Blank Check with Griffin & David - Return of the Podcast

Episode Date: December 17, 2015

Griffin and David return with an episode examining the 1983 conclusion to the ‘second’ trilogy Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. Together, they discuss George Lucas’ former marriage, Princess Leia’s golden bikini, those lovable Ewoks, telling a dying Yoda to just get on with it already and more!

🎵 There is another podcast. There's another podcast that we're doing. Never gonna stop. I'm Griffin. I'm David. Welcome to Griffin and David percent return of the podcast. We're back after three days.

After three days. You didn't think we'd come back, but we returned. We returned, hardcore. Much like Return of the Jedi, you know, the dangling threads at the end of Empire Strikes Back are like, don't worry, we're doing another movie. It's true. And we did the same thing with Empire.

We were like, don't, with Podcast Strikes Back. We were like, don't worry, we're coming back. We're going to come back. We're going to come back. We'll return. And we'll be here soon. Sooner rather than later. A little table dressing, because I think We're going to come back. We're going to come back. We'll return. And we'll be here soon. Sooner rather than later. A little table dressing because I think this is going to.

We're sitting at a dress table right now. It's got a red Christmas tarp. Yeah. Thank you, Ben. Yep. Oh. Oh. Just making it a little seasonal for y'all.

There's Ben. That's me. A.K.A. How are we going to do them all? Santa Haas. Ooh. That's not even. I love that.

A pun. Santa Haas. love that Santa Haas Oh I guess it's kind of a hot kid Santa Claus He's put a Christmas tarp over the table He's looking festive as shit I think he's trimmed his facial hair I was going to say cleanly shaved

But it's not cleanly shaved I got a neck beard going I'm wearing one of those fun hats With the mistletoes dangling in front of me. Yeah, so everyone has to kiss Ben. We both tongue kissed Ben when we walked in. Oh, yeah. He's a tender kisser, and he respected our boundaries, but still it felt like a little bit of an abuse of power to even put us in that situation.

No, I mean, he's kind of our boss. He is our boss. He's the Haas. He's the Haas boss. He's the Santa Haas Klaus boss. All right. A.K.a. Perdue or Ben. A.K.a. Producer Ben. A.K.a. The Benducer. A.K.a. The Poet Laureate. A.K. He's the Haas. He's the Haas boss. He's the Santa Haas Klaus boss. All right. A.K. Perdue Ben.

A.K. Producer Ben. A.K. The Benducer. A.K. The Poet Laureate. A.K. Hello Fanel.

A.K. The Peeper. You give me a kiss. A.K. Mr. Positive. All right. Return of the podcast. Return of the podcast. We're going to discuss Star Wars Episode VI.

Yeah, and this is the table dressing I just want to do. This episode should be coming out December 17th. Thursday. Ben's so amused. December 17th. Right? I don't know why he's so amused. December 17th, right? I don't know why he's so amused. Why are you so amused? You always get so mad

because you just want to get into it. Come on! It's like, all right, come on. It's like 20 minutes in, we're still talking about I have been complimenting for yelling about this stuff by fans of the podcast.

Yeah, people like you yelling and people like me talking about sex stuff. All right. Thursday, December 17th. Yeah. This should be dropping. That is the day that J.J. Abrams.

First day. Star Wars. Episode 7, The Force Awakens comes out. Although it doesn't seem to be using the episode 7 in the advertising. No, I'm hoping they do in the crawl. Probably. Because I like episodes of podcasts. Yes, me too.

Like this one. It's a podcast. It's a podcast. It's a podcast. To quote the Fighting in the War Room. You know, I like to think of movies as the first podcast. Carry on. Anyway, you're catching us on the last day that you and I will have not seen that film. Yeah.

Isn't that crazy? I just want to capture that moment. This is us looking at what was up until now, chronologically, the last Star Wars movie on the final day before we know what happens next. For years, this was the last Star Wars movie. This was the, they wrapped it all up. His weird roundabout order. This was released in 1983.

George says it wasn't finished. He tinkered. He re-released it in 1997, and then episodes one, two, and three came out. For anyone who's jumping in on this episode first, we only knew that Phantom Menace existed. We watched that one

and then one discovered the other movies in chronological order. Yeah. Okay? It's this thing that we did. Just, you know, this is a great

entry point episode for new fans and I want to set the table properly. Go on. Have you dressed the table properly? Yeah, Star Wars Episode VI. Return of the Jedi. Return of the Jedi.

Yeah. This is the movie that wraps it all up. We have six episodes. Until we see a different movie tomorrow. Yeah, but... I mean, like, in terms of the arc that starts with Phantom Menace, the Anakin Skywalker story, it concludes here. Or maybe it doesn't. We don't know.

It does. I think it does. This is definitely, I mean, this. I don't think there's going to be any Anakin Skywalker in the next one. I don't know. All right, all right. This is the sequel trilogy, right? Yeah. in the next one. I don't know. All right, all right. This is the sequel trilogy, right? The second Star Wars trilogy.

At the very least, this trilogy is complete. There's a clean story being told in these three films. There's a different clean story being told in the OT, the Phantom Menace trilogy. I'm just saying,

how dare you come out and say the story's done? It's done. The Anakin story concludes in Return of the Jedi. In 14 hours we're going to see a new movie. Anakin's story

and George Lucas' story concludes here. Yes, this concludes George Lucas' story. I will give you that. Yeah. But he says in interviews like, oh, it's like

the six movies are really this big. It's Anakin. It's like the rise and fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Yeah, but now he's got kids. All right.

Anyway, carrying on. Kids are going to be in the new movie. They're not kids anymore. They're grown-ups. I know. They, but now he's got kids. All right. Anyway, carrying on. Kids are going to be in the new movie. They're not kids anymore. They're grown-ups. I know. They're grown-ups in these movies. Yeah, but they're going to be more grown-up. Yeah.

Should we read that Abrams quote? Yeah. I mean, let's not, you know, we don't want to speculate too much about what's going to happen this week because we're so close to it. Yeah, we're here to talk about Ratoin of the Jedi,

but go ahead, Ben. Yeah, I've been having a lot of panic attacks this week. Let me get the opening problem. Just wrapping my head around the entire state of the Star Wars universe, between the things that we're re-watching and analyzing and the things that we're about to see. I'm pumped up. I am too.

It's just a weird time. Kind of weird you're losing sleep over it. I'm losing sleep. All right, so Abrams in a Rolling Stone interview was quoted with saying, I want to make something worth people's time and not a commercial for toys. That's a burn. Ouch. That's a Bernie Sanders right up on George's grill.

Yep. Return of the Jedi, the completion of George Lucas's original story. Not directed by George Lucas. Not. Directed by Richard Marquand. Marquand? Yes. Marquand?

Marquand, I think. Marquand. Yeah. Q-U-A-N-D. The director of Jagged Edge. Right. That was made after Return of the Jedi. Yeah.

Up until Return of the Jedi, he had mostly done documentaries. Yeah. Kind of an odd choice. I think he'd done two scripted films before. And from what I've read, he was not that involved in the visual effects side of this movie. Kind of seems like it. Apparently Lucas did a lot of second unit directing. He did a lot of visual effects helping.

Yeah. There's this famous quote, which is like, Marquand said, is it Marquand or Marquand? Who knows? Said it's like trying to direct King Lear with Shakespeare in the next room, basically. Yeah, I think he kind of half-directed this movie. Yeah, I mean, George Lucas said he was really good with the actors, which is actually kind of a compliment, I think, from George. I think it's George saying, like, I'm not the best with the actors.

It's a slight admittance of that. I will say I think the performances in this one are not as good as they were in Empire. Well, the script's a lot weaker. We're going to say, this movie's unfortunately in my opinion, Empire's a little better than New Hope, and New Hope's a little better than the prequel trilogy.

By a little better, I mean a lot better. But I would say this one's a little worse. A little worse. I really enjoyed it. This is what we really have to talk about today, okay? Star Wars A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are pretty universally revered films, you know? Two thumbs up. The people who don't like them are sort of making a stand. Like, it's a political statement to not like those movies.

Yeah, I guess so. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, sure. Obviously, no. It's contrary. It's contrary to mass opinion. Right. But people really like them.

And people like them on a deep reading level. Little children are, you know. But Return of the Jedi. Has always been viewed as like. A little bit inferior. The black sheep of the family. Well, I think it's. I think you can see like people say.

See maybe seeds that are planted here. That come to fruit in the prequel. I agree. I think you mean the original trilogy. Yes, thank you. You definitely see as the film, this movie came out in 1983. 1983. Phantom Menace came out in 1999.

And you see the things, the machinations starting to come into place. A little bit. A little bit. And it's a little rough around the edges. I think this movie gets too much of a bad shake. I would agree with that. Now, there are a couple factors at play here.

One, it's very hard for me to, with this film in particular, be objective and just view it. Because this is exactly the kind of movie I loved the most as a kid. I was going to say the same thing. This was my favorite Star Wars movie when I was a kid. I hate bits and like yada, yada, yada. That is true.

This was absolutely my ticking the fucking bell. Because you were on the mark on that one. There's a bell in the room. Christmas bells. Santa Claus. No, this is in the room. Christmas bells. Santa Claus. No, this is what I was going to say. Like, bits aside, yes, I just remember that I watched this movie as a child,

and it was my favorite of the three. But there's a bigger point I'm trying to get at here, which is the things that differentiate this film from the previous two, if you could bottle them, are also the elements I most look for in a film in general as a child. Yeah, but...

It's my type of movie that I grew up feeling the most strongly about. I fucking love Muppets, as you know. Yeah, it's very Muppety, this movie. It's very Muppety. Very Muppety. Even just the tone of it, it's got a different tone

than the other two, I would argue. You know, it's a lot more sort of like smooth and rounded. Yeah. I really liked Conclusions. Right. It's a movie that wraps everything up pretty nicely. It's the only one that- A little too nicely.

A little too nicely, but it's- I've got a lot to talk about. The only one of the three that ends. Yeah. But even just- Star Wars ends. New Hope three that ends. Yeah. But even just... Star Wars ends. A New Hope. That ends.

Yeah. That has a definitive ending. It's the only one of the three that... I'm not going to say the only one of the three, but just aesthetically, tonally, the vibe of the movie. It's like the types of movies that I used to re-watch on video over and over again as a child. Weird British sci-fi fantasy things. Like Krull?

