Blank Check with Griffin & David - Say Anything…

Episode Date: June 23, 2016

In the debut episode of a new mini-series examining the filmography of Cameron Crowe, Griffin and David discuss the iconic 1989 romcom: Say Anything… What is Crowe’s origin story? How was he involved with Fast Times at Ridgemont High? Is this John Cusack’s career defining performance? Together, the BC crew talks romcom troupes, a young Fraiser’s Dad (John Mahoney) progressive father-daughter relationship, marrying the cast of Friends and singing Peter Gabriel’s “In Your Eyes.” Plus, a merch spotlight, a terrible Humphrey Bogart impression and please tweet #playitagainsam to @GriffLightning, @davidlsims and @BarackObama.

I gave her my heart and she gave me a podcast. Yeah! David is holding his arms above his head as if... As if a boombox is in them. And what's coming out of that boombox? A new miniseries. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Timms. This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David, a.k.a. The Two Friends.

That's not part of the title. No, it's not. That's just a little hint for the listeners. In case you're wondering who we are, we're hashtag The Two Friends. We're two friends. We host a podcast together. Here's what we do. We pick filmmakers.

We go through their careers, their oeuvres. We're fascinated by when someone gets a big success early on. Big success. Gets a lot of freedom later on and often they sort of fall off a cliff. Sure. Maybe they fall off a cliff. Maybe they make something no one understands. Maybe they do both. Yeah.

Once in a while they get the magic back. A lot of the time they try. We love redemption stories but for us it's like this fascinating. We like looking at careers in the sort of the macro. And then week by week we go into the micro. We go project by

project. What's that? Do you hear that? That's a clean snap of a new miniseries right here that we're starting. I'm getting some bad snaps. Let's do a high five. That was really bad. Can we try a crisper? Alright, that was pretty good.

I don't know if the mics picked it up, though. Yeah. This is a new miniseries right now, and by popular demand, the title of this miniseries is We Pod a Cast. Yes. Do you want to talk about that? I would love to talk about that. So we're, for the next two and a half months or so, Are going to discuss the films of one Cameron Crowe.

Now, let's say this right off the bat. There was some debating. We are only going to cover the things that he directed. Yeah. He wrote Fast Times at Richmond High. Yeah. It's based off a book that he wrote. He also wrote another screenplay that was based on leftover stuff from the book.

Called The Wildlife. Yes. Yeah. We thought about doing a double episode with that, but, you know, for the sake of our show, we're trying to keep it... I'm not...

I wasn't that into that. We're trying to keep it clean, you know, and he's got enough films. I think we are going to cover... We're auteurists, or at least I am. We're auteurists, yes,

and we're going to cover, with him, there's some interesting stuff. There are two feature-length music documentaries. Music documentaries. Music documentaries. Yes.

That I think we might do as, like, a bonus bonus or put them both into one episode or something like that. Yeah, great. I'm going to get to learn about Pearl Jam. Yeah. Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam 20, bro. Mm-hmm. And then there's also, he has directed a handful of music videos.

Sure. And- We'll probably get to those in another bonus episode. Is that the plan yes i think by the time this episode uh is released it will be too late for people to attend this but we are going to be doing a live episode at the del close marathon the ucb del close marathon tweet about it we'll be doing that with a special guest it'll be a 45 minute episode because uh it'll be a little puncher it'll be a little but we're because we're time constraints. It'll be a little punchy. It'll be a little pow. But we're gonna go through some of the music videos that old Crow.

In 45 minutes, we will probably just set up the premise of the podcast, talk for five seconds, and then sign off. Well, here's something that usually takes about 45 minutes. Introducing the third member of our motley crew. I'm nodding. I'm nodding, but I'm more like shaking. Of our Pearl Jam.

Yeah. He is the producer of Of our Pearl Jam. Yeah. He is the producer of this show. Yes. Of course, manning the ones and zeros, chiming in with his own opinions, generally just keeping us together. We are the ghosts that haunt his studio, and he is the gatekeeper, I guess.

I don't know. My metaphor is not tracking. You're adding shit. Yeah, okay. His name is Benjamin Haas. Great. Hello, Fennel. And there have been some complaints that Hello, Fennel has not been mentioned in a while. Oh, explained.

That's not what they were talking about. We might do a best of episode. Where we just explain the weird in-jokes? It's like a syllabus for some in-jokes. We might do that if we have a week where we can't record. We cut together an episode where we explain some of the other stuff. Like, you know, there are all these different nicknames and people don't know where they came from. Yeah. It would

be pretty cool, although probably a lot of work for Ben, to go through the old episodes and find the first mention of every dumb fucking nickname. Agreed. But let's say this. If you're a listener of the show, right, and you're listening at a different point, you're going back to listen to old episodes, you re-listen, whatever it is. If you have ideas of some moments that you would want included in a best of the show, right? And you're listening at a different point. You're going back to listen to old episodes. You re-listen, whatever it is.

If you have ideas of some moments that you would want included in a best of, they don't have to just be bits. They don't have to be explanations of things. They can be moments of I'm eating a muffin. Adept criticism. Well, this is a classic bit, is eating on mic. Yep. If you have any suggestions like that, please email us at

blankcheckpod at gmail.com. Is it blankcheckpod or podcast? I can't remember. I think it's pod. It's great that we don't know. Also, we are opening a new mini-series

by like, you're talking about the backstories. I know, Jesus Christ. Okay. Twitter, Facebook, all those places you can hit us up.

I read every email. We never respond to them. I'm bad at emails. But know that they're always read and cataloged and processed your suggestions. And feel free to suggest any things you want to best up.

Because people who are jumping in right now, new miniseries, they like Cameron Monroe. They might be confused. They might be confused. They might go, Ben Hosley. Okay, I got it. But then if I were to say producer Ben, they'd go, okay, that still makes sense because he's the producer of the show. If I were to say producer Ben, they'd go, well, I guess because he's a professional doer. You did this last time. Don't annotate every single nickname.

It takes forever. They dropped the C, though. The Ben-do-cer. Yeah, I mean, we're combining the two. It's a portmanteau. You know, the Peepers, because sometimes he likes to peep in and watch people fucking. Well, no, hold on. Keep going, keep going. He's the tiebreaker, because if you and I are disagreeing on something, he's the third party. He's able to do that.

Birthday Benny, because he has a birthday once a year. Oh, hey, you know, actually, after this episode airs, it had been my 31st birthday. Oh, wow. Birthday Benny. Never, after this episode airs, it had been my 31st birthday. Oh, wow. Happy birthday, Benny. Never more topical. That's right. Another one that's topical, Mr. Positive, because he sounds pretty good right now. Usually it's an ironic nickname because he's miserable, but right now I think, Ben, you're

in a pretty good mood, right? Yeah, feeling good. You seem to be doing pretty well in your life. The Poet Laureate, because when he jumps in with this sort of super on-point film criticism, he sounds more literate than the two of us, but it's because he writes shit down in advance. Hello Fanel obviously is. No, not explained. Carry on.

A nickname there. No, because that needs to be a mystery. People need to figure it out for themselves. Yeah, go back. Listen to the archives. I forget which episode it is. I actually re-listened to it recently, though, and it's still funny. It's always funny. Yeah, I listen to my podcast. I listen to my own podcast. Yeah, go back. Listen to the archives. I forget which episode it is. I actually re-listened to it recently though and it's still funny. It's always funny.

Yeah, I listen to my podcast. I listen to my own podcast. Yeah, it's a great podcast. Don't call him Professor Crispy. You may be so inclined because No, but don't.

the audio is crisp but don't do it. It's just rude. It's rude. It's 2016. And then there are some podcast names. He's the fuckmaster too.

Don't forget that he's the fuckmaster. Sure, okay. But then there are some podcasts Because he's the master fuckmaster. There are some miniseries specific names. Well he graduates to different titles such as producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo Ben, Ben Night Shyamalan, and Ben Sate.

What will his next name be? We don't know. Someone already suggested the one that I think it's going to be. Tell me. I want to know. You want to know on air? I mean usually we save it for the last episode. Alright fine. I'll save it. I just got one suggestion that was so perfect. I just want to know. You want to know on air? I mean, usually we save it for the last episode. All right, fine. I'll save it. I just got one suggestion that was so perfect. I just want to know.

I'll tell you off mic. Yeah, I know you will. Cameron Crowe. Cameron Crowe. So why do we want to do Cameron Crowe, Griffin Newman? Well, we thought it would be interesting to mix it up with a non-genre filmmaker. Yes, we've done genre filmmakers like M. Night Shyamalan, George Lucas, and the Wachowskis. Now we're doing a man who traffics in the rom-com the dramedy i'd say the rom-droms yeah yeah sort of reinvented the the romantic comedy drama genre into his own weird sort of optimistic

thing weird sort of yeah specific he's as much of a genre-bending guy as the other filmmakers that we've discussed, but in a much smaller scale, more focused, low-budget kind of way, which makes him really fascinating. It's very easy to redefine everything if you're doing bombastic, super visual effects, super designed movies.

And Cameron Crowe just came out, this is his first film, 1989, Say Anything, and just boom, he's got a voice. This is his first film, 1989, Say Anything, and just boom, he's got a voice. This guy's got a style. He's got a tone. He's got an approach with actors. There's a sort of rhythm to his movies, you know?

An offbeat rhythm. There's a patter, you know? An offbeat patter. And there's a sort of an earnestness, you know, like a hip earnestness. Right. sort of an earnestness, you know, like a hip earnestness. Right.

Which is sort of counter to the, like, Gen X sort of cynical kind of 80s tone you see, or 90s tone even, you see in movies like Reality Bite. Yes. In movies like that. And his golden age is, let's say, 1989 to 2000, right? Absolutely. The 1990s, one could say. And it's a time where 2000, right? Absolutely. The 1990s. Yes.

Okay. And it's a time where culture is becoming more and more cynical. Yes. And his films get more and more poignant and become more and more sort of culturally connected. Yes. Eventually, I think maybe to their detriment, but for a while there, it's great. He's going against the grain in a good way. It's weird. It's weird.

He simultaneously was going against the grain and tapping into something that was very present. Sure. And his films, you know, were able to, they're kind of these incredible comfort food movies because they're like these warm bath movies that also have an intelligence and an integrity to them. You know? It's not like watching 13 Going on 30,

which is like very well-made film and very entertaining. Right. But, like, Cameron Crowe movies are an easy watch, and they make you feel, like, really fucking good. And they're smart. And they're smart. I mean, I like 13 Going on 30. I do, too.

I think it's a really cute movie. I don't mean to throw 13 Going on 30 out. We can throw it under the bus. But you know what I'm saying? It's not smart. Right. But, like, Cameron Crowe movies, I mean, it's a warm bath thing. It's like he's very insightful and he speaks to certain things in the human condition,

these very specific moments. He gets to these sometimes just a line that cuts through all the bullshit and captures a feeling. He's obviously a very musical guy. Well, he starts out as a music critic before moving into the world of cinema. Almost Famous is... Cinema. Cinema. Almost Famous is a largely autobiographical film, so I don't know how much we can talk about his backstory here because we'll get to that movie eventually.

We'll get to his childhood and his Rolling Stone career there. He was a very young journalist and then followed around bands for Rolling Stone, and then after that he had dropped out of high school. He was now older. He decided to go back to high school because he looked very young. Yeah. And had sort of missed out on a lot of his high school experience. And went, like, undercover as a reporter in a California high school.

He did. And then wrote a nonfiction book about that called Past Times at Ridgeman High. Yes. Which was adapted into the two aforementioned films, Fast Times at Ridgemont High and The Wild Side. Two separate films starring two separate Penn brothers about Southern California high school. True. The Fast Times was huge. Yeah, well, it was a sleeper hit, but a big one.

It landed with a real cultural impact. The Wild Side or whatever, that sank without a trace. Yeah. I own the book Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Was not it. That sank without a trace. Yeah. I own the book Fast Times at Ridgemont High. It's very hard to find, right? Very expensive. Yeah, how is it? Oh, it's really good.

It's a great book. Yeah, actually. Yeah, right. I forgot that I read it. Can you talk about the book a little bit? It's vignette-y, more vignette-y than the movie. Yeah. So every chapter is basically just like a little high school story.

I mean, it keeps repeating the characters and stuff like that. But it's good. It's very smart. It's got like a teeny voice. It's good. It it keeps repeating the characters and stuff like that, but it's good. It's very smart. It's got like a teeny voice. It's good. It is hard to find. It's impossible to find. It's very hard to find.

It costs hundreds of dollars on Amazon. I was once at a relative's house, like an old relative, and saw it on the bookshelf, and I took it. I was like, I've always wanted to read this, and I read it. Yeah, good catch.

And now I have it. Yeah. How similar is it to the film like are the characters sort of direct fictionalizations of the characters in the book or is it a lot of composity there's some composity things but mostly it's it's yeah i mean but is there like a spicoli type character in the book oh there's spicolis in the book there yeah yeah the main characters in the book the rats in the book you know i The main characters in the book. The rats in the book. You know, I do think that one day we should do Amy Heckerling.

I do too. Because one, we don't, there's a lot of female directors out there. Yes. Who have enough films to cover.

Right, exactly. And two, she's fascinating even though she's made some stink bombs. Yeah, but she's made some really important movies as well.

Like Fast Times at Richmond High? Yeah. And Clueless? Mm-hmm. What was the movie we were talking about in the last episode with the Chevy Chase movie that she wished she had never made?

National Lampoon's European Vacation. The third or the fourth Vacation. Yes. Yeah. I think that's the film she made right after Fast Times. That sounds plausible. I think that was her Fast Times follow-up. But Fast Times was a cold hit, but it really, it connected, right?

It connected and it made stars out of, you know, tons of people. Jennifer Jason Leigh, Sean Penn, Forrest Whitaker. Like so many actors came out of it. The Great Judge Reinhold. Macra with Jay Reinhold. I'm sorry? Van Slip-Ons. Yeah, it made stars out of Van Slip-Ons. Yes, exactly. That's why we call Ben

Hosley our finest film critic. Because it made stars out of van slip-ons. Out of van slip-ons. It exposed those shoes to the mainstream, and we're still wearing it to this day. I had a pair of Vans just a few years ago. We should stop the podcast there.

