Blank Check with Griffin & David - Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind with Lulu Wang

Episode Date: August 18, 2019

Writer/director Lulu Wang joins #thetwofriends to discuss Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, as well as, her recent film The Farewell. 

Okay, hi guys. This is David. This is David from Blank Check. Here's Griffin from Blank Check. Please, I prefer to list my credit as Blue Bloods. I'm sorry. Listen, we've had some technical difficulties in past episodes. People didn't like it. Sure. And they didn't like that they didn't have the warning. Okay. So we're putting in a warning here.

Yeah. We didn't have technical issues. No. We had scheduling issues. Well, we had our guests for one hour. Now- We did not know that. We had scheduling issues. Well, we had our guests for one hour. We did not know that. There had been a slight miscommunication, but that's no one's fault, and it's fine.

There's no fault. I don't want to lay any blame on anyone. We thought we were going to get a- We thought we had a two-hour window with our guests. We had a one-hour window with our guests. We asked for a five-hour window. They gave us a two, and then they showed up with one. I don't know if you guys know this, but in the world of publicity and all this stuff, one hour is plenty of time, lots of time.

But in the world of blank check, basically, it's just taxiing on the runway. So we have a great guest on today's episode. It's a great episode. I think it's maybe our best episode. One of our better episodes. But our guest does have to peace out about an hour in. So, you know. Right.

So now, of course, this- We'll have her back. We're giving you spoilers. Yeah, it, you know. Right. So now, of course, this... We'll have her back. We're giving you spoilers. Yeah, it's a spoiler. Right. This is the opposite of a spoiler warning. Right. This is a trigger warning?

No, we're warning you that we've just spoiled the episode. Okay. It's a retroactive spoiler warning. Yeah. We just spoiled this for you. Okay. spoiler warning. Yeah.

We just spoiled this for you. Okay. So now listen to our best ever episode of Blank Check. Yes. Blank Check

with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is blank chat.

It's so beautiful. It's hard to believe these podcasts could kill me. It's pretty good. That's the first of the many dumb things I do that you will see. I cram the word podcast and butcher something from the movie. Yeah, some piece of dialogue from the movie. Some piece of dialogue from the movie or a tagline.

What are the other annoying things I do? My general behavior. Right, so you talk about yourself a lot. David was trying to prep our guest right before we started recording, and his directions were, it's loose. It's fine. It's a conversation. Griffin's annoying.

Those are the three. Was that not? No, I think that's fair. And I grew up in England. I brought that up immediately. Wait, what? I'm pretty sure this is something that's been mentioned. I don't think it is.

You sure? He's citing this as one of the three basic entry points to the podcast, and I have never heard this before. I have a bad memory, so I don't have an excuse. That's crazy. I would have remembered. Alright, introduce our podcast, please. Podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. This is the fastest we've gotten the intro out

in maybe three years. Usually, it takes... We're like the departed. There's 40 minutes before the opening credits. Do I even need these headphones? You know, it's all your choice. I feel like they're like not on my ears. I'm wearing them for aesthetic reasons.

You could do the Barbra Streisand, you know, she's always like this. Or you could do the one, I feel like Phil Collins does this where he holds one. Or like Bono and the, you know, the Christmas. This makes me feel very important. Right? See, that's why I wear them. Because it makes me feel important. And also hearing that it's like recording relieves my anxiety about the show not being. Getting lost or whatever. Right.

A thing that has never happened with this podcast. Yep. Thanks for talking on mic before we introduce you. That is an essential element of our show. We have to have the guests on. You didn't know, but you passed the test. Oh. Yeah, that's exactly what we want.

That's exactly what we want. Okay, wait. I was halfway through the introduction, and I stopped myself to compliment myself on how quickly I was doing the introduction. Right, right. And thus, derailed the introduction. It's called Blank Check. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their

career, given a series of blank checks, whatever crazy passion projects they want, and sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce, baby. There's a mini-series on the films, Hayao Miyazaki. It's called Howl's Moving Pod Castle. That's right. And today we're talking about Nausicaa Valley of the Wind, which is the second film, and arguably is kind of the guarantor for his career. It's the one that writes the check for his career.

This is the premise we talk about, that there's usually the film that then gives them, they hand them the checkbook. You know what I mean? There's like directors, I mean, it's not as true as it used to be, but like directors who make some movie where Hollywood's like,

okay, clearly, I guess you know what you're doing, so what's the craziest thing you've ever wanted to do? Wow, what is that like? I'd love to know what that's like. Hey, you might be there soon. It's a rare and often male phenomenon, as we've discovered. Yes. I want to ask a bunch of follow-up questions.

So, proper introduction. Our guest today, incredibly, illogically, is the director of The Farewell, Lulu Wong. I want to ask you. Yes. Do you feel any sort of shift now? Because you have this movie that is the only successful independent film of 2019. And not only that, one of the only movies to not underperform at the box office relative to expectations.

And it's so well reviewed. Do you feel like any sort of shift in terms of like increased opportunities that you have? Or are you so much in the like press hamster wheel that you don't even know yet? No, no. There's definitely been a shift. I'm getting submitted a lot of different projects. I've set up another feature. Right. Which is very exciting.

Amazing. Which is very exciting. Amazing. Which is very exciting, yeah. And I also, I got to set that up only because of the success of The Farewell. Sure.

But I did set it up with the same production company, Big Beach. Big Beach. And it's a much bigger movie that requires probably some, some amount of effects,

which, which means higher budget. But I also was able to negotiate Final Cut. Hey. Which is a really big deal. No, people don't get that. It's a really big deal. You know, both in a practical way, but also in a symbolic way.

Yeah. I don't know, obviously, you know, people don't talk about this stuff enough, I feel like, in the industry. So I don't know how uncommon it's gotten for you to get Final Cut but it does feels very uncommon yeah

I also like sometimes people will question like to us like is this I'm so unprofessional sometimes people will question

like does this count as a blank check film or not see the same person texted both of us does this count as a blank check film or not or they'll present a movie texted both of us. Yeah, right. Does this count as blank check film or not? Or they'll present a movie

that costs $150 million and be like, wow, looks like this person got a blank check. But to me, what you've just described sounds like a blank check. You are making a film

at a size that you could not have made if not for the success. It's not a blank check. It's just a bigger check. But you also have the final cut. I do, yeah.

That is cool. Like for me, the blank check is less about the number that you put on it and more about the freedom you have within whatever that number is, if that makes sense. It's true. It's true. But I think also the reason I got it is because I proved myself to be a collaborative filmmaker. Right. And so in many ways— They're not afraid of you like going wild and being like, this is it and you can't –

Exactly. And I don't want to hear any opinions from anybody, which there are quite a lot of filmmakers who want that or would do that. And ha-ha, maybe I've tricked them and now I can expose my real ways. Little do they know. Right. Make metal machine music. Right. But, you know, it's always like that conversation where the financier will say, but we've never had anyone actually use Final Cut because we're really collaborative.

And I go, well, if nobody ever has to use it, then why don't you give it to me to not use? Why do you have to have it to not use? Who's going to have it to not use? And I'd rather have it. But that speaks to this other thing that I feel like we don't talk about very much on the podcast because it's hard to find sources about this. like we don't talk about very much on the podcast because it's hard to find sources about this but so often also getting those like increased checks you know those bigger canvases and everything is based on like proving to other people that you can do the job on a day-to-day basis not just how the thing turns out and is received right like you know if you're at the the cross-section of the

venn diagram where it's like the thing's very well received and it's like making a profit. But also the people who worked with you are like, this is a responsible person. Right. But I feel like that's a fairly new revelation to actually consider that. Because I feel like if you really look at track records and history, there are people who make, you know, successful films and well-received films but are not pleasant to work with. But they continue to work. I just want to clarify quickly. Are you saying that sometimes bad behavior has been rewarded in the entertainment industry?

Is this the sci-fi premise of your upcoming film? Yes, completely fictionalized. A dystopian society? No, it's true. It is true. I think that's one of the reasons we don't talk about it much on this podcast. Well, and also the way Hollywood is just like, but you can't argue with the results. You can't argue with money

it's being made or what, right? I mean, that just becomes the bottom line of everything. But I think like, you know, bad behavior or at least like dramatic behavior gets reported a lot more because it's more exciting and salacious than something where like... Right, right yeah there's not

going to be some like insider hollywood reporter story that's like x person is really pleasant and you know everything runs on time over there an example of a career we've talked about before is like i get the sense from all the things i've read and heard that like that's what happened with christopher nolan with insomnia sure we're like everyone's like oh he like they're like this guy's a professional he's like good at handling, oh, he like... They're like, this guy's a professional. He's like good at handling all the personalities. He like calmed down Pacino. He made a movie with Pacino. He delivered the movie. It did well and they're like,

we trust that he can do Batman. Not because Insomnia is like Batman. Right. But because I think within Warner Brothers, they were like, this seems like a pretty solid bet. Sure. To not cause us headaches. More often though, it is the opposite. It's very nice

that you were bucking that trend. Thank you. I like when good people have good things happen to them after doing good things. I still have a long career to go. I hope to prove otherwise. Don't speak too early.

You can do 10 years as an egomaniac. Exactly. As long as I was good in the beginning I can earn. And then you get to have a redemption arc, too. I mean, if you really become an asshole

and then they're like, here she is. She's like, learned her lessons. Yeah. Right. That's like an old Dennis Leary joke, right? It's like, you can do whatever you want in Hollywood and then be like, I went to rehab. You know, like, I'm sorry. Does that work for women? Does that work for women, you think? You think I could be like, you know, I went to... No, I think then you're troubled forever.

Yeah, I think it has a I could be like, you know, I went to... No, I think then you're troubled forever. Yeah. I think it has a... Dark history. Never worked. Right? I don't know. I think of someone like Kirsten Dunst. Like, she had this sort of, like, rapid rise to fame crash.

She, like, dealt with her problems publicly. She's sort of back now. But she is, you know, someone who does more, like, character roles. Yeah. I also think, like... I don't know why that immediately just. She never got tagged with shit as much as like someone like Britney Spears did. You know, and Britney Spears is a very different person because she's also coming out of like this.

Well, also Britney Spears experienced our collective pop culture. Like we made her live. I mean, I was listening to her in the car the other day and I was thinking like, this is like unfortunately like maybe unfortunately and unfortunately like the most important like singer of my teen years yeah why are we talking about britney spears yeah i was like she went through a lot i just was sort of it was like i feel emotionally connected to this person i've never met i will never really share any experiences with i mean in many ways she is is like our heroine, Nausicaa.

Yes. Yes, you guys. I was kind of joking, but yes, let's find her. Princess who was promised. Yeah. It was like, here she is,

like Britney Spears. You're going to be like, she's the next Madonna. Whatever. She's the next number one pop diva of the generation. She's going to help all of us.

Yeah. And then everyone just keeps giving her crap all the time. But also, I feel like when someone crashes and burns, often it's sort of like, well, that's what happens, isn't it? That's the classic Hollywood story. You're up, then you're down. And also no accountability of the pressure and the obstacles

that everyone else placed around them. Yes, and Nausicaa literally crashes and burns. She does. But Nausicaa, her disadvantages include she lives in an apocalyptic literally crashes and burns. She does. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. That's true. But Nausicaa, I will, two, Nausicaa's advantage,

her disadvantages include like, she lives in an apocalyptic, fungus world. Very toxic. Right, very, like literally toxic. toxic.

Genuinely toxic world. I'm canceling her world. Isn't that the name of a Britney Spears song? Yes. Her best Britney Spears song. Right, the objective best. Not my favorite,

but like. It's the objective best. The sort of song. Objective best. Not my favorite, but like. It's the objective best. The sort of like platonic ideal. And my favorite. Whenever that song came out, like my 15th birthday or whatever, my birthday party, I burned a mix CD that was toxic 20 times. Great. Now I'm envisioning a Nausicaa remix with Britney Spears

Toxic playing in the background as the spores come out I would argue that Toxic goes with everything you can place Toxic under anything and it would improve the film yeah it was such a crazy thing to think about that I was like you were like this is it I don't have an iPod

right I just want to be able to hear this song this is the only song I like listening to. So I'm just going to 20 times copy it into whatever my CD burning app was. You are someone who fixates on things. I fixate on things. Yeah, but I had that album and I put it on repeat. Did you have any pop music in the farewell? There's songs in the farewell, but there's no like...

There's a Hera Nielsen song. Right, and the cover and the end credits. Was that like hard to wrangle? Like is that, that always seems like so stressful. All the rights things. Oh my gosh. Yes. Well, I wanted that song for a really, so first of all.

And that specific cover? Well, so here's the genesis. I wanted the, an Italian version of Without You. Okay. Which turns out. Oh right, Jesus, right. Which it turns out it's one of the You. Okay. Which turns out it's one of the most covered songs but it's all

Harry Nilsson. It's like Harry Nilsson singing it in Italian. Harry Nilsson singing it in Spanish and he doesn't speak those languages. He was just phonetically singing it. Yeah, I guess so. And so it turned out to be very hard to get the rights to it because we got the temporary festival rights so that we could use it for a Sunday. But because they couldn't track down the people who own the rights.

