Blank Check with Griffin & David - Miami Vice - Pilot Episode

Episode Date: August 1, 2019

Griffin and David review the 1984 Miami Vice television series pilot entitled "Brother's Keeper" in a special b-b-b-b-bonus episode, reference the term 'podfade' from a recent New York Times article and examine the careers of Don Johnson and Philip Michael Thomas. 

Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check Hey! Hey! Great start. I couldn't find any quotes for this.

Um, I mean, it's a quotey episode though, right? I mean, they do say a bunch of stuff. Yeah, but what am I gonna, am I gonna scrub through the episode and transcribe something? That's more work than I've ever put into this. Now, now. Not this podcast. I put a lot of work into this podcast, but in terms of

the opening, you can attest. You go to IMDB, you find a quote. Usually Ben says we're recording and I go, wait, wait, wait, wait. I need to look up a quote. I do it at the last possible second. So I watch the episode. Can you feel it coming in the podcast tonight? I could do something like that.

Or I was like, is there a tagline for when the pilot premiered? But you know what? I just, I don't fucking feel like it. Here's the honest truth. We're going to give you a good episode. And this is a little bonus. We're giving you extra goods. And in certain ways, this is a mea culpa.

Right. Because we gave you a little less episode last time. Sorry. Okay. All right, here comes Ben. Here comes Ben. Producer Ben here. I had to cut the last 30 minutes.

There's nothing to be done. Equipment failure. These things happen. It's not going to happen again, though, right?. There's nothing to be done. Equipment failure. These things happen. It's not going to happen again, though, right? It's not going to happen again. That episode we just recorded, that great episode, that's all safe in here, right? We saved that? Yes, sir.

David's tapping on the sound mixer. Well, you know, we've been at it for close to three hours. We've been at it. This is our second episode of the day. We just recorded a real good one, a real hot one. But also, audio boom just moved. Big move from the 6th floor to the 14th floor. Well, no, we don't need to.

It's just these things happen. We've done hundreds of episodes together. Everyone's getting moved. We're rushing. Every once in a while, you're going to have audio that's just going to get corrupted. I think it's still a good episode. I'm sorry that things got cut off. The box office game got cut off. What else do you remember? There was some talk

of Jesse James. There was some Jesse James talk and then I had a really funny joke where I talked about how Fran took me to the Philharmonic and I realized how they're basically just a cover band. Fuck, we lost that? That was a really good bit. I forgot about that bit. Maybe we need to

work harder. We gotta apologize more yeah all right well maybe i'll revisit some it was also because i had to get it out because we had the deadline and i discovered it last minute this is the other thing i want to be very clear about okay we got a whole ad sales thing in place now we can't fuck with release dates we can't put things out late no No. And we've been recording a lot. We have. We've had a bit of a flurry. We've had a bit of a third. A McFlurry. Well, we had some vacations.

Ben went somewhere. I went somewhere. You went somewhere. So we've had a little break, and then we had a flurry. Right. So we were trying to record things before the vacation, and then when we were all on vacation, I thought that maybe I was going to get a job. There was a brief panic over, oh my God, we have to bank a zillion things at once.

I would be away for like over two months. And then, of course, we were reminded that I am unhirable. My career was over. But there was a brief window where Hollywood was like, Do you know who beat you up yet? No. Can I say what I know about why I didn't get the job? Okay.

They wanted to save money by hiring someone local because this shoot would have filmed in a place. And let me explain this to David. There was a country called England. That's true. It's part of the United Kingdom. Yeah. Why are you saying yeah? Oh, I know the general details.

I've heard of it. I live there. I feel like he's, it's come up. Wait, I'm sorry. It's come up. I'm sorry. Rewind the tape for a second. Yeah.

You said you've heard of it. Yeah. And then what was the thing you said after that? What? 13 years. 13 years, fellas. I feel like this is... I don't know.

I feel like it's come up. I'm going to say this. I'm going to say it in the vaguest terms possible. Because they're a secretive company. Okay? Sure. Yeah. I was up for a thing that would have been on Netflix.

Okay. That could be any one of literally 5 million shows. What do you mean? We only have a couple things, right? On that Netflix? They were like... They have The Office. Yeah, we have The Office and Friends.

Were you going to be on one of those? I can't comment further. Alright, fine. It's probably The Office. Fuck. That's a good show. I can't comment further. You're probably just going to splice them into season 3. I just want to explain this setup, okay? They were pointedly like, we think it would be good to have one American person on this show.

Oh, sure. I was up for a position that was like, we want an American. It's like an English show, but we'd like an American element. Right. Kind of throw the balance off in a fun way. And we were having the conversations about like, do you think you'd want to live here? How many times would you want to fly back? You

would live in England. I mean, the bit potential was so rich. I was so excited to be able to call in. It was honestly, it seems like the biggest draw for you in total. Unquestionably the hugest draw. The bit potential was going to

be through the roof, okay? But we were like having those logistical conversations that were like, would you rather live in a major city or like in the countryside closer to where we're filming or like it wasn't that, you know, paperwork wasn't beside, but it was like, this feels like it's going to happen. They clearly have like designed this

to be able to hold a hiring an American actor and flying them over and working out the work visa and all of that. And then Netflix announced that they had lost subscribers and then their stock dropped. And then within two hours, they said, yeah, I think we're going to hire someone from England. Wow. So it was the vagaries of the stock market. Instantaneous. wow so it was it was the vagaries of the stock market instantaneous like they they had they finally had a quarter where they didn't add subscribers and that was that and i don't want

to say the job was in the palm of my hands but let's say you were let's say maybe i was one of three american contenders who knows in the running right right at the right up there and then suddenly the entire notion of the position existing warped right all right well, well, what can you do? The stock market. It's the stock market. Can't control that, fucker. The industry's terrible and I don't have a career. But, the point is... You have a podcast. I have a podcast, thank God. And we were recording episodes

like mad and Ben only checked the public enemies thing right before it was gonna go out. You had done most of it and then you were like, okay, let me check in on the end of this one. We've been putting a lot of work on your plate recently because we've been recording overtime. Yeah I mean it's just my mom it was her birthday. She's 75 years old. Happy birthday. Yeah.

75. I know it's crazy. I forgot that your parents had you older. Older parents. So I came back and I just wanted to do my last sort of like double check on finishing out the episode adding in the sound effects and that's when I was just like, this is unlistenable.

You know, even like taking the time, delaying the publish. Like, yeah, it was just, you guys were, it was like a CD skipping.

You said, yep, it is definitely double edged sword where I remember the last time that this really happened was, uh, uh, Batman versus Superman. Right.

Where we had to release like a, a very cut down episode. Oh my God. Cause we were like, it was a similar audio issue. Same thing. This is just not really comprehensible so we save the pieces we can save. And with that one it was all over the place. At least with this we mostly just lost

the end, right? Yeah, but there's a little bit of classical music in the middle there. I cut the music because people were complaining to me. Right. But people Oh, so you re-upload it without the music? It's fine, yeah. This is what I was going to say. Right. But people, oh, so you re-upload it without the music? It's fine, yeah. This is what I was going to say, okay? This is what I was going to say.

When the Batman vs. Superman episode came out, people liked it. And they were like, man, how incredible. Could have done with more. Put in the work to save it. And it's now the double-edged sword of people like our podcast enough that everyone was furious. Not everyone, but some people. But I think all three of us on Sunday were like sweating it. Yeah.

Because we got the text from you and I was like, what's going on? And then I woke up to like, I mean, we know what the culprit is here. We know what happened to the last 30 minutes of the episode. Podfade. Oh, it was podfade. New York Times called it. Damn it. Podcasting's over. I'm not enjoying this. No, no. It's podfade. Oh, it was Podfade. New York Times called it. Damn it. Podcasting's over.

Ben's not enjoying this. No, no. It's Podfade. I am enjoying this. I mean, it's like, you know. It was Podfade. It's Podfade. You know, the New York Times,

they need to probably contact me. They do. To do a follow-up about this sort of new sort of thing in the podcast space. You should probably do a little press conference and sit down with New York Times for like an exclusive first interview. But I just think, I mean, God.

The first guy diagnosed with pod... Podfate? Yeah. I think in a world where two people can't cynically put the smallest amount of effort into producing three episodes of a podcast with extreme entitlement. I think they made six.

The podfaces. They made six. Four years ago. Yeah, I know. I mean, if the industry can't help them, doing a podcast about a subject they claim, they themselves admit have no knowledge or expertise in. They put minimal effort into,

only to try to make money. Proudly. Grow their brand. They proudly said they want to put a lot of work in. It clearly means that this art form is done. And it also means that now the episodes being produced by people who do care about what they do are going to start fading. Yeah, this biz is obviously built on quicksand. This, of course, is an episode on the pilot for Miami Vice.

But I'll just say that I appreciate the passion. I do too. We all appreciate the passion. I take constructive criticism. Well, it's not really your fault. It's perfect. Really just this little fucker right here.

But these things happen. Anyway, you got a bonus episode. So here's the bonus episode. We're giving it to you right now it is our man bonus it is a Thursday bonus little Thursday bonus it is about something he neither wrote nor directed but nonetheless

we're sort of intimately involved with which is often what we like to do which is the episode Brothers Keeper pilot of Miami Vice 1984 two hour with commercials. Pilot episode for a game changing TV show. It is weird that he neither wrote nor directed this.

