Blank Check with Griffin & David - Sense8

Episode Date: June 3, 2016

Nearing the end of the Wachowski mini series, this week Griffin and David discuss the most recent project by the prolific filmmakers, 2015’s Netflix series Sense8. But is it worth binging all twelve hour long episodes in a few days? What are the hosts thoughts on peak TV? Who doesn’t like a good Jean-Claude Van Damme pun? Together #thetwofriends examine season one’s major plot points, breakdown all the eight sensates different skills, appreciate the convenience of science bombs and try to make sense of the villain “Whispers.”

What is human? An ability to reason, to imagine, to love, or grieve? If so, we are more human than any podcast ever will be. What's the word you're replacing there? Human. I don't know. It's fucking... I don't... What quote was I going to use from this? That's the thing that Naveen Andrews says at the end of episode 11 when he's explaining to Will that they're more human. Hi everybody, my name's Griffiniffin newman i'm david sims this is a podcast called blank check with griffin and david okay colin the podchowski casters this is a movie podcast. We talk about directors. Movies. They've been given blank checks to make crazy projects because of

early successes. Yes. And we chart that whole fucking filmography. Pre-blank check. The blank check. Post-blank check. And we're in post now. We're at the last project. This is a blank check project for sure. No question. We're going to do a bonus episode, but this is the last Wachowski project.

This is the most recent Wachowski project to date. That's what we're talking about. Wachowskis. Yeah, this is called the Podchowski Casters. Yeah, in case you didn't get the title. I did say that. Oh, you did? I forgot.

I did. I'm so tired from this show. Okay, so David and I both crammed this show in. We both stayed up late last night. Do you want to know what I- The show is called Sensate. The show is called Sensate. Yes, it's a 12-episode Netflix drama.

I'm sorry, a Netflix original drama. Netflix original series. It's a drama, 12-episode first season is what we were talking about today. Yeah, each episode is give or take an hour long. Most of them a little bit over. Oh, yeah. Both of us sort of got cocky, I think, in our ability to or take an hour long. Most of them a little bit over. Oh, yeah. Both of us sort of got cocky, I think, in our ability to finish this. We did.

I finished it. Finished it this morning. We did finish it, but I'm saying we lost a lot of sleep finishing it in time for this episode. Yeah. Here's what I did because I'm an idiot. This was my strategy. I'm an idiot. My strategy was watch an episode and take like a 20 minute nap and watch another episode.

That's a weird strategy. I like didn't sleep last night. I just took little mini naps in between episodes. I have a lot to say about this. I do too. Okay, so. Hi guys. Hi guys. How are you doing? I hope you're all doing well. Yes. Nice to see you again. We're not seeing you.

Nice to talk to you. Nice to talk to you again. It's a privilege. An honor and a privilege. We, you know, last week covered the film Jupiter Ascending. That film is two hours and seven minutes long. Yeah, right. Nice length for a film. Our episode on that film was two hours and seven minutes long. Very good.

A friend of the podcast, Lex, pointed out that it was the exact same runtime. She was like, was that intentional? I was like, no, we just were very indulgent. We really were. Really were. But the point is, today we're covering Sense8, which is a combined 13 hours long. It's probably not that long. It's like 12 hours long.

12.30? A tight 12.30? It's long. It's like 12 hours long. 1230? A tight 1230? It's long. We're covering the whole season. We basically watched six movies in a week. Yeah. That's what I was saying to Griffin before we started this. Now, David, you've worked as a TV critic before.

Yeah. Yeah. I am a, yeah. I've done a lot of TV criticism over the years. You've had experience binging shows. Yeah. This, I mean, people, this is the thing. It's like, we're like, oh my God, we watched a whole show in a week.

And so many people, I think, are like, I do that all the time. I binge a show all the time. I never binge. Yeah. I don't either. Once in a while, maybe a comedy show. Like when Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt pops out, I'll watch that pretty fast, probably within a week. But not like in a day or in a couple, in a weekend or whatever.

See, I'm a meticulous watcher. I like to watch an episode and pour myself a cup of tea, process it, you know? When I was in college, I would binge a lot of stuff. There's one time I remember like really, two times I believe I really full force binged a show. One was- Sensei. Well, now, this is the third one. One was my roommates had watched all but the last episode of The Jinx.

Mm-hmm. That was just six episodes. Right, but when the finale of The Jinx was airing, they were like, Griff, you've got to watch this thing before the finale airs because the ending's crazy. And I didn't want to be spoiled for it. Or they had watched all of it. And the next morning they were like, watch it before anyone spoils it

because I watched all six episodes in one day. But once again like six episodes. And very gripping. Very gripping. Right. Very gripping. I was very depressed alone in a hotel room in a town where I didn't know anybody and I watched all of the Netflix Arrested Development season like straight through. Sorry. Which was tough.

Sorry about it. But both of those were like weird conditions and this was also a weird condition yeah i definitely now having watched it like i ideally would watch an episode of this show wait maybe a couple of weeks watch another one yeah i actually try not to ever watch back-to-back episodes of these hour-long i have a lot of thoughts on quote unquote like peak tv and all this stuff and i do think this show is emblematic in every way of the indulgences of that phenomenon of what's happening in the world of television i agree here's something i think is is uh no i liked the show i actually did i appreciated

it and i think it it occupies a wonderful spot in pop culture that is pretty underrepresented. Here's my capsule review of it, okay? Before we dig into it. It's exhausting. It's an exhausting show. My point is this isn't going to be that much of a recap episode because, A, it's not really a show you can recap. We usually recap plots of the movies we're talking about. I think we could genuinely recap it in 20 minutes.

Okay. At least very broad strokes, but go on. of the movies we're talking about. I think we could genuinely recap it in like 20 minutes. I mean, at least very broad strokes. But go on. And then, so I think I might be talking more general. Here's my capsule thought on the show, okay? I think what the show does well, it not only does better than any other show,

but is aiming to do things differently than any other show has ever done. You know? So I give it big gold star for that. Much like any Wachowski project, it is overreaching, and you applaud its overreach. And I think it's the least well-executed of anything they've ever made. Yeah, I think it has a lot of the growing pains that probably comes with a switch to a different format.

Yeah, yeah. And the lack of control, I think, that is evident in all of these Netflix shows, where Netflix is kind of very indulgent of their creators, which is, you know, good and bad, and they're just like, you know, make the thing you want to make. And so... They give you your leash, and you can hang yourself by it if you want.

And the Wachowskis are great filmmakers, but TV is a very different medium than film. Yeah. And certain people are suited for it and other people are not. And some of their strengths shine through in this, but in some ways this medium is tough for them. I mean, I was reading a lot of Jupiter Ascending pieces in the last week since we recorded our episode. Sure, sure. And I read a long one, a listener tweeted at us about the chase sequence. Yeah, I read it too, where they shot in six minute increments.

Right, that big chase sequence that we said took six months. It was like they liked the sunrise. Yeah, so they shot this six minutes every day when the light was right. Yeah, so they did like six minutes of that scene per day. So it was correct, they did it for six months. Yeah, it just wasn't six months straight. But like, okay, so you look at that type of thing. And then you also look at, talk about Jupiter Ascending.

They were like, how'd this idea come about? And they were like, well, it was an interview they had done. And they were like, well, we had this idea before Cloud Atlas. And then after Cloud Atlas was done, we really got serious about it. But like the first two years when we had the idea before Cloud Atlas, we were really just doing design work. Right. Like we did two years of just design work trying to figure out the look of the thing before we even wrote it. And it's like, okay, that's the meticulousness with which the Wachowskis like to craft stuff.

Sure. If you're making 12 plus hours of content, you can't be that precious about it because you have to make a lot more. Yeah, I guess so. But that's not how they think about this at all. No, but I think, I mean, here's the thing. It's not that I think they were like, okay, we'll lose some battles. We don't care. But I do think having worked a lot in TV, right?

Mm-hmm. There is, working in TV has made me understand why some TV feels really sloppy. Uh-huh. Because it is this, like, speeding train medium. Right. You have one episode that you have to finish by a certain day because the next episode has to start up right after that. And you have a different director doing the next episode.

They did seven out of 12. Yeah, this is, I would say, I think everything you're saying is true, but also this did not obey the traditional formulas of TV production. I know, I know. And that's, you know, it's not completely beholden to that. No. But I do see a bit of that where there are like certain sequences. I think it's less visually ambitious than they usually are.

Yes. Because they don't have the time to shoot six minutes a day for six months. Okay, but it is visually ambitious in another way that's unprecedented for TV, which is that it's shot all over the world, which is crazy, and I don't know how they accomplish it. I don't either, but I think they made that decision, which is huge, and gives the show a lot of power. And I think in making that decision, they lost another battle,

which is like some of these scenes feel like one-takers. Oh, that's possible. Do you know what I'm saying? Well, let's get into this show. Okay, let's get into this show. Because I feel like now we're just getting into nitty-gritty without actually talking about the show.

But there's another guy I want to bring into our discussion. Right now, this is a very dry discussion. Yeah, let's get out of the dry. Come on, come on. Yeah, we gotta get some bits in here. Just one thing. This show was ordered for 10,

and they convinced Netflix to give them two extra episodes. Okay, well fuck that because I lost two hours of sleep last night because of the extra two. It's not like they had to fill. Like they had so much they wanted to do that they pushed it out. Which, once you watch the show,

the show has a lot of stuff that is not propulsive in terms of plot, I guess is the best way to say it. I feel like it could have been six or eight episodes. I think this could have been very easily a two and a half hour film. I do too.

Yeah. 100%. I read an interview where they said that when they came to Straczynski, because Straczynski wrote every episode of Babylon 5, right? Yeah, he's a psychopath. Right. So the three of them wrote the whole season together. They went to him because they were like, we don't have experience in tv and writing this much this fast

you know can you help us with this and he said that they apparently pitched him a five season arc well yeah well also you know Babylon 5 was the same right on 5 was literally he wrote like five seasons and he was like it ends after five seasons asked. Now, what's weird is that this show feels like it could be a tight movie. He wrote 92 out of 110 episodes. Sorry. Okay. For the record. A bad one.

Five. Watching the series, you're like. I mean, it's his, you know, vision. The first seven episodes are so slow in so many ways that you're like, okay, but when this thing comes together, it's going to really pop. And then the way the season ends is just sort of like, well, that's the end of that season. Yep. More to come.

Right. Okay. This show should have ended with episode 10. All right. You want to introduce producer Ben. Well, spoiler alert. Yeah. Producer Ben.

That's his name. Ben Hosley. Hello. The end. The end. The book closes. Wow. Griffin's giving me as close to an angry look as I've ever seen him give me.

It's more of like just a look, but for Griffin, it's pretty angry. Because I'm usually ear to ear grinning. Hey, fennel friends. How's everybody doing? So this is Ben Hosley. He's our producer. Yeah. He has a couple other names.

You can call him Producer Ben. That is a type, right? I mean, I'm not stepping out of line if I say you can call him Producer Ben. You said he's our producer and his name is Ben. That's not being silly, right? Yes mean, I'm not stepping out of line if I say you can call him Producer Ben. No, not at all. You said he's our producer and his name is Ben. That's not being silly, right? Yes, and I'm fine with that. I don't like Professor Crispy. Well, no, of course not.

I just want to say that. I think logically you could also call him the Ben Ducer because that's just a nice portmanteau of his title and his name, right? True, very true. And then Perdue or Ben was maybe a typo that he made once and we ran with it. No, I think you invented that. No, that was back from talking TCGS. Oh, okay.

He emailed us and said Purdue or Ben and we made fun of him for that. Well, no, it was in the credits. It was in the credits. Yeah, of the Chris Gethard Show. They spelled my name wrong. Right, that's what it was. JD typed his name in wrong on the credits of the Chris Gethard Show and called him Purdue or Ben and then JD defended it by saying that that was intentional because he's a pro-doer.

Yes. So that's, of course, though, I could call him those three names, right? That's not annoying you to call me on those three names? Not at all. You could also call him the tiebreaker, birthday Benny, Mr. Positive, the poet laureate, the fuck master, not Professor Crispy as we've cleanly stated. The fuck master. Not Professor Crispy, as we've cleanly stated.

