Blank Check with Griffin & David - Medicine Man with Jamie Lee

Episode Date: March 17, 2024

Oh baby, this one’s a STINKER! Sean Connery finds the cure for cancer but then he loses it (??). Lorraine Bracco delivers all of her dialogue like someone making a comment and not asking a question at a Q&A. They’re both playing scientists - but where’s the CHEMISTRY?? Comedian and writer Jamie Lee returns to Blank Check to talk about John McTiernan’s attempt at a serious adult drama, 1992’s MEDICINE MAN. We spend most of the episode trying to recast this movie to make it somewhat palatable. But the musical score is great! This episode is sponsored by: Burrow (Burrow.com/check) Indochino.com (CODE: CHECK) MUBI (mubi.com/blankcheck) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

["Blank Jack with Griffin and David"] What don't you understand? I found the cure for the fucking podcast of the 20th century and now I've lost it. Very good. Good job. This is a movie about someone finding the cure for cancer and losing it. Like losing it like you lose your keys. Like losing it like-

The rest of his life, haven't you ever lost anything, Dr. Bronx? Your purse? Your car keys? Keep going. Well, it's rather like that. Now you have it, now you don't. I just like imagining every time, keep going, do another line. Just read a line.

Uh, I gave Alka-Shelter to a kid with a bellyache. Just someone standing up quietly exiting the theater. Alka-Shelter! While they're just screaming at each other, people just being like, you know what? Kill them in one bout. I got shit to do, I'm gonna go. One of the wildest things anyone has ever made Sean Connery say.

It was the plop plop fizz fizz that really dazzled them. You can talk, Jamie, but I just like, just join us. I mean. Wow, this movie made way more money than I thought. It wasn't like an atomic disaster. This movie did okay. It did okay. Like, it was a flop, but this is a movie where you'd be like,

oh, it made $20,000 and you wouldn't be surprised. It made money. It made $44 million. You know what I kept thinking, like, from the jump of watching this? I had a lot of thoughts. Oh yeah, I had more than one. But the primary one that I kept coming back to is just like, first of all, a movie like

this would only be like an indie now. Like no one's spending money to make this story anymore and tell it in this way. The other thought was like, wow, like, this was considered a drama and a romance? And it's very, like, sticky, jokey. But because of shows now, I mean, I could name many shows, but we have so many dramedies now that you're like, oh, right, back then, anything that wasn't like, like, shit-, back then, anything that wasn't like shit dick humor

was considered a drama. Whereas now it's like shows like The Bear. I mean, that's technically a comedy. So when you watch this, you're like, this is a comedy, right? And then you look and you're like, they did not think this was funny. But you are right that it has more intentional jokes in it so many than most comedies up in the Emmys.

That's right! The setup and energy of a comedy, it's about an odd couple. They're in, they're fishes out of water. It's an oil and water movie. 100%. Right, they're doing screwball bickering. Exactly, they're gonna yell at each other

while they fall in love. The way she arrives, when she's just kind of like dropped off by, I mean, I don't wanna say, I can't even, it's the line that she says to one of the natives, it's so horrifying. But anyways, that whole thing of her just kind of like, like falling out of the boat and she's just like, like she's kind of arrives like in this messy way.

You're right, it's the two most fascinating things about this movie are A, this is maybe the last moment in history where this is like an A picture for a major movie studio. Exactly. Right? And given that sort of like support and budget and all of that. B, this movie is seven genres at the same time.

In a way where it's like, no, we're trying to make epic movies for everybody. Like this is their swing at making like, I don't know, a classic, right? Okay, I know I'm jumping out of order here. Please, please. But the score, the moment where they are zip lining through the forest, and it feels like, to me the closest thing to that was Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Grey on the log

in Dirty Dancing when it's like, hey, hey, baby. They're like- That's a good scene though. Which is a great scene. I like that scene, right? But also fun, like that's a fun scene. Right, and two people have chemistry with each other. That's right.

And then these two, this is kind of their first moment of like getting along and having fun together. And they're ziplining through the forest, but the music under it is this like grand sweeping symphony music. And you're like, wait, we're supposed to, like, really take this moment seriously. Like, they're filming that scene,

looking at it in the edit with the energy of, this is going to go into all of the Oscar clip packages of the greatest romance scenes. That's exactly it. They're gonna include this, and there's a real, like some of, not even the worst movies we've ever covered on the podcast, but some of the least essential or most forgotten movies

we've covered on the podcast, there's a very telling line you will find on their Wikipedia, which is just like, the Wikipedia entry is really dry, pretty empty, and then there's one line which is like, although the score is quite well-liked. And it's like, this is a movie that's legacy is 90%. I don't know, ending, like, people had the CD and played it in their car.

Maybe. Maybe? It's probably a score that sounds better out of context. That's what I'm saying. Out of context, you're like, oh, yeah, this is like sweeping, Jerry Goldsmith. It's fine. You can imagine someone in the edit being like,

we need temp music, and they're like, you know what's good? Jerry Goldsmith's Medicine Man score. There's always that thing too, like movies where like white people go to a foreign land where the score reflects that in such a dorky way. Where it's just like, it's like bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop. Like it's always like this xylophone experimental. And you're like, you don't do that

for any other kind of movie. It's just this. No, it has the score of you've traveled to the quote-unquote exotic part of Disneyland. Yes, yes. You're on the jungle cruise now. The forbidden kingdom, yes. 100%. It's like you're there. Oh, my God, it's so true.

This movie's fascinating, but also it's like... I don't even know if you can call it a twist I mean the earlier twist in the movie is that she's actually not from Brooklyn. She's from the Bronx, right? I mean, I had to turn the TV off and take a walk around the block The movie like rattles in the wake of that reveal but the other twist is that he's like Not a white savior because he's basically... He's the Oppenheimer of the jungle. And he's like, trying to remake himself as a savior

because he can't get over the devastation he caused. Do you think they were like, making this movie and they were like, call Gaff. There's gonna be a run on khakis after this comes out. Like, we're gonna... There's gonna be... Ponytails's gonna be a run on khakis after this comes out. Like we're gonna, there's gonna be, ponytails are gonna be back. We need to set up a ponytail spread at Vogue.

Like that's what they were thinking when this movie come out. It's gonna be out in February. I think they'd given up on it, maybe, actually. Just circle back to Sean Connery's look. I mean, there is like an identity crisis happening where he is a male lead. I would say most people found him handsome.

Yeah, a handsome male lead. But then they kind of like frump him up, which feels more modern. Like not every male lead looks the same now, right? Or at least they're not sort of looking classically handsome all the time. Yes. Or if they are, there's like some kind

of metamorphosis that gets them there. Like, you know what I mean? So it was like, that to me was even just odd. Like, the way they made him look kind of just like a dorky dad who's been in the jungle a long time. Yes. It's... It's like, he's the lead.

Like, I don't know. It felt so unnecessary. It's so fascinating because Connery basically stayed some sort of sex symbol throughout his entire career. Like I feel like he's often cited as an example. He is! When actresses complain about like the second you turn 35, you're like put into a mom bucket and Sean Connery still gets to play sexy in his 70s. That's right.

Like he's such a good example of they don't try to make him look younger. They're not pretending he's younger. That's what I was trying to say Not at all 61 in this movie and he basically retires ten years later, right? Like entrapment is basically like this ten years later, which is a sexier movie than this Entrapment is seven years after this and his co-star is 15 years younger Wow, and his co-star is like a sex bomb in that movie. She's in the Lycra and she's dodging the lasers.

The dance with the lasers. This one, at least, Lorraine Bracco's like, ah, geez, can I get a shower? I can't do her. But seven years later, they're doing, I think kind of nailed it. That was actually dead on. Do you know that she plays a, what is, is she a seagull?

Okay, a seagull. One of the worst movies we've ever covered on this podcast is a movie You might not even be aware happened Robert Zemeckis is live-action Pinocchio remake that went straight to Disney plus right. She's a seagull in which Lorraine Bracco It's the only other Lorraine Bracco performance. We've covered on this podcast Lorraine Bracco plays a character They added just for the Pinocchio remake who's not in Disney movie, who's like a gossipy seagull. And it's Lorraine Barocco with this accent, but basically sounding like she chain-smoked 15 packs of cigarette right before every line reading.

She's like, I saw you at some Pinocchio. He's there in the water. Some whale was trying to eat him. And Tom Hanks' estruppetto was like, my boy, the Pinocchio. She's like, yeah, you should go find him. She probably does. I mean, she's got a distinct voice. She always has. I love her voice. I do too.

Maybe she's been smoking all these years to just kind of keep it where it's gotta be, right? Sure. To kind of keep the Marge Simpson in it. She's definitely, she's getting Margie-er as time goes on, I think. She was pretty Margiegy even as a young. Oh yeah.

She's just getting, yeah. The marginess just keeps going and going and growing and growing. Yeah, no, she's, maybe she's gunning for the throne when Kavner steps down. Also, just a circle bag. She's only two though, I mean. That's true.

She's almost 70. Oh, she? Lorraine, I mean, she's been around. This promise is 25 years old almost. Yeah. I don't know why I'm like, I kind of fixated on this idea of like the sort of like the two leads. Like it's very interesting.

Again, it feels like you can really feel that we're moving from 1999, 90s into the 2000s. Also in that she's, you know, I feel like if this movie were made even just five years before, it would have just been sexier, steamier. Yes. Like this is not a sexy movie. It's almost aggressively unsexy

and it doesn't feel like it's trying and failing. It's almost doubling down on like a real like dorky, unappealing, like they're really trying to be like the worst versions of themselves. Like they're not trying. I know they're working together and that part I really, I like that they are like, no, these are colleagues. Like that to me feels modern. But then you're so used, your brain is so trained for the movies that came before it to be like, okay, but when does it get hot? And it's kind of like, never? Not only does it not get hot,

but like 30 minutes into it, you start going, I hope it doesn't get hot. Right, that's the thing. They always are like, don't think that's what you're signing up for because we are not delivering on that. You're like, this type of movie is training to think it's gonna get hot.

And with the way this movie is actually progressing, I don't want to see that happen visually. I hope they never, I hope nothing ever happens between the two of them. And it is pointedly a movie that cuts away from the one kiss at the end in a way that is fascinating. You do wonder if there was a focus group that said like, oh.

All the way down. Right, they were like, oh, we are not ready for these two to like do that. No, because they lean in towards each other. It goes in a slow motion. It cuts away when they're an inch away from each other's mouths. It feels like you say like a real knob swing moment, which means, to be clear, just people saying no, thank you.

Like, please do not show us that. Right, the opposite of what people, of what the studio wanted, which was audience members swinging their knobs around in excitement. That's what you wanted to clarify, right? Introduce our show. This is blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David It's a podcast about filmographies Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects They want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce through the Amazon, baby

This is a mini series on the films of John McTiernan. It's called You can do it Pod hard with a veng cast right okay? Today returned to the show a Long overdue second time guest there was a reddit thread of people who've only been on once they should have on again and It we we just kind of realized recently a this was not a movie a lot of people were've only been on once, they should have on again. And we just kind of realized recently, A, this was not a movie a lot of people were clamoring for. B, saw this guest was back in New York City,

and I was like, right, we should reach out again. Jamie Lee, credible comedian, from Crashing, writer on Ted Lasso. Hey guys. Do you have Emmys now? Do you have physical Emmys? I do. How many you got?

I have two so far. I say so far, because they're coming up again in January. We'll see. Yeah, you're in a manifest. I mean, come on. I'll say this. A thing I noticed, you got quality screen time at every award show where Ted Lasso won.

You were just always right there. Your IMDB picture is you holding an Emmy. Yeah. Really? Wow. Okay. It never felt like you were doing the like Alyssa Milano trying to get into the frame thing, but I was like always right there.

Oh, it's so funny you say that because when I was, so first Emmys, I was seated in the back, very, very back. There were two tables, one that was right by the stage and then one that was in the far, far back. You would never see it. And I was in the back table. And then at the last minute, there was this thing that happened where someone on our staff

who did not get a ticket initially, we finally were able to get them a ticket. Jason, I don't think had a plus one. And so they sat next to Jason and they were like, I don't want to sit there. Like that I can't sit there. That's too much pressure. And they came up to me completely unsolicited. And they were like, will you sit there? And I was like, no.

I'm not gonna sit there. And so then I ended up sitting there and I was like, wait, this is insane. I was right next to him. It was insane. And that swap basically happened right before the award. I wanna say three minutes before we were rolling. Insane.

OK, so you, all right. So how are the ends? So wild. Are they fun? They are. I mean, I think it's a lot of work for anyone going. But especially for women, it's a full day of. You got to put all your shit on.

And I'm not even like, you know, you see these like, whatever, you know, get ready with me with like Reese Witherspoon getting ready for the Oscars. Obviously, I'm not doing that. But like, even just having your makeup done, it takes a really long time. And then like getting into uncomfortable evening wear, and you... It starts at like four, and then it goes until, you know, with an after party

till like 1 a.m. I sound like such a like boring ass person. Like how annoying is it to pee? That's what I'm saying. There's just like a lot, it's just like exhaust, truly the most exhausting thing I've ever gone through. Like I dread just like feeling tired by it. She didn't get to go home with that hard layer.

I know, I know. What do they call the Emmy trophy? Is there a name for her? Like it's just an, I think just like feeling tired by it. She didn't get to go home with that hardwood. I know, I know. What do they call the Emmy trophy? Is there a name for her? Like... I think just an Emmy. An Emily. An Emily.

You know, you get to see Emily. Yeah. But no, I mean, no, it's a huge... Getting dressed is the worst. It is. I hate getting dressed. David loves being naked. Well, I will say...

Sure, but I also just mean... David's like a toddler throwing a fit every time his wife tries to pull a shirt over his head. But like, I think also post-pandemic, like, I don't know if you guys feel this way, and I know we're getting really off topic here. But, but, yeah, I think it takes like more effort to like get dressed up. Like, I enjoy it because it represents like, oh, we're back out there again. We're seeing people. We're doing things.

We're not home all the time. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, we spent two years in sweatpants. So. Putting your shoes on is an emotional process for me now. It is. Just leasing up sneakers takes some deep breaths. Oh my god, duh.

And I gotta tie it again. You have to find something to put your foot up on. Loop, loop. This is done. I know. Oh my god, another loop? Two bunny ears? You have to find something to put your foot up on. Loop loop. This is a ton. Oh my God, another loop? I have to do two of these? Have I said this on the podcast? Would you count the other shoe?

We haven't streamlined this yet? I do bunny ears to this day. Which is embarrassing, I think. You know bunny ears, Ben? No. Well, you know how it's like to tie your shoes, isn't what's it like loop swoop pull or whatever, whatever you're taught? I was bad at that when I was like, you know, four. I was so your shoes, is it what's it like loop, swoop, pull or whatever, whatever you're taught?

I was bad at that when I was like, you know, four. I was so bad at it, I didn't understand it. I was like, this doesn't work. So then someone taught me bunny ears, where you make like kind of two loops and tie them together. Yeah. And I just, that's how I tie my shoes forever. I never like, no one ever later was, it works fine.

