Blank Check with Griffin & David - Maestro with Marie Bardi-Salinas

Episode Date: December 17, 2023

The music! The makeup! The MAESTRO! We’re diving into Bradley Cooper’s Leonard Bernstein biopic, the result of his post-A STAR IS BORN Blank Check, and we’re getting personal, emotional, and pretty ridiculous. Who does Griffin’s Bernstein impression sound like (because it certainly doesn’t sound like Bernstein)? What is Ben’s familial connection to the Maestro? Will Marie ever forgive Griffin for inviting Bobby Wagner on a date to visit Bradley Cooper’s Philly cheesesteak truck instead of her? Will David ever forgive Griffin for comparing the Maestro to Will Smith? This episode is sponsored by: ExpressVPN (ExpressVPN.com/check) Bombas (bombas.com/check CODE: CHECK) Theme music by Alex Barron Music selection "We Three Kings" by Amy Irving, Goolis, Aaron Is Your Friend from Slow Xmas 3. Check out the Slow Xmas 2023 holiday music compilation now on Spotify, Apple Music, Bandcamp or wherever you get music! Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

🎵 All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack If podcast doesn't sing in you, then nothing sings in you. And if nothing sings in you, then you can't make music. Something she told me. Right off the bat, one, great job. Thank you. Two. It's all in the nose.

Underrated. The most fun voice to do this year is Old Man Lenny from Maestro. I disagree. What's the most fun voice to do this year? It's Julianne Moore in May, December. That's also fun. There's some good voices in the mix. Imagine the skit that Billy Crystal would do with those two voices. Oh my God, I'm salivating.

Maybe Kimmel can just like tag him in for 10 minutes. Like they can do like a wrestling ring and Billy's on the sidelines. And then Kimmel's like, hey, you want in? Kimmel just needs to start cutting himself into the movies. Yeah. Yeah, do it. Do the old fat. Just rip him off.

It's fine. Okay. Great. Obviously, that's a big line from the movie. So great pick. He could be the first great American podcaster. Who left? Who abandoned Snoopy in the podcast studio? I mean, that's the best

line. Who abandoned Snoopy in the vestibule? Who abandoned Snoopy in the podcast studio? It's his day. I podcast too much. What can I say? But I'm reigning it in. I'm reigning it in. That's what I wanted you to do. That's a good one. What if we started with Leonard podcast?

Could do that. Could do REM. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Could do that's a good what if we started with leonard podcast could do that could do rem oh oh could do that it's in the movie and his license plate reads maestro in that yes what a fucking movie let's go to the club do you want me i'm gonna grind up on you here's we'll talk about it and it's not even something i actually want to talk about that much lenny in the club no just the amount of like fucking discourse on the nose when the first teaser and the photos came out definitely don't want to right yeah okay yeah we're the same very briefly right but then you watch this movie and you're like nose is kind of important to the performance. If, when he talks like this, should Denzel Washington present best actor this year,

bucking tradition, so that just in case Bradley wins, he could say, buy a nose. And if someone beats Bradley, he can still say, buy a nose.

Then you would say, because of the nose, Killian Murphy and Oppenheimer. I so badly wanted Julianne Moore to win that year for far from heaven yes that when denzel said the by a nose thing which everyone else took is like a fun joke between former co-stars i was like he's admitting that julianne came very close that is

denzel admitting that she came close and that makes me feel printed on the card my mom was like what the fuck are you talking they don't give him the stats. What if they did, though? I, Denzel, decree that only by a nose Nicole Kidman wins Best Actress. So who will be presenting? Let's see. Although I feel like they have been abandoning that format. Last year, didn't they do team-ups where it was... Fuck that.

Let's say they do classic. Okay. Then it would be Michelle Yeoh presenting Best Actor. Because last year it was uh uh whatchamacallit it was chastain and halle berry together oh right because they had to get around they couldn't get well right right and they just shook it all up yes right that's why they did that it would be brendan frazier best actress michelle yo best actor uh keiho kwan and jimmy lee curtis you know might be That might be nice

Yes Doing all the categories But who knows I hope Vernon Fraser Gets on stage And just tells everyone To shut up He doesn't actually

Get on stage She's just somehow On stage Behind a desk Just bellowing Shut up He had the girth Um

He's amazing In Flower Moon I feel like people Don't talk about him In it because He comes in so late That people don't talk about him in it because he comes in so late that people didn't really want to spoil

no there was also two weeks of everyone being dumb about this David you're already forgetting no no no I don't know because I left Twitter I don't even know what the dumb things are anymore there was two weeks of everyone being dumb about this performance to the point where Marie's making a face like think pieces were written and Scorsese had to

respond they made Scorsese had to respond. They made Scorsese respond, and he was like, he's great in the movie. He is great in the movie. Very big performer. He had this quote where he said, I saw him, he had the voice, he had the girth. Hell yeah. Which is one of the greatest lines. Introduce our podcast.

This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. And David. I can't really do it. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. I'm David. I can't really do it. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. This is Blank Check. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their

careers and have given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects. I feel like I'm losing it the more I do it. It's a little too, like, streetwise. Who am I going into now? There's someone else I'm... I don't know know i'm becoming someone else and i can't identify there's another guy who i'm doing now i have no idea griff directors who are dubbed maestros early on in their career and they're giving a series of blank checks am i doing am i doing uh shepep Gordon from Supermatch? Now, no, wait. Who are you doing? I can't tell.

I'm doing someone else. You're almost like Michael Lerner or something. Anyway. No, Michael Lerner. Bot and Fink feeling. Yeah, he's got Michael Lerner's more up there. I feel like Bradley's Lenny is a little more... There's a little more... There's a sparkle to it. There's a sparkle to it.

No, but I'm still doing... There's a sparkle to it. I think I'm doing Shep Gordon. Okay. Look, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and have given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear

and sometimes they bounce babies. Sometimes they're on Netflix. Sometimes they're on Netflix. And we'll never know. This is our second episode devoted to the films of Bradley Cooper. Yes. A pod is cast?

Yeah. Let's just call it that. I think that's what it was called. I was listening to the episode in the shower last night. Wow. Wow. I won't go into too deep detail there. But you guys said a lot of interesting things.

Yeah. I also listen to pods in the shower. I do too. Yeah. Cool. Not ours. Benny? No, sometimes ours. Oh. I also listen to pods in the shower. I do too. Yeah. Cool. Not ours. Benny? No, sometimes ours.

Oh, I've got a shower radio. I'm a big fan of listening to pods and or music in the shower. Yeah. I was listening to our gold member commentary this morning in the shower.

I'll admit it. I can't believe you still listen. I will almost always listen to our special feed up special features. Oh, you don't listen to main feed anymore? Sometimes. with the uh main ones i will listen if it's like we recorded

a while ago which often is the case because i'm like i don't even remember what we said if it was something like boy in the hair and i'm like i fucking did that eight minutes ago i'm not listening back no i used to listen all the time just for quality control like i i just want to know what i said comes out the other end. Right. And then once the pandemic hit, it was like, this is... You gave up. Yeah.

This goes into a box and I drop it to the bottom of the sea. Our special features episodes are, in my opinion, our most fun episodes are silliest. I'm not just saying this to get you to subscribe. And so it's always... It is the season. I have a good time listening to those. No better gift than to gift someone else a page. What did we say on our Star is Born episode?

Any hot takes that were right? I believe you start with talking about how this is kind of an unusual choice to cover a debut film. But how recently you had been trying to, you know, put more current releases in the lineup because Ben said they were better for ratings. They would do very well. It was a thing we used to do more often strategically. Now, I think we kind of hate having to do... We always have this, like, glut at the end of the year,

which may change, but the last couple years there's been glut. Right. There's also a pressure with, that comes accompanied with a lack of perspective

that we usually have the benefit of operating from and just, like, we're just... We're cowards. We're cowards. You're saying, you're right,

we haven't, the discourse hasn't settled, our own feelings haven't settled sometimes. Sometimes you guys have just seen it like days before this new movie sure and like you know it's tough to but i think it's gotten to this place where we used to strategically say are there a couple times a year where there's a movie one of us is excited for or there's something that feels like it overlaps with some bid on the show or whatever and it's an excuse to put something on main feed even if it's a director we're not covering.

Bradley Cooper, that was an example of let's look at the calendars. Is there anything that feels like we could bump it up to a feed? But it also felt like this feels like a guy announcing himself as an auteur. And in my opinion, we called it. And it was framed that way. And it was a huge hit and a big Oscar player in all of this. We called it and it was framed that way and it was a huge hit and a big oscar player and all of this uh we called it and i even some people kind of viewed it as scant and we're like we're really elevating bradley cooper to the level of they're going to talk about him every time a movie comes

out he directs a new film and then i've seen a lot of those people be shut the fuck up after watching maestro which whether or not you like this movie, and I think this movie rules, I think this is basically a masterpiece. I don't think anyone can watch this and deny, like, okay, he is a serious filmmaker. I'm sure some people will, but I agree with you. There are choices.

There are choices. Yeah. And there's, like, just a level of artistry, craft, thought, feeling in this movie that is, like like this guy is a serious filmmaker. I think this movie fucking rules. Marie Barty, Marie Barty, our associate producer joining us on mic. We saw this movie together. We did.

And I feel like we were pumping our fists like once every two minutes. Yes. pumping our fists like once every two minutes yes um so i just want to say one of the first things that you mention um which you mentioned last week and last week's episode on boy in the heron is that you wanted to get your salt burn commemorative cup yes you were worried that we didn't get to the theater in enough time for you to go to concessions and get yourself does that have jacob al comment in it or something? That's a separate, there's also at certain theaters, I think the Alamo, there is a while supplies last

small clawfoot bathtub drinking container. I don't, I'm not shitting you. Are you serious? I'm serious. There is a big bathtub in the lobby of Alamo in downtown Brooklyn. Well, they have that to take pictures with. Yes. But also across the Alamo chain nationwide, there was a while supplies last.

You get a commemorative. Look. You can drink your spirits out of a little salt burr. Cummy bathtub. Correct. I'm not shitting you. To be clear, in the film, Barry Keegan drinks Jacob Elordi's cummy bath water. It's one of the many transgressive moments in emerald fennel's salt burn the much

smaller angelica chain of independent theaters had their own promotion with a salt burn souvenir cup that looked more like the cup you'd get the tie-in cup that burger king would give you what if we just went back to look i know you love tie-in merch yeah by the way i saw salt burn this week it fucking blows i know people hate when I just like Throw Stray haymakers to do a drive-by And refuse to unpack it That movie sucks

I mean, it's not a successful film The thing is, I went into it I'm not a huge fan of her first film And I went into it with pretty low expectations And the first hour of it We could just do two minutes on Salt Burn I was like, I'm kind of having fun to my surprise. I agree 100%.

I was like, everyone's being too hard on this movie. I don't think it's great. I don't think it's super intelligent. But she is a very stylish, entertaining film. And it's literally about when I went to British University. I didn't go to Oxford, but still. It's set at a British University in the mid-2000s. I'm like, I kind of—

You used to always come at a bathtub. There's a lot of overlap. 100%. I love to fuck graves. And then 80 more... I still haven't seen this movie. 80 more minutes of the movie happen. Yeah.

And the extent to which I was out by the end of it. And it ends... Well, you know what? I won't spoil it anymore. Yeah. I won't actually say what happens at the end. But I should be on board with the ending, is what I'm saying.

I was relatively into the first hour of the movie, and then I would say every minute past that point, I liked it 10% less until I was deep in the negative. I think that movie is about nothing. I like Promising Young Woman, I think, more than either of you two do, even though I think it is a deeply flawed film. I think there's some power in it for a

first film and then watching this i was like i gave her too much credit on the first one i mean this movie's like i think she you know plays with fire and it it makes you think about stuff and it's it's invigorating or what you know but like i don't know who else does that but makes good movies hot take lena dunham sure i mean i mean, I agree. Make more movies, Lena. Yeah. Come bathtub, what were we talking about? Oh, let's carry them all again. Speaking of Maestro. Oh, sure.

Would you agree she's good in Saltburn? Yeah, she is. She actually kind of freaks it in Saltburn for 10 minutes. Everyone's kind of good in Saltburn. I think one person is really bad in Saltburn. We'll talk about it all. Anyway. Anyone else, I'm basically fine. Back to the Angelica.

Yes. Saltburn Promotional Cup. So you're underground in the Angelica Theater on Houston Street. We are sitting in like the second row, which is a good place to be at Angelica. The further back you're going at the Angelica, the more trouble you're getting. There's no rake. No. Every person who goes to the Angelica is 105 years old.

You have to sit close. The theater, the screens are small there. But yes, it was kind of a game time decision. Yeah. We were like, fuck, should we go see Maestro tonight? Made the plans like two hours before the movie started. Both were getting fucked a little bit by the trains. Got there just on time.

Yes. But Griffin was able to get his snacks. Yes. Did not get your salt burn cup. Because they were sold out. They were sold out. Which you did say on able to get his snacks. Yes. Did not get your salt burn cup. Because they were sold out. They were sold out,

which you did say on your Boy in the Heron episode. I did. But it was, despite it being Angelica, I thought it was

a very good screening. We had an applause break in the middle of the film when he finishes conducting the Mahler. And it seemed like the entire special effects team was at our screening. They kept on applauding the special effects credits.

So we were like, yeah, cool. Maybe a family member was there. It really felt like we were at a hometown screen. It was like a Tuesday 7.30 or something. But so early in its limited screen. It was like a Tuesday 730 or something. Sure. But so early in its limited release. Yeah. It was right after, like the Tuesday after its first weekend.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. And it was a corker. There was real energy in that place. And yeah, spontaneous applause break in a way that felt like, I don't know, like how often audiences applauded things in no no no no at a random just tuesday screening like you said that's pretty unusual there's the sort of like

opening night cap catches the hammer and game shit right right that was but then i like think about like when have i seen that kind of applause break and it's like after and i'm telling you i'm not going when i saw dream girls where people were just kind of like involuntarily like i i know she's not here but what i just saw on screen and it's so much wilder because you're like you're just watching bradley cooper conduct i know it's not even like he's singing but it's such a physical moment and the actual performance is so triumphant hearing the music and he did he did voice all the violins. He did. One at a time, he dubbed himself in over.

Yes. You can watch the real performance? Have you watched it? It's on YouTube. I actually, so I rewatched Maestro last night at home. I watched it this morning. And I watched it with my husband, who's a big Bernstein guy. Double Hummelberg.

Triple Hummelberg. Yeah, right. Were you hugging and kissing? I matched it with my husband, who's a big Bernstein guy. Double Hummelberg. Triple Hummelberg. Yeah, right. Were you hugging and kissing? We actually were because there are some really intense emotional moments. It's a very emotional film. It's very emotional. But he pulled up on his phone the real performance. It's a real performance in a church.

It's Marley's second. But how is it pronounced? Is it the Ellie Cathedral? The Eli Cathedral? It's E-L-Y. It's in England. It's a real performance in a church. It's Marley's second. But how is it pronounced? Is it the Ellie Cathedral? The Eli Cathedral? It's E-L-Y. It's in English. It's Eli. Eli, okay.

Don't fucking quote me on that. I'm always getting British pronunciation wrong. But he pulled up the actual performance on his phone and was scrubbing through it to match the parts

shown in the film. And while he's not mimicking to match the parts shown in the film. And while he's not mimicking beat for beat, the gestures, they're like very... Maybe it is Eli. It's very on target. In the movie, the way it plays out is a one-er, correct? So you're also watching him... I'm not sure.

There's a one-er at the end, which reveals Carrie at the end which reveals Carrie at the end of it the final piece of it I'm just remembering that it's an overwhelming moment and it's late in the film and it's emotionally pivotal

the case we made for covering Star is Born outside of it helps our ratings to cover new releases the thing we no longer explicitly chase was like this movie is being is landing with the sort of the feeling of here is a guy trying to build the kind of career that doesn't really exist anymore, right? Like these people we always cite, like Streisand, like Beatty, like Redford, like Eastwood, like Costner, like Gibson, these people who ascend to the A-listener, like now I make my own movies. Now I tell my own stories.

