Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Ballad of Buster Scruggs with Paul Scheer & Jason Mantzoukas

Episode Date: November 16, 2025

Six segments. Four legendary movie podcasters. Three and a half hours of keeping David Sims away from his family. Welcome to our Ballad of Buster Scruggs episode! How Did This Get Made’s Paul Scheer and Jason Mantzoukas join the Two Friends to talk about the Coens’ final film together (as of this recording), a grab bag of western vignettes that could have been titled “A Million Ways to Die in the West” if Seth MacFarlane hadn’t already claimed it. We’re picking our favorite segments, chatting about the “wild west” of Netflix projects back when Scruggs was greenlit, and ranking the Coens’ filmography before we cover their solo directorial efforts. Oh, and Jason has a few bones to pick with Griffin and David about a certain section of the True Grit episode. Listen to How Did This Get Made - Grizzly II: Revenge w/ Jake Johnson Listen to the Coens on Fresh Air Check out the Parker Novels Check out the Darwyn Cook Parker novels graphic novel adaptation Listen to Telly Savalas’ Album Listen to Tim Blake Nelson on WTF Read Joshua Pease piece on Buster Scruggs Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Plank Jack with Griffin and David Black Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Black Jack There's just got to be a place up ahead Where men ain't low down and poker's played fair And if there weren't, what were all the podcasts about I'll see you there.

And we can podcast together and shake our heads over all the meanness and the used to be. I mean, that's nice. Very sweet. Yeah. It kind of speaks to this not being

like the most like, you know, zingy, quotable movie. I think the language in this movie is incredible, but you look at the quotes page and everything is a fucking

unbroken paragraph of dense old Western. It felt like I was walking into a Walt Disney World ride. Like, you know, it has that kind of like, well, well,

yeah, 100%. Paul, I mean, that might be part of why I find this movie so pleasant to watch. What a delight in this was. I find it so comforting to watch this movie. And yet the most famous line from this movie is first time, which is a perfect pithy to the point, crushes, has become a meme in its own right, which is funny. And despite this being a film that is only, what, seven years old?

Yeah, there you go. I do feel like the first time meme is almost like the Jeremiah Johnson meme, where 99% of people who use it could not tell you what movie it's up. be honest, I did not know it was a meme. Oh, yeah. It's a good... I don't know the Jeremiah Johnson meme. Okay, so that's a big one. Oh, boy. But you know what I'm pinned on the board. Half an hour of discussion.

No, but Jason is also not on social media. No, no, no, no. It's simply a fact of that I'm not in this world. You've never been on any of the things that would present to you as a sort of a graphical image format. No, no, he's not. History has really proven you right on your, on your abstinence. Oh, boy. So the Jeremiah Johnson meme is just the gif of, this from Jeremiah Johnson.

Sure, of course. RIP a legend. Right. And I think the thing about it, Paul, you don't need me to show you right. You don't know. Oh, I know very well. And I actually have a fact about it. What is it? So you use it to convey a kind of like grudging admirable. It's almost like a that'll do pig. But then, I don't know. I don't know what that is.

You're, you're back in it up with something. I'm talking James Cromwell and Babe. That weirdly has another meme. No, no. It hasn't been memeified. It feels like Jeremiah Johnson represents that kind of feel it. But the thing that has. But the thing that happens, I will say, every so often on Twitter, is you'll see someone post, I didn't realize this was Robert Redford. That's what I was going to say.

People don't know. Jack Alvinakis. Everyone thinks Galvanakis. Or they're just like, oh, it's just some guy because he looks so like full-faced and stuff. And you so rarely see him except that movie with that giant beard. Right. And that movie has kind of disappeared a little bit. I feel like.

I also think it's the sign of the times, right? Because there, I remember, this is the thing I always go back to, uh, during one of the Grammy performances, Kanye brought out Paul McCartney. So this gives you how far ago it was. And one of the things on Twitter that was going on very, uh, bigly, as our president might say, uh, was that, uh, people were like, I love that Kanye's giving new artists a chance to come out to the public. Like, who is, like they didn't know. He's using the platform. Yes, he's using, he's using. like you've, look, you found this older guy who's a regional act. This is a liver puttian.

And so I feel like that, like that, like going one step deeper is amazing. I find that with Jason and I on how did this get made. People are like, you guys run a show together? Like, yeah. Well, like you didn't do, you didn't even do like a brief Google search. Yeah. Like somebody said to me the other day. And genuinely, I was like an announcement I was in something.

And they're like, oh, that's amazing. You're starting acting. And I was like, all right. Like, and I said, like, at first I thought it was a bit. And I was like, it wasn't. And I was like, great. And I feel like that is kind of the way that a lot of people are approaching life.

Just blinders on. It's like, I like this thing. I'm not going to look to the left or the right of it. Well, it's so siloed. Everybody, everybody receives the thing that they get, and whether it's a meme or a podcast or whatever, they don't care to explore it any deeper or further. No.

No. And, right, first time is a self-contained statement. Oh, yeah. And his first time also that this is the first Coen Brothers that was not in theaters. True. Yeah. It got a very, very limited run. I was even looking it up.

Right. Even before Netflix was making the Glass Onion type. Exactly. Oh, some of the big shipping at a month. But that was the biggest they ever had. I still feel like even now when they give it the perfunctory run at the six theaters they own and a couple others and whatever, it usually plays for like three continuous weeks. And this was one week between.

playing in three theaters and going to Netflix. I'm very desperate to get into the dossier on this one because it had so, it went through so many permutations of what this would be. This was not meant to be a movie. This was meant to be a series. This was not meant. So that's what I want to get into. I'll settle those questions for it.

I love this. But before we do, Ben, if you don't mind, hit it. Oh my God. What? He came prepared with something. I need it louder, Ben. Yeah, crank it up. On the day true grit dropped, the blankies all gathered around

and gazed in wide wonder at all the Greek-American actors Griffin Day found. The two friends spoke up. Couldn't think of any off the dome. They forgot all about me that I was Greek to the bone. Greek to the bone. I got a bone. I got a bone. A bone, a bone to pick.

I got a bone to pick. That's it, Ben. Take it out. How dare you? Now, how do you have really mad at us about this? We had this coming. Now, I'm trying to remember that the exact, so we were, we were sort of saying like, can I just interrupt you for a second, David? It was, it was stabby and your guests.

We were talking about your guests. It was true. And we were asking him, do, how quick, how quick, how quick. A short is your run to be the number one. Excellent. That was very well executed. Also, I do want to call out that Ben texted me about an hour before record and said, weird request, do you have sunglasses?

Oh my God. I thought they were for him. I love it. But you were just wearing my toy masters of the universe sunglasses. By the way, I noticed the logos on the side. And I want to be very clear. This is a shout out to Zach Cherry. Of course.

This bit is a Zach Cherry bit from Doe Boy. Yes. He did it perfectly. He did it perfectly here. Thank you so much. I got his blessing. to do it. Do not worry. This is not stolen Valor. And by the way, I was wondering why you were reaching out to Zach Cherry because Jason asked me yesterday, do you have his information?

The machinations here. The Uber driver who drove me here for the 20 minutes I was in the car that I was rehearsing, singing along to the track. You were doing it out loud? Out loud must have thought I was insane. Did you warn him or did you just start? Zero. I talked to him not at all. Kudos to you. I don't talk to driver. That's the way he does it. Now, I'm a man of the train. And that's why we started about 30 minutes late. And you always talk to the conductor. I always am getting in there. You did not go in their little room.

I get in there just a moment. I know what's going on. My mom once told me, my mom works in hospitals and worked with a lot of psychiatric care patients at a certain point. And when she was working in New York City, she said, hey, I just want to tell you one thing. Never ride mass transit or get on a bus. Oh, interesting. She said all those people are suicidal and they're going to, they're on drugs. And I was like, well, that really is limited a majority of transportation.

transportation. I have to get around. But just to say never go on mass transit, that's so funny. Any form. Any form. But I am inclined to agree vis-a-vis buses. Sure. I agree with that.

Well, the thing about buses is you're not going to, in New York, you're not going to get anywhere too fast. No. But we're getting off track. We need to settle this issue. Okay. And we haven't introduced the show or I don't care. I don't care. I don't care.

I don't care. I've got a grievance that I am lodging. He's got a bone. I've got a bone. to pick. You guys with Stavi, who I could not be a bigger fan of, are talking about Yorgos, you're talking about True Grit, you're talking about Damon, and then you segue effortlessly into the Chris Nolan Odyssey that's coming up.

Right, that was it. Right, because he's saying there's not one Greek in there. There's no Greeks in it. You guys are like, well, who are the Greek American actors who could be in it? And you all came up at, like, blank. I am not only a regular guest on this show. I am your friend. And you are. Wow. You are. I am Greek. I am American. You're a Patreon subscriber. You give us money every month. We are on a text chain together. We're on a text chain.

This was a, I felt personally agreed. It was tough. I'll say, I'll say what I did. I'm going to admit what I did. Okay. I googled Greek American actors at the time. Oh, okay. Because I was also trying to do the like the true, like, who am I not thinking of? And I was doing it off the dome. Who should Chris have called? I believe it was, I believe you guys came up with Elias Codyus, who is Canadian.

Did we even say Galafinacus? I can't remember if we said here. You did not say Zach. I mean, Jeff said, Neapardalos, you said, Elias Codias, you said, Jen Aniston, who is half Greek. Jennifer Anderson is at the top when you Google. Oh, of course. Did we say Rita Wilson? I don't remember. She's up there. She's in there, though, for sure.

This is an interesting list. You didn't say Chris Diamatopolis. I was going to say that. Very great. Oh, that's a big mess. Very grief. He's got a name. Very great. Now, let's be clear, is Chris Nolan going to use any of us? in this movie? By the way, I want to see the Odyssey poster with just

those names on it. Just like me. Just Stavi. Just Christia Matalos. It'd be hard to get the text to everyone's fitting on it. I will tell you this. It's just a text poster.

I like the Fiona Apple album. I heard a great story about the Odyssey, which I think I can share because it's, it's, I think I can share this story. If it's at Homer Simpson wrote it, I think your wires got crossed.

Oh, wait. Peter Griffin wrote it. wait that way it was a little flashback like this no so i was shooting on the universal lot and i don't have you seen this but on tic-tok there was a lot of footage of the big ship from the odyssey in the water because they were shooting it in one of the tanks all practical all practical right yeah and if you got high enough on a hill uh or on the top of a parking structure at universal you could look down at the boat in the water now when they were shooting it was very heavily covered because they had a lot of lighting equipment

and stuff like that. Apparently production was furious that these images of a boat from hundreds and hundreds of feet away were released. And this is that post-trailer. Trailer had been released. We've seen the boat in the trailer.

That it was suggested that if they want to continue filming, that Universal would have to build a 75-foot-tall wall to block out any lookers on from this process. Bring in Mr. Nolan's wall. And then when they were told that that was impossible to do, build a, because it wasn't

just like, it was a large, it wasn't even like a put up a screen. It was like, oh, please build a wall. It was built that wall. Mr. Trump, please build that wall. Please build that wall to protect this ship. It was met with great disdain and anger that they could not immediately build a 75 foot tall wall. If I had been in that room I have the answer for them. Take that giant

minion. Move it over where he wants the wall. Universal got this giant minion. You can see from the highway. Take those seats out. Yeah. I can just read to you the Greek American actors. First I Google Greek actors and I got, I think, actors from Greece. Of course. All good.

So, Zach, Jennifer, people we were thought of. Tina Faye. Great. Comes up right away, obviously. Someone that you guys have struggled to name in the past, Melina Kanakaridis. Melina Kenakaridis It's about seven. It's about seven rows down here, but she's in there. John Stamos.

Oh, yeah. Oh, he's a classic. Greek yogurt. Now, I'd like to see him in the other. This one, this one I didn't know. Hank Azaria? Didn't know that either. Is he like maybe half?

Let's see. His grandparents on both sides are Sephardic Jews from Thessalonki. I love it. My dad's from Thessaloniki. Two quarters makes a half. Yeah. Now, Olympia Dukakis, who is dead? One of the greats.

RIP. That's pretty embarrassing of, there's maybe not an actor with a Greeker name than Olympia Dukakis But I mean like Nolan's not going to He can do a lot but he's not going to revive her I feel like you're skirting the issue David Dimitri Martin is in it right

Dimitri Martin is in the movie Yeah he is He does a power point He plays guitar He's so good and he made his own costume Mino Suvari I guess I never thought about it But there you go

I didn't know that Now this one surprises me Betty White Is she Greek? I have no idea That must be a stage name then right White? Well, I think White is her married name.

Okay. I mean... White is her... No, right is her name. Her name is Betty White, and her mother's name was Christine Kachikis, and indeed was Greek. I love it. Okay, all right. I love that. She's also

dead, so cannot appear yet. Unless there's some scenes with ghosts. I mean, but by the way, Nolan has figured out how to bring ghosts back. But they can't be photographed on IMAX. That's the hard thing. Because it's too loud. It's scary.

I was about to say, right. It's not that the camera can catch, but they're just like, oh. On the episode, you guys even mentioned someone playing Dionysus, which I do play on the Percy Jackson shows. That also didn't even remind you of me. I haven't watched the Percy Jackson show, because I've never read the book. Is that show full of Greeks? It's the, I'm the only Greek on that one, too. I was about to say, did they do the same cursory Greek representations?

You know, I apologize. Oh, thank you. I want to also say I'm sorry. I feel like David's been scurting this issue a little bit and redirecting it back to, who are other Greeks who should be in the auditing? Do you see what he did? He went straight to a document as if the document was to blame. Well, he did say that he Googled and got some wrong information.

I was trying to see. It is, I don't know. I'm not even on there. AI data. That's what I'm saying. I might take this up a little bit. Why are you not on here? Why is Chris Angel?

on here but he would be great surprising he would be good okay then fine then why is Spiro T. Agnew on here yes a famous Greek American actor wasn't in a couple things I guess he lied to the American people so all these people I believe that Spiro T. Agnew

was in Barney Miller one episode I am shocked Michael Chichlis yeah chickless is Greek I'm surprised that Zach isn't like so high I mean Zach is oh he's third oh okay so you just didn't read it oh okay that makes Who's the first person he says?

Jennifer Aniston. Have you heard of her? Yeah. I mean, I do feel like, how many times have you played a Greek guy? A handful. Like is Rafi canonically Greek? No. Oh, no. I've played everything else and Greek only a handful of types. I was about to say, I feel like, you got the Shaloo career. Oh, very much so. Yes. Very much so. They just drew a big circle on that world map and you're like, you're here.

Yes. Anything that the Mediterranean touches, you can play is, is what casting directors decided. And then they decided it later, you. You can't do that. We are just going to call. Forget that. Forget that. Forget that. No, I think I am sorry.

I apologize. Wow. And I think especially because I think the ultimate insult of it, if I can take ownership for this, is not only were we listing prominent Greek-American actors and we forgot to mention our friend. Not even friend of a show. Friend of the show, friend of our personhood. But also that in compiling the list that we left you off of, we say to Stavi like, yeah, this list is pretty shitty. You could very quickly be the greatest Greek actor in

Hollywood. By the way, he could. I'm not taking anything away from Stavi, who is fantastic. Here's what I want to say. I like Stavi a lot. I've been on his show. He's a great guy. I think this is a Stavi issue because he doesn't know that you're Greek. Stavis should know. You should know.

You should know. Here's what I'll say. I'm not laying this at Stavvy's feet only because I've never even met the man. Okay. And David and Griffin and I text frequently. You're not leaving it at his sandaled to go get him. We need to bridge this to me. I guess it's an L.A. New York.

It is a. I think it is in L.A. New York. You're here in New York. Maybe we will make this happen. I don't think you could handle recording at Stavis. Is it? Oh, why?

It's in his apartment and I think that you would have a problem with it. Yeah, maybe. He also lives in an egg factory. Oh, no. I've been there and I loved it had a great time. Not a chicken coop, an egg factory. Of all the things. So Paul knows Jason very well and works with him.

So it was like, Paul seems to have insight here. I could say to you that I don't think that if you just, yeah, I would not say you would feel comfortable going. I trust Paul to know exactly what I'm capable of withstanding. Sure. A lovely experience in every way. But it's, it's going to be right up your alley. The show will be great.

All right. You guys will also, I think, and I know, I'm not at all interested in making you feel bad. I'm also just for, we got to wear this like flavor slave where it's a clock. Here's the other thing. As I walk away from this, I'm also. Just so everybody knows, I'm not at all interested in this episode going long, in this being some sort of record setter. I'm here to talk about the movie, and that's that.

Train on the track. I know that I know that you guys don't necessarily listen to our podcast, but you overlapped recently with our podcast because we, in a recent episode, started establishing a group of young actors who are all in a cohort together. Okay. That we are calling. Yes. Right.

This is how it began that we are calling the geek squad. Okay. Or the G squad is technically a band, a K-pop band. It's also Ryan Gosling, fucking Giovanni Rabis. I'm trying to think of who was in Gangster Squad. Oh, my gosh, Sean Penn. Mackey, Mackey. I think Sean Penn's the villain.

He is, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mickey Cohen, I think. We went down with Jake Johnson. We went down a rabbit hole. Who's in the Geeks Squad and who's not? And I feel like you guys did a similar, you guys were creating a similar list.

So this is something I believe we could really team up on. And what we have kind of established in, which episode was this in, by the way? This was in the, uh, it was Grizzly to the Revenge. Got it, cool. And it is primarily a conversation of who is in the Geek Squad. Okay. We're talking Jacob Allerty.

We're talking Florence Pugh. We're talking Salome. There's been a lot of conversation because it was sort of like, who belongs who doesn't like we feel like uh like zendaya is out of the geek like she's kind of too cool she's that on the but the geek squad is not representing nerds right no yeah i understand what you're saying there's not that but like clen powell's not he's not geek squad no way but see i think what you're getting out even though he's the sort of a peer of these guys did you see brats the uh andrew mccarthy a brat pack document i yes i'm obsessed with i saw the movie about the dolls

with a big head. Yes, we did. We saw that too with a Z. But I feel like they all talk about that, that they got labeled in this way, these people who kept working together and would socialize together, even if not all 15 are going out to the same bar every night. And that some of them said, I don't want to be lumped in with this. And I feel like Zendaya is what we were talking about. I feel like Zendaya's kind of the Tom Cruz. I would say she's in there except she has like absolved

herself from him. Tommy Holland is Geeks Squad. Well, he would be if he wasn't with her. Well, that's what I think, too. There's a few things of what we're trying to figure out is, and this is the issue. And then we will talk about the best of the fact that, the fact that, and by the way, our fans absolutely hate it. What is, what, no, you know, I just pushed it. They hated the Geek Squad.

I have a hard out at some point. Okay, I pushed it. I said to, I said to Molly, I said, you still have a family, huh? You still doing that? You still doing that. The minute it started. You believe it. It's actually crazy the degree to which he's doing it, Jason.

Molly said to me, she said, remember, you have a heart out and I said, you got it. And then that's my assistant. And then, uh, and is maybe two minutes into the podcast, I texted her said, drop that. I canceled. I canceled. I canceled. I out. I was like, get rid of it. I think we could have gotten you out of here for it. I don't think so. I don't think so. Maybe not gotten you somewhere else. We haven't even introduced the podcast yet. We got to talk about the own. Can I, can I tell you the one thing? I had a dream about the podcast. And this is, this is what I said. Seek therapy. Uh, yeah. I said, I said, this is the Coen Brothers Mad TV. This thing.

Absolutely. This movie. Great. And that was, and that was in my dream and I'm bringing it to. I love it. I say this in a nice way. It also feels like them digging through the fridge a little bit. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but just being like, huh, we have these like leftover noodles.

But I had this exact same thought on this rewatch. I went, we all know. We all discussed this as the Cohen Brothers anthology film. Is this more the Coen Brothers sketch comedy movie? Yes, right. Is it there Monty Python in the meaning of life? It is a series of sketches built around. Like you just read the Lord of the Rings and then there's the appendixes.

The appendixes are interesting. Right. And sort of them being like, and here's like, yeah, here's what's laugh. It's like it's like thumbnail sketches, which I think it's like when you see a great art exhibit, you might see like, oh, this is what they did, you know, before they drew the Mona Lisa. Or you see elements of things. And I feel like, weird. It's just Leonardo Vinci's dick.

Yeah. It's a lot of dick-based stuff. With, like, just a clever smile. It feels like this dick's following me around the room. The thing for me is, like, the, how would he holes always looking at you regardless of where you are? That urethra is following me. Now, that should be a blank check poster. A draw, small drawing of the...

Da Vinci's Dick. Da Vinci's Dick. That's actually... With multiple art. It's a new down brown novel, and that's important. And Tom Hanks is circling. And what were you going to say? He's going to come back to reprise that character.

And he's meet, it's a crossover with the National Treasure movies. Oh, I love it. That would be funny if they both are like in parallel trying to get something. At odds with each other. Langdon and Gates. Yeah, kind of like a 21 Jump Street men and black thing. I wanted those things. I wanted that.

My friend Rodney Rothman was going to write that movie. Like, I'm desperate for somebody to do one of those. Tato's been talking it up again recently. He's been saying, I would do it tomorrow. The script is great. We still talk about it. Here's what I think was interesting, and without having seen Predator Badlands, the premise is, you know, the Predator is in the movie Badlands. Yes, and it's very slow, it's very dramatic.

I'm waiting for Predator Days of Heaven. That's when I think they're really going to crack in a Red Line. But there's a, it's a Whalen. The Sam Shepard character is just played by a Predator. Well, I heard. There's a Wayland, you talk. Tony robot in Predator Badlands. And I love that, like, that kind of subtle crossover is really nice, too,

because it builds a universe without having to, like, jam a man there, you know? And I feel like, just like letting universes exist are fun. And I feel like, you know, I think that that, we miss out on that. But now that everything's owned by three places, it feels like you would have a lot more. Oh, please. Four places. Come on. Hold on and breaking news.

Oh, it's now true. Oh, boy. It went from 4 to 2. This movie, this watch, I absolutely, like all of these movies that I've been rewatching with you guys. Some, you know, these are, for me, like the filmmakers of my lifetime. You know what I mean? The people for whom I started when I was a teenager watching them, discovering them, and watching those first bunch of movies, Miller's Crossing was the poster that hung in my college dorm.

Like, truly, the number of times I said to people, take your flunky and dangle is, like, shocking. Um, like I just was obsessed with the Cohen brothers. And it helped that they never, with a few exceptions, they never really faltered. And they constantly were exploring and examining stuff that I also was interested in detective novels, noir, shaggy, uh, detectives, like, uh, cruelty, man's vices. John Rift as a means to interrogate the human conditions and existentialism. And I would argue that even the ones where they miss. it was from a pure reason. Yeah.

Like, this is my argument here is I do believe that Netflix gave them a lot of money because this is early time in Netflix. And they were like, we want to make a big. They want the cred. We want to credit. And I feel like, let's also call out this as Anna Perna. Okay, yeah. I kind of forgotten.

Yes. Very important power player in the 2010s of cinema. Megan Ellison's company that was going to save. That was going to save cinema by bankrolling all of the young autores who the studios were like, no more we're going to give you money PTA. But right, there used to be a better Ellison child who with her father's money said... She still exists. Oh yeah.

