Blank Check with Griffin & David - Something Wild with Scott Aukerman

Episode Date: December 15, 2019

From Comedy Bang Bang and the new film Between Two Ferns: The Movie, Scott Auckerman joins the two friends to talk about people who talk funny and that's their job now. What films did Ray Liotta think were stupid? Where did Sue Tissue, the original Manic Pixie Dream Girl, disappear to? Does Blue Velvet make sense if you miss the first few minutes? And how much did Jeff Daniels get paid to be in Dumb and Dumber? 

You were right. I'm a rebel. I am. I just channeled my rebellion into the podcast. So we're just looking at the poster and the tagline, and the tagline is very crummy. Makes it look like a very stupid movie. But the poster for this movie is so great, and it makes me miss painted posters. Sure. I mean, to remind you, you know the poster, right?

Yes, of course. Iconic. Yes. But if someone did that today, it would be Photoshopped, right? A hundred percent. I also just don't think there's something like very elegantly simple about like he's just coming in from the other side. He's upside down. And I feel like they just don't do that anymore. Yeah, I know you haven't introduced me yet. So you should talk on Mike before we introduce him.

Great. It's the opposite of your podcast. It also is interesting because technically, in a movie like Drop Dead Fred or something like that, the crazy character would be the one coming in upside down. Good call. Right. And yet she is there almost as the grounding, centering force,

and his life has been turned upside down by it, which is interesting. That's a perfect take. Thank you all for listening. He's in that electric blue suit too. Yes. Um, that is interesting devolution though of like, this is painted and then what?

Five or six years later, drop dead Fred is like clearly a posed photo, but you can tell that he is actually hanging upside down on the day. Yeah. The way they're looking at each other, it's clear that that was shot for real. I don't think so. You think this is for real?

I think so. Do you disagree? I think that's a photo. Yeah, the way their hair is sort of layered over each other. As a person who has done an upside down episode of my show, it is very difficult to get people's hair to stand up the way that it normally would fall when you're filming right side up, but then turning it upside down in post.

Good call. And that to me looks like they basically slicked his hair up. The titular drop dead Fred, of course. That's kind of the classic Rick Mayall hair height. Of course, that's right. He had this sort of bouffant mushroomy, yes. Yeah. I got to say this, and this is not the right place to say it, but I just want to quickly.

Where do you want to say it? I've talked. On Capitol Hill? I'd love to say it on Capitol Hill, and they will not let me in. I'd love to sit down with the group, the McLaughlin group. Group, not report. What am I talking about? I don't know.

You're a moron. It's more of a group of guys. They're not reporting on anything. They're still going, right? The McLaughlin Wolf Pack? Yeah. We've talked in the past about how much Al Pacino and my grandmother now look the same. Yeah.

How they have similar sort of levels of fake tan and hair height. The hair height. Right. Just sort of like. Pacino, does he have the mullet kind of thing going on too these days? Yeah. A lot of length in the back. And a lot of like layers. Sweeping it back. It's a lot of like... Pacino, does he have the mullet kind of thing going on too these days? Yeah, a lot of length in the back. And a lot of like layers.

Sweeping it back. It's a lot of like little pieces sticking up. He almost has the Rachel going on, doesn't he? He kind of has the Rachel going on. And he's got weird highlights like that too. Like his hair is like a sort of sandy brown with blonde streaks in it. The thing that's funny is that De Niro has also favored the long hair now, but he just grew it back. Whereas Pacino, there's something going on.

Pacino does have the longer in the back than he does on the top. And this one has a real Lucifer beard. Did I say De Niro or Pacino? Lucifer, yes. Okay, I meant to say that, yes. I also feel like Pacino dresses like my grandmother now. And then I went to see The Irishman, which is the most Pacino has been in a character, like giving himself to a character.

Oh, really? In a theatrical film in probably 15 years, where he's really like, yeah, right, right, where he's doing the classics. No, but where he like looks different, and he's doing a different voice, and he's not just relying on all the old mannerisms. And the entire time,

I couldn't get my grandmother out of my head. Like he's Jimmy Hoffa, and he's got the slick back hair. Yeah, wait until you see The Irishman. You're going to keep on thinking Rudolf Podemsky. I thought in the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood he was kind of different. He's great in that. I was forgetting that that also existed. I love that. He's really good in that. Yeah.

He's having fun again. He is having fun. I also like that you then see him later like lumbering around in his home theater and you know. Oh yeah. Seems like in his home theater and, you know, seems like he has a nice little life. Yeah, he's got an interesting waddle in that movie. He's got a good waddle. Do you mean underneath his neck?

Is that what we're talking about? There's a little going on there. That too, but I was also saying he's got a little bit of an Oswald Cobblepot gait in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. He should be in Batman. He should. Come on. He should. Come on. He should play dare I say it

the Batman. What if he were Batman? He's one of the best actors of our generation. Why should he not play Batman? The guy has an Oscar. Did you see The Godfather? This guy's great. And when someone has honed their craft into a fine blade

and has ascended to the top of the mountain of the art, the reward is playing Batman. You gotta play the Batman. I'm looking for clues. Who me? Who I? Who me? I'm the Batman.

He could just sort of sculpt his hair up into ears, I guess. me? I'm the Batman. He could just sort of like sculpt his hair up into ears, I guess, right? You got the height. You got to cut out some holes in this mask. Got to have the hair poking through. Oh, I thought you meant eye holes. Oh, I can't see. I'm trying to figure out your scene. They didn't cut eye holes out in the mask.

And so he goes to the costume designer saying, you've got to cut holes in this mask. You've got to cut holes. I was like, okay, interesting premise. I can't breathe. He's talking to Alfred. He's talking to Alfred. Right. He's talking to Alfred.

And then do a swap. Make Alfred Robert Pattinson. Robert Pattinson's got that classy British touch. Elegant. He's a very normal, elegant man. Or make it Radcliffe or someone like that with Pacino. This is a dynamite idea for

a Batman movie. I feel kind of bad that we're going to cost Warner Brothers so much and sunk in development right now. They're just going to hear this and reset and go, oh, Old Al! Of course! Of course! Of course.

It is so funny having recently re-watched Casino in preparation for The Irishman. Sure. And I saw. Why do you need to watch Casino to prepare for The Irishman? To re-acclimate with the Scorsese mob patina. Also, you went to a casino recently. I went to a casino. I want to prepare.

Trying to get that juice back. How to win money. Right. I watched the film Casino. Right. And only learned how to get murdered. Yeah, in a cornfield. On counting cards.

Yes. But it's so funny that in Casino. Casino. Casino. De Niro's defining characteristic is that he's Jewish. Right. And then the Irishman, his defining characteristic is that he's Jewish right and then the Irishman his defining characteristic

is that he's Irish this guy's so Irish yeah and he's like again I wish I didn't know that but thank you well I'm sorry I'm sorry to connect the dots on the title

well that I really yeah you thought it was just like an ironic nickname I will say that I I prefer not knowing anything about any movie

sure and so I was talking to Adam Scott on our REM show the other day about the Irish, and he was saying how great it was. And I was like, yeah, but De Niro, Pacino, they're not Irish. And he goes, and then he told me something about it on air. I was like, well, I wish I didn't know. And now knowing that De Niro plays the titular Irishman,

I also wish I didn't know that. Okay. Well, I apologize. Yeah. It's there from the beginning of Irishman. I also wish I didn't know that. Okay. Well, I apologize. Yeah. It's there from the beginning of the movie. It's true. But they keep on going like, this guy's so fucking Irish.

No, he's not. Right. It's like, A, I don't know if it's just because of his cultural position, but he looks more Italian than anyone in the world to me. Does he try an Irish like, hi? He does.

I know you say you don't want to know anything else about the movie. Does he drink Jameson constantly? He's carrying around a pot of gold the entire time. It's a little offensive. Didn't Nicholson try to do the Boston thing for a couple of scenes? He is in and out of that accent. I'm so

Boston. Get me some chowder. And then... Wicked stupid. Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting also tries it and I just wish that he didn't. People can be from all over. Totally. You know what I mean? You can talk like however you talk from all over the world because people

move to different cities from all over. You don't need to get into there if you can't nail it. He doesn't need to be a Boston guy. He doesn't need to be a Boston guy. If you're that famous and that iconic need to be Ira. He doesn't need to be like a Boston guy. That's famous. And that iconic. Right.

It's like, people will go with it. You want to take the Sean Connery approach where it's like, yes, I'm from Russia. Right. Exactly. Clark Gable.

Yes. Yes. Not Clark Gable. Uh, Cary Grant. Cary Grant. Yes. Cary Grant.

But also Clark Gable. Clark Gable too. Yeah. Just be classy. Just pick a voice and that's your voice. Yes. Patrick Warburton. Yes.

Just do that. Like he can be from wherever I would buy it. Yes. Patrick Warburton. Yes. Just do that. Like he can be from wherever. I would buy it. Yes. Yeah. Oh, I know. I had never met him before. That was him in Empire Strikes Back, by the way.

Yeah, but Tim. Yes. I love you. I know. Just for that one line, he tagged him. I know. I was trying to do him in that Alamo commercial or whatever he's in where he goes, hey, Patrick, looking good. I know.

But instead I. I never met him because he was the other. He's the other Tick. Oh, yeah. There's some Tick rivalry going on. Is he the voice of the Tick in the cartoon? No. No.

He was in the live action. No, of course. I know. I know. I forgot. Yeah. Three different actors that played the role. But I met him recently doing like a comic convention.

And he was like, I'm sorry that my voice is so fucked. I've been fighting the fires up near my home. He's been fighting fires? He's like running in with like buckets of water? I was like, how's it been going? And he's like, well, my brother-in-law is a firefighter. So he came down. He fought it himself.

how's it been going and he's like well my brother-in-law is a firefighter so he came down he fought it himself and I was like you just brought in a fireman to like

to help out wow but also to like just be like take care of my home but also his voice sounded so fucking good yeah

that I was so jealous that that was him being like my voice is gone I can't do an impression on one of my other shows Freedom we were talking about

these actors and they seemed primarily to be around in the 50s and 60s and maybe the 70s who basically they found a funny way of talking

and then their career was set for life. Reverse engineered from that. And so it's the guy who talks like this. Right. Walter Brennan won three Oscars?

Four? Four. I think he got two. I think he got two. I think he won three. I believe he has the all-time record. But, yeah, but Patrick, I was trying to think of a modern equivalent, and Patrick Warburton is the modern equivalent. He found a funny way to talk.

He did it on Seinfeld. He's talked like it ever since, and he can coast. Yes. Just because he figured out that funny way to talk. But his voice is his, that's his bread and butter, right? Right, it's incredible. I mean, he must be worried about the fires. Yeah, but it still sounded so goddamn good.

Do you think he's insured his voice? It has to be, right? Yeah, his vocal cords? Yeah. Should we all insure our vocal cords? We should all insure his vocal cords. Was her entire butt insured? Was like the butthole also insured?

Or is that a different insurance? Scott, what a great question. And what a great moment to introduce you. This is Blank Check. It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their career. And I give a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear.

And sometimes they bounce. Baby. This is a me series on the films of Jonathan Demme. It's called Stop Making Podcasts. That's right. And our guest today from Threedom, from You Talking U2 to Me, from Comedy Bang Bang, the TV show and the podcast, is Scott Aukerman. Hi, guys.

Thank you for having me on. It was by request. What a joy. I appreciate it. I did not demand. This was not on demand. He requested. I heard the episode.

It was a request. Yes, you did say I would do that. He didn't, like, grab you by the lapels. Yes, yes. I have to imagine the cheeks were in shirt. Yeah. Oh, sure. Well, that's what I'm saying.

Obviously, the cheeks are in shirt because that's the thing that makes J-Lo's butt J-Lo's butt. That's the moneymaker. Right. We, you know, that's just the topping on the butthole, though. Mm-hmm. Because everyone's butthole is relatively the same. I would imagine the diameter of it. I mean, I've heard some incredible things about her butthole.

But I do think with J-Lo, you're like, well, if she lost any mass in the cheeks, it would affect her performance. That's what I'm saying. The butthole, I'm sure the inspectors came and said, well, you just have a regular butthole. We're not going to insure that because you have the butthole everyone has. And if her butthole got damaged, you know, God forbid, it would affect— Yeah, God forbid. Please, let's make sure that we're saying that. It would affect her day-to-day living.

She would have a tough time. Sure. She would have to suddenly sit in seats that have cushions. Right. You know, whereas right now she can go, she basically, she can go on the just most uncomfortable bench in Dodger Stadium. She can go anywhere. And just be like, oh my God, I could sit here for hours. And I know we're inside like showbiz shop talk, but that really is her reputation in

Hollywood. People go like, JLo's incredible. She's such a pro. She can shit anywhere. Do you say shit or sit? Both. I Googled this, but I just got to a very weird website. Oh, you Googled whether her butthole is injured?

No, no. I mean, you know. Okay. But here, come on, read some. Read some of the- Ben, come on. Give me this headline. It just has the greatest headline.

Are copper pennies an effective treatment for bee stings? I don't know. Never knew. To rub them? Bee stings? Like if someone beasts you, goes into beast mode? I mean, I remember hearing that

if you put pennies in your mouth when you're drunk driving, you can bypass the breathalyzer. Yeah, I've heard that before. I am so not surprised. But I can tell you. It's a great way to die. It doesn't work.

It doesn't work. I can tell you firsthand. Yeah. How about this one? Asparagus, does it cure cancer? That's another question people apparently are asking. Are these the results you got? Are you just looking up questions?

I'm on some website that purports to answer the J-Lo question. What's a question? And then it has populated like other sort of weird questions that people ask. The most commonly asked. Yes. I vividly remember that being a New York Post headline probably. It was in like 1999.

Right, for like five straight days they were just milking that like how much is each cheek worth. Usually you milk up top. Whoa! Oh, congratulations.

So you introduced the podcast, right? I did. Okay, good. I'm Griffin. I'm David, I'm sorry. That was the only thing I didn't introduce. Okay. But this is a main series on the films of Jonathan Dameron. Yeah, you I did. Okay, good. I'm Griffin. I'm David. I'm sorry. That was the only thing I didn't introduce.

Okay. But this is a main series on the films of Jonathan Damian. Yeah, you said that. And a couple weeks ago on Comedy Bang Bang, although by now when this episode comes out it will have been longer. It was a while ago. Long ago. Some random man came on your podcast and chose at the end to promote my canceled TV show

and podcast and you then offered to him that you would hypothetically want to be on the Something Wild episode which thankfully I heard.

Yes. Well, you're a listener of the show. Regular listener. Of course. Yes. By request and

wanted to do this episode because I love this movie so much. And who better than I to talk about this movie? A man who saw it opening weekend. Sure. And I said to David, I said, I think Aukerman maybe wants to do something well. And he went, that makes so much sense. Oh, okay.

