Blank Check with Griffin & David - Lust, Caution with Chris Weitz

Episode Date: September 2, 2018

Director, screenwriter and producer Chris Weitz (Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, The Twilight Saga: New Moon) joins Griffin and David to discuss 2007’s extreme erotic espionage period thriller: Lust, Caution. But what makes this NC-17 rated film a blank check? How was Tang Wei’s career affected after the release of this movie? Did one of the hosts go through a Jessica Alba phase and can the listeners guess who? Together they examine green lights in Hollywood, scoring films, Wetflix and foregrounding the mahjong. This episode is sponsored by [Hims](https://www.forhims.com/blank) and [the Bechdel Cast](https://www.bechdelcast.com/) on [HowStuffWorks](https://www.stuffmedia.com/). And check out [Operation Finale](https://tickets.operationfinalefilm.com/) staring Ben Kingsley, Oscar Issac and directed by Chris Weitz!

to kill the enemy she would have to capture his heart and podcast her own oh what's what are you replacing break i don't know that's okay yeah i mean that sums it up i got another one here's here's the other tagline from the real poster from the academy award-winning director of pod back broadcast yeah that's good yeah good. Yeah. Have we started? Yeah, we've started. You're talking earliest to have ever jumped in before being introduced. Very early. I mean, I have a respect tradition.

Yes, thank you. A true blankie knows when to jump in, and it's ASAP. I think we've been saying the name of this miniseries. Thank you. Yes, right. Like, I don't even remember what the name of this miniseries is. We've been getting Yes, right. Like, I don't even remember what the name of this miniseries is. We've been getting it wrong because we established,

we picked a name and then we told the great Pat Reynolds to do the artwork and then I forgot what the name was and I said the opposite thing of the artwork he had made.

I think it's officially Pod Back Mountcast. That is what it officially is. But I think I've been saying broke pod mountcast almost every episode. We have. It doesn't matter. It's silly that we do this. All of this?

Yes. Especially name these absurd names for our miniseries. I did see on the Wikipedia entry people were saying it is yet to be seen if they will correct the name of the miniseries in later episodes.

Fans are on it, as always. On the blank-a-pedia. You're going to have a blank check wiki entry now. That's pretty exciting. You have a real wiki entry, but you could get a blank check one. I'll be very proud of that. I think I've got a wikipedia one. Oh, that's big. I think I've got a Wookiee-pedia. Oh, that's big.

I think that we have to look up because we have spent a lot of time on Wookiee-pedia. Yeah, of course you do. I'm not Wookiee-pedia'd myself. You're an American screenwriter, director, producer, and actor. Hey. According to Wookiee-pedia. Actor, sure. Hey, you were in some movies.

I was in a couple. Yeah. You know, you've got some works of note. American Pie, About a Boy, Golden Compass. I'm introducing our guests, I guess. Oh, yeah. The Twilight Saga, New Moon, Cinderella. Link, one citation, your IMDb profile.

But there you go. You're on Wikipedia. Congratulations. No picture, though. You could add one. See, the thing I like about the blank check with you, the fans, the listeners who fill them out, it's not just like regurgitating

the info available somewhere else in the internet. There's some flavor, yeah. There's some flavor and they write specific to your relationship to the show and the things you've established within the episode. And also, Richard Lawson asked for there to be a paragraph break,

Richard Lawson is openly gay, period. You know how like a Wikipedia entry will have that sort of dramatic announcement in the middle of like personal life or whatever he donated $30,000 to the John Kerry presidential I want a Wikipedia entry and then I want

like one of those like little announcements at top with like an x-wing where it's like this page is under construction or you know where there's like the page is bad and they have to have a little like picture of like yoda being like editor wars yeah a lot of controversy which ad ad it was destroyed in the battle of something or other i should know these so you should know these things you wrote an ad app battle uh chris whites is our guest today chris Weitz! You wrote Rogue One. I am one of the writers

on Rogue One, yes. You were screenwriter on Rogue One. How... A Star Wars story. Yeah. How deeply did you have to go into, like,

Star Wars studying for that? I was already pretty deep. Yeah. Here's my attitude. I'm like an orthodox Star Wars fan, which is like, all that matters to me

is the first trilogy. By which I mean, of course, Phantom Menace trilogy. Yeah, because the other things just happened later. I don't really care. What I care about is the young Anakin Skywalker and his fall from grace. And those later movies, I heard they're not even finished yet. I heard he's still working on them. And you know what? They just blow up another Death Star.

It's repetitive. They blow up two more Death Stars. We already had Starkiller Base. Now I'm going backwards in time somehow. You have your own order. You go seven, eight, nine, one, two, three. I've got a reverse machete. No, I mean, I thought it was going to be kind of a nightmare

of having to become the ultimate fanboy. But you felt like that stuff was mostly at your fingertips. I felt like what I really wanted was mostly at my fingertips. And then there was Pablo Hidalgo, the famous, who was there. If I had questions, for instance, I had some important questions about kyber crystals. Sure. I forget what they were now, but.

They're the things in the lightsabers, right? They're the things in the lightsabers. What they are. Oh, my God. I don't want people coming after me man I'm sorry people are gonna like this gonna

did you introduce Wills were you the one Rogue One has Wills talk and I was like that's the original George Lucas

napkin scribbling that he like presents to Alan Ladd and Alan Ladd's like okay sure I did I did

yeah that was that was me because I wanted to go deep I wanted it to be that's what I appreciated the sort of ultimate fan movie in as much as everybody who's working on it, I think, was a deep, deep fan from back in the day. So yeah, that kind of stuff was important to me to get in.

And I killed everybody. You did. That is my kind of innovation. Was that your big moment? That was your big moment. They need to die. That's awesome. So there was a time when they were like, well, maybe we'll keep them around and they can have Rogue One 2.

Rogue Two. Yeah, there was a time when it seemed as though nobody believed that Disney was going to let the heroes die. Sure. Right. And I remember being in the meeting with Alan Horn in which he said, well, I guess, I mean, I guess because of the thing, they've got to die. I didn't want to fist pump at that point. It was an internal fist bump.

He gave you the permission and then you ran off and you killed them all. I destroyed them. Wow. That's one of the best things about Rogue One is you get to do all these wonderful dramatic deaths. I like to think it's justified by the situation. Yeah.

No, right. It would be weird if it was just like Final Destination and they had like increasingly comical, like they drop a space toaster in the space bath or what. Lightsaber accident. That would be interesting to see one of those. Sort of looking down the barrel of it. Anytime you see someone use a lightsaber, exactly.

You're like, how does no one one cut someone's arm off by mistake? Those things are dangerous. I do want to see, now that there's this question of what the Star Wars stories are going to be, if they're even going to continue within the franchise. I want, instead of like, oh, let's do sort of sidequel, prequel stuff. I want them to just go like, just pick a movie and remake it in the Star Wars universe. And be like, it's Final Destination in Star Wars.

It's while you were sleeping in Star Wars. You just pick a good movie you like and you just go pick a couple. You open on Dex's diner. Right, you do Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore with Dexter. You pick a film you love and you go to Pablo Hidalgo and he'll pick

the species, he'll pick the ships that match up with the film. Like she's like a lonely ticket taker on the Coruscant monorail. Exactly. He's going, oh, okay. Coruscant. And it would be a Poggle the Lesser. Let's put him in there. Yeah, of course.

You got to get Poggle the Lesser in there. Oh, man. Do we ever meet Poggle the Greater? Or is that it? It's just Poggle the Lesser. Yeah. Oh, man. Do we ever meet Poggle the Greater? Or is that it? It's just Poggle the Lesser. Yeah, I think, I mean, my thought was always,

is it, is he not named, is it not like, oh, he's Poggle Junior? Is it that he has to work up to becoming Poggle the Greater? Is it Gandalf the Great,

Gandalf the White type situation? He doesn't have a twin or anything. Yeah. He's also an Archduke, according to Wikipedia. He's a good Archduke, according to Wikipedia. He's a good guy.

Yeah? You think he's good? Poggle the lesson? I don't know. Isn't he like, enslaved people? No. Stage gladiatorial, you know, combat or whatever? He didn't mean it, though.

He didn't. Okay, fair enough. It's the time and place kind of thing. Right, right, right. We have to respect the culture of his planet, the gladiatorial, yeah. We can't erase history, okay? We can't say he was important.

Archduke Poggle. Yeah. Right. He's the clickin' sound bug. Yeah, he's the clickin' dude who's got kind of like a tendril beard. Right, he's got a walkin' stick.

He's got a walkin' stick. He's a Geonosan. And he was part of the Confederacy, right? Yeah, he's part of the, the whatever. Space Confederacy. Right, the bad people. Sepatists, whatever they're called.

I don't know if you don't want to talk about this. Oh, what? You had your tweet before Rogue One came out. Oh, God. I think I wrote a take about that. This was like a nightmare for you, right? Well, it was a nightmare for me. Apparently, it was a nightmare for parents everywhere who suddenly were really upset that in theory I said that they were Nazis

because they bought Stormtrooper toys. I didn't know that... First of all, it was a joke. And like many jokes that one regrets on Twitter, not a very good one. I remember it being fine. Look, I wrote a take about it. Look, a deleted tweet won't hurt Rogue One.

Wow. Okay, I've read that. I think that in the depths of my depression over that whole thing, I read that. But here's the thing. I actually hadn't even meant to say white supremacist. I think I'd meant to say human supremacist. I think you did say human in parentheses maybe.

Yeah, I should have just said human. You said they are white supremacist human organization. You know what? Get out of this podcast. How dare you, Sully, the good name of Stormtroopers. Look, on this podcast people never say things they regret. Least of all me.

People never read essays they regret. That was a lesson in Twitter, I gotta say. And that was the last time a film director tweeted something that got them in trouble with Disney. It's good that people learned from that. Everyone learned from that. No, but my question is are you implying that

their biggest concern was parents don't like thinking that the stormtrooper action figures are Nazis well I gotta say actually first of all both Lucasfilm and Disney were not too incredibly fussed about of course they were fussed about it of course they do care what parents think

and what fans think. But they weren't. They didn't like smash me with a giant mallet. But I think. Hey Chris. Walt's favorite mallet remained on the wall.

Here's here's why I actually have regrets about that. Not just in terms of sending a stupid tweet but just generally speaking is like yeah it upsets some some parents. And you know you can't always expect people to take things in the that not just in terms of sending a stupid tweet but just generally speaking is like like yeah it

upset some some parents and you know i you can't always expect people to take things in the spirit in which they were intended sure a and b uh let me see it kind of like the conceivably i mean the movie did really well thank goodness as far as that tweet is concerned. But I wouldn't want to damage the work of a lot of people I like. So that's why I felt super dumb about it. As well as just having said something in the moments, thinking like, oh, this would be a funny thing to say. But there was such a weird, there was an element of it, at least a sliver of the reaction to it,

I found surprising, were the people who were acting as if you were applying politics to those characters that never existed before. Right. That's the ridiculous thing. The original Star Children was hyper-political. Right. And all that was intended.

I think all of that was intended. I mean, actually, I think George Lucas might have had the Vietnam War in mind. That was his big touchstone. But there's so much sort of visual echoing of the Nazi party in the empire. Force Awakens, the Nuremberg rallies. Absolutely, right.

That's like the introduction, the big introduction to General Hux. Yeah, but I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings or get people freaked out. I certainly didn't mean to receive, you know, neo-Nazi hate messages either. That sounds fun. That's a really fun experience to have. It was interesting, I got to say, because I feel like it was a sort of a canary in the coal mine experience for me,

that like getting hate tweets. Right, because that's pre-election too. It was pre-election. Right. Where you're like, hmm. Yeah. This isn't. There's something going on here.

Storm clouds building. What's with all these frog avatars? Yeah. People like frogs all the time. I mean, I like a frog once, you know, cute to look at. I don't know. I don't know why they're so into frogs. This is, of course, our episode on Lust, Caution.

Lust, comma, Caution. One of the great comma movies. Yes. I love a comma and a headline and a title. This is a blank check.

Yeah, we said that, didn't we? I don't think we did. It's a podcast about directors, filmographies, filmmakers who have massive success

early on in their career were given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes projects. Poggles. Poggles.

Poggles. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby. I guess this is not this is actually not a bouncer. No.

Because it actually did really well in China. It just didn't make much money in America. Right. Yeah. Skimmer. Right.

No one got hurt. Skimmer's a good term. That's a good one to add to Lexicon. Skimmer check. Is that like when I deposit my rent check and it's like my bank account goes to like $6?

It's like, yes! Just in time. This does definitely feel like a blank check movie, though. Sure. I think people don't think about it as much as... No, because it wasn't that expensive, but still, yes, he's got his Oscar. But it's a cash-in in terms of

they never would have let someone who didn't just win an Oscar make a movie like this at this budget. Do you know how much it cost? It cost $15 million, and it was largely funded, I think, by Chinese and Taiwanese studios. But yeah, right, because it's not just that he's making a historical epic, and it's not just that he's making a foreign language film. It's also that it's incredibly sexually explicit. All of that to secure a budget, that's an Oscar winner's decision. Yes. The thing I was very surprised by was...