He already said a shout out to his fennel friends, but you could call him a shout out to Hello Fennel when you see him on the streets. Yes. Or see him in the sheets. Oh, boy. You know, when we go through a miniseries, he graduates to a different title. Oh, right. We're going to debut the new title. Are we?

For this miniseries. Ben Night Shyamalan. That's the new title for this miniseries. Ben Nyshamalon. That's the old one. Producer Ben Kenobi. Yeah, sure. Kylo Ben. Yes. And I think by popular demand, we accepted a lot of suggestions from our Twitter followers.

I think the one that went, I'm so tired. I think the one that won is the Merovingian. Merovingian or Benevingian. We're going to have to put this to the crowd. We have a bonus episode coming up. That's true. There's not enough definitive. I will also say

this bit is really building out names. I don't know if that one rolls off the tongue. It's going to be kind of tough. Benevingian. Benevingian. Okay. I'll say this, though. Our poll did end today

for our next miniseries. Yeah, I'm actually, I've got it right here. But, you know, I don't think this poll is binding. That's all I'm going to say. But I will read out the results. Okay.

Just because it's kind of close. Yeah. You know, so bring it up the rear. How many votes did we get in total? 314. Okay. A gentleman's 314. up the rear. How many votes did we get in total? 314. Okay. A gentleman's 314.

Oh, okay. This is to, we're all over the place in this episode. Yeah, no, you guys should get into it. I just want to say to the listeners, though, I did not watch any more than the first episode. So you only watched the first episode, but you developed your theories of what you assumed would happen in the rest of the season, right? Yes, I do have, I wrote down some predictions, and so we could later in the episode, we'll check in on those, but I think, yeah, let's just jump in on that part.

So you're not trying to be funny here. You wrote them down, they're locked in. They're locked in. PricewaterhouseCooper has them. Let's not do a Neil Patrick Harris here. Let's not put it in a glass box on the stage or whatever. We got it. He'll make some predictions.

It's in a plexiglass box. And he'll make some predictions. Okay. Results. Oh, yeah. So, you know, we're almost done with the Wachowskis. We're going to do another filmmaker next. We're going to do lots of filmmakers, guys.

Yeah. Okay. So people are suggesting. Here's the thing that I've seen a lot of on Twitter in the last week. Why wasn't this person included in the poll? We got a long list. Don't worry about it. They've occurred to us.

There are very few people that have been suggested that we haven't thought of because we're playing this out. This is a fucking evergreen franchise. We're not doing Peter Jackson. Why not?

For a long time. Because we'd have to watch three Hobbit movies. Yeah, but I kind of love that idea. I kind of love that idea, but I don't know that our viewers,

our listeners are going to love that idea. I don't know. I think people want, they need a cathartic, an exorcism of those, but I don't know that our listeners are going to love that idea. I don't know. I think people need a cathartic, an exorcism of those films. I don't know. We'll do them at some point. Potter, Jack Cast. That's an even better reason not to do them.

Potter, Caston. The podcast of the rings or whatever. Yeah. Okay, so bringing up the rear in our poll was Catherine Bigelow, which you spelt wrong, by the way. Good job. I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

16% of the vote. Yeah, classic patriarchy. I misspelled her name and no one voted for her. Number three, Shane Black with 18% of the vote. I'm surprised Black beat Bigelow. I thought Bigelow was going to come in third. It's a little rude. Yeah, because Black's a bit of a strange suggestion,

even though I love it. Yeah, but that was an oddball. Number two is Cameron Crowe with 30% of the vote. I mean, that's the guy we were pushing for, I think, in our hearts. And then number one is James Cameron with 36% of the vote. I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

No, I say we do Cameron Crowe. We can talk about it. And then Cameron. Look, I'd say, here, lock it down in your books. Our next two miniseries are going to be Cameron and Cameron. Cameron and Cameron. Order to be decided later. I agree. But we're going to do the two Camerons.

What are we going to call them? Cameron and Cameron. We are the two friends. We're the two friends. We forgot to mention that. You know what's a thing I want to start doing, I feel like? Because I was looking at all our candidates of these potential podcast topics, and most of them don't have a clean name, like Pachowski casters, that you can work in with their name. It's true.

Yeah. So I think what we might have to start doing is like making the miniseries title a like podcastification of like a famous quote from one of their movies or like the title of one of them do you know what i'm saying yeah i do we might have to do like pod the cast of the world or something you know not that though pod the king of the cast Not that either Podcast me at hello Sure You had me at podcast

Pod me the cast You had me at podcasting You had me at podcasting Show me the podcast Show me the podcast Show me the podcast Oh my god sensei Okay right okay

Here we go So I'm gonna sum it up Gonna do it real fast Okay great Just listen to me Oh my god, Sense8. Okay, right. Here we go. So I'm going to sum it up. I'm going to do it real fast. Just listen to me. Focus on my voice. I'm going to drink some water while you're talking. Sense8 is about eight different people around the world who are all born at the exact same moment

and are mentally linked through some sort of supernatural or evolutionary power in their brains. And these people are a depressed Icelandic DJ, a Chicago cop, a Kenyan bus driver, a Berlin lock, like, you know, like safe cracker, like a diamond thief. Yeah. A Indian, like, graduate student or, like, lab worker? No, she works at the company. Yeah, right?

What company? Indian? Yeah? What company? Indian? Yeah. What company? Her fiance's company? No, I don't think so. Isn't that where they met?

Doesn't she say that? I thought they met at school, but I can't remember. She's like a scientist of some sort who is getting married to somebody. She's engaged to a man. Very wealthy man. Yep. A Mexican actor who lives in the closet. Yes. But is like a sort of a male hunk star. Hisigible bachelor. A Mexican actor who lives in the closet. Yes. But is like a sort of a male hunk star.

His sex symbol. Yes. To women. They don't know that he likes one man in particular. His love of his life. Yes. And a trans woman hacktivist who lives in San Francisco. Yeah.

With her girlfriend. Yeah. Those are the eight people who are all linked. They are all sensates. Yeah. Those are the eight people who are all linked. They are all sensates. They are all part of a cluster that like so many things in life was activated by the suicide of Daryl Hanna.

Can we talk about like a cushy job? Daryl Hanna is like technically a regular on this show. Credited in every episode. She's barely in this show. But that means that she gets paid for every episode. I assume so. That's how that works. That's usually how it works.

So she's got one really tough scene. She's got this opening scene where she kills herself. It's very sad. That's tough, and it probably took her a couple days to sleep that one off. But then she just got 12 episodes of Pim. She pops up literally silently in some episodes, but like I don't know that she says another word.

That's a really good joke. I'm sorry I didn't laugh harder. Oh, my Daryl Hannah joke? Yeah, I'm so tired. Oh, it wasn't that good. No, I think it's really fine. Now I'm thinking about it. I'm just too tired to laugh. You know, it's just like that classic thing. It's like, how'd you get your job? Well, Daryl Hannah committed suicide. I feel like, did I already

say this? I feel like we crammed for a test. I feel like I like- Yeah, you said that on Twitter, and I think that's fair. Yeah, it feels like finals. All right, so this is interesting. I'm actually, I think I'm way more balanced. I watch about two episodes a night of this show. Right.

So I actually, even though I, you know, it was a slog, like a little bit of a slog. I don't think I was quite as worn out as you. You're literally like, your eyes are twitching at me right now. Yeah, I'm not doing great. So the thing about the show is I just told you what the show is about. It's about these eight people who are linked. They've all got

plots that are kind of spinning the whole time. Some of them are a little more specific. Like a couple of these characters are sort of mixed up with a criminal underworld. There's some really soapy kind of crazy stuff in another couple of, you know. And then some of them don't really do a ton at all, but they're just kind of hanging out.

And they all begin to like visit each other in each other's brains and share each other's memories. And they can share each other's skills. And they can help each other out. They've all got kind of like a special gift. Like one of them can crack a safe. One of them's a kickboxer. One of them is a hacker. You know, like they've all got these.

One of them's an actor. He's good at pretending. Yeah, David's gesturing to me. I guess I am, yeah. Yeah. One of them's a cop, you know, and he can pick a handcuff. It's like, what if Ocean's Eleven was Sense8

and they could all become one person with all those skills in one person and naveen andrews a wonderful actor who i adore yeah uh is kind of their yoda he's someone from another cluster who for some reason is in all their heads i guess because they all saw him because he was with daryl hannah i don't know yeah and so he's kind of trying to nudge them along into figuring out how to use their powers but here's I mean I was talking to my friend Todd Vanderwerf who is my former colleague at the AV club when we wrote about TV together now he works at Vox about this show and we were saying did he cover the show he's seen it okay I think he wrote about

it yeah and we were saying what worked about and and what didn't. He was like, the show should be like every episode is like, oh no, a problem. I'm eight people. And then like they deal with that in a cool way. Agreed. You know what? How to deal with this problem is that I'm eight people and whoa, that's crazy. What you want to see is the adult

version of Voltron. You're stepping on Ben's toes there. Oh my god. Really? Yeah. Yeah, of course. I was like, maybe they all come together

into one big person, like Voltron. So that, we've already hit one of my points. Ben, great minds think alike. Are you guys sensates? Maybe.

Oh God. So the show doesn't do much of that. It does a little of that, but it doesn't... That's not the core premise of the show. It's just like one moment of that per episode. Here's what the show is about. Yeah. We should all be nice to each other and empathetic

because we are a collective being, and humanity, it's not good to be nice to each other. Right, which is the overarching thesis of all Wachowski stuff. Right, right. And so watching them hit the same point again on this one, it's not good to be nice to each other. Right, which is the overarching thesis of all Wachowski stuff. Right, right. And so, like, watching them hit the same point again on this one, even though they hit it from some different angles, and it's kind of an inverse of the Cloud Atlas thing,

where it's like, what if each actor is six people? Right. It's like, what if each actor is one part of... One-eighth of a person. Right, exactly. But they are all their own people. When it's stretched out this long it's 12 episodes you sort of go like yeah i get i've seen the other wachowski movies i get the point here there's this thing that roger ebert used to say that he thinks he thought he thought because he's dead now he thought that the most

like david's making his frowny face good man dead man. He would argue that the most powerful use of cinema as an art form was as an empathy machine. Yeah, absolutely. He was like, that's this amazing thing that movies can do, is they can put you in someone else's shoes, in someone else's head, in their emotions, for two hours, give or take. And that's what films can do. And I feel like the Wachowskis really take that to heart. And this whole, like, we're all connected thing that they've been getting at i think is less about like hey it doesn't matter we're all the same person like it's not about wiping out

our cultures our backgrounds our races our genders but it's about like you know you don't know what it's like to be another person but you should empathize with every other person's struggles because we're all human and we all feel whatever we're feeling, right? Yeah. Which this film, this show hits it really hard. Part of that's because it doesn't have the same sort of

blockbuster constraints that all their other work does. No. Usually working in like big $100 million plus films that need to play in a certain way. Yeah. Although Cloud Atlas not so much. Doesn't play

in a certain way. They still wanted that movie to do well. No I know I know it's just Cloud Atlas doesn't have like action sequences quite as frequently or whatever but go on carry on. I mean the whole Neo Soul sequence is pretty action Yeah but that's one sequence. Well yeah and the other thing is when you look at Cloud Atlas and it's like six stories and they got it done in three hours.

Sure, right. You know, that movie feels pretty brisk after watching this show. Yes, it does. Because it's like six and three. So you go like eight and maybe get it done in four. And they're like, nope, 12. The thing is the show is not as sci-fi as it sounds. It's really not.

It's more of a soapy melodrama, like just a straight up... It's funny because Straczynski, he writes a lot of stuff. Obviously, he's worked in many genres, but he's a sci-fi guy. And he even wrote comics for a while. He wrote Spider-Man for a while.

He works in high genre. And this is just not that at all. It's really not. The only sci-fi concept is this idea of sort of sharing each other's brains, which is very vague and like not explained. Like the specifics of it are kept

pretty low. It feels like that's like 10% of each episode until the last three where it becomes the overarching thing. So, I mean I have a problem with peak TV. I'm like a TV critic. I've been a TV I have a problem with peak TV. Okay, get into it. I'm like a TV critic. I've been a TV critic for almost 10 years.

