Blank Check with Griffin & David - Ratatouille with Romilly Newman and Joey Sims

Episode Date: June 3, 2018

In another family edition episode, this week, siblings Romilly Newman and Joey Sims help discuss 2007’s rat foodie journey, Ratatouille. But what were the circumstances behind Bird being brought onto this project? What was the cultural impact of this movie and children’s relationships with food? Is it a coincidence that ‘rat’ is in the title? Together they discuss food culture, Paris, picky eating and more! This episode is sponsored by WeTransfer, Dollar Shave Club and Covert Podcast. Music selection: “Anxiety” by Kai Engel (http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Kai_Engel/) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and the defense of the new.

The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. But the new needs friends. Last night I experienced something new, an extraordinary podcast from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the podcast and its podcaster have challenged my preconceptions about fine podcasting is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for producer ben's famous motto anyone can podcast but i realize only now do i truly understand what he meant not everyone can become a great podcaster

but a great podcaster can come from anywhere it's difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the genius now podcasting at audio boom who is in this critic's opinion nothing less than the finest podcaster in france you're talking about me david simms hey thanks of course i caught up on my emails during that yeah well i was we were uh both rushing and late uh yeah we're rushing to start now right because we're starting late so i thought I'd give everyone a little time to settle in. Yeah, yeah. We're settled in. By writing a four-page solo.

A lot of email. Catching up, too. Oh, no, no. You're on. Wait a second. Huh? Did you just introduce a guest before they spoke on mic? I'm not introducing anyone.

I'm just talking. Jeez Louise. My name's Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. It's a blank check with Griffin and David. It's a podcast about filmography. Directors who have massive success early on in their career are given a series of blank checks

to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes they clear, and sometimes they bounce, baby. Yes, correct. Thank you. We're hashtag the two friends. Only two friends watch the podcast together. It's a competitive advantage.

We're also connoisseurs of context. Yes. But here's another thing we have in common. We are not only children. Very, yes, yes. It's an attack on me griffin oh i forgot you're an only child yeah yeah i'm alone ben making it hard to round out our trilogy of sibling choice episodes that's fine we're just doing this instead yeah ben's dad not super into the idea of being on the podcast refuses to do it do it. Oh, I would love to listen to that. A flat out refusal. I would love to listen

to that too. I don't know if I'd love to record it, but I'd love to listen to it. The more he hated it, the more I would like it. It would be Clifford. It would be the movie Clifford recorded on mic. He wouldn't be polite, wouldn't he? He's like a nice, polite man, I'm sure. He's nice, but I would push his buttons.

You would enrage him the goal would be to enrage him yeah Broden starts out fairly reasonable in Clifford he's kind of a dick though I want to say I want to say

Mason there we go alright so right now we're doing a miniseries on the films of Brad Bird yep and it's called The Podcastables

that's right but in the past as palate cleansers in between miniseries it's called The Podcastables. That's right. But in the past, as palate cleansers in between many series, we've done two sibling choice episodes. That's right. We brought, you brought your brother.

Joey Sims. I brought my sister, Raleigh Newman. And we let them pick a movie to talk about. But. Both of them, when we threw to them and said, am I right to suggest this?

Is there something else you want to talk about? Both of them threw out the same movie as one shared. That was the first thing you said. Was it? Yes, 100%. And I projected onto Ron what movie I thought she'd want to talk about,

and she said, yeah, either that or blank. Right. We're not going to talk about what the movie is? Never. And so we decided, when we chose to do a miniseries on Brad Bird, this is the time to unite the siblings and bring them both back to talk about a movie that all four of us share. That's right. Ladies and gentlemen, today we're talking Tooey.

Yeah. You got it talking. You said like... Did I not just say any Brad Birdad bird no you said ratatouille but i assume you guys don't want to do that you know you didn't you got enough of the format of the show that you knew we might want to do brad bird someday but that was what you said like well i'd rather do ratatouille but i know you guys don't want to do that first movie that i'm usually thinking about at any time and i said i said Ram, am I right in thinking you'd want to do Devil Wears Prada?

Because I'd answered that on an episode prejudging what I thought she'd want to talk about. And she said, yeah, either probably that or Pixar or like Ratatouille. I mean, is this your number one Pixar? Because of the subject matter it is. Sure. Sure. Chef. Yeah.

Little Chef. Little Chef. Little Chef. Being little, being a chef. You are both. You are both. Yes, Little chef. Little chef. Being little, being a chef. You are both. You are both. Yes, I am. Let's acknowledge it.

It's kind of the one movie where people always ask me about. Sure. Because you're a little chef. Because I'm a little chef. You also hide under people's hats. A lot. That's one of the lesser known facts about me, but it's a huge part of my life. And you weirdly never do it in the kitchen.

That's an interesting thing, is you only hide under people's hats at like uh i don't know finish a bit salons people rarely wear hats at salons usually their hair is being worked on makes your job kind of difficult honestly that's why that's the real sport of it you know sure yeah just yeah now now Romley Newman, of course, longtime sister of mine. 19 years. Yeah, 19. You got to stay on that mic. You keep on, put it in a position where you can turn

and still have the mic in front of you. Wow, he's bossing around. Here, I'll fix. Oh, producer Ben's going to fix that. I'm a novice. Producer Ben's going to fix that. Ben Dueser's going to fix that. Mike, Mr. Positive, Mr. Positive,

Poet Laureate, the tiebreaker, the Fartmaster, the Fartmaster, the fucking meat lover, the Fartmaster, the Fart Detective. He loves prosciutto. Everything's wrong. Everything's wrong. He, you know, let's talk about

Benny. He's a white hot Benny. He's a birthday Benny. He's a dirt bike Benny. Wish him a hello fennel. Don't call him Professor Crispy. I'm really excited to have you. I'm going to talk over him. Thank you. Really excited to have you on. And Joey, of course.

We are both food lovers. When were you a food lover? And when we filmed Devil Wears Prada, you were a fashion lover. So we constantly have something to bond over. He was criticizing me for wearing brown shoes with black pants today. You can't do that. I know. You cannot do that.

I know, but I was lazy when I left the house. Wait, but Ben, we all know that you're a fan of fashion, a close personal friend of Dan Lewis. Since when are you a food lover as well? Griffin, I've worked in really high-end restaurants over the years. Oh, that's true. Don't talk about the ****. That's true.

Hey. Yeah, ever since your day is talking about the **** on this podcast, it's gotten a little problematic. I'm going to bleep that out. Burger report? More like a police report okay okay let's let's move along i will make a disclaimer and say this will probably be a very self-centered podcast i might lose a lot of fans what because this movie resonates with my life so much. Resignates? That every... Resonates. Sorry, not resonates. Sure.

Every part of it, I'm like, oh, well, when I was that... Okay, okay. So you're going to... It comes back to me. Well, look, that is the thing that no Newman has ever done on this podcast, is use the discussion of the movie to tell a bunch of anecdotes about childhood. Definitely not Griffin. Never.

Never Griffin. So you are a chef. I am. And a food writer as well. Right. So Romilly, you live with this boy. I mean, you have in your life. I have, yes.

And you live with him like we all must live with him. Right. I'm a force to be reckoned with in this world. Right, yeah. You like food. I love food. He doesn't really like food. I'm not crazy about it.

I feel like we'd be a lot closer if he liked food. I'm always like, I love my brother Griffin. We're so similar. We're really on the same page, but he hates food. He'd eat a fucking egg. Anything. I mean, his diet is, I just describe it as beige.

His diet is literally vanilla. Did it just get shady in here it got shady um every meal i make when he's around has to be modified because there's so many things he doesn't eat yeah but the modified meals you make for me often get reviewed as some of the best work you've ever done is that not true i go hey can you make a little mac and cheese at thanksgiving and then everyone eats the mac and cheese and goes rum stellar probably your best pasta dish ever true well people like mac and cheese is a crowd pleaser oh so you're saying people like the foods that i like because the foods i like are your food your food's like jumanji welcome to the jungle but sometimes romilly wants to make you know a

phantom thread come on don't high road me like that. Now, Joey, I'm going to get all the siblings involved. Yeah, Joey's home. You're not a chef. No. And you're not very little either.

You're a pretty normal sized person. Average size. You've never hit under a hat? I don't know. Really? Maybe he's

hitting under a hat or two. The physics of that are, you know, difficult to pull off. You gotta be little. Little chef. Even if you're little. But so why did this movie speak to you? Now, I remember seeing this movie with you, but I feel like you've always just loved this movie more than me.

The first time I saw it wasn't with you, was it? Yep. Was it? I have a memory of going to the view in a Swiss cottage okay with my friends Swiss cottage view

oh that must have been the second time that I saw it I don't think yeah I think the first time because I just remember very clearly that we saw this movie

with our mother who hates as she calls them cartoons oh god uh and who is she?

Detective Eddie Valiant? Exactly. A toon's wronged her in the past. At the Odeon Camden Town. This is all in London. Were you on vacation? What were you doing in London? Where is the sound effect going to go?

Has it already happened? This movie came out during the summer. It was a summer break. It came out in summer. We lived there., what, it was a summer break? It came out in summer. Yeah, no, no, we lived there. Lived in London. In fact, I was almost not living in London. It's gonna happen right now. I feel it happening. Because this movie came out

in 2007, correct? This was the tail end of your... I left London in 2008, so I was almost done with London. Joey was almost off to college. But we saw this movie. I can't remember why, but my mother... Yeah, why did she go? I don't know. But when we were children, my mother did not like as she called them cartoons like we're talking about like the when i was a kid like you had your your beauty and the beast and your aladdin and she was like not interested in you know even the sort of glorious renaissance

of animation so i don't know why she saw this movie but she loved it interesting and i remember even at the time thinking like wow this movie is so impressive and artistic that it even won over like the biggest hater of animation that i know i i have a question for you so you said this movie coming in 2007 2008 you left london april 2008 am i correct in remembering that after leading leaving london you immediately went to paris and worked it's actually before but yes. That was in early 2008. So do you think that decision to do the sexiest thing that anyone's

ever done which is work at a bar in Paris for six months. It wasn't six months. It was like one month. No four months. Wait a second. No it was four months. It was January to months. Let's open the books here. This is why sibling episodes are great. Yeah it's true. no it was January to April and then well I don't

I'm not sure if I want to invoke his name but my friend who you know who I lived with I'm about to say something slightly embarrassing about him so I'm not sure I want to mention his name who I live with in this one room apartment in Paris just sat down with me one day and said David I have no money

it's a shocking turn of events this was Bernie Madoff you were living with right 2008 like I'm pretty sure that's exactly when the Bernie made well maybe a few months later yeah maybe it was a perfect time and I was just like well yeah of course you have no money we've been living here for months and you we have you have not had a job and he's like so it's kind of an issue how I have no money so now we have to leave. And I was like, alright. And you were raking in those tips. Well, I mean, you know. He was supposed to

teach English, right? That was the idea. We went to Paris because someone had told him, like, it's easy. You speak English. They need English teachers. You'll just get a job teaching English. Amazingly it didn't happen. What was your after service cocktail or choice of drink?

Wine. I mean like Okay, what kind of wine are we talking? Red guy, white guy. Oh, swill. No, all they drink is beer and wine. They're not really like a cocktail people. They're really not.

I don't know because I'm under 21. Sure. I hear. In France you can drink. Actually, that's true. Yes, they do not drink cocktails in Paris why do you think that Ron goes to France

twice a month she's such a boozer she's a wino she weekends in Paris just so she can drink on the flight but you know what I didn't even put together

the Ratatouille thing I forgot about that like that I I'm saying I'm genuinely questioning do you think that movie because it was like I remember

I mean I love Paris it's a lovely place. I remember this came out the exact same summer as Paris Jetem, a very hit miss film, as most omnibus films are. Indeed. Like four very strong segments. Yeah, it's got some cute. Have you seen Paris Jetem?

No. Is that a movie that anyone remembers? It's not a must see. There are, in a YouTube age, you should just watch the four segments that are good. There's a couple of the little movies that are good. The Collins one's really good. The Collins one is awesome. The Alexander Payne one is great.

Yes. The Alan Hughes one. Is there an Alan Hughes one? Am I making that up? Maybe. I always liked the Wes Craven one. Do you remember that one? Yes, I do.

That's a nice little rom-com. Yeah, it's cute. Anyway, it's a Romley comedy. Are those the two? Was there a third Paris movie? There's maybe. No, no. I was just going to say. Well, because there's 20 movies movie? there's maybe no no I was just gonna say well cause there's 20 movies

cause there's one for each arrondissement my point was that that came out earlier in the summer and then Ratatouille came out and I remember several critics saying

Ratatouille somehow makes Paris look better than any of the 20 filmmakers in Paris Jetan well because Ratatouille isn't really set in Paris right sure

but also wonderful fantasy of Paris. It also totally feels like Paris. Like in this way my mom and I saw Coco together. Coco? Which I think Coco.

Ben didn't like that for some reason. Coco. Which I think is now her favorite Pixar movie. I you know the timing is unfortunate

because if you asked me before I saw Coco I mean Ratatouille would be a because if you asked me before I saw Coco, I mean, Ratatouille would be a shoo-in for number one. You're saying Coco's a challenger? I think, it's because,

I saw Coco twice in theaters which she never does. My cold, my cold little heart never cries. And Coco, I was sobbing. I was crying,

Griffin was sitting next to me. Spontaneously. It was, I was crying so much that I was choking on my own crying. And, and there are very serious cinematic masterpieces that have not even I was crying so much that I was choking on my own crying and and

there are very serious cinematic masterpieces that have not even made me well up sure and Coco absolutely killed me

and I went home and I listened to Remember Me on a loop and then I saw it again like three days later and I thought I said to my friend I was like

there's no way I'm gonna cry again here's wow time two well a stranger checked in on me at Coco I saw Coco alone yeah and I was like, there's no way I'm going to cry again. Cheers. Wow. Time two. A stranger checked in on me. I saw Coco alone

and I cried and like a stranger next to me afterwards was like, are you okay? I'll say the thing that was astonishing was we were sitting there together and we're watching the whole movie and Romney's like,

this is fun. Why aren't people giving this more credit? But you're not like emotionally on or tender about it. It's a hammer blow at the end. Right. And then the moment where you realize what they're about to do right right where literally the character like tunes up to destroy your heart romley just turned to me and her eyes were full and it was like oh no oh god what's about to happen like it was like the look someone gives you right before the roller coaster has the drop like the tears were already there and

then just didn't stop for like 20 minutes. There was no going back at that point. I was like, I am a ruined human being. Right. I have lost all sense of self, but I cried through the credits. Yeah.

Cocoa more like Gomo. Yeah. Good movie. But Ratatouille is still very close to mine. Ben just dramatically took off his hat. Ben just quit.

He has handed in his two weeks notice to Audioboom. He's asking if he can get out sooner than that. He is genuinely red in the face. I was going to say, I saw Coco with my mom. My mom grew up in Paris

but spent a lot of time in Mexico City as well. And she was like, it's crazy how well they got Mexico City down. And she was talking about the land of the dead. And I feel like in the same way that the land of the dead. And I feel like in the same way that the land of the dead in Coco captures

Mexico City, even though it's not really Mexico City, Ratatouille does that with Paris, where it's not very literal but it somehow captures the spirit. It captures the way Paris feels. I was going to say I feel like nothing really looks like Paris, but you'll have moments when you're in Paris where there's a ton of It captures the way Paris feels. I was going to say, I feel like nothing really looks like Paris. Right.

