Blank Check with Griffin & David - Lolita with Fran Hoepfner

Episode Date: September 4, 2022

How did they ever make a podcast of LOLITA? Let’s just say that it wasn’t easy, but thankfully our guest Fran Hoepfner is in her “brave era” and was more than up for the task! If our SPARTACUS episode was full of Tony Curtis impressions, we’re classing up the joint this week with plenty of James Mason bits. In this episode, Ben learns about the Hays Code, Griffin learns how to pronounce “Nabokov,” Fran learns that it is very difficult to eat a giant lollipop, and David learns what everyone thought of his and Forky’s recent wedding. Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

I want you to live with me and die with me and podcast with me. Not a bad Mason. Thank you. Remember when Jon Hamm busted out of James Mason on SNL? Yeah. It was like he was having a great up and then you were like, is he going to do an impression that he did James Mason? Got a pocket Mason.

And I was like, all right. Yeah. All right. Yeah. In what sketch? Huh? In what sketch? It was one of those Bill Hader sketches that's like a black and white Vincent Price movie or whatever. Where Hader's just like, come on guys.

It was, right, that became the weird receptacle for like, does the host have an impression that is so out of vogue that there's no other sketch you can put it in? We need hosts who can do stuff like that again. Absolutely. I was looking for quotes to open this episode with,

and I was struggling to find a quote that didn't overly sexualize the podcast. You know what I'm saying? I mean, sure. Yeah, I guess so. You didn't want to do normal guy, normal podcast? Normal guy, normal podcast. You know?

I can't remember a lot of quotes from this movie. I'm just sort of searching my brain. It's really just the normal guy stuff podcast you know I can't remember a lot of quotes from this movie I'm just sort of searching my brain it's really just the normal guy stuff I remember after I saw it at Film Forum I went back home and looked up that normal guy scene just to watch it again it's so crazy in the context of the film it is so bizarre

and all the comments on YouTube are like this is bone chilling this is so scary this is the scariest part of this movie this is so upsetting and disturbing I was, this is bone chilling. This is so scary. This is the scariest part of this movie. This is so upsetting and disturbing. I was like,

this is really funny. This is so funny. I think it's both. Like, it is very funny, but it does make my skin crawl where the tension of it is like unbearable. What drives me insane

is the twofold nature of this podcast, of every podcast perhaps. This mix in my podcast is temporary my childishness I'm the very old Garrett I know it is my madness to keep this podcast gives me a strange

thrill to do so that happened to me recently where I was wearing like a cheap pair of sunglasses I was kayaking Jesus fucking Christ did you lose them? they fell off they went in the water and I had the one second where I was likeaking. Jesus fucking Christ. Did you lose them? They fell off. No.

They went in the water and I had the one second where I was like, I can grab them. Yeah. I missed and it was just like, gone.

And they were heart-shaped, right? They were heart-shaped. They were like, yeah, my Lolita kayaking class. You were lying in the kayak, Lolita style, on your tummy. I love to just throw off

a Lolita vibe on my kayak. Legs thrown up. Yeah. Yeah. And your wife said, David, what the fuck are you doing? Grab the paddle. David, what the fuck? I wish I could.

David, what the fuck are you? I can get it for a second and I lose it again. It's almost like, it's like, there's a little bit of like male Catherine Hepburn in it. Right? There's like a little bit of the. Right. Obviously, he's an Englishman. But there's. I little bit of the right obviously he's an englishman but there's sorry what james face from the uk you know that but there is one of those things where when you

see him you're like well of course this guy was a movie movie star sure he's not maybe like conventionally handsome sure he's handsome but you know right yeah yeah and like he only got famous when he's older but when you hear him talk you're like yeah but no one else is like that that's the thing so it's just kind of like yeah you gotta have this guy in movies people used to be movie stars because they were just unique you know it's kind of what david niven is like i know david niven was like a genuine sex symbol like it's not i'm you know but like but bogart's like who else is like this fucking guy bogart's like the perfect example of that where you're like you read through bogart's career and you're like as a young man in theater his thing was playing like glib upper

crust right right blue blood like fucking rich boys right and then he becomes like oh ages he no longer looks like that have him be the guy in the back of like the fucking gang the trigger man and at some point they're heavy right i don't. Just let him fucking be the star of one movie. What are we going to do? Everyone's just like, who the fuck looks like this and sounds like this? Like this is young bogey,

young girl bogey. Or he's a little more debonair. Right. It's funny that like you read young bogey reviews and they talk about him like he's Bradley Cooper in Wedding Crashers.

And they're like, this guy's obviously figured out his type. God. Bradley Cooper in Wedding Crashers. All the photos are like him in like a fucking sweater with a racket. The maestro himself? I can't talk about it.

We can't talk maestro? I mean, we can. We can talk maestro. Maybe, in fact, we must talk maestro. Well, we will talk maestro on Blank Check whenever maestro do come out. That was like, I woke up in a cold sweat being like, they're going to cover maestro, right? She literally texted me at like 6 in the morning. And Maestro do come out, right?

We do think. Next year, I believe. Next year, next fall. They're kicking it. Okay, what the fuck, Maestro? Do you know what Maestro is? No. It's Bradley Cooper's next directed film.

Oh, wow. In which he plays Leonard Bernstein, the famous composer. Steven Spielberg was supposed to direct it. I saw him in Old Man. Yes. He's wearing a big prosthetic nose. He's wearing a Bernstein, the famous composer. Steven Spielberg was supposed to direct it. I saw him in Old Man. Yes. He's wearing a big prosthetic nose. He's wearing a Bernstein face. He's apparently directing in

Bernstein voice. Yes. Which, I mean, I don't think you should drop the voice in between scenes. If you are the maestro, how are you going to drop maestro when you're being the director? I mean, no, I agree. It's just a crazy thing to think, because then it's like, oh, it's almost as if Maestro himself, Leonard Bernstein, directed a film. But like you work in film.

You've been in terrible films. The director is the Maestro. Correct. Right. Always. And I only work with auteurs. You only work with Maestros. I only work with Maestros.

I'm very selective. Like you're specific. Oh, you know, fuck who, you know, fuck, who, you know, who's the director who's bad? I don't know, Len Wiseman? Len Wiseman, he's not a maestro.

He's not a maestro. I turned on every Wiseman picture. You keep getting offered. I keep getting offered. I've turned on four consecutive Underworld movies.

Yeah, you kept throwing Underworlds at you. Yeah. Oh, boy. I refuse to play either a Lycan or a, I don't know what the other ones are called.

I think they're just vampires. Are they? Don't they have another name? The Lycans are the werewolves. They are. Don't the vampires have some code name, or are they just called vampires? Vampires and Lycans.

Okay. Is one of them called... She's a vampire? No. Yes. She is. Yes. She's not like a vampire hunter.

Huh? Who is... It's Kate Beckinsale, of course. Oh, it's Kate Beckinsale. There's 15 years of, I feel, Beckinsale and Wiseman and Mila and Paul W.S.

Anderson. I get these pairings mixed up. The Resident Evil and The Underworld. And then both of them occasionally stepping outside to do other screen gems. Where they're still basically like wearing a leather jacket and kind of just doing the same thing, but it's not. But it was just like the two married couple franchises.

But there's one underworld that Beckinsale is not. Maybe the Rise of the Lycans? Yeah, when the Lycans rose. That's the prequel. That was when they were just like, okay, so Kate's not in Nighy on the poster? Let's just put Nighy on the poster. I think Michael Sheen's first film.

Michael Sheen, Bill Nye, Rona Mitra. Right. Because the whole thing is that it's Romeo and Juliet. With Speedman as Romeo?

Yes. And he's a werewolf. And then, at least for the first movie. A liken of sort. Bill Nye is one of, he's the vampire father. Bill Nye is the head

of the vamps. Right. And I believe Sheen is the head of the, the Montague or the Capulet, whatever. Right. It's just funny

that they were like, I don't know. It's nice. Put something on there. The other thing is, at the time of it. The Montague or the Capulet, whatever. It's just funny that they were like, I don't know. It's nice. Put something on there. The other thing is, at the time of making the first Underworld film, I believe, if not married, Kate Beckinsale and Michael Sheen were at least strongly together, had a child together. And then she leaves him for Len Wiseman.

And then they were like, Michael, you gonna do the sequel? And he's like, I mean, gig's a gig. And then he's even doing the movies that she's not in. Sheen is famously chill about this stuff. There was some video of Sheen and David Tennant roasting each other. Did you see this? They must have been doing a podcast or something.

No, I was going to point out the Uma Thurman Stern clip that was making the rounds. Still love him. Of, yeah, talking about Ethan Hawke and Stern being like, he cheated on you. And she's like, so? Right. Cool.

Get over it. Cool thing for a girl to say. Because this is the thing. I feel like when we were younger, hawk and stern being like he cheated on you and she's like so right cool get over it cool thing for that is cool because this is the thing i feel like when we were younger things like that it was like you know you'd read the magazines right and it was like ethan hawk like is banished to like bad boy territory forever for doing this unpardonable sin or whatever and often then you dig into it michael sheen capeale they're like oh we're friends we have a kid together yeah it's all good we did like four more

we all fucked each other yeah I don't know maybe I'm wrong maybe Ethan Hawke is bad no way I'm not buying it yeah it was it was Crudup who was the most yes oh well yeah because she was pregnant right when he left her my mom like won't watch

Billy Crudup in anything. And if he's in something, she's like, you know what? I'm not interested. Yeah. And I'm like, he's good. Crudup and Watts ending up together is interesting. Crudup and Naomi Watts ending up together? Yes, currently together.

She was with Leave. I know. I didn't even know this. Yeah. She left Leave. She left Leave. 50 ways to leave your leave. She made the decision to leave.

Fiber. I didn't know that. I had no idea. I once saw them together on the platform and asked her place. Leave in Watts and at least one child. Yeah. And I thought, there they are.

There they are. No, Watts and Crud up together now is interesting energy is weird i feel like we don't want to talk about it later i feel like i'm just watching you all sort of dance around the topic well when we know james mason just set us on some weird path what's up you know i do you think we're trying to avoid talking about the movie in question today there was like the late 90s early 2000s thing where I think that entire actor scene of like Patricia Clarkson, Campbell Scott, Stanley Tucci. Like there was like four or five couples that all seemed to keep crossing over. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then I feel like Lee and Watts were like right hovering outside of that. Mary Louise Parker and Crudup right outside of that. All that like sort of like they're movie stars stars but they're also serious New York theater actors. Right. People. Right, right, right. Yeah. And it always just felt like

there was internal drama and couple swap and then shit like that. She met Crudup on the set of Gypsy. Which we all remember. The Netflix show Gypsy. I remember.

It felt like the first Netflix show where people were like oh Netflix shows can be dog shit. Right. Netflix not. Netflix having a show

is no longer automatically interesting. They can have like a prestige show starring Academy Award nominees. It's funny how that always happens to poor Naomi Watts where she's like, no, I'll do my Netflix show. And I'm like, not interested. Hold the shutter down. Right.

See you later. We gotta make as many Game of Thrones prequels as possible. And then she films one and they're like, except for this one. Yeah, no. This one we're not doing. Put this next to Batgirl. Yeah, caught up.

Who knew? Well, you know what? What? Great up. Thank you. Ben, you want to hit stop? Ben, wrap it up. I'm joking.

I'm excited to talk about Lolita. I'm not. Listen, hey everybody. Oh. Come on. This is a podcast. A blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies. I really bungled that. Yeah, that was weird. I made that name. Did you get nervous? Do you get nervous to record?

No. No. You sound nervous. Maybe the only time I would get nervous these days is with some sort of like fancy guest. And you are one of them,

so that's why I'm nervous. Thank you. Blockbuster Fran Hoffman. It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks,

make whatever crazy, passionate products they want, and sometimes those checks clear, sometimes they bounce baby. This is a pretty good example. Of a what? Of someone cashing in a check. I would say so, because this is post-Spartacus, correct?

Yeah. Which is Kubrick's most successful film. Directed the highest grossing film of its year. And was the biggest hit of its year so that's one reason he probably gets to make Lolita but of course I think it's also the fact that Lolita was despite being controversial

such a best seller that it was automatically like well if you can do that it could be a hit look this movie does have one of if not the single greatest tagline of all time how do they ever make a movie of Lolita? It is perfect. It is a great tagline. And the answer is like

eh, they did an okay job. With great difficulty. Yeah, exactly. But it was like that was the whole fucking marketing hook for this movie of like, what are you talking about? How were they allowed to do that? How was he going to find a way into doing this? I had not seen this

movie since I was in high school. You did see it in high school? I saw it in high school when I was reading the book. When you read the book, sure. They taught that book at your school, right? Because my wife also read it in high school and I was like, this seems like a terrible book to read in high school. Not even the content. It's just too hard.

Am I crazy? No, it's hard. It is, but I'll say this. I've never had to read it for school. I read it on my own while in college. College just feels right. I don't know. It's just like it's a fairly dense book language. Maybe I'm underestimating high schoolers.

I agree. It was absolutely. I was such a skim the book, do bare minimum, watch the movie, avoid it at all costs. Which isn't really going to help you with this one. No, but Lolita was one of the few examples where I was like, page one, I was like, this thing's fucking well written. And I just burned through that thing.

It was like one of my absolute favorite books. I was assigned in high school and the only ones I not only read, but read like thoroughly and passionately. And then was like, and now I get to watch the movie as a bonus. Sure, and it's by Stanley Kubrick. I watched the movie and I was like, this sucks. This is not the movie as a bonus. Sure. And it's a Kubrick film.

I watched the movie and I was like, this sucks. This is not what I like about the book. Hadn't seen it since. Had always been looking to revisit it. And revisiting it very recently for this show, it is, it just hit me almost immediately. Now having the context I didn't have as a high schooler of like, oh, they not only made a movie out of Lolita they made it during the Hays Code yeah and not Dorothy Dorothy Hayes

what's the Hays Code pre MPAA it wasn't like your movie got a rating it just had to pass the sort of like censorship board but it wasn't there was no ratings there was just a list of things you could not do in movies under any circumstances. Wow. And if you got a no, you didn't get to

you know, like you had to get a no. You just couldn't be then released. Yeah, exactly. You're being checked to that code at every stage of development. At script, shooting, editing. And so that tagline is like, can you believe we got

it through the code right oh you know that's what they're saying yeah like it's not just like oh this is a simpler time that's right you may have social mores maybe not but maybe the expression of pre-code movie movies from like the early 30s especially where they're actually raunchier

in a lot of ways right then later because the code didn't exist yet and they were kind of like let me do it that's the thing like there are like silent films with nudity and there are like early 30s gangster films

that are much more hard edged and then there's this 30 year period but it's just fucking long time well yeah yes like shit like

Design for Living where you're like this is the most still sexually impressive thing you've seen that movie Fran? no oh Fran you would fucking love.

Designed for Living? Designed for Living, great movie. Okay. Yes. But then there's this 30-year period where all of Hollywood is like, how do we talk around these things? And it's not just sex,

but it's like crime must pay. You can't have someone who gets away with it. He's got to go to jail or die or whatever.'s not just about what it's a morality that's so weird he was like he was like a fucking archbishop or some shit he was like the archbishop his name was will hayes he was the president of the mpaa i he was just a politician he he was like i think he was the postmaster general at some point. Like, it's just like.

But was it always like, think of the children? Or was it really more like morality? Yes. You know, it's the 30s is when it starts. At the same time, it's like, you know, all kinds of other sort of morality. He went from postmaster general to this? Well, let's see. Or the other way around.

That's sort of a jump. No, he was postmaster General from 1921 to 1922 in the Harding administration. Okay. And yes, he resigned from the cabinet to become the first chairman of the MPAA.

Wow. Now, he didn't institute the Hays Code for 10 plus years. Bizarre jump. Well, you know what? Post? Movies? There's a movie called The Post?

Sure. I hope Louis DeJoy becomes the next head of the MPAA. And he's just like, we can't afford it. No more movies. No more movies.

These things are expensive. No more ratings. You think every movie gets a rating for free? You gotta draw the R every time. Takes a while. Don't come cheap.

Ben, I do think it was less about the children and more about society is collapsing. Right, right. How do we fix things? We need to create standards in society. We need to control

storytelling. Right. And it's just like alcohol is bad. Jazz music is bad. You know, like all these things. We're just like the fucking the we're in 20s, the 30s things have gotten too loose. We gotta fucking pull it back. Art should show you how to live.