Party knot, it holds? Yeah, it holds. Interesting. I do that too. Okay, so we're okay, but you double not right? I double not. Oh, thank God. Yeah single not Your single not yeah, what do you tie your shoes like 40 times a day They sometimes come untied. Yeah, then likes to live on the edge Wow, that is a risk taker. Yeah Jamie the point you're making about this feeling like a movie caught in an interesting transitional point between eras of filmmaking Just to put this in context John McTiernan the guy who we're covering right now in the podcast his first movie

No one sees what is it? It's called Nomads is with Pierce Brosnan doing a very bad French accent, being chased by some punks in a van. Okay. It basically is just a demo reel that gets his foot in the door, although I think he probably intended for it to be more. But it's well crafted enough that studios are like, I guess we can hand this guy money. He knows where to put the camera. We found it pretty boring. His next three movies after that are Predator, Die Hard, and The Hunt for Red October. So he makes three fucking humongous movie star movies that are like kind of culture defining

and start to provide a template for what the 90s are gonna be. Like those movies are 87, 88, 90, I think. And become like, oh this is what studios want to make. I never saw Hun for Red October and I'm sure you guys already covered that. We will have covered it. We haven't recorded the episode yet. What is that about just quickly, the Hun for Red October? Just to give me some context. It's the first Tom Clancy movie and it's Sean Connery as a Russian

submarine captain and Alec Baldwin as Jack Ryan CAA it's basically Figures out have you ever seen that bet you haven't I've seen come for what? Oh, what the fuck are you talking about? I thought you might not have seen you know more movies wrong I like I like fucking I like submarines. Yeah submarines are cool. Yeah, it's like this this Russian guide Yeah, submarines are cool. Submarines are cool. Yeah, it's like this Russian guy captain decides to defect. And he's in charge of a very powerful submarine called Red October.

But it's like a movie that gets thought of as an action movie that's really a negotiation movie. Is that fair to say? Yes. Which is also why I like it. There's not a lot of gunplay in it. It's big character-y kind of stuff. And it's like these two guys sort of circling each other, trying to figure out their motivations until the last act,

they're finally on the submarine together. Okay, okay. Um, but, but is, I mean, a huge... Big movies. Yeah, big. A film that is intended to be a franchise starter, which it does end up being in a weird, circuitous way. It's based off the biggest book at that time.

It stars one guy in his like attempt to ascend to the A-list and then this legendary movie star. And they'll keep making Jack Ryan movies for the next 15 years off of that. So like three movies that are like, this is what studios want. This is the model. He did it.

He did it. He did it. And he, in the very little information that is out there on this film's Wikipedia page, there's the one quote that is from a movie line piece that he did in 2001 before he went to jail. We will circle back to this. Okay.

He did go to jail. And interviewed John McTiernan, titled The Extreme Sport of Being John McTiernan. This must have been to promote roller ball. And his line about Medicine Man was, uh, it was a little art movie with Sean Connery that only cost $27 million. If the press hadn't defined it as an action movie,

it probably wouldn't have been considered a disappointment. Now, I find it fascinating that he thinks of this as a little art movie. I understand if he said it was like a character piece, an adult character piece I did with Sean Connery and it was perceived as an action movie and that's why people disliked it, that holds a little water of like,

I was trying to do something outside of my box. It was sold as a blockbuster, it wasn't. To call it a little art movie, when it stars one of the biggest stars in history It's like made by a major studio put out by a major studio. He says it cost 27 million dollars many sources say it cost 40 Which thing if it was 40 that's more than any of his films had cost up until this point If it's 40 that's more than the budget of red October predator diehard And even if it's 27, it's basically in the ballpark

of what those movies cost. Yeah, I think he's knocking the price down a little. No question. For sure. He's like, man, dig down just two. Yeah. It's a little art movie. It's not, but like... That's insane.

Calling it an art movie is insane. Insane. In comparison to his prior three movies, it's more of an art movie in that it's about relationships and, yeah, man's relationship to nature. But his career had roided up so much so fast that he's like, oh, this is my little art project. Yes.

And it's like, no, this is you trying to make like a big, sweeping old Hollywood, like adventure, romance, comedy, epic. Yeah, you can tell that the goal was like epic. Yes, he wants to make African queen, he wants to make English patient, he wants to make... Anytime someone is in the jungle, going through the brush, just being like, oh, oh, oh, whatever, poked with branches, whatever,

and then they come to that point where they are like, and it's just the water or the mountains. And you get that huge panoramic of like, oh, baby, we're in paradise. You're like, that's Avatar. Like that's, you know what I mean? That's how little art film Avatar. Yes.

But you're right. Like that is something that in and of itself is like you associate that moment with like huge Hollywood grandeur. Absolutely. Oh, they could fly there and send a whole crew there and photograph the majesty. That's not art film.

And it's not like he's like, oh, I'm like Werner Herzog and I just went there with five people and we were there for two years and I lost my mind in the jungle, but we were bootstrapping it. Right, also so many, I guess, extras, or what would we? Yeah.

They also had a lot. Local actors, maybe, depending on where they shot this. That's true. It was definitely on a set, most of it, right? Well, you know what? I've got a dossier here. I've got a dossier. Here's the thing, this is, as Griffin's saying,

one of those movies where the Wikipedia entry is like, they shot it in March and finished in July. Like, there's no information. This is not a movie that anyone cares enough to have learned about and then sat down and been like, let me write a paragraph on Wikipedia. Later in his career, he makes flops that are so big that people study them.

Oh, really? Whereas this is just kind of like, what is that? He made a movie called Medicine Man? write a paragraph on Wikipedia. Later in his career, he makes flops that are so big that people study them. Oh, really? Whereas this is just kind of like, I don't, what is that? He made a movie called Medicine Man? Yeah. It, when you told me that was the movie we were going to be talking about, I was like, I know that movie. I knew it.

I could picture. Video store box movie. Yes. Yes. I could picture it. I vaguely remember it coming out. I posted about it and a lot of people said that it was like a school movie,

that they're like biology teacher or whatever. Like some science teacher would be like, we're gonna watch fucking medicine, man. This movie is quote unquote educational. Wow, I mean, well, there's absolutely no sexual chemistry, attention, sexuality. It is low on. So I guess it's kind of

Really much going on and they do talk about like molecules Look I understand that they want them to have this sort of push-and-pull bickering chemistry Yeah, but they're like anti chemistry in this movie is so severe I was like what would I relate this to the way they're reacting to each other on screen? And the closest analog I come up to was someone filming a Karen yelling at an employee at a store and the employee just doesn't want to be on camera. That is so, God, that is so dead on. Right? It's like the energy of like, she's just yelling at him and he's just like, I'm just, I'm trying

to do my job here. I mean, it's- Lady, I'm not looking to get into a fight. The dynamic too, it's interesting, cause it's the classic thing of like, they start, at the top they hate each other, but by the end, and it's like at the top, they don't hate each other. They are like fighting like they've been married

for 60 years, but not in the cute way, not in the light, but they would never leave each other. Like they've debated divorcing throughout their entire marriage. And that's where they meet. Is this- They're like too lazy to divorce. It's so angry.

And by the way, of course, there's a couple of mentions of like, I didn't know they were sending a woman. You know, there was that, there was like two or three of those. So I can understand that being like fuel for her to be annoyed, but I didn't even feel like she heard that. No. She's just pissed. Her default is pissed.

Angry person. Pissed. And it's not because of the sexism. She's a good actor. I agree with you. She's given good performances. If you showed me this and I'd never seen anything else by her and said, what do you think? I would say, I don't think she's a good actor. She's showed me this and I'd never seen anything else by her and said, what do you think? I would say, I don't think she's good.

She's in a different movie than he is. Yes, it does feel like whatever she drilled down to on day one of like, here's how I'm gonna approach this role. That's, yep. Someone should have been like, hey, hey, this is all wrong, you really cannot do this. Like, this isn't a minor note, this is a let's knock the tower down and start from scratch.

This is a, hey, the design of the Predator isn't working. We need to shut down production for a week. That's exactly right. Even if it takes a week, you cannot just be at this energy from minute one. And if this is what she's doing on day one, you shut down production for a week, you go into like table work trying to find the right energy. And if it doesn't work, you go into like table work trying to find the right energy and if it doesn't work you recast. Griffin I think that they did shoot an order because it feels like a conversation was had. Yeah like maybe it

mellows a little bit. It mellows and it's not and what I was saying before. The first 20 minutes is the most intense. It doesn't get anywhere good. No, but it opens with severity. And you're like, how much of this do I gotta watch? And it's everything is like, oh, oh, she's like so flabbergasted and just like, it is, it's an insane energy and he's not matching it. And I know he's been there longer. She's the one coming in. She's been on a long journey. Like I know all the things.

And also- It still didn't justify that level. Also like movie star wise right? He's in like a decade five. He's giving you this he's giving you this Take Connery aside to be like hey, buddy like this is a weird Everyone knows what he's doing for a default movie star energy is a little brash, right? Yeah ready like a guy who leads with like there's something a little animalistic and scary about Big broad guy he's gonna be a tough nut to crack. He's not gonna let anyone in

Someone to counter his energy not someone who's gonna be angrier than Fighting fire with fire Shooting bullets in a train like he's Sean Connery. This is my other point. Hey, fuck you, man. He's just like, I don't care about you. I'm Sean Connery. He is a bulletproof vest. He does not care what you say to him. It will ricochet right off of him.

He's so confident in his movie star energy, too, that it's just like, it rolls off of him. You feel no effort. He is undeniably captivating. Even when he's missed casting a movie. He's unbelievable. He's a movie star. Can't question this for a second.

He is fully a movie star. And you really see it when she's like,ailing off the rails in her performance at the beginning. I do think it softens and becomes more grounded with him. But in those first few scenes, you're just like, whoa, like he is holding court here acting wise. Yes. It's just wild. Like this is presumably, I mean, this is two years

after Goodfellas, which is her big American breakthrough. She gets an Oscar nomination. This is one of those classic, let's try out to see if they're a movie star things, right? Here's someone who gave a great supporting performance in a serious movie. Let's put them above the title, put them as the second face on the poster, see if they work as a lead.

And it feels like everyone bats this down, and her career is kind of fucked until Sopranos after this. But there's... I mean, you're right. I mean, yeah. I mean, she does even Cowgirls get the blues, which is also a bomb. And then after that... And the same here, she does Radio Flyer, which is weirdly similar to this movie in, like, big director, high price script acquisition,

Hot Script in Hollywood gets the big part and it comes out and everyone's like, what the fuck is this? She's also, she's like the lead of that movie, but it's a kid movie. Radio Flyer was like low-key like quite sad, no? Yeah, Radio Flyer was like the hottest spec script that everyone's losing their fucking minds over and everyone's fighting to get it and all this top talent comes together and it comes out in theaters and people are like, this is really dark and depressing. Why did people think this was commercial?

It's also not good. She's also in that ironic- I can't remember crying when I saw it as a kid. It's like the magic of being a child, Land of Imagination movie where the whole thing is based on they Imagine that their radio flyer wagon is gonna fly them away to space But it turns out the whole movie is them like trying to process abuse Yes, that's right. That's the twist is like the radio flyers just a wagon

Right. That's the wagon but like why does why is there a wagon called radio? I'd like in the when I'm at the playground. I still see radio Questions of the movie you're asking questions of the movie. You're asking questions of the radio flier corporation. Why is it called a radio flier? You know what fucking I think? Wasn't there like animal abuse in it? I might be conflating it with The Cure.

Do you remember that movie? Yes. For some reason in my head, they're kind of similar. The Cure, I think maybe all, I think both movies have Joe Mazzello in them. And they have, it's just like children trying to like. The Cure is about AIDS. It is about AIDS.

And that's Renfro. Yeah, there's Renfro. There was just, I remember there's sort of like the two of them playing together. It's like they can shut out reality kind of thing. Cause reality is like so harsh. It was a thing Hollywood was really into. But for those to be who have two 92 movies,

and Radio Flyer's obviously sold less on her, even though you're right, she is like ostensibly the top-billed lead actor in it, certainly the lead adult. Right, and she's not on the poster or anything. Right, she kind of gets taken down by these two in a way where I'm just like... There's a third movie she's getting taken down by. What's the third one?

A film called Traces of Red, have you heard of it? No. Well, do you like erotic thrillers from the early 90s? Like, you know, basic and stanked or how do you know? In like a nostalgic way. Okay, well, like how do you feel about, like, an erotic thriller starring Jim Belushi? Like, what's your level of interest in an erotic thriller?

She's the female... It's Brocco and Belushi. That's too much. And I'm gonna find you the poster and you're gonna love it. I mean, too much slash not enough. Yeah. Which like, Jim Belushi, the whole thing was famous. There were traces of red in that studio's quarterly earnings

when that fucking movie came out. More than traces, yes. Look at this poster. Stop. This is the most. It's him like fucking attacking her neck like Dracula. Yeah, like this is maybe the least appealing poster I've ever seen in my entire life Like if I'm at in like a multiplex, I'm like I'm gonna actually write physically write down that I don't want to see traces

I've read I'm gonna take out my pocket. Anyway, uh Just make sure that I don't even make a mistake David yes my pocket. Just make sure that I don't even make a mistake. David? Yes? I co-host a podcast. I don't know if you are aware. Blank Check Griffin and David. You actually, you are the other host on. Yeah, don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is the name of the show is Blank Check. People think it must be real cushy being a podcast host. Sure, get to watch movies and talk about them.

Oh, what a nice existence you got. But? They're not considering how much I worry. About? Everything! Well, you do. Are my takes hot enough? Are they too hot?

Am I entering the discourse? Am I leaving out? I forget to mention some important piece of context. And? Did I not consider that one movie I dislike was another person's favorite movie and that was rude of them to hear me say that? And? One thing I never have to worry about when I host

is whether my guests will find their sleeping accommodations up to scratch. Oh, interesting, why? Well, I'm realizing now that this copy is about hosting people at your home, like hosting guests. Something you never do. Right, and I just read this as if they were obviously

asking me to talk about being a host of a podcast, I'm just realizing this in real time, and we're not taking this over, this is the app. 100%, you're talking about Burroughs' new Shift Sleeper Sofa. Exactly. It's one of those things everyone should have in their home.

It's a comfortable everyday sofa that easily converts into a queen size sleep surface. That's a nice surface. Genuine queen size, not a full. Full queen size sleep surface that sleeps two people very comfortably. I've got a Burrow. Oh, you do.

I do. I don't have the sleeper sofa, although I am very intrigued. I do have the Nomad sofa plus the sleep kit, which is another like sleep thing that they are. Sure. Which is really good. The best thing about Borough, I live in New York City, it's hard to get couches David? Through doors and upstairs and so on and so forth. The Borough breaks down very easily and then you assemble it in your house. It's easy to get in, it's easy to get out.