And it's hella long. It's very long. That's the other thing. Very long. Sure. I had not seen this movie before. Okay. And I remember when it was coming out, reading reviews, seeing the trailers.

Yeah. I don't know if I just misremembered everything or if I just had a false perception of this film, but I thought it was like nine and a half weeks. I thought this was like... Yeah, that's true. It was just like a rotten bedroom. On the reputation of the movie, you just think it was like two and a half hours straight sex. Yeah, I guess they kind of doubled down on that in America with like,

hey, it got an NC-17, so we might as well lean on it. I think that was their thing, like weaponize it because NC-17 so we might as well like lean on that. I think that was their thing like weaponize it because NC-17's always been such a kiss of death. Which it was. At least make it seem really sexy.

Sure, it is. Sort of. The sex stuff in this movie is, they go hard, but it's not a very large percentage

of the film also. But even also, the sex scenes are these very tense power plays. They're not real. It's not like nine and a half weeks

where it's like very titillating. It's not a sexy movie a half weeks where it's like very titillating. It's not a sexy movie, weirdly. No, it's not. And I think, so I have a theory about this movie, which I could save for later, but I'm just going to roll out

the preview of the theory, which is that every once in a while, for the film, I think Ang Lee is one of the greatest living filmmakers. He's an amazing filmmaker. And E-Drink Man Woman is maybe one of my top five

favorite films of all time. But every once in a while, he will sort of seem to discover something new and be like, yes, this, this one. And like with the Hulk, it's like CGI. This is going to, I'm going to use this. And I think with this one, it was like, ah, fucking. Like I haven't, I haven't done this before. Like all my other movies have been quite restrained. Yes.

This one. We're going all out, baby. And it's also like with Billy Lynn's long half-time. It's like 72 frames a second. It's going to be great. And sometimes they bounce. Sometimes they bounce, baby. When you hear

about him, it is always also right. People around him might be like, are you sure about the camera? This frame rate thing is great. And he's like, no, it's going to be great. He's a very driven, positive-minded director in that sense. The thing I keep hearing about him

post-Life of Pi is that he's like, I never want to do a 2D movie ever again. Wow. He got so into 3D because everything he set up after Life of Pi

before Billy Lynn. That kind of depressed me hearing that. Let's just work in 2Ds, man. There's enough Ds. But Billy Lynn, that was his big thing, was like,

I want to make a 3D drama. And he was developing a couple things before Billy Lynn went and all of them were 3D. Wow. He wanted to do a Muhammad Ali,

George Foreman movie that was going to be in 3D. I remember that. And that got shut down because I think the budget was getting too high. Sure. There was a bunch of stuff like that.

Boxing movies don't really play in the same way they used to. Yeah. Although Creed, but anyway. He definitely does seem to, you know. One of the reasons we picked him, why we think he's so interesting, is because there's just such a weird variety of stuff in his filmography. Yeah, I love that. Because he constantly needs to find some new shiny toy,

whether it's thematic or whether it's like genre or technological or whatever it is i think that's very apt he does seem really excited by the idea of sex in this movie not like a horny way but like 100 hours of sex scenes uh were shot insane like or they shot for 100 hours and like we i read an interview with him where he was like it was very punishing and difficult work like he doesn't talk about it like you know it's really like fun to dig into this he was like it was very punishing and difficult work like he doesn't talk about it like you know it's really like fun to dig into this he was like it's very hard we had to work very hard he doesn't seem like the kind of filmmaker who would enjoy directing no no i mean nothing in his past filmography really suggests i mean every indication is that he's like a total gentleman and like not a kind of a james cameron you know like a brow beater and so I mean

just to put the director's hat on like to direct I wouldn't want to direct sex scenes one of my worst experiences just personally as a director was like a topless scene in American Pie I was about to say

I was going through sex the whole day but then you made American Pie you made like a totally like made, like, a totally, like, sex-obsessed comedy. You broke onto the scene, like, essentially, like, reinventing a genre. But that kind of wasn't, I mean, like, my brother and I weren't dying to do a sex comedy. It's just like you direct the first movie that you're allowed to. And, I mean, I really loved the script, and Adam Herz did great work, and it was super fun, and probably the best time

I've ever had making a movie but that's not me and like to just like you know just my brother and I trying to to direct like

a topless scene is just so the saddest thing you can imagine like okay now you take off your clothes and then because we're so embarrassed

I think that's like a thing that people who haven't spent time on set like don't understand is how embarrassing it is even to just do anything on camera yeah right so then you add on like okay any sort of emotional vulnerability gets really uncomfortable like anytime you're on set with like an emotional scene where someone's like crying all the guys like holding the boom poles just look uncomfortable. Yeah, of course. You know,

they're like, I shouldn't be here. This feels like kind of private. Right. And like, God forbid, like, you know,

like nudity and stuff like that. And then beyond that into like actually like replicating sex. Like that's the sex in this movie looks really like acrobatic. It's very physical. It's very physical. It's very physical. That's what's interesting about this and feels like the thing that he kind of landed on was like, I want to make sex that actually looks like sex. Because watching the love scenes in this movie, you're like, oh, most sex in movies looks really fake.

It kind of underlines how bullshitty it is there's nothing there's nothing kind of soft right core about this although i do think that like there's some really strange contour bodily contortion they go for it that i i don't know i haven't i've never considered before yeah when you got tony lung you know you gotta you you gotta fold him like a pretzel I don't know but like imagine having to direct that

and being like no 15 degrees higher with the leg no the other leg I think he's like that because I remember speaking to Eric Bono once about

shooting the Hulk and he you guys have pointed out that he's he's very intent on body language and sort of getting that right but like the position

of the head the way that your head is tilted like from one degree to the next is very very important well that's why the hundred hours then kind of makes that make sense yeah but then you also go the movies like 240 sure and i'd say there may be five minutes of sex scenes six yeah certainly it's mostly not sexy right that is true right it's it's not even like i mean it's a little bit like uh blue is the warmest color those sex scenes are very long though but there's kind of like the one big section yeah you're

you're you're right you're right and then it's a lot more just emotional right you know dating content right but this is kind of a 13 year old kid watching this on hbo in the old days right you'd be like you'd be waiting it out a lot. You'd learn a lot about Shanghai in the early 40s. I guess it was a Japanese puppet government? I had no idea. Right, yeah.

This is one of those movies that would have identified cinephiles at a young age because all the 13-year-old boys would stay up to watch it and then one out of every

1,000 would go like, wait a second, but the camera angles are really interesting. It's really building very slowly to an emotional climax. I'm not saying butts, but the camera angles are really interesting. He's really building very slowly to an emotional climax. I'm not seeing butts,

but the mise-en-scene is incredible. But that's the part where this movie gets so blank checky is that like, with this script and this story,

right, you could have seen them go like, so do you think you could get it in a PG-13 if we're clever about how we do the sex scenes? Right, right. Like this boy doesn't even necessarily need to be R.

Right, but to him that was paramount importance. 100% if we're going to do it, the sex scenes have to be visceral. I guarantee you there were heated discussions between the MPAA and the studio where it's like, well, what if we took some thrusts out? Yeah, right, right. Not that shot. It is interesting how thrust thrust you read about that they're like

two thrusts not five then you shall have your R we had I think we cut two pie thrusts as the last thing

to get down to R on American Pie it got that bizarre and there were multiple pie situations right I remember there was like

a harder pie edit there was a more less caution kind of pie version that we didn't use by the way while we're having there was like a harder pie edit there's a more less caution kind of pie version that we we didn't use but by the way

while we're having fun here I want to say also the sex is problematic in this I want to be the first to use that word ahead of anybody else because actually

I was kind of distressed at the sexual politics of it's a little it's a little horrifying I don't think it ages well I mean it's more horrifying that she that this becomes an emotional relationship that's the thing that's

bad but i don't think that's unintentional like unfortunately you know like no or not unfortunately but i think i do think that's part of the larger point he's making it's not like this is not a love story exactly no well it is it's a very complicated affair they're having what it reminded me of was that i think some scene i think is it is it in any hall i forget which but there's like there's some scene where it's like a hollywood party and a guy saying like it's a movie about a guy who screws so good and what do you go screw so good what are you talking about you know and it sort of felt like that like there was like this kind of um a thing that i don't buy about it where it's

like yeah she's she's getting swept up in a web of sensuality. And it doesn't really matter that the guy's clearly sadistic and frankly. No, what were you going to say? He's evil. Yeah, I agree. Well, certainly by the end of the film, that's crystal clear. The arc kind of goes that at the beginning, not to jump into like the meat of the movie, but at the beginning, the sex is purely like violent and terrifying and it is fully abusive with no gray area. Yeah. And there's the point where it starts to feel a little bit more consensual.

Sure, sure. And he's softening slightly also outside of the bedroom anyway, like, you know, the ring and all that. Right. But that's also tied to the fact that she seems to be enjoying it more. Sure. So you're saying that the complication comes from the fact that it's like she starts falling for this evil guy

once the sex becomes enjoyable. Yeah, and I also, I'm not buying what they're selling, I gotta say. Yeah. This is sort of a trope that I think Game of Thrones got in trouble with before because it's so fanboy intensive.

They're like, oh, what are you gonna do? It's like where Daenerys is raped at the beginning by what's his family? Jason Momoa guy. Yes, Aquaman himself.

She marries Aquaman and then she eventually loves him and I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know about the viability of that. In the book,

that's also not how it goes, which is interesting that the TV series dials it up. That she loves him eventually. No, no, no, that he rapes her. That doesn't happen in the book. Their first sexual encounter, he first sort of tries to kind of like mount her or whatever, and she sort of turns them around.

Oh, no, let me show you a sophisticated new way. Right, so the bond is much quicker and not as like... And I think the TV show is like, and not as like got it and i think the tv show is like we need to like push the brutality of this because like we want it to feel like she is really like stuck in this horrible situation but it's just a mistake emma turns makes over and over again as a trope this sort of uh the the um the the journey from kind of abusive sex to obsessive yes love is like i just don't i think i think so probably you would go into this movie thing like tony lung is fucking you know so incredibly charismatic you won't understand it it's fascinating that right he cast him in this

role that is so inhuman and evil like that he is one of the most charming actors alive and one of the most handsome actors alive no i of the most handsome actors alive. No, I have that thing too. Like I have such problems with Fifty Shades of Grey. I've not seen those. I try to engage with it a little bit just because it feels like enough of a cultural thing that I want to know what it is. And I'm constantly checking myself and going like, is this my puritanical whatever? Is this me being a guy? Like where's my hang up here

but there is something about the fact that um the relationship does feel straight up abusive to me it doesn't i think that's because 50 shades of gray is poorly written yeah i do like not to be mean but i do think like 250 shades i mean but like i do think the core problem there is that mr gray or whatever like they're trying to be like the movie is not actually about a guy who is like very into bdsm it's about like a very damaged man right because she's always like finding like trauma in his childhood and like that's like the crux of every movie where it's like oh it turns out this and so the movie's like and that's why he does this stuff and then you're oh, so he's just like a traumatized person who does abusive things.

Rather than like, oh, you know, he likes to have a contract that you sign and you negotiate and whatever. And also that it's poorly written in a way where the character's behavior is totally inconsistent. It also doesn't make any sense. She works in a hardware store. I don't understand any of this stuff. It's all dressed up with a lot of money and Jamie Dornan being sexy. Right, right. And the apartment and the private planes.

It's also, you know, I mean, can I call bullshit on a major aspect of this franchise? The shades? There's only one shade of gray. Wait a second. She works in the paint store. Multiple shades. I don't know about that. Doesn't she work at a hardware store in the first one?

Yes, she does. Because he comes by to buy rope. You know, this is how I spent my birthday. I went to see Fifty Shades of Grey on my birthday. Like the first one? Yeah. I saw it on IMAX. You saw it on IMAX?

You see it on your own? I saw it with like four people. What? Were you like excited to do this? I was just like, fuck it. Don't Fifty Shades of, is this Pacino awake again? Like we're all going to die. That's what it kind of felt like.

That's what it kind of felt like. Yeah. Wait, I want to pull back. I want to pull back. Okay. We're talking about less caution. Correct. Sorry.

Chris, for some insane reason, you like our podcast. That, that we can get into that if you, if we want to. I mean, I don't know. You had tweeted, we didn't know you were listening and then you tweeted uh about the starship troopers episode indeed yeah and i said that it reminded me that that's that's a a work of genius actually that's a great movie um that's great and well yeah here's the thing is is that i i love your podcast because um amongst other reasons there is a genuine enthusiasm for film and i have been having this kind of crisis of uh meaning with with films uh and uh and it it made me want to work in hollywood well it's like man they're really hard to make and bad films are hard to make. And I don't know. I'll bend them.