Written by Thomas Carter. I'm sorry, written by Anthony Yerkovich, directed by Thomas Carter. Thomas Carter, who later went on to direct Coach Carter. That's true. He made Swing Kids. He made Save the Last Dance. Did a lot of TV. He was a TV actor originally. Then became a TV director. Then made Swing Kids. He made Save the Last Dance. Did a lot of TV. He was a TV actor originally, then became a TV director, and then became a film director.

Yeah. Off of this. I mean, this was so huge. Kind of that classic old-fashioned Hollywood, like, yeah, kid, you know. But being able to say, I think. You've been around a set. Right. You did the Miami Vice pilot.

That's a calling card. It's a pretty tremendous pilot. People took note. Yeah. I mean, someone someone i saw some quote that said uh just spilled mints everywhere and now the episode is ruined oh pod fade there are mints god it was pod in the mixing board they're fading into the mixing board pod fade strikes again go on they said that everything in television

had sort of looked the same until the Miami Vice pilot. They were like, there was the one big shift from black and white to color. But there was a pretty limited language in terms of how television looked. Partly because of the schedule, like how

quickly you have to make these things. Technical limitations. Right. All of these things. Technical limitations. Right. All of these things. And, you know, a language developed around, you know, a smaller screen and how people process visual information differently in half-hour chunks, in, you know, 12-inch stretches, you know, whatever. 100%. I mean, this show is coming after what we'd say is like the sort of the dawn of, you know, prestige, golden age TV, like Hill Street Blues, saying elsewhere. Like, you know, the shows where it's like, oh, like people start finally being like television is kind of an art form.

They're elevating it. But I feel like it was always like the thing that's being elevated is the writing, the level of the writing or the honesty of the performances. They're dealing with tougher subjects or greater emotions. There's more realism. There's more grit. There's more social honesty. Once again, that was often the language and the acting.

These shows still kind of would look the same. And then this is a show that looks and sounds very different. Very cinematic. But also we should say MTV the music television channel. Music television? What? Wait.

Music television? Clearly you're putting a period between those two words. Those are two completely separate art forms. Music comma television. Put them together. What? Music television MTV had launched in 1981 and had become a sensation. Yeah.

And so, right, isn't that the famous story about Miami Vice is that, wait, who is it? They pitch MTV Cops. Yeah, but I think it was someone, Anthony Yerkovich, who wrote the pilot of Miami Vice and was a producer on it, worked on Hill Street Blues, which was this. And then this NBC executive. It's the NBC executive. Tartikoff? Brandon Tartikoff?

Isn't it Tartikoff? I approached him and was like, here's the pitch. MTV Cops. And Yurkovich was like, Miami. We could do it in Miami. That's a sexy city, right? Yeah, it's Tartikoff. Yeah, he wrote a brainstorming memo that read MTV Cops.

That's the legend. How and when does Michael Mann get involved? It's a good question, actually. So you start pretty early. Yeah, I think pretty much from when it's getting in. It's, you know, but he wasn't there for that germ moment. Of MTV cops. No. It was Tartikoff who supposedly came up with it.

That he claims like it wasn't like that. I read an article about acid forfeiture. And like you know it went from there. Like he tries to downplay the sort of sexiness of it. But that was sort of where. More visual stylization was coming into TV was through music videos and commercials. Yes. Right?

But yeah, and I guess just very early on, the production company is Michael Mann Productions. So like Mann is just involved. He's kind of the showrunner, I think, for the first two seasons. After that, I think his involvement in Miami Vice is very limited. But it's weird because he was in title only an executive producer but kind of functioned like the showrunner. Yeah, I think he was the showrunner. Never wrote an episode,

never directed an episode, but you watch this and you're like... He wrote one episode. He wrote one episode called Golden Triangle. It was the 14th episode of the first season. Two-parter.

We should have watched that. We could have. We could have. He didn't direct it. He just wrote it. And it's like he co-wrote it. Okay. Oh. Two-parter. We should have watched that. We could have. We could have. He didn't direct it. He just wrote it. And it's like he co-wrote it. Okay. Yeah.

Mm-mm. But I just think this is... It's so much a part of his legacy. Oh, totally. Yeah. No, but I was just going to say, this is like one of the first shows that's like,

what if the entire show looked like a music video? Right. Or looked like a commercial? Um, which, I feel like sometimes people use that as a complaint against things that are pretty. Yeah. Like,

whatchamacallit, Luca Guadagnino I Am Love. Sure. I remember when that came out, people were like, it's just like a two-hour perfume commercial. And I'm like, perfume commercials look good. That's not a problem. Everything else in the movie is good. It's got a good script and really good acting i don't like they're saying it's a negative that the thing is really visually right like it's one of those things where it means like style over substance when you're using that insult right like but i think i feel distracted

by the prettiness look there are examples of that but i think most often when people say that they mean i am distracted by the prettiness and this is one of the first shows that was like, it was viewed as if you have that much style, you're overcompensating. You're covering for something else. You know, I think that was always sort of the perception. If you're too flashy, what are you, what are you covering for? Right. And this was a show that was like, no, the flash is the thing. And also the thing is the thing. Right. We're going to do both.

We're going to do like, try to write like Hill Street Blues level scripts and have real grounded performances and make it all look fucking awesome. And part of man's thing, I'm sure you read this. No earth tones. None. No red. Out of here. No brown. No earth tones. None. No red. Out of here. No brown. No.

No. No. Neon. Blue. Right. Pink. Purple. Ellie.

This show kind of single-handedly elevates men's fashion in the United States. Like people were not, American men were not interested in Italian suits. Right. Yeah. Right. You know?

You have to dress well. Right. Anything like that. I mean, there was just like, there was a very standard like, this is a well-d Italian suits. Right, yeah, right. You know? How to dress well. Right, anything like that. I mean, there was just like, there was a very standard like, this is a well-dressed man. Well, like Brooks Brothers versus, you know, any Italian maker.

Creative fashion, if you want to say, you know, outside of a standard formal wear. Yes, right. That he brought all the Italian fashion stateside, which there was not really a market for Italian fashion for men in the United States. And it boomed after this. But it's just that classic...

The shoes. Shoes, no socks. White blazer. Maybe like a pastel light blue or pink shirt. Maybe not even a collared shirt. Sunglasses. Slick back hair. And often the sleeves are a little short.

Skinny tie. If he's wearing a tie. I guess Tubbs has a skinny tie on. Don Johnson. You said this in our Miami Vice episode. I think it's accurate. He looks like what people think they look like when they're on cocaine. People who are like, yeah man, I look like Don Johnson.

I've never felt better. They look like Colin Farrell. Right. At best. They look like Don Johnson. Right. They look like they haven't washed in a week. Don Johnson. Very pretty.

David's taking a bite. Here. Gonna hand David a bag of pretzels. He's a snack. He's a snack. And we lost more listeners. It was kind of startling to watch us and be like, God damn it, is that a beautiful man?

Right. That is a very, very pretty person. We should say with Mim, his trajectory is, he made the Jericho Mile, right? He'd worked on TV shows before then. He makes the Jericho Mile. Then he goes off, He makes Thief. So good.

I forgot we got to do our ranking at the end of this episode. Go on. He goes off. He makes Thief. He makes Manhunter. And then he's back. And he's bringing those kind of neon sensibilities to this show. The neon noir.

Yes. And then he makes, oh, he, no, I'm sorry. He hadn't made Manhunter. Manhunter's 86. It's in the middle of this. Okay.

He had only made The Keep. Thief in the Keep. Crazy. Manhunter's 86. He's made a very well-regarded debut and he's made a disastrous horror film that was taken away from him. Right.

Yeah. Had a good role-playing game. Had a really good role-playing game. And we will continue it. On the Patreon. David's. What is he doing? He's slam dunking?

Two thumbs up? He's doing the two boner fingers? He's pointing to the sky? I feel like athletes do that a lot. Giving it up to God? Yeah, okay. Give it up to the big man upstairs. Okay, fine. I will give it up to the sky? I feel like athletes do that a lot. Giving it up to God? Right, right. Yeah, okay. Give it up to the big man upstairs. Okay, fine.

I will give it up to the big man upstairs. Have you ever seen Miami Vice before? I had never seen an episode. I'd certainly seen a lot of clips. I feel like maybe I've, you know, been channel surfing, caught a bit. I've never sat down and watched a proper episode. I don't think I have either. I may have, like, caught an episode or two just in reruns.

I was surprised by how successfully this kind of plays as a self-contained film. Yeah. This plays great. Because I always thought of Ami Weiss as like, oh, it's a very stylish procedural. Right. Which I think it does sort of evolve into. Sure. But this is very much an emotional story.

