Blank Check with Griffin & David - Mars Attacks! with Paul F. Tompkins

Episode Date: February 10, 2019

Blank Check continues its mini-series covering the films of director Tim Burton with the alien invasion comedy, Mars Attacks! But what are the origins of development for this 1960's trading card IP? How does this movie compare to Independence Day 20 years later? Does David have a half-sister, and if so, why has she never been mentioned before? Joined by comedian, Paul F. Tompkins (BoJack Horsman), they discuss the various performances of this stacked ensemble cast, the unusual billing, face goop, Entourage the movie and extreme Burton stereotypes such as happy suburban people and haunted ghost children.  And be sure to check out Paul at Vancouver's Just for Laughs Festival Sunday, February 17th with 'Mr. Jackson & Mr. Tompkins: A Two-Gentleman Improv Show'!

I want the people to know that they still have two out of three branches of the podcast working for them. And that ain't bad. It's a good line. It's a really good line. Hello, everybody. My name is Griffin Newman. David Sims.

This is a podcast. Go ahead. We still have one of the branches of the podcast working for us. Sure. It's called Blank Check with Griffin and... David. He's doing flourishes. He doesn't usually do flourishes. I get fancy.

We got a fancy guest, so we gotta do fancy flourishes. He's the mayor of podcasting, and we need to let him know that everything's on the up and up in this studio. I wore a tie. Ben wore a tie. Ben is tied up. He's looking pretty natty today. Ben is into fashion. Our guest today has walked in dressed

impeccably. Wow. I mean. Is your hat deliberately color coordinated to the Spontanean Nation logo? Yes, it is. Amazing. Unbelievable. I will not say who our guest is, and they will not be able to guess from the question I just asked.

He's a very well-dressed man who has some connection to Spontanean Nation. Well, there's also going to be this subtle clue in the app will tell you the name of the movie and the guest. Sure. But that, you know, take that as you will. Eagle-eyed listeners. Right, right. You have to both listen closely and read closely.

We're not going to say our guess. You were explaining the concept of our podcast. Right. The concept of the podcast is, of course, that we are hashtag the two friends. We're two friends. We host a podcast together. It's a competitive advantage. No one else has it going for them. Right are, hashtag the two friends. We're two friends. We host a podcast together. It's a competitive advantage. No one else has it going for them. We're the two friends. What do we talk about? Kind of irrelevant. I mean, honestly, at that

point. Well, right. But we decided to talk about something. But we are the two friends. We could have talked about anything and we would be running the game. Right. We have a utility patent on that. It's proprietary. And we could honestly just license that concept out and let the dollars roll in. But we decided to talk

about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their career give a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they are incinerated into a green skeleton. Very disturbingly. And they alarm 10-year-old

David in the theater. This movie freaked me the fuck out. I was not ready to see this movie. We can talk about it. This is one of the first movies I consciously chose to see even though I knew it would scare me. I'm a little baby boy. In every sense. Sure.

It was young when this movie came out. Sure. And my dad wanted to see it. He was looking to win me over because he wanted to see it and he knew like well i can two birds with one stone take care of my kids and see this movie sure sure so he was trying to convince me to go see it and he had his friend who had seen the movie call me up on the phone and describe all the scariest moments so i also knew all the disturbing imagery worse yeah worse yeah like someone called you up how old you're like

seven years old I was seven years old it's like so guy's gonna turn into a skeleton like 40 minutes in a 42 year old friend of my father's picked up the phone

talked to a seven year old I don't mean to alarm you but uh Glenn Close is crushed by a chandelier truly described every death like that I was like

so what does it look like when they die it's like they turn into a skeleton and see they're green or red sure what are the other deaths a chandelier. Truly described every death like that. I was like, so what does it look like when they die? It's like they turn to a skeleton and see they're green or red. Sure. What are the other deaths? A chandelier. The hand comes off.

It rips through his chest. Punches through his heart. All these things were described to me and all of them sounded terrifying, but they also sounded so bizarre that I then became drawn to see the movie because I couldn't imagine what they looked like. Yeah. Right. Right. Right.

Sure. Having that described does not sound like, oh yeah,. Yeah, right, right, right. Sure, having that described does not sound like, oh yeah, of course, skeleton. Like most movies, right? When they get shot, they turn into a red skeleton. When you're like a kid and they read like spooky Halloween stories in school and most of them are just like, and he was a ghost. And then

every once in a while there's the one about the woman with the handkerchief around the neck and you're like, this is too much. Still not introducing our guest. Would you like to say something? It was a velvet ribbon. Jesus Christ. Handkerchief.

It would be weird if it was a handkerchief because then someone would literally be like, hey, can I borrow your handkerchief? I don't think the story would be nearly as enduring if it had been a handkerchief. You don't think so? I don't think so. Well, then the rudeness would just be like, it's rude to ask like, what's up with the velvet ribbon around your neck? But it's not rude to ask. That's a stylistic choice. You wouldn't be like, it's rude to ask, like, what's up with the velvet ribbon around your neck? But it's not rude to ask.

That's a stylistic choice. You wouldn't be like, why are you wearing that? But a handkerchief. Can I borrow your handkerchief, please? And they're like, no! You may not. If this story was set during Christmas time, everyone would be asking to borrow the velvet ribbon as well. Just being like, I got this wrapped up.

That's a really good point. That's true. Where's my bow? Can I just borrow that for one second? For one week until the gift is open and then I'll return it back to you. Giving this gift to someone who always saves the wrapping. Yeah. I can retrieve this and get it back to you.

Don't you find it to be like a burden when someone gives you something that is too well wrapped and you don't want to just like rip into it? You feel like you have to show some respect for the like the artistry of the wrapping? Yeah, it is sort of, it's sort of a power move it is a power move yeah it's like I want you to know how much time I put into this yeah

and how little consideration you're gonna put into taking it off yeah yeah I have a sister who does the double rapping half my half sister does the double rapping

do you have a half sister yeah this has wait we have a half sister who this is wait we have a sister who does double wrapping she does double wrapping to make up i guess for that evens out that evens out to one full sister right if it's a half sister with double wrapping she's one full double wrapping like so you've got a beautifully wrapped present she's very artful with the wrapping you open the wrapping what is beneath like a box wrapped in tissue paper. It's like there's another

now there is a new layer of wrapping for you to contend with before you will see. What? Yeah. I don't know. And it's always the same like perfect colored tissue paper. Every gift is the same. It's always very, very arranged. It's very nice. But it's a lot of wrapping. I don't know. It's wasteful.

I can't believe you have a sister and this is never. Half sister. But double wrapping. Once again, which evens out to one full sister. There's a reason I don't bring It's wasteful I can't believe you have a sister And this is never Half sister But double wrapping Once again which evens out to one full sister There's a reason I don't bring her up Why? She lives in England So Paul doesn't know

And we're not introducing him yet But Paul doesn't know that I grew up in England I spent most of my Young life in England I moved there when I was nine You moved there when you were nine?

Nine years old. It comes up a lot. And I left when I was 22. It comes up a lot because a lot of my formative years were spent there. Paul, our guest who I haven't introduced, who is connected to Spontanean Nation and dresses well. Sure. You're a comedian? Yeah.

You understand a great bit? I understand it. Be weird if you said no. I get why we have them. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. But the key, the thing that separates the bit amateurs from the great bitsmen and bitswomen of the world is knowing when to leave the bit.

Knowing when to hang it up from the rafters and retire it. Crucial. You hit it, I don't know, 47 to 68 times and you get outfters and retire it crucial crucial you hit it i don't know 47 to 68 times and then quit it clean right hit it 47 to 68 times and quit it you wrap it in tissue paper you wrap it in a second layer of wrapping that's right on the show so david has this very convoluted bit that he moved to england when he was nine and lived there for a number of years and constantly wants to reference everything through the prism of the fact that he did it when he was in England.

Like, I saw that movie in England, or I met that person in England. You may not know this, but I'm from England. We gracefully hit this bit for three years. Everyone loved it, and we said, let's get out while the getting's good, while this hasn't gotten old. We retired it, and David continues to bring it up every single episode. Right, they retired

it because literally people in my life who don't even listen to this stupid podcast will now, when I say something about like, oh, in England, they'll be like, England? You grew up in England? So they retired it. I thought out of compassion. Now, to be fair to David,

he tried not to mention it. That's true. He did say he wasn't trying to mention it. And you were raking me over the coals for having a relative. But to be fair to Griffin, you could have mentioned the sister way earlier. He browbeats me, though.

You've been doing this for such a long time. For such a long time. Like four years? Like four years. Jesus Christ. We've been friends for five years.

You never mentioned your sister. All right. Well, I'm sure I have. Maybe not. I don't know. Half sister. Double wrapping. Wow.

The movie's Mars Attacks. Our guest today is Paul F. Tompkins. Hi. The great Paul F. Tompkins is here. Yeah. Paul, not only... Knocking his water over. This is, of course, amazing.

It's about the films of Tim Burton, as you know, from everything we've been talking about this episode. Right. It's called Podward Scissor Cast. Of course. And this is the episode on Mars Attacks. Yep. Now, you had not seen this film before. No.

But also said you thought it was maybe the only film you hadn't seen. Yeah, I'm a Tim Burton fan, and I've liked pretty much all of his movies that I have seen, with the exception of that Planet of the Apes movie I really didn't like at all. No one ever speaks up for that one.

I wasn't that crazy about Big Fish either. It has its fans. Did you see the Wonderland picture? I saw it on a plate. That one I knew was like, well, this isn't really for me. Correct. And there were some parts that I enjoyed.

But this seems like a film that would be for you. This is sort of the last of his pure comedies. Yes. I don't know why I didn't see this when it came out. Yeah. But I watched it today, and I must say I straight up loved this movie. I think this movie's the best. It really surprised me.

It really surprised me. For some reason, I thought, I guess because it didn't do that well. It was kind of a flop. Yeah. And I thought, well, this is probably not good. And I really surprised me. For some reason, I thought, I guess because it didn't do that well. It was kind of a flop. Yeah. And I thought, well, this is probably not good. And I really enjoyed it. Well, I think watching this movie now also is just a trip where you're like, Jesus, everyone in this movie is so famous.

There's that sort of delightful, here's Danny DeVito for two scenes here. Yeah. And there's a weird balance of people in the movie who hadn't reached their peak level of fame yet. You got your Jack Blacks. Natalie Portman was just sort of starting out. Even Christina Applegate

is like married with children but she's not as much of a movie star back then. Then you have the people who are like on the other side of it where you have like Paul

Winfield and Rod Steiger. Rod Steiger especially. Jack Nicholson playing two roles. Yes. For no particular reason for no reason they don't meet

is he going to end up impersonating the president at some point completely separate the whole time do you want the full story here's the full story on why Jack Nicholson played two roles we are connoisseurs of context Timmy and Jack old friends from the Bartman days, right?

Which I completely forgot about because I remember when the movie started thinking, how did Jack Nicholson agree to do this? And it's like, oh, that's right, Batman. But he agreed to do that. Yes. He did agree to do that. I think for a sizable sum of money. Yes.

I believe he was the highest paid actor of all time at that point. But I mean, he still agreed to it. He showed up for it though. He did. He did not, like just, he didn't Jor-El it. You know what I mean?

I'm going to work for this money. Don't worry. He definitely has more screen time than Michael Key. I mean, that's one of those movies

where like they knew the villain was played by such a colossal megastar that they'd give so much villain backstory. There's so much of him in his office planning his next attack. He's in it a backstory. There's so much of him in his office planning his next attack.

He's in it a lot. But I always kind of forget that they work together because the first Batman feels like there's a Tim Burton movie and then there's a Jack Nicholson movie. It's a movie that's switching between... When Jack Nicholson's in a scene,

it's a Jack Nicholson movie that he's owning. He's the auteur of those scenes. The first Batman feels like his movie a little bit Batman Returns that's the Burton-y Batman movie a little more maybe but he you know wants to make this movie knows it's going to be really expensive

knows that they need to fill the cast with big stars like if I can get a mega mega A-list legend at the top of the call sheet that helps things a lot so he sends the script to Jack Nicholson and he goes any of these characters jump out to he goes, any of these characters jump out to you? Are there any of these

that you want to play? And Nicholson's response is, I want to play all of them. And they're like, we'll give you two. Why not let him do them all? So that was the honest joke was he wanted to play

like as many as they would let him play. He wanted to do like a Peter Sellers. Yeah, he was like, I'll do six, seven. I mean, there's a Doctor Strangelove vibe.

I guess he's picking up on that. Yeah, yeah, like, I'll do six, seven. I mean, there's a Doctor Strangelove vibe. I guess he's making us on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But two is almost the weirdest number because Doctor Strangelove Sellers does like five? No, just three. He does three. He does three? Yeah. He's the president. He's the president. He's Doctor Strangelove. He's Doctor Strangelove. And he's the other guy. The famous other guy.