And Apprentis still exists. She kind of exists in the shadows, though. Like, she's largely pulled back. Do they not have bond anymore? No. They don't. Okay. No, they don't have anything. Okay. But I felt like this is a movie and I was looking at it and trying to think about it. I don't want to say it in a

way that is mean. But it feels like it has a slight element of a cash grab where it's like, we're going to get a lot of money. Let's go do this thing that we kind of want to do, but we don't really have, but we can kind of, because it's not in the theater, we can kind of go and make this thing that is a little less formed than our other things. And I actually think that that was great because you get these like seven great vignettes. And it's like, it's the only, that's in a weird way how I feel like streaming movies should be. It's like, oh, this is stuff that you can't.

It should either be like bargain basement action garbage, right, like DTV kind of stuff, Or, right, like, kind of like, this is the squareest peg. And it will not fit, like, because this is an uncommercial movie. Like, you know, who's going to rush to this one? Same thing. Same thing. And in that, they did an even weirder release strategy with them. Right.

Well, they broke them up. You can listen to, you can watch them rather as individual pieces, which I would love it if this was as well. And in that way that you're calling it a sketch movie, which I agree. Because every segment has a punchline. That's what really jumped out for me this time. Well, these are funny. These are so.

in the way that the Coens, that Coen tone is so on display here. And the reality is like, I love the wraparounds because it is, like, the Coens, I feel like are always hearkening back to those things of their youth. And this is just Western Frontier stories, a book of short stories that are pulpy and fun that might appear in, like, Field and Stream magazine. With color prints. Yes, exactly. And I feel like it comes out of time, if I'm, correct me if I'm wrong, but in that time

where even, like, Quentin Tarantino is playing around with, like, doing this, like, with hateful aid or like he episodeified it yeah yes and and hateful eight does another thing when it goes to Netflix I was thinking about that where when that goes to Netflix he chapterizes it and makes it longer it makes it longer but more of a TV show and it's like interesting I love that breaking of form and that's like the benefit of streaming to me you know the trailer for his now connected kill built oh yes yes we're playing at the vista right whole bloody affair yeah I'm getting thrilled proper wide 35 and 70 release in December you know people pay money it's and it was at the vista it was packed all the time but it had French subtitles because it only it's the only right time

they ever did it was like hand right oh that's cool um but yes no it's the kind of experimentation I would like to see and in 2019 2018 a moment where you're like oh my god there's things like anna perna coming into the world going to filmmakers saying what's the thing that no one else will let you make giving them the money and when no one else would release it, Netflix goes, why not? Like, it felt like these, these kind of Maverick forces were actually opening up and letting weirder stuff get made. And as often is the case, it was like, that's what they used to legitimize themselves before they could just fucking get out of that business entire. Remember when Amazon's entire first batch of shows were all indie filmmakers and like interesting people like Steve Conrad,

with Stillman, right, like all, basically like going on. It was all. It was all. It was All those guys, Joey Solomon, yeah. Who had lost their key. And then they were like, J.K., we make Lord of the Rings for a billion dollars, and that's all we do. Well, I was so good. I mean, that really, we've been talking about. We love it.

Everybody. I can't stop watching it. I'm watching it right now. People stop me on the street and shake me to talk about the plot points of the Lord of the Stick. Where is the stick going from? Griffith David. Ben. Ben.

Bone Sound Inc. Worldwide. partnership with Plank Check Podcasts. I've heard with both of those companies. I've heard of both of those companies. I didn't approve whatever's about to be mentioned. I're proud to present Ben Hosley's Slow X-Mus 5. That's somehow Slow X-Mis has returned.

That's right. They slow now? For listeners out there living in a friggin' hole. Oh, boy. Ob no shade. S-X. Slow X-Mis is an annual compilation album of alternative and off-be-cru. Christmas music, but it got to be slow.

Now, this is not SSX, the snowboarding game. Sometimes it's tricky. This is just SX. It could be tricky. It could be tricky. Ben, you did in this copy that you provided us. Written copy. Written copy.

Use SX as shorthand. So you're trying to sort of coin an acronym here? This is the first time you've done that. I'm testing it out. Can we call this SXV? Yes. Okay. And now, am I wrong?

Is this the fifth time you've done this for, is it the sixth? It wasn't there like an episode zero or something? I started with slow X-Miss zero. Okay, okay, okay. Which is the natural way to start. It's a Godzilla minus one. Whenever I'm counting up, I'm like zero. Kind of situation.

Right. The second year's installment was Slow X-Miss volume one. Griff, can I read the next line of the copy, please? This year, Slow X-Mis-5 is being served cold. Burr, bundle up and sip away them holiday season blues with wintery ethereal tunes. David, Ben, our listeners I'd be going, yeah, I know, it's that time of the year,

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at 33 and a third I like that that's really fun that's really clever Ben can you tell us about the lineup this year It's featuring Holiday Standards and Originals from the Meridian Brothers, Shannon Lay, Zach Cooper of Grammy Award-winning King Garvish,

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Ice, cold, burr. And for any worldwide blankies interested, international shipping is available but for the vinyl record only. Once again, all three products are available right now at made by mutant.com. All right. Anyway, thanks, guys. Burr.

You know what, Griffin? Why don't you introduce the podcast? Oh, do we have to? We should just... There's something more important we have to do first. We have to revisit the conversation about the geek squad because for me... Oh, yeah.

David's so upset. I thought we were... Much like the John Hughes films were kind of the centering force. We had big guys in our podcast. We won't even introduce it. They started the conversation. We have to finish it. To your point, what we were talking about,

was that a lot of people in that documentary and don't want to be associated with the Brad Pack are so butt hurt that they are lumped into this thing. And some people are like, yeah, who cares? They called us the Brad Pack, who cares? The Brad Pack, to me, was the funniest documentary because- It helped all of our careers. Yeah, yes.

And, like, but not Andrew McCarthy. And that's who's making the documentary. But he's the one who pushed back against it the most, which is what's interesting. Right, because no one thought they were brats. He's clearly obsessed with it. Yes, well, because he believes that his career was hurt by it. And I feel like-

He got put in a bucket and he had presented. Right. And, and, but you could argue, he made, put me in a bucket. Put me in a bucket of Greek actors. How about put me in a Greek American actor bucket? Well, you'll never, my friends might recognize. You'll never think it's going to be full of yogurt that's very heavy. It's like, but yeah, I feel like, um, like, I feel like that's, like, he also made bad movies. Like, and that's the other thing, too. It's not like, oh, Andrew McCarthy made these three great films. And here's the biggest joke of it all. St. Almost Fire, not a good movie.

St. Elmo's Fire is ass. That movie sucks. People are nostalgic for it and obviously I wasn't there. Right, but it's like, for people in a certain age were like, this speaks to us, but it wasn't good. It doesn't last. It wasn't like, these are great actors. It was like, this is a shitty movie, but it captured a moment where we actually wanted to see

all these people together. Well, there's a combination of I think the word brat felt pejorative to them and they didn't like the idea that they felt like it was taking them less seriously as actors. Unsurprisingly, you see Demi Moore who's just like, look, This is an industry that looks for handles and hooks. Like, if they want to use this to, like, identify me, then I'm run with it and I'm working

harder to prove myself beyond that, rather than fighting it off. But these labels, I mean, like, so, like, comfortable. Oh, my God. It was the best time of my life. And his response to it was comically hilarious. Like, and I love that Judd Nelson was like, I'm not going to even dignify this with being in. I'm not, yeah, won't even be in this. Sorry, what were you saying, David?

Well, these names are usually somewhat, like Frat Pack was also, like, it's a bit of a weird label. Geek Squad isn't exactly like the nicest thing to call people. The reason why we call Geek Squad, because it does, it may be confusing. We're using Geek Squad as the best bite. The person that bites the head off of the chicken at the carnivores. No, no, no. It wasn't. We were calling it more like the best by Geek Squad because they're people who help older people use their technology.

So these are young actors who are bringing older people into the best. I'm rubbing my hands together. I get it. I see the vision. You know what the geek squad does? The geek squad plays Bob Dylan so that the boomers go to the movie. That is what we're talking about. And it's like they're not like that kid.

He's good. You know, I like Elvis. The kid who played Elvis. Yeah, that guy was good. He looks like Elvis to me. Classic Austin Butler, Geek Squad. We've talked about a little bit. You do?

I have, yes. Can I just say this before you start reading the list? Since I have talked about this, I feel like never on Mike. But for me, the core of what? what you're talking about, I've never had a name for it, is three concentric circles that makes up the majority. I agree. It is the cast of Dune. Yes. The younger cast of once upon time in Hollywood. Yes. And Eucharie. Those are the three center rings in the circus. And you are, that is perfectly said. And I believe that that's where we. There might be a few outliers,

but for the most part, you got it. Shalame being the number one where any Hollywood producer would be like zero things about this guy communicate A-list movie star to me. How does he never fail? Like this is, like, I'll give you a couple of the names. Yeah. Timothy Shallamee, right? Obviously, right there. Austin Butler, right? The bear.

Oh, no. We took the bear out. We took, yeah, Jeremy out by now. Because of shameless. But we put in a lordie. Yeah. Margaret Qualley. Big time. Jenna Ortega, which we felt like was, you know, and then, and there was a,

And then there's these debates, like, we already said no to Glenn Powell. He's not a part of that crew. No. Sidney, not a part of that crew, even though she's in, really. She's in, because it's like, you need to leave more. She's kind of doing her own thing. With that new movie, the boxing movie, it may change it, but I feel like she's on the, she's over here.

She's also in two out of the three of the circles. Yeah. And I also, I'm like, is she like Hussack where you're like, oh, interesting. He was in the movies with them and was doing his own thing that was very lateral to them, but you don't really put him. He's also best friends with the Pivens. Best friends with the Pivins. Chicago actress.

Yeah, Geeks Squad. Only post great politics. Oh, my God. Yeah. Geek Squad is like, and you're right, it is all of these people and all of the kind of infrastructure around them that is making all of these nonsense movies. And I think it's important that they work together a lot, that they feel like a class that has risen together, that they're unified by certain filmmakers and certain subjects and

whatever, because that's where these things happen of like there's an energy being. transmitted, at times the collaboration, at times the competitiveness. Well, it was interesting because we talked about Nicholas Holt. And we're like, well, does he fall into this? And we're like, not really because he's been around too long. I think like Nick Holt, the Fannings, they've just had huge careers. They're not part of geek squad. And they started young and it also, they were sort of like geek squad before there was

a geek squad. They were sort of running independently because there wasn't. To harken back to True Grit, I don't think Haley Steinfeld is a geek squad. There's a great. She's a young Avengers. You guys didn't mention, yeah, that's true. You guys didn't mention this in the episode, but I have a couple of Cohen stuff that I,

from different episodes that I just want to mention. More bones? This is not a bone. This is just one of the things that, a couple of things that I've loved in interviews that, like I said, I'm obsessed with the Coins. In True Grit, there is a great fresh air interview with them, and they talked about how on True Grit,

there were more rules protecting them putting the horses in the Cold River than there were protecting them from putting a Haley Stein-Fellon. They were like, she could spend more time in the water than the horses. And that that was like a crazy thing. The other thing that I love about them, and this is from years ago, there was a podcast called Creative Screenwriting, where the guy would ask the same questions to screenwriters, and one of which is, what do you do when you come up against Writers' Block?

And the Cohen's answer was, we go to our respective offices and we take a nap. And when we wake up, usually one of us has a solution. I love that. And they jack it. They're not saying they jack it down. You got a jacket. Yep. You jack it down.

You jack it down. No, that's great. You got to alleviate your erection to then come back and have a more fluid idea. Leave yourself of your power so you can focus on your art. Yep. Get the poison out. Get the poison out. Now, I guess.

Oh, yeah, go ahead. Introduce our podcast. Quickly. Grudgingly. It can happen. It can happen. It's just blank test. I think the last time it was an hour in.

We're only 36 minutes. You know, the first time it was. The first time it was. first time it never happened. The first time it never happened. The first time the show was never introduced. That's good podcast. That's actually elite podcast.

Was that used cars? Yes. Yes. Because used cars, big trouble. That's it. No, well, uh, oh, as the duo. Yeah, yeah. Each of us have done interviews.

You guys haven't been on since big trouble. What's the other one I'm forgetting? There's another one that happened last year. Yes. Yeah, there was. Last action hero. Yes. Oh, that's right.

I'm so sorry. No, you're absolutely. Zoom. Yes. I'm so sorry. Well, we've always been on Zoom. We've been on,

which is so great to have you guys in the... In the studio. You came in the studio once before for a watch-along of a James Bond. Tomorrow never dies. Tomorrow never dies. And of course, we talked to Paul million years ago for running scared. That's true.

Oh, yeah. That was a million years ago. Not in-person episode. Wow. We carved out an exception, only for you. I appreciate that. And that was, and I'm happy to talk about that movie because I still believe that that is a great template for

action comedy. I agree. And it's so hard. to find that balance still to this day. It has gotten worse in the years since we talked about that movie, especially as it become the domain of streaming services? Well, I mean, and I'm going to tell you,

I have not watched yet so I can speak to it. I'm too scared to watch the Shane, okay. Play dirty. Yeah. I've seen it, and I'll talk about it. I talked to, yeah, I talked to Ed Brubaker a bunch about it. The great Ed Brubing. The great friend of the show.

Yes, the great. Friend of the show, we love him. This is the Shane Black Play Dirty movie that's the adaptation of the Parker one of the Parker books. Or a couple of the podcast. I got him distracted. Go on.

I just introduced a showing of Kiss Kiss, Kiss Bang, at the best. The Nighthawk this week. The greatest. I was thinking about one of the great,

true. And have you seen Play Dirty? No, and that's what I was saying. I was like, I can't believe he has a movie. I could watch it on my TV anytime. But that was my,

I was nervous. I was nervous. I would, I want to recommend the Parker books. I especially want to recommend the Darwin Cook graphic novel adaptations of the Parker books, which are unreal and beautiful, and Ed Brubaker helps put them out.

Rest in peace. Our IP, a legend, Darwin Cook, his catwoman is amazing. Incredible. Incredible. Incredible. Incredible. Like a lot of great shit. Next level.

Anyway. Which I believe New Frontier's is the basis of what James Gunn is going. I think the-Gun is drafting off that. It seems like, and he's smart. Yeah. I think so. I really enjoyed Play Dirty. Oh, great.

And the stuff that didn't work for me felt like some VFX stuff was kind of like mushy and not great. And I ended up being, there were certain moments that I was like, oh, this didn't need to be so VFX. This could have been a smaller moment. But nonetheless. Nice guys, which I adore. Yeah. Has a couple of those things where I'm like, this is. This action sequence didn't mean need to be quite this big.

Yes. This has a little bit of that. I have a feeling that studio notes going, make it bigger. And then you can see. the product that he didn't really care to make it bigger and he's like, yeah, is that work great? Because it's still a small time Parker heist kind of grind

and Walberg, it was supposed to be Downey Jr. Yeah, it was a Downey Jr. Theatrical. And I don't mind that it's not Downey Jr. Because Parker is such a fucking asshole. Good Walbroke. Parker and Wahlberg, Parker is a brutal, absolute, ruthless, humorless,

charmless person. And Downey Jr. is not at all. all that. And Walberg does a good job of that. But I have seen and heard criticism where people are like, oh, he's just so unlikable. He's just blah, blah, blah. I feel like it's Parker.

But I do feel like that's, do you have any relationship with Walberg at this point? I mean, you made the movie with them. From the movie Infinite, where I played The Artisan. You did play The Artistian. And by the way, again, now I'm going to have to come on with a song. And I was in Daddy's Home. Oh, yeah.

And that's right. We're in Daddy's home. But I mean, is he a guy who's like, hey, Jason. Nope. Come see Parker. That wasn't on me. I was on him. It doesn't seem like his vibe. He is not at all a person who is like, hey, Jason, and I think if you were to show him my picture and be like, who is this?

Right. He would be like, I might have no idea. Would he be like, I might have so generic. Yeah, you also, nobody looks like. You know what? And you're always changing the way you dress or like, you know. If you've shown a picture of you, I bet you what he would do is pray on it and figure out of that. But he turned up on hollers. He has this nervy vibe on screen now that he didn't. I mean, he's always been a little dapped. But, like, I do feel like with him on screen lately, I'm like, are you having fun? Like, you always seem so bummed out. This is what I will say about him. Sure. And I, it's with very few actors, they're either great, terrible, or, like, you don't know what you're going to. Famine. I completely agree.

And it's like, and sometimes it's like, I don't even understand. Like, and I think it's a lot about the director. And I think if the director is hard on him or put or really has a point of view, you get a great performance. if it's like Max Payne and it's like I'm just going to show up and do my like because Sam Jackson can do that Max Payne is such a good call. That's where he's like the whole movie you can film being like what the fuck is this? Why am I in this? No reason for it.

And it's like and so I feel like that kind of like when he decides he's going to direct himself, I think that's when you get the bad Mark Wahlberg. Whereas like Sam Jackson, I think from stories I've heard will decide to direct himself and always delivers. Delivered this as well. I have heard him say out loud at a bar. That motherfucker tried to read my lines to me. Oh, my God.

About a director. The Walberg thing that is interesting to me is, like, we have covered many films in which an otter tries to cast him against type to disastrous results, right? Like, truth about Charlie, the happening, Planet of the Apes to a degree. There was another one I was just thinking about, but, like, lovely bones is obviously one of these that we haven't covered yet, right? and then there's like smart directors we will have to cover it we will cover it someday

that's an F smart directors casting him intelligently right right yeah understanding departed is like a great exactly but the whole magic of departed is he doesn't want that role totally that's why he's so good at it right you can feel him looking at Leah being like I could do what you're doing similar with fucking boogie nights he's never stopped apologizing to Jesus for being in boogie nights

and it's right the fact that both he and Bert Reynolds do not want to have been in that movie. It's like a peak for both of them. What's fascinating about him is you're like, of course he's bad when directors misunderstand how to use him. And of course he's great when directors are really smart about a slightly unconventional way to use him and to harness his energy.

The middle is the part that's confounding where you're like, hey, Mark Wahlberg, play a cop in a movie that costs $40 million. He should be okay at this, right? Right. And he just bottoms out. I mean, Spencer, I think the reason why I've had a hard time, turning on this film is because of Spencer for hire,

which I was like, oh. What a miss. Because it seems to me like, what an opportunity. What, like, that could have been a great fun franchise. Those, those books, those stories, hard-boiled, Pete Berg, like, I was like, I'm going to love Boston. But that was sort of the beginning of me being like, I think Pete Berg might just not be, I used to love the stuff he was.

Well, yeah, when he was a Michael Bay acolyte, you know. Pete Berg seems like he likes to fly and LAPD flown helicopters. and show off guns on Instagram. Like, you know, not even in a, just in a way, like, this is cool. Like, it's like, yeah. When the announcement is Robert Downey Jr. is re-teaming with Shane Black to do an adaptation of, like, a legendary noir character. For theaters, you're like, that's what I want everyone in that sentence to be doing.

And then when it becomes, Shane Black is doing a streaming crime movie with Mark Wahlberg, it immediately feels like, yeah, I know what that is. Yeah. I've seen that a ton of times, even if it's the better version of that. Totally. I have also only heard good things from everyone who's seen it with the qualifier of there is some stuff in it that feels like streaming bullshit.

Is it as good as kiss, kiss bang, bang? No, but is it unsuccessful? Not at all. I had a blast. You see, the movie that I feel like I like that I'm now going to be embarrassed to admit it to you all because I feel like no one liked it, but it kind of scratched that same it was,

was it called the Instigators? It was like a Boston movie. Oh, the DNA. Yeah, that was something that bounced. It was, it was a, is that a COVID movie? Did that movie get bounced? It feels like it should have been. It's PCF like, right.

It's like a 2024 Apple TV movie. And I remember being hyped for it just like trashy fun and it kind of bounced off me in that streaming way of like, if you don't get me quick, I'm kind of. Right. I think I watch it on a plane. I'm okay with the. Maybe good on a plane. But I think what the difference is. It's a porch movie.

It is a porch movie. It's trying for that. Thank you. Well. And I add it to my list. Because we have two guests in the studio today, I'm not introducing them. Paul is at Ben's usual desk. I know.

I feel uncomfortable about it. Ben has assembled an ad hoc setup, including a mic being held together with duct tape. Oh, you had to mention that. No, because it has porch vibes in a good way. It is, that is a porch vibe thing. And you should have had your can taped to it as well. Like, I feel like, like a can cozy. Like, I feel like there should be like, I made this.

I didn't have to buy a cup holder for $2 on Amazon. He has like an ad hoc, like, producing engineer set up on the AV cart with a half-built Lego Batman movie Joker Manchin underneath it and a duct tape mic. It's perfect. The microphone. It looks good. And I use the one that Sims broke. Okay. Well. And so I had to throw something together. It's good. I love it. During one of his Sims temper tantrum

during I was I was trashing the place. I said the word Juilliard and Sims ripped microphone. You're like prime time letterman after a bad show. Look at the pencils in the ceiling But I was going to say So many people in the audience are like Who's Letterman? I was going to say

The guy from the nodding beard meme? I don't even know what that is. I'm learning so much about memes today. But Mark Wahlberg is an actor that in a movie that may bounce off you feels like he's giving it his all. And I feel like that's the difference. Like I don't ever feel like Mark Wahlberg

even when he's on entourage coming. I'm going to need you to watch the Infinite. Wait, oh, no, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm saying the wrong person. Matt Damon. Oh, sorry, Matt Damon. Sorry, Matt Damon is the guy who I feel like is the anti-Wallberg because he is, it's always interesting.

It's like, oh. Damon has always given everything 100%. This is what you guys were saying on the True Grid episode is there are so many different categories of Damon and he is successful in every one of them. Damon as leading man. Damon as supporting character as as a cameo in a side character

in a movie like Interstellar, those are all successful. The one thing I'm very interesting, because you look at Walberg's career of late, and it's this mix of stuff like Infinite, sort of straight to streaming. I know that was not intended for streaming COVID casualty. It would have been, it still would feel that way if it wasn't. So there's some sort of be doing in theaters. Somewhat

anonymous action stuff that he looks kind of Because let me be clear, it is an Antoine Fukuwa movie that cost well over $100 million and was a blast to make. Right. I had so much fun. That's the panic fire. That movie got caught up in the panic fire of everything's streaming. Just that's the only way.

And thank God for Tom Cruise is the only one who was able to control. I mean, that was, he was the only movie that did not go to streaming that was done. Do you remember that announcement? it was like parallel with the Warner Bros. Project Popcorn, every movie is going to HBO Max Day and date. Paramount announced that every theatrical release of theirs would be on Paramount Plus within two weeks. And they had forced Cruz's hand and made the announcement

where they were trying to force his hand. They publicly announced, and that will also apply to Top Gun Maverick. And he was like, it will not. Like they had tried to get him to throw it on Paramount Plus in 2020, in 2021. He holds it to 22. and they were like, sure, it comes up on Memorial Day. It will be on Paramount Plus by June. And he was like, no, it will.

