Blank Check with Griffin & David - O Brother, Where Art Thou? with Emily St. James

Episode Date: August 31, 2025

Those Soggy Bottom Boys really know how to carry a tune! Emily St. James joins us to talk about O Brother, Where Art Thou?, a wonderful film whose reputation was ultimately eclipsed by its octuple-Platinum soundtrack of “old timey” bops. When we’re on track, we’re talking peak Clooney, digital color correction, T. Bone Burnett, and the history of Southern politics. When we’re off track in this episode? Expect some discussion around Linkin Park’s Hybrid Theory and the Emmy-winning run of The Practice. “Blank Check Theme (Sirens version)” Performed by:Amy Irving Olivia Ellen Lloyd Maggie Feldman Recorded and Produced by Gabe BarretoMixed by Alan Smithee Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your  pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blank Check with Griffin and Dave Blank Check with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or what to expect, but the name of the show is Blank Check. only podcast you got. I'm the damn Potter Familius. But you ain't bonafide. Damn. Here's the thing I found. Poder Familius. Potter Familius.

But I did podcast first and then Potter Familius. I don't want. Fuck. God damn it. I'm a podcast and, man. I don't know. Here's a thought I had while watching this movie last night. I don't want FOP. God damn it. The way he says FOP is the best line reading of one million years of human history.

This movie has... I won't. I won't back down from this. So many incredible lines of dialogue perfectly delivered, transcendently delivered, right? People just fucking identifying the slightly off-kilter way to throw it out without overselling the dialogue. And my big thought while watching this and all these lines coming up is, I am so happy that somehow this movie has not gotten into the Big Lebowski territory of. I have to hear these lines all the time. Yeah.

Every time I put it on, it's a pleasure to hear these lines again. Yeah. I always, like, have a weird, when I start, I know I like this movie. But when I started, I'm like, this is going to be the time when I get off it. It's just not going to work for me anymore. And every time I'm like, oh, right, this hasn't been so thoroughly seated into the culture that I, like, low-key resented. It's nice. It's a really nice feeling.

And I'm not saying it's something that, like, works against Big Lewowski, but it is pleasant that every time you revisit this movie. is actually a revisit. You candy buttered car thief and so-and-so's a curse your name is one of my favorite undersung line. There's so many good ones. In O Brother, we're out there. I've seen this movie like 40 times, so I am not, like, it is not a new thing for every time I'm like, oh yeah, right, I know every line of this movie.

Like, I owned it on DVD, so I just watched it too much. Hey, same, but I'm just saying, you're not hearing it on the streets. Yeah. It's not being meme to death. streets yeah you know i don't want fop god damn it i mean i was just in sioux falls south dakota okay we're just shouting things at each other from this movie it's it's uh it's all your coastal elitism showing right now it is it is fascinating that the movie has still kind of retained that status and even perhaps like receded a little in the coens canon considering

that its soundtrack was one of the most culturally impactful things of its decade and beyond it being that big was also just like one of the most bizarre things to ever happen in American pop culture. We were talking about it. It defeated outcast Stanconia for album of year. Maybe it was the wrong call. Really? Ben, that's crazy. You want me to pull it up? I'm going to pull up the all the

nominees that year. It cannot be overstated how big the soundtrack was. And I cannot think of another example of a soundtrack being that disproportionately bigger than the movie it spawned. I think there are cases of like Yeah. I mean, because things like Saturday Night Live, it's like the movie was huge. I mean, this movie was Big Fever.

Well, it was so live, though. Yeah. The movie was huge. Rightman? Remember? I'll tell you what was huge. That movie's kind of a comedic thriller. Let him finish.

The clock is our Darth Vader. Who else is huge? Milton Burles cock. There we go. In that movie. Here are the five nominees for album of the year of the year 2002. So we're talking two full years after the movie came out. Because the movie comes out, limited release.

Late 2000. thousand goes wide beginning of o one win soundtrack of the year like march oh two this not soundtrack of the year album of the year i'm sorry but that's march oh brother where art thou sound track now the other nominees okay given to me it's dankonia by outcast a pretty big album kind of their artistic peak yeah and still fucking holds up yeah i think speakerbox the love below is great but it's two albums that are not really linked so it's like no longer you know how to collaborate Sanconi is the last proper Outcast album. And when they won for

Speakerbox Love Blow, there was a real sense of Oh, this is for the other albums. Right, exactly. This is, which I think the Grammys are constantly guilty of. No, Idle Wild is actually It doesn't matter. Not very good. I mean, there's some, there's some. And what's their other aliens?

Atleons, but that's before. But that one's also a banger. Look, all their albums are good. Right. Yeah. They're good. Well, but Stokonia was, again. Funky Thresh. It is a hundred 100% of there. And it's their cultural,

you know, Ms. Jackson is sort of like, that's when the most, anyway. It's the weirdness of Hayah being so humongous, but also being like, these guys are breaking up.

Yeah. Right. That's, and this is an Andreye song. Right. Not a big boy song. Love and theft by Bob Dylan underrated,

lovely late Dylan album, you know, Tweedl-D and Tweedledum. Sure. Shall I go on? Yeah. An album that I bet Ben loves. You choose all that you can't leave behind.

Ben. Which even I, Got to get yourself together. It's not a YouTube album. I don't know why I'm singing it like Dave Matthews. Look, I don't actually like that album that much. Everyone thought that was going to win, though, because that was the post-9-11 Grammys.

It was a gigantic hit. Perfect day in elevation. Beautiful day. I'm sorry. Beautiful day, elevation. And it has the one that everyone listened to after 9-11. Yeah. So, like, I can't get out of walk on those first four tracks.

Does it have the Games of New York song? No, it does not. Okay. That was not on an album except for like a best of. It does have. New York, which is one of U-2's worst songs by a country mile It is astonishing.

You got one, if you ever want to have a chuckle, Google the lyrics to New York by YouTube. But it was such a big I think that must have been the front run because it was such a big album. And it was kind of like U2's comeback. It was a, oh brother winning was a huge upset because, yeah. And then India Ari's acoustic soul was the fifth

which was a big deal at the time. Absolutely. But probably not a front run. Sure. But like, was oh brother the second best selling of that lineup oh i don't know that's my question i'm like i would be fascinated to hear see what the sales stats were for stankonia the u2 album and oh brother you two albums definitely in the lead but i like i think so too but i'm like did oh brother outsell stankonia it may have look i'm going to look it up this is a little harder because you know it's like you're talking years and not like grammy's seasons it was just so bizarre because

the album clearly caught on in a way that was completely independent of the movie like the movie came out people liked it it overperformed a little bit but didn't like fully crossover right right then the album started selling well and then the album became a thing yeah and then they do like concert tours with the album there's the concert documentary which i can't find anywhere anymore called Down from the Mountain And the thing is it I remember that though It was nice

It caught on We were talking about this Before we recorded It caught on with like young people It was like 20 somethings We're banging bluegrass And once again

The pitch is old-timey music Yeah I mean Like that's within the context Of the movie I like Set during the depression They're like

You guys know any old timey music I was watching a complete unknown And Alan Lomax Is a character in that It's like he's the fucking guy He was standing in Dillon's way. And I was like, why do I know Alan? It's because of this.

There's a whole bunch of songs from his collection on this album. So I have a brother split between 2001, 2002. In 2001, it was the ninth selling album of the year. It sold 3.4 million copies. And we all have it on CD. Yes. I had it on CD. People buying physical discs going to a store.

No streams? Yeah. I don't think iTunes existed yet. I don't think that launches. No, but I mean, Stephen Root was spinning those. discs a lot. And doing a lot of business. Yeah.

I remember seeing this movie in theaters and when that was happening, I turned to my mom and I went, is he having like a seizure? She's like, no, he just likes the song. And so certainly it is above any of the Grammy nominees I mentioned in both years. And in 2002, it sold another 2.7 million. Wow. So, you know. So it sold like 6 million copies in its first 18 months of movies.

I guess so. Yeah, Stanconi has only been certified quadruple platinum. so it's only sold 4 million. It's total, O'Brother's total. It's eight times platinum. It's sold 8.1 million copies in the United States as of October 2019. We haven't checked it in the last five years. Just above O'Brother, just to complete this little, because I love, I love a list.

Please. We love Liss. So you got, at number eight, you've got Creed's weathered. Oh, yeah. I'm not up on Creed, I will admit. I only know that has to be arms wide open, right? That has to be the album. it is uh come on

creets back it is not it's not it is not is that the follow-up i think it is yeah i guess so is this uh this is how you remind me yeah with our no that's nickel back yeah okay you must be so embarrassing right so is it uh if i go crazy then we'll you still call me superman i don't even know what that is that's three-door staff it's three I think is a lot of this music Not to pull this car Did not make it to Britain in the same way Creed absolutely didn't

Yeah Christian rock was not a thing in Britain But old time America A American opera album does make it to the UK Maybe a little bit I think this was pretty niche in Britain This whole thing was pretty But anyway about Creed We've got Destiny's Child Survivor

Okay that's a great album Elisha Key's songs in A minor her first album Very good Staines break the cycle which is reprehensibly bad so bad what's the single off that

oh you know how you remind me I know fuck what is you know it's been a while you know that

oh yeah I just remember that Scott Ackerman yeah you know his podcast they do that

joke anytime someone said been about Emily and then so they as a joke they're like

let's actually like listen to the whole album right and they go track by track

and it's so tough to listen that that fucking new metal stuff um

fourth Enya a day without rain. Now, this is later, Anya. But I was going to say... Lord of the Rings boosted, Eni. I think she got a fellowship bump. It's another post-9-11 thing. Yep. Yeah.

Great call, Emily. I guess. Even though it was released pre-9-11, I think the bump comes post. Because, yeah, we're all looking for solace. Yeah. And then the top three are, of course, the best three albums of 2001. Number three, N-Sink's Celebrity, which is fine. Number two, Shaggy's Hot Shot. Hey?

Which is the... It wasn't me come back. Oh, it's the follow-up? No, no. I'm saying, Like, it wasn't me was Shaggy's comeback, right? Like, it was like, Shaggy's returned. You thought Mr. Boombastic was a one-hit wonder. I didn't know he was gone. Yeah. You didn't know, you don't think Shaggy kind of slightly receded in the public memory?

This is the, it wasn't me, album. For like two years, the person who didn't personally know me before I transitioned, who had misgendered me the last time was Shaggy. What? And then I got missed. I was at a press conference and he couldn't see me. And he just was going off my voice. So he said, sir.

And I was like, and I was not offended because it was shaggy. I was like, well, that's a good last misgensure. You accused him of misgendering you, and he said it wasn't me. Yeah. He's got a kind of airtight alibi. This is the thing. By making himself he, it wasn't me, guy. He can slip out of any accusation.

And then some lady at an airport did. And I was like, well, that's it. It used to be shaggy in the dreamstead. Yeah. I don't mean, Mr. Wombast. He's so good. Shaggy? Love him.

You should sing more of his canon right now on Mike. Angel? That was one? My darling. Yeah, that sounds right. Number one, God bless him. I think I've talked to Ben about this. Lincoln Park's Hybrid Theory, their first album.

Kimmuggis. Which at the time I was so dismissive of. I think about this now. And I really think it was internalized homophobia. A little bit from me. A little bit from Simsy. Unpack this. Even though I was a woke boy.

Unpack this. I think that music is so sincere. I listen to it now and I'm like, this is special. Like, this is interesting. It's not 100% my thing. but it's so emotion. Man, in a tremendous amount of pain. Exactly.

Yeah. And I think at the time, I was a little too, like, too much, you know, not cool, not cool. You know, like, this is, like, too much emotion, too much feeling. But don't you think that was kind of... He's about to break. I know. Everything you say to him. But don't you think...

Takes him one step closer to the edge. Don't you think that was kind of... And he is crawling in his skin. He's crawling in his skin. That song is pretty kind. That song rules. Don't you think that that was kind of the magic that blew up the record charts. A hundred percent, but that was all...

this combination of like externally this guy's really tough and hardcore and his voice is so extreme and the songs are aggressive and then there's like such a sensitivity in the center of them that that that clash kind of was able to reach across the aisle there's so many albums in that top 10 that are like boys being sincere over like electric guitars yeah that emerged right as I'm a teenage like 15 years old and I'm like a little too cool even though I wasn't the coolest kid in school funky thrash But I consider myself too cool. For essentially emo music. And so much of it, like, Creed seems like it's sung by a church praise band. Right. And you're like, it's actually just kind of Christian adjacent. And then it also feels like this is on the brink of splintering off into Screamo, which is then, like, not even pretending to be hardcore is just, like, emotions first and foremost.

Like, there's a bifurcation that I think happens. Well, somebody was a lot of that is underground music. Yes. And I think a lot of people, that was the thing that they hated about. Lincoln Park is that they were this like homogenized you know really they're bringing it mainstream right but that always happens and then the underground stuff

becomes overground very quickly yeah it's like we talk about how like Spider-Man 2 the whole fucking album is screamo shit sure and you're like you can't get more mainstream than this the list you just read off though makes it all the more insane that the O Brother soundtrack explored that heart doesn't really fit into what I just read out into anything it would be weird if that soundtrack

went viral today? It does presage screamo though. It's very, you know. The Obrother's screamo. Yobbling? All the way. Yeah. I am a man of Carson Sorrel.

Pretty emo. If you say that, that's emo. I'm a man of constant sorrow? That was the profound point I was just making. That was the profound point I was just making. Now, I have a couple other threads I want to tie off. Okay, one. Griff wasn't here for this, but we were discussing

Taylor Sheridan Steakhouse, of course. Oh, sure. I'm sure you're very aware of it. Four, six. which is in Las Vegas at the win. Emily, your picture is framed on the wall. Yes, it is. Yeah.

Yeah, Taylor and I, yeah. Looked up the old menu. Oh, sure. You know, and they've got your regular steaks, porterhouses, fillet mignon. I would imagine. Maybe you want a cornish head if you're, you know, feeling saucy. But, and this is just to speak to Ben and his experience of expensive stakes, they do have a $1,000 steak. Now, here's the thing.

I'm lying. It's $9.99. on the nugget. Oh, good. $9.99. No, no cents. No, no, 90 cents. What?

999. I think it's like 666, 6, 6.6, but... Okay, so you get to keep a nickel in 4-10s. What I appreciate, and that is ridiculous. Who would buy that? I mean, I don't know. I'm sure there's people out there who just are real big steakheads. At least the price is listed.

