Blank Check with Griffin & David - Sleepless in Seattle with Katey Rich

Episode Date: June 21, 2020

Only Nora Ephron could make a rom-com where the leads interact for 2 minutes an instant classic. The BC crew makes a Tom and Meg inspired long distance call to Katey Rich (Vanity Fair) for Ephron's sophomore hit, Sleepless in Seattle (1993). We get into how rom-coms have risen and fallen, the lure of cool boat houses, and the enigma that is Chet Hanks.  For the month of June we will be spotlighting groups dedicated to and run by Black trans and non-binary people who need our help. This week's organization is: The OKRA Project

Hey, folks, before you listen to today's episode, we want to take a brief moment to talk about the Okra Project. The Okra Project is a 100 percent grassroots org that helps feed the black, trans and gender nonconforming community. This month, they've also launched a mental health initiative in honor of Nina Pop and Tony McDade to help individuals pay for free therapy. You can visit the Okra Project.com to learn more and donate if you're in a position to do so. You can find links in the episode description and on our social media accounts at Blank Check Pod.

Thank you and enjoy the episode. What are you going to do? Well, I'm going to get out of bed every morning, breathe in and out all day long. And then after a while, I won't have to remind myself to get out of bed every morning and breathe in and out. And then after a while, I won't have to think about how I had a great end podcast for a while. What's the line? What's the word being replaced? Perfect. Yeah.

Now, David, can you give me another line reading? Okay. Can you ask me, tell me what was so special about your wife? Tell me what was so special about your wife? Well, how long is your podcast? Uh, well, it was a million tiny little things that, you know, when you added them all up, they meant we were supposed to be together. And I knew it, you know, I knew it the very first time I podcasted her, it was like podcasting home only to no podcast i'd ever known i was just taking her podcast to podcast her out of a podcast and i knew it was it was like podcast i'm glad we've ruined this movie a movie you have long contended is perfect and i finally found a way to ruin hello everybody let me at it my name

is griff the ruiner newman uh i'm david i'm sleepless in sims sleepless in brooklyn yeah sleepless in brooklyn how you sleeping davey uh all right um i would say i'm a good sleeper. And I would say that I basically still sleep okay. I just wake up at like 9 a.m. now, which is pretty late for me. So I've just sort of been shifted over a little bit. Sure. Yes. No, I cannot imagine waking up that late. This is a podcast.

I don't talk to you about sleeping because it's just like we don't talk about we have very different experience we have very different relationships with sleep your your relationship to sleep is kind of like meg ryan and uh uh bill pullman my relationship to sleep is kind of like tom hanks and his dead wife uh and this is a podcast called blank check with griffin and david it's aboutographies, directors who have massive sleepless success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear,

and sometimes they bounce. Be in the sub-me series on the films of Nora Ephron. It's called You've Got Podcast. And today, we're talking about her breakthrough. Yeah, as a director, right. As a director. Obviously. One of the're talking about her breakthrough yeah as a director right as a director well one of the unique things about her an established writer but she this is her breakthrough as a filmmaker right i mean established as a uh a prose writer before becoming established as a screenwriter that before then becoming established as a director

and this is her commercial breakthrough as all of it. This is the Guarantor. Oh my God, David. I was just going to try to chime in and talk before I was introduced and say Guarantor and speak the language of the show. But you nailed it. You nailed it. Yeah.

This is, she gets to make movies for the rest of her career because of this, right? You make one of these. No matter how many bombs. Yes, absolutely. This is one of those films. I feel like we've covered a couple of them on the podcast where it's like, if you make this once, they're going to keep on giving you money in the hopes that you replicate it.

Exactly. Yeah. And then, you know, of course it helps that a couple of times she did, but like, she's also made a lot of weird movies that didn't connect, but it didn't matter.

She always had this to point to. Is this the biggest, I don't want to spoil like box office game or anything, but like this, is this her biggest hit? No. Right. No box office game or anything but like this is this her biggest hit no um right no adjusted maybe but unadjusted it probably is i think you've got mail made slightly more they made similar amounts of money they both basically made like close to 250 worldwide yeah it's amazing but she i mean she essentially had four movies make a hundred or very close to a hundred yeah yeah sleepless michael julie julia and you've got mail those are her four box office hits right and um yeah i mean mike right michael

did pretty well um and right michael michael almost joined the century club right i mean yes yes it did yes and then bewitched did okay relative to its budget not so hot right right and then lucky numbers and mixed nuts are like on absolute bombs i mean she was pretty much an alternator it was like kind of every other one for her it's why she's always made sense for our podcast because she's she's got like wild bombs in her career yes absolutely it's there's not a lot of like uh rom-com directors i feel like who like have like huge swing miss type projects on their resume usually it's like yeah that one was okay but let's talk about someone who i think has had zero bombs on her blank check resume. That's right.

Not only is she one of our best guests, but also every movie she's covered is a clear. Yeah, we always give you good movies. Yeah, I know. I guess I'm like demanding them or something. I don't think you guys. Someone was trying to like break down the patterns of different regular guests and what kind of movies they get.

Really? Well, yeah. And it's like Alex Rose Perry always wants movies that people, if you pointed a gun at them, would be like, I haven't heard of it. He always wants the film that exists the least within a famous director. They'd be like, no, Ang Lee, he made a movie about Woodstock. Demetri Martin was the star. And you'd be like, you're going to have to shoot me. I just have no recollection.

Right. Right. And like, like, I feel like Ehrlich always gets something that's like, oh, it's like barely an on base hit. Like Ehrlich always gets like.

That's yeah. Yeah, that's true. I'm trying to remember what the other patterns that were identified were. Porch movies. Porch movies. Porch movies. Ben always gets the porch movie. Puffer's porch movies.

I feel like Emily Yoshida's just been on too many times to have a pattern. Like she just, she gets car punch. But Yoshida gets like movies that are often like sort of like abrasive or strange in some way. Like Ice Storm, Elle, Strange Days, right? Even Speed Racer. are often like sort of like abrasive or strange in some way like ice storm l strange days right even speed racer yeah but then you get batman return i mean it's a weird turns freak people out though oh yeah jd's technical stuff usually some sort of advancement but but let's just talk about let's talk about oh and richard has movies from like 1995 to 1999 or like richard it's just talk about, let's talk about. Oh, and Richard has movies from like 1995 to 1999. Like Richard, it's just this like tight 10 year pocket.

It's like 93 to 03. Tom Hanks may well be involved. Have you guys addressed it on the show? How Richard's trolls have ruined the movie industry? Has this come up yet in the timeline? It is insane the way that the trolls are the thing that finally broke cinema. It is crazy, because

I do feel like, it's not like Universal didn't know what they were doing, but they were probably just kind of like, I don't know, let's just release it. I don't know, fuck it. Jesus, who cares? And then the trolls were like, ah! Richard, let's say this, Richard knew, right? Richard knew what was gonna happen

I mean he knew on that fateful night when he like added whatever chemical X to his cauldron that caused the first one of those things to come out of the whatever world they're from he knew I want to talk about I want to talk about a little episode

agraphy here okay wow the sixth sense the episode in which the box office game is created little episode-ography here, okay? Wow. The Sixth Sense. The episode in which the box office game is created. It's true. Wow. Titanic. Broadcast News. Collateral.

And now entering officially the Five Timers Club. Right, this is the official one because Titanic doesn't really count. Yeah, I wasn't actually on the second part of the Titanic episode because I had to leave with my child. Right. This is the official one because Titanic is doesn't really count. Yeah. I wasn't actually on the second part of the Titanic episode because I had to leave with my child. Right. Now a grown boy.

Yeah. We want to give him a head start on the five timers club. He's closer than anyone else of his age. He was also so great on the fifth anniversary episode. Oh, that was so bad. Oh, he made me cry. I felt like I, uh, I, uh, I really, I really made up for how he made me cry felt like i uh i uh i really i really made up for how he made me leave the titanic episode no no no i mean you know they say leave them wanting more but the

amount of people who like reached out to me and i'm sure uh ben and david and you experienced this as well and just said like oh i just started crying hysterically at Charlie's segment. Well, him just talking about popcorn and this is like right when people are like, when am I going to go to a movie theater and eat popcorn? That's true. Yeah.

That's the thing. He summed up the filmmaking experience. Exactly. And then Richard broke it. I mean, the film's like the cinema going experience. Sorry. But anyway,

those are the names of the movies that our guest has been uh guest for and what's our guest name have no credit for having contributed to the world i just want to be clear on that never made any movies despite going to film school little gold man katie rudge i thought i was gonna have to bring up being in the five timers club myself because I got very excited about it. I'm on that tip. And let me say, here's another tip I'm on. I just finished watching Sleepless in Seattle. I'm recovering from crying.

And this felt like a night to break out for the first time in quarantine. I've been trying to hold it off for as long as I could to break out my Skywalker Ranch Rose. This is George Lucas vineyard Rose. I could to break out my Skywalker ranch. Rose. Wow. This is George Lucas vineyard. Rose. And,

uh, two, two thousand, uh, 17, uh, a great year for cinema, a great year for wine. And this is my,

my oversized wine glass full of Rose that I'm going to drink. Oh, wow. That's a Nancy Myers. Poor, not an or a front efron pour i'll say this these were the only things left by the previous tenants when i moved into my apartment those glasses they're big these giant wine glasses and i've been waiting for the opportunity to use them and it's tonight ladies and gentlemen bottoms up uh sleepless in seattle nora efron. Katie Rich is our guest.

We introduced her, right? Five Timers Club, baby. Don't forget it. She's in the Five Timers Club and she's in North Carolina, but that won't stop us from having her on the show. Yeah, I really appreciate a global pandemic being the opportunity for me to come on the show at my convenience. Because this is probably the first time you've been on the show in a while that you haven't had to change into a party dress either like before or after the

recording or like stress like text under the table the people i was supposed to meet after being like sorry guys it's running late like i don't know it will be there eventually yeah i gotta know where to be and let's say also you were on the schedule i mean you have been set for this episode for a long time back when we thought it was gonna to sync up with a New York trip. And we were going to record this episode remotely in the top of the Empire State Building. All of us were going to show up with our own Zoom recorders. Really clean audio up there.

Just the wind and outer backs. Just lovely. Yeah, plain. But that was the only reason we were so well equipped from a hardware standpoint for these remote records as we had all bought all of course equipment to be able to record on top of the empire state building just five very normal people just standing around with mics at the top of the empire state building well i mean if you go by this movie no one would call the cops about

that i mean according to sleepless in seattle security at empire city building is like yeah sure go up run around for all i care or that it's full of people and like a bunch of adults who would see a child by himself for hours he's fine here's my thing about that i think that might happen because if you're on the empire state building and you see a kid wandering around you're like well yeah there's like three third grade classes everyone would just have the same right yeah right we were we were going to record this at 10 p.m atop the empire state building i should mention so our plan was to each one by one go up to the security guard and go please please please i i know there's there's almost no chance that

they're actually up there but i was supposed to meet some people for a podcast just let me and they would say a podcast oh you should have said so blank check one of my wife's favorites my wife's favorite but in nora efron movies every fucking like New York City doorman or Z-counter, Zabar's counter guy, they're always just the wisest little guy. And they love their wives. And they love love. Yeah. Yeah. Every taxi driver.

Yeah, the taxi driver who takes this unaccompanied child to the Empire State Building. He's just like, go for it, kid. Do what you gotta do. Did he bring any money? Hey, sure. No what you gotta do. Did he bring any money? No problem, kid. Did the kid bring any money? He had. They have a conversation about it. They have $80, which Gabby Hoffman says

should cover the cabs. That's accurate. I don't know what it was in 93, but you know, $80 to get from LaGuardia to the Empire State Building. $80? That sounds like Gabby Hoffman's entire residual check for This Is My Life.

Not a big grocer. Not a big box office hit. So Katie, we have already watched This Is My Life, which I'm assuming you haven't seen because no one has.

No, I was going to ask you guys if you had done it because I was kind of looking to, I did not think this was her first movie. And I obviously knew about when Harry met Sally, but I didn't know when her directorial debut was. And I saw this is my life.

And I said, wow, that is a movie I did not know existed. Um, I'm, I'm curious about what you learned. I guess people can listen to the episode. It's pretty great.

Okay. I believe it's not this. Julie Kavner is a star. Julie Kavner. Uh, and then Gabby Hoffman and Samantha Mathis are her daughters and Carrie Fisher is her manager or

whatever and Dan Aykroyd is her agent yeah Dan Aykroyd plays a character very very closely based on Sam Cohen founder of CAA and he spends most of the movie eating napkins it's a good movie but but it is not a hit in any way shape or form and it is not particularly well reviewed even uh not a hit and yet they let her make another movie yes but it is funny when you i'm when i've been sort of thinking about because

i watched heartburn just sort of because it was on but also i was like well i should watch harper and like you know in prep for this right even though we're not going to do it and both harper and this is my life got the same reviews which is like too nasty like i don't care about these people like that she was seen as being a little too caustic you know a little too new york i guess which i also and i feel like sleepless in seattle is bringing that down but we were talking about how uh I guess right before we recorded we were talking about how Nora almost like cleanly alternates every other movie between a hit and a flop and the flops are almost always the ones that are a little more caustic and that's like okay I'm gonna make like a straight down the middle like I can do these souffle films better than anybody and then that one's a hit and then she's like great now I get to make a caustic one.

And every time the caustic one is kind of rejected. Right. But she's got that streak in her. Yes. I mean, certainly her sort of humor writing early on in her career, leading to Heartburn and those early screenplays. And then, like, I think Reiner, who is a very sentimental filmmaker, but for the first 10 years of his career or so, those early screenplays. And then like, I think Reiner, who is a very sentimental filmmaker,

but for the first 10 years of his career or so was a very effectively sentimental filmmaker figured out how to balance the, the Noracostic wit with a little more classical kind of rom-com energy for Harry met Sally. She does this as my life, which is its own thing. And then this feels like her being like, I should try to make something that's got a little bit of that When Harry Met Sally feel to it.

Well, and she's inheriting a script from these other guys. And the thing that I wasn't able to figure out is like what it was, what it really was when it came to her because there were these guys taking credit for being like, we had it in Baltimore and Seattle and we had the kid calling the radio show.

Like they were kind of trying to make it sound intact. Do we know what Nora brought to it? I think they had the concept because this movie is so much higher concept than her other movies certainly than her movies previous right like her movies previous so like hey look you know life it's tough it's tough to love people like and this movie is like this movie has to thread that really careful needle of like we need this woman's behavior to not seem psychotic throughout, even though it's obviously what she's doing is very strange. I don't know what you're talking about.

It's not strange to just stand behind a building and watch a father and son frolic on the beach to stand in the middle of the street. But right. Like it's very high concept. Like, so I'm sure that was the pitch. It's like, what if you heard someone

on the radio and you fell in love with them because they were just, just a sweetie pie. Were those radio shows popular? Like, was that a thing? Oh, yeah.