And, you know, and I will say that he continues to hold it tight because even Mission Impossible, the final reckoning, he held that from VOD for way longer than any other film. I spent five months waiting on my fucking steelbook pre-order to come through. And I was, I came the other day, it was like, oh, well, and you know what? I'll tell you this much. I was brought in. I was brought in to.

David's had a great time. I had to host, I didn't have to. I was hosting a screening of the Final Reckoning. You had the privilege? I had the privilege. And I was shown footage of the movie and I had to get my reaction to it. But they showed a documentary about that biplane scene. That shit is unimpeachably.

It's unbelievable. Two perfect sequences in that movie. Never have seen it since it's not on the DVD. It's not on the steel book. Fuck. Oh, the thing they showed you. The thing they showed me, I don't know why. because it's similar.

What's on the DVD is similar, but the footage is different. And I was like, why is this not out there? Because it was one of truly the most thrilling things I've ever seen. Yeah. It actually makes it look way more dangerous than the documentary does. David, will you please get back to what's on the computer? I wanted to finish my point about Warburg.

Yes, before we introduce this podcast. So half streaming garbage, half this sort of inspirational stuff he'll do, like family plan, Arthur the King, the one where he's with. What plans more dumb family comedy? It's not inspiration. But there's a family drama. It's inspiration. It's closer to murder mystery.

But I mean, where does the movie with Tofer Grace and the airplane fall? That's, well, that's inspirational because Mel Gibson is his Lord and Savior. Oh, God. But that was at least, I mean, that movie doesn't work, but I guess that's sort of like, I guess I want you doing this kind of stuff,

like playing big, being a villain. Yes. But he has a movie coming up called By All Means in, I think, 2026, directed by Elegance Bratton, who made that movie, The Inspection, a very solid debut, I thought, where he plays Gregory Scarpa, who is, like, a famous mafioso who went informant in, like, the 70s or 60s or whatever. With, like, Mark Wahlberg, Yaya, Abdul Mateen.

Yes. Sounds, you know. I'm in. David Sritha. This just kind of sounds like something. Yeah. This is something where I'm like, okay. Do you think, this is the other thing about him.

what I've been thinking about with him. I know he's trying to launch that Vegas or that Nevada Warner Brothers or whatever that is. Do you think you just had to avoid anything interesting while he was doing that? I think he's like, let's shit out as many of the like, boom, boom, boom. Just kind of keep the boring Wahlberg pipeline for a while. Raising money, working with more investment companies, building more capital. They all feel like some of them feel like real direct to DVD, but then you can go, oh, but a year ago he did a hundred million dollar move.

Like, it's like, yeah, I feel, but I feel like that studio has failed. It seems like it, but it definitely felt like he was trying to start an entire side industry. Like he was trying to Tyler Perry it. And they, and they, oh, but it was also under the Warner Brothers banner or it was like it was a big studio banner and they had moved things out there. And it actually, I thought in many respects made sense. Like, all right, well, they have a tax credit. You have land. You can go shoot this thing.

And I guess maybe at the end of the day, if he's not. the face of it, maybe it doesn't take off as much. I don't know. It's interesting because we have to remember, it's not that long ago that he was considered one of the most successful producers in town. Boardwalk Empire, entourage. That whole HBO run

was like, oh, Mark Wahlberg and that company are producing on a huge level. Maybe he is someone to go in on it with. Introduce our podcast. I really was trying to win it for the hour, Mark. We have to stop talking about Mark Wahlberg. He's not in this movie. Wait, wait, he's not in this movie. Is he definitely not on this

Can we check the castes? Yeah, it's not in it. He's not in the girl who got rattled. Introduce the podcast. By the way, can we talk about that now? Yeah, we're both doing the same thing. He also has a clothing brand called. Introduce the podcast.

But by the way, so when I was at, I went to the Celtics game the other night, and he has a special branding deal with the Bruins and the Celtics, only municipal clothes there. And I was like, and I looked at the quality of it. That's a good call. Introduce the podcast. I do want to talk about this movie a little bit. Yes, I worked with this movie a lot. Well, then you're wasting time.

I'm getting serious. I'm getting serious. Because I am going to have to leave and you're wasting time. Ben, can you read what the logo? You know when I have to leave. You know how my life works. Let's introduce the show. I am now officially really annoyed.

I'm going to be honest with you. Oh, boy. Let's go. Not with you guys, with him. With me? Yes, with you. Not with that. I said, introduce the podcast.

You're like, oh, I was really hoping to get to an hour. Why? Let's go. Let's talk. Now you are. Now you're holding him back. Now you are. Who am I holding back?

This is blank check, the show about filmographies, the directors and who are given a blank check. Yeah, yeah. And the movies that they make as a result, sometimes those movies hit and sometimes they don't, baby. I mean, that was basically fine. Bounce, sometimes they bounce. Sorry, sorry. I didn't know I was going to do it. Who are our guests?

This is just like that episode with Getherd where he has Jimmy Fallon. I think about it all the time. Do you remember that one? What, you think we're blowing it on this, on that level? No, no, not on that level where I'm like, we have great guests. And then it's like, we're having to choose the show. We haven't introduced the show. Don't in our end.

Here's the thing. David, the show has been happening. Everyone's been loving. I do feel like this is the problem sometimes with podcasting. It's like, you're not tuning in. You didn't tune in. Go like, I'm confused. You know, it just showed up in your feed.

You know what you're listening to before you have. You know who the guests are. Yeah. It's true. You do. That always does make me laugh with like. And we haven't introduced our guests. And I'm like,

The app tells you. It's been doing that. You're the one doing that right now. Well, here's what I'm going to say. The shift to video podcasts now, I'm looking, like, when the dough boys have a guest and the person is on camera sitting there waiting to be introduced, I'm like, introduce them now immediately. I never thought about that.

Change the format. I think the first sense has to be our guest today. Yeah, immediately. Or do you have them just have a better shot? Or do you have them wait? Like, do you do the talk show thing? Yeah. No, good.

No, just introduce them at the top and be, get, it's a formality. The show has been happening. Our show currently has been happening for. But this is an hour long. A great 55 minutes. It's a perfect 55 minutes. Podcasts should be podcasts.

Video show should be video shows. We should not have podcasts that are just, we put a camera in it. This is blank check. That's Griffin. That's David. This is Paul Shear and I'm Jason Manzugas. We are from, how did this get made?

But also from Dad is here. Yes. Ben. Producer Ben. Purdue or Ben, the Ben, the Benducer. Boy, I mean, I know we don't come up with one. I don't know. We don't really do this anymore. The Ballad of Benster.

Well, that's, are you sure? Scruggsley. How about inside Lew and Ben Davis? Inside Lewin Ben Davis? Well, now it sounds like it's a Ben David Griminski. Yeah, it's a problem. It is. Okay, let's get into it.

We'll get into it. This is a movie that to me, I loved because, especially in this watch because I was like, oh, this is not just a movie that is an homage to all of the Westerns and all of the great, the John Ford's, you know, all that stuff. It's an homage to all of the Looney Tunes episodes that are the homage to all of those movies. There is so much cartoon, Looney Tune stuff in here. Did you go to the Vista when they were playing, oh, what was the movie where it's the, where there's a sex pillow and George Clooney's carrying it around all the time?

I forget. It's a Ryan Gosling is who you're talking about, right? It's large in the real girl? No, no, no, no. Oh, you mean? Burn after. No, no, no. Yeah, it's a Cohen Brothers movie.

Burn after reading. He built a sex chair. Right, okay. And it's like, but they did a, I thought this is a cool one. They played it there. They played Looney Tunes before the screening. The Cohen said or just the theater? Oh, yeah, the Vista.

And I thought that was a really cool. It was a great way to kind of, kind of like, put your brains to it. There's a lot of cartoon shit in throughout. Have they ever talked about the Looney Tunes? I wonder, because it felt to me like they were doing both here. They were both, you know, leaning into some of those great, big, classic Western things, but then also how we have processed them through cartoons. Oh, I mean, well, look, the opening scene is Bugs Bunny.

Yes. I mean, absolutely. I would argue, and maybe you guys will disagree with me, that the one segment I don't particularly care for as much as the rest. I wonder if it's the same for me. It is, is the second to last one, the one that is, I completely agree. The longest.

Oh, really? I love it so much. Oh, that's so interesting. The Zoe Kazan one? Yeah. It's affecting. We'll get into it.

It's affecting. I love that. The one that for me, I find that is the least interesting is the final one. I agree with that. That is my favorite. I see.

That is my favorite one. Interesting. I really like that far. What a good episode. It's a good episode. It's a good episode. It's been great and it's only getting better. Well,

because the last one I think is like, I don't know how else this could end Without it. Right. And it's like And I feel like it's the Coens Like the other ones are like they're doing riffs on it And then that one feels like they're really infused. I don't know. It feels different in tone and style And I almost

I want them to take another movie but I almost do want it to be the last thing they ever did Which is that being like time to die. Yes, I agree. I agree with you that it does feel like an ultimate artist's statement in an interesting way. And obviously like I think this doesn't work as a movie where you watch it all the way through rather than separate, you know, install episodes without that being the end because that's what it's all building up

towards. And it also does feel like this is what our body of work has been about. What is everyone's favorite? I just, just, just say your favorite. Just say your favorite off the top of your life. Mine is the Tom Waits one. Because that, that I feel like it's Ben's favorite too. I mean, beyond. It's far and away, my favorite. Heavily features digging. Yeah. Digging. You know what? It's not just weights. It's the show. I think Ben and I both enjoy unearthing things. Yes.

In many ways. The only difference is that Ben has buried at first. Right, right, right. And then I return to the jeans. Do you know that Ben was really recently stopped by the TSA? This is a real. A real moon in Italy because he had a portable travel shovel. I was going to joke because he had a shovel.

You didn't think you could buy a shovel in Italy? I just wanted to be prepared. Why did he even need a shovel in Italy? Because he wants to bury some Italian jeans. He had some digging plans. Did you bring jeans as well or were you going to buy those there? I brought jeans and what ended up happening. I imagine you like, are you like taking them out of the suitcase and like sort of gesturing with the shovel to them?

Are you buying jeans like or are you sourcing denim? Like what do you do? No, I buy new Levi's jeans. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. And then I ordered through Italian Amazon a collapsible shovel. as well as like a ceramic container

to put the jeans in. Got it. Okay. Oh, you mean kind of like a Truskin vibes? Like you were going to go full like chimera like ceramic container? Yeah. Okay. Like for organs and so forth. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got there. The fucking container

didn't arrive in time. But now you had, the apology. Now you had it sent to your hotel. Yes. Wow. So then I was like, well, it's a perfectly good shovel. It's still in the packaging. I love it. But they had a real problem with me.

It's a weapon. And his wife, lose security. His wife texts me, P.O.V. My husband arguing with the TSA because they found a portable shovel in his bag. And it's just, it's film preferent of way that you can't hear it. And it's Ben just to kill it. You get like one of those like Karen videos you see on YouTube. And she's like investigating a shovel and calling over her some people.

She kept, they kept being like, why do you have this? And I was like, I don't know how to explain it ultimately. No, they took it. They seized it. By the way, this is, this interaction is very much at the time I was in the Orlando airport and the woman in front of me had a handgun in her purse. Okay. Wow.

And she was in Florida? In Florida, that's so weird. And her defense, she was going to Disney World. She had like a quilted purse. She did not look like a person that you would think would have a large handgun in her purse. Not a Derringer. Yeah, it was a big ass, like, automatic gun. And when she opened it, she was like, well, yeah, but I, she's like, but it's just, it's

for me, it's my care. She was so. Right, she's not, I'm not bringing anyone else a girl. Right, right. This is my gun. Yeah, the idea that it was like, I put in a Ziploc bag, like they told me to. Yeah, she's like, and it's, I'm not, I'm not, it's, I'm not going to use it for the plane.

I'm just bringing this gun for me. No, no, this is a carry-on. It's my personal. I assure you, this was not intended to be used on the plane. I sat by, I was standing behind. behind her watching it and everyone was so calm. I was like, she was like, wow, you guys were really giving me a hard time about this gun. Give me the business with this handgun.

Yeah, it was, she had no like, oh my God, I can't believe it. It's not like shoes or cigarettes or like, oh, when did they change the rules? It's like, you were never really allowed to bring guns. Every once in a while, I'll accidentally arrive at the airport with like a leatherman in my backpack. And I'm always like, oh no, I'm so sorry. I am like, throw it away. Please throw it away.

I'm, you know. the idea that somebody would accidentally bring a gun. Right. Just as absentmindedly is hilarious. And it feels like the way you're describing it, she was treating it as if, oh, I forgot to dump out my water bottle before putting it through the metal. And she was so, and she was just talking about it, like, no remorse. And also like, but it doesn't have bullets in it.

Right. Like, and it was like, you really can't just let me take the water bottle on the plane? It was, uh, it was great. So they took the shovel from you. We were able to. So, so, so dig movie is your... Paul, what is your favorite? Well, I mean, and I don't want to shirk it here, but I was going to say that I really do believe the bookends of it

are my two favorites. Okay. But I would... Buster's my favorite. Yeah, because I think that like that opening, like, I feel like it encapsulates in many respects everything I love about the Coens in those two. Buster Scruggs might be the only one where I have just the tinge of like, this is perfect

as a sketch. It's perfect. I almost just want like, give me, I want more of it like it's the only way everything else i'm like this is ideal but i think but i think that that's actually the reason why for me it works because you're probably right because i think that like the minute you go oh it could have been a second shorter like you always want to leave people wanting more especially with a comedy thing i feel like you know it's the only one though that feels like it leaves me wanting more because you're like man you could do so many fucking things with this

character you want them to come back to see exactly to see him locked in like that and he's always good, especially when he was controlling the actions of Fred Hulk, our president. Salute our president. A villainous leader. I remind you, I gave him... Do you think he has the iPad? The action figure has the iPad? They didn't make one. No, no, why not? Oh, why not? Are we talking about the

thinker? The villainous leader. The leader. I'm sorry, the leader. The thinker, of course, is Peter Capaldins. Thank you. The Suicide Squad. Megan, the Suicide Squad. But, this is a thing. I was sending David many texts about this that he loved and responded to really quickly. About the

The toy production. The multiple reshoots of Captain America. Jean-Carlo Esposito completely out of it. And you can tell because when they have their conversation, they walk into a dark cave. It's like, come in here. All right, sure. It's a Dustin Hoffman Little Falker's thing where he keeps popping up around a corner and going, I need to talk to you about something, but far away from any other principal actors.

And then you can go back to the scene you were Justin. Can I talk to a reshoot street? It is so funny when you look at those scenes like what's going on in the background where they have just come from I love it all. All of the merch of Tim Blake Nelson

as the leader is an entirely different design than what's in the movie. Really? Because they shot the entire film one time with an entirely different look for the character and then reshot every second

of his footage. Wow, we got to talk to Jesse Falcon about that. That's amazing. You should talk to Jesse Falc I'm sure, yeah. Oh, I know. You should definitely talk to him about that.

Didn't get a Marvel legend. But, like, the Funko Pop, they're, like, T-shirts. Wow. Or it's him with, like, little glasses and, like, natty combed hair. Oh, wow. And he's, like, dressed like a college professor versus his, like, zombie. Yeah. Right, right.

Instead of the, like, bumpy brain, it's a tallhead. I feel like they, I feel like. Which is the comics. The comics. It's going for the original comics. It's a bummer. It's a bummer because I feel like, you know. I just feel like Red Hulk had a great domestic agenda and he didn't get to execute.

And now he's trapped in that island, that island jail. And the hard thing. for Red Hulk is, because of the shutdown, he's not getting any of his policies. He's also not getting his pills. Oh, he's got those pills. He got to get those pills. Give me that.

By the way, I was so upset, so my son had never seen a Marvel movie. My son never had seen a Marvel movie. We went to Comic-Con this year. Yeah. I met your kids of Comic-Con. Oh, yeah, exactly, yes. And so we were, and so there was this moment where we got home there.

What is a Marvel movie? How old is your son? 11 and the other one's 9. And also, let's call out the last time you were on the show for Last Action Hero. You talked about that your sons have always been pretty disinterested in movies. Yes. And that was one of the first movies they liked. Yes.

And Last Action Hero is a big, we've now been big movie now. So it's been working really good for us. But I watched every, I did a curated selection of it because they really wanted to watch Endgame. And I was like, we can't start there. Let's go. And I created a, I created a crash course to get us to end game. then we went backwards, but they kept on going,

when can we see the Red Hulk? When can we see the Red Hulk? And this is not a bit, this is not a joke. And I was like, we were not going to see that one just yet. We're going to do like eight Green Hulks before he gets red. But they think Red Hulk is the fireworks factory. They were, like, they were ready for Red Hulk. And so I was like, guys, we can't.

And I've been watching everyone with them. And I came home. One day, I had done a show and they come home and they're like, we watch Red Hulk. And I was like, first it was the only one they watch without me. And I already seen it. And And I was like, what did you think? And it was funny because it's the first time they were disappointed at that.

Like, and it was, I remember when you're 10 or 11, you're like, it wasn't quite the five-star experience. Every film in my life has been. This is the first bad movie I've ever seen. I did detect slight cracks. Right. Is it a foundation. Are movies allowed to be bad? It's a funny moment that you have when you realize that there's a, and they come to me all the time, they go, like, can we watch it?

I go, no. Well, why not? I don't think you'll like it. And it's like, well, and it's like, well, is it to adult? I'm like, it's not too adult. It's just not good. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's hard to like explain why. Right. When they see it, they're like, all right. Right. Because you're like, yeah, I don't know. Captain America fights Red Hulk in it. Like, and you're like, well, that sounds good.

And you're like, yeah, it does sound good. You're just trying to. I think the best movie I could ever imagine. Salute. I was going to say, I, you may remember, I gave Tim Blake Nelson my best supporting actor award in our Blankies episode this year for this movie. For this. For Buster Scruggs.

And I, this segment is so my sensibility. It is, I did see this in the very brief theatrical release. Oh, cool. So I was, it was screened for me, I think. I can't remember. Some of the biggest laughs I've ever had in a theater come from this segment, which is just so, my fucking bulls on. But so you.

It's so true. It's so cartoon. It's him. It's his performance. It's the song. All the physicality of the tables. And then you've got a Clancy Brown. Yes.

And the perfect silhouette. I mean, that is the most cartoon. tune thing of all time. The tone of the movie is established when during this segment in the very beginning, as he's riding the horse and playing guitar, there's a shot from inside the guitar out. You are looking at from inside the guitar out through the strings. The sound is muffled. And I'm like, oh, this is what they're doing.

They're having fun. This is fun and silly. And I think the thing, and when I watched again, and I hadn't watched it in a long time, I was like, oh, but this character comes back. Yeah, this is like, he's also the tit. right you're right and he does seem otherworldly obviously and you're like maybe he finds a way to or do you go backwards and you see him before or do you like does every character ever an interaction with this guy because it's only that's a movie too right you know and uh but no and i think that's why

i also feel what you're saying like i want more of it like i think the movie might even feel better if there was a little bit like maybe if those characters come into that town where he gets kill. I mean, it doesn't quite work. It is the magic though where like every other segment is a complete thought that ends at the exact point it has to end to because there is so much a punchline and even the segments that are more dramatic do kind of have an inherent sketch comedy game within them. Right. It's all about building this up and knocking it down and getting to that surprising, like, but inevitable conclusion. And his is the one where you're like, you could do seven more sketches with this guy. Yes. That would all be satisfying. But also, mortal remains. Right.

has Saul Rubenek, great Saul Rubenck. Playing a Frenchman. Playing a Frenchman. And then Crumholtz is in Buster, the Ballad Buster Scruggs is a Frenchman. This is their second crummiest film, I would say. It is.

I think Kelsey's just still their claimiest. And I had that, I heard the brief, like, when I was rewatching, I was like, does Crumholtz come back? Because when I saw him, I was like, it's a similar look. And like, then I started thinking, like, what if Mortal Remains like,

it's like there was a character in each of them and they were all in the carriage? That's fun. And then I watched it. I was like, right, but that's not what it is at all. Wouldn't that be cool? Wouldn't that be cool? But the Cohen's also, I think, when you say to them, wouldn't that be cool?

They're like, oh, I don't know, maybe. We did something else. And I think that the movies that we have watched that are similar. And I'm going to, this is a very big thing I'm painting here, but like a Kentucky fried movie or like Amazon Women on the Moon, which I was able to buy in the UK. Yeah. Blu-ray or DVD? Blu-ray.

Wow. And, but like, they, that, the format of these styles, the style of film where it's shorts. there always is a little bit of a through line. A little bit. Right. What's making this all hanging together. And this is just the milieu. The West.

The West. Frontier. The, you know, like the themes of going West and a new started or whatever, you know. And even though it's the, but the book is, is the book the ballot of, but the book, it's based on two different stories. Well, I know you're saying the physical book in the book. Yeah. Two of the six stories are adaptations. Yes.

Four of them are original. Yeah. You know what? I should open the dossier because I actually think there are lots of questions. Crack it. I don't know the total. David, I'm begging you to get to the David. David. It's an hour and 12 minutes.

You know, I have to that dossier. Jay J.J. worked on it. The Coins, of course, had made short films before a little bit. Joel made a short film called Soundings in NYU Film School. Obviously, they did the Tweedery section of Parishetame, which is very charming and funny. The Busemi segment teach his own cinema.

And then they did the world cinema segment, and then to eat his own cinema with Brolin, right? Yeah. Tom, I like the Nuri Bilga Silen. That's his bit at the end of the movie. Oh, yeah, right, right, right. It's Cowboy wanders into an art house theater, and he really likes climates.

The Nuri Bilga Silen movie. And he, like, tips his cowboy hat and goes, tell him I like it. It's really great. Yeah, it's really funny. Tricia Cook, co-directed a short called Don't Mess with Texas, where Ethan was someone to... Anyway, but in the early 2000s,

the Cohen start writing something called The Ballad of Buster Scrugs, but they don't intend it, and intend it may be right away to be a short, but they realized, like, oh, this is like an interesting lark. Maybe it could begin to be a collection. They also, they tell Tim Blake, like, we're writing this for you.

This is this fun idea we're toying around with. You put a movie cowboy in a kind of more real, dangerous Western milieu. Is there anybody who, and I mean, I think he has said this outright, is there anybody who has had their career just astronomically catapulted forward than the Coens and Tim Blake Nelson.

It is so interesting that they look at him and they're like, we know what to do with you and that's all he needed. It's all of it. It's from O'Brother to this guy. Like, it's so varied. I mean, here are the things that are craziest. One, that they actually don't work together

at all between O'Brother and this. Right. And in your mind, you're like, he became a staple. Yeah, in your mind you're like he's Stephen Root. He's in six of these things. Right. But the thing about him, too, is I think he also was exploding in a lot of movies that are odd

that for the most, for the eye test for most people are like, oh, that was a Cohen Brothers, but it feels like he's in those. Or he gave a performance in a movie that felt like it could have been a Cohen's performance in a more straight film or whatever it is. Yeah, like he's doing a lot of that weird, not weird work, but just a lot of that, you just associate him with that. But also to be a guy who,

I'm sorry, David, went to Juilliard, is classically trained. We've talked about Tim, I guess just NeoBrother. But then like, you know was like doing character actor stuff doing comedy stuff and was sort of like I think I'm more of a writer and director that's my main focus I become friends with Joel Cohen through that

then he offers me this part I'm like I don't really act that much anymore this is the third lead of the movie should I do this he does it he never stops working right it's not even he has had peaks and valleys no he's got a face on everyone is like we know to cast this guy

forever he will be in six things a year so back to the Dusty because well we can talk But, you know, that's like... So they've done short films. Well, they've done short films. They write Buster Scruggs. They start to just write other stuff.