So from time to time, you think like, and also if you make them, you can no longer really watch them in the same way. I'm sure you experienced this too, Griffin, where it's like, you know, this shot, that shot. Sure. Look at that extra doing that. And so I've started to go a bit uh on the question of like why why films and uh this sort of started to renew my my faith that's that's very that's the highest we could possibly

get yeah um but so then you're we're chatting and we're you're saying well i'm gonna be into town and we're like uh sort of looking at our schedule griff and i are conferring we're like oh there's a lot of like stuff we don't have like a guest already want you know expressed interest in how do you feel about

Lust Caution Hail Mary pass and you responded with you've used the score as your temp track or temp score I've temped the hell out of that score

which I did not expect you to say no well I think Alexandra Desplat yes he is my homie. We've done four movies together now because we just finished working on the fourth movie.

And... Was it Golden Compass when you guys first joined up? Golden Compass was the first one. Yes, yes. Then... That's a good score. The Twilight Saga colon New Moon. And then A Better Life.

And now we just did Operation Finale and so I love his stuff needless to say and I think he is fantastic

and I actually think Less Caution is one it might be my favorite it's an underrated score I feel like it's amazing and he's the kind of composer

he works in such bulk like he'll have like six scores a year and you don't know how he does it. So, it can be hard to sort of like find the gems sometimes. I think,

yeah, his underappreciated ones because people know the ones that sort of got, you know, Oscars and whatnot. I had too many. Lost Caution,

Painted Veil is pretty amazing too. Painted Veil is a great score. Good movie, great score. Yeah. But Lost Caution, I think actually,

not having because I hadn't seen I agreed to this before I haven't seen the film off of the temp connection yeah and

and actually I don't think that it is cut particularly well into the movie that is to say I don't think it gets its day in court sure

in the way that it is understood in the movie yeah if you're doing temp you get to hear the whole track and then you're like oh we're going to use this bit here and you hear it over and over and over again so these themes are really in my mind there's some these beautiful lush uh melodies so did you you you know that he's your your friend your collaborator do you go well let me pick another one of his scores so i have something to cut to. Is that how you landed on that one? Well, when you're

temping during editing obviously the scoring's going to come much later and sometimes maybe you have shitty synthesized versions of what you might use down the line. Mostly, so you're trying to get what suits the movie but also to avoid temp lock

which is like when you fall in love with something that you've put in. And yeah and and ideally you're you're temping with uh with the composer work of the composer that you're that makes sense because then they're not thrown because they're also hearing the temp actually alexandra i think said to me that he would rather not have any temp music at all in the movie that he sees but that isn't possible for me to do yeah i need to think or else it just doesn't make like the movie just doesn't seem like a movie i mean some some sequences are like only supported by music i mean like certain kinds of you know montage pieces or certain kinds of shots you know we're going to have music and so uh i think i sometimes

maybe we send alex Alexandra a version without music. But at least he's familiar with what he was going for at a point in the past. Right. I was, so you said that. I went, oh man, what a funny coincidence. Then I watched this movie last night and I realized the score for this movie is what my old acting teacher used to use in class. Wow, to like hype you up? To like lock us in used to use in class. Wow, to hype you up? To lock us in, to go deep.

She would play this track and guide us through her thing where everyone would think about their mother and start crying. Wow. So I have this almost Pavlovian... You do a very strange thing. I just want to point this out.

The weirdest fucking thing that makes no sense. Right, yeah. And this is Elizabeth Kemp who passed away last year who I've talked about. It was the one acting teacher I sort of loved to work with the one Ellen Burstyn hooked you up with

and then refused to acknowledge yeah but she was like a very hippy dippy lady who did all this stuff that when it was described to me I was like I don't want to fucking do that

no and then I was like what you just described to me sounds like my worst nightmare it was truly like yoga mat in the floor of a church in Harlem

where she like played the less caution score and talked about a green light going into your heart and thinking about your parents. And I was like, this is so dumb. And then 90 seconds later I was bawling and then I gave the best performance of my life. I kind of like that. I would like to do that part. I wouldn't like to do stuff in front of other people.

That's right. This seems more like the meditation class kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Privately, I think it might be a rewarding experience. Doing that in front of another person is, I would literally wake up in a cold sweat. That would be a nightmare. Well, that part of it was everyone lying on the floor

with their eyes closed. Sure, okay. So you had the self-awareness. And you're silently crying. Right. There's the self-consciousness of knowing you're around other people. But the thing I liked about that class

was it wasn't like, okay, and we prepared this scene and we're going to perform it for you. Like a lot of it was the meditative stuff and the just sort of getting out of your head, getting out of your sort of physical tension sort of stuff. And then like at the end, people would come up and do what they were working on, but she didn't let people do like the material by and large.

What actors do is amazing i gotta say it's really strange i mean i suppose you could look at a stupid like if you look at one fact look at it from one angle yes it's stupid another angle it's like this weird ritual of like channeling uh yeah voices i i like love uh doing it and i love watching it and I feel dumb all the time if that makes any sense. Right sure. Like it just feels like such a weird like I can't be doing this right. Cause so the thing

that's so strange about it is like whatever anyone tells you doesn't really matter cause you have to figure out how you work like your brain doesn't make sense to anyone else your body doesn't make sense to anyone else you have to figure out your voice and all that sort of stuff I liked her a lot as a teacher because she would just play less caution

and let people tap into their own thing without being like this is the way you do it but I know Valerie Curry who passed on Future Guest plays my sister on the show we were talking about all the tricks we have to use when we're doing like crying scenes and something like the tick we have to use when we're doing like crying scenes. And something like the

tick, we work on like a TV schedule. So we have to do... You gotta cry right now. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it's sudden. Oh, we changed the scene order. We're doing this now. We have to do like you know, seven or eight pages a day. And sometimes it's like a bunch of stunt stuff and then a comedy scene and then like an

emotional scene. Right. And it's literally just the stuff of like, oh, I have a crying scene coming up. Okay, let me find the biggest light on set and just stare into it for three minutes until they call action. Wow, that's how he went blind. Right, so that just the second I start, I'm teary-eyed and hopefully I can run from there

or whatever it is. And in theory, you're priming the pump. I mean, it's not just fakery, right? Because you're trying to access, like once you start crying, you actually, the emotions presumably follow sometimes. Right, but it's a combination of things. Sometimes you just think about what the scene is and that gets you there.

Sometimes you're like, fuck, I got to think about my dad. Sometimes it's like physically punishing yourself. Damn it. Whatever it is, but it's like you're just... Again, very strange. So weird. So weird. You can understand why many actors are kind of cuckoo because they

have to do these things yeah they suddenly have to do this emotional sprint and then it's like okay thanks now we're gonna reset the lights i mean i i do sympathize it's so bizarre yeah yeah i mean you you have done a little bit of acting so i feel like you have that sort of knowledge of at least knowing how weird it feels only enough to know how weird and uncomfortable it is. Which I think makes a big difference. With the people I've worked with, the ones who just are like, I've done that for five seconds and I hated it. I get it.

I'm with you. I feel a lot more secure. But something like, not to bring things right back on topic, but I look at the sex scenes in Lux's Caution and I go like, how could you ever feel comfortable doing that? Right maybe that's the hundred hours is like for two hours it was deeply deeply

uncomfortable and then like about three hours in they're sweaty they're angry and then you get there you are but even so like even on a closed set you still got a bunch of people watching you doing technical things while you're supposed

to be you know doing and then getting notes on that is just like yeah people kind of feel like hey look it's it's actually better for sound if you don't hit his back yeah it's like you know when you when you bite his nose yeah if you could just angle out a little bit because otherwise we're getting shadow there's this Michael Douglas quote I bring up I think I brought it up on the podcast before where he says like it's the worst thing to do because everyone watching has probably had sex and like is

like thinking like this is bullshit and he says like dying is his favorite thing to do because no one has ever died so they're not going to be like he's dying wrong and that's it just I read that quote and I was like you've done so many he is douglas is like the sexiniest actor there is and it also is like he was doing the most like over crank right the most intense 80s like fatal attraction basic instinct but then you think about like those things are all about like the angles

and the editing rhythms and if you're actually looking at it like as a person on set and they're both wearing like flesh-colored underwear very strange and they're like trying to make it look right on camera it would look so unlike human sex right yeah that's like a thing in this movie is it's like a lot of full body shots yeah that's true for me what like makes it kind of startling is that the actual awkwardness of their bodies together. That because you're not just getting clipped angles. They're not just looking for beautiful pictures. It's like the herky-jerky movements feel, you know. And this is where a man who can make beautiful pictures.

He can. So this movie, I started up and immediately go like, oh, I guess I have no idea what the fuck this is. Whatever notion I had of what this movie was, I guess is 100% wrong. I saw this. You're like, why are all these people talking? Yeah. It's like 10 minutes of Mahjong at the beginning.

Yeah, that's true. This movie is, that's the most angley thing about this movie. Scenes of intense Mahjong. When I was watching it, I was like, I wish I understood the rules of Mahjong because Oh my God, that would be so much better. It seems like there's a lot going on. Like, there's that thing where she gets the red tile and everyone's like, whoa!

Is that that big a deal? Is this like Casino Royale? Would I be on the edge of my seat if I knew? But yes, no, but that felt like Ang Lee's favorite thing is those charged mahjong scenes where it's all chit-chat and all small talk among the ladies. The wives who really kind of

secretly hold the power. Right. Joan Chen holding court. That's some good shit. That stuff is great, actually. I do like the Mahjong scenes. You know what? It should have been all Mahjong. In some ways, it's a very old fashioned movie because it starts in this kind of thing and it's like four years earlier.

And it feels very traditional in that regard. It to me i was gonna say that media res opening yeah feels very like 40s 50s hollywood and then you're in let's put on a show you know it's like uh you know little rascals all of a sudden where they're like oh here we are in hong kong let's all right actually there's a brief interlude right where they're on the road somewhere in China. And we know that they're refugees heading to Hong Kong. They're going to university in Hong Kong.

They sign a Japanese war, so it's like, you know, Japan and China, China's still this like very unstable place. Hong Kong is like one of the

bargaining chips, almost like one of these sort of colonial outposts that's different from the mainland China. But that's the thing. He's casting all these Hong Kong actors. Yes.posts that's different from the mainland China. And he's casting all these Hong Kong actors. No, that's the thing that feels very classical to me.

A trope that's still used today, storytelling-wise, is the start at media res with a crazy, crazy situation, and then the, like, I bet you're wondering how I got myself into this situation. A thing that feels very 40s, 50s Hollywood is start with something that seems kind of innocuous, live in it for a period of time,

and then jump back. So the first 10 minutes you're just like, I don't know. Yeah, the first 10 minutes is Mahjong and then like a phone call and you're like,

oh, there's Mr. Yi and oh, what's going on? Tony Leung shows up and you're like, is this the meeting? Have they already met? Like it's a little like the Carol opening. Sure.

Yes, that's right. I forgot Carol has that opening, right? And that's barely a media res. It's basically an end res. Right. Like, you know. But then when the film cuts four years earlier, things are more dramatic. Yes.

Like, it's not like they're going back to a simpler time. Yeah. I wonder if you need the beginning. I mean, so I saw this film in theaters in 2007 and then had not seen it and when this movie started I was like watching I swear there's all this stuff with the students like checking the Wikipedia

be like wait a sec and then realize I forgot about this sort of opening it's kind of like one of those editorial choices you make where you're like well what if we sort of framed it with the scene that they come to later but usually when you frame it that way

there's like something like you said something like exciting like holy shit because we're gonna foreground all the action to show but instead

they foreground the mahjong you know and you're like we gotta get some mahjong in earlier otherwise how are people gonna know you know

that's the strength of our movie yeah they had to lead I mean the big selling point in this movie was tits and mahjong No. You know, that's the strength of our movie. Yeah. It's all about the tiles. They had to lead. I mean, the big selling point of this movie was tits and mahjong. Those are the two things. It should have been called Lost Mahjong. Lost Mahjong.

All right. So we've got this university student played by Tang Wei. And you know this movie stars the two stars of Black Hat, right? I do know that. Yeah. And they're siblings in Black Hat. That's right. They are. Right. Because she's Chris Hemsworth's love interest in Black Hat. Have you seen Black Hat? No, I've not seen Black Hat. I do know that. And there are siblings in Black Hat. That's right. They are.

