, wherever you get your books, audio books or eBooks, you can get it. And if you do pre-order it, I will say I am kind of creating the DVD extras of book sales just because I know it's a lot to ask of anyone to buy things. And so I'm trying to make it worth your while.

I have some cool stuff lined up. Sure. We'll have a link in the episode description. We shall. Yep. Yeah. When do we think this will be coming out? Well, we know when it's coming out. We know, dead to rights.

Much like last action hero, we have a release date that we refuse to move off of. Despite, you know, yeah, so this is coming out in March, March 24th, so we are recording Wayne and Vett. So imagine your book will be out by then, Paul, right? No, my book is not coming out until May. Oh, incredible. Beautiful. A big summer blockbuster release.

But the idea is, according to everybody, I'm learning so much in the publishing world, that I have to make all my, the biggest, the most important thing is the pre-sales. Yeah. So that's it, so don't wait, so don't wait. That's what I have to make sure I always am telling people, don't wait.

It's what makes the difference is pre-sales. So everyone pre-order Paul's book. If you are hearing this and you live in David's old stomping grounds, the UK, we will be coming with our podcast, How Did This Get Made to London, to Dublin, to Belfast, to Glasgow. We're gonna be going all through Scotland, Ireland,

and mostly just London for How Did This Get Made shows. So if you wanna come and see us, go to the website. HDTGM.com. So check that out. And then, you know, that's it, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

How Did This Get Made? Love it. How Did This Get Made. And of course, oh, you know what? I'll shout out one of my favorite podcasts. I'll shout out? One of my favorite podcasts, I'll shout out two things that are related to this movie. One of which is the book, Last Action Hero. Nixisemmian.

Which is a fantastic book that is about all of the movies and stars of this era of action movies. Your Seagulls, your Slies, your Schwarzeneggers, your Chuck Norris's, everybody gets a chapter or more. And then I'll also shout out the Action Boys podcast, which is one of my favorite podcasts, has a fantastic episode about this movie, as well as all the other movies that we've talked about

beforehand, it is John Gabris, who's a past, I'm assuming, and future guest of this show. He just did Predator. Oh, perfect. It's Gabris, it's Ben Rogers, and it guest of this show. He just did Predator. Oh, perfect. It's Gabris, it's Ben Rogers, and it's Ryan Stanger. It's a Patreon podcast called Action Boys with a Z. Become a janitor if you aren't one already. It is fantastic.

Yes, become a janitor, become a Shadow Wolf, Zombie Squad right here, let's do it. And I'll shout out one more thing. If you wanna read the novelization of The Last Action here, you can do that. It's available at Walmart, it's pre-owned. It's only about five bucks. And you can kinda get some more of the fun details

of a novelization of a movie about a movie. And I think all the subtleties are really gonna play in that. I got something to plug. Mattel made a toy called Benedict's Evil Eye Roadster. It's currently available on eBay. Can be found intact, mitten package, complete with instructions, readily for under 20.

What, Kevin? He hates talking. I would like, can I thank whoever the blankie is who sent in the copies of Roger and Val, a show that I asked for access to when I was last on Blank Tech. Yeah, on Tomorrow Never Dies? Yes, when I did Tomorrow Never Dies, and one of your fans ripped and sent the whole series,

which has been phenomenal. So thank you to that blankie. And who says all of our fans are terrible? I'm currently looking for the Judy Sill documentary, if someone has access to the Judy Sill documentary. I like you using. I like using this as a crowd sourcing. As like pirate bay.

Yes, I'm not on social media, so I can't ask people to do things. So I can just come on podcasts and say, I would like someone to send me the Judy Sill documentary. Good. And there is another show that I'm trying to think of. Oh, Posh Nosh. Could somebody find RIP and send me Posh Nosh,

which is the Richard E. Grant starring British fake cooking show that feels like a barefoot Contessa, but is very funny. Incredible. Thank you. Guys, thank you for being here. David, how are you feeling? I'm fine.

I'm sorry. I really hate that I am the stick in the mud sometimes. You know, I do. I don't want to be. We would have it no other way. But I know I play into the, you know, it's all part of the fun, right? This feels like a moment of real emotional catharsis. Of something the movie could never face. Yeah.

It's been, I moved one month ago. The 15th of December. You're looking at the calendar. It's the 15th of January today. Happy new month. and new home. Right. But like it's just this, it's been a long month. It's been a long month. Yeah.