But you'll have moments when you're in Paris where there's a ton of lights and there's just this atmosphere or you're eating or something's going on and you just have this overwhelming feeling inside of you. And that's how Ratatouille looks. It's also a movie that like literally glows. Yes. Like it looks like a candle. A lovely blue and gold sort of glow to it. It's very warm. It's a warm. My heart kind of stops when you get to the apartment and it's so shitty.

And then he goes on the windowsill and you can see the beautiful Paris landscape. And you're like, okay. Well, what's your objection, Ben? No, your mom is so cool. Your mom's much cooler than us. You're like a reveal that your mom spent some time in Mexico City. Yeah. What?

We have to have your mom on the show. I have no idea what movie she'll pick. We'll have Holly Hunter on. Yeah. His mother looks a lot like Holly Hunter. I mean, your mother. We should also have Holly Hunter on. Yeah, that's true.

We should have both of them on. When we were young, she got a free carpet because the carpet dealer thought she was Holly Hunter. She would literally get free shit because people knew Holly Hunter lived in New York. They're the exact same size and people would be like, Miss Hunter, right? This way. And she was like, I'm not Holly Hunter. And they're like, okay, we got it, Holly Hunter. She would literally get free shit because people knew Holly Hunter lived in New York. They're the exact same size and people would be like, Miss Hunter, right this way. And she was like, I'm not Holly Hunter. And they were like, okay, we got it, Miss Hunter. Don't worry. Of course, of course.

Don't worry. Because usually the ruse would fall apart when she handed over the credit card. No. Even when she spoke, they'd be like, I guess you sound kind of different. I guess maybe the twang. She has such a distinctive voice. I agree with you. Oh my god, everyone just blew out the mic. the first time I saw a Holly Hunter movie

I was like holy shit because I always just assumed they sounded the same and I was like oh she does not have that voice I mean no one has Holly Hunter's voice

that is one of her Mrs. Incredible Elastigirl kind of has Holly Hunter's voice I would say greatest joke of all time thank you very much

please remember to rate review subscribe alright so Ratatouille. Before we get into the incubation this morning, which I think is interesting, just because you talked about your experience seeing it together. Yes. Ram and I saw it together. It was right before I went off to college, so it was one of our, not like our very

last. Right, we're both in that zone. Yeah, yeah. And that summer, I thought I was going off to college in California to CalArts. California. Brad Bird's alma mater. Yeah, that's right. I thought I was going to move college in California to CalArts, Brad Bird's alma mater. Yeah, that's right. I thought I was going to move to LA and stay there for a very long time. So I was really trying to put in quality Big Brother time.

Sure. And how old would Romilly have been? You would have been eight. Is that correct? Yeah, you would have been eight years old. You were very much activated on the food thing at that point already. Yes. And I raised you pretty heavily on Pixar.

That was like our syllabus. Yeah, I mean, this was kind of, even before I saw my dream movie, besides the fact that I absolutely despise rodents. Sure. So I think I had a few hesitations going in, but the Paris and the food element kind of won you over but i'll say this and correct me if i'm wrong here and maybe i'm just speaking for myself we saw this i remember they did because disney was very afraid this movie was going to bomb yeah and they did a lot of very

like kind of desperate sweaty marketing moves to try to like sell the movie that they thought the american public was just going to roundly reject. So they did those advanced screenings, those public, two weeks before it comes out, it's playing at an AMC for one night. So we went to one of those, and I remember both of us walking out and going, it's good, it's not one of the best Pixar. And it really grew for both of us.

Because both of us, I think, saw it a second time that summer, and we're like, that's actually pretty great. And by the time I get on home video, and it's a movie for me that gets better every single time I watch it. And for me it's a movie that gets better as I get older. Yeah. I agree with that. Rewatching it for this I was just like they nail the food stuff.

I mean I would really say this is one of if not the best food movies in existence. It's my favorite food movie. They set up like the dynamics of the kitchen like technique. It's really really well executed. And the the dynamics of the kitchen like technique it's exactly and the way that they the tiniest things i think are so spot on my favorite moment is when he finds the mushroom and then he's running around trying to find all the

accompaniments yeah because that's exactly how a chef thinks of cooking and talking about flavor profiles exactly and it's like you're building levels of flavor. You have the woodiness of the mushroom, and then you need some herbs, and then you need some acidity, and then you need to char it. I mean, it's incredible. I think this movie was like an activator for you in the way that Devil Wears Prada was. Not that you didn't

have these interests before, but it made you think about them in a real, more tangible way. You know? Because a lot of your cooking up until this point you would cook a lot like that's what you would do when you got picked up from school you would go to the grocery store and you buy stuff and you put it all together and you'd serve it to us and it was usually bad yes like you at first would just make bad food it was bad for a very long time and then course correct by going like oh i guess that didn't work like she's just picking

ingredients that sounded good separately right our mom wouldn't let me watch the Disney Channel. Right. Which is what all my friends watched. Yeah. And at first I was really mad and I thought she was depriving me of a childhood. But the Food Network was one channel away from the Disney Channel. So I would watch the Food Network all day and then when she was out of the room switch it quickly. So was that literally why you started watching the Food Network?

Because you could get away sneaking some Zack and Cody? I think it was a mixture of things. Because you did sneak that Zack and Cody. Wizards of Wave? Zack and Cody were my first true loves. You were never a Wizards of Waverly person, right? I wasn't picky, honestly. But they live in the village.

Right. I thought Disney was so cool because it was so forbidden. All my friends were like, yeah, whatever. And I was like, oh my God, did you see that episode? So I wasn't picky with the Disney shows. I watched it all. I didn't discriminate. But I watched the Food Network originally because I love to eat.

And I found it so cool that people could just spend their lives cooking on TV. But it was also convenient placement. Two things I want to say. One, a brief correction. You said that Zack and Cody were your first loves. That's not true. You loved one of them. You thought one of them was a fucking nerd

and you dunked on him all the time. That's true. I just can't remember which one. I always mix them up. Well, the one is now Riverdale. I think the Riverdale one is Jughead. He is legitimately one of the worst actors on television. Wow.

Do you watch Riverdale? I've seen every episode I actually haven't seen every episode I stopped watching it but I will I hate watch I hate watch Riverdale

do you watch Riverdale Joey I shouldn't get into it but I thought I liked what he was I liked what he was doing and what I saw I wouldn't say that it was like

good acting he's the one who's like I'm a weirdo right but was he Jughead Jones was he the one that you liked

originally or you can't remember? I can't remember. They honestly looked. Oh, and then you met one. I met one. One of the Sprouses. Griffin sent me a picture with one of them. And I think I went to school the next day.

And I just literally walked around with a printed picture of Griffin and whatever. Unnamed Sprouse. Which one? Well, I think it was the one you didn't like. I think you were crying out loud. I can never remember which names. No, you were. Because one of them you were fucking dunking on constantly.

You say he's a fucking loser. One was a loser and one was cool. You liked the cool one. A rebel. Right. But I will say growing up, Griffin constantly wanted to do things that would make him the cool big brother. Thank you. that would make him the cool big brother. When I was at summer camp, I still don't even know how he got this, but he sent me sides from the High School Musical 3 movie.

Script, sure. That was a big deal. I literally just walked around and said, do you want to read a scene from High School Musical 3? This was like a year away at this point. So he got a lot of big brother points. Cool move. In hindsight, I was really obnoxious.

Not true. But I got some cool stuff out of it. So Cole is Jughead. And I think Dylan is the one who has gotten into some trouble recently. My guess is that Dylan's the one you liked originally. I think so too.

I think Dylan was a little more of the bad boy. Yeah, I was into the bad boy at six years old. And then by the time you were 12, you were into Ed Helms. Right. Romley once walked in

when we were watching The Office and said, he's kind of hunky, right? And we said, she might have been younger than 12. She might have been like 10. You were like, I don't know,

he just seems like a nice husband. Yeah, my type quickly went from Dylan Sprouse to husband. Yeah. Who could pay for kitchen renovations oh no who has a nice sweater collection yeah just you know a really dependable guy like wear a bow tie to work right Steve Martin and it's complicated

becomes the platonic ideal he's very cute in that my dream guy is Greg Kinnear Greg Kinnear the one who every romcom is structured around how he sucks he's always the guy who you don't want. Legitimately my dream guy.

The other one you used to love, not that you don't love him anymore, but he hasn't worked as much. But when you were like 10, Hugh Grant was your dude. Oh, he just tore me up. And you haven't seen Paddington 2 yet. I have not.

He's so good in Paddington 2. But he's so good at being so bad. Oh, of course I've seen Paddington 2. Yeah, have not. He's so good in Paddington 2. But he's so good at being so bad. Of course I've seen Paddington 2. He's incredible. The closing number, the post-credits number is genuinely thrilling. He does a musical number of Paddington 2. I'm going to go see Paddington 2 right after this. That's what I yell at all of my

gay and theater friends about Paddington 2. It ends with a Sondheim musical number led by Hugh Grant. See it but the more I tell them to see it, the more they refuse. They're trolling you. It also makes me want to see Paul King do a full musical. Because clearly he's got it in his bloodstream. Totes.

Totes. Because he used to do such good musical numbers on The Mighty Boosh as well. Anyway. Ding dong. Ding dong. Ding dong. Hey. Want to open that door?

All right. Master Frodo. Hello. Master Frodo Uh hello Master Frodo Are you the Sam guy from Lord of the Rings Yeah I think we've met before Oh yeah You've interrupted us before

Okay I couldn't remember if that was a future episode of this one Eh who can even keep track at this point Yeah how can we help you Master Frodo's gone missing I have this ring I have to get it all the way to Mount Doom, and I don't know how to transfer this ring over to Mount Doom. Well, I mean, unfortunately, and this is a personal grievance, but those eagles aren't going to help you until you're all the way up there.

That's the problem. They're always such an eagle ex machina. But, eagle ex machina. But, I know of another way for you to do it. What? You can use WeTransfer. WeTransfer? It makes the creative process easier for everyone,

and I think that you getting that ring up Mount Doom is going to be a creative triumph and might win you a bunch of Oscars. That would be great, but I mean... Personally, you actually won't win an Oscar, but you know, whatever. Surely I must get nominated for Supporting Actor. It's such a showcase-y role.

I think there might be a bit of a grievance, yeah. But you know what? Think about this journey ahead of him it's so complicated you're right whereas with Retransfer it's such an easy site to use

it's like I can skip they don't have sign-ins or offer codes or passwords that's been bogging us down for so long all the passwords

I feel like I could skip at least two towers by just transferring through the service you could simply just upload, send and then get back to doing what you love to do,

which is, I guess, hanging out in the Shire and eating a bunch of food. Like a lot of meals. Porking out. Porking out, yeah. Well, 40 million people use WeTransfer to send and receive files every month. And since day one,

they've devoted 30% of their ad space to showcasing creative people from around Middle Earth. Oh, bilbo his blog he has a blog there and back again a hobbit's blog oh boy i should check that out it's i guess blogging is back it's mostly vacation photos it gets weirdly political well in the spirit of the great work that they do we're gonna skip the rest of the 60 60 second ad we're gonna get right back into the podcast i wish they do. We're going to skip the rest of the 60-second ad. We're going to get right back into the podcast. I wish they'd done that at the ending of Return of the Kings. You're telling me, buddy. WeTransfer.com.

You make WeTransfer. Can I talk about the incubation? Jan Pinkava, or however you say his name? Jan? I thought it was Jan Pinkava. I think it's Jan Pinkava. He directed Jerry's Game, which was the first time that Pixar put a short before

one of their movies, before Bugs Life. The chess one, right? That one is incredible. That blew my mind. Won the Oscar, great short, got everyone on board with the idea of seeing a short before a Pixar talkie. There's a real sophistication to that thing, too.

Especially when you consider that most shorts you would have seen before an animated movie were like a three minute like bit of like cat dog chasing a ball you know sure like they throw that before the Rugrats and be like here's a shorter version of that cartoon show you watch right and that's like an old man in a dual role I think the idea of telling a story that like sophisticated and sort of dark because he's a very lonely guy without dialogue in that

short amount of time was I mean it was new to me but I think it's still I haven't seen it recently but I'm sure it's still It still holds up and it's also very interesting character design. I mean especially at that point like CGI was always kind of just like very round and shiny. Smooth figures, right.

And he's a weird kind of like... Right, he's got like folds in his skin. Right. So he's got this interesting visual style. Everyone was super charmed by Jerry's game with this kind of erudite air to it. This air of sophistication. And Pixar decides,

hey, we're going to let you make a feature. Sure. At this point... He won an Oscar also. He won the oscar yes uh the three original pixar guys once they started making content slinging tent were lassiter unkrich and doctor what about stanton oh and sorry sorry sorry not unkrich not unkrich unkrich was their editor but he wasn't one of the directors i misspoke it was dr stanton right and lassiter

they brought on brad burr because they were afraid they were going to get cocky, so they need to throw some fresh blood in there. Right, but their first movies are, well, you got Toy Story, Bugs Life, Toy Story 2 are all Lasseter. Right. And then you've got Monsters, Inc. is Doctor, and Finding Nemo is Stanton. And then, yeah, and then Incredibles is Bird. So the first six movies are only made by those three guys, four guys. And Cars is in there somewhere.

Is that after The Incredibles? Cars comes after The Incredibles. And that's Lasseter again. That one's about Cars? I think so. I can't remember. Wow. Me either.

But the big thing is... High five, Ben. No. I sort of like the movie Cars. We don't need to get into that. We'll get into that, too. Let's not get into that. Get deep.

Bonus episode. How do you feel about Cars, normally? Sorry? How do you feel about Cars? I loved it when I saw it. First one's fun. Yeah. First one's fun.

Some people out there say it's my favorite movie of all time, and that's Slander. Wow. It's a fun romp. Mater. This is the interesting detail about this film. Okay. One is that

Yank Pinkava was the first guy out of that original group who they were gonna let rise up to the ranks of director. And he had this concept. This idea of

the rat wants the cook. Designed it all. He had all the characters. He had the visual. They're all his characters, right? Like Linguini and Gusteau and all the character designs

and the models were all designed by him right and he was unceremoniously pushed off the film replaced by Brad Bird who took over

in sort of a last minute in 2005 which is really cutting it close now the same thing happened with Toy Story 2 right

so this is I want to do this crash course quickly oh boy okay this is the problem with doing Brad Bird is he gets to talk

about Pixar a lot but all of this is- Well, but this is interesting. This is important content. If you're going to go into the history of Pixar like pushing people off projects,

this is a lot to talk about. Joey is more into the shit than I am. So you guys- Because I think this movie is an interesting fulcrum point of Pixar's director problem

that has led to their spotty track record today. It took about 10 years to catch up with them. Right. But it's why things got kind of shaky. Lasseter makes Toy Story catch up with them. Right. But it's why things got kind of shaky. Lasseter makes Toy Story

all hands on deck. Right. That's a one film distribution deal with Disney. Disney doesn't have creative input. They just deliver the movie Disney markets it releases it.

