Blank Check with Griffin & David - Point Break with Lux Alptraum

Episode Date: October 8, 2017

Writer/Performer Lux Alptraum joins Griffin and David to discuss 1991’s iconic surf heist, Point Break. But is this one of the sexiest boy films of all time? Is Bigelow a nihilist or a realist? Is Bodhi’s ultimate plan really just death by giant wave? Together they discuss the career trajectories of Patrick Swayze, Keanu Reeves and Lori Petty, the Fast and the Furious franchise basically being a carbon copy and how the directing of this movie makes everyone want to move to California, learn to surf and eat 2 meatball subs.

Bodhi, this is your fucking wake-up call, man. I am a P-O-D cast. Yeah, no, that's great. That's the best line of the movie, right? It's great delivery. It's a great delivery. Yeah. I love that line.

I love that movie. I love that movie. This movie that we're talking about today. Yes. On what podcast? Blank Check with Griffin and David. Hi, I'm Griffin. Great job.

David Sims. I'm David Sims. Griffin Newman. Yes. On what podcast? Blank Check with Griffin and David. Hi, I'm Griffin. Great job. David Sims. I'm David Sims. Griffin Newman. Yes. This is a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have had massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever wild passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes

they bounce, baby. And this is kind of the movie that starts the checkbook is sort of issued with some contingencies after this. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Because after this is her blank check. This is her blank check.

Her whatever. This is her loan approval. Sure. What do you call the movie that gets you the blank check? Right. What do you need to do to get a checkbook, to open a checking account?

Right. This is her two forms of ID. Right. Your guarantor. This Right, your guarantor. This movie's her guarantor. This is like your rich parent coming with you to the bank. That's the word. This is her guarantor. This is her guarantor. Thank you for talking on my before we introduce you, as I prefer.

Always. Yes. So, this is a main series about the films of Catherine Bigelow. It is called Pod 19, The Widowcaster. That's right. And today we're talking about what is sort of, I mean, weirdly, she's got two defining films of her career. She's got two consensus favorites, I guess. Right, right. And this is the first.

Right. Right? Yeah. Two movies that if you point a gun at someone and say, what are your favorite Bigelow movies? They, you know, like Family Feud style. These would probably be top two. Right, and they're arguably like,

I mean, Hurt Lockerby. Yes. They're arguably like two major phases of her career. And this represents one. The second represents the other. Yeah, I would say

there's the sexy boys phase and then there's the sort of like gritty realism, like, topical. Docudrama phase. And then I'm curious to see whether,

I feel like we might be on the verge of a third place. I would love her to go back to Sexy Boys, honestly. Me too. Yeah, that would be just fine. This is one of the sexiest boy movies ever made. Yep. It is called Point Break. Yep.

And boy, everything about this movie is sexy. Steeped in the female gaze. Yes. It is. It truly is. But even just like, I want to fuck the waves in this movie. That's also true. You know, like everything is so well shot. I want to fuck the waves in this movie. That's also true. You know, like everything is so well shot.

I want to fuck the meatball sandwiches in this movie. It's a very like weirdly sexual romantic movie in every sense. Because I do. I look at the sandwiches and I'm like, that's a good fucking looking sandwich. I want to fuck Swayze's hair in this movie. Swayze's hair is unbelievable. He grew that shit. That's him.

So the movie we're talking about today, of course, is K-19, The Widowmaker. Point Break. The film we're talking about today of course is K-19 The Widowmaker Point Break the film we're talking about today is Point Break and I'm very excited for our guest we have today who has already spoken because she knows her shit

that's how I like it she knows her shit she's a long time blankie big supporter of the show and she's a performer and a writer gal about town

gal about town TV producer all kinds of shit. All sorts of stuff. Friend of mine, Lux Alptrom. Thank you so much for being here. I am so excited to be here. This is one of my top five movies.

I said to David and Ben, this is like your Toy Story 2. Yes. Like this is the movie that you know backwards and forwards, have analyzed every single element of, could probably watch the most, have maybe watched the most. I love it so much.

I feel like years ago when we were still a Star Wars podcast and we were kind of like what's this podcast going to be you pitched us on a Point Break episode

I probably did yes that's what I remember yeah because I love it I and it's finally come to pass

yeah and it's my dreams are coming true and it's all downhill from here but it is one of those movies that you like enjoy because I know I have some distinction between like these are my favorite movies Dreams are coming true and it's all downhill from here. But it is one of those movies that you enjoy.

Because I know I have some distinction between like these are my favorite movies and these are what I think are the best movies ever made. And there's some overlap in my top 10 list. But like this is a cross section way for you where it's like you probably enjoy watching this as much as any movie ever made. But you're also like fascinated by the semiotics of this movie. Yes. Yeah. Yes. No, I took my like pages and pages of notes.

But no, I mean, it's interesting because like I think it's a great movie. There are also things that are ridiculous and stupid about it. Yeah. But it's like if I make a list of like the top five movies that are like not necessarily greatest movies ever made, but like movies that like I love, it is definitely on there. And like movies where I'm like, these are maybe little outliers but like I'm deeply emotional about them

point break but it also is like one of those movies where everything that's stupid about it is baked into the cake like it's necessary for the things

that are like statically wonderful about it to work well yeah like I was watching it this time and I was like everything that

she plants gets paid off like there's just like so much shit where you're like oh that's a throwaway detail no it's not and there's also this weird thing where like i feel like largely because of this movie katherine

bigelow's reputation for a long time was like someone like a walter hill or something right where it's like they've had some hits they've had some flops a certain like section of like the film literati go like there's a really strong technical filmmaker there, but they work so much in genre and so much of it's kind of ostensibly corny that a certain pretentious film snob won't take them seriously. And it isn't until

a decade or so later that people go like, no, that's a real deal filmmaker and we didn't give him credit at the time. And I feel like that re-evaluation was happening right around the time that Hurt Locker came out. She had this amazing timing where everyone was like, oh we didn't really appreciate her when she was getting big studio

budgets, did we? And then she made a quote unquote serious adult movie without those genre trappings. This movie when it came out did not get great reviews. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. People were like, oh it like dumb fun. Like I feel like it's one of those movies

that critics didn't want to admit they respected because it's ostensibly stupid. But it's not. Yeah. And also the critical community in 1991 is maybe a little less, right,

like interested in trash masterpieces. But that's like something like The Warriors or whatever where when it comes out, everyone's just sort of like, okay, I see what you're doing. All right, you like Walter Hill. We get it. I just feel he's an just sort of like, okay, I see what you're doing. You like Walter Hill, we get it.

I just feel he's an interesting kind of counterpoint, but he never had his Hurt Locker. I think it's really well done, but it's also really easy to miss how well done it is, because there are the ridiculous elements. It's basically a movie about Tim Tebow becomes a cop,

and then learns to surf. It is such a tight fucking screenplay. It is so good. W. Peter Iliff. What else has he fucking done? He wrote Patriot Games after this. Really? He wrote like a bunch of other specs and sort of, you know,

not what you would think of as a great screenwriter, but he's like a Hollywood guy. But this was his breakout script. I'll call up his credit. She perhaps plussed this substantially if he hasn't made another film that's this yeah yeah i mean look if you read this on the page you wouldn't think like that's a great movie right no but while i was watching it i was like this is so fucking well structured i mean it's a well structured movie and it has a handful of like a Hall of Fame lines. But, you know, I'm just saying like the script itself is not certainly enough.

Let's see. He, yeah, he makes, he writes Patriot Games after this. He writes Varsity Blues. Okay. Oh my God. Then he writes Under Suspicion with Morgan Freeman and Gene Hackman. It's like a shitty crime movie. Then, oh boy, that's kind of it.

Yeah, that's sort of the end of him. He's still around, I guess, but I don't know. This feels like one of those things where she got the script that might have been overwritten at first and was like, we can cut a lot of this out. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

The dialogue is really good. There are all these iconic lines, but there are also a lot of scenes that, there's a dialogue is really good but it's also really bad no it is a very fine line like i mean the dialogue delivered wrong would be a torturous there's some camp to it yes high high yes high amount of there are also these like sequences of the movie that feel like battleship patenkin where it's just like these like very raw visceral images and it's only playing out on faces and like blaring music.

You know? There are like four moments like that that are just like transcendent. Yeah, there's also I think an attention to stunts like that's very careful and brilliant. Playing out on back of heads in the case of many of the surfing scenes. Right, or very far away.

Yeah, well, yeah, you tried fucking surfing. Keanu never surfed in his life. Yeah. Swayze had like a couple times. But Swayze liked to skydive. Yeah. So he did that shit. And you can, I mean, you can tell.

They had to stop him at a certain point. Swayze's face in the skydiving, whereas Keanu, it's like far away or really, really close. I mean, Keanu did some of it like he did the jump uh which is I feel like the crucial stunt which is so fucking good yeah I think that's like a top 10 stunt of all time is him jumping out of the plane I agree the copter whatever we'll get to that um but uh Swayze he he loved it so much I think they had to stop him like there was some sort of like intervention his producers or managers who were like, you're gonna

hurt yourself. Now, have either of you folks seen the remake? No. You like it. I don't. But you said the cinematography was good and I got mad at you for two weeks about it. It is. It's very true. It just feels like if you were like, hey, that person who cut off your sister's face and started wearing it, have you gotten coffee

with them? Yeah. Now, Point break the sequel. I mean the remake. Edgar Ramirez is the Swayze, right? Correct. You tell me who plays Reeves. Luke Bracey. I know that answer. Who the fuck is Luke Bracey? Are you ready for this? No, I'm not ready. I'll never be ready.

He played Cobra Commander in G.I. Joe 2 Retaliation. He replaced Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Once Cobra Commander is fully under the mask and you don't see his face, and I think they dubbed over the voice. He was the physical performer for Cobra Commander. Right.

And then he got to replace Keanu Reeves. That was his next movie. Not okay. I think he did a Nicholas Sparks film too. He's like, fine. He's like a plank of wood. Apparently he was in Hacksaw Ridge, but all of the sort of background soldiers in that one kind of blend together. He's an Australian dude. He's like a plank of wood. Apparently he was in Hacksaw Ridge, but all of the sort of background

soldiers in that one kind of blend together. He's one of those. He's an Australian dude. He's a handsome Australian dude. Sure. He's like a fourth, you know, Hemsworth. Like a seventh Hemsworth. Sure. He was in The Best of Me. That's the Sparks you're talking about. I think he was young Marsden in that.

Right. Right. And a big thing that happened was that was supposed to be Paul Walker and Paul Walker died but they'd already cast Bracey to play young Paul Walker. And they're vaguely similar. He looks more like

Paul Walker than he looks like James Marsden. Yeah. All right. Anyway. But no but the interesting counterpoint

is that the the point the Point Break remake was directed by a cinematographer. So it's just a fucking. If you cut it down to 45 minutes of IMAX stunt photography, it'd be the best movie ever made.

Well... No, because the shit in it is unbelievable. I'm sure it looks good. You mean it would be a very good looking movie. It'd be an incredible piece of film to have. We all know what the real Point Break remake is. Fast and the Furious. It came out in 2001. It's called the Fast and the Furious.

It's basically a carbon copy of this movie and it's great. I just want to set up those two pillars as counterpoints that I might reference again as we go through this movie because the things this movie gets right, and we know I love the Fast and Furious franchise, but like, I probably

I hadn't seen this movie maybe since I was like 14 on cable. Oh, sure. And I've re-watched the original Fast and Furious too many times since then yeah and so I had forgotten how much beat per beat it really follows

the original Fast and Furious yeah Fast and Furious just rips this off wholesale I mean the structure of it not obviously everything about it

but even the basic character dynamics yeah and like the fact that there's a raid halfway through where Walker has to then be a cop again

yeah you know like a lot of the yeah and then the ending it pretty much has the same beats in the same order in the same timing Yeah, and the fact that there's a raid halfway through where Walker has to then be a cop again. Yeah. You know, like a lot of the, yeah. And then the ending, obviously. It pretty much has the same beats in the same order and the same timing. Yeah, the exact same ending. Except Vin Diesel doesn't die, but you know.

But he lets him get away. He lets him drive away. Right, yeah. Well, yeah, except in Point Break when he lets him get away, you get it more because he's like, well, he's going to die. Yeah. Because like Swayze needs to suffer more

than Diesel needs to suffer. Swayze is a little scarier in this movie than Diesel is. Which is the thing I love about this movie. Right, me too. But also, talk about a good decision. Could you imagine if they ended the original Fast and Furious with Vin Diesel driving off into the middle of a wave? Yeah. Or even like driving off a cliff or whatever.

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. They could bring him back. They fucking bring everyone back in those movies. Sure. But that's a movie that apes all the major story beats of Point Break but doesn't execute them with the same level of style and finesse because Rob Cohen is no Catherine Bigelow. No.

