Blank Check with Griffin & David - Ratcatcher

Episode Date: January 18, 2026

We need to pod about Glasgow. We need to pod about the arresting inner lives of these complicated protagonists. We need to pod about every incredible project Lynne Ramsay has been attached to over the past 25 years that never actually happened. So yeah, WE NEED TO POD ABOUT CASTVIN! Join us as we discuss Ramsay’s debut film Ratcatcher, a striking study of a young boy on the precipice of adolescence in the slums of 1970s Glasgow. Ben discovers that he adores this movie. Griffin discovers that he can make “Lin Manuel Ramsey” a bit. And everyone discovers that Scottish accents are not that easy to imitate. Watch the Characters Welcome Sketch from Tristan Griffin Watch Timmy on Fallon Check out Meshes of the Afternoon Watch The Mother Project Check out Notes on the Cinematograph Watch Barry Jenkins in the Criterion Closet Listen to the Top 21 Sports movies of the 21st century episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Maw, I asked you to put blank check on. You weren't listening. I told you to put a blank check on. Put blank check on. Blank check on. You lot wouldn't know a good tune if it came up and bit you. Put blank check on. Stop screaming in me here.

Blank check. Blank check is shite, Emery. You're a big shite. That scene. Yeah, what is it? What is it that? Tom Jones. Tom Jones, right, yeah, yeah.

Which, it's very rude. Tom Jones is a wonderful singer. Sure. That scene. really resonated with me as the father of a child that now loudly requests music. And calls you shite. Luckily, he's yet to learn the word shite. Boss baby just paces around.

Not calling me a cup of shite or anything like that. Calling you shite. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that scene. I've been on the receiving end of the six shouted requests where I'm like, I heard the first. What are the big requests now? Can we go through? K-pop Demon Hunter songs. Golden, so to pop.

Take down. Has Boss Baby watched the movie or just the soundtrack? Just the Just Knows the songs. It is incredible how, dare I say it, potent those songs have become. I'm not saying they're a potent mix, but I'm saying if you were to put those songs onto a mixtape, that would be a potent mix. No, but it's like the saturation of those songs. Absolutely. It's like Frozen and Taylor Swift combined.

Very powerful. And I will admit, I watched that film and I was sort of like, oh, yeah, I get this. But, you know, I think I'm sort of like bouncing off me a little bit. But I get that it's, I get why this is, I can see why this is so popular, Homer Simpson line. And then, you know, listen to these songs on your time. I'm like, well, they do rock. There's there. They've worked their magic on me.

And that's why it's so smart that the Academy shortlisted only one of them. Did they just golden? Amanda Dobbins had a great breakdown, a big picture. It's kind of the incontos situation. Did they just go all in on one? We're trying to help you. How did you mess this up? At least do two.

At least have two. I think it's only golden. But I mean, like, that's the Enkanto strategy. Sometimes I feel like the movie will be like, well, let's just get R1 over the line. But then Enkanto famously picked the wrong song. They picked the emotional and lovely dos erigitas. And they should, of course, pick Bruno. They didn't see the Bruno wave coming.

But we don't. We don't talk about it. We don't talk about that. Silence. Silenceio Bruno. Oh, boy, oh, boy. It's the start of a new miniseries. David's like you're like you're dealing cards.

You were making a hand gesture like you were dealing them out at the poker table. We're holding a hot hand here. Yeah, sure. In my opinion, a wet hand. Five masterpieces. Five great movies from one of my favorite living filmmakers. In my opinion, one of the best filmmakers on the planet, Lynn Ramsey, someone I have been wanting to discuss on this podcast for many a year.

I was telling Sims earlier before you got here, Griff, that having now watched, I guess we've done... Three? Yeah. And I only really had familiarity with you. We're never really here. I am viking with Lynn Ramsey so hard in a way where I don't... Across our whole 10, I guess now our 11th year of doing the show, I think that I have...

Decade of Possible dreams. This is the director I'm vibing with the hardest. I mean, she's just so Ben coded. despite being from another country, you know. I never had a doubt your reaction was going to be that strong. No doubt. Never a doubt. They're challenging films?

Yeah, and I would say the most challenging we've yet to tackle, and the least Ben, in a way, we don't talk about Kevin. We don't talk about Bruno. We need to talk about Kevin. That's where we go, right? Yeah, yeah, that's the difference. Kevin must be discussed, and we are promising we are going to discuss him on our episode. Kevin.

Yes. Look, this being the first thing, first episode of a miniseries and one that I very much pushed over the line. I feel like there has not been as much of a griff move. No resistance here. No, no resistance. You've always marked Lynn as when she makes it on the movie, we're doing Lynn. And it's very much like the Buster Keaton series for me.

Now, Lynn Manuel, we don't talk about Bruno. That's him. Yes. Lynn Ramsey, yeah. Rat catcher. Yeah. Today's film. That's her.

Right. That's just for the list. Lynn Manuel Ramsey would be like, and I'm not tying a rat to a balloon. Interesting. We've been served with a legal document here. He just unfriended me on Facebook. I have my Facebook account that I used just to sync up to Disney emoji Blitz and message Lynn.

Yeah, you're still message sliding into those messenger DMs. I'm not saying there was any opposition to it, but she's very much one of my people. And much like Buster Key and it felt like, look, this is a slightly more challenging miniseries. than we've done before. The Ask on Buster Keaton, although those films are very fun and watchable, and I was happy to see

our listeners discover that in real time. We're asking people to engage with a century old silent films, which is outside of some people's language. These movies are very emotionally intense. Another filmmaker I adore,

who I think has similar kind of thematic obsessions and weight is the great French director Robert Burson, who I once wanted to put on a March Madness bracket and David very, very wisely pointed out, imagine 20 weeks of that.

I love Rob Hepresson so much. We love it. We love it. Very important to me. We would not be covering Lynn Ramsey if she had double-digit numbers of film because I think it's just a lot to ask of our listeners. But I also think, and this is what you're experiencing, Ben,

these movies are not, in my opinion, punishing. They are difficult and they are challenging. They're a little challenging, but no, I don't know, no, no. Not really not. These are not movies that my love of Lynn Ramsey is not a fetishizing of a kind of feel bad mood. No. It is that I feel like she very, very... The material is tough to think about sometimes.

The most simple way I would put it is she makes films about the things that we don't know how to talk about or even think about, much like Kevin. We need to. But they're all based in kind of like unspeakable reality. of human life. And they are, yeah. She tells those stories in an understated way. I don't think they are punishing. Yeah, but she's got style, dude.

That's a huge part of it. Very stylish filmmaker we're going to be unpacking. Because these movies are about the emotional experiences of going through kind of unspeakable experiences. She's never gone over two hours. Congrats to us. Her longest movies die my love at 1.19 minutes. She kept it under.

She kept it under. It's five films over the course of 26 years with a lot of failed, what, of projects that we'll talk about that are really, really fascinating. But this is her first film Ratcatcher, released in the UK in 1999, in the States in 2000. It got an early, I say early, a pretty immediate criterion release. I think that is not as much part of their model anymore, other than when they are, like, the distributor for a film and were theatrically. But George Washington is another one that comes out in the U.S. where it's like,

Criterion has taken a debut film That barely got a theatrical release In the United States, sure And are immediately kind of canonizing it Yeah, you're right, you're right If you're like a film nerd like us And you're looking to the Criterion announcements every month As a like guidebook of like, where should I start?

What should I look at? You know? And not to age ourselves, but at that point in time, This is how you discovered it. Criterion only has like 200 titles. No, I hear you. This is interesting. You go interesting.

They put a movie in the collection that's only two years old. That immediately jumped out to me. And so this was the first one I watched them for that exact reason. Okay, that's interesting. But what's this podcast called? This podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I am Griffin. I'm David.

Producer Ben here with us, if I've been out to Lynn Ramsey. Poking the Bruse. This is a mini series on the films of Lynn Ramsey. It's called We Need to Pod About Castfin, which we're going to do. We will. We sure will. Two weeks. And right, just does semanas, that's right.

Today we're talking about her debut film Ratcatcher. Lynne Ramsey's first film rack catcher, which came out in Britain in 2000, but debuted at the, you know, it was at the Cannes Film Festival. It was this sort of announcement of a new talent. She won the BAFTA's Newcomer Award, the Foreman Award, which was a big deal back then. It's a little similar to Jane Campion's launch. This energy of attention must be paid. Right? By the festivals and by, yeah.

I discovered this film Because My mom Must have interviewed her I'm you know my mom You know we moved to London I lived in London Yeah we know

Why are you putting such an emphasis on us? I'm not And uh You kind of recoiled when you said that You had like There was like a tremor in your body It's pretty interesting for someone To live in another country

I don't know I don't think it's interesting I don't understand why we need to make such a meal out of this I'm making a big meal out of it Um And, you know, she became, she, I've talked about this. She had this period where she was writing arts journalism for sort of the first time in her life for the Daily News, where she had been a political reporter, city reporter for many years. And Graham Fuller was her editor in this sort of period, the great Graham Fuller, sort of a friend of mine or, you know, someone I respect. Okay, well, that's a humble brag.

That is a humble break. And I feel like Graham had this art of your taste, so he would assign her kind of artier stories. Interesting. And I just remember she came home with a VHS of this movie. that I assume was like a sort of a screener or something, essentially. And she was like, I got to watch this, I got to talk to this filmmaker. And we threw it on, which is like, you don't really throw on rat catcher? No.

You place it very gently in a player. I assume we knew that it was like a sort of gritty indie feature. It's not like we were like, oh, what's this about, like, you know, a sort of sports agent who has a second act in life? No, but there's, you could look at this movie and go like... This is a president's plane gets hijacked. by Russian terrorists? You could go like... Is this a slightly

rougher Kess? Yeah, right? That's kind of an interesting... This movie really made me. It certainly reminds me of Kess and we can talk about that. Yes, yes. And we watch it and it's like a...

You know, it's an emotionally demanding movie and it's a... It's got, you know, intense content. But I remember we were... I was, what, 13... Yeah. We were just both so struck by it. It was just one that we were just like, God, this is... This is unbelievable.

And we loved British slice of life stuff, me and my mom. Because we lived in this country that wasn't our own. We were the most outsidery. Like, my dad had grown up in England, obviously. And my brother moved to England when he was five. So he was, you know, it was a little bit more of a British boy than me. Right. Like, I moved to England as like a little American kid.

You had an identity form. I had, right, my little American identity. You had the bags under your eyes. You knew who you were. So this is why me and my mom. I probably did. You probably did. I mean, I got him early.

It is so funny. My mom has them, too. It's genetic. Exactly. It is so funny. My kids have them. Five years of this podcast, you maintained that you have permanent bags under your eyes because in high school you spent too many nights staying up on Oscar Watch for. That is undeniable.

I didn't do myself any favors by not sleeping as a teenager. Of course. But then all three of your children were immediately born with the exact same eyes. They got the eyes. They got those tired eyes. They're not on Oscar Watch. Well, you never know what they got up to do. So we loved like Mike Lee movies.

We loved watching like the old British New Wave movies from the 60s. Kess for people who don't know is a Ken Loach film about a boy. We can talk about Kess in a second. I'm going to actually put a pin in Kess. Because I actually recently rewatched Kess. But in the UK is kind of a generational classic. It is. It is. And so we always owned this movie.

And I think I even rewatched it. It was always on her video shelf because she'd gotten this screener. Yeah. And so I was, yeah, I was also all in on Lynn right away. Yeah. And then Morvern Kallor came out, which we'll talk about next week. And, you know, Samantha Morton was this. hot new star and it was like, oh, it's exciting.

Yeah. And then, of course, her career develops in this depressing way. Yes. Like, where, like, it becomes with Lynn Ramsey, as we'll talk about, like, the story is the movie she doesn't get to make, and the story is, like, how long it takes her to make a movie and how chaotic it can be. And then when something does come out, it's always really interesting. Yeah.

Crazy. I think a lot. What a crazy world we live in. We live in a crazy, topsy-turvy, upside-down world. Can I say it? It's especially been a rough week It has It has You know, this has been An intense week to watch this movie

But speaking transparently There is a good chance that any week You are listening to this episode That will also apply to the week That you have just lived through We're living through a very intense time Right now And it doesn't seem to be getting less confusing

And there's always this dread of like Am I gonna be in the headspace To want to watch these movies at this time. And speaking candidly, I've been going through a kind of rough psychological patch. That is another bit I have stolen

from the doughboys and Tiger Weiger, my depression era. But it's partially there's some circumstantial stuff, a lot of just my bad brain wiring. I've been wanting to do this series for a very long time, and it's like, am I going to be in a good place to watch

and talk about these movies? Oh, sure. Like, if you're feeling a little upset, You know, Lynn Ramsey might not be the first thing you want to watch, but you're about to say, actually, I fucking loved it. Well, the way I feel about her work is her movies always make me feel more alive. They always make me feel more connected to the human condition. And if I am in a good mood and I watch them, it's not like they bring me down. I feel something kind of cathartic of thinking through thoroughly such intense emotions.

I literally just... I go, hey, man, I get it. Totally. I literally just wrote down the exact same thing. Yep. You go out in the world after watching this film and it's, you're reminded you're alive, you're human. It puts you in touch with that.