Congratulations. Happy anniversary. Longer than 10 years. What am I saying? Jesus, I'm so old. And I've been writing about TV for a long time, and I think that now, you know, anyone, it's boring to note, you know,

there's literally three times as many scripted shows as there were, like, when I started doing this. There's so much original TV. Yeah. And there's all three times as many scripted shows as there were when I started doing this. There's so much original TV. And there's all these networks where you can do anything you want. Like Amazon, you know, with the tick premiering in August on Amazon. Exactly. And so it's encouraged

this incredibly slow brand of storytelling that I understand it's like an interesting thing. I don't know. I'm not going to really defend it. It drives me crazy. I've written whole articles about this. The Path, which was a recent

Hulu drama, was the most recent example of this really pissing me off where I watched the pilot and I was like, I feel like I just watched 10 minutes of a pilot, but it was an hour. Do this faster. You know, like, do this faster.

We know what's gonna happen. I agree 100%. I'm getting to a point here where I'm gonna restate some obvious stuff, but in the name of making a larger point here, okay? Used to be TV was a thing where if you weren't sitting on your couch the time the thing aired, you missed it. True your couch the time the thing aired you missed it

true so TV by design had to be loose enough that you could well sure catch up that you wouldn't have to watch

six seasons of something just to understand what was going on right so the design of TV was make every episode as interesting as it can be sure but also

pretty contained right but that was the thing it was like each episode should work as it's own thing so if that's the only episode you ever see maybe you'll be a little lost but also pretty contained. Right, but that was the thing. It was like each episode should work as its own thing. So if that's the only episode you ever see, maybe you'll be a little lost, but you'll enjoy the ride. It's like, what's the show Law and Order? Okay, I get it. Law and Order.

Ben Hosley. I mean, you know, but then they added criminal intent and special effects. That's a little more complicated. But still, it's pretty straightforward. It's a little more complicated. You know what I'm saying? It's pretty straightforward. But, you know, they start adding, there's obviously long been soapier shows. Sure.

Like Dallas or, you know, sci-fi shows, things like, you know, that have a running story. Agreed. And the gamut of those shows was, can we make an appointment television where they have to watch it every week? But the show still had to be designed where each episode worked on its own. Even if there was a larger narrative, each episode worked on its own. You're making one episode at a time. I get what you're saying.

Then you look at Peak TV, and it's not my favorite show, but it's obviously thrown out a lot of platonic ideal of modern television. You look at Breaking Bad, right? I think the great success of Breaking Bad is the larger narrative over the course of all those seasons is great. Each season has its own mini-n mini narrative, what it's focused on.

That's great. But also each episode works on its own. Yeah, well I would say that Breaking Bad is a pre-peak TV show. I would say it's more indebted to what we've all dubbed the golden age of television, which obeyed the structures that you are referring to. Right. Which is like self-contained, big season arcs that work. I think it's just, I'm very nerdy about this show.

I think it's something that Joss Whedon pioneered working from the serial structures of shows like The X-Files. The X-Files is still mostly not serial. Like most episodes are their own thing. Yeah. Whereas like Joss Whedon was like, we're going to have a running story in every season. It's going to be a big thing at the end. It's going to be connected, you know, a little more loosely in each episode. It's its own thing, big thing at the end. It's going to be connected a little more loosely

and each episode's its own thing, like you say. And Breaking Bad does that too. And a million other shows do it. Each season is a volume and each episode's a chapter. And they're all part of a larger series. And this is, I feel like, what governs so many of the shows that have sparked this new movement.

The shows like The Sopranos, like fucking Mad Men, I don't know. All these shows. The Wire is the one that... And then people... Netflix comes around. DVRs come around. And people start watching them

kind of in these big chunks. Right. You know? Ooh. All of a sudden it's like, don't have to watch it when it airs. Lost is a great example. And people start writing to that with the assumption that

you can go back and rewind. Where's the money? But yes. But also that when you're on episode 8 you won't have a hard time remembering what happened in episode 1 because it wasn't 8 weeks ago. It was 7 hours ago. Right.

I think Breaking Bad is a better example of that than that. Because like you say, Breaking Bad, you know, makes sure that the episode has some fun. Yeah. Like within. Yeah. This show, I think, succeeds on a macro level and fails on a micro level. Yeah. Like having watched the whole season I really appreciate

this series. That having been said I don't think any one episode of this show functions very well as an episode of television. I mean not really.

I don't not really. These episodes don't have like real arcs in and of themselves. There's just like a collection of scenes and it starts at one point

and it ends at another point and then the next episode starts up. You know? They sometimes will have an ending that's shocking, like it'll be like oh my god, caught two credits. The dad got stabbed. Which feels like a cliffhanger just to get you to press

play on the next episode immediately. Yes, which I think is something Netflix likes out of its shows. Yes, 100%. But like, you could go with this format, right? Knowing that people are going to binge it and also the idea of this show, you could see them being like, Sense8, each episode's focused on

one person. Sure. Sort of a lost strategy or skins. A lot of shows that you see that each episode would be about one character. Or even like Cloud Atlas,

if the idea is like, these characters are going through similar struggles in their life, each episode is all eight characters dealing with their parents. Sure.

And the next episode's all eight characters dealing with, you're and the next episode's all eight characters dealing with you're moving forward in time but it's these sort of thematic links or whatever you know yeah sensei doesn't really do that at all no and and there's even this thing i mean i was impressed at the beginning the episode when you very quickly stated i know you were reading off your wikipedia but you very quickly stated all eight people and what their basic conflicts were because there was a game i was playing with myself while watching the show. And I want to restate, I like this series, but I find it frustrating in a lot of ways, right? There were a lot of times, David's giving a big thumbs up. He wants to reassert that he also likes the show and only watched one episode.

I mean, it was okay. There were a bunch of points in the show where I was watching an episode and I would just stop and go, okay, speed round, can you name the other seven characters? And I couldn't do it. Like, when I was

on a scene, I would go like, fuck, okay, and I remember four right off the top of my head, but like, some episodes Duna Bay's in it for two shots. No, yeah, for sure. You know, like, some episodes' characters aren't covered at all, and it doesn't feel like it feels arbitrary which character It's totally arbitrary. There's no thematic it's

not like the episode will open on wolfgang and you're like oh this is gonna be a wolfgang episode right you might get 10 minutes of him and then he's kind of not in the rest of the episode right or something you know like they'll kind of pop in and out yeah and you also have like this idea that all these like sensates are being activated right like their bond their cluster bond is starting to like really activate at this point. But like some of them, like Nomi's arc is all about her coming to terms with being a sensei with these sort of evil forces

trying to kick it out of her mind, right? And control her. Yeah, Nomi's arc is resolved by episode four or something. Which is crazy. I'd say six maybe. Whatever, but like some of them, Nomi has basically gone through the major thing

halfway through the show whereas Riley Tuppence Middleton's character doesn't do anything. No. For ten episodes. She witnesses a murder in episode one. She witnesses a murder in episode one. But after that she literally sits in coffee shops looking depressed saying almost nothing. Right.

And then and then like and then a lot of shit happens all of a sudden duna bay's character doesn't even go to jail until episode seven she doesn't even kickbox until episode three yeah she's just a businesswoman in the first two episodes and you're just like okay well why are we cutting to her like what's her deal there's stuff like that and like watching this made me respect cloud atlas even more because like you have wildly different plot lines in that movie. Right. And some of the stakes are a lot higher than others.

Like the Neo Soul plot line is like this is do or die. Right. Whereas like the Timothy Cavendish plot line is like I hope he gets out. Don't really care. You know but it's like it's goofy fun. But like that movie works of like just the way they weave all the stories together in a propulsive way and they have these sort of echoes and these handshakes but they're also sort of like rhythmically like here's three chases going on at the same time so the propulsiveness of one chase

carries over to the other there's a problem in this did you see uh it was fucking one of the best documentary short nominees last year probably not which was Which was Claude Landesman, Shadow of Shoah. No, I didn't see that. Okay. I mean, I've heard about it. So it's a 40-minute short documentary about Claude Landesman, the documentary filmmaker, making Shoah the documentary. So it's already a documentary about a documentary, right?

Shoah, of course, is this eight-hour. If not longer. Right. Shoah, of course, is this eight-hour... If not longer. Right, like probing, like sort of super complete... Work on the Holocaust. Yeah, devastating film about the Holocaust. And this is a 40-minute movie about him talking about how difficult it was to make Shoah.

And I, like, hate this movie, right? You hate the documentary, sure. Yeah, Shoah, great. Good work. Love it. Hate the Holocaust. Love Shoah, good work love it hate the Holocaust love Shoah right okay the Shadows of Shoah movie

I kept on getting so fucking irritating watching it because through all these scenes where Claude Lannisman is like it was a very tough day from that day we lost an entire roll of footage and it's like yeah but that footage was about the Holocaust like perspective man you know

and I'm not saying that like everyone's struggles aren't important and tough when you're dealing with them. But in this movie that's cutting between the footage of Shoah where it's people talking about the concentration camps and Claude Landisman being like, and then a light broke. You're just sort of like, get over it, dude. All right. And I think Sense8 has a little bit of this problem. Oh, well, where we're cutting from, like, someone's got a gun to their head and then it'll cut to like, I don't know, traffic.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, sometimes it does that. And that's like part of like these stories being stretched over 12 hours and there being a lot of filler. It feels like,

it feels like they decided in advance, like this is what the arc of the season is. Let's make it 12 episodes. And then they worked really slowly to get to that end point. I guess so. But, yeah,

I don't know. I mean, there are entire things that characters go through that could be removed from the season that would have no bearing on the story.

You know, it's like. They want it to happen. They want to have those experiences. and they want the kaleidoscopic. This is so much about experiences,

I guess. And like, you know, I mean, yeah, I mean, I can't argue with you. And like, you know, I mean, yeah. I mean, I can't argue with you. The funny, I watched, so I watched this whole season this week. I watched, this is an interesting, it's almost an interesting sort of experiment.

Because through just random fact that I needed to have this shit on a lot in my home, I watched episode four, which is called What's Going On, and it's my favorite episode of the show. I mean, I can hardly differentiate. You'll know what I'm talking about in a home. I watched episode four, which is called What's Going On, and it's my favorite episode of the show. I mean, I can hardly differentiate. You'll know what I'm talking about in a second. With my roommate Molly. And then later, I watched episode nine, which is called Death Doesn't Let You Say Goodbye.

It might be my least favorite episode with my girlfriend. And they did not see any other part of the show. And so episode four, What's Going On, which i think is is it's definitely where the show kind of clicks or at least you feel i mean this is my other objection to these drawn out things it's like you've invested so much time that when something works you feel such a payoff because you're just like oh good like good good yeah that's the one that ends with them listening to With Tuppence listening to What's Up by Four Nights at the Blonde

And then they all sing it And it's wonderful And it's also you've been waiting for them all To link up a little more Like they've only been sort of visiting each other Like one at a time And it's the first time that gives you a sense that they're all connected And it's obviously

It's just a very good idea It's just them all singing this song And a couple of them start dancing with each other and also there's brains like it's more literal a more literal version of this because they are legitimately connected so they're all hearing the song in their heads at the same time because tupp and spinnelson is listening to it yes but it gets to this thing that wachowski's also hit really hard in a lot of their work and especially in this show, it comes up in four different ways as far as I'm concerned, which is the importance of art. Yes, absolutely.

They're always arguing for art as this unifying force. It brings us together. It gives us meaning. Definitely. Movies aren't frivolous, and Speed Racer's all about how movies aren't frivolous, right? Racing is important to people. And this you have how much Jeanan-claude van damme means to means to uh kyphus cyphus i just call him van damme uh yeah kyphus but he's the van driver yeah and the van damme driver right that's the thing he calls his van van damme in in nairobi

you see the the rival van is called bat van the idea is that all the vans sort of have like catchy names yes they're called matatus they're like It's like a common form of transportation in Kenya. And it's like they're all branded. They'll do this thing where they kind of try to attract. It's like a communal van into the city. Yeah, and they brand to make theirs look snappier or whatever. And it's not just, oh, Van Damme's a catchy thing. He's watching Van Damme movies all the time.