Right. And this is a very famous poster depicting everything you can't do in the Hays Code. Okay. So you want me to read you the Ten Commandments? Yes, please. Thou shalt not show the law defeated. Show the inside of a thigh. Lace lingerie?

No. Dead man? No, I don't really know what that means. Narcotics, drinking, exposed bosom, gambling, pointing a gun, or showing a Tommy gun at all. It's like a weird list, right? Yeah, no, I mean, it's of the time, right?

Tommy guns aren't as much of a thing these days. It would be funny if, like, right now, there was a Tommy gun in, a Disney movie and they're like it's getting an R. I don't care. No one even used it. I can't show Tommy guns. You can't show Tommy guns. Yeah, it's the Hays. No, it's a weird and it was like that's why late

this the Hays Code is finally defeated only a couple years after this film. It's technically 68. But yeah, it's basically diminishing in the 60s. And then it's like new Hollywood. That's why there's such a revolution. Yeah.

Finally, they had titties again. Like 69, you're allowed to start talking about 69ing again. But this movie is like Kubrick himself. And this is a minister who's on the films of Stanley Kubrick. Yeah. It's called Pod's Widecast. Our guest today is blockbuster Fran Hoffner. That's me.

Blockbuster's own. Kubrick always said if he knew how difficult it was going to be to make this movie under the Hays Code, he wouldn't have made it. Now, you'd think he's a smart guy. You'd think he could have guessed. It's wild. A man who's so technical and so obsessed with systems and shit like that. Right. He was just like, well, I thought I had a good strategy for how to do it.

And then he got in there and found it was much more difficult and prohibitive than he thought. This book is like a Moby Dick situation where I think people think they have the upper hand on it and they don't for whatever reason. It's sort of Ahab metaphor of like, you know, I haven't pre-thought this out. I'm just coming in with sort of whatever. So you're saying right there, like, I know how to tackle this, and it's like, no, the book is beyond your, you know,

your flimsy imagination. Have you watched the Adrian line version? No. I saw it, you know, 20 years ago. Yeah. I have no memory,

but I thought about re-watching it. Me too. Just as context. It's fucking long. It's long. It's just lame. long it's long and this movie's long i know no i watched like half of it last night yeah and it does it just i was just like i'm too skeeved out by this sure is it skeevier yeah i mean i remember just like it was one of those like classic sleepover rental things where we were like teenagers and we were like oh my god this is

gonna be fuck and it wasn't it was like me and a bunch of girls. And then it was like 20 minutes and we were like, this is boring. We were teenagers. We were not. It's sort of just an unadaptable book in a way that I think a lot of.

Nabokov is unadaptable. But not only is it unadaptable, I think, and I agree, but two pages into this book, I would just be like, oh, how would I do this? You get it. It's plainly unadaptable.

It's so voicey, and the prose is so rich and dense that that is never going to be something that succeeds on the big screen, so all you can take is the premise. Right. And that premise is tough. The premise is tough. It's something you don't want to have to actually witness. And not only that, it's very hard to put people in the situations to enact it but i don't know but it's

also just like it's boring like you know a lot i mean like just like literally like putting shit on screen like a lot of it is just them having these like sort of charged conversations of the book are not that interesting what is interesting is the internal life of this guy. Yeah, and that prose is riveting, which is sort of what they really can't

figure out how to translate is like this was a real page turner book for me. And this movie is kind of dramatically patchy, I guess. Absolutely.

Very saggy at times. And the Adrian Line version does the voiceover and it like lifts as much of the language as possible, which feels like the smart move to do if you're trying to do the anti-Kubrick Lolita like 30 years later. But the

second you have Jeremy Irons in full like broken skis ball, like Jeremy Irons, I'm in Dead Ringers, Reversal of Fortune, I love playing these cursed men and butterfly roles. The second you have him reciting that dialogue, you're just like, this is unbearably sad.

This is just the most pathetic broken man in the world. I don't want to live with this guy. Which, you know, Mason does kind of get there at the end. And I think the point of view of this movie hates this guy enough for it to kind of work where he's both tragic and funny. Right. But it's so weird because it's like, to some degree, he's kind of work where he's both tragic and funny. Right. But it's so weird because it's like, to some degree,

he's kind of like a comic fool. To another degree, he's so much more sort of like charming and sophisticated than the character ever reads in the book. But in other ways,

he's so much more pathetic and skeevy than the character ever reads in the book. Oh, so a guy in academia? Just kidding. Yes, but yes. The latter half, like, where he's, like, bickering

with her, that's where it's, you're, like, you're just like, oh, God, he's so pathetic. Like, that's where you're really, I'm really losing interest in the action on screen. Yeah, once it sort of... I'm just like, I can't deal with this guy anymore. Hivits from, like, are they gonna get

away with it to, like, can he even make this from like are they gonna get away with it to like can he even make this work it's sort of like well i don't want him to make it work so and exactly and it's like beyond any moral it's like she's a teenager like what do you think's gonna happen like she's gonna have teenaged things she wants to do like when he's arguing with her about like doing the play and all that i'm just sort of, the fuck do you think she just wants to hang out with you? You suck. The other weird thing about this movie. What is he a professor of again?

French literature. Yeah. You don't want to talk about Flaubert with this guy for a couple hours? No, not that guy. But then he is James Mason. So sometimes you are like, look, I mean, he's James Mason. I'm charmed.

Or I'm at least, you know, I'm interested I mean he's James Mason I'm charmed or I'm at least you know I'm interested like he's interesting to watch and talk. I feel like this is the thing that I feel like I will hear actors say this a lot when they sort of people who love James Mason are obsessed with him as a movie star

he's a great movie star. Will say like and the fucking courage to do that role at that time at that point in his career. Like that's the thing that separates him from the other movie star. We'll say, like, and the fucking courage to do that role at that time, at that point in his career. Like, that's the thing that separates him from the other movie stars. Yeah.

Is that, like, that on paper should be the most ruinous thing to do. Where if you do it well, you're gonna get tagged with it forever. And if you do it poorly,

it's embarrassing. And he's actually weaponizing his own screen persona. He's not trying to create some new character to fit into this project. It is kind of incredible he makes it out of this movie

like alive. Oh, totally. You know? He might give the best. I mean, I don't think there's really a single weak performance in it. I think there's good performances and weird performances. No, I like all four performances. I think they're all interesting. Yeah. But they all have such different effects on the movie. No, I like all four performances. I think they're all interesting.

Yeah. But they all have such different effects on the movie. Yeah, sure. I mean, we're just going straight into the meat of this thing because I don't know how else we talk about it. But it's another weird thing about, like, the exact moment in time this movie was made that I don't think is as much of a thing if this film is made five years later is,

you know, the character in the book is 14 or 12 and she's aged up in this to 14 right and sue line at the time is 16 no she's 14 this is okay so this is the whole thing yeah i know that she's actually young in this movie yes i even thought she was two years older than she was right watching this, it feels like a 25-year-old playing a teenager. She does read old. There's no question. But I think that's so much the child acting style of that moment. Sure.

Right? Where she's like giving like a Hayley Mills performance where it's like, there are no naturalistic child performances of this time. She's got a lot of poise or whatever. Like an Andy Hardy movie or whatever. Child performers at that time I I think, are either pitched up or pitched down, but they're not playing right to, like, sort of the

L.C. Fisher, eighth grade kind of thing where you're like, oh, this is genuinely what a 13-year-old is like. Right, like, if this movie's made five years later, you have someone giving, like, a Jodie Foster-esque performance. Right, right, right. But at this moment, you have someone giving, like, an Andy Hardy, like, live-actionney movie style performance

in a provocative film where i'm just the whole time like i know this is actually a child and somehow it feels like an adult playing a kid on a teen show which lends such an odd air to the thing i guess i don't know i mean my whole thing is with the book, which I read years ago, and I reread for this podcast. You did. I did. You told me not to do that. Well, I didn't want to stress you out.

Oh, I see. I just said, like, you don't have to do it. Because you said, oh, maybe I'll reread. And I was just trying to be like, relax. I really wanted to reread. Okay. If I had known. It's actually really you forbade her from rereading.

She wanted to do it. And Fran's her own woman. David doesn't like me when i'm reading you know he hates you you start getting ideas yeah well it's funny because my memory of this book was like they go on a road trip and then it ends but it is sort of like yeah they go on a road trip and then it kind of just ends yeah yeah that is the book it's not heavily plotted which is maybe why well i mean and kubrick says this and i'll read some quick from later but like you know the first chunk of the book is you being like is he is this just going to be about him being obsessed with someone from afar or is there going to be movement and then there's suddenly movement right she died you know all that happens

very quickly and you're like holy shit and then the road trip part is sort of like you know there's some suspense to that, obviously. And there's all this stuff with the hotel that there's not really, you know, all the hotel visits. But it's why he moved the Quilty killing up to the top of the movie is he's like,

otherwise the balloon is deflated. And then something shocking happens at the end. Right. If I have a sense of inevitability hanging over. I think the right decision. Yeah. I get, I,

or I understand the decision from the film perspective, 100%. But then, like you say, then it's just kind of like, okay. It also then makes it so much of a quilty movie. Whoa.

Which then the performance is only intensified, but you're like, the whole movie is about like, who the fuck is this guy? Whereas in the book, that's less of a thing. That guy is not that weird.

No. And it takes a very long time for you to really clock like oh there you know this there is a person he's he should be worried about right it's much more abstract he is always looking over his shoulder and like wait who's this and like you know but like obviously it's not like and then i talked to a guy with weird glasses you know like it's not exaggerated like the thing yeah well you know there has to be something it's i mean like what the no i'm saying he's like the thing like john carpenter's the thing like he's like the thing. Yeah, well, you know, there has to be something. I mean, like, what the fuck? No, I'm saying he's like the thing. Like, John Carpenter's the thing.

Like, he's this, like, shape-shifting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is disturbing the ecosystem here? What is the threat I can't identify? I reread, but I reread the book, and I was, again, just astonished. Right, like, it is, the whole experience of it is you being in his head,

and his just like layers of sort of self aggrandizement and justification and patheticness. And like, it's just so fascinating to read and it's so beautifully written. And I just, again, was reading it and I was like, yeah,

no wonder this movie doesn't totally work. Like how the fuck do you put any, this is, this is literally just James Mason darting his eyes around is how you dramatize that. I don't know. Like how do you do that? Not,

not only that, but like the whole origin of this book is Nabokov being like, I'm so fucking good at writing. Everyone tells me my prose is untouchable. Let me give myself a real challenge. What's like the hardest protagonist to make relatable in any way? Oh, write a book about a pedophile.

Like that was his whole thing was here's like the most sort of monstrous archetype in our society. And I'm going to try to write a book inside of this guy's head that at least makes you see the world through his eyes and understand him, if not like him. Sure. Which he succeeds in doing pretty much by the virtue of being better at prose than anyone. He's pretty good. Yeah. But you're like, oh, the thing that sells that is his command of language. of being better at prose than anyone. He's pretty good, yeah. But you're like, oh, the thing that sells that is his command of language.

And the second you try to move that into a different medium, you're like, well, then how do you fucking do this? I would agree with that. Fran, do you have book thoughts that you want to, I know I forbade you from reading the book and I eternal sunshined you so you don't have, you don't remember the book.

I also burned every copy of it. I did. I got it out of here. No, I was looking up if there have been other adaptations of different Nabokov works that I know of

and I don't think there have been. I've only otherwise read Ben Sinister and Panin, which are the books that happen on either side of Lolita, and I think are also quite obsessed with academia and men in academia. But Ben Sinister is this nasty, mean-spirited political satire that I have to say I really loathe reading. And then Penine

is just sort of maybe one of the nicest books of all time about an academic who's just having a wonderful life right and it's just episodic and nice and it's funny that this comes in between those but that no one even would try to go for what he's doing outside of this because it's either too esoteric because general populace does not care about the lives of academics nor should they right or it's like just nothing happens. Right. They're just prose exercises. There's that movie, The Lusion Defense,

which I've never seen. Oh. With John Turturro and Emily Watson. That is based on a book by Vlad himself. Okay. That I have read and liked. I never saw the movie. I heard it was boring.

Yeah. Yeah. He's one of those guys who it just feels very difficult to adapt because it really is about the language. And it's like if you lay out what's happening in the book, there aren't really the bones of a dramatic story there. The Illusion Defense is also about chess, which is hard to dramatize

until, of course, Annie Taylor-Joy came along. Yeah, sure. Chess queen. That's a dumb, griffin-brained analogy, right? Here we go. But there's that period where Stan Lee was just like, everything I'm fucking putting out, it's a hit. Every time I have to create a new character,

I'm going to fucking challenge myself to create the least appealing character possible. Where Iron Man was like a dare to himself. Where he was like like all the kids reading my books are like uh hippies like peace-loving liberal hippies who are into like hallucinogenics and shit i'm gonna write like a comic book about a like capitalist war profiteer i'm gonna make them fucking like this guy um and lolita was like that stage of Nabokov's career where he was just like, fuck it, I'm coming for you.

I can win over the audience on anything. I mean, that's a cool artistic challenge for anyone regardless of medium. I just think that it gets tricky in adaptation because then you're not the person who came up with this challenge. Therefore, you'll never have the inner workings of like why that challenge does or doesn't work.

Well, and the reason I bring up my analogy is that, like, over time, he found, like, oh, I was wrong. People actually just like Iron Man as a power fantasy. Sure, yeah. I didn't have to sell them on this guy and his inner turmoil. They were just like, it'd be cool to have all the money

and a robot suit. And then you get to a world where, like, Iron man just rules our pop culture because everyone wishes they could just fucking be iron man but you can't do that with humbert humbert no you can't just be like let's just give into the fucking power fantasy we all obviously want to be humbert humbert silly name he's got it's the same name twice it's one of the silliest names. What's going on there? What's his name? My name is Mr. Humbert and I have a kid. I'm like, well, we can't call him Humbert, obviously.

That'd be weird. Let's immediately cross one name off of this. Let's just... It feels like that meme image of that woman crossing off the names on the chalkboard. Ashlyn and Kaylee when it's all spelled like it's a yes. But then the last one is Humbert.

Have you seen that? No. It's sort of an old meme. Classic meme. Remember how good the chess show was? Sorry, I haven't let it go. Queen's Gambit? I never watched it.

Queen's Gambit, and I think you and I would agree on this, and The Bear. Two great shows where not a lot of episodes watched them all in two and a half days time of my life those are two of my favorite TV shows of what I consider the current era of TV the dog shit era there was the golden age it ended we're in the dog shit age

meanwhile we were talking right before record producer Ben I was telling him about main cabins main cabin masters fucking Oh, he's into main cabins? Yeah. Yeah, main cabin masters fucking rules. Well, Ben's watching main cabin masters.

And I was talking about good late season eight episodes of Night Court. Yeah, you were. And Ben was like, how do you fucking have the time to watch all these old sitcoms

and keep up? And I was like, the answer is I don't keep up. Yeah, you've never watched Queen's Gambit. Never watched an episode of The Bear. Oh, that's fun. It's funny. Yeah, it don't keep up. Yeah, you've never kept up. Never watched Queen's Gambit. Never watched an episode of The Bear. Oh, that's fun.

It's funny. Yeah, it's a good meme. Yeah, I just, if there's discourse around a show, I'm like, maybe I'll watch that in 10 years when no one's arguing over it. She's also like barely pregnant. It's such a weird photo. Oh, it's so funny.

What's the backstory on this? She posted this being like, I selected my baby name and she had written four unintelligible names and selected a fifth so they're taylee mccarty navy navy maylee and then she ended up at lackland it's just one of those classic laken laken laken but just one of those things she's just like you know we all think we want to call our kid mccarty too like it's just like we're like what what what are you talking about right because then she'll be like mccarty. Too odd. You know, like, it's just like, we were like, what, what, what are you talking about? Right,

because then she'll be like McCarty O in her class. Two McCartys. Four of them in the fucking daycare. You know, the teachers will be, McCarty,

and a bunch of kids will swarm her. Were there other Davids in your class? Did you have to be a David S? Only in the second grade was I David S. There was one other David.