Not even Krull I'm thinking about. There were just a lot of movies. You just said British sci-fi, so I was... Yeah, I just remember seeing, and I couldn't even name all these, but just a lot of things that used to replay on TV over and over again

on nascent cable channels that only had six movies in rotation. So I'd watch the same thing over and over again. mean you know much like uh dark crystal and labyrinth neither of which i think are great movies movies i admire a lot i would say dark crystal is pretty great labyrinth is okay i like both of them yeah very very deeply yeah i'm saying i don't think under like intense scrutiny all right the films hold up right But that type of world that is created in that movie and the vibe and everything is what I would Return of the Jedi.

Return of the Jedi has that feeling. Yeah, that's fair. Let's talk about it. Let's get into it. The first 30 minutes of it I think are perfect. They're pretty great. I wouldn't call them perfect because there's some business in them that I don't know. They're my favorite 30 minutes of any Star Wars movie.

I don't know if I agree with that. We could go into it, but that's what I would say. I'm going to read the opening crawl. Episode 6, Return of the Jedi. Luke Skywalker has returned to his home planet of Tatooine in an attempt to rescue his friend Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt.

Already we're answering questions. Who's the Jedi returning? Luke, done. True. We're not going to tease this out for you. Yeah, it's the return. I like it. Yeah, so is it... I guess it's just singular. There's no other Jedi in this movie.

Well, I think the idea is that he also represents the idea of a Jedi. The idea of a Jedi has been dead for so long. He is the Jedi who's returning, but with him he also brings the promise of a new Jedi order, perhaps. And we know Han Solo, that was the biggest dangling threat. He got captured by Jabba the Hutt.

Luke's trying to rescue him. And we like that guy. Wild gangster. We like what? We like Han Solo. He's a good character. He's a good character. Ben, agreed?

I love me some Han Solo. All right, I'm moving to the second paragraph. Little does Luke know that the Galactic Empire has secretly begun construction on a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star. Oh, interesting. I can't even imagine what this thing would look like. Something that's more akin to, but more. I see where you're going. Okay.

When completed, this ultimate weapon will spell certain doom for the small band of rebels struggling to restore freedom to the galaxy. Ah, geez, a game changer. An entirely different type of weapon. I'm so excited to see what this thing is. I see the bit that you are doing. Yeah, so it's just another Death Star. Oh, okay. It's just, it's like a half-built one.

It looks kind of cool. It's half-built, but it just looks like they're going to make it look the same as the first one. I mean, it's just, it's Death Star shaped. Okay, but does it have a... It looks a little different. Does it have a cool new name? Death Star.

Death Star 2. Wow. I mean, yeah. It's just... It's got this, like, sort of... It looks like scaffolding or, like, crenellation. You know? I thought that was just it being unfinished.

And it is. Yeah. I know. I just... It's kind of cool. I just would love to see... It's a Death Star. I would love to see a fucking Mad TV sketch pitch here.

I'd love to see the business meeting where they're like, okay guys, we all agree. I'm actually going to cut this off right away. This is the worst. We need a new weapon. Call me crazy. Bad joke pitch. What if we just did

the Death Star again? Death Star 2. I think it's it's interesting because i want to talk about the death star thank you ben no it's not funny thank you ben uh i i think it's supposed to be bigger sure than the previous death star i looked this up on wikipedia it is listed as being uh 30 kilometers bigger on either side okay which is big. But it looks smaller because it's next to this moon that's like way bigger than it. Location, location, location. That's what you're saying.

Well, because in the first movie- If you're going to make yourself look bigger, don't sit next to a moon. In Star Wars A New Hope, when they see it, they think it's a moon. Right. And then in this movie, it is like a tiny satellite of a moon and it always weirded me out no i think that's a little bit of kindness that they don't want people to mistake

it for a moon anymore they go next to a moon and they're like we're still big we just want you to know we want to have your lines cleared this is not a moon we're a killer ship have fun sorry um so there's a new there's a new Death Star Death Star 2 we don't it's literally called the Death Star 2

and what I I do like so and I wrote a piece about Admiral Piette this week because he's my favorite character

big fan of Admiral Piette plug yeah yeah on theatlantic.com and uh I like that in this it's almost pretty much like

the first scene in the movie is it the first scene in the movie. Is it the first scene in the movie? He comes in real fast. Is Vader arriving on this Death Star and literally being like, come on, guys, like tapping his watch.

Yeah, it's the first scene. Yeah, it's the classic. What's the deal? You're behind schedule. Like, you know, you almost want to be talking to like a union crew. Like, it's almost, it's beginning to get that sense of George Lucas

like griping at, you know, I mean, the Trade George Lucas griping at the Trade Federation. Systems. Griping at his tax bill. This where he's like, they don't build quickly enough. They don't obey. And so Darth Vader arrives. And the guy's like, I'm trying. And Darth Vader's like, well, the Emperor's going to show up.

And that's all the guy needs to hear. He's like, don't worry about it. We'll redouble our efforts. I don't know. It's a great scene. I like the fear the Emperor brings. And I just love how lame everyone else in the Empire is. Everyone else in the Empire is just a sad bureaucrat trying to obey the commands of an evil space wizard.

And Admiral Piet's obviously the best one of them all. And he's on the big Star Destroyer. You are pitching a Galactic Empire workplace comedy to TV Land tomorrow night. I have wanted that to exist for so long. Absolutely. I think it would be so funny. But whatever. I don't know. Life in the Empire.

It doesn't even have to be like a life in any kind of empire type thing. No, but it should be this specifically. It should be canon. Did you finish reading The Crawl? Yeah, I finished reading The Crawl. Okay. We're done with The Crawl.

Under the ship, the classic shot, we get on the ship. It's Darth Vader tapping his watch. Yeah. Okay. And then we cut. We hard cut, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To Tatooine.

To Tatooine. Yeah. Once again. This movie has a weird plot structure where it's like, yeah, you got that little intro. Yeah. Once again. This movie has a weird plot structure where it's like yeah you got that little intro. Yeah. And then it's like this block on Tatooine. And then it's the final set piece basically. Yes. Which is like takes

like a day or two. Yeah. Like I guess in like movie time. Yeah. But I mean it's basically just like after Tatooine it's just like alright we gotta blow up the Death Star and kill the Emperor and do all the stuff. Like let's do it. And then that's it I would argue despite the fact that we spent most of this

episode defending this movie that is not terrifically plotted no it's not it was written by Kasdan and Lucas and Lucas has co-writing credit on this he's back he's back story by Lucas screenplay by Lucas and Kasdan so um yeah

I mean like it, it's just trying to wrap everything up in a big bow. Yes. But also spend a lot of time with teddy bear people. But we'll get to that. We'll get to that. So Tatooine. C3PO, R2D2. Our main guys. It's like, oh!

You know, here they are. Just like the first Just Like a New Hope. I like that. We're seeing once again things from their eyes. They don't know what's going on right it's really i agree with you it's really good and i like that there are all these gaps we're starting at a point where we don't really understand what's happened since the last time we saw our characters yeah we know from the crawl the main things that are trying to be accomplished we know java has han solo that's about it luke is a jedi now you know but other than that we don't know c3p3PO and R2-D2 roll in, knock on the door, there's like a robot eyeball

bouncer. Yeah. Remember, we only have about an hour. They get through. You're seeing once again a collection of great Star Wars aliens in the background. That's what I like. When they get there, it's like a scary atmosphere. There's all these weird aliens. It's like a huge club in the middle of the desert. You just see a wall

and you don't see windows. It's like a huge club in the middle of the desert. You just see a wall. You don't see windows. It's like a creepy sex S&M dungeon run by a giant slug. That's why I wanted to talk about the eyeball bouncer. Yeah, the eyeball bouncer is cool. It's like a speakeasy thing. You're like, what's going on behind here? These sort of like boars with axes. Like these medieval boars.

So they're like the guards. Yes. You've got Bib Fortuna. Bib Fortuna. Who's sort of the majordomo. Yes. You've got Bib Fortuna who's sort of the major domo. Yeah. Who we've seen in Pants and Men

He's in Jabba's box. Yeah for like half a second. Right. Yeah. Much bigger part in this one. Yeah.

I like is Bib Fortuna male or female or is that just sort of not I think male. He kind of has a male face.

I think he was played by a male actor but he's got these sort of long fingernails. He's sort of I like him. He's sort of androgynous. No need

for us to be so binary. Bib Fortuna is Bib Fortuna. And I like, I just like, you're seeing the procedures of Jabba's palace, right? Like you're greeted by guards, you're greeted by Bib Fortuna, and then you're like led into this like

stinky den that's got like a band, it's's got weird sex slaves. Hey, not just any band. Okay. Talk about Max Rebo bands. Yeah, the Max Rebo band. Let's just be on the level here. Ben's favorite band of all time.

Ben is currently wearing a leather Max Rebo band jacket with patches on the back from every separate tour date he's gone to. Ben's sort of a fish head for Rebo. He follows them on the road. He collects CD-Rs of their live shows. Some of the Max Rebo band members, you've got Max Rebo's the sort of like little kind of furry bug guy who's like, do that, like that. Is that him?

I believe Max Rebo is the blue elephant. No, that's Cy Snoodles. Then Max Rebo. Oh, no, maybe you're right. Maybe that is Max Rebo. Let's see. Now I have to look it up. Okay, now I got it. Max Rebo's the elephant guy. Nailed it. Okay. So who's Si Snoodles again? Is he like the one who's playing like a clarinet? Si Snoodles is this dude. No, that's a lady. Alright, okay. So she's Si Snoodles. With the puckered asshole. With the mouth. She's a bummer. She is that's a lady. Yep. That's right. With the puckered asshole. With the mouth. She's a bummer.

She's a huge bummer. She's a bummer. Because there's this huge CGI sequence where she sings and her mouth kind of looks at the camera almost. Yeah, she's like the Sammy Hagar of this band. She's the one that took them down from where they were. Yeah, she's like Fergie.

Yes. Yeah, she's a bummer. Yes. Yeah, like, yeah. She's a bummer. I don't like her. I don't like their song. The only thing I really like about the Max Rebo band is Max Rebo, I guess. The elephant. Max Rebo. He has this really cool, like, piano that encircles him. Yeah. Droopy McCool. Oof. What a name. What a name.

Which one's Droopy McCool? Droopy McCool is like white. Like, white is a sheet of paper, and he looks like those... Oh, he's one of the brain guys. He looks like a shrimp. No, he's got like... He looks like a pillowcase. He looks like a pillowcase.