He looks at Van Damme for inspiration, how he can overcome anything. A focus he has, Van Damme is like his guy. And then in the German safecracker plot, they view Conan the Barbarian the exact same way is. Van Damme is like his guy. And then in the German safecracker plot they view Conan the Barbarian the exact same way he views Van Damme. Yep.

And then there's another one. What is it. There's so many. Yeah. I mean there's the song connecting them all there. Well I'll say in the ninth

episode. Yeah. Which is so I don't mean I think Molly although she was completely baffled by whatever the fuck the show was. Sorry to interrupt just

before I forget. The other one is how everyone else in the Lido storyline talks about how much his movies influence them. That he feels like the movies he's making are silly and people quote back to him lines from his movies. Right, yeah, that's a good call. Thank you. You're welcome. But, I mean, the fourth episode was arresting enough that I feel like my roommate was kind of like, all right. Yeah, especially that ending is really transcendent.

It was resting enough that I feel like my roommate was kind of like, all right. Especially that ending is really transcendent. The ninth episode is the one where everything grinds to a halt. Yeah. Like if you thought the show was slow before, it gets super slow. It's when Lito is depressed about his boyfriend leaving him. Oh, you mean when he loses a sandal in the pool? In the bathtub?

That's right. Yeah. And like there's a whole scene where he talks to Nomi in the Diego Rivera Museum in Mexico City, and they're beholding a giant Diego Rivera painting. And that's the art thing that I was bringing. They're talking about the importance of that, which is an interesting little exchange, but it is molasses slow.

Yeah, it's like a 15-minute exchange. And she's sharing these haunting memories of being bullied as a teen by boys in the shower because she was different. You know, like all this stuff. And you're just like, isn't this, aren't they being haunted by a corporation? You get so lost in all these feelings. And Joanna was similarly like, I don't know what the fuck this is. And she kept asking, like, why are they all speaking English? Which was similarly like I don't know what the fuck this is and she kept asking like why are they all speaking English which was a good question

yeah oh I want to write about this for a second but but then she and then her reaction was essentially what I said she's like so this show is just about like you should just care about people right like that's what the show is we all get it can we talk about the language thing for a second because this show

is incredibly diverse. Yeah. And it takes place in like five different countries? No, more. Six. Well, two take place in America. Yeah. Okay, yeah.

So it takes place in six different countries. It takes place in America, Iceland, with a stop in London, but mostly Iceland. First half's in London. Yeah, but she's just sitting in cafes. The action's in Iceland. First half's in London. Yeah, but she's just sitting in cafes. The action's in Iceland. Okay. America, Iceland, Korea, Kenya, Germany, India, Mexico.

Seven countries. Seven countries. So it takes place in seven countries, which is really impressive, and they shot in all those places. And eight if you include London, which is just a little bit of London. And you have this genuinely multinational cast.

Yep. And everyone speaks in English. Now there are things where within... Once in a while they'll speak in their own languages. Which drives me crazy. Because there'll be these moments, like the first couple moments when two characters are connecting in the early episodes. And they'll show up in the same place, and then one of them will be speaking in their language, and the

other one's speaking in their language, and it'll be subtitled in English. And then they'll be like, wait, do you in their language and it'll be subtitled in English and then they'll be like, wait, do you speak English? And they'll be like, yeah, I speak English too. Let's speak English together. There's one scene where that happens. There's one scene, I believe, with Leto and with Duna Bay's character where they see each other in the mirror.

I don't remember that. And he says in Spanish, who are you? And she says in Korean, who are you? But to me, the device the show is using is that English, they talk in English when they can understand each other. But they also talk in English in their respective things. No, but that's the thing.

Yeah, that's what Joanna kept at. She was like, but what do you mean? He should be talking in Korean right now. I don't like that as a device. I know it's a device, I don't like it as a device. I know the idea is we're hearing it in our language. As much as I understand what you're saying, there's no way you could do the show any other way. I disagree.

Do you want to know what I throw out as an example all the time? I thought it was going to be like a game changer and it didn't fucking do shit. Glorious Bastards is like 70% subtitled. That movie's like 70% foreign languages. That film takes place in German, English, and French. And the scenes that take place in the languages

where the characters wouldn't be speaking English, the whole first 20 minutes of Inglourious Bastards are not in English. But it wouldn't make any sense because then they would be speaking English to each other. You can't have them speaking in different languages to each other, and they speak so much to each other. So I think the show just has to set this thing of like, they've got to all speak English, because you can't have two actors talking to each other in they speak so much to each other. So I think the show just has to set this thing of like, they've got to all speak English

because you can't have two actors talking to each other in two languages they don't understand. See, I think they- Because they can't act off of each other. I think they speak in English to each other and in their respective plot lines, they speak in their native languages. That's how I would do it. That doesn't work because too often in this show, when they're in their respective plot

lines, someone's hanging out behind them talking in English. Okay, but there's a moment. Yeah, there's a couple moments. There's a moment where Kyphos talks to, I think, Tuppence Middleton. Yeah. And he like says whatever and she's like, what? I don't speak your language. And he's like, oh, do you speak English?

I'll speak English with you. Like he says that literally. That's not what happens. I remember this scene very precisely. She says, you speak English? And he says, yeah, I speak English very well. You speak Swahili? Because he thinks she's speaking Swahili.

And she's like, no. And it's just, they're trying to get you to understand that, like, these guys can understand each other on a deeper level beyond their languages. So, like, don't worry about the languages. It's, you know, it's a tough sell. I don't deny it. What can you do? It drives me a tough sell. I don't deny it. Yeah. What can you do? It drives me a little crazy, and especially when you get to the Duna Bay sequence

where she goes to prison, right? I think what we should do is maybe tackle them character by character because it's so weird. It's so weird. It's so hard to talk about. I'm going to do it character by character. Okay. All right, so we can start with Duna Bay,

who I think, again... Wonderful actress. What a great actress. Incredible. I think she gives the best performance in the show. I'd say she gives the second best performance. Who do you like better? I think Tuppence Middleton's really good and a character that's really underwritten.

I like Tuppence, think she's a good actress, but I do not agree. I think she gives a great performance, especially considering how slight her material is. Real slight. Yeah, I think her and Juna Bae are close. No, I think that in that scene in episode 10, which is where the show should end, where this show builds to this great climactic concert scene

where they're all mentally in a concert hall watching Tuppence Middleton's dad perform. On ecstasy. He's on ecstasy. And they all imagine their births. They all recall their births. Yeah, we see a lot of prosthetic vaginas. Yeah, we do.

We see a lot of... Can I say this? Some crazy births. Can I say this? So we all, you know, you get a health class. They play Miracle Life or some video like that. And they give you the indoctrination. They're like, hey, this is what it looks like when a birth happens.

And there's the thing where you're 10 and you go gross right right at the UCB famously if your show goes over time Shannon O'Neill artistic director

will play a video of a birth right I've seen birth videos a number of times I don't get grossed out by them anymore miracle of life

it's beautiful right I got so grossed out during this sequence because they're all fake like there was something really

gross to me these prosthetic bellies and these prosthetic like birthing canal. What are they supposed to do? I admired the effort of like actually showing it rather than the classic like, you know, Hollywood like, oh, look, a baby that's obviously a month old. I'm not criticizing the show for this. I may be criticizing myself. I'm saying for whatever reason, I have a weird piccadilly about prosthetic births. But it's like when you see

like a rubber baby head coming out of a rubber vagina out of like a rubber belly and there's like a real actress there. But wait, I was making a whole point. Okay, make a point. I was just saying

there's this big concert scene where they're all experiencing their births. Yeah. And they're like crying or having emotional reactions to it. Duna Bay, in that scene to me, I'm like, oh, look, look, there's there she is.

She's kicking ass and everyone else is just pretty good at it. You know, Duna Bay is a remarkably understated actress. Good face. She's very still, but she does very little. You know, I mean, she she just has a really strong command of her physicality. And she's very expressive. Yeah. But while being very still and being very minimal, she's an incredible actress. I agree 100%.

Her plot line takes seven episodes to go anywhere. Oh, totally. So let's do her one at a time. So Doona Bae. In literally the first two episodes, she's just a Korean businesswoman. Duna Bae. In literally the first two episodes, she's just a Korean businesswoman. There appears to be some sort of tension with her dad, who also works at the company.

But there's nothing. And you get maybe two scenes across the first two episodes. Very little Duna Bae. Yeah, barely in them. And then the third scene, it's like, oh, well, also, she's got a master splinter type sensei who is training her to be like an elite underground kickboxer right and you're like what's going on here and and it all plays into you kind of need someone who's gonna do like real sort of kick-ass action shit later in the show so that's kind of what it's there for that's her oceans 11 skill but it's honestly not remarked on much in terms of like

what drives her or whatever she doesn't really go and you know, I became a kickboxer because blah, blah, blah. No, it would make more sense character-wise for Wolfie to become a kickboxer. You know what I'm saying? Sure. Like in a traditional, dramatic way,

like he was beaten as a child so he learned to fight so he could defend himself. Dina Bay just likes punching people. Which is fine. I mean, I'm fine with that. That's fine.

And she's a kick-ass action lady and it's great. I'm not criticizing that. It works. It just kind of comes out of nowhere and you're like, oh, okay, that and she's kick-ass uh action lady and it's great i'm not criticizing that it's just it just it kind of comes out of nowhere and you're like oh okay i guess we're gonna she's gonna be a kickboxer right and then like two episodes later it's like by the way your brother who you have like this weird sort of like uh you know need to defend and protect because of your mother dying at a certain age the other thing the show does is it keeps flashing back yeah and you're like what wait is this a memory like you know because the show does

so many other visual characters flashing into each other's lives like the language of how the senses the sense hates like communicate with each other is just that like duna bay will be dealing with whatever in korea and then suddenly like tuppence middleton will be over her shoulder right or in her place or sitting next to her or like uh ddleton will be over her shoulder. Right. Or in her place or sitting next to her or like Duna Bay will be having her side of the conversation next to Tumpets Middleton in a cafe in London. Right. They'll use the locations, they'll cut between them

which is where being able to film in all these places is impressive. It's impressive. Because you're able to within a cut do this sort of like Sherlock Junior thing where they're like transporting across worlds. It's crazy. You'll see like they'll be talking in Kenya and then you literally cut for one reverse shot to Iceland and then right back. And you're just like

alright guys like we get it. It's cool. Which as an actor that must be so difficult because it's like you're shooting your scene in Kenya you fly him and then a week later they're like remember that one line? Just remember the one reaction you were doing in between these two lines and now let's do it in Reykjavik on top of a mountain oh my god I mean it's sort of impossible to imagine anyway so Juna

Bay has this connection to her brother who's been embezzling money she takes the fall for him and goes to prison this is all like real sudden yeah and this comes in episode six and you're just like huh yeah and then the latter half you've got the idea that her father and her brother don't really respect her that her mother's dead that she's constantly trying to win them over you know she has this our relationship and then they just drop on you her brother's a fucking piece of shit he's gonna go to jail and they're like you fucking disgraced me and she volunteers herself yeah she's like i got no record i could take the fall for this i get off easy i go to jail but i get off easy and you're just like why would you do that like don't do it

I don't know and like this is the thing as much as we're complaining about this show being long sometimes things will come right out of nowhere and be justified maybe with one little flashback you know and you're like oh give me a little more for to this make to make sense. Because they don't have the time to flesh out each story for how complicated they're trying to make

each story but each story like they're trying to make each story. But each story, like, they're trying to complicate in a way where it's like, Breaking Bad would have off episodes that weren't about him selling drugs, that were about something else, you know?