No, wait. He does... Now I gotta look it up. He's the president. Yeah. He's Doctor Strangelove. He's the military guy. no wait he does all right all right now i gotta look he's the president yeah he's dr strangelove he's the military guy yeah he's like um you know the assistant to to the ripper he is the title card that says the end at the end of the lineal mandrake you know he that's that's when he's just being peter sellers he's got the accent yeah everyone does their lionel mandrake impressions at parties and just kills. Yeah. Just wipes the table.

Imagine like, let's do a three-person costume. I'll be Dr. Strangelove. He'll be the president. You could be Lionel Mandrake. I feel like three is the number. That's not a bad idea. Three, I feel like, is the number. Like when Eddie Murphy does a comedy where he plays multiple characters, it's three.

Well, and if it's more than three, you might be watching the wrong Eddie Murphy movie. Right. Like the clumps, he did an entire family, right? When he's getting to clump scale, maybe Eddie should have like, should have pared it down. That scene is a master word. That one dinner table scene in the first movie.

In the first movie? Yeah. Yes. The thing I trip out on all the time with that movie, which I have never seen, by the way. You've never seen any clump? No. I think I saw the first time with that movie which I have never seen by the way you've never seen any clump no I think I saw the first

Nutty Professor movie yes is the the fact that he would commit to all of that makeup

multiple times like that's a drag that's a real drag that's a drag that seems so annoying like to do it once he'd be like

I can't wait until this is over but I'll play an entire family and also none of those are easy like something like Norbit where he's playing

like a couple characters like one of them is just him with a wig and glasses like he's got his home base where like Norbit is just kind of him and then he's got two

that require more time but like his normal guy Nutty Professor also requires a fat suit do you think he loves it? like is it possible? apparently because he did it so many times like he normal guy a nutty professor also requires a fat suit do you think he loves it like is it possible because he did it so many times well and like he's got a latex fetish like the first time they put those cheeks on those jowls can't wait to have that goo poured on my face put those straws in my nose like rick baker will talk about him a lot and it like sounds like

rick baker's like the one good working relationship he has they still shoot the shit has just been like he's a lot but he makes it sound like Eddie Murphy is like Lon Chaney where he like

loves the artistry of the whole thing like he lives for it yeah have you ever done that have either of you ever done that gotten the goop

on your face yeah yeah yeah you did the goop for what I liked it I did it for you got gooped a sketch on a show called The Stephanie Miller Show. Okay.

This is so long ago. I'm looking this up. And I played Richard Nixon. Sure. So they made a mask of my – Yeah, wow. They took a mold of my face to make prosthetics, like the jowls and stuff. And it was – I thought I was going to be freaked out by it, and I loved it. took a mold in my face to make a, to make prosthetics, like the jowls and stuff. And, um,

it was, I thought I was going to be freaked out by it. And I loved it. Yes. Because do you, anytime that that is happening, you are free from all responsibilities. There's no,

you can't be rude. Even like small talk. Like you can't, you, you just like you're shut out from the world and it's like a weird little vacation. It's kind of like a spa little vacation. It's meditative. Yeah, it was meditative.

Yeah, I could see that. Absolutely. And people talk to you in a very soothing way. You know, they're like, here's what we're going to do. Yeah. I'm leaving the room

for one second. I have to get something. I'm going to come back. It's so, there's something that's very reassuring about it. They just do this. So yeah, maybe that's

Eddie Murphy's cum. Yeah, maybe. They just do the scan now., maybe that's Eddie Murphy's cum. Yeah, maybe. They just do the scan now. I think they almost never do the pour to get the motion. Because I had to get it done for the tick

for all the stuff they have to build around my head, the helmet and everything. And I've done two or three times and it's just, it's very tedious but it's like they put you

on like a lazy Susan and some guy sits on the floor and rotates you. Like an MRI kind of situation? And you're just like sitting there and they're like, stay neutral. And the guy's holding like a bone density scanner type thing, like a hand scanner. Wow. And you see your

face form in a computer. And on one hand, I'm like, I guess I, you know, I'm lucky I missed the window of having to do the face scoop. But on the other hand, I don't really feel like an actor without having lived through one face scooping. Right. Right. Right. I just, like, I imagine you had this thing as a kid where you're just like, well, there's certain things that signify I'm a real showbiz professional.

Oh, yeah. I got squibbed for the first time recently. That feels like a real showbiz-y thing. Honestly, that was my first, the overriding feeling was like, this feels like Hollywood to me. When I was a kid watching behind the scenes stuff, this feels really cool. And like, to get the compliment

from the stuntman who is like, you really, you really acted that. That was great. You know, because they, they,

their thing is, and I gathered this from, like, I've been around stuntmen very few times in my career. It's like comedy. There's not a,

you know, it's, it's, there's every once in a while there's some like weird thing that you have to do. But very rarely does someone make an 80 million dollar alien invasion comedy with tons of stunts and effects you never have to do anything physical that that that ever

gets that involved where they're like it's dangerous yeah where they're like you can't do i also don't do this easier when it's like comedy stunt stuff because it requires a little less precision. Yeah. Like if you're trying to make things look cool. Yeah. Powerful or impressive. Exactly. These sort of what's the word I'm looking for.

I don't know. It becomes. Similitude. No, it's like the the math of it becomes like very precise. I see. Right. You're going to need to choreograph it. Right.

Whereas if you're just jumping out of like a sugar glass. If you know how to be funny, you can just sort of cross your eyes. You make a fart, you know, whatever it is and it works. Yeah. But for this,

the guy, you know, I had to, I had to get shot and, um, uh, you know, fall to my knees and then die,

you know? And, uh, I had to, the first, I get shot a couple times the first bullet like hits me in my shoulder and turns me around to face the camera yeah and then i get shot in the chest and then i collapse and i was so pleased that i got the the the approval of the stunt guy because i think i think they think think actors can't act this stuff. Right, right, right.

They haven't been shot like we have. They can act crying and stuff, but they can't do this sort of thing. This is where we come in. I would be afraid to do that. Every time I get a stuntman's approval, like the recognition thumbs up, it feels like the jocks on the football team

are telling me I'm pretty funny. 100%. You could like hang with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You know, like for someone who doesn't know what they're doing, you did a pretty good job.

I just like, I melt. It's like my father saying that I caught a ball well, you know? Did your father never say that you caught balls well? There was one time I scored a goal in soccer and my dad talked about it

for eight years. And I was like, I scored a goal in soccer and my dad talked about it for eight years. And I was like, I've done a ton of school plays. Sure. Many, many. And you came to them. And your only compliment would be like,

you remembered your lines. It's a lot of lines. Important to do. Yeah. Good to note that you did that. And he was following along with the script the whole time. He was. That's true.

Alright, so Mars Attack. So Burton in general. You like Tim Burton? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Since Pee-wee's Big Adventure, I've always been a fan. He's... So have you stuck with Burton's... You know, did you see like Big Eyes? Did you see... Yeah, I saw

Big Eyes. Miss Peregrine that one I haven't seen but you're a guy who tours a lot you're traveling a lot if you're on a plane and there's a Burton you haven't seen you might catch it there oh for sure but I usually screeners like I watch Sweeney Todd

on a screener when that came out there's so much good stuff in Sweeney Todd I think that I liked Sleepy Hollow a lot of people, I think that I liked Sleepy Hollow. A lot of people didn't like that. We like Sleepy Hollow on this podcast. I really enjoyed that movie. I thought it was a lot of fun.

That movie is very fun. Yeah. And it's like a slasher movie for British character actors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hilarious. Yeah. I think that movie's special. This does feel like-

This movie's kind of like that too, where you're kind of like, no one would ever make this now. No. Oh my God, no. Jesus. No. I can't believe they made this thing and I feel like when people talk about what a Tim Burton movie is today a lot of times

it's reduced to the surface elements of like here's a loner the suburbs are weird the aesthetics the spirals and the stripes and all that sort of stuff but this is the last movie that like in the mode of what put him on the map with like Pee Wee and Beetlejuice feels like a full Tim Burton movie where it's like here's all the elements.

Here's everything in it together. It's like a comedy but it's also a high genre thing. It's all the influences of all the pop culture he like absorbed. It's very, very like a 60s sort of Gen X-y kind of outlook. Fun ensemble cast like, you know, balancing all these different tones of performance there is an underlying like emotional sincerity to it like the thing i found i was going back and reading reviews of this movie and everyone uh not everyone but this movie is like pretty trash when it came out i think and most of the reviews said like it just feels like he doesn't

even give a shit like they were like this movie feels really snarky like he's just riffing on these things he doesn't care because i i find that very surprising it's a very sincere film me too yeah well there's a flippancy to it but mostly in in like the destruction but i don't think it's insincere like it's very sincere and there is there's a weird like i like that he makes the martians, like, weird nihilists. Like, they're like punk kids throwing, like, rocks at cops, right? Right, right, right. Where it's just, like, they get so much joy out of destroying stuff, and that's the only thing that's driving them. They have no, right, they have no other motivation.

You never learn anything about them. But they're humanoid, and they're speaking in dialogue, and they're emoting. So you get the sense of, like, unlike the aliens in, like, Independence Day, where, day where like these are just creatures and i can't connect to what they're doing what their reasoning is i did i did turn on the uh the subtitles because i was curious how it would be represented right and it's just yeah which that made me laugh but they um the the idea that that the the movie is about it's about lay it out for us the people of earth continuing to trust these monsters it was making that the idea when i when i realized that's like because i there was a there was a point where i was like i think this is what's going to happen.

And I hope this is what's going to happen. It never stops. And then it happened. And then I was like, Oh, I am fucking in. Yeah. Completely.

This is great. The amount of time they spend going like, okay, the dove was the problem. This time now we're, I think we figured out. So they're going, this is going to be great.

So your favorite gag in the movie is the French president calling, being like, it's, being like, it's fine. So good. And Nicholson on the phone just genuinely worried. All it takes is one cut away from Jacques. You see him in the boardroom. Everything's very civil. They cut back to Nicholson.

And when they cut back, everyone's incinerated. The Eiffel Tower's on fire. That they would go to the trouble of making them think that they were going to have a peace conference. Yes. That they would sit at little tables and stuff like that and then kill them. Yes. It's hilarious. And that's the thing I really like about this movie is, and I know you and I disagree on this thing,

but the thing that this kind of reminds me of is like Shaun of the Dead. Sure. Where it's like, what I find funny about this movie, but also weirdly scary about this movie is, this is how I believe real people would actually act in these circumstances. Shaun of the Dead,

it just, I mean, which I don't, it's not like I dislike the movie, but it just, it's too, I get too upset. It's too upset.

Yes. Like when shit gets real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're stuck in the bar, and they're, yeah. The two biggest jokes in this movie that I think are so effective and I think do show a kind of keen

insight into the human condition I mean this is when he's still making movies about human behavior and not just his own like quirks right one that the humans keep on trying to rationalize what's happening like they're in a movie.

Yeah. And they can solve this narratively. Yeah. And two, that everyone makes it about themselves. That it's like a movie about an ensemble cast of narcissists. Yeah. When we're so used to these like ensemble alien invasion movies where it's like slowly but surely,

the skeleton crew is assembled from all these different satellite plot lines. Right. And they become the six people who can stop it. Right. And it's everyone trying to go like, I think I know what's going on. Yeah. And I think this is about me. Yeah. from all these different satellite plot lines and they become the six people who can stop it. And it's everyone trying to go like, I think I know what's going on. And I think this is about me and I can fix this. And everyone's wrong the whole movie.

Pretty much. Pretty much. And Lucas Haas, who's like the one who saves the day is like, I don't know. I feel like a lot of people did more than I did because he hasn't been watching the movie and doesn't realize that he's the only person who's done like selfless things the entire film. But he's got no sort of delusions of being a hero.

He just kind of likes his grandma. Who's a great lady. Juno from Beetlejuice. I do also think this is kind of the best cast of all time. It's amazing. I look at the ensemble cast, the diversity of it, the breadth of it. There's people that are doing some fun against typecasting. Michael J. Fox. Playing a creep. He never, ever did it. Yeah. There's people that are doing some fun against typecasting. Michael J. Fox,

you know, playing a creep. He never, ever did it. Never. This is the only time, right? And he's,

and he's like, and he's great and he's enjoying it and you know, and he commits to it. And he, and he dies. Like,

imagine sitting down and being like, you're going to be, you're going to be an asshole. You got three scenes. He's in the first 30 minutes like a lot proportionately and then he's like

the third guy and she like has your hand that's it maybe it's like after oh he did Bright Lights Big City too yeah

but maybe it's like but even that he plays at night yeah that's true you know like that's sort of the problem he is the protagonist yeah

but maybe it was like okay I'll be this jerk that'll be fun but when do I get killed right right if I only give you But when do I get killed? Right, right. If I get killed early on, then it won't stick. Yeah, right.

And I won't get stuck playing jerks forever. It is also one of these movies where they set up so many characters and there's so many big people from like massive movie stars of the moment to people who are on the rise to people who are just kind of recognizable as like, oh, that guy or her kind of character actors. That I do feel like it's one of the movies like this where you're like, I genuinely can't put my chips down on who's going to make it at the end. No, right. Yeah. Like you could just as likely see Michael J. Fox

riding it through. Absolutely. You know, especially because like it throws out any notion of like, well, this character is presented as a dick. This character is presented as sympathetic. Right. You know, they're going to be the hero.

