Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Dark Knight Rises

Episode Date: August 13, 2017

Griffin and David complete Nolan’s Batman Trilogy with a discussion of 2012’s The Dark Knight Rises. But is it true the director’s brother and frequent collaborator, Jonathan Nolan, presented Christopher with a 400 page script? Were there any other rumors not about Killer Croc? Have we started the fire? Together they examine the different Catwoman performances, Nolan’s Howard Hughes script getting Scor-cheesed, the squints of Joseph Gordon-Levitt, the Mooch and agree that crime should stay illegal.

I learned here that there can be no true despair without hope. I learned here that there can be no true despair without hope. So as I terrorize Gotham, I will feed its people hope to poison their souls. I will let them believe they can survive so that you can watch them clamoring over each other to stay in the sun. You can watch me torture an entire city, and when you have truly understood the depth of your failure, we will fulfill Ra's al Ghul's destiny. We will destroy Gotham. And then when it is done and Gotham is ashes,

then you have my permission to podcast. Good job. Did you enjoy that? I had a really great time. You were like, your chin's tucked into your neck. I was going full Bambi. Hello, everybody. My name's Griffin Namath. I am David Sims.

This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. We are hashtag the two friends. Yes. We're the only two friends who host a podcast together. It's a competitive advantage. Been working for us so far. And will continue working for us forever. Friendship will never go out of style.

Friendship forever. Friendship forever. forever friendship is magic this podcast is about filmographies directors who had massive success early on in their career and forgot to turn off

their cell phones before recording an episode and then were issued a series of blank checks to make whatever they wanted yep in Hollywood at least for a period of time

right this guy his checks have not run out no sometimes those checks clear sure sometimes they bounce baby yep and uh this is a main series on the films chris for nolan it's called the pod night casts and we've gotten to title podcast the title film the titular episode his best known and best loved film, right? The one everyone agrees on. The crown jewel in his tiara. It is called The Dark Knight Rises. It is the third film in the Bartman trilogy.

It's so true. It is true. You can't argue that. Bartman is here. The dark Bartman. Look, I know it often, these become partisan issues. Sure. But can we reach across the aisle and agree that this is the third film in the Bartman trilogy?

Can we just for once? Finally the discord in our nation can halt. Yes. Let's all just agree that this is the third film in the Bartman trilogy. Yeah. Ricky T. Jokes himself is in the rear view. Enter Michael K. Bane. Michael K. Bane's here. I said in the Inception episode his name was

Michael J. Bane. This is the corrections department. His name is Michael K. Bane. So you listened back to check it out? Right. John C. Scarecrow. Who's back too? John C. Scarecrow's back. He's been appointed a magistrate.

He's a judge of Gotham. Yeah, it's nice. There's a big gap. The Duck Knight takes place very shortly after Bartman begins. That's right. And this one takes place, is it seven years later? I think. A gentleman seven.

A gentleman seven years on. And in that time, John C. Scarecrow goes to law school, which is kind of nice. It's kind of an inspiring story. But he made a very strange choice to have a hammer be his gavel. It's just using a hammer. Oh, he got to throw a little flavor on it. That's his, like, flair?

Yes. He's like, all right, all right. Thank you for teaching me how to be a judge. Okay, you stack all the desks on top of themselves. Yeah. And then you use a gavel. Like a hammer. Not unique enough.

Yep. With us, as always is Producer Bane himself. Wait a second. Is that it? I've thrown it out before. Maybe you didn't notice. That's it.

I'm sorry. I don't care about the other ones. I've never loved the other ones. Is there another one you like? We're getting close to the end of Nolan. Hazal Gul, Mbento, and Producer Bane

I think are the best. I think Producer Bane is way better than Nolan. Haz Al Ghul, Mbento, and Producer Bane, I think, are the best. I think Producer Bane is way better than the other two. I like Producer Bane a lot. Produer Bane? Keep going. The Bane-ducer? Yeah. Mr. Haz Al Ghulative?

Sure, sure. The Haz Al Ghul? Okay. So he's the fart master. He's the fart master. The fart detective. He's the meat lover. Right. He's the fart master. He's the fart master. The fart detective. He's the meat lover. Right.

He's the fuck master. He's the fuck master. I am so, so sorry about that. Let's keep going. That's okay. He's the peeper. He's the poet laureate. He's the finest film critic.

He's not Professor Crispy. If you see him in the streets, please wish him a hearty hello, fennel. Yes, please. He's Dirt Bike Benny. He's Soaking Wet Benny. He is graduated. He is please. He's Dirt Bike Benny. He's Soaking Wet Benny. He is graduated. He is graduated. He has graduated.

Just wrap it up. Much like John C. Scarecrow, in the seven years in between, he has graduated to certain titles over the course of different miniseries, such as Producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo Ben,

Ben Night Shyamalan, Ben Say Benny Thing, Ailey Bens with a dollar sign, and Warhut. And perhaps, you know, here on out he will be producer Bane we shall see

I think so I'm gonna need a a really compelling pitch to drop producer Bane okay this is a call to arms make your pitches that's something you can

happy with it rises he's having fun over there he's having a great time I come into the studio and Ben's just he's just doing his Bane. Benny, oh, he has fun.

We send him out in the yard. He just runs around doing his Bane for hours. He keeps himself busy. Oh, boy. So, yeah. So, it's a 2012 film. Yeah. Two years after Inception, which is pretty impressive, actually.

Yeah. Considering the scale of this movie and the scale of Inception. Yeah. I would argue I have an idea of how how what was sacrificed in that time crunch oh really you have an idea of that interesting crazy because it's three years between pam and again to the dark night which is significant although he did make a movie in between yeah sure um uh and uh yeah and it's a 230 million dollar budget big movie i mean you're gonna write that check right yeah i mean and i'm sure mr nolan was paid handsomely to make a movie he was less enthusiastic about that in interviews he said like for a long time i wasn't even sure

i would make this movie and I was very afraid that I would get bored during the making of this movie. Which is I think a way of saying I got bored during the making of this movie. He said in a lot of interviews that his big thing was he knew he had this massive check this massive opportunity and he wanted to try to make

a movie in terms of size that didn't get made anymore. So there was a lot of like, let's have more extras than people have ever had before. Sure. Let's take over more cities with a larger scope. Let's do much more impressive set pieces that are real. Right.

And thought through stunts, you know, all this crazy stuff. The scope of this movie is pretty incredible just in terms of what is visually captured, like what has been photographed. Right. And then, you know. But then also let's make, rather than a competition between a hero and a villain or whatever, like let's make it about like the soul of a city or like the city itself is at stake.

That's definitely his concept. And my argument has been Gotham City. Which I also think would be, I mean, the whole like. It would be an okay title for the last one too. Yes. One of the most baller moves in history I just remember being with friends on the computer

because that's what I would do. I'd be hanging out with friends and then I'd just go to a computer and refresh movie blogs. You sound like a cool dude. Real Fonda guy. Real Fonda guy? I was a real Henry Fonda guy. You were on all those Fonda blogs? I'll tell you. I'm Fonda guy. Real Fonda guy? I was a real Henry Fonda guy. You were on all those Fonda blogs? Yeah.

I'll tell you, I'm Fonda Bridget. But I was there refreshing, and then I went, holy shit. And they went, what? And I turned around and I said, guess what the fucking title of the Batman Begins sequel is? And everyone was like, Batman Continues. Was it like Batman v. Joker? And I just was holding a hot hand. Because it like Batman v. Joker? It was like, and I just was like holding like a hot hand

because I knew I was going to blow their minds. This is the worst story anyone's ever told. The Dark Knight. Everyone was like, whoa! I blew out the mic there.

Yes, he did. I can see it. Yeah. Uh-huh. But just the notion that Nolan was so confident he was like, Batman,

not in the title. Sure. You know? And it also in the title. Sure. You know? And it also gave the movie this power. It's like, this is like a fucking standalone thing. Like, this movie kind of works on its own thing. Sure.

And this trilogy that he's created is much more concerned with Gotham City. Sure. You know? It is. Than other Batman stories are. I agree. Certainly cinematically. Certainly cinematically. It really is Batman fighting to try to save Gotham City.

And from the inception... Oh, boy. From... Of this trilogy, one of Nolan's big ideas was that, like, this is a guy, this version of Bruce Wayne is using Batman as means to an end. Who are your guys?

Batman. Who are your guys? Who are your guys? Who are your guys? I remember seeing Damon Wayans at the improv. He said, tonight I'm just gonna do a jazz set. I will just riff.

I used to roll with Sam Kinison and those guys, Carl LeBove, that was some dark shit. Lock the gates. Pal, I just shit my pants. So, get ready for another hour and a half or so of this. Yeah, at least. P.S. This is a two-hour, 35-minute movie. 44 with credits. No, I'm sorry.

Two-hour, 45-minute movie. Yeah, right. But, you know, there's this thing where, like, this version of Bruce Wayne isn't like a career Batman. He's like, I got a goal in mind. If I can level out the balance of Gotham City, I don't need to be batman right i because of course batman as a comic book character he can't retire because it's infinite he's the

star of a comic book that runs so it's sort of like right he's just part of the firmament of gotham right and and burton's batman doesn't know how to exist without being batman uh yes he's barely a person being batman right right being Batman. Right, right, right. Whereas this movie, The Dark Knight Rises, posits that Batman's work was sort of done after The Dark Knight,

at least in his head. Although, you know, but that turns out not to be true. Sure. Which is weird. But Nolan has said that he,

from the moment that he pitched Batman Begins and started really working on the idea of what his version of Batman was going to be he knew what the final shot of his story was going to be and that is the final shot of this film. Which is what Robin rising

Yeah someone knew taking over the mantle. Sure. The fact that Bruce would be able to walk away from it. Here's my complaint just before I get into the context that we'd love to be a connoisseur of. Sure. Dark Knight ends with Joker saying, I think we're destined to do this forever.

Richard, Richard, uh, uh, trouble. What was the T stand for? T stands for trouble. She,

Richard Trouble Joker. Yeah. Um, been like that. Uh, and Batman, like, taking the blame for Dent's death and riding into, and he blame for dense death and riding and he's like

this you know dark night he's our dark night yada yada yada uh doesn't and then like this movie's open seven years later it's like well ever since batman led to the arrest of like a thousand mobsters gotham's been fine like that's never been the idea of Batman, that he just needed to get rid of the mob. Agreed. He's not a mob warrior. Agreed. I think this movie does a lot wrong. But I'll say this.

No, but that's the premise that's the problem, I think. I think this movie starts at the wrong point. I think it ends in the right place. Sure. Yeah. Carry on. Finish your point. I think this movie starts in the wrong way and never really

finds its footing because of that I think that that concept right the start of the movie is a problem the action they decide

to keep off screen is troublesome and the stuff that has happened and the stuff that hasn't happened is confusing I could see this

start if it really had been like seven years since he'd made a Batman movie. Like if Nolan had just gone off and made other stuff. And then finally Warner Brothers was like, you know, we're going to shell out. You and Bale, we want you back.

Please make another Batman movie. Which I think he maybe needed to do. I think he maybe needed to use the cache of Inception to have another blank check project. And go, I will promise you, let's put it in a contract. I'll make fucking Gotham City. Right, right, right. After this. Yeah, yeah, no, I promise you. Let's put it in a contract. I'll make fucking Gotham City. Right, right, right. After this. Yeah, yeah, no, I get you.

And have some time away so that it really kind of meant something. Right. Because even the Marvel movies are usually, there's usually three years between sequels.

Yes. Like, they don't, two years between sequels is about as tight as you can make it. And for movies like this. This is four years. I'm sorry, but this is just

two years after Inception. Two years after. I'm so, I this is just two years after Inception. I'm so... Ignore me. Ignore me. Sorry. But he needed to take more time away, I think. He needed to figure out what he needed to say. Which I think...

Like, I watched this movie... Not to jump to the end of our discussion, right? But, like, I saw this movie opening night at midnight, as I think a lot of us did, right? I did not, but I saw it opening weekend. Sure. Yes. It was crazy anticipation.

And I sat there the whole time and enjoyed it. Me too, basically. I can tell you. There were speed bumps, but I have speed bumps with Dark Knight 2. I don't think that's a perfect movie. I think that's a movie that ends up being greater than the sum of its parts. But I was watching it and was generally pretty satisfied with it and at the end of it I was

like, yeah. And then I walked out and I ran to someone I knew and he was like, that was kind of shaky right? And I was like, no, what are you talking about? I like that. And then I went to sleep and I woke up and was like, I don't think I like that movie. Sure. So it was that fast for you? Yeah, it was weird. It was like the second i started

really thinking about it it started unraveling in my mind and i have not watched it since then and it has only diminished with every day in my mind uh okay okay and i re-watched it uh and i was like maybe i like this more than i remembered uh-huh liking it uh-huh and then i similarly kind of started struggling the more it went on. I think it's a little better than its reputation suggests. I don't think it's an outright disaster. Which I think it's easy to write

off that way. I think that's largely a product of how insane the expectations were. I think it has the same problems that a lot of Nolan movies have, but it doesn't have the same strengths that a lot of Nolan movies have, but it doesn't have the same strengths that a lot of Nolan movies have that usually allow you to gloss over those problems. But it's an interesting movie.