So. You want to talk about it? This is as good a form as any. If Ben you want to add another tape to the reel. It's just the fact that we all got COVID and like our COVID. Spool it up. Our COVID cases were very mild. Like it was fine. But it was like to tack on an extra week

of like, you're just in the house and you can't really do anything. No, that's rough. No, that's bad. Was after the move and the holidays was, you know, and then I started reading The Shining. Like I was like, what's the next book in my Kindle? I'll read this and there's The Shining.

And I was like, yeah, sure. Let me read The Shining. And I was just like, what am I doing? I can't leave that house. You just moved with your wife and small child into a new home, got sick, were stuck indoors and started reading the Shining. If I'm your wife and I see that you're reading the Shining after all of this, I am a terrified. Yeah. I'd shine your ass at a self-defense. Luckily, we don't have any, uh, Roke mallets. You know, the book is, we don't have any rogue mallets. You know, the book is different from the movies.

Oh, sure, rogue mallets. Yes, yes. Yeah. And yeah, Friday we have to do Die Hard, and it's going to take... It's going to be a great episode. I think it is a Die Hard episode. Kevin Smith. Kevin Smith. Oh, that's what you said. I mean, unless that falls through, in which case this is all getting cut. Ben, let's go. Let's get going.

Thank you all for listening. Thank you, Ben, David, Jason, and Paul, for the generosity of your time. Very much so. And thank you to our listeners for the same. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Bardi, executive producing this show, Adrian McKeehan, our production coordinator, Alex Barron, our production coordinator. Alex Barron, our editor. JJ Burch for our research.

Lane Montgomery, the great American novel for our theme song. Jo Bo and Pat Rounds for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon blank check special features where we're doing the Terminator commentaries and we're doing the full episode on Sin Eater,

the crimes of Anthony Pelicano. So that's both sides, context on McTiernan and Schwarzenegger if you enjoyed us scabbing about those two subjects today. To next week four, Die Hard with a Vengeance. That's right, haven't done that one yet. Haven't done that one yet. Oh, you know, by the way, we just did Terminator 2 on Unspooled.

I saw that. Yes, you guys just did that. Yeah, but you guys have also done it too, so I don't wanna, I don't wanna, you know, I the way, we just did Terminator 2 on Unspooled. I saw that. Yes, you guys just did that. Yeah. But you guys have also done it too, so I don't want to... This was our second Terminator 2 episode. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a rare double dip for us.

Yeah. Yeah, right. Die Hard with the Vengeance. And we followed that up by doing Wayne's World, and here's the interesting thing. In the last three movies I've seen, Robert Patrick has portrayed the T-1000. You've seen the complete T-1000 trilogy. You did all three. Except for the ride, the Universal Studios.

We did that! I know that, yes. Have you been watching this season of Reacher? No, I've heard it's not as good. Robert Pa... It's great. Patrick's Reaching now? He's in it. He's in it as the villain, and he has a Sarah Connor joke.

Oh. Oh, I love it. We gotta watch Reacher. We gotta reach. Should I watch season one, Jason? Should I just dive in with season two or should I watch season one? You can. Oh, you can watch season two

because they're completely, much like Slow Horses, they are completely contained storylines. And watch Slow Horses. And season one, oh, Slow Horses, don't watch Reacher yet, watch Slow Horses. they are completely contained storylines. And watch Slow Horses. And season one, oh, Slow Horses, don't watch Reacher yet, watch Slow Horses. Okay, all right. When I finish For All Mankind,

I'll do Slow Horses and then I'll do Reacher. Stop watching For All Mankind and do Slow Horses. Absolutely not, I gotta finish For All Mankind. But it's great, and Reacher's a blast, anyway. The For All Mankind episode I just watched ended with Eddie Gathegi saying, do you wanna steal an asteroid with me and then to cut two credits

with X gonna give it to you playing over it. It's a real movie. That's the best. That sounds good. That sounds good. Yeah. To a, quote unquote, 70-year-old Joel Kinnaman

in like the Hello, Muscularious Old Man makeup of all time. We're all trying to end the episode, and you're getting into what TV shows you're watching. I'm trying to, I was ending the show. David, it seems like you want to hang out. David, I need to get out of here. Okay, let's go.

I have places to be. Yeah, your toilet. Yeah, I do. I got a busy, full night ahead of me. That's all I can tell you. David, have you watched The Gold? Which one? The Gold.