Oh, Delilah's still on the air. It's the same term as Frasier. Yeah, Delilah's still huge. Yeah. Oh, is that Delilah in the movie? I don't know if it's literally,

but there's still, yeah, there's an equivalent that is still big today. But like, if you think about Frasier, which begun, when did the spinoff Frasier? I think maybe this year. Yeah, like David Hyde Pierce is in this, in some tiny weird role. And they're both mocking the sort of like doctor, you know, like that kind of like branded, serious personality who's like, I'm for you you know with the sort of like npr

voice well and that's the beauty of when this movie starts with uh with meg ryan listening to her she's just like this piece of shit like i'm not don't listen to her like hang up on her and tom hanks doing the same thing like you are watching them kind of like dismiss the entire concept of it which you as a person in 1993 who might not have ever gone to therapy or know anyone who was a therapist, might feel the same way. Right. Right. And yeah, you know, all that stuff is so feminized, too, right? Like, you know, like, which was dismissed at the time.

And so, like, oh, yeah, you know, like, in Britain, they call it an agony aunt. A what? An agony aunt, you know? Wait, why would you pronounce it that way and why would you even know what a weird phrase well for one some americans pronounce it that way which has always thrown me and i've never i always forget what it is that makes like what's the regional okay so then fair enough david you have answered my question you are one of those rare americans who pronounces it that way and no further information no i'm not and do you pronounce

it that way is it is it a Boston, like a Massachusetts thing? My aunt? I have like a Ani Jackie. Yeah, I say Ani. There you go. See? See? It's Ange.

Ange, you're from Boston? Yeah. What? All right, cue the dropkick Murphys. No, Griffin. As we all know, I grew up in- Oh my God. Oh my God, that's great. No, no, no, no. no Griffin as we all know I grew up in Britain oh my god oh my god

that's crazy no no no no we all know that in this miniseries I've never heard that in my life remember were you guys retired to bit again

I just forgot momentarily sorry the bit hasn't been retired there's I don't know what you're talking about there was never a bit we all know that for most of my life

I lived in London no I'm sorry Katie I forgot I forgot I'm stupid here we did find out in the last episode that David did spend his entire For most of my life, I lived in London. No, I'm sorry. Katie, I forgot. I forgot. I'm stupid here. We did find out in the last episode that David did spend his entire adolescence in London. It's the only place he lived before the age of 25. And then he moved to New York around that time, maybe a little bit earlier.

That's what we know. No, I know it. And I realize now I was doing I was being foolish And that of course we know that you never lived Anywhere other than London That's all we know What you're forgetting is that I also grew up On the up west side of Manhattan

Till I was nine that's where I first lived Uptown Davy Sims In Efron territory Uptown Davy Sims But this movie's not too New York-y until the end, obviously. This movie is, yeah. But it also kind of is. But wait.

Like the fact that it's in Baltimore. Well, yeah, it is. She can't shake it. I love a movie that's set in a city that's not in a bunch of movies. Like the fact that it's Baltimore and Seattle, especially Seattle in this era. It's like, yeah, credit to these cities. They deserve their spot. But also like the whole newspaper office thing.

You're like, okay, this feels New York-orky it's not like another character in the movie no but it does have beautiful like her apartment is in the inner harbor like she's got a nice location well i mean and his place is a fucking boat it's on water oh my god that's the best kind of house i love it i will say this movie made me really think about like almost as important to uh a rom-com success as movie stars is good locations and this is a good city right this is a movie that's just like three distinct cities you know and clearly shot in those cities yes and they even sneak in a little chicago at the beginning there just a little sneak right at the beginning oh my god that graveyard the reveal of the whole chicago skyline my goodness i think rom-coms need specific locations

they need a sense of the place they're set and they need good restaurants you know good bars good streets to have exterior scenes on nothing's worse than when you're like fuck we wrote this script for new york and we shot it in vancouver and we're just pretending vancouver is new york you gotta own wherever you're filming yeah or the sort of spate of suburbs movies which is more of a teen thing obviously because there's so many teen like school dramas where they're like like love simon where they're all in their suvs and they're drinking iced coffee from starbucks and i'm like this could be anywhere like where they live i mean you could tell me the world you brought me here to talk about love simon because they go to waffle

house and love simon it's filmed in atlanta it's set in atlanta and the fact that they go to waffle house for a kid who grew up in the south like I did like Waffle House is where you go when you're a teenager and you're not drinking I love Waffle House but they never go to the city in Love, Simon No, because they're in the suburbs

like they're in Alpharetta or whatever They're suburb boys whereas the purest masterpiece of the 21st century Set It Up the greatest film of all time

about setting it up that's a movie where Zoe Deutsch puts on a New york yankees baseball cap my friend and eats a hot dog that's how you know instant five stars that's how you know the new york yankees i it managed to make me find that scene extremely charming when you watch that scene and she's wearing the yankee cap you're like i love no i mean i legally am not allowed to ever ever say that like i i

understand ben affleck when he refused to wear it on the set of gone girl but uh very cute movie i've always the over dick around is like the greatest like bit ever introduced but watching this okay in relation to set it up which by default is the best movie of the 21st century. But this is from the 20th, so Sleeps in Seattle gets its own spot. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Do you see how many scenes there are in this movie where it's just like two actors with almost no cuts in a two shot with a really clear sense of where they are, be it on the streets or inside? You know?

Tom Hanks and Rob Reiner in that bar in the public market in Seattle where they eat mussels? Like he gets a bowl of mussels? Yes. I'm like, my god, that looked delicious. When I was a kid, I was like, I gotta live in this Seattle place. This place looks fucking great. It looks unbelievable. Get on a boat!

Oh god. Because she's gonna move to Seattle, right? Is she gonna move to seattle that's actually a good question he's a recent seattle transplant yeah he doesn't have a lot tying him there whereas she's a baltimore gal i guess so maybe but she's kind of gonna get away from bill pullman like she doesn't want to like be around hurting him so maybe it makes sense for her like back then the newspaper industry was like robust and she could go just work for a different paper but as david said true he she doesn't have a lot he doesn't have a lot tying him there he's literally for her. Like back then, the newspaper industry was like robust and she could go just work for a different paper. But as David said,

she doesn't have a lot, he doesn't have a lot tying him there. He's literally just tied to a dock. It would be very easy for him to just toot, toot,

take his entire life wherever. No, no, they're in a lake. There's this lake in the middle of Seattle. The first time I went to Seattle, my sister-in-law was there.

You better believe I went and found that lake where all those houseboats are because I was like, all right, sleep with some Seattle driving tourin-law was there. You better believe I went and found that lake where all those houseboats are because I was like, alright, sleep with Seattle driving tour. They're all there. It's beautiful. So he's got to take the boat over land to get to Baltimore is my point.

What if it's not a houseboat? It's a house duck boat and he can drive it on to land. And give tours. Give tours. Supplemental income. and give tours give tours supplemental income because there's a lot of geography humor like there's the Duluth conversation there's the Tulsa

where he like pulls the map down he pulls the map down twice he does it for Oklahoma and for Baltimore and my favorite is after he says Baltimore he goes ah and then walks away. Wait, he goes like, ah! Also, having the map hanging in your house,

like as a parent, I feel like, okay, that's a smart idea. Like you can teach him shit at dinner just by having that map handy. Or you can talk about women that you can't fuck to your eight year old. Also an important lesson. I was trying to find more info

on the development of this film because it is kind of interesting how it came about. It was written by two guys. And then I think Linda Obst was the key figure. I mean, you were saying, Katie, like facetiously, imagine that they let her make another movie after the first one flopped. But the answer almost every time that a female filmmaker gets another shot is that there is a more powerful woman in the industry who really puts her neck out, like betting on someone.

Well, I mean, Nora Ephron had an Oscar nomination for When Harry Met Sally, I guess. So she had some cred more than like another first time female director. Absolutely. But I also could see in this horrible, horrible world we live in and how much even more horrible it was for women in the industry a couple decades ago. Not that's much better now. That they could be like, well, the proof is go back to writing. You can't make it as a director. You know, we'll keep on hiring you to write screenplays but linda oops was the one who uh got this is my life made and i believe is the one who had

this screenplay and had the idea to put the elements together and go nora come on rewrite this thing make it yours um ben do you know the two men who wrote the original script for Sleepless in Seattle, which I then believe this thing rings of her humor and sensibility so thoroughly. Oh, yeah. It's a page one rewrite. Right, it's a page one rewrite with the same story. It was written by two men, Jeff Arch and David S. Ward. David S. Ward came up recently on this podcast. Do you know why, Ben?

No, I do not. Because he wrote and directed a little film called King Ralph. Okay. And Major League. And Major League. Oh, sure. Yes. I proposed him as one of Ben's favorite directors of all time.

Without Ben maybe knowing that. I did it, and I forgot, and I'm reminded, and I love it. His directorial career is something called Cannery Row with Nick Nolte and Debra Wink. This is what's funny about King Ralph. And then he's a normal blue collar Joe. He's a king now. Guys, we can't

dissect the premise of King Ralph on this podcast again. But yeah, Major League King Ralph Major League to down Paris down periscope classic submarine comedy and here i was thinking he was just some dude who like managed to get a direct like a writing credit on a nora efron movie he he's got the bona fides i mean he did other things but i mean iron will sealed with a kiss not really yeah ward

is the one who who i mean was sort of established at this point and also had won an oscar for writing the sting he wrote his career as fucking wild but i wonder if at one point ward was going what's wild is that the sting made like adjusted a billion dollars or whatever. I mean, it was for a long time. Uh, the highest grossing film.

I mean, it would have gotten beaten by Jaws like right after, but it was probably like in the top 10 for a long time. Jaws and the Godfather. But like it, it was a, yes. And,

and it's sort of like the sting, I think is like a pretty cute movie that looks nice and it's like about handsome guys you know doing doing stings but like if you i don't like come on yeah the sting it's okay am i oh yes yes it did 70s were strange time but it won best picture because everyone was just like that's the movie of the year like who you always wish the oscars would do that more so maybe i shouldn't make fun of it uh i just have the number here uh in 1973 into 74 it made unadjusted 160 million dollars which would be 800 million domestic today.

And it's like, Hey, the sting. And if people are playing pianos and they got hats, you know, they're doing a sting. It beat it's bet. The best fiction nominees were a touch of class cries and whispers,

the exorcist, American graffiti and the sting. Wow. I mean, those are three like humongous blockbusters in there and then cries and whispers which which like snuck into best picture and was shot by the by sven nyquist of course ingmar bergman cinematographer who shot sleepless in sleep which is a great looking movie and like i think you're talking about two shots griff and you're talking about simplicity and like you know not cunning too much i like this is a lovely and well composed film and i think

yes so many rom-coms now when we even are lucky enough to get one look so much like sitcoms yeah like set it up i didn't know how to diss set it up after all that but yes no you're allowed to diss how it looks you're not meant to be watched on your phone. Yes, right. It's the next Netflix book. Look, these companies that make films for their streaming services offer guidelines for how they should shoot them so that they will read equally well on any device

versus a movie like this that you can tell is designed visually to be watched in a theater. It still plays well at home, but you don't do like the Bill Pullman, Meg Ryan scene where they go to Tiffany's

and check out the ring in a pretty wide two shot with that many extras in the background and almost no cuts yeah if you're designing a movie to be watched on the phone well also the fact that nora effron got ingmar bergman cinematographer is how you can tell she had like some power behind her whether herself or a producer being like no no i'm not taking whatever cheap guy you want to give me

like bring this guy over from fucking sweden and he's gonna shoot my movie i mean yeah this is a big movie i guess philadelphia is the same year like i get this is the year hanks i guess is is jumping to the next level right yeah does this come out before philadelphia before uh it comes it comes out before philadelphia but they're you know and he's like he's like fresh off league of their own which is like a tiny a small thing but also like bonfire the vanities like he's in a weird sorry you're probably gonna get into this later but like he's in a weird spot yes no he is he's definitely because like next year obviously is gump and then after gump you know that's that he's america's you know most beloved actor but

this is the year i guess where he's fully recovered because league of their own is him like taking a supporting role that he's not ostensibly right for like you know it's sort of weird that he played the angry drunk in league of their own. Like that's not like, you know, at the time he had to kind of talk them into that. And, uh,

talk about a perfect movie though. Oh, and he's so good in it. God, Griffin league of their own thoughts. He's amazing. I'm sorry. I was looking this up just for a little clarification.

So arch writes this as a spec script. He's an English teacher and he's always wanted to be a screenwriter. Good for him. And he goes, this is my year. I have to make it or break it. He writes three spec scripts. He sends them out. The third one is Sleepless in Seattle.

That ends up on the producer Gary Foster's desk. He works on it with Arch, but they feel like it's not working. So they bring on David S. Ward. I have to imagine maybe to direct it at some point sure but at the very least to whip it into shape um he makes the big change that it is the son who calls into the radio show and makes the son more integral to the romance in terms of setting it up but they're like still isn't totally yes it's still not totally working and then ward seemingly said this should be more like

when harry met sally and so they actually reach out to norah efron that's fascinating listen up let me tell you a story toronto critics are losing their heads over six the musical the globe and male raves six reign supreme and is eye-poppingly fun. CTV proclaims Six is a royal 10. Six is an upbeat, hilarious, and emotional 80-minute ride, says CHFI Radio. Join the six wives of Henry VIII at the Royal Alexandra Theatre.

Now on stage. Book at Mirvish.com. The other thing is, it was supposed to be Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan. Right. They optioned the script, right? They were a hot celeb couple.

Right. And from the arts draft, it was like, this would be a good vehicle for us. We would like to do a rom-com together. That's funny considering... In which we barely interact. Yeah, you don't interact. It's sort of a weird choice for an actual couple like totally lest us not

forget though we are in a denizens we are and we should acknowledge that um whatever they they got the right two people like there's not i mean meg ryan is cinema's greatest flipper to jibbit and like that's what this is. Because again, everyone else, you'd be like, this woman's out of her mind. And Meg Ryan just kind of has that kind of bubbly, weird energy in all these movies where you're like, oh yeah, she's just kind of odd.