It's so easy to be distracted by just your phone and the everyday bullshit. It's not like hurts so good edge lord shit, which I don't say dismissively. There are versions of that and filmmakers who do that well that I enjoy to varying degrees. But that's more, am I in the right mood to watch this? I do think Lynn Ramsey movies are. are all deeply trying to engage with what it feels like to be a person. That is the number one thing they are all really digging into. And she explores that in very non-literal emotional terms that are always kind of very engrossing and captivating to watch.

Yeah, this is a movie where it's like, is this a gritty slice of life movie about a working class kid in Voski? Glasgow? Yes, it is. Does it also have little touches of magical realism and sort of beauty, fantasy, Right, right, like sort of Malikian, you know, landscapes. Yes, it does. This is not a fuck you pushing your face into the mud. It's not a nil by mouth, which is a movie I really love.

And Gary Oldman, who directed that film, has called this his favorite British film of all time. Yeah. Which makes a ton of sense. Yes, yeah, yeah. And I like those, you know, I like the, right, the British movies that just like, life's fucking hard. You live in the fucking council state, you know, and you're drunk. Specific mood movies. Yeah, and this has some of that, but it's a little more.

No, I want to offer this as a disclaimer. Wow. I will not judge or be moan any listener who just needs to opt out for these five weeks. Yeah. I get it. These movies all deal with complicated subject matter. I'll do it. You're a coward.

No, I'm okay. You can do whatever you want. I don't know. I care. But I would encourage people to at least give them a chance. And I've seen since we announced this series, many blankies going like, oh, what? So it's like five weeks of bleak week. Is that like what's going on here?

Right, right. And then watching one or two and going like, These are not what I thought at all, which I think is what you're describing as well as been your experience. Absolutely. Yeah. Although I do have a hack. Okay. Okay.

For this series. Give it to us. Have on hand pints of ice cream. Because I will tell you. A little fish food at the ready. And Jerry and Lynn. After watching Ratcatcher, grab yourself some ice cream. What kind of cream you scooping?

Yeah, what do you like? Yeah, I mean, when it comes to Ben and Jerry's, I love a Chunky Monkey. Oh, yeah. Is that the one with banana? Yep. Yeah, yeah, right, right. I feel like I don't like Chunky Monkey because it has walnuts. Is that right?

You know what? They don't pay us, but let's find the fuck out. Also, do you do that Ben and Jerry is in the middle of, like, insane drama? Yeah. That, like, Jerry is trying to buy the company back, or is it, yeah. Yeah. It's sort of like, I think there was some sort of split in retirement, and the company's been moved in a less political direction

and whoever retired is upset about that and is maybe trying... Whoever they moved? I can't remember which is the more activist. Has now merged with another larger company that is sort of like destroying the ethos in a way that was contractual problems. I have a friend who used to work for Ben and Jerry

and I've heard a little bit about it. Ben? Was your friend Ben? Stiller? Ben who? You had a friend who worked for Ben and Jerry. Oh, oh, okay. Oh, yeah, right.

My joke was guessing it was one of the two guys with the name and the company, but then I realized it was confusing. I shouldn't have said the guy. guy that also shares a name with someone in this room right now. Because when I said that, Ben turned around. Yeah, that's my name. I don't know Ben,

who whatever his last name is ice cream. No, honestly, let's move on. Can you say I have a friend who worked in Ben Jerry. Jerry? No, no. I thought you were going to say Stiller. That would be funny too. Fuck, actually, yeah, good point.

Well, they do have walnuts. They do have walnuts and the chunky monkey. And I did go to the factory, which is up in Vermont, up in northern Vermont. When I had a girlfriend who went to Goddard College, which is a remote college, doesn't exist anymore. That is one of the biggest humble bracts I've ever. That had a girlfriend that you had to Goddard.

That you had a girlfriend that you took her to the Ben and Jerry factory. Well, it was like when you go up there, the things to do include go to Ben and Jerry's. Go to Cabot also. Okay. The Cabot factory is really fun. You can watch the Kurds and Way. Oh, that sounds fun. And, you know, you can go buy like a fuck off block of cheese.

A little Miss Moff at there? Yes, a little Miss Moff at there? Often is there. Yeah, yeah. She's there. Yeah. And she's, she's doing great. Yeah. I don't fucking know. Okay, another flavor I love, chocolate chip cookie dough. That's the classic. Yeah. I was going to say my favorite is the chubby hubby, often confused with Chunky Monkey,

which has chocolate coated peanut butter pretzels in it. You know, I just like a late night host to be on my Ben and Jerry's. You know, I just, I need, I need the comfort of Jimmy Fallon looking out. I need to say this respectfully. Objectively, I think the tonight dough is a good flavor of ice cream. I think I've had it. But here's the problem. I've had the Americone dream, for sure.

It's a choking hazard because I can't get down one spoonful of this thing without laughing so hard. Did you think... Look, we're going to talk about... And I said we are going to be really concise on this episode because we got two episodes to record today and I want to be really... I want to be really, really, really concise and tangent-free. But I do want to say, did you... You see when Timmy shallomay, who's promoting his film, Marty Supreme.

Yeah, our buddy, Tommy. Yeah, my big butt, Tim. T.C. Went on Fallon. You know, he's promoting the movie. And he does some kind of joke about, I guess, the Bob Dylan tour. He did a, you know, like, when he was promoting completely unknown. And Fallon does, like, a pitch-perfect Dylan impression to do the bit.

He does some sort of bit. I can't even remember what it was. Do you know what I'm talking about? I have not seen this. Timmy Shal... It's really funny. Like, what Fallon essentially ad-libs something quite funny with his Dylan impression. Because Fallon is a gift and impressionist.

And Timmy looks at him with this momentary kind of like Fuck, that was funny. Like, Chalomey probably has never known Fallon to be funny since he was like a child. You know what I mean? And it's just this like flash from Timmy of like, oh right, you used to be a funny person.

Yeah. Like instead of like the fucking, you know, anus that you are now. Sorry, Jimmy Fallon, if you listen. Just the gibbering fool that sits behind the desk of the Tonight Show, desecrating the name of Johnny Carson and fucking, well, no, Lennox all right.

He can get desecrated. We should mention that Jimmy will be our guests on the Morvord Caller episode. I imagine. Guys, movies. It was crazy. Boyfriend dies. She chops him up. Spoiler.

She doesn't do that, though. That's opening of the movie. No, she does chop him up. Yeah. Tristan Griffin, great New York. actor, comedian, comedic actor, UCB person, did a sketch you can watch on YouTube for characters of welcome that is Jimmy Fallon being called in to testify as a witness in a murder trial. That sounds great.

And it is the best Jimmy Fallon impression I have ever seen. It's an excellent sketch. It's crazy. This is crazy. He's dead. It's great. He does somber Jimmy and having a party, Jimmy, perfectly. Rat Catcher.

I think about a line. I paraphrase often on this podcast that I heard Greta Gerwig say about being on film festival juries. Okay, Greta Gerwig said something about it. When you suddenly have to watch like 30 movies and you have a say in the matter of an award that could change someone's entire career, right?

Yeah, right. Like a new filmmaker like this who scraped together a tiny amount of like state money to make a little movie. Right. And how do you process these things and how do you give all the movies equal ways? Because especially if you're like, this is a film that I assume, we'll look it up, it was funded by the UK Film Council or whatever. And if you go and win a prize it can, you know, can come back to your country and be like, see? Yeah. Like I, you know, because you're not going to come back and be like, hey, rat catcher made 40 million. In almost every other country. That's how it works. A hundred percent. Countries with art funds. Yes. Do you want to see the film, but it's really funny. It's 20 seconds. Great. It is so funny that he's surrounded by people. wearing ping pong heads. Yeah.

So they're talking about the Grammys. Right, because he's got nominated for the Dylan album. So it's right. He says, I'm imagining Dylan in a mortal combat, because he's talking about people, he's up again. And Fallon goes, finish him, right? And Shelby, you could just... He double

takes. He's like, wait, that was funny. Like, get a little to this guy. It's like, he's looking at this husk, and it's fucking Thierden in Lord of the Rings. He's, like, on the throne covered in spider webs. And then his eyes lit up for his second, you know what I mean? Once again, you're speaking of next week's guest.

If you are listening to, yes. Our next week's guest is King Theodon in sort of web mode. Mummified King Theodon is doing we need to talk about Kevin. Jimmy is doing. Right. Worm tongue will be doing Morvern. No, we'll be doing, Die My Love. Worm tongue, yes.

Because, Warfong is a great speaker. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's right in the name. Absolutely. It's got a wormytong. Yeah. And Matt Koalick is doing, you were never really here. I meant to do a joke about Matt Koalick doing this episode.

Because the doughboys always make a joke about him being a rat. He's a rat guy. Anyway, one of you must know how to make a gif of Timmy's reaction. Because I think this is an evergreen expression of like, holy shit. Wow. I thought you sucked. The way he conveys that facially. There's a lot of utility for this as a gift.

100%. We need this as a public, like, this needs to exist in the public trust. Yeah. What I was going to say, the Gerwig thing is... Oh, yeah, Gregaig's talking about being on it, right. She said you put the movie on, and whether it's a screener, you go into a screening, and within five seconds, you know when you're seeing a filmmaker. Agree with her completely, as someone who's done juries and stuff, you know immediately.

Right, and she said... If a movie is going to be, like, sort of next level kind of thing. Right, sometimes they don't live up to their potential or their start, right? The person hasn't quite figured out how to communicate what they were. want to do. Sometimes a movie that doesn't start flashy builds in other ways because performance or whatever. Right. I like a movie to start flashy with sort of like Tommy Lee Jones has the neuralizer. He's pointing it right at me. The best kind of flash. Right. Erase my memory. This can be my first movie. Or a movie starts with Jennifer Beals like working at a steel mill cutoff shirt. That's

another flashy way to start. That's a yeah. It's a pretty flashing. Yes. Or or and this is once again a disclaimer because I don't want to make it sound like our listeners need to do this. If you're comfortable with this. I understand. But if you're ready for Ricky, you could start a movie with Ricky in the Flash playing a small concert.

Hey, Blankies, January 11th, over on Blank Check Special Features, we're discussing The Wiz. One of my favorite movies of all time have been waiting forever to do this. Part of our commentary series on the Wizard of Oz universe. Some highlights include

my passion for Motown music. Very well established in the history of this. podcast. How Diana Ross pulled strings to get the lead role of Dorothy, which is a bit of an understatement. How the film reimagines New York City through the Oz lens, frighteningly.

Tangents like the infamous Quincy Jones interview. David, do you like Brazilian music? Yes. And Ben's pivot to becoming an author. Also, we talk about crying a lot. It's a tear-filled movie, so listen to that exclusively on Patreon. I think, to your point,

Lynn Ramsey, but especially this film for a first film, it is what Grada Gerwig is describing. It is within five seconds, I'm watching a filmmaker. Who is this person? What is their deal trying to figure it out? Which is why, like, it is bizarre, David, that both you and I were transfixed by this movie while being vaguely the age of the characters.

Yeah, and I, look, I'm not a poor Glasgowigan kid. Neither am I. And I never experienced the things that, that we, what's his name? What's his name in the film? A rat catcher. No, rat catcher will of course be joining the Avengers and Avengers. I was Googling for Rat Catcher quotes and unfortunately all that was coming up was

The Suicide Squad, Rat Catcher 2 quotes. Who's a charming performer? I like her quite a bit. Yeah, but yes, for some, you know, whatever. I responded to the kid immensely, absolutely. Yeah. To just that feeling of like, you know, being a bunch, amongst a bunch of kids that you just are not viping with.

I think. And like you just, you don't want to make them mad and you don't want to do the fucking weird shit they're doing. All three of us are different strains of Sensi Boy at our core. And I think a thing this movie captures incredibly well is that moment of, am I going to let the pressures of a kind of imposed cultural sense of masculinity change me? permanently. Right. Right. It's like this pure pressure, boys will be boys, kind of insidious energy that he is trying to navigate his way around while also trying to figure out how just

fucking survive, you know? Yeah. And not just survive them, but like everything in his life. Lynn Ramsey. I'm opening the dossier. Please do. Born on December 5th, 1969. Wow. 1960. Not. Pretty fucking rad. Born in Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland, to a Catholic father

and a Protestant mother, and I don't know if you guys know this, but that kind of shit is a little more unusual, especially back then. I was cross-faced marriage. Glasgow, of course, is home to what they call the old firm.

The most famous sports rivalry in Britain between Celtic and Rangers, which are the two big Glasgow football teams, and Celtic is supported by Catholics. Rangers is supported by Protestants, classically. Also, home to the Glasgow kiss when you headbutt someone in the nose? The joky thing is that a Glasgow kiss is a headbut, yes, yes, yes.

Jokie? Glasgow kiss. I don't find that funny. Jimmy Fallon would not be laughing at that. Hey, buddy, please. You know, in Britain, Glasgow blank basically just sort of means like a rough thing. I feel like British people are like, that's the scariest place. A Glasgow handshake is.

stabbing someone in the liver. I want to share, I did visit Glasgow for the first time. It was a beautiful city, but I can see the edge. I mean, it's a very cool city, and it's only gotten cooler. Totally. Very cool city. It's rougher days have, you know,

are behind. I do have to correct you. The edge is Irish. I did, though, witness kids very much the age of the kind of older bully kids. Kind of like 13, 14-year-old age. I did witness a street fight. Oh, sure. Well, you know what they call that. Glasgow homework.