It is kind of a movie where I go, of course this is a film you love. Like everything I've ever heard you say about your artistic inspirations, your passions of the people whose work you like the most, everything in your sensibility feels very like it's all collected in this movie in a certain way. That's interesting. And I watched it again two days ago and I think my perspective on it has changed a little bit. So, but I'm interested in talking about that as well.

Right, right. Yeah, Jonathan Demme. I mean, I also thought, I think of you as a Talking Heads fan. Yes. That was the reason I saw this movie in the first place is because in 1985, I got very into Talking Heads because Stop Making Sense had just come out. got very into Talking Heads because Stop Making Sense had just come out. I had obviously heard Burning Down the House before, but I had a best friend who was into a lot of great music who got me into stuff.

And so we would listen to the Stop Making Sense soundtrack a lot, and I was like, I've got to see this movie. I've got to see this movie. And it was not playing anywhere really in Orange County at the time. For some reason, maybe it had been out too long at that point. I can't recall. I think it came out late 84 something like yeah so i so my friend and i drove up to hermosa beach to see it um which was a bit of a trek for us um but uh yeah it was it was incredible and i think it was like a

wednesday night or something like that watching stop making sense and just like dancing around in my seat and all that and uh you know i'm the type of person when I see something I like, I then investigate it and then I try to immerse myself in the people's other work as well, you know. So not to the extent where I've really seen any other Jonathan Demme movies. We were talking about this the other night. You did shout out Married to the Mob as well. No, Married to the Mob. I basically, I dropped off after Philadelphia.

Yeah, after Philadelphia. I think he's, we were talking about this, he stopped making not only sense, but movies. Sure. They became fewer and far between, and it feels like the sensibility that you respond to most strongly was this run of like something wild married to the mob. Stop making sense. Anarchic kind of comedies. Yes, and as much as I like Married to the Mob, I think it leans a little

too heavily on the cartoonish stuff that this film does not. I, not having seen this film in a couple years, having rewatched Married to the Mob recently for the show was surprised even though i feel like so much of this movie's reputation the way it's cited the most is oh it's this movie with this incredible tonal shift yeah i feel like that's the thing everyone always throws out it's like i had never really seen a movie that had a tonal shift at the

time and i think that's i i've responded to different things about it the few different times I've seen it. And I was trying to sort of like go back in time and think of what I liked about it when I was 16 and watched it opening weekend because it was Jonathan Demme. David Byrne did the theme song. I did not know who – I don't think I'd seen Purple Rose of Cairo yet. So I don't think I knew who Jeff Daniels was. I did not know who Melanie Griffith was. I'd seen Purple Rose of Cairo yet. So I don't think I knew who Jeff Daniels was. I did not know who Melanie Griffith was. I just was in for Jonathan Demme. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Um, and what I think I responded to it the first time I ever saw it was, uh, first of all, I think I identified with the Jeff Daniels character because, um,

I think all movies were sort of directed at me, a middle-class white guy. And so both tall men and, and his performance was very funny. And I, so I just identified with him and felt like everything that was happening to him could happen to me. Um, and I, you know pretty straight-laced upbringing and stuff. But also the tonal shift was the thing that I had never really seen in a movie like that where it was very funny, very charming, very energetic and quirky,

and then suddenly got very dramatic and violent. Yeah, and that it pulled that off, that it kind of tied to the success of that shift, it immediately made Ray Liotta a star. Yes, that's true. The buzz is like, oh, this guy comes in and he changes the temperature of the movie immediately. Yeah. Like he takes over the film. Yeah.

And he'd never been in anything. Yeah. Well, he'd been in a soap opera. Right. Right. For a number of years. Yeah, and that's not nothing. I'm so sorry.

I forgot about that he was on Another World, yes. But it made him immediately. Joey Perini number two is how he was credited. Oh, okay. Do you know that off of this, Leota was Tim Burton's original choice for Batman? Yeah. I think we talked about it on the Batman episode, right?

You gotta get Pacino. Well, that's a bit. And he tried, but he was in the sea of love. Pacino screen tested for Burton. He was like, too young. There's something too vital. I mean, if I were making this 35 years from now, happily. So with Leota, was he just like that guy has that kind of like maniac sort of energy?

I think that's the thing. I mean, Burton's talked so much about how his whole take on the character was he wanted him to be like an insane person. Right, right. And like Keaton obviously got to that sort of like bottled mania but I think he liked how scary Ray Liotta was.

Liotta's also, does he regret did he turn it down or did the studio say no? He said he flat out turned it down because he thought it was silly. Yes. He's one of those guys who is sort of like I remember I saw some interview with him of Field of Dreams. He's like, yeah, that movie's stupid though. Baseball field.

Ghosts. Shoeless Joe, put some goddamn shoes on. He just seems oddly dismissive about like a lot of the sort of highlights of his career. I saw him do an interview recently where he was like, that was such a stupid decision on my part. Not to do Batman? I don't know that he would have done Goodfellas if he had been in Batman. Probably not. And he was like Keaton did a better job than I could have, but it was dumb of me to dismiss it out of hand.

Yeah, well, especially when the work dries up and you're doing those smoking commercials or whatever he's doing now. Chantix works for Ray. I like that he keeps self-identifying as Ray in those commercials. He's like, people come up to me, they're like, Ray, it's a new Ray. Ray! Ray! Ray meant. Which, by the way, he is called Ray in this movie, which is so funny.

I don't have any evidence to this, but I almost wonder if it was written as Ray or whether it was just like, he says Ray, he says his own name in that way so well. We just got to change it. He's a Ray. A lifetime of experience. Self-identifying. Ray! Ray. He says his own name in that way so well. We just got to change it. He's a Ray. He's a real Ray. Self-identifying. Ray! Ray. It's such a good name for this guy.

He is also like, not to get ahead of the movie, but it's, I saw Goodfellas on the big screen recently. Sure. Yeah, of course. You watch Casino. I know. You were steeping yourself. I was steeping. Steeping like tea.

No, you didn't. I know. You were steeping yourself. I was steeping. Steeping like tea. But having watched his face a lot in the last couple of weeks, he is so fascinating looking because there is something so scary and hard about him and something simultaneously so delicate and pretty about him.

He's very pale. He has kind of interesting features. Right, but he's got these startling blue eyes and he's like very delicate eyelashes. Yes. He's got the long eyelashes. Yeah. And then this sort of like pursed mouth. He like simultaneously looks like a hooligan, like a male model.

You know, it's crazy. He he I mean, his his introduction into the movie and his final scene in the movie is almost like, look, i'm a movie star yeah uh you you know when he does the hair thing essentially it's just basically like there is no purpose for him to do it either time other than to be like i am effortlessly cool and so magnetic that this looks amazing when i do it it It is this thing I love. It is a very rare phenomenon, mostly because most scripts don't allow for this kind of thing.

But when an actor enters into a movie and becomes a movie star immediately. Especially when you're like this where the narrative is almost him being like, hey, I'm here and I'm in charge of the movie now. You're exactly halfway through the movie. It's basically he wanders in from the side of the frame and is like, hey, how's it going?

Hey, you. Hey, hey. Right. And then suddenly it's the Ray Liotta film. Right. You know. But, like, Jack Black entering the record store for the first time in High Fidelity is, like, an immediate, like, that's a – now he's a movie star. Now his quote just went up.

You know, like, Ed Norton in Primal Fear. movie started. Now his quote just went up. You know, like Ed Norton and Primal Fear. Like movies where it's like someone who had sort of been percolating around the sides or hadn't been doing anything. The Minions. Do you remember when they first showed up on screen? I had never seen that movie.

And I went, who are these guys? Where have they been? How have I not seen them before? Were they on Another World? You saw Donald Trump where he just sort of pats the head yeah yeah what a good he just entered and was a movie star at that point immediately pointing to the bathroom you're like that guy knows where the bathroom is he takes so many dumps he knows exactly where it is his head is on a swivel when it comes this guy's king of the

shits by the way here's my not to get political okay but here's my theory about donald trump oh boy so he moved into the white house remember it was like a big thing of like will he move into the white house or not and then his security detail is like i don't know he locked he wants to lock the door and he and then he spends all morning in bed and all that kind of stuff i think he's's jacking off constantly. Oh, wow. I think he's got a thing where he's like, you can't, I won't attempt to do a Trump, but he's like, you can't just wander into my room whenever you want. I'm jacking off in here.

So he's sort of got a 13-year-old boy kind of mentality. You're saying you think he does like six-hour straight J.O. sessions? Yeah. It's Jackoff City there in the White House. Right. And the only time he leaves his room is when he's like, does anyone have any gold bond? I'm dry.

Yeah. And he's just like, alright, time to do an hour of work. Yeah. And then he goes back in. You know the crazy thing that's come out semi-recently is that apparently why he's like so private about everything and like locks himself in for so long is that he needs glasses. Sure. But he doesn't want

people to see him wearing glasses. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's why like no one ever sees him wearing glasses yeah right yeah so that's why like no one ever sees him tweet i was holding my phone close to my face i'm realizing it's also why he fucks everything up on the teleprompter sure he thinks glasses make him look weak i will say the teleprompter thing you know there's that thing where he basically like if he makes a mistake on the teleprompter he incorporates it yes into the sentence like it like he meant to say it i mean it's good improv it's like that's 101 kind of stuff. It's what I end up doing on every time

I read an ad. Because I don't want to take another take of it. So it's like you just got to incorporate it and work with it. You know? I respect him for that. Something Wild. Yes. It's his follow up to

Stop Making Sense. A mere year after that film. Right, or a year and a half. No, exactly. I mean, because he had this, so he's this, you know, Roger Corman filmmaker, and then he makes Melvin and Howard, which wins an Oscar and gets him out. Becomes the hot new guy.

Then he makes this movie Swing Shift that's this horrible, protracted fight with Goldie Hawn over the cut. I would be interested to see what he wanted to do with it. You can see it. And we can slip it to you. Another movie you're going to slip to me, though. I also slipped Scott the musical cut of I'll Do Anything. Sure. Which you have been afraid to watch, but you have on your hard drive.

Don't do it, Scott. It's awful. I mean, it's interesting, but it's not an improvement. The Swing Shift director's cut, you're like, oh, this is better. It's the opposite. You watch the theatrical version, and you're like, well, maybe his version's a little better, but there's not a great movie here. And then you watch his cut, and you're like, wow, editing is crazy.

Yeah. Wow. Okay. I've never seen the theatrical, so I... You don't need to. You don't really need to. It's kind of not important. But that takes up several years of his life.

It does. And it kills his spirit. And he does stop making sense right after that. And that experience is so rejuvenating to him that he goes, this is what I want to do. I want this energy. I want this collaboration. I'm not going to do a movie that isn't fun. I'm not going to work with people I don't love.

And so something while married to the mob feel very influenced by Talking Heads in a lot of ways. Yes. And they both have David Byrne collaborating on the music and things like that. Yes. David Byrne's former wife plays the waitress in this. Adele Lutz, who is also in Beetlejuice. But yes.

Well, yes, Johnny. And the rest of the Talking Heads are somewhat involved because Jerry Harrison's on the soundtrack as well. Yeah. This and then Tom Tom Club is on the soundtrack of Married to the Mob. Yeah. But it feels like he kind of takes something from them of like filmmaking should feel like this. A joyful, collaborative. It feels like New York City in a way.

I think so. This is such a good New York movie. Even though it's barely in New York. I know, I agree with you. It's also a great New Jersey movie. It is! Sure, in that going to New Jersey can be very discombobulated. You could end up in a seedy

hotel. Right, probably will. But this movie becomes the first sort of test run of his I'm gonna have fun every time. I can't control how the movie's gonna turn out, but I'm gonna make sure that test run of his, I'm going to have fun every time. Yeah. I can't control how the movie is going to turn out, but I'm going to make sure that making it is fun and that tries to translate. He's gathering all these young actors who are not, I don't think, like proven names yet. Like Jeff Daniels, yes, he's done Terms of Endearment and Purple Rose of Cairo.

He's like the one actor who doesn't get an Oscar nomination for Terms of Endearment and then Purple Rose of Cairo where he's a very late recasting because that movie was Michael Keaton they shot two or three weeks with Michael Keaton Daniels could have been Batman I mean I mean a few things

I know the dominoes fall differently yeah I didn't know that about Michael Keaton yeah it was Michael Keaton

there are photos of him doing oh heck it's only got two Johnnies here yeah there are photos of Michael Keaton they said he was just too modern which kind of makes sense. There's something fundamentally very kind of modern day metropolitan.

So Woody was like, you're too modern here. Two Johnnies, one Woody. I love you, Michael, but you're too modern. I love that your impression is always the I love you. It's when he's like apologizing. I love you. The's when he's like apologizing. I love you, you know. Come on. I know we have to go to therapy, but I love you.

He's so sorry. They're walking down the stairs in his apartment or something. He's basically trying to get someone into the bedroom at that point. Right. Totally above board. Melanie Griffith. Yes. She's a young actress, right?

And she's in things like Roar, and obviously she's Tippi Hedren's daughter. I was reading through her Wikipedia, and it was crazy how she's like 26 in this movie. Is that right? Maybe a little older, 27 or 28. But she had already kind of lived four lifetimes. Sure. Because she starts acting when she's 13. She's obviously like second generation Hollywood royalty.

She starts dating Don Johnson when she's 14 years She's obviously like second generation Hollywood royalty. She starts dating Don Johnson when she's 14 years old. And he is 22. Which rules! Oh boy. Depiction is not endorsement. Well, as I believe, I've told you about this, but Scott, have you ever seen Don Johnson's

spouse one and spouse two not named on his Wikipedia page. Interesting. Very strange. He married two unknown women before he was 22 years old. That he does not want to say who they are. Or I guess their identities remain a mystery.

And then he married Melanie Griffith twice. Yes. It tells a whole story. An interesting guy. And the Melanie Griffith run is crazy because it's like her marriage run is like Don Johnson, 79 to 79. Then it's like Stephen Bauer,

79 to 86. Then Don Johnson too, 86 to 80. There's no gap in between. She marries and divorces within the same year every time. So it's Johnson, Bauer, Johnson, Banderas. And then Banderas. Yeah. Which always was one's Johnson Bauer Johnson Banderas. Yeah.

Which always was one of the weirdest celebrity couples for a very long time. But that always still loves her. He's always given his interviews.