Yeah. And if that episode was, like, fully sort of painted, it didn't feel like it was like, oh, they're just killing time. It would feel like this is sort of another element of this world. But this show, when you do, like,

here's another side element of Duna Bay's world, this show when you do like here's another side element of duna bay's world it's like well that's gonna get two minutes of screen time well this is the thing she goes to prison yeah and then like you know we get like a couple little scenes of her in prison like kind of learning the life of a korean women's prison yeah but like it's inconsequential to say the least like she gets gets in a fight. She makes a friend. Right. But then that's kind of it. And then in like the last episode or maybe the penultimate. Second to last. Her brother shows up and he's like, P.S.

I killed our dad. He's like dad killed himself. And she's like, fuck you. You killed him. And then punches the shit out of him. Which is fine. Yeah, it's cathartic at that point. But again, it's all just.

And so that's her story. Yeah. And so she's like, I'm going to get revenge on you for killing our dad. The dad was maybe going to reveal the whole flim flam where she's in prison and the other isn't. He was. The lawyer said, like, he done it. It's happening. And she said, what's going to happen to my brother?

And he said, if I was him, I'd get in a plane right away because they're going to hit him hard. Yeah. And that's the story. So this is the thing. If you just heard that story and you're thinking that seems a little unsatisfying for a 12 episode arc Tis. Yeah. You're right. And so that's where and the show is

compensating by having her have these relationships with the other sensates and that's all well and good. Although she's one of the less connected ones. She doesn't have a specific buddy. Some of them have more of a specific buddy. The last five episodes she's essentially sitting in a jail cell by herself and at certain moments one of the senses go like hey can i tag you in and then she punches them a lot and then she's

like i'm gonna go back to the jail cell and they're like cool see you later yeah she she's very helpful from an action perspective but that's all she really does she doesn't seem to have a strong bond to any one of them she's the one they call upon when they need to punch this is this other thing with the show though is. As you said, it resolved by episode six or seven, essentially, and then she just becomes this sort of plot driver. But Nomi's plotline is all about her

trying to understand this sensate thing, right? Do you want to do Nomi next? As they put it, Nomi is the nexus, and that's why they made her a hacker, because she's like... If there's any sensate that's in they made her a hacker because she's like she's in the if there's any sensei that's in the middle of everyone it's her yeah my point was just gonna be that like a lot of the characters

they just start communicating with people in different parts of the world and they're just like oh okay hey how you doing yeah hey what's going on and it doesn't feel like they've been living with this their whole lives they're all being activated at the same moment yeah I mean the show has to eventually stop them being like huh I agree but some of them have no impact whatsoever.

I keep punching and kicking everything. Regular Duna Bay here. Some of them, the realization has no impact whatsoever. I don't need to see eight different people go like, what? What's happening? But I also like you could go like, oh, crazy. This must be like this. Some of them are just like, oh, hey, do you come here a lot?

No, I live in Iceland. I'm there right now. Oh, cool. So what are you doing later today? You know? Yeah, it's really like that. Yeah. Okay, so we can do Nomi.

Nomi played by Jamie Clayton, who is a trans woman actor, and that's terrific. And, like, this is a story that has so much right at the start, and then it's done, and then she's around, but more just to provide information, help out, like, do hacker stuff. Yeah. The first. Ooh, ooh, ooh.

Can I ask something? Yeah, Ben theory? Well, I mean, okay. I love a good hacker, right? Yeah, sure. In a movie, love a good hacker. But, sure. Love a good hacker. But I feel like typing has been so done. Are we talking mouse work?

What do you mean, are we talking mouse work? When she's hacking, are we seeing her click on that mouse? Not really. It's too loud typing. I'm sorry, Ben. Ah, damn it. You're pro mouse? I like to see the hand move around.

A little wrist work, you know? Yeah, because she's got the thumb on the pad. Yeah. Thumb on the, you know, tracking pad. Yeah, she's got a track pad. This is a new shade of Ben. I didn't know you liked mouse work so much. Yeah, I'm a mouse work guy.

So Nomi lives in San Francisco. Yeah. She's got a girlfriend, Amanita, who's played by Freema Agamon. I think Agamon. Yeah, who's great from Doctor Who. Great actress. And they are in a nice relationship. Martha Jones, was that her name? Yeah. And they, like, literally

in, like, the second episode, she just, like, writes out, like, this is why I go to Pride. Like, she writes this sort of, like, you know, and again, you're kind of like, is this show, like, about anything in particular or is it just sort of gonna be, like, random stuff like this? Which is the problem is, like, you know, and again, you're kind of like, is this show like about anything in particular or is it just sort of going to be like random stuff like this? Which is which is the problem is like if the show is just like here are eight different lives, let's live in them. Right. That's fine. Yeah. But this show is like eight different lives. Let's live in them with this looming like threat of bad shit.

There's sort of a conspiracy against them as well. So anytime you're living in the lives, you're like, shouldn't they be worried? I'm going to kill them with eye contact? But at the start, it's... I just also want to quickly point out, I'm sorry, Freema has Lana Wachowski hair. Yeah, totally, totally. Which Juna Bae had in Jupiter Ascending.

Yep, yep. She looks great. Hers are like blue in this, but she's definitely got the look. She looks great. She's a hacktivist, I guess. she seems to have some sort of a criminal past being a hacker and like really early on she gets hospitalized she's the only one who really goes through anything for having the visions tuppence yeah okay does she i guess right at the end

Tuppence Middleton This is good I'm gonna just keep singing songs about actresses I like But she gets like handcuffed to a bed and she's gonna get lobotomized by like a sadistic doctor Episode 2 man speed and train

We're going places You're like oh okay okay And there's like a lot of like i think worthy and affecting parallels to like you know the lives of trans people and people who are like you know hospitalized against their will because they're like quote unquote mentally ill or whatever you know i think they're they're trying to invest that in this story. And I think the scenes with her mother in the hospital are really good. Obviously, right. And that's part of it, of course, is her mother is there.

Her mother insists on calling her Michael and won't sort of dignify. And it's basically like, you're just going crazy because you took all these hormones. It won't dignify her transition with any kind of appropriateness. She won't stop calling him Michael. And I think this show oscillates between scenes that are like really sharp like that. You know, sharp, concise portrayals of a life struggle, a different life struggle.

You know, it's like, oh, that's what this person's going through. Sure, and it's part of the whole deeper empathy conversation. And scenes that are so violently inelegant. Like, I'll get to one later when we cover that plot line, but there are scenes in this that are just so muddled and so ham-fisted. And I think back to this. I know we're trying to talk about Noe specifically, but I'm just

free associating his thoughts come to me. You look at the family scenes in Jupiter, right? Oh my god! Yeah, alright, go ahead. And we talked about how they're cartoonish and broad, but that's a tone that the Wachowskis play in a lot. And this is trying to be a little more like kitchen sink drama.

For a sci-fi show, it's pretty grounded. Yeah, but it switches between tones a lot. There are scenes where they have that sort of shorthand writing, but the actors are playing it kind of straight, and it just feels ridiculous. If it's not in a cartoonier world. We'll get to whatever you're thinking about. Let's not talk about Jupiter Ascending. I love jupiter it's a good movie yeah um so anyway she gets then she escapes from the hospital i feel like that's the first major where she uses the uh handcuff picking skill of another sensei to get out of the hospital wolfie no not wolf will will sorry i keep

on confusing will and wolf well they're like handsome men. And they're best friends. Oh, no. Wait, Will's the cop. The fuck are you talking about? I'm sorry. My God. Jesus. Will's the cop. Wolf is the locksmith.

Yes. And then she's out and that's it. That's your story. Yeah. And then the rest of her plot line is her teaming up with Will to try to make sure the rest of them are going to be okay. Yeah, pretty much. But the way she does that is mostly just by checking in with them and being like, you okay?

And doing hacker stuff where she's like, it's okay. You're safe because I hacked into the mainframe and now your identity is protected or something. I don't know. But in a very inactive way because they'll just be like, oh shit, something's going to go wrong. And she's like, no, I did it four hours ago. Don't worry about it. She does have the first major encounter with the villain Mr. Whispers

I think they just call him Whispers Mr. Whispers Mr. Whispers which is an exciting action scene where she's like getting chased by like a zombie and there's like a zombie man it's a guy who had the surgery they were threatening

to do on her he's this big lug of a man and she's like what's this guy doing up a guy who had the surgery they were threatening to do on her. He's this big lug of a man and she's like, what's this guy doing up and around? He was like lobotomized. And then after he shoots a bunch of other people, he goes, stands in a mirror,

he stands, looks in a mirror, puts a gun in his mouth and she sees in the reflection that he is in fact Whispers. He's a different person. He's taking over this body. Yeah.

He's sensating in a wrong way. Right. So the surgery they're going to do on her, which I guess is the conspiracy of the first season, is like, oh, they find these sensates, they do. So the surgery they're going to do on her, which I guess is the conspiracy of the first season, is like, oh, they find these sensates, they do this surgery,

and then they're basically these mindless soldiers who can be controlled mentally. Yeah. So like the people who have sensate abilities can just use them as vessels. Yeah.

So they can harvest human beings, right? Yeah. Yeah. Which is another Wachowski thing. They hit that less hard in this one than the others, but it is people dehumanizing, using bodies for their own.

Okay, so number three. Let's do Riley, Gunnar's daughter. Right, I think a terrible plot line and an amazing performance. Tuppence Middleton, Terrence Middleton. I love Tuppence Middleton. Tuppence Middleton, great actress. I agree with you that it's a very good performance, but as we said,

she's a DJ. She gets caught up in some sort of drug deal in the first episode that she's just kind of not even involved. She just sort of witnesses it happen and it goes down. That's episode one. She's like a drug addict DJ who witnesses a murder and now people are gunning after her for the money. Like a little

bit. They're gunning after her a little bit. Like they come back once. Four episodes later and then the stakes are really high and they just resolve themselves. Yeah. She goes to Iceland. No one ever looks for her ever again. And here's what she does the rest of the time. Sits around drinking tea and like looking sad. And then all the way

You know go ahead. No it's a perfect microcosm of the show where there's both too much and not enough going on at the same time. Like she's got way too many plot lines but on a day to day basis nothing's going on in her life except for like two days. You know? Yes.

Eventually she is revealed to have this sort of sad path. Like she goes to Iceland to reconnect with her family. And it's like oh yeah she had a husband and a baby and they both died in a car crash

where she gave birth to the baby and then was abandoned on an Icelandic mountain right so that's like hinted at in episode 8 and isn't fully revealed to us in episode 12 i.e. the last episode and that's why she's so bummed out and you're like I get it sad yeah would have loved to have known that i.e. the last episode. And that's why she's so bummed out.

And you're like, get it. Sad. Yeah, would have loved to have known that from the get-go. So those scenes of her sitting around had any sort of emotional import. And so the triumph of the first season is almost her getting past this because she needs to help Brian, one of the other sensates, and not give up on life, which is nice. But they get to that so late but they get to it real late. Tuppence is good though.

But it's what I talked about before in this podcast. It's the Andrew Stanton rule. You make the first scene defining Nemo watching the guy lose his wife so that the rest of the movie you understand. Is that really the Andrew Stanton rule? Yeah, because he does the opposite of it in John Carter. That's why I call it the Andrew Stanton rule

because in John Carter, they spend an hour and a half being like, I don't know why John Carter is so sad, and then they show you that his wife died. And it's like, I assumed it, but I didn't feel it because I didn't see it. John Carter is not a good movie. It's not, but it's not a terrible movie. No. It's an okay movie. I think it's almost

overrated at this point. I do too. But I think it is okay. It's okay. It's not horrific. Okay, so next is, and I want to talk about this guy. And as much as he's just like a white dude, he might be one of my favorite characters. Oh, God. I don't, what? Will Gorski.

Okay, you like this character for one reason. Yeah. He's played by Brian J. Smith, who is not an actor I particularly know. I don't know if you know him. He's very cute. Yeah, he's a cutie patootie. His character is kind of bland. He's just sort of the cop, so he figures stuff out. Yeah, he's a cutie patootie. His character's kind of bland. He's just sort of the cop, so he figures stuff out.