It's really the translator that owns the rights. It's not even the label. It's like some guy who is just looking over at the American lyrics and translating it. Exactly. Like who knows who they got back then. And they like tried to track this person down, couldn't track them down. So it would have been a risk to do it because we could always – Who knows if someone –

Who knows where like they might end up and come back and sue us. And so we had to then do our own cover and – Okay. But it's a very nice cover. It's a beautiful cover. Thank you. Yeah. We had this beautiful cover. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. We,

we, we had this wonderful guy, Fredo. He did the cover for it. And we, and I had this idea and I said, well, if we're going to do a cover of it,

then let's just invite a bunch of my friends and drink a lot of tequila and do it with like a karaoke style a little bit so that it, because that's what it was. At the end, one of the reasons why I wanted to, all the group voices come in. It's like, it's awesome. That's what it was. At the end, when you hear all the group voices come in, it's awesome. That's why I wanted to do it. This is such an Asian song

because it's something that I feel like gets sang a lot in karaoke. Is it really popular there? It is such an iconic karaoke song. Whitney Houston, Michael Jackson, there's something very international. Kelly Clarkson did it in season one of American Idol. It's like there's something, Michael Jackson, there's something very like international. Kelly Clarkson did it in season one of American Idol.

It was one of her showstoppers. Oh. Just wanted. But karaoke, is karaoke like common at a wedding in China? Like that people do karaoke? I don't know. I have actually not been to that many Chinese weddings. Right.

Surprisingly, only. You just made a movie about a Chinese wedding. It's also like you kind of went to the best one. You did go a pretty great way. Yeah, well, I've only been to, you know, my family's, and there's not that many. Yeah, that's really the only one I've ever been to, so I don't know. But that one did have karaoke. It did.

It had like a, you know, like a home system, like karaoke system. And so not super professional. Did you do Killing Them Softly? Did you do a song in real life at that wedding i did uh it was me and my dad it was it was yeah i'm trying no you know what we didn't do killing me softly but that's my dad's favorite song okay we tried to find it and we could not find it on the machine so we sang without the karaoke machine this song that's actually from now I know from um Raised by a Lantern

oh sure oh no um yeah I think it's yes I think it no it's uh it's the other Johnny Mo film um Sorghum oh yeah Red Sorghum um I'm only remembering the Chinese name right now yeah Red Sorghum. Red Sorghum. I've never seen that one. I'm only remembering the Chinese name right now.

Yeah, Red Sorghum. And it's the song that she's singing as she's walking away. And it's like, there's subtitles. A young Gong Li. Huh? A young Gong Li. Yes, a young Gong Li is walking away. And it's like, little sister, keep going, don't turn around.

Something like that. But like, my dad used to sing it to me as a little kid when I was young. He would just sing. And I had no film reference for it. I was just, like, the song that my dad would sing. And it's very, you know, it's very. You can put your whole body into it. Yeah, right.

It's very emotional. So my dad used to just, like, belt it. And so to make my grandma laugh, my dad and I sang that song. With no backing track. With no backing track. That's kind of amazing. You just did acapella karaoke. Yeah, really embarrassing.

But that song, I feel like we would have actually had a harder time to get the rights to in some ways. Well, yeah, it sounds like weirdly the things that are more obscure are harder to clear because no one put the time in to do the paperwork. Who would ever want to use this for anything? There's so much shit like that. But it's great. Culture goes on and on and things get surfaced. Our friend, J.D. Amato, when he was in college, worked at Troma Film.D. Amato when he was in college worked at Troma Film he was like an intern there

which made him number four in the ranks of Troma Film and he pitched them on this idea of like we should try to do Toxic Crusaders which was the weird Saturday morning version of Toxic Avenger a movie that is super transgressive

and the least child friendlyfriendly thing in the world, they briefly tried to make into a Ninja Turtle style cartoon that was all about saving the environment. Right. Which is not what the movie's about. A bunch of sloppy creatures. Right. And they're like, we're cleaning up pollution! Right. And the bad guys are all like, corporate monsters. Right. It was like somewhere between

Captain Planet and Ninja Turtles. And JD was like, we should try to do like a new Toxic Crusaders cartoon. And they pitched it to Adult Swim and they loved it. And they couldn't find the contracts. Right. From the old cartoon. They were like, we have the rights.

Oh, God. And he was like, I spent six months going through filing cabinets. And I found like the original cells from it. I found like the audio tracks. But not the contracts. I could never find the contracts to be able to do it. That's the Donkey Kong story. When Nintendo created Donkey Kong

and they were like, you know, he's kind of like King Kong, but like who's going to sue us? And then Universal was like, when it got big, when it became this phenomenon, Universal was like,

we are absolutely suing you. This is King Kong. You're ripping us off. Yeah. And Nintendo was about to be destroyed. Like that would have destroyed them. And then someone at Nintendo was like, do they own Donkey? Do they own King Kong? you're ripping us off. And Nintendo was about to be destroyed. That would have destroyed them. And then someone at Nintendo was like, do they own King Kong? And they checked and they did not.

No one had registered King Kong. It was just, Universal just assumed they owned it. And so Nintendo bought the trademark, the video game trademark of King Kong. Of Donkey Kong. But like, they made it so that King Kong could not

be associated. They got the Donkey Kong. But like they made it. Yes, exactly. They made it so like King Kong could not like be associated. You know, they got in there. They got the Donkey Kong rights before anyone had figured out the King Kong rights. Exactly. So we're at Nazca Valley of the Wind. Yes. Coming off of Castle of Cagliostro. Right.

This is Miyazaki's second film and it's his first film that he himself has like brought to fruition. But it's not a Ghibli film. No, Ghibli doesn't really exist yet. He sort of later gets the rights back. Right. But it's founded with Castle in the Sky, right? Doesn't he do Ghibli right after this?

Yeah. Yeah. This is kind of, that's why you would maybe call this like the guarantor. This is what gets him the cred to have his own studio. Yes.

And let us say, Lulu has put in more prep work than any other guest we've ever had on the show. And that you watched every Miyazaki film two times before coming on. Maybe an exaggeration. Not every. You tried to watch.

Right. But I also think it's important to watch. You have a very different experience when you watch the new dub version, the old dub version, the Japanese dialogue. I mean, as somebody who's bilingual and who's just made a film that's bilingual, that stuff is important. I have been tough on

myself about the fact that I have not been diligent about watching each one in both versions. Because I feel, I've been watching them all subtitled. And I feel like, well, that's like obviously the purer version, the preferred version. But I also feel like I'm not getting like 25% of the experience. The way this, I'm more of a, I've seen all the movies before.

Griffin's kind of a Miyazaki Nia fight. Griffin's more of an animation fan than I am. Griffin is more steeped in animation. This is a big blind spot for me. And I'm like, this is my immersion version. I had never seen the new Disney dub of this that was done, I think, about 10 or 15 years ago. 2005.

Yeah. So I watched the dub. I watched the Alison Lohman, Patrick Stewart dub. I do love how much all of the Disney dubs are such time capsules of the exact year the dub was done. Especially because Miyazaki often has a plucky female character.

Right. And so you're right. often has a plucky female character. Right. And so you're right. Like who was the plucky female, you know, sort of voice actor. They could be like sort of moderate star. Like Shia LaBeouf is sort of the plucky male teen that you can like from that era. Right.

This is sort of like the year before transformers. This is the one moment where Shia LaBeouf would be your choice for this. Like he's a couple years past being goofball, even Steven's guy. Right. But he's not yet serious leading man. He's not like Hollywood just being like, I guess you're the biggest star in America.

You know what I mean? Like after Transformers, they're like, let's find you some stuff to do. Do you remember that Vandy Fair cover that's him in the desert with a spade suit? And it says like, Shia LaBeouf has landed.

Is he the next Tom Hanks? Like that's another example. The things we do to people. I was going to say, of course he went crazy. Did you see any other movies when you were at Sundance? Because he had his movies.

He did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm friends with Alma. Right, right. Alma Harrell, I believe. Yes. I did not have, exactly,

I did not have time to watch a single other movie. You were just on the clock. My eyes were like down at the ground as I was being ushered from room to room and into cars and then into like another room. It's a very surreal place anyway. Like Park City, the whole Sundance thing is very surreal. Here's another question I want to ask you, and I apologize if this is something you don't want to answer because it's too stressful. Does it feel like you're running, like, a presidential campaign right now? Like, because of, like, you premiere the movie in January.

People love it there. It gets bought. You're doing months of lead-up to it coming out. Now you're doing the press afterwards. Everyone's obviously going, like, is this, like, could this be an awards thing? Does it feel like you're on just, this like year-long like endless trail? Yes. Right, right.

Yes, definitely. And then it's like keeping the conversation going. It's like the story is outside of the main story. And it's like, well, I put the story on film. What is every other angle that, you know, like that we can go, how's your cousin doing? And how's your dad doing? How's your mom? So what did she do before?

What did she do now? And how do they feel? And we haven't sold this side of you or sold you to this cross-section of audience. And you made a movie that's inspired by your own life. So you've got that where people are actually just like, so I feel like I know you really well. Like tell me more about your mom or whatever. Right? Yeah.

Right. Right. Yeah, absolutely. I can't imagine that like sense of like you spike a ball in January, right? The movie premieres. Everyone loves it. Must feel like a massive sense of relief to some extent. And everyone's like, cool.

Now you're going to work relentlessly for like the next 12 months. No, it's true. And every time I'm like, how much longer, guys? How much – like you're at the tail end. Like someone, one person from May 24 will be like, thank you. You're at the tail end of this. And I'll be like, thank God. And then I'll tail end of this. And I'll be like, thank God. And then I'll like talk to someone else and they'll be like, we're right at the beginning.

This is almost the end of the beginning. I'm like, what are you talking about? You know, and it's just like, it all depends on your perspective. Right, you finished phases of it. Yeah. That will transition into other phases. But because I've never been through it, I don't know what phase I'm in. I don't know how much longer the phases go.

what phase I'm in. I don't know how much longer the phases go. Do you feel that pressure of like, like, oh, like this, this is like testing really well. When we like talk about it like this,

this sees this bump in activity versus like, you're not like, no, getting your head about it. Yeah. No, I think they're just like, you know,

like don't, don't, don't say anything super weird. I don't know. I could name examples maybe of other directors and they're just like, don't do that. Don't do don't. Sure. Don't name the person you slept with the night before, you know, on air and be like, but I'm giving her a platform.

Yeah. Don't do that. And I was like, OK, I won't do that. Yeah. That's I mean, very good advice. Do you find, though, that, like, the limited bursts of press that I have done in my life, which are nothing compared to what you're going through right now, I ended up feeling like when I used to be, like, a greeter at the Disney store, and I'm just, like, auto-reflexively—

Which you used to be. I used to be a greeter at the Disney store. I'm not trying to, you know, throw down the gauntlet and press you too much. But I used to be the greeter at the Disney store. I'm not trying to throw down the gauntlet and impress you too much. But I used to be the greeter at the Disney store, second floor, Times Square. I don't understand why they need a second floor greeter because there were three first floor greeters. But they said the second floor should feel like a different store entirely. But when I had like my four lines of copy and I would just say them over and over again all day to different people. And when you're doing press, it's like this.

You generally talk about the same basic types of things. Kind of. Yeah. And then if I would find that if I would try to, for the sake of my own sanity, go off of the basic things, I would then get so nervous about like, am I saying something I shouldn't say? Right. Yeah.

But that's but I also don't want to feel like Disney and that's why I intentionally like just try to be present in the moment and respond authentically and yeah but it's hard because you're just like was it was I okay to say that? I don't know. It's definitely safer to stick to the script in some way.

That's the double edged sword but it makes you feel like a phony. It makes you feel like you're losing your mind. Sure. Yeah and I was just talking to a journalist who did a piece on AOC and also did Hillary did like a followed her on the campaign trail and was just saying how like what's so great about Alexandra is that she's so young and so excited and she'll just she'll speak her mind. She isn't jaded yet. She hasn't been like. You don't watch her give the same answer like 400 times exactly exactly and she speech 400 and she doesn't mind she's like ready to fight you know but then but and when she gets in the car it's sort of like oh how is that like let's debrief about it like a real person um but in following hillary unfortunately like she's just been bombarded for how many years?

She's been in the soup for like 40, 45 years. It's like someone that's been in the ensemble of Phantom of the Opera since like 1997. So when she gets in the car, she just sort of powers down and is quiet? No, the wall stays up. It's like the wall is up against press. She gives the things, the talking points, and when she gets in the car, she's always on, basically.

She doesn't know how to turn it off. And because it's a journalist and she knows it's a journalist, she is still on. So you just can't get beneath that wall. Whereas Alexandria, it's like you see that there's a human underneath. It's like doing their best. It's one of the zillion things that's so engaging and exciting about her. It's like,

you're like, oh, this is like me. This is a person I can like imagine. She's like answering emotionally. It's like the real version of like the person

you could get a beer with, right? Like that old like political litmus test. Like, oh, well, you know,

I could get a beer with that guy. David just picked up his water bottle. My empty water bottle. And pretended he was drinking a beer in case Lulu and I didn't get it.

Shut up. What are you saying? But I also, like, I, actors who I respect a lot, who I think are enormously talented and also are decent, seemingly centered human beings who have advised me, like,

you should just do the thing where you prepare all your answers in advance. Oh, yeah. And you give everyone the same answers so that you don't have the anxiety about saying the wrong thing or performance anxiety about did I do better at this one or worse of this one or this or that. But I just feel like like the Hillary thing you're talking about, that's like an invitation to start completely like disconnecting yourself from reality.

Yeah. You know, we're then like like, well, that's one of the things people talk about, like how like, like fame or success like distorts people. But I also think like press like really fucks with people's heads if they are under such a spotlight that they have to do it constantly. Oh, yeah. Media training. Right. People go through media training. And then you just become this like performative person all areas of your life.