David was not a very popular name when I was a kid. I think it's maybe had a bit of a rebound. Well, because of this show. There was never another Griffin. Baby Nameless came out. David Griffin and Ben are the top three boy names? The hell? Fran's number one on the crowd.

Ben Dusser is one of the top names right now. Ben Dusser. Poet Laureate. That's not a name. No, it was like post-Twilight when like Jacob and Edward were the top two names for three years. Can someone make a meme of me in front of the chalkboard and then there's like all my nicknames, please? Someone do that, please. Please do that.

You know, we have a saying in our family. Use sports. Don't let sports use you. Hi, it's Jeff Merrick from 32 Thoughts to Podcast. Are you a sports parent, rep sports, travel sports, whatever you call it? If you're like me, you know that one of the great joys of having your kid or kids play sports is travel. You know, our families use sports to see different parts of the world, meet new people, and stay in a number of different places. Recently, we've started using Airbnb. The kids love it because it feels like a sleepover at a new friend's house, while my wife and I enjoy more space, a proper bed, and mostly

a washing machine. That really comes in handy for baseball trips. Trust me. In fact, it was on a baseball trip last summer when my wife sent me a text after the first night saying, do you think we could do this? Look, if you've ever stayed at an Airbnb, you've probably wondered the same thing. Could our place be an Airbnb? And now that our kids have also discovered the joys of skiing. In addition to travel hockey and travel baseball, we're on the move even more. While our house just sits there. Why not make a little extra money to cover some costs, right? We have friends who travel south every winter

and they Airbnb their place. Why not? Look, if you want to make a little extra cash, and who doesn't need that these days, maybe your home could be the way to make it happen. Find out how at Airbnb.com. Lolita. Lolita.

It's a 1955 novel written by Russian-American novelist Vladimir Nabokov. Nabokov? Nabokov. Nabokov, I think. I'm pretty sure. I was corrected by someone who's read the sweep of them. Nabokov. Nabokov. Nabokov.

Nabokov. Yeah, I don't know anything. It's that middle syllable that gets the punch, but you can do whatever you want with it, you know? It was one of those classic books that came out, and everyone decided it was totally good and fine. What year did it come out, David? Well, 1955. Okay. No one ever thought about it.

It came out. It was turned down by almost every major publisher, right? It was published in France first. Yeah. Classic. By, you know, whatever. Hill surprise, as they say over there. Much like this episode turned down by almost every potential guest

before Fran came in for the save. I'm one of the braver people. Truly. To be up here on a podcast. It wasn't like David Nevin, for example, where it's like, you can't be in that movie. We'll talk about the people, Olivier, the people who turned down that. It was more where people were like It wasn't like David Nevin for example Where it's like you can't be in that movie We'll talk about the people Olivier, the people who turned down It was more just people being like

Well I'd rather not No they're afraid They're cowards They're afraid, I'm brave You are brave You're in your brave era I'm in my brave era, yeah We talk about Fran's brave era all the time

That means she's watching horror movies Yeah I've started watching horror movies It i've started watching watching horror movies yeah um it was published in france by olympia press most of a publisher mostly of quote-unquote pornographic trash okay um and it had this reputation almost to me graham green immediately called it one of the best books of the year it got like early raves oh you don't like graham no? No, I think that's a crazy shot to shoot. And he shot it. You shot it? Yeah. He was in his

brave era. Yeah, I mean, truly. And then it was the classic thing of not only was it literarily well regarded quickly, but because it was so controversial, that only fueled interest. You have to read it to have people were banning it and people are like running to you know get ahead of every band

that period where if something was controversial people would actually take the time to read it before having an opinion well i don't know if that's true i think a lot of people were not reading lolita okay that was the whole thing sure it's not a particularly prurient prurient book in its content it's all the ideas there's nothing explicit really described in the book it's not a particularly prurient book in its content it's all there's nothing explicit really described in the book it's not a I was going to say I have the opposite reaction to hearing something like that where when I hear something's the best book

of the year I'm like who cares who cares I want to read something that someone was a little more equivocal on because that's maybe more compelling but that's something that I think is legitimately a great book got that kind of early praise that i think that's worthy of is like oh okay especially because it was a edgy position for someone to stake their credibility on totally yeah there's so much that's been written and said about the book the movies as well but

especially the book and i do recommend jamie loftus' recent podcast about it. There's a lot of other stuff like that. You can dig into that. It's too much. It's too much. I'm not going to give you all the context on the book. I will tell you about Stanley Kubrick, though. Please. He covered some of this in our Spartacus episode because he was really, this was his obsession for about

five years. But also, he was long working during that sort of era on One-Eyed Jacks, which is the movie that Marlon Brando, a Western that Marlon Brando eventually just directed himself. And he exits One-Eyed Jacks and announces he must exit in a statement because Mr. Brando, etc. know that I want to commence work on Lolita. And whether or not that's true, like, I think they also existed just because him and Brando had a lot of clashes. But, you know, that was it.

He announced, like, I'm leaving to do Lolita. He's also got this five-picture deal with Kirk Douglas. Two movies end up getting done before Kirk Douglas releases him. And it's largely because Kirk Douglas is like, I don't want anything to do with this movie. Right. I don't want to do it. I'm not going to play Humber.

I don't want to produce it. God be with you, but like, I'm not getting near this thing. This is all happening in 1958. That's when he quits One-Eyed Jackson. That's when Lolita

becomes a bestseller in America. It reaches our shores. And unlike in Britain where it was banned, it just becomes a big hit. Swifty Lazar, a famed old Hollywood manager agent type. One of the greatest names in history. Pretty cool name.

Owned the screen rights. And basically says, you're going to have to give me 150 grand even to start work on this movie. He's charging an entry fee. They work out some kind of a deal with him. And this is sort of Harris raising the money for Kubrick? Correct.

And Harris, who's the producer, obviously, James Harris, has to sell his rights to the killing, I think, back to United Artists to get the money to buy the rights to Lolita from Lazar. Wow. So he really is, like, putting his ass on the line.

Yeah. Kubrick says, it's one of the great love stories of Lolita. Here, I'm going to give you some quotes. He points to a Lionel Trilling piece that called it the first great love story of the 20th century, using as his criteria the total shock and engagement with the lovers, which the lovers and all great love stories of the past have produced on the people around them.

If you consider Romeo and Juliet, Anna Karenina, Madame Bovary, the red and the black, they all had one thing in common, the element of the illicit or at least what was considered illicit at the time. And in each case it caused their complete alienation from society by the 20th century it's it's difficult to he's saying like there's nothing that's illicit anymore right sure so he says like lolita succeeds in this classic tradition by you know being so shocking yeah and nabokov is brilliant and withholding any indication of the author's approval of the relationship.

I'm reading this just because I think you need this context. I do think it's interesting how he articulates it. I may, you know, confuse people as well. I don't know. But I should read this, right?

Yes, yes, yes. I love this line at the end that he says. It isn't until the very end when Humbert sees her again four years later and she's no longer by any stretch of the definition and quote-unquote nymph it, that the really genuine and selfless love he has for her is revealed, which is true in a way.

Like, that is what's so sort of crazy about the ending, is you're like, oh, he's beyond whatever initial obsession we understand here. But it's also so sad and pathetic and depressing when he's giving that speech at the end. Yeah. But Kubrick is very compelled by this. Sure. But I also, I mean,

this gets to maybe some of my core issues with the movie where I feel like a lot of that oversimplifies the dynamics of what's going on in this book. Which I think are very often like four or five things going on in different directions at the same time. Right. And Kubrick seems to keep on just picking one

and drawing very straight lines. I would agree with that. Because this is being called a comedy. That's, I mean, it's almost like he's forced to make it a comedy because you can't make it anything else. The seller's stuff is outright comedic. Yeah, I think it really has to be funny

because if you think too hard about what is going on, it's too sad and too horrible. Right. Sort of also my note with old. You're not going to be able to really talk about anything. I mean, that's the other thing. So you, Fran, you brought your big lolly. You went to see to be able to really talk about anything. I mean, that's the other thing. So you, Fran, you brought your big lolly. You went to see this movie at Film Forum.

Yeah, I brought my giant lollipop to Film Forum. Anyone wants to know what that's in reference to, just Google Fran Hoffner lollipop. Yeah, I guess so. So we're going to talk about the lolly a lot more. Yeah, we can talk about the lolly. I brought my lollipop up. I ate the lollipop maybe for the first 40, 45 minutes, and then I got sick of it. For those who don't know, and I, once again, implore you, look up the article,

look up the photo, but Fran's talking about a classic giant skull-shaped, sized, not skull-shaped, but skull-sized, giant, swirly,

pinwheel lolly. Yeah. That I sort of, in bad faith, pitched to work that I was going to eat one and write about it and then they were like,

you should do that. Your take was, this is sort of seen as the ultimate candy. And no one eats them. Who actually has ever gotten a giant lolly? Yeah. And then there's some, you know, some stipulations were put into place that kind of like as a as a health class taking care of a fake baby. I also could just not go anywhere in public without the lollipop. I didn't have to be eating it, but I always had to have it on my person. Yes. And because the lollipop is so big, it's not a lollipop that could just be put in my

mouth and left there. I had to hold it. Right. So it was easiest to do when I was not doing anything, e.g. watching a movie. Yes. Great opportunity to just put some time in on the lollipop, which is what I did for the first chunk of Lolita. Yeah. A two and a half hour movie. A two and a half hour movie, first 45 minutes, laughter with my friends and peers and loved ones around me, in part because Lollipop, at that point in time,

though nearing its end, too big still to fit in my mouth, kind of just glommed onto it. Just a horrible experience. Yeah. Humiliating, non-sexual. Someone's at the door. Man, I think there's an ad read coming

oh jeez yeah I better check I saw this at Film Forum as well I went to different screens on different days at Film Forum

at the time of recording this has been doing this 63, 64, 65 series 62 63, 64 because it's also with Jewish Museum and film at Lincoln Center.

Right. It's cool. It's cool. I mean, they played Strangelove as well the day after we recorded our episode, which was annoying,

but it was nice that I got to see this on a big screen. This is a good one to be locked in the room. Absolutely. And look, I will say,

like, at the time of recording this, once attention wanders watching this, Barry Lyndon's playing like a week from now in the city and Ben are going to

see that I'm so no better experience than seeing that movie I hate watching these Kubrick movies at home yeah for so many reasons yeah and I'm just excited anytime

one of these screenings lines up where I can like just get ahead of it see in a theater get my full attention and then lock in my brain well I saw Kubrick he did

Mrs. Harris goes to Paris right I saw that yeah yeah he came back for that one. He rose from the grave. He rose from the grave. Yeah. He's going to Paris in this economy. I mean, that's an old book.

He could have. It is an old book. Maybe he read it. He might have read it and been like, pass. But the book is called like, Oh, Mrs. Harris. Oh, God, now she's in Paris. It's even more silly.

Isn't it literally called... It's apostrophe A. I was going to say, it's Mrs. Harris. Oh, God, now she's in Paris. It's even more silly. Isn't it literally called? It's apostrophe A. I was going to say, it's Mrs. Harris. Mrs. Harris goes to Paris. Yeah, right. But she does so much. She becomes like an MP or something.

Oh, like in their sequels? The title's not going to give it all away. Yeah, there's like five or six of them. Right, yeah. Franchise, franchise. Okay, franchise, franchise. Hello, Disney. She's doing well.

She's up to 10 mil domestic. Is she a 10 mil? I think she's a 10 mil. And I'm sure that movie's cleaning up, you know, in Britain. You know, those movies do. I'm saying 10 mil domestic. Britain, that's just great. Britain, it's been number one for a month, you know?

Britain, it's the Top Gun Maverick. You haven't seen it? No, I need to see it. You know who's so handsome in it? Wait, you haven't gone to Paris? What the fuck is the matter with you? And I've seen some other bullshit lately. Exactly.

You know who's so hot in it? Who? Jason Isaacs. He is very hot. Fuck. he's playing like a working class bookie too he's like oh you don't want to action it's crazy i love this era of jason isaac so much it is a good era of jason isaac and there's not really a bad era of jason isaac but uh it is a good era what why haven't you seen that i don't't know. I'm fucking up my life. You're texting me being like, I gotta see a movie tonight, but it's between, you know,

a love song and... And Minions, Rise of Minions. And I'm like, what's going on here? The location stuff keeps on fucking me up. I feel like I'm also vaguely waiting to see Mrs. Harris with Rom, because that feels like such a Rom movie. Oh, yeah, but I mean, you know,

she's not gonna be in Paris forever. I know, I know, you know, she's not going to be in Paris forever. I know. I know. I know. I'm going to go see it this weekend. It's my highest priority movie. You haven't seen Bullet Train yet. No. Honey, don't bother. You did see League of Super Pets. I did. You've seen Nope. I saw it in 40X. I saw Nope twice.

You haven't seen Thor Love and Thunder. No. You've seen Nope and IMAX? Yeah. Worth. Rips. I gotta. So good. I gotta. I mean, I saw it at like the you haven't seen Thor Love and Thunder no you've seen Open IMAX yeah worth rips I gotta so good I gotta I mean I saw it at like the

AMC Empire IMAX but I haven't seen it in the like the big old the aspect ratio changes are big on that movie um have you seen you've seen Top Gun Maverick

has Gru risen for you no you've never seen any of those I've never seen any of them did the crawdads sing for you they haven't I've yet to hear their song. They remain silent?

They remain silent. I await their siren call. You didn't go to Easter Sunday dinner? No. You've seen Elvis. I have. You answered the black phone. I did.

You went to Jurassic World's Dominion. I did, yeah. You refused to see Vengeance. On principle. Yes. Mrs. Harris, you've not gone to Paris. My most anticipated movie this summer. But you did strap on the shoes for Marcel.

I did. You know the best part of Black Phone is when he's so sick of that Black Phone reunion and he's picking it up and he's going, what? Yeah. So funny. Fucking more dead kids.

Yeah. Another one. Resurrection? No, I need to see Resurrection. Check that out. You love Becca Hall. No, I know. Resurrection, Mrs. Harris, top of my list. And the director's a blankie see Resurrection Check that out You love Becca Hall No I know Resurrection Mrs. Harris

Top my list And the director's a blankie Of Resurrection But only last Love song What did you think of it Not a fan Yeah

I mean Am I brave enough for Resurrection I'm curious Yes Okay You're in a brave era It's mostly What aren't you brave enough for

I don't know Vengeance That's a good question I'm not brave enough for that Yeah I'm not brave enough for that What I'm not brave enough for that. What is that? It's the BJ Novak podcaster in Texas movie. I mean, that's the title of a movie that could

be about literally anything, you know? Yeah, it's funny that that's what it's called. It should be called like Marcel the Shelter Shoes on. I've also been seeing a fair amount of rep screenings like Lolita to bring things back. Fair enough. I've been checking out rep screenings when I can. I just try to get in there and see shit.

The rep stuff is great this summer. Yeah, there's been good rep shit this summer. I saw Heat at IFC. Oh, baby. Heat, remember that movie? People should see it. It's the 4K restoration.

It's the heat. Yeah, exactly. Well, that was up to Nick Lachey weather. They should rename it air conditioning. That's what they should call it. This is what happened, though,

at Film Forum Lolita just to bring it back. This is what happened though at Film Forum Lolita just to bring it back. This is what I want to talk about. I got too cold. Well, the classic thing where you're not going to bring a sweater. It's hot outside

but then you're in the theater and it's cold. It was so hot that day and I got so cold. I got so remember packing a thing, sweater, into the bag.

Also, long ass movie but this is what I was going to say. I don't know what your experience was like. Maybe that lolly was, like, messing with your nervous system. I haven't recovered. It's an Arctic mint lolly, too, right? God, I wish. I don't

know how much your lolly changed the sort of temperature of the theater. Not literally, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The group psychology of the theater not literally right the the the group psychology of the theater but it's very interesting watching that movie in a room with other people now uh i'm sure it was interesting to watch at the time sure i'm saying but it's like especially now where i think we're living people laughing sometimes peter sellers other times not and other times going like am i

supposed to be laughing at this or not? Like it just, you could feel like the weird tension. And there were, I could feel there are people who are just like, reverence, Kubrick, masterpiece, obviously. And there are people who are looking at this like a cursed object. And there are people who are just like, I don't fucking know what to make of this. And my experience watching the movie was I started to feel like I was hallucinating. my experience watching the movie was I started to feel like I was hallucinating because the more the film starts having to do it's sort of like haze code runarounds to not say the thing that's

happening the more I started to see it as like oh this feels like the lobster this feels like a movie with some weirdly agreed upon bizarre reality where people just say insane things and nod to each other and then move on without explaining them. That's a funny comparison to me. And an apt one, I think, too. That's what it felt like to me. Yeah.