I just walk away from it going like, I don't know what it's actually saying. I don't think he ever decided what he ultimately was trying to say with this movie. We'll get into it. But yeah, I remember I saw it opening weekend, and I got to the theater and I sat down

and immediately realized that a child had like totally peed all over the seat like you know at the previous screening

or whatever because it's a fucking basically with ads I mean that's a three plus hour sitting experience. Oh, like three and a half.

Exactly. For a big movie like that, they jam as many trailers as they can. And also you have to get there early. They play a Pixar short. There was a newsreel. And so I just imagine some tiny child had been given a bucket of soda. Right. I was trying to hold it in because I wanted to see the Bartman.

So, I mean, there was not much damage done to me like it was obviously like it hit time had passed you know it wasn't fresh but I was still like oh my god

and that for some reason is seared in my memory of my viewing experience yeah that's interesting and it was also of course the shooting had happened you didn't have it if you saw it midnight

it happened right yeah exactly like you weren't but that was fresh in my mind it was hard to not be because it was it had just happened yes and obviously i was desperate to see the movie i was very excited to see the movie but it definitely put everything on edge it made everything feel a little grim yeah it made uh the film's violence you know just a slightly harder to take. Not like it's an excessively violent movie or anything, but still just, it is a grim movie.

But I think it cast a pallor on that movie. The movie is so inextricably tied to that incident now. And it makes the movie's flaws feel even more jarring because the whole Enterprise feels more flippant when it's like right well that's the

thing and it's not the movie's fault at all at all right yeah you know but it's just like for this bullshit you know which it isn't for this of course it's like but but but I do

think there is like you know there was a shooting a train wreck a couple summers ago right vaguely remember that yeah right but it wasn't the same thing but that just kind of felt disconnected somehow sure yeah no it was because yeah it shooting a train wreck a couple summers ago. Right. Vaguely remember that. Yeah. Right. But it wasn't the same thing,

but that just kind of felt disconnected somehow. Yeah. No, it was because, yeah, it was because of the movie. And because the guy was like, I'm the Joker, you know,

like there was some tie. There was that whole element, but also it was like, you know, people like that want to make a statement. And so you attack, you know, a place of meaning.

And it was like, this is the most anticipated movie. That's the other thing. We were all, we were all there there to see this movie it wasn't like we were seeing the movies like we were just going to the movies that weekend it was like we were all there for this movie we've been waiting for four years the dark knight was awesome yeah christopher you know inception was you know like we're excited to see this right this is the it was the movie of the summer right yes yes well uh aven, Avengers comes out that Avengers comes out that summer and sort of set the new narrative. But certainly this was the movie.

Everyone was like, this will be the biggest movie of 2012, which it wasn't. It still ended up being like at the time, I think the sixth highest person film ever. It was a huge movie and it made, but it was somehow viewed as a disappointment because kind of, yeah,

but it made more money than The Dark Knight worldwide. But Avengers was so big. It came earlier, and then this had this shade cast over by the tragedy. And let's move on, because again, it's not like the movie's fault or exactly. It's not the movie's fault, but it was interesting to watch it now with years away from it and being able to just kind of watch it as a movie. I saw it just as a movie. Then in my mind, it was always tied to this incident. And now enough time has passed, I was able to just kind of watch it as a movie. I saw it just as a movie, then in my mind it was always tied to this incident and now enough time

has passed I was able to just watch it. So I saw it in theaters, I have watched it again, and then as I told Griffin as we were setting up, I watch the opening of the movie all the time on YouTube. The IMAX tease, basically. The plane sequence. So that comes out before Mission

Possible... Yes, it does. It comes out before Mission Impossible no yes it does is it it comes out before Ghost Protocol that's so early that's six months previous yeah

wow but they did the same thing with I Am Legend was it December release and then I don't remember yeah you got me

yeah but yes sure the Dark Knight prologue was before I Am Legend and then Ghost Protocol which was not even a Warner Brothers film but was just the biggest IMAX movie. It was the IMAX movie.

Right. And I remember hyping up a bunch of my friends to go see Ghost Protocol, which I was really excited about, but using, you get to see Dark Knight Rises as a selling point. Yeah. And then we sat there in the theater, and no one could understand what bane was saying right bane's uh voice was so weirdly mixed and low and garbled and nolan came out and defended it and was like you know in real life you don't hear everything everyone's saying and sure which has been his defense of every movie since right yeah yeah he makes movies with a lot of cacophonous sounds so the dialogue wouldn't be very clear. Right. But then they were like, okay, but dude, a little fucking too much.

And everything was redubbed. Everything was redubbed. Top to bottom. Except for one line. Which one? Crashing this plane. Oh, really? That is the same.

If you watch them side by side, that's the one they didn't change. And it does sound a little deeper, even in the redubbed version. But throughout the movie, not telling tales out of school. I mean like with Dunkirk

it's like yeah well the dialogue is actually mostly incidental. I get it. But Bane is saying a lot of things. He's delivering a lot of information.

Yeah. You gotta hear him. Right. So they both re-recorded it and re-mixed it for sound clarity and also asked Hardy to enunciate

a little more. Yeah probably. He clarified his voice. His voice is even weirder in the IMAX prologue than the original version. Sure. I actually like it. I think it's almost weirder when you can hear him better

just because he's so sing-songy and strange and oddly pitched. I agree. It is such a crazy choice. Right. And I am so glad that he was empowered to make that choice. Especially because everyone's like, oh, fuck. How do you top the Joker especially because everyone's like oh now how do you top the joker no everyone's like how do you top jeep swanson in batman and robin who just says the thing he's just been told to do where it's like bane smash that wall and

he's like smash wall bane they made bane into like the hulk yeah like a really shitty hulk like the worst hulk right a very really shitty Hulk. Like the worst Hulk. Right. A very embarrassing Hulk. Right. But there was such rabid speculation about who was going to be

the villain in the third one. Well, that's what I wanted to say. Connoisseurs of Contact? We are Connoisseurs of Contact. Okay, so. Oh, wait. You guys are? Yeah.

Oh, the two friends? Yeah, the two friends. One connoisseur, two connoisseurs. We're C's of C. Connoisseur one, connoisseur two. Got it, got it. Okay. Enchilada one, enchilada two.

Yeah, we're like thing one, thing two or enchilada one and two. Yes, there you go. I wanted to clarify about the Connoisseurs 1 Connoisseur 2 got it got it okay enchilada 1 enchilada 2 yeah we're like thing 1 thing 2 or enchilada 1 and 2 yes there you go I wanted to clarify about the connoisseurs of context go it is us if you've heard the rumors

we are them the connoisseurs of context the craziest thing is that Jeep Swanson died like days after Batman and Robin came out

I vaguely remember that it's so weird the poor guy you gotta his name's Jeep Swanson yeah I mean his real name was Robert right

he was a wrestler he was a wrestler and I think that was his stage name. So, apparently, after The Dark Knight, Nolan did write some sort of a story outline for a future movie, and he gave it to Warner Brothers. He goes off to make Inception, and it sort of goes dormant, right?

Yep. But I feel like we and everyone else was like, no, he'll make a third one. They'll make it. You can't not. It's the same way Joss Whedon made a second Avengers where like,

it just becomes, or how Patty Jenkins will make Wonder Woman 2. It just becomes academic. Like we get that they have to figure out the details, but like,

when you have a hit out of the box like that, you gotta get the guy back. Right. And I think, you know, Patty Jenkins will have an easier time than either of those two guys did because of the box like that, you gotta get the guy back. Right. And I think, you know, Patty Jenkins will have an easier time

than either of those two guys did because of the nature of the film. Oh, you mean like with the next movie? Like making the next movie? With Wonder Woman. Right, yeah.

You know, I think there are less story challenges for her going into making another Wonder Woman adventure, especially because of how they've designed it

where we have these, her participation in the modern day Justice League stuff and you just get to fill in the gaps in between the time zones. Right. I think the problem with Avengers Age of Ultron which I know you defend I think is

okay. I think it's okay. I think it's kind of good. Let's just stick up for that movie. I know you like it. I kind of get excited about it. I think it's okay. I like parts of it a lot. I think there are interesting things. But Marvel's fucking with him and they want certain things to tie into the next things. I think it's kind of similar quality to this movie, but its problems are the exact opposite. In that he had a very clear idea of what story he wanted to tell, and Marvel made him throw a bunch of other stuff in there.

I think in this movie, he didn't know what he wanted to say, so he threw a bunch of stuff. And the stuff is kind of interesting all separately, but it doesn't amount to anything. I think in this movie he didn't know what he wanted to say so he threw a bunch of stuff and the stuff is kind of interesting all separately but it doesn't amount to anything. I agree. But Avengers 2 the problem is

the whole interesting thing about Avengers is watching them figure out how to be a team together and you can't have them do that twice. You can't have them

do it twice so instead he decides to make this movie about robots arguing with each other over whether humans are worth saving. Right.

And then Marvel's like hey can you throw my dead wife in there? Marvel's like, we need to set up. Right, exactly. But, I mean, you see Captain America Civil War, and you're like, oh, that's the movie Marvel wanted, which is this fun, almost plotless movie that's just a lot of different stuff happens, and it's all a nice tease for the next thing.

Right. And Whedon needs to have some sort of central idea to be driving what he's going to say. As a writer a writer that's his civil war is a real comic book movie in that it feels like a mainstream marvel comic book from right now right they're basically thinking a year ahead yeah they have a hook which is like blah versus blah that they know will sell tickets slash issues for for good and bad like we watched that movie we saw it together. We had a fun time while watching it. I'm never compelled to watch it again. It's a bad one to rewatch.

I am. Because I mean, I rewatched the Spider-Man scene a lot because I think that's the most successful part. Right. But now I can just watch Spider-Man Homecoming. Sure. Yeah.

I still think that seems the best distillation of Spider-Man as a character. But I watched the airplane hangar fight, which I remember being so excited by watching. It just doesn't really mean anything anymore. No, it's just a lot of stuff bouncing around. Okay, so in February 2010, Warner Brothers announced

Nolan has cracked, quote unquote, the story. Okay. So he is giving us a new Dark Knight movie. Yeah. Then it's announced David Goyer and Jonathan Nolan will write the screenplay. Interesting. Then it's announced David Goyer is Jonathan Nolan will write the screenplay. Interesting. Then it's announced David Goyer is leaving to go write Man of Steel.

Okay. So Chris and John are going to write it. Which he and Nolan kind of pitched off of their story meetings for Dark Knight Rises. Oh, they pitched Man of Steel. In their story meetings for Dark Knight Rises where they're trying to crack it and they were distracted and procrastinating. They were like, what would a Superman movie be? How would we approach that? Came up with this Cronovan idea. Brought it to Warnerinating. They were like, what would a Superman movie be? Like, how would we

approach that? Came up with this Cronovan idea, brought it to Warner Brothers, they set it up. Chris Nolan said that Jonathan Nolan presented him with a 400-page

script. Sounds about right. Quite long. That essentially, from my, because this is the script that is the most based on the Batman comics of my

youth, because it's the first half is Nightfall is Bane breaking his back and it's taking over and then the second half is No Man's Land which was like this comic after a big earthquake in Gotham and Gotham is like cut off and there's people you know crime is

running rampant that has nothing to do with Bane but he sort of puts Bane into it which is all wrong in my opinion. Bane is also just sort of puts Bane into it which is all wrong in my opinion Bane is also just inherently a weird choice for him to pick

I understand the motivation he wanted a big physical villain Batman hasn't had a guy he could really fight in these movies and my guess is he right

and my guess is he also was intrigued by Tom Hardy who had done such a great job in Inception and was probably thinking like ooh this guy could be a good Bane

or you know and I think there's this idea that because everyone was like will he do the Riddler and it's like that's very similar who had done such a great job in Inception and was probably thinking like, ooh, this guy could be a good Bane. And I think there's this idea that... Because everyone was like, will he do the Riddler? And it's like, that's very similar to the Joker. That's the same kind of... And the Scarecrow. This sort of spindly guy who's got plans and schemes. And they could have worked the Penguin into it, but Penguin would have been similar to Moroni in Falcone.

It would have just been a mob boss. He wouldn't have been the primary villain. He would have been a sort of motivator. He's your off-ball villain. And again, Batman's not going to fight the Penguin. Yeah. Like it would have just been a mob boss. He wouldn't have been the primary villain. He would have been a sort of motivated. He's your off-ball villain. And again, Batman's not going to fight the Penguin. Yeah.

He's not really. The Penguin has like umbrellas and shit. He doesn't really like do fist to hand fan combat. I remember them being rumors that

Hoskins was going to play the Penguin, which would have been so fucking cool. I mean, Hoskins as like Hoskins in The Long Good Friday as the Penguin

sounds terrific. Yeah. R.I.P. Bob Hoskins. Love that guy. God, he's so good. Yeah, I mean, there were all these villains that people were asking for, and then when Hardy was picked, you know, I remember every little

bit of detail was, like, chewed upon where they announced that they were, like, filming a lot of the movie in New Orleans, which was for tax credits, right? No, they filmed it in Pittsburgh. They didn't film it in New Orleans. Maybe it was a false rumor, okay? Pittsburgh. They didn't film it in New Orleans. I think part of it was in, maybe it was a false rumor, okay? Okay, yeah. But something came out about them filming in New Orleans,

or at least part of it in New Orleans, and everyone's like, oh, that must be because it's Killer Croc. I just remember that. No, no, no. Maybe the New Orleans thing was debunked. He sat down and he said, no, no, no,

you gotta save that guy for a Suicide Squad movie. I know exactly how he fits in. Right. You make sure he watches BET. Yeah. You make sure you get a shot of his wriggling butt what else is killer croc wears a hoodie yeah he wears a hoodie make him like pretty sexist like even for he's talking about suicide squad he's like dial it up yeah but at the end of the day he's pretty twisted. He beat me to it. Twisted. They mostly shot in Bucharest.