He looks like a pillowcase. I'm sure you're right. He does. But this is a thing to immediately talk about, and we're going to have to talk about this more on this episode, okay? Okay. And you're going to hate where this is going. Yeah, Drew B. McCool plays the thing and he looks like a pillowcase.

Oh, that's Drew B. McCool. Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah, all right, sure. Yeah, he's the one who plays the weird clarinet. He's the one who plays the weird clarinet and he looks like a pillowcase. Okay. I don't know what the little furry guy's name is. But it's established Ben what are you laughing at

Droopy's actual birth name is a series of unpronounceable flute like whistles great that's cool so he's like Donald Duck Dunn in the blues bars they had to give him a fun name so that people could remember him oh my god what are you getting to what are you getting to? In the Blues Bros. They had to give him a fun name so that people could remember him. Oh my God. What are you getting to?

What are you... This film... Oh my God. I'm going to kill everyone in this room. You're going to be even angrier when I start saying what I'm going to say. So I'm trying to figure out the way to make you least mad. George Lucas fucked with this movie a lot in the 90s. Yeah. A lot.

Yeah. The most of the three. Yeah. We know that George considers that the films weren a lot in the 90s. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. The most of the three. Yeah. We know that George considers that the films weren't done until the 90s, that the special editions are the definitive versions. They're always what he intended. Well, no, but then he messed with them more. He's never going to stop messing with them.

The 97 version is not, because he kept adding to it. Yes. And he kept messing with it. Well, the point is no work is ever finished, and as an artist, you just have to step away. Yeah. This movie's got a just have to step away. Yeah. This movie's got a lot of bullshit in it. Yeah. I mean, it's got some bullshit for sure.

I would argue more than the other two in this trilogy. The other movies don't have any bullshit in them. A New Hope has the Jabba scene. Oh, yeah. Right. Which is bullshit. He added that too. Yeah.

That's awful. That's what I'm talking about in terms of bullshit. No, yeah, sure. I'm talking about the modern. This movie. No, but even the 1983 version of this movie has a lot of bullshit. I'm talking just about the modern bullshit. That's the spotlight I want to put on right now.

Okay. Okay? All right. In terms of the modern updated bullshit, this has the most of it. Yeah, okay. There are less story changes. What's your point? Well, this fucking musical performance in the 1983 version was entirely different.

Yeah, right, because it was all puppets. I have seen it, but it's been a long time. And the song is different. Right. And the scene is structured differently. Right. And they add Cy Seudels, who was in the original version. They make all CGI now.

And then they add this new guy who looks like a fucking termite. Yeah, yeah. Who looks like a whammy. He's like a furry whammy from Press Your Luck. Yeah, he looks like a whammy. And he moves like Joe Cocker. Okay. And they have this dumb shot where he's singing and he goes like, and his mouth

swallows the camera. As if he's aware that he's in a movie. Sure. In a film that otherwise throughout this trilogy has been so cinematically classical, he's like fucking with you like you're watching Honey, I Shrunk the Audience and is doing like calm response stuff. But he's not doing it.

It's like whatever tech person he hired to do it. You know what I mean? Like, that's the problem. No, I'm saying this character. Oh, okay, fine. All right, get to your point. What's your point? I don't get what your point is.

Apart from that this scene is annoying, which it is. Oh, my God, what? You're going to get so angry. What? So that happens. A lot of these scenes the ships are redone you know

there are various creatures in the back that are clearly CGI the Sarlacc pit which we're getting to like more than the other two films it's always embellishing

embellishing on everything always but all these little things you know there's one establishing shot outside Jabba's palace where you just see like a frog and eats a thing

and it's like you don't fucking need it. Okay. What? I'm gonna murder you. We don't have much time. George Lucas was married to Marshall Lucas. No, I don't care about this. No, you do. This is important. I have to get to this. What? Just do it quickly.

I want to talk about this movie. She edited all three original films. She did win an Oscar I confirm that She won an Oscar for the first one For the first one Yeah yeah yeah They got divorced

Shortly after Return of the Jedi Sure Married the man who installed The stained glass window At Skywalker Ranch Yeah for people who didn't listen To our Revenge of the Sith live episode That was discussed there

George Lucas had to walk Under that archway every single day When he went into work Made by the man who now is... Maybe they're on good terms though. Do we know? No. He refuses to acknowledge her ever. Has had her wiped from

all the documentaries and books about it. She's persona non grata. Despite the fact that she not only edited all three films but helped develop the scripts with him. Was a big creative consult for him. She's no longer talked about, period. Yeah.

That's interesting. She has been stricken from the record. Is she alive? She is alive. Okay. She kind of is a recluse. She just kind of takes it easy. She produced a short film in 1996.

Her last editing job ever was Return of the Jedi. No one really knows what she's up to. She married the stained glass window guy for 10 years. They divorce. No one really knows what she's up to. She married the stained glass window guy for 10 years. They divorced. No one really knows what she's up to. Okay, go on. She got $50 million in divorce. So she's fine.

She's fine. What's your point? Like, she was the one who was kind of keep reining him in? Is that your point? Well, yes. And I think I've hit that note hard enough throughout the series. Yeah. But this is a huge thing, okay?

George Lucas, I do think we have learned throughout watching all these movies, has really bad judgment. Uh-huh. Perhaps good instincts and bad judgment. Uh-huh. And so he looked at these original films, had the wrong idea of why people liked them, why they worked, and then reverse engineered. I don't agree. I think that he just has ILM and just wanted to mess with them. He just likes it.

It just makes him happy. I think Call Me Call Me. Oh my God. I also think when you hear him talk about it, he defends movies in ways that don't make any sense. And he essentially goes, if you don't like it, it's because you don't understand. But you know what? I'm going to speak up for George Lucas here. Yeah.

He made some fucking movies that are great and we constantly yell at him all the time about the things he did the things he changed the things we don't like the new movies he made

and he's just he's never giving an interview when people aren't like well what about this? What about this? And he has to come up with some you know he makes what he does what he wants to do.

I agree and I have been you know as bad as anyone at this in terms of personally yelling at his face twice on two consecutive episodes. Let's just fucking get over it. That's not the point I'm trying to get at. What are you trying to get at? Oh, my God. He thought the films weren't finished because he has these effects

that he couldn't realize in his head what he wanted it to look like and all this bullshit in the background and whatever. And so the movies are done, 83. She divorces him. He goes and does other stuff for a while. He comes back in the 90s and goes i'm making more star wars i'm making the first three and i'm releasing special editions and they come out and people go oh all these changes are kind of weird i mean i remember in originally people were kind of like all right you know like especially 97 they took a little while to sink in why do i think they sunk in

because because he made the prequels and nobody liked them. Bigger thing. Alright. He then never let people see the original movies ever again. Well, right. Of course, yes. The only hit on him is he should just let people see the original movies. Every time someone has done that, has gone back and revised their own work... We're just turning into, like, what is this? A nerd podcast?

No, this is huge! David, this is huge! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go on. They've allowed the original version to exist, and he's been steadfast about it. And when the Library of Congress asked to induct Star Wars in, he gave them a 35mm print of the 1997 special edition. That's such devastating news. Guys, I'm on the record.

I don't give a shit about any of this. Finish your point. David, do you know what I figured out while watching the movie last night? What did you figure out? While watching through to the end credits. What? do you know what I figured out while watching the movie last night? What did you figure out? While watching through to the end credits. What? Do you know that with these new special editions, the only versions that he allows to be legally

released, and the only time he's released the original versions in any form in the last 15 years, was as special features not classified as their own movies on a DVD that was available. He did editions, special editions, where they were bonus discs, special features, hidden under the menu, only available for three months. I'm going to kill you.

In the end credits, it reveals that not only do the special editions have different, you know, the crew to remaster and the new effects team, but a different editor. Okay. Okay. Okay. This is your big reveal? That by establishing a different cut of the film... All right. Yes, yes. He hates his wife, his ex-wife.

Marshall Lucas is never, ever entitled to make any residuals. She no longer has points in the film. Okay. You think it's all just a big revenge fuck against Marsha Lucas? I think he genuinely thinks it looks better with these stupid butthole creatures. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

But I also think a man who is not driven so mad by the failure he feels to make that relationship work would not say, hey, no one can ever watch those movies ever again. They don't exist. Pretend that he doesn't even have the elements to restore them. Has anyone even ever done that before? No.

That's such a weird thing to do. I want to go on the record. I don't support this theory. I don't care about it at all. Marsha Lucas is... Like, Godfather 3 is bad. Yeah. Somebody should fix that movie.

Let's just start fixing all the movies. No, I mean, I agree that you Somebody should fix that movie. Let's just start fixing all the movies. No, I mean, I agree that you can't fix the movie. Just let them stand. Let's update Casablanca and have cell phones. I hate nerds, and they're always complaining. And it's like, dude, do this, whatever. It's okay.

I'm not angry at George. I empathize with him. I understand this is a wounded man. We have to talk about this movie. I'm going to nail you to a cross. It's crazy. It's awesome. Ben cut all of that out. I have to talk about this movie. I'm going to nail you to a cross. It's crazy. It's awesome. Ben cut all of that out. I swear to God. It's the scummiest space we've ever seen.

I actually might cut some of that out. You're cutting none of that out. We thought the cantina was bad. Rebo. I'm so mad at Griffin right now. It's crazy how mad I am at Griffin. This is important. I'm so mad about this. This is what people tune in to hear about.

I just wanted to talk about stupid Return of the Jabba. We're talking about it! I'm here trying to talk about Return of the Jabba, and you're talking about not liking me. How is that productive? Guys, what did you think of Leia's outfit? Too fast. We can't go there yet. Jabba's palace is awful. It's filled with

scum. It's like the cantina times a billion. We knew that Jabba was in charge of tattooing that the Hutts ran it. But we didn't know that they were like actual monsters. I'm not talking physical appearance. I'm talking in behavior. Right? So he's this dude

sitting on a throne drinking grape juice. He's got a little creature laughing at him all the time. And a bunch of women chained up and he's making them dance all the time. And he drops them into pits and kills them. Why are you in such a bad mood now? Because I just hate that Marsha Lucas shit so much. It's so important.

I really genuinely hate it. It's not. Yes, it is. Because I think you can just invent anything. Like, you know, it's like, I don't like reading into that stuff. I hate it. I think it's super important. I think films should stand on their own merits.