That's what she would do. She's America's sweetheart. And it is, you think about how much of this movie rests on long unbroken singles of meg ryan listening to a radio and then when she talks though like she has that like like that sort of singing way of talking where she's like oh you know i mean uh like where she does that all the time oh walter he did the most oh and like people are just sort of looking at her like who the fuck you're so weird oh man the cutaways to rosie o'donnell when she brings

up walter like rosie o'donnell i i feel like gets underrated in this for what she adds as the best friend role and as like the cynic who eventually is going along with meg ryan's plot which i think is probably part of what also makes her seem less insane where she's like no no i think you gotta go you gotta go to seattle um she's probably too hard on bill pullman right he seems so nice pullman is very good i like about this movie i mean we'll get to pullman we'll get to pullman we gotta do a whole pullman side part but this is the movie that single-handedly like makes like transforms rosie's career right from her her just being like a standup to being like a major Hollywood. Well,

a league of their own, a league of their own. Oh, fair enough. It's the back to back. It's the back to back of those two of her being like, you know, brassy and funny and blah,

blah, blah on. I'm trying to think if there was anything I'm looking. I mean, talk show talk shows like 97. Yeah. I think 96. Yeah. So, you know, a couple of years from now, a little yeah i think 96 yeah so you know a couple years from now a little later um so you know she has a car 54 where are you uh this year um she has like

another stakeout remember she's on the poster in another stakeout right she's like the the new cast edition in that one this sort of like right you, another stakeout, Richard Dreyfuss. I'm like, I know, Emilio Estevez. I'm like, I've been there before and they're like,

hold on, Rosie O'Donnell. And I'm like, she's gonna make it all kooky. This is crazy. I can't believe you cast her. Watching this and I had not seen

this movie before, which is crazy. Wait, what? But it made me realize we've talked about this and you've yelled at me before. Damn, that does ring a faint bell but that's crazy

is it a generation like cause like for me like Sleepless in Seattle it came out years before I saw it I think but like as a kid it was like

this is what a romcom is like everyone has seen and is aware of Sleepless in Seattle totally it is completely inexplicable I haven't seen it

I have no reason in court it is weird because yeah like I watched other rom-coms. It wasn't like I avoided the genre. I was a big Hanks fan. I liked Meg Ryan and I certainly viewed it as such. I knew it was that canonical and important.

It's very weird that I didn't see it when I was young in the VHS days and that I still haven't seen it until now. I mean, at a certain point, like the last six months, I've been like, well, don't watch it yet. Wait to do a triple check. Well, sure, but that's not explaining the other 20-odd years of not seeing this. Yeah, right. There were 30 years where I was really lagging on it.

I actually, I hadn't seen this, You've Got Mail, or When Harry Met Sally until in the past few years. I mean, it's just demented. I know it's generational slightly that all those movies definitely do belong to, you know, the last generation a little bit. No, the other two I saw often and early.

I feel like Harry Met Sally and You've Got Mail. I want to go back to the thread that Katie was pulling on though. This Hanks moment. Because you go, like, Hanks is sitcom star. He's, like, really kind of, like, harmless, goofy, fun guy.

And then he sort of surprisingly makes the jump to movies. You know, he doesn't seem like, oh, the guy from Bosom Buddies is obviously going to become a leading man. Yeah, I mean... But then it's, like, sort of, like,

inauspicious start. Splashing bachelor party and the money pit. Right, I'm saying like bachelor party is like okay what you expect the bottom bosom buddies guy to go on to but then that's a surprise hit then like splash is like oh that's a breakthrough that's like a new level for him that was the same year movie crazy yeah crazy so that's like building and building and building to like big where he gives this

magnificent performance gets an oscar nomination everyone's like oh i think we like kind of underrated him he's a little more than just a comedy guy and then there's that massive massive misstep with uh bonfire well but it goes after big it goes the burbs which i like but was not like not a hit at the time or whatever you know what i mean mean? Like, Burbs sort of little. It was a hit. Was a little too dark. Is that one of those things that was, like, made before he knew Big was going to be a big thing? Possibly. I think so.

Right. And it was, it was a hit because I looked it up and the Burbs was the number one film at the box office the weekend I was born. Oh, that's nice. People were doing a challenge. The Burbs did okay, but, like, the Burbs was just a little, you know, whatever. It was not a sensation. Turner and Hooch, which obviously he's like kind of embarrassed by, Ben probably likes.

But was a hit. Was a hit. Yeah, but like not a movie people take seriously. Not the kind of thing you pivot off an Oscar nomination into. I think it was a why is Hanks doing a dog movie thing.

But it was embarrassingly successful. In 1990, he has Jovers of the Volcano and Bonfire of the Vanity, same year. So people are kind of like, he's fucking up like yeah when he's like we gave you the shot we loved you doing the thing yeah yeah and i think

if anything people are going like maybe he needs to know his limitations which is a weird thing to think about tom hanks now but at that time they were like what's he doing he's going supernatural he's doing dark comedies he shouldn't be doing any of this stuff. Hanks is like a puppy dog. He's a little boy. But then like- Know your lane, Hanks. 1993 with Sleepless in Seattle, which it's just like, yep, he's a great rom-com lead

who you can fall in love with and he'll open your movie. And then Philadelphia, he wins an Oscar. That's it. He's just locked into place. And from there on, it's just locked into place and from there on it's just every movie is a totally but this is what i want to talk about because katie brought this up the fact that league of their own is the year before this that was a film that i think he signed on too late the character was written to be older people were surprised he

was doing it and on its face i think it probably looked like here he goes making the fucking bonfire mistake again you know because bonfire everyone said like the guy's too likable this character is more complicated you shouldn't have passed this puppy dog a guy he's miscasting bonfire for that reason he doesn't seem like someone with a dark edge right so on its face you're like like league of their own the guy is just he here you go this is the final nail in the coffin the guy's fucking himself over this part should be someone in their 50s it should be someone ornery it shouldn't be tom hanks and that is like i think such a big corrective to being like no i figured out how to modulate myself i can make myself work in

different types of movies so totally their own is so important for that too and that it's totally and like he is like a mean guy but you need to be rooting for him like you need that friendship between him and gina davis to take flight and also you've got john lovitz who's like the more ornery person you compare him to where he's like like trash talking all the women so you get to tom hanks he doesn't seem so bad And like the worst thing he does is pee for a really long time, which I will never forget for the rest of my life. I mean, the peeing is great.

Well, it's inexcusable. He should have been arrested. Yes, he and Austin Powers both should have been arrested for how long they peed. God, two long peeing jokes of the 90s that like really forged my sense of humor. I should think about that.

But I do think, yes, it's like the fact that that movie is a little bit more austere than anything he had been in up until that point even though it's a funny movie and it's a crowd pleaser it is a little bit less of a straightforward comedy and something like uh whatchamacallit uh bonfire fails from veering too far into comedy. Like that's the movie that kind of shows

You can't even begin with Bonfire. That movie is absolutely out of its mind. League of Their Own is both Hank saying wait a second

I know how to use myself I can fit into different movies I can play different types of people and I can fit into different tones. I think that's the big thing.

Yeah and you see him like kind of going from that of like being comfortable in his own skin in League of Their Own I can play different types of people and I can fit into different tones. I think that's the big thing. Yeah. And you see him like kind of going from that, like being comfortable in his own skin and Leo their own to sleep is in Seattle where he walks into this rom-com setup and he just feels like as cozy and as like ready for this as you can imagine. Like you think he's made 10 rom-coms before this. My God, he's so good.

And you're like, Oh, he pretty much had just in terms of straight rom-coms done joe versus the volcano which is the furthest thing from a straight rom-com yeah i mean splash is sort of a rom and splash and i mean it's kind of like a high concept not really big is sort of a rom it's a comedy i mean big is so weird because he does have sex with a woman. Yeah, it's not a movie you want to look back on and then remember the romance. Yeah, Big is a movie where I feel like every week someone tweets like, I just watched Big.

I had seen Big. I forgot he actually fucks her. Like, there's a version of that every week. Yes, yeah. Like a lot. It's not like, one time you would never do that like they don't have sex in 13 and a half weeks right like no there's no like that it's not something you would do at an age not in shazam no god but what a title what which one favorite

movie title yeah big and splash ben it's like really back to back yeah what if he was just in a movie called bones i mean that's the show yeah i would be a hundred percent i mean it's also he remade the snoop dog horror film yeah exactly yeah it's also wild that he was in a movie called toy story which is griffin's favorite movie but also favorite movie title like you know that he was in a movie called Toy Story, which is Griffin's favorite movie, but also favorite movie title. That just sounds like a movie for Griffin. Excuse me, correction. My favorite movie title is Toy Story 2.

All right, all right, all right. But he's so good in this. Yes, I just was going to say, though, there's eight years in between Splash and Sleepless, which means he has the time to sort of grow the fuck up. And like Big, he's a boy and the other ones we're talking about are so heightened or weird tonally that this is like his first time since Splash and his first time

ever in like a completely grounded, real world adult rom-com. And as you said, Katie, he just enters into this being like I fucking got this. Hold my beer. I know exactly who Tom Hanks is on screen.

And sharing a bunch of scenes with a kid, which like you imagine like finding your level, like when you, you know, that first big scene they have where they're on the phones together.

Like that's a crazy challenge. Yeah, the kid's so good. He's really good. He's so good. He's one of those kids who just is like an accountant now right like yeah he works at a car dealership

excuse me he became the voice of TJ in Recess he was the voice of TJ in the first season of Recess and then was replaced yikes he retired from acting

when he right exactly when he, right, exactly. When he was no longer a cute kid. Okay. Do we think Colin was like about this age at the time? Because their chemistry is very cute. Wait, wait, wait. Colin, wait, what about Colin? Colin Hanks.

Because at this point, I believe Chet Hanks is about my age. Yeah, Chet's really little. He's just born around this time. Colin Hanks is like late 70s, I think. Yeah, Colin Hanks is about my age. Yeah, Chet's really little. He's just born around this time. Colin Hanks is like late 70s, I think. Yeah, Colin Hanks was born in the, he would have been a teenager at this point. But also.

But Tom's a young dad. Yes, but also Tom. Yeah, he was a young dad. They were divorced. Tom's first two kids, I think were with the mom a lot and all that because like that's the whole thing with everyone with everyone's like what's up with Chet Hanks and it's

like well basically only new post Gump like right like you know like at that point Tom Hanks is just a mega star like it's just a different world like Colin Hanks was born when Tom Hanks was a nobody is Chet the one with all the tattoos?

Oh yeah. Yes. Chet's the one who wrapped in patois at the Golden Globes. Yeah. Yeah. Chet Hayes. And gave his coronavirus announcement. Like my dad's doing okay.

That was touching though. That was like, Chet Hayes really stepped up. I like Cuomo. That's the thing where he was like, Hey, what's what, what,

what? Like my, my parents got the Rona. I'm like, chat, you're really, you're really handling with this right. The right amount of sensitivity.

That was like Trump wouldn't like say the word coronavirus and Chad Hayes is like, we all need to stay home and like wash our hands. I was handling this better than almost every elected official in the United States of America. Same time though. I can only imagine like Tom and Rita, like quarant Australia and, like, having to deal with that. And then at the same time being like, oh, God, Chet released a video.

Oh, God. What are their Instagram alerts like for Chet? Like, do they get them all or do they try, like, to have someone else watch them so that they don't have to see everything? Their agents definitely step in whenever Chet does something. Yeah, no, I feel like they try not to be alerted. It is funny that like Tom Hanks' key reputation is America's dad, but also Tom Hanks' son is like America's kind of embarrassing son.

You do have Colin who is just like, hey, I'm Colin Hanks. Yeah. Regular guy. And Elizabeth, who's his only daughter i think she's like a writer she has a solid reputation there's a fourth one like sherman what's his name like chet like chet is chester and then the other one has like a very true man he's got a young daughter too he does no yeah no no no he has a granddaughter yeah has a kid kids yeah I've googled this recently

Colin Elizabeth is kids with his first wife and then Chester and Truman Truman or yeah so we had Truman with Rita yeah but yeah Colin Hanks has like a handkerchief company

like very different people yeah why did I think he had a younger daughter i don't know okay well i'm very wrong he's just starting rumors about tom hanks yeah seriously yeah he also uh uh has a dungeon underneath his basement so the thing i was gonna say we've talked about this before that it is one of those things it's not like the thing that makes a movie star but it's one of those things that can give someone an edge is when they're really good with kids yeah yeah because it is so hard as an actor to fake it with kids right you were bringing up on some previous episode how that was kind of the thing that made cluny a star how good he was

with kids on er was sort of what pushed him over the edge. I don't think it's a coincidence that that's what finally got Dustin Hoffman an Oscar was being so good with a kid in a movie. Yeah, I mean, of course. And I mean, of course, in Kramer vs. Kramer, it's like the premise of that movie is like, what if a dad had to spend all the time with a kid? It's still ludicrous in Kramer vs. Kramer.

By this, it's like, yeah, obviously they their relationship just feels like so specific and lovely like they're kind of frank with each other and the kid was like stirring shit up all the time like he's being a dick especially when the new girlfriend comes around yeah and like tom hanks is like aware of it and like dealing with it but like not like you know not flying off the handle like he has patience for him but he like he was like all right i see you making that face and like we're gonna talk about that later uh and then moves on from it he's modeling good dad behavior that whole toothbrushing scene where he's bringing up all the things he's heard about sex i love that scene his friend has cable his friend is cable yeah i just it's just like it's usually so i mean katie you and i are agree on this kid actors get them out of here they're usually annoying i feel like my

my feeling on kid actors gets misinterpreted because like i want the best for all kid actors i want them all to have good lives i want their no i and like if they are not good in a movie i'm not going to be hard on them but i mostly want them all to just go back to school and go home and not be in movies. Like, it just seems like a bad way to grow up. Yeah, definitely don't go to the Oscars. Please do not take your kids to the Oscars. I mean, once in a generation. Don't do a press tour.

But sometimes they wear little suits and it's very cute. I know, but they want to go to bed. They would so much rather be with their friends. Once in a generation. Don't do a press tour. Don't go to fucking parties. No, oh my God, no. Don't do Q&As. Don't be up their friends. Once in a generation. Don't do a press tour. Don't go to fucking parties. No, oh my God, no. Don't do Q&As.

Don't let them be up until midnight. Get them off Instagram. You're going to be a kid in a movie. Be in the movie. Go live your life. And ideally,

don't be in movies at all. Right. I don't care if they're on Sasha Stone's long list. Don't let them fucking work the circuit. But, so,

this kid, not only is he a kid actor but he is also playing unambiguously the wisest character in the movie and the person that the audience is going to agree with throughout like when the kid's like my dad needs to date someone you're like he does need to date someone then when he starts dating someone we don't like him the kid doesn't like him we're like the kid's right this woman's annoying we don't like her hank's fucked up like it's not like we're like the kid should leave him alone we're all like no get her out of here don't you think this is one of those characters that then kind of ruins rom-coms for the next right because you can get away with the shittier version of this yes and they're like this kid is so wise that they're like dad i think it's time for a divorce.

And it's like played by a shittier kid. It's written poorly. They have no chemistry. The film is bad. And you're just like, get this fucking kid out of here. Throw him in jail. Katie, I made you watch One Fine Day. Oh, yeah. Well, I was casting around for something to watch on HBO and you suggested One Fine Day.

And I said, yes, I will watch that. And I was very happy with the recommendation movie I adore but in that the kids are actual just kids Mae Whitman and Alex D. Lentz and they're just chaotic little kids they're not annoying in like a cutesy way they're just doing shit this kid is the thing that it's like you're saying Griff should never work he's he's like urbane he knows how to talk to adults he could talk about sex he's on the computer with gabby hoffman like right like henry in book of henry yeah it should be so fucking irritating right right and this like this then has negative repercussions until i would argue chloe grace moritz in 500 days of summer is the time when all of hollywood has a meeting and

they're like we all agree we're passing a bill this can never happen it's so funny because i obviously she comes out of that with a career and like is in all these movies but she is insufferable in that movie that's the character i know i know i don't even put that on her but that's like her she's literally like, okay, let's sit and talk. How long do you think this has been a problem in your relationship? You're so fucking annoying.