I had a burrow at my old apartment. I miss it, actually. Go get it. Well, maybe. But I'll tell you, here's another thing I like. I know this isn't the one they specifically bought a space to talk about. Throwing a couple garbage bags,

get on the sixth street. You could, you could bring it over one piece at a time, you could. It's easy to assemble, it's easy to disassemble. I recently moved, and I said to the movers, I said this couch comes apart, and he's like, oh, believe me, I'm very familiar with burrows. They are great for moving recently moved and I said to like the movers like, I said this couch comes apart. He's like, oh, believe me. I'm very familiar with burrows.

They are great for moving. You want movers to like you? Yes. Buy some burrows. Here's the other thing. You hear that you go, oh, this is going to look like it's made out of Playmobil or something. Right, right. Oh, it must be junky.

It must be junky. No, you could fool anyone. You could. Anyone but a mover. The thing I was going to say, my burrow, I had in my old apartment, a feature I really like even though they didn't put this in the copy. Yeah, they put like a charging cable You know I'm saying there's like USB ports in between the cushions Yeah, it's pretty clever so that you can plug your couch into they got a lot of stuff like that And you can charge devices while sitting on the couch without having to reach over to the outlet

You know what I'm saying Ben they're all about the thoughtful details Good company and this this shift sleeper sofa, when it's unfolded, it's got layers of cooling memory foam, it's got comfort foam, it's got core foam. You got a nice night of sleep for any guest. It's so easy to get into your home. It's got a painless online shopping experience, free shipping to your door, and of course,

easy to set up, as we said, assembled without tools in boxes you can move yourself. Now, I wanna restate, I myself, as we said, assembled without tools, in boxes you can move yourself. Now I wanna restate, I myself as a podcast host, I'm constantly uncomfortable, both physically and mentally, but this ad is about making sure you are creating comfortable circumstances for guests who may stay with you. Sure, right. That's what they meant, not podcast guests.

No, but you do have a lot of anxiety about your hosting. I do. I don't do it. That's why. Check out Burrough's new shift sleeper. I meant home hosting, not the podcast hosting. It's just to clarify. Check out Burrough's new shift sleeper sofa and all their incredible furniture at burrough.com slash check and get 15% off your Burrough order when you do. That's burrough.com slash check for 15% off your burrow purchase, burrow.com slash check. I obviously do podcast hosting even though I do have worries about it. Okay there, buddy.

She got a Razzie nod. For this? For Traces of Red and this. A split. Like a sort of like a, you had a bad year. This is a catastrophic, like, good fellas, okay, here's a good actor. Three movies knocks her right back down to, like, the fucking minors. And then, yeah, it's like Sopranos is kind of boasting the fact that they've gotten her,

where it's like, we got an Academy Award nominee to do a television show. Because, like, just to finish it up, it's like, yeah, after the Cowgirls got the Blues, it's basically like basketball diaries and riding in cars with boys and stuff where it's like, she's a mom now. Like, you know, she doesn't even get to have any fun. And when Sopranos comes to her, they're like, you'll play the mob wife. You're gonna just give you the Goodfellas role. You're gonna play Carmela.

And she's like, I don't want to do that. I already did that. Can I play the psychiatrist? And they're like, okay. You know, like, like, Because again, they want it right. The prestige of her mattered still on television. Not in a movie. On television, having the Academy Award nomination

within a decade still mattered. And the first season is sold so hard on the therapy, which is obviously a bigger part of the first season than it is the later ones. But the first season, it's like, look, we got Lorraine Bracco on TV. We know you hated her last five movies. She's back. She's awesome. Do you like the S season it's like, look, we got Lorraine Bracco on TV. We know you hated her last five movies. She's back!

Do you like The Sopranos? So I'm one of those people who has not fully seen it. I've seen like two or three episodes. So you don't know good Lorraine Bracco outside of the good side of this? I've seen her, I think of her in The Sopranos in the episodes that I've seen. She's incredibly good on The Sopranos.

Yeah, yeah. So I know she can be good. So I think this is probably The Sopranos in the episodes that I've seen. She's incredibly good on this. Yeah, yeah. So I know she can be good. So I think this is probably just a case of bad match. Bad past is bad directing. And also, like, this script is dog shit. Yeah, the directing, maybe they told her to ham it up. I mean, it's kind of a hammy movie in a weird way. And also, so there's nowhere else

to get any fucking energy from in this movie, because it's just people sitting in a tent being like, where did I put that fucking cure for cancer? But also, if they want hammy, because it's just people sitting in a tent being like, now where do I put that fucking cure for cancer? You know, like it's like... If they want Hemi, then she's the wrong choice. I, I, I just feel, I am so curious who else went out for this. I need, or, or they were talking. Let me see what's in here.

Okay, okay. So, Red October, huge hit. Let's make a sequel right away. They want to make Patriot Games, which does end up being the next Jack Ryan movie. John McTernan has always said, I never wanted to make that movie because the IRA are the villains in it. And hey, maybe I'm not pro IRA, but like I'm Irish American. I don't want to make some movie with like these Irish Republican villains. He's a slightly more politically conscious filmmaker than a lot of the other action guys of this era. He doesn't want to wantonly villainize.

He claims also that's why Alec Baldwin didn't do it, but like with Alec Baldwin, you kind of never know what the real reason for him losing a movie is. When Baldwin gets Hunferred October, it's like, this is your bond. You're gonna play this guy forever. And then he is dropped in favor of Harrison Ford for the sequels.

And there are a thousand conflicting stories about what happened there. Sometimes he says it was his choice to drop out. Sometimes he says that Paramount pushed him out, whatever it is. But either way, it's like there's no direct sequel to that movie. McTiernan doesn't come back. Baldwin doesn't come back. And the other part of it is when Sean Connery gets cast as the villain in Hunt for Red October,

it's like, well, now this is a Sean Connery movie. Now Baldwin has been overshadowed in what was supposed to be his franchise. Okay, okay. So the whole thing kind of, yeah, turns into something else. So he, but he wants to make a movie with Connery. They try to make this movie called Road Show,

which is an adaptation of a novel that people have been trying to make for like 20 years. Like Martin Ritt tried to make it with Jack Nicholson or whatever. But the big takeaway is like, Connery wants to team up with Matarinin again So then he gets attached to a Robin Hood movie, but then Costner's Robin Hood movie gets like You know outtakes it. So hadn't Connery already done Robin and Marion? Sure, but also Connery is in Robin Hood Prince of Theat- look, you know, who cares?

How many fucking times this guy got to tell Robin Hood? I think that wasn't gonna be also Connery is in Robin Hood, Prince of The... Look, you know, who cares? How many fucking times has this guy got to tell Robin Hood? I think that wasn't gonna be with Connery. Oh, that was not with Connery. Okay, it makes sense for McTiernan to want to do a Robin Hood. Just not with Connery. So, all right, aside from... Putting that aside, Karelko Pictures, maybe is sort of falling apart at this point, but the guy who created that, Andrew Vanya, he pays Tom Schulman, who had just won an Oscar,

for writing Dead Poets Society. A career we're gonna have to talk about in a second. Uh, three, somewhere between two and a half and three million dollars, in 1989. For this script. It's called The Stand, uh, the script, the original script. Bad title. That's the name of, of course, a well-known Stephen King novel, so they changed the Stand, the script, the original script. That title.

That's the name of, of course, a well-known Stephen King novel, so they changed the name. But yes, it's about a doctor finding a cure for cancer in the Amazonian rainforest. They hired John McTiernan, they pay him six million dollars. It's a lot of money in 1989. It's money being thrown at the same... It's a lot of money now!

It's more than they make every week. They also, they pay Tom Stoppard a million dollars to do rewrites. So Connery gets ten. And Stoppard indeed gets a million dollars to rewrite the script. McTiernan's trying to convince me this movie cost $27. This is why the movie actually cost more like $40. Of course.

They... But maybe to McTiernan it's like, look, it costs 27 when you take all the bullshit salaries out. Maybe that's what he means. Well guess what, dude, your salary is a big part of that. But like, the idea that you're gonna spend a fortune on a script, like just like, and then be like, hey, let's get Tom Stopper

to fix up this piece of shit script. It's like, why'd you buy it? Yeah, what the fuck are you doing? I just can't even imagine reading like, an earlier iteration of this, and then being like, oh, there is something here. I gotta have it. We got it in Hempsthorpe Hills. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, unless it's like, it just sort of leaps off the page, it doesn't feel like the kind of movie that would leap off the page. It does not. And certainly not as a film of this size. That's exactly right. I could see a version of this where you're like, this is a good adult drama.

Yeah. Let's make this for $10 million. Yes. Not like this is fucking money in the bank. But Radio Flyer was the same thing, where you're like, who reads this abuse script? Right. Like about children disassociating,

and goes like, I think this needs to be on every screen in America. Their taste back then was... Yeah, and they wanted people to feel bad. They did. Feeling bad was kind of synonymous with feeling cool or something. But feeling bad in a very glossy way. Yeah, right.

It's like, can we take American independent cinema is happening all of a sudden. These dark, dramatic movies that deal with intense subjects. So can we make a glossy version? By the way, in the 40s and 50s, there were like shiny Hollywood issue films with giant movie stars that touched difficult subjects and did it in a way that was not uplifting, but had a sort of sweep and romantic grandeur to them.

I just want to, Tom Schulman sidebar for a second. Tom Schulman. The guy works in TV, right? Then he writes Dead Poets Society, which is based on his own life experience in a boarding school. It is a weird one though, where you watch that movie and you're like, well, this is based on like a book

or something, right? It's like, no, this was an original screenplay. Wow, I always thought it was based on a book. And like a fucking rocket explosion. It's about one of his teachers. Sells for a ton of money, he wins the Oscar. Here's his career after that. Okay? The same year as Dead Poets Society, which is his, like, first produced feature screenplay,

he gets a credit on Honey I Shrunk the Kids because he wrote the original version before it was rewritten to be a comedy. This is when it was going to be a serious action thriller called Teenie Ween comedy. This is when it was gonna be a serious action thriller called Teenie Weenies. This is true. Let's move on.

Let's move on. We can't spend too much time. You're right. Then he did Second Sight, which is a Bronson Pinchot, John Lirichet science fiction buddy cop comedy where it's Bronson Pinchot. It's a paranormal detective and a psychic. Okay. Okay. Then, so those are his 89 films.

But now let's look at like, what does he do after he's won the Oscar? After he's had Dead Poets Society. Right. What about Bob? That's a good credit. It's him doing a broad comedy, but with darkness, good people, whatever, right? And people like that movie, right? Like, you know, that feels like a Ben movie.

What about Bob? Is that a Ben movie? Absolutely. It's a house on the on local. On cable a Ben movie. What about Bob? Is that a Ben movie? Absolutely. Except it's like a on-cable-a-lot movie. Yeah, well, because Dreischer reminds me of... Dreyfuss, sorry. Reminds me a lot of my father. So I love to watch a movie seeing my dad be flustered by someone who's fun.

This is Ben's favorite subgenre. It's like Clifford. What about Bob really? It is incredible. It is like an uptight straight man and like an agent of Chaos who drives them insane That's Ben's relationship with his dad. Like John. Yes. Yes. I didn't rewatch what about Bob and it was it was not great I did not like it. It's good. I loved it when I saw it. Yes. Yeah, it is one of those movies I feel like when you watch it with adult eyes, you're like, it's in a weird midpoint between being really dark, or being just aggressively joke, joke, joke.

Yep. But when you're a kid, you're like, I want to see an adult just constantly do bits, like just be a bit tornado. But then as an adult, you're like, oh my God, you are interrupting this family's vacation monster. Yes, yes. That movie is sometimes digging into the psychological reality of it.

Yeah. And other times it's not. Also, we're just in this place now where it's like, oh God, he walks around with a pet goldfish. That's so sad. We don't think anything's funny anymore. Everything is just too real. He does that, right?

He does Medicine Man. In Decent Proposal, he gets executive producer credit on which means he probably wrote some draft of... Right. But you can't really give him credit for that. He doesn't get screenplay credit. Then the only film he ever directs is Eight Heads in a Duffle Bag. Wrote and directed. The Joe Pesci Murder Comedy.

I like that movie too. is Eight Heads in a Duffel Bag. Wrote and directed. The Joe Pesci Murder Comedy. I like that movie too. I mean, look, I will say this, he's kind of a major Ben filmmaker. I've never seen Eight Heads in a Duffel Bag. David. It's such a great title, although it's one of the least commercial titles imaginable.

And becomes a shorthand joke for like, the worst thing you could call a movie. Right, right. Then he writes Holy Man, which is... The Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy,

the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy,

the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy,

the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, the Eddie Murphy, He gets an executive producer credit on me, myself, and Irene. And his last screenplay credit is Welcome to Mooseport. The rare amount of Gene Hackman comedy. Oh, okay, okay. Gene Hackman's Goodbye to Cinema. I just want to, now that we've finished... He made that one and he left Mooseport. Now that we've finished that arc, I just want to circle back

and remind you that his career started with winning an Oscar for Great Poets Society. Wow. But Dead Poets Society is bad. Right? Well, and you love Peter Weir. We're going to have to do Peter Weir because I want to do him so badly. But how do you feel about Dead Poets Society?

It's been a minute since I saw it. I don't, I remember it being very built up to me of like, this is a masterpiece. It's going to change your life. Yep, exactly. And then, you know, I watched it and I was like, I didn't, it didn't stick. I don't really have any seen it like a one and a half times.

I don't really have any scenes that stick with me. There's no, there's no like visuals that I clung to after seeing it. I think of it as like obscenely cheesy. And like, Peter Weir like can give you like autumnal, right? Like he gives you sort of like, it's lush. Yes. But like this, like the movie's kind of sort of horseshit, right? I guess it's so mocked as well, they kind of, you know,

rip up your book, turn it into garbage. Who was the age of the students when the movie came out. Big movie for, right, if you were 16 and 1990 or whatever. Right, that makes sense. I guess. We're going to talk about it one day for sure. Yeah. So, Madison Manning.

Okay, so this big pack, they bring on McTiernan and Connery, like I said, they're pitching it to the press as like, okay, action movie guy, he's gonna pivot to something more adult here. Like, this is his, maybe not Oscar moment, but this is his like drama moment. Because this is the other thing I find fascinating. We've talked about McTiernan being like, refreshingly unpretentious.

Yeah. Where he never had this sense of, like, and now I'm begging for respectability. I want the critics to see me as a major artist. I'm gonna make Oscar bait, right? Like, he's not ever gonna do a dead poet society or a scent of a woman or something like this. Right, he's just doing, like, big, fun, enjoyable films. And this movie does feel like a swing for him

away from like action popcorn, but it also doesn't feel like he's striving for Oscars. It feels like he's just like, I wanna make the type of picture they don't make anymore. Like Jamie was saying, that was the kind of movie that existed in the 90s still. Could be a movie where it's like, this is not explicitly Oscar-baked,

but it's a movie for grown-ups. It's a movie for grown-ups. Right, it was, yes, that's exactly right. It's like, this is something parents will go see. Right. Call the babysitter, Medicine Man comes out on Friday. Yep, that's right. Sally Robinson, who actually gets the credit, and Tom Stoppard rewrite the movie.

