Blank Check with Griffin & David - Showgirls with Caroline Framke

Episode Date: February 12, 2018

Caroline Framke (Vox) joins Griffin and David to discuss 1995’s iconic erotic drama Showgirls. But was screenwriter Eszterhas’ original pitch scribbled on a cocktail napkin? Is this film a parable for Hollywood? Where is the character Nomi from? Together they examine Caroline’s experience seeing this movie for the first time at a screening in a Hollywood cemetery with Elizabeth Berkley, really aggressive dry humping and different places! This episode is sponsored by Blue Apron.

where are you from? Different podcasts. Okay. That was very quiet. That's not... I think she's quiet until she gets loud. No, she yells it. No. They're different points. Podcasts!

There it is. They're different points where she's asked that. I thought you were doing... David, don't yell in the mic! Hey, Ben, blowing up, blowing up. Sorry, sorry. Please, Ben, check the levels. What's your social security number?

That's... I thought you were doing that one. In that one, she's pretty muted. Different places. No, in that one the levels. What's your social security number? I thought you were doing that one. In that one, she's pretty muted. Different places. No, in that one, she says she's from New York. Oh, you're right. In the job interview. Isn't there an earlier one where she's kind of quiet?

Different places. Okay, let's take two. Ben, cut everything out. No, no, no, we're just going to keep going. I love it. David, cue me again. All right, fine. Where are you from?

Different podcast. Yeah, that's what we need. Right there. Right there. Right there. Ben's happy. Ben's thrilled. Hey everybody, welcome to Blank Check. Pow! The Blank Check with Griffin and David. Drinking raspberry coffee.

We're gonna have a lot of blown sound. You're drinking what? I'm drinking raspberry coffee. Are you really? Yep. That's a thing? And you admitted to it. And I have a food item here that our guest has already dragged before i've even taken my first bite all i did was ask what it was but it but that was sufficient but you know you know that me having to answer is a self dunk yeah so please you know you're forcing me to dunk on myself it's sort of a what are those but just

about the whatever the fuck it is. White cheddar bagel twist. Why are you saying white? Just say cheddar. No, because that is what it's called. And he needed him to say the full name. It's a white cheddar and a raspberry coffee. You went to the coffee place to Dunkin' Donuts.

Yeah, let's use the proper name. The coffee place I went to was Dunkin' Donuts. You went to Dunkin' and you were like, no, raspberry. Yeah, yeah. Let's have a little raspberry in the coffee today. Oh, yeah, because you have to ask for that. Yeah. I said one small black.

Actually, make it a raspberry coffee. I love Dunkin' Donuts, but my problem with Dunkin' Donuts is it is tough just to get like a black coffee with nothing in it there sometimes. Oh, that's true. Where they're like, you're like, can I get just black coffee? And they're like, yeah, like eight packets of sugar, though's true. Where they're like, you're like, can I get just black coffee? And they're like, yeah, like eight packets of sugar though, right?

And you're like, no, no sugar. And they're like, oh no. So four packets of sugar, right? They really have to be talked down

from putting something in your coffee. Usually I just go black with nothing, right? And I feel like I get all those follow-up questions and I want them to just accept. I go, hey, just black coffee,

nothing in it, right? Yeah. And they still ask the follow-up questions. One black coffee. This time I said, hey, can I get a raspberry coffee? And they went, black? And that was the end of the questioning.

So I might have come up with a life hack here. They were trying to give you an out. Yeah. Life hacks with Griffin and David. Welcome to our life hacking podcast. Yes. Life hacks. This is a podcast about life hacks.

Life hacks with Griffin and David. This is a podcast about life hacks. Life hacks for Griffin and David. This is a podcast about biohackers. Uh-huh. Go on. No, this is a podcast. I can't sustain that. It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks. Sometimes those things clear and sometimes they bounce, darling. Darling.

Sometimes they bounce to different places. See, I turned away. Darling. Ben's not happy this time. Yeah, great job. I'm so proud of you, David. Ben's in a little bit of a know-me mood today. He seems very placated and then a millisecond later he will scream.

We're going to have some mood swings. He also keeps taking his shirt off. Well, listen, it's more comfortable for me. Okay. You have a problem with that? No, I just... Do you need me to get some ice?

Yeah. Okay. Our guest is getting ice for Ben. Ben's a prick. Okay? What's the exact line? I need to call up the wicked quotes or whatever for this

because there's so many quotes. There's too many. Let's just do a table read of this script quickly. Oh, boy. This is a miniseries about the films of Paul Verhoeven. It's called Pod Ship Casters. And we've gotten today to... I'm going to send this to you.

Go on, go on, go on, Carrie. Because you need to just read this aloud, but it's perfect for you. This is a Fulcrum Point movie. This was a huge flop upon its release and then has become weirdly one of the more profitable movies of the 90s. Yes. One of the most profitable home releases of all time.

Of all time. It's called Showgirls. It was the first studio NC-17 film, right? Yeah, it was trying to break that glass ceiling. Because Henry and June, that was like an indie movie, right? I'm trying to think of prior NC-17s. This was like the first big studio funded where intentionally we know going into this it's going to be an NC-17. I think Henry and June is the only other studio.

Because I think Henry and June, hilariously enough, was a universal film. Really? Which is insane. Philip Kaufman was like, Anayas Nin? Anyway, sorry. And people thought this was going to be the one that broke ground and allowed

NC-17 movies to be a viable financial prospect by studios. Not so much. It was totally abandoned after this film. But you're right. We're talking about Paul Verhoeven here. Did you name the pod ship casters? Pod ship casters,

I named that and the film is called Sugar Girls. Sugar Girls. So yeah, you know, this is a man who was, when he made this movie,

Hollywood loved him. He hadn't had a flop yet. No, no he had not. Three huge hits in a row, Robocop, totally calling basic instinct. Yeah.

I mean, each one bigger than the last. Yes, truly, right? I think each one outgrossed the, oh, no, we looked up, Total Recall made a little more thaninct. Yeah. I mean, each one bigger than the last, almost. Yes, truly, right? I think each one outgrossed the last. Oh, no, we looked up. Total Recall made a little more than Basic Instinct.

But I mean, Basic Instinct was a more surprising phenomenon. Right, exactly. Yes, yes. Right, so this is a big swing here. And it's also a huge, yeah. It's a big swing for Joe Esterhaus, for sure. Well, that's the other person we got to talk about. We'll have talked about him in the Basic Instinct episode last week,

but this is when he really has total carte blanche to do whatever the fuck he wants. This movie was a pitch written on a napkin, which was sold for $2 million. That is correct. This entire movie feels like it was written on a napkin. The napkin was $2 million, and he got got an additional 1.7 million for the script itself yeah right they had to pay two million for the napkin so they'd have the honor of paying him an additional 1.5 to write lines like that is true which fun fact i'm not even gonna say that is it a planet hollywood in cincinnati oh the napkin? In Cincinnati?

Of all places? Why is it in Cincinnati? You gotta put some stuff in. I mean, they gotta fill out all the different places. Introduce our guest. Our guest has done a great job talking before she was introduced. Which is what we want.

Earmark of a great blank check. No pressure. She is a friend and a writer whose work you can read on Vox and other places. Different places. Different places. Different places! Ladies and gentlemen, Caroline Frank is here. Hi.

Former AV clubber. Oh, yeah. That's how David and I know each other. That's right. I'm doing finger guns in his direction. You can't see it. Were you ever in the same office or were you just on the same site? I didn't actually even meet David in person until like a few years ago.

That's right. Because I lived in LA. Because you lived on another coast. And he was furious about it all the time. We lived in a different place. I didn't meet David until today. Shit. Yeah.

How are you doing? I'm doing okay. It's very different than I thought you'd look. until today shit how you doing I'm doing okay very different than I thought you'd look hey how you doing I always thought you were Ben from the artwork I've been recording

every episode in studio but in a box yeah no he comes in in a box I feel like we're in a fittingly stupid mood

for this show this movie can you tell me right about TV most of the time yes well this is a movie about shows it's a movie about shows there you go

the business of show the business of show and no business like it in that it is objectively the single worst business that's the thesis of this movie. Certainly. Certainly.

Showgirls. God, where do you even begin with showgirls? Well, yeah. So let's talk about. Because when I put this on last night, Joanna was like. Your girlfriend? True. Humblebrag.

Was like, asked the pretty normal question of. What the fuck is this? What's it about? Like, you know, how do you pitch showgirls? Yeah. So I was like oh you know it's like this like

star is born kind of thing but it's like very sexually explicit so it was rated NC-17. Right. And her response was I don't want to watch that.

And also literally every character you will meet for the entire run time of this film is bad. Is an abuser is abused on screen

or both there's one character who's the best character yeah her friend correct oh no now I feel bad because it wasn't her friend

he actually said is abused on screen and of course she doesn't I'd say every character falls into one or the other if you like a character you have to watch them go through horrible things

who are you going to say Crystal Connors oh you know what you know what she's not wrong it's a hot take because the thing about Crystal Connors. Oh, you know what? You know what? She's not wrong. It's a hot take. Because the thing about Crystal Connors is she dances up to that edge, but she never

actually does anything. Now, is that a fault of a strange script that sort of forgets about her? Probably. Maybe. Gina Gershon's like the only one in this movie who I think does anything worthwhile. Ben and I were discussing this off mic, where we were like, is she actually good? Like, she's almost entirely helpful. I've been trying to crack this one for 15're like, is she actually good? She's good. Almost entirely helpful.

I've been trying to crack this one for 15 years. Why is Nomi mad at her? Oh, that changes every other scene they have. It's so unclear their dynamic between the two characters. No, they're totally confusing. I think Gina is good. The movie is positioning her. I can't figure that one out either.

The movie is positioning her as a predator for the first half. And then it just sort of stops doing it and so by the end it kind of presents like a tragic love story right at the end

it's almost like a Cyrano thing that's true you know I mean we'll get into it but I just like I love that the subtext of every female rivalry becomes text in this

it's just yeah they want to fuck though they want to fuck though I respect that very baseline I respect that about this movie. I also think, I think maybe they thought, he thought of it as a twist, Esther House,

where it's like, you think she's the one who's trying to kind of like manipulate her into bed. Sure. And Kyle MacLachlan is like the friendly guy who's with her. And then twist, he sucks too. And then twist, he sucks. But it's like, we saw him.

We were aware that he's going to suck. It's not exactly shocking that he sucks but it's like we saw him we were aware that he's gonna suck like it's not exactly shocking that he sucks i think the one nice thing he does is he's nice about versace sure that's his cool moment what do you mean versage versage okay um versace yeah uh that was meant to be a twist the problem is that paul verhoeven is a director who does not like actors to play subtext. Certainly, less and less as his career goes on as well, yes. Right, you know, maybe he gets it a little back once he leaves Hollywood. He does, but not, I mean, because I would say Starship Troopers is even less. Correct.

Has even less subtext than this film, which is impressive. Correct. Doesn't seem possible. That movie is actors as props. That's like actors as mannequins. He has no respect for the actors right openly openly but at least the lead actors he has no respect for casper van diem yes which we're gonna talk about but uh in this movie with our guest casper he'll do it that'd be incredible uh this movie i feel like he does have respect for his actors except maybe elizabeth berkeley i have no idea what that relationship would have been like with him because i i he's this movie, I feel like he does have respect for his actors, except maybe Elizabeth Berkley.

I have no idea what that relationship would have been like. Well, I was reading some interviews with him. He's a weird man. I think you wanted me to tell the story of how I first saw this movie because that is what convinced you I should do it. But part of it was because... All right, so this is such a roundabout way to get to where I was going. Well, I guess that's this podcast, right? Come on, guys.

We'll travel to a different place, man. So when I was living in Los Angeles, David's favorite place. L.A., baby. I love L.A. It's a song I wrote that Randy Newman sang. Oh, it was really good. It's really bad.

I hate L.A. Oh, subtext. The thing about Randy Newman is he's a tricky little bastard. Sure. Sometimes he sings stuff that he doesn't mean. All right, we are now sidetracking a sidetrack conversation. No, this is perfect.

Hey. Yeah. So there are these outdoor screenings in the summer at Hollywood Forever Cemetery. Really fun. And for the 20th anniversary of Showgirls, they did. They were going to do a Showgirls thing. It was packed. I think it was sold out, which is about 4,000 people.

It was in the cemetery. It was in the cemetery. Hollywood Cemetery is the single best place to watch Showgirls. It's awesome. Because that's what this movie is, essentially. Yeah, I mean... He's not wrong.

Thematically? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not wrong. Yeah, it's always fun, but it's especially fun for the stuff that's super campy because everyone's been there for hours waiting to get in.

Everyone's drunk. Right, right. It's summer. It's, you know... It's a capital E event. Right, like I think I saw like a sedate Hitchcock there once and I definitely fell asleep and it wasn't the movie's fault right no it's not it's not it's easy to fall asleep with those outdoors but showgirls is perfect yeah yeah and right before

it starts the guy's introducing and then he's like oh we have a special guest and out comes elizabeth berkeley the whole place goes fucking crazy so this is it's june oh i looked it up because i someone had a video of it it's June 26 2015 because that was also the day that the Supreme Court backed same-sex marriage

okay so it's the 20th anniversary and everyone at this screening is in a great mood yeah right Elizabeth Berkley

comes out and that's by the way why the Supreme Court came down that way they were all going to vote nay and then they realized that showgirls

shit it's the 20th anniversary. You can't disrespect it. No, but I mean, it was, and I had never seen it. Okay. You'd heard of it. I'd heard bits about it, but I had never seen it, which I gather is, I hadn't even seen it on cable in pieces or anything.

I hadn't seen any of it. I knew some of the quotes. I knew the hands, which she did for us, by the way way she ended her speech like it was like a mic drop but it was the hands it's I think we should use that because I feel like she has a complicated relationship with this she really does and she you know she basically she looked out and she was like this is incredible and I've never watched this movie with anyone who liked it before basically it was actually like a you should look it up it's really um it was pretty touching because she was like, I had an incredible experience making this movie. I fought for this part.

She really thought like this was going to make her. Right. The list of actresses who turned down this role. Isn't Charlize one of them? Yes. Angelina Jolie. And we're talking about Charlize and Angelina when they were not famous. Right.

So, but Elizabeth Berkley got it and stuff. She did. And she was like, I mean, I think she even stopped dancing after this. This is why Dancing with the Stars was, this is the hole I fell down. famous. But Elizabeth Berkley got it. She did? I think she even stopped dancing after this. This is why Dancing with the Stars was, this is the hole I fell down. Her whole career got kind of quiet. She's one of those people where I think the public response was so harsh to the movie that she kind of went like, I'm fine backing away.

Also, her agent fired her. Which is fucked up. Yeah, no. She got a lot of blame for this which is not totally fair. And she was talking about how, I mean, she was 23. She was like, I was young and it was hard. 23? When it came out, she was 23.

Right. So that part was depressing because she was like, I had this incredible time making this movie. And then it came out and then it was more painful than you can imagine because everyone hated it so much. So she was really excited to watch it in the cemetery with 4,000 drunk idiots who loved her movie. And knew every line. She was like, there are 4,000 gnomies here, 4,000 crystals, your nails look amazing. That's what they did. It was really

nice. So then, you know, that's how I went into Showgirls, which was pretty cool. That's an interesting way to go into it, though, because the first time I watched Showgirls, as I was telling Ben off mic, I was 13 years old. It was on British TV late at night. And yes, I did grow up in Britain, Caroline. Did you?

As did you. A little bit. A little bit. There are two of us. Oh, you've been in the box. Yeah, he grew up in England. Go on. But Caroline...

What? We're everywhere. Can you double layer the Big Ben shines? Perfect. I mean, I didn't grow up there as long as you did. I think it was just like three or four pivotal years. It was like nine to 13. What were your years?

