Blank Check with Griffin & David - Speed Racer with Emily Yoshida and J.D. Amato

Episode Date: May 16, 2016

Guests Emily Yoshida (The Verge) and J.D. Amato (The Chris Gethard Show) make their return to Blank Check to examine 2008’s Speed Racer. But why does everyone on the panel love this movie and disagree with the criticism it received? How was this film ahead of its time? Should racing involve the financial world? Together, they discuss Spritle and Chim-Chim antics, watching sunday morning cartoons, irony, the amazing special effects and so much more!

Your son seems to be interested in only one thing. All he talks about, all he seems capable of thinking about, is podcasting! Hi. Hi. Good job. Was that the one? No. Okay. Fascinating.

Didn't blow up my spot. Emily was taking bets on which line I was going to destroy for the introduction of the show. My name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. For the introduction of the show. My name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David, and this is a mini-series we are doing called The Pachowski Casters.

Good. Yeah. You still trip over it. I trip over it, too. I trip over it, too. Pachowski Casters. Pachowski Casters. Why not just the Podcaskies?

This was serious, heavy debate. It's actually a heavy subject. Yeah. There was a lot of debate over. It's actually a heavy subject. There was a lot of debate over whether we could be just the Podchowskis, which is now how the Wachowskis brand themselves. Right. But the casting has always been in our miniseries titles. People got to know that we're casting.

We're not just potters, we're casters, you know? And this was brought up to us by my friend Alex Chris, who you've met, in fact. And so we are the Pachowski casters. This is a podcast where we talk about filmmakers. We go over filmographies. We do miniseries devoted to directors and go through their career. And what we're fascinated in is when someone has a massive success early on and gets these sort of blank check opportunities to do crazy stuff.

This is definitely, we've hit the ultimate blank check in their career, I would say. Yes, you would say. We're talking about the Wachowskis. We're talking about the Wachowskis. This is their big blank check, and then yet the next one maybe even more so. So I don't know. And then the next one maybe even more so. Yeah.

But you'd think this is it. You'd think this is the apex. They make Bound, solid, solid debut. Sure. They make The Matrix. The, solid debut. Sure. They make The Matrix. The entire world changes. Sure. Then they have total carte blanche to make two Matrix sequels that people don't like at the time.

And then they don't make a film for... Five years. Yeah. Yeah. And they return with this. Although they do, like, make V for Vendetta. Yeah. That's very much...

I think of that as being a Wachowski's film. Yeah. Even though they didn't direct. Like, I mean, it's just got them all over it. They kind of shadow direct it. Yeah. Yeah. We's very much, I think of that as being a Wachowski's film, even though they didn't direct. Like, I mean, it's just got them all over it. They kind of shadow direct it. Yeah. We have two guests. I should introduce them quickly because one of our guests is only here for a limited period

of time. Yes. Both of our guests, like- Friends of the show. Friends of the show, past guests, returning guests, both, you know, deep thinkers on this film, Speed Racer. Both months out tapped this- Yeah. We're like, hey, if you're talking about this,

they did a little tapping. Had combos with us when we were still in, like, George Lucas land. Yeah. Yeah, they were, like, because we were, like, floating out the idea. From The Verge. You may know her better from The Podcast Awakens. Yes. Or The Podcast Reawakens.

That's my most famous podcast I've ever been on. Yes. That's your top credit. Emily Yoshida. Emily Yoshida. Hello. Thank you for having me back. We're very excited

to have you back. Is here and there's four people from the Chris Gathard show. Yeah. Director show runner. You may also know him from Attack of the Podcast

episode six or seven six or something digital filmmaking. Yeah. J.D. Episode six or seven. Six or something. Digital filmmaking. Yeah. J.D. Amato is here. Hey, guys.

I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for being here, J.D. A fan favorite episode, that one. A couple people have told me. Oh, that's great. That's because I still own that movie on my iPhone. Because of our podcast? Yeah, because of your podcast.

You'll own it forever. Because that was the only way to get a copy of it. Yeah. I had to buy it, and now I have it. Did you own it forever. Because that was the only way to get a copy of it. Yeah. I had to buy it and now I have it. Did you watch it on your phone or did you Apple TV it? No, I watched it on my, but then now it's just beamed over to my phone. So every now and then I'm like, oh, I'm going to watch a few seconds of it. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to watch

the Japanese serving spoon scene of the clone people. Oh my god. Oh, you mean with their chairs or Japanese serving spoons? Yes, right, of course. Yeah, but we're not here to talk about Japanese serving spoons. No, we're here to talk about Speed

motherfucking Racer. The fifth film? Yeah, the fifth Wachowski's film. Directed and written. Correct? Yeah. They're direct follow-up written. Correct. And produced. They sort of oversaw V for Vendetta and then they also, I believe,

when Oliver Hirschberg, or whatever his name was, was fired off of The Invasion. Oh, did they do some shadow directing on The Invasion? I believe they did a lot of shadow directing on that. Oh yeah, no, that's true. I didn't know that. That's why some rando tweeted at me about The Invasion. Yeah, we're not gonna fucking cover that. This was all some rando tweeted at me about the invasion. Yeah, we're not going to fucking cover that.

This was all four Wachowski hands on deck in the thick of it, making a Wachowski film. Yeah, this is the shooting of vision. Yes, right, right. They're finally like, yeah, they're blank checking it. And this was, I think this is the first, you mentioned that they had several blank checks in a row, theoretically. Yeah. This was the first one that quote unquote bounced, I would say, first this you mentioned that they had several blank checks in a row theoretically yeah this was

the first one that quote-unquote bounced i would say where they were like this is where film is going to be this is what's going to happen here it is and the world was like we're not ready for this but it made back a quite a bit of its budget not all of it but it was a huge budget so yeah yeah big budget and and there were big it did basically make it back worldwide, which is not great, but you know, yeah. But I mean, I think JD is right that no one was quite ready, right? Well, you just have to put this in context for a little. Going into this movie, they made four films. Three of those movies were The Matrix, right?

Yeah, but two of them were Matrix movies that nobody liked. It's true. Agreed, but you still look at the bigger picture and it's like, okay, so three out of four times at bat, these folks had a huge cultural impact. And this was before I think people got sequel-itis where it was just like if you made three bad movies, you could be like, oh, these aren't good. Where the idea of sequels being these amazing things in their own right wasn't as normal as it is now. Yes. Whereas now you're like, no, the third, right, wasn't as normal as it is now. Yes. Whereas now you're like, no, the third, fourth, fifth movie in a series should be amazing.

In fact, then you're like, ah, it's sequels, you know. Right, sequels are crappy. They're going to get worse, yeah. In a way, I feel like this is the first film, though, to actually pick up fans who may be dropped off for Reloaded. Because they were, you know, it's like, okay, I liked what they did with Matrix. I was into that. Wasn't so into the second or third movies, but here they're going to do a whole different thing.

Right, yeah, but that was all more Matrix. So, yeah, I want to see them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And their MO for almost every Matrix film was we're going to do something in cinema that has not been done before and you guys are going to rip this off rest of cinema for the next 10-15 years but we're going to do it first. We're going to invent this stuff. And so when Speed Race was

coming out I remember thinking what's the new thing? What are they going to do? What are they doing? I'm going to go on mic again as a throwback because I forgot to eat breakfast. The other aspect to think about here is like... Are you eating dry Cheerios?

Yeah. Emily was talking about how this film had like a crazy torture development cycle because, you know, Speed Racer was big in the 70s and then it started re-airing in the 90s

and it became this sort of Gen X thing that was like hitting two generations at once because 70s kids who had grown up with it were now watching it again and there suddenly was like a lot of merchandising and everything.

And then also a new generation of kids were watching it. And Warner Brothers was like, oh, we should buy the rights to this thing, try to make a movie out of it. I want to bring up one indication. I texted this to David this morning. There was a 1996 Volkswagen GTI commercial. It's weird. It's so good. That's a live action speed race? No, it's a speed race. It's a little short. It's weird. It's so good. That's a live action

speed race? No, it's a speed race. It's a little short. It's a speed racer short. Oh, I remember this. And it's like the Mach 5 gets hijacked or something

and then so he drives a GTI instead. And I remember that commercial to me now looks like okay, Volkswagens were cool and like hipster as shit and also Speed Racer

was just hot in 96. Did you guys grow up watching Speed Racer at all? It was in the air, yes. Yeah, casually. I wasn't a huge fan, but I definitely watched it. I loved Speed Racer growing up. I did not watch Speed Racer. Where were you guys watching it on? It was like a Saturday morning.

I don't remember. It kind of just passed me by. I mean, I knew of it, but I remember even at the time in like the 2000s when it was always like oh speed racer movie like and i was like who's who's into a speed racer movie like why are they putting so much effort into making this thing at the time warner brothers bought the rights it was definitely like 92 i think is when they re re they did they reboot of the series and then i think that they started showing that one. Because the original 60s or 70s series, they had that,

and then there was another 90s reboot. Right. And I think both were playing sort of simultaneously. I feel like they had a 90s reboot, and then someone else started airing the originals. Well, that's also when cable became sort of more ubiquitous. Right, and I just got the Cartoon Network. Right, right.

And so there was a lot of kids' channels that needed programming, so that's why a lot of 70s shows got re-licensed because they were cheap. And it was like, well, we need to fill time for the first time. And real, like, C-level kid shows from, like, the 70s. Like, Richie Rich. Like, I remember watching that for some reason. I would watch, like, Johnny Quest and all these, like, Centurions, all these, like, totally random, right,

like this, like, garbage that they kind of collected. Actual Space Ghost, not the these like centurions, all these like totally random, right, like this like garbage that they kind of collected. Actual Space Ghost, not the like comedy version. Actual Space Ghost and actual Birdman and all like the old stuff like that. I do think that's a weird thing where, I mean, even with Netflix and like a greater sort of accessibility to all these old cartoons, I do feel like, and maybe I'm wrong about this,

but I feel like kids today don't have the same sense of older cartoons. Like my sister's like nine years younger than me, right? And when the Yogi Bear movie came out, she was like, what the fuck is Yogi Bear? And I was like, he's like a bear and he steals picnic baskets. And she's like, that's the entire premise of the show? And I was like, you know, when we were like, you know, children, and like the i was like you know when we were like you know children and like the flintstones movie came out we were fully versed in flintstones we were watching

the flintstones all the time and that show was 40 years old at that point well you get so much more stuff by osmosis instead of like specifically seeking it out on demand yes it's like i don't want to watch speed racer it was on it was on And I feel like this, you know, I mean, all the nostalgia things that are being made right now are like mid-90s at the earliest. Yeah. Because before that, if it's like a children's type property, it doesn't really have any value. Other than Alvin and the Chipmunks, because apparently helium voices will always be funny.

Is the entire Chipmunks legacy, like not the films films, but what people know of the original cartoon, is it just the Christmas Time Is Here song? I feel like that's the only thing that still... Chipmunk Punk is their best album, I would say. Cool. I still have Memorize in my head. Do you remember they have the commercials for the albums? Yeah.

And I don't know their full songs, but I remember there was a moment where it's like, another song, such as, Uptown Girl. Do you, does she love me? And that switch from Uptown Girl to Do You Love Me? That's ingrained in your brain? It's stuck in my head. When we were kids, we would watch old animated shows,

and we would watch countless ads for compilation albums where the titles are all scrolling by, made of shows and we would watch countless ads for compilation albums where like cool rock where where the the titles are all scrolling by and then the one in yellow is the one that's playing i mean how many of those did i watch now that's what i call music blue and then that like blue screen with all the credit card information that to me was just like i was like oh this is a grown-up thing yes right like this is where you get your parents into the room. Google will tell me what this means one day. You freeze in the headlights of adulthood of like, I can't do anything if I touch

a phone or something could go wrong. I remember doing fake radio shows when I was a kid and doing ads like that and always stopping, making sure to specify no CODs, which I didn't even know what that was. Right, exactly. There's a weird phenomenon that you're getting at, though, JD, where it's like there are certain songs that I still think of as being combined with other songs.

Like there was like a pure love songs compilation that the ad used to always play. And they'd go like, why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near? Loving you. And like for me, that's one song. That's continuous, you know? Much like for me, now the Speed Racer theme is forever a dual Spanish-English hip-hop, techno-fueled romp. And no longer can the original theme song ever play in my head without hearing them go, Go, Speed Racer, go!

And then they go into Spanish, which I won't do because I don't know the actual words, but just the syllables that they're saying. They also, don't they have like a lot of little samples from the English language on running throughout, which is like a very 90s techno thing. Yeah. Like I feel like original Speed Racer, the dub, would have been sampled in like, I don't know, what, an Uncle Jack or something like that. It reminds me of like when they first made Mortal Kombat movie and it was like the theme

song had the like, test your might, test your might. And this was like, go Speed Racer, go. Okay, so that's one of the really weird phenomenons to this movie that like Speed Racer, what it originally started airing in the 70s was one of the first Japanese cartoons to air in America. Yes. It was kind of badly dubbed sort of like a... It was jank as shit. So that was like the dual aspects to sort of

why it stuck in the craw culturally is one, it was like this new introduction to this sort of different type of storytelling style, this different animation style That was very different than what we were used to you know in Western animation Especially if you compare it's like Hanna-Barbera I mean it's very dense plotting the way the action sequences were designed the movements all that sort of stuff

And then these shitty translations on top of it. Yeah, so much like you know the shitty kung fu movie Translations became a thing for kids growing up. It was like why are the voices weird on speed racer why don't their mouths sync up why isn't there more than two frames of animation it would be like a fade from speed in the car to speed in the air and when pops would get mad he would just sort of like shift grumpy positions without like in between

it was kind of like early video games to us too we were growing up on these like pixelated video games but we should we'll get to this, but the pan is the ultimate tool of low-budget anime. Yes.