Yeah, we should. That was a great insight. That was good. So what are we at, like 10, 11 minutes? About 15. Oh, wow, Jesus Christ. We've got to get moving. You literally spent so long on fucking Ben's names.

But I mean, look, that's what we've written ourselves into here. Yeah. We're in the pocket now. Fast Times is a great movie. It had a specificity in the characters and was consistently funny without feeling forced. I agree. It's very human set up. But it's also honest and dark.

Yes. And I think it has a brutality that was rare for the genre. Yeah. Yeah. Struck an interesting balance. I don't know if you have your Wikipedia open here, but I do. I do. I do.

I remember after that, the film makes a sort of splash and James L. Brooks goes to Cameron Crowe. Yeah. You're correct. Yeah. Yeah. And says kind of. He liked his voice. Right. He liked your voice. What, you're correct. Yeah. Yeah, and says kind of... He liked his voice.

Right. He liked your voice. What would you want to make next? And Cameron Crowe was like, all right, buddy. Right. He held his arms above his head. Yeah, David's holding his arms above his head.

Fast Times came out... The movie came out in 82, right? Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. And then Wildlife comes out in 84. Yeah. So it takes a while. Yes. It. And then Wildlife comes out in 84. Yeah. So it takes a while.

Yes. It takes a while life. One comedy film. If that. For Say Anything to come out in 1989. Mm-hmm. 1989. The year of my birth.

The year of my brother's birth. Yeah. When were you born exactly? February. So you're, okay, you're right at the top. Yes. Right at the top of 89. Yeah. My brother was December. I you're right at the top. Right at the top of 89. My brother was December. I'm at the tippy top.

But it was produced by James L. Brooks, as I just mentioned. Executive produced. James L. Brooks goes to him and he says, what do you want to make? He's got a few Oscars under his arm as he says this. He's like, yo, I'm James L. Brooks. He's got some Simpsons residuals under the... 89 is when it starts. He's got an empty briefcase

that's about to be filled with Simpsons residuals. How rich do you think James L. Brook is? I feel like I looked it up recently. I think he's over 200 million. He must be so fucking rich. Yeah.

Every Simpsons episode has his name on it. Yeah, I think, I mean, he's in the hundreds of millions. I wonder if he'll ever, we should do him.

Oh, no question. How do you know is sort of the super ultimate I mean he's in the hundreds of millions. I wonder if he'll ever we should do him. Oh no question. How do you know is is sort of the super ultimate blank check rom-com. Yeah the movie cost 120 million dollars. And takes place in three rooms. And is insane.

Yeah it's insane. It's about Ballrod going to prison. Yeah and that's his follow up to Spanglish. Yeah which is also yeah insane. that's a crazy movie yeah James L. Brooks we're doing like no question

we're doing James L. Brooks at some point but James L. Brooks reached out said I like your voice brought him in worked on the script for a while and then when he was done he said why don't you direct it and Cameron Crowe said I don't know how to direct I've never directed before sure and he said if you can write you can direct.

That's what James L. Brooks did. That was James L. Brooks' kind of thing for a while. I mean, it wasn't the exact same model, but some years later, the same sort of process repeated with Wes Anderson. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. James L. Brooks was behind Bottle Rocket. They saw the short film.

They brought them in for like five years, four years, whatever it was, a couple of years. They developed the script with James L. Brooks. And then he produced that film. And he like fought really hard to get Sony to give him a tiny amount of money to make it within the studio system, which is the same thing happened here with Say Anything. Right. He had just done a couple of films at Fox. He said, give this guy a little bit of money. Low risk.

You know, a decent. It was. And as you say, this was a 20th Century Fox. It was made by Gracie Films, which is James L. Brook, but you know as the end of The Simpsons. Up next on American Dad. Sorry, I was doing the full.

No, no. I don't like American Dad. Animation domination continues. $16 million is the budget on this movie. 1989, for a movie that's set in Seattle and mostly set in rooms and cars, that's a decent chunk of change. Maybe like $20, $28 million today. And this is a movie with one star in it. Yeah.

And her name is Bebe Neuer. Yeah. I mean, John Cusack is an actor, and he's been around for a few years. But he was not a star. No, not at all. No. I mean, he'd been in, like, The Sure Thing. Like, he'd been in, like.

Okay, so that was, like, his first big leading vehicle. Yeah. But that film was not wildly successful. He had popped up, obviously, in, like, Sixteen Candles and Better Off Dead and One Crazy Summer and Stand By Me. But, like, these are supporting roles. Was almost cast as Bender in The Breakfast Club. Right, right, yes. He was, like, close to a lot, but these are supporting roles. Was almost cast as Bender in The Breakfast Club. Right, right, yes. He was close to a lot of those iconic high school roles, and he didn't get them.

Hollywood knew who he was, and obviously Joan Cusack at this point is already an Oscar nominee for The Walking Girl, I almost said. The Working Girl. That's crazy. I didn't realize. I was just off on the timeline. The Working Girl is 88? Yeah, it has to be. 87 or 88?

Right, yeah. And this one's saying, no, yes, Joan Cusack was already nominated, already been a cast member on the timeline. Because Working Girl is 88? Yeah, it has to be. 87 or 88? Right? Yeah. And this one's saying, no, yes, Joan Cusack was already nominated, already been a cast member on SNL. Yeah, she was more of a known quantity. She has a bigger part in 16 Candles. I mean, she had made more of a splash. There was also this kind of, there was this Chicago group. I mean, there were like four acting Cusacks, right?

I think only two of them really kind of rose to the water, but there's Ann Cusack as well. Working Girl 88. Yeah. One year earlier. And I think there's one other Cusack who acts. Ann Cusack, I know there probably is. I don't know. I think there's one other one. You know, Valentino Cusack. But they all grew up in Chicago. Valentino Cusack. Great joke. Four comedy points.

Thank you. They all grew up in Chicago working with an acting teacher who was Jeremy Piven's mother. Jeremy Piven. Jeremy Piven. Who's in this movie. Yes. Jeremy Piven. He has to chill. And Shira Piven. He still has to chill. You must chill.

They should play that clip anytime Jeremy Piven does anything. Someone should just type that up. I have it in your keys! Listen, you know, I love being on stage. I love Broadway, but my mercury levels are too high. You must chill! Mr. Selfridge

deserves to be nominated for 15 Emmys. You must chill! Mr. Selfridge. He looks older in Say Anything than he does, like, 25 years later.

Oh, no question. It's the weird Piven thing where he aged backwards, but not really. Yeah. He fake-aged backwards. Yeah. Well, like... He goes from being bald to having some hair to

having a full head of hair. Yeah, he pulled a Benjamin Button. And much like Benjamin Button, the team at ILM had to pull off most of the effects. Fucking Benjamin Button. Yeah. Alright, so, 16 mil. But my point is, the Chicago actors, Piven's mother teaches the Cusacks, teaches the Pivens and some other people who come out of that generation, and they sort of all hit Hollywood hard.

It's like, these are the serious actors. They're serious, stage-trained actors, but they all have this very light touch, this very sort of effortless, behavioral acting style. And they come out strong. And Cusack was sort of in the circles, but he wasn't getting that big shot. No, but here's his shot. Here's his shot. He was not throwing away his shot. He was not throwing away his shot in the immortal world, words of

Waitress the Musical. He was not throwing away. That would have been funnier if I didn't fuck up the word worlds. So he had been in 8 Men Out, you know, and next year he's going to be in Oh, he was already in 8 Men Out then next year was gonna be The Grifters which I feel like is the start

of him being a Hollywood star and then he's in things like you know Bob Roberts and no he's barely in that so how old is he in this film like how old is John Cusack the actor yes assuming it's shot in 88. Yeah.

Fair assumption. He's 22 years old. Okay. And he's 19. And then. Ion Skye. Alongside him is Ion Skye. Ion Skye.

I'll excuse myself. Yeah. Is Ion Skye, who is an English actress, but you wouldn't know it. Really? Well, because her mother's American. She's sort of like. Was she raised in America or in England? I believe she was raised in both.

She was a kid in England, moved to Los Angeles, and attended Immaculate Heart High School and Hollywood School for the Performing Arts. Interesting. But she was only 18. I was going to get... In this film. She feels like a genuine teenager.

And she had just been in River's Edge, and then this year she's also in The Rachel Papers, which I don't know if you've seen that movie. It's an English movie. No. But she's naked in it a lot. Okay, well, congratulations, David. I saw it years ago.

It's an adaptation of a Martin Amis book. It's a decent movie. It's a little silly. Sort of a bawdy comedy. Not to put her on blast, but my sister was talking about Martin Amis' daughter goes to her high school or rather my sister just graduated from high school.

Congratulations. Yeah, congratulations Romley. Martin Amis' daughter went to her high school. Sure. Or she went to Martin Amis' daughter's high school. Who the fuck cares? Fucking, what the fuck is your story? And she was like talking about the girl and she was like, and also her dad is Martin Amis. Like Romley was like name dropping. And you were like, huh? I was like, who? And she was like, oh her dad is martin amos like romley was like name dropping and you were like huh i was like who and she was like oh my god you don't

know who martin amos is martin amos is like this he's like such a famous novelist are you kidding me griffin that's so embarrassing that you don't know who martin amos is and i was like what books is martin amos wrote and she was and she went he's like very famous oh my god so famous yeah does she listen to this podcast no she will never listen to this podcast. Take that, Romilly. Yeah. Anyway, I own Sky. She's a very, very hot property.

I feel like she's like this up-and-coming actress, and Hollywood's got its eye on her. She never panned out. It never connected. I mean, she's around, and she's actually pretty good and stuff, but I feel like she just never became a big deal like John Cusack did. I even feel like mid-2000s she had a low resurgence where she was. When she's in Arrested Development. Oh, I forgot about Arrested Development. I mean, Meet the Veals is one of my favorite Arrested Development episodes,

and it's the one where Jason Bateman, you know, Michael can't explain how she's Mae Whitman's mother, how she's Anne's mother. Yeah. And he keeps saying, well, you gotta lock that down when they talk about getting married young, which is a line, it's one of those Arrested Development lines that's funny the first time, but then they say it so many times that it just becomes, like, impossibly funny.

Anyway. What I was thinking of, she has a really, really strong small part in Zodiac. Yeah. She's very good in that. And I think right around the same time of year two earlier, she plays Drew Barrymore's friend in Fever Pitch. She was starting to like pop up more. Sure. Like that was like 2005 to 2007.

Yeah. I don't know. And then she waned again. I don't know. She's a good actress. She is a good actress. She's good in River's Edge. She's good in this.

She's good in the Rachel Papers. Yeah. She's in Wayne's World. Oh, yes. Briefly. Briefly. She plays Rob L River's Edge. She's good in this. She's good in the Rachel papers. Yeah. She's in Wayne's World. Oh, yes. Briefly. She plays Rob Lowe's girlfriend at the beginning of the film. But that's kind of... That's like a cameo.

She's in one scene, literally. She's the one who turns Rob Lowe onto Wayne's World. The opening of the film is them in bed together. Yeah, when he's flipping around. That's right. And she goes, stop this. These guys are funny. And she explains the appeal of Wayne's World.

She dated Anthony kiedis from the red hot chili peppers oh well that's what married adam horowitz oh i didn't know that and then divorced him i knew that uh so yeah so she's she and she's a painter she wrote a children's book called my yiddish vacation she's doing stuff yeah i like it she married a musician in a hindu wedding ceremony in India in 2009. Uh-huh. So she's up to stuff. But she's sort of, unlike Cusack, she's a teen idol who's probably most famous as a teen idol.

Yeah. Whereas Cusack, who's like teen idol, famous. Movie star, famous. Weird, slightly bloated, crazy person on Twitter, that's his thing now. Yeah. I mean, yeah. That's where he is at now. I hate even talking about it.

He was pretty good in Chirac. Yeah, and I also, I liked him a lot in Maps of the Stars. Haven't seen. Liked him a lot. What does he do in that one? In that. Acts like a big old creep ball.

Well, that's the thing. He's got to play into it now. It's kind of a bummer, though. Yeah. I feel like the last time the movies tried to sell him on us as a regular leading man is Hot Depth Time Machine. Yes.

That was the end of it, right? Yeah, after that he starts doing a lot of like- Or he's with Lizzie Kaplan and you're like, this is fucked up. He's like 20 years older than her. Yeah. This is weird. Yeah. That having been said, in real life at the same time Lizzie Kaplan was dating Matthew Perry.

No, I mean, I'm not saying, I just, it can be a little annoying in a movie when that's the dynamic. And I just want to make it clear. That's all. People can date who they want to date. I think both of those things are equally gross. I pass no moral judgment. I would date Matthew Perry and I wouldn't date John Cusack.

It's weird. Now, at your current age, you would date Matthew Perry? I would. I would. I would date Matthew Perry. I think that's a big age gap. I think you're very different points in your life. I don't date Matthew Perry? I would. I would. I would date Matthew Perry. I think that's a big age gap. I think you're very different points in your life.

I don't know how much you'd have to relate on. I would just, I'd like to talk to him about tennis. You're going through very different things. And what's Tom Lennon really like? Double takes. Yeah, double takes. I mean, that is, he could really school you on that. 20 minutes. Okay, but here's my question.

Do you want to date Matthew Perry a little bit casually, or do you want to be dating Matthew Perry? Do you know what I'm saying? I want to be dating him. I don't want to date him casually. Okay, see, I would go on a couple dates with him. I would not get serious with Matthew Perry. Here's something you don't know,

and we should move off this, but I really want to tell you. Matthew Perry is indescribably rich. He probably has a lot of nice houses. I don't know that. I'd go hang out in those houses. Yeah, but if you're going to marry rich, marry James L. Brooks.

Oh, I'd love to marry him. He's probably happily married. Yeah. He strikes me as a guy who's happily married. Okay. Oh, he definitely is. Kenny and Jim? Kenny and Jim on Twitter?