That's pretty good. So she says her families, you know, her parents' parents were so staunch that her own, her mother's own mother refused to attend the wedding. Her dad worked in the shipyards in Glasgow. Glasgow was, that was the sort of the biggest industry, the fucking river, whatever the fuck is, the estuary. I think that is the name the fucking river. I want to get my geography straight here You know The Glasgow is a big sort of shipping area Especially back then I think so

Dad worked in the shipyards Apparently at one point with the great Billy Connolly The great Scottish comedian The Big Inn? Is that what they call them? I think they call him the Big Inn I believe yeah And then the shipyards closed

You know The city falls in harder times Dad worked apparently as a bar manager Of a gay pub at one point Okay Per Ramsey that was a Revolution Firmidad brought him to the 90s. You know, he kind of, you know, kind of woke him up to new culture.

That's kind of a cool story. Yeah, they lived in Mary Hill, which is like a typical sort of working class part of Glasgow, which is where Ratcatcher is set. She's got two sisters and a brother. She's got a brother named James. Okay. And, of course, the main character of this film is named James. Ramsey says, both of us had dark hair.

My sisters are blonde, so we were the black sheep. And we were the ones essentially who kind of got in trouble. You know, we were like the bad kids. She liked to paint and film, she says, was not like a primary interest as a kid, but she did love The Wizard of Oz, Douglas Cirque, and Betty Davis. So she was watching something. She says that's the influence of her parents. She thought she might go to art school.

She remembers, she says, she watched Wizard of Oz like 50 times. It's such an origin story for so many filmmakers. I feel like, especially of a prior generation back when, like, you just watch what was on TV or whatever. James Cameron recently cited it as his favorite movie of all time. Cool. It came out that he had tried to develop Wicked,

but I think he was implying that he tried to develop a movie out of the books before the musical, perhaps. Oh, that's interesting. But that he was talking with Universal about doing Wicked for a while because he loves Wizard of Oz so much. Very interesting to consider Cameron doing a musical.

Well, that's my question. Was he doing the musical version or was he... Or like an adaptation, a straightforward adaptation of the McGuire books. Not totally clear. Don't look now, the Nick Rogue movie. Uh-huh. One of my favorite movies. One of the best movies.

One of the best. Yeah. But a scary movie. She saw it, she said, in an inappropriate age. She was about eight. And it was like a sort of a thunderbolt moment for her. She was so immersed in it. She said, I had a very happy childhood.

So, like, the films are more like, showing her like dark other worlds and interesting things. Like they're more active. It's not like that films were like an escape from some grim childhood. No, and they don't feel like processing films. If that makes sense? Yes. She was sent to bed.

Her parents found out she was watching. Don't look now. They didn't approve. That made the dossier? J.J. decided to... You're on the fire button already? He's gone?

They sent her to bed? That's what she said in an interview. She does say... So it's her whole thing. She's like, that film wasn't my big thing. but also her parents are clearly big film fans. They showed her shit like Betty Davis again. Mildred Pierce, Alfred Hitchcock movies.

It's getting in there. But I do think a lot of my favorite filmmakers are people who find their way to filmmaking. Yeah. It is not the first obvious nor star that they're heading toward. And the way she approaches film definitely tracks with someone who's working in other mediums of art first and applying other sort of ways of thinking to,

filmmaking, rather than just a self-referential feedback loop of what other filmmakers have done. She refers to her parents as products of a certain intellectual working class movement towards self-improvement and self-empowerment that has all but disappeared with the client of communities and union power and all that. I think that's a very cogent way of thinking from Lynn Ramsey. She hits a teen. She hits her teenage years, falls for an older boy. Okay. And they start going to the Glasgow Film Theater, where she starts seeing more like European in art films like Fast Binder movies. She sees Blue Velvet.

Basically, the sort of arty anarchist boyfriend. She saw Ali Fury T's the Soul, an incredible movie. Blew her away. There was a dive cinema called The Salon and the West End of Glasgow that she liked. She also got very interested in photography. Glasgow at a visual arts center. There was a big dark room, and she was basically like a self-taught photographer. Cool.

Start to getting into that. She goes to Napier College in Edinburgh, which I think is an art school. studies fine art and photography. She likes, you know, Nan Golden, Robert Frank, Diane Arbus, Richard Billingham, or some of the names she shouts out. She sees meshes of the afternoon, that crazy fucking, you know, Maya Daron short film. It's always like on saying the sound list. It's so cool.

Worth watching guys, it's like 20 minutes long. It's like nothing you've ever seen. That blew her mind, and she applied to film school the day she saw it, she said the first day she could apply. She was rejected by the Royal College, messed up her interview. So instead she goes to the National Film and Television School, which is in Buckinghamshire, which is, you know, outside London. Just giving you. I'm giving you kind of... No, I'm liking it.

Yeah. And one professor takes an interest in her called Walter LaSalle, head of the camera department, who had won an Oscar for Best Cinematography for Zorba the Greek. Hey, have you ever seen Zorba the Greek. I haven't met him yet. I'd like to. Yeah. I haven't gone to Greece yet. It feels like that's going to pop up in some weird self-cureated blind spot

wash-through series that you launch into once a month. Absolutely. So he saw an eye. Apparently he plays a British writer in Before Midnight. You know how before midnight they're all like hanging out with folks? Yeah. At the table with Ariane Labet and everything. You know what I think is interesting to consider with Lynn Ramsey too is that at this time when she's in film school and is seriously developing as an artist,

the notion of Scottish film, especially to the rest of the world, is basically focused entirely around Bill Forsythe. He is a lovely filmmaker. A filmmaker I respect tremendously, but is about as far... Local hero. On the opposite end of the spectrum from Lynn Ramsey as possible.

Yeah, these kind of sweet, his housekeeping, adaptation of housekeeping is really good. Yeah, but right. Gregory's girl. Gregory's girl is, you know, it's cute. Gregory's girl is one of those films that gets foisted on you when you're British teenager where you're kind of like, yeah, it's all right. Bill Forsyth is like the most gentle, thoughtful,

kind of like winsome, these very kind of melancholy comedies. And I just think when you're dealing with countries that have smaller film identities and one director breaks out and especially when they've become someone whose work is getting exported, you know, Bill Forsyth is getting his movies released by American major studios with American stars in them.

It's like sometimes at film schools, maybe not like art-driven film schools, they're like, well, obviously, this is what our main product is now. Right. We need to put out more things like Bill Forsyth movies. Right, right. And Lynn Ramsey is doing something absolutely one of one at that time. Yeah.

I mean, he sees her eye. You know, the type of film director who comes up as a photographer, it is kind of like, okay, you got a way of looking at things. Not a way of telling a story maybe. But, you know, big influences for her as she's going through film school, Bresson, as we just mentioned. Wow. He has a famous book called Notes on the Cinematographer that I own and have read. I recommend to anybody. It's an incredibly easy read.

It's a hugely influential film school book, I feel. It's just kind of like a lot of statements. Right. It's basically this sort of strip-back, economical, non-intellectual approach to filmmaking. Like, it's Brasson at the time trying to be, much like all these new wave guys who are kind of like, let's, you know, do away with how things were done.

And let's, you know, I have a new approach. It's kind of him in Bill Maher mode. Yeah. And Marr's been trying to get him on Clubbrand. He's been listing off a new rules. Brassan is too random for Club Radio. Yeah, and two dead. The only issues.

She finds photography a way about documenting things. So as a film director, that's how she sort of, thinks about things. Like in Radcatcher, for example, she points to this moment where James's mother has the hole in the tover stocking that she's always darning. And James tries to pull the hole out of sight when she's sleeping, so she's perfect again. And it's an expression of his love for her boiled down to a little gesture. Like, she likes those kinds of little, little, you know, visual moment observation things.

Her visual style is very different than Brasson, who's a lot more. more kind of classical and formalists. But it was the storytelling and the writing, and I think the sort of intensity of the emotions without the films being melodramatic that she really sparked too. She says. Yeah.

So at the time, a lot of films are kind of making calling hard films. You know, you're trying to get this state money that'll maybe get you a feature for. film, right? And she says, I wasn't really good at that. I'm making like weird experimental shit that's not, you know, getting the same kind of attention. The criterion release has three or four short films. It's also on the criterion app at the moment we're recording this. Her graduation film is called Small Deaths. I think that's one of them, right? Isn't it? Small Deaths killed the day and Gasman or the three they have. Yeah.

Producer saw it. Let's take this to Cannes. It won the pre-dujury. then she falls up with Kill the Day wins another pre-du jury for her third short film which is called Gasman as you said. Very similar to Campion of like you build a recurring reputation

at Cannes with the short films and the sort of notion of like we're invested whenever you make a feature we're waiting and she cast her brother James and all of them

so you know that connection is there uh after the can success bbc's you know comes a calling and says write me a little feature film treatment please so you got bbc Scotland you got pfay the big european financiers and uh she hands them a 60 page treatment for rat catcher she said it was basically a very messy script had some potential obviously because they gave her some fucking money uh and she says what's it about well it's inspired by her own memories of growing up in glasgow uh the magical thing to her of being in a city that's right by the countryside. You can go into the hills really easily.

But obviously, imaginative weird stuff is in there. And, you know, I mean, the rubbish strike of 1975. So, you know, Britain's winter of discontent when, like, a lot of the garbage unions went on strike. A lot of unions went on strike in general. Garbage pot up in the street. That's happening in this movie in the background. Which sparks the rats.

The titular. That's why there's so many things. that need to be caught or because garbage is in the street a sign of something having gone wrong rather than New York where we just have garbage in the street all the time It's gotten better

It has Right It has Unfortunately you gotta give it up You know Adams for that You know what fuck it Fuck it, you know Fuck him

No no I know It was a big thing for Eric Adams Has been doing a great job Shout out to that lady And Svons also been doing a good job in Rat City Right he's been keeping things clean Absolutely Yeah, absolutely

Cool right Right, right, right. So she's got this little movie. She's got to find a kid. She looks at about a thousand kids from, like, working class, backgrounds, schools, youth clubs and stuff like that. Cast a little boy called William Eady. I don't know. Did he, like...

Almost everyone in this movie never acted. Right. It's not like he went on to act. Tommy Flanagan. Tommy Flanagan has... Very familiar, obviously, because he's... One of those... There are those Scottish or even, you know, there are those British working class actors.

who do plenty of stuff in their home country, and then America is like, you're gonna play bikers over here. Right. You wanna come over here and play, like, kind of bikers, sort of southern guys. Like, you know, you've got the beard, you've got the face.

Like, you can translate very, very nicely. Tommy Flanagan, Ben, is the one with a very distinctive facial scar. Scar on his face, yeah. But he's in Braveheart, like four years before this. Oh, okay. Which, when someone has a very unique feature to their face like that, Very often, as David said, Hollywood goes like,

got it, you're a character actor, we know where to place you. So he was on Sons of Anarchy for many, many years. He's one of the ravagers in Guardians of Galaxy 2. That's right. He's a gladiator. He pops up in all sorts of stuff. So, you know, obviously there is a script. It has the dialogue.

She says it's pretty close, but she tries to encourage improvisation all these kids. Tommy Flanagan, duh, you know, is pretty much. much the only, like, currently working, you know, like the professional actor. Mandy Matthews, who played Ma has quite a few credits. Okay, there you go. But almost everyone else was, yeah, not professional first time. Everyone involved in this movie, Alwyn Couchler, who's still an incredible DP, is, you know, film school pal.

But he, you know, he does, he's done, I mean, he shot like Steve Jobs. He's a great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and this movie looks astonishing. She's so good. Lucy is Akkaddy is the editor, Jane Jane Morton, the production designer. These are all film school pals for her. It's a tiny little crew. And, uh, right, Alan Kuchler shot Sunshine.

He did, he's done a lot of boils. Yeah. And they, they get along well or whatever. Good for them. Moving along here, right, JJ. I want to hear more... When she went to bed and when she woke up. Are there any, like, subchapter headings that indicate where that might be? Um, she, uh, shot mostly in the neighborhood of Govan.

Okay. I apologize if I'm saying that wrong. I do not know, uh, everything about Glasgow. Mm-hmm. A lot of little urban villages, sort of, uh, little suburbie. It's got the hills. Stunningly beautiful, kind of ugly, beautiful is the way she puts it. So, um, she liked that.

She says it is a bit of a dodgy area, you know, but like that, that was obviously kind of the vibe that she was going for. Um, it is a period. period piece. It's sort of like a quiet period piece because you don't really think about it because I feel like especially American audiences are like, I don't know, is Britain like this now? You could tell me, I've fucking had no idea. Unless someone's wearing like a powdered wig. Is this a sci-fi movie? Maybe it's set in their future. It's set in the 70s, which is obviously her childhood era. It was a frequent subject when it was released in Scottish Tabwoods because I guess the Glasgow mayor Pat Lally is in the film. And obviously the film has this. somewhat shocking. The bathtub scene. Yeah, it has a film with essentially underage nudity. Now, it's a sort of platonic and sort of sweet scene is how she intends it. It's these kids

playing together where there's kind of, it's like they're almost on the edge of like, you know, Roman, you know, like they're in that kind of like in between state. Yes, I think it's sort of pointedly unsexual. That's the point that it's sort of like they are at a stage before it would turn into that. And it

is very much in the tradition of, like, a lot of the photographers you were talking about who were a huge influence on her. There's a documentary I love... She admits it's risque. She meant it as an innocent scene, but she says she was lucky to get it. It was the toughest scene she ever shot. There's a documentary I really love that I forgot about until I was sort of reading about this called Tierney Gereen, the Mother Project, who is a photographer that I really love. but had a photography show that caused a lot of

hand-wringing in the way that she photographed her children and her mother and things like that. I don't know, that's just a recommendation of a film. But yes. Mike Lee apparently loved the film as speaking of him earlier. It makes a lot of sense. And we should talk about it and then we will discuss how it went to canon. It did great.