The pan is what makes you feel like you're watching something active. The pan is a constant throughout this movie, which I think is brilliant. I love it so much. Just to expound upon that.

I really love this movie. This is going to be a very academic episode because we all love this movie and are trying to break down why other people don't like it instead of because those people are dumb

what Emily's describing is instead of animating any of these things they would just draw what would be like imagine like a three foot wide painting of a scene

it's like a comics panel exactly it's like a long comics panel and then they would animate the camera move which you could automate across and then they'd maybe switch out one or two things in it, and that meant they could get 30 seconds of animation out of one drawing.

Yeah, like just the mouth would move, but it would feel cinematic. And I will say— It's kind of like a Garfield cartoon. Yes. Carry on. I believe that you can lay out all of Speed Racer the movie into one singular image. I bet you could do it. I bet you could do it. I think you could do it.

You mean like every frame? I think the end composition, like the digital comp that you're looking at, arguably, I mean they didn't do it this way, but you could combine them all to be like one camera that just moves from connected

video to connected video. Yeah, it's like a collage. So, yeah. It announces itself with that opening like 20-minute sequence or whatever. Like this is what this movie is going to be like where it's like he's racing, but here's his backstory, and here's what's going on with his family, and here's what's going on like in his childhood. We have to get in depth with that opening because it's brilliant i just want to say just to sort of set the stage quickly so they like in the 90s it sort of comes back it's re-airing kids are getting into it and i think it was sort of this like common touchstone for kids who had grown up with it were like

remember how weird speed racer was the plotting was strange the animation was so bizarre the voices were over the top it's being repurposed into like commercials and stuff warner brothers buys the rights and for 15 years is aggressively trying to make a movie and can never figure it out. Johnny Depp and Julian Temple

almost do it. Then Alfonso Cuaron and Michelle Gondry both, I think, almost made their big American debuts on it. There were ideas to make it a more serious,

gritty film. There were ideas to make it a Brady Bunch style parody. Then Vince Vaughn bought the rights in the early 2000s. Vince Vaughn bought the rights in the early 2000s. Vince Vaughn bought the rights? And he wanted to play Racer X,

and he was like, he wanted to make it very character-based. Wait, was it... But serious? Wait, like... Henry Rollins was offered the role. Henry Rollins was supposed to be Speed Racer at one point. No, no, it was supposed to be Racer X. Oh, Racer X?

I thought it was supposed to be Speed Racer. I think in the Julian Temple version, it was going to be Johnny Depp and Henry Rollins were going to be the two leads. Of course. And then, like, you know, post-Matrix, even though the movies weren't very well liked, they did make money for Warner Brothers, at least Reloaded did. Oh, sure, yeah. And they sort of had Caché do

whatever they wanted, because everyone's like, what's the next Wachowski thing going to be? And they team up with Joel Silver, and they were like, we grew up on Speed Racer, we loved it, we'd like to make something that had broader appeal, you know, that isn't R-rated. Right. So if they go to Warner Brothers, they go, we want to make something that's more accessible than The Matrix.

Warner Brothers is going to be like, yeah, you want to make something that's more successful than The Matrix? Do that. And they sort of left it to their own devices. And they made the weirdest creative choice they could have made, which was directly adapting the American translation of Speed Racer. It is not an adaptation of the Japanese version at all. It is not Macho Go-Go-Go, the movie.

Right. That's something I don't understand. Someone should probably just explain that to me. What's the difference? I mean, apart from the language, obviously. No, I mean just the names and stuff. And Macho Go-Go-Go is the Japanese word for five, obviously. Well, no, I mean, just like the names and stuff. And like, Mak, Go,

Go, Go, Go is the Japanese word for five. So it's Mak five, but it is a pun because it's like, Go, Go, Go.

Okay. And his name is Go Mifune. Which means just like, just like we love Shiro Mifune and we're going to name every single character after him. And I forget. Yeah, they all have different names. Like, I don't think it's Pops race.

That's right. I think you're right. I think I looked that up and it's not. I think the energy of the show very much, the weird specific energy that the American version has comes out of how, like, large and stilted and out of sync the vocal performances are, which I think the film very much replicates that energy.

You know, it's this weird tonal thing. It's very loud. JD has a limited amount of time, so I want to throw the soapbox over to you. Yeah, you got 10 minutes, JD. I want to set the stage for things a little bit. Why I'm here is because I think whenever

Speed Racer comes up to conversation, I say a pretty outrageous statement, and then I have to describe my experience of watching Speed Racer. I believe that Speed Racer comes up to conversation. I say a pretty outrageous statement, and then I have to describe my experience of watching Speed Racer. So I believe that Speed Racer is the most underrated, under-respected for its additions to cinema film in the past, I want to say, 20 years. I don't know.

That's a rant. I'm trying to think why I say 20 years because I would assume that 20 years ago there was some movie that was... 1996, baby. English Patient. Yeah. Something wasn't...

English Patient changed the game and Speed Racer changed it again. Maybe it's more than that. Maybe it's more than that. I get your overall... Speed Racer does pick up. My focus fades... It leaves off. Yeah, exactly.

My focus fades out 20 years before and I go, okay, there's probably something. Right. So Speed Racer to me is a unique film. Like, okay, there's probably something. So Speed Racer to me is a unique film. If you watch it today, I think you might watch it and not be as impressed or as overwhelmed as I think people were when it first came out. Right. Because I believe that Speed Racer set the tone of the hyper-pop overstimulation, like hyper-pop culture aesthetic that we now live in and that mainstream has adapted. And I think it's become softened,

but I think Speed Racer was like this explosion up top that then created all of these films, including films like Draft Day. Yeah, that's your big point is that Draft Day has the exact same editing style as Speed Racer.

Yeah, all those weird pans. And it's true. And the crazy, crazy, crazy triple, double screens. And Costner walks through frames and transitions but also that movie

is made for dads like that movie is made for an audience that doesn't want to be challenged and anime fans yeah well it's based off

of course the classic anime called Draft Go Go right exactly yeah your character name was not

originally Jake the Intern Go Go Football Go Go Intern Go Go Go Football. Go Go Intern. Go Go Coffee. Exactly. Intern Mifune.

Intern Mifune. But I think you can look at movies like Scott Pilgrim, which then people are like, oh, wow, this is such a new thing. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Scott Pilgrim, all these films were in the wake of Speed Racer. But Scott Pilgrim also didn't do that well. People didn't quite get that one either. Absolutely.

But I think people were like, look at this, doing new stuff. They're refining this tech. To me, it was like, no, no, no, no, no. Speed Racer got there first. JD pops up. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Finger wag. So let me describe my experience of watching Speed Racer.

I was a Speed Racer fan. Growing up, watching the cartoon series, got super excited. One of my dream things was, I'd love to make a speed racer movie and then when it was like what Chelsea's doing I was like alright they're gonna go for it I respect this let's see it all the advertising was all over the place this was a crazily heavily advertised movie

they also clearly had no idea how to sell the movie they didn't know how to sell it because there were trailers that were like for kids and it was like funny goofy family fun there's a monkey go speed racer like the music was really prominent and then there were trailers that were like four kids and it was like funny goofy family fun there's a monkey go speed racer like the music was really exactly yeah and then there were trailers that were like super intense this is dark drama and it was like all over the house speed underneath it exactly but it was like dark drama with still the same imagery which made you watch the trailer and go what the fuck is this

movie well and like it would focus a lot on the actions a lot of cars like flipping over each other like racer x dialogue like no he's gonna be the best like the's a lot of cars flipping over each other. And they'd use racer X dialogue like, no, he's gonna be the best. Yeah, sure, sure. The lines that, out of context, put into that sort of trailer made it look like, does this movie think

that it's the Matrix? Or does it think that it's like Rocky or something? Or a superhero movie. Yeah. Another superhero movie. So then I go to see it.

I go to see it at Lincoln Center, which has the IMAX screens. The for real IMAX. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The for real IMAX. 2D. Big point. 2D. This is before 3D

was a ubiquitous thing. That's my favorite way to see a movie, by the way. IMAX 2D. It's so hard to do these things. Rarely play them in 2D. It's very annoying. And real IMAX, too. Of course, not LIMAX. So I'm in there in an audience. The theater is packed.

I'm sitting right in the middle with a bunch of other film school people. We're all watching this film unfold. And as it goes, something starts happening that I have only seen at that time in a movie and I have not seen since. As visuals unfold, the audience begins cheering and clapping and screaming as things happen.

Not because of their story or plot elements, but because of the visual exposure is crazy. And then there is a moment at the end of the film. So the film goes, like people are wrapped up in it. And the entire time everyone's looking around like, this is crazy. What are we watching?

I've heard JD tell the story like five times and I still get chills every time he tells it. And it's growing and the whole audience feels like, what are we watching? Like, what is this thing? Because it doesn't stop. There's no edit. There's no breath.

And when there is a breath, it's like you've been tricked into taking a breath and suddenly you're like oh wait it's slow now but it's not and then something happens and then the climax of the film happens the final race which is very emotional it's amazing and it's the editing and all the stuff and it's all

this imagery and they've built this foundation of like things coming in and you being used to the fact that like someone's going to be talking and a scene's going to be happening while action's happening it's like all these layers on top of each other and in the final moment um

Speed's car jumps over the the finish line and the finish line wraps around the screen and forms it's like a checkerboard kaleidoscope

and it turns into like a tunnel yeah and it's in super HD so you can see every checker and everything and it's spinning the car's spinning one way and the checkerboard's spinning another way. And I've never seen this happen in a theater before.

Since, like, before then. And never again have I seen this happen. A 2D movie. This is not a 3D movie. The entire audience, in unison, screamed in terror and delight. And put their hands in front of their face to block their eyes from what was images and colors and lights and sounds that were so overwhelming. And so just like it was like seeing a new color that everyone screamed and it happened

and that everyone laughed and giggled and like clapped with each other of just like what just happened to our eyes and ears. It was amazing. We're also all crying because Speed Racer wins the race. Spoiler alert. It's the most cathartic. I think it's hacky to talk about climaxes this way, but it is

orgasm on top of orgasm, the end of this movie. It just keeps coming and coming and coming. To me, I saw that and I said the Wachowskis are the most talented, ahead of the curve. Their only fault is that they're ahead of where people are. Right.

They're always five years ahead or whatever. Exactly. And while there are, I think there's so many flaws you can talk about at Speed Racer and so many places where the film is not strong or where elements of the filmmaking process were not fully realized. Right. But as a whole, it is a film that is like, like, it's like Hodorovsky. It's like, it's like ahead of its time from another planet.

It's films from another planet. And this is one of them. And I think people thought that it was just like a, like gone in 60 seconds, some just like action movie with cars and stuff like this. Or that it was like Alvin and the Chipmunks. There's just some silly kids. And it's not sure. No, this was, this was the full force of force of wachowski's these people who were pushing filmmaking forward and they just

happened to take this property at a time when also it wasn't totally as hip and understood that like maybe it's its lowest point of relevance 15 years out of date at this point exactly from the revival like 15 years from the second wind. But even now, I think rebooting properties that aren't as popular is something people are like, oh, cool, that's fine.

Let's see what it is. And this was a point where that was not in vogue and people are like, why the fuck? Why are you doing Speed Racer? And the question is still why Speed Racer?

But what they did with it and the technology they put behind it and the imagery and all this stuff was so ahead of its time and I do think completely impacted

the superhero genre we see today of this like pop infused, super like sort of like the kind of living cartoon. Saturated image sort of mixed with reality. And like cinematic excess. Yeah, exactly.

And like having this like super cartoony, fun, crazy, all this stuff happening, mixing it with like super melodrama at the same time that really hadn't been done in that way. And then movies like Guardians,

all these things that come out now that probably have found the middle ground a little bit more than that. But I think Speed Racer set the stage and I think people need to respect that and go back and watch Speed Racer and see what it did and just turn off the part of your brain that thinks that you knew what it was and just watch it and let it wash over you. Well, I want to see an

IMAX 2D now. Yeah, yeah. Let's have a little round of applause. JD, well done. It is noon, so you might have to mic drop there. Yeah. I mean, you did it, I would say. I might be able to buy myself some more minutes,

but I'll have to step outside for a minute. These are a couple of things I'm going to say in response to what you just said. One, when you tell that story and you talk about the reaction, the thing it reminds me of is when you hear about people seeing the Lumiere Brothers film

of the train entering the station and they were like, I don't understand. Is a train about to hit me? Yes. And I do think the I mean, there were very few critics who stood up for this movie when it came out. And I don't remember who it was, but whoever was writing for Time Out New York at the time made this plea that it was like, you know, all these other critics are looking at and

thinking the story is melodramatic or that the physics of the movie don't make sense or this or that. And they were like, the Wachowskis are working on such a pure level, actually redefining what cinema is. This is getting back to the essence of like things moving like the early camera test where it's about watching a horse run, you know? Well, the end of that movie is also like 2001. I mean, it just becomes completely abstract color and emotion and like somebody just doing

something that nobody else has ever done before and everybody's just like freaking out like it keeps usually in that kind of thing it would be distracting if you keep cutting back to like Susan Sarandon and Christina Ricci clapping but you're like no it's me it's me narratively this film is super abstract because it's like every scene

is also about everything that's happening after and before that yeah yeah yeah yeah and there's also the other thing I was going to say, JD, is like, a lot of the idea of this series that we do, David... I need a cigarette right now.