And so protective that then it's just like, how are you ever to have that same sort of like uh organic emotional response to things yeah yeah i also see the importance of it right because i do think that there is a lot of press out there who uh you know they want a soundbite they might corner you or see you know where something goes wrong like you know let's say you you work with somebody that you shouldn't and then it's like well how are you going to apologize? How are you going to talk about it? And you, it's hard, right? Because you want to be honest but then if you get attacked for it

then you're like, well, can I curse on this show? Oh, yes. Okay, and you're like, well, fuck that. I'm not going to be honest anymore. Fuck that! Fuck that! Alright, such a relief. Yes. Yeah, no, I think, like, yes. These are things, there is nothing in the world that stresses me out more than this.

Yeah. Than, like, press stuff. And that sort of challenge of, like, how do you try to be an authentic person in a world where also any single bit of press you do could end up having an equal amount of weight. It's not like if you do something for the New York Times, you can just be on your best behavior for that. And the thing you do for like the Wichita Express isn't going to get coverage because it could just get screen grabbed and go viral.

Oh, exactly. And they can like grab like three sentences or whatever, one sentence and make it like a headline, take it completely out of context. And now you're engaged. You're forced to engage in a conversation about something that was is was not meant to be taken that way and i'm sure uh you have experienced this and david i know has experienced this on the opposite side of the table but just how fucking differently things read in transcript form it is nuts it is nuts and i do that happens to me when

i've interviewed a director whoever and you're a director, whoever, and you're like going through the transcript and you're like, and right. And you're like, oh, on paper, this seems aggressive or this seems not funny. Like, and I know it was said to be funny. Right, because you're missing tone. Yeah, exactly. And then you try to be like, affects this kind of a voice, you know, try to sort of maybe like communicate the intent of the comment or you're just like.

Right. That's why they're always those things in like profiles that are like, he stares off into the middle distance and bites just like. Right. That's why they're always those things and like profiles that are like he stares off into the middle distance and bites his lip. Because they're trying to get. But not like tone obviously is a big part of it. The other thing I find is like. If you're doing that a lot it means they didn't say anything. That's the real problem.

If it's a lot of talking about how they like look at the air then you're in trouble. The other thing I find is that like removing rhythm fucks with it a lot. This happened to me. I think I've talked I interviewed Mackenzie Davis the actress that's her name Mackenzie Davis

and she was for Always Shine which is this little indie movie with Sophia Takala great movie and I had like the most wonderful conversation with her

and we were just like so we were just laughing and saying all these and then I wrote it up as a transcript and I was like this is unprinted it's so boring like it's just two people

like chatting like there is some purpose to the more sort of like let me get a long answer out of you with a short question you know what I mean? I had a couple of those where I was like man like all that press I did like for like season two that interview never came out

that seemed like such a fun one they typed it up and they were like, this is just like two people talking. These are two dorks who like the same movies. Why isn't he answering questions about like, what was it like to work with? It's also weird to go off on, because I speak sometimes, like I just did right now, in tangents. Like I'll start to say a sentence and then I'll go off and then I'll come back. You're in the right place. This is home of the tangent.

Yeah, but if you type that out into a transcript, you're like, I sound so dumb. Why did they print that? Why did they have me start a sentence? You know what I meant. Like, take out that part. 100%. Yeah. I, like, sometimes will, like, I shouldn't do this.

I'm just going to go check on something. David's going to check on something. Okay, interesting. I will sometimes, like like reach out to someone. Now it's like, you know, Twitter and it's easy enough to like contact the person afterwards and be like, can you just like remove those two words? And I'm not like censoring myself and I'm not removing something that like is objectionable that I put in. It's just like.

It sounds dumb. That sounds dumb now. Yeah. You know? That's not what I meant and now it's, yeah. Right. I would love that. I actually would. I mean, it's a lot more work obviously for me, but if I had to read my own transcripts and then edit it out,

but yeah, I would probably like that. A couple times I've done that, especially with like phoners where I'm like rambling about stuff, the tangents are long. I'm like, can you just send it to me before you publish it? I won't change the intent of anything. Yeah. I just want to streamline some of my rambling. Yeah.

I wish that I am learning. I shouldn't say that because then people get fired for sending me shit, I guess. Yeah. Well, I mean, I just don't, I don't even know that things are going to be transcribed. Yeah. You know, I think we're having a conversation. They're recording for the sake of like being able to remind themselves and write to write the article. And then later I'm like, oh, you were going to just literally transcribe our conversation.

If I had known that I would have spoken differently. Right. All right, guys. Got it. Lula has a tighter time window than I thought. Interesting. So we got to talk Miyazaki now. OK.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We've been very tangenty, but I didn't realize you got a tighter window. I tell you, you got a long day. So let's talk Miyazaki. I'm sorry to pivot it. Okay.

So he makes Castle of Cagliostro. That's right. Which is not well received, despite being a fucking awesome movie. Sure. Because the fans thought it was too much of a departure from the series. Right, right, right. So then he is trying to make another film. Right. He writes the series. Right, right, right. So then he is trying to make another film. Right.

He writes a manga. Right. Well, that comes out of he tries to make another film. No bites. No buyers. Right, right. The publisher of the manga reaches out to him and says, I liked Castle of Cagliostro. Would you want to try to do something in print?

Right. So that's sort of someone throwing him a life raft. Which then after a couple years of him doing that he said I think I could probably sell this as a movie. He had now had a proof of concept by having something. But he never wanted to make a movie. That was not his intention. Right. Which I find really interesting that for him it was like I guess this is

the pathway to be able to make a film again. Which is what I want to be doing. But he didn't write it with like I'll show them and then they'll let me make it. And I don't think it with like, I'll show them and then they'll let me make it. And I don't think he even really, I think he had to really consider it before making it into a film because they're two different art forms.

It sounds like he had tried to pitch other films to the same producers and they were like, no, if we're going to give you money to make a movie, it should be this thing. Right. Yeah, so he kind of, not begrudgingly, but had to figure out how to adapt his own work

that was fully designed for a different medium and not just as some proof of concept. So what's your relationship with Miyazaki before I dragged you onto this podcast? What had I seen? Yeah, like, or yeah, had you watched him at all as a kid, or was it more something you discovered when you were getting into movies?

More when I was getting into movies. Yeah, I guess, I mean, I'd seen Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away but years and years ago and I'd seen Nausicaa but the Japanese version. I had not seen the stubbed version.

But yeah, I wouldn't say that I'm you know. You're not like a Miyazaki file or anything like that? No. I guess in animation in general it's not. I love it. I enjoy it. When it's good, it's great. But yeah, I wouldn't call myself

a, yeah. So what was it like to, yeah, to fire it up? How much did you get to watch like of other Miyazakis? Cause we were supposed to record this like a couple of weeks ago and we've rescheduled because you specifically asked for more time to watch more of the films. I know. And I wish that. Two thumbs up.

More work than we usually do. Well, and honestly, I didn't watch as much as I wanted to. I got the entire collection. I saw. Yeah. Right.

Not, not just the Miyazaki, but all of the other ones from the studio as well. Which are all worth it. I mean, the Takahatas are all amazing. Whisper of the Heart is amazing. Yeah. Didn't watch all of them. No, no. There's a lot of movies.

You have them. You're also on a publicity treadmill, right? Yeah. But we got to talk Nausicaa. Yes. So let's talk Nausicaa. Cool. Great.

So this movie opens awesomely. I did not realize, I had so little understanding of what this movie was before watching it. Whereas the other Ghiblis, I feel like I had more of like through osmosis. Like, oh, this is the one that's like about that or this. And then like 60 seconds in, I was like, oh, wait, this is his Starship Troopers? Sure. Like, this is his People vs. Bugs movie? It also feels like his 10th movie, not his second movie.

You know, it feels like some opus that you work your way up to, right? Because it's, like, this, like, big, dense, like, universe that he's constructed with all these, like, warring tribes and, like. And encapsulate all of his themes it's all his thing yeah planes flight flight i was gonna say right bugs female yeah protagonist right plucky plucky heroines it's also that thing though where this feels like man's relationship with nature you know what what the humanity has done to the world right at all for dominance of this stupid planet and like what is spirituality in the future going to look like?

You know, as religion falls away. But the other thing that like, it's, I think so far and away, the most plotty of his movies, which makes sense because he's trying to compress like this multi-volume thing he wrote into like a sizable narrative. Whereas I feel like from watching his other films, it feels like he tries to find a sizable narrative whereas I feel like from watching his other films it feels like he tries to find a very simple thing and then tell the story

as simply as possible with enough room to breathe. This is like his fastest moving movie. Which is what I appreciate. Because it's got so much ground to cover. Yeah. Well I appreciate that

because in a way I feel like I experienced that as a younger filmmaker that you in a way, don't know. You don't trust that you're going to have an abundant career and you're going to get to make. You're just sort of like, this is it. Somebody's giving me a chance.

I got to say everything I need to ever say. I need to put it in here. Yeah. And then, you know, and then you gain confidence maybe and you go, oh, OK. Like, it's better to explore something small in depth and really go deep and maybe I don't need to be. Something intimate and personal or quiet. Especially for him, if you're the guy who made the unpopular entry in a popular franchise, he's in that zone where it's like he made the last Jedi of Lupin the Third. Sure.

Where like some people were like this is a masterpiece and other people were like, not my Lupin. Sure. So the amount of backlash like this is a masterpiece and other people were like not my Lupin. Sure. So the amount of backlash he must have felt was like scary and then the time it took for him to be able to get another movie made and that it wasn't the thing he wanted to make the most but was this thing that happened in a roundabout way it does feel like him being like this could be my

last movie. Yeah. Leave it on the dance floor. That's so interesting because I felt that way about The Farewell which is my second film as well. Yes. So I mean that's a weird parallel., which is my second film as well. Yes. So, I mean, that's a weird parallel. You were sort of like, if I don't get to make this now, like. Yeah, and also because I had made a first feature, didn't get distributed widely. No one else was throwing money at me to let me make another film.

And I took The Farewell and made it into a different medium. Right. Right. And made it an IP. You made it into This American medium right right like and made it an ip right this american life and then that led me right to producers saying let's make that into a film right and then me going actually i found a sort of purity of expression in this other medium right maybe it's fine as and maybe maybe that's better right right? Which is kind of how Miyazaki felt when he did the manga. Right. To say, well, if I do this for film, are they going to make me make it?

Does it need to be bigger? Does it need to? How do I? And like with the bugs, he kept it identical to the manga. You know, and it was more about like, how do I maintain the spirit that's in the manga, the purity of it and transfer it to film which is something that I thought a lot about with the farewell was like how do I not

like suddenly make it these different plots and make it bigger and more cathartic than I want it to be how do I maintain the tone that I captured and how do you do that in the radio story.

Yeah. I mean, it's hard, but like, I don't know how you pulled that off. Well, you push against sort of the

inclination. Something like this. Like, can you introduce this kind of a thing? Yeah, you just question it and you go, because if this is successful,

why is it successful? Right? As a radio story, like, when you don't have visuals to look at and you have a very simple soundtrack and some, you know, textures. Like because I had recorded sound from the wedding and from my family and we did interviews. But there's something so pure about all that and yet it connects. And so that's the thing like I find about Nausicaa. It's like the simplicity of it is what is so meaningful and is what connects.

And so, yeah, I mean, I just would question the need for some really dramatic plot and some kind of low point, some kind of third act turning point. You know, all that stuff, right? Sure, some more like farcical or high stakes. But that's like, you know, I mean, the thing I love about your film and that I've been loving watching these Miyazaki movies and discovering them is just like that beautiful simplicity and that like confidence in the restraint you know where i just feel like

i watch the farewell i watch so many of these films and i'm like this is incredible that he's not doing the thing that 99 out of 100 filmmakers would do that he's trusting he can convey it with like this gesture and not verbalize this like you know huge emotional point which is like the farewell is like like so much undercurrent, so much unspoken stuff. Yeah, and it's also not creating these sort of artificial but standard binaries, right? Like good versus evil, and this is how a woman behaves,

this is how a man behaves, these are the good guys, these are the enemies, and, you know, there's a lot more complexity in all of that. Even with the bad guys And, you know, there's a lot more complexity in all of that. Even with the bad guys, you're like, oh, I kind of understand why they're doing what they're doing. It's out of protection, not just because they're, like, evil. Right. Right. That's incredible.

Like, you compare this to Starship Troopers. And Starship Troopers ends with Nazi Neil Patrick Harris reading the mind of the bug and cheering the fact that they're afraid. Because it's all about propaganda and this is like her being like oh wait fuck they're like just trying to survive you know it's like she comes at it with like complete empathy we have to get Lulu out of here

we can keep talking I think so I know I'm sorry I'm just going to say one last thing what I love too and I have a question about, is that he says that people have said Nausicaa is his most optimistic film. Okay, sure. Because it ends happily. Because it ends happily.

Things could be better. There are victories. Well, and he rejects that. He feels like, well, all my films are optimistic. They're hopeful but maybe the reason that people feel the most with nausicaa is because it has what he says is a catharsis at the end and he did that as a way just to wrap up the story and end the story and and uh said from from you know from from then on he never wanted to do that again is have this like catharsis yeah

ending like right yeah and i and i love that because I do think like, I wonder if that's a very Western thing to desire catharsis, to require it. Something must have changed here. Like why else would I have experienced this story? And in many ways, it's like his movies are not about like you watch the movie and then you feel good that things are changed in the end. It's like actually it's a calling to continue to think about these issues. It's not that simple.

