Blank Check with Griffin & David - Talking Maul Live @ DCM19 with Peter Serafinowicz

Episode Date: August 20, 2017

Live from the 19th annual Del Close Marathon in New York City, Peter Serafinowicz (The Tick) joins Griffin and David for a serious conversation about Peter’s role as the voice of Darth Maul in Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace. This special episode marks a return to the podcast’s early days as exclusively a Star Wars prequels podcast. But what was Peter’s approach to prepare for 4 lines of voice over dialogue? Why weren’t there any songs in the Phantom Menace? Is it Producer Ben’s birthday? Together they discuss wrestling George Lucas, Peter’s upcoming autobiography Maul & Me, the film’s lack of ghosts and answer the Proust Questionnaire. Plus, be sure to watch the debut of the Tick August 25th on Amazon Prime Video!

Blank Check with Griffin and David Blank Check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Check At last we shall reveal ourselves to the podcast Hey, that was great. Hi, everybody. My name's Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims.

This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David where we go through filmographies of directors who had massive success early on in their careers and we're given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. That's what our podcast is now. Right. It's not what our podcast used to be.

Our podcast used to be about one movie and one movie only. The first film in the Phantom Menace trilogy, it is called The Phantom Menace. Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Menace. Phantom. And for 11 episodes, that was the only thing we discussed.

Yeah. 11 beautiful episodes. Somehow discovered that, in fact, other Star Wars movies were made. We went through them, and then we evolved into something different. But for today, for this live episode at the Del Close Marathon, in the loudest room in America, we will be flashing back to Phantom Menace. Yep. With a very special guest.

We're checking a box we never checked. We never got to speak to someone Who was there An instrumental part Of the Phantom Menace On set every day, right? Now we've often said That Sith Lords are not allowed to listen to our podcast

That's true We don't respect their politics They're not allowed to listen But maybe they're allowed to guest? Sure. It's your bylaw. Ladies and gentlemen, here with us in physical form is the vocal form of Darth Maul himself. For a special episode, we're calling Talking Maul.

Peter Serafinowicz, ladies and gentlemen. Hi. Thanks for being here, Peter. Hi. Hello. Oh, it's nice to be here. So, you know, I'm sure for an actor like you with an illustrious career, it's probably frustrating that you have one performance that looms so large

that it is all anyone ever wants to talk about with you. You know, I mean it's like it's asking Brando to do Stella. Right. You know, it's asking Pacino to introduce you to his little friend. So thank you for coming here and, you know, opening it up. I know this is a sensitive protective character for you. Yeah, I mean, well, that's, where do I start? I mean, I'm just about, I'm about a third

of the way through my autobiography at the moment. Writing or reading it? Writing. I mean, it's taken so long. It took me, I'd say it took me two months just to choose the font. Yeah, that's a tough one.

Comic Sans? Is it Comic Sans? Can you give us that as a exclusive? You know, I... How about Courier? I don't want to give any spoilers. Yeah, sure. Oh, shit, Courier, yeah.

It's like typewriter face, you know? Yeah. That interjection, of course, comes from our producer, producer Ben, who you may know better as Birthday Benny, because today is, in fact... Yeah, have I mentioned it's my birthday? His 32nd birthday. Benjamin Hosley, ladies and gentlemen. Wearing the ceremonial birthday sunglasses,

drinking the ceremonial birthday afternoon beer. Producer Benny representing... With a ceremonial birthday hangover. Yeah. How you feeling, Ben? I'm feeling 32 and ready to take the world on. I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 32. Yeah. Hey. Okay. All right. But yeah, it's my birthday. So you can't reveal the font to us, but you've been working on about a third of the way through your autobiography. Yeah, it's called Maul and Me and

it's I think for me it's a chance for me to delineate between the role and myself. Okay, I'm glad you're saying this because I was afraid to kind of touch this with you but I feel like in terms of public perception,

you and Darth Maul are one in the same. Yeah, yeah, of course. It's your Mr. Beam. It's your Pee Wee Herman. You know? You almost don't have an identity outside of it. I don't know how much you fight with that, you lean into it. Do people like scream when they see you in the streets? Yeah, they do.