And outside of Redford, those people often would do those movies with themselves in the center. But it was sort of like, I'm leveraging my star power to express things that maybe don't seem overtly commercial and to try to bring, like,

a sort of seriousness into mainstream cinema. And Star is Born, for a movie I have complaints about, is, like, undeniably, for that movie to make, like,

close to $200 million, be a full cultural sensation, get all these Oscar nominations, it was just like, this is a movie for grown-ups. Like, this is a movie of, like, serious adult emotion. Grown-up romance. Yep. Yes. It's probably, it's one of the most recent films that, like, my wife watches all the time. Right.

You know what I mean? Like, that has entered, like, the classics rotation. I've seen that movie four times, which is a lot for me. I've seen that movie four times, which is a lot for me. Is there one of the versions of the AMC Nicole Kidman ad that has stars born in it? I don't know. I don't go to AMC. Well, you know what?

I'm a Regal Clown Club member, baby. The Clown Club? You just called yourself out. No, I'm drafting from, and I will shout them out, Fran Hoffner and Bobby Finger and various other friends of mine are in a group text called Regal Clown Club, where they arrange. Regal Clown Club. Well, I messed that part up. I am not in the group text. For sure. I do think about the AMC Nicole Kidman ad having its own kind of canon of like this move that ad and there are a couple versions

of them they've updated them a couple times have they yes because I feel like the last time I saw it Creed 3 is is it Creed 3 that's in it or Creed 1 is it okay they've updated a couple times and they're also longer and shorter cuts there's a 15 and a 30 right along with the 60 I feel like one of them has Star is Born in it but there's this canon that I always find really fascinating of them having to be like, we need to pick movies that aren't film history, that are within the last four years to make movie going still feel relevant. But they have another

one coming, you know. But they've said this for like 18 months. We're waiting. Billy Ray, a year ago, said they filmed this thing and it still hasn't been seen. But that's an entirely different script. No no it's going to be a brand new thing right we'll see they're like we hope it lives up to the expectation and i won't say anything else what if we just start sneaking into like amc projection booths and just

putting ben's thing we've seen amc movies and we've seen bc porches and what if we told you that next year the two will collide? Nicole's going to be wearing the buried jeans. She will, yes. But I can't say more. Sure. But there is this canon of they're trying to put movies on screen where it's like,

what are movies that are classy enough that Nicole Kidman would go see them, but also have to have been actual blockbuster hits and maybe critically respected and make it feel like the cinema is still alive. And I feel like it's like Star is Born and Spider-Verse and Creed are like the things they're pulling from where it's like this is kind of like old school. Wait, sorry. Can I just do some breaking news?

Yes, please. They're doing variety directors on directors. Sure. Okay. Okay. Bradley Cooper. Who is Bradley Cooper going to be talking to? I want to hear your guesses. Is it someone else who on directors. Sure. Okay. Okay. Bradley Cooper. Who is Bradley Cooper going to be talking to? I want to hear your guesses.

Is it someone else who's in the race or just? No. Okay. I'm going to say it is Todd Phillips. No. He did the DJ podcast with him, right? Yes. Well, they're best friends.

This is someone who I did not know they had a prior relationship. Jason Bateman. No. Did not know they had a prior relationship. Didn't know they had a prior relationship. But they did? I. Did not know they had a prior relationship. Didn't know they had a prior relationship, but they did? I don't know. Spike Lee.

Oh, they do? Well, there's this big viral clip that you may or may not have seen where they were on, I guess, so 2018, the year of Star is Born. Spike Lee is also nominated for Black Klansman. And they did the DJ podcast,

does like the big three-hour, all five nominees up on stage being asked the same questions. Right. And Bradley tells Spike, you know, I read for you once. I think it's probably for 25th hour or like, you know, early in Bradley's career. And Spike is like, what? And Bradley's like, yeah, you know, I did my thing. And you were like, oh, thanks.

Nice to meet you. You got me out of there fast. And Spike like starts laughing. Oh, my God. And it's a really sweet moment that's cool so maybe yeah maybe they became pals on the 2018

I love that I mean I feel like there is a they have a similar sense of scale and melodrama that melodrama they have a similar like they are both

unafraid to make choices yes to have their voice be in the movie if that makes sense like their directorial voice and Spike placed himself in his films a lot he did to make choices, to have their voice be in the movie, if that makes sense, like their directorial voice.

And Spike placed himself in his film's life. He did? Early on. And Bradley Cooper is the Spike Lee of the Philadelphia Eagles? Correct. That is very true. And should we just keep making comparisons between the two and see if we get in trouble?

Never, I'm joking. Just to close the loop on this, Billy Ray announces September 2022 that he had written the script for the sequel. Okay. Well, things take time in Hollywood. About a year and a half ago. Then what's his name?

Adam Aron, the head of AMC, in May of 2023 said the script was written. They hadn't decided whether or not they were going to film it yet. It would debut either in late 23 or 24. I want to say the full Nicole Kidman AMC ad canon is... It's not long. Force Awakens, Jurassic World, Wonder Woman, La La Land, Creed,

Spider-Verse, Star is Born. Those are the seven movies across all the ads. Assassin's Creed, though, too. Assassin's Creed. Assassin's Creed, and then all the video games well yeah Porches right right right

it's an interesting grouping no I know what you're talking about in terms of right like prestige but big budget you know million you know hundred million dollar grocers

there are four franchise films but of the four I would say Jurassic World is the only one that was not critically beloved it got good reviews people forget

and then yeah La La Land Creed Star Is Born feel like, look, see, we still do it sometimes. And so he did it. He did it. With A Star Is Born. Another reason we did that episode is I saw that movie at TIFF and was like, oh my God, I'm in love with this thing.

We have to do an episode. And then you saw the movie and you were like, I didn't like it that much. Which is, I'm sorry, Griffin. You're so rarely wrong i look i will re-watch it you haven't re-watched it since i maybe re-watched it that year there are things i think are phenomenal gotta re-watch it i'm assuming i gotta take another look at it now since a star is born i'll say i'd be more interested in re-watching it Now that I've watched The Stray Sandstar is Born as well

Right Spoiler alert Since The Star is Born Bradley had a small part In The Mule which he honestly Fucking crushes it in Isn't the same year as Star is Born That's a favorite to old Clint

But it's kind of They have that really great scene in the diner Of course But also he probably shot a favor to old Clint. But it's kind of, they have that really great scene in the diner. Of course. I really like. But also, he probably shot a whole thing, too. Knowing Clint. No probably required for that one. He's great in the mule.

Great in the mule. Yeah. And hell, you know, mule made money. Yeah. And he basically, post-Star is Born says. He drove that mule to 100 mil. What? Post-Star is Born, he kind of announces, I think I'm basically only going to act in my own projects now but then that turns out not to be true uh why do you tell me licorice pizza all

right we get look excuse me all right in 2019 he was in the most financially successful film ever made avengers endgame voicing rocket the raccoon right which can we just for half a second here talk about how smartly he wove between the traffic cones on that where it's like so many of our best actors are caught in these big franchises that take them away from. Right. They don't get to do anything else. He gets to play one of the most beloved characters. Everyone knows it's him. He does a great job. He does a great job. but what does that take him a week yeah and he'll do the press tour and everyone's like you got a character that we get to ask you about in interviews and go oh you're marvel character tell us this he's not fucking tied up forever uh still collecting that plus a big old wheel of cheese shows up in his house every year it's also very clear he loves rocket when he does interviews he cares cares about that character. And the performance is great. It shows. He's really good in those movies.

He also produced Joker. That's another wheel of cheese. Well, he's got his shingle with Todd Phillips. Did Phillips end up getting an EP credit on this? No. No. It was produced by Martin Scorsese. That's why I was waiting to see all three Oscar-nominated

directors, Spielberg, Scorsese, and Phillips In the end credits But Phillips did not produce this one, right? Did produce Star is Born Or at least executive produced Or something, I don't know They had their shingle together Phillips did produce Star is Born

I couldn't remember if it was produced or executive produced It was one of those In 2021 He performs in two movies that he did not direct Paul Thomas Anderson's Licorice Pizza And Guillermo del Toro's Nightmare Alley Oh I forgot about Nightmare Alley I think he's miscast in Nightmare Alley

He's a little miscast But he is fabulous in Licorice Pizza He's phenomenal I think I gave him best supporting actor that year You did. And, you know, he was unfairly summed up an Oscar, in my opinion. Or at least a nom. Yes.

Shout out in the nom. I think he's... I don't know what to make of Nightmare Alley. I kind of want to rewatch it. I need to rewatch it. He makes sense as like a Tyrone Power-y guy. On paper. Right.

And I think like he's going for it in that movie and it's not like an embarrassing performance in the slightest. The ending basically works for me because the ending of that movie is awesome. I think that's one of his best moments as an actor. But I do kind of, yeah, remember feeling like Bradley was good.

He was fine. Like, yeah, didn't, you know. Look, I found myself a little confused by some of his choices. But he, I think it was his actors on actors that year which he did with mahershala sure who he worked with a couple times at least he worked with i know on place beyond the pines and maybe something else i'm forgetting um but he was saying post star is born i go great like my stardom is a thing i want to leverage for my movies I want to direct.

I'm not going to farm myself out to other films in the same way. And then he said, Licorice Pizza was both, A, COVID lockup. I'm antsy as hell. That movie comes together. Small role. Right. And it's just like, and it's PTA. I can't turn this down.

Right. Right? And then he said. Also, he had worked with John Peters to some extent. Absolutely. Had an angle on the guy. No, absolutely. absolutely but he was like this is the kind of thing i would do is like a small part for a great director just to be on their set for a couple days and watch how they work and he was like nightmare alley was the type of thing i was like i'm not doing this anymore unless i'm directing it but dicaprio was the first choice was was close to Was close to doing it. Yep. Bows out.

Probably makes more sense for it. I think DiCaprio would have been better in that. And I like Bradley better as an actor overall. I don't know how. I think both of them are too old. I suppose so. Possibly, but then who's the younger guy who fits into that? Who's the fucking Tyrone Power?

Who's the guy? I'm thinking. Who's the guy, Marie? Who's got the riz? Jacob Elordi. I don't fucking know i'm gonna say this now i get it i get it i get it too but i am now putting a ban and i'm not talking about our podcast i'm talking about film twitter yeah no suggesting of jacob alorti for

everything everyone's already doing that up on the hills he's become hollywood yes we get it it's become too easy we're about to have a fucking Jude Law experience with this guy. He's a good actor. He's charming. He's talented. He's handsome. And I think he's making good choices. That's fine. But now it's going to be like, could he play Superman and Batman?

Don't do it. It's just going to. That's what it's going to be. Yeah. All right. Speaking of Batman, Pattinson. Yeah. Oh, you know what?

Pattinson would have been really good. Pattinson. He's a good actor. Pattinson. I'm here for anything he does right now. No, Pattinson would have been really good. Pattinson's a good actor. I'm here for anything he does right now. No, but Bobby would have been really good right now. I am the heron. As he put it,

as Bradley Cooper put it, in this Mahershala one-on-one, he was like, they went straight from DiCaprio to me. It's an honor. And it's Del Toro. He's a serious director. it's his follow-up to a best picture winner yes but he also was like i have to admit like i don't want to sound this

petty about it but like i just accepted five years ago that i was never going to be seen as on that tier of those guys where it was just like the top tier that the best oscar-winning filmmakers want to work with is pitt clooney dic DiCaprio. And he was just like, I was trying to will myself to that tier and I just accepted they never want me. There's a ceiling

to what I get cast in. I want to make my own movies. And he was like, I just honestly, the fact that he offered it to me, I had to do it. Almost out of like spite. Not that he played

the role spitefully. But I thought that was so telling that he was like for for a guy who's that big of a star to talk that openly about sort of his feeling of where he ranks and also for a guy who's of a similar age he's been famous for far less time than those guys he has he's been known for a long time acted for a while famous or a list or whatever been a star For ten years By the time Bradley

Starts working Let alone It's another ten years Before Bradley Becomes an A-lister Even once Bradley Becomes an A-lister In the early 2010s

And in his mind He's like I never hit that tier Like when Bradley's In the David O. Russell movies I'm kind of watching them Being like I'm sorry I won't be sold

On Bradley Cooper As an A-list actor Like I had that Chip on my shoulder about him. I had a bit of it, too. And I think he's pretty fantastic in Silver to Lioness playbook. But I also think my takeaway was, huh, David O. Russell got a really good performance of Bradley Cooper. Which, in retrospect, is rude and absurd to give that much credit to David O. Russell. But that was also his moment of being the whisperer.

or Russell, but that was also his moment of being the whisperer. The movie that turned me around on him was American Sniper, which is like a movie I didn't even like that much, but I was like, I think he kind of is amazing in this. I agree. He's kind of undeniable in it. And you're also just like, this guy is like going in weird directions.

In 2022, he fulfilled a lifelong dream, artistically. He voiced Rocket Raccoon in a Taika Waititi Thor movie. Yes. Love and Thunder. The dream. It's another wheel of cheese. Yeah. In 2023, he appeared in three of the best movies of the year. Maestro, Guardians of the

Galaxy Vol. 3. Just go with me. And Dungeons and Dragons Honor Among Thieves. Oh, he's so good about Dungeons and Dragons. Never forget! Good movie. But that happens because he's still fucking texting buddies with John Francis Daly.

Back from Kitchen Confidential. Correct. And I guess, I think it was something like they shot that whole scene with a stand-in. If you read the interview,

I... Or maybe another actor. It sounds like it was Dexter Fletcher. Uh, sure. That's what I've surmised. You did some sort of sleuthing about this.

Yeah, I feel like we did this together. I remember being a part of this conversation. Talking about the guy from the Star Wars movie? fletcher uh sure that's what i've that was your you did some sort of like sleuthing yeah i feel like we did this together i remember being a part of this conversation about the guy from the star wars movies yeah they got dexter jetster originally got him in there and then he got canceled his uh his many hands were a little too busy oh i'm sorry i'm joking dexter fletcher would never touch anyone i guess neither would dexter jester sorry neither would dexter jester um and then right they put him in later he's wonderful in that movie in this sort of like incredibly like bradley cooper kind of open heart performance like for one scene but that's like right as michelle rodriguez he's like look i'll jump

in and do a little thing i'll do favors for friends i'll do rocket but he's like if i'm starring it's my shit he's lined up a couple new projects now that are all sort of like bradley is eyeing to direct and star right right there's the the will arnett one there's the uh uh whatchamacallit the christian bale and and he just signed on for some cia thriller didn't they let's see yeah cooper christian bale but that new story was brad considering directing Best of Enemies Isn't that the title of a Gore Vidal Documentary The Buckley Vidal

Who's the conservative Isn't that also What was that awful movie about Oh the Taraji P. Henson Yeah Taraji P. Henson's Sam Rockwell That was called The Best of Enemies So maybe they want to change the name Of course,

no one remembers that happened. I don't remember that happened. There's been a maestro project floating around for a long time. Yes. You mentioned this on the Star is Born episode where you say that it was going to be a Cary Fukunaga Jake Gyllenhaal collaboration.

No, that's a rival project. There are two Bernstein projects. No, that's a rival project. There are two Bernstein projects. Like 10 years ago, if not more, it came out as one of the things Spielberg was considering.

Right. Yes. Because now he's finally slowed down, but it always used to be Spielberg would put six movies on his plate per year and then

say which one's ready to go. I'll jump into it. And it was originally announced that he was considering doing a maestro film, this basic version of the movie, although I think Bradley turned to its own thing, with Zachary Quinto.

That was the original story. Okay. That that's what he was considering. Well, so Scorsese was then, okay, so in 2010, no, Quinto, wait, okay. Quinto and Spielberg were... Quinto was going to play George Gershwin for Spielberg.

I am so sorry. Yes. I knew... Right, because that was a 2010... God, when Spielberg, remember this, was going to remake Harvey? Yes. Thank God he did not do that.