Who were your years? Who were my years? Let's see. Oh, no, I moved there the week that Princess Diana died. Okay. That's true. 1997. Yeah.

So what were your ages? Like nine to 13. Oh, nine to 13. Yeah, those are years. And then I moved back to the same town I moved away from and puberty had hit me all wrong. Hey man, it happens to us all. I know.

Those were pivotal years though. I didn't do boarding school. I didn't do that. You didn't. Getting a phone call. I'm sorry. No, it's fine. It's fine.

So you watched it on TV but it was uncut. It was. So you watched it on TV, but it was uncut. It was coming on TV. It was British TV, so it's uncut. The only thing you're not allowed to show on British TV is an erect penis. Really? And even that, I think you can show, but maybe not on the BBC. Maybe these rules have changed, though. I'm talking about when I'm a kid.

I just remember that used to be the rule where it's like, the BBC will show anything but an erect penis. That's the one bridge, too. And how old are you again? You're 13? 13. So I know what this movie is, like vaguely, because if it's 13, this is a few years after Showgirls came out,

where I'm like, oh, that's the famous sex movie. Great. I can't wait to watch this. It's going to be an awesome experience for a 13-year-old horny boy. Which is definitely how I watched it the first time, too. Exactly. And then I watch it, and even 13 year old David 5 minutes in was like oh no this right. This is not going to satisfy

whatever I was looking at to satisfy. This is for me one of the least erotic experiences movie watchers experience. It is incredibly aggressively unsexy. It's really bizarre how unsexy this film is. It's almost ruinous. No at several points during this movie I'm like no one involved in the making of this film has had sex. No. Or knows what it looks like.

It's war on the breast yeah i was in pain eroticism of the breast i guess is the better way to put it because it certainly it celebrates it's oh i thought you meant physical war and i'm like no i felt a physical pain there's a lot of bouncing but in all senses in terms of the imagery in terms of the energy of the film like everything about how this film positions sex the human body dialogue between human beings honestly about like the utter commodification

going on in these but anyway so instead I was just transfixed by this really weird movie when I was 13 and then like not long after that you know like I mean basically when I was a teenager I then, like, not long after that, you know, like, I mean, basically, when I was a teenager, I had friends who were, certainly any friend I can think of who obsessed with this movie was gay,

not to paint with a broad brush or whatever. But certainly, I mean, I already did. A lot of, Caroline repainted the whole studio. Like, you know,

broadly. And so, I mean, my, I have seen this movie many times. My former roommate, andy who i've shouted out on this podcast before because he was a big clifford fan hey listen back to that episode folks uh his family named their dog after clifford which is still to me the weirdest thing

in the world because why is that weird well because one there's a famous dog called clifford well sure but they named him after martin short's character in the movie clifford okay it's like you know beethoven because you like the composer i mean that's why charles gordon's family named him beethoven right and also in the plot of clifford they named clifford clifford because they like the books you should have named the dog mason if you wanted to do it right. Yeah, that would have been. I want to say Mason. That's it. He loved my roommate, Andy, former roommate, Andy loved this movie. And we used to do different places at each other a lot. And a lot of other lines.

It was, it was a big movie for him. So I've always known this movie as like a beloved camp classic, even if it's never been one of my movies exactly, but like I've seen it a lot and it's like probably've like probably seen this movie five times i definitely watched it the first time i there was an entertainment weekly i think it was 2003 cover story the top 25 cult movies of all time sure and i was like 13 14 that was the exact age where i wanted to read that cover story and be like what are the movies that can make me think I'm cooler than other people? Because I appreciate them on a different, right. And so I, for a while, was like systematically trying to go through all of them, either from

renting them or scanning when they were on TV. And so I feel like I probably watched it for the first time with that frame around it, but also as like- But also on cable TV. And as a horny 14-year-old boy being like, well, look, I can't lose. It's showgirls. I'm going to get something out of this movie. You can and you will.

Right. And then by the time like minute three happened, I was like, well, I'm not liking this on that level at all. And then it just became this like fascinating curio object. And it was like I would watch movies, especially at that time, things I knew had cult statuses. Yeah. I'd watch them be like, what are the lines I have to know to be able to quote back to people to show that I get it? Of course you did. Because I even remember at the time, like, UCB had a long-running show

called Showgirls, the best movie ever made, I think. And it would be, like, every Saturday at midnight, they'd do, like, a Showgirls restaging. It was, like, peak New York City. Showgirls is, like, a barometer for whether or not you get it. And I wanted to, like, like you know pre-digest the stuff um but but then it was always just like a thing with like friends if it was like finding a movie to watch i'd be like we should watch showgirls and it became this curio object

for me because it is high camp but also it's such a fundamentally fucking sad movie. Like there's this weird masochistic element to how many times I saw this when I was a teenager because this movie made me so uncomfortable. You're weird. Because this movie weaponizes sex in a way that totally turns me off and also emotionally is like devastating. I mean, that's the movie he thought he was making. Right. Which even if the movie doesn't totally work it's still like a deeply bruising experience i mean if yes yes and if you were just to explain the story without actually seeing the movie right explain the story because it's very light on story yes it's like woman moves to vegas she wants to be a showgirl and she does does end the film. Right. First she's a stripper. She gets noticed by a showgirl.

She becomes the showgirl. Yep. She usurps head showgirl by pushing her down the stairs and sleeps with her boyfriend in a totally normal way. Yep. The way they sleep together,

I mean. Oh, yeah, yeah. No attracts. And then almost immediately realizes that the, you know, the cost of fame

is too high and leaves. By way of her friend's gang rape. She'll get to you. Oh, yes. It's like a weird remake of The Red Shoes. Or A Star is Born. Right. Which he said.

Esther House wanted to make like an old-fashioned MGM musical. The two of them were like, we love old MGM musicals. Can we do a grand old, let's put on a show musical? Right, but in the world of Vegas showgirls. That was then the next leap they made was contemporary. Oh, Vegas would be an interesting setting for it if it was that kind of world. And then somehow they write

that down in a napkin. They get $2 million. He writes that down and then this napkin ends up in Paul Verhoeven's hand. They just work together. Right, and he's like, great idea. Like. Unsexy thriller time. Right.

Exactly. I will make this movie. And then you're in trouble. Because then Paul Verhoeven's like, hey, whatever you think you want. I'm going to give you something else. Right. He's the Randy Newman of filmmakers. Ding dong.

Ding dong. Ding dong. Griffin, get the door. Okay. Let's see what's. That's weird. I don't see anything door. Okay. Let's see what's... That's weird. I don't see anything here. Is that a ghost?

Oh, yes, it's me. All right. All right. Stop blowing out the mic, ghost. I'm the ghost of Julia Child. I don't sound like this because I'm a ghost. You may remember this is how i always sounded it's a real legend in the studio with us today ben can't believe it how you doing julia wonderful oh my god uh what's up oh well i've been struggling lately. I want to cook, but I go to the grocery store and the produce falls through my ghost fingers. I can't buy anything.

So you're saying you need someone to deliver the food to you. Yes, to my ghost apartment. You have a ghost apartment? Yes. Do you live ghost downtown? Yes. All right. It's good to know.

Yes, it's a ghost studio in a ghost walk-up well it sounds like you need maybe the leading meal kit delivery service in the united states to help you out oh yeah it's called blue apron maybe you've heard of it yeah yeah i've worn a blue apron before well no that's fine i mean to be clear that's valid oh thank you but the blue apron is a service that uh delivers ingredients to your door so that you can cook food at home cooking i love cooking how did you know yeah i'm julia child just random guess also you've only been talking about food since you entered um well with incredible ingredients and chef designed recipes blue apron

can let you see what the power of food can do so i can see the power of food even though most people cannot see me i really want you to just talk as little as possible okay uh well let me just tell you some things i've been using blue Apron for the last couple of weeks. Humble bread. Good call. Thanks for calling me out on that, actually. Keep me real. They send out fresh pre-portioned ingredients in little packages with a recipe card and

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it help to hear that you can pick two or three or four recipes a week based on what fits your schedule yes that helps a little all right this will seal the deal it's non-gmo ingredients and meat with no added hormones oh but i'm sure i'll have to pay exactly what I feel comfortable paying, plus another $30 for my first order. No, blank check. Blue Apron is giving blank check listeners $30 off their first order. All you have to do is visit blueapron.com slash check. I have to check that I typed in Blue Apron? Thank you for double checking with me on this. No, you check out this week's menu and you get $30 off at blueapron.com slash check.

It's Blue Apron. It's a better way to cook. Oh, I can't wait to go tell my friend Casper. I want to... Not the ghost. The chef from the movie Chef. Uh-huh. Jon Favreau's name was Casper.

Good to know. Bit of a misdirect there. Double misdirect, honestly. Honestly, yeah. With an ad, it's a little bit sweaty. Bit of a misdirect there Double misdirect honestly Honestly yeah Can I tell you about With an ad It's a little sweaty Can I tell you about

A couple of recipes That got coming up Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee

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Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Wee Spicy chicken and stir-fried vegetables with jasmine rice? Oh, my God. If you want pasta, they got creamy fusilli buccati pasta with fried rosemary and walnuts. That sounds good. Yes. Can you eat? No. Or do you just like cooking? I like cooking.

It's for others. Well, take advantage of Blue Apron. Thank you. No, I just like making food for others. The selfless art. Blueapron.com slash check. That's where you want to go. $30 off.

Hey, Julia, come on. Let's get out of here. Oh, my God. David, look. It's Carl Casper, Jon Favreau's character from the movie Chef. Oh, my God. Cut him off. Okay, we're leaving.

Bye. Good Favreau. So, anyway, Randy Newman. Oh, Randy Newman. He's a sneaky motherfucker. So, you're right. He's a sneaky motherfucker. So you're right. He's a sneaky little bastard. Esther Haas came up with the idea in Maui on vacation.

He told Verhoeven, Verhoeven told Esther Haas he'd always loved to make, he'd always loved big MGM musicals and wanted to make one. Esther Haas was like, what if we made one in Vegas? He writes something down on a napkin, gets $2 million. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? So, this movie already has this notoriety as, like, the most expensive script of all time. Well, and this was the time period where there was, like, the arms race between Shane Black and Esther House to see who could get the bigger spec script sale.

And the other challenge was how quickly can you write your script? Because the long kiss goodnight was how Shane Black you write your script? Because the Long Kiss Good Night was how Shane Black got like 5 million for that. And he wrote it in like 18 hours or something. It became like how little work can we do to make the most money? And Shane Black like hit rock bottom and was like my life is bankrupt. I need to get away from this.

Shane Black actually just took 10 years off whereas Esther House had to basically be like kicked out of Hollywood at some point. Because he was like I've got more ideas folks I assume that both he and Shane Black were just I mean this movie

feels like it was written by someone who has just can only consume cocaine like food means nothing to him this was written between the hours of one and four in the morning exclusively

on one given night every line oh shit my homework's due yeah right every line is to use a phrase that is more common in today's parlance very extra yeah where it's like it's doing the most exactly or it's like rather than these people just saying like hi how you doing my name's you know like he's like what

if every line was just like extremely confrontational and aggressive well and it's also like even like when it's just two friends meeting i Yes. I mean, there's a lot of soap opera in it. Yes. It has that Lifetime movie kind of vibe, but just jacked even higher. And it's also like, okay, what is everything I coke-addled Joe Esterhaus has ever wanted to say to a woman? And then the other half of the dialogue is, what's everything I fantasized about a woman saying to another woman? The dialogue between women in this movie is bananas.

I know, I know. It is amazing. I mean, Caroline, you already had a good take. Did I? Well, yeah. Which one? The Crystal Connors is my everything? The subtext as tech. There's like these weird flirtatious dynamics that

mainstream Hollywood movies would usually avoid. Right, but I mean of course they're written by men, but every female rivalry like that, I mean, actually no, Bring It On wasn't written by, was it written by a man? I can't remember now. It was not. It was directed by a man, written by a woman. That's right, okay. But like, you know, you've got a blonde and a brunette who have a lot of chemistry, usually way more than the guy

they're going for in the end. And I respect that this movie's like, yeah, that's exactly what's happening. Well, and I think, you know, so then he writes the script and then Paul Verho movie is like yeah that's exactly what's happening well and i think you know so then he writes the script and then paul verhoeven reads and he's like yes you've got it hollywood is all pimps and all women are prostitutes yes yes and joe esterhouse is like i can't hear you right now because there's cocaine in my ears i have a guy blowing it into each eardrum with straws and paul rovin's like yes i will make this movie you know like that's i just feel like that's the the trick with him every time yes where he he reads your trashy script and he's like no i understand the world is shit yes everyone is very bad to everyone well that's what um you

and i both had to buy this on dvd in order to watch it for DVD in order to watch it for this. I bought it on Blu-ray. You bought it on Blu-ray. I'm so sorry. Blu-ray. Okay, so you probably had more special features than I did. Yeah, I haven't watched any of the special features yet, but I have the 15th anniversary edition. It is currently unavailable to rent from any legal online stream platform. No, no, Fandango Now. Fandango Now. I'm sorry, I didn't check Fandango Now.

I did not try it, though, so I can't speak for it. I watched it on the much maligned Tubi.tv, which I'd heard mixed things from. And every 10 minutes, there's another five ads and the movie took me four hours to watch. Which is unacceptable for showgirls. A nightmare. And there's too much introspection time within those ads to go like, what am I watching? Where am I in my life right now?

And were they at, I can't imagine they were at any logical break. No, absolutely not. No, it's one of those like automated, arbitrary. Just like 12 minutes. Every nine minutes and 12 seconds. Yeah. It'll be like mid word. It'll suddenly go to a commercial.

Yeah. And it'll be like five insurance company commercials. But it's usually the same commercial five times in a row. Oh, good. No, that's perfect. I think I watched the best version. Oh, please. So I got it perfect. I think I watched the best version. Oh, please. So, I got it illegally.

I'm not correct. Yeah. But it definitely was, like, it was like a Technicolor. It was like an old... It was super cranked up. Oh, it was so just saturated. It looked like... Your eyes have just lit up. Yeah. It reminded me of watching TV in the 90s. Like, I got

kind of excited by how shitty it looked. That is kind of a cool idea. And like this whole like the director going like, well, actually I originally wanted to be in black and white and then like fucking recolor timing in black and white for some new Blu-ray release. It'd be great if Verhoeven did a new Showgirls where he was like,

I just want to emulate like four strip Technicolor process and make Showgirls look like it was shot in 1952. Hasn't he talked about wanting, like, he was like, if Elizabeth Berkley were still, like, 25, I'd do another one and be called Bimbos. I read that somewhere. Has he really? Oh, God.

I hope that's real. I hope I didn't just... What a bunch of glorious forensics. Well, that'd be great. But, yeah, so we both watched it on DVD, but I watched, like, you know, there was one special feature, and it was just a making-of feature,

and it was kind of depressing because there was so much work put in, and everyone was so excited about what they were making and kyle mclaughlin at one point and he's talked a lot about how he didn't realize what movie they were making and was horrified at the premiere and didn't know otherwise why would he have said this movie at this point in time it's insane for him to do this so he's talking about the movie and he's just like well you know it's you know people like men manipulate women women manipulate men everyone manipulates each other and i was like that is not what this movie's about but you also now i understand why you did it because you thought you were making that movie right i guess i think the year before this he

plays the villain in the flintstones and that is a character with more subtlety and nuance is more sympathetic yeah yeah like why would he do this? It's just, like, this character, like... Well, because he was like, oh, this director, I like this director. I guess, right, you go, like, he's a mad genius. Yeah, he, like, he...