He's probably married to some nice person. Yeah, I think they've been married for 82 years. Right, exactly. And it's like they just eat strawberries. They just hang out. Okay, quick sidebar. They go to the farmer's market. Quick sidebar. If you could marry any cast member from friends who would it be me yeah swimmer ben

lisa kudrow that's my answer too yeah i've got no beef with that but she's happily married not to be heteronormative but it's just i'd go i'd go kudrow then then i'd say leblanc is my number two yeah he's fine i would i would i would happily marry leblanc i wouldn't want to marry aniston Kudrow, then I'd say LeBlanc is my number two. Yeah, he's fine. I would happily marry LeBlanc. I wouldn't want to marry Aniston just because it feels like a lot of tabloid pressure and stuff. I don't want to be part of a narrative. I was about to say that.

You get put into a narrative. You get put into a narrative. I just want to live my life. I don't want people reading into it as a plot point. I feel like Schwimmer would be fun, though. Schwimmer's great alright here's some things about Schwimmer

one he plays my favorite character in Friends Ross is easily my favorite friend he plays my favorite character on The People vs. O.J. Simpson he plays my favorite character on The People vs. O.J. Simpson he goes to the theater a lot

I have been at two separate Broadway plays yeah or off Broadway plays and seen him in the audience he does a lot of theater too

and he does theater he directs yeah I think he's kind of smart. Jewish. My mom would be happy. Yeah. And you know, maybe he learned to cook for Feed the Beast so maybe he's got some cooking tricks up his sleeve.

Doesn't like Watto though. That would be a problem. Doesn't like Watto. Is married to someone younger than all three of us. Yeah, I know. I know. He's married to like a 25 year old. Yeah, I know. Anyway, that was a fun little So he's the one we could probably Pull in

I mean we're in the right age zone For swimming It was a fun little adventure We could go swimming If we wanted to Ooh Hey Yo

Alright End of the podcast People are like Oh my god Talk about saying anything Great movie Great movie So I've seen this movie

Seven or eight times I've seen it I own it I like this movie Oh really Okay Yeah I I've seen this movie seven or eight times. I own it. I like this movie. Okay. Yeah. I hadn't seen it in a while. And, you know, you worry, especially with like a movie that was very generationally appropriate and very teen focused. And a movie I liked as a teen.

You worry, uh-oh, am I going to watch this as a grown-up and think that it's lame or think that it's sort of like notice flaws that I didn't see before? And I actually think I liked it a little bit more. Yeah, I had a similar thing. This is the third time I have seen this movie, okay? The first time I saw it, Entertainment Weekly came out with a list of the top 25 best love stories in film. You were, by the way, you were about two months old when this film was released in April 1999.

Yeah. Okay. So EW comes out with Best Teen Movies? Yeah. Yeah. I think about 2003, 2004. I mean, I was 14, 15.

It wasn't Teen Movies. It was Best Love Stories. Best Love Movies. Okay, sorry. Right? Mm-hmm. And it was number one. And I was like,

I know people like that movie, but I'm surprised they'd put a teen movie as number one over like Casablanca, over that movie but I'm surprised they'd put a teen movie as number one over like Casablanca over whatever whatever whatever right?

Mm-hmm. I was very surprised by that and I went like maybe it's There's not enough fucking in Casablanca that's why. That's why.

Especially in the backseat of a car. I rented it with my mother who also They probably fucked on Sam's piano in Casablanca

late at night. That's how they wrote She was like playing against Sam on Sam's piano. In Casablanca. Late at night. That's how they wrote. She was like playing against Sam. That's how they wrote You Must Remember This. It was accidentally the butt cheeks hitting against. Bogart's butt cheeks. Wait a second.

Let's stop fucking for a second. Yeah, that's what he sounded like. I think we got a hit. Yep. It's like he's in the room. Humphrey Bogart. Bogie himself. Is this an episode of You Must Remember This?

Bogie, Bogie, Bogie. Okay, all right. Anyway. So, best love stories. By the way, this episode was written and narrated by Griffin Newman. I love Karina Longworth. I love her podcast. Me too.

She certainly hits those Ts very hard. Really hard. Crisp Ts. Yeah. She hits those Ts harder than Bogart's butt cheeks were hitting the piano keys. You know what I'm saying? Play it again, Sam. Play it again, Sam. Doesn't say that in the movie. Yeah. She hits those teas harder than Bogart's butt cheeks were hitting the piano keys. You know what I'm saying? Play it again, Sam. Play it again, Sam.

Doesn't say that in the movie. No. Never says it. We say it on this podcast. That's our new catchphrase. Play it again, Sam. When people say play it again, Sam. Hashtag play it again, Sam.

From here on out, when people say play it again, Sam, go, oh, you listen to Blank Check? Yeah. It's about this podcast. You have to promise me. Tweet at us every day. If you're a real fan of this podcast, every day at 10 in, oh, you listen to Blank Check? Yeah, it's about this podcast. You have to promise me. Tweet at us every day. If you're a real fan of this podcast, every day at 10 in the morning, you have to tweet hashtag PlayItAgainSam at me and Griffin. Yeah, and also include Barack Obama because here's the thing.

He's almost out of office. Yeah, include Barack Obama, not at POTUS. No, not Barack Obama. No, the personal account because he's not going to be running the POTUS account anymore come next year, and we want him as the third friend. Oh my god. Let's throw this out there right now. That would be so good.

That would be so good. Let's throw this out there. We're not accepting a third host. Absolutely not. Except for the 44th president of the United States, President Barack Obama. He could be the third host. He'd be like Griffin.

Producer Ben, a.k.a. the Ben Ducer. Oh, hey, what's up? A.k.a. the poet, the laureate. We've got an hour and ten minutes or so. A.k.a. the Haas. We forgot the Haas. Oh, that's a good one. I'd like to say to the American people,

a hearty hello, fennel. Which is worse, my Obama or my Bogart? Your Bogart. Your Bogart was worse. Bogart was worse. Your Bogart was terrible. Your Bogart was just a voice. It didn't sound like a voice.

It was just like, I'm Humphrey Bogart. I'm Humphrey Bogart. That was Peter Falk. No, that was pretty good. I'm Humphrey Bogart. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What that was pretty good I'm Humphrey Bogart Right Yeah What about this one I'm

Humphrey Bogart As Pacino as Bogart I think I know who that is Pacino Hell yeah Good for now What about this I'm Humphrey Bogart

That's Watto As Humphrey Bogart I mean Humphrey Bogart's role in the Petrified Forest Is somewhat Watto. As Humphrey Bogart. I mean, Humphrey Bogart's role in The Petrified Forest is somewhat Watto-esque. Yeah. A little 30s movie jam for you guys. Yeah. You motherfuckers want to jam with that?

Next episode, The Petrified Forest. The year is 1989. 1989. Griffin Newman is two months old, and playing in the multiplexes is Say Anything. I was about to turn three. My mother was pregnant, but I may not have known it yet. You're leaving something out. What?

Ellipses. What do you mean? Oh, the title is Say Anything Ellipses. Say Anything dot dot dot. Yeah. Thank you. My mom doesn't see it when it comes out because she's got a fucking new baby. Yeah.

And then she doesn't catch up with it later. Yeah. And then when this Entertainment Weekly list comes out, both of us go, huh, never seen that. Number one, we should rent that. So baby on it. Yeah. And then she doesn't catch up with it later. And then when this Entertainment Weekly list comes out, both of us go, huh, never seen that. Number one, we should rent that.

So you rent it, you watch it together? We watch it together and both of us go, oh, it's okay. Interesting. Surprise number one. I mean,

you know, just because we, I took Entertainment Weekly list very seriously. And especially at that time, they were like, I mean, I had the Entertainment Weekly

like top 25 cult movies issue. No, I get you. And that was like my Bible and I just read through that and I rented all those movies, they were like, I mean, I had the Entertainment Weekly like top 25 cult movies issue. No, I get you. And that was like my Bible. And I just read through that and I rented all those movies. And I was like, I get cult movies now. And so I saw a lot of movies that I had seen and loved ranked lower than say anything. I watched it. We went, that's pretty good.

We both love Cusack, my mom and I. He was like one of our movie stars. My mom and I really like feel like a mutual kind of ownership of the sack, you know? I also love John Cusack. And always had. Yeah. He was also an early favorite of mine. And we watched it.

I thought it was okay. And then I'd say about six or seven years later, 2021, Living Alone, Say Anything comes out on Blu-ray for whatever it was, the 20th anniversary. Sure. Yeah, it would have been 20. was, the 20th anniversary. Sure. Yeah, it would have been 20. It was the 20th anniversary. Yeah. The Blu-ray comes out, and I rent it, and I go, you know, I may have been too young,

give it another shot. And I watch it, and I went, yeah, I like it a little more than I did last time, but I still don't like it as much as most people do. Watched it two nights ago. I think I finally get it. That's good. And I don't know if it's just that previously I was too close to some of it. Do you know what I'm saying?

I think he makes a lot of his films function best as sort of like memory films. Okay. In the same way that Linklater movies do. There's so much about like reliving a time and a place in your life. Yeah. Where sometimes if you're in the middle of it they're not as sharp as if you're watching it from the perspective that he had when he was making it i think that's true i think he's very good at putting you in the consciousness of a character yeah so this movie

is very much told from the perspectives of its two teenage protagonists. They're both about 18 years old. And it has their energy, I think, which is this weird sort of mix of super slow, laconic energy and then sudden bursts of crazy hormonal passion. And it veers wildly between these two things. Lloyd Dobler. Lloyd Dobler is John Cusack's character.

And Diane Court and Diane Court Diane Court is Ion Sky's character Ion Sky I don't actually know how you say your name I always thought it was

Ion I might be wrong and I gotta tell you guys Frasier's dad looking young well this I'll talk about him for a second

so John Mahoney plays Diane's dad and just Ben for your clarification that's the way they did that, effects-wise, is that this movie was made before Frasier. Oh my god. Yeah. So just to give you a little Mahoney history.

So they were able to save money on not Benjamin Buttoning him or not Jeremy Pivening him. I guess that makes sense. You were talking about Chicago. Mahoney is a Steppenwolf Theater man, which is the Chicago, this famous Chicago theater company. Joe Malkovich came out of it. The great Gary Sinise. Gary Sinise is the co-founder. And so he had been a big deal there.

He'd taken his work to Broadway. He'd won a Tony for the House of Blue Leaves. He was this big theater actor. He had barely been in any movies by the time he's in Sanity. He'd been in 10 Men. He'd been in 8 Men Out. Which was a Chicago movie. Yeah, a John Sayles movie.

And he's going to be in Barton Fink in a couple years. He's going to be in the Hudsucker Proxy. The Coens liked him. He's in Reality Bites. He's like floating around. And then in 93 he's in Frasier and then it's sort of like he's the Frasier guy. But he's like a great actor and I feel like he gets

Who became Frasier's dad. Yeah, he gets pegged as Frasier. You know, he's great in Frasier. It's a performance. He's very good. And he made tens of millions of dollars. He made so much money. But it is that sitcom curse. A little bit. A little bit, yeah. In the same way that I'm going to be stuck as

you know... Intern? No, I was trying to make a better reference, but I couldn't remember the name of the character. I don't remember. I was going to say

that Assistant, I played on Political Animals. You don't even remember what the name of your character was? I can't remember. I can't even do it. Well, there you go.

I think maybe it's rick as well is that was it also rick it might have been which character of frazier would you guys date which character in frazier what i did 100 uh dr frazier crank baby knew her lilith yeah well she's a cheers character come on is she on frazier no she's on frazier but i mean you know she's she's more of a cheers. She never got her own Frasier. I mean, you can count her. Who was the sassy producer? You know, what the fuck is her name? Perry Gilpin.

Roz? Roz, there you go. Yeah. Or, you know, Eddie. Eddie the dog? Yeah, Moose. Who was in The Artist? The dog's name was Moose.

Yep. It was actually two dogs. Moose was the second. Oh, bling. You know what I'll say about Bebe Neuwirth because she's in this movie, Say Anything? For one scene. I watched this movie with Joanna and she was like, is she at the party too? It's a weird scene

because she's the guidance counselor but she's at the teen party. It's weird. You know what my biggest takeaway was from her appearance in this film? You wanted to make out with her? Yep. She's gorgeous. Yep. I'll take as much of that as you got. Did you watch the Tony Awards? I did. Yeah, she, you know,

she did a number. She did Chicago. She did a number from Chicago. She looked great. You know what was fun about that number? That number happened two hours and 50 minutes into a ceremony that was supposed to be three hours long and they still had five awards to get. They only had three, but it was still crazy. They had the two acting musical leads and best musical to go.

And she was like, Chicago, the revival. It's been running for 20 years. And we're all like, okay. I mean, great. Yeah, we know that because you do a Chicago number every year. Get with the show. And all that jazz. Who of the main Chicago cast would you fuck?

In the movie. In the motion picture Chicago? There's only one answer. Lucy Liu. She's not in the movie, is she? Lucy Liu's in the film Chicago. What does she do again? Gets arrested.

Oh yeah, right at the beginning. Who's your one answer? Razzle dazzle. I want him to razzle dazzle me. He's your one answer? Here. Razzle Dazzle. I want him to Razzle Dazzle me. He's not my type. I guess your type is not handsome people. No. Well, I'd go Lucy Liu number one.

I'd go number two, Taye Diggs. Yeah. Yeah. He's really hot. He looks good in that movie. And then I'd go. Baranski, number three of the bullet. All right. Let's keep going. Riley's number three. He's a tender lover. Who And then I'd go... Baranski, number three of the bullet. All right, let's keep going.

Riley's number three. He's a tender lover. Who? Riley. Oh, John C. Riley would work harder because he doesn't have his looks to lie back on. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mr. Cellophane. He's Mr. Cellophane. What's the movie we're talking about today? Say Anything. Oh, right. 1989, directed by Cameron Crowe, starring John Cusack, Arionne Skye, and John Mahoney. Three powerhouse performances. Let's talk about the plot of this film.

It's tough to talk about because Cameron Crowe does not make plot-driven films. That's become like a cornerstone of this show. As we go through the movie and we sort of summarize the events of the film and then come up with sort of notes and opinions and insights as we're going through it. But these films are very sort of... They're shaggy. And they're kind of anecdotal.

