Blank Check with Griffin & David - Terms of Endearment with Valorie Curry

Episode Date: March 18, 2018

This week Blank Check starts a new mini series reviewing the filmography of director James L. Brooks. And joining Griffin and David on today’s episode is Valorie Curry (The Tick) to discuss the 1983 Academy Award winning debut drama, Terms of Endearment. But what 2 movies made over 100 million dollars that year? How has John Lithgow aged? Is it true that when little boys are impatient they don’t get dessert? Together they examine the career’s of Debra Winger and Shirley MacLaine, the invention of the bum astronaut character, the name Flap and Brooks’ background in television. Plus, reports from the Burger Report™ hotline (802-8-BURGER). This episode is sponsored by Hims (forhims.com/check) and Casper (casper.com/check PROMO: CHECK).

why should i be happy about being a podcast i I don't know what the word is there. Bad one. Okay, I'm going to do a different one. That's not good. It's past 10. My daughter is in pain. I don't understand why she has to have this pain. All she has to do is hold out until 10,

and it's past 10. My daughter is in pain. Can't you understand that? Give my daughter the podcast. Yeah, that's good. There we go. Wow. Yeah.

He leaned into that. He did. He really did. You can't say those lines and not lean into it because nobody's ever going to lean into it half as much as she does. And I had something to prove, too, because I'd fucked up the first quote, which we're keeping in Ben Keepitin. I also had no idea what was happening at all.

This was all. You have never heard the podcast before. No, I have never heard the podcast. Get ready. It was a glorious surprise. Lunch of business. Hello, everybody. My name's Griffin Newman.

I am David Sims. And this is a podcast that our guests has never listened to called... Like Check. With Griffin and David. We're hashtag the two friends. Here are some lessons for you. FYI, we are the two friends. We're the two friends because we are friends.

There are two of us and we host a podcast together. Now, what's interesting is that this is a competitive advantage. Okay. Podcasts still in emerging market. No one else has cracked this yet. Oh. To have two friends. Two friends on a podcast together.

He's going to do all his bits on you now. No. Because they're all new to you. I can see. And there's a lot of facial expression that's accompanying this that I'm not used to. It's really animated. The expression is pride.

Sure. We're also consul as a context. Uh-huh. That's why I've got this computer here. He's got a computer The expression is pride. Sure. We're also concerts of context. Uh-huh. That's why I've got this computer here. He's got a computer to look stuff up. And this is a podcast about directors, filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks, underlined, bold, italicized, to make whatever crazy fashion projects they want.

Sometimes the check's clear. And in this case, they did. Clearly crazy.'s clear. In this case, they did. Clearly crazy. And then sometimes, four movies later, they bounce, maybe. Right. Five, three, three.

We can argue. Yeah, we can argue. Everyone agrees it bounces eventually. Different people pick different. The check bounces for the, I don't know. Right. His check turns into Tigger.

Yeah, his check gets very bouncy. Yes. Yeah. This, of course, the man we're talking about. Because cracking off a new miniseries, it's the films of James L. Brooks. And it's a miniseries that I'm excited to announce. It's called- No, don't you do it.

As pot as it casts. It's called Podcast News. That's what it's called. I don't know about that. And do you know what James L. Brooks' middle name is? It's the same as my middle name. L? Lawrence? Hey, I get some

friend points for remembering. David L. Sin. Yeah. And we've talked about our past guest and future guest and friend, Lux Alptrom. Sure. Coined the term the guarantor, which is the movie, the success that gives the director the blank check going forward.

And this is a weird case where it's the one. His debut film was the guarantor. Right. And also his years in television. Right. Yeah. Right. But he had to fight.

He had to fight to get a movie made. I guess so. Sure. And we'll discuss that. Do you know that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But first, let's introduce our guest who talked before we introduced her, which is exactly what we like a guest to do on this show. She is an actress.

Mm-hmm. She is the best fake sister in the business. Aww. Something my real sister gets very competitive about. You did meet briefly. Yes. And she was nice to you. Well. Romley is very intimidating she's very intimidating yeah I mean Griffin sort of um he set up an animosity really early on

I didn't set up she felt it immediately I I mean that has to be coming from you though I think you're the one making her feel threatened when my my sister was very young, Valerie Kerr is our guest, by the way, from The Following. Yeah. Oh, yes. From The Tick. Yeah. Amazon Prime.

February 23rd. Season two. We'll be shooting at the time this comes out. 1B, February 23rd. This episode's coming out five years from now. Oh, well, I hope you liked it. I hope so, too. That'd be awesome.

But if not, doesn't matter. No. Season two coming no matter what we got it already it's already done you can't take it back for us and i say that with the confidence of someone who has never been on a tv show that was unrenewed right that's the thing about you yeah where even when the official announcement came down like one of my friends was like oh gr must be happy to hear that and I was like yes but he was actually on a show that was announced to be renewed and then they took it back

got yoinked pretty hard is that true? yeah that happened to vinyl that was on vinyl that's happened like four times in TV history four times

they announced season two they fired the showrunners messy I shouldn't laugh messy right brought on a whole new team had them staff a whole new writer's room,

started breaking the season, were writing scripts, and then went, eh, never mind. Well, at least you're tanking the entire show, not just like your character. Yoink. Your casting. Well, that's the thing.

Season two was supposed to be me in the spotlight. Everyone knew Casper, the A&R rep who had four lines across 10 episodes, was clearly being primed for the spotlight in season two. And I think that's what HBO, they got scared because it was such a dramatic shift. It was like a Narcos type focus shift. Oh, sure.

A new protagonist. Whereas in the Tick season two, you're being heavily backgrounded, right? Yes, yes, right, yes. Right. Season two, I have a cold. You're sure. For 10 consecutive episodes,

and it's just Dot and Tick. Yeah, we cut to you in a rocking chair with a blanket over your legs once in a while. Yeah. So this movie is insane. It's insane. Have we announced what the movie is? It's called Terms of Endearment. It was his first film.

It's his first film, and he won three Oscars for it. That's true. It was the second highest grossing film of its year behind Return of the Jedi. Right. That one was number one. Right. But so like for perspective

what if Lady Bird was the number two film of the year behind The Last Jedi? Right. That's exactly how you want to think about it. And everyone's like

yeah two blockbusters. Yeah. Here are two blockbusters. It was above Flashdance Trading Places War Games Octopussy it's a bond movie sudden impact that's a dirty harry movie isn't it yeah right yeah that is yeah staying alive

the sequel to saturday night live it's a saturday night live movie saturday night fever risky business like vacation yeah like these are movies that are talking about like five of the biggest box office stars of all time. Scarface. It just trounced these movies. Ran laps. It did. Nothing came close. And this was in an era

where very few movies made a hundred million dollars. Only two movies that year made a hundred million dollars. Return of the Jedi and Terms of Endearment. I'll be the I'll be the token feminist

now that points out how many of those other movies that you named featured female leads because that's one of the things that makes this really yeah flash dance we got fucking flash dance

you got that one point you you give us Shirley MacLaine we will come that's the thing I'm now going down being like what's the

so flash dance number three okay I'm still going we have been teaching Yentl number 18 Yentl and Barbara. Unless Mr. Mom counts.

I don't know where you are. No. No. I don't know. Mr. Mom, guys. We've been teaching you guys forever. Yeah. Right.

The market is eager. And this was over 30 years ago. This was like 35 years ago and still people are reticent to Greenlight these types of movies. Larry McMurdy, the most sensitive of the cowboy novelists. Right, the poet of Texas. Who has one of the best track records in terms of his work being adapted of any novelist ever. Sure. He's written a ton of books.

Yeah. So many books. You go HUD, Last Picture Show written a ton of books. Yeah. So many books. You go, Hud, Last Picture Show, Terms of Endearment, Lonesome Dove, which is a TV show, but, you know. And then the one time he decides to adapt someone else's work, it's Brokeback Mountain.

Have you ever, like, seen him? Like, he's a gruff man. Yeah, but in a kind of adorable way. I want to hug him when I see him. But he also has the evening star. You can't discount that. We'll talk about the evening star. And Texas Bill.

Two of his movies were given sequels, bizarre sequels. Yeah, that people don't remember existed. Exist, yes. Anyway, we'll get to all that. Anyway, Larry McMurtry, he wrote a novel, Terms of Endearment. Popular? I guess so, yeah. I don't know anything about it.

Have you read it? No. It's so, yeah. I don't know anything about it. Have you read it? No. Yeah. I don't think it was like a love story where everyone was like, wait until they adapt this. I think it was like a respected novel. I'm looking it up now. Sure. 1975.

So yeah, it's been around. Here's the New York Times review of it. Very winning. Okay. All right. Farcical and realistic. Farc i guess i don't know i don't know i'll give it to him uh but but there's a guy waiting in the wings old canyon jim himself james lawrence brooks yes who has had this miracle run going from journalism, working in broadcast news,

hint, hint, hint, wink, wink, wink, wink. Sure, right. To then moving into TV writing, comedy writing, to then becoming a powerhouse showrunner and creator. Mary Tyler Moore. Right. Taxi. Yes.

But a huge. Rhoda. Yes. Lou Grant. Not that. It's Lady Things. Yeah. Right? but but a huge yes lou grant yeah it's a lady things yeah right no but mary tyler moore was like huge at its time for being like here is a single unmarried woman working yeah in her 40s what yeah insane how they designated as science fiction very likable very likable right and compensate and she was gonna make it after all.

She was. Right. It's sort of like when they give a villain in a superhero movie one likable trait. It's like, here's the most evil creature that's ever existed. Single, unmarried woman. But also, look at how well she throws her hat in the air. Throws that hat. Yeah.

He's itching to make pictures. He wants to make motion pictures. Is that, like, yeah. Well, he produced and wrote Thursday's game. he's itching to make pictures he wants to make motion pictures is that like yeah well he produced and wrote Thursday's Game not Tuesday's Game

a movie a secret movie that I love it was a TV movie that was done for a bunch of years starring Gene Wilder and Bob Newhart as two guys

who have a weekly poker game that they get pushed out of and instead just decide to hang out every Thursday and essentially have like this is like your movie. It's lovely.

This is a perfect They just have friend dates every Thursday and their wives think that they're having affairs but really it's just like they're really stressed out sad men

and they find one other person they can like relate to on a friend level. Cloris Leachman Ellen Burstyn Oh my god. You're right. Those are the wives.

Valerie Harper's in it. Yeah, it's got an insane cast. Rob Reiner's in it. Rob Reiner. This was a TV movie? TV movie. It was a TV movie. What network was this?

ABC. And you know, those are back in the days. People watched TV movies. Yeah. And I think that was like a favor for James L. Brooks giving them so many successes that they were like, fine, you make your little movie. He didn't get to direct it. No.

Then he writes Starting Over. Oh, oh my God, I should have been. Yes, starting in 1979. Right. A Pakula movie. Which is a solid hit. With Jill Kleberg and Candice Bergen. Yes.

Ladies. Ladies. Ladies. He likes ladies. Sure. And Brassy Broads. Brooks's Brassy Broads. We call them Brooks's Brassy Broads. Brooks's Brassy Broads. We call them Brooks's Brassy Broads.

Ben is shaking his head at Brooks's Brassy Broads. Do you want to introduce Ben for Valerie? Oh, yes. Ben, this is Valerie. We met because you were both late. Yes, yes. We were both late. I was barely late, I want to point out.

Okay. Wow. I'm not getting any help on that one. Yeah, you're too busy getting food. I was too late, I want to point out. Okay. Wow. I'm not getting any help on that one. Yeah, you're too busy getting food. I was too busy getting food, so I would not be an asshole on this recording. Okay. Right? You know what I'm like when I'm hungry?

Hey. Hey. Calm down. I've started something. This is getting way too political. Okay. This is getting too political. Uh-huh.

And we have to nip it in the butt, okay? Valerie, this is Ben. Hi. Hi. Hi. A.K.A. Producer Ben. A.K.A. The Ben-Ducer. A.K.A. Produer Ben. A.K.A. The Poet Laureate.

This is going to go on for a while. A.K.A. Mr. Positive. A.K.A. Mr. Hossitive. He's doing it off the dome. A.K.A. The Tiebreaker. A.K.A. The Peeper. A.K.A. Hello Fennel. A.K.A. The Meat Lover.

No ginger jokes? No ginger names? Soaking Wet Benny. Red Hot Benny. Red Hot Benny. Dirt Bike Benny. That's a ginger name. He's our finest film Soaking Wet Benny, Red Hot Benny. Red Hot Benny. Dirt Bike Benny. That's a ginger name. He's our finest film critic.

He's a close personal friend of Dan Lewis. That is true. He's graduated to certain titles over the course of different miniseries such as Kylo Ben, Producer Ben Kenobi,

Ben Knight Shyamalan, Ben Say Bennything dot dot dot, Ailey Benz with a dollar sign, War Haas, Purdue Urbane, Purdue Urbane, Ben 19 the Fennel Maker, and... Robo Haas. There you go go i thought i knew you now you know that's why i want to do the introduction now you really do i keep jumping

the gun now we've done all the dumb shit we have to do dumb shit out of the way serious conversation not dumb oh very serious very serious let's talk about brooks'sassy Broads. We're getting serious now. We've done some genre, well, yeah, a few genre directors. I wanted to do, you know, someone who makes slightly more grounded movies. Human films. Yeah, and he is one of those rare examples of that guy who also got, you know, crazy blank checks to make weird movies that sometimes did not work out. Right, but this is off of the success of all of his shows, off of the success of Starting Over. weird movies that sometimes did not work out. Right. But this is off of the success of all of his shows, off of the success of starting over.

They finally let him make a little picture. Yeah. $8 million budget. I'm sure they viewed this as a throwaway. Why not? A programmer. Who cares? I guess so.

But they did release it in December. So, I mean, clearly, once they saw it, I guess they were like, okay, this looks fucking good. Right. Because the guy fucking hits it out of the park. With T.A.V.? Yeah. And immediately, he's like, now a brand name as a filmmaker. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, how many

filmmakers have won the Best Picture Director for their debut? It's a rare feat. Sam Mendes. Sam Mendes. That's one. Robert Redford. That was his debut? Yeah. Ordinary People? Yeah. Alright, maybe there's a few more. Is it Costner one? Oh my god. The 80s, weirdly

they did this a bunch. Yeah. Alright, alright. Anyway. Valerie, when did you see this movie first? I saw this movie first not long ago. It was about actually five years ago I think. And I was

on an airplane and I was like, I've never seen this movie. This is supposed to be one of the good movies. And, you know, the five good movies. One of the five good movies ever made. And I put it on and I immediately realized that I had made a huge mistake because this was the wrong context. The similar experience I had was when I tried to watch Moonlight

on my iPad on the treadmill. Uh-huh, uh-huh. It got worse every time. Moonlight on your iPad on the treadmill. On the treadmill. And I had to stop because I was so ashamed on so many levels. Did you set the incline to be steeper as each chapter progressed and his struggle to find himself, his identity became greater?