Okay. We can talk about the film first. Yes. Rat catcher. Now, it is, what, 90-minute? movie, you know. 93, I think, So can wet.

And it is, it's a wet film. It's, it's, very damp. Obviously, it has canals. It has a drowning. But it also is just damp when they're not in the canals. It's a damp-ass fucking country, Scotland. I love it there. You feel like everything's getting sprayed down a little bit before every take.

And it's, you know, it's a film that actually has a, what we would think is a hooky plot of like, it starts with, this boy is so, supportive, responsible, or kind of adjacent to the death of another boy. Yes. And has guilt over it. But that's not really what, you know, that's not really the plot of the movie. It is, it is basically an accident. Yes.

But he feels guilty and he's not telling anyone about it. You know, like he's like nursing a secret or whatever. And I do think, look, these things still happen all the time and are tragic. But I also think in an earlier time, they happened even more frequently. I'm obsessed with the, just to cite another documentary that I watch a lot. Tell them anything you want, the Mori Sendak documentary that Spike Jones and Lance Bangs made in the last couple years of his life when they were working on where the wild things are. I think it's like an incredible 40-minute thing. Sure.

That's mostly about Marie Sendak's thoughts on death and how death obsessed he has been his entire life. The river is the river Clyde. The Glasgow's River is called the River Klein. Thank you. But he talks a lot about Matt, how he had a similar incident when he was a child where he was playing, like, catch out in the street and the ball rolled and this boy got hit by a truck. Oh, God. You know? And I like to think about it. It's terrible. But that the mother of this child, that he was like beside himself, that he wouldn't leave his room, that he felt so guilty, that he felt cursed. Yeah. And that the mother of this child came over to specifically say, like, it's not your fault. And I forgive you.

know, that like these things sometimes just happen. And that is, in sort of what I was saying about Lynn Bramsey, the kind of thing we don't want to think about, that these things can happen in sort of such a meaningless way in which there is not someone you can really blame sometimes, especially when you're dealing with, like, children with underdeveloped brains. Well, that's the thing. When you're a kid. You don't understand the consequences of what they're doing.

You really, it's so, how do you process something like that? You just don't have the, like, the. life experience, you're too young to really be able to like fully grasp it. I mean, this is like a really scary thing about being a child, right? Your parents and your teachers and everyone around you try to teach you as much as they can. But in a lot of cases, you really only learn things when you come close to them being a problem, right? When you recognize that something almost just went horribly awry and the stakes suddenly become real inside of you, whatever it is, like touching your over the stove, right? Like, is the smallest example of that. And then, like, your brain now fully

understands, my parents are just telling me to not touch the stove because they're mean. If I held it longer, I would be scarred, you know? Yeah. And this is the kind of thing where you're like, the difference of a second, the difference of 15 degrees and movement is he jumps out of the water. And it's like, that was scary. That almost turned really bad. And instead it turns bad. Yeah. They're sort of just rough. housing and the boy dies. And I think it's kind of because of the boots. The gum boots.

His mother insists that he wear boots. Trying to get him to dress up for church. And they're really like tall rubber boots. And they fill up and I think pull him down. Right. It's horrible. And it happens right away. And you know, it's like how the film begins. And it happens in a kind of elusive way.

It is not, the movie is not. And then you have James's mother hugging him saying, I thought it was you, you know, like, you know, expressing her. her fear. And the other thing, too, you're almost like kind of blaming him. It's done in a way

where it's not showing him to be evil. Well, you've also barely gotten to know this character. Yeah. It actually starts to the other character. Yes.

It almost switches on you. And she's filming all of this in this fairly poetic way where you're kind of struggling to get your head around what's happening. Yeah. But the thing I wanted to say

is that if you become more aware that no one knows how to swim. Yeah, sure. Sure. So it's not like he could dive in. Right. And save his friend. He doesn't know how to swim.

He doesn't know, yeah, he's not a lifeguard. Right. I mean, it's like a joke I made when we did our Bright Star episode years ago. But that's a movie where arguably the central conflict is, Guy doesn't have a coat. Oh, God, he really. Winter is coming. You know.

So cold. Like, you do just, it is always kind of striking to see films about certain communities, especially in certain eras. where you're just like, there is just this huge vulnerability here. Anyone could kind of drown the water at any time. And that speaks to the way that the community reacts to all of this, which, like, is, it is not the most shocking thing that has ever happened in a community. You know?

Yeah. Well, they're also so desensitized because they're just living in these awful conditions. Yes. And you just feel the pressure and the tension of everything that's happening. Yeah. It's a tough opening. And the film is not as dark as, you know, like, after that. No.

Like, it's obviously, it's a, it's a gritty film. And it's, like, you know, about kids living sort of rough lives. But Kess, the film you mentioned, the Kemploch film, is, you know, this sort of, like, searing work of social realism that was, like, such a big movie when it came out as Kenloch's first feature film. and a boy in his hawk It's about this like really working You know dysfunctional kind of working class kid in Yorkshire Who who's Struggling at school and struggling at home

And then he gets really into falconry And you're just Hoc, what a fucking dumb idiot It's a cestrel obviously that's why it's Cass Jimmy Phil with laughing my ass My dumb happy meal ass You know it's Britain's old yellow Like in that it's like this movie where it's like

Kids have to watch it Degenerational But even as a kid you're like I mean when in when you're watching Cass, you're like, something fucking bad is going to happen to the bird. You feel it the whole time. Which, like, I'm sorry to spoil, but, like, something bad happens to the bird. And you know it. You know

like this is not going to end in this, like, sweeping, happy way. And whereas Ratcatcher does not work that way. That is not how rack hatcher, it's not like it's building to a tragedy. It starts with the tragedy. Yes. And then it's about, it actually kind of ends happily. It kind of does. In a way.

Like, it certainly, it kind of fakes you out that something bad has happened. And then it's like, but nothing bad has happened. And actually, he's probably grown a little bit. See, I had questions about that and maybe we wait to get to it later because I was actually unclear about the ending

and if it was real or a dream. I think it's real. I mean, you could interpret it as like, I guess, a weird kind of fantasy or dream, but I don't think so. I think it's more like, you know, he brushes up against a dark feeling and then, you know.

Yeah. But I don't know, maybe I'm bringing up. Yeah, I don't know. Oh, no, actually, right, the credits you see him. I, I think he dies. I think so, but I think you should read it. either way. I don't know. I know you're probably right.

I also think the thing... This movie... This movie does not... For starting with an accidental death, handle it in any plotty way whatsoever. Right, it's not a he's covering up a crime movie. Right, which you could just immediately... Your brain is trained from watching so many other shittier things

to assume that has to be how this progresses. And if it's not doing that, it's going to be... a movie specifically of intense suffering and processing. If it's not interested in the plotty aspects of the fallout of the death, then certainly it has to be entirely about this boy working through what he's experienced. But actually, you sort of forget about it for a while because other stuff's happening, and then it sort of starts brewing back up. In a way that I do think is a more accurate reflection of real life, you know?

I mean, I do, you read about horrible things that human beings go through. And my first question is always like, what do they have for like breakfast the next morning? Yeah. You know? I get that. We watch movies and read books that depict it as like a person just lies in a bed weeping for six months until they're resolved.

And you're like, but you do just have to go on living in some way. You know? You have to like go for a walk and like buy paper towels at the store. you know, and like make small talk with people who don't know what you've gone through and all these sorts of things and that you can go through these waves of sometimes feeling, I think, I say this is not someone who has experienced this level of tragedy before, but that I think there are sometimes almost like catatonic states of calm, you know, especially in the immediate aftermath.

It's not the kind of like Mystic River fall to your knees explosion that we all are used to seeing these things depicted. Is that his daughter in there? I have heard some things that have led me to believe based on the man with the weird neck tattoo yelling very loudly that it's his daughter in there. That's one of those movies where Clint Eastwood's Mystic River. And Sean Levy talks about this in the book he wrote.

You know, and first he says like... Sean Levy, director of... Right, Tatee comes in and he is riffing on whatever that quote. Epic. Epic. No, no, Sean Levy, who wrote the journalist who wrote... Yeah. ...talks about, you know, obviously Clint shoots one to two takes. And that is like, I think, the first take.

And you are kind of like fucking credit to Penn that he got there right away. Like he had to, and I guess Penn knew I have to like, I can't just like work on this sort of like over a few days. Like is that 50% of his Oscar win, not even the effectiveness of the scene, but them being like, oh, and he had to go from like zero to 100 and then they wrapped for lunch. She wins the Oscar because he'd lost for Dead Man Walking. Yes. And people sort of forget that that at the time was considered this crazy loss. It was a little bit equivalent to Denzel Malcolm X where you're like, this performance is so historic.

How in the world could we ignore this? And, you know, that's part of it. But also, yes, it was a big showy performance. It's just so annoying because then he, Penn did win his deserved Oscar for milk. Right. And he could, we could have just waited. And with one battle, which he is obviously phenomenal in,

you're just sort of like, yeah, but does Sean Penn need three Oscars? certainly doesn't. No, he certainly doesn't. He doesn't. But he is very good in it. He is unbelievable in it. Yeah. Who did Penn be?

Oh, well, he beat Bill Murray. Right. Which would have been nice. That would have been nice. It would have been. And he'd be Johnny Depp for Pirates of the Caribbean, which was like, that was a moment. Right. And then.

You've heard of that. He played his character. And those two guys, everything's been chill. Regular. Yeah, I'm realizing this is like a really normal category of well-balanced men. So Ben Kingsley and Jude Lard, the other nominees. Okay. So, yeah.

I guess is Ben Kingsley the chillest? Yes. Because he's famously not that chill. I have only heard that he is the most intense human being who has ever lived. But not dramatic. Right. He's just laser focused on being intense. I mean, Jew law's never been canceled or anything like that.

But, you know, I don't know, he's gotten in some naughty trouble with the ladies. You know, he's had a couple of affairs or whatever. I would have to say that he's gotten in some naughty trouble with the ladies. I think let's be clear Let's give it to fucking Jude for Cold Mountain Let's put an Oscar on Cold Mountain When you say, Noddy trouble with the ladies

It sounds like you're talking around me too rather than like That guy maybe likes to fuck too much Yeah, I don't And right doesn't he have like He has kids with a You got many many many kids She has seven Yeah

That's seven is a high number Anytime he's not judging Anytime he's promoting like a hundred and fifty million movie where he has a funny mustache and plays a villain They're like what do you do this role And he's like seven children, five mothers. That's like athlete numbers. You know when you start hearing about those athletes who are like, yeah, I got like 14 kids.

What do you want for me? He's the Nick Cannon of the UK. I was going to say, I think they are on a text thread. Yeah. That is wild, though, that you're like, right. That best actor category is four of the most extreme men on the planet and just Randy Jude Law. David? Yes.

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Do your best impression of a chime. This is interesting, right? Like, I'm like, if I say the word chime, how do you vocalize that? I'm like, is it like, ring or ring?

Or is that, by making it multiples, does that define? I feel like now we're in ring territory, not chime. Is it like a pring? Do you know what I'm saying? Ben,

do you have any opinions on this? That's interesting. I'm trying to think of my take on a chime. Yeah. Kind of like, Chee. You're more of a tring. kind of thing.

Here's my kind of unconventional impression of a chime, okay? I'm hearing. I'm listening. Hello, I'm Chime. I'm changing the way

people bank. Yes, there's a company called Chime. That's so true. And they're sponsoring this episode. Chime's got fee-free and smarter banking

built for you. It's not those old school banks that charge you overdrafts and monthly fees built for you, not the 1%. Chime unlocks smarter banking for

everyday people with products like my pay, which gives you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit, some old banks still don't do this. Here's my impression of one of those old banks. Here's another fee for you. And here's my impression of chime. Hey, what's up, man? No fees, baby. Yeah, forget overdraft fees, forget minimum balance fees, forget monthly fees,

Chim turns every day spending into rewards and progress. You get paid when you say up to $500, you can earn up to 3.5% APY on your savings, which is eight times higher than a traditional bank. That is pretty high. That is pretty high. It's rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. They got real humans on the line 24-7. Many a bank cannot say that. I can definitely confirm that.

Very true. The last time I called my bank, I think I got like a wildebeest on the line. There's just something barking at me. Some banks actually just have plant sent to the phone. Yeah. Yeah. Look, they've got a new car that unlocks safer credit building. and cashback with everyday spending.

So imagine cashback and credit building with your own money finally on the same card. That's kind of cool. No annual fees, no interest, no strings attached. And when you get qualifying direct deposits, you get 1.5% cashback on eligible time card purchases. So I think my younger self would have benefited from this, Griff, when I was getting used to banking. Yes.

As opposed to the babe in the woods that I was going to wherever I went. I can tell you, but I probably shouldn't say it on this app. Bank of the woods. I banked with a woods witch. It was weird. Just run by a wolabest. She just put my money into a tree. Into a hole in a tree.