They're a series of little events, little moments. Yeah, absolutely. They're shaggy in a charming way. This movie starts out mid-conversation. Yes. Lloyd Dobler, played by John Cusack, sitting with A character named Corey

Played by Corey Flood The great Lily Taylor She's so good in this movie So good in this movie Oh my god And then the third character Is played by

James L. Brooks' daughter Oh really Yeah She's adorable Amy Brooks Amy Brooks As DC Yeah she's really cute

But she doesn't have much to do She has that one moment Where she's like Um I wanted to say something You're always talking over me And like what is it And she's really cute, but she doesn't have much to do. She has that one moment where she's like, I wanted to say something. You're always talking over me. I'm like, what is it? And she's like, I forgot.

Yeah. It's a good little moment. And it's like a good little encapsulation of the crow thing, which is like everyone's a person. Like he makes these movies. Yes, absolutely. Where like everyone is sort of a fully realized character and has their own victories and their own failures and aren't just there to prop up anybody else.

But the opening of this film starts mid-conversation. He's sitting around with these two girls. Yeah, and it's kind of a part of his character. His best friends are girls. Yeah. And I think in the late 80s, this is enough of an unusual concept. Definitely. Yeah, this guy is not very particularly typical, but he's not like alternative exactly.

He just like kind of has the kind of energy where he's best friends with these cool girls. But they don't push it too hard. No. You never see him really being friendly with other guys in the movie. The guy he seems closest to is Eric Stoltz's character. But there's the one scene where he's like, maybe the problem is that I'm friends with girls. Right. And I should be friends with guys. And he goes to talk to the guys and they're just like troglodytes. I love that scene. But there's the one scene where he's like, maybe the problem is that I'm friends with girls. Right. And I should be friends with guys.

And he goes to talk to the guys and they're just like troglodytes. I love that scene. We'll get to that scene. Those guys suck, including Pibbs. But he's talking to Lays. I think you're right that this was kind of a novel concept at the time.

Slightly, just slightly. And then, you know, after that, I think partly because of this film, it becomes more of a trope to have like the sensitive guy with the best friend who is a girl. Sure. But the whole film is setting up to he's in love with the wrong person

and he really should be in love with his best friend at the end of the movie. A classic rom-com trope. This is not what this is. Same thing doesn't do that. He's just a guy who's friends with a gal. I think what I like about this movie. Couple gal. Couple gals.

And Lily Taylor had just been in, the year before, one of my favorite movies to just watch over and over again. Can you guess? It was really her the year before, one of my favorite movies to just watch over and over again. Can you guess? It's really her only movie before this one. Dogfight? Mystic Pizza. Oh, right. Yeah.

Which she's so good in. Dogfight was later. In Mystic Pizza, she's kind of the wild character, which is funny. Correct. Anyway, what I like about this versus what I think is the common teen movie of the 80s, which is the John Hughes movie, is that it is less factional. Cusack isn't a type. His friends aren't a type.

Diane is more of a type because she's like the goody two shoes. But I like that when they go to the party, which is my favorite scene in the movie, obviously it's an extended series of scenes right at the start, it's not like a popularity thing. It's not like a weird weird tense place no it's just a bunch of energy and sexy things and just kind of people being like whoa we're teenagers ah you know

like just behaving stupidly yeah and there are villains like there's joe but i mean he's a moron he's not like he's he's just stupid yeah you know which is like mostly teenagers are mean to each other because they are fucking stupid and they wanted to have, which is like mostly teenagers are mean to each other because they are fucking stupid. And they wanted to have sex, which is a real problem. There's the... Anyway, I like saying it. It just upends so many tropes. There's the great genre noir quote that...

I'm gonna fuck it up, but... Great French director? The great French director. His quote was something like... I think it's in The Grand Illusion. La Grande Illusion. Or maybe it's in Rules of the Game. A character says, I believe maybe his character that he plays in Rules of the Game says, the great tragedy of the world is that everyone has their reasons. But maybe I'm wrong and maybe the Nazi says that in Grand Illusion.

What is the ocean but a multitude of drops? Yes. Anyway, go on. But that line always hit me really hard. The great tragedy of the world is that everyone has their reasons. Great line. I feel like, you know, Cameron Crowe makes films that are on their face kind of low stakes. There aren't do or die moments.

It's people trying to define themselves, right? Especially this one. Right. They're mostly movies of like internal self-exploration. And if there is some externalized goal of what they're trying to achieve in their career in their relationship it's just about them trying to hit a different place in their life or and but also it's like when plot things happen they happen because crazy things happen in people's lives out of nowhere sometimes right or because someone

makes one dumb decision and that's i think that's what cameron crowe eventually loses track of but like that's how his early movies feel where it's just suddenly that's what Cameron Crowe eventually loses track of but like that's how his early movies feel where it's just suddenly there's a big plot development yeah and you're like oh this almost feels jarring but it's like you know but he's trying to capture how life works sometimes shit just happens right yeah where it's like boop boop boop boop and then suddenly just someone comes up to you and goes like this amazing or terrible thing just happened boom boom boom and you go back to boom boom boom boom boom, boom, boom, boom. But this opening scene, right? I forget what the first couple lines are.

You really want to concentrate on this opening scene. It is a great scene. I agree. There are a couple opening lines I was trying to write down, but I think I missed them, that are happening over sort of the opening titles of the film. And then when we cut into the bedroom and we see them there, because it starts with like a skyline shot. Seattle?

Right. One of the first things that John Cusack, I believe the first thing his character says, because the dialogue we're hearing before that is Taylor and Brooks. He goes, I'm going to ask at Dianne Court. Right. The movie gets straight to the point. That's what it's about. It's about him wanting to ask her out. Right. And that's what his character is about

for the whole movie. Right. I feel like a lot of movies, he would have other goals or problems. But as he keeps being asked like what he wants to do with his life and he keeps replying half jokily like I want to be with your daughter. I want to be with Diane. But that's actually true. Yeah. That's basically what he's got right now. Yeah.

He knows they'd be good together. He likes her. Yeah. And he wants to be with her. That's what he wants to do. Well, I just like that the two of them, the two friends, not hashtag the two friends, but his two friends. Move on.

Let's make it clear. They're not edging in our territory. They're immediately like, Diane Court, like she's like a brain. Yeah, she's a brain. She doesn't socialize. She's valedictorian. Yeah. When you think about this, he goes, what about the movies?

Would the movies be a good second date? And they go, you haven't had a first date. And he's like, yeah, we did. We sat together. We sat at the food court. We sat together for a little while and we talked. Right. Now, he thinks this happened.

We never see this. She just seems to have no memory of it. Yeah. But it definitely happened for him. He calls it later our controversial first date. Yes. But did you ever have this in high school where you just one day look at a person who's obviously existed for a while and just go like, oh, I'm going to have a crush on her now.

Kind of. Now, I don't know if the listeners know this. I went to a boys' school. Oh, boy. So it's a different vibe. There's less of that. Or should I say, oh, boys. Oh, boys.

Oh, boys. So when you meet a girl at a boys' school, and I met plenty of girls, and I have my romances and all this. Okay, I'm all bragged. But it's more like when you meet a girl, you're a little more conscious of like, ooh, a girl. Okay. Because all I see all day at school are boys. Like, here's a girl.

Yeah. Like, I should think about her like a little more consciously than just like, duh, you know. Yeah. I guess this thing I'm getting at. I mean, I'm a heterosexual man. Right. So that's how my brain works. That's all.

Yeah. Not to be, you know, like not everyone at the boys school is thinking this way. Put it that way. Put heterosexual man. Right. So that's how my brain worked. That's all. Yeah. Not to be, you know, like not everyone at the boys' school was thinking this way. Put it that way. Put it that way. Put it. There were some gay boys at this school. Right. Yeah.

The way you'd put it. That's how I'd put it. Yeah. Right. It is the rules of the game, your quote. Oh, thank you. Okay. And I think it is Akav.

It is his character. You're correct. You're correct. I always, I get, I get scared. You get tripped up on your own anxieties. Because I don't want to misattribute it, but that's what I kind of knew in my heart. It was that character. I always, I get, I get scared. You get tripped up on your own anxieties. I don't want to misattribute it, but that's what I kind of knew in my heart.

It was that character. Anyway. So he wants to take Diane out on a date. Oh no, but what I was going to say was, I distinctly remember in high school,

like one day, walking past a lady who had like, you know, I'd been in the same building with for years. And just like, nothing changed externally.

It wasn't like she came in with some fucking Ally Sheedy makeover, and I was like, I never noticed you before. Sure, which is more of the Hughes crappy. Right. I would just go like, oh, I could have a crush on that person. Sure. You know?

And then I would just the next day decide like, I have a crush on that person. How am I going to talk to her? Okay, so you maybe had a slightly obsessive or fixated thing, personality type. Yeah. Yeah, listeners of this show might be surprised to hear that I obsess and fixate on things. So you maybe had a slightly obsessive or fixated thing, personality type. Yeah. Yeah.

Listeners of this show might be surprised to hear that I obsess and fixate on things. Oh, boy. But much like Lloyd Dobler, I had like a lot of female friends and I'd go to them and I'd go like, how do I talk to her? What would be the thing? Sure. You would workshop. Is she going to be at this party? What do I do?

You know? But what I like about this movie is that the obsession is contained to the first scene. Yes. And then he calls her on the phone. Yeah. So we see him go home. He lives with his sister. He lives with his older sister who has a kid.

Played by the great Joan Cusack. Yes. And the kid is played by some kid. Yes. And he likes to go, yeah! The kid's, he's very kiddy. Yeah, he's a real kid. He's a real kid. He's a real kid.

He's a real 80s kid. Yeah, John Cusack rules in this movie. She's the best. So good. And I love that first scene where they just graduated. The first scene where you see her,

he just graduated and she comes in apologizing, like, I'm sorry that I couldn't be there. And he's like, oh, don't worry about it. And she's like,

oh, but you're graduating and I wish I could have been there. And then immediately she's on his case about something, like immediately. And he's like, will you back off? And she's on his case about something like immediately. And he, he's like,

will you back off? And she's like, yeah, I'm sorry. And he's like, you used to be cool. And she's like, I did used to be cool.

It's this like whole range of emotions in five minutes. She's his big sister with a kid who was abandoned by her husband. They live together now while their parents are stationed in Munich. His parents are in the military. At least his father. They're in Germany right now. You don't really hear anything about the mom but the dad is in the military and wants John Cusack to join now that he's graduated.

Right. And isn't there a line that alludes to the fact that he had spent some time stationed with them and decided he wanted to be back in the States and now he has to live with his sister. He spent some time in London. That's why you were thinking of that. Because she's, Diane's about to go london but he's also been there right right because he knows cool london places to recommend her cool yeah totally bangers and mash yeah in between these scenes right there is the scene of john mahoney and i own sky in the car mahoney is so good this is an unbelievable

performance it's it's this is one of the things for me that like clicked this time watching it that i don't think i was old enough the two previous times to really understand that character. Like, I understood his actions and what he was doing. Sure. But it always was like, oh, so he's just a shitty guy. And I watch this movie now as, like, somewhat of an adult. Sure. And I totally understand the fear that drove him to do these shitty things.

No, exactly. And the delusions, the way he lies to himself and justifies his actions. That's what I think the movie gets at from the very first scene where she is going through her speech, the valedictorian speech that she's going to give. And she has this lame joke, which is like, I've seen our future and I just have one thing to say. Go back. Is that it?

Yes. And he's just like, ah, oh, that's great. That's great, sweetie. Go back. Like, and it's just like like there's no one on earth who would think that was that funny no he doesn't think that's that funny but he's he's thrown it all his eggs in her basket yeah and like we're just getting it immediately and like obviously this is the mistake he's made he thinks his daughter is incredibly special which i think

the film also argues she is totally yeah. And he is so blindly afraid of... Anything going wrong in her life. Of her, for any reason, not being able to live up to her potential. And he has, like, they've basically, like, planned... It's kind of like the Gilmore Girls dynamic, but much more intense.

It's like, since she was a kid, the plan has just been, like, you're gonna be valedictorian. You're gonna, like, get this fellowship. You're gonna go to the best school. You're gonna get the best jobs. You're going to get this fellowship. You're going to go to the best school. You're going to get the best jobs. You're going to be on think tanks. You're just going to be an important person

because you're so smart. And she has this very close relationship with her father. He is also her best friend. They can say anything to each other. And he administers an old folks home where she helps out. But I like the sense that it's not

that he's sort of this controlling kind of stage dad. That's what I love about it. He's not controlling. You think early on when she comes home late from the party, he's going to chew her out. He doesn't. He's just like, hey. He loves her unconditionally. And she's like, I'm glad I went.

And he's like, great. He knows how smart and talented she is. Right. He is terrified of anything getting in the way, Any common thing that could trip up any kid. What if she starts drinking? What if she gets in with the wrong crowd? What if she socially becomes obsessed with this? He wants her to stay on the path to achieve some sort of

greatness. I also like that the greatness isn't specific. He's not going, you gotta be a lawyer or a doctor. It's just he knows she's gonna be important. You have ability. And I want that to be placed somewhere important and not diluted at all in the way that can often happen in high school exactly um and she is you know very dorky and that she really just cares about uh this sort of stuff and

has no social life whatsoever but she's not socially inept no no she's not socially inept. No. No. She's more socially untested. Yeah. And because she's been, like, and they mentioned earlier, sacrificing her social life basically to go to classes and, like, do all this extra stuff. Yeah. So she's valedictorian. She makes the speech. She makes the speech. The joke doesn't go over well, but she makes a speech and then she seems to kind of go off script and she says like, I've considered the future and I'm really scared.

Yeah. Which seems like an honest admission and not like a phony. Right. Which is a nice moment. And then Lloyd calls her up. Well, Lloyd photobombs her. He does the original photobomb. He does the photobomb.

He goes to Corey and he goes, take a picture. I'm going to stand behind her. And then turns just at the right moment. I feel like we should move. I agree. I just want to give him credit for being the original photobomber. Okay. Yes. Yes. Okay. Hashtag the original photobomber. Okay. Yes.

Yes. Okay. Hashtag the original photobomber. No. He calls her up. Hashtag play it against him. He calls her up on the phone. Yeah.