And I, you know, I have to, i i mean i walk around silently as well most of the time that would be the tip off yeah so so you know i know most people tend to walk around and just talk to themselves constantly and i just don't do that you know i i i have to keep my mouth closed. Yeah. And, yeah, you know, at first I tried to resist it, you know. I tried to resist being sort of swallowed by this character and losing my own identity, and I started to do that. And then I realized, what's the point, you know? Who's Maul and who's me?

to do that. And then I realized, what's the point? Who's Maul? Who's me? And I started, you know, I would put on the makeup and stuff and glue some

Brazil knots to my head with the little horns. Just when I was at home myself. Because to be clear, this is stuff you never did on camera. You no physically play the character no but i wanted to i wanted to know what it what it what it felt like sure sure you know yeah so um so yeah did you carry around a stick did that help with your performance i yeah i carried it into the uh voiceover booth uh cool with me and uh i uh yeah this is a no bits podcast yeah oh yeah there are no bits so we should mention that no there are no bits yeah no bits it's uh also my birthday so it is ben's birthday we should

mention that i don't know if it's been mentioned before a happy birthday oh thanks i mean i wasn't fishing for that but um and i want to ask you you know an actor prepares i mean i feel like that is the real earmark of a great actor is is the preparation the thoroughness and your understanding of the character and how much you come right to the set or you know the recording booth uh-huh booth with a full sort of grasp. So I'm looking at Wikipedia here, which we all know is the preeminent Star Wars Wikipedia. And it says here, you know, in the early life tab of Darth Maul,

the boy who would become known as Darth Maul was born the son of Mother Talzin on Darthamar. As a Darthmarian Zabrek male, he was a knight brother and had two blood brothers, Feral and Savage, oppressed. Now, how much did that factor into... Feral and Savage?

Oppressed. Okay. Which are subtle names. Is he Maul-Oppressed? Yeah, yeah, they are, as is Maul. Yes. Because the connotation there... To be fair, Maul is more subtle than oppressed.

It's like being born and given the name Milkman or something. They're really setting you up. His parents kind of called it a shot. Darth Evil. Savage oppressed. How much were you playing? Because your siblings don't appear

in the film. No. But did you have to play your line readings with an awareness of being one of three children? Yeah, I had to remember what it... I had to try to remember what it would have been like to have been little Derry. As his

friends called him. Derry Maul. Yeah. And yeah, that was it was it was it was difficult it was a difficult couple of years

that I spent in Tunisia I I I just went and I I didn't

I didn't act at all I just was you know and I I opened up a little a little cobblersbbler's shoe shop. Oh, you pulled the Dan Lewis. Well, no.

He took it over from me. Oh, my God. When you decide to start acting, he decides to stop acting. Yeah. Did you give him any cobbling tips? You know what? He just didn't want to know. He didn't want to know. He didn't want to know.

He wanted to start. He likes to learn on the job. Yeah, yeah. Ben is a close personal friend of Dan Lewis, by the way, which is why he called him Dan Lewis. Otherwise, that would be a very bizarre and presumptuous thing to do. Dan and I are old friends. I mean, yeah.

Yeah, okay. He's actually getting back to public. I mean, I do actually know DDL. Oh, cool. Okay. And, you know, quite well. I mean, I haven't seen him for a while. You know, he is going back now to...

Cobbling. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's really expanded as well since his little hiatus. Yeah. He's doing women's shoes now, too. He's got a chain of them. Yeah, right.

He owns Payless. People don't realize that. But Dale Day-Lewis owns the Payless shoes chain. Right. But he doesn't do it for the attention, so he takes his name off of it. You know, it's kind of in the shadows. I guess I realize, I mean, you said that thing about preparing in Tunisia, and I guess I went a little too fast, you know, a little

too deep. Let's talk about the process of getting this role, because as you implied, there were several years between when you got the role and when you actually started work and several years of campaigning before that right yeah yeah that predated even the notion of doing any kind of uh prequel sure sure yeah sure yeah so i believe i mean you had told me that you started preparing for darth maul the second you walked out of seeing the original Star Wars. Yes.

In 1977. That was sort of the start of the process. How old would you have been? I was five. Right. Wow. That's good. And what can I say?

You know, I was a kid. I had big ambitions. Yeah. And I was very spoiled. And I always got what I wanted. Such as to see Star Wars. You wanted to see Star Wars. Yeah. And then number two was to be in Star Wars. Yeah.

You know, when I actually saw Star Wars, my mom took me to see it when I was five, and this is absolutely true. I begged her to go. I didn't beg her. I nagged her for us to go and see it. And after about 20 minutes, I was all fidgety and was saying, please, can we go home? This is so boring.

And I think it was one of those one of those Tarkin scenes which I which I kind of love oh you weren't a fan of Tarkin when I was five sure he's a tyrant

let's not forget yeah not a great guy let's be clear politics are a little fudgy yeah but anyway yeah

you know I I grew to love the film, though. Right. Did it bug you when the sequels came out and you weren't in those either, though? Like, Empire Strikes Back comes around. Well, you know, it bugged me even the first, you know, in the first minute of sitting down in the cinema.

It was like episode four. And it was then that I knew, yeah, but what about episode one? Right. Right. So your goal was very, very focused. It was, I need to be in episode one. I don't know how long it's going to take for me to get there, but I'm going to be part of it. Yeah.