That's true. It is listed right here. It's Japanese purebred, freedom, Wagyu, Tomahawk, 48-ounce. steak with beef tallow reclette cheese popover interesting that does sound good that kind of sounds like the in the you know if this is the bambino which is an item we've discussed in the past is the popover like the check is it you're stepping on my joke i was going to say that the steak also comes with a signed check by babe ruth a long pour and a victrola and um a bore delays sauce which is sort of like a whiny sauce anyway so and also it's grilled by hand by kevin costner yeah they get him in there

That's the one thing he'll still do for Taylor Sheridan. I love staying. It'd be so funny if Costner fucked it up just to mess with Sheridan, like he overcooks it. Did you watch the final season? Of course you didn't watch the final season. They kill Kevin Costner like seven times. It's just showing his death over and over. And then there are like six episodes devoted to how well Taylor Sheridan Fox.

And how well he rides a horse and he dates Bella Hadid. Yeah. Oh. You could tell me anything happened on Yellowstone. I'd be like, all right. There's a character played by him who does. decides to buy the ranch after Kossner dies, and every character is like,

God, he's so much better than Kevin Kossar. Played by Taylor Sherrard. Played by Taylor Sherrod. And Belahadette is his girlfriend and constantly talks about how good he is in bed. Makes allusions to. Five minute sequences of him doing trick riding on a horse. I've seen these supercuts.

But there's a, right, he's trick riding on a horse and then one of the other female characters goes like, man, he rides that horse well. And Belahadid goes like, you don't even know. I'm sorry, I'm looking up the... Okay, other loops to close. It's Ben's birthday. It's Ben's birthday.

Happy birthday, Ben. Thank you. 25 years young. Yep. Decad of dreams. Oh, yeah. Griff walks in here, Emily and I, and we haven't introduced Emily, of course. We haven't introduced the podcast.

No. We've talked about the music scene of 2001 a lot. At least, at least that's somewhat relevant. Absolutely, deeply relevant. We are discussing the film Transamerica and how the director of that film never made another movie again. Yeah, just a weird one. And then so you, of course, immediately summoned the specter of Mr. Corky Romano. We watched Corky Romano just this last weekend, looked up the man who directed it, Rob Pritt, who had zero credits on IMDB previous to this film in any position, and then since then has only made two short films in 2012.

And I said, who is this guy? Where did he come from? And so I googled him, and I found a little interview with him. Mostly works in advertising, which I guess is not too surprising. You know, they're asking him questions, like, oh, what was your first advertising project? do you guys want some cookies yes that line reading killed if you were to change professions what would you choose to do here's rob pritt's answer griffin okay competition barbecue smoker i cook a killer 15 hours slow smoked pork shoulder that i think would do well in a cookoff it is on print so if you ever want to roll up your sleeves with the prittster yeah enter the pritt

not the pit no the print master he's the printmaster if you want to try and you want to try his pork shoulder, you should head on over to Taylor Sheridan Steakhouse in Las Vegas. What if Pritz work in there? Yeah, he's behind the smoker. Yeah. And I heard this that he tried to get a job on the pit. And they were like, your name's Pritz. It's too confusing. It's too confusing. So I think that's

all of the loops close. Thank you all for listening. Remember to rate review and subscribe. No, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. That's a classic throwback, David. I got distracted by something on his year. I sure did get distracted by a very, very annoying question. Vintage. It's a podcast about filmographies.

Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. Nice cough. Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce baby. And sometimes their album goes quintuple platinum? Yeah, no, eight. So octuple?

Octopal platinum. This is a mini-series of a series of. on the films of the Coen brothers. It is called Pod Country for Old Cass. Probably. I think that's right. I couldn't tell you.

It's really slipping out of my brain every time. Not just this, but most things. Today we were talking about O Brother, Brother, where art, though, which is weirdly their, like, comeback film from the failure of Big Lobowski at the time, what is perceived as an absolute wipeout, but also is more known as the film that spawned one of the biggest albums of the two.

So you think they get a cut of that soundtrack? Here's the thing I... Oh, I'm sure... Well, you know what? Here's a thing I know. What I know is that it's still... George Clooney talks about this in interviews. Tim Blake Nelson made more on this movie than any other...

He actually sings on it. He's the only one who sings. Right. Only on the second song. Interesting. He doesn't sing on Man of Consensarro. But he also is in the jailhouse now. That's when he sings.

That's actually his voice. Is it not his voice doing backup on a brother? It is not. it is not interesting yes i will also share that a lot of this music is not copyright yeah because it's um you know traditional it's all traditional music so i do think that there is definitely potential for like a unique kind of like financial share also like were they producers i don't think they were i don't see them i don't see their name on there that's another thing that makes this film bizarre is like they work with carter ber roll on every single movie he is such

defining part of their film language. She gets some additional music credit on this. But this is really like T-Bone Burnett. And this movie makes T-Bone Burnett a household name. It's just, it's too bad that Joel Cohn doesn't get like an envelope from the Spotify Corporation every month with like two dimes taped to an index card. You want to hear that somehow this was their like Star Wars deal. I'm surprised this hasn't become a Broadway musical.

This feels like a natural. It's a great call. This is why we bring you in But maybe again That's a Cohen's roadblock Where they're like What? No, I don't want to do that shit But on the other hand

They've always been like I don't know Go ahead make your Fargo show Who gives a shit That's true Right? Like Taturo's like I want to do a Jesus movie And they're like fine

Well that one they're friends with the guy With the Fargo show they kind of It seems like their reaction is more like Huh And it was like well we're gonna do it Because we can I think their attitude is very much Like we don't block stuff

Because it's not fucking changing The original movie Yeah they're definitely You're right They had also sold off the Fargo TV adaptation rights a long time ago and then they bounced around so i wonder if they have more creative control over this but they should make it a musical they should they should no that's really smart and that's the kind of insight you only get from our returning for the seventh eighth time

guest emily st james i'll look it up i don't know uh hello emily from the podcast podcast like it's the 2000s yes from the new novel would work right around yellow jackets Emily St. James. Hello. Munich. Boom. Alice. Boom.

Lambs. Which, look, you hold, if you want to view it as a distinction, that is always the default answer I feel like David and I throw out a worst movie we've ever cut on the podcast. I love, I don't listen to that episode because it's under my old name, but I love that episode because it's just tangents. It's just us trying not to talk about the Futter Wacketka. Yeah, and it's not exactly the most, you know, it's not a fucking. No, I think it's a good.

gold narrative over here. I think it's a good episode. Yeah, a great episode. Terrible movie. Lambs. Silence up, not Lions 4. No. We have yet to do Lions for Lambs. Carol. Not Todd James. Yeah, you're describing these titles

and weird words. A thing. The. Stoker. Yeah. Six. Postman. Seven. So this is the eighth. Eighth. My first time I did this My first time I did this show

just to, because we're reminiscing this year. Yeah, it's been a decade of dreams. I didn't know Ben existed. And I was just sitting there listening to you to talk and this voice popped in. Oh, sure. And I was like, who is this man with long, flowing blonde hair? Like, a beautiful. Adonis.

Atona's voice. Yeah. I was like, who the, actually, I was like, who the fuck is that? Right. This was when we recorded in a closet that was so small that if we had a guest, Ben couldn't be in the room and listened on headphones from the, the room next door. The closet next door. The smaller closet. Yes.

Yes. And now it's your birthday. Whoever thought? Decade of dreams. Yeah. Hey, Griffin, David. Oh, wait. They're both asleep. And the new beds we just added to the studio. So I'll just have to be extra quiet.

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Every style, every home. Oh, they're dreaming. Oh, brother, where art them? An adaptation of Homer's The Odyssey Yes. By two guys who claim that they have never read it. Yes. I appreciate this.

I do this a lot. I adapt things and don't read them. Yeah. I'm just like, I know this from cultural osmosis. Like, I'm working on a book right now that is ostensibly a riff on little women. And I'm like, I didn't revisit little women. I have half memories of it.

And I'm, like, surprised how much of it, like, got in there. I think their point was like, we have seen so many adaptations and riffs on this that we understand what the basic beats are the actual text does matter

as much to us as the idea of right the beats the structure yeah it's a loose adaptation

yes everything about this movie is is odd it's odd that Big Lobowski was seen as such a failure that this needs to like

dig them out of the hole that it does that but is much more of like a commercial play than like respected by awards bodies

or I even feel like critics were a little like yeah it's cute I think critics were somewhat dismissive to the extent of a Cohen's movie where they you know they gave it a look but this was pretty quickly minor Coens and then the cultural

footprint arrived a little later in a way did get an Oscar nom for screenplay for adapted screenplay did it get cinematography yeah

that was a tough year for adapted so they like had they were filling that category. I did get, yeah. I remember Ebert was very dismissive of it. Ebert was down on this movie. Yeah. You know, he's probably just grumpy. I don't know. Now, David, you and I, I think, there were no hot chicks in it. That's definitely Ebert's hot chicks era. God bless him. I love Roger Ebert, but once the 2000s star, if there's like a hot chick in a movie, he's like, really was into angel eyes. And I'm like, oh, were you, Roger? Yeah, the Lopez run is incredible. He's like,

there's something about this movie. It's talking about Lopez as a star that really is, I'm really, really interested by her as an actor. Two stars play this well with the camera behind them. I think he put the cell in his top 10 movies in 2000 and was like this movie just has an interesting look and I'm like it does but also. The thing is right

he was sometimes ahead you know like the cell is good and was dismissed and it probably shouldn't have been but I wonder what Roger's real. That's why he liked the Garfield movie so much. Oh yeah? Yeah. Because the man was crazy for pussy. So O Brother Rart thou

was dismissed at the time. David we established on a previous episode you and I somewhat dismiss I think you know yeah yeah it was sort of like medium it's not like a hud sucker where people are actively a little awesome once again it was it was like a it was an on-base hit it was a hit oh it made money yeah uh you and i both think this is the first one we saw yeah in theaters yeah I think without a question I hadn't seen any of them I don't think I would have my question is right had I seen one of the earlier ones on video or something I hit this is absolutely the first one I saw in theaters I think I saw Fargo on video though. I owned both Fargo and this on DVD in the early days of DVD and I

watched them a lot and this was a good DVD. It had a lot of stuff because of the technical stuff. Which is also funny because the Blue Way sucks. Oh, does it? It's a bad transfer. They've clearly like never updated it and it feels like it has less features. A lot of bad discs. Yeah. Like there's the handful of criterions where like they've done a good job. But it's like as I was embarking on the, okay, what discs should I buy? I'm not like you where I like, you know, we'll buy like, you know, we'll buy like a Dutch DVD of, you know, I will never be a I only do that if there's no other option. Well, that's not, no, then I'm like, I rented that on iTunes.

I don't need to buy a desk. But with the Cohen's, a lot of the discs felt a little uninspiring. Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think a lot of that is a bunch of their films ended up at MGM, who for a long time really brought up the rear on physical media releases in the high-deaf era. But this one just looks like it's the DVD transfer put on a Blu-ray. I think it was a pretty early Blu-ray release.

I feel like it doesn't carry over all the special features. It's kind of like blocky and artifact-y, which is interesting for a movie that was so pioneering in its sort of like digital control of the image, that that has not been preserved well. Yeah, you watch, I watched it on Amazon Prime video. And it was, yeah, the real breakthrough of the images is not really clear anymore.

It doesn't look bad, but it is, is very clear that it is like a very old source being used on every stream platform on every digital retailer and on the disc it is like very overdue for like yeah like a criterion set with the fucking concert film on and all this other shit do they not want to do this stuff because it's kind of like then you're in true retirement mode like are they resistant to like okay let's dig through the back catalog i mean or do they not want to talk to each other right now i think like a lot of filmmakers of their era weirdly

they kind of don't give a shit unless it's criterion. It feels like if criterion gives the call they're like, we'll show up and we'll do this and they like do features and they oversaw the fucking transfers and everything for Lewin Davis and Miller's Crossing and

Blood Simple. Fargo Shout Factory has now and put out a good disc but like the first MGM Shot Factory disc or first MGM Fargo disc is so bad they had to reissue like an apology desk two years later i remember that i remember the apology desk and then the shout version is much better i feel like also if i'm the cohen brothers this is not at the top i love this movie but it's not at the top of my list to like

yeah i wonder what they make of this one but i'm also like if i'm them and i'm in like semi elder statesman mode i'm like maybe let's get criterion to put all of them out well sure i mean there's rights issues i'm sure but like buster scrugs is a movie that i watch where i'm like these are the guys who made her brother. Like, it's not gone. They're very linked movies, and even down to there's so much similar language. Obviously, some of that's time period. But they used to like if-in and the structure of the senses and obviously Tim Blake Nelson.

Yep. Yeah. This is a Cohen's mode. This is my favorite movie by them in a mode I don't always like, which I call effortful pastiche. Sure. Like HUD sucker, I just can't get on board with. I'm so sorry. That is certainly a Titanic example of that genre.

It is my favorite film, and yet as we, like, are looking forward to the idea of ranking their filmography at the end of the series, I'm like, I don't know if I can put that in the top ten. I love it because they have so many masterpieces, but who knows? Lady Killers is that. Yeah. Which is bad. Yeah. I think it's one of their weakest. It is their weakest, period.

What else is an effortful? I do. Like, I like, I like, total of cruelty count? I think intolerable cruelties, and I like Buster Scruggs, but I think it's also kind of in that. vein. Parts of it, sure are. In Tobor Cruelty is so fascinating to me because it's effortful pastiche but set in present day, which is I think why everyone bumped on it so hard at the time.

Great movie. That it was like, this is them failing to make a modern studio rom-com. And then I didn't get it until I cracked into like, oh, they are doing Sturgis. It just happens to be 2004. Yeah. But this is so structurally, culturally, a movie from... 2003. Is that far?