You're like, get the fuck out of here. I mean, I will say, 500 Days of Summer does feel like it's the apex of all of these rom-coms where they're like, let's do every trope and let's dial it up to a million. Like, and we're just gonna,

it's just gonna flood your synapses. It's gonna be completely like a sugar rush. Did 500 Days of Summer permanently break Ron Combs, period? Like, now I'm thinking about almost every element of 500 Days of Summer had the same destructive effect that Chloe Grace Moretz did on the precocious child. Music, flashbacks. I would say Crazy Stupid Love came a year or two later and really helped nail the coffin in. Cause like the precocious kids in that movie are a nightmare.

Crazy, stupid love is like an earthquake hitting after the city's been destroyed where people were like, yeah, obviously this is bad. Like it's just helping anything. Wait a second. Wait a second.

I'm sorry. I just need to pause the podcast for a moment. Katie, are you saying that you think it is a little bit out of line when an adult gives a child naked photos of herself at the end of a studio rom-com? Is she an adult? She's a teenager, isn't she? She's, it is incredibly inappropriate.

She's like, what, 18 or whatever? Both directions she's going in are inappropriate. She's either like 17 or 18 and she's hitting wildly not steve corral and then at the end goes like you know what the nudes go to his kid because the kid makes a fucking speech is that what i've seen that movie graduation i refuse to remember it like i will not you can't make well it gave us ryan g Gosling and Emma Stone, which like panned out pretty well. Like their parts of the movie hold up.

They do dirty dancing. They hold up okay. I mean, he literally holds her up. Yeah. He does hold her up. It's like he's fucking. Like he's photoshopped.

Photoshopped. Yes. But like. Yeah. But okay. Those movies, those parts do hold up better, but also Ryan Gosling's like playing a toothpick,

chewing sunglasses, wearing. Oh, it's all post-mystery, the game, how to pick up ladies in this club that's just a soundstage and doesn't even try to pretend it's on a soundstage. But I do remember being hyped for that movie. I was like, I love it! Gosling and Stone! I love it! I'm all in! I love it! Give me new, young people to, you know, stand.

Because it also, it felt like Emma Stone was in that pocket that actresses used to be in where they're like, they're just waiting for a great rom-com. Like not,

not that that's the end all, be all of their career, but it's one of the pillars you need to establish. It's the never ending advice that people give to Jennifer Lawrence. It's like, why hasn't she done a rom-com?

Right. Because they don't exist and she doesn't want to make a Netflix movie. Listen, I think we all know the missing element of Crazy Stupid Love, which is jazz. Mmm, yes. Wow. Well. No, but this is the other thing with Crazy Stupid Love is, like, people were so eager to see Emma Stone finally get a rom-com.

And people were like, finally, Ryan Gosling isn't fighting against the fact that he's a movie star. Yes. That was a big problem for him for a long time. But then he was like, yeah, but I'm going to do a Bronx accent though. You're like, all right, Gosling. Give me all of that you got. He's done that like four or five times though. Like to the point that you wonder if he thinks that's his real accent

from Hamilton, Ontario where he grew up. This is what I like about him. I have seen him in interviews say, when I was young and i was a child actor i thought my voice sounded lame and all the guys i thought were cool in movies had new york voices so i trained myself to talk like that and now i i don't even like it doesn't even feel like it's me putting on a voice anymore like he owns up to it being bullshit that makes me feel sorry for child actors again like ryan gosling very talented maybe would have been better off he'd started when he was 18 he was in the

minky mouth club yeah with justin timberlake and britney spears right around the time of uh the sleepless in seattle oh is that the movie we're talking about i think this is what you're proposing katie what you're proposing for child actors is children are allowed to be in movies and be great and then they can only do one job yeah you're allowed to do one job before you're 18 maybe you get to be in one movie you get to be in one movie you get to do like eight tv guest spots oh yeah one series for under two seasons like it's like it's a different like it's like a punch card but you're only allowed to do a certain amount of work before you're 18 and then you gotta go sit on the fucking bench go to school

go to prom don't be famous don't go to the oscars and if you like don't want to go to college and start acting like i think you can go for it uh but otherwise it's just too risky there's too many bad versions of the story i want to be a child actor so badly and i am so happy it didn't happen well gabby hoffman actually i think she had like her childhood was very strained and she is now a like very you know great adult actor like she's turned out pretty well but i think she's talked about how like weird her childhood was well her mom was like a warhol superstar right her dad was a soap opera actor was that her name viva hoffman or whatever viva viva was her name but like her last name was hoffman um and yeah she's like a weird kid who

lived in the chelsea hotel like i mean it makes sense that she is completely great on camera because you're like yeah this kid is a performer she's a born performer and she's been talking to adults her whole yeah and she's i mean she's great and this is our life in a very different role she's playing more of a sweet like kind of um you know shy kid and in this she's playing a bat i mean when i was a kid all right so i saw this movie when i was like seven years old i thought she was the coolest oh my god of course she did yeah she had access to a computer where she could just get plane tickets and she does acronyms

but she also has a big gap where she kind of disappears i mean she was like huge child star huge in the 90s and then she does like you can count on me in 2000 does one movie in 2001 that i haven't heard of then doesn't do something until 2007 that I haven't heard of, then doesn't do something until 2007 that I haven't heard of. And then a Todd Sollins movie in 2009. It's like post 2010, she comes back. Yeah, transparent.

She barely acts in the 2000s. Yeah. Wait, what, sorry, what, what, what brings her back?

Transparent is the thing that like brings her back. No, girls as well. But yeah, yes. And I remember seeing her and being like, who's this? And and being like, who's this? And then being like, oh, it's the kid from like Sleepless in Seattle.

From now and then in Field of Dreams. She's so great in freaking Obvious Child. It was that like 2014. She was just suddenly like back. Right. And she does. I mean, like she does in the early 2000s, Private Practice, Good Wife, Homeland, Louis, one episode of each. Sure, popping in. And eight episodes of Girls.

So she just knows everybody in New York. Is that same year? And she's like, hey, what do you think? Yeah, I decided I want to act again. Yeah. Like, she seems like someone who maybe took the healthy time off to be like, let me, like, work on myself. I'm sure she's talked about it. She's had, yeah, she's been through it all.

But she's great. And she's the even more precocious child in this. Super precocious. Like, I think this shouldn't work. I mean, they dole her out. They bring in a heightening. They dole her out. And she kind of makes sense.

I feel like if you're a parent, I feel like maybe, Katie, you're about to reach this point where your kid starts making friends and like one of your kid's friends, you're like, oh, that kid's funny. Like, that kid is the grown-up kid grown-up kid the kid who talks to adults all day well like in like the scene where like they're in the egg chair and like tom hanks closes the door and they like

cracks it because he's like he doesn't think they're gonna like make out like they're not old enough for that but he's like i'm keeping an eye on what's going on here did it occur to you guys how much like between this and home alone which is like all the rage at this point, like this concept of children flying by themselves in New York City is like in real life completely terrifying

and they're like, nah, it's fine. This, Melanie jokes about this is like it's the dawn of kid independence. Like before then, kids can't do anything.

Yeah. Well, and also, blank check, the movie is 1994. Yeah. 94, I think. Yeah. Right, this is the era where everyone's latching on to this idea of like a kid with a computer can do

anything if you give a kid with a computer they can rewire right it's like you have like war games in the 80s and then by the 90s they're like now everyone has a computer in their home and kids are 8 and if you give them a keyboard and a credit card number why they could buy a mansion

so this movie begins and i'm taking us into the plot because i we're gonna do it um the movie begins with the funeral of sam's sam's wife right we're in chicago it's such a good opening it's a great opening yeah and it establishes such a clear rhythm right off the bat well and like the pan up to reveal the chicago skyline it's like magical in this way where they're on this like big beautiful hill in a cemetery and it's like whoa i don't know where that place is in real life i assume it's really a cemetery so it establishes this like beauty and like it's like a glossy movie but it's got this really like heartbreaking thing happening in the beginning of it and same with his office and i think the next scene yes well you have those three scenes at the beginning that

feel like they're scenes from the end of another movie they are not traditional introductory scenes not just in terms of what's happening story-wise but even just how like uh dramatically you are dropped into relationships and emotions and sort of vernacular between these people and it moves pretty fast i think that's effron's skill as a screenwriter she's like let's cut the boring shit out let's just like do the good scenes writer she's like let's cut the boring shit out let's just like do the good scenes yeah right um and you're that's what she's doing yeah there's the funeral there's the scene in the office where he kind of snaps at his boss and his boss is like what are you gonna do garber early garber garber is just oh i watched this the same night as the sonheim tribute so i was like watching this and like pausing to see what was going on the Sondheim tribute.

And Victor Garber shows up in the Sondheim thing and his mustache. You guys have seen this. Like his quarantine mustache is incredible. And then like seeing him in this when he's like younger, but still like a silver fox. Man, snack. Just imagine if he was your best friend. Wouldn't you just thank God every single day? You just wake up and thank the angels that they blessed you with jennifer garner his best

friend yeah well yeah i'm saying the aisle at her wedding to ben affleck yeah well then i'm sure i hope she thanks the gods she should but i'm saying you know um like just just very comforting how lucky hanks is um here's a thought i had watching this movie because the other friend is rita wilson of course tom hanks's real life wife she's she's great there is there is a certain visual similarity between rita wilson and meg ryan yeah there the scene when she's in the car the whole extended sequence of her in the car listening to the radio broadcast i kept on whether it was the car, the whole extended sequence of her in the car listening to the radio broadcast, I kept on, whether it was the angle

or the lighting or whatever, going, there's a certain, and the fact that Rita Wilson's in the same movie that I had just seen her face, but I was like, there's a certain similarity between the two of them, and I wonder if some unconscious level, that's why Hanks and Meg Ryan work so well together,

even though they barely have any screen time together. Well, they had been in Joe versus the volcano. Yes. Um, so there's that. Well, Rita Wilson's also supposed to look like the bad girlfriend. Like there's the whole plot point about her hair looking the same,

which is a, uh, yeah, that hair. Did you guys, my mom had that hair at this period. I don't know if you guys had people in your life who had the triangle curls on top of their head.

Definitely. Yes. It was a look. It worked then somehow my mom had like like dana barrett like like post-possession ghostbusters she was blonde but had the like just the mountain like gene simmons like present day it was insane it looked so heavy that's a lot to maintain yes i can't even imagine yeah it's funny that the the sort of size and billowy you know like big glasses a lot of that stuff from our youth is back but the hair has not returned at all no but meg ryan's hair in this movie it is such a spectacular like creature unto itself i mean david your zoom background right now is her hair is like

the width of her head like behind her shoulders in the poster it's huge like because often she like wears it up and she's got like ponytails like very pretty long ponytails yeah yeah yeah that long braid um but anyway so after the he snaps at his boss and his boss like what are you gonna do and he's like, I don't know. I guess I have to move to Seattle with my child. Get the fuck out of here. Yes. Jonah calls the radio show and Meg Ryan is introducing Bill Pullman to her.

Or is telling her parents that she's engaged to Bill Pullman. Like, we're right in it. But David, they also introduce the model of the united states that little globe which they introduce over the open yeah they like it's like a map they pull down it kind of clicks down no i'm saying the model that nor ephron uses for insert shots that is my virtual i know what you're talking about it clicks down there's a sort of a it pulls down i love i love the visual of it pulling down i have seen this this movie, Griffin, a hundred times. Fair enough.

Griffin, you watched it an hour ago. You should remember. I recorded it off the BBC onto a videotape, and I would watch it over and over and over again to the point that my mom was confused, I would say. Because I remember my mom, when I was eight or nine, being like, yeah, that's kind of like a chick movie. Like not in a bad way, but just sort of being like, it's interesting that that's the one you've keyed into.

Like a sort of like slightly more grown up comedy. You know, I'm surprised because there's no kissing in it, David. And as we know, you love kissing. You're right. In fact, not only is there no very little kissing, but when Tom Hanks is kissing someone, Jonah calls the radio to try and stop it. He yells about spiders. We must bring an end to the kissing. Wait, can we talk about her introducing Bill Pullman to her family, though?

That whole scene in that like a beautiful colonial house, like David Hyde Pierce is in it, obviously, which is amazing. in that like beautiful colonial house like David Hyde Pierce is in it obviously which is amazing and it's just so funny it's so Nora Ephron-y of like

all of these old relatives talking to each other in these side conversations and like Bill Pullman like he's introduced as a drip because he's allergic to everything

and you see how she loves him for it even though like everyone is like okay he's the guy yeah and he's so cute like of course

she loves Bill Pullman he's allergic to everything yeah he is very handsome in this movie. He has in a patrician sort of cutie goodness suit. Yeah. But it is a very skilled comedic performance to make it clear why he's kind of lame

while not making it feel like, why did she ever end up? Right, this is like the... He's got to strike a very particular balance this is like the the blueprint for the baxter right like this is the baxter this is the one like obviously there are other versions of this in so many rom-coms but he no one ever did it better he has his three-year you shouldn't marry bill pullman which is sleepless in seattle while you were sleeping and then mr wrong which is the ultimate

she marries bill pullman in that like in that one she's in love with peter gallagher and he's the one who swoops in while peter gallagher's in a coma well but and while you were sleeping she shouldn't marry bill pullman because she she supposedly loved peter gallagher that was her crush so she's sort of like he's sort of like oh well wait maybe but yes use the actual romantically but yes mr wrong the poster is ellen turning to the viewer and going ah at the idea of having to marry bill pullman right i've never seen mr and in that period he plays a president independence day right like it's all within the same that's the same year as mr wrong that's what's so crazy i want to be his wife and die via aliens.

Right. He does this run where there are different versions of it, but three movies in a row, three years in a row, where it's different takes on the perils of marrying Bill Coleman. Why you should show caution. And then he ends that run and he's like, hold on, hold my beer. I'm going to be the president of the United States and stop the alien invasion with my bare fucking hands. Give me a fighter pilot helmet.

Where's my jet? It is funny that he's in Independence Day. Like, objectively. Yeah. Like, it's just kind of funny. Like, Jeff Goldblum, Will Smith. Jeff Goldblum, it's funny too, but he made a lot of action movies. Are you aware that Harvey Fierstein

is in Independence Day? That cast is bananas. But we were talking about this on our Stargate episode that that was part of Emmerich's whole thing and Jurassic Park also popularized this

of like, what if the concept is so big you don't need to cast any box office roles? You cast people who are well established but aren't like really in this zone so it's like will smith's done one action movie he's mostly a sitcom star and a rapper bill pullman is mostly a rom-com baxter right and then jeff goldblum is the most

like blockbuster guy of the group because he had played a scientist as the third lead in one other blockbuster yeah um and then mr wrong was about a man who was so wrong that he's the mister of being wrong i guess i've never has anyone seen mr wrong i mean it's about ellen not wanting to marry a man like before she ever came out it has such like weird symbolism to it it's like you don't need to it's also like a year before she one movie yeah right it's like her one like is ellen a movie star movie the the other movie she's in is like ed tv like i i feel like she's in very few movies um but anyway no in yes in sleepless in seattle he's a man. He is allergic to a lot of things. He definitely, he's definitely very into Meg Ryan.