And then Point Break, the remake, takes the exact same basic plot details and amps the stunts and the stunt shit's great and none of the character stuff works whatsoever. Doesn't it have more than surfing though? Do they do other extreme sports? That's the thing. Okay. Right. But they also, they fuck up all the core elements of what makes the story interesting,

which is they don't want to make Edgar Ramirez scary. They want to make him redeemable. So A, he's a Robin Hood figure. He steals money but gives it back to the people. Oh, no, no. You can't do that. Swayze is a Hollywood hero right now, right? This is the last good movie he ever made, which is nuts.

After an incredible run. After a sort of like brief, but intense run of stardom. Where he was directly tapped into the zeitgeist and everything he did somehow had cultural. And then after this, it's gone. Right. Never makes a hit movie again.

Which is so weird. Which is weird because this is his best performance. And he's a monster in it. Sorry. I'm showing my cards here, but I really liked him in To Wong Fu. Thanks for everything. You know what? I take it back. And that was actually a quasi-hit.

That's the one thing he makes that's a hit after this. And he gets a Golden Globe nomination. But that was him having to do the, like, you never imagine Patrick Swayze doing this performance. Let me just do Swayze really fast, please. I have thoughts on that.

I feel like his first big hit is Red Dawn in 84, but that's like, you know, he's a young guy. You don't know if he's going to end up being anything. Right. Then he's in North and South, which was this very big hit miniseries about the Civil War that launched him to fame. And then that's in 85, 86. And he's in Youngblood,

which I've actually never seen. Me neither. And then he's Dirty Dancing in 87. Which I love. Was obsessed with as a child. And then Steel Dawn and Tiger Warsaw, whatever. But then 89 Roadhouse, 90 Ghost, 91 Point Break. Yeah. And then that's all, he's doing great. I mean, Dirty Dancing and Ghost are both movies

that you would not think would be like basically the highest grosser of their year and they end up being that. Right, and that's the other crazy thing about him is not not to be binary about it but he had like two massive female focused movies and two massive male focused movies right and so he kind of set himself up straddling every it's like channing tatum way where it was like you know usually you kind of get one or the other or even if like oh you're sex symbol, you're more of like a dude's dude action star or romantic lead, you know?

So it's interesting that you bring up like Channing Tatum comparison because I don't care about most celebrities, but when Patrick Swayze died, I was like gutted. It was very hard for me. He died young too, and it was very fast. And he was by all accounts like one of the good ones. Like all the stories were always like he was the nicest guy in Hollywood.

But like one of the things that I love about him is that he was like a very masculine guy who also aggressively embraced his femininity and he was a dancer and he was super into that absolutely and to wong food thanks for everything julian umar right exactly i think he was like very comfortable with all that stuff so when you say like i mean it was pitched i was like can you believe the roadhouse dude is I think even more just him doing a comedy like an out and out comedy like that you know and it's a different

style of performance than he usually does but that certainly has been an element of his career success up until that point. I just want to give you after this movie though.

So 92 he makes City of Joy with Roland Jaffe which is like an Oscar play that's a huge bomb. Which is about like a white guy in like the Indian slums

or something. I feel like there's a kid peeing on him in the trailer or something. That sounds plausible. Then he makes Fatherhood, which is some kind of family comedy where he's like, posters him in a leather jacket with his family

but he's standing at a usual lineup. Then he makes The Unbelievable Adventures of Picos Bill in 95. Which was retitled Tall Tale. Yes. A movie I saw in theaters opening weekend.

It was a family movie. I've never seen it. He's not in it much, right? No, he's the lead. But I thought it was like that they're trying to find him or something. No, he's a big part of it.

Okay. I was weirdly obsessed with the Picos Bill lore when I was a child. I gotta say, I am not. I fucking loved Pcos Bill for whatever fucking reason. Don't even know who he is. That's a baby Nick Stahl. Right.

That movie is like Monster Squad and Nick Stahl needs to unite the tall tales like the urban legend folk heroes and it's John Henry, Pecos Bill, and Paul Bunyan. And Oliver Platt is Paul Bunyan. I forget who's John Henry and he's Pecos Bill. Roger Aaron Brown as John Henry.

I think it's like William H. Macy's first movie too. It's got a weird cast to it. William H. Macy plays a railroad magnet. And Catherine O'Hara plays Calamity Jane. Yes. Anyway, I just want to keep going. And then Tuong Phu is 95. That was a big flop.

That movie was a humongous flop. Tuong Phu is 95. Three Wishes, which is like another family movie. He made all these family movies. Which is the Martin Short, Mara Wilson movie. No, that's A Simple Wish. Right. What. Three Wishes, which is like another family movie. He made all these family movies. Which is the Martin Short, Mara Wilson movie? That's a simple wish. Right.

What's Three Wishes? I don't know. Some piece of shit movie he made. Then that's 95. He doesn't make a movie for three years. Then he makes Black Dog in 98, which is like a shitty thriller. I've never heard of any of these.

Did he do a Whoopi Goldberg comedy? That sounds right. But what would it have been? I remember him and Whoopi on a video box together. Are you talking about Ghost? Well, he was in Ghost. I know he was in Ghost, but I feel like I remember some. Maybe I just created it in my mind.

Ghost 2. Yeah, they could have done a Ghost 2. I picture, I imagine some video box where it's the two of them in front of a white background with their arms around each other. I think you're right. I just don't know what it is. And if I Google Swayze and Whoopi Goldberg, I'm just going to get ghost.

I'll see if I can find that later. But it's just interesting to me. Like, yeah, I tell you a movie like Black Dog. He made Point Break. Like, why didn't he ever have a huge hit again? Like, 10 years later is Donnie Darko, which is like when he's popping up in a movie and you're like, oh shit, Swayze.

When he essentially becomes like a Travolta career revival. Yeah, where you're like, oh yeah, except like he's good, but he's playing up in a movie and you're like oh shit Swayze and he's pretty good in that when he essentially becomes like a Travolta career revival except like he's good but he's playing such a villainous character and it's a small role but he is good and then like it kind of never goes anywhere before we started recording we were just talking about Channing Tatum and said like that guy needs a hit

and five years ago or four years ago whatever it was when he had his breakout summer it felt like this guy has cracked the code he's a movie star like he had this year where he had like a couple action movies and then a nicholas sparks film or the vow wasn't technically talked about but like you know a weepy romance drama he had magic mike he had gi joe he had 21 jump street it was like this guy established himself well with every possible audience in one summer, and he's just like set. Because he was not afraid to embrace

his feminine side and appeal directly to that audience and wasn't worried about alienating the bros. It had something for everyone. Channing was something for everyone. And since then has done a weird balance of work. He's trying, but Channing Tatum is not a movie

star is my argument like or there's certainly not the kind of guy who's going to open a movie for you right but for like a pocket i know but it's not happening like white house down didn't happen logan lucky didn't have these movies are not happening even magic mike xxl was a man though yeah quasi bomb now what disappointment in relation to the first one right so but swayze should have kept going like it should have just been straight heat. Now, Keanu. Yeah. Well, we got to get on the record.

Keanu never been in an action movie. Right. Yeah. Was this his first one? This is his first action movie. And Catherine Bigelow insists on him. Yeah. Because I think they wanted Depp.

I think they wanted Johnny Depp. That would make sense. And she was like, no, no, no. Keanu Reeves. And they were like, the Bill and Ted guy who was in Parenthood? Yeah. Like, that's your guy? Those are my two references for him prior to this movie.

Those are his two big movies. I mean, he's made a lot of movies because he has like little roles in a lot of movies. But like, you know, Bill and Ted is 89. Parenthood is 89. I Love You to Death is 90. When is Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey? 91, same year as this. As is My Own Private Idaho.

Two arguably best performances. He's in River's Edge? River's Edge is in 86. Okay. That's a good movie. Yeah. So that was like his like, you know, young angst drama. Then he does the two big, big comedies where he establishes a persona that everyone can easily mock.

Right. But he's like the, you know, right? Like that's his thing. Right. And because we think of Keanu, obviously we think of that, but we also think of Point Break and Speed and The Matrix. And he's like, he's the action guy. But this is the movie where bigelow is like i can see like this guy's perfect to play a quarterback a former quarterback right like

keanu's not small but he's not exactly he's not broad certainly no like um i mean quarterbacks supposed to be small it's it's brilliant casting that like saves the movie in a lot of ways but i also think keanu's career is so fascinating because he's always had this pattern of like he has something that hits really big in the zeitgeist and then he makes a couple really big mistakes. Everyone counts him out. And he's like, fuck it, I'm not doing it anymore. And then he, right, and then he finds the new thing. Right. Like he's had more second chances.

But every time it's like you earned this. Yeah. Right. You reminded everyone what you're capable of doing well. He's unkillable. Right. Because I think. Don't ever tell me Keanu's out again. Right. Like that's the lesson we've learned. right you reminded everyone what you're capable of doing well he's unkillable right because i think don't don't ever tell me keanu's out again right like that's 47 ronin everyone was like

100 done cooked over after 47 ronin and you know let's remember like it was really like day the earth stood still 240 like that sort of like string of nothing for them people like all right i guess keanu's he's just done. He's down for now. But that happened between Speed and Matrix, you know? Yeah, Matrix was definitely like, he's back, it's a rebirth. That happened between Point Break and Speed, certainly. I mean, you have a couple disastrous

performances there, like Dracula, which I'd say almost killed his career entirely. Well, his 91 is great because he's in My Own Private Idaho, which he's so good in but yeah then 92 is Dracula which he's horrible in. No offense Keanu. Horrific. I mean yeah we all love Keanu on this podcast. That's one of the worst performances in any major film from

a real actor. 93 is Much Ado About Nothing which he's fine in I guess. Sure. He's sort of whatever. But this is him punching a little outside of his zone. A little Buddha freak. But I think the other thing that's interesting is he always kind of like does these things that are sort of like taken seriously and then become a joke

over time. Right. Where it's like, yeah, you know, like the Matrix. It was like really cool. And then after a few years, it's like, come on. Sure.

Like that's a joke. And then now he's back in John Wick and like that's really serious. And who knows what jokes will make about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, yeah, they might run John Wick into the ground but John Wick 2 is great John Wick 3 is coming out in the summer did you see that? I saw that. They're making a tentpole which I'm a little worried about because I feel like that's a perfect January movie. But I'll say I saw like John Wick 1 opening day

with an audience that was like snickering but they were like does this movie know what it's doing? Like that kind of like a really irritating condescending kind of like laughter at a movie that's clearly heightened and knows.

Yeah. Like Point Break. I mean there are different types of movies but movies that know what they're doing. I saw John Wick 2 opening day and when John Wick first appeared on screen the entire audience burst into applause. He's a legend.

That's funny because I saw I've never seen that before. It was like burst into applause. He's a legend. That's funny because I saw- I've never seen that before. It was like Indiana Jones returning. He's the best. Yeah. Don't set him off. Don't set him off. No, but I saw- That's funny because I saw John Wick with an audience that was clearly going in being like-

It was like half full and we were like, what is- Keanu? I don't know. What is this? And by 30 minutes in, they were all in. Yeah. Where Michael Nykiss says like, oh. no, oh, he just says, oh. Yes.

Where it's like John Leguizamo's like, he killed his, you know, he killed John Wick's dog and stole his car. And he just goes, oh, and the audience just went, ah! Like, it was great. That was one of the best theater experiences I've ever had. Can I offer my key thesis on why Keanu's casting is perfect in this movie? Yes, please. Because it's outlined by the couple of movies he did right after this. He was really trying to push his persona.

Keanu started out as a stage actor in Canada and wanted to be seen as a serious actor and then got this reputation for being this kind of airhead. Yeah, pretty boy. Right, pretty boy kind of thing. And he really was like, I want to do serious parts. Let me do a Shakespeare. You know, let me be in Dracula. And he's too contemporary, right?

He just doesn't fit into these zones at all. He can't do accents, so he just always sounds like Keanu, and I think that really throws people off. And I think he has a very specific energy that you have to harness. Yeah, he's like Dane DeHaan. Right, he's a very contextual actor i'm just trying to get your goat there go on i agree with you i think dane dahan is very much like kianu i think the difference between dane dahan and kianu is that valerian shows that dane dahan can't do kianu action movie i disagree but that's we'll get to we'll get to Valeria. But I think Dane DeHaan is like,

has been... There's similar where you just, you have to find the right context. 100%. Yeah. I've seen Dane DeHaan be phenomenal in five movies and disastrous in five other movies. Sure. You know, and the ones where he's good, I don't think it's an accident. I just think it's like you need to know where to place him. Yeah.

I love Keanu to death. He's bad in some movies. He's terrible in some movies. He's misused. But also, when Keanuanu's good he's capable of doing things that no one else can do he's got a very specific screen power and he's this incredibly physical actor and it's not just like you know he's always i think we've said this before about him but when people go like you do a lot of your own stunts he always goes like i don't do stunts stuntmen own stunts. He always goes, like, I don't do stunts. Stuntmen do stunts. I do physical acting. Right, right. He's very into the role and the power of the stuntman. Right, which is why the one movie he directed is, like, a martial arts movie. Yeah, man.