It all goes in a drawer. At one point, HBO, who's the only other possible contender for, I think, making something like this is like, we do an anthology. Like, that makes some sense. They sort of talk about it. It never goes anywhere. And Ethan says, basically at some point, they were like, we just need to write, like, one more and it'll be a feature, right?

Like, they had maybe four or five. They were like, let's just do it. When you say Buster Scruggs, were they writing Buster... First, they do Buster Scruggs, the first chapter. But always as a story, not as like, we're going to write a Buster Scruggs feature. Exactly. I think they realize, like, no, it's a little trifle, and they just keep adding trifles to their drawer. But they tell him about it in, like, the early 2000s.

And then they're like, we don't really know what to do with this. We have this thing we wrote for you. We don't really know where this would fit into it. They love Westerns. Yeah. And so they're kind of, as they put it rummaging around in the Western genre, where they're like, well, we never did a stagecoach movie. We never did a wagon train movie.

Like, these are all, right? Buster Scruggs is like, it's about, you know, dueling, right? Like, the gold miner thing, the stagecoach thing, it all makes sense. It's like these are things Westerns would, would subgenres of golden age. They have ostensibly done two feature length westerns at this point, yet both of them are unconventional in their own ways, that there are a lot of hallmarks they have not hit at all.

They write the mortal remains, the final piece, as a way of unifying when they look at all their stories. they're like, what is the common theme? And they are like, the common theme of this is death. Death comes for us all. Exactly. Like, and it's like, it may be out of the ordinary or it might just kind of be like, what can you do?

Like you're going to, you know, but like that is right. That is the common theme. So they write that. You could also zoom out and argue that is the common theme of their body of war. Well, I mean, that's the common theme of much art. Well, that's what I was going to say that the first and last chapter to me represent the full scope of their career, which is like death, but act. Cartoon silliness.

Yes. And then, like, poetic sort of seriousness. Yes, and sort of, like, the brutality and beauty, and it's really well, I mean, I think this movie does capture a lot of what they do in very short segments, you know, like, I think you're right. I think the primary concern of, like, their careers and their body of work is this is the only guarantee and what do you do with that knowledge, right? Yes.

That most of their stories are animated by how do people process the fact that that is the inevitable end goal? how do people what are they willing to do in order to protect their lives the cruelty of taking away other people's lives like all of this the negotiation

I really wish I also feel like there's no like their movies are more not more modern but I feel like they there's less lying here people like people are much more bald here I feel like in this film yeah and I feel like

they kind of man you're obsessed with bald in movies I mean I think it's great and you're talking about Greek actors talking about bald actors Sally Sevalis But I do think of it. Oh, I love it. Greek is hell. Greek is hell.

We left him off the list. Well, he is dead. That's not the thing. I'm just saying. I mean, he can't ship off to the odd. I believe he was Jennifer Aniston's godfather. He was. Is that right?

Is that right? Is that right? Because John Aniston is the dad. Oh, I do have his vinyl. His vinyl is great. His singing vinyl is. Oh, wow. I can imagine that guy had some pipes.

He does a little William Shatner-esque. But I feel like what's fun about this is like, these people are who they say they are and what they, like, no one's like hiding that much. And I feel like a lot of Coen Brothers movies is about manipulation or covering. But I also think that's like a principle of the dramatic idea of the Western, right? It is why it is a genre that people are still so obsessed with is it's this notion of like white hats and black hats and men meeting in a town square and looking each other in the eye and saying the thing and these moral lines, you know, this sort of like this midpoint culturally between. between, like, we built just enough of a society that we're starting to establish rules and structures and idea of how a town works and what jobs are, you know, and dressing it up.

And yet, things are settled by guys shooting each other in the head. Right. You know, that it's this, like, the exact midpoint in, like, the human evolution. Right. So Westerns are about. It's like, to what extent has civilization arrived? And then what civilization, sort of. And what they take, they, and then where it manipulates to is people like, oh, I can circumvent

the civilization. I can manipulate it. I can gain, get money from it. What I feel like as part of it is, and Zoe Kazan has that line, when her brother has died and they say, do you want to go back or do you want to move forward? And she said, there is no back. There is only moving forward. And that's everybody

in this movie, everybody in life, is marching forward towards certain death. It's just happening so much sooner in this movie because circumstances are brutal. And these things have to be 15 minutes long? They basically, all of them average between 15 and 20 other than the Kazan, which is about 35.

Right. The rattled is the sort of center piece of notes later. And that's why I feel like that, why I don't like it as much as the others is because I think it does break the structure too late in the film because it's right at the, it's like. That is the exact thing I like about it. I think I can see Griffin's side of it. I agree with you, Paul, that I, right, am kind of like, this is like a few too many beats and I've been. with this movie for a while and you know, I don't know. I don't know.

I want to know why you guys like an event. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, they take this project once they're sort of like, okay, like we put this all together to Anna Perna, as we said. Anapurna sells it to Netflix pretty quickly, according to the Cones. And it is a mistake of trade reporting that it's reported as a series. And I think it's partly that it was still so new.

Yes. For like these movies to be on Netflix and it's announced as this anthology of stories that I think, variety at all are just kind of like, oh, is it like a television miniseries? Like, is that so hot right now? No filmmaker would be going with a film to Netflix at this point. You know, like,

right, or... Well, also part of them. I mean, kind of out. We've got House of Cards. We've got Fincher. A couple things. But no, but no filmmaker would come with like a film. Like, uh... I see what you say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It felt like Netflix was doing something similar to Anapurna, which was, what's the thing you

can't get made anywhere else? And when Netflix made them a lot of times, you were like, oh, there's a reason no one else made this. The script had problems. Things like Duncan Jones's mute, right? Where you were like, oh, these development hell movies are now going to Netflix as a salvation versus the ones that were good, but were challenging. It felt like Anna Perna was financing and then getting theatrical distribution for it.

Right, Anna Perna was more doing the Scott Rudin thing of like, what's the thing you've been trying to make? We can figure out how to make it for you. If cinema for adults has kind of died, then we'll put up the money for it. But it's kind of also like movies that can't have good trailers, right? You can't say. Right. Movies that would struggle with an opening weekend expectation or whatever.

Right. So here you just slap it in Netflix. You open up your app and then you're like, it's there. I'm watching it. But they're absolutely kind of riding high for going to Netflix at this point. A lot of the people who are going to Netflix are like coming off of a shaky period. I guess Irishman's the year after this, which is another big turning point of like, oh, fuck, here's this movie that the studios were too scared to make. Right.

And they're rolling out the carpet first course. And the Scorsese, the thing about Irishman in Flower Moon is, like, they are very long and very expensive. And they were expensive to make. They probably still would have made decent amounts of money. But they're long and expensive. I don't think, I would have loved to have seen the Coens do Flower Moon. That story is a Cohen. Like, that to me is like, and it drives me, I love Scorsese, obviously, but that, I would love to have seen the humor in that more because that's a movie where you're talking about a lot of this kind of.

Just manipulation fun. No, for sure. There's a way to make it more. This is a quote from Joel. I like this about television. The thing about TV series I don't understand. I think it's hard for both of us to get our minds around is feature films have a beginning and middle and an end.

Open-ended stories have a beginning and middle. And then they're beaten to death until they're exhausted and they die. I do think that's a funny way to talk about really successful television. Because only a couple shows truly got to end their own terms. Usually if you're successful, it's like, yay, our show rocks. You're a victim of your own success. We're still going and it's like, now, like, you're done. Except for the UK model, which was, you know, was like, yeah.

But you're, right. Most often shows end. Pastmester will never end. Most often shows end unresolved because they didn't get where they wanted to and they were taken away too soon or they're victims of their own success that are stretched out far past the natural ending point of the story. The Coens also say they are literal about this. They're like, no studio would have financed this film.

Like, with the one, like, where it's like, hey, why did you go to streaming? and they're like, why do you think? Nobody's going to make this movie. This is not a commercial movie. And it's an expensive movie. And we see how the industry is changing and they only want to make franchise movies. And like, you know, they're expensive because it's period.

Yeah, I think this movie was like a huge pain in the ass to make because this is the one where Ethan's like, I am really exhausted. It is the reason. Yes. The split up in quotes between the two of them is at the end of this, Ethan's like, I'm so fucking wiped out. I don't want to make another movie. And Joel goes, I guess if you don't want to do it, can I do stuff solo?

Oh, okay. And then Ethan ends up getting this second win and deciding that he wants to make very, very serious, complicated lesbian genre. Society. But he, when it was sort of talked about and people were like, are they talking around a blowup that happened between the two of them? Was there a falling out? Is there an illness? Is it an industry thing? Whatever it was. The line was always Ethan saying, we made too many Westerns in a row that that, that. No country was tough, some films in between. Trigger was really tough, some films. And then this, he basically was like, it was an idiotic, ambition on a part. It felt like making six complete movies. Even though they were short, it felt like six separate productions in a row.

The scope of them is massive. Right. They're not, they don't feel small. Not at all. I mean, maybe in past, but that's about it. But they're almost all exteriors. Right. He was like, it was just months on uncovered sets.

Every couple of weeks, it would basically reset with a new cast. We'd have to rethink visually the new story. So many of these people are old. Like Tom Waits. I was watching Tom Wait. Did he look old to you? Do so much in this. I was like, wow.

He must have been exhausted. No, and I think Ethan even said, like, that much time outdoors uncovered sets, it wouldn't have been a problem when we were young. Yeah. But we got ourselves out there. and even just being like five years older than they were when they made True Grit or more, seven, you know,

and that's already a couple years past. They were like, the additional 10 years between when we started making Westerns and this one, we were just like, I can't handle them. Yeah. David, yes. I'm unlike most people. Of course.

You know why? One of one. Do you know why? There are many reasons, but here's one. What's that? Murray. What? Murray.

That's what I named one of my financial accounts. And see, most people can't name all of their financial accounts, but I've named all of them. One of them's named Murray. One of them is named Tiffany. One of them is named Rebecca. So you guys, sometimes Griff will look at the ad copy and he will just sort of UCB style kind of be like, what can I make with these words? This is a damning accusation. Sometimes Griffin will look at the ad copy.

Yeah, yeah. Listen, most people can. name all of their financial accounts or what they're worth. I, like, right. If you ask me, like, hey, can you just get everything like financial that you have in front of you? I would be like, absolutely not. I have no way of organizing this. And some of us kind of think A to C and they look at a 401k and they say that looks like a Murray to me. So, you can feel organized and confident in your finances with Monarch, an all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together and one clean interface on your laptop or your phone, Griffin. Because the lack of awareness can lead to money being left on the table.

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Think of Murray. Don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use code check at monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code check. Do it for Murray. David, this episode is brought to you by Mooby. The Global Film Company, the Champions Great Cinema, from iconic directors to emerging otters,

there is always something new to discover. And with Mooby, each and every film is hand-selected so you can explore the best of cinema, streaming anytime, anywhere. But also, David. No, that's it. That done, good recommendation of Moobie. No.

What? also projected upon the silver screen. Yes, movie releases films, too. And physical movie theater. And they've got a humdinger called Die, My Love. It's the new picture from Lynn Ramsey. Someone I have long maintained is one of our finest living film makers. That is true.

A genius, in my opinion. It is coming to U.S. theaters on November 7th. It is a visceral and uncompromising portrait of a woman engulfed by love and madness. Who's playing that woman, David? Jennifer Lawrence. Have you heard of her? This film is excellent. You've seen it? I am dying to see it. Dying my love to see it. Yes, it stars with Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson, two of our very exciting stars.

Mystique and Batman themselves. They are playing a couple who moves out to the woods to Montana to raise their kid after they have a kid and be normal. Everything goes regular for them in their brains when they're. they do this. This is her first film since you were never really here, one of my favorite movies of the last decade. Yes, it was a can. It's very, very intense,

very incredible performance from Jennifer Lawrence, especially, in my opinion. Awesome soundtrack that I think Ben's going to dig. I think Lynn Ramsey makes movies differently than anyone else on the planet. I feel like she is uniquely skilled at a kind of method she is created for depicting the inner life

through sound and image. Her movies, thrill me. And I will say if you're a listener of this podcast, it might be beneficial to go see Die My Love sooner rather than later. Winky Winky. Die My Love is now in theaters. Go see it. You can visit Mooby.com

slash Die My Love for showtimes and tickets. And to stream great films at home, you can try Mooby free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash blank check. That's Mubi.com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema

for free. Tim Blake Nelson has you say had been shown this script all the way and he was excited about it

and then once in a while Joe will be like hey by the way one day we're going to do that so get ready and then they're like we're going to do it so can you do pistol tricks

and can you play guitar and can you sing and also can you learn all this dialogue and Tim was like starting now. Tim was like, what? And then he had to, like, learn guitar specifically to be in this movie.

His son is, like, a very good musician. Oh, wow. He has a beautiful singing voice, and he learned, like, singing was part of his training at Juliard. But he credits his son. He has a really good WTF episode. Oh, okay. Where he credits his son, where he was just, like, this incredible bonding exercise of me

being able to go to my son, who was a guitar prodigy, and be like, I'm hiring you to spend the next six months to teach me how to do all of this. And they got very close to him. Can I give you Zoe Kazan's incredible take on this movie? And she obviously, I mean, like with all these actors, it's like, hey, why'd you do it? She's like, I don't know, it's a Coen Brothers movie. Like, what am I going to not do it? She says, she thinks the whole thing is all bound together in a really clever way.

Each chapter prepares you for the next. The first one is like, it's going to be a good time. People will die, but it's going to be fun. By the third one, that expectation has been reversed. It's like amusement comes with a price. You know, entertainment is not easy. And like, you've watched the deaths of all these. these protagonists, right?

Tom Waits, reverses the pattern a little bare a bit, there's hope, and then Gal Who gets rattled is the opposite, where you're in it, you're invested the most, it has the most crushing ending, and then the final one is just this dream logic of like, you know, this Museum of Death, basically, yeah, we'll get into it more, but that's my I love that quote. That's a guy, she's fucking smart.

Everyone who has worked with her says that as well. Yeah, and I think that... She and I work together on the Nia Vardalos movie. I hate Valentine's. Jason, you're in that? Oh, don't you worry, I am. Oh, do you go on a date with her? I was so worried.

I'm freaking out. Do you go on a date with her? And she's like, I hate that. No, no. Nia Vardalos is falling in love with John Corbett once again. One of their four movies together. Yes. She has a kind of regular lunch group of friends who she kind of downloads with.

And it's me, Zoe, Dratch, and Judah Friedlander. Guys, you're all the same age. Yes. Crazy. The Wrecking crew. The Racking Crew. A.K.A.A. The Racking Crew. That movie is not perfect. It is allowed.

David. Wait a second. It is very gracious of you, David. It is not perfect. But I had the most wonderful time making it. It sounds like a good crew. It sounds like a good crew. And it was maybe one of the very first movies I was ever in a meaningful way, like multiple scenes.

That's a long time ago. You know? Oh, yeah. I will also. I also say that when you just said something about, not about Valentine's Day, but the, the, the dossier coming up and saying, like, that she read all the pieces, which, again, these are two things that surprised me. A, that Netflix didn't approach them, and then B, that they're giving the full script out to everyone because it feels to me, it's like, oh, here's the piece we want you to do. Don't worry about the rest. It's not important. The weird misreporting about this film and the assumption that it was a TV show was also that, like, in some of the trade announcements, they said that it was a project under Anna Perna's new television division. And also because Netflix is doing so much playing with format stuff, I have heard conspiracy theories in the past that there was a little bit of deliberate trickery in knowing that Netflix would be more willing to sign off on this, even though their intention was always to make it a movie, that is pure conjecture. But they have been very upfront.

Everyone who works on this movie is very upfront that it was like, the script is a finished thing. It is in this order and everyone reads it from beginning to end. And this is, you know, when I talked to Quentin Tarantino, he talked publicly on the radio, so I'm not, I'm not a, not radio, but in the podcast, he was saying that they kind of tricked Harvey into Kill Bill, you know, to kind of maneuver how they wanted it to be released, too. So I think that that's just part of good producing. It's good that someone was able to trick Harvey after Harvey tricked so many people. Yeah, 100%.

What's up with him? You're saying mostly, haven't heard from him in a minute. You're saying mostly just the editing room, right? His notorious editing room battle. But I do feel like that. I think that that's all fair play because it's sort of like, just get it made. Go get the thing. Because it doesn't make a difference for Netflix.

Ultimately, I don't think. No. And they've been very clear that it was like, this is always what we wanted to be. And that's what it was. Right. And whether it was just misreporting because they tend to keep the lid on very tight while they're working on stuff. So there's a lot of speculation that leads to like fact, theorize and getting printed as fact

or if that was part of their kind of clever. Well, you blew my mind when you just said that he wasn't sick for the breakup. I thought whatever I read was that he was sick and then that was the number. He's like, I'm really fucking tired and I like need time to recharge and maybe I'll come back to it. I get it. Yeah. It was a pain to make. They shot it in Nebraska, Colorado, New Mexico, almost all on location except for the final segment, which was shot on a stage. Obviously,

mostly in its carriage. Well, that also that the first sequence is in the very famous I've shot there multiple times, the famous Old West town that's standing in right outside of Los Angeles and that you would see Deadwood and, yeah, everything in. Is it in that segment where they refer to Valverdei in this movie, which is like... Do they really?

Yeah, which is the famous kind of shared fake... South American country that like... It's in a Commando. What's the guy, the writer, who wrote all those movies? Stephen D'Souza. Thank you. It's a D'Souza. It's a D'Sa ref.

It is. Yeah. But Valvone is invoked at some point in this film. There is this like owning of the kind of like collective monomith of the American West via movies, right? Well, also not for nothing. The fact that in that opening segment, Tim Blake Nelson is killed by Seth Bullock, Tim Oliphant, you know, putting a deadwood actor in there, putting like, there's something really wonderful about that. I also thought that that opening sequence is movie Old West.

He's in the white cowboy outfit. It's like it's very, everything else is much more grounded in a more realistic way. Oh, yeah. The juxtaposition of him and Clancy Brown is incredible. It's also like he's like a 40s movie cowboy and he is killed by like a 60s movie cowboy. Both of them are fictionalized, heightened stylized version of phony cowboys existing in a milieu of like these are what the actual guys were like. This is basically the Cohen's playing with toys. Yeah. You know, this first one, absolutely. I mean, you're kind of identifying why I love this. Right. Yeah. But like the joke of like,

okay, or the puzzle of like, you're in the saloon, you're not allowed a weapon. How do you, how do you kill somebody? Like, it's fun. But it's Seth Bullock, but also Roy Rogers. Um, but it's also right, what Griffin is saying of kind of like, now your time is cum buster. Like, you're gonna, you're going to get knocked off the board because like the Western isn't gone but the type of the trick shots the cheerful singing and all that it's like actually uncold and it's and it happens before but i loved the sequence where he kills surly joe he's singing the surly joe song and dancing and everyone's getting on board for it but they keep cutting back to surly joe's brother coming in and finding it's kind of Robinson sketches a

What the fuck? He did this! He's dead! That sequence is so funny! Every single line of dialogue he has is funny to me. It's funny in the way as written. You can just imagine the Cohen's giggling to themselves about, like, imagine Tim saying this.

There are moments of, like, pure, like, elation that I have in this segment. I mean, his killing of Clancy Brown is truly, I know I've been using a lot of hyperbole across the series because I love the Cohen so much. That is amongst the hardest I've ever laughed in a theater. It's so good. Yes.

I lost my fucking mind. It's so funny. I saw this at the IFC with our friend J.D. Amato in like one of the five basically unadvertised days it was playing. And there was almost no one else in the theater outside of a recently canceled Louis C.K. Oh, wow. It was like a very odd experience. When we walk him, we're like, that's him, right?

And then we're just-lasting at anything? He laughed a lot. Oh, yeah. He liked it a lot. Because it would be funny. You're talking about the author, right? The novelist. Yeah, yeah.

It would be funny if he kicked the board and made him shoot himself once. But then he does it then six times. That's one time is funny. Six times is the funniest thing I've ever seen. I feel like the image I see when I look at him in this is Bugs Bunny with the guns on his holster. That is like I feel this image. It's like everything. If you told me this was literally shot for shot of Warner Brothers Looney Tunes Cartoon a big.

A hundred percent. And I even think the dust silhouette and all these things of like establishing cartoon logic, the way at the end when he dies, he becomes an angel with little wings and a harp. Yeah. That's a straight loony tunes. Oscar-in-on-ed-it song. He sings an Oscar-in-on-on-on-old song. When a cowboy trades his spurs for wings.

Well, he performs it in the movie. I can't remember. I think Gillian Welch did it on stage. It's mostly the other guys singing it. I believe Gillian Wals did it. Oh, David Rawlings? David Rawlings. Hey, there we go.

Do you guys know those albums? Don't worry about it. I was going to say, it's like, Jason does not have like a laptop open it. A short side tangent, that will be worth it. least. I promise you. I'm fine. We're already introduced the show. Now we're in. Yeah.

The show has started. We're doing great. We're actually ahead of skis. It's so funny. David has genuinely calmed down. Yeah. The tension was just for the words that begin the show. A little bit.

We're doing great, David. We only have five more segments to talk about. So here's my side to. David, as a parent, I feel that pressure. I feel it. I've recorded episodes where I've come down and my wife is like, what, what possibly could you be doing? Like the idea of coming down and being like,

oh, but we had 18 more minutes on fucking Predator squad. And we're not resolved on the-Gryph and I are like, let's go, child. Child, Raps, Calian, bachelors. We have nothing to do. I'm in New York. I don't have my family. I'm very happily,

can say as long as I like that. Yeah. We do have a show tonight. Oh, well, that's, yeah, that was. I'm covering the show. Oh, really? Oh, my gosh. Well, look. Yeah. We'll talk about it. In Manhattan, right?

Yeah. Yeah, right. And the great New York City. The Great Town Hall. Yes. George Lucas Talk Show. Yes. When we were doing so much of it during the pandemic over live streams,

Connor, as he has wanted to do, got very into the idea of producing an original soundtrack album on vinyl. I remember. Because there'd been enough songs that we, like, improvised or musical performances. Yes. So there were like a couple original songs, but there were times where we ended up doing improvised, like, covers of other songs. And Connor, as is his want, was like, I'm going to produce like, you know, 300 of these or whatever, but I want to legally clear every single second of it.