If I'm totally honest with you, about 10 minutes in, I turned it off and I realized that I didn't have any more episodes of Vikings. So I was just not going to do cardio that day. I do. I tune. I need something to watch. Your exercise is conditional to having good content. It's a reward-based system. That's how I get through a lot of shows

is I will only allow myself to watch them. Like the OA was that way. So I did a lot of cardio that week because I can only watch it when I'm doing that. Yep, me too. I need to start doing this. I'm trying to get in a season two shape. What shape?

That's the point. I'm trying to buck the trend from season one. Old tired grip. Do you think if your body was like a humming machine, you'd be a better actor? I don't think my body will ever be a humming machine. Humming machine. I think I have a lot stacked against me genetically. Your body is like a jalopy.

My body is a sloppy old jalopy. Yeah, right. It's a puttering Mickey Mouse car. Well, we made the same joke different sides. We did almost kill you. Yes, that's true. You almost died. You can attest to that. We can talk about that now. Yeah, right. Well, we made the same joke different sides. We did almost kill you. Yes, that's true. You almost died. And you can attest to that.

We can talk about that now. Yeah, behind the scenes. This is a good place to talk about it. This is a great place to talk about it. I almost died a couple times. And, you know, the character of Arthur is chubby. And when I was cast. Oh, that's true.

I mean, originally. Yes. Right, in the cartoon and stuff. He's got like a belly, right? He's got a belly. He's a little more rotund. That's the thing. Because the thing with Arthur is his face is a little round. He's got a big belly, right? He's got a belly. He's a little more rotund. That's the thing. Because the thing with Arthur is his face is a little round.

He's got a big belly. But then his arms and legs are really fit. Because the idea is he's doing a lot of running and swinging. Right. He's got abs. It depends on the drawing. All right. But he's got a tummy.

And pecs. It's a weird body that would be very hard to develop. Right. Yeah, you're right. You're right. But when I was cast and there was only a photo out, people, like, complained online. And I, of course, read them because I hate myself. Oh, yeah?

People complained online. So I gained some weight. And I was like, everyone's going to fucking laud me for gaining the weight. Did you really? I did. He's an idiot. I'm a moron. And no one ever acknowledged it which means that

most people didn't notice and the people who know us were like we shouldn't talk about this well you did lose 20 pounds i did in like one episode there's an episode where i lose 20 where i go around a corner and i come back and i'm 20 pounds lighter because i almost died usually that's actors season two bodies but if you're on a show that got renewed you'd know. Right that's my goal is to get as close to death as I can before the season starts so I look good but then don't die while we're filming.

That's my big strategy. Anyway this is what I was going to say. We're slightly off topic. I don't think so. Moonlight I start crying within like five minutes of that movie. I find that film very overpowering. In terms of endearment you said you watched it on a plane and immediately realized it was a mistake. Does this movie start activating you emotionally that early on? Yes.

Wow, okay. I mean, well, I said to you before we even started, but the line that killed me, it's two things. It's this one line in the opening, and it's also just Debra Winger's performance. Yeah. Which I have never seen anything like it um honestly i can't really relate it to anything i describe this as she's so natural there's a sense of like this could be it could be improvisational it could not you don't know it's as if she is just a person who wandered onto a set and they were like she's doing

interesting things let's put the camera on her. She's her human energy. Very. Yes. But no, the line, you are not special enough to overcome a bad marriage. It's a great line. Yeah. It's a great line as written. And also, if someone delivered that line to me, I'd have to go on vacation for a month and not talk to anyone. Yeah.

And this movie is full of those. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's his specialty. That's like the arrow to the heart. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's his specialty. That's like the arrow to the heart. Just to start. Like, you're gonna,

you will be cracked open for the rest of this film. Right. This movie, A, I will say, and I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass here, but I re-watched it.

I only, I saw it for the first time maybe two or three years ago on Netflix. Having been a James L. Brooks fan, but being like, oh, it's weird. I've never seen that one. And it is three years ago on Netflix, having been a James Earl Brooks fan, but being like, oh, it's weird, I've never seen that one. And it is kind of a hammer punch,

but I do think what's kind of impressive about this movie is it, spoiler alert, unlike most quote-unquote cancer movies, it is not structured like a cancer movie until it is. I had avoided this movie for years because I knew of it as a cancer movie. I always thought it was going to be two hours of someone slowly dying. See, I actually always thought this was like

toxic mother-daughter relationship movie. Right. I also thought that they were much more opposed than they turned out to be. Those were the two things I thought it was going to be.

She gets diagnosed ten minutes in. I didn't realize that they move away from each other almost immediately. Right. My mind's eye version of the movie was she's diagnosed 10 minutes in, and then it's a mother and a daughter fighting

while she dies of cancer. And I was like, that sounds rough. I know that's supposed to be good, but that sounds rough. It sounded like one of those emotional ringer movies where, right, in the end you're almost exhausted, but it's so powerful. I mean, this is kind of like a companion film to Beaches,

if Beaches is like the more commercial, likable character. That's what I was going to say. I thought this was going to be Beaches. Beaches is like slightly wackier, but yes. But instead it's like, what's kind of fascinating about this movie is. this has DeVito and Beaches as Hoskins.

They both have like diminutive love interests. I mean, DeVito is obviously not crucial. They both have hairy eggs in them. I mean, the men in this film. Yeah. It's quite a group of guys.

Just Jeff Daniels name. Yeah. Flap. Flap Horton. This is when Jeff Daniels. That's like a Palin. Flap Horton. This is when Jeff Daniels... That's like a Palin name. It's true. This is when Jeff Daniels is at like peak golden retriever.

Yes. When he's just trying so hard but he keeps on pissing. But he's a bad golden retriever. Because he keeps on pissing on the rug. Right. He's a shitty golden retriever. Your furniture's all messed up. He's not house trained.

But they're all shitty people. This is his second movie, Jeff Daniels. What was his first? Ragtime, which is his debut, where he's sort of like a hot young face. And Lithgow only had sort of gotten big in the couple years before this. This is the year after Winger does Officer and a Gentleman. Like outside of McLean, these are a lot of like new people for the big screen. Right.

People who are just kind of starting off but everyone's so perfectly cast and the movie is for like the first 75 85 percent just the story of these two lives without any sort of foreboding like cloud on top of it like it just feels like you're watching like boyhood or something you know it's just like here are these people over the years and their relationships and the changes. So then when like the fucking hammer drop happens, it's devastating because it's not a movie where you're sitting there going like, oh fuck, just how,

how much longer? It's really not a sentimental movie. It's an, it's an incredibly unsentimental movie for a cancer film. I mean, even the moments that make me cry so much are because they lack sentimentality. Like her, we're jumping to the end,

but like her goodbye to her sons and things like that. It's just, I know. Even her death, I didn't know she had passed. No, that scene is so impressive. I watched that scene and I was like, did she just give her a shot? Did she just put, was she just murdered by the nurse? What happened here?

I wasn't sure what had taken place. Yeah. It is such an understated movie that is just so fucking exquisitely observed in like every fucking moment. So the opening scene. Before the cancer. Yeah. He does this thing I love. So already I'm just like so on board with this movie where after the black and the opening

company titles, then it's just that little nightlight in the corner. Do you know what I'm talking about? The first shot of the movie is you just see the nightlight and the rest of the screen is black. So if you weren't paying attention you would almost think maybe the movie still wasn't starting yet.

And you just hear Shirley MacLaine freaking out about the baby. It's crib death. Right. It's crib death. Right, so you're like, okay, this is an intense woman, but it's entirely directed

at protecting her daughter now. When she almost gets in in her high heels and then she retracts. In that pink dress, yes. And he's doing, this movie has so many good, like,

long takes. Where he just lets the actors play things out. Oh, yeah. And a lot of it, he doesn't, he doesn't, there are always like two shots.

He's not doing a lot of like traditional coverage. I mean, it plays a lot like theater. You're doing these extended scenes and you're just sat in these static shots

and it's beautiful. I think that's part of what lends that kind of natural aspect to the performance as well. It's just capturing whatever's happening it doesn't feel as curated ben's laughing i don't know why no because it's a smart point that's why it is and it's like i i was like why are they cutting right right yes like a million different angles like what is happening my brain kind of he's not like carving a performance from the various performances he was given. He was just like, this is what they're doing.

And I think he likes tension. He likes them playing off of each other. Comedic and dramatic tension. Yes, yes. But we've recorded this miniseries totally out of order because we're banking up episodes before we start filming season two of The Tick, colon Arthur Gets Buff.

And so we've been watching later Brooks movies before now going back to record the first one. And he gets so close-up reliant where, like, by the time you get to How Do You Know, the movie could have been shot with the actors in different continents in different decades. And this, it's like when he cuts to a close-up, it's really fucking good. But he, like, saves it for when it when it's like an exclamation point on something he also and like it's funny because we were talking off mic about how he was perceived as sitcoming yeah you know uh mainstream mainstream american movies but this movie doesn't cut at all like it's not what you would think of as a sitcom movie no and it's it is a comedy like i

think it's so devastating very funny and i laugh a lot throughout the movie except when she has cancer i don't know how many like check off is a comedy yeah i just think it's got a really consistent amount of jokes but it's also devastating it has a lot of great lines that i laugh at and it has some very exaggerated sequences, you know, like the car. Hey, is someone's Nokia ringing? What could that be? Oh, guys, this is my business phone. Hold on.

Let me just pick this up quickly. Ben, do you mind if I just put this on speakerphone quickly? Val, I'm sorry. Let me just get this quickly. Fine. Yes. Hello. Hello. Yes. Hello. Hello.

Sorry. You're not coming through clearly. No, I'm coming through crystal clear. This is how I talk. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Is that who I think it is? My ears were burning. I know who this is.

David, a little bit of advice. He's an actor in the movie we're discussing. Never rub another man's rhubarb. Hey, how you doing ben quick question uh yes sir you ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight no griff third question you got any advice for what i should do for my hairline oh he's bringing it up. Okay, well, yeah, Jack, it sounds like you're like one of 66% of men who lose their hair by age 35. And you're certainly on the wrong end of 35 right now. Look, Jack,

Jack, can you hear me? This is Griffin talking. I'm not... Thing is, when you start to notice hair loss, it's too late. You know, and it's like, I'm not saying your hair all falls out right away, but maybe you notice it slowly moving backwards, maybe some bald spots. And Jack? Yes?

It's easier to keep the hair you have than to replace the hair you've lost. He can hear you. You don't have to shout. I don't have a speakerphone. Sometimes it's hard. Yeah. Well, Jack, have you been turning to any weird solutions to try and fix your problem? Jack, I ask you,

do you want a bald spot to pop up or do you want to do something about it first? The latter. All right. Well, why don't you go to 4hims.com, which is a one-stop shop for hair loss, for skin care, for sexual wellness. Sexual wellness. For men. I'm a bit of a fuck master. You know what I'm talking about, Ben.

I get it, Jack. I like to rub another man's rhubarb if you catch my drift. Well, okay. whatever you want uh thanks to science baldness is optional for you uh hymns will connect you to real doctors and they'll get medical grade solutions to treat hair loss oh like the kind of stuff you get behind a gas station counter no no more like well-known generic equivalents to name brand prescriptions that will help you keep your hair. There's no snake oil pills. That was going to be my next question.

No, these are prescription solutions backed by science. Well, great. It sounds like in order to do this, I just have to go through an awkward doctor visit. In fact, all you have to do is go to 4hims.com. There's no waiting room. It's so easy. You answer some questions. Doctor reviews and prescribes you, and the products come right to your door. Sounds great to me.

Trying to make sure I don't end up like a DeVito. Now, I actually use some of these products. I am 32 years old, and I have been losing my hair. Sure, it happens. And I'm going to tell our listeners that the doctor was able to provide me with the topical solution and a prescription. It's all been really helping me feel better about myself. And you didn't have to have some weird conversation where you go all the way to the doctor's office.

No, it was super easy. Ben? Yes, Jack? This is three-time Academy Award winner Jack Nicholson talking. Oh, I'm familiar. Does HIMSS treat pubic baldness? You know, I bet you could use the product also on, yes, your pubis. Cool.

I was asking for a friend. My friend, the Joker. Order now. Played by Jack Nicholson. It was me. It's the worst performance I've ever given was pretending that I'm not afflicted with pubis. I mean, honestly, I thought you were just saying your nickname for your penis was the Joker.

It is. Blank Check listeners are going to get a trial month of hymns for just $5 today right now while supplies last. Wow, what an effective ad read. I'm so glad I fit pubic boldness in there. You just go to the website

4hymns.com for the details. This would cost hundreds of dollars if you went to the doctor or pharmacy. And instead, all you need to do is go to 4hims.com slash check. Okay, I got to run. I hear another podcast talking about me. Got to call them up on my flip phone.

All right, well, you can hang up on Jack, but I'm just going to say just go to F-O-R-H-I-M-S.com slash check. That's 4hims.com so i checked to make sure i've typed in the web address okay let me hang up what are you saying you go to forhims.com slash check oh great okay goodbye bye that's crazy just called in on my work phone like that my nokia is your work phone a nokia 5110 you know because i want to make myself a little difficult to reach only the nicholsons have that number fair enough anyway val what were you saying i'm looking forward to your take on the car i just

didn't know how the car started again genuinely that's what i was worried about there's no way they're stuck there no they are stuck there done uh like you know there's right there's a few sequences like that that are characters definitely more heightened and comedic and was a character that was not in the book. Really? Really. Not in the book. So wait, what's the book then? The book is

The Mother and the Daughter. But what does the mother do? Uh, I, I, Because her sexual awakening to me is so crucial to why this movie works.

But you know what, I could totally, I was going to say, I could totally do without the sexual awakening. That feels, that feels that sort of like cliche inevitable thing

that she needs to be fixed of the fact that she isn't particularly interested in sex and she needs this she needs this man and his bravado to come and like and wake her up like fuck off what i like i prefer her and her amanda wingfield with her gentleman collars around her oh my god those gentleman collars they're such goblins my wonder is if in the book the DeVito character is more of a thing. Maybe.

Because it feels like so good with his set up so big. You're just like does this movie is this a bunch of her being like I don't want to

fucking sleep with you cowboy DeVito. Danny DeVito is a sexy man. He is. Val is not mine. I'm not. Val is wrinkling

her forehead. I'm not going for it. I love DeVito but you know what these women do have some interesting tastes because I wouldn't have necessarily gone with

John Lithgow either no he's good older John Lithgow he aged well he was very creepy when he was young it's weird

he looks like a Frankenstein it's like he has no hair at all on his skin yeah it's right it's a bit of a baby face definitely it's like an old baby he's a giant right he's like he has no hair at all on his skin. Yeah. It's right. It's a bit of a baby face. Definitely.