Toy Story's humongous. So they sign a new deal with Pixar for five movies. Yeah. Disney will own those movies in their entirety. But Pixar can make them whatever they want. But Disney will own those characters in their entirety, but Pixar can make them whatever they want,

but Disney will own those characters forever and can use them any way they want. Sure. So those films are the ones that we just mentioned. Life, Toy Story 2, Nemo, Monsters, Inc., and I guess The Incredibles. Right. That's the five.

And Cars is the last one, right? So around the time, because these films take so long to get made right when they knew their deal was running up they were working with Eisner who they hated

right Michael Eisner the old CEO of Disney right he kept on threatening to make sequels without them without their permission

right because he wanted Toy Story 2 quick direct-to-video yes he wanted to do he didn't threaten they were doing it right

that one was happening the one where it's like Tinkerbell Return to Neverland all that stuff right he wanted just one of those right right after Toy Story 2 after Toy Story 1 Return of Jafar yes yeah was they were doing it. Right. That one was happening. The one where it's like Tinkerbell's Return to Neverland or whatever. Right. You wanted just one of those.

Right. Right after Toy Story 2 after Toy Story 1. Return of Jafar. Yes. Yeah. Right after Toy Story 1 when their crew was still small

and everyone was working on A Bug's Life. Yeah. They kind of had a B team or a C team working on a direct-to-video Toy Story 2. And after they watched

A Bug's Life finished A Bug's Life watched Toy Story 2 which was supposed to come out in video in six months. Yeah. Lester said, this sucks. If you give me a year, I can make this worthy of being released in theaters. Sure.

And they pretty much started over from scratch. Everyone says that movie gave them like fucking kidney stones. Right. Like no one slept for a year, but they made the greatest film of all time. But after that, they just said to Eisner, we don't want to make sequels anymore. And the other part of the deal was if they made a sequel it wouldn't count against their five it would be Disney squeezing

an extra movie out of them so Eisner just went I'll make fucking sequels without you and hired new people to write Finding Nemo 2 Monsters Inc 2 Toy Story 3

all of that Romley's putting on a great looking sort of velvety coat it looks phenomenal I had forgotten this this part of your talk yeah that those those were all announced. All announced.

So things are really tense. Yeah. Those movies are being done outside of Pixar. There's a lot of brinksmanship between the two companies. And Pixar's in a mode where they go, look, we don't want to re-up with Disney.

Right. We're fucking done with this. So they start independently producing three movies. Okay. And this is one of them? Ratatouille, WALL-E, and Up. Sure.

The three most sort of esoteric, iconoclastic films. And then, of course, those are all the ones that Disney would then stress out about later and be like, how do we market these? Want to see this?

Because they just made them themselves. They thought they were going to go to a different company. Eisner got pushed out. Iger takes over, goes to Pixar, goes, I'm paying whatever it takes.

And Steve Jobs makes the kind of, like, he, like, makes peace between the two companies in exchange for, like, owning a sort of Disney or whatever. But so this is the first movie that Pixar made entirely independently. And then it was

sort of just dropped on Disney's lap pretty late into the game. It's a rat. He cooks. Come on, release it. Jesus. I re-watched the movie literally independently and then it was sort of just dropped on disney's lap right and they're like hey it's a rat he cooks come on release it jesus i i re-watched the movie a month or two ago and i'd always loved it but i just don't think i ever really sat down and thought about the fact that it's about a movie it's about a rat who hides in a chef's hat because he has dreams of being a french chef and i was i went to went to Griffin and I was like, this movie is about a rat who pulls a guy's hair. Pulls his hair.

Insane. I mean, it blew my mind. I felt like I had been walking around with a blindfold on forever. And I was like, yep, this is great. And then I was like, holy shit, this is about a rat. And if you went to a studio and pitched this, they would have you arrested.

Yeah, they would execute you. I mean, it's on the verge of insanity. And no judge would convict them. Like, this is their, Pixar is a rat. And if you went to a studio and pitched this, they would have you arrested. Yeah, they would execute you. I mean, it's on the verge of insanity. And no judge would convict them. Like, this is their Pixar is a studio. This is their first big blank check movie where it was literally like, you know what? We have the money. We're going to make our movie. And we know our track record's strong enough. Someone will buy it.

This is the epitome of a blank check. It is also, to use a word that we like to use on this podcast, it's a movie with a premise that is very sweaty. A hundred percent. Incredibly sweaty. Especially the part where you pull the hair to control the body. Right.

I mean, this- Like a horse. This premise is John Goodman on a Stairmaster, you know? It is dripping in sweat. It's Gandolfini eating a chicken parm. And yet this movie ends up having the lightness of a Lubitsch touch. Agreed. Where you just buy into all of it.

Lubitsch movie is exactly what this is. Which is insane. You cannot summarize this movie without sounding like a lunatic. This is true. It's also quite long for an animated movie. 150. It's an hour and 50 minutes, which is pretty long. The Pixar movies were usually tight 90 or so.

Right. And the Iron Giant was 90 minutes long. And how long is The Incredibles? I forget. An hour and 40 minutes. Yeah, I think, I mean, animation's so expensive that there was always a thing where, like, studios didn't want to make animated films that were longer than 90 minutes. Right.

They were usually 90 with credits. And also you want to, like, squeeze in the show time. Kids, adults aren't going to see them, keep the attention spans. So it's very telling that Pixar was like, we don't have to care about anything now. We're paying the bills ourselves, so let's make a fucking two-hour Rat Chef movie. I also do feel like out of all the Pixar movies, this one, to me, seems the most like it's catered towards adults.

Yes. And it ends on like a Proust reference. Exactly. It's sophisticated. It's very sophisticated. And it's about a lot of grown-up people and a rat, but mostly people who have a job in a kitchen what were you gonna say joey well i was just gonna say that having said all the things we just said about it obviously whatever uh jan was doing with it yeah which you know we'll never know but whatever

he was creating they at a certain point were like this is just not working because it's an incredibly difficult premise and like really hard to get right. And he was a first-time director, and he wasn't getting it. We don't know exactly. There's some struggle over, he could not reconcile the grossness of the rat in the kitchen. Apparently, that was a big part of it.

Everyone's brain would just shut off. They'd be like, no, the rat's in the kitchen. But I will say, I hate rats really more than anything, but I'm never watching and think, wow, it's gross that there are rats in the kitchen. But that part of that is, and this is something that Brad Bird has said in interviews, is that when he came in

and he saw the design that they had for the rats at that point, which I don't think we have seen, we don't know what that looked like. He was like, no, throw that away. So it must have been a lot grosser than what they were going to put. I get a little grossed out when they're all in the kitchen. When you see them squaring is like just because the sight of many rats is alarming that is alarming but there is

that moment where they go in the dishwasher which is very cute and it's so cute at that moment i'm like wow i want a pet rat like yeah let me get a rat sous chef exactly i know someone who has a pet rat i don't get it i don't either she instagrams videos of it yeah like eating cheese and i'm always just like yo that's a rat but uh in this movie yeah it's cute they're cute it is but i also think it's incredible that the movie doesn't feel like it's trying too hard to make them cute or shy away from them being rats like it has them walk on fours for a majority of the movie. They move strangely. When they're in large packs, it does

have that weird, just sort of innate, unsettling... It's a swarm. They don't wear clothes, which a lot of other animation studios probably would do for no reason. You compare it to A Bug's Life, where they make the ants blue and they have two arms and two legs.

Very, very cartoony and different. This is a movie that's all about needles threaded perfectly. There's also really that moment where he catches the rat for the first time and he doesn't talk. He just really acts like a rat. That's a choice I love.

It's so good. But it is... This is a movie where it has to be plausible enough that he can't talk to the rat because the rat doesn't is so good. Yeah. But it is... But that's what I'm saying. It's like, this is a movie where it has to be plausible enough that he can't talk to the rat because the rat doesn't speak English, but implausible enough

that the rat can control him by touching his hair. Right. And it just like, like you said, threading needles. Like that is a thin line to walk to like make that all believable.

So by all accounts, what happened was November 2004, Incredibles comes out. It's a massive success. He wins the Oscar. And then, very shortly thereafter, Lasseter comes to him.

Lots of hug and bear himself, John Lasseter. How could you have done this to us, John? That was just Griffin talking to John. That was me just screaming at the skies. We trusted you were the chosen one.

Well, Brad Bird was working on something else. He was working on a script for a live action movie. 1906. 1906. He wanted to make a film about the great San Francisco earthquake. And for a moment that was happening and then it wasn't happening. And then so I think when Lasseter went to him, he was kind of just like sitting around because that project was solved. What is,

what is that project? Okay. So it's this story about like San Francisco, like crumbling to ruins in 1906. And his pitch was based on a nonfiction book. His pitch was, I want to do Titanic except instead of a boats entire city. But like,

so who's it centered on? It was, it was never crack it, but it was who's it centered on? They could never crack it. But it was going to be centered on some kid who was figuring out that this was about to happen, something like that. It sounds like a frustrating movie, honestly. I don't know. They always said the number one reason it never got made is he never felt like they could totally crack the emotional center of the story.

But that was his pitch was, can I place an emotional center? Like a city-sized disaster movie. It was going to be a $200 million film that Warner Brothers was going to co-produce with Pixar. Not with Disney. No, I remember that. It was going to be a Pixar live action. Yes.

Which would have been huge. And that was his plan. Okay, resting a little bit after Incredibles, then I'm going to do that. And Lasseter comes to him and goes, look, Ratatouille is a fucking mess. This is the first movie we're going to have in a distribution deal with whatever new company we sign with. I got this rat movie. We're too deep in it to scrap it. It is so crazy just to think.

Right. So there's this, you know, about the rat movie. Have you been on the third floor where the rat movie is? And the original title was Rats! Was it really? Yes. Wait, really? It was Rats!

Ratatouille is a genius. I mean, the way they did that is is genius disney just got it just the other day yeah i didn't know you texted us we like oh rat i just thought of the dish right no yeah of course you know that's where i go but i i wonder was the dish in the movie i wonder i don't think't think so. I think that was a Brad Bird move. But I think it's smart. What is... Because even from just a culinary level, Ratatouille is... That's the beauty.

We'll get to it. That's like a really classic French dish. But the fact that he goes with something that simple is also... Exactly. I mean, that's the beauty of the whole movie. There's no way that the Anton Ego stuff was in it before. That's Brad Bird. Pure Brad Bird.

100%. That is where this movie becomes fucking galaxy brain good. No, we don't know that much about what was in the old draft, what was in the new draft.

The old draft was probably like the rats in the kitchen, he cooks the food, you know, but also in the old draft, Gusteau was alive, right? I know that Brad Bird

killed Gusteau. Yes. With his hands. Yeah, murdered him. That was his first day on the job, he was like, bring me Gusteau and they brought this cute, fat, cartoon chef voiced by Brad Garrett.

And he was like, I don't see you. Yes. But they just say to him, we need this film. It's supposed to come out next year. If we give you an extra year, do you think you can make this movie good with all the elements we're already stuck with?

Like they'd essentially build the sets, build the characters, have the basic plot line. Can you retrofit it? And he was like, I didn't want to do another movie so soon. And he wanted to do live action. Yep. But I think Brad Bird with that infinite chip on his shoulder wanted to prove that he could pull it off and saw something in the story of what he connects to about the idea of someone who is capable of greatness not being allowed to fulfill that greatness the thing that

is often mischaracterized i believe as objectivism when i think it is a uh a sort of cry for recognizing exceptionalism because in every brad movie, the character with the most power uses that power for good towards others, which is the opposite of what Ayn Rand preaches. Sure. I mean, I think this is his ultimate movie about the things we've already talked about, which is he is an exacting artist who thinks a lot about the nature of being creative. And this is a movie about being creative. Wouldn't let him do things his way, even though he knew he was right right and he's a little rat yeah and he's got to sneak in under a hat into that kitchen yeah but then he did it so he he pulled it off and it's uh one of the best movies up it's a wonderful movie i think yeah i was saying this to joey all right

a while the other day i think it's his best movie. It's always a point off between this and Incredibles. The Incredibles is like my favorite and I love it. Yeah. And I think it's probably The Incredibles is kind of

a better, more perfect movie. I think this one holds up better because I watched The Incredibles again recently. I haven't seen it in a little while. It wasn't quite quite as impactful as I remember. I could see that being true. And also like The Incredibles is just like it's just a home run. it wasn't quite quite as yeah impactful

as I remember I could see that being true and also like The Incredibles is just like it's just a home run it's just like whereas this movie has flaws and it has things that are weird

and like it's a little sweaty like we talked about but then it's also like it's reaching so far it leaves you with things you're thinking about and it also feels masterful

largely because he's attempting to do the impossible like we all agree that this premise is fucked and that disney should have just swallowed their money and canned it you know um which makes it more impressive and this is a perfect movie for me to like um sort of amplify the idea that a perfect movie does not mean a movie without flaws because like for example almost every french accent in this movie is bad sure yet i think this movie's perfect right it's so french actor is

involved with this zero french actors i know this is unavoidable but i hate movies that take place in a country and they speak english and everyone speaks in an in the accent but doesn't speak the language i know that if pixar made a entirely in French, that would not go over well. But it's annoying nonetheless. At least Linguini is American. So there's like half a justification for why they're speaking in English to him. Why is he called Linguini? Because his mom was one silly bitster.

I always hated that. I think that's just too much. You don't need another food reference too. His name does not need to be a food reference. But he does kind of look like a spaghetti.

I mean I guess that's the reason. He has total linguine vibes. But that's the other thing. Brad Bird essentially I think drops the entire cast save for Ian Holm.

I think that was the only person who was on the Pink of Aversion. Oh sure. The legend I've always heard for who was originally playing Remy is Rob schneider

great great uh rats he comes in and at this point the movie's such a like mess and they don't have anyone breathing over their shoulder because they haven't picked a studio yet but he just starts throwing passes and he's like i like the pat noswald the kfc bowl right he heard the famous bowl bit yeah isn't that literally it right Right, a failure pile and a bowl of sadness. A failure pile and a sadness bowl. Like, I think he just thought that his passion for food was somehow communicated, right? I mean, he has the perfect voice. It's an incredible voice performance.

It's hard to imagine someone else doing it, I suppose, at this point. Then he gets Pedro Toulin, one of his final performances. I mean, that's just a home run. And then who do you cast as the human lead? Oh, of course. Lou Romano from Down the Hall. Right.

Like, he's an animator, right? Yeah. I mean, like, the cast in this movie is insane. Yeah, it's good. Janine Garofalo at arguably her moment of least relevance.

That's true. She's doing a thicker accent than the rest of them, which is also odd. It's weird. Her accent is also bad. It's true. She's doing a thicker accent than the rest of them, which is also odd. Her accent is also bad. It's bad. She's really going for it. She's good, but the accent's crazy. That's the whole thing about this movie where you're like, this premise makes no

fucking sense, yet the movie's a masterpiece. The accents are all terrible, yet every performance is good. The movie is just somehow pulling off these death-defying acts. The flaws almost make it better because it makes you really think about how much you still like it. And here's, talk about like, you know, this movie like working in spite of flaws.