Good movie. But his whole thing is he's just really good at conveying a lot through body language and sort of the ramp up, the tension before the stunts start, which is what makes an action start. Like, how well you can, can like get the audience primed for what a stuntman is then going to do in the next shot

on the back of your head. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But this movie is like right in that peak of him trying to be like, I want to be seen

as a serious adult in movies and be taken more seriously. And that's totally what Johnny Utah is going through. Like Johnny Utah is this broken guy who's like literally off the rose, right?

He should have gone pro. Sure. He didn't. He fucked up his knee. Right, you get the sense that he was like. He was all conference in Ohio State. Well, you know what this guy's life was. He was the cutest boy in high school.

He was high school quarterback. He probably killed it. He was the rare jock that was actually nice to everybody, right? Well, so actually, a question. Yeah. When he gives the speech to tyler where he's like i always did what my parents wanted me to do yada yada and then they died obviously they didn't die but how much of that do you think is supposed to be real i think

most of it yeah he was the golden boy yeah and then instead of his parents died he blew out his knees and he was like oh well what do i do with my life now right right but but i i think that is his psychological makeup and i think he's had all this pressure his entire life and has been told that he's great and all of that but really worked hard to achieve it and then his life is totally derailed the thing he thought the path he was on and it's almost like those guys who like rather than peak in high school and spend the rest of his life bemoaning what he could have been yeah he tries to find the thing he can do instead. Well, and I think he also tries to find a father figure. Yes, 100%.

Sure, that's what Bodhi is, right? Right, well, and potentially Angela. Like, I think somebody was asking me if I thought this movie was homoerotic, and I don't. I don't either. I think that's a mischaracterization. I think it's bromantic. Yeah, it's not. And I think it's There's the one scene where they're wrestling around with each other on the sand, but yeah, no, it's bromantic yeah and i think it's there's the one scene where they're

wrestling around with each other on the on the sand but yeah no it's not exactly well it's only homoerotic in like and that you like you're already saying the female gaze like it is an erotic movie about it's an erotic movie and it is mostly obviously about men interacting with other men i also think the distinction i would make is that i think it's a very intimate movie yes yeah and i think in movies where men are intimate with each other people go like oh it's homoerotic because you're not used to seeing men having anything more than like a back pat like yeah good work out there buddy kind of like relationship but it's it's really about like father-son relationships yes but we don't understand intimate father-son relationships.

Right, right. So it feels like, well, this is the way, like, why are men acting like this? Do they want to fuck each other? Right. I get what you guys are saying. There's a lot of them

looking at each other and being like, I like you, man, you know? Right, but there's also, I mean, the crucial moment here in this movie is that he jumps out of the plane to grab Bodhi.

Sure. And then can't kill him. Right. But I think, yes. Yeah. There's a dynamic between the two of them. And it's a love story. It is a movie about two guys who love each other.

It's just not in a purely sexual sense. But it's also a very erotic movie. Right. I think. I think it's an erotic film. Yes. So I feel like it's this conflation, and you kind of touched on it, that A, we're not used to seeing men being objectified. Right.

And B, we're not used to seeing men being intimate. Right. So that this movie does both. It's like, oh, well, it's gay. And it's like, no, it's a woman who's objectifying men. Right. And also unveiling their intimacy that is not sexual. Right.

their intimacy that is not sexual. Right. And I think with a male director, you either would have had that intimacy couched with some level of, like, you know, arm's length humor or whatever, or they would push it even further and genuinely make it homoerotic. Like, that would be the gag, you know?

Right, yeah. In a weird way. I don't know. I don't know. I could see, but I like what you guys are saying. I just don't think a movie has to be ridiculously homoerotic like Top Gun

or whatever I agree with that to you know have a sort of it's a romantic I think there is a romantic dynamic between Bodhi and Johnny

because Bodhi is seducing Johnny into a life but I like the father son angle yeah I mean the romance is not necessarily eroticism

exactly that's the distinction is like i think oh right top gun is sexual and this is romantic yes what top gun is about ego right and how man's ego is man's sex like that's what that movie is about and how it's confidence in a little ring like they're all just going to start bumping around right and like like top i mean laurie petty ben i want to bring you in now because I feel like you have some thoughts about Lori Petty. Ben Dusser? No, maybe there are tank girls in this movie.

Poet Laureate? The Haas? Oh, yeah. The Peeper? Go on. Tiebreaker? Yeah. Birthday Benny?

Dirtbag Benny? Right. The Fuckmaster? Yeah. The Meat Lover? The Fart Detective? Yes. Not Professor Crispin?

No, don't call me that. Graduate to certain tells over the course of different miniseries? Yep. Producer Ben Kenobi. Kylo Ben. Ben Sate. Yeah. Sate Bennington.

Yes. Ben H. Allen. Yep. A. LeBenz with a dollar sign. That's true. Warhawks. Yeah. Purdue or Bane.

Wait, Purdue or Bane? Yeah. You didn't know that was Tank Girl? I didn't realize that was Tank Girl. Yeah. I want to talk about Lori Petty for a second. I do too. She was like the 90s girl.

Early 90s girl early 90s girl for her to do Point Break and then League of Their Own and Back to Back Years should have been like she should have had

a humongous career but she's such a specific type she's a good actress but you know she's her thing she's got her thing she's got a great sort of

I don't know attitude yeah punk exactly I also don't think it's coincidental that her two big performances both came from

female directors sure yeah because I think she's exactly the kind of actress that a male director wouldn't necessarily

hire for this movie three good performances what's the third Tank Girl which is also directed by a woman but was a big flop

sure but she's good in it yeah but those three movies were like her three big films. She's also in Free Willy. Oh, my God. Yeah, she's pretty good.

Everyone's good in that, right? I mean, it's not like a poorly acted film. So I want to argue that I think that Laurie Petty's character is the moral center of this movie. Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah. I think so. Go on, sorry. I think there are reads that you could make of this movie, and I'm sure there are dudes who watch this movie. Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think so. Well, because I think there are reads that you could make of this movie, and I'm sure

there are dudes who watch this movie and they're like, oh, yeah, this is amazing. I want to be like Bodhi. I want this. Or like who idolize like a lot of the masculine qualities. But I think it's a movie. It's very nihilistic that is both celebrating and also condemning masculinity. And I think, you know, Johnny Utah is not the hero of the movie. Johnny Utah is a dude who

is searching for a father figure, can't find it in the police force, can't find it in this surfing cult leader. He consistently makes very poor decisions throughout this movie. Kind of ends at a standstill where he's like, well, I'm not going to align with the cops. I'm not going to be a cop.

But I'm not going to, I'm going to let Bodhi kill himself. I'm not going to save with the cops. I'm not going to be a cop. But I'm not going to let Bodhi kill himself. I'm not going to save him. But the only person who, yeah, like Lori Petty, Tyler, she is very upset about being lied to. And she is into surfing, but you don't get any sense that she is even aware of the bank robbing. She just loves the purity of being in nature. And I think, I mean mean it's telling to me that in the last scene he's like yeah i still surf every day yes like it's about surfing being

this powerful thing that gets perverted by bodhi and it does right and even though bodhi doesn't bodhi knows it's getting perverted he just won't admit it like even near the end of the movie he's like i'm sorry i mean you know uh what's, what's the fucking Lee Turgenson character called? Rosie. Rosie's a wild man. Like, I didn't mean to, you know, like, he's still trying to, like, cover his ass about it. It's sort of like bad Buddhism, too, a little bit. Yeah, right.

Because the name Bodhi is based on Bodhisattva. Bodhisattva. Bodhisattva. Yeah. Oh, wait. Oh. Which is like a term in Buddhism for someone who's, like, sort of on their way to being enlightened like a Buddha. Which is like a term in Buddhism for someone who's like sort of on their way to being enlightened like a Buddha. Which.

On the path. On the path. Exactly. Ties in nicely to another Keanu performance as Siddhartha in Little Buddha. Yes. Not a bad performance in an. An okay movie. But I think there's also something to.

There is no attempt, and I think this is what's great about the casting of Lori Petty, who is like a very steely actress with a very odd energy because she sounds like a rug rat. She's got a funny voice. Right. Yeah, she does. She sounds like Chucky Finster. Right. And she's very slight, but she has this like anger to her that I think those three really good performances

tapped into and I think she's very high status in this movie like she always she wins the football game right and she's the intellectual

superior of everyone she's talking to in every scene but I want to get back to what Lux was saying about just for a second because I do feel like

this movie has one crucial action sequence in the middle right that is a badass action sequence where tons of people get shot there's a lawnmower a naked girl beats the shit out of johnny utah like but like it is a pointless expression of like police you know yes because it just turns out it's like now you fucking idiots like sizemore was here the whole time and it was just everything just you just fucked it up and now we won't find out who's you know like and it's like an awesome sequence perfectly directed that's

so cool to watch and then at the end it's like well that was completely worthless like what a waste of all our masculine energy and it's also interesting that that whole thing is literally set off by Keanu getting punched on a surfboard yes yes that's right he gets punched on a surfboard and then he's like this is this dude is bad punched on a surfboard, and then he's like, this suit is bad.

It's got to be these guys. And Anthony Kiedis, I mean, he's got a bad look in this movie. It takes one look at Anthony Kiedis, and he's like, this guy has to be LBJ or whatever. I mean, he should be arrested for that haircut. Oh, boy. That is an arrestable offense.

The Keanu thing here is that he is trying so hard to be a good cop, which uses the earnest energy he had in this time period of like really wanting to be a better actor or a more diverse actor or whatever it is. And also the fact that he is, there's something so gentle about Keanu. Yeah. Like, even when he's yelling, there's, like, this serenity to him. You know, which I think is what other people, like, when he's miscast, reads as spaciness. Sure.

Or a vacancy. You know, it's that he's very internalized. Yeah. He's very zen. He's very zen. Yeah, yeah. So I just love that thing. And then the other thing is he actually

like most undercover sting operation we have to infiltrate this world movies you're like they would never buy this guy they would suss him out as a cop immediately and Keanu shows up and you're like of course he fits into this and the Gary Busey counterpoint is like when Gary Busey's at the beach wearing the shirt

with the sunglasses you're like well this is why he could never crack the case because he looks like a fucking narc he when Gary Busey's at the beach wearing the shirt with the sunglasses you're like well this is why he could never crack the case because he looks like a fucking narc he's Gary Busey like even when he's like don't catch on my radio it's like the thing that I love about the Busey character is I think in a lesser movie it would be like

not even just Busey was right all the time but like Busey cracks the case and he's just been like undersold and in this it's like no he sucks he sucks he's like he fucking blows the stake out because of his

reading Marmaduke and he's and he's fundamentally the wrong person for the case do you know who plays the the

in the remake who plays that Ray Winstone I could see that is he good well but he's just the problem is he's just too angry like he's plays that? Ray Winstone. I could see that. Is he good? Well, but he's just... The problem is he's just too angry. Like, he's doing surly Ray Winstone.

Part of what's great in this is that, like, Gary Busey, like, thinks he's the fun cop. Yeah. Like, he thinks he's the star of his own movie. Yes. You know? He thinks this is his story. Right. Yes, I agree.

Oh, there's one... Go, no, go ahead. No, I was just going back a little bit. Sorry, just to the stakeout scene, because you mentioned the naked lady. And I think that both the naked lady and the lady in lingerie are like, I mean, was there a studio note that was like,

put some naked women in here. I don't think so. I think Bigelow wants a naked woman to beat the shit out of Keanu Reeves. You don't think so? She beats the shit out of him. He doesn't land a punch on her. She is naked.

She knocks him to the ground. He gets back up. She knocks him down again. That's a good point. There is no ambiguity to what happens to Johnny Utah in that scene. Because I just got distracted.

Seriously, I feel very strongly about this. I got distracted by the shower spying, but you do make a good point that there's like, these women are taking him down. Yeah.

Johnny Utah doesn't win a single fight in this movie he's really bad at fighting he's bad at it he's good at shooting his gun in the opening montage where he's

and into the air but he fights the surfer guys and it's sort of you know the sort of decoy surfer guys and at first

it looks like he's doing okay the red hot chili peppers and then they beat the shit out of him in the stakeout he fights a naked woman who kills, I mean, kicks his ass. Yeah. And then when he fights Bodhi, he never wins that either.

Absolutely not. This is not a movie where Johnny Utah has got the skills to solve all of this. Right. And he fucks up at the bank robbery. Yes. Oh, yeah. He doesn't do, he's no help. Right.