It goes from The Stand to The Last Days of Eden, and then it's called Medicine Man. Connery basically says they never liked the script. While they're making the movie, they're still rewriting it. Oh, my God. They spent $4 million! Why did they start filming? The way he puts it, and this is in Premier Magazine

in February 1992, so it's like, this is ostensibly the feature selling the movie. Connery's like, we were working on the script all the time, well into shooting, don't start until you have the script, but they were committed to the movie, Connery's like, we were working on the script all the time, well into shooting, don't start until you have the script, but they were committed to the locations, and after a certain period of time, the tail wags the dog, and here's the killer quote. And you still haven't got the casting right.

So it sounds like Connery probably didn't love his co-star, because there's no other actors in this film. Like, of, you know, of majors. He's not talking about like, one's fucking, one of the, yeah. Tribesmen really suck. That's right. Wikipedia credits four actors, it's Connery, Lorraine Bracco, and two Jose's.

Dr. Ornega, and the fourth person they credit is just government man. Okay. So, Bracco says, this is from her autobiography, which is called On the Couch. is from her autobiography, which is called On the Couch. You're shooting an autobiography?

A little hit. I wouldn't have minded the toughness of the shoot so much if the script had given my character half a brain. She's supposed to be a brilliant scientist, but you never would have known it from the lame dialogue. The original script, the one I'd read and loved, was a lot different from this final script. So maybe there was a good movie,

and Tom Stoppard, that duncece fucked it up. I don't know. He put on his dunce cap and went do do do do onto a typewriter. Or maybe he comes in and he's like, this needs like, you know, some screwball like romance energy. I don't I mean I do agree with her though that like I mean look her performance isn't helping it. I don't feel like this movie ever sells me on her being smart Textually like she's basically playing dr. Vinnie Boombots the whole movie. Yeah, and it's not just because of the The accent is there anything funnier? Vinnie Boombots. Oh my god

That was my joke when the Hassan Minhaj stuff went down. Where I'm like, you know, another thing I'm hearing is, Ronnie didn't even have a doctor named Vinny Boombots. Like, I don't think that guy's real. It's a construction. No doctor would ever get a license if he were that bad. Right? It's just like... It feels like she's just giving false, like, assessments of things, the entire film.

And the only time I actually am like, oh, she does seem pretty smart is when she says she's not qualified. Yeah, when she's like, I'm not a field scientist. When she was like, I'm not a field scientist. I own my failings. But there was like a moment where I was like oh her kind of admitting her her Lack of experience makes me think she actually is really experienced in the things she is experienced in right? We're just not getting to see I know you and so put me in a normal right?

molecular bio bio lab or whatever nice I talk in hushed room tones So some other facts about Lorraine Bracco apparently she was a model and DJ in France for most of the 70s and 80s pretty cool Her film career is good fellows essentially her film career kind of starts late because she's modeling and and I guess DJing for years Then she works in Italian films for a while She doesn't start doing English language movies until like the mid to late 80s and then good fellows like yeah Kind of out of nowhere. Where is she from? She's from... The Bronx! No, I don't know where she might be.

I think she's from Brooklyn? Okay. She's from Bay Ridge! Brooklyn. Yeah. Her father, you might be surprised to hear, Italian. Italian descent. But her mother is English. And her mother was a war bride.

Came over after World War II. Yeah, you know, and then she was a model for Jean-Paul Gaultier in the 70s. Marine Bracco. Pretty cool. Fasting life. Yeah, she dated Harvey, was maybe married to Harvey Keitel, and married with Edward Zolomouz. Both of which seem to be very dramatic marriages

that you can Google too much to get into here. A lot. But yeah, Post-Goodfellas, like we say, she does Medicine Man and Radio Flyer. McTiernan did not want to cast her. Connery wanted her. Interesting. And brought her in. Interesting.

The shoot, again. There's nothing on who else ever would have been in talks or on their list. Because I, at some point I want to get into a conversation of maybe there's no version of this movie that is great, but who does this work better within that role? It doesn't... I'm not seeing any... The whole problem is no one talked about this movie except for like one premier magazine article. After it came out it bombed and everyone just washed their hands of it ever existing. Lorraine Bracco, it looks like she shadowed... It probably got a chapter in her great autobiography on the couch where she shits all over it.

But that might be it. Like, it's not like Conner, he's going back and being like, you know, medicine man was, you know, it was just two degrees away from being good, you know? Like, you know, he's made a lot of bombs. It's also fascinating though, because I remember who it was. It was one of the, it might have been Brian Koppelman,

or one of the screenwriters who's active on Twitter and does sort of like half advice, half old, so-biz stories. Yep, yep, yep. But talked about working with Connery on a script for a matter of weeks in a hotel suite that he had rented in Brooklyn. There was some script that then he was interested in, but he needed to work on it with them. This was sort of a Twitter thread when Connery died, memorializing him. Sean Connery, another obviously complicated person. Yes. You can Google.

But I think it was Coppleman, but he was saying like, there are things in like two weeks of going in every day and working on the script with him for eight hours a day that like taught me more about story than anything else in my career. Like the man had an unbelievable sense of how to structure things, how audiences process characters. Like he really thought big picture about everything. After two weeks he dropped off the movie,

I felt crushed, like I'd failed. And I heard this from a lot of people of like, he does this, he really tests things out. It's hard to get him to commit. You shouldn't take this as, like, a failure. But the whole point was, like, this guy gets it. And he, like, fucking won't go forward until it totally... He obviously has other flops and misses in his career.

Like, League of Extraordinary Gentleman is him openly admitting, I didn't understand the script, but I was angry at myself for passing on Lord of the Rings and The Matrix, so I thought I should do one of these movies I don't understand. But it's like, how does he then... Look, go like Turing Goodfellas. Like, that's his story on why he brings her in here.

On a script level too, it's like, how does this guy not see that all of these pieces aren't working? And I guess he did, and just... tail wagging the dog. Here's the thing, Jamie, have you ever shot a film in the jungle? I have not. Either with or without Shankar. So McTiernan already made Predator and we already did our Predator episode.

And what's in the research of that? It was a fucking nightmare. The jungle sucks. You're getting dysentery. You're getting bitten by bugs. You know, the weather is unpredictable. Had to bring their own leaves. Yeah, like, they forgot that the leaves are gonna fall off the trees, so they had to bring leaves. They go back to the jungle for this movie.

I would never do this. And guess what? It sucked, and they had a bad time. You never hear about anyone having a good time in the jungle, ever. I'm realizing now in the commentary for Predator, when he keeps on saying, like, I mean, I learned things on this movie, it's the next time I went and filmed in the jungle. Predator when he keeps on saying, I mean, I learned things on this movie, it's the next time I went

and filmed in the jungle. And that he's talking about this, right. Right. So he sends them to what he called Tree School to learn how to like, you know. Zip line and. Zip line and bounce around the trees. Sure, sure. Yeah.

Do you think they're going into this being like, this is our hook, like this is the thing that people are gonna talk about, you've never seen zipline photography like this. It did feel like it predated, like, the popularity of that being an activity. Yeah, and the, like, 80s trend of, like, movies having the hook of there's an activity

or a subculture that we're depicting with movie stars. Yep. You know? Like, the range from, like, Lombada to like Cocktail of like, here's a thing that some people are really good at. Yeah, yeah. And we're gonna alternate between movie stars and stuntmen doing it well in a way that now feels glamorous. Yeah, that's so, yeah,

cause it's like there's zip lining, but then there's also, there's a lot of like harness talk. Yeah. There's a lot of ropes. There's a lot of like, here, catch this. Yeah. No, no, trust me. Catch it.

OK? Like, there, yeah. That feels like a very big sort of like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, it's almost like another character in the movie. The ziplines are another character. The ziplines could be third build in this movie. They are.

Above the posters. Yeah. The winch is doing a lot of work. The winch is kind of holding this whole movie together. I mean, in a practical way, yes. But even that, just like the fact that they were like, okay, movie's got a green light, time to go to tree school. Like, our priorities are getting this right.

It's like, yeah, it's not like, guys, like, Sean Conner needs to go work out, because he's wearing, frumpy like cargos and Let's do two weeks of rehearsals to make sure this Chemistry is right. There's no they yeah, I mean, I don't like I don't think they spoke until the first take started rolling Look, I can't be chemists too, by the way Aren't they chemists too, by the way? Oh my God. They should be experts.

It's a great point. It's a great point. He raises a great point. That would have been a great thing of like the chemistry, you know, they understand how to do chemistry in lab, but they will they have it together or whatever. You're saying that should have been marketing. Yeah, it should have been a little marketing. But also the critics could have used that against this.

Totally. Yeah. Somebody should have said, Somebody should have made that point. The only thing this movie can't cook up in a lab is... There we go. That's what I meant. So, Bracco brought her acting coach on set within a week or two. Not a good sign. That's definitely not what you're... It says within a week or two?

I don't think she was there for those first few scenes, I'm telling you. She would have said something. Connery tells Premier Magazine basically, he says I was in the middle of a triangle. I think he's basically saying, McTiernan needed to do something and he wasn't doing it. Right? Like he says, he's got all his toys, you know?

He's got his little videos, so he sees what he's getting on screen, which is helpful to him, but no help at all to the actor. You know, he's basically... I don't think Connery's saying, -"I needed help." He's saying, -"Someone else did." By the way, Jimmy, this is what's crazy. Joe McTiernan went to Julliard.

Oh! Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's, uh... Like, you're like, oh, this is a classic example of a guy who's just, like, a technical filmmaker and doesn't know how to talk to actors. His starting point is drama at Julliard. Wow. Okay, that becomes a commercial director. That is a new wrinkle.

That's really interesting. So it's not even like, well, how could you... This guy doesn't have a language for actors. And up until this point, he cast well and he let people do their own thing. Right. And so many directors are not like an actor's director. Right. But you're like, this guy, like, these fucking three years of the hardcore drilling to the

language of drama. Wow. Yes. Wow. Yes. Wow. Yes. And specifically like Julliard 4 directing. Yeah. I know.

I don't know what to tell you. And then Connery is like, yeah, he was just busy looking at screens. Well, because at this point, he's such a... He's made these three action movies. He's probably like more... I don't know. Well, he only had $40 million. He didn't have a lot of support in the jungle.

His little tiny earful. Just him. More, I don't know. Well, he only had $40 million. He didn't have a lot of support in the jungle. His little tiny earphone. Just him. Apparently, Sean insisted that Braco get flown to LA to attend the Oscars, because she was nominated. Oh, so they're filming this? 91. So this is really her immediate Goodfellas follow-up.

Or right, no, early 91, right, exactly. Wow. Braco thanks him in her autobiography. She says, I've always said that Sean Connery gave me a chance to meet Cinderella for an evening, and I'll never forget it. Okay. So that was apparently Connery doing that. But also, the other thing I'm reading here

is that she got to the Oscars because, quote, part of Sean's agreement with the producers of Medicine Man was a certain number of hours on a private jet. Sure. Good for him. I mean, that makes sense. Like, you're gonna gas up my jet 10 times if I'm gonna do your stupid jungle movie or whatever. This premiere magazine feature that I've been quoting

from I'm realizing Lorraine declined to participate. Okay. So another point underlining tension. And she says later that it was a horrific creative experience for her and she did the best she could under the circumstances. Yeah, so, you know, whatever. It sounded bad. They want to shoot it in Mexico. It's the exact same city they end up going to for the second half of Predator.

Yeah, they don't really use the actual Amazon because that is like a true, I think, hell to shoot in. So they go to southern Mexico and they've got a lot of tree talk. Who fucking cares? All right, move on. This is a classic force through the trees. Truly McTiernan's only paying attention to what the trees are like. Uh, Connery says, uh, the food was appalling, everybody got sick. I wasn't sick only because I drank so much vodka.

Okay. That was part of his character too, is that he's like kind of a lush. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I wonder if they baked that, if that was an on-set kind of rewrite. I think that might have been kind of an automatic rewrite for any part he was playing. Yeah, maybe that's true.

Yeah. Apparently, Connery shut down the set at one point, would speed through scenes quickly so he could leave early. To go where? Anywhere else, is what I get. I mean, Connery- A different part of the story. Connery ended up-

I'm like, where are you going, man? When he retired, because he retired basically in the early 2000s, he died like two years ago, right? So he lived in the Bahamas for like the last 20 years of his life. Like he definitely became one of those guys who's just like, give me a compound. I'll just sit here in a straw hat and reminisce on how I used to think it was cool to hit women. Yeah, exactly.

Right. That is probably what he would do. Yes. Yeah. This film was planned for Oscar season 1991 and then it got delayed. Hmm. I wonder why. Okay. And it was, if I haven't pointed this out, already distributed by Disney. Walt Disney Pictures. Disney. I mean under Hollywood. Right. One of their adults. Hollywood and Touchstone were their two grown-up brands. But this is a Disney movie. That would explain why there was even more sort of shtick and less steamy chemistry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is this movie better if it's a fuckfest? I'm asking that generally. I would prefer. But not with the two of them. Not really with the two of them. Not with the two of them. But say, is this movie better if like,

end of act one, they start fucking, act two, they have lots of sex and then break up in some big drama. Act three, they heal and maybe by the end, they're gonna figure it out. Probably, but if we're having this conversation, can we talk alternate casting ideas? Yes, please.

By all means. Yes. Oh, a ham sandwich and a bag of potato chips. Sounds good. Bring them in. They're going to be better. Let Connery fuck the Lay's bag. I mean, I mean.

I mean. Connery fucked the Lay's bag. Just like, I just. That's the other thing. Connery can kind of have chemistry with anyone in his career. What do you think of Sean Connery, Jamie? Weigh in on Connery.

Okay, I've never... Well, when people are always like, he's like a sex symbol, I never really understood that. And I'm not saying that because I don't, I can't recognize that he is like a striking presence, an attractive man. There's no piece of me that understands, like, no, not, that's sorry, there's a piece of me that understands the appeal. There's no piece of me where that really resonates with me. You don't feel it.

I don't feel it at all. And I've never felt it. And I've never seen, I've never seen the evidence. Have you seen like Young Bond? Yeah. And even then, OK. Yeah, I just like, maybe I need to re-watch that. I just never, it never worked on me.

I mean, he's hot, he's definitely, he's super hot in the Bonds, but in this, you know, he's got this like scary edge. You talk about it, that he's, whenever we bring this up, that like he's scary in those movies, in a way the other Bonds aren't. Right, and when he does a non-Bond, what does he do? He does Marnie or something,

where he's basically an outright villain. Right, or like all the movie- Again, with this sexual dark edge. He plays haunted guy when he's young. Yeah, yeah. And then in the 70s, he starts becoming more of this kind of guy in a cravat, who sounds like he just like, you know,

went through four cigars, because he probably did. Yes. Like, and he's masculine and hairy and like, it's like Zardoz and fucking Robin and Marion and Orient Express and stuff like that, right? You know, like where he's, he's like a, you know, big fella. You're making me realize like, even if, okay, so like, even if it was still, we're still in this sort of Disney world,

we're like, you know, it's as it was in the movie, they never, nothing ever happens, they don't, nothing physical happens between them. I still am looking for a woman who's going to call him on his shtick. Right. And I felt like, again, fighting fire with fire, it was just kind of like anger towards his sort of,

like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, he's kind of closed off, you know, you don't really get to know him that well. Like, I want someone who makes him a little more vulnerable. And I think the fact that that never really happens is the reason it feels like they don't have chemistry, whether they followed through with it or not. He never really feels like he's brought low, except by that he's not brought low.