That's it. I don't care about, like, behind the scenes too much. You know, it's interesting. I like hearing about I think films should stand on their own merits. That's it. I don't care about behind the scenes too much. It's interesting. We are not just a podcast. I love You Must Remember This. We're not just a podcast talking about these movies. We're trying to make sense of the entire thing around these films. I think this is actually a good time.

Let's cut to a commercial break. Are we going to have commercial breaks now? Yeah. This episode is the start of this? Yeah. This might be the last episode we ever do. Okay. Let's play the commercial break. Wait. Did we really take a commercial now? Yeah. This episode is the start of this? Yeah. This might be the last episode we ever do. Okay, let's play the commercial break. Wait, did we really take a commercial break?

Maybe. Wow. Jabba is dropping ladies down pits. This guy has no respect for anyone else. The one thing he loves is that framed Carbonite

Han Solo on the wall. I actually like that a lot. Me too. It's not mentioned or it's vaguely mentioned but like in Empire Boba Fett just wants to bring like it's the Carbonite's just a transportation

method. Right. Like I don't think it's supposed to be like a trope. Jabba requests yes like a but I think I like the idea of Jabba just seeing that and being like ha that's great just put that right over there. I like the way that looks I like the feng shui of that. Before I got so furious with you

for fucking bringing up all that shit and talking for 20 minutes about stupid CGI nonsense. It's so important it's going to all make sense in a bigger picture kind of way when you listen to this entire series. I'm going to kill him. I do just, yes.

Like we were saying, C-3PO and R2-D2 arrive. We're seeing it from their eyes. And I like that we just, everything unfolds very nicely. We get the sin and iniquity of Jabba. We get his personality very quickly. I love him.

He's a big puppet. Jabba rules. He's cool. I mean, he sucks, but he rules. Yeah. He's not great. We don't like him morally. We love him as viewers.

But, you know, just like the, there's something about the way he presides over things that is original, I think. Yeah. Like, he's the only other, well, the Emperor's a pretty good villain, but he's the best villain that's not Darth Vader, I would say. Well, this is my favorite thing about this chunk of the movie. I mean, if you look at him in the six movies, he's bizarre. Like, he's in Phantom Menace as a race guy,

and then he's kind of, like, nice to Han Solo in A New Hope, and he's like, hey, don't worry about it. And then in this one, he's, like, the nastiest thing that ever New Hope and he's like hey don't worry about it and then in this one he's like the nastiest thing that ever existed. The grossest creature of all time in every sense. So like I think he probably should not be in the movies other than this movie. I agree it almost feels like this should be the first time you see him. Yeah because he's been

talked about and in Empire Han Solo's like I gotta deal with this. Yes. But um like yeah he's kind of blunted by those earlier appearances but whatever whatever whatever it's very cool in this one uh he's great in this c3p and rtg2 walk in see him everything's weird they play a message yeah it's like a reversal of a new hope it's now luke instead of leia and he just he just is like these guys are gifts enjoy them yeah yeah it's pretty

funny and and job is like i don't okay send them to them. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty funny. And Jabba's like, okay, send them to the back room. I don't think Jabba even, well, Jabba's just amused because C-3PO didn't know what was going to happen and C-3PO's just like bleeping about it. Yeah. Yeah. All this stuff is cool. Like there's that weird robot who's like the sort of slave master who tells. And they're like branding.

They're like hot iron branding other robots and they all seem really depressed. Which actually, I love the scene with the little guy who's getting his feet toasted or whatever but also like it brings up this like wait robots can feel pain this hasn't come up before maybe i don't know or maybe he's like see through p.o got blasted into bits why wasn't he like shrieking the whole time maybe he's screaming because he doesn't want to he likes the way his feet look it's not a physical thing it's just It's a really cool idea though, like to see, but you do immediately start going like, wait, what? Or maybe they like put a chip in his brain to make him feel pain. That'd be crazy. I mean, I think a thing, you know,

even if this is the weakest of the three movies, a thing that this film does well and it's in stark relief in this movie, because of its faults in other areas, I think becomes very clear. Stands in opposition to the Phantom Menace trilogy is there's a way to which all three of these movies are shot. And part of it is the technology, the limitations of the time, the fact that, you know, you couldn't do crazy CGI that you had to, as we talked about in the past, build a bunch of stuff, have it all ready on the same day, set it up in the frame, have the actors line up. And Jabba's this huge puppet that eight people are operating or whatever. Right.

There is so much that isn't explained. But it isn't aggravated because the stuff they don't explain is the stuff that is world-building. Like, what do you mean? Just give me one example. Whether or not robots can feel. Oh sure. I like that.

You don't need that. And then you see the disintegrated robot with the half just like Right. All these things and who the characters are you know whatever. You go into an environment like if you're making a movie

about lawyers like the judge. Like the judge. They don't need to spend the time explaining to us, okay, by the way, a lawyer is someone who... No, of course not. I get what world-building is.

Right. And what I like about these movies, as opposed to how the prequels work, is that the original trilogy, episode one, two, and three, I like that these films just don't explain shit. Yeah, no. They don't have a scene where you walk into Jabba's palace

and someone goes, so listen, Jabba comes from a family line. Technically, they own all the property here and this and that. So he collects rent from everybody and this is how he collected all of this. They shoot everything and dramatically play everything out in a way

like it is just a world, you know? Yeah, of course. Cinematically, it looks like it was shot in a courtroom, except it's not. It's shot in a crazy environment with weird? Yeah, of course. Like, cinematically, it looks like it was shot in a courtroom, except it's not. It's shot in a crazy environment with weird shit happening in the background. Let's, but let's, like, just in the case of, like,

what I also like is Lando's there. Yeah. But nobody knows. Right. But he's there. Right. And we just sort of take a glance at him. He's wearing a mask.

He's like a guard. And he's sort of, and you see that mustache, and you go, ooh. And then Leia shows up. Yeah. It's, you know, spoiler alert, guys, it's Leia. Dresses a little bounty hunter.

Yeah. With Chewbacca. And, like, you know, I just like, it's like, the droids show up. Ooh, there's Lando. Yeah. Here's Chewbacca. Like, we're like, ooh, everyone's dropping in. You are skipping over, though.

The droids get assigned to jobs. You know, I mentioned the slave guy. Yeah. So, but R2 becomes a bartender. R2-D2 is a translator. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 3PO's a translator is pretty funny because he doesn't get that he should finesse like negotiation.

He's very literal. But whatever. I mean, that's about the obvious. It's good. It's just like, it's not surprising to see C3PO struggling to understand human emotions. Not good at nuance. Or Hutt emotion.

Sure, sure. Emotions, period. Jabba the Hutt's really funny. Yeah, he's great. He's got this awesome language. Bad guy great character. He's like rubbery in the right way.

You know you can kind of see the seams of his costume but it's it almost helps. Do you think he had like It's really good that Lucas did not replace that puppet.

No. Do you think like his knees gave out between A New Hope and Return of the Jedi? Because A New Hope like he's not super mobile. But you're like, yeah, whatever. He just got so fat that he couldn't slither around. Because in this, he literally can't move.

I mean, it's like they have to wheel him out. Look, the reason is that it's a puppet, right? But still, I do like that bit. The limitations add up. I like that bit where they surprise Leia when she frees Han from the carbonite. Where it's like they just kind of roll him out. And it's like, how is he hidden? He's on this huge platform.

They had a poster in front of him. And they're just like, oh, there he is. They had a cardboard wall painted to look like he wasn't there. So, you know, Leia frees Han, but they get rumbled. This is badass because Leia comes in. She's very cool. And you don't know what's Leia at first. They don't tip the audience off to it.

It's a very small bounty hunter. But other than that, her face is fully concealed. She's got a voice modifier. She's pulling the same trick that they pulled in New Hope that like Chewbacca in Manacles trick yes but it's good

right and yeah and she has this tense standoff with Jabba it's very cool she has a grenade thermal detonator like and she

like impresses him right she causes blood he's like this is my kind of scoundrel and you're like scum scum this is like the coolest

bounty hunter we've seen in the film that she waits until nightfall Jabba's away he's hiding behind a one direction poster and she frees han yeah and han's kind of out of it yeah here's the problem then she gets rumbled and java puts her in a fucking sexy gold bikini okay if we're gonna talk about this problem yeah i mean like it's just annoying because leia is like so cool for five minutes and then it's like, and now enjoy, please enjoy Leia in a sexy gold bikini while a slug licks her. I mean, you can't deny it. No, I feel like now you're teeing me up to get into another conversation that you don't want to have.

What, about Marsha Lucas again? No. No, it's not about Marsha Lucas. I think there's a big thing to discuss here, which is the difference between the content within a film and how an audience interprets it. Oh, I guess so. No,

I just, it's more just, I just wish this movie let Leia do a little more. I think this movie struggles with that. I think she's only in the bikini for like 15 minutes. If that. Right. If that.

The opening of the film is the coolest Leia's ever been. Yeah. She's pretty cool in Empire when she's all in Boston. I think the Boosh stuff is the coolest. It's cool. It's just really cool. I think she's got some very cool stuff at the end of the film. She maintains agency. No, she's fine.

I don't know why. No, but this is an important thing to talk about because it's been like a lot of think pieces about this recently, right? I guess so. The problem is there are 20 minutes of the film that amount to maybe eight minutes of screen time in which within the narrative,

she is now a slave of Jabba's because he caught her trying to free Han or freeing Han, and now she's in a metal bikini and she's on a chain. She's the only female character the movies have. Right. Okay.

But, job is establishing a piece of shit. I get that it all makes sense within character. He doesn't appreciate women. It's a reality of the world that they've created. I guess so. I actually don't buy that argument totally. I do.

He's a slug. Why does he want to have sex with white women? Why doesn't he want to have sex with, I don't know. He's not having sex with them. Well, why does he want to have sex with white women? Why doesn't he want to have sex with, I don't know. Well, he's not having sex with them. Why does he want to lick and whatever, kind of fondle them? But from the time we walk in, he's got four women. I know, that's what I'm saying. It's kind of lame.