And he spent like a year going through and clearing every kind of musical thing and any artist we had had on the show who had representation from someone else making sure, like, no one's going to make money off this, but I want this to all be above board, right? And one of the things was we had someone perform one of the songs from the Star Wars holiday special. And there's so much mystery around the Star Wars holiday special because everyone ran for the hills and tried to, you know, eschew credit for that. And he was like, we got to figure out who wrote this song. I think it was the B. Arthur song. And Connor did months of digging and found out that it was written by two kind of like go-to 50s, 60s variety show comedy legends who did most of the original songs for the Carol Burnett show. Oh, cool. who died decades ago and that Disney has never bothered to copyright the holiday special songs

because Lucas disowned it, Fox never did it, Lucasfilm never did it, Disney didn't do it now, it's like just out there. No one has the rights. And he was like, who is the next of kin for this, these old Borshbelty comedy writers? And it was Gillian Welch. Her parents wrote the songs for the Star Wars Holiday Special. And Connor got connected with her and he was like, weirdest phone calls. you're ever going to receive in your life, you actually own five Star Wars songs. Wow.

And the best ones. Did she have any knowledge of that? No. So like she made a deal with him for nothing, right? But she was like, thanks for letting me know I like have IP over Disney. That is wild. And I feel like that, well, I mean, that special is amazing. I got to do a documentary about it where I got to read the outline that was given and it is one of the best pieces of like it it's it's great i mean everything about that and how weird it was i feel like i feel like it needs to be released like in a and it's remastered i think george and harrison may have to depart this mortal coil for like it to actually be like well did you hear though that i that they're remastering the original yeah yeah i mean i mean i live in hope the story had always been i live in a new hope exactly

The stories have always been that contractually, when George sold Lucasfilm to Disney, one of his baked in conditions was, you cannot release the original theatricals. That even upon leaving, he was like, you can't do it without me. So something has changed. Something has changed. Either they convinced him or he, you know, it expired or something. And do you know that, like, right now, as we record in the Disney parks, they have Chewbacca, the walk around Chewbacca with the Red Robe and the Life Day orb.

Oh, wow. Like, they will not let the holiday special out legally, but there's, like, merchandise something. But there's references to it. Well, but because now what they've done is Lego did a, I worked with Disney and a very high-up executive at Lucasfilm. I had done a special for Marvel where I did a documentary about this failed comic book called Brute Force. And we went back and we got to do some stuff. And Kevin Feige allowed us a little bit of leeway until there was none.

And then, but then they were like, Can you do this for the special? So we can maybe re-air the special. But that died a much quicker death. Yeah. Someone catches wind and is like, no, right, squish. Yeah. I, no, I just, I love everything about the segment.

The moment for me that is like I enter a state of nirvana is when in the sort of standoff, he turns to the camera. It is not the first time he has spoken to the camera. mirror or he's like, and I'm up and I'm backwards and I'm looking at him. It's before that it's the moment that introduces that. Because at the beginning, of course, he's on the horse, he's singing, he's talking to the camera, he's acknowledging it,

right? But then he's sort of been in his world entering these tough bars, everyone's laughing at him, being like, what the fuck is up with this guy? And then he reasserts his dominance, right? And this whole, like, Cohen thing of this tension between this guy who seems like an idiot goofball also being capable of

like intense horrific violence. Right? The sort of like subtext under the movie-fied, cleaned-up version of an American myth. And he stayed in that reality for like 10 continuous minutes, I feel like. And then he's in the shoot-off. He's done the five fingers, right? He, like, in this fucking shoot-out decides to shoot all five of the guys' fingers off so that he can't fire the gun. And he's, like, trying to figure out if he can do it with his left dominant hand, right?

and Tim Blake Nelson turns back to the camera that's behind him and goes, I ain't got but the one bullet left. And it's with this like Bugs Bunny, ain't I a stinker? Like he's thrilled at the challenge. Well, what's so fun about this whole segment is it starts off so big in scale and scope. And it just gets closer and closer and closer in so that at a certain point, especially once he's talking to, us. It is conspiratorial. Tim Blake Nelson is including us in his mischief and us. He's letting us in on what's going on in a way that I was like, oh, I love it. And that he, that there are no more

narrators, that there are no more talking to us. That goes away once he dies. And what's happening here goes beyond self-defense, right? What you need to do to survive in the West because even like the Clancy Brown thing is like the rules of poker, you know, that's a dead man's hand. You have to respect that if he doesn't like when he goes i would appreciate it if you would go and turn your firearm into the the closet over there whatever you know the gun the gun check um it was so funny he's just so unfazed by everything but at this point it's like okay there's a shoot out he there is self-defense he needs to shoot first he's actually just torturing this man well but to not to shoot him in the head but to shoot his fingers off one by one it's not just a white hat 40s thing it's violent it's

cruel. There's a weird dissonance to that that I love. And then as you say at that moment, after he shot all five fingers off, turns to the audience and is like, we're having fun here, right? But we're having fun here, right? And, but this is also, we talked about Looney Tunes, but that's also Three Stooges, which I think is very much

them too. Like, three Stooges is violent. It's quite brutal. Right, and if you were to look at it, it's like, you can see it one way and you can see it another way. And I think that, like, to your point, Jason, when they, when he's like, my brother, like that, it's like, oh, that's this weird line that the whole movie walks where it's like it is real but we also have him going

up with a little angel wings and a harp and it's like and that to me that that's what I love about this just the I mean it's I would say it's probably the best piece of the entire film because I think it is the most

the most co I'm most thought out the most beautifully done this beautiful moment of like I got the one bullet turns around fucking vanity mirror silver play right figuring out the angles of where to shoot then he calls out like it's risky i shouldn't get too fancy with it as if he isn't already doing this trick shot then murders this man in cold blood and then gets challenged to a new duel by this like new hollywood western cowboy right and this guy

is obeying the same rules the reason why he's able to shoot buster scrugs down is because he doesn't do the fucking preamble right he's not talking to the camera he's not playing the he's not playing to the thing because he like buster scrubs is actually playing to the audience right because he's like he's like yeah yeah we could do the count like he it's almost like someone's calling him off stage the moment where he uses the same mirror to look at the bullet hole in his own head yes is wonderful and the reveal of the framing of that yeah and even when this cowboy's walking away and singing this oscar nominated song he's not doing it down the barrel of the lens he's singing but it's like we shift to like a cap you baloo we have to move on there

We do have to move off. We have five more segments to do. Segment two. You're Algodonius. Anyone help me? No, okay. Now, this is the simplest one joke, like premise, right? Right?

It's sort of all building to punchline. I do really like it. It does, it feel, this is the most, like it feels like a cute little short story. This is the slightest. Wait, which one does it tell me? This is the Potson Pants. Oh, yes. Stephen Root.

I think Franco is. Galactus. incredibly well cast in this. Galactus is in it. He's there. He's there. He's there of my cosmic burden. I hunger. I don't, I mean, I don't know what you guys. But Kang is there too, right? A couple of kings. There are a couple kings. They're all kings. I mean, this is the cool thing about this. Everybody in this is a king. Yes. I loved when the time variance authority showed up. I love Mr. Timely. When he's, when's he coming back? So many things in whatever phase four, five, whatever that was, five, six, where they were like, this. This

makes sense. There's a lot to draft off here where I'm like, you guys have nothing. Nothing. Sorry. Nothing. In my memory, this was like the first major post like Me Too Times Up Franco thing, which gives it an interesting air because you're like, here

he is not charming at all. Being an outlaw. Right. He's really, he's well cast. He's really good. It's all about like this guy just barely escaping culpability for his actions. Kind of the last thing he's done. It mostly disappears after this.

Right, that anyone really watched. I was wondering if this was shot four. I think it was shot before, but came out quite a bit after because of their post-production. It's similar to the deuce where it's like the deuce wrapped up in 2019 or whatever, which is the other sort of last thing he did of note. But this is his last major credit for a good chunk of time. He's such a good comparison to Root in total, like, Gonzo mode. Oh, my God.

Stephen Root in, like, silliest bugman mode. Yeah. And, like, I mean, the gag, the thing, all right, so the thing about this one is, apart from the gag of first time, which is hilarious, right? Which, like, hit for me so hard and I laughed when I saw it, is that in this one, we're really, for the first time seeing, like, Native Americans, this Comanche's as, like, classic Hollywood villains, where they are just, like, violent and scary and have no character. Right. The movie does this twice, because they're just like a martyr as well, right? And I think it put people off because it's like, you don't see this in revision. Westerns basically ever like this kind of like classic cartoony cowboys and Indian kind of villain thing and I feel like they're they would the Coens would just be like yeah well this is the milieu we're

playing riffing on the history of these types of stories but it is quite shocking I love the moment in it when the when they're attacking and and and Franco's got the noose around and there's one of the guys who's trying to hang him first gets an arrow in the throat yes pulls it out It's only to get a second arrow in the throat. I was like, these are the jokes. This is so good. But then it's such a funny sequence. And then the Indians leave and everybody else is dead.

And it's just Franco on his horse, the tension between the horse's appetite for forcing it further and further tightening the noose tighter and tighter. That tension is great. I love it. It's such a great moment because you have this great action scene. and it is this, like, it gives it so much more weight because any moment he could also be, his neck could be snapped and it's done. And it's like, it's so great.

But then that right next to, like, moments before, Stephen Root coming out in pots and pan. The silliest get up. Right, right. And it's amazing. The most comical villain. He's also put, he's stripped down. With a catchphrase.

Yeah. Pan shot. Pan shot. Like, you know, like. And the glee with which he's screaming Panshot is so funny. Well, what's skillful about this, too, is it's all wind up to one punchline, right? It is the, like, tremendous Cohen's comic irony of a guy being able to be hung for the second time, right? To be the kind of like old sage, I've been through this before.

Well, he's died. Right. He's kind of a ghost. And so he's like, when he's not scared to die the second time. See, I think it's the opposite thing. My read is this guy thinks that he can't be killed. Oh, that's a fair read. I think it's like, it'll work out.

I think his first time energy. I think the smile, yes. I think this, I've been here before. Right. It will work out. Something will work out. Right. I do think, though, it is a one joke thing, but I also think the first joke is one of the funniest.

A bank in the middle of nowhere. Like, it is, there's no town. There's no anything. And it's like, that image is great. You're right. You're right. You don't even think about it. the absurdity of this thing. That is such a funny

fucking thing. And then it just goes and heighten sight and tight. Someone making it all the way out there and being like, what this place needs is a bank? Going back to this awkward notion of like these developing proper society of America, right? Like this is how things should be

and yet it isn't quite right yet. Yes. No, it's so wrong. And I think that that's like and that's what I love about like everyone is making these mistakes, but then also, you know, it's like not doubling down. But it's like, I love how fierce he is to protect himself. Like, of course.

Right. He goes into battle mode. Yes. Like, he's an idiot maybe to build that bank there, but he's not an idiot to protect the money in the bank. Oh, and the setup of the shotguns, the scatter guns underneath each teller's window. He's home alone his whole fucking. Exactly.

That's exactly right. There are other tellers there. That's the other thing I was thinking about. Is he the only one? Like, I mean, but it is built up like, this is a thoroughfare. Like, people are coming in and now. Right. It makes you ask a bunch of questions about who this guy is in a good Cohen way where you're like any one scene character you wish you could learn about their entire life. And a lot of that's in casting, but also the details of like, what made him pick this place? Has he ever had other employees? Well, like, I guess I was wondering in this whole thing, how much the Cohen's talk to their actors about what they want because that's also a very big.

You always hear like not that much. See, that's, and that's like Clint Eastwood, we were, I talked to one. person who was in unforgiven and he was like he's like i went to clinton i was like morgan freeman and he was like he was like i want to do this i want to do that and he goes no no no no you're the actor right right you do that don't you tell me about it yeah and i was like so interesting and i wondered if they were like this because it's a great choice he plays it i mean they're playing very different energies and and you can play that have that degree of freedom on a clean eastwood movie to have that degree of freedom and know that you're only going to get one take? Because he's famous for only doing one, maybe two takes. That's crazy. Yeah. I feel, where are you going to say? I just had an intimate

dinner with Bradley Cooper. Well, well, well. By intimate dinner, I mean like me and 20 other people at a dinner for his new movie with him and Will or Nat and a couple of people. What'd you guys had to wait a second. Is this thing on? It was on. Uh, this thing was on. And Bradley, of course, did depart before dinner was over to pick up his daughter from Russian class. I was like, okay. But I chatted to Bradley Cooper for a bit. And all I wanted to ask him about was Clint Eastwood because, of course, I'm obsessed with Clint Eastwood.

And that is what I was asking about. And I was sort of like, is it like, is, is it as intense as you imagine? And he was like, not at all. No, no, no. He was like, he's like, jazz, baby. He's just walking around. He's like, why don't you try this? It's all very flowing and smooth.

And like, and he was like, and there were a couple times when we screwed something up. Oh, interesting. And like, it was okay. Yeah. Like, nobody was like. Meaning they didn't get it or something. Right, where it's like, yeah, no, we can relight it. We can, you know, it's like, it wasn't quite as severe as you imagine as how he was putting it to me.

Obviously, he's Bradley Cooper. He probably is a little more, you know, way to throw around. But I think that's also like, I think the misnomer is, if you got it, you got it. And you move on. Yeah. And I think that's the difference. Clint's whole thing is also, it's just like, I think the more you do it, the more you get away from it. Like, that's, like, philosophy is what you hear.

By the way, I was just double-checking. The person that I talked to about Clint is with Saul Rubinick. Oh, there you know. Of course, and he's so good in him. Right. And so I just, like, I think it is. Yeah. And, but that idea being like, they, it's like, like, Alfred Hitchcock would talk about.

Like, he's like, oh, I've already done the hard part before I get to set. I think the coins are closer to that. From what I have heard without being. Because they prepare so meticulously for all the visual stuff. That Hitchcock was almost like dismissive of actors. Right. Hitchcock is the kind of like. He's moving dolls around the set. And my little playmobile figure.

And impediment to his perfect creative vision. Finct you ask if you would argue. I think Eastwood is, I hired you, I trust you, do whatever you want. I am an act. But come prepared, know your lines. I expect you to be a professional, but then it's your, this is your space. I'm not going to pull this out of you. Right.

And the problem is when people are great in Eastwood movies, when he's cast them perfectly, they fucking kill it. And you see people who are sort of like stranded at sea and you know that he wasn't giving them any help, right? Well, and I think that you can also say that for Soderberg is like that too sometimes. I think Sotaburg moves very quickly. And sometimes people can really be like pop in a Soterberg. Why is he not like, tending him?

to me. The thing I've always heard about the Coens is that they just don't want to get into the psychology of it. It's very objective-based, but they know what they want. They love collaboration. But if I go up to them and I'm like, and why am I robbing this bank? They would be like, shh. That's not, yeah. Because you need the money.

Like, that's what they would say, you know? That's very, um, mammat. That's very like, just say the lines. They won't let you fuck up. Like, they won't let you drown and they will take the time to get it right. And that's the difference. It's like there's not, there are very few bad performance. if any in not really yeah well that's a triumph of casting and their scripts are incredible i was at i

heard rogan on the lobowski right labowski i was at that uh reading uh of labowski the library no i was in the audience and what blew my mind when watching it because i know that movie so well was how much of the ums and us how much of the the the unique speech patterns for everybody were in the writing They weren't, the actors hadn't brought that cadence or those things to it. It was all there. That blew me away. If you build up the career like this, you start to enter a magical phase that I think is very similar to West Anderson right now, where it's like everyone knows what the tone of our performances in one of your movies, what they like out of actors, how the language should sound. It's easy to do the work at home.

A lot of security is like, I know you do a good job. Like if you're on a West Anderson set or whatever. But you also don't. The script is written so specifically, and the, like, proof of concept exists out there, and you go, I think I can figure out what they want and come correct. And I think the interesting difference with Wes Anderson, and maybe I'm making a generalization here, but he really does go, I'm going to work the same people, because I don't even want to, I mean, there are new people every now and then, but it's like, it feels like I, these people will deliver this thing, whereas the Cohen's feel like they are, there's a stable, but they are bringing in new people and you're, and they're killing it. Like, I feel, you know, it's like they don't, they seem that they want to meet new talent. Well, and there's a greater variety in their tones. They will switch within a couple different modes within, versus the West Anderson making very different films that all have a very similar sensibility.

So you see this film. Yeah. You've watched the first two segments. And I feel like you're like, okay, I get it. This is Cohn Brothers Western, like, little nuggets being thrown at me. And then you watch Meal Ticket. Because I feel like meal ticket has to be the third where it's like a little bit of like, halt. this is not quite it's not all going to be bandits and Indians and cowboys and banks and

you're right like meal ticket is a crazy uh meal ticket was my favorite the first time i saw it meal ticket was my favorite because it was so it's it's so affecting and i think it even hits harder after the first two like you're just like oh like the the scene where he is having sex with like the prostitute and that and he's just looking down the barrel the camera like Oh, my God. It's just like... He turned him away. Henry Melling?

Is that his name? Harry Melling? I'm so sorry. He said this completely transformed his career. Obviously, he's Dudley-Durseley. But this is kind of his reclamation. Yes. Absolutely incredible because the vast majority of this piece is only him reciting all of these incredible monologues.

Without the use of most of his body. Without his extremities. And it is just on him. And there is no dialogue until almost the end. You know? And that is, I mean, ancillary dialogue, any dialogue between him and Liam D. But Nissen says, like, a combined 40 words in this thing, maximum. And I feel like Harry Melling does not have a single line off stage.

He doesn't communicate unless he's doing the poetry. He is like, he is the chicken. Right. Like, I mean, he is not a human. And that is so, and that's so interesting to me. It's like, this is about podcasts having to pivot to video, right? That's what it's about. That's what the chicken is.

It is. Yeah. The comedic concept that one time is an occurrence, two times it's coincidence, three times as a pattern, right? It's this is to your point, David, where they're starting to train you to understand, oh, there is a through line. All of these stories are going to come back to the same notion of how we negotiate death, right? And that Franco is this guy who, in my opinion, my reading is he thinks he's above it. He starts to think that he's magical, that nothing can get to him, right? Maybe I'm invincible.

And he has this final moment where he looks at the young girl. the crowd, and he's not even concerned about the noose around his neck. There's a pretty girl. Because he's basically, as James Franko was want to do when he sees a young woman in a crowd, he's basically thinking like, oh, it'll be great when I go flirt with that woman in like half an hour when I'm down from here. I'm going to, the nuisance will break and I'll make a run for it. I think he's not like imagining wouldn't it be great if I was there with her.

He's thinking I will be there. Well, he's there to say death is inescapable. And if you think you got away with it, you didn't. So watching that segment, you don't really know what it's about. And the second it ends with his death and then, like, hard out, that's where they're teaching you, oh, this is going to come for everyone in this segment in some way or another. Well, then what is the difference that you see between the first and second, like, approach to death? Because obviously, Buster Scruggs feels invincible. Yeah.

He feels like death is never going to come from. He's never. He's not even thinking about it. No, he is a showman and he is, you know, almost showboating around it. And that's what gets him killed. then the second one it's like I guess maybe the difference is that the first person feels like he's unkillable

the second one feels like he can escape death and the third one is it's inevitable well and the third one you're watching it and you're like what does this have to do with the other two outside of like the the brutality of this time I think there's something about how in the first

in each of the first two you could argue death is coming for them because they are engaged in life and death events they are they are seeking out or are part of things that lead to people's deaths Melling is a true innocent he is seemingly also out of danger right so it even comes for the innocent yes the cruelty of this world is that even the innocent even the artists even the soft are going to be Melling is movie theaters and the chicken is Netflix okay and that is that is

true and T Sarandos does have the chicken in his office I mean my reading is that this This is, where were you going to say? No, no, I have a reading too, but what's your reading? This is them commenting on the kind of level of disdain that show business has for the creators. I agree. A little bit of that. A hundred percent. They view them as freaks, and their job is to, like, build an industry around their bizarre thing.

And also grab the next thing that, like, grab the next thing. There's no loyalty to the thing. The second you don't have an audience. Right. You are garbage to me. But Neeson is sympathetic, partly because it's William Neeson is a great actor, like, but he could do so much with his face or whatever. But, like, he does feel bad. But to my point,

when he's not tossed someone in the river. And to what you were saying, right, of, like, he seems safe. This is not a guy who exists in a world of danger, right? He has been rescued. One of the few full lines that Neeson has is when he's going to the crowd with the can, collecting money. And he's patting himself on the back for, like, isn't it such a sad story? Look at him.

I found him in the street like this, no arms and legs. I saved him. Like, he's giving himself the honor of, look at me, the hero who discovered the nobility. of this man with a poet's heart and the ability to speak to the masses. But that's a studio head. Totally. And then the second he stops drawing a crowd, it's like, this guy's fucking garbage.

Well, yes, it's somebody who used to care about putting art out and is now concerned with Mike. He wants the prestige of standing next to high art. Beyond everyone's studios takes, and you guys definitely are not annoyed at Hollywood at all in any ways. Everything in Hollywood is going according

to plan. A plus A-O-K. Our careers are going perfectly and exactly how we thought they would play out. it's also like in these ideas of the west is this like you know the you know uh white american european culture is encroaching on this like wild land right where they're like listen gathered you know uh peasants to say you know to the shakespeare and the percy by you know and like i love those reaction shots of like the old people going just like they don't know what he's saying right like it's but these like words are so interesting and like you know then there's the brutality like yeah

but at the end of the day, they're gonna like the chicken more. So like, you know, there's only so much civilization. Remember when Brian Cox and the actors all came to Deadwood? I do. I love that sequence of episodes.

It is amazing because you're watching Deadwood knowing season three is the last season. David Milch doesn't know that or whatever. You know, like, yeah, yeah. And, and you know, like with about four episodes to go, suddenly it's about Brian Cox like ordering ham. And you're like, this is one episode, right? And it's like, no, this is like three episodes.

Anyway. But I will, but I guess maybe in a broader sense, it's just about how new takes over, like, a mom and pop, a mom and pop store gets taken over by a target, right? Like, I mean, and it's, and it's about culture evolving. Somebody figures out, oh, this is a simpler way, an easier way, a showy way being replaced by reality TV. And that's why we went on strike in 2007. And we got everything we needed. But I mean, but I do think that like, yes, we are looking at it through the lens of like directors and actors, but I also think that that is how society runs, too.

The newer, flasher thing will always overtake. I think there are a couple other things going on. I mean, you know, you were saying that they went to Netflix and they went to Anna Perner because they said, what studio is going to greenlight this? But you look at some of the quotes they have from talking about setting up this film and beyond like, well, we're doing something weird and unconventional, so we have to go to an unconventional place. They were already saying, it does feel like a kind of grown-up movie has died.

It does feel like the industry. is shifted. It does feel like it's harder to sell anything that isn't Marvel. And these are guys who have been able to do basically. They've been doing that for 30 years. Exactly what they want for decades. And even while still getting things made, they're like, we can feel it moving.

We can feel it moving past us. Maybe we're Harry Melling and the crowd starting to thin out. We've not been thrown over the bridge yet, but you can see it going down. And it's always going to come to the brass tacks of does it cost less to feed a chicken than a guy? Right?

Like, that's what's so brutal about the segment is you really see that the calculation in Liam Neeson's mind is like, I got to feed him with the spoon. I got to think about his feelings. This chicken, you just throw some corner out. I got to make him a stew. I got to hold him while he shits and pisses. Right. It's the bag of feed is the thing that changes it for him where he's just like, it's just this. Well, I think that the image of from behind him with the bird cage looking out into the thing.