I just want to say that's a really, it's really quite an awkward thing of George Lucas to have done that, isn't it? To start with episode four? Yeah. Yeah. Star Wars, episode four. You know, I know we all know it now, you know, but like, that was it, wasn't it? I mean, they didn't change that, like, retroactively, did they? It was always episode four, wasn't it?

I believe so. It was a pretty arrogant move. Yeah. Because you have all these people sitting down at theater, they go, I think I have all the necessary context to watch this one movie. And then the credits start and you go, wait a second, what the fuck? Do I gotta go back home, rent something

from the library? VHS didn't even exist then. So you go, what, I gotta go home, wait for episodes one through three to come back on TV? I know, have I missed them? And also, you know, the percentage of people who aren't that good with Roman numerals, it's got to be 15%. Right, right, right.

And then, you know, episode 8, episode 6. Right, right. There's that element. And then the other element, too, is episode. I thought I was seeing a movie, not a TV show. You know what I'm saying? This dummy thinks they're called episodes. They're called movies, bro.

It'd be weird if it was called Movie 4. Right? Wouldn't that spook people? That's Movie 43. So you start this campaign. What is Movie 43? It's a movie starring all of Hollywood's brightest stars. Oh, wait. Is this the Farrelly Brothers

thing? Yeah, you got Jackman. Hugh Jackman plays a testicle man. Yeah, that's right. Halle Berry dates Stephen Merchant, I think. I believe Dennis Quaid fucks a phone. I think that's one of the plots of that film. Okay. That he fucks a phone.

What kind of phone is it? I think it's a phone that looks like a lady. I think that was the joke. Okay, so it's a landline. Well, no. a lady i think that was the joke okay so it's a landline well no i think well i you think wait are you saying that landline phones to you remind you of ladies like a cell phone to get clear if it was a mobile phone or if it was just like a hardwired phone i believe it was kind of a newfangled smartphone oh i see oh that looked like a lady i think that was the idea so is it one of those like these phones they're out of control? Yes. Dennis Quaid can

fuck one now? Right. Is that the idea? It's kind of a cautionary tale. It was kind of a precursor to Black Mirror. We're going off on a tangent. Okay, yeah, I'm sorry. We've got to get back on focus. We've got to get back to this interview. I just have to ask one question. Sure. Does the phone still work afterwards? That's a great question, yeah.

We might have to bring you back for a special episode about movie 43. That segment of movie 43 when Dennis played Foxathon. I knocked my glass over, but there's no water in it this time. Okay, so the year is 1977, and you go, I'm going to be in episode one. Yeah. And production of the film does not start until 1997. 20 years.

Right, there's 20 years where you're waiting for production to even start. You're waiting for the word go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so other than spending time in Tunisia, wandering around with a giant stick, what other exercises are you doing to try to find, because do you know the character is going to be Darth Maul, or are you just trying to find a place to fit into this universe?

Yeah, no, I think I had an idea of who he was. Yeah, no, I think I had an idea of who he was. He came to me almost fully fleshed out when I was in a mall. Okay. And they misspelled his name in the titles, which I was very, very upset about. Especially as I'd spent, you know, I'd spent like two or three years, you know, on fonts, really. Right, right.

Just choosing the right font, so, you know, to see a typo. Right. But the font was right. Does it throw off the font, though? If, you know, the name is spelled wrong, maybe now the font looks bad? Yeah, maybe. Did you almost for a second think it was a weird font where sometimes l's look like u's or did you immediately realize that's a typo yeah no no i uh no it was just it was just a mistake yeah it was just a mistake the person the person person was fired. She no longer works in the industry.

Or I believe she doesn't work at all. Yeah, yeah. She's not functioning. It's not like an official thing, but she's essentially been blacklisted from all trades. Right, right. All manners of work. Yeah.

Her face is just up in everyone's eyes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you came to George Lucas with this fully developed character. Yeah. So you hear, okay, episode one's happening, and you immediately said, get me a meeting with Georgie Porgie. I got something to tell him. When do you shave your head and put a hood on? Sorry, what? When do you shave your head and wear a hood? That's a good question, Ben. Why don't I shave your head and put a hood on? Sorry, what? When do you shave your head and wear a hood?

That's a good question, Ben. Why don't I shave my head and wear a hood? Just to get into character again. Did you do any shaved head hood wearing exercises? No. Okay. No, I didn't. It was mostly the stick.

I did. Yeah, it was a lot of stick stuff. stick i did yeah it was it was it was a lot of uh stick stuff i did investigate um with uh i enlisted a doctor and a magician illusionist that i know uh where i wanted to sever my uh towards my upper body from my lower body right i wanted just to see if i could be sliced in half, kept alive, just even for like, you know, 20 days. Just so you could play that moment properly. Yeah.