People die. Yeah. You know, he's just help right people die yeah you know he's just shitty he's really shitty yeah I love it though oh yeah

no no that's it's good that he's shitty yeah because it's not like a law and order movie it's like oh yeah

cops are fucked up all these guys are assholes he's also 25 yeah he's young dumb and full of cum he's a blue face especially he takes the skin off chicken

he eats the donuts yeah he eats the donut he takes the skin off chicken. He eats the donuts. Yeah. He eats the donut. He takes the skin off the chicken, but he eats the donut. He does eat the donut. John C. McGinley doesn't like that. That's the Scrubs dude, right? Yeah.

That guy is so good at being just like a dick who's mad. Yeah, like a pencil, like a living pencil with glasses. It's just like, there's that. I remember seeing some interview with John C. McGinley where he said when he got the script for Scrubs to audition in parenthesis it said imagine a John C. McGinley type

and he was like did they offer this to me and it was like no it's just like an open audition and he had to go through like seven rounds of it and he kept on being like guys you wrote it? He should be yeah I mean obviously he had Scrubs and I'm sure that set him for life. But like Delroy Lindo plays this part in the remake, which like once again, Ray Winston,

Delroy Lindo, great actors, but minus that like comedic edge. Yeah. You know, you're talking about two great performances, Busey and McGinley that are, you know, people are going to think about when you're playing the role. So it's hard to really, you know, beat them, especially if you're in a shit movie. Sure, but also, yeah, a self-serious movie. So the plot of this movie is that there are bank robbers,

the ex-presidents, who rob banks, who are good. Those freaking masks. The masks are great. Unbelievable. And just like the spiel. Like, oh, just the scene

where they're getting ready in the car. Like, all the detail on that. Just like shot of the abs, pulling on the gloves. So good. And the fact that they stay in character too. The fact that they each like have their like. So they all have their impressions that they do. Right.

Except for Carter. He doesn't do much. Yeah. Good bit commitment. No, I agree. It's a great bit. Carter. There is that scene where they cut to Carter when everyone else is like loading the money

into the bag and he's just farming peanuts. He's planting peanuts in the dirt outside the bank. Putting on a sweater. Giving a sermon. I just got a Google report. Ben just Googled bank robberies 2017. Just giving you a Google report right now. That's a new segment on the show.

How many Reagan masks were involved? I'm just Googling. I just am interested to see if people are still robbing banks. It does seem like a bad idea. Yeah. It seems like it's really hard now. Yeah. Because you go. Well, it does seem like a bad idea. Yeah. It seems like it's really hard now. Yeah. Cause you go into a bank,

you're like, nobody has any money. Like, right. Like, I mean, I guess they have their little, like little cash registers,

but it's not like, like these days you want to get money out. They like, seems to like shoot out of a slot, like from somewhere far away. Yes. Uh, yes.

Which is one of the things I liked a lot about Logan. Lucky is like, Oh, this is a very smart place to rob. Yes. Yeah, totally. As long as you can, uh, right. Yes, which is one of the things I liked a lot about Logan Lucky is like, oh, this is a very smart place to rob. Yes. Yeah, totally. As long as you can make a gummy bear bomb. Did you like that movie?

I haven't seen Logan Lucky. I loved it. Although, thinking about the masks, I remember one of my favorite bits in Baby Driver is when they're supposed to get the Mike Myers masks. Yes. And he shows up with Austin Powers masks. Yeah, that's a great bit in Baby Driver. That's my favorite gag. That's outrageous that that's your favorite gag.

I'll never- Not the one that you predicted would be my favorite gag. Great gag in Baby Driver. But there are two things. One, watching this movie, I was like, why don't people use masks in films more? Yeah. And so often I feel like when you have masked characters people do the wrong thing which is whether it's because they're directed that way or the actors have that

instinct which is to over physicalize everything to make up for the fact that your face is invisible but this movie the fact that he's just moving normally and he's stuck with this one static like grinning expression is unbelievable i think it takes a really good actor to pull off a mask like i agree with that like one of my problems with ant-man is that i don't think paul rudd is a good voice actor so every time he's in the ant-man suit it feels like a poorly voiced video game to me paul rudd's also a really good face actor right you're losing a lot if you cut out his face my only counter that is I agree with you on Ant-Man I do think he's better at it in Civil War

so maybe there's some sort of progression that he's making or maybe they just had to fucking rush Ant-Man which is more my guess they had to do that shit fast go to voice actor school come on Rudd here's a microphone we'll Skype you in just say your Ant-Man lines

but I also think it's weird when you think about Come on, Red. Here's a microphone. We'll Skype you in. Just say your Ant-Man lines. Right. But I also think it's weird when you think about both times that Fox has tried to do Fantastic Four there was this reticence to putting Doctor Doom in the full mask for too much of the movie because they were like, well, but then you can't see the guy's face. Which is just fine. Then fucking cast

a nobody then because why are you casting a star you want to see? Like massive movie star Julian McManon. Julian McManon. Okay, I'm sorry. But I feel like a good actor with a well-designed mask would be the scariest fucking thing in the world because every time they cut to a close-up of Swayze

in the Reagan mask grinning, it's like terrifying. That great shot of his eyes is unbelievable. You know, in the LA Basin scene. I mean, he's got really expressive eyes, which helps a lot. And they, I think she also, she knows how to shoot it and he's a good enough actor to pull it off. Like his whole spiel. And he's a very physical actor. He's able to convey a lot with his body, much

like Keanu. And his voice. Yes. I also think the master stroke is cutting the slit in his mouth so that when he talks, the mouth moves a little. It has that weird Muppet jaw thing. Oh, I hadn't even noticed that. But yeah, that is key. Because the other ones don't do that.

He's the only one who has to talk extensively. But he yells. Everyone else is just, they have their jobs. Also, I have a question about his gang. Are they actual actors or are they just stuntmen? Because I feel like you see some of them in the skydiving. Two of them are surfers. James LeGrow is a real actor.

He's great in this movie. The other two are just surfers she liked. I had a feeling that they were probably either surfers or just stuntmen because I was like they don't actually act. I'm pretty sure you see them doing the physical things. They're just like the dudes who just hang out there.

So yeah, John Philbin and I think the other one's like Bojess Christopher. They're not actors. James LeGrow is great in this movie. He really has the California surfer dude thing like on lock, I think. LeGrow's the one who dies on the plane, right? LeGrow's the one. No, he dies in midair. That's what I like about it.

Because he jumps out, and then when he lands, you're like, that guy's dead. Who's the dude who has the knife to, like, Lee Turgenson? Lee Turgenson. Was he the brother on Weird Science, the TV show? Great question. I think of him as, he's from Oz. I mean, I feel like that's his biggest, he's a beacher in Oz.

But let's see, was he on Weird? While we're doing that, I will say, Ben nailed that. One other weird, very, very minor,

the kid in the surfing shop when he goes to buy a surfboard, I had to look up because I was like, I know that guy, I know that guy. He is one of the brothers from Don't Tell Mom

the Babysitter's Dead. Wow. We are plumbing the depths right now. I don't tell mom the babysitter's dead wow we are we are plumbing the depths right now i don't know yeah i love that movie sorry that's another amazing 90s movie i've never seen that movie oh i always get don't tell mom the babysitter's dead and serial mom confused even though they're very different movies yeah i mean one is by john waters and the other is a by someone who is a feminist movie. Is this seminal feminist movie of the 90s? Lee Turgison.

Lean in. You also. I love how he's just looking at bank robbery reports right now. Lee Turgison is also in Wayne's World and Wayne's World 2. He's the guy who's like, I love you. And he can't stop saying he wants to get him going. The guy who's vomiting in the back of the car during Wicked Man's Rhapsody. But I mostly think of him as Beecher and Oz, where he's like a terrifying neo-Nazi.

But you see, like, the opening sequence of this movie, right? Like, this is only coming—she makes two movies in between the Loveless and this. And Loveless is like a very academic semiotics experiment, right? Sure. And by this, she's fully figured out how to just, like just metastasize that into the body of a movie that is just narratively exciting and enjoyable on a surface level as well. And the opening sequence is just, I think, cross-cutting between these very serene, romantic shots of Bodhi surfing and Keanu in the rain shooting at these targets. It's like, these are these places of zen for these two guys. But where it's like Bodhi is actually experiencing something transcendent,

Keanu's just getting off on the fact that he's successful. He's good at it. Because at the end the guy gives him the big thumbs up and it's like, okay, he didn't peak in high school. The quarterback found a new thing to be great at. You might say he's getting approval from a father figure. Right. thing to be great at. You might say he's getting approval from a father figure.

Right. Also, I just love that it begins and ends in the rain. Yes. All good action movies are rain dependent. This movie was going to be

called Johnny Utah. I'm glad they didn't go with that. Then it was going to be called Riders on the Storm after the door song. And they decided that that was a bad idea because it's a door song and this movie has nothing to do with the doors. And so let's forget it. And so then they were like, what's a cool surfing term? They go through their cool, much like in Under Siege 2 Dark Territory where they're like,

what's like a cool train term? Like someone's like, there's a thing called dark territory and they were like great great that's the title they found this term point break and they were like

perfect that sounds like a great action movie even though it's about like a specific like rock outcropping you know Cameron was executive producer on this

yeah where was this this movie comes out well actually I don't want to spoil the box carry on where was this within their relationship

I always forget what period of time well I mean I mean Cameron's off making Terminator 2 when she's off making this and Cameron's falling in love with Linda Hamilton so this is like the end I mean they divorce in 1991

when this movie comes out but I think like pointedly she makes Blue Steel right before this and Blue Steel is like a big flop uh 89 uh yeah sure yes right and and this feels like cameron going to fox and being like i'm telling you she's fucking capable of doing this yeah and her leaving it all on the dance floor because like she's gotta have a hit you know right but this feels like a movie where she's gotta have a hit you know and it's so good right but this feels like a movie where she's like full force like I'm gonna fucking

make this thing work yes I want audiences to love this movie but this movie was not a huge hit it was a decent hit it was a solid

like it was a double and then it just sort of quickly I think grew and grew and grew right but yeah

I mean she marries Cameron in 89 okay when Blue Steel's coming out and she divorces him in 91. So it was not a long relationship. And they both made their biggest movies to date during it. So I don't know how much time they were spending together. Sure.

Because if you think about it, they're married from 89 to 91. They're probably both shooting in 90. Right. I don't know. Right. And the Gayale and heard marriage doesn't end that long before that right you know james cameron's love life is uh it's weird yeah i mean because yeah it's like sharon williams 78 to 84 gale and heard 85 to 89 like we're talking

about marriages here bigelow bigelow 89 to 91 now linda hamilton is 97 to 99 but they were together they were together they were together for years. And then they get married and divorce almost immediately. The marriage is the end of the relationship. And then Susie Amos, 2000. So it's like they always abut each other. But then after Susie Amos, that's

it. She's the one who's like, go diving. It's fine. Surf into the middle of the wave. David Lynch is a guy who has one of those weird ones too where like I think he was

with his script supervisor well he's he had the wife who he made like Eraserhead with right Mary Fisk is that right

right but didn't she right he had a 20 year relationship where they were never married and they had a child. And then they finally got married and got divorced within like nine months for irreconcilable differences. Where it just feels like sometimes if couples wait that long to get married, getting married.

You're talking about Mary Sweeney. That's what I'm talking about. His editor. His editor. There we go. Okay. Who I believe, I think still works with it maybe i believe so no no yes but they were together for a very long time had a child didn't get married got married

and then suddenly divorced right right um let's get back to bigelow like stop talking about dudes fucking around sorry oh wait so so the thing that i was going to tell you a bit of context that was left out excuse me i'm a connoisseur of context. Please serve it up. And yet, no. So when I was prepping to be on this podcast, I was at a dinner party with some of my artist friends who are both graduates of the Whitney Independent Study Program. And I was just talking about Point Break, blah, blah, blah,

Catherine Bigelow, and they're like, and I always have this question, which I had posed to you at one point, where when Catherine Bigelow won the Oscar, I remember somebody was like, is Catherine Bigelow an amazing female filmmaker or just a tough guy in drag? And just talking about like, oh, yeah, she's the first female director to win an Oscar, but all her movies are dude movies. Which is a question for me because it's like, is she strategically doing that because she knows she'll get attention? Or is she drawn to this and just getting rewarded? So I'm just posing this question to my friends.

And they're like, well, did you know she is also a Whitney ISP graduate? And they're like, and she was there in like the 80s, I think. But the curriculum is the same. And they're like, it's very Marxist, like, ar like arty downtown new york like like my friend's final project for it they it was a performance art thing and they were like wearing a bikini and they were like the whitney isp being like bound and beaten by someone in a suit who was mr whitney so it was about the artist being tortured by capital but also needing cap so that's a whitney isp thing uh-huh and then for katherine bigelow to come out of that i was like this is so so i about the artist being tortured by capital, but also needing capital. So that's a Whitney ISP thing.