I think Hail Caesar's that. Like, I like a lot of these movies, but I, you know, what puts them over the top for me is when they have that layer of craft and then they add in the Fargo thing, the Rowan Davis thing, the no country thing of like, oh, this is about people, real people existing in a movie space. Those are top. These are the movies that I think make certain critics like Eberko, like, what are they doing? Are these movies just like making fun of dumb people and showing us how. good their tricks are. And they're just sort of obsessed with language. That was this whole thing of just like, right, this is them like playing with toys

and not engaging seriously. But my experience, seeing this movie in theaters, was just like, holy shit, why is everyone not acting like this is the greatest film ever made? Because I had just never seen their filmmaking style before. You're getting a shot of Cohen's. Totally. And you've been like a starving child in the wilderness and someone's giving you like, you know, a bottle of Gatorade.

was in rewatching this. I do think this was like a foundational building block what I like in filmmaking movie for me in the way I've talked about like Unbreakable being one of those and Rushmore being one of those all fucking Touchstone releases like just weird to think yeah that Disney had this is like a Touchstone Universal co-production or something overseas I think touchdown release it domestically yeah but the production companies are Touchstone and Universal so like I think Universal had more because Universal had the working title first of look um i love the touchstone fanfare touchstone it's your favorite you have you always shout it out like you know you don't even know that you're doing like you oh you love that it's good it's just

there's something about it that feels almost comforting yeah but it's great it is crazy to think that like disney bought miramax mirror max was their specialty art house division and yet touchstone was releasing movies like oh brother and rushmore that were like we're letting interesting directors make quote unquote studio comedies and they're like these are a little little weird, but we're putting them in 2000 theaters. Yeah. Well, I can tell you about that if I open the dossier, but is there anything else we need to discuss before I do that? I had that feeling of like, this is the most impeccably made movie I have perhaps

ever seen. Wow. I'm astounded by the craft and the performance in the language. And I was surrounded by grownups who were just sort of like, that's cute. And I was like, am I losing my fucking mind? How was this not winning best picture? And then I went back, started watching the earlier films, and saw every movie they made after this in theater. and I get it now, where when I watch this, I'm like, I understand how this could be dismissed, but it is kind of a perfect movie?

Yeah. It's kind of a, I think it runs out of, not that's too strong, but like, I think it saggs slightly in the middle. I don't love, I feel so sorry to say this to this man. He's a nice man. Michael Badalucho's performance enough. I like it alone. I like it.

It's fine. But on rewatch, I was watching it, I was like, this is fine. It's maybe the weakest section. It is... Babyface? The bankroper. Excuse me.

Not Babyface. His name is... I don't remember. George. George Nelson. It is a picker-esque. And like many picker-esks, it has... Some segments.

It has a gear that it gets in and never quite leaves. Which is fun. Like, they pick the exact right length for all of these episodes. You're going to be out of an episode quickly enough that if it's boring, you're kind of like, okay. It is the fascinating thing for me every time I re-watch it. is I remember segments being longer than they are. And I'm such a slut for picarious. You was a towed.

Do not seek the treasure. I think casting Terturo as like a southern, you know, yokel is one of their boldest gambits. These three faces on the poster. I mean, the faces are so good. And that's why they cast it. But, like, Terturo, it's like, this is probably one of the first Tarturo movies I see. Yeah. And then like every later, I'm like, he's.

always playing like a racist pizza guy for either Spike Lee or Joe. I can't believe I'm turning this into a thread in this episode, but John Tertrero once seemed to have misgendered me, but he had actually misgendered Margaret Atwood. Wow. He said, excuse me, sir, to Margaret Atwood?

No, I was in, I was interviewing him and he was talk, it was like, we plot against America. And I was, you know, I had recently transitioned. I was interviewing him, and he used him, and I thought he was talking about me, but he was trying to remember who wrote the Handmaid's tale. And he was simply a guy who wrote that. He wrote

the Handmaids. No, she wrote the Handmaids. Yeah, he was like, oh, right, Margaret Atwood. So apologies to Margaret Atwood. That is wild. No, you're right. It is odd to cast Totoro in this way, despite how much the Coens love him. They're smart. They're smart. And also, the third person above the title on the poster in this movie is Tim Blake Nelson, who was functionally unknown, semi-retired from acting. And they nailed this so hard. And he's talked so much about the casting process and being like, why the fuck are you offering me this straight that he basically off this one performance never stops working again.

There has been no Tim Blake Nelson fallow period where you're like, that guy just kind of disappeared from screens for five years. I remember he's in Watchman. And that he's, that is like, I'm like, that's kind of like his O'Brother performance. It's such a different character. But this guy is like one foot out the door and acting and they're like, you're on the poster next to Clooney and they're just like, thank you for identifying a key element in the next 25 years of cinema and television.

This guy has ultimate utility. I think they also figured out a thing that can work about a movie like this that we've seen a lot more of now that movies are made on reduced budgets, which is you can have John Goodman come in for five days and do a, you can have Holly Hunter come in for five days and do a part. Part of the Pickerast magic, but then it's also nice when one of those segments is someone you've never seen before. Like, there's such a good balance of, like, really comfortable, sort of familiar stars, great character actors who you're kind of discovering. And then just, like, some people with great faces.

Like, the woman at the bank who calls him baby face is clearly just a woman they found out. Oh, she's such a good face. It's incredible. The guy who says he can't keep the fucking soggy bottom boy albums on the shelves. Yeah. Great face. Just some guy. I want to say something about Tim Blake Nelson.

I just feel like he's been operating in the shadows recently. You know, sort of pulling the strings. What is the joke here? It's like he's got a little tablet maybe, he's in like a base and if he taps the tablet, like he can make anything happen in the entire world. You think that he's quietly the leader? I think he's been

pulling the strings recently. That's all I'll say. Three times they tried to cast him as a Marvel character. Sure. I'm counting the two Hulk's as separate times because they were so split up in such different characterizations, right? Sure, right. And on paper, you're like, Tim Blake Nelson is the leader.

Fuck. Tim Blake Nelson is mole man. Incredible. They're bringing Tim Blake Nelson back as the leader. He's really going to do it this time. All three times fucking just mingled it. And it's not his fault. Yeah.

Yeah. So O'Brother We're Out, though, was a film that made by the Cohn brothers. And for the first decade of their career, according to JJ, they could basically just make whatever they wanted to make. Hudson Proxy took a little while. They have Suburicon, which, of course, they never make, but that's a script they had for a long time

and then George Clooney perfected it. It was waiting for its ideal form. But essentially the Coens were saying, like, in the 90s, like, we don't have any rejected scripts. Right. Like, we're not sitting on a ton of projects. For the first time, they now have stuff that's not getting off the ground.

As JJ would put it, their first case of the Attachies happens after Big Lobowski. So to the White Sea, which, of course, our friends, Jordan and Ray have covered very extensively. They're most famous Unrealized project, which is based on a James Dickey novel about what, a guy on the beach or something, who gives a show?

Hey, I love being, like, dismissive of this movie. It was going to be a Brad Pitt vehicle. Yes. Light on dialogue, brutal. I remember... So, such a hyped thing. This is, like, the period when Ain't it Cool News is, like, the biggest end. And, like, yeah, Drew McQueenie's like, this is the greatest screenplay I've ever read.

This single best screenplay of all time. I mean, it reads unbelievably. Right. And if you're reading it while thinking about the 10 Cohen Brothers movies you've already seen at that point, you're like, how is this thing not a fucking? Why didn't they make it cowards? I think, because this is also. Too white for them? Yeah.

Yep. Oscar's too white. They, I think it was another case where Pitt pulled it out at the last second. This is that big era for him of like the fountain into the white sea. They'd already had trouble finding. someone to give them money to make it because it was going to be expensive and like not an easy sell so yeah it's a little uh 1917 not in that it's a one shot but that it's just sort of like one guy surviving in semi real time uh but without dialogue and it's interesting they do this

because this is the comedy version of to the white see in a very strange way yeah yeah yeah in a certain way but i think yeah i think pit either properly dropped out or was like i took Troy, it's backburnered or whatever. I know intolerable is the thing that they make right when they thought to the White Sea was about to go, but they're obviously trying to get off the ground at this point. Now, some other stuff they get attached to, an adaptation of the Elmore Leonard novel, Cuba Libre,

which is set in Cuba in the 1890s before the Spanish American War. That would probably have been like a big movie. That doesn't happen. They also were interested in another Leonard novel called La Brava about a Secret Service agent. who gets mixed up with an aging movie star sounds kind of fun Of course famously

Ethan Cohen has a screenwriting credit on the film The Naked Man The Michael Rappaport movie Jay Todd Anderson Their longtime collaborator storyboard artist Have never seen It's like he becomes like a wrestler who is naked His wrestling costume is like an inside out body

It's the movie spin off of that Friends character that we never see Yeah the naked guy Yeah. Raffa of course was in Friends. Yep. Rain Jordan, uh,

uh, stand for it. Say it's like a fun. There you go. Extremely silly. Unserious. Right. And Ethan's sort of like,

look, that was J. Todd's thing, but I thought it was so like fun and silly and like, I have no sense of ownership over it. You know, it's the, it's the, it's the crime wave driveaway dolls in Ethan where sometimes if you go like,

do you want to make something that has zero prestige to it? I think he has a really good time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, Ethan also released a short story. collection called Gates of Eden, which I have read. Wow. I remember

being pretty good. Yeah. So they're doing stuff, but they start work on O'Brother in 1997. I also just want to call out. I don't know the exact timeline of this, but this is certainly all bubbling at this time. Gambit, which they write but don't direct. And Talibro Cruelty and Lady Killers, they're hired to write

and then end up directing. Like, this is the period in time where they're starting to take assignment work, at least to pay the bills. Yeah. They like periods. obviously, so O'Brothers sees them traveling to the 30s. They claim they did a little research and they didn't read The Odyssey. They're, you know, I find all of that hard to believe.

I do, too. There's so much in the soup of this movie that is based on history of, you know, the history of the time and the politics of the stuff. You know, whatever. I don't think they're just going to like, let's have a clan rally. I think they did more research on the era than on the Odyssey's, certainly. They claim that they started with like a three saps on. the run movie and then after a while they're like could this be like the odyssey you know like it's like sure which i get that in terms of like what's the ultimate pickeresque story i guess in a way

the degree to which it's a riffing on southern politics of the time with some degree of accuracy suggests they like at least read the 1997 equivalent of the wikipedia entry the world book encyclopedia and papio daniel's like very similar to a real guy isn't there a guy who's like name is five percent off of that yes and who had a flower based radio hours. And with seeing you are my sunshine. These aren't like, no, that's a different guy. Oh, okay.

But that's a different southern populist governor. This is what I'm saying. Like, they are, yeah, they're not just like, you know. Even the way the clan is used in the downfall of Stokes is similar to the way that, like, the clan would be a force and then someone would get outed as a member and people would be like, well, we don't talk about it. You're not allowed to actually be so publicly, you know. But can I say, what a good storytelling decision to just be like in a picker-esque movie, time. up all your loose threads by being like and by the way everyone across the movie who was antagonistic to us is a claim member we can just knock them all out in one go um they claim everyone claims that

the only person involved who actually at the odyssey was tim blake nelson who has a degree in classics from brown university yes uh his deputy if he definitely talked about this that they would come to him and be like how does this go in the real story um obviously the film is inspired by sullivan's travels the press and surges masterpiece in that movie Joel McCray is trying to make Oh Brother Where Art That, which is this like parody Of like a serious movie Have you ever seen Sullivan's Travels, Ben?

I have no. It's one of the greatest comedies of all time, but yes, it's about a successful Hollywood He's a screenwriter? Yeah. Yeah. Who makes very successful comedies but begs for the idea of prestige

And the idea that what he's making is frivolous It doesn't matter. Right. And the most important scene in Sullivan's Travels is when a bunch of prisoners are shown cartoons like, And it's like about how the power of art is not, you know, in, like, fake seriousness. And the prison scene watching the movies, you know, there's so many obvious references

to Sullivan's travel. But it's what I find so fascinating is in that movie, the movie he says he wants to make, that's his big serious issues movie, is, oh, brother, where art thou, which is a story of the downtrodden man. And they tell him, you don't know how to relate to this, you can't write this. So then he pretends to be a hobo in order to gain the experience, but then he gets kind of caught and he can't get out of the life. And he's stuck in it and he ends up in prison.

He watches these prisoners, watch cartoons. And he's like, oh, making people laugh has value. I don't need to make something that is self-serious. But this movie has the title of the fake self-serious movie and is having this very interesting kind of cake and eat at two thing where it's like, it's a comedy. But also it is actually engaged in the reality of the types of people in a silly way that he's attempting to make, oh, brother,

are that about, if that makes sense? It does, yeah. I think that part of the critical reaction to this movie was based in, oh, they're showing you their hand throughout. They're like, they're showing you all the references they're making. They're letting you know what they're doing in a way that I think actively turns people off maybe on a first watch sometimes. Don't you think there's also an interesting thing, though, of like the most film literate people, writing reviews dismissing, yeah, I get it. I know all the references. Right.

And you're like, you're holding it against them that you know the same stuff. It's a, it's, if I ever teach film criticism, don't think you're smarter, or don't care that you're smarter than a movie. And also, like, not to be an asshole, but like, fucking 90% of the people who are reading your reviews aren't going to be like, oh, I get it. George Clooney had made a little film, a little tiny film, as my daughter likes to say when she wants to watch one more blueie. A little tiny one, she'll say, as if like that, you know, had she, he made this little film called Batman Amper Sand Robin. Have you heard of it? I haven't seen it. And we covered it on her Patreon.

Well, that's right. And he'd been on ER for five years, and he claims he went to his accountant and said, like, how am I doing? The accountant was like, if you never work again, you will be fine. You've made money, sir. And George Clooney is one of those guys who I guess was not famous long enough that he's not like, I need endless money. Of course, then he does stumble into a tequila company and make a billion dollars. It is so funny, you always talk about when you interviewed him for Suburbanon. And he was like, the great thing is that now I've struck oil.

I truly, if I am doing something, I'm doing it because I want to do it. Right. But it was also like, the tequila company has freed me up or now I don't need to just work to pay the bills. And I'm like, I think you kind of been past that point. But I understand you've entered a new strata of wealthy. But I mean, the whole problem with that era of his where you're like, oh, that's great. You don't need to make money to make the bills. Is then the movies he makes.

I'm like, I think you need the bills weighing down on you a little bit, buddy. It's a decade of lazy boy filmmaking where I'm like, you're too comfortable. So, right after Batman and Robin. which is a critical and commercial failure. I don't know if you guys knew that. Do you like Batman or Robin? Not as much as I feel like I should. I feel like it's the kind of movie I should be like, yeah.

Because now everyone is like, Famine and Robin, Slate. Where do you say? Forever, though. I like Forever. See, I bump on Forever's fun and Robb is a lot, but that might just be which I saw. I just think Balchilmer's hot. That's literally what it is. It was.

Sure was. Well, in that film he's, yeah. So his next three films after Batman and Robin are three kings out of sight, and oh, brother, where art thou? Right? Now, there's some bad ones in there, but they're mostly, like, cameo. There's some other...

Those are his next three big projects. Soderberg, David O'Russell. But he was, you know, an exciting young filmmaker. Yeah. And it's a very good film. And Joel and Ethan Cohen. He talks about that in that era, like, post fucking accountant conversation,

he's like, I, I... If Batman and Robin is how to, like, do the conventional movie star thing and play to win, I, like, don't care about maintaining my quote. I'm going to like cut my quote in half. He said like I think I've been paid my full quote like four times in my entire career past Batman and Robin. I wonder what those are, you know. I think it's like Tomorrowland, probably Ocean's 13.