Right. You know, with some crime at the middle of it. But this is very much a character. It has an arc. It is a classic pilot. They kind of don't make them anymore. It used to be, anytime you watch a TV show,

we're talking into the 2000s, you'd have to watch the pilot first and be like, oh right, this is like a movie. And then the second episode might be on different sets. Maybe even actors will have been swapped out. And the second episode is going to be

an extremely lame reintroduction of everything. Yeah. Because they shot this nine months earlier. They often would shoot the pilot as a backdoor sort of thing where, well, if it doesn't work, then we just air it as a TV movie. We can just put it on. No matter what, we get the value

of it. So make a slightly higher value, more self-contained, hour, 40 40 minute narrative. And if it works, we do it as a series. And a lot of those would get released theatrically. Sometimes like something right. In Europe. Some TV movies as well, like Jericho Mile.

But like, you know, Battlestar Galactica was released as a film. Right. Not a bad pilot, even though it's a total ripoff of Star Wars. Yeah, never seen it. But right. film right uh a lot of these not a bad pilot even though it's a total ripoff of star wars yeah never seen it um but right i just mean like if you're sitting someone down and you're like let's watch the x-files pilot like or what it's like it's gonna feel like a little movie about these two people meeting and having an adventure and you know like you know and there'll be some dangling stuff but it will kind of be complete well that's the weird thing about pilots, and this is finally kind of shifting now because of the way the industry works.

But you kind of have to make a pilot that works as a complete thing but also simultaneously sets the stage for how you could make years of this thing. Right. Which is almost impossible to do both simultaneously. Where, like, anyone who's watching a pilot, whether it's a focus group or the executives themselves, they want to watch it and be like, I feel a sense of completion watching this. I feel satisfaction watching this, but also I see the profitability.

Entertain me, but proof of concept. Right. It's got to be both at the same time. That's insane. Which is why I usually don't like pilots. They're usually bad. When I was a TV critic, I would often be like,

yeah, you kind of have to get past the pilot. And I would admire pilots if they sort of found have to get past the pilot and I would admire pilots if they sort of found a way to do what you're talking about like the Freaks and Geeks pilot is one of the great pilots

cheers my so called life cheers my so called life is arguably the best episode of the show until maybe it's like last two

do you have a go to answer for the best pilot of all time is there one that jumps out to you Freaks and Geeks is usually my answer I think the Six Feet Under pilot I think the Six Feet all time? Is there one that jumps out to you? Freaks and Geeks is usually my answer.

I think the Six Feet Under pilot I think the Six Feet Under pilot that's a show that I am mixed on. Yeah. But I think that pilot is basically a fantastic movie. Like the ending

is like pretty phenomenal. Yeah. You don't really need to make more Six Feet Under. Yeah. Like they made a show and the show is up and you know

it has a lot of great stuff in it. But like the way that ends you're kind of like wow that was kind of great. Yeah. Good story. Law and order. on order really set up there's gonna be law and look they wrote a big check for themselves in terms of having to set up both of those things right in one pilot but i saw that and i was like i could see this i get it i i and i and i got room for the ampersand in the middle. Trying to think of other great pilots.

The West Wing has a great pilot. Do you like NYPD Blues? I love NYPD Blues. I don't know if the pilot... Ben's talking about NYPD Blues, which is a jazz club that he goes to where off-duty cops play the sax. NYPD Blues. I'm trying to think of this. the sax.

NYPD blues. I'm trying to think of this. Someone's thinks they're funny. Someone's in a mood. The Sopranos pilot. That's the other one. The ducks leave. Sure.

I've never seen the Sopranos pilot. I highly recommend it. The Sopranos pilot is bulletproof. It has this whole arc with the ducks in the pool. The ducks leave at the end.

And you're like, again, you're sort of like, I understand that this is setting things up. We're meeting characters. There's going to be more of this. But I do feel very emotionally satisfied. But isn't that that weird thing where you're like, the best pilots of all time also end on a note where you're like, they could have just not made the show. This would work as its own thing. But you wouldn't have met the supporting characters. I agree. I'm not saying

the show would be better off if it hadn't done it, but for a pilot to really work as its own thing, it needs to feel like it doesn't need the rest of a series. And very often there are things where it's like when Community aired, I was like, I don't really like this episode. I see how it could become a good show.

I don't think the pilot's very good. 30 Rock is like that. Right, 30 Rock's the same thing. Like, a lot of comedy shows are like, this sets the stage for what I could see myself enjoying. There's a lot of room for growth. I'm going to give it three weeks to see if they, like, find the tone. Yeah, I mean, the classic test,

especially when I used to write about TV, is like, the second episode, write it off. It's going to be bad. The second episode of every TV show is bad. It's everybody restating their business. It's universal. It's always bad. I'm trying to think what the best second episode there might be good ones there's almost none okay the third episode is or the fourth is usually where it's like here's maybe a second writer is coming in they're trying to sort of be like here's how this

show is going to work now yeah you know what i mean like the lost pilot is a great pilot it's this action adventure it's crazy yeah the second episode is a great pilot. It's this action adventure. It's crazy. Yeah. The second episode is the Kate episode that's kind of like introducing Kate and like oh she's a woman of mystery and you're like well okay fine. You know and like but of course then the third episode is technically episode four but yet because the pilot's a two-parter is Walkabout

where they're like here is the limits of our imagination on this and you're like holy shit. Like oh my god. That's what they're going for. I also think that's the point in production where the actors and the characters start to fuse a little bit. And so A, the writers are starting

to go like, oh, here's what this actor can do. Let's write to them. And B, the actors are starting to take a little more authorship of the character, which is an exciting thing to see that you don't get to see in plays because even if someone's playing the character a thousand times an exciting thing to see that you don't get to see in plays because even if someone's playing the character a thousand times, the text is remaining the same.

Yes. Or in movies, the idea of it being an ongoing thing, and especially in traditional broadcast models, the thing where it's like episode four is airing and that person is shooting episode seven or eight, and they're getting the feedback of what the audience is responding to. The writers, the directors, the actors. And they're reacting to that and going like, ooh, double down on this. Drop this. I miss that.

This is the other thing I wanted to say. As a creative pipeline. The thing is pilot episodes now are kind of dead. Yeah. Usually a show has already been ordered to 13 episodes or whatever by Netflix or whoever. So it's like the pilot episodes really just 10 minutes of plot. Right. Like it feels like this very squishy setup be like kind of nothing happens.

Right. I'd say one of two things happens. Either someone sells a series and then they just start writing the whole thing. Right. Or someone writes a pilot as sort of a writing sample. Yeah. And they commit to doing a full season off the pilot script. But by the time they shoot it,

they have already written the other episodes. So they've maybe rejiggered it. Amazon was still doing pilots. I think it was one of the last Amazon pilots. Right, because Amazon had that old-fashioned like, we'll show you the pilot, and then a year later you'll see a show. Right. And it's a thing that still irks me

where there's shit like that we had to change the suit two more times. Right. Because the pilot suit was literally, I don't think I've ever said this on a podcast, the suit they built got partially confiscated by the TSA when they were flying it from LA to New York. And someone had to pull a fucking 48-hour mad rush to completely construct and engineer a new mechanical suit for Peter. Right.

And we just were like, well, we have to film this. Right. And we shot a pilot with a suit that looks like fucking hot diarrhea and where he couldn't hear anybody or could barely move. He does look crazy in the pilot. And then like 10 months later, we were just like, well, the suit's different now. Right. We couldn't reshoot the whole thing. What are you going to do?

But that's what pilots were always like. It was like oh that's weird they didn't realize that character isn't British yet. These major shifts happened in the first couple episodes and now everything is like no it's really like a 10 hour movie. Yeah well right. It's like they shot the pilot at that

school but then that school got knocked down or another show had it, so they finally built some sets, so now every episode, the school's going to look different. But even if it's less clean, I feel like we're all guys who like being able to watch that evolution happen. Like, it's fun. There's something

exciting about watching a show figure itself out in a way that can only happen in that model. I've been watching all of Seinfeld and like watching the evolutions of it. The Seinfeld Chronicles. That was the pilot. Elaine's not in it. They thought the only female character was going to be the waitress. Kramer's called Kessler? Yeah.

Weird. And he's just like kind of like a schmo. Yeah, he's just like a little weird. Right. And you watch like over the course of the season, they're like what if the hair's like a little bit taller? Like every episode they push the hair a little bit. And yes I don't know who it was but someone was like

can we have a woman in this that's not just an all-knowing waitress who's like Seinfeld you crazy. Right the waitress character sucks. She's not great. Yeah. God she must be like a piece of fucking wrench. Right? Isn't she like the Pete Best or whoever the fifth beetle was

That's what I thought was going to happen with Mulaney Oh, so you'd watch it like Stratosphere That I would be like the seventh friend People would be like, you know, weirdly, Griffin Newman was once in it Then he was written out due to incompetence We assume. Who knows? He hasn't been heard from again. He walked into the sea

Right I was going to make a joke about why people would know my name we assume. Who knows? He hasn't been heard from again. He walked into the sea. Right. I was going to make a joke about why people would know my name. Walking into the sea is nicer than committed some sort of awful slaughter. Oh, God. Yeah. All right. Miami Vice, though. Miami Vice, though.

Great pilot. Great pilot. And it even feels like- When that theme hits. Yeah. Wait, what were you going to say, man? Arrested development pilot. Great pilot. Great pilot. And it even feels like... When that theme hits. Yeah. Wait, what were you going to say, man? Arrested Development pilot. Good pilot.