Where I think they are shooting the pit, the non-Gotham stuff. Right. Josh Pence's arc. Bo Callahan from Draft Day? Yeah. Winklevoss body yeah

but you know that story right yeah I know he was told he was I know I know yeah yeah uh

he then but then he and he shot a lot in Pittsburgh where he they do a lot of the city stuff but there's a lot of New York stuff too then I was about to say then they shoot a ton in New York City

yeah which suddenly is Gotham City with no attempt to make it look different right like Which suddenly is Gotham City with no attempt to make it look different. Right. Like with Chicago as Gotham, they do a great job

having the city be very real, but then you have the narrows and you have like a sort of like effort to make it look different. This is like, he robs the Wall Street Stock Exchange. He blows up the Williamsburg and Manhattan and Brooklyn bridges.

There is one of those shots of like the camo tumbler leading the bomb van, where they drive past the 2-3 Wall Street station. And it's jarring. You're just like, why is no effort being made all of a sudden to make Gotham different, a unique city? Right. Especially after we just watched two movies that were set in Chicago. It'd be one thing if it was like,

you know, the first time I wanted it to be Chicago, the second time I wanted it to be LA because I'm doing Heat, and the third time I wanted, you know. But he just changed. I don't know why he did that.

It is weird how different the city looks across these three films. It's very dark. It changes, right. Because you look at the Narrows, the design of the Narrows would not fit into Dark Knight or Dark Knight Rises.

No, exactly. Like, the Narrows is very comic booky yeah very stylized agreed agreed agreed agreed and yet at the same time this is weirdly the most comic booky of the three movies a hundred percent and in story like in and in unreality you know like the idea of it being cut off the idea of bane's like ridiculous scheme like and stuff. And also, in terms of how many different characters, how twisty it is, how many flips it is. It's not twisted. But it

is, like, there's so many flips in this movie, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's weird. It's weird. It feels less like watching a movie and more like reading, like, over a year a 12 issue run of a comic book where the writer kind of can't figure out where he's going with the story a little bit like but it's being written incrementally as they go you know i get you

and then but the the argument could be like look in batman begins gotham is this like fallen city and in the dark man begins exactly and then in the dark night it looks the duck night the duck night it looks a little different because it's coming up like the city is beginning to heal and now seven years later it's this sort of like rich booming city but like you know it's really just the one percent yeah one percent like who should say the 1%? You know, and like maybe that's why he's using New York. This is a stretch. This is the only argument I can find. Obviously,

there's no plausible reason the city would have changed. I think, you know, he was very influenced by the Occupy Wall Street movement, but didn't know what he wanted to say about it. I guess so. I think this... I thought that the timing of this was that it couldn't actually be yeah, because Occupy Wall Street was like

late 2011. Oh really? And this movie finished filming like late 2011. Like there's no way it was just one of those happy coincidences where it just like all of the because he always said his inspiration was A Tale of Two Cities for this movie. The Dickens movie.

Dickens' great movie. Such a this movie. Uh-huh. The Dickens movie. I mean, Dickens is a great movie. Such a good movie. Very underrated director. About the French Revolution in Paris. Right. And the eulogy that Jim Gordon reads for Bruce Wayne at the end of the movie is right out of A Tale of Two Cities.

Oh, wow. That's his nod to it. And so I think that's where he's getting this idea of the oppressed underclass and there's change coming and you're all going to be overthrown. And so I think that's where he's getting this idea of the oppressed underclass and there's change coming and you're all going to be overthrown. And then it just fits because he obviously is making it in the wake of

the financial downturn and all that. I also feel like this movie is weirdly indebted to Metropolis. Sure, it might. He's talking about Fritz Lang as an inspiration a lot. This movie, especially when you get into literally people living in different levels of the city, you know?

Yeah. It gets odd. And also just the literal, the scale and the scope of it. I think he was trying to make a very, very old-fashioned epic. You know? Like the other movies he was trying to make, like a 70s movies. And in terms of some of the stuff he realizes here, just the amount of

extras and the size of the sets and shit like that. It feels like he's trying to make like a 30s or a 40s movie it's a weird movie it's a weird movie so he makes it and then christmas 2011 he invites edgar wright uh-huh michael bay okay brian singer john favreau eli roth duncan jones stephen daldry and several other filmmakers who are not named. Also known as the Pussy Posse. Exactly, the new Pussy Posse. To the IMAX theater in LA to show them The Dark Knight Rises.

And then he says, I think he may have just shown them the prologue. Okay. Because it's December 11. So it's probably, and he says, I shot this on IMAX film. I edited this from the original camera negative. Look how good it looks.

Film is like important. Celluloid, right? Like, look how great this is. Like, please be like me. Like demand. You are influential directors. Like demand celluloid. And we can keep this thing alive.

I don't think it worked, but like, I just find that interesting. Yeah. How many of those guys continue shooting film? I don't know. Maybe Eli Roth. Does Edgar Wright shoot on film? I think Edgar Wright still film? I don't know. Maybe Eli Roth. Does Edgar Wright shoot on film? I think Edgar Wright still does.

I'm not a big enough nerd about that stuff to remember. Most of those are not the guys who are really pushing the film thing hard. No. But anyway, so he did that. And then they released the movie. Yeah, okay. July. Same slot as Dark Knight. End of July. July. Same slot as Dark Knight.

End of July. And the same slot as Dunkirk. He loves that slot. Apparently they wanted Dunkirk in the fall and he said, no, I want it in my Dark Knight slot. I want it end of July. He's like Big Willie. He's like Big Willie style. The way that Big Willie owned July 4th, Chris Nolan wants to slip in there right at the end of July.

And essentially he gets to run the table on August. Yeah, I think he always was encouraged by how Dark Knight did with just owning August so he was like, that's the box office spot. And it fucking worked for Dunkirk. And worked for Inception too, yeah. I was

looking at I was talking about Dunkirk box office with past and future guest Sam Rigao. And he was saying, like, I wonder how well it's going to hold. And I was like, well, let's look at August. And it's like nothing coming. No, that's the thing.

Exactly. No one's there. Right. I mean, it's going to keep our tower. But here's the thing. Look, I'm not hearing good things. Dunkirk's going to make like 10 million a weekend for like

8 weekends yeah I think so you know it's a war movie it's for dads and especially because IMAX has higher ticket prices

sure because those sell out faster so the demand to see it in that format will last for longer because you can't just all rush in opening weekend

and I went to see it just yesterday at the time that we're recording this podcast did you see it at Lincoln Square? I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I was surprised by the amount of like grandfathers with young children there. Like grandfathers with like young under 10 children. It's a dad movie, man. Yeah. It's a dad movie. Next week, Annabelle Creation and the Glass Castle and the Nut Job 2. Dad movies. Three movies for dads.

The week after that, The Hitman's Bodyguard, which is not a movie. Have you seen it? No. I have been invited to. I declined. Yeah. That's sort of my old joke about Jack and Jill where I feel like if you walk into the theater, they'll give you a publisher's clearinghouse check and go, you got us. It's not a movie. We just shot a trailer. And Logan

Lucky, which is a fascinating movie and fascinating release strategy and all that stuff. Sure. And then Friday the 25th, All Saints, which is like a Christian movie with John Corbett. Leap, which is like some like Belgian animated movie that Harvey Weinstein pooped out. He's been shifting around the schedule for four years. I've been emailed about Leap, which has had like three different names like a million times. Well, that's like the Amityville.

Carly Rae Jepsen's song, Cut to the Feeling, is is for leap yes that's that's how like weird its whole thing has been uh the the amity ville the reckoning or the wakening or new generation or whatever the new amity ville horror movie is uh yeah i saw the trailer for that before sin city 2 oh boy and harvey's just been shifting it six months at a time going we we really think January is the right. They have no money. I did. They have no money. It's so fucked up. It's,

it's literally like a, a ball and a cup game. Uh, yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. Anyway, this has been our podcast on the Weinstein company.

Yeah, exactly. This has been TWC talk. Quick talk. Okay. So the movie opens with the plane sequence. Which I think is just fantastic.

What do you like about it? How it looks. That shot of Bane dropping, that's my favorite shot of when the plane is horizontal and Bane just drops down to the seats with his arms out. Sure. Oh my God. Like right at the camera.

The shot for me that really does it is when the plane drops from. Yeah. Of course. That's incredible because it's a real thing they did. Yeah. Which is bonkers. Insane. Uh,

they did that, uh, which is, I think so much of why I love Nolan's, uh, choice of set pieces where it's not like like I can't believe what I'm seeing. It's like, that's real. It's sort of impressive.

I think it's also emblematic of the entire movie, which is the giant motivating force is what stuff I want to do on camera. Yeah, man. But I'm cool with that in a prologue. Agreed. And that carries throughout most of the movie. I just like seeing Littlefinger get his comeuppance and something. What a jerk.

Yeah, Littlefinger's there. So yeah, Littlefinger's like an FBI guy. Get him out of here. And he's doing his American accent, which is very similar to his British accent, which is very similar to his real Irish accent. When I was at Comic-Con, the whole Game of Thrones cast was staying at our hotel. And so I kept on like tapping my castmates and going like Scott, Scott look

it's Ramsay from Fast and Furious no she's from Game of Thrones she is from Game of Thrones look it's the shitty son from John Wick from Game of Thrones it's the villain from Shanghai Nights who Bane kidnaps in the plane

fucking Game of Thrones he's in Shanghai Nights? he's the main villain in Shanghai Nights who Bane kidnaps in the plane. They're like, fucking Game of Thrones. I kept on being like, why are all these... He's in Shanghai Nights? He's the villain, the main villain in Shanghai Nights. That's kind of a big deal

for him in 2002 or whenever that came out. It's him and Donnie Yen. Oh, wow. Are the main two villains and then there's the young child in the movie who turns out to be

Charlie Chaplin who was played by Aaron Taylor Johnson. Oh, weird. And then the other main... Charlie Chaplin is a character in Shanghai Nights? Shanghai Nights is infuriating. And you know who directed it.

Walt Becker, right? David Dobkin of The Judge. Oh, it's David Dobkin. That's it, right. Because I love Shanghai Noon. I'll stand for Shanghai Noon all day. I think that Shanghai Noon's a nice little movie. It fucking rules.

Shanghai Nights does this dumb trick where there's this little tramp boy who keeps on following them on adventures, and they're like, you better look out for yourself, Charles Chaplin, or one day you'll get yourself into real trouble. And then he like rubs his face with soot and it looks like he has a mustache.

They essentially pulled the Robin shit in that movie with Charlie Chaplin played by Aaron Taylor Johnson. Anyway, uh, the villain from Shanghai nights is good in this opening sequence. Tries to fuck with bane bane fucks back uh-huh uh bane transfuses blood into from one guy into another guy so he can kidnap a doctor and make it look like he died in the plane uh-huh but other than that you don't totally get what the fuck is going on even though they re-recorded the dialogue to make it clearer

now they talk about him in mythical terms they clearly his reputation why does he wear the mask right but he kind of just seems like okay he's some figure of political uprising he's a scary guy what's the game here he's a scary guy with a mask and then uh yeah he uh disposes of the plane in probably the least efficient and most expensive way possible but it looks cool and thank god they shut down IMAX cameras and then the movie starts in earnest the score is just going wild too

there's a lot of stuff going on I love that score this is my favorite of the Zimmer Batman scores too oh really? yeah

I think it's much better with him just cutting loose sure it's interesting they asked James Newton Howard to come back and he was like

your Inception score is really good. I think you guys just got to do it together. I think you guys are very creatively inspiring to each other. Sure. That's really nice. So you should just do it, which is funny. And yeah, he makes this wild theme for Bane with the chanting chorus that I love. It's really good, yeah.

And then, yeah, the crazy drumming. But he... One thing I guess that's kind of interesting that's established here is that thing where he goes like, no, you must stay. They will be looking for a body in the wreckage. And the guy doesn't question it. He doesn't fight it at all. No, brother! They expect a body in the wreckage. And the guy doesn't question it. He doesn't fight it at all.

No, brother. They expect a body in the wreckage. Right. The fire rises? Yes. So it's like this guy's got zealots. That makes a difference. The fire rises.

Yes. David's doing really good body language. Well, I can do this scene because I've watched it so many times. It's the other lines where I sort of forget. This is the one where he says, it would be very painful. For you. You're a very painful. For you. You're a big guy. For you. For you.

Rushing this plane. The best way to do a Bane impression would be to have someone step on your throat. You're right. You know? All of a sudden. Right. Yeah. But that's like a thing that's interesting interesting like a new wrinkle where it's

like okay this guy's got zealots he's got diehards who will follow him anywhere yeah you know disciples you know the league of shadows he's got an army of ninjas at his ninja school right he's got an army of ninjas at ninja school right but joker doesn't really got people he he works with whoever's closest at the time he mostly turns turns people. Right. He's got thugs, but they seem to change from scene to scene and he shoots them a lot. Yeah. Although, there is like

a devoutness to Joker's, but they're all crazy is the idea. They're all just mentally ill. He's manipulating mentally ill people. Exactly, because that's what Batman says is like,

these people are empty vessels, essentially. Right, but Bane's clearly got a legion of people who are hanging on his every word. There's a bit of a cult mentality. He is the leader of a cult.