And then for Catherine Bigelow to come out of that, I was like, this is... So I have a theory that ties into all of this. Right. Which is, you know, The Loveless is very much a movie about masculinity. Yeah. Right?

Near Dark is kind of like, even handed on the gender spectrum right? No that's very I think that's very much a movie about masculinity as well it's a cowboy movie. Sure but sort of from a female perspective even character wise do you know what I'm saying? Yes yes yes and then Blue Steel is like I'm gonna make a

female action movie like she clearly had this interest in action filmmaking and tried to make Jamie Lee Curtis an action star, which seems like it should have worked. Yeah, why didn't that work? Right, and then it's a big flop. She's always been

a weird box office draw Jamie Lee Curtis. She endures, but there's only certain kinds of movies that she's opened, if that makes sense. I don't know. She's a funny one. In terms of her movie star persona, she feels like she should have worked as an action star. Right?

She matches that kind of energy. Yeah. I think if Blue Steel had been successful, she would have done female-led action movies for the rest of her career. I think that's what she would have done. And I think when that movie bombed, it was like one of those write-off things of like,

well, there you go. Women can't direct successful movies. There you go. People don't want to see women in action films. Right. So I think Point Break was very deliberately a like reaction to like,

fuck it. I can make a boy action movie. Yeah. You know? And then I think the die was cast. I think she knew this was like her Hail Mary pass to get to still play

at like a high level within the studio. And then when this worked, it was like, oh, she's good at deconstructing masculinity, which had always been an interest of hers.

Right. And that becomes her thing because she doesn't stay in that lane. Right. You know? Yeah. But after this, she makes, well, Forgetting Strange Days, which is her fabulous masterpiece that we'll get to. You know, she did make the Boys in the Boat movie. Right.

And then she made the Bomb Boys movie. Right. You know, and then, you know, a K-19 could have used more of? Meatball subs. Less nuclear subs. It takes until after she wins an Oscar to make another female-driven movie. And even that, as we will talk about, she sort of stumbles into by accident. Like, that movie wasn't intended as one.

And then when Osama Bin Laden got murked, they decided to retool it around this female character. They decided to retool it around this female character. But there is that ghettoization of like what has existed for decades is like these are the types of movies that women can direct. Like the way the studios see it. And Catherine Bigelow I think always had ambitions beyond those obvious genres, which like most women unfortunately only get hired to make romantic comedies. And it's usually because they wrote them. You know, they're able to, like, attach themselves after selling the script. And I think she just didn't want to be stuck with, like,

well, what do I, do I do a Kathleen Turner action movie next? You know? When the first one didn't work, I think that sort of, like, set her path as, like, a reactionary kind of, like, I need to survive within this system. Yeah, which I, I mean, again, like, as someone who thinks a lot about women writers and women behind the scenes, it's, like, it's always this question of, like, well, thinks a lot about women writers and women behind the scenes,

it's always this question of, well, do we want more women writers and directors because that gets us more women on screen, or do we want it because we just want women to work? And I want both. Yeah. So she's an interesting thing to me where it's like, yeah, she's a woman getting paid, making movies, winning awards, and she's always telling men's stories. But I think she does it in a twisted way.

Yeah, she definitely twists it. But there's also, I think, this thing that's like, it reminds me of Paul Verhoeven's blockbuster movies where it's like he's able to comment on American culture better than any American because he's one step removed from it. Right. And he knows how to play into it and make it like function on that proper level but there's just a little bit of objectivity

that like adds this whole different air to it. Right. And she is able to sort of make this commentary on like why masculinity is terrible. Sure. Sure. But also. masculinity is terrible. Sure, sure. But also trying to present different types of men

and different types of male relationships. Okay, so basic thrust of the movie after this opening sequence. Five hours in. An hour in, we're just going to start the plot. We've been doing a lot of deep thinking, though. There's bank robbers. There's Johnny Utah. Setting the stage for people to really get the plot. All right. So we've been doing we've been doing a lot of deep thinking though. There's bank robbers. It's Johnny Utah setting the stage

to really get the fresh out of the Academy. He's an Ohio State quarterback. Fresh out of Quantico. He's partnered up with

Angelo Pappas played by Gary Busey going full Busey and Pappas has this long running case of bank robbers, the ex-presidents,

who they're in and out in 90 minutes, like 27 banks in three years. 90 seconds. 90 seconds, sorry. Never go to the vault. They never go to the vault. They just rip the cash drawers and they leave.

And the only thing they do is they moon the camera. And leave sex wax behind. And because they moon the camera and have a tan line, they leave sex wax behind. And because they moon the camera and have a tan line, they leave sex wax behind and then there's some sort of weird clay or dirt or whatever. Sand.

Sand residue. He's convinced they're surfers, which everyone mocks him for. They treat it like it's a Bigfoot sighting. Like you're a dumb fucking surfer. Right, right, right. But Keanu takes to it. And Busey doesn't like Keanu. He doesn't like the cut of this guy's jib. He hates that he's being gifted the rookie kid as his partner.

As he tells him while blindfolded at the pool. Yes. He's getting the short stand. I love that scene because Keanu, Johnny's just like, you know, like totally, he gets it. He doesn't, he doesn't, he has no chip on his shoulder about it. And also he's a people pleaser. Like he's a people pleaser. I'll win this guy over eventually.

That's why I like it. He's like, he's not like P win this guy over eventually i like it he's like but that falls into the eagerness you're a genius he's like surfers cool i'll be a surfer you know like fine just point me at it baby but that's why the eagerness of piano as an actor is so effective here yeah initially he's kind of like fuck like there's the scene where he's in the suit walking around with the surfboard and he's like what am i gonna do just like sure be like sticking out on the beach and they're like no you have to go fucking surf uh yeah so he he does need to be won over initially and then when he's first surfing he's like bad and not really into it yeah yeah right he doesn't ever get great at it either which i love laurie petty's the initial draw is just yeah what what's my in with her yeah you know um so he pretty quickly gets mixed up with

bode and his gang because bode recognizes him as a quarterback which is insane there's no way he'd recognize what is a blue flame does anybody know it's your idea well it doesn't that it just means new right like oh really is that like i don't know they keep talking like you're a blue flamer blue flame special that's what they call him. I think it's just. But yeah, but Angelo says a blue flamer too. No, yeah. Blue flaming.

Let me see. You know what's crazy about how point for point Fast and Furious rips Point Break off? Do they also refer to someone as a blue flame special? No, but the meeting of Jordana Brewster and Paul Walker is the same where she's behind the counter at the walk-up sandwich place who he's trying to flirt with and she's like, I'm just doing my job. Other than the Bodhi and the, what's her name, Tyler being ex-lovers rather than brother and sister, the dynamic is exactly the same and the introduction scene is exactly the same. Yeah, it is. You know what movie I feel like is spiritually connected

to Point Break, if not plot connected and also has Vin Diesel in it? Boiler Room. Sure. And Boiler Room also one of my top five. Interesting.

Love Boiler Room. My boy Vin's good in that. Yeah. That was my first Vin Diesel experience so I never understood why nobody thought he could act. Yeah. Because he Vin's good in that. Yeah. That was my first Vin Diesel experience, so I never understood why nobody thought he could act. Yeah. Because he's so good in that. Definitely could.

I always just thought of it as Blue Flame being the first part of the flame. I don't know. I don't know why I've never thought this through at all. Google's not. No, Google's just like, that's the line from Point Break. Weird.

Weird. So it's not like a surfing term. No, well, it would be a cop term. Right. The cop calls him that. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. And so I guess the first half of this two-hour movie,

it's pretty on the nugget two hours and moves really fast, I think, is he's like becoming friends with Bodhi and his crew, but he's definitely sure that these other surfers, including Anthony Kiedis, are the ex-presidents. Right. Because they're very aggro. He doesn't even consider the fact that it could be Bodhi because he loves Bodhi and his crew. And you know everyone watching the movie is like, it'spresidents. Right. Because they're very aggro. He doesn't even consider the fact that it could be Bodhi because he loves

Bodhi and his crew. And you know everyone watching the movie is like, it's Bodhi. Right. Right. But it's not even that

Bodhi's hiding it so well. It's just that he's so in love with them that he's just like, I want to live this life. I'm not going to question this at all. Well,

I think he's conflating his love of surfing with his love of, I mean, Bodhi's basically a cult leader. Yes. And Bodhi represents what is appealing to him about surfing and that lifestyle.

Yes. Uh, as Bodhi says later in the movie, it's not about the money. It's about us against the system. The system that kills the human spirit. We stand for something here to show those guys that are inching their way on the freeways and their metal coffins that the human spirit's still alive.

And David did that for memory. No, I totally read that off the, I just love metal coffins that the human spirit's still alive. And David did that from memory? No, I totally read that off the, I just love metal coffins. Yeah. It's so fucking 90s. It's great. That's what's so great about the character too,

is he just like, and Swayze plays this so well. He's just this like gumbo of like, like you said, like vague Buddhist shit. Right. Kind of fuck the system shit, like Gen X nonsense.

He's got sexy blonde hair. But the level of rationalization that he just fundamentally continues until the system shit, like Gen X nonsense. He's got sexy blonde hair. But the level of rationalization that he just fundamentally continues until the very end, believing that he's the hero, even when he's killed most of his friends in the process. And Busey,

and he's taken Lori Petty hostage. Right, his ex-girlfriend hostage at knife point. And he's still like, look at her making a statement. Right. Not to get political, but I would argue that there is, one of the things that frustrates me about our current political environment is that I think there are a lot of angry.

You like the president, though, right? No, I'm not even talking about the president. OK. Angry. We do. We do like Don, right? Oh, OK. Of course.

Yeah. No, there's a lot of angry, adrenaline fueled young men on both sides who I think just want to fuck shit up and are like, and here is my rationale. Like, I'm going to punch Nazis because, like, this is the thing. Or, like, I'm going to, like, go fuck up these people because yada yada, my whatever they all write. A bunch of Ricky T. Jokers running around. Right, Ricky T. Jokers. But Ricky T. Joker knows that he's a nihilist, whereas Bodhi doesn't. Is in denial.

Bodhi's like, no, no, I'm against the system. And really, he's just an adrenalineist whereas Bodhi doesn't. He's in denial. Bodhi's like no no I'm against the system and really he's just an adrenaline junkie who's doing all this shit but he's like no no no but like I'm doing it for a reason. And he's a means to an end guy who doesn't actually have an end. That's what I like about it. The only time he ever explains his philosophy is

that monologue I just read and that is well after we know that he's like a total fuck yeah right and his plan his ultimate plan seems to be i'm gonna get all this money we're gonna rip off all these banks and then i'm gonna go to australia and totally die in this insane storm yeah so i can ride the biggest wave there ever is he doesn't even ride the wave well probably because bigelow's or whoever is like well how the fuck do we shoot like look at this this is insanity we can't put a person in this right yeah so they just like have this like very far away shot yeah that's not a person it might be but like i mean they only get like what five

seconds you're saying it's a dummy they just threw a dummy i would love to know how they shot that scene. They didn't shoot it in Australia. They shot it in Oregon. It's like a car lot thing. It's just like, Bodhi's plan never makes any sense. Apart from the 50 year storm. You've got to get to the 50 year storm. In the remake, it's like a perfect storm. Like, CGI, like, massive, insane

wave. I guess that's not surprising. Although, I would argue that his original plan before he goes balls out does kind of make sense. Just rip off the banks, move around. That's true. It's like a seasonal worker. It's just work is illegal. He's like an athlete.

He's going to leave it all on the field. Here's my question. We've covered a lot of the plot, actually, because in the middle of the movie, there's the big raid and Sizemore's there. Early Sizemore, who's later going to be in Strange Days and absolutely just eat the whole scenery. He's going big in this, but he's really good. He's great. Sizemore, when he's good. Yeah, but you need him because that is a fulcrum point of the movie where it's just like all of this was for nothing.

Yeah, fuck, you're just an idiot. You're trying to solve a problem that, like, you don't even understand, right? You know, Keanu's just like, if I just get the guys, then yeah, that'll be great, right? You know? Right. And go back to surfing. He doesn't even know, right, that he's kind of being suckered in by Bodhi, like, sort of subconsciously. Sure.

For the first half of the movie. And there's a weird, like, and I think this gets to the self-awareness of the movie of what it's doing. There were a couple moments I noticed where a, like, a featured background person

has a prominent reaction to what the movie stars in the movie are doing. Yeah. There's when, like, Busey and, um,

uh, Keanu are walking through the hallways of the police station with the surfboard for the first time. Oh, I love that scene. And there's a guy who walks past them and kind of bumps into them and takes an extended look.