Yeah, I think also like the most interesting movies, and The Farewell certainly falls into this, are like stories of people learning to accept what has been the case. Sure, right. Rather than being like fundamentally changed by something. Or like someone enters the situation and they for some reason are the person who can magically change everything. Like it's more just like a person enters the situation and they have to come to terms

with the situation. Right. When things become that fully transformative, you know? Yeah. And can that be a hero? Can a person be a hero simply by coming to a greater understanding rather than, you know, being actually the person who comes and changes the entire situation and saves the day, quote unquote. Right.

Right. Which that feels to me like a very like Western perspective of like, you know, put a bow on it. Like, done. Saved. We're good. Right. And Nausicaa deals with that shit and with also like, oh also like the legend of a savior coming with a blue dress from the sky and all these sorts of

things where like they view her as like an archetype of like the one where they're like well she's just gonna solve this. She's gonna save everyone and save the day. She's just a person who's trying to get a better understanding of the world. We'll keep talking but Luli I think I mean I

would love to keep you but but I think, you know. Are they, like, waving through the window? Yeah, they're waving. Okay. We only got an hour. They have a jackhammer. They're trying to break into the studio. I was going to try to name all the, like, current female people.

We talked about Britney Spears, like, who are Nausicaa. Oh, dude, let's do it. Speed round. And AOC. Yes, of course. Yes, right. Fuck, other people who are Nausicaa. Britney Spears.

Britney Spears, AOC. That's probably it, right? She wants to people who are Nausicaa. Britney Spears. Britney Spears, AOC, that's probably it, right? She wants to put America. Yeah. I'm sure there are. Like,

sort of young, like, you know, like the Rihannas of the world where people are like, this person is changing how everything works. Like,

it's, right? Like, and they have their, like, like a cast breaking. Like a diplomat, too.

Yeah. Like, in between two different worlds and saying like, hey, I'm coming from this side, but I'm not arguing for them. I'm here as a mediator, right? Right, right. The other one I keep thinking about is like Natalie Portman, who almost played Nausicaa, was announced by Disney to play Nausicaa. Is someone where it's just like, oh, culture's been putting all of our bullshit

on her for 20 years. Yeah, the arc of her career is great. When you think about the kind of role she played when she was a teenager. And the way she was talked about in the media. Lulu, thank you for coming. Please return anytime you want. I'm sorry our podcast is so long. No, no, I love it.

I'll come back when things are calmer. Sure. And we'll talk other directors. Amen. We're doing **** next and then ****. Done Ruben Austin yet? That might be a secret. We'll leak that out. We haven't. You haven't? No. You're a big Ruben Austin fan. I just talked to him for like an hour and a half. It was the most amazing thing. If you want to come and just do Lulu's

choice, I mean, we can do full-time. Lulu's choice. She's going to pitch you guys? Anytime. Yeah, anytime. Corrieta? Yeah. Oh, yeah. If it wasn't David's favorite. Yeah. Okay, and we're back.

We're back. Hi, we're back. Hi. Yep. I'm going to paraphrase everything that we talked about for the last 40 minutes when we took a break.

Okay, yes. We only had Lulu for an hour-ish, so. We thought we had it for longer. Yeah. Now, admittedly, we take up a lot of people's time. This is a fact. We do. We're very aware of this.

And then I realized we didn't have her for longer because she's got a whole day ahead of her. This is also a thing that publicizes. Yeah. Whatever. Very happy that they let her be on the show. Me too. I don't want to shit-talk anyone. I'm not shit talking anyone. I'm just saying when I was doing Tech Press and I was like, I want to use this to get on the podcast that I would like to guest on.

They would always be like, you expect us to let you sit somewhere for two hours only doing one thing? Wasn't Doughboys the one where they were like, we need him like all day basically? like we need him like all day basically they were like well we have to have dinner with him in long beach the night before and then over two hours to record the following day and i was like this is the most important thing in the world to me and they were like no fucking way here's the thing i want to say and i don't i don't i i you know this might sound like corny i'm connecting thoughts for the sake of neatness you know uh the type of catharsis we were saying we don't always need. Lulu feels like she's kind

of in a Nausicaa position right now. A Nausicaa position? When we were in this break, we were talking about how crazy it must feel to be her right now. And everyone's like, you! In intellectual circles, she is getting that same sort of attention of everyone being like, you, it's you. In intellectual circles, she is getting that same sort of attention

of everyone being like, you're the thing. Right, right, right, right. You're like a genius. Everything about you is fascinating. Right. Do you know about all the stuff that's happening in culture right now?

Right. Weigh in. Right. Sound off. But also all the expectations of like, we expect this movie's gonna get hardware in nine months. And like the fact,

the fact that it is like the best performing indie of the year in a year where indies are not performing well. She seems to be handling it very well, but I just cannot imagine the stress she's under right now. She is handling it, though, with the grace and valiant heroism of Nausicaa. Now, what do you think of Nausicaa, Griff? I like it.

I will say, weirdly, because we have largely been going out of order. Well, mostly in order. I'm sorry. I said the opposite of what I meant. We've been largely going in order, but this one we had to reschedule, so we're doing it a little out.

Right. We've done a lot of them already. Right. So, yes, we had mostly done them in order, and I feel like I would enjoy this more if I had seen it sandwiched in between Lupin and Castle in the Sky. Because now that I've seen the evolution away from it, this one feels a little busy to me. Where I'm like, hey, slow it down. But it's like what we were saying.

He might have just been like, hey. He's leaving it on the dance floor. Right. They're giving me money to make this thing I'm going to make this thing. And that element's impressive. Because he's taking his manga which goes on. Right. And sort of giving it a bit of a clear ending. Yeah. Right. Here's another thing about it which I kind of like.

But it's just an empirical fact. Sure. This is kind of the only one of his movies, and I'm not going to speak about this very elegantly because I will lack most of the terms, okay? Okay. This is kind of his only movie that I recognize has a bunch of animation cheats in it.

Oh, sure, sure, sure. Well, it was made much cheaper. Right. And like Lupin, he presumably had greater resources because it was a big franchise. Yeah. Already it was a proven thing and then after this he's proven himself and like this for example

once again a thing I aesthetically love this is no detriment to me I love practical shit I love the scenes of movie making you know I like being able to see shit but just because we've been watching these other ones that are like

so clean, so immaculate and are also on these Blu-rays especially transfers that are like off of the original elements of the animation whereas you're watching this and you're like this is a restoration of the film print

capture of the animation cells if that makes sense. Right, right. You know, like you see the flicker and the... What's the cheat? Here's like an example of a cheat. Yeah. It changes at the very end for the final couple of battles. But for a lot of the movie,

the big bugs are done with cutout animation. Uh-huh, yeah. So rather than... It kind of gives them a cool look, though. I think it looks rad. That's what I'm saying. It rules. Even I know what you're

talking about. Rather than hand drawing frame by frame these super detailed large things. They're kind of moving them. Right.

It's the style that South Park started with is now approximating where you cut out pieces of paper and you move those pieces of paper. And so like the big bugs are like four

different pieces of paper that they compress and expand like an accordion. But they're not like sort of pulsating and vibrating like if you were drawing every little element of them. No, they are. It's essentially two-dimensional stop motion. Right. If that makes sense.

Yeah. There's stuff like that. I think, and I have no proof to back this up, I imagine that the design of the facial hair on most of the main characters is also to simplify mouth movement. There are some big, bushy stashes in this film. And you have a majority of the male characters, and by that proxy, a majority of the characters who just have a mound of fur in front of their mouth that just vibrates a little bit when they talk. And you don't have to worry about... That's kind of a cool look, too. These are all things that I like.

I just think it's interesting to watch because after this... Because after this he becomes the maestro who's... Lush, right. And there was a thing on the Wikipedia that said that for this film, I don't know if this is a standard thing in Japanese animation or not, but I certainly felt like they only cited this to... Go cited this to pass along the pressures,

the financial pressures upon the movie, that the animators were paid per frame. Oh, crazy. So I imagine they were really like counting the beans about like, how many frames are you going to devote to, you know? Yeah, I do. And so I see more things where like, I see a couple of things too,

where it feels like the layered cell of like a Hanna-Barbera thing where like the character's kind of still and only their hand is moving. There are only a couple moments of things like that. But I found it very interesting to watch him trying to be resourceful and crafty because the scale of this movie is so fucking big the scale is big and the storytelling scale is also yeah right because like it opens and you're like it's like the seven days of fire there's an apocalypse yeah you're like okay it's a

post-apocalyptic world right get that right i get. It's fine. Here's Nausicaa. What does she do? Yeah. Flies on a cool glider. Mm-hmm. Wears a cool gas mask. Yeah. Is a princess, I guess, of like, you know, the Valley of the Wind is like, right?

And I'm like, okay, I can get that. Yeah. That's cool. And then like an airship crash lands and there's a princess in it and the airship was from one tribe and the princess is from another tribe. And then suddenly I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa i'm like whoa whoa whoa like i need to write this down i'm sorry i didn't get all this right yeah i felt that because the first 20 minutes i was like i'm getting it i'm getting it exactly yes yes and then i was like okay i gotta pause

reconsult the wikipedia 100 the thing that i think hangs was my hang up i remember the first time i saw it i didn't get that the princess who dies, who is not from the same kingdom as the sort of belligerent airship kingdom that, you know, attacks, right? Cool. I also did not get that until just now. Right. She and the Shia LaBeouf, you know,

the Asbel, are from a third kingdom. Right. The one that is not as warlike uh-huh and uh has found that old apocalyptic you know the the sort of crazy thing that they're sure right but would never deploy it uh-huh and they've been captured because the warlike uh the the you know the crazy princess lady in the metal armor yeah they're the ones who want to like deploy it right and so there's three factions yeah you could easily watch this movie and be like there's two factions right yeah there's the

valley of the wind people and there's everyone else right this was the one and it's all made up names yes this was the one too where as i was saying i was most tempted to put on the dub just because i'm like yes just might make my life a little easier. Sure, yes. It did. I watched The Dub. Yeah, I feel like I should have done it because I felt a little... I switched it about because it just got too dense. See, that's the thing.

I feel like I spent four or five hours watching this movie because I kept on taking breaks to try to reorient myself. And I could have just watched it with two hours with The Dub and I thought I was going to feel like a phony but now it turns out that I'm the only

one who didn't do that. That's fine. I have seen the subtitle version more than a couple times. I had never seen the dub. Yeah. And I think I'd never seen the dub because I associated this one with having a notorious dub and then I realized like oh no there is actually like a well regarded dub.

Right. And I watched the well-regarded dub and it seemed pretty good. I always feel the same way though where I'm like, oh, that's Patrick Stewart. Right. And then I'm just like watching this character that was not drawn with Patrick Stewart in mind. Yeah. And I'm just thinking of Patrick Stewart. I'm thinking of Jean-Luc Picard. Right.

And I'm like, Patrick Stewart, Patrick Stewart, Patrick. You know, it's just sort of like whispering in the back of my head and I just can of Patrick Stewart. I'm thinking of Jean-Luc Picard. I'm thinking, and I'm like, Patrick Stewart, Patrick Stewart, Patrick, you know, it's just sort of like whispering in the back of my head and I just can't avoid it. Lord Yupa is pretty cool. I mean, no,

but the thing where he grabs her sword and like is just slowly bleeding on it. Yeah. That's pretty cool. I'm loving how quickly we're just like sleeping back into our usual silly bullshit. Yeah, Lulu's here. We're like, oh my god, this person is fucking smart.

I want her to think that I'm not a moron. I didn't say anything. Ben's just like You saw the farewell last night. You saw the farewell, you were deeply moved by it. You texted us. Texting the shit out of us. Right. Yeah.

Because I have to do this with my grandparents. They're 97 and 95. That's very old. Wow. They're celebrating their 75th wedding anniversary in October. And they don't really remember me or each other. It's really sad. That is sad.

That is sad. So it was just heavy for me to see this movie with that context. And also, this is just a great- It's a very good movie. I think it's a sad that is sad so it was just heavy for me to see this movie with that context and also this is just a it's a very good movie I think it's a wonderful movie she made a great movie

I think it might be the movie of the year I have a couple other it's your number one it's my one two I keep flipping between it and The Souvenir I have not decided

guys my list is always in flux yeah but it is a movie that I saw at Sundance the lights came up the credits were rolling I leaned over to Esther my seatmate and said like that was incredible but it is a movie that I saw at Sundance. The lights came up, the credits were rolling. I leaned over to Esther,

my seat man said like, that was incredible. Yeah. And I never do that at film festivals. Usually at film festivals, I'm kind of like, all right, let me think about that. Right.

You know, you don't want to just come out and be like movie of the year. Well, cause especially at film festivals, like the thing could just, everyone else season is like, whoa, trash,

you know? And you're like, Oh, sorry. Not only that, but it's such a specific environment where you're like seeing so many movies a day. Yeah, quote unquote festival fever. You get distorted by certain things. Like movies play better or worse depending on what movie was before or after them.