But they have a sort of a, there's like a routine to their relationship, right? Like with the humidifier and the, you know, the pajamas and the, right? Like she's so good at all that behavioral shorthand and that opening, the introduction scene,

because it's coming after the cold open of like you getting this this quick shot of all of tom hanks's sadness and resetting his life and then right after the credits you get that extended two shot of meg ryan and bill pullman in their separate cars as she's briefing him on all the things not to bring up with her waspy relatives love those those opening credits, by the way. And it's so good because it's like, oh, amazing. But it's that fine line of like, they have really good comedic chemistry as actors, but they don't have good romantic chemistry.

So they're charming enough together that you're not like, why did she ever date him? Because I hate movies in which someone is very close to marrying someone who's either such a monster or so boring. No, you get it. Right. It's like another thing that they just strike the perfect balance. And then, yes, as you said, Katie, she introduces him to the waspiest collection of character actors. It's just like, here's Dana Ivey. Here's Francis Conroy.

She's so funny. Everybody. Oh, man, francis conroy did not know that was coming francis conroy and uh and the husband whoever's playing her husband with their like no you have to take it seriously they're so funny yes i wrote down in my notes harold's allergic to every type of bee. I feel like that is Efron like skewering, like, you know, whatever. I forget. I guess she never married a wasp. There's the two other people

who like over-explain like the Pride of the Yankees thing where it's like, oh, it's referring to whoever. Lou Gehrig, I can't remember who it was. Well, you see, we cut to the other side of the table where two of the older people are like,

it's, he's doing a movie reference. Where he echoes to another part of the table that nin has to process it but then her in the attic with her mom sets up this whole thing that i didn't realize because i had not seen the movie and i'd only heard it talked about as like oh the perfect semi-modern rom-com yeah is that this movie has this weird like scream strain to it where it's also about characters and their relationships to romantic comedies yeah and into a romantic drama right but a fair to remember functions like jamie kennedy in this movie. You mean Jamie Kennedy in Scream? Yes. Like setting out the rules. I was like, the Jamie Kennedy experiment? What was that show about?

Yeah, that movie keeps on X-ing them, Katie. An Affair to Remember, which is like not a big hit at all. Like, sort of like a classic sappy movie, would say rather than a classic move like probably gets remade literally the next year as love affair with warren baity and annette

benning uh yes yes well because an affair to remember is a remake of the original love affair it's been it's like a fucking star is born they keep going to that well um and um wait oh yeah but and then i think thor at love and thunder is gonna be also a loose remake i like when when movies watch movies yeah that's what i'm saying and this movie is constantly in dialogue with that movie yeah and its characters are in dialogue with it. And they're talking about, like, Hanks is the person who's like, life isn't a movie. Like, this isn't how it works. Sometimes you end up dating someone who's kind of boring after you lose the love of your life because it's not going to happen twice.

And Meg Ryan and Rosie O'Donnell are constantly, like, checking this movie and going, like, is that insane to believe in this? Right. It's like, the movie kind of checks is that insane to believe in this? Right. It's like, the movie kind of checks out that I should be crazy right now. The movie's kind of telling me, in this movie, people keep saying, it's a sign, which is a silly thing to say. But arguing over whether or not that's a thing.

Yeah. And specific characters flip-flop on whether or not they believe in signs. It's a whole movie about essentially meg ryan being like am i crazy whereas tom hanks because she does when you've got mail she repeats the trick right it's like there's going to be two characters in parallel who don't really meet each other of course they do meet each other and you've got mail but they don't know who they are blah blah blah right but like that the cheat code of you've got mail is you don't know who they are blah blah blah right but like that the cheat code of you've got mail is you keep them not realizing the identities while also giving them a lot of

scenes right exactly but in sleepless in seattle not only do they not meet tom hanks doesn't even think about meg ryan at all for the entire running time of the film save for two seconds when he sees her in an airport basically and that's you know and in the street and in the street where he's like this is the hottest woman i've ever seen in my life and then i guess she's really hot to talk about she is really hot she's incredible we're gonna talk about it but like meg ryan is spending the whole time being like am i crazy i think i'm in love with this guy should i get married to bill pal Pullman? Should I go to New York? Should I watch him and his child on a boat? Should I do that?

Whereas Tom Hanks is like, jeez, dating, the dating world has changed slightly and like, I don't know, my kid's being a pain. Like, it's just not on his mind. And he's talking to his dead wife.

Yeah, and he talks to Carrie Lowell, who I love. And again, as a movie to watch as a kid growing up, especially as like a girl having crush on boys, like all of middle school is being like, Oh my God,

well, he walked past me in the hallway and like, he didn't really look at me. I don't know. And they're all like, wait, who was that? Like,

like this is exactly all of young relationships is like, the girls are obsessing and the boy is like, I gotta go. I'm, I got soccer practice. And Jonah, Jonah, I was the opposite.

Jonah only wants... His big reason for being in on Annie, because when he reads the letters, he's like, this girl Annie, she's great, is because she mentions the Baltimore Orioles in her letter. He's like, wow, she seems pretty cool. But that's another magic trick of this movie is that he's on two tracks.

One track is anytime the son mentions the letter he's like get that fucking letter out of my face i don't even want to talk about it i'm not paying it any mind it is not even anywhere within my range of vision and then the other track is two times i saw this lady who literally made my breath stop that's a thing in my back of my mind but those two things are in no way followed through an airport i'm aware and then there are these sort of moments like what you're saying with the apple griffin where like he'll say something about his wife and then we see meg ryan kind of echoing the behavior and it's sort of like oh yeah they there's something here that they they're like entangled in a way they don't understand well even like the poster which

is your zoom background right now, is the two of them in two different locations, both staring off into the distance. And they're not in the same space, but it sort of looks like they're looking at each other. It's very somewhere out there. Yeah, it's a really good cross-cutting movie. I mean, she's very smart without being like

too clever about it, about putting those scenes, the scenes of them separate in interesting uh contrast with each other there's a part where um the boy says that like gabby hoffman's character told him that they met in past lives yes that whole yeah i just really liked how it was like a dumb kid thing to say, but I like love the sentiment of it. Yeah. Cause this movie is like, they don't know each other. They don't know what they're meant to be together, but like, it kind of argues like, you don't know who you're meant

to be with until you meet them. So like, maybe they are doing all these behaviors that you're going to fall in love with someday, but you don't know about them yet. Like it sets them up as compatible without ever having to put them in the same place. Right. You just need an eight-year-old boy to fly across the country and make it happen. Endanger himself.

Yes. World's best wingman. It's a difficult balancing act. with a nice lady. It is a thing like the confidence of this movie

to A, understand if you're gonna make this premise work, you really have to put aside some space for the titular radio call right like it's it's long and the movie really like slows down but also most of that scene plays out of with her listening to it i mean there is so much more footage of her listening to it without any cuts

in her car than of him on the phone. Because you have to buy that she would be that affected by it. Oh, I was just going to say,

and a small detail I like is that she goes to say like the same responses that he ends up saying. Yeah. So they time out and those are the first little kismet things

that happen. Also, brief shout out to, um, uh, to her, they time out and those are the first little kismet things that happen yeah also a brief shout out to um uh to her and it's similar to jerry mcguire where he's listening to the radio where she's like trying to figure out what to listen to and she just goes along with this horrible verse of dingaballs going horses horses horses horses horses horses horses but no we've all had that experience where you're like all right i guess i'm listening to this and then you are emotionally involved like which is what is happening to her like it's just she stops in the diner and they're all like whoo right it's like some 90s version of going viral where everyone's

like get a load of this this guy's such a sweetie i feel so bad like he's freaking papa with the burger like everyone's just like god get the guy a wife. Oh, his kid. Oh. But also the way they explain it. I mean, I think what she has to explain to her coworkers, and she's like, here's this guy. His kid calls up.

That's already weird. It's clear he doesn't even know he's on the air, doesn't want to be on the air, and then suddenly, out of nowhere, he just opens up with so much vulnerability

explaining all the reasons why he loved his wife and there's this sort of men are from mars women are from venus stuff going on there right where it's kind of like hey god a man being emotional like there's nothing like it and then like when hanks is talking to reiner and reiner's like you split the check now and he's like well whoa whoa split the check get out of here like i'm going to do that and you have to get coffee where he brings up tiramisu he's like what's tiramisu a woman's going to want me to do it to her and I'm not going to know what it is trust me you're going to love it

Reiner's great in this give me three scenes of Reiner in anything like because in like Wolf of Wall Street like you know it's always great when he just pops in another great line in that scene is just when they're complimenting Tom Hanks' butt. Of course. And he's like, yeah, it's a thing now.

The ladies, they all like a cute butt. And it's like the most scenic Seattle shot of the public market behind them, where it's like all of the Seattle backdrop and Rob Reiner looking at Tom Hanks' butt. Yeah. And he says, are we grading on a curve? Great joke. But it's crazy to think about, like, obviously Reiner started out as an actor,

but he was so dominant as a director at this point. And the fact that he was still doing this many, like, three scenes in a movie role is kind of weird to think about. Yeah. Right?

It could be a little popping. I mean, it's like, what if Denis Vill villeneuve just like several times a year had like three scenes no no no griffin griffin let's follow that through logically what if denny villeneuve was on the defining sitcom of the 70s playing an idiot son for all we know he mightreal translated that right it's like a montreal version of all in the family where it's like denny comes in like oh denny oh he's so yeah i'm saying like what if denny villeneuve had been the dave chapelle part

in a star is born and didn't even know the part and you've got mail doesn't his filmography give you such a sense of a sense of humor? He really just takes things so lightly and wants to see the funny side of life. Look, he's got a feather light touch. I think Arrival had like two jokes, right? I feel like Arrival is like a laugh riot by

his standards. Compared to Prisoners? Yeah, it's his funniest movie, Arrival. Prisoners might be the least funny movie ever made like prisoners is in the running that's actually a really good argument we'll see how james stacks up right blade runner 2049 is fucking airplane compared to prison oh my god anyway reiner yeah i love reiner i it is funny that tom hanks's one friend in seattle is like i guess just another contractor guy like it's funny that they're friends yeah

and then it's rob reiner like the most seattle-y person you can get is rob reiner and they're different like age groups uh it's hard to make friends in a new city and seattle is famous for the Seattle freeze. Like, this is a thing where people move to Seattle and they don't make friends for years because everyone is, like, kind of distant. Like, says they're friendly, but they don't make friends. Sure. I do love that he goes

from architect to contractor. Like, there's this thing of, like, he needs to sort of shake up his life. It happens all off screen, but it's like, I need to move laterally to something that utilizes the skills i've learned but i also need to shift a little i also it's just and again i guess it's partly me as a kid this is like where i learned the contractor joke right we're like with dana ivy where she's like i want to move i want to get a different fridge dana ivy isn't it yeah she's no she's she's the client she's like i want the

fridge and they're like, Oh, well, we're going to have to move this wall. And then they do the, that's three, four, 12 weeks.

Right. Like, and she's like, it just has to be perfect. It doesn't matter. She needs room for her platters. Yeah. Yeah.

And you think of Nora Ephron as a food filmmaker and like, you guys will have time to get into that. Like there's not a ton of food in this movie, but like the idea of a woman being like, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Anyway, so while Tom Hanks is just living his fucking life and trying to muddle on through and figure out dating and raise a son, Meg Ryan is having a nervous breakdown and talking to everyone she knows like David. I love that early convo with David Hyde Pierce, where she's like, I need Seattle. And he's like, it rains all the time in Seattle. And she's like, I know. Oh, why would I want to do this?

Like she's doing that. But she's also like, she's testing out David Hyde Pierce is like, I need a best friend in my romantic comedy to encourage me to take the wild flights of fancy and david hyde pierce is like i don't know i married her because she said it was time i either had to marry her or we'd break up and rosie o'donnell has had this horrible romantic history like every little snippet of a story you get is so catastrophic but she's like i don't know go to see him like everything about her is like yeah why not um yeah she's she's sort of um the i feel like everyone has that friend like where it's like they just got waylaid by this bad relationship that they can't shake

right like where it's like everything comes back to the bad the bad guy and it's such a convenient excuse for her as she does her insane behavior she's like ah rick he came back up again he was on the radio i don't know what to tell you right right yeah the uh her being caught in the cupboard with the phone that's very you know and the like little white radio that she's like clutching to her chest yeah griffin's drinking his rose and they cross cut that with the sun that's the kiss screaming and her screaming right because that's that's his his uh return to the radio is is when when jonah complains about the kissing like aside from it being a film shot by sven nyquist the movie is deceptively cinematic in how much it relies on editing in that way.

Because it's about establishing a feeling of connection between two people who do not share a frame, really, until an hour in, and then don't again until the end of the second hour. And you think about what we were saying earlier about her peeling the apple, which I think is happening around the same time in the movie. I think she peels the apple, and then another scene happens and then he brings it up.

Like, it gives you just enough time to not think about it. And then he says, if you're like, it like dings this faint bell so that it feels like you're discovering it along with them rather than having the filmmaker being like, hey, look at these two. No, it's I think it just she has the confidence to uh trust that the audience will do the math themselves and that they will fall in love with these people so she doesn't hammer it too hard she doesn't underline things too heavily um and she knows they're on the poster and they're gonna fall in love so she gets she gets the genre she's in. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, it is still a crazy gambit. And I feel like at the time, people kind of, you know, this movie was a huge hit.

It was well-received. It got Oscar nominations. But it wasn't like a consensus critical favorite because most reviews are like, it's so contrived. Like, you won't believe the premise on this thing whereas now i feel like people will be like yeah fuck it who cares i don't know you know like it's a classic well and it's like there's a huge part of it is a scene of her basically google stalking him where she's using the like whatever lexus nexus she's using lexus nexus that's the thing now that

wouldn't seem as creepy because she would literally just Google and Facebook him. But back then it's, it looks like she's doing a fucking CIA investigation. She doesn't actually, she sends a PI after him, which is crazy. She faxes a private investigator. Ben, sometimes you gotta, you gotta bust out the fax machine.

Okay. For love, man. Yeah. Like this kind of feels like the movie that, uh, all about Steve is most written on. I was thinking that, but that's a scenario where Sandra Bullock, it never sells that she's charming.

She's just psychotic. Well, that's the premise is like what in real life this would be upsetting. Right. Right. But I'm assuming they end up together anyway. I don't know. Her and Bradley Cooper. I don't think they do.