You know, when I watched this when I was in high school and loved the book, I was just like, well, this doesn't get at what I like about the book. I find this movie boring and a slog. And this time I found it like truly bizarre. And I think part of that is the weird tonal, like how much of it is pitched as a comedy,

but then how much it's not even like subtext. It's sort of like they're trying to circumvent the text of the thing. They're not burying it. They're like traffic cones that they're trying to weave between. Yeah. It's just, you know,

you think of like, there's, Humbert is kind of his own antagonist in this film. But once the film loses Shelley Winters, Yes. the threat of Sellers is really not that material.

Right. For quite a while. For both quite a while and in general, he's too zany, I think, to be perceived as like... And also,

you know he's gonna get shot. Right, and you already know... You know what's ending. No, it starts to lose steam the second Shelley Winters is out of the picture.

I think there's another problem, arguably. What's that? Which is, I don't know if this is just a modern perspective thing. Like, I haven't seen this movie since I was like 15,

forgotten most of how the movie plays out relative to the book, whatever. I'm watching it and going, are all these guys supposed to be Quilty? Because I know Peter Sellers is playing all of them, but also, what does Peter Sellers do? Play four characters in a movie. Oh, sure, yeah.

You know? Yeah. Where like, when you get to sure, yeah. You know? Yeah. Where, like, when you get to, like, the cop scene is so bizarre, where you're, like, the tonal reality of this, where you're, like, why is he suddenly affecting a new persona,

and the persona's so specific. Mm-hmm. It's so odd. And then when the next time he shows up, he's got, like, a fucking bald cap. Yeah. And I'm like, so he's got Rick Baker, like, fucking coming,

giving him looks now? He's fucking going to fucking bald cap. Yeah. He's got Rick Baker like fucking coming giving him looks now. He's fucking going to Harvey Fierstein his brother to give him the fucking makeover. Now wait a second. I just think this

Claire Quilty character That's from later in time. Excuse me. As played by Sellers. He should be in this movie and he should go like what do you need from me now? Claire we're gonna make you a star.

Sorry. He's supposed to be a TV writer, or is he a movie writer, or just a screenwriter? He's a playwright who sort of cashed in on TV, I think. He has big TV writer vibes, parentheses derogatory. I think he was sort of like an edgy playwright who crossed over into TV.

He's getting the bag. But he's famous enough that he's like a cigarette spokesperson. Yeah, but you know, back then. Celebrities were whatever. It's also just odd relative to the book how much this movie makes him like an important cultural figure. Like this guy is so fucking hip. Oh, just a whole thing.

Yeah. Sellers is so crazy. I was re-watching when he shows up in Get Back. Well, he had kind of a relationship with the Beatles in general, but that sequence of Get Back is so as unnerving as any time he shows up in Lolita. Peter Sellers is profoundly disturbing. No, I know.

As much as I think he's so funny, like the idea of him in reality, you're like, God, was this because she's the weirdest fucking guy? He's handsome though in this. Yeah, he's handsome. He's a handsome guy. I like his smile. He's got a good smile. He's a very handsome guy. Like an interesting smile.

I like teeth like that. Yeah. You like teeth like that. He's got a good smile. He's a very handsome guy. Like, an interesting smile. I like teeth like that. Yeah. You like teeth like that. He likes seller's teeth. The whole seller's thing that he always said is, like, there's no one there. But what's his famous quote where he's, like... You see that in Get Back, where they're trying to, like, rip with him, and he's giving them nothing. He just, like, doesn't exist other than him being able to affect characters.

Yeah, if he's in character, then he can do something. Right. And all his, like, wives and lovers and friends all said the same thing, where they were just, like, doesn't exist other than him being able to affect characters. Yeah, if he's in character, then he can do something, right? And all his, like, wives and lovers and friends all said the same thing, where they were just like, there's nothing. I think fully dissociating. Yeah, yeah, bordering on, like, sociopathic, where it's like, like, there's the line I'm forgetting, but there was kind of famously, I say famously because it's the fucking, of course, the anecdote that I'm going to lump onto the most.

But when he hosted the Muppet Show, he was like, the only thing I refuse to do. Because they'd always like have a guest host on and they'd be like, are you comfortable singing? Are you comfortable dancing? Do you want to do this? And he's like, the only thing I won't do is appear as myself. And the Muppet Show's whole structure was like backstage. Yeah. And then on stage, they're doing routines.

Yeah. And he was like, backstage I will be Inspector Clouseau. Backstage I will play other characters. And they're like, well, there's a segment where Kermit talks to the guests

as themselves. He's like, that's not happening. I refuse to appear in my neutral form because it doesn't exist. There's no one there. And watching the opening

Claire Quilty scene, I do feel like, is this the closest he's ever come to playing quote-unquote himself in a movie? Like, there's something about the weird Claire Quilty who, like, doesn't know how to exist unless he's affecting another character.

Yeah, he's doing, like, a greatest hits of himself. Right. Right, because the other scenes you're seeing him either be, like, unbearably uncomfortable or needing to hide in some other persona and that opening

scene you're like well now he's just drunk and he's cycling through different bits and lines he's like a malfunctioning robot at the end you're like this guy's kind of hip and cool and handsome and terrifying and like funny and sad at the same time look I got two things to say to you

one well I'll continue the context in a second. Two, Ethan Coen has cast Margaret Qualley and Geraldine Biswanathan in his new movie. Oh. What's the movie? It's like a lesbian road trip comedy set in the 90s that he co-wrote with his wife. Ethan Coen.

Wow. Just telling you. I love Geraldine. Me too. That's why I'm excited. She's so good. It is so weird that they split up. Yeah.

Joel is like, well, I'm going to do Macbeth because, of course, I couldn't write something new without my brother. He didn't quite put it that way. It was like, I feel I don't know what I would do. It was like a Francis project, though. That was part of it. Yeah. That's how they pitched it all their collaborators were like

Ethan just doesn't want to do movies anymore he's interested in plays, he's interested in writing fiction, he doesn't want to do movies and someday he'll come back to Joel and now it's like oh Ethan quietly making movies on his own look we were just talking about a lot of two friends

not friends anymore. What can I tell you? We were saying in podcasting most people actually hate each other and we're still friends. But the Farrelly's broken up. Yeah.

The Farrelly's broken up? Yep. Ah. Each of the Farrelly's have their own movie coming out this year. True. No.

No brother. The Farrelly's, Cohen's, Hughes's have been broken up for a long time. Mm-hmm. There's another one. There's a fifth.

Are the Nolans okay? Well, they've always sort of done their own thing. They sort of ebb and flow. I think they're okay. But they're fine. I think they're okay. Are they okay? How are the Dardens?

Just kidding. They're still together. They're holding down the fort. It's funny that they're brothers. Yeah. Right? And that they make those movies. It's really funny.

And those movies are funny. They're funny. Those movies are are funny. They're funny. Those movies are always all laugh riots. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's what's funny about them being brothers, I think.

Is them making the most sort of grim shit of all time being like, and I'm doing it with my brother. Right. And then turning to each other and being like, we?

Carbon monoxide poisoning? Good. Okay, let's do that. Steals a baby? Good. Okay. Harrison Kubrick. Speaking of all the adaptation stuff that you were talking about.

They ask Nabokov himself to write the screenplay. Nabokov himself. They give him 75 grand. Oh, boy. I'll take it. Nice work if you can get it. Exactly. And he is, of course, the sole credited screenwriter, but they barely used his script.

Right. They basically rewrote it on set. And even we're sort of like, don't even tell him what we're doing. And he kind of just transcribed the book. Right. Yes. I believe the script he submitted was 400 pages long, which is too long. Yeah.

Famously in Hollywood, it's a minute, a minute, a page. And that's too many minutes. What's insane about that is it sounds like he just kind of like reformatted the book but he couldn't like this is an error you can't just copy paste it right look i mean he did eventually yeah but if you know if you got 75 000 to retype your book in courier where you pay someone else five thousand dollars to do that yeah hey i mean i do believe he did finally submit a shorter draft it's not like he literally was just like, here you go. Yeah. Catch.

Right. Think fast, Jimmy. The shorter draft is still like. Probably too long. Every script now that they talk about though, and like the trades, they're like, well,

first draft was 350 pages. They love to say that. Yeah. So as Kubrick says, oh no, sorry, Harris says this, you know,

we weren't satisfied with the script. It was too long. We shot ourselves in a room for a month and rewrote it scene by scene. And then, you know, Sellers comes in and he's improvising on set. Right. And so a lot of that is just Sellers,

which is going to be the same with Strange Love. Right. That Kubrick's like, good, good. Yes, we'll integrate all of this. The retro writing where he would, like, take Sellers' improvs and then pick the right ones and go like,

that's now part of the script. Yeah. Nabokov says about 20% of his screenplay is on screen, but he is the only credited screenwriter and he did get an Oscar nomination.

The film's only Oscar nomination. I always think Sue Lyon got the nomination, but she only got the Golden Globe. Yes, the film got lots of Golden Globe nominations. Right.

It got nominated for James Mason, Shelley Winters, Peter Sellers, Best Director, and Sue Lyon got the Most Promising Newcomer nomination. And she won. She won that. The Oscar, excuse me, given the only Oscar nomination for the screenplay,

even if it is nominating Nabokov. Right, which is probably why they did it. Wild, because the performances of this movie are good and most of its issues exist on the scripting stage. I will say that it is an absolutely stacked,

one of the most incredibly stacked best actor lineups I've ever seen. I'm more thinking of supporting categories, but yes. Yeah, supporting... I mean, not bad. Okay, give me the four acting categories. All right, best actor.

Yeah. The winner, of course, is Gregory Peck in To Kill a Mockingbird. Hmm. One of those where you're like, of course he won.

It's an iconic screen performer. Right. One of the great heroes of American cinema. I believe AFI voted him the number one hero of all time. Number two, and he beat one of the... 100 of American cinema. I believe AFI voted him the number one hero of all time. And he beat one of the...

100 years, 100 heroes. Yeah, right? They did do something like that, right? He beat one of the most famous screen performances of all time, Peter O'Toole as Lawrence of Arabia. And it's the whole thing where you're like, well, how did he not win? And then you're like,

oh, he lost to Gregory Peck playing Atticus Smith. Right. And then he never gets it. And he never got it. He never gets it. And he never got it. He never gets it. But he could get it. At his peak, he could get it. And then you have

Jack Lemmon in Days of Wine and Roses, which is like, you know, Lemmon serious. That's a good performance. You have Marcello Mastroianni in Divorce Italian style. Cool nomination.

Very cool nomination. And then you have Burt Lancaster in Birdman of Alcatraz, where you're like, that's the fifth, and that's a pretty famous performance yeah no i i wouldn't have made it mason over any of them i might not eat i don't know i have seen all those movies i don't know but then give me a supporting actor and actress okay so supporting actor we're like why is sellers not here right yes all right. It goes to Ed Begley. Seen ya! Of course,

for Sweet Bird of Youth. Never seen that movie. Uh-huh. Victor Buono for Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. Kind of a cool nomination. Telly Savalas

for Birdman of Alcatraz. Sloppy Telly. Who loves you, baby. Sloppy Telly. Omar Sharif for Lawrence of Arabia. And then Terrence Stamp for Billy Budd,

which is a crazy good performance. Young Terry Stamp. Yeah. Wow. But, you know, I don't know, maybe kick out fucking Savalas for Lawrence of Arabia and then Terrence Stam for Billy Bud which is an crazy good performance young Terry Stam wow but you know I don't know maybe you kick out fucking Savalas I don't know

he might hit you he's got these like ham hocks good luck trying to kick him out you better have some hearty boots on you and then supporting actress

Patty Duke wins for The Miracle Worker which is category fraud classic category she was the young she played Helen Keller so then Bancroft wins lead. Correct.

Mary Badham, who of course is Scout in another category fraud. She's the little girl in To Kill a Mockingbird. Wow. She's really good though. So Sue Lyon's like pushed out by two other kids is fun. Sue Lyon is the lead in Lolita probably, right? I mean, like, kind of.

I'd probably put Shelly in supporting and Sue in lead if I was done. I mean, like, kind of. I'd probably put Shelley in supporting and Sue in lead if I was... I think they're both kind of supporting, but... And then Shirley Knight in Sweet Bird of Youth. I haven't seen Sweet Bird of Youth. That's Paul Newman, Geraldine Pynne. It's a good movie, I think. Thelma Ritter in Birdman of Alcatraz,

which was fucking cleaning up in the acting categories. And then Lansbury in Manchurian Canada. Who should have won? Yeah, an incredible... It was a good time for movies. It was a good time for movies. Oh, she's so movies oh she's so good you know picture and director yeah david lean's like i'll have those only made the most incredible epic of all time enjoy it uh-huh bancroft as he says wins best actress and that's betty davis katherine hepper and gerald Page, Lee Renwick for Days of Wine and Rose. Like, that's a good time.

Horton Foote beat out fucking Nabokov for adapted screenplay. He did To Kill a Mockingbird. A good win. Yeah, this is what I'm saying. America had To Kill a Mockingbird fever. Mockingbird, mockingbird. Which I think they maybe still do, you know?

Yeah. Sure. It was that weird sequel that came out. Yeah. Yeah, Ghost of the Watchmen. Fucking a bummer. I mean, it was really funny. I know it's kind of a bummer, but it was funny that they were like,

she's releasing another book, and everyone was like, oh my god, amazing! And they're like, and it's a Kill Mockingbird sequel! And people are like, holy shit! And then people are like, she probably never wanted to release this weird exploitation of an old woman, right? And the book comes out and it's just like, holy shit. And then people are like, she probably never wanted to release. This is like weird exploitation of an old woman, right? And the book comes out and it's just like,

Atticus Finch, what a, I was going to say a bad word. Yeah. What an asshole. Yeah. He's just like, I'm so racist

and I hate, I hate everything that I did in the other one. And then apparently it was the first book she wrote and then she scrapped it. Right.

And then they were like, I don't know, maybe Atticus finn should be nice and she's like oh good note okay most successful book ever great cool retired see you later uh pretty wild the whole thing was wild uh no i mean look it's it's the thing with this movie where it's like you have four performances that are all essentially different acting styles that are arguably in different films. But I think all four are pretty great. In this movie? Yeah. I agree. When any two characters are interacting with each other on screen, you're like, what the fuck is going on here?

Which movie am I supposed to be watching? That's fair. And then when you think about some of the other characters, you're like, what would that dynamic be like and shit? I do think Shelley Winters kind of gets at that weird relationship.

I do too. The two of them together, you do... She's so good. She's my favorite performance. She's incredible. People tend to shit on her. She's so plainly... Well, because it's so it's so big it's so big right but i think there's no other way to go character is that character is big big in the book you sort of hate her in the book because she does feel like she's annoying yeah i'm with you this antagonist or whatever and i think the

movie does a fair enough job um empathizing with her while also like I just think the screenplay that exists as it is in the movie basically hates all four of these people but I do think it hates the Shelly Winters character the least actually. I think I think

yes they view her as the only one who is sort of without sin. Yeah and her sin is you know the classic woman's sin of just being annoying.

Right. But I don't know my friend Tess is always like if Shelly Winters is in the classic woman's sin of just being annoying. Right. But, I don't know. My friend Tess is always like, if Shelley Winters is in a movie, it's not ending well for her. No. She plays a lot of tragic figures. She's so operatic in her suffering and her misery.

But, like, watching the Adrian Lyne version, it's Melanie Griffith. Oh, sure. And she's trying to zap. It's like late 90s Melanie Griffith. Okay. Right. She's just like,

well, I know the Shelley Winters performance is infamous. So it's just really quiet. That's not how it should be. She should be loud and kind of annoying and kind of like déclassé. Like the whole...

Like Humbert is just disgusted with her because he's like, I'm classier and smarter than this person. Right. And you're like, you know what? Fucking relax, buddy. Right.

It's the sort of... The lack of self-awareness on the character is the key to the whole buddy. Right. It's the sort of the lack of self-awareness on the character is the key to the whole thing. Yeah. And I think there's sort of a beauty in her lack of self-awareness.