Because you as a voiceover actor in that moment had to go, ah! Yeah. You want to really sell that from a place of experience. Yeah, sure, sure. You know your stuff, man. I've seen the film a couple times. I think we all have. Can we just take that again? Yeah, man. I've seen the film a couple times. I think we all have.

Can we just take that again? Yeah, great. I mean, I'm sorry. You're with the guy himself. I mean, do you want to do it? Am I putting you on the spot? Yeah. Okay.

He walked into that. It's fine. So tell me how that first meeting with George went. It was fine went it was fine you just said to him here's the deal did you have a sort of presentation were there poster boards, powerpoint I had a

powerpoint that I'd prepared on a CD but CD ROM drives hadn't been invented basically I can't remember how I managed to CD-ROM drives hadn't been invented, basically. I mean, they were... I can't remember how I managed to do mine.

And also PowerPoint as well. And George famously not very into technology, so you're probably going in with all this newfangled stuff. He's a real Luddite. He goes, like, I'm running off a flop. I know, yeah. He lives on a ranch. He lives on a ranch.

He's a simple man of the earth. Did you go to the ranch? He likes old fangled things. Yeah. I don't care how fangled things are. Yeah, you're pretty fangle agnostic. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I didn't go to the ranch. No? No. It's too bad. No. I went to a half-size replica of the ranch where I stayed for a long weekend.

It was just very uncomfortable because the room was just far too small for me. You're a tall man. He's a pioneer model. I mean, for any man. I mean, I could just about get in. But if you could imagine everything being half the size, it makes more

of a difference than you would think because the walls too you know everything the door frames everything and the fixtures too i imagine the sink you can get one hand in even the the food in the fridge oh that's miniaturized i mean you know and i was hungry. I mean, I went bored. There was nothing to do. So at what point in the development process do you decide, oh, I can't physically play this character. I will be taking away from my voice work if I inhabit the character physically. I don't think I've ever decided that. I've never been happy with that decision.

Wow. Okay. So that decision was made for you. That decision was made for you. That decision was made for you. Yeah, it was. I was very, very upset at the time and very overweight as well. Okay.

So it was a little different than their kind of image of the character? Was that sort of the tension? Yeah, I think so. And mine. Right, right, right. But so what? Yeah, right.

Yeah, I was... Yeah, I was very overweight. I was very, you know, what happens to me is my personal hygiene just goes to pot when I'm feeling depressed or frustrated or also just normal as well. Right, right, just in general. Just in general. You kind of dislike hygiene, I think that's fair to say. I just, I don't prioritize it. Sure, over anything.

No. Right, one could say deprioritize it under everything. Yeah, yeah. So this decision is made to have a mostly physical character be played by someone other than the man who has spent two decades developing this character, has written this character, has birthed this character. But fortunately, well, unfortunately, I should say,

I was kind of prepared for this. Oh, wow. What if they insist? What if I'm just not the right fit? Right. In this industry, they go, hey, sometimes we're going in a different direction. Yeah.

And I thought that I'd found the guy. I thought, well, this is the guy. well this is the guy and it was it was probably it was a few years after the first film came out and I was watching Ghostbusters and

and the you know everywhere you went that song Ray Parker Jr right hit song, big song. And I just knew from even without seeing him, just in hearing his voice, I just knew that physically he would be the right fit.

Wow, so you recommended Ray Parker Jr.? Yeah. Ray Parker Sr.'s son. That's right, yeah, that's right. Right. And I don't know what happened. There was some kind of mix-up. Of course, they cast Ray Park,

who it's almost like the phone cut out two-thirds of the way into you reciting the name. Yeah, I think maybe that's what happened, yeah. They got everything but the Ur Jr. Yeah, yeah. I think at home, our phone line was on a paper word scheme and uh i mean on one hand it's nice to know that they were listening because they did take your suggestion they just didn't hear all of your suggestion yeah yeah um i don't know you

know once again i mean tremendous respect for the craft of acting and understand how much it takes out of a person to really embody a character. But I have to ask, in the great tradition of Inside the Actor's Studio, is Darth Maul here with us today? Look on his face is one of delight, just for the listeners. By any chance, is Darth Maul in the party space

of the 19th annual Del Close Marathon in New York City? Yeah, is that him coming through the door right now? Creep. Is he doing a 3 a.m. bit show at the Magnet Theater? He might be. Oh, my God. Ladies and gentlemen, Darth Maul. I'm cowering in terror.

Darth Maul is here with us today. Darth, how are you doing today? I'm sorry. I'm cowering in terror. Darth Maul is here with us today. Darth, how are you doing today? I'm sorry, I just get out. I'm just a little emotional. Sure, sure. Are you going to ask the swear word question, Griffin? Yeah. What's the swear word question?

It's on Inside the Actor's Studio. Mr. Maul? Yes. Based on the, what is it, the query by Benoit Pouveau or whatever. I don't know. I could look it up. Darth, what is your favorite swear word? It's probably shit. It's a classic.