I had to go get the money from the hole. Listen, you can switch to Chime in just a few minutes. It's going to be one of the easiest moves you ever make. You don't just switch banks. You upgrade to a smarter fee free. I like saying that. Fee free free way of managing your money. You'll never feel more in control of your paycheck.

Chime is not just smarter banking. it is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking. Be free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.com slash blank check. That is chime.com slash blank check. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank.

Bank, banking services, a secured Chime Visa credit card and my pay line of credit provided by the Bank or Bank N.A or Stride Bank N.A. My pay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com. Slash news info. Advertised annual percentage yield with Chime Plus status only.

Otherwise, 1.000% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. Rat catcher. Rat catcher. James, our little boy, lives in Glasgow.

But sometimes he takes this bus to like the end of the road. Right? And he like just goes and fucks around in this kind of like unbuilt or like I think it's under construction housing estate that's like... Utopian landscape. Right by this field of wheat. Exactly. And it's like, and it's suddenly like there's so much color like that that shot of, you know, like through the window of like this blue sky. in the, you know, like, suddenly it's not fucking raining.

It is the moment of like, in my opinion, it's the moment of extreme transcendence in this film. When he's sort of exploring around this, I was going to say abandoned, but it's unfinished, in-progress home. And looking through its window and seeing this, like, insane, picturesque kind of Terence Malick field of golden wheat. and then he jumps through the window into it and runs through it. And it feels like he's jumping into a painting, like he's jumping into a Van Gogh or something. Yeah. So he's got that.

That's nice. But it's like the aspiration to escape his entire life. And then, right. It's not just about the death that he's experienced, but it's like he's surrounded by like constant pain, effort, struggle. And he's also constantly surrounded by people. I mean, it is such cramped. living conditions. He shares quite a small apartment with his family. No one seems happy. Everyone is

going through it. But it is not, again, nil by mouth of like, this is about an experience of boys having of, like, extreme social neglect. It's more just like their lives are fairly shitty. Yes. And he's got some siblings. Uh, you know, his dad is, you know, always, you know, seems to be, you know, on the lash sometimes, not to. On the lash? Yeah. Does that mean three sheets to the wind? Yeah, going out, getting fucking trash. You would say essentially, like, what are we doing tonight? We're going to go out on the fucking lash, mate, you know.

Yeah. So, you know, I like that it is basically not some fucking movie that's, like, made for, like, a government official to watch and be like, we need to send more money. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's some movies like that where it's like, this is a statement film about like, you know, an extreme condition. It's more just like, no, man, this is just what life is like for a lot of people.

It's weird, you know, especially at this time, you know, in the 70s, in an urban situation. Yeah. Without feeling like it's trying to push a point. Exactly. Just kind of over the top. So, but there's the prong of like he has these kind of like magical little adventures. And then there's the pro-uner's family life is kind of like,

a bit dodgy. And then there's the gang, the Neds. I think. is what they call them in Scotland. Yes. In England, London, we call them Yobs. Who regularly target this young girl, Margaret Ann. Played by the actress. His name is Leanne Mullin.

She's pretty phenomenal. She's great. She's great. And, like, James and Margaret Ann feel like the vibe is just like, they're just both a little different. Maybe a little more sensitive, a little less interested. But Margaret Ann's obviously sort of being targeted

in this, like, vaguely sexual way. Like, they're kind of, like, flirting with her. they're kind of, you know, like crushing on her and they're being horrible to her. I think she, Ramsey captures a really fascinating energy, which is sort of these boys have targeted, like, the nerdy girl with the glasses, right? They throw her glasses in the river so she can't see. It is clearly being motivated by sexual energy, like them struggling to come to terms with developing urges. And that's why they're all fucking.

insane to each other too. I mean, this is all like awful boy shit at that age. But it's like easier. My boys are going to live in padded cells from like age 13 to 20. I'm just cutting that off. Just buy padding now.

You might as well. They need it. But it's this thing that like I just don't know if I've ever seen another movie capture and especially because it does it without explaining itself of like they're so horned up in a general sense that they target the person

who they view to be kind of like least attractive or conventionally desirable and then just kind of fuck with her. They're not like violently attacking her physically. And they're also not making moves on her. But everything just has this kind of like odd, unprocessed energy around it. And James sort of figures out how to like throw himself in front of her. Yeah, kind of divert the attention. In a way that both, like, stops them from really inflicting harm upon her in any number of ways,

but also makes him kind of seem like one of the lads in a way where then they aren't going to attack him. There's the moment where he lies on top of her that I find so effective. Well, where the boys are like, go on, go on, go on, you know, like, there's this kind of, like... There's this energy of, like, someone should get on top of her and dry hump her. Wouldn't that be funny? Right. And what he does is gets on top of her and like planks. Planks on her.

He's inventing planking. And basically gets to like do the move of I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. To stop them from doing anything bad. Right. When he knows exactly what he's doing. A little sacrifice. He's just blocking.

Yeah. I should point out obviously, we haven't mentioned this, but this film, you know, they're talking and there's sort of Glasgow dialect. Did you guys throw on the subtitles or would you, do you free ball it? For sure. You free ball it on this one. This is one of the rare English language. films that was just straight up distributed in

in theaters in America with burned in subtitles. Burn that onto the fucking negative right now, baby. Don't even worry about it. Don't even try. It's, I am very like, you know, even to this day, I'm very, I'm fine listening to regional British accents and can watch movies and I can discern what they're saying, but this is definitely one, especially also because of the verit thing. I was going to say, it's got like Altman, everyone yelling over each other.

Eight characters. I'm like, let's throw on that one ing. Let's hit that button right there. Hey, baby, it's fine. It's fine. Don't feel bad. We put them there for a reason. Yeah.

So you've got the sort of really grim stuff we're talking about. And then there'll be moments like one of the boys and the gang gets a little pet mouse and they're all fucking around with a mouse. You know, yeah, Jesus, this is, you know, animal violence stuff is so, like, uncomfortable. They're all trying to catch these rats, but then you're like, is this going to turn into a torture situation? Right, where they're going to do their mouse. Then they tie the mouse to a balloon and they make it fly. And then there's this like a little fantasy sequence of the balloon going in space.

Yeah. But it's so kid-like. It has this kid logic to it. They're like, that's what it's going to do. Yeah. Yeah, that is kind of wonderful and fanciful, although also distressing. But you also, it speaks to... Kind of a Lind Ramsey vibe.

Yep. It's a real, like, core text moment of her entire worldview as an artist, in my opinion. And it speaks to, like, the overriding theme. of this movie, which is like, is there any way to get out of this? To get out of this energy, out of these social situations, out of poverty, out of what is happening in our local government, you know, the dream of just like, could I fucking jump through a window and run through the week? He can literally do that, but he can't stay.

It also feels like these rats are here and we cannot cohabitate with them, but also he doesn't want the rats to be murdered by these bullies. if you tie a rat to a balloon, can the rat just go to the moon and live there and be happy? But this is actually a pet store of mouse. And I think the distinction is important. Yep, it is. Yep. A little white mouse.

Yes. It's also one of those things, not to be cynical, because I don't think Lynn Ramsey made this movie with any cynicism. But like, of like, okay, you know, I'm making my indie movie. I have my little budget, like my sort of two million pounds or whatever it is. I get to do one kind of ambitious thing. 10% of my budgets on this one. Let's set aside a little bit for like something that's a little outside of whatever I'm going for generally. Right.

And it sticks in your head. You know, it's like if you're, and again, if you're a fucking can and you're like, ooh, what films have an certain regard this year? And you watch that. You're like, I can't forget the movie where the fucking mouse was on the balloon. A certain regard. But in film festivals. You're watching four movies a day. Yeah.

Maybe you're watching this movie at 9 a.m. Or maybe this is the last movie you watched in a day. at like 11 a.m. This is one of those things where you're gonna lean forward and even if you don't like it say who the fuck is this? Sure. Who made this?

Who's this now? And just a correction of another plot detail I got wrong. Something that I never do on this podcast. Ryan, the friend, the boy who dies at the beginning,

the mother made him put on the boot specifically because he was going to visit his father in prison. Oh, that's right. That's right. It speaks to even just... Right. This grimness.

grimness the loop of inevitability. And then she gives James the boy. She gives him Ryan's sandals. Right, right. So in nicer shoes she gives. And she had gone out to get those sandals while he ran off to play. Let's wrap it up. These episodes, I can't think about this.

But she also has that scene where she wants to look at him because he reminds her of him and is saying like your eyes are the same. Not like seeing you reminds me of his death. Like, is your face close enough that I can still experience some of it? And that scene is his mother pushing him to give this woman the moment she needs. And he just doesn't even know how to react. You know, he doesn't push back against it in an extreme way. He doesn't start crying.

It's just like I don't understand the intensity of emotion happening right now. And it's very genuine of that age too, the way that he plays this just like frozen. I don't know what to do. I feel like that character, he does it a few times or even adults talk to him. he's just like unable to respond or communicate or even just react to them. And Margaret Ann clearly becomes like his one ally, the one person who he feels some kind of solace and understanding from. But also they don't talk that much.

And when they're talking, they're not talking about their feelings at length. It is basically just the two of them sensing there are Sympatico energies here. we both feel overwhelmed by the same things happening around us. Right. We're both trying to reckon with the things happening inside of us. Yeah. Right. Me, I don't know.

I'd probably just be like, I'm going to go to law school. Maybe, you know, get a great job and just fucking pull my bootstraps. Work for JD Vance. Oh, that's so true. And, you know, Hillbilly Ellogy is like a really similar film in terms of quality and like... Well, better. It's a better film. It's a better film and it had a better effect on our world.

Culture. Sure. I know you're saying that this movie is pointedly not kind of an issues, like, driving a point movie. It's funny because I look at Hylbilly, yes. No, no, you look at Hylvilley. Yeah, you want to talk more about that one. It was a statement movie. The statement was, elect him. It's, God bless Ron Howard, who has made films I like. It seems like a guy with a head and his shoulders. And has said, like, I said publicly, like, I'm sort of a little baffled and saddened by J.D. Vance's career. I do not think that was anyone's intent in making that film. And in fact, many people have psychoanalyzed, including people close to him.

people close to him? That he felt rejected by like, you know, the negative rejection from Hollywood and much like Donald Trump. That the cool celebrities didn't like his movie. Who knows? Who knows? Radicalized. Personally, I think J.D. Vance's.

No good. Personally, I think we live in hell. Personally, I like to say because I agree with Jamel that he is a pig man. He is a pig man. But Ron Howard. Another great take from him. One, you don't want to have made that movie.

I'm sure Ron Howard's like, ah, fuck, why'd I make that? I wake up every morning and go, Thank God. I still haven't made Hillbilly Elegie. For all of my other mistakes, I have yet to direct Hillbilly Elegie once. It's a nice thing to remind myself. So I have empathy for Ron Howard in that position. Ron Howard post rush, which is one of my favorite movies he's made, a film I really love, the sports film rush.

One of the weirdest runs. Has been on one of the weirdest fucking runs. It's crazy. It's not good. It's not bad. It's just fucking bizarre. I'm going to read it to you. In the Heart of a Sea, Whaling Epic.

Kind of a great idea. The movie didn't go over Like, alternate telling of Moby Dick, giant financial disaster. A true story of Moby Dick, but right, starring like three Marvel actors. Inferno, the third and forgotten Robert Langton adaptation.

Look, let me do something safe. Inferno will work. And at the moment Inferno comes out, people were like, we decided we hate these. We don't care anymore. And he's like, you hate them now? I think it cleared enough internationally to not be a disaster.

But domestically was a disaster. Ignored in America. Yeah. solo a Star Wars story did the mop-up job on that bang-up job there, Bronny. Normal. Hillbelly elegy.

Normal. Yeah. 13 lives. The one I haven't seen and the one everyone always tells me like, you know what? That movie is sneaky good. The tie diver movie with Vigo and Farrell?

I remember. Yep. And I'm trying to remember who the third guy is. Edgerton. I bet you he plays a slightly taciturned fellow. A friend of the podcast who's a screenwriter, I remember telling me that summer that there was.

a screener link circulating that him and all his writer friends on a group text had watched. Yeah. And they were just like, this thing is winning best picture. Yeah, no, we've talked about it.

And then Amazon was like, should we fart that out in August? Amazon was like, what if we put it in theaters for 30 minutes? And the theaters were like, you know that's less time than the movie runs for it. It's too late. And they were like, but it's going to be prominently

placed on the streaming service. And they're like, no, it's a drop-down option when you're trying to pick how many rolls of toilet paper you want to buy it once. And then last year, there was Eden, which was at festivals the year before.

Which our man Bilga has been banging the drum for you guys don't understand how fucking weird this thing is. It is weird. I watch it. It's on Netflix now. You can just watch it.

You're allowed. Uh-huh. And I watch it. And again, I was kind of hoping for it. And I was pretty disappointed by it. But it is fucking weird. It's definitely weird.

And it's definitely a movie where if I, like, sat you down and was like, just watch this film. Yeah. You know, survivalist sort of true story thing about people who live on a weird island in the Galapagos, Sydney Sweeney, Daniel Bruel, weirdest Cassie ever saw. Yeah. And then you watch it.

And then I'm like, who do you think directed that? Ron Howard would be the 800th name your set. Right. Like, you would go through. You'd be naming dead people. And I'd be like, no, it was Ron Howard? And you'd be like, no, it wasn't. Was it I to Lupino?

