Blank Check with Griffin & David - Split

Episode Date: January 22, 2017

On the week of it’s release in January of 2017, Griffin and David discussed the new M. Night Shyamalan film: Split. Together they examine James McAvoy’s career, horror troupes, the outstanding cinematography and ruminate on the movie’s HUGE twist.

blank check with griffin and david blank check with griffin and david don't know what to say or to expect all you need to know is that the name of the show is blank check kevin has 23 distinct podcasts the 24th is about to be podcasted. That's right. Hello, everybody. Nice to meet you. My name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims.

This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. We are hashtag the two friends. Two friends. We host a podcast together. That's an important detail. We don't host separate podcasts. No. Two friends, we host a podcast together. That's an important detail. True. We don't host separate podcasts.

No, at one point we did. I suppose that's true, but I mean, that's the past. That's the past. Yeah. Why delve? I mean,

it's a bad way to start a new episode, that's for sure. Probably the worst way to start a new episode. Who are we now? What are we doing? We're doing a miniseries.

We're doing a podcast that's usually comprised of mini-series about directors. We pick directors and we go through their filmographies one film at a time. People who had massive success early on and were granted a series of blank checks by Hollywood to make their own crazy dreams.

Print them onto celluloid and project them into our hearts. Sometimes those checks cleared. Sometimes they bounced, baby. Yep. And we made a promise. We did, and this is the first time we've had to deliver on that promise, right? Yes, yes it is. We made a

promise that any time a director we had previously covered a miniseries, you know, book closed, put it on the shelf, miniseries done. Right. Well, their careers are still going on, and if they came out with a new movie, we would delve back into the shelf. Right. Mini series done. Right. Well, their careers are still going on and if they came out with a new movie,

we would delve back into the pool. Delve into the pool. I'm saying delve a lot this episode. Delve. We dip our toes back into the pool.

Yeah. So, although next week we will be starting our next formal mini series called Pod Me If You Cast. The films of Steven Spielberg. The DreamWorks Gears. Yeah.

We are now going back to our original Blank Check subject. Pod Night Shyamalan. Yes. M. Night Shyamalan himself and his new film Split. Split. We are recording this on January 20th, 2017

aka the last day. Yep. It's a bummer of a day. Probably the worst one. Yeah. Of course. No jokes. No, no, no jokes. Woke up feeling very jittery.

Yep. I've just been sort of, I don't know, very preoccupied the whole day, even though I'm not doing anything with myself. Barely slept last night. And before we beat around the bush, I mean, we're not going to make any jokes, but let's acknowledge what happened today. I left my wallet. It was bad. It was bad. And David and I both mean, we're not going to make any jokes, but let's acknowledge what happened today. I left my wallet at the time. It was bad.

It was bad. And David and I both had a feeling that was going to happen. We were restless at night. We were jittery now. I went to bed too. Also, a Nazi is being sworn in. All right. All right.

You want me to cut that out? No. Put it in. Double it. Really? Yeah. Yeah. That, of course, is double it. Really? Yeah, yeah. That, of course,

is the voice of producer Ben. You know what I'm gonna try to do, actually? What? What are you gonna try? Oh, are you gonna hit the buttons out?

Don't hit the buttons out. Oh, God. You don't want me to? This is a spoiler for three months from now, but we got some producer Ben buttons

of his nicknames, and I'm gonna try in the order of the buttons randomly. Ay, ay, ay. Mr. Positive? Yeah. Not Professor Crispy? Yeah. Nope.

Say Benny thing? Put that there now. Right. Ben Night Shyamalan? Hey, there you go. Yeah. Oh oh i like he wrote ben night like it was like a night like a night of shining armor oh really yeah dirt bike benny producer ben canove purdue or ben this is this is not popping right hello panel you know what yeah that's fine he's got a bunch of names we're done with names we. He's got names. We got buttons. And I'm here, and I saw the movie, too, and hello.

Hi. So this is, yeah, we're talking about Split. That was the worst bit we've ever done. Yeah, that's actually the number one worst bit we've ever done, without fail. I didn't think it was a good idea when you started it, but it was worse than I thought it was going to be. Well, I'll actually cut it out so no one will know what we're talking about. No, keep it in a doublet.

Yeah, keep it in triplet, quadruple. In honor of Kevin, do it in a double it. Yeah, keep it in triple it, quadruple it. In honor of Kevin, do it 24 times. Split. Split. So M. Night Shyamalan, we talked about all his movies last year, and we talked about his final movie,

The Visit, which came out in 2015, but we knew, even at the time, he was working on another movie called Split. Yes. About a guy. Well, at the time we recorded, we had no idea what Split. Yes. About a guy.

Well, at the time we recorded, we had no idea what Split was about. I guess we just knew it was called Split. We knew it starred James McAvoy. And Anna Taylor-Joy. And Anna Taylor-Joy. And I believe we, because you were going through how Promising,

I don't remember if this was on mic or off mic. We knew that it had the cinematographer from It Follows. That was the thing. You were going through what Promising was and you were like, oh, and it's got the... Mike Jekulis. Right, it's got the production designer, True Detective. It had all these people who were just coming off of hot

cool work and Sterling K. Brown, who has now been cut entirely out of the movie. Yeah, I wonder what he was. I heard. I'll tell you when we get to it. Cool. But it was Promising Project. James McAvoy, who I think is one of our kind of

underappreciated actors. I feel like we kind of take him for granted. We take him for granted because he makes a lot of mediocre to bad stuff. Yes. But that doesn't mean

he's not an exceptionally talented actor. He has been for a very long time. Yeah. And I grew up in Britain. I watched him on TV and things like Shameless and State of Play before he hit it big. Now, he played watched him on TV things like Shameless and State of Play

before he hit it big now he played the Emmy Rossum role on Shameless no no he played the Justin Chapman role okay there we go

and he was then he was in you know whatever Last King of Scotland I guess is sort of where he started oh he's in Narnia he's in Narnia

he played Mr. Tumnus he fucking owned that shit he's great in that dog Played Mr. Tumnus. He fucking owned that shit. He's great in that dog shit movie. Mr. Tumnus fucking rules. Mr. Tumnus is great. Yeah, there are two good performances in that movie. There are three good performances in that movie.

The rest of the movie sucks. I assume Tilda's one, and what's the third one? Yeah, Liam Neeson is the voice of Aslan the lion. Nah, I think that's bad. Neeson's good. Neeson phones in those things. Monster calls,

it's the same fucking thing. I haven't seen it. Ugh. Boo. Anyway. Boo. Anyway. More haven't seen it. Ugh. Boo. Anyway. Boo. Anyway. More like a monster.

Sucks. Anyway, James McAvoy, I remember seeing Narnia and going like, who the fuck is this guy? This faun is poppin'. Love this faun. Poppin' off the screen. I knew the faun. I was like, huh, James McAvoy? I know about that guy.

You kidding me? The following year, he plays the lead in Last King of Scotland. Sure, sure. But Forrest Whitaker in a supporting performance, somewhat akin to Hannibal Lecter, just sort of fucking takes over the movie. They're both leads. I mean, James McAvoy's playing the audience surrogate, the person that the movie is. The protagonist. The protagonist.

But obviously, you know, yeah, he is not the most interesting character in that movie. Idi Amin is the most interesting character in that movie. I mean, it's Forrest Whitaker giving the performance of a lifetime in one of the most fascinating human beings who's ever existed. So it just kind of takes over the movie. And I feel like McAvoy's on track because everyone sees that movie, but he's kind of overshadowed within that film, doing really solid work. Yeah, but then the next year, I mean, he clocks out. He's clocking out little British things like The Coming Jane. Starter for 10. Starter for 10. Yeah. But then the next year, I mean, he clocks out, he's clocking out little British things like The Coming Jane. Starter for 10.

But then the next year he's in Atonement. Right. Then the year after that he's in Wanted, which is a big hit. Now that's the big one-two punch, because Atonement, it was like, okay, here we go. Like fucking, what's his name? Joe Wright. Sort of felt like a guy on the up-and-up. Now this is his big play, big book,

and it felt like it was going to be kind of an anointment for him i feel like he gets within shooting range of a best actor nomination he gets a golden globe nod you know he gets he gets some attention and he's good in it i think he's very good in it yeah uh yeah movie doesn't connect as well as they thought it would it's a bunch of oscar nominations though whatever right you know it is it's a well-remembered movie and then wanted is like surprise hit. Yeah. Again, of course, Angelina is kind of like the star in the advertising and maybe the most memorable thing. But she's definitely a supporting character in that. He is quite good in that movie.

He is really going for it. Yeah. Now, that's the thing I want to say about him. It's not a good movie. No, it's not a good movie. That's the thing I really respect about James McAvoy is I don't think I've ever seen him not go for it. And I think he's an actor with tremendous range. He's great.

He's got certain movie star qualities. He's got certain character actor qualities. He's handsome. He's got character actor qualities. He's tough to slot into stuff. Very much so. He's tough. Very much so, because I don't know if there is...

He's got character actor qualities, but he's not a chameleon, right? Yeah. He changes a lot for the role, but he's not someone who totally disappears. You're always aware you're watching James McAvoy. That having been said, I don't know if there is a defining James McAvoy star element. He's a charming little shit. I mean, that's how I would put him. But sometimes he plays on the softer side of that.

And sometimes he plays much harder than that. But I feel like he's always doing good work. Yeah. He is. I mean, obviously, he gets the X-Men role. So he did three of those. I don't think anyone would claim he's the most memorable element of those movies. But he's pretty good.

I will say something interesting, though. Because it's... Does that a lot. Yeah, you're doing David for the listener at home is doing the Professor X Hands on the Temple Hands on the Temple

hard thinking phase. I think he's good at those movies. He certainly doesn't break out of them. Yeah, and apart from that he's made a lot of bad decisions. Yes, well like Victor Frankenstein and fucking

Victor Frankenstein, Trance, Filth Yeah. Gnomeo and Juliet Yeah. Arthur Christmas Yeah. What elseomeo and Juliet. Yeah. Earth or Christmas. Yeah. What else? The Conspirator.

I'll say I've seen most of those that you've listed, not all of them. And I still have yet to see him be bad. I got no beef with him. I like him a lot. But I went to, brag, brag, the premiere of two X-Men ago. I went to the Days of Future Past premiere. And I got to go to the after party and then the after party. Right?

But I was in this room. I spent most of the night in rooms with the entire cast of Days of Future Past, which is like one of the craziest cast of all time. Big cast. And ended up at the New York apartment, a large New York apartment, which is like one of the craziest casts of all time. Big cast, big cast. And ended up at the like, you know, New York apartment, a large New York apartment, but not like a party space. A New York apartment where the after after party

was happening. Uh huh. And rode in an elevator with James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender. And Michael Fassbender, who has always, you know,

for like the last decade been tapped as like, this is the guy, this is the guy, he's got the thing. Yep. An Irishman. Right.

And McAvoy's Scottish I was in the elevator with the two of them and Fassbender was just sort of standing there and I was like good looking guy

good actor whatever but McAvoy was just like the most magnetic he's very lovely and then I was like

in this party with my dad and we kept on walking around and being like that McAvoy guy there's just like something about we didn't talk to him the whole night but in this party with my dad and we kept on walking around and being like that McAvoy guy. There's just like something about we didn't talk to him the whole night. But in this room where like, you know, fucking Jennifer Lawrence and like whoever were all walking around.

McAvoy was the guy who was like shining the brightest. And it was like there's something to this guy. All right. I'm shutting you off. There's some fact. That's the last thing I want to say. OK. OK.

This film was originally announced with Joaquin Phoenix in the lead. That would have been a different movie. Yep. But yes, of course, Joaquin, who worked with M. Night on Signs and The Village. Correct. So they had a history. At one point seemed to be his guy. And, you know, Joaquin these days doesn't make a lot of movies.

He mostly works with very serious auteurs. So it might have been interesting to see him. Because, you know, in my opinion, Joaquin is like a super hammy actor. You think he's a ham sandwich?'s he's the king of ham sandwiches and uh it might be interesting to see him go play a very hammy role sure in a very schlocky movie yes with an old director he knows um uh he didn't do it he drops out late do we know why was he making another movie so i watched an interview with shamalan last night that revealed a lot of the questions I think we're going to have. But one of the things he said was that he wrote this script, delivered it, I think, to Jason Blum at Blumhouse, who also produced The Visit.

Yes, who is Shyamalan's new buddy. Right. And said, like, I want to make this. It's a small budget. It's only $10 million. And the movie was set up, and they were going to start filming in like three months he said it was like 12 or 15 weeks before between when he delivered the script and when they started filming and so at the moment he had the script and he went to walking phoenix walking phoenix was down and then another movie

that walking phoenix was a part of got delayed or pushed up or whatever it was and and so they had a very limited window to find someone, and James McAvoy had previously been unavailable and now was available. Well, you may— Then Joaquin Phoenix's new two features this year coming up. He's making a movie with Lin Ramsey, which is very exciting. Really exciting. You were never really here, based on a Jonathan Ames novella.

Okay. With Alessandro Nivola. Who knows? Who knows of that? But Lin Ramsey's always an novella. Okay. With Alessandro Nivola. Who knows? Who knows of that? But Lin Ramsey's always an exciting director. Yep. And he's making a Mary Magdalene biopic with Garth Davis, the director of Lion. Oh, and Rooney Mara.

Starring Rooney Mara as Mary Magdalene, and he is playing Jesus Christ. Yeah. So here's a fun thing. Jesus Christ. Have you heard that apparently- She would tell Ejiofor, Peter. Have you heard that apparently Rooney Mara and Joaquin Phoenix are dating now? Yeah, I heard that they were hanging out in a colonic clinic or something.

They were both getting their butts evacuated together. After they met playing Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Pretty weird. Yep. Anyhow. So, Joaquin, so long, Joaquin. So long. Here comes-

McAvoy. Strangely charismatic James McAvoy. And let's just get straight into this movie. Okay, so we're going to talk fucking spoilers like crazy. Yeah, we're going to spoil this movie, and I want to be very clear to everyone listening, if you have any interest in seeing Split, go see Split, because the twists are genuinely worth experiencing unspoiled.

Yeah, I would say. I mean, even if you're someone who thinks you like spoilers. You don't. Trust me. Put it this way. If you really are into M. Night Shyamalan's oeuvre, go see this movie without having spoiled. That's all.

I'm wrestling with this movie in a major way, okay? But one thing I can say without any qualification, and I give the movie credit for this, major way. Okay. But one thing I can say without any qualification. And I give the movie credit for this. Is I had no idea where it was going. Same. I was sitting there in the theater and I went this is kind of thrilling. Sure.

That I don't feel like I can call this movie shots. Interesting. And sometimes even I'm watching a movie and I'm going okay either this or this is going to happen. Like it's clear one of two things is going to happen. I was watching it with no sense of a roadmap. The trailers even only really show you stuff from the first 30 minutes. Basically, yeah, very much so.

And just the whole way the film's plotted, it's very... It's unexpected in its construction and its events. Totally agreed. So, seriously, ding, ding, ding. We're're gonna talk about spoilers maybe not like the second after i finish this sentence but just if you want to see the movie go see the movie it's in theaters okay it's a sequel to unbreakable so what the fuck yeah yeah yeah it's a sequel to the film Unbreakable.

Unbreakable. You got that, Benny? Unbreakable. Yeah, I got it. I'm glad we called that back. You have to dig that midi up. Finger. What?

All right. Finger. Let's get back to the movie, all right? Okay. So let's start from the beginning. Let's not talk about the unbreakable stuff until we get to it. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

Sorry. I'm yelling. So, you know, huge asterisk we need to talk about before we dig into the film proper. Because I was certainly watching it through this prism, okay? What prism? There's been a lot of hang-wringing about whether or not this movie is offensive. Yeah, whether or not it is hashtag problematic. Right.

Does it depict mental illness in a good way or a bad way? Right. You might detect a hint of sarcasm or cynicism to my tone here. Right. So here's the quick answer. Bad way. So what?

It's a schlocky genre movie. Anyone who's coming in here thinking this is an accurate portrayal of disassociative identity disorder, I don't know what to tell you. You probably already thought that that's what this was like, right? I mean, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Come on, man. Come on. This is the second in what appears to be a trilogy of M. Night Shyamalan making low-budget horror films about- Low-budget horror films about invented mental illnesses, essentially.