He's got open tastes. I don't really buy it. It feels like they're like, hey. It just feels like Larry Kasdan, young Larry Kasdan, and George Lucas being like, it'd be pretty fucking great if Leia was in like a crazy sexy bikini. See, this is where I disagree,

and I don't want to play devil's advocate here, but I feel like the film never sexualizes her to the audience. I think she exists as a thing that's being like abused by Jabba. We should say, she is one of the most iconic sex symbols in the history of cinema is leia in the gold bikini well this is the whole point i'm getting to five

can you take like can you hold the movie responsible for the fact that yes or like i think you can yes i don't know i don't know i'm not saying anything either way but i think it's a very tricky question which is that like this movie was seen by a lot of boys who were very young. I was never into this, by the way. I don't know if I feel I do feel like this is an early. Yes. Like a lot of men, straight men classify this like an early sort of awakening moment when I was eight years old and I saw Leia in Return of the Jedi. When you're eight years old, you don't see that many movies where women are that skin

to the cloud. I'm not I'm not objecting to that. Right. So I think it becomes this thing of like, you know, whatever the first thing you see establishes your sexual piccadillos or whatever it is. Yeah, Winona Ryder and Beetlejuice. Right. That's, yeah, the only person I want to date except the grown-up

version of it, which is essentially just modern-day Winona Ryder. We need to move on because we don't have much time but it's an interesting talk. It's an interesting debate. I don't know. I just think the problematic area is that for 30 years that became the dominant visual of Leia, the main costume that they merchandised, the thing that everyone talked about, this pop culture.

I mean, she has this heroic moment where she gets to kill Jabba the Hutt. Yeah. You know, which is nice. Yeah. Hey, no, her honey bun haircut. Also pretty. That was very iconic. That's true.

I would even argue to say that her wearing her white costume with the buns is pretty much just as iconic, I would say. Yeah. In the last 10 years, I will say, speaking from my area of expertise, the slave outfit's been merchandised more than anything else. Yeah. And the mere fact that the thing that's being merchandised is called a slave outfit. And fucking Amy Schumer was on the cover of GQ this year, like, sucking C-3PO's thumb,

wearing the slave layout. And like I don't give a... Amy Schumer can do whatever the fuck she wants. It's just at a certain point it gets a little tiring, I guess. And especially because the next most prominent

female character in the sequel trilogy is Mon Mothma. Is Mon Mothma. Yeah. Who has two lines of exposition. And like I said that to my girlfriend

when we were watching Return of the Jedi and she was like, who is Mon Mothma? And then when she showed up she was like, who's this lady? Like Mon Mothma's not then when she showed up she was like who's this lady? Mon Mothma's not a character

with like a ton of you know. No. So it's just whatever because it's like everyone gets you know drawn into the palace.

Han Solo and Chewbacca they're in jail. The droids are sort of servants. Leia's a slave. And then Luke shows up and like saves the day. It's pretty cool. And then Luke shows up and saves the day. It's pretty cool.

We're going over this this quickly? Yeah. Dude, we don't have much time. Yeah, I mean, there's a great moment here where they're on the barge. Everyone's there. Han is mostly blind. Yeah. They all look to each other and nod.

They hit this one awesome music cue. Every time one of them nods, they go like, Dump. Yeah, oh, it's great. And it's like a series of oh it's great which they reuse for the prequel trilogy uh trailers yes yeah uh lando everyone nodding how are they gonna get out of this r2d2 fucking shoots a lightsaber out of his head well the whole time r2 was there for him i mean i would backtrack even though you know just briefly like i just like luke's entrance when he's all in black yeah and he's suddenly like force commanding people out of his way. And choking a couple.

The guards. I guess he kind of like a little bit. And he like brainwashes Bib Fortuna. Yeah. And he's just the whole time like. Yeah see you went too fast over this. I did not go too fast. You went to the sail barge. I wasn't talking about that. I'm so on edge about the fact that I'm seeing this movie

tomorrow. Oh my god. And he like fights the rancor. Yes. But there's also this sort of misdirect where at this point in time you wonder if Luke is like turned back. Like he's black. He's choking people. I gotta be honest. I never thought that when I was like a kid. Like that never occurred to me.

But now watching it as an adult it's clearly meant to trick you. But I guess so yeah. Yeah. I guess because he gave up the droids, so you're thinking like, oh, what's up with Luke? The Rancor fight I love. Yeah, it's interesting. I enjoy the Rancor fight, but I will say it is sort of

it's emblematic of this movie's like, likable problems which are then embellished on unlikably in the prequel movies. where it's like he's gonna fight a giant crazy puppet

I don't know just cause like it'll be cool like it doesn't mean anything it feels like what Jabba would do watching people suffer he likes having women as slaves he likes watching men get killed like he's a bummer dude I know I know it's just Like, he's a bummer dude. I know.

I know. It's just like this movie's a little long. Yeah. And like. This is the longest of the three. Oh, easily. Yeah. It's 215, I think.

And like, it has a lot of sequences that are obviously like George Lucas sort of flexing his muscles, you know, being like, wow, we're going to do this crazy big stop motion creature. We're going to do this speeder bike chase. You know, all this. It feels effect showcase-y in a way the other two don't as much. wow, we're going to do this crazy big stop motion creature. We're going to do this speeder bike chase. It feels like effects showcase in a way the other two don't as much. The other two, it's like, I can't believe he was able to execute this vision. And this one, it felt like he was like,

what's a cool idea for a thing to happen? But I think all the things are cool. That's what I was saying. They're all very likable here. It's just like you do sort of get a whiff of like, oh, this is sort of, he's being encouraged maybe in the wrong direction a little bit and also the um the best part is um the that the rancor uh like what's his keeper the keeper whatever he is maybe my favorite thing in the entire set it's great it's such a good

note and they don't hit it too hard the guy doesn't have dialogue no he just cries luke kills the rancor and he walks in there. Which Luke should kill the Rancor. Right. Yeah. But the idea is this is a fully rounded universe in which everyone has their reasons. Well, yeah. And also, it's like you don't really hate the Rancor.

He's just like this giant beast who's kept in a cage. Right. And yes, Luke is our hero. He should kill the Rancor because he has to survive. But that guy's job for the last 10 years has been feeding this Rancor. Of course he'd be sad. And you have that shot of the guy consoling him. It's a great little moment.

It's a nice little humanist moment. Yeah, like everyone in the galaxy has their own life. They've got to wake up every morning and feed a rancor or get fired by Darth Vader. The rancor. Yeah. Anyway, we do have to move on. Yeah.

Because there's, oh my God. This is the best stuff in the movie to talk about is the first 40 minutes. The rest of the movie you can kind of push past. I agree with that. The Jabba sequence is so well realized. Yeah. And also Leia gets her just desserts.

Yeah. Choked Jabba. She chokes Jabba. And I noted that. Yes, she gets to choke Jabba. It's great. She looks miserable the whole time she's in the costume. I'm not saying she, I mean, Carrie Fisher has had a lot to say about that costume over the years.

I know. I mean, I don't have a clear thesis on it. I just think a lot of what's problematic about it is what culture has made of it in the last 20 years. Like, there was 20 years of everyone being like, fucking hot, huh? Not Star Wars itself doing that, but the things around Star Wars and the companies that make the t-shirts and the TV shows that parody it and then it becomes like well maybe if you only have one female character whether or not it's justified in the plot more female voices have been heard

in recent years than were heard at earlier points in time in all spectrums of culture if you only have one female character of note in a trilogy and you have her wear a bikini I'm not here to fucking do it people can take what they want.

Yeah. I agree. I don't know why I say that but I just think My big problem is that Leia then like her big moment is killing Jabba. Yes. She gets a couple other cool little notes in the movie. Speed of Bike Chase. Speed of Bike Chase is fun. There's that

moment where she shoots the stormtrooper you know where she's got the gun. But a lot of the movie. Speed of Bike Chase. Speed of Bike Chase is fun. There's that moment where she shoots the stormtrooper, you know, where she's got the gun. But a lot of the movie is Leia just kind of chilling out and being told things and kind of,

you know, she's all right, but she doesn't. It's her weakest. She doesn't have a huge arc except for being told she's Luke's sister. Yeah.

Which we knew. I don't know why the film. Well, she has to find out. So they give us that moment. But anyway, just to wrap up the Jabba stuff, because yeah, there's a lot.

It's like, there's that cool thing where Luke gets the lightsaber out of R2 and like, you know, does this cool like, jump off of the diving board. It's a little goofy,

but I like goofy things. I like that stuff. Maybe the best joke in the movie is... I like the reveal that his lightsaber is green. Me too. Yeah, I like all these cute little lightsaber is green. Me too. I like all these cute little things.

The Sarlacc is a good idea, except Luke- No, it's all CGI, too. Lucas added all this nonsense to it. It's not necessary. But no, the thing I was going to say is goofy, but maybe my favorite joke in the movie as a little boy and watching this movie and liking Muppets and retreating back to a simpler state of mind is Han's still largely blind.

Chewbacca growls something at him. He goes, Boba Fetta Fett Boba Fett Yeah and then turns around to try to find Boba Fett and in the process knocks Boba Fett off and calls it to a pit. I was gonna say it's kind of weird cause like Boba Fett's so hyped up and he's in the attack

of the clones and it's like oh his end is like Han accidentally knocks him into the starlash. It's a Mr. Magoo bit. Yeah. And it's like, oh, his end is like Han accidentally knocks him into the Sarlacc. It's a Mr. Magoo bit. Yeah. Boba Fett dies at the hands of a Mr. Magoo bit. Han Solo's pretty funny in this opening sequence too.

Like, he's being kind of sardonic with Luke. He's got that great line where he goes, where's Luke? He goes, oh, he's their Jedi. And he goes,

Luke, a Jedi? So I'm gone for a couple minutes. Everyone suddenly has delusions of grandeur. It's a great line. Great. And, you know, there's that thing where the tentacle has Lando and he like kind of shoots it it's all fun

it's good fun I do wish Boba Fett maybe just had a second more like he doesn't do anything I wish he wasn't a little boy in Attack of the Clones and there wasn't that misdirective making us think he's too important very true

so you know it's cool they blow up the sail barge clones and there wasn't that misdirected. That's true. Yeah, making us think he's too important. Very true. Yeah. So, you know, it's cool. They blow up the sail barge. It's all a little convenient, like the droids jump off at the last second and then they like magnetize them out. I just thought of an interesting question. What? Loses he loses

his lightsaber at the end of the previous movie. Yeah. He's got a new lightsaber. Yeah end of the previous movie. Yeah. He's got a new lightsaber. Yeah, he made it. We've learned from the Clone Wars animated series that where they make and how they, you know, it's the Jedi temple, the crystal. Right.