I think she ends up with someone else. I've seen that movie. Yeah, she, no, no. At the end of the day, she realizes that he should end up with whoever

and she's going to look for someone she actually likes, not Steve. She's no longer all about Steve. I mean, Thomas Hayden Church is in the movie, but I believe

he is just a villain. And Ken Jeong is in the movie. I don't he is just a villain. And Ken Jeong is in the movie. It actually goes with him. Sandra Bullock doesn't get taken to church at the end of that film? I guess he's just her friend. He's just her friend.

Who's like, yeah, go bother Steve. He's the Rosie O'Donnell. Yeah, misguided Rosieie o'donnell all about steve that was i feel like that movie only because she won the razzie and the oscar the same year right wasn't that it yeah yeah right yes yeah all about steve is like a movie that only comes up when you're playing like trivia in a bar and they're trying to like going through sandra bullock's career and everyone was that the same. Was that the same year as The Proposal 2? Yes.

That's the thing. It's sandwiched in between. She had been made earlier. For a number of years. But she makes two humongous hits in 2009. Her career rebounds so hard and then quietly sandwiched in between the two of them is all about Steve. Yeah.

It's like Proposal in June, Blindside in November, all about Steve. Yeah. Like it's like Proposal in June, Blindside in November, all about Steve in August. Here's the thing I want to say about Sleepless in Seattle. What you were saying about it not being super respected at the time. I've been watching a lot of The Critic.

That has been my binge this week of watching all of the 90s primetime animated sitcom The Critic. It stinks. There are several episodes where they have extended anti-sleepless in Seattle riffs. And obviously the point of that show is that

character is the super cynical. The highfalutin. He thinks all mainstream films are trash. But they like go, like there's, I'm trying to remember what the bit is. Oh no, do you know what it is? The Ebert, the Siskel and Ebert episode. Where Siskel and Ebert split up, and Jay Sherman thinks this is an opportunity

to become partner to either Siskel or Ebert, because now they're each going to have their own show. And what he realizes is they should really be together. So he functions like the sun and reunites Siskel and Ebert atop the Empire State Building. I mean, that sounds pretty funny. That's a good idea. But it's a great episode.

But at the end of it, they're like, oh, God, this is so contrived. Straight out of Sleepless in Seattle, which itself was stolen from A Fair to Remember, which wasn't even that good of a movie to begin with. And they say that in unison. And that's what makes them realize that they belong together. But it's like a joke that like we all agree that this movie's contrived it's pulling so much from this other film and it's so cliched and now i do think like this movie would would fucking i mean it did get a

screenplay nomination it got a screenplay nomination and best um original song for wink and a smile which is a great song by mark shaman um and and this is a movie still of the day nor efron embodies this but like that kind of michael feinstein piano bar type score right this sort of like great american songbook shit i love it i mean give me all of it you can with uh as time goes by to being like hey guys, guys, here's the song, you know, from Casablanca. We're going to put ourselves right next to it. Like it is really calling your shot. Absolutely.

I'm looking at what else is on. I mean, you have Jimmy Durante, Louis Armstrong, Nat King Cole, Dr. John, Gene Autry, Joe Cocker, Tammy Wynette. Like you have the couple where it's like, okay, of course, there's a Celine Dion track, Carly Simon, Ricky Lee Jones, Harry Connick Jr. But the other ones on the soundtrack are not songs you expect, or at least not singers you expect in a 90s rock. Right. Yeah, the score is very like old school,

like big bandy kind of. And then it like eventually veers into like jaunty like 90s caper stuff and it's it's a little weird the contrast between the two but also i'll love to mark shaman i'm not going to disrespect his name on this podcast uh yeah i think there's two versions of we small hours in the morning they do like the original and then it's like oh there's the 90s upgrade i just want to quote from roger ebert's review where he said the film was as ephemeral as a talk show, as contrived as the late show, yet so warm and gentle I smiled the whole way through. But that's like more generous than most.

Yeah. Most of them are saying like, this is contrived. I don't know. I guess it works. I mean, basically, like, I think critics were very resistant to love story type movies, right? Where they're like, this is, this is Vox populized shit. This is, you know, whatever. It's fine. This is a good version of it, but we're not going to take it too seriously. We just don't take this genre very

seriously. Next question, right? Like, you know, I get that it's a well-executed version of it, but we don't take it seriously. And now people are like, it's a lost art. We don't make these things anymore. They were gems. Yeah, that never really changes until rom-coms just go away entirely. Like, I'm trying to even think of how critics treated the last big rom-com to open from a studio, and it probably got ignored. It might not have been very good.

Right. I mean, what was the last good studio theatrically released romcom that was like a hit yeah Crazy Stupid Love obviously yeah I mean I'm looking here and it's like I did the Google search romcoms 2010s and the top

results it gives me are Big Sick, Crazy Rich Asians, About Time Silver Linings Playbook, Crazy Stupid Love Big Sick is probably the best example in there. Totally. Big Sick is a really good one. Crazy Rich Asians did really well. Crazy Rich Asians is sort of like a

quasi-rom-com. That's actually kind of like a high comedy. But it's got romance. It's got romance. Silver Linings Playbook I don't feel like counts. No. Also, that was 2012. It's been a while. That's kind of a drama it was such a big yeah it was a hit yeah um but yeah i guess that's jennifer lawrence's rom-com i guess i mean i last year i was a big fan of last christmas which kind of got completely ignored didn't not make money i mean it did okay it made everyone so

mad because of its twist yeah but the twist is good and that movie's good i think people will come around to that did you see last christmas griff did you go come on i i did not that's henry golding right yeah henry golding and amelia clark no because i was busy uh yeah i was busy last christmas i gave you my heart um i'm looking how do you uh i, train someone out of a zoom meeting. I'm sorry. I just, okay.

Okay. Uh, a train wreck counts as like a pretty traditional. Oh yeah. That was a hit and was well reviewed, but it's even crazy just to like, look over as I'm looking at this list. And so many of the results that come up are like

indie comedies there are things like enough said and love them uh you know sleeping with other people which is my pick for the best that's a good one too 2010s um celeste and jesse forever what have you but it's crazy to think like oh right at the beginning of last decade you had friends with benefits and no strings attached right like it was still fertile enough that you had those two come out within six months of each other in 2011 and there were like four big stars who they were like i don't know rom-com what's the right parent yeah something is weird it's like the dilemma the ron howard movie where it's like right yeah kevin james Winona Ryder married to each other in that movie.

Kevin. Correct. And then Vince Vaughn and Jennifer. And Channing Tatum in his first really funny role that I always give myself credit for noticing and being like, hmm, he might go somewhere. And then now who knows where he's going to go next. But Queen Latifah plays Vince Vaughn's boss. Everything about the dilemma is insane. The dilemma is similar timing to like Couples Retreat.

There's that sort of last gasp. These movies that did well, like Couples Retreat was an unambiguous hit, but like no one really remembers them. But it's like people on a poster and they're back to back like this with their arms crossed. Yeah, exactly.

But see, I would file that under. Proposal for sure, obviously. But see, Proposal I, is a proper rom-com. I think the other movies you just listed are comedies about couples. Yes, you're right. I think the two think like a man movies. They're not about courtship, which I think is like a key element of a good rom-com. I'm realizing why the rom-com died, guys.

Because in 2009, Robert Luketic told us the ugly truth about love. Catherine Heigl and Gerard Butler. And that was that. Catherine Heigl really was unfortunately there at the end. Heigl and Kutcher helped really bury this genre because they tried to take it over because everyone else was busy doing whatever, you know,

your dramas and your superheroes. And so Heigl and Kutcher were like we're here we're putting up stakes we're gonna give you one of these a year and pretty quickly people were like okay anyone else got anything and they were like also let's not discount gary marshall's role in this whole thing speaking of like you know 70s sitcom legends he he did a bad bad job that it's true it's true but in the ugly truth, if you think about it, the heart, the lady holds the heart. Up here, the man holds the heart.

Griffin, have you seen the poster where he holds it? It's over his pee-pee. He's saying his heart is inside his pee-pee. And what do you think that is? Is that the lovely truth? No, it's the ugly truth. I don't find that truth very pretty at all. I do think, no, Katie, I think that's a good point that the gary marshall sort of like which then even extends into shit like

he's just not that into you where it's like the anthology it creates an artificial inflation where then two big movie stars falling in love together feels small it's like five minutes in a movie right right you're like gary marshall's knocking that down before the opening credits and then he's giving you another i also i have no beef with him but it is crazy those movies are literally just him being like yeah you know it's a bunch of bullshit we're gonna do it 20 times in one movie you'll love it like it's him like shitting on his own genre. Yes. And then they get something like, like A Star is Born is not a rom-com,

but like that movie comes out and like, you know, David and I saw that together trying to film festival and we're like, a movie, what a movie. And then everyone else is like, okay. But like you watch these two gorgeous,

famous people fall in love. You're like, what? What is this witchcraft I'm watching on screen? Cause everyone forgot you could do it. There still kind of is nothing more effective than watching two beautiful people fall in love in a movie. There is nothing better.

And Sleepless in Seattle is like, I'm going to give you a fucking sliver of that. You're going to get one minute of that and you're going to walk out happy. And you're going to cry so hard when it happens. It is the most exquisite edging it's noradron just like swirling you're not gonna get anything yes to the extent that in the empire state building like there's you know like she's getting in the elevator he's getting out of the you know you're like wait are

they gonna do it oh my god it's designed for the audience at the theater to be going like come on you know like you know come come on, they gotta do it. Right. So even when they make eye contact for like uninterrupted one minute, you're like, this is the hottest thing I've ever seen. Right. Because there's like, there are X factors here. I am violently single.

I am quarantining completely alone. I'm reassessing my entire life. But suddenly Tom hanks and meg ryan hold hands atop the empire state building and i am sorry like it happened instantly instantly and i was like i guess it's time for skywalker wine i guess it's that night it's like you're everything's coming to a head she's a fucking plumber you're a radiator and she's just like oh i know what to do she the one thing and you're just like water spewing everywhere. Clank.

So what happens in this movie? One thing that you clearly want to talk about is as she grows obsessed, she Googled, she Lexus Nexus is him. She goes to Seattle under the guise of writing a story about this and looks upon him. May we pause for a moment that she's like, I need to write a story in Seattle.

And her friend knows it's a run. It's like, no, we'll spend the budget to send you to Seattle for no good reason. What a glorious time for journalism. It's such a great rom-com friend line where she's like, if you're going to write that story, you'd probably have to travel there.

I mean, if you really want to do this story properly, the wing woman, everyone deserves. Yeah everyone deserves yeah to dive into the camera um but so clearly i think a hang up for ben he keeps going to it there's the scene where she just looks at him and his kid across the street it's creepy she's the watcher she She's Keanu Reeves. If I did that right now, I would be arrested. Yes. She's the peeper. Absolutely.

No, the Bechdel cast talks a lot about the Buscemi test and like basically you just replace a character in a movie with Steve Buscemi. And if it seems bad

when he's doing it, then it's probably still creepy. This whole movie falls apart. But I'll say this movie might actually survive the chappy test as proposed by bilga repeat the premise of the chappy test griffin for viewers who may not the premise of the chappy test is is is a film great enough that it could survive having Chappie in it? Now, it hasn't been outlined. There's no forced rule about how you have to use Chappie.

It's more just, is a film strong enough that you could put Chappie in there somewhere? I think that part of the premise is that Chappie is so insane that even one minute of him would throw a movie off. Right, right. So you're like, could Chappie be Meg Ryan's aunt when she introduces her family to Bill Or like an employee of the Baltimore Sun? Like, I can see that. Right. Right.

Could he be one of the other contractors with Tom Hanks and Rob Reiner? I think Chappie could survive this. Now, I think Chappie standing across the street staring at Tom hanks and his son would immediately become a horror movie but chappy could chappy could be a day player in this film and it would still be like the car goes by and he's suddenly there yeah i am chappy chappy loves mommy you're a dickhead i'm chappy chappy does she goes to seattle it's important to say nora writes herself out of that scene so awkwardly you're like wow they're making eye contact all she has to seattle it's important to say nora writes herself out of that scene so awkwardly you're like wow they're making eye contact all she has to do is cross the street

and it's like it's too soon for them to interact so um she's just gonna turn around and fly back well that's right you just cut to rosie o'donnell saying and what happened next when i came back i mean it's that thing of her she's just pushing the boundary of what is not insane. Right? Like first listening and like listening on the phone or whatever. That's kind of crazy. She does that. She goes and looks at him,

but she can't because it would just be too crazy to be like, I heard you on the radio. Like, you know, like what's your opening line? That's her realizing it. Like it's her like walking up to the brink and then stepping herself back. We'd be like, okay, all right, we're going to do this in a more normal way.

I mean, couldn't she just like wait till he gets home and then knock on his door and be like, I'm a reporter and then flirt and then go from there. She's not using her like reporter cover. But that would taint. That would taint the love. He would immediately be like, I don't want to talk to a reporter. And then that's it. Yeah, it would feel gross. Or then she would have to do the rom-com thing

where it's like, I lied to you, but that was before I knew I loved you. I'm so happy they avoid that. I was so certain that's where the movie was going. It is though, just like, the more I'm thinking about it, for how much this movie was written off as like, oh, it's effective,

but it's just like classic formula. It's so manipulative. This movie is such off as like, oh, it's effective, but it's just like classic formula. It's so manipulative. This movie is such like an insane experiment to being like, OK, so we all know rom coms are about two actors together. Right. What if we make a movie where that almost never happens? And not only that, it's not even like they're like they have a correspond. Right. They're not on the phone.

They're just they're barely interacting. They barely even know that the other one exists for a long chunk of it in a concrete way and he's going i mean i guess he's not there because of her but like he gets there and he knows that she's written a letter kind of like a crazy person and then puts together that she's like right this gorgeous woman who we followed through an airport but like that's not a lot to go on no and a thing that happens off screen in this movie presumably is him reading many many other letters

you see how big the stack is and they're mostly crazy right he's so dismissive of this one yeah and he also yells about fatal attraction did you see fatal attraction I love that scene. It scared the hell out of me. It scared the shit out of me.

Every man in America. Or the way he delivers a line like this. She looks like my fifth grade teacher. She is my fifth grade teacher. And like, I don't know if it really

is his fifth grade teacher, but it's so funny the way he does it. He is so funny. Oh my God. He's so funny. God, he's funny. I love Tom Hanks.