Right. Like he's taking- Like where he's taking some germ of a real mental illness, maybe, but then completely inventing whole cloth symptoms and behaviors that don't exist. Heightening it to some insane degree. Yeah, it's interesting that that might happen. I mean, we used to talk about M. Night Shyamalan claiming he made B-movies, and we'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about?

He's actually making B-movies. But now he is making B-movies. He's making movies for small budgets with Jason Blum, the king of the small-budget horror movie. And, you know, yeah, he is now officially playing in that pool. Like a movie like Signs that costs 80 million bucks and is, you know, a thoughtful meditation on Catholicism. That's not a B movie, my friend.

No, absolutely not. Nor is The Sixth Sense. It's a small ghost story, maybe, but it's not a B movie. And he's dropped his A movie pretensions, which I wholeheartedly admire and respect. I agree. What he hasn't dropped, however, is his sense as a visual storyteller and his next-level grasp of cinema that is often missing from, say, a Blumhouse movie.

No offense to the Blumhouse movies, but a lot of times these things look like disturbed videos, and this doesn't. I mean, at the day that we are recording this, January 20th, America's Death, we have pretty much finished. I mean, we're three movies away, I think, from finishing our Steven Spielberg miniseries. Uh-huh.

We had to bank it up in advance, which is going to be a lot of fun for you folks to listen to because it's wildly out of order. But we had to bank it up in advance before I start filming in the spring so that the show can continue without interruption. Humble break. Humble break. But a thing that we've been talking about a lot is that no one is more effective at using the camera to make you feel

what he wants you to feel than Steven Spielberg. He's good at it. Now, Shyamalan is not... A devotee of Spielberg. Uh-huh. You know, as he would, I'm sure, say. Right. At his best, has similar strengths.

And that's what really put him on the map is like, oh, this guy has a really expressive camera, a really expressive visual sense. He can create these moments of tension better than anyone. He can ratchet it up. And for a while, he was muddying those abilities in pretensions and loftier sort of like, you know. He wasn't giving us a straight shot.

Right. And now he's back to like, I want to make the audience feel shit. Right. And part of that is he's a schlockmeister now and he wants to make them, I think, feel uneasy, not just in terms of tension, but also in terms of the subject matter

that he's playing with. Yeah. I mean, he's playing with fire in this movie. feel uneasy, not just in terms of tension, but also in terms of the subject matter that he's playing with. Yeah. I mean, he's playing with fire in this movie. Now, DID is like this hotly contested issue within psychiatry. The very idea of it is contested. Like, the very idea that it exists is contested. You know, or like how it manifests, or what it means, or whether it's its own disorder

or it's like other disorders sort of collected together or... That's the thing. It's sort of this umbrella and the cases don't really line up with each other. The causes, the reactions. I mean, I'm not going to fucking do WebMD here. But like the point is, it's

a gray area within like the psychiatric community to begin with. And then M. Night is and then m night is taking like m night is taking dr jekyll and mr hyde m night is taking the long-standing gothic slash genre slash fantasy obsession with multiple personalities and you know whatever inflating it you know right i mean but yes he's also doing a movie in which they reference dissociative identity disorder a lot, talk about it as an actual diagnosable condition. In the same way that in The Visit they talk about sundowning

as if it's a real thing that happens in this way. But this movie even more so. In the second lead of the movie, the third lead of the movie is his therapist. And there are a lot of scenes of her on her own trying to figure out his condition. And they use the proper name. To the movie is his therapist. And there are a lot of scenes of her on her own trying to figure out his condition. And they use the proper name. To the movie's credit,

the therapist is in the movie presented as not well-respected by her colleagues. No, everyone questions her. Everyone questions her. She can't get a panel discussion at the conferences about mental health and things like that. Sure. Like, she's basically regarded as sort of like an outside, you know, like sort of like a theoretician at best.

You know, like someone who they ask questions of, but they do not allow to present. And for a psychological condition that is already a bit of a moving target, she's presenting theories that are far outside of the range of where anyone else is shooting and they keep on saying like there's no precedent for that there's no proof of that where's your evidence and she's like dog dog and they're like okay okay uh i was watching this and it does you know like the thing this is closest to is like you know samuel fuller or like brian de palma sure exactly where they're dealing with like really it's like tempest in a teapot like let's fucking rile them up i mean you see a movie like you know, Samuel Fuller or like Brian De Palma. Sure, exactly. Brian De Palma is a good example. Where they're dealing with like,

really, it's like Tempest in a teapot. Like, let's fucking rile them up. I mean, you see a movie like Dressed to Kill. Yes. And, you know, now you watch that movie and you're like, oh, this is horrifyingly offensive. Right. Even at the time, I think people were like,

oh, you know, come on. But he's just borrowing from Hitchcock and people like that who, again, they would take some germ of realism. Right. Like, oh, you know, he's cross-dressing because he's obsessed with his mother. That's why, you know, it's like it's all narrative fiction imposed on like one little bit. You know, like Alfred Hitchcock, Ed Gein, like who would skin people and turns that into Psycho, which has nothing to do with Ed Gein.

But, you know, like they can then say, oh, it's based in real fact. But there's a difference between loosely basing something off of a person and their actions versus basing something off of a condition. Okay, all right. And a psychiatric, like, you know, classification for a type of person. But it's, okay, anyway. No, because I think this is all important to talk about. I mean, we're not going to be able

to talk about the movie without talking about this. Oh. I was sitting there the whole time and thinking, like, how would I respond to this movie if I was watching it and someone was like,

hey, you want to see this crazy movie that was made in 1982? Yeah, sure. You know, if it was like... You were seeing Sisters by Debra or whatever. Right, right. And I'd be like,

this is insane. This is obviously offensive. Right. This movie feels irresponsible. be like, this is insane. This is obviously offensive. Right. This movie feels irresponsible. You could never make this today. You have to view it for what it is, right? But watching it today in 2017, when I feel like as a country,

I mean, the world at large, but also especially our country, which has always been so sort of puritanical, is finally having, like starting to have a progressive productive conversation about mental illness. It made me a little uncomfortable watching this fucking movie. Okay. It made me uncomfortable just because they keep on using the real name of a real disorder,

and it's not like that's a disorder. They use the real name. They're not just saying, like, this guy has 24 personalities. They're going, did did did did okay all right which it's like well it's not like there are other positive representations of did in the media there was three seasons of united states of tara there was and this right yeah like that's it so you just imagine like you know oh also multiplicity and multiplicity right that was a cloning my friends oh okay, okay. Not the same.

Not the same. I kept on watching this movie, and because he plays so fast and loose with what this guy is. Yeah, this is science fiction. This film is science fiction. I kept on, and because the doctor is portrayed as. I mean that literally. It is science fiction. Yes, it is.

It takes bits of science and, yeah, makes a fantasy about it. Because the doctor is portrayed as being kind of a quack. Yeah. I mean, I think it was my brother. Was I telling you about this? Put it in the classic genre of all horror movies where it's like you meet the doctor or the expert and they're smoking a pipe. And they're like, yes, no, it's very interesting, his condition. I've decided to do nothing about it and see what happens.

You know, that's sort of like, yes, yes, yes. Well, you know, the interesting thing about him is he may go mad, but I'm waiting and seeing on this one. And then six scenes later, there's a knife in their back or whatever. Good joke. Five comedy points for Joey. It's definitely in that tradition because she sort of seems unreliable because everyone around her in the community is saying, like, this is impossible. Right, right, right.

I was waiting for the movie, knowing it's Shyamalan. You thought the movie was going to then double back around and be like, yeah, like, that's not what this is. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yes, I thought the movie was going to reveal itself to be about a misdiagnosis. Yeah, well, here's where, so basically,

I'm being a bit of a snark right now, but I was with you in a lot of ways. And I'll say I was hoping for that. Like, I wanted that. I didn't really care. But I mean, I was more just sort of thinking like, this is classic Shyamalan.

And I remind you again, like Psycho literally ends with a psychiatrist delivering like a monologue about like what happened. And this movie is like an... that monologue stretched out to two. Right. They kind of just parceled that out through the movie. But, of course, what the movie is really doing is it's world building.

It's like establishing the weird parameters of this guy. It's like he's got 23 personalities. One is dominant, and a couple are very bad, and they've sort of been exiled. There's this idea of holding the light. People, one personality at a time, but they're all conferencing with each other. This is all, right?

All this info is being parceled out. Yeah. And then at the end of the movie, we realize his 24th personality is just animals. Is every animal and one at the same time? Okay. Okay. And I'm just going to skip right ahead.

We can talk about the movie, but I'm going to skip right ahead to the end because that's what this conversation we're having is about. Sure, because it totally recontextualizes the whole movie. This is what I'm getting to. Okay, so the first twist, which involves Anya Taylor-Joy's character

and the fact that she's suffered abuse and is in her own way mentally ill. You don't want to go through the movie and get to this? No, I'm getting this now and then we'll get to that. Okay. No, but you're talking about the problematic elements of this movie and this is where it is problematic. I agree. In my opinion, it's not the DID stuff. It's that part.

I think both are problematic. Sure, fine. But that's where I was like, you know, I had been warned by people who'd seen the movie already, like, ah, there is this one twist at the end that is kind of offensive. And I was like, about the multiple personalities, and they were like, no. And I was like, oh.

He's bringing other stuff. Right, I see this, and I believe I put it on Twitter. It's a little too much paprika in the sandwich to reference the movie Split, in which he puts a lot of paprika in the sandwich. Sure, that'll add it on Twitter. It's a little too much paprika in the sandwich to reference the movie Split, in which he puts a lot of paprika in the sandwich. Sure, that all added. Exactly. You're like, classic Shyamalan.

He's gone a little too far. He's tying it up too neatly. This doesn't totally track for me. The thing where the beast is like, ah, you're like me. We're the real ones. And you're like, okay. And You know, we're the real ones. And, ah, you know, and you're like, okay. And then comes the twist we discussed. Right.

This is a sequel to Unbreakable. And this is a comic book and he's a comic book villain. Right. And then I'm like, I love this movie. And I'm walking out and saying, this is the best. And I'm so happy. Because that's a fucking comic book villain. Correct.

That's what that is. Correct. Where it's like they have weird rules, and they have some bizarre unitary goal, and his rules are as dumb as any other comic book villain rules. He's like Ultron or whatever. It's a fucking hilarious comic book villain. Right, and most comic book villains are mentally ill. Yes.

Indeed. In actual diagnosis. Often they do have one, especially these days. Yeah. I mean, very often they're either a doctor who went mad or a patient who got powerful. There's a lot of people who are quote unquote mad in comic books. And now it's like they're whatever, you know, they're mentally ill. Back in the day

it was more just like he's mad he's a mad scientist he's a mad professor whatever right and so then i'm like oh okay okay okay and i bought in i guess is the way to put it i mean it left me with a lot more questions let's go through the part of the film and we'll get to all right okay okay great movie yeah forgetting this this stuff, I just mean like the movie in general as it goes along, especially those opening scenes and, you know, whatever. I mean, I walked out of the movie. Ben and I talked about it for like 45 minutes. I had a really hard time like untangling it.

Ben, I think, is it fair to say I was kind of manic after the movie ended? Yeah, you were extremely manic too. You made me stay with you in the theater for a while. Yeah, I couldn't move. I was uncomfortable. I was just trying to untangle everything I had watched. Meanwhile, there's the movie theater employees cleaning up around us.

Oh, you didn't even leave the theater. No. Wow. And then once we left, I was like, I could get on the train right here on the corner. I could walk for another 20 blocks. And we walked for 20 blocks to like two stations away just talking about it. And then I went, I saw John Trowbridge, past guest of the show.

Past guest, friend of the show. Yes. From the Den of Invasion episode, who listens to the podcast and knows how versed we are in Shyamalan. Right. I had gotten, a couple people had tweeted us being like who had seen it being like very excited for you guys to see this yes so uh i i was supposed to do his stand-up show last night and then the show ended early and i ran late because of post-split talk it was a perfect storm of the two things so i got there after the show had ended and i'm just talking to him for a little bit. And he was like, you went to see a movie tonight, right? What are you seeing?

I was like, I saw the new Shyamalan. He was like, oh, man. I can't wait to hear what you think. And I was like, I actually don't know. Like, I can't remember the last time I was this uncertain how I felt about a movie. That's so interesting because for me, it's the first time for sure that I have seen a Shyamalan movie where the twist sold me on the movie. Like without a doubt,

that's the first time that's ever happened. There's no Shyamalan twist that ever sold me on the movie before. Sure. The only like Shyamalan twist I really love apart from this one is the six cents. And that doesn't like, I'm already into the movie you know the twist is it does

but it's not like where I was kind of like I'm not sure how I feel about this and then I see the twist and I'm like oh it makes sense great you know like and also yeah like The Sixth Sense is already like a three three and a half star movie even if you cut the twist ending if it just ends with he's helped the boy the boy's happy now

you know yeah if Sixth Sense ends with the scene helped the boy, the boy's happy now. You know? Yeah. If Sixth Sense ends with the scene in the car with Tony Collette, that movie's still great. You're like, good, that was an interesting little ghost story about a boy who could talk to ghosts. Right. Question though, this movie, I don't feel like it's like

Sixth Sense in that you need to re-watch it and have a new perspective on it necessarily. No, because the twist is more thematic than it is about the plot that you've been watching. Right. Although I think if you re-watched it, you would notice little things like he talks about how many teeth tigers have and things like that. Yeah. Little clues about where they are and what his past is.

Yes. And Sixth Sense is a magic trick movie, so then part of... Part of re-watching Sixth Sense is just watching the magic trick. It's the artistry. It's just seeing how they pulled it over on you. You can now see the lines, the blocking tape on the stage,

but you're kind of amazed that it all worked. It's the montage where they explain how the heist happened after the fact, and so that's the thrill of watching Sixth Sense is this high wire act and being like, oh man, he didn't fuck it up. It actually all tracks. This movie, I certainly feel the need to see a second time just to reconcile with what the fuck it is.

But, okay, let's just try to fucking go through this thing. Sure. So, Split begins with three kids played by Anya Taylor-Joy as Casey. Haley Lou Richardson, who was great in The Edge of 17 last year, as Claire. And I believe I've already said should be cast as siblings with Zoe Deutsch in a movie. The two of them look similar. Okay. Someone write something. I don't know. White Girl's

the movie. Jessica Sula as Marsha. Who's from Skins. She was in a late season of the British Skins. Third generation of Skins. Yeah, like season seven of Skins. Right. I didn't last that long. Me neither. And the idea is that

Marsha and Claire are the cool kids. Correct. Claire had like a birthday party and they had to invite Casey because like... You want to invite everybody. Exactly. Neil Huff the dad is saying like, I thought you said you wanted to invite everybody. But Casey's like... Good actor. Love you Neil Huff the dad is saying like, I thought you said you wanted to invite everybody. But Casey's like, Good actor.

Love Neil Huff. Love Neil Huff. Don't love Showtime's Huff. Me neither. Starring Hank Azaria from like 2003. And the late great Anton Yelkin. Thanks for bringing me down. Who thought he'd be the first one to die from the cast of Huff?

This is terrible. You're saying you bet on Platt instead? I'm trying to think of who else is in Huff. But anyway. Flight Banner. Oliver Platt.? I'm trying to think of who else is in Huff. But anyway. Flight Banner. Oliver Platt. Hatcher Brewster. Hatcher Brewster.

Hank Azaria. And the late great Antonia. Anyway. RIP Antonia Elkin. You're great. Not on Huff, but that wasn't your fault. It was bad material. Sure.

KC is the weird kid. They obviously, they think she's weird. But the dad's like, look. Fucking deal with it. And that's the opening of the movie is watching her isolated, looking out a window on her cell phone like a fucking Hitchcock Dolly Zoom. Sure. And over that, you're hearing the two kids talk about how weird she is.

Oh, my God, she's so weird. Why does she behave this way? And, of course, again, if you rewatch the movie, you'd pick up on this more. The idea is she's not one of the people that James McAvoy was watching. And, of course, again, if you rewatch the movie, you'd pick up on this more. The idea is she's not one of the people that James McAvoy was watching. He wanted the two girls. He didn't want Anya Taylor-Joy. He didn't know about her.

She's not interesting to him. No. So she's kind of a spare, you know. Correct. You get what I'm saying? Because he keeps talking about, like, he wants. Yes, I do. I mean, yes, these are all massive questions I had that I was going through

a psychological tailspin with Ben last night. So they get in the car in a, I would say, incredibly effective creepy scene. I think probably the best piece of filmmaking in this movie. It's so good.