I think, yeah, he said it was like, I love Basic Instinct, I loved, like, Total Recall, I wanted to work with this guy. But then you read the script. Like, at what point... But up until this point, he's actually really good to his stars.

And this is the film where his stars start becoming tools for his own subversion you know yeah uh here's the list they have on on wikipedia in terms of other people who are offered know me hamley anderson drew barrymore angelina jolie vanessa marcel jenny mccarthy denise richards and charlie's there on who none of them are like you know really there at that point in time. You know, even the people who had the highest profiles

are like Jenny McCarthy as an MTV host, you know? And I mean, and if they were, then I don't know where their career would be now. Right, right.

And she was like a Saved by the Bell star, so this was a big thing to be like, I'm going to move into like real legitimate studio adult filmmaking. Not adult filmmaking,

but... I mean, kind of. Kind of. That's the thing. And I think that she almost became a cautionary tale against doing this kind of movie before you've proven yourself as a legitimate actress because it ghettoizes you.

I'm back. Sorry. Derek Kushner. At the cemetery. Oh. Yes. He's apparently the guy getting implicated. Oh, how exciting. So this episode's coming out.

I got hung up reading my phone while I was reading because Jared Kushner is like the senior official. That was a very long bathroom break. It's the fucking MSNBC story. This episode is being recorded Yes.

on the day that Flynn is testifying. Or pleading guilty or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. He's pleading guilty. Which I did not know until the subway on the way here. Anyway.

This episode will be coming out end of February. So we're at like a fulcrum point right now where we're just fucking burning up. Who knows? That's a good point. Any predictions? Yeah. We may not like release these episodes. Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

You know what I mean? Like the world might have ended. Right. Hold on. We got it. We got it on the record. On the record. Oh yeah.

On the record. Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Yeah. President Sanders. President of the United States we got we got a on the record on the record oh yeah on the record sarah huckabee sanders yeah president president united states we finally got a president sanders it goes all the way down can i can i do my on the record it's like and like the vice president is like a white house janitor or something like that's all the people that are left can i do my god this is gonna be depressing though because like when it comes out it'll be like god emperor trump has you know just like had a new heart transplant so he can live for a thousand years do you remember trump yeah do you remember when we recorded our whatever episode where we realized it wouldn't come out oh it was the taruk

the first flight the first flight and we realized it wouldn't come out until after the election and i was like oh my god we can't even discuss the possibility that trump's president in the world where this episode comes out but like now we're in the opposite position where it's like, can we let ourselves get up like three months from now? Anything could happen. Anything could happen. I think Elizabeth Berkley's going to be president by the time this movie comes out. I think that's a great call. I like that she's ready.

She's put in the time, you know? It's time for a revisit. Alright, so. I just remembered my What were you guys talking about? We were talking about the list of actresses who turned it down right right but my cousin I have a cousin who's like

a decade or so older than me and I remember him when I was in high school humble brag and I had seen showgirls and I was really into it talking about how he was like out at the bar with his friends clubbing whatever and one guy showed up with his new girlfriend who was elizabeth berkeley and he spent like the whole night talking to elizabeth berkeley and

it was this thing of like yeah i just like she's been a joke for so long it was like so jarring to sit with her and have a conversation with her and have her be like so um self-aware yeah and self-effacing about the entire thing and sort of at peace with the thing in a weird way and I remember hearing that for a number of years around that time like people saying like

yeah I met Elizabeth Berkley and it's just kind of like she doesn't have a chip on her shoulder she's not like angry she just kind of was like this isn't worth it but she's like

so sweet and so smart and it kind of fucking sucks what happened I mean I think she was heartbroken I think she was really sad I do too yeah Yeah, she really loved making this movie. She wanted it to be good and then

everyone is so fucking mean. And this is also one of the most earnest performances of all time. It's incredibly earnest. The thing that's odd to me is I actually kind of like her in the Tom DeCillio however you say that. DeCillio. The Tom DeCillio movie, The Real

Blonde, which is a couple years after this oh I've never seen that one and like it's like you know she was in the first Wives Club I think that's a pretty minor that was like

yeah right the year right after this right like it's not like she's that bad in all these movies you know what I mean like

you see showgirls and you're like does this person like it really feels a lot of the time like she's not reading what the other actors are giving her which is like a very big where like her energy is way too high or too low or something

i mean yeah i was reading an interview with verhoeven he was like everyone blamed that on her but i made her kind of do that jerkiness exactly when you see other movies you're like no it's not that's not her yeah there's more going on there yeah it does feel like a movie where every performance was filmed separately yes it does It does a little bit. It's really bizarre and I also think it's a movie that feels like you're watching a poorly dubbed version

of like a foreign language cartoon. Well there's also the famous but bad dub of the movie right where Berkley refused to re-dub it for I guess the censored version so like it's a totally different actress. Right. There was like a big VH1 version that built its own sort of, like, cult around it with really bad...

Is that the one with the drawn-on bras? Yes. Yes. Like, terrible, like... Because, like, there's no way you can even have that movie. No. And it looks like, um... What's it called?

Wooly Willy? You know that thing where you draw the guy's facial hair with a magnet? A magnet pen? It looks like that. It's just barely sticking over there. It's like one step above MSP. It looks like Jessica Rabbit.

That's what it looks like. Here is a gift right now. You know what I mean? It looks like a cartoon that's vibrating, if that makes sense. It has this weird motion to it. Almost like Wooly Willy. Almost like I nailed it in the first minute. Yeah, you nailed it.

Okay. Oh my God. Ben's into this. Good gif. Good gif. I mean, this one's even crazier. Let's just look at gifs. All right.

Oh, yeah, you're right. I'll stop. Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, I'm into it. That was a sincere suggestion. But this, I was saying while you were in the bathroom, and we were all getting our hopes up about Flynn,

that this is the turning point where Verhoeven starts using his actors to his own means. Because I'd argue up until this point, he's actually pretty good to his actors in terms of representing them well. Yeah. Giving them good platforms, giving them authorship in their performance, you know? Right. Whereas this, it starts to get to, like, you are my puppets for every performance in this movie. Right.

Which, considering what this movie is about. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. All of, why is this movie two hours and ten minutes long? Great question. So I read this interview with Verhoeven. This movie could be 15 minutes long.

Well, it could be, right, the length of like a Vegas show. Yeah. This movie could be a Nickelodeon. Yeah. I read this interview with him where he was like, I think the reason that movie does not Well, it could be the length of a Vegas show. This movie could be a Nickelodeon. I read this interview with him where he was like, I think the reason that movie does not work... I just do the gold member voice. No, I love this. Yeah, into it.

I keep perking up when it happens. No, no, please. The movie has no real plot, and I think it should have had a murder mystery, and that would have made it more gripping for the audience. And I'm like, dude, I don't think that's the problem but also that is hilarious and i would love to watch show girls where there's also a murder mystery like crystal dies in the first third sure sure right exactly so that would have been a worse no me i had not seen it in a while despite having seen

several times and i was watching it and i was like i remember this having this whole revenge thriller element but i guess i was wrong about that and then eight minutes before the ending i was like no i was wrong about that. And then eight minutes before the ending, I was like, no, I was right about that. He literally just does it in the last eight minutes. And she, and she doesn't become the show girl until way deep into it. And then the corruption is like 10 minutes long.

Yes. And that's weird. It is. Well, and also, um, the movie is from the beginning, different places,

dropping hints about her, like kind of dark past. Sure. She doesn't want to give a real name. She doesn't have a social security number. She's very tense about all that stuff. Naomi Malone is obviously a fake name. Right.

And then we're finally ready to reveal her dark past. She's kind of a transient person who's- She's an orphan. She's a foster kid. Her life is just really sad. And she aggravated assault in her past. And you're like oh well okay soliciting and the whole time

she's been like I'm not a whore right like and of course that is a crucial element but it's not exactly like surprising enough to build your whole

it's not earned at all no I think he thought that would then justify all of her kind of erratic behavior sure but it doesn't

that happens so late. It's so late. The assault, the revenge, the reveal of her past, her getting the big role, all happens maybe in the last 20 minutes of a two-hour and 10-minute film. Yeah, it's way later than I remembered it being.

That section moves so fast, too. Although, it's really two hours because the credits are unspeakably long. Yes. For some reason, the credits are almost 10 minutes long. And Tubi TV took four fucking commercial breaks during the credits. unspeakably long. Yes. For some reason, the credits are almost 10 minutes long. And Tubi TV took four fucking commercial breaks during the credits.

So, showgirls. Sugar. So, right. So, any more, Esther House writes it,

they get Berkeley, they get Gina. A lot of French financing, which makes sense, because, you know, a more permissive culture. They love tits.

Because Bound is the next year. So, Gina Gershon is still, kind of, yeah more permissive culture. They love tits. Because Bound is the next year. So Gina Gershon is still kind of, yeah, she still wants that. She hadn't had a breakthrough. This was supposed to be the thing. She's just playing, like, pretty gay seducers. Yeah, yeah. Right. I mean, that's the next year.

But it's crazy how close together this and Bound are and how different those two performances are in terms of one being a human being and one being a Hall of of presidents robot version of sexuality. Okay. I love her, but that's accurate, right?

That is. No disrespect for my DNA. Thank you. And then Kyle McLaughlin, uh, obviously coming off the Flintstones, Esther house and Verhoeven did extensive, extensive interviews with 200 Vegas strippers.

Wow. And incorporated their lives into the screenplay. Make a single believable one. Esther House took out a full-page advertisement in Variety dubbing the film a morality tale, saying that it was being poorly advertised and that the film was actually about how dancers in Vegas are victimized and humiliated and raped

by men who are the power centers of that world. I mean, yeah, I'd say it's an amorality tale because the movie's just about watching awful things happen. I mean, she does get to get hers at some point. She has the revenge fantasy. She does like, I don't know. Well, no, she doesn't take his car, but she gets the stuff. But I contend this is one of the most ominous and heartbreaking endings in the history of cinema in terms of literally the final shot

go on yeah i think he thinks it's like triumphant though he's like oh well she's got the knife and now she's going to la i think it's really cynical we'll get to that when we get to that we will this movie starts at the bottom and goes lower right this movie is essentially like a journey through the the circles of hell uh right. Well so Nomi Malone. Yes. Side of the road. Hitchhiker. Young drifter.

Going to Vegas. Right. It's picked up by her driver. A real grease boy. Who immediately essentially robs her. Right.

It's just like a flock and is disrespecting her. The person I was watching with was like oh is that Blake Shelton? Obviously it's not but then I couldn't unsee it. That guy did, though.

Sexiest man alive. He came in second. The guy from Showgirls came in second. You know about the woman on the subway who said I look like Blake Shelton, right? What? Did I not tell that story on this podcast? No.

But now you do. It's going to be so topical. Past and future guest, Esther Zuckerman, on the subway riding home from a screening. Oh, so there's a witness. Yes, and a woman, a middle Zuckerman on the subway riding home from a screening. Oh, so there's a witness. Yes. And a woman, a middle-aged woman on the subway was talking with her friend and she was like, you look like Blake Shelton.

And I was kind of like, for a while she was like, who is that? You know, like they were sort of debating. To be fair, you were holding a wishing boot at the moment. You were holding a wishing boot. Stop carrying that wishing boot around.'s it's always the wishin boot it's always a um a crapshoot engaging with people on the subway who you don't know right like it's oh you're always like do i roll the dice she seemed friendly enough well she thought you look like a big shot and so i was i sort of like laughed and i was like i get it i'll take it like you know because whatever right and she was like you're cute

have you you i you know no sorry i'll get this i want to get this exactly right you're cute i can tell you've slept with a black woman which was just like i mean harsh sharp turn is is too too light for whatever that was no It was basically a U-turn. That was a 0-100 Nomi Malone style topic change. Esther Zuckerman, of course, immediately burst out laughing. And then it's like, what do I do? Like, what do I do now? Great.

So I just sort of like, ha ha. It's just like, God, anyway. So Blake Shelton gives Nomi a ride. He pulls a classic grift on her where he gives her $10 to play the slot machines. And while she's playing the slot machines, he takes all her shit. Which I have to say, she has one suitcase. It's probably full of women's clothes. She's hitchhiking.

She doesn't have anything worth taking. So why go to that trouble? I also think if she had money, she wouldn't be hitchhiking. This is true. At this early moment in the film when you go like, oh God, naive babe in the woods, thinks she's going to make it honestly. Like, oh, yeah, maybe she would fall for this ruse. But by the end of it, you're like,

she's fucking lived through too much bullshit to trust this guy to leave her suitcase in the car. Yeah, but remember, she doesn't trust him at first because she pulls the switchblade on him. Right, yes. And then finally, he has that really, I think it's actually a really great line where he says, no one's ever been nice to you before and she's such an effective neg of her where she's like

you know he's basically saying her come on i'm just i'm just being friendly like take it easy and of course yep uh lesson one no he's not all men are lying well and then also show girls in a microcosm she puts one coin in the slot machine, and so many coins come out, she's fucking Scrooge McDucking it. She's dropping them all over the floor. This is true. She's made it. Her fortunes have changed immediately, and a woman comes up and goes, what about silver dollars? And then just jump cut to no fucking money.

Vegas. Right, you know? And then she realizes, oh, how much time has passed? Where is this guy? Goes back. He's missing from the spot. Okay. Starts freaking out.

These 30 seconds are the most confusing 30 seconds I've had in a movie for such a long time. We're two minutes into the movie. I had to watch it four times. So she realizes her suitcase is gone. She runs outside. She freaks out. She starts sort of like banging her fist on someone's car. She's freaking out because the parking space is empty.

Yes, the car is gone. Her stuff is gone. So she starts attacking the next closest car. The owner of that car, who's her soon-to-be best friend, comes out and is like, get off my car. Almost punches her in the face. Almost punches her in the face. They freak out.

They start fighting. They know me. Projectile vomits. Yes. This is true. Projectile vomits. Like brown, gross vomit. And the friend I was watching this with has a phobia of vomit.

And metaphobic. Like a legitimate phobia of vomit. Andaphobic person yes person oh nice good good pull and she panicked screamed we had to pause it it's a little rough if you are afraid of throwing up because she was like up in movies like all the time but she's like usually i know when it's coming because there's a tell and in this there's no tell no it just happens you don't even know that she was drinking. Well, that's the thing. She wasn't drinking. It's never explained. This movie has a lot of cuts to the future. It's two hours and ten minutes

and yet it feels like there are three hours missing. This movie... It is fair. And then she runs into the street. She almost gets hit by a car and then they... No, it's fucking crazy how many... Because also, even before then,

there's this scene where he pulls the car over to the side of the road like in front of a truck like there should be like 18 car accidents she almost dies

four times in the first two minutes of this movie it's so stressful and then Molly wraps her in her arms and they gaze at each other

with it's the most loving gaze I've ever seen and they hug with their faces so close together that when they're lining up for the hug,

I genuinely thought, are they about to make out after she just vomited in the street? It's so sudden. They barely miss each other's mouths when they start hugging. Right, and her mouth is still flecked with vomit. Right, poop water vomit.

She vomits out of diarrhea. It's like it's black, it's chunky. It's very disturbing. It's like Exorcist style, like there's a demon in you and you're throwing it up now. And then hard cut to burger joint. Hard cut to burger joint.

You just threw up and now we're eating. They're eating fries. They're eating like a giant plate of cheese fries or something. Having again one of the flirtiest conversations. She is eating the shit out of those fries. She's like angrily like slamming her cup down. This is the first different places. Exploding ketchup onto the fries.