Yes. That is, spoiler alert, I guess, the League of Shadows. Essentially. Some version of it. Part two. It's a reboot. It's like a reboot. Yeah, it's like a shitty reboot. It's like a dark gritty reboot. Right, right, right. And then we cut to Wayne Manor?

Is it then? Does it go straight to the party at that point? Yeah. It goes to the party. Oh, it goes to Jim Gordon eulogizing Harvey Dent. On like Dent Day. Right. National Dent Day.

All banks are closed in honor of the Big D. Yeah. It's funny. There's Dent is being honored for the Dent Act and for like the death

he suffered at Batman's hands. And Gary Oldman's giving speech was like, once again, I just want to reiterate that Harvey Dent is great and there's nothing bad to say about him. And then you look at the paper in his hands, it's like, Harvey Dent sucks. Tell them.

Which I don't... This is one of my big problems with the movie. I think this movie does wrong by Gordon and I think Oldman additionally does wrong by Gordon. He does. He's playing it as a totally different character.

He is playing it more like the Oldman villains of old. Exactly. Because he's got that weird quavery voice all of a sudden that he likes to do. And he's way too intense

the whole movie. Right. He seems to have lost any sort of like guiding light and I understand the point is that this is a Gordon who's made some concessions and lives with some

guilt. Right. But it's like the guilt has turned him into the character from Leon the professional. Yeah that's the voice he's doing. Right. Kind of. Kind of. He's playing a more subdued version of that but it feels like there is no glimmer of the old dent in this which

sorry not dent Gordon in this character but if that was the point that he's so far gone they should have written it differently yeah and it's the idea i think is it's like as they say in this opening scene like he was a wartime hero this is peace time so he's like kind of gone to seed like he's like bored or frustrated and his wife has left him justifiably yeah he was mediocre

was it the whole playing it close to the vest thing? played it real close yeah I mean this guy's a bit of a Scarmucci right? he gave up everything what a dated reference that's already an incredibly dated reference now three weeks from now or whatever it's gonna be practically like an artifact can i say this

you know so like everyone was so excited about scarmucci because he's the best character to come out of this whole saga right uh yeah right i mean i think in a lot of ways and uh everyone's like god the scaramucci movie. They're going to make a Scaramucci movie someday. Sure, sure, sure. Then he gets shit canned after 10 days and people go like, well, there goes the Scaramucci movie. Scaramucci movie just got better. Totally.

Assuming there's a little more. But yes. I think the Scaramucci movie is the third act of Goodfellas stretched out for an entire running time. It's 10 days on the clock and he loses everything. I guess. goodfellas stretched out for an entire running time it's 10 days on the clock and he loses everything i guess you just because he only did one thing that was just completely maniacal and insane i wish he'd done like four things you know i guess more might come out but i like the idea that you have a lot of time to do anything you know i like he sold his company right and that was i think part of the reason why his wife left him, correct? Also, she hates Donald Trump.

She hates Trump, too. And she was like, if you join the administration, I will leave you. And he tried for six months to get hired. So he had a lot of lead time to think it over. Still went through with it. And then also, you know, calling up the fucking New Yorker and making jokes about Otto Fallaccio. No, and look, he's a funny guy, and I think he's great. He's a great comedian. I can't wait to see his tight 10.

And I think he's doing a couple of open mics this week's great. He's a great comedian. I can't wait to see his tight 10. And I think he's doing a couple open mics this week. He did JFL New Faces. Right. Yeah. And he's going to be doing stuff at the Dangerfields. Congratulations to former guest, past guest, John Trowbridge for making JFL this year. Right? Didn't he?

I forget. I think he did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And James III as well.

Yeah. Black Panic Camp, John. Yep, Black Panic and Jump. We're there. Of course. Congratulations to John Braylock who I think beat his own record for live tweeting the fucking Dark Knight episode. I must have gotten 50 tweets from that guy. Oh boy.

You guys have a fun relationship. Me and John? Yeah. Go on. Sort of a Batman Joker thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure who's the Joker. John's the Joker.

Okay, okay. Cool, cool. All right. So you cut to, right. I just hate this idea where it's like, like I said, this sort of too simple logical thing where it's like,

well, here's how it worked. There was the Dent Act. That locked up all the mobsters. Without the Dent Act, they would be allowed to roam free and of course murder would be legal again because the dent act is the only thing between murder being legal and illegal and of course if anyone ever dared like put on a piece of paper some kind of allegation that harvey dent was a bad person right then this all would come crumbling the fuck down. Right, as if our country isn't based on a bunch of lies and deceptions that we now know.

The other thing is this idea that it's a lie that Batman killed Harvey Dent, which it's not. He did kill Harvey Dent. He knocked him off a building. Right, right. Now he had a reason to do it, but that doesn't exist. People are like, I can't believe Jimim gordon lied about the

manner of harvey dent's death and the fact that he actually justifiable reasons right to harvey dent if you think about it after he got his face burst up face burned off and he went insane he killed at least two people who were involved in his scarring. Right. This would shake the foundation of Gotham. The very idea that Harvey Dent, after being scarred, went a little crazy. Right. Why would people care this much? They wouldn't.

And it also, the Dent Act is way too tidy because the thing that the Dark Knight sets up, which is so cool, is like, okay, now Batman's got to be an outlaw. He's going to take the hit. Right. And now the real war on crime begins. Because it's not like when crime is the Dent Act, all criminals are like, better steer clear of Gotham.

That Dent Act. Because essentially, this movie sets up... The legal tricks they can pull. This movie sets up the Dent Act like it's like the government went, in a striking new announcement, we've decided to make crime illegal. Organized crime is now frowned upon. And everyone was like, look, we've got to respect the Dent Act. We're blowing up these mics.

You know what I'm saying? But it was like they were like, from here on out, all crime will be illegal. And everyone's like, okay, let's stay away from that. You know what? I think Donald Trump should try and pass the Dent Act on a national scale. It would be amazing. The Dent Act is the thing. Maybe the problem isn't this movie, but the fact that we haven't adopted the Dent Act in real life.

That's what it is. All crime should be illegal. This is Christopher Nolan's real argument. Yes. He's like, if only people would use celluloid to make their movies and finally pass the Dent Act. Right. The clowns in Congress, more like the Jokers. Yes.

Richard T. We all know the criminals love breaking the law they do but what this movie presupposes is maybe they shouldn't yeah no more no no no no this is also making me think like your initial point which is that the off-screen stuff yeah is the good stuff that we're missing out on which is like like, you know, Killer Croc got locked up, right? Off screen. Yes. Calendar Man. Calendar Man, yeah.

Yeah. Deadshot, all these guys, basically like the universe of the cartoon series is what had taken place. Yes. And now you just have no more crime? Right. And I talked about in the Dark Knight episode

how there's all the stuff set up directly at the end of Batman Begins that Dark Knight doesn't really do. And then this movie implies that all that stuff happened in between off screen. And now it's like, well, now it's all done. He's got the mansion. It's rebuilt. Everything's nice. But he's also got a beard.

He doesn't like leaving the house. So that's the scarf, which is another weird thing about this movie is Nolan's folding his Howard Hughes obsession into a Dark Knight movie. He supposedly wrote this Howard Hughes script that was like the best script he ever wrote. Right. He would talk about it for years. He almost made it. With Jim Carrey. With Jim Carrey.

And Aviator beat him. It was an arms race between him and Michael Mann who was going to make the Aviator. And Michael Mann dropped out. He was like, great, I got the lead. And then Scorchese jumped in and then he got cheesed. Beat, beat, beat. Yes. He made it fast. So, right. beat. Yes. He made it fast.

So, right, you're right. They're doing this. And there was a rumor after Inception like, oh, I've heard rumblings that Nolan wants to go back and actually make the Hughes movie. Yeah.

He feels like it's been long enough since the Avia that he can make the Hughes movie. Then he heard about rules don't apply. And then, I mean, he took the lesson. He did the warning.

The rules don't apply to Warren Beatty. To Beatty and he's got to step out. Nolan, so yeah, why is Batman's leg hurt? Because it is. Because that's another thing where they're like, his leg injury is so...

The worst. Remember when he hurt his leg in the Dark Knight? No, it was the dogs, I think. The dogs. They bit it maybe. I don't know. No, I thought it was Clayface. Yeah? No, it was the dogs, I think. The dogs. They bit it, maybe. I don't know. No, I thought it was Clayface. Yeah, Clayface.

Fuck that guy, Clayface. The dog bite him, but isn't it also that he jumps off the thing? He lands on Harvey Dent. He doesn't land on his leg. It's weird. They just make it like this old college football injury that he can never get over. That leg of his. Yeah.

He's so weird. But then when he decides to be Batman, they're like, luckily he can never get over. That leg of his. Yeah. He's so, and then when he decides to be Batman, they're like, luckily he has a leg brace. The world's most magical leg brace. Now you can do anything. Yeah,

right. Forgot about the leg brace. Yeah, he does have that. Anyway. You have all the technology in the world. Why would you just choose

to walk with a cane? But they make the Howard Hughes jokes. They go, oh, here he is in life. He's peeing in mason jars. He's got 30 inch nails.

So, yeah, 30 inch nails. He's been listening to mason jars. He's got 30-inch nails. So, yeah, 30-inch nails. He's been listening to 9-inch nails. Yeah, but 30 times. Yeah. Roughly, give or take. So, I guess the idea is that Bruce Wayne is so haunted by the death of Rachel.

He's never been able to get over it. That he can't get over it and that's why he's a shut-in. Because you would think, the way, if you want to end the Dark Knight with him not being Batman anymore, easy. Now's bruce wayne he can be a businessman but that is not how the redirect his money yada yada it ends with him telling gordon let them chase me they need someone right come after i'm gonna take the hit and instead he just is like actually never mind

i'm gonna go chill out in my house for seven years give or take right you know right yeah uh yeah because it would be easy to go like, I'm done. Batman has caused more damage than he, than, you know, than he, than good. Right.

Let me peace out. And that's the end of the Dark Knight. He retires. That's fine. But of course, they can't end the Dark Knight that way because that would be boring. Well, it would also be boring

if he was like, knocks him off the moon. He's like, well, I think my work is done. Batman's job. Punch the clock here. It slides down a brontosaurus's tail. And I don't mind the idea

that Rachel's death is haunting him, but then they use it in this really specific, lame, Nolan-y way where there's no real... And then the scene where Alfred is like, what if she wrote you a letter that specifically enunciated that she wanted to marry

Harvey Dent, not you. And then I burned it to spare your feelings. And now I'm telling you about it. Right. That's quite a hypothetical, Alfred. It's like... But there's a lot of that in this movie. Exactly. The amount of fealty

this movie has to the last two movies where it's like remember that thing? Yes. That specific thing? We're gonna pay it off right now. But also some of the inception-y like I need to have a character explain exactly what's going on for three minutes whereas Inception, as we've said is using that as means to an end. Right. To get to a

purely kind of visual cinematic state where you don't have to explain the rules. This movie has scenes like when Anne Hathaway comes face to face with Daggett, my favorite villain in the whole DC universe. I love Daggett. Daggett. He's a real...

Played by Ben Mendelsohn. He's a real jag it. Yeah, really. And he's a drag it. Very true. But when he's like, you're here for the clean slate, huh? And she's like, really. And he's a drag it. Very true. But when he's like, you're here for the clean slate, huh? And she's like, yeah. And he's like, the device that allows

you to clear your entire name, a criminal record in one thumb drive. There's a lot of fucking scenes in this movie where a character just says, oh, hypothetically if this existed and explains everything. Well, then Batman is sent to the worst prison of all time, which actually turns out to be the worst prison of all time which actually turns out to be

the worst prison of all time if you're robert mckee because the amount of fucking over explaining that's happening it's like now you will be subjected to the true torture tom conti explaining things it's the worst prison of all time but also the only prison where they can fix a broken back in four hours right it's no it's six months it takes six months okay but they do use ropes and and they it's dr army hammer's tried and tested method ropes it's also like ropes ropes birds uh they also sorry sorry i banged the table go ahead yeah but they like they they gloss over it so quickly they like show you what the procedure is and how much it hurts ropes and then they're like okay this could take about six months and then they

cut to six months later and they're like and that's the final one you know like his like recovery doesn't feel yeah i mean we're skipping i just it's the most mind-blowing where bane is like now the ultimate pain you must pay You have to spend time in this rehab clinic that, like, is not great. Let's be honest. Right, and you're going to get physical rehabilitation. Right, and training. And also just, like, some psychological adjustment.

Like, the people that are really trying to help him get his head up. It's Tom Conti. I mean, the guy is goddamn charming. Let's be honest. Right. But it is this bizarre thing where this movie's very long.

Very long. Is it Nolan's longest movie? It has to be. Right? Well, Interstellar's very long. Very long. Is it Nolan's longest movie? It has to be. Right? Well, Interstellar is very long. Yeah. Let me look it up. I've got it for you here.

It's coming. The news of the running time. Interstellar is two hours, 49 minutes, and The Dark Knight Rises is two hours, 45. So Interstellar beats it. Wow. Um, it's,

it's a movie that's very long and still feels very rushed. Uh, yeah. All those scenes feel like, well, we just got to get this out quickly. And it's like, yeah.