It's like an old baby. He's a giant. Right. He's like this lumbering giant. I mean, that's why he's so well cast in this movie. When he picks her up. Oh, my God. But I love that she doesn't have an affair with a young stud.

No, exactly. No. Daniels is hot. Like, she did that. He's a fucking hot dog in this movie. Right. Exactly. He's a hot dog.

Hot diggity dog. He's nice. Like, Lith goes nice and she's like interesting right it's literally just like he is so sensitive and attentive right because that's what's missing well i don't know that's the other thing it's like crazy to me when i watch it and like already having made the point about it being about two women at this time but this is literally and this again why i don't need jack nielsen but it's like we're watching a film about these two women and their sexual identities yes that's what this movie is about you know I mean that's her whole relationship with Jeff Daniels and so she has that fulfilled she just doesn't have any of the emotional needs fulfilled and that's what John Lithgow's there for right I mean a couple of lines in the first 30 minutes alone where I said I can't believe this movie

was made 35 years ago and I can't believe people are still skittish to do this today. Where like her getting oral sex from him on their wedding night in an extended sequence. It's wedding day isn't it? It's like pre-wedding. But they like stay on that. This movie is rated PG by the way. Parental guidance. Because PG-13 didn't exist.

They say fuck once and she talks about it making her wet like 20 minutes in but it's a PG yeah right and like that line too it's like this movie is so casual it's frank in the sexual desires

of these women and describing the acts for them in a way that doesn't happen fucking today no it doesn't unless people act like

that's the entire point of the movie and then it also would have no levity right there would be no humor at all it's very offhand

in this. Like there's the moment where she's lying on her back and then the dress goes up over her head and you go like any other comedy would cut out right now. The second it's implied they would cut out. And then it's like 90 seconds of Deborah Winger going like, where did you learn that? But with that laugh, like her snorting laugh. She's like enjoying it. Sex isn't a burden. And it doesn't immediately get unrated because she might have an orgasm 35 years ago yeah maybe they just didn't know how to categorize you know

oral sex on women yeah 35 years ago nobody could conceive of it no one will get this so let's not worry they didn't know what it was they're like he's doing something to her toes what are you talking about she doesn't have a penis. What could he be doing down there? There's nothing to do. Giving her raspberries on his stomach. There's the getting on top line later that's so funny. Oh my God, it's so good. Oh, I love that line. So it really makes me laugh where she's like,

she just wouldn't, that wouldn't be her. Have you asked? Hundreds of times. About a thousand times. But she stays with him despite his behavior because the sex keeps them together. Yes. Yeah. That's fucking rad.

Yes. And she even says that later on where it's like, why have you left this guy? He's so cute. Yeah. She is still so turned on by him. It's so interesting. I mean, I hear what you're saying about Nicholson, but I also like that that's the middle act of the movie yes that isn't what it builds to ultimately she kind of gets over him then it's fine with like that's a period in her life i mean isn't the last line of the movie her

saying that her two-year-old granddaughter is too old for him yes it's it's it's great it doesn't because it doesn't yeah exactly we say the fact that it doesn't become the culmination of her storyline that is not the end goal for her arc I agree that's what makes me like that character was made whole cloth for the movie and was written for Nicholson interesting I think probably the suitors were more of a thing

throughout the movie with DeVito being the biggest one I don't know Nicholson is in most of James L. Brooks' movies and obviously they have a good working relationship but right, but it's like did they have a good working relationship. Now? But right. But it's like, did they know each other before this? Now? What do you mean? You said that like you had some hot gossip. Well, this is where they established

their relationship, right? Or are they already friends? Yes. There was such a Rio Grande line with TV and film. And Nicholson is like maybe the biggest star in America at this point, if not in the top five. No, that's pushing it. But he's a big star. He's huge. Humongous, right? He's already won an Oscar the top five. No, that's pushing it, but he's a big star. He's huge. Humongous, right? He's already won an Oscar.

Yeah, but no, he's not like a Redford or even a Paul Newman, but yes, he's like... I'd say he's in the five with those guys, right? As a serious actor, yes, not as a box office guy. Had he already done Witches of Eastwick? No, that's where later. That's 87. Batman comes later.

Reds is the same a year before this. This is kind of the start of Cad Nicholson in a way. Well, you know, if you think about his seven, like the last five years

of his career have not been successful. Oh, interesting. Not really. I mean, The Postman Always Rings Twice and The Shining are in there. Those are the hits.

Right. I don't know how big of a hit The Postman Always Rings Twice was. So he discovered his No, it wasn't. character in this film then. A little bit Right. I don't know how big of a hit The Postman always brings. So he discovered his No, it wasn't. character in this film then. A little bit, I think.

That he then kind of played variations on. Because otherwise he got weird movies. He got like The Missouri Breaks and The Border and Going South.

You know, like it's where he's like trying shit out. You know what I mean? Like he's a famous actor, obviously. Has his Oscar. He was in like Chinatown

and Cuckoo's Nest and all that. So funny. It's like he He's famous actor obviously has his Oscar he was in like Chinatown and Cuckoo's Nest and all that but like funny it's like he all the characters have been a box office man like the successful characters that preceded it were predicated on him being dangerous sure yeah this is a character who hasn't there's there's nothing left in him that's dangerous like he's past that point it's kind of a brave performance in a way because he's you know he's all tubby and he's sort of like an idiot he plays, yeah. He's got that belly out. He plays his belly a lot. He really plays his belly like a drum.

I read an interview with James Earl Brooks where he said that he thinks Jack Nicholson's the greatest actor alive because of how much he pushes out his belly in the terms of endearment. That's where he realized it, where he went, I don't think there's another guy with this power. Right. Who would have the lack of ego. Right. The lack of ego to just do whatever

is demanded of the product. No, you went for it at the beginning of season one. You tried. I tried. I was trying to Nicholson so hard. I was pushing out my belly.

There is one scene in the pilot where I'm literally pushing out my belly like someone doing an impression of a pregnant woman. I did not notice.

You know when kids do that in middle school? Of course. I feel like it's when you're wearing a little off. I mean, you're always in the sort of office pants. No, it's when I'm in my pajamas. I feel like it's when you're wearing like a little off I mean you're always in the sort of office pants aren't you yeah

no it's when it's when I'm in my pajamas there's like the scene in the pilot where Tick is in my apartment I'm in my pajamas and I'm literally pushing out my belly

as far as I can you should have unbuttoned it so you could have had that Nicholson like his swim attire yeah I should have gone yeah

well cause in the first his like first scene he's got like the chest hair out and he's sort of like he's using it almost like a prop you know when he that's when he's asking her yeah uh to get lunch with him but that's you but then when she makes the move on him it's all belly years later that's what it was amazing to realize

is how much he progresses well right so when this movie kicks off you're like oh okay so it's about you know you see the scene we just described with the baby but then it's like oh she's a teenager oh she's getting married. Like, you know, we start rapidly moving forward in time. And the kids are born. I mean, it's just like... She moves away really fast. He makes big jumps in time

without title cards, without like anything expository. Like she mentions being pregnant and the next thing you know, she's got a two-year-old, you know? Right. Actually, it's not the next thing you see that she has a two...

Like the last pregnancy when she has a conversation about, you know, Shirley MacLaine brings up the abortion. Right. Actually, it's not the next thing you see that she has a two, like the last pregnancy when she has a conversation about, you know, Shirley MacLaine brings up the abortion. Right, when she wants the money. They wait a while

to show the baby. Right. And I had a, I had a moment where I was like, holy shit, did she do it? You know?

He does that really well. But you make a really good point about the Nicholson thing, which is like, he becomes this kind of symbol of the counterculture in like the 60s and 70s where it's like,

here's the angry young man fighting fighting back against you know the institution and he's one of this wave of like the new 60s 70s leading men who don't look like movie stars and nobody still has the energy that he does people are still trying to right right find that or copy that or something that's like crackling dangerous energy weird like's some weird like caged animal, right? But then this is the turning point where it stops being Jack Nicholson is the audience surrogate character. You're venting your like anti-institution frustration through Nicholson ordering too much at the diner, you know? Sure.

And then this becomes like Nicholson is the supporting character or the co-lead. He's like the dilemma. And the movie is about how scary Jack Nicholson is in a lot of ways so many of his performances post this like Heartburn

Witches of Eastwick like is like do you really want to get in bed with Jack Nicholson metaphorically or literally like are you sure about this I know he's charming

but like he might be the devil and then it even like runs all the way to like the last five performances he did are all like anger management,

the departed, not the bucket list. Well, it's men, it's older men who used to be that sort of angry young man who lost their virility. And now that's the source of their anger and frustration. They're trying to compensate for it.

But when he's quiet in a movie like the crossing guard or the pledge or something, he's good too. I mean, he's great. And about Schmidt, you know, like he,

he, he's a very talented actor, but he's also a movie star. You read... Paul Thomas Anderson doing his Phantom Thread press has talked about how he really wanted Warren Beatty to play the Burt Reynolds part in Boogie Nights. And he sent the script to him

and Beatty came back with notes on the Dirk Diggler character. Because he just assumed... Because he related to that character because he just assumed that's what he was being offered. It's interesting that that's one thing that's amazing that you said that but it's interesting you just said that. Do you know who this character was written for? Warren Beatty? Burt Reynolds.

Oh yes. The Nicholson character was initially written. I think I wasn't Warren Beatty and they cast Shirley MacLaine and Warren Beatty yes I do know that he wrote it originally written with him in mind

Reynolds turned it down to make an action a NASCAR movie called Stroker Ace yeah how did that go great well Reynolds famously

won five Oscars Reynolds famously said there are no awards in Hollywood for being an idiot you know because Reynolds is one of those careers

where it's like he was a fucking movie star for all the 80s and was mostly critically trashed for all the 80s. And like, he was just like, whatever, I'm gonna be a movie star forever, right? And then when the 90s come around, he's like, where's my

Oscar though? Like, wait a second. The Burt Reynolds fascinating arc was he comes out of the gate in like, legitimate movies. Oh, and like Deliverance. Right. It's so good. And everyone's like Redford, Newman. You know, he's one of these guys.

And then he immediately just goes like, give me a mustache and a car. Yeah, yeah. Can I be driving in every single movie I make? Yeah. And Rentrack, that weird company that like pulls movie theater owners and asks for the top 10 biggest box office draws of every year. movie theater owners and asked for the top 10 biggest box office draws of every year. He like holds the record for being number one five or six years in a row for movies that made insane amounts of money that have not held up. They've never heard of.

Right. Called like driving a car. He had three different car franchises. Yeah. Yeah. But he like, yeah, had that arrogance and like spent money like he was going to be famous forever. And then by the 80s was already starring on a CBS sitcom. Yeah yeah um but anyway he's not in this movie he's not and i think

he had an ego that uh nicholson didn't and that baity did you know oh yeah i mean the baity dirk dickler thing's amazing the fact that baity at that age like late 60s still was like oh but i'd play the young guy who fucks everybody and nicholson at this point in his career when he still was like a viable leading man and could have been the guy who was like, oh, but I'd play the young guy who fucks everybody. And Nicholson at this point in his career, when he still was like a viable leading man and could have been the guy who was like fighting to like play like co-lead and like, I mean, you look as good as it gets like 20 years later where it's like he's 30 years older than Helen Hunt, you know? And you look at this.

Sorry, I just hurt my head really bad. Right, but you look at this and it's like this guy's over the hill. And he's like, yeah, I'll play. It's a good part. Like there's no sort of possessive like I need to hold on to my being the hot, young, cool guy. And then he leans into as much as possible. And this is one of his first like big supporting parts where then he gets comfortable doing shit like Reds. Well, Reds is before this.

This is before. Okay. Reds is before this. But that's like what's always been cool about him is that he like is a big movie star but also is like if it's a good supporting part I'll play it.

He's cool. Yeah, Jack Nicholson. Nick. He likes the Lakers. I don't know if you know that. No, you know what I heard and this is hot gossip and I probably shouldn't

be saying this on mic so Ben maybe cut this out. I heard he likes wearing sunglasses. But wear like outside right? During the day

this is what's crazy about Jack he's a wild man lean in what's up he'll wear them in the front row of the Oscars

that's badass yes but you know why because the stars are so bright that night you're right that's what it is Hollywood's biggest stars

are all the wattage yes alright so I cut all that out great thank you it's too hot too hot uh

Debra Winger has like just kind of come up as like the next great leading lady at this point sure well she'd she'd been in Urban Cowboy

right and then Officer and a Gentleman was kind of her like America's Sweetheart role where it was like here we go uh

she rocks in both those movies I don't know how you feel about an Officer and a Gentleman she rocks in all things yes an Officer and a Gentleman is a sexy movie. Yes, it is. Yeah. And then McClane was kind of at her like, she's overdue.

Yeah, when she won the Oscar, it's kind of nuts that she'd never won an Oscar. She's like a six-time nominee. Right, and was in so many big canonical films and had worked with all the great directors, great co-stars. And she'd been in the fucking Rat Pack. Right, right. She was like the one lady who hung with the Rat Pack. Yeah. She was like a legend.

And so, yeah, he gets these three people together in this movie where Shirley MacLaine is kind of playing my grandmother. She's playing a… Griffin's revealing some personal details right now. A well-to-do Texas society lady, I guess. I don't want to accuse my grandmother of plagiarism because this movie did come out some years before I was born. Sure. But that was my grandmother's exact response

when my mother told her she was pregnant. Wow. How can you do this? You're too young to make me a grandmother. Oh, yeah. And we were not allowed to call her grandma growing up we had to call her menu okay which is a french gibberish word that she told us meant young and beautiful i also want everyone to know how important this story is to

griffin because i think he told this to me the first day we met yeah um and then at least one more time subsequently i think our drunken our drunken hotel bar night in London. Val and I went deep on it. Val and I have deep conversations. Sure. We get smarter and smarter the more old fashions we drink. Yeah. We get so intelligent when we're drunk.

You have no idea. People should be listening. Yeah. But my grandmother is very similar to this, except she's the... My grandmother is a Polish Jew from Brooklyn. Sure. Who then moved to Europe and was like, no, I've been a European socialite the whole time. Exactly.

She went to like... Let's forget. Yeah, it's like... She was like classmates with Barbra Streisand at the same school in Brooklyn. Sure. And then was like, no, I have always been a lady of aristocracy. But she is like the European socialite

version of the like Texan Southern Belle that Sherlock Lane's playing in this. So like, from the get-go, as someone who grew up around someone like that, every element of this character is so well done

because it's so easy for it to tiptoe into farce. Especially when that opening scene, we get it. She's intense, but it's all in the name of her daughter. Which I think the whole movie doesn't work if you don't have that as a prelude. Because otherwise you'd just be like, this woman is mean. She's mean for a good 20 minutes after that.