Yes. Two that she brings to it. Or I don't know. Because she is the only person in the movie who's kind of not tortured. She's got a lot of self-doubt,

but sure. Yeah. I don't know i feel i feel for her pretty much immediately yeah she's so desperate to just have a move in yeah she gets to have the sort of great character trope of being maybe the most morally sound but least put together but she but she's looking past the like the thing that's right in front of her. Sure. Right from the beginning when he sees Lolita and he's like, I will move in. Actually, my bags are in my car.

And she's like, what was it? And he was like, your pies. And she's like, oh. And I'm like, come on, man. He just fucking saw your daughter sunbathing. And he's like, oh, yeah. Is this my room? room no this is the kitchen Humbert this was not a

thing that people had to be afraid of until this book people never thought an adjunct could move to your house and do this kind of shit and marry your daughter and kill you it was sort of the reefer madness of his time in that way there was no precedent you need to know the silent

the silent killer adjuncts the threat that looms I guess he has tenure in a In that way. There was no precedent. You need to know the silent killer. Adjuncts? The threat that looms. I guess he has tenure in Ohio. What is he, a speaker? He's just a speaker in their town? Don't you throw your academic language at me. I don't know how it works in the big universities, Francis.

Oh my gosh. Maybe he's on residency. Okay, not all of us went to Kalamazoo and Rutgers. Oh my God. Claiming both. Yeah, are Not all of us went to Kalamazoo and Rutgers. Oh my God. Claiming both. Yeah. Are both Hornets and Scarlet Knights. Is it Hornets?

The Humbert of Boise, Idaho. But I was not that. I was just a person who was in town renting a house. Is it Hornets? Yeah. You were like a. Huh? Are they Hornets?

Kalamazoo is Hornets. And of course, Rutgers is the Knights. Scarlet Knights. Yeah. Yeah. Go Knights. Go Hornets. See, she's.

Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz.

Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz.

Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Buzz. Go Hornets. Buzz Hornet. Sort of a crazy name for a mascot. Buzz Hornet. I'm now just imagining like a Rutgers game with like 90,000 fans.

And it's like, who are these loud guys? Oh, that's the MFA program. All the MFA kids. Big foam fingers. I feel bad. Big foam books. I feel bad I didn't see a Rutgers football game. You shouldn't. Yeah, well, you could still go.

You live in New York. They're using big foam fingers to read a big foam. They got big foam glasses. They got big foam highlighters. Highlighting.

Oh, we have fun. I should go back. Yeah, go back to what's the stadium called? Rutgers Stadium? Oh, I just meant to Rutgers.

Yeah, you should get another degree. Yeah, why not? It's called the SHI Stadium. Boring. Okay. Sounds like the SHI Stadiumi in the screenplay of course they bring quilty's murder to the front yes as we said right kubrick's take uh says the main problem with the book is uh and even with the film is the main narrative interest initially

boils down to will humbert get lolita? Right. And the second drop has a, second half has a drop in narrative interest after that happens. We wanted to avoid this in the film, so if you have Quilty at the beginning, the audience can constantly, I guess, be wondering, like,

how is it going to get to this, and what is Quilty up to? Right. I guess that's sort of like, if you've not read the book, and you're seeing this movie, like, halfway in, you're like, so how, you're seeing this movie like halfway and you're like, so how is this? You're probably just still like, how does this link up to him murdering Peter Sellers in cold blood mid bit?

He is so inscrutable. And these different personas are so bizarre. Yeah. Yes. So. Initially, it was at Warner Brothers. They said you could have a million dollars if you

don't make them if you leave this room with that blasted book if you like figure out censorship in advance basically I guess like if you like work this out with the MPAA Kubrick gets in a big

fight with them They want final cut They want control over everything He quits Instead they have to find a star To try and lure another studio in Kirk Douglas was the move for Paths of Glory But as you said not interested That would make no sense

Olivier The most obvious choice His agents say don't do it. Yeah. David Niven agrees to do it, but then is worried that it will lose the sponsorship for Four Star Playhouse, probably some TV show he was doing or whatever,

so he backs out. Brando was interested. Of course he was. But too complicated schedule-wise, and he's Marlon Brando, he's probably just fucking annoying and weird. Wrong type of guy, I think, in the way that Kirk Douglas, also wrong type of guy.

Yeah, I mean, with Brando, you're just sort of like, look, I would see him do most things. Lord knows what that would look like, but it doesn't immediately seem right. Oh, sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Olivier is the one where you're like, absolutely. That would make sense.

Olivier is very good at playing very unlikable characters. Yes. I mean, especially just coming off of Spartacus and Kubrick getting that kind of performance out of him. There's something about Mason's teeth in this, though. I mean, not just in this, but Mason's teeth are kind of the element for me where I'm like,

this is why you were the best star of this moment to play this. For how suave and sophisticated you are and like sort of bizarrely handsome you can be. Every time he opens his mouth, there's something like a little shark like to him. He's got that Michael Fassbender thing where when he smiles

you're like, oh, you're like a little dangerous. I agree with that. Yeah. He's, look, I don't understand James Mason's career when I'm looking at it. No. Because he was a big theater actor who makes the leap to movies, mostly playing villains at first and stuff, and then does Fox movies, but none of them are big hits.

I guess he was in like a prisoner of zenda yeah remake but like and like and then it's like he's in a star is born and you're just sort of like what in his career because like a star is born is such a plum role like carrie grant was the first choice or whatever yeah and i just don't really get it like i not that he wasn't a good actor i'm just i don't get why he gets to be up with Garland in one of the biggest blockbusters of all time. But that's the one. You read so often, though, in that era.

And then he does 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, and it's sort of like, okay, this guy's set. Who is he in 20,000 Leagues again? He's Nemo. Is he Nemo? Okay. I've seen that movie, but I just couldn't remember. Prior to my understanding of him.

He's got one little arm and one big arm. It's Bradley Cooper who was reading Lolita to whatever girlfriend in the park. What's her name? Yeah, Snooki Waterhouse.

Classic. It's a reading into Snooki Waterhouse. It'd be funny if it was Snooki. It's going to be my Halloween costume this year. Snooki Waterhouse.

So he comes in and... I was just going to be my Halloween costume this year, Snooki Waterhouse. So, he comes in and... I was just going to say sorry to that point. about Jamie, Jimmy, Jimmy M. I feel like when I've

dug into things like that of like, how does that star suddenly get moved to A position and get on this big project or this person who had been a character actor

get the lead or whatever it is? And so often, the answer is like, weird studio system politicking where it was like, someone else they had that they wanted was under contract with different studio. At the last minute they figured out they couldn't use them.

And then they had someone who they needed to put in a movie that year, you know? Yeah. I don't know. No, you're probably right. It's like literally Wikipedia, which is Wikipedia too,

but it's like none of like, it lists like five movies he did in the late forties, early is Wikipedia too, but it's like, none of, like it lists like five movies he did in the late 40s, early 50s, and it says like, none of them were successful. Right. And I'm just like, well then,

but whatever. Obviously, he's a compelling screen presence. Yes. That might literally be it. It's like, look, this guy's going to figure it out.

Yeah. Kubrick says, handsome, vulnerable, easy to hurt, a romantic. He basically wants like this guy to feel heartfelt, I guess, on top of the monstrousness. Easy to hurt's romantic he basically wants like this guy to feel heartfelt I guess on top of the

monstrous easy to hurt it's a good yeah identification yeah um lolita they see a million people so you know it's one of those whatever sue lion gets the part with the first audition I you know I don't know like it's kind of what you said about child acting at the time like kubrick says like she was very casual she was cool she wasn't giggly she was enigmatic and it's like everything you're saying is like how a grown-up would behave right and i guess that of course that makes sense that you want lolita on screen to read as sophisticated yeah but still but she's got I don't know when you read that book you have no sense

of the character of Lolita at all and in this movie you really do it feels like Judy Garland to me or when you watch

like Wizard of Oz right and you're like this character's supposed to be like 12 isn't Judy Garland like 27 in this movie

and then you look it up and you're like Judy Garland was 15 when you shot this but she's like so poised yeah and the acting style is so specific i don't know what friends are laughing you're saying famous movie after wizard was yeah right yeah this feels like a very judy garland performance to me and i i don't generally view that as a negative but for this material it creates such an odd vibe especially when they've already aged the character up a little i mean the difference between 12 and 14 is pretty huge the other big difference they make in the script obviously is that everyone calls her

lolita yeah they don't whereas in the book it is internally his pet name for her right that no one calls her like not verbalized right that creates such an odd reality. Well, they also completely remove his whole, like, when I was a child, I had a crush on this girl, and then she died, you know, his whole weird invented backstory, whether or not... Which the Adrian Lyne movie front loads. That's the opening of the fucking film. Right, that's the opening of the book.

But it does create an odd effect for me where it's like... And so much of it is just obviously lolita is just shorthand for so many other fucking things now sure but when you're in a movie where the character's name is dolores and everyone's calling her lolita it feels like everyone's acknowledging not that they want to fuck her but this weird status she has for certain people does that make sense yeah rather than it being like i have this name for her in my head that no one will ever hear. That's my secret language.

And then that invented name becomes this. Yeah, no, it externalizes the entire conflict. Yes. Yeah. Better way to say it. I agree that she feels so fake in the book. You have no real, she doesn't feel real. To a point where you're like, this is someone this guy could have made up. Yeah. Because he's insane.

It feels hallucinatory. Right. And she doesn't even talk much in the book. Like, you know, her dialogue is not much. She's a child. Like, what does he talk to her about? He's just, he's a psychologically broken man. Yeah.

Right. Right. The whole point is, it's like his uncontrollable fixation. Yeah. But in the movie, she's like a character and she's like, you know, bickering with him and she's, you know, quite charming in those early scenes in her way. I don't, you know, like, I don't know.

It changes the whole tone of everything to me. Yes. That she's just like, you know, one of the four leads. Yeah. I don't know. It's certainly pitched more matured effectively. It feels grounded. But that's, again, all of these things are sort of But it's like she's the only one doing a grounded performance. It feels grounded. But that's, again,

all of these things are sort of But it's like she's the only one doing a grounded performance in the movie, I would say. Which I think finally, like, pays off in the final scenes. The ending is amazing. She's great there.

Her final scene is amazing. The best Mason is in the whole movie. Yes, it is. Right. Like, that's when it works. Sue Lyon talks very fondly about, Kubrick says Lolita could have been an embarrassing film for everyone,

but he saw that it wasn't, but has also talked about how fucked up the production was, that James Harris, who was, like, 32, supposedly seduced her on set when she was, like, 15. No good, very bad. Don't do it.

No good, very bad, don't do it. This is, like, it's all one way. Harris just was so old and didn't talk about it. This was all like reported on very recently, like a couple years ago. Yes.

And then you have Sellers, who I guess Kubrick just thinks is funny. Yeah. Because it's not like strange love where you're like, okay, there's a pre-existing connection now. It's like,

it's not logical to cast Peter Sell sellers in this wasn't entirely logical insane thing fran is that strange love gets made because the takeaway from this film is having peter sellers play multiple characters kind of made that thing a hit that's's the thing that audiences liked. If you could develop a new movie around multiple Peter Sellers characters, you have a green light. I mean, I have to say, I've seen Strangelove too many times at this point to where it's not really an enjoyable experience

for me anymore. But if you were like, there's a different movie where Peter Sellers is playing a bunch of different characters and they're not the characters you saw in Strangelove, I'd be like, okay. That's the thing.

It's kind of odd that this is the one that creates that model. It isn't. Yeah. I mean, when I told people I was going to see this, everyone was just like, Sellers being crazy. Sellers is crazy. And nothing to do. It's sort of...

It's just weird that Sellers is doing it in Lolita. I remember reading the book, hearing that Peter Sellers played crazy. Sellers is crazy. And nothing to do. It's sort of. It's just weird that Sellers is doing it in Lolita. I remember reading the book during the Peter Sellers played quality. And I was like, oh, that's interesting casting. Absolutely. It's interesting casting to put Peter Sellers in a drama and have them play this kind of inscrutable. It makes total sense, though. You're like that. I can see it.

Right. And don't worry. He also kind of does like a German psychiatrist. But you're like, I can see it. Right. And they're like, don't worry, he also kind of does like a German psychiatrist bit. And you're like, he does a what? That's the thing you're not expecting is that Lolita turns into a Peter Sellers movie. Not that Peter Sellers is in a Lolita film. And it really does feel like, I mean, like for Kubrick to basically outright say, look, the problem with the book, and let's be honest with my movie, is that halfway in, it kind

of loses it. And you feel the movie be like, okay, okay hey peter you want to do some stuff like i don't know we got time to fill here before he shoots you you want to do some stuff right yeah but it also the energy it has that weird like uh the nope thing where you're like oh like the biggest events are happening off screen and you're both telling us and not the nope this is wait what the movie what's this yeah where you're like oh like jupe and nope is kind of the most important character sure sure and all these things are happening it's him just talking about i mean obviously see a little bit of it but right like right but you

like don't even realize it till the end like oh that's been going on for the last 40 minutes and all this shit we're like the scene at the end where she spells it out and she's like, here's what was going on in between every other scene that you just saw. Right. Where you just have these extended sellers conversations that are like the buffer for the things the movie is not going to show you or tell you. She's actually been seeing this guy. Of course, that is the experience in the book because you're locked to his perspective. Right. Yeah.

Is you're like, as the reader, you're're like she's slipping away from you this you know what are you talking about like and that's how you feel in the movie too oh she's going to piano she's not going to piano lessons like you know but it's but because it's in the book it's again you're just so like lost locked in with him and such and to me it's kind of an awful experience reading the book i really it's such a well done book it's like yeah but i was really like sick of this fucking guy like halfway i was like come on you um and in the movie you're you know you're leaving his perspective and reading the book the difference between bolte and humbert well i don't know if you know this name is humbert humbert uh Those guys with the two first names.

Right. It's the same one. Humbert feels like this, like, I am broken. I am caught in this, like, psychological prison of my trauma. I can only love nymphettes, and here is, like, the one I am most attached to, and I've just destroyed my entire life around, right? And Quilty just feels like, I mean, she even has the line where she's like,

what does she say? That he's like so much more spiritual or he's got a very Eastern philosophy on things. Yeah. Right. That Quilty just seems like a fucking libertine.

Right. Who's just like, I do whatever the fuck I want. Yeah. You know? And that like Humbert's hatred of Quilty is so linked in this thing where it's like, my illicit love is real.

He can live openly as a freak, Quilty. A freak in quotes here. Whereas, obviously, Humbert can never speak of it. I get that, yeah. I think Humbert thinks of himself as a Quilty up until he's sort of confronted with the idea of Quilty. He's like, I too am a free thinking intellectual

who can pursue whatever and I'm not trapped by the limitations of society. But then when he meets a guy who actually kind of lives that way, he's like, I hate this guy so much. Everything's just a fucking lark and a goof for this guy. And I'm like Frankenstein's monster. Lark and a goof. He's sort of a randomista, that's for sure.

Yeah. He is definitely. There's just so many... Quilty kind of the original shit poster. Sure. Yes, he's a big shit. No, but it's just so many scenes where Mason's like, just stop this foolishness,

you know, both to Lolita and Quilty. What are you talking about? Like all that, that kind of malfunctioning... That's what I was saying. The Mason playing like a universal monster. I mean, it's funny to watch him go insane with sellers. It is. Those Mason scenes feel like universal monster shit

where it's like the guy monologuing about his affliction and how he wishes he could get over this dreaded wolfman curse. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shelly Winters, just to give you a little on her, was campaigning for JFK So hard That she demanded the movie be shot around that She was like you can't start filming

Until election Until inauguration day And they were like we have to start filming So they started filming after election day But they wrote in her contract that if he won She could go to his inauguration, which she did. Political Lady Gaga at Javits Center, you know. She

did not get along with Stanley Kubrick at all. Not surprised to hear that. Not surprised to hear that. Right. Very strong personality. Had her take. He struggled to mold her take, is my guess. I mean, we also watched the making of thing for Portrait of a Lady,

her final film, where Jane Campion, who's a much more tender, empathetic filmmaker, was just like, every single take, she goes like, I can't do this, it's too painful. Like, Shelley Winters' whole thing, very connected to how her emotional sort of flood on screen at every moment

was just like, don't make me do this, please, this is too, I can't, I can't. Yes, according to... I love her so much. Yeah. At one point, apparently, Stanley Kubrick almost fired her and said, I think that lady's gonna have to go. That's the quote, the Stanley Kubrick quote. So that's how annoying, because I think firing her

from the movie would have been very complicated. I mean, the movie does that to her. The movie does that to her this time, arguably. I think Mason's a bigger star. But she's certainly a big name. She's an Oscar winner already, I think. Yes. Yes. And because Diary of Anne Frank, that's her first win.