You know, like, you would just keep, yeah. The most interesting thing about Eden is imagining him saying the directions out loud on set. Right, right. Now, Sydney, what I'm going to need for you in this take is to take one tit, just one tit out. Yeah, how many movies has he made with nudity? I'm sure he's a couple, but sort of Spielberg-y in that way. It's not really his wheelhouse. Yeah.

But, hey, you know, sometimes you got to just go move to the Galapagos Islands. Do we even know what he's doing next? Yeah, he's making a war movie with Adam Driver, which kind of sounds cool. Oh, yes. That one does so cool. Vietnam movie. He also, like, has made like seven documentaries in the last. He's like, are you a war? a boomer icon.

I'm putting that shit on Hulu right now. Someone made a Reddit thread in R slash Blankies that was like, why doesn't Ron Howard get discussed more? He feels like an obvious, perfect candidate for the show. And people were arguing, is he more of a journeyman?

Is he sort of like a studio guy? Does he have a strong enough identity? And I just responded, 32 films plus eight documentaries. It's crazy. Like, that's why we're not doing him. That's one of the reasons. But it's like

There are other reasons But that one settles it I'd have him on Who would love to have on? Great voice Great voice Remember you guys might not know this He was the voice of Arrested of Allman

You guys know that? Does not? Do you know what Ben? You might have to cut this out Ben's looking at me like I'm an asshole Right now crazy You might have to cut this out Ben Do you know that he was opie on the Andy Grip

That's right Oh right It's one of Hollywood's best kept secrets So we're kind of done with the plot of Rackatcher almost. I'm trying to think, okay. It's not a plot, exactly. So he preends this girl.

He fucks around with the boys who are tough. He tries to find his balance in between, staying on their good side and not becoming one of them. Which is interesting when you think about the Bone Temple, which is the other movie we'll be discussing today. We're doing back-to-back records. I watch these two movies. Back-to-back.

And then we're recording these two episodes back-to-back, and it is fascinating how much the movies echoed each other in a lot of ways. It is that sort of like turning point in a boy's life that both movies are really, really obsessed with. Yeah. This is an age where you are not mature enough yet to really have empathy. Yes.

It makes me think of the Malaney joke of where 13-year-olds are the meanest. Yes. It's the meanest age. The worst age. Yeah. They're smart enough to identify what you don't like about. about yourself, but not filled with shame enough yet to be quiet. Yes.

You know. Yes. I've quoted an anonymous friend of mine who works in a field with children who always says, uh, being a teenager should be a legally admissible defense for insanity in court. Kind of is. Their brains are just exploding. Yeah. And it's just, it's like a real fucking like, you know, you're, you're on a knife's edge

figuring out how to be a good person, you know, and so little influence in the wrong direction can really set you off in a bad place. And also, these are lost kids. I mean, these are lost kids. These kids are not latchkey kids, but it is kind of a like, just go out and play. I don't see a single playground.

I don't see a ball. No. They have garbage and a fucking river thing. Yeah. But you're like, they're circumstantial latchkey kids, right? Like, I feel like the term latchkey kid is applied to, like parents who do not engage, who do not lock in and pay enough attention with their children.

And this is almost like a societal construct that is preventing children for being properly parented. I just want to say as a former latchkey kid, it is also when your parents both have to work. Yeah. To make ends meet. Yes. But like the notion of a latchkey kid is gone.

Like it's like that's just not acceptable anymore socially. And it's like, fuck, what was I just watching that was set in the early... Oh, no, I was just thinking about E.T., right? Which is like the... E.T. is the ultimate Latchkey Kid movie. But it's about the waning days of that era, because then, you know, the late 80s,

Eats and Pats, like stuff like that, it starts being like, well, you can't let your kid be by themselves. It's 10 p.m. do you know where your children are... Right. And so now it's like, no, your kid needs to be in an after-school program and your kid needs to be, whatever. You know, like, the Latchkey kid goes away. And it's like the 70s and 80s are the sort of height of the latchkey kid. I feel like.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. But it's more suburban thing, too. Like the little kid biking home from school. Like, I didn't do that shit. Took the, you know, public transit in London. That's what I did. Took the bus.

From age of 11. I took the bus as well because my parents didn't trust the subway. Right. Well, they had the kind of like. There was a year or two. Sort of that era. Specifically post 9-11 when there was so much concern that that would be a target where my parents would make me take the bus home.

And I went to school on 85. first street and lived on 8th Street. Jesus. And it was just the worst bummer to, like, all my other friends lived close to the school. And they'd be hanging out. And I could hang out for exactly 35 minutes before I was in the danger zone of the bus being slow enough that I'm back home past curfew, you know, or for family dinner or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, eventually the garbage gets, resolved. I mean, there's even like a shot with this garbage thing of like one of his sisters. She's sitting on the garbage eating like something. It is basically

become furniture. I want to correct myself. So, you know, the winter of discontent, the famous winter of discontent, which is when Britain, which is still governed by labor government, James Callahan's become the PM. Harold Wilson resigns. James Callahan becomes PM. Like tons of different units go on strike, the TUC, which is the overarching Union, starts like fighting with the government a lot and so like all kinds of things start fucking up sort of structurally in Britain it's 1978 and 1979 and that's famously the downfall of labor and thatcher comes in for you know and the Tories rule for 17 years and everything was no problem for those rest of time yeah yeah um but uh this is set in 75 and

Glasgow had a 13 week dustman worker strike okay uh so it's set during a very specific uh you know, labor action in Glasgow in the 70s. I love this scene because what happens is the army

comes in to clean up the garbage. And I like that Lynn, you know, has some people being like,

fuck you. You know, like, you know, this is a union town. Like, you know, this is a union country.

And like, they're berating the army for scabbing. And you have the one lady who's like, ah, shut a flea, you know,

garbage, rubbish. And then look, some guy is like, shut up, you old bag face cow or whatever, like he's fucking lays into her.

I just love all that that little sweet color stuff. I also love that Lynn Manuel is like, and I am throwing away my trash. The way you said Lynn, it just put an emphasis on and I felt like I had to circle back to that.

He has the song about throwing away and the movie's really about trash in a lot of ways. Another legal action has been He now owns blank checks. In my defense. And has sold it. I am but a teenager. Okay.

A little before the army stuff, we should talk about how Kenny, the weird animal kid. Yes. Kenny's the kid who instigates all the drama and almost drowns himself. And he's da rescues him, right? James, sorry. James' father rescues him. There's nearly a second incident. James' father becomes like the subway hero. you know, like in 30 Rock. Like he gets like a little burst of excitement

from, yeah, from getting the kid out of the canal. And how does he celebrate, guys? Well, of course he buys a bottle of scotch and gets fucking blotto. Yeah, yeah. Shouldn't laugh. And we then have, you know, it's not overly dramatic,

it's very grounded like everything. But he does, you know, he hits his wife. It's terrible in front of, the children. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, this film is about people who are just kind of stuck in dead ends. Yeah. Right? This, this feeling of there is no other place to go. And this is what it is. And I guess this is also in the, there's the really lovely dance sequence that you reference at the beginning of the episode. I think that's kind of in this, because then after they get into a fight, they, you see that they figure it out and dance. together.

The wife and the husband. You know, there's nice stuff, there's nasty stuff. Yeah. Do you ever see Sweet 16, another Kenloach film? No. Really good film. Also set in Glasgow or around there. Also about like a teenage boy

kind of dealing with whatever, you know, life. And that one I think is present day, 2002, same time. Good movie. It was just like living in Britain at the time. There's like the various, brands of British movie. There's old ladies have tea in a village type movies, right?

Like, those will travel. Yeah. Like, those get ported over to America. That's $20 million Samuel Goldman films immediately. You know, Jane Austen, Charles Dick, you know, period stuff where people are like, oh, that's happening. Or like, oh, the, they always have the thing on their neck, you know. The rough? Yeah.

I mean, that's a certain era. But, yeah, they did do that for a while in Britain. You know, like, maybe you should bring in a rough. I've been thinking about it, you know, and we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll be. We'll be.

Become a rough rider. There's the kind of full Monty influence, kind of like, these guys are doing something silly. A couple mad lads. Right, right. That also is hoping to travel. That's hoping to get thrown over the pond. And then there's this thing where it's like, yeah, well, life fucking sucks here, man. You live in a council estate and someone's drunk.

and no one can understand anything anyone's saying. Everyone has lice. The lice stuff in this. Did you guys ever have had lice? I did. Yeah, I did. And it's so, yeah, I think I was 11 or maybe 10. I was in primary school, it was in Britain.

Yeah. And it's still so visceral for me that, that feeling of, like, being in the bathroom and your mom, like, combing your hair out with a fucking metal comb. Yeah. And, like, being like, look, you know, and, like, you see all this shit. I like that he has the moment if they remove the lice. And he's like, oh, wow. won't say it. Yeah.

I have another visceral thing, and this is something you guys probably didn't deal with, but also ticks. I have a very visceral memory of a... That's a real, you know, if you're playing outdoors thing. Yeah. My mom had Lyme disease that hit her really hard for a couple of years where she was

largely bedridden. So the specter of ticks loon large. And that's why I pursued the role on the TV show so aggressively, so I could kind of take back the word and to refocus the trauma into something real. Everything I just said is real.

Go on, Ben. I just wanted to say, but the way that you get a tick off, at least this is how my dad did it, is... Yep. Lit a match, blow it out, and then they press it on the tick so it will release. Kind of similar to like a leech. You ever got a leech?

Which only happens to those kids and stand by me. Well, you guys did that, right? That's you bloodlet to treat, you know, a cold, a common cold. Like a Tudor medicine, too. where they're like, the problem is in your blood. We need all that blood out of your body right away. And that's also why David so aggressively pursued a co-starring role on the TV series The Leach.

So he could work through. David, the legal... David's applauding and giving me two thumbs up. The legal documents are piling up. We're being sued by leeches? Just those guys. From the creative team behind the Brutelist and starring Academy Award nominee, Amanda Seifers. in a career best performance.

Searchlight Pictures presents The Testament of Anne Lee. With rave reviews from the Venice Film Festival, this bold and magnetic musical epic tells the story inspired by a true legend, Anne Lee, founder of the radical religious movement, The Shakers, The Testament of Anne Lee, now playing in an exclusive Toronto engagement

in theaters everywhere January 23rd. Barry Jenkins. Sure. His criteria in closet video video, which is, uh, pretty early on, and I feel like the closet being a thing. Sure. He like pulls out the Rat Catcher DVD, had not yet done the Blu-ray release, and says, like,

this is the first criterion that Barry Jenkins ever owned, which I like that phrasing of it. And it is the third person, but he does point to it and he kind of explains why it was like a seismic, life-changing experience when, I don't know, he got that film from his university library or a teacher handed it to him. But you see a lot of influence from this on Moonlight, I think. 100%. Just even just that start. The way Moonlight starts where it's in those kind of abandoned houses in that neighborhood

in Miami. In the cut. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. All. Yes. It just feels like this movie's influence is quietly larger.

It's a good ass movie. Moonlight is. is pretty fucking terrific. PFG. I feel like is it already starting to... It's underrated. Get a little forgotten? Yeah.

Not forgotten. I just think it's underrated. I mean, you know, and Barry fucking made a TV show that unfortunately no one saw. Right. Like, because of both it's a TV show people struggle with that

and came out right in the pandemic. That unfortunately too many people saw. What is the show? The Underground Railroad. Yeah. Which is very, very good. It's just like one of those things where it's like, it came out right in the pandemic.

pandemic was happening, early pandemic. But it does make it feel like I love Beale Street. I think it's incredible. Incredible. But then it's... It's been a long time since Barry's kind of been at like the top of the combo. It feels like we're waiting for the next film in

that run and it's been two other things. No, Moonlight I think is one of the best American films ever made. It's so fucking cool that it won best picture. We've talked about this before, but like the weirdness of that ceremony and how it all went down,

I do think also tends to overshadow how crazy it is that won best picture in a good way. You know, versus like Parasite having that same triumphant moment of like, oh my God, the good thing won. But that just being like unimpeded by any drama. Yeah, no, no.

Yeah, there was a bit of drama with my two favorite Oscar wins of all time, Moonlight and King Richard. Honestly, Bill Simmons was doing the most rewatchable sports movies of the 21st century with Sean. on on the rewatchables. And he brought up King Richard. And they were both like, this movie would be a sort of like

nicely remembered three and a half star fun sports movie if he fucking had him slavd Curse Rock. Like just like, you know, not like people would be like, wow, one of the great movies. People would just like, oh, yeah, yeah. King Richard's all right.

Absolute TNT classic. I remember saying to you has any movie ever lost cultural value faster? Like within seconds. You mean? Yeah. I mean, probably. It's so weird.

Like, it's like O.J. Simpson murdering people did not tarnish the naked gun as much as the fact that it's like him winning that Oscar and then being tied to that moment. Everyone was just like. Forget that movie. Then we're like, we're all just going to agree to pretend that movie didn't exist, much like Creed 3. I know this is a point you made, but like Creed 3 for like made like $300 million worldwide. And six weeks later, it was like, so we've all promised to never speak of this again. I love that movie. It's a very good movie.

But a movie that also in another universe, I could imagine myself rewatching all the time. And instead, it feels like an intentional cue up. Yeah, we should watch. She pre-watch Creed 2, too, which isn't that good, but ease of fun sports movies. Yeah, I remember Creed 2 being... I like the ending a lot.