He was going to do it with Hanks? Yes. That would have been so bad. And he was going to do George Gershwin right off of Star Trek with Quinto. Yes. Quinto was hot stuff. Yes. That would have been so bad. And he was going to do George Gershwin right off of Star Trek with Quinto. Yes. Quinto was hot stuff. Yes.

And, you know, George Gershwin, if people don't know, died very young. Like, it's a sort of like, you know, it's an interesting story for a movie to do one day. I'm an idiot and I can bind the two people in my head and my memory. Because the thing was, Scorsese was going to make this movie. And he is, of course, a producer on it. Yes. Then Scorsese drops out because The Irishman happens. Did Scorsese ever have an actor?

I don't know. Okay. I don't know. I can probably try and find out. But then Spielberg... Sorry, Wikipedia is not being helpful on this anyway. Like, Spielberg definitely at some point wanted to make this movie. And steps aside for Cooper.

I think Cooper is a person he initially approached to star. Correct. And then I think, I guess, realized, like, you are very invested in this in every way. The story I heard Cooper tell is that Cooper's, like, obsessed with conductors and says that when he was a child,

he used to play conductor in his bedroom and originally wanted to be a conductor. What a little cutie pie. I like what a dork Bradley Cooper is. And when he talks about projects, he's like, you're not going to believe me, but this thing that this movie's about is my number one interest in the world. And you're always like, oh, come on,

get off it. And then he goes so hard on it that you're like, you're actually a little too into this. But he knows that Spielberg has this maestro project. He wants to play Leonard Bernstein. He talks about how badly he wants to play this role. He screens Star is Born for Spielberg. He shows him Spielberg.

This is some months before the movie comes out or even plays festivals to try to show Spielberg, look, here's a little acting sample reel to show you. And he says, at the shallow scene, which is the big scene of the movie, obviously, Spielberg gets up from his chair, and he's like, oh my god, he fucking hates the movie, and he's going to the

bathroom during my big scene. And Spielberg walks over to him in the screening room and leads into his ear and says, you're directing this fucking movie. As Bradley tells it, which is a cool-ass story. That Spielberg watching Star is Born was like, you know what, you're not starring in my movie you're making it. Hands it over to him.

David? Yes? Ugh. What's the matter? Ugh. Did you just eat something? No it just tells me to say that here in the copy. Look it's that time of the year again. That one time of year where your sponsors write ugh in the copy. Classic

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No, you can't. No. Maybe you want to watch Christmas specials. Sure. As much as the copy started out by saying we all hate that. Taskmaster? Taskmaster? Well, Taskmaster, certainly you've been trying to get me to watch for a very long time.

It's all on UK Netflix. But I love the the rankin bass specials okay are they not available well they're spread out sometimes this one's missing from here and some of those over here and whatever i'm trying to maybe be a little more of a completist and fill some of the gaps the ones i haven't watched before that's why i like using express vpn it's so simple to do, David. I just fire up the ExpressVPN app on my computer or TV or phone. Anything. Tablet.

It works on everything. It's easy. I'm sorry. That was from earlier in the copy. It truly is a one-button process. You go boop. You drop down from the menu. You go, where do I want to be?

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of a marriage like i don't just want to do a traditional biopic blah blah blah he i guess has more of an angle spielberg basically drops my story to do west side story right like in your metaphor like he had the six things on his plate this was one of them eventually he picks the state funny that they're like do I want to make the movie about Bernstein or do I want to make a movie of Bernstein's work? Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. I said right a bunch of times. Right.

There is, yes, there is a competing project, however, Murray, which was Cary Fukunaga, I believe, was the final director attached to it, which was Jake Gyllenhaal, who is Jewish. Who is?

Unlike Bradley Cooper. And it was called The American. Mm-hmm. And it basically lost out on, like, the rights to Leonard Bernstein, if that makes sense. They picked this Spielberg project. Well, it seems like the Bernstein kids

were very involved in this project. Yes. They were. They've been at like every single premiere of it. They stand up. They start conducting like their dad. My brother at one point sent me a text of that, of them doing that, being like, the strike needs to end.

We need Bradley Cooper. We can't just have these guys doing this. Can I say, by the way, I deeply respect, because, you know, I'm not going to call out other people, but there were some people who were playing kind of dirty pool during the strike of being like,

well, I'm doing this promotional appearance in my capacity as a producer, not as an actor. They were not breaking the rules, but maybe the spirit of the strike was a little... Right, and Bradley Cooper is someone who's in several guilds.

He's PGA, WGA, DGA, and SAG. He certainly could have promoted this movie. And he was like, look, two of my four guilds are on strike. I'm not promoting it. It premiered at Venice. He wasn't there. He did go to the New York Film Festival premiere to sit in the audience and do the sound check. Of course. That's sweet. That's cool.

Which is like, because I felt so bad. Yeah, I felt terrible. But like, I'm also, I respect the hell out of him that he like went to his New York Film Festival premiere. He easily could have gotten up and been like, I'm only here as a director. My solidarity with with the other unions. And he was like, no, I'm a big star. It makes a bigger statement if I don't fucking do this. And now he has a cheesesteak truck and you can go get a cheesesteak from him in the West.

Bobby Wagner and I are making plans to go this way. Why don't you invite me? I had lunch. Wait, when has Bobby replaced me as your Philadelphia friend? Wow. I'm genuinely insulting. I'll loop you in on the plans. What's the Philly cheesesteak thing?

So I go to get lunch with Fran Hoffner, who I just invoked. Well, well, well. Well, well, well. Since when has Fran Hoffner replaced me as your lover? And she shows up to the lunch and she says, Maestro's on, you know, on 6th Avenue. On 3rd Street. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what are you talking about, Fran?

Because Fran loves to do a bit. Especially a bit about Maestro. Right. There's no movie theater on 6th Street. Where could it be playing? And she shows me a picture. She's like, I had to go see Maestro. She shows me a picture of Bradley working the line in a food truck that's making Philly cheesesteaks for, you know, paying customers.

All the money goes to charity, I believe. What's the name of the pizza place, Marie? Is it like Angela's Pizza South Philly? But I think it was Tony and Coop's or something. It's called Tony and Coop's. It's called Tony and Coop's. But it's specifically a Bradley Cooper cheesesteak venture. And I said to Fran, like is he and he was

making him right i was like is he taking orders is he like chatting with people he's like no on the fucking he's in the back he's chopping steak yeah so venture unpack that what are you what does that mean what you're saying is he making because the strike was dragging on so long maybe he was just like you know what i'll just fucking do this. Like, if I can't, like, do anything else. Like, he's becoming a restaurateur. He's just trying to think of ways to get himself out there as promotional stints that would not

be considered breaking the strike. But this is the other, this is like, there's that part of it. There's that part of it, which now the strike is over and he can do whatever he wants. There's some question of some savviness of, like, you need ways to keep your name and your face in the public that associates you with the movie

that's out at the same time without directly promoting the other movie so what's another venture you can do but this dork part of Bradley Cooper 15 years ago

he does the fucking kitchen confidential TV show for Fox he plays Anthony Bourdain and he's like well I'm actually going to learn how to cook

very seriously and he does he becomes a really really good cook and then he's like, well, I'm actually going to learn how to cook very seriously. And he does. He becomes a really, really good cook. And then he's like, I need to find another movie because I'm so good at cooking and that show got canceled

that I need another place to put this. Put me on any chef script you got. So he was in this shitty cook movie to like show off that he could do all this shit.

And now he's just straight up. There's like video you can watch where it's like, oh, he is just working the line in this food truck. I want that cheesesteak. Let's go get it. We're trying to track down where it is.

And Marie's in the village. You will be invited. I know where it is. And Ben, you will be invited. I'm in the village. I know where it is. It's been moving around a little bit. So I was working from home that day and my humblebrag husband was out in the city.

And once I saw that Bradley. Was he texting you hugs and kisses? Yes. Like, love you, baby. yes like love you baby and i love you too okay because if he wasn't i was gonna have to don't worry take a massage but i like i saw the bradley cooper news and then i fucking called him yeah he thought there was an emergency yeah and he's like what's wrong he's like racing out of a meeting being like what is it and i'm like are you still in the city he's like no i just got back to brooklyn, what is it? And I'm like, are you still in the city? He's like, no, I just got back to Brooklyn.

What? What do you need? And I'm like, oh, God damn it. Bradley Cooper has a cheesesteak truck in the West Village. I just had lunch with him half an hour ago. He's like, you called me because you wanted me to go stop by Bradley Cooper's cheesesteak truck? Amanda. Yes.

Amanda brought it up on the big picture. And Bobby was like, how the fuck did you not tell me this? I'm in New York. Why didn't you tell me this? So then I texted Bobby immediately and was like, we have to did you not tell me this? I'm in New York. Why didn't you tell me this? So then I texted Bobby immediately and was like, we have to go because I heard him say it. But now I'll make it all.

Chopped liver? I don't know. I might have to leave this podcast episode early. No, now listen, Maestro, the thing I will say about the competing project to get us right back on track is that it's a script by Michael Mitnick, who wrote two great movies,

The Giver and The Current War. Yikes. Hey, pause. Hey, excuse me. He listens to this podcast. Excuse me, Michael. Excuse me. He was also a staff writer on vinyl,

so his track record is perfect. Impeccable. And in my experience, a very nice guy. That's awesome. I'm sure he's a nice guy. And he's a playwright and stuff like that. He might listen. Oh, God, Dan's got all of this out.

No, he's a playwright. He's one of the many playwrights who, you know, started doing Hollywood stuff. He's also, he's also, he has a lot of musical experience. He adapted, apparently,

the, you know, fucking tome of a 2001 biography called Leonard Bernstein. So my guess is that movie is maybe more of your classic yes um and you know that project is supposedly kind of still in development i guess right yeah uh there's a couple hiccups there um but because of i think spielberg you know is a big part of it. Mm-hmm.

Winning over the Bernstein family, making West Side Story, things like that. He gets the rights to the music, essentially. Yes. But do we know the script that Scorsese and Spielberg were working off of? Because basically... No idea. Because this movie's credited to Bradley Cooper and Josh Singer. Well, no.

Josh Singer's his guy. Josh Singer, he had written the script. Oh, he had. Yes. And then when Bradley took over the script. Oh, he had. Yes. And then when Bradley took over the project, they rewrote it together. Obviously, Josh Singer wrote

the post for Spielberg. Yes. With Liz Hanna, he wrote the first man screenplay. Spotlight won an Oscar. He wrote Spotlight, but first man is like,

especially, it's like, that's him taking another, you know, head-sized biography of Neil Armstrong and turning it

into something else. Yes. So, then he, Bradley, puts on a bunch of makeup. He gets in the... Let's say the other thing that happens. This film is set up at Paramount. And then whatever it was, 18 months ago,

they announced Paramount is selling this to Netflix. And you and I text each other irate. Like, what the fuck is Paramount doing? This was also coming in a run of Paramount is selling this to Netflix and you and I text each other irate. Like, what the fuck is Paramount doing? Right. This was also coming in a run of Paramount, like,

fire sale, fire selling off a bunch of projects where it's like, why are they giving up Beverly Hills Cop to Netflix? Right. And it felt off of

Star is Born, the rare sort of crossover serious movie where you're like, if you got Bradley Cooper, why wouldn't you bet on this guy? Right.

How expensive could this movie be? I will say, now having seen Maestro, and I think this is to the credit of Maestro as a movie, I can understand

why Paramount was terrified at the notion of doing this. Too weird. Because he wanted to do a very abstract, expressionistic version of this story.

Um, I, I, I give Netflix all the credit in the world for letting him make this movie this way. Sure. And I'm just like very happy that it exists.

Me too. And feels like it was supported. Yeah, it was also kind of a big deal for Netflix and Spielberg to be in business together because Spielberg had been very openly critical of them. And there's much to criticize with Netflix, but yes, they obviously do get behind some weird auteur-y movies every year.

Yeah, and it feels like this is perhaps one of the last huge... You say that. We'll see. We say it every year, though. I know. And we say it in my sort of film critic community of like,

right, is this the end of Netflix's kind of like Oscar strategy? It just felt like when Coda won Best Picture, they went like, you know what? This is no longer our priority. Forget it. We're not knocking on that door anymore. But I do think it's just going to be like

a couple at least movies a year that they're still positioning for awards that are like this. I don't know. There are two big movies this year, obviously this and May, December. But they have Nia, they have Rustin. May, December, they're acquired.

And I think that might be more what they do going forward. Maybe. We'll see. Who knows? The film is made. It stars Bradley Cooper and Carey Mulligan. That's really it, right? I mean, everyone else in this is supporting to minor.

Sarah Silverman. Two-hander. Mile Hawk. Matt Bomer. Yeah. Michael Urie. Gideon Glick. I mean, it's got great actors. Absolutely. Gideon Glick I mean it's got great

Absolutely Gideon Glick Yeah Another Philadelphia person Griffin I love Gideon Glick He's invited to The cheesesteak run

Along with Marie and Ben and David My best friends Bobby Marie Ben David

A mob of people Swamped Bradley Cooper's Cheesesteak truck Yesterday Griffin Newman said Everyone everyone kept inviting themselves. Josh Hamilton in a role that I just found out was supposed to be played by Jeremy Strong. Oh, really?

I cannot imagine how hard he would have gone. I mean, that was just like shameless exposition. But I mean, like, that's okay. So Jeremy Strong would have said, I can't do my scenes until I've gone through four years of journalism. Right.

Which is probably why Jeremy Strong is like, I have to become the world's best classical music reporter. Yeah. So call me back. Yeah.

You can wait five years for me, right? I'm chasing... Fuck, I was going to do a joke about the guy who I already forgot his name. Which guy? You know, the most famous guy. Who's the most famous guy now? Jesus Christ? Yeah about the guy. I already forgot his name. Which guy? You know, the most famous guy.

Who's the most famous guy now? Jesus Christ? Yeah, that guy. Taylor Swift? No, no, in the classical music world. Come on. Mozart in the Jungle is based on him. Oh, Mozart.

Damn it, Griffin. Tomas Ade? What's his name? Betamal? Betamal? Gustavo Dudamel. Gustavo Dudamel I was close So this film

That was worth it If I could just kick us off with my observation on the first thing in this movie You got Bradley Cooper And I'm seeing, by the way, I'm seeing it at the New York Film Festival We're all bubbling with anticipation Some of us had to just go to the Angelic on a Tuesday Sit there with the lowly VFX crew Bubbling with anticipation. Some of us had to just go to the Angelic on a Tuesday. Sit there with the lowly VFX crew.

Who weren't even invited to the New York Film Festival. Seemingly. Is Donald Trump about to show up? It seems like you're about to get into that impression. That dog, Bradley Cooper. Didn't even invite his VFX crew. They're saying terrible things about him. They say no CGI. No CGI. i look at the

credits 40 people cgi invisible effects they're calling it i can't even i don't even want to do your donald trump has like a twinge of regis phil because i don't want to do it the two have the same spirit of new york like him funny and I find actually doing the voice depressing. So the first scene is Bradley Cooper. Like a dog. In all his makeup. Yes. Right?

Old man Cooper, ruminating. Marie turns to me and goes, this makeup is kind of incredible. The neck. It truly might be the best old age makeup I've ever. The neck is so good. Kazuhiro. It's Kazuhiro, the guy. The guy.

Sort of like the guy you call. He was a Rick Baker protege who got very disillusioned with the entertainment industry and left it behind and started making... Ben, if you want to look this up, his medium became

giant busts of real figures. So he would make like a nine-foot-tall bust of Abraham Lincoln that was entirely photorealistic. They'd look very cool. You can look them up.

They're huge. But you walk around them and was like, I'm done. And Gary Cooper had worked with him when he signs on. I don't know.

No, no, I'm sorry. Gary Oldman. I meant to say Gary Oldman. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Gary Cooper, sadly never got to work with Kazoo Hero. He didn't get to do him

when he was playing Lou Gehrig or something. I don't know. Gary Oldman, when he signs on for Darkest Hour, never got to work with Casualty Hero. He didn't get to do him when he was playing Lou Gehrig or something? I don't know. Gary Oldman, when he signs on for Darkest Hour, reaches out to Casualty Hero. And he's like, I'm retired. I'm done. I left it.