Because she's Chris Hemsworth's love interest in Black Hat. Have you seen Black Hat? I have not seen Black Hat. Big fan. Black Hat's good. Try to track down that director's cut

that has only played on FX though. Yeah, I still haven't seen that. I only saw it theatrical. It's crazy. He moves a major plot event like an hour earlier in the movie

and then suddenly the movie makes sense. Like that movie's the opposite of that where he took a thing that's supposed to happen at the end of Act 2 and made it the cold open but just changed the chronology of the events. Like nothing else is It's not a flashback so the movie doesn't totally make sense

Yeah and then he puts it He puts it where it belongs and then suddenly it makes sense He's a it belongs there it is anyway yeah and then suddenly it makes sense yeah he's a weird guy I mean look Chris take it from us

you gotta wear that hat Chris you should go on the DJ podcast and be interviewed by Michael Mann because that is the most incredible thing

in my entire life is the episode where he interviews Ridley Scott oh yeah and he's just like rich people are really interesting

and Ridley Scott's like was there a question and he's just like, well, you know, rich people are really interesting. And Ridley Scott's like, was there a question? He's like, I don't know. It's like that for an hour. Every time Michael Mann takes the mic, it's eight minutes and it doesn't end with a question mark. It ends with him going,

I guess there isn't a question. I just wanted to say, I thought it was well made. He doesn't care to, you know, he will happily roast Michael Mann. He's not going to dig him out of that. No, no, he'll be like what i mean ridley scott is also gravel voice i'm making him sound that's like the gravel cast yeah it wasn't really

i was like i could listen to these two talk every week just about like their haircuts or like you know the ravens or whatever i don't know any any old crap i think tongue way i'm sorry no time was fantastic i think she is so good in this movie she was I'm trying I'm looking like she was unknown

like you know this is her first role and it was a hyped thing of like you know Ang Lee picked her she's been in like some TV shows I think she's gonna be a big deal

she makes this movie she gets she's blacklisted by the Chinese film industry yeah for like four years oh was she? yeah 100% blacklisted

yeah she's back now though and she is actually pretty big. She actually had a rebound. But yeah, she was basically, I think given, it's almost like sports. She was like given

like a two year ban. Like it was like, we just can't make movies with you. Right. Because you'd made this explicit movie. Like how shocking.

Tony Leung, no ban. No, of course not. But he is not from mainland China. He works in the Hong Kong industry, which is more, you know, a loosey goosey. Also, come on, he's a guy. He's a guy. He works in the Hong Kong industry, which is more, you know, a loosey-goosey. Also, come on, he's a guy.

He's a guy. He plays with people. What is he going to do? He also is and was a pop star, right? Tony Leung? Am I mistaken? He has a music career as well? Yeah, yeah.

He's done music. I don't think of him as like— Was he an actor first? Because Lee Hong Wong, who plays Johnny— He's like a big pop star who's the other half of the Black Hat siblings yes

is a pop star yes he's like a pop star first Tony I know he had boyish looks did Tony Long just do like a

crooner album or two based upon he might have pulled a Downey Jr. yeah he was named one of TVB TVB is He was named one of TVB. TVB is a television channel.

One of TVB's Five Tigers, aka the five hot young stars in the 80s, along with Andy Lau and Felix Wong, like these other... And then he was in something called Police Cadet, which sounds good. Played a lot of policemen. But, you know, yeah, he's done some singing.

I do feel like that's a thing in China that every movie star needs to have at least one album. Yeah. That I kind of wish was enforced here in the States. Also very old-fashioned, I think. The only people doing it is... This sort of like triple threat kind of idea. Disney Channel kind of does that. Right.

Where they're like singing, dancing, acting. Right. It would kind of be nice if it happened with adult actors. Yes. If they like forced Paul Giamatti to do an album every time he did a movie. Joe Pesci has an album. Yes! Because Joe Pesci discovered Frankie

Valley, right? Wasn't he their manager? Someone plays Joe Pesci in Jersey Boys, which is the weirdest thing. Right. Yeah. Joe Pesci was just a guy who worked in the Jersey Club scene and then Scorsese likes him. He was like a b who worked in the Jersey club scene. And then Scorsese likes him.

He was like a bouncer. Yeah. He put out a rap album, though. He did. That's true. That was more in the Home Alone era, right? Yep. So you think every star should also have to do a novelty rap album?

Correct. For Tony Leung, I feel like this is a shocking role for him, though. Because he's the handsome leading man of Hong Kong cinema. He'll play cuties. He kong cinema he like he'll play you know cuties he'll play love interests he'll play like heroic cops but like this is like such a villainous role it's like casting tom hanks in this type of it is yeah god something interesting is like um so uh eventually these kids are putting on a show uh decide they are decide to become spies and assassinate the tony lung character who is a collaborator right i love that though they get into revolutionary uh

the movement through the revolutionary theater right and people see how taken everyone is by her like she's a great performer speeches they go like we gotta weaponize this and we gotta use it yeah but the interesting thing to me is that the only murder on camera that you see is done by the people who we sympathize with holy crap they're stabbing this guy to death whereas Tony Leung we know is doing terrible things but only describes them yes he describes the most horrific things yeah he does but I i wondered what was the reasoning behind that and perhaps it's just sort of give the to give a visceral sense of violence but also that tony lung somehow is immune from it in terms of how we're supposed to regard him it's so much of his powers wrapped

up in his sort of like how well dressed he is how sophisticated he is right and i think that that is like you we never see him do anything and like that's maybe part of just the horror of collaboration where it's like well all I'm doing is signing papers like you know I go hey look you know you can forgive me like yeah once the but he's also describing people with their brains out of their head no it's not nice yeah he's he's clearly doing some but you're right the only violent scene is that scene that sort of ends the first act of the movie which is like horrifying which is I think really well done it's one of the most like there's that bit where he like stabs himself in the hand by mistake like it's so clumsy and nasty and it feels like so what a murder should feel like like you know realistically when they first say to

when they try to give her the pitch of like look i know we just had that good play. What if we start killing people? Right, it is an escalation. Opening night was a hit. Why don't we start murdering? And she's like, I don't know how to, I got no experience. Well, beyond that, they're like, you should seduce him. And she's like, I am a virgin. There's also that hanging up. You're talking about two things I got no experience with. Murder and sex.

But they keep on saying this whole kind of thing of like, when you think about those people, what they've done, when you get in the room with them, you'll know how to kill them. They remain emotionally driven the entire film. And I think that's kind of, as much as, and I'm

still sort of trying to wrap my head around the movie, as much as I can sort of parse the point of the sexuality and what's being said by that relationship, it's that she never stops existing on an emotional level. She always remains a sort of human person. Right, but I think a lot of the movie,

especially the brutal sex scenes later, the woman's role in this revolutionary movement is even more inhuman. The things they're doing to her are even more horrifying in a way. Oh, 100%. But she is never able to sort of turn it off. She's always feeling everything.

And so even though this relationship with him is abusive, she's in it deep enough that she starts having, whether it's like Stockholm syndrome or whatever it is, whatever sort of transitive feelings for him. And he treats everything like it's just a fucking job. You know, he's able to very clinically and calmly describe what he's done until the end. And kind of keep his hands clean of it,

at least emotionally. Right. Yeah, and I think in theory, she is getting sort of corrupted by it, or, you know, it's insinuating itself. There's this weird scene too where old woo the spy master for the resistance uh is like talking about how the spy has to sort of just never be emotional or involved in any way you know i would sit down with this guy in spite

of the fact that he killed uh my wife and two children and then she starts talking about sex and he's like nope go away can't deal with it like and to me that didn't quite read where i was like jeez old woo come on man but right but that's yeah they they can't and like she's sort of breaking hearts uh like inadvertently like within the resistance cell because um uh uh wang lee hom's character is so in love with her and won't say anything about it. And then she's forced to sleep with this other guy. Sleeping with the other dweeb

just to sort of get some experience in the bedroom. There is something interesting in terms of how it fits into his whole filmography, though, because he so often is interested in emotional repression. This is a character whose superpower and her kryptonite is her emotional access. You know? Sure.

It's like they go, oh, you should be in the play and she's like, I'm not an actress and they put her on stage and she starts crying and screaming and they're like,

wait, that's powerful. You can make people fall in love with you. Right. And she's like, I don't know love. I don't know murder. And then they like

throw her in the deep end. She just walks into her room and everyone's like magnetically drawn to her. There's that scene after while she's still having sex with the student when she's just you see her lying in bed she's covered uh the sheet and then she sort of flings off the sheets and like just walks up to the window and the the scene has no purpose apart from that like you know and like we just cut to her then her she's dressed and like and it does feel like angley's like

this is an awakening for her as like brutal and it does feel like angley's like there this is an awakening for her as like brutal as it you know like she there is independence here that is like a little seductive right like even though it's right because they sell her on this idea she tells them that she's a virgin and they say look look there's only one guy in a group has any sexual experience right and she's like with whores and it's like like, look, we don't got, you know, beggars can't be choosers. They send this guy in who comes in, like, takes a final swig out of the bottle. And it's like

so depressing. It's quite depressing. The whole situation. She looks so physically uncomfortable. It's so unromantic. But then you see them sleep together a number of times after that, and she starts to sort of gain control over the thing. At least in the sense of her being like, let's just get this over with.

Sure. You know, he says like you're getting the hang of it and she's like, shut up, shut up, just finish. All right. You know, I think to me what it lacks for her character is some sense of where she starts. That's true. She does just kind of like get dropped into the movie. Right.

Right. Yeah. She's like a mousy girl who they like activate and then she becomes like the center of a hurricane. What we know about her is that her father has remarried and he's in London now and doesn't want her to come over or can't be bothered to sort of get her over to London. And to be clear again, like Japan is invading China. Like there's this collaboration government.

That's what they're resisting. You know, there's like a Chinese nationalist movement is what they're part of. Yeah. Which is eventually going to be sort of what retreats to Taiwan, actually. You know, like what seeds Taiwan because they flee the communists. Later. But she starts seducing him. Infiltrates the Mahjong game.

She does. Right. Things get really heated. Beats Joan Chen. A couple big Mahjong set pieces. And then there's this moment when she comes back, reports to them, oh, they're leaving. They're moving. We're fucked.

We missed our window. Sure. And then his, is it his driver? Like who tips him off? The guy who comes back where they have to murder oh you know it's um oh yeah good point uh it's the contact who was from the same village as right he's from the same right yeah um uh is from and he works with mr ye he might be the driver get what his role yeah and he's kind of um he's potentially blackmailing them or he's like, hey, I could work with you guys.

he doesn't seem like, he's not saying like, for sure, like, you guys are in trouble. I'm going to, because that would be weird. He wouldn't come to them.

Right. It's more, he says like, hey, I'm from the same village. You think I don't want liberation. Right. And then they just stab him to death.

Right. Really, really clumsily. Well, because it's for real now. Right. Like, you know, this, this shit is scary and hard and frightening and violent yeah and also

it's like they kind of think like oh it's like a movie you just tap the guy and he's down right yeah right because they do the very dramatic stab and he's like ah and then it's like he's still there right yeah yeah they're like looking uh downstairs right and he's like he's still alive he falls down the stairs it's not funny but it like there is that reality that's a very upsetting line of dialogue where you know somebody could hear you and you're saying he's still alive yeah uh basically and it reminded me of that moment in casino where back to joe pesci again where joe pesci says he's still alive about his brother who's been beaten with an aluminum baseball bat. And he's like basically saying kill him please.

Because it's that thing of like okay so the one guy makes this like knee jerk decision right? Okay this is what we gotta do we gotta kill him. Stab him. Thinks that's it. That's done. I did the scariest thing I'm ever gonna have to do. And then the more they realize that this guy

is like the black knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the more everyone else has to like jump in and keep taking turns. The deeper they're in, there's no way they get out of this now. There's no way this guy survives. So someone has to deliver the death blow. And everyone just keeps on taking their shot. And she's out in the balcony the whole time. Yes, she's watching from the window. She remains innocent of the whole thing. Well, because it's like that's not balcony the whole time. She's watching from the window.

She remains innocent of the whole thing. That's not the woman's business. That's the man's business. But even the other women in the group. I'm not saying the movie is saying that. They think that. But she's the one person who's not following this motley

crew of murderers. They finally snap the guy's neck. It's horrible. so deeply upsetting. And then the movie is like, end of act one. Intermission. And someone comes out with like Jolly Ranchers

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It's like movie stuff talk about sexy oh boy see that's like a very like at this point you go like what the fuck

is this movie for sure and then it jumps four years later yeah back to Shanghai right I guess that's maybe

why he has that at the beginning because then when it makes that jump you're not like, wait, what the fuck's going on? Right. You know. And she's, yeah, she's in Shanghai.

She's back in school. Japanese-occupied Shanghai. Right. And she runs back into a place. She's clearly traumatized. Sure. She's studying Japanese because that's how nihilistic it is that she's like oh fuck it i'm gonna study the language of the oppressor she goes to a uh a movie a

carrie grant movie thinking that she'll get some kind of uh autumn serenade something oh yes yes uh and and um and but like five minutes in the movie simply stops and japanese pro-japanese propaganda comes on and the whole audience goes oh not again and they stand up and walk out i was trying to yeah i was trying to think is like is that just like a thing where there's a part of the movie where they're like well we gotta cut this out so we'll just put in an ad or is it just like now it's just that's what i was trying to figure out because they suckered you in here now we're just going to show you this stick around i feel like they're suckered in. Yeah. Because otherwise I would hang out.