I love her so much. Right. I give her the mucinex honey. Yes. I shall bring it in. I clear the flam from a medicine

cabinet. But she talked about turning into a star though, I had never seen her before, and from minute one of this movie, she also was a star. Well, she was like, her only big role, I feel like, before this is Body Double, the De Palma movie. That was her breakthrough,

but she had been in things like Night Moves, that was a big movie for her, where she was very young, and like, from the beginning, it was very publicly known that she had like, major addiction problems. Right. So I feel like she was one of those actresses where it was like here's this like up and coming teen who immediately is succumbing to like cocaine

and alcohol and is constantly on and off the wagon. And she's got the famous mom so that you know. She's got the famous mom. She married young. Like all of it she was more sort of like in a way before her time tabloid fodder in that sort of sense and then body double was the one where it was like oh this is a real actress and then something wilds the

year after that and then working girls the year after something wild is that correct or is there two years in between 88 yeah so i feel like working girl is where she finally became the movie star but for me this was it because I'd never heard of her totally and what's crazy is

I was like right Working Girl's like the turning point for her she gets the Oscar nominations a huge star and then her 90s suck yeah like in a certain way

it was these three performances in a row crystallized like she worked with three great directors got three good parts it's so terrible for actresses out there

it's fucking awful I was working for a company once and we were talking about a script Three great directors, got three good parts. It's so terrible for actresses out there. It's fucking awful. I was working for a company once, and we were talking about a script, not my own, but someone else's. And I was like, don't you think you have to make this female part a little more interesting and, like, beef it up? Yeah. And strengthen the motivation, like, to really attract a good actress? And they were like, no, any actress wants to do this kind of stuff. I go,

what do you mean? They're like, we can get anyone with this. Sure enough, they did. I don't want to say the film, but they got a major Hollywood star to do it. Just the way it was written.

Cause they're so sparse. And, and I can understand like suddenly you're, you're Melanie Griffith. You do working girl. The whole movie is about you. And then another four years goes by and there is not a movie about a woman. That's what's so nuts was I was looking at her 90s. They had two and someone else got them.

Julia Roberts got one. Right. But I feel like the legacy was from that moment, everyone decided she was a major star. She was a serious actress to be reckoned with and a box office force. And then you look at her 90s and within two years she's playing like the wife in thrillers. Well, she's in like, she's in Bonfire of the Vanities, which is sort of,

you know, which, yeah, Bonfire of the Vanities, that's true. But Tom Hanks and Bruce Willis, you know, survived that movie no problem. Yeah, but then she did

a terrible accent in it. Her accent, she's not great in that movie. But it is kind of weird that she's the one who got dinged the most from that. After that, because then it's like Pacific Heights. Paradise.

Milk Money. Nobody's Fool. She's like the fourth lead or whatever. And Nobody's Fool is the best of these movies, but her smallest role. Mulholland Falls. Remember that one where they're all in the hats? Yeah. They all got hats and guns.

Where Nick Nolte can't stop fucking women. Yeah. Well, Cecil B. Demented is good. they're all in the hats yeah they all got hats and guns where Nick Nolte can't stop fucking women yeah yeah well Cecil B. Demented is good Cecil B. Demented is kind of like someone remembering that she could be

magnetic at that point that's like 10 years later that's 2000 and it's doing a John Waters movie where he's like having to take her

to like the the outro zones of that's the thing is there literally a guy can get heat in a movie in an Oscar nomination and there are 50 parts that all focused on a white guy of that age the next year. Suddenly had seven franchises. But for Melanie Griffith, it's like, okay, I'll play what wife and what?

There's just – there aren't the parts out there. And she has such a specific thing going on yeah you know i mean her voice is like well okay scott but in this she kind of she kind of messes with it and then halfway through she sort of reveals herself uh more as classic melanie griffith right yeah i mean she has that voice that sounds so much like a cartoon animal that there's a natural instinct to put her in sort of the innocent babe in the woods kind of I see when she's saying things like oink oink

and moo moo Hee haw, hee haw Hee haw, hee haw She's the Jennifer Tilly of her day Does this show skip around a lot? So I will say, I think her look in this movie, in the first half of the movie,

is so incredible. And watching it- The bracelets up the arms. The bracelets, the dark hair with the bangs. And I realized when I watched this, again, I don't know that I ever put this together, but I started dating a woman in 1989 who was like exactly like this who who has her look and her energy and i think and and and was very quirky

and fun and i i realized when i was like oh i think I think I started being attracted to her just because of this movie. Yeah. Halfway through the movie when Melanie Griffith changes her look to be more Americana, I know at the time I saw it, I was like, oh good, she's being more normal. But this time I was like, you don't gotta do that.

It's a bummer. It's also when her energy is depleted after that like she's not yeah she doesn't have the same sort of like take charge

girlfriend yeah well Ray Liotto's also becomes the star of the film of that moment where she was he mugs

Jeff Daniels and Melanie Griffith for the movie I'm gonna be top billed yeah as much as I love this movie there are a couple of faults in it

I think now with age, me watching it. And that is one of them of, of the, the, the, the Jeff Daniels character is the straight. He says everything is the dorkiest possibly thing,

possible thing that he can say early on in the movie. He is just a complete dumb idiot. Munis. But he's, yeah, he's talking about munis and she's like, what are those?

Municipal bonds, you know. Company plastic. Everything he says is so lame and yet, when I watched it in 1986, it was like,

yeah, that's me. Sure. and Melanie Griffith needs, Melanie, I'm 16. Right, and you're like,

yeah, I'm a company stooge. But you know what I mean? I was 16, didn't know what I was going to do with my life. I'm 16 right and you're like yeah I'm a company stooge but you know what I mean of like I was 16 didn't know what I was going to do with my life I'm like yeah maybe I'll be a huge

rich banker right those are the options open to me if she's attracted to that yeah but then she one of the faults of the film

I think is that it is more of a compromise where he comes closer to her and she comes closer to him, but she should not have to come closer to him. It's almost like, hey, I'm a white guy. Come closer to my world. Well, this is my alternative read to that.

And I had that same sort of irritation. The thing I had forgotten was at the end when he sees her again that she has developed like a whole new aesthetic persona. Right. Okay. Yeah. What's different about it in that third persona? She's this weird like old timey sort of woman. I mean she's got this like old

sort of like Studebaker looking like 40s or 50s car. So she's sort of almost like pinup girl like kind of? I mean she's it's almost like she's like a debutante. Yeah, I'm trying to find if there's a picture of it. Well, the second, halfway through the movie when she changes her look, there is a narrative purpose for it. That's the thing.

This is her at the end. Right, that's her at the end. Oh, yeah, the polka dots. Right, right. And the satin gloves, and then she's got this weird old-fashioned car. Yeah, so maybe she's back to quirky there. That's the thing. Just the mere change of her hair color is what was annoying to me.

And style. On this watch is like blonde is classic. Like that is what is attractive. And so it's, it's her like, and the narrative purpose of it in the movie is for her to like fit into this Americana and say to her, say to her mom and her classmates like, I'm doing fine.

I'm doing fine. I'm successful. And yet in the movie, it serves the purpose a little bit to me of like saying, hey, Americans who are going to watch this movie, don't worry. She's going to come closer to you than you have to go get closer to her aesthetic. Well, see, if she didn't have the final look, I would agree with that. But I feel like the fact that they're like, no, but left her on devices, she finds a new quirky persona to adopt.

It's like she's not being cured, quote unquote. It is more that like... It's not like the Breakfast Club. But if he went closer to her aesthetic, and he does... By the end of it, he's wearing the sunglasses. In the wonderful scene in the convenience store with wearing her sunglasses

with the Romanes for Lovers shirt all that is great by the end of it I will say like he he looks so fucking cool sitting in that window

yeah with a white like members only jacket and yeah he's got a he's got a fucked up arm or whatever but he looks like

he's in less than zero or something he looks so good and he looks so so cool but he doesn't look quirky in that moment i think and if he were to stay if he were to if he were suddenly to be like look my life has changed so much that i i think when you when you have a relationship that's a lot of what it is is like both of you finding what you love about the other person and incorporating that into your life and i don't know that he incorporates as much of her life sure into his life as much as he says like i'll put up with it but you also at that point i had a flock of seagulls

haircut you should that's what it would have made this a total new wave kid you know his suit is like still very cool looking when he when he gets it although the white shoes are definitely i will say like i i tried to dress like him and matthew modine and married to the mob when i was when i was 19 and i had a blue suit and i had white shoes and i had saddle shoes i would buy like use saddle shoes in a uh thrift store and i was basically trying to dress like those two guys and you had a rube Goldberg type device around your bed to be able to dress as quickly as possible. Right, the socks were positioned at the foot of your... I mean, I will admit

like, because, right, it is sort of silly that his big change is that he puts on a brighter blue suit. Yeah. But I was at a suit shop like a year ago and they were really trying to get me to wear an electric. They were like, come on this is popping your eye. And you were too scared to do it. And I was too scared to do it.

And I was like, well, no, I mean, this will work everywhere. When I was 19 and I wore this blue suit and these white jazzier shoes and everything, I was looked at as quirky. But it's the barest, most minimal change that a man has to do in order to

have people looking at him going, you're not normal. You also go like, you don't know exactly how much time has passed. Well, his arm is healed by the end. So I think he quits his job when in the immediate aftermath when he realizes, I mean I have more to say

about the themes of the movie later, but I think when I think so much time has elapsed by the time they actually get together at the end that it's – Right. I mean you're talking about like the way a couple takes things from each other and meets more in the middle and sort of shares sensibility and all that. He's like kind of one foot in, one foot out at the end of the movie because he still kind of is afraid he's never going to see her again. Yeah.

You know? Like he's sort of taken slight elements from her and it certainly affected him yeah um but he's still chasing women down alleyways trying to confirm whether or not they're melanie griffith right i do also to this point about the are they are they supposed to be with each other and how much why do they like each other? And I think that this is all in that general theme for me. I do think it's one of the film's slight flaws. But thinking about it yesterday, I don't even know if it's a flaw, but I just wanted to bring it up. Of the fact that there's never a scene in the movie, or if there was, it was cut out, where the two of them even get to know that much about each other's lives.

Right. Because the first 45 minutes of this movie, there's no conversation. It's fucking and it's like excitement. Let's do this now. And when they talk, they're both largely lying to each other. Yeah. Right. And so I never really got a sense of why he would fight for her

other than she represents something that he could get from another partner. You know, like I need to, I've been jolted out of my being asleep in not only my relationships, but in society. And I can go now use those lessons with anyone I meet. Why is it her? Well, I mean, so much of it I think is just an energy thing.

Not just the energy between the two of them, but the energy each of them puts out. And that to some degree they represent for each other the things that they are lacking in their life. Sure, but that's the thing. It's like the catalyst. Right. She's wild and free, and so he's sort of drawn to that and he's this sort of like normie she can sort of correct and mess with but also like they are both misrepresenting themselves in a way and he actually is wilder than yes than than what she thinks of him and she's like vice versa right exactly and so demi's whole

thing is like let's peel the image back and look at the people underneath as well and sort of like slow the movie down, which I think sometimes, you know, can sort of baffle people like, I was not confused about that. And you may say it's because I was 16 and I was identifying with the Jeff Daniels character because of my position of privilege. And it's like, well, sure. Yeah, of course they would wind it. Sure. Of course she would like him because he's the leading man. He's the leading man. But at the same time, when I say it's a movie, I mean, it is a visual medium and there just can be unspoken things. Maybe they don't need an entire scene where they say, oh, the reason you're right for me is this and the reason I'm right for you is this.

And this run of demicomies is so much about that sort of aesthetic reality through the aesthetics and all of that. I also feel like to some degree they're representing things. They're representing ideas. But the other thing i think this movie does that is uh really canny and it's it's striking watching this how many movies have either knowingly or unknowingly ripped this film off in the preceding 30 years the following 30 years right where this is like such a well-worn like oh it's like the uptight boring guy who meets like a crazy spontaneous woman she like takes him out of his comfort zone.

And all the ones that have followed since have like – The manic pixie dream. Right. She's like an archetype for something that's not an archetype yet. But this movie like kind of creates the archetypes and then everyone else sort of reduces them. Yes. Whereas the movie very clearly is like the fact that he is lying and trying to pretend that he is more normal right than he is right and the fact that she

seems so crazy and spontaneous but she really wants someone who's normal that she can just kind of fuck with and when when she finds out that he is more fucked up than he's right pretending she's a little that's out that's a bummer to her. Well, and also, the sort of standard definition of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl is the complete lack of interiority. She only exists to show up and affect the other person's life.

The sort of Natalie Portman in Garden State, Kirsten Dunst in Elizabeth Towne, finally an interesting woman. You know all those boring women you know? These boring women. These women. But this film not only gives her like so much interiority, but also gives her a clear pathology where you understand why she spends the first 40 minutes of the movie acting like a lunatic. It's not just because she's a quirky film character.

it's not just because she's a quirky film character. It's because this is someone who is like actively running away from herself and her own life and needs to create personas and live in this sort of impulsive way. And also she got with the bad boy who is like a monument, like a cocaine golem, right? Who's just like all energy. And she's like, yeah, I did that and that was awful. So what about like could I find a normie, you know, to sort of mess with and corrupt but also like that's not going to pull the switchblade. Now, here's my question. You know, in the quickie mart.

Because I remembered it being this way and then rewatching it, it was more unclear to me. Do you think she, from the moment she sees him in the coffee shop, goes, I need a guy to bring to my reunion. This guy's a good model. Well, no, I think it's when she sees him, you know, not pay that. That must be what trips her. That's what I mean. Or do you think it's more in the hotel? Right.

That's the question. Is it like, is she picking up guys? Is it a two stage thing? Right. Right. Because I don't, I don't think she has a plan the entire time. Sure. Maybe not.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Because I don't think she has a plan the entire time. Sure. Maybe not. Right. Right.

I think that's a little too, like she becomes, you know, an incredible genius at that point. Sure. Of like, you know, she's got a master plan. I think she's sort of living by the seat of her pants a little bit. Let me whisk this guy away. And she has sex with him in the motel and it's good. And he has that phone call where he actually proves that he you know instead of just going like get me out of these handcuffs right now you have my

boss on the phone right you know he like goes along with it and i think she's excited by it and right but there's a part of me that wonders if that's all testing not to make her sound like a criminal mastermind but she also strikes me as the kind of character where she unconsciously right maybe would never admit this to herself. But that's sort of something she's worried about. She is on her way out of town. Right. And knows that to some degree, whether or not she would ever connect these dots herself,

that she wants to show up at her reunion with another guy because of the looming threat of Rey. Even though she thinks he's still in prison, that it's like a risk she doesn't want to take. It's not just Rey, though. I think part of it is like she's this person who's like a risk she doesn't want to take it's not just Rey though I think part of it is like she's this person who's like like a great demicharacter very empathetic

yeah and she can read people very easily and she knows what her mom wants her to bring through the door but what she does not know is that her mom

sees right through it which I love yeah an amazing moment because in a normal movie I think her mom would just be a flat wallpaper character it would be a comedic scene of like,

when is her mom going to find out the truth? And instead her mom knows it from the jump. And there's no, there's just a cut. They're washing dishes. And she goes, so you have like a real life at kids, right?