They don't cut to a close-up. It's a two-shot. It's like a walk and talk, but he's just like, what the fuck are these guys doing? What is this dumb adventure they're on? Right. Why aren't they solving actual, like dealing with fucking real shit right now? And when he gets into

the hand-to-hand fight with like the lawnmower or whatever that piece of lawn equipment is. It's a lawnmower. It's a lawnmower. You keep on seeing the next door neighbor

in the background who's like, what's this fucking action movie going on in my backyard? I also love the lawnmower that like, when it's introduced,

you're just like, why the, what the fuck is going on? And then it's like, both the noise distortion so that he can't communicate and then also the weapon that almost kills him which is like it's it's like everything in this movie is like set up payoff you know like like his knee is like checkoff's gun you know but also just the fact that like if she introduces a visual element

with a weird specificity that might just look like a Tony Scott level like show all the details insert shot like a flourish it's like no this is going to serve a function practically even the butt comes back even the butt comes back what happens after is the skydiving scene right after that like the sort of initiation or when does that come

no because the skydiving okay because he goes surfing again he gets mooned he sees surfing again and he gets mooned he sees the butt he sees the hairy butt right and he immediately figures it out right he's like

wait there's four of them and then he stakes them out he stakes them out and realizing he's talking to Angelo he's like I staked them out let me boss up no not that yet

oh not that yet you don't see the stakeout he follows them right and then he's like hey Angelo I realize that they are mapping out this bank and they're going to hit this bank and then they're going them right and then he's like hey angelo like i realized that they are like mapping out this bank and they're gonna hit this bank and then they're gonna leave right yeah

and then then they do the botch stakeout and the botch takeout's got the chase scene where a dog gets thrown oh god they're throwing the dog at him is so good it's so good oh my god and then i love that when that's when that's the firing the gun into the air and that's when Bodhi figures out that he's and then it's like then there's the plane scene which is such a weird energy

because we know that Bodhi knows who Johnny Utah is right and you know you wonder if Bodhi

is testing whether Johnny knows that it's him right because I'm like like why is Johnny going along with this? Johnny has to know that Bodhi knows he's a cop.

Right, but I think, I feel like Johnny is looking for a reason to excuse Bodhi. Like, he's hoping there's some explanation that somehow resolves the entire thing and absolves Bodhi of guilt. Like, he doesn't want to have to dump Bodhi. Or he's like, maybe if I convince my dad that I didn't see him cheating on my mom, that, like, he'll stop doing it. But it escalates. And so, yeah, there's the whole jumping out of the plane scene.

But I love, it's like a powder keg attention because you're watching it the whole time. The scene's really fun. And if it was happening earlier in the movie, you'd just be like, this is a fun bro-out. Right, and instead there's right. Right. Yeah the parachute

thing. And the shit with the parachutes which would have felt just like early goofing around. Right and instead you're like what are

they going to try like in a skydiving accident. Right but yeah it's so much fun. I mean God I love we can just go back to the meatball subs

for a second. Those sandwiches look so good. Two. It made me so hungry. Only you had one to eat on mic. That's true. She got a meatball set.

I think Bigelow is really good and not overusing close-ups. She makes her close-ups really count for when she wants to sell something totally on a face. Like the shot of his eyes in the mask.

But otherwise, she does a lot of two shots and a lot of medium shots where you get, she has a lot of really shots and a lot of medium shots where you get, she has a lot of really physical actors in this cast and you need to see what they're doing

with their body, right? Yeah. Because that's what I love about Busey's casting is he's built like a linebacker. But he just seems kind of run down as a person.

Right. Like, yeah. And it's sort of fun to watch him shamble around. But the fact that you get to see unbroken him sitting there unwrapping the sandwich,

taking some bites, that it's not just all on his face with the sandwich coming out of frame, you know? But that moment is so masterful when Johnny just like happy-go-lucky goes and orders the sandwiches and the lemonade and you see them pull up behind him. Like it's almost like a fucking Looney Tunes gag. Like it's almost like a Michigan Day Frog bit where it's like of course the second he turns around. Of course the second Busey's eating the sandwich. But then so right. But no. The skydiving scene

right after that is when they go to the bank robber. Because it's like the skydive they land. Bodhi's like I've taken Tyler hostage. And you have to go and do this with me. And then he's like Special Agent Utah. Mask off. Also that like when they're leading up to that bank robbery where Johnny's there was a line that I was hoping might be your line, although it's a Swayze line,

which I would have just loved if you had said, all I'm asking for is 90 seconds of your podcast. I thought about that. That would be really good. I really thought about that, which is all I ask of our listeners. Hey, early technology, when they show the video i don't even know what that is i have no idea what the fuck that is like i've it's not a vhs no it must be some kind of earlier maybe i have no idea but i loved it there's a lot of old

computers in this yeah maybe 1991 um like the database where they look up tyler yeah love it so good um yeah where the database where it's like it first the first page is her uh arrest record and you're like yeah okay i buy that they and then he's like no what else they got in the second page he's like yeah mother and father died i'm like it wouldn't have that like this is an eight is a dos database we don't just put in like oh you know some personal info you know some color uh The thing I love about this movie, and I think it speaks to the screenplay, because this had to have inherently been part of the script, is that a shittier movie, I think,

would end with that foot chase. Sure. And Johnny shooting in the air and letting Bodhi go. I guess so. I think you would have had a little more meat before that, but that would have been the ending is, he's heartbroken by the guy he was so close to and he lets him get away rather than letting bode become terrifying right and that's the midpoint right like basically right yeah because like the remake lets bode stay noble

the entire time and you're like fuck no the minute bode kept kidnaps tyler right he's hard because like yeah bank robbery is a fairly victimless crime, it's easy for people to root for bank robbers, right? Sure. There's a zillion movies about bank robbers. Right. Often the bank robber is not. And it feels countercultural, which is Bodhi's whole philosophy. But then usually, of course, in any bank robbery movie, shit goes bad.

So here's my question. Uh-huh. In the bank robbery scene where he's got Johnny there unmasked to sort of implicate him, why does Bodhi want to rip off the vault all of a sudden? Like, why does he make that decision? I think because he's an adrenaline. I mean, I think he's self-destructive. He's just sort of losing it.

He's like going full tilt or whatever. And he's just kind of like, because there's no like, you know, there's no like obvious plot reason for it. Well, because he also, he says in the lead up because they're all just like, we should fucking bail. This dude's an FBI agent. And then he gives a whole speech where he's like, I think that's when he gives the like,

it was never about the money thing. He's like, this is the ultimate thrill. Yeah. And I think that's when it's starting. He's becoming unhinged, clearly. But it's also pointing out, it's like he wasn't robbing banks to surf because it was just

a convenient thing. Sure. He really gets off. It's same with the skydiving. Obviously it's like chasing the dragon. Yeah. It's like trying to get that, that better high.

And I think that this is probably the last time they're going to rob a bank. Right. So he just wants to go all out and just like get the highest he can off. See, that's him up though. The additional layer that I would put onto it. And I think it's, this isn't me objecting by the way. I was, put onto it, and I think it's tied to that.

This isn't me objecting, by the way. I was just soliciting opinions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I agree with everything you said. The other element I think that's at play is we're talking about the fact that Bodhi has no real long-term plan, other than this idea of, like,

travel around the world, live off the land. But he's kind of one of those people who keeps on saying, like, yeah, I'm just going to retire and move to the woods. And you're like, you'll never fucking do it. When you say you'll do that, you'll never do it. All Bodhi wants to do is just continue surfing with his bros and robbing banks, getting a reasonable amount of money

where they can keep it safe, right? But at this point, I think he knows no matter what, as Ben said, this is probably his last bank robbery. He's got Johnny Utah here. So if he's going to make a life for himself, he needs to go all in, get all the money, because he's going to be running for the rest of his life. Yeah, and Johnny even says that.

No, that makes sense. That makes sense. He's like, you've killed an FBI agent. People have figured out who you are. Right. When they get on the plane, he's like, oh, I love that line. He's like, there's this new thing called radar. Maybe you've heard of it.

Great technology. But it's like he needs to build a bigger parachute for himself now, because this is like the end of the line yeah of course and he loves the thrill they spend too much time in the bank and a hero cop decides he's gonna you know shoot at them it all goes wrong we don't do this often but occasionally we'll play the game of like which role would i play in this movie you're the guy who's like don't do anything don't do anything what are you crazy and he's the security guard he's just like come on get them dude don't do anything they're insured

just let them take the money yeah uh hero cop fucks everything up so now they're in trouble and one of them is dead two of them are dead one of them's dead one of them severely injured and the cop i think right yeah two of them are dead because it's just by the time they get on the plane it's just bode and james lagro oh you're right yeah now two of them die i can't remember the exact sequence with uh bucey or does bucey issue james is that that's how james lagro gets shot yeah because right no it's just one dies of the bank robbery right and then bode knocks out knocks out Johnny Utah at the scene, runs away. Yeah. And that's when, and then Busey springs Johnny, you know.

Right. And they go to the plane, the airfield. And that's where Busey dies, which is like, you know, already, you know, Swayze's kidnapped Tyler. Now he's responsible for the death of a character. Like, right. Like, you know, this is a monstrous thing. Right. character we like right like you know this is a monstrous thing right yeah and i like how bigelow's like doesn't just then flip and is like yeah well bodhi's an asshole and he needs to die she's still

kind of with him you know yeah because he's been the same throughout i think is what she's saying well you know someone asked you on twitter i know you were saying this is a nihilistic movie yeah but someone asked you on twitter uh david uh after watching Loveless, going like, so is Bigelow a nihilist? And your response was, no, I think she's a realist, which is even more depressing. Right. And I think that's true. Like, I think a lot of her movies are about, like, how people kind of are inherently drawn to doing the wrong thing. Sure.

Or sort of fundamentally fucked. Yeah. You know? I mean, I think that's, yeah, I think that's true. Obviously, this is not a realistic movie. At all. It's very heightened. In terms of how the right things happen.

Sure. But I do think she's realistic about her character's motivations, like you're saying. Right. And I think it's true of like the Hurt Locker. I think it's true of a lot of movies. Emotionally honest. Yes. Right.

And this last act of the movie is like Johnny Utah kind of being caught in like a psychologically abusive relationship with Bodhi. Yeah, literally. Right. Because he wants to keep on psychologically abusive relationship with Bodhi. Yeah literally. Right because he wants to keep on giving him another chance weirdly like he number one priority get Tyler safety right but number two is like he doesn't want to bring the hammer down on Bodhi because he wants to believe

this guy's better and in the process causes a lot more damage. Well and I think it's again because he's confused the purity and joy of surfing with Bodhi. And he's like, no, no, you taught me this. You must be. You must be the enlightened person.

On a surface level, it looks like Bodhi is living the life that he wants to live where it's just he's only doing things for himself. He doesn't need to prove things to people. He finds peace in the solitary personal activity. He's into free love. Right, right. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, but then. The plane scene's great. he's into free love right right yeah man yeah man but yeah

but then the plane scene's great yeah where Groh where Groh's like I'm really cold and Keanu's like the blood is leaving your body

that's why you're cold the skydiving photographer in that movie is fucking unbelievable I don't know how she did it I don't either it's insane how the hell do you do that stuff

it's insane I mean I really like I already said but I really do think that shot of Keanu leaping out of the plane to grab him is the best shot. Well, if you make your body a tube, you can fall much faster,

but you have no control over... Right, because I was like, that's not totally possible. You go like this. No, no, no, I did. That's how you go faster and slower. My exact thought... There's no way they would fall for 90 seconds

or they'd be dead. Yes. I looked that up. Yeah. They'd be dead. Yes. I looked that up. Yeah. They'd be dead. It's like 30 seconds max. You're falling. The first skydiving sequence

goes on for so long. Yeah. It doesn't work that way. And also, it would be very hard for them to talk to each other, obviously. Sure.

You really have to basically just go into someone's ear and be like, Bodhi, you betrayed me! Right. No, they talk to each other, they hold hands, they break apart,

they each listen to an episode of WTF. It's like, guess who? Like, they do a lot of stuff up in there. Who are your skies? Sorry. But. Well, and then they have, like, their second, like, parachute pull chicken. I think that's so good.

So good. Where Bodhi is not, like, he's like, you got to kill me or pull the chute. Like, and he explains it all. Right, which is, it's set up so well by the first one where it's like, the game of chicken is like, A, Keanu's half questioning whether or not they gave him a dummy pack. But B also, it's like, he wants them to be a unit. He wants them to be, like, operating in tandem. Yeah. them yeah um but uh two thoughts i had were one this movie is so uh sexy just on like a filmmaking level and how like i watch and all these things i've like always hated this movie sells me on

where i'm like fuck i want to live in california like the way this film's california when you see the sandwich you're like god i want to eat that sandwich i would never skydive in my entire life and when i watch this sequence i'm like fuck fuck, I want to do that right now. It's really cool because she's getting the shots of the land, which is like Earth looks like an alien planet from that high. And also, if it lasted that long I would probably do it.

It even makes bleeding to death look cool. It makes it look awesome. Skydiving's cool. Have you done it, Ben? I've done it a couple of times. It's amazing. You have to go tandem, so you have to It's amazing. I'm not surprised at all. You have to go tandem, so you have to go with somebody. You're not legally allowed.