It's like, it's just, it's an easier, it's an easier life. And it's a, and it, that's, he's living a hard life. Everyone's just trying to survive. That opening is just like, I'm putting down the thing. I'm putting down the hat. I'm doing this other thing. It just seems so hard. But I also wonder, and I don't know if I have an answer for this, why was that guy so

willing to sell a chicken? Like, you know, like, sure. Is this chicken going to die in a year? I mean, it's a chicken. Right. Like, yeah, it always felt to me like the chicken is a scam. Yeah. Right.

You know, it does feel like, yeah, this chicken can't actually do me. And my reading is also that needs. So that Neeson, like, wildly overpaid. That Nieson basically put his life save in for the check. Because there was a part of me that felt like, there's a get rich quick scheme. There's a part of me, and I think I wanted this moment is like, that guy had, I mean, this is a full invention, that that guy had a little man underneath that cart to do the man. And he's not selling him. And he's not selling a man.

Right. Because that's the scheme. Or he paid with plants, audience plants. Right. Whatever. I think the chicken isn't as much of a golden goose as he thinks it is. It's a chicken. It's not a goose.

Okay, I'm sorry. But by the kid, I grew up in New York. Now that is French for time. Okay, but wait a second. Let me try. As a kid, I went with my dad to Chinatown all the time. And I saw this.

This is what I saw. It was the most exciting, fun thing to ever see. It was so cool. It was like a chicken that could do mad. And they had a game, a Tick-Tac-toe game where you would play against a chicken. It was like a battery-powered game. And it was like, And it was like, it was great.

Right. And obviously there was Letterman's stupid Patrick's. Right. Yeah. I think quite possibly the answer is... Now, it should have been Letterman taking his cabin boy character. Now, that's a universe. Letterman would have crushed in Buster Scruggs.

They could have tossed him in there. I think Letterman in that section might have been fantastic. Want to buy a monkey? His cabin boy character would fit perfectly in this film. I think part of what's going on, even if it's not like a little man, it's in the building of the cart or it's in the way he trains the chicken. I think this guy, Liam Neemnison's coming up. up to him, offering to pay more and more money, and he's like, the chicken's not the thing.

There's some secret that he's not selling to Liam Neeson. And even if he is telling him the secret, he's like, I can replace the chicken. Right. The chicken's not the thing. If I want to still do the chicken act, I go to a farm, I get a new chicken. He didn't sell him the cart. Right. And the cart, I mean, I guess it's buyer beware too.

I mean, but I guess, but you don't see the buyer beware part. Right. You just see the shiny new. You just see how quickly he makes the calculation. You also don't see him kill Harry Melling. You just infer what it's happened. That sound effect, that plonk is brutal. It's tough.

And I also, I think to what you were saying, David, there's this notion of, oh, my God, they're bringing high art to the people, right? Here's a sophisticated show in this audience sits, wrapped attention, you know, giving him ultimate respect, and then applauding. But the subtext is, they're here to see the freak. Right? Like, the fact that he's such a good, dramatic orator is the party trick. It's no different than a chicken being able to do math.

The actual thing that's interesting is the creature on stage. Right. And that's just the dressing on top of it. And the second, like, the material isn't working. Right. The novelty of the guy is out the window and the guy has no value. But I also, but I think I would argue that what's interesting is I may not have understood what that guy said.

and I may not have even gotten the point but it left me thinking and that was interesting and that was cool and maybe part of that is the body but the other thing is irrefutable I saw an animal do math I know what I saw and that is like I get a point

A to B kind of it's like I can tell you what I saw where the other one is like quicker dopamine hit. I felt something I don't know how I felt about it and I can't tell you it's it is art it's a difference of art and yeah it's also the difference

that this isn't being framed as like a side show act, right? Like, there are guys like Johnny Eck who's in like freaks, who was the famous half man who lacked a lower body. Right. He's not showing off his, he's showing off his acting skills. There were so many successful performers of this time who were born with like different like physical issues, right, who then made their act, watch me roll a cigarette with my teeth, you know, watch me do this without legs. And he's not doing that. The fact that he is armless and legless is irrelevant to the material of what he's doing. And, you know,

Yet the harsh reality is they would not be bothering to pay attention to you if you didn't look like this. Well, yeah. And I also feel like they make a really cool choice of not making him like the minute he gets off stage going, I'm a motherfucker, you know, it's like, yeah, you don't do the baby here. Right. Yeah. You don't, you just don't hear him. He doesn't talk.

No, he doesn't talk. But what is, like a parent who like you put the shit over the cage and he just, but you see his face and you know that that's why I think the emotion is. It's why it's why that guy, Harry Melling, is in a. lot of stuff now. Like looking at his face, you're just like, this is incredible actor. There is a sadness to his existence and his inability to connect, and when he is on stage, he feels like a person. He is speaking

some truth for him, and the idea that people are paying attention to makes him feel like he is valid. And I actually think, to your point, they might come because he has no, you know, he has this odd body, but that goes out the window once it starts. And I think that that's actually a really

beautiful thing, too. It's like, oh, I'm just caught up in this. Yeah, they are moved by him. It's true. It's also such a funny use of Neeson, who they have never worked with before. No. Right? And it's just like stripping down everything about Liam Neeson as a movie star culturally, which especially in the late 2010s is like, now you've had this whole fucking like Euro thriller. Right.

Yeah. And it's like you're taking away that. You're taking away like dramatic actor, Oscar Schindler. You're just like, this guy looks really strange and has a very intense voice. Liam Neeson is just a physical presence and a vocal presence. that is one of one, and what if you put that in entirely different context, and you're just like, there's a lot going on in this guy? Well, it's also, he does not, and in a way that Liam Neeson could feel so imposing and so

threatening, and he doesn't. He feels small. And even when he's measuring the depth of the water with the rock, you don't feel like there is cruelty or malice. No. You feel like he is sad. He is sad that he, yes, he's doing an incredible. job and he thinks it's a mercy killing like that's part of the tragedy and like the brutality of

this movie you know and in his exploration of death as a concept is that he's doing the math of if he can't bring an audience anymore then he should be dead right and it's not as a as a judgment it speaks to to a certain extent that he has always viewed him as a little less than human but he thinks it is an act of sympathy i'll put you out of your suffering i also think that what i get a I go back to the opening. I think the openings of all of these are really interesting because you open with putting on the thing.

He's setting up the, like, it's hard. And it's like, it's like he is a, yes, he's in show business, but he's doing manual labor.

Like he, and this is, he is, I think, beaten down by it's every night, a different town, everything. It's like,

and he's doing actually more work to put it on the podcast. Yeah, to put it. He's setting up the cameras. He's editing. Clips. Right. And it's like, and it's, and wouldn't it be easier? Wouldn't it just my life be better? And it's like, and I think that that's what you see. Like, you're not seeing him on the day that he found him.

You're not seeing on the, like, this is what, seven years in? Whatever it is. It's like, and you feel those years. It's just never going to change. It's never getting better. And his life is empty and alone. And it's, I don't know. I think it's a very like, they're both sympathetic characters. And I also love that it's not like packed house. and then one night it's empty and he goes for the chicken that you see a real kind of durational the crowd tapering off and they're not coming back

and you see like four or five performances that are all losing energy. Right? This guy's like sticking it out. Alco Canyon is the next one. Yes. We have to talk about that one. On a Jack London story?

It is. I don't know much about it apart from that it's a Jack London story. Of course, that's sorry. Tom Waits one, which is Jack London. and it's the guy who wrote white fang and all that all those boys adventures called the wild this is like a silent short this is as close to a silent short

as I think you can get it there are two great words that get repeated yeah mr. Pocken but also does have the Tim Robinson thing not to keep it of like it's so beautiful it's so quiet and then when he gets shot he's like you motherfucker yeah he won't stop saying you suck yeah

why did you do that yeah you shot me in the bag I did all this work like he's just saying we're like we know we know we whilst you do it? You know, but he's like, it really stuck you shabby in the back. Well, also,

this is like the most innately... It didn't hit nothing important. Oh. Ben, you want to speak. It went right through. Yeah. Hit nothing but guts.

I think Tom Waits is perfect. Agreed. He's perfect. I, I, how has they never... I was going to say, how has he never been in a Cohen brothers?

Were they writing it, I think, I wonder, like thinking of him the entire time. Yeah, I would love to know. I would think so. especially even just the choice of the song to kick off the segment feels so just part of his repertoire.

And that it bookends. As he is leaving through the exact same way that he came, he's singing the same song again, which I thought was beautiful. Now, this is their first one I shot on digital. Oh, I didn't mention this. After Roger Deacon said he would never shoot on digital. Well, it's not Deacons. It's Bruno Del Bonnell. Oh, interesting. I didn't notice that. I do feel like this is, like, obviously, the most, like, them being, like, the magnificent.

sense, right? Like, you know, it's so beautiful and lush. The crystal clarity of... Right, the animals and all that. Right. And, like, they're messing with the style in each segment, and this is the, like, the true, just like the majesty of the West. And it's like, but of course, at the end of the day,

it's a weird little Santa Claus just trying to dig rocks out of the ground. Do you think that there's a connection between, like, giving a voice to the legless guy from the last, you know, like, in this one, because it's sort of like, He is killed for, you know, he's like, he's shot in the bad.

Like, there's a bad thing. Like, how could you do this? Like, it's like, you, you hear the voice of the aggrieved in that moment. And I feel like you don't get to hear that in the one before. You measly skunk. Well, this is the great thing about the segment is that he doesn't die. That after watching three in a row, right, you're like, I get it. All of these are people marching towards their inevitable death.

And because of the tension that is built from just how methodical it is, how slow it is, the process of the finding it, the thing with the owl, which starts to feel supernatural, you know, or at least kind of like spiritual in a way, you're just like, how's this guy going to fucking get it? But you're watching it and you like this guy so fucking much. And he's cooking the egg with the fish. Hard, right? And he only takes one egg.

Yeah, right? I love it. He could get greedy, but he's like, I'll just take one. He's like, how much can an owl count? Yeah, exactly. But this thing feels so lush and romantic and he is so sympathetic that you're just like, oh, Jesus Christ. And he's good at it. When's the axe going to fall in his head?

And I hate it. And there's this tension. I love the process of digging each exploratory hole. Oh, less, less, less. Oh, let me go the other way. More, more, more. Now less. Okay.

So the vein is somewhere up here. The counting of the like three, shake new spot four. It reminded me in many ways of the opening of there will be blood in the sense of like, methodical there. And obviously that character goes downhill. But it's like, but, you know, with rich, but becoming rich. This character, I feel like he will not stop. Shooting will not stop.

Like, he will get his thing. And that's a, that's the same thing when he breaks his leg in the opening of their would be bloody. How long was that town for how far was that? But for that, you're like, this is what makes a man evil. Like, this is the death of his soul. This is a guy who perhaps had no morality to begin with. And then he's forged in the darkness of this, like, pit to come out and do whatever

he needs to survive. And then versus this story, which is like, what if you start with like an old Walter Brennan-style coot, who's usually just the butt of the joke and the character who maybe gets a little moment of, like, more emotion. But if you really got to live with this guy and his process, it's hard not to start caring about him, especially as something of an innocent versus these other stories. He's working so hard. Working so hard.

And you're like, God, what a waste when someone's going to come steal all his fucking gold. You know that's what's going to happen. And the satisfaction. I thought it was crazy when he's digging those holes and he keeps finding jeans. He keeps buying genes. These are even more valuable than the gold.

We're thousands. Congratulations. Why oh you? David. David? Yes. This episode, you didn't respond the first time,

so I had to intensify. This episode is once again brought to you by our friends at AG1. Your best friend. My best friend. friends, I'm looking at this copy here and they're giving you some notes, right? Make it personal. Talk to a friend. This isn't a read. It's a recommendation. I don't need any of

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It is. It's kind of a Tetris shape corner. Yeah, it requires specific measuring, you know, to fit something in there. We've never known what to do with it. One could call it a nook. It's like too small for a couch, too big for just a chair. Oh, what are we going to do? No solution anywhere in sight.

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That's W-A-Y-F-A-R-D-R.com. Sale ends December 7th. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know what to say about this one, except that it's just truly delightful. And I think it's like, but I think this is what the benefit, the beauty of this movie is,

there are some that are very slight and I think that they do something that's interesting. It's like, Walter Brennan, here's a twist on Walter Brennan. here's a very simple you know what we a subverting of expectation in two ways character

and your ending and then boom and we're fine and we just move on it's like the James Franco one it's like the Franco one similar it's like right what if you did like a current Stalky Bridge

but without the twist well I think the other thing going on in this short is him putting back two of the three eggs right yes right in the words of our great American poet

Seth McFarland there are a million ways to die in the West right okay and as much as there is. Yeah, true. Liam Easton in that as well.

But it's also kind of in the words of one of our great Navi poets, Natiri, kind of educating Sully on like, only take what you need. Yes. You know what I mean? Exactly. Does that empire and ash? We'll see. We'll see.

That because of the way they filmed The Owl, right? Yeah. You're like, oh, this is going to be a story about a man who is cursed for his greed. Right. Right. That the owl is going to place some kind of curse upon him. But these are like people trying to survive. They make terrible decisions, uncharismatic decisions.

but it's part of the danger and the lawlessness of this time that you get the sense if he had grabbed three eggs because he, why not? I'm hungry. The owl would have like spited him and smited him. Right. But the generosity of, I get it, you just need to survive. As long as you're only eating one of my babies, I'm looking out for you. And I think that there's also a lot of that like that care. Like it's the same thing that happens with Franco, with the Native American. And like on the horse, like it comes up to me. It's like there's, there is sympathy or there is. Connection, right?

It's a respect for life. Right. And also this is the guy who's like in touch with nature, in touch with the land, in touch with the world, you know? It like has some inner sense of joy. And the owl's like, as long as you're not taking more than you need, I accept that this is just the give and take of life. Right.

And then it feels like that is almost supernaturally what makes the bullet go through him which allows him to like get you know and everybody who dies so far is taking liberties right like our first character everyone is taking a little bit more than they need to if it's talking to the camera and the first one if it's you know committed like it's like they're not learning their less than they are continually well what else can i get and the joy he gets from killing this young guy in revenge is as you're saying david like a principled like i worked this hard and you're just going to take it for me like that's not how this works just him seeing the movie movement, the shadow movement on the ground in front of him on the hole, and knowing there's

someone there and he's shot before he even looks is great. I love that image too, how his shirt gets more bloody, too. Like, when you're above it, it's a beautiful shot. I'm old, but you're older. And you're just so happy when he, like, rides off singing and you're like, oh, my God, he makes it out of this alive. He doesn't ride off. I'm sorry. He drags his donkey. I almost, I just love that detail, too, about the character. Yeah. Right, right. Workman like. It's again, it's a another like, I'm not leaving anything behind. It's like, you know, it's, it's, it's thoughtful. Yeah.

He's committed to doing it the old way. Audio only. No video. Exactly. No video, just audio like the medium was intended. Now, we've broken the pattern, right? So it's like, this is the first segment in which arguably our central character doesn't die at the end.

Right. Right. So then when you enter the Zoe Kazan segment. Get ready for a hammer blow. But maybe you don't know that. That for me is. like the value of this one why it does need to be longer because it's like fucking with your whole even like your internal rhythms of like this one feels like it's going deeper than the other one

I also misremembered this one too as I was watching because I thought that I remembered her brother dying and then I was like then and the guy the wagon train guy um falling in love with her and I had remembered it as him dying as well what and that everybody around her starts to fall and it wasn't that and I was once again like heartbroken at the end up and And you end up the final. Bill, he is so good in this. He is. He's fantastic.

No, you end with the final shot of just seeing, what's his name, Mr. Andrews? Yeah. Riding off in the distance to tell him. Mr. Arthur. What am I going to tell Bill Knapp is what the line says. Yes. I just think it's so good in the way, like, the movie has trained you to feel like you understand how these stories are going to go.

And then this up ends it by being like, these are the most human characters you have seen yet. We're really investing in their emotional dynamic. There is, like, a sensitivity and a subtlety and a presence to this. It is the least showy cinematically. It feels like when they are in conversation, it is, like, sustained shot, reverse shot mediums where he is, like, they are letting the actors control the scenes. I will also say that these last two pieces are heavily dialogue-driven, right? Right, right, versus maybe the tranquility of the fourth one.

And, you know, it's like all, I mean, throughout, I mean, throughout, they're, they're very, like, I mean, yes. And, like, while that performer is doing these monologues, it's not like, it's not, it's not a, it's not a, it's not talking to each other, right? And it's like, their monologues happening. Yeah. And I feel like that opening sequence is something like it felt like out of a serious man or something like, like it's a dinner table. It's quick and it's, and it's, and it's a, and it's like, oh, wow. Like that, like that, I love that opening. I'm like, whoa, what is this?

But it's also so weird. There's like, yeah. They're doing all the Western stuff, but you're like, oh, wait, is this Johnny guitar? Is this like a really strange lens to do them on? Because you're like, there's a wagon train. There's this notion of an arranged marriage. There's the future out west. Like, what is this?

The untrustworthy brother. You know, what's it, you know. And who is going to screw over who? Like, who's lying? There's a sort of sense of misdirect of you're trying to get ahead of them and go, like, what is this segment? And it takes so long to reveal itself. and because Tom Waits walks off Scott Free and because the brother dies early in this,

even if you've accepted these are all about death, you go, maybe it's about grieving. Maybe it's about living in the wake of a death of someone close. You are lulled into a sense of security of this is not going to just be a tragic rug pull of this romance ending up. How death could maybe actually create new life? Because that's what you're kind of seeing.

We're going to get married. We're going to stay here from the homestead act. We're going to, and it will be, we'll actually build something better than even going to the other, the new frontier. And it's going on longer and it's living more with these characters. It grows past feeling like a sketch, right? It starts to feel like they're asking me to invest real emotional weight into this. So clearly they wouldn't bite my hand. I lose.

Bite your hand, speaking of, like one of my favorite things in this one is how disliked by everyone the dog is. Like, how to go again. against the grain of everything else, which is the dog is the villain, you know, like that she even is like, that's not my dog. You could argue. If everybody's mad at the dog, it's not me. You could argue in a long tail way, the dog is the most responsible for her death. Yes. Right.

Oh, yeah. She doesn't go off if the dog doesn't. Right. She's not walking at the prairie dogs or whatever. But I also, if he kills the dog successfully. Yes. Happy, happy ending. They're married.

Right. Yeah. Well, what I also love about it is the way that they see. the punchline, right? Or the setup is really kind of beautifully hidden. It's like, okay, look, if this goes down like this, you know, like, you hear it and it sounds like very heroic, but you don't, like, it's like when you realize it at the end, right,

oh, right. It like, it really is a magic trick ending because it tells you what's, what's happening. It's like, if I go down, you kill yourself. But his line at the end is like, poor girl. She didn't know she could have made it. Yeah. You know that it's like this.

interpretation of a second of a moment, of a moment, of a movement, of a sound. But he made her so afraid and gave her what to do. And she told her the story of the future. Right. And this was the better of two bad options. And it's like if he had set up a second earlier, if he had made a noise. But you, but here's my thought about it too. She has just gone through death. Right. And she, and I think that she's quick. Like, she's not. maybe if she didn't go through death she would have waited a moment more

but like she's like okay boom she made that choice instantly and I don't know if that's about grief I don't know what that if that's about grief but I have to imagine that that quickness of the choice feels like she's been there she knows and she's here's what I think it's about

I think this segment is about two characters very very tentatively and with great doubt considering has the world reached a state of modernity where we could live a life based on happiness first? And the fact that it's all about

you have to get in this wagon and follow your shitty dumb brother because he might have a prospect of a man for you to marry because maybe you're seen as a little plain and a little timid no wants to marry you and that's your ultimate value

as a woman, right? There's no notion of marrying for love, marrying for happiness. No, it's like you're making it to argue you're going to have to survive. Like we're planting footholds out here, baby. I think she plays a beautiful balance of she's not treating this as

she's walking towards her death sentence. It is what it is. I guess I maybe have to marry my brother's friend, but maybe he's not even that interested in me. Maybe there's not a guy there, whatever, right? Yeah, and she doesn't play, and I was thinking about this, too, she doesn't play it totally either.

Like, I think a lot of times you see, like, true, or you see, like, so tentative, so awkwardly, like, oh, no one will like this is a unlikable thing. She's just kind of... Is what it is. vanilla. Like, that's it. You know, it's like, she's nice. And in their odd backwards courtship, which is sort of like presented as a marriage

of convenience, you know, an arrangement that this is a business proposal, this is a survival mechanism, whatever. They are both refusing to really let themselves accept that maybe this is what they emotionally want. All of their conversations keep happening in non-emotional terms while there is clearly an emotional connection happening, where the reason she hesitates when he proposes it to her is I think what she plays very well is the notion of, I actually have caught feelings for this guy and him presenting it as,

well, I'll just do this because it saves us both money. Is that a worse fate for me to end up with a guy who I care about, who is viewing me as means to an end, or is he doing this out of pity? That would hurt me more, that they're both feeling each other out of being too afraid to acknowledge, I actually think I just like you, because that's not really

a thing afforded to people. But it's also not what was being done at that time. Exactly. People weren't marrying for love and for, you know, it was convenience. It was arrangements that made sense. And so you justify, like you have to justify your feelings through some sort of balance sheet that this world identifies and says is the right way to do it. The tragedy of her brother's death opens up an opportunity of living a life of enjoyment

and pleasure, right? And, like, self-fulfillment and being understood and seen, which both of them feel skeptical about. And his whole fear is, obviously, I don't want to end up, like, fucking Mr. Arthur. This guy's, like, the best of the West. But what?

He's an old man who, like, sleeps on rocks. You know? And, like, what, he's going to die in two years. I feel this guilt of leaving him here to do this alone. But also, this is probably my only off-ramp to living a, quote-unquote, normal life. Well, a life that is, or a life

that could be happy or full of love. And in the last segment, which, David, would you like to segue into the last segment? Absolutely, the Mortimer remains, my favorite segment, but also a perfect, like I said, capper to their career in a way. We'll say I gave Zoe Kazan a supporting actress nomination this same year as well.

She's pretty stunning. She makes this piece work with every moment she's on screen. She is electric to watch. Don't want to see her. Can I say one thing about it? Because we just, as you just were talking about that, I just want to put one thing and we'll go right in five. is that idea that

is there also a thing about it's easy to give up? Very. And I feel like that like, because it's like she doesn't give up initially, you know, and when her brother dies and she got, I'm going to move forward. She doesn't give up again. Like she keeps on not giving up, but then at the end it's like it's too hard. I'm just

going to. Yeah, at a certain point it's like Jesus Christ. Like how I'm, what, like what's life going to be like? Right. I'm probably in my 20s. I probably have a life expectancy of 40. Like, what are we doing? Right. And it's like, and already in this like handful of days like everything's being

right I mean it's the wish is the wagon train thing I can't go back where's back I guess there's no future ahead of me but my past exists even less and then suddenly this this sliver of hope opens up towards not just a possible future but possibly a good love-filled future in the final episode

when they're in the thing and the trapper is talking about the woman that he was involved with and someone says did you love her like this is I think the first time the word love has been spoken in the entire movie. And he's like, what? Like, what are you even talking about?