It's just like, that's the entry point. But I, I, I think it also could be that she's on her way out of town. Yeah. And she gets more into this guy, the more it goes along.

Sure. And it pops in her head, I think, the day of going to see the mom of like, well, why don't I take him? Sure. You know what I mean? I think it's a slow, I think on both of their parts, it's a slow like learning to like the other person more and more as they hang out. And they're kind of playing chicken too. She's like well what if we did this? And he's like okay like I'd do that right?

They're all. She's like well now you're my husband in front of my mom. And he's like okay sure. She's just constantly throwing him into the deep end. What's the name tag line where he's like I never really had a strong opinion about them when the girl is like you know. Oh sure. Right. That's he's he's willing to go

with stuff he doesn't need to wear his sort of jeff daniels label but she is i mean she's a very scared character despite the film setting up initially as like whoa what a fearless woman putting him in handcuffs all that kind of stuff but there's these larger substantial things that she's incredibly terrified of you know her ex-. And maybe her mom, too. Her mom, I think, too. The way that the people who actually know her will judge her. Her classmates, all sorts of stuff. Is she afraid of what they think of her? If she moves to New York City and she gets a Louise Brooks bob, you know, and all the

bangles and the crazy car and whatever, she is— A lot of bangles. A ton of bangles. It's bangle heavy. I will say also having—here's something that happened at my 10th year reunion. Congratulations, by the way. Yes, thank you so much. It was just the other day.

You made it. Everyone came in kind of like putting on airs and trying to be the most successful versions of themselves, much like Melanie Griffith does in this movie. And I saw someone who was – in school was one of the like popular girls who never talked to me. And I started talking to her. I was like, so what's going on? She's like, well, I don't have a job. I just moved back in with my parents.

And it was so like, she was just so alive and telling the truth. Yeah, that's awesome. It was like incredible. I was like, this is the most fascinating person here. And Melanie Griffith does not have the courage to do that in this movie the way that she does in New York City. Jeff Daniels is

more terrified of the little things on a day-to-day basis, and she's more afraid of the bigger things like that. And when you, you know, anyone who dresses in sort of that outsized way has created that much of a persona, is ultimately trying to take control.

You know? Much like the way you're dressed today. Yes. We should mention. I'm wearing a zoot suit. Yes. Of course. I have a feather in your hat.

You also have a green mask on. I don't know exactly what's going on right now. I have a green mask on. Somebody, please stop me. You were smoking. I was smoking. We should mention. You pointed at it and said something.

I can't remember what. I recently read the comic. Very different. All these years later. Very different. Yeah. Something wild comic? Yeah, there's something wild.

Yeah, it's based on a star comic. Oh, boy. No, but I was going to say, I mean, it's that thing of like you want to control what people think of you. I'm going to establish such a strong persona and such a strong aesthetic keep you at a distance totally it's that thing where it's like whether you like this or not i know that everyone's going to look at me and go oh wow that girl's wild it's also fun it's fun i was a punk yeah i like dressing up it's also a way to sort of signal to other people that's the point it's a signal but you're signaling to people like this is who I am, you cannot come to any other conclusion about me.

You can like me or hate me, but I'm showing you exactly who I am. You can't place a reading on me. I will say that I think I wish there was one scene where he it is beautiful the way that she like breaks down her walls and gets rid of that. Like, hey, the distance she puts him at but I wish there was maybe one scene where he got to know her a little bit more other than just all the fake stuff you know what I mean it doesn't really ever

slow down in that way this movie yeah the one scene that bums me out and I wonder if it's like you could have removed that scene and put this scene in is the one where she gets really angry at him for lying I think we both feel that way about those scenes in movies you could have removed that scene and put this scene in is the one where she gets really angry at him for lying. I think we both feel that way about those scenes.

It's my least favorite type of scene that can exist in any movie. I just put one into a movie I directed. So look, I get it. I just, dishonesty is what bothers me. I want people, movie characters to look me in the eye and tell me the truth. No, but it is always kind of like a frustrating slowdown part of the movie, you know? Yeah, I don't know. Defend your scene. Okay.

I'm not putting your scene on trial. No, no, no. As someone who just had to do it. I didn't have to do it as much as you need characters to be at odds with each other. And when you're doing what I did, which is a comedy movie, which has like the mere, you know, kind of a very threadbare plot. Sure. It is a shorthand a little way to like be able to have drama in scenes, you know, between characters is like, well, one of the characters is lying to the rest of the characters

and then it all comes out. You're poking at these conventions. A little bit, but you also need characters to be mad at each other. And for the movie that I did, we shot several scenes where they're mad for different reasons and that's the one that stuck, you know?

Yeah. But I do agree. I get a little like, okay, come on, you're i'm very i'm a very logical person too so when i see someone like when i see her saying like you were lying to me my in my head i'm always like well you were lying too this doesn't make any logical sense right it's it's very obvious why he was lying to her there's a certain sort of psychology that makes sense to her being like i'm the one who lies.

I feel betrayed because I picked you because you seemed honest. But it is still very hypocritical of her to have any judgment. She drives off and literally stops two seconds later. So it's the best version of that. And then throws the gun in slow motion. There is a weird reversal to her being angry because she's essentially saying like, I thought I was sleeping with a married man with kids. And that was part of it for me. Right.

Which is really funny. You're just some schmo? Yeah. You know. Because to a certain degree. I wanted to be the one who gets to lie. Exactly. You're just a sad guy.

And I thought you were lying about and being exciting while lying. And instead, you're just lying all the time. I think there's a certain security to her being the one who lies and – right. Sure. And putting him in the situation where he has to lie. Yes. Instead, suddenly she's the one who's being – has been manipulated. Right.

She's been controlling his narrative. The other thing is I think she likes the idea of him being a married family man because it puts bumpers on – Yes. That means that he can't fall for it. He has to go back to normal life. This isn't going to be a well-treated man. Ray Liotta shows up and says get the fuck out of here and breaks his nose.

The easiest thing for him to do at that point is to go back to his wife. I don't need this. Don't walk in the door and be like well, I had a... Yeah, I ran into a door, honey. It's such a good touch. I had forgotten all the stuff with his wife and kids in the movie, not having seen it in a handful of years. And when there are the scenes early on where he steps away to call his wife.

Yeah, and you hear the busy signal. Yeah, and I was like, what a weird – did they just not remove that from the soundtrack? Was it like because it was a real payphone? Like I had forgotten that was a pointed plot thing. Sure. Right. Oh yeah. And I thought it was like a film goof.

Oh. One of those film goofs? Yeah. Did you check the IMDb goofs page? Flubs and goofs. But it is such a good detail that like at that point you're ostensibly supposed

to take him at face value and he's selling that phone call so hard. But that's the first time where you're like, oh shit, he's lying too. Something weird's going on. Yeah. Something weird. Something wild. Something wild. Also something different, daring

and dangerous. Sure. Of course, yes. So I will say if we're talking about theme, I think the other thing that was really hammered home for me this time that I was watching is I'd always known it's about a guy who learns to loosen up or whatever so and so when i was 16 i was like yeah quirkiness is okay

embrace it you know that and that was sort of where i was but this time i was really just noticing how every scene is based on society not loosening up and how every scene is about the conventions that we have in conversation in politeness in the there there's a scene in um what is the daniel craig movie the serial killer fincher movie uh it's called a skyfall sky no is it it's uh he's a ruthless serial killer yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to say Zodiac for some reason, but there's a scene that I think about a lot of times where the killer at the end, um, Daniel Craig knows he's the killer and the killer

season was like, Hey, how's it going? And Daniel Craig doesn't want to let on that. He knows he's the killer and he's trying to get away and he's like, Hey, come on inside. And he comes inside and then gets trapped in the murder room yes yeah and the killer goes why did you come inside you know that i'm the killer you fucking moron is it's just fucking society that you feel like if someone asks you to do something you have to be polite now i'm gonna murder you and that's what this whole movie is is like society as a construct has all been built on these agreements between people which is that when you see someone you're polite to them and you have a nice conversation with them

and uh when ray liotta comes into the film and starts gradually poking at that kind of stuff and says like she must be great in bed right and and And Jeff Daniels puts a stop to it and is like, we don't talk about that. All the way up to the point where Jeff Daniels has just gotten the shit beat out of him and he's like handcuffed to a chair and he says to Ray Liotta like, violence isn't the answer, Ray,

and you're gonna find that out sooner or later. And he just sounds like, you know, his parents talking or something. He's becoming like moralistic. It's like the end of a G.I. Joe episode. Yes, he's moralizing to this guy. That was what was really fascinating to me this time was just how every scene is about that, is about society has been built on these agreements we make with each other that we are not going to go crazy, that we're not going to flip out, that we're not going to break the rules.

And every scene is about that until finally the end where he, you know, I know he doesn't kill him intentionally, but where he, you know, realizes that violence is the answer at some point. Like, what a beautiful Demi touch.

It's all faces. And that also, it's Rey don't Rey don't he sees him turn around too quickly he knows the knife is out he has no intention of killing this man

but I just like that it's all in their faces you don't see the knife going in or anything you don't need to and the only blood you see is when he does

the hair move which is so fucking cool um Roger Corman apparently taught Demi like with the villains whenever you're directing

villains tell them they're the nice guy. Like talk keep telling the actor like you're and apparently Demi would keep going up to Leota and be like you're the nicest guy.

You're the nicest guy in this scene. Yeah. Like trying to pump him up like you think you're the hero here. Like that was apparently like his big move.

It worked so well. I do think yeah what you're saying Scott is like that's the larger thing this movie is interested in is like why does anyone behave any way? Any way. Why do we do the things we do?

And then, you know, yes, it's- Why have we settled on this being normal? It's sort of cliche that he quits his job or whatever. But at that point, I think Jeff Daniels' character realizes that everything is a sham. And everything that he said, the entire movie At that point, I think Jeff Daniels' character realizes that everything is a sham. Right.

And everything that he said the entire movie and the character he's been playing to Melanie Griffith, to his wife, to everybody, to society. And the characters we all play to each other are basically just bullshit. And so why not just be whatever he wants to be? I mean they're both people who kind of don't know who they really are. But they're dealing with it in very different ways. Right. Which is what I think they find in each other,

what immediately jumps out to them. It's also why they're both attracted to Ray Liotta because he is very much like, I know exactly who I am and I am in charge of everything. He's just a shark. It's like so clean.

You know, obviously, she's afraid of him when he reenters, but Jeff Daniels is attracted to him. He wants to hang out with this guy. And that scene where the cars pull up next to each other and the other Wall Street guy is like, hey, want to get some pizza? Yeah.

And Rhea Leone is like, pizza? Get out of here. Which, by the way, the wife's performance in it, she's the lead singer of Suburban Lawns? Yes. Is that right? Sue Tissue. She is so funny in the movie. So funny.

And I went down this rabbit hole because I was like, who is this woman? Her energy is so weird is so funny in the movie so funny and I went down this rabbit hole because I was like who is this woman her energy is so weird she's got a funny face right so I looked her up

saw that she was the Sir Ruben Long singer there's this whole thing online about the fact that this is like her last appearance

in anything ever yeah she released no new music after this movie the group had disbanded right she had done the one EP the one LP and then had done a music after this movie. The group had disbanded. She had done the one EP, the one LP, and then had done a solo album.

This movie, and then she disappears. And there's like vast online communities of people trying to figure out what happened to Sue Tissue. Interesting. Because she kind of was, the root of it seems to be. Because their album was years before this movie. Correct. It's 81, I think. Yeah.

This is her last thing. And her only acting role, they had gotten big because Demi directed their first video, which then aired on SNL. Back when SNL used to just be kind of like a collection pot for like Penn and Teller can do a routine and we'll play someone else's short film, which would be so cool to see come back. Oh, yeah. Totally.

What were you going to say? It's rooted in... Well, I think what's interesting is I was reading all these different articles. I found 20 different articles of people being like, searching for Sue Tissue, and all of them come down to whether they're the person searching themselves writing the article or someone writing

about the phenomenon of how many Facebook groups there are looking for her. They all seem to be that she represented this kind of Lulu-esque figure for dorky dudes who saw her perform or saw her on TV and were like, this seems like the wild alt girl of my dreams. So she's the manic pixie dream girl for them. Right.

They never knew her. And after like the sort of like public agreement of like, you remain a front-facing person you will continue doing art i don't need to know you personally yeah but i will continue having a relationship with you through your music and your on-camera appearances and whatever the fact that she disappeared and turned her back on all of that yeah right and none of these guys are coming at it from this possessive angry way but it's all clearly rooted in like this was my dream girlfriend when I was 17 years old, and I have no idea what happened to her, and it kind of drives me crazy.

And people are just like, I heard maybe she's a teacher, maybe she lives here, maybe she does that. It's also just hard to not have a, like, not be traceable. Well, I mean, she's using a pseudonym, which is... They know her real name now. I mean, it's using a pseudonym, which is – Right. But even they know her real name now.

I mean it's public knowledge and she – they still haven't been able to find her. And even like her bandmates are like the last time I ever saw her was the day we agreed to break up the band. Wow. There was no communication, which is a year or two before this movie even. Wow. Just on her performance, I do have to say like it's not the performance a lead singer of a band would normally do. Yes. It is so underplayed.

Right. It's so just real in a way. It's really an incredible performance. Especially for this odd, like, post-punk, like, very radical sort of, like, performance already. She's just playing such a normal person. Right. And it's really wonderful. And she's just playing such a normal person.

Right. And it's really wonderful. And a movie with lots of, I mean, John Sayles and all these directors are popping up playing weird one line roles. And Tracy Walter, who's like in most of the Demi movies and is a couple years away from playing Bob the Goon. Yes. Right. Always plays these kind of like scummy, sort of unsavory types. Married to the Mob, he's the chicken guy who makes her. Yes.

And then in this movie, he plays like a liquor shop owner who acts like a British gentleman. And he's got the big pipe. He's dubbed in that scene and I can't tell why. No. Like,

I, because he talks normal when he's on TV. Yes. He talks, he does his regular voice when he's on TV, but when he's in that scene,

they have looped the scene with him talking British. Yes. I can't tell why. Do you think afterwards he was like, what if that'd be funny? I've got a pipe already. They might have to justify the pipe. Well, I also feel like it was like they felt like the scene needed something or something. So they brought him in.

They're like, we need a boost on the scene. Just talk British. Like, ah, yes, I do remember that that's the back limit. The scene needed something wild. He is also inexplicably like a fifth build

in this movie. Yeah. He gets single solo car building. I think Charles Napier is angry chef is fourth build. This is something

we've talked about watching all the Demi movies is he's one of those directors where every single actor with more than one line gets opening front billing. Well, that's great. I love. The Feelys. The Feelys are in there. Sister Carol.