What the way to do it be to make the first hour of the movie, 20 minutes where it's like Bane's takeover is immediate, like in very fast and mysterious. And then you spend almost all the movie, 20 minutes, where it's like Bane's takeover is immediate, like very fast and mysterious. And then you spend almost all the movie on the prison and explaining Bane and Bane's time in Gotham and Batman returning, right? Rather than, it's an hour before Bane breaks him. Yes.

Maybe an hour 10. Like it's a lot of movie. Bruce doesn't put on the suit until minute 45. Yeah. Very similar to Batman Begins and he's broken at 110 yeah and he doesn't return

until like 2 2 150 something yeah sure yeah yeah

he returns to Gotham as Bruce Wayne at like 150 I think on the dot yeah and doesn't put the suit on again until almost like 2 on the nugget

so there's very little Batman in this movie. It's really saved for the end. And this one stretch in the first act. Sorry, Bartman. I think that's one way to fix the movie. It's just, it's very

that's a way to fix the movie and focus it, but it would have to choose what kind of movie it wants to be. It does feel like this movie is often an exercise in would it be possible to make a Batman movie without Batman at all? Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah, it'd be interesting. Because John Blake is really kind of fulfilling the main Batman role

for most of the movie. In a way. He's fulfilling the narrative function of how Batman needs to progress a story. How do you feel about John Blake played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt? I weirdly liked him a lot more this time. He's doing a lot of squinting. He squints. Squints with one eye.

Yeah. The idea of John Blake who is Nolan's Robin take is it's sort of this mix of the classic Robin i.e. orphaned boy looks up to Batman, with the Tim Drake Robin, the Robin of my childhood, which is the origin of him was that he was a smart kid,

a detective who figures out who Batman's secret identity is, goes to Bruce Wayne and says, I know you're Batman. Here's how I know. Can I be Robin? And Bruce Wayne's like, I like your moxie. Like, you know, okay. Because he's the one who sort of convinces him, like, I know you don't want to have a Robin

because your last Robin died, but like, look at me. I'm smart. Like, yeah. Jason Todd, the lamest of the Robins. Sure. He's a tough one. Yeah.

But then there's a lot of Gordon there because he has no vigilante impulse. Exactly. But then at the end, he does. Yeah. Which is tidy. Yes. Because there's one thing that happens that exists in the movie that exists only to make John Blake realize that the cops, they follow the rules too much.

And we need a vigilante under a waterfall who's going to help balance out the equation. So I know we're going out of order here, but it's just like, it's hard to even talk to the plot of this movie without trying to diagnose what's going on here. Because I kept on watching and going like, what isn't working? If you're playing blank check bingo, Griffin saying it's hard to do the plot in order is definitely like a quarter square. That's a given.

That's the center square. Yeah, right. That's the freebie. Yeah, yeah. But I like his performance actually in this. I do like it. I think he's fine. I think it it. I think he's fine. It's just that funny thing with Nolan

where he's like the second movie in a row by an actor that he likes. The second performance is often a little worse. I think he's actually a little better in this than Inception. I think he fits in the movie better in Inception. I'd hate to see Out of Control. We're both doing a real

Jogo face in here. Jogo. I think it's see out of control. We're both doing a real Jogo face in here. Jogo. I think it's one of two things, okay? I think either he should have just said, this is Dick Grayson, or this is, you know, Tim Drake. Whatever.

Name the character outright and said, my version of this character is a cop. I agree with you. I will admit that in the theater, I did get this little like flutter of excitement when I read it, when he goes like, Oh, try my legal name.

And I was like, Oh, I hadn't even thought about this. He's going to be Robin. Like, and it did genuinely take me by surprise. I got that flutter as well. It is so sweaty.

That scene. Uh, it's detective John Blake. I'm not seeing a John Blake. Oh, right. It wouldn't be under john blake not my name my name is robin the boy wonder right uh here let me hand you my photo id not say my name out check my legal name what is it oh i like that name you should use it more often robin okay fuck you so his name is john robin blake or John is his middle name and Robin's his first name?

Yeah, Robin John Blake. I don't know. Okay, I mean, you know, but also- Hey man, what's Batman Forever's explanation of the Robin name? What, what? He has a cool bike helmet with a Robin on it. Yeah. It's pretty cool.

But also Robin is not Robin's name, it's his nickname. Yeah, his name's Dick Grayson. Right, so then you'd have a Robin who has to change his superhero name because it would be his identity it is funny that he's Robin it's like what's the natural companion of the bat this little bird you know what I'm saying

I think there's a version of this movie where he goes look the Nolan vs. Robin little fat bird the Nolan vs. Robin is a spiritual Robin sure yeah yeah yeah I name the character tim tim drake or dick grayson yeah he's a cop he's not going to get into the suit it's the idea of a hero taking a different form being able to go through it the straight way rather than the way that bruce wayne

thinks the only way to actually affect anything is by putting on the mask right yeah he's like a counterpoint do you think the dCEU was going to do a Robin? Where's their Robin? Well, their Robin's dead. Yeah, but they got to do another one. They'll do one at some point. Because Jason Todd is dead, right? That's the idea.

Yes. Because there's been a lot of talk about a Nightwing movie. Right. Whatever. Give the people what they want. Nightwing. Which the Batman director is going to do.

Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not. Great. I'm so excited for that I think it'd be more interesting if they did like female Robin they either did like

what's her name Cassie I'm forgetting her last name now or the the Dark Knight Returns character well there's the Dark Knight Returns character which is just a kid

who shows up and is like let me fight who I love that character but you're thinking of spoiler the Stephanie Brown but yeah right the Dark Knight Returns one is Cassie yes the Dark Knight Returns who shows up and is like, let me fight. I love that character. But you're thinking of Spoiler, the Stephanie Brown. But,

yeah. Right, the Dark Knight Returns one is Cassie. Yes, the Dark Knight Returns one is Cassie. Stephanie Brown, Spoiler was Robin for a little bit. who was Spoiler, then she was Robin,

and then she was Batgirl. Right. And now they're doing a Batgirl movie, supposedly, with Joss Whedon. But I think it's Barbara Gordon. Probably. I don't know.

Current Batgirl is really good. I don't know if you read it. Yeah, it's awesome. Isn't also current Batwoman pretty cool? Like I don't know if you read it. Yeah, it's awesome. Isn't also Current Batwoman pretty cool? Like, don't people talk about that?

Yeah, Renee Montoya. I haven't read it, but I hear it's really good. A lot of stuff going on. A lot of good stuff going on. Anyway, anyway, anyway, that was Nerd Corner. What I was going to say

is watching this, I almost was taken with this idea, and I don't know if this is dumb, right? But talking about what's the way to handle this character,

I almost think the other way to do it is, definitely I think the first hour of this movie has to be 20 minutes. Yeah, right? That's a good pitch, right? Right.

It's really unbalanced. Because the first hour of the movie, it's like, let me try and go through it. It's like you've got the party. Bruce Wayne is a recluse. Right.

Okay. He's holding things as mansion. Wayne Mansion's been restored, but it's all covered in sheets, but he throws parties there. He hides in the shadows. He hides in the shadows. Selina Kyle's pretending to be a caterer. has been restored, but it's all covered in sheets. But he throws parties there. He hides in the shadows. Selina Kyle is pretending to be a caterer.

Selina Kyle. There's a lot of Selina Kyle origin stuff. We got to get to her because I actually think she's one of the stronger parts of the movie. I think she's the best performance in the movie. Yeah. So you've got a lot of like Selina Kyle, the cat burglar. She's playing these villains like dag it off of each other. Yada, yada, yada.

She's after the... And she's sort of a philosophical cowboy. She's doing it to survive, but she is it's a 99 kind of whatever she has a whole speech about uh the uprising the resistance and then you've got like miranda tate who's this like heir to the business world who is not ever established properly oh i think she's wonderful in the movie no of course it's fucking disaster. But it's so weird how clumsily they insert her and just expect you to accept her. Is that she's a nice lady who Alfred and Lucius and maybe everyone else is like, you should really marry Bruce Wayne. Well, it's like she's this weird sort of like moral center, right?

Yeah. And sort of force for good. moral center, right? Yeah. And sort of forced for good. When he comes out to the party and she sees him, she's like, oh, you've been dodging all my calls.

Like the idea that he's been ignoring her attempts to get the Wayne Foundation to step up to the plate and do some good, right? Then it turns out they've been doing that good even though they haven't been communicating with her.

Then they kind of immediately fall in love. Then they place her at the head of Wayne Industries. And then she's Talia. Well, it's the last part that's the huge problem. Right.

Which I think she could have been Talia from the beginning. Look, alright. So here's my... Should we just get to that? Here's my problem with that. Okay. I mean, the movie is

positing Taliaia the woman who survived the only one to ever escape right like this badass yeah and then we learned she's the daughter of liam neeson ninja king right and then she like what does she do she drives a car for five minutes and then dies like they don't give her any chance right which feels like a waste. Can I give you my alternate pitch for this movie? Yeah, go for it. So, crime has not been solved, right? Completely.

Maybe things have gotten better in Dead's Legacy. Right, right. But that's kind of the pitch of the darkness. Anyway, go on. But things have proceeded, but Bruce is at this moral crossroads where he just feels like he doesn't know. He's still Batman-ing,

but his heart's not really in it anymore, right? Kind of an analog to Nolan, perhaps. I think that's better, right. Okay. Just sort of part-time Batman. Right. Although I guess... But anyway, yeah, carry on.

Then Talia and Bane arrive sure okay not miranda tate talia hey i'm rosh al ghul's daughter he really wants that twist for some reason but it the movie loses so much i agree okay so talia and bane show up right and she's like here's my philosophy here's what i'm preaching right bane's my fucking muscle guy on the ground. Because I kind of like once there's that final scene where you set up the weird relationship between Talia and Bane. You know, this like... The relationship could be interesting. I would love to see that play throughout the entire movie, especially because those are two good actors.

It would be nice to see them be able to play off of each other and give Bane other things to play. Not that Tom Hardy isn't doing everything that he's handed very well, but it would be nice if the character had more dimensionality. Right? Batman goes to fight Bane and is broken. And rather than being thrown to the pit, he's recovering at Wayne Manor. So rather than the recluse stuff that's

at the beginning of the movie, that's when he sort of enters his recluse phase. But do they still take over the city in the same way? He's in hiding, but they don't know he's Bruce Wayne. Correct. Because of course part of it is like Selina lifts the fingerprint they figure out that it's Bruce Wayne. Right. But the two allies he's made at the beginning of the

movie are Selina Kyle who is sort of an uneasy alliance with right? Right. And Dick Grayson. Okay. Young up on up and up cop you know? Mm-hmm. Who hasn't totally figured out that he's Batman, but kind of sees something in him. Mm-hmm.

And you kind of go into a Batman Beyond type thing. Okay. Where feeble Bruce trains Robin to be the new Batman. People would have freaked out about that. I agree. Because you want Batman. They want Batman. I agree.

Right, right, right. I agree. But that's your fifth movie. You know, that Batman. They want Batman. I agree. That's your fifth movie. I agree, but the problem is I think Nolan knew I don't want to make five of these. I've got to wrap everything up here. It's just strange that in deciding he wanted to wrap everything up, he's like, okay, I'm going to make a direct sequel to Batman Begins

that almost ignores that the Dark Knight ever happened. Yes. Because if this movie had come out after Batman Begins. It feels like Batman Begins that almost ignores that the Dark Knight ever happened. Yes. Because if this movie had come out after Batman Begins. It feels like Batman Begins 2. Right. And it's like it had actually been from 2005 to 2012. Yeah. Then there's more logic to it. Where it's just about the Batman

versus the League of Shadows still. Right. Instead the Dark Knight happened in the middle. And of course this movie is very connected to the Dark Knight because it has the Dent Act, the Notorious Act. And the Rachel death. Outlawed criminality throughout the land. Sorry, three times he's having to turn my fucking mic down. He's so mad at me.

But also, the Joker is never mentioned, I think out of deference and respect. They don't do that. But it feels weird that the movie never acknowledges the Joker. I know. From a story standpoint. Especially because he's not dead. Right. And of course, there from a story standpoint. Especially because he's not dead. Right.

And of course, there was a lot of discussion of that throughout the production of the movie. People were like, is he going to use archive footage? Is he going to have any kind of reference to the Joker? And Nolan, who is a smart and compassionate man, was like, no. No. But it's more jarring because you don't have

other villains going around the city, especially when they release everyone from Blackgate prison, especially when you still have these Arkham Asylum guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's weird that it's just, like, Bane and Talia, who are this cult, and then Scarecrow, who's just a judge now. He's just Judge John Hodgman, you know, with his fake court. Sure. I like his fake court, though. I do, too.

I love it. I do like when he goes death by exile. Yeah. He's funny. He's very funny in those little scenes. I do like when he goes death by exile. He's funny. He's very funny in those little scenes.

But what I would do, I mean, I would make a movie where it's not that Dick Grayson becomes Robin or becomes Nightwing. It's literally like, I need you to put on the suit because Batman's a symbol. He means more than me. And someone needs to be out there as Batman to protect people. And at the end, you have Bruce come on with his mechanical harness. And he wears the armored suit. And the two of them fight together. I mean, shit, they did the armored suit in the two of them fight together. I mean, shit, they did the armored suit

in Batman vs. Superman. It's not like that had... Anyway. That's, I think, the cleaner version of that story without having to do all the twists and turns. Right.