And he's like, I will not do this movie if you can't do the makeup. And he does it, and he wins the Oscar, and now he's back, and he did Bombshell. He got an Oscar for Bombshell as well as for Darkest Hour. And he's the guy you call. Yes. But it's maestro talking, right? like you said he's the guy you call yes but it's it's maestro talking right hey you know he's ruminating i forget exactly what he's saying but it's along

the lines of you know talking about his wife you know he misses her and all that sometimes i am julia the housekeeper season right talking about my kids have never seen her marie's doing the voice really well you're doing doing it really well. I do a really good Carrie Mulligan. Just you fucking wait. And then you're leaning into this. And then what do we cut to, Griffin? The other side of the conversation, a camera crew. Yeah.

Lights. Yeah. It's a performance. Yes. The whole movie is right there. That's like, that is the movie he's making, where it's like, this is real, but also like he always is like, you know, talking to the audience, right? Like like how do you separate these two private and a public self right and they get mixed up yes i saw a review that criticized this performance which i think is an incredible

performance i think it's an excellent performance but their argument was he has so perfectly studied the voice the mannerisms the energy you can tell it's like a perfect approximation of the public Leonard Bernstein. But it feels so studied and so control. You want some life to come in. I'm like, that's the whole point. That's the idea. That's the idea. There are the brief glimpses where you're seeing the guard down and they are so brief

because this is a guy. where you're seeing the guard down and they are so brief because this is a guy. A lot of this movie is about like having the type of raw talent and ability. And charisma. And charisma

that you basically become like a presidential candidate, right? The way people hover around you and they're like, here's the potential of what you can accomplish and here's how you need to conduct your life.

No pun intended. If you need to conduct your life no pun intended if you want to have the impact you could possibly have and here's a guy who's just like so you know those stress toys that are like the weird this sort of orangey rubber guys and you squeeze them and the ears and the eyes pop out right like that's another thing i think this movie is about of like this guy who is just like seemingly at all times so in control and is squeezing himself so tightly that it just like starts to spurt out at moments but will not let himself ever really relieve tension um but yes he's talking this crew marie and i turn to each other we're like best old age makeup we've ever

seen it's not just that it looks great, that it looks realistic, that it looks like the real Leonard Bernstein, but it's also like it's moving correctly. Yeah, it's fleshy. Right. It's like actually fleshy. Like often when like old age makeups have like waddles under the neck, you're like, right, but it's like rigid. And when they talk, it falls apart. Let's just talk about the nose thing for like five seconds. Marie and I both sang.

For five seconds. Okay. I don't give a shit. Okay, great. Let's move on. Cool. Yeah. His kids are, the Bernstein family is okay with it, so.

I just don't care. I hate this shit. Can I talk about, can I say the five second thing? David now has his head on the desk. Just next time you want to write an article about the Leonard Bernstein nose, wait for the fucking movie, guys. Oh, I agree. And then you can write about it.

I think everything that people find distracting about is not distracting within the context of the movie itself. I do think, like, Bradley has a big chance to begin with he's has to age multiple like through multiple eras he's going to be caked under makeup yeah for large portions of the movie anyway he maybe didn't need to put it on for the youngest age but i also it did not bump against me at all while actually watching when it's in motion it doesn't it doesn't really matter and there's also less of the film at that age,

the youngest age, than you would think. Yes. So it goes from this interview to you found it, Ben. Pretty cool, huh? That's so cool.

Isn't that fucking awesome? It's really fucking awesome. Is it 3D printed? No, it's sculpted. Now he makes it. Yeah. Whoa. This guy's like the best Holy shit. human portrait's sculpted. Now he makes it. Yeah. Whoa. This guy's like the best

Holy shit. human portraiture sculptor. But he also, the other big one he did was Looper. Yes. Which was like a makeup job that people thought was impossible. Like how you can't make these two guys look similar.

Ooh, wow. Sorry, just quickly interrupt. Netflix just published audience viewing hours for nearly every show and movie on its service during the first six months of the year. Ooh, interesting. Anything fun? No.

No. Okay. So. What's cool is they're so big. So we're cutting to. Yeah, they're huge. They are huge. Academy ratio, black and white.

Young Lenny, right? Yes. But we're not cutting to like, he's six years old, and he's watching the Boston Pops. No. And he's like, Daddy, I want to be a conductor one day. And his dad's like, you shut up. You're going to do the family business,

Jewish laundry or whatever it is that we do. It's hair. Hair laundry. No, it's like... You'll live in the Lower East Side forever, even though we're from Boston. Hello? Conductor is sick. You're taking the main stage tonight.

It's the call he's been waiting for for his entire life. Of course, a real thing that happened. It's the moment that makes his career and it's the thing the movie talks about. Would the career have happened inevitably no matter what? Was that a lucky break? Probably. But he was so young. Of course. He was this first American-born conductor ever to compose...

Seizes the moment. ...to conduct the ortho-harmonic. Yes. But he gets this call. It's the call he's been waiting for. He stands up triumphantly. He opens the curtains to his bedroom. The light pours into the room,

and we see the buttocks of a naked man lying face down on the bed. And Maria and I turn to each other, and we're like, fucking... He's Santa! And he gives the butt a little... He plays the drums on the bed. And Maria and I turned to each other and we're like, fucking cinema! And he gives the butt a little bum-ba-da-bum. He plays the drums on the butt. He gives them a little Matthew McConaughey, you know, a little bongo.

I had a question about this scene. Just one shot. Because when we watched it in the theater, I remember being really struck by how high contrast the blacks were. Yeah. Like, you could barely see that there was another person in the bed until the end of the sequence. That is exactly what I like about it.

You're kind of surprised at the reveal. But when I watched it at home. On a DVD screen. On a DVD screener, it did not look as good. So I don't know how it's going to look under Netflix compression. Well, you need the HD, though. You got to get that 4K Netflix. Yeah, maybe you get the deep black.

But obviously, look, Bradley Cooper is going to be the first one to tell you, like, I prefer you see this in a big theater with really loud sound. Like, you know, he loves a, but he runs out of the butt playing. Well, first of all, it's just, it's a trick of cinematic language that I always love, which is you stay on the same shot and you realize the shot is something different than what you think it is. Right. Right?

Like, there's no cut here. There's no trickery. It's just, as we're saying, through contrast and through shadows, the light is revealing that this scene is something different than what you think it is. Because we know going into this movie, part of it is going to be Leonard Bernstein, a gay man who was married to a woman for a very long time, and what was the nature of their relationship? Was there real love there?

You know? But a lot of these movies, if this movie's 20 years before, maybe it kind of tries to kind of, you know, nod to that, but not care about it too much. Like, you know, there's a lot of ways to do this story. But also, once again, there's a modern version of this movie that shows him like kissing a boy for the first time at summer camp and it's like i don't know i'm conflicted about it the fact that this

is opening shut up laundry only right the laundry only i like i just keep the super stereotypical thing where it's like wait they weren't even in laundry it's like no he's jewish they were they all did laundry that's what they did back then i just think like you're opening on him getting the call yes open the movie basically starts on the day his career really takes off we have not watched him fall in love with music as a young man but you're also in love with men as a young musician right here is a guy who is comfortably having relationships with other men to some degree to some degree this is part of his life from the moment we're introduced to him and then, you have this amazing transition where he basically runs out of bed straight into… Carnegie Hall.

Yes. Yes. Practice, practice, practice. That's the thing. And my favorite Mitch Hedberg joke, I want to move next to Carnegie Hall so that when you ask how to get to my house, I just say practice, practice, practice, then turn left. Good joke. Yes. So, and, practice, then turn left. Good job. Yes. So, and then it's then...

Wait, can I just ask a question, like a detail question, which I don't know if you know the answer. I might not have the answer. Did he live in one of the studios above Carnegie Hall? I tried to look it up. I have no idea. Because I thought that's what they looked like with those windows. I believe that's the idea.

Yes. Oh, interesting. I just don't know if he did. Read the thousand page Leonard Bernstein autobiography. I'm sure it's in there. Sure. But that's the idea yes i just don't know if he did read the thousand page leonard bernstein autobiography biography i'm sure it's in there but that's the impression i got especially because he was an assistant conductor that's interesting i didn't take it literally that's the thing there are scenes here in this movie where people walk from one place to another right with like no transition the whole motors thing right yes which i love Which I love. I love. But this,

I did kind of almost take as like he may have literally lived. Right. And then it's like him that night going like, look, I haven't done any rehearsal.

Like, you know, like this sort of walking and talking. And then he gets right on stage. The camera, you know, the camera's going crazy

for all of this basically. And then they basically cut to the end of night radio broadcast sign-off. Young Libet Bernstein, defying his father's laundry wishes, has conducted the neo-filharmonic. And people are like Arsenio Wolf

whistling. He's done. He's made it. It's one of these like, in a single night, he became a star. A star is born, you could say. All because Bruno Voluno volta got you know whatever diarrhea it was like someone got sick and someone got snowed in like he was the backup wasn't available the main guy got sick yeah um he his first boyfriend who i believe is

whose butt is being played uh-huh i think it's matt bomer i believe that's my spot was impeccable tush right was the hottest clarinetist around David Oppenheim a real guy I kind of think Matt Bomer remains the most handsome actor alive well Matt Bomer looks like a children's drawing of a handsome actor and I'm not saying that negatively

he looks like an 80s Ken doll right he just like his eyes his chin I saw him once in a fucking audition waiting room i think i've said this before were you auditioning for the same part as you were going up for white collar but it like it made me angry to see him yeah he was like is the seat open and i was like don't be nice fuck you bomber yeah i need i need to think he's one of the only out gay yes actors in hollywood who can play play kind of like a romantic lead

or an action star or whatever. He was twice up for Superman, and in both times it is largely reported that he didn't get it because he was out. And was out early. I think that's 100% true, and he's had a good career, but I do often feel like, right,

he gets roles like this where it's like, yes, you know you should you should oh we're making a really important like gay film like you should be in this you know matt do you remember that it was announced some years ago that iris hax was going to make a montgomery cliff movie with him fuck i mean that's just that's a layup i want that so badly they can still do it they can still do it come on ira but that that feels lazy fucking money in the bank. Ira's not lazy.

Don't say that. I'm going to charge him next time I see him. Be like, you lazy motherfucker. Make your Monty Cliff movie. He'll be like, the Cliff Estate is suing me. And I'm like, that's no excuse. I have no idea why. Bomer's so good, though. Yeah, he's really good.

It's a small role. Like I said, almost everyone in this movie is a small role. But he's going to be like the first guy to kind of get rejected by Lenny as Lenny has to sort of ascend the ladder. He's got a couple heartbreaking scenes where he has to convey

a tremendous amount in very small moments. He does a great job. So pretty quickly he meets Felicia Montenegro. Yes. Montalegre. Not Felicia Montalegre.

Felicia Montalegre Cone. So, right. He's at a party. Yes. And he's fucking putting on a show. He, right, he's at a party. Yes. And he's fucking... He's putting on a show. He's got a great... He has a great introduction where we see...

Handmade it up on the piano. Adolph and Betty are singing their show tunes. And she's, you know... Carey Mulligan gets introduced to them by... His sister is Sarah Silverman. Sarah Silverman. Who introduces her. Yeah.

And he goes in, what about the piano player? Yeah. And then he waves. There's like a picture of I guess it was the Hollywood Reporter maybe Director's Roundtable

where there was like a joke that was like it looks like Bradley Cooper like is photoshopped in because of his posture where he's just like peeking out from the back. Maybe make that a meme. Maybe make little Lenny peeking out from behind other people. Just the same thing.

A photoshop challenge. But then you have like a really hot flirtation outside the window where they're on a smoke break, right? Where they're repeating to each other. They're testing each other about the small talk.

Yeah, right. Well, the first it's like you have to recite back to me what I told you about myself right right yeah which is like uh a fun way of getting that um information backstory out for the audience while also showing a dynamic rather than just hearing them go and where did you grow up? This movie does a great job short-cutting the boring biopic material. And yet, I know a lot of people who saw it and were like, I just thought it was like real Oscar bait, boring biopic stuff. What the fuck are you talking about?

Well, it's my opinion. No, it's just, I don't know. I don't really, this movie does not work for some people. And I don't really get it either. I am fine with it not working for people, but saying this is boring Oscar bait the usual is just wrong. That is empirically wrong.

What did Lloyd Scammer Jackson think of this movie? I don't want to know. Yes, you do. No, I don't. You do. You've been thinking about it all day and night. I haven't. I think he said it was pretentious. He's big into saying things are pretentious this year. Not extraordinary. He just learned that word things are pretentious this year. Not extraordinary. He just learned that word.

Cooper and Mulligan are fine, though Leonard and Felicia are portrayed as egomaniacs. Okay. Sweeping theatrical act one, followed by constant dreariness and chatty chats about feelings with jarring scenes of loud music. Sorry that Maestro had jarringly loud music, lights. He's complaining about Maestro as jarringly loud music, Lights. He's complaining about Maestro as if it's Ozzfest.

Leonard Bernstein playing his rebellious movie at top volume for the kids. Final thing he says is a little bit of Tanglewood. He's not even offering that as a positive or negative, but maybe was he just like, not enough Tanglewood! I think he likes Tanglewood. He's like in the back, he he's like more tanglewood uh he grew up near tangle but then

they cut to the two of them lying on the floor of the bedroom yeah uh mid coital break is basically he's apologizing for his back his bad back yes there's this shot of like their legs perched together on the bed yes like a little steeple But they're lying on the floor next to it. And then they're in here. And they're back. He's so sorry. And Marie turns to me and goes, do you make this excuse all the time?

Yeah. Well, I mean. I have a bad back. You always seem to have ailments. I do. I'm wondering, you know, are you like, oh, I can't move, darling. I'm stuck here.

I also, yes, I affect that voice in the bedroom. Oh, darling, I can't move, darling. I'm stuck here. I also, yes, I affect that voice in the bedroom. Oh, darling, I can't. Yeah. Very? Yeah. So, I read it a little bit as, oh, he's like making an excuse for why he cannot maintain. Sure, sure.

Right? I'm not discrediting his back injury as a fellow, a man who suffers from a bad back. Wait, I thought he wasn't not having sex with her. I thought it was they had had sex and this is he hurt himself. And so they're laying on the bed on the floor. Griffin's saying maybe he couldn't, you know, last that long. I don't know.

That's innuendo, obviously, where, you know, you can read into that. You can read into it. I'm just I'm throwing out my read of the scene, which was, they were having sex and he could not maintain. Okay, well.

And that he was using the old back injury. Sound off in the comments. Sound off in the comments. He was trying to stuff it in soft, is what we're saying. You know, he was putting the sleeping bag

back in the case. It was a wet spaghetti kind of situation. This is, this is a question. Those are old Harris Whittles jokes, just to shout them out. An overarching question about Maestro. This is why I'm bringing this up.

At what point does she know? Well, I'm assuming she knows very early on, but I'm asking, is he a gay man married to a woman, or is he bisexual? This is why I'm bringing all of this up now, because I think, yes, I'm watching this movie. Is he a gay man married to a woman or is he bisexual? This is why I'm bringing all of this up now, because I think, yes, I'm watching most of the reporting on him has his friends have been like, no, he was he was a gay man. He was like fundamentally that's that was the situation. And he did love her. Yeah.

But but it was also like he probably of his own volition never would have married a woman if there were not cultural pressures on him, despite having real feeling for her and such. But I'm watching this film, once again, still being trained by the kinds of conventional Oscar bait biopics that people are wrongly accusing this movie of being where I'm like, okay, I'm watching the flirtation period. When is the scene where she catches him with another man? When is the scene where he comes out to her? Does it happen after they get married? Does it happen before they get married? That's part of the arrangement. Like, when does it happen?

And it's one of, I think, the most interesting narrative choices of this film is there's a scene that comes about an hour later where she catches him in the hallway kissing gideon glick yes and she's like not again right and you're like oh this whole time yeah there has the scene before then where she's like i know to please do carry for me well i have to like build up to it sorry take a lap around the room and you carry no there's the there are a couple there are a couple like hints yes Yes. There's when she tells, I forget Sarah Silverman's character's name.