I mean, the scene where she tells her to basically have an abortion. Yeah. And not marry her husband. And then when she suggests, when Debra Winger suggests that she give her money. Right. What's the line where she says she gets very, like, she gets very stressed or very nervous about, about money. And then her daughter's like, that's okay.

This will be too much for you. And just go. And it's. She's like, don't do it. It's, it's not worth the stress it will bring you to yeah yeah yeah exactly even though clearly i have three children and cannot keep a roof over their heads right now right which is the interesting thing is like you know they spend a good chunk of time in that like day before her wedding day of her wedding right there's like maybe like 20 minutes where you get like introduced to Betsy which

that's another thing Patsy I'm sorry yeah Patsy her pal Patsy her pot smoking pal Pats when they Lisa Carroll smoke some reefer the other thing I found out about the book is in the book Hap has the affair with shut up with her yeah what's so fucked up because in the book that's rude okay one of the things that really stands out to me about Patsy. Sure. She's, you know, she's a very. She has her own like transformation. She's a very dynamic character for being so tertiary. I also said happens to the flap. I'm fucking up everyone's name.

Fucking flap. Yeah. She only wants the daughter. She only wants Melanie at the end. Right. She'll take her and she's like genuinely upset when she is not given the daughter, but she has no interest in taking care of the son. So he's having an affair with her.

In the book. Does she still want the baby? I believe so. I should have done more research on the book. Yeah, you're saying a lot of shit about the book. I'm opening up a lot of, yes. You are throwing Patsy under the bus. patsy under the bus there are a couple moments where like uh when they first drive off to move um there's a weird lingering look between uh flap and patsy that deborah winger clocks and at the

end when flap starts crying at the funeral he like does it to patsy and she puts her arm around him i think it was sort of like james l brooks was at least trying to imply that there was always like tension between the two of them i guess i am took that as being sort of tension in that kind of best friend. You take care of her. Don't fuck this up because everybody knows you're a fuck up kind of way. And the betrayal at the end is weighing on him, obviously. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's far more interesting what they ended up landing on. I mean, his other woman. Janice. Janice, yes. She really amuses me. I like her. I like her two scenes. Oh, and when she leaves her daughter in the entryway to that building.

That's the thing that distracted me in that entire scene when she chases her down in what, Nebraska? The college. And she just sort of like jams the girl in her stroller in the entryway and leaves her there. I don't know if these are things. But she's always in the background of that shot so we know that she's safe. We can always see her. How old

is Debra Winger when they shot this movie? Because I cannot believe how well she plays having that many children. She is 28 when the movie comes out. Yeah. Yeah. So like 27.

And she doesn't have a kid until a couple years later because her pregnancy is what made her drop out of broadcast news. She was married to Timothy Hutton. Yeah.

For a few years. And then she married Arliss Howard. Right. Of the Lost World Jurassic Park. That's another killer acting couple. Yeah. Yeah.

And she had... Oh oh and she also dated bob carrey the governor of nebraska for a while and they met filming this they met filming this in lincoln nebraska wow and i think he lost a foot in the war bob carrey who was president of your university back way back when you were there oh Oh, sure. Yeah, with New School. Can I give Bob Carey some comedy points right now? Shoot. They met while she was filming in terms of endearment,

which I think caused some press hullabaloo because she was like newly a big star and she's dating the local politician and he had lost a foot in the war

and his public comment on the relationship was she swept me off my foot. That's pretty good. How did she not have babies with him? I know. He won the Medal of Honor. He also won getting to date Deborah Winger for several years.

That's the ultimate Medal of Honor. He won 10 comedy points. We just gave him 10 comedy points. Deborah Winger is her she has fucking cartoon character eyes it is insane like how big

and expressive and powerful her eyes are especially in this movie it's also why one of the things that I can't buy is when they give her

cancer makeup in the end to like we're gonna try to make these look deep set she looks incredible and she already she just looks so alive constantly the one problem or the one thing that's

i expected this to be a wasting away movie with cancer for already like a hundred pounds that is true but right they basically are like well let's put dark circles around your eyes and uh we're just not gonna point the camera at you when you, which is a great artistic choice that we're going to make. But like also maybe you just don't look that sick no matter what we do to you. She didn't look that bad. She went so quickly. She went so quickly. Can I read you an insane trivia fact from the IMDb page?

Uh-huh. Deborah Winger behaved erratically on the set of this film because she was trying to get over a severe cocaine addiction. Oh, well, it was the early 80s. At one point, she and Shirley MacLaine got into a shoving match. the set of this film because she was trying to get over a severe cocaine addiction oh well it was the early 80s at one point she and shirley mclean got into a shoving match i wonder if that's what i'm reading is that sort of like feral naturalistic she's just she's always moving like when oh yeah she's sort of like contorting her body in funny positions like leaning down and everything is funny. Everything's funny. Yeah, smiley and weird.

In a way that looks beautiful and spontaneous and unexpected. I mean, that's the thing I think about both of them, that the single maybe shared quality between these two actresses is they're both completely unexpected in their performances. Everything they do, every response they have, you know? But yeah, now I see how she might have just been high. My favorite scene of hers is when they're in the bathroom and they have the shower running because the baby is sick oh yeah and the steam is rising and she's just like even

though he's delivering devastating news to her we have to like move yeah you know because i got a job and her baby is fucking sick and it's three in the morning. She's so like energetic and alive anyway and you buy it. Like she's so exciting to watch. You're making me question everything I feel about that performance.

No, look, I think Was it all? Was it all the coke? Was it all the coke? You could give me all the coke in the world. I couldn't give this performance.

It's not just coke. Maybe that was a little special sauce in what was going on. And also she's trying to kick it at this point. I mean, it's not even she's on that much coke.

It's like, this is her trying to get off of it. I'm sorry. Have you read some of the other trivia on this page? Very bizarre. Is it also going to ruin the movie for me? Lifco shot his role in three days

during a break from Footloose. Three days he shot this movie in. Three days. Got an Oscar nomination. That's impressive. He got an Oscar nomination? He did, which is kind of bizarre.

It's a surprising nomination because he doesn't dominate at all. I mean, obviously he's a supporting actor, but still. I would have given it to Daniels. I was going to say, how does Daniels feel about that? Right. Not happy. I've read many interviews with him where he said that he was fucking angry because literally every other actor got nominated.

That is true. It got four nominations. I think he's my number five if i'm ranking these performances daniels is your five yeah i think daniels is my four i would put him ahead of lithgow i really like lithgow like you were saying earlier there's something magical about him in such a short period of time but it's also the character i mean that's the thing it's the character jeff i mean and people probably didn't like daniels because of his character well i don't even mean they don't like him because of the character

I meant the fact that Jeff Daniels does beautiful work with that character but he's not going to do something that's more interesting than an inherently more interesting character which Lithgow had he is a character who conforms to your expectations so don't pick Labradors if you want an award they wanted Janet Leigh and Jamie Lee Curtis to play the mother daughter

you're casting the actual mother-daughter. Jack Nicholson would do crazy things like show up practically naked on set and almost all their scenes were improvised. Like, this is nuts. It also said that, yeah, I mean, like, James L. Brooks

would play all these, like, mental games. Like, this feels like a very light, fun, like, spontaneous movie. And apparently, they were shoving each other going through withdrawal. Right. The other crazy fact here is It was like a very light, fun, spontaneous movie. And apparently they were shoving each other. It's an air-hoppy film.

Right. The other crazy fact here is Jennifer Jones bought the book rights for this movie because she wanted to make it as a vehicle for herself. Her husband, Norton Simon, a millionaire, then hired James L. Brooks to write the screenplay, I think, off of Starting Over. Right. And James L. Brooks was like, I really want to make this. I want to direct it. I think it should be Shirley MacLaine instead. Right.

Or just a different actress. Someone else. Wow. So he had to convince Paramount to buy them out. And then he, like, thanked her in all of his Oscar speeches. Right. For letting him make the movie. But it's like, yeah, this film sounds like this crazy torturous process. John Lithgow was replacing someone who is unsighted,

who dropped out while they were filming. That's why it was like, we need someone quickly. Footloose was filming simultaneously. We can get Lithgow for a weekend. It's nuts, but then this movie feels so effortless. It's very messy, but that's

the appeal of the movie, is it just feels like very kind of, it's, this movie feels like breathing. It's just like human behavior. Um, what was the thing I was going to say? Uh, flap.

That's what I was going to say. Flap four or five. Flap four or five. Flap. Uh, so the plot, uh, yeah,

they, they, they live. Yeah. She lives in Iowa with her husband oh i know mom lives in texas i know the thing i was gonna say yeah the reason i want to spotlight i want to find out how young uh deborah winger was because she has so many children and just she nails this kind of like uh very unconscious physical multitasking that mothers have

where it's like what you're talking about in the shower scene where it's just like I can rock a baby and do six other things and not have to look at it. Like when we had

our friend Katie Rich on the show. She gave an incredible performance in the studio. Right. Like podcasting with us while like tending to a crying baby.

And it was just like you're not even looking at it. Like it's just like automatic at this point. Damn. Well, and even her losing her temper when she meets John Lithgow in the parking lot.

Right, with the kids. That sort of unselfconscious anger with the kids. But also, this leads me to the other thing that I love about it is how realistic the performances of the boys are. The older, just snotty little boy. Snotty older boy

and then like the sensitive younger boy too. And he doesn't, like he doesn't want to talk in the end. There's no, there's nothing wise about these children. There's nothing cynical about these children. Like it's incredibly realistic what she was working with as well. It's interesting because he makes a lot of movies with children in them and

their performance is very wildly. This is the one where the kids feel like real kids. This is the one where the kids feel like real kids. I think that Sarah Steele in Spanglish is the only other one who feels like a real kid. Which Sarah Steele is fighting really hard to make that a kid. She's a good actress. When you think of it as good as it gets kid

or I'll do anything kid. Those are not good kids. The little kids at the beginning of broadcast news are really good. Yes. Sure.

But the thing that is so impressive about this movie is it is so unconcerned with making the characters likable because it's just like simultaneously awful things and wonderful things.

Like he's just constantly just presenting these people in their full messiness. Yeah. Which is why it feels like like something like Boyhood or Moonlight where he's just constantly just presenting these people in their full messiness. Yeah. Which is why it feels like something like Boyhood or Moonlight where it's just like, here's just chronicling a life. And you feel like

this movie could just go on for like six hours and just continue showing these people at different periods. Sure. The way that like Lithgow and Nicholson like come in and then come out, you know. This would be a TV show now. 100%. Right, if you pitch this. Yeah. Six part miniseries. Right, I want to do an adaptation of this McMurtry novel.

Great. I can't wait to make this a TV show. But that's why the cancer almost weirdly functions. Even now when the movie is known as a cancer movie, it certainly wasn't sold that way when it came out. But even now, it functions as kind of a twist ending because it's sort of like Titanic where it's like, here's a movie about like two people

that you're going to fall in love with for like all their strengths and all their weaknesses. And at the end, one of them is going to die. And it's not the one you might predict. Like, you know, it's the younger one

who has much more of her life. Also, if like you go into a movie expecting a cancer movie, you're braced for like, I'm going to have to lose somebody. Like I'm going to watch them suffer. You're also braced for illness, which this movie doesn't have a lot of.

Which is like, you say it's basically out of nowhere. Life happens. Like people who live like rich, complicated lives and have different relationships and different periods then suddenly get diagnosed with illnesses

and then die. And that's like the most tragic thing in the world. Right. And this movie just makes you live with her for like an hour and 50 minutes. And then it's just like completely random and sudden. Well, and it's not a device in her character development. You know, it doesn't serve to give her any kind of meaning or change her or anyone around her in any way because it doesn't.

Nobody changes. It is that very, you know, slice of life thing of like this doesn't mean anything. None of it meant anything and also the movie is moving in such a clip and how it jumps ahead in time that at the moment they diagnose her you're like wait we have like 30 more years to go what are you talking about like you're so ready to see the rest of her life and there's no meaning to the fact that it ends then she doesn't get to like close anything it doesn't help anyone else come to any greater understanding of themselves right or their relationship to her and that that's what's great. Yeah. It's not cancer as wisdom giver or something.

You know what I mean? Right. It's a movie about like how death affects people by making it about her life and then having the death just be a fucking awful thing. Well, and it's also the thing about Shirley MacLaine that she's kind of constantly plagued by that parental fear of losing her from the beat from the first scene. And there was nothing she could do to prevent it no right at the end it's totally cruel and meaningless and for somebody who's completely afraid of losing their child she also characterizes their relationship as warring and fighting all the time yeah that beautiful scene where she's

like i never thought we were fighting her kids like i didn't think we were fighting and but uh also you know and then look mclean is so this is another movie uh like you say it's a cancer movie this is also a movie where you think of it as like oh it's mclean playing this like big mom character right whereas it's not like it's incredibly restrained performance yes her big moments are things like where she's give me the shot give it the shot scene yeah where that's where she's just like like can't i help in this situation and there's you know no help that she can provide except screaming at nurses to give her a shot.

All the big emotional outbursts in this movie work because they're playing against the instinct of big Oscar-y scenes. Her reaction to Nicholson breaking up with her is staggering. I love every choice she makes where she could have done Shirley MacLaine in Postcards from the Edge,

which is a performance I really enjoy. But, you know. But they always do the opposite of how you think a movie character would respond in those circumstances. Yes. Like, there's a weird, surprising, funny response. James L. Brooks said the reason he cast her was she was the one actress who thought it was a comedy.

Wow. And he felt like it was only going to work. I mean, this speaks to what you were saying about like, I can't remember if this was before we started recording. I think the thing about, there's two co-leads where they're acting like they're in completely different films and it works. And it works.

Because that defines the relationship between this mother and daughter is they don't speak the same language and they have completely different experiences of their relationship and their reality. And yeah, they live in different worlds. Like literally what they see around them is completely different.

They have, like, different glasses on. Shirley MacLaine experiences no hardship at all in her world and yet she's, like,

plagued by this sense of hardship and victimhood. Right. And Deborah Winger has the opposite. Like, she views everything

as being very positive. Right. Despite the struggles around her. But, but I think that is a key to this movie working is that you have someone like McClane

who's playing into the comedy of the character and the situations rather than playing up the drama, which would probably make the movie like too fucking heavy to be fair. Well, and again, nobody's playing up the drama. Like Debra Winger's not approaching it from a comedic perspective, but she's a character, like we were saying before,

it's like is so full of energy and and humor and she does she laughs in response to everything um

the like even the tough scenes to watch like the shopping you know the supermarket scene which is like my favorite scene in the movie yeah

um I like how that scene is kind of funny like when she starts adding up and the lady's like, we're going in the wrong direction. She just gives him the candy bar so defiantly. You're a very rude person.