It's very warm in here. I got worked up and I was running into the wall. Speakers are the greatest film ever made. Watching it this time... I can think of a few things that Speakers are the greatest film ever made. You know what? I mean, watching it this time. I can think of a few things

that make it not the greatest film ever made. Yes, absolutely. There are flaws. We can backfellows. We'll dig in. Flaws are also kind of what make it incredible. Well, that's kind of the Wachowski experience. It's like you do have to kind of buy in

no matter what. That's fucking filmmaking. That's cinema. The whole idea is that you create this thing, these series of images, these 24 images a second, screaming by your face, and in doing so, you can combine

enough of them with enough things going on that at the end, the audience watching it has this visceral reaction, this feeling they've never felt before. They can't really pin down. Their only reaction that they can think to have is just to scream and laugh and clap

and that's what that's what filmmaking should be is just like we're gonna throw these things together and see what it can make you feel and Speed Racer did that and I think people do not respect that

and do not realize that it did that because they wrote it off never watched it maybe they watched the first five minutes on fucking YouTube or something I had a listener

of this podcast who I respect a lot I won't call him out because I think he's gonna to rewatch the movie. But he was telling me that he tried to watch it knowing that we were going to do it and was like, I watched the first five minutes. I just couldn't handle it. And I was like, you need to understand that the first five minutes are so overwhelming.

The first 10 minutes of that film are so overwhelming because you've never seen a movie structured like this before where you're watching one race but also processing every moment of this kid's life yeah simultaneous with the race and i was like it's overwhelming but then it settles into itself and also the language they establish in that opening scene sets up the final race that is so cathartic and such a path and they can only get to if you like understand this sort of vernacular they've set up but oh the thing i was gonna say is i i think our sort of like our mission statement to this podcast is we're interested when someone has massive success and then they sort of lose it. Right.

They can't figure out how to get back into the thing. And someone like Shyamalan or Lucas. Yeah. They like never. Shyamalan's always scrambling to like get the get the lightning back in the bottle or whatever. Right. Especially.

And you and I like all the Wachowski films. Yeah. Like, and I think what we were interested, what interested us in covering them was that it was a different angle of not like, why did they lose it, but why did the public stop following them? Right, yeah.

Because The Matrix, everyone loved, and then they sort of lost the audience. And we think these films are brilliant, but they didn't really connect. And I think there are two factors. One of them, you know, two major factors in this disconnect with the Wachowskis since you know Matrix

the first Matrix really one is that they kept on looking six steps ahead of everyone else so there's a speed you can move at because you even look at something like Avatar where people are like this was a breakthrough this was never done before 3D had been back for like four or five years but hadn't really worked yet Zemeckis had been doing his shitty motion

captured movies like That's true. Zemeckis had been doing it. Like people had a sense of the poor version of what Cameron was trying to do and then he was like here's the good version. The Polar Express

is the most underrated under- I'm just kidding. Wouldn't that kill everything if that was like I was like I want to go to Bad Heart for the Polar Express.

Polar Express from Mars Needs Moms. Yeah. A film that lives in the uncanny valley. It's made a home there. I don't... I have to step out real quick.

I'll try to come back in like 15 minutes or so. Okay. I remember I tried to make the term polar expressive a thing for like weird uncanny valley expressionless monster people. Yeah. I think there's this two-pronged thing. One of them is that like, you know, the Wachowskis were looking four steps ahead when the audience is maybe only ready to see one step ahead. Right. Yeah. And I remember I saw this movie with my sister Romley. So she must have been she was like 10 at the time.

She was not a Speed Racer fan. She had no context for what was happening. The movie flopped really hard, was very quickly out of theaters domestically, at least. And we went to what was literally the last showing in New York City. The movie flopped really hard, was very quickly out of theaters, domestically at least. And we went to what was literally the last showing in New York City. It was like the Union Square Theater on like a Thursday at five o'clock. And it was the last theater playing it. And afterwards she said, what did you think? And I was like, I think I liked it. But I also think we don't necessarily have the frame of reference to judge this movie because it's so many steps ahead of what other movies are doing right now that we might live in a world 10 years from now where all movies look like this to a degree.

But I think the other element to why people have had a hard time connecting with their work, and this is where everything shifted with Speed Racer, is this movie is achingly sincere. Yeah. Absolutely. There's no irony whatsoever. It's 100% about how capitalism is bad and how artists should be sincere. Yeah. Absolutely. It's 100. There's no irony whatsoever. It's 100% about how capitalism is bad and how artists should be independent. And how family is good. Emily has a great read on this movie as a reaction to the

Wachowski's experience making The Matrix. Okay, so I have a similar read. But I want to go back to two things, okay? I just think we have to acknowledge the sincerity early on because it's a present, but we have to talk about everything else. But the thing about your sister going in without any context. You don't need context for it. It's fucking Speed Racer.

It's a dumb cartoon. I mean, it's silly. His literal last name is Racer. Yes. And his first name is Speed. His first name is Speed. His dad's name is Pops. When he was a baby, his parents named him Pops.

That's because he did come out a mini John Goodman with a mustache. Let's be honest. That name is so crazy, so insane. That's like if in the real world there was an actor who starred in car movies whose name was Vin Diesel. Could you imagine how insane that would be? So the one thing is like, and that's I think to the film's credit, it that like we do not need to treat Speed Racer as the sacred text we can take the themes that the Speed Racer was constantly dealing with which is like oh is he going to sign with the big capitalist bad guys or is he going to stay loyal to his family that is all that Speed Racer is about they just take that and make it

into a Wachowski's narrative of that which like makes a lot of sense so that's great uh they don't try to overly mythologize it the way that we're really used to now as superhero movies you just have to take it as it is yeah yeah the other the thing about the visuals and the thing about them being ahead of the time that i think is like weirdly tragic because i watched this um i watched this on my roku uh streamed from amazon uh and you know internet speeds vary and this does not stand up well to on-demand streaming. You would need to watch this on a Blu-ray or on an actual production of it.

You cannot have buffering going on with this. Or even just that thing where it kind of will pixelate. Because all of those backgrounds that are all completely digital and fabulous and detailed, but you will lose all that and it'll just look like a weird neon cloud yeah like clarity is sort of the big visual idea that

one of the big ideas they had in this movie and um you know they talked a lot about like even the scenes that are shot on sets where there's very little you know sort of obvious digital effects like the stuff in the house yeah the big house, yeah. The big idea they had was A, shooting all on digital cameras, which was still pretty fresh at that time, and B, making this like insane depth of field so that all the images were very flat. Yeah. And a lot of the other shots, they do composite shots. So they'd like film the background and focus, they film the actors and focus, and they composite

them together so it looked like a cartoon where it's just an image on top of an image. Right. Which is like another very, very literal translation of an anime aesthetic like a super flat like it's just that's the way that like they made that work on film in a way that nobody has ever done before or pulled off i would also argue we were talking about this earlier i don't think anybody else should ever attempt like yeah i don't trust anyone else no No, I don't. I think it works both to the film's detriment and to its success.

I mean, it looks unlike anything else, which is why I think it's special. Yeah, and I think, I mean, I honestly think that look, which was so bizarre

against the landscape of other movies, especially in this sort of space of big summer blockbusters, which are mostly very concerned with trying to seem cool. And The Matrix, you know, was sort of space of big summer blockbusters, which are mostly very concerned with trying to seem cool. And The Matrix, you know, was sort of misinterpreted as a very cool

movie. Because it is a cool movie, but it's not a posturing movie. No, but it did set cool aesthetics for the next few years. I just watched all three of those movies this weekend. And it... You guys, like, the sunglasses. I mean, it just reminds me of every single stoner guy I knew in my freshman and sophomore year of high school.

Right. Well, that's the thing. It did have a coolness posturing to it, I think. I think it's very specific to them. I think in hindsight, we can recognize it as being like a actually kind of geeky version of coolness. Exactly. That's the sort of point I was going gonna make is that like at the time it was looked at as this very cool movie but it's actually like a nerd's idea of what's cool

and by dumb luck it's like a larper's idea yeah right and by dumb luck that conception linked up at the moment culturally with some idea of what cool actually was right and it was like oh these guys are hip they're edgy snake skin right but then you look back and it's like no they're just very sincere nerds and somehow their thing hit a nerve you know yeah like this was just a pure expression of what they were interested in aesthetically emotionally psychologically philosophically and speed racers the same thing but the culture was like pass yeah you know and um you look at like when the trailers were happening the aesthetics made no fucking sense if you were imagining seeing that like in between trailers for like the incredible

hulk and and fucking you know like wanted or whatever you know i'm trying to think of 08 movies wasn't indiana jones yeah crystal skull was that iron man kung fu panda no iron man ruined this movie yes because this movie came out a week after Iron Man. It was completely crushed. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.

But I think like if you watch the film, there's sort of an immersion therapy thing where the movie teaches you how to watch it and sort of those visuals make sense to you. But if you're just seeing a trailer, you're like, is this movie supposed to look shitty? Like a lot of people were like, why are the effects so bad? So in that way, I would say that's the way that you would need to be primed. Like not in the mythology

of Speed Racer necessarily. Which is not really a thing anyway. But in the grammar of anime. Like I think that's what, you will get so much more satisfaction out of this film seeing those really subtle translations from animation to live action.

Even using the source material of a pretty crappily animated show just seeing how they interpret that in like a very very much higher budget production uh is really interesting and like even when the film is kind of lagging that is something to chew on i mean there was just such a especially post like star wars prequels and stuff there was was such an even mainstream rejection of green screen. I don't like it when things look like they're on a green screen. I don't like it when I can tell that there's a seam or anything like that. And Speed Racer was doubling down on that. It's a deliberately artificial movie in the same way that the MGM musicals embrace the fact that they were shot on sets.

Rather than trying to make it look like a real apartment, you did the end of, you know, An American in Paris, where it's like this, you know, super heightened artificial fantasy dream sequence. And this movie is like that. Like it's using digital technology. I mean, there's even something very simple in, you look at their complete disregard of like real world physics in the racing sequences.

The way the cars spin and the way they jump up. There's no effort to explain like how these things can happen. Right. And aside from the fact that like, okay, the technology is impossible. You can't have like a car on like spring stilts that can like spin over like that and land perfectly. Right. But even beyond that, the way they animate those movements that would be impossible, rather than trying to have them be dictated by any sort of well if this could then it

would go like this the cars move like kids playing on a fucking Hot Wheels track it's like you lift the car up on your hand and you spin it around six times because that'd be cool and then you drop it straight down or they'll like crash into each other you know but it's just like it's gonna spin an extra time because that's awesome

a lot of people die in this film yeah it's interesting because you do once in a while see to spend an extra time because that's awesome. Yeah. A lot of people die in this film. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because you do once in a while see that shot of somebody like being encased in like bubble wrap or whatever when they get out of their car. Like there's some sort of safety feature. But you only see it once or twice. A lot of times people just blow up. Yeah.

No. Anytime you see a car explode, we are meant to understand that that person died. Right. This is a blood sport. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And like the world of this, I mean the world makes, it seems to be only racing, right?

Like the world that this is in. Everyone loves racing. Racing is like America's favorite art form. Which is why, like why is this teacher so down on him then? Like, of course, isn't everybody really into racing? Like, it seems like that. Yeah. I, oh, should I share my theory about this film?

It's not a theory. It's just like theory it's just like it's like dumb armchair psychology but I might imagine we specialize in dumb armchair psychology should we go through

the plot a little bit just because the point you want to get to is set up in the first like 30 minutes right absolutely so the opening 10 minutes of this movie

are a fucking masterpiece they're amazing so fun it's basically speed on the racetrack the opening shot is speed in a in like a locker room.

Oh, yeah, and tapping his foot. From behind. He's getting ready for the race. Even before that, the fucking studio logo's on this film. Michael Giacchino did the score, which is amazing. And you just have these very poetic, quiet, subdued notes of the theme starting to creep in in a very subtle way. And the logos, the Silver Studios logo,

Village Roadshow, Warner Brothers, are done with this kaleidoscopic, I mean, sort of what JD was talking about at the end of the film, but priming you for the color palette of the film, the movement of the film, and then hard cut to Emile Hirsch in a real physical location, right?

Yeah. Like a set, tapping his leg, nervous before the race, you don't see his face, and then boom, the movie goes straight into like 70 things at once. His childhood, his adolescence, his family,

the race itself. His girlfriend. His girlfriend. You set up every character, you set up the entire history and this is all intercut with a race that we're seeing. A race we're seeing where we eventually understand that he is racing against the ghost of his older brother who died

in a fiery car accident and he's racing him like he's fucking doing a Mario Kart time trial where we see like... That's actually the second race. No, no, it's the first race. It's the first race. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The spectral ghost. Oh no, the second one is the one his brother died on. Yes, exactly.

The rally. But we see like this sort of spectral image Of his brother's car like doing the opposite Moves of his car and like the people Are like is he going to break a record and then at the end He doesn't so he like slides Into the image of his brother's car This movie also could have just been a Mario Kart Movie

Oh that would be great Make a Mario Kart movie Wachowski They already did it's like everything is Rainbow Road in this. It's amazing. Good call. It's also, this is how a lot of Speed Racer, this is how a lot of filmmakers would have ended their Speed Racer movie. Yeah, sure.

With him making this emotional decision to let his brother have his legacy or whatever. Yeah, and the stuff they're intercutting with the race would be like the first hour of the movie. They'd play all that stuff out chronologically in real time. I mean, you see Speed Racer as a little boy. You see his relationship with Rex. You see after Rex dies. You see him meeting Trixie, his girlfriend, that relationship developing.