Good pilot. That's a good comedy pilot. And then it's introducing you to the format of that show. And it's stylistic. Yeah. Good pilot, but episode three, I think, is bringing a buster. It's like when you go like, fuck, this is a great show. They figured it out.

So it's to your point. I think so. That one I watch and I go like, really good pieces. There's good stuff here. There's some shows where you show someone the pilot, they're like, I can't wait to see point. I think so. That one I watch and I go like, really good pieces. There's good stuff here. There's some shows where you show someone the pilot, they're like, I can't wait to see 50 of these. Some shows where you show them the pilot with the caveat of like, okay, so this is going to be intro and we're going to get there.

You know, well, you're going to settle into this show. I'm going to the bathroom now. You're going to the bathroom? Jesus Christ. This is what we're going to talk about. What are we going to talk about? We're not going to do bits. Okay. Real talk. Real talk. We're going to talk about What are we going to talk about? We're not going to do bits Okay

Real talk Real talk We're going to see Kong later We're seeing King Kong tonight We're seeing the big boy himself On B-Way It's about to close It is closing

To Not great reviews No And a massive Massive financial write-off. Yeah. No, I don't think that they walked away with money. No, no.

They walked away with negative money, with anti-money. Yeah. But I think you said, I got to see the big boy, and I said, I got to see this puppet. And so we have met in the middle in unison saying,

we got to see this big public. Well, I tried to get tickets to the island. You wanted to go to Skull Island. I wanted, and it was so expensive. No Airbnb. This time of year in August? Tiptoeing into August? Yeah, it's like prime travel season.

Right. Tons of people love to vacation on Skull Island. Yeah, so this felt like the more accessible thing and the show is doing so poorly they are actually paying us to go see yeah not because of this podcast or the platform

we were just walking down the street and someone was like please please they literally just gave us $50 to say please come back here at 7 tonight it almost felt like a monkey paw situation I'm like have we inherited some sort of curse? Well, that's the thing. I don't think we'll be cursed. I don't either.

I think we're going to have a great time. Honestly, I think it's going to be really cool. You know what I mean? It's a big fucking puppet. It's like huge. I'll tell you what my concern is. I think we might have too good of a time. I'm going to have to keep going back until it closes finally.

Yeah, and you have a very limited window. There's like 10 performances left. What are you talking about? Are you talking about the big boy? Well, you'll never know. Okay. Well, I listened. No, you won't.

Not this one. I mean, he could take it out. No, it's staying in. Kong, we're going to see him. I know, you're seeing the big boy. I tried to get to the island. Skull Island. Okay. Very expensive. Sure, that's like a. Kong, we're going to see him. I know, you're seeing the big boy. I tried to get to the island, Skull Island. Okay.

Very expensive. Sure, that's like a $2,000 ticket. You have to repeat that joke because you're not going to be allowed to hear this episode. David. You ever been to Miami? I have. Oh, yeah. I shot in Miami once.

Ooh. For the television series Graceland. Right. You were on Graceland? I was on Graceland. You went to Graceland. Oh my God. Cool. My best oldest friend, Derek Simon,

wrote on my show. His first paid job as a writer was on the TV show Graceland and he convinced them to hire me as a southern redneck. That's right. Cool. Threatening woman with a shotgun.

Oh. I'm a little slow i throw uh uh flies into a bug zapper okay with chopsticks sure probably my best work cool but i was there i was there for for several days it was called sense memory yeah oh boy and if you folks know the tens of cents i have made off of that episode, those residual checks. Tens of Sense Memory? Tens of Sense Memory. How is Daniel Sunyata?

Didn't work with him. How is Aaron Tveit? Did not work with him. Who'd you work with? Vanessa Ferlito. Oh, she. Pleasant. Okay.

There you go. Reese Coiro? Did you work with him? No. I think Vanessa was the only regular I worked with And then it was a lot of guest stars These southern brothers What was Reese Coiro just in where I was like Oh, that was Reese Coiro

You know, that was Entourage Guy I don't know What was it? Oh god, I'm going crazy Have you guys been to Miami? No, never, I've been to Tampa That's the only place in Florida I've ever been I have been to Miami. That's the only place in Florida I've ever been. Ben. I have been to Miami.

Unsurprising. Yeah. I've partied in Miami. You? Yeah. Wow. Wait, party in Miami? I had a very good time. Oh, boy. Let's just say I partied all weekend. Didn't sleep much. Yeah. To catch my

drift. Yeah. You were Don Johnson-ing all weekend is what you're saying. I was having fun. I was dancing. He's got a great club scene, great food. Wait, they have a good

club scene over there? Yeah. Have you heard? Miami, Florida? Oh, right. Of course. He's in the bone sketch of Think You Should

Leave. He's the bones of their money. He's the other guy. The bones of their money. No, famously when an NBA team rolls through

Miami to play the Miami Heat. The bones of their money. They die. No, but when an NBA team rolls through Miami to play the Miami Heat, the bones of their money. They die. No, but it's just one of those things where people kind of make jokes about like, oh, I hear they arrived last night. And then you see them and they're kind of like, they're like, oh, they've been up. David, once again, for the Lister at Home doing a great entirely physical bit.

Like someone lazily dribbling and throwing it up. It was funny. I don't know what to tell you. David did it very well. He was yawning and dribbling at the same time. Very precise physical humor. Yeah. But I think Miami's rep in the 80s is probably different, right?

It's probably like... Well, it's a major hub for drug activity. I mean, that's the big thing. I mean, I'm aware. That's why it's set there, well as a major hub for drug activity I mean I'm aware that's why it's set there because a lot of drugs come in through Miami but like I don't know I feel like Florida has only like grown and exploded in population over the last 20 you know what I mean like yes it's only become bigger and bigger and bigger I don't know our pilot Miami is like going underwater our pilot discussion right yeah right Miami, right. Miami is disappearing. The world is terrible. It will end.

So is the island of Manhattan. I mean, it's an island. We got a little more time. What are you talking about? Yeah, we live on an island. I don't think so. That's why I'm on island time. That's why I'm always late to record.

Oh, my God. That's fucking good. What if that's his excuse? Like, sorry. I'm on island time. Jesus. I live in Manhattan. I'm on island time. I'm on island time. Jesus. I live in Manhattan. I'm on island time.

I'm on island time. Jesus. I'm Manhattan boy. I'm on island time perpetually. I was born into island time. You were. You were. So was I.

It's actually rude of people to think I'd show up on time. It's out of my control. How dare they? Blame my mom. She didn't get on a plane. Popped me out somewhere else while she still had the chance. I was born into Ireland. Do you have dual citizenship?

Well, it's a sensitive subject. Okay, we won't talk about it. Continue with your... I would have been able to get dual citizenship to the UK if I'd gotten this job. Really? Yeah. Why? Because my mother's British by birth.

Wait a second. What do you mean? I'm sorry, what? Like, she was on vacation. I don't know how to do this. Hold on, hold on. No, no, you've got it. You've got it.

Stick with it. You've got it. Hold on, hold on. Your mom. Because your mom, we all know, is kind of like classically, it's like a French lady. think it was a French lady. It's a French lady.

So we'd assume. French lady. French lady. French. She's born in France. This is the twist. Born in England. Wait, but, okay, so then she was, was she on vacation?

Or wait, no, her mom, because she wasn't out yet, but. My grandmother was married to a British man. Wait. What? Who was my mother's father. Right. my grandmother was married to a British man. Wait, what? Who was my mother's father. Right. And my grandmother left him for a French man and took my mother with her.

And so my mother identifies as French. Yes. But I am technically of British blood. Oh my. What? It has never come up on- David, come on. David,? It has never come up on... David, come on. David, it has genuinely never come up on this podcast.

Is that true? We've been friends for five years. Have I ever explained that to you? I think you might have, yes. I think not. That's never come up on this podcast. No, it's never come up. I think you have.

But it took a minute on the podcast, for sure. No. No. What? I can't believe it. I could get a UK passport if I spent enough time there, if I worked there, if I was there for long enough. I've looked into this.

Okay, cool. I'm not saying this job would have covered all of it, but it would have started the thing in motion. I have to swear allegiance to the queen, though. Are you willing to do that? Yeah, Queen Ada. I'm from a bug's life. Oh my god.

I was trying to think of a queen character I respect. And that was the first. That was the first? What does she even look like? Princess Ada, she becomes a queen. She's not even a queen in the movie. At the end of the film they give her the crown!

Isn't that Julia Louis-Dreyfus? It is. She, yeah, yeah. She's a little purple. And she's got kind of that little JLD sauciness. Well, it's that thing where it's like female cartoons have eyelashes. Yes. You know what I mean? That way you know she's a lady.

Yeah, Ada. Queen Ada, me, Princess Ada. I haven't seen that movie in 20 years. Do you know it's a masterpiece? What if Caprova bugs? Yeah, no, right, right. Well, anyway, that's crazy to hear. I can't believe.