Yeah, come on. Give him the quote. I think Perfect Storm was whatever the quote was at the time. But that he's like, I'd rather take less up front and bet on the movie and have like a higher stake in the back end and be able to work by not saddling a movie with a 10, 15 million. $20 million salary on top of it, keeping the movies cost lower so that the return on investment is higher and the film can be stranger.

And when he leaves ER, which is around this time too, it feels like it's the one time that's a big star leaves a TV show and there's not like a lot of rancor. Everyone was just like, oh yeah, he's going to live. It's time for him to look out.

And like, he came back in the final season. Like he's, yeah. Well, more importantly, he comes back in season six, in my opinion, the greatest cameo in a TV show ever. Because nobody knew that was happening. that when Margulies leaves the show Spoiler alert for ER

He comes in, she's delivering She just leaves, she's like, I'm out of here She's pregnant with his child But you're like, you know, they're not getting Clooney back He's fucking, oh brother we're out now And then she just goes to that dock And there he is fishing on the dock It's so good.

Everyone lost their minds. But there is this kind of interesting Folkron point here, which is like One Fine Day, Peacemaker Batman and Robin is like sort of the obvious studio playbook for how to build the movie star career, right? It feels like he hits a bit of a wall. Batman and Robbins, like, the real crash.

And then he resets and out-of-sight fucking rules and is beloved and was the coolest movie. And everyone's like, Clooney's done it. He's convinced us he's a movie star, but that movie doesn't do well. No, it does, like, fine at best. Three Kings does all right. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a challenging movie.

Yeah. There was a feeling when this movie came out of, like, has Clue. he cracked it well you're forgetting perfect storm was a huge hit that's the other and that's a summer 2000 movie now that almost feels like him playing it a little bit safe he's got the overalls on he's got the big beer but he is good that movie is kind of underrated at this point people forget about perfect storm i love that the i'lllm doc gives it to it it's due i told you to watch that the what's it called uh you know decade of dreams what the hell is light and magic light and magic about just like how fucking hard it was to make water like in 2000 um

And then, right, this is O'Brother where everyone's like, he's, I mean, he's so good in this. He's so good. He wins the Golden Globe. And it's like, it's movie star shit. And his head is held high. He's not doing his usual tics. He's unlocking, like, new movie star moves. And then next year is Ocean's 11, which is kind of everyone just being like, you know, you're never a TV.

That's the full moment. That's the full moment. You are, George's 20. You have a franchise. Yes. Right. Right. You've made yourself now part of the Mount Rushmore of Hollywood.

Because that's also him, like, bazooking Brad Pitt off the screen. Right. God love Brad. But, like, everyone's coming out of that movie, Horny from George. I mean, that's what's incredible about that movie is that Brad Pitts, like, unlocks his thing by being, like, I don't have to shoulder the weight of being the guy at the center, which makes him interesting for the first time, kind of helps him crack his movie star persona. And then Clooney is like, I'm so ready to be the guy at the center.

The thing about this movie figures out about Clooney is that, and out of sight to some extent, is that his movie star persona increasingly is, like, I'm one of the most handsome men who's ever lived. but also I can be like whatever persona I'm playing like you would not expect me to be this handsome And he can he can subvert the wattage Like what is incredible about this character

And this performance is that he has the confidence Of I am George Clooney I am Danny Ocean and he's an idiot Like you talking about how bizarre But brilliant it was to cast Tuturo as this yokel At some point late in the rewatch last night I was like, is this movie

they're sort of sideways Three Stooges thing? Sure. But they're changing the power structure versus the, um, the, the characteristics. Because like,

you know, the Three Stooges is like the intellectual, the angry, emasculated leader and the idiot, right? And this is like, Clooney is kind of the curly, but has taken on the leadership role. Tutro is the Moe and is even angrier because he's not leading the group.

But he's almost styled like Mo and, Yeah, for sure. And, like, Tatoro is so funny in this because anytime they cut to him, you're just like, he's so mad. He looks so furious all the time. And then, like, Tim Blake Nelson is a weird version of a curly where he just looks agog. But Clooney nails so hard playing this sort of confusion of he can't quite get his head around what's going on, but he's so committed to his idea of, I got the brains, I'm leading this operation, that he has to adjust on the fly really fast, which is always fun to watch him figure out.

It's also so hard to play just smart enough to think you're smarter than you are and actually be a little bit blank. He's not stupid. He's kind of stupid. And the Coins used to talk about their idiot trilogy with this intolerable cruelty and I guess Burn after reading, although Hale Caesar was always right, like their promised third entry. But he's not totally stupid. He's got the gift of the gab.

But anytime he uses the gift of the gab, I feel like everyone's just kind of waiting for him to stop talking. Like, you never really see him charm that many people into what he wants. I also love that the character is overwritten, that he keeps using these $100 words in a way where people actually don't understand what he's saying. His speech is so circular

and, like, flowery and bizarre, that it's combined with the speed at which he's delivering it, he's not actually successfully connecting and communicating things. things to other people. Yeah, he's trying to, like, reconnect with his ex-wife and just, like, unable to be sincere for a second. He's just, like, trying to, like, establish his claim in a weird way.

But, like, also in a charming way, it's fascinating. You can just see why he shows up on set and they just fucking fall in love with this guy. And are, like, we can write for him forever. This is our favorite type of character. And no one is better at playing this than him. My hair. Every time he wakes up. the movie.

Yeah. My error. It's so funny. Can I say about his hotness? Yeah. And how it stands out in a period piece. It made me have this thought of normally you see like an old Degera type, those fuckers are busted.

Yeah. And they've been, you know, for a Deggera, you have to sit there for an hour. Totally. They just got out of the minds. You know? But it made me think like there were smoke shows walking around in those days. In a weird way, I almost. think this is the hottest cluny's ever been in a movie well he looks so good it's this era it's the out of sight

three kings he's he's piquetness just just actually in the biology of his life yes um but he's also just so charming in this while also being kind of unsavory yeah it's a really well calibrated performance he as he said he basically was just like yes you know like he he didn't even read the script um he was just like, I know what you guys do, and I want to do it. He was born in Kentucky, as he will bring up a lot if you interview him, lived in Ohio for some of his life, but he did go, basically, you know, go back to Kentucky and went to Northern Kentucky University. He gave the script to his uncle Jack.

It's the best story. It's such a great story, who I guess is more of a died-in-the-wool Kentuckian. Right. He was like, I want to get the dialect right. Can I send you the script and can you use a tape recorder and do all my dialogue so I can study your dialogue? Because the co-ins are like, look, the character's kind of a-hounder. we want you to have like a thick accent yeah um so jack sends back the script written you know like

read out into a tape recorder says well george i don't think people talk like that um like which is fair she's probably reading the script being like what the fuck is this uh and he threw the script away and was just using the tape recorder and the coens are like why don't you say hell and damn when you're doing your lines and he realized that his his baptist uncle jack had excluded the hells and damn when dictating the script into the tape recorder. Yes. He rewrote the Cohn brothers. That's,

that's Klooney's favorite thing to say. But also, that's what he meant by. I don't think us people talk like that. I don't think his editorialization was we wouldn't take the Lord's name in vain. There would be no oaths. Right. Tim Blake Nelson, I mean, he's definitely a guy, but I don't think he's ever been in like a big thing, like had a big role. No, he popped up in little things.

I mean, he was in fucking, this is my life as his first screen credit. He had done some comedy. He was on that fucking Fox sketch show with Jennifer Aniston and Julie Brown. Was that called The Edge? I think so, yeah. Sounds good. It was like a, you know, a mad TV in living color also ran thing. I think you're talking about the unnaturals.

Is that what it's called? No, it's that that's the ABC one. Yeah. Okay. That was the Jeremy Renner show. That's Noah Hawley of Fargo. No, no, not that. That was way, no.

I'm going to find this. Yeah, please. But he, yeah, he was, he was a fucking, hmm, this is looking like it was he a natural. You're Chabon Fallon. Paul Fee. Yeah. Okay, but then I think Jennifer Aniston shows the edge and I was confusing them. Oh, he was also on, well, he's only on one episode of House of Buggin, which was,

Legazamo's answer to in living color. But yeah, he's like, he's popping up and stuff. he's got a larger role in heavyweights but he was a classics major who then went to Juilliard but was also writing his own stuff and at a certain point I think he started to shift to like

I do character actor parts to pay the bills what I really want to do is make my films I'm a filmmaker first and foremost right because he makes O the year after this but remember had been shot much earlier

and pushed back because of Columbine I think O was in the can and supposed to come out 99 and then doesn't come out until two years later. He becomes, he and his wife become friends with Joel and Fran through mutual friends and they have dinners together. Right. And it's mostly like sharing notes as filmmakers and his acting career has very much like throttled down in his own internal priority. And then as he puts it, Ethan, Joel at dinner one night was like, we wrote a part for you. Would you mind reading? First send

him the script being like, I need your advice on this. Yeah. Based on the Odyssey and then they're like, we want you to play Del Mar. It's a straight off. They never auditioned him. Nope. It's the third lead. He starts six weeks after rapping O. Yeah. And he,

so he was doing... This is a mistake. You shouldn't have me do this. He was doing post production on set. They let him... Insane. Yeah. And, uh,

you know, Tim, like, no, he's great. He's so fucking funny in this movie. He's so fucking funny. But it, like, it unlocks him in a way. It is that thing where he's like,

he is so thoroughly trained as an actor. His WTF episodes It's incredible. Sure. And you're just like, oh, it's easy to look at him. And I think they're seeing him as like the era parent to like fucking snits in the Buster Keaton movies. Or the one guy I always forget the name of who's got the great face in the fucking Preston Sturgis. Like this.

Demerist? No, the one who's sort of like owl-like and kind of pencil-backed. Look, what's important is he just knows how to do all this. He's like perfect of dialects and physical comedy and singing and dancing in every. everything. John Toturo, they told him you got to shave your head because they say when we do a movie with John, he always starts with the hair, so we figured we'd stitch him up

on that one. That's fine. And then they basically show him a bunch of pictures of guys with bad teeth and are like, you're going to have bad teeth. So again, I think offer. Like, no auditions for these parts. He's doing a lot of jaw work, too. Yes. You know, who else did? No, forget it. What were you going to say? I was going to make a

jawa joke, but I couldn't really figure out the way in. I love those guys. They're great. Hey, this episode is brought to you by Lurker, the feature debut from Alex Russell, right and producer, on The Bear and Beef. Those are two separate shows. But when you say it like that, it sounds like it's one show called The Bear and Beef, which could be interesting, but it doesn't exist, and that's not what this is. This is his new movie that stars Theodore Pellora from Boas Afraid and Archie Matawake from Saltburn.

And here's the pitch, here's the quick log line. 20-something L.A. retail clerk and loner Matthew encounters a rising pop star named Oliver. He takes the opportunity to edge his way into the in crowd, but staying there isn't easy. It's a paranoid, parisocial thriller made for the moment. And I don't know if podcast listeners can relate. I don't know if you out there subscribe to blank check can find an entry point into the story of someone who listens to a guy way too much and goes crazy trying to make him his friend. It's an exhilarating take on the music industry, the blurred line between friend and fan

and our universal search for validation, and it was a Sundance Film Festival, 2025 selection. Here's a little bit of critical praise. A transfixing tale of LA Obsession gone awry, that's what Indy Wire said. A borderline paranoid thriller made for the star fucker in everyone, that's what Roger Eber.com said, and they put a star, ironically, in the word star fucker to censor it,

but I'm going to say it because this is the kind of show. It is. one of the best movies of the year, riveting and disquieting, said Vogue, super sharp, a wicked spin on the fame game, a wicked spin, says the Hollywood reporter, and they would know more about the fame game than almost anyone else. Lurker is now playing in select theaters. It opens nationwide September 5th. You visit mooby.com slash lurker to see showtimes, get tickets. That's M-U-B-I-com slash lurker. David? This episode of Blank Check with Griffin, David, a podcast, about filmographies, is brought to you by booking.com.

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Ben, who's, like, what's an example? of someone I know who maybe has a very particular set of demands. If you're bringing me in and there's only one other person in the room. There is one other person in the room right now. I think this is so rude. I sleep easy. I'm definitely not someone who insists on

800 thread count sheets. No. That's an example of a fussy person. But people have different demands and you know what? If you're traveling, that's your time to start making demands. Maybe you've got a partner whose sleep light rise early or maybe, you know,

Like you just want someone who wants a pool or wants a view or I don't know. Maybe I'm traveling and I need a room with some good soundproofing because I'm going to be doing some remote pod record. Sure. Maybe you're in Europe and you want to make sure. That's very demanding to be in Europe. You got air conditioning. Well, I can think of one person in particular, although it's really both of you. Yes. You got to have air conditioning.

I need air conditioning if I'm in the North Pole. Look, if I can find my perfect stay. on booking.com. Anyone can. Booking.com is definitely the easiest way to find exactly what you're looking for. Like for me, a non-negotiable is I need a gorgeous bathroom for selfies. You do. You love selfies.

As long as I got a good bathroom ear for selfies, I'm happy with everything else. Look, they're, again, they're specifying, like, oh, maybe you want a sauna or a hot tub, and I'm like, sounds good to me. Yeah. Please. Can I check that box? You want one of those in the recordings, do that'd be great. you want to start

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$26 million budget, highest budget ever for them, even above Hudsucker. That's wild. And they have working title, Studio Canal, Touchstone, and Universal, all chipping in.

So I guess that's how they get the money. It also feels like, you know, Adaptation feels sellable. There's something in a way. Yeah. Yes. Right.

Like it's on paper it's wild that they got $26 million to make this movie. But I still think all those places are like 26 million for a George Clooney movie sounds like a value. Right. Even if it's a weird one. I agree. Shot on location of Mississippi. Deacons is told Roger Deacons is told like we want it to feel like very hot, very dry, very dusty. And Deacons is like, I've shot down there.

He shot Passion Fish. That's like a big, you know, he's like, it's going to be green. It's going to be, like, lush. You're shooting down there in this, like, verdant season. And Joel, indeed, reports that the Mississippi location was greener than Ireland. And that is why the digital coloring stuff comes in because they need to turn the movie sepia, essentially. They try to do, like, a chemical process, and it doesn't work. And Deacons is, like, hear me out.