Here's the other thing though. Danny DeVito and I look I like billing I like to think about billing above the title posters things like this it's fun to think about

and Danny DeVito he's above the poster with Nicholson and Glenn Close and Annette Bening and Pierce Brosnan Danny DeVito he plays a character

called Rude Gambler doesn't have a name he's in two scenes they set him up so early where you're like well this is a thread we're gonna keep on coming back to rude gambler is the name of the character and like you know they didn't put like sarah jessica parker or michael j fox or net baby's character had a name in network. Yes. Rude network boss. Yelling man.

You're a man who's worked as a character actor for a number of years. I'm sure you've had your auditions and booked your roles with names like that. Rude gambler. Surly bartender. And you're like, and I'm fifth billed. I'm above the poster. Guarantee that I'm above the title. Jim Brown is a very famous athlete who's kind of the main character.

He's kind of the hero of the picture. But rude gambler had to be up there. Rude gambler. And I also like, I'm seeing this as a seven-year-old, right? So for me, the people I know are famous are people like Danny DeVito, where Danny DeVito in the 90s was just omnipresent. He was like Robin Williams where he was like a type of a person. Doesn't matter if you've never seen a Danny DeVito

movie or you've never seen an episode of Taxi. You know Danny DeVito. Everyone makes jokes about Danny DeVito. He looks so great. He's just like, he's fun. I agree. I love Danny. To be clear, I think he's great as Root Gambler. But I just remember, Papa needs a new pair of shoes. He rolls the dice.

I turn to my dad and I go like, now we're in business. I'm watching a Danny DeVito picture. But like lines of dialogue under 10, right? Barely six. Yeah. Gives Tom Jones a compliment before he dies.

I think. And he is fully not in the movie for 90 minutes. Oh yeah. You completely forget about it. First five, he shows up 90 minutes later and then dies within two minutes. You absolutely think it's a cameo. You're like, oh, it's Danny, Tim's friend.

He's going to be in Dumbo later, you know. But he's like above the title and it was also one of those posters where it was like the main artwork was the aliens, but then it had the little boxes of the actors where it was just like, here's some familiar face. And Danny's up there with his hat. He's in there with his hat.

He's wearing a hat. The role of a rude gambler. The hat of a rude gambler. Yeah. This guy won't take his hat off. You rude gambler the hat of a rude gambler yeah this guy won't take his hat off you feel like this piece of shit rude gambler

you feel like he just as easily could have played the second Nicholson role like he could have played the casino owner yeah that's like a total Dan DeVito part

sure yeah I'm glad Nicholson played it though me too it's really funny it's crazy that he did that and he was like make me up a little

I don't know Do you think it was his idea to have the hair attached to the hat Yes 100% that's a Nicholson joke That's very funny He's going like hog wild In this movie And he was coming out of a somewhat austere period Bit of a slump

Because he'd been in things like Wolf was his last big movie The Crossing Guard was before. He's making like serious Hoffa. I think he wanted to like let me write. Let me shake out the sillies. And then next year is as good as it gets.

Which was as good as it ever got for America. But I was going back and reading a lot of press. That was it. You don't agree? That's an interesting theory. Hear me out on this one. Pre-Whitewater, you know? It was a different time. It was an innocent time.

Pre-Whitewater. That was the best it ever got. The innocents died. America was 100% innocent until Whitewater. We're relitigating Whitewater? Yes. What were you going to say? No, I was going back and reading so much press 80% innocent until white water. That's right. We're relitigating white water? Yes. Okay. All right. Okay. What were you going to say?

No, I was going back to reading so much press from when this movie came out because it was hyped up as like, this is one of the big movies of the year. Warner Brothers has let Tim Burton make a like $80 million star-driven... Sci-fi action movie. Right. And comedy.

Right. It's based on Topps trading cards, which box office guarantee. In a time where people didn't cravenly make movies off of every non-narrative piece of IP. It's true, right? It seems kind of weird that it was based off trading cards. Remember those trading cards? It's like five movies. We're going to do.

Doesn't it even say, like, there's a weird, it's worded weirdly in the opening credits. It says Topps, for sure. It says Topps, inspired by the trading card line created by- I think it says property. I swear, I feel like the word property is in there. Manufactured might be in there. I know the Transformers movies have that where they go, inspired by the toy line manufactured by Hasbro.

Which is always so off-putting. You gotta give it up to the manufacturers. You gotta. You gotta give it up to the manufacturers. You gotta. But yes, here's the weird incubation of this movie. This trading card line I think was sort of a formative

thing for a lot of people of that generation because it was really upsetting. Because the iconography was really upsetting. And a lot of the creepiest imagery in this movie comes from that. How old is that? 70s? You can find them online and read them all. There were only so many

of them. It's essentially a story told in trading cards. It's like Martians attack. Here's what they do. It's not a really strong narrative. It doesn't have human protect. I don't want to burst anyone's bubble here. 1962.

Geez. Wow. But you know, they're cool. They're cool. I mean, the design of the Martians is incredible. And you have your sort of generic ones like this, but things like the burning cows. Yeah, the burning cows are in there. That comes straight from the cards.

And I think a lot of people grew up with them, had these images burn in their mind of like, these were really upsetting. Yeah, that is upsetting for hating cards they were eventually like tops recalled them because they were like too gross right yeah and it predated sort of wacky packages and garbage pill kids and all those things that then became bigger in the age and they were not supposed to be funny they were supposed to be kind of cool right they're cool it was like a comic book in yes card form exactly and like and the martians are creepy they're big brained skeleton they're it's the character design is

so good it is it's so good it's perfect yeah but i think it was you know they're sort of riffing off the 60s b sci-fi movies of the time but because it wasn't a movie and they didn't have to like abide by the mpaa yeah they got really intense the cards right you know so i think people had these sort of like burned into their brain nightmare images of it right in the 80s alex cox tries to make a movie of this right like post repo man really yeah sid and nancy he's like i've wanted to make a mars attacks movie here you go it's based upon mars attacks a property of the tops company so weird there you go and It's based upon Mars Attacks, a property of the Topps company. So weird. There you go. And everyone's like, yeah!

That's when the theater ear-ups. And it's screening just for lawyers. Well described! That is one of those things. I guarantee you the lawyer for Topps turned to his wife at the premiere and he was like, that was my work.

We spent seven months on the wording of the title card no one could agree oh boy yeah so Alex Cox tried to make it I think you're right who at that point

is like a pretty like sort of like subversive transgressive filmmaker isn't trying to make like a big studio like

but he I think has like you know has been haunted by these cards for a while he tries to make it for a while he can't crack the script.

They bring in Martin Amis. Famed British novelist. No, British. British novelist. Should I say this? He went to the same school that I went to. I don't know what to tell you. He actually did. So did

his dad, Kingsley Amis. To switch back,athan james because at that point it's set up at orion uh that's right right which makes sense right and they're like we're not gonna make a fucking mars attacks movie this is like some cause they give up the rights now two weird things happened one is that uh when jurassic park the the manuscript starts circling around Hollywood, the thing hasn't been published yet, but he's with, what's his name? Mr. CAA. Michael Eisner? No, King of Agents.

Ovitz. Ovitz, right. Because Ovitz represented Crichton. Sure, Michael Crichton, yeah. Crichton, who was so prolific, had like writer's block for three years. Okay. And Ovitz was like, he's working on something really big.

Okay. It's taken a while, but it's going to be worth it. It's about a sphere. So he was hyping it up for so long. And then Crichton called him up one day and was like, I finally conquered writer's block.

Here's the premise. They make dinosaurs. And he was like, I can sell this tomorrow to everybody. And Crichton then like wrote it in a week and they immediately went to studios and they were like, here you go.

Here's your blockbuster. So they got into a competitive bidding war where every studio had their like top in-house filmmaker presented as their option to make it. Right. And Warner Brothers was like, we can get Tim Burton to do Jurassic Park.

Warner Brothers and Burton was universal with Spielberg and someone else had Zemeckis, right? Right. And I think maybe Joe Dante was in the mix somewhere. And when Spielberg was interested, all the other directors were like,

fuck it, I'm not even going to try to keep it. Right, he can do it. But Burton got kind of the idea into the idea of doing a dinosaur movie. Yeah, like a sci-fi B-movie with dinos. And there was another Topps Trading Card series at the same time

called Dinosaur's Attack. Similar to Mars Attacks, I believe. So I think Jonathan Gems, who had not gotten a produced credit on a burton film but was a guy who was rewriting a lot of burton's movies had written beetlejuice cause hawaiian the unproduced beetlejuice sequel that's right uh came to him and was like look orion sony just gave this thing up it's in turnaround here's the property they also have a dinosaur thing this is your chance to make a dinosaur movie.

I have a real take on how to do Mars attacks. We take this iconography, the imagery of the cards, and we put it through the prism of like an Irwin Allen disaster movie. It's Towering Inferno. It's Airport. Here's an ensemble cast of great movie stars, satellite, plot lines, everyone reacting to this disaster. And they set it up as like we're going to do two of these. We're going to do a dinosaur movie and we're going to do Mars Attacks. And very quickly

Jurassic Park becomes such a monolith that's like I shouldn't even try to touch this. Let's just do the Mars Attacks movie. So Jonathan Gems writes a script and Warner Brothers budgets it at $260 million. It had 60 primary characters and took place in

12 cities. So it was like shortcuts basically. Right, but shortcuts where every scene cost 40 million dollars. Was that just them saying like we could never make this? Like it would cost this much money? I think he wrote, right, they were just like this is impossible. So Warner Brothers is very

committed to doing it. Tim Burton is pretty much set up at Warner Brothers at that point. He occasionally makes a movie somewhere else. Sure. He goes off to do Ed Wood, and he's like, look, I'm into doing this. I'd love to do it after Ed Wood because I'm going to be studying all the movies of that era that I'd sort of be referencing. You're going to be making a movie. Shrink this thing down.

By the time I'm done with Ed Wood, I come back, I'm ready to make this thing. So the thing's been in development for a while. They bring on Scott Alexander, Larry Kaczewski they rewrite it everyone comes back jonathan gems it's like i wrote like 60 drafts of it it kept on being like shrink it down shrink it down shrink it down they finally get it to like a hundred million dollars right and the final cost is that he wants to do all the martian stop motion which would have cost a ton of money because of the time it would have taken to do that many characters. Because they're person sized. It would be a nightmare.

And he's like, I like stop motion. I like the handmade feel. It'll feel retro. It probably would have been pretty cool. And one of these famous last words, they were like, Tim Burton, how about you meet CGI? Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Welcome. One day you could make some peculiar children with it perhaps

or a dark shadow you barely have to use humans at all you barely have to show up it's like genuinely like introducing like like

he's like Kurt Cobain to Courtney Lund I guess this is okay CGI yeah but that cuts the budget down to 80

which is still incredibly high. They get all these big stars attached because everyone wants to work with Tim Burton, and they finally go and start working on this movie unaware of the fact that Independence Day is being set up at the exact same time. So they think,

oh, we're doing a sort of throwback parody to this type of movie. We're combining 60s sci-fi movies and we're combining 70s disaster movies, and those are the two reference points it's a big broad star driven comedy and at the same time they're making a super earnest attempt to modernize that type of film so everyone can take it at face value again it's like now the special effects are amazing and it's patriotic and you believe in the heroism of humanity and

it comes out like four months before this, and it fucks this movie. No, it does. It comes out four months before, right? It was July and October? No, this movie comes out in December. It was supposed to come out earlier. It was scheduled as a summer movie,

but it took too long. The effects. The effects took too long. So it becomes a Christmas movie? So they push it to Christmas, which is a horrible time to release a movie like this. It should be coming out in January or March or something. It effects took too long. So it becomes a Christmas movie. So they push it to Christmas, which is a horrible time to release a movie like this. It should be coming out

in January or March or something. It's a silly movie. And everyone wrote it off as like, oh, it's like an insincere, snarky parody of Independence Day, a movie that was made in a vacuum from this show.

Sure. But it is crazy to watch this and think this is not responding to Independence Day in any way. This is its own thing. Came out the same year. Yeah, it was a huge flop. Yeah, they spent $80 million.

$20 million to promote it. It did 37 in the US. It did weirdly well overseas and I feel like it has a better reputation now. But all the critics just like fucking butchered it and they were like, I don't get it. What's the joke? He's just making fun of everything. What's there to grab on to right

I don't know but I think it's a movie that's about like you know uh uh I think there's so many things I latch on to this film where I'm like that actually feels like the keenest uh sort of uh uh projection of how

society would respond to this thing yeah I mean even even I find the end pretty touching, not to skip all the way, but when Taffy is handing out the Congressional Medals of Honor, and it's like, the monuments are broken, and they have a mariachi band playing the National

Anthem, and this idea of, like, I guess we kind of got to keep up appearances. Like, it feels like this is how society would act. And the fact that Lucas Haas' speech is so terrible. to keep up appearances. Like, it feels like this is how society would... The ending is lovely. And the fact that Lucas Haas' speech is so terrible. The worst. Maybe we should go back to T-Piece. Yeah, a guy who never in his life

would be called upon to give a speech. Now he has to give a speech, and it's like, I don't know, I got to say something profound, I guess. Right. You compare this movie to Independence Day, which is about... We have to rebuild our houses and stuff.