I'd love it for you to have a British passport. Yeah, there she is. Ada. There she is. There she is. This is what I was going to say. Yeah. You're talking about sometimes you show a pilot to someone and you're like, it'll get good later, right she is. There she is. There she is. This is what I was going to say. Yeah. You're talking about sometimes you show a pilot to someone and you're like, it'll get good later, right?

Yeah. There are also things like Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. Sure. Everyone's like, fuck, they're hitting the ground running and the show can't sustain itself. There are other phenomenons where like a pilot is so hot that the networks go crazy for it, and then the show is canceled by episode five. There absolutely are. There are warning signs in the Studio 60 pilot, for example. Right.

But also, sometimes if a pilot's too good, there's nothing left to do afterwards. That can happen, yeah. You can have a really sexy pilot, and you never figured out what your show is week to week. Right. really sexy pilot. And right. You don't, you never figured out what your show is week to week. Right now. I was surprised that the Miami vice pilot is so much an origin story between these two guys with so many twists and turns in terms of what you learn about them and what they learn about each other. Right. And that it ends on this note where it's like,

I guess we'll be partners, but also like, Oh, this whole system's kind of fucked. I mean, we'll get to that in a second, but like it almost resolves all of its own thematic concerns within this one hour and 40 minute thing.

It does, but it has the promise of like, well, if nothing else, we can work together. But it's all, in that way, it's such a good blueprint that there's a part of me, I'm not surprised because of course we're talking about Michael Mann, who's a lunatic and never does anything the easy way. But Occam's Razor, you would go, well, Miami Vice movie, do for Miami Vice pilot what you did for L.A. Takedown. Right. And he's like, no, I'm not going to. I mean, probably partly because the Miami Vice pilot is actually famous.

Right. But, right, instead of doing an origin story kind of like, here's how these two cops get together. It's like, no, not only will we drop you into the middle of their relationship but we're dropping into the middle of a scene right like a scene we'll drop you into the middle of them doing their job their relationship has almost no tension anymore the movie's just about their relationships with other people 100 they won't interact that much right whereas this move this the brothers keeper begins with Don Johnson losing his partner. It begins first with. It begins first with, you know, Tubbs.

Philip Michael Vincent. No. Philip Michael Thomas. I always get Jan Michael Vincent. The three names. And Philip Michael Thomas confused. Yeah. Philip Michael Thomas.

You're right. It begins with Tubbs. Who's very good in this. Yeah, he's great. I feel like his legacy is now one of those examples of like, oh, he was like a David Caruso, where his ego got too big because of the show. Really? That's his legacy?

Doesn't he direct movies and stuff? He has a whole directing career. Really? Yeah. I feel like he had a legacy of asking for a pay raise, and it became difficult. I feel like there were behind the scenes. Donson is the one that they almost replaced right he actually was like you're gonna give me a big pay raise you know i think it was like three seasons you know whenever

the show is like just absolutely scorching i think it's cool that they set up he has multiple tubs in his apartment okay yes i was a little bit wrong about this. Mark Harmon. I was trying to find the person they were like, we'll just replace you with Mark Harmon. Which is sort of like as much as Don Johnson became sort of a famous has-been, even though he had Nash Bridges after this, he was always around.

Always worked. But he did kind of become a famous has-been. It does feel like, nah, Mark Harmon's a little too cute, right? You need someone who kind of has that thing, nah, Mark Harmon's a little too cute, right? Like, you know, you need someone who kind of has that thing of like, yeah, he might just shoot you, right? You know, he sort of lived a life already. I got it wrong.

I was confusing Philip Michael Thomas with someone else. I'm forgetting who. But, you know, another Caruso type who's like, I'm too big for this and made a bunch of demands. Caruso is the one where, like, he lasted a season. Right. He was so hot, so fast that he was like, well, clearly I'm out of here. I knew he didn't leave the show.

Sort of the Chevy Chase thing. But I thought that he was always threatening to leave the show. I was conflating that with, I knew there was some weird story with him. Here's what it is. Philip Michael Thomas is the man who coined the term EGOT. Oh, yeah, I knew that. Right. That's right.

Because he, Babe Ruth style, called his shot that he was going to be. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll win all four. I'm also, he's not a director. So I was thinking of the other triple barreled guy from Starsky and Hutch. Right. Who's the director of Kazan. Who made The Running Man and shit.

Now, fuck, John Michael Glazer? No. But Glazer's in there. Yeah, I think it is. Fuck, what is it? What's his name? Great job. Paul Michael Glazer.

I was two out of three. You were two out of three. You were two out of three. And he directed, didn't he direct The Running Man? Yeah, The Running Man and Kazan. Something's got to give. He's an actor in that one. Right, he plays the ex-husband.

On the Wikipedia, it just says, Thomas Quinn, you know, meaning Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, Tony, references planned for winning all four, and then in one of the cruelest sentences on any Wikipedia entry ever, he has not, as yet, been

nominated for any of these awards. He's been nominated for one Golden Globe, I believe. But has not factored into the EGOT. Received a People's Choice Award. Hey! And a Golden Globe nomination. That's not nothing. It's not nothing.

He's a voice in a lot of Grand Theft Autos. That's what it's saying, that he now does a lot of voiceover work. He also was weirdly part of the Psychic Readers Network. He was the spokesman for the Psychic Readers Network and was only replaced by miss cleo oh miss cleo's alleged and he sued for breach of contract because they'd replaced him all right but it was originally the philip michael thomas psychic readers network interesting career

sure now i feel like he's a guy where they joke about the fact that he didn't you know really amount to anything after miami vice especially because of the EGOT thing. He is so fucking good in this. Terrific. I was, like, stunned by how good his performance is. Yeah, man. I also, I did know that his origin was like, yeah, he's the New York cop who's, like, an outsider. But I had totally forgotten.

I like that. It's surprising when this pilot opens in New York. Right. In, like, a classic. Another thing that man, like, junked in the show. Right. Like, no in New York. Right. Another thing that man junked in the show. No talk about that. Right. But he's like a New York street cop sitting in a shitty

car in a shitty neighborhood. These guys come up and try to mug him and he takes out a snub-no shotgun. What's Ben looking at? Great. Okay. Back to Miami Vice. I gotta get my top down. John Michael Vance, sitting in a car in the fucking merciless streets of New York City.

Sure. Classic. Michael Mann, neon noir. These guys try to mug him. He's got a gun. This guy's desperate. He is. But I'll say, starting in New York really helps make that hard cut to Miami

feel really appetizing. Yeah. Well, and also I think I would like to rewatch it actually just to see, because like Miami Vice, famous theme, famous opening theme by Jan Hammer, great music in general. You know, I went on a few dates with Jan Hammer's daughter. Really? Yeah.

How was it? I messed it up. She was great. You mess something up with a girl. Now she's engaged and doing well. But, like, this team. I'm sorry. We've now landed on my favorite potential recurring segment for Blank Check.

David pups his arms to the Miami Vice scene while Ben recounts romantic regrets. David is just fucking flailing. And Ben is really in his head. You can tell he's got that far off look. He's thinking about all the women he's loved and lost. This is Ben is red he's staring off James Olmos is Castillo David's pointing

I feel like in the first episode the theme is extended and we kind of just build into it you know what I mean and it's kind of awesome it feels like the opening to Aliens where it takes a long time to come together so that I just like opening titles I do too another thing I miss

I think you might agree with me this pilot is best it's good when people are talking it's best when no one's talking and there's just music and they're just driving people were not doing it on TV at the time that's the energy and the look that man was like plugging into this

where he's like, we can do something like that. It's okay. Yeah, because the script is solid. It doesn't have the same sort of like diamond cut dialogue of man's best work. It's got some fun lines. Because he didn't write it. Right, but it's like, it's all of his pet themes.

Yeah, I would say that Crockett's whole like where he's like, why is this amateur out? You know, have his kind of crockett's whole like where he's like why is this amateur out you know all his kind of like complaining and it's sort of like wise ass like it's a little forced it's okay some of it's a little stock tv cop stuff um but i think johnson's good he was this guy yeah who um had done some pilots he was kind of in in that mode where networks are sort of like, this guy seems a little washed up. They didn't want to hire him. Yeah, he seems like a bad choice.

Nick Nolte, Jeff Bridges were their first choices. Yeah, sure, great. That was never going to happen. They were like, what if we got a big movie star to do TV? And they're like, are you kidding me? It would ruin an actor's career were he to go back to TV. Don Johnson also is like one of those guys with like one of those wild ride wikipedia pages where it's like one early life two acting three music four

world championship powerboat racing whoa five personal life 5.1 relationships and family 5.2 legal problems you know what i mean like you're just looking at the chapters and you're like oh he was married to melna Griffith twice, and the first time was when she was a teenager. Then they got divorced. Then they remarried about a decade later and had children. 13 years later. That's so weird.

But I mean, he's one of those guys where it's like spouses. And creepy. I'm reading from his spouses. Spouses. Spouse one. Married 1968. Annulled 1968. No name listed? No name. Spouse two Married 1968 Annulled 1968 No name listen

No name Spouse 2 The unknown woman Spouse 2 Melanie Griffith Spouse 2 Married 1973 Annulled 1973

Wait what? Melanie Griffith Married 1976 Divorced 1976 And how old was she in 1976? I don't know I'm guessing 16 I'm guessing she was born in 1960 She was born in 1976? I don't know. I'm guessing 16. I'm guessing she was born in 1960.