Functional. I like the ending a lot. I think Dolph just crushes that. I was going to say the Stallone Dolf restaurant scene. I like all that shit. I just love Dolf. I'm basically always here for Dolf. Yeah.

I don't know where he was the king of Atlantis. Yeah, of course. I believe he was the king of a specific clan. He wrote a seahorse. Yeah, he did. Oh, oh, oh. Beautiful flowing around here. I'm well aware that he did that.

We used to be a proper country. We used to be a proper sunken subcontinent. That's Atlanta. You see that thing where James Juan was like, I could direct the Avatar sequels. James, if you don't want to. Yeah. Like, I want James Cameron directing Avatar sequels. that is the first person to throw their hat into the ring

where I'm like, not a disaster. So the thing with Kenny is he does sort of almost drown himself, but then late in the film, he just starts taunting James about how he killed Ryan in this sort of out of nowhere way. Poking, truly poking the brides. And that provokes this sort of ambiguous thing at the end of, like, he sort of throws himself into the water. Yes.

And then you see him happy and then you see him in the water and you're sort of like, you know, sort of a succession situation. Jeremy Strong floating in the pool there. Absolutely, which I heard was normal to shoot. He, well, yes, there is ambiguity of whether it is to some degree a fancy sequence, him placing himself in the memory to process it in the other boys' ill-fitting shoes. Or is this him killing himself. But it's also like the imagery continues. over the credits, but he is alive. He is alert.

He is moving. His eyes are open. It is what makes it a little more fantastical, feel a little less literal. It cuts to black and it says James will return an Avengers Doomsday. So I figured he was coming back. Yeah. He is Rat Catcher 1. DC owns Rat Catcher 2.

I, I, my, my interest excitement level for Doomsday is pretty low. But I will say, I think. What about that one trailer where Captain America tried to sell you see Alice. I think giving us what it looks like. Blank will return an Avengers

Doomsday. I know that's a thing that's existed since James Bond. It has. Right, of course. But there's something about the self-importance of those trailers

versus how unexciting they are and ending. It's also just like where they're like Thor will return and I'm like likely place for him to be an Avengers movie. You're fucking shitting.

Yeah, you want me to what? Just like call like should I have a town meeting to tell them Thor's in an Avenger movie? Greta Garbo will return an Avengers Doom's Day, you have my interest. Right. The Polar Express will return? Long, retired, even longer dead. That would get my... Your nose is bleeding?

Happens sometimes. Do you need tissues? We'll see. It's just a little... This is interesting. I think Blank Will Return and Avengers Doomsday is really valuable for the culture. I also think much like Moonlight, in this analogy, Blank will return in Avengers Dooms Day is parasite. And we're forgetting that just a little bit earlier, much like Moonlight, we were introduced to the chairs. I know.

And I think the chairs have to come back. You want them to do more chairs? I think the chairs are one of those valuable bit formats we have in the movies. But do you think Blankville Return has replaced the chairs? I think a little bit. And it might just be that we're in a moment of people being so excited by Blankville

return. And we'll loop back around to the chairs. It's not just that they're like, oh, Patrick Stewart will finally send off Professor X. I'm like, he's fucking died on screen as professor literally like already three times maybe four yeah and but it's just also that the trailer is like magneto and professor's being like death comes for us all and i'm like yeah you fucking should know it comes for you all it comes to you every five minutes it came for you in a film directed by brett ratner that's how long ago it came for you brett ratner was the choice to direct it

but this time they're going to communicate this to each other while playing chess that's something you've never seen in an X-Men movie before. Because it's like, he dies in X-Men the Last Stand. He gets exploded. Professor X? Yeah. And then spoilers for X-Men the last stand. At the end, he returns in someone else's body. His consciousness

is transferred over. Don't worry about it. Yeah. And then he Then we go to first class. Then we're dealing with younger prequel, Charles. Sure, sure, sure. But then he died. He doesn't die. I checked in days of future past. It's like a bullet or an energy ray is about to

hit him when like time is stopped, but he's almost dead. But in Future Past, somehow he got his old body back. They do not address it. He's still alive. They do not address it at all. We know he beat death the first time by moving to a guy in a comatose state. Don't fucking address it. Don't worry about it.

Logan, of course, he dies. Big time. But that's a sort of alternate future. Yeah. And then same with multiverse of madness. Some version of him gets his neck fucking snapped by Wanda Maximoff. So you're like it's truly three. I've seen the guy die as Professor Egg.

I've seen him die in other stuff too. He's Patrick Stewart. He's done a lot of movies. I watched him die on stage once. It is. It's playing fucking Macbeth. It is so funny that Logan, they were just like, look, the stakes are this time, we're actually ending it for good.

Farewell. They're going to die and they're going to stay dead because let's face it. These actors are getting old. They don't want to keep playing these characters. And you're like, they brought back both of those guys multiple times. Patrick Stewart. They killed them at 85. That is old.

But his buns are the best. McKellen is 86 and he's getting on stage meeting with an old dude Gandalf one more time. And I'm like, bitch. Chill out. Sit down. Take a rest. Didn't he do a play in the West End where he like, uh, had like a serious leg and? Yeah, he banged himself up in somewhere because he's fucking old.

Right. I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm not saying like retire, bitch. Like, it's fun. Do what you want, but it's just, you know, manage your health, sir. I just like that, Ben, do you know, they're making a film called Lord of the Rings, the Hunt for Gallum. They find him in Lord of the Rings. You can watch those.

I have not heard about this. This is a movie that takes place in like a one inch margin between stories we've already told. I think it's nominally between the hobbits and the Lords of the Rings. But we understood exactly what Gallum was doing right before this and right after this. They tell you. Right? There's like a monologue that tells you. You'll never believe who's directing this movie.

Why, Andy Circus, of course, the actor who portrays the role of Gullum, which basically seems like it was the only way that they could get Peter Jackson to sign off and approve on another Middle Earth thing. That's sort of like with his aesthetic will be kind of borrowed or whatever. And that he'll give it like the stamp of approval versus war for the regime. Elijah Woods going to show up. Amazon series, he's been like, don't fucking associate that shit with me. Why wouldn't he want to be associated with the rings of power? Stick. One of the most electrifying fucking shows ever made.

His buddy Andy Circus, he's like, this is a nice opportunity for him. They start announcing, maybe some of the other actors return. You're like, huh, it has been over 25 years. Then recently, story comes back, Vigo Mortensen will not be returning. Right, even though Aragorn, I believe, is the one hunting for Ghalm, largely. Aragorn will be recast because Vigo Mortensen is too old to reprise the role. Which he is. Correct.

And then one week later they announced Ian McAllen is returning. The whole thing with Gandalf is it's like he is old. I get it. And so I think they just keep thinking they can get away. And they got away with it in Hobbit. The thing he admitted recently. But even that was 15 years ago. It was a while ago.

It was 10. About 10 years ago. Maybe a little more. He admitted recently, he was given some interview about Lord of the Rings. because I guess it's, well, no, it's not even an anniversary. It was the 25th anniversary. It was the 25th anniversary. No, it's the 25th anniversary this year of fellowship.

Right. Oh, yes. It will be 25 in December. Yeah. And he gave some interview where he was like, you know, the third scene I shot is saying goodbye to Frodo, like, because of the way those movies worked. And I was saying to Peter Jackson, like, what are my emotions? I don't know.

Like, I haven't done anything with this guy yet. Jackson was like, oh, you know, you feel sad. Like, you're saying goodbye to an old friend. He's like, okay. He's like, you watch that scene, you're seeing a blank face, man. I had nothing. It's good acting, though. It's good acting, though.

The Hobbit and Unexpected Journey came out December 2012. It's 12, 13, 14. The reason they're making the hunt for Gallum is you look up the fucking grosses of those movies that are universally ignored. No one talks about them like billion billion billion. There was a perfunctory billion dollars every year. I described those movies as ultimate jury duty cinema. We got to do it. We got to do it.

We got to do it. But yes, anyway. There's going to be this ungodly Ghalom movie in which some of the actors return, some of them don't, some of them are de-aged, some of them are recast. Like you're going to have like waxy, de-aged Orlando Bloom standing next to some new guy playing Aragorn.

Because Orlando Bloom, he'll put the ears on for anything. They were like, this movie's called Legolas takes a shit. He's like, put the ears on. I think he's had them surgically welded on. I think other movies have to shave them down. Exactly. Yeah, he has to take him off to do another episode of Easy. Interesting, we're talking about Peter Jackson, who, of course, took a job from

Lin-Ramsey to make The Lovely Bones. I mean, he didn't steal the job. Are you familiar with The Lovely Bones? Ben. I'm not. So The Lovely Bones is a best-selling novel, Ben, written in the early 2000s by Alice Seabald. That was a big hit. It is about a young girl who is murdered by a child sexual predator.

Jesus. And she, in the afterlife. It gets worse. Is trying to solve her own murder and communicate with her parents from the beyond. It was this wildly successful, beloved acclaimed book

that people were like, but how the fuck do you adapt this? This is so intense. And it was like her magnum opus dream project. It was so much sense for Ramsey. And I can do it. And the writer approved deep into development. Yeah.

Was pretty close to like getting it up and running. And then basically Peter Jackson snipes it from her. At the moment where Peter Jackson has so much fucking. power that if he's interested, the novelist goes like, sorry, I'm breaking our contract. Yeah. And Peter Jackson makes it and it's a disaster. It's one of the worst. It's the worst film he ever made. It's a horrible moment. So there's an insult to injury of, you know, my movie was

taken for me and then fucked up by doing the exact opposite of what I would have done. That sucks. Yeah. And I love Peter Jackson's films. He's done a lot of them. And I'm confident in saying that it is, that film is worse than the Three Hobbit movies. Yeah. I would watch those Three Hobbit movies any day of the week. I'm never fucking watching Lovely. bones again unless we do Peter Jackson which we'll do someday rat catcher yeah really good

it's a great movie she's made five great films in my opinion film premiered at the can't film festival and it was a sort of a buzzy hit was really praised I think it was kind of that like this is a Ken Loach Mike Lee kind of thing it's not

some sort of pre-packaged British shit that's like you know whatever this is a new voice Yeah. Yeah. She says, and she's addressing what I'm saying, a lot of film people have misconstrued this film of social realism. It's not really that. I tried to avoid those cliches. And I think she's right. It's more like you're in a boy's head kind of film. I say it many times across this miniseries. I will keep saying it. I think no one is better at depicting the inner life than Lynn Ramsey. I think that is like the great project of her work. Here's a great quote from Lynn Ramsey. I'm just going to read it verbatim. Quote. I wish I'd never mention Brasson. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I think that is. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm just a great quote. I'm just. I'm a great quote. I'm just I'm. I'm trying to make an homage or a pastiche like all those Tarantino copycats, those film boys who are just making wink. Mouschette, Ben, is, in my opinion, probably one of the 10 greatest films ever made. If I were handed a sight and sound ballot, you know, if sight and sound starts sucking

ass and they handed me a ballot, it would be in my 10, no question. And it's a little parallel to this, and that is about like a young French girl in a small country town who is just faced with indignity after indignity. It's a tough watch. And it's kind of her stoic suffering across this. But they are wildly different movies. Oh yeah, definitely. Wildly. Got it.

Film came out, made about a million dollars. Came out in Britain in 99, came out in America about a year later into October 2000. And we are going to do the box office game for October 13th, 2000 Griffin. Okay. So rat catchers number one, it opens to 15? Yeah, yeah, no. This film opened on two screens and made $10,000.

I'd love to know which screens, honestly. What, New York indie theater had it or whatever. Yeah, yeah. It's like an Angelica. Possibly. It was a long time ago. Number one at the box office, Griffin. I'm sorry, give me the date again.

October 13th, 2000. Number one of the box office is a holder of, it was last week's number one as well. It's a comedy. It's a hit comedy. It's a hit comedy in October 2000. 2000. So, you know, Bill Clinton's still president, 9-11, hasn't happened. long has it been held over? This is

its second week. It has made $58 million in two weeks. It's on its way to making 166 domestic and 330 worldwide. It's a huge hit. That's quite big. It spawned sequels. Okay. It's a movie star movie and it's getting a sequel this year.

Oh, oh, this is Meet the Parents. Stiller and De Niro are meeting the parents. That is really funny to consider these movies opening the same well, no, I guess this was its second weekend. Yeah. Focker in law, Ben. Yep. Yeah. Not a franchise I respond

to extensive. Ben, calm down. Don't get too excited on Mike. Number two at the box. You like meet the parents at the time? At the time, I loved it, and I rewatched it a couple years ago, and I think it is fine, and I think the sequels are bad. But at the time, I was

like, that's one of the finest movies ever made. There was such hype. It is solid. It is fully solid. Number two, the box is. You can milk anything. Yeah, could you milk me? He says that. It's talking about his nipples. That is pretty funny. It's kind of funny.

It is pretty funny. It's just one of those movies where I'm like, you haven't successfully convinced me that Ben Stiller would want to fucking talk about nipples at the dinner table. It's just like all the sort of like wild stuff that happens to meet the parents. Interesting. Every time I'm just kind of like, he wouldn't do this. But whatever, it doesn't matter. I guess it is kind of like a turning point in the mainstreaming of cringe comedy.