This is the first different places. Does she seem upset though? Not yet. It's a upset, though? Not yet. It's a hard... I'm not sure. I'm looking for a tell in this scene. Is she angry while she's eating those fries? Well, I mean,

if you look beneath. Right. Subtext it. Paul, I feel like I'm playing the anger. Are you sure? It's not reading! I'm watching on the monitor. It's not reading. Elizabeth Berkley did tell us all

that she hopes that we all eat our fries as energetically as Nomi. And I have ever since. So she has seen this movie a lot, it sounds like. I guess so. At least she knows the moments where people made fun of it. Or like, yeah least she knows the moments where people made fun of it or like

yeah she knows she knows so cut from that from different places to Nomi and Molly who's played by Gina Rivera

who is like a total unknown practically she had been in she had played the role of Funk Queen in Lombada

she is in my opinion the best performance in the movie. I agree with that. Well, Gina Gershon is pretty fucking incredible. Well, they're doing very different things. But I think her performance is harmful in some ways.

And again, I think this is kind of her Hovind's fault. Where like Nomi is dialed up to like 10 million, whereas Rivera is playing Molly like pretty normal and like is quite a relatable human being from the second you meet her. And you're like, one, why are these two people friends? And two, what is wrong with Nomi or slash Elizabeth Berkley?

Is there a fire? What is happening to her? And we seemingly hard cut from this burger conversation where Nomi seems like a lunatic to, oh, now they've been living together for three weeks and they're best friends and she's gotten a job.

Not only that, she's a stripper which is not explained until we see her at the strip club we cut ahead to already she's trying to get a job at the showgirls at the show but she's a stripper but we don't see her become a stripper it's just kind of like that's just what happens

which I think is to be clear a good decision story wise I actually like that I'm glad there isn't a scene where she decision story-wise. Sure. I actually like that. Me too. I'm glad there isn't a scene where she has to meet Robert Davi and he's like, listen, this is how I rub my joint, you know, cheetahs. I meet ugly. Molly works at the show. She, even from the moment that Blake Shelton picks her up in the truck,

is like, I'm a dancer. That's what I want to do. And he's sort of making backhanded comments. She's very clear in mind, like, I don't want to be a stripper. And we flash ahead like however many weeks. And also in the Vegas thing, there's that guy where some guy tries to pick her up. And he's like, you're going to have to start selling it

sooner or later. But then we jump ahead and she's doing the job that she didn't want to do despite her best friend and roommate being the person who works at the place that she's trying to break into, but seemingly hasn't taken a swing at that yet. So she's working at Cheetah's. I want to read you

the Wikipedia entry for Cheetah's. Oh, the real Cheetah's? Yeah, it's a real place. Cheetah's Topless Club is a topless bar located two branches, one in Vegas, one in San Diego. Best known for being featured in the 1995 Moving Showgirls. Also known for having been owned by Mikeillardy a nightclub owner who was investigated by the fbi

um the cheetahs club in san diego is a full nude club no alcohol is served interesting it is achieved notoriety for being frequented by some of the september 11th hijackers oh what what uh what a wikipedia entry for your business that took several turns yep a lot of turns do you think they were showgirls fans uh the september 11th hijackers yeah it's just really funny that when you go to see also link one planning of the september 11th attacks plan two showgirls i mean like link to show right right right right right anyway sorry uh her best friend is a body comedian yes okay and this was so okay so this is where i want caroline to talk yes i need caroline to come in i feel like you have much more understanding of the world of like burlesque and uh i mean

to be clear i'm like very adjacent i have a lot of friends who are in nightlife and yes yes and um and i was watching the movie this week with a couple of them, which was useful because they're actually connoisseurs of bad movies. Okay. Sure. And also work in drag and burlesque and stuff. And the first thing they said about this strip club and that and the body comedian, who I think is in Orange is the New Black. Is she? I think she is.

I need to look her up because she's awesome. She's really good in it. But the first thing they said, they're like, there's no fucking way that that comedian is at that strip club like that strip club would not employ that person it's really odd too because it's right like all this all of the show you know the strip club is just like two women naked grinding on each other oh yeah so that's the other thing then like let's all let's turn over to this stage though and she comes out and she's doing like a vaudeville she's doing a vaudeville thing she has a dress you know she

it like you know it drops her boobs come out it's a whole thing she's like doing numbers there's like jokes like it's it's more drag than it is

right strip club that would happen in a more high end artistic sort of yeah right her name is Lynn Tutu

she's the funniest person at the Moulin Rouge you know sure she's the new black yeah so that's very confusing I mean I didn't really understand what the strip club was for a second because you're just seeing the well yes thank you Yeah, on Rouge, you know? Sure, which is the new black. Yeah. So I can carry out. Yeah, so that's very confusing.

I mean, I didn't really understand what the strip club was for a second, because you're just seeing the... Well, yes, thank you. But we get a touch of the Tucci. Lynn Tucci. Yeah, a touch of the Lynn Tucci. Oh, okay. I was like, are we talking about burlesque now? Are we talking about the movie Burlesque, starring Stanley Tucci?

You get more than a touch in that one. Yeah, that's true. You get a soupçon. Soupçon. So this is soup-son. Soup-son. So this is her work friend. Soup-son. This is her work friend. Yeah, sort of the work den mother.

Henrietta Mama Bazoum. I'm sure that was her birth name. Yes. They call her Henry. Yeah. And her boss is Robert Davi. Yeah. In an Oscar or was it a Nobel Prize winning performance?

In my favorite performance in any film. I'm going to keep saying that every actor is my favorite actor in the movie. So we started with Molly then it was Lynn Tucci

now it's Robert Davi. Right. But he's in that great tradition of acne scarred tough guys. He's generically awful. He was on the table in the late 80s

early 90s. Right. He was born wearing a leopard print button down. Right. I mean. Yes. Yes.

He plays his character's called Al. These are Al's girls. You can call him Al. He's Al? He doesn't seem like an Al. What does he seem like to you? Like a Vinny. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. Not to stereotype, but yeah. Yes. He could be a Vinny. I'll just keep stereotyping for you. Go on. Keep talking. He's he could be a Vanny. I'll just keep stereotyping for you. Go on, keep talking. He's a proprietor with a heart of shit. And we see a new employee come in whose name is Penny,

but he tells her that, I believe he says, clients don't want to fuck a Penny. Yes, they want to fuck a Hope. Right. Now, do you know that the actress who plays penny yes this is the best years later wrote directed and starred in an unofficial showgirls 2 reprising her character and do you know what the title of that film is isn't it called like pennies from heaven or something like that which sounds like a porn title penny apostrophe s as in Penny comes from heaven.

Right. That is where she is coming from. It's okay that you thought that was a porn title because her name in it is Penny Slott. I just clicked on this movie. Which is very easy to rent. Which was funded with Kickstarter. This movie is longer than Showgirls it is 143 minutes long it was directed by fucking bella tar this is done art film joke yeah uh yeah 143 minutes long should

we watch it i mean probably how to do at the box office i believe it was not really theatrically i believe he's correct there was also a moment when she walked in and I thought she was Gina Gershon in a blonde bob wig there was a moment

a lot of wigs in this movie a lot of wigs well yes a lot of wigs actually pretty good wigs I was gonna say that's the thing about this movie is that it's

when I was watching it with these friends who like they watch terrible I've watched some like truly like no one should this movie barely came together.

This is kind of like a crystal version of like, I've seen worse movies, but they're like, we've never seen a movie this bad with this high a budget. Well, that's the thing. It's such an expensive movie

and it's all on the screen in my opinion. It's actually a good looking movie. You can see it. This isn't like, yeah, it's not even like those Vegas shows are real shows.

There's money to be paid. Yes. Everyone who goes to Vegas is's money to be made. Yes. Everyone who goes to Vegas is spending incredible amounts of money. Yes. Well, for me, there are like two different fundamental types of bad movies, right? Which are like bad movies where the thing just kind of like went wrong and it's a Frankenstein and it's just like not fucking cohesive, like a Justice League type of thing, right? Either, you know, the people involved didn't

have enough experience or the budget ran out or there were enough studio meddling or whatever and then they're bad movies like this where it just feels like the movie somehow got caught up in some like babble fish yeah like weird space where everything got mistranslated because the movie is kind of totally of a piece with its own fucking insane wavelength that's on. Sure. And all that money's up there. No movie has ever been made like this again. No.

Burlesque is kind of trying to be a more sanitized version of this movie. Well, see, that's the thing. Burlesque is trying to be this movie. And Showgirls absolutely stumbled into it. No, Burlesque is not a good movie. I did see it in theaters. I enjoyed Cher beating Kristen Bell's car with a crowbar.

Correct. Because how could you not? It's a good movie about air rights, which are important to understand if you want to know about anything in real estate. What's about the sky? But yeah, Burlesque is like trying to grab at the sort of Hubert Zirconia at the center of Showgirls and take it out. But you can't. But like any camp thing worth being campy has no idea it's that. Exactly.

That's why the first Sharknado is pretty fun, and every other one was a soul-sucking exercise in corporate motion. Sharknado is the perfect example, right? Where they're like, more Sharknado, right? Ha ha ha ha ha. We always meant for it. I mean, it's sort of like The Room, but even worse. Where they're like, ha, it was a joke. We know it was a joke. I auditioned, I think, for it. I mean, it's sort of like The Room, but even worse. Where they're like, nah, it was a joke.

We know it was a joke. I auditioned, I think, for Sharknado 3, and they told me I was too big. Like, you're too famous? No, no, no. I got the note in my performance. Hey, tone it down a little. What did you audition for? What was the part?

Some kid being chased by a Sharknado? I don't know. I went, oh, no, the Sharknado. Let's hide out in that library. And they went, hey, stop the camera for a second. Griffin, look, our director takes these movies very, very seriously. And he doesn't like to feel like the actors are mocking it. Wow, that guy sounds like an idiot.

Anthony Ferrante. Yes. He's directed them all. I know. I thought it was Thunder Lightning. No's directed them all. I know. I thought it was Thunder Lightning. No, he wrote them. Thunder Lightning.

Thunder Levin. Sorry. Thunder Lightning. Of the Pennsylvania Levin. Only slightly less ridiculous than what I just said. All right.

So Nomi, she's a stripper at the Cheetah. Yes. We're not far. We're doing fine. We only have two hours left. Yeah. She's a stripper at the Cheetah. Yes. We're not far. We're doing fine. We only have two hours left. She's a stripper.

Yes. Molly works as like an embroiderer. She's like a dressmaker. Right. At the goddess. The goddess. Right. The Stardust Casino.

Right. The show is called Goddess. Let's also say we're watching Penny now. The show appears to be about some sort of goddess who emerges from a pile of rocks. A volcano. Yes. I love the fake rocks. Respect the volcano.

Penny functions as this like, oh, this is probably what the first three weeks were like for Elizabeth Berkley that we've now skipped over. Right. It is confusing bringing her in at that moment. Right. Because it feels like that's the point of the movie we're supposed to be at. Yeah. Right.

Right. Right. Right. When instead, right, we're point of the movie we're supposed to be at. Yeah, right, right, right. When instead, right, we're already seeing it echoed again and again throughout. Like, you know, Robert Davi's job is basically just to change women's names. Yeah. Tell them who men want to fuck. Right.

But Molly takes her backstage to the show. Yes. Oh, that's right. She takes her as like a special guest. She gets dressed up. She goes to the show. She's wearing the fringy dress. There's not enough time to put your hair up. The dress.

And she meets Crystal. Yes. Who is being introduced. She's just been hired, I think, as the new star of Goddess. I guess she has. Because there's that whole press conference. Right, because there's the press conference. That's not totally clear because it feels like she's been doing it for a while.

Well, she's certainly a famous person, but maybe they poached her from another casino or something like that. But was this show running with someone who wasn't Crystal in this role, or is this whole show now? I don't, I can't remember. I think the whole show, I have another question. Does local news

put up reports about this kind of show? Is that a thing that happens in Las Vegas? I don't know. Have you seen Gina Gershon? Yeah. You don't want that on your, I feel like this whole podcast is just me being like, so Gina Gershon? Yeah. You don't want that on your... I feel like this whole podcast is just me being like, so Gina Gershon. Yeah. Welcome to our Bound episode. I'm not against it. I think in Vegas,

possibly. I think in Vegas in the 90s, more possibly. Because you cycle through residencies. Now we've got Britney Spears and J-Lo doing residencies. No doubt about that, but it's more like, right, but then also the nude reviews. Is it like hi i'm chip you know sure chip smith i don't know hey chip chip smith is my new character i love it

so what's going on in the sea chip i just did this show where a bunch of topless women dance around a volcano for 20 minutes it's got a new star we gotta bring chip smith for some ad reads this This guy's popping already. He's famous for how he forgets his last name when he's introducing himself on camera. Hi, I'm Chip Smith. His first name is much more interesting than the last name. Here you go. Oh, my God.

We have fun here on Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm just checking my phone. Chip. What's his last name again? Smith. Chip Smith is number one on the IMDb star meter. But on the star meter, it says, Chip, what's his last name again? Chip Ellipses Smith?

God. I love how if you went out to go to the bathroom, it would be for a bit where you come back as Chip Smith but I just had to pee David I've never done a bit on TV I've never done a bit respect with artistry nothing but respect for me

the almost star of Sharknado 3 yeah could have been too big I'm trying to remember the exact progression that's the problem with this movie Gina Gershon compliments her nails well it's because

Molly's going in to like fix some stuff in Gina Gershon's changing room or whatever and Gina strips and it's just like there's a bad

nipple relationship she's giving nipple notes yes to Molly and then she notices the nails they start talking

and she goes what do you do I'm a dancer wear cheetahs I don't know what you do but that's not dancing right She goes, what do you do? I'm a dancer. Wear cheetahs. I don't know what you do. But that's not dancing. Right. I don't know if you do it well, but that ain't dancing.

And Berkeley goes from one to five million. Yes, she does. She's like. You don't know shit. You don't know shit. Right. Storms out. She storms.

I mean, Elizabeth Berkeley storms out of every single room she's in in this movie. I swear to God. Imagine her like going to the DMV or something. Yeah. She almost plays this performance like the beleaguered chief of police in a buddy cop movie. You don't know shit! Yeah. How many times have I told you?

One more incident like this! It's on my ass! Yeah. How many times have I told you? One more incident like this. It's on my ass. Yeah. So, but this is the thing. If this blows up, your badges are on my desk. She goes right to cheetahs from this, right? Okay, wait, wait, wait. We're glossing over one of my favorite lines.

Please. Oh, thank you. Everyone got very quiet for it. The floor is yours. Well, just, I had forgotten. We respect women on this podcast. Oh, thank you so much. This is a very

this is the wokest of the podcast come on what's your favorite one now there's a big build up there's so many good lines in this movie I just wanted to point out that she storms out and Gina's still pretty intrigued or whatever and she's like your friend has nice nails maybe she can do mine sometime

which is the gayest line I've ever heard in any movie ever I'm nodding with sort of my whole yes your whole body that's also an example which is exciting because like you know i've kind of forgotten i'd kind of forgotten how thirsty she is for no me like the whole thing right the whole thing is her just wanting to sleep with her which i'd kind of forgotten and then that line happens and it's one of those things where you watched and you're like okay so that's like yeah it's also right But then it actually follows through

and that never is the case. That's what you said about subtext versus text where it's like, right, it's like all about Eve if, you know... Yes, exactly. There was a sexual dynamic

that was even more... If they fuck, you know? Which they... Who fucks? They did, right? Oh, you mean Tom and Val. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Down to the brunette blonde in Top Gun, too. I actually like that in Call Me By Your Name the first scene of their sort of romantic connection is at a volleyball game

subtle homage to Top Gun spoiler for the first scene of the movie that's like the sixth scene I just like that so much of the dialogue between women in this film feels so masturbatory about Esther House writing penthouse letters.

Yes. And then this is an example of, God, I'm flirting with each other. What do women talk about? Nails. And she's going to be topless. She's going to be topless. Yeah, they're topless talking about nails.