First 15 minutes of this movie are what every shitty screenwriter teacher would tell you not to do. The first, the opening is insane. I remember seeing it in theaters having, like I'd fallen in love with Brad Bird after The Incredibles, which is weird as we said is like such a carefully constructed movie that opens. I mean, God, it's opening sequence is amazing.

It's amazing, but it's something that is like so meticulously put together to give you all this information and set the tone and all this stuff. This has the record scratch open. You're wondering how I ended up. First, that really shouldn't be there. But then you have 15 minutes of all the crazy rats. It's like insane. That's not me.

That's me. I forgot how much of the rat family there was in the beginning of the movie. There's a ton of the rat family. There's a ton. Like Brian Dennehy is rat dad of... Jango. His old... Unratted.

The character's name is Jango. That's true. Yes, Raleigh, don't know me. That's a yes. Raleigh's shaking her head. Joey, Joey, Joey. Do you have a bunch of this old woman? And like, I think the first sort of indicator

that things are just going to happen in this movie that you have to go with is when the woman pulls out the shotgun and starts shooting the rats with it. Because that doesn't make any sense in any universe. And then also when her ceiling falls on her. I think that's the single most disturbing image in the entire movie. When they all fall down.

It's when the chandelier falls and you see so many rats. That is so much more disturbing than seeing them in a kitchen. This is true. It is an alarming thought to think like they're in your walls. They have a whole city. Because rats in a kitchen in that capacity is so unbelievable. Right. because rats in a kitchen in that capacity is so unbelievable right but rats falling from your ceiling

somehow seems plausible in the worst way possible yeah do you know who voices the brother yes it's Pete Sohn who directed

The Good Dinosaur yes but also is a guy who took over The Good Dinosaur very late interesting okay but another

Pixar guy yeah right like two of the five leads of this movie are pixar guys who both nail it do you know who plays the butler the butler what do you do john ratzenberger brad bird apparently plays antonico's butler oh interesting he's also the teaser trailer for this movie is all brad bird as a waiter uh describing the dish it's one of those

i don't remember that this is is when Pixar used to do teaser trailers that were all original animation. Yeah, I remember. Because there was that WALL-E teaser trailer that was like, this is a special movie that we thought of. And ASMR. I was dying to see the WALL-E trailer

because I love silent comedies and robots. Right. So it was like my most anticipated movie of all time. Right. And was so disappointed when before the screening, that trailer came up and I was like, it's a fucking like PowerPoint presentation of all the other movies they've made.

Yeah. You get two seconds of WALL-E at the end. But yes, the movie starts with Gusteau on the TV, watching this black and white set, explaining the legacy of Gusteau. That's right. And then goes into like hyperdrive, ding dong. God, we're just starting to talk about the plot.

This is... Okay, let me get the door quickly. Ding dong, ding dong, ding dong. Okay, I'm coming. Hey. Hello? Hello. Is this the Audioboom Studios?

That's where we are. It's on the wall. Right there. Then I am correct in my assumption that i had located the audio boom studios well hello sir who are you well perhaps you recognize me from the fact that i detected my location so well oh i know who it is my double mustache double mustache yes two mustaches my name is rickie per, and I am probably the greatest detective in the world. Probably because I don't want to sound boastful.

Of course, of course. Hello, Hercule. Thank you. Welcome to our studio. Let me twirl each of my mustaches. Has there been a crime? Are you here to solve the murder of Al Pacino, who's still in the corner there? Yeah! Let me sleep!

All right, he's still alive. Roger, roger! It is too late for that man there's nothing i can do okay well what's up then i am probably the greatest detective in the world but i am only the third best surgeon uh fair enough fair enough what's that what's up then there is a mystery that has been driving me crazy what's the mystery how can i shave both of my mustaches at an affordable price i have two mustaches one on top of the other. Do you?

Google image it. Wow, you seem mad about this. I know you're in the room with me, but I'm telling you this is very well vetted. Just like my accent. Well, I have I wasn't aware of your mustache issue. It just looks like

the one mustache to me. I would argue it's two, and I will argue this until my dying day. And I'm sure Griffin would agree with me. Yeah, I agree. Listen. It's weird how you shoved him out of the way of the microphone. Look, I am the world's, probably the world's greatest detective,

but I'm not good at standing up, so I had to take the chair. All right. Well, let me just tell you about Dollar Shave Club. Let me tell you my conflict. Let me tell you my conflict first Let me tell you my conflict. Oh wow, your accent. Where'd it go? Hercule, you're going to need a

magnifying glass. Is Janine Groffel voicing this character? Let the man do his thing. Let me tell you my conflict. I've been taking a lot of pro bono cases. It's a very long bit.

One dollar to spend it's not a bit it's a very sincere mystery and the crazy thing is we only have to do a minute and it always takes three minutes to set it up I don't know what you're talking about

I'm trying to solve a mystery I thought it was very good by the way I know you guys should talk about it I thought it was a great job how you solved the murder. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I don't know if you noticed, but the murder was on the Orient Express. Well, can I tell you, Dollar Shave Club, yes, that Dollar Shave Club delivers everything

you need to look, feel, and smell your best. You name it. Shampoo, conditioner, body wash, toothpaste, hair gel, Dr. Carver's Shave Butter. What? And I get these through my Dollar Shave Club membership, which delivers these wonderful products to my house. Dr. Carver was a classmate of mine. He is probably the best shave butter maker in the world.

Well, as you were learning surgery, he was learning shave butter making. Yes, of course. Well, Dollar Shave Club makes products for your hair, for your face, for your skin, for your shower. And they have me looking, feeling amazing, as you, I'm sure, have already detected. David, I understand that you have an episode to record and I've already taken up much time. Yes. But can I ask you one thing in confidence? Ben, Davey Sims, Rom Newman, can you please all earmuff?

Oh, yeah, guys. Cover your ears. Dave, there is one mystery I've never been able to solve it is my white whale my Moby Dick. Uh oh. I know what you're gonna say.

How can I stop my butt from being so stinky David? Well I have a stinky butt David. You know they include butt wipes in their packages too. Sacre bleu.

I'm from Belgium but I'm still appropriating that phrase. Fair enough. I mean same Belgium, but I'm still appropriating that phrase. Fair enough. I mean, same language. Yes. At least in half the country. Sure. Well, I use Dollar Shave Club for just about everything. Tin tin. And they have gift memberships and e-cards

if you want to give it as a gift as well. Oh, fantastic. I will run to a computer right now and place an order without the promo code. Alright, well, listen up. No, no, no. Just hang on one more second. What? Here's a great way to try a bunch of Dollar Shave Club's products. For just five bucks, you can get their daily essential starter set. It comes with body cleanser,

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That's dollarshaveclub.com slash check. So I check to make sure that I've typed in dollarshaveclub.com? No, you go to dollarshaveclub.com slash check. Okay, well then, off to the computer I go. All right, get out of here. And also call that man an ambulance. Can we take our hands off her? He's done talking about his butt.

What about me? Who's that? Detective Dormer. No, no, you stay there for a while, Detective. Fine, let me sleep. Let's go back to talking about the movie. It's always crazy how sweaty it feels in here after those. It's like Giamatti in August.

Five comedy points. Five comedy points. So with a lot of voiceover, Remy very quickly explains his entire condition. He's a rat? No one around him appreciates food. They literally eat garbage, but he has a taste for the finer things.

I wouldn't call that a condition. I would call that a gift. A privilege of refined palate. Sure. What else? Stad only wants to use it to help sniff out poison. Right. Which is a nice little detail.

He's a poison sniffer. I identify with Remy because I know Griffin's falling his eyes because I'm going to just talk about my lovely gift. I know Griffin's falling his eyes because I'm going to just talk about my lovely gift. But I started cooking when I was very, very young. And I started doing day-long stages at restaurants over the summer or on weekends. Hiding under hats, yeah. And hiding under hats, yes. And people give you a lot of shit. If you don't look like a chef, if you aren't the age of a chef, if you're a woman,

you get a lot of people don't believe that you can cook. And what this movie illustrates so beautifully is that anyone can cook. Anyone can cook, but a great chef can come from anywhere. But not everyone can be

a great chef. But in all seriousness, it does do a really good job of depicting restaurant culture. Right. Restaurant kitchens are a terrifying place. The Colette character is very crucial for all that, I feel like. Yeah. And at first I was like, oh, she's too upset. She's too angry.

Because a lot of female chefs feel like they need to put on this very tough exterior because it's such a hard environment. And you can't let your guard down or else people won't believe that you have the skill set needed. And you need the backbone, right? Because it's such a physically demanding job. A tough place. But she quickly just illustrates that it's hard for her and that she needs to really pull her weight and be extra hardworking so that she can get the respect she deserves.

Right. And all of a sudden that character comes down. I mean, I think they easily could have made her just a villain in the movie. A hundred percent. And her character really, really helps the movie. You talking about the fact that you've grown to like this movie more the older you get. The other thing that I think has made you appreciate this movie more

and I'm not projecting here, you've told me this directly, is that you have had the opportunities in the last couple of years but when you were still a teenager to work in restaurants for short periods of time or intern in kitchens and you always hated the environment of the

kitchen and you always say like Ratatouille totally gets it right about sort of how ugly and competitive and judgmental it is. Right. And one summer, my mom got me like a really great opportunity to spend a day working in this French restaurant kitchen. And I was so excited because the food they made was amazing. And it was just, you know, a big deal. I was still really young and I was really excited. And it was awful because they didn't believe that i could cook the guys

were disgusting you were a little rat french guys are gross i'm sorry not to make a generalization but they are yeah and uh i felt really kind of defeated at the end of the day yeah and i so i think re-watching this I really, really, really felt for everyone in the movie. Yeah. So Remy unlike Brad Bird is someone who just believes there's no chance he is ever going to be able to

be what he wants to be. He is a rat. Right. I'm going to enjoy food when I can. Sure. The great moment where they have the mushroom that gets electrocuted, and now he's got this sort of roasted mushroom on a stick. Yeah, it's smoky, but not quite, what do you call this?

Lightning-y. Lightning-y. I've never wanted a mushroom more. Hey, look, I mean, mushrooms are going to have to do some real damage control in 2018, because 2017 was the year of don't eat mushrooms. The Guild, Phantom Thread, was there another one? There was a third one I can't remember. There were three movies in which mushrooms were a fatal problem the omelette makes and phantom phantom thread looks so good oh so much she's making it i was like oh i want

that so badly i mean i know i know it's gonna happen but oh yeah i also just like the end of phantom thread like the actual last shot is him being like all right get out of here because i'm gonna i'm gonna be pooping for six hours diarrhea like like because i had remembered actual last shot is him being like, all right, get out of here. Cause I'm going to be pooping for six hours. Like, like, cause I had remembered the last shot of the movie being like, uh, kiss me like,

yes. Uh, and then no, there's like five more minutes of, you know, like the little fantasy she has of their future. And you're not sure if it's real or not. And then it's just him sitting on the toilet.

Anyway, that's such a funny movie. Um, Joey, yes. get us back on track. But Brad Bird's way into this, whatever this might say, I don't know if we want to get into whatever this might say about Pixar, but his way into it, despite everything, despite the way that it accurately depicts all the unpleasant things about the creative environment of the restaurant,

is that he is obsessed with the beauty of the creative process. That is his thing. That's the whole thing for him. That is also there at the same time. My favorite, I mean, there's a million great moments you could pick out of that. But one of my favorites and one of the early ones is when Remy is watching over the kitchen when he first gets there in the window above. And he's like just talking about what everyone does,

what all their roles are. And he keeps saying how everyone is important, which is something that Bird would also strongly believe. And that's another thing I like because I actually have just spent time watching people cook in restaurant kitchens. And that's a great experience because there is kind of beautiful orchestra environment where everyone is doing one thing. restaurant kitchens, and that's a great experience because there is kind of beautiful orchestra environment where everyone is doing one thing.

And also I think a great thing about restaurant kitchens is that a lot of times there are 10 people working on one dish. You know, you have the saucier, you have someone who's just cutting vegetables, you have someone who's doing mise en place, you have someone who's cooking the meat, and it all kind of comes together. So even though the environment isn't necessarily a friendly one,

everyone's working towards creating one thing. But it is very similar to filmmaking in that sense. Especially to animation, which is so many all hands on deck. I also think the other real in for Brad Bird in this story is, and I think this is very telling that he kills Gusteau when he inherits it, is that Gusteau is Walt Disney. That's the thing. Gusteau is so obviously the Disney or whatever.

Gusteau, the character, is Walt Disney, and Gusteau's in its current condition is Disney when he was working on The Fox and the Hound. Disney in the 1980s, where they're just like, just slap Disney on and it'll sell. Who cares? And he's saying, like, don't you remember what this place used to be? Can we make great movies? And they're like, we want to make

fucking corn fritters. Money. Skinner is Roy Disney, or whoever was in charge. Right, Eisner, any number of revolving doors. I guess he's Eisner. The brand's strong enough, put dog ears on Gusteau, slap in a freezer.

And that's another thing, I think that there were so many amazing chefs who have this really hard situation where when they get really famous and their restaurants start to gain recognition and they're approached with so many different deals. It's like

do you really want to put your face on a freezer lasagna? And it's hard. I think some chefs, it's money but it does tarnish the brand. And it's hard. I think some chefs, it's money, but it does tarnish the brand. And I also, I think a lot of consumers, they're like,

oh my God, Blank Chef made this. It must be amazing. And you realize that they have nothing to do with this. Their face is on it. It's not created by them. They're on the kitchen

making this recipe. It should be noted that Blank Chef is the name of our bistro which we're opening fall 18. And what you just described is like Brad Bird's nightmare and it's a part of why it took

him so long to make any movie or at least this is the way he describes it and who knows how reliable of a narrator he is of his own career but he describes it as like for years I couldn't get anything made because people didn't want to do it the way that I believed it should be done and wouldn't let me have total control

and now he's been, of course, unjustified in that narrative. In the expected movies, right. And David and I were looking at Don Bluth's filmography yesterday. And it's like, that guy directed fucking 10 movies in like 11 years.

And animated movies take four years. And some of them were good. And some of them feel like one of 12 movies a guy directed. Right, yes. Right. But Brad Bird didn't want to license himself out. He's an exacting

artist. And I think what's very telling about his worldview is the fact that Gusteau is still very successful. Gusteau is very famous. It's doing fine. People are going. Now, it's critically reviled, but that doesn't stop the money from coming in.

But they sort of romantically say that Gusteau died of a broken heart after Anton Egon gave the bad review. Yes, and he lost the star. But also it's the curse of having the five stars and the three Michelin stars. Ascending from greatness. All you can do is lose them. But the fact is, at the moment he dies, he loses a star, but he's still set. He's a brand name, he's got a TV show. He's got books.

But what matters to him most is the idea that he's producing great work. And if he feels like he's dropped on that, that like destroys him. Destroys him. And meanwhile, everyone else is like, we're gustos. We're fine. Tours are going to come here. Communism is really what killed Walt Disney. That is true.