Sister Carol is in there. Sister Carol is great, by the way. Who is also in Married to the Mob as well. These two movies are twins. Oh, I failed to put that together. She's the hairdresser. Of course, of course, of course. Speaking of the casting,

one other thing that I was very inspired by in this movie, not this last time I watched it, but the time previous to this, and it sort of ties in with what we try to do on the Comedy Bang Bang TV show, but this is one of the times

where this and Pee Wee's Playhouse to me, the way that jonathan demi populates the world of the movie uh is not the way that directors were doing yeah uh back back in this time period um my wife and i sometimes will be watching movies and like if we see an asian uh background member or a person with one line, we'll go Asian. And then 100% of the time they are Asian for a reason. Meaning I was watching Smokey and the Bandit recently and we were like one of the truck drivers was Asian. I was like, whoa, Asian. Sure. And then he screams bonsai.

Okay. You know, and that is what. They've never just cast an actor who happens to be happens to be Asian so so there there there is a thing where back in that time period you felt as a director like you had to explain why there there were these reasons why you would cast a person of color in this and it would be distracting if it wasn't a white person and you felt like you had to explain so for instance even in quick change like all of the black people in the movie are there to be intimidating sure you know and that it's code for when they pop up it's like oh we're in a bad part of town you know what i mean so but this is this is one of those movies where

and and when i was watching the peewee's play's Playhouse extra material when the Blu-ray came out, it was just something that kind of seeped into my subconsciousness about how Jonathan Demme just is not concerned with – he's not concerned with like populating the movie with people of color for no reason just to do it. He's more concerned – and this is where it differs from married to the mob in my opinion he's concerned with reality right in the scenes and and so he wants to make every every time that you get to a new location there will be something like the rap group practicing outside the convenience store and he and he's a director who sees he lives in new york city and he sees this kind of stuff and And so he's like, I think that's fun when I see that on the street. So I'm going to put that in front of the convenience store. But it also is very real.

Like when Jeff Daniels parks at the church and the little girl who comes up to him, it's not like he's doing it just to do it. It just seems like that – he has made a – it's the most real background casting I've seen in a movie maybe ever. I mean it's just – it just feels like life. Every situation feels very lived in. It feels like he was such an appreciator of like cultures and culture at large and he liked being able to like put as much in the stew as possible. All the music. He's using a lot of reggae. He's using a lot of reggae. He's using a lot of Latin music.

And New York City in like the 80s and the 90s, especially like the village where he's living, is so much a melting pot of everything. Yeah. And it really was, it was something that I was sort of dealing with on the Comedy Bang Bang TV show in a way of, with that show, we got to cast whoever we wanted.

And we, we usually didn't audition people that much, unless it was kind of a specialty part where we needed something specific and we didn't know a UCB person who could do it. Right. So it was something in the, in the first year that you sort of find yourself like leaning into your biases a little bit where like people, you know, best or well, no, not even that where, let me give you an example so we had to cast a cop in something right and and it's they come to you with you know at a moment's notice they're like who do you want as the cop in this thing and then you got to search

through your mental rolodex of people you know of like who you want as a cop and so your automatic thing especially when you're doing comedy is to say okay who is the most like imposing white guy i know right who's a guy with like a mustache and broad shoulders like tall the iconographic notion and then you start going like well does it have to be that and then you then you go well we're doing a comedy scene so if we're doing a comedy scene they're all based on tropes of like previous comedy scenes and society tropes and stuff like that. So you so you find yourself when you're doing comedy playing into that a little too much of like, well, no, we can't have it be a woman or anything else, because then you would have to explain it too much. Right. And the joke wouldn't come across. That's the excuse you start to give yourself.

Sure. We need to make this as simple as possible. Yes. Sure. We need to make this as simple as possible. Yes. Right. And so then the second season, I was just like, I watched, I think it was then that I watched

the Pee Wee's Playhouse thing and I started thinking about this. I think I saw this around then too and I was just like, Cowboy Curtis is such a good example of,

in no way would Larry Fishburne be the obvious choice of life. Yes. Who's like an old westerner. What's her name? Who's like an old western and what's her name who's the male person? Reba, the male lady, Esopatha.

All of that and they were talking in their interviews about I never got the opportunity to play this kind of character. And so I just basically started saying like fuck it. It never is confusing to an audience.

When I saw Something Wild, I was not confused of like, what are all these people of color doing in these minor roles? And sometimes not minor, like the guy in the convenience store is so funny. And they're not trying to tell me anything other than it's just that would be the truth in Virginia of who was doing these things. So I started doing that on the Comedy Bang Bang TV show where it was just like, no, we'll just – we'll cast whoever we want and no one ever said anything about it. Because no one is ever confused by it ever again. a thing that I think doesn't get talked enough about with Key and Peele which especially in the later seasons they felt

it seemed like they felt very emboldened to just be like well we'll write whatever sketch and we'll be the two people in it whether or not

this would be a sketch about two black guys and it goes from being like the first season which is very much based on like race and culture because I think that's

the Trojan horse they use to sell the show yeah whereby later seasons it's like they're playing german nazis right and they're playing like british game hunters continental breakfast is like all that stuff right but they're like certain sketches where they're like this literally could not be black men right based on this time and this geographic region and the positions they have and all of that and they just were like but it's a fucking sketch and we'll wear the costume and do the accents. None of

it's real. Have I talked to you about Armando Inouye's movie yet? The David Copperfield movie that's coming out next year where he has cast, he has gone to the full extreme where characters of color are parents to a white child or vice versa. He makes no effort to,

he doesn't care. There's no effort to have things line up generationally or anything like that. He's just like, I'm just casting actors who I like and that's it. We were doing that in Comedy Bang Bang and similarly we were casting like I want to be very non-specific

about stuff because I don't want to necessarily blow up actor spots or whatever like that, but we were casting, uh, like I want to be very nonspecific about stuff cause I don't want to necessarily blow up actor spots or whatever like that. But we were casting some parts similarly of, of the offspring of someone else. And we were like, is, do we need to explain to the audience of like that they're a different race or whatever like that?

No one ever cares. Like no one, everyone just sees it and goes, Oh, adopted or like makes whatever mental connection they need to make in their mind, and no one ever gives a shit. There was one point where a director came up to me, or maybe it was a producer or something, and was like,

do you think we need to explain to the audience why this is happening? And I was like, no. Yeah. Just go away. And you never do. I mean, it's that thing like in the Josh Trank Fantastic Four movie, where it's Michael B. Jordan and Kate Marr are siblings, and you're like, this is cool.

And you're like totally with it, and then there's one moment where they're like, yeah, she was a war child from Kosovo that we adopted. They do explain it in the movie, that's right. And it's the one you don't have to. Right, and look, the movie's not good. But you're totally accepting the two of them as siblings, and you can create whatever backstory you want in your head, or not think about it because it's a fucking made up movie about people who turn to fire. Only human torture turns into fire.

A person who turns into fire. Okay. But the second they say it. Back to Jonathan Demme though. I love this movie for that of just not only does he put a fun aesthetic into every location where there's an interesting person who, you know, and a lot of times it's John Waters or whomever, his buddies. Yeah. But it just gets very real to me.

And every scene feels very lived in. And in a way that you would not be able to write into a script. I can only imagine the script didn't have any of these kind of details. And that's what a good director does. A good director comes and adds a whole aesthetic to the movie and makes it a very fleshed out, lived in world which I really appreciate. He is such a great

sort of case study in what does a director do? To a certain degree, if someone asked me that question I would pick a Demi movie and go like, it is so clear what he is contributing here. Right. Because certain people whose thumbprints are more visible, it also limits what they do where it's like, well, but they're only picking material that conforms to their sensibility. And he was so good at adapting to all of these things.

and he was so good at adapting to all of these things. He said he was drawn to the script because it had that tonal shift and he's just like, no one's handed me a script like this. Like I just, no one is doing this right now. Yeah. And this movie is coming out

the year after After Hours and it's the same year as Blue Velvet. That's the other movie that this feels like really of a piece with is After Hours. But those movies are, I mean Blue Velvet. Oh, different, different. But After Hours and this both feel like

they're coming out of the same sort of. But After Hours, I feel like it's all escalation. Like it's just like things get crazier and weirder and crazier and weirder. And it's all one night. And it sort of almost feels like a dream he's having. And also the key to After Hours is that he's kind of a piece of shit. Like the movie doesn't. I love that movie too.

Right. Yes. Right. 100%. And then Blue Velvet is a little slower and is a little more like, right, let's take a peek at sort of the underbelly. But that's the same year as this they are sort of companion movies in a weird kind of blue velvet yeah blue velvet has that tonal shift mid-scene right exactly which was very confusing to me because i saw it the same year 86 yeah and i will say i walked in

five minutes late the first time i saw it and was kind of confused. What's going on? But I was laughing during scenes and I was like, oh, this is bad. I'm laughing because this is bad. And then the second time I saw it,

I was like, oh, no, I think I'm laughing because it's intentional. They're doing their job. Yeah. And there's that notorious Roger Ebert review

of Blue Velvet where he's like, I can't handle what they're doing to Isabella Rossellini in this movie. Yeah. Where he couldn't be on board

with the tonal shifts. He's like, I love this person and then you're tormenting her. He was like, this is a film of incredible craft. I don't understand why they're doing to Isabella Rossellini in this movie. Where he couldn't be on board with the tonal shifts. He's like, I love this person, and then you're tormenting her. He was like, this is a film of incredible craft. I don't understand why they're applying this craft and making me feel this uncomfortable. Which, you know, I think people just sort of had to catch up to. Yeah. He came around on one.

This isn't as sadistic, but like Ray Liotta is sort of a sadistic character. I mean, he's, you know, once he enters the movie, everything is sort of like itchy. I will say okay just talking about construction now and in order to get jeff daniels to murder ray liotta without the audience turning their back on him it's a delicate construction of something right i i wonder if there is a version of this movie where it's not an accident that sure ray liotta runs into the into the knife would that be interesting i also think the fact that you then ray liotta basically escalates his assault on melanie griffith to basically he's going to sexually assault her in that scene and that's why it

escalates a little bit. I wonder, was that necessary? That's sometimes a crutch for most types of movies. So I, I wonder if it would have been, I look when I was 16, I maybe wouldn't have liked it if,

if it wasn't an accident, cold-blooded murder. Yeah. You know what I mean? So woman. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if,

and, and you know, and if that wasn't part of it where he's going in there and like saying, okay, fuck it, everything I've said about violence, I'm throwing it out the window because she's about to be raped. Sure. I don't know. It's such an interestingly complex moment too because it's like, well, he's anti-violence, but also in this moment with the stakes and the danger being this high, he does pick up the knife and he holds it out in front of him. I think he is not

anti-violence anymore. I think he's ended the movie just realizing that that's something people say. I think he is standing there trying to figure out exactly what he's going to do, but he's going to use that knife in some way, whether it's just to threaten him or to try to stab him in a non-lethal way. I mean, he's choking the guy to death.

I don't think he's choking him just to knock him out. You know what I mean? And it's self-defense. Can I read you a Demi quote? This is an interesting quote about this. He says, when he's reading the script, there was a quote, there was this theme of the flip side of putting on your neat suits and committing a certain kind of financial

violence as a successful European corporation. And the dark side of that guy is Ray, who's more of like a fundamentally violent person who solves problems, you know, with his fists. I added the with his fist. Demi didn't say that. But that's an interesting question is like Ray Liotta basically is out there.

They're both inflicting financial violence. They both have financial reasons for doing what they're doing. And just Jeff Daniels characters are socially acceptable. Right. And is that something that he figures out and why he quits his job? They don't explain it, but probably. He's certainly paying for his meals by the end of the movie.

Yeah. Yes. So that's progress for him. So he's learned one lesson. Exactly. Good for him. Can we talk about how funny he is in this movie by the way like he he there are two things that i would when i was 16 i saw this that me and my friend would do all the time which are uh when when he's on

the bed with melanie griffith and she brings out the maracas and shakes him and he just suddenly mimes goes and like shakes it we would i thought that was so funny and then when she says to melanie griffith says to her mom that he's handy around the house and he mimes a hammer and goes it's like just two parts that made me laugh so hard when i was 16 and matthew modine has a lot of those types of yeah he's even more right energy and there's the scenes in married to mob like where they start, what is it, roaring for Tony the Tiger and stuff. Where it gets kind of a little extra real.

Too cartoony in a way. But it's more the tone of that movie. Look, I like that movie a lot. I just, seeing this, everything is so real in it. Other than the parts that get Married to the Mob to me are like John Waters saying now we talking you know

and stuff like that but I love married to the mob too this is so tightly focused too it's really just these two characters and then Leota

whereas married to the mob is more of like a big goofy ensemble that people are coming in and out but is that thing you're saying I mean I'm now

just thinking about that like blue velvet after hours married to the mob right not married to the mob I'm sorry something wild trif that blue velvet after hours, married to the mob. Right. Not married. I'm sorry. Something wild trifecta where it is like let's pull back the curtain of normalcy and start acknowledging how weird things are.

Yes. Like how fucking weird people are and all these things that we refuse to actually talk about that we're all thinking or feeling or doing. Yeah, which was an 80s thing. Yeah. But because the 70s, what were they dealing with? They were just dealing with like, hey, everyone drop out

of like all this bullshit. Well, also the 70s were the first movies where they're like, yeah, society is fucked up. Right. The war, mental illness, you know, these are the movies

where we can finally put this on the screen for the first time. Like the 80s were this weird revival of a certain like 50s-esque like sensibility of like, we have to. But then they're poking holes. Right. And that was rather of a certain like 50s-esque like sensibility of like we have to – But then they're poking holes. Right.

And that was rather than like in the 50s it being like a sense of like traditionalism, like this is proper. In the 80s, it was also hidden behind this sense of like achieve, succeed, like have the status, have the wealth. In 1986 when I was seeing this, I'm seeing it in Republican Orange County. High to the Reagan era. High to the Reagan era. High to the Reagan era. I mean, everyone involved in this movie, from the people on the soundtrack to the director to the actors, are ostensibly not enjoying what's going on in politics at the time. Right. And that is most movies that were coming out at this time.

One of my favorite movies of all time, Back to the Future, one of the biggest flaws of that movie is his happy ending is he gets a truck. Right. You know? And he goes, and the music swells, and he's like, oh, man. And he's got a nice truck. Yeah. And so many movies are about financial security. Yeah.