And like doesn't even really wear her down. Now, I mean, I feel like this is what I was afraid of re-watching this movie. Yeah. Is you re-watch some of this stuff that was romantic when you were younger and then when you're older,

you're like, this is about a guy who won't stop pestering some poor woman until she finally falls in love with him i got i had a big conversation last night with uh my best friend sophie and hawk and i've referenced a lot on this about this sort of thing in the media of like all these uh great romances being about a guy who won't give up trying to win over the girl your your romance is problematic or whatever right but it sets this very weird precedent where it's like well eventually he wins her over and it's fine because of the one time that she relents yeah sure but it's also like the line you're presenting there well i think people

now just think like it's set this like bad kind of example for people younger people where they're like oh but i thought it's like if i just like bothered someone enough maybe that would work or it set this bad kind of example for people, younger people, where they're like, oh, but I thought it's like if I just bothered someone enough, maybe that would work. Or like, I'm a nice guy, you're supposed to take me seriously because I'm a quote-unquote nice guy, or whatever. All these sort of bad habits, bad things,

bad things in the culture. But Cusack just has this, he's got such a light touch. Yeah, I think this movie mostly threads the needle. The one weird thing he does, honestly, is play In Your Eyes on the stereo for her. Like, that's the one time when he's, like, borderline bothering her. But I'd say it's more weird, like, come on, you're a weird guy. Like, I don't think it's too pestering. No, me too.

I mean, the movie pulls it off. If there was a sequence where you saw him do that every morning, like six mornings in a row, you'd be like, okay, fucking take it down a notch, Doblin. Right, or if it was like the awful movie The Last Kiss where Zach Braff's big sacrifice after he cheats on his fiance or whatever is that he just sits outside her house all day and night for days and days. house all day and night for days and days and days or the least romantic moment in any movie ever which is when um uh walking dead uh has the note cards for kira knightley yeah yeah oh god i mean i hate love actually so much andrew lincoln andrew lincoln yes yes yeah the to me you are perfect rick grimes yeah the walking dead and he played the character of Rick Grimes in Love Actually. Yes. Yeah. And Keira Knightley played Anna Karenina. Yes. And Chiwetel Ejiofor played Baron Mordo.

What was his name in Serenity? It's like The Inspector, but it's not that. I've never seen Serenity. He's so good. Yeah. You know what? That guy, really fucking good actor. Oh my God.

He's an incredible actor. The operative. That's his name. Okay. In The Serenity. I saw him in something recently that was like so whatever, and he was so above and beyond it. Did you see The Secret in Their Eyes?

No. Was he good in that? No, I didn't see it. I was just wondering. Oh, you know what he's fucking great in? What? And it's like a fucking throwaway of a movie? Triple Nine.

Oh, cool. Right. Yeah, I haven't seen that. With everybody? With Winslet as the Jewish mobster. She also rules in that. Although. Putting her next to Gal Gadot.

Makes like it's a little tricky because Gal Gadot is Israeli. Yeah, she is. And Kate Winslet is. Oh, sure. Is a milky English woman. Right. And she like plays it well. And then anytime Gal Gad is standing next to her,

you're like, ooh, boo, boo, boo. Did you see him in something recently? Yeah, I guess we're watching something. The Martian? He's so good in The Martian. Z for Zachariah? He's literally great in everything. I don't ever think I've seen a bad performance.

Z for Zachariah? No, but he is very good in that. Salt? You know what movie he's good in? Who is Salt? I think Angelina Jolie is Salt, yeah. Red Belt? Oh, he fucking rules in Red Belt.

You know I go to the mat for Red Belt, right? But you know I love Red Belt, right? Inside Man? He's great in Inside Man. He's great, and I rewatched that recently, actually, on TV. You know what movie he rules in? What? He is great as the only black man

ever in the history of New York City in a Woody Allen film. Yes. He's pretty good in that. He's fucking great in that movie. Have there ever been

black people in Woody Allen movies? Melinda, Melinda, by the way. You said Miranda, Miranda. Oh, so sorry. I was thinking of my favorite Sex and the City character, Miranda. Right, and the name's so nice

you gotta name it twice. Correct. I think he's the only one. I'm trying to think of black name it twice. Correct. I think that's I think I'm trying to think of like black actors and Woody Allen. I think he's the only one. He's made so many movies that can't be true. I mean of course it can be Woody Allen. A couple a couple of bad things in that career there

but I just wonder. I cannot think of another one of prominence. I will say that I'm sure there are a couple like day player one liners. I cannot think of another substantial character. Yeah that's, I mean, and just even though I expect nothing of Woody Allen and don't really even want to talk about him, just hearing that and then considering the fact that he's made like 40 movies.

Yeah. It kind of takes your breath away. And that like 70% of them take place in New York City. New York City. Yeah. Anyway. Chiwetel rules in that movie. Chewie!

In a part that was originally written for, do you know this? That role was written for Robert Downey Jr. and he was uninsurable. Interesting. So they cast Chiwetel Ejiofor instead. In Red Belt? Which one?

In Melinda Melinda. Oh, Melinda Melinda. Cool. Yeah. There you go. Okay. All right. We're really off track. Say Anything. Say Anything, 1989 American film, 20th Century Fox. Yeah. There you go. Okay. Alright. We're really off track.

Say anything. Say anything. 1989 American film. 20th Century Fox. They go on the date. She goes. Huh? Dot dot dot. Yes. Sorry Ben. They go on the date. They go to the party. Yeah. It's not even really a date. He says it's a date but it's you know they go to the party. The phone call's good. I mean there's like he says to her like hey I don't know if you remember me at the

food court and she clearly doesn't. She goes okay. And he goes so I want to know if you want to go out sometime court and she clearly doesn't she goes okay and he goes so I want to know if you want to go out sometime and she says like I'm just really busy. She says I'm busy she gives him a couple blow offs like I'm busy that day I'm busy that day and he's like well what about this party tonight like let's do the party tonight. Yeah and he

says you know I heard you're moving to London I've actually spent some time in London my parents are stationed there some hot tips some places you could go to so even if just for the London tips, he's really charming. And he's not pushy. He's not pushy, but also I think he's appealing to a different thing, which is that she feels disconnected from her class. Yeah.

She doesn't know any of her peers, really. Right. And so he's giving her an opportunity to at least mingle a little bit with the people she went to school with for four years. Yeah. Or whatever. So he picks her up. They go to this party.

Yep. He's very cool to Mahoney. He's like, I don't really drink because I'm a kickboxer. Kickboxing is part of the future. He's so fucking good in this movie. He's so good in this movie. This is the Cusack Bible, this movie. This is, I feel like, where so many of his mannerisms began.

Right? Well, and i'll tell you this like you know a little less sometimes they're used better sometimes used worse you know i'm not saying this is his best performance but it's it's kind of the beginning of his performances a little less now because i'm a little bit older a little bit older but for like most of the last decade i've been fucking auditioning for like shitty high school movies right or college movies or movies with young very young men right and so often in the breakdown the thing

they write in parentheses is think a young John Cusack type right they throw that as the archetype as the guy who's sort of smarter than everyone in the room but isn't cocky is very sensitive but has a certain slickness to him you know sure and has like really sharp kind of comic timing.

Yeah. And what always happens is when I go, oh, they want like a John Cusack thing. And I'm not saying I'm fucking going in there and nailing it, right? But what always happens is you go in and they go, hey, can you make it like a little bigger? Make it a little broader.

Right. A little more leading. Get away from what makes Cusack so important. That's the thing. You look at this performance and he's so small in it. I mean, yeah, totally. I mean, he never- His face barely expresses right you know like a teenager he's a real teenager he's got that kind of blank face yeah that mahoney the dad is just so very expressive yeah and uh

yeah and i own this guy too i mean john she's got this crazy mouth i can't keep my eyes off and there's that great line mouth it's not unpretty or anything. It's just really distinctive. But it also definitely feels like a high school thing where it's like your face hasn't totally hit the final proportions yet. You know? Sure, right, right. She's a young person. You know, it's still all shifting around. There's the line where she goes to lunch with her mom

and she's bringing over the boyfriend and the mom goes, remember, just keep talking because when you don't talk, your mouth does that downward thing. I forgot about that. The mom's mean. Mom's very mean and it speaks to the kind of thing where it's like she's got this mouth that's the other thing with her mouth is it's always a gate she's got this like high school thing where she doesn't know how to keep her mouth closed kind of sure and it often looks like she's sort of grimacing or kind of clenching yeah she's like like doing that a lot but she's always her character like jaw open always a little stressed

out cusack's always very tight lipped. You know, I mean, he's got also this kind of pursed mouth. And he's got these very expressive eyes, but they're small. Yeah, he's a beady little guy. Yeah, but he's got kind of a Buster Keaton thing going on where he's sort of stone faced the whole movie. So they go to the party. They both also talk really quietly, which I like.

Like the film, they're talking literally at a quiet volume. So they go to the party. Yeah. Okay. All right. So they go to the party. Yeah. Okay. All right. So they go to the party. The party's great. This is my favorite scene.

I already talked about it. It looks like a good party. It's like 20 minutes of the movie. Exactly. I just like its unique little things. Like I like the key master thing is great. John Cusack has made, you know,

Lloyd has made the key master. By Eric Stoltz. By Eric Stoltz. In Mask. He plays like, yeah, he plays like the character he's gonna play the college version he's gonna play in kicking and screaming like five years later

which is like the guy who's a little too old to still be hanging out but it's just such a party guy like whatever man yeah uh makes on the suit makes lloyd the key master so he has to like decide when people get to have their keys to drive home if they're not if they're sober enough yeah so a position of responsibility. Yeah. And I feel like it's important in this movie because it's identifying for Diane that it's like, this guy might seem like a fuck-up and a weirdo,

but actually he's like a level-headed dude. He's like solid. Like there's something solid about him. And you've got Jeremy Piven plays this drunk maniac who needs to chill. He must chill. He must chill. He must chill. And Lily Taylor's Corey has this whole drama going on with Joe,

played by Lauren Dean, in a wonderful one-scene villain performance, basically. So funny. She fell in love with Joe. They slept together a bunch of times. She lost her virginity to him. He dumps her over and over again for another girl. Well, he was always with the other girl.

And Lily Taylor thought that at some point, because he promised, he was going to dump the other girl and be with her. It never happened, and Lily Taylor attempted suicide once because of it. We get the sense fairly recently. And now she only writes songs about him. Yeah, the film is slightly flippant about the suicide attempt, but it works because that's how teenagers are. Yeah, I agree.

I think the same thing. I think, you know, if we're to presume the suicide happened, the attempt happened in the last month, I'd say it's a little too flippant. I think it's more like a year, in which case I think it's treated with the right kind of weight for how events happen in high school. They do talk about it. And also, she has

written many songs about him. She's now sort of very strong-minded about it. She's not going to let him beat her down. She is going to take a stand. She's written 60 songs about him. She plants herself on the couch. Joe lies when he cries. I'm going to sing every one of them tonight.

She's singing them. They all sound pretty similar. It's very funny. Lily Taylor is hysterically funny in this movie. There's a third friend in the girlfriend group that we're introduced to in this scene, played by? Pamela Adlon. The great Pamela Adlon, who's referenced two episodes now.

She was in The Animatrix as well. Yep. Good job on you, Pam. But she was Pamela Siegel at that point? Oh, I had no idea. She was, yeah. Pre-marriage. She's credited as Pamela Siegel.

Anyway, yeah, she plants herself there, plays all the songs very quickly. Lloyd... Yeah, they split up. They're not in the part. They're not together. They get split up because everyone's like, what's Daniel Kord doing here? Everyone just hangs out. Everyone wants to talk to her. Everyone wants to sign her yearbook. They've never gone to speak to her before in this kind of capacity. Right, and it's like a fucking politician has entered their

midst and they're all just like shaking hands with her and they're like, oh, it's great to meet you, you know? In like a human capacity. Right. You know? And she keeps on looking around and seeing Lloyd. And he's always checking in on her.

He's always checking in on her and just sort of pointing at her and giving a thumbs up and she's like, yeah, thumbs up. And he's got like the key bag on his head in one scene. I love him.

He's so cute in this movie. This is exactly what 99% of teen comedies, teen romances, romantic comedies lack. Yeah. Which is not a meet cute exactly, but just like a sequence that establishes

why two people might like each other. Like most of these things try to do it in these super contrived ways. Yeah. Or with some sort of big grand gesture or for no reason at all really, then you'll start, you know. And I just think it's like, you get it.

You get the connection here, even though it takes a little while for it to become romantic. But that's a really good point. You get the appeals. I think meet-cutes are stupid. Yeah, they're usually kind of dumb. Because you barely know from the first time you meet somebody. And I feel like most of the times in my life I've met someone and I've gone like, oh my God, this is the one.

I've been so fundamentally wrong about that. Yeah, well, that's your personality problem. Yeah, 100%. But there's, yeah, I think you're getting at something really smart here, which is that, like, you meet someone and you're interested, but there's a moment later where you start to go, like, oh, there might be a thing here. It's less about, like, a meet cute and more about, like, a be sweet.

Yeah. There's a moment where you just, like, be sweet with each other in a movie. Sure, sure. Where you're like, oh, there's some nice- Where it's like, oh, when I think about this, actually, yeah. Yeah, right. This is like, yeah. I mean, as the film repeatedly sort of reminds us, Diane's a very methodical person.

She thinks things through. She's really careful and collects evidence. I mean, we'll get to that scene later, but the scene where she sort of lays out her methodology for sleeping with John Cusack, I love it. Yeah, but she just has to- And so we're watching that case kind of get built. Watching this film, you need to see him present himself to her as someone who will make her feel good. Sure. Because that's like the one thing, you know, I mean, she's not going to have time. I just went, yeah, yeah, I'm good. You're just

grievacing a little bit. No, no, yeah, I'm good. You're just grievacing a little bit? No. No, I just had a cough moment and I did it off mic. Sorry to distract. I call that grievacing. Oh, yeah, yeah. A little robot coughing. Yeah. So, let's wrap up the party because we've

got a ticking clock here. Yeah. There's one scene in the party I want to mention. I don't know what yours is. No, you say yours first well the the joe cory kind of confrontation uh-huh where he comes to her and i just love it because he's he is villainous because he's obviously manipulating her but he's mostly stupid yeah i like about it like he's just sort of like i love you you know like, like girlfriend's moving away. But I'll break up with her first. And then we should be together.