The specter of communism. Yes. Well, it didn't kill him. It just froze him in a jar. Yeah. Coldest war of all so remy there's all the business at the beginning with the rat family and brian dennehy but you know it's sweaty whatever it's a lot of voiceover but i also can imagine that when

brad bird got the script he was like jesus christ the first hour of this movie's table setting sure maybe there's so much shit i just need to inelegantly get all of this out as quickly as possible so we can get him in the kitchen you could imagine you still could imagine a version of it where none of that was there though yeah but he keeps it partly because i think he i don't know well i don't know but like he gets into the beauty of certain sequences certain ideas that he can do such as the moment when the rats come down out of the house and then they all escape out of the house on like rafts right in the rain with the grandmother shooting down out of the house and then they all escape out of the house on like rafts in the rain with the grandmother shooting at them with a shotgun,

which like when you describe what that sequence is, that's crazy. Insane. But it's so good. It's so fun. And he puts his entire family in danger because he needs to find the right food to pair with the mushroom. It's also right.

It's the beginning of that visual thing he's doing where the screen blacks out behind the rat as they eat and like the taste is represented as these weird little animatics. With all these weird colored shapes. And I think also, I'm not sure, but I do think Brad Bird likes and maybe he relates to it in some way,

the idea of art clashing with the family, whatever your family expects of you. How difficult it can be for your father or your brother, whatever, to understand like creative passion. Sure. Which is a strange thing to explain to someone.

Yes. Where it's like, I just want to cook food. And they're like, food is fine. This is a sandwich. It's great. Food is fuel is the term he uses. Well, he says food is fuel. I mean, he's a rat.

I mean, he has the right idea for- Now shut up and eat your garbage. He's a very large rat. Can we just say that? Brian Dennehy It's a Dennehy sized rat. It's like a Dennehy sized rat. So he gets swept into Paris. He realizes he's in Paris. He realizes he's at

Gusteau's. Let's not skip through. There's so many. You enter a section where there are so many beautiful sequences and probably one of my favorite is him going through the walls of all the different buildings before he realizes that he's in Paris and going past

all of these different. The couple fighting with the gun who then start making out. I forgot about that. He goes through like a dinner party and like oh yes it's all of these different very French slightly stereotypical but whatever images and that's when some also when some elegance starts

getting introduced into the narrative, starts getting a little less sweaty. When he washes up in the sewers, and he's sort of crawling through the rafters and all this sort of stuff, from the point that he gets separated from his family, voiceover is largely gone. Yes. Comes back at the very end. I suppose.

Because now they set up the new device of Remy finds this Gusteau cookbook and starts imagining Gusteau talking to him. Yes. I love that the movie acknowledges very early on that this is Remy's manifestation of his internal monologue. It's not Gusteau. It's not like he doesn't have all the answers because...

Because the I have a son bit is very funny. He's like, I have a son? He's like, don't you know that? He's like, I don't know that. It's a fig him in the spirit world. Because the I have a son bit is very funny. He's like, I have a son? He's like, don't you know that? He's like, I don't know that. It's a figment of your imagination. But it's also, it's almost like, I mean, not to overanalyze, it's almost like Brad Bird saying, all right, so this is kind of a cheap narrative device that I'm using right now.

Sorry, I'm just trying to make this work. It's like he's making fun of himself. Right. Yeah. That's fair. But they've also set up the really brilliant thing. He does it so fucking elegantly. trying to make this work it's like he's making fun of himself right yeah yeah that's fair but they've also set up the really brilliant thing he does it so fucking elegantly when they're in the kitchen and the old woman before she shoots them sees remy and he's yelling

for his family to get out and it cuts to her pov and he's just going squeaking yeah so it's like okay we got two languages here but also his body language totally changes depending on whether he's talking to other rats. He tends to be more hind leggy versus when he's around humans, he moves more like a traditional rat. Right. Which is just like so fucking elegant. He's such a good director. So Remy climbs up and realizes he's in Paris of all places. Yeah.

What are the odds? And so close to Gusteau's. He's close to Gusteau. Crawls there, is looking of all places. Yeah. What are the odds? And? So close to Gusteau's. He's close to Gusteau. Crawls there, is looking through the ceiling. Sure. The skylight. Looking at this gorgeous kitchen. Beautifully designed kitchen.

Is it an accurate kitchen, Romilly? Like, geographically? I mean, that would be one of the nicer kitchens. Sure. Sure. Sure. I mean, I guess it's a fancy, famous old restaurant. But it tracks.

The kitchen makes sense, right? The stove, that's like a cornu stove. That's a real stove. Right. They thought about it. They did their research. It's not just let's make a pretty kitchen.

Let's make a kitchen we think is the French kitchen of our dreams. Right. It holds up. It's not a Nancy Meyers movie is what you're saying. It's not a Nancy Meyers movie.

Do not go slamming Meyers in front of Rom. I'm sorry. I love Nancy Meyers. I will say it's not a Nancy Meyers movie. It's factually not a anti-Meyers movie.

From a logistical standpoint, not an anti-Meyers movie. They did a lot of research, right? I remember watching the documentary where Brad Bird was like, yeah, we had to do so much research at French gourmet restaurants. There's like mini-DV footage of Brad Bird pointing at an underling and the underling is measuring the cobblestones in the streets of paris right and brad bird's like sifting wine he's got a gun that he's firing in the air and like i think brad bird also loved this concept that he brought which was like this can be like a physical like a yes like almost like a silent movie or something you can

be a lot of physical humor because of the narrow kitchen. Like there's so much to play around with there. Right, it sort of becomes a comedy of manners in a weird way. Certainly in the first third is when the Linguini thing is happening. So that's, Remy observes the entrance of a young gangly man named Linguini. A Griffin Newman-esque figure.

Stretched out. Yeah, right, right. If you put me on one of those medieval torture racks and you dyed my hair red. Yes. And he has shown up on the doorstep with a note from his mother, who was an old friend of Gusteau's, asking them to hire him. Yes. And Will Arnett, as the murderous chef. Great performance.

Great performance. The guy with the thumbs. As Horst. Yes. Has already given him a job, which Skinner is very angry about but only as Garbage Boy so fine whatever but he starts looking at that

I like that title you angling for a new title no no no no no I just think it's funny I have to imagine you've had that nickname at least once in your life, Ben. Yeah.

Okay. He sees Linguini get a little tempted and try to throw some spices. It does surprise me that Linguini would want to throw spices in a soup. It's true. Linguini never really has a lot of creative aspirations. No, and you feel like he's the kind of guy who'd be like, yep, I guess I'm just a garbage boy. But I also think, I mean, no, because there's a later section where the success kind of goes to his head. There is.

There is. But that's more the success. Sure. You can see how if his dead mother said, like, go to Paris, go to Gusteau's, they will hire you. Yeah. He spends that entire flight going, oh, I'm going to get to Gusteau's. They're going to train me to become a chef, and that's going to be my career. I was just surprised this sheepish guy is like,

let me do this really bold move. It's a little bit of a story push. Oh, wait, Joey's got an objection. Sorry, people are going to correct you, so I'm just going to correct you right now. He knocks the soup down, and he spills it all over. Oh, that's right. He's trying to recreate it.

He's throwing things in to try to fix his mistakes that no one will know. That's right. And I don't think that he ever has any aspirations to be much of anything. Well, he has the speech where he says, like, I'm the guy who would

follow the recipe. Like, that's what I would do. That's not what Little Chef does. But, like, if I, if it was just me, I would just do whatever's on the card.

He says that thing, like, you know how to cook and I know how to look like a person. A pure human. Right. A pure human, yes. They're each bringing 50% to the table here.

Right. But so Remy cannot sit back. Sees him screwing up the suit. Right. He cannot, like Brad Bird, watching Yamagawa making this movie. Right. I don't know.

But he cannot bear it. Right. And yes, and then he falls into the kitchen. Starts getting fancy with the spices. Yeah. And they, Linguini catches him, spots him.

They find the rat in the kitchen. Yeah, and so he's like, go kill. They chase him out. Linguini is tasked with murdering the rat. And head waiter, John Ratzenberger. Oh, yeah. Right. He's the head waiter?

Okay. Yes. Has already started taking the soup out. Yes. The soup is a hit, and thus Linguini is acclaimed as a budding chef. Right. Right? That's what happens. And he gets tasked with recreating the soup.

Right. So he's caught Remy by the sin. Okay. Has him in the jar. They have this beautiful, entirely physical sort of exchange where he realizes that Remy... What are you grabbing? This? Okay.

That Remy made the soup, that he needs Remy, so he goes back into the kitchen with Remy to try to have him give him guidance on recreation from underneath the hat. Okay. And very quickly, accidentally, right? Okay. And very quickly, accidentally, right? Like, Remy is trying to silently, by biting him and stuff, direct him towards the right ingredients. And he sort of pulls the hair just as a way to pull his hands back.

Right. And realizes that he can fucking puppeteer him like a marionette through different locks of his hair. This is the sweatiest part. Which controls different sections of his limb. I cannot believe he pulls this off. Because, go on, Romilly. I do like the fact that it's a little trial and error. Yes. They start with the biting and it's like, let's find another solution.

Makes no sense, but I'd still. And the movie does also argue that they spent a lot of time working the system out. I know. That's what I appreciate. But it's just like the fine motor skills required to be a chef it's not just like he needs to walk him around right it's like so intricate we have to do with your hands and fingers and the chopping that but again you just have to the montage has to sell you yes right like the montage of them figuring every blindfolded right and remy is seeing it without his vision can i perfectly

make an omelet right and eventually doesn't he without his vision can I perfectly make an omelette? Right. And eventually he doesn't. He makes the little omelette too. The little omelette is when this movie goes from like five to six stars

out of five. You know what I mean? When he cuts it with the key. He has the key. Guys, sorry. I take it back. I mean, that almost made me cry

more than Coco. It's beautiful. It's beautiful he doesn't get to eat it. I know, which is annoying. That is what's devastating. Your least favorite thing in movies is when people make beautiful food and don't eat it. People make good food doesn't get to eat it which is devastating that is what's devastating that's your least favorite

thing in movies is when people make beautiful food and don't eat it people make good food and they can't eat it Devil Wears Prada with the steak

the steak that goes in the steak girls burn and the cheese sandwich but as we already maybe we already said this but all of the food in this movie looks amazing

we didn't say it and it's very important the movie wouldn't work if it didn't the food is incredible they must have worked so hard on it the thing

that impresses me the most is how good the bread looks because bread feels particularly difficult to render in CGI and make look

organic that scene where they crunch it well that's Colette very quickly is tasked with right Colette's in charge of him which is

the shit job clearly you have some good food instincts, but you're not trained. You're not properly trained. So Colette's going to put you through the ringer. And she gives that great monologue about everything she's had to fight through to be a chef. Right. Running down what everyone else has been through. Gun smuggler.

Murderer. Right. And yet I am the most feared woman in this kitchen. Do you know why that is? Because she's fucking tough as shit she's intense gotta keep your arms like this is that a thing?

that whole monologue she does where she's like keep your arms tight next to your body there are always people there are always people running around and you kind of have to stay compact the cuff thing the burns on the arm for me one of my biggest points of pride running around and you kind of have to stay compact. Sure. The cuff thing, yeah.

The burns on the arm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, for me, one of my biggest points of pride is like having burns from cooking, which just seems ridiculous.

But I think there is a thing with chefs where it's like, these are my battle scars. Like, a chicken gave me this. Right. Yeah.

But again, also for Bert, it's just about getting in every like element of like this, the beautiful creative process. And this is the element of learning, of opening your ears and listening to the people who know what they're doing and following. The wise old men at Disney Studios, you know? It's like you got to learn from the greats.

True. And she finds in him something she maybe wouldn't necessarily find in all the men of war. He's actually listening to her and following her. Now, Remy is listening to her because he wants to absorb all this information. Really, it's Remy who's listening. Right. Linguini is just crushing hard. Crushing real, real hard on this nice lady.

Because he's a bit of a goober, Linguini. He is a bit of a goober. No more than a bit. He's a tit of a goober, Linguini. He is a bit of a goober. No, more than a bit. He's a titanic fool. Yes. So now the other thing that's being set up concurrently is that Skinner,

who is just selling out Gusteau's name, finds a letter, arrives in the mail, revealing that Linguini is the late Gusteau's son. Right. And this is where you have the classic element

of any kid kids animated movie. The scene where the chef meets with his lawyer and they discuss They discuss disputing the wills. It's a long, dry scene too. That's why this movie is so good. So good.

Yes, absolutely. I also like referring back to the Gusteau thing where the ghost is a fantasy. It's like it's clear that the real Gusteau was maybe more of a flawed guy. He has this illegitimate son who he never like dealt with and like didn't talk to. Like, and I love that.

That like the fantasy guy is like, yeah, I guess. I mean, maybe I was just shithead. I don't know. Like, you know. Maybe I sucked. Yeah. Yeah. But right.

Linguini is owed the restaurant, which let's be fair like he doesn't really deserve no he wouldn't know how to run it and so much of this movie is about that where it's like just you know just because you've got the name or you've got the rep or you're roy disney yeah maybe wow i mean jesus maybe brad was really grinding some axes like for some 1980s axes but yeah no it's like uh that that does not convey quality and nor you know but like that's that's the great chef can come from anywhere but not everyone is a great chef it's about one thing it's about doing the work yeah which is somewhat ayn randian of him but whatever i love it but it's also he wants the work to help others

right but there's all the focus on the i don't i'm no rand, but there's all the focus on the... I don't... I have no randex, but there's all the expert focus on the whole kitchen and all of the people who are elements of it. There's something collective. The idea is not that Remy can do it by himself, especially not Remy,

because he's a rat. He needs all of them. That is true. He is but a small rat. Trust the people who are capable of exceptionalism so that they can do what they are meant to do. Sure. And this is right.

This is where people wonder things about Brad Bird. Because it's easy to take this down the road. But it doesn't matter. We don't have to dig too far into that. So Skinner goes on a quest. Yeah, we'll talk about that tomorrow. Skinner goes on a quest to get a hair yeah he wants a hair right there's also that great bit where he grabs the hat off his head

that i think is funny yes well he's also convinced that remy is talking to a rat which also feels like i think that's really funny yes that's like a good bit um he figures out yes what the plot of the movie is he figures out the plot of the movie and he's like but no i must be insane and then he does go insane right it's it's the movie like calling itself out right it's for being so absurd right where it's like if he has fully cracked the plot of the film everyone would think he's insane well and there's that scene where he talks to the lawyer where he's like he thinks you know he wants me to think that the rat's important but the rat's not important that's a diversion you know which is a really funny scene and ian holmes very he's

a good villain i mean yeah good actor good actor good actor ash ash himself bilbo yes Baggins of course a Bag End I liked it he and his long pipe his wacky tabacky yeah his obsession with the ring he loves that ring power

gotta get that ring hey give me that ring let's keep on stealing Aquaman bits um so proud of you yeah

um but I just love that like rather than make him like a scary villain sure this is a movie that successfully makes its villain very funny without stopping him from being a threat uh yes you're constantly worried that he could fuck things up for our heroes but he's just a laughable person yeah it's a bit of a laughable sad and because what he's correct about is so ridiculous it drives him insane and watching him trying to prove it is like just And because what he's correct about is so ridiculous, it drives him insane.

And watching him trying to prove it is like just good comedy. And he's sort of salarious as well. Because he knows from good food. It's not like when he's eating Remy's food that he thinks it's bad. That's my favorite moment in the entire movie. Yes. And he's like, and we'll get to it. But he just can't be bothered.