Right. Not society. Right. You compare this movie to Independence Day, which is about- We have to rebuild our houses and stuff. Right. Not society. Right. Independence Day is about ordinary Americans rising to the occasion. Yeah, sure. And this movie, everyone who rises to the occasion is like, who, me? Yeah.

Can I share with you my big grievance with Independence Day? Oh, please. Which I get this out as many times as I can. Please. So you have Randy Quaid's character. Sure. He flies the crop duster, right? Crop duster, right. And so when they are looking for volunteers to fly planes to combat the aliens, which

we have established the aliens at this point mean us harm. Right. They have destroyed- They keep blowing up cities. They keep blowing up a bunch of recognizable landmarks. A thing, by the way, I never get tired of. I love that.

I don't know why that's so enjoyable. You're like, what's it going to be? Whoever did that first was really onto something because they knew like, people will like this. A famous thing that everyone knows

being destroyed. King Kong, right? People will like this. I guess. It's like him on the Empire State Company. We're like, look at that building! It's right over there. So, okay, so Randy Quaid is volunteering to help

combat the aliens. Yes, right. And so they're talking to everybody. All the pilots are there. They give them a big pep talk and Randy Quaid is saying, yeah, because one of those aliens abducted me and they probed me and all that stuff. I can't wait to get my revenge on him or whatever. Right. And everyone around him is saying, yeah, because one of those aliens abducted me and they probed me and all that stuff. I can't wait to get my revenge on him or whatever.

And everyone around him is like, okay, weirdo. It's like, there are aliens. Why is his story unbelievable or weird? This old alky. There are aliens who

mean us harm. Why is this crazy? It's a fair point. Is it just that he's Randy Quaid? Is it just like, Randy Quaid's talking? Well, he's not playing himself. Paul, it does come after that big monologue about the Hollywood Starwackers. The what?

His line about the probing comes right after his monologue about the Hollywood Starwackers. He does do 10 minutes on that. Right, and then he records a sex tape wearing a Rupert Murdoch mask. This was the DVD. Yes. This is not the theatrical. This is an extended edition.

Too hot for theaters. R-rated and out of control. No, they're not nice to him. They should be saying, like, Cropdusters and fighter jets, very different. Are you sure? Like, it should just be that it should be a very reasonable questionnaire. You know, these things, they're jet

planes. Yeah. Like, you know, that is more to the right. Right. For sure. And he's like the aliens probing. They're like that's fine. The alien blew up the city. I don't doubt it. These aliens are bad news. I don't like them either. Do you know how to fly one of these planes? I lived in New York. Do you know about to fly one of these planes? I lived in New York.

Do you know about that? It's a flame. It's just a fiery circle. Have you ever seen, it's online, but the way they wrote and shot the movie before they were like, this is too fucking much. Because once they're like, does anyone here know how to fly a plane? And he rides up. Suddenly he like sobers up totally. He's up to the occasion.

He's in the proper like top gear like sort of fighter plane all that and he does his heroic move. The original way they shot it you can find it on YouTube is he takes his like old beaten up

like 30 year old bomber plane and he like duct tapes like a missile to it. Wait really? And he's like I'm going in!

Like he's essentially like Slim Pickens in like he never gets heroic. He's just the ridiculous guy who happens to solve. Well, but this is to Paul's point. He's an insane person willing to kill himself. Is that the movie has no, like, sympathy for him, even though it's about aliens who destroy the Earth. Yeah.

Well, they kind of, they'll then give him the heroic moment. And there's that thing where they go and like, your dad was a hero, you know, in the control room. But like that character, you know when they're spending so much. They only do it after he's dead. I know. They're like, he's dead? Anyway, your dad was a hero. You watch that movie and that's like such like precision, like fucking studio filmmaking storytelling that you're like, okay, this guy's going to get redeemed in some way.

They're spending so much time on this like drunk butterball. redeemed in some way. They're spending so much time on this like drunk butterball. But that's what, it's so weird that Mars Attacks comes out the same year because in Mars Attacks, they cut to like a trailer park

and you're like, oh, this is going to be important and it's not important. No, and it is like, well, you know, the grandma's important. I also think, not to get too lofty about it,

but I feel like this movie is kind of about like the meaningless of death. Sure. Like just all these deaths are like totally random. It doesn't matter how much backstory someone's given. Or how famous you are.

How much windup you get for the death, how famous you are. It's just like, this thing's coming for people and they're all trying to fight it. Yeah. And some of them get a big ending and some of them are just collateral damage.

Yeah, they can't accept it. They're just like, I know they look like walking skeletons with big brains, but they must be nice. They have a spaceship. I mean, you saying that you, when you were like,

if the joke of this movie is that they keep on trusting them, I'm in the other fact, the more detailed thing that they keep on just doing the sneak attack of pulling the guns out. Yes. They keep on doing it. Like Congress. He literally doesn't think we should wraps the podium.

It's like, it's constantly just reaching under their armpit and that great the great Pierce Brosnan line that is repeated a couple times you know that well they're more advanced so obviously they must be peaceful

there's why wouldn't they be we are the barbaric ones they're right this translation machine that everyone keeps on going to and then they end up taking it and just fucking like snarkily using it to repeat we come in peace stop running

they're just like shitty teenagers it's so funny the Martians in this movie are like the people that Ben hung out with in high school they're just like New Jersey scumbums Ben's a ditch person from New Jersey. Yeah, a ditch person? Yeah, he spent a lot of time in ditches

growing up in New Jersey. So these are a lot like my friends. Did you see this movie? Oh, for sure. Multiple times. Multiple times? Yeah. I was a little stinker growing up.

I really related to the aliens. You were sort of like a rude gambler type? I'm on my way. Okay, sure. Did you take the Witch Mars Attacks character quiz? I got the aliens. This movie feels like it could be like Ben's identity, where every character is actually just a part of his personality in his head.

But it's crazy when you think about it that James Bond is in this movie. James Bond. The current James Bond. Like right after. This is like his immediate. He's in the middle of being James Bond. And he's like, yeah, I'll be a pipe smoking weirdo. There's so many weird, interesting uses of like movie stars and their persona in this movie.

Who's like shitty at flirting. The way he's like distorting. Right. But he like, there's a balance of like him telling certain people to play it so fucking straight yeah and like Nicholson just going hog wild

he's he's playing it more straight as the president though like it's a very funny and kind of nuanced like comedy performance it's one of his most

likable characters yeah where like when when they are being you know hustled out of the White House right and they lose Natalie Portman,

he actually says, we lost Taffy at one point. Yeah. Right. Which you don't, you kind of, I think what, you're so used to Jack Nicholson

and in this movie, you don't expect him to give a shit, you know, that his daughter has been separated from them. Right. But he actually does.

Yeah. And it's like, I don't know. There was, I was struck by that. What his wife does? His wife and his daughter. They're trying to get him out of there? Even though his wife is like, Glenn Close being like, I'm going to make fun's like, I don't know. I was struck by that. What his wife does? Yeah. They're trying to get him out of there?

Even though his wife is like Glenn Close being like, I'm going to make fun of the Nancy Reagan type, sort of housewife in chief thing. But Nicholson still likes her when she's dead. He's sad that she got smushed by the chandelier. And Ben and I were saying before we recorded how weird it is to watch movies now like this that fictionalize

a president we're like right the stereotype for presidents forever used to be like they're very good performers they're very good at making it seem like they care so much sure sure it's like it's a gen x movie i mean this is tim burton's a gen xc guy right and this movie is quietly kind of like it's all horseshit you know those guys are stupid like right like and like all the generals are bad like Paul Winfield is just as dumb as Rod Steiger that's the thing I love about this movie is

like I feel like you know if you look at like Edward Scissorhands and this gets heightened as you get into later films where it's like there are the weird like circle eyed like paper white pale timber and weirdos and then there's the happy people, and they're at odds with each other. Little automatons. Right.

Why don't they realize everyone should be this dark and weird and haunted, right? These people pretending to be happy. But because this gets away with those, like, stereotypes, and it depicts, like, 80 different types of people, the big thing I think he's getting at is just, like, everyone's kind of putting on airs. Sure. The big thing I think he's getting at is just like everyone's kind of putting on airs. Like everyone's sort of trying to make it seem like they know what they're doing, that they're happy. And everyone's kind of putting on a show. And the few people who come out heroically in the movie are the people who just are like naturally themselves. Like Taffy and Lucas Haas, Pam Greer, Jim Brown.

Like these people who are just kind of like, I don't know, I am what I am. But even the end up Benning character, I think like he doesn't. She does survive. I don't know. I am what I am. But even the end up Benning character, I think like he doesn't. She does survive. Yeah. I think he has some sympathy for her is so much about her like trying to find meaning in the universe.

Can I address one thing though? I don't. For me, those movies, the Tim Burton suburbia movies are not necessarily saying everyone should be more like this weirdo. It's more like this. more like this weirdo. It's more like this. What I always took it as is the weird, like you, if you are in a place like that

and you're a little different, you might as well feel, you feel like you might as well be Edward Cisterns, right? Right. That everyone is constantly talking about how you're weird, you don't fit in and all that stuff.

Right. And it's not, I never took it as, you know, hey, we're supposed to be like this, but it's like, if you feel like this, this is how people treat you.

I agree with that. I think it's just one of those things where. I knew you would, you cock beta male. Nailed it. Yes, Paul. Yes,

Paul. Whatever you say, Paul. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. Everyone feels like every sister hand.

Yes. No, Paul're right. You're right. You're right. Everyone feels like every sister has. Yes. No, Paul is correct. Jesus. I do feel like. Not expecting. You've had that one locked and loaded all episode. I saw you had your trigger finger. I did.

I was ready. I was like, when will be my opening? When do I just get to pwn this new send him away in the whambulance? No, I think it's just that it gets reduced to people feeling like, when the divide

is that stark, when he's dealing with such extreme stereotypes of like, there are only two types of people. Happy suburban people and haunted ghost children. Right, I totally understand. That it can be misinterpreted as that's the message. And then when you get to some of the later films where there isn't really a message behind it. Sure.

In lack of any sort of social commentary. Yeah. That's what it feels like. It's like, like dark shadows is the shittier version where he's just going like this weird vampire family's normal. Yeah. And everyone else is shitty.

Yeah. Which is like, Hey, that was the, the monsters. Right. We've seen the Adamams Family, Tim. I thought it was a strange

choice with Dark Shadows to make it a straight-up comedy. We re-watched it recently and it's like it works well when it's just a straight-up comedy, which was a weird choice. But just going like, it's a fish-out-of-water comedy. He's an old-school vampire. He doesn't know how things work. It works fine.

It's not outstanding. It's tough with a movie like that where if you if you have in your head an idea of what it could be what it could have been or what you expected it to be yes like i knew it was going to be a comedy when i saw it but but i i kept thinking because the i'd i'd never seen the original dark shadows but I'd read a bunch about it for whatever reason. It was another Mars Attacks-like object that people sort of obsessed over. It's such a strange thing. It is. And I kind of, I guess I couldn't get past the idea of wanting to see a dramatic movie that's actually Sophie.

More in the dramatic vein of Tim Burton and what that would have been. Which she could have done. Which he could have done. Which he could have done. Yeah. And maybe, I don't know who convinced him like, well, no,

you got to keep it Adam's family. Yes. It might've been as, I mean, like I get the instinct to make it a comedy because it's a soap opera. It's, you know, also saying like,

you know, especially in a pre what we do in the shadows era where that hadn't been done yet. Yeah. You almost feel like start from scratch. Yeah. Don't use this property that has a really tangled mythology. Yeah. And just go the premises, Johnny Depp wakes up 400 years later.