Sarah Silverman's character's name, of course, we all know, is Shirley Bernstein. Sarah Silverman is trying to set her up with her other friend. She tells Shirley that she's going to Tanglewood. And Shirley's like, oh, my brother never told me that. She went, you're going to watch my brother perform? Right. And she's like, no, he invited me. And then you see Sarah Silverman kind of have the response of like.

She's like, look, my brother likes to tangle wood, but not with you. She doesn't say that. Well, but then she also tries to set him up with Dick Hart. Yes. No, Silverman's trying to set him up with someone else, then is surprised to hear that she's been spending time with Lenny. Carrie seems kind of hurt that Lenny wouldn't mention to his sister. And there's something in Sarah Silverman's face of like,

do I warn this poor girl? And then there's the scene where they go into the theater where she's doing the play. Yes. And they have their flirtation with the scene. Right. But she also sort of says something like... And then the kindly old man comes in. I like the kindly old man. Just shut the door on your way out. But she, a couple times in the movie, says

things like, I know exactly who you are. Right. Yes. There's a scene where they're walking. They also have the imagined version of the on the town pas de deux. This is the scene where Marie turns to me and just goes, give him the Oscar. I just said maestro. I just turned to whoever I was sitting next to

and I said maestro. Marie, just give him the Oscar. Give him the Oscar right now. They won't. They won't do it. Because they're jealous. They are. They're jealous. That's my take. They're jealous. It's exactly what Lenny says when he's talking to his daughter. When she's like, dad, are you gay? He's like, Dad, are you gay?

Your dad's a great actor. And he's like, no, they're all jealous of me. Right. Which they were. And he's like, your dad is category fraud. What he did with Training Day is unacceptable. He complains to Maya Honk about her father's Oscar history. They had equal screen time.

Obviously, Denzel was going to run and lead. The movie opens and closes with him I mean he's the protagonist in a traditional dramatic sense David Yes It's the season for giving Yep And I've said A thing I've said and thought is

Tis better to give than to receive Sure fine But if you're going to give Why not give more Great question I don't know you tell me well you can okay with bombas oh we love them i'll tell you what i mean by more yeah more comfort because their socks underwear t-shirts and slippers are made with such absurdly soft materials you want to keep a few for yourself of course i mean more in that sense

the product has extended value, right? But more good as well, because for every item you purchase, they donate another to someone who needs it. Which is great, especially in this time of year. A lot of people in need. Socks, underwear, t-shirts are the three most requested clothing items

in homeless shelters, and when you buy yours from Bombas, you're also donating essential items to those who need them. One purchased one donated as you said in these tough winter months it goes a long way it does and that's why i think bombas is good uh i also uh like their ready to go gift boxes which are filled with high quality basics your loved ones will enjoy all year long it's a very solid christmas present because you don't even need to wrap it comes in a nice box the packaging is nice now jj birch our researcher texted us recently red alert red alert all caps do you remember this of course i bought them new bomb has just dropped forky socks yes it comes in a pack of four it's forky mike wazowski it's a

dog from up carlin doug mike and sully and the fourth one I'm forgetting is Wally and Eve. That's right. My daughter has worn all of those. Well, okay. I'm making my way through the set. You don't have to. Your daughter doesn't need to big dog me in her sock project. Well, she doesn't like wearing socks, so I always have to put them on while she's watching TV.

Does she like it when Forky is on them? She likes it more. Okay. It's definitely a bonus. Now, here's the thing I want to say. I've been watching Shark Tank this season. Does she like it when Forky is on them? She likes it more. Okay. It's definitely a bonus, yes. Now, here's the thing I want to say. I've been watching Shark Tank this season, and I often throw in,

and they don't put it in their own copy, that Bombas is the most successful company in the history of Shark Tank, but I haven't checked those numbers in a while. I just was coasting off of them previously saying that. And this season, they've done an arc where they've been counting down the most successful companies in Shark Tank history with the updated numbers.

Every episode adding two companies. And I'm watching these. I'm gripping my armrest. I'm going, are they going to reveal that Bombas has slipped down to two to three? My friends, I'm happy to tell you that Bombas is still the number one most successful company in the history of Shark Tank. Still doing well. That's great. Go to bombas.com slash check and use code check

for 20 off your first purchase that's b-o-m-b-a-s.com slash check and use code check and check out bombas.com slash check go check number one most successful company in the history of shark tank yeah i think this scene where they're walking and she says i know exactly who you you know like but beyond all of this the movie is, you know. But you're not hearing the overt conversation of the arrangement that you later find out in the movie. There is very much a clear, like, I don't want you to be sloppy. Don't embarrass me. Don't do this in front of me. And that this has been set up for a while this way.

But Cooper's pitch on this movie is fundamentally like, I want to foreground their connection. Yes. Cooper's pitch on this movie is fundamentally like, I want to foreground their connection. Yes. As friends, sort of as artistic partners, sort of as lovers or, you know, however, like, their romantic relationship functioned.

And, you know, you know, chart what a toll the marriage took on her. Like, you know, in terms of being married to this genius one who's already a celebrity and it's like sort of lost in you know yeah all of that and she's an artist and performer in her own right and she basically has to give up has to go for career have a bunch of kids you know but also be later in the movie the first lady of classical music like people like the idea that she's a singer and actress as sort of like a footnote on to like look at this household they have. 100%.

But it doesn't leave her time to actually express herself. And then like explore like once they were basically separated, like what that looked like. And once she had died, like how much he missed her and how much like. Well, look. Sort of like there was a gaping hole in his life that he wouldn't have even maybe known would be there. It's the great Mulaney bit that is very interesting in conjunction with this movie i do think about this bit a lot where i'm going to paraphrase it but it's something like his father said to him you know leonard bernstein sometimes he was gay and sometimes he was married to a woman and a lot of his best music was made when he was married to the woman and millennia's like what the fuck was my

father trying to impart to me and also what a weird way to describe the setup but it is kind of what the arc of this movie is about where you're like he was a gay man he was married to a woman to be clear millennia also frames that that was his dad's sex talk he was like when he turned 12 he was like you know he was one of the great composers of the 20th century but sometimes he'd be gay but according to a biography right when he was holding that back he kind of would do his best right and holding that back is the whole thing right like i i think what's interesting about this movie in this dynamic is like when he when he has this sort of breakdown of like i can't fight this anymore i need to live my truth i need to be myself right i gotta get clicked he does kind of fall apart there is something about their relationship together that is not solely of

convenience or appearances you know because now the movie doesn't make any of this this is the thing i think that does frustrate some people this movie it doesn't make any of this clear in terms of like when did he do what when and like when was he most successful when was he composing when was instead we have like you know him ruminating to josh hamilton like you know for a big fucking big shot like me i actually haven't produced enough like there's stuff like that but like leonard bernstein's most like fertile creative period is definitely the 50s and 60s yeah which they which is when they're pretty quickly yes yeah and then yes in the 70s he does like mass like you guys were referencing and dubbock and stuff like that but like he's more becoming the grand old man of classical music at that point

and that's what you're talking about the kind of like when he's sort of separated from full you know like and from felicia right and he seems to be like spiraling out of control sort of separated from Felicia. Right, and he seems to be spiraling out of control. Sort of. And isn't producing as much, maybe. Also, there's the scene when he brings her to Tanglewood and he introduces her to Matt Bomer. Right? Yeah.

Where Matt Bomer plays this moment beautifully. Here's Leonard Bernstein introducing his girlfriend to his boyfriend. Right boyfriend right right and matt bomer is just sort of like why with the i'm gonna marry her yes right you know like this is it right and and the way i read the scene it feels like he and matt bomer are still semi recently still presently involved to some degree right like he's reacting this like a ton of bricks of like what the fuck are you saying to me what is this statement you're making publicly now in front of me and then one of the next times you see matt bomer it's he's married he has a kid and lenny is joking to the baby i slept with both of your parents which is a great a big great line

but they have this walk where it's almost like Lenny has hurt him and then gone to him and said, by the way, I recommend you do the same thing I do. Because we have this lunch scene at Tanglewood where they start to have this conversation around you could be the first great American conductor

but you have to make life choices. This is my favorite scene in the movie. And then they ask him about what was the job he lost. I can't remember. Rochester or something. Right. It's like, but like, it's this scene that is straight out of any biopic where the guy is like, listen, Lenny, you got to change your name.

It's too Jewish. Like, you're going to blow your shot at being the number one. And basically, like, Carey Mulligan just leans over to him and is like, can we get out of here? Like, this sucks. But also, what are they talking about? Like, it's a scene where they never put the finger on the thing.

But that's why I'm saying, I'm just like, to me, because what happens in that scene is, she's like, let's get out of here. And he's like, yeah, let's get out of here. And they run out of the scene and they magically are transported straight to the stage.

To on the town. And that's when on the town happens. And it's literally like Bradley Cooper to me saying to the audience like, I don't fucking care about that shit. No.

Go read a biography. If you want to learn the ins and outs of this guy's life like laid out in a timeline, I don't care. We're exiting

this boring biopic scene and we're entering a dream ballet of one of his great works. And that's how you're going to experience Leonard Bernstein. I am maestro. When suddenly...

I am maestro. When suddenly Bradley Asleny is in the little sailor outfit doing the dance himself, it feels like, well, yes, I mean, fan yourself off, hot under the collar. But it also feels like an expression of like the unspoken thing at this lunch conversation is the kind of spirit that he can only put forth in his work. Right. conversation is the kind of spirit that he can only put forth in his work, right? It's like she's watching a dream ballet performance of the show he's working on,

and suddenly he's part of the show, something he never would have done in real life. No, but it doesn't matter. But it's like... Magic. Right. And it's because of that pressure. Like, that scene feels like a scene with the Kennedy family strategizing, which of our children are we going to push for president next, right? Right.

It's these chessboard scenes of everyone saying to him, like, you don't understand, you have a responsibility. It's not just that you have the potential to be wildly successful, but like almost there is a pressure on you to be the great communicator of classical music for a new generation. You are the packaging through which this can continue to stay vibrant and exciting for people. You know how to work television as a medium. You have the right look. You have the right charisma. So wear that responsibility on your shoulders. And thus, you need to understand in an unspoken way that there are things you should not do in your life because they would jeopardize what you could do for all of us and then the next thing you see is him just like

funneling all his emotions into this version of himself on stage yes dancing to his own music a hot ass sailor yes what do you think you said give him the oscar apparently i uh it was very taken with the pacing of everything in the film up to this point. I think that sequence, which I brought up earlier, does show the fact that she knows about his homosexuality. Yes, 100%. But I think the question that I think is interesting in the movie is, I think she knows. The question is how much has outwardly been discussed between the two of them.

I think everything has been discussed. At what point? I don't think it matters. I agree, but it's what I like about the movie. I like watching it and not knowing in certain scenes. Yeah. What is the nature of their transparency? Correct me if I'm wrong here here but i think the woman that matt

bomer marries is the same woman that's at that original party sitting next to bradley cooper on the piano yes and uh we see another scene where uh where bradley and carrie are dancing intimately at a party and there are two men next to them dancing together and then they switch and then they start dancing with women and i just think that entire scene was very liberal very accepting there were you know you knew you you had out with him correct yes and there were uh choices that you had to make in order to you know maintain status within or to ascend i mean the whole ascend. He has this shot. It's like you're not just going to maintain. You're going to be this breakthrough

American conductor. And like you will change the course of music in our culture for the next couple decades. Yes, and like American understanding of classical music. And again, that's only somewhat interesting to this movie. Like this movie is mostly interested in Lenny and Felicia.

Yes. But can I like, it's not so much like there's no montage of like, and then he had his TV show and like Americans learned about classical music. Thanks to Leonard Bernstein. And then he did West side, you know, like none of that happened.

Can I throw out like a, a counterpoint that I weirdly thought about while watching this movie and I'll, I'll circle this. So'll make sense in a second. What if we said no? I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it. When the slap happens at the Oscars, okay? Okay, I don't know.

Follow me here. Follow me here. Follow me. We don't like it. Follow me. Follow me. Follow me. And a lot of people were like, how does this happen? How does the guy

lose it on the biggest night of his life? The biggest stage possible, right? There is a story Will Smith tells of when he was doing like Parents Just Don't Understand and was like a well-liked pop star that Quincy Jones called him in for a meeting and was like, I'm going to produce a

sitcom for you to star in. And Will Smith was like, I'm not an actor. And Quincy Jones was like, you don't understand. You have the thing. You have the charisma. You could be in a really important... He said, you're rizzed up. You're a rizz god.

You're rizzed up. No, but basically said to him, like, you have the potential to be a popular artist who could really transform the notion of African-Americans in this country. And you have a societal obligation to do this. And then like develops Fresh Prince and hands him the show. Right. Sure. And you think about the Oscar moment is like 30 years later of this guy who had all of this pressure on him. It's not like the pressure is only just from that first moment, but like everything he's doing in his career up until that moment is I have some sort of cultural responsibility to like prove

myself, to stretch myself. Right. You know, Griffin, up until you brought this up, I was not thinking of the many similarities between Leonard Bernstein and Will Smith. Thank you. But they're there. They're there. They're there. And I think there's a similar thing where you're just like, this guy is torn between what he wants to do and what he does enjoy doing, but also what he feels like he could do. Well, beyond that,

like after everything we've just talked about, there's the scene where now he's, it's the 50s, he has a lovely apartment. He's being interviewed on television with his wife

about like, Leonard Bernstein, what a success you are. Tell us all about it. Oh, I i love it when she's and he's working on a new thing with steve is on time this little young brat named steven but she's an adaptation of romeo and juliet they're also in the interview still asking her about like her acting career 100 and she's sort of making the joke of like well i barely have time to act with the children around the house like she's still thought of as an actor you're getting the sense that right her career is it's starting to slip away but and he talks about the difference between like being a celebrity and a public figure and

being a creator which is this like intensely private thing right because he's like channeling his deepest feeling into art in this will smith way he's in a position where he is like channeling his deepest feeling into art. In this Will Smith way, he's in a position where he is... I like it. You need to fucking stop. He's forced to represent an idea in addition to being a creative artist who wants to express his own things. I say this about Lenny Bernstein. I'm going to say it. And I know some people might criticize me for this.

Yeah. I think he was a more talented creative artist than Will Smith. I don't think anyone... I don't think... No, I think people are going to really come at me about that? I don't think anyone is. No, I think people are going to really come at me about that. I need to kick it around. Yeah. Like, I think his mass might be better than getting

jiggy with it. I'll just say it. But don't people not like mass? Mass was, like, controversial at the time. I think now it's pretty well regarded. Welcome to Miami. Well, actually, I have something I wanted to share regarding Mass, if I may. Yes, Ben. So I've mentioned him on the podcast before,

but my uncle was an active musician and composer in the late 70s and early 80s. Oh, this is not the relative who was one miracle away from sainthood. No, that guy's been dead for a long, long time. That guy is more like a grand, grand... Is this the uncle who gave us the bag of DVDs? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kenneth Hosley.

He performed, not in the original Kennedy premiere. Yes, because it opened the Kennedy Center. He did the European premiere. Oh, my goodness. Ben, that's so cool. What did he play? This was in 1973.

So he was a percussionist. Hell yeah. It was actually the Yale Symphony Orchestra. He was not a student. He was just hired by the conductor, John Marseri, I want to say. Sure. But yeah, so he was brought over to Vienna to perform, and he just shared some sort of insight into Bernstein.

Please share. So one night after several performances, that Bernstein was in the audience. and so my uncle was a very serious musician and i would say that bernstein's work was not really his taste he was more into like uh thrash metal yeah exactly no he was more into 12 tone music which is just like very very intense. Oh, so like Bernstein to him is, you know, that's middle of the road. That's mainstream.

Even though I think mass is kind of a challenging work. But yes. It's challenging in the sense that it's a clash of all of these different styles of music. Right. But anyway, he said this about the piece. It's the stupidest piece you could ever imagine. About mass. Correct. He's reading stupidest piece you could ever imagine. About mass. Correct.