And the kid's like, can't we lose this with the Midol? And she's like, no. That stays. But that's also Lithgow's big selling point is he noticed. Right. Flap is always like so caught up

in like his classes his career I also like that he introduces himself as like I just declined your application for a second mortgage it's like thank you for that exposition

in your introduction right you just gave us everything we need to know but it's also like here's the guy who's like the face of her current problems

yes right who also is like but I'm with you right I just can't do anything about it ding dong oh oh okay of her current problems. Yes, right. Who also is like, but I'm with you. Right. I just can't do anything about it. Ding dong. Oh.

Oh, okay. Yes, get the door, Griffin. Get the door. Hip, toh. Hip, toh. Oh, my God. Hip, toh. David. Are you David Sims?

That's me. Roll these dice for me. Okay, sure. I don't know four tip toe tip toe tip toe i i don't know who who who are you i'm trying to get to the kitchen for a snack but i can't wake daddy you're the the board game character from Can't Wake Daddy. Don't Wake Daddy? I'm the red kid. It's great to meet you. Try not to wake daddy.

Long time fan. All I want is a midnight brisket. A midnight brisket. My favorite meal is a midnight brisket. But the problem is my daddy has such a bad mattress that he wakes up if i don't walk like this david roll the die again oh here we go one tip you only got a one on that one yeah i'm sorry you still hold on to the other die can you roll yeah there you go one tip so do your dad he wakes easily constantly do you think his problem is that his mattress wasn't perfectly designed for him?

Yeah, I mean, it was almost designed to not support sleep. It's a bag of rocks. All right, well, I think you could make an upgrade. What? From our friends at Casper. Okay. Who make mattresses that are engineered to soothe and cradle your natural geometry. What about my dad's natural geometry?

Well, your dad, like most humans, I'm assuming, spends one third of his life sleeping. More than that. I'd say probably four fifths. So he should be comfortable. Yeah, he really should because right now I'm starving. I can never eat.

So what if he could get an affordable mattress that is well-made and it doesn't cost that much because Casper cuts out the middleman and sells directly to him. Okay, look, here's the deal, though. I'd have to sneak this past my father. Oh, right, because you can't wake him. I can't wake him. Is he never awake?

He's never awake. Okay, so it's five-fifths. Yeah, I was trying to do him a little bit of a favor, but he's literally sleeping all of the time. Do you think he would care that these mattresses are designed, developed, and assembled in the United States? He would love that, but this is my biggest concern. There's literally one spot that my father doesn't look. The spot I'm trying to get to at the end of the board, which is a mini fridge. Is there any way I could hide this mattress behind the mini fridge before I did the Indiana Jones-style bait-and-switch?

Well, some might say that this mattress is delivered in a how-did-they-do-that-size box. What? Watch your volume also a little bit. Oh, yeah, sorry, sorry. Yeah, and, you know, roughly a mini fridge size. Oh, my God. And it's free shipping and returns in the U.S. and Canada.

That's a good deal. I guess I have to pay full price for the rest of it, right? Well, no. You can be sure of your purchase with Casper's 100-night risk-free sleep on it trial. And I've got one myself. You're David Sims? I sleep on a Casper mattress.

Oh, my God. And any of our listeners, including your dad, he listens, right? I mean, yes. He plays it as white noise while he's trying to stay asleep. Can get $50 towards any mattress purchase by visiting casper.com slash check. So I have to check to make sure I type in casper.com? No.

You can go to casper.com slash check and use check at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. You can get $50 towards any mattress purchase. That sounds incredible. By the way, Valerie, I love the following. I just have to watch it with subtitles. Why? Because my daddy is always sleeping.

Can you roll these dice quickly? Yeah. Oh my God, I got a 500. Wow, good job, Valerie. Let me tiptoe out of here Alright well before you leave Let me tiptoe back I just want to tell you

Start sleeping ahead of the curve With Casper $50 towards any mattress purchase Casper.com slash check Use promo code check at checkout Terms and conditions apply Okay now will you roll please die? Yes.

Now I only got a four. I mean, you're really kind of screwed. All right. Well, tipped over the door there. Wow, God. I don't know how to feel. What an incredible occurrence. That was great.

Unbelievable. Thank you, Griffin. Don't thank me. Thank daddy. Just not too loudly. Thank you, Ben, for not murdering anyone with a knife during that. Yep. Thank you, daddy.

Thank you, daddy. Daddy's dead. Yeah. Don't wake daddy. Yeah. Forgot about that one. Very popular. So.

Remember when he would wake up in the commercial, though, and he'd be like. He looked a little scary Yeah And his sleeping cap would literally fly off of his head Yeah There you go Yeah What were we talking about?

The movie Terms of Endearment Uh huh Yeah We're talking about the Lithgow Has a lot of bed scenes Meeting in the grocery store Oh His exposition introduction

Yes And then their three days of filming affair meeting in the grocery store. Oh, his exposition introduction. Yes. And then their three days of filming affair. Which, because of the way the movie jumps, you can't tell if they've started sleeping together already. And then he makes it clear, like, we're just contemplating sin. Like, we're getting lunch a lot and holding hands and not doing anything. She already, at this point, kind of suspects that Flatt might be cheating on her she's oh yeah early on i'm on to you there's the i'm on to you right well yeah and i think it's it's established pretty pretty early on that she

harbors a lot of jealousy about that and uh whether or not it's like we don't know whether or not she's just being paranoid so it almost feels like a sort of like, I don't know, some kind of like security choice on her part to just have somebody on the side as well. She's also like her entire life since marriage, she's had to totally bend around what flap wants to do, where he wants to live. And he's barely there as a father.

And she just keeps on getting more kids and having to like carry them simultaneously. Oh yeah. They have the moment where she goes out of town to New York and he's like, well, what about the kids? And it's that idea of a father babysitting his own children for two days. And he has no idea what he's doing.

And then even the fact that it becomes a decision they have to make of where will the kids go? Which I have to just sit there and process for a while when I'm watching the film. And it's the right decision. Like it's great. He doesn't really fight it. Like that's the thing. He like finds it watching the film and it's the right decision like it's great they thought of that and he doesn't really

fight it like that's the thing he like finds it very depressing but it's like I can't argue he says what does he say I never thought

I'd be the kind of man who gives up his kids yeah it's like we did we did this whole movie insane he also his character strikes me

as not being a good English professor no because he's middling he's a middling kind of going to bad small colleges yeah which Shirley MacLaine totally calls it I think he's in it for the's a middling kind of going to bad small colleges yeah which

shirley mclean i think he's in it for the girls a little bit yeah yeah and the tweed um the uh the elbow patches yeah oh yeah like you're an educated white man in texas in the 80s you could be doing better than this if you want to be doing better than this it's not even the it's the 70s this is a period 79 is when most of it yeah it's the last year so there's no reason he's not the president of a university he should be the mayor of Houston but McLean calls I love that too that scene going back where she tells

her not to marry Flap and Debra Winger is like so you're just gonna you know I don't think you should come to my wedding if you feel that way and she's like great that's a great relief for me thank you for that permission I agree i felt hypocritical she's kind of stoned she just walks up my mother isn't going to my wedding right it's really funny right but it's like if this whole movie is about i mean thematically it's about people and their

limitations and everybody just accepting everyone another with their limitations like nobody people act horrifically to one another yes they do nobody cuts anyone off right which i love there's never a strange man i mean the closest you have to an estrangement is nicholson and mclean breaking up for many years obviously but then he's still there for her which is weird because that's the one thing he didn't want to have in the relationship right was like he wanted the sex without having the obligation right but isn't that like he's just a fucking idiot who's like well i don't want the obligation but i do feel very strongly about you i can't imagine how these things would be connected

and he has a hero narrative too he needs to show up there in nebraska when she's in the hospital yeah he thinks of himself as a hero can we talk about his shrine in the kitchen the main thing we haven't talked about is McLean and Nicholson's romance. And yes, his shrine, his house. Gotta use what you got.

It's like on the dishwasher and things. It's every surface in the kitchen. It's a little tacky. It's 150 people and I'm one of them. It's 106.

It's the funniest thing. It's the funniest choice is occupation. He's a bum astronaut. Like womanizing astronaut that is so funny and like you give james upbrooks all his credit for being like oh what a brilliant idea of a character who has never existed yeah in american storytelling up until this point like also he's like what's in houston oil nasa like right like i mean like that's what you think of in houston

and the sort of like mythology is that a lot of American astronauts had like drinking problems and depression afterwards because they kind of like could never get over it. Like they felt like they peaked. Right, of course. And this is the opposite. Who's a guy who's just like, I'm a fucking astronaut. He never really wanted to be an astronaut. He just did it because he's like, I will get laid forever, no matter how fat I get. Right.

Like most astronauts can't get over not being an astronaut anymore. And he only wanted to be a post-astronaut. Exactly's like i just gotta do it once i just gotta get up there one time yeah it is really funny to me that he beat he's i think he he was an oscar winner for this performance yeah he beat sam shepard in the right stuff who is like interesting you know what i mean like who is playing like the real like cowboy of that movie and like maybe one day would turn into a jack nicholson type you know what i mean uh sam shepard should have won that year though sorry nicholson is just so much fucking fun in this movie i mean it is just like such an entertaining performance i get really disturbed by the way he chews the oysters though when they go to lunch he chews the

shit out of those oysters you shouldn't it's i and you can see them in his mouth it's a distracting moment for me that first date is a lot there because there's her dress which is wild so much her wig the set up of

she's got some wigs such a good structural joke about how the movie has been jumping ahead in time at that point where she's finally like you know what I'll take you up on that date

and he's like that was like six years ago what are you talking about the movie acknowledges that only five minutes have passed I have 15% more paunch right

and he's also just so deflated by the time that he opens that door like the life has left his face he's so much grayer we can tell yeah

but she doesn't really age in this movie does she not really that's true yeah no she's just Shirley MacLaine because she's got that same like organza dress

going on and she spent a lot of time and effort and money maintaining one look for decades Yeah, no, she's just Shirley MacLaine. She's got that same like organza dress going on. And she spent a lot of time and effort and money maintaining one look for decades. You know, it's like a coat over her shoulders. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, they finally go out for lunch as her means to escape the weird three stooges of suitors. Right. Who are constantly having arguments and asking her how old she really is. That's the reason she leaves. It's not of suitors. Right. Who are constantly having arguments

and asking her how old she really is. That's the reason she leaves. It's not the suitors. It's because one of them calls her out about lying about her age. Who is her physician, as far as I can tell. That's the reason he's calling her out.

Which my grandmother has... There's a weird conflict of interest going on in that room. Very much so. My grandmother has false ages on her legal documents. Good for her. Which is a felony.

Is she still with us? Is this the grandmother who's still with us? Yeah, probably shouldn't say that on air. Okay. What's her Twitter handle? Sure. It is at real Donald Trump. So they go on this date.

Yeah, he offers her oysters. He drives her the top down. Right. A real woman comes prepared. Yeah, He offers her oysters. He drives her the top down. Right. A real woman comes prepared. Yeah, right. And then hard cut to her, like, fighting the elements. They have this sort of charged lunch where he's like, I recommend that you drink a lot if you want to hang out with me.

The scene where he, what's the scene? Is it before this lunch or is it when the first time he asks her to be the date to the hypothetical dinner that got canceled where he's like, well, if you're already down, then why don't we just go straight to liftoff? Yeah, that's the six years, five minutes before. Right, right, right. That's his opening proposition, which maybe puts her off for about six-ish years. But then they get to dinner and he immediately, like, once again, is just like, let's just get through this. Or not even dinner. It's lunch.

It's an afternoon date. What I love about it. He's like, let's rush through this to get to the sex part. He is so bad at all of that that when she literally calls him and says, come look at my painting in my bedroom. Right. At night. Right. Even that, he's like, I have to look at your painting.

You know, he sort of, like, weighs it. I have to look at your painting you know he sort of like weighs it i have to do anything because he made a huge amount of effort like he did get there he got dressed he wears his like country club tie or whatever and she kind of tries to play along because she has her little like coquettish prepared line about what uh when little boys are impatient they don't get dessert yes she's trying real hard to play along with that for a moment. She knows all the lines, right? Yeah, right. She knows how to,

how you're supposed to flirt, I guess, in this sort of society. But he's not one for, like, double entendres or any sort of seduction. Right, it's lead in the pencil. But I also love, like,

his introduction when she sees him out the window with the two women in his car. He's not even, it's not working with them. Right. And these women are like 22.

Like, you almost could go like, well, I guess he gets away with this bullshit because he's usually dating women like a third of his age. But you go like, no,

everyone sees through his bullshit. The very first one I think she sees him, the very first time she sees him, it's working. Yeah. Because that's when he's missing the garbage can and stuff

to empty the bottle. That's very funny. And he brings, and somebody, one of the women comes back into the house and we don't see, like we don't see the scene, we see to empty the bottle. That's very funny. And one of the women comes back into the house and we don't see the scene. We see it from her perspective and he brings her inside. But then the next time we see him with two young women

he's in the car. He's like, come on. So it did work at one point. Sure. It's just working less and less. They're a very age appropriate couple. He is, I think, three years younger than her. Oh, cool. Yes. Yes. So it's just like him and Helen Hunt. Yeah, exactly. I think three years younger than her. Oh, cool. Yes, yes. So it's just like him and Helen Hunt. Yeah, exactly.

I think Helen Hunt is playing 10 years older than him in As Good As It Gets, right? That's right. That's correct, yes. But they start this weird relationship. He very quickly is like, you know, I date other women. Right. And it's like, just fucking... Yeah, he can't chill out for just a fucking second.

He can't be romantic for one fucking second. I immediately just thought of as good as it gets as being in like the same universe and Helen Hunt is the granddaughter at the end. Jeez. Hey.