I think we can try this. This gets credited as the first, like, complete D.I. You know what it just beat, right? Chicken run. The first complete movie that was. digitally scanned because I did an article on this for Vox, which everyone can read called Colors. Where did they go? And the first movie that's completely digitally scanned is Pleasantville. But they are doing that for visual effects purposes. Right. So this is the first

one where they tweak everything. They're just doing it to tweak the colors and it's revolutionary in a way that has kind of ruined filmmaking right now. It's beautiful here. It gives you so much control over every like aspects of the frame and i think right it can drive people mad every movie is basically manipulated this much now but now it's manipulated in camera you're like watching it on a monitor and seeing different color styles like what do i want it to look like essentially and at this time like they they're filming it and deacons is like i think i can figure this out in post which obviously he does but like yeah they they are still filming it in a conventional color scheme that he's that manipulating wild when you watch the behind the scenes footage and you're like oh it's

those shirts were white. That grass was green. Like, it's, I can't imagine how weird it must have felt to be the actors in this movie and, like, go to the fucking premiere as extreme as, like, Star Wars, where you're like, wow, suddenly this doesn't look cheap when you put in the sound effects and the special effects. Like, this movie just must have looked so different than their lived experience filming it. Sure.

And there was such a mood and a tone from the color palette, which is so controlled. But I do think now, beyond the ability to manipulate it at the time, memory. I also think now people shoot a lot of stuff as like, let's just get the most simple version of the image and we can fuck with it later without having the forethought of like, what are we capturing now and what are we going to change it into later? And I think there's not the same kind of like control and continuity of like we have a clearer vision for a palette for this movie that we are using as a North Star. What's funny to me is that the film is nominated for an Oscar for cinematography like we acknowledge, but didn't win.

Deacons, of course, doesn't end up winning an Oscar until Blade Runner 2049. Like, it's... Does Gladiator win? Traffic wins. No, Crouching Tiger wins, which is a good-looking movie. Yeah. And yes, the other...

Traffic was not even nominated. Traffic has the insane, like, color scheme thing that is, in my opinion, a little heavy. We were texting about that the other day, that you watch it now and you're like... Oh, we're in Blue Land. I forgot it's literally, like, jolly rancher legs. And it, like, invented the whole, like, Mexico is yellow thing

that is, like, still a scourge. We rewatch that for podcasts like it's the 2000s last year and it invented modern prestige television. That's like just by mistake. But in adapting prior prescient television. That's funny about it. Yeah. It is not my favorite Soderberg. Not even close.

No. I really like the Cheetaheel plot, which is the least heralded of the three plots. I like the del Toro stuff. At the time, it was like my favorite movie. And when I revisited it, I was like, I don't quite know. Which, like, shoots it out of a canon. It's so much better. And at the time, of course, that was not the thinking.

No, O'Rother loses. Gladiator, the Patriot, which did have a touch of the D. It had a touch of the... Caleb Dational. And then, of course, everyone's favorite movie, Malena. Right. Which I think there was one thing that people thought was very well-lensed in that film. I don't know if you guys have heard of Monica Belichert.

Giving that a very good review. He suggested that movie should win exactly two golden globes Two golden legs We just did a screening of Matrix Revolutions at Nighthawk We introed it And Monica Balochia on a big screen is quite a thing Well especially in that one she's wearing the insane red dress That's just sort of like pushing her boobs together

In the most ridiculous way And she's like, he'll die for love He loves you This is so good. Good, you know. Seeing her one scene on the big screen, I was like, there's a real argument for her being the greatest cleavage actress of all times. I'm not saying she's the largest breasted woman ever to be in movies, but I think her work in the field of cleavage is kind of unparalleled. Should you just let him keep going?

I'm sorry, I was just quoting Roger Eber there. Go on. Deacons says, I think part of the reason I lost, and partly I'm sure, you know, Crouching Tiger is a big thing, but is that a lot of cinematographers were like, oh, but, you know, he used a computer. It doesn't count. And now, of course, everybody does that. And by like... Avatar winning is kind of the big moment. And now it feels like everything is like Life of Pie, all these movies that are, yeah.

Avatar winning is such a strange one and feels like it's wild that it took that long for a digital movie to win. And also it feels like that's the type of win that they don't usually do that early. But I remember the year before that, people were like, well, could Wally get nominated? Because they like ran a serious campaign of like, no, we think about the cinematography. And Deacons was a consultant on that. Yeah. And then they do the same thing with... fucking how train your dragon.

Right. So, the music in his film, of course, T.1. Burnett, they had worked with him on Big Lebowski a little bit. And that's how they were introduced to him. I go back to the dossier. Yeah. But here, it's like they're working with him from the start of production. He's curating the music. He's finding all these major stars already, like Allison Kraus.

They're baked into the film. So, apparently, it's not something you can sort of just, like, choose in the edit. Right. And most of the stuff, like Big Rock Candy Mountain, the session recordings, what is this quote? The stuff that was redone and produced by T-Bone is all featured essentially live. It's music you see performed in the music itself. Okay, that's interesting. Obviously, like Clooney and the Soggy Bottom Boys are being dubbed.

That is, I can tell you the names of the Dan Timinsky. Right, Pat Enright and Harley Allen. This movie, for my money, has some of the best lip sync acting ever. It's very good. They oversell it in a way that makes it go down more smoothly, in my opinion, where it's like, it's clear that Clooney isn't singing, but he's making so many faces. Now, he was singing live, right? Like, he sang it on set. That's not his voice, I should say.

No, I know. Yeah, yeah. He did. It is, he is shower singing in, like, such a, like, compelling way. Everyone who sings on screen who isn't a musician by trade is acting the role of singing too hard in a way that creates a continuity for me that doesn't make me bump out of their that's clearly not their voice. He is playing a man who is pretending to be a musician who thinks this is what musicians are like. He nails that. Yep, yep.

They also make a really smart choice, which is mostly framing that sequence with his mouth obstructed behind this big. fucking can. Yes. And so he's doing all this neck and eye acting and shit, but you're not getting caught up on like, oh, the lips are a second off. Right. Of course, Clooney loves to self-deprecate and is like, I know my aunt is this famous singer and I tried to sing, but I was so bad at it.

Yeah. Did Win Album of the Year, as we say, it's the fourth soundtrack to win that award. Saturday Night Fever won? Correct. As did the bodyguard. And the third is Henry Mancini's soundtrack for the television series, Peter Gunn in 1959. I think we can discard that one. But the other two examples are

massive hit movies with soundtracks that also became phenomenons in their own way. You're right that, right. O'Brother's not a hit on the same level as other two other two other movies, but it is three examples of movies where the soundtrack is maybe more famous than the movie in a way. Yeah. Right? And they all went a zillion times platinum

or whatever. Of course, the cow is digital. I think this is a big movie for them kind of unlocking a sneaky amount of digital work. And obviously, the DIY is the most apparent version of that. But all of their movies after this have more digital effects than you would imagine, which they're really good at doing invisibly. You know, a lot of it's fucking, like, landscape changing.

Yeah. I'm glad they didn't shoot cows. You are not even allowed to bring cows near a moving vehicle in a movie because it would startle them. Right. So, of course, it had to be, you know, fake cow. The frog, Ethan, notes that people really hate the frog squishing scene. Yeah, it's gross.

But he loves it. It's all right to do frog squishing, he says. It's funny that Goodman says these things give you warts and then squeezes it as hard as he can in his hand. I understand spiteful, but I'm like, man, you're like bruising for warts there. So film premiered at the 2000 Can Film Festival. Normal and regular guy, Luke Vasson, was the chair of that year's festival. Okay. What won the Palm?

The Palm Door was some girl he saw walking by. I give the Pondor to 15-year-old. The idea. No, the Palm went to Dancer in the Dark, which is a highly controversial choice. Yeah. But is a fairly good choice in that that is an enduring movie and a special movie. It's not my favorite. I find it to be a tad sad.

Have you guys noticed this? that film yee ye was in competition which is one of your favorite one basically the greatest movie ever made it won best director best screenplay went to nurse betty remember nurse betty i loved to nurse betty i've never revisited it at the time i was i have also never revisited i have no idea how that holds up at all yes so much of nealabute's work has held up normally one day i will program yes a metrograph series of gregg keeneer the villain and that will be in there along with mystery men and loser and like a million of someone like you yeah um best actors went to bork best actor went to some sort of rando called tony lung for some un i've never heard of this movie in the mood for love i'm just think it was an insanely fuck yeah uh and so oh brother was ignored

because i'm sure the cancer he was like what he's american i don't understand it didn't even win most soggy bottomed boys which is truly kind of insulting Disney, I guess, is releasing it domestically. Joe Roth, who is somewhat iconic 90s, head of Disney, had just stepped down. People who are coming in are shown the movie and they're just silent, apparently. They're just like, what the fuck is this?

Is this DeKooker? I guess so. I don't know. And so they was released limited in, like, Christmas time, which is not a... That doesn't make any sense. No.

But then the soundtrack starts to kick off. So it has a crazy run Like a really good multiplier Makes 45 million domestic And basically runs through the end of the spring Yeah, like it never made more than like $3 million in a weekend It just chugged along

This is this is a thing that Hollywood often finds out Is you make a movie that's like set in like Red State America and it takes a while But it'll catch on and keep playing and keep going Like especially back then This is a different thing but like Breaking Bad Stayed on air because of that It's like oh we're getting watched in these places

that aren't watching anything else. So mind you, I mean, we'll get to it and I might be fine, get my numbers a little off here, but like true grit opens like something to 36 and then ends up at like 170 domestic. It's sort of like a similar thing. A maximized version of it.

Right. Like that was their biggest opening ever and then also their biggest multiplier ever. So O Brother Arthau begins with a chain gang singing O Lazarus. Yes. An old sort of spiritual it's such a cool opening

I love the opening of this movie before they're running with the you know like just the like the sort of slow fade up and the atmosphere and the title cards it's really just a prolog that kind of has right

doesn't just setting the mood in a way that is erie it's eerier than the film that follows here's a take that are parts of this movie that are very eerie yeah for sure like the sirens I think this is what blew my mind

as a child where I was like how can a movie be this funny look this good this like mad cap have the craft of like a blockbuster action in film in its precision and also have scenes that are like genuinely sad unsettling like the the Ethan Cohen tone management thing in this movie is so insane to me and part of it is that it is picaresque which I'm just kind of a slut for these sorts of structures um but I I also think it

handles the transition between these wildly different moods yeah and scenes incredibly well the everything about uh Ulysses and Penelope is so funny but also So, like, you buy their relationship and that he cares. It's, like, well-done romantic screwball stuff. It's like, it all works on all those levels at the same time. But this absolutely feels like a drama opening. It does not feel like something that should be able to transition into, like, slapstick pratfall comedy within 30 seconds. Yeah.

Which it does. I also, I can't quite crack this take. But there's something to me about the chain yang at the beginning, mostly being African-American men, singing like traditional songs before we transition to our white leads who then become incredibly successful singing old-timey music occasionally people think they are

you know black mispresenting mischaracterized sort of by mistake right and then this movie has of course one of the soggy bottom boys is black and I assume maybe the two fake members might be black too we don't know and his character is referencing

Robert Johnson of course that famous legend mythology soul to the devil But he's like the fourth lead of this movie. I mean, he's like the most recurring character in the story. Chris Thomas King, who's a musician. I love his hair. His look is great.

He's incredible. Yeah. Obviously, the importance of this film's soundtrack, but also there's something in it I can't quite totally. If you ask the cones, I feel like they'd be like, they'd say nothing. I was like close to a thesis that I couldn't quite crack while watching this, but something about like this shift in Americana music of white Americans. understanding how to pull things and popularize them, which is a cycle that then repeats for the rest of time.

I think there is this thing that when white people make a story set in this time period, especially in the South, they struggle with how to, about white characters, they struggle with how to acknowledge the systemic racism of the time, especially in like a comedy. And this movie, I think, threads the needle pretty well for the most part. I agree with you. And it is a thing. they get dinged for a lot is how predominantly white their movies are.

Sure. Especially those in the era, I feel like where they got a lot of questions about it. Yeah. And even like, you know, like the Merlin Wayne's character in Lady Killers is not the best. You know, it's like an example of being like, maybe they should only write white people

if this is how they write black parts. But this movie, I think, comes close to doing it really well. There's something that they're not overstating. It is mostly using the black characters as set dressing outside of Tommy Johnson. But it also is talking about the ways that, like, the white characters can get away with certain things. That's the thing for me.

And I think that's what is interesting about the opening to me is that you're starting in this sort of, like, gallows tone, right? Of, like, men who feel like they have no way out singing songs out of desperation. And then we're so quickly going to three funny guys who, like, can experience physical violence like Wiley Coyote will always recover from it, right? can like fall off the back of a moving train and get hit with like fucking logs and shit and they can get out they can get out

they can sort of like shake hands win over the public turn these songs into something poppier and more fun and more upbeat a song that is about sadness and convert it into something that like yeah

removes the the trauma from which it was bred in a way that makes it more palatable and like then is weaponized by a fucking politician like there's something there some of it is also coasting off the real history of country music which is poor white people and poor black people came up with this form of music and Everett is literally uh I believe he's a lawyer like he's like someone who is there's a class element too that really helps I think yes but he's a fake lawyer right and like his ability to sort of like smooth talk people just enough yeah but yeah it's something about and

I think it's why the soundtrack for this clicks so much because it's so in conversation with something it is so aware of its own history in a weird way where it's just like all of american music comes out of like slave songs prison songs spirituals yeah you know and everything descends and I think some some of that must be t-boom burnett's influence as he knows this history in a way that. I do just want to add as well that I think there also is influence from Irish and Scottish and English folk music. A lot of folks emigrated to Appalachia. Yes. And also, I think, had a big impact as well. And country blues Americana music. Did you see sinners, Ben? I didn't. And it's a bummer. Sinners digs into that a lot in a way I think you'd find really interesting. I was going to say there's a lot of vampire music in this movie. Yes. But that's a, that's a, That's a very good point. All I will say is that while watching this movie, I turned to my wife and I said,

just FYI, when I'm sometime in my 40s, it's coming, I'm going to have a year where I get way too interested in blues music and start buying records and reading books and shit. Your ass is going to have a 78 fucking player. Exactly. Like, I watch like a weird, boring documentary. Your daughter's going to be tan and so embarrassed by you. Exactly.

It just feels like something dads do with. They're like, there's nothing better than the blues, you know. I'm just, I'm, I'm tasting it already. Like, I watch anyone play the blues and the sinners has so much of it, right? And you're just like, this is the best shit. It's just a guy and his feelings and a guitar. Not only that, but you watch it and you're like, man, it'd be really cool to know a lot about this. Exactly.