And I was watching it and I sort of, like, Ben turned to me and he went like, wow, right into it. And to me, this is a movie Shyamalan is making, like, you know,

this is definitely like an It Follows, which this movie has the same cinematographer as. And there's that one very similar shot that comes at the beginning of the sequence where it's the two girls and the dad packing stuff into the car. Let's just set up her relative has not come to pick her up from the birthday party. Yeah, sure, whatever. So they go like, let's give you a ride home. They don't really want to do it.

But now it's like, okay, the three of them are going to go in the car with the dad and they're going to drop her up from the birthday party. So they go like, let's give you a ride home. They don't really want to do it. But now it's like, okay the three of them are going to go in the car with the dad and they're going to drop her off at home. And that's the basic setup for how things go wrong. Instead McAvoy gets in the car and chloroforms them with a spray. And they do the it follows shots where the camera is functioning as McAvoy

slowly moving towards them as they're packing the car, and you get the unease of like, oh shit, this isn't me watching, this is a viewer, this is me feeling a force coming towards them. Yes, right. I'm in the mind of the person. Very effective. Of the villain, whatever. Right.

But this is a movie like It Follows, like lots of horror movies, about the gossamer thin veneer of safety that comes with like a nice landed suburban middle-class life sure like these girls when mcavoy gets in the car don't even react with horror they're like excuse me or you're in the wrong car they act like he's a dork they're like uh you fucking idiot. This isn't your car. An objectively odd-looking bald guy just gets in their car with total ease.

But strangely magnetic. If you were stuck in an elevator with him after the premiere of Days of Future Past, you'd be like, something about this guy is just kind of popping.

Absolutely. And your dad would agree. And he reinforces this throughout the movie by the fact that Claire and Marsha are barely wearing any clothes, whereas Annie Taylor-Joy's character is bundled up with layer upon layer and things like that.

And this is all in service of the hashtag problematic point that he is making. Yes. But I do like that more classic, like, know, these fucking kids, you know, they're idiots. They don't know anything. Like the classic slasher horror genre thing of like, you know, the suburbs, they're so safe. Like, and thus like so unsafe, like so easy to disturb.

Yeah. I just love the fucking, the like fucking like cinematic like reps he's doing in this scene like he's just like at the gym fucking showing off i mean the the shot of anya taylor joy like the way she reacts and how different it is yeah and how he lingers on it and slows it all the way down so you can really start to wonder like what is going on in her brain that she reacts this way to this? Right. And it's also, you know, when you're watching the conversations between James McAvoy and the two girls in the back, it's kind of third person. But when James McAvoy and Anya Taylor-Joy are locked in any sort of way,

it's kind of first person POV camera. You know, it looks like you're looking at them, they're looking at you. She's got a great face for that stuff. She's a good fucking actor. She's extremely good. I mean, she was in The Witch last year, which she's terrific in. She was in Morgan, which I did not see. But it was another creepy girl

movie. But I certainly had this feeling. She was in Barry, which she's lovely in. Oh, really? Yeah, she's Barack Obama's girlfriend. Michelle Obama? Not that one. His white girlfriend from uh, yeah, no, she didn't play Michelle Obama. Thank God. No, because it's set in Columbia. It's like when he was in college.

You know, Barry? Yeah, no, I know. I haven't seen it. I know you liked it, right? Yeah, I liked it. You know, three stars. Yeah. It's decent.

There's things that are in it. Okay, so it's more of a Hotel Transylvania 2 than Hotel Transylvania 1. Okay. Bingo. You nailed it. Bingo, bingo. Right, so three stars is not a five-star masterpiece. It's a Hotel Transylvania 2 than Hotel Transylvania 1. Okay. Bingo. You nailed it. Bingo, bingo. Right, so three stars is not a five-star masterpiece. Hotel Transylvania 2.

Okay. I saw The Witch. I thought she was very good in it. The Vitch. The Vitch, but also that movie is so stylized. Of course. So, yeah, you don't know. She's an unknown actress.

It was one of those things where it's like, this might be a great director who cast someone perfectly and got a good performance out of that. Exactly, got the good face, got the good look, got the right person. So much of it is her face, her look, the presence. She's really good at reacting to shit. Yeah, you never know, but I think she's proving herself a very arresting... I watched her in this and I was like,

she's got the goods. She knows what she's doing. She's a really fucking good actress. And this is a tough part. A tough, tough part a tough tough part I would argue almost an unfair part to give to anybody

hey man she does a good job and she handles it really well but this opening is great I mean you see

even just the fucking camera moves in this I mean there's the great thing where she's sitting shotgun and the camera

keeps on kind of bananning around the car so you see the body of someone closing the trunk, walking to the door, walking back. We, the audience, know something is up.

But we don't hear a noise. We don't hear the, because as we quickly learned, the dad just gets chloroformed too. So there's no like violent structure. But you don't see anything. You don't see anything, you just hear the thing close. This is like immediately Shyamalan showing. This is a movie with no jumps, none at all.

No, I'd say one. Maybe one sort of mile. I think there's one in the last ten minutes of the movie. But I mean, you know, like this is a movie where I would, and this is what I'm talking about when I say Blumhouse, and their ilk, all the horror movies. It would be all jumps, you know, it would be like, you know, Pan, and then woo, you know, like

he's in the seat next to you, I don't know. Or like the music box really, really slowly until it stops, and then you know like he's in the seat next to you i don't know like or like the music box really really slowly until it stops and then which is like that is what i mean i i don't know who gives a shit it's such a cheap boring trick yeah and like i guess audiences kind of like it because you go to see one of those movies and the audiences are you know jumping and laughing and like it's like kind of like it because you go to see one of those movies and the audiences are you know jumping and laughing and like it's like a roller coaster or whatever but like you get so

inured to it it gets so like here we go you know even when you watch a trailer for one of these movies you're like alright in like 20 seconds it's gonna do exactly what you just said or someone's gonna be looking in a mirror or they'll be like looking at a picture like an old picture.

And they're like, what is this? And suddenly like the monster. Turn the volume down on this, Benny. Guys, don't scream directly in the microphone. He's the one doing it. Anyway. Damn it. No one's going to enjoy that.

No, it's a terrible podcast. Seriously, Ben, you can tone those all the way down. Yeah, and also delete everything we're starting over. I was looking at just the fucking car sequence, right? And it's like there are two shots that are amongst the scariest things that happen in this movie. The slow track into the back of the car from McAvoy's perspective,

and that weird bananaying from Anna Taylor-Joy's side where she's not seeing what's going on. And both of those cases, nothing scary is happening on screen, but he's creating dread just in how he moves the fucking camera. Great. Nothing, I mean, a lot of people can put a scary image on screen, but he's creating dread just in how he moves the fucking camera. Yes. Great. Nothing, I mean,

a lot of people can put a scary image on screen. That's what I'm saying. This is next level. And some people can put a scary image on screen and shoot it in a scary way. Right. Very few people can shoot nothing and make it scary. Jason Blum. Academy Award nominee, Jason Blum.

For Whiplash? So, he kidnaps them. It kind of happens in slow motion. She sees them get chloroformed. The Anya Taylor-Joy reaction happens. He chloroforms them, and then you cut to slow motion, I think, of her where she's like, what do I do? What do I do?

What do I do? And then she finally tries to open the door really, really slowly. And that's disrupted by the beep, beep, beep then that yeah because the car engine's on right and then and then he he looks at her and again you're like you're like it's a shaman movie you're hunting for the twist right so you're like why isn't he gassing her right away something weird's going on yeah you know like are they in cahoots does she know him him somehow? Like, you know, what's this going to be? And her reaction is so odd. It's so peculiar. It's hard to even describe.

She certainly looks scared, but not. Right. It's whatever. Yeah. It's like there's a practice quality to it, I guess. Like, it looks like she's been here before. Yeah. And it's just you assume he gasses the two of them in such quick succession he's going to move over to her.

But then when he doesn't, you're like, does he not even notice that she's there? Yeah, right. What is this? When they lock eyes, it takes a while for him to act. Yeah. Even when she opens the door and he sees she's trying to get away. He doesn't react with violence, per se. He just reacts again with this.

He puts his mask on and he... Right. So then they wake up. They're in a cellar with a bathroom. Right. It's very 10 Cloverfield Lane. I was going to say. Although, I love the way

that he shoots them on these two beds. He's got Anya Taylor-Joy on one and the other two girls on the other. There's this wooden beam on the wall between them, like in case we didn't get... It almost looks like they're in different rooms. Sure.

And there's like an invisible wall splitting them. There's a split between them. Yeah, split, split, split, hashtag split. I almost screamed at the mic, but then I decided that wouldn't be funny. There we go. Much better. And now the movie is still scary, obviously,

but it is shifting into what a lot of these movies have to do, which is like now for the rules, right? Like now for the rules of the movie, the rules of the movie the rules of the world right and as we've all seen the trailer as we know he's gonna come in

he's Dennis he's got glasses he's got this sort of like tightly buttoned shirt he's a neat freak he has this kind of deep voice yeah

OCD right and he's like and then he comes in and he's is it Patricia they hear through the keyhole hear him talking to a woman right and they're like this one can help us and she's like, oh, come on. And then he comes in and he's, is it Patricia? They hear through the keyhole. Hear him talking to a woman, right.

And they're like, okay, this one can help us. And she's like, this isn't good. You must do this or whatever. And they're like, okay, here we go, here we go. Opens the door. It's him in like a red turtleneck. And Shyamalan fucking waits a while before he cuts to see him. Right.

Like we hear the voice, we see the door opening, and then we see the reactions of the two of them as he starts speaking. It's just good fucking filmmaking. It's fun stuff. Before you see wait what's going on here? He's a lady. Was he talking to himself? Right. Yeah and she's Patricia is like

you know don't worry you won't be hurt everything's fine. She's like the school mom. He knows not to touch you. Yes. She's tough but fair. Great facial gestures for the characterization. McAvoy is doing an extremely good job. Yeah, he's so good.

You're saying Anya Taylor-Joy is a hard role? He's got the most... That's a tough fucking role. For all my misgivings with this movie, right? Like, all my hurdles, I'm still trying to clear in my enjoyment of this film. Or, if I can enjoy it,

that performance fucking works. And the movie falls apart if you don't have someone that committed going for it that hard. Yeah. And that able to create such fully realized personalities. But not without self-awareness, not without humor.

He knows what movie he's in. Exactly. It's a very funny performance. It is. It's also equally terrifying. It is. It's very, very good. And it doesn't do any of the tricks I was afraid it would do, which is essentially when

he's like, no, I'm a nice lady. And then someone's like, but, and then he like switches and he's like, I'm the crazy one now. You know, like he doesn't do any of that. Right. It's much more as you learn, like it's much more of a rigorous thing. His personalities and how they move. He's kind of in one when he's in one. Right.

And it's like a process for another one to take the light. Correct. So this is talking about rules that this movie sets up. One of the things you hear early on is, okay, who has the light? I have the light now. Yeah. So it's sort of clear that this internal battle being waged within him. Right.

Because pretty early on you also meet Hedwig, who's the little boy. Right. Right. And he's the one who's talking a lot about the light. He's the one who's more talking about the rules of the personalities. You're stifling a yawn here. Yeah, I didn't sleep. I'm sorry.

That's fine. And one thing Claire, the Hayley Richardson character, keeps saying is, this is unacceptable. We have to fight back. And ask Annie Taylor Joy to help them. We've got to rush this guy. But I was saying like why aren't

you freaking out right now yeah and she's just she Aunt Taylor Joy is more in this sort of locked in

where she's like we shouldn't do anything that doesn't make any sense we'll do something when it makes sense like right now he's not hurting us

let's just let's just so these are things I wanted to say because after the movie last night I couldn't tell if I was overthinking

this stuff or because they I mean he sets up these breadcrumb moments the first girl wanted to decipher. Because after the movie last night, I couldn't tell if I was overthinking this stuff. Oh. Or, because they, I mean, he sets up these breadcrumb moments. The first girl, what's her name? Kula? Oh, Jessica Sula. Jessica Sula, sorry.

Jessica Sula is the first girl who gets sort of taken out of the room. He grabs her, pulls her out. But right before he does. And we hear her like screaming. Right before he does, Honey Taylor Joyce says, pee yourself. Yeah. And then she goes out into the room, they hear

the screaming, and surprisingly quickly the door's open and she's thrown back in. And he's like, ahhh! Yeah. And she's now peed herself. And she says he just wanted to dance with me. He wanted me to take off my clothes and dance. Yeah. So you're like, all of this is weird. Sure. That's weird that Anya Taylor-Joy was that quick

with a solution you know here's how you save yourself some time not save yourself some time earn yourself some time and then there's the thing that Haley Lou Richardson says to her where she says like

oh no don't do this not now this isn't the time to do that which is in response to her sort of sitting calmly in the room going off into her own world. Yes. Yeah. That's what she's talking about? Yes, 100%.

She's talking about the behavior that they were remarking on in the first scene with them. At the birthday party when she's off and around. Yeah, exactly. This girl is a fucking alien. She's like a Martian. She doesn't interact. Right.

She's angry that she's not reacting with the... Right, that she's locking down essentially in the same way that she seems to do all the time. And then she says that thing of when I hear something that makes sense, I'll tell you. But they seem to defer to her on that. Well, because she... I don't know if it's anything more than when

someone is the calmest in a crisis situation, they sort of immediately attract your attention. Because they're throwing stupid plans out at her, and she's explaining why they won't work. And she's very reasoned. Right. She's not just being like a fucking naysayer. She's not like, hey, shut up. Fuck you guys.

Yeah, no. She's like, no, but you're not thinking about this. This is going to happen. Right. And also, she just gets like, this guy is physically stronger than he looks. He can overpower us, essentially. We can't just overpower him. Right.

Right. Yeah, that's the big thing she saw is I saw him carry your body in here. This is nothing to him. This guy, we're not going to be able to physically fight. Right. And she also gets that he's OCD because he's weird. He's weird about the bathroom. Sure.

He's giving him all these rules about cleanliness. Right. The blue bottle, the pink bottle, this is for ceramics, this is for tiles. I think the first Betty Buckley scene happens pretty quickly. Me and Joey, I saw this with my brother, and I think we thought

Betty Buckley was going to have maybe a happening style role, where it's like one big chunk where finally you meet Betty Buckley and she's like, well, here's the deal with him, and she explains. No, Betty Buckley is you know, she has, there are two storylines and she's, one of them is just about her. Yeah, I'd say this movie has three lead characters

and she is one of them. Betty Buckley, who's in The Happening but she's in lots of horror movies. She plays the crazy lady who shoots Spencer Breslin in the face in The Happening. Poor Breslin, I forgot that he gets it in the face. He gets it in the face. And she is Kevin's psychiatrist. Kevin Allen Crum?

Wendell. Kevin Wendell Crum, although his name is not revealed until right at the end. Sure. And Kevin is the body, I guess, that houses all these personalities. Yes. And she knows about this, and she's, she knows about this and she's, I guess,

whatever, she sort of helps maintain normalcy for him, right? Like, she's developed the system

where one of the personalities is kind of in charge, he goes to work, he's like, relatively normal, like, you know,

he doesn't get in trouble anymore, whatever. He's super into fashion. Yeah, it's the, it's the, the swishy,

Brooklyn-y kind of... I'd say he wasn't swishy. I'd say, to Shyamalan's credit, he's played as kind of a blue-collar fashion bro. Sure, but he's extroverted, I guess she says. I don't know, he's got sort of a lilting voice. I mean, come on. My favorite personality. Yeah, I was going to say.

I mean, he's like Ben. He's getting into fashion. But, of course, what's interesting about it is we quickly realize that's an impersonation of that character. Right, right. And perhaps it's a little too on the nose. We do see that character for real briefly at the end. But go on. Betty Buckley gets this email from.

From him. Right. Saying, I need to see you. But it's from. The email's written from Barry S. I believe so, yeah. Which is the name of the fashion guy? Which is the name of the fashion guy, yeah.

Okay, he's the main one who emails her. Yeah. And then he shows up. He shows up and he's like, I'm sorry, you know, it's no big deal. Like, I was just a little scared, but I'm fine now. She's like, really? She's like, this is weird.