So they're taking care of all the shoot, all that stuff, but there is nothing. So you're just literally having the experience of falling slowly, majestically. With style. Yeah. I remember the guy the second time around, because I had told him I had gone before. He's like, you like spinning, man? While I'm hanging out of the plane, I'm like yeah and he went for it and it was you mean so

you're going like we like corkscrewing in the air flying around he then finally leveled us out but like vertically like like almost doing like a cartwheel just spinning like very weird to think that's someone's job yeah like every day he's like what am i gonna do today i'm gonna jump out of a plane again i'm the spinning guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you going to say something else? Oh, just also falling through clouds

is really insane. How does it feel? Well, you can't I mean Yeah. Is it wet? Yeah, that was my assumption.

It's kind of wet. You're a wet guy. It's kind of wet. It's like when it's like a little damp outside like post rain. Is that what it's kind of like? Foggy.

Sort of. Yeah. I mean, it is like just falling through fog. Sure. Pretty much. The moment when Keanu jumps out packless with the gun, gun first. God. The thought I had to myself was, well, this is why movies exist.

Yeah. I agree. Like I was like, this is why we go to the movies. And I think that's what Bigelow thinks too. Yeah. That's what she sees in this movie. And not just because it's a cool image, but the way the entire story is built up,

that image, the way the image is captured, you know, like everything about it is just like, this is what is capable. Like with cinema, this is what you can do in long form narrative storytelling on a big screen. Even if you're watching it on your fucking laptop,

like I did, it's just like, oh God, such a pretty boy. He's, it's great. So there's this emotional confrontation

in the sky. Yeah. This movie's about the sky. It's not Aloha, but it's about the sky. It is, and he, he again doesn't kill Bodhi,

you know, he's had two clean shots on him in this movie and he, you know, he doesn't do it. Right, but Bodhi,

Bodhi has kind of put him in an impossible situation. no, for sure. He needs to protect Tyler or, you know't do it. Right. But Bodhi has kind of put him in an impossible situation. No, for sure. He needs to protect Tyler or so on. Right. And then Bodhi runs away. James LeGros does not make it.

He dies midway through. Sure. He does pull his chute but then he doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. But so Bodhi escapes with the money

and then we just cut to nine months later at the beach for the 50-year storm. And Johnny's found him there knowing he wants to do it i guess right right yeah and he like he uh snapped the handcuff to him and he's just like come on man i just want to fucking surf like let me do this last thing you just want to die i'm not gonna go anywhere like cliffs on either side right you know i can't be in a cage man what am i gonna

do there so johnny's like okay yeah and he goes and he fucking wastes himself out there it's great there's a good detail I love when they release Tyler

that she runs to him and they embrace but they don't kiss yeah cause I feel like she hates him right yes

cause she she feels betrayed by him when she finds out he's a FBI agent and like by you know she yells at him

about lying about it. He manipulated her. Like, really, really hard. Although doesn't, I think it's that scene. Cause there's the scene earlier where he's like,

wants to tell her she's, that he's a cop. Right. And she thinks he's trying to say he loves her. Yeah. And I think when she comes out of that, I think they repeat that moment where she's like, basically about to say,

I love you. Right. And he's like, we can talk about it later later so i don't think she hates him well she definitely hates him in that moment earlier right absolutely maybe she's right but i think at that moment she's also just dealing with like the trauma of what she's just been through and it would be so easy to do the like fucking man of steel jurassic world like we kiss while the world is burning around us but it's like in that moment you wouldn't like it doesn't matter whether you love the guy or hate the guy she runs him just because she's like i need to get away from that guy with the fucking knife like well and she just like kind

of collapses and i would argue that this is probably the first time she has realized how fucking evil bodhi is yes and so now it's like oh wait you were staking out bodhi you lied to me and that's sure yeah she never right you're right yeah she has a new perspective on bodie and she's always been giving johnny the like straight talk on bodie where it's like what is a kind of full of shit like you know yeah there is this thing where i think she's always high status like yeah you know until intellectually at least obviously at some point she's low status physically but but like intellectually she's always like i get this more than everyone else you boys are gonna do your fucking boy thing yeah like run around and point guns at each other and

whatever you know but i like i know what's driving all of this yeah you're all just like scared of your own mortality and yeah this movie i think is like the uh spoof cop action movie right like hot fuzz is spoofing this movie more than any other movie. Yes. Right. Like down to like the gun in the air, the throwing the badge away, all that,

all the sort of semiotics. Hot Fuzz, another movie that I love, I realized while watching this, in Hot Fuzz, I think like it's in the final action scene when they're getting ready. They say, Little Hand says it's time to rock and roll.

Right. Which is what the ex-president say. And I was like, interesting that you have the cops mimicking the bad guys. Sure. Time to rock and roll, which is what the ex-presidents say. And I was like, interesting that you have the cops mimicking the bad guys. Sure. Time to rock and roll. Yeah.

I am not a crook. All right. So originally- I mean, five comedy points for that because he is literally- A crook. Stealing money. That's the joke.

Five comedy points. Posthumous comedy points, Patrick Swayze. So just some little trivia pieces. Ridley Scott was going to make this movie. That was the original concept. That's weird. Thinking of Broderick,

Matthew Broderick or Johnny Depp as Utah and Val Kilmer or Charlie Sheen as Bodhi. Wait, Charlie Sheen wouldn't have been old enough, I feel like. I don't know what to tell you. That's weird. He was hot shit. I mean, Platoon.

But then it just sort of of I guess Scott passes on it or something it doesn't come out it falls apart and Cameron who is an executive producer recommends Catherine Bigelow who was just being finished

just wrapping up point at Blue Steel okay so I assume she gets she nails this job down before Blue Steel even comes out because they're

pretty close together maybe not I'm not sure yeah so that happens and then the movie nails this job down before blue steel even comes out because they're, they're pretty close together. Maybe not. I'm not sure. Yeah. Uh, so that happens and then the movie comes out and we should talk about that in the box office game. Okay.

Right. Yes. July 12th, 1991. Okay. Middle of the summer. This movie opens. What number do you think this movie opens?

It's a wild weekend. Three? Wrong. Higher or lower? Lower. Five? Higher. Four.

Fourth. It opens fourth. Eight million, eight and a half million dollars. Okay, and what does it end up at? 43, which adjusted is at 91. It was like a solid hit. It's an R rated action movie it's coming out

in the height of summer it's a huge home video cable TV movie that cements its legacy for sure it is the number 3 surfing movie behind

and Box Office Mojo number 3 surfing movie the top 2 are very surprising to me one of them is it surfs up the animated film number one the animated film about

surfing penguins okay is the number two like strictly surfing where does it just contain like surfing stuff like would you say it's about the world of surfing it is but it's also about like personal healing and redemption i think it's sort of like an inspirational true story movie it's not blue crash no that is number four. Soul Surfer? That's a great movie. Soul Surfer. Weird. Who even remembers that movie? I do because that was one of two

Anna Sophia Brown. Helen Hunt surfing movies. Right, along with Chasing Mavericks. No, that's the Gerard Butler movie. Yes. Do you know that that Lori Petty directed a movie 10 years ago,

an autobiographical film? She has a crazy, crazy life story. I did not. Where she was one of three children raised by a single mother who was a prostitute. I did not know.

And she wrote and directed an autobiographical film about her childhood with Jennifer Lawrence and one of her first movie roles playing the Laurie Petty character. What's it called? And Anna,

not Anna Sophia Robb, Chloe Grace Moritz. The Poker House? Yes. And co-written by? David Alan Greer. What? How weird is that?

What a wild movie. Jennifer Lawrence. Jennifer Lawrence played Lori Petty in a film. I did not know about any of this. All of that shit. Apparently, David Alan Greer is one of her best friends

and she told David Alan Greer about her life story and he was like, I want to write this with you. Does he write a lot of movies I don't think so I don't think so I know people who are friends

with David Allen Greer so it doesn't surprise me that he's Laurie Petty's friend he seems like a nice guy sure it just I never knew him to write

at all I did not know that though he's a really fucking good actor he is you know what he was great on The Wiz Live oh yeah he fucking

killed it on The Wiz Live amazing which I was underwhelmed by sure right it was fine I liked it

I enjoyed it I mean it was all just like cool we're finally gonna have a musical that's not all white people

so that that already just made me like I also saw it under the perfect conditions I saw it in a townhouse in Harlem with all black people.

I just feel like I like my Wiz really sad. Yeah. I think the Lumet's really a sad movie. I think some productions are sad, and I felt like Wiz Live was a little too glitzy. Oh, yeah, box office. So Point Break opens number four. Number one is the movie that came out the week before that is still number one at the box office it has grossed 90 million dollars in two weeks makes 20 million this weekend what is it

1991 i know what does it end up at it ends up at 204 domestic it is one of the biggest hits in history it's one of the biggest also the history it's also the most expensive film ever made to that point in time True Lies? no 1991 my friend True Lies is 94 oh Terminator 2?

Terminator 2 her husband's movie came out a week before her movie I have no idea why they're totally they're different studios because Point Break is a Fox movie Terminator 2 is TriStar I think

I mean Terminator 2 was weird but she got her revenge yeah that's true she kicked his ass in 09 but so Terminator 2 is just

I mean is redefining action movies up at the top of the list right redefining success and Point Break

which is another like generational action movie, comes out the week after. That is insane. Wild. Wild shit. Wild. Number two at the box office

is new this weekend and is a reissue of an animated classic. I have no idea how you're going to guess which one it is. Wow. It opened to $10 million.

Disney? This is back when Disney would reissue, yeah. Little Mermaid? No. Oh, no, no, no. Because Little Mermaid comes out shortly before that. Little Mermaid's would reissue. Little Mermaid? No. Oh, no, no, no. Because Little Mermaid comes out shortly before that.

Little Mermaid's like two years old. Pinocchio? No. A little later. Okay, I see. I think I might be able to pinpoint this because I would go to those re-releases. Is it The Jungle Book? No, which I went to.

I remember that one. You're a little too young at this point, though. 91? I mean, you're like a baby, right? I think this might have been my first movie I saw in a theater. You were two. That's why I think it might have been the first movie I saw. My parents would take me to movies early on.

Go hit me with it. So it wasn't Pinocchio. It wasn't John. I'm trying to reverse engineer it because they stopped doing the re-releases maybe when I was like five. But I definitely saw the first three. This movie first came out in 1961. So this is the 30-year anniversary of this movie. I feel like I know what it is.

It's not Sleeping Beauty, is it? No, this movie made $144 million when you take all its re-releases into account. It's a huge hit. It's not 101 Dalmatians? Yes, that's it. Oh, I was wrong. Bingo!

No, it's Pongo. Fuck, I fucked it up. What's the other one? Perdita not my favorite Disney but some kids love it because they love dogs I just love Cruella DeVille Cruella freaked me the fuck out

I couldn't deal with her she really scared me at the end when her eyes go crazy did not like that I like the human couple I just like that they're kind of like a weird like east village like songwriter you know kind of yeah um number three at the box office is another generation defining movie of the early 90s also opening this weekend to 10 million dollars uh what do you call it i guess it's it's it's it's like a gritty crime drama

I guess but it's like really a really really really crucial movie to in like it's like a fucking bedrock movie for a whole

like genre of 90s movies I feel like interesting when you say gritty crime and it's like an Oscar hit like this movie makes a lot of money gets nominated for some Oscars.

Sons of the Lambs? No, that came out in January. Okay. When you say crime, is it more focused on the criminals or the law enforcement? I guess crime. It's about life on the street.

It's hard to... Homicide. No, it's hard to talk about this movie without totally giving it away. Yes, Boys in the Hood. I was going to say, I love this movie. But, you know, Boys in the Hood, John Sing away. I was going to say, I love this movie.

But, you know, Boys in the Hood, John Singleton, still the youngest ever director, I think. 26? He was 26 when he got nominated. I think he might have even been younger. Oh, I think he was 24. Jesus Christ. I got freaked out when Johnny Utah said he was 25 in this movie. Oh, yeah, me too. I mean, look.

I'm turning 35 tomorrow, so. I'm turning 47. He was 24 years old. That's insane. The first African-American and the youngest director ever nominated for Best Director. Crazy, crazy, crazy. I don't think he'll ever be beaten. You know, Rosewood is kind of a blank check.

You know, it was a more expensive movie. You know, he definitely, I mean, Rosewood wasn't like a huge budget movie, but still, he got a lot of money to make this very specific period movie. But also, when you're the youngest

guy ever nominated for Best Director, I think people thought he was going to be like a major American force. A major voice. It's just like, look at this top five.

You got three movies that are really like huge early 90s movies. Yeah, yeah. Very definitive early 90s touchstone. A lot of dyes are being cast this weekend. Number four is Point Break. Number five is, I think we talked about this one before.