She was born in 1957, which would make her 19, I think. Okay. Right? Okay. Okay, Don. You just barely made it. Melanie Griffith married in 1989,

divorced in 1996. Two Melanie Griffiths. And then Kelly Fleger married 1999 they're still together so I guess he kind of

finally just took it easy I don't know that is insane that he has two unidentified two unnamed spouses that he married

and annulled within the same year before he met the woman he would then later remarry successfully. And that there are no marriages in between the two Griffiths.

There's 13 years in between where he's unmarried. He had like a partner in there somewhere as well. He's the father of Dakota Johnson. Of course. Who is now the star of movies. Yes. I'm a big fan of hers. Dakota, great.

Yeah. Love Dakota. Don seems like weird energy. He seems like weird energy. He's kind of fun now in this old... You know, where people are kind of digging him up for a scene, right? He's in Django. Very good in Django.

He was very good in Eastman and Down. Right. He's in the... He's going to be in Knives Out. Right. He's in a couple of the S. Craig Zahler racist movies. Yes. He's good in them, though. Right. He's in the he's going to be in Knives Out. Right. He's in a couple of the S. Craig Zahler racist movies. Yes. He's good in them though. Yeah. But it

was one of those things where I think he was viewed as like oh this is a guy who's going to make the leap from like TV to movies and then it didn't really happen. Really? I always assumed that he was just like a schlocky TV actor. That was always the vibe of his joke. But in the 80s

it's like, you know, the hot spot. You know, what else we got here? I feel like his legacy was... Dead Bang. Have you heard of that one? John Frankenheimer movie. He was a little bit of a Rick Dalton-esque figure. Where everyone was like, oh man, but when Miami Vice

ends, his movie career is going to be huge. Rick Dalton, for people, because it's brand new this episode. Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time where everyone was like, oh man, but when Miami Vice ends, his movie career is going to be huge. Rick Dalton, for people, because it's brand new this episode, Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Leo DiCaprio. He is like that.

I think Rick Dalton's even more on the downswing, but it is that guy where it's like, eh, he kind of had his bite at the apple at the leading man shit.

He might just be a heavy now. Yeah. Right? Casting him as a leading man would almost just make us look bad and also his next big thing after my advice the only thing that really kind of stuck was him going back to tv like 10 years later and just being like now i'm just the old cop now i'm like the cop who isn't cool right yeah 100 now i want to watch the nash bridges but there's like a bitch marin inech Marin in that one, I think.

He later joined. I think he's in. Maybe. Really? I don't know. Yeah. I thought he joined later. Okay.

Don Johnson? Yeah. I always get Nash Bridges and Marshall Law confused. Marshall Law was Chuck Norris? No, no, no. Because he was Walker, Texas Ranger. Yeah, a Vec Cheech Marin. I guess these are the French titles. Yeah. That's it, no, no. Because he was Walker, Texas Ranger. Yeah, Vivek Cheech Marin. I guess he's the French titles.

Yeah. That's it. Oh, no, James Gammon. Oh, love James Gammon, the coach from Major League. Jamie P. Gomez. Martial Law with Sammo Hung and Arsenio Hall. Arsenio Hall? Created by Carlton Cuse.

Right, Carlton Cuse and I believe Damon Lindelof both worked on Nash Bridges. At least Cuse did. Yeah. Cuse was one of those guys who did schlock. Right. Carlton Q's and I believe Damon Lindelof both worked on Nash Bridges. At least Q's did. Yeah. Q's was one of those guys who did schlock. Schlocky stuff. Lindelof was more the sort of like I'm kind of like the weird sci-fi guy. Right. But those CBS cop shows. Walker, Marshall Law. In the 90s. And Nash Bridges.

Right. We're running the table. And that's yeah. Then he found that zone and now he's hit a certain pocket of I think people who grew up with him and thought he was the coolest guy when they were watching Miami Vice when they were 13 now cast him in things. Right, right. That's what it feels like. I mean, all these guys like Rian Johnson and Tarantino and McBride and Hill are all in the age range to have been like, Don Jensen, that's the coolest guy. Yeah, that guy was fucking, he was. He like the alpha male of of American culture for a year but he was viewed as

like sort of like a a cursed pilot actor yes there are certain people who get that reputation of his day right where it's like show killer right right they like do like six pilots in a row as a lead and they go like Padgett Bruce is he the commonality here? Are audiences turned off by them until they get the one and at that point it's like this is their last shot. The network doesn't want to hire them. They hire him and it totally makes the show. It does. He's great.

But I do think the best, I like the pilot I think it's a lot of fun to watch. It's incredibly easy to watch. I threw it on and I was like immediately like oh hey, what's going on? Tell me more. Right. Tell me more about the shotgun in New York.

Yeah, right. Don't really care about the drug deal. You know, like the details of everything that's going on. I'm like, I get it. There's a bad guy from Columbia. And they're all tangled up in his net. The thing that's interesting is in an hour and 40 minute minute pilot i would say it takes until the halfway point for them to really to meet to meet yeah 100 because it's like these two guys are independently

tracking the same deal right um also it has the advantage that it uses jimmy smiths who's going to be on la law in a couple years but but he's still kind of like this face. You know what I mean? And what a face. He's in the first five, ten minutes. He's got two scenes, essentially. He's Don's partner. He's going to get married.

He's getting ready to get married. I think he's getting married. They're getting ready to have a kid. Am I wrong about that? Yeah. So he's nervous about that, right? He's starting a family is the point. Right. And then he blows up.

He blows up. Because they're making a deal with a guy who has turned on the big drug dealer they were trying to take down. Right. What does he say? Price of business or capitalism? Right. You know, that he has turned on him and is like, I can get you a better deal. And they're like, this is not helpful.

This is not what we're trying to do here. They realize that that drug lord rigged his car up with a bomb a bomb smith's dies in it and then there's some really good don johnson just broken sort of like the scene where he goes to the diner you know to where the wife is a waitress is phenomenal and the guy you see the boss uh like standing in the way to block anyone else from entering. Yeah. It's good stuff. And they don't cut to coverage.

She collapses. She's wailing, and he's doing that thing where he bear hugs her to just try to support her. And you just stay in this wide shot of the guy standing by the door, him in the kitchen of the diner with her. He's good at being broken. All that AD stuff is fun where he's got the divorced wife. She's like, man, I like you. You're just a fuck up. And he's like, I know. And that scene is like.

And now this shit is the most cliche. If you did a pilot now where it's like, he's kind of a jerk. He's an absent father. We'd all be like, get out of here. But this anti-hero stuff is like. But this is new. He's dark. Yeah. It's not a nice family yeah i'll say a move that i think is really good he's got a crocodile on his boat well we'll get alligator sorry alligator alligator yes big difference okay what's it called elvis that's right what took that out of this movie oh yeah kind of nuts that they weren't even

fuck that why would he have an alligator? It's ludicrous. Imagine if he... I just feel like Michael Myers is like, what? You can't have it. How cool... Get the fuck out of here.

I also think he probably vetoed the alligator solely because he knew it would be satisfying to audiences. I don't know. She's giving us a look. Do we have to wrap up soon? Who's waving us? Come in.

Rachel? Is it Rachel? Hi, Rachel. Do you have a podcast to do? Okay. Oh, yeah. We're almost done. We're going to be done. You can put this computer here. How are you doing, Rachel? Supremely over.

Rachel's carrying a computer. She's doing okay. We've been recording too many episodes, and our episodes are long. I'm just eating fundamental facts about our existence right now can I say I want to ask you guys this

Rachel we'll be done in like 15 ish thank you sorry Rachel I'm getting very sick of my brain your brain? because of the amount of time we're spending recording this podcast Rachel. Sorry, Rachel. Uh, I'm getting very sick of my brain, your brain because of the amount of time we're spending recording this podcast. Okay.

Like, I'm like, God, I don't want to hear myself. Oh, you're getting sick of hearing yourself talk. Yeah. Wow.

That's a milestone. That is a milestone. To the point where now when I have inner voice thoughts, I'm just like, shut up. I've spent enough time listening to this. Oh, shut up. People love it.

People love it. Uh, so, not me. Uh, we were talking about, I'm glad they love it. Cause to me,

this is starting to feel like a burden. No bueno. Well, the other thing is you forget people are listening to you once a week. You have to listen to you

every day. Every goddamn day. Too much time. Yeah. Um, uh, Elvis isn't in it what was i gonna say um oh the move i like is that uh he shows up you didn't realize that all this was happening on the day of his son's birthday right he shows up with a box it's such it's such hacky corny shit but this is what i like the wife starts giving him the business oh look who decided to show up just in time everyone else at the party is like putting on It's such hacky, corny shit. But this is what I like. The wife starts giving him the business.

Oh, look who decided to show up just in time. Everyone else at the party is like putting on their coats. The parents are taking their kids with them. I love that Don Johnson doesn't defend himself at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got like the best excuse in the world, which is my partner died today. I had to deliver the news to his wife, right? And he's like, no, I am a piece of shit.