Email made it time sensitive. What's going on? What's going on? What's going on? And like, you know, just like what she's realizing eventually is that while Dennis, who she's only heard about, but never met,

like one of the bad personalities is taking control when he's asleep, quote unquote, or whatever. The other personalities can like seize control of the body briefly and send a frantic email before they're like kicked out again. And so that's what's happening. And Dennis is trying to just smooth it over by showing up every day at her

office and being like, no, no. Nothing to worry about. I just got a little anxious. This movie treats this associative identity disorder like it's the Eddie Murphy movie Meat Date. No. It treats it like being John Malkovich. It's like they're wrestling for control of one body. It's like they're all housed, but they're all fighting for control of one body. Like, you know, it's like they're all housed,

but they're all fighting for control of one body. That's why I said a Murphy movie, Meat Dave. I haven't seen Meat Dave. The plot of Meat Dave. I thought Meat Dave was more like Herman's Head or whatever. No. It's like, oh, okay, okay. No, the original title of Meat Dave was Spaceship Dave.

I remember that. Because it is about. Wasn't it Starship Dave? Yes, correct. Yes, I'm sorry. I remember that. It is about. Wasn't it Starship Day?

Yes, correct. Yes, I'm sorry. It is about a tiny alien race who all decide to live in a human-sized robot that looks like Eddie Murphy. So he's got a full staff inside of him that are, like, pulling the levers. Right, right, right. I thought it was, like, Herman's head. Like, one person does the mouth. One person does the eyes.

I don't know. No, because it's like they're at a control center. Yeah, right. Isn't that what Herman's head is? Herman's head is like inside out. Yeah, Herman's head is like inside out. Right, yeah. But it's not his feelings.

They're like, he's not a real person. He's like a vehicle. All right. In Starship Day. Well, I'm a bit of a vehicle, if you think about it. Okay, well, whatever. The point is, it's like different people wrestling control the steering wheel. Why did they think Meet Dave was going to be a more marketable title than Starship? Yeah, you know what title works?

Starship Dave. It explains what it is. Works better than Meet Dave. Here's Dave. He is himself a starship. Meet Dave. Okay, nice to meet you. Who else is at this party?

Dave doesn't seem that interesting to me. A thousand words. Yeah, this was his Brian Robbins trilogy. Yeah. He did three. He did Meet Dave, Norbit, A Thousand Words. Norbit's a fascinating movie. And then he retired from movies. Well, no, because he made Mr. Church though. Yeah. Mr. Church though.

Mr. Church though. Mr. Church though. Wado though. Wado though. I saw that you pinned the Wado tweet. Yeah. The original one. Wado fever. Yeah, so please feel free to go to twitter.com backslash grifflightning and fave that pinned Watto tweet. Did you know that Mr. Church begins with an opening title that says

inspired by a true friendship? Oh, fuck you. Oh, fuck. Are you kidding me? I am not kidding. Oh! Oh! Oh! Have you seen Mr. Church?

No. You just heard that? I just knew that, yeah. Oh! I mean, it's not something you forget. Do you know how badly I want Eddie Murphy to have a comeback? And then to see him do shit like that. I don't think Eddie Murphy could have a comeback.

He wants to make a movie based on a true friendship what if someone made a movie about our podcast they could say it was based on a true friendship no they'd say it's based on a two friendship hashtag two friends congratulations i said i set it up you knocked it out hashtag two friends space hip all right split unbreakable Friends, space, hip. All right. Split. Unbreakable. Unbreakable.

So, this movie's like broken me. Well, so yeah. So then we're learning the rules in both storylines. In Betty Buckley's, we're seeing how he functions and how he's sort of like whatever. How they created a life for him together. And in the basement storyline, we're seeing how obviously it's come apart. And how the little boy, Hedwig, made some alliance with the more villainous personalities. Right. Dennis and Patricia,

who takes control. You reminded me of the thing I wanted to say. Sure. I wanted to talk about it. He's playing real fast and loose with this kind of thing, right? Real fast and loose. Okay. By not, well, I'm not going to get into that yet.

I will build up to that. But this is the more immediate thing I want to say. He is treating it like, by all accounts, in a hotly contested condition, the very nature of disassociative identity disorder, which is an extension of disassociation as a psychological condition, coping through trauma, is that people create alternate personalities specifically to help them work through certain things. That address these things, yeah.

Right? And they are triggered by, you know, whatever instances of... Right. Well, this is not a movie where people are triggered. He's triggered, but yes. But, but, in a way, yes. I mean, they talk a lot about this is entirely a byproduct of his upbringing.

Well, they talk about that with, yes, and especially with Dennis. Dennis is a reaction to his mother's, like, obsessive cleanliness. She would, like, hit the kid or whatever. She was a physically abusive mother. If things were out of place or whatever. So, like, that's what Dennis is, I guess. Right. His father left him and his mother beat him.

Right. Whether or not he had a chemical imbalance to begin with who knows but certainly these uh personalities were created as a coping mechanism sure in response to the well at least that one was we know there's 20 fucking three personalities we don't mean them all she kind no we don't uh she kind of i forget the exact line but she seems to imply like she's at one point like I understand why this personality exists you need him to deal with that well right but what she's trying to do in those scenes is appeal to Dennis's

ego like because she's trying to get Dennis to admit yes this is me it's not Barry right and she says you know I understand because of your childhood you need someone like Dennis yeah I once again, watch this interview with M. Night Shyamalan where he said that he and

McAvoy worked on understanding, even if the film doesn't explain it. Right. What all the personalities reflect. Right. And what, what they are response to. Okay.

I'm sure that's true. But at the same time, I wonder if they put equal thought into everyone. No, no. I mean, like there are a couple you see in the video diaries at the end that are like, okay, that's true, but at the same time, I wonder if they put equal thought into every one. No, no. I mean, there are a couple you see in the video diaries at the end that are like, okay, that's like an improv scene where you're playing Ding, and it's like you have to come up with another one, you have to come up with another one. Exactly, yeah.

Which we will reflect at the end of this episode in a very special surprise for all of you. But the reason I bring up the fucking meet Dave analogy is that this movie treats it like rather than just being like sides of him that come out, you know, personas that come out response to things that it's literally like someone being like, hey, do you mind if I get the wheel for like a second? And then one of the personalities just literally goes to sleep inside his head. It's like they're all in an apartment and they go to sleep and the other one wakes up. It's like science fiction. This is science fiction. It is right. It has like they're all in an apartment and they go to sleep and the other one wakes up. That's what I'm saying. It's like science fiction. This is science fiction. It is, right. It has its own weird logic

and rules. But then we have a therapist who is constantly applying everything he's saying to real psychiatric studies. Okay, you've made your point on that case. I mean, right?

I mean, is there more to say? Yes, they use the real name of a disorder. A very hotly debated disorder. But keep, I mean... Some people don't think it even exists. I should point out. Some disorder. A very hotly debated disorder. But, but, keep, I mean. Some people don't think it even exists. I should point out. Some people.

A lot. A lot of psychiatrists, I think, are very, they don't think it's like, it's really a disorder as more as it's like sort of variations on other disorders. Some people think it's symptomatic. Right. People. Some people think it's therapist created. Sure.

Sure. Some people think, like through act outs and like in therapy sessions in the same way people sort of some people are very suspicious of like regression therapy and hypnotic you know recalling of buried memories things like that I don't subscribe to that like I'm not a truther

who believes it doesn't exist I do believe it's something that exists in a very nebulous form and may be in fact a lassoing of several different things together. It's not a bunch of people live in one memory palace. And literally go like, okay, I have four to 630, then you're going to take. But in this movie, this comic book movie, that's how it works. So I'm watching it and I'm going, she's set up as kind of an unreliable narrator.

For sure. There's a weird scene of her with her, not that she's the narrator, but you know what I'm saying, as an unreliable psychiatrist. Because she's the one who's giving us the medical back. Well, she's the one, I mean, it's like any of these, like a lot of genre movies, she's like the scientist who's like, no, no, no. It all makes sense. Don't worry. I've created safeguards. Like, I know exactly how this works. and nothing's going to, I promise you, like, nothing's going to go wrong, you know?

Sure. She's in the nuclear power plant being like, it's not the China syndrome. Don't worry. It's just a faulty little tap here. Like, it's fine. I'm going to fix it, you know? Right. Yeah.

You know, because she's so resolute in her belief that, like, it's gonna be okay, and she gets how to deal with this guy, that she goes into his death basement with him, and only, like, halfway through realizes, like, I may not have total control of this situation. Right. Which made me think

while watching it, well, she's clearly wrong. The arc they're setting up here clearly is that she's wrong, and not is that she's wrong, and not just that she's wrong and that she trusts him too much and it's going to lead to her death, but that she's wrong in the sense that she's totally, you know, misdiagnosed who he is and what he is, which is where in the sort of comic book-y tradition

I thought they were going to reveal, oh, no, he's not someone with disassociative identity disorder. He is someone who experienced this and this is his brain evolved to this point. Well, that's kind of what it is. Kind of. Yeah. Well, the thing is, she doesn't believe in the beast. No. And the reason that we learn that this is all

happening is that Dennis and Patricia believe that this new personality, the beast, is coming. And he's going to whatever take over the body and in their opinion like improve it and uh to her like as a mental health professional however you might want to put it uh she's like no no that's just you know that's your worst fears that's your nightmare that's just scary stories and that's what these more aggressive personalities are just using as an excuse to

take over. Right. And she's like, you know how you know the beast isn't real? He's not in there with you guys. And they're like, we saw him at a train station. And she's like, yeah, but your train station, that's where your father left you. That's the trigger place. So that's just you thinking the worst, essentially.

Right. But then the other thing she gets to here is that or that the movie gets to here is that the beast represents a physiological

when she asks him what the beast looks like because he's bigger much bigger than I am he's taller he can climb the wall yeah

I think they say he has long hair long fingers okay right yeah I don't think anything about hair but long fingers muscular can climb the walls.

Right. She says it in very detail, but it's like, you know, micro abrasions in the walls somehow can cling to them. Sure. And someone's done this before, right? Wall-crawling super freak? No. No, but you know what I mean? One of these things where it's like someone explains how it all works before it happens.

Pseudoscience, essentially, is what I'm trying to think. Now I have to think through his movies. Sure. I mean, doesn't The Visit kind of do that? The Visit kind of does it. Yeah. But then, of course, in The Visit, it turns out, yeah, it's not them. Right.

You know, they are supposed to visit. Yeah. They're just crazy people from the insane asylum. Yes. This is a thing that I like when movies do, when they sort of give you the guideline. They explain to you how it's going to go down so that when the thing goes down,

it can exist in purely visual terms. I am a fan of that. Me too. Right, and that's what I'm trying to figure out, if you pulled that trick before. I feel he did, but I can't think of what. Yeah, what is it? I don't know.

I mean, I guess. Unbreakable kind of does that with him being able to. Yeah, right, exactly. Scrunch. Yes, scrunch. Scrunch, breakable. So the other thing that's happening here, well, we may be going out of order a little bit, but there's a scene where Betty Buckley talks to her next-door neighbor.

Yeah, that's pretty early in the movie. I would say that's probably after the first meeting with Kevin. I think it might be the second. It's the first or the second, what have you. And I was already kind of impressed by the movie just because, like, you know, especially seeing something like 10 Cloverfield Lane. You know, three girls wake up underground in a bunker in a locked room. Here's a dude with a great sweater collection and 23 personalities, right? Amen.

And you expect that the rest of the movie is going to be like a bottle movie in this basement. Torture, essentially. Psychological torture. Right.

And then like 10 minutes later, he leaves, goes outside, gets a cab, goes to his therapist. He's in a different setting. Yeah. Like he's going about his day.

Right. And that's, already I was like, interesting move Shyamalan's doing, right? He's throwing this movie off the hump, so to speak.

He goes, has a couple therapy sessions with her where he's like, yeah, disregard that email. Disregard that email. Right. And by the second one, she's on to him.

She's on to him. For sure. Right. And she goes to see her friend. Next door. No, well, okay, fine.

Go ahead. What about the next door neighbor? Which, oh, by the way, Sterling K. Brown's role was going to be that he was another psychiatrist who lived next door. That's what I figured, that he was going to be some kind of a fellow mental health professional who maybe disagreed with her. Yes, that's what it was going to be. what it was going to be but then there was also a sense of romantic attachment to him that he wanted to counterpoint to show how lonely betty buckley's character was by showing her lusting after a character she couldn't be with but then also the intellectual battle between the two of them right he said he said the first color movie was three hours long there was like 30 minutes

of sterling k brown that they cut out entirely because he was just like i shouldn't have written this this is a distraction from what's actually going on in the movie. The movie's two hours long, in my opinion. It's too long. I agree. With a kind of movie like this, it really should just be 90 minutes, 100 tops. These movies should be as short as possible. I agree. It's just a little too long.

I mean, it didn't really hurt the movie for me. I was on board the whole time and pretty tense the whole time. But it's long. It's longer than a movie like this usually is. Although like the fucking Conjuring 2 is

two and a half hours long. Yeah, Conjuring 2. And Conjuring 1. Like yeah. Some of these movies can really live in it. And this movie's basically successful.

Not to go into Conjuring cyber, but I think the difference between the Conjuring movies and something like this is that the Conjuring movies, to their credit, want to have full emotional character arcs

for... For the Ghostbusters and the villain, and the haunted. It essentially is like get you a movie that can do both. Like it's,

the struggles of maintaining a good marriage movies and horror movies. So it kind of needs two hours to be able to run both. No beef, no beef. Split them.

The scene with the next door neighbor, she goes to talk to who's a woman who can't stop ordering stuff online yeah batty old lady right uh and she's like why do you believe in these people you know why do you put in the time that guy seems on the whatever i think that's when this idea is introduced betty buckley is starts tiptoeing around this thing where she's like, what if they're not the broken people? Like we look at them functioning differently than us and we think they're a broken version of what they're supposed to be. Right. What if they're actually an evolution? Right. What if they're the next step forward? You're like, huh? Interesting. This makes me think that he is not what she's saying.

He is that he's some other thing. Right. And I couldn't put my finger on it. I was like, I don't think M. Night's going to make him an alien or something, but maybe it's like, because it's a little neat to be like, his mom beat him, and now he has 23 personalities, but one of them is a monster man. Sure.

You know? Yeah. So I was like, radioactive waste? I was thinking, is he going to go into some comic book-y territory where there's some weird science fiction explanation for it that isn't psychological trauma? Uh-huh. He doesn't.

No. But he is going with that idea. Right. That he does exist in that sort of vein while having a very straightforward backstory that would result in that kind of condition. Now, I don't think the movie thinks that he is the next step in human evolution but the movie thinks he thinks it and that she thinks it how's the movie not think that when the movie is gonna go kill him right because he is an unbreakable and not an unbreakable in the sense that he's unbreakable but that he's one of these oh you're saying well bruce willis is on the

well i guess i put it this way doesn't think it's a good thing that's more what i mean no it doesn't mean it's a good thing no 100 not but she kind mean. No, it doesn't mean it's a good thing. No, 100% not. But she kind of thinks it might be a good thing. Sure. But it is definitely a thing. I think the movie is arguing that the broken people are actually not broken. They're superpowers. Sure.

You know? Yeah. Forged in trauma, much like Bruce Willis is. Except he's forged in physical trauma. Thank you. And also, he had it from birth. Yeah.

Is it birth? The implication in Unbreakable is that he didn't realize he had it until he survived the car crash. But after the car crash, he psychosomatically told himself that he had broken his back. Right, but the car crash is when he's a teenager. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Unbreakable, he's never been sick.

The only time he ever had it was drowning in the pool when he was a kid, so he had it from the beginning. And same with Mr. Glass, who had it from the beginning. And then this movie comes at an absolutely opposite track. When Unbreakable, both the good guy and the bad guy are presented as some people are physically born in a weird way. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. Here's my counter to you yeah maybe not go on like you know yes he suffered you know at the hands of his

mother right you know but is that a coincidence you're saying uh maybe that's what made things bad for him but like maybe he already was someone who had a weird memory palace that a bunch of things could live in, and eventually, if he hung out with animals too much, that they would start to live there too. Maybe he's some sort of an empath or a, you know what I'm saying? Yes. A memory sponge, whatever. Someone who can absorb.