But there's no Jedis anymore. Who's making this lightsaber? No, because his lightsaber is green means it uses a synthetic crystal. So he didn't go to that cave. Is that true? That is the stupid canon explanation for that. I mean, the real reason it's green is because the special effects people needed a color that popped more against a blue sky.

But the in-canon reason. Yeah. Because like the original posters for this movie, he has a blue lightsaber. Interesting. But then eventually they were like, eh, blue doesn't look good. He's waving it against a blue sky a lot. Let's make it green. And thus multicolored lightsabers were born.

You know, it's like, I mean, this is the thing about Star Wars and all of these things that they layer in with all these additional movies. It's like accidental magic. It's like, yeah, they were just making a fucking movie. Like originally the lightsabers were going to be white in The New Hope. And they were like, ah, let's make one blue and red just so they look different. But, I mean, to throw out this thing about the special edition without invoking your least favorite woman in the world i'm going to strangle you i'm not going to invoke her i think george genuinely does go well but originally i want to be this it should look like this this and that and doesn't understand that uh that's the way it is

george a that's the way it is but you know you're not always right the things that have been my mistake are oftentimes happy accidents. That's true. But I do also think like, look, George Lucas is a weird character. There's not a lot of other directors who behave the way he did, which is essentially you made a couple movies and then you just worked on them for the rest of your life. Yep. And, you know, you hear about like Spielberg tweaking E.T. and immediately realizing like, I hated that I ever did that. You know, other directors have the opposite.

But, you know, that's the kind of director George Lucas is, and we just kind of have to live with it. Like, if George Lucas had made Silent Running and tinkered with it, no one would care as much. Because these movies don't mean that much. I mean, I like Silent Running, but, you know, it's not the cornerstone of America's most popular pop culture franchise. There's a story that Simon Pegg was at some Hollywood shindig party thing. Sure.

And was talking to Ron Howard, and George Lucas came up to him. And I guess Ron Howard was a big fan of Shaun of the Dead, was talking to him, and George Lucas came up and said, Hey, Ron, how are you doing? And Ron Howard said, Hey, have you met Shaun? Simon Pegg. Simon Pegg, sorry. Have you met Simon Pegg?

He's the guy who did Shaun of the Dead and he went no no I haven't seen it and Ron Howard oh man it's great it's so good it's the best thing I've seen in such a long time and Lucas went congratulations and he this is Simon Pegg's story he says that Lucas looked at him and said do me a favor

just promise me right now you won't end up making the same movie 30 years from now wow and like walked away so he was in some weird like melancholy mood said it as a haunted man like i do think i mean it's for sure that and it seems like from all these interviews george lucas has had to give revolving around a movie that he actually has no like stake in yeah the force awakens he seems pretty embittered about like look nobody liked my movies

you know what am I gonna do I think everyone's happy that I'm not involved in this one but became a prison for him

and perhaps the way this recording studio has become a prison for us you know I'm going to fucking kill you we need to get on

no but I'm trying to thematically tie everything together why you try too hard to tie everything together you spend too much time thinking about

one thing it starts to drive you mad maybe the release of the fact that tomorrow we'll see the new Star Wars movie and we'll be freed is the gift that we need for this Christmas season. David, don't. No. Don't grab Griffin like that.

Don't grab me, David. David, stop it. Stop voice choking me. I'm saying you're thinking too much about this whole fucking thing. I like narrative. We need to talk about Return of the Jedi. Okay, so Luke goes back to Dagobah. He sees Yoda.

Yoda is not doing well. I hate this scene. One of the worst. Probably the so Luke goes back to Dagobah. He sees Yoda. Yoda is not doing well. I hate this scene. One of the worst, probably the worst scene in the original trilogy, I would say. I disagree so strongly. This scene,

which was added at Lucas' request. Okay. It wasn't in the original script. Was Yoda not supposed to be in the film at all? Not supposed to appear. Interesting.

But Lucas decided after consulting with a child psychologist that kids might think that Vader was just lying when he said he was Luke's father. And so they needed like sort of a confirmation. I hate this scene because one, dying Yoda takes forever to say everything. And you're just like, Jesus Christ. Because all he's saying is like, Darth Vader's your dad.

You have a sister. And like, we know all that shit already. And Hamill doesn't really sell his feelings, which should be like, you know, he should have some major feelings about all this. Because basically what he's being told is like, look, we knew the whole time, and we've kind of watched you your whole life. You know, it's like a lot of whammy to put on a guy. It's a lot of whammy. And the thing where he's like, there is another Skywalker. You know, you're like, oh.

Well, this is me not being able to view this movie objectively. Because he's just like the. I think the puppetry is so good. It is. It's very well done. And, like, it's cool that Yoda looks more ancient than he did even in the last movie. And they really sell the physical performance of someone dying. I don't disagree with you.

I just think this scene is almost entirely superfluous and then it's followed by a scene where Luke just chats with Obi-Wan's ghost. Who previously has been this kind of difficult like see vision or this overheard voice. Now he's like sitting on a log with him. Now they're just like having a beer. And Luke's like, what's the deal? And Obi-Wan's like, look, I don't know. Anakin and Darth Vader are almost two different people to me. And you're like, all right.

Like it feels like retconning. I think this is the worst part of the whole movie. I agree. Yeah. I mean, or at least you see where I'm coming from. I do. I see where you're coming from. I just have such a hard time actually judging this film. I agree. Or at least you see where I'm coming from. I do. I see where you're coming from. I just have such a hard time actually judging this film. It's fine.

I agree with you. Because there are lots of things in this movie that I like that I know I should maybe be a little more critical of. But this scene has never been a favorite of mine. I'm less into puppetry than you are. Yeah, I just love puppetry. I can get blinded by that. But you've got to admit the Obi-Wan scene is like

That's some goofy nonsense. I actually feel a little bad for Alec Guinness who you know was never particularly interested in the Star Wars movies. Like that they brought him in for this. Do you know who I think also feels a little bad for Alec Guinness? Alec Guinness during that scene.

He looks really, really embarrassed. He just looks a little pained. He's like... It's just all exposition. Which is kind of Obi-Wan's He looks really, really embarrassed. He just looks a little pained. Really pained. He's like, ugh. You know, because it's just all exposition. Yeah. Which is kind of Obi-Wan's facility in the original movies, in the non-original movies. But is also starting to tiptoe towards the problems of the Phantom Menace trilogy. Yeah, it is.

Where it's all explained out loud. Well, this is the key difference. Like, for Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, George Lucas is a very good storyteller. He's telling stories. And in this one, he's starting to get into plot. Like, there's a lot of plot to be dug up and, like, distributed. It's interesting because you're right. And yet, also, the plot's, like, basically already known.

But isn't that the exact thing that happens with the Phantom Menace trilogy? Oh, yeah, for sure. Where it's like the basic beats are so simple and he's adding all this plot to the sidelines that like can be inferred, doesn't need to be focused on. We've actually, we have discussed the failures of the Phantom Menace trilogy. But I mean, obviously the problem with that is like he probably has about one and a half movies worth of like prequel plot. And so he has to pad it out with all kinds of nonsense. You know what's really bad? The prequel movies. They're so bad. Every time

I think of something from them I'm like, ugh. Because I've been watching the original, the old movies. They also don't even look like the same films. They don't. They don't look like they're part of the same franchise. The only thing that looks the same is like lightsabers. Like, you know, really simple visual effects. The only thing that looks the same is like lightsabers. Like, you know, really simple visual effects.

The only thing that's the same is the music and the sounds, basically. We need to see this new movie. We need to just like exercise all these demons from us. This room is haunted now. I think that's the purpose. Ben? One hour. We're at the one hour. Yeah, I know. We got it. We got it. But you know what? You're kind of right because after the

Jabba stuff and that little Dagobah sequence, we meet at at the Rebel Alliance base. The Rebel Alliance seems to be mostly governed by these red fish people who we've never met before. My favorite character. Ackbar's great. Look, I mean, you don't know what's going on there, but like you say, it's kind of like the Jabba stuff. You're like, all right, cool. Yeah, he has a fish head sticking vertically outside of a human suit.

And he has like flipper arms, like flipper hands, which makes no sense because it's a spaceship that's clearly just designed for like humans that has like buttons and dials.

His main job would be hitting buttons. You're like, how the fuck does any of this work? It doesn't matter. But he's got a great voice. He does. His Mac Flaps.

Mac Flaps is cool. They seem to be like the calamari people. They seem to, they're called the calamari, which is hilarious. The best. They seem to be like the Calamari people. They seem to, they're called the, which is hilarious. The best. They seem to be like the naval backbone.

Like they have all these big ships that like. Well, because like Mon Mothma's a human and she's. Mon Mothma's a human. And she's in the prequel trilogy, mostly in deleted scenes. Exclusively in deleted. Does she not even show up? If she does, it's in a background. It's silent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure, I'm all but certain she does not appear visually. I'll say this. I hate the Mon Mothma yeah. I'm all but certain she does not appear visually. I'll say this. I hate the Mon Mothma stuff. I hate it. Why? Because she is like, many Bothan spies died to get this information.

And there I'm like, all right. Well, we don't know what those are. So, you know, like she's selling it way too hard for me. Yeah. But once again, I think this is that thing. This is the movie where George is starting to get way too interested in the small details. A little bit. You know? It's the forest through the trees thing.

Like he's, oh people like the fact that this world exists. Let's spotlight it a little more. Which is what happens in the sequel. But I think there's a tricky balance, which is that like you can have these things existing around the film and not explained, and they add intrigue. Let me say say this i don't disagree with

you we just really have to get to the end of this but the second you start to hint at it a little bit you become aware of the fact that you don't know more we haven't even talked about the ewoks or the emperor so they land on the planet endor no the moon forest moon of the planet right anyway there's two plots yes this is what happens everyone happens. Everyone meets up. Lando's there. And we're sent on two missions. Mission one, go to this forest moon. You're a general. Shut down. Yeah.

You know, Solo, Han's in charge of this mission. Go to the forest moon. Shut down the force field that's around the Death Star. Yeah. I like this idea. Death Star is not yet finished. It has to be protected by a force field. Just shut down the security.

Shut it down. Yeah. Mission two. What the fuck is lando in the millennium falcon you're a general with like the the rebel fleet yes you're gonna once this is shut down fly into the death star blow it up nine numb is his nine numb is his mickey mouse awesome he's on the falcon cool so mostly we're on plot a like Mm-hmm. Like, it's crazy. Like, I remember this movie being overlong and having a lot of Ewok shit. It has so much of this shit.