What sound do you love the most? It's a classic. What sound do you love the most? The sound when I unplug the water from my bathtub. Good sound. That's a very satisfying sound. I actually agree with that. Darth.

What noise do you hate? There's two noise questions in this thing? Yeah, it's a little. What noise do I hate? I don't know. I kind of like all noises, really. If I was pushed, I would say bagpipes, but with regret, because they do have a place. Yes, they can be hauntingly beautiful in the right context.

Go ahead. Mr. Maul, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? Such a stupid question. Don't blame me. Blame Bernard Pouveau. Who wrote these questions? There's some fuck named Bernard Pouveau. Who is he?

I don't know. He's hosted a French talk show. He's a host of a French talk show. And then James Lipson just fucking comes in. Oh, this is from inside the actor's studio. He's stealing the questions from someone else. Sorry, Darth. Hold on one second while Peter and I talk.

Some French dude comes up with these ten questions and then Lipton is like, yoink. Right. And just throws him onto his show. Tale of his show. What is Lipton's day job? Like, how do you get that gig? Great question.

He is Dean Emeritus of the Actor's Studio School at Pace University. That's right. All right. So he's... Kind of a figurehead. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, he wrote for some soap operas i'm going through his career right now james he was in some act james lipton we're talking about james lipton yeah okay jimmy lipton apparently he was in france and he was watching what's this guy's name pivot but it's spelled like pivot which is a good for an interviewer you know that you can pivot he can pivot yeah and he decided to steal this guy's bit. Yeah. The Pivot questionnaire. Wow.

Well, apparently Pivot stole it from Proust. So there you go. Marcel Proust. He came up with these questions. Sorry for that side tangent, Mr. Maul. Now I will repeat the question. I thought we'd forgotten the question. Not at all. If God

exists, what would you like to hear? Here's a little twist I'm going to throw on it. What would you like to hear her say? Oh, he's the 21st century. When you get to the pearly gates.

Oh, um... Hurley Gates. Oh. Do you see what I did there? No. Did you hear what he did there? I did. Okay. Yeah. You know what?

I just don't know. I don't know. Thank you. Thank you so much for being with us. That's what God would say. Thanks. Mr. Maul. That's what God would say. I just don't know. I just don't know. I don't know. Thank you. Thank you so much for being with us. That's what God would say. Thanks. Mr. Maul. That's what God would say.

I just don't know. I just don't know. I just don't know. So how long did the entire process of recording your dialogue take? our schedule was probably about a week per word a week per word so it's like say 12 weeks

12 weeks it was important for me and for George and the rest of the Lucasfilm Lucasfilm crew, that every syllable was enunciated correctly. Sure. You know, that the timbre was consistent.

Yeah. And conveyed the correct emotion. Right, right. So acting was important. He wanted the lines to be active, right. So acting was an important... He wanted the lines to be active, is sort of what you're saying? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But in a very sort of macro way, in a kind of analyzing, even down to like one thousandth of a second, he would analyze the waveform, and I would see him looking at it you know, crossing my fingers and then I'd see a little, almost imperceptible shake of his head

at a particular bit of a sine wave that you could almost you couldn't hear, it was almost like a dog hearing a higher pitch I could, I could, we both could you knew going in you know, that's really fascinating because so often in acting there's this sense of

naturalism, getting a rhythm, being in the moment, interacting with another actor. So that kind of presence and immediacy and flow is really important to making dialogue sing. But this kind of macro and micro approach of going over

every syllable one week at a time, it really shows in Phantom Menace because the dialogue has this real organic, naturalistic flow to it from beginning to end. You watch this movie and you go, is this all improvised? It feels so light and off the cuff. You know, it just feels like this is what it sounds like when my friends or I are talking, you know, sitting around with a couple beers. And that's how he did it. I noticed that you called it The Phantom Menace.

Please don't do that. It's Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Menace. I'm sorry. There are two colons there. Yeah. True. Four dots. Yeah.

There's a definite article, too, you're dropping. It's just, it's tempting. I fall into this habit because it's the original Phantom Menace movie. So for me, like, when I saw it, I was just like, this is just the Phantom Menace. This is the Phantom Menace. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then we got the Phantom Menace sequels, obviously.

We have the rest of the Phantom Menace trilogy. Phantom Menace 2, Attack of the Clones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Phantom Menace 3, Revenge of the Phantom. Yeah. Phantom Menace 4, I mean, by then I'd just lost interest, you know? Yeah, yeah. I was disappointed.

My original vision, as is reflected in the title, was that there were going to be a lot more ghosts. A lot more ghosts. Was it just going to be set in a house, the whole thing? Yeah. Did you read that draft? I think I just overheard industry chatter. I mean, it's like a legend in Hollywood, the ghost draft.