Because look, right at the end of the movie, they drop this idea that the beast is an amalgamation of all the animals near him. Which comes out of fucking nowhere. Well, yes and no. And but like, so then it's like that is sort of the rewriting of the rules where it's like, oh, no, this isn't like exactly forged by psychiatric trauma. This seems to be like a power. Right.

Right. Oh, God. We'll get back into the plot of the movie. I mean... Well, I mean... It's kind of just survival at that point. I mean, let's say the one major hook of the movie, which is like the best hook the movie has,

is Anya Taylor-Joy figures out that she might be able to use some of the personalities to help her against the personalities of her. Of course, right, right. That it's like she... She starts to make friends with Hedwig, the little boy. Right, right. And Hedwig helps her understand certain things,

and eventually she steals a walkie-talkie from him. You know, there's that stuff. But can she negotiate with the personalities, and can this one human body that kidnapped her also be the one that's... Yeah, exactly. That's the biggest hook the movie has that kind of ends up not really being what the movie's about.

No, but it is the tension, I guess, of the middle third, especially of the movie. Sure. But it's also a way for us to learn more about how everything works. Right. Now, the other big thing, because we just need to get into the talk. The other big thing is the flashbacks. Right, okay. So there are these flashbacks.

I mean, again, look, props to M. Night. They're beautifully done. They're so menacing and odd. Yeah, they're really well done. You got Brad Henke as your uncle. From Draft Day, of course. We all remember him as Tony Bagel on Draft Day. Is that his name?

Yeah. Bagel? I think his name is like Tony Bagali, but they call him like Tony Bagel Bagali. Who's the dad? Sebastian? I didn't recognize him. Areculus? I vaguely recognized him. He's the dad? Sebastian. I didn't recognize him. Arachilus.

I vaguely recognized him. He's in House of Cards. I see. All right. Oh, right. He was in a couple leftovers. Yeah. All right.

He's been in some stuff. So all the flashbacks, save for the last one, all take place within one day of her life. It seems, yeah. One traumatizing day of her life that starts with her. They're on a camping trip. Right. Her and her dad and her uncle. And it's yeah. One traumatizing day of her life. It starts with her. They're on a camping trip, her and her dad and her uncle. And it's her getting lunch with the uncle and the dad. And she's learning how to hunt. It's set up in a very creepy way.

He's kind of using the Jonathan Demme, Sons of the Lambs, staring down the lens. The uncle shots are weird. It's like this wide-angle lens, and he looks kind of distorted. It looks gorgeous, too. It's like really bright oranges in the, you know, because it's like autumnal.

Yeah. And it just, it looks like a dream, is the best way to put it. It's hyper-real. And... Brad William Henke's a big guy. He's a big guy. I mean, he's well-cast. That's the kind of role Brad William Henke's always played. He's got extreme facial features. Either gentle giants or scary giants. And in the opening scene,

he's set up as sort of this funny uncle. The dad's taking the piss out of him, talking about shitting on him for his hunting thing. This is clearly a hunting trip where the dad's trying to get the daughter into a hunting And I would say, at least initially, I'm like, oh, are we going to learn that there's something like that the daughter is some kind of a, I don't know. That's what I thought as well. Expert hunter, crazy, because she has her own psychosis that's not what i not what it turns out to be but i was thinking along the same lines as

we said you know both of us essentially that is she like a psychopath you know or something like that yes because we sat there watching this movie i think both of us as you said we were not together no rejected me i didn't reject you i chose benny okay and in. You rejected me. I didn't reject you. You rejected me. I chose Benny. Okay. In doing so, rejected me. Because I thought it would be fun to watch Ben's reaction, and in reality, I think it ended up being Ben watching my reaction. Right. Yeah.

It was pretty still the whole movie. It was definitely the other way around. I was sort of just like, oh, it's good. Ben's usually a pretty still watcher of things. Thinking about the great picture that I took of him at Taruk the First Flight. Sure, he's thoughtful. But then Rogue One, he was pumping his face. That's true. Rogue One, he was all the way in.

I was pumped. I was excited. I also didn't want to leave Benny alone. I knew that you were going to go with Joe and Joe. You went with your brother and Joe Reed. Joe Reed was there. Richard Lawson was there. We were sitting together. I didn't want to make Ben have to see Split Alone. No, I appreciate that.

That's what made sense, but I wanted to get at you anyway. I know, rake me over the calls, it's fine. Yeah, and then with these flashbacks, we learn that it's no, it's the uncle was abusing her. Right, and so all the flashbacks are to this one day when they went on this

hunting trip and the uncle sort of started grooming her, leading to this moment that is so upsetting and so disturbing. And again, very well done by Shyamalan, you know. Look, I certainly am fighting over whether or not I think it was the right move for him to do as a storyteller, but in terms of execution of what he intended to do, it's beautifully executed. The uncle's hiding behind a rock.

He's naked. Yeah, and he's like, let's be animals together. Animals don't wear clothes. Why are you wearing Yeah. And he's like, let's be animals together. Animals don't wear clothes. Why are you wearing clothes? And it's like, without showing anything, it tells you everything. And it leaves a pit in your stomach. But I will admit, yeah, this is where I'm like, I just have that Shyamalan dread, you know, that I've had with so many of his movies where I'm like, yeah, too much paprika.

He's, yeah, this is, I don't know if he can pull this off. This is really difficult stuff. And he's, you know, he's pull this off this is really difficult stuff and he's being Shyamalan about it it's also like stop using fucking rape and molestation as a device I don't disagree with you but at the same time

this is a schlocky B-horror movie and of course those are such core tenets but I get both sides and I'm like a big proponent. I've always been like, I don't think you can blame the artist for how people could misinterpret the message, right?

Of course not. If you're playing with fire. Depiction does not equal endorsement. Exactly, which I think is a conversation that doesn't happen enough in our culture today. If something bad happens on screen, people assume that the person likes that thing. Right.

And it drives me fucking insane. No, it's... Because movies should be allowed to be muddied and complicated and exist in gray areas. Yeah. And if you're a fucking literate person, you can sit there and probably parse out the intent. And, you know, you can't really say anything of any value

without actually delving into the dark side right i think i agree um but this gets into the sort of flockmeister thing of just like using pushing buttons for the sake of just like playing the symphony you know you got to hit every key on the piano. Especially when you're dealing with child sexual abuse, you know? Amen. And when you're waiting for like, okay, but this is M night. Is there some puzzle piece? Is there some reason why this experience is going to align perfectly with everything the movie was doing so that it results in an ending that couldn't have happened if this wasn't the case and not really kind of you know i mean he was always going to

have her be traumatized in some way because the point of the ending is that in her the beast sees a kindred spirit rather than something to go there i don't know i mean that's where he went you know so you're i mean i'm not someone who watches a movie and says like i mean this is a joke it's an old scott ackerman joke but i feel like we've made it on the podcast before where it's like you know you there's some detail about the movie you don't like so you're like i like west side story but like they have to dance all the time you know whatever you know like just um you know that's what's in the movie. And in general, I agree that this shit's a crutch a lot of the time. Your procedural TV shows, your crime shows, and especially your whatever,

where so often it's just sort of this tossed-off excuse or whatever, right? You know what I mean? Like, oh, and, you know, the reason this guy is because blah, and, like, you get one minute of time devoted to it. And then you just go like, well, of course course we all agree that's bad sure right you know it's like we all agree that's bad and it's in a way to immediately register uh sympathy and empathy for a character and also raise the stakes and like deepen the dramatic investment because now everyone's uneasy yeah it always gets you fucking emotionally riled up.

It's true. In some way or another. If that happens in a movie. That's a, you know, yeah, right. You're pushing a big red button and of course, right, I'm not going to, you know, be like, oh, fuck her. You know, like, yeah, it's too easy. Either it's going to get the response they want out of you or you're going to be angry that they used it in an abusive way.

In a cheap way. Either way, no one sits there and goes like, huh. You know, it's like, it's always like, ugh. So I would say, yeah, this is the thing, but then the unbreakable twist,

again, because I realized we were just playing in a different pool, I was like, oh, okay, okay.

And maybe I'm a big asshole for being that way. But here's a big scene I want to talk about, okay? I know we're jumping around, but, well,

the movie's then pretty much just survival. I mean, it's her trying to get out and she... There's some great miniature scenes, but we can't do them all. No. Like, you know. But there's lots of good scenes.

And McAvoy's always great. And look, if you're listening to this podcast, you saw this movie this weekend. You don't need us to fucking do the synopsis. So let's keep on talking about these things, right? Okay, so the scene for me, all these flashbacks happen on the same day. And the flashback that happens, I think, right after she gets out. Right? She watches the video of his video diaries.

You see bits of some of the other personalities. She's smart. Oh, she sees the key. She finds it. He's turned into the beast at this point. He goes to the train station with the flowers, which is what he's trying to reenact his father. And then Wentz on the train... That's what activates this final transformation. Right. And then Wentz on the train. That's what activates this final transformation.

Right. And he's on the abandoned train and then he takes off his clothes and his muscles get... He sort of grows slightly. He gets swole. Although it's mostly just the acting,

I would say. There's not too much embellishment. I agree. They CGI like veins on him. They CGI some blue veins, but I mean, apart from that, he doesn't really actually

look that different. It's not like he hulks up. Yeah, I could have used a horn or two. Alright. Just one or two. He comes back, now he's the beast, and now he... He's climbing the walls.

That's a pretty good image. Agreed. Pretty fucking scary. Also, he eats people's tummies. He eats their tummies up. Yum, yum, yum. Okay, so I have a lot of things to say. Delicious tummy. Do you think that he eats their personalities?

Thank you. Yeah. Isn't that the idea? That's what he says. Does he? Yes. He says that multiple times. Like, the weak will be more personalities for him.

So do you think that that is all he has ever been? I don't know. You mean like is this like a Siler in Heroes where he had to eat their brains to get their powers? Yes. I don't know. Like you think like... Is he not someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder? Is he essentially the cannibal version of Rogue?

I don't think so. I think that You know what I mean by the cannibal version of Rogue? I do know what you mean by the cannibal version of Rogue. Usually she did not retain the powers. That's why we're friends. Only Ms. Marvel because she held on too long. Do you remember that time I was talking to you about... About Dark Phoenix Daga?

Yeah. And that's why we're friends. I know. Can I tell a story really quick? I think you've told it on this podcast before. Have I really? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. About Mulaney.

I got fired off Mulaney the sitcom. I'm pretty sure you've told this. And David texted me and said, how are you feeling? And I said, well, when the show wasn't picked up,'ve told this and David texted me and said how are you feeling and I said well when the show wasn't picked up it felt like I was cyclops and the show was Jean Grey

and my girlfriend died and now it feels like the Dark Phoenix saga where my girlfriend's come back to life and now she wants to kill me

and you said go ahead we should be friends this is why we should be friends this is why we should be friends that you can drop

that reference and I'm obviously completely understand it. We became the two friends. We'd only hung out once before that. We'd only hung out the one time. And then we became the two friends. Los dos amigos. So split.

Split, though. No, the way, and I only saw the movie once, and I saw it a few days ago, but I'm pretty sure that the logic of the film is the Beast's whole what's the word? Position. Platform.

We need more personality. Also pro-Smiths. Of course he's pro-Smiths. He's running on a pro-Smiths platform. We should mention that. If only we had a pro-Smiths president. We do not. This is going to be a no-bits president. I'm sorry, you were saying

the Beast platform. Yeah, is that we need more personalities and that's why the idea and we hear overheard that he had been stalking these women for weeks. Right.

Claire and Marsha. And he was looking for blank vessels. Yeah, he wants essentially who he thinks are, it's like, there's a word he uses for it. Yeah, but I mean,

there's another like less where it's like the unclean, the untainted, I don't know. Yeah, but I mean, but there's another like less where it's like the unclean, the untainted or I don't know, like. Yeah, there are a lot of like, there's a lot of vocabulary in this way.

The Horde is a thing that he's brought up. The Horde is like, okay, that's shorthand for. That's his super villain name. The group.

Yes. Well, it becomes a super villain name. But early in the film he refers to like the Horde are all fighting over this. Yes.

And it's like, okay, that's what he calls the Starship Dave inside of him. Yeah. But, you know, it's the idea, it's feeding, okay, that's what he calls the Starship Dave inside of him. Yeah. But, you know, it's the idea, it's feeding into the thing

that I was already talking about that's sort of like, you know, these people in there, pathetic, suburban, middle-class lives, you know. They're nothing to him.

He might, you know, like that's, right, he's the next step in evolution so he's just gonna, you know, use them as personality food. So the personalities he has up until now are actual i believe so right they're they're uh you know personas that he built

in response to his traumatic childhood as a coping mechanism but now from here on out his personalities are going to be souls he eats ritual sacrifice i don't know it's. I don't know. It's like, it's both. But I mean, they're like sacrifices. They're like food. Like, I don't know if they're going to then hang out in his brain. I don't, that's what I'm asking. Look, he doesn't say he's too busy being like, rah! He doesn't.

The movie drops a lot of shit right at the fucking end like that. Tummies! Eat some tummies. Now. We see a very brief shot of a tummy-less corpse. I believe it's Haley Lou Richardson. Right. I can't remember who.

One of the two. It's the other one, but then... Jessica Sula. Jessica Sula, but then I'd say the one jump scare in the movie is she opens the door and Haley Lou Richardson's lying on the ground. She goes, come on, we need to leave right now. And then there's a jump. She gets yoinked. It's sort of a mild jump, but yes.

Yeah, but it's the closest thing to a conventional jump scare. But it's not like one of those jumps, those kinds of jumps that you see in the movies where they get pulled back by a super, like, you know, they get like whisked back with super, like, it just seems like she's getting pulled back by a person. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

So, um... Yeah? Okay, fine. Ah! He waited for me to put my headphones back on. Yeah, uh, um... Yeah? Okay, fine. Ah! He waited for me to put my headphones back on. Yeah, uh, I... So everything's going to shit. She's the only one who survives.

He's chasing her. She ends up in a cage. She thinks he's about to... Yeah, she's got a shotgun. She shoots at him. Oh, wait a second. Betty Buckley comes down there. second. Betty Buckley comes down there. Right.

Betty Buckley comes down there in an attempt to fix this problem that she sees developing. So she's talking to Dennis, and about halfway through her conversation with Dennis, she realizes, like, this B-shit is for real. And how does she figure out that the other guy is actually dennis playing the the fashion guy um well there's we almost forgot about it i mean can't believe we almost forgot about it yeah do you remember now which thing the m night cameo jesus fucking christ he thought he was so funny cameo based on a true friendship oh my god as i believe he's called Hooters Lover In the credits His character name is Jai Comma Hooters Lover

Yeah Where she looks at the surveillance footage afterwards Of him leaving her office With Jai Who is a pizza delivery guy Or something Maybe he's like the super But he loves Hooters

And she sees him walk straight through the garbage and she realizes like there's some overturned garbage. She's like, oh, that's too cute. Like people would walk around garbage. He's trying to act like he doesn't care. Yes. And it's too obvious. He's got OCD, I know. He's actually quite a clever

little... Yes. But yeah, no. And then she figures out it's Dennis and she talks to Dennis in her office he admits by flattering him that's when he tells him the beast thing all of that you know and the idea we begin to realize is that Patricia the nicer one is kind of like a fanatic like she's sort of almost like a religious type she's a zealot exactly and so she believes in the beast as well just sort of in a sort of a different way sure um and yeah so Betty Buckley goes down there, realizes that he has kidnapped people. Right.

And starts to plead with him like this is no good. Yeah. And then tries to get out of there, stuffs a handkerchief into a door. So the door can be open. The lock will never activate. And then he just grabs her and kills her. Puts her in a room too. No, he kills her.

He grabs her and he squeezes her. Oh, right. Yes, yes. That moment's actually very good. Very effective. Very effective. It's her in a room too. No, he kills her. He grabs her and he squeezes her. Oh, right. Yes, yes. That moment's actually very good. Very effective. Very effective. It's a very good death scene. Yes.

But that's after she sees, yeah, she opens the door. She's seen the tummy. Right, she tries to get him out. Tummy, tummy. Oh, boy. But yeah, and so yeah,

but at that point, briefly after that, that causes, oh, well, she writes his real name down. Say his name. Right. And so Annie Taylor-Joy says his name, which we've learned earlier is like a way to essentially just sort of set off chaos.

Right. Weirdly, it's Bye Bye Man. And so- That was a topical joke for you. Thank you. Yeah, really topical. Do I get any points? Yeah, you get five topical points. It. Thank you. Yeah, really topical. Do I get any points? Yeah, you get five topical points.