He's lost the fucking cancer cure, which has nothing to do with that. He didn't bring him that low. He's just kind of annoyed about it. Yeah. Where'd it go? Well, the lowest point happens long before the move. That's the thing. He already went through it all. And when she shows up, he's just a grump. He's just Mr of annoyed about it. Yeah. Where'd it go? Well, the lowest point happens long before the move. That's the thing, he already went through it all, and when she shows up, he's just a grump. He's just Mr. Grump.

He's grumpy. And when he talks to... And she's grumpy. Right, and she's, yeah. It's fighting grump with grump. It's grump on grump. David. Yes. I hate planning weddings.

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Please don't, what is it? My friend's wedding. Oh, come on. They don't have a planner. So here's an alternate casting thought. Okay. Because I'm watching it and I'm like, okay, this movie's pushing the Bronx thing really hard.

I don't know if that was a rewrite when they cast Braco, or if that was always part of the script. Wait, can I interrupt for two seconds? Please. Okay, I just want to know, did you guys have the same instinct of the second it started, you're thinking, this is miscast? Yes. Oh, uh-huh. No, the second she's talking. Immediate. God bless her.

It was the first thought, was like, whoa, this what? This is a mistake. Okay, okay, keep going. Like something something bad has happened right right immediate it haunts you as you watch it It does there's also there's a later scene where he's trying to like run away and take a shower under the waterfall and like Fucking just grump around and she comes up behind him and like calls him into action Splish, splash! I'm taking a bath, damn it! Fucking ants!

He's there under the waterfall and she comes up behind him and she has to yell really loud so he can hear her. Yes, I remember this! And the thing I clocked was like, oh, this is the volume she's been talking at the entire film. Like you talking about her seeming miscast immediately, it's not just the brashness of the energy of the performance or the accent or any of that. She also enters the movie and she's like, hi, I'm here!

The fuck are you doing? I'm holding my head in my hands because like you don't want to be like, I hate how that lady yelled for the whole movie right literally I hated how she's just fucking yelling the whole goddamn Yelling is like an energy thing. I'm saying she's like She's a woman in the back row of the Q&A sing like I don't need the mic so my question is Like that is the tone of her speechful film. First time caller, long time listener.

By the way, I don't have a phone. I'm yelling at you from my house to the radio station. Where, just to, I present your alternative casting in a second, but just, I understand most of our listeners are not gonna watch this movie. Because why would they? The premise of the film is he's in the jungle and she's been sent there to check on his research. That's it.

She's not there being like, I need this from you, or I'm here to help you. She's just here to be like, what's going on? It's like the to help you. She's just here to be like, what's going on? She's like covering. Yeah, it's like the vaguest assignment. It's not even what I assumed the setup of this movie would be, which is like the Apocalypse Now style. We sent this guy and he went off the grid. We can't find him. You have to find him.

But just how they set it up, you think it's going to be like, whoa, what happened? And then it's like, there he is. Yeah. Yeah, he's like, what are you doing here? I found you! Is she his boss? What is her position?

What works for the company that funds him? But no, she is not his boss. She's not not his boss, in terms of who's putting up the money. She's like the financier? She can't like fuck him over, but she could, I guess, report back. Report back, report back.

Like, hey, he's blowing it. Right. And it would like cause him trouble Sent out on behalf of his boss And she doesn't see me it doesn't matter because he's like I cured cancer and I can't find it and she's like, oh Jesus Well, let's find it. You know, like that's sort of restate for anyone who didn't watch the film This movie is about him finding the cure for cancer and losing it. In ants. In ants. I mean, spoiler alert, it was ants all along.

It was the ants all along. Okay, so who do you want to play Lorraine Bracco? I'm trying to think literally about the brassy city girl aspect. Sorry, I have one more interruption. Well, actually, there may be more, but I'm going to try to limit them. No, you're too loud. You have an infinite amount. I just want to say, when you were talking about the waterfall scene

I think the reason that was also so jarring is because we've seen the imagery of The the male lead in the waterfall or she's in the waterfall and then the other person comes behind him They're gonna into the waterfall. It's like here we go Yeah, but instead it's him sort of drowning himself in the waterfall to like escape his inner darkness Not unlike I mean I haven't seen predator very much not unlike what I would imagine predator or alien Comes up behind me. She's like like

It's just like like get the fuck out of that waterfall And I was just like wait this trope fell apart Yes, and that's the moment where I'm like is this movie to its credit not even attempting romance. It cuts. It always hard cut No, it's like it's like a jump scare Oh my god, okay keep going So I'm thinking about the city girl thing because it's said so much in the script that I'm like is that part of the the Contrast they want here, right? Yeah it does feel like Who this movie and I know she's in a bit of a weird wilderness period in her career at this point, but like the different Scorsese Discovery Oscar nominee from 10 years earlier,

who is I believe the same age as Lorraine Bracco, it feels like as written this is more Cathy Moriarty than it is Lorraine Bracco. Cathy Moriarty. Okay. Now what's she up to lately? Well, she had a big, she's the wife in Raging Bull. It's the same kind of like... She really is, just doesn't do a lot of movies though. No, this is what I'm saying. She comes back in the 90s, because she does Raging Bull and then she does Neighbors.

And then I'm, am I mistaken in thinking she got in a car accident? That sounds possible because she took a huge... She took a huge break. Oh, I remember her. Break. But you're right that by the 90s, she's in kindergarten, she's in soap dish. Loved her in soap dish.

She's in Mambo Kings in 92. I'm not saying she's perfect, but it almost feels like that's more of what they want and Braco feels like. What about like, Rosie Perez? Okay, David, thank you. Cause like, this is like a real Rosie Perez, like Fearless is maybe the year after this.

And like if you wanna have, if you wanna modify the script, one iota, right? If you just wanna hand as written to another actress, Rosie Perez yelling at him in this same way is funny and charming. Agreed. And maybe it's just like the size, the fact that they seem like they're from different planets,

which is what I think you need. For innate comic energy, yes. I think you need more. I think it's, if you're gonna have this, you need them to be more different. Yes. Because they're kind of the same. Yes.

Which I think is the ultimate problem. They're too similar. They're both just grumpy. Right. And like they don't really love life. They have no zest for life, no joie de vivre. They're just kind of like grumping around in the wilderness.

And like Rosie Perez complaining about shit and yelling at people in movies is one of the greatest things we have. Agreed, agreed. It's always entertaining. Maybe a Marissa Tomei. Tomei could fucking do it. So we're sticking, we're obviously sticking

very like New York here. So now I'm gonna shift laterally. Right, yeah, yeah. The most obvious movie star version of this, and I'm gonna shift laterally. Right, yeah, yeah. The most obvious movie star version of this, and I know this is the same year she really pops, so it's like if she does this, she maybe doesn't get the better role she should have gotten. But Sharon Stone feels like the obvious kind of Hollywood casting. She's got the A-list, I can go toe-to-toe with anybody.

Right, that's right, that's right. Which is totally, you know. While still being, you know, 20 plus years younger than Sean Connery, does not feel like a child next to him. Right, right. Which like, Rosie Perez might kind of. Rosie Perez is like 10 years younger than Lorraine Bracco.

Yeah, she's younger. Cathy Moriarty is also younger, surprisingly. Right, cause she's really young and raging bull. But Sharon Stone, what about like, Uma Thurman's too young. I mean, okay, what about Connery though? Are we keeping Connery? He makes sense as guy in the jungle. I kind of like Connery doing that.

He makes sense as essentially- Sadly, I didn't even think for a second we're replacing Connery. Well, obviously he's also, at this point, like the whole thing with him is he's Bond, and then his 70s is defined by like, you don't want to play James Bond because you're going to end up like Sean Connery. You're going to be like tough to cast. Everyone's going to associate with Bond. You're going to make bombs.

But then the 80s, especially the later 80s, it's like Highlander, Name of the Rose, Untouchables, Wins an Oscar, Indiana Jones, The Last Crusade, Humphrey Red October, Robin Hood, like, you know, it's like, hit, hit. Well, what's wild is he, like, owns elder statesmen and it makes him kick back up higher on the leading man list. Yeah. Like, there's also this thing with him that's fascinating of, like, he was losing his hair when he got cast as James Bond

He wore a toupee from the beginning No, I didn't know that and then basically was just sort of like I'll do whatever the movie requires Like I'm not pretending. I'm not bald in real life. Wait, that wasn't his real hair in this movie That's what's also insane. What is like in Indiana Jones? He's just like showing his skull right like same and untouchables When he's doing press and premieres, he's not like wearing a toupee to maintain appearances So there were meetings where they were like, okay Shawn's coming in with like the like gray horseshoe and beard How do we fit this and they're like build a ponytail?

Build a ponytail to a fix We have we have to construct this pony. Yeah a ponytail to a fix. They did have to build a ponytail. We have to construct this ponytail. Yeah. What if it's... In the puppet workshop. Yes. Jim Henson's creature workshop. What if it's Harrison Ford? That's what I was... That was my only other thought.

He was good at playing a grump. He's so good. He's so good. Mosquito coast. Wait. I just invoked a third Peter Weir movie. You did. But, like, you know, like, he's played Lost in the Jungle. You're like, someone like that.

If this is Harrison Ford and Marisa Tomei, does this movie rule? It sounds better. There's no way that this movie, if we're using this script, can rule. The script is incredibly inert. The story just is mostly just nothing happening. There's not much of an ending.

But there are ideas I like in it. That's the thing. There's ideas to this setup that maybe you can play around with, but like, if I'm giving this script to three other people, I don't think they're gonna make a good movie. Six Days, Seven Nights is a less dramatic version of this movie Harrison Ford tries to do a couple years later with a comedy director.

I mean, Six Days, Seven Nights, though, is more action-packed. It is. It's more comical, like you're saying. Yeah. That movie, but Ford doesn't make sense in that movie. No, he doesn't. It's too funny.

He'd make more sense in this. He would. Right, he'd make more sense in this. Because he doesn't have to be that, he doesn't really have to be that funny. No, but like, him and Tomei in this, I think about that. I'm immediately laughing in my mind

just imagining the two of them talking to each other, and I do want to watch them kiss. What about... Yeah, for sure. ...Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn? Well... Just get them together. They're an actual couple. Yeah, but yes, yes, yes, but at this point, I'm like,

here's the pitch, bring in Nora or Nancy and have them start over from page one. That's right. You readapt this premise into straight-up screwball comedy, right? What about? Costner Cancers the cancer curing really does get in the way the cancer curing is a huge problem because you're like a problem You care cancer, right? I'm calling the United States military

That is not... that is not... It almost requires... You know what it is? It's a little bit... almost in the tone of like outbreak or something. Yes. If that's really what you're doing. It's more of a Rousseau and... Who was the guy?

Uh, Hoffman. Thank you. It's that kind of energy. No, but you're right. If this movie is, bring in Efron, energy. No, but you're right if if this movie is Bring an aphron start from page one You're retrofitting this to Goldie and Kurt and she's like first note the medication they find is like a weight loss pill Yeah, it's not the cure for cancer. No, okay. I'm just I'm gonna work for some drug company or something Yeah, let's gender flip it. Okay. Sharon Stone plays the Connery role. Okay.

I'm taking, or give me an A-lister, give me another A-lister. Well, it's not, I'm sure it's not Julia. No, too young. Yeah. Kathleen Turner. I don't know. Susan Sarandon.

Susan Sarandon. Wow, Jamie out on Sarandon. And someone like, who's like a, like Wesley Snipes. Is the young, we need like a like Wesley Snipes We need like a new star yeah, so Wesley Snipes who's probably just a few years in at this point. It's 91 Yeah, okay. He's coming or Denzel or someone like that. Okay. Well, then let me flip it again Now I'm just like what if we cast like Orson Welles? I'm just Let me flip it again. What if there's no romance? What if it's Wesley and Woody? What if it's? Together again Well, wait a second

They haven't this would be before this would be the first one jump would have to be a medicine man reunion It's a year later. Really? No, it's the same. It's 92, right? Okay, so that's why Perez kind of can do it, cause she's still kind of growing. Oh boy. I mean, I think we have come up with some good ideas here. But we are stuck with Sean Connery and Lorraine Bracco. God, now that we've spitballed all these other ideas, I can't believe we're coming back to Connery and Bracco.

And now we have to sit in the slot of this reality. That's what happened? That's what happened. I mean, I can't even believe that that's like canon. That's crazy. Look, much like Nomads, his other film so far that we've watched that has no reputation really. Jodie Foster.

Okay. I'm sorry, I'm looking through best actress nominees. Jodie Foster as Connery Roll? Or as the... Could kind of do? She really could go both ways. I mean, Michelle Pfeiffer. Ooh, that's a great one.

Yeah. I mean, you're naming the big star. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Sigourney? They're also all believable as... Sigourney. A doctor. Yeah. Or whatever. She's a research chemist.

She is a biochemist, and she is a doctor. And a researcher. So the idea is he's in the jungle. She's showing- Bette Midler, sorry, that's the other one I was trying to remember. Bette Midler, of course, yes, good point. That is fun.

We're really losing steam on your suggestions. Oh my God, Bette Midler in the jungle. I would pay all the money to see that. The only person louder than Brock. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Falling onto that tree branch. Oh, the bits.

Bette Midler with like blood coming out. Oh, my God, that'd be incredible. By the way, guys, that is an actual scene. She falls onto a tree branch. Anyways. He is some sort of, you know, researcher. He's in the jungle in the Amazon rainforest. She's checking in to see how his work's going.

She's ostensibly like bringing supplies. She is not whoever he thought, he thought she was gonna be like his, someone he knows. The usual guy, whatever. Right. Yeah. His, Robert Campbell, that's Sean Connery's character, has already been abandoned by his research partner and his wife.

Like we are meeting him, as we said, at a fairly low ebb. I'd say the lowest of the low. And he also found a cure to cancer and then forgot it or hasn't figured out how he found it. He doesn't wanna ever go back to society. He wants to stay here. You find out that he basically got into a dick measuring contest

with this tribes medicine man who then said, fuck it, I'm out. So now he feels an obligation to stay and treat. And by dick medicine, dick medicine, dick measuring contest, you mean he like sort of showed him up by using Alka-Seltzer in front of him. That, can I just say something? That all of that, the fact that all of that took place off camera, it's all in the expo,

it was all exposition, right? Yeah, it's all just said. When he was just saying that, I was like, wait, why? Can we see that? You know, yes We need to see it or a flashback or something if the whole thing hinges on the word met Medicine man and we're just hearing about yes, you replace this guy. We haven't met yet. I was like what this is so convoluted I thought I don't know I watch this movie this morning and I'm already forgetting the order in which the information is dispensed.