That's the one insight. No one ever... That's the one line where I was like, that feels right. Yeah. No one ever seems comfortable in this movie. It's like monkeys at a typewriter and one of them comes up with Shakespeare.

It's like, yeah, complimenting her nails. That would work. All right. So she goes to a club and gets in a huge fight with Glenn Plummer and gets like kicked out by a bouncer. Again, another example of her just like being so aggro. And kicks him in the nuts. You know, it's not she does.

It's like, wait. Yeah. So she goes, they go dancing. They go dancing. She gets in a fight with Glenn Plummer, who then bails her out of jail. Yes. Wait, but isn't that... No, doesn't she go to Cheetah's first because she goes to that club with the money she got from the Gershon Lapdins?

No, that comes after. She won't go to work because she's too pissed off. Right. And she goes to this club, and she's doing her frantic dancing, and everyone's like, wow, she can dance, and you're looking. And that's one of the few instances where, like, you've been telling us that she's an amazing dancer and this is our first time seeing it and this is what she's doing objectively she's doing a lot of dancing she's doing a lot of dancing but this is the problem with like any any single movie a devil dancing like spinning

dancing i mean the best move she does the best movie she the best move she does throughout this entire movie is the spin and the kick in the balls. It's the only one where I'm like, yeah, that's a great move. Her signature is the hands.

The hands. This sort of double fingers down. How would you describe this? It's like a reverse jazz hand. It's like a bring it on spirit finger. Sure.

Everything, all of the dancing in this movie is like almost violent. It's frantic. Right. And it's everything, all of the dancing in this movie is like almost violent. It's frantic. Right. And it's very, very,

very aggressive. It's like, it's punctuated by this score. This is like, I would describe her dancing style as Bob Fosse.

Like, I would say it's a street fighter combo move. Yes. Mortal Kombat, Bob Fosse. Depending on where

characters are in relation to her, any dance move of hers could be a finishing move. And a couple times it is. To Plummer? I don't know who choreographed this movie. I assume it had choreographers.

It was one. It was one person. I was going to say mine is fast-forwarding the dance segments in A Living Color. The Fly Girls? Yeah. 1.5 speed. See, that makes it sound awesome. Marguerite Derricks. who also this is interesting also choreographed striptease which is a movie that comes out the next year that

has similar reputation but they were like okay we got really close with showgirls as long as it's r we'll be fine and then it's r everyone will go see it then choreographed the austin powers movies which have a lot of similar dance moves. Really? That's interesting. The sort of like hands in the face kind of stuff. But that's a comedy. Right, it's a comedy.

And especially the opening dance number of International Man of Mystery is great. No, that's the thing. Those dance numbers are amazing, but they are absurd. Right. The go-go dance scene. Fascinating.

So she found her spot. And she also choreographed Donnie Darko. She choreographed Sparkle Motion. Wow. So she kind of just... She's good at the ironic, you know? She knew what frame to put around herself. Yeah. After showgirls. Fascinating. Right, right, right. Yeah, but this is the problem with saying that your character's amazing at anything.

Also choreographed Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder. Sorry. Oh, no, no, no. That was important. Thank you. But there's like a thing here where anytime you watch Nomi dancing and everyone being like, do you know what you're doing?

But just like pull it back a little bit. That's true. There is some of that. That's also how... She prowls, but they're saying that it's too sexy. Yeah.

That's always the note. And I'm like, I don't think that's the problem. Nothing in this movie is sexy. I think it's... Very little in this movie is sexy. Right, like I don't... I think it's just too much.

Certainly not too sexy. Right, it's too much. But they keep being like, it's too much sex this movie is sexy. Right, like I don't... I think it's just too much. Certainly not too sexy. Right, it's too much. They keep being like, it's too much sex. She prowls. She's like a, you know... It's not fucking, it's dancing. It's pelvic thrusting.

Right. But I feel like there is an overlap between that and watching Elizabeth Berkley give this performance where you want to keep on being like,

oh God, you can act, but just please, like you're embarrassing yourself. Like we're in public. Yeah, but she was not getting, you're embarrassing yourself. Like, we're in public. Just chill out. Yeah, but she was not getting told to pull it back. Right, but you feel watching this movie the way the people in the club do.

And she kicks him in the nuts. She kicks him in the nuts. Or rather, she dances him in the nuts. Because he's like, I could teach you. He's like, you've got potential, but I can teach you how to dance. And she knows from Creeps at this point. So she's like, I've heard that line before. He is giving her a line.

We're like, what is it? It's like, you've got the most, the best, like pure dance. Oh, yeah. That comes later. Yeah. You've got like the most natural talent. Natural. Right.

Kicking the nards and causes an entire fight to break out in the entire club. Yes. Gets arrested. And the best, I think actually one of Berkeley's best moments is when she's watching everyone beat each other up and she just smiles this little like, that's for me. Yeah. And just walks away. And that's an amazing moment.

Goes to jail, spends a night in the drunk tank. James, who is played by Glenn Plummer, bails her out. She ignores him. Yeah. I just want to talk about James. Sure. And her relationship with him in this movie. Completely confusing.

Which is extremely confusing. And to me is also a very bold underline of the whole she's gay. And this movie is also a very bold underline of the whole she's gay. And this movie is about a female relationship because the two men in her life. One is Kyle MacLachlan, which that relationship seems all about power. And their first like, you know, sexy moment is about Gina Gershon having vicarious sex with her. Correct. And then the second one, you know, the swimming pool sex scene is this sort of like athletic display. Like you want very little eroticism a word right whereas james is i guess being positioned as kind of like well he's the guy who knows real dance right like he sees the real dancer and

who sees the real her right and he's which he doesn't though no but the movie can't seem to decide whether or not he does like boverhoven's like this guy is full of shit but the script is, well, he's kind of like the guy on the bottom rung that she's going to climb over on her way to the top, right? Yeah, because eventually when he's like, I have this routine and I want you to be the star of it, when they actually do their, like, you know, when he tries to do the reenactment, it's extremely sexual. Yes. It's the same thing. And also, he's an asshole. Also, he's an asshole.

And another thing, how do you write a dance? What do you do? Kick? Number one? Punch? Two? Spin around? Three?

Is that how you write a dance? A, A, B, up, down, up, down, select. Our finest film critic, folks. Our finest film critic. It's like one of those maps with the feet. Yeah, I know. I just couldn't get past that. A little dot.

But I do think sometimes this movie is trying to argue that he's an asshole and he's abusing her and he actually believes in her talent and he's a good dancer. He's a lot of things all at once. And then sometimes it's only one or the other. Well, it's because at the point where Kyle MacLachlan has to become the asshole, he's not. Right. But he's also like, oh, I got this girl pregnant and now I have to marry her. Right. So he still sucks.

Right. Well, let's call it what it is. Pussy is his problem, as he so eloquently says. Always has been. Always has been. He has a lot of lines. Just rolls trippingly off the tongue. Everyone's got AIDS and shit.

Everyone's got AIDS. Everyone's got AIDS. I mean, everyone got AIDS and shit. Yeah. I have a problem with pussy i always have and i'm always gonna yeah and then it must be weird not having people come on you his most famous line in my opinion you fuck him without fucking him that's what you do well it ain't right yeah it ain't right and then his dance is the same thing yes so there's

james so i mean we just kind of like i just wanted to acknowledge james so we probably won't talk about him again i would like to not plays no real purpose in the movie but there is that scene where then she goes knocks on his door and a fully nude woman is well because she's in the his show right straight from heaven yeah yeah and she's mad at him and i'm like what are you mad at him all of a sudden they were dating and she's like oh she's going to be in your show. Your whole relationship was that she assaulted him and was put in jail and he bailed her out like that's their whole dynamic. When Molly picks her up in the car and they're like who is he

and it's like I kicked him in the nuts I guess he liked it. That was actually really funny. That's a terrific line. Five comedy points. It's a great line. It's a great line but then they like have their dance rehearsal like which ends up just being a lap dance which turns into them making It's a great line. But then they have their dance rehearsal, which ends up just being a lap dance, which turns into them making out,

which is aborted when she says that she's on her period, but he's still into it. But I kind of respect that he's like, I don't know, I got towels, whatever. Yeah, go for it, man. He's a little woke. He's momentarily woke. Momentarily. He's momentarily woke,

and then she now has this power where she's like... She's played that exactly right. Is it woke to have so that's insane sorry i don't we shouldn't uh we shouldn't go down that we shouldn't go down this alleyway i just like who fucking cares as long as everyone's happy and you know happy and warm happy and warm that scene is no disrespect to the citizens of antarctica what are you saying they can't have sex that scene is really no disrespect to the citizens of Antarctica what are you saying they can't have sex that scene is really bizarre because it is

it's like the rehearsal yes the fake rehearsal where like they both know all the moves immediately right and her boobs kind of

you know are out of her shirt but she's still in her right yeah no he pulls her shirt down yeah yeah that's what I mean

yeah they don't just spontaneously decide to come out I mean that happens in this movie yes that's true well mean. Yeah. They don't just spontaneously decide to come out. I mean, that happens in this movie. Yes, that's true. True.

Well, some people have little remote controls to agenda dresses. That's an incredible dress. Yeah. And then they're sort of in this mid-grind position and they freeze. And that's when they have the period conversation, right? Yes. Where he's like, I don't believe you. And she's like, check.

But then she ends it. Which I think is a great response a power move right and then she ends it on this note of you don't get to fuck me until you love me and he's like I love you now and she's like no you don't so you're like okay this is where this plot line's going and then instead she's really mad that he's sleeping with Penny and you're like

why when I was 13 I just I think what I like when I was 13 when I watched that scene I was like is this how adults behave around each other I'm on my period

I don't believe you check like I'm like is this what we're gonna have to do when I'm when I'm growing up there are a lot of elements

is this a cress there are a lot of elements to this movie and how it depicts sex both from a writing standpoint and a directing standpoint. It feels like the movie is made by a five-year-old who's just heard rumors about sex.

It's two Barbie dolls mashing up against each other. It's a very Barbie doll movie. That's what I kept saying to Joanna. Because Elizabeth Berkley is an odd-looking person in a lot of ways. She's got these giant eyes. They're two different colors, which is sort of mesmerizing. She's got one brown eye and one green eye. I was trying to figure that out.

And she's pretty skinny. She's got a big mouth. And she's got this really, these big teeth. She's got this like big toothy smile. And they overlined her lips to make it look even bigger.

That's what I was getting to. They have put so much makeup on her face. Her face is always three shades paler than the rest of her body. Yes. And it makes her look

fucking crazy. I mean, that's very 90s. It is. It's unfortunate, but that's what it was. I'm not even really criticizing it because she's striking. Like, for sure. And I mean, I think that works in this movie's favor in a way where it's like people can't

stop looking at her because there's just a lot to look at. It's like, so even when she is stationary and not moving her face and not moving her body, you're still kind of like, wow, she's really dialed up right now. She's also really tall. Very tall. Very tall actress. And she also is achingly vulnerable. She is such an open emotional wound.

Even when she's playing really tough with her knives. Right. So you kind of can't stop staring at her because you're just like, what the fuck's going on? She's got tremors a little bit. She's got tremors. Yeah. So we should jump back into the plot, though, right? So we left off with her leaving jail and going to Cheetah's for the first time.

Yeah, that's right. We're 20 minutes into the movie. What, are you worried about something? Is that an issue? Yeah, I'm trying to keep us on track. Okay, so the next big scene is the lap dance. Ben has a doctor's appointment three days from now. He's worrying he's not going to make it in time.

The next big scene is the lap dance scene. Yes, right. Yes. Oh, boy. Yeah, so she gets to the oh i'm sorry no no go ahead she's right she's at cheetahs and crystal and zach arrive yeah and they're there they're at like a vip sort of table situation right and they demand a private dance well after she does a routine she does a routine she does a very pointed um pole dance yes she licks the pole she licks the pole which I think is one of the most infamous shots of that

because like, I just, my whole body was like, do not lick that pole. She beats Ryu. Handily, she beats Ryu. And like, yeah, she does a spinning leg kick.

No, the other thing is like, I would accept her licking the pole if the second she left the stage, we saw a team come in, sanitize the pole. She just chugs a whole handle of like, antiseptic vodka. Right, saw a team come in, sanitize the pole. She just chugs a whole handle of

antiseptic vodka. A couple guys come in and they're just like, instead, no, two naked women immediately walk onto the stage. That pole has been places to be. No, it's been places and she doesn't respect that pole. Different places. Different places, some might say. So they want a private dance. She sees them,

she doesn't want any peace. She doesn't want any peace. She's mad at Crystal for disrespecting her dancing which you know she's not and I'll be she's not a good stripper I'm gonna

I'm gonna say that she's not good at it there are strippers who are incredible and she sucks I mean it's her stripping routine is similar to a dancing routine

which is that rhythmic sort of like like she's sort of like a mind trapped in a box where she's kind of banging off the walls a lot. Yeah, a lot of chopping.

Chop heavy. She tasks out. Yeah, so she could be better but she doesn't do it. She does do this sort of upside down slide thing. She does a little bit of an upside down slide thing.

You know, I guess she does a couple of things where you're more like, right, that's what I... She has a bra under her bra. Sure. I kept on wondering watching this

like how much fucking physical training i mean it must have been incredibly complicated to shoot all this she talked about that too and she went on the dancing with the stars season and she was like she stopped dancing after this movie which is really sad because she was like she apparently was really horrified by she was really a big movie or something no no she was like she would love dancing and she just yeah and she the movie broke her heart so hard she stopped more so than like dancing but she was like now she would love dancing. Yeah. And she, the movie broke her heart so hard, she stopped. More so than like any action movie. And she's right on this count that she was like, now people take pole dance classes. Yes, of course.

It's totally different. It's become much more of like, it's appreciated for its athleticism. Totally different. Right. Yes. But yeah, so. I use that word a lot. But this is like a crazy Jean-Claude Van Damme level of physical dexterity and endurance.

It's not an easy part. No. So they have the private dance, which, as you say, is this sort of vicarious sex scene. Yes. It is her first fully nude scene in the film.

It's also all in one room? Yes, it's in the champagne room or whatever. Okay, yeah, yeah. Because there are other dances going on in the background. Yes, yes. And it also has the doorway in.

It's not a door, and it's like the guy... The little beads or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That chore also like has the doorway in. It's not a door. And it's like the guy. The little beads or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That choreographer comes and is like trying to get a free show sort of thing. Right, right, right. So she's like, oh, yeah. They say that Gina wants a lap dance for both of them.

Sorry, Crystal. She's trying to find a way out of it. Robert Davi. She's like, we don't do women. We don't do women. Only one on one. Only boys and girls. It's very heteronormative in there.

But Robert Davi's in like Mr. Krabs mode, and he hears money being turned down. Because she keeps calling the bluff. Right. She finally gets to 500 bucks. Which, I gotta say, seems low. She could have pushed that a lot. 2017 money. She offers 100 in the first place, and Nomi was right to be like, fuck you.

I don't know anything about going to a strip club. And I'm not trying to... Humble rank. I just don't know anything about going to a strip club. And I'm not trying to... Humble brag. I just don't. But even my CSI watching level of knowledge, it's definitely more than $100 to get a private show, right? I think they're trying to paint this strip club as one of the seedier ones. So I think that's probably about what she usually gets.

But then she's Crystal Connors and she could definitely... If she wants to be super super impressive just be like a grand that's also the thing like high roller people like that always want to overpay that's the whole point right

performatively yes to flaunt their weight so like and I love that she's the one doing it and not her flop boyfriend yes

I kind of love that his hair is so fucking flopsy in this movie it's fully over one eye like a Rider Strong Boy Meets World

flop I was gonna say it's like that villain from Captain Planet where you never saw the one half of her face yeah yeah yeah fucking flopsy in this movie. It's fully over one eye like a Rider Strong Boy Meets World flop. I was going to say it's like that villain from Captain Planet where you never saw the one half of her face. And then sometimes when it flipped up she had like acid scarring. Do you remember that? He's doing that. This is kind of a stealth Captain Planet movie. Yeah, totally.