I'm going to let her call me a piece of shit even though I have the one good excuse. And he like walks in. He could kind of trump her here. The kid's excited you showed up. Of course, I wouldn't miss it for the world. And he's just dealing with the kid on his level. And he waits a couple minutes before he tells him that the partner died. At which

point, everyone in the party immediately shifts from viewing him as the deadbeat to being like, well, they're like, oh, fuck. All right. Yeah. Sorry. I think that moment's really strong. That's fair.

That's a moment that feels nuanced in a Michael Mann way, whereas the rest of that scene feels like, right, the stock type, sort of like the guy can't get out of his own way. But the thing I responded to most is just, I mean, obviously the very famous, I mean mean probably the most famous thing about miami vice scene in which they silently drive to what could be their deaths and the the phil collins in the air of the night right in the

in the air tonight plays over the you know and it's just like that's i feel like that's what people still remember about miami more than anything. That feeling. That's when I was the most locked into this thing. And that does feel like the Michael Mann magic where he's like, you're allowed to do this. I demand it. There you go. I don't know what else to say about this. I really like it, but I wasn't really compelled to watch more.

No, because I feel a sense of resolution watching this. That's the weird thing. Kind of that. Right. And also, it's so notorious. Like, Miami Vice season one was great. Tons of Emmy nominations. The only reason I want to keep watching, I want to get to Eddie.

Eddie? Edward James Olmos because he's not in the first three episodes. Yeah, he shows up. He's like their new lieutenant in like episode four. Right. And he is by acclamation, best actor in the show. He's the only one who won an acting award. He won anmy i went and won two like everyone loved him because they're they're feels a little stagey yeah he's fine he stays in the show i think but he's okay he's whatever yeah uh like john deal shows up you know like the cast is not yet built out right so i would sort of be

fun to see that but season one amazing season two. Season two, okay. There's three more seasons. But you can check Emmy nominations. It's not happening anymore. And the ratings drop. Oh, see, season four is a masterpiece. I ate all the pretzels. The pretzels are gone. I got the last pretzel.

It's right here. These pretzels are making me thirsty. Oh, boy. Seinfeld. I don't know. Do you want to say anything? I'm done talking yeah I know

the thing I like is that it's not an odd couple narrative it's not like they have friction with each other there's the initial friction of like

wait a second like that moment when the whole the whole deal gets completely fucked up by like the backup coming showing up

five minutes too early yeah Tubbs on his own separate mission, interloping, you know? Right. That like Johnson's got this all figured out, like here's my victory lap, I can take it all down. And everyone else is like not communicating

with everyone else. And they fuck it up, and then it's the thing of like wait, you're a cop too, we gotta figure this out. I like the reveal that Tubbs has taken his brother's name to sort of avenge his brother's death. Yeah, that's a pretty fun twist, sort of like a

nice third act twist, right? Right. Yeah. Right, when they look him up and they go like, this guy's dead. And he's like, this is the traitor. And he's like, no, man, it's just there's no way else I could have done this. My brother was the good cop. And you have those flashbacks to the deal going wrong. Those are cool.

Yeah, I think all those are really good. And it's nice that it sort of just ends on they catch the guy. Yeah. The guy immediately gets bailed out. Right. Someone on Reddit said that that's a pretty common way that the show is pretty cynical. Yeah. Often they don't get their guy.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, it had that kind of vibe, which is he appreciated that about the movie because the movie. Right. You know, they get Yarrow, but they don't get their guy. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it had that kind of vibe, which is he appreciated that about the movie. Cause the movie, right. You know, they get Yarrow, but they don't get the big guy. There are systemic issues at play.

They suffer some losses. Right. That they can't defeat. It's going to just keep gone, keep on going. Right. It's like the Incredibles 2. Uh,

yeah. Uh, I, I like that a lot, but I, yeah, you know, I enjoy this.

I feel like this feels like watching like, uh, you know, a little, a little man bonus thing. It feels like watching Jericho Mile or watching LA Takedown. We did already do Jericho Mile.

That's on our Patreon. But it's weird that it's not him and it's still so influenced by him. And that the influence of this show changes the entire landscape of television to make television feel more like Michael Mann movies.

In ER, you've got steady cam shots, and that's when it's really dumb and dusty. Man, you love ER. Best. Best. Best. We were saying before recording this, my mom only watched two TV shows when I was growing up. And they were ER and Seinfeld.

And it was like, she was like, I don't like TV. TV's dumb. Literally like the top two shows of the 90s. Right. These are the two shows worth watching. Now, we're done with Michael Mann. It's been a blast. I think it's been fun. We're almost done with Miyazaki as well. We've been recording like crazy. Which is fantastic. Love to keep ahead. Yes.

But, um, time for your rankings, man. It's 12 movies if you include Jericho, Mile. Time for your rankings, man. It's 12 movies if you include Jericho, Mile. Time for your rankings. Man. Add another N to that. Right. Well done.

Man, I think people are going to think my rankings are crazy. Go, please. Okay. Your boy's crazy for this one. You go first. You go first. I don't know. I think they'll be similar.

You go first. Number one, Heat. Number two, Miami Vice. Number mine will probably be more. Yeah. I don't know. I think there'll be someone. You go first. Number one, Heat. Number two, Miami Vice. Number three, The Insider. Number four, Collateral. Number five, Thief. Doing great. Okay.

Number six, Manhunter. Number seven, Ali. Number eight, Last of the Mohicans. Number nine, Black Hat. Number 10, Public Enemies. Number eleven, Jericho Mile. Number twelve, The Keep. Okay, let me see if I have this done correctly.

People are going to be angry with me. So there should be ten and twelve in total? If you're including Jericho Mile. Okay, I'm going to do this. And people aren't going to like it. Okay, ready? Mm-hmm. Okay.

Number one, Thief. Wow. Wow. I'll say it's the one that's lingered with me the most. Rules. And I got so amped when we did that one, and I was like, fuck, this is going to be like this. But I haven't, that was the biggest rush I got.

And it's kind of just a perfect little thing. Sure. It's weird to say that he hit it the hardest at the first time out, but it is also such a perfect distillation of everything he does well. Number two, he heat. I'm not a moron.

I'm not going to deny heat. I'm just saying, for some reason, Thief works for me a little better. Okay. Number three, The Insider. Mine, number three too. Which I kind of think would be my number one if not for

how bad the wife character is. Okay, sure. You know, it's like there are a couple things in the movie that are so bad that almost are outweighed by the fact that the rest of it I like the most out of his entire oeuvre. Cool. Then I go Manhunter. Okay.

Okay. Then I go Ali. Okay. Ali I feel like I like more than most. Sure. Probably because of how many times it played my home growing up. Yeah. With my weird brother. A nine year old who is obsessed with Michael Mann's Ali.

Then I go Collateral. Collateral's what? What number are we at here? We are at three, four, five, six. Six. Collateral's at number six. Great. Number seven is Public Enemies. Jesus. Alright, this is where I'm mad at you. Miami Vice

should be above Public Enemies. Come on. Then you're really not going gonna like what happens number 8 black hat number 8 is black hat that's uh huh what's number 9

and those two are kind of split by a hair I think public enemies has higher highs black hat's more consistent sure I like both those movies

more than most people then I go Miami Vice I like all these movies to be clear yes yep yep pretty much the same with me then I go Miami Vice

then I go Last of the Mohicans. A movie I'm just not crazy about. I like that movie. And here's the thing. Not my kind of movie. I think it's well done. When we did the episode, people on Twitter, and I want to shut this shit down, were saying that they thought the episode was dragged down by Dana Stevens' lack of enthusiasm.

A couple people said this. It made me very angry. Me too, because Dana's a fucking genius. I don't want to make it sound like there's too many people. A couple people said this. It made me very angry. Me too, because Dana's a fucking genius. I don't want to make it sound like it was too many people. Dana's a fucking genius. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they were also like, oh man, the boys weren't flipping out for this movie because their guest didn't like it as much. Relax. First of all,

fucking relax. Jesus. Second of all, we don't end our episodes with like a fucking star rating. We talk about the episode. We talk about the movie. Third of all, it's not my favorite movie. I like it less than Dana. So if anyone, We talk about the episode. We talk about the movie. It's not my favorite movie.

I like it less than Dana. So if anyone, I'm dragging the episode down. Okay. You drag her. I know it was only a couple people, but it made me very angry. Okay.

Because that has to be restated. Dana Stevens is a genius. Then I go The Keep. And then I go Jericho Mile. Cool. Feels like you gotta put Jericho Mile last just because it's like not as much of a movie. Put that above the key.

There's something about the key. There is. There's undeniably something about the key. There's something about it. I fully agree with that. Anyway. I don't know. Is the episode out?

What are we... That's it, right? Yeah, Rachel brought in the computer. One more thing. What? We're gonna play the box office game from Public Enemy Oh fuck we're going to do it again That's what we're going to do

But I'm going to ask for one more thing I'm going to prep something while you're doing that So this is also now a test of memory Because we recorded Public Enemy's episode Maybe 10 weeks ago A while ago 10 years ago We did that one

fairly early in the recording yeah okay number one on july 3rd 2009 it's a sequel transformers see i think i'm gonna do too well on this well let's find out number two at 43 million dollars 42 sorry 42 one of the worst films of all time. Probably Michael Bay's worst movie. Aventathon is so, so bad. So bad. Unforgivably bad. Yeah.