No. Oh, get involved with The Gold. Okay. It's about a 1980s British gold heist. Yep, the Brinkspin robbery. Yes, and it's fantastic. Jack Loudon, Hugh Bonneville, it's great. Great cast, great show.

It sounds pretty good. Gotta be honest with you. All right, I'll check this out. Goodbye. That's how the show ends? I know, I'm saying goodbye. Oh, I think it's supposed to be Smell Ya Later Fartheads. No, that's Patreon. Oh, yes. That's how the show ends? I know I'm saying goodbye. Okay. Oh, I think it's supposed to be smell you later fart heads No, that's Patreon. Yes, that's Patreon. Here's how we end this. For you, it's Patreon. I'm saying it here

Okay, and as always Smell you later fart heads Gentlemen so much fun. Thank you guys so much. Just a delight. David, David just put the headphones back on. I realized I wouldn't be able to hear you guys. Usually I take the headphones off, but right.

Holy shit. Great stuff. What a delight. I think everyone will be so happy. I should hope. They fucking better be. If they, this is how we end every episode. Now we go, they better like that. Honest to God, who cares what they think? I'm so happy. I should hope. They fucking better be. If they... This is how we end every episode.

Now we go, they better like that. Honest to God, who cares what they think? I had a blast. I did this for me. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you Oh, I'm actually, but you know what I didn't ask is I'm just recording in QuickTime. Is that okay for you, Ben, or would you prefer something else? No, that's totally fine. Okay. And I am recording that's totally fine. Okay. And I am recording in GarageBand. Wow. I'm gonna actually have to ask you to use something else, Paul.

Just joking, that's great too. Oh, great. All right, guys, I'm gonna pull out Audacity, whatever you need. No, no, no. Did we get that on mic, Ben, because that was so funny, that trick. We got it, record all these bits.

Griffin, we got it. Thank fucking God. That's Patreon content. I bet all this better be in the app. You know what? Yeah, yeah. We'll make sure to put it like, we'll have like a long pause.

Over the theme song at the end. Yeah, maybe we could. Like three minutes of silence. 30 an hour, an hour of silence. I'd love, you know what podcasts don't do enough? The hidden track. The hidden track. The truly hidden track.

Do the full outro, play the song, and then at the end, after like a minute of silence, just dump all of this. Endless Nameless. That would be my favorite thing to do about this. By the way, I believe that we tried that maybe on How to Discommit, but what you don't realize realize this once people start to hear that you're even going towards it and they're like, I do that. I do that. I will admit when people ramp in podcasts into

the like, okay, so I'm just like, great. They're done. Delete. Like, Oh same. Yep. And then also people will have those apps that are like remove silence. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yes. Yes. Yes. My people would read it all the time.

Be like, the commentary doesn't sync up at all. This is fucked up. And then they'd be like, Oh, my app was removing silence. So it like sped up the episode. Insane. All right. Okay. Cause they're going to miss out on this great part of the episode.

I hit a track that happens after 20 minutes of silence at the end of the episode. I love that. And smart people will notice, wait, there's 20 minutes still left in this file? Only the smartest people. That's how I felt at the end of air. I was like, they got it, they bagged them.

Why are there 15 more minutes of this movie? And then I realized it was just for like, where every character went for about 10 minutes. Okay, get ready for my world famous, perfectly honed Arnold Schwarzenegger impression. Oh yeah. Ready? This has been a good series for me to continue to step in it.

Agh, agh, agh. I'm getting into it. This is my actual. This is your warmup? This is your way in DOOM. Agh, agh. How are you bad at this? I'm getting into it. This is my accent. This is your warmup? This is your way in. I like it. Tuma. Agu. Yes. Agu.

How are you bad at this? Put this all, this all better be in Ben. Agu. Okay. Okay, this could go in for sure. Ready? Yeah. Whoa, what are you listening to this for?

Wait, who's talking? You know you're driving a 2024 Ford Escape with available Alexa built in, so you can change the music. Oh yeah, Alexa, change station to 99.2. See? Purchase a 2024 Escape ST-Line all-wheel drive with TechPak at 3.49% APR for 72 months with down payment. That's just $267 bi-weekly, cash value of $40,294. Plus, eligible Ford owners get a $1,000 bonus. For details, visit your local Ford store or Ford.ca.