I'd be like, okay, propaganda. Right. It's like, look at my watch. But you're asking, are they trying to kill two birds with one stone

and like, inflict censorship on American movies by replacing the objecting scenes with... With Japanese propaganda. Yeah.

It's not a good business model for the theater, for the cinema to do that. Because those people aren't coming back. Ben, just drop in the Japanese propaganda. It's not a good business model. No, that's true. For the cinema to do that. Those people aren't coming back. Ben just dropping the Japanese propaganda right here. The thing that I think is kind of interesting is not just are her hands clean of the murder because she's physically on the other side of a window,

but she seems so traumatized from the moment the first stabbing happens. Yeah. They had been telling her like, when you're in the room with these guys, you know what these people have done. You have a gun in your hands. You'll want to do it. Right. And she seems so

uncomfortable with the violence actually happening. I think that they're all imagining it's going to be one bullet to the head. Yes. Right. Yes. And then it's like, you know, victory, like another scratch on our side, like right where the movement continues.

I also want to point out that Tony Leung is considered the Hong Kong Cary Grant. I have no idea if Ang Lee is being cute there. Like being like, look at this handsome guy in his suit. Turns out he's a sadistically sexual collaborator.

He sucks. So she gets re-recruited. Yeah. Look, we didn't know what we were doing earlier. We were kids. That was a dog and pony show. Now we've made it to the A-list. We really got an operation.

He's back in town. You got to seduce him. Sure. And the KMT has only gotten more like sophisticated, I think. So, right. They got a little more of like an infrastructure now. And they're in Shanghai. And he's like the secret policeman.

He's like shooting people. Signing death papers and all that stuff. And so she's given some training this time. Yeah. Right. Yeah. She's given some training this time. Yeah. Right. Yeah. She's given a suicide capsule.

Yes. Classic. And he says sew this into your clothes and then I imagine she's going to have to like redo it every time she changes

her outfit. Yeah that's actually really annoying. I'd be like can you give me like 40 or something. I'll do it all at once. What if I forget it?

It's a very phantom thread. Yeah. Sewing it into the lining. Never occurred. Unless you have a cyanide capsule. Yeah, right. Yeah. So there's this like...

This is a funny movie. This is such a... A lot of opportunities for humor. Yeah. Clearly. It's like our Amistad episode where we were like, okay.

Things are rough. Oh, wait. I don't know why I just remember this, but sometimes I'm listening to your podcast and I think of jokes that I could have said if I were there. Okay. So you guys are talking about Titanic and how the Italian immigrant character is very stereotypical. Super Mario himself.

I wanted to jump in at that point and say, as a matter of fact, when he dies, he says, mama mia, that's a spicy iceberg. Danny Nucci, I hope you're listening. I think that's his name, right? I just love the notion of a spicy iceberg.

Everyone's scared, then they go like, there's a bit of heat on this thing. It's got a bit of a kick to it. That's why I went right through the metal. In my memory,

he said mama mia as he dies. He doesn't actually say mama mia. I believe he just goes, ah, as his smokestack crushes. And it doesn't go, I'm going to win. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's more of a Luigi, actually.

Yeah. Anyway, sorry. I just disrespected those words. Fabrizio. I was like, what the fuck's his name? He's a good guy. He's a really good guy. So, yeah, not many hyucks in this.

No. No, especially not in, well, no, not in any of it. Apart from the mahjong. Mahjong's fun. Mahjong, no Shanghai hyuks. There's some early, more innocent time Hong Kong. The theater, the students, there's a little bit of ball busting, I guess. But this is the section of the movie. The second act is more just like Tony Leung's balls.

We go from ball busting to balls. No, but this is where the movie starts getting really terse. Right. The first scene where it's like, okay, this is some femme fatale, like spy seduction thing we've seen in movies before. And he just essentially assaults her. Right. You're thinking, right, the honey trap is working. He rapes her.

He attacks her. He binds her with a belt. And then he unbinds her and hits her with the belt. You're like, oh, the honey trap is working. Rapes her. He attacks her. He binds her with a belt. And then he unbinds her and hits her with the belt. You're like, oh, he's unbinding her. Oh. You know, it's a, you know. It's very strange. It's a very strange series of choices in this scene.

And I think that, yeah, I guess you could say he only knows how to communicate at this point through violence. Right. I think that, I would think that is the idea. I'm sure if you sat Ang Lee down, that would be his concept. And she is stuck having to bear it given that, that she, this is her job

to try to kill the guy. So that's also justified. Right. But what, the part that I don't quite get, even with the Tony Leung and the, the Rodrigo Prieto

beautiful shooting of it all is, and she's starting to get into it. Like I don't get that. I don't either. The best I can figure it out. What my analysis is just this notion of the, not the repetitiveness of it, but the duration,

the length of time she has to continue seeing him and being involved with him. Right. Eventually, like, it's biologically. It's taking hold. Yeah. In a creepy abuser-abused relationship. victims of abuse that some aspect of it that they need to internalize some aspect of it as making some sense.

That's my sense of it. It's not that it's like she's falling for him because she's enjoying the sex. It's because she is having to repeat these acts over and over and over again. She's having to pretend so avidly that she is in love with this guy that it becomes a sort of effect.

Because she has that scene where they're sort of briefing her. Yeah, and she basically breaks down. Right. And she sort of says it's a very odd feeling plotting to assassinate the man that you're involved with. Can I swoop in with context corner? Please. All right. So this is based on a novel by Eileen Chang, who is a famous um chinese writer uh who is long dead it's like a short novel yes a novella perhaps you

could call it and i think so i think a lot of you know a lot of this is in the novel and she's trying to write about honey traps are very common uh in the days of the kmt and like you know the resistance and stuff and i think she's trying to like sort of you know de-glamorize like right she's trying to like really like dig into the inherent misogyny of like that and how these women were used

and abused and obviously it's based on I mean she claims it's not but it's inspired by the story of a real Chinese spy who was executed, who became sort of a folk hero. And I think their family were annoyed by this movie because they were like,

she never fell in love with the guy and yada, yada. That's not how it went. So they had to be very clear like, well, just inspired by it. It's not about it. Sure. Oh my God.

For the first time ever. Yellow card. It's great to be the first time ever. Yellow card. It's great to be here at this moment. Do you got, alright. It's a spam call. Thank you. I want to ask you a question. Do you get spam calls every day now? Yes. So much in the last few months.

And it's always from numbers that have my area code and my exchange. So it basically looks like my number. That's how they get you it's so how are they doing yourself exactly where i'm like i'm supposed to be like oh 646 like must be a friend of mine and then i pick it up and it's like you want a trip on a cruise or whatever i get five a day now it's what's going on i have no idea there was an air times article about it about and i said there was a chinese in fact so there were a lot of like chinese spam companies and stuff.

But how do they do that? How do they make the number something I recognize? Do they leave voicemails? Yep. I rarely get voicemails sometimes. I have one now that it's constantly being like, you need to call us back because you have a lot of credit problems. Right, the IRS. And you're like, yeah, duh.

But it's something like, you owe us money. They're like yelling're like yeah there was an irs thing irs for sure i keep on getting college loans and i go you fuckers i dropped out of college i'm dumb you can't trick me because i'm a loser and i dropped out they're just trolling you uh yeah it's true yeah credit are you my dad auto something you know sometimes i wish i had insurance on your car is running out. And I'm like, wait a second. You know, it's that trick.

Anyway, sorry. That's what I'm calling it. That's like, what kind? Those are really bad people. I mean, I know that's sort of an obvious thing to say. Someone should do something. I kind of think it's cool, though. That's true.

I'm not going to lie. You think it's super cool? I think it's kind of cool to be like, what's your thing? What are you into? Well, a little scam caller guy. You know those calls you get? That's me. On a scale from 1 to 10, how surprised would you be

if it turned out Ben secretly was running a phone scam bank? Yeah, that'd be classic Ben. Offshore. I feel like that's a, I mean, just looking from the outside, that's a persona that he adopts. It's the kind of edgy. One of his characters. Right. Perhaps slightly criminal.

But now that I see him. Oh, right. You're meeting Ben for the first time. He's a sweet boy. Well, I'm a bad man. You better not cross me. I also want to point out this film was written by James Seamus. Yes.

And Wang Huiling, who wrote Eat Drink Man Woman and Crouching Tiger. So it's the same team. Same team, exactly. Good stuff. I mean, that is to say, they do good stuff. They do. But this is a weird one. It's so weird that he made this movie.

It's so weird. I mean, I think you're onto something there with the idea of trying to de-glamorize that type of narrative right because it does feel like one of those movies that's like hey you know that type of story you've heard before we're gonna show you the version of it that just sucks right it just makes you really uncomfortable and as awful as the real world that's the thing because it'd be one thing if it was just uh that he's an abusive monster sure that's right fine we understand that i'm sure that's what these people were often like but like the the further uncomfortableness of like and she's she does eventually just sort of get stockholm syndrome into it it's such a bummer to the extent that it fails like i mean this is the thing the movie ends with her warning him because he's beginning

to show just like slivers of humanity and so she's sort of moved enough to prevent his death she is so moved by his lover i don't think it's even that she's sort of moved enough to prevent his death she is so moved by his lover i don't think it's even that she's so in love with him but she is moved by his gesture which is clearly all he can manage is to buy her some shit right uh yeah and and she's like it's so nice and he's like well i just wanted you to have something and just that alone she's like sort of like flabbergasted because he's been such an inhuman monster right but she's sort of a person who can never stop seeing people as people yeah and he's kind of a person who is able to completely turn that off imagine going like all

right you've pitched you've gone to a boardroom right you've you've had to like going in like all right so it's like sexy cat and mouse thriller. She's trying to kill the guy. And the great thing is. Here's what happens. She saves him, is executed off screen, and then he feels bad about it at the end. All of her friends are killed too. Right, right, right.

And they don't even know that she is the one who messed it up. Not just for herself, but she gets her five friends killed. And they feel guilty. They think it's their fault and uh then but then he does you know feel some weird existential regret and then the movie's over he does sit down on a bed and look sad for about 10 seconds i mean when you're putting it that way it sounds a little like the ending of rogue one yeah hey it's just sort of complete well they ripped us off let's not go on other fuckers They built a time machine. Went back. Went forward.

Watch Rogue One. Went back again. Yeah. Which is not cool. What were you going to say? Misuse of the technology. Does he seem haunted? Yeah, no.

A little haunted. A little haunted. And I can just imagine a studio being like, sure, 15 million you're asking for. Okay, here you go. And do they give a check like that?

Or is it a big check? Yeah, do they have like a big check? They do. Well, what they do, yeah, they have a big, a big thing,

a big check, and then they do a big sign, yeah, signing ceremony. Yeah, big pen. Ed McMahon is there. I love that.

They pull a giant lever to initiate the green light. Confetti comes down, oh, there's the green light. Well, no, the great thing is that like,

the studio had, every studio had, has a big button, which is a green light button sure right right right red or green and if they hit red is there a trap door

and you fall you fall through the trap door well they stopped doing that because some people got hurt but so you they still hit the red button and the lights flash but you just

you gotta walk out and then like someone just comes in and goes like you have to leave now yeah but underneath the trap door is director jail, right? Director jail is a real thing.

Right. And it was pretty nice. You just don't get to make movies. But you bet like this is good beds. Otherwise it's like a hotel. Yeah. Okay. No, the thing that's a real bummer in this movie is that you go, okay, so one of two things is probably going to happen.

Either she's going to fall for him find his humanity save him or she's going to realize he can't be saved and she's going to kill him and it's going to kill her that she had to kill him it'll be tragic in a way that he's dead or brutal or whatever but right he will die instead it's she has a moment

of pure humanity that she cannot suppress and he does not learn from it but you also learn and I wonder Instead, it's she has a moment of pure humanity that she cannot suppress. And he does not learn from it. In kind. But you also learn, and I wonder if it's a bit of a get out of jail freak. But he does still sign her death paper. He learns a bit. But then it turns out his number two guy has been following the thing all along. Yeah.

Yes, yes. And so they were busted anyway. We were hoping to crack open the the cell essentially which what a bummer right yeah and that's the thing they're basically telling him like you were quasi expendable to us like if you die during this you know shrug they didn't get a woo uh no we got away the spy master yeah and it turns out also there were two other honeypot traps right they mentioned. Actually, no.

Someone tells that to her. Old Wu says that to her, to Teng Wei, that there have been two other attempts to seduce this dude. And each time he killed them. Yeah. Right. So she's the third. Right. But I think the implication is partly like that the lingering affection from back in the day

is sort of like interesting enough to him. Right. This was the first time he actually sort of fell. Right. So there is something. That is where this movie gets so blank checky is just how fucking bleak it is. And then that bleakness tied to an NC-17 rating. Like, the fact that he was able to win both of those arguments. Like, the ending is just so soul-crushing. Yes.