Where he's... This is the one movie where the twists aren't for any larger narrative purpose. They're not saying anything. It's just gotchas. Yeah. You know?

And he loses so much by spending all the shoe leather trying to misdirect you at so many different points. Yeah. I mean, the whole fucking fake out with Bane being the kid in the pit is just like, who gives a shit? What are you talking about? And also, you know that's not Bane. Like, even if you haven't guessed the twist yet, you're like, look, the big guy's Bane. Like, you figured it out.

It's not hard. Also, it's Joey King. It's a girl. It's a girl. I mean, not everyone's guessing that. It could be guy's Bane. Like, you figured it out. It's not hard. Also, it's Joey King. Like, the... It's a girl. It's a girl. I mean, that's... Not everyone's guessing that. It could be a little Bane. But, yeah.

No, we're not all as big Joey King fangs as you and I. Well, Zach Braff, the number one Joey King fang. I never saw that movie. Yeah. They worked together in Oz the Great and Powerful, and then he wrote that film for her. Anyway. I wish you were here. Yeah. Yeah, I wish I. Anyway. I wish you were here. Yeah, I wish I was here.

Wish I was there. What's the name of that fucking movie? Wish You Were Here? Now I want to look it up. Because I remember there was a lot of complaint that it was actually grammatically incorrect. I think I wish I was here. Because there's also the Matthew Weiner movie

that has the weird title. The Matthew Weiner movie that has the weird title the Matthew Weiner movie is not fade away isn't it or is that the David Chase movie the Matthew Weiner movie was called you are here and then I think they retitled are you here the Matthew you're right it was called you are here and now I want to look I think it was retitled

are you here that's the stupidest title I've ever heard. Dumbest. Hey, you know what's my favorite part of Garden State? You're right. Are You Here? Can I tell you guys my favorite part? Yeah.

The lesson that you yell at dumps. I believe you've complained about this on this very podcast before, and I love it. It sticks in your craw to this day. I'm from New Jersey. So that movie must mean so much to you. I mean, it's really encapsulated. It gets Jersey right. I mean, it really does.

100%. Yep. I had a rich friend. You know? Mooch is in that movie, right? Mooch? He made it in, right? King of Jersey.

No. Yeah, just go. Listen to this Shins record. It will change your life. Sometimes when I'm feeling really unoriginal, I decide to do something that no one has ever done before. Wish I was here. Fuck you.

That's what it's called. And I think everyone was like, I think it should be Wish I Were Here. I can't remember. So, anyway. How the fuck did we get on Wish I,

oh, Joey King. Right. But that's the twist I would have done. I would have done the movie where you sell it all as Batman.

Yeah. Right? And then, oh my God, 30, 45 minute mark, maybe even take an hour, right?

Batman's back is broken and he can't fight. And then it becomes Joseph Gordon-Levitt in the suit until Batman finally gets his magical mechanical harness. I could see this. Right. Because the other problem was the way they advertised it, anyone with half a brain knew that Bane was going to break Batman's back. It's like, why pick Bane if you're not going to do that?

As the primary villain? I'm trying to remember the trailers exactly but I remember they certainly suggested a fight where Batman is beaten down. It did not maybe show you the back-breaking moment but it's you know and so you kind of knew that was coming anyway so it's a lot of build up. It was that and the vehicles. That's all they could show because that's the only Batman stuff.

Yeah I remember the trailers really tried to sweat the like very few funny lines in this movie because there was the one where she's like my mom told me about getting uh cars with strange boys it's not a car it's not a car and then there's one other where oh yeah it's like oh your wife took your car and he's like my wife yeah have you seen the abc family trailer of batman begins it's great someone posted on reddit i want to check it out it's so it's so good does it come in black i remember the week that batman i'm sorry bartman begins came out on uh best week ever uh yeah because you know best week ever their whole thing was they would

like pick a take on the topic and then ask all the stand-ups to riff in the direction of that predetermined take okay like that's what the writers would do is like what's our angle on this okay their angle was batman and throbbing and it was everyone talking about how this was the sexiest batman ever like they thought that was going to be the dominant narrative of that movie in terms of public response was like because they had like catwoman and stuff no no for batman begins oh for batman because they had kat Catwoman and stuff? No, no. For Batman Begins. Oh, oh, oh. For Batman Begins. Because they had Katie Holmes and stuff. So the new Batman movie came out this weekend and uh, Batman's hot now? Like that was the whole

segment. Uh-huh. Being like, I'm used to da-da-da, the Batarang, but is this a Bat- Dickarang? Okay. How are we doing? Do you know what we've also never talked about? What? Tankman Begins. What is that? Okay.

Oh, Jesus. Why did I ask? Because we got to do this as a catch-all for all the Dark Knight Trilogy stuff we haven't talked about. What the fuck is Tank Man Begins? It was one of the special features on the Batman Begins DVD. It was an MTV parody. From the year that Jimmy Fallon hosted the MTV Movie Awards.

Oh, Andy Dick appears to be involved. Yes, he does. Love that. And it is... Dude, I've never seen this. It's on the DVD. And they didn't have a lot of features on the DVD. Oh, Andy Dick appears to be involved. Yes, he does. Love that. And it is... Dude, I've never seen this. It's on the DVD and they didn't have a lot of features on the DVD.

Sure, sure. So it was like weird that Nolan chose to include this. That's funny. It's amusing. It's like, oh God, I'm hosting the MTV Movie Awards

and I'm running late. How am I going to get there in time? And then Batman shows up with the Tumblr and then they do the whole he's driving on rooftops sequence i got you where he's got the passed out rachel dawes except they superimpose jimmy fallon and he's making a bunch of jokes about batman and everyone keeps on misidentifying him as tank man the joke is they keep on going this guy's driving a tank must be tank man or. And it's so fucking sweaty

because I used to love those. Does that sound that funny? Yes, the MTV Movie Awards host plays them. We talked about the Matrix Reloaded one. But this one is like a disaster and they put it on the DVD and there's a point.

Maybe the one good joke in the entire thing is they cut to Jimmy Fallon doing the most offensive Italian stereotype, like Mario Brothers shit where it's like, ah, this is me, the shingle man.

I have finally finished shingling this rooftop. 40 years of shingling. And then he did, right? The Tank Man. Tank Man. Never heard of that one. It's a bad movie. Okay.

Not as bad as Shrek 4D, but a bad movie nonetheless. Right. Okay. So. I like Tank Girl. Me too. Yeah, cool later.

When are they going to reboot that? That feels like something. That feels very overdue. That feels close. We're close. We're like five minutes from. Aren't they rebooting The Crow? Like all those 90s things.

We're going to get like a Lily Amonpour. Exactly. Tank Girl. Yeah, The Bad Batch was so bad. I haven't seen it. That was a rough movie. So they titled it correctly? Yes, indeed.

The Bad Movie. So. Sel haven't seen it. That was a rough movie. So they titled it correctly? Yes, indeed. The bad movie. So, Selina Kyle. Yes. She's a cat burglar. Yes. She has night vision goggles, which if you flip them up, kind of looks like little cat ears. We all design night vision goggles so that

the furthest, outmost edges of them protrude a little more, so if you were to flip them up on the top of their head, it would look like cat ears. Because I remember when it was announced, he's doing Catwoman in this one. He's cast Anne Hathaway. People were like, fuck that.

Right. Catwoman, iconically done by Michelle P, obviously. Probably, in my opinion, the best performance in a comic book movie ever. It's right up there. It's the best superhero performance of my money. She's so good. Anne Hathaway.

Felt like a weird choice. At this point, let me find the actual filmography because I want to get it exactly right. I mean, Rachel getting married, she already had an Oscar nom in the pocket. Rachel getting married is 2008. So people are like, okay, you've proven that you are the talent that you've been positioning yourself as in a weird way. Because there was this kind of thing where she kind of like suddenly was in these serious movies and everyone was like, Anne Hathaway. I think she's good in Brokeback. She is.

It's a small role. Rachel Gay marriage, she really steps up to the plate. That's her best performance ever, I think. She's excellent in it. She would have been my winner that year. She's good in it. She's excellent in it. And then 2009, she's got one movie.

Boy, is it a winner Ride Wars her hair's blue written by it's blue Casey Wilson June Diane Raphael yeah then in 2010

she's in Valentine's Day small role Ben's shaking his head because we've literally the mics have caught on fire yeah

if you're gonna yell just back off. My hair is blue. Ready? Watch this. Blue! It's blue! My hair is blue! My hair is blue!

Valentine's Day, Alice in Wonderland, Love and Other Drugs. So she's doing a weird run after she proves herself to be like a serious real deal actress of not doing any serious real deal parts uh I think she's kind of fun in Alice in Wonderland actually

but that movie's a disaster I think she's kind of fun I don't like her in Alice in Wonderland I don't like her in Love and Other Drugs haven't seen it you haven't seen it?

oh we should do a quick movie just for you to get pissed off about that thing yeah that was a hard pass for me 2011 she does Rio and One Day. Do you remember the Jake Gyllenhaal? And One Day is like a, someone, some people are like,

ooh, maybe that's gonna be like a big romantic drama hit. There's a Skefrig movie. And it goes nowhere. Yeah. It's kind of bad. Right. So she's in a weird zone.

She's not like screaming cat woman right now. She's in a weird zone. She still has that reputation as like a theater kid. Do you remember the Gyllenhaal love and other drugs controversy? What was it? Because they were like, this movie's got a lot of sex. It does.

These characters are going to fuck a lot. And then some early bootleg leaked out of one of their sex scenes. And in the low res quality people were like oh my god fucking jake gyllenhaal his dick is humongous look at his dick and then it turned out it was like the bed bones because it was like low res i do not remember this at all people really this is the biggest dick in human history biggest dick in cinema right and it was like a ladder behind the bed all right okay whatever but then this year she's in this movie acquits herself great yes i think she does a great job i think she has a really excellent job i think she's the best performance in the film i

probably well i love hardy yeah she's less catty she's just doing a different thing which is wise and i don't go for yeah don't go over thing. Because Pfeiffer's real catty. She's owning the cat shit. And of course, Halle Berry had probably shown us how to not do a Michelle Pfeiffer type performance. Well, and the other thing was, you know, when they announced that Anne Hathaway had been cast, and I remember Cotillard was kind of like, Cotillard and... Cotillard. Cuckoo.

Cotillard. She's Cuckoo. And Rachel Weisz were like the two big fan cast choices for Catwoman no they were Rachel Weisz was the one everyone wanted to be Talia

that was like the most boring thing people would say online all the time because she looks like Talia sure as drawn but there were

there were rumors from the get go oh he's gonna have Catwoman he's gonna have Talia in it so then when they were like no Miranda Tate everyone's like fuck this yeah well for sure

it was like a John Harrison in Star Trek situation. But I remember those being the two names that kept on being thrown around for those two characters. And they both felt like Nolan-y people. And then Hathaway came out of nowhere. But in the announcement, they said, Hathaway has been cast to play Selina Kyle. Like, they pointedly didn't say Catwoman. Whereas when Tom Hardy was cast, they said Bane. You know?

So everyone's like oh is this gonna be something where he doesn't actually have her be Catwoman so when the first photos came out and she was just like

a jewel thief in a suit and she didn't seem very cat like there was like the question of how much they were gonna go full Catwoman in this movie

and I think they go full Catwoman within their interpretation of Catwoman which is a jewel thief who accidentally looks like a cat.

Does she have... I can't remember. Does she have claws? Does she have the claw thing on her... She has... The only claw thing that she has is the heels. Yeah, the heels.

Yeah, she doesn't do any... She doesn't have a whip. She doesn't drink milk ever in this movie. She doesn't order a white Russian hold the vodka and Kahlua, which is what Halle Berry does in Catwoman. No purring!

She doesn't constantly have a fully intact fish skeleton hanging out of her mouth. She's not drumming on trash cans. Hanging out with Top Cat. Exactly.

She's not chasing birds all hallmarks of Michelle Pfeiffer's work she's not giving me allergies but she wins the Oscar the same is what I'm saying like it's funny she wins the Oscar for Les Mis

which comes out the same year the same year crazy and so it's a great year for her yeah but I prefer her in this I would have nominated her for this I would have too and I also really I really like the scene when she's kidnapped

the congressman played by fucking what's his name Brett Cullen this movie's got a lot of really good actors in like day player unnamed character roles. Burn Gorman man I mean I love that guy's face and Nolan knows how to use his face I mean he's got a lot of really good actors in day player, unnamed character roles. Burn Gorman, man. I mean, I love that guy's face. And Nolan knows how to use his face. I mean, he's got some face work.

That guy can bathe in the river of ham. That guy sometimes lives in the river of ham. What a ham. I love it. Willem DeVayne plays the president for half a second on a screen. For on a TV. That's embarrassing. Yeah.

But that scene where, one of the many scenes that I would cut to be clear if I'm revamping this movie where she has the whole clean slate cell phone negotiation with Bernd Gorman and she's like

hi use the congressman's cell phone and you're like she kidnapped a congressman like what the fuck are you talking about and then the cops burst in

and she immediately starts shrieking like she's been kidnapped herself and crying. So good. It's such a great Hathaway bit where it's like, she's a theater kid.