Can we do the math on that? The man's reputation for fucking younger women is so immense that Nancy Meyers made a whole movie about it. Yeah. That is what

Something's Gotta Give is. Right. There is that moment at the end of As Good As It Gets. The it. That is what Something's Gotta Give is. There is that moment at the end of As Good As It Gets. The ludicrous premise of Something's Gotta Give is what if Jack Nicholson fell in love with a woman his own age? That's like the joke. But there is that moment at the end of As Good As It Gets where he goes to Helen Hunt's apartment and Shirley Knight's there and you're just like

he should just start dating the moms. I wish he looked and was like, oh a woman my age. Right. We have more to talk about. He's got some other problems. He's got some other issues. Yes. Um,

but, but yeah, it's like they form this relationship where I do like that, even though stuff is obviously tense between Winger and McLean, they do have this sort of open dialogue where like Winger is able to like criticize her mother and talk about like the things that she's not acknowledging about herself valerie said like there's never an estrangement like they might say things to each other that are crazy sometimes well and like the closest thing to

an estrangement was when she didn't talk to her for what three weeks after the wedding or so she wouldn't answer the phone right and then all shirley mcclain really needs to do is just like barge through with what's going on in her life and interest deborah winger enough that she'll just forgive her because she wants to know what's happening in houston right um which it's nice then when that's flipped where winger calls and just won't stop talking and mcclain has to be like i'm in bed with the astronaut i can't talk right now for the one time she can't talk the one time she can't talk um it one time she can't talk. Because that's that one time where she calls and Debra Winger's like,

I'm sorry, Mom. I'm putting the kids in. And she's like, No, I've called you ready to have a conversation. You're going to talk to me right now. They do have this nice kind of relationship, though, where they meet in the middle. And at some points the movie does it

feels like reduce it to like god it's been way too long since broad got laid but i also feel like it's something about the fact that it's like here are two people who are equally difficult in different ways but they're like willing to call each other out on bullshit because they both have so many weird like defensive walls built up around their personalities and how they want people to perceive them

you know well they call each other on their bullshit because they essentially also will accept each other unconditionally for their bullshit so there's no reason

not to say something about it right which is kind of beautiful and like even at the end of the movie it's like maybe they weren't supposed to date

but they're like good people to have in each other's lives you know I think the sex thing goes beyond like she needs to get laid or whatever as well it's also like finally she's like oh i get why you married the idiot this is fun right like i i see this like i maybe i didn't have that perspective before and also letting another person into her life like those three suitors are like you know the movie implies at that point that they've been like following her around for like seven years and she lets them like kiss the ring and then just sit at the table like groveling well i mean if you go into it like obviously

we never see her relationship with her husband with right with albert brooks but there is that feeling that it's the kind of relationship wherein she never was intimate in an emotional way or even like truly present in a physical way, obviously, with her husband. So she gave all of that intimacy to her daughter. Yes. And then it was asked of her even after she moved away. So it's like it needed she needed somebody else to sort of serve that purpose and be a connection that's actually in physical proximity to her. And so she picks literally the closest person in physical proximity you're there you were so fucked up and i hate everything about you but you're next door next door so that's his one point when he's breaking

up with her where i'm like he's got a point there where he's like we literally live next to each other it's a little weird like and it's like that would be weird don't date your neighbor don't right that's a good call right don't date your neighbor i Right. Right. That's a good call. Right. Don't date your neighbor. I know one person who dated her neighbor. It was a disaster. It was a very bad idea. He still clearly like can't get over what he respects about her as a person. Even if it stops him from being able to commit to dating her seriously. Right.

Like you can tell that he appreciates her and recognizes how much she makes him want to be a better man. Oh boy. You just bored him that much with that line. I really am. No, I'm just tired, guys. Yeah. TGIF. But yeah, I mean,

going back to what we were saying about- Am I right, buddy? I'm sorry, I'm pausing for a second. No, please. Into fivers, baby. I just dap really hard. Yeah. But it's that

beautiful thing about the relationship between Winger and McClane where we were talking about that they they will call each other out on things and then you have

the moment with the grandson when I can't listen to you criticize your mother anymore and she and she she slaps the shit

out of him and it references something Winger says earlier where she says don't make me hit you in public right

to her son. And it's maybe my favorite moment of Brooks as a pure visual filmmaker. Because the movies have these kind of like locked off, like occasionally there's a little camera moving, but a lot locked off, like wide shots or two shots of people in long takes. And there's like a nice kind of like, you you know somber walking out of the hospital her with the children sort of like master shot and then when he says that mclean slaps him and the kid runs away the camera starts like chasing after that like it's fucking the born identity yeah and it like gets right in their face to when like mclean grabs him right and it's like such a vital moment of just like she slaps

him he slaps her back and she slaps him again being like i don't want to do this but you know you can't hit me and you can't criticize your mother right and then she just starts aggressively kissing him to like button that physical interaction see that's the thing i think this movie is ultimately about is like how contradictory human behavior can be to human emotions like it's all these weird responses to situations that movies usually present as being cut and dry well it's because movies are always trying to find meaning in them and that's what makes this different is there isn't a meaning in the narrative you're not getting to some point you're learning something.

You know, they don't get anywhere. I mean, yes, Shirley MacLaine grows. I don't know if there's a discussion we had whether or not Winger grows much as a character. I don't know. She has less room. She kind of starts out. Right. She's shackled or however you want to put it. She's like locked into this.

I think she starts out kind of preternaturally wise and positive and then she just physically ages into that being appropriate. Well, and also, but right, but again,

there's, it's what's so appealing about her obviously early on is she's so world-wise but then she's sort of stuck in this, in zero, you know,

for a lot of the movie. Right. It doesn't impact her character. The tragedy of this character who you feel like never gets to live the life that she maybe could live. Right.

Except then you see her in New York and her interaction with those women I want to talk about the New York section because that's where I feel personally

it's also the 80s let's not forget oh it's making a real commentary about women in the 80s Brooks is taking out his sniper rifle we'll make a movie

about women but they're all going to be housewives and they're all going to be in the Midwest or in the South when we get to those coastal elite working women who don't have babies and talk about their yeast infections at lunch they're going to be housewives and they're all going to be in the midwest or the south when we get to those coast elite working women who don't have babies and talk about their yeast infections at lunch

monsters like yes evil harpies yes uh all shoulder pads and short haircuts it's robert palmer video made one of them now she's gonna take her daughter and turn melanie into one of those evil you get to that section where she starts, like, fully verbalizing how she feels being around these women, and you're like, she's not someone who just settled for something and doesn't think about it. She has full awareness of the life she has chosen for herself, what life she could be living otherwise,

why she's happy in her world, you know, despite struggles. Yeah, I never sense that she's shackled. No, well, it's the Nebraska move shackled I mean she doesn't have choices it's the Nebraska move that feels hard she doesn't get choices she's good in Iowa like I feel like

she's happy in that house even if it's tough to afford it's a nice looking house honestly but it's the Nebraska move where my girlfriend was like she's not gonna move to Nebraska she was really annoyed about that

and he makes the decision when she's left him and packs the whole house yeah it's not even just he made this decision because he's the breadwinner and therefore that's where they're going it's like ask is she she was really annoyed about that when she's left him and packs the whole house yeah yeah it's not even just he made this decision because he's the breadwinner and therefore that's where they're going it's like and then janice is there and then janice is there fucking janice fucking janice and also who responds to are you having an affair with like it's like someone who like runs a basketball team being asked if he's trading a player he's like you know there's

conversations that need to be have and i can't really talk about this right now you know any feelings you might be having are valid that's incredible also she's supposed i mean it's i don't know we could look at the actresses but she's supposed to be a grad student who's significantly younger oh yeah oh for sure she does not she could be one of those new york bitches like working in daniels does not age. You know what I mean? We're saying Winger is just as plausible as a 21-year-old and as a 37-year-old. Daniels always looks like he's 24 years old.

But I like that because he's kind of like a fucking man-boy. The idea is he probably still behaved the exact same way when he was 60. He's wearing the same elbow pad coat. He's wearing the same haircut. Nothing has changed about him at all. It's like the childhood version of an English professor. This is what i'm gonna be like when i'm a grown-up and he just stays playing that role which girls will be impressed with books right which is like the certain types of people who go to teach at college for the rest of their life because they constantly

want to be um idolized by 18 year olds yeah you know yeah uh gross people i call them um but then okay so then like the the big hammer drops yeah i mean we basically talked about it we're done i mean honestly like the answer is not the point of this movie happens an hour and 45 minutes in sure it's a two hour 10 minute movie right and it's sort of like thrown off and first it's like oh there's a cyst or whatever. You don't wash well. I know. You never knew how to wash. Yeah. Whose fault is that? Seriously. I mean, come on.

And like as she starts to talk about it with everyone, everyone refuses to acknowledge that they're upset and scared. Yes. Like her especially. When like the malignant call is like very like, well, I'm malignant. Right. None of it. Patsy's the most upset person. Yes.

call is like very like well i'm malignant right no no he's the most upset person yes not those scenes where it's like lots and lots of scenes with doctors where we're understanding the various things you know it's just it's all just sort of happening it's like oh you have some lumps uh no you're gonna die yeah i think she seems to find out the information really quickly very quickly this movie cuts out all the shoe leather like it only gives you the scenes that matter emotionally it doesn't give you any expository scenes where it's like, here's setting up the third check-in. Yeah. Like, you find out it's terminal, you know, when it's just like, yeah, I'm not going to make it.

You don't get the scene where they're like, there's nothing we can do, you know? Mm-hmm. And it's brutal. There's a moment that kills me at the end. Both from, I find it weirdly the most emotionally affecting thing in the movie, and I also just think it's a stunning piece of filmmaking and acting and all around just sort of like humanist storytelling. That really shows the difference between like a second movie. What moment?

She's there. Sure. Asks the kids to come in. Yeah. Okay, yes. This is the moment that gets me too. Yes. Right. the kids to come in yeah right okay yes this is the moment that gets me too yes right and it's one shot of her in bed stays there in silence while we're waiting for the kids to come in and

and she adjusts the hospital bed down to their height with no sort of like sadness she takes off the makeup like patsy's just been doing her makeup she takes it off right then she gets lower she's all sort of red cheeked and yeah yeah yeah but i knew york lady the unceremonial just lowering of the bed without any like you know you don't cut into a close-up of her going like you know this is true and she just goes about it and and she just has to so matter-of-factly say to them like look i'm not gonna make it i understand you hate me now right and that's the thing where she also needs to speech about like someday you're gonna feel bad she needs to address their future emotions about this very moment right and she doesn't really address the younger one because she knows he's not going to have as much memory of it and he's right but his response is kind of you know quote-unquote appropriate it is

so unsentimental it's like objective based like here's what i need to tell you right i think that went really well don't you that's the part where I start crying I think also the younger kid who I just want to point out is played by an actor

called Huckleberry Fox yes which is a fantastic name is more her you know I feel like they have a little more of a connection throughout the movie

like they get each other that kid gets it he wants to help in various scenes like you know he's a little more whereas like the older kids a little more rebellious a little more standoffish he's the older kid he was also really independent when he was depicted younger by that younger actor it's like he's that shot of him going out of the house yeah just sitting down love that where you're like is something about to happen like is he in trouble like and it's

you just sort of sits on the step but thank you for saving our marriage scene which is so good all in like everything about this what a good movie there's this thing about it too it's like we talk about her as a mother

but one of the things that I think is really radical about it as well again 35 years ago is her children are not the central figures in her emotional world

and even in their family it's about her and her husband and they are sort of spokes on that wheel who are affected but ultimately they kind of have to they're responsible for themselves you know being a mother is kind of treated like her career yeah you know it's like this is her career art but then they i mean but then what sets off shirley mclean is when he says that their mother was always too

lazy to look into cubs right was like she had one you know this idea of she had one job right yeah but she still didn't even do those things when of course we know that like she probably couldn't afford all that stuff. Right. And this movie is so good

at leaving stuff unstead because, and it would have been earned at this point, but he gets brownie points for not doing it when she runs back, grabs him,

and says, I can't listen to you talk about your mother that way. Right. Not now. I was like, here's going to be the big Oscar speech.

Sure. She goes like, you don't know what your mother did for you. Right. And now. I was like, here's going to be the big Oscar speech. She goes like, you don't know what your mother did for you. Right. And here's a three-page monologue. And instead, it's these characters who can't fucking

verbalize themselves. You know, they can't verbalize all the pieces of the rest of it. But she does, because she verbalizes exactly what she actually needs in that immediate moment.

There's an economy of language. I cannot have you criticizing her right now. And it doesn't require a speech. Like, he's not in any position to be taught anything.

She's not in any position to give a speech about it yeah but she can identify her immediate emotional need and she sets that boundary now it's the what not the why because we know the why because we've been watching the movie for two hours yeah um and and god that two shot of mclean and daniels when they realize that she's gone and McClane like is fucking losing it because she clearly thinks that she's gonna get the big Oscar scene with her daughter to totally make sense of their relationship before she dies and also thinks that will give her a sort of like relief and now it's just like nope it's just a moment and I think there's also a disbelief that it actually happened especially because not much was allocated to that in terms of the film, in terms of the scenes.

Like you talk about, we don't see her, you know, descent and whatnot. The strings aren't swelling. Yeah. It's just another night. She looks fine. And Daniels is just like dumbstruck. Right. Totally dumbstruck.

Like can't even process it. Well, he also, there's always this, there's a feeling I have with that character is if he always expected her to go one way or another, like she was going to leave him or something. You know what I mean? Like he never expected to have 30 more years with her. I also. And Shirley MacLaine did. I love that he never finds out about her affair. Oh, yeah.

I love it. That he will just go to his grave being like, she was so much better than me which she was yeah she never would have done something like what i did to her you know yeah and she she had her affair off of a suspicion which was probably correct i think she also had her affair off her affair off of a need a hundred percent that's the biggest thing right but was able to like justify it to herself is like flaps probably doing this. I need this. And Flap's probably not treating me any better. Yeah, she didn't seem to have any qualms about it when they're having that discussion in the diner.

No, and she's furious about the Janice thing without ever saying like, look, I get it. I was, you know, up to no good as well. But she does this before the Janice thing. She starts the affair before. And yet when the Janice thing rears its head, she's like, fuck you. Isn't there that moment in the hospital though? It's worse. It's worse.

He dragged the family there. Yeah, isn't there that moment in the hospital where he starts toars its head, she's like, fuck you. Isn't there that moment in the hospital? It's worse. It's worse. He dragged the family there. Yeah, isn't there that moment in the hospital where he starts to bring it up and she goes like, you're right, we shouldn't talk about our marriage right now. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like she doesn't want to have to admit it. Yeah, maybe that's part of it. And also it's like, what's the point at this point? I mean, that's what I think. That's the real thing.

Right, right. We don't need to keep having this argument that has no solution. It would be a knife twist. Right. We don't need to keep having this argument that has no solution. It would be a knife twist, right. Yeah, and then it ends with a funeral where every character is there just quietly trying to move on with their life. Flap finally breaks down. Nicholson reaches out to the rebellious boy who he sees something in. McClane gets a five-point comedy joke in there about nicholson picking up the

daughter um and and it like ends on her just kind of like wistfully laughing yeah it's it's not a depressing or a depressed no no funeral and a little laugh cut to blue yeah credits right like yeah right blockbuster america lines up around the block to see it a fifth time we'll talk about the box office in a second but also one best picture one of the few films we've covered that is one best picture yes and the only first film we've covered certainly sure we've covered one other best picture titanic titanic is there any others i don't think so you just call it titanic yeah the movie Titanic. He thinks that's funny.

I'm just checking. I feel like someone else called you out for that recently. Chris Gethard. Yes. I think because everyone wants to know if it's intentional and you think it's funny. He does. He does. It is and he does. It is intentional and he does think it's funny.