He's reading it for filth, you're saying. He said that night Bernstein was in the audience holding his handkerchief ready to be moved. And indeed, towards the end, was moved to tears. Right. By his own music. By his own music. Could you imagine?

But that, like, when you see him conduct that is what he's like yeah he's this like hyper emotional conductor but also that's like the one hugging himself and yeah that's the one place he gets to sort of actually express things right right openly without non-strategically any other burns well so yeah i do have some more burns but uh ken was a percussionist. Like I said, he did, though, have a featured part playing vibes in one of the movements. Unfortunately, I've been trying to track down the performance.

I'm sorry, I cannot believe your uncle was a professional vibist. He was. I don't know if I would classify him as a professional vibist, but, you know, he definitely knows his way around vibes. Would you say that the vibes were immaculate? Absolutely. When Ben's uncle was involved, the vibes were immaculate. At some point, he had met Bernstein

and said he had a pot belly and a big old head. Hey. And he was a shrimp. So he was quite surprised to see that the six foot tall actor was portraying him right that bernstein was truly like just a little shorty right yeah he was a big belly big head shrimp he was he was like a little right lord of the rings gnome he was like five seven and like later in life right he's he was like a rink and bass bill it's kind of cool. But anyway, there is footage of this concert

out there somewhere. It's John Mossieri. You said that right? Yeah, that's the conductor. I said it wrong, but Mossieri. I don't know how you say it. But yeah, I think it's not been widely released. It was filmed, right?

It is only included in some Bernstein documentary that PBS did. Oh, which is available on YouTube because Bernstein documentary that PBS did. Oh, which is available on YouTube because I've watched it. Nice. But I'm going to try and track that down just because I think it would be a nice gift for Ken to relive this music that he had a big problem with. That is very cool. Vibes. So I was not not based on the trailer

of the film sure i was not expecting the movie to be um like i was expecting it to be in thirds yes it is more i don't know if the switch from black and white to color is exactly halfway through the film but it feels it felt earlier than i expected it it's earlier i would say but obviously they're in black and white essentially sort of up to the 50s or whatever right after that we're in color um and you know there's aspect ratio changes and all that um uh we should say uh um Libetique Just fucking I mean on all cylinders What's the term you use? Raining threes?

Is that how sports people talk? Absolutely Well done my friend Thank you from half court That's another one Matty Libetique Obviously he's Aronofsky's guy So

Yeah I mean he did Pine But he shot Star is Born. He did. Famously, there was Big Matty Weekend where Star is Born and Venom both released on the same day. Since then, it's like

he did Birds of Prey, The Prom, Don't Worry Darling, and The Whale. Like, it's not like these are tiny movies. And honestly, most of those movies

look pretty good. I Can't Speak to the Prom. Didn't see that one. I didn't either. But I was kind of like, I want Maddie. Don't worry, Darling looked good. It did. The Whale, I would say... Well, again, he's Darren's guy so he's gonna do The Whale. He also has had legal

trouble in that amount of time you're talking about. Maddie Libby Seek? Oh yeah, when they're drinking issues or something. He got drunk at a film festival and then he like punched a paramedic. Yes. That doesn't sound like... He was released without a finer charge. But I know there was an article a year or two ago about him. He said someone like, you know, gave him a Lucy essentially.

I think it's been a protracted legal battle to maintain his innocence. There is a New York Times... Right. He punched a paramedic, it seems. Yes. But you know what? He did a great job on Maestro. He did. Charge is dropped. It's so beautiful. Right. He punched a paramedic, it seems. Yes. But you know what? He did a great job on Maestro. He did.

Charges dropped. It's so beautiful. Yep. There are no crimes in art. It's a gorgeous movie. If you'll let me be frank. I mean, because like the whale, it's like you're shooting a fucking apartment. I mean, how much are you going to do?

We'll just think. What? That guy smelled great. That guy definitely smelled great. People are going to be be thrilled i'm just shitting on whale and salt burn and refusing to unpack any uh back to maestro yes uh there's some very interesting framing that uh happens throughout the movie i especially noticed it during uh the sequence that's like a party at their apartment when we first cut to

what I'm assuming is the early 70s. The Gideon Glick in the hallway part. There's a lot of brown and green. They got a pretty nice apartment, I would say. I mean, yeah. You don't think Lenny deserves a nice apartment on the park? That probably costs like

$2,000. You jealous? Oh yeah, right. I'll only let you have it for three nickels, all right? I'm not going below that. It's a full floor of burnished wood overlooking Central Park. Oh, it looks like the Dakota. Because they're watching the Thanksgiving parade. I think they lived in the Dakota.

But that party, there's a ton of obstructions. There are no clear shots of any action at the party. It's like we're sneaking into the party. Especially after the first section of the movie where you're a lot closer to this. He lived on the second floor of the Dakota. Wow. No, you're right, Marie.

From this section on, there is often something in the way between the frame and the characters. Yeah. He's creating distance, and he's creating obstructions and even there's the scene that we're jumping ahead but we're at the um their home in the hampton the hampton's home where she's kind of lightly scolding him for bringing gideon glick and he's

like well a daughter likes him i thought she'd want him here and she's like that's not why you brought him please admit why you brought him and the whole thing is happening from the other side of the fence outside their pool yeah and it's like the most open conversation you hear them have up until that point in the movie like what she keeps kind of hitting is the again don't embarrass me don't like pretend it's this when it's that she's not even framing it as the like you have a career to think about, don't jeopardize it. It's more like, I am in this. I have been in this for decades now.

Don't treat me like I don't exist. And if you're sloppy, it makes my life look like a lie. There's like a retroactive invalidation of what they've been putting forward. Obviously, I mean, this is less touched on the movie, but he was an alcoholic. He struggled with substance abuse. You see him, you know, at points, you know know kind of like drinking too much or using you know like it's all in this mix um you you have the scene where he tells his daughter played by maya hawk the gel they're jealous yeah that's what i mean that i looked he's wearing the harvard sweatshirt where

harvard is written in hebrew oh i, I was wondering what that said in Hebrew. It says Harvard. He went to Harvard. To school in Cambridge. He went to Harvard before Curtis, the institute in Philadelphia. I, as I have mentioned on this podcast before, I have a similar family situation to the Bernstein family. My father is gay. And he and my mother are divorced.

But they are still very close. But that scene where he has that conversation with Maya where she asks him point blank, are the rumors about you being gay true? Am I really good in this movie? And he says no, and she goes, oh, that's a relief. I literally had that conversation with my dad. It is an incredibly rough scene because he is like overselling this explanation.

And you're watching it and you're like, he don't protest too much. There's no way she's going to believe this, right? Like he's over, he's putting too much paprika on the sandwich right and then she like buys it and you see him have the relief of like okay i got another five years diffused right and then when she says honestly that's such a relief you see him crumble yeah where it's like i want her to think that i'm not gay but also the second she put any judgment on it makes me feel even more

guilt and shame. You said a thing, not to paraphrase you, Marie, but when we were talking after the movie about... She was like, this reminds me of Will Smith. Not to paraphrase you. He and Jada have an agreement,

right? It's more of a partnership. In 2022, a slap happened on the national stage. It's sad that Bernstein died before the red table was there for him to air things out. If they had been able to take it to the red table. He could have taken it to the red table. Because he certainly had

some entanglements. Murray, you said a thing about how... Aanglewood a thing this movie uh captures very well that you had not seen many other stories capture is like the the deep naughty conflict of uh wanting someone to live do you know what i'm gonna say yes i want to let you put in your own so uh often when you have these sort of late in life coming out narratives where um someone has been publicly closeted for a while and then they finally live their truth right it turns into a celebration of them finally reaching self-actualization you did did it. Yay. But what I personally experienced is like, yes, that is present, but there's a lot of collateral damage to the people in that person's orbit.

Of course. the film was very sensitive, especially to Felicia and to the daughter. And you know, it's, um, the daughter's name is Jamie, Jamie, the oldest daughter. Yes.

Uh, like, yeah, given that they're involved in some form, uh, the, the kids, like they're seeing this movie and approving of it.

They're saying like, yes, that's our dad. They clearly, yeah, they're saying like, that's our dad. Yeah. They clearly, yeah, they clearly are, you know, they went through real turmoil with him about this.

And about everything. Yeah. Again, it's like, it's not just that he's gay. It's like the intensity of his public-private split. His creative life, like the ways it took him away from them.

Well, it's all that interview scene you're talking about, the difference between being a celebrity and an artist, right? And these two things and him feeling the pressure that both need to exist.

And how do I not let one butt up against the other? I think it's beautifully threaded throughout the film. You also have in that conversation where he and Felicia meet each other for the first time,

where he says, you and I are so similar because we both hold many identities and contradictions because she is you know jewish but she's also latino but she is also white and you know her she was a costa rican chilean actress and you know her family had higher ambitions for her but she wants to be an actor and then his family you know a big i don't know if we've touched on his um during your favorite scene of the movie david when they're talking about you know how he has to make a choice be leonard burns she's like felicia right uh montalegre burns yes i mean there there is that aspect of like Jewish assimilation. Yes. And they tried to make him.

Yes. And he, you know, it's. So it's a duality. I mean, the film fucking opens with a quote. Yes. That's like, I forget what the exact quote is, but it's about holding two truths at the same time. That's what the whole movie is about. It's like I said, the first scene, him talking so openly and honestly,

and then you cut to it. He's being filmed. I just think, I just think Bradley Cooper is telling us for minute one, like, this is what my movie is about people. So, and maybe it's about himself in some way.

Like he's a celebrity. He's an artist. Like, you know, like this is, well, I've seen some complaints of like, well,

he's putting himself in the movie too much. I'm like, I like that. That's what I think. Put yourself in your movie. Fucking unbelievable performance. What are you talking about? about you're saying putting too much of his own of like how bradley feels about his relationship that's why it's good that's what makes him a serious filmmaker is that he is he is expressing things that he maybe could not express in any other format he has had serious

substance abuse problems in his life and it feels like he was putting a lot of that in Star is Born. He is not making movies that are one-to-one autobiographical, but it does feel like he is expressing things that he feels very deeply, outside of just his interests of classical music conductors and things like that.

He is like a real artist working through, like, internal struggles and themes and thoughts and all of this sort of stuff. And it's like all the stuff we were talking at the beginning, the part of him that doesn't want to be in movies unless he's directing them but also could not turn down Guillermo del Toro. Right. Is the part of him that's like he went from like the surprising rise of, oh, my God bradley cooper's an a-list star after 10 plus years of him being a guy who was around and when you get into that moment it's like very high stakes high pressure of like okay don't fuck this up you currently are on the cusp of being an a-lister

your next five or six moves maybe solidify whether you get to stay there or whether you were someone who had a moment you know and you do have to start to think about your career very strategically. And you have to think about your public persona very strategically. And even just like, how much am I playing the game of going on talk shows? When I'm on talk shows, what's the version of Bradley Cooper on talk shows? He chooses to make it mostly, I'm Philly bro, right? Which I'm not saying is an insincere part of him. I think it's a genuine, honest version of him.

But like him talking a lot about the Eagles, going on Howard Stern and being like, I would rather lose every Oscar for Maestro if the Phillies won the Super Bowl. The Eagles. I'm sorry. Please, Griffin. You'd probably be happy if the Phillies won. Yeah, but the Eagles are who we actually like. Marie should fucking put me on blast for that. But you know what I'm saying? Like, it all becomes, what is the public persona version of Bradley Cooper that I need to maintain to support artist Bradley Cooper? Will they let me keep making movies like Maestro if I am, like, having the good anecdotes on talk shows?

Right. Well, it also— If I have the good outfits when I'm caught out by paparazzi. And even, like, a more general way of looking at it. Yeah. He is a composer when he's directing. Yeah.

And he is a Sure. an actor slash conductor. But he's also like is being a celebrity Bradley Cooper's art form? I don't get the sense

that he's a guy who loves being famous. No, I think he seems to dislike it. He hates it. I think he views it as means to an end and there's a certain amount he needs to play the game

in order to do what he wants to do. And that's a lot of what this movie is about. I also think, getting back to the film itself, right? And what I find so interesting and kind of like unknowable about their relationship is as we said, it does seem like he has slept with Matt Bomer's later wife, right?

And the way he just sort of like immediately latches on to Felicia at this party and feels very attracted to her and recognizes something in her that they share. I think there is genuine chemistry and genuine attraction. Oh, yeah. But I also think he was like fundamentally a gay man as much as these things obviously exist on a spectrum, right? And you're like, I'm not here to the societal pressures were so extreme at that point in time, even ignoring the notion of him having a career in the public eye that you have to imagine a guy like that to some degree is internalizing. Well, my life would be a lot easier if I was interested in women. I should try this.

You know, not that, like, I'm doing this as a cover, right? I don't know. I feel like the movie doesn't really know. But I think this is what is interesting about it. And I think what is interesting about this movie, not even attempting to offer easy answers, because these things are kind of unknowable. for easy answers because these things are kind of unknowable. So,

we need to talk about her illness. After he talks to Maya Hawk, then there's the big fight where she basically is yelling at him like, you're going to be a lonely old queen. This all happens

with the backdrop of Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. He shows up late, hungover on Thanksgiving. He's sloppy on Thanksgiving. Who abandoned Snoopy in the vestibule? That's when she says he has hate in his heart. And that he's going to die a lonely old queen. Die a lonely old queen.

After that is... Giant Snoopy balloon goes by. It's a great... Whoever's idea this was, and Lord... I have no idea if this is some fact of the record like they had a big falling out of thanksgiving it's brilliant ask a question about both that and the maestro license plate slash usage of it's the end of the world as we know it uh-huh both of those moments are funny yes they both come after probably the most dramatically intense moments in the film.

Sure, the dark period. Is he... Is it good that he's adding levity there? In my opinion. I think it's also like weirdly dark, uncomfortable levity. Exactly. It's not like he's going for easy laughs to diffuse the tension. Blasting only the words Leonardonard bernstein and

it's the end of the world as we know it like because i'm just wondering is it too easy i don't think so because i think i think the rem license plate moment is also like this guy has now come all the way around to being obsessed with the public persona leonard bernstein that he's created like yeah he's become something of a right. He's dying out on what a meme he's become in a weird way, you know? Like, it says something about, like, how much he's enjoying the fact that he succeeded in

seeding himself as a name, as an idea. But he's also telling Josh Hamilton, like, I haven't done enough. Yeah. He's also a little bit, like, I've been too busy getting famous. I've been too busy being famous I've been too busy Being famous To actually maybe be As much of an artist

Creative enough Right And like You know It's hosted TV shows And events And all these things Which the movie

Barely touches on But obviously It was very important You know That he really like Brought classical music To the masses He understood

TV as a medium He was a communicator Right There are great clips Of him talking about The Beatles Right Yeah

He managed And obviously He was also politically very active Something else the movie isn't too interested in So was she He obviously mentored a young Lydia Tarr She is in the movie She's one of the students in the audience This is a Tarr prequel I said to Griffin

While we were there, that's Lydia Tarr He said, oh yeah, that's her But they had the dinner with the Black Panther Party. And Lydia Tarr. Right. And was it, who was it? Was Tom Wolfe the one who called them radical freak? Sure.

Yes, that sounds right. I mean, right. He's like, to me, a classic kind of lefty New Yorker celebrity, you know, in the 20th century. Anti-war, anti-Vietnam, anti-nuclear war the kind of guy richard nixon would like drink a quart of vodka he had an fbi file nixon refused to go to the premiere of mass at the kennedy center even though he was president because i just imagine nixon just roaring at a fireplace being like bernstein yeah fucking hater but then you basically from that big fight he screams into the pillow

which I'd argue is one of the only no that's not from the fight that's from oh that's from the diagnosis yes that's later I'm sorry

in between that those two things is the scene well there's two things there's the there's the scene of him announcing but you cut off

before he gets to it but where he walks out to his orchestra oh when he's wearing his little dandy outfit with the stripe and the little kerchief. Yes, and he's sort of like, I must be in conversation with all parts of myself.