Unforgivably bad. Anyway, then they made five more. Uh-huh. Number two, animated film. New this week. $41 million opening weekend. It's Ice Age Dawn of the Dinosaurs. Number three?

Number three is Public Enemies? That's right. Also opening $25 million opening weekend. I say it's Dawn of the Dinosaurs. Number three? Number three is Public Enemies? That's right. Also opening $25 million. Okay. See, it's just like if you'd heard it the first time. You're not missing anything. Number four. Uh-huh.

I think this box office game was pretty quick, actually. I do, too. I think I had these. I remember this weekend. Yeah. Number four, Romantic Comedy. Number four is Romantic Comedy. In its third weekend, it's making $12 million.

Oh, The Proposal? Number five. Comedy. In its fifth week, it's made $205 million. There you go. Okay, wow. We did it! I'm trying to find

the ratings for the pilot episode of Miami Boys. Oh, I don't know if you'll do that. But here, to give some completion, because we recorded Spirited Away today, also opening 64th on three screens, making $5,000, is Nia Vardalos' I Hate Valentine's Day. Wow. One of the more demented movies ever made. Truly, truly,

truly, truly, truly bizarre movie. Never seen it. If you ever have the misfortune to watch it, I'm, that's too bad. And that's, that's a little teaser for the fact. Written and directed by Nia. Yeah, that's her only time she directed, right? I think so. It's a little teaser for the fact that

our Spirited Away episode, of course, has a 20-minute tangent about my Big Fat Greek wedding. Of course. Fantastic. Yeah, it's the only one. Because she also co-wrote Connie and Carla and my Big Fat Greek wedding, too. And what about My Life in Ruins, my friend? No, she didn't write that. She didn't write that?

No, that was a Nia Vardalo's vehicle. They took another script and put her in it. The only other thing she wrote was What? Come on. Big Fat Greek Wedding 2? No, I said that already. What's the other thing? She's not in it. Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! She wrote Larry Crown? That's right.

She put a crown on it? She did. Okay, I don't know if this is going to work, but I'm going to try to do this. Okay, the night of September 16th, 1984. Okay? I'm talking primetime slot, 7 o'clock to 11 o'clock. The big three networks, ABC, CBS, NBC.

What do you think the top program of the night was? Miami Vice. This is weird. What do you think the top program of the night was? Miami Vice. This is weird. Okay, you know what it is? What is it? It's a different show called ER starring Elliot Gould. Yes, E slash R.

E slash R. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, weirdly, George Clooney was on. Weird. Yeah. That was a comedy. It was a sitcom set in an was on. Weird. Yeah. That was a comedy. It was a sitcom set in an emergency room. Yeah.

Elliot Gould, Mary McDonnell, Conchita Farrell. Yeah, that's a CBS show. Jason Alexander. That was a big show. Huge. It only ran one season. It didn't make it very far. But when it launched, it was like, Elliot Gould, back on TV. Mary McDonnell.

Like, you know, big show. Gets a 23 in the ratings. Fuck. Huge. Okay? Huge. And a 23 in the ratings. Fuck. Huge, okay? Huge. And that's the pilot episode. Yep. Airing the same night as Miami Vice, which is number two with 22.8 million.

Okay, so very close. Okay, the third highest rated show of the evening of September. So you're not doing a time slot, you're just doing the night? I mean, the time slot, there are only three shows. Yeah. So what's the third show? I mean, the time slot, there are only three shows. Yeah. So what's the third show? That's on CBS. Okay, fine.

All right. What was the third highest rated? David, ER was on from 8 to 9, and Miami Vice was on from 9 to 10. Oh, 9 to 11. Right. Correct. So two hours. Okay.

So they weren't in the same time slot. But they're on different networks, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what was Miami Vice up against? The movie Some Kind of Hero. Okay. Which got a 19.5. That's back in the day people watched TV movies.

And the Denver Broncos-Cleveland Browns game. So that's not interesting. I'm asking you for the top ratings of the night. They don't have to be in the same slot, okay? I'm asking you for the night. What do you think the third highest rated thing was of the night? I'll give you a hint. Wait, I have a guess.

What? The A-Team. Nope. Damn it. All right, give me a hint. We kind of covered it on the TV show, on the podcast before. What? We kind of covered this TV show on the podcast before.

Kind of. We've talked about it extensively because of one of the movies we've covered. I have no idea. I'm so tired. To the extent that I would say we kind of have covered it on the podcast. What is it? Give me more hints. I don't know. We covered it on this very miniseries.

On this very miniseries? On this very miniseries we covered what was the third highest rated program of the night. September 16th, 1984. Michael Mann has connections to two of these shows, both the Miami Vice pilot. What is it, Crime Story? Nothing to do with E slash R.

Well, he wasn't connected to the show at the time, but later it would become a big part of his filmography. Oh. He had no involvement in the series as it was airing. Okay. And in fact, it's still airing. It's still airing? In fact, it's still airing. But, it would later

become a very crucial part of his filmography. See, this is kind of fun, right? Very crucial? This is a real stumper and this is fun and you're gonna get so excited when you figure it out and everyone loves this. It's not The Simpsons. I'm trying to think of shows that still... Oh!

60 Minutes. 22.1, baby. Of course. Yeah. Of course. That's number three. Number four, I already spoiled,

is the movie Some Kind of Hero. What is that movie even? Got a 19.5? That's insane. I think it's about some kind of hero. Okay.

It's a Richard Pryor movie. It must have just been like for the first time on TV. And then here we go. The number five. Can you guess the number five? No. It's on NBC. So is the lead in.

At 730. Oh, it's 730. Jesus. Yes. NBC. It's a sitcom. It's a sitcom. And I mean, big rating.

It's a new episode. It's part one of three. One of three. It's a Sunday night. It's lead in? It's a sitcom. And, I mean, big rating. It's a new episode. It's part one of three. Part one of three of a sitcom? It's a Sunday night. It's lead-in with Silver Spoons. And I'll say, pretty good pairing, these two shows together. There's a real vibe to this block. David has given up.

He has surrendered. Give me clues. He is loading bullets into a gun. He's pointing them at my temple. He said he was sick of hearing you talk. Yeah. We only have one more episode and then a Six Flags trip this week. Great.

I don't know. I'm looking at Silver Spoons now. Silver Spoons did pretty well. Got a 9.6, but this one was blowing the roof off the door. Blowing the roof off the door. What the fuck am I saying? I'm tired of my own voice. 11.5.

And there's rumors now they're going to reboot this show for Netflix with the original star. Rumors now they're going to reboot the show for Netflix. I have a guess. Yes? Punky Brewster? Nailed it. Yes. What an episode.

Yes. Triumph. I loved Punky Brewster. You can't pay Podfade this shit. You know what I'm saying? They're rebooting Punky Brewster? With Soleil Moonfray, I think adopting a kid or something. Is she going to be punky Brewster. You can't pay pod fade this shit. You know what I'm saying? They're rebooting punky Brewster? With Soleil Moonfrey I think adopting a kid

or something. Is she gonna be punky? Yeah. Is she gonna wear different colored converses? Probably. Hell yeah. Yeah.

I think now she's gonna be the parent. Yeah. It's like Degrassi or whatever. Next generation. Alright. How many?

Oh Jesus. An hour 20 minutes. We done. Okay. Get the fuck out of here. Thank you all for listening. Goodbye. Please remember to

rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Andrew Gouda for our social media. Laymon Cunningham for our theme song. Joe Bone and Pat Rounds for our work. Go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit. Go to TeePublic for some real nerdy shirts. Go to our Patreon for some real nerdy commentaries. What are we up to now?

What's the next one? Well, we got the Six Flags. No, no, Guardians is next, though. Guardians will drop on Wednesday or whatever. Right. Or August 1st. Right. Guardians will have dropped. Just dropped. Just dropped. Right. Guardians with David Ehrlich. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. David's holding onto the table or rocking the house.

Yeah, it drops today. Right. It's August 1st. Right. And then the next episode. Unless anything goes drastically wrong, the next episode's going to be Six Flags assuming nothing goes horrifically wrong we're going to Six Flags nothing's going wrong it's going to go better than good we're going to New Jersey

the only question is and you're going to have to tune in you're going to have to throw down your money on Patreon to get the answer will David wear a Bane mask a Batman cowl or Joker makeup I bought lav mics I have a 3D mic. I have mobile rigging. You guys are going to get your...

Mobile rigging? We're going on the Dark Knight coaster. I'm going to get your asses knocked off by how good this stuff is. We're going on Batman the Ride based on the Burton film. And Ben, there's a Joker roller coaster there

that David says he doesn't want to go on because it's a little too twisted. But why don't you want to go on it? I don't like rollercoasters. But what part don't you like? Twisted. Yeah! Yeah!

Chaos Reigns! Nothing's going to be out soon. The Joker, he's going to be back. Too twisted! Too twisted! That gonna be back that's it that's it you're done okay and as always the joker's tested