You see all of this stuff. And like most films would be like, okay, that's act one, you know? And then act two is him getting ready for this race and act three is the race. Yeah. And this film just gives you all this in the first 10 minutes

and it gets at this idea. I think there are two big sort of ideas to this film. I mean, it's all this sort of battle. I mean, I think this is what you're getting at, but it's like this battle of commerce versus art. Right. And I think there's this, one of the central ideas they're getting at

is that any great art is the product of every single life experience you've had up until that point. You know, like it's not just about being talented. It's not just about being hardworking. If you're making great, true, genuine art, it's everything has taken you to this one moment. Right. And that's the thing they keep on getting at is like in the races, you're going back to everything that's happened in Speed Racer's life, relevant or irrelevant. You know, the big moments and the little moments. And he's all he's entirely a product of his entire experience. Well, the races are interesting the way that they're shown, especially the last one, because

while there is like some conflict with the other racers and there's some, you know, dirty tricks and stuff in one of them. It really, they are personal experiences. They are cathartic, like, modes of expression, more so than battles or conflicts. Like, that is happening on the surface, but the real thing that that scene is about is, like, what's he going through? Yeah, one thing I like about this movie

is that there is no rival on the track per se. This isn't a movie about Speed Racer versus Racer X or anyone else. Like there are lots of rivals who are like just kind of bad guys or whatever. But there's never any kind of dynamic playing out between like the drama is as you say is much more in his head and in like the film story at large than it is about like oh, he has to finish ahead of Bloddy Bloth, the guy with the mustache. So here's my read on this film. So it starts out with him doing this race and doing very, very well at it,

beating everybody. Sure. It's sort of his breakout star moment where people take notice. It's his breakout star moment. And yeah, and the big time comes the calling. Royalton. Yeah, Royalton. Oh comes the calling. Royalton.

Yeah, Royalton. Oh, so good, so good. Roger Allum. Roger Allum. He's also in V for Vendetta. The villain in V for Vendetta. And he's a great British theater actor. He, yeah, so he kind of gets introduced or whisked away into this world of like oh we could take really good

care of you like we live you know this is this is what the big time looks like you know very very like we see this kind of thing in all sorts of movies but done in the craziest way possible where like I mean not just there's a private jet with candy yeah the language of the film right

not just the language of the film where it's like no hard cuts and it's all these weird, like, I mean, the images change behind the characters' heads and we're moving forward in time. But also like as they're giving the tour, it's not just like, oh, here's a massage room. Here's a candy room. It's like, here's a ninja training facility. Yeah.

And the ninjas are being held up by robot arms. Like, it's like such an expansive imagination. And also tonally already this film is getting to this thing where like the candy thing, don't they play Hallelujah? I think so. Yeah. Because Spidle goes in and like sneaks into the plane and eats so much candy that he passes out.

And I have to say that is hilarious to me. That is so funny. I love when people eat too much of something and get sick and regret it. That's a really funny thing. They essentially tweak out on candy at one point and have a speed ramped chase through Royalton's office to Freeburg. We should say that the C plot of this film is that Speed's youngest brother, Spridle, and his chimpanzee friend, Chim Chim, want to eat candy.

It's like A-plot speed racer dealing with his legacy and his future. Like B-plot, like, you know, the capitalism and like the world of race. C-plot, candy. Does he get candy at the end? I feel like maybe they don't resolve it well enough. I mean, he gets candy in the middle when they sneak onto the plane. He gets plenty of candy then. I love a goal that is candy-oriented.

It's very real to me. Yeah, so basically— Or else he gives them this big spiel. Yes. Well, first he gives them the soft sell, which is like, oh, it's great. You know, you'll be served in this wonderful way. Here's a suit. Oh, you look great in it, Speed.

Don't you look great? The hard sell is, don't you know, this entire game is rigged and garbage. And the thing that you have projected all of your dreams are on romanticize. It's your favorite thing. It is dirty and corrupt. It's all business. Yeah. There's no actual, like, nobody is actually realizing their dreams through this mode of expression.

Because, right, exactly. Because Speed gives this speech about, like, I remember when I was a kid watching this famous race with my dad, and we were cheering this guy, and he pulled it off, and it was such a... And he's like, we rigged that race so that X chrome stock would go up and X engine stock would go down. You don't know what you're talking about. And as you're saying, right, this is a capitalist world. There is no pleasure to be found here. It's the equivalent of a kid going into a film school interview and being like,

I remember seeing Star Wars with my dad and my world changing. And them being like, Star Wars was made by a bunch of cokeheads. Yeah, right. It was a fucking tax shelter. They made sequels to that because, yeah, of profit margin. And yeah, that was an economic decision made by CEOs. Yeah. Like each of those characters was was Margaret Research.

Right. Yeah. And that's only more and more true. Yeah. Yeah. And basically it works up towards this big final race that I would argue is represents a chapter of the Wachowski's career that has not yet been realized, where they are able to overcome all of these outsider, these corrupt outsider influences, realize their dream, and everybody loves it. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think the ending of the film is really fascinating because it's sort of them calling their own shot

that didn't come true. Yeah. I think they hoped that people would react to Speed Racer in a way that would prove their ending yeah correct you know it feels like the whole middle part where it's like getting exposed to just how how corrupt that the business is feels like the experience of working on something like V for Vendetta or working on something where they didn't have total control but are like being like their talents have been recognized and they've been brought in to work on something and it's like oh like we got to make this this first thing that

was major success and was totally our vision and like that's what filmmaking is right and then it's not at all sorry guys yeah not except till you get your netflix show this is but this is that's why this is the ultimate blank check movie because it is them being like, we have a blank check, right? And they're being told like, no, there's like all this fine print on the other side of the blank check

that you forgot to read. This movie's about the very notion of blank checks. But then of course, they did make it. So, I mean, they are kind of, yeah. But their thesis sort of became like, everything has to be a blank check.

Like, we can't worry about that other stuff. I mean, I do think, you know, they were these outsiders. They were these Chicago boys. They wrote some spec scripts. They made deals quickly. They wrote a spec script

that they thought got messed up and screwed over by Hollywood assassins. You know, like they had had like the kind of bad Hollywood experience in the 90s. Even like when they went into the Matrix, they were very much outsiders. Joel Silver was their big sort of protector. He was their Pops racer, if you will will he was this big gruff guy who sort of fought

he really is a bit of a pop racer and we should i mean like you know you read these i read these stories at least about like you know the bound script when like when the bound script had the the sex scene in the first 30 minutes like apparently in block text it said like you're gonna ask us to cut this scene out and we will not be cutting this scene out no matter what you say and like the matrix was the same way where the script would say, everything needs to be exactly as we're describing it. You can't fuck with this.

Right. They're very prickly. We are artists and this is what we want to do. They also are notoriously very, very press shy. Right. I mean, they've done more interviews since both of them have come out than they did before.

And they were always sort of like a mystery. I never saw an interview with them. Except for like on like extras DVDs once, you know, there would be like one interview with them. Like where there were these like weird reclusive sort of guys who were just like, yeah, we like like animation and we like Kung Fu. And you're like, wow, these two are a bunch of. But I think Joel Silver was like they'rechested Greco-Roman wrestling protector. Who could read the Hollywood system for them and interface for them. Yeah, and they sort of were guarded from all that.

And bully a budget, basically, out of a bigger studio for them. I do think you're onto something, Emily, which is that the first race, which would be the victory victory the final act of most other films is them making the matrix yeah and just having this amazing success right right and it's like you've done it you've accomplished the thing and they're like no you have no idea so you've hit it once and you did it on your own terms that means we own you now yeah like we're not gonna let you make a mistake good or bad on your own terms again if you succeed it's because of us and if you fail it's because of us we want our claws fail, it's because of us. We want our claws in you. And the movie is them trying to figure out what to do.

I think the second act is the Matrix sequels, which is them being like really overloaded by everything. You know, all this ambition, teaming up with people, not being sure of exactly what to do. And the third act is what they hoped Speed Racer would do for their careers. I think that's another reason why the climax

is like, makes you want to cry. Because it's not, that movie was not that. And you're watching it at the same time that you're realizing that it's not that. Like, oh, God. This is great stuff, guys. We're really digging in. Yeah. I mean, there's no time for bits on this episode just because there's so much to break apart in this movie.

Go ahead. Oh, no, no. No, go ahead. Well, I would say if the movie, you know, where the movie sags the most is that second act. Yeah. Where it's throwing a lot of stuff at the audience. It's ostensibly a kid's movie. I believe this movie is rated PG.

Correct. Which when you make a movie that's rated PG, you better want kids to see it because that's how the Hollywood economy works. Like, you know, this is going to have to be a movie that appeals to it. movie that appeals to it. And, you know, the second act basically begins with a CEO explaining the stock market and like, you know, and how like those machinations influence the sports industry. And then you go all onto this sort of B-plot about Rain. There's this B-plot about Rain. Rain.

Shout out to Rain. Is that, is he a character at all? Is that based on a character from the anime at all? Yeah, I don't know. But then there's. Yeah, I think. Well, it's a very international cast, as was The Matrix. Yes, of course.

I have a few thoughts on Rain in this, but I do think at least it was a move in the right direction to have somebody actually Asian in the film. Yeah, he's like a Korean K-pop star, right? He acts as well. He was the star of Ninja Assassin. Yeah, he was the hottest of Ninja Assassin. Yeah, he was the hottest thing in like 2007.

Right. And to the point where like, you know, you would read a New York Times article about him maybe. Right. But like, not that

he would be mainstream or anything. Colbert would always have him on the show as like a joke. Colbert used to put Rain on the, well, I mean,

I think he used to reference him a lot and then eventually Rain started making appearances, but it was the idea of this guy who's like super famous

in another part of the world who we have no awareness yeah yeah um watching those sort of phenomenons from the outside is always fascinating so it was like the idea that like girls will scream and faint when he walks by if you're in america he's anonymous right right right so there's the rain thing but there's also there's there's the inspector guy inspector detective inspector he must be in the anime oh Oh, yeah. I have never seen it. And then there's Hiroyuki Sanada, who's a great actor, who had just been in The Twilight Samurai, as the CEO of a rival company who's doing some sort of economic battle with Royalton,

and you don't really get what the implications are of that. He's Rain's guy. What's Rain's character's name? Tejo. Oh, Taijo. Togo Khan. Yeah, the Togo Khans who have the Ferrari logo. Sonata's also weirdly

seventh build in this film. He's got maybe two scenes. He's another huge star. I know he's a huge star. The billing on this film is really weird. Shaft shows up for two scenes and Richard Roundtree shows up. Who's also fucking billed above Roger Allum. Roger Allum is disrespected in the credits for this movie. It would be my biggest criticism of the film. Agreed.

Roger Allum's billing. Agreed. Very low. Yeah. It's quite annoying, but whatever. He gives a great performance anyway. Good job, Roger. But Richard Roundtree plays one of the guys in the fixed race.

Yes. He plays Burns and at the end he one of the guys in the fixed race. Yes. He plays Burns. And at the end, he's a commentator on the final race. And it's like he's seeing, even though the movie only kind of implies that that's why he's so delighted by Speed, like sort of beating the system at the end of the movie. Yeah. But it's right, like that's sort of the implication. It's part like he's sort of, Speed has done what he couldn't do, which is like transcending

all this, you know, match match fixing and industry meddling. Yeah, there's a scene... Guys, I'm gesturing. This movie's incredible. There's a scene with Speed and Trixie. This movie's so fucking sincere. Very sincere. Christina Ricci plays

Trixie. We haven't mentioned her. And Ariel Winter of Modern Family plays a young Trixie in a couple scenes there. I think Christina Ricci is excellently great actually all the cast her look is great her look is great I mean actually I mean Emile Hirsch is great in this like he looks perfect he is such a good actor and it is such a bummer that he is apparently a jerk and like doesn't make movies a lady A lady strangler? Yeah, I mean. Look at this picture.

Look at how they lightened both their hair for the premiere. Yeah, I know. They both were blondies. This movie is premiered at Tribeca in, yeah, so Tribeca of 08. Yeah, Tribeca 08, yeah. I love the fact that... He looks just like him. I know, it's weird.

It's weird how much he looks like the cartoon. Especially with the eyebrows. Yeah, he's got a good brow, which I think is necessary for a role like this. Well, like 50% of his performance in this movie is being determined

behind the wheel of a car. Sort of gritting his teeth in there. Right. And looking over... And every once in a while I'll have a line where he actually has to say something instead of just looking

and that's when it kind of falls apart because he's just like oh no what must the script of this film look like what can only imagine I mean

the craziest thing is like everyone who made this movie was like so locked in you read about like Emile Hirsch and Susan Sarandon and John Goodman were all just like

let Sarandon sorry I do that all the time and Christina Ricci no I think it's just a mispronunciation I do that all the time. Is that the British pronunciation? And Christina Ricci, no, I think it's just a mispronunciation. I do it all the time. We're just like, let's make a sequel now.

They gave all these interviews, we're like, we want to make so many of these movies. So it must have been fun to make. And the Wachowskis had them plowed it out. I also, I've heard from anonymous sources who worked on the film

that John Goodman was struggling with alcoholism during the making of this film and was really fighting for his sobriety. He's so good in this movie. Me and Emily had a long conversation about him. He really should constantly be in the conversation with the best living actors. Talk about guys we undervalue.

Talk about an underrated guy. And everyone loves John Goodman, but we don't take him seriously enough. He's a character actor. He's always going to play that guy in some movie, but he will also define roles and make them, like, transcend his part in them.

He's a type onto himself, and absolutely, he's, yeah. He can literally do anything. He fits into any genre, any size of project, any size of role, and he never has a false moment. Yeah.

And one of the things that he does so well, I mean, and look, I mean, someone like Tan Cloverfield Lane uses this to fight the audience's expectations, is he is able to project this really, really innate sense of decency. Sure. And this movie is all about sort of integrity, you know, like moral certainty and decency about like knowing what you stand for and fighting for that and not at the expense of anyone else. I mean, this is what we're talking about.