Yeah, he figures stuff out. The first few episodes, there's, again, all this business in, like, Chirac, you know, in, like, the worst parts of Chicago. And he, like, rescues a kid who got shot, takes him to the hospital, interacts with some gangs. Oh, it's shit. No, but this is the scene that I was going to say is the most inelegant. When he's carrying-

He was on Stargate Universe. Oh, of course. Right No, but this is the scene that I was going to say is the most inelegant. When he's carrying- He was on Stargate Universe. Oh, of course. Right. Who did he play? Stargate. Oh, he played the Stargate. He played the Universe. Okay, cool.

Yeah. There's the scene where he goes to the hospital with this 10, 12-year-old boy in his arms. The kid's covered in blood. It's the most blood I've ever seen a human in. The nurse is basically just like, why are you bringing him here? We don't do gunshots. Get him out of here. But here's the thing.

She's not even that big with it. She just very directly says, like, you know, you can't bring him here. And he's like, this kid's dying right now. And she's like, yeah, you have to bring him to the other hospital. Don't you know that? You're a cop. Are you new? And he's like, the kid's fucking dying.

Leading out. Yeah. And she's like, look, our hospital's been a lot better since we stopped accepting kids like him in here. And it's like, the kid's there. He can hear you. Like, I don't believe the nurse would be like... No, I don't know. Would in front of the kid be like, I don't care if this kid dies. Maybe this is based on some real

riff from the headlines thing or something. I have no idea. It would never play out like this. Even if this exchange happened, it would never play out like this. So this is the thing I think you're probably thinking of where it's kind of hitting us over the head right yeah yeah totally i mean the devaluing human life the chicago gangland stuff yeah this is the scene i hate most in the entire show is that scene with the nurse in the hospital um but you know what happens to the chicago gangland plot line plot line here yeah just literally vanishes after a few episodes yeah

he's got all this business where it's like, oh, he has to talk to the gangsters because they witnessed something in a church where Daryl Hannah was. And then it's like, you know what? Eh, forget about it. Okay, but here's, I don't know if I just was going punch drunk watching the show and losing sleep or whatever.

Did they ever explain? Because there's like, so okay, this is the thing you like about this plot line. His dad is Joey Pantoliano. In two out of 12 episodes. No, three. Three. Okay, but like they set up pants early.

Very early on, they hold up a nicely ironed pair of Italian pants. Right? They hang it up. But he's got a poop. On the clothesline. He's got a poop thing. He's got a colostomy bag. Yeah.

Right. And they hang it up on the clothesline, and then they hang a bag of poop up on the clothesline next to it, and you go, ooh, ripe. No kidding, me bag. Yeah. Right. And they hang it up on the clothesline and then they hang a bag of poop up on the clothesline next to it and you go, ooh, ripe. No kidding, me too. Yeah. Right?

And then he disappears for nine episodes. Yeah. And then comes back at the very end. Yeah. And gives a great speech. And he's like,

you bring the brat? You bring the brat first? Great. But there's the thing early on. I love him so much. He's so little. He's so great.

He looks great in this. He's got like a beard. He looks great. Yeah. I don't know if I just missed thing. Early on. I love him so much. He's so little. He's so great. He looks great in this. He's got like a beard. He looks great. Yeah. I don't know if I just missed this. Early on. He's only two episodes. Yeah.

Thank you. Early on when he goes to the bar, when Will goes to the bar and meets up with his dad. Yeah. He's like, where's my dad? He's like passed out in the corner. And his dad's like drunk and he takes the gun off his dad. And it's like, okay, interesting relationship here. This building, this could be something good.

I hope this is a through line throughout the season especially since I love wearing pants right and then they're like oh your son why you still talk to him I wouldn't talk to him after what he did to you do they ever fucking explain what that is no he kept saying that he could hear this dead girl

in his brain I think it's gonna play into season two or something I know it's not good they set up this relationship that's like so rife and it's going to play into season two or something. I know, it's not good. They set up this relationship that's like so rife and it's like he's this sort of disgraced cop.

His dad's in shambles now. He's like legacy Chicago police. I know, they set this all up and then they don't explain it. Because he gets a lot of screen time

in the first couple episodes that's like his own shit. And after that he just kind of becomes the mediator. Like he's the moderator of the Sense8 convention. But you know,

he's real cute. He is real, real cute. He of the Sense8 convention. But you know, he's real cute. He is real, real cute. He's real cute, bye. And you know who his dad is? Joey Pants. The cutest guy in the world. No kidding me, too. No kidding me, too.

Joey Pants on Twitter is NKMeToo, just if you want to follow him. Can I marry Joey Pants? Yes, you can. Okay, thank you. Thank you for approving of our marriage. Ben, will you officiate? Absolutely. Thank you. So Will has a relationship. Ben, will you officiate? Absolutely. Thank you.

So Will has a relationship with Tuppence, a mental relationship. There are a couple couples within the sensei. They're very cute together. She's so pretty. She's very pretty. He's also very pretty. Yeah, they're pretty people. Okay, so let's move on to Caiaphas, who might be the least.

Oh, I'm sorry. There's one more point I want to make about Will. Go. Caiaphas, who might be the least... Oh, I'm sorry. There's one more point I want to make about Will. There's a scene in the Will plotline that I've never seen in any film or TV show before. He's with his partner. They're in their car talking about how tough Chicago is.

And as they're driving, it's just a two-shot, right? They're clearly driving a real car. It's not like a fucking phony baloney thing. It's a two-shot from the side, from the passenger window of both of them. And as they're driving, they go under a bridge that is an elevated train, right? The L train right in Chicago. And they hold for sound.

Oh, that's funny. Because it's a one-er. Because they don't cut to coverage. They're like talking and then the train comes and they just don't talk for 15 seconds. They clearly wait for the train to stop going, and then they just pick up the conversation again. And I kind of loved it, because I know it was a technical thing,

because when you're filming shit, and there's a plane or a train, they go like, hold for sound, it's not even worth recording, because we won't be able to get this. And they go like, pick it up again after this.

But in this, it also kind of worked, because it's like, when I'm with a friend, and we're at the subway station and the train pulls in. Yeah, you might stop talking. I stop talking until the train stops because I know I won't be heard.

Yeah. Love that. It's my favorite moment of the entire series. Sense8, Emmy. Emmy. For best holding for sound. So Amal Amin, Amal Amin as Caiaphas. Yes, a great actor.

Who is a Kenyan, good actor. Has been let go for season two was fired yes and i think deadline was a little um sensitive about describing that he had left the show but it's very obvious that he was fired he got fired after like filming clashing yes after filming a couple episodes of season two and clashing with uh lily w, I think, or Lana Wachowski. Lily is not working on season two. That's right. Season two is just going to be Lana. I think Lily is.

Lily's had a lot of shit go down recently. She's going to take a break. But I know from experience. Yeah. But I know from experience, I once was, we talked about this briefly in a previous episode, but I was almost recast on a show that was partially through its season and they were unhappy with the actor. Oh, yeah, sure. And I had been like- You were almost the actor they replaced him with. I was almost the replacement. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were almost the actor they replaced him with. I was almost the replacement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were like midstream. They were maybe like three episodes in. I had been like a runner up before, you know, originally for the pilot. And then they said like, we're not happy with this actor. We're going to bring you in for the executives and do a final audition. And then the conversation after that was they want to recast the guy they have with you,

they want to recast the guy they have with you, but they're breaking down the numbers of how much it would cost to not only reshoot all the scenes from the last three episodes with you, which will get us behind schedule because we're already on episode four, and contractually, they had to pay him for all the episodes he wasn't in.

So all I'm saying here is to fire someone after shooting two episodes is not a decision you make lightly. No. Because it's a lot of money. Yep. And it fucks up your schedule like crazy. Yep.

He is a great actor. Mm-hmm. His performance is very endearing. I think he's good in the show, although I do think his character is maybe the least, like, sort of, like, he has the least bearing on the overall plot, on, like, the cosmic sort of... I agree, but I weirdly think his plot line is the best on its own. It's not bad.

Eh. All right, anyway. You know what I'm saying? Like, removed from the larger narrative, I think his plot line's the most individually compelling. I think a lot of that's his performance. He's a very endearing guy. He's very kind-hearted and open. Okay. I think a lot of that's his performance. He's a very endearing guy. He's very kind-hearted and open.

Yeah. So it's hard to imagine what happened. I know on Twitter, when they announced the new actor playing it, Jamie Clayton tweeted like, congratulations, so excited about this. Good news all around. And people were like, oh, throwing shade, throwing shade.

And then her Twitter feed was like a thousand people asking her, is it true that he got fired for transphobic remarks that he didn't get along with them and she kept on being like no it's not that it's not that i want to deny that but clearly there was some tension and it was not insignificant because he is gone i think he's quite winning on this show yeah i like the van damme thing i think they play it well whereas the conan thing that gets brought into the german plot line later feels very shoehorned in van damme on this show. Yeah. I like the Van Damme thing. I think they play it well whereas the Conan thing that gets brought into the German plotline later feels very shoehorned in.

Van Damme's there for episode one and I love the idea that like this guy He loves Jean-Claude Van Damme. But the same way that what's her name the woman to be married

in the Indian plotline keeps on she looks up to Ganesh the elephant god. Right? Yeah. Like he looks up to Jean-Claude van damme in this like religious way yeah and i i like that i think it's funny i think it's cute i think it's

fine i think this plot line is fine i i feel like i've seen a lot of hollywood work about africa that is about someone who has aids and someone who gets caught up with gangsters with machetes. Right. Which both of these things are. His mom has AIDS, and he gets caught up with gangsters with machetes who are willing to pay him in AIDS medication. They make it clear it's hard to get AIDS medication.

Not only is it expensive, but a lot of it's fake. Phony, yeah. And you see that actually. That's one thing I wish they did more of. The scene where you see I don't know if it's at school or if it's at work but in the ending plotline the engaged couple

they're at a meeting where they're talking about counterfeit drugs I think they work for a pharmaceutical company yeah they do she's like a pharmacist of some sort and that's a little bit of like the handshaking that I miss from Cloud Atlas they don't have much of it no very little but so he's gotta do this job to get this job, to save

his mother. His father's already dead. He becomes a runner for this businessman who is a great father and a terrible human being otherwise. He loves his daughter. His daughter has leukemia. So he's paying this guy in AIDS medication to

do illegal runs of his daughter to the leukemia treatment center. Guys, it's all pretty fucking complicated. They chop off a lot of hands. There's some hands chopped off and then it all descends into this cacophony of violence where he like takes down 20 machete wielding gangsters in like a bus stop or bus station, like a warehouse or something. It's pretty, well,

but you talk about, I mean like probably my third favorite scene and we're talking a Holy Trinity of scenes along with holding for sound and the what's up for non blondes sing along. Right. Yeah. The other scene I love is the one where he's like face to face with these guys who took his bag with the AIDS medication in it.

Right. And he just spent all his money on that and he's not going to lose it. So he chases them down and then fucking Duna Bay tags in and like kickboxes these guys. Yeah. And everyone's like, oh my God, he's Jean-Claude Van Damme.

Yeah. And he becomes this sort of like folk hero. Yeah, kind of. Before he becomes a drug runner and then the whole plot line goes away. And then they just immediately drop that. And then they're like, so hi, I'm a gangster. Can you like have my daughter on the bus?

But I love that section where it's like, now the van's doing super well because everyone looks at him as, like, the superhero. But then they drop it, like, right away! It drives me crazy because I wanted to see the whole season, his arc, be about that. But my point was more like, you know,

I guess his skill is literally just being a sweetheart because, you know... And a driver. He tags in at one point when he needs to drive. He tags in at one point to drive. But like other ones it's like you know she's a hacker. He can use a gun. He can pick a handcuff. Like you know. But Leto's strength is

he's a good liar. Yeah but that's pretty good. They use that really well. I actually like that the most. That's a good scene. Yeah. Leto can act. You know Kala the Indian pharmacist. she can do science stuff. Yeah, what does she really do? Well, she doesn't do a lot until the last episode where she whizzes up like a science bomb.

Right, right, right. But anyway, he doesn't, yeah, driving, that's his skill. Yeah. Shrug. I like him. I think he's a nice guy. Next character, Max Reimelt as Wolfgang Bogdano I'd say this is probably

my least favorite it's just dull he's a German safe cracker he's got a friend who literally looks like a rat yeah I love that guy's face he's a great quite a face

a great character actor face quite a face he must have been in something else because he's sort of recognizable to me but he's got this like really ratty face.