He gives the speech that feels like he's coming out to his orchestra, but you don't hear. At least acknowledging it more directly. But there's also, you know, Felicia at lunch with her daughter and her sister. Sister-in-law. Sister-in-law.

You see her filming the TV show At this lunch she's dressed like Judge Judy I can't get over it Her friends are both competing to take her out for dinner Do we have you tonight? And she's just like everyone in my life is kind of babying me Because they feel so bad for me Then she goes out to dinner

And they're like you have a suda? It's so sad So what do you guys think of Carrie? She's unbelievable I think she is phenomenal Tough role It's so sad. Yes. Carrie, so what do you guys think of Carrie? She's unbelievable. We haven't talked about her in a while. I think she is phenomenal. She's unbelievable. Tough role.

It's always a tough role, the wife in a biopic. But I think she's... Obviously, he's giving her first billing. He's giving her... There's a lot for her to do. I do not love her normally. You said this was the most you've ever liked her. That is correct.

Her normal voice... What about suffragette? ...bothers me. I'm a big Carrie Mulligan fan. That is correct. Her normal voice bothers me. I'm a big Carrie Mulligan. Hello, Carrie. She's Sally Sparrow. She's Sally Sparrow. What is that? Do you know who that is? It's a character she played in Doctor Who.

Which was sort of her early role. She's so good in Bling. She was supposed to be the next companion, but then she got too famous to get that role. You don't like her in N Education? No, I actually really She got N Education

in that film. I don't like that movie. No, I don't like the movie either but she's good. Inside Llewyn Davis. I mean, I don't know. She just has like She rocks inside Llewyn Davis.

Sometimes she has like Gatsby? Mopey vibes that I cannot get. She's a mopey actress. She gets cast in a lot of mopey roles. She's so fucking mopey get. She has a mopey accent. She gets cast in a lot of mopey roles. She's so fucking mopey.

She's got a mopey face. I think after Drive and Shame, which she's good in both of those. I hate Shame, but continue. I hate Shame. The emotion or the movie? I live without Shame. I live without Shame.

I don't like that movie. I hate that movie. I think that movie's kind of stinky. It's a little stinky. But I think she's good in it. Great Gatsby inside Llewynis like mud bound like wildlife she which she rocks in like but these are all like sad well that's a lot of typecasts i know and she didn't quite have like naomi watts's career happen to her but there was this moment in the mid-2010s where you're like man after an education you

would have figured like carrie mulligan's gonna be a huge star and instead she's kind of stuck in like second gear she i mean she is such she has such sunshine in this role not to say that she is like you know just the a happy presence throughout the film because she's not she has a very complex emotional arc uh but she you you fall in love with her she's she just kind of uh she's radiant yes she's glowing throughout the film and you have this scene where they're like sort of needling her and she's like oh this is embarrassing right you feel like she doesn't want to talk about someone who a new boyfriend right and then the story ends up being that uh he he was asking about he in fact is is she thinks he's asking her out and she's asking he's asking about someone else

a man right yeah and then she sort of she's like graduated to like matronly at least in her mind like that's her her fear right right uh and then she has like the one, the first scene in the movie where she really kind of talks about their arrangement of like, it wasn't, I'm angry at myself for lying to myself that I thought this was enough. Right. Right? Basically, like, I knew what I was getting into and I thought that was enough of a marriage to make me happy. Right. And now I'm only angry at myself. Right. And now I'm only angry at myself.

It's really heartbreaking shit. And very soon after that, she gets diagnosed with cancer in a scene where, like, I look, my mother had cancer a couple of years ago and I had to go to a lot of these doctor appointments. Right. Frustrating. And there's the thing he is doing in this scene that I found myself doing because I was the person taking my mom to most of the appointments where it's like the doctors say these things to you very bluntly. Right. And the person who is. The helper. Well, the person who's being told about what's going on in their body, you just kind of go into a state of shock and silence. And the other person asks lots of questions.

Yeah. Where you're just like, well, okay, well, let's like focus brass tacks here. What about this? What about this? And you just kind of hold on this three shot of them. It is one of many

really devastating oners in the film. And he's clearly trying to be like, okay, let's focus, let's get this done and she's just kind of like, it takes a while

before both of them break down. The thing about this segment of the movie is when the movie is coming out and I'm hearing buzz about a lot of people like, you know, and then there's the whole biopic part.

This is being dismissed by some as like a sort of function of many a biopic, the tragic portion. It's 10 minutes of the movie. Yeah, I've also seen few films deal with a terminal illness this specifically. I fucking sobbed twice. I counted on rewatch. On rewatch, it's like four scenes. It's very simple. His father passed away some handful of years ago.

I know he talked about... Oh, Bradley Cooper. Yes. Silver Lining's playbook being this like best and worst moment of his life thing where he got the oscar right it was around when he was dreamed of silver light and he's talked about interviews that it was this moment where he was just like oh none of this really matters right right it kind of like humbled him right it's a big and grounded him as a person yeah i i don't know how his father died but there is like there is a specificity to these scenes

especially because of they're not being incredibly long. They're not being many of them. Right. Where there is just like an observational specificity in details that are heartbreaking. There's the thing of her folding the toilet paper. All that stuff. That is just like, that is clearly drawn from the Bernstein children telling him that. His own experience.

Someone he knows. Like, that's not something you write. It's a little detail that you wouldn't think to include. That just speaks volumes, and she just plays this incredibly, incredibly well. And like, the emotional sensitivity of them coming back together

in this moment. I guess we brushed over it, and we talked about it earlier, but the scene where she goes... That's right. We forgot to shout out, right, the big composing scene, conducting scene at the cathedral where he's doing Mahler's second, which is like a symphony he was obsessed with. And she's there. Right. And that's like what matters is that he sees that she's there.

And she says. He's sobbing hysterically. He's sweating. Marie pointed out to me, he goes and hugs her. And then when he pulls away to talk to her, you see the sweat stain of his face on her shoulder and she says to him then like you you have no hate in your heart like she's sort of no hate in your heart she's she's good job uh you know it's i'm juice you know i've got the juice right now right she's uh renouncing her her earlier criticism of him now yeah the that that is 10 minutes of the movie.

And then there's really just 10 minutes left. Right. With all that to say, it feels like after that moment, they get back together in some form. And then shortly thereafter, she's diagnosed. Right. And, yeah. I mean, you know, it's just their whole dynamic at this point, it's like they know each other too well to a certain degree to ever be with anyone else. You know?

I read in this movie something in as she's dying, this feeling of like, I kind of don't know if another person will ever know me as well. That's exactly what it is. And then she's gone. There's a genuine love he has for her there that even if it's like well you know when she passes perhaps i can live a truer version of myself it's like i don't he's never going to have that again in a weird way no instead we just get like you know him conducting a tanglewood with like a young student yes who he's trying to give notes and then eventually he kind of just takes over yeah and does it himself and they all start applauding him he's like oh little old me you know like it's like a where you're like he

loves it like you know right and then you cut to him in a club yes with shout playing yes shout shout let it all out yeah you know uh like him with a red solo cup looking like he's on mdma out yes right and i have been told that someone I know went to a test screening of this movie. The movie ended there. Interesting. And like basically

just like hard cut to that song and that's it. Because when that It was a little more of like a sort of like kind of chilling ending. That moment is fascinating

because you're like this is a version of him I haven't seen because there are even earlier cutaways where there's the party where they're doing coke on top of his head. Yes.

And stuff like that. This feeling of the guy going on benders and whatever. Right. Kind of like, right. Out of control. Yeah. But that moment, you're just like, it's odd to see him in this kind of environment when the movie has almost pointedly been shielding us from this side of his life. Right.

The movie is showing us what he largely wants to present to the public or these very intimate fallouts of those moments. But it's such a brief moment. It is so sort of shocking and just like it's weird to see him in such a modern context. It's weird to see him dancing with young people to a pop song. You know, like all of that is kind of jarring. It feels too modern. Right. I'm like no lenny

bernstein belongs in the 50s like what's he doing in almost the 90s right and he's like drenched in sweat yes and then you watch this and you're sort of like what so is the movie gonna go into like a final chapter of what his life was like after her there are another 20 minutes left and then it cuts back to one final interview exactly it's one final interview of him kind of more like in voiceover basically putting a point on like i missed her terribly yes and then a shot of her looking at the camera and then maestro so basically clearly he kind of toyed with do i really kind of just like get out of there yeah at this kind of shocking like loss he almost does and then he oh and he clearly was like i think i need like something to slightly soften it or whatever um but anyway just interesting to think about because i put this movie on in the morning and i was like i really need to watch it before uh you know i we

come i come here we were recording something before this that was very special and fun and i did not want to be late becoming soon in the year becoming soon the new year very exciting pointing to me about being late i was picking up bag me About being late I didn't point at you I was picking up bagels For the group I didn't point at you I did this I did this

The bagels were not ready They were not ready The bagels were not ready The bagels were not ready And you know It was a good bagel Thank you And it was a lifesaver bagel

Thank you I needed it You needed it That's why I asked In between those two recordings That's why I offered But um I was like

Fuck this movie's not two hours It's like Kind of two 210 you know it's a two inch changer it's not it's an hour 55 really just really long wow because i was like fuck i'm gonna have to get out of here and it's like now it's basically done yeah it's it doesn't feel or to me it doesn't feel long i've heard people complain like a long draggy biopic and i'm like it's a very alive movie to me i agree with you i'm like this falls into this camp of like if this is what oscar bait was oscar bait wouldn't have any negative connotations and to lump this in with things like i don't know the best of enemies there wasn't a single boy in a boat i'll say it none

i'm gonna make a comparison now. Please. Not to Will Smith. Fuck. Sully should have said that. Can I make a comparison now? Can I make a comparison now to a hero? I am one. I feel, and the movie has not yet hit Netflix. Sure.

It's about to. It's about to. Yeah. I feel like Maestro is going to be this year's Babylon. Interesting. Where. You mean like sort of. Masterpieces?

Where it is. Both masterpieces. It is so sincere in a way. Yeah. That irony pilled people will love to hate on it. I mean, that is. And. That is certainly the case.

It's certainly. Obviously. Babylon was greeted with very negative reviews. Right. This got like kind of warm but sort of tepid-y reviews, like kind of people being like, it's good, the acting is good, I had done, you know, it didn't quite get masterpiece-y for me. Part of the Babylon pushback, too, is like, they gave him how much fucking money to make this? They gave him how much money. It's so overblown.

Like, what does he think he knows about movie? You know what I mean? Because like Babylon's trying to be about everything. What does Bradley Cooper know about classical music? But this is, in comparison, a fairly small personal film. I think people, yes, I do think Irony Poison people will fucking revolt against this thing. Right, I do wonder how this will go over once, right, it's, you know, gif-able. But I think...

Yeah. I think not well, which, you know... In another way, though, I think like... Who would have been the best film? The Lights, Camera, Jacksons of the world find this movie a little inscrutable, where they're like, where's the emotional arc? Not enough Tanglewood.

I agree, but I'm saying like, for certain people watching this film, I think they're like, this movie is missing all the scenes that make me make sense of this movie. Right. And it's like, because it's all, not unspoken, but it's like, because it's all, not unspoken,

but it's like he's choosing to, to play the minor notes. I would agree. Yes. Playing the minor notes. It's only minor notes, which is what's interesting about it to me. You know?

Some just quick thoughts before we move on to box office games. This movie, I'm glad you agree, Greg. I love it. I loved it when I saw it, but I walked out of that screening with certain, you know, young Jewish men who share my name and are as handsome as me and have been on this podcast

and are friends with Marie Barney. Children around the same age. Maybe presided over her marriage. Being like, well, that wasn't that good. And I wanted to throw him into 65th Street. And I didn't. You didn't. I heroically resisted.

That's so brave of you. When it first played at Venice, people were a little more mezzo-mezzo on it. I was also just like, why are you not premiering this at New York? Well, could have kind of killed at New York Film Festival, I'm surprised. No, I love this thing unreservedly. It's certainly,

you know, I still have a lot to see and there's stuff I want to re-watch, but I feel like it's firmly in my top five for the year, and I was saying to you, it's certainly, you know, I still have a lot to see and there's stuff I want to re-watch, but I feel like it's firmly in my top five for the year and I was saying to you, it's like, it has a shot at being my number one

depending on how a re-watch plays. That's interesting. What's your current number one? It's Oppenheimer, but it feels soft and or lazy. Like, I feel,

part of me feels like, The thing about Oppenheimer is there's nothing wrong with saying that's the best movie of the year. It's a big fucking, you know, Yes, of a movie. I'm not embarrassed that it's my number one. And it's not like I want to pick something less conventional.

But it's usually my number one is like with a bullet unquestionably. I have no doubt in my heart that is my number one. And Oppenheimer is still like that's probably the best movie I've seen all year rather than being the one that made me levitate. Which this movie did at times. Like, there were sections of this movie I found completely transcendent and transfixing. Now... Oh, just a quick thing.

Please. I just want to point out, I don't know if I should be arrested for this, but I was able to identify that Bradley Cooper's real-life daughter played young Jamie Bernstein the minute I saw her on screen. Marie did call it a movie.

I had no idea. And I just wanted to share, I did not decide to watch this film. I recently lost a loved one to cancer. Yes, we sort of warned you that this might be too triggering yes like so soon basically yes and you might see it sometime i may yeah i may i also missed a

handful of upcoming episodes uh just need to take some time off so yeah our release order you or rather our record order could be very different than our release order. So, there are a couple episodes you've been missing on. There are a couple more still to come in the new year, but not a tremendous amount. And you got to watch The Love Guru. The most important thing. That's what's important. You were back in time for January 1st, Patreon The Love Guru.

The episode that mattered most. And that was a real gift. It's a gift that Griffin wrapped for you, my friend. Ben, speaking of a gift, I have a real gift. Well, Ben. Griffin wrapped for you, Ben, speaking of a gift, I have a Christmas gift, a slow Christmas gift, a Happy Hustle Days gift. Oh, boy.

That, hold on, is being processed right now. You should get a text in a second. Did you literally just order it, like, right now while we're recording

this episode? It's going to his text. Wait, it says credit card declined. Did you order, Ben, a George Santos cameo? Hold on, hold on. Oh, my his credit card declined. Did you order Ben a George Santos cameo? Hold on, hold on.

Oh my God. It better not be Ben. I don't want any blank check dollars going to George Santos. Okay, hold on. It's processing.

We can keep talking. Yeah. This film came out. This is just going to get a big pop when it drops. I guess we're going for Thanksgiving weekend, correct?

That was its release. Obviously, it's four-walled, so we don't know how well it did. But I got a release here from Netflix that said it made a million billion dollars. And that's how much it made. And don't you ask any more questions. David, correction. It made a million billion minutes. Right, right.

You saw it at the Angelica? Yes. But, Griffin, while you do whatever the fuck it is you're doing, You saw it at the Angelica Yes But Griffin While you do whatever the fuck it is you're doing What was number one at the box office Thanksgiving weekend? Thanksgiving weekend It was Hunger Games still?

Yes Hunger Games The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes Surprisingly Taking number one At the box office Everyone thought Wish Would win

The day Wish came in third behind Napoleon. Came in third. That's one, two, and three. Hunger Games, Napoleon, and Wish. Now, you are doing

that noise to Wish. Yes, not to Napoleon. Let's make this very clear. Napoleon, which rocks an epic of cuckoldry and cannons. Griffin, I'm assuming you haven't seen it.

I haven't seen it. I'm waiting to see it with my grandmother. Oh, I'm assuming you haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. I'm waiting to see it with my grandmother. Oh my God, Griffin. Joaquin is just being such a weirdo. I've heard it. I'm excited. I think my grandmother's going to fucking love it. There's a scene where he's making it clear

that he wants to have sex. And he just goes, I can confirm that that is a scene in Ridley Scott's Napoleon. It's so good. I love Napoleon. It's so good. There's no mention maybe of his reform of the French judicial system,

but there is plenty of mention of the fact that he would go, if you wanted to have sex, um, hunger games, anyone seen hunger games? No, but I want to. Yeah.