Yes and yes. That's true of almost anything Griffin does. Yeah. You're like, is that intentional and do you think that's funny? Yes and yes. I think sometimes he stumbles into things or he accidentally says things and then he commits to them he commits to choice never I can't even believe you would say that that has never happened as if I've ever misspoken and then doubled down to own it as a joke I've

never said anything unintentional never ever um this movie won five Oscars. Picture, director, screenplay, actress. And supporting actor. Oh, and supporting actor. It's good. Yeah? It's a movie. Big fan, huh? It's about as good as it gets, yeah. This movie is about...

How do you know? As good as it gets. Well, I heard that on the broadcast. Spanglish. Anytime. Ben, you like it? Yes. Have you seen it before?

No. I kind of love movies set in the 70s I think I was born in the wrong era yeah I think that's probably true mediocre white guy who likes to drink too much and smoke pot like I belong as a burnout dude

in the 70s also like the best films were made in the 70s so the second best films are dude in the 70s. Yeah. Also, like, the best films were made in the 70s, so the second best films are set in the 70s. Right. So we were saying this. Made and or set. We were saying this before we started recording, but how this movie makes both of us angry

that they don't make movies like this anymore. For sure. Yeah. And I feel like as a fan of movies, you feel that kind of anger where it's like, God, look at how confident they are in telling their story the way they want to with such delicacy and perception and all that. But also as an actor, I get furious that I'll never get to act in a movie like this.

Yeah, we won't. We probably won't. You might act in a TV show like this. Yeah, it's called The Tick. It's exactly like this. It's the Terms of Endearment of TV shows. Before we do the box office game, there's just one Oscar nomination I want to point out that blows my mind.

This film was nominated for best sound. Yeah, that's weird. That's a weird nomination. That tricky car in water. The music. Oh, that's true. Which we also, I don't feel like we fully investigated. Well, you really wanted to talk about how they start the sports car after

it is flooded. That shit is flooded. That shit is not starting. Yeah. But the stunt of throwing him from the car is very good. If you wanted me on my back, you could have just asked. Yes. Yes. It also is the most violent post-boob grab scene I've ever seen. And the fact that they stay in it for that long is great.

And then he gets it stuck in the... Oh, my God. And she's, like, twisting his wrist. Yeah, that's probably the most farcical moment. It's very... It's vaudevillian. Yes. And because she's holding it

on to her breast quite clearly. But also like trying to like judo flip him almost in the sand. Yeah. But the music by Michael Gore. Yeah.

What did you want to say, Benny? It rules. Sometimes it was a little Yeah, it grates sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes it's well executed. Other times you're like

what is that what is this he's the fame guy yeah he's that he was known for fame before this he did like the songs from fame right i like that the the score like sounds kind of like a jaunty like opening sitcom theme and then gets into this like very sad that's the thing i don't i don't like it because it's a little it does what the movie doesn't do, which is that it tries to tell you what to feel. The film never does that. The direction doesn't do it. It comes up a little loud where you're like, we're

fine. We're in the scene. Don't worry about it. I just think it's a banger. When I go to the club, I ask them to put on Terms of Endearment. Do that needle drop, you know? Can we play the box office game? Yeah. I think there's one other important thing we have to talk about. Yeah.

That this movie weirdly has its sequel. It does have a sequel. It doesn't exist and no one talks about it. Called The Evening Star. Am I correct? Correct. Yeah. Which I have not seen. Not directed by James L. Brooks.

No. Not written by James L. Brooks. But Shirley MacLaine's in it. And guess who else is in it? Jack Nicholson. Jack Nicholson showed up for this. Insane. In 1996.

Now. 96? Yeah, I don't think he does. I think he's probably in like one scene or something. I heard it's an extended cameo. Sure. Is it the scene where he sleeps with the granddaughter? Boy.

Because she is the other character, right? I think Juliette Lewis plays the granddaughter. It's Juliette Lewis. Juliette Lewis. Bill Paxton is in it, which I'm all for. Any Texan drama, I want Bill Paxton is in it, which I'm all for. Any Texan drama, like I want Bill Paxton. Miranda Richardson.

Nice. Like, it's a perfectly good cast. And, what's her name weirdly got a Golden Globe nomination for that movie? What's her name?

Who's the other person in the cast? Juliette Lewis. Shirley Jones? Miranda Richardson? No, not Shirley Jones. I'm going to find out

for you in one section. From the Partridge family. What's the name of the person? Marion Ross. From Happy Days. Happy Days. Yes, of course. I'm going to find out for you in one section. From the Partridge family. What's the name of the person? Marion Ross. From Happy Days. Happy Days. Yes, of course. Yes.

Yes. She's in Gilmore Girls, too. Miss C got nominated for Best Supporting Actress for that movie, which came out and bombed really fucking hard. It did. It did get a Society of Texas Film Critic Award nomination for Shirley MacLaine. A Lone Star? Exactly.

I want to watch it now. I really do. I kind of do too. It's similar length. It's 130 minutes. It was directed by someone called Robert Harling, who was the guy who had written Steel Magnolias. Right.

But he had never made him, directed a movie. He also wrote The First Wives Club and Soap Dish. So he was, you know, he had his lane. Lady movies. Can we talk about the other secret sauce of this movie? Yeah. Because there's a figure, if you go deep on 70s and 80s cinema, who keeps on popping up in the right places. Richard Marks?

Polly Platt. Oh, yeah, Polly Platt. Polly Platt, who was married to Peter Bogdanovich when he made good movies. And when he left her for Sybil shepherd he started making bad movies wow and he she was there for many big american filmmakers first films as a production designer eventually became a producer and became a big partner at gracie films james l brooks's company but was there for this say anything yep bottle rocket was kind of this like quiet hand to a lot of those people.

She was always out of the spotlight. There's very little like sort of footage of her, interviews with her. But everyone has always cited her as this like insane kind of guiding force for all these careers. And then they all kind of moved past her and then very often would not make, reach the same heights they did when she was with them. I'm so shocked by that narrative. Right? That's so surprising to me in every way. Polly Platt's a really fucking interesting figure.

If someone writes a whole fucking book about her at some point. Subtle. Too sarcasm. Ooh, I don't feel like those are good points. Those are good points. No, they're good. This movie opened number two

at the box office on 260 screens. And Return of the Jedi was number one? No, Return of the Jedi is already departed theaters. When does it come out? November 25th. Okay, so it's a Thanksgiving. It expands the next week. Okay.

But it opens number two to $3.4 million. Huge. Sure. It's going to gross $108, I think, domestic. Which today would be like

$300. $300. They made it for what, $8? Yes. Yes today would be like 300. 300. Insane. They made it for what, 8? Yes. It did quite well. That's pretty crazy like a time when it's like, okay, we open on 260 screens, make a hair under 4. This movie's looking pretty good. We're halfway back to making our budget back.

Yeah, right. And it's definitely going to win all the major Oscars. Right. Number 1 is a family cult classic Embarrassing confession I've never seen this film It's a family cult classic Have you seen this?

Of course Yeah, that's the kind of reaction you usually get From 1983 It's a holiday movie Holiday movie? It's not Christmas Vacation, is it? No You were close

Christmas Story? Boom Opened at number one? Really? This is its third week And last week No, this is its second week boom opened at number one really this is it's third week and last week no this is it's second week it opened at number three

rose to number one you've never seen a Christmas Story isn't that crazy yeah I'm shocked yeah for like one

like Christmas classic I've never seen I guess is it a choice at this point are you abstaining no I just never knew that this was the thing and then suddenly when I was a little older

I realized like everyone loves this movie and every network marathons it on christmas i was gonna say david's defense it's not like they ever show it on tnt i mean there aren't a lot of opportunities for him to watch it all right well i really did not want to do this but you know i did grow up in another country oh david you can't drop a bombshell on this this late in an episode we would need 45 minutes to dig into this. What are you talking about? Well, like Canada, right? Our neighbors next door, Canada.

You grew up in the United States of America. They would show this movie in Canada. What are you saying? In Britain. Britain. What? I grew up in London. You know that.

I've told you a million times. I've never... I've known this man. He calls it Britain, too. Five years I've known this man. One of my best friends. He's really fancy. I'm very fancy. Anyway, this movie is nothing to British people, so I think that might be part of it. I can attest to that. My husband

had never seen it until I watched it with him. That is true. There you go. It's just, yeah, it's an American classic. Endless sources of disappointment. He is from Britain. Yes. This is a bomb drop. that is true there you go it's just yeah it's an American classic endless sources of disappointment wait is your he is from Britain yes wow this is a bomb drop

I know he's never seen Thomas Van Dierman either wow I know hey can I tell you something crazy

when my insane Shirley MacLaine ass grandmother decided to rebrand herself as a European socialite you know who she married my biological grandfather I don't insane Shirley MacLaine-esque grandmother decided to rebrand herself as a European socialite?

You know who she married? My biological grandfather? I don't. An Englishman? I'm a quarter British, baby. Ben, what do you got? I'm just the whitest. I'm most American. You just look super English.

You do look. I'm just like a mutt from the island. You look like an artisanal potato farmer. I will take it. You look like the guy to bring potatoes back. I'm seeing more dairy, frankly. Oh, interesting. Like cheese, like from cheddar.

Okay. I make cheese, perhaps? Perhaps. I wouldn't be into that. A good, strong cheddar. A cheeseman. A cheeseman. A monger, if you will. A cheesemonger. Different thing, different profession. A good, strong cheddar. A cheeseman. A cheeseman. A monger, if you will.

A cheesemonger. Different thing. Different profession. A frumongier. I always thought Christmas Story bombed when it was the seller. It made $20 million,

which is not great. No, but I thought it did nothing and then the cult came later, but I guess it did okay. It did okay. Okay. Number three at the box office

is one of the other movies that was nominated for Best Picture this year. 1992. It's another movie that they probably just wouldn't make a movie of anymore. It would probably be a TV show. Did it win anything? I don't think so.

It got nominated for Best Picture. It had a famous soundtrack. A famous? As famous as Trimms Van Dierman's soundtrack. More. More. My mother owns this soundtrack on vinyl. Was it a musical or not?

No. It was one of those early movies where the soundtrack had all these rock hits and people actually bought it. The Big Chill? The Big Chill. The big Motown soundtrack. Yes. That's a great one. They used to have a place in New York called the Motown Cafe.

Sure. Which my dad loved because my dad's all about Motown. the Motown Cafe. Sure. Which my dad loved because my dad's all about Motown. It was like a horrible like hard rock type place

but my dad liked it because they had guys come out and pretend to be The Temptations. And so I would just look at all these like framed record albums they had and I always would be like

what the fuck are these white people doing on the wall? Like it was like all these great Motown records and then the Big Chill was like prominently displayed and I was like William Hurt did a Motown record?

Yeah he did. He did. He did. like, William Hurt did a Motown record? Yeah, he did. He did. He did. That's right. He did a Motown record. It was called The Big Chill. That was a huge album. Huge album, big movie.

Big Chill. Big Hurt. Real Big Chill. Yeah. Number four is a franchise film that is technically not part of the franchise that it is part of. Never Say Never Again? Correct. I mean, it's a specific clue, but how else do you describe that movie?

The one Bond book where the rights weren't. Which I believe is Thunderball? Yes. One of them is owned by someone else. The rights were split. The rights remain split as far as I know. So there's the official Bond, Roger Moore, Thunderball, but then the other half of the rights. No, it's Sean Connery.

Thunderball. I thought, no, because it's one of the ones. Are you sure about this? Yeah. I think that's a remake of a Roger Moore one done again with Sean Connery. They did the same book twice? Pretty sure. I'm looking it up now.

I've only ever seen one Bond movie ever. Yes. It is the second adaptation of Thunderball, which Connery had already done. What's the Bond movie you've seen? I'm not going to sound cool because it's Casino Royale. I know. That's insane. Which Connery had already done. What's the Bond movie you've seen? I'm not going to sound cool because it's Casino Royale. I mean, it's a good movie. Oh, it's... Yeah.

But yeah, that's it. That's it. They did this unofficial Bond movie with Sean Connery. Yes. That came out the same year as an official Bond movie. Right. With Max von Sydow as Blofeld. Yeah.

And it's like Connery with like a realow as Blofeld. Yeah. And it's like Connery with a real piece on his head. Yeah. Connery is 10 years removed from when he was Bond. Yes. And they're like, he's back, baby! And he's like, he's not into it. Weird movie. The title was his response when people would ask him if he ever played Bond again.

That's not something from the books. They were like, you ever play Bond again? He was like, never say never again. Great. And then they greenlit that interview response. Number five. Yes. Is a horror film, a horror film, a sequel.

Isn't that a Kershner movie too? Yes. Yeah. Okay. It's a horror film sequel. Is it a Freddy Krueger picture? No. It's a slightly lesser franchise

but does it have an iconic big bad no no i mean it doesn't have like a this is one of those things where the environment is the big bad is the environment a house that's right is it an amityville horror that's right which one though three three i know three oh oh i have to get me bill three d yes that's right they added another dimension i've never seen that one but i remember it is the poster is like a weird monster claw is coming out of the house which is weird haven't they made like 10 of those? They've made a lot. I've seen the first one.

Yeah. I don't think I've seen any of them. Right. Isn't the Conjuring essentially the same story but done realistically? Correct.

But there was another wasn't there another Amityville basically like the same year as Conjuring? It wasn't called Amityville.

Well they did remake it like with Ryan Reynolds like 10 years ago or so and there's a Jennifer Jason Leigh one that went straight to Google this year or last year

that is good that's gonna kill me I know what you're talking about you know what I'm talking about I do there's so many

haunted house movies the story is a guy from the office from Office Space whose name I can't remember Ron Livingston Ron Livingston that actually is very

Ron Livingston is in The Conjuring right is he in The Conjuring maybe The Conjuring is the Lily Taylor Ron Livingston? Ron Livingston, that actually is very familiar. He's in The Conjuring, right? Is he in The Conjuring? Maybe you're just thinking of him. The Conjuring is the Lily Taylor, Ron Livingston one. Maybe it's a different Ron Livingston.

Lily Taylor, Ron Livingston. One of those vehicles. Yeah. No, but that's one of those stories where it's vague enough where it's like some people lived in the house and they said it was spooky

that like 20 different movies have gone like, well, it's based on a true story. But The Conjuring is not one of the ones with the Vera Farmiga. It's both. No, it is.

Oh, Jesus. No, it is. Jesus, fuck. They're the investigators. Lily Taylor and Ron Livingston are... Are the hauntees. Yes. Maybe I separated them as two different horror movies in my mind. That's the appeal of The Conjuring films.

Because how can you have both Ron Livingston and Vera Farmiga in one film? It's also a franchise that gives you spooks and gives you a good marriage. And also, Annabelle is a spinoff, right? Right. But the real Annabelle is a Raggedy Ann doll. Right. We've talked about this extensively. Not a doll that looks spooky.