He'd rather be successful. He'd rather be successful. He'd rather take it easy. He's in the same mode as many of the cooks in his kitchen who, like, when he gets kicked out and they start trying to make good food again, like, they're happy with that, too. Like, they have that ability. But before, when he was just running it, like, in a more commercial way, they were like, oh, it's fine, too. when he was just running it like a in a more commercial way they were like

oh it's fine too which is not to keep on parsing over this thing but I think that's also part of the Bird thing where it's like some people are super happy just like doing whatever job

they have in front of them and they'll do anything to the best of their abilities and what they need is for Brad Bird to come in exactly and yell at them

yes and pull their hair so that they do what he wants yes I hope not. One hopes not. Who knows what's going on.

How awful would it be if there was an LA Times expose specifically and exclusively about Brad Bird pulling locks of hair? Who knows what's going on inside Pixar? Sure. Who knows? But the hope would be that it would be more along the lines of just pushing people to do their very best work. And that there is good enough. And good enough will get you by most of the time.

But then there's that extra level. On the making of documentaries on this and Incredibles on the Blu-rays, there are a lot of like the animators joking about all the sort of Brad Bird-isms. Like he's not warm, he is terse, he is exacting. Yeah.

But he's not like tyrannical. And they were like, he always does this fucking thing when he comes in to look at a scene where he's like,

great, it's perfect, just one last thing. Right. And you hear just one last thing for six consecutive months. Jesus. You know, you think you've done the one thing

that's going to finally finish the scene and you're good to go, ready to move on to the next thing. He's like, it's perfect. One last thing. There's always some extra spice he wants to put in there. But it's not like it's in vain. You certainly watch the movie and you're like, this guy directed and

wrote the shit out of this thing. Sure. Remy becomes a hit.y becomes a big hit using linguine's body yes he also starts dating uh colette simply because remy couldn't like needs to distract her at some point right like that's how he gets in the make out yes because uh linguine hates that he's keeping the secret from colette who's sure he's going to reveal that there's a rat in his hair. I have a rash. I have a rash.

You have a rash? Right. Yeah. Such a good one. A rash. A rash. Remy pulls the hair to push the kiss. And there's the great moment where she has the pepper spray.

Yes. And then suddenly she goes like, Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. She's great. Right. She's got her motorcycle too she's badass she's a badass no and i find their pairing plausible of course that's the thing it's you know like oh please he's a little boy for her to boss around that's that's that's right and especially because you imagine this is someone who has just not allowed herself to have any sort of social life for 15 years. Right.

You know, like if she's going to date someone, it's going to be in the kitchen. And there hasn't been a suitable boyfriend in the kitchen. Are so long. Right. You know, everyone always says don't date a chef because they leave early in the morning. They come back late at night. Adrian Garnier syndrome. Exactly.

Yeah. So how is it that Skinner gets exposed? Because that's at the end of a whole long sequence with the will oh he gets him drunk yes there's that tries to get him to get him to reveal what's up with the rat and he does admit it but in his drunk way where it's not incriminating where he goes like i have a little chef up here and it sounds like he's talking about his brain. Yes. But then, you know, Remy finds the letter that passes the restaurant. Yes, right. When he's just snooping around with Ghost Gusteau.

Right. And all the different Gusteau cardboard cutouts, which is fun. They let Brad Garrett do his mad TV reel in the middle of the movie. Yeah, they do. Brad Garrett, very good. Very good. Yes, yes, very good. Please do it. That's my saying about Brad movie. Yeah, they do. Brad Garrett, very good. Very good. Yes, yes, very good. Please do it. That's my saying about Brad

Garrett. Yeah, sure. But Remy finds it and tries to get it out of there. Skinner finally sees Remy with his own eyes, with the thing in his mouth. Here we got it, smoking gun. This rat is smart. He's pulling the strings. Exciting chase through Paris, which is a thing I want to talk about briefly.

The action sequences in this movie are so fucking good. They're tremendous. And they're fucking foot chases with rats. Yeah. But he, Brad Bird's always been very good with scale. We talked about with Iron Giant, he's so good at selling the size difference.

Yeah. But usually, you know, from very different scales. Sure. This movie is so good at shifting to when we're at the human level, at the rat level, how one

sees the other, the threats being perceived differently. It's a good point. And the camera moves like a rat. He's able to do these crazy kind of camera movements to like track with Remy and the rats down the streets of Paris. And you just have this fucking awesome thrilling chase that ends with Skinner literally

soaking wet and exposed while Linguini has the will. Yes, and then they just sortini has the will. The will. Yes, and then they just sort of not the only moment where they then just sort of skip over

some stuff. He comes back and they're like, actually, it's Linguini's restaurant and then he's gone. And then we cut to Linguini runs the restaurant.

They play a charming song by Camille. There's a lovely montage where everything goes great. Yes. And everyone's killing it. And people are coming back and the reviews are good all of a sudden. Yes.

Even though Anton Ego has not yet weighed in. No. Which is a big deal. I also like that Linguini is so sort of modest and lacking in ego. Is he waitering at this point or not? No. That only happens later. No, no, no.

This is his second act downfall part where he gets too big for his purchase. He starts thinking like he's the genius because everyone's telling him that he's a genius and not acknowledging the fact that he's doing Zippo work other than appearing human. Linguini, simmer down. Simmer down now, Linguini. Simmer down, Linguini. He is not Al Dente. No.

No. I don't know. So he tosses away Remy, who then gets captured by Skinner. Yes, Skinner, who's got a vendetta at this point. How about that? And then they have their fight. They're always having these conversations out in the backyard.

It's so very strange. And also the rats are being reintroduced at this point. Like Dennehy's back. The brother is back. You've got that great scene with the cheese and the strawberry where he's teaching him about like pallets. Well, isn't that the thing that he catches

a meal but not Remy with the trap? No, he catches Remy with the trap. And then he sees a meal? And a meal helps free him. You know, they do the thing where they like all smash it. How do they free him? But going back to the first thing. Joey's the one who's seen this movie 100 billion times.

You're very good with the facts. I will admit that I own this movie on Blu-ray. Sure. Put it in today. Was happy to watch it. Would not play. Oh. Put it on three different devices.

Oh, dear. It was like a pretty early Blu-ray. Yeah. And I had like from the first. And those Pixar Blu-rays, they're like limited and they don't like. And they also were putting like a lot of games and shit on there when no one knew what Blu-rays, they're limited and they don't... And they also were putting a lot of games and shit on there when no one knew what Blu-ray was as technology. So I had to get on the phone with Disney customer service

to see if there was a firmware update. And they just are going to send me a new, hopefully a steelbook, but they're going to send me the newer Ratatouille DVD that apparently won't have a system incompatible. Because they put it on a PlayStation 4, PlayStation 3, and a fucking Blu-ray player. Bad.

No good, very bad, don't do it. Did you rent it online or something? I rented online, but after that delay, I did not make it to the last half hour of the movie before I had to leave.

Wow. So I'm a little foggy. I haven't only seen the movie four months ago at this point. Sure, sure, sure. I do want to say customer service at Disney, she said, can I help you with anything else today? And at this point. Sure, sure, sure. I do want to say, customer service at Disney, she said, can I help you with anything else today?

And I said, no. And she said, great. I just want to remind you that, of course, Walt Disney's classic Lady and the Tramp is coming back out of the Disney vault next month. So make sure to check that out and have a magical day. Right. And you said, I'll take it.

She dropped it like it was just a casual, like... That's so weird. Of course, it should be noted that Lady and the Tramp... The vault is opening. The vault is opening. I worked briefly as an usher at Aladdin, and I had many... I was very carefully controlled in the way that sort of I moved and in the lines that I said. And there were many occasions on which...

But this is in person rather than over the phone. There were many occasions on which I would say something to people, like when I was operating the elevator or whatever, and someone would just look at me and shake their head and just be like, Disney. I'm standing right here, but I know you mean. What would you like to say? You know, it was a while ago, and I can't remember, but I had like dialogue.

You've got a friend like me in this elevator. It was not quite that bad. We invite you to be our guest. I don't know, that's a different movie. It was not that bad, but it you to be our guest. I don't know. That's a different movie. Yeah. It was not that bad but it was all just like very carefully controlled.

Like little little things like you know I'll mind this mind this step here and like step in here and on this level this is for blah blah blah.

But it was all like in a very scripted way. Did they hit you on the finger pointing? You know at the finger pointing? So I don't know

if you know this. I used to work at the Disney store in Times Square. So we're cousins, Joey. In addition to you and David being brothers, we're cousins through the Disney family now. So I had a similar hellish period of criticisms on the circumference of my wave to entering shoppers not being large enough. Hey, Griffin, we were watching from a few steps back, and what you were doing looked a little like, hi, welcome to Disney, and I'd love to see,

hi, welcome to Disney. Now, do you hear the difference there? A lot of that on a daily basis. It was great. It's the closest I've ever come to suicide. I wish I was joking, but not too close, but the closest. Anyway.

A big thing that they pushed, I just want to throw out this one last anecdote and I know they do this at the parks as well is that you're not allowed to point if you want to give people

directions because it's too aggressive you have to point with two fingers it wears the elevator right down that way two fingers to the left

fair enough yeah anyway they the rats return and yeah and this is where the movie comes back around

to something that you would imagine it might well have just left out, which is like him getting his family to like sort of understand his creative passion. Right. Because they're like, that was a fun little phase, but come back with us, you're a fucking rat. Right. And he's like, no, I'm going to like come visit, but I'm going to keep doing this thing that I'm doing. And then meanwhile, yes, he also shows his brother, tries to show his brother how flavor works. From Audioboom and the minds behind Mafia

comes Covert, a brand new... God, that really hurts my voice. I was going to say, do you need a lozenge or something? Yeah, I think so. Can you read the rest of this? Well, there's this brand new podcast, and it's delving into the shadows to reveal the murky world of international espionage and top-secret military operations

from around the world. And it's from our friends at Audioboom, from our friends sitting next to me, Ben Hosley. It's a Ben Hosley joint? Yeah, it's a BHJ. So this isn't a podcast for people who are fans of Adam Sandler's producing partner and sometimes bit company actor, right, Alan Covert? No.

In all the Happy Massive productions? This is about like covert ops. It's like you're hearing about dangerous military operations and you're hearing about brought to the front line of history's greatest special forces missions. Right, not about the limo driver best friend from the wedding. No, you've got research, you've got expert analysis, eyewitness accounts, journalists talking about soldiers who survived these operations.

So if I love Grandma's Boy, the Alan Covert vehicle, this is not for me? This is definitely a show for history buffs. We're going to look into the assassination of Osama bin Laden. We're going to look into how Israeli snipers foiled a serious plan to develop a nuclear bomb. It's all real stories. Got Blackhawk down in there.

Got Blackhawk down in there. It's all real stories with experts or people who actually were on the ground and witnessed some of the events that we talk about in this show. And I'm hearing this one's hosted by Jamie Rennell. Yeah. Can you confirm or deny? It's not an Alan Covert? You won't tell anyone?

Okay, cool. Well, apparently you can subscribe to Covert on Apple Podcasts and every other listening destination. You know, hopefully Happy Madison will acquire it to produce a dramatic adaptation. That's what every podcast is hoping for. Starting on the coat. So, Anton Ego.

Oh, we skipped over Anton Ego's introduction, which is a great scene where he, well, there's two introductions. Brad Bird is the butler. His introduction with his butler, where he like fishes his review out of like a filing cabinet and is like i i declared this restaurant like i had the last word on this restaurant someone else gave it a good review and he's like i put a nail in that cough what are you talking about gustos is good again he sits at his uh typewriter which looks like a skull and his office looks like a coffin and it is fun it's great though it suggests a more a meaner depiction of a critic than we're ultimately gonna get thank His office looks like a coffin and it is fun. It's great. Though it suggests a more meaner depiction of a critic than we're ultimately going to get.

Thank God. I love the depiction of the critic. No, I think it's great for like a heightened kind of portrayal of a food critic because they are kind of the worst. That's the thing. I won't say names, but a lot of food critics totally have that demeanor and attitude. Yes. I just think. But he's not. But they're not. You know, I mean, obviously we're going to get to it, but there is more, is ultimately more to ego.

This isn't like Birdman level depiction of a critic, you know. Well, right. But I mean, it's like, I think that even though it's very heightened, obviously very exaggerated and he's so evil looking, he's so spindly. Like Brad Bird is trying to wrestle with the power you wield like yeah you know and that's so much of his review that you went on remember when you did like the longest intro ever to this obviously long episode great idea that that was by any time you're welcome you know where it's like he knows how much power he wields and yet he also knows

that he isn't a creator right and there is something so like very icky and speaking as someone who writes reviews sometimes where you're like this person is putting their lives on the line to make this movie you know what i mean that i'm watching and i'm like you know bad stupid and it's not like my reviews will be that you know but like sometimes like you worry about that imbalance where you're like it's so it's so naked like to expose yourself artistically well and there's lines says we're like most often even the worst piece of work will have more lasting value than what i write about it yeah you know right but what right but what he doesn't do what he avoids is that anony Go is not a frustrated

artist. Exactly. Which is the easiest pitfall. Like he just wanted to be a chef himself. Criticism is his art form. Right. Yes.

And he's obviously, he's good at it. Yeah. He cares about it. He's not some, like he's a great writer. But he does have that thing where he's like,

I spit the food out if I like, right? Doesn't he have that line? I don't love it. I don't swallow it. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Can I just point out, just to underline, this movie comes out 11 years ago and it's sort of like a big pendulum swing of anti-intellectualism, right? Sure, right. But also, before a sort of new food culture had taken over in mainstream society, I feel like we're a lot more health conscious than we were in 2007 when everyone was just still going on like, look at supersize me Americans are all fat, only eat fast food. And now like McDonald's...

Hey, too soon. McDonald's is like trying to like... Oh really? You forgot? Because literally every single person... No, but you know like McDonald's is like fucking revising its menu now to be more artisanal because, like, kids don't want to eat food that doesn't seem, like, healthy because healthy is cool.

I wonder how the movie would be different if it was made today. Yeah. Just in terms of the food. I'm going to throw out a crazy hot take. I think this movie actually helped perpetuate the rise of food culture in america because i think like you were a kid who already went in loving food and felt elevated in terms of like the idea of following food as an art form i think the way he talks about food and the way it matters in this movie i feel like a lot of kids your age really cite this movie and you're also like the kids who are going to like eat

better you know more health conscious meal choices and stuff. This movie positions food in such an art form that it's hard to watch it and just have a complete disregard for what you eat because you're watching people for people

you're watching rats and individuals for two hours just waxing poetically about food and putting their whole life into one dish that ultimately is being consumed within a matter of minutes but it's such it's such an art but the whole culture of like food porn on instagram and like the pop-up like gimmick novelty food events that like these places make that like just like takes over the culture and the amount of hip food blogs and all this sort of stuff. I think that part of it is that at least for millennial kids,

seeing this movie at a certain age kind of activated something to view food as art form. The food is so pretty in this movie. That's the other thing, yeah. Yeah, you're disagreeing. It makes you hungry. It makes you hungry. It makes you hungry. I like the sweetbreads challenge too.