Can we talk about how weird Tom Hanks' face is for such a major movie star? He's very long in this movie. Long and thin. It's sort of like his Philadelphia build, I guess. He's still pretty skinny. He's got the Howie Mandel, 80s Peter Newman hair. But also-

He's coiffed up. For how long he is, he's a skinny man. He's a tall man. he's got a long face every individual feature on his face is round like that's a weird thing about tom hanks is that his face is not round but he's got this rounded nose he's got very rounded he's got soft his cheeks are kind of round right his eyes are very circular like every individual piece of him is round but it doesn't really feel like a face that should come together and he is like not traditionally handsome but he also doesn't look like a classic comedy star he's got such a unique look there's that lingering shot

on like a cameo on a valentine's box of chocolate like and like the window outside meg ryan's apartment where it's like two faces in silhouette and you're like not supposed to get that it's Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan you're like no I know that no it's like I know exactly whose profile

that's supposed to be that was on the IMDB trivia page it was literally like the silhouettes are supposed to be Tom Hanks and I was like

of course it is yeah like no one else has ever looked like Tom Hanks other than Jim Hanks Tom Hanks' brother who does the bonus voiceover work for ever looked like Tom Hanks Other than Jim Hanks Tom Hanks' brother Who does the bonus voiceover work for Toy Story

And Colin Hanks who is his looper Yes Sure but Colin Hanks looks a little More I don't want to say normal No he's a little more straightforwardly handsome Yes he's a little more every man In his facial features

Hanks is not a guy that you would look at and be like, this is going to be Hollywood's hottest guy. But then in classic Hollywood, there are this sort of like Glenn Ford, Gary Cooper guys, where you're like, of course, they're good looking guys. Jimmy Stewart. But this is not like a hottie exactly. This is like a

sort of interesting striking you know like he's a good looking man he's a he's a handsome man um gary marshall of all people because i he never directed hanks did he uh let's see penny did uh did gary right uh maybe i remember seeing some interview where Gary Marshall was talking about Tom Hanks and he said Tom Hanks was like an actor who with no vanity will say like, hey, here are the five angles to never shoot me from. Like, I'm giving you like some help here. Like, this is a helpful tip.

You're not going to be able to use the shot. Your lens will break. I'm warning you now. Right. I'm now trying to. Right, but he was like, there was, it wasn't like a Streisand, like never shoot me like this. It was like, just so you know, if you shoot me from here, I will look so goofy. Like the guy is aware that his face balances on like such a razor's edge as a leading man.

I don't, I can't find anything that he would have ever directed him in. I don't think he did. I feel like I'm spacing on something, like maybe a TV show, but I don't think so. Oh, it must have been a TV thing. I guarantee you it was a TV thing. I think he did a Happy Days early on. Maybe he did a Happy Days. He made appearances on Gary Marshall sitcoms.

Right, he must have. 100%, that's what it was. Yeah, he was on a Happy Days. He was on like one Happy Days. So he knew his angles even back then. Yeah. I mean, look, in a way, that's maybe what made on a Happy Days. He was on like one Happy Days. So he knew his angles even back then. Yeah. I mean, look, in a way, that's maybe what made him a movie star.

He just had that weird sense about himself. I mean, I feel like one of the defining things of a really successful movie star is someone who just has such a good sense of how they play. I mean, he... Like they are so aware of their own instrument.

Yes. You know? Yes, I agree with that. And Like, they are so aware of their own instrument. Yes. You know? Yes. I agree with that. And hey, Tom Hanks got a great instrument. Got a great instrument. Wait, I don't want to move

too far in the plot, and I don't know if we're here yet, David, but can we talk about the scene with Victor Garber and Rita Wilson at the dinner table where they talk about

an affair to remember in the Dirty Dozen? They talk about in the Dirty Dozen? I love that scene. I just need to... I need to pause for one second because of course gary marshall did in fact direct the tom hanks jackie gleason two-hander nothing in common oh there you go i'm so i remember see i knew there was now we can move on

i knew there was something um but yes the scene that scene when i was a kid i thought it was the funniest thing in the world um you don't think it's the funniest thing in the world now it holds up for me it holds up great i mean just garber and hanks just doing the dirty dozen naming every character actor in the dirty dozen by the way which i love like that's a little imdb game they're playing griffin weigh in yeah no that's also that's the scene that's the most like manna from mars women are yes because it's this like two pillars between wilson and garber and garber is even more cynical and skeptical than hanks is yes and the kid is there too being like girl movie where they kiss.

But it's also just such a funny, immediate reversal. Like, it's just like going directly to them. And the look on Rita Wilson's face, like says everything being like, oh, you all think you're immune to movies that like, like hit you in your heart. Like, there you go. But I love that a fair to remember is so this like weird universal language. Because that's right. He's brought up the letter, the Empire State Building thing. And she's just immediately like a fair to remember is so this like weird universal language because they that's he right he's brought up the letter the empire state building thing and she's just immediately like a fair to remember i know i of course i know what that is like yeah like it's it's it's like nonsense to them well we talked about this earlier but like think about how many different rom-coms or films with romantic subplots from the last 20 years all use

Dirty Dancing as shorthand, you know? Like, it feels like they're constantly riffing on or referencing the same four or five movies. And this film benefits from picking a very specific film that is not like the most popular love story of all time it's not casablanca it's not something that's been like memed to death by other movies so so it also means it actually like it has some meaning when another character knows the same film they're talking about when another character gets the reference point and of course that's the magic magic that allows her to go up to the Empire State Building because the guy's wife knows that movie.

So he's like, okay, alright, go ahead. Do you have any bombs? You know what? I won't even check. Just go right ahead. Do a lap. Katie, you were saying before we recorded how happy you are not to be in New York City right now.

Understandably. That feels very smug, repeated back to me, but sure. No, no, no, no. But I want to represent this as generously as possible. You are a woman with a family and children and multiple lives to be concerned about with regards to a global pandemic. multiple lives to be concerned about with regards to a global pandemic and new york is like uh uh the worst place to be uh read this disease right now um seeing that that fucking security guard at the empire state building how much did that make you long yeah for new york and also like behind the scenes trivia like the last time i saw you guys in person when i recorded in person we

walked right past the Empire State Building to get wherever it was we were going after the recording because the studio was right there yeah like me like yeah

it's just like the way that it's populated with the taxi driver and the security guard at the Empire State Building like I feel like even someone they're at the Rainbow Room

right with Bill Pullman when they have the view of the Empire State Building yes they're at the Rainbow Room they're at 30 Rock it's like so many iconic locations it rewards so much New York knowledge.

And a lot of New York movies do that, but this isn't a New York movie until the very end, and then you get to it, and it's got this big heart on its sleeve, like the big heart on the Empire State Building for this city. You feel Nora Ephron coming out in it so much. It's her home.

Yeah, I mean, it's such a lovely New York movie. But to get that much such a lovely New York movie. But to get like that much sort of like impactful New York in only 20 minutes at the end of the film. And beyond that. It is crazy. There's the shot where you see her running up to the building. And I was like, oh, right. We used to record two blocks away from the Empire State Building. Did you also notice the guy on rollerblades in the lobby of the Empire State Building?

I think it's when she comes in or when he gets someone, somebody goes past a guy on rollerblades in the lobby of the Empire State Building, which is wonderful. But it is this like we take it for granted because we like live here. I mean, not David, because he grew up in London. But, you know, I spent my entire childhood here. And now we would record our podcast every week, several times a week, like two blocks away. That when a movie represents it like this, you're like, Jesus Christ, the Empire State Building. What a place! When was the last time you went to the top of the Empire State Building? Not since I was like, exactly.

When I was five? Six? Yeah. So you were on vacation in school in london i went when i had a cousin a 10 year old cousin visit um like four or five years ago and i still lived in new york and i went with her to the top of the empire state building like kind of spur of the moment like we went at night it was really cold it was amazing you you've got to go like sometimes too because it's really it holds all of the appeal um that you think it does from watching this movie watching this made me feel like it's one of the first things i want to do when it feels safe it's so it's so funny because i would always walk by it when we were leaving the studio and see like the lines of

people going in and be like jesus Christ. We'd be dismissive. We'd be like, could you imagine going to the top of the empire? Like on my commute every day to those offices, I would like walk in the street and scoff at the tourists, just blocking a sidewalk. Batteries at them. Truly.

Yeah. Put them in a sock and swing it and smack them in the head. Welcome to New York. The Atlantic offices are in Madison Square Park-ish. And you can see the Empire State Building from there. 34th Street, you can't really see it. And you would yell out your window. You would lift your window up and go, get out of here.

I feel like four to five times a year, there's a photo in my photo roll of the empire state building that's me just like walking on the street and being like huh and like taking i would occasionally i would occasionally behold the fact that it was just there and be like what right it's the big building that's the most famous building ever yeah i used to temp uh right across the street from 30 rock and it, but it was over Christmas. So my walk to the train was just me dodging tourists. It really was.

And I hated it. But then there were days I would walk by and I was just like, it's a tree, whatever. And then sometimes I would stop and I was like, this is a really pretty tree. But I'd also like to recommend. It's a tree. It's nice. I would also like to recommend, though, if you don't go, if you choose to go to the Empire State Building, nice. But also if you go to the Top of the Rock tour, it's slightly cheaper.

I always recommend Top of the Rock to tourists because I feel like it's just slightly easier. Less crowded. Yeah. And look, you might get to meet Jimmy in the hallways. You might get to meet Jimmy in the hallway and he'll be like, oh my god, this is amazing! I can't believe Jimmy's in the hallway!

Oh my god, so great to see you! Or you can see the spot where Bill Pullman got his heart broken. That's obviously a spot on the tour. Yeah, definitely. It's just the kind of Baxter-y thing that I feel like is part of what Michael Showalter is mocking with that movie where it's like the guy knows

he's not worthy of her the breakup is so smooth you got more deep pulls I had my shot hey what are you gonna do like I guess I'll just go on out there and marry a different wasp oh yeah well like right I don't know

oh yes well he also says he doesn't want to be settled for you know like that's a that's a real feeling right it makes him transcend past just being a punchline or a plot obstruction because it's like this guy has the emotional intelligence to

understand he doesn't want to be with her because she feels a sense of guilt to not leave him like that is not a happy life he he really like shows a great deal of understanding there um it's a good it's a good fucking scene and i also like that she's like i you i never deserved a guy like you and he's like oh come on i wouldn't say that and she's like no seriously he's like okay i'll take it like he needs the little compliment in the moment yeah right yeah it's just it's just funny because like she shouldn't get away with it but you're so on board with her romance i guess and you're so on board with like look if she's

doing this she doesn't want to marry Bill Pullman. That's what she's avoiding. Isn't it though, isn't it emblematic of the writing like where I feel like, I don't know, I feel like if it was a boy writing it, he would be like, meh, and be really

upset and yell or do some kind of extreme thing. Yeah, like for example, the most toxic flip side of this is like bradley cooper in wedding crashers wedding crashers right or any right but where he's like a sociopath and when she considers leaving him for another guy he like starts punching people you know right yeah like does something that makes it feel more morally justified for her to leave him rather than being like no it's just it's not gonna work but the problem the miscalculation there is then you go like wait but what does it say about rachel mcadams that she was with this guy for so long

anytime a movie does that i'm just like there's a big elephant in a daze has she just not been paying attention to like her general surroundings best case scenario she's got the worst judgment in the world worst case scenario she's complicit she knew she knew they switched the sample whereas like the only time it's okay is like tit where it's just like, no, you have to do this because you must. Titanic. That's a, that's a great setup.

It's like, they're saving the family. But any modern romance in which there is another man and the guy is an asshole. Like they never think about how much it reflects poorly upon the female character, you know? Um, and and and i like that in this it's just like as i as i said before they have good comedic chemistry as actors they just don't

have good romantic chemistry and that is very very well executed so you understand why they're together but you also go i kind of would rather see her with hanks even though they haven't spoken to each other in this movie like i gotta believe that maybe has a little more electricity to it but that's kind of a crazy bitch that's what i'm saying like this movie is i know i love it and it makes you get why the critics were so hard on it because it does the concept is crazy it shouldn't and you're like yeah it shouldn't work and you kind of come out of it being like was i tricked by this like why did i go for this and it takes time to like accept this like no it's just that's that's good filmmaking well yeah it's that thing that like pisses me off when people go like i mean

yeah like i love that movie and it made me cry and i laughed a lot but it's not like a good movie and i want to say like then what is your five star movie i'm like not i'm not saying about this in I love that movie and it made me cry and I laughed a lot. It's not a good movie. And I want to say... It was a five-star movie. I'm not saying about this in particular. I'm saying when people say that about films that they love but they feel like they should be embarrassed by. And I'm like, if you enjoyed the movie on the level that the movie was

intending for you to enjoy it to that extent, then the movie works. You don't have to say it's your favorite movie of all time but don't act like well i like enjoyed it for some other reason i don't think it's good it just completely hit me emotionally in every way it intended to and this is one of those movies where you just kind of gotta get you kind of give it gotta give it up you know something's gotta give someone's gotta give and for me it's a bottle of Skywalker Rose

here's some things Jason Schwartzman auditioned for the role of Jonah whoa he could've done it he could've done it could've done it

Tom Hanks was doing voice work for Woody in his days off of this movie wow so this is where Woody,

this is Woody. Yes. Hanks in Seattle. Right. Wow. Right, because his Woody audition was- Griffin is glowing. I'm just, I'm so in love.

His Woody audition was Turner and Hooch, essentially. That was the audio they used to test him out as the voice. I mean, it is that crazy thing. We've said it in the commentary episodes, which will have come out by this point. But they hire him to play Woody. And then by the time the movie comes out, he has won two Oscars that he did not have when they started recording. Yeah, it is wild.

Disappointed in Denver. You know, there's that montage of the um other uh callers like the other famous callers no what's that what are you talking about it's like when she's listening to the radio oh yes yes yes yes our favorite hits yes sleeplessness disappointed in denver disappointed denver is something like the minute i'm about to reach orgasm, he wants to... He wants a sandwich. Why don't you make a sandwich before you have sex? Yeah.

That's Nora Ephron. She's disappointed in Denver. She's the voice. Yes. Can we shout out how good Caroline Aron is in this? She rules. I love Caroline.

Caroline Aron is just like a fucking classic pro character actor, always good, but shows up a number of times in the f-round filmography i mean was in this is uh my life uh she's in this is uh this is my life which she's i would say pretty great in would you agree yeah uh i would agree you would agree she's also a caller in mixed nuts right um which of course has lots of voice performances but she's she's without ruining it she is the best joke in the movie yeah i think so yes i mean i guess it's what a weird movie that is

okay you ever seen mixed nuts i'm really excited for this i've never seen mixed nuts i remember being out i remember it being out. I remember it being like a grown-up movie out at the time, but I really don't know much about it, other than that it's like a famous Efron miss. Yeah, it's an Efron miss. Is that next week? Yeah. That's the next one, right?

That's the next one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Charles Rogers is our guest on that, co-creator, showrunner of Search Party, and that was his favorite movie as a child. It's like David and Sleepless in Seattle, but even weirder. Yes.

It was inexplicably the movie he watched like 20 times. It's so bizarre. We recorded that, I don't know, months ago. That is our one. Yeah. Yeah, it's our one F-Rom.

In my tiny apartment. Excuse me. Small fine. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. It was the one F-Rom we recorded early because Charles was flying back to LA. And we were like, this is so early.