It'd be really cool to be the person. That makes everyone roll their eyes. Yes, exactly. When you listen to that, that sound, the crackling of old records, it sounds like you're listening to a fucking ghost. It's also spooky and foggative. and so cool, and there's guys where it's like they were never recorded but like people, you know, oral histories

are like, no one would have a better than Mr. B, B, B, B, B, B, and you're like, yeah, he must have sounded like a, you know, freight train or whatever, it's the best. Yeah, this movie also has a fascinating balance of like, right, very modern, clean, present day recordings of professional modern singers

doing these old standards. And then also like Big Rock Candy Mountain sounding like it was a record pressed on a piece of paper. And when you talk about the tonal shifts, the music is key to that, which is, I think, why the soundtrack took off so much, because you go from O'Lasrus to Big Rock Candy Mountain, and it's a switches on a dime, and you do have the credits helping, because credits are always changing tone.

Right. You have this prologue, then you have the credits, which is like intercutting with the song, the title cards that are very old-fashioned, and then them sort of on the run. And you're very quickly getting into, like, physical hijinks, these guys being chained together. not being able to get out. And then they go to Del Mar's Brothers Place. There's the great gag on the trade,

which is always when I'm like, oh, I love this. Clooney, getting dragged out of the train. It's very funny. And then they, right, then they go to the brother's house and then they get baptized. Brothers great. Love that guy.

Frank Collison. Yeah. Who's in, we've covered him a fair amount. He's in a bunch of Shamelon movies. Hogwall him. uh yes on twin peaks yes um there's another director he works with a lot i was trying to remember great face yes one of the great faces but he's not his brother he's his

kin i think he's cousin i think he's a cousin yeah sorry yeah we got a shout out the little rapscallion i love that kid it's i curse your name his wife has r u and o f t a thing that the kid keeps miss repeating yeah yeah um but he frees them from the shackles. That, this is the place where I'm always reminded that they are clearly just going off a memory of the Odyssey because they're like, I think there's pigs in there. Right. Right. Right. Which I love that like, I think sometimes when these sort of like modernization adaptations get too schematic, the logic starts falling apart even faster when you're worried too much about like how do I translate every single element onto a comparable thing in a different place

in a different time. It helps that they're kind of just, like, picking and choosing. And when you get to Goodman, you're like, oh, right, there was a cyclops. Yes. This is the Cyclops. Yes. I don't care about every single detail being transmuted. No.

And it is not even remotely right, like, at making that effort. And obviously, Ulysses is not coming from, ever, ever, it's not coming from a war. He's coming from prison. But there's just little stuff. There's little Easter eggs. They mentioned Babylon at some point. The siren stuff, the, obviously he needs to get, his wife is going to remarry and he's got to get back before she does. But it takes us a while to know that.

He's telling them he has a treasure of $1.2 million that they have to go find. He knocked over a bank car or whatever. Yes, and that's why he was in jail. Pappy's loosely the king, but also kind of Zeus, like it's this thing of, oh, they have like, they kind of have a memory of this. And then also they probably just, like, looked up a character name list and dropped him in there. Right, there's a different Happy O'Daniel who had a different first name

but existed at the same time. Oh, isn't his name in the movie like Menelaus? Somebody's named Menelaus, which is the king of which, right, king of Troy, right? Who is that? Who does Brian Cox play in Troy? Got to look it up.

I just remember that movie, you know, obviously got Brad Pitt, you know, stunting on people. Yeah. But a lot of it is like Brian Cox, Brendan Gleas, and Sean Bean, You know, Peter O'Toole. It's got guys.

All these gravelly guys and togas with, like, beards going like, ro-lar-r-r-r-R-R-R-R-R-R. The case of that movie is so bizarre. Ryan Cox's Agamemnon and Brendan Gleeson is Minnaleas. Sparta, not Troy. Charles, Charles Durning, one of my favorite actors of all time. Yeah, I mean, this is peak during. I was going to say, this movie arguably has, like, three of my ten favorite screen actors. So, Holly, Hunter and John Goodman?

Yeah, I mean, Hunter and Derning are absolutely in my top ten. If Goodman isn't, he's very close. And Goodman is just like showing up knowing exactly what to do, giving you just enough. Holly Hunter's just doing like this real fun kind of like skill piece exercise as I bet you couldn't think someone could talk faster than Clooney. Durning is given like a fucking five course meal to play here. He keeps coming back. I love that it's like a parallel narrative that is like 30% of the movie. Yeah.

He keeps sort of like overlapping with them and crossing with them, but never like too direct. interacting with them until the end, but we spend time with him and his guys. This movie's, like, structured as a series of triangles that Clooney is a point in all of them. Yes. Which is a really fascinating choice to me. But you're almost watching it going, like, why are they spending this much time on this guy in his, like, campaign struggles and whatever? But in the structure of it, they let Durning do everything he's good at doing.

Like, what I love about Charles Durning is that he is such a specific guy. he's not someone who can transform, right? He's not someone who can disappear. And yet there is like a bizarrely wide array of applications for him and specific skills he has. And usually people focus in on one. And this is like they let him be charming. They let him be funny. They let him dance.

They let him sing. They let him be scary. Like genuinely menacing. They let him be kind of like comedically gruff. It's so good. There is a non-zero chance though that the cones just heard there was a man named Pat who had a flower-based radio show and we're like that's we got to work with that that probably amused them quite a lot who's the um Satan

no that's it don't fund parking I know that uh love that guy oh the rival Homer Stokes no him that's uh his name is Wayne Deval Wayne Deval he's uh Robert Deval's uh cousin he's good he's one of those guys who's in like a bagillion things and you know little rolls or whatever um no uh Pappy he's got the son right and then he's got the son right and then he's got two kind of advisors. One of them is the not counting the mezzanine guy. That's, what's his name? He's the eyebrows guy.

Yeah, what's his name? That guy. I'm going to figure it out. Okay. Yeah. I was just trying to remember that guy's name because I love that guy's face. Yes, he's incredible. I'll find out. But anyway, so, okay, what's going on in O'Brother Warwick? Do they get baptized? Yes. You introduced Tommy pretty quickly. It's like, but like, it's like, okay. Because they're introduced to Tommy before the baptize, the baptism.

No, right after. Are you sure? I'm not sure. but I can't remember. You also, you set up Daniel Van Bargan pretty quickly. He's when they're in the barn. Because you see him before. Right. With Dam we're in a tight spot.

Of course, I feel like it was so remarked on, but they break the rule of three. He says, damn we're in a tight spot four times. The fourth time is so funny. Yes. There's a lot of... Like them futzing with things like that. With his fucking hair dad. Yes.

But Dan Von Bargan is the sheriff is playing the Poseidon role in the Odyssey, but he's also clearly Satan himself. He is Satan himself. As much as Papio Daniels called Manilaeus, but he's clearly Zeus, if you're going by the Odyssey. Yeah. In that he sort of comes and fixes stuff at the end. But I feel like through the hogswall,

you're getting like the sense of like, okay, the depression is underway. Yes. Through the baptism, you're like, right, this kind of like big tent revival shit is happening. You know, like this kind of new American Christianity stuff. is happening the irony of this movie being like right yes this is a bad time and at the end cluny is so confident that this is the beginning of a bright future for the american south

you know that like this is going to wash away all our problems and reset and like it's toward the end of the depression so it is you know it is and that the the the the the the the the riffing on the Tennessee Valley Authority and things like in terms of the history of it so it is he's not not wrong but also yes They get that, and then, yes, they pick up Tommy. The baptism does an interesting thing technically that I think is probably a mix of the recording and then live singing, which is as you move past the people being baptized, you hear specific voices pull up in the soundtrack in a way that, like, I'm not entirely sure how they did, but I was struck by that. I mean, once again, unsurprisingly, skip leave say, on fucking fire. Yes, the big boy.

Yeah. On those ones and zeros. Yeah. um so uh they need money so right once they have tommy that's when they go to the radio station to record as the soggy bottom boys it's never really remarked on why they are so good at music yes because they don't they're not good in anything else ever i mean right they have no other skill but i guess the muse sings through them right yeah use just it just channels through them i think that's part of it but isn't also the implication that's like right they were fucking incarcerated they were in a chain gang they were like they were like like, forced to sing all the time and study other people. You know, they, like, got it from osmosis a little bit. Right. I have a question about the song, and I should know this, but was that written for the movie or is that a pre-existing song? It is a pre-existing song.

Okay. Yeah. Right. Do you know anything about it? I can look it up. I don't. It's a traditional. It's a very old, yeah, traditional.

It rips. It really does. It's pretty good. You know, the song is, like, highlighted in the trailer. And I even remember seeing the trailer for this moment, being like, I got to buy this now. track it uh uh was titled farewell song in a songbook dated to run 1913 it got its current title in 1928 it's had many you know sort of uh versions bob dillan's recorded version over the years joan bias um a lot of versions are sat right and this one is this is not this is sort of the pop

version of it uh i do it supposedly maybe is from this guy dick burnett who is like a partially blind fiddle player and it might be about him but they're you know you're not sure in this era where you basically had to buy an entire album if you wanted one song don't you think it was just like the fucking rocket power of this thing was like like i guess i need that soundtrack obviously the music's great throughout i think so because the soundtrack does have a lot of right not it has the spirituals and it has these right weird creepy numbers that are awesome but it's not you know put it on at a party surprise for people is that when they bought it for this song that then And they were like, this plays really well as an album.

This feels like a classic, you're riding in a friend's car. And like this album's on, you're like, what is this? Exactly. You know, like, because it's impacting outsized beyond the movie feels like that word of mouth thing. I think of this as being a blockbuster car album. It really feels like this was a thing that like people were buying at Starbucks, right, along with their Nora Jones album, propelled by that one song that's really fun and punchy. And then you're like, fuck, this is just kind of good music to live my life to.

It's just crazy that we're like. 17 listening to this. This is the era of Starbucks albums pulling off upsets at the Grammys, too. They're just winning every year. Like, yeah. In Enya, we just mentioned. Yeah.

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Great. They sing in a can. There's also, there's the push cart man, the blind sort of seer who predicts everything that's going to happen in the movie. And they immediately dismiss him. But that is like a haunting scene. That is like a weirdly eerie scene coming in between a chain gang and like physical nonsense. Yeah. And like Stephen Roots not like is a comical version of kind of a weird creepy guy, but he is definitely also playing that element of kind of a creepiness.

And so the Odyssey, they're always, everyone's always like blind or, you know, there's always something up with everybody when they come across. Okay, so they're a pig. That, after this is the baby face Nelson stuff. Stuff I remember hitting really hard at the time. And, you know, Baudilicho was, should we have a Baudilucho corner? Is it time? He's the one of two actors to win an Emmy for the practice. A forgotten Emmy is the other?

No, Cameron Mannheim. Tine Daly wasn't on the practice. I made that up. She's on judging Amy. Yeah. She was so good on judging Amy. You're talking about Dave? The fuck am I talking about? Right, Cameron Mannheim.

But that was the thing. It's like, Cameron Mannheim and Michael Batalucho were so hot on the practice for like one year, two years. Batalucho was an upset over Steve Harris. who everyone was like, he's going to win. They were nominated in the same category, but yeah. Right. Yeah. And then I feel like the practice, it like hit 1999.

Everyone was like, we like the West Wing and the Sopranos now. Like the practice feels, you know. Famously, the practice beat season one of the Sopranos in trauma, but then like all the actors from the Sopranos, like a couple of the actors from the Sopranos won. I think, I think, I think, well, you know what, like. I think I could do this. Itching to do an Emmy steep dive, but you guys have to see Eddington. I think I can do it off the top of my. head. I wanted to see if you could do it off the top of your head.

The practice went over the Supranos is, of course, one of the most insane. Like, what were they thinking? It had won the year before over not the surprise. You know, like, so it was season two of the practice, I think. Yeah. People don't remember the practice, it was dark alley McBeal. It was David E. Kelly had the hottest legal show in both comedy and drama. The famous

David E. Kelly thing of, I'm going to do a show that's serious and real, and by season three, it's bonkers. And Michael Emerson's playing a serial killer who dresses as a nun. And you're like, oh, great. Yeah. It's also, at that point in time, he was such a celebrity, like, creator, showrunner in a way that wasn't really. There were not many like him, yes. A thing, and I always fall into the trap of being like, yeah, and I guess he kind of receded, right?

And you're like, man works more than ever. He's just not the headline on the shows and the way he used to be. He's still working for sure. He also, you know, married Michelle Pfeiffer, which at that peak of TV was just like, this guy also gets to, I feel like there was a weekend update joke about like, dude, you're married to Michelle Pfeiffer. Why are you working so much? Fair question. Spend more time at home. ED1 actress.

Dennis Franz wins actor. Friends wins, I believe, his fourth and final Emmy for lead actor, correct? And practice one series. I don't remember who won supporting. I've been trying to crack that. In drama, do you want to know? I would love to know. Okay, well, it's, oh man, this is crazy.

Baudelucho and Holland Taylor for the practice. Oh, there we go. So Mannheim must have won the year before. Yeah. Or the year after or whatever. And again, like, Holland Taylor in the practice, who, I'm sorry. I love Holland Taylor,

but please get the fuck out of here. Beats Nancy Marchand and the Sopranos. Yes. Which is fucking crazy. Her final chance. Yeah. I mean, I think season two is her final chance. But season one is when she's like throwing fastballs.

Yeah, they're also not going to give her a fucking posthumous Emmy for the CGI episode. Well, that's season three. They should. That's three wild. She's in one and two. Okay. By two, I think they have a slightly less. They're not quite sure what to do with that character.

By two, they know she's dying. and they're like we can't work with her as much right yeah and like in one obviously the Tony you know and Libya thing is like the engine of the show more yeah god what a weird era because it's like the practice NYPD Blue

these kinds of like robust network dramas that were good but we're still like 22 episode like episode you know like case of the week stuff I don't know yeah and then like yeah it's all goes away guys want to talk about this more okay fine oh brother we're art now all right what's going on in this

Yeah. The Batalucho stuff. I don't know. You like him? You like Batalucho? I do. He's playing a real guy. Baby Face Nelson, who's got this inferiority complex about not being seen as a big tub. And he looked like that. He had a little hat. Yeah. It was so cool that there. There were bank robbers. Well, okay, Ben. Yes. Sure. Yeah. I think Ben raises a great point. I also love the bit of him pulling up and asking for directions. The police car is coming from a distance. He's like, money getting the car. Them being oblivious. And money is just flying out of the car and Tim Blake Nelson is doing such good work of, like, trying to catch the dollar bills as if it's, like, a miracle. But he's such an innocent that he's, like, going to give it back.