It wasn't funny, but it was topical. Yeah. Bye bye, Benny. So Barry briefly emerges, the real Barry, and just says to Annie Taylor Joy, he sees like the Betty Buckley's death. And says, just kill me. Just kill me. There's a shotgun here.

Just kill me. And he goes, it's still like November 2014, right? And she's like, no. And he's like, okay, I haven't been in control in a long time. I don't know what the fuck's going on, but I know it can't be good. Kill me right the fuck now. And so she gets the shotgun and in this showdown where he is the beast and he's chasing her around,

she shoots him. It doesn't kill him. No. And you think he's, like he comes up to the cage and he's like prying the bars open teeth are all bloody and he's laughing at her now I have to pause I have to pause

there are a few things we have to talk about okay before getting to this moment because there are things the films have set things that the film has set up

what okay one is that scene where he's saying please shoot me please shoot me plays like a fucking wolfman scene

right it's that sort of horror movie trope yeah right I can't believe it that I've done these things. Yeah. Right. I have no control over this.

I know I can't control this. You have to take me out. Which then gets into more- Kind of a Dark Phoenix saga thing. Yes. Kill me, Scott. And that's why we're friends. And David just lovingly smiled.

But I could barely see the smile from behind the microphone. It's playing with this being more of a sort of possession than a mental illness well because well but it's well dennis and patricia they're not good right right but it's like if he hasn't been in his own brain in two to three years you know this goes beyond this is when i thought they were going to make it very clear that like okay that diagnosis was 100 wrong this woman's a quack and we had the scene previously of her skyping into the psychiatric conference everyone being like what's your proof and she's like dogs react differently yeah she gives this sort of thing or it's like well some people did

like one of their personalities has diabetes in the or well that's actually in the movie but like one of their personalities has like high blood pressure and the other does not you know right how do you explain that uh and it's that thing he's doing like in the movie, but one of their personalities has high blood pressure and the other does not. How do you explain that? And it's that thing he's doing in The Visit where he's taken a nugget of science and spun it into an extreme version. Right. So he's trying to, I feel like, have his cake and eat it too. Oh, my God. David's showing me the panels from the Dark Knight saga.

He's trying to have his cake and eat it too because it's like, if you're going to play this fast and lose them, why don't you just explain that that isn't what is going on here? That it was a misinterpretation any way that this tracked with the idea. If you want more explanation, yeah, alright, okay. That's fair. I mean, yeah, you have to sort of pick up on the world building at this point, I guess. Yeah.

No one sits down and says, ah, it wasn't the idea. Well, hey, I got a question. How is he getting away with living in a zoo? Well, he works there. He's the maintenance guy, and they just don't check the basement at all? Why would you check that basement? I'm a flame. Okay, so wait.

That's the, okay, fine. This is the other important thing I need to bring into the picture before we talk about the last five minutes of this movie, okay? The final two flashbacks. All the flashbacks have taken place within the one day within the camping trip. The second to last flashback is her taking out a shotgun and pointing it at the uncle. Yes. And not firing.

Right. And he takes it back. He grabs it from her. Right. So you go like, that's kind of weird. That's kind of ominous. Sure. Now suddenly there's a shotgun.

Uh-huh. Well, there's been a shotgun in every other scene. I mean, a weapon. A hunting weapon. I'm saying now suddenly back in the main timeline. Uh-huh. Well, there's been a shotgun in every other scene. I mean, a weapon. A hunting weapon. I'm saying now suddenly back in the main timeline. Okay, okay, okay. She said the name. He goes, please kill me.

There's the shotgun. She has the shotgun. And you're like, what was the mirror? Okay, what is he setting up here? Uh-huh. Because you're twist hunting. Okay, okay. And then what happens?

Carry on, carry on. She shoots him twice. Yeah. And then, okay what why was the final why was that flashback in there just to show that she knows how to work a shotgun no my guess is yes and that is also a trigger because she does load and unload the shotgun with ease but no uh you know the end of the movie is that she's going to finally tell the police what her uncle is doing and so my guess is that this is where she now finally has the courage

to defend herself. Do the thing that she couldn't have done when she was younger? Because my interpretation of the final shot of her that I don't think is a wrong interpretation. I don't think it's a wacky interpretation. She's building up the courage to say. Yes. Because the cops say, your uncle's here. Do you want to go? Do you want to go get him?

And she just doesn't say anything, freezes looks at the cop and the cop sort of like hovers with like a concerned look on their face and you're you know she's going to say i'm like i'm not safe with him okay so at this point in the film james mcavoy has in trying to chase her down and biting her leg ripped off her clothes so that many of the various layers she is wearing have been revealed well Well, also, we should say Dennis's whole thing throughout the movie has been like, if something gets dirty, take it off. Yes. So, Hayley Richardson has to take off her sweater.

She's wearing nothing but a bra underneath her sweater. Right. Jessica Sula has to take off her skirt, and so she's just wearing underwear. Both of them are lightly clothed. Which is the first time for someone- And it's sort of like girl in a basement trope shit, but someone, to his credit, does not do any of the gross torture porny stuff. For a guy who's known as a horror filmmaker, he has never before-

He's never been a sexploitative director. Not even that. The most basic trope, which is like, you know, crazy monster or person chasing scantily clad teenage girl. Girls in their underwear who are going, ah! Dusty corridors, you know, dark, grimy, whatever. Final girls. He's never been doing final girl shit. And this movie definitely gets to this

kind of final girl showdown. Right. Where now her layers have been ripped off and you see for the first time he looks and there's a dramatic sort of pan up her body. But I was just going to say she's taken off a lot of her clothes throughout the movie but always to reveal that she has like another shirt on

another shirt on below that like she's got a lot of layers on. So now we see that she has scarring all over her body. On her tummy. And on her shoulder. And on her shoulder. In several spots she has pretty deep scarring. Self harms. Okay. Upsetting? Sure. You know? And on her shoulder. In several spots, she has pretty deep scars. She self-harms. Okay.

Yes. Upsetting? Sure. You know? Yeah. Upsetting because that's upsetting if people do that. You know, when people do that, it's a feel for them. Also upsetting because you're like,

do you really need to play that card right now? He's playing the card. But that's the visual shorthand. The idea is that trips for him a recognition. Like, oh, you're not whatever category those other girls were. You know, like you are. You're like me. You've suffered, so that makes you pure. The only good people are the people who have experienced severe pain.

Trauma. Yeah, right. Okay, so he's a villain who doesn't like people who haven't lived through terrible things. Right. But people who have lived through terrible things. Right. But people who have lived through terrible things. Right. They're going to be in his army of the future. Does she have any powers?

No. You think definitively not? Yeah. For sure. Definitively not. His reactions to her are so strange throughout the movie. Even the way he just kind of doesn't notice her, even in the immediate abduction.

It felt like there was some thing she was putting out there. The reason he doesn't notice her is because he was stalking those two girls. That's all I took from it. But then why... She's like an unplanned variable for him. He didn't really think about her. Like, he wants those two girls, right? He'd been stalking them for weeks.

And the third one he just doesn't even care about. It's just like, well, it's extra. She just wasn't his care about. It's just like, well, it's extra. Yeah. She just wasn't in his plan. You know that. I felt like with the final reveal, there was... There's not. There's no superpower here. That's just his worldview.

He's a supervillain. He's explaining his worldview. Okay, so... Yeah, he's like Magneto. Well, that's what Ben and I were saying afterwards. He's Professor X in another movie, though. No, that he's like Magneto. Well, that's what Ben and I were saying afterwards. He's Professor X in another movie, though. No, that he's like Magneto, that he's this

purist who believes that only his species should survive. And she is of his species, in the sense that she is traumatized. Would he not think that Bruce Willis should survive, even though Bruce Willis is also an evolutionary... Bruce Willis is

a superhero. He's going to stop him because he kills people. Okay, but what about Mr. Glass? What about Mr. Glass? Would he not like Mr. Glass because Mr. Glass wasn't physically or sexually abused to the best of our knowledge? No, I have no idea. Mr. Glass doesn't come into it. Mr. Glass is another supervillain.

This isn't a world about his supervillainy. It't a world about his supervillainy. It's a world that supervillains exist in. Like, just because Magneto exists in a world doesn't... Magneto and Apocalypse don't have any similar worldviews. They just are villains in the same world. I think what Griffin's asking is it's nature

versus nurture. So in, like, the Marvel universe, you have, like, people who were born mutants, and then you also have sort of, like have older characters that were exposed to radiation or space or spiritual stuff. Or you just have characters who are bastards who made a robot arm for themselves. Exactly. Right.

So the two super characters in Unbreakable are both born that way. Sure. And the one character in Split who definitively has powers is sort of made that way. Sure, whatever. Yeah. He got his powers differently. Right. But she isn't, even though she sort of had the same circumstances.

She doesn't have any superpowers. What are you talking about? That's what I'm saying. So she doesn't have powers. No. What's the movie fucking saying? What? Is he a dude who was born as some weird evolutionary leap?

This is his supervillain origin story. He is unleashed, and one hopes, in Unbreakable 2, he will do battle with David Dunn. Did he get that power because his mom beat him? I don't know. That's not what I'm interested in. That's what I'm interested in. Okay. I don't care about that.

He's asking a lot of fucking big questions out there tying into the Unbreakable universe, which has one very clear way that these fucking people exist. No. Which is that they're born this way. No, in Unbreakable, the idea that's so amazing and fascinating about Unbreakable, which is a different movie,

is that Samuel L. Jackson has decided that this, whoever this person is, whoever he'll find it, would be his polar opposite, right? Because he's decided that all superheroes and supervillains, it's all duality, right? And like, if I'm the most breakable man, it right would be his polar opposite right because he he's decided that all superhero and super

villains it's all duality right and like yeah if there's an unbreak if i'm the most breakable man then there must be an unbreakable man right and that person would be my super villain but samuel jackson is not super powered he has a real condition and he's just a crazy person in a wheelchair right and the movie ends with that statement because he you know bruce willis is walking away from this guy being like oh no what a bad person right right but that movie but he's like a lex luther yes this is not a lex luther no this is a different kind of super person right but that movie presupposes that... I just... Comic book universes

can have all kinds of different origins and behaviors and, you know, powers. They can have people who don't have powers but want to be villains anyway. Yes, they can.

But let's talk about the weird unorthodox construction of this universe, okay? He makes a movie for Disney in 2000. Yeah. It's viewed as maybe

a double at the box office, right? It makes 100 mil. These days it'd probably be viewed as maybe a double at the box office, right? It makes 100 mil. These days it would probably be viewed as more successful back then. At the time, expectations were too high. Off of the hype of the sixth sense, it suffers. Right. But then quickly re-evaluated, well-liked film, right?

It grows in hype, yeah. You know, it gets a kind of cult following that grows and grows and grows, especially as his career kind of nosedives. People start to go like, oh, maybe that was the best one. You know, that was the one we kind of slept on. Absolutely. I think, yes, yeah. And then for years, people keep on going like,

hey, why don't you make an Unbreakable sequel? That's the movie we want you to make. And he always says, I'd love to. And Bruce wants to. Like, that's always the line. Okay, now four or five years ago, he starts saying like, you know, I might do something,

but if I were going to make an Unbreakable sequel, it would be an unconventional sequel. He starts saying that a lot. He, at Universal, in the late 2000s when he made Devil, that was part of a shingle he had set up called The Night Chronicles. That was going to be him. Coming up with ideas

that other people would direct. Right. He would produce. Sort of like a Twilight Zone in cinema form. He'd give them the logline. He'd go, here you go. And then other people would write it, other people would direct it, he'd produce it, and it was Tales from M. Night Shyamalan's Mind. He at that time said that he was going to. Devil was viewed

as a disappointment. His name drew such derision that they cancelled the deal. This is all important. What did he say? They cancelled the rest of that deal, but he had said that one of the films he was going to make under the Night Chronicles was what was originally his idea for Unbreakable 2 that he had now turned into its own movie. That must be this.

One assume. Has to be this. Because what he has now said... I would never say has to be, but go on. I went down the rabbit hole deep last night. He has said that he came up with this idea 15 years ago in an interview where he didn't spoil the Unbreakable thing. He said this is the longest incubation.

I had this idea for this character as a supervillain who would be the supervillain in Unbreakable 2, and then when I thought Unbreakable 2 wasn't going to happen, I toyed around with well, I like this character, I like this setup. What if it's now the girls in the basement? What if it's not about Bruce Willis stopping him? What if it's that as a horror movie from the perspective of the

Capitans? And that's the movie he made. And What if it's that as a horror movie from the perspective of the Capitans? Yeah, yeah. And that's the movie he made. Yeah. Okay? Right. And has sold it as not being a sequel to Unbreakable. Right. Which now is retconned into being Unbreakable. It is a sequel.

It was always a sequel to Unbreakable, baby. I know it always was. But you watch the movie not knowing that until the end. Right. Until the music plays. You do know what it is. At which point my brain fucking flipped out because I know that the movie is Unbreakable.

So we should say the James Newton Howard score to Unbreakable starts to play over. He escapes. Yes. And you see a TV report that's like, he's got multiple personalities. Before that, he's in the mirror and he looks at the wounds on his chest

from the shotgun. Yeah, the bullet wounds, right. And he goes, they hit me, but it didn't go through. I'm stronger, it works. And at that moment, he's giving this kind of evil villain speech like Samuel Jackson at the end of Unbreakable James Newton Howard's theme plays I turn to Ben

I like my brain starts like catching on fire I mean it's literally like a robot I am less familiar I guess with the score than you because the minute the score started I immediately was like wait a second I know this music and was sort of racking my brain like the fuck is this music is this a song I know and then five seconds later I was like, wait a second. I know this music. And was sort of racking my brain like, what the fuck is this music?

Is this a song I know? And then five seconds later, I'm like, this is the Unbreakable. Right. That's like, Squarefront Breakable is probably in my top 25 on iTunes. I listen to it a lot. So I recognize it immediately. And I turned to Ben. And I was like shaking.

And my head was spinning. But I was like, Soto. And I was just like, this is the Squarefront Breakable. What the fuck is he doing? What the fuck is he doing? What the fuck is he doing? This is the Squarefront Breakable. And Ben was like, but I was like, Soto, and I was just like, this is the score from Unbreakable. What the fuck is he doing? What the fuck is he doing? What the fuck is he doing? This is the score from Unbreakable. And Ben was like, what? And I was like, I guarantee you this is the score from Unbreakable. Then the movie

ends. It says split. You go, weird ending. Okay. I mean, I was surprised that he escaped. I figured she was gonna kill him. Right, so it's like, okay, so it just ends with him looking in the mirror and being like, I'm victorious. And there's also that scene, like we say, where it turns out they're in the zoo and she gets rescued by the cops and the cops escape. Well, I want to talk about that in one second.

Okay. I want to loop back around to that because that's my biggest gripe with the movie, okay? Says split, and then we cut to a diner where there's a news broadcast talking about this man, and now suddenly they're talking about him in very straightforward superhero villain terms. Right, where it's like 23 personalities, and then a 24th that is supposedly an amalgam of the animals in the zoo. They call him the Horde. Right, so he's essentially Animal Man. Sure.

But a crazy version of Animal Man from DC Comics, right? Right, right. He's Animal Man as a supervillain who is... He's also like Legion Legion who is the classic version of the quote-unquote multiple personalities and multiple powers, whatever.

Which is about to be a show on FX. Indeed. Which is going to be interesting to see as a counterpoint to this movie. It's bad.

Don't say that! How much of it have you watched? A couple episodes. You also didn't like Fargo. Nope. Okay, so... I don't like this.

I'll take that with fucking 15 grains of salt. That's crazy. Fargo is so good. Yeah, one of my favorite TV shows of the decade. Way worse than Fargo. Put it that way. Okay, so then maybe it will be one of my 20 favorite shows of the decade.

It's really bad. It is to me what you think this movie is. Don't do this. You don't like Fargo though. I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Okay, Fargo's bad. You're wrong in dumb poop, dumb fart, diarrhea dumb. I'm not wrong.

People will figure that out pretty quickly. Never. Diarrhea, fart brain. Diner. This man who calls himself the Horde, zoo animals, this and that. And some lady's like, that sounds like that guy in a wheelchair. From 15 years ago. Remember that movie that Touchstone Pictures released?