It's like going to feel crazy to do it. And now we're so thankful we have one episode in which we're all in the same room we got this one precious episode you're gonna have to do like a preface being like well this was recorded in the before times as you'll know we did not know 10 terrible things that were going to happen after that right we keep talking in the episode about how strong our genes are and how we'll never die getting did you advertise our live show and for people to go see that we keep sneezing on each other but certain we're we're exchanging so many bodily fluids in that episode it's crazy and just for sport like

it's not a sexual thing it's not like a like a trolling each other thing it's just like we can we feel that freedom it's four guys and it's one cup and that's it and the cup overflow it with that let us do the box office game on that note and the box office this movie came out june 25th 1993 and griffin it didn't open to number one it's a standard summer blockbuster because this is the same summer's jurassic park is that correct so jurassic park in its third week has made 171 million dollars just an absolutely staggering hit um so that is still number one but sleepless in seattle is number two what is it open to 17 million dollars that's a lot uh-huh and it makes 126 domestic 227 worldwide big hit has a huge multiplier as

you can tell it had like a seven multiplier uh it's funny that it's a winter movie like it starts at christmas and goes through valentine's day and they're like no no no end of june that it's a winter movie like it starts at Christmas and goes through Valentine's Day and they're like no no no no end of June

end of June maybe I know I was so I was so certain this movie came out in either January or November like I was like so ready for this

to be like is it like a pre-Valentine's Day or a pre-Christmas release because that's what you've got mail as you've got mail as a December release right

yes yes man I am so excited to rewatch You've Got Mail it's one of the things keeping me going i'm excited too but this i much prefer this movie to you've got mail um number three at the box office griffin this is the movie that i see is both a griffin movie and a ben movie oh interesting it's a kid okay that you think is equally Griffin and Ben It's not Problem Child? No

But that movie rules It's Well that's the thing That's more Ben This is a Griffin movie In that it's a kid movie With a kid star It's like a classic

90's Kid movie Where the star is a kid And then Ben It's about a kid Who's a little stinker Hell yeah I think I have a guess.

Please. Is it a Macaulay Culkin film? No. Katie, what's your guess? Is it the Dennis the Menace with Walter Matthau? Yes! Wow. I saw that in the theaters.

I bet you did. I saw that in the theater. I love that movie. Can we talk about how weird it is that Walter Matthau suddenly has this like robust box office run? Yeah, it's like where he like, you know, he only as a mean grandpa. I know, but it's like suddenly like fucking Lemon and Matthau are back. They're going to do four more comedies together in the 90s. And finally, it means that Matthau is bankable, that he can finally play the role he was born to play, Mr. Wilson.

Like Hollywood Living Legend Academy Award winner Walter Matthau finally gets to go like, God damn it, Danich, get off my lawn. And is Joan Plowright his wife in that? Let's find out you're correct I think Christopher Lloyd is the like villain

he is he's way too intense villain like he is actually like a very upsetting hobo in that movie yes he plays a

drifting burglar named Switchblade Sam did Ben write this movie I forgot about that that fucking is amazing he's an amazing

this is the rosetta stone for your personality ben you didn't know so but also but also like you go like oh christopher lloyd's gonna play the villain and dance the mess you go like great perfect casting it'll be like doc brown he'll be a villain but he won't really be threatening and then christopher lloyd shows up and he's like this is my cape fear i am going for i am pure menace there was not a drop of comedy in my performance like google what he looks like in this movie it is so fucking up i saw this in theaters and i have like no oh my god jesus right i'm not exaggerating here'm going to make what he looks like my background. Oh, no. Please get ready.

Yeah, Ben, are you looking at my background? Oh, no. Okay, I'm ready. Oh, God. Oh, my God. And then in the daylight, he basically looks like a sort of like a cross between Robert Mitchum

and Night of the Hunter and Hugo Weaving in Cloud Atlas is the like nightmare demon. But he also looks like the hair you pull out of the drain. Yes. He looks like your plumber comes in and he's like oh my god like like takes this thing out he also he looks a little bit like iggy pop like died and came back to life everything about his like eyes are completely bloodshot red

everything about him is incredible he should have won the oscar for that movie it's so fucking good man the wildest thing reboot dennis the menace it's a great premise wildest kid versus old guy yeah ben do you know that in the uk there is okay let me talk about it let me talk about it i was trying to set that up over i was trying to set that up okay david please yes well i grew up in britain as you know it's been established that you know of course and you live there your entire life so in america dennis the menace who i'm actually not as familiar with but he's a little blonde child and he has a slingshot and he causes trouble right like i that's the premise yes where's overalls is there a British version oh my god there's a entirely different

get out what is his name bloke no his name is Dennis the Menace there's a British version who the wildest thing was

was created in the same year completely different character both only created simply because Dennis rhymes with menace yeah

and I guess in the 50s it just became a thing of like, these kids are out on the streets. They are two entirely different characters created in different countries in the same year that have survived for decades that are totally totally different

other than having the exact same name. And no company has ever bought this IP to merge them no you can't merge them they're very different because dennis the menace in britain he's the star of the bino which is like a popular children's magazine um he has black hair jet black hair and he wears like a red and black striped shirt he has a dog called nasher who likes to bite ben pretty cool and i love a biting dog his favorite activity which i believe has been softened recently because it is so horrifying is beating up the the like

weak boys in his schools who are called softies and like to have like tea parties and shit and are just like exaggeratedly coded as gay dumps them his ultimate villain is called Walter the Softy it is such an insane relic of like British post-war humor but yeah it's great David your Skype your zoom background is too much

it's so scary but the other thing is because of all that do you know what Dennis the Menace was called in Britain? This movie? Dennis. Because they were like, if we call a movie Dennis the Menace and it's about some blonde American child, Britain will riot. Like, they'll be like, that's not Dennis the Menace! They should have called it Switchblade Sam the Movie.

they should have called it switchblade sam the movie well then they'd have to like rate it 18 and only show it like if you have special permission from the government they only show it along the train tracks you can only see it there it only screens under a bridge david what's the number four movie at the box office? It is the notorious action hit that was a flop because of Jurassic Park. It was like the other big summer movie. Oh, man. In 1993. It got big star, but it got totally crowded out by Jurassic Park. We will do it on this podcast one day.

It is a crazy blank check movie. It's from a big director. Last Picture Show. I'm sorry. Last Picture Show. I'm sorry. Last Action Hero. It would be funny if it was the Last Picture Show, but it is Last Action Hero. I mean, that's my favorite action movie is the Last Picture Show. It would be funny if Sony was like, all right, 1993.

We think we know how to take on Jurassic Park. We're going to re-release the Last Picture Show. Wide. Less color. We're desaturating it even more simple shepherd being humiliated on the on the fucking diving board that's gonna take longer we added stuff they always make that scene longer every time they release it number five at the box office wow good movie oh you know you want to talk more about last section here? I mean, you know, we'll talk about it one day.

No, we'll talk about it someday. We'll do an episode someday. Is a music biopic. It was nominated for a couple Oscars. It's a good movie. Sort of like a classic 90s music biopic. Very dark, very intense, pretty great. What's Love Got to Do With It?

Hell yeah. Wow. No, I'm asking you, what does love have to do with the number five movie no i'm asking you what does love have to do with the number five movie in the box office i mean that is the question big summer movie huh what's got to do with it yeah it's funny to think of that as a summer movie and as a disney picture right a big summer disney release that got oscar nominations nine months later it's wild stuff larry's only not on disney plus it's on disney plus but like splash every time he's about to hit her they cgi more hair that splash thing was crazy that splash can we talk about the splash thing

extended her hair over her boobs and butt to like stop it not being pg and you think you're prepared for what it's like all right it's easier here whatever and it's so much weirder than you think it's gonna be the quarter crew guys who i love on youtube who break down visual effects stuff they like explained they're really just copy pasting like they cut out a section of her hair not it's like a skin graft right but it's like a video clip of her hair and they they cut out a section of her hair not it's like a skin graft right but it's like a video clip of her hair and they like cut out a triangle and then they just place it over so it's also in a loop like the hair keeps on moving the same way it's it's unbelievable anyway they should do that i think they should do that though I think every movie that Disney previously released that is

not so adult that it should end up on Hulu but a little too explicit for Disney Plus they should just put Daryl Hannah's hair over the explicit parts we have gone on long enough though Griffin you're right and it's time to wrap it up but it's been

a great episode it's been a great episode fun it's been a great evening remote boozy blank check yeah what more could you want what more could you want one thing I wanted to say just very quickly about the movie

there's a scene where Tom Hanks is in a restaurant he gets a phone call at the restaurant I've always wanted this to happen to me. The 90s baby. It's never happened. And I don't know when it will happen again. And it's his son calling him for something stupid and he can't remember

what it was. And he's like, are you bleeding? Is she bleeding? Leave me alone. It is so funny that his son wants him to get with someone and then cockbox him at every turn. The second he meets Victoria. He calls her a hoe. He calls her a hoe.

That is weird. He calls her a hoe many times. Ben, here's my advice to you. When this becomes an option again in our society, the next time you go out for a dinner, a fancy dinner dinner hand your cell phone over to the maitre d so if anyone calls you during dinner they have to walk over yeah they have to walk over there's a call for you sir apparently uh act now because this is your last chance to uh save your credit card you know like that phone call i get once sir you've won a cruise uh this person needs to talk to you right away there's some pre-recorded message in chinese if you want us to respond

to this sir it's an azerbaijan phone code i don't know if you know anyone from there people don't call the restaurant to reach you because you have a phone so you got to give your phone to the restaurant and go i'm not picking this up that's why yes we have nothing else to do don't worry about it restaurant industry is in great shape now that the country's back open we're killing it all right well someday thank you for that insight ben i think it's a perfect note to end on. And Katie, thank you. Oh my God. Katie, I miss you. For finally joining the Five Timers Club. We miss you.

I'm so genuinely happy about it. And like, I feel like I shouldn't take as much pride in it as I do. But like, I've been chasing Richard Lawson for a long time. I mean, I know he's at like seven or eight times. So it's going to be an eternal chase. But this feels good. But look, here's like a big big stat you were kind of the first proper guest of blank check yes we did a year of all the star wars stuff but when we had rebranded

as blank check yoshida's on the two episodes what's ostensibly the last episode pre-blank check and the first episode post-blank check that are both on force awakens no she's only on like she's only on the second force awakens oh okay fair enough fair enough i'm sorry i forgot but you were on like the first episode as a guest in the the format that now exists to this day i can't believe and it also was when we created the box office game yes it is that's right i i remember it fondly i remember texting david when i was like visiting relatives for thanksgiving me like i've started listening to your dumb podcast about the phantom menace and i can't stop so i guess i'm a fan now and uh you know great friendships were born from it was like an early sign it was an early sign that we were crossing over beyond like chris gethard fans and like real hardcore

yeah because you guys have been doing the show for months before I started listening. And I was like, all right, I'll do it. But our initial audience. So long. Ben. Now that Ben's still bitter about everything. No, it's fine. No, but I feel like you were like, hey, I'd love to come on the show whenever you're not talking about Star Wars. So then you were like the first guest

not to talk about Star Wars in the history of our podcast. I should go back and listen to that. I can't, like, listening to myself on a podcast is hard. I have to listen to interviews I do and stuff like that sometimes. But that, I feel like,

has been long enough that it would be interesting to listen back to. It would just be a time warp at this point. Someone posted on Twitter the other day a clip from the Wide awake praying with

anger episode and it feels like listening to early simpsons where you're like oh they hadn't figured out the voices yet like i'm not even talking comedic voices i'm like literally we feel like early dan castaneda versions of ourselves i'm like the pitch is wrong on Griffin there. That doesn't sound correct. The drawing style, David was still too squiggly. They hadn't figured out the right amount of beard to have on him yet. Chocolate frosted milkshakes. I can't do it. Mitch does it.

For whatever reason, I had an eye patch. Yeah. They were like, Ken's a fun waiter. They know this fun waiter. Hey, David, don't have a cow, man. And David's like, Ben's a fun waiter. They know this fun waiter. Hey, David, don't have a cow, man. And David's like, you listen to me, Griffin. I will not tolerate your buffoonery. And then Ben's like, come on, boys.

Let's record the podcast. He was like that, to be clear. Yeah. That was accurate. All all right we got an intern on it at a computer sucking on a pacifier exactly katie we love you thank you for coming back thank you guys i love you too i'm so like it's i come on the show and i feel like i'm stepping into the podcast that i'm listening to all the time which i'm sure everyone else does too um but also everyone else is doing Zoom hangouts with their friends now and this gets to be a hangout with your friends. It also turns into a podcast

that people listen to. It's the best of both worlds. But Katie, I look forward to doing an in-person episode at the top of the Empire State Building in 2027. The idea of going into a tiny recording studio or like really like

the old one you guys had where it was truly tiny and windowless and everyone was crying. It was a closet. Just that level of intimacy with people again. I think

we'll get there someday. But in the meantime, thank you for making it possible for me to come on from my house. This is very exciting for me. I feel like you guys are doing a good job

keeping the vibe on Zoom. It's not easy. Thank you. We're trying. We're trying. I think we are too. I think guys are doing a good job keeping the vibe on zoom it's not easy thank uh we're trying we're trying i think we are too i think we're doing a good job and the bigger thing is i mean when when it becomes possible physically the the long in the works return of of charlie on the podcast we still need to negotiate yeah thank you to charlie for having good taste and for continuing to wear all the Forky merchandise that I bought him a year ago. That Forky shirt is strongly in the rotation, as is the plush Forky. We've got a fork Forky. I feel like I've hinted at this before in the show, but just want to state this clearly. I just a year ago when David was still anti-Forky before the movie came out, texted you, Katie.

And I was like, if I sent you $100 worth of Forky merchandise for Charlie, would you accept that? And you were like, absolutely. And I did. I sent him so much Forky stuff so that you could bother David with photos of him loving Forky. I am never bothered by photos or videos of katie's kids i love him so much i held charlie in my arms when he was like two months old or whatever younger when we were at trivia uh i like that griffin is this like distant benevolent uncle who like you know they

have not like charlie has not seen you since he's been conscious but like he he knows you're the forky giver good he's aware that they came for me. I was supposed to go over and give Erlik's son a Forky doll. I bought the Forky doll, and then, you know, this is no time to be transmitting Forky merchandise. Asa still has a couple years before he's gonna give a shit about Forky anyway, so you got time.

Folks, thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Ant for co-producing this show uh rachel jacobs for editing assistance uh go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit and go to patreon.com backslash blank check for blank check special features where you got franchise commentaries baby uh and tune in next week for mixed nuts with charles rogers recorded in the before times yep you get one blast from the past episode before we're rocketed back to virtual nice yep all true

and as always david you're wrong you're never too young to love Forky. Okay. All right. You didn't respond to that earlier, and I imagined you had something in your pocket. I was saving it. Never too young to love Forky. Everyone ready?

Oh, yeah. Okay. David, get in the character. What are you doing? no no you gotta get in the character let me just save the fucking line okay and the line is i'm not gonna give you a line reading but really try to find the character you are dr marcia i have to oh i'm dr marcia fieldstone i see