Yeah. Maybe don't use Johnny Depp. Yeah, that's another thing. The premise is someone wakes up from a cough and he doesn't understand our modern ways. And it's like, you know, Nosferatu in like suburbia. That's like a good high concept premise. He's a weirdly formal vampire. I don't know. We'll talk about this for its own two-hour episode dark shadows is weird but i mean it is like this where

like the tops trading card freaking mars attacks thing was like people would look at and be like who let them make this this is too weird this never gets past the net usually right and like that's what dark like they were just letting him do it like because they were like whatever it's three o'clock in the afternoon i don't care what you do like letting him do it because they were like whatever it's 3 o'clock in the afternoon I don't care what you do just make sure you fill the time

Warner Brothers had the confidence of like this is a four quadrant slam dunk right like they made this movie sure especially because Burton's weird shit

had become so big where they're like it's the director of Beetlejuice doing a sci-fi movie like everyone's gonna love that and then people were

just like no fuck you they were very angry we're gonna talk about the box office later but like you know it came out at christmas no one wants to see this christmas i saw this film they also didn't want to be embarrassed for liking independence day sure maybe that's part of it right like it's like there's been this switch flipped no one wanted to admit like oh it was kind of dumb yes it was but i was into it when he gave the big speech and then Randy Quaid. There was famously that year,

Time Magazine did a cover story that was just a weird bio exoskeleton Independence Day suit. Sure, sure, sure. And it just said

sci-fi is back. Uh-huh. And they were like, after years of it being shameful. It was the cover story. And it was this big narrative of like,

sci-fi used to be for fucking nerds and now it's cool and mainstream again. Yeah, it's cool. And you got like, big strong of like sci-fi used to be for fucking nerds and now it's cool and mainstream yeah it's cool and you got like strong guys like it but like x files is like you know humongous right independence day was huge yeah and then you go the next year the star wars movies get re-released men in black comes out like it's this run of sci-fi becoming very yes if you want to look aliens have landed but this the subtitle is sci-Fi Makes a Comeback. Right. You're correct.

It's not even a good, it doesn't look good. I don't know why he's in like a forest. I don't know why the background is green. It's not like we're like, Independence Day famously set in a forest. But it's also, it never went away.

No. They never stopped making sci-fi movies. No, it's very odd. Hollywood pressed a button. Yeah. No more sci-fi. But it was like they sort of acted like okay this is the dominant genre now like the way we all treat marvel movies

and i think it was too soon to like because then uh independence day comes out in july sure this comes out in december and then the following july men in black comes out right and by that point everyone's like we're ready to have the piss but i'm a kid and i'm like i wanted men in black because i was like where is i'm a kid and i'm like i wanted men in black because i was like where is my major sci-fi summer movie like i want that i want aliens and goop and guns like i give it to me it helped that it was will smith it was the same guy who did the serious alien movie a year before where i saw this movie in theaters and like i didn't like that the nice general who has like a phone call with his wife like going to

meet the aliens and he's like happy about it and I don't get when I'm 10 that that phone call he sounds like kind of you know he sounds a little silly he's like see I just I didn't ask any questions and I got this job and then he gets shot and turned into a skeleton right and the movie's like yelling at you like life is a joke everything is meaningless just try to survive everyone's a bullshit artist and we're all gonna die what was the nice alien movie the nice alien movie starman cocoon no no you said he made the nice alien movie the year before oh will smith i'm saying between men in black and independence day oh okay that like he's the same guy who gave you the nice alien movie that's uplifting

is now taking the piss out of it. We can make fun of these. Right. And that movie isn't as sort of like Fabio's an alien. Yes, right.

And that movie isn't as cynical, you know? Yeah. The threat of danger is never as high. But like Sonnenfeld at that point

is very kind of analogous to Burton. He's like a less esoteric Burton. Sure. You know, it was a similar kind of like comedic sensibility. He works with Bo less esoteric Burton. Sure. You know, it was a similar kind of like

comedic sensibility. He works with Bo Welch. Yeah. Yeah. I just, you know, I'm seven years old when this movie comes out.

I'm a child who is like terrified of death. And if I find out that characters die in a movie, I don't want to see it. Right. And like, I didn't see Lion King

when that was like the biggest family film of all time because I was like, but the inciting incident that the dad dies, right? And you said inciting because I was like but the inciting incident that the dad dies and you said inciting incident I said the inciting incident is that the dad dies and like kids

would come back to school the next year with their Timon and Pumbaa backpack and I was like don't you know that movie's about death how well how dare you flippantly wear a backpack where Timon is eating bugs you know this is not funny death is a serious matter a Timon backpack would be very skinny if it was in the shape of Timon it was in the shape of timon it was like it was like it never occurred to me that

the backpack i don't know why my shape of the character yeah you fucking beta cock hey right yeah we're pwning you now david i'm now a jock it's the first time pwning has been said so like in the years i'm pwning you so hard Paul and I are best friends and we're pwning you and we're cool and men respect us I'm such a backpack noob we're an NPC I saw you tweeting

all those insults fucking crack me up so bad NPC is the funniest thing in the world I didn't know that was a thing it's relatively new. It's great. Like, they keep, so they're basically saying, like, you're like the shopkeeper in that video game. Yeah, exactly.

Like, you've only got four dialogue options. You're programmed to support my narrative. Yeah. I'm the only one who has agency in this game. Yeah. Oh, boy. You don't even realize you're not making choices. All right.

It's the new version of, like, you sheeple. choices. Alright. It's the new version of like you sheeple. But by calling someone an NPC you're outing yourself as a major dork. A dorkus. Big dorkus. Dorkimus Prime. The backpack

for the record I think had a sort of basic kind of leaf like a sort of basic like kind of thank you please it was like a leaf like a sort of flora and fauna sort of jungle pattern but then a big patch

in the center that said like Timon and Pumbaa we eat bugs or something like that it was like I like that it's very direct

bugs a la carte their mouths were full of bugs truly that's what I remember and I was like I cannot believe you're wearing such a morbid backpack.

And this kid was like, it's Pumbaa. He's fat. He eats bugs. What are you talking about? Wouldn't see it. Weird conversation. Was terrified of this movie

because I knew it was going to be filled with death. Sure. I didn't like any movie that had these sorts of stakes in them. I didn't like any sort of invasion movie or anything like this. I was like,

it's a comedy. It's Tim Burton. He's like a cartoon guy. Sure. And this guy calls me up on the phone, dad's friend, describes all the death scenes

to me. And I remember sitting there watching it and I like loved it. Right. It was so on its wavelength comedically and started to get like thrilled

by how much it scared me. Like it felt like being on a roller coaster or something. Where I was like, you were kind of white knuckling it. All this is upsetting. Like any story that had

like Frankenstein-y elements, anything supernatural, anything where people were dying and the shit like Pierce Brosnan's decapitated head. That's pretty weird. Not just that,

but then he's surrounded by his own organs and things like that. The fact that he's, the neck is still dripping blood even though it's, it's kind of a sort of like

steel bar. Right, right, right. It's kind of weird that he can have a conversation but like the visible stitching on like the weird Sarah Jessica Parker dog hybrid like this was the movie

where I was sort of like I'm I'm kind of learning to own everything that scares me what was was that a reference to the cards because no it that's not in the car it does not need to be in the movie at all so insane it's so crazy and that was the moment just for crazy there need to be in the movie at all. And it's so insane. It's so weird. It's so crazy.

And that was the moment. It's there just for craziness. There are certain things like the burning cows that are right out of the cards, like the big sort of robot monster thing that they're in. But no, at no point does a fashion TV. That was the moment when my dad's friend Ira, speaking to me on the phone, describes that. And I go, well, fuck it. This sounds scary but

i need to see this where he's like and at the end the two decapitated heads kiss as they're sinking into the bottom of the ocean i'm like fuck it i can't imagine what that looks like how can you be not on board with a movie that features that scene again right do you know what i mean right that killed me that the heads are rolling back and forth and they eventually kiss i'm like yes this is this is hilarious it is it's a very good mockery of that like titanic the ship is going down and it's so weird and great it's it's so good it's so good and i think there is a weird earnestness like he takes their kids very seriously they're very cute you're kind of rooting for them i was flirting with you and I hoped that you would like it.

Yes! I like that she's kind of good at her job. She's sort of scooping her dumb boyfriend with his newspaper. Michael J. Fox is an asshole because he doesn't see that she's good at what she does because it's not quote unquote serious.

In fact, Pierce Brosnan is like the chief of science for the United States of America, despite being like a natty British man. And also he's stupid. I mean, I love the guy, but he really thinks these Martians are on the level. But he also sees like game recognized game.

You're very good at your job. Sure. Yeah. Here's like a big difference between like the way this film was marketed in America and the way this film was marketed in America and the way it was marketed overseas where it does significantly better

is the poster here is just all the weird alien brains right and the one Martian's poking up and it's got all the names and it says

nice planet we'll take it and I think people don't know what to make of this right and then the European poster where it did really well they were just like here's all the weird imagery

it's Sarah Jessica Parker's head on dog it's the spy girl wow that's a much better poster and it did well there and it was like here's the gonzo like fucking like insane throw it at the wall i don't know how you don't include that sarah jessica parker will be on top of a chihuahua like that like that's you should put that in your post that gets you in the theater you're gonna do that right like you're gonna spend the money yeah they actually did it of course as we all know of course yes they put her on a 2-0 they took her off obviously you know and sir jessica parker was a local hire and they made her pay for the operation that's right yeah uh but yeah and also she did get some money back because he was dry ice a couple times that's correct and then the lisa marie thing right yeah which is a weird creature right and that's like right apex tim dry ice a couple times. That's correct. And then the Lisa Marie thing. Right. Yeah.

The weird creature. And that's like, right, Apex Tim Burton, where like, he's like, Lisa Marie is his weirdly silent girlfriend who appears in like

nonverbal roles in all of his movies other than Ed Wood where she just speaks in a flat, like sarcastic monotone. But she's like this weird piece of art dressing

in his films and then she's always on the red carpet with him in like these insane proto Lady Gaga outfits. I've always liked her. I always have too. She seems really cool. She seems very

cool. Also, apparently, Rebecca Broussard, who was Nicholson's girlfriend at the time, plays one of the hookers. Yes. Barbet Schroeder plays the president of France. There's so many weird castings. I didn't know that. That is crazy. Everyone wanted to work with Burton.

And then you get Joe Don Baker, who is the original Buford Pusser in Walking Tall. It's all these people. Oland Jones. Who is one of Burton's favorite stock company character actors. And it's right after Ed Wood was his previous movie. Ed Wood's his previous movie. Which is one of my favorites i love that movie yes and um i remember that being really uh especially with i think hollywood people that movie was very resonant i think it's the best

film about filmmaking ever made yeah and i feel like most people i know who are in the industry go like that and bowfinger are the two that sum it up but bowfinger makes me kind of hate the industry and edward makes me kind of hate the industry and Edward makes me kind of love it. I don't know LA that well but it always felt like a very good LA movie like just about like living in a little house in LA. You know what I mean?

I think it was the first time I saw a Hollywood movie because I saw it when I was whatever a teenager you know where it's like oh yeah they're not they're just people they just live in little houses and they have cars and shit. Live in job to job, gig to gig. Exactly. I love it.

That's certainly my favorite Burton. It's his most humane and wonderful movie. But it was his least successful film ever. Right, but it won Oscars. It won Oscars, but didn't work commercially. Certainly was respected for, and people were like, oh, maybe Burton's growing up. Maybe this is the start of him. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it was his least successful film commercially. Certainly was respected for and people were like, oh, maybe like Burton's growing up. Like maybe this is the start

of him like, you know, he shouldn't be surprised that it was his least successful film commercially. This black and white movie about the friendship between a cross-dresser

and an heroin addict. A washed up, mean, Hungarian heroin addict. Yeah. The tagline for the movie is, his films are bad. And nobody is crazy. If you actually take a close look

at the numbers you have to do a deep reading it did not outgross batman right hollywood accountants look we're just trying to have fun but i think that was another thing was like all the critics who kind of like you know to a certain degree tim burton was treated not exactly the same, but I think a little bit like early Spielberg where they were like, why does he keep on making these infantile movies? Right. Why is he so caught up with this genre stuff? Why is it always about the suburbs?

You know, like all this sort of shit. What did the suburbs do to you, Tim? Leave him alone. Right. And like on a very, very small scale, I think they were like, oh, they made like a black and white, like kind of artsy human like adult movie. It's like, this is sort of a Schindler's List. Like, what's he going to be like now?

And then he makes like his most insane cartoonish movie right afterwards. It is a funny reaction to Edward, yeah. I mean, it's hard to talk about the plot of this movie because it is so fractured, but I do think of films with sort of ensemble satellite storytelling like this, it is one of the most balanced. I feel like this film is very well structured in terms of even the people who don't appear for 40 minutes.

You feel like you're keeping abreast of all the threads. Everyone feels very well characterized. It takes a good half hour before the Martians start killing everyone so it's like you know by that point you've been introduced to everyone they're very easy to get to know they're very big characters the performances are really good but you get all the little details of like

everyone's sort of behavioral quirks I mean just like watching everyone watch the first televised speech by the Martians. Did the international sign of the donut. That's the funniest line in the movie. That kills me.

The other one I like is when Lucas Haas is later with his co-worker at the donut shop. And he goes, why are they doing this? And she goes, maybe they don't like humans. It's also good. And she's still like that delivery is perfect because it's like yeah this might be an idea i don't know i'm not saying i this is what i think i'm saying that this is a possibility they do keep mowing us down like this movie is just like he's so in control of like the sense of comedic contrast. Yeah. And there are also so many like incredibly funny edits in this movie.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like these perfect like, I mean, where you see his animation background coming in of like, this is the exact timing to cut to this reaction shot of this face. Yeah. Where like you're watching General Casey with the dove and everyone, and then it turned to chaos on TV and the first cut back to Nicholson. And close.

And they're like watching on the couch with like their TV dinner trays, you know? And the animation is really funny. It's really funny. It's really funny. It's 22 years old. It looks pretty amazing. It looks great.