It's a comedy sequel. I can't remember which one. Another Stakeout? No. Who's Talking To? No, no. It's a comedy sequel. When did the first one come out? no no it's a comedy sequel when when the

did the first one come out was this like a rush sequel or was this a delayed sequel that's a good question it the first one came out in 88 this one comes out in 91 the last one comes out in 94

there's three of them three of them big broad comedies oh oh oh it's the naked gun two and a half the smell of fear best one maybe

the highest grossing yeah I'll say this I had always argued that it was the best of the three yeah I rewatched one and two recently and one has

moved up now on my list one's great they do kind of blur together to me two's got some great gags one just something some of the other movies

we've got Robin Hood Prince of Thieves which is hanging out just a huge in five weeks it's made 109 that's a massive hit that's another butt movie

yeah a lot of butt in that movie oh that's true but not his butt not his butt butt double he did not want to get in the water a thing I love about Point Break

is it clearly isn't a butt double because it's just kind of like a mediocre butt with a hairy ass it's true it's not a great not a great butt

it's not like a manicured butt very true number seven is Regarding Henry which we mediocre butt with a hairy ass. It's true. It's not a great, not a great, but it's not like a manicured, but, um, very true. Uh, number seven is regarding Henry, which we,

right. I'm sure get really deep into later when we do our Mike Nichols. I don't know. We talked about it in K-19. Yeah, we do. Uh, city slickers. Oh,

big hit of that year is generation to finance. Yeah. I remember when that was a thing. That was a big thing. Problem child two. And a movie I'm sure Griffin loves a lot. Uh was a big thing. Problem Child 2. And a movie I'm sure Griffin loves a lot. The Rocketeer at number 10. You know, I

like that movie a lot. I don't love it. It's weird. I always feel like I should adore it. I'm with you. I like that movie, but it's never been a... I remember seeing it in the theater, but I... All I remember is that he was a Rocketeer. I don't remember any of the plot, except that maybe there were Nazis.

Yes, there are Nazis. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. There are Nazis in it. Timothy Dalton's really good. Also, by the way, I realized I should tell you how I discovered Point Break. Oh, please do. And then I'm going to turn the tables.

I got surprised. Please tell us how you found Point Break. So summer of 1996, I went to. Oh, so you didn't see it in theaters. No, I was eight. Okay. Yeah, I was too young. So summer of 1996, slight context for this is that my parents lived in Israel.

I have an Israeli uncle. My family has ties to Israel. Summer of 1996, my aunt and uncle take me and my cousins to Israel for three weeks and dump us with my cousins to Israel for three weeks and dump us with my cousin's babysitter. So we're in just some like Israeli suburb for three weeks

kind of going to water parks, going to this, blah, blah, blah. I just am basically hanging out a lot. This is the perfect way to discover a movie. This is,

so I'm like in Israel with a babysitter. Going through their, I'm 13 and going through their VHS collection and like, I must have watched

other movies. But Point Break was one of them. And I just remember like watching Point Break with Hebrew subtitles a bunch. I mean, I love this movie. I really love this movie. I've talked about how there was like a summer I spent with my family in the south of France where there was a video store that only had like four movies with English subtitles. And a lot of movies I watched for the first time dubbed in French.

I think I mentioned that before in the podcast. But like Wayne's World I saw in French five times before I saw it in English. And I only was able to pick up on the visual gags. And context clues to figure out what was going on. Because I do not speak French. I also saw Jumanji in the Israeli theaters. And they do intermissions also saw Jumanji in the Israeli theaters, and they do intermissions in like screen movies. For Jumanji?

Yeah. That's giving Jumanji more pomp and circumstance. They just do it for all movies, apparently. They're just like, it's too long to sit through. That's a movie that looks, the new Jumanji, that's rough. I was reading an interview with a J.K. who used to be a very good filmmaker.

Yeah. What's the good one? to be a very good filmmaker. Yeah. What's the good one? Zero Effect. Zero Effect's pretty good. He directed most of Freaks and Geeks. Yeah, he directed a lot of Freaks and Geeks. He did the pilot and directed the majority of the season. But TV directing is a lot.

Orange County's totally solid. Solid. Yeah. Right. And then he just stops making good movies. Orange County's the one with Jack Black, right? Correct. Yeah.

I liked that movie. Some people like the TV set. I've never seen it. It's okay. And he directed Walk Hard. Right. Walk Hard rules. I like that movie. Some people like the TV set. I've never seen it. It's okay. And he directed Walk Hard. Right, Walk Hard rules. Walk Hard's good. TV sets about Judd Apatow.

He did Bad Teacher, which is basically a terrible movie that's sort of watchable. Right, but that felt like a rebound, which is like, yeah, a nightmare. And then Jumanji looks horrific. I read some interview with him where he was talking about it

and he was like, we know how important the original is so we want to be very reverential to the original. And I was like, we're canonizing Jumanji now? Jumanji's not good. No, it's like a C+, a B-, if you're generous. We all just saw it. Yeah, it's fine.

It was your mandatory Robin Williams film that summer. Yeah, I saw it. Jumanji's best thing it has going for it was it was at that nexus of like still having a lot of practical effects. Like there are cool animatronics in Jumanji, but the movie, who fucking gives a shit? Well, the trailer that I saw for the new one, I was just like, what the fuck is this movie? Okay, David, can I turn the tables? Oh, sure. For once, I want you to guess the box office.

Okay. For the weekend of December 25th, 2015, Christmas weekend, because that is when Point Break 2015 came out. It is one of one, two, three, four, five new releases that weekend. It opens at number eight with $9 million, ends up making $28 million, which usually at Christmas, even a shitty movie multiplies like five times its opening weekend. No, but it was, yeah, right.

You got all the Jews going. Yeah. Dead on Arrival, that having been said, it made $100 million overseas. Boo. That was the big play there. Okay, so it's Christmas.

2015. The exact date? 15. So I'll tell you, the other movies that opened lower or around Point Break, Hateful Eight is number 10 in limited release before

this is just when it's in the 70mm right? We saw it together Yes we did Hunger Games Mocker Day Part 2 is number 9 Point Break is number 8 Tell the Truth Concussion is number 7. Tell the Truth Disney movie is just like that movie

Big Short is number 6 it's first weekend going wide. Number five is a movie. It's in its second week. It has been talked about a lot on this podcast. I've invoked it many times. I'd say a lesser entry from one of my, to say favorite directors would be incorrect,

but one of the directors I'm most fascinated by. It is a sequel. He did not direct the two previous movies. He came on just for this one. I'm sorry. He did not direct the three previous movies. So it's the fourth entry

in the series. Oh, so is it Alvin and the Chipmunks the Road Trip? Correct. It's the Road Trip? It's the Road Trip. Opens to 13. good opens to 13 opens to 13 opens to 13 ends up at 85 uh does 140 overseas okay number four is uh uh a comedy uh that made more money than everyone remembers comedy daddy's Everyone remembers. Comedy. Daddy's Home? That is number two. Oh, okay. All right. Okay, okay.

That is number two, opening with a robust $38 million. That was the movie. I mean, we can all guess number one in a second, but that was the movie that people who couldn't see number one went to see instead. Right. So this movie, the movie that's number four, it's in its second weekend of release. That was the big cornerstone of their advertising campaign campaign especially when the stars are doing press and stuff they kept on joking like

go see this instead if number one is sold out it's a big much like Daddy's Home it is two people who have already starred in a comedy together it's a delayed follow up film for a comedy duo that is

they're very well known for working together they've only made two movies. You hate the first one. I hate the first one. Yes. You have said you think it's a contemptible movie. I think it's fine. I think it's a contemptible movie?

Yes. You find the movie abhorrent. And I'm always surprised by how much you hate it. It's Sisters. Correct. With Tina Fey and Amy Poe. And you hate Baby Mama. I hate Baby Mama.

I think both of them are solid. I think both of them have funny stuff in them. I liked Baby Mama, but I think what's really telling is my favorite part of Baby Mama was Romani Malco. He's so good. He's really good. If I think about that movie,

I just remember Romani Malco. How have we still not gotten Romani Malco fucking vehicles? How have you not gotten him as a guest? I know. I know. He's going to be a guest next week um number three movie because he

got pigeonholed into black movies is is a lot of why and even I I don't know I just I just don't understand why but even there why he didn't become a leading man like why he didn't have his own screen gems like fucking romantic comedy yeah um but that was pretty good

me guessing that right because talk about an anonymous movie I mean you gave me a lot of hints what's their second collaboration it's sisters this is the second I said they did a lot of other stuff together but this is only their second movie number three is a belly flop

from a star and director team that had had two massive successes in a row belly flop two massive successes in a row and this was sort of like the first time people were questioning the box office drawing power of someone who seemed to be a sure thing and is this um uh is it opening this week like is it a christmas movie it's a christmas movie it was the third collaboration from the director and the star the other two had been huge financial successes huge oscar successes and this one oh is it joy it is joy ah yeah number two is daddy's home and we all know what number

one is star wars episode one yeah phantom man episode one the force awakens uh stars the force awakens which makes 149 million in its second week oh right now I remember people were tweeting like sisters is my Star Wars and I was like why it's about sisters it looks like garbage I think the idea of sisters

it was funny because it's a Paul Appel script right have either of you seen it? it's pretty solid I will say this. I thought all the advertising was terrible, but I saw it out of obligation. You can never trust the advertising on those movies. It's a pretty good, consistent joke movie,

and the supporting cast is amazing. I think Paula Pell's a genius. Yeah. You know, or can be a genius. And it was obvious they just wanted to make a Paula Pell script, right? Yeah. They've worked with her forever. But the whole idea of the movie to me

just sort of seemed like they were like, you know how Tina Fey is usually the straight-laced one and Amy Poehler is the wilder one? What if we kind of reverse it? Yeah. Yes. I just think the movie works pretty well for what it is. Yeah.

As a kind of point, you look at like the original, not implying that the more recent one is a remake, but the Belushi-Akroyd neighbors where they do the flip to be like, well, what if Akroyd's the crazy one? Right. And you're like, well, this isn't what I want. Yeah. Both Polar and Faye do what they're asked to do in Sisters pretty well. Yeah. Can you guess what Force Awakens had made by the end of its second weekend?

This has been out for so now you're saying right it's 10 days 500 million dollars 540 yeah

that's incredible that's incredible because it made 200 something opening weekend 250 and then I assume it's just making like 20 a day

yeah and then it makes 150 more it made like 40 a day that's so good because it gained 300 million Last Jedi isn't going gonna come close and people

might be like uh-oh like is star wars in trouble or whatever but like it's just just nothing's gonna be like that yeah but also the exact same thing happened with the original trilogy like it was like the first one was huge then uh empire was a big dip and then return of the jedi outgrossed empire right right see i thought you were talking about the fact of I thought about it and I thought it would be too confusing. I thought about making that joke and calling it the sequel trilogy. No bits. No bits.

Lux, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for having me. One of our earliest supporters. One of the hardest die-in-the-wool blankies. I remember being on that road trip to Joe Gardens We were going up to see Joe Garden in front of the show, Past and Future Gaff.

Yeah, and you were like, I have this idea for a podcast. I think we had just started it, and I was trying to explain to you. I think we had maybe done two episodes, and I was trying to explain to the two of you why doing a podcast. This is when we still thought we were going to do 100 episodes just on the Phantom Menace. Right, of course. And you were like, why would you do that? And I made the whole case for we still thought we were going to do a hundred episodes just on the Phantom Menace. Of course. And you were like,

why would you do that? And I made the whole case for what we thought we were doing. And then you had me, you talked me into downloading Star Wars Card Trader. I did. The dumbest app

I have ever downloaded. I did. You know, I realized like, as an early adopter, some of those cards I have might actually be worth some money. But they're all already

in the app. That's what I don't get. I know. Well, that was Joe Garden's big point was like, if you go to see all cards, you can just see them on your phone. You just have them already. But I just remember like four years ago, whenever it was when that app came out, our friend Caroline Anderson sold a card on eBay for $150.

Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not kidding you. I remember that. I remember that. But I just like, it's like, you know, one of those movies where you realize the magic was inside you all the time. Yes, it was realize the magic was inside you all the time. Yes, it was. The cards were inside us all the time. They were coming from inside the phone.

Well, thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. Thank you for supporting the show. As always, please remember

to rate, review, subscribe. Please do. Thanks to Ang for Gudo for our social media. Thanks to Joe Bone and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. Yes.

Which was very Point Break inspired, leaning really hard on the Point Break. Mostly Point Break. So this is the episode where you'll really appreciate the artwork. Right. Lay Montgomery for our theme song. Ben's throwing up the devil horns. He's hanging 10. Ben is hanging 10.

He looks like he needs a nap. And, and, and. As always. And as always. We never go to the vault. We never go to the vault. Don't go to the vault. Don't go to the vault.