I think it grows like 98.7 domestic because what did he call himself he gave himself a weird name oh karen pan's over who's there david dunn our old buddy bryce willis reprising the role of david dunn yeah you know he's david dunn because he's wearing a shirt that says done on it sure he's wearing his like uh his blue collar uniform yeah uh not the poncho no but he's wearing his blue collar uniform. Yeah. Not the poncho. No, but he's wearing his security guard uniform. Sure, and he says Mr. Glass. They called him Mr. Glass. They called him Mr. Glass.

Now, I love Unbreakable, as you know. Unbreakable! One of my favorite movies. I spent years hoping he would make a sequel before I got to the point where I went like, you know what? I don't trust M. Night. The movie's better as it is left alone. Like the movie with him fighting Mr. Glass

could never be as good as the implication, the idea that's presented at the end of the movie. You know, don't make it, don't touch it. And then now he's done this backdoor thing, which is like, oh, here's an unbreakable cinematic universe. Here's a character I set up in his own independent movie, his own unbreakable with the promise of,

I guess I could then make a movie where the two of them cross paths. Does M. Night just keep making movies introducing new characters? Unbreakable versus Split. So my question to you is, because there was a film that M. Night said he was going to make, they announced, with Bruce Willis, a reteaming with Bruce Willis, of which very little was known. And that sounded like it was going to be his next movie. And then that got pushed back for Split. Sure. Do you think that movie's unbreakable?

Yes. Two in disguise? Here's my thing. What I think he's doing here, M. Night Shyamalan is no doubt a man who is very interesting in the marketing and selling of his movies. He's always been from the beginning. And takes a vested- From the get-go.

Takes a very vested interest in the advertising, in the box office returns, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And my guess is he realized, here's how you do it. You plant the seed with this movie. See if you get, you know, the reaction you're looking for, which is essentially people being like, oh, shit. You know, I definitely watched that or I loved Unbreakable or whatever, you know. Okay. shit you know i definitely watched that or i loved unbreakable or whatever you know okay and then with that freight train of hype plus the hype that m. night shamblin is used to generating with his twists uh you can be like well here it is folks bruce willis and me back together again fighting

james mcavoy there you go okay unbreakable versus the horde so film nerd question for you that has no bearing on the quality of the film itself, but I think is worth discussing. Uh-huh. In that situation, if that's his plan, that this was to test the waters and see how people reacted to it, right? Yeah. And when I was talking about the movie to John Trowbridge yesterday, I said, it's weird because it actually, it's a different type of twist ending than I've ever seen a movie have before.

Totally. I've never seen a movie do this before. I can't think of a movie that's done something like this before. Where it essentially, in the last scene, recontextualizes the entire film. Announces to you that it's part of another cinematic universe. Right. So you now have to review the film through the prism of knowing what you know about that previous movie. Not that it changes the events of it, but it changes the meaning of the events in a way.

Which is very interesting. I mean, it's... It is. It's audacious. Bold, audacious movie. Not that it changes the events of it, but it changes the meaning of the events in a way. Which is very interesting. I mean, it's... It's audacious. Bold, audacious movie. And I will say, it's a thing I used to fantasize about as a kid. Like, I'd sit around and be like, what are cool things you could do in a movie that no one's ever done before? And one of them was like, what if you made a movie that was secretly a sequel

to something else and you didn't know until the movie ended? Yes. I always thought that was a cool idea. I'm conflicted about what it means for the movie now. Like, I will certainly say I was very excited by the ending. I don't know if it strengthens the movie. I think it totally strengthens the movie. Before then, I was basically like, look, I love Shyamalan's, again, visual storytelling. What an arresting movie.

Sure. With a lot of interesting elements. What a good performance from McAvoy. And Taylor Joy. And Taylor Joy. And everyone, really. Everyone does a good job. But the two of them are special.

They are. And then, oh, I don't know about that twist. It feels a little too on the nose. It feels a little silly for the subject matter. Weird that this is ending in such a pat way. Yeah, but... And everything's sort of tied up. You know, I saw the happening.

I'm not so shocked that he would do such a thing. Sure. And, like, but I'm, like, essentially I'm thinking, like, okay, you know, maybe you don't feel quite as passionate as I did about The Visit. Right. But in general, I still think, like,

good, Shyamalan's kind of found his mojo again with this sort of a... I like The Visit a lot. I mean, I still think like good, Shaman's kind of found his mojo again with this sort of a... I like the visit a lot. I mean, I like the visit more than this one. That's what I just said. Okay. I just said maybe I don't feel as passionate about it as the visit. I thought you said maybe you don't feel as passionate about it. Anyway, go on. I'm sorry.

No. And then the twist happens and I love all the implications. I love all of the audacity of it. It helps me deal with some of the more problematic elements of the movie because I'm like, oh, I see. We are in a very heightened world here. Sure. But then the hand wave that makes the problematic stuff more palpable

is just going like, well, he's using tropes of a world where they don't care about things and nothing really means anything, so who cares? Yeah. I don't know if I'm nothing really means anything, so who cares? Yeah. I don't know if I'm cool with that. All right, I am. It's 2017. Like, I don't know if I'm cool with that.

It's 2017? That's your argument here? Yeah, I just think there's a fucking cultural responsibility in representing anything on screen now, you know? And I think you're, like, supreme responsibility. I'm very suspicious of that argument that there is. Okay, whatever. You're suspicious of that argument. That there is. Okay, whatever. You're suspicious of that as an argument? In what way?

That every movie needs to be a perfect depiction. I don't think that. I don't think that. Here's the thing. I don't think that. I don't think every movie needs to be a perfect depiction. Cinema has always had schlock that confronts issues in gross or unprofessional or weird ways. Yeah.

And, you know, all kinds of people find all kinds of comfort in that. Like, you know, there's always been genre. There's always been a spectrum of taste. And, like, there's always going to be movies on extreme ends of that taste. I mean, fucking hell, man. Like, there's all kinds of movies that came out this year that do not depict these things with sensitivity or grace, or, you know, what's the word?

Scientific, full scientific understanding. But wouldn't you argue that Elle is trying to wrestle with those issues in a way that you can find problematic? That's fine. Rather than this movie, which is using them as a plot device? If you don't like that, that's fine. I just don't think every movie needs to obey some set of laws. I don't either.

I don't either. I don't think that. Right. But I do think, I don't think every movie has a responsibility to represent everything in the most humane, balanced way. Right. I think you're allowed to show people being bad.

I think you're allowed to show people being bad and not take that to mean that it is symbolic of whatever group that that person belongs to. All people like this are like this person. Right, right. Like, dumb and dumber doesn't argue that all white men are dumb. I don't know. I might argue that. Well, independently, I think all white men are dumb, especially the two of us.

Ben's smart. He's our finest phone crew. But who's dumber? Oh, between the two of us? Me. No question. Yeah, Griffin. Absolutely no question.

You came out a fucking idiot. I don't know. I'm the dumbest person in the world. Eh. But the difference is that there are five bazillion movies about people like Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels, so you don't view that in a microcosm where you're like, well, these are the only 30-something white guys I've ever seen in a movie, so I don't think that all white guys are dumb.

Right. But you go like, DID is not a thing that's in fucking movies unless it's in a horror movie. It's in so many things. Unless it's in this situation. Unless it's like fucking Raising Cain or whatever. What about fucking the United States of Tara? That's the one other instance.

No, there's others with multiple personalities. That's like people have played in that dirty pool forever. It's been happening since before DID was a diagnosis. The point is that the pool is always dirty. Sure.

That it's always either played as a joke, look how crazy they are, or it plays a horror movie, look at how scary they are. Right. I'm sorry. I'm not,

I don't care. For the listener at home, I'm holding my hands up and going, come on. Look, I don't want to be too mean on this podcast,

so I'm not going to really go further on this. Sure. There are groups that are representational, like, you know, that you have to think about in a really serious way. But DID is a really obscure, odd thing. Like, it's not like there's, you know... That makes it all the more,

because it is so obscure, to then just... Your argument is fair. Your argument is very fair. You can't just be like, I just think of someone having DID now and being like, I remember being. Okay, go ahead. I remember being in college and in a class, our teacher saying that he was on the autistic spectrum. Sure. And someone in class went like, oh, like Rain Man?

Sure. And he threw his book down and he was like, not like fucking Rain Man. It sucks. I was born in 1980. Do you understand? I mean, especially with something like that. I can't count matchsticks. It sucks when there is a definitive cinematic version of your illness.

Right, which Split now is. That's not true at all. Come on, man. What would you argue is that- Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. There are so many of them. But Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is about someone drinking a potion. I'm aware that that's what true at all. Come on, man. What would you argue is that- Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. There are so many of them. But Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde is about someone drinking a potion. I'm aware that that's what it's about, but that doesn't mean-

I've got some movies to throw at you guys. Yeah, please, go ahead. Me, myself, and Irene. Yeah. I mean, Jesus Christ, there's so many. I think it falls into the same category of what I'm talking about. Yes, but I'm just saying, you're saying this is some definitive thing. Fight Club.

Yes, there's so many versions of this in movies it's a fucking identity genre trope in the world all of them it's either fucking a horror monster or it's a fucking joke right but you're you're nailing split to the wall and like i think that's because it's the most recent one and i wonder if we should know better at this no i would say also a tv show um mr robot is doing this as. Robot, which did this fucking bullshit last year drove me crazy. But it drove me crazy because it was Lazy Story, though. Because it was, I mean, it was

so lazy that they pretended to know that they were just doing Fight Club again, and I was even more mad because they played fucking Where's My Mind. Don't spoil it. I haven't seen it. In Mr. Robot, when they reveal the twist, they literally do it. What? I didn't see it. You didn't see Mr. Robot? it. I haven't seen it. In Mr. Robot, when they reveal the twist, they literally do it. What?

I didn't see it. You didn't see Mr. Robot? Well, I haven't seen the second season yet. This happens in the first season. When they reveal the twist, which is the Fight Club twist, they literally play Where Is My Mind. Well, fuck that so hard. Exactly. Fuck that so incredibly hard.

Can I throw out my final thing about the movie? I don't think your thing is, what you're saying is out of line. I'm more just pushing back. We're spirited people, you and I. We're not actually fighting. And these are fucking arguments. These are arguments. They're interesting arguments to have.

These are cultural arguments that are ongoing that will continue forever. I am much more distressed by the depiction of a sufferer of child abuse. Okay, so that's the final point I want to get to. Than I am by a more nebulous sort of. abuse. Okay, so that's the final point I want to get to. Than I am by, you know, a more nebulous sort of... Sure. There are a lot of people who might see Split who have suffered abuse

at the hands of a parent. And might find that the film... And find it... Is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant.

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...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant.

...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant. ...is a little flippant....is a I'm not saying splits absolve, but it's not an uncommon term. I don't know if there's a lot of people who have disassociative identity disorder who are going to go see Split. But when you're saying a lot of people who have seen things like this being flip about stuff, that's where I brought up my opening point of if someone showed this to me on a VHS and said,

this is a weird movie that grinded the palm of their hand in 1982. Right, right. I'd go like, well, we shouldn't make that today, but obviously for what it is, I guess it's well done. Right. Right, right. I go like, well, we shouldn't make that today, but obviously for what it is, I guess it's well done. Right. But today it's just like, well, at what point do we say you can keep on doing this just because a lot of people have done it and it's already been done?

I don't know. Probably forever. People are always going to, they're going to try and find new angles on the old shit, right? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, that's what he's doing. Look, if they had explained that James McAvoy drank a magic potion, a la Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I mean, they go halfway to explaining it that way. And I thought they were going to go there.

And if they went there, I would have gone, awesome, cool, thumbs up. Totally down with that section. What do you say? No, I don't care. It doesn't matter. Your only problem with Split seems to be that it is problematic. No, that's not my only problem. Okay. It's your only argument seems to be that it is problematic. No, that's not my only problem. Okay.

It's your only argument you've been making the whole podcast. Because I think that's the most pertinent thing to talk about. But what else? I mean, look, a lot of it is I need to see it a second time. You do. Because I was so thrown off by how differently it played out than I thought it would. Right. And I was leaning forward my chair the whole time

trying to figure out, like, where the fuck is this going? Where's the twist going to be? What's he going to do? How's he going to pull the wool over my eyes? Yes. Where are the misdirects? I want to watch it now knowing everything. Yes.

There were some storytelling things I can't even verbalize where I was like, that's sort of an odd choice. I think, I mean, Joe Reed was sort of vaguely seemed to be talking about this as well, although we didn't talk enough for me to get his full opinion on it. No, I say I can't verbalize it because it wasn't like I was watching a scene and going like, ding, ding, ding. This doesn't work. But I was watching and just going like, somehow it feels like the gears aren't totally clicking.

Gears click for me. Sometimes they did. Clickety click. Sometimes they did. Got him hot. Here's my final point I want to make. Uh-huh. And this was the moment in the movie that kind of ticked me off the most.

The final flashback. As I have been hinting at, okay? All the other flashbacks take place in the one day, the one camping trip. The final flashback takes place at? The funeral. Her father's funeral. Yeah. Presumably sometime later.

Yeah. The father has died. Yeah. Oh, this is that thing. Heart condition, runs in the family. What can you do about it? Well, now you get to come live with me, and you're going to be a nice girl, aren't you?

Sure. And from there on out, the movie now makes it clear, oh, this is not someone who was sexually abused by their uncle once as a child. Right, who is continuing to suffer abuse, yes. Feels incredibly cruel to put that on the fucking character. Sure, sure. When the movie functions just as well.

Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. If it hasn't been systematic abuse. But I mean, I think, like I say, I think the arc he's decided to tell here is, you know, that this is the transformative experience for her to break loose. Right. So he makes a bargain with the devil, essentially. Yeah. Which is in order to get the payoff where the girl

gets to finally take control and fight the demon head on. Yeah. He has to make it that for the last 12 years, whatever it's been, 10 years. Let's say eight to 10 years. Sure, yeah.

I know. I don't disagree with you. It's tough. I mean, talk about a cat, like, you know, trying to cash a check that bounces. And again,

if I was someone who, yeah, I mean, yeah, I think I would find that a tough pill to swallow. It feels like a mean thing to do to your character. Amen. Only so that you can be like, ah, but look at how it all comes full circle.

It's true. Let me make it, in the last five minutes, let me suddenly reveal this character has suffered a thousand times more than you already thought she had. He's not, he likes this. I know he does. I mean, Lady in the Water, a cute children's fantasy, is about a man whose whole family was murdered. In front of him. Which is crazy. And he gave up a career being a doctor because he could never recover from it. This is something he does over and over and over again.

Like, I mean, even signs, like even the more muted versions of the trauma, he can't get over it. They always have a thing they can't get over. Even fucking wide awake. Yes. Like, even though that's just a grandfather dying. Every one of his movies has something that someone can't get over. I'm trying to think. I mean, I guess The Last Airbender.

Apart from that. Yeah, he can't get over the fact that he. That he's The Last Airbender. Yeah. Yeah. And that he's not going to have a family. He does. He's like a skull house. Yeah. And he was, like, frozen forever. He doesn't know anyone anymore.bender? Yeah. Yeah. And that he's not going to have a family. He does use it like a skull house.

Yeah. And he was like frozen forever. He doesn't know anyone anymore. That's his trauma. Yeah. So I don't disagree with you that, yeah, it's brutal. And look, too much paprika in the sandwich. Yeah, I think that's a very kind way of putting it.

Too much paprika in that sandwich. Okay, well that has been M. Night Shyamalan's split. He really, I wish he made a movie every week that we could talk about. I do too. It's really cold for a podcast. There are a few filmmakers more fascinating to delve into than M. Night. Yeah. And he lays it all out on the table.

You know? Yes. Good and bad. It's all sort of there. There's a lot to pick at. And you certainly never watch one of his movies and don't think about him. Yeah. Much like Hitchcock, you feel like, okay, this guy's, his hands are on my shoulders.

Yeah. You know, I'm aware of who's making this film and what he's trying to get at. Agreed, which I love. Yeah. I do too. Yeah. Look, I'd rather watch a bad N. Night Shyamalan movie than a good fucking you know uh uh what's his name i'm trying to think of any number of indispensable directors i'm sorry dispensable disposable directors uh i

was gonna say uh john wells wow damn john wells is really he's crying that guy's a tv director yeah that guy blows he does But I'm saying like a... I totally get what you mean and of course I agree with you. I'm always 10 times more fascinated to see a Wachowski movie or a Shyamalan movie

even if it's a failure or a mixed bag like this is than I am to see a really well done... Who is... I'm trying to think of the perfect example. I was going to...