Because you keep on thinking, okay, so that's what's going on with Connery's character, and then they add another layer. But I think the first thing is, I accidentally chased their medicine man out of town, so now I have an obligation to stay and help these people. Right? There's already been incidents of, like, foreign pathogens getting people sick. He's very on edge when she shows up. He's anxious about that. She shows up and he's like, Right? There's already been incidents of like foreign pathogens getting people sick.

He's very on edge when she shows up. He's anxious about that. She shows up and he's like, where's your mask? Yes, where's your mask? I mean your surgical mask. Right, I need to see your vaccine card. Yep. Yeah, there's a lot of weird pandemic-y stuff.

By the way, him being like, I need to see your vaccine card, and she's like, oh God, you're like, you're a fucking doctor too. It's true. You should be like, of course, here's my vaccine card. Yes, rather than being like. Put out, it's like.

What are you even doing here? Like tossing your bread. I need a bath, I need a hot meal, I have to show my fucking vaccine card. You're like what? Where's the closest spa? It's like, what the fucking doctor? We're doing comically exaggerated voices.

You went on this job, like you have a job to fill. It was so insane. We are exaggerating the voice, but we're not. It's not a far cry. We're only a little as much as one would think. So that's the first reveal. Then the second reveal is, oh, he's found the cure for cancer, I believe.

And she's like, why are you not sharing this with the world? And it's a two-part thing. One of it is, one part of it is this is based on The element that they have in their tribe if I let everyone else know that I found this thing and synthesize it They'll come in run trucks through the town and fuck them up It's like a trolley car problem. I'd rather protect them than save the rest of society It's like a trolley car problem of I'd rather protect them than save the rest of society. And as an example, you, Lorraine Bracco, are too young to remember this.

But the same company that we work for previously did this to a different tribe with a different element that they thought they could synthesize into some other treatment. And all of them got swine flu and they all were wiped out. I will not allow this to happen again. And then the third reveal of his backstory is that he was the one responsible for that incident. Right. He's too many. Right. That's right. That comes out later. So he's specifically guilt-laden of, I let this happen one time. I cannot let it happen again.

I have to choose the Native people over the corporation this time and and then in between Reveals two and three comes the reveal of I also can't Replicate the cancer treatment because I don't know what I like practice magic formula Some x-factor thing that every time I try to repeat it doesn't work. Also, there's like I only have this much cancer treatment left Right only have a little bit. Also, there's like a logging company. That's like headed this way. They're already Paving a road that's gonna attack this town too too many things. He's been getting wasted on loogie like fruit Blasted but when we all when we're saying all this we're making the film sound somewhat dynamic and dense and interesting, when in fact it's just like staring at leaves

while you hear a lady from the Bronx scream in the distance. It's so boring. It's Conor and like quietly getting drunk and saying, please let me die. Fuck off. And Lauren Bracco yelling at him. And making him wanna die more. It's not sexy.

No. It's not like- Marketed to be sexy. Yes, but it's more. It's not sexy. No. It's not like- Marketed to be sexy. Yes, but it's not. But not at all. There's also a version of this movie that is just, unfortunately the bad news is, I synthesized the cure for cancer one time,

but it's with this ingredient that's in the toughest part of the jungle. We're gonna have to journey for five days, and then it's kind of like romancing the stone of just the trials and tribulations, which this movie does a section of this, but it's more just like, this is an annoying journey versus like, oh no, mudslide.

Oh no, we're fighting hippopotamus. But there was some of that. There was a little bit of hijinks. But there's a version of this movie that is just, we know what we need to get to. Yes, I would love that. And we get there, and it's just about, can we make it there and back alive?

Just a clean, we're at point A, we gotta get to B. This movie wants to be a morality drama, and I don't think it is even attempting to say anything really profound. This doesn't feel like an issues movie, but it is like, we're trying to create an internal moral conflict for this man that is so compelling, a man who is so tortured and broken

that you cannot help but get engaged in what's going on with him. And perhaps only the love of a good woman, a smart scientist, could save this man and save humanity. It's almost like, it's almost like take, it's almost like take like the the brooding tortured nature of like Casey Affleck and Manchester by the Sea and then marry it with the fun of What is that movie with Sandra Bullock and? velocity the loss. Yep. Yeah. Yes But it's neither as dramatic as the former,

or as sort of fun and zippy as the latter. Exactly. And not really as, I can't even, there's no, it's not profound either. But they wanted it to be. Yes, but they wanted it to be, yeah. I think they wanted it to be deep. They wanted it to have some messaging.

But it also doesn't feel like, like this is a movie that has something specific to say about the state of the messaging. And, yeah. But it also doesn't feel like this is a movie that has something specific to say about the state of the world. That's right. It's like dealing in abstract ideas. Yeah. Right, because it's like, the movie's all hinged on,

what if you just magically discovered the cure for cancer? So it's not like, what is the ethical responsibility of our biochemist in this world today? No, because also it's like... Either the road's gonna get him or you curing cancer is gonna get him. Like, which no one says out loud in this movie, but it's like, yeah, these guys are probably screwed.

The road is actually like a dumb element for the script to include. I really wish it wasn't in there. We need a ticking clock, but it's true. It doesn't make any sense, because then you're just like, well, they're screwed anyway. Right. Absolutely make any sense, because then you're just like, well, they're screwed anyway. Right. Absolutely.

Because the movie isn't about them trying to stop the road. No. Like that's a different movie. That's an environmental movie about like, yeah, we can't build roads in the Amazon. That's also a movie where he like trains the tribe to attack. Yep.

Like, yeah, like, and like maybe like Home Tree gets attacked. Yes. And then they have to don their banshees. And I'm doing Avatar. Someone would have to plug into the Mighty Akron, find a way to tame Taruk and become the first Taruk Macto that tribe had had in decades. You're doing a better job than me.

I got my Avatar steel books, though. Oh, Andrew. I know the Cameron 4K. I'm genuinely worried if we get into this, Jamie will walk out of this studio. Anyway, anyway. I was like, wait, what? You don't need to know about this.

We're really big into physical media. That makes it sound worse. That makes us sound like perverts. I'm trying to make us sound like historians. Um, they rewrit... He means Blu-ray discs. He just means fucking discs. But the student book is a specific type of packaging

which gets back into the physical tangible aspect of the realm. He's um... It comes up a lot. They've re-released The Way of Water in an upgraded edition six months after it was released for the first time. Just for fucking simps like us. Just for fucking simps like us. So there's a boy who's sick, right?

So there's a boy who's sick, right? This is sort of propels the action of the middle of the movie. Right. So they're like, let's go find the medicine man. Because he's basically got like one tube of cancer juice left. And they're going to use it to cure. There's a tumor in his throat, they think. Yeah, he has some like malignancy.

Lumps. Lumps in his throat. By the way, they call it lumps in his throat. I'm not just... Yes, no, they keep on being very kind of flipping about it, but she's like, you either save the rest of the world, relieve them of the greatest plagues of the 20th century. It's like you say, some trolley problem, right.

Or you get the lumps out one boy's throat. That scene was crazy because yeah, he's like, I have to, yeah, I have to occur this boy. And then she's like, no, you can't. And then she makes, she says, I can't. And then she makes, she says, I can't believe it was like a line she had to say. She's like, he's not gonna die in 48 hours. You remember that?

Yes. She's like, he's not gonna die of cancer in 48 hours. I think you're also saying it in a nicer and more measured way than she says it, Jamie. But she screams it. But it was like this tone of like, he's fine. This isn't a time sensitive issue. Yeah, this isn't time sensitive cancer.

Let the boy get a little more cancer. Let it grow a little more. Let the lumps take over, just a little more. Let him suffer for like another two months. What's a lump? He can take the cancer. What's two lumps, three lumps, four lumps, five? Look, they gotta go find the medicine man.

Connery has to like fake lose a fight with him, right? To sort of, like... Because this ingredient that you want is only at the tallest trees. This is so stupid. Let's just... Oh, God, let's just forget it. As if it's like a Donkey Kong country level where you just have to climb as high as possible.

This felt the most... When you told me it's Disney, I can't get that out of my head now. This felt the most Disney of him, me it's Disney, I can't get that out of my head now. This felt the most Disney of him fighting the original medicine man and then she's whispering to the other Aboriginal guy, like, what are they saying? Right, the translation. But the translations aren't even funny, they're sincere.

And then she's yelling like she's watching a boxing match. Absolutely. And you're like, and then she's like yelling like it's like she's watching a boxing absolutely and you're like tell him his mother Yeah, tell his mother sucks cock in hell or whatever the fuck she said she did say something That was like really weird about like fucking your cousin. Yeah, well she goes round the block. I mean she's so fat She goes around the block she's saying Fucking like street jokes for Connery to yell at the medicine man I but but and then and then the guy's translating is being very sincere like oh, this is what they're saying It was that was mind-blowing anyways. I know we need to move on

I just this sequences medicine man reemerges with the stick yeah, and Lurian Brock goes like what does this mean now? And Connery is like you know when you get called in for a conference meeting and they make your shit down neat crow Yeah, also weird like Rosemary's baby sort of throwback We're like that the medicine man like draws on her face and her sleep, right? What she thinks is a nightmare thinks it's a nightmare and then it's like and then it's like oh, but it actually happened Which is literally from I'm not saying they're taking it from that, but it felt very Rosemary's baby when the devil draws on her stomach. Yeah, she's got a big blue line across her forehead.

Line on her forehead. And it is permanent. It's permanent. It would have been something blue at her wedding. So after this, basically the medicine man is finally like, the flowers have no juju. They cannot... That's right. You're wrong. The flowers... Right. They cannot heal this boy.

Like, that is not... You've misidentified. The deal, and so, Connery's like, we have to simply inoculate the boy. Like, we, you know, push has come to shove. But there's some little hint at the bugs. Yeah. Being part of it. I don't remember exactly how he phrases it,

but there's some kind of like little touch that you then reveal. No juju sky flower, only house for bugs. That's what the, which doctor, you know, the medicine man says. He's like, the bugs live inside the flower. And of course, right. It's like, really you should be grinding up these ants, I guess.

Which we see the ants in that scene earlier. In the sugar bowl. Shoot ant juice into you. Like, that's what they're, I don't know. Can I just flag that that is the craziest shot, to me, of the whole movie, is there's this weird thing where it's like all of the like, native people are there and it's the women and they're topless,

and they pan across all of the boobs and then they get to Lorraine Bracos and she's in a shirt. Yes. And it just stops there. Almost like that's the punchline is that like, oh, they don't wear shirts. Like she does. Right. And it was such a crazy shot.

I was like, I can't even believe that. There's a lot of sort of incidental, sort of national geographic kind of nudity. This is a PG-13 movie with a lot of photojournalism nudity. And then there's this one shot that like calls attention to it... In the name of a punchline that doesn't really work. Exactly. Am I being clear about what it is? Yes. But it's truly, it is it is like a slow like dolly track

A dolly track shot across nipples. Close up. Close up. Close up. The framing is right on the tense. Pair of tits, pair of tits, pair of tits, Lorraine Bracco in a tank top. Lorraine Bracco in a shirt. Yeah. Can you believe this lady? I couldn't I couldn't believe they kept that in. Right and then she almost yells at the cameraman Hey, my eyes are up here! I couldn't I couldn't believe they kept that in right and then she almost yells at the camera We have to do Scorsese now just to clear her good name David I was going to say that we almost have a moral obligation It is too rude if we cover Pinocchio medicine man and donfellas episode. Like, we just have to actually shout her out in a movie that's good, because we're really,

I mean, what am I supposed to do? Who beats her for the Goodfellas Oscar? Fuck, it's not Mary McDonnell. No. Who wins the Goodfellas Oscar, so that, but that's the dance's rules. It's not Mercedes' rule, is it? Maybe, that's, in my opinion, an overrated performance. I agree with you. It's not Mercedes' rule, is it? Maybe, that's in my opinion an overrated performance.

I agree with you. It's Mercedes', no it's- No, it's Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost, which was the fucking juggernaut. It's hard to argue. You're not losing to Whoopi. Oh yeah, no. That's not believable.

Because Whoopi had the combo of, this movie is huge and she pops in it so crazy, and she probably should have already won an Oscar for Color Purple. So it's like, you know, stand aside everybody. Yeah, like Whoopi's getting this one. Yes. She also... That year is Whoopi, Annette Benning for the Grifters,

which is also a performance that probably could have won in a different year. Mary MacDonald dances with wolves, Diane Ladd, Wild at Heart. That's like a crazy good category. It's a very good category, and those are basically five great performances. Wait, Wild at Heart, That's like a crazy good category. It's a very good category, and those are basically five great performances. Wait, Wild at Heart, what is that? The David Lynch movie.

Nicholas Cage playing Elvis Coder. Diane Ladd, who is Laura Dern's mom, is playing Laura Dern's mom. Okay. And she's crazy, and it's a big, crazy performance. Here's the thing, I'm like, oh, right, my timeline was wrong. My cousin Vinny is two years after that. Yeah, so Tomé's like big, crazy performance. Here's the thing, I'm like, oh right, my timeline was wrong. My cousin Vinny is two years after that.

Yeah, so Tomei's like an ingenue only at this point. Right, and then Perez in Fearless is 93, this is the same year as Whiteman can jump, so you're like, she wouldn't really have had. Right, Stone, this is the same year as Basic Instinct. But I did, no, there's the group of people we were talking about, Pfeiffer and Sigourney and 80s. Yeah, I mean Holly Hunter. Oh post broadcast news, I mean

Could she do a Bronx accent? No, no, they would be she's Georgia Beach. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Candice Bergen. Oh I mean Bergen getting buckets in the Amazon. What about Cher just hey Let's call her up. I would love that. That would be fun, right? That'd be so fun. Yeah, I mean that's a that's a powerhouse Cher could also hold Cher and Connery. Yes exactly against Connery. Right, Sunny. They both won Oscars in the same year Oh, Sunny now Ben's raising an interesting point. What if 15 years after their divorce Sonny and Cher together in the Amazon Trying to cure cancer Isn't he like a congressman by this point? Yeah, he's a congressman. He could take a break. I resigned from Congress. I have received a script

So profound. This thing's so good and I'm told Stoppard's about to take a hack at it. Four million have already been sunk into this I have an obligation to my constituents. Fucking Sonny, man. Sonny. He's like a Republican, too. And then he died of a skiing accident. I know. Yeah.

That part's sad. Yeah. It's just funny that you're like, oh, Sonny and Cher are these like Bohemian TV, you know, icons, and then you're like, oh, you look it up and it's like, yeah, he's sort of like a Reagan Republican. Right, right, right. Fiscocan survey.

Yeah, right. David. Yes. This episode, once again, brought to us by Moobie. Moobie. Moobie. Oh. Now I was just doing my impression of her. The cine-ass cow is not back.