It looks great. And I feel like it's aged into the equivalent of stop motion. You know what I mean? Like the way they move, when they're carrying people up the little ramp to the spaceship. But their reactions to things when Nicholson does that speech and the alien gets choked up and everything. It's tiny little details that are so well rendered. The performances are really good. I mean, that's the other places animation background comes in as a real strong suit.

I like it when they're in the ship being goofy too. And they're kind of like, you know, one of them's banging on a console. And they're like laughing around. But that's also the ultimate joke of the movie is the humans still can't figure out how to read them. And we're all like, we got these guys figured out. Like as an audience, we're like, I understand them behaviorally. They are malevolent children. I understand them behaviorally.

They are malevolent children. And all the weird rules that are sort of established of their lives visually of like, on the ship they all walk around in speedos. Then this weird sort of factory press machine that gives them the suits.

All their communications. Their ticker tape machine looks like a roll of condoms it does look like a roll of condoms they're horny too they're really horny horny jokes

they like these sort of experiments just for kicks yeah everything's just for goofs for them things like the little factory thing or the weird balloon

that sucks up the nuclear bomb there's like pure Looney Tunes that's like Chuck Jones and then like the whole fucking Lisa Marie section is just like such good physical comedy.

That is the best part because I like that their idea of walking is that sort of weird swaying hand motion. But then there'll be that bit where when he looks away, then she turns into like... She creeps in. Like Elmer Fudd.

Her hands come up like claws and the second he looks over, she's back into elegant. This movie is so bizarre. So good. she's like back into elegant like this movie is so bizarre oxygen chewing gum the fact that her purse is clearly uh shaped like a ray gun like all that stuff i just found so fucking funny as a child and like demystified death for me in its own weird way where i was just like i moved from like being like terrified by the specter of like, I will die 80 years from now. Like I wake my parents up in the middle of the night

and be like, but you're telling me in like six decades, I'll be dead. Oh no. And they'd be like, don't worry about it. Live now. They'd be like,

you're worried about this shit. Like go to sleep. I'm worrying about this. And this movie for the first time, I was just like, I don't know. What are you going to do? It's all meaningless

that's fantastic it like shifted my entire world view this film wow yeah truly that's amazing this was the one

where I stopped having like death nightmares and I was like what are you gonna do about it glad I was here and you learned about Tom Jones right I was introduced to Tom Jones

through this movie huge for me I referred to him as my favorite musician for a year after this one what I made my parents buy Tom Jones albums I mean you know for me. I referred to him as my favorite musician for a year after this one. I made my parents buy Tom Jones albums.

No cultural context. I didn't get who he was. The last shot of the movie is him singing to a bunch of animals. I thought it was the funniest thing in the world. The last shot. I was wondering if he was going to sing. It stops right before he sings. It's him sort of gathering the animals around him. I love that they made him

so noble that he runs off stage and then he's telling everyone else to leave. Like, you have to get out of here. Instead of just privately running for cover himself. Tom Jones. Where is, like, why is Tom Jones, is he like a punchline at this point? Is that why they're doing it? Or he's just like a Vegas guy? I think it was because of Vegas.

Yeah. I think it was because of Vegas. But also, like, Jonathan Jem said that like Tim Burton really and a good get too you know a good get yeah

Jem said that Tim Burton really like co-wrote this movie and didn't ask for credit and I think he was a little more hands on in the script actually at the typewriter

than he has in some of his other films and a lot of those influences feel like well these are the guys he like grew up watching like he watched a ton of like

Pam Grier Jim Brown movies and that's why he put him a ton of Pam Grier, Jim Brown movies. Pam Grier is so much fun in this movie. The year before Jackie Brown. Yeah, right. This is like the beginning of her comeback. Another weird thing I found in the credits that one of the little kids,

one of Pam Grier's sons, is Ray J. Are you serious? The littler one or the bigger one? You can tell because half that height is penis get out of here good god i'm sorry that you had to hear that paul i mean what are you gonna yeah no you're right of course it's ray j here yes well no it never occurred to me as i was watching the movie well that's ray j me neither well yeah you might feel a little weird being like,

what is that kid, like Ray J or something? What's weird is when I saw this movie, I didn't know who Jack Nicholson was, and I was like, oh, Ray J's in this picture. Like when his name came up in the opening credits, I was like, oh, Ray J, he who appears on Nickelodeon game shows with some frequency. Oh, see, I don't know.

I didn't know Ray J until the sex tape. Like I had no idea who he was. Look, Ray J is Brandy's little brother right yes he's in Moesha right was that the show so all this stuff would be like after my time right and then they sort of positioned him as a rapper sex tapes are timeless of course they're for all of us transcend generation yeah exactly um no he was like brand they were trying to make Ray J happen yeah so Brandy doing all of her stuff would be like,

and here I am with my brother Ray J. Ray J took matters into his own hands. It's like, I know what to do. It's not the only thing he took into his own hands. There we go. No, those are the people who jumped out to me watching this film. I was like, oh, Ray J.

All right. Anyone else in the, yeah, I mean, Sylvia Sidney as the grandma, just I liked seeing her because we did Beetlejuice very recently and she rules.

She's so funny in this. I like when she's like, I'm not that old. I bet you remember the invention of the train. Because they play this bit of like, oh, she's like a scene all Lay doesn't know

what she's doing and every time anyone treats her that way, she's like, you fucking asshole. Shut up. Yeah, Barbette schroeder did not notice that credit the first time she like early jack black yeah as one of the first he's funny yeah that's a funny scene um that you know when he's right we picks up the flag that that's it it is i do think it is a movie that is pointedly like you know uh poking fun at the pomp and

circumstance of the White House and like you know you got the Steiger character and the Paul Winfield character where he's like this great sort of diplomat this man of peace and Rod Stucker's like blow him up like the whole movie and both of them are wrong and you're cross cutting from that to Vegas I'm sure Burton thought that was like the perfect

mirror image right it's just like this absurd cowboy man and he wanted you know that big thing they blow up that's a real demolition of a real hotel that was a real hotel in Vegas like some weird old hotel that Burton I guess thought was so terrific because it looks like a space needle and they were going to blow it up anyway and he was like we gotta wow that's terrific i know i just love the first time he's like on the phone when he is seeing out of his like peripheral vision that aliens are being announced on television right he's just coincidentally been developing this hotel and the guy just immediately goes like well this is gonna be a big boon for business right like aliens are invading like you see the hotel get finished as the movie goes on and it doesn't go on for very long in terms of the timeline. But that he's still in like the investor meeting with like these Saudi Arabian princes. And they're like, oh. Yeah.

It's funny. Oh, it's always funny. Look behind you is always funny. Right. Like it's just like, you know, Annette Bening is going like, this is the message that like the universe is trying to tell us. Jack Nelson's like, this is going to be huge for business. President is seeing it as like, this is like the thing that makes me a great canonical businessman.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's got to be, the speech has got to be real good. Right, and the only people who come out of it looking heroic are the people who just look after one person. You know, like Jim Brown's trying to get back to his kids. Lucas Haas is trying to take care of his grandmother. I mean, I remember the reveal of Jim Brown at the end of the film was like fucking pumping fists. Like the most excited I've ever been in a movie theater. Was anyone else excited in the movie theater?

I remember the theater cheering. And my dad was like, that's one of the great moments in film. We would talk about it all the time. That's one of the great moments. Yeah, he was like. That is quite a marker to throw down. I think the line my dad said was, it doesn't get better

than that. He would like, describe it to people. Like, my dad's friends would come over to dinner and he'd be like, and you think Jim Brown's dead? And the plane's

flying overhead? We get it. I mean, this is not the first time a movie ever did that. But the visual language of that sequencing of shots where it's like,

okay, you see them pushing the Martians out of their apartment. He's got the Pharaoh outfit on. Yeah. Right, no, but first you see, like, okay, you see them pushing the Martians out of their apartment. He's got the Pharaoh outfit on. Yeah. Right, no, but first you see like Ray J and Pam Grier

and the other boy who's young Michael Jordan from Space Jam is weirdly an actor we've covered like four times on this podcast. There's another movie he's in. But you see them

pushing the aliens out. Then the camera pulls back to see like, oh, the entire half of the building is gone and now they're dealing with the wreckage, which is a kind of a fun reveal.

And then that fucking like fist pumping moment of like Egyptian sandal comes down, squishes the brain. I mean, it's like, he made it. It's like watching your son

score a goal in soccer. That's what it feels like. It was the only two things my dad ever talked about. I was so proud of you and I was so proud of Jim Brown. Like seeing them do a play and remember all their lines.

Nope. Not like that. Right. And I said to my dad, I was like, he's an athlete and you proud of Jim Brown. Like seeing them do a play and remember all their lines. Nope. Not like that. Right. And I said to my dad, I was like, he's an athlete and you liked him doing some acting. And he was like,

I'm a Griffin. He's a good actor. Is there anything else you want to talk about before we play the box office game? I really enjoyed Annette Bening in this movie. Yeah.

I've never seen her. She's so rarely a high comedy. Yeah. I've never seen her do a character like that before. Like a character character. Yeah. I love the voice that she was do a character like that before. Right. Like a character character. Yeah.

You know, it was, it, I love the voice that she was doing and it was, it was fun. It was really fun to watch. And she's sort of like, I like all the sort of broken people being set up.

I mean, they do such a nice setup of Jim Brown with like him needing the money, the divorce. He hasn't fully accepted. Yeah. Turning down the Jack Nicholson offer to be like a shakedown artist, like muscle guy, implying that he'd done it before. Right. And then just all the little pieces of the Annette Bening of like, she's in this awful marriage. That was such a crazy detail to me. Because when we first see her, she's like, do you have to drink in front of me to find out it's only three months in and all this shit happens?

But the Tahoe thing, when Jim Brown's like, can we go to D.C.? And she's like, no, why D.C.? Tahoe. They're a cute little team. She's never really done a comedy before. She was supposed to be Catwoman and then she got pregnant she dropped out very late in the game

and that's when Sean Young made her like aggressive her famous video but I think she'd wanted to work with Burt I mean all these actors love working with him I think Sean Young would have been a good Catwoman I think she would have done a good job

well she was supposed to be Vicki Vale. She had an injury horseback riding and then was forced to drop out and then she felt like that was,

I missed the window. I need to get back into Batman somehow. Here's what I know. I gotta be in a Batman movie. Right. That's where it all went. I need that sense of completion. They're only going to make like two of these. I gotta be in a Batman movie. That's where it all went.

I need that sense of completion. They're only going to make like two of these. I have very limited opportunities. He's returning. That's it. They got one actor playing Batman. When he's done, the whole franchise is going to be over. The second Keaton walks, they're closing the book.

All right. So Griffin, with the box office game, we've done this box office. So, Paul, Griffin, he can guess. Do we have to do it? You don't seem into it. No, I'll explain in a second. But so the box office game is I just look at the opening weekend of the movie, and Griffin usually, because he's a little computer boy,

can remember literally what the other movies in the top five were. What an LCB. can remember literally what the other movies in the top five were. What an LCB. But we've done this box office before. Okay. What else came out this week? Because it came out at the same day as Jerry Maguire. Oh, Jerry Mags.

The same day. The same day as Jerry Maguire. One movie that feels like it's tailor-made for people to see during the Christmas season. Appropriately scheduled. Okay. So, but we could do the next season. Appropriately scheduled. Okay. So, but we could do the next week. I don't know. That's all I got for you.

Let's do this weekend. It's been a little while. Yeah, it's been a while. All right. So number one's Jerry Maguire. I gave it away. Okay. Number two is-

What did it open with? $17 million. Which was like genuinely a huge opening at that time. Sure. For a two and a half hour romantic drama about a sports agent. About contract negotiations. How it's rated R. Yeah.

In a pre-Ballers era? Exactly. They had no idea what was on the horizon. When are they going to start the BCU? The Ballers. Because we know

when Wahlberg makes a TV show, it's really just a setup for the major film franchise that will come later. Is he in Ballers? Has like Wahlberg been in Ballers? I'm sure he's appeared in it. I'm sure he's showed up.

I'm sure. Remember when he was in Entourage in like the first episode? He's like, hey, Benny Chase, how you doing? And then he walks off and you're like, oh, he's passing. I weirdly watched him doing an interview. I forget what movie he was promoting, but they had just gotten the green light on the Entourage film. Okay. Because it was some clip that someone was recirculating

of him talking about the fake penis in Boogie Nights. So it still has some virality. Right. And he was like... He's like, who knows if it's fake or real? No one will ever know. Right. He's trying to make it murky and mysterious. If I'd been on that plane 9 9-11, would that be this?

All right. I'm sorry. Go ahead. What's the clip? Can you imagine if he and Ray J were on the same flight? Right? None of that would have happened. Who is it who just told us that they canceled their 9-11?

James Seamus told us that. James Seamus. We interviewed James Seamus. The screenwriter of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Canceled his United 93. Said he used to take Flight 93 all the time. Anyway. He took it once a week because he was going back and forth between LA and New York. He'd teach at Columbia and he'd work in LA.