But the mainstream of cringe comedy is always predicated on someone being a little bit more embarrassing than their tell us. Intelligence would suggest they would be in a public setting. It's a year after American fight. It has this gross out streak and like two years after Mary, you know. Yes. And it's like, it's a very mild gross out streak compared to those movies. But like, you can see it. Like, where they're like, yeah, we need these comedy set pieces that pop, like, in some way.

But also he's not an awkward teenager. He is an adult man. He is. I think the funniest thing from what I remember in Meet the Parents is when he does the volleyball, he like jumps out of the pool and smashes the volleyball into a woman's face. and like her nose is like bleeding like crazy. Like that is kind of like good waspy, you know, like he went too far. Like that works for me as like big comedy.

Owen Wilson is great in Meet the Parents. And it is fascinating that they just completely change his characters for the sequel. Right. They get it in the first one. Well, no. In the first one, he is like preppy, annoying country club golden boy boyfriend. And then he shows up at the end of the second one and now he's a hippie. And the movie doesn't go like, man, this.

guy changed. The movie's like, you remember him, right? It's like a mass psychosis thing. And then the third one, he's like a co-lead. And it's all about how he's like, oh, natural. Right. Right. Anyway, Fawker-in-law. Number two, the box office is a sports film. Remember the Titans? That's right. Quite a big hit. Bois Yackins. Remember the Titans a pretty watchable movie. I want to say... Made 115 domestic Denzel Washington is the star. I want to say that was maybe Denzel's first $100 million movie. I remember that kind of being trumpet. Well, no, because a Pelican Brief.

Can't be true. Yeah. But let's see. Let's just see what Denzel's sort of like domestic takes were in the 90s. Because he was a very consistent, successful actor, but I feel like his movies tended to make. It was like a 70, 80, 50, 60. Yeah. But the Pelican Brief made around 100.

Okay. Yeah. And this was the second. Yeah. So it's just two. Yeah. And, of course, Pelican Brief had the, you know, the Julia Roberts bump. Right.

Number three at the box office. Now, this is why this is a crazy box office. We're going on. There's three new movies. Oh, wow. Okay. So number three is a... All opening below the holdover.

Yeah. So, oh, and I should say, Meet the Parents is 21 Mill. Remember the Titans 13. So those are holdovers. Number three, opening to $7.9 million to horror film. Forgotten. Forgotten. Only memorable for who the director is.

It's a first film from a director who I don't think ever worked as a director. again, but is a legendary cinematographer. Is a legendary cinematographer? Oh, it's the Janusz movie. And what's that movie called? And that movie is called, fuck. It is Winona Ryder and Ben Chaplin? You are correct.

It is the third in three movies in three years or two years, even, of like satanic horror movies. It's the last and least after stigmata and end of days in 99, which were bigger hits. What is this movie called? You'll never remember if you don't remember. It doesn't have the word exit in it. It doesn't. And it doesn't have the word angels in it? It doesn't. It doesn't. It simply doesn't.

Can you give me one of the words? Lost. The film is called ABC's Lost Thursday at 9 p.m. No, the film is called Lost Souls. There we go. Winona Ryder, Ben Chaplin. Philip Baker Hall. You think he plays like a really, like, funny sort of smart aleck?

Book detective? It's just like Philip Baker Hall. I'm like, oh, does he do a lot of bits? Or let me guess he's a stern fucking guy who works. He's like a cop or a politician. Miss him. Sarah Winter. Lice Codius.

John Hurt. Do you think John Hurt plays like a priest or something? He must play a fucking priest. Father Lero. Well,

Philbaker is also a priest. Okay. Number three, so Lost Souls, yeah, just, you know, a flopper. Yeah.

Yeah. Number fourth, do you think Spielberg, well, he must have watched it. I think Spielberg is like Sarianish. This was like

Winona's flop era and a girl interrupted. Coming out this fall, it was supposed to be the comeback where everyone said, like, but she's got a real big one. And then Girl Interrupted comes out, and Angelina Jolie so completely of shadows her.

That within two years, it's like shoplifting incident, Mr. Deeds. She's basically retired. And then she's in the wilderness until Stranger Things brought her back. Yep. And there she was. Number four at the box office is a film that is a comedy film. And it is opening to $5.4 million. Not great.

Which is poor. It's quite poor. It is a film. No, no, no. Everyone relax. Okay. Here's a little concept. Ben, calm.

You guys know Saturday Night Live, the television show? Uh-huh. What if a character from that from a series of recurring sketches got his own movie? The movie is Superstar? That is wrong. It's the Ladies Man?

It's the Ladies Man! So, Roxbury's 98, Superstars 99, Ladies Man is 2000. It's just so funny that SNL was like every year, we guarantee we will be releasing a movie you won't watch in theaters based on an SNL character.

I just find a fascinating that there's like... We're going to keep trying and failing. Wayne's World is. is so huge at the beginning of the decade, right? Yeah. Wayne's World 2, they rush out, huge drop off. They're like, we kind of fuck this up. Yeah, yeah.

Then there's the rush of the other people want to get in. Coneheads. It's Pat. And Stewart saves his family. Yeah. All three colossal bombs. Right. And then everyone's like, I guess the SNL sketch thing doesn't work.

Lord Michael's waits like five years and he's like... Even less, like three. One a year. One a year. I signed a new deal of Paramount. The new guys. You know, that's, I feel like that's his pivot is like, okay, we're not not going to do fucking cone hits.

Right. But we, why not have, right, like, it's launching cad for the new ones. Yeah.

The most fascinating thing about those movies to me, it's three films in three successive years. Yeah. And all three of them is,

are Will Ferrell as the second lead. Right, right. Farrell is the reliable glue guy. He did not identify that Farrell is the leading man. He didn't. And then,

you're like, it's a Catan movie with Farrell support. It's a Molly Shand movie with a Farrell support. It is a Tim Meadows movie were Farrell's the villain.

Yeah. Yeah. And then, have you seen the ladies man? I've never, I don't think I've seen it in full. Reginald Hudlin. Reggie Hudlin.

I actually like that film. Yeah, it always seemed to me like a pretty and offensive thing, but it was obviously a big flop. Yeah, I think it's interesting and I think it's got some like character to it. It does totally work. Farrell is, you might be surprised to hear, very funny. And it pops in it? And Tim Meadows, one of our favorite people.

Love Timmyth. Yeah. Super. The other's the one I struggle with. It's Bruce McCullough directed it. Have not seen since then. It's like very strange and sad. Yeah, yeah.

It's like, it's vague rat catcher vibes. Number five of the box office, opening to $5.3 million. It's going to go on to make $22. Okay. Which basically is its budget. And it's going to go on to get two Oscar nominations. So it's sort of like a soft success, but I think they were hoping for a bigger success. Is it an American film?

It's an American political drama. Sort of like a quasi-thriller kind of drama. It's not the contender, isn't it? It sure is. Rod Rory's the contender, starring Joan Allen and Gary Oldman and Jeff Bridges. In my memory, because it connected with Oscar voters, I thought that film opened later in the year and made more money. It was not. It was kind of like a mild flop.

Interesting. And honestly. And in early dream works. It got kind of like middling reviews. And it was just one of the, and Gary Oldham was obviously one of the big acting plays from it. That was the thing. get the nom. He got like a sag gnaw.

But there was this whole press on. And they were like, he didn't get it because he's right wing. Like, you know, he's being canceled for his beliefs. No, no, no, remind me. It was more intense than that. He like wrote an op-ed disowning the film that he produced and developed and then brought Rod Lurie onto because he thought the film was going to be more even-handed. Right.

And he is like a thunderous anti-abortion villain. Right. He's like the fucking speaker of the house or whatever he is in that. And he's like, this movie has an axe to grind. And it's like a witch hunt movie. Like, it's about him, like, dragging this woman over the coals for, uh, you know, a sex scandal and, like, but he basically was like, I want to divorce my work from this movie was getting precursor noms. And then it was a sag nom.

No. I take it back. He didn't. Did he get a globe nom? He got, uh, no, he did get a sag gnaw. Yeah, there we go. I distinctly remember that it was seen as a big surprise that. He didn't get that.

That Bridges got in over him because Bridges. Well, Bridges got every precursor no. He did? Okay. So they put both of them in at SAG? Yeah. Wow. And Bridges is, in my opinion, the reason to watch that movie, he's utterly incredible in it.

Everything else about that movie is stupid rock brain shit. It is a dumb fucking movie. Barack Obama has often cited. Dwayne Barack Obama. Yeah, right. What was the Joe? Oh, the Rock Obama. It was Dwayne Barack Obama.

Yeah. Yeah, sure. He says, like, that's what being president is like. He has said that's his favorite depiction of a president. movies. It's his favorite fictional president. And if you watch that movie, you're like, Obama kind of was doing a Jeff Bridges impression. You could see that movie hidden when Obama's in his mid-20s,

and that's sort of becoming the archetype in his mind of here's how I'd love to communicate to the public. Others in the top ten. The re-release of The Exorcist. That's just like your opinion, man. Sure. I felt like I had to do some joke like that. I thought that was good. Rug really tied the room together.

Obama, remember him? Funny. Number six of the box office is the version you've never seen version of The Exorcist. Oh yeah. Which was a big hit. Which big were you release. Number seven, doing great. Opening new this week is Robert Altman's Dr. T. and the women, which is kind of like,

is that the last before Gosford Park or is there one more? It has to be the last, right? Cookie's Fortune is before this. I think Cookie's Fortune is the year before, yes. So, Gosford Park is the year after. It felt like he had just officially run through the end of his good one. will from the player in shortcuts. I remember that's a movie that I've read defenses of, right?

Like, largely it's a bit forgotten. Yeah. But I remember at the time as a budding cinephile. Like, I sort of knew who Altman was. I probably hadn't seen much Altman yet. And had insane cast. It has this crazy cast. Yeah.

And I just remember the reviews were universally like, fucking, what's the matter with you? I'm here for you. I want to support you. Yeah. Why are you doing this to me? Doing this again. Like, there was a feeling of like, Altman,

can you truly not go five years without crashing out? Like it's like shortcuts, the player, you were back. You were back. What have you been up to? We'll grant you one prediporte. Not six. Fucking what. And, you know, now everyone tries to, basically, there's someone to reclaim any Altman movie. You know, like if you hunt around, there's someone who's like, you know, Kansas City is awesome.

My favorite movie of all time is a movie that many people have said is indefensible. Right. But that was, I just remember critics at the time. And then Gasser Park came out. Thank you. Yeah. I told you you could do that. We all like this one.

He is my favorite filmmaker of all time. I think it is silly to act like all of his movies are good. He's made bad movies. And your opinion can vary on which ones are bad, but it is impossible to like all of his films. He has made movies. I would say scientifically impossible. Like there's a lot of movies of his, I feel, like, where you're like, this just didn't work. You mixed a bunch of shit together.

You put it in the oven and he didn't make brownies. And I like the shit you mix together and I get why you wanted to do it. And I just don't think it's quite bad. And this will make for a really interesting chapter in the book, but God is this unpleasant to watch. It is silly to be like, yeah, no, five stars every time for Malman. That's a little silly. Yeah. Number eight is the-and-the-women in this economy?

Sorry, I had to make that joke. Go on. Please. I apologize. Number eight is the Sylvester Salone remake of Get Carter, which essentially is the end of his career as a screen actor for a while. Certainly on a studio level. Number nine is almost famous. which was, as we've talked about, I think, on that episode way back when, yeah, an underperformer.

Like, after Jerry McGuire, even though it was critically beloved and got, you know, awards and shit, was kind of a weird bomb. Yeah. They released it in, what, like, late August or early September? They were being dumb. It was a September release. They were being dumb. And number 10 is Best in Show, which is expanding. Yeah.

And has only made $3 million, but is going to make close to 20. So it's sort of like a quiet little indie sleeper hit. Yeah. Because Guffman, you know, didn't really break out. And Besson Show did. So we're going to wrap it up with Ratcatcha. But Lynn Ramsey for the next five weeks, enjoy that. You crazy fuckers, we got Morvern Caller next week with our mother-wramp-y's.

Emily Yoshita, the way you said it just might have been a little hard to parse. Emily Yoshita coming on to talk about Morvren Caller, one of her favorite defining movies of her life. People have asked why it had been so long since Yoshida on main feed, and the answer is, we've been waiting for this. We've had this in the hopper. Yeah, I mean, also, Emily lives in L.A. It's a little harder to just throw around anything. And yeah, we knew we were going to do this.

We were like, you're doing more. We knew we were going to do this. We had two long-ass miniseries in 2025. But yes, we've recorded the episodes of a tremendous amount of fun. It was so good to get back in the ring with Mama. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate review and subscribe. I'll remind you that in addition to our show coming out on Sundays,

every Thursday through the end of Oscar season, we have Critical Darlings on our feed. Critical Darlings! A little sibling show hosted by the great Richard Lawson, Alison Bullmore, and produced by our buddy Ben Frisch. Also over on our Patreon, we have bonus content, three episodes a month, as well as an ad-free feed available. We're doing the Oz commentaries,

Mm-hmm. Lynn Bramsey or one of her favorite films. I wonder if she would love our episode in which we talk about what to get for lunch. That's patreon.com slash blank check. Thank you all. And as always, Blank Check will return in episode on Morvren Kala.

Do you see what I did that? Do you want to hear the PGA nominee? Please. Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen,

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