Elizabeth Barkley is hot. Shut up. As Caroline posited, this is kind of a love scene between Nomi and Crystal. Because they're locking eyes. It's the only love scene that the two have together. Yes. Which is sort of annoying. She's like, yeah, because Crystal sits on the other side of the room on a table.

She's like, I'm not going to touch you. But the eye contact is very intense. Right. And she grinds on Kyle MacLachlan, Zach. Yeah. Who you might not be able to tell is kind of a creep he's got this hair that's like perfectly he's like the UK soul singer Gabrielle if I had to come up with an example I'd almost say

that villain from Captain Planet I would almost do a two minute chunk on this if I had to come up with a way to describe his hair okay cool you do. I'm going to show you Gabrielle. Okay, cool. Okay, yeah. You do that.

I'm going to Google that villain from Captain Planet. What's his name, that villain from Batman? It's a female. It makes me think though, his look, it's sort of like, remember when Garth Brooks

had an alternative sort of personality? Chris Gaines. Chris Gaines, yes. Okay, yeah. It's kind of like Chris Gaines. And he hosts Cedestinal. He's got like the hair

that kind of comes down to one side of his face. A Pete Wentz. Yeah, it's almost like a Pete Wentz. Oh, God. There's a Captain Planet villain kind of comes down to one side of his face. A Pete Wentz. Yeah, it's almost like a Pete Wentz. Oh, God, there's a Captain Planet villain. I'm trying to think of what her name is. I was trying to get you off this. Dr. Blight.

Dr. Blight. Oh, yeah. I mean, sure. You know, look, in history, there have been people who had their hair over one of their eyes. But then she's got creepy face underneath. Right. Well, I believe Gabrielle also had some sort of like eye condition, which is why she developed. Right.

But Kyle has no excuse. Zach has no excuse. Zach has no excuse. Anyway, she grinds on him till he jizzes in his pants. Right. David. David. You know, the Oscars give it a best picture or whatever.

And that's the moment. Sorry, Carolyn. Go ahead. No, I just, i grinds against him as such a mild way of describing what happens she is fully nude she's yeah he is fully clothed you're right she gets fully nude she can touch him he can't touch her right those are the rules those are the rules but it's like it's very aggressive dry humping yes um and when she's not locking eyes with um crystal she is fully i I mean, dry humping is even too mild.

It's like really aggressive, like a fish is dying flopping. That's her move. Look, I mean, yes. It's struggling for, yeah. Right, dolphin, beached dolphin kind of. But also moving at like a Usain Bolt speed. Like I don't understand how fast her muscles work in this.

I mean, how did she do this? It is impressive. But I just feel like, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like that would just hurt. I think it would hurt.

I think it would hurt everyone involved. In every sense of the word. There would definitely be some kind of like rug burn. A hundred percent. You know, because he's wearing

like slacks or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just don't understand how he even gets off in that situation. I guess there's friction. Well, yeah, yeah. But I just don't understand how he even gets off in that situation. I guess there's friction. There's a lot of friction. And then there is

this weird triangle dynamic that's going on, right? Where like Crystal's sort of involved and she's watching. And like Zach knows what's happening. Right.

He does. He's not new to his girlfriend. They have this rivalry. Yes. And Zach, to be clear, is the artistic director or whatever. The entertainment director.

The entertainment director of Goddess. Sure. So then Nomi gets to audition after this, gets artistic director or whatever. The entertainment director. Entertainment director of Goddess. Sure. So then Nomi gets to audition after this, gets to audition for Goddess. Because Crystal goes in and goes, hey, I saw this great audition yesterday. I got a reel. And then my favorite scene in the film happens. Really?

Your favorite scene in the film? Tony Moss, who is now my new favorite character in the movie. Okay. The one good performance now. Alan Rackins, I think is his name. He was in L.A. Law. He's the guy who... He's Tony Moss.

I've already forgotten. He's the gross guy who does the lineup. Oh, the lineup. I'm Tony Moss. I produced this show. Some of you may have probably heard that I'm a prick. I texted it to Ben. Go on, Ben.

You want to do it? All right. Hey, I'm Tony Moss. I produced this show. Some of you have probably heard that I'm a prick.. Go on, Ben. You want to do it? All right. Hey, I'm Tony Moss. I produce this show. Some of you have probably heard that I'm a prick, and I am a prick. I got one interest here, and that's the show. I don't care whether you live or die. I want to see you dance, and I want to see you smile.

I can't use you if you can't smile, and I can't use you if you can't show. I can't use you if you can't sell. That's a cold read. Okay. To jump to I don't care if you live or die on sentence two, three. That's where you end. Suddenly the stakes are insane. I know.

He's like, I'm a prick. I don't care if you live or die. I'd love it if you smiled. This is an audition. What are you talking about? Die. Can you spell MGM backwards? I bet you can't.

Right. Say it. MGM. I'm impressed. Okay. And then Vegas, baby. I think that line is hilarious. I do too.

I think pretty much every line is really, really funny. Right. And then there's the thing about the lady who had her nose fixed because that was the note. Right, right. Now it's your ears. Thanks, Tony. It looks a lot better.

It's always something. He lines the girls up. Hey, tennis ball, you better have a good wig collection. Right? Doesn't he say that he's Dharma's father on Dharma and Greg oh my god

he's like a two time Emmy winner he was in LA law for a million years he's just like a famous kind of like hard ass except I think in Dharma and Greg he's like a hippie right? well he's Greg's dad no he's Dharma's dad

so this is the ice scene this is the ice they do the ice bucket challenge but this is like Verhoeven this is the casting process in Hollywood you line these women up and you just like assail them verbally

you dismiss them for any imperfection and then he's like all right we're down to the tie the three of you show me your tits you know and they're like here are our tits and he's like he's like yeah i mean it's a topless show you gotta i mean like do we need to get the ice bucket you know like it's like every he finds a new level to go down every time the beneficiaries of the system are degraded and mocked. Like just for sport. It's a fucking blood sport. And like that's probably not far off. No. I don't know. You think in show

business there's some of this? There's no evidence to back that up. I hate the fucking world. I was going to say when you first introduced me you were like what do you write about? And I'd be like sexual assault. Yeah. I used to write about like movies and TV that I liked,

and then there was some sort of subtle shift six months ago. I wrote a TV review this week. It took me like two days because I was like, I forget how to do this. Oh, boy. It was so powerful and so depressing, but when the Weinstein story was unfolding and your tweets about having to update your article to raise the numbers or add names.

I'll tell you a fun journalism. Please. We made the mistake of being like, we should have a list of all the people who have accused him of something. And try to be complete and comprehensive. Because certainly there will be an end at some point, right? I don't even know how many there are now.

I want to say it's like at 90 or something crazy. He's getting into Cosby zone. I mean, he's past it. He's past it. Well, how many did Cosby have? 50? 60? I mean, it's all insane.

It's like when the LA Times published their thing, and then a day later, he said, we've had 220 additional women. We have 120, and then the next day, they got, yeah. But it's like we have learned in this,

and actually, it was funny because I'm, not funny, but one of the politics writers who had been writing about the Trump stuff after the tape and the people coming forward, she was like, we learned you don't put a number in the headline because you're going to change it. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, it's just going to change. So we never put numbers in the headline. Let's say. Yes. But she was right. We've never put a number in the headline since because it always changes. But this movie, I mean, this movie weirdly has more power now than it ever has.

You know? I know what you're saying. I feel like this is one movie that fully stares into the eye of Sauron that is the fucking systemic abuse. Every man in this is really awful.

Yes. There's a reason why i think like you know it wants i think part of this movie is like she is so all over the place because she has been trashed again and again by terrible men it just it does not one sliver of her life and every other sliver is also going to be like this or has been like this but also that this movie is entirely based around this like faustian bargain of like well you know you're gonna have to sell it sooner or later that is perpetuated by the men in power choosing to all

live up to that. Shall I quote Jacques Rivette the famous French director. Thank you I was going to pull this one up. And Celine Angelica Bodine You know this quote? No I don't. Famous contributor. No I'm ready. Get fucking ready. Cinema who said it is one of the great American films

very unpleasant it is about surviving in a world populated with assholes and that's verhoeven's philosophy i believe at one point he's dead now right this was close to his death after that initial quote i think he said it was the best american film the last 10 15 years something like that quentin tarantino said that is the only time in his life that he can remember holly remember Hollywood giving a full budget to an exploitation movie. Essentially was his kind of take on it. But I do agree with the brevet thing. You question how much of it's intentional.

You question how much it's well done. But it is Paul Verhoeven, which sort of helps you. But yes, go on. But I do find this movie to be like this horrible parable that's actually pretty spot on, not in terms of reflecting realistic human behavior, but representing the ecosystem. I mean, the problem is that, just thinking about it now, is that it's pretty spot on about these men and how they work and what they do because I think the people, it was written and directed by men who probably know those guys. But it's all over the fucking place with her because they don't understand her. Right. Yeah.

So if, like, the problem is that it could have been that if she were a character, but she's not. I agree with that. I agree with that. Here's one additional thing I would like to say. Please. That does not contradict that at all. Thank you. But it's another thing I think this movie.

Don't contradict me ever. Never will. Ever. White cheddar bagel twist it's a really good snack he's eaten a half of it because it's louder

than they baked it well today and it's making a lot of crunch they baked it well down at Dunkin' today they did they did a good bake

I'm sorry go ahead no the thing I was gonna say the other thing I think this movie does get very right is the

the question I've had people who are totally outside of this industry ask me for the last couple months as this whole story has been developing of just like but how does this fucking happen how does this get so bad why do all these women agree to meet up with these men how do these people stay on if they're in these positions of power and the thing is the thing that these guys do and i think showgirls represents that really well whatever ecosystem you're in right whatever ecosystem you're in right whatever industry you're in whatever scene you're in whatever city whatever theater you're in or that whatever they set up this sort of company line that there just is a price you have to pay to

enter the door yeah you know you're just gonna have to take some bullshit you might have to draw a line somewhere but you have to know that you're gonna get it in one way or another. Right. Whether it's degradation, whether it's like, you know, a killing of your spirit. I mean, it's baked into the expectations of like, if you want to be a star, then this is what you do. Like, that's it. And this movie even presents And if you don't want to be a star, that's fine. Then you walk away.

And it's essentially from the moment she gets into the van with Blake Shelton, it's like, if you even want to get to the city to have the chance to break into the industry. You gotta get through a creep. Right. Like, everything's a fucking risk. Everything's like, if you even want to get to the city to have the chance to break into the industry. You gotta get through a creep. Right. Like, everything's a fucking risk.

Everything's a game of Russian roulette. Right. Which is the climate that, like, the fucking entertainment industry has existed in forever. Right.

Where it's just like, well, I just hope that I, like, am able to, like, sneak through. Yeah, and that's why, like, at this point,

it's cool that people are getting fired, but you can't just fire a few people. It's like, all the people who are getting fired right now are at the top, which is fascinating and good and will set precedents and so on. But the problem is that there are people

who have been learning from them the whole time who are at all levels of the thing. Anything I've seen is not like a Matt Lauer. It's like someone way lower, but who learned from that. So, yeah. So that makes sense. People who are not known. Why does that person have power?

It's just because that's the way the system is. It's going to be, I think this is good, but I don't know, by the time this comes out, I don't know where we are. Well, hopefully there's just no men. This week was Lauer, that's why I used that example. Who knows who just came out? Yeah, at this point, Matt Lauer has already been sent into the

phantom zone. Shrek has already been outed by that point. The systemic abuse of Shrek. What was that? Oh, I have Skittles and I'm just getting blue ones. Do you like blue? Sure, give me blue ones. Okay, great.

What flavor Skittles are these though? They're purple ones. These are berry. These are berry Skittles. I really appreciate you taking that time. We needed a way to get out of this pothole. And Skittles was the right way.

So we've been going for 90 minutes and we're like 20 minutes into the movie still. I mean the good news is there's really not much plot.

This is the thing. She gets the job obviously. And there's like again I don't know what Verhoeven was talking about MGM musicals because there

are like three numbers in this movie but it's not like they're the centerpiece of the movie at any point. We see the volcano one like four times. And some point like i think there's one move that's like a like a she-hulk sort of thing and i just every time i kept it came back i lost it i was like i don't know what this is and if he really wanted to make an mgm musical he very easily could

have had singing in this film sure you know like he pointedly didn't do that that's burlesque smooth she's a singer tries to sprinkle in there so then there's the volcano number and then there's like a dystopian motorcycle gang rape number right that's what that is oh you've set up David's face

he's so uncomfortable no I'm not uncomfortable it's just it's depressing you've set up the infighting with some of the other dancers. Oh yeah, there's two dancers who are at each other's throats the whole time. There's that one dancer who is always mad. There's an angry black dancer.

She is very angry. Very angry. She's like, if Nomi she makes Nomi look like the chillest person in the world. Yeah. She makes Nomi look like the queen of vaporwave. Okay. I did that for Ben. Ben, I just know

you're having a tough episode. I wanted to give you something. I appreciate that. Ben, you like this movie though, right? You were into it. He did like this movie for a while. I don't like this movie.

No! And Molly liked it, right? You were telling me Molly dug it. Molly liked it, but I didn't like it. There's a whole scene with Jack McGee

and a bunch of monkeys. Oh, yeah. An early brunette jack mcgee yeah jack mcgee looking good like he's not a hair under 55 i love jack mcgee that man is incredible that man is like a piece of coal i would see i don't know him but just hearing his name i'm like yeah that makes sense i would love jack mcgee yeah uh he's he is like uh his best role buster in the fighter yes his best role is in The Fighter where he plays the 4'10 man that is married to Melissa Leo. Melissa Leo just sort of like chips off another piece of his soul every day.

I would pay such good money to see Jack McGee's kindergarten class photo. Here it is. Right here. See him look exactly the same. Oh, I can see it. He has like a yo-yo. He was on Rescue Me for many years. He, I can see it. He has like a yo-yo. He was on a Rescue Me for many years. He's a great grump.

He's an all-time grump who I believe was born in the age of 45. And in this one, he has like a brigade of monkeys. Yeah, there's a whole scene with monkeys where you're kind of like, if I was looking to maybe shave a few minutes, this is what I might. Are they in the same show? I think they're in an attached show. Because I think the show is kind of like, you sit down and there's of like because i don't see where they fit into the like topless motorcycle review that's the thing it's like there's a review so it's like some monkey shit or like elephants like there's

some an animal act and then it's like there's some monkey shit also some monkey oh yes there is oh you know it's probably like a bunch of bullshit that people can do in between you're eating a steak dinner right exactly with your date or whatever. And then there's showgirls, and then there's some vaudeville maybe, or a comedian. I don't know. Also, most of these big casino resorts

have several theaters. Yes. So within each theater, there's your own review. How you doing? Oh, I was just checking my notes. Oh, good. Are we doing well so far? Oh, no.

I stopped taking notes halfway through the movie, and we're still in my notes. Cool. Oh, I was just checking my notes. Oh, good. Are we doing well so far? Oh, no. I stopped taking notes halfway through the movie and we're still in my notes. Cool. Oh, Jesus. It's a five-parter, Ben. I'm sorry. It's a five-parter. God damn it. So then there's the boat trade show.