This film has no irony. That's the thing about Goodman's performance. It's like this isn't some weird pastiche. And I think that's one of the things that makes, I mean, there were a lot of adaptations. Over a span of 20 years or something, there have been adaptations of cartoons of this level of depth. You know, like the scooby-doo movies

or something and those are all completely ironic productions because it's like why would we make this like like you know the 60s were weird and cheesy and corny and like whatever making jokes about the fact that shaggy is clearly a stoner yeah it seems like a lesbian like you're calling out all the adult readings of the cartoon yeah i mean and it's not that like it's not that the speed racer cartoon itself is like very very maudlin or anything it's just straightforward that's it like that's it's not jokey but so many other versions of this movie would have a character go like oh no speed racer he's gonna win the race and someone else going like uh why are you talking like that yeah like they'd make those jokes i mean i don't think

there's a better example than the fact that like this film like the cuts to the Spritele and the monkey and the chimpanzee like those that's not for

a cutaway gag. Like they have they have their own plot in the movie. Like they are being used as they are used in the cartoon which is for comic relief.

Right. But straight comic relief. And also arch comic relief. Like the idea of I mean it's sort of like what Bollywood does where it's like

why not put every genre in there just because we're taking the races seriously doesn't mean we can't have a kid and a monkey trying to be candy if you like both of these

things individually and we're charging you the same amount for a ticket then watch both of them you know like let's have cool races let's have like

serious family drama and let's just have like I mean this fucking scene where they're riding around in like a go-kart inside of a fucking like massive like company factory. And it's like in fast motion, like sped up playing air guitar while Freebird plays. They were like, why wouldn't we do this? Like you need something to break it up. You've just had like your dream shattered by Royalton. It's mid-speech. They're cutting in the middle of him getting the speech on, like,

we went up 72 points in the stock market, and then they cut back to, like, I think Chim Chim eating a fucking Hershey's Kiss. I guess that's when I was saying, like, the PG thing. I mean, like, it's kind of the argument, like, no, this is a family movie in that there's stuff for everybody. Yeah. Rather than like this is pitched at a 10 year old.

Like there is stuff for everyone in the film to enjoy. Maybe the kid zones out during the Roger Allen speech. But he's got he's got candy antics to worry about. Yeah. Ironically, in aiming to do that, most of America was like, who's this movie for? Like nobody. Absolutely. I mean, Americans are.

You know, something that I kind of this movie kind of reminds, nobody. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Americans are... You know, something that I kind of... This movie kind of reminds me of... And didactic, I think. Literal. Yeah. Yeah. Like, totally this movie... And not...

No, not totally. I don't know what the word... Just, like, spiritually, it reminds me of Snowpiercer a lot. Ooh, yeah. Ooh, yeah. And that there's just... There's so many things going on.

It's, like, pretty straightforward and earnest. There's a serious singularity of vision and like it is taking itself seriously. This is not like a weird arch thing at all. Yeah. And it's like this sort of not American, not Asian, not any one nationality production. The sensibility

reflects that. Like it's not, it does not feel like a American Hollywood action film. It like has the budget of one. It has the budget of one and it has the stars of one but it does not feel... Emile Hirsch, he's a young star. At that time we thought he was going to

really... I didn't mean to step on you. Only like eight years later it's pretty crazy to think there was a $150 million temple where the two leads were Emile Hirsch and Christina Ricci. But I mean Susan Sarandon and John Goodman were both like, yes, we are there. We want to do this and we're going to do this with utmost sincerity.

I mean, that feels, for lack of a better word, it feels foreign. Like, it feels like something that would never happen through any kind of traditional, we have this property and we better do something with it, means. I don't know. There's inclusiveness inclusiveness i think to all their films and i think um there's even just a fact that they don't call out the differences between people i mean a lot of this cast is australian and i assumed it was because they filmed this movie in australia they didn't they filmed it in germany yeah but they had it was they made buddies yeah right and they brought

the people over and there's no one going like hey wait why is like most other movies like this would have a scene explaining how

what's his name Sparky Sparky like joined up with the family why is this Australian guy with us and the film is just

this melting pot where it's like you know think about the amount of movies you've seen who is that Kit Gurry what do I know him from

he's so familiar oh he's in Edge of Tomorrow? He plays? He's one of the ensemble in Edge of Tomorrow. I'll tell you which member of the ensemble he is. He's the one who makes the joke at the beginning of every, right? Well, go ahead. His name's Griff.

Oh, his name is Griff, huh? That's why I remember. Oh, you know the name of the original creator of Speed Racer? Shoot. Yoshida. Ah. Ah. Is there anything for me in this?

I think there's a David in there somewhere. There's probably a David in there somewhere. There's probably a David. It's a common name. Hey, cinematography David Tattersall. Oh, yeah. There we go. Tattersall.

Yeah. Oh, that wasn't. Oh, I thought that. It was the guy who shot all the Star Wars prequels. Oh. Oh, very interesting. I thought that it was a Bill Pope. It's not a Bill Pope joint.

He was busy on other, he was making Spider-Man 3 probably. You know, Bill Pope had been snapped up by Raimi again. Sidebar, Ryan Reynolds' character in the movie Criminal,

the Kevin Costner movie, is named Bill Pope and it's very distracting because the whole idea is that Bill Pope is dead and they're trying to inject his memories into Kevin Costner's brain. so they keep on going like you are bill pope who is bill pope is kevin costner want to be a brilliant cinematographer or something maybe yeah

i don't know a criminal an odd movie um just so this isn't a hanging thread before i forget uh the the thing i was getting up with john goodman's alcoholism not just to like throw under a bus and be like oh he was a drunkard. What I have heard is that the family, the racer family in the film, the actors playing them, really sort of became a family unit bonded around John Goodman to help him through this time. That is fucking beautiful. The word is beautiful. See, I knew I had to finish that one. They all apparently kept in touch and checked in with him and were like, we're going to get you through this.

This film meant a lot to everyone emotionally working on it. And this is the major case for like, okay, maybe the problem with movies that are 100% CGI where everything's shot on a green screen isn't necessarily the technique. Maybe it's the fact that they're made like things on a conveyor belt. Right, right. a conveyor belt. Like, it's not... Right, right. Like, if the cast... You can tell when the cast is invested,

when the people who are making the film and shooting the film and making the props and everything are invested. Connected is also a good word. Yeah, yeah. Because they, like, have something to tether onto.

Yeah, connected. Like, another actor or whatever their reference points they are that they're being given. And the fact they all wanted to make another one. Like, I think that there were... There could have been a lot of versions

of this movie where everybody just, like, peaces out afterwards and never sees each other again. Because they're like, well, we got that one in the can. Most like prospective franchise starters, when you see the actors making the press rounds and they're like, so you signed up for more sequels? There's always a sort of tone of like, uh, right.

If my agent says I am contractually obliged to be in a sequel. We'll see what happens. You know, but this one they were like, oh God, we want to do it so badly. We want to get back to Germany. So, yeah, it's really, really amazing

how much this syncs up with the actual text of the film. Like, it's crazy. I also think, again, I need another cigarette.

I really just, we're having a great time. There's another point to that I want to build up to, but I think, talk about Emile Hirsch's performance and how good he is behind the wheel of the car. And the lines, the times where he has to throw out lines in the car don't work that well, talk about Emile Hirsch's performance and how good he is behind the wheel of the car.

And the lines, the times where he has to throw out lines in the car don't work that well, but it's also, that's a weird thing. I think all the emotional scenes where he's grounded

with another actor in conversation, that's a really tough thing to play is just like a dude who's just so optimistic. Total sincerity. It's very hard to play uncomplicated people.

Because like, playing a bad guy, there's like a lot of tics he can jump onto and you like, you know, you express your sort of like inner evil or whatever it is. But to just play a guy who's just like, racism's all I know, so I got to do something. It's like it's tough to do that and not seem corny. And he has no there seems to be no internal checker of him in him of like, is this going to sound stupid? Yeah.

Like he's just so there's so much conviction behind everything he's saying he sells all those speeches the other guy in the film who I think does that super super well is Matthew Fox I was waiting for us to get to Matthew Fox maybe my favorite performance in the film another notorious jerk we should say yeah Matthew Fox is a reprehensible human being

who beats women is that true oh fuck what didn't he like beat up some lady I didn't know that that sucks ugh I fucking hate? Didn't he beat up some ladies? I didn't know that. That sucks. I fucking hate that. All those lost people are kind of like, I don't know.

I get a bad vibe. But this is the line I thought you were going to open with. He's going to be good. No, he's not going to. No, he's going to be the best if they don't destroy him first.

I couldn't figure out how to put podcasting. If they don't podcast him. Just so we don't get sued. Because I am making scurrilous accusations against Matthew Fox. Who is a big fan of the show. Huge fan of the show. He was reported to have punched a female bus

driver in the chest and pelvic area after attempting to board a party bus reserved for a private bachelor party. Yes, I remember the party bus. Now, I don't think this was ever resolved. He said he didn't do it and like you know, it's one of those things where it's all allegedly, allegedly. But I do remember Dominic Monaghan years later giving some interview where he was asked, oh, do you stay in touch with Matthew Fox? And Dominic Monaghan was like, that guy beats up women.

Fuck him. I don't hang out with that guy. Which is interesting about the Lost guys, because I think they almost never hung out, because Lost was this weird tapestry of stories where people would rarely cross over on set. But anyway, so Matthew Fox, weird reputation. So good in the movie. Watching this movie

I'm a big Matthew Fox acting fan. Same here. I mean, it definitely felt like when Lost was at its peak, like this guy is going to have a big movie career when this ends. And this was one of maybe two or three projects that didn't connect and then he wiped out, which maybe it's because of him being difficult to work with as a person. I think he's somewhat of a challenge.

What do you think of Matthew Fox? I don't have it. I was never a Lost fan, so I don't have a connection to him. Huge Lost fan. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I'm actually, if we're going to talk about Racer X slash Rex, I'm more interested in Scott Porter. Oh, yeah.

Street. I mean, Friday Night Lights. I mean, this is. This is also when like peak Friday Night Lights. Friday Night Lights is probably in its second season. It's in its second season. But this he probably was cast off of the first season. Off of the pilot, basically.

And for being another pure, completely unassailable, positive beam of sunshine. He is perfectly cast. Is that who he is? I've never seen an episode of Friday Night Lights. Oh, my God. That's his character. Friday Night Lights, one of the greatest TV shows

of this sort of golden age of TV or whatever. But he is so like the golden boy in Friday Night Lights and he is so perfect for the golden boy here, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's completely why I was, he didn't have to do that much. I just like the idea of Scott Porter

getting plastic surgery and turning into Matthew Fox. Yo, give me some Matthew Fox up here. I need to turn dark. I want like a B-list famous face though. Also, he is a great casting for Emile Hirsch's brother. Those two have a very similar look. I remember finding the plastic surgery plot funny

because they're both sort of like, they don't look the same, but they're also both sort of like very generically handsome white guys. Yeah, they're both strong-jawed men. Give me strong-jawed B instead of strong-jawed C. Right. Yeah, it's like they went into the video game and they sort of just swapped out a few features. Swapped the me feature. The biggest difference between the two of them is that Matthew Fox's face is longer, which you wouldn't be able to achieve with plastic surgery.

That's your complaint? No, I'm not complaining about this. Cars exploded to pink fairy dust in this movie. I'm not complaining about this. I'm saying I like this. It's all part of the film that's so fantastical and so unconcerned with reality but it's not like one of them has a very specific nose and it's like, give me that nose. It's just like one candle to another.

I think Matthew Fox for me threads this needle where the scenes where he like has to be proud of speed i think emotionally he's like very there but also i think he's doing a perfect impression of the acting style of the actors the american actors who dub speed racer like even the staccato rhythms of the dialogue he's going to be very good yeah um love this movie i forgot i tweeted out this screenshot which is one of my favorites oh yeah when i think it of the dialogue. It's going to be very good. Yeah. Love this movie. I forgot, I tweeted out this screenshot which is one of my favorites.

Oh, yeah. Which is when, I think it's during the It's the amazing montage. The montage is incredible. During the, I mean, For the,

with the Casa Cristo. Yeah, it's sort of like an off-road like kind of like subterranean race, right? And it's like

Speed is doing this to qualify for the Grand Prix yeah but there's also a lot of other stuff going on it's like a notorious well it's the that's the one that

that Rex died on right it's the one that Rex died on where you go through like the ice but anyway and Speed is being attacked by all these people

and every time he gets attacked by a new person we get a flashback to like them being bought off yeah and there's these like I don't know army people.

Like, I mean, it's very Wacky Racers where everyone has a gimmick. It's totally Wacky Racers. Yeah. Everyone's car is a gimmick. It's like, we're the Western car. Or it's like Warriors or something. Yeah, like the Warriors. Yeah, no, it's like there's a crew of, like, girl racers who get bought off with diamonds.

Yes, yes. And they throw diamonds at people. Yes. And then there's, like, Viking racers that like have like huge legs of like mutton being brought out to them to like bribe. It's so bananas. It's so weird.

And there's these army guys who are shown like a briefcase full of money or whatever and we see the dollar signs in their eyes as they look and then they become the horizon of the race as the cars are like racing around just because you didn't get

that this movie is like a treatise on capitalism like it's the best can we talk about that like intercut with royalton's speech about how everything works sure which is already intercut with uh sprital and looking for candy right and fucking tweaking out yeah they're also showing you the race that hasn't happened yet. Yes. With Royalton calling what's going to happen. He's like, okay,

you want to play by your own rules? Sure. Here's how the next race is going to go. And they like, show you Royalton's projection of that race

and then when the film narratively gets to that race in real time, like 10, 15 minutes later, they don't really show it to us. They show us the beginning and the end

and it's like, yep, what he called like just happened. No, and that whole, and the end, and it's like, yep, what he called just happened. No, and that whole, when he projects it, it's in-depth enough and long enough that you actually think we've just transitioned to watching the race.