And having more than your neighbor has and all that and and so this is one of those first films i think that i had seen that was that was about saying like hey no it's not about that he kind of throws it all away he throws it away but it not in a weird triumphant way where it's like you know the movie is unambiguously like and now no he doesn't have the scene where he like kobe bryan takes off his jersey and throws it he seems thoroughly depressed by the end of the movie but the one thing no safety net right but he's just learned like none of that was actually making me happy and i was spending so much energy trying to tell everyone else that i was happy yeah vice president he's bragging about it all the time and he doesn't give a shit no like whereas after hours ends with him

just showing up at work sitting down and the work day begins yeah and that's more the sort of like, well, nothing is going to change. Right. By the way, I like the scene where Jack Gilpin, Betty Gilpin's father. Yes. Says, how do you figure a guy like Ray? Oh, such a good line. My interpretation of it,

because Jeff Daniels doesn't really have an answer, is that Jeff Daniels is saying, well, I'm a guy like Ray. Yeah. Daniels doesn't really have an answer is that Jeff Daniels is saying, well, I'm a guy like Ray. You know, like I killed Ray and it's society. It's it's acceptable in society the way that it happened. But I am. We're no different. You know what I mean? But it's also that whole I mean, Jack Gilpin's so good.

And he just looks at Jack Gilpin and he's like, oh, you don't get it yet. He's got such a face. Yeah. Like such a dopey face. A great dopey face. But there's also this whole thing with the Jack Gilpin character where like, you know, Daniels is so freaked out that Melanie Griffith

is going to expose him to Gilpin, which at that point- Yeah, to his boss, to everyone. But he's so mortally terrified about the fact that Gilpin is there at the reunion. He has to see all of this. He can't deny it. He can't reframe it. And also the fact that Gilpin is there at the reunion. He has to see all of this. He can't deny it. He can't reframe it.

And also the fact that Gilpin has been talking about him behind his back. He doesn't even know that. He doesn't even know that. Like he's so obsessed with his image and being like, hey, vice president, everything's cool. The fact that Gilpin has been saying behind his back like, oh, this guy's destroyed.

He wants to maintain a thing that he doesn't realize this guy is mocking him for. He's already been seen through. Right. And then immediately. And Gilman's like, whoa, this guy. Right. He's so impressed.

He's like, who fucking knew? You know? Like, what a good rebound. I thought this guy was done. And throughout the way that he keeps on. Like, now he's like, well, let's get breakfast. Let's hang out more. That's what the great thing is, is even that is a sham.

So by the end of it when he's like dude why are you leaving like he's got he's finally gained you know it's like you've gained my respect again yeah and it's like and then that guy who attacked you is like so different than you like how do you figure a crazy fucking guy like that and it's like well you just don't get it yet you're not you're not maybe ever gonna get it well the other element too is like how do you figure a guy like ray is like look that guy's violent and scary and now with the end we came to i know i don't want to be him but also how do you live that sort of like unattached to anyone's expectations or perceptions of you you know how do you get to that point even if it's to a negative end where you are living that

honest a life where ray just doesn't give a fuck yeah he just does what he's gonna do he does what he's gonna do at every single moment yeah another movie this reminds me of in a weird way is a movie that also ends with a bloody confrontation in a bathroom which is fatal attraction the next year uh-huh it's the same kind of ending it's all like stark white and then blood on the tiles and all that but that's the movie where at the end like and they originally they shot it that glenn close killed herself and that was that right and everyone was like it's not juicy enough so they have it that ann archer like shoots her and then we're like back to normal like that movie is very much the opposite of this where

it's like thank god oh thank god the monster has been purged exactly and society is back to the last shot is like michael doug the portrait of michael douglas and ann archer like they have a nice picture like the camera like rests on it and it's like it's okay like yeah don't worry the monster yeah if there's a monster in your life you can kill it as well yeah right well that's what i love about the fact that she's affected a new persona at the end of the movie where it's like he didn't cure her. He didn't bring her to a normal state. That was more her trying to impress all the people who she actually cares about in terms of judgment. I do think the blonde hair, I wish she had gone back to the dark hair.

I agree. Fully agree. And that's not for me like going, it gives me more of a boner. I just mean to say that— This is just a great look. It's a very chic look. I just mean to say blonde, it was code in the 80s for like the blonde cheerleader, the all American dream girl. The sort of John Hughes like lexicon, visual lexicon very much. Right.

And it is that thing. It's like, it's the same as the Ally Sheedy thing where you're like, it's kind of annoying that the movie, the Breakfast Club ends with them being like, well, but they like fixed her right yeah it was so easy she could just be pretty a normal but it is thematically appropriate in the breakfast club because that is what they all they're all just like can't i just be normal like oh my god you know that is what's actually you know driving most of those i just like that i feel like it's not a costume for her at the end right no it's her going like good yeah look guys, that was a phase. I've cleaned up. But the fact that this movie ends on

I feel like this take on the character that is her real self is the self that is constantly looking for other personas. Yeah. Well also it's fun to dress up. Yeah of course. You know what I mean? It's like it's fun to wear. She looks fucking cool at the end.

It might change. She might change her style five times over the next five years. But that is the real version of herself is the one who is constantly adopting new styles. Sure. And why shouldn't people – I mean like the cars she drives, her style, she looks fucking cool. She should be able to do that and that's not her like putting on poses or whatever. That's like her knowing how to dress. It's also the demi-filmmaking principle which is like why wouldn't i do the things that are most fun

yeah why would i worry about the things that feel realistic or normal or standard rather than making every scene the most interesting could be hiring the most interesting people yeah laying in the most interesting song on the soundtrack the colors too every color feels very vibrant and married to the mob as well like every location uh where if they're just going out to dinner, it is an interesting location. Right, right. And that's so incredible to me of like, you know, having just made my movie,

you go out on these location shoots and usually don't have a lot of money. And so you're just, like I was watching the scene where the guy pulls up to where Jeff Daniels is hanging out by the payphone and he pulls up on his motorcycle with the dog in the guy pulls up to the where jeff daniels is hanging out by the pay phone and he pulls up on his motorcycle with the dog in the back yeah and i'm like oh i would they would try to talk me out of that on my last movie because uh the dog is is a lot of money yeah um and the motorcycle is extra like all this kind of stuff that, that, um, even the car in the between two friends movie,

we had to settle for the, for what the car was because, um, we needed, uh, a double for the car in another part of the country. And the car we had settled on, which was really unique and fun.

They weren't going to be able to find that car on the other side of the country when we shot over there. So it was like, you have to, and they gave me three over there. Sure. So it was like, you have to, and they gave me three cars to choose from and we're like, they were normal cars and you have to pick one of these three because those are the only that we, you know, like just getting into those kinds of things and watching Demi basically be

able to do, I'm sure it was a discussion, but that was important to him. And he made sure that the resources were allocated to make sure that they could get the dog in the motorcycle because he happened to see that. Like that's a, in the credits, I think it's a famous guy with a motorcycle dog or something that he was

like, that's awesome. Let me put him in the movie. And every scene has those in a way of like, uh, stuff that a normal line producer would be like, do you really need this in the movie? And for Demi,

it's like, yeah, we do. I read a review, I think it was maybe a Marriage of the Mob review, I've been reading so many reviews from the time for all these movies, I've been watching them, and someone referred to him as like

the great collector of cinematic bric-a-brac. Right. And there is like his aesthetic of like when you briefly see Melanie Griffith's apartment and you're like, of course that's exactly what it looks like, of course it looks like a two it looks like. Of course, it looks like a two boots. Of course, it's like everything, you know. But even the scenes that take place in relatively normal environments, he finds ways to put things like that in, put different types of people in, put different energies, different activities.

Even where he goes and confronts Ray Liotta and, you know, the cops are there. That's a way more interesting restaurant than would normally be in that scene. Yeah. And, you know, when you're scouting locations like that, you all – you are sort of – I was very – I actually wrote a lot of the Between Two Ferns. I wrote it while we were shooting a lot of times. And I would write a scene because I our location manager Eric would bring me a really interesting location so you would write to it I would write to it yeah in fact the whole scene on the swans in the swan boat was not written yeah it just was like we we had another

scene that we had to do in that area so I said bring me other stuff in that area so we can fill the day and he brought me that lake and I looked at it in the swan boats and I just like started imagining a scene of the two of them on this swan boat, you know what I mean? And that's, it's very inspiring. That's the cool part about making a movie sometimes. And I think that's what Jonathan Demme seems to have done is like just getting inspired by a place that seems real, because when you're writing a script and especially back then like everyone who wrote a script is pretty much like a white dude right right with no with no real life experience you know like anytime i read a comedy script nowadays

i could i can always tell it's like a 28 year old comedy writer who doesn't know anything about life right yeah who's like great at jokes, knows nothing about life. So, but when you read a script, it's all very much like a writer can't even imagine an interesting place to put a scene in. No. You know what I mean? They just,

all they've seen are other movies and so they write what has been in other movies, which is the diner or whatever it is. Don't they often literally say like, like X place in X movie. Yes. A lot of times it's like that. And so for the Ferns movie,

what was interesting and I feel like we were doing it sort of like what maybe Demi did is just, I said to, to our location manager, Eric, just bring me interesting places and then I'll write the script around that, you know, which,

which, uh, you know, some of them didn't work out. Actually, Lauren Lapkus's character's house we had was so interesting and just the most nuts place we'd ever been to in the middle of nowhere that had every room was decorated different and was so crazy. And there was a massage chair in one room. I was like, OK, we're going to do a scene where she's like in a massage chair. Yeah.

We ended up having to even just cut out the shooting cause we were so over budget. And I was like, we don't need any more in the second act. But, but that's, that's what I see in Demi a lot of times is he's, I don't know that it's the reverse for him of like,

okay, okay. We need a, a restaurant. Just find me interesting places as much as he sees places and goes, I want to shoot there someday. Yeah, and I think there's also like the bric-a-brac element of just him like collecting things. I mean it's talked about so much that like he was so part of sort of the Lower East Side art scene

that he was going to all these shows, going to theater. So his mental Rolodex is filled with this sort of like Sister Carol. Why not have Sister Carol run the diner? And then sing a song over the credits. Then she should sing a song. Which, by the way, the other recurring element in the movie is the song Wild Thing, which I think is really interesting. David Byrne

in his opening theme works it into the song, which sets the scene. Then they sing it as they're driving they sing it a few different times in the car and it's all like different cover

different energy different energies and then she sings this incredible reggae version at the end which is not lip syncing

which is great because the version on the soundtrack is actually very different than the one I was trying to find I just have to rip it it also oh I have the soundtrack.

I can send you. No, but I mean the version from the movie. Oh, from the movie, yeah. There's no. It's one of those annoying things. But it also, you never think about how Wild Thing, the lyrics include the words like, I love you over and over again. Yeah.

Like if you slow that song down, it sounds very tender all of a sudden. It is the theme of the song, Wild Thing, I think I love you. Yes. I want to know for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for singing that. Yeah, well, yeah. You have a beautiful voice. all of a sudden it is the theme of the song Wild Thing I think I love you because I want to know for sure yeah yeah thanks for singing that you have a beautiful voice

oh I don't think so you should share it with the world more often and just to point out the script is basically what you're saying Emacs Fry he wrote this in film school

he was in his 20s and Demi just picks it off a pile and Emacs Fry has a pretty nondescript career where he like. Oh, he is an interesting person, right? He is.

He's in the New Order video. Yeah, he's an artist. So originally when I watched it a couple of days ago, I was like, who wrote this? I bet it was a script that was just kind of normal that Jonathan Demme Demme-ized. But I actually think Emax Frye is a more interesting person than that. That weirdness was in it. And Demme. I wish.

I mean, Fox. He finally got an Oscar nomination for Foxcatcher, which is sort of wild and may have been a situation... He wrote on The Alienist and Band of Brothers. The Foxcatcher script also might have been like he wrote it a long time ago and it got sort of picked up and rewritten because... I feel like he was a big part of it. I remember reading

interviews at the time where they were explaining the process. He was trying to make that movie forever. But I think Bennett Miller... And he wrote like Palmetto and Where the Money. He wrote these sort of like hard boiled, you know, late 90s movies. He wrote and directed Amos and Andrew. I've never seen that. Which is one of those things where you're like, this premise is

so risky but it is almost a film that someone should remake because there's kind of something in there. Do you know what the premise of Amos and Andrew is? I'm going to know what the premise of Amos and Andrew is? I'm going to show you the poster. Amos and Andrew is... I'm trying to remember

how this is set up exactly. Nicolas Cage is like a petty... Yes. I don't need to see the poster. I remember it, but I never saw it. He's like a petty thief.

I mean, I think he's pretty similar to his Raising Arizona when he's a redneck robber. Yeah, he's a scumbam. He's a scumbam. He's a scumbag. Scumbag. Scumbag. He's a scumbag.

Scumbag. But the main crux of the movie. He's reaching over to take Samuel Jackson's watch right on the poster. The main crux of the movie is that Samuel Jackson lives in a fairly wealthy suburban neighborhood. He's like an intellectual, right? He's like a writer. And the next door neighbors who don't know they've moved in see him bringing in their stereo system

and think that a black man is stealing the stereo system from the next door neighbors. Yes. And so they call the cops and it becomes a complete like sudden death swat surrounding the house situation. Very funny situation. Very deeply funny. And somehow Nicolas Cage ends up in the house with him.

The entire premise of the movie is that he is actually a criminal and no one thinks he is. And Samuel Jackson's in his own home and he's being surrounded by cops. The movie is not incredibly elegant. An interesting theme. I don't know if it lends itself to a comedy these days. No, not necessarily.

So yeah, I'd love to know what the deal was with him. I feel like what I remember hearing— Oh, yeah. No, was that Bennett Miller had been trying to crack Foxcatcher for a long time and couldn't, and then hired Emax Frye because he was such a big fan of the Something Wild script to take a pass at it and to try to get it to work. I wonder how much of the script made it into the movie.

That's what I'm interested in. For this movie or for— Something Wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. made it into the movie that's that's what i'm interested in is this movie or for something well yeah i i have to think i just don't think that him as a young guy in film school would have written scenes like the one in front of the church where the little girl comes up and asks if he's okay right or even the convenience store scene like a lot of it seems very way the convenience store scene just that he stays there and it escalates like maybe you write the beginning of that scene but then demi's like i feel like here's what i what i think probably happened is in the script it's he goes into a convenience store buys binoculars right and that's about it

and instead it in directing the film and maybe it's giving demi too much credit and emac's right not enough but it just seemed very every scene seems almost heavily improvised in a way. Definitely. But the bones of the script are so solid. I think the movie is so perfect structurally. Yes. Even just the fact that it's like, you know, I know you were saying that you wish that they revealed a little bit more of themselves to each other, but there's something kind

of nice to the fact that like you as the audience member don't know any more than they know about each other. Yeah. That you have the exact same amount of information, that the introduction is just him trying to, you know, stiff the bill, that it's this perfect little tiny meaningless act of rebellion at the beginning of the film. Right. That like sets the stage for everything and that being circled back around at the end. I wish I knew why she likes him.