He's just a gog all the time at everything happening. I like that good scene where Tommy plays for them again after the recording by the fire, and they all talk about what they're going to do with their money. Yeah, I like that scene, too. Ben, I got to know who your 1930s bank robber persona is. Dr. Tertr's going to open a restaurant, and he's going to wear a tuxedo. I mean, no matter what, I'm talking like this. Yeah. Good.

For sure. Good. Yep. But then will anyone know what you want? You're like walk into the bank and you're like, meh. And I think that's enough because it's such an established thing that everyone knows. Yep, this is a robbery. Right.

But my persona, I think I would be fucking dressed to the nines. You know, like just a really well-tellered suit, big old hat. Fancy Benny Hosley? Fancy Benny. Or Benny the suit. Benny the suit. Yes. Gentlemen, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Damn. This is good. I wouldn't rob any banks, personally. Seems stressful. I might go more for the Titoro. I want to open a big restaurant and wear a tuxedo every day vibe.

You're trying to find something. You know, I was just getting through. You know what I like about the Battle Lucho sequence? Yes. They make it out. And then he plays the deep core sadness at the fire afterwards. The calm down. It's hours later.

And they're sort of like, what's up with him? It's like this thing, it goes from... And every diagnosis him. He's like, when the highs are high, you know, yeah, yeah. But also that they, like, clock that it's not just that, like, when he's responding in the bank, it's this sort of, like, impotent rage, right? It's just this sort of, like, knee-jerk retaliation to the idea of not being taken

seriously. And then, like, later at night, this guy's just sad. It's not like he's still fuming about, like, they called me baby face. there's like a deep emptiness inside of him. Brian Reddy is the name of the guy we were trying to... Hell, yeah.

It's just one of those guys and this is a two billion thing. Including an episode of the practice. You get to the information that the soggy bottom boys are becoming ahead. That Stephen Root doesn't have

any info on them. Right. Right. Now, they, is it that this part where the newspaper they're eating the pie? Yes.

Is that this section? Look, it's all good comedies should have at least one instance of people stealing a hot pie. A sill pie? Absolutely. I, as a kid, watching Looney Tunes, was convinced that adulthood, a big part of it, was stealing pies off of windows. It's a thing you only get to do when you grow up.

You make the pie, and then there's that dangerous part where you're like, it has to go on the windows. It has to. And it's almost understood. It can't cool elsewhere. Nowhere else. But it's understood that also you might lose a pie that way. Leaving children roam the backyards of America. And tasty smell lines are going to reach all the way to the nearest rapscallions.

We're living in a time when we're bringing back too much of the Great Depression era, but we do need to bring back pies, cooling in windows. This is the only part of Make America Great Again, I agree with, is we lost some key element of greatness in our cultural identity. The second we closed our windows and let pies cool indoors. That was a big part of Trump's campaign. pain last year. It really was. He brought it up all the time, including... Put her back on the stone. That and Paul...

Open the window. Joey and I were doing a whole thing. Because you know Maria Hill dies in secret invasion? Kobe Smolders, they just shot her. Right? You know, like, no one remembers this, obviously, because it's been like memory hold. Yeah. But there was some tweet that was like she fucking died like two, you know, two years

ago. And Joey just started doing, like, Trump being like, Wonderful woman, not too tough on the eyes, folks. Maria Hill, we lost her. a great one. Biden let scrolls into our country, you know, just like... Trump talking about random shit that isn't real.

He is still funny. The Trump comedy nerd account, which I loved so much. And would tweet that kind of thing about... Like Seth Simon tweets. Yes. But like experiment in Mitch Hurwitz. Tried to reinvent the wheel with season four. And Netflix made him recut it chronologically.

Like a dog. Like shit like that. never not funny I hate that he lives he's bad person but it's funny to imagine talking about scrolls it is

we hate the scrolls folks I'm gonna get the scrolls out Biden let the scrolls in they were fighting the cree for a long time border porous scrolls coming in they get this the siren sequences next where they get turned into they think Pete gets turned into a frog

a to a horny toot they're tempted by the fornication Another thing, when I was a kid, I was pretty sure that I would be regularly drinking out of a jug with three X's labeled on it. I've still never done that. You would, like, go to the store and that would be on a high shelf. Yeah, yep. This whole movie is like Ben's Pinterest board. You mentioned, you mentioned your wife's got a surprise plan for you for your birthday.

Maybe that's it. My God. Wow. That would be huge. She's going to take you the finest window still in New York City. What do you think? Why is Pete's, why are Pete's clothes laid out? that what does happen there i think he fornicates

fornicates yeah they lead him off into the woods and he's caught yeah uh mid fornication mid fornication yeah show us that coens yeah cowards because delmore's a version uh he hasn't he doesn't have time to he's got to get the family farm back really before he thinks about that guy and ever it's like and then everett makes a baby seemingly every year with holly hunter right the math on the babies is like impossible it's so funny when you see and then it's holly hunter I know. The tiniest frame imaginable. But it's just so funny when you see the girls first, okay, he's got three children, right?

Then you go indoors, Holly Hunter's holding a new baby and has three additional children with her. You have to tie them all in a line. There's seven in total, like? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So they think I've had a pizza toad, so they have a toad now. A horny tire.

A horny tire. I love this song to The Siren Sing. Yeah. It's one of my faves. And it's a scene that is, like, funny. All of the reaction thoughts are fun. right like tituro seemingly increasingly angered by the seduction them smushing tim blake nelson's face and yet it's also a little creepy yeah i think the sirens are also dubbed by emily

harris alice and gillian jillian welch the jillian yeah after this is i guess the um the cyclops the um you know the bible sales big dan uh sort of you're of goodman right goodman in in uh kind of Barton Fink but just more cartoonish evil mode He's also he is also so clearly Evil Everett Like he's like Yes right big talker but right

Yeah But I like that he's playing the darkness At the forefront from the beginning Yes There's sort of an obvious move to have him Play more successfully charming And then disarm you with it Right more sweet more than sweet

I think this is where the Odyssey thing works in their favor Because you're like well that's the fucking cyclops Right like I know what the cyclops does Yes you're And the reveal is him turning around, turning towards the camera and showing the eye patched the ass. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But yeah, it's also just funny to watch fucking John Goodman swing a big a big ass branch. When he's, he's, the fact that neither of them are putting it together as he's preparing to beat their ass and then even after he hits down, what are you doing? Yeah. So he's so calmly like, what are you doing there, Dan?

That just keeps going like, Dan, I got a minute, I'm not sure I quite understand the lesson. You said year of Goodman. Is this a specific year of Goodman you want to highlight? No, I'm saying 2025 for the Blank Check podcast. It is the year of Goodman for us. King Ralph and five Goodman Coens? Many Coens, exactly.

But I will say in 2000, he was also in The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwink. Of course. He's quite good, and that as a Southern sheriff? It sounds like something he might have done. Coyote Ugly, where he's the dad who's like, I'm not sure if I want you going to work at Coyote Ugly. He might also be a Southern sheriff? Probably. Emperor's New Grove, where he is a Peruvian farmer.

yeah and just wants to keep his little hamlet on top of his mountain type casting and uh what planet are you from which i haven't seen which i just watched for the first time and is in my opinion good have you ever seen it emily is is that the mike nichols one that's mike nichols that i'm going to be watching it for two thousands because we're doing mike nichols later it is the fucking uh larry sanders blank check can i transfer the heat to movies move and he gets nichols in this all-star cast and i'd always assumed it was terrible because it was a flop at the time you and it has no reputation. I thought it was pretty solid. Yeah. I watch it back-to-back with Town and Country, which is worse than people say. Oh, wow. Town and Country didn't even deliver

on the rock-bottom expectations? It is astonishing. I want the FBI to release all the Town and Country papers. I have so many questions that will never be answered about how the fuck that movie ended up that way. I'll watch it. Yeah.

I got to watch Silverman, Town and Country. I've got to watch all these like 2000 era like maligned comedies okay then we get to the big reveal of Holly Hunter and all that Ray McKinnon who's such a funny face man

we love Ray McKinnett Deadwood he justify one or just just to no no what's it called rectify rectify rectify we all forget rectify it's a brilliant show he's like he's the creator and director and it's beautiful one in Oscar

with fucking Walton Goggins Yep. For the accountant, a little short film he made. Which then they adapt into a feature film called Randy in the Mob. That I haven't seen. That went nowhere. But he's great. He is revealed to be the campaign manager for Papio Daniel.

I just love that he fucking laid. No, he's the campaign manager for the reformer. Homer. But he lays out Everett like so thoroughly. Yes. Clooney doesn't land a punch on that guy. Clooney is one of the best at like comedic punch reaction. It's when you talk.

talk about, like, David, him saying, like, I'm doing this, I'm in, I know what the Coens are, I know what they want. He so understands the visual language of the Coens as filmmakers that he knows how to, like, with his body, complete the shots that they want of, like, the angle of the reaction to being hit, the spinning towards the camera or clocking the neck back. Like, he has seven or eight times in this movie where he has to react to a hit that are all so fucking funny. This is a bit of a hot take, but George Clooney is not my favorite director. I don't love all his films He's like Midnight Skygun For the first of all time There's eight movies

I could have busted out there as a joke Yeah that all came out in 2021 All on different streaming services Yeah But even in his earliest film roles You see him understanding the camera And how he's gonna fill in the frame And like he's not a bad director

The movies he makes that I don't like Are not ineptly made It's more that the story tends to be very boring Like or whatever you know like he loses me elsewhere But I agree with you that that has crappy works with clever people you know it's interesting because there are few movie stars who kind of feel more constantly aware of filmmaking than he does without being self-conscious

he's so good at not just like knowing his angles but knowing what will make a shot pop and then that doesn't really translate over his directing yeah yeah he's he's his his visuals and his films are often you look at light night sky tender bar boys in the boat yeah and you're like Jesus and And then you remember, he also did a catch-22, like, mini-series on top of that. Yes. All, like, in, like, five years. Four years. The four years where, like, the world is shut down.

Yeah, and he's like, eh, I don't have to work much. I got all this tequila. Yes, right. And yet, I do think Confessions is a really strong debut that's fun. Yeah, I love that movie. And Good Night and Good Luck rocks and only rocks more on rewatch. But then it's a media drop-off. Then it's like, I'd say much.

I've actually never seen leatherheads. I've tried to get through it. I think there's a, there's like two leatherhead stands out there in the world. I had to March. John Krasinski and George Clooney. I guess so. Yeah. Iads of Marsh sucks.

Yeah. And that's, it's just. Monuments Men is just a big old sleeping pill. But is actually anger-inducing where it's like, how is this not watch? You have so much at your disposal here. I feel like that's his entire career now. It's like, how is boys in the boat or whatever, not, yeah. Well, yeah, he's, I can't talk about it.

But he's in a Noah Baumbach movie this year. Uh-huh. Which we like. We like that he's working with, like, other directors. I'm excited that he's acting more again. Yes. That was the most annoying part of him making shitty movies for so long is, like, why aren't you being George Clooney?

And why are you your only director? You know, like, if you're acting, it's because you're directing yourself. Yeah. Which he told me when I interviewed him for Sir Burma Con, he didn't like doing. Yeah. Which I guess, it's Midnight Sky. He's not in Tender Bar or Boys in the Boat, I guess. No.

So good for him, I guess. But lead Monuments, Ben. lead kind of lead nights of Marshall does really gosling leatherheads, yeah. But yeah, Ray McKinn's the campaign manager for the competition.

Homer Sox we've been introduced to as the reform candidate who fights for the little man. He's got a little person on stage with him in a broom. It's such a good, like, it's such a good campaign gimmick.

All gimmicks from reality, like from history. There's a guy who did a broom thing. But it's playing on your expectations of like, here's Papio Down who looks like fucking Colonel Sanders. who's angry Charles Durning

being like, why they want to like this progressive guy, right? And you're like, oh, he's like the old Southern,

like stuck in the mud institutional piece of shit. And here's this guy who actually cares about people and he's leading this ground swell that like Papi's not going to be able to stop. And then,

of course, you realize that this guy is the Grand Wizard of Clucliff Clan chapter. True. Papio Daniel actually does care. At least somewhat. And it certainly is less.

He's a ideologically motivated. Right, yes. But also, like, there's something to me in the moment where the crowd booes Homer

for calling out that he thinks there's a misanjation going on, right? Yes. They just want to listen the music.

Exactly. And, like, there's the moment where Pappy goes, like, oh, they don't care. And immediately he's like, actually, let's maybe be more progressive, right?

It's like, he listens to the people in a way. People talk a lot about whether the cones are conservative filmmakers, by which I mean, I don't think they voted for Donald Trump, but the sense that they have an inherently conservative view of the world. And like, I don't think that they do, but I think they have an overwhelming faith in Fargo's the best example of this. Just normal folk who are going to like realize, like, the truth of the matter. There's a distrust of institutions and power. And there's a belief in the individual person. And I think that we live in a world that has sort of disprove

to that notion, but also when everyone's excited that the soggy bottom boys are that good, that they don't care that they're an integrated group. Exactly. I also, I just think I've heard people make the argument that they're like neoliberal hacks and that they're like libertarian

like fuck it all guys. And it is interesting that all three of those reads, like persist in tandem and yet none of them totally fit. Yeah, and it really depends on the project. They just are, they do not think that institutions have the best interests

of everyone in mind, which I think is true. It's all a little glossed though, and I think some critics just bumped on that right away. Yeah, I think that the clan element of this film, I think, ultimately works, but it is simultaneously playing a silly vibe on something that is horrified. It is so chilling, and yet, right, also a broad comic scene that's shot like a buzzby, Berkeley musical. Yeah. And it is, I mean, to me,

it is kind of magic to try something that insane. I'm kind of like bewildered by it like in a good way But at the same time it's so jelling to see the clan on screen The sequence opens with like silence watching them form With the fiery cross which is so upsetting And this on the O Death song I was gonna say it's like two seconds of

Two seconds, two minutes of unaccompanied music That is presented in a very haunting way And then it sort of gets back into comedy Like these like pivots the movie's able to make Within a scene It's so silly that they're doing choreo Yeah. Like, I think that's, like, a funny element.

But again, it's also so horrifying to see. The silliness is vital. At the same time, you're like, oh, they're going to kill Tommy. Like, they are playing those two things simultaneously. But even, like, in when Homer is, like, taken out, right? When he's losing the crowd. Yeah. And he goes, like, look, I have it on good authority that these men interfered with the duties of a lynch mob.