What's the size of the ghost? Oh, great question, Ben. Big? They're kind of human-sized. They're traditional ghosts. How moist were the ghosts? How moist? Great question.

Now you're being silly. No, no the ghosts? How moist? Great question. Now you're being silly. No, no, no. It's a serious question. Were they water ghosts? Just to clarify, Ben likes when things are big and he likes when things are wet. He thinks it's stupid

when in movies things are small and dry. Especially when it comes to villains. Yes. I feel like ghosts can be villains. Although not always. For Ben, every villain should be at least 12 feet tall and dripping wet. The mummy is his idea of a nightmare.

Very dry. Too dry. I haven't seen that film yet. I haven't seen... Have you seen A Mummy? A Mummy. No. Never seen A Mummy.

What about just on the street, though? I mean, yeah. And especially, you know, in Egypt, you walk down the street there and, you know, I mean, of course, I've traveled the world. Right, right, right, right. And Egyptian tourists as well. Yes, yes, yes. But, yeah, no, i've never seen a mummy i used to get the mummy and the invisible man confused when i was when i was a kid well the

invisible man wears bandages often that's why yes right yeah yes he does and he sleeps in a sarcophagus and an invisible sarcophagus that he doesn't bother to coat that in bandages he's just like i'll just leave that as an invisible if the guy's invisible and you can't see him, he might be a mummy. We don't know. You know what I'm saying? He also might be a doctor. True. We can't see him.

Yeah. Well, you know, this just jumped out to me. I mean, you were saying you heard the Ghostbusters theme song and immediately thought Ray Parker Jr. is the man to embody this character. Yeah. And then you tell me that your original conception of the project was more Ghost-based. It seems like Ghostbusters had a massive influence on Darth Maul.

So that was really kind of your Rosetta Stone for the character? You know, I've never heard the argument put like that before, but I think Pauline K approached it yeah to an extent uh because that was her final review ever was the phantom menace was it really the movie that did her in it was the last one i don't know yeah what did she give it i think i think she gave him five

bags of popcorn she had moved to a bags of popcorn rating system at that point. Right. Yeah. Because she was doing the Today Show. The latter years were a little rough for Pauline. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not a fan of film critics.

I'm a film critic critic. Oh, my God. I'm a film critic right here. I know. David's a film critic. I know. Yeah. Oh, you came prepared. Yeah. Now, you're very adamant you don't do it for the critics

you do it for the fans you've said that a lot I have and in fact if a critic likes your work you are angry it's not even that they're not the intended audience they're the opposite of what you want as an audience yeah

I will be publicly angry, but privately I will be so thankful and lavish them with praise and gifts. Yeah. Oh, so there's some payola going on. But in utter secrecy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm quite a hypocrite.

Yeah, right. So Ghostbusters sort of was this turning point for you and you figuring out how to make a Star Wars movie. Yeah. You had seen Star Wars

and then some years later you see Ghostbusters and go, well, there are the building blocks. There's the blueprint. Yeah, well, I hope you're not accusing me of plagiarism.

No, no, no. All art is homage, of course. It's, um, I think, you know, I was disappointed with the lack of ghosts. I was disappointed as well that I wanted The Phantom Menace to be live as well.

To be performed live. Every time it was shown in a theater? Well, of course. Mr. Film Critic, there are limitations to that. Practical limitations. I'm here to poke holes. There would be like a company of say five different

companies around the world. Sort of like Rocky Horror. Town has their own Phantom Manor. It's not so ridiculous when you actually just stop to think about it. We don't like to stop to think about things. We're a fast moving podcast. Right. Yeah, I wanted it to be live.

I also, you know, there were no songs. No songs. That is true. Phantom Menace, not a musical. No. Did you pen songs for it? Did you have, like, a trove? I tried to.

Yeah. I'm a pretty terrible, I've got a terrible sense of smell. And for some reason that impacts on my ability to hear music correctly. They're all linked, you know, the nose, the ears. The nose, the ears, yeah. But I had commissioned some songs that I wanted to be in the show that later were released once they'd had the...

Oh, wow. The associated artists had bought... They were originally written for Phantom Menace, but then they were released under their own labels. Yeah. Can you reveal any of those songs to us? Like, you know? From years and years before the release of

The Thousand Men, in some cases. Gangnam Style was probably the first one. I think everyone that's been a theory floating around. And it was originally titled Gungan Style. Yes. That was the little alteration he made.

It was, and the lyrics were in English and they were a lot more racist oh really okay which you know the racism was a thing that did kind of carry on

it filtered through it was such a strong element of the movie. George heard the song and he was like, I like the racism. I'll keep that. Let me just skim off the music. Interesting. Interesting.