Yeah. Yeah. And he like cracks a safe. It's really hard to crack. His dad couldn't crack it. He's got daddy issues. There's gangsters. They steal some diamonds.

Well, that was that. It's stupid. I hate this part. He steals it before his fucking like cousin was going to steal it. Yeah. And his cousin's a fucking dickhead. And they're like, let's steal it because we're better and our cousin fucking sucks and then the

uncle is like fuck you guys and tries to kill them all. He has an abusive dad he's afraid to sing in public because his dad laughed at him once when he was doing a chorus recital. It is boring. And it's really hackneyed. It's like so cliched. And like there's this episode where they

start spending money all over town because they stole some diamonds. And you're like, guys, have you not seen any crime movies? Don't do that. We've seen this a thousand times. And yet it still takes like seven episodes before Ratface gets shotgunned in the chest. More. I think that happens episode eight or nine. But there's one thing about Max Remelt's character that really works.

And I love it. His wiener. Yeah, he's got a beautiful penis. Yeah. And he has a crossover relationship. That is what you were going to say, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're on the same page.

We're not making a joke. No, no. It's a plot point. Yeah, it is. That he's got a great looking dick. He's got a nice looking penis. And we've both been outspoken. We want more dicks on camera.

Yeah. Have you seen pop star never stop never stopping no I'm gonna see it tonight good penis scene in that one good penis I still haven't seen

bigger splash too which I know you told me has some quality wang in it yeah it's got it's got that's got some more of the dramatic

sort of vulnerable penis yeah where it's like who are their tears from the penis no while the penis is out there's sort of more

like anger and rage and stuff. I'm interested. Am I allowed to say your review of Bigger Splash? No. Okay, I won't say it. But it's a good show.

I mean movie. Good movie, yeah. I'll say it. I would have been happy if it had been a show. No, it wouldn't have been a good show. Okay, anyway.

No, he's got a romance with Kala who is the Indian lady who is maybe about to get married and is worried about it and they this guy who's very desirable but but she's not desirable and sweet but she's not into him and whatever it's not right it's not right he's just not that into you yeah i made it up no i made it up trademark um but so there's this scene where she's about to get married and then and she crosses over to him and they've already been kind of mind flirting and dancing together.

And they're looking at the guest list and they're going, okay, Aunt Patricia here. My college roommate Doris here. Dick? Who invited the dick here? And he's getting out of the bath, the bathing hall. And so she's like literally getting married. There's a lot of bathing in this show gotta take a bath

multiple characters gotta take a bath not a lot of shower scenes a lot of bathing and she but this is the only incident of like serious nudity I guess in the beginning you see Nomi and Amanita having sex

but like there's not a lot of they have two sex scenes there's not a lot of you they have two sex scenes i guess so there's not there's not a ton of nudity some of these netflix shows are like in a bath once sure but some of these netflix shows you know they're really like here's a boobie you're getting a boobie you're getting a boobie but anyway and she's getting married and she just he pops into her brain and she literally just like takes a shocked look at his flaccid wiener. They cut from her shocked face straight to single close up of a wiener. And then from the wiener, the camera slowly tilts up to his face.

And then you're like, oh, that's whose wiener it is. Right. But it's one of the few times I've seen, not for joke purposes, just like, here's a clean shot of a wiener. And then she faints. Yeah. She does faint, interrupting the wedding. And then he does say,

you were looking at my dick later. And she's like, I was not, but she was. She was looking at his dick. We all saw it. So that's his major contribution, I feel like. Quality Don. He helps Leto fight some gangsters at one point later on. Yeah.

Or a blackmailer, not a gangster. Because he's a scrapper. Yeah. Anyway. So Kala, we'll just wrap her up. She's got a really frustrating plot line, I feel like. The Indian woman who, like, there's this whole idea that she's religious. Mm-hmm.

And she's also a woman of science and she's an independent woman in like you know a still very stratified society in a very strict society and these two things can exist independently and she's got this lovely dad who's a cook who's played by anubam care anubam care who's this like amazing amazing indian actor he's great he's in bend it like beckham he's in like he's been in a few American movies, and he's always great, but I think he's like a legend of Indian cinema. And he's so good, and he's just like, I love you. Do whatever you want to do. I'm happy you're getting married.

So here's my problem. Why is she getting married? Yeah. Because the whole thing is like, the whole season is her deciding whether or not she's going to get married, even though you know she doesn't love this guy. See, this is why. Oh, Penis Man says, you don't love him. And she's like, yeah, I don't. She doesn't love this guy. See, this is when I... Oh, Penis Man says, you don't love him. And she's like, yeah, I don't.

She doesn't love him. He's a nice guy. I don't love him. I mean, I get that a lot of money's been spent on this wedding, and he's very nice. Right. He's a sweetheart, this rich husband, fiance of hers. This is when the Claude Landisman, like, Shadows of Showa thing hits hard for me.

It's like, if you go from someone with a gun to their head to her when she already has decided episode one like she doesn't change her mind at all episode one she's like I'm not in love with him I shouldn't marry him and then proceeds to for 12 episodes not do anything about it proceed with the wedding even though she knows she doesn't want to I think I think guys you're just

you're it's like a cultural thing I mean like in you know dowry and whatnot I feel like it's just that's part of the culture there no but there even is this thing where like Ben it gets to later in the season that the father doesn't like neither parent wants them to get married oh well that's just dumb yeah his dad doesn't like her and then later in the season her dad is like I know you're not in love with him you have to make the tough choice like I know it's difficult but I know you'll do the right thing.

So it's like no one's forcing them to get married. It's true. People are almost saying they shouldn't. But then every time she's like, maybe I don't want to get married. The fiance is just like, I understand. Like, it's okay. He's a very nice guy, but she just doesn't love him. And there's even like the first episode, one of her friends is like, if you don't marry him, I will.

So it's like, so her friends even know that she's like on the phone. Everyone's just like, look, if you don't want to marry him, it it's like so her friends even know that she's like on the fence. Everyone's just like look if you don't want to marry him it's fine. She's a very internal character which is fine and it's fun to see her occasionally get drawn out with the sensates like when she's talking in her head. Yeah. That's fine. And the scenes with her and Max. Yeah Max. Penis. Max penis are great.

Max and Wolfie are the two I'm confusing. Not Will and Wolfie. I keep on thinking Max is named Wolfie. Max and Wolfie. Wolfie's rat face. No. Max is the actor. Wolfie are the two I'm confusing. Not Will and Wolfie. I keep on thinking Max is named Wolfie. Max and Wolfie. Wolfie's rat face. No, Max is the actor. Wolfie is the character. Oh, okay. I'm calling. They're all one person.

You're driving me crazy. Sorry, buddy. We're all one person. Next penis. So she doesn't do anything for 12 episodes. Moving on. She does look at that dick. Yeah.

Yeah. But she makes a science bomb in episode 12. And we do too, which is nice because we can relate to her. We're all looking at that dick. The final character that we haven't discussed is Lito Rodriguez played by Miguel Angel Silvestre.

A Basque background Mexican actor. Basque? What's Basque? He's Basque. It's a region of Spain. Oh, gotcha. I thought it was an acting style. They ask him. He's like, I'm from Bilbao originally. It doesn't really come up. It's cute.

Yeah. Cute plot line. So it's like kind of an old fashioned plot line, which they save by setting in in Mexico the idea of like, oh my God, if anyone found out he was gay, like his career would be over. It's a comedy of manners. This is sort of the equivalent of the Timothy Cavendish plot line. And there definitely are points where like they're playing jaunty music during this where it's like, oh, how goofy this plotline is.

And it's kind of cute because it's like, he's got a nice boyfriend, they love each other, never in question. He's got this beard girlfriend who basically just becomes their best pal and they all hang out together and sit around in their underwear. When she finds out that he's gay,

rather than blowing everything like they think she will, she's like, this is great. I love it. I love gay men. I want to live with you. I want to be your live-in beard. And she masturbates while watching them fuck. Yep. Yep. That's true. That's a scene. Yep.

Which is like, that's where Sense8's kind of important because it's like, no other TV show's doing that scene. This is true. This is like complicated sexuality, you know? There's a lot of great fucking. Yeah. That's what she's into. She's into watching gay sex. This is a 12 episode show.

What's your point? I don't know. That's the whole plot. And then in episode nine, she gets into some trouble and the boyfriend breaks up with Leto because he's like, you know, you're closeted. We should talk about this a little bit. So the other reason why she wants to live with them in addition to loving seeing that dude undue sex. She's got like an abusive former boyfriend or whatever.

Right. This like drug lord kind of guy who wanted her. There's so many drug lords. Yeah, there's a lot of drugs in this show. He wanted her and she was like, no. And now he's angry because he can't have her. He's possessive and he's an abuser. He's a physical abuser.

So, you know, he beats her up because he steals her. Can we just be over? Can we be done? Can we just be done with this? There's the scene where he shows up at the house. And they're like, what are you doing here? He's wearing a luchador mask. He's broken into their home. They've gone out and the boyfriends pretended to be a bodyguard and

it's like oh look at us we're fun we're like jewels in gym it's this sort of like three-way relationship right yeah and then he's like hello there wearing the luchador mask they're like what the fuck you're doing here he's like i want to watch you fuck her they're like what and he's like i learned from the best you want to to watch you fuck her and like what and he's like i learned from the best you want to play football you watch the best footballers and they're like get the fuck out of here so you think there's going to be a scene where he forces him to fuck a woman at gun point which then doesn't happen but then it turns out an episode later that he stole her phone which has all these pictures of them fucking because she likes that. Dude, this sucks. Let's just move on. He's going to blackmail them.

This is all crappy plot. It's really bad. There was one moment I liked. Okay, what was the moment you liked? I liked this scene. I think they did a good job of showing the sort of pathological justification of physical abusers. That's fine. I agree with you.

It's just like a lot of this stuff comes right out of nowhere. Yeah, agreed. And then suddenly there's like a lot of it. But there is that line where she says like, you used to beat the shit out of me. And he's like, I'm Mexican. You have to understand it.

Absolutely, absolutely. And it's like that kind of insipid like, I'm not wrong. You don't understand how the world works. Yeah, he's just like, this is how it is. Right, right. And it's like, you know,

because a lot of things, look, beating like, this is how it is. I have to beat you. Right, right. And it's like, you know, because a lot of things, look, beating people? Terrible. The absolute worst. Yeah, don't do it. But a lot of shows will just be like, guy's a monster. Yes, I agree with that. People who are monsters justify why they're not monsters in their head, and I think that's a very

Wachowski touch. I like that one moment. Here's my counter. The guy is 100% a monster with no characterization. Agreed 100 i like that one moment here's my counter yeah the guy is 100 a monster with no characterization agreed 100 so that one line is out of line with like the rest of what's going on really work because it's just like he's just a demon they need to defeat and they do with violence yeah i just thought that was a good piece of dialogue that didn't sync up with the rest of the character yeah it's it is if he also like fucking like sticks a knife to lito's throat during like a brunch.

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that's out of whack because he clearly is just a monster. He's a mustache twirling monster. You know what they do? They solve it all and they get her out of there and they reunite and they're happy. But half of these plot lines are solved. And he uses his acting skills to help people break into things sometimes. Wolfie won't stand up to his uncle because...

That's a pretty good scene. That's a good scene. Wolfie won't stand up to his uncle because he reminds him of his father and he can't talk back to his father. And Leto's like, just lie to him. And he's like, I can't do it. And Leto's like, I'll do it.

Tag in. And then gives the fucking best performance ever. Yeah, no, those scenes are fun. Yeah. Half the eight are resolved way too neatly and the other half are not resolved at all yeah and it's like here's chapter one of five and this is the thing the show is kind of like well don't worry about it there'll be more okay yeah we just got a lot we got a lot and it's like i make make each hour of television i watch interesting on its own make each season interesting

on its own don't make me have to watch five seasons for this whole thing to fit together. And there's these moments that are great, like the Four Non Blondes scene or the birth scene. These sort of collective moments are very cool. And even just this world view and its inclusiveness. Some of the action is really cool. The action is great.