Like he's given the most disgusting or not disgusting, but difficult to land assignment. Right? This is unrelated, but it's also very related. Griffin, the pickiest beige eater in the world, has a surprisingly adventurous taste in French food. When overseas, his diet consists solely of steak tartare, escargot, sweetbreads,

motherfuckers. They're good. He loves it. If you love chopped up raw steak, then maybe you would love this. Nope. Absolutely not. Why are you such a baby? Not a baby. I'm a big boy.

I'm a big boy and I go poo-poo in the toilet. And you eat no eggs. I eat no eggs. I didn't like that. You'll eat veal stomach. Eat those RX bars. You do like those RX bars. Which have eggs in them. I know, but that's the whole selling point

is I like that I don't have to see the eggs. I the protein from the eggs that i'm gonna look at all right so after the big fight there's the second act well you know which again this is where i'm saying i like the incredibles more because the incredibles i mean i like this one of the incredibles the incredibles doesn't have some of those tricks like this sort of like annoying at the end of the second act conflict which is always just a little bit trying, you know, cause you know, they're all going to bounce back, but,

um, or bounce baby. Uh, so Joey, help me out here. So yeah, this is where Linguini reveals his, the truth.

Uh, yeah. Well, first he, and Antonigo comes and Linguini can't make these amazing recipes. They're all like yelling at him. Well, no. Antonigo has this thing

where he's like, I want some perspective. Like where he's a real dick. God, so good. You gotta be honest. I mean, he's not nice. He's a dick to the waiter who is also depicted

throughout the movie as an integral part of the restaurant. That's true. And good at his job. Much like John Ratzenberger is an integral part of Pixar's success.

Very true. There's also, he also crashes that press conference when it's sort of like Remi... Linguini's victory tour. And that's when he comes in and is like... I guess I'll have to try this out.

Right. But the perspective speech is fucking cool. And all the chefs are yelling at Linguini. They're like, we'll make it. Just tell us how you made it.

Of course, he doesn't know. Right, because the Remi is gone. Right. And then suddenly, who pops through that door? I can't remember the exact mechanics of this. Well, it's because Remy has been freed by his rat brethren.

Oh, yeah, sorry. Remy comes back in and they all are going to kill him and then Linguini confesses the truth. The chef. A swole rat really comes into play now. A character who I think only has one line of dialogue,

but there's that one swole rat. He's a big rat. Yes, he is swole. I think his one swole rat. He's a big rat. I think his name is Git. He thick. He thick. And I also like that he has like a tag on his ear. I don't know if you've noticed.

Yeah, he's a lab rat. Exactly. The idea is that he was pumped full of some stuff but it also makes him look like a one earringed bodybuilder. He is voiced by

a bodybuilder. Correct. By Jake Steinfeld. Jeffrey, Jake Steinfeld. Yeah, that's his name. Very important. Everyone's favorite character, Git. They all Correct. By Jake Steinfeld. Jeffrey, Jake Steinfeld. Yeah. That's his name. Very important. Everyone's favorite character, Git. They all leave.

They all leave in disgust. And even Will Ferrell leaves with his thumb. Will Arnett. Will Arnett. Will Ferrell? Takes his thumb with him. No, even Colette leaves. And even Colette leaves.

But then she comes back. She thinks about- Because anyone can cook. She even thinks about slapping him. Yeah, that's true. That's true. But yeah, that's, you know- Would you slap him, Romilly? I mean, I might slap him. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, that's, you know. Would you slap him, Romilly?

I mean, I might slap him. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Mais non. Mais non. Absolument pas. And then Brian Dennehy has his sort of moment after that. Django. He finally gets unchained.

Yep. Where he's like, you know, Remy has given up. And he realizes he doesn't understand this. Right. But. We're here for you. Yeah, this is why it's good to have the family. Yes, this is why it's important that he brings this back

is that it's important for them to all come in and be the kids community. And then this is just sort of like just a static storytelling. Like the slot machine is paying off at this point where now we have all these rats who you've somehow learned to accept. Who go through the dishwasher and it's cute.

So cute. So cute. They're all fluffy. And then they all work the kitchen and Remy's like directing them like a traffic conductor because it needs like four of them have to be on each utensil. Right. Yeah.

And it's kind of beautiful to watch like what you were saying. It's like a symphony, especially with this many creatures, the fact that they're all working in unison to get this dish. And then Colette comes back. Yeah. Because anyone can cook. She remembers the maxim.

Right. Anyone can cook. And she probably realizes, it's not said, but she realizes the person she's been communicating with this whole time and teaching is the rat. Yeah, it's true. Do you think she ever has a moment where she's like, was I in love with a rat the whole time? Have I been in a relationship with a rat? Crush on that rat pretty hard.

Well, isn't it she goes off on her badass motorcycle and then she sees the anyone can cook in the book window. Yeah, that's right. Reminded of the original mission. Which I do love this idea that Gusteau exists for everyone as this sort of like... Guiding cold star. Yes.

So she comes back in. What are we going to serve? Yeah. And Remy flips open the book and picks out Ratatouille. And this is also It's a peasant dish. Are you sure?

This is where I'm like, yes. Romilly is like pumping her fist. She's like got a number one foam finger and she's like It's like Skinner playing Freebird. I always say I think the best food

is when amazing chefs cook really simple home food. Which is why I encourage you to cook macaroni and cheese but go on. Maybe I'm the greatest. Exactly the same thing.

Ignore your brother. You have no idea. Six cheeses. She did six cheeses. I did do six cheeses. I mean I really went all in. Some people could say she was flying too close

to the sun. Nah, she stuck that landing. And then, sorry, just a little brief story is two days later, Griffin wanted some leftover mac and cheese. I'm just going to toot my own horn for a second. I was going to just nuke it. And so he put a huge scoop in a bowl and was about to put it in the microwave. And I ran across the kitchen. I was like, no, you can't do that. And I was like, just it in the microwave. And I ran across the kitchen. I was like, no!

You can't do that. And I was like, just give me five minutes. And she goes and sits down and argues with another family member. I got a couple to choose from. You're like you. All argumentative. It was a tense Christmas,

but this mac and cheese brought us together. Oh, yeah, Thanksgiving. But I made a brand new sauce. I mixed it in. She like redid it. It wasn't even like she threw it in a pan. She like clustered it. And then I put it in a baking dish

with new toasted panko breadcrumbs, some thyme, and put it under the broiler. So it was like even gooier and cheesier and crustier than the original. I think it was better than the original mac and cheese. It was like mac and cheese. It was like mac and cheese redux.

What you're describing is like how beautiful the ratatouille looks as they make it. It feels like that and watching it all come together out of nowhere. I can feel the vegetables melting in my mouth. This is also the moment for me where Ron is burning up. What do you guys say?

One other reason why this movie is incredibly important to me is that, well, no, I find it funny. Our mother cannot cook. And that is why, in large part, I started cooking. Sure. But every time I say, oh, my mom can't cook, she gets really upset. Romley, that's not true. I can cook one thing.

There's one thing she cooks really well. Ratatouille ah yeah the numens the numens they make the ratatouille the touille this is a dish

that was designed by Thomas Keller it's a peasant dish oh but you're saying this specific the design of the ratatouille in this beautiful

it looks so good the only thing that looks better than what they make though is what not to jump forward is what we then see in Ego's flashback. Right.

His mother's Ratatouille, which also, which looks completely different. Yes. Which I like. And also looks great. But I like that he didn't make his mother's food. He just made the food that evokes it for him. Yes. Now, I don't like vegetables because I'm a Philistine.

I also think if you actually had Ratatouille in person, you would hate it. I've had it once and I was fine with it. I ordered it because I was like, I should have it at this point. You know, love the movie. I should eat the dish. But I watched this shot and I never feel hungrier than I do watching the reveal of the Ratatouille when they take it out and peel the wax paper off of it. And then when he drizzles the sauce.

I was going to say, though, this is the moment where this sequence, starting with, it's like a seven minute kind of suite that happens. Starting with Remy pointing to the dish in the cookbook, leading through all the preparation

in the kitchen. Giacchino's score just fucking transcends the next level. I think it's the best work he's ever done. This is my favorite score of his. It's a great score.

I think I might agree with that. I don't know though, it's tough. Is Incredibles ever done. This is my favorite score of his. It's a great score. I think I might agree with that. I don't know, though. It's tough. Is Incredibles not the best? His Incredibles score is astonishing. Which is also his first film score, which is insane. And also the Incredibles score does similar heavy lifting at points, like where the dialogue will drop out,

and it's all reliant on his music sort of telling you how everyone's feeling. Yes, but I'll say this, Sweet, and I'm going to pull up what the track listing is here. i'm going in for like auditions or i have like a big show and i need to hype myself up oh wow this is usually what i listen to because it starts out kind of modest and i just think about remy's inspiration and the way it builds and by the end of it's like this like as he's preparing the dish and then right right when they're, like, rolling it out, and I love that Linguini's on roller skates. He has no pretensions anymore.

He's got to serve everyone, so it's just about economy of movement and energy. The way it settles at the very end, I feel, like, so focused and amped up, but also not manic. And it's my hype-up music. Cool. Yeah.

Yeah, it's the perfect encapsulation of his, of what I perceive to be his message in this movie, which is every little piece being put together, just the same as in filmmaking. What would that scene be without the piece, for instance, of Giacchino's great score? Romney's on her phone, so I just kicked her chair.

Yeah, it's beautiful. Makes me cry. And he serves the dish, and this is the moment that everyone cites in this movie. It's just like this transcendent piece of storytelling it's wonderful where ego skeptically clicks his pen forks a bite and then gets transported back to the last time he was truly happy in his life last time he was truly comforted right you know like it's like he's all banged up from like playing rugby or something whatever it is he's you know or like he looks all right dirty and sort of tired his mother like sits him down and puts the stew in front of him right which is like oh my god if if that's that's the that's the

power of art baby and he loves the food he demands to give his compliment to the chef and this is when the narration kicks back in it's i just This is where the movie is just so goose bumpy. It's incredible. Yeah. There's a moment because, you know, I think one of the reasons why I didn't, I underestimated and underrated this movie the first time is coming off the run of Pixar movies before it,

it's a lot less openly emotional. The other Pixar movies are far more sentimental. And I don't say that in a pejorative way. I like sentimentality. But Brad Bird's a lot more reserved with his emotions. And I don't say that in a pejorative way. I like sentimentality. But Brad Bird's a lot more reserved with his emotions. And so there isn't that Pixar cry moment that when people make fun of Pixar movies, they always say, like, there's the Coco scene. There's the beginning of Up.

There's Boo at the door. Whatever it is. This movie doesn't have that. But there's underlying emotion throughout the whole thing. And I'll say, even the first time I saw it, we go to this section where Remy's explaining how they had to wait for everyone else to leave. Then Ego comes in. He sees the rat.

He's kind of taken aback. Remy's narrating it. You're just watching Ego's body language. And he's astonished by it, and he just quietly leaves. He asks some questions, but apart from that. Right. And the review comes out, and we go to Ego's voiceover. And it goes through all the characters we've seen over the course of the movie as the review's being read.

And at the last line where he says nothing less than, in my opinion, the finest chef in France. And I'm getting goosebumps just reciting that. There's a shot of Remy sitting, I literally have goosebumps right now, sitting on a rooftop watching the sunrise in Paris. sitting on a rooftop watching the sunrise in Paris, and that feeling of this guy who cares so much about this art and believed it was incapable that he could ever accomplish something great, being recognized as the best in his country, while just having this moment where it's anonymous, no one knows who he is,

but he just sits on a rooftop, looks at the most beautiful city in the world, and knows that he fucking did it it it it like kind of you know it takes a lot of body blows for me to cry during a movie like i'm one who can cry but it needs to be a sustained like a ringer of emotions sure but every time i see that moment i choke i think it is does make people cry in the same way as the coco moment or the up scene it's just in a make people cry in the same way as the Coco moment or the up scene. It's just in a way that is not

the same way that is almost confusing to them because what's making them cry is a review. A good review. It's all building up to that and it kind of just hits you at the end. But that's crazy in a way because Antoni goes on the introduced like half an hour before the construction of this movie

and yet by that point you are engaged in it enough that his words movie was this Peter O'Toole's final film performance

well Venus I believe was 06 right this comes out 07 so I'm gonna look at his filmography

it's also so boss that Brad Bird took over a movie 18 months before it came out and was like you know who I'm gonna get Peter O'Toole to play the chef the chief so boss that Brad Bird took over a movie 18 months before it came out and was like, you know who I'm going to get? Peter

O'Toole to play the chef, the chief antagonist slash critic in a film that was previously called Rats and starred Rob Schneider. He was in Stardust the same year. Okay, and that was his last? No. He has a

movie coming out this year called Diamond Cartel. Weird. It's I can't even begin. He has a movie coming out this year called Diamond Cartel. Weird. I can't even begin. He plays someone called Tugboat. I don't understand what's going on. Armando Sante and Michael Madsen are in it. He's wearing a beanie.

I don't know. He died years ago. Tom Sizemore. No, maybe not Tom Sizemore. Anyway, we can't get into this because it's late. I don't think that's what we're coming up. It's apparently coming out on Netflix this year, so get excited.

So, yeah, I mean, they outline at the end how the restaurant got shut down, unsurprisingly. We forgot to mention the health inspector, who they forget is coming and shows up perfectly. There's like the rule in improv where they say the time you should do a callback

is the moment after the audience has forgotten about it so that they'll be blown away that you remembered the joke. And it's like they set up the health inspector thing as a dangling threat. It keeps on getting pushed off and then they don't bring it up for just long enough that when he walks through the doors. The health inspector coming in is great. It's such a fucking. It's such good physical, again, like in this sort of farce, this building farce.

And then they all just kidnap him, tie him up, throw him in the meat freezer. Oh, boy. It's so good. But anyway, yes, of course, despite all of that. Right. Of course, because of, you know, they can't push the logic that far, the restaurant has to shut down. Right.

And Anton Ego has to lose his job. Lose his job. He loses his credibility. When people find out that he was writing about a rat. Which is crazy. But then... He becomes an investor in a restaurant called... This is where I'm just like, for some reason, so devastated. He got to open his own restaurant. It's called La Ratatouille.

He's got a little spoon. A beautiful song by Camille plays. Who's Camille, man? She's a lovely French songstress. Second time Griffin has mentioned Camille. Singing about fucking rat shits. I'm all about Camille. You know what other song Camille did? What? The Jean-Phil

de Paris, the SNL sketch where they all do the dance. Oh, I remember Camille. I was big on Camille. That's a fucking Camille song. Our mom got really into Camille. We're all done. Yes. And then beautiful end credits, as always. Very nice end credits. 2D, because Brad Bird was like, I want to bring it back. I want to get these

Pixar animators who haven't been able to do hand-drawn animation in years, since college, get them doing a beautiful 2D end credit sequence. Let's play the box office game. Okay. Now, people thought this movie was going to bomb. They thought this was going to be

the one to break the Pixar streak. America hates cuisine. High cuisine. They hate it. Right? Came out in the middle of the summer. It was the first one without Disney oversight.

June 29th, 2007. And like many Pixar movies it was kind of poorly marketed. The trailers weren't that good. The trailers were kind of bad. The poster with all the knives thrown at him is odd. Like because that's not really something that happens in the movie that much and like the trailer and

the poster they all did like the like phonetic ratatouille underneath it right they were like way too worried about like people not being able to pronounce the title even though ben liked the title just didn't get that it was about a rat i mean it just invoked that dish. Right. And then I saw the movie for the second time, and I'm like, oh. Oh, yeah. All right. All right. Tatooie. Tatooie.