That's the only, other than he's revealed himself. Other than, and this is true when two people are honest with each other and sort of strip away all the artifice from their life, that can get people closer

and maybe it's just that. I mean, look, people fuck all the time for no better reason than they want to fuck each other. And he's a cutie. He's a cutie. He's a good looking guy.

He and Modine are the two tall, floppy, golden lab boys. Daniel's really. He's such a dog. He is one of the funniest actors who's not ostensibly like a comic actor. Well, that's what's so funny about Dumb and Dumber is no one wanted to put him in that movie. Right. And when I saw Dumb and Dumber, I was like, oh, he's being funny again finally. There's that crazy story where everyone told him not to do D dumb and dumber i was like oh he's being funny again finally you know but but there's that crazy story where like everyone told him not to do dumb and dumber and because

he wasn't quote unquote a comedy actor they paid him 50 grand yeah to be in dumb and dumber yeah it was crazy like jim carrey got seven million yeah huh right but they were like jim carrey's been doing this for like five minutes doing movies he had two big movies earlier that year well the other the other problem is they i i read they never locked in his Dumb and Dumber contract. They meant to lock it in before Ace Ventura came out. And then they took too long. And the opening weekend it came out, it jumped up. And then every weekend after that, it kept jumping up a million until finally they were like, okay, $7 million.

Yeah, we'll get it. But it was supposed to be like $100,000 or something before Ace Ventura came out. His cable guy is $95,000 and that's $20 million. That's how quickly that all... It's that one year in that one calendar year, the mask Ace Ventura. Ace Ventura

was in like spring and mask was in the summer. Yeah. Dumb and Dumber at the end. Dumb and Dumber. Right. And it was like, yeah, I mean, the numbers are like it goes from him being like a hundred thousand guy to like a 750 guy to a seven million guy or something yeah within the space of months but jeff daniels is just like oh i think i'll be good in this and everyone's like you're not gonna be good in this right they're like taxing him they're like we'll let you do it but we're not gonna give you money they wanted him to turn it down that's why they offered him 50 grand. They were trying to insult him.

But he's arguably the best actor in that movie. He's funnier than Jim Carrey in that movie. That's not the movie where Jim Carrey, I mean, he's funny, but he doesn't leap. I don't remember his parts as much in that movie. No, and I feel like Jim Carrey has been very open about the fact where he's like, the whole thing was like Daniels and I together. Sure. Coming off of two movies

where it's just like Jim Carrey being Jim Carrey and everyone else is sort of like talking at him. And going, oh, you're being weird. Right. But that movie's so much like,

it is bizarre watching that movie and remembering like, oh, it has genuine scenes of emotion in it. Yeah. Cable Guy's 96. I just wanted to correct the record. I'm sorry.

Because he does the Ace Ventura sequel in 95. Yeah. It is interesting. They don't overdo it though. There'm sorry. Because he does the Ace Ventura sequel in 95. Yeah. It is interesting. They don't overdo it though. There are. No, I think it's like a good balance. But you're like.

It's weird. Like Ace Ventura literally has one scene where he drops the Ace Ventura stuff where like he feels bad about whatever he did to Courtney Cox. Right. I don't remember what it was. All I remember is he goes into the room to go like, hey, and almost to apologize. And the Ace Ventura character is dropped and then she's kidnapped

and so he doesn't have to do it right but it's like a bummer whereas like you have that one like I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired

well they always talk about that scene about how everyone wanted that scene cut yeah and Jim Carrey and everyone fought for it to be in there

because they said well this is the point of the entire movie which is interesting they're also the characters are so fucking dumb that you at least need to like for it to be in there because they said, well, this is the point of the entire movie, which is interesting. They're also, the characters are so fucking dumb that you at least need

to like understand what's driving them emotionally. Yeah, yeah. Because none of their decisions make sense on a scene-to-scene basis. Right. Watching this, you go like,

and you know, theatrically released studio comedies are barely a thing anymore. Yeah. But you're like, could you imagine if you went to a theater to see what was ostensibly a mainstream studio comedy film and there was a movie with this much personality?

Yeah. I don't know if anyone – I don't – I really – I know why I saw it. I don't know why anyone in the world would have seen it. You know what I mean? It was marketed. You're right. Look at the poster. It's marketed like, hey, this is

going to be a fun time. And Married to the Mob was the same thing. I feel like he was trying to make a hit. And in both cases, they did okay. And then Weirdly did better with critics. And he was like, no, I want to make something mainstream. I think he felt this pressure to make something that connected with audiences. And yet, then he's like

he makes a serial killer movie that everyone else is like, this is too gross. And that that's the one and then his aids drum is a blockbuster like he makes two that's true on paper incredibly uncommercial films sure i mean sounds like lambs was commercial i mean that was a big bestseller you know but it's so i mean you think about it is funny to think that people are like this is right this is too much procedural we would rather watch silence of the Lambs than this fun Married to the Mob movie. You're telling me this lady's married to the mob?

I'm out. Meanwhile, should we play the box office game? I feel like we should wrap up. Yeah, I feel like, is there anything else we want to talk about? There's a little moment, it's just a tiny thing I want to call out, but when Ray Liotta has sort of captured Melanie Griffith and he's driving her into the motel they're going to stay at,

there is literally a garbage fire. New Jersey. Yeah. There's just a garbage can on fire. Is there a Nacopella group around it? No. That's how dire things are. Not even a doo-wop group will surround this garbage can.

But honestly, that's the kind of thing that, again, back to this point, your line producer would try to talk you out of. We need to shoot. We don't have time. I went to scout this diner. And when I went to scout it, it was when just the regular people were there. And I saw this woman in a wheelchair there, like an older woman. And it suddenly brought back all of my memories of like growing up in a place that had a lot of diners like this. And I was like, oh, that's what this is, is this is a place that families go to.

And this is a place that where it's like this gets, you know, grandma out of the house and you know as hard as that is for her this to my mind shitty diner you know a place that i would never like if you were like hey where do you want to go out to lunch i would never even think about but that's the special place for them right and so i said you know make a note of it when we shoot here i want to have uh an older woman in a wheelchair um because that just made it real to me. Yeah. And that became a problem. Right, they were like,

there's no need for it in the script. There's no need for it. Why do you want this? It's going to distract. It's going to cost. Yeah, it's going to cost this much money. Why are you going to watch this? And weirdly,

with the blocking the way it ended up being, she is not in frame. Yeah. And it's such a bummer. To me, that's the interesting thing of trying to do that balance of make something real and make it a fully lived-in world that people are going to recognize and go like people who haven't – like you work on one film or one TV show and your perception immediately shifts from why aren't most things better to how does anything ever end up good. Yes. I don't want to cast an Asian actor unless it's explicitly in the script. That all the things that kind of make a movie transcendent, the little unspoken things, the things that aren't overstated, the details that are unnecessary but build out the world, are things that 15 B-encounters come in and go, we really don't need this. It truly is not the studio or the producers a lot of times. It's time. You're fighting against time.

It's allocation of energy and money and everyone's just thinking about like sometimes it's like where are we going to find this person like i i uh the the guy in fargo the asian actor in fargo is so funny you know and he's like speaking in that minnesota accent and i'm like you know it it may have been they just found the right actor for the role and he happened to be asian maybe he was Asian in the script. I don't know. But I'm imagining in the script it being Asian and someone coming to me as a director

and saying like, I don't know where we're going to find this person. This is just going to be too hard. Can we just compromise and make it, you know? That's the thing. It's so difficult. Everyone in every position has so many things to think about

at any point in time that very often people are trying to find the path of least resistance. Yes. And want to pick their battles very sparingly. And to have a movie like this where there's like this much Demi in every single shot. Yes. When there doesn't need to be.

When there's a very, very simple conventional version of this movie. The opposite of it is the opening montage. That's the flip side of it. The opening montage is all these New York shots and they are not the pretty. I was watching and kind of going, these are not pretty new york shots like there's that famous uh uh uh it's not seen but but part of the book about uh bonfire of the vanities where the the second unit guy uh goes off and gets a uh a shot of a plane landing and spends like a ton of money on and they're like what the fuck are you doing? This is not,

not even going to make, and he's, he's trying to do it right at sunset. He's trying, he's trying to get the plane landing at sunset and it costs a ton of money. Yeah. And they're like, this is not ever even going to make it into the movie.

Why are you spending this much money on a plane landing shot? And it's in there for like a quarter of a second. Meanwhile, like Demi is doing a montage trying to set the scene of his movie and the shots are not the star the song is the star right right and it truly is making a music video for this david byrne song he is and and that's what's interesting is like it's suddenly the shots are not pretty and they're not really uh interesting shots of new york so you start focusing on what is essentially a theme song to a movie, which is something they don't really do anymore.

And he's letting David Byrne set the tone for the movie that's about to follow. About to follow, yeah. I noticed, so the score for this movie is Laurie Anderson and John Cale. Yes, and John Cale had done the score for, is it KHT? It's one of the early Corman movies. Right, and Laurie Anderson did Swim to Cambodia. Right. Which didn't have that music in the stage production.

Right. Did they, do we know, did they do it together? I don't know if it was a collaboration. The music is fairly incidental. I mean, the score. But once Ray Liotta enters, the entire score changes. Right. The tone, the instrumentation.

Right. I wondered, I couldn't find an answer to it, but if it was like, you cover the comedy half, you cover this, I don't know which one did what or if they were working together on everything. Yeah, he uses a lot of pop music throughout the first half of the movie. And then, yeah. In fact, when I saw they had done the score, I made a mental note to try to listen to it. And I don't remember any of it until really kind of the final scenes.

It becomes – right. I mean that's the scene where it stands out the most is in the bathroom. But it becomes more of like a synthy thriller score. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. Box office game.

Yes. Yes. Great movie. I think it's a great movie. I think it rules. I really love it. It's been so much fun watching these movies. Yeah.

The eighties output. We haven't really done the nineties movies yet. I love when a chef runs out that trope and chasing them. That shot also lasts. But it's not. What's his name? Charles Napier. Yeah lasts but it's not what's his name Charles Napier yeah

I rate Chef that's his credit that shot lasts so long yeah like you keep on going like wow they're really making Charles Napier run here

and he's running for like 45 seconds into traffic yeah can I also say that that reminded me of the fact that the car shots

in this movie are done really well. I just directed a lot of car stuff and was trying to figure out how to do it in a way that was like aesthetically fit in for our movie. But on a technical level, it is hard. There are only so many places. There's only so many ways. That's what our script supervisor said to me at a certain point. She said, everyone always tries to figure out a new way to do it and then finds out that there is only one way to do it. But, um, but I, I watched,

I had never directed a car scene before or really anything. Um, but, uh, so I had, I watched a lot of different ones and the squid and the whale was one that I was trying to sort of base all of our car stuff on. But the interesting thing about the car stuff in this movie is it's all real. It's all done practically, which is very important to the reality of the movie i i personally do not like car scenes in they're in big budget movies now where you can tell it's a green screen looking at the road it's crazy it affects the performance it's not even they're not looking at the road or anything it's like they they sacrifice they go we want to the actor it's usually we want the actors to be able to focus on the acting and

not having to drive around things a moving car you know so they usually sacrifice it for their or or for some reason they want the shot to look prettier right to me it is a bad trade-off yeah the reality of the car shots in these movies is so great you can tell they're there and that scene where napier is chasing them is so great it so great. It's a practical shot of the car outracing this guy running at him. And he's running as fast as he can. They're driving. You just watch him lose distance every moment. But the one thing I want to say about the car stuff that I thought was really interesting and I had never noticed before is the fact that Demi shoots it from different angles.

Demi shoots it from different angles. When he first gets into the car and then all the way to going to the hotel, he shoots the three parts of that three different ways. And so he does French overs, the first thing, and then he does close-ups from the front to each person. And then the next time he does it, he does the two people in the shot close-ups from the front to each person. And then the next time he does it, he does the two people in the shot closeups from the front. And it's, I think he's doing it probably to make them not look samey. He's breaking it up that way. But I also wonder if he's doing it intentionally in order, like usually you do a French over

because it's like you're peering in on a conversation that you, it's a little more, you know, like, oh, wow, we're going to let you into this thing that, but it's interesting. I wonder if he did that intentionally. I think so. If he wants to like up the ante, they're going to know each other.

Sansa Lams is the most extreme example of it, but his coverage always feels so intentional and in a way that you know he had to fight for because people would be like, we don't need this shot. This isn't an effect. This isn't an important thing. And it's not just him collecting coverage

for the sake of having editing options. It always feels like he has very specific setups that can change within a scene to reflect the shifts in the dynamic between the two people talking. They're doing a car thing, and I don't know what tunnel it is. But basically they could have gotten away with not shooting that tunnel. Probably annoying. Probably annoying to everybody. shooting in a tunnel you know and probably annoying probably annoying to everybody but he knew he needed to to feel like this character is leaving his world yeah it can't it can't be a a cgi thing or it can't just be like oh we'll shoot it inside the car that energy at that point in the

movie yeah so what a good fucking director and last thought uh ray's apartment reminded me of a lot of the kinds of houses that I hung out in growing up. And it was like, I don't know. It was just like weird to see it on the screen and sort of thinking about her character and like escaping the hometown stuff. I was like, I was kind of happy that I'm in New York City and like have moved on with my life. Sure. Yeah. It is interesting. I could tell this time that that's a set and also the hotel where they first hook up. Yes. That's a set as well, you know.

Because so much of it is so real. Yeah. Well, you know, the part where like Jeff Daniels is looking at and going, oh, not much of a view. And then she comes over to kiss him and he like shuts the curtains. Then it turns into a set yeah you know which is like great but um but it it yeah so you're saying directing a film is ruined movies for you essentially no no no i mean everywhere i do talk i would talk to some of my crew people about what they focus on when they watch movies and i our script supervisor i was like do you just are you just looking for flubs the entire movie? And she's like, yeah, a little bit.

One thing that in our movie, I kind of, because of the way we were shooting, I was like, we cannot pay attention to continuity. I'm sorry. You know, like, you know, he shot a Peter Dinklage interview in the afternoon and then everyone changed clothes because they're getting on the road. And you know what I mean? What's also knowing your priorities where it's like you're not gonna throw out a take especially if there's this much improv involved well something magical happened that's that's just because continuity fucked you up right like watching goodfellas i watched it three times that summer and the third time i watched it i was

like oh shit this is a continuity nightmare but he just doesn't care. He's like... Cigars go in and out of Servino's mouth from behind. Like he'll have one in his mouth on his close-up and then it cuts to behind and it's gone. I was in the pilot for Vinyl,

the worst thing Scorsese's ever directed. Oh, yeah. It was pretty bad. Where were you again? I think that is... That might be... True.