I am a member, a high up member of a secret society. need not even mention name like you go into the scene thinking oh they're going to out him some way and the crowd's going to turn he offers that information up himself and thinks that people will be like oh of course we got your back yeah yeah i think we also need to bring back riding people out of town on a rail which is right somewhere on the rail is good we got to bring it back got to bring it back folks we love the rails the scrolls need to go on the rails there's a book called A Fever in the Heartland, which is quite good, which is about this period in history when the clan is like this huge organization. But also, if they're exposed, then people are like,

well, we don't want to have anything to do with the clan. And it's sort of about the downfall, the beginning of the downfall of the clan. And this movie kind of captured. Is that book? I don't want to read the Timothy Egan. Yes. That's what I find fasting about that moment is he's like, I know I can't say it outright because we're not supposed to admit it anymore. But if I allude to it, I think everyone will quietly nod in agreement and go, like, we all agree to not call out what you're saying. And he is surprised that the crowd turns on him. Yeah. And it is also like playing off the theme you mentioned of music being this integrating force, not as strongly as it should have been.

Right. But, you know, having this element of, oh, this is how African American culture moves up into the mainstream. Right. And what Pappy Clacks isn't like, these people want progress. progress. It's they don't care. Right? And it's better to take the less cynical position of just like, just don't yuck anyone's yum. They're enjoying this song. Durning does say that. Don't yuck there. He does say that. Yeah. Pappy licks his finger and then sizzles his butt. He does do that. This is the thing Dernan classically trained dancer knows how to soft shoot. Hell yeah. Right? He moves so well despite being built like the state puff marshmallow man. He's so light on his feet. You're right. And of course, Of course, the white clothes makes even more marshmallowy in this movie.

It was just a real era of him going like, like, you know, in everything he was in, I feel like. That bit of him that they hit like three times of him being so benevolent to the crowd, right? I love the soggy bottom boys. I'm giving them full pardons. And not only that, they're going to be my brain trust. And then they keep cutting back to the same angle of him turning around his shoulder and going, isn't that right, boys? And he looks scarier than any human.

being has ever looked on film. He looks scarier than this movie's depiction of Satan. Love Charles' journey. The same year, he's in state and Maine as the mayor. I feel like it's a somewhat similar role, right? Yeah, and, you know, never got his Oscar, but... Nominated twice. Yes.

And kind of weird nominations. I mean, he should have gotten the fucking Dog Day nomination. I know, but that was like a guy... Everyone gets, right. Yeah, everyone's good at that. But I'm like, his fucking, like, top ballot for me of, like, putsy Muppet movie. dog day

I love the Muck movies in there I'm not mad Doc Hopper is unbelievable and his incredible version of what I'm saying is how does he get away with making this villain actually upsetting

in a Muppet movie When Griffin loves someone I'm not good at that remembering that they may have been in a Muppet movie He is the human lead in the Muppet movie

Yeah Doc Hopper is the other side of Pappio Daniel They're like the same coin I've basically dressed the same I think I've seen Muppets Take Manhattan a bunch of times, because it must

have been on TV or something, I think I've only ever seen, and I've seen Christmas Carol many times. Sure. I love and respect it. And it has Charles Dickinson. Well, what excuse would you have to watch the other Muppet movies? You have zero children and you hate putting on things for them to watch. The fucking insane thing about the Muppets Take Manhattan is the Broadway

show at the end of that. Like, I always imagine going to see, oh, and then the, like, the, like, walls are singing. And also, a pig and a frog got married. What's night two of this? Or are you going to wrap? Do you think my daughter would like the Muppert movie?

Like, is she ready? Six times a year. Yes, she's ready. My kid, I watch random things on YouTube with them and their favorite is Frog Song, which is Rainbow Connection. Right, right, well, Rainbow Connect, it's just right, the whole narrative. I think put on some Muppet show

first because that bite size. It's a little tiny. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all on Disney Club. She loves Sesame Street. Good callback. Although, isn't it, is it leaving? No, Disney's not going to go. No, that's fucking Zazelav and Looney Tunes. Muppets aren't going. Right, right, right. Um, so we should be wrapping up soon because you guys have to see Anington, but, um...

It feels like there's such a clean, like, oh, all the races were in one spot, Pappy won the election, he's, like, commuting their sentence. Everything's good. You think the movie's over. Right. There's this bonus mini act of, okay, like, Holly Hunter will shift the wedding. The date in the venue are the same. The cast is going to change, but she demands the ring. It's the Dana Carvey you forgot about state. Right. And so they have to go back to the family cabin to get the ring in the roll-top desk.

But in fact, Satan is waiting there for them. He doesn't know that they've been pardoned because we don't have radios. Man's law. Yes, right. He's trying to hang them. And then nature intervenes. The gray flood happens. Is he a cow on a roof as predicted? Uh-huh. Uh, Everett is still fighting with Penny. She's like, that's the wrong ring. but I feel like everyone's gonna get what they want Yeah

Like I think Pete will open his restaurant I do too I sure hope that Delmer will get The Family Farm Get me international pop stars And I guess they can Right they can earn money that way Yeah Delmar is gonna be knee deep

And strange The Soggy Bottom Groupies It is funny They're called the Soggy Bottom Boys Like it's just like The Wet As Trio It's a good name for a band And it's funny

Because that is referencing the fact that they had been baptized just previously so they show up and they're kind of still a little wet it is it is interesting that the movie raises this question of like your eternal soul and then it's like those were the stakes we had established earlier remember in the last 10 minutes yes yes so why does nature intervene in help what have they done to earn this nothing well cluny's argument is that it's just trying to reset the culture sure that's not about them that it was fortuitous timing because he also doesn't want to believe

that any sort of fate that was projected upon them by... Right, he's the master of his own... The sightseer. But then, seeing the cow on the roof is the thing that kind of knocks him out of it and wonder. They did accidentally take down a clan leader. Like, they didn't mean to do that, but they did. You're right, so they've done good. Yeah. And then they brought

music to the world. They did. We love music. Yeah. I think God thinks Man of Constance are as a toe-tapper. It is. And it's sure it. And they... And they helped Tommy with no compose. You know, when they see Tommy's in trouble, there's no, like, ah, we shouldn't, you know, we're going to get in, like, they, they're all united on that. That's a big point. They help everybody they meet, even if it's to do bad. Yeah.

It's like an interesting view of karma. They're helpful people. Yeah. I think this film is quite good. Yeah. To me, it's sort of in that hot circuit thing where I'm like, great movie. Don't think it's in my Cohen's top ten, but that's a Cohen's thing. That's ten masterpieces.

I have the opposite thing of you, Emily, just because it was the first one I saw where every time I watch it, I'm like, I'm like, Like, am I going to have that buzzing of I've seen the greatest movie I've ever seen in my life again? And it's sort of the way that Edgar Wright talks about seeing Raising Arizona for the first time and being like, why aren't all movies like this? Oh, that's the first one I saw I was Raising Arizona. My uncle showed me that was like, you're going to love this. I was like 14. I was like, what the fuck is this? My parents tried to show me Raising Arizona when I was like six or seven and it didn't take.

I didn't know a movie could do that at the time. But I think I felt that way seeing this for the first time. Yeah. And then I went back and watched Raising Arizona and finally got it. This is toward the bottom of my Cohen's top ten, but I think it's like nine. I think it's in there. It's a fantastic job. Currently at 11, but we'll see how this list shakes out, I will say.

Box office game. Okay. So I do have to go see Eddington. You have to go see Endington, and I don't want to do the opening weekend, which was like cast away. We've done that. It's Christmas 2000. I want to do its biggest weekend.

Okay. So that's February 2nd, 2001, Griffin. A robust 3.5? Correct. 3.6. That is the most money it made in an individual weekend. It's number 11 at the box office. Okay.

Number one of the box office is a romantic, comedy. February 2001. Yes, one of these stars might have caught Roger Ebert's eye. It is called the Wedding Planner. Yes. A really, really bad movie. Yeah, a film

I feel you punch a lot. I really hate the Eminem speech in it. It drives me crazy. Yeah. And I think it's McConaughey sapped of the most juice. Like those slightly later McConaughey Rom Comes where he's more of a, like, rascal. Well, 10 days is the biggest hit.

And then it's just like this cursed him into a cul-de-sac of success, of uninteresting success for eight years before he got his mojo back. In Wedding Planner, he's just this like V-Nex sweater, loser mother-of-have you seen wedding planning? I have. I have. And you're a huge fan. I saw it at the time. And I was like, this is this should win best picture. I gave it four stars in the Chicago Sun-Times. Of course. Adam Shankman He of disenfranchanted. Your former collaborator. Yes. Former boss. Yeah. Well, I think I think he considers himself a collaborator. Number two at the box office is a

horror film? Why is a horror film coming out at this time? Oh, could it be attached to a holiday? Oh, it's Valentine? Valentine. That's Borianna's first build. Is that his only first build film? Has to be... Yeah. Before he's like, ah, you can catch me on the silver screen forever. I mean, on the small screen, sorry.

Like, you know, I'm going to bones. The bronze screen. Just quietly, the new Scott Bacula. Just like quietly, constantly working. Yeah. You know, what was the thing you did after? Do, like, another fucking CBS show for, like, 70 years? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

One of those guys, my dad will see and be, be like, God, he must have so much fucking money. That was true. There's certain people like that where they're not the biggest stars, but it's like you have been on a show for 25 consecutive years. Those bones guys, especially like the middle cast of bones, right? Not additional. Like, I just think about that all the time. But also, there was the big bones lawsuit that I will let people look up in their own time.

They all got an additional big payday. years later. That Navy SEAL show with Borianis had a dog on it. And I was, it was one of my last TCA press tours. And we all wanted to interview the dog's handler. And Borianna's had to look like this is what's become of my career. It was, it was his kind of, uh, out of the way, Boreannis, we don't care about you anymore. It was his Kelsey Grammer, Moose moment. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, number three at the box office, as a film I mentioned already, we've covered on the podcast as a giant hit. It's in its seventh weekend. It's made $203 million. It's Oscar nominated it's great

I guess a drama and adventure movie I guess it's castaway that's castaway number four great movie we love castaway we love castaway it rules it rocks and rolls

number four at the box office is a teen a film I think they're teens in this one right it's a young people romance oh a walk to remember no that's Shankman it is not a walk to remember

and I think yeah that might be like a year prior or after yeah yeah it's a It's got dancing in it. Is it center stage? No. Save the last dance.

It's saved the last dance. A big ass styles, huge hit. A weird, like out of nowhere, winter blockbuster. The very cute Sean Patrick Thomas, who never quite, like, you know, got his big star moment. And a Juilliard movie, er, directed by Thomas Carter. Who then later goes on to direct. Coach Carter. And they were like, this movie's got your name all over it.

And then, of course, directed my favorite movie, the Cuba Gooding Jr. TV movie, Gifted Hands, the Ben Carson story. You love that film. You voted for that film for president. I wrote it in. Yeah. And number five of the box office is

a one best cinematography, Griffin. At the Oscar. Creshing Tiger Hood Dragon. What's it up to at this point? 52. God. So it's got a ways to go. Yeah.

A crazy run. Emily. Got traffic? Uh-huh. Yeah. What's head over heels? That was Freddie Prince and Monica Potter? You're correct.

Yes, Monica Potter, Freddie Prince, Jr. Yeah. That seems to be about that. One of those. Emily, we're going to end this episode abruptly because Ben and I... Finding Farser Snatch and Sugar Lot. Have to get to an inacton screening for reasons that are hopefully apparent six episodes ago. Sure.

Okay, great. I'm going to do the Emily St. James is available here in like under a minute. I think I can do it. I'm going to put my shoes on while you're doing. Yeah. So you can find my... my work everywhere online. I am at Emily St. James on most platforms,

mostly blue sky and lighterbox. I am a writer on the TV show Yellow Jackets, which you can find on Paramount Plus with Showtime, which is a very weird way to say something. Paramount Plus with Showtime. My novel Woodworking out in bookstores right now, apparently people are buying it and reading it and enjoying it, and I'm so glad of that.

My podcast is Podcasts Like It's the 2000s, which I co-host with Phil Iscove. When is this episode coming out? Oh, great question, and I can definitely tell you that. September? We are either doing late August. Oh yeah, we're doing best director follow-ups. We're covering the movies that all the best director winners did

as follow-ups. We're probably talking about Ron Howard's The Missing. I love this. I might message you about which movies are available. It's just okay. And then finally you can find my newsletter at episodes.ghost.io. And you, if you just see me in the street, come up and say hi, I'll shake your hand. You're the best in the biz. You're such

an important friend in the history of this show. It is always a pleasure to have you on, and it's always fun when an episode comes together. We've weirdly been struggling to find someone for this. You message us or like late notice. I'm in town in a week. Yeah. And we were like, oh, brother?

And you went like, I wrote a whole fucking piece on the DIY. Yeah. That piece you can find at colors. Where did they go at box.com? So, yeah. All of the links will be in the episode description. Of course. I also just want to do a quick shout out.

If anyone is interested in listening to any like very old Appalachian music, like all stuff on 78s. There was an WFMU show called Old Khazer with Courtney T. Edison. It's not on anymore, but I'll put a link in the description. You can listen to those back episodes. Old Khadr. Yeah. And then I also just want to shout out for anyone who may be interested in contemporary roots,

Americana music. Check out the music publication, No Depression. Hey, and David? Blin-check theme, parenthetical Sirens edition. which you heard at the beginning of this episode, was recorded and produced, not that kind of silence, was recorded and produced by her friend,

Gabe Barreto, and performed by Maggie Feldman, Olivia Ellen Lloyd, and friend of the show, passed and future guest Academy Award nominee, Amy Irving. Their Spotify profiles are included

in the episode description, and we thank them greatly for taking the time to do that very silly thing for us. Yay. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

Tune in next week for The Man Who Wasn't there, correct? Yeah, absolutely. And as always, I'm a dapper Dan, man. Oh, fuck. God damn it. Yeah, we have to leave time, too, for everyone at the theater to sing me happy birth. We do. That's a really important request. I heard the whole cast is going to come.

Yeah. I'm saying you happy birthday. I mean, I'm fully expecting that. Do you want me to sing you happy birthday right now? I will. You know what? Not right now. Surprise me. All right. I will. I will. Now, Griff, are you going to sing? No.

Okay. This movie has so many good quotes. I think you should sing. I think it's not a singer. I think I'm definitely going to sing. You could yodel. I think in Lew and Davis. Oh, sure.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, Rachel, love that. Yeah, she will. I'll be like, damn, you're good. Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman, and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas,

and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Pat

for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blankcheck Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank CheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.