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Here's the pitch, great cinema. Here's the pitch, good. Good, it's good that you get great. Here's the pitch, good. The pitch is good. We're doing a good job on her. Just like here's my pitch. Good. Look, they go back to the fucking village. They figure out that it's ants. Um, she whips up a new batch and suddenly the numbers, the cancer's down to 22. Don't you even try to justify how they explain this shit. What sugar did you use?

And she's like, we ran out, so I went over to the coffee station. And he knocks over dramatically the sugar bowl, and a bunch of ants come out, and his eyes widen. Right, so she doesn't even figure this out through ingenuity. Absolute accident. It's not like she uses her biochemistry wiles.

Yes, exactly. And arguably, not only is it an accident, but it's because she was being unprofessional. The implication is almost like they were supposed to go into the jungle for more organic cane sugar, and instead she just took a spoonful of domino off the counter. I took some sweet and low with my bra.

But also they do in the beginning set up that she's very smart. She understands this computer database more than he does. with my bra. But also they do in the beginning set up that she's very smart. She understands this computer database more than he does. Yes, she's better at computer. She's a modern woman. Especially with all the rewrites they did, why wouldn't you follow through?

Why wouldn't you have her do anything? Why are you pulling a different thread now where she's kind of like a doofus who just stumbles upon? You know what I mean? It's like you've set her up that she's good. And also sort of has this energy of, who's kind of like a doofus who just stumbles upon, you know what I mean? It's like you've set her up that she's good. What does she... And also sort of has this energy of like, oh fuck, I'm getting caught for fucking up the formula.

When he's like, what sugar did you use? She's like, uh... Oh my God. What does she do in this movie? Like, I guess she helps him get over his wife leaving him? What does she do? Like, if I'm just fucking Robert McKee or whatever, I'm like, what is this character's, you know, effect on this story,

apart from yelling in his goddamn ear? Also, what does he do for her? Nothing! I don't know. Let's talk about that. I guess breaks off her engagement. Yeah? Yeah. I guess. There's that kind of funny thing where he's like, who's your fiance?

And she's like, oh, it's this guy. And he's like, he's 80 years old, you're gonna inherit. Brilliant. Like, great idea. I's that kind of funny thing where he's like, who's your fiance? And she's like, oh, it's this guy. And he's like, he's 80 years old. You're going to inherit, brilliant. Like great idea. I know that guy. And she's like, no, his son. And he's like, oh, well, I don't know that guy. Right.

Like that's the, you know. Which is the first time she even invokes the fiance, which is over an hour into the movie, which she brings up because all the tribespeople are looking at her weird. That's right. And she's like, why? And he's like, they can't believe you're the oldest

virgin they've ever seen. That was such a crazy line. What are you talking about? Well, I had to give them some reason they couldn't sleep with you. And she's like, well, you could tell them I'm engaged. And then they bring up this boyfriend for one fucking scene. She's never like, you know, writing a letter to him or anything. I laugh because I can't even imagine that relationship. And then he is not, no, you can't imagine.

I can't imagine her having a fiance. It's funny to cast the idea of a fiance. Is she going home to Bill Pullman? Right. She's marrying a medical nepo baby, I guess is the joke. Right. If he knows her dad. Yes.

I was about to say she's not writing him letters, but obviously I forgot she actually just screams to him from the jungle and it echoes off a satellite And hits him in fucking Houston or wherever the hell he is. That's what they did before text messaging existed. She would just scream. Braco would just, like emanating sonic waves Like Banshee. This movie doesn't even bother to be like, oh she really did love him

But now she's finding a new version of herself here. No, he doesn't exist. He's not real. Again, off camera, all the important things happen off camera. They're also not coding it as like, oh, she's in this engagement of convenience, but this guy doesn't really excite her. It's just like, she just casually mentions she has a fiance who is not brought up again until the final scene

where Connery derisively is like, what are you going to do? Go back to him? Toss that fucker. And our understanding of this fiance, they don't even make a choice about how we're supposed to feel about him when they introduce him, because whatever, Connery makes that stupid virgin joke. And then, like, why aren't you married yet or whatever?

I hate long engagements. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's like, oh, we're not married yet. We were gonna get married last year. And and then you're like okay so like you guys are just kind of like not getting married quickly I mean like that doesn't mean that you don't love each other like no such a it's not a choice it's not you're not saying the thing like just be clear like no and the only other time I think he's even mentioned is when she's like falling asleep and Connery

makes a comment about one of her earlobes being longer than the other and then says, I bet your fiance, Mr. Hooper, never noticed that. That's the kind of thing you only notice when you're in love. He just kind of quietly mutters to himself the realization that he likes her, even though he has shown no real interest or attraction.

Exactly, exactly. And it's like, it's just so murky. I'm like, like in the scene where, where she says the thing, or he says the thing about the long engagement, like why couldn't that be a little like, like more spelled out where she's like, I don't know, there's something,

like even if she said bad pitch, like, I don't know. I asked myself that. Yes. Like something where you're like, oh, she has doubts. I didn't even know she had doubts off of, so it seemed like she's like engaged. At least give me the one sentence of trying to instill any sense of unease she has

about her engagement. That's right. That's right. Rather than just like, I haven't gotten around to it. And then also just the easiest fix in the world to have her be the one who consciously cracks that it's the bugs. Like just the flip of the exact moment where Connery's at the computer and she's like,

wait, the data's different. Where did you pull the sugar from? Oh my God, it has to be, like let her solve that. My number one note for this movie is when they were done with the edit and all that, they should have taken it and put it in the garbage. But my number two note is, what if we just began with twin scenes? Her with her, you know, boring napkin husband, fiance, whatever, being like, I gotta go to... Phone call. You want me to fly to where?

And like... I gotta get on a boat? You know, he's like, oh, you're gonna love it. And she's like, oh, my goodness. And like, they have like a bad kiss and you're like, I don't think I like... And he's like, and when we get back, you're gonna retire from your job and stay home. That's right.

I gotta talk to my mom about the linens, whatever. Where we're like, okay, she's kind of fleeing something. And then we cut to Connery, you know, under a waterfall while his wife's like, I'm going, I've had enough. So we get at least why he's in such a low place, right? She's like, I'm dating your assistants. We're moving to fucking Peru.

I'm outta here. Just instead of just her showing up and him being like, what the fuck's your mask? You know, and like immediately just in their conflict. Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying to fix a movie that, you know, fundamentally just needs to be forgotten.

I agree. I mean, I think it's like the thing where like, I don't know, I feel like everyone's always trying to be like clever with exposition. And it's like, I mean, well, not this movie because it's so much exposition. Everything is just being said. There's no, like, show don't tell. Um, but I also think, like, there's power

in just saying what you're trying to convey. Like, there's no need to be coy. Like, just spell it out. Like, what are we watching? I think this is more a modern epidemic. It's, like, sort of surprising that Medicine Man doesn't have this shit, because this feels like the peak of, like, 90s Hollywood script notes, a modern epidemic, it's sort of surprising that Medicine Man doesn't have this shit,

because this feels like the peak of 90s Hollywood script notes, biggest emotional arcs, hit the obvious beats. Sometimes to the detriment of films, where it's like you have to do all of this. This feels like the kind of movie they're making in the player, right? This feels like the kind of movie

you're listening to Tim Robbins. But you can't, yes, I agree. It feels like you're overhearing dialogue like in an editing bay and people are like, oh, Jesus Christ, this piece of shit. But like where they would demand like, she needs to have, it needs to be a fiance with a running nose in the first act

who's like a wet blanket or whatever it is. You almost want that like Sleepless in Seattle kind of. I know, but that's also because the genre is so unclear what they're trying to make and yeah. But this is a thing I feel like I can think about. Wikipedia calls this an adventure drama. I mean, kinda. I guess so. Like that's probably the closest.

But like to earn both of those titles, you have to add six more. Right. Right? That makes it sound like it's 50% adventure, 50% drama. And you're like, it's 10% 10 things. It's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sure.

The adventure sequence, yeah, I wish it was so much more adventure. Like you had said before, I feel like I wanted it to be like, we have to get to the thing. And then it's them on an adventure to go get the thing. Like, I wish there was, I wish that was the set up of the movie. A big recurring complaint of mine to sort of like what you're getting at is I think this is kind of a pox in a lot of modern filmmaking.

Is you have like development execs who don't really have any like background or love in like the idea of storytelling are coming in from like tech or business sides and they're like approaching things with this sort of like cynical attitude of audiences know all the cliches you can't do these things that people are gonna make fun of because they've seen them in a billion movies and to your point of like it doesn't even need to be artful, I see so many movies now where I'm like, you're missing the one line to set this up.

And if you did it gracefully, I would give you a fucking standing ovation. But also because you don't have the one scene where someone says, well, I don't really like my boyfriend, the movie doesn't work. And you think you're avoiding the quote unquote cringe moment by not doing the version of the scene we've seen a thousand times. And you're like, maybe the reason that existed for decades is because it works, because it's functional.

Or if at the very least, if you're not gonna put the line in, direct her to be like, we need you to show some reservation about your relationship, which she did not do. Way to communicate it. She was just like, yeah, I don't know, we might get, you know, it was just like, oh, all right, I don't think, I guess also maybe that's, part of that is dated,

maybe back then, you know, if you had a long engagement it meant something different, whereas now plenty of people do it for financial reasons or just being busy, whatever it is. His response to it is just like, oh, I hate long engagements. I know. He's not even like, long engagement, bad sign.

Like, his judgment of it has nothing to do with her. He just seems like a grumpy old man. It's in principle. And then she's just defensive, where she's like, I don't know, fuck off. Right. That's funny. There's no real conversa-

They're like having separate conversations. Yes, and also in that scene, he does not seem jealous of the idea that she has a significant other. He's like, good on you getting that bag. Marry this fucking old guy. Yeah, you're like, oh, he's like just kind of being supportive grandpa right now. Like I don't understand. Yeah. Like, I don't understand, yeah. Let's just wrap up by saying that a bulldozer does catch fire

and burn down the village to sort of end the film. Correct. There's also a scene where Lorraine Bracco goes through his journals in which he has done, I would say, quite good drawings of people dying. It's his diary of the swine flu he caused. Right, the past epidemic, yes. And it's just pages of him doing very good portraits of people in various states of illness. Yes.

And you're like, what a weird way for him to document this rather than just like... You could just write the name and the date. Right. But instead it's literally like he's taking headshots of all of them. It's like an odd romanticism of him drawing mothers crying over dead children's bodies. So that when the tractor comes through and sets fire to the village, she also the next morning in the wreckage finds the burnt scraps of his drawings and is like, oh it happened again. I let it happen again, then she finds Connery kind of passed out, but alive and well

Yeah, he you think he's gonna be dead or something right fine the guy It's kind of his fault Assistant comes yes, and it's like hey, and he's like about time. You're here right We heard the great news about the cure for cancer. We want to sell it He's like it's fucking ants right and Connor is like you fucked it all up And they're like what are you talking about the medicine man saved them, and she was like the medicine man Sean Connery He's like no this guy and they owe the reveal the medicine man finally came back to save his people He returned to the tribe he found them a new apartment to move into basically

They're just like don't worry. He there's another jungle and it's gonna be They're just gonna move just over yonder right next door and the road will never hit them all of that is good You know, you need to feel no clone a colonialist guilt Everyone is fine. He gives Connery a golf club, which is like his stick you know, here you go, Braco negotiates, like, a better contract for him. And she gets to be the co-discoverer... Right. ...of the cure for cancer.

And then there's this, like, incredibly forced Bogie and Bacall style. What do you want? I want co-authorship on the cure. And then she's like, what do you want? And he goes, a bath and a meal. We have to take that shirt off. She walks over to him unbuttoned. He's got a cigarette in his mouth.

She pulls out close up of her breaking the cigarette in her hand. She starts leaning in there like, god damn it, I'm going to have to watch them kiss now. Goes into slow motion, cuts away right before their lips. I am wincing, even you describing the two of them. And then you can basically hear Michael Eisner being like, cut the picture, go to black.

And then the movie. I don't want to like, cut the picture, go to black. And then the movie. I don't want to see this. Only in its last 90 seconds deploys the one thing this film was clearly missing. Voiceover from Lorraine Bracco. So ex-fiance, I bet you're wondering what happened to me. It's been a while, two years in the jungle. A lot of things have changed.

They pan up. She's got this kind of like wardrobe now. She looks like she works at a fair trade co-op coffee shopping cream point. Sure, of course. Is that fair to say? Yeah, sure. She's got like one braid in her hair.

Oh my god. She's got like a sort of oversized aviator glasses. And then she's kept the tattoo, and then she's got this sort of patchwork, like half her previous Sort of like sense of fashion half now. She has become a tribal leader and her and Connery are marching them through the jungle She's walking. She's standing on top of rock With her own walking stick. Okay, and and just offhandedly mentions that they're married, right? And that's the end of the movie, in this narration.

This film got poor reviews, Griffin. Interesting. People said that it was somewhat miscast. Mm. And Owen Gleiberman said, it's not every day you get to see a performance as bad as Lorraine Bracco's in Medicine Man. Not really.

Roger Ebert said, I just think this is an interesting... Said she seemed to be acting in a high school play. Wow. Okay. But he also said, all the elements are here for a movie I would probably enjoy very much, but somehow they never come together. If this had been some dumb adventure movie, it probably would have been terrific.

That's the kind of point I feel like Ebert was so good at making, where he's like, this movie's a little too good to be fun, without actually being good. The shittier version of this is actually better. That is exactly right. It was a flop, but it did make 44 million American dollars. So that's money that a grownup drama would love to make now, I would say.

Would be thrilled. But basically it's its budget. So, you know, it wasn't like a hit. No. It opened Griffin on February 7th, 1992. So Valentine's Day approaching to $8.4 million. Number one at the box office. America chose the medicine man.

Wow. I mean, Connery was just... Powerful. He was gonna open a picture no matter what. Number two... is a thriller. Okay. A big hit of the early...

Hand that Rocks the Cradle. Wow. I just had a feeling. Yeah. The Hand that Rocks... Have you seen The Hand that Rocks the Cradle? The babysitter from Hell movie. Starring Rebecca DeMornay. I don't know that I ever saw it.

It feels like one of those ones that I probably saw, but I,'t know. It's basically a movie that gets unofficially remade every seven years. OK. The name is so famous. I mean, there's so many post-fatal attraction movies, which this is one. Maybe that's why I'm kind of conflating them. What if a woman entered your life,

a mysterious hot ingenue who you hired as a babysitter, or you got as a roommate, or you moved in next door to? The single white female, Hand the Rocks to Cripple. And it turned out her name was Rebecca D'Amour. woman entered your life, a mysterious hot ingenue, who you hired as a babysitter, or you got as a roommate, or you moved in next door to. Hand the rocks to critical. And it turned out her entire purpose in life was to fucking kill you. It's true.

And this one's Rebecca Dormornay wants to take out Annabella Shoren's like some fucking guy, I don't even know who the guy is in that movie. Yeah, that's a good question. To Curtis Hansen movie. So we could do it one day. We could do it, yeah. I feel like it's the best of the type of movie we're talking.