And also the thing that is 100% true and not a joke, which is like there's the Sundance high altitude thing. Yes, it is. That sometimes works people's brains and like good movies get slept on and bad movies they're like oh Trump I can't feel my hands 100%

100% Sundance is crazy it's truly surreal but I like leaned over to Esther and I was like that was fucking phenomenal and we walk out

and then like what did Esther say she agreed she was like piece of shit yeah Esther rolls and she was like what did Esther say she agreed she was like piece of shit yeah she loved it uh and um she was like what and because the people like clap and I was like that was really

good and she was like yeah no you're right like um and then like a while later I was like just sitting this never happens to me just sitting and I thought about the ending of the farewell and I started crying yeah that's crazy I thought about the ending of the farewell and I started crying that's crazy I thought about the final shot of the farewell and then the emotional hammer blow that she reveals in the post credits and I started to cry

that's crazy I want to say a thing here we go he's getting ready to be cancelled no I just think you're gonna think I'm a lunatic for saying this. Because I'm very aware this is a very weird thing to say. And I don't want to sound like I'm like, What are you going to say?

No, let him preamble more. What's important is that I have been having this thought many times this week. It's been percolating and I'm like, should I verbalize this? I feel a little bit weird about the fact that I've never seen you cry. Oh, really? That's an interesting thing to say. It's kind of a weird thing to say, but

because I feel like... Why would you have seen me cry, though? Well, this is why I've been thinking about it a lot. Because you keep on talking about how much these movies make me cry. I don't cry at movies as much as you do. I'm a pretty easy guy. Like fucking The Family Stone made me cry and I hate that movie.

That's the thing. So I very rarely cry at movies. So I feel like most people have not seen me cry because it has to be like a very specific breaking point. Yeah if I saw you cry I think I'd be somewhat surprised. Right. Whereas I am surprised that I have not seen you cry, because we don't see

every movie together, but we've seen enough movies together that I'm like, it's weird we have not experienced a film together. Yeah, but we don't see that many. I mean, we see a lot of movies together. We see a normal amount of movies together, right? Like, we probably see, like, a movie a month or two, right? Plus, like, the commentaries or whatever.

Right, but I'm saying across four or five years? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I guess we're not often watching the movies that would like press my buttons or whatever.

No, but I'm just saying but even like you cried at the trailer for Max. Well, fucking I'm surprised we never saw the Max trailer together.

That dog he doesn't like the firework. He's a hero. And I don't like fireworks either so I also just identify with that he doesn't like fireworks. And we're two freaky peas in a far out pod. I always get that line wrong. Jesus Christ.

Even though it's like to you, like the transcendent emotional truth in American cinema. Two freaky peas in a far out pod. Well, I don't know. Watch the farewell of me because I fucking cry at that one. But I'm not like someone who loudly sobs usually. I'm more like. You said spirited away made you heave. That one fucking cry at that one. But I'm not like someone who loudly sobs usually. I'm more like... But you said Spirited Away made you heave. That one I sob at.

But I don't know if I would do that if I was with a lot of people. That's why though, because we'd record our Spirited Away episode. I'd probably be more of the sort of like... You know, the kind of like... We recorded the Spirited Away episode like two days ago. And I've just been thinking about you talking about how hard you were full body crying. And I'm just like, it actually feels

kind of like we have bad luck if we have seen that many films together and nothing has made you cry. I don't cry at everything. No, but as you said, it's not always connected to quality. Sometimes something just hits you. Something's trying to make you cry.

So I'm like, the number of films we've seen together, I'm surprised that not one of them has had a dog do something heroic. Oh, fucking Max. He's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, now I'm trying to think of other things has had a dog do something heroic. Oh, fucking Max. He's pretty cool. Yeah. Well, now I'm trying to think of other things that have made me cry, though.

Because really, right now, all we're talking about is Miyazaki, The Farewell. Yeah. Like, The Souvenir, a very powerful movie. It doesn't make you cry. But it doesn't, right. You said Shazam made you cry? Shazam makes me kind of choke up. Right, yeah.

I mean, it's not like But like you know it gets the water running Cause I'll say that's like the furthest I usually get Is choked up Big Fish makes me cry every time Big Fish makes me cry every time too Like nice healthy crying Toy Story 3 makes me cry every time

But even Toy Story 4 Toy Story 4 I got very well done See here's the thing I prefer Toy Story 4 But I only got choked up by the ending Oh you Even Toy Story 4? Toy Story 4 I got very well done. See, here's the thing. I prefer Toy Story 4, but I only got choked up by the ending. Oh, you see, Toy Story 4, Griffin. What are you... I should have just turned around

because Davey was crying. He was right behind you crying. I was trying to peek looks, but at that point, I was also pretty engrossed. But what do you think makes me cry in Toy Story 4? Because it's not Woody saying goodbye.

Hmm. Did you see Toy Story 4, Because it's not Woody saying goodbye. Hmm. Did you see Toy Story 4, Ben? These toys, man. Don't say it like that! Sorry. No, I didn't. But you haven't seen it, because we'll do them as commentaries on the Patreon for 2020, and you'll watch it,

and I'll watch you cry, and you'll say you guys were right, I love Forky. I've never seen 3. You'll like Forky. I mean, Forky were right, I love Forky. I've never seen three. You'll like Forky. I mean, Forky's a bad motherfucker. Forky's cool. Forky seems cool.

Remember when I used to say shit about Forky? Not anymore. Yeah, now you're engaged. To Forky. Right. Um, what was,

wait, I gotta think through. Okay, so it's something that happens at the, It's the moment, it's a very tear jerky moment. It's not like some weird moment. It's not like I cry when like,

fucking, the dad gets arrested. But it's not moment it's a very tear-jerky moment it's not like some weird moment it's not like i cry when like fucking the dad gets arrested but it's not what he gets saying goodbye it's the big emotional moment is it wasn't what he hugging no care about that i mean the dinosaur and the potato head those two man no no the big but i feel like you said it's not what he's saying goodbye now is it the moment of of what give me the answer oh okay you said it's not Woody saying goodbye. No. Is it the moment of... Of what? Give me the answer. Oh, okay. I'm really doing it as the sort of big, sort of tearful moment. It's when the girl is lost and looking for her mom.

The Gabby Gabby moment. I was going to guess that, but then I thought that wouldn't be right. No, and that's just the thing where it's like both... It's appealing to a sort of primal memory that most people have. Right. That's sort of like child traumatic thing of like being lost. And also just that child traumatic thing of like toys bringing you comfort, like objects bringing you comfort. But also just like, it's just well done, you know. Do you know what's the closest I come to crying in that movie?

I mean, I was fully like, I was like, you know, doing that. See, that's why I wasn't looking. Right. like I was like yeah you know doing that see that's why I wasn't looking right the moment that makes me

come closest to crying in Toy Story 4 is the opening what's the opening remind me just remember oh people going in the box

underneath the car and Woody considering getting in the box with her interesting and there's something about them being under the car

which reinforces how small and powerless they are in the scary world. And the rain really gets me. Well, I was more just impressed. I was like, ooh, there's rain. It looks unbelievable. Looks good. But I also was just like, this moment is so fully selling

how terrifying and dangerous this world is for them. And here he's being given this one moment to do something purely for his own enjoyment in life. Yeah. And he can't get out of his way enough to do it. I get you. That like broke me. Wow.

So Nausicaa. Nausicaa. Valley of the Wind. Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. Two ofs. Yes. Two thes. Yes. Two does. True.

Pretty baller. As we talked about, this is the movie that unites him with the South Takahata, who's the other great Ghibli director. Is this producer on this? Broad on as an executive producer. Broad on kind of reluctantly being kind of, I mean, they had collaborated before,

but like, you know, Broad on is like like uh you know you can help steer the ship um they were seen as talents rather than you know blockbuster guys you know what i mean it's sort of like oh they're talented uh i believe this is the first joe hisashi score's sort of, and it's much like his Castle in the Sky score. Castle in the Sky score. It's more electronic. It's very cool. Again, very fitting for like the sort of... It's more of a pulsating action score. Right. And

you know, one of the big guys from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Right, starts on this, right? Yeah, Hidaki Anno. Yeah. He did the God's Warrior, like waking up and all that. Is that the marinara sauce monster? Yes. Yes.

Yes. I like that guy. He's like dripping with red sauce. He's scary. He's like Monster a la vodka. So how to describe this movie? David, he's like Monster a la vodka. I love it.

He's Monster a la vodka. Ben, he's like Monster a la vodka. You know, my favorite place's Monster Aloe Vodka. Ben, he's like Monster Aloe Vodka. You know, my favorite place, Griff, my favorite sandwich place in the city, Anthony and Sons in Williamsburg, they'll do a sandwich called the FDNY, which is basically like chicken parm sandwich, right? Except vodka sauce instead of like marinara sauce. Wow. Same like breaded chicken, mozzarella, vodka sauce,

and the bread is garlic bread. Okay, that sounds good. Pretty good. Only problem, after you eat it, you do feel like you're dead. You know, you do have that sort of like, ugh. There is a place near my apartment where I had a sandwich a couple months ago. It was one of the best sandwiches I ever had.

I don't remember the exact ingredient list, but the thing that kind of blew my mind was it had breaded chicken cutlet and prosciutto. Ah, I love that. And I was like, people don't put those two things together. And then whatever the combination of, like, you know, the sauce, the cheese, the toasted bread, everything, I was like, this is one of the best things I've ever eaten. And this place would close early. Like, they would close at toasted bread, everything. I was like, this is one of the best things I've ever eaten. Right. And this place would close early. Like, they would close at, like, 1.30.

And I'm a late boy. Yeah. Like, they're just lunch, right? Oh, sure. And, like, with a pretty hard cutoff. Wow. I'm a late boy. I stay up late.

I sleep late. Mm-hmm. We usually record this podcast around that time. Mm-hmm. I don't necessarily want to have a whole sandwich before the podcast. So I would, like, keep missing my chance. And the podcast. So I would like keep missing my chance. And the other day I was like, I'm like up. I'm out.

I like had an early audition. I'm running errands. And I'm like, it's still I can make the cutoff. I can go back to this place and finally for the second time have this sandwich. And the place is shut down. Oh, what the fuck forever? Yeah. And I'm like, I once had this perfect sandwich.

But for me, I realized this is a sandwich I've been looking for my entire life. And I can't find record of it. As we talked about on Spirited Away, it's the sublime. You experienced it once and you will always chase it. I experienced sublime one time. It was my own personal little Miyazaki movie. Right, right, right. You like, you glimpsed, you know, something perfect.

And it's like, all I remember is just like the boldness of the chicken and the prosciutto but i can't remember what the other elements were okay because i was gonna say you can get chicken and prosciutto like you know you'll find places i'll give you that yeah but look i'm gonna fuck it up some way right yeah exactly it'll turn out like your sandwich makers like a men's rights activist or whatever also this place was like family run and like their like eight-year-old daughter was ringing me up and I'm like, I like this entire vibe and now they are gone? Who knows?

What the fuck happened? It's weird. It's almost like New York City is sort of pushing out those kinds of businesses and sort of constructing... Well, go to fucking Anthony and Sons because that's thriving you know and that's

that kind of business too I promise it's great you'll love it I live by that place it's on Graham Ave right yeah it's on Graham I used to live right by that place

it's fucking rural it's the best yeah and there are all these fancier newer sandwich shops no disrespect to them you know where they're like we've done a thing

and it's like those are great we have vegan meats and cheeses sure Anthony and Sons is more just like hey we'll make you sandwiches we've been a thing. And it's like, those are great. We have vegan meats and cheeses. Sure. Anthony and sons is more just like, Hey, we'll make you sandwiches.

We've been doing these sandwiches for a long time. I think his name is Leo. The wolf. You ever meet that guy that hangs out there? The Capra. No, his name is Leo. The wolf.

I think it's Leo. His full name. He hangs out there all the time. He has a popular Instagram account and he just basically talks trash, like with a real heavy Brooklyn accent. And he's just like think I know who you're talking about. He's just like he's like I'm gonna go off on like and it'll be like you know

some new movie like or whatever like so that was the thing. Is he like the bagel boss guy? He just is a regular that hangs out there just got a really strong opinion. You're the bagel boss. I should be the bagel boss. I should be the bagel boss.

I've been doing that. I've been going more out of my way to find good sandwiches. Hey, man. Which I know is, you've been on that trip for a long time. Welcome to David in his 20s. You know what I mean? Back before the internet, I had a little notebook. Did you really?

And I would walk around the city and write down any place I found. A lot of them are gone now. But then there's always new things too. Like, you know, it is. Dude, the best sandwiches ever for me as I worked at Il Bucco Alimentari Eveneria, which is a. I know that place. Rules. Yeah.

It's got a marketplace, a restaurant, you know, cafe area. Incredible place. And they do their own in-house curing of salumi. And they bake their own bread in-house. So I used to work in that section. I would make my own sandwiches, like cutting the meats and just like building up great, sloppy, messy sand.

Cutting the meats! Can I say something? Can I say something? We are so clearly, we're so wound up by trying to be impressive and smart for Lulu. And now we're just like, I love sandwiches. Well, this is connected to that. Why haven't I seen you cry?