But also, it's going to be box office poison because we have six minutes of graphic sex scenes. Right. It's a curious film. I mean, I assume he had the final cut and all that, and he was just like, this is the movie I want to make, and there you go. Wouldn't let them cut it down for an R. It ended up getting an R cut when it went to home video because this was still a blockbuster era. And most home video stores will not stock NC-17 movies. So I watched it on, I think it was through Apple.

Do you think I saw the NC-17 one? Because now I'm feeling like I missed out. No, I don't think you did because I first looked on Apple and it looked like it was saying, and this was what was weird. It was like the R rated version you didn't see in theaters. That's because it's not. this was what was weird. It was like, the R-rated version you didn't see in theaters. And I was like, That's because it's not. Wait a second. Wait, you're trying to make this

sound sexier, but I think it's less sexy. And then, yeah, because the difference in time is one minute. It's one minute. Yes.

So it's really, balls? More balls? I mean, really, I think Benny Long's scrotum. Yeah. I did see the back.

Sure. I think you just missed more of that. I think they cut specific shots or made certain shots shorter or limited the thrusts. I mean, all this insane shit that they do. I mean, it is bizarre how much the MPA runs off of like a checklist system where it's like one thrust, two thrust, NC-17. You know what this process is called eventually? What?

Frame fucking. Really? Literally, I've had marketing and post people talk to me about it. I mean, listen, they're going to get really mad if we feel we're getting into frame fucking. But that's what it's called. Because you're like, well, okay, there are 12. We'll take out 12 frames of frontal nudity from this shot. Sure.

And we'll get closer. It's horse trading. We're not supposed to say that, by the way. I think I'm not supposed to have said that because the MPA is like, no, no, no. It's not negotiable. We just say what it is. The MPA is so strange. Well, I mean, and also, this is the thing. It's like, this film was released uncut

in Hong Kong and Taiwan, cut in Singapore, and the Singapore, like, the people of Singapore cried out and were like we can handle it and so then it was released uncut

and they're like no we've gone too far and then they all had sort of breakdowns like Tongwei has but in mainland China there

a lot was cut the dead refugees were cut oh wow the stabbing scene was cut down a lot two of the sex scenes uh with the student were cut three with mr re were cut uh the shot of her going to the window was cut uh that the um

oh whoa dialogue modified in diamond ring scene so that she does not betray the resistance wow they just changed the movie right yeah and she's still blacklisted by the chinese movie industry uh she was replaced by maggie q in some big movie that she was about to write i saw that uh and so she like moves to the uk and does other stuff for a while but now she has made this comeback and but nonetheless despite all the stuff we're saying it was a huge hit in china it did really well. Yeah. Yeah. You know, by the standards of this kind of movie.

And here it made a couple million bucks and Focus was like, we think it's pretty good for an NC-17, but it kind of was just like forgotten. Well, here's the other thing. So this film was at the Venice Film Festival. Unley had won the Golden Lion two years ago for Brokeback. He wins again yeah like and which is i feel like that's really unusual like festivals are often very like you know you already won once right especially back to back he's up against i'm looking at is zhang yimu the famous mainland chinese director it was the chair uh so it's sort of an interesting pick in a lot of ways because this is sort of a, you know,

it's very fudgy, like morally, like gross movie. It's more interesting than a chair. That was kind of slow. Two hours of a chair. Atonement. I'm seeing some of the Venice movies. Wait, it was just the chair? It was just a chair for two hours.

It was like, you know. Did people sit in it? No, it just sits there. Clint Eastwood says hi to it quickly at one point. Hey, give me back our country. Sorry. Atonement.

Assassination of Jesse James. Okay. I'm Not There. Michael Clayton. Yeah, I mean, 07 was like a big year. This is a good not there. Michael Clayton. I mean, oh, seven was like a big year. This is a good Venice festival.

Like, you know, there's, there's some, there's some Romare movies. One of those like, like 90 year old Eric Romare movies. Oh yeah.

Kenneth Branagh had sleuth there. That was, you know, whatever that one was. That's like, it wins that award and then has no awards traction after that no it gets signed for best

foreign film at the Globes I believe she got an Indie Spirit nomination I think both of them got Spirit nominations for lead yeah

it got a BAFTA foreign film and a Golden Globe foreign film nomination and yeah they both got and there's

cinematography it's very pretty. But it's kind of an odd duck forgotten movie in his filmography. Yeah. And it also now feels like you wonder if he would ever do something like this again now that he's on

such a technological kick. Yeah, I wonder. That's a good point. I wonder if he... Because it does feel like, you know, there are periods that he'll just dip back into like, I'm going to make a Chinese language movie again yeah and then this is the last one this last time he did that

so will he do it again well here's a question for you Chris you have a very eclectic filmography that's how I like to be that's why I like filmmakers like Ang Lee

they're all rounders well this is my question because we love that about him with you do you feel like that's a strategic thing of i want to mix it up i like doing different types of things is it trying to constantly

zag from whatever you did last yes definitely i think it might have started it might have started with doing american pine thinking like and getting offered every teen sex comedy and you don't want to get stuck in that i don't want to yeah but i'm just sort of thinking it's so hard to make movies right it's at least a year out of your life of really really hard work and i don't want to get stuck in that. I don't want to. Yeah. But I'm just sort of thinking it's so hard to make movies, right? It's at least a year out of your life of really, really hard work, and I don't want to do the same thing twice. And interestingly, strategically, it could be a bad decision because people become sort of known as auteurs often for doing the same kind of movie. You expect a certain tone or genre or whatever.

So that you develop a brand and it's a different thing to sort of bounce around. Like, I think Ang Lee does it. You guys were talking about Soderbergh, but he really puts a stamp on it somehow. Michael Winterbottom. You know, these people who are always like, oh, I'm going to do this crazy thing.

But usually, I'll make a movie and then I'll be like, oh, that was really hard. I want to do that again. So you're zagging mostly just because you're like, oh, no, no thank you. What's this? I haven't done this. So it's like whatever will get me to do it again

is usually something quite different from what I've done before. Well, because you could have so easily after American Pie just cashed out on that for 20 years. I think so. Just constantly be a guy who is getting all the big live action comedy scripts yeah being able to choose what you want to take on develop whatever you wanted around whatever personality or yeah but i think i'd want to die you're right you wouldn't feel yeah trapped in that sort of i mean i guess i you you could perhaps you looked

at all the stuff i did like critique me for trying to be the sad clown you know like where a a comedian is like when I you know I really want to do dramatic roles and then it's like oh god we gotta put up with

like sad Jim Carrey again no but there's like there's such a a weird and I say this in a good way like it's not just like

oh please take me seriously it's like you did like two big like YA adaptations that's true you know you did like drama D's you did drama you did like two big like ya adaptations that's true you know you did like drama d's you did drama you did like comedy i'd like to think people are like huh um which i like your new movie it's like a thriller right this is right it is a it is an assassination attempt

movie kind of uh it is the the abduction of idolf eichmann, the organizer of the Final Solution by the Israelis in 1960. So it's a spy thriller. And Eichmann was one of those like the functionary type, right? He wasn't like the grandly evil one. He was the one who's like, I'll just make sure everything works perfectly to eliminate all the Jews. That's the version that Hannah Arendt kind of put forward. Sure, the banality of evil. And it was an argument that he sort of put forward when he was put on trial.

Right, he's one of the few. There are also other takes on him which point out that he was actually kind of a careerist and ambitious and that at times he seems to be an ideologue as well. character and as much as um it's sort of hard to understand whether he is sort of the embodiment of evil or just some guy who got swept up in it or a functionary or what yeah that movie conspiracy i like that movie the hbl movie yes that's that was the one about the von zay conference right it's more than a touch it's quite it's the sousan of the touch yeah um and uh he's he plays him basically as that the sort of like softly spoken kind of yes he's a guy who's adjusting all the cutlery right right the mid-level exec but he has this moment where he talks i've seen that movie a weird amount of times i'm really obsessed with it uh It's a Frank Pearson movie. It's a TV movie. It's a great movie.

It is really good. Where he talks to someone where he's like about how he's learned Hebrew and he'll talk to rabbis and he likes to understand the mind of the Jew in ways that the others are just like, aren't they just awful? Like, I'm not just supposed to hate them? Well, that's sort of like the kind of the stuff that

Tarantino was playing on with Christoph Waltz's great monologue at the beginning of like how to think like them. Right. That's like this stuff in like in less caution. And like when you look at like Nazi Germany, when you look at like today, where you go like, where's the dividing line between these people who are like, I got a thing I got to make happen. And these people who are like, it's a living.

Yeah. You know know and like both are evil in terms of what you're saying the flintstones is about collaborators well it is a hundred percent they do have like a chattel system with all these poor animals who have to like do their dishes or whatever right live as as the fucking garbage disposal oh my god that eats is so weird that's so fucked someone came to you and said we're bringing black the back back the flintstones yeah would you would you be like i mean i can i can do this like uh do you feel like you'd have a take no i don't i don't i don't know if there can be a take

i just feel like that is the supreme hollywood 90s blank check movie where they're like sets, costumes, like blow this out. Like this should be an epic. Make a cartoon reel. It's not good. I was very disturbed. I never saw it, but I was very disturbed by the trailer in which John Goodman, he says like, I got a flat and he holds up his foot and his foot has this long gash in it. It upset me so much because it like it it's looked incredibly painful and so there should be blood sort of streaming from it you've been avoiding the movie since

that like caution they want you to reckon with well also less caution i apart from the the rave also this tearing of that really nice dress bothered me because i was like oh fuck that was like a really really like carefully tailored dress and also also, how is she going to get home? It feels very intentional, right? Where he's like all the finery of this, like the way you're being dressed up and everyone's so classy and those mahjong scenes are so like,

oh yeah, you know, and then he's just like ripping it apart. I'll say, David, you've talked about a lot how much you hate when people don't eat meals that were prepared in movies. I feel that way about clothes getting ripped. I do. Every time it happens, even when it's like a fully consensual, sexy, fun time, let's rip each other's clothes off thing.

I'm like, they paid for that? I'm like that with cigarettes where someone doesn't smoke the whole thing. I'm like, come on. It's a waste. It's a waste. If they throw it down after two puffs. I'm like, get out of here. You don't really smoke.

Must caution. Can we play the box office game? Yeah, sure. You guys excited? Pumped. I'm always astonished at the ability that you guys have. This is a weird one. Any September box office game is usually going to be weird. Okay, so this is a period of time I think

it might be very burning to my mind because this is me starting in my one semester of film school. Oh, wow. Sure. September 28th, 2007. You just flew to California. I'm not even going to try. Should I even try this?

I'm looking at Box Office Mojo. I've never heard somebody gazump you and get in before you did. I'm trying to figure out what will be more fun for me, whether to get it up on IMDb or to, I guess it would be Box Office Mojo. Yeah. You got to go with the Mojo. No, no, I'm going to try.

Okay. I'll say my thing is I remember these movies very vividly because this was the first time in my life, having grown up in New York, that I didn't have movie-going autonomy. If you remember any of these movies vividly I tip my cap to you. One of them is good. What I'm saying to you is

I think I do because I was living in California now I didn't have a driver's license if I wanted to see a movie I had to talk someone into seeing it. Oh right because you needed a lift

to aware of what to see and there were times where I saw movies I didn't want to see because I was like I need to see something. Something needs to move. The guy with a car

would rather see this than that. So let's test it. So number one opening this weekend making $22.9 million. Just to be clear, Lost Caution opened at number 49 in one theater.

Although it had a great per screen average. 63,000. Very good per screen average. I assume that was the Angelica or whatever. It was gigantic. That's like every seat. I I mean it was Ang Lee baby his Brokeback follow up you know this is a sports comedy

the game plan I had more wow do you remember what this movie is because I did not no it sounds like a movie

the game plan but I have no idea what that is it's the rock has a daughter that's correct and he's a quarterback what if an athlete had a child that he had to raise?

People couldn't get over it. And she likes ballet. Why doesn't she like football? The only thing he does. That's interesting because football is different from ballet. Very different. Very different. This is the boardroom picture.

It's like football. The slide is just a picture of a football. Right. And then they click ballet. And people go, wait, wait, what happened the last movie? These are two different pitches. boardroom pitchers like football like the slide there's just a picture of a football right and then they click ballet and people go wait wait what happened the last movie either two different pitches football ballet can't be in the same film i just remember the poster i've right is him that the daughter is in her ballet outfit and she started and he's looking like but he also has like a bulldog under his arm correct and so they're like and you don't there's gonna be a bulldog too like yes yeah right like get ready that's the way we're in a tiara it is a hundred percent but dogs

because she put a tiara on a bulldog who does that this is a disney movie the disney live action family comics that era all needed an animal like the pacifier they weirdly spotlighted a duck in all the advertising the poster for the pacifier is like Vin Diesel with like ammo and the baby. Oh yeah, that's right. That's right. Maybe they're like, they're testing. It's like, we don't know what to do. The only thing that tests well is this duck.