A phenomenal career. I do think it might be the worst thing he's ever put his name on. That might be the worst thing he's ever put his name on, right? Yeah. But he was great. But it's still, you know, I watched it. It wasn't bad. And he just, he sort of openly said, he's like, you know, I'm so jealous of these people

who can keep track of that kind of stuff. Yeah, I try. I just don't know how to do it. You're just paying someone to do it. Yeah. I don't know how to do it. You know, I mean, it stresses me out too much. I just let people do whatever they want and I pick the takes I want.

Right. But he would like talk about that where he'd be like. He said he doesn't really care though. And then he'll throw in, you know, he doesn't, continuity errors. He's like, it's fun for the audience. He said that even about spatial geography though. He was like standing in a corner and he was like pointing his fingers at different things. Or it's like Spielberg is notoriously the guy who walks onto a set and he's like, of course, the camera's over here.

And Cannavale was like, what are you doing? And he's like, I can't figure it out. And he was like, you can't figure it out? And he's like, no, I'm no good at it. When I was younger, I tried to do it. Now I just put the camera wherever I want it. And I just, I don't know. I don't know.

That thing never makes sense to me. It's kind of incredible here. Martin Scorsese go like, I don't understand the 180 rule. Yeah. I was trying to figure it out on my movie and i you know i'm so happy that megan rutledge who's my script supervisor and um my dp ben kasulky and and uh my first ad kazzy layman they all like sort of helped me every scene and they were trying to say like well normally you would do it this way do it this way but every once in a while i'd be like

i just see i see it being over here and they would go well that breaks the line and i would go i don't know i just see it and and there's stuff in the movie i'm not saying like i'm a visionary they don't know what they're talking about sure but i they did say to me like well if you see it like who gives a shit let's do it and and there are scenes in the movie that technically break the line i think and and um but they're they're really vital to the movie. And I'm glad we did it. It's also like,

if you're making a comedy, the angle that will make it funniest should Trump. Sometimes I don't even do it that way though. It's just like, they're, they're just like interesting angles that I'm like, I, I feel like we should get it from over here.

I don't know why. And I think I was wrong a couple of times because there is one shot of Zach, uh, in Will Ferrell's office that was like, like i just need the i need this to feel like a bigger space can't we back up and we only use it for literally like a second and a half you know because i don't think it fits with the rest of the coverage you know so i'm probably wrong and i wasted time doing it but um anyway um all right so the box office game i'm gonna uh look at the top five for 19 november 7th 1986 i try to guess the box office game, I'm going to look at the top five for November 7th, 1986. I try to guess the box office, Scott, because I'm a weird person with a broken brain.

This movie opened at number seven, $1.8 million. Kind of unlucky, number seven. Sure. It grossed like $8 million. It was not a big hit. Yeah, that's pretty nice. And it got some Golden Globe nominations and nothing else. It didn't get the Oscar.

Right. It got all three of them. It got the only Demi movie of the 80s. All three of them. It got actor, actress supporting at the Golden Globes. Ray Liotta feels like he should have been a slam dunk.

Oh, yeah. I think when I watched it I was expecting because the LA Times talked about him so much. That's how I knew about any movie or album was the LA Times.

They talked about how he's like suddenly makes this big splash. I was expecting him to win the Oscar that year. But it is that crazy thing. As you said, this is the only Demi movie between 1980 and 1993

to not at least get an acting nomination. 97. Keep going, yeah. Beloved's the next one. That doesn't get a nomination. Right, that doesn't. No, I'm saying everything between Philadelphia and Melvin and Howard, including those two.

The supporting actors that year were Michael Caine for Hannah and Her Sisters, who won. The two platoon guys, Berenger and Defoe. Yeah. Dennis Hopper for Hoosiers, which is sort of like a double nom with Blue Velvet. Makeup for Blue Velvet. Well, it's the same year. Right, right.

That's the thing I always forget. And then Denholm, Elliot, and Rumor of You, which is sort of the weird one, but I think that's like, oh, well, you know. He's Brody. Great old guy. We love him. Right. All right.

So number one of the box office, seven weeks in, it's the most successful film of the year, Bar Top Gun. So it's the second highest grossing film of the year. Remember a couple episodes back when you told me that Top Gun didn't do well in theaters? I was, I was, you don't have to go back to that.

No, but I want to drag you a little bit here. David argued that Top Gun didn't do well in theaters and only connected on VHS. I was flopping it with another thing. Risky business. Risky business. Risky business. Pretty risky movie.

Classic David Smith. When I was 16, I remember my health teacher, I had a student TA period. So I was like back in the teacher's lounge for a period. And I remember my health teacher wanting to know what kind of movies I liked. And he's like, have you seen Top Gun? I'm like, I'm not going to see Top Gun. He was like, what do you like? I'm like, I'm not going to see Top Gun. He was like, what do you like?

I was like, I like something wild, you know? And there were certain movies back then that I intentionally did not see that I still have not seen to this day. Top Gun is one,

Pretty Woman, like all these films that I was like, were the biggest mainstream, like everyone talks about how much they love it. The Avengers of their day. Sure.

I guess so, yeah. Pretty Women and Top Gun. I do want to see Top Gun eventually, especially before the sequel. It looks pretty fucking rad. Should I see Godfather? Yeah, check it out. Yeah. I guess so. Yeah. Pretty women and I do want to see Top Gun eventually especially before the sequel. It looks pretty fucking rad. Should I see

Godfather? Yeah. Check it out. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Yeah.

Good. Well, what was the second most successful film of 1986? Well, that's what I'm

trying to think. It's a comedy of the year. I mean, it's number one. I believe it's been number one for like seven weeks.

It's a pretty cool movie. I guess so. Ben likes it. It's not Beverly Hills Cop. No, that's the next year. That's a pretty cool movie. I guess so. Ben likes it. It's not Beverly Hills Cop? No, that's the next year, I believe. That's 87?

No. No, Beverly Hills Cop was... Yeah, isn't it? Wait, Beverly Hills Cop is like 84. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 84. That's Murphy right after he left SNL, right?

Beverly Hills Cop is the first post-SNL thing. Yeah. Yeah. Or, yeah. But that's not the answer. That's not the movie we're talking about. It's 1986. It's a comedy.

It's the second highest grossing film of the year. It gets an Oscar nomination. It's a total out of nowhere hit. It's, if I say the thing that it is, you're going to guess it right. It gets one nomination? Probably. It's a real strong character type. It's a really strong character.

Like an archetype. Is it Crocodile Dundee? There you go. And it gets nominated for best screenplay. Right. Did you see Crocodile Dundee, the other sort of giant hit of the year? As a student of comedy. I think I did.

I know I had it on tape. I feel like I caught up with it on cable and taped it on cable. It's a real quotable movie. Give us one. That's not a knife. Okay. This is a knife. You got another one?

I like how you started your impression on the second knife. That's not a knife this is a noise uh that is such a weird fucking phenomenon it is it's crazy i also love how like australians were like yeah he's like not a big deal here well i remember watching the paul hogan show on channel kcop in la because there were, it was very weird. There were a couple of shows that were like export or imports rather from other countries that would show like titties or something on local television. No one was really checking in. So I remember whenever my parents would leave my brother and I alone in the house. I remember we would turn on, and this is like in the early 80s or whatever.

So the Paul Hogan show was one of those, right? I just assumed he was like. King shit in Australia. He was like Benny Hill or whatever. That was the thing. Everyone was like, oh, he must be their chief export. This is, they're giving us their finest. And they were like, no, he's like.

He's one of the guys. You see him on TV, sure. He's like the waynes brothers for us all right all right number two it's uh it's an oscar winner it's a major director who we talked about on this episode uh i feel like at this when this is coming out it's kind of slumming it for everybody but this movie is great now you watch this movie i feel like you have a great time it's not scorsese it is scorsese it is scorsese. It is Scorsese? It is. So it's after After Hours? It's after After Hours.

It's the one right after. It's a little bit him, I think, being like, I need to make a hit. It's a sequel. Oh, Color of Money.

It's in the way that you use it. I like that movie. I'll tell you what he said to me about that movie. What? I didn't realize you could make money

making pictures. Sure, that's the first one. Yeah, he was like, someone came up to me and said, Marty, you can get paid for doing this.

The third one is, number three is a comedy that I feel like is just now seen as sort of like an ultimate example of Hollywood offensiveness. Oh, it's not Soul Man?

It is Soul Man. It is Soul Man. I mean, like, I don't know what anyone else would say about that movie. It's the one that people can't believe actually exists. Right.

In the 80s. Yeah. I mean, they were doing it to, yeah, I don't know. Right. There's a little bit of like, well, no, we're commenting. There's a little self-awareness about it. Number four is much like The Color of Money, a major director being like, I just got to make something crowd-pleasing. Is it Coppola?

It is. Is it Peggy Sue Got Married? Yeah. It's Peggy Sue Got Married, which has a young Nick Cage. From Amos and Andrew. And Jim Carrey. Jim Carrey. Oh, right.

Nick Cage is so fucking good in that movie. He is. He's incredible in that movie. Number five. This is the one I did not know. It's like a drama, like an adventure movie made in China, like made in China, filmed in China, starring white guys,

you know, like, uh, some kind of period adventure movie. I've never heard of this one. It's based on a book. I, I've never heard of it.

Uh, it's a Diller rent is production. It was like incredibly controversial at the time. It, I think it's fairly racist. I think the Chinese government completely objected to it. It was like incredibly controversial at the time. I think it's fairly racist. I think the Chinese government completely objected to it. Match most of the clues he just gave. Fair enough.

Brian Brown is the star. Jesus Christ. I think I know what movie you're talking about. I'm trying to remember the name of it. Scott, do you know this movie? No. Tell me the title. I think I know what movie you're talking about. Now I'm trying to remember the name of it. Scott, do you know this movie? Oh, no. I don't.

Wow. Jeez. Tell me the title. Taipan. Was not going to guess. I was thinking of a different movie. I was just looking. I was just like, there's no way these guys know what this is.

Absolutely not. But it was popular that year? No, it was a bomb. This is its first week. It didn't do too well. This is what came out the week. Well, I mean, it's number five. Everything else.

So it made more money than Something Wild. It did. I've never heard of it. And Jumpin' Jack Flash is number six. Hey. Whoopee. Whoopee. Yeah.

But thank you for coming in and talking about this movie. Yeah, thanks. I really love this movie. I've loved it now for almost 25 or 35 years. Yeah. Yes, 35. The 35th year anniversary will be in a couple years. Crazy.

Yeah, so I enjoyed watching it again, enjoyed examining what makes it work, and thank you for having me on. I'd be happy to come back any time. What a pleasure. What a privilege. We've talked a lot about how much unconsciously we started out ripping off everything from you. Oh, good. Because you were kind of like the urtext in terms of funny podcasting,

I think, for both David and I. And almost everything that's good about the show is some distillation of something we ripped off from you. And almost everything bad about the show. Well, I ripped it off from Letterman as well. Well, sure, sure. Yeah.

At the end of the day, we're all just ripping off Jack Parr, right? Yeah, we're all just ripping off Jack Parr, right? Yeah, we're all just ripping off Adam or Steve. And watch the Between Two Ferns movie on Netflix. Yeah, if you want to see a movie

where obviously I don't know what I'm doing, right? Go ahead and watch it. And Comedy Bang Bang and I don't know, anything else you'd want to plug? that's it.

You're touring right now but I guess it'll be over that'll be over with yeah although I may I may do some next year but I'm not sure and Freedom

I love Freedom Freedom should yeah that's the best it's out on Thursdays probably now while you're listening to it for free right

there is a scene in between two films the movie that I find so funny that I find the scene itself funny but the thing I find funniest is knowing how much time and energy and money

you must have put into it. Which one? It's the end effect of the McConaughey. Oh yeah. A lot of time and money. Right. I think what's actually happening on screen is funny but thinking about the logistics of planning that uh you know we we built a fake

set that we shot most of the public access stuff in that is the fake fake set we built a second hallway yes for that stuff it's it's incredible on a on a on an angle that's nuts yeah it's not so it's uh yeah so we rebuilt that set on an angle so that the tidal wave could look better and they could flow down that hallway. It's not. Easier, yeah. When he floats by the window. Yes. That's another part that I have a video.

I want to put it out with Ryan Gall who plays Cam in it. I've talked about it on his episode of Comedy Bang Bang where we talked about the, about how he could not stay underwater longer than five seconds. So there's a shot of him floating dead underwater, and we have used as much of it as we can. But I have a video of the everything, where he gets pulled down by the divers, and then opens his mouth, and then immediately swims up to the surface. That's incredible.

But yeah, a lot. I mean, it's pretty crazy what I was allowed to do on this movie. That's incredible. But yeah, a lot, I mean, it's pretty crazy what I was allowed to do on this movie and where all the money went. I cannot believe they allowed him

to do this. It's a blank check. A little bit. Sort of, it was. Yeah, I'm not receiving another one. Oh,

come on. Well, thank you all for listening. Please remember, rate, review, subscribe. Thanks to Andrew for our social media, Joe Bone and Pat Rounds for our artwork,

Lee Montgomery for our theme song. Go to TeePublic for some real nerdy shirts. Next week we have, remind me of the chronology here. Star Wars Episode IX. Oh, boy. Yeah. I mean, Christmas. Next week's Christmas.

Next week's Christmas and a merry one to all of you. Skywalker will rise. So, boy. Yeah. I mean, Christmas. Next week's Christmas. Next week's Christmas, and a merry one to all of you. Skywalker will rise. So, nice. Get ready for that. Yeah, and then get ready for 2020 as we continue to talk about Jonathan Demme for several more months. Yeah, Married to the Mobs, Sons of the Lambs, good movies coming up. Movies, good episodes in the bank. Yep.

So, stay tuned for that. And as always... You guys don't have a sign-off? He makes up one every time. I'm trying to think it's the opposite of what you do, except you crowdsource it, which makes it easier. And as always, what's up, Hot Dog? That's right.

That's good. I was trying to find the longer version when he starts talking about that rebellious act of financial maneuver. Yeah. What is it? Come on. Rather be a live dog than a dead podcast. I don't know. That was the other one I was thinking of.

Right. Yeah. I don't even know the first one that you said. It's when he's in the car and she's been pegging him as a rebel and he owns up to it. She was pegging him? She's pegging him. It's after that long 45 minute pegging scene.

And he goes, I'm forgetting the term he uses, but he's like, everyone told me not to sell this thing and I went out and I sold it. Oh yeah, right. It's some stalker. I went out and I sold it. Oh, yeah. Right. It's some stock or bond. I was trying to find that longer. Unis. I think that's such...

Unis. Unis. Unis. Bonds. Right. And he says it so casually like she knows what he's talking about.