Yeah. But then, I mean, it's clear enough by the end of it, but it's just like, it's another one of the ways that this film just plays with time in a way that's unconventional, but you can actually totally follow along with. It's not confusing. Every moment in your life

is like directly connected to the moments that have happened and the moments that are yet to happen. Like it's all sort of this time's a flat circle. Fuck me, bullshit, stupid. Griffin, negative five comedy points. Negative 500.

Yeah, but it is. True Detective season three. No, go ahead. It is that kind of thing. The balance between art and commerce, because they're not just saying it's bad. There is this thing where it's like, there's this line I just want to pull up

where it's the scene with a trick scene speed in the car when they drive to lover's point or whatever it is. And then, of course, they find out that Sprite, Ol' and Chim Chim are in the backseat because they knew that they were going to go get ice cream and they want ice cream. They changed priorities. There's an implication that they were in the trunk for a whole race or something.

They should be dead. They weren't in the whole race, just when they went out. But even then, you know. They should be dead. The reason they find out they're in the trunk is because when Speed and Trixie are about to kiss, they go like, Oh, gross! They hear the sound of kissing and they get so disgusted.

And they interrupt a kiss scene at the end very very end yeah it's saying like we need cootie shots to watch the scene or whatever like if you're cootie uh sensitive i forget let's make this clear at this moment in the film speed racer is like if i win the race in front of all the flash bulbs i'm gonna dip you and then kiss you which is the most romantic thing in the world, right? Spritele and Trim Trim are like fucking gross. At the end of the film, this cathartic moment, like orgasm upon orgasm, like everything's happened and you're like, oh shit, he's going to do it now.

Like you see the shot of the flashbulbs from his perspective. You see Trixie's there. He's holding up the trophy. He turns to Trixie. He grabs her. He dips her. And you're like, oh my God, oh my God.

The film stops. Spritele and Trim Trim are superimposed over the images wearing doctor's coats. And they go, warning. Yeah, they cut the headband thing. Like, it's not like they interrupt the scene. Why do doctors have that silver thing on their heads? Is that for listening to? No, no, that's the stuff.

Oh, yeah. But like, you know what? Whatever. So you can see yourself and make sure you don't have anything in your teeth when the doctor's operating on you. Fair enough. Fair enough. It's a satellite dish.

But it's not like, oh, Spidle and Chim Chim interrupt the scene dramatically. Spidle and Chim Chim suddenly become the authors of the film. Yeah. Like, they're like telling you how to watch the movie. Yeah. But in that scene before Spidle and Chim Chim so rudely interrupt them, there's this dialogue exchange I think is really great, where Speed's talking about, like, I just want to win

this race, this and that. And this is before the Royalton scene, so he's just excited about the fact that he's now qualified for the next race. And Trixie says, since when did winning become so important? And Speed says, it is important. You gotta win if you want to keep driving, and that's what I want to do. It's the only thing I really know how to do.

And I think that line, you gotta win if you want to keep driving, and that's what I want to do. It's the only thing I really know how to do. And I think that line, you got to win if you want to keep driving, is like such a concise explanation of the way the film industry works because it is such a high stakes, money driven business that like, it's not that they care about success

in and of itself, but they want to keep on operating on this level. They're race car drivers. They need a track. They need a car. The Wachowskis aren't going to go and make another bound. They're not going to like slink back into the indie film world or whatever.

Right. And they're two of the filmmakers who have consistently made an argument that they should exclusively be working on this scale because they know how to use it and they have big ideas and they want to cross genres. They're innovators.

They need that many different colors on their palette. And so the balance of this film is like Speed wants to stick to his guns. He doesn't want to get bought out. But he also wants to win the race. He wants to beat everyone because he needs to keep racing. He wants to do the Grand Prix. He wants to do the biggest race. He wants the same amount of opportunities that they're getting.

He just doesn't want to have to sacrifice anything for it. And it's this whole battle of like, can I do everything I want to do exactly my way? Is it possible? And it's not just because like, it's because I think the Wachowskis are saying if they won playing someone else's game, it wouldn't really feel like a victory to them. That would be hollow.

They need to try to like pull off the grand, like, you know, scheme of like winning on our terms. They've also been cursed with the knowledge that this is possible. Yeah. But like. Sure. Right. One in a million shot. Which is the first race. Yeah. First race. Yeah. And no one interferes at all. Yeah. And that's the Matrix. Yep. Now, Merchandise Spotlight, this film had one of the most extreme merchandising advertising complaints in history. For like the first film of a franchise, for a franchise starter. Let me find this article here.

They talked about, so this article was from like six months, right? Before the film came out. Stupid internet. before the film came out. Yep. Stupid internet. They had like one of the largest collections of like licensing partners,

products, tie-ins. Just give us the abridged version. Yeah. So the studio has enlisted a lengthy lineup of promotional partners who will point up

at least $80 million in additional marketing support around the film. General Mills, McDonald's, Target, Mattel, Lego, Tops, e-surance. Like, they were going from, like, all aspects. Right. Making Speed Racer products, e-surance going to adults, McDonald's going to Happy Meals. They even did the thing where, like, you know.

E-surance is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. But they were, like, covering all bases. Yeah. And you know the way that like you know very much gender binary McDonald's would do like the Happy Meals where it's like oh do you want the girls toy

or the boys toy. And it would often be like do you want Hot Wheels or do you want Barbie. The Speed Racer campaign was do you want Speed Racer or do

you want Trixie. Like they had like two parallel lines and the girls toys quote unquote that month were just like Trixie stuff. And the boys toys were Speed Racer.

Like they were like Trixie does get a fun action' toys were Speed Racer. Like, they were like. Trixie does get a fun action. She gets to be in the car. She gets to race, which is awesome. It's a little. It's. It's a little cheesy. It's a little shoehorned in.

Where they're like, look, Trixie gets to be in the car. For like, like a mile of track. Right. And she's like, okay, back to you. I have my fun. Yeah. Like, she does have a helicopter, so that's. I do like her cool visor.

Yeah. I like her look. Yeah. I like Christine Ricci's look in this movie from start to finish. It's also, like, I was going back and looking... I think Annalie Newitz on io9 made the case that this is, like, a massively underrated film. And just pointed out the fact that Christina Ricci as Trixie is, like, super, super girly, but also, like, is a gearhead and that's that actually feels more interesting

to me than if she would have just been like a cool tomboy or whatever yeah yeah or like doing the whole yeah like being a fellow racer or something this film also gets at this very optimistic idea that you can like meet your best gal when you're like six oh yeah and you're just like best friends and lovers forever I also like the idea that you can like meet your best gal when you're like six. Oh yeah. And you're just like best friends and lovers forever.

I also like the idea that like she is not like scared for Speed Racer or like afraid of racing or anything like that. It's not like she's on the sidelines going like oh no. Like yeah. No she's like jazz. She's always like grinning ear to ear watching. Smash those people. And that she's part of the

family. Like she's accepted by all of them. Can we also call out, because I think this had to be conscious, and I don't know if it was just them commenting on the animation style and similar face types, but Christina Ricci and Susan Sarandon look identical in this film. Really?

I think they look so similar in this movie. And I don't think they usually do. I think something about how they're styled, the film, I think they have very similar looks. She looks a lot like Susan right there, I'll say that. Yeah. In that picture from the Tribeca Film Festival. I think they have similar smiles.

Yeah. They put all this money into it. They had all these partners, and then the film bombed like really, really hard. Yeah, we'll talk about that in a second. Yeah, and they, you know, I have this Variety article here that was published the week after the film came out where warner brothers was trying to do all this spin being like i still think we're going to be the most successful marketing campaign

of the merchandising campaign of the summer like we're going to be one of the big sellers because it was just like cars and shit right but they just made like fucking everything for this film i mean every flavor of every food, every car and every version, every racer, all this stuff. And then it didn't really connect at all. There's one item, if I can spotlight, which I'm now trying to find for a reasonable price on eBay,

which I think is so beautiful. They made, not a high-end replica version, but a kid's Toys R Us version of the Speed Racer helmet that had all the sounds in the helmet. So like you could wear the helmet and like be a kid on playground, pretend to be Speed Racer. And if you turned, it would like make it sound like you were like turning, which I think the whole idea of this movie is that like Speed Racer races the way little boys like little girls imagine being behind the wheel of a car and just going like. behind the wheel of a car and just going like

vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom. Well, there's that amazing scene at the beginning where he's like drawing pictures of race cars and he starts to imagine himself in his drawings.

Oh, yeah, and the animation like starts moving. Yeah, it's like a payola. Yeah. And it's also like really, really low frame rate animation which I totally connected

to the original even though it's like kid's style drawing where it's just like you can fill in the blanks of like this being thrilling and exciting even though it's not like super high res the way this film is like it doesn't really matter like

if it's exciting to you it will be exciting so this is this idea i want to get at um despite the fact that they were given i think full creative freedom to make this movie exactly how they want because this is a phone absolutely smells like zero studio interference because it's very risky in a number of ways and no one would approve it other than if they like part of the deal was we get to do exactly what we want you guys have to fucking bone out and they

had sort of Joel Silver as their protector. Yeah and Viva Vendetta had been a surprise hit for an R-rated like wacky dystopian movie so that even though the Matrix movies maybe had bombed a little bit but they still made money, you know, that was,

you know, that helped them get along I think to this. Disney Pixar's Cars came out two years before this and was one of the most and remains to this day one of the most successful

merchandising films in history. Like within a year of its release. But what is your point? So they were like, that's our end. We got fucking cars and stuff. Warner Brothers still was their Royalton. Warner Brothers was signing the checks.

They'd made all the Matrix movies, yeah. And what Warner Brothers tried to do with this film is Royalton the audiences into liking it. Right. You know, in the same way that Royalton like fixes the races, they were like, if we promote it this way, this aggressively, if we have the merchandising everywhere. I think they were freaked out by this film, but they were like, we didn't get the Matrix and it worked with people. So if we merchandise it and present it like it's any franchise that kids already like and we make it like just so existent around us, we'll like fix the race. And there is this aspect to like a lot of movies do well just because they promote them like they're going to do well. Yeah, they retcon the fact that you already love it.

Right. Yeah, they at least do okay. Maybe they're not. I mean, sort of Batman versus Superman is kind of an example of that where it kind of couldn't not at least make money. I would argue that Captain American Civil War is an example of everybody just already deciding they liked it before. Totally. I mean, but that's, I mean, of course, Speed Racer got curb stomped by Iron Man. We'll talk about that in a second. There's a great Mr.

Show sketch. Yeah. Coupon the movie in which they make this movie because they're like, everyone loves coupons. Why wouldn't they like a movie about coupons? And the movie bombs and the scene is all these executives trying to figure out who greenlit the movie. Right. There was no creative inspiration. It was just people love coupons. They're using the coupon. Why aren't they seeing the movie?

And the sketch turns into a court hearing where they have to bring every single American citizen on trial to question them why they didn't go see Coupon the Movie. And it ends with the judge decreeing that everyone legally is mandated to go see Coupon the Movie. And the trailer at the end has these like pull quotes that are like

a required romp. You know, a mandatory thrill ride. And that was what they were trying to pull out there. There is a perfunctory sort of predestined attitude to a lot of, I think, marketing campaigns and merchandising campaigns for movies, especially Batman v Superman, where it's like, it doesn't matter whether or not you think this looks good.

We know you're going to see it, you fucking assholes. Just go buy the ticket. And I think Royalton, like Warner Brothers, was going like, if we sell it like it's a movie that everyone wants to see confidently everyone will want to see it and it didn't work no like usually this works to some degree well i think a lot of people went to go see it first weekend and it totally dropped off the next opening weekend was small and then it just got smaller oh really yeah well we'll talk about that in a second but first i want to run some things by you guys.

Please. Okay. One, other options for Speed Racer were Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Shia LaBeouf. The other one I heard. What do you think about that? Nope. The other guy I heard got close. Not long enough eyelashes.

Sorry. The other guy I heard got close and was the front runner briefly, but then proved himself to be difficult, wanted too much money for, was my boy, Zac Efron. Oh, yeah. He would have been good. Yeah, Efron would have been good. He has the right vibe. He was in that pocket right then.

But it was High School Musical 2, and he thought he was hot shit and apparently came in with too many demands. Other options for Trixie were Elisha Cuthbert and Kate Mara. But it was going to be Christina Ricci. There's no way it's not Christina Ricci. She's the only person who could have been Trixie were Elisha Cuthbert and Kate Mara. But it was going to be Christina Ricci. No way it's not Christina Ricci. She's the only person who could have been Trixie. And like I mean we briefly

talked about the torture development process but I mean like you know yeah it was originally optioned by Warner Brothers in 92. Johnny Depp was going to be in it with Henry Rollins as Racer X.

Johnny Depp would have been the weirdest speeder. Like he would. Oh yeah. I mean Julian Temple the like famous British kind of like punk filmmaker who made like the, you know, great rock and roll swindle and all those like sex business. Earth Girls Are Easy.

Father Of. God knows what that was. I'm looking forward to you getting to the one where Hype Williams was going to direct it. Hype Williams was going to direct it. Well, so just some other ideas. Gus Van Sant came in and then he left. Alfonso Cuaron came in in the late 90s and left. I know Gondry was developing it at one point.

Was that with Gondry and Cuaron were going to do it together, or what was the deal? I don't know. Those were separate versions. I think that's when Johnny Depp was still loosely attached. Lauren Shuler Donner, who is the Warner Brothers maven at the time, hires Hype Williams. That falls through.

Vince Vaughn wants to play Racer X, as you say. That falls through. And then in 06, they bring in the Wachowskis. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy how hard they tried to make this movie. How long had it been since the Wachowskis had wrapped on Matrix? I mean, so 06 would have been three years after Re-

It came out. Yeah, Re-Revolution came out. So it's probably four plus years since they wrapped filming. And so that's just when they were doing V for Vendetta. Right. I'm not sure why they didn't direct V for Vendetta. I don't know. James McTeague, who's their first AD, directed it.