More duck. But that's their thing. They like get an action star, put them with kids, throw in an animal. It's like in the Angry Birds trailer, for some reason, this joke must've tested well, but one of the characters saying, Oh my God. And like, they did that like 10 times in the trailer.

It's like, you have kids. Do you see a lot of kids movies? Like, do they actually know? Because we're kind of Amish about that. We're like, we don't let them see much,

but I, sadly I did watch, I'm sorry. I'm some, I'm sure somebody I know worked on it, but the angry birds, I did watch it. I directed the angry birds i'm really sorry it's fine i checked my email uh basically i caught up on my email throughout the entire angry birds i would the angry birds is is actually like just about how immigration is bad i think yes yes it's like

there's these green pigs don't trust them pigs are pigs are bad. Right. And they've arrived. Yeah. I heard someone, Emily Ashita was talking about this. Now, David, I gotta be honest. And it's with great shame. I admit this podcast does not pass the Bechdel test. No,

no, it never really has. Probably never really will. Well, well, well, maybe on an upcoming episode. Oh,

actually. Okay. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. But, you know, it is like this, you know. We're a couple of boys talking about movies. Right.

Who fucking gives a shit? We're coming from this male perspective. We're mansplaining these things to you, you know? Sure. And, you know, sometimes we overlook the sort of quiet sexism, the way that patriarchy is forced upon us in the media, right? Okay. Not so for this podcast. It's called The Bechdelcast.

It's a great podcast. It's better than ours. It's Caitlin Durante. Yeah, I mean, much significantly better in every sense. Yes. It's like healthier. It's smarter. It's funnier.

One of the great movie podcasts out there. Yes. And by every measure, better than blank check. Yeah. And they bring on a special guest to examine a popular movie and discuss its representation of women through a feminist lens. Sure. They determine if a movie passes the Bechdel test, which is a famous test designed by Alison Bechdel. It requires two named female characters

to speak to each other about something other than a man. Of course, many movies do not pass this test. Yeah, it's a joke she wrote in a comic strip about the bare minimum. And unfortunately, still 20 years later, most movies do not pass. Yes, of intersectional theory. This podcast aims to call attention to Hollywood's long history of under and misrepresented women

and to encourage listeners to be more critical of the media they consume. But it's like funny and they tell jokes and Jamie and Caitlin are really funny. And so we're talking about some of the biggest movies of all time. You know? That's not the only lens they're viewing them from. Star Wars. But maybe Black Panther. Frozen.

Jurassic Park Twilight Beetlejuice Die Hard Beetlejuice Pulp Fiction Beetlejuice oh no he's here

Love Actually Clueless Alien Titanic Transformers many more so they got new episodes every Thursday

you can listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts Pectocast that's great listen to them and stop listening to us. Objectively.

Can you tell me someone else who's in the game plan? Fuck. I really my cap is on. There has to be like. I mean tell me who directed it. I've never heard of him. Andy Flickman? Nice. Director of Paul Blart Mall Cop 2?

Because I know he also did the Escape to Witch Mountain, Erase to Witch Mountain. That's right. Erase to Witch Mountain.

Right. He was like an early... He was one of the Rocks guys, yeah. Rock guy. I think that was

the first movie where he wasn't credited as the Rock, where it was just Dwayne Johnson on the poster. Dwayne the Rock.

Oh, it was Dwayne the Rock. Okay. Well, that movie probably has someone who was on a sitcom

at that time, an adult, and it probably has one weirdly overqualified actor to play like the head of the team or something like that kind of John Gilgood right it must have a like yeah no it doesn't have like Janet McTeer

or whatever you're thinking of Kira Sedgwick is in it oh the closer the closer herself The closer herself. Morris Chestnut. I'm guessing he possibly plays another player or maybe a coach or something. I used to play basketball with him. Oh, really? Very good guy. Is he a nice guy? Great three-point shot as well.

He's incredibly handsome. He's one of the best looking guys. And he's one of those guys where you're like, oh, he's 50? Like, you could have told me he's 28. Yeah, like he is incredibly handsome. Alright right number two okay and this is you see this is your film school year this is the film i'm doing this is the year i'm doing red carpet okay uh for people magazine and i did attend uh the golden compass as well as i told you i guess i ducked you you might have dodged no no not him i went to the after party too it was like in in like

the docklands and it was like so lavish. I remember we were like driven out on a bus. Okay, wait, I'm sorry. Hold on. I'm sorry, Chris. Hold on one second. This is uncomfortable. David.

No, the bit's retired. I know, that's what I'm telling you. That's what I'm telling you. What were you doing there? You can't bring it up. The bit's retired. Wait, I'm not allowed to talk about my life? No, we agree that we retired the bit that you're from England.

Do you see the jersey? The jersey's up there. We've retired the bit that you're from London. So you're alleging that I was just pretending the whole time, like that it was my bit? I'm saying it was a bit, and everything that was contained within the bit has now been retired. No, no, no.

Outrageous. MVP. Two championships. Number two at the box office is a film I attended the red carpet for. I believe I've talked about it on this podcast. It's an action movie. The Kingdom.

Because he told the story about Jamie Foxx and the SUV. He drove his SUV into the theater. He drove it up the red carpet. The Kingdom. See it. And they backed up. I've never seen anything like it. I was, I was truly astonished.

But then Jennifer Garner told me that she would never allow Violet to act in a movie. Oh wow. And I wrote that up and it was like the biggest story people had that week. And like, I really could call from someone being like, great, great job on that story. And I was like,

what? Like one quote. Wow. Uh, yeah. Cause moms, moms, moms, moms, like moms. It was one of those things where I was like and how is Violet and she's like great and someone else

I don't know maybe I was like you know do you think she'd be in a movie she's like no we put the kibosh on that and I came home and my editor was like what'd you get and I was like hmm and he was like write it up stop the presses and got a runner who ran I'll say she always had she's very nice to be clear Write it up. Stop the presses. And you got a runner who ran your job

red carpet reporting is. she always had her She's very nice to be clear. she had her kids on set with her during draft day. Sure. Really fucking good mom. Hey.

Like she was like constantly momming in between takes. I can buy that. Which like A is impressive because we were talking about how weird acting is.

That she'd like do a take and then go like how are you guys doing? Like jump right back into it. I met her when she we were talking about how weird acting is. That she'd like do a take and then go like, how are you guys doing? Like jump right back into it. I met her when she, we were shooting something in Hawaii and she was working with a friend of mine on Pearl Harbor. Can that be right?

Yeah, she's in Pearl Harbor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was really cool. Really, really nice. And that's Young Garner too, I feel like. That's pre-Alias or maybe no. Yes.

Maybe it's during Aliases. I can't remember. All right, number three is a sequel. It's not a squeak-quel. No. In a long-running franchise. Let me. I actually have to find out which edition it even is.

Is it a Saw picture? No, it's not a Saw. Those were firm October releases. Right, right, right, right, right. It is the third. It's the third. I think it's a great movie. Oh, oh, okay. So, well, you've given me the hint, which is that it doesn It's the third. I think it's a great movie. Oh, okay.

So, well, you've given me the hint, which is that it doesn't have a number. No, no number. I'm not sure which one it was because of the subtitle. No, it's a colon. Is it Resident Evil Extinction? Apocalypse? How do you do it? No, I was right the first time.

You had it. You had it. There's no point in my even trying to do this. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. How are you getting this so that I can follow along? Box Office Mojo. Resident Evil Extinction, which is kind of the first

good Resident Evil movie. The first one's okay, but the CGI is kind of not great. I'm a big fan of these movies to be clear. That's the one that has a bus driver named Otto, right? Ben, you like it? Well, you recommended it to me and it's on my list. Oh, sure, sure, sure.

Yes, right. I'm really into video games. Movies. Oh, that's right. No, I know that about you. You like Assassin's Creed. Not moist movies. He likes wet movies. Slick Flicks. He likes a Slick Flick. That's why you subscribe to Wet Flicks, the Netflix for wet movies.

The moister, the better thank you comedy voice yes oh yeah what if the subcategories are like damp drenched films with a soggy protagonist uh all right um so extinction extinction is kind of the first good one right uh because the second one's a nightmare yeah extinction is is where they kind of figure out what the formula of these movies are and it's doing what like mad max fury road does 10 years later no one gives a credit for it interesting uh great movie uh number four is a comedy starring like a real hot comedy person of the like moment oh so it was like a brief moment pretty brief okay so i'm gonna guess it was a dane cook movie correct but which dane cook movie and i'm gonna tell you the embarrassing reason i know this was a good luck chuck it was good luck chuck i was which i think

is really the tale because i think employee of the month did okay right like is we go lower from there because we haven't even gotten to my best Friend's Girl yet. Yeah. I think that follows Good Luck Chuck, right? Well, let's look at his filmography. Yeah, you got Good Luck Chuck in 2007. Employee of the Month was the year before. My Best Friend's Girl is 2008. Right, because Good Luck Chuck— And that's it.

And My Best Friend's Girl have almost identical premises. Oh, really? Good Luck Chuck is— Isn't Good Luck Chuck that he has bad luck? Good Luck Chuck is that after okay once you break up with him after you slept with him you then meet the love of your life exactly okay if you sleep with him you will find oh that's right right right right my best friend's girl is kind of a good premise like you could go do a movie is that i haven't seen it is that a magical fact

or is it a tendency that people are noticing? I think it's a tendency. I think they don't make it magical. And it had like, they don't commit enough. It really doubled down on, what's his name, Dan Fogler. So I was going to say, I remember this because I had,

I had the good luck Chuck character poster for Jessica Alba. That was in a big Jessica Alba phase. That's truly one of the most distressing things. It's one of the most embarrassing things I've ever said.

With the ice cream that was on my wall in my college dorm room. It was on your wall. That was on my wall. No, keep it in double it. I want I want to be open.

I want to be candid. I want to own my mistakes. Was it a push frame situation? I'll tell you what I did. No, I thought this was kind of clever. I got grip tape.

I got red grip tape and I made little X's on the No, I thought this was kind of clever. I got grip tape. I got red grip tape and I made little X's on the corners and I thought it looked nice and it didn't hold very well with my concrete or cement walls. Also had that very weird poster

that was a rip off of the John Lennon Yoko Ono picture. Very strange marketing campaign. Not a hit. The album poster, it's her holding an ice cream cone and the ice cream's dripping down her hand.

And then the tagline is, there's something about Jessica. Come on. But you know what? Actually, when American Pie came out, I think the poster said, there's something about your first piece. I hated everything about that. That's the tagline. It's both, it's derivativeness and the...

I hate to say this, but it's very... But it is a good tagline. Like, in terms of... Not a good tagline. In terms of its effectiveness. Exactly. It does kind of wedge in your brain.

I like this movie. Wasn't American Pie one of those movies that had, like, a million titles, though? Right? Like, they sort of cycled through.

Yeah. It was at first called something like teen sex comedy that can be made for under whatever I've read that legend. That you will hate

that you will hate but everyone will love audiences will love right yeah and then it was called East Grand Rapids High great title no not East Grand Rapids

sorry East Great Falls High sure yeah which it should have been frankly right right yeah that's your

and then the studio at one point tried to sell us on comfort food that's weird yeah that's terrible like you just described two scenarios in which your career possibly goes nowhere i know like my life should have flashed before my eyes i don't know american

pie there's something about your first piece uh just for for contrast uh my best friend's girl is uh academy award nominee kate hudson dumps jason biggs so jason biggs hires dane cook to pretend to be a shitty guy to by contrast to break her heart right yeah right that's a great idea i mean just not for a movie but for life but it is weird that there are two movies in a row that were dane cook being the worst guy who can make people end up with the people they should be with, but then he ends up falling for the people. So in Good Luck Chuck, does he... Falls for Jessica Alba. And does he not want to

sleep with her? Is that the gimmick? I think that's the bad guy. He goes into a 40 days, 40 nights type situation. I think it's that sort of bit, and I think in My Best Friend's Girl, it's like a Mrs. Doubtfire thing where he gets so into this persona of the asshole, but still somehow. Yeah, that's kind of like a

triple reverse. The tall alien pretending to be an asshole. Yes. Also, Alec Baldwin's in it. Fair enough. That's in the Baldwin comeback phase where 30 Rock is just hyping. Yeah, exactly. The Baldwin-issance. The Baldwin-issance. Number five is a great movie.

A real throwback. I'm giving you nothing because you're getting them all anyway. I told you this period was burning my brain. It's a remake. It's a remake. It's a throwback. Remake of a great movie. But I think this is a good movie.

Is it 310 to humor? It is the only James Mangold movie that is not a secret Western. It's just a Western. Oh, he's out in the open about it. Right. Yeah, good movie. Russell Crowe, Christian Bale, Peter Fonda. Yeah. Luke Wilson, weirdly, isn't that? Yes, Luke Wilson.