Some of the other movies in the top ten include The Smurfs and the Magic Flute. Oh, yes. All the Right Moves in which you see Tom Cruise's penis. You get a peek of the peen in that movie. It's actually not a bad movie actually not a bad dick either The Right Stuff which is a great movie I think there should be more penises in film

I'm looking for a quality I will completely support that there do need to be more penises get a couple dangs dangs now that's your word that's my hello f decide whether I want to say wang or dong, and now it's dangs. Now that's your word for penis. That's my hello fennel.

I have to call penises dangs now. Griffin, Griffin, what do you like? I like dangs. Educating Rita. That's right. That was happening in 83. We got educated. Exactly.

Richard Pryor's concert movie Here and Now. This seems like a fun week at the box office. Yeah. You know what's represented there? What? A variety of different types of film.

Fair enough. Yeah. No, but that's what's fun because we don't get that today. I know. Wait, you got your what?

Your fucking Transformers 52? You know what I'm saying? Ding. At the box office? Well, don't say ding. We have both Marvel and DC. That is true.

We do have some variety there good point yeah how could anyone object yeah yeah you get both Black Widow and Black Panther very different types of characters

yep yeah that's it I mean I'm done yeah it's a good movie and it's frustrating to watch what terms

did we just end the conversation on terms of endearment about Marvel. Yeah, we did. Let's bring it back around. Let's do that. Yeah.

Is there any filmmaker now who could make this movie? That could make this kind of movie? Is it even possible? I guess Abitau. Yeah. But I feel like... Oh.

Oh, no. Hard, no. He was trying to move in that direction. I'm saying... I think he failed, but he made this attempt. He might not make a movie

as good as Terms of Endearment, but he would make this movie. He would make this kind of a movie, like a fairly plotless movie about people. But I think all of the things that we found revolutionary about it, he would not do because it would be about,

as you say, mediocre, pot-smoking white guys like falling into opportunity that they fuck up but then still somehow get it back again. Right. Because it all works out in the end for again. Right. Right. Because it all works out in the end for us.

Yeah. Yeah. Heroes. No, but like the big sick is like the closest you get to this kind of thing and even it doesn't have the courage to go

as emotional, you know, as this. I mean. The big sick's pretty emotional. I mean, she's sick. Yeah, she, and it's a big sick. I mean, I'll,

I'll be topical and say like Lady Bird has qualities. Right. I agree, and it's a big set. I mean, I'll be topical and say, like, Lady Bird has qualities. Right, I agree. But that's an indie movie. But yes, absolutely. Okay, sure, sure, sure. But in the senses that we discussed, like, she has sexual experiences with various people, and it's not... It's not what the movie's about.

It's not what the movie's about. There's not repercussions that are... It's consistently funny without being jokey. And it's also like, yeah, and it also sort of explores this kind of like imperfect dynamic between her and her mother and whatnot. And how we're still drawn to the people that we are desperate to get away from.

Yes. It is weird to me that when morons discount her right off Lady Bird, they're like, yeah, but it's like Sly, it's just about a girl in high school. And I feel like to some stupid degree, yeah, to some stupid degree, yeah uh to some stupid degree terms of endearment needed like the big bad of cancer in the last 15 minutes in order to be like oh well that's but that's like a legitimate serious movie to validate its presence because that's the thing this movie won the oscar but it also won

like every critics award like it was a universally critics favorite like everyone was down with it and I think if it had just been a well observed mother and daughter relationship through the ages movie they might have been like yeah I mean it's well written

but come on it's not like it's a screenplay winner not a picture winner right which is what Lady Bird is probably going to be pigeonholed as

but these films yeah they don't get made at the studio level and Apatow was someone who seemed like he was trying to do it but he hasn't made a fucking talkie

in a couple years well he made Trainw a fucking talkie in a couple years. Well, he made Trainwreck. That was his last one. A couple years. Yeah. Was that 14? Yeah. He said he has a hard time getting films made now.

I believe it. That's why he's been doing more TV, and then the films he's been producing have been indies, because even at the studio level, he's like, I don't think I could get Bridesmaids greenlit today. That's pretty weird, considering that he made Trainwreck, which is not a particularly good movie

made a ton of money but it was a huge hit yeah so that's weird like he's been working less on his own films and pushing

yeah he's been doing a lot of like alright what about you what's your story but the people he's mentoring he's like let's go to HBO rather than let's go

to Universal yeah it's kind of dispiriting it's also just stupid it's just bad business like a movie like Lady Bird, that's like an incredibly profitable movie.

Oh, fuck. What's the, he's a British comedy actor, director, Richard. I.O.I. Yeah. Did you see the movie about a coming of age? Submarine.

Yeah, Submarine. That is so good. And that kind of is in this vein a little bit Yes Have you seen that movie? I haven't, no Great movie It's outstanding I feel like that's one of those ones

That always goes by on Netflix, you know Definitely worth watching Good movie There are people making films like this But that was funded with like British government money In other countries In other, right

And even like I wish fucking Lady Bird Was a movie that made 150 million dollars It made a lot of money It did And I'm not discounting its success. But it would be nice

if a movie like that wasn't pigeonholed as like, oh, that's good for an indie and was allowed to play at the same level as when dramas used to fucking make the same

amount of money as action movies. I miss it. I'm a baby. Oh, boy. Anyway, Lady Bird did very well. That's why we do television.

I know. That's why we do television. Speaking of the tick, season 1B. It's already happened. Get ready. The last time you're going to see me not be swole. Fair enough. Do you need a trainer?

Yeah. You want to get thick? Do you want to smoke cigarettes? Yeah. And do push-ups and I'll yell at you? Yeah, that sounds like a good plan. That is how I, you know, that's how you lose weight. Val, do you have anything else in the can uh well i don't know when it's being released yet i just

worked on a film uh very independent film as well called inherit the viper okay um yeah uh in alabama that's very good really good cast um about the sort of opioid epidemic. Hey. Yeah. Stuff. And no, I'm doing a bunch of work with my theater company in the spring on plugging. I'll plug a benefit. I'm going to plug a benefit. You're going to plug. I'm producing a benefit on March 30th in Red Hook. I think this is coming out in April.

No, I think it's coming out before then. No? No, it is. Shit, do I have enough time? Yes. Yeah, this comes out uh march 19th yeah okay march 30th uh in red hook at atelier roquette um we're having a second annual benefit this year it's gonna uh it's going to go to the times up legal defense fund and it's going to be

diverse artists from all over new york it's a big concert event it's also gonna be storytellers poets speakers whatnot stuff like that. Everyone go. I will go. Go and have a beautiful, healing, raging evening and just we'll raise money for Time's Up. And if I can get sappy

for a second. Here we go. I've said this to you a lot and you always brush it off and tell me not to say this. He's going to get weird now. I'm going to get weird. I would not have gotten cast

if it weren't for you. Wow. Is that true? You were the first person cast on the tape. I said his lines from behind him. She was feeding them to me, joined up the style through an earpiece. Val was the first person cast on the tick because you are, in pilot season,

a very hot commodity. Okay. No, and you auditioned early, and they want to cast the tick first, and then Arthur, and then Dot. I was almost the tick. I was so close. Right, because they want to cast the tick first and then arthur and then i was almost the tick i was so close right because they want to just put a pin in you they want to call dibs fucking peter so when he's british when i was in contention and and certain hot europe's were worried to hire someone who has was as negative famous as i am well it's

just the poison of anti-renewal. Sure. Yeah. Yes. They knew what comes with Griffin Newman. Right. The final thing to sort of sell them on me being able to do the show, because there wasn't a tick yet,

was to do the Dot and Arthur scenes with the two of us together. And you are a New York person, as I am. You agreed to fly out to LA in order to read with me. And in between the takes when we were filming, we started comparing notes on how pale we are. That's why we were cast together. And in between the takes when we were filming, we started comparing notes on how pale we are. That's why we were cast together. And they sent that to the network and said, look how much they already seem like siblings. They're so pasty.

But also, also, I think genuinely, I did a better job in that audition than I'd ever done before because Val is the absolute easiest person in the world to act with. She has that insane Debra Winger thing. I will say it. Shut up. Where everything she does is great. She has that insane Debra Winger thing. I will say it. Shut up. Where everything she does is

great. She's got that Debra Winger thing where she's constantly trying to kick us a crook. That's forever going to be the Debra Winger thing. You just do constantly until filming starts and then you're like, alright, alright, we're quitting, we're quitting. She also shoves you right before the shot starts. Right before they call action, she shoves you.

I do hit you too hard sometimes. You hit me very hard. We've gotten to fights over. No, the fight was weirdly, was me saying, it's fine, please let her keep hitting me. That makes it sound weird now. But do you remember, like, on set, they'd be like, you're punching too hard, and we had to be like, no, this is how, like, siblings, like, fight. Well, there was a lot of discussion about.

There were a lot of discussion about a lot of things. Not getting to be angry. Yes. Yeah. But you make acting very easy because you, like, literally have never had a false moment. It's insane watching you, like, take after take after take. Even if you try wildly different things, they're always spot on. That's very nice.

You're crazy good. I appreciate that because it's really a struggle to work with you. It is very difficult. Wow. I hear that. That's the main compliment I can give is that Val makes it look like I can kind of act it's honestly I think it's the fact

that you just inherently as a human and it's not true now I know it's not fucking true but you you have this ability to convince everyone around you

that you need to be protected and so everyone therefore protects you and that's that is a very canny observation but he doesn't fucking need it he's fine

he's fine this is orchestrated and she says that during interviews good people shouldn't feel bad he's fine I'm gonna hit him harder

he can take it don't be fooled yeah but you're the best actor I've ever worked with you're incredible wow yeah truly

thank you very much and the greatest podcast guest in the history of podcasting that's right yeah take that take that Gallagher on WTF

oh boy where are you going shots fired yep um That's right. Take that. Take that, Gallagher on WTF. Oh, boy. Where are you going? Shots fired. Yep. And look, what an incredible start to a filmography. What an incredible start to a miniseries. Yep. Clearly.

I can't wait to hear the As Good As It Gets episode. It's mostly about Star Wars. It's a wild episode. A lot of tangents in that one. We'll tease that one. A lot of Star Wars talking are as good as it gets. That might improve it, though.

Kind of. You know what? As good as it gets needed, it needed a little more Star Wars. Yeah. As good as it gets, or as I would call it, just good enough.

I like it more than you. You do. I like it. I think I'm with you. We haven't discussed it, but I think I'm with you on that. I'd make my case on that episode, probably.

I can't remember. Mostly we talk about Star Wars. Make more of a case for General Raddus. Yeah, exactly. RIP. Thank you very much for listening. Please remember to rate, review,

subscribe. Thanks to Ant Fraguto for our social media, Joe Bone and Pat Reynolds for artwork, Liam Montgomery for our theme song, March Madness, boy,

things are burning up. Of course, this week, we all know that. And G, golly whiz, what about? All right. I'm not doing that. And let's talk about the ding of this filmmaker.

Dang. Dang, you already messed it up. Now you can say ding or dang. God damn it. What if I call them ding-dangs? Sure. Okay. Great.

Go to Reddit, the blankies subreddit, blankies.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit. Ben, do you have something to say? Stay tuned for some burger reports. Oh, yeah. We're going to start throwing them at the end of episodes. Yeah, we've been doing it. So you'll hear them there. But just know so you don't delete the file before you get to that nice juicy burger report.

Right in, baby. Oh, Val, you've worked with some big people yeah you're a mover and shaker within the film industry oh yeah yeah we like to collect reports of people who have seen a famous true famous person a famous person yes like you a burger have you ever at a party on set right seen a famo eat a burger could be turkey could be lame could be cheese

ooh could be Sanchez god damn it Slider's included I was gonna say I know Slider but it was not like there are more famous people

I'm racking my brain for memories of Kevin Bacon eating burgers well so my question about oh my godacking my brain for memories of Kevin Bacon eating burgers well so my question about oh my god I thought you might bring up Kevin Bacon and I wanted to know

David's favorite actor my favorite actor if there was bacon on the burger I've never seen him eat a burger he's a very fit man sure he is he's a very trim

yes fit man but I did see James Purifoy eat sliders does that count of course yeah yeah most most famous people bring their own food

to things it's usually lentils is he a one bite or a two bite oh good point does the slider i mean one bite is all right he's not an animal he eats it with like a knife and fork probably yeah i'm a one bite guy no it's a two bite but somehow there's never any condiment on his fingers or his face that's the pure foie magic i went to a party the other night where i ate a slider that had so much grease on it i then i ordered a gin and tonic and i used the ice from the gin and tonic to wash my hands because the line from the bathroom was too long great and then someone came up to me and was like hi i'm the president of the network and i had to act like i was an adult um see you see how he's orchestrating this this performance making everyone worry about me valerie i'm very aware of griffin's whole persona he's never even seen an ice cube

let alone washed with one he grew up in manhattan he's a fancy boy downtown Downtown Griffey Nooms. Yes. Anyway, so your report is, I have seen James Purifoy eat a slider. I do know that one can put bacon on a burger, but I don't know if you can put a burger in a bacon. Yes. Sure. Yeah. I can't. That's that. And as always, watch out for those ding-dongs baby you did it wrong again

idiot thank you for calling the burger report hotline 802-8-BURGER please leave a message with your FAMO type of burger and location and we will try to put it on the podcast if we can. That's 802-8-BURGER. Hi, this is Travis from Knoxville, Tennessee.

Right before Death Proof came out, Quentin Tarantino came into a restaurant that I worked at, Cafe 4, in downtown Knoxville, which apparently Quentin Tarantino went to high school in Knoxville. That's why he puts a bunch of Tennessee or Knoxville shit in all his movies. He was apparently there filming some footage

for when the girls pick up the car. And he came into our restaurant. We used to do a burger special on Mondays for a $6 burger. Like a classic burger with a nice cheddar cheese, thick ground mustard. And he was there. It was really cool. That's it. When I was in Austin, Texas,

I was an editorial intern for one Terrence Malick and his production companies. And one time, usually we would get salads and wraps and healthy things. One time, we got P. Terry's, which is a local Austin burger chain. And yes, I saw Terrence Malick eat a cheeseburger.

I cannot confirm if there was any wind blowing or ethereal monologues, but sure ate that burger like a champ. So that's my thing. Do-do-do-do-do, burger report. This is nothing to do with anything, but I just felt the need to tell you and for the world to know

that Terrence Malick loves Diane Antwoord. The band, you know the band that was in Chappie? Loves them. Seriously. Like, one of his favorite bands. And it's so cool. And I want everyone to know that. So, and yes, he does in

fact really, really love Zoolander. Both those things are true. All right, that's all. Just wanted to share. Goodbye.