And he was like, I pretty much had a weekly reservation on that flight. Jesus Christ. And I remember specifically canceling. The amount of famos who didn't get on one of those planes. It's weird. Mark Wahlberg. Mark Wahlberg's fake penis. Wait, wait, wait. Mark Wahlberg wasn't supposed to be on one of the planesos who didn't get on one of those planes. It's weird. Mark Wahlberg. Mark Wahlberg's fake penis. Wait, wait, wait.

Mark Wahlberg wasn't supposed to be on one of the planes, was he? He just opined that had he been. He just wanted. He wished he had booked the ticket. All right. The only person who doesn't say, thank God I didn't go. The person went, Jesus Christ. I wish I was on there.

I'll never forgive myself for not booking that plane. Oh, boy. Also, Brian from the Backstreet Boys' wife. Brian Luttrell's wife. Yes, was supposed to be on one of them. So, I'm glad that I could tell you that. I mean, just think about the butterfly effect and how different our world would be.

Okay. What was Mark Wahlberg saying in the video clip? What was he saying? Help me. He was saying, now I have to actually remember. Oh, he was talking with such confidence. Like, you know,

it took a long time to get all the contracts lined up and I'm so happy we're finally making the Entourage movie. And I'm telling you, you're not going to have to wait that long for the second one.

Oh. He's like, we're going to keep this ball in the air. Right, right. Like, now that we got it, this is a full rebirth. I always wanted it

to be a film franchise. He wanted it to make Entourage. Right, that's what he was saying. He was like, we had to make a TV show to test the concept, to show people it was viable. No one wanted to do the series. But now it's going to be a major fucking film franchise. Did anyone here see the Entourage movie? I did.

I had to review it for my job as a film critic. I have not seen it. It's all right. I can't imagine seeing it. It's no good. I read the script because I auditioned twice for oh that's right Griffin auditioned

for that movie there was a brief moment where they had serious interest in me I don't know why and I auditioned seriously for two roles in the film

the two people who got the parts I auditioned for of course look at me Paul who are the two other actors I'm always going up against for roles

probably for her who come on Academy Award nominee Haley Joel Osment yep probably who come on Academy Award nominee Haley Joel Osmond yep and Kid Cudi

yep and both times they went this is a total Griffin Newman role um I saw I don't remember anything did you see it

yeah I did not see it I've read the script cover cover what did Turtle do he's like he fights Ronda Rousey cool

that's what I remember yeah that sounds really cool I think I remember Haley Joel Osment is pretty funny Kid Cudi I think he's just like

Ari's assistant yes correct he's the new assistant he's like serious he's just playing what happened to Lloyd he gets promoted he's a partner

Lloyd's like president at this point or something I don't know I saw the first season and one episode of the second season of Entourage before I was like, why am I doing this?

But you still unfortunately know what it is. I know too much about it. All the names of the characters. Yes, absolutely. You know about the Murphy group? Yeah. Paul, it makes sense that you didn't see the movie because if you'd only seen the first season and jumped to the movie, you would not understand. I would have been lost, right?

The plot was so complex. Fame often comes with a little bit of complication. You might be on a yacht, but then Emily Ratajkowski's there and you want to hit on her, for example. Sometimes you get two job offers and you have to pick one.

And the effect it has on the rest of your life is microscopic. I did not see the finale, the TV finale, but I heard that, I remember that it aired on 9-11. And the last shot was two planes taking off from Los Angeles for New York. Oh my God. I just realized what Entourage is. Entourage is a choose your ownure book where whatever you choose, it still sends you to the same page. Yeah, right.

Like, there's no consequence for any action. Slap Werner Herzog in the face and turn the page. You win an Oscar! Oh, my God. It's the same outcome as if you go on a date with Jamie King. It's the exact same thing. Number three at the box office. Mars in Texas 2?

Yeah. Is a Disney live-action remake before they did them three times a year. Flubber? No. 101 Dalmatians? 96. There we go. 101 Dalmatians.

Yeah, Glenn Close is all over the box office. Big weekend for Glenn Close. That's true. Absolutely. Now, that was a hit. Big hit. Puppies. Yeah.

Mean ladies. Mars Attacks opened above 101 Dalmatians. But 101 Dalmatians has been in theaters for three weeks. Oh, it's already been around. It's been around. It's doing great. It's going to make like $100 million. It's number four, however.

I believe I struggled. You struggled with this one. Did 101 Dalmatians top out at 100? No, 136. Oh, okay. I was going to say, if it was only at 100. What if it hits 101 and Disney's like, take it out of the airs.

This is too perfect. Got to leave some money on the table. Oh, boy. Number four is also a remake. It stars a huge star and another like huge celebrity. Oh, so one of the people you would say is not an actor. Not an actor first and foremost. It's a remake.

It is a remake. It's a family movie. With a huge celebrity. Were they a musician? Yes, yes, yes. The other person is a musician. Is it The Preacher's Wife? Preacher's Wife.

Denzel Washington. Remake of The Pastor's Wife? The Bishop's Wife. Theacher's Wife. Denzel Washington. Remake of The Pastor's Wife? The Bishop's Wife. The Bishop's Wife. Bishop's Wife. Yeah, Denzel, Whitney Houston. Directed by Penny Marshall? Yep.

Number five is an action film, kind of a disaster movie, with a big action star who's like on the wane. Seriously on the wane. Stallone? He knows immediately, but it's Stallone. 96. He's on the wane. on the way it's the loan he knows immediately but he's on the wane it's a disaster movie uh it's a daybreak is it daybreak you're close daylight what's it called daylight yeah what was that one again what if the holland tunnel blew up and there were like 12 people in there in the tunnel so that's just the loads gotta go get a major sly in a tunnel it is

fun to think about you know know, rather than like, there's a virus, everyone dies. It's like, the Holland Tunnel, there's like a few people he has to go. It doesn't sound that hard to figure out,

right? I think he like, leads them up the stairs. I'm not trying to be Elon Musk here or anything, like, I've built a special. Right.

I mean, only a pedo couldn't figure out how to get out of a tunnel. Oh boy. So that's our fun. Do you think that was the entire pitch was just Sly's in a tunnel? I don tunnel. So that's our five. Do you think that was the entire pitch

was just Sly's in a tunnel? I don't. I saw that movie at theaters. What if trying to get out of something you were trying to get into something?

It's also weird that it's called Daylight because I get the ideas that they want to see Daylight. They want to get out of the tunnel. It feels a little mocking.

It's like hold your breath. Daylight. It sounds like a hold your breath. Daylight. It sounds like a vampire movie or something. I don't know. Are these people like trapped? Why am I asking? Why am I asking?

It's like the cars blow up, so it collapses. So they're in the tunnel. He's got to go through some big fans. There's a fan sequence. Like big whirling fans. Paul, the reason why you're asking is because David, of course, was an executive producer on the film Daylight. Yeah, that's right. I thought it was great to have a fan sequence.

I staged it in the boardroom and they were all into it. Was that Rob Cohen? Yeah, I think you're right. Sounds like it. Rob Cohen. Rob. I just saw Skyscraper for How Did This Get Made, that other movie. That one with three people, not two friends. Oh, yes. Yeah, of course.

That one with three people, not two friends. Exactly. Exactly. And they're not friends. Two of them are married. I think we all know. A long walk from friendship.

They might say I married my best friend, but that's a lie. Yeah. And that movie is mainly The Rock trying to get into a building. Okay.

As opposed to trying to get out of it. It's diehard on the outside? Yeah. Is it any good? No. No. It's not, it's dull, you know?

It's not like, there's a bunch of set pieces, but it's not fun and it's not interesting. And he's not interesting. He has one leg, right? That's his bit. That's his thing. Yes, but it kind of doesn't come into play until the very end of the movie. You kind of, I completely forgot.

You don't even remember. They establish it, and then I completely forgot about it for a long time. Yeah. One other complaint I want to make about Mars Attacks before we're done. Uh-huh. Oscar nominees that year for visual effects. Oh, yeah. There were three.

Mm-hmm. Okay. The winner was Independence Day. Sure. Big movie. Big hit. Yeah. It's got aliens.

You're mad about it. I agree. But, like, you know, it can be in there. Big movie. Big hit. It's got aliens. You're mad about it. I agree. But like, you know, it can be in there. Another nominee is Twister. Sure. Tornadoes. Big hit. The biggest fucking movie.

Yeah. The third nominee was Dragonheart. Like Dennis Quaid dragon movie. Let me tell you. And they snubbed this for Dragonheart. The dragon in Dragonheart looked terrible. Looks awful. Wait, was it nominated or not nominated? It wasn't nominated.

Mars Dex wasn't nominated. Wow. It was snubbed for, I think, Dragonheart. That sucks. Independence Day and Twister, they're getting in. As much stock as you place in these kind of things, I think. I always feel like the technical awards mean

more than the acting awards do you know what i mean like it's well certainly it's great to see when those guys win and they get up and they're on national tv and they're you don't know who they are they never get recognition ever and it it's like the husbands in the audience looking all happy or whatever yeah i think it's also it's it's more provably excellent. Do you know what I mean? As opposed to acting, which is so subjective. It's up to you. Look at these things that they built.

This shitty dragon. It looks like a screensaver. Look at the crappy dragon. Do they have green bones in this movie? Exactly. The dragon in Dragonheart, and I'm not just saying this because it's easy to dunk on something that's 22 years old now. We're talking about a movie that still holds up, right? The dragon in Dragonheart, and I'm not just saying this because it's easy to dunk on something that's 22 years old now. We're talking about a movie that still holds up, right?

The Dragon and Dragonheart looks like he's from a pinball CD-ROM that comes with your gateway computer. And who directed Dragonheart? Rob Cohen. Dragon voiced by Sean Connery? That's right. I'm a dragon. I don't know what he does. I remember him saying from the trailer, I am the last one.

I think he's the last one. He's like, I think he's the last dragon. Isn't it his contract that he always has to be the last of something? Is that like, like Highlander or whatever? Like he's just like,

no, no. There can be only one. There can be only one. All right, so there's two in Highlander. You're right. Don't move. I've withdrawn.

Sorry. No, the effects of Dragonheart are terrible. The effects on Mars attacks are terrible. The effects on Mars attacks are great. And also, there was like,

especially the stuff where they're inside the ship. Yeah. You're like, this is 100% CGI. Yeah. Which is not a thing that people were doing.

Yeah, that's true. There's a lot of integrating CGI elements, a couple CGI characters, but you have these long sequences that are like, it's CGI characters in a CGI environment

holding CGI props. Yeah. Like, it's fully animated. It's terrific. The quantity of the thing alone should have like, it's CGI characters in a CGI environment holding CGI props. Like, it's fully animated. It's terrific. The quantity of the thing alone should have like... Absolutely! Absolutely! Like, all those scenes of the alien armies lined up

in formation and everything. It's so much fun to look at. It is. It looks terrific. It's invented. Like, the person turning into a skeleton looks like nothing you've ever seen since. yes yes no one ever did that effect again a thing that no one else was able to pull off at that time period where the technology kind of wasn't there but and part of it's the sound effects which i think are really good in the movie absolutely they're great you get a real sense of texture and material in this movie

like you're like i know what kind of rubber their suits are made out of. I know the squishiness of their brains, you know? Like the sequined sort of texture of their capes. You get a sense of the different sort of textures there.

It's very visceral for how cartoony they are. What a weird movie. I love it. It's a weird, great movie. I don't know if you do this on the show.

Yeah. I highly recommend this film. Oh, I highly recommend it. I'm glad we got you to see it. Yeah, thank you. It's a thank you. We did a service. Thank you? Yeah. I highly recommend this film. Oh, I highly recommend it. Thumbs up. I'm glad we got you to see it. Yeah, thank you. It's a thank you. We did a service. Because I saw you were doing shows in New York City.

I slid near DMs. It's true. He slid right in. He slid. And I said, do you by any chance have any hot takes on Mars Attacks? Because I knew we didn't have a guest for that one. You pulled a Jerry O'Connell. But then the risk was, you said, I haven't even seen it.

I'd love the reason. Jesus. I apologize. He follows me on Twitter. I could slide into his DMs and see if he likes the joke. What if you slid into his DMs and said, sorry to be a Carrie Worre. You get that, of course. And of course, Carrie Worre follows Ben on Twitter.

So then Ben can slide into Kerry Warer's. We can keep it on show. Sorry to be a Jonathan Rhys-Davies. Was that his name? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Wait, is there a... No, he's John Rhys-Davies, right? And then there's Jonathan Rhys-Myers. Jonathan Rhys-Myers. Yes, you're right. But you know what? The drug actor. The drug actor.

You know what? He is just John. He wasn't Jonathan Rhys-Davies. So yeah, there we go. He wouldn't get the tattoo. The fellowship tattoo. uh the drug actor you know what he is just john he wasn't jonathan the reese davis so yeah yeah there there we go he wouldn't get the tattoo the the uh i know i always thought that's fuck that not doing that is kind of it's weird it is weird right like ian mckellen did it yeah everybody accepted like queen knighted ian mckellen he's very famous and you're john reese davis you're most famous for being the dwarf.