One of the early Ben Foster is crazy movies. Yeah, Ben Foster where he walks on screen and you're like this guy. You want extra sour cream on this one? Ben Foster with a barrel of paprika. Foster Supreme. You know, one of the, because like I was going to say in Hostiles,

I think I brought this up. When he appears on screen, it's because that they're like, could you take this prisoner to the next town? And then it's Ben Foster and you just go like, no, do not accept. His next 15 minutes are going to be rough. Return to sender.

He's only trouble. Do you guys remember in Cold Mountain where they demonstrate that a character is loco by having him jump backwards off a fence or something?

That's Charlie Hunnam the albino. Was that Charlie Hunnam? Yes. That's another example of a character who's extra where they're like, how do we show these crazy?

He does everything backwards and also he's albino. Yeah, that's a weird one. Some other, we got the brave one, the sort of Jodie Foster death wish. Revenge, yeah. Mr. Woodcock, which I think you've invoked on this podcast multiple times. Probably, yeah.

It's a good reference. Directed by Craig Gillespie. Yeah. I Tanya that last year. And wasn't the brave one directed by Philip Noyce? That sounds plausible. No, it's Neil Jordan. Even more.

He's a self-blank check, Neil Jordan. Because, you know, things... I mean, obviously, like, Interview with a Vampire. But also, he got to make his, like, Tony Irish Independence-like movie off of The Crying Game. And, like, In Dreams is a weird one. The End of the Affair is a classic thrusting situation. Thrusts. Where the NPA was like, we'll have this many thrusts.

Were you guys surprised in the Crying Game? I remember the first. I think I knew the twist. The moment that. Sure. Jay Davidson? Jay Davidson came on screen. I was like, oh, that's a guy.

You got it. Yeah. Did you see it in theaters? Yes. And it was like, oh. What I did know it yeah did you see it in theaters yes and it was like oh what I did know was don't tell anybody

the twist right yes I feel like Miramax really pushed that I was twist spotting for sure yeah yeah no when you watch it

now it's actually a fascinating movie it's a great movie yeah see I saw it knowing the twist but you more see it as this movie about like queer romance

like and it feels that way very early on yes but yeah Jay Davidson's really good in that and Stargate and then it's not in any other movie I see it as this movie about queer romance. And it feels that way very early on. Yes. But yeah, Jay Davidson's really good in that and Stargate and is not in any other movie. Yeah, done, right? Yeah. Two and out.

Crazy. Also, Eastern Promises, great movie. Yeah. Sort of a stealth moneymaker across the universe. That's a real blank check movie. We ever do Tamor? Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird one.

Yeah. This is like, that's like a very kind of like auteur driven September box office. Yeah, because also opening limited is the Darjeeling limited. Yeah.

Opening the Darjeeling limited. You know, yeah, you're right. I mean, this is a weekend before it went Darjeeling wide. Come on. Half a point. Half a point. I'll take them 10 dirty 10 comedy points um there you go september i love september box office games so you you have no your film's coming out and your film

will have just come out this will be almost concurrent yes this is coming out the monday after your movie comes out oh that's exciting I told myself I wasn't going to plug I'm not here to plug you're not plugging it's very exciting you worked with the great Isaac Oscar Isaac

Sir Ben Kingsley does Ben Kingsley feel weird about having played like multiple sort of villain he's playing a Nazi here. He's played resistors of Nazis in past movies. The Mandarin. He has played all sides. The Mandarin, of course. We did talk about that

a lot going into it. No. Damn it. I wanted you to sit down with him and he's like, you know, my favorite thing I ever did. I really like that performance. He was the toast of Croydon. and he's like, you know, my favorite thing is that I ever did. I really like that performance. It's a great performance. He was the toast of Croydon. Yeah,

who else, who else we got? We got your Nick Krolls. Yeah, Nick Kroll's in it. Nick Kroll, who feels very, I feel like he wants to do serious, he's in that phase of his career

where he's like, I want to do some serious stuff. where he knows he can and he's sort of got the window. Joe Alwyn of Billy Lynn. Billy Lynn fame, yeah. Yeah.

Did she talk to Billy Lynn? That must have been a crazy experience. We didn't talk about Billy Lynn. Because I'm very jealous of the work of other directors. Fair enough. You don't want to talk about other directors. Hayley Lou Richardson,

who I feel like is like the brightest talent. She's great. Well, she was in a movie that I produced. Columbus, right? You produced Columbus, right? Yeah. It's a great movie.

Yeah. Which, weirdly, was a movie that, for me, came about because of Twitter. So there are some good things coming from Twitter. Because Kogonata's video essays and stuff. I tweeted at Kogonata, and then we sort of got into an email relationship, and then it turned out he wanted to make a movie. Chris, I don't know if you know, but Ben has a pitch he's been throwing around Hollywood. I got a few of them. It's like a prequel to The Hangover.

I got a new one. No, no, I got a new one. Whoa, you got a new one? Yeah. All right, you ready? Yeah. All right. All right.

So we have this thing on the show where we have pointed out that especially action movies, the screenwriter will just have them do some kind of thing. It doesn't drive the plot along. It's just like their thing. Shows with their buddies. Well, like the example we use is we call it the blender. So in Will Smith movie. Enemy of the State.

He keeps on talking about his blender. It's like a character quirk that's just to give them a little color, but it doesn't actually factor into the story at all. They're a real person. Okay. Ish. So the movie's called Night Eggs. Okay. Wait, what is this?

I already like that. I do just on the title. Great. So it's sort of like in the tradition of die hard type action movie right blue collar guy or just like regular guy he's not like i like it it's not like um keanu's like franchise where he's like john wick he's like a ben hosley type good good call and so he um is just he's gonna have some kind of like three-day sort of situation it's like you know i mean very contained terrorist whatever you get it the reason it's called night eggs he likes to have breakfast at night and so there's all these seeds he's monologuing and he has like

he's he's making eggs making eggs i like it and that's they call him night eggs like it's kind of his nickname because everyone knows he likes to have breakfast at night does he wake up in order to eat in the middle of the night or does before he goes to bed he keeps late hours yeah okay okay but you know what i mean like but when he it's when it's like nighttime and it's dinner time is it, okay, does he discover the plot? Does the plot get set in motion because he's making eggs at night? Like out of his rear kitchen window thing? Right, because there's like the diehard thing where like,

oh, the reason he's in the building is because it's his wife's Christmas party. There has to be something where like he's awake at a time that no one else is because that's his breakfast hour. All right, and he sees a murder. Right, yeah. It's like a rear window but night eggs. Right, yeah. That's his breakfast hour. Right, and he sees a murder. It's like a rear window, but night eggs. That's good. Sure. Alright, I think we're cooking with something here.

Do you find out later that the reason he cooks eggs at night is because his father, who was a night watchman, the only way he could really show his love was to give him some of the eggs that he made when he got home from work. It's called a Hollywood note right there. That's a really good note. Thank you.

I mean, so how about this? Thank you. I'll be an executive producer. I'm going to be taking 10%. Thank you. I'm taking this idea. Chris, I'll write a treatment. Who needs it?

Just go straight to script. Where's the big check? Get the big check. Where's the green button? Where is it? Does it come out of the ceiling? All right. So I'll write the screenplay and I'll send it along.

What do you think? Like how many pages? For the treatment? No, no. For the screenplay. Oh, for the screenplay? Well, probably should end about two hours, 15, two and a half hours. That's what you're thinking?

Yeah. Time-wise? This is getting eager to breathe. Because then people know that it matters. It's an important movie. Yeah. Oh, boy. I mean, this could be a great this could be a great

cooking movie great food movie that's true i love a good food he's always gonna finish his breakfast right who's gonna sing there should be the song called night eggs oh for sure uh but we should bring somebody back to do that right um tina turner yeah tino good perfect do you know what i miss i miss when movie theme songs used to have their own titles, but then parentheses the theme from Night Eggs. From Night Eggs, right. Theme from Arthur. Yeah. Nobody did it better. Right.

Parentheses in songs, finishing a thought is pretty great too. Right. I would do anything for love. Parentheses. But I won't do that. Yeah. Before we wrap. Well, thank you for that.

Oh, no, thank you. I'm expecting great things of Night Eggs. I mean, me, thank you for that. Oh, no, thank you. I'm expecting great things of Night X. I mean, me too. Griffin. Yes. Genndy Tartatofsky

has signed on with Sony Pictures Animation to direct two features. What, did this just come out while we were recording? Okay. An R-rated comedy

called Fixed. No idea what that is. It'll never happen. And Black Knight, an epic action adventure in the vein of Samurai Jack which he has written

interesting there was a movie called Black Knight that's true I mean it's unimpeachable I mean you couldn't you couldn't beat that one that works

yeah right that works it's an animated remake right well look I mean this is the same thing that happened after

Hotel Transylvania 2. That's what I'm saying. They've announced he's on board. He's going to do his own movies with us. And we're excited. But who knows what will happen. I'll tell you the thing because people on Reddit after our episode came out or Hotel Transylvania mega episode came out. We're saying like, why won't someone let him make a 2D film?

Sure. Like if Brad Bird couldn't cash in a check to get that done like who's going to get it done? I wish a guy like Genndy Tartofsky would go to like

Annapurna. Sure. Didn't you make is an Operation Finale in Annapurna? It is Annapurna. See? I'm jamming on my stuff.

Because like Annapurna made Sausage Party and that was because every conventional animation studio was like we can't do this. Sure. And I feel like rather than going to

a place with an animation department he needs to just find a financier well he signed on with Sony so it's not happening you had a good

experience with Anna Burnham though? very good experience they seem cool they have a great lineup as well they have like a lot of fun stuff

they make classy movies I think like Sausage Party. Yeah, because they've got like the Barry Jenkins movie this year.

They have the Anna McKay Dick Cheney movie this year. They got a lot of fun stuff. Did they make the Jonah Hill movie? No, that's 824. That's 824. Okay.

Well, Operation Finale is playing in theaters now at the time you're listening to this episode, you're not plugging it. It's not a thing you're plugging. I'm just mentioning that in my own volition. I appreciate that. I didn't even give you any hand signals or anything.

None at all. And also, you know, Ants is always available to rent on streaming platforms. It's a very good script. Was that your very first credit? It was, actually. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

That was very lucky for us me and my brother we worked very hard on it it's a hell of a scrambler thank you very much thank you for being here thank you for having me

this is really exciting yep yes I will alright tomorrow okay alright

perfect no no this is great it's so much fun to do this one of my favorite podcasts. We really cannot believe that you think that, but thank you for coming. Yeah, it is very weird every time. Someone likes the show?

Yeah, anyone. I had like one of those yesterday where I was talking to someone. He was like, oh, by the way, I've been listening. Right, right. It always feels a little bit like someone has discovered my extramarital affair I'm having when someone tells me, like, I've been listening to the show. You're talking to them. Do you feel weirdly ashamed? Does it make you lose respect for the person where you're like, oh, God.

No, it doesn't make me lose respect. It makes me feel ashamed. It does. I'm like, do they know too much about me now? Sure. You know, oh, God, what have I said? You know, there's that sort of thing. I worry about what have I said? I worry about that. I was listening

to catch up. You were talking about Sam Gamgee's butthole. Yeah, he's got a stinky butthole. That was an ad read. That was an ad read. Was that Dollar Shave Club?

I think they pulled all their ads almost immediately. It was Dollar Shave Club. We love you guys. They canceled the rest of the concert. No, we got paid money for, or rather, I made money for saying that. Right. If you break it down, whatever amount of sense I made for saying the brown eye of Sauron. Right, yeah.

That's a thing I do. Probably like two bucks. Yeah. No, my... Ben has an adding machine in front of him or something. My grandma started bragging to people about my podcast, like a point of pride, like, oh, my grandson, he's got a podcast. People say it's good.

You're like Ixnay on the Agbrae. Well, she was like, you have to give me an episode that I can listen to. And A, I think she thought I was going to hand her a 45 that she could play. But B, I was like, what episode won't have something that my grandmother will be terrified or confused by? Not this one? No.

Some Spielberg episode, maybe? I think she listened to Broadcast News, maybe. She also keeps complaining that she doesn't have any good photos of me. I'm sorry. I said, I'm on a TV show. That's true. Maybe she doesn't want you in a moth. I'm sorry. I said, I'm on a TV show. That's true. But maybe she doesn't want you in a moth outfit. Well, tough titties then.

Tough titties. And on that note, thank you all for listening. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for being here, Chris. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Antoinne Goodall for our social media, Leigh Montgomery for our theme song, Joe Bow Thanks to Andrew Goodo for our social media. Lane Montgomery for our theme song.

Joe Bowen, Pat Rounds for our artwork. Go to blankiesatrad.com for some real nerdy shit. And as always, Night X. Night X, right. Yeah, coming soon.