Have sex with me. Like, and it's just as dumb as you could imagine. And she gets that he's being dumb finally. Like, that's what I like about it. It feels like this might be the start of a plot for the whole movie where they're like together and breaking up. And she's just like, no, no, no, forget it. And she's out. I'm going to take a stand. And stand and it also i mean that defines later the the thing i like there's a thing that keeps on

repeating throughout the party where people keep on asking him you're here with dying court how did that happen and he's like i asked her i asked her right and when people ask her the same thing the one time she really answers she goes he made me laugh yeah it's cute and it's like he called me i wasn't that sold and he said a couple things of things I thought were funny. And I kind of went, why not? But I love that he says, I asked her. And this guy, so this like loser guy goes like, hey, give me hope, man. Like, oh, yeah. Played by Jason Gould, son of Barbra Streisand and Elliot Gould. Elliot Gould, yeah.

What a sexy 70s couple that is. Have you ever seen that picture I used to be obsessed with? Imagine him. Have you seen that picture that I used to be obsessed with? Imagine him. Have you seen that picture that's Elliot Gould and Barbra Streisand in a swimming pool and she's on his shoulders? No. And they're both just the most beautiful Jews you've ever seen. Yeah.

A lot of shoulder hair. I used to be obsessed with it. There was a period of time where I was trying to make Elliot Gould my best friend. Well, sure. And I had that picture. I have like that. Did I ever show you that thing he wrote to me? You did.

It's very sweet. Yeah. Elliot Gould wrote me a thing once to read when I was having panic attacks. That's cool. That was really nice. Anyway, he's one of my favorite actors of all time. His son's really good in this movie. He is.

He is. He's the one with the weird curly side fade or whatever. Yeah. Look at the weird funny haircut. The exact haircut I had freshman year of high school. Wow. Yeah. Congratulations on that.

It was the curly flock of seagulls. Oh boy. It was the angle. Why did you have that haircut? I don't know. I'll say this. So I got into an eighth grade I was like I want to have long hair.

I want to look like Lars Jurek from Metallica. So I just didn't cut my hair and then like you know a year later I just looked like a brunette carrot top. Like I just had this fucking mush of hair. So my parents were like you got to get a hair. And then like, you know, a year later, I just looked like a brunette carrot top. Like I just had this fucking mush of hair. So my parents were like, you got to get a haircut.

And I was like, okay, but I want to keep it long. So I was like, let me do something that's like layered. So they cut it on the sides. And weird. And so I did that. I like, I don't know. I brought in some weird like Johnny Depp picture where he had straight hair. And I was like, give me this.

And when I walked out, I ended up looking like Jason Golden say anything. And I had that for like three months until I shaved my head. Okay. So now I think we need to move past the party because I was just going to say there's the moment when, I believe it happens at the party when Dianne Court talks to Corey and she just keeps on saying like,

he's a really good guy. Yes. When is the scene, one of my other favorites, this is later though. Well, I don't want to get to that yet but it's a really nice scene because like especially as someone

dealing with a dude who's such a piece of shit sure and as someone who is like best friends with Lloyd but doesn't view him

romantically yeah she's kind of trying to just like it's not just being like please date my friend please date my friend I feel like she's

telling Diane like you're lucky right that other people don't realize that Lloyd is such a good guy. Yeah. That's the secret.

I've dealt with shitty guys. People think I think the the read on Lloyd seems to be like Lloyd he's cool. Yeah. I don't know that guy's vibe but he's cool. You can kind of count on Lloyd

like he's all right. But he's not in with the bros. No. Who we see later for one scene and we see the bros. Yeah. And he's not one of them but they're fine with him. you know they'll they'll they'll you know talk to him and this you know this taylor uh brooks adlon group seem to be sort of they're they're kind of latchkey

kids in their own way yeah he's like the ultimate latchkey kid yeah that's right yeah yeah yeah sure i mean he's he's such a gen x kid in that way right so they're not like nerds but they're also not popular. They're just kind of kids who exist in high school. Like, oh, yeah, she's nice. Which I think is one reason people love this movie is that they can glom onto him in that way. They can be like, yeah, I'm kind of like this guy. You know, I'm not a theater kid.

I'm not a jock. You know, I'm kind of like this guy. I'm kind of a jack of all trades. And there's the scene where Cusack confronts Lauren Dean, confronts Joe, and is like, don't you see, she's written 60 songs about you. You're like hurting her. He's just like, what? Please. He's so funny.

But he's like, please let her out of her misery. Don't you understand that she's written all these songs? And he goes like, oh yeah, I understand it. She's going to be famous one day and I'm going to have all her tapes. Yeah, why do you think I keep her tapes? Yeah. And he's just like, you fucking asshole. But he's not.

He's just kind of like, ugh. of tapes. Yeah, and he's just like, you fucking asshole. But he's not. He's just kind of like, ugh. But he's just, he's too young and too dumb at this point in time to understand that she's a human being. And Lloyd understands that. Which is how people are like, often.

But Lloyd is different. Most teenagers are sociopaths to one degree or another. Lloyd's a little different, and he's the kind of guy who, after the party, when you go to the 7-Eleven or whatever, and you're walking, and you've taken your shoes off because they were high heels and your feet hurt, and there's some glass on the street, he'll sweep it aside with his foot. And that's the defining moment.

He doesn't make a big deal out of it. He's not looking for a medal. He just does it because he doesn't want her to hurt her feet, and he's observant. He's aware. Walks her home, gives her a hug. Off he goes. Now, I'm going to say this, gentlemen. What we just described is a lot of showing, correct?

Sure. That's the photo. David just found the photo. We're going to post it on our Twitter of Streisand and Gould. It's the sexiest thing I've ever seen. So it's a lot of showing, Ben. What were you saying? But I've never seen this film prior to this viewing. Sure.

And I got to tell you, I kept waiting for Cusack to tell me how he was feeling and break the fourth wall. Oh, sure. You mean you were looking for a high fidelity. I think because I also saw Lili, right? Sure. And I was also in high fidelity. Yeah. But this ain't a high fidelity, baby.

No. They're both great films. High fidelity is a masterpiece. Yes. One of the greatest romantic comedies ever made because it knows its protagonist is an evil, not evil, but awful person. Yeah.

And takes him on those terms. Yeah. And it knows that romance is about dependency. Yeah. And takes the main romance on those terms and is still a somewhat heartwarming movie that you love. It is a work of genius. I agree 100%.

I also think I watched it again about a year ago, and it's finally gotten to that interesting point where it's a perfect time capsule movie. Absolutely. Where the film feels very much of its time. Absolutely. It feels like a period piece, but it's so honed into what the culture was

and the look of the year 2000 was and the sound of the year 2000 and all of that that it's like it's a it's a perfect little uh movie uh talk about a movie that is brutal about its protagonist yeah which i love i know um here's another thing about high fidelity one that bums me out about i think it aging poorly and this is not the movie's fault uh do you remember seeing that movie for the first time when you didn't know that Jack Black could sing that well? Yeah.

Yeah. And it was cool when he sings at the end of the movie. Yeah. Yeah. And I like tried to show the movie to Romley and she liked it a lot. She was like I've seen School of Rock. Yeah I know Jack Black can sing. He sings all the time.

He will never stop being. He's the singing guy. He's delicious D. Yeah. Anyway. This movie. Yeah. Getting back to it.

Yeah. She starts dating Lloyd. Yeah. At first seems pretty gentle. Mm hmm. But he comes to like a family dinner. Yeah. Getting back to it. Yeah. She starts dating Lloyd. Yeah. At first, seems pretty gentle, but he comes to like a family dinner. Yeah. And at that family dinner, he says that he doesn't want to buy, sell, or process anything. He doesn't want to buy anything that's been sold or processed.

He doesn't want to sell anything that's been bought or processed. He doesn't want to process anything that's been bought or sold or processed. So do you know the story about that line? No, it's so good. That line was originally much shorter and Cusack fucked it up. And Crow used the take where he was trying to correct it after he had said it. So he says it six different ways.

It's such a perfect teenager at the dinner table moment. Yeah. And if you notice, they cut away to the family reactions a couple times. But I think it's also because he had to cut away from Cusack's face clearly fucking up the lines. Oh, yeah, sure, sure, sure. But he just wanted the lines.

But he does that, and there are a couple other moments in the film like that where Ion Skye starts saying something and then re-says it. That feels like an actor resetting on their line because they pronounced the first word weirdly. But Crow just likes the weird jangly energy of it. It's like I do it on the podcast all the time where I go like, oh, that's one of my favorite words. And everyone loves it. Right, and everyone loves it. People love it. They put it on t-shirts. They collect the trading cards. Correct. But most directors were like, I want the line clean. Right. I want a clean take. And Cusack's like, not Cusack, Crow is like that's who these characters are. They're young people. They don't know how to express themselves yet.

And it feels human. It feels messy. It feels, they're young people. They don't know how to express themselves yet. Yeah. And it feels human. It feels messy. It feels real. It feels honest. I don't know if Crow was like this. I think he was. I mean, Crow's famous for playing music over the PA system while he's shooting. Like, playing music that he wants to be on the soundtrack or wants, like, to be part of the vibe of the film.

He's a mood filmmaker. To, like, set the mood. He's famous for his somewhat unconventional methods in this regard yeah he's not i would say a great filmmaker like capital g capital f in terms of like where he puts his camera or like that kind of stuff but he's not bad he's not a very visual filmmaker i think he's very good with editing which isn't surprising because he's a musical guy and there's a rhythm thing there yeah his cinematography is is clean yeah but sort of i mean he gets we'll get to it he gets more invent i mean like jerry mcguire is one of the best edited comedies ever made editing has always Cinematography is clean, but sort of... I mean, he gets... We'll get to it. He gets more inventive. I mean, like, Jerry Maguire is one of the best edited comedies ever made.

Editing has always been a strong suit of his. Cinematography has always been sort of perfunctory. He hires good people. The films are in focus. This film was shot by Laszlo Kovacs. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's, you know, yeah. He hires good people, but he puts the camera in sort of just...

And edited by Richard Marks. The simplest place. He has really good close-ups. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because he trusts his actors, and I think his biggest skill set is just edited by Richard Marks. The simplest place. He has really good close ups because he trusts his actors. And I think his biggest skill set is just he's amazing with actors. He writes these great characters and I think he really loves actors.

There are certain filmmakers you watch like Crow. I think when you watch Altman movies. Sure. Obviously Cassavetes movies where you sit there and you can just imagine

the director behind the monitor watching the takes and just like being like oh god look how great this is yeah like look at them making all these choices David O. Russell's when you go too far into it and it becomes indulgent good call but these guys just kind of like love actors love performances love actors love performances and you can feel the space they're giving them the movie just becomes at this point sort of a slow courtship she keeps on saying like we're not dating we're friends but then they're sort of kissing at the same time we know we realize at the dinner table that john mahoney's character is being investigated by the irs for something right so that's kind of bubbling

away in the background so i say there's three tracks set up now on this film which are john mahoney's being investigated by the ir. We don't totally understand why. Aeon Skye is going to England at the end of the summer. So there's a bit of a ticking time bomb. Right, and she says, like, I'm leaving in 16 weeks. He's like, I want to see you as much as I can in these 16 weeks. Yeah, six weeks is a lot of time. I want to see you as much as I can.

Because to a teenager, that is true. 100%. Yep. And Cusack has no idea what the fuck he's doing with his life. And he keeps getting asked what he's going to do with his life. He's feeling the pressure. Bebe Neuwirth gets out of the car. And she's like, you really need to decide on a career.

His dad, as he keeps reminding us, wants him to join the military, but he doesn't really want to be part of that corporation, as he puts it. Mahoney's throwing a lot of shade at his lack of focus. He doesn't believe in the kickboxing thing. Mahoney's dislike of him increases, which I like. It's not like he just sees this guy and is like, fuck this guy.

Yeah. It's more like he sees this guy and is like, this guy's not a threat to my daughter. My daughter's, like, very clear-minded. She's not going to get distracted by this. He keeps seeing him and he's like, what's the deal with him? Like, you know, what's this guy's problem? And then, I know, we got to get to it because we do have to keep moving. I know.

No, I was just going to say, I like that Mahoney's problem isn't that he dislikes Lloyd. It's that Lloyd is a distraction to her. He dislikes how much his daughter likes him. Yeah, he doesn't really think about him as a person much. It's more just like the role he plays. He thinks he's a roadblock. But then they have sex. Like pretty early in the movie. Like 45 minutes in.

I don't know. Like, you know, halfway through the movie maybe. They're in the backseat of a car. Yeah. They have hot sex. It through the movie, maybe. They're in the backseat of a car. Yeah. They have hot sex. Yeah. It's a fucking hot scene. Yeah. They're hot people.

Yeah. That's also my biggest sexual fantasy. I've never had sex in a car before. I really want to. Because I grew up in New York City. There's no cars. Yeah, it's not really a car sex town. It's not really a car town. But they do some, like, really, really cool car fucking.

They listen to In Your Eyes by Peter Gabriel. When she says listen to this song, it's a really good song. Yeah, but it's just kind of playing quietly. He doesn't push it too hard. In your eyes. It's not like that. It's more like. The light, the heat.

In your eyes. It's just like quietly. The light, the heat. I am complete. In your eyes. Fencing too. Yeah, we all have to harmonize. To a thousand churches.

Okay, ready? Ready? All three of us at once. Okay, ready? All three of us at once. Okay, ready? One, two, three. In your eyes, the lights, the heat. Guys. David, you're not here.

Ready? Okay, wait. We got to start over. Ben's so monotonous. We have 15 minutes, Griffin. Three, two, one. In your eyes. David.

I'm not doing this. Come on. We got to move on. We got to move one. In your eyes. David. I'm not doing this. Come on. We got to move on. We got to move on. In your eyes. I am complete. Oh, God. I hate that when I start a ball rolling and then it's like, I do it so often.