Because this is where like nobody kind of turns on Crystal. Well, it's like, yeah, Crystal volunteers her for this boat trade show. And Molly's like, don't do it. Don't do it. Right. Don't do it. Which I feel like even at this point in mainstream culture, boat trade show was known as a, like, no good, very bad, don't do it. Right. But she gets offered a thousand bucks, which is twice what Crystal paid for her. Right.

Yes. With cheapskate. It's insane. Yeah, but she goes to the boat show and somehow has no idea what's about to happen. Wow. Blame her. Why don't you? Wow.

Wow. I'm not blaming her. Wow. I mean, to be fair, Nomi rarely seems to have much idea of what's about to happen. blame her why don't you wow wow i'm not blaming her wow i mean to be fair nomi rarely seems to have much idea of what's about to happen no but also like having you're right i mean like having her best friend be like i've been here a while it doesn't go well yeah don't do this like shut up yeah right different places yeah she goes to the boat show she gets propositioned by what i who is he he's like one of the backers of the show. Right. Who was at the earlier strip club, right?

Sure. Yeah, like scoping out town. Maybe he's like a town scout or something. Right. Can I touch you or whatever? And he's like there with like a guy from Beijing. Right, right. He's got the businessman in from out of town.

Right. He wants to show him a good time. Right. Show him a good time. Why don't you put on a Safdie brother film? You know what I'm saying? If you want to show an out of town businessman a good time. Right. Show him a good time. Why don't you put on a Safdie brother film? You know what I'm saying? If you want to show an out-of-town businessman

a good time, maybe show him a Safdie brother film. Maybe show them Heaven Knows Water. Caroline is just looking at Griffin with disdain. Maybe show him...

I just want him to keep going. Daddy Longlegs, maybe? White Shedder Bagel Twist. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I've made so many mistakes in my life. I've made so many mistakes.

All right, so we're back at the theater. My point is that after the boat show, it's like she's like, I will now destroy Crystal. Yeah. It's this very sudden turn. And they do the show again. She's glaring at Crystal during the show, and then she does something a little wrong,

and someone's like, oh, we're going to like, is this when they set her up to be like, oh, you have to come back in at noon tomorrow to work on this turn? They definitely need her to work on a turn. Yeah. Or something. Has the monkey shit already happened? She's all pelvic thrust. All the backstage stuff kind of blends together. But basically, this is when she seduces Kyle MacLachlan.

Yeah. Was that before Crystal takes her on like basically a date it's I think it's after isn't it I don't remember

because I thought she came back from the boat show she's upset she talks to Kyle MacLachlan oh yeah and he's like oh that's right

and he's like oh that's actually a really good moment to what Griffin was talking about where he's like you know he's like

oh I'll take care of this and like yells at the guy and she's like oh you're so sweet you did this for me and the second she walks away he calls him back and is like get back here, oh, I'll take care of this and like yells at the guy and she's like, oh, you're so sweet. You did this for me and the second she walks away, he calls him back and is like,

get back here, fuckhead. Like, I don't care. Do what you want. Yeah. That actually is, that was one of the good moments where you're like, yeah, that makes sense.

That's an honest portrayal of what men are really like. Yes, all of you. Yes. Thank you. They have their lunch date. Caroline looked right at me when you said that.

Hashtag all men. They have their lunch date where they talk about breasts and then go back to work on the turn. Okay, she's like, I like looking at nice tits I always have. It's like,

it's the reverse I've had a pussy problem. I like having nice tits. No, is it having? I thought it was looking at. Well, no, but Nomi's reply is I like having nice tits.

Oh, right. Isn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sexy banter. And it's when Gina Gershon is wearing what I can only describe

as a Zorro hat. Yeah, well, so she starts embodying this like really. She looks amazing. She looks amazing. She's doing like this butch cowboy thing. It's so good. It's so good. And she's just sitting at one of the tables and just like watching her dance around.

She's just got her like arm around a chair. She's drinking some champagne. She's looking down the door. And then basically calls her over and says, what's it like to have nice tits? Which is, let's be clear, that's an HR issue. She should go back to that lady she told her social security number to, who is like the normal HR lady.

She's her superior at work. But it's also like, I mean, just speaking to what Ben was saying, like, I don't know, 10 years ago. No, me saying that's why I like having nice tits is when Joanna was like, I'm going to bed.

But it's like every other scene they have together. Also, I'm moving out. Also, we're done. Sorry, say what you're saying. No, no, no. But I mean, I'm going to bed. But it's like every other scene they have together. Also, I'm moving out. Also, we're done. Sorry, say what you're saying. No, no, no. But I mean, I think Ben was touching on it earlier is that like every other scene, like in one scene they're flirting

and it's just like super like they're into it. And then the other scene, she's like, I fucking hate you. You don't get anything. Right. It's very teenage relationship-y, which is fine, I guess. That's kind of a nice way to look at it.

Like that's the best read you could have on it. That made me a little happy. They bond over both eating dog food. Oh, yes, that's right. That is a dark scene. That is what you were talking about. She just says, what do women talk about? Dog food?

All I talk about with my friends. It literally is like- Compliment each other's tits and talk about eating dog food. We all do it. Did you not do that? That's crazy. Hold on, I think I got it. Dog food. She says, I used to about eating dog food. We all do it. Did you not do that? Hold on, I think I got it. She says,

I used to love eating dog food or whatever. And you're just like, it's unremarked upon. Well, no, no, no. Cause yeah.

Cause Gina says it first and you're like, that's weird. And then Naomi's like me too. And you're like, that's weirder. We forgot to mention Ben miming, doing a line of Coke off the soundboard just reminded me. The first 45 minutes of Gina Gershon's performance she's doing a bump of coke every 5 seconds

and then just stops. Out of her pinky nail. But then Nomi starts doing the coke. Nomi refuses all coke for the first half of the movie and then she starts doing coke. Well, she gets high when she fucks Kyle MacLachlan. I mean, she'd have to. Well, something's in her system when she's in the pool.

I mean, you know. This might come as a surprise. I didn't like that sex scene. Oh no, you didn't like it? Normally I like wet stuff, but that shit sucks, dude. That sucks. It's wet on wet. Pool and like waterfall. This is such a screamy episode.

And there's the... I thought you were going to say something else. What did you think he was going to say? I thought he was going to talk about a bottle of Poland Spring. I don't want to- I don't know. I give up. I give up. Listen, the fluorescent light, the palm trees behind the pool-

Are we there yet? Can we talk about that? We're there. Great. That shit is vaporwave. One. And cool as fuck. Okay.

I said the same thing. I was like, this is a great pool. I like it. It's not trashy at all. It's good. It's a great move. It's good. It's got dolphins, water's coming out of their mouths. What's not to like? A waterfall that's timed so it only turns on and off every once in a while. Oh, that's true. Yeah. That's cool. You know that

hacky thing where like a kid walks in? I meant it's lit up but it's also lit. It's lit. That hacky thing where like a kid walks in and their parents having sex and thinks that they're fighting. The pool sex scene is like someone adapted that kid's description of sex.

Like why are you being so mean to each other? This is a great episode. Why are you hurting mommy? But why are you hurting daddy? Why are you hurting mommy? I like how this episode's gone. There is kind of...

Caroline, you're a great guest. Oh, thank you so much. It's all Skittles. It's all Barry Skittles. White cheddar bagel twist. Twist. Twist. I know that's a compliment coming from you, so I'll take it.

There is a moment before the floppy sex where it looks like she's kind of trying to give him an underwater blowjob. Yeah. Not easy. No. No. Nay, impossible. Bodies are buoyant. I don't understand how that happens.

Also, they require oxygen. They do. I think this is when I started clutching at my face and just never stopped until the end of the movie. The sex scene is insane. I hate it. It's one of those things where people are like... It makes me very upset.

One of those things where people are... And I'm glad Joanna did not watch that scene because I think she might have literally dumped me. Because I tried to set up with like, well, you know, it's this camp classic and it's been reevaluated by Jacques Rivette and she's like, I don't care. You used her up in the wrong place.

I quoted Jacques Rivette at her. She was not interested. Joanna, you know how you love Out2? What if I told you? Sorry. I don't even know what else there is to say. There's more to say about it. I can't imagine how,

because there's this quote from Kyle MacLachlan on the wiki. There are a bunch of things from him where he's like, I had no idea this is what the movie was while we were making it. I saw it at the premiere. And when he saw it at the premiere, he was like gobsmacked by how horrible it was. And it's like the sinking feeling.

For sure. I looked at a bunch of people's IMDb's and there's like at least a cushion. Gina bounces from this which she's wonderful in to Bound which she's even better in. She stays in the sort of exploitation movie

zone. That's a smart way to play it. Then you're really good in those and then you can move out of those. But like Kyle MacLachlan. He had a hard time. He stops. His next major role is Claudius in the Almeida Hamlet. Yeah. He can only play creepy from here on out.

Like he's. Yeah. Well, and then he kind of reclaims it with sex in the city. I was going to say, then he gets sex in the city. And he's like nice creepy. Right. He does like a really earnest thing. And then at some point it takes a turn.

Would you like to measure my John Thomas? Thank you for the eye contact as you quoted that. As a Charlotte. I hated that, David. Speaking as a Charlotte. Oh, you are a Charlotte. I obviously really liked. But when I was a kid, I watched Sex and the City like when it was on TV.

It's probably similar to whenever I watched Showgirls. Thinking like, hey, hey, hey. This is it? No, no, no. Right there in the title. And I loved Kyle MacLachlan because I had seen him in Twin Peaks, which my father was obsessed with. So I had watched old Twin Peaks, not all of them or something.

So I was always very locked into Kyle MacLachlan at a younger age. He is a creepy person in Sex and the City. Well, it's weird because I think he's very locked into Kyle MacLachlan at a younger age. Yeah. He is a creepy person in Sex and the City. Well, it's weird because I think he's not supposed to be at first. Not at first. But he's always got that

a little bit. I mean, that movie is I don't think that's what the script was asking for at first. Well, at first he's supposed to be charming. And then they're like

and he's also he's got an umbilical cord attached to his mom. Right. And then he becomes Because I think the arc in Sex and the City the idea is like

finally Charlotte gets the man she wants he's rich he's preppy he's like really attentive but he's like the guy who has like the giant house and then it's like

a cask of a Montiato situation you like open the floor and there's just like a hole I remember a bunch of dead showgirls I took Romley to see Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants 2 where he essentially

reprises this character as the director of a school play. Oh, no. I've never seen Sisterhood 2. Which sister has to be in the school play, but they do like a 42nd Street thing where she has a smaller part and the main girl gets sick

and she takes over. Is it Tamblyn? Because she's always the one who's like stuck at home being bored, but that's in the first one. I think it's not Tamblyn. I think it's not Tamblyn. I can't remember.

It might be Blake L lively but but anyway he plays a creepy uh director in that and when he came on screen i started laughing hysterically and romley was like what's going on and i was just like he used to be a heartthrob but now he's a heartthrob again i know he got it back i know good for him but he had to like go through some shit to get there. He did. He also just had to go to TV I think. It was like a lot. Okay let's get back on track. You didn't enjoy that? No I liked it. I liked it but. But Ben you were making

the stretch for time. No I was not. I was not doing that. So after this wonderful sex scene with this powerful connection he gets her the job. We're in the last 20 minutes where everything happens. That's the thing. He gets her the job. We're in the last 20 minutes where everything happens. That's the thing. He gets her the job as Crystal's understudy.

She threatens legal action so she's taken off this job. She got rejected and also realizes that she's sleeping with Zach and not her. Zach has that line where it's like, are you mad that I fucked her or are you mad that I fucked her before you got to her? That I beat you to it. Someone's broken their knee on monkey shit.

Someone's broken their knee, then Nomi pushes Crystal down the stairs, and then another person covers for her and in response wants to be the understudy, kind of being like, you know, tip the tab. The person who also, right, because like, Nomi sees her take out the other girl and doesn't say anything, and the girl doesn't return,

blah, blah, blah. But also, at one point, she randomly goes to see Plummer's dance show, which he put on at the cheetah though with the cheetah audience is not into it no because they're like we want to see a strip routine how do you describe this routine i mean post-modern deconstruction wearing the black tights and doing like the you know sexy new york like jazz club music or something and then very quickly it turns out they're doing like the, you know, sexy New York like jazz club music or something. And then very quickly it turns out they're engaged because Penny got pregnant and it almost seems for half a millisecond that he's gotten decent.

No. And then he just immediately says a bunch of awful things. Yeah, what does he say to her? He's like, get a drink, bitch. And it's just like weird. It's like so aggressive. Yeah, well, you know how I joke.

No, we don't know how you joke. I'm getting married now. And she's basically like, happy for you, and then that's the last of him. And he's gonna go work for his mom and get hours at her grocery store, right? Yeah, that's actually really depressing, too, where he's like, I knocked this girl up and I'm gonna work at a grocery store because her mom owns one. It's like a whole little story in one second.

Yeah, they have a whole other movie going on. Like, he and Penny are in a totally other movie. Yes. Called and Penny are in a totally other movie. They are. Called Showgirls 2, Penny's from Heaven. And then there's the Molly gets to meet

at Nomi's big coming out party, essentially. At Nomi's opening night celebration. This guy, Andrew Carver, who is played by a total rando. He's like a pop star earlier in the film they've seen a poster

of him he's got a Fabio thing going some sort of Vegas star Molly's got a big crush on him somewhat inexplicably I gotta say

and then there's like yeah incredibly inexplicably because she and Nomi were in a relationship in their trailer this is true I mean it's

it makes no sense when she's like oh my god, this guy. And you're like, no one's buying this. I love him. And you're like, no.

Also, the chips are her blender too, right? The like potato chip stuff in the trailer where she's always like, did you hide the chips? I'm like,

what is this? That's a good, we haven't talked about blenders enough. We need to talk about them. Alex Ross Perry, previous guest. It's Enemy of the State where Will Smith's character

is obsessed with his blender and it has no plot purpose. So it's like weird character details that can lift right out of the screen. Yeah. They try to do like a, you know, all the other dancers

eat brown rice and vegetables, but she likes chips and burgers. The fucking brown rice and vegetable lines 800 times. What's her name? God, the choreographer. Gay.

Oh, is it? Yeah, that's her name. Oh, sure. It is. Look, she fits with the rest of the movie. Gay Carpenter, played choreographer. Gay? Gay. Oh, is it? Yeah, that's her name. Oh, sure. It is. Look, she fits with the rest of the movie. Gay Carpenter, played by Michelle Johnston. Gay Carpenter. Okay, so this awful thing that happens in the movie.

Yeah, I mean, this is one of the most egregious, like, absolutely unnecessary. I agree with that. Rape scenes. I agree with that. There are. A hundred percent, especially for how late into the movie we are

and how much else the film has going on. Right. So like she, yeah, they get introduced and he's like, and like takes her to a room and she's getting gang raped by him

and the bodyguards while Nomi's having this like storybook little dance. So the one piece of credit I'll give to Verhoeven or Esther House or both or whoever,

and it's probably not for good reasons, but I do think it's incisive that she is into him goes back to the room and they still assault her which is this thing that keeps on coming out in these stories that we're reading where it's like these guys are addicted to the power of the thing more than it has nothing to do with like she was gonna have sex she was like into it right right well i mean that's true like the level of depravity sure and you know there's something to the fact that she literally they literally throw her out into the middle of the party

bloodied with no fear of repercussion and of course right Zach's reaction is we're gonna pay her off and this is never gonna be spoken of right

all that unfortunately tracks unfortunately realistic does track right but it's just it's so late in the movie the thing about it is

it's coming it's all in like five minutes all of a sudden Molly hasn't been in this movie. The thing about it is it's coming, it's all in like five minutes, all of a sudden. Molly hasn't been in this movie for like half an hour. And we love Molly! We love Molly! Don't do this to Molly! And that's why they do it to Molly.