This is connected to that. I think this is our best episode ever. Yeah, this is the best. This is the number one. I know usually I do the bit where I say this is the worst episode ever. I'm going to do the opposite bit. I'm going to be incredibly confident. I think this is the best episode we have ever done or will ever do the show. I'm going to do the opposite bit. I'm going to be incredibly confident. I think this is the best episode we have ever

done or will ever do. Great. I think there's a different vibe here. We're all talking about it. Look what they have against us. The first time we had a big guest who had a publicist with them. We knew we were under a time crunch. Usually if a big person has come in the past like Chris Weitz or whatever, they're just here and we're like,

you should run this by someone. Why didn't you you why did you come here right you maniac and we're like do you have a heart out there like no i'm on vacation take as much time whatever man usually weirdly when these people come in they're like no i cleared out the next eight hours right right right right so this is the first time we've had that kind of thing and then it turned out we had less time with her than we thought we did. Sure. And then we were like, so, like, fuck it, we got Lulu here. We need to be like serious good boys. Serious

good boys. This needs to be a very smart podcast. Yeah. And now I feel like it's not even we're in that goofy mode that sometimes happens when we're wound up. Yeah, like an extremely goofy mode. Right, an extremely goofy mode. Right. Where we're kind of like punchy. Yeah. I feel like we're all in like a weird sort of like.

We're just sort of like feeling kind of like live wiry. You know what I mean? We kind of got some energy. But see, I feel weirdly balanced, right? At this moment. Okay, cool. Right. You're like chill.

After like the hump of whatever stress. Like are we going to fuck this up? You know? There's that. There's that. Yeah. And also we've been doing a lot of episodes. You guys saw King Kong.

Maybe he brought you some serenity. God, we did have a really good time watching that. I'm glad you had a great... I literally saw Oklahoma the same night. We were both on Broadway, just different parts. I cannot remember the last time I so thoroughly enjoyed watching something I did not like. Yeah. And I wasn't getting perverse enjoyment out of it.

It was just the puppet is so fucking strong that I did not care that i did not care about the rest of it right but i sort of i would say the only thing my only thing about the movie other than the music or the the musical yeah the musical yeah the and the dancing bad like all that stuff yeah the script's bad the songs are bad just sort and like most performances are bad right the cultural context of King Kong might be bad. I try to, it's weird. You're never going to pull that out. Puppeteers,

all these people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kind of wish it was just a big guy. Like they get a guy who's like seven feet tall and then cast a bunch of guys who are like five feet tall. Well, they get the baby from spirit.

I don't want. I want to see a big hand marionetting that shit. Wait a second, Ben. So you just are asking for, here's how this would work. It would be Ant-Man logic. Everyone who entered the theater would be shrunk. The theater would be the size of like a matchbox

and then you would, but then there would be someone who's not in the theater who's regular sized so that he would appear as giant to us. David, what you're describing to me would be selling out. I think it would have to be locating a 25-foot tall man. Yeah. Because what I like is when Ben said a big guy, I thought, okay, how big? You thought he was talking like seven feet plus, right?

I guess the puppet's like 25 feet tall, I'd say maybe, right? That seems like the right math, right? And I imagine that Ben was like someone who is the same size as the puppet or close to the size of the puppet. 20 feet tall. Standing behind it and operating it. But what Ben is saying is this guy has to be so big that merely one hand fits into our view and that hand

is just casually working the entire puppet like a marionette. That this man is galactus size. Yeah. That his kneecaps would barely crest the top of Times Square's

biggest and brightest skyscrapers. It's just some feedback. I agree with you. And I, once again, want to restate that this is the best episode we've ever done.

That's great. I totally agree. Okay. Nausicaa fell hit the wind. Yeah. I mean, we've been all over the place, but I don't know. What do we want to talk about

with Nausicaa right here I think it's interesting to talk about the alternate version the alternate version? the Americanized version yes one thing that's worth Manson International Charlie Manson's company I don't know who Manson International was

and Showman Inc produced a 95 minute English language dubbed animation called Warriors of the wind yeah uh it's so fucked up that there's not even a listed cast so no one even knows this poster it looks like a heavy metal like yeah yeah cover no one even knows like who is in it like who took part in this it's like a snuff film you It's like no one will admit to being involved, but it exists. The tagline is, a band of young warriors on the wings of their

greatest challenge. Nausicaa is the smallest character on the poster. Right. The center is the marinara monster that is in the movie for like five minutes

right but being rode by the prince holding up a machine gun over his head yes like in Luke Skywalker

pose yeah uh the film basically turns into an action adventure movie where like the environmentalist

themes are kind of gone the whole ohms the ohms the trilobite things are just enemies there's no like uh

the characters names are changed Nausicaa is called Princess Zandra which is hilarious. And this was so stupid that that's sort of I think the beginning of Miyazaki being like I

approve any American version. You don't get to change anything. Famously when Harvey Weinstein wanted to cut Mononoke, he was like, I'm going to make some cuts because it's like two hours and 17 minutes. I called him Harvey Scissorhands. They sent, I don't think it was Miyazaki.

It was his producer, right? Yes, it was. Koshio Suzuki sent a katana, a sword to Harvey Weinstein with just the message, no cuts. Now, let's spend 15 minutes talking about this because I cannot get over this. To send someone... A katana is the sword that traditionally you need. Traditional samurai sword. Here we go. He mailed him

a massive, incredibly sharp and dangerous samurai sword with a note that just said, no cuts. Now, removing the fact that in hindsight, more people should have been sending Harvey Weinstein death threats on a regular basis. Sure. Right.

We should have been sending him all sorts of dangerous things for decades. Anthrax, what have you. That also is just one of the most badass things I've ever heard. Pretty badass. Because Scorsese has that story about the night that he almost had a mental breakdown when Columbia wanted to recut Taxi Driver and he was going to go into their offices with a loaded gun and hold them hostage because he was like, I'm willing to die for this movie if this movie doesn't come out.

I have no reason to live anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of crazy to just casually in the mail FedEx someone. And Harvey's like, okay, cool. No cuts. So, but this happened many years ago. The crazy English language version.

But I also think this is one of his few movies that you could recut in that way. Sure. You know? You could bastardize it and turn it into just like heroes versus villains right and this is a movie yes where like his other films it's harder to strip the Miyazaki out of like Mononoke also an action adventure movie yeah there's no real villain the closest thing it has to a villain is presented so subtly that like it's just really hard to like cast her as a villain the villain in this who in the English dub I think is voiced by Uma Thurman,

like the armored villain, is more straightforwardly bad. She's been corrupted by the world she lives in. Yeah. Right? Like it's sort of like a dog-eat-dog world, bug-eat-bug. But like her goals are bad. Yeah. She wants to revive the world ending

like weapon right you know she's no good but right but her her sidekick is is like kind of a classic

like sniveling weasley kind of like that guy like Griffin Newman type but you know the classic Miyazaki thing is that like

everyone coming to realize that everyone or at least the protagonist coming to realize that everyone is just trying to survive. Right. The basic curse of existence is that people do horrible things

in an effort to try to stay alive because everyone's terrified of their own death and their own lack of power at all times. But this movie, you can recut and redub it in a way where she then plays as a more classic, like, the fucking villain. Yes. You can remove that because it's less completely, inextricably interwoven into every single moment. But, I mean, like, have you ever read Dune, the book, Dune?

I believe I tried reading the first one when I was far too young because my much smarter nine-year-old friend was into Dune and I was like, cool, I'm into reading a new thing. Oh, I'm nine. I cannot handle this. I think that book is a little too dense. I read probably a hundred pages of the first one when I was nine. This does have kind of Dune-y over time because it's sort of like

this blasted world with these creatures that they can't understand. Nausicaa is sort of like the feminine Dune who are sort of like they can work the land. They figured out ways to sort of like coexist. Right. Yeah. And then you got the more industrialized nations. Yeah.

The other tribes. Right. That are kind of more like trying to run roughshod over everything. I was going to get some NG vibes. Out of harmony. Huh? I was going to get some NG vibes. Yeah.

The Mad Max thing. Mortal Legends. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. NG. ng sorry i was i was i was rendering that as ng if i can describe to the listener the double take that ben just did at david not recognizing ng you guys are the bigger ng boys i'm like a medium ng boy yeah well you should fucking fix that you should come come correct, David. Okay? Well, they should recast the leads of Mortal Engines. Oh, I said it!

I think. They're not that good! I think she's really fucking good. Yeah, that's crazy. I think she's really fucking good and the movie

has a BBP. Yeah. A boring boy problem. I agree with that, but I think that's a very good performance from the actress whose name I don't remember.

Great, great. I like the engines. we stan a reanimated legend. Obviously, I don't remember. Great, great. I like the engines. But also, we stan a reanimated legend. His name is Shrike the Bionic Man. If the film was called Shrike, it would have won Best Picture ten years in a row from me. I would have

just been like, that's it! Don't even compete! It's really actually fucked up that they didn't even give him Best Supporting Shrike at the Oscars. I know it came out so late. You know, Meryl, she just swoops in there. She got Best Supporting Strike. She does it a lot.

For Mary Poppins? Yeah, weird. Playing Topsy Wopsy? I forgot she was in that. Can I say one of my classic overly mean stupid things I shouldn't say because it will probably harm my career at some point. Man, Rob Marshall must be really pleasant to work with. I think he actually is.

I've heard good things about him. Because everyone fucking loves doing these movies with him multiple times. I think he's really passionate and committed, and I think he is a genuinely outstanding choreographer, and I don't understand how he fucks his choreography up so much. He sabotages his own work. It's so crazy to me watching Mary Poppins. He's his own worst collaborator. He's a great choreographer and I don't understand how he fucks his choreography up so much. He sabotages his own work. It's so crazy to me watching Mary Poppins where I'm like he's a great choreographer. He choreographed

that great lamplighting dance number. Stop fucking coming! Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Let's go inside. I'm like, can we go out? Can I see it? I want to see it. But I'm also like, why would you even get that piece of coverage? Why do you have this shot to cut to?

I don't know. I don't know. He must be a fucking mensch, though. I think he's really nice. I really have heard nice. I've heard he's the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just incredible that Meryl's like, yeah, literally anything you want to do, gladly,

with bells on. I'll just drop all. Yeah, right. Yeah. Wopsy, wopsy. Nausicaa. Nausicaa. So, she's really cute. She's really cute

She's really winning Okay hey hey hey What Nausea? I'm allowed to say she's cute? Keep it in your pants I'm just keeping it in my pants You're an engaged man though Dvorki Dvorki

I've seen the self evident thing She does all this cool stuff at the start of the movie Then Lord Yuppa comes back And gives her basically a Pokemon, you know, like a proto-Pokemon. Right. That thing rules. Right. Who comes back in Castle in the Sky, right?

Aren't they in, not this specific one? Like that creature, yes. This creature, right? Yes. And then they get attacked. First, there's the Crash and the princess who dies, right? Yes. And then, very swiftly, there's the crash and the princess who dies, right? Yes. And then very swiftly, there's the Tomelkians who-

And the crash has the husk of the bug. Yeah, yeah. No, the bad boy, the marinara monster. Yes, yes. I'm sorry. Yes. And the Tomelkians come because they're trying to seize that thing. They want that monster.

That whole sequence is kind of devastating. Her dad just dies yeah and it's kind of not even spoken and she's so crushed and Yupa has to like intervene and be like no fighting no fighting Nausicaa you're gonna have to deal with these people rather than like

they killed your dad you should just go hog wild you know what I mean it's kind of like she has to deal with these fucking armored grunt, you know, assholes. Is that, is that when she retreats to her secret garden?

Yeah. I like that. She's got a little underground secret garden. And you was like, what is this? This is crazy. Well, because those plants should be toxic.

Toxic spores. Right. Um, and yeah, you know, right. There's that. It's that,

I mean, we talked about Fern. which episode did we talk about Fern calling on was it Spirited Away probably every episode Mononoke Exos Eco Adventure films you know but like you know those movies where it's like at the end

it's like there is a way to grow plants you know like WALL-E fucking has that right you know yeah the promise of like no we can do that's that's central to Dune that everyone's like, no, we can, Dune has, that's central to Dune that everyone's like, you can't grow anything on Dune

and these people are like, yes, you can. We're just not doing it right. Like, we gotta figure it out. This ends with the very Wally image, which is like the last frame in the end credits is the one.

The non-toxic tree, right. The little sprout, the one little leafy. Little sprouty bout. Little sprouty, little sprouty bout. I don't fucking know. And then, I don't know. We got a little sprouty bout I don't fucking know and then I don't know

we don't really have to go through the plot here but like Nausicaa goes on that insane journey uh huh with Edward James Olmos and the dub I just really enjoyed

his performance he's got the greatest voice he's fantastic yeah there's so much of him because he's kind of her constant companion yeah

another bushy haired man right he's got this sort of mustache. Yeah. Another bushy haired man. Right. He's got this sort of mustache. Yeah, covering his mouth. The pilot guy. Yeah. Should I read from my book? I found this interview that he gave the day it came out in 1984. It's like it's dry ice, but David has taken out the leather bound

volume with a metal clasp on it and a growing seal that's a lion holding a scepter. You know, we didn't do it for a couple of the later ones, but you know, we've done, we have consulted this tone. David,

I don't like to hit a bit too hard. Okay, I let it rest for a while. So what are some, like, I'm reading, it's this crazy interview because you're thinking about,

like, this is a young man. Like, I mean, youngish, right? Like, this is him in his first,

and he's still talking so candidly. They're like, how you doing? Like, according to Toei, the distributor, this movie is really great. Like, the satisfaction is high. And hehuh. They're like, how you doing? Like, according to Toei, the distributor, this movie is really great. Like,

the satisfaction is high. And he said, everything's terrible, everyone's the worst. No, he's like, I don't know how I feel about the last scene.