What do I think is going to happen? I don't know. They have sex. She explains this decision to her father. She goes home. I love it. She's like, I wasn't gonna do it you know he goes where were you why didn't

you call I spent the night with Lloyd so immediately when he hears that he goes like oh boy spent the night is that a euphemism right and she goes I was with him so I think about how much I loved him and then you know how much I liked him and then I wasn't ready to have sex make this decision so I told him that

and Mahoney gives her like, you know, a kind nod. He's very proud of his daughter. And then she goes, and then I just attacked him anyway. Right, right, right. Which is great because you can see Mahoney be like, oh good. Like you see his face relax and then she's like, eh, but then I attacked him anyway. And he's just like,

he's just terrified. But I like that he's not angry at her. No, he's not angry for having sex. He's not like some defender of her virginity or anything like that. That virginity is not discussed. Yeah. You know, they have sex because people have sex with each other. Yeah, people like having sex. Good.

Yeah. A plus number one. Okay. I'd say number two. Movies are better. But then we see him try to buy a luggage set. Yeah. Old Mahone. Yeah. Owning Mahoney. Owning Mahoney. Great Philip are better. But then we see him try to buy a luggage set. Old Mahone.

Yeah. Owning Mahoney. Owning Mahoney. Great Philip Mahoney. He's trying to own. He's trying to own Mahoney. Yeah. But Philip Seymour Hoffman will do it.

Yeah. Many years later. Goes, is flirting hard. No one has ever made an Owning Mahoney reference on any podcast ever. It's never happened. It's one of the few Hoffman movies I haven't seen. It's pretty good. And it's directed by Todd Luiezo from High Fidelity.

It's true. Tying it all together. An actor that never happened. Yeah. He made Love, Liza too, right? He did a lot of movies with PSA. Oh, he didn't do Owning Mahoney. He made Love, Liza.

I confused Love, Liza with Owning Mahoney. You know what film he's phenomenal in? Jerry Maguire. Todd Louiezo is incredible in Jerry Maguire. Yeah. And in High Fidelity. Yeah. Yeah.

He had a good run. I don't know what fucking happened to him. What is this music? He also recently wrote the Michael Fassbender Hamlet movie. What is this music? You mean Michael Fassbender

McBeth? Yes. I'm sorry. I'm getting everything confused. Owning Mahoney was directed by Richard Kiewanowski. Oh, of course.

The great Richard I can't pronounce his name. Kiewanowski. Oh, of course. The great Richard Kiewanowski. He tries to buy a luggage set. His card gets declined. And he's flirting with this woman. Another guy looks at him and is like, thumbs up. Yeah, right. And he's like, would you want to? And she's like, your card got declined.

And I was watching this with Joanne. I was like, could they even get a card decline in 89? Were there credit card machines at this point? Or did they still do the... You hear a dial tone when she swipes it. Sure, but I love what she I love that she says I have to confiscate your card. Never heard of that. You have to take your card away?

I mean, it doesn't work, right? I don't know. But it's like, it could be such a perfunctory scene of, oh look, your card's declined. And Qrow adds this whole other element to it which is the wounded pride of he's flirting with this woman. You get the sense that he hasn't had much of a dating life because his whole life is his daughter. But his daughter's about to go away.

Maybe he can entertain this. Yeah, it's so true. There are like four things happening in this scene simultaneously. He's such a boss in this movie. You know what other movie he's great in around the same time? Moonstruck. Oh yeah, absolutely. He's really good in that. And Moonstruck, that scene is where he keeps on, Olympia Dukakis

keeps on seeing him at the restaurant flirting with these women. And then they throw fucking drinks in his face. And she's like, just cool it. Cool it, Mahoney. You know, I rode an elevator with Olympia Dukakis at this very podcast studio one. Really? With Joe Reed. When we were coming up to record our episode.

The great Joe Reed. We were in a podcast with an older lady. And I wasn't really thinking. I mean, in an elevator. We were in a podcast. We got to be in a podcast with an older lady. We haven't covered thinking i mean in an elevator did i say we were in a podcast we got to be in a podcast and i wasn't really paying attention and then we got out and joe was like that was olympia dukakis academy award winner of course joe would know that 100 joe would know that joe reed the king of best supporting actress yes anyway so it's she breaks up with him.

It really kind of happens out of nowhere. Not quite, but the dad's just kind of like, you need to break up with him. Mahoney gives a big speech. He's like, you're moving away. You don't want to get tied down. You don't want to go think about any of this. She goes, how am I supposed to do that? And he goes, just give him this pen. Now, Lloyd at this point has sent a letter that is a big romantic overture.

She also says, I would never give him a pen. Yeah. When he suggests the pen, she's like, that's fucking dumb. I would never do that. That's weird. That's weird. Dumb. But indeed, that's what happens.

She doesn't have a better idea. They have this car ride where Cusack, where Lloyd's trying to go to the next level. Yeah. You know, I love you level. Yeah. And there's a great part where he goes, there's something I've been meaning to tell you, I want to tell you. And she goes, don't say it. And he goes, you don't even know what I'm going to say.

And she goes, no, I know what you're going to say. And he goes, I love you. Yeah. And she's like, we should see less of each other. Yeah. And he's like, what are you saying? And she goes, I think we should go back to being friends. And he was like, that's what we are.

We're just friends. We're just hanging out. And then she's like, I think we should spend less time together. Right. She has to. We should stop seeing each other. Break up with him. Yeah.

Now, so yeah. So this is the, yeah, I guess this is the should stop seeing each other. Break up with him. Yeah. Now, so yeah, so this is the... Yeah, I guess this is the part I was worried was going to be just whatever, like in a different light. That he's bugging her, he's calling her.

I don't think so. No, I think it works. It's fine. I mean, mostly because it's not a big part of the movie anyway. Yeah. And the movie basically

invests the whole part of them being broken up in just him holding up the stereo. Yeah. It's like that's like the whole story. We get it. We get it. He's sort of he's always going to be in her mind.

Like he's like, you know, she's trying to forget it, but he's still kind of thinking about it. That's the moment that makes Cameron Crowe as a filmmaker. Totally. Like I don't think that's the best moment in the film. No, but it's just so memorable and weird. It's so weird. And it is. He's able to capture an entire moment in the film. No, but it's just so memorable and weird. It's so weird, and it is. He's able to capture an entire feeling in an image. For someone who's not a very visual

filmmaker, he knows how to use performances, and he knows how to use action. Showing rather than telling, you know? Yes. And he nails it. And then the movie, what's interesting is then the movie kind of joins its two plot lines with that very idea.

Yeah. And it's like basically she realizes she still wants to be with Lloyd, so she has to figure out if her dad is really guilty of tax fraud. Yeah. And she goes to the IRS where she meets who? The great Philip Baker Hall. Such a great one-scene performance. The kind of shit he just does on the reg.

I watched Boogie Nights the night before I watched this just by chance. Why? Why did you watch Boogie Nights? It's on Netflix and I couldn't sleep and I had to watch all three hours of Boogie Nights. Okay? So I watched Boogie Nights the night before this where he also has a little more screen time but it's essentially the one scene. Yeah he's not really in much. Yeah. It's a similar thing where

it's an office scene where he sits down Now you listen to me Griffin. I wish I could do him. If I could do a Not really in much, yeah. It's a similar thing where it's an office scene where he sits down. Now you listen to me, Griffin. I wish I could do him. If I could do a Philip Baker Hall, I would be set in life. What a particular voice he has. If you could do Philip Baker Hall, you would be on MADtv right now. And that's important to mention because we referenced your MADtv reel a lot recently. I'm not in the new cast of MADtv.

I'm sorry, David. Yeah, I saw that. It's fine. Let's move on. But have you seen Heart 8 recently? I watched Heart 8 a couple months ago. No, I watched Heart 8 a couple months ago. I still have never seen.

He's so fucking good in it. It's crazy how good he is in it. It's crazy. We shouldn't even talk about it. It's like saying the name of God. Well, Midnight Run, if we ever get to- Oh, Breasty! But you know his character in Heart 8 is his character from Midnight Run, right?

So right, absolutely. That like, Paul Thomas Anderson was obsessed with his role in Midnight Run, which is also essentially one or two scenes. That was the Philip Baker Hall special. He said, I want to know who that guy is and wrote a whole movie inspired by it

and the character has the same first name. It's kind of like the conversation in Enemy of the State where they're like not really sequels but they both have the same character. I mean, the conversation in Enemy of the State is they're like not really sequels but they both have the same character i mean the that the conversation enemy of the state is less yes agreed so let's finish this up felt bigger hall is the best he has this scene where he goes to the daughter and she's like can you explain to me what's going on no one will tell me anything can you treat me like an adult right and just be honest with and he's like your dad steals money he he bills these old

people for phony shit he you know he has a lot of cash on hand probably. He probably buys a lot of stuff just to keep his money liquid. His customers die and he acquires whatever. Exactly. And she goes like, stop fucking lying to me. And he's like, I'm not lying. You just told me to tell the truth. I told the truth.

You said he could take it. She says, you're trying to get me to confess, which is probably true. He's probably trying it. But he's also being like, look, we've been investing in your dad for years. This shit's probably on the level. And I'm saying a lot of stuff that's classic for these kinds of cases. Have you noticed it? She goes to the house.

And then we start to notice the house is full of stuff. He's bought her a car. I said that earlier. He gives her two gifts. He's always giving her gifts. They've got a fucking jukebox. The sack comments on the jukebox. There's a lot of shit. He keeps on buying gifts and she goes, I don on the jukebox. I know, nine grand that jukebox cost. He keeps on buying gifts

and she goes, I don't need more gifts and he goes, okay, one's from you as a dad, one's for you as a friend. My best friend.

Right, yeah. And you know, she finds the money in the antique drawers or whatever. And I love that the title of the film refers to the relationship

between her and her father and not the relationship to each other because they say that two times. He goes, you know you can say anything to me. And he says that before she tells him about sleeping with Lloyd. A later point in the film,

when he's trying to get him to confess, she goes, you told me that we could say anything to each other, you have to tell me. And he doesn't. Yeah. And this is the thing that clicks in her brain, where it's like, even though she knows her father's right, that she is someone with this ability

and is destined for greatness and needs to stay on a straight path. And I think she eventually figures out he did all this shit mostly out of concern for her and he wants to just give her money. Which is the tragedy of this character. Right. I mean, and also he's a bad guy, but he's not like, I mean, he's not like a supervillain or whatever. He's more just like, yeah, bad guy. Yeah.

And he's rationalized it to himself. He's like, whatever. They get a nice old people home out of me. Like, what do you care how much it costs? Well, that's what's great is he doesn't back down on that scene. He says, like, I didn't do anything wrong. He doesn't really back down when he's in prison. Yeah.

He knows he's fucked up, but he doesn't really admit the wrongdoing. Oh, there's a great shot like halfway through the film that's just him in the bathtub lying there. That's devastating. And the daughter knocks on the door and he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Finishing up in here. Mahoney, man. It's incredible. Owned it.

Owns it. Just so we don't pass over it. There was one throwaway scene with the two accountants talking a bunch of mumbo jumbo. No, it's the two lawyers. Yeah. That was so weird. Love that scene. Oh, that's the lawyers.

Yeah. That's the lawyers negotiating his plea bargain. Yeah. I'll tell you what I love about that scene. Cause that's how You like that? Yeah, that's the lawyers negotiating his plea bargain. Yeah, I'll tell you what I love about that scene, Ben. Love that scene because that's how that shit works. Yeah, and I like this more this time than the last two times. I like that it's so fucking banal because courtroom stuff in movies

is usually so dramatic and so heightened, and you're just seeing two guys go like, what about nine months? And he's like, no, come on, dude, 12 months. And he's like, fine, 12 months, 200,000. I've got it almost exactly. It's 40,000, no jail time. The guy's like, no way. And he's like, fine, 12 months, $200,000. I've got it almost exactly. It's $40,000, no jail time. The guy's like, no way. And he's like, alright, $80,000. The guy's like, $120,000,

it's nine months. And he's like, yeah, that's fine. He goes like, he stole from grandma and grandpa. Come on. We're not going to let him off that easy. But they barely make eye contact with each other and then they just shake hands and they go and they're like, work's done. These guys have 80 cases a day. They don't have time to get all emotional about them. It's not, you know, you're out of order, these guys have 80 cases a day. Yeah. They don't have time to get all emotional about them.

Right. It's not, you know, you're out of order, this whole court's out of order. Right. It's like it just happens in a back room, and that's like the fucking deal. And Mahoney, when she confronts him about it, is like, no, absolutely not. Like, she gives him the final chance to own up to it. To own Mahoney. Yeah.

And he doesn't do it. He won't do it. And she goes, dad, I found the money. Yeah, right. Like, I found tons of bills in a box. Clearly I know what's going on. He won't do it. And she goes, dad, I found the money. Yeah, right. Like I found tons of bills in a box. Clearly I know what's going on. And he immediately goes, it's not what you think it is. And she goes, what is it?

And rather than lie and say like that money was given to me by a drifter, you know, he goes, it's not what you think it is. I did it for you. Right. And she goes like, I don't care who you did it for. And he's like, I need to do this. And he keeps on like getting defensive and going like, I do so much for these people. I treat them better than their families do.

What does it matter if I take their money? And she's like, they didn't allow you to. They didn't agree to that. But he's so stubborn in a man who spent, what, I mean, 10 years of his life. I mean, how long has it been since the parents divorced? Five or six years. Right. Yeah.

And since then, he just is like, it's entirely on me to carry this girl. Yeah. And it's clear from the way, the scene with the mother, where all she does is comment on her mouth being weird and wanting her to be presentable in front of her boyfriend. The mom clearly doesn't see the same potential in her that the dad does. Sure. Yes. And he feels this responsibility single-handedly.

And he went too far. He went too far. He wanted to create a big safety net. I don't even know. The movie doesn't get into it. It doesn't matter because she's a teenager. The thing is that a bad thing happens to her, which is what happens to teenagers.