So, yeah, I mean. Does she win for Poseidon? No. No, she's nominated. That's her final. No, she wins for Anne Frank and for Patch of Blue, the Sidney Poitier movie. She's so good in fucking Place place in the sun yes she is

she's awesome that's the thing about her is you're like she won two oscars and then trying to guess which two she won right there's a lot of applause you're like she could have won for five or six different films um they shot it in england as we noted every time with these you know i know that well i read the dossier

um but like every time it's like hubrick's like it's before he's just like, I live in England now, bitch. Right. Don't ask questions. In the 60s, he's like, that's just a good idea. I don't know.

There's a great deal on a studio over there. You know, but he keeps ending up there. Oh, I said he said bitch? Yeah, he said don't ask questions, bitch. Okay. No, they shoot it at Elstree. I didn't know they shot this in England. They did.

Okay. Of course you wouldn't know that. You grew up in Chicago. He did incredibly long takes, like 10-minute takes, which I feel like is a thing in the early 60s. Because that's when Hitchcock's fucking with that the most, too. Sure.

With the, like, how long can we go? I don't know. Yeah. And he played music on set, classic silent film technique. People still do it sometimes, right? True. To set the mood.

And which sounds weird, but that's okay. And so they would play like West Side Story music to make Shelley Winters cry. I don't think you need to do anything to make Shelley Winters cry. Apparently she was into it.

Irma LaDuce would apparently floor James Mason okay and for Sue Lyon they would play he says this is Terry Southern not Elvis

but someone like Elvis to get her going some kind of balladeer you know sort of the final sequence where Humbert

finds Lolita and tries to convince her that took the longest they shot that for like two weeks yeah that's where they're

like we have to nail this and I do think that is the most arrest They shot that for like two weeks. That's where they're like, we have to nail this. And I do think that is the most arresting part of the movie. Beyond maybe some of the cellar stuff where you're just like, what the fuck? I will say that is the only section of the movie that holistically works for me. Yes. Where I feel

like the movie has complete control over its tone and its intent and its interest. And then there are other scenes that I find fascinating, but they feel at odds with themselves. I mean, I think that's a beautiful scene, which the movie really does not have very many of.

It has a lot of compelling scenes, but not certainly not beautiful. The movie is mostly right. Compelling in a horrifying way. Right. The cellars, porch, hotel,

pretend to be the cop scene. I'm like, is captivating. But what the fuck is this? And the whole sequence is kind of already alarming. Right. The whole, like, cot bed, you know, the whole, like, conversation with the clerk. Where you're just like. It's weird how much of it.

Right. Like, yes. Well, I was going to say, what's his sidekick? Peter Seller's sidekick? Oh, the woman with her severe haircut. Right. Yeah, but, like, she keeps popping up in a way where I'm like, okay, so this is. Sidekick? Peter Sellers sidekick? Oh, the woman with her severe haircut? Right. But she keeps popping up in a way where I'm like,

okay, so this is... She's sort of like the Great Gazoo, only he can see her. Is she the Great Gazoo or is she Dwayne Maxwell? I was just going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah. 100% yeah. They're very similar figures, obviously. Totally. Trendy haircut.

Yeah. There's also the whole weird thing with him being disgusted by the swinger couple. Right. In the town. But again, it's,

right, it's, these perverts and freaks want to. It's the, you know, I'm not like them, like thing. Right.

I do love when he's in the bath avoiding them. That's the scene I want to talk about that is another scene where you're like, this is captivating. It is so strange. I don't know what the fuck is going on.

Yeah. Go on. Go on. Talk about it. He's found out that she's died. Yeah. Then he goes back to his bath. He's getting drunk.

Yep. He's sort of relieved because he was terrified. He was going to get caught. He was going to get rumbled. I think it's a positive bath for him. Absolutely. He maybe shouldn't have written all his crimes down in a diary for his wife to find.

And he's drunk with joy but also sort of like psychologically unraveling because he's a madman. And then all these people are coming over. Not only that but it's also like

wait could I get away with it? Like the weird kind of like thrill of that. Right. Yeah. Horrifying. Everyone's coming over to console him

give him their like you know morning fruitcakes or whatever. Love a morning fruitcake. And it's just like one by one they all walk into this room like they're the fucking like fireman and cop from something about mary checking out the dick in the zipper catching him in the bath and going like oh i'm sorry should i should i not be here and he's like no come on in and everything he's doing is insane and they're like i don't know i guess grief is weird. Yeah. I mean, I guess it is. Yeah.

It's kind of similar to like the later stuff where in the hotel or whatever, where they're like, yeah, I guess he's her dad and this is what's going on. And he's sort of doing like, oh, my wife's going to show up in a minute. Everyone's like, who am I to judge? I'm like, feel free to judge. Yeah. You know, 911, famous number. Call the police. One of the top phone numbers of all time.

Yeah. Or just ask some questions. Ask even one. But no one wants to. No one wants to. But that's part of, I think, the weird, like, the lobster-esque reality of this movie for me. Where it's like, well, obviously,

they can't talk directly about what's really going on. But also the lack of interrogation by other people around them feels like, he can only ask questions about how many beds we need in a room. The movie has that bizarro world

that the book doesn't have because you're so locked into his POV in the book. You're like, well, the world must be normal and he's insane. Right. But in the movie, you have that bizarro thing of like, well, the world must be normal and he's insane. Right, yes. But in the movie, you have that bizarro thing of like,

well, if you've got little fuckers like sellers walking around, maybe James Mason actually seems normal. Yes. That when he like can't remember if he's with his wife or his girlfriend, you're just like, that's the weird guy. Here's the other thing the book get away with that doesn't have to consider that the movie does

because it's a visual medium. You have to watch people perceive him. Yeah. And perceive him with her and their behavior. In the book, he's so solipsistic. He's so caught up in his world. He's just telling you his internal life that you don't have to think about like every time they go to check in at a hotel.

Right. They have to walk in together and have this whole conversation. He has to do his little cot song and dance And then she's like sucking on your Johnny Lolly with the sunglasses It is funny how much the iconography of the poster Yeah, no, I know

This is going to be tied to me for the rest of my life You're the one who wrote Lolly Story You went out and got the lolly I didn't ask for this You're the one who's going to win the Pulitzer for lolly story. I didn't ask for anyone to talk about my lolly. Lolly story. bit.ly.com slash lolly.

She doesn't even eat the lollipop. That's what I was going to say. It's funny how much the iconography of the movie is. Well, it's also like I thought the movie was in color. Yeah. Because of the poster. I remember being surprised when I was a teenager. The poster is better than the movie.

Just between the tagline, the imagery. The poster is better than the movie. The poster is perfectline, the imagery. The poster is better than the movie. The poster is perfect. The poster eats this movie's lunch. I think so. I don't know. It's also short. The movie's got sellers.

The poster is so short. Sellers' name is on the poster. Yeah, that's true. It's so sad. If you don't see it, she's right. It would be funny if all of the faces are just on the corners or whatever. Yeah, or like a parenthetical being like, and he's doing something weird. That might work I like that in an old poster where like

The guy who's doing something weird has sort of torn open A part of the poster and is popping his head out Like look out for me though I'm the surprise Here's some ideas that Warner Brothers for example Had on how to make this movie palatable For the Hays Code. Lowly three, duh.

One, age her up. Make her 15, 16, right? A little more like... 27, 45. Stanley, keep going. Two, a big thing for them, apparently, and apparently this was something that got suggested to Nabokov a lot, have them actually get married. I guess just sort of with the thought

of like well if they're married then it's sort of it's legal like right everyone's put their head in their hands at that Kubrick said it's like what this is like fucking five years after the Jerry Lee Lewis shit where he's like what's the problem I married her and everyone's like you're not allowed in

that's not right he was allowed what's the big deal but it's like, you're not allowed in England. That's not right. He was allowed. What's the big deal? But it's like, I mean, it makes me think of like Hail Caesar or whatever. You just imagine like these old studio guys being like, all right, well, I'm reading the book and they're like, so yeah, what do you think?

I'm married. They're just sort of like in suits, pitching ideas. That'd be fine, right? What a 100-100 store. A bunch of cute dogs around? I read comic books about Dick Tracy beating people up. I don't know what this is,

but you're asking me to solve a problem here. I don't know. What if Humbert Humbert's a cop and Lolita is held captive and he saves her and they never fall in love? Like, that's just how I imagine some of these studio conversations going. And then Kubrick apparently was like,

the Hays Code will not that that's not going to solve your problem like it's still not going to get past the Hays Code just because you've got them pretend married in your pretend movie um but basically I guess the whole time they would just

shoot alternate stuff and show it to the MPA to kind of keep them off their backs they would shoot like milder stuff. Okay. Like just a scene of God approving. Very good. This is just and right. He's a complicated character

and the movie is not outright condemning or condoning. God just comes in to say stuff like that. Depiction does not equal endorsement. Right. The MPAA, in their haze coat form at this point, their biggest suggestion with the actual movies is the seduction scene. The initial seduction scene between Humbert and Lolita should fade out a lot earlier.

Uh-huh. Again, it's kind of like, but then the movie's going to keep going. I know. But this is the thing with movie censorship, where it always seems so funny. and then you hear directors later on about these conversations they have with the rating board where they're like can you just thrust twice and then we cut like and you're like why is that better like you know versus i mean for our buddy

chris white talks about that all the time but like like the amount of what he called frame fucking they had to do over the first American Pie where it was like literally like how many thrusts go into the pie from what angle at what velocity

is the difference between R and NC-17? Once he's fucked the pie, he's fucked the pie. The film got an X rating in England. Sure. It got a condemned from the Legion of Decency. Uh-oh.

You don't want that. Nope. They should bring that back. I think they did for DC Legion of Super Pet. They're like, come on, this is just craven. But it did get the code seal of approval, which meant that MGM picked it up. Other studios had run away, obviously.

And, of course, the battle to get the film approved was incorporated into the iconic tagline of the film on the poster, which Griffin Newman says is better than the movie. I stand by it. No, I don't mind it. I'm trying to think of the most recent thing where the tagline or any of the marketing

has relied on the production and all I can think of is that bad North Korea movie. The interview? Yeah. Do they have a tagline like that? I don't think so. Is it on Netflix now

as the movie Kim Jong-un didn't want you to see or some shit? Oh, maybe, yeah. I can't think of it. I wish they just sort of did more stuff with that. You know?

Remember how weird that was? Yeah, weird time. Not a good movie. No, which makes it all the weirder. I know. If only it was good. I had to write about

Franco playing Castro. And then I was like, which is so, which also, that press release is so funny and so crazy. All right. Rogan directed it with Goldberg.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Weird. Everything about that movie is weird. I don't approve of James Franco being cast as a caster. No good for a bad don't do.

Even though he is the exact same bone structure when they ran it through a computer program or something. Yeah. Oh, you've convinced me. Oh, when you say that. You do know that's their fucking difference. I know, I know, whatever. It's a physiognomy.

Physiognomy, that word came back. Let's get it back out. They're like, look, if you have a suggestion of a better skull shape, we'll hear it. I don't know. We couldn't find one. Just get Fidel back.

Bring him back. Bring Fidel back. Huh? CGI Fidel? Bring Fidel back. Yeah, hologram Fidel. It's not even about him, really. You might as well have a cgi one

sure yeah do a peter cushing and rogue one thing yes um i think this is a great quote from kubrick about what he thinks doesn't work about the movie fun like fundamentally years later he's reflecting sure the important thing in the novel is to think that but in on the outset that humbert is enslaved by his perversion and only at the end when lolita is married and pregnant do you realize that he does love her so he's saying like the end hits so hard in the book because you've never been in that mindset and then by the end you're like huh he does actually there is something more than just this obsession he's talking about whereas in the he says in my film the fact that his sexual obsession could not be portrayed at all yeah just implies that he's in love with her from the start so like he's like it just kind of plays as a slightly more

traditional weird love like story you're not you don't really get into the fact that this guy is obsessed with pre-teen girls right like at all like no i think i dressed in the movie i think that's it exactly like if he imagine look imagine if the movie begins I think that's it exactly. Like if he, imagine, look, imagine if the movie begins, red velvet curtain. Yeah. Maybe a little dry ice. Okay. Okay.

James Mason comes out wearing a smoking jacket. Yeah. Okay. Got a big cigar and a cup of tea and he's like, oh, I'm Humbert Humbert.

I fucking love nine-year-olds. You know, and then you're like, oh, whoa, this guy is awful. I hate this guy. You know,

then it's different. It also doesn't work. You guys think that's a good idea? And it's unbearably sad and difficult to watch. You guys think that's a good idea? But the Adrian Lyne movie does that basically at the opening and I then then it's different it also doesn't work you guys think that's a good idea unbearably sad and difficult to watch you guys think that's a good idea line movie does that basically the opening and i do think it's the film's advantage right you don't think it's a good idea thumbs down david you don't like my smoking i know i agree i agree he should come out fucking like rod serling style hello i'm a awful pervert imagine if you will um but i do think it's

interesting that he's like, because I was so handcuffed and be able to dramatize the erotic portion of this guy's psychology. Yeah. It just plays like a weird love story at the end. Like, I don't know. Either you start with sort of the weird thing that I don't really remember the thing in his past.

There's a girl from his childhood. He loses his virginity to a girl when he's like 14 years old. And she dies. And then she dies of consumption. Immediately, pretty much. Like, I mean, I think you either start with that or you start with him shooting Quilty for dramatic tension, but you don't get to have two beginnings to that movie. And I think they picked the one that makes like the vehicle of the movie work better at the expense of like. Sure. The heart of it.

The whole thing, which is like psychologically sort of sourced and backed up, that very often pedophilia is some sort of like effect of people being frozen developmentally at that age. Right? And so the book and the Adrian Lyme version

go out of their way to say like, this is why. Yeah. And this movie, it's, yes, and it's part of also the weird like,

his worldview of her is externalized. Everyone else is calling her Lolita. No one else seems to pick up on what's going on. Quilty is like the fucking Joker, like, maneuvering the entire universe around having this secret affair. Yeah. That it doesn't feel like, it feels like a movie about a man who is at odds with himself and that's the great tragedy of it rather than a movie about a man who is like you know like fundamentally fucking cursed yeah yeah as as far as you know when he comes into

this movie this is a guy whose life has been normal up to the point that he walked into the door of this house right and this is a guy who's like an insane lunatic. This girl kind of breaks him. And then the movie tries to kind of at the end go like, but the love was real. So. Yeah. Look, he did care. Look at him giving the money.

No, it feels karmic at the end, though. Yeah. It feels like every step of the way, he's making the wrong decision, and then the consequence is that his things, the situation is getting worse and worse and worse. Well, yes. Yes, he is fundamentally entirely dysfunctional and awful. Yeah, you know what's a really bad decision?

Right. To tell her that her mom's still alive? Yeah. Yeah. Where you're just like, well, whenever the shoe's dropping on this. The lows, the desperation. Yeah. This character're just like, well, whenever the shoe's dropping on this. The lows, the desperation. Yeah.

This character is sickening. Kubrick later finally just comes out and says it and says, if I'd realized how severe the limitations would be, I probably just wouldn't have made it. Yeah. Which is fairly damning of him. Yeah, what does that mean? When you unpack that quote.

Well, he just like, he's like, there was something about this novel that I thought was powerful and I just could not fundamentally dramatize it because of like the fact that I could not portray this guy as an outright like sort of broken monstrous person so instead he's just a

weirdo I mean I'm now I think it's like he's assuming he could have squared the circle in a time without content restrictions versus just being like what we keep on talking about like you just can't fucking make this book into a movie well also the fundamental thing is as you said there's the line movie that does everything he couldn't do right and that movie is boring like yeah more than anything and not very successful. No.