But for some reason, they just sort of creatively oversaw V for Vendetta. And I guess they had their fingers in a lot of pies because didn't they produce like another action? I can't remember. I can't get into this. Ninja Assassin came out after. Ninja Assassin, that's what I'm thinking of. Yeah, but there was because they discovered Rain on this and then built a vehicle around him. They were spinning a lot of plates. But they also were doing all the sort of like supplemental

extended Matrix stuff. So they had the Matrix Online, which was this like MMO that they were writing. You know, I mean, Paul Chadwick was the main writer for it, but they were overseeing that. They shaped the story of Matrix Online. They started their own comic book imprint. Their own. I think they weren't even controlled by anyone else.

And they had like three original titles going. They were writing comic books. I mean, they were trying to do all these different sort of multimedia things. All right. I want to talk about the box office. Yes, please. This is my favorite part. Can you give me the five?

I think I might be able to nail this one. So it's the second week of May 2008, right? It's the weekend of May 9th. I had just moved to the United States. Wow! The first film I saw when I moved here was Smart People with Ellen Page and Dennis Quaid.

Who remembers that one? But then, like, Iron Man. Yeah. Okay, so Iron Man's the number one film. It came out the week before it was a massive massive success yes and its second weekend it made 51 million dollars right

and it crested past 100 million the first weekend right so it's like do people just not think that Iron Man was gonna be that big of a deal

because why nobody thought it was gonna be big why would you release Speed Race in the same week is it nobody thought it was gonna be big it was starred an unproven you know

box office draw not that RDJ's not the greatest but I know that's the only reason same week is it like nobody thought it was going to be big it was starred a unproven you know box office draw not that rdj is not the greatest but i know that's the only reason i went to go see it though i didn't give a shit about iron man i wanted to see rob downey jr it was about marvel's it was about marvel's what like 12th most famous superhero like nobody knows iron man iron man you're just like oh that's the guy ghostface kill is obsessed with, right? It's like sort of like a... It was their first one that they were independently financing. No, of course.

They had not been bought by a company yet, so they had gotten like a $1 billion loan from Merrill Lynch. And the whole thing was like, if these movies flops, then Merrill Lynch will own Marvel.

And it was viewed as this like stupid gamble. It was directed by Jon Favreau, who was, you know, had just come off of Zathura. Which we love, but was a massive flop. Zathura? Zathura! Oh my God. With Dax Shepard andathura. Which we love, but was a massive flop. Zathura!

Zathura! Oh my God. With Dax Shepard and Kristen Stewart. Even when people, and Joss Hutcherson. Yep. Even when people thought that film was going to be big, when the trailer started getting good response, I don't think anyone thought it was going to be that big.

Yeah. And then it was so well-liked that it was like, oh, this is going to hold well second weekend. It's not a film where they royal-tinned audiences into showing up. It was like people wanted to see it again. No, it was a genuine hit. So number one with a bullet. Number two I remember because people were like, okay

Iron Man's going to be number one. Speed Racer might do 30, 40 million dollars and Iron Man will do like 50, 60. Number two I remember this distinctly was what happens in Vegas. With the kutch. And Cameron Diaz and Zach Galifianakis. Lake Bell, Rob Corddry.

Weird cast. Opened to 20 mil. Right. So that was like the big, like, oh, fuck. They couldn't even outgross What Happens in Vegas. What Happens in Vegas, which grossed $219 million worldwide. More than double what Speed Racer made worldwide. That is horrible.

Does anyone remember anything about that movie? I saw that movie in theaters. No, but do you remember anything about it? Zach Galifianakis' character I believe is named The Bear. Great. Did that come out before or after The Hangover? Before.

Before? Yeah. The Hangover comes out later this year or is it 09? 09. Oh, it's 09. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was in France when it came out. I'm just trying to place my mind in the moment. Emily, where are you when Speed Racer comes out? I am finishing up

my last year film school. Nice. But I did not see it that weekend because I saw Iron Man. I didn't see it until later. But I was, yeah, I mean, one of the reasons that this film is, I have a soft spot for it also, is that I had just, you know, had a firsthand experience trying to make an anime-style live-action thing. Like, very against all advice from any teacher that I had. They were like, you should not do this.

You do not have enough money to do this. I tried to do it anyway. And so I respected the game. The effort. The endeavor. Yeah. But yeah, I don't think I saw it until a couple weeks later. Okay, so the top three is Iron Man,

What Happens in Vegas, and then Speed Racer. Speed Racer opens to 18.5 mil, finishes domestic 43, which is pretty terrible. Yeah. And internationally makes another 50 million. Yeah, 43 is disastrous. And it finishes with 93 million worldwide. Yeah. It's kind of crazy.

They claim that the merchandising did well enough that they sort of didn't lose that much money on the movie, but I think that was spin. They all have money. Yeah. We all fucking talk about box office, but they're all multi-billion dollar companies. Sometimes we just have to, they're all fine. It's not like Warner Brothers is going to be like, no movies this year, out of money. Also, when their movies do very well, they do sneaky accounting to make it look like they didn't do well,

so they don't have to pay out people. I remember when my, anyway, it doesn't matter. Can you guess number four? That's what I'm trying to think. So these would have been April holdovers, four or five or April holdovers. Number four is only the second. It was number four was released as counter programming to Iron Man. It's only the second week in theaters.

I saw it in theaters. It was based on a trend that does not exist. I worked for People Magazine at the time when it was announced. And I remember my boss saying like, hey, can you find some real life examples of this? And I said, I fucking rooted through the LexisNexis and found nothing. You're not going to get it. Is it a horror film?

No, it's a romantic comedy. It's a romantic comedy based on a trend that doesn't exist. Nope. The Lake House. But that's a good joke. It's a good joke. Thank you.

Maid of Honor, starring Patrick Dempsey and Michelle Monaghan. Jesus Christ. About the male maid of honor trend. Remember that thing where it's like, ah, women are having guys be the maid of honor. This is a real, real hot season for just awful romantic comedy. For just gutter trash romantic comedy. Yeah.

Like, 05 to the latter half of that decade, I feel like. Just everything Katherine Heigl. Well, that that decade. I feel like just everything, everything, Catherine Heigl. Well, that's the thing I was going to say Heigl. Cause it's when Hollywood scrambling for like, who's the,

at the top of this heap and they don't, and they're like, is it Catherine Heigl? Like they're kind of trying to like, is it this person? They were scooping through grays. Yeah. They were going Dempsey.

Nah. Heigl. Nah. Hudson. Uh, number, so made of honor. Yeah. It's number four. Yeah. With $8 million. So, Maid of Honor, yeah. Is number four.

Yeah, with $8 million. Number five. Give me a hint. This is an April holdover. I thought that you were talking about this trend. Oh, yeah, sure. This is a real trend. This is a real thing.

Yeah, this is a real thing. It's another comedy. You wouldn't call it a rom-com, would you? It's more just a com. It's a com. This is an April holdover? Yeah, it's a two-hander. It's a two-hander. So, it's an April holdover? Yeah, it's a two-hander. It's a two-hander, so it's an

April holdover, which means it would have... A beloved comic duo. If it's still number five, it means that it was probably doing very well in April, right? This was the top... It did okay. It was fine. It did fine. Fine. And it's a beloved comic duo. Yeah, but not a beloved movie. No. But is

it a male-female pairing? Female-female. Oh, Baby Mama. Thank you. Tina Fey and Amy Poehler. I like that movie. You hate it. We've talked about this. That movie ends with Tina Fey being like, it's okay. I don't have to get pregnant to have value as a person. And then she's like, I'm pregnant! And the movie ends. It's the worst.

I still like that movie. It's a disgusting movie. No, it's bad. Steve Martin's great. It's kind of like dating. You have to realize that you're fine on your own before you can have a boyfriend. Oh, I finally have achieved true independence. Oh, who's this? Yeah. I did recently interview Jeff Richman, who did the music for Baby Mama and does all the

music for all of Tina Fey's shows and stuff. And he wrote all the music for Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. And he was very nice. Did he say anything about Baby Mama? Did not get into Baby Mama. That is one of those rare comedies that is scored all the way through originally every episode. Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, it's crazy. Richmond, man. I mean. There's not cues. That's the thing. I would say I have this whole grand theory about how every sitcom needs a laugh track even if it doesn't have a laugh track. And I would say that the face shows the music is the laugh track.

For sure. You know, like where it's like The Office or whatever, Modern Family, it's the, you know, the talking heads are the laugh track for sure you know like where it's like The Office or whatever Modern Family it's the you know the talking heads are the laugh track yeah I agree other movies forgetting Sarah Marshall

is sticking around right you've got Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay the best of the trilogy oh I so strongly disagree with that oh I go 2-1-3 I think that movie is terrible

I think that movie is great we'll argue about that some other time I think that movie is very smart you've that movie is great. We'll argue about that some other time. I think that movie's very smart. You've got The Forbidden Kingdom. What's that? Jet Li versus Jackie Chan with Michael Añorano. I've never seen it. He's a white boy who gets stuck in the middle of Monkey King fighting.

You've got Nims Island. Nims Island. What's that? It's a Jodie Foster. It's a Jodie Foster. It's a Jodie Foster joint. Abigail Breslin and gerard butler holy shit she plays like a fantasy children's writer who then abigail breslin ends up in her

book yeah abigail breslin is like the heroine i never saw this it's like it's like inkheart it's this weird trend of like people want just weirdo fantasy about authors stranger than fiction stranger than fiction horrible i hate that movie. Horrible. So, oh, yeah. I was, one of my friends at the time who was an actor

who was a little younger than me was very close to getting one of the lead roles in Nim's Island that then they cast Gerard Butler in.

He was like, he must have been 16 at the time. Oh my God. And the character was written as a 16 year old and then like 300 came out and they were like, ah, fuck it, Gerard Butler.. He was like, he must have been 16 at the time. Oh my God. And the character was written as a 16 year old and then like 300 came out

and they were like, ah fuck it, Gerard Butler. Oh my God. And they rewrote the character to make him 30 years older. Which like told me everything I need to know

about that movie. It's a fixed rate, they royal tinned it. Yeah. Did you guys see Gods of Egypt? No, I know you love it. Butler's great in it.

Anyway, some of the movies. Stop. He's so good. I'm sorry I did. Butler rides, fuck it anyway some of the movies stop he's so good I'm sorry I did Butler rides fuck it no it doesn't matter

you can't just casually mention that Gerard Butler is great in Gods of Egypt and not be prepared to expound on that it's just yeah no that's like

irresponsible that's like leaving a bomb in a room and then like walking out it's a dialed in performance he rides a chariot that is pulled by giant beetles.

At one point, he kills Jeffrey Rush, who is Ra, the sun god, on his chariot. You're complimenting his performance on things that the character does. I know. I just like to say those two things. But no, I can't describe. He just understands what the movie is, and not everyone in that movie understands what the movie is. I'll see it. He's very funny.

I think it's a great performance. I like Gerard Butler. Emily's wincing. I'll see it. He's very funny. I think it's a great performance. I like Gerard Butler. Emily's wincing. I don't either. I don't know. Of all the weird things to go to the mat for, I don't know. Definitely go to the mat for him. He's one of your guys?

Yeah, but then I hate Olympus Has Fallen, which I know you like. I think that movie's awful. Yeah, I like that movie maybe because of its awfulness. I like how misanthropic that film is. Some other movies. Prom Night. Was that like a remake of an old horror movie? Prom Night had Scott Porter in it.

Hey! Interesting. He had two openings. Good for him. When did that come out that week? No, Prom Night's been lingering for five weeks on the air, so it was an April release. You've got Red Belt,

the David Mamet martial arts, underground Chiwetel Ejiofor. A film I like a lot. I've never seen it. Tim Allen's very good in that movie. We're saying a lot of things right now. You've got 21, the card counting movie that turned all the Asian people into white people.

Yeah. Starring one of the leads of next week's subject. Jim Sturgis. Yeah. Cloud Atlas. You've got The Visitor. You've got. Yeah.

The Visitor. The Richard Jenkins movie. Yeah. 2008. Bad. Bad year. I think 2008 is a pretty junky year.

2007 was so phenomenal. I feel like we had to take a breather after that. But later this summer we had a lot of huge films. I mean not great films but like big box office. I mean Indiana Jones comes out a couple weeks later. Then you had Kung Fu Panda and WALL-E, not great films, but like big box office. I mean, Indiana Jones comes out

a couple weeks later. Then you had Kung Fu Panda and WALL-E were both huge. WALL-E was big. WALL-E's a masterpiece. And of course you got The Dark Knight that year. Right, right, which is one of the biggest films of all time. So it was a big year for like franchise studio films because you have Iron Man too, of course. But I think for film, I don't

know. I don't remember anything. Yeah, you've got Rachel Getting Married is pretty good yeah you've got Milk you've got Synecdoche lots of downers Synecdoche

a lot of downers you've got WALL-E which you love you know let the right one in Cadillac Records which I think is an underrated I agree yeah

Cloverfield right at the start of the year one of my favorite films that year best picture that year is really some fun movies shitty though

best picture that year is like Slumdog The Reader, Slumdog, Milk Which Is Great, Benjamin Button, Frost Nixon. Oh, right. That's putrid. And that's the year where the Academy is like

let's have ten nominees. That's why they add it because everyone was like Dark Knight, WALL-E, Gran Torino. There were like five movies that were like big commercial successes that didn't make it. That didn't make the cut. And then like five movies that no one really gave a that didn't make it that didn't make the cut and then they like five movies that no one really

gave a shit about was that the year though was that Catherine Bigelow no that's the year after that's 09 because that's versus Avatar

that's versus Avatar oh no that's right okay yeah I'm missing because I remember where I was when I watched that Oscars and I was with like

people that I went to school with and all these girls were like hugging each other because it was very a good moment. Oh, because Bigelow took the stage.