I feel like it's not over. And he's like, what do you mean? He's like, she dies, and then she's held up, and she's bathed in the golden color by the morning light,

and it feels like a religious painting. Spoilers. And I said, and me and the producer said to each other we've got a problem which is so crazy to me that he sees the film he's just like this is too religious this is too like she i didn't he says i didn't intend her to make her joan of arc and i want to get rid of any religious undertone uh and then when we're producing it i'm

like this is undeniably like we can't like, it's just going to have that undertone no matter what we do. I just didn't want her to be a religion. I, you know, I wanted her to be a strange girl who regards the lives of insects and humans in the same way, which to him is like, that's weird.

Yeah. You know, like it's not that crazy that most of the people in this world are like, we're the humans, right? We got to fucking nuke the insects. They're this world are like, we're the humans. Right. We got to fucking nuke the insects. They're problems.

We don't have fucking bug faces. Right, exactly. It's Starship Troopers, right? It's like, they're different. Yeah. We can't communicate with them. Yeah. And that's sort of her power is that she can sort of, like, view these insects as, like, comparable creatures. And it's like and it turns out

you kind of need the insects. Can I talk about a thing that I forgot to mention and you're going to be angry that I'm bringing this up. Sure. But it's a big It's like four times.

I know. It's a big thought I have. People are going to think I'm like this rage monster. David! Don't bring that up! Go on. Go on.

I was really upset that I had brought this up in the episode because I have not seen anyone else comment on this. Okay. In The Lion King, a thing I found very unnerving is that when Timon and Pumbaa eat the bugs,

in this movie, it feels cruel because all the animals are so photorealistic as opposed to a very stylized cartoonish thing where it's like well Tumatapumpa are like anthropomorphized and the bugs have no faces. Right the bugs are just bugs. In this the bugs behaviorally act like they're scared

and they don't seem like any less alive. I didn't dwell on it but I know what you mean. It bummed me out and like other than the fact that they're not speaking, it feels like there's no distinction. And if they made this whole thing about like, you're here in like the plains with us now, you can't eat like antelopes. Let's eat these

bugs. And there's a moment where they animate the bugs like trying to run away from Timon and Pumbaa. And I was like, this movie doesn't understand that this is fucked up now. Whereas Nausicaa is like the one person who's like no they're like alive see how i transitioned right back into the thing we're supposed to be talking about now i'm gonna read this other quote from the book she values life

she recognizes life yes i'm gonna read this other quote from the book that is has been passed around before is somewhat notorious and is a little insane but I do feel like we cannot not acknowledge it. You probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Interviewer. Nausicaa is very attractive. Oh, boy. Miyazaki. Her breasts are rather large.

Oh, come on. Interviewer. Yes. Miyazaki. That's not so she'll be able to breastfeed babies in the future or make love to a man who will steal her heart away. It's not. It's weird. It's not like outrageously sexist. It's not, it's weird. It's not like

outrageously sexist. It's just odd. I know. I just, I'm not liking this. Go on. I think her bosom needs to be large so she can embrace all those old men and the women who are in the castle when they're dying. They have to, she has to allow people to feel secure. She embraces them as they're dying. The interviewer is like, okay.

He seems baffled by this. Yeah, he also is the one who fucking brought it up he did bring it up say i want to jam your main character he's like she's really pretty and miyazaki's like well the interesting thing about her is that her boobs are drawn bigger because i want her to embrace people in a sort of comfort the old man look it's not creepy in a way that i think is malicious but but it makes me uncomfortable. It's also, we're talking about a 35-year-old interview. Yes. Yeah, I mean, like, it's a lot.

I understand. But also, could you imagine if, like, while promoting, like, Frozen, they said to Jennifer Lee, like, so, like, Elsa. How about these boobies? Yeah. Yeah, what are we thinking?

Va-va-voom! No, but even, like, saying, like... Oh, just, like, Elsa's hot. Right, they're like, so... I got a crush. Moana, she's pretty attractive, no? Oof. Yeah, right, yeah. You know?

I do know. Like, think about like how fucking creepy everyone agreed it was when Anthony Lane wouldn't stop talking about his boners for Mrs. Incredible. Yeah. Elastigirl, I always get dragged for fucking saying that thing. It's a bit. I know, I know. I think it's funny to say that. And then people assume I'm stupid.

Which I am. But that's a separate independent truth from this conscious bit I'm doing I'm saying everyone was creeped out by that and rightfully so remember when Lulu Wong was on this episode? that was wild what if this episode is the thing that

cost her the academy award that they present this as her morbid we immediately knew the same thing the front runner for best screenplay. And then they're like, did you hear? She?

Blank check. Those two idiots were talking about fricking Frozen and Hot. Yeah. They made her talk about Britney Spears. Oh, that was great. That was good. And that was really good.

Yeah. That's when we won the Pulitzer. Then it gets taken away when they hear the rest of the episode. Oh, okay. They're like, no. There's a reason this is on a ribbon.

Yeah. You can grab it. Right. Ah, Nausicaa. The alt-right's going to claim that she was here in the studio the whole time. Oh, my God. You don't like me even saying that. She was condoning everything we were saying and giving thumbs up.

So, I really like that moment when they crash in the jungle and there's a gnome. And she uses the bull roar thing. They're like... Yeah, very cool. Like the bull ohm sort of... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then she meets Asbel, who comes in late. He's late.

Voiced by Shia in the dub. Kind of a cute performance by Shia. Good job, Shia. When he's in his like... We talked about this. But you know what this specific period is that I find interesting? What? It's the, like, I'm sort of apprenticing major movie stars.

Right, when he's in Constantine and I, Robot. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, 100%. He's like, let me stand next to a guy who gets, like, $20 million a movie as top of the call. Right. He's a guy recognizing your saints where he's young downy. Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's good, good though in the dub but this sub is obviously in my opinion always going to be a little better and that's when she realizes they crash into the non-toxic like the below level they're like oh like

there's another way to do it like there are spore free growths and jungles. Her garden was like, uh, yeah. I mean, her garden is underground as well.

Even with the spores, it's still, you know, more fertile down there. And then there's just this sort of bananas, like 35 minutes of action. Like, it's like a huge chunk of the movie is this large extended,

like versus they're in the planes and they're being attacked and like I checked the time code and I was like this one must be almost over right and then I was like oh no he's gonna do a 35 minute extended action then there's like the Oum stampede and that shot of the baby you know like with all the like missiles wedged in it

and then like she rescues the baby but the Oum stampede's continuing and she's gotta heal the baby and bring it to them. And like, it takes, and that like, it's good,

but it is a lot. Like, I don't know what a kid gets from this movie. I don't think it's more of a movie for teens. Like I think teens are more ready to like take on this world. Yeah. Uh, I really do like it though.

It's, I was talking with Stefanski last night, best, which you guessed. Um, and she was like, it's my favorite. And I'm like,

obviously it's like their buggy. it's the buggiest Miyazaki but she was talking about seeing it as a teenager and I'm like that's probably when you can wrangle a big sci-fi world like this. I do feel like I'll say this is one of the last ones we're recording yeah we only have

two more. I'm speaking to you from a future in which I have now seen most of the Miyazaki move. Although narratively at this point, I have not. Yes. And for most of this podcast, you will be discovering him film by film. And you'll hear those discoveries and it goes to Grifman's future. But I keep thinking as I'm watching these, I can't wait to revisit these movies. Ah, hell yeah.

You know, like I'm like, I can't wait to every couple of years be like, I'm going to go through them all again. And you've got them. Yeah. Like I have it now. And the next time I'll just like, I'll do like a run where I watch the dubs of all of them. Yeah. I mean, it's been a new thing for us to do. I mean, it's unusual for us as a director where basically all the movies are regarded as good.

Yeah. We've done it before, I guess, but it's unusual. It's just hard to have that kind of a run. And then also, it's not a movie where there's an obvious blank check. The blank check is the sustained strength of his career,

that he got Ghibli off the ground. He's made incredibly ambitious movies, of course, but it's not like there's one insane reach. I would argue that in the case of his career, most filmmakers would like any one of the films. They would kill for any of those movies. Would be a blank check. And most people only do one thing that crazy their entire career.

One or two. And he gets to do like seven. Right. And it gets to his, obviously, he's no doubt an incredibly committed and an almost insanely passionate artist right right a monk-like commitment to right monastic obsessive yeah yeah it is funny that this and this episode kind of has the energy of like us near the finish line because it is and uh for you you lucky lucky guys are going to get a pretty, I would say,

a pretty good series. Hey. The JD Totoro episode is completely off the rails of fucking stupid. Absolutely. Chaos is bad. So just be forewarned.

That might be the worst episode we've ever done. That might be the worst episode we've ever done. JD's going to yell it out. It was necessary. It came out great. Okay, it came out great.

But it was necessary as like also a follow-up to his masterpiece, the Billy Lynn episode, to do like your kind of Oasis's Be Here Now, you know, where they're like, let's just throw everything in the cauldron. Let's see it. You know what I mean? And also. It's his blank check.

No, but I would argue it was him being like, I'm not ready to cash my check in. I'm going to do a jazz set. Oh, yeah, maybe it's that. Right. This is like. He's doing the weird movie. It's not a throwaway project, but it's like, I'm going to do a jazz set. Oh yeah, maybe it's that. He's doing the weird movie. Not a throwaway project, but it's like, I'm going to do an experimental thing. This doesn't

really count. I'm holding onto my check for a little longer. That's cool. Right, because he's going to cash his check next year. Yeah, get ready. And, you know, potentially talk in the Walk 2020. That's true. We're still trying to figure out. Yeah, I heard a rumor that you're not going to like, but we'll talk about it.

Oh boy. It's not that bad. It's just like that you're not going to like, but we'll talk about it. Oh, boy. It's not that bad. It's just like, you'll be kind of like, oh. I had a really exciting idea for Talking the Locked Money. Yeah, we'll see. We'll do it. Look, we're going to do something. And it's going to be a colossal seismic cultural event.

Yeah, definitely. And I promise you there'll be new shirts. We gotta make that promise. The only fucking box office I can it's listed is this year's re-release of it. So it's literally like fucking May of

it's like two months ago. I know. I was supposed to go with our friend Ramona Head and I had diarrhea. I'm sorry. Retired bed. Ramona. I bought the tickets, though. So you're saying, like, my money's on that board. Yeah, my money's up there.

So here we go, buddy. It's May 17th, and you know what? We are going to talk about this, because you have a hot take anyway. Okay. You should mention on the podcast. May 17th, 2019. What was the number are going to talk about this because you have a hot take anyway. May 17th, 2019. What was the number one movie? It's a new movie. Avengers Endgame has been... It's number two. After four weeks, it has

been reduced to number two. Is it Detective Pikachu? Is it Detective Pikachu? No, that's number three. Oh, so it came out the week earlier, didn't hit number one. That's correct. Look how vague my memory of the recent past already is. There you go. Is this the one I out the week earlier and didn't hit number one. That's correct. Look how vague my memory of the recent past already is.

There you go. Is this the one I have the hot take about? Yes. I wouldn't say it's a scorching take, but it's a fairly hot take. It's not Aladdin.

No. Is it John Wick 3 Parabellum? John Wick Chapter 3 Parabellum. Right. One of my favorite movies of the year. One of your favorite movies of the year

and you contend the best Wick. Yes. Now, I saw John Wick 3. I had a great time. Yeah. I thought it terrific uh-huh i can't wait for more i did have that feeling watching it where i had somehow gone in being like well this is probably it right and then i remember like 45 minutes in i'm like oh this definitely is not gonna be it this feels like a transity movie you know like we're getting to another chapter i will say that's

the biggest complaint i've heard about the movie is people saying it fails to... But I have read this complaint. Not from critics as much as like people on Twitter and shit, especially after I said this thing about it being the best one. And then inexplicably, for no clear reason, Fandango retweeted it. Hey, sure.

Because I guess they like tweeting things when people are like, I like this movie. People should see this movie. Right. And then I just had a thousand people being like, actually, this movie. People should see this movie. And then I just had a thousand people being like, actually, you're wrong. Your opinion is wrong. Yeah.

Clearly, this was an IMA show. That's kind of how I read most comments. To me, it was just like, I had to adjust my expectations midway through the movie. I just saw that thing where they were like, I don't like the movie because it fails to conclude the trilogy. And I would say in response to these people on Twitter, well, because it's not a trilogy. You know, I never promised you a trilogy.

And they would say, well, I felt like it should have been a trilogy. Well, I feel like I should have a million dollars. Now, here's my thing. Yeah. I feel like in a world in which this one wasn't inexplicably not inexplicably, justifiably one of the most successful films of the year but one of the only films to not underperform at the box office

along with The Farewell it's like the highest grossing non-Disney film of the year well, no, because of Spider-Man I know Spider-Man is squidgy but Disney didn't release it I'm aware, and then John Wick is squidgy, but Disney didn't release it. I'm aware. And then John Wick is after that, right?

I believe so. Disney's got five out of the top six. No, Us is after that, then John Wick. Okay. John Wick might end up passing Us. John Wick is eight. Maybe. 169 versus 171?

75. For Us? For Us. I don't think it could make it 161. Another movie I love. Yeah. Here's my thing with John Wick, okay? Mm-hmm.

I, because I saw, third one, loved it. Then I re-watched one and two and saw three a second time. So I revisited the whole trilogy in quick succession. This was not a fired off the hip. Yeah, and that's when I made my tweet. I had always had this thing where I was like, why am I so okay with the gun violence in this movie

you know aside from just being like oh it's cartoonish it's like ridiculous it's like ballet it's whatever I'd be like I do have this thing with other movies like even we talked about when we did our Thor commentary when like Scourge at the end of that like has the two machine guns some people find that very uncomfortable

gun fetish stuff I just get really uncomfortable and I was like why does this not bug me at all and I saw the third one has the two machine guns. Some people will find that very uncomfortable. Gun fetishy stuff, I just get really uncomfortable, right? And I was like, why does this not bug me at all? And I saw the third one, and A, I think it's maybe the best work of Keanu's entire career. He is phenomenal.