Like, what is love? Right, that's a luxury. That's like, that doesn't exist for another hundred years. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you could argue that the characters in the first three segments, I mean, like, Tom Waits is obviously a guy who refuses to give up and wins, right? Right.

But the other three are people who push through some kind of struggle or danger. And you look at their ultimate deaths. and you go, would it have been better if they just gave up at an earlier point? Right. Like, what are you fighting for? But meanwhile, when she gives up,

it was just over the crest of the hill where her life is. Her new life is... It was about to happen. Right. And she gave up because of a misunderstanding, which is, I just think, such a profound tragedy.

Yeah. It's beautiful. And this one's loosely based on a couple different pieces. It's based on a story called the gal who got rattled by Stuart Edward White. I don't know much more about it.

I mean, that's why this... So it's this one in the tombs Waits, which is why this snuck in as an adapted screenplay. It was a high nomination because no one was really thinking of this as an adapted movie. Right. But also, I feel like the specific story that is cited is also based on kind of a legend of a folk tale of similar sort of like a, yeah, Western, like, you know, this is like a Western trope. Yeah. And I mean, like, and that's why I feel like the end is really when you talk about like different. And that and that I think is why like when you. leave this movie, it all pulls it. I mean, it really does pull the cords all together at the end.

Well, the final one, the final one being this kind of, it was so starkly different, both in how it's done, how it looks. It is so insular. It is almost entirely inside of the carriage. It's in a studio. Right. The creepiness of you realize how dark it's gotten. And then, and then the extra creepiness of them being like, stop, stop the carriage. and they're like, oh, it doesn't stop, like, for anything. Like, Tyne Daily might just have to bite it, like, you know, and then... And this is an episode of The Daily Show.

We should call that. And this is an episode of Cagney and Lacey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is an episode of Cagney and Lacey. No, I'm more of a judging Amy. I... Oh, Brennan. She was so good on that. I will also say that this is...

I think why I lean in a lot here, too, is like, these are five actors that are just... This is dialogue, heavy, and I am riveted to it. And maybe it's also because... of the lack of it or this kind of pacing all the way through. It's like, yeah. But this is a classic Cohen's juice of just watching like five great character actors fucking cut

it up. Chelsea Ross, who I love. Great. The great Chelsea Ross, who plays the trapper, just gets to pop off for five minutes. Marklin Baker. Marklin Baker. Who's Marklin? No, no. Who is it? Do you mean as the Englishman? No. Who do you mean? Saul Rubeneck

is the Frenchman. Yes. Tyn Daly is the... Is Mrs. Betchman. Yes. Who am I thinking? I think you think of John Joe O'Neill, unless you're thinking of Brendan Gleason. I always think John Joe O'Neill is Jeremy Strong, or not Jeremy Strong, Danny Strong. It is not. I know what you're saying. It looks like. The guy's name is John Joe O'Neill. He also kind of looks like Marklin Big. Does he look like Marklin Bigger? He looks like Marklin Bigger. Okay. He looks like a lot of other guys.

But his name is John Joe O'Neill. He's mostly like an Irish theater actor. But they've all got a monologue, except for Brendan Gleason, who has a song, I feel. I love that. We're sort of trading off like, like, everybody. everybody gets to talk sort of almost uninterrupted for a bit. He's also part of a duo act that can be read very cleanly as a self-inser of the Coens or at least kind of thinking about how they are perceived by their critics. That is part of my reading of this segment. That you have these people who represent, this segment is almost like a fucking Pixar's inside out argument between different positions on.

kind of philosophies or yeah it's a philosophical debate each character is representing a side of it right you you have uh the sol Rubinette character who is like actually just a philosopher he is a guy who's very caught up an academic notion of studying uh theories of existence you have a religious woman who also lives with a kind of shuttered blinded denial of certain areas of existence and but she's also specifically like uh she subscribes to like chautauqua thought which was like a big thing right at the turn of the century in terms of what she's talking about, that kind of temperate woman's movement, whereas Chelsea Ross is like, I don't know, I'm a dirty guy with a big beard who married to Native American, but I realized we're all the same.

But that's the best part about it is, no matter what you believe, it all is the same. Exactly. Right. Chelsea Ross has no theology. He's just like, I fuck a woman, it doesn't matter, I can't talk to her. I catch some beavers. We kind of do some hand signals. It's all good.

It's all good. And then you have these two brothers who I think are representing this notion of the Coens as these sort of like mordant tricksters who love like spitefully kind of like mockingly sending characters to their death. Well, and that's what I think is kind of this if it is the they say. We like watching them die. Which is what their critics say. They know. I know. I know. Exactly. Putting dumb characters in Jane, Janger and having them die terrible. Oh, go ahead. I was going to say they even say like, oh, you can bring them in dead or alive. And they're like, yeah, but we bring them in dead. Like, don't worry. We kill them.

everybody yeah but i love that if this is the last one and whether it was not intentional probably that they didn't know it's like not entirely but this is the first time i feel like you see the two of them represented i mean these are very much them right i mean yes yes yes and and even down to they are bounty hunters who at whose act is one guy's a performer right who distracts so that the other guy can attack which speaks to this kind of like the two-headed director thing that people talk about with them of like two guys approaching the same motive from different angles. I've always heard also that one talks to you about acting and one is worried all about the technical stuff when you were on set. Sure. Sure, sure, sure. But also that they represent this sort of like in

the ideological wheel of this, that they represent this sort of like, we tell ourselves stories in order to live thing, right? Right. That like what is their function? Death's coming no matter what. We're not murderers. We're just fulfilling a thing that has already been requested by the universe. and we we ease people into that with stories right we we tell them stories we sing them songs these old folk tales well that's like that the stories they tell are our gothic are mordant you know and and that's why you have that like I think these bookends it's like the first is like them doing the movie version of how they do it and then this is like the the comp not the commentary track but the Q&A afterwards you know it's like it's you have the the two

perspectives of what they're trying to do a hundred percent but there's just just one stop on the carriage and everyone's got to get out here. I fucking love it. And they don't want to. And they don't want to. Ladies first, I need help getting down. Like, these are some good bits. Some good, I don't want to go bits. And I like, saw Rubenek going like, yeah, all right.

Like, let me at them. But sorry, Paul, go ahead. No, no, I just, I, this is something that I just feel like rewatching it. I didn't remember it from the first time as cleanly. And then I was, like, oh, this is, I think, my favorite thing. I agree. Mark Peas? I'm sorry, Joshua Pease wrote a piece for the now defunct birth movie's death on this segment when it came out that's incredibly good about this sort of being what feels like the greatest summation of their worldview.

Forgive me because even though I'm such a fan and a regular listener, a Patreon member, does the dossier get published? No, it's too like the sources J.J. is pulling. It's like commercializing it anyways a little tricky. You know, these are academic things we don't want to clear. What you just said, Griff is a great example. I would, after some of these things, want to then go and read or listen to or whatever. Please do. Yeah, you can get it. I like that.

I like that idea. JJ is such a law-abiding citizen that any time we sort of floated the idea. Are you really? Really? Wow. Have I seen that? Is that the Jamie Fox one? Gerard Butler, yeah.

And it's F. Gary Gray? Yes. Oh, is it? Yeah. I didn't realize that. I haven't watched it. Does that be any good? It was like a hit.

It was, I remember when it came out, people were talking this is the new seven. Yeah. Like, this is like the way it was like, it was like a, you know, it was like that, like, I forget it. Yeah, but it's got a big twist, right? It's like, he's done a scheme that's like he gets put in prison and he comes out and he can do bad things or whatever.

We're going to figure it out tomorrow. We watch Monkey Bone today, which, wow. Which has Gary Gray. I mean, the problem with that monkey bone is just so normal. And normal and regular. I wish they'd loosen up. I'm going to say this tonight on stage. I imagine it's the, we've been doing this show for 15 years.

How did this get made? It's the first time I literally wrote down in my notes. How did this get made? Like, how did it like go past? I don't understand how the script was written. I don't understand how anyone signed on to it. I don't understand any. I was like, like, and this is not like from the 1970s.

No, no. We've seen it. Oh, yeah. Oh, they did it on this show. Oh, yeah. Henry Selleck. Oh, wow. It's also, it's one of the greatest, better, all the years of therapy and analysis and

psychiatric work I've done, rarely has someone nailed me to the wall as hard as Sims when I was talking about how much I loved this movie when it came out as a child. And he was like, it makes perfect sense that the chaos in your brain, how have you have described feeling when you were a child, that monkey bone would feel like a relief. Monkey bone calmed the noise. If only I could be in the underworld. Everyone else is like popping Advil watching that movie. And that my brain was like 17 different like cartoon alarm clocks all doing like routines.

I was like, oh, monkey balls. Monkey about's kind of settling. Monkey balls. Monkey balls is a good one. Monkey bone is a dick. I mean, that represents a penis. JJ, JJ just, he is, has always been like, if I were to publish these, I would go about them a very different way because he respects. I get it.

I think that sometimes it's like it may just be nice to have just the straight up links to something like without the you know like the bigger pieces like the love movies death and stuff like that like drop links in the description yeah we do that as well as the newsletter yeah the newsletter is great yeah able to sort of hand select some of that but but some some of the dossier gets messy and JJ starts editorializing oh that's great I love that he does I like a little JJ aside Yeah, but just a little bit.

Just a little. Now, we should say that this week he did too much and thus he is fire. Oh, wow. I guess like I said to let him go. That's a shame. He's in the cart. He's in the carriage.

Next up. Drop him in the river. How heavy a rock? How heavy a rock is JJ? He is a pretty heavy rock. Here we know, yep. Now, I'll ask you all a question. Yeah.

As you've talked about on, what's the Big Lebowski episode? Yeah, where, you know, John Juturo obviously goes often makes his movie, the Jesus role. Of course. Is there a character in this that you would, like, because I, like, we talk about it. Isn't Buster Scruggs? Yeah. Oh, I want a movie about now rich Tom Waits.

Hell. That is a great. Like, like, like Chester Lampwick in the Simpsons episode with the solid gold car or whatever. Now he's rich. What, how is he different? I love that. And everything has to work out. Every. But it's like, no conflict.

It's him and the, it's him and the, it's him in the. I mean, it's very Beverly Hills Bellies, if you think of it, you know, it's like, but a different era. Beyond all the obvious reasons why the Waits segment is such like Ben Bate, like, you know, old Coot digging. Oh, yeah. Right. Right.

Tom Waits himself. It's a fucking, it's wet, too. Yeah, but it also is a everything works out. It is a guy who seems destined for failure and death. And at the end, he leaves with a bunch of fucking gold. By the way, I'm not. It's what you're always asking movies to do. I will, uh, you know,

Now, I'm not advertising SORA, but I did see a, you could, you know, you could get in this store and just put those jeans in there, too. You could actually make this segment right up your alley. It has to be real. Because I just saw, which I'll show you a post episode, somebody posted Randy Macho Man Savage and Revenge of the Sith. And it is, it is, it is just the whole problem with AI. You're like, that sounds good. And I watch it and I was like, wow for a multitude of reasons. Wait, is he just inserted?

or is he taking the place up? Is he, General Grevis? It's the final scene with, you know, it's with, Mustafa Lava battle? It's like, you, Anakin, you were my brother. Oh, yeah. Well, no, but he's doing, he's doing the lines.

I mean, I'll play a, I'll play a section of you. You can hear a section of it just to hear it. Oh, my God. But it's he's doing, he's doing the lines. I mean, it's so, I mean. I like you're saying he's doing the lines as if it isn't like fucking CGI necroman. Yeah, yeah. What a fucking bummer.

I mean, this is, I mean, what a bummer. this is so interesting to me. What a bummer that sounds awesome. This is another reason you should stay off social media, Jason. There's less ability to manipulate you. That is effective. That is

terrifying. Wait, who's taking the Hayden roll? I think it's just Hayden. It's Hayden. It's like, okay. Oh, that's funny as hell. Yeah, no, I mean, this is what AI is for. I want to see Leon Kennedy from Resident Evil for attend the Metball.

That's all you've ever wanted to do. Anyway, I'm sorry. There's a one time I'm used to. You could redo it. I wanted that to happen. All right. And our fans have always been so normal about our use of AI. I'd be clear.

We hate AI. We hate AI. We reject it. I want to be unequivocal about it. And I, can you send me that level? I hate, let's say.

No, you truly reject. I hate AI as it's used in creative pursuits. But boy, am I down for AI in crunching data for medical research. Oh, yeah. And all manner of other things that it is great at. This is the whole problem.

It's like there's three things we wanted to do. And a tremendous amount of money is being spent on the exact things we don't. In the next 10 years, we're about to get a lot of cures for catastrophic diseases and a tremendous amount of dog shit content. That's the problem. You're going to get a lot of shit posting. I mean, that that 20 second thing is a shit post that it just happened to be in the, what is the company that just said they're going to put out 500 AI podcasts? Yeah. That's called a year rule.

Check Productions. Baby, we're doing it. Enjoy. Enjoy. We want to be very clear. We hate AI. Stay tuned for our slate of AI shows launching 2020. You ever want a podcast? It's just 500 llamas.

We got one of those. And it's AI Marie Barty. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We actually fed her all the way. We just pushed her in to the phone. We bought exclusive rights to her laugh. It'll be replicated onto other podcasts. It's her laugh and Seth Rogan's laugh.

Great lot. Just head to head. It is a shame we didn't have them in the same room. You want to wrap up, David? I do need to wrap up soon, but we should play the box office game before we do Cohen's top 10 sheer. I want to say to Paul's point, Jesus Rolls is to Toro saying, Collins, do you mind if I take this character and run with it? If Tim Blake Nelson said tomorrow, hey, would you let me make a full Buster Scruggs movie? I would not be concerned about that.

Yeah, you know, I think you'd have to figure out how does it sustain? Because it is a Bugs Bunny short. Maybe you can't. Maybe it can't. I'm not saying he should, but I trust him as a writer and director enough that if he said, I want to see if I can do Buster Scruggs on my own, I wouldn't immediately say Red Alert in the way that Tataro announcing I'm making a sex comedy of the Jesus on a road trip was like this is only bad ideas. No, I agree. I feel like there, but this is like a world in which I wish that they would make more shorts and it almost like that Netflix would allow like a Cohn Brothers short.

channel like every you know it's like you know just they make one thing it doesn't have to be big it's like a 15 minute i mean it's unrealistic but i would love to see that kind of collaboration with them our friend the aforementioned cunner atliff has said that he thinks the high points of this are amongst the best stuff that coens have ever done and that he feels like if it had been released as separate shorts that it would sort of stand in greater estimation because some of these are just really pleasant to rewash and really easily revisible and obviously the point is putting all together and the greater conclusion they come to, right, and the thematic connections and echoes. But some of these are like tough hangs. Right. And you're like, you know, fucking meal

ticket's incredible. But you don't like, you're not going to pop that in. You're not inclined to fire it up. I have watched the Buster Scrug segment upwards of 10 times. This is the second time I've ever seen Mealtick. I think that's understandable. Yeah. Right. That makes sense. And even Mortal Remains, which I love, I only love it as the capper to this movie. Doesn't work on its own. You wouldn't watch it on its own. But, boy, I would send someone the Tom Waits one, the Buster Scruggs one as individual. And maybe the Franco one, right. And like.

But we reduced it to a gift. We have the Franco one and the most palatable. I know. I do hear that Netflix is building a theme park and that the carriage ride will be a part of it. By the way, in many respects, the Franco Giff is the chicken. The Franco Giff is the chicken. And thank you for saying that, Paul. And it is true.

Well said. Now, this film came out. Paul won the podcast. He did a good job. He did a good job. Film came out November 9th, 2018. Louis C.K. and I were seated. Obviously, Netflix did not report its box office at all, but it was not number one at the box office.

Number one was an animated film based on a children's classic story, Griffin, that this movie made you feel normal and regular. It's The Peanuts movie? No. I have it. Harold and Purple Cran? Nope. Okay, it's 2018? What month you said?

November, November. And I tazzed out over this one? You didn't like some of the things going on in this one. I've never seen it. I didn't like some of the things. You didn't like the star. You didn't like the voice he was doing. Oh, this is Benedict Cumberbatch has the Grinch.

This is the Illumination, the Grinch movie. I don't like that. I've seen it. I've watched it many, many times. It made about $500 million. Oh, wow. This is a, this is right in the wheelhouse of my kids. Tyler the creator does a song

Your meme one Mr. Grinch Here's what I will say I do, oh yes I do not like the retconning that we like the Ron Howard Grinch They re-releasing it. I don't either. No, the one I like is the fucking

cartoon, yeah. The church out. Yes, yes. But they are re-releasing that in theaters this Christmas. I'm like, no, no, no, no. We didn't. I agree with that.

I mean, that movie was a colossal hit the Ron Howard film. Do you think it's just people went and like, it's Ron Howard, it's Jim Carrey. I think it was a lot. little bit. Like, it's Christmas time. The Grinch is there's a little Stockholm. There is there is a nostalgia for people of a

certain age that that movie aired when they were young and now they're going to show it to their kids. That was the highest grossing film of its year. It was a enormous blockbuster. And they built a section of Park at Universal. They have not taken over. It's still there. Whoville is still there part of Horror Nights. I also

think it's interesting that like Universal was like, we're going to make this fucking animated Grinch because people have complaints about the Jim Carrey one, and maybe we can make a better definitive Grinch movie and replace the stuff in our parks. Like, it felt like that was part of the impetus was, let's have a new representation of Grinch. Because the movie, yeah.

Quietly makes $500 million and Universal has gone back to Jim Carrey Grinch. Like, everything in the parks, the merch, I mean, it's on TV. I would never have been able to pull that. I have no recollection of it even existing. Is that like, I've seen about 17 times. After Boris Karloff did the fucking Chuck Jones animated version, they announced Ben to Cumber and I'm like, make sense, perfect voice for Grinch. I see the first trailer.

He's like, I don't like Christmas. And I'm like, why does he sound like me? I know. Why are Bennett at Cumberbatch and have him sound like me? I love this friend. He should sound like Smog. He should. And say, I'm a mean one, Mr. Smog.

I find presents annoying. Sometimes they bounce, baby. Number two at the box office is a, it was a big hit. A film was a big hit. One of Oscars. One Oscars. It is very bad. Is it Bohemian Rhapsody?

There we go. There we go. My favorite thing about Bohemian Rhapsody was when it won best editing for the Oscar. Well, it did have the most edited. Well, that was quantity while. When people put it together. It was mind-blowing. Because I would not, I did not sit through that.

I did not subject myself to that full film. This is so weird. I just Googled who directed Bohemian and Rhapsody and my iPad caught on fire. I will never forget. The whole nightmare, obviously, that movie's production has already unfurbed. folded in the press. And then they're like, come to the press screening. I go to it.

You know, they're kind of like, here's Bohemian, right? I go to it. And I was like, F, that movie. Like, so glad I don't have to think about this again. And then it won Academy Awards. Can you believe it? A giant hit. Does that, but here's, but here's,

like, here's my question. No, no, here's my question. Because I think about this all the time when I'm listening to you guys talk about it. Does that ever? Because I have really, in my adulthood, lost faith in awards. Lost faith in the Oscars. Lost faith in the Emmys.

This is communicating quality. These are not, these awards do not delineate. What are the best or most interesting or deserving movies whatsoever? Does Bohemian Rhapsody or Green Book or any of these other awards cause you to lose faith? That was a pretty bad year.

Cause you to lose faith in the institution of the Oscar. Sure. I have given, what you call it? My friend gave me a tip many, many years ago to do any, Oscar pool, and it's been very good for me, which is just go by, look at it and go like, who's the biggest name, what title sounds interesting, you'll always win short film, because a majority of choices are people that are just like, oh, yeah, that person's in a show, great.

Like, it's the reason why I think Estanel is cleaned up in the supporting actor category, because it's like, oh, bad bunny was on Estin. Oh, you were like, you know, I bet Tiffany Haddish did a good job. Yeah. That sounds like she would have done that well. Right. And it's like, oh, it's, and not that, not that she's not, but it is a funny, interesting thing that I think it is just people just going down. I think there's a lot of people who watch it.

I think a lot of people who care about it. But I think a majority of people are just going on odd gut choices. There was that year that Ellen Burstyn got a supporting actress nomination for an HBO movie from the Emmys. It is, it is a sub 10 second cameo. And she was just like, clearly they just saw my name on a list and said, she's probably good in that. Don Cheadle got nominated for Best Supporting Actor. Oh, yes. The Captain America.

He's good in Mountain. Winter Soldier. Falcon and walks through a museum and probably on screen for two minutes. He's weirdly on screen longer than he was on set. No, I think the Oscars are in a weird place where they've made such a push to diversify their ranks and go younger and more international, more diverse and weirder, and try to expand the taste of. their voting body because it had become so old and calcified. And what happens now is it feels like there's a pendulum swing every

couple of years where you get a year like this where you're like all dog shit Greenville but best picture. And then you get parasite. And then you get the other way. So it's a weird back and forth. I also think it's reflective of the time. Like this year's going to be interesting because it's like what's

really out there and what's going to be coming up from most normies is a bunch of movies they don't know. It's like the train dreams and Hedda and all that sort of stuff. It's going to be like, no one's going to see that, but the movies that the two, you ham net, like, it's going to be sinners in one battle. And I would argue that one battle, as much as I love it, is not going to be even on most people's radar. Sinners is going to be the only movie this year that is going to make any, lots of people. And or Wicked and Avatar are going

to get in there, but they're going to get in there as a sort of consolation prize. Yeah. You don't really have a chance of winning nomination. Right. Green Book 2. Green Book 2 is stealthily the next chapter. A strong contender. I like it. I mean. I mean, it's fun. Yeah, it's deeper. It's good. It's good. Green Book 2, Hardly Booking.

Number three at the box office. A bit of a forgotten film. It's new this week. It's an action horror film. Action horror. Yes, a period action horror. It's a war horror movie. It's a war.

Not Shadow in the Cloud. Is it Overlord? Overlord. Oh. Julius Avery movie. Yes. I weirdly fell down a rabbit hole. Wikipedia last night

of Julius Avery was announced in 2020 to reboot Van Helsing. Sure. I don't remember how I got there. I was going down a Van Helsing thing. Right. Uh-huh. But so overlord top of line. We did it on how to this get made. Only for that reason. I was going to say we did it last night. Vanherry. Oh, yeah. He since then

has done Samaritan, the Nicholas Cage superhero movie that's kind of forgotten. No, was that Sloan? Yeah, sorry, what I'm talking about? Salon. Yeah, not Cage. And then the Pope's extracist, of course. Oh, yes, which we also did for a podcast. By the way, Samaritan was a direct rip of a movie that I had done, Arch Enemy, that was, that I was like, it was almost shot, the trailer was cut the same way, too. It was very interesting. Manchinello.

Yes, exactly, yeah. No, the thing about Overlord, which I've never seen and heard was like, okay, kind of like fun, silly, goofy, gory stuff is that it was initially going to be another Cloverfield movie. It was going to be World War II Cloverfield, and then the response to Cloverfield paradox was so big. bad that they were like, let's stop calling things Cloverfield. That versus it being like, this helps sell original spec script movies if you tie them into the Cloverfield and use that branding. They were like, fuck, we ruined the

branding. It's over. Yeah. Number four, the box office is a normal Disney family movie. Everyone remembers. Normal. It's not a live action remake. No. But it has that vibe. Sure. Is it Knuckraker in the Four realms? There we go. Wow.