Case closed. And, like, Adrian Lyne made Flashdance, which is a movie that you're like, every second of Flashdance, you're like, makes no sense, makes no sense.

But you're watching it, you're just like, I'm having fun. He's kind of the king of that. Lyne is usually good at, like, threading stupid needs. Obviously, Lolita's different from Flashdance.

But on paper, Adrian Lyne, in the 1990s, with that cast making Lolita more faithful to the book, you're like, if anyone's ever going to

pull it off, it's him right now. Sure. But I remember when it came out, people were like, don't do it. Yeah, like, why are you doing this?

I mean, if Cooper had waited, I wonder what would have happened. Even if he waited to like the 70s or something. Yeah. If he waited five years. Because I do feel like based on the quotes you shared, all of which are new to me,

that he fundamentally understands the source material that he's working with and what he wants to be saying and is limited just by the nature of the times. Yeah, I just still wonder how much you can ever externalize this book. Yeah, totally. Like in Flashdance, she's a welder.

Right. Yeah. She dances at a local Barnes Pittsburgh that somehow allows massively like overcomplicated cabaret acts to perform. Buckets of water. Buckets of water. A lady who's like,

I'm a subway train. It's not just like people dancing. It's like really complicated visual bits. Yeah. She wants to be a ballerina She meets another welder Who's rich Who takes a shine to her

Right? Yes And because he gets her the right audition She gets to do a ballerina audition Like he gets her in with the right people This is how my aunt and uncle met I can't believe this And then she gets to be a ballerina And you watch this movie and you the right people this is how my uncle met right believe and then she gets to be a ballerina and you watch this movie and you're like oh this is a bit silly

and people come in and are like no no the most successful film of the year basically you don't understand i didn't know that was the premise of flash dance the premise of flash dance and she's just a simple welder who only just wishes to be a ballerina and her way into doing that is doing kind of like sexy but not stripping dancing yeah I think I thought it was like Footloose

no she's got a like skeezy Flashdance Footloose is equally insane though Footloose is like the best dancer in the world arrives at the one town where dancing isn't allowed like Footloose also makes no sense

yes he's like how I express myself is dancing and they're like uh uh no yeah wait

what's the dance movie center stage that's not 98 though that's like 2000 center stage is like 2000 I was like it took them a while to figure out

you could just make a movie about dance right sure you'd be like I want to be a dancer and they're like seems hard that's the movie

rather than like I want to be a dancer but convoluted and they remained successful when they started doing that like save the last dance and step up, whatever. Once they just cut out the tension and went, like, it's about

someone who wants to dance. Yeah. Then it works. Bosley Crowther. I just want to read you him bodying Lolita. Sure. Film critic for the New York Times. Yeah. How did they ever make a movie of Lolita? According to a poster.

The answer to that question posed in the advertisements of the picture which arrived at the lowe's state and the murray hill last night love that in old theater old movie reviews where they tell you like the two manhattan theaters you can see it at is as simple as this they didn't oh boy they made a movie from a script in which the characters have the same name as the characters in the book and the plot bears a resemblance to the original and some of the incidents are vaguely similar but the lolita of nabokov wrote as a novel and the leader he wrote to be a film are two conspicuously different things oh he's laughing and writing this yeah he's he's like he's having a lot typewriter yeah kale write about this uh i don't

she would have been working yeah i i don't it's not in here i feel like she would have hated this but he loves it she loves it oh she loves pro okay i never know i i like her because i never know what she's gonna say about something um yeah no she calls it one of uh oh no i'm sorry no no i'm sorry oh she hates it this website calls this review one of Kale's best reviews. I was confused by the capsule. No, I think that she had a similar. Are you on a top 20 deadliest Pauline Kale body blows listicle? Crack.com. 18 times.

Pauline Kale absolutely shredded a masterpiece. No, she seems more positive on it. And in fact, she makes fun of Bosley Crowther in this very review. Says he's always

counted on to miss the point. That's back when movie critics were just like, Bosley Crowther, who's as ugly as he is fat! You know,

like, you're just like, whoa! There were also like six of them. They were like the Greek gods. Which one are you?

Right, they're all wearing like capes and shit. What's your gimmick? But she's more positive on it. Yeah, yeah. I think you read so much of the response to this movie at the time, and there was a lot of, like, points for audacity to everyone involved,

where it's just like, what courage to make this? Me? I mean, I don't like this film. I do think it's fascinating., what courage to make this. Me? I mean, I don't like this film. I do think it's fascinating. It is very compelling. Yeah, I think it's fascinating, but I watched it one time to have seen every Stanley Kubrick film. That is why I eventually watched it. And I remember at the time liking it or being like, well, there's nothing like it.

It's interesting. On rewatch, I i just i just really it really loses me for the last the second hour yeah plus yeah really post shelly winters yeah the seller's stuff does not charm me as much as it charms you guys i grew up i mean i don't know if i'm charmed yeah trump isn't the right word or whatever yeah i don't like it you guys have stopped me i was said i grew up twice And you guys talked over me Which is crazy Because I was about to

Lob a meatball for you guys You have something you want to say About your life? I grew up in England What? And I think that really Has turned me against

All the great British Comic figures Because Okay Just because like You're too revered Yeah you spend so much time And like Watching TV back then,

especially back when they're only fucking four channels. Yeah. And it'd be like, the BBC is like a hundred greatest comedians. And they basically be like number a hundred Peter Sellers, number 99 Peter Sellers. Again, we're going to just do him for 50.

You know, they just, they just Peter Sellers, more coming wise, Peter Sellers, Peter, Peter Cook, Peter Sellers.

You're just like, I get it. I get it. I get it. You know, it is good. Sure. And I think Strange Love is a masterpiece and he's so funny in it.

And I think he's funny in other stuff. But like, I don't know. He creeps me out in this movie. He's a creep. He's a creep. And this is the thing I'm saying. I do think this is the movie that gets closest to him playing himself.

Not in his, like, sexual predilections, but in his, like, odd... His, I can't be a real person. Yeah. And I think that's what he was like when he said that. We have a dwindling number of comedians,

let alone comedic actors, who do a thing that I think is so funny, and also I would never want to be anywhere near them. Because of cancel culture. They're too afraid. Of course.

Because of cancel culture. Not that I want to fucking dip into this, but it's like, this is why every single week the like discourse echo chamber is losing their mind

fighting over the rehearsal because Nathan Fielder has built himself to be inscrutable. You know and I don't say this as a brag I still don't know

what the rehearsal is about. I don't know anything about it. All I know is that Nathan Fielder is in it and people are

very animated about it. In both directions. I really don't and people are very animated about it. In both directions. I really don't know. I'm not watching it. I do think it is. Even someone like Sacha Baron Cohen. I'm not not watching it

because I hate him or love him or whatever. I just haven't gotten around to it and I just sort of see people like yelling about very abstract things. I feel like Sacha Baron Cohen and you know

not to his credit or detriment didn't really put any energy into trying to hold on to any mystery about himself. Like, he talks about that he doesn't like doing interviews as himself, but when he does them, you're like,

you seem normal. You're not someone whose, like, skin is like... Yeah, he's maybe the closest modern example we have. Because Fielder's not doing... I mean, I actually can't speak on Fielder. I haven't seen enough to speak on him. You haven't played The Field? No.

Let's play The Box, obviously. Okay. Sorry, what's up? One last thing I wanted to say about the movie. There's a song that's playing when we first meet Lolita. Oh, yeah. What is it? It's an original composition, I think.

It's an original composition. Right, what is it? Monster Mash or what is it? Well, it's got that sound to it. No, truly, it's like a very old-fashioned sounding song.

It fucking kind of rips. Did you look up what it is? I did last night and now I'm like, unless I'm playing it out loud. See if you can find the title. Oh, we looked this up,

I feel. Yeah, Lolita Ya Ya. Yeah, the Ya Ya song by Nelsonelson riddle it charted oh right right it was written for this this is a fucking okay this is kind of like this is kind of a solid song where i was like this would be in a fucking wes anderson movie yes if it wasn't like you know wasn't in this this is the other thing like so much the music in this movie is so jaunty

and fun and it makes me uncomfortable it makes me really much of the music in this movie is so jaunty and fun, and it makes me uncomfortable. It makes me really uncomfortable, but it's like this is— But on its own, this song is great. Oh, man. It's very effective. I'd love to see a little stop-motion dog dancing to this song. Oh, yeah. God, this movie is so fucking weird. Like, I'm watching—

The corduroy jacket. So I Googled this song, right, and a YouTube video plays. It's on his elbows. And it's basically like a montage of the film just playing, right? Yeah. And, like like i'm being reminded of some scenes like the movie the drive-in theater which is like a clever kubrick bit of like watching how the hands move around oh sure you know like where they both put their

hands on him and he grabs both their hands and let's go shelly winters then he puts his hand on lolita and she puts her hand on him but then shelly winch like puts it and he's and everyone's like uh the nail polish uh being the only uh outward physicalization of sex in this movie and then you have like shots like this where it's like he's sitting in his fucking bathrobe with a fucking cravat and she's like next to him with a piece of toast and you're like like leaning in like sort of who me and he's like that toast looks so good in that scene how's that buttered toast you're eating it looks so good you know what's fucking good

buttered toast get out of here nothing better there is sort of this very funny micro trend on food tiktok right now where people are quote unquote discovering just eating bread with butter on it and maybe a little bit of salt and it's like what the fuck's going on

when I was if you'll allow me to reminisce if you'll allow me to reminisce when I was a kid in England in London

London England what I took piano lessons every week with a lovely like hell you did Melissa House Andre

oh I thought she'd have like a Dame Whistleler. Mrs. Bagthorpe! I mean, she was like a classic sort of slightly dotty British piano teacher lady. Shadow Brimblebrad. Right. But like, she was a type of

English person where it's like, her house is kind of full of knickknacks and she's got like a long flowy dress. This is why I asked. I'm picturing the type. But so my mom would pick me up at school. Humblebrag. At Hanover School, which is where I went. Hanover Primary School, my primary school,

which was a crazy old Victorian building built for asthmatic children. Oh boy. It had a rooftop playground. It was right by the Regent's Canal and the idea I think

was like, oh, the water. That'll cure their asthma. Yeah. And she would take me to a greasy spoon called the Riedel Rooms and I would eat two pieces of buttered toast. Yeah. And she would take me to a greasy spoon called the Riedel rooms and I would eat

two pieces of buttered toast. Yeah. Before I went to the piano lesson. I think that's why I love buttered toast. What do they call it there? It's so ridiculous.

Oh, blimey, governor. I don't fucking know. Two sheets to the wind. Buttered toast with butter. I don't know what they call it. Sometimes you get some like crazy like big boy lumberjack. It's true. Two sheets to the wind. A toast with butter. I don't know what they call it.

Sometimes you get some like crazy like big boy lumberjack. It's true. Like bubble and squeak. Like do you know what bubble and squeak is? That's like to me the funniest, you know, British greasy spoon order. It's a potato thing, right? It's basically like potatoes and cabbages and you fry it and, you know, it apparently goes bubbles and squeaks. When you get some like big, crazy lumberjack breakfast,

I feel like oftentimes the two pieces of buttered toast on the side are the most exciting part. Yeah, they're so good. What about this other shit I ordered? Yeah. You don't want fucking sausage links? Give me more toast. Give me a big tower of toast.

For years, I was like, yeah, give me the English muffin. Give me the challah. And now I'm just like, give me the most plain bread with toast. And I'll make my choice with how I want to use it. I'll like default to doing bagel with cream cheese most days. But then it's like sometimes I treat myself by being like, keep it real simple. Fucking just toasted butter with bagel. That was a thing I hadn't even heard of until I moved out here.

Goddamn hard. Unbelievable to me. Yeah. That you could put butter on a bagel. Never was a thing I hadn't even heard of until I moved out here. Goddamn hard. Unbelievable to me. Yeah. That you could put butter on a bagel? Never even thought of it. Thought that was a vehicle for cream cheese only.

No, a toasted butter bagel. Didn't know. One of life's finer pleasures. The thing too is that order. I love a butter bagel. What people don't know is if you get it at a bagel place or whatever,

basically, they put on such a sick amount of butter. Yes. It's great. It's like you couldn't do it bagel place or whatever, basically they put on such a sick amount of butter. It's like you couldn't do it to yourself. That's the thing. Someone else has to put that amount of butter.

I literally had a buttered bagel for breakfast this morning. From the bagel pot. Someone made me a buttered bagel. It's like how an Eggo waffle when you pour syrup on an Eggo waffle and it gets wet. Like that's what they do to your bagel. Your bagel is butter all the way down.

And they so tightly wrap it in the paper and then the tinfoil over it. So when you take it out, the entire thing is just cased in butter. When I was really broke. Like it's just the butter has just swished around in the wrapping. Yes, I love it. But when I was really broke in New York, like my breakfast would be a buttered bagel, untoasted from one of those carts. Oh, sure. You know how they just have them wrapped in saran wrap?

And like with just yellow ass butter, like whatever, margarine, whatever it is, for like 50 cents. Yeah. Love that. That's the other thing though, butter bagel's still pretty cheap from even a real bagel place.

Even from a fancy bagel place. They'll only charge you a couple bucks for a butter bagel. I would do a salt bagel. With Even from a fancy bagel place. They'll only charge you a couple bucks for a bagel. I would do a salt bagel. With the butter? It's too much. I do everything just so you're balancing it. No, I think that's good.

I'll try a lot of these days. But not all extra salt. I love a salt bagel. Like toasted salt bagel. So good. Man, bagels roll so fucking hard. What if I do a spin-off podcast about bagels?

I mean, I'm all for it, but how does the podcast workoff podcast about bagels? I mean, I'm all for it, but how does the podcast work? Talk about bagels? Pick a topic. Sounds good, actually. Pick a, you know. We go to a bagel shop together. I guess I gotta get a shop to sponsor it.

Or is it just like you have a guest on every week and you're like, so, what do you think of bagels? What's your order? And you just sort of see how long you can sustain that conversation. I don't think I'd ever run dry. It's my favorite thing to talk about. I do love talking bags. Yeah. What do you think of bagels? And you just sort of see how long you can sustain that conversation. I don't think I'd ever run dry. It's my favorite thing to talk about. I do love talking bags. Yeah.

What do you think of those rainbow bagels? I hate them. Right? Aren't they gross? It must make people's doodoo look horrible. Ben, I don't want to burn this here because I'll get an entire like fucking arc out of this on my bagel podcast. Wow.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I don't like them either. I'm very purist. I'm like, there's like six kinds of bagels to me. Honestly, I might have to cut this all out and just save this as an excerpt for the future episode of your bagel show.

Yeah, because you'll be a guest early on. So don't say any more bagel opinions here. And Fran will be as well because you're one of our best. Oh, thank you. One of our finest. Thank you. We shared the Lolly article

in the blank check text thread. Oh. And Marie just said, God, Fran is just the coolest. That's so nice to hear about me poisoning myself for comedy. We didn't even discuss my wedding.

I figured this would be the wedding episode. We can talk about, I thought we were going to talk about the wedding too. I can hear about your wedding. I totally forgot. Fine.

Okay, your wedding was great. This is the first episode recorded after my wedding, which everyone in this room attended. Your wedding was great. Including Ben's girlfriend, who's not in the room,

but she's sort of in the next room. And I brought my cat. No, you didn't bring your cat that would be nice though can we be honest here stolen fucking valor you want some credit for your wedding you got married two years ago no vows were exchanged in front of us it was just a party that is true it was a great party i'll be clear with you it was billed as as a wedding party. I know. That's why I'm now. A wedding celebration. You think David stole Valor?

I was just using shorthand. From other people who got married? I think so. I did get married. I got married this week. No one's talking about it. You didn't tell anyone. Okay, well.

It's not going well. I'll just say that. Trouble in paradise. Yes, go ahead. I'll just say that You and your Your wife looked great You both Really

Looked great She looked great I looked fine Come on You both look great It was a beautiful night I think she looked great At least two Dua Lipa songs played

Yeah Absolutely DJ Mariko Mariko Morimura Shout out I'll shout her out on my podcast I don't know if you know this The bit I was doing

Is I kept telling everybody That I actually came up with the playlist. Yeah. Oh, did you? I didn't hear you. Yeah, it was a really funny bit. Yeah. No one believed me.