I think... It is crazy how natural he is in it. Yes. I mean, I think he can be a very natural performer, but you're almost like, it's the most heightened ridiculous movie, and he's so not heightened. And especially versus the other two,

this is so much a survival movie, where he just is in perpetual motion. Yeah, yeah. And you're watching these scenes that are choreographed so well with minimal cuts. Did you see week three? No. It's so good. Hey, look, it's another thing I want to do on the Patreon. Yeah.

And that's a quick three to do. I'm so excited to not have to deal with a fucking 22-movie-long franchise. deal with a fucking 22 movie long franchise. But the thing, not to spoil it for people, but there's the scene in the movie in which he has to explain why he wants to stay alive. And it's like the question you're starting to ask of this franchise. You're like, why are you putting yourself through this?

Right. Why not just die? You know, this is so difficult for him to keep up. And it's never going to get easy for him as long as these movies do well. It's only going to get more difficult for him. keep up. And it's never going to get easy for him as long as these movies do well. It's only going to get more difficult for him. And he makes this case in a scene that I think Keanu just kills that I think gets to the root of these movies, which is just like life is a fucking nightmare. The world is corrupt.

And the thing that they get into as they build out this universe is just like everyone's fucking in on it. You go to a hot dog stand. You go to a library. You go to a cab. People barely turn their heads to look at the insane violence you're committing. Everyone can be bought with some marker or a ticket or a code. It's the price of commerce. It's the price of capitalism.

It's the price of living in a human society where we all have to like turn blind eyes to things and make concessions in order to just try to survive and he comes up with this explanation of why he wants to remain alive that just kind of devastated me and part of it has to do with the state I'm in in my life and seeing this movie and re-watching the three after the tick got cancelled I'm questioning fucking everything

right about like except for blank check except for blank check but my thing of like what am I trying to do right don't leave me hanging Ben Ben David's holding up the hand for his high five yeah yes go on sorry I'm sorry but that I feel like I got my dream job and I'm frustrated with how it ended and I

don't know what I'm like aspiring to in my life anymore not to sound dire you know what I'm saying I'm sorry I only do that as a joke I know what you're talking about I'm very happy we have this podcast as a joke. I know what you're talking about. I'm very happy we have this podcast. It's a great podcast. It's very satisfying. Thankfully, I'm now fucking not

worried about running out of money because certainly I have no acting career to speak of at the moment. Very nice that I have a monthly income for the first time in my life. That is stable. It just hit me so hard where i was like this is a movie about that like that kind of unsuppressible survival instinct in humanity

despite everything around you telling you to give up how crushing life is and dealing with the misery of it and i think and this is where it all crystallized for me, that like, there's that Colbert interview that went really viral. The one where Colbert asks him the sort of, what happens to us when we die, Keanu Reeves? And I think what Colbert thought he was doing is, oh, Keanu's become this like Zen, religious figure. You know, sort of, whoa. Quietly profound.

And then he said something do you know what his answer was devastatingly profound he said he said keanu what happens to us when we die and keanu takes a second not long and then he goes i know that the ones who love us will miss us dearly it's so fucking amazing and you hear the audience gasp. Right, right, right. And Colbert is taken aback. Colbert's obviously like, oh, yeah, that's a wonderful thing to say. He goes like, John Wick chapter three in theaters this year. Like, it's the end of the segment. Because you know that, and also anyone who knows Colbert knows that he's a pretty spiritual and kind of philosophical guy who thinks about these things in a non, in a sincere way.

Right. But he's trying, I think, set up a more, like, you know, talk show-y, jokey moment. And then Keanu hit him with the left. Like, not even in a mean way. Here's my big thing, and I don't want to get too dark about it. Oh boy, here we go. But,

Keanu, at the peak, right? Post-Matrix sequels, when he's made more money than any actor's ever made on a movie. This crazy deal. He's, like, brought himself back from irrelevance for the third time. His third of, like, four career comebacks, right? Yes, yes. Where he proved everyone wrong.

He has his—fiancé has a stillborn baby and dies in a car accident six months later. And he experiences this type of loss that none of us can fucking comprehend. Right? This like horrible thing in this position in the world

where he's like, you've made it, you're Keanu Reeves, you have a billion dollars, you're a massive movie star and he just like seems to be a guy who has his priorities in check

and is like, that doesn't really matter. I like my motorcycles but I'm never gonna fucking get over this it's not a thing he really talks about and then shortly after that

his career bombs again and he very quickly goes back to being a joke and everyone had fucking written him so thoroughly off right and then you go like

47 Ronin final nail in the coffin like get the fuck out of here and it feels like okay I guess he's gonna like show up in the Neon Demon

and like the Bad Batch and do like small roles in indie films and make an interesting character. Yeah, and be this sort of cult object. Which he's doing great work in those movies. I was enjoying those performances. more where something is actually just sort of like like completely brought into existence by fan demand right and not by a preordained like we are shoving this down your throat right and the way in which the films have like multiplied and grown and like gained respect and all of that right that they're about a man who has lost everything and has nothing left to prove anymore

yeah like just you know so when you get to this point where, like, Keanu, like John Wick, is like, I am this man who has been doing this for decades, has honed this to a craft, am the best at knowing how to be me and do this weird thing I do. And I've lost everything and you can't fucking hurt me anymore. So all I want to do is just stay alive. And when he explains in this movie why he does it, I just broke and I was like, this is a fucking masterpiece.

This franchise is the best. I love all of this. This is the best performance I'll ever get. So that was just your profound connected moment. Yeah, and I think the action's great. I think Halle Berry's awesome in it. I love the world building stuff. I think the mythology shit in 2 gets a little sloppier and in 3 I like what they do. I like

all of it. I like all of it. It's a great franchise. I gotta rewatch them all though. Once Wix is digitally available which it may already be. I got the Steelbook pre-order. Okay so that's number one at the box office. Number two is

Pokemon Detective Pikachu. Number four is a movie about a dog going on a journey. Oh, let me guess. Is it A Dog's Way Home? It's A Dog's Journey. Yeah. That's the Quaid? That's the Quaid.

That's the one that's the proper sequel to A Dog's Message or Comforter. What was the original? A Dog's Purpose. Dog's Purpose, that's Right. Dog's Purpose. That's right. Those were books.

Dog's Purpose was a book. And from the perspective of the dog, what is it like? He keeps getting reincarnated as different dogs. That's insane. What is the text like?

Garbage. Eat it. Yum, yum, yum. Wait a second. Berry bone. You should write Don't put this on the podcast. You could sell this.

That's copyrighted trademark Ben Hosley 2019. Are you kidding? Dogs Purpose did so well that they made a direct sequel. Yeah, okay, okay. They adapted one of the author's other books, and there's that fucking Art of Racing in the Rain thing. Any movie in which a dog has an interior monologue. But if Ben released a book called Dogs by Ben Hosley,

and it was just like eat garbage. Walk over there. Lick, lick, lick. What's this? A bone hundred million copies pre-ordered. What do you think?

Also immediately pre-publication get the rights option by Disney plus. Exactly. Disney plus plus. Yeah. Didn't invent a new channel just for it. There's a Ben tier. Number five is one of those movies that just like...

Already doesn't exist? Exactly. Like didn't exist the second it was released. Like as people watched it, the minute before in the movie was already gone. I don't want you to give me

anything else because I think I might know what it is. The Hustle? The Hustle. Yeah. Dude, The Hustle. I mean, I don't't know I didn't see it America didn't do the hustle

no it was one of those movies that was like shot you know during like the Carter administration even though somehow Anne Hathaway's in it right yeah yes

and it was like it was one of those things where like we've remade Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with women but we're not really gonna talk about that in their advertising we'll just sort of hint at it right no one got

that it was a proper remake it's like a full even though the tagline is they're giving Dirty Rotten Men a run for their money but it's still like okay and then it's like so what's the what's the premise Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilson they hustle they gotta get over on all these guys they gotta get over it's gotta

be the best we've ever done. Right. Do you know what, I mean, originally the film was gonna be titled Dirty Rotten Scoundrels and then they were like, we're changing the name.

Before they changed it to Hustle, they landed on what was the correct title, which I can't believe they moved past. Right, which was Lady Crimes.

No, do you wanna know what it was? What was it? Because it's actually a good title for this movie. Yes,

ladies do crimes now. Nasty Women. Oh, well, there you go. That's what they should have fucking called that movie. Okay, but that's almost a good title for this movie. Yes, ladies do crimes now. Nasty Women. Oh, well, there you go. That's what they should have fucking called that movie. Okay, but that's almost a good title.

Give it to a good movie. Yeah. I assume it's bad. I'm going to remake the Hustle. Maybe it's like The House and everyone will watch it and be like Masterpiece. I'm going to remake the Hustle

and call it Nasty Women. Well, they're doing, is it Hustlers? Yes, that's another thing right with jay that's gonna be in toronto like that looks pretty fun yeah um laureen scafari the director of uh richard lawson's number one film uh the meddler have you seen that movie the meddler yeah yeah the meddler's great the problem with the meddler is that uh it's like um it's close to home like genuine with your mom yeah yeah like

i watch it not exactly but i was like wow like this is kind of and i was expecting something winsome and i was like hmm this is kind of brutal oh yeah like which is what is good about it right it's not a winsome movie yeah have you done the trolls experience yet no uh i'm waiting for richard to get me vip pass. That's pretty good. I don't know if you guys know this, but I know the creator of Trolls. He's been a guest on my podcast a couple times. Who owns Trolls? Like, what toy company?

Fuck. I mean, well, Hasbro does all the stuff for the DreamWorks movie. All right, so Hasbro's going to sue us. That was just a joke. Okay. I just wanted to make that joke. But now I'm wondering if Hasbro also has the rights to the DreamWorks movie. All right, so Hasbro's going to sue us. That was just a joke. Okay. I just wanted to make that joke. But now I'm wondering if Hasbro also has the rights to the original Troll Liner if they just have...

You know what I'm saying? If they produce... Because I want to say... It wasn't Gunned. I think this is the... Ben's just looking up the Strokes album covers. Maybe it was Gunned. I think this is the best...

This is the time to end our... The toy company Gunned. One of our best episodes ever. Might have been the one. I'm going to look up Troll Dolls. Maybe Gunned. Great. Go see The Farewell.

It's in theaters now. It's been expanding over the last month and should be pretty wide at this point. I think it's going to about 400 theaters this week and this episode's going to come out a couple weeks later. Really is a tremendous movie. Lulu's the best. I don't know what else to say.

I agree. I was very wrong. Get ready for Castle in the Sky next week with Emily Yoshida, Mother of Blankies. Mother of Blankies, who we have to say is going to Hollywood. Yeah, I know. She's going to Hollywood. She's literally going to Hollywood. So, I mean, we didn't know it at the time.

But that's, I mean, she'll be back. She will be back. But it used to be so easy. I know. And she's one of my great friends. And it's, it's sad to, to have her move.

No joke there. Just that. But you know, it's very exciting for her. She's got all this exciting stuff coming and she's doing great. We have our early friends on the show, but it's a different thing. You know,

when you're trying to, you have to like, Oh, they're coming. Okay. Let's, uh, you know, find time. Who needs to be able to just decide to add in a Verhoeven bonus,

slip it over to EO, record it the next day, you know? Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. You know, melancholy. Like the farewell. Melancholia. Thank you all for listening. Yeah. Please go see the farewell yeah no

I just said that but I like I want to restate it yeah seriously and purely from a level of it's a really fucking great movie and I can't believe she did her podcast

exactly we are not friends with her no I mean we follow each other on Twitter that's the only connection we had and you were like wait maybe we can book people

on our show I was like I don't know who are doing promo things she wants to promote her film you're like she's going on things yeah yeah I just it's crazy it's crazy she was on the show who are doing promo things. She wants to promote her film. You're like, she's going on things. Yeah. Yeah. I just,

it's crazy. It's crazy she was on the show. I agree. So next week, of course, Emily Yoshida, Mother Blankies, Castle in the Sky,

I'm repeating myself, thanks to you. Lulu, not into my pitches so much. Yeah, that's the other reason we were short on time

is that Ben spent an hour throwing eggs at her. He was, I said, picture this in the dark. So much. Yeah, that's the other reason we were short on time is that Ben spent an hour. Keep throwing eggs at her. He was. I said picture this in the dark. He's turning the lights on and off. He had a PowerPoint he made her watch. That was his slate he announced phase one.

Oh, boy. Thank you all for listening. Yes. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Andrew Goodall for our social media. Lane Montgomery for our theme song. Pat Rounds and Joe Bone for our artwork. Go to blankies.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit.

And TeePublic for some real nerdy shirts. I was trying something new. I knew what I was doing. I was in control. I liked it. I was in control, Dave. Yeah. And as always. I hate to see you out. Yeah. And as always... I hate to see out of Control.

And as al... It's a great line. Drop off a hacker if you're doing a little rock and roll. And as always, Trolls was created and owned by the damn company, which then the full license was bought outright by DreamWorks, who now license it to Hasbro. From Richard Lundson.

They were called damn dolls? They were called damn dolls. Like, damn dolls!