I need to see it. No, it rocks. I'm a huge fan. I really, we need this kind of franchise back. I don't know if I've said this on another episode yet, but, uh, the whole time I was watching huge fan. I really, we need this kind of franchise back. I don't know if I've said this on another episode yet, but the whole time I was watching it,

I was like, I'm nostalgic for this. This sort of mid-sized franchise. I know it's silly. Yeah. But you know what I mean? Where it's like, yeah, there's three or four of them. Lions Gate, Summit, you know, that's it. Yeah, cool.

Number two, Napoleon. Which is doing great, unsurprisingly overseas yeah has made a bucket over it had a big drop off here but i also think for an apple production which obviously a lot of their business model is uh on the eventual life of the movie on their platform for the service it did better than i think people thought it would yeah but and it's made it's made 170 worldwide yeah like it's you, and it's still going out there. Dare I say it? The big tittied head? No, it's a medium tittied head.

So it's like a C cup head. Okay. You think C cups are mediums? It's a B cup head. David is like... Yeah, see, this is... We have to drop this. I agree.

I agree. It's terrible. Like, we already have such a small sliver of a female audience. I know. It's honestly true. It's not that bad. I've gotten multiple texts female audience. It's honestly true. It's not that bad. I've gotten multiple texts from women.

Yeah, it's not my favorite. Oh, I meant the size of our female listenership isn't that bad. Maybe Big Titty Hits retired, but also we've recorded like six episodes that

won't come out. I know, but I cut it out. Cut it out. Cut it out. Exactly. If we're retiring it, we have to keep it in double. I think Napoleon gets a C cup. That was just my point. Cut it out, man. Cut it out. Exactly. If we're retiring it, we have to keep it in Dublin. I think Napoleon gets a C cup.

That was just my point. Napoleon's still pretty good. Oh, mister who wants to retire it now goes back to the cup sizes. Now, Wish, on the other hand. Yeah. No. I'm joking.

I'm joking. Fine, fine. Has anyone seen Wish? No. Griff, you haven't seen Wish? I haven't seen Wish. Not even out of some perverse, you know, completionist streak will you see Wish.

I'm not going to die someday. When it is on Disney+, I will watch it. I'm not even sure I'll commit that. I'm putting that on the pile of, well, I'm probably going to have to watch it with my daughter someday. Right. But also, like, I said that about Raya and the Lost Dragon. I have not seen that movie. But that doesn't have songs.

No. No. But Wish does. But the songs are kind of bad. People seem to dislike the songs. I haven't have songs. No. But the songs are kind of bad. People seem to dislike the songs. I haven't heard them. I did get sent a vinyl from Disney with the songs on them. Wow.

Humble brag. All right. I'm relieved. I thought you were going to go in another direction. What was that? I thought you were about to be like, it's a flat titty hit. Ben! You just said it!

And you're telling me I have to stop saying it? Number four at the box office I want everyone to know that I got a fraud alert From my bank for trying to purchase the gift for Ben So I have to redo the transaction now But I swear to God this will be worth it Go on David Number four at the box office

Another animated film Griffin Another animated film that is number four at the box office Is it the trolls? Trolls band together Which can I say Softly is kind of underperforming little bit maybe the branch and poppy poppy's magic has you know i think it's a i think it's a response to justin timberlake he has just been officially culturally canceled that's

a bit does not have i think kids are just kind of like what's it about and it's like oh the trolls are back you know like i i don't think these are just kind of like, what's it about? And it's like, oh, the trolls are back. You know, like, I don't think these movies have much of a hook. The hook on this one was not great. Well, the other weird thing about it is, like, the first movie did well. Yeah. Like, held well. But also rock bottom expectations for that thing.

It kind of overperformed Javier Bardem's dance to the song. Like, Second Life, the song is huge. The merch continued to sell. I think the movie continued to play really well at homes with kids. Yeah.

So it felt like it lingered. They make the second movie where the expectations were high because they were like, well, the first movie was kind of a grower. COVID hits, right.

Right. So the first movie did really big VOD numbers, but it was basically the first movie to go straight to VOD rather than theaters in COVID at a very high price point.

And that puts it in a weird space where it's like, we have trolls at home. Is trolls a big screen franchise anymore? Did it almost get a little bit of the Disney Plus TV show problem? And then I think people assume this one would be really big because World Tour was big, just not in theaters. The movie has made $83 dollars 175 worldwide in a month it basically has made its budget back domestically you know so like it's fine but it's definitely

not the universals had a great year this is not why right like they're not like tooting any horns over trolls three no number five of the box is a horror film named after the holiday it was released on. Thanksgiving. Eli Roth's Thanksgiving, which I hear is pretty fun. It's a pretty fun movie. You saw it? Yeah, I saw it with Whitney McIntosh and Patrick Moynihan, friends of the show. Shout out. Shout out to Whitney and Patrick. We had a great time. Okay, well, it sounds pretty good to me. Yeah, it was a fun movie.

Number six of the box office is The Marvels. Here's the story my brother told me about The Marvels. Okay. My brother works uh in theater he works you know in the theater district right so he works near both of the big time square theaters that have like a zillion screens he has like a three-hour gap between shows he's seeing two shows one day manada evening okay he's got nothing to do he can't leave the theater district and he's like well i'll fuck it you know what i'll go see the marvels i never saw that i'll you know i'll go see it not playing yeah gone yeah a month later

basically yeah he's like i can't even fucking see it at like the amc empire basically yeah i went i went to go see it and you were surprised that um i was going not with my little cousin because I mostly go see the Marvel movies with him now. He was like, no thanks. And you were like, why didn't you wait for him? And I was like, the next time I'm supposed to take him out is like two weeks from now and I genuinely am worried it's not going to still be playing.

Which I was kind of right about. Marie, did you see the Marvels? What do you think? Number seven, The holdovers griffin yeah you were kind of tepid on i like it i i'm not even i'm not like being backhanded about it i just it's not a movie i'm doing cartwheels over i was i don't think it's a major pain i think it's a major pain i think it's a major pain it's good thank you But no Look It is like An unbelievably

Enjoyable film Yeah Number eight Is a concert film That's one of the Top ten domestic Grocers of the year Taylor Swift

The year is tour Number nine Is a movie where Someone drinks cum Salt burn Number ten Is a movie about Five nights

At a certain Person's place Freddy I was trying to make a joke. There was an amazing post in our Reddit recently where someone was like... They just saw the boy in the herring. A lot of similarities between boy in the herring

and five nights at Freddy's. And someone just replied with like getting Boss Baby vibes from this. Good. That's so funny. Because they were basically both about it's about a person reckoning with the world he's made. There was some line they were trying to draw. Yeah. That's so funny. Because they were basically both about, it's like, it's about a person reckoning with the world

he's made or something. There was some, like, line they were trying to draw. Yeah, it was very funny. Shout out to that person. I had a dream two nights ago, just re-holdovers,

that I was inexplicably in a high school cafeteria with Paul Giamatti. Sure. The blank check. He was calling you penis cancer in human form. A good line.

One of the best lines in the movie. Blank check group text was blowing up with Marie going, ask him to be on the pod. And I was like, Marie, be chill. I'm just, we're getting, we're becoming friends. We're just getting a cafeteria lunch. We're just becoming friends inexplicably at a cafeteria.

And Paul Giamatti, man, I want to be clear, I've never met, said like, you've seen The Holdovers, right? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, did you like my performance in it? And I was like, yeah, I did. i think obviously i mean you're really good and he's like because i was watching it the other day and i was thinking like this is like virtuoso shit and then giamatti just kept pumping up how good he thought he was in the holdovers and i was like he's right but also like i didn't think giamatti would be a guy who'd pat himself on the back this hard and he's like i'm watching this performance i'm like this is a five course meal but this is like he's right but also like I didn't think Giamatti would be a guy who'd pat himself on the back this hard

and he's like I'm watching this performance I'm like this is a five course meal wait but this is like he's like coming to you in your dream to tell you that

your feelings about his movie I have nothing bad to say about his performance how much do we have to dissect Griffin's dream a lot which is not real I should mention

my therapist also the other day related me to a branch from the Trolls franchise just because it's also relevant in this she's right she's right you're a party pooper yeah i assume i don't know i can't remember i think that was kind of her take um just a shout out also in our boy in the heron episode we did not see it coming that it would be the number one film of the week

over performing and basically outgrossing any miyazaki movie within three days they very exciting really did a great job on 2200 screens like not even i think it would have made more overperforming and basically outgrossing any Miyazaki movie within three days. Very exciting. On 2,200 screens, not even on a lot of screens. I think it would have made more money if they had more showings of the dub. Yeah, but you know what? The best, the thing that was savviest about the way they played

this and just picking the absolute best weekend, because if it had come out one week earlier, it would have been number three. They found a very quiet weekend to put it. and i think godzilla over performing the week before also helped them where it was like a lot of people were like you know what i'm gonna go see another japanese subtitled movie in theaters um but the best thing is them being number one at the box office got them a bunch of free press like all the free headlines they got from like miyazaki tops the box office his highest grossing opening is like free press it will the free headlines they got from like miyazaki tops the box office his highest

grossing opening is like free press it will hold well next weekend i believe they're still trying to climb my chronicle i gotta get this i'm dying okay all right well listen of course every year i produce a holiday album slow christmas and we have this year slow christmas number three it's the fourth release because of course i started with zero with zero the album was released today there'll be a link included in the description but um we have Josh Richman friend of the show contributed a track producer of video archives a long time Earwolf producer

sure we have Gabe Wax who is a producer musician has worked on a bunch of stuff including

all of Soccer Mommy's albums Sadie Dupuis works on her work as well. Oh, yeah, nice. Old friend, long-time listener. Yeah.

Wow. Also want to shout out Future Museum's contributed track, also a listener of the show. But of course, here, somehow, the track I'm going to play is from one Amy Irving. Academy Award nominee for the film Gentle, soon to be covered on the podcast. Winky winky.

And so here we have a clip of Amy Irving performing We Three Kings. We Three Kings. We three kings of Orient are Bearing gifts we traverse afar, field and fountain, moor and mountain, following yonder star. Oh, star of wonder. Star of night. Wow. You're crazy for this one, Haas. Truly crazy.

So good. Incredible shit. Fun stuff. Where can you get it? Everywhere. Wherever you get your music is it is it truly ever in past years it's been only on bandcamp right or is it everywhere everywhere uh previous releases have been on spotify bandcamp kind of a handful of other

but this is the first time i've done a wide release hell yeah boy in the Hair and Style Apple Music Title Title Just search Slow Xmas Number 3 Ben Yes We have this present here Do you want to open it up?

Oh yeah of course Although do we have time? You gotta go We should do this right now Alright I think right? We have the Aquaman episode But that is, of course,

nominally coming out after Christmas. So this is our last release before Santa's big holiday, which is what I call Christmas. All right. Let's open it. Ben is using scissors to open a box. There's a big box that came from AJ McKeon.

Our lovely editor, one of the most helpful people in the world. It's incredible. Yeah. Also, a real snack. Good-looking guy. Yeah.

Right? AJ? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's a handsome fella. Not to get thirsty on me. He's a very handsome fella, and he sent us

what I would say is a tall, narrow box. With Fragile stickers all over it. Fragile stickers. It's pretty flat, handsome fella and he sent us a what I would say is a tall narrow box with fragility stickers. It's got fragility stickers. It's pretty flat and there seems to be something some sort of framed item in here. Looks to be maybe a poster or a painting. Looks to be a poster.

Looks like a poster. What is it? What? What is this? Oh my god. Holy shit. From first glance this appears to be a Sergeant Pepper-esque giant collage that says blank check on it, but I don't know.

Okay, so there's the four of us in the center from the opera show. Oh shit. And our tuxedos. Is it just, I think it's basically like, the note says, thank you as always for letting me be part of the show.

Shout out to Pat for helping with this. So it seems to be all of Pat Reynolds' artwork of us. Oh, wow. Like every character we've ever been. This is amazing. This is good. This is. Yes.

Sergeant Pepper collage vibe. So we're going to have to take a picture of this and post it. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. And we're going to have to hang it in the office. Thank you, AJ. Yeah. And for the time being, it will go against a wall like all of our other fan pictures.

We're going to get everything done in the new year. We're going to get everything done. 2024, baby. Yeah. Year of posters. The year of hanging posters. We're getting that fucking clock put up.

I know. And getting fucking the ceiling treated acoustically. And we're getting fucking, fucking, fucking... Those are your potty mouse over here. Oh, yeah. You've never done that.

Okay. I've never done that. Listen. Maestro rules. Maestro good. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Griffmas.

We're dark next week. Happy Haslidays. Merry slow Christmas. Yes. Then we're back the week after that with... Wonkwa Man. Wonkwa Man. Wonkwa Man. Oh, yeah. Wonkwa Man episode. So we're back the week after that with... Wonkwa Man. Wonkwa Man. Wonkwa Man.

Oh, yeah. Wonkwa Man episode. So we're officially saying it. We're doing both, or did we already kind of announce on social? We announced on social, but we're announcing officially here that... Those of us who aren't on social...

We will discuss two pivotal films of Christmas season, Wonka and Aquaman, The Lost Kingdom. And look, here's all I want to say. Little Cousin, Wonka is his top movie of the holiday season. He wants to meet Wonka. And he's usually superhero crazy and Aquaman has not even been discussed.

See, this is why I think it's important to talk about because we've had a year of superhero fatigue. Warner Brothers is hearing that being like, yes, I like it. He doesn't even know what Aquaman is. Perfect, perfect. Let's get this thing out without anyone seeing it. Yeah.

Maybe it's going to be a masterpiece. Can I say it? I think it's going to be a big chocolate hit. A big chocolate hit! I like that better! Will that apply to everything? I don't know. Listen, this is

we'll see you in two weeks with Wonkaman. Maestro, I hope you all watch it at home. If you've had the chance to go see it in theaters it's even better that way but netflix continues to be a little inconsistent about their release strategies on things uh but thank you all for listening please remember to rate review and subscribe thank you to marie bardi our associate producer on the show oh my goodness thank you thank you thank you to Ben Hosley

our producer on the show yay it's me happy to have you back Ben yeah I'm glad to be back we missed you um tune in next week

for Christmas enjoy your family uh thank you to AJ McKeon for the greatest Christmas gift of all time

and also editing the show along with Alex Barron yeah this is unreal thank you to JJ Birch for another week of vacations AJ McKeon for the greatest Christmas gift of all time and also editing the show along with Alex Barron. Yeah, it's truly outstanding. This is unreal. Thank you to JJ Birch for another week of vacation. Thank you to Joe Bone and Pat Reynolds for artwork, including all this artwork that AJ put on this insane thing. Thank you to Leigh Montgomery, the great American owl,

for our theme song, which, of course, I guess Alex remixed for this episode. Go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, where we do commentaries on film series. We're finishing up Mike Myers.

We have Love Guru kicking off the new year. And then I don't know if we've announced it in this feed or not, but we're doing the Terminator movies. Yeah, we may not have announced that yet, but the next thing on that feed is the love. It's Pitching the Walk. Oh, Pitching the Walk.

A very special episode with J.D. Amato that I'm sure you'll all enjoy in which we are very normal and not tired. Probably our most normal episode, yeah. And then, yes, Love Guru in the New Year, and then I assume zero people will listen to the following episode, whatever that is.

The following episode is the... It'll be a mailbag. I'm just saying everyone's going to unsubscribe. Oh, after... After Love Guru. Yeah, probably. Yes. So that is the end of that.

I'm going to try this one last time. It's no longer even giving me fraud notifications. It's just seemingly blocking me. This is the final shot to see if it goes through. Three, two, one. Credit card declined. Well, Ben, I tried to buy you

a gift card for the amount of the steak at the restaurant that overcharged you for the steak and they will not let me spend the money on it.

See? Which plays into the narrative of them only wanting to get you. Every step of the way, no matter what. I thought this would be a funny bit.

And Chase is basically saying like, why would you spend that much money at this restaurant? We're not going to allow you to do this. It's an absurd amount of money. I thought it was a nice gift idea and I thought it'd be funny, but apparently...

It is funny. The banks will not allow it to happen. I really appreciate the gesture.