She's an annoying theater kid. She's perfect at it. Yeah. I love her in this. I love her in Interstellar. I think Nolan is really good at unlocking. And the thing she does really well in this is, you know,

the unfair critique of Hathaway, who I think just gets a really, really unfair shake, is that she tries too hard. She wants us to like her too much. You know, the theater kid thing. Sure. That's always been the hit on her. Very tied to misogyny. Sure. but I think he harnessed in this and Interstellar an element from Rachel getting married,

which he hadn't done before that, which was like, oh, she can do good. I don't give a fuck. Sure. In the two Nolan movies, she's just like, I'm steadfast. I know what I'm doing. I don't give a fuck about you.

Right. Which is a different shade of her than most directors ask. I agree. You're right. Because essentially this whole movie is Batman being like, you're not so bad. I can tell. She's like, come on. She's like, I'm a piece of shit. I stole your mother's pearls. I fucking suck.

Yeah, I took your fingerprint. I literally led you to Bane so he could cripple you. Weird choice for her to play Catwoman sounding like Lenny Clark from Rescue Me. Hey, Batman, fuck you. Fuck you, Batman. God, remember when he lost a ton of weight and you were like, whoa. Yeah, put it back on, fuck you. Fuck you, Batman. God, remember when he lost a ton of weight and you were like, whoa.

Yeah, put it back on, Lenny. Yeah, where'd it go? You had a good look going. Let's go get it. Had a good look. Lost it? Can we try to find it? I feel like we're getting really catty in this episode.

Hey, Lenny, hey, Lenny. Where'd that weight go? And then finally, her big hero moment is he puts her on the Batpod and she kills Bane with it. She kills Bane. Yeah, she does.

She shoots him in the body. And yeah, yeah. And yeah, she's really good on the Batpod. Although it does beg the question, why didn't Batman just shoot Bane with the Batpod? Yeah. I think that kiss moment is totally fucking unearned. It's like clearly like they just wanted to kiss. I think that kiss moment is totally fucking unearned.

It's like clearly like they just wanted to kiss. I think you could still get away with that final moment with them at the restaurant without the kiss. They admire each other greatly.

Right. All right. So yeah, that's another thing in this. Fanny Branca. Fanny Branca. Right at the beginning of the movie,

Christian Bale's like, maybe that should be Batman. He's like, don't you do it. No, no, no. No. Don't do it. Don't bury another Batman. You know, he starts doing maybe that should be Batman. He's like, don't you do it. No, no, no, no, don't do it. Won't bury another Batman.

You know, he starts doing all that stuff. Right. Getting into this thing that like, I mean, he's like, suddenly the, like he's,

his whole face is wobbling. Kane sells it better than old men. Great in this. He's phenomenal. The crying scene at the grave. Right. You're like, right.

He can do this shit. Like drop of a hat in a, in kind of an underwritten role. Like, yeah, Kane sells it really hard, but it's weird. This movie asks, scene at the grave right you're like right he can do this shit in like drop of a hat right in kind of an underwritten role like yeah kane sells it really hard but it's weird this movie asks both gordon and alfred batman's two closest friends and most trusted allies to both just get really mean and angry about everything that's the thing because kane's like kind of just like he's been batman's been in self-imposed exile for seven years and Kane is at the point

of the start of the movie gently nudging him to maybe go outside a bit more and he's like maybe I'll be Batman and he's like no!

and he drops the tray Ben is losing his mind oh damn it it's fine it's fine I love you Ben and freaks out at him

and says I used to go you know what I'll go to a fucking place in Florence to get a Fennebranca, and I'm always hoping I'll see you over there. Which is a lot to load onto Bruce Wayne right at once. In the first 15, 20 minutes of the movie,

and also the second they cut away to show him sitting at a restaurant ordering the Fennebranca, looking around, you're like, well, now here's the fucking ending of the movie. They give it away too much. I still like it. One Fennec Branca, looking around, you're like, well now here's the fucking ending of the movie. Like they give it away too much. It's like,

I still like it. One Fennec Branca. I like it as an ending. Fennec Branca. But I think it's like, Nolan's not following the own like rules of a magic trick that he lays out in the prestige. Like he keeps on showing you the wrong pieces. Good take.

He forgets to prestige us. Yeah. That's true because of course, this is the same movie we ran into Tate where he's like, who could she be? Certainly just someone who's interested in

clean nuclear power. Right. Nothing else. Right, like he never makes us... I definitely wouldn't cast Marion Cotillard in any other role. Right.

Ra's al Ghul is very important, though. Let's talk about it. Let's keep on talking about Ra's al Ghul. What about this clip where he's saying he had a wife? Yes. And a child.

And a child. And a child. And we don't state the gender. Esther Carbonell? Dag it. No, but it does feel like, you know, so often the Nolan puzzle thing, right? And I think it is. It's the reason why I think Prestige is his best movie is that people misidentify it as a puzzle thing, but it really is a magic trick thing.

He wants to be able to pull off a greater feat by getting you to pay attention to the wrong thing. He wants the applause. He wants the applause. He's Hugh Jackman, you know? He wants to just be the technician that Christian Bale is, but he wants the applause. And, you know, he has too much finesse and style

to do the Christian Bale thing the first time he does the reappearing man where he doesn't know how to sell it. Where people don't even understand what they're looking at. He wants to give you the pieces, like he does in Inception, give you the pieces clearly so that you're impressed with what he's pulled off. It actually means something, right? But this movie, he's not doing it. He's not putting in the work. And I think it's because he can't figure out what the one singular thing he's aiming doing it. He's not putting in the work. And I think it's because he can't figure out what the one singular thing he's aiming at is.

And if the movie is about Gotham City hanging in the balance, I think Gotham is less of a character in this movie than it is in the first two. Mostly because, like I say, the design change is so intense that it really almost feels like

it's taking place in a different city. I think that's big. And I also think there is less time spent with the civilians of Gotham in this movie. A little bit, yeah. Sure. You know, I mean, you're really focusing on John Blake. You're focusing on Selina Kyle, who represents a certain strain of disenfranchisement.

Juno Temple, though. Yeah. Could she be Ra's al Ghul's daughter? Could be. People thought she was going to be someone, right? I think they thought she was going to be Spoiler. Spoiler. Yeah, whatever. Whatever. Anyway. I mean, Macy never did Poison Ivy. could be people thought she was gonna be someone right I think they thought she was gonna be spoiler spoiler yeah whatever

whatever anyway I mean Macy never did Poison Ivy it seems like a classic Nolan villain yeah yeah

Black Mask we still Humpty Dumpty sure Calendar Man get that calendar out but we haven't really talked about Bane that much

no let's talk about Bane. He rules. He's awesome. He rules. He's a really good friend. Not quite a third friend, but you know, he's up there. I think the movie does him dirty a little bit.

It does him dirty by not giving, he's all show. He's all, he leads strong. He's front loaded. He's also not in that much of it. Well, he's not in that much of it after the first hour because the first hour he's in the, obviously the plane scene is all about him. And then you have him gathering his forces underground.

There's the scene where Gordon rumbles him and he, you know, kills a couple of his. It's so comic book-y that this movie is about like Gotham, like all the cops having to live in the sewers. This is why I want to keep talking. Because, yeah, we're deep in this episode, but we do have to talk about all this weird shit. Right. It's very comic book-y. He builds an underground lair directly underneath the armory of Bruce Wayne. He knew where it was.

Where that was. Which means he knows that Bruce Wayne is Batman, but doesn't choose to do anything about it. His whole plan is so convoluted. Yes. And it's like Nolan has this idea of him as this imposing person that is brilliant, in my opinion, because Tom Hardy isn't that big. No. He's maybe 220 pounds tops, like all muscled up. But he photographs big.

He photographs big. And it's the same thing as doing the plane thing real. Like if it's real, then it works way better than if you just over, you know, like CGI'd or make up some guy to look comically large or hire a wrestler. And I think he does a really good job of, I mean, I think it was smart that he didn't choose to build himself as muscles upon muscles, but just give himself a lot of bulk. He's like a

tree trunk. He's not that defined, but he looks like a bouncer at a bar. And of course he's bald. The way he's dressed is wonderful. The mask is very intimidating. Great mask design. The vest is amazing. The vest and then this big furry coat he's bald the way he's dressed is wonderful the mask is very intimidating the vest is amazing and then this big furry coat he's got that's sort of like part dictator

part nightclub bouncer part mobster from Russia and he does the scene with Daggett do you feel in control scene? where he lays his open hand what's this part like front down

like palm up on his shoulder the back of your hand the back of your hand you should know it well I'm so tired you know what I mean

yeah yeah I am you know that scene yes where and it's like that's all he needs to do to convince you of his physical strength

right and then you cut away and you hear Dagger going like it's like that's all he needs to do to convince you of his physical strength right and then you cut away and you hear Dagger going like ahhh he's like well and that's you know Bane in the comics was written to be

a genius a genius who is a brilliant strategist right he's both right he's both and then he had sort of

been diminished through various properties I mean Batman and Robin did a lot of the damage of just making him the muscle yeah you know just making him purely a physical

force without that sense of strategy, you know? He's mindless in that movie. Right. But that's the thing. So you've got all this, and then you're like, what's his plan? His plan is to seal Gotham off. Right. And have a nuclear bomb that's part of this nuclear power

plant that Bruce Wayne built but never used. He wants to destroy the government. he wants to give power to the people but not for any clear reason he doesn't actually because in that big speech that you let the podcast off with he's saying like I'm going to pretend like I'm giving power to the people and then blow them up so it's like him trying to

do the Ra's al Ghul thing that he was trying to in the first movie except why waste all the time why would you ever just blow them up if you got the bomb just blow them up? If you got the bomb, just blow them up. He's got this idea where there's a trigger man who is turns out to be Talia who can blow up the bomb at any point but

Which feels kind of jokery that he's trying to prove a point about the people and their intents. What point's he proving? He's not proving any point and the point has no gain to him and it's not like philosophically that's what he believes in like the Joker. He gives all these speeches, right, where he's like, finally the many will have power over the few, yada, yada, and he locks the police away in this crazy thing

where he lures them all underground. So it's like, okay, so he hates police, he hates government, but then he lets the criminals out and gives them all machine guns, so he likes chaos. So people are supposed to be like, oh, I love Bane. He's really cleaned up the city. And then, of course, his big moments are he blows up a football field. Right.

Which is this impressive shot, but because it's CGI, it's one of those Nolan things that doesn't really work for me. It's fine. And it would be impressive in another movie because the rest of it's so practical. You can tell all that stuff with the bat that they were actually hanging that thing up. The bat is awesome. You can tell that they used the CGI to green screen out you know

the wires or whatever but you can tell there's actually a fucking physical thing running through those streets and it's a cool thing in my opinion it's a very very cool thing

so then when you have the football stadium exploded even if it's a striking imagery it jars with the rest of Nolan's like dog and it seems to prove

no purpose except I guess he's just announcing himself right and then so he does that and wait I lost my train of thought here uh oh and then he reads the speech right by Jim Gordon where he's like in fact listen to Jim Gordon and yes saying like see this piece of paper proves it and everyone's like oh he must be right he's got a piece of paper there's a Looney Tunes character your Bane impression sounds like. I'm close to figuring out who your Bane impression is.

Marvin the Martian. Yes, that's who it is. You sound like Marvin the Martian. Great. Take control of your city. Yes, yes. Nailed it, nailed it, nailed it. Great.

I can sleep now. Now I can go to sleep. Now I just love the idea of Marvin the Martian being the villain. Love Marvin the Martian. When Gotham is destroyed, you will have my permission to die. You do a much better Marvin the Martian. When Gotham is destroyed, you will have my permission to die. You do a much better Marvin the Martian. Okay, let's see. So you came back to die with your city?

It is good. Jesus. That's a really good thing. So my problem with Bane is his plan just seems to end up being a story mechanic. Agreed. To let Batman go away, heal up with Tom Conti raconteur legend of

British theater and then get his back right right climb out of the pit using the rope

but then he doesn't use the rope so the pit's supposed to be another non-literal version of the Lazarus pit right is that

the idea I guess so because the whole movie everyone was like oh there's a Lazarus pit for example

check out this press photo of a pond that has to be the Lazarus pit Liam Neeson's coming back so because that whole movie everyone was like yeah oh there's a lazarus pit for example check out this press photo of a pond that has to be the lazarus pit liam neeson's coming back and instead liam neeson does come back for one like vision yeah which is confusing yeah where he's like let me explain to you how it all works i'm the father of not bane, how would I know that? Goodbye. It's so weird. He shows up to trigger a flashback to a thing that actually happened. Josh Pence. Josh Pence.

No, no, but he also triggers the flashback to him saying, I had a wife once. It's true. It's true. You know? Because the Josh Pence flashback is triggered by Tom Conti,

not by Neeson. Neeson shows up to remind him that he had a wife and child. That's what being a pro is, when you trigger a Josh Pence flashback. Tom Conti, man. It's so funny. Oscar nominee. I kept on asking them to let me do that on draft day,

and they were like, you're not ready, Griff. To trigger Josh Pence? I was like, can I say something that triggers a flashback to Bo Callahan in high school? And they were like, Griff, you're not ready. You're still getting your C-level. You're not Conti level. You're not Conti level.

You gotta go in a pit for six months and have him wrap some ropes around you with Armie Hammer. The idea is that like the- Armie Hammer plays the bald guy who's blind. Yes. He's a chameleon.

The pit's really weird in this movie too because it's like a jail without guards. Without guards that's not that intense. It seems like it's just a bunch of old guys shuffling around a very weird amount of stairs. Who have kind of found inner peace and life.