A Lassie-Halstrom joint. I don't know. He's too bad. Yeah, well, and also Dog's Purpose is turning out to be its own kind of split. What the fuck is happening with Dog's Purpose, man? They were drowning dogs? Can I throw out a... What the fuck?

Can I throw out a potentially controversial opinion very quickly? Sure. After I was the controversial opinion maker. I know, I know. I need to balance the scales a little bit. Go ahead. That scene where they drown the dog in Dog's Purpose which for those of you who don't know Dog's Purpose a bullshit movie that's coming out

some dog movie about a dog keeps on dying and reincarnated as a different dog but always sounds like Josh Gad in Interior Monologue footage leaked out from the set of the movie where they were trying to make the dog swim in fake rapids and the dog looked terrified and they essentially make the dog swim in fake rapids and the dog looked terrified

and they essentially drowned the dog in order to get the shot. And the dog went underwater and they had to swim in and catch it. It was like horrible traumatizing footage, right? They didn't kill the dog for real. No, they didn't. But they put the dog through.

They were not nice to dog. No, they were inhumane in their treatment of the dog to try to get a shot of the dog looking like it was in danger. That's fucked. Yep, it's fucked. It's fucked and scary to watch, okay?

And it only got revealed because of this viral leak. Okay, so this is my potentially too hot to handle take. Do you know when that was shot? October 2015. Who's this fucking good Samaritan whistleblower who filmed that on the day and decided to wait until now to release it? I don't know, Mammon. Maybe he knew it would pop a week before release.

Yeah, isn't that a little bit fucking opportunistic to be like, when can I get the most press traction rather than like, hey, how do I make sure that the people... Because for the last fucking year and a half, this company that does these dogs... That's fair. That trains these stage animals. The argument is you're...

Right, you're not stopping anything. You're not snipping this in the bud. You're just penalizing the box office receipts of this movie, which is, sure, penalize this movie. I don't fucking give a shit. But also, what's the actual problem here? Shitty dog trainers. Stop them immediately.

I agree with you. But at the same time, we live in a viral era. I agree. Whoever leaked the video, fuck you for doing it now. You're a shitty person. Don't think you're a fucking hero. If you were a hero, you would have released it a year and a half ago. I hope one of our listeners writes in and reveals that they were the one who leaked the video.

Well, everybody, this has been our very heated episode. You want to play the monster first game? Yeah. It made two million yesterday. Pretty good, actually. It's pretty good. And I think Triple X, the return return of xander cage did 1.2 it did hearing a lot of things about that one some people are going with the no no no real fun

donnie yen crazy stunts like what a blast and then other people are like what no it's a piece of shit like huh like i got it i'm excited i'm gonna see it this weekend i'm sort of excited to see it like after a real uh dip in interest, I've rebounded a little bit. I'm like, yeah, sure, why not? Give me a go-round with old Xander Cage. I like that Vin does these We're the World franchises, that it's unified, diverse. Don't disagree with that.

Don't disagree with that. I think that's true. I mean, even like Spectrum's sexuality, you know? Yeah, he's got Ruby Rose in there. Yeah, I love it. Sure, sure. I like Vin. I'm going to see it this weekend.

A box office game. Here, let's I like Vin. I'm going to see it this weekend. A box office game. Here, let's play it reverse. Here's my prediction. I think Split does $28 million this weekend. Yeah. It says about right. $25 or somewhere. And I think The Return of Xander Cage does $19.

Yeah. I was happy to see the Dice Cube return. Yeah, me too. And I think I think Hidden Figures has a good hold that'll make like 17

that movie is a goddamn freight train yeah I think Hidden Figures and Triple X are gonna be neck and neck La La Land will make like 13

Rogue One will make like 9 or 10 you know right it's getting close to dethroning Dark Knight as the I think the 6th

highest grossing film it's gonna dethrone it's already dethroned Finding Dory which everyone forgets is think, the sixth highest grossing film It's going to dethrone it. It's already dethroned Finding Dory, which everyone forgets, is one of the ten highest grossing films Ever made.

Ever made. Ever made. Ever made. It's crazy that Finding Dory came out and everyone saw it. Literally everyone saw it. Everyone met

in a big meeting room. I was there, you were there, we were all there. We all went and saw it. And we said, let's never discuss Finding Dory again, ever. Let's never talk about it.

No one invited me. No, you weren't weren't there yeah you were sick that day um i like finding dory more than most people and i never think about finding dory is that a fish movie it is yeah fish one my problem with finding dory anastasio directed it that's what you mean yeah my problem finding dory is that the ending did not work for me and i was so hyped for it i like the very ending i I like the last line, the last shot. But I think the final chase stuff.

Yeah. Escape stuff. Yeah, I agree. I think it's solid though. I give it like a 6.57. Right. I give it more like a 3. Definitely helps

if you're rolling, I bet, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, you got to drop your bean. Or hippie flipping maybe. You got to drop your bean. Yeah.

Got to drop that bean. Get some goo balls. Split. Or hippie flipping, maybe. You gotta drop your bean. Yeah, gotta drop that bean. Get some goo balls. Split. Oh, it's so good. Such a great movie. I don't know how I feel about it. So happy he made it. I'm so happy he's good again.

I mean, like, you know what I mean? Yeah, I know. Just like, fucking Last Airbender and After Earth look like shit. That's the thing. I'm just happy he makes movies that look good. Like, so much shit I'm happy about. Just stop putting yourself into them. And that interview with After Earth, I think it's Mike Ryan,

where Mike Ryan says, like, you know, it's the reviews, and he says, oh, are people digging it? And your heart just kind of breaks for the guy, even though you're like, I'm mad at him for making the movie. God. Yes, I'm happy he's back and look dude's got amazing craft right and it's exciting just to see him um get back to basics crafty crafty focus up you know um i think he's better when he's pulpy i think he's best as sort of a B filmmaker and brings me to a quote I want to read to conclude this episode.

An interview that Evan Sadoff at Birth Movies Death did with Shyamalan back at Fantastic Fest when the movie first screened. Which let me just say, hey. Good job those guys not revealing this twist. Yeah, because people saw this movie in fucking September and no one revealed it. Real kudos. He said, it's slightly off topic, but it was also cool. So you do found footage in The Visit.

At this point in your career, try something so different and nail it. It was exciting for a lot of us fans to see. And Shyamalan's response is, I love it. I'm so weird that way. The bigger the movie, the more money you spend,

you just start to lose your dot, dot, dot. There are so many directors who are so good at that, like Spielberg and Cameron. Obviously, Cameron's the king of what can you do if you have more, but for me, it's always the reverse. What can you do when it's just you and me in this hotel room,

and it turned out this is the opening scene of a movie and something goes on, and you and I figure it out? Right, right, right. Now, we did this miniseries on him with this thesis of kind of like, this guy got doomed by feeling the need to live up to the expectations

of what an M. Night Shyamalan movie was and make them bigger and bigger and bigger. And so often- Got in his own head. Yeah. And so often, I feel like people we cover on this podcast are either going to be people like Spielberg or Cameron- Who are masters of the craft.

And they're peaks and valleys, but they kind of stay at a similar status. And they're all, yeah, they want to have the biggest projects available to them. Right. And they can, yeah. Or people who kind of nosedive at some point. Whether it's the Wachowskis and they nosedive in terms of commercial viability

even if the films are still good. Cameron Crowe where it's both. Or Shyamalan where it was like kind of back and forth on the two.

It's rare, although we always want the uplift at the end to see someone get it back. It's rare that that happens. Agreed. And The Visit at the time we were like, such a weird odd duck movie. It's found. Yeah. Maybe it's an anomaly. Maybe he's it back. It's rare that that happens. And The Visit at the time we were like such

a weird odd duck movie it's found. Maybe it's an anomaly maybe he's not back. It's one of those things where you're like yeah are we just judging this on a different

scale and thus you know it just looks better by comparison or whatever. Whether or not I like Split and I really don't know yet. Four stars. Number one of the year

so far for me. I've only seen one movie. It's the second best movie I've seen. What's the other one? Bright Lights starring Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds. Does that count as a movie? I count as a movie. That's my number one. the year so far for me. I've only seen one movie. It's the second best movie I've seen. What's the other one? Bright Lights starring Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds. Does that count as a movie? I count it as a movie.

That's my number one. Split's number two, though. Right now, my inclination is it's right in the middle of my pack in my Shyamalan rating. That's probably, well, yeah, it's probably the same for me. It's below the big three for me. Yeah. That's where it is, below the big three. Yeah.

You know what the big three is. Lady in the Water. No. Sixth Sense, below the big three. Yeah. You know what the big three is. Lady in the Water. No. Sixth Sense, The Village, and The Visit? Yeah. No, no, no, Sixth Sense, Unbreakable, and The Village. Oh, I thought you liked Unbreakable less than I did. I think I like it less than you, but I still think it's a good move.

Yeah, I mean, Unbreakable, Sixth Sense, Village, Visit, Lady in the Water. I probably like Wide Awake more than I like this. How can you? I'm a sap, I'm a goofball, and I'm a contrarian. Throwing everything in the garbage. Hells yeah, Hipinion. Go ahead. It's nice to see him kind of get his groove back.

Where even if I have problems with this movie, I do think it is the type of movie he should be making. You know? And it feels like, you know, he's going to continue on that track. So it's a nice, who says inner second acts in American life? Good for you, M. Night. Or just Night.

Night. That's what people call him. Well, you know, get on that Reddit. Someone already started a thread for Blankie reactions to Split. I'm sure it's going to be popping the next couple days. A hot spot on the internet is going to be the blankies subreddit. Oh, God. We've got to wrap this up.

We've been going for way too long. Go there. Right there. Next week. Rate, review, subscribe. Next week. Pod me if you cast. We finally.

The lost pod Jurassic cast. It's happening. Yes. An episode recorded months ago. God, when did we even, I don't even remember it was so long ago. Forever ago. I'm excited to hear it. Me too. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, get ready for that. We got a whole mini-series pretty much in the can. It's coming at ya

and you're gonna get blank check without interruption despite the fact that I'm gonna be working. Very interrupted. Working. You're going to be boy interrupted. I'm going to be boy interrupted. We can't have movies that fucking do a bullshit job of portraying mental illness. I've never seen it. Never seen it. Thank you all for listening, reading, and subscribing.

Oh, my God. You already said that shit. Goodbye. And as always. Oh, oh, oh. And as always. And as always. We have a very special treat for our listeners. Oh, yeah. And as always. Here we go, oh. And as always, and as always, we have a very special treat for our listeners.

Oh, yeah. And as always. Here we go. Ben. Ben Hosley. Had not seen the trailer for Split before seeing the movie. Hadn't seen anything. Knew nothing other than.

He just knew his multiple personalities. He saw the post. 23 personalities about to meet the 24th. And Ben, two days ago, recorded a very special segment of On the Record where he tried to predict all 24 personalities. It's long. We're laughing through most of it. But we hope you enjoy it.

Goodbye. Hey, everybody. That's not a good intro. I don't know where this is going to start. This is perfect. This is perfect. This will be hilarious to drop in. God damn it.

Hey, everybody. This is time for the part where Ben makes predictions on the film Split. Right. So we're cutting to this. Yeah, we're going to drop this in. It is Wednesday, January 18th. I'm holding up a newspaper. Yeah.

David's holding. Can you hear it? Okay, that's the newspaper. Great. Wednesday, January 18th. Now, David has seen the movie Split. I did. I saw it last night.

Ben and I will be seeing it about 24 hours hence. Correct. We'll be recording the episode two days from now. And Ben has not even seen the trailer for the movie. Is that right? He hasn't even seen the trailer. He hasn't even seen the trailer. Because the trailer gives away at least three of the personalities.

Right. There are 24 personalities in the movie. Split is about a man who has 23 distinct personalities in one body because he has a totally real disorder that is not fake. And the 24th is about to be unleashed. Now, Ben, what are some predictions that you have for, you don't have to do all 23, but some of the personalities. On the record, let's try to get 23. I'm just going to throw out some of the choicer predictions. Okay.

And I guess I'll make a noise. Ben demanded that I make a noise if he's closer or far. So right off the top, of course, you're going to have a little baby boy. One. Okay. Then you got southern effeminate gentleman just like, oh, child, let me tell you, you're going to be just fine. He can't get you.

Two. Great. Angry young man. Fuck, no one gets it. can't get you. Two. Great. Angry young man. Fuck, no one gets it. Three. All right. Excited creep. Hey, girls. How you doing?

Four. Okay. Very lonely. Sounds like the excited creep again. All right. I didn't organize them good. Damn it. Fuck.

All right. No, it's fine. Carry on. Carry on. That was four. All right. Confused David Byrne. This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife. Damn it. Fuck. All right. No, it's fine. Carry on. Carry on. That was four. All right. Confuse David Byrne. This is not my beautiful house.

This is not my beautiful wife. All right. Six. Closing argument lawyer. Now, you see, that's why I kidnapped you. Seven. Dog. Root.

Eight. Wet hippie. Yeah, man, I'm all drenched. Nine. Soup Nazi. No soup for all drenched. Nine. Soup Nazi. No soup for you. Ten. Bro.

Dude, the thing, though, you got to make sure you do that special dance for me. Eleven. Tom Waits. Great. Twelve. Slam Poet. That's not what a slam poet sounds like. Yeah, come on.

The thing is that you are now mine, girls. 13. Deaf pirate. Arrgh, I can't hear you. 14. Post-game interview. Yeah, but the thing was, I was really just working up a sweat out there. I was trying to do my best for you.

I hope you like this caged-in room you live in now. The personality is a state post-game interview. It is an action. Carry on. Okay, that's 15. 15. Well, I say now, Foghorn Leghorn. Right, just Foghorn Leghorn.

16. No, I'm done. That's it. No, you don't got more? Come on. Man, Ben giving up on a bit. That's a classic Ben bit. You're so close.

You're up to 16, Ben. I know. All right, fine. Fuck. I'll give you a hint. You've only gotten like one. Maybe think a little more basic archetype. Oh, man.

Fine. Like, you know, maybe he's like sort of cranky. He's like, but I don't wanna. All right. 17. Great. Oh, this bit. It didn't run out of gas.

The gas like fell out of the car all at the same time. And then the car exploded. And everyone inside is dead. Come on, Ben. Six more. Oh, God. All right, fine. Oh, my God.

This is a catastrophe. 24 is a gimme. You know you got the purse. I know I got it. Give me six more. All right. All right. Well, hey, I'm just looking for my mama.

No, that's like the baby boy. This bit is even going on too long on this podcast. Nothing can be short. That was 18, Ben. Come on. Okay, fine. How? I'm a Native American.

Oh, 19. Jesus Christ. With a lot of disapproval. I don't like that one either. It is amazing that in Split. I'm running out. Also, you know, thank God there is no characters like a black guy or whatever. They don't go into that. Sausage party bullshit?

Yeah, exactly. Okay. He was like, ay caramba. Like, that doesn't happen. Ben, four more. Four more. Okay. You can use ay caramba if you want.

Yeah. Oh, I'm so Four more. Okay. You can use Icarumba if you want. Yeah. Oh, I'm so out of breath. I was running. 20. Great. Just someone who's running? This is a personality. Distinct personalities.

Okay, and then lastly, wow, what a restful day I've had. 21. You have two more, Ben. Just do two more. Just do two impressions. Okay. Do your best impressions. Do my best impressions.

Was she a great big fat person? Is that Philip Seymour Hoffman? No, it's Ben. Buffalo Bill, right. One more, your second best impression. Oh, fuck, I don. Your second best impression. Fuck, I don't have a... Come on, you got something. I got something.

I got something. Take his face off. It's Nicolas Cage. Nicolas Cage is the 25th person. And then the Beast. Do the Beast. And then the Beast is like... You know, he's like,

Hey, what's up? I'm the Beast. Cool, great. Wow. That has? I'm the Beast. Cool. Great. Wow. That has been Benny on the record. Wow. I can't believe this.

What was that, 25 minutes, Ben? That was a long six minutes. Oh, boy. Try to cut that one down if you can. I think so. I think I'm going to lose a few of them. Anyway. This has been a

UCB comedy production. Check out our other shows on the UCB comedy podcast network.