Now, you are one of three credit directors. Right. Lassie Halstrom did two of the realms Joe Johnson did one eye. I did a realm. He did a role. It was my joke back in the day. He picked up a realm as a figure. But that was a true, I think,

classic Disney where they're like, let's do a nutcracker movie. And they're like, okay, great. Any other ideas on casting story? And they're like, oh, just start production. Throw a couple rounds in there. We'll figure it out. I don't know what they're going to have gowns and stuff. Like, it's fine.

Like, it just, because they fired Hallstrom and replaced him with Joe Johnson, I think. Extensive reshoots were overseen by Joe Johnson. Like Morgan Freeman's there. He's got like an iPatch or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen it.

My daughter does love the nutcracker. I watch the McCauley Culkin one. Sure, that one's fun. Yeah, that one's good. Number five at the box office. Oh, one of my favorite movies of 2018. Truly or facet? And I just attended an intimate dinner with its director. Bradley Cooper, is it a star is born? The star is born. Obviously,

a gigantic hit. It's been out for six weeks since made $178 million. Oh, well, did it end up at two? It ended up making I don't know. I mean, I mean, it definitely, yeah, 250, Dean Domestic. Another best song nomination in here.

And if you remember the performance of it. A totally normal performance of it. That was one of those true, like, the Oscars do rock. It's like, this is insane that I'm watching this. And that's, and that is why I feel like the spectacle of the Oscars will still, you'll always get something good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You will get something good. I'm hopeful this year.

Especially in 10 years when they let Will Smith back in the building. That's when you're going to be. guaranteed something good. I just did my hands out. Yeah. Like two big slappers. Two big slappers. I mean, I still, we talked about this on how did this get made.

I love his mea culpa to that in Bad Boys 4, where he does like kind of address, it's like, Martin slaps him. And it's like now we've made peace with the slap. And then that was one of the things I've made. And I think it was because of COVID. Like, I've really made a turn on like, was it that bad? I mean, it was, but it's one of those things where, just me, Paul, he could have killed.

I mean, like, where people got a little too styrical in the other direction of, like, and I was like, but you are not allowed. Right. You know, it's as the Oscars charge to say to start hitting people. I agree. I agree. It is categorically insane. It's definitely not the done thing to when someone is presenting

be like, oh, I think I'm going to come hit you. And I think, I think the difference is, is like, look, we were all in COVID. There's a lot of shit going on. Yeah. Oh, shit. And I do think it just got It was amped up so much

That I think less things to talk about Yes and when I looked at it again Or thought about it again I was like yes What you're saying you should not be charging a stage And slapping anybody in the face It's special you know Right don't do that

But it was viewed as like This man Oh like Like if you were if you were in hearing You'd be like he beat the shit out of this person There was a live murder Yeah It was I saw that at Marie Bardi's

Oscar party. And it was mostly... The party party party? It was a literal party party. And it was mostly like film people, people who work and film people who write about film people, study film. Everyone in there was just like a hardcore movie nerd. And there was an hour and a half of people as if it was like the Zepruder film.

Oh, yeah. Breaking down like, wait, what happened and why? I wasn't even watching it. I mean, I'm like, I'm so out on this stuff. I'm divorced from the Oscars. I really haven't been watching it. And one of my like film guys. text chains blew up. Hey, are you guys watching this? Did you guys? Was that a bit? Do you think that

was a bit? It was all we were debated. Yeah. It felt like there was a collective like hallucination. And until he got up to accept the award, we were like at some point we're going to get some closure. And the second he got up and started crying and said like Richard Williams protect his family, everyone just gassed and went, oh my God, it was real. Like he said the first line and we went, oh my God, it was real. Well, I was, I am friends with, Regina and Will Smith, but when she was, so she was hosting that year. She was, she and Schumer, right, we're like, get us on stage. What the fuck?

Right. And so we were, we, the Black Monday cast was on a text chain all like kind of rooting on and then. Doing great, Regina. Yeah, yeah, I know, it was like, that I remember, I think if it was, if I'm correct and saying, we're like, that's a bit, right? And it was like, no. Like, we did get verification.

Heartcore immediate. That was not a bit. That must have been an astounding text receiver. from someone in the room. It was, because it was like, because the way it was also displayed, I remember, like, sound dropped out. Yeah, it was an weird.

The camera cut suddenly and right. And it was like, and then you got up and there was like that shot where it was like, somebody was talking to Will Smith in the corner. It was. And it was Bradley Cooper. Yeah, of course. And you could only rewatch it on the Australian feed.

Right. That was what was weird. This guy got cranky. This is monumental. That's not a slap. Right. You beat me to it. Number six, just to wrap up, we should do our cones rankings.

We've been podcasted for three hours. Number six, of course, this week. New this week, the very good idea of doing the girl in the spider's web. This, let's do a sequel to Girl with the Dragon Tattoo by adapting the fourth book written not by the guy. And an infinitely valuable Cinematrix play. I scored off of it today. Nobody remembers. No one remembers.

Number seven is nobody's fool. Is that? That's Kevin Hart? No, Tiffany Haddish. Regina, is it? Wait, who is that? Nobody's a fool? The Paul Newman movie?

No, that's the problem. Is it Tika Sumter? Tika Sumter, Tiffany Haddish, and Wuppie Goldberg. Amari Hardwick, and Wiffie Goldberg, and she's got a wig on and she's kind of going like this. Whoopi Goldberg. At the foolishness, I assume. Wuppie Goldberg has a bit in the trailer that is so fucking funny.

This is a Tyler Perry film. But it was Tyler Perry at Paramount where he didn't usually make his films. Right, kind of doing like what looks like a pretty ordinary rom-comy kind of thing. It was sort of him trying to do more of a like normal comedy in a Tiffany Haddish vehicle and not the Tyler Perry thing. I don't know if it viewers into faith-based lessons towards the end. Yeah, because I was trying to remember, like, that was one of those movies where, again, it's still in the top ten, so it's making money, but it also was like not, yeah, it was not,

well, it was just sold as another Tiffany Haddishly. Right. There's a bit where they, I believe Whoopi Goldberg plays their sisters and plays their mother, I think. There's a bit where they go to visit the mom and they're yelling at her. And she starts acting like the phone has dropped out. She can't hear them. That sounds funny.

And then they go, you're not on the phone. We're talking to you through a window. That's funny. That's funny. That sounds funny. It's really good. I just, that's all I've seen.

She's a national treasure. Whoopi rolls. And someone today just posted the famous thing, she said on marriage to some interview. I don't want someone to sleep on my bed. No, it's just, I don't want someone in my house. That's what I think about it all the time. Number eight of the box office is Venom.

He's there. He's been doing great. Number nine is the David Gordon Green Halloween, giant hit. Number 10 is, the hate you give, which I feel like was, they hoped for hit and wasn't really hit the young adult. It's a young adult movie based

on a sort of a hit book. Yes, and that was a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Regina Hall's in that. And I saw it, it's okay. It's very, very serious. It's a shooting, right? Yes. Yes, yes. Very, like, sort of sensitive, serious teens wrestling

with Deep Issues movie. It's not very good. Yeah. It's okay. that is that but Griffin I know you're looking at your phone for this reason we this is not our last episode in this mini series because we're kind of treating the next the Cohen's three is bonuses

split up and did three movies which we will cover oh this is the that was the question I was going to ask but this so you it's not our finale for the co- Will you do them each gets their own McBeth gets its own episode or okay we did them we have been the cam driveway dolls honey don't okay

but we will do our top our Cohen's rankings now Okay, I have done mine as well in the last 10 minutes. Fantastic. I knew you were playing with your phone and I was like, Jason's up to something. Like, feels terrible. I'm looking at this list and it feels wrong, but I, like, any move feels like, how could I? There's no right answer here.

And let me be clear, this is what I'm sort of putting as my ranking of what I consider their best works. Obviously, Hudson Soccer Proxy is my favorite film of theirs. You can do favorites? Well, you do what you want. There's a universe of which I put that in number one. Is there a movie before you do your list that rose high during the re-recording of this or that dropped or is there anything like that, like a sort of canonical fave? I want to say, I mean, but like, it's so arbitrary.

It is a little bit. I feel like Raising Arizona dropped a little and Lobowski went up for me. I had the exact same reaction. But I mean, like, both. But I love them both. Both masterpieces, in my opinion. I have lady killers last. I will say I put tragedy of Macbeth and driveway dolls ahead of lady killers.

Sure. Those are not in my rankings. Yeah, get them off. That's for my master ranking. I hear you. I hear you. For the sake of this series. Lady killers last.

Then intolerable cruelty. Oh, shit. Now, everything past the, and by the way, I think intolerable cruelty is great. Past this point, every movie I'm going to list sounds like it's an insult

to put it this low. And it's truly just an embarrassment of riches. I then have Blood Simple, Scruggs, true grit. You're true grit that low. Okay, keep going. I mean, this is something saying.

Keep going. Raising Arizona. Okay. Miller's Crossing. Oh, brother, where art thou? And so now that was 11th. Right. My 10, man who wasn't there, great movie.

Nine, burn after reading. Eight, Lubowski. Seven, Barton Fink. Six, Hail Caesar. I put Podsucker at five with me trying to be objective. But it's number one in my heart. But then there are four movies that I just think are stone-cold. like just

undeniable masterworks number four no country number three a serious man number two fargo number one inside lewin davis that's where i land that's their best film in my opinion hud sucker is my favorite that's the distinction i want to do mine

yeah you should do all right i have lady killers last then burn after reading sorry then men who wasn't there sorry then buster scrugs then intolerable cruelty all the way up at 14 then Hail Caesar now we're just in movies I love territory man I put Hail Caesar

a lot of higher than you yeah and O Brother at 12 Blood Simple 11 my 10 are 10 10 Hudson 9 raising Arizona

8 Miller's Crossing 7 no country 6 Lew and Davis my 5 are very different from yours 5 Big Lobowski 4 serious man 3 true grit

all the way up there 2 Fargo 1 Barton thing that's me nobody yell at me like our ranking is are quite incredibly different and yet i'm like i don't think you're wrong about that you're not mad of me so mine falls into the truly um these are i cannot separate my true love for some of these from it's allowed yeah so distinction are like millimeter yeah you know especially when we get into that top six or seven lady killers is obviously number one with a bullet for you Number one, intolerable cruelty.

Number two. No, Lady Killer's intolerable cruelty are at the bottom for me. Man who wasn't there. Buster Scruggs, burn after reading. These all could kind of be in any order, but they are all in that lower third. Burn after reading. And then true grit is, they're chunked to me. True grit, hail Caesar, oh brother.

Right. Are like that middle category. And then it gets into blood simples. Louis and Davis, Raising Arizona, Barton Fink, and then, for me, Fargo, a serious man, no country, Lubowski, Miller's Crossing. Miller's Crossing is my number one just because it is baked in. It's their movie that I've seen the most. And I've seen Lobowski a lot.

And I've seen Miller's Crossing more. Owen Burke, our friend Owen Burke, watches Miller's Crossing every year on St. Patrick's day. He told me this years ago, and I've instituted it as well, and it's a blast. That is a great way to do it. It's a great revisit, and I just, it's one of those movies that I know every line of. It is, I know every corner. I love that movie. Even though I know that many of these movies are inarguably better movies, uh, no country especially, Fargo especially, Miller's Crossing just has its hooks in me, as does Lobowski. Lobowski is so baked into, like when I need a, feel-good watch to just disappear into, it is always

Lobowski. You had Fargo at three? I had Fargo at five. Wow. Wow. I have Miller's Crossing is one. Lobowski is two. No country is three. A serious man is four. Because I just think that is dynamite. And Fargo is five. And I mean, like a lot of these I couldn't, if you said to me, reorder those five in a different way, I could happily own it. You know, these are all unimpeachably just masterpieces by my estimation. I agree with that. Yeah. This is too quick for me to do it.

I think that that, but I think I want to take a moment and say that when you ask men's health, what their ranking of the Cohen brothers. And I do appreciate you. Yes. Yes. And I do appreciate you. I've been asking. They haven't gone back to me.

They rate them from one to six abs. Yes. It's an abs scale. You know, the number one for them is, is going to be far. that's men's health right now a great great one i'm gonna but i'm gonna maybe uh show you like where they go a little bit off the rails maybe you know um a vulture put in tolerable cruelty in the top ten yeah uh i think that everybody has to kind of do that um men's health did put burn after reading number six you know some people love burn after reading a lot i really but i have no problems

with burn after reading yeah before serious man that's a little wild that's crazy that's a little The Lens for Trubborn. The J.K. Simmons, David Rashi's scene of that movie is incredible. It absolutely makes the movie for me. I will say also just to, no, like, ranking Cohen Brothers movies

is like the quickest way, at least back when Twitter was somewhat usable, to just get everyone frothing. You would just be kind of like, I think Barton Fink's my favorite Coens. And then you know, one hour later, people are like, what's your dress? I'm going to come kill you. Like, and even though we're all

arguing over all movies that we all love, basically. I just got tracking notice from anthrax.com. I love it. So I remember seeing Barton Fink in the theater and being like, what the fuck is going on? I am jealous. This is incredible, I think. Like, I just, like the John Goodman performance, because at the time, I hadn't seen him do anything like this. Dan Carter.

He was, it was unbelievable. Yeah. You know, what a, I loved that movie. Yeah. No, it's like, what order do I put five star masterpiece? exactly i'm going to make a shocking admission never saw barton think oh well you know what paul now you have

the best kind of homework yes oh that that is that is i don't know what it is i've seen every single cohen brothers movie you have such a good one okay great night out and as someone paul who works in hollywood and i feel like knows a lot about how it works and has a lot of opinions

on how it should work barton fink and i'm surprised just as a wallace beery wrestling family you haven't watched but it was it was one of those that I felt like, oh, you know what? I do this sometimes. I'm like, I'll wait until I can see it properly. Yeah, I get that.

Right. I didn't see the Godfather movies until I saw them at film forum in New York. So as an adult, because I wanted to wait until I could see it in a theater. I knew it would matter. Yeah. I watch it on my Apple Watch. That's so cool. You want to see Barton thinking and you hear really bad feedback from Bart Simpson and his friends.

And they just completely discouraged you from going. And Naked Lunch is why you've never seen Naked Lunch either. Same thing. Bart really shit on that one. It's also great to see, like, I have a painting of Hudsucker proxy in my house. I love it. I love it so much. And it was one of those movies that I felt like when I saw it, it, it, I'm liking it made me, like, because everyone would be like, oh, raising Arizona, raising everyone, raising Arizona. It's like, and you felt like, oh, there's no, but I like nobody's arguing for this one.

And I love that. See, I was part of the, because I'm like a full step older than you guys. Right. Hudsucker, to me, felt like a betrayal. That was the year rubbing your hands. You can't wait. The Cohen's made a big movie. And then you're like, what the fuck was that?

And before the lady killers and tolerated cruelty back to back, it was like, that was the consensus. It was a falter. It felt like a misstep. Oh, yeah, many times, many times. And I think it's wonderful. But in that moment, I can totally understand. I was like, what the fuck, guys? Can I say this as a closing statement?

Because we recorded our episode and then we, Ben, Marie and I went out to L.A. and introduced a screening with the American Cinema Attack. Did this intro and I saw it again Project on 35. Anytime I see it screening, I see it, right? But these comic movies, as we talk about, every time you watch them, I get different stuff out of them. They go up and down in my rankings at levels

of greatness, right? But certain elements jump out to me more. I have different readings. Maybe I get certain plot details wrong because I'm paying attention to one thing. But watching Hudsucker on the big screen that time, like something clicked in it for me that

I had never really thought about before, and especially knowing that it was a script they wrote early with Ramey that they couldn't get made and with all their clout, they're like, we get to do this, is I think that movie is about, like, how to become successful without becoming an asshole. Right, right, right, right. You can't let go of the, yeah, absolutely. And these guys who people often mischaracterize as being very judgmental of their characters and condescending, I'm like, the way they treat Norville in the section of the movie where

he becomes full of his own shit and high on his own supply is like the most disdain they have shown for any character, like even more so in a way than like Anton Sugar, right? Where they're like, this is the absolute cautionary tale of we just like making hula hoops and we want everyone to enjoy hula hoops. And how do we do that and ascend to levels of success without becoming this guy and needing to like fall off the side of a building and reclaim our humanity? And I think you like step back and you look and you're like, these guys, had this fucking career working together for 30 plus years made like basically 20 masterpieces

and just like stayed true themselves the entire fucking time and even like say whatever you want about lady killers that is no very much we have not movie we have never done a career as nothing's like shot here we here we are at the end of your series yes pretty much at the end of your series talking about a movie that while we might quibble with you know it might be a little uneven segment to segment, vignette to vignette. Whatever. There was still so much in this that was wonderful. We could have talked about it for another four hours.

Have you ever done a series that is, because I feel like by the end of most series, you guys are cooked because now you're stuck with the dregs. And this was as long a series as we've done, basically? Pretty much. I mean, the solos are a little closer to be in dregs for us. Yeah, right. Get ready for those three episodes where we are beginning to grasp. That's the end.

But that's a different story. It is. You could have not done those or done those on the Patreon as all three of the, or all four of the, or three of those in one episode. Like, they are not the same. Maybe these are good ideas that we should have listened to. Do you feel like in those three films or do you have any research and not to tease this for the audience that they give each other notes on their solo films? No, I don't think so. I've heard nothing to that.

That's interesting to me to be like to have such a close, because I'm also fascinated with the facties too. And it's like, you're big, oh, I don't know. Dude, the Safdi's, it's having seen both those movies, it's the same thing as what the Coens are you're like, I see what each was bringing to the tape. Right. And I think both of the movies they made a loader are really good. And I actually like them more than the- Balance.

But you're just like, right, this energy is here and this energy is over here. And they used to be together and now we're watching them. Do we know anything about the movie the Coens are working on together again? Nothing except that they're working on something. Just that they are. And that it's maybe a horror adjacent. heard that, but who knows? Knowing them that also might be a loose starting point

and it's turned into something else. It's exciting to consider. Oh, yeah. It's exciting another movie, but if this is their last movie, which is not impossible. It's impossible. I don't mind it as a last movie. Yeah. I don't either. I think it's a good final film. I hope we are wrong about it. They told a bunch of funny short stories. That's all their whole

filmography is funny little vignettes. I mean, they're movies, but I feel like that's what it's kind of encapsulates everything about them. I love it as what what I mean sorry we made you I have to go no let's wrap it we have to we literally have to do a show yeah I'll also say I saw I'm gonna pee you guys I saw Ethan Cohen on the street yesterday yesterday right before recording this our final record he looked so fucking cool oh yeah because I think of him as being like the wormyer little one he was wearing sunglasses leather jacket cock at the walk where I had like five in the zone easy but he looked cool yeah Yeah, just walking around with the fucking flat on your district. I love that. Yeah, Nomad. Looked rat as hell.

Thank you guys for being here. Oh, what a pleasure. What a pleasure. Glad we made it work. It was, I knew you guys had some New York shows on the books. We were going to do this episode guest list. And I threw out to Sims, is it crazy if we see if they're free? And knowing very often you guys are so busy, impossible to block out six hours to give an episode its proper space.

Thrilled to have been able to be included in this, what is, I think, in arguably the best. series you guys have done, both in terms of films and episodes. I think this is amazing. Yeah, really truly fun. And it, like, I love this too because it's a, it's a chance to revisit. Yeah, the rewatches have been great. It's really great. There's no

better rewatch assignment than throwing all these movies out. There's no real. You guys have to do some dog shit next time. Yeah, yeah. You're doing dog shit next time. Is there anything specific? You guys want to plug? How did this get made? Yeah. You know, podcast. Still going strong, baby. Absolutely. Year 15 or 16 now.

I can't remember. I remember listening to that burlesque episode. That was one of the first one. That was the first one. Like December. When is old dogs in the first five? It's in the early ones. It's a, it's the pilot that we never aired.

And then we did do it. Okay. That's like later. But burlesk just at my old job, what was it, oh nine? Yeah. So we did this December will be 15 years. I'll, my rocks. So that's, yeah.

Congrats on the I heart award. Oh, decade and a half. Like, you know, look, this is, you know. We went out to the Eyehart Award. Awards. In Austin, Texas, we're all dressed up. We think they're about to present our category. It basically happens in a montage in between awards. They go, like, what was it? It was like Jameson asked you to raise a glass to podcast. Award for Best AdWre goes to Conan Brown, Award for Best Film TV Podcasts. How did this get made? And we're just like, oh, they didn't even present it. Oh, my God. And I assume, oh, they didn't present it because they asked you guys and you weren't going to show up. And I text you guys, congrats. And you said, on what? And we said, you just won. And you said, one what? And I was like, Bruce. eye heart and you were like, for what category? No awareness whatsoever. None. None.

Zero awareness. Now, I was at the first ever Astro podcast awards, and we can talk about that later. I want to thank producer Ben for helping me with the I've Got a Bone segment, and thanks to Zach Cherry for letting me do it. And

maybe thank me for the He-Man sunglasses as well. And thanks to Griff for the sunglasses, even though he didn't know he was doing that for the bit. What a blast. And thanks to Emma Erdbrick for helping us with the tune.

Totally. Totally. And guys, by the way, just listen to those dough boys. Those stupid fucking dough boys. They need the ball. They need the ball. Action boys.

All the ball boys. Pod boys. Yeah. Hoppy boys. No. Jerky boys. Did you say, I said sloppy boys.

But also listen to the jerky boys as well. Bring a visit. You know what? I'm sure it's aged beautifully. Next week is Tragedy Macbeth. Next week is the tragedy of my friend, Dana Schwartz. Returning to the show for another witch film.

That's right. We got to plug holes. But not plug, but you know. Holes. Dig them. But also the movie. But when you say plug holes,

it sounds like you're telling people to fill them in. No, be clear in your language. Create them. Right. So you don't like one of those senators who like fills potholes or whatever.

You're like, I'm not voting for that guy. No, you got a Joe Dirt philosophy of life's a hole dig it? Okay. We are done. I'm sure this is ranking in our top five length. At this point, who knows? No, there was episodes of just this series that were very long. And Leslie, of course, and Leslie Headland is never, never, the only person capable of outdoing that is Alex Ross Perry. Yeah. Great job in pavements, by the way. Oh, thank you. That was fun to do. What if I promised to make the ad reads really long on this?

Okay. No, but no, but we don't. We already did the big trick of the. Right. The jose. I'm not trying to make I'm not trying to make waves here Arp was so angry when he discovered that Did he was he? He texted us when the episode dropped him was like I guess I need to like concede the belt and then a week later was like there's 40 minutes of silence

These fucking Oh it's so good Thank you for being here So much fun thank you for having Excite to see you guys talk about monkey bone today Oh please this isn't great And as always Smell you later fart heads

There we go I mean, I introed us. I might as well outro us. Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is A.J. McKin. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKean and Alan Smithy.

Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery and the great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell, artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to Blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blankcheck special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank CheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on

Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.