Yeah. There's this really cool start where there's this speeder bike chase that we've talked about. Awesome. Really, like, visually interesting where they're racing through the trees. Yeah. Like, I love that Lucas kept finding new ways to do, essentially, like, a space battle. But, like, with different environments. Yeah, yes. This essentially like a space battle but like with different environments you know like this is like a bike chase I mean whatever it's got its it's footing

a lot of you know that's cool but a forest is an environment we know and we're placing something we don't know in it it's still relatable this introduces Leia to the Ewoks yeah who are adorable teddy bear creatures with big like black eyes yeah well honestly they look like a bunch of teddy bears they look like the care bears they sort of behave i mean they seem to resemble the native american culture i guess so in the way that he does this vague mapping it is their childlike native america it is utterly offensive to consider but it makes the correct choice of not having them speak right english right which does help. But they are so annoyingly child-

I mean, basically, they're a quote-unquote primitive culture. And much like in Phantom Menace, Lucas seems to delight in the idea of like, oh, they beat the Empire using their know-how and their guerrilla tactics. And they're really small. They're very- And Dan hates this. He's on the record of hating little beings that win stupidly. I want to be on the record.

I think that Wicket, the main Ewok, played by Warwick Davis, a young Warwick Davis, is so cute. I do, too. I love him, and I like the Ewoks in general. I mean, when I was a kid, I fucking loved the Ewoks. This is the thing. I once again can't be objective. I know. It's hard to be objective.

It's so tough. I like that they're in little suits, but I like the... Yeah. Wicket's got a little butt, and he toddles around. He's got a be objective. It's so tough. I like that they're in little suits. Wicket's got a little butt and he toddles around. There's this really cute scene where he thinks Leia's helmet is like a weapon and he's like,

cute. It's all great. Love the Ewoks. If you consider the Ewoks too much, they bum you out. You can't deny it. Also, maybe they should only be in like 20 minutes of the movie as opposed to four and a half hours of the movie. It's so annoying because they like capture Luke and Han and all these people. Yeah.

And like there's this sense that like there are stakes, like maybe they're going to murder them. Yeah. And you just never buy it. They worship C-3PO as a god. Which essentially feels like a plot line from Mork and Mindy. It feels like a sitcom subplot where they think he's a god because he's gold and then Luke has to levitate him to make it look like he's magic so that he can convince them not to eat Luke. But it's goofy. Like it's kind of goofy.

There's a bizarre scene where C-3PO does the plot of the previous movies in like Ewok language using sound effects. Yeah, because they haven't seen the Star Wars movies. It is fucking stupid as shit. And like so there's stuff like that that's stupid as shit it's goofy and like on this sequence is where suddenly han solo becomes aware of a love triangle that no longer exists oh he for the first time it's so weird on the fact that after basically just like being with leia in this movie he suddenly his confidence like leaves him and he's like oh you're in love with luke you must be in love with Luke it's fine I'll leave

don't worry I'll get out of your hair and it's so weird because we and Leia and everyone's just like no no that actually Han like that basically

has been dispensed with no that's he no this is my brother there's this really boring scene where Luke reveals to Leia that he that they're related

that I think doesn't land it's kind of my problem with Leia's arc is she sort of like passively just like listens to all this stuff. But see, I think Richard Markham isn't a very good actor's director. Well, George Lucas disagrees with you. I think he was probably had a better process. No, I don't disagree.

I think the performances are pretty weak in this. The big emotional scenes in this movie all are really forced. But like, look, let's make, my friend Marie Barty. Our friend. Our friend. Yeah. Pointed out to me that like Leia has a crazy fucking coke fingernail in this movie. She's got one long fingernail which is like you know

I think everyone in this movie is just kind of like alright like are we done? Like Harrison Ford basically wanted to be like dead in this movie. He wanted them to kill him off. You know Mark Hamill I don't know him as much. I'm sure he was fine, but you know. He looks really good in this movie. He is.

And, you know, Carrie Fisher, like everyone feels like just a little detached. Yeah. Like a little emotionally detached. Yeah. From a production that I imagine was a little more elaborate and annoying. And they were all famous. You know, especially Harrison Ford was already Indiana Jones at this point.

Least experienced director they had worked with. Yeah, so like, that does show through in the performance, like in the scenes where there is not special effects, which is few. Mm-hmm. Maybe like two. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. The Ewok stuff especially. Well, let's get to the Darth Vader stuff because that's the last important thread to cover. mean the major thing in the ewok stuff is just that there is this long obviously vietnam inspired scenes of like the ewoks defeating the imperials yeah like using tree drunk right and it's like kind of cute it's a little much. And it just sort of reminds you of the Gungan thing, which is way worse, but is in the same, like, ballpark. I know. You like it.

It's fun. Which is tough. Because I watched it even, like, last night and was like, I don't know why people are so hard on this. And as you explain it, I'm like, I completely understand why people are so hard on this. No, I know. When you watch it, you're basically, I do think it goes on a bit. Like, you know, they have, like, four sequences with logs, and you're like, four sequences with logs and you're like we get it they got logs they got logs can hit people we get yeah no it's they hit it they hit it pretty hard uh the the best scene i would say in all of

that in all of the forest stuff is just when the the imperial surprise han solo and the guy goes you rebel scum and you never see the imperialsials get worked up or hate the rebels. It's just sort of fun to see that guy getting his one line in. On the other end, Luke gives himself up to Vader. Because Yoda said, you've got to kill Vader. You're not a Jedi until you kill Vader. Because Luke's like, check, check, check.

I've done all the Jedi stuff. At no point have the Jedi ever said, you go into the cave and you've got to calm your emotions. And yes, then of course you go into the cave, and you've got to calm your emotions, and yes, then, of course, you get your license to kill mission. I think it's more... I think it's more just Yoda being like, Vader's got to go, and you're the only one who can do it.

I think it's a little that, and column A, column B is a little bit of, like, that's the thing that's still holding you back. Yeah. You know, like, Vader represents so much to you. It's, like, the fear of, you know, that you have to conquer inside of you. No, that's fair. For him to say you have to kill Vader, as opposed to... Only then's like the fear of, you know, that you have to conquer inside of you. No, that's fair.

For him to say you have to kill Vader as opposed to- Only then a Jedi you will be, he says. Right, as opposed to you have to face Vader. I'm going insane right now. Jarth Dator. Jarth Dator. He goes, gives himself up to Darth Tator. Yeah, Darth Tator.

The Mr. Potato Head version of Darth Vader. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they like have this talk they have like a very casual sort of talk where he's like you're my dad hey dad what's up dad and Vader's like I'm not your dad man I'm crazy you look at me I'm a big black robot

man I'm scary Pete this you're not only my dad you're Leia's dad and he's like yes Luke tells him that no yes am I wrong about this you're totally wrong's dad. And he's like, yes, Luke tells him that. No. Yes. Oh. Am I wrong about this? You're totally wrong. The whole sister scene comes in the final battle.

It's like the climactic moment of the battle. Oh, right. Where he says, sister, you have a sister. Yes, yes, yes. Your feelings betray her. Yes, yes, yes. No, it's just, it's Luke almost being impetuous, being like, hey, Anakin, what's up, Anakin? And Vader's like, I'm not Darth Vader.

Don't call me that. And he's like, uh-huh, Anakin, yeah, you're my not Darth Vader and he's like uh huh Anakin yeah you're my dad Anakin you're my you're good I can you know he's like yeah I can feel it I can feel it and Vader's like shut up shut up and takes him to the Emperor so we're finally seeing the Emperor

yeah one he looks so much better than he did in the when his when he looked like the influence in Revenge of the Sith. Well, because it almost looks in this film like he's just an old man. Yeah, he's got impressive but not absurdly

symmetrical evil face makeup. He's just kind of got white, saggy skin with shit all over his face. But you almost didn't need to explain why his face got fucked up. No, he's old and evil. You could just, in Revenge of the Sith,

have him look like that and then have him 30 years later look like this. He should just be Voldemort-y. The whole point of Voldemort is like, well, he's powered by evil magic, so he looks evil. Yes. You know, it's kind of twisted him.

Yes. That's what we get from the Emperor. The Emperor, 80% of the time, he's sitting in a chair and just saying to Luke, kill me. Kill me. Come on. Well, it's like a real mirror of the scene from Revenge of the Sith where he's in an identical chair.

Sure. And he's going, good, good. Yeah. He's basically- And he's saying to Luke, I'm going to crush the Rebel Alliance. I've set this whole thing up. Yeah. This is your big moment to just get angry and mad and then-

And Vader and the Emperor are both saying to Luke, like, hey, man, you don't know how cool it is to fucking be evil. It's like the best. We know the Emperor is basically thinking, like, look, Anakin didn't totally work out. He's a weird robot. Here's our new guy. Let's, you know, nail it this time. Right. So they start having a full-on battle.

He eventually goads Luke into sort of emotional violence. Right? Like being angry. And Luke kind of tries to chill out and then Vader yeah, there's that whole scene where he's like, your sister perhaps I'll turn your sister. And that's when Luke goes berserk, chops his hand off. But then

like, and this is a moment I think that people are debating right now because people are wondering what Luke's going to be like in the new movie. But he's like no no not gonna do it not gonna like turn to the dark side there's the cool moment where he looks at the stuff he looks at his hand and the black glove right and he's like I'm not gonna and it's sort of a reflection of the cave scene yeah and then the emperor just like you know starts jacking him up with lightning right you know he's like all right fine I fine, I'm going to kill you. Yeah.

How do you feel about this scene? Fine. Well, what's the problem that people have with it? I don't know if people have a problem. It takes a while. I guess the Emperor's just supposed to be torturing him. Yeah. You're like, come on, he can't kill him?

Yeah, I think it's a torture. I guess so. His end goal isn't to kill him. It's to get him to change his mind. It's an idiotic move on the emperor's part because it basically moves vader to like finally snap and toss the emperor into the he gets a crab walk over there's like yeah multiple of vader kind of going like turning to luke turn to the emperor turn to like he's like watching a tennis game but it's also a movie and they gotta i mean this is the moment you've been building up to this whole time.

You have to, you know, hit it hard, I guess. Lucas added this thing where he goes like, no, which is insane. I had totally forgotten about that. It's the same fucking no from the end of Revenge of the Sith. He puts the no in there. But he kills the emperor. Now, here's my question, because I think we have to discuss this, even though we only have a few minutes. Yeah.