People think this plot, the big hit on this movie, I think, is that this plot comes out of nowhere and that it's so dramatic all of a sudden. That's what people's lives are like. Yeah, it worked so well for me. That's really my argument. I really do feel like this is, teenagers are just like. Yeah, it worked so well for me. That's really my argument. I really do feel like this is, teenagers are just like, I like Lloyd.

I like Lloyd. I'm blinkering my eyes and looking at her from around. I like Lloyd. I like Lloyd. And then suddenly it's like ripped out, you know, they have to be ripped out of their teen tunnel vision. And it's like, dude, all this crazy stuff happens in the world. Well, it's also like in all these teen films, the lead female character usually has so little fucking like internal life going on.

Right. For a film that starts with a guy being like, I have a crush on this girl. I want to ask her out. Yeah. And then act two, for whatever reason, they're going to split up because that's how these movies work until act three. They get back together. Right. And usually what splits them up is another guy or just like I'm getting scared.

Things are moving too fast. Sure. Or my least favorite when a film is set up on a lie and she finds out the lie in the relationship. And I throw knives at the screen. Right? The worst. I fucking vomit everywhere. And that's not always.

So many teen movies. Not even always romances. The whole premise is that there's some big lie that they start telling. And then they have to like elaborate on it because they get like caught in. And then like you're just like we're gonna have the third act reveal it's gonna be like a total bummer and then it has to be solved like it's the worst especially in relationship movies school of rock it works i think any movie where it's a teacher lying about something it works any movie where someone's lying to the other person the couple it's

a nightmare let's wrap it up um i want to play the box office game i've had in real life relationships that ended because of family stuff that was going on in my life and the burden of that became so great that I was just like I just don't fucking deal with this and I love that the film starts with Lloyd and then kind of shifts over to her after he

dumps her and is like she dumps him I'm sorry yes uh this is what she's going through and you're able to track why she dumped him because she had all this shit to process. And then why she kind of wants to go back to him because she can't forget about him. You don't see him for a long period of the film,

and when you do, it's these little bits and pieces of just the phone calls, of the boombox, of this and that. And he goes to hang out with the guys, and they're like, just find a girl who looks exactly like her fucker, and then you'll be fine. And he's like, why are you guys just hanging out alone on a Friday night just with each other and not with any women. And like some random 10 year old.

And they're just like it's out of choice. Out of choice. Out of choice. And then I love the thing at the end of that conversation Piven just goes like I was in love once. That really sucked. Like when that ended I don't want to go through that again. Like it's like this moment of honesty where they're like I'm really scared of like letting my feelings get exposed.

There's the great Lauren Dean line too where he goes like, dude, I can hook you up with any girl in the universe. Who do you want? And he goes, okay, Diane Court. And he's like, ah. So the movie ends in a federal penitentiary. Classic. She comes back to Cusack right after he's gotten his nose broken in a kickboxing room.

True, true. She comes up to him and she's like, Lloyd, I need you. And he's like, gotten over her. He's like, put up the defensive wall of like, I'm not going to let myself feel hurt. He needs her to say it three times. Right.

But he says like, do you need me or do you need someone right now? And then he goes, you know what? I don't care. I don't care. And then he starts kissing her. Right. Right.

Because they love each other. Yeah. And he makes her say it three times. But then they go to a federal penitentiary. They meet the dead. Only Lloyd talks to the dead for most of the scene. And Mahoney, his hair's gone gray. Yeah.

Because obviously he was coloring his hair. And like, he's just, he's smoking. He's smoking. He's miserable. It sucks. He's so fucking grumpy. It's a little too on the nose, but it works. It just sucks.

It's also this guy. And he's good. Who just sort of charms his way through life, and now it's like. Fuck, it's ruined. Yeah. And his daughter won't even talk to him, which is like the most heartbreaking. And he says, why is she so angry at me about this? This had nothing to do with her.

Right, right, right. Like he takes no responsibility for anything. He doesn't get that he did a bad thing. That's why she's upset. Right. Because he did an immoral thing, and she loves old people. Right. And he fucked over all these old people who she loves. He feels like he's getting blamed for someone else's problem.

Which is the entire reason why he is in jail. I love that thing where he reads the letter from her and Cusack's like, read to the end. No, I think there's a good part in there. She definitely wrote a version with a good part in there and it's not a good part. I don't know which version. No, this is the good one. It's the one that ends with, I'll always love you. And then he looks over the page and they don't say anything just her name yeah she just he looks at

you see the face drop um and and he says like you know lloyd what are you gonna do and he went well you know i thought about everything you said about dan how much he's destined for and going to london would be a big burden for her you know and he goes i'm very glad you know you came to your senses and went and then i realized i don't care about any of that. Right, and I just like to be with her, so I'm just going to go to London and be with her. You always ask me what I want to do. To be honest, sir, I want to be with your daughter.

And by the way, we've got to be done with talking about the plot of the movie. Yeah, because I've got to see Finding Dory. But I love that she's afraid of flying because I'm afraid of flying. I hate flying. I hate to fly. It's my least favorite thing in the world. And I love that the movie ends with them in the plane as it's taking off, waiting for the seatbelt light to go off, which is how I feel when I'm in a plane.

I'm just like, when is this nightmare over? He says, if something's going to go wrong, it's going to go wrong in the first five minutes. So when you hear the ding of the seatbelt, you're basically fine, which is a perfect metaphor for the entire movie, which is like the rockiest part of any relationship is the beginning and the end. Right, and they're holding each other's hands, and they're just waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting,

and they're like, ding, cut to bus're just waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and then ding, cut to black. It's take off and landing. You want cruising altitude is what you want in a relationship. Ding, cut to black. Yeah, perfect. I couldn't remember when I was watching it

if it cut to black right after the ding or before the ding. Sure. It's right after. Well, I know because now I've rewatched it. But I was sitting there and I was kind of like, i wanted the bleaker ending that was cutting before the ding and not being sure about the ding yeah but then i realized like no the whole movie was them taking off give them the ding they've earned the ding so this movie came out april 1989 um a domestic gross total was 20

million dollars basically made its budget back plus a little bit. It opened to 4 mil April 14th, weekend of April 14th, 1989. Can you guess what number one was? Let me tell you. This is a movie that any time producer Ben watches it, cries. 1989? And Ben has told you that he cries every time he watches this film? Every time he sees this movie.

Give me one more hint. How many weeks of release? It's a baseball movie. It had come out the previous week. Field of Dreams. Nope. No. Come on. That would be an obvious answer. Think Ben Hosley. Bull Durham? No. Also a good movie. 1989 baseball movie. It's not Aitman Al because that was the year earlier. The Natural. Nope. It's a comedy. Fuck. Dennis Haysburg is in it.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. And I know Ben has told me before that he cries every time he watches Major League. Ben cries every time he watches Major League. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why either, but it's just that last game gets me every time, man. I cry in Major League 2 when he puts the wild thing

glasses back on. Back to the minors? No, that's three. That's three. Fair enough. Fair enough. Major League, back to the minors. No, that's three. That's three. Fair enough. Fair enough. Major League, back to the minors. Show some respect. All right.

Also in the top 10 that year, we're not going to play the game because we're out of time, but the Dream Team with Michael Keaton. Peter Boyle,

Stephen Furst. Correct. Christopher Lloyd. You've got She's Out of Control. What film is She's Out of Control? It's a movie

with fucking Matthew Perry in it. I don't know. It's a Tony Dan fucking Matthew Perry in it. I don't know. It's a Tony Danza movie. I have no idea what it is. Jeez Louise. Rain Man is in there, having made $152 million over the previous 18 weeks. It will then go on to win Best Picture that year.

It's going to win Best Picture in a couple weeks or a few weeks. You've got a movie called Disorganized Crime. Great. Looks like a mafia comedy. You've got Cyborg. Jeez Louise. This is a die or ten. It really is. You've got Dead Calm.

Decent thriller. The Kidman Zane picture? Yeah, got that right. This is April? This is April 89. Okay. You've got Fletch Lives. Oh boy.

Oh man. Shout out to Fletch. Yeah. Which has collected 30 mil in five weeks. Not great. Yeah. And you've got the Rescuers. The original re-release?

The original re-release Rescuers. Because probably Down Under was coming out the next year. It was coming out maybe at the end of the year. Maybe it's the next year. They're getting the audience primed and buttered up. Bill and Ted's still in there. Dangerous Liaisons. Twins.

Heather's. These are at the back of the... Can I ask a serious question? Twins made $106 million. Huge. Is Bill and Ted the best comedy the... Can I ask a serious question? Twins made $106 million. Huge. Is Bill and Ted the best comedy ever made? I don't think so. Because sometimes I do.

You know, I haven't seen either Bill and Ted in a long time, but I haven't seen Bogus Journey in an age. One of the best sequels. I know. I would like to see it again because I feel like probably a lot of it went over my head when I was 11. Yeah, rules. What's also like 50% a seventh seal parody.

It's true. That movie, rules. Can you help plug my computer over there? Yeah, but guess what? It's got motherfucking George Carlin in it too. Oh, wait, what? We got a merchandise spotlight. Oh, come on.

We got to go. Look at this. Oh, gross. It's so weird. Okay, I knew David was going to hate this. It's a Lloyd Dobler toy, but his eyes are bulging out in the wrong direction. So Funko, the company that makes all those pop figures, they have a line called Vinyl Idols that are taller, so they're like vinyl statues.

Okay. But they're done in this weird style that I guess is supposed to look kind of like a stop motion figure. I don't like that at all. Don't you think it looks weird? Yeah, I mean, I wait. It looks like Daniel Radcliffe's character in Swiss Army Man,

which has probably come out by the time this movie, this podcast is released. But the likeness isn't bad. I mean, they got kind of the mouth, the eyes, he's kind of wall-eyed. The likeness is fine. He's got very wide-set eyes, and the pupils are going opposite directions.

You know what, no one can see this, and no one will ever see it, so let's not talk about it. But it's Cusack holding the boombox. It's a non-articulated plastic statue of Cusack holding a boombox. If you want one for $20, you can put it on a shelf. That's the only toy ever made of a Cameron Crowe film.

Cool. I bought the Armageddon Criterion DVD today. Oh, wow. Because someone posted a clip on Twitter of Ben Affleck's audio commentary on that DVD. And it's just him talking about Michael Bay where he was like, Michael, why does, I said to Michael, why do they have to train us to be astronauts when they could just train the astronauts to be drillers

which seems easier? And Michael was like, Ben, shut the fuck up! And so I guess that was the end of that conversation. It's really funny and I just want to listen to this whole thing and see what other gems of wisdom Ben Affleck has. Maybe let me borrow that after you're done.

I will. And there's a later part where he's like, you know, I just think this is a real leap of logic. It's like, how hard is it to operate a drill? Point it at the ground. Turn it on. It's so funny. Because, you know, Disney licensed all the Criterion special features, including the commentary for their Blu-ray of The Rock. Uh-huh. But not Armageddon.

But didn't do it for Armageddon, which is so fucking annoying. Well, that's true. I had to buy the DVD, which I don't like buying DVDs because I love a crisp Blu-huh. But not Armageddon. Didn't do it for Armageddon which is so fucking annoying. Well, that's true. I had to buy the DVD which I don't like buying DVDs because I love a crisp Blu-ray. Me too. So anyway, I did that. Anyway, so yeah.

So that's our Say Anything episode. Next week we're going to do singles. I just want to throw one thing out there. A thing I think interesting. There's one lone credited producer on this film. Most movies have like

$20 in production. It's a lady. Her name is Polly Platt. She was the production designer uh and wife of uh peter bogdanovich okay on his first couple films last picture show uh targets um uh whatchamacallit uh paper moon what's up doc the ones that rule yeah the great ones yeah he leaves his wife for uh sybil shepherd makes a bunch of sybil shepherd vehicles that are of okay disintegrating bad right yeah um and polly platt as his career kind of very quickly

plummeted there's a legacy this sort of marshall lucas thing of like polly platt might have been the necessary other half ingredient yeah to the whole production okay and she i believe produces terms of endearment james l brooks' first movie and then some years later after now he's a kind of story filmmaker and he brings Cameron Crowe she produces Say Anything and then years later also produces Bottle Rocket

so there you go so you're saying she's a secret ingredient three of those four filmmakers are dudes who really lost the plot later on and she produced their first movie which is the one that crystallized the thing. I think she's an interesting figure to throw out there. That's the kind of insight you get on Blank Check

with Griffin and David. We podcast. We podcast. We haven't talked enough about that name. We'll talk about it next week. We gotta go. We did a poll and it got 47% of the votes. And I knew it would the second I saw it as an option. You didn't tell me because you thought I would hate it. I always would have loved it.

I really want to object to that. I want to let the people choose. But Polly Platt's an interesting figure. That's rude. She'll probably be covered in other miniseries and we'll talk about her more. She's an interesting figure

in American filmmaking and she died about seven years ago which is sad. But she's gotten some crazy things. Yeah. And that sucks.

I know. Yes it does. It does. But we do have to wrap. Right. Should we talk about Death, though? No. Next episode.

Next episode's a Death bonus, and we'll also talk about the film Singles. Singles, which I've never seen. I've seen it. I used to own it on DVD. I don't know why. That was the period of time where if I saw a movie on TV

and I gave it a six, I would then buy it at Best Buy. Singles, Matt Dillon and Keira Sedgwick and Campbell Scott. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, rock radio. Only acting, accredited acting appearance by Tim Burton.

Weird. Yeah, get ready. It's a weird movie. Okay, this was fun. This was good. I love this movie. I'm glad we talked about it. Me too.

We pod a cast, and we're going to continue podding casts for you folks. We're the two friends. Thanks for listening. Rate, review, subscribe, email us, tweet at us. We won't respond, but we'll notice. And two friends. Thanks for listening. Rate, review, subscribe, emails, tweet at us. We won't respond, but we'll notice. And as always.

And as always. In your eyes. The light, the heat in your eyes. David, come on. I am complete in your eyes. I see the doorway to a thousand churches in your eyes. The resolution of all the

fruitless searches in your eyes. In your eyes. Your eyes. Your eyes. Your eyes. Your eyes.

In your eyes. In your eyes. In your eyes. In your eyes. Can't believe David's missing out on this. We're having a great time. Sweet vocals. This has been a UCB Comedy Production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.