I know. It does feel like Esther House is just sort of like... Oh, we have this person. She could be raped, though. She could be the one. Well, that's certainly an issue. But it's also where he's like, there needs to be an ending that communicates that this world is bad.

And it's like, we know it's bad. Or like, we need to have a moment where Nomi fights back. Right, because of course, Nomi's low point is pushing Crystal

down the stairs. And I guess here is where she has this shred of like, oh, right. Hey, Esther House, I'm jumping through a time machine here to give you advice.

If you want an ending to show that this world is bad, take any scene that has previously existed in this movie, copy paste it and play it again at the end. That's your ending. Like they didn't need it. No.

They didn't need it the way it was filmed. It's like, it's so upsetting. Andrew Kramer's got like his tongue out like a lizard. Like it's so awful. Yeah. Yeah. Every fucking detail. Yeah.

It's just really, I think there's, I mean, there's a lot of stuff in here that's awful for the sake of being awful. Yes. And this is, and I feel like it actually kind of, it makes total sense that at one point

it is built to this because that's like the most obvious example of something being terrible. Which like this either feels. Including a bad thing just to be like this bad thing happened.

Right, but it's like one thing if this is at the beginning of the movie, then you know what movie you're watching. Right, and I mean.

Like that's clearly the die they're trying to cast, but here it's now just like, okay, we have 10 minutes to go, so what's going to happen? So you have a conversation with Con McGlaughlin. Sorry, I don't mean to be yawning.

They go to the hospital. She has a conversation with Con McGlaughlin. She's like, where are the police? Why aren't they here? And he's like, they're not coming. They're not coming. I'm dealing with this.

That's not how this works. He's not getting in any trouble. You're a star now. We've already announced you at a press conference with Chip, what's his name? Smith? Yeah, Chip Smith, what's his name? Smith? Yeah, Chip Smith, right.

And then he throws on her that he knows all her information. Her name is what? Pollyanna Costello. Right, because it's a Pollyanna. Very subtle. She's a Pollyanna. She was a runaway and a prostitute.

Her father murdered her mother and then killed herself. She's basically Sawyer from Lost. She's a Pollyanna. Yeah. That she was a runaway and a prostitute. Her father murdered her mother and then killed herself. She's basically Sawyer from Lost. She's every single thing. Her parents are dead. She was in foster homes. She had a crack cocaine problem. She's solicited. Yeah.

Been arrested for prostitution, for drug possession, assault with a deadly weapon. Her response is, I'm going to get my switchblade and go beat the shit out of that guy. That's after he tells her that she's a fantastic fuck. Yeah. And also asks how much she charged. Well, that's the thing, right? So he's like, oh, you got low self-esteem, baby. I will say that spit was well done.

Really well done. Because there's a moment when she starts smiling and you're like, what is this? And then she just spits like a lot of spit. A lot of spit. I mean, it's obviously just water. One of the things. It's good.

But it's good. And then she goes and kicks the shit out of that guy kicks the shit out of that guy goes and sees Molly and is like don't worry I kicked the shit

out of that guy Molly's like okay Molly is so out of it right then goes to see Crystal and says sorry I put you

down the stairs and has like her Casablanca ending you know right so then she does this for her friend who's so beaten up

that she's in the hospital strangers in the night if only we could be up and then leaves her leaves her forever goes to see Crystal in the same hospital all the victims the crystal ending is the Casablanca

and Crystal's like you know what kid I pushed someone down the stairs once let's make out so they do yes they do and then she goes back hitchhiking who picks her up the same fuckhead and she takes up the knife again yeah and she says i want my fucking suitcase right that i believe is the last line of the movie i think so uh it's on a par with i think the last line is like him just like fucking screaming and she we roll by her billboard

and then the camera goddess hands up, and what do we see now? The Hollywood sign. Los Angeles. Which to me is like the end of Friday the 13th when Jason comes up out of the water. Right, or it's like the end of The Departed where the rat runs across the room and we're like, we get it. It's not going to be better. Oh, no, that's the thing. See, I don't think it's like The Departed rap where it's like, did you get what we were talking about i think it's like friday the 13th where it's like it's

only gonna get worse she's not safe it's gonna get it's like the end of the post yeah yes yes we now call it watergate i just when are they gonna announce that fucking sequel because it's it's so unresolved post two hardly post post two hyper posts come on okay good call of course yes i forgot that's our bit So that's the movie Called Showgirls And it lost A lot of money theatrically

We're gonna talk about it It was slammed by critics And then became One of the biggest Home video films of all time Yeah I mean yeah We still

We both ordered it I haven't I haven't bought a DVD in years Well I order most projects I mean I know you have But yes yeah yeah yeah But I hadn't No no it's fair

It's fascinating It's a classic Like midnight movie That then becomes right I it's fair and like it's a classic like midnight movie that then becomes right and like I feel like it was famous at the video rental store because it was this

NC-17 movie had this very provocative poster which is all black and then her leg you know that's a good poster I've seen that poster recreated many a time

for drag shows and that's always good but then also like all the covers of the home video release and this is a movie that's been re-released like a thousand different times have gotten gaudier and gaudier. But then also like all the covers of the home video releases and this is a movie that's been re-released like a thousand different times

have gotten gaudier and gaudier and they've also like they were one of the first. They've embraced it. Yes. And they have like the special features

with like the drinking games. I remember they packaged it with shot glasses at one point. Oh man. Like a peak DVD when you could like make anything

into like a fifth release of something. Yeah. But there's like all the sort of knowing self-aware like we're Rocky Horror now reframing by the company itself. Yes. But there's like all the sort of knowing self-aware like we're Rocky Horror now reframing by the

company itself. Yes. Which is pretty fascinating. Well because at some point I guess you have to. Yeah. Elizabeth Berkley was dropped by her agent and

other agents refused to even take her calls. Jesus Christ. It's like there was like assaulting of the earth. I mean like and the other thing that's sort of sad is like this movie

didn't ruin Verhoeven's career. He gets to make Starship Troopers two years later which is an incredibly expensive movie. Two years later? Yeah. Starship Troopers is 97. Right away he gets to make Starship Troopers. And there is the famous story of him

making a VFX presentation of a cow being ripped apart by a giant bug and then he walks out and goes please let me make this movie. That is how he got Starship Troopers funded. But also your Verhoeven impression is uh give me the money quickly and then i'll tell you what the movie is about right right where they're like paul we had this idea for uh like a movie about an invisible man oh cool

just hand me that money very quickly we want to well wait a second it's like you know like a you know like an updated sure just hand me the money. We were thinking like a budget of like 40 million. Yes, hand me the money. Okay, all right. Here you go. It's about rape. You can't stop me. And he runs away with the briefcase. I have the money now. You want me to make your bug movie? Hand me the money quickly.

Yes, yes, yes. $100 million? Yes, yes. It's about Nazis. Never loan Paul Verhoeven a dollar. If he tells you he needs a dollar for coffee not your coffee he's not coming back with french roast I'll tell you that much

so Caroline you watch this with your pals what were their final reviews of this movie I mean I think we all loved it until it went on too long. It does go on a bit. Yeah. Kind of good to watch it in two stages almost. Take a little break. Yeah, and actually neither of them had seen the full version.

They had both seen it a bunch on cable. Right. Which is super chopped up. Right. So they were actually like, so the scene where she goes and kicks his ass, like that one is super chopped up because she's topless half the time with, we did not mention, very red nipples that look like pepperoni and don't understand why they happened very strange moment they're made up nipples i just don't think the show understands nipples just like in a lot of

ways yeah it's almost like he wrote the script so that he could get notes of people correcting him yeah and learn the answers to the questions like he's a boy who doesn't understand what girls are like. So he's like, how cold do they have to be? Ice cold? Right. Should I have a bucket of ice on hand? For girls on her period, do you check?

Right. Do you believe her or do you have to check? Do they put lipstick on their nipples or not? How do you know she's enjoying it if she's not fully

having a seizure? Right. So we're going to play the box office game. Right. And I'm going to sit back and watch it happen. Okay. This movie came out

September 22nd 1995 never forget great it was the it was rated NC-17 it was released wide

ish 1300 1400 screen pretty wide pretty wide Ken's not happy no it's fine it's fucking fine

keep going the movie cost 45 million dollars to make. Wow. Which is a lot in 95. Yep. It grossed 20 domestic. Okay.

It's gross. It's made a profit. Yes. Yeah. They said it made over $100 million on VHS alone. What number do you think it opens to? Seven. Two.

What? Wow. It opened okay. I mean, not great. $8 million. Okay. For a 45 budget, that's not great. So it's pretty loaded.

Sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, its multiplier wasn't good. No. It opens number two. Number one is also a new movie, a pretty definitive crime film of the 90s. Cop movie? Yeah.

Detectives. Detectives. Detectives. Two of them. Two of them. On the trail of a killer. Seven? Seven. David Fincher is seven.

His second film. What's in the box? Different things. Okay, number 12. Different sins. There we go number two sorry we got it

number two showgirls number one is seven number three is another camp classic of the mid 90s about drag queens

it's Wong Fu thanks for everything yes which has made 24 million dollars in three weeks it's gonna make 36 it makes more than

showgirls yeah that's pretty good not a bad movie kind of laps it Swayze Snipes has made $24 million in three weeks. It's going to make 36. It makes more than Showgirls. Yeah. That's pretty good. Not a bad movie. And a lap set. Swayze, Snipes, and Luigi Mario himself

down like a zombie. When he was at the Gotham, someone, and he was like presenting some award and he was, you know, whatever.

Did you get to meet Johnny Legs? I didn't, but someone was like, oh boy, this is long or something. And I was like, he's Luigi, show show some respect did they show any respect for that some people did i can't remember what he was presenting it doesn't matter and he had a bold

take on that character too which was what if luigi only talked out of one corner of his mouth so what if luigi were waluigi mario it is pretty amazing that they were like, these two characters, they're video game sprites. They're famous for one thing, being Italian-American. Let's cast a British guy and a Puerto Rican guy. Like, what? Like, how? And yet, they're both good casting. You know what I mean?

What's the other thing they're famous for? They're brothers. Let's cast a 21-year-old and a 47-year-old. Like, Leguizamo was so young in that movie. I'm sorry. He's not Puerto Rican. I knew this. Oh, no.

He is a Puerto Rican and Colombian descent. Sorry. Good stuff. Anyway. I just wanted to triple check. He's a New Yorker. Sorry. Carry on.

There was at least 15 years between the two of them in that movie, right? That shows. Oh, I mean, there has to be. I mean, Hoskins was born in 1942 okay and leguizamo was born in 1964 so yeah there is a 22 years between them you were almost exact brothers uh brothers okay number four i believe that's like the second time very quickly we've invoked Super Mario Brothers on this podcast. Yeah, I can't remember. Number four is a famous teacher movie.

Big hit of 1995. Dangerous Minds. This was a big weekend. You seen Dangerous Minds? No. Michelle Pfeiffer? Oh, well I should. That immediately got me interested. It's not a great movie. I just watch TV comedies. I don't really watch movies.

That's your description of this recording session. Yep. Number five. He's getting them fast, Ben. I know. Number five is another cop movie. It's sort of a gritty New York City crime drama

from a very famous director. I mean, there's one major cop. It's about a cop and a kid. movie it's like sort of a gritty new york city crime drama how many very famous director i mean there's one major cop it's about a cop and like a kid like a sort of teenage boy no it's a drama it's a cop and a teenage boy uh big star who's the big star oh no is the cop a big star medium star a famous actor not exactly like a box office draw And is the kid famous? He becomes more famous But not huge

Like a You know Sort of like Pretty well known actor It's directed by a pretty famous director Who makes a lot of movies So there's a lot of medium famous people Yeah

Yeah It wasn't a huge hit Made 13 million domestic Based on a book When was this directed I kind of like this movie we're in it we're in it

the 90s he's still going though he's he pumps them out the 90s especially the early 90s is when he's famous ladies early 90s

there's a Netflix show out right now based on one of his movies there's a Netflix is it a Spike Lee film Spike Lee film and it's a cop show out right now based on one of his movies. There's a Netflix? Is it a Spike Lee film? Spike Lee film. And it's a cop and a kid? Yeah, a teenager.

1995. Is this Clockers? Clockers. I've never known what Clockers is about. Oh, really? It's like a murder mystery. So you just picked the one that you didn't know? Kind of.

But it's about Harvey Keitel's the cop and Mackay Pfeiffer is like the kid who wins. He gets more famous. Yeah, he does. But he's not like a superstar. He's like a famous actor. Really good, you know. John Turturro's in that movie. Shockingly, John Turturro was in another Spike Lee movie.

I know you can't believe it. Can't believe that. Who else is in that movie? Delroy Lindo. But it was, yeah, it was Mech High Fifer's debut. Okay. Isaiah Washington, Keith David. Aren't they now threatening

to make a TV show out of that as well? Threatening? Probably. It's a Richard Price novel. They're threatening Netflix at knife point to make a series

of plotters. No one has to threaten Netflix at knife point to make anything. That's what they tell them. So we've also got Unstrung Heroes in the top 10.

Remember that? Nope. Do you know who directed that movie? Diane Keaton. What movie are you talking about? Un that? Nope. Do you know who directed that movie? Diane Keaton. What movie are you talking about? Unstrung Heroes. Okay.

I shouldn't have asked. Great movie. Starring Andy McDowell and who? John Turturro. I'm not kidding. Got Usual Suspects hanging around. Hackers. I bet you like that movie.

I've never seen Hackers. Is Unusual Suspect unusual suspects gonna have to change their uh they're like uh credits oh because kevin spacey was in it no there's kevin spacey oh we should mention that yeah that's really good our fans are we made a joke about uh credit billing with butt before an actor's name instead And there was a whole Reddit thread that came up on the subreddit for our podcast debating what the proper use of butt would be.

And what they came to is actors who have now been outed as horrible monsters. You have to sort of apologize. Gabriel Byrne, Benicio Del Toro, butt Kevin Spacey. Butt Kevin Spacey. No, that's perfect. You got Babe.

Uh-huh. A good movie made by good people. Starring a good pig. I just want something to be nice in this world. That'll do, Griffin. But Babe. And then right behind it, you got Braveheart, baby. That's right.

Back to Darkness. But Mel Gibson. Directed by a butt. And starring. Yes starring you got Mortal Kombat okay Batman Forever and this is also

this is also the weekend that Empire Records debuted in 87 theaters that I've seen classic I'm starting to feel like Ben now we're done

I'm feeling baked Ben just end it even worse than my my white cheddar bagel twist. I can't tell if you're kidding or not. We all gotta go to different places. Because I know you're doing your bit as well. It's long.

You just handed me a napkin. Oh, there wasn't something written on it? Is there something written on it? Is it for me? Hold on. It's a note for Caroline. This might be optionable. It says, do you want to keep doing this podcast

check yes or no how do you feel about this I think you got something here yeah what's about to happen just congratulations on being on the ground floor of this this 10 million dollar

idea Ben just do I read it? I think you do. Yeah, read it, read it. Here we go. On a napkin. Through your white cheddar bagel twist, which you're eating as we speak. He is.

I'm done. Ben has written. Can't wait to make this movie. You can do it, my friend. And we're ending the episode on this. On this. What if the hangover but young called the buzz? The buzzed.

Alright, so please remember to rate, view, and subscribe. Thank you all for listening. Go to blankies.red for some real nerdy shit. Thank you so much. Thanks to Angela Gouda

for her social media. Oh, well, thank you. Give me a snap. Oh, I'm so sorry. Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for her artwork, Lane Montgomery for her theme song. Caroline Franke,

thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you, and I'm so sorry never apologize and as always I really hope Donald Trump isn't still the president

by the time this episode comes out just say that every week