Someone tweeted when this show came out this is essentially diversity the show. This is a show with no barriers in who it covers and how it covers them sure and sort of aside from the villain characters who are very one-dimensional the heroes of our show are all portrayed with no judgment yeah and there's the sort of thing there's this sex scene where like two of the couples are fucking and then like simultaneously four other characters feel like they're being fucked. And you have this orgy scene in like the public bath that Will goes to.

Yeah. Where they're all sort of fucking each other. And then episode 12 when was Lito and Will meet for the first time. And he's like, oh, I fucked you. Tight ass, right? Yeah. And Will isn't like, what dude? Get the fuck out of here.

They're like, yeah, we did all fuck. You know? Like this show has like a very unsurprising, a very inclusive sense of sexuality where it's like, which is all great. If you want to be straight, but masturbate to two gay guys, fucking do that. You know,

it's not a, yeah. If you want to be a transgender lesbian, if you want to have straight up normie, hetero missionary sex, you just look at each other and hold hands. Yeah. Go for it.

If you want to brain fuck everybody, if you want to kiss on a mountain, you can do whatever you want. But just give me some pot to hang that all on. Philosophically, I adore this show. No, me too. I'm glad I watched it. I'll probably watch season two

where we're not doing another episode about it. Absolutely not. I'll watch that season gradually over the course of a year. I'll watch that season gradually over the course of a year. I'll watch one minute at a time. I'm glad this show exists. I do think. I'm a little worried that it's going to consume the Wachowskis time so much because I kind of just want them to make movies. Because I think watching this, I'm like their best.

Like platform is like huge hundred million dollar two hour three hour story yeah but the box office doesn't agree with you right that's the problem but they're like two of the filmmakers who should only work on that scale like I don't think they work as well on a smaller scale

and even something like bound that was cheap is like very stylized and this is trying to be more naturalistic and it's like Bound that was cheap is like very stylized and this is trying to be more naturalistic and it's like not necessarily their best flavor as dramatists no but it's got a lot of their interesting ideas and it seems to make a lot of people happy

it has a very passionate segment of fans on the internet it's not like Netflix's biggest hit by a long shot, but it does have fervent fans. It's a show that does things that no other show is doing. And when we're talking about TV, this is exactly what Netflix wants. It wants shows that inspire passionate fans

because then that's all they need. They just need you to want to watch one Netflix show because then you're going to subscribe to Netflix. Each subscriber needs one Netflix series that keeps them subscribed. Netflix is just like 40 Arlisses. That was the HBO model. Was Arliss stayed on forever

because 10 people loved Arliss and were like, I'll cancel my subscription if Arliss gets canceled. Well, HBO offered broad shows that lots of people liked, but it always had Arliss and people would be like, why do you still have Arliss? Nobody likes Arliss and HBO was just like, we absolutely know that X you still have Arliss? Nobody likes Arliss and HBO was just like, we absolutely know that X many people like Arliss

and it justifies it financially. And it was like 10 people were ride or die Arliss fuckers. Like we're like, I'm gonna bone out. There was like 8 seasons of Arliss. Robert Woolvell. Yeah, Robert Woolvell. Anyway, so tune in next week for Arliss cast.

Yeah. Ben, you wanna do some predictions? So time. Yeah, let's open up the envelope here. Okay. Let me hear the crack of the glass box. Okay. Okay, envelope ripped.

You remember that Neil Patrick Harris thing? It was the worst thing in the world. That's one of the worst bits I've ever seen. All right. I wrote that bit, yeah. So, okay, let's start. I wrote some... Did you hear the actual jostling of the paper? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Ben, okay, let's start. I wrote some... Did you hear the actual jostling of the paper?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Ben's great. He's the best. Ben's the best. So I wrote down powers for all the individual Sense8 characters. Oh, okay, that you thought they were all going to have. Okay.

So, soap opera actor, I thought he would give everyone the power of seductive facial hair. He's got a perfect amount of stubble. Oh my God, it's like pretty immaculate. It's insincredible. Yeah, and it's thick. It's dense and it's dark. I thought for DJ, her power would be anytime you're in a social situation and you don't want to pay attention,

you magically can wear headphones and ignore them. Boy, oh boy. These are really dumb. That is pretty much her plot line for six episodes is just sitting with headphones while other people talk about stuff she doesn't want to deal with. Okay. I was right about the Korean character

just beating the shit out of terrible people. You thought that was you? You called it. Yeah, because she made a fist when there was that shitty businessman. Oh, that's a great line she has later in the show. When it's like, what do you do? And she's like, I take all my anger and all my rage and I put it all into my fist.

Yeah. Yeah. White cop, just he's not racist. Yeah, he is. That's sort of his superpower. That's cool. But he never really grows beyond that. Yeah, okay.

He's cute. And he's got a nice pair of pants in the closet go on uh i mean safe cracker i wrote patience but it sounds like as dong as that real power yeah pretty much yep uh and then i don't know uh indian uh scientist just a cutie pie so you know she is a cutie pie. That's her power, I guess. And then she makes a bomb in one scene of one episode. Indecisiveness, I'd say, is her power, too. Oh, right. A little bit, yeah. Inability to act on her feelings. She's a real Hamlet on the Ganges. Yeah.

And I mean, I wrote a cab driver is a good driver. Yeah, well, nailed it. And I'll go through these pretty quick, because I think we mostly hit a lot of these. Okay, and you. Yeah. And I'll go through these pretty quick because I think we mostly hit a lot of these. Okay. And you thought they were all going to Voltron together. Totally. Yeah. I was like really hoping for it. And like a costume maybe. It has an eight on it. How amazing would it be if they didn't even like suit up into robots, but there was just a scene where suddenly

like one of them was a leg. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Where like a whole human being was operating as if they were a leg. Okay, rest of the predictions. Cool. And so I thought there might be a moment where at first they don't trust each other and so there's a montage where they do trust exercises together. Sure.

Yeah, I'd say that was sorely lacking from this show, trust exercises. It was pretty montage heavy. I wrote here slow montages of them walking all together like Ocean's Eleven. Okay. Should have done that. That would have been cool. Especially because they kind of have to heist together at the end.

Dude, it would have been good. Yeah. And then I wrote time travel and they change history. You just always want that to happen. I really do. It's my go-to. Yeah, otherwise there's some really dumb stuff I'm going to self-edit and say that's all I got.

Okay, great. Well, that's the television series Sense8. We did it. We did it. We like it despite the fact that we sound totally defeated right now. I do feel a little defeated by it and I would have felt this way even if we hadn't had to binge it. We like it despite the fact that we sound like totally defeated right now. I do feel a little defeated by it. And I would have felt this way even if we hadn't had to binge it.

Yeah. I do feel this way about a lot of these shows. It's just I hope they don't do this forever. I hope they get to make movies again. I like the Wachowski movies. Me too. I like Wachowski's movies. I agree. So what's next week, guys?

What are we doing? Next week we're doing the Animatrix. Yes, we're going to delve into the Animatrix, which they oversaw more than made, but nonetheless was a very important part. And we'll just, you know, one little check in with the Matrix world and with the Wachowski sensibilities.

Yeah, I think, you know, I'm going to try to watch the 40 minutes of Enter the Matrix, the video game footage as well for next week. I have one with that. Probably watch some of the special features, the video game footage as well for next week. Probably watch some of those special features, the appendixes and stuff. But we're just going to take one last dip into the world of the Matrix and say our

so longs to the Wachowskis. Indeed, and I guess we'll announce what we're doing next. Oh my god. Yeah, it'll be a Cameron. It'll be a Cameron. Followed by another Cameron. I feel like we should do a Palette Clans in Ratoon, but we haven't talked about what to do. But I think maybe, you know, look forward to that,

a surprise palate cleanser coming your way. Quite possible. Quite possible you might get a Sherbert, a podcast Sherbert. Yes, indeed. I'm so sleepy. Me too. I want to nap. Ben, Burger Report, you want to throw us a quick do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do- Uh, and he would come in quite often, but one of my favorite. With the Crocs? Yeah.

Oh, orange Crocs. Always. Hell yeah. I think they're like signature Crocs of his. Yeah. But he would come in, uh, sometimes for, for drinks. And so I'm pretty sure it was like, you know, maybe a weekday kitchen stayed open kind of late still.

So he like had a burger and then he pulled one of the most badass moves, which is he just lit up a fucking cigarette. Wow. And just started smoking, and nobody called him on it. That is pretty impressive. Mario Batali, and it was kind of a badass move. Okay, Ben, but I have a very important question for you. Yeah.

Did he eat a burger? Oh, no, I said that. Oh, okay, good. Yeah, he came in, had a burger, and was drinking, hanging out, and then he just lit up. I'm so tired. My brain is dying on me right now. I need a sensate to jump in and listen instead.

I need a good listener. Is there listening power? Yeah. Well, that was... That was a burger report. Thank you, Benny. Burger report. Sure.

Now, Ben, do you have an entry for the orange twist file? Yeah, I guess I could do. Hey, one time I made Martha Stewart a martini. That's pretty cool. Was there an orange twist in it? Yeah. There was? That was the orange twist file.

I mean, that was it. I mean, and then here, this is like old gossip, but she ended up going into this restaurant at the same time that Rachel Ray was there. And she stared down Rachel Ray. And Rachel Ray left. She had her food, her entrees, wrapped up and she left because she felt so uncomfortable. Well, wait a second.

Oh, she had the food wrapped up. I thought you were saying she left. She ate her meal. She ate the entree. She paid her check. And then left. And she said, thank you so much. I've never seen anything like it before.

She finished her meal. No, she took it to go. I will say, I've gone to five burger restaurants in the last week and have seen zero famas. I've been going out of my way. Wait, I have a burger report. What? Go on, go on. Last week. Hey, hold on. a burger report. What? Go on, go on. Last week.

Hey, hold on. The burger report. Oh, God. Last Wednesday, I had a burger with Griffin Newman. Oh. I did, though. You were there. Yeah.

You didn't have a burger. Yeah, I didn't. But we went to a pub. It was after the episode, and I did, though. You were there. Yeah. You didn't have a burger. Yeah, I did. But we went to a pub. It was after the episode, and I was so hungry. Yeah, I ate chicken fingers, and you had a burger. And Griffin Newman, of course, star of The Tick, which is going to be on Amazon in August. Please watch. Yep.

Trying to drum up that excitement. That's my burger report. That was... Oh, you know who I saw yesterday, but not a burger? Hold on one second. The burger report Oh you know who I saw yesterday but not a burger Hold on one second The burger report Yesterday I was driving to Ample Hills Which is an ice creamery in

Prospect Heights Yeah it's also what they call Dolly Parton right? Ample Hills? A pie? Dolly Parton? Ample Hills? Ben? You get what I'm saying? Ample Hills? Yeah I got you I don't know maybe maybe one comedy point? Thank you.

You're welcome. I was going there, and I get out of my car, and I'm walking across the street, and guess who gets out of a big, black, fancy car? Dolly Parton? Beck. Oh. Yeah. Beck with the good hair.

Beck with the good hair Beck with the good hair Interesting And so he was there And I saw him And said look it's Beck And everyone was like Huh there he is And Beck turned to you And he went indeed it is

That's what happened He winked and he Except for that last part Flipped a penny over his shoulder Uh huh And then hopped and skipped on a rainbow Good old Beck Anyway celebrity sighting.

I'm exhausted. I'm going to go to sleep right now. Cool. Thank you all for listening. Cool. Rate, review, subscribe, all the usual. Next week we're back with the Animatrix. And the week after that a palate cleanser and then a Cameron.

So we got some surprises in store for you. You don't know. Yeah. Get excited. Get hyped. Get hyped. Get hyphy hyped get hyphy get hyphy yeah

as the Wilmot brothers say yep thanks thanks you know as always as always wish me a good night

as I go to sleep dip in the slumberland right away sleepy time yes thanks to producer Ben as always and ultimately

as always as always it's ultimately... As always. As always. It's all about that dick. This has been a UCB Comedy Production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.