Is Vader really redeemed? discuss this even though we only have a few minutes yeah is vader really redeemed all he does is kill the emperor in a fairly selfish moment just he doesn't even like the emperor who likes the emperor he's an asshole i don't and he's trained trying to save his son i don't think redeemed like we're talking about a guy who like massacred lots of jedis and then i assume committed countless atrocities as Darth Vader. But the movie acts like, you know what? In the end, he was a good guy. I don't think it redeems him.

I think in that final moment, it shows his humanity takes over again at the final moment. I don't think he could do- He was never totally lost, I guess. Right. There's nothing he could do to redeem like 40 years of bullshit maybe the idea well but he says like you were right you know we see him played by Sebastian Shaw this sort of chalk white yeah kind of you know fucked up looking guy yeah and uh like maybe the idea is he's finally free of the emperor's spell I think he's free of the spell and I think he like um his humanity wins over again but I don't think he's redeemed.

Right. You know, I don't think. It's just, it's a note. And he, you know, he dies. Vader dies. Vader dies. And Luke burns his body, much like Qui-Gon's body was burned. He burns his body on Endor.

The final scene between Luke and Vader I like. It's like, it's a father and son talking for the first time. It's pretty good. And you see, like, oh, right. And Luke's sad. Luke's like, ah, you're gonna die? Shit, I can save you. And Vader's just like a dude.

He's just like a sad old dude inside a suit, yeah. On the other side, we've got like, they blow up the shield and there's a pretty cool space battle. It's pretty cool. Ewoks have a party.

Well no, we freaking, come on, the space battle, Lando blows up the Death Star. Oh yes, it's awesome, yes. Yeah, Ackbar says it's a trap. Right, they realize, yeah.

I mean, it's not quite as thrilling as the original movie's Death Star run because you kind of know where it's going. We've already seen the Death Star. We know what's going to happen. And we know the Millennium Falcon's not going to blow up. We know Lando's not going to die. Yeah.

You just kind of know these things. It's just kind of clear that everything's just waiting to get, we're just waiting for Han Solo to blow up the energy field We just want to get all our friends back in one place. Yeah. And then they reunite and they have a party on Andor. And then Lucas cuts in scenes of celebration. I know.

It's such a bummer. Now, to really lift, like, you know, like, just to think about it. Because, like, he adds all these things. They cut to Gungans. They cut to Naboo. They cut to Coruscant. Places we have not seen in these first three movies. In this trilogy at all. And then we see the ghosts of Obi-Wan, Yoda,

and Anakin, as played by Hayden Christensen. Fuck you. And what I think, I really think it's brilliant. I think it's brilliant. Because it's George Lucas just saying, he knows at this point when he's making these Blu-rays, because it was the Blu-ray where he inserted this, right? Yes, on the DVD it was still Sebastian Shaw

playing an unscarred ghost of Anakin. yeah and and i know lucas has this whole thing where he's like well when anakin was good he looked like ken christensen so that's what he should like he has like his whole rationalization that's not why he did it he did it because he knows grown-ups were just like fuck those movies i'm showing my kids four five and six forget the prequels i'm not going to show them the prequels. And he's like, oh, yeah, well, if you do that, your kid's going to be like at the end be like, who's that? What's this? Like he basically makes it impossible for you to not watch the prequels in one final little visual like gag.

Do you actually think that's his? I think that as much as you think Marsha Lucas stained glass window. Well, I believe that very strongly. Well, there you go. I do think that it is him saying, like, these movies are one six-part series. Yes, I agree with that. And, like, you cannot avoid that.

Exactly. I think he thinks they're all the same movie and does understand how people could like one and not like the other. I'm sorry that I got so mad at you, although I was so mad at you. It's fine. I haven't slept in three days.

I get to see this new movie. I do want to say, we have spent how many weeks? 36, I think. So many weeks just speculating on this man's intentions. This was the last one he ever had a hand in. It's crazy how much we do that. I know. It is crazy. I know, but I just think you... And I sympathize with him because I do like I was saying earlier, he's overly scrutinized and bullied. Yeah.

And like he did make all these things we love. Yeah. But it is crazy how much you think about just fucking George Lucas, man. Well, can I end this episode with one story? Okay, sure. It's about George, but I think it's important. Okay. Is it like a...

Okay, go ahead. Kathleen Kennedy, who now is in charge of Lucasfilm, spearheading all these new movies. There was a piece on Entertainment Weekly recently when they talked about when George came to her and he said, I feel like everyone's just mad at me no matter what I do. I was going to make new movies. Oh, I love this story. This is a good story. But now I just, I don't know.

He was basically feeling out like maybe I should hand this off. Right. What do you want to take over Star Wars? And she said, that's a big responsibility. Star Wars means a lot to a lot of people. And I don't know if I understand why yet. So I need some time to see if I can figure out what Star Wars is, like on a cellular level,

before I feel comfortable being the one who has to make the new ones. She's a smart lady. So she did a lot of research and read all the things that the fans wrote and tried to differentiate between what they liked and what they didn't like and why the prequels and the originals and the whatever and the whatever. Gotcha. And she said, the thing I'm missing is I need to figure out where these movies came from. Yeah, where were you when you were coming up with A New Hope?

So she went to George and asked him that, and he went, well, I like adventure serials and Buck Rogers. He gives the answer that a Wikipedia entry basically could give. It's like, you know, Joseph Campbell, Buck Rogers, you know, the end. And she went, no, where were you when you made that? Emotionally, George. Where were you emotionally? It was like a space soap opera.

It's about families. They're for children. Like, he kept on doing that. Hitting his beats and, like, saying, you know, Chewbacca was based on my dog. You know, whatever. And she went, like, okay, George, new conversation. I'm not asking you about star wars right what was happening in your life roughly between the years of the mid 70s 20 and 30 yeah

right right right early mid 70s and he went well um you know my father owned a hardware store and growing up everyone thought i was going to take over the hardware store and that was what my family cared about and i didn't want to do i didn't know what i want to do but i knew that living a life as a hardware store owner didn't seem exciting to me. And she was like oh that's Star Wars. Right. I mean like that's the yearning to like escape and to

you know sort of. You don't know what but you know there's something out there for you in the world. That's Luke looking at the sun. I don't know what it is but there's something in this world there that's meant out there for me. And as people talk about the hero's journey, Luke is not the chosen one in this movie. Right. He's a kid, right?

Who happens to be at the right place at the right time. He's not someone who gets a blood test that confirms that maybe he's part of a prophecy. He's just a kid. He's someone who feels like, I want my life to be something different. A classic, you know, hero journey type character. I don't feel like I belong here, but I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. Gazing out at the stars. At the right place at the right time.

And Obi-Wan says to him, if you want to come with me. I mean, it's like Obi-Wan says, like, you've always been meant to do this. It's sort of, it's like the same thing that Harry Potter and a million other things do, where it's like, you, turns out, you're actually kind of special. Let's go. But I don't know what it's going to be. There's no Jedi Council anymore. We don't know, right?

Yeah. As opposed to the Phantom Mass Trilogy is a kid who seemingly is happy with his life despite being a slave. I mean, let's not speculate. He's all right. He's doing fine. But he seems to be doing okay. He doesn't seem to have a yearning. No.

Who is like swept up. Weather Knight's happy. He doesn't seem to have a yearning. Who's swept up in a grand story. By a bunch of adults who point their fingers at him. Yeah. And they say. You're supposed to do something important.

Because of a blood test. You're important. You have to do this. Yeah. And I think the fundamental difference is that the original films are George Lucas going, I don't know. I have something to say. I need to figure out what it is.

Right. And the Phantom Menace trilogy is a bunch of people going, you're a genius. You made those movies that everyone loved. You have to keep on being a genius. You have to do this thing again. And with those pressures and those expectations, he just sort of went crazy.

Yeah. I mean, not to use the word crazy loosely. He killed a bunch of younglings. I get the parallel you are drawing. But that he succumbed to the expectations. He felt heartbroken. He made a movie about the pressure of expectations. Yes.

And about how power corrupts. And they're not good movies, but they are kind of about that. They're about expectations going wrong. They're very telling films. And they're about, like, you know, that you can't fight fate. And if you do, you know, it's going to fuck with you. And he didn't know what he wanted to say anymore. Or if he even had had anything to say and now he doesn't get to make any more star wars movies look for all we've talked about him i i do i feel very deeply uh grateful to him and what he created

love him and anytime i see him i feel a little pang and i do think he's a sweetie pie you know and i feel bad like i feel bad for all the people out there including us who have shit on him for so much. It's because he made things that we cared about so much. But he's not a bad guy. And we need to sort of rewrite that narrative. Yeah. I mean well I think there's it's just a complicated

narrative and we just you know we're just part of it. He's a hurt man. He's a scared man. He's a confused man. But who isn't? Yeah but also he's just like one thing in this giant monster he created that's good and bad, you know, and he's just swept up in it. He was a farm boy staring at the sunset. You're trying too hard.

And then he had to kill his dad, you know? Yeah, no, but I mean... I'm trying too hard, but I think that's... No, but I mean, your general point is pretty good. What do you say? I say this is the end of our episode. What do you say? I say this is the end of our episode. I do too. Not just the end of the episode.

The end of me having to hear more about Star Wars. That's the real story here. Well, except that tomorrow we're going to see the new movie and then Friday we're- Yeah, but he's not going to be in town. I didn't get tickets. You guys will show up and do whatever the fuck you do. Yeah, he's just going to be in town. I didn't get tickets you guys will show up and do whatever the fuck you do. Yeah he's just going to hit record but Ben you're forgetting one thing

what? We got a holiday special oh fuck don't worry I'm sure it's good ding ding ding so close as always Griffin will take us home because I need to pee a holiday special a holiday special

yeah we'll see you guys for the holiday special we'll be coming out around Christmas time Force Awakens will be coming out Podcast Awakens will be coming out on Monday yeah

and the holiday special I believe will be coming out on Thursday something like that oh really or we're not going to just do it the next Monday yeah well no

we'll do it it'll come out Monday the 28th probably right we'll see it'll be coming out soon whatever we'll figure it have fun

but as always as always it's been a pleasure guys. Have fun. But as always, it's been a pleasure, guys. It's been a pleasure. As always, we love you, Sharps. Aww.