Interesting. You had a lot of creative say in this movie. Yes and no. Yes and no. Okay. Do you want to leave it at that? I don't. I just want to leave

it at that. Yes, I did and no, I didn't. Okay. And I mean, it sounds like you and George were each coming to the plate with your own ideas. You seemingly had far more ideas, a greater number of ideas. He had lots of ideas.

I'll give him that. Okay. I'll give him that, yeah. What's he like, George Lucas? He is, he's very, he's very tall. Okay. He's surprisingly tall. Taller than you?

Yeah. Substantially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. He's... Because you Taller than you? Yeah. Substantially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Because you're 6'5"? I'm 6'4". George is probably 7'10", 7'11". I like that. Is he standing far away from everyone?

7'11", yeah. 7'11". He's, I don't knowEleven, right. He's, he's, I don't know, he's quite active. Yeah. I'm not going to say,

like, hyperactive, but like, he had, like, in the mixing studio, he had a, like,

a basketball hoop and was just constantly playing basketball the entire time. Would he ever, like, throw it at your face like the great Santini? Oh, all the time, yeah.

It was horrible. He broke my nose. I don't think we're saying anything that isn't known here, but George Lucas does have a reputation for being one of Hollywood's biggest bad boys. I mean, he is... Yeah, he's a bad boy. He's a troublemaker.

He's a real outsized personality. Yeah, yeah. He's a gregarious guy. Yeah. He murdered a first assistant director. Really? Wow. Apparently. Apparently. He murdered a first assistant director. Really? Wow. Apparently.

Apparently. The rumor says. Right. We have to, you know, allegedly. Yeah, allegedly. He murdered this first assistant. For any reason in particular, or was it just a show of dominance?

Yeah, was it sort of set the tone? All I'm going to say is, he had his reasons. Wow. Okay. his reasons. Wow. Okay. Reasons. Wow. Yeah.

So you're coming, you're two big personalities, you have a lot of big ideas for the movie. How did you work together? Was there tension there? Were you clashing? I mean, you know, it seems like a lot of your ideas

ultimately didn't make the final cut, so I wonder how much of that was an organic process or a fight over what ended up making it in Can you repeat the question? Sure. I didn't make a entertainment Did you and George fight a lot? Yeah we did

we did. I mean that was probably the main thing that we did was fight and we were constantly thinking of new ways to fight. It started out as just verbal insults, and then insults, like not speaking to each other, so insults by proxy, like through somebody else,

and then what is now called shade. We would throw some of that about. We would also, and then we would physically fight. We would arm wrestle. Then we would wrestle, wrestle, or rassle. Sure. First you wrestled and then rassled. Wrestle, is that what it is?

Well, I think they're two separate things. Wrestling, that's Greco-Roman. And then rassling, that's sort of a little more informal. Oh, right, okay. No, I think we wrestled, then we wrestled. Oh, fair enough, fair enough. Okay. wrestling greco-roman and the wrestling that's sort of a little more informal oh right okay no i think we we wrestled then we wrestled oh fair enough fair enough okay yeah and sometimes then we'd wrestle again but then you know and then we do then we do other things we challenge each other to like dangerous uh high speed uh car races games of chicken yeah yeah, do you play with chicken? You would play with each other. Yeah. And he even organized a jousting tournament for us one Sunday afternoon. Just the two of you?

No, no, no. Oh. No, no. I mean, well, there were other events. Sure, sure. But ours was the main event. Okay. And there were 25,000 people there, all in costume.

Really? I mean, the budget for this thing was just incredible. Wow. Was it with horses or were you on motorcycles? It was elephants because I know it sounds weird. How is that going to

work? It did. It did. I wouldn't do it again. So did you un-elephant him, un-horse him? I don't know what the word is if they're not on a horse. We didn't realize that the two elephants were a couple who had been together for 45 years. That's a great story.

That is a lovely story. But fortunately, they really hated each other. So that didn't affect the fight. It made it sort of more brutal and vicious. Both elephants died. And one elephant died and then George killed the other one because he lost. It's in the past.

Yeah, it's in the past now. I'm not supposed to talk about it, actually. Oh, fair enough. We can cut all of that out. Ben, can you cut that out? Yeah, they'll do that. I think we're running talk about it, actually. Oh, fair enough. We can cut all of that out. Ben, can you cut that out? Oh, yeah. They'll do that. I think we're running out of time, Griff.

We're running out of time. Any other questions you wanted to ask? Yeah, I mean, I guess we're going to tiptoe into spoiler territory a little bit here. But as implied by some of your earlier comments, Darth Maul does die in this film. That's a statement. I was first checking for your response to that, and then I was going to lead into the question. Yeah, that's a statement.

I'm not saying whether it's an erroneous statement. Fair enough. Okay. You're just putting that out there. He does get chopped in half and fall down a chute. Yeah. All right. Do you know what? I'm going to say one word.