I don't know, guys. That's the thing. The reason why he didn't get the tattoo. He's inked off. His whole body is Sala. No room. Spielberg insists. What if every other film he had done he had gotten a tattoo for and he's like, I'm literally just out of real estate.

Maybe the bottom of my foot. All I got left are my hands. Cute idea, guys. Can't do that because of acting. Yeah. They have to cover it up with makeup or CGI it out. You know what the flip side of that story is? That the whole main cast of Suicide Squad all got matching Suicide Squad tattoos and

they gave them to each other to be like, this is like a bonding exercise. And Will Smith was like, ha ha, pass. And they were all like, yeah, Will wouldn't. Like they tried to present it like the John Rhys-Davies thing where they were like, this is like a bonding exercise. And Will Smith was like, ha ha, pass. And they were all like, yeah, Will wouldn't. They tried to present it like the John Rhys-Davies thing where they were like, yeah, Will wasn't really a team player. But now Academy Award nominee Margot Robbie has a misspelled Suicide Squad tattoo that was probably inked by Jai Courtney.

Like, they all did them for each other. I'm sorry. This is a sickening story. I've never heard this before. Paul is just looking on in astonishment. 100% true. they gave each other they inked each other i believe it was skwad and their director oh no could you at least say like make it very small they're large i mean no because like like you're writing it on a grain of rice well here's the great thing they weren't professional tattoo artists

so they definitely couldn't control squad squad SKWAD that was a horrible idea says Joel Kinnaman that's a quote

wait is he in the movie what does he play he plays like the guy who's like you're suicide squad you're driving me crazy I hate it oh so he's not a member

of the squad he is he's sort of the squad. He is. I mean, he's sort of the leader. He's their babysitter. He's the Emilio Estevez from IDL. Okay. Did he get one? He got one.

He got one. And now agrees that it was, realizes it was a terrible idea. Everyone but Will Smith, who's technically in the squad, got one. Here's the weird thing. Will Smith gave him the tattoo. For Kinnaman. Yeah. So he'll give you a tattoo that looks terrible.

He just literally wrote the word squad spelled wrong on his arm. Why? In like regular print. I wish that that hadn't happened. Right. I just love like Jonathan Rhys-Davies being, Jonathan Rhys-Davies doing the same thing. Jonathan Rhys-Davies being like,

I mean, this movie is probably going to be embarrassing, right? I don't want to have Lord of the Rings on my body for the rest of time. It's bad enough I agreed to do three back to back. I can't believe it. My whole life is going to be this? 17 years later,

the entire cast of Suicide Squad at like a Hilton in like Toronto is like, we're going to want to remember this forever. Right? Oh, no. I'm trying to find who did others, but I can't.

That's really astonishing and upsetting. They're really bad too and they all like tell the stories about like we were drinking tequila and we were like hey do you know how to work that thing probably hurt a lot wow the penmanship is awful because like decent reputable tattoo artists will not tattoo you if you're drunk correct that's what i've heard yes yeah is that they'll say go home and think about this yeah they don't want to deal with you tomorrow being like what the fuck is this like they don't want to handle that i just love will smith being like this isn't my first fucking movie i've done 12 month shoots before whose idea do you think this was do you think it was jared leto's

idea probably i don't know maybe he was like you know didn't talk to anyone though and like lived in a broom closet and would only like scream in esperanto i think david air recommended it as a bonding exercise. Cause his whole thing is like, you gotta be in a cage together. You gotta like, like, I would just love it.

If it was like Adam Beach's idea. If it was like some guy who's in the movie for five minutes, he was like, no, we gotta do it. You're just saying names of people you went to school with. I don't know who any of these people who's Adam Beach. That is vaguely familiar. He plays Slipknot.

Yeah, you know, Slipknot from Zeus. Right, right, he does. Master of Ropes. Master of Ropes. Is that his thing? He's a rope guy. His character's name is Slipknot. He's a master of ropes and cords.

I'm not even trying to be comic book snobby. I've read comic books. Of course, of course. It's like I know comics, but I... Slipknot is one of the most beloved characters in the history of DC Comics. Here's the thing that sucks about comics, right? Is that even if you're into them, if you hear them described, it sounds like the stupidest thing in the world. This movie is so embarrassed of Slipknot that everyone gets an intro, but Slipknot, they're just like, and Slipknot, here he is.

Slipknot's here too. Yeah, right. They literally don't even bother three minutes of Suicide Squad is like musical montage of everyone's case file set to like the worst

things ever done Slipknot's the only character they don't introduce he comes in 45 minutes in he punches a woman in the face

and then dies and he has a tattoo for the rest of his life he's like I'm gonna Slipknot out of here and he tries to like rope away

and his head explodes they reveal the bomb in his brain truly he tries to like rope away and his head explodes. They reveal Nye's tip bomb in his brain. Truly. He takes out like a grappling gun and

uses ropes to escape and they like, they execute a hemorrhage. Right. Like a computer hemorrhage. That's how they control the squad.

Right. He's a plot point. Yeah. Yep. I hope he got the fucking tattoo. I hope like Killer Croc gave it to him

or whatever. It's just like, that sounds like the most committed film shoot where it's like, Jared Leto's sending you diseases in the mail. Yeah, right? Fuck you, dude. Jared Leto revived smallpox. Did you get my rat? I'm crazy.

Fuck you. And then it, like, comes out and everyone everyone's like it doesn't really make sense the movie comes out and they're like I don't know it's hard to follow well this is a great time to announce that

Paul you of course are directing Suicide Squad 2 that's right and you're bringing Slipknot back Slipknot comes back I don't want to spoil how

that seems like a spoiler but we need to see how it happens. Of course it involves ropes. He ropes his way out of hell. His brain was made of ropes. The hemorrhage couldn't kill him. He just reforms his brain. He just got some more ropes.

Stuffed him back in there. Uh-huh. That's your old pitch that's my old pitch yeah and they were like fire Mel Gibson get this guy

they were like Mel Gibson Mel Gibson was in talks to direct Suicide Squad 2 they've gone through three different directors seriously did that movie do well

Suicide Squad 1 yeah it did well did it really it made like 800 million dollars worldwide or whatever but I also I believe strongly

it's one of those fool me once movies oh 100 they got everyone to go see it and they're like but we made so much money it's like you're not gonna get them back don't do it guys guys guys i don't they've already been tattooed by jai courtney once you're not gonna get them a second i was so turned off by the second matrix movie that i did not see the third one paul this is god for you to bring that up this late i remember being in line for the second one at the chinese theater in hollywood and somebody's saying a guy a friend of mine was in line with me and said yeah i hear there's a uh there's a 20-minute car chase in this movie

it's like what is that a selling point i don't want to see a 20-minute car chase paul do you know that you are currently sitting across from a man who for almost 20 years has held the elected position as ambassador of the Matrix sequels. It's 15 years. I love the Matrix sequels. I love them. You can listen to the episode. The world's biggest champion of the Matrix sequels.

I'm the one who explains that a certain character is actually a login screen. It's a great moment in the podcast. That's right. Now, is this a theory or you know this is true? I know this. I know this is true. You watch this stuff like once a week. What happens in the third one?

Maybe I did see it. The third one's like they're- You get stuck in a subway station. That is true. Truly, they're like, you're stuck. Yeah, the squids invade the big city and they're in these big mech suits and they're shooting the squids.

Oh, I don't think I did see that. And like Neo and Smith have a big fight there who's like a bug she's like Vanellope in Wreck-It Ralph the girl is two computer programs

have mated and created a new program that serves no purpose and they're like what is this thing he could do this all day I fucking love the Matrix sequel

he could do this all day and I have not seen that no that and you're like a lot of people that movie made way less than Reload the third Star Wars prequel I have not seen Revenge of the like a lot of people. That movie made way less than Reload. The third Star Wars prequel I have not seen.

Revenge of the Sith. The worst one. Is it the worst one? It is the worst one. In our opinion. Is it really? It is. A lot of people don't think that's true.

And those people are wrong. Every single one of them is wrong. Wow. Phantom Menace is the best. Phantom Menace, they get worse. Each one is worse than the last. I've almost seen it so many times, and then at the last minute, I'm like, I know I'm not going to like this.

Why am I going to watch this? You won't like it. Attack of the Clones is a mess, but it's at least idiosyncratic. Sure. Revenge of the Sith is him doing everything he thinks he should be doing. Right.

It's him tying it all up. It feels kind of lifeless. And he's like, and see, now it all makes sense. And you're like, buddy, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Natalie Portman dies of a broken heart during childbirth. That's true.

She does. So it wasn't childbirth that killed her. It was a broken heart. The robot doctor makes that very clear. There's a scene where he's force choking her and you're like, oh, this is how it happens. This is the first time he's learned the force choke. He kills her. That's what sort of haunts him in his soul.

And it's like, no, she recovered from that, but her heart did not. She's losing the will to live. I didn't realize he was a domestic abuser. That happened in that movie. Oh, boy. Okay. Darth Vader. He's a jerk.

He's not a great guy. Darth Vader, big jerk. He's a big jerk. God, the alt-right's going to go after you online. We should cut that out. Everyone should listen to Spontanean Nation. Thank you. Everyone should listen to Freedom. Freedom is the best. Oh, wait. Spontanean Nation. Everyone should listen to Threedom. Threedom is the best.

Spontanean Nation is over by this point. Really? Fully over forever? I never say forever on anything, but I tend to not. So you're saying the PodF TomCast is coming back. I've maintained that. I've been refreshing my feed for six hours. I've still got the weird little iPod man with the mustache.

Absolutely. But Threedom, yes. Is there going to be more Freedom? Will there be a second season? Yes, there will be. We're trying to figure out now when to get together, but we love doing the show. Freedom is so much fun. Thank you. It's really, it's been a joy in my life to do. Yeah.

To hang out with those guys and just talk. And just talk. Yeah. And it's weird to have known, especially Scott for as long as I've known him, and And just talk. Yeah. And it's weird to have known, especially Scott for as long as I've known him, and still learning things. Well, because it's like he doesn't get to be a regular person. That's true. But I spend a lot of time with him. You're spending more time with him than podcast

listeners. Yeah, but it really is like, it's a real treat, and I'm glad that people have responded to it so much. It's a throwback podcast in many ways, but I'm glad that people are enjoying it. It is also weird that you don't solve any crimes. None. Not on purpose.

Not on purpose. Green River Killer has been captured. We in our first couple episodes In our first couple episodes, totally by mistake, we solved the serial murder. Yeah, we did that. And these other fools are going out about like they don't know who did it and on and jay together have you have you talked

to the serial people not them directly you should tell you should tell them yeah i was trying to book sir send them a link to the episode yeah that's what that's what i'll do to uh serial at npr.com i think sir canning's gonna do our alice in wonderland episode sure let's have a run yeah uh great flat ending Sarah Koenig's going to do our Alice in Wonderland episode. Let's have her on. Yeah. Great flat ending. Yeah, there we go. And like the miracle in the Hudson. It's like we had to get there.

We had to get to just a dead stop. It's a forced water landing. We flirted with it a couple times. We had a couple real high points we could have gone out on. All right. Thank you for doing the show, Paul. Thank you so much for doing it. Thank you. Can I do a plug?

Of course. Yes. Walk away. Is the date you told me, is that a real date? February of 2019. I can give you the exact date. Paul, I hope you're going to plug my birthday. I hope your plug is my birthday.

No, February 10th. Surprise is ruined. Just like a week away from my birthday. Don't forget that in one week's time, Griffin celebrates another year on planet Earth. Yes. Around the sun. And you can come see at the Vancouver Just for Laughs Festival.

Sure. I will be doing another two-man improv show with Mark Evan Jackson, Mr. Jackson and Mr. Tompkins. We did it. This will be our third time doing it. Wow. This will be our third time doing it. This will be our third time doing it. We did it the first time in Toronto last year, and then we just did it in Detroit in January,

and now we're going back to Canada, Vancouver. That is happening. I know when it's happening, and I am not looking it up. I'm building the suspense by letting you know exactly the date. Don't you want to know? I know you do. It's sort of in that neighborhood. Wait until you find out what the date is.

It's February 17th. February 17th. You have one week to get your ass to Vancouver. You have one week to get your tickets, get everything together, and do come out and see that show. It's going to be a lot of fun, I promise. That sounds lovely. And you're always worth seeing live in any form.

Absolutely. Any type of performance. You're one of the best in the biz. Thanks, man. It's a real honor and a privilege to have you on the show. Thank you for having me, guys. It was really a thrill to be here. I hope you had fun, yes.

I had a ball. That's it. I just extended my arms in the air. I had the microphone away. I couldn't tell you I do that a lot. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Ang for Gudo for our social media,

Joe Bowen, Pat Rollins for our artwork. Thanks to Laney Montgomery for our theme song. Go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit. TeePublic for some real nerdy merchandise. And as always, never get a Suicide Squad tattoo.