Three of the terrible prestige movies in 08 are Doubt, The Reader and Revolutionary Road. They're right at the bottom of my list. Three movies that really made my skin crawl.

I think Doubt, I think the other two I despise. I despise Doubt almost as much as the other two but I do despise the other two more.

I like the performances in Doubt enough that it carries it for me but the movie I just felt whatever I feel like that's like a genre of movie like superhero movies that I just don't see like like Kate Winslet movies I don't know I think the last movie like that I saw was probably

Little Children and it was so upsetting to me I used to love her so much and I like her but that was sort of a fulcrum year I felt like before 2008 she wasn't as much of a genre like now when I see Kate Winslet movies I'm like I don't want this movie

to exist and before that she was just in movies yeah I think we did well guys yeah there's a lot to talk about in this movie I mean everybody just needs to like if you haven't seen this movie and you're wondering whether or not

you should see it I know that this was like a very hyped up podcast and we were very very like we were the energy in this room was high we really wanted to get a lot of our like really really positive sincere feelings out I don't want people to go straight from this podcast and go watch it and then be like,

wait, what the fuck? This is like really, like parts of this are incredibly boring and indecisive. This movie is two hours and 15 minutes long. It's really long. Which is a little too long. And it's about race fixing.

And it's about race fixing in depth. Yeah, and the plot, especially in the middle there, which I was like with the race fixing and the inspector and all that, you know, doesn't make any sense and the whole like how

yeah they team up to like race direct and then they double cross each other yeah it's like they win the race but then it turns out they were just trying

like he was he had been racing for TogoCon and it was just like it doesn't matter but the important thing and I realized this when I was writing this down

when I was running on the train here is that so all these corrupt things and forces are happening in a lot of films there would be a beat of the film where Speed Racer gets corrupted and he like gives

in and he tastes the forbidden fruit and then he has to like never happens. Speed Racer is never corrupted in this film. The closest he comes to being corrupted is unwittingly participating in a race that was fixed for Togo Khan when he was racing with two other guys.

Like that is the but that was he didn't know. He had no idea and he was so mad about it afterwards. Yeah in a more traditional Hollywood thing he would sign on to Royalton at the beginning of the second act and then it would take longer but he would realize like oh this is all corrupt and then he'd

break free and like his indie like it'd be like Talladega Nights another great racing movie. Another subversion that this film doesn't do and I know we usually go through the plot in narrative order but I also think for a movie like this that is everything at the same time it's better just to talk about everything at the same time. This is a four dimensional movie. Yeah really truly

but the the Racer X subplot is that you know he was speed racers brother that he saw what was going on going on he faked his own death right but before that he walks away and pops racer says to him like if you walk out that door you're never coming back in this house and it sort of was the tragedy that like broke this family and there's the moment where you realize oh speed racers gotten pushed to the same point you know he wins the race he helps rain rain turns out to be part of the system he's like this whole thing's fucked i didn't qualify no one is pure in this thing i can't do it anymore and he's so burnt out on the sport that you recreate the same scene

where he's saying goodbye to sprital and you know walking out the door and pops is there and you're like this is going to be the same scene again and one of the three moments in this film that like brings me very close to tears if not actual tears is the speech that John Goodman gives where he's like I know you're going to walk out that door and there's nothing I can do about it but before you walk out can you just sit down and have a word with your old man for a second oh and he gives him this speech that's like I made this mistake and I'm not going to make make it again you're gonna do what you have to do but i want you to know that this door is always open like i want you to know there's nothing you can do that will stop me from loving you essentially and that's another scene where

you feel like it would be repeating the same thing and having pops yell at him yeah he has to learn the same lesson that the the one who came before him learned. No, but he's learned his lesson. Yeah. And the moment in this film that hits me the hardest emotionally isn't even Speed winning the race. It's the moment when, like, he's doing it, right?

I mean, there's also that beautiful moment where the car slows down and the engine gets blown out. Well, the end of it where it ends on its nose. When the car skid sets end on its nose. That's, I feel like, when you start laughing in the theater because you're like, what am I watching? What is happening?

It's a Hot Wheels moment. Like, if you were doing a Hot Wheels race with your friends, why wouldn't you have the car do that? But there's the moment where, like, the engine blows out and he's stuck on the side after he's, like, taken out another guy. And John Goodman's like, oh, this happened. He's going to need to remember to do this to restart his car. No, go ahead.

And Sarandon's like, will he know to do that? Yeah. What, Emily? It's just, that part is one of the only parts I roll my eyes at. Okay.

Because it's so use the force, Luke. Sure. Right, sure. He has to listen to the car. It's very good use the force, Luke. Yeah. But the moment in the race,

he's like taking these guys out one by one. He's making good time. All of this shit's happening. The moment that gets me is the moment in the race, he's like taking these guys at one by one. He's making good time. All of this shit's happening. The moment that gets me is the moment when Spritell stands up and he sort of has the Spielberg shot, you know, the wide open, the high angle. And he goes, he's going to do it. And I just get shivers even repeating it. Yeah.

And film Crit Hulk, a writer I like a lot, considers Speed Racer one of his favorite films of all time. And film Crit Hulk, a writer I like a lot, considers Speed Racer one of his favorite films of all time. He's written two pieces on it that you can find on Birth Movies Death that I highly recommend reading. But I just think he writes it very succinctly, so I want to read this thing that he wrote. Oh, yeah, whatever. No, he's fine. But he's talking about how there's a friend who doesn't like Speed Racer, who he's arguing with about it, and saying, like, look, obviously the scene is boring if they had to in post edit it with all the flashbacks to the stuff earlier from the race,

which is a total misinterpretation of it rather than that being baked into the pie, like part of the writing from the get-go. And Hulk's point, Hulk's point, this is a guy who writes anonymously as the Hulk doing film reviews. David doesn't like him as much as I do. I love it when people write in all caps.

He's the baby mama of people in our eyes. Wait, I don't get it. I like it and you think it's testable. No disrespect to film critic Hulk, but I think he sucks. I think I'm the Harold and Kumar. He's the Harold and Kumar.

I think he's very smart and you think it's ugly. Yep. But the point this guy's making is that like to have that happen cuts the tension of the scene. And he says like he'd argue the tension

is even the goal of the scene. The second speed slams on the gas pedal. His younger sibling literally tells us he's going to do it. It's all a foregone conclusion. Instead the scene becomes

a visual representation of the artist's catharsis, and in that process, the film finally subverts and recontextualizes the somewhat gross idea that some people are born artists. The guy's literal name is Speed Racer. By highlighting how every choice you make along your life brings you into a place, a moment where you're finally able to

do what you've wanted, where you're finally ready to create. As such, we see how much of this moment of racing is really about the people around him. These are his collaborators, his family, the community of people that enable him to do his very best. He's not alone. He's anything but alone. So unlike every sports movie ever, he's not proving people wrong. He's proving people right.

Which I think is a cool point, because most movies, it's like, are they going to pull it out at the last minute? And this moment's about the catharsis of everyone else around him realizing he's going to do it. This is the moment. This is his life. And for the final chunk of the race, when you're flashing back to all these moments, there is no tension because that's not what they're going for.

They're going for the emotional release of, like, everyone has been putting all their hopes and dreams onto speed. It's not a film about an underdog who nobody believes in. It's a film about a proven winner that needs to prove that it wasn't a fluke. That he's winning the right way. Yeah. I think we said it better than film Crit Hulk. Sorry. Sorry about it. It was an alley-oop. Alley-ooped his ball in the air so we could dunk it.

I'm interested to see what people, like, what people feedback you get from this film. Yeah, me too. Because I think, you know, I think it's interesting that we're all so high on it, but I think like maybe some people might not be.

No, and I think it's a tough sell. A lot of people don't like it. I think what you said about like, if you do want to watch the movie, do try to see it in the best quality possible because it really does all hinge on that. Unless you have the most amazing

internet connection in your house, I would not recommend streaming it. Yeah, like don't watch this on a MacBook Air or what, you know, like, you know, try to, if you, you know, and like don't rush to see it if you can't. Like, you know, it's a fun movie to experience whenever you kind of have the time.

And I'll throw out, because I rented it off of Amazon, which was a mistake. I streamed it on my TV, so it was pretty high res. JD coming back in for the very end of the episode. But when I was looking on Amazon at the options, renting in HD on Amazon is like $4. The Blu-ray, I think think is like $5.86 right now brand new

if you have $5 plunk it down watch it once you guys I've been on the phone for a long time an hour and a half maybe and you guys are still going final thoughts J.D.? we're done I think we've said everything.

We're done. Emily, do you have anything else to say? Anything to plug? Anything to shout out? No, I don't have anything to plug. I would just, I'm much more, I will say as a listener of the podcast, I'm much more into the Wachowski land than I am. Into Shyamalan land. I think we are, too.

And even having, I never had seen Revolutions and I watched it this weekend, hated it, but I still find it more interesting to talk about than Shyamalan. But that's me. I mean, I like these weirdo geeks that are so, so specific

and passionate about what they do. It's always more fun to talk about somebody like that. Yes. Well, thank you for being on the podcast, Emily. It was so great to have you back. People can find you

writing on The Verge. Yeah, I write on The Ver, Emily. It was so great to have you back. People can find you writing on The Verge. Yeah, I write on The Verge sometimes. Anything else you want to plug? I have a podcast called Verge ESP that is up also on The Verge. Great podcast. It's been taken some time off because of many, many external factors, but we are back this week. Or I don't know when this is going out, but we will be back.

This will go out sometime in the middle of May. I can't do dates anymore. Yeah, we're recording a bunch of episodes in advance. Griffin's about to go make the tech. Because I'm going to be a superhero. Yeah. Anyway, by the time you listen to this, I'll probably already be done, but we're having to record this in advance.

JD, the Chris Gethard Show. Before you give your final thoughts on getting your plugs in. Everybody watch the TCGS. Chris Gethard Show, currently on Fusion. We're having the best season we've ever had. I agree with that. It really is terrific and you guys are in a groove.

Wait to see these final episodes. This will be dropping around the time of the finale. So yeah. The finale's gonna be great. Tune in. On Fusion, but also all episodes

available on YouTube. Yeah. And watch Cop Show starring Griffin Newman. Oh, Cop Show's the best. Have you ever seen Cop Show? No, I have not okay

JD I just want to say I echo everything Emily said all of her thoughts have been exactly I've been sitting here

quietly just listening nodding it's because I'm shouting so loudly you can hear it through the door but guys give it a chance

listen here's the thing about filmmakers artists that you like. They don't change. They don't get worse. They just get weirder opportunities and things get messed up in their life.

The Wachowskis are still great. Their brains are still the same brains that were there from the beginning. It's very true. Don't doubt it just because money and politics and the industry gets involved. Maybe they stray from their path, but they're still the geniuses you once loved.

So give it a chance. Give all of them a chance. Watch Speed Racer. Watch whatever weird new thing they come out with next that will be five years ahead of its time that you won't totally love, but then looking back, you'll be like, whoa. That was unlike anything else I saw.

Exactly. I really struggled with saying that sentence. It's hot in here. It's very hot. Give everyone a chance. Give Wachowskis a chance, guys. J.D. Thank you for being here.

Thanks for dropping by. I hope those phone calls went well. They did. I quote your line a lot that you said on this podcast. You say a lot in Life 2 that you believe that all films are about their filmmakers. Yes. And I think, you know, people were thrown off when this film came out because it was so different than The Matrix. But if you really look at it, there's a very clear line between the people who made both of these films.

Oh, yeah. And if you're angry that's not like The Matrix, maybe you need to take another look at The Matrix. Yeah. Sure. And realize what the actual through lines are between these things. Well, thank you both for being here. Yep. Two of our favorite people. Two of our favorite people.

Can we shout out Ben? He's like unwell. Ben is sick with strep throat, so he is in the booth, but he's silent. I didn't realize he had strep. Otherwise, I would have added another two feet of strep. Oh, yeah. We're keeping a wide berth.

He can't be on the mic today. He's quarantined because I can't get sick because I got to wear a suit. Yep. I can't wait to come back to do the episode about Barry Levinson's toys with all of you guys. Oh, man. Yeah. We're mapping that out.

We'll get there. As if that is something that will ever occur. Yeah. Barry Levinson miniseries. We're going to do it, man. His Baltimore trilogy. We're going to dig into Levinson. Toys might be a one-off.

I don't know if the other films are. I'll just be back when you guys get the camera in. His Baltimore trilogy. We're going to dig into Levinson. Toys might be a one. I don't know if the other films are. I'll just be back for when you guys get the camera. Oh yeah. I have specifically requested Titanic many many times.

Oh not Ghost of the Abyss. You want to dive into that abyss with us? But he's a blank check that paid. That's a different one. It's a different set of

issues. A lot of things in the future. Thank you both for being here. Yeah. Thanks to all you out there in listener land for listening. Yep. Thank you, listener land.

Thank you, blankies. Subscribe and rate and review. Emily, who coined blankies. I did coin blankies. I will take credit for that. Totally. Thank you, blankies. Thank you, blankies.

Hosshogs. David Dogs. Griff Heads. I need to pee so bad. David needs to pee. So, as always. And, as always, get well, Ben. A.K. to pee so bad. David needs to pee. So, as always. And as always, get well, Ben.

AKA producer Ben. AKA producer Ben. AKA the Ben-dooser. AKA the poet laureate. AKA the Haas. AKA Mr. Positive. AKA birthday Benny. AKA the tiebreaker.

We are taking out the headphones. AKA the fuckmaster. He is not Professor Crispy. He is Ben Night Shyamalan. He is old Ben Kenobi. He is Kylo Ben. And he told me that he cried at the end of Speed Race. Bye, guys.

Bye. This has been a UCB Comedy Production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.