Earthworm. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. So in your mind, Darth Maul falls down that chute for however long. Yeah. And then slowly. It's about a year.

Did you throw yourself down any chutes in preparation? No, I did afterwards. I did afterwards. I guess, what would you call that? Postporation? Yeah. Postporation. Yeah, I postporated.

And also, I had to prepare these chutes, you know, which were, you know, I was no... That was the thing. It took a long time. Yeah, it did. What would you like to think is Darth Maul's lasting legacy? How he's impacted the culture at large? at large? I would probably say his greatest gift

to culture and, you know, broadly mankind would be the Beatles. Yeah, you're right about that. Yeah. It's funny we didn't ask you about his involvement with the Beatles in this episode. Because a lot of people talk about

who's the fifth Beatle. There's a lot of talk about, oh, who's the fifth Beatle? There's a lot of questions about, oh, was it Pete Best? Right, Stuart Sutcliffe. You know? Yeah. People don't talk about, oh, right, Darth Maul was the first Beatle.

Yeah. He was the first one before the other guys even hit the stage. And he was the last Beatle, too. He was also the last Beatle. Yeah. He was the bookend Beatle. Do you want to plug the tick, Griffin? or are we oh yeah speaking of beetles oh yeah

oh yeah we're on a show where we play insects that's right yeah a couple of bugs next to me yeah yeah uh it's called the tick it's called the tech you play the tech i play the tech and uh you play author i play arthur play Arthur, who's a mothman. I'm a little mothboy, I would say, more appropriately, probably. I don't think he's been part of Mitzvahed yet. He's still a mothboy. Yeah, and it's out in August. August 25th on Prime Video.

It's a great company, Amazon. What a great company Prime Video. Yeah. It's a great company, Amazon. What a great company. Yeah. Yeah. It sounded sarcastic just now. It's not. No, no, no. Come on.

We can do bits all day. Yeah. But this is a No Bits podcast, and we need to be very serious about this. Oh, yeah, that sounded really sarcastic. Yeah. And it really is my birthday. Yeah, right. No Bits. What's that on the record? No Bits. It's is my birthday. Yeah, right. No bits. What's that on the record?

No bits. It's really my birthday. Happy birthday, Ben. Thank you. You're welcome. I just wasn't sure if I mentioned it. We've got some birthday greetings going on over here. So, sorry. My final question, Peter, would be to all the mall heads out there,

the mall rats. The Darthys. The Darthys, right? Yeah. These die The Darthys. The Darthys, right? Yeah. These diehard Darth fans. What would you say to them to sell them on the tick? People who only know you as Darth Maul. Why should they watch the tick?

And try to accept you as another character for the first time. I'd be lying if I said that Darth Maul could could recommend something other than Star Wars Episode I The Phantom Menace you're asking the wrong guy okay

do you want to ask just Peter? yeah Peter yes hello is there anything you could say to Darth Maul, fans out there, fans and friends, friends of Darth Maul? Friends. Well, please watch the show,

because we've put a lot into it, haven't we? I don't know. I feel like it's been pretty easy to make. He's a tired boy, Griffin Newman. That's all I know. I feel like it's been pretty easy to make. He's a tired boy, Griffin Newman. I feel like my favorite part of the show is how much sleep I get at night. Yeah. Also, general body comfort.

Yeah. Please watch it. So our efforts haven't been in vain. It's good, though. I think it's a very good show. I think it's good. Made out of literal blood and sweat and tears. Yeah.

Emphasis on the sweat. Yeah. For me, it's more emphasis on my skeleton. I'm getting my replacement skeleton this week. Oh, thank God. That's great. Getting new bones. New bones.

Yeah. Amazon's great about that. They break their actors, but they always fix them. That's good. That's nice. Getting new bones. New bones. Yeah. Amazon's great about that. They break their actors, but they always fix them. That's good. That's nice to know. Well, thank you so much for being here on the show. You're welcome so much. It was an amazing insight into, you know, the process and the backstory behind, let's

say, probably the greatest character in the history of American cinema. Oh, please. Truly. No, but I'm not alone in saying that. It's not just cinema. It's not just cinema. It's not just cinema. Western pop culture. Yeah. Sure. Storytelling. I don't even think Western, but I'm not alone in saying that. It's not just cinema. Western pop culture.

Yeah, sure. Storytelling. I don't even think Western, but anyway. Human thought. Thank you so much for being here. You're welcome so much. Thanks to the handful of people who came out to this. Thanks to everyone who's listening to it later.

Big thumbs up to this group. Look around you. Great show. Which direction? Which left, right? I'm sorry. Where are we looking? Happy birthday to Ben.

Yeah, that's the real reason we're all here today. Happy birthday. Thank you. Thank you so much. And as always, you know, aim big. Aim big? Aim big,

because you might someday end up getting to be in episode one as well yeah thanks guys thank you