No, because Mariko was crushing it, and everyone knew it. Ben and I were busting a gut at the table when you got up to make your speech. You were kind of at the podcast table. I'd say the cool kids table. Of course, yeah. No, I was at the cool table.

You were at the cool table. I thought you were at the hot table. No, no. Fran was at the hottie table. Yeah. All cool table. I thought you were at the hot table. No, no. Fran was at the hottie table. Yeah. All right. Whatever. Thank you.

Although Ange dubbed it the bisexual girls with glasses table. Sure. Yeah. Six of one, half dozen of the other. But no, I'm sorry. Yeah. You were at the podcast table. Gets up.

Thank you all for coming in so much. She said her name. We're going to have to bleep it out, but whatever. I'm sorry. David's wife, Forky. Forky gets up and goes. Says. What? No. Forky. Forky gets up and goes, What? No.

Trash. And she threw herself in the garbage. What is love? David had to fish her out. No, but she was like, Thank you for coming. It means so much to have everyone here. It's been so long overdue.

I made a joke about you growing up in England. Damn. Killed Crazy She knew that was a crush Honestly didn't expect that She knew it was a crush And like said it

And then pretty much directly Looked over to our table And was like Well she needed you guys To get it going Yeah exactly Get it going It was like a very like gracious

Sort of like host table setting And said like When we got married You know two years ago We've been waiting to have this event And then you interjected with like I actually did the math. It is,

it is. I didn't interject. The microphone was passed to me and I did do the math. The first thing you said when the microphone was passed to you was you did the math

that it was actually two days short of being exactly two years. It was. It was a year and 363 days. 700. It was, okay.

Yeah, right. I mean, I think I said the amount of days. You said the amount of days. I mean, it was the equivalent of you having the laptop in front of you right now. Yeah mean, I think I said the amount of days. You said the amount of days. I mean, it was the equivalent of you having the laptop in front of you right now. Yeah.

You know? You said the amount of days. Ben and I looked at each other, started bossing up. Yeah, 728 days. Right. You don't love speaking publicly in front of people. I think it's fair to say your wife is also very shy about those things. Well, she is genuinely shy and wrote something out and said it.

You're less shy than she is, but you don't love being on, like, mic in front of a crowd. I don't love it, but I also was not, we were so stressed and busy preparing a zillion things, and I was like, I don't know, I'll just fucking say something, and who cares? So David Rees and I were sitting together, and we were talking about how good both of us are at wedding speeches

and how rude it was that neither of us were asked. And I kept on joking I had three speeches planned. I was going to do three different speeches at different points in the ceremony. And I kept on joking I had three speeches planned. I was going to do three different speeches at different points in the ceremony. And then there was no ceremony. But so we were like rating everyone's speech

as it happened. Right. Being like, good move. Like Molly comes up and you're like, she's locked and loaded for bear. She's going to kill it. Whatever.

And you, once passes you the mic, the first thing you do is the correction on the number of days. Yeah. And then you go like, I don't know.

There's food. Does everyone get food like, I don't know, there's food, does everyone get food? Yeah, I kind of laid out. I'm like, we're going to eat and then there'll be some toast and then we'll have dessert and then we'll dance, I guess.

You're doing like floppy Muppet arms and you're like, dance or whatever. And we just turned to each other and we're like, God, I didn't think he'd go this emotional.

And then the rest of the night we were just dining out on the bits about how like, I don't usually cry at weddings, but David opened up to a degree. Yeah, it's not my fault. You were just like, I can't get this over with fast enough. I don't know. What are the things that happen in this wedding? Sit in the chairs at your tables and then talk to the other people who are at your tables.

And then you can go over to other tables and talk to other people. And then later, you're like, oh, and also we have to make a toast. I'm being told. Yeah, I'm being told, unfortunately. It was the most David shit in the world. Yeah, no, that was actually, okay, so that was not my fault. What?

When we arrived at the, and again, planning a wedding with a toddler is- Not a wedding. Why were you letting the toddler make decisions? What do you think? She'd be like, ah! She should have done everything. All right, fine. She would you let the toddler make decisions? What do you think? She would have bought the place off. Really? The purple.

Okay. Um, we arrive at the wedding, uh, venue and our caterers like, Oh, and by the way, we want to give everyone like a champagne glass filled with champagne,

like, you know, gratis, like, you know, on us for a champagne toast. And we were like, Oh sure.

That sounds good. And then I just totally spaced on on it and then we sit down and my wife was like wait like we see the glass and we're like we're supposed to leave the toast what else are we gonna do this everyone's got it in front of them and i'm like mariko give me the fucking microphone i was like ah anyway toast to love you're like oh no we're supposed to make a toast so that was not entirely my fault. It wasn't your fault, but even so, the energy of everything you said

was just like, ah, it's when people parody you summing up the plot of the movie too quickly where you're like, I don't know what happens to this wedding.

We're all going to get too drunk and dance. I don't know. What do you want from me? Like every time you got on the mic was, I don't know. What do you want from me? I think that's fair.

I think that's fair i think that's i think it's good having it was funny attended plenty of weddings where the opposite vibe is true where it's like everyone is on our minds you never want to we didn't want any of the sort of like everyone the glasses are clinking and the so because someone just keeps talking and i had three speeches ready to go i've been working them out at the cellar I will also say and I'm sure people who are listening

who've done a wedding even a bit like it is that thing where you're just completely disassociated and like I ate the food

in that way of like well I know I need to eat some food because yeah food is fuel but I couldn't even taste it I was just like I don't know

you know you're just so out of it yeah and then eventually and then I sort of settled down but like the early part taste it i was just like i don't know you know you're just so out of it yeah and then eventually and then i sort of settled down but like the early part of it i was just like it's so weird to be in one room i said this one of you maybe and every minute someone one of your best friends comes in looking hot like that's truly what it was like i mean empty it's basically i'm in an empty big room sure and and ben Ben was the first to arrive, by the way. Really? Shout out Ben, 15 minutes early.

Yep. Wow. It wasn't me, though. That was all my girlfriend. Sure. She's a watch influencer. But just that weird sensation of like, oh, well, and then there's my friend from,

you know, I know them from college. Sure. And they're all looking great. And you're like, of course I know that's what's going to happen. But it's a weird experience to watch it all happen. Especially after two years of not getting to see

a lot of people. Right, you're like, it's your own curated big fish ending. Yeah. But you're not dying. Yeah. And especially when

this many people have not been able to be in the same room and people have been not traveling to other places. And it wasn't even that big of a way to not meet a hundred people. Is it also a thing where you know everyone's

looking at you all the time? A little bit. I mean, Alex Ross Perry kept saying that I was being like presidential. He said I was very presidential in that I had a tie and I kept walking over to tables and being like, how's everyone doing? I don't know. He was roasting me for that. You felt more like the

owner of an Italian restaurant. Well, that's what I like. That's what I want. One time when I was a political reporter, and we gotta do the box office game, Jesus Christ. I once covered an election night party in Harlem for a local election and it was this great old bar in Harlem.

Charlie Rangel? Not Charlie Rangel, but you know, it was... I'll remember his name later. And this fucking gent comes over to me at one point this old guy and like a great like blazer and i was like hi he was like hi and i was like hi and he's like i'm the proprietor and i was like oh that's cool i want to introduce myself like that yeah at this like cool like jazzy Yeah. Fuck, what's his name? It doesn't... Who cares?

I don't know. Box office game. Okay, so this film opens... And this film was a hit. Yeah. Mild hit. Nothing insane, but... It was certainly relative to...

Is this movie unreleasable? Right. And opens... What's the date? It opens basically June 1962. Wait, it was 165 opening weekend? It beat Dead Man's Chest, right? But then it...

In its first, it seems, wide weekend, which is what we're doing, and a couple weeks into its release, it's opening number five. Okay. That's not bad. No. Number one at the box office, Griffin.

It's a Delbert Mann comedy. Delbert Mann comedy. Two giant stars. No. Number one at the box office, Griffin. It's a Delbert Mann comedy. Delbert Mann comedy. Two giant stars. Okay. It's a rom-com. Okay. Two giant stars. Man and Woman, rom-com.

Delbert Mann. Yes. Is Cary Grant one of them? He is. And he's playing, and stop me if this sounds too crazy A rich guy Okay And the lady is not rich

She's unemployed and kind of figuring it out And it's kind of a whoop Okay Hmm What is this movie called? The film is called That Touch of Mink Oh sure And it stars Cary Grant and Doris Day

Sure Sure Big hit. I'm too tired to guess. Huh? You're too tired to guess. Oh, he's tired. I don't know. Big hit. Made $17 million. Nominated for three Oscars.

You know, just a classic Cary Grant hit. Just a touch. Number two at the box office is a political drama. Political drama. Is it not Manchurian Canada? No, it's a Preminger. It's less famous than the absolute top tier 60s political dramas, but it is a Preminger movie. It does have a

badass Saul Bass poster, and it stars a bunch of heavy hitters. It's not a fucking Man for All Seasons. No, that's... I'm just running through titles in my head. I know, I know, I know. Okay, he knows.

Well, you got Henry Fonda, Charles Lawton, Burgess Meredith, Gene Turney. Do I know this movie? Is this like a known title? It's a known title in that it's like a political phrase. It's about, I think, the confirmation hearings for a secretary of state. You know, back when they really made

just the most exploitative trash. Lois Cumberland. you know back when they really made just the most exploitative trash um lowest company it's called advise and consent oh okay I was never gonna get that cool poster though cool poster it's a tag on a briefcase yeah with the cool title

capital it's good never seen it a young Betty White isn't it younger yeah R.I.P. Yeah. R.I.P. Bless up. Number three at the box office.

By the way, I'm throwing a Betty Centennial tomorrow. Is it tomorrow? Yeah. It's just, it was too late

for me to cancel. You've already bought the flowers. Yeah. And I bought the magazine covers. Go on. You already

booked DJ Mariko. Number four, number three, number three, number three at the box office is the Best Picture winner of 1970, sorry, 1961. It's in its 37th week of complete box office domination.

It's one of the most famous films ever made. I might know it. What won Best Picture in 1961? It's not Sound of Music. No, but it is a musical. West Side Story. Oh, of course. It's West Side Story. Of course. The story not Sound of Music. No, but it is a musical. West Side Story. Oh, of course. It's West Side Story.

Of course. The story of the West Side. The most West Side film ever made. Until Stevie even went maybe even a little

further west. 11th Avenue. Yeah. This was just in a trivia thing I did. Go ahead. And I had said Sound of Music

and got corrected. Right. So I watched you step in the exact pitfall I did. Yep. Number I watched you step in the exact pitfall I did. Yep. Mm-hmm. Number three.

Number four, sorry, is another rom-com. What? Starring some famous people. Okay. About three men looking to meet needs that are not being satisfied in their marriages. to meet needs that are not being satisfied in their marriages. Their bachelor friend arranges for a quote-unquote

kept woman who is in reality a sociology student studying the fantasies of contemporary American men. Sounds crazy, right? This isn't Balls of Fire. Nope. Good premise. It is kind of a crazy premise.

What is this movie? It's called Boys Night Out. Okay. And the boys are James Garner, Tony Randall, and I think Howard Duff. And the girl is Kim Novak. It's a Michael Gordon film. I've never seen it. It sounds wild.

She does not actually sleep with the men, to be clear. But she keeps making each one think she's sleeping with the other ones, I think is sort of the gimmick. Interesting. Sort of the Three's Company style weird arrangement. This is exactly what you could do in The Hays Code. Right. It's also got Patti Page,

Zsa Zsa Gabor is in this film. Well. James Garner wrote in his memoirs that Novak was, quote, more interested in her makeup than the script. Okay. Fucking James. James. So that's Boys Night Out. Number five, Lolita.

Some other films. Hatari. The John Wayne African Game Hunter rom-com. I've never seen it. Howard Hawks movie. I bet it's good. It's a Howard Hawks movie. It's probably pretty good. Bon Voyage,

which is a Disney Fred McMurray movie. One of their fun ones. I think I know about that one. Yeah. Let's see. Henry, Harry Willard

makes good his promise to take his bride of 20 years on a long delayed trip by ship to Europe. They're accompanied by their kids. Comedy ensues. Reading here,

Bon Voyage has been announced as a Disney Plus original series. Yep. Posley Crowther didn't like it. Now, we've heard of some other movies. We've heard of Mrs. Harris Go to Paris.

What about Mr. Hobbes Taking a Vacation? The Monsieur Hello remake? Yes, it's Jimmy Stewart, right? Yeah. As the Ulo type. I've never seen. I haven't either. It's odd that it exists.

Right? Isn't it odd that it exists. Right? Isn't it odd that like that movie in particular is so much just his performance and his directing style. Right. The idea of remaking it

it's like it's not like the concept is that interesting. Number nine is something called The Counterfeit Traitor. Okay. Starring William Holden.

Okay. Some kind of espionage thriller film. Mm-hmm. And number 10 is Judgment at. Okay. Some kind of espionage thriller film. And number 10 is Judgment at Nuremberg. Another heavy hitter from 61. I almost guessed. I mean, you know.

This is probably somewhere around here. One of those movies. Yeah. That's the box office game for Lolita. I don't have anything else for you guys. I don't either. Fran, thank you so much for doing this. Oh, thank you for having me.

To make it very clear, the way we often book this show is we'll be like who haven't we had on in a while who are people we've never had on that we should have on and we'll throw out to them like here's the miniseries we're doing tell us which ones you want to do and it was one of those things it's not like you were like our 20th choice for Lolita I don't want to make it sound like

25th maybe but it was a thing when we were throwing to people the full list Yeah, yeah, yeah. No one wanted to touch it or people would go like, I would do this, this, or Lolita. And if we circled back to them and said, hey, a lot of interest in those other two. Would you do Lolita? They'd be like, never mind

I actually don't want to do Lolita. So then, very quickly, we said who's the bravest person we know? Who knows books like a motherfucker? Yep. Who's got a giant lolly? Who's got a giant lolly? That's me.

Yep. And as we know, anytime Fran Hoffner comes on the show, he fucking suplexes Lin-Manuel Miranda in the ratings. True. Yeah. I don't really want Lin to think there's some kind of rivalry between us. I do see us as- There's us. I do see us as equals. You're not.

You're much more powerful a draw for this show than he is. I'm so sure, yeah. Fran, is there anything you want to plug Fran Magazine? I'll plug Fran Magazine, my little old sub stack. And that's it. Read the lollipiece on Gawker. Oh, yeah. On Gawker.com, you can read about my six days with my lollipop

including a nice little visit my brother had to the city while I was Shout out Owen. Shout out Owen while I was going through this. Funny to explain to someone not sort of all about self-sabotage for comedy how and why you self-sabotage for comedy.

It's really hard explaining it to the normals. Yeah, you just it's like science but less rewarding because nothing good comes out of it. You're just like, well, we'll see what happens. My misery. Yeah. It's an experiment where you know the outcome and you hope that people enjoy the outcome. Here's a great part of the stick, of the lollipop,

that I didn't make it in the story, is the stick, which is that when you have a lollipop that big, stick is made of wood. Small lollipop that I didn't make it in the story is the stick. Which is that when you have a lollipop that big, stick is made of wood. Sure. Small lollipop, you got a paper stick. Starts to wilt. Starts to wilt. Tastes horrible in your mouth. Yes. Wood lollipop stick? Fine. Pretty good. Not bad. Huh. That's a ringing endorsement.

Everything else about it? Not good. I don't like lollipops for the reason you articulated. Yeah, I mean, I don't even really like hard candy. So this was really... cough drop the minute you i like a cough drop but the minute you unwrap a lollipop it's like well now i've got this fucking thing to deal with it's the kanye west tweet about now i'm responsible for this water bottle i mean back when he was funny yeah not a psycho a little. A little bit of a psycho. Thank you, Fran. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate,

review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media and helping to produce the show. Thank you to Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork, Lynn Montgomery, and The Great American L

for our theme song, J.J. Birch for our research, and Jim Keen, Alex Barron for our editing. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for some links to some real nerdy shit,

including blank check special features, our Patreon, where we do commentaries on franchises, along with other things. We're doing the Roger Moore Bond movies.

We're saying, give me more. Yeah. But we're also doing two Kubrick bonuses coming up, 2010 and Dr. Sleep. And then a mystery one coming later in the year.

Tune in next week for 3,000 Years of Longing. And as always, how did they ever make a podcast out of Lolita?