I think Single White Female is the better of those movies. Because Single White Female is unhinged. Yes. Number three at the box office, Griffin. Number three at the box office. Is new this week. You're never gonna get this. I like the challenge. Feel free to ask Jamie, obviously.

An erotic thriller from Phil Junot. Oh. Director Phil Junot, probably best known for making YouTube music videos. Fuck, no, but I think this came up in the box office website recently. It's maybe come up before. It's maybe come up before. Um, uh, fuck. Can you give me, um... the box office game website recently. It's maybe come up before. Um, uh, fuck.

Can you give me, um, the stars? Richard Gere? It's not Red Corner? Primal Fear? No. No. Great guess, no. Kim Basinger is the female lead here.

Yup, this movie came up. You've also got Uma Thurman. And you've got a guy who never appears in thrillers. This is a real swerve for him. Eric Roberts. Wow. Also Keith David and Paul Guilfoyle. I don't know.

This sounds pretty good. Um, yeah, it's about a psychiatrist treating someone for OCD. And then he uncovers. So it's like a psychiatrist title. Psychiatry, you know, sort of is what the title is playing off of. Uh, on the poster, I want to, they're kissing. There's a weird thing, Jamie, where I like always struggle with 80s, 90s Richard Gere titles outside of like the four big ones.

I do the, yeah, they all kind of blend together a little bit for me. It's like, right. Primal fear, pretty woman. Like there's like the one example in each of his modes that I know, and a lot of these feel totally lost in time. This movie is called, it's not called No Good Deed, but it's like, it's a psychiatric term. Oh no, it does have a...

It's a boring title, but it's a psychiatric sort of title. The film is called... Full-on Ape Shit? Final Analysis. Oh boy. Pretty dull title. I hate that title. But what's the tagline?

You seemed excited by the tagline. Oh no, I didn't. No, they were just kissing. What is the tagline? You just excited they're kissing on the poster. They're kissing on the poster! Okay. Here's the tagline, Jesus.

A psychiatrist and two beautiful sisters playing the ultimate mind game. Someone was seduced, someone was set up, and before it was over, dot dot dot, someone was dead. And then there's a second tagline, you wanna hear it? Yep, please. Hot-blooded passion, cold-blooded murder. Okay.

Uma Thurman is the other sister. Gotcha. Number four, The Box Office. It's a, what they call back in the 90s, a chick flick. One of the best. A sort of paramount example of the chick flick. It's not a, is it a generational ensemble movie? You bet.

Is it Fried Green Tomatoes? That's right. OK. Do you like Fried Green Tomatoes? The food. I did like it, yeah. I remember being kind of sad. It's a little sad.

How are you supposed to cry at the end? It's my godmother's favorite movie. When I was younger, though, I remember being kind of sad. It's a little sad. You're supposed to cry at the end. It's my godmother's favorite movie. When I was younger, though, I didn't like movies that made me cry. I was like, this is a bad feeling. Why would I pay to do this? Did you like horror movies? Yes, always. Interesting. So you don't mind being scared?

No, I don't mind being scared. I don't. I don't like, I hated E.T. Really? Yeah, I hate anything that made me really sad. I was just like, ugh, I never wanna watch that again, ever. It was like the equivalent of seeing something really gory on screen. Right, you don't care about that.

It was like emotionally gory. Like heads are flying. E.T. I loved, but the parent gets killed off at the beginning of a Disney movie thing. I was just like, this should be illegal. Right, like any Disney cartoon where like, you know, someone, a car crashes. We definitely talked about this, but my mom was like,

you want to go see Lion King? And I was like, the dad dies. What are you talking? I'm not going to go see that. What are you sick? What? You want to take me to a snuff film? Like, I had heard like, oh, and Mufasa died, and it's so sad. I'm like, yeah. Get ready for me to never watch that.

Yeah, I don't want to watch that. Number five. Just one of those fucking movies that doesn't exist. OK. I'm sorry I'm swearing so much. And the medicine man's angry at my blood. Oh, god, I swore so much. Am I not supposed to?

No, you swore so much you like. He's got a total body off. World War II drama. Big star. total bomb. World War II, big star, big bomb. Based on a book, you're never gonna get this. Is it based, I'm never gonna get this? No, no, you're not.

You're just not gonna get this one, you're not. I think I can. I don't think so. Like an A-lister? Yeah, he's an A-lister. He is, I mean, this is like one of his forgotten movies in between a bunch of hits. He's very hot in like the late 80s and early 90s. He's still alive.

He's still alive. Is he still working? Yeah, he's pretty old, but he's still working. I mean, he was in a hit Marvel movie this year. He was in a hit Marvel movie. I put hit in quotes because it wasn't really a hit, but compared to like the Marvels, it was a sensation. Is he in quantum mania?

Yeah. So it's a Douglas movie? Michael Douglas. And it's World War II. Yeah, but I don't think that helpful. And it's based on a book. Because it's like a romantic drama, I think. Oh. Yeah.

Who directed it? David Seltzer. Yeah, I'm never gonna get that., I think. Oh. Yeah. Who directed it? David Seltzer. Yeah, I'm never gonna get that. Ha, you admit it! Yeah. It's called Shining Through. Have not heard of it. Michael Douglas, Melanie Griffith, Liam Neeson.

Yeah, have never heard of that. Okay, well, I haven't either. Okay. And it didn't do well. Does Douglas play like an American soldier? You want me to read the synopsis of this fucking thing now? I kind of do, because I want to picture Douglas doing it.

I'm here trying to stop the Nazis. Looks like he plays a humorless attorney. Okay. Who is, I guess, a spy in Germany. Sounds kind of good. Yeah, I guess, a spy in Germany. Sounds kind of good. Yeah, I don't know. Well, it's about the two of them being spies in Germany during World War II.

I'm sure you have this as well, but you fall in this trap, you find a movie like this on Wikipedia, and you're like, holy shit, this fucking, this must be good, and you're watching, and you're like, this is why no one has ever talked about it. It's a bomb for a reason. It's just nothing.

Yeah. When you hear a synopsis, you're like, it could be good. It could be good. Like a synopsis of anything. Synopsis of stars. Maybe. Medicine Man isn't that though. Medicine Man, you hear the elements and you're like...

Yeah, you're like, I don't need to see that. That doesn't sound like it's gonna work. Right. That sounds like a mistake. Other movies at the box office. Honestly, a fun time. Steve Martin's Father, The Bride. Sure.

Slam Dunk. Total fun movie. Love that movie. Beauty and the Beast, heard of it? Pretty big. Yeah, big movie. JFK, heard of it? Yeah. The film Grand Canyon, not as big a hit,

I would say, the Larry Kasdan movie. Also Steve Martin. Steve Martin's fucking running the table. And Hook, Steven Spielberg's Hook. Is that, are these all holdovers from... They've all been out for like two to three months. Okay. They're just kind of swimming around.

Yeah, wild time. And number 11 of the box office is 35 Up, Griffin. Is the, uh, the... fifth? Yeah, fourth or fifth of the, uh, ongoing documentary series. Is someone picking it up now that the after is done? I assume someone will. Do you know what these are?

The Up movies. So it's like a documentary was made in the 60s to like chronicle British children called Seven Up. Oh yeah, I heard about this. Where they interviewed children from like all walks of life in Britain and then every seven years they check in with them. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

I remember this. And they released 63 Up in 2019. So I guess that means the director has died. But he didn't direct the first one. So, you know, someone else could take that. Right. Like, you know, it was a group project. Sure, sure.

So 70 up would be due in 2026. So hopefully someone's fucking working on that. I hope so. I bet they are. I feel like they gotta keep that going. It's just such a valuable franchise. Yeah. To let that die on the line.

That kind of IP is just, you know you know, if Disney acquires the ups Look, we know Marvel and Star Wars have been faltering for us a little bit. So we need to make a big ticket Well, look Disney owns medicine man, and I'm told Lorraine Brockes character will be Replacing Kang of course, it's the new big big bad for the next phase of the MCU You fucking Avengers I Want to see her as this I hear her as a seagull as the angry seagull I contend she is good in that movie Yeah, it sounds like a good role for her casting. Yeah. Yes, and that movie is such a nightmare But when she shows up, it has a little energy

Like get nominated for things no it has a little energy. Wait, is that the one that, didn't it get nominated for things? No, that's the Guillermo del Toro one that's about fascism and is interesting. It's loaded with ideas and is nice to look at. And one in Oscar. And the Zemeckis one is like, what if we did a CG version of the Disney movie that looked like garbage and Tom Hanks is in a bed asleep

with his eyes fully closed, and we pay him $20 million? Is he, who does he... Oh, he plays Gepetto. And he's like, oh Pinocchio, see you later. So it's a TD Bank and my routing number is this. It's a live action, but it's 90% CGI goop. Oh, that's so uncomfortable.

Joseph Gordon-Levitt plays Jiminy Cricket, a role I read for. Oh, that seems like that would be a fun role, I feel like. But. I think it would be fun to do. I will say it's not fun to watch what he did. Oh wow, I can't even imagine him. Jiminy Cricket sucks. I mean you wanna.

I thought he was a funny one. But he's just the one who shows up and is like, Pinocchio, stop being naughty. He's folksy, yeah, he's got a little hat. In the original Italian book, the cricket goes up and's like, Pinocchio, stop being naughty. He's folksy. He's folksy. Yeah, he's got a little hat. Yeah. In the original Italian book, the cricket goes up and he's like, stop lying to your father. Pinocchio kills him.

Right. And then he is not in the rest of the book. Yes. Pinocchio's like, shut up, bug, smash. I'm out of here. I haven't seen like the original or like the older Disney Pinocchio in a long time, but I always imagine Geppetto being like the seagull in The Little Mermaid, but he's not, you're saying.

I always thought he was like kind of the fun. He's sort of a kindly grandfather. Okay, okay, I thought he was like the fun, kooky sidekick, but he's not. The seagull in Little Mermaid is essentially just like trying to get Ariel laid. Like I love Scuttle, because he's basically like,

Yeah, Scuttle's incredible. I found you another hottie on this boat, let's go. That's kind of the role that Bracco's filling, that they add to Pinocchio, that Jiminy Cricket's like his folksy-like conscious, and then Geppetto just looks like an older version of the man on the pizza box, who just mostly lies awake in bed and goes,

oh no, my boy. Where did Pinocchio go? I made him on the world. Pinocchio's on his journey, and he's like, oh no, my boy. Where'd the Pinocchio go? I made him out of wood. Pinocchio's on his journey and he's like, I was about to fall. And they- There's so much imagery in movies, thinking of like Wonka with,

there's just a lot of imagery of older, like parental figures just in bed. Yes. There's so much of that. There used to be Culturally when people turned 30 they would go great lie in bed and they've done with a terminal case of being old Yeah, they're weary bones Cuz that's the thing Charlie bucket is what like seven years old or how old he's supposed to be Yeah, it's like 710. Well, it's whose grandparents probably aren't even that

Post-war. They might be our age. They honestly might be younger. It's like a Simpsons thing where it's like, yeah, Homer's 37 or whatever. And his parents might be 18. Oh yeah, the parents. I was thinking of Grandpa Joe. I'm like, Grandpa Joe. Grandpa Joe's probably like, yeah, 42.

Yes. He's probably like, you know, doing Zooms from his bed. For sure. Honestly, he's in his prime. Yeah. He's on field. He's trying to like, you know, get something started. He's like, I'm in a four person bed situation. I already sleep with three other people every night.

Everybody wants to join. I don't get out of bed for anything less than a golden ticket. Right. But if you got one of those, I will get up and dance. Yeah, I abs- my, these legs work, baby. They work. You got a solid chunk on Grandpa Joe. You really do.

I read those books so many times as a kid, and they really, when you're a kid, you're just like, I get it, the grandparents sleep in a big bed. Like, I have no questions. Sure. Like, that's what the magic of the doll books is, is you totally buy into whatever weird scenario.

You do. Whatever world they set up, you're like, okay. And then you can ponder endlessly as an adult, being like, what the fuck was that? Like, that's crazy. I think over the span of five years, SNL did two different sketches that were riffing on how weird it is that the grandparents

all sleep in the bed together. And they were not treated as like, oh, it's a recurring schedule now. Just someone else is like, wait a minute. Isn't it also the configuration of how they're in the bed? Like, aren't two people against the headboard and then like the others are on the other side? It's head to toe, head to toe, head to toe.

And it's two beds put together. Right, right. Is that it? I think. Yeah, it probably is. It's sort of part of the idea is like they're in this multi-generation house with like one bed, right?

Yes. Like I don't even know where the buckets sleep. I don't know how they made Charlie. Like not to be crass. They got on top of the grandparents over the covers. Oh boy. We gotta be done. Yeah, with that, let's wrap up.

Jamie, thank you so much for doing this. Oh, thanks for having me guys. Thanks for coming. This was a real treat, this movie. Sorry we made you watch this movie. No, I thought it was really fun to talk about it. Okay, good. It's sort of the intern of its time, right?

It is, oh yeah, the intern. I was thinking, I was like, what was the movie that we covered? Intern's good. Intern is way better than this movie. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right, I got a pain. Okay, both of you. Oh than this movie. Yeah. Yeah for sure. Yeah I got a pain. Okay. Oh, no. No. No, Jamie's got anything you need to plug Oh, you can just you can follow me on Instagram at really Jamie Lee and yeah more to more to come you are you going on?

Tour I have some dates. Yeah. Yeah, and they're our you've been yes Yes, and they're all like all my dates are listed on there's a link on my Instagram You're one of the best out there truly such a fan of your work always I regretted missing your you were working through it. Yes, but I'm gonna do it again. Okay. Yeah Yeah, I did an hour at Union Hall and I think I'm gonna it was really fun and productive. So I'm gonna do it again amazing Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me, guys. Of course. And thank you all for listening.

Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. David is running to the bathroom. Thank you to Marie Barty, our associate producer on the show. Thank you to Joe Bohn and Pat Rounds for our artwork. JJ Birch for our research. This one, I think, took some real digging to get any quotes on Medicine Man. AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our research. This one I think took some real diggin to get any quotes on Medicine Man. AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our editing, Lay Montgomery, the great American novel for our theme song. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit including blank check special features, our Patreon where we do commentaries on film series. We're still

in Terminators at this point, I think. But we're also gonna be doing Die Hard 2 over there to fill in the gap of the one non-McTiernan Die Hard in that original trilogy. We are, yes, we are still in Terminator land and just about a week ago, we will have covered Die Hard 2. So that is a thing I direct you towards. Ben and I just kind of staring each other down now. David's flushing the toilet. Jamie's putting her coat on.

Tune in next week for... Well, the good thing is McTiernan rebounded with a very simple, easy production. A movie that landed to universal acceptance. Last action here. A movie that is basically like the too big to fail moment for like 90s studio filmmaking. He really has his peaks and valleys, it's true. Yes. Dick is out.

Tune in for that. Dick is out? And as always, Pop, pop, fish, fish. I thought you said Dick is out. out and as always pop pop fish fish I thought you said dick is out no he said take us out