The movie made $206 million. Really solid. The box office did very well. And I feel like it's one of the Pixar movies that has aged the best. I feel like its legacy has grown at a larger rate. And I was talking to some of my friends saying I was going to do this podcast, and everyone was like, I have to watch that movie again. People love it.

People are always, oh yeah, Ratatouille. I mean, it's the last great Pixar movie, in my opinion. I disagree strongly, but we'll talk about that. Because you like WALL-E. WALL-E's a masterpiece. Right. WALL-E's very, very good. I also think Coco is great. Coco is great.

And I think Toy Story 3 is very good with I also think Coco is great. Coco is great. And I think Toy Story 3 is very good with transcendent moments. Toy Story 3 I'm not interested in, but Inside Out is the other one that I would speak up for. I don't think any of them hit this kind of transcendent arc. I would agree with Wally comes closest.

Yeah. But yes, this was the beginning of the end in the sense that once they had been able to replace Jan Pinkova and they'd done that twice it becomes very comfortable to keep replacing directors

and they also now don't start letting their best short directors graduate to features and it becomes a problem where we agree on like too many sequels

I mean you know once Disney takes over, they sort of throw that down as the mandate. And the other thing is that the new first-time filmmakers they're letting make a feature are only getting to do sequels to other people's movies. So no one's really establishing a new

clear voice. Pete Sohn, voice of Emil, brother of Remy, he gets around to Good Dinosaur after the dude who wrote the screenplay, Bob Peterson, worked on it for two years, been directing it, got thrown off. And for a year, that movie didn't have a director. Pixar was like, we're just letting them.

They entirely cancelled another movie. Newt. Newt. What happened with Newt? Which was with Gary Wright. Yes, Gary Rydstrom. Who again, he made a short. The short was great. One of the best sound designers in the history of cinema. And they were like, we'll give you a movie. And then at a certain point, they were just like, never mind.

Wasn't it going to be good? It was going to be about Newt's or something. Yes. The thing with Newt was that the plot was very similar to Rio, the Blue Sky Bird movie. And they canceled it because they knew they were going to come out three years after Rio. But who fucking cares about Rio? Exactly. I agree with you.

All right. So, Ratatouille is number one. Can you tell me its opening weekend number? I think it was 51? 47. Okay.

I remember that was like far beyond expectations. Yes, because number two is another new movie, a sequel in an action franchise

that people thought was going to be number one. People, I think, thought was going to beat it. It's called Live Free or Die Hard. The first PG-13 in this franchise. As I like to call it,

live free or go fuck yourself. Have you seen Live Free or Die Hard? Sure. Is that the... Wait, which one is that? It's the one with Justin Long and Mary Elizabeth Winstead. Yeah. It's the computer thriller.

Yeah. It's fine. Timothy Olyphant, he like, shuts down all the traffic lights with a computer. Do you know what it was called overseas? I don't know. Die Hard 4.0. Is that the one where when he says,

you be a motherfucker, it's like you can't like hear it? Yes. And he like fires a gun on himself or whatever. Right. Yeah. You should see Die Hard 1, Ram. Yeah, it's a good movie.

You would actually like Die Hard 1. Ram Ali looks so disinterested at that suggestion. Do you know what movie I recommended to Ram yesterday because of a gif that you threw onto my timeline or a quote you threw onto my timeline? Rom would fucking love Talented Mr. Ripley, right? Oh yeah, great movie. Griffin never responds to my text, but then occasionally

he'll send me eight paragraphs about why a movie would be my favorite movie. Like, Griffin, what am I going to do? Help me! I'm freaking out. Texting Griffin is just a 50-50 shot that's really what it is but then sometimes

I'll say something that I'm like okay there's no way he's gonna respond and it's like eight paragraphs of like oh my god

and then this and then this gotta keep you on your toes yeah you definitely do number three at the box office it's a sequel

a truly poorly thought out sequel to a comedy hit not starring the star of that comedy starring one of the like other actors in the comedy who they elevate truly poorly thought out sequel to a comedy hit, not starring the star of that comedy, starring one of the other actors in the comedy,

who they elevate to. Oh, Evan Almighty. Evan Almighty. I loved that movie. You loved that movie. That's insane. I mean, you were nine years old. Right. I mean, he's got to build an arc.

Eight years old, sorry. Got to build an arc. Weirdly, one of the most expensive movies ever made. Incredibly expensive. A comedy that cost $200 million. A movie that threw Tom Shadick, isn't it? 8 years old gotta build an arc weirdly one of the most expensive movies ever made incredibly expensive a comedy that cost 200 million dollars a movie that threw Tom Shadick

into like existential crisis after it flopped and also a movie that doesn't exist this is the first time anyone's discussed it in half a decade

it really doesn't exist yeah number 4 is a no no no it's actually a very underrated horror movie

that I really like that you and I would always misquote the trailer to each other 2007 it is an original or a remake it's

it's an original movie it's based on a book or a short story or something you know based on a famous author's work wait is this room oh

I know what it is it's 1408. 1408. Yes, and what's the thing from the trailer? Joey and I misremembered the trailer where it's like at the beginning Samuel L. Jackson's like, you don't want to go in 1408.

He's in a Tom Shadek-esque existential crisis. And then at the end, well, if I just say it, it'll be over faster. And the end of the trailer, Samuel L. Jackson shows up and he's like, I told you not to go in there.

That's still what I remember it as being. It's not quite the line. He does show up, though, and say, like, why did you do this? My memory is that, like, he appears and there's, like, a sandstorm happening around him. And he's like, I told you. That movie's also weirdly successful. Yeah, good movie. That's the second highest grossing Stephen King movie of all time, I think.

Okay. Behind it. Last one. Sequel to a superhero movie last one sequel to a superhero movie sequel to a superhero movie in the year 2007 is called Spider-Man 3

nope what? that's number 16 at the box office that is the number one movie of that year sure Ben Hates Me

the year is 2007 it's a sequel to a superhero movie is it Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer? that's right what a piece of poo-poo. The villain is a cloud. Yep.

Uh-oh. Look out for that cloud. Uh-oh. Spaghetti. The villain, what's his name? Galactus, but he's just a cloud. Oh, well, Doctor Doom's in it, too. Yeah, yeah, but he's more of a...

He's a supporting role. He gets the surfboard at a certain point. He's more of a nuisance than a villain. Yeah, right. He's more of just a depressing instance. Not this guy again. He's a villain in the same way that Mr. Roper in Three's Company is a villain. Right.

Perfect. Great joke. Everyone loves it. We're done with that joke. Can I do something that's not a merchandise spotlight but I feel like is worth talking about quickly? Yeah. This was a big period because the home video market was huge. This was sort of the peak of the

mockbuster, as they called it. The Asylum would make all these movies that were like transmorphers that would be on blockbuster shelves and people would be like, is that Transformers? When video stores still physically existed. There was a weird Brazilian company that did these for all the Pixar movies. It was like The Little Cars

and Ant's Story. They did it for all... And this starts the run of a couple years where they don't know how to It was like The Little Cars and Ant's Story. Sure. Sounds good. Right. And this starts the run of a couple years where they don't know how to fucking rip off Pixar. Hard to rip off like Up. Well, their whole game was that they would look at the trailer and they would animate the whole movie in four months and get on shelves before the thing came out. So when the premise is talking cars, they were like, we fucking got this. Yeah, right.

And with this, they called it ratatouille, which means nothing. And they just made it about a world solely inhabited by rats. I mean, sure. And some of them work in a restaurant. Here it is.

I'm looking at it. I believe... Yeah, there's a chef involved. Looks good. Ratatouille. Beautiful animation. Incredible. We'll tweet that.

Yeah. And you got to tweet this out. I think the up one is called like up in the sky, a balloon adventure. And all they knew was like old man and little boy in balloons. And it becomes like a competitive, like air racing film. Sounds good.

Yeah. They have Kiara, the brave. Yes. They have tappy toes. That's they have Kiara the Brave. Yes. They have Tappy Toes. That's a happy feat. Go check them out. I think Ratatouille

is available in full on YouTube. We'll do a bonus episode on Ratatouille. We will do that over my dead body. So this is our episode

on Ratatouille. I think it was a great episode. I do too. I actually do. We united the siblings. Hashtag unite the two. I think it was great. Yeah. And now we just got actually do. We united the siblings. Hashtag unite the two. I think it was great. Yeah.

And now we just got to get James on at some point. Yeah, get James on. James E. Newman. What's his favorite movie? I already asked him and he was struggling to think of a good one.

I'll tell you one he threw out as a possibility. The supernatural Marlon Wayans basketball comedy The Sixth Man. Never seen it? Never heard of it.

Oh, really? We might have to do that one okay great who directed that one was that Cassavetes or

who was on that one yes I don't know I was going to try to go somewhere funnier it's Wiseman's only scripted film the one time

Frederick Wiseman sure right yeah he decided to dip his toe into comedy Romley Newman thank you so much for being here thank you

any final thoughts on Ratui it's role in food culture I mean I just think It's going to comedy. Romley Newman, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Any final thoughts on Ratui, its role in food culture? I mean, I just think it helps people honestly think more about where their food comes from. Yeah. I mean, I'm not just saying in terms of, oh, is my food cooked by a rat? Are there rats close to my food? Sure. Your food is created by a person.

Food is creative. Food's a form of self-expression. Are you calling someone right now? Someone's calling me. Oh, okay. Food's a form of self-expression. Are you calling someone right now? Someone's calling me. Oh, okay. Food's a form of self-expression. Food is a lot about memories and childhood and all of that. And I mean, I identify with that. That's why I like chicken finger.

Really? I mean, no, that is why he likes chicken fingers. Yeah, sure. Because they came with a free toy. And there are certain foods that if I tried them today, I might not love them. Okay. But when I try them,

it takes me back to another time. You told me recently that you get nostalgic for Domino's, which you objectively hate. Romley despises fast food and hates that I eat it. But when I would babysit Romley and we'd have like movie nights and stuff,

I would order Domino's. The thing is, Griffin could eat whatever he wanted because my mom was like, if we don't give this kid what he wants, he's not going to eat and he's going to die. That was what Griffin was. I was like Michael Fassbender in Hunger.

I would just sit at the table for days not eating vegetables. God, what an asshole you must have been. I was a piece of shit. But me and James weren't allowed to eat junk food. Right. They were like, look, we lost it with that one. You and James both had healthy appetites. You and James both from the get-go liked junk food. Right. They were like, look, we lost it with that one. And you and James both had healthy appetites. You and James both

from the get-go liked food. Exactly. And my mom would make like Griffin food or have Griffin snacks and then there was what everyone else ate. Everyone else in my family

loves food. I'm the one, I'm the anti-Remy of my family. And so, there was this kind of weird, I didn't want to eat bad food, but there was also...

Yeah, there's a connection there. No, but no, no, no, but my mom was like, don't eat to eat bad food, but there was also- Yeah, there's a connection there. No, but my mom was like, don't eat bad food. Oh, okay. So it was like we would have Oreos, but they'd be organic. Numino. Numino. So pretty good.

All of that. Also, it's so Griffin that he lives in New York City and he's ordering Domino's pizza. It's the fucking most insane shit in the world. It's such an offensive thing. It's crazy that you would do that. It's so bonkers when he would babysit I would look forward

to the meal so much we'd get a pizza cinnamon sticks with the fucking icing cheesy bread cheesy bread

that's good and I honestly have such fond memories that if I ate that today I wouldn't even think this sucks I would think

you'd have an Anton Ego moment yeah so that is my ratatouille so if you if i ever become a food critic make me dominoes uh and i'll say you know i i not to keep on harping on this thing but i remember when this movie came out like hearing a lot of people talk about how much their kids loved ratatouille like people with young children being like my kid wants to cook now because of fucking rammy because of the little chef he's a good little chef. I do think it inspired,

I mean, because you, you're like part of like, there are a wave of like, young food bloggers and chefs who are like all around your age and that didn't seem like a thing that would be happening.

That's the thing, is when I started cooking, a large part of why I started blogging was because no one my age was talking about food and I feel like I had no one to look up to. Sure. And now it's crazy.

There are teen food bloggers left and right. There are teen food... Chopped Junior and... Chopped Junior, MasterChef Junior. They have like every one of those. I mean, the teen chef market is huge. There's enough of a base of teen chefs to have a spinoff of every single major food show. Which ultimately is great because it's

raising a generation of people who actually care about where food comes from and how it's made and the art of food. But when this movie came out, that wasn't in existence. Yes. Joey, any final thoughts on this film and how it

places in the Brad Bird film? It's significant for me for all the same reasons, except about the artistic and storytelling process rather than the cooking process. But it's all essentially the same thing, obviously, which is sort of the point. It's an inspiring movie about

creative passion that you can't explain. And Bird is an inspiring figure to me for that reason. I, you know. You idolize him. I was the kind of kid who sat in my living room. Well, I don't remember how young I was exactly. Watching the Incredibles commentary over and over.

I've seen it many times. It's weird how many times you've seen it. I've seen at least one. Dave mentioned in our Iron Giant episode that you have the Mondo limited edition Iron Giant vinyl release, right? Yes. Do you have the Ratatouille one that just came out?

They just released the Ratatouille soundtrack on vinyl with beautiful art and they made the discs look like Ratatouille. Oh, no, I know what you're talking about. And yes, I have a different... It's the same art that is what

my mom got me in a framed version for my birthday. Because they released it both as the vinyls that you're talking about, and then it was also a poster that you could buy. And my friend who went to the like Alamo

Texas thing Mondo Con bought it for me brought it back my mom framed it for my birthday it's nice

it's a very nice Remy's sweeping and he's I mean Remy's stirring and Linguini is sweeping I just like that the discs look great it's very evocative

they put like color in the vinyl so that it looks like alright we're done okay thank you all for listening please remember to rate, review like that the discs look like rat too. It's very evocative. They put like color in the vinyl so that it looks like rat. Alright we're done. Okay. Everyone wants to kill us. Thank you all for listening.

Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Who wants to cook us? Cook us in a stew. Thanks to Ange for good of her social media. Joey C. Sims on Twitter. Romley Newman on Twitter.

What's the better one to use? Oh yes I only have one Twitter but I never tweet. Okay. Oh but the one time I tweet. That's why you want people to follow you on Instagram. The one time I did tweet recently was because Griffin bought me a Ratatouille mug at Disney World. Thank you.

It was very minimalist and classy. Cool. I use it, and there's a picture of me holding it. Yeah. Oh. It's got a little chef on it. It comes with a little spoon. But you can follow Food by Romley on Instagram.

Okay, that's the thing to follow. It's all food. And maybe I'll make ratatouille and post it. Hey, now. Yes. For mac and cheese. Yes.

I will also, I will also make ratatouille. We'll do a ratatouille off. Okay. And that will be our bonus episode. One of seven bonus episodes promised in this episode.

Thank you to Pat Reynolds and Joe Bowen for our work. Thank you to Liam Montgomery for our theme song. Go to blankies.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit. Seriously.

And as always, F***.