Yeah, they seem all very chill. Right, and want to impart their wisdom onto other people. And it's tuned to like a Gotham local news. The TV is particularly weird to me. Where he's like, ah, the worst prison in the world. The only channel we get is Fox 5. And yet we're told halfway around the world

we're told we have Ernie and Estes. Keep fucking that chicken. We're told over and over again by the people in the prison, how bad the prison is and how like it was such a miracle that Talia escaped it. A man is as good as dead.

If he comes down here, no one gets out of the pit of life. Oh, let's see how many wormy apples Neil Rosen gave Valerian. Do you want your eggs scrambled or poached today? The only options in the worst prison. There are no guards and they're like, look, only the worst people end up in this prison. But if you can make it out alive, you're free to go.

Yeah, I know. The rules of this prison are you can't leave. The only way out is to climb that thing. And the only thing you have is a rope and stones set into the wall. And you get as many tries as you want. Get as many tries as you want, but be careful and make sure to wrap that rope around you. Oh, and also, if you do get to the top, you can let everybody out. Also, if you do get up to the top, there is a private plane waiting right there to take you wherever you need to go.

Because Batman gets out of there wearing rags and he shows up in Gotham the next day. And he's like, Hey, Selena, I got here. But the bridges. Yeah.

Well, I'm here. The pits kind of just like big brother, right? I guess. Or like survivor. It's like, it's like,

I'm a celebrity getting out of here. Right. Yeah. It's so weird. And that's too bad because I do like a lot of the imagery. I like how the pit looks. Yes. Like, I like even the sort of like

the cut to Gotham in the snow and the tumblers are rolling around and John Blake's making the little Batman marks everywhere in chalk. And like, the imagery's there. And Nolan's command of the set pieces is there. It's a very well directed movie in terms of directing

that script the best anyone possibly could but he doesn't know what story he's telling and then when you get to the climax it's this it's sweaty like you say it's a clusterfuck we have to get the bomb that he's been driving around because today's the day it blows

up which feels like a weird homage to the Adam West Batman movie where he's trying to get rid of the bomb in the Batcopter. It's really interesting. And then also we need to have this strange image of a mob of cops fleeing down the street

charging the people in this like yay sequence yeah the whole thing's odd and the whole sense of like okay Gotham's gone underground there are only a couple cops

but they can't even admit who they are Modine's a yellow bellied coward Modine I think Modine's good in this he's not bad and then he dies

I know brutal yeah but I think if you want to make a movie about a city collapsing, he has to focus more on the city and not just three people dealing with the problem. Yeah. You know, like as much as it can be pinpointed as like the moment where he gets kind of sloppy and unfocused.

For the larger philosophy of the movie, the two boats thing in Dark Knight really does a lot. You know, like even if it's weird storytelling, it makes Gotham matter. And the fact that he gives the people that choice and they make the right choice matters. Yeah. And this doesn't do anything like that.

And I'm not saying they need to have two boats again. I'm not saying they need to have human beings, you know, regular citizens rising up and making their own choices and doing the right thing. But the, the, the movie doesn't have enough of a sense of place considering how much the plot is about Gotham. Gotham being hobbled, being removed from the rest of the world, cut off.

How did they make the bat signal in gas onto the Brooklyn Bridge? And also, that's a waste of time. I'm sorry. I know you want people to know that Batman's back, but how many men had to climb up that bridge and just with a paintbrush just run gasoline up and down it? No, I think the wing is a little more of a

20 degree angle. Okay, thank you Catwoman. Oh, we had it upside down the whole time. Fuck, we gotta start over. Yeah, right. Let's go the other side. It's a weird movie. Very weird movie. The ending is he fights bane beats him and bane is like but i broke you like he's like surprised even though he left him in the prison to not die right uh he beats bane by punching him a bunch and then Selina shoots him. Then Talia shows up,

stabs Batman. Yes. Gives a whole speech, long speech, drives the bomb around for five minutes, dies very quickly. And she's an Academy Award winner so she does kickstart a couple Pence flashbacks.

Uh-huh. She knew how to do it. Good job. Thank you. The most mocked and inexplicable death scene, right? Yeah. That is just

where she's just sort of shakes her head and she's dead. She also just suddenly shows up wearing supervillain clothes. She does. She's wearing this

sort of like Middle Eastern like caftan thing. Right. That's very tied to the, I mean, she's wearing like

the Ken Watanabe sort of outfit from Batman Begins. A more muted version of that. Okay. And I just... Oh, right. Yeah. Nolan's a meticulous filmmaker. He puts a lot of effort into this stuff,

right? How is that the take they use of her dying? It has to be a conscious choice. Like Cotillard's like, into this stuff, right? How is that the take they use of her dying? Yeah. It has to be a conscious choice. Right. Like Cotillard's like, I want to play it this way.

But it's a weird take. You know Wally Pfister. This is the last movie that they worked on together. I would love to know why that's the take. Sure. Is it just because Cotillard was like, no, this is my conception of how she dies

and that's how I want to play it. Because I cannot believe that all the takes were like that. If otherwise, you know what I mean? Sure. I would love an answer to that too. Would you agree that it's a much-mocked thing on YouTube, the sort of Cotillard death scene?

I also think this characterization, and because of the amount of time they spend with the misdirect, which never works, right? They never sell it properly, is shitty's because of the amount of time they spend with the misdirect, which never works, right? They never sell it properly. It's shitty because one of the things that's interesting about Talia as a character is that she is a genuine romantic partner for Batman. Right. That they do have a real relationship even though they stand on opposite sides of what they represent. You know?

Like, it's not just like, oh, they fuck and then they fight. They turn on each other. Oh, the sex scene is... Weird. Sweaty. Really? This is sweaty stuff. He needs it to happen

so he has it happen. Right. It's, like, very pushed along. But I also think, like, the moment she reveals herself to be Talia, it's like, I'm all bad. And the thing that's interesting

about Talia as a character is you can't figure out if she's all bad. Uh-huh. You know? Like, well, maybe there's something there right you know and you already have that with catwoman exactly so it's kind of had on a hat to have both of them i just think and i as i said already it's just weird to have her not do anything physical agree when the

whole point of the prison is i mean not the whole point because it's psychological too but like is When the whole point of the prison is, I mean, not the whole point because it's psychological too, but like, it's such a physical achievement to leave it. And the League of Shadows is like such a ninja-like physical organization. I will say this. I don't know if I'm remembering this incorrectly, but I think I'm right about this. Cotillard just had a baby right before the movie. And there was like, everyone wanted her to play Catwoman. They were like, oh, the pregnancy, she might not be able to. Then they announced Hathaway. Then she delivered the movie. And there was like, everyone wanted her to play Catwoman. They were like, oh, the pregnancy,

she might not be able to. Then they announced Hathaway. Then she delivered the baby and then they cast her and her announcement came a little later and I think they maybe shot her stuff towards the end.

They might have written out physical stuff because she was in a recovery state. Yeah, I mean, that seems plausible. I'm trying to find in her personal life. Yeah, I mean, that seems plausible. I'm trying to find in her personal life

her children. In 2011, they had their first child, a son. In 2017, their second child, a daughter with Guillaume Canet. Yeah. The guy who made The Beach. No, he didn't make The Beach. He's in The Beach. Yeah. What did he make?

Blood Ties. That was his American film. Blood Ties. Tell No One was his big... Beach. He's in The Beach. Yeah. What did he make? Doesn't he direct movies? Blood Ties. That was his American film. Blood Ties. Tell No One was his big... Right. That's a good movie. That's like a little French thriller. I'm not crazy about his movie. He drives me a little crazy.

But, but, but. It's a weird use of all these characters. Now, when the movie came out, everyone was like, how are they going to fucking top the Joker? How are they going to do this? And I remember everyone being very disappointed with Bane at the time. But Bane's staying power has been kind of astonishing.

Yeah. Because for a movie that is... Because it's so unusual and no one's ever tried anything like it since. Right. It's a generally disliked movie. Yeah, because I would say the movie came out, got good reviews. Yeah, it got like 95% on all the dumb aggregation sites got like 95% yeah no no and because it is this very impressive epic score

epic scale thing and the Dark Knight reaction was so positive and in the Inception reaction so right and then quickly it's reputation diminished Bane's reputation yeah I would agree increased because what's weird is that like the Bane love isn't like well it's kind of like a weird like curio

like this bad performance in a bad movie that's interesting bad I almost burped there while saying that a bad performance in a bad movie that is interesting for unintentional reasons it is like well this movie sucks but Bane's good all the Bane shit's good

Bane's kind of interesting I would largely agree with that he's interesting as a construct it's a good design it's a great performance and Bane's good. All the Bane shit's good. Bane's kind of interesting. I would largely agree. He's interesting as a construct. It's a good design. It's a great performance. And Bane also remains funny. Like, in the way that I was saying, it's the opposite of what I was saying of, like, I feel like Ledger's Joker's been diminished a little bit.

Yeah, just incredible. By people running into the ground. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Bane is still always funny to me. Bane rocks. Anytime anyone draws Bane, I think it's funny. You put Bane in another situation, I think it's funny. put Bane in another situation I think it's funny I still think the joke construction of

this would be blah like pause for you I still think that's funny yes I do too everything about Bane's funny he's a good comedian

it's too bad that he died in this movie I know R.I.P. Michael K. Bane and yes and the saddest part of all is he died before ever making

a loyalty. It's been a while. It's been a while. So he made that joke. Yes. This joke will be very repetitive. For you. Movie ends.

Batman goes to live with Selina Kyle in Florence. Alfred goes to get Fanny Branca. He's also in... Alfred has like not much. Not much.

Not much. But Cain really kills it. The early scene the Fanny Branca and then the graveyard crying scene right at the end. Right.

And then he's like goes to get another Fanny Branca. Yeah. The sad one. Fanny Branca. I could say because they're drinking

Fanny Branca it's sort of a bitter ending or bitter finish and then he sees them hanging out Bale looking great by the way

really great where you're like fuck he's hot get him right he is hot Batman and Throbbin am I right seriously

and then yeah that shot of Blake swinging into the waterfall discovering the Batcave we black out on the thing rising I mean I think that's a nice thing I don't think the movie earns that ending but I think that's the right way for the trilogy to end do you want to play the box office game I do so Avengers

had broken all the box office records that had previously been owned by the Dark Knight Dark Knight. Yeah. Dark Knight was like 154, and then Avengers, I think, opened to like... 202 or something crazy? Yeah, right.

Past two. Or Harry Potter had broken the records in between. But anyway, Avengers was the first to crack two. And when Avengers outperformed, people were like, oh my God, if Avengers did that much, imagine how much Dark Knight's gonna do. 207. But then Dark Knight does open

a little low. The shooting happens midnight. It scared people a little bit. It continued to do really well. It multiplied well. But the opening wasn't as huge as they thought. It made $160 million opening weekend. Domestic total $448 million and worldwide $1.08 million. Basically the sameestic total $448 and worldwide

$1.08. Basically the same worldwide total as The Dark Knight. Slightly higher. It made a little more overseas a little less domestic. Exactly.

Yeah. So it opens number one July 20th 2012. Okay. Number two is an animated film that had come out and debuted at number one

the week before. Brave? No. That is number five. That is number five. That's number five. Okay. Yes. Is it a DreamWorks picture?

Which is made 208. It is a Fox picture. Is a Fox? It's a blue sky film? I think so. Is it an Ice Age? Yes. But which Ice Age?

Is it Continental Drift? Yes. Correct. Hell yeah. It is. Oh boy. What? Is that the fourth? That's the fourth. The fourth one. Yeah. So that's there. We yeah. It is. Oh boy. What is that?

The fourth? That's the fourth. The fourth one. Yeah. So that's there. We've talked about this way too much on the podcast, but yeah. Number three has been out for three weeks. Okay.

It's a superhero movie. It has made $180 million. It was a disappointment compared to the film that had come before it. Although it was not really connected to that film. Interesting. Is it an X-Men picture? No. It is not really?

Because First Class is, I think, 2011. I think so, too. And Wolverine is 2013, right? The Wolverine. Best one. Agreed. 2012 is not a oh

it's not a Marvel movie is it Marvel character not a Marvel movie Marvel character it's not a Marvel movie so it's not oh oh

Amazing Spider-Man Amazing Spider-Man starring Andrew Garfield and Dennis Leary Dennis Leary and Larry Lenny Clark

maybe not number give me that Spiderman number four has been out for four weeks all these are movies

that were number one their first weekend and have dropped like as the next one came in okay so this was number one four weeks ago

it is a comedy R rated comedy I would use that loosely sure he'd use it loosely I think it's because he thinks it's not funny It's not funny it's R-rated

It's an original comedy Yeah Starring a big comedy star Kind of Made by a big comedy guy Interesting Starring a guy who's like been in comedies I don't know if I'd call him a comedy star

Is it not an Apatow movie? No. Other guy. The other guy. And it's not Todd Phillips movie. No. It's an odd couple kind of situation. True. It's a two-hander. It's a two-hander. Sort of. And neither of them are

Oh. Oh. What is it? It's Ted. Ted! Yeah. America loved Ted. And then you got number five, which is brave. Ted opened to 50 and did 250. Huge hit. That's insane. 218.

Okay, but Ted 2, it was amazing how roundly everyone was like, nah, no more of that. There was really no need for it. But I didn't think there was need for Ted 1. But at least Ted 1 is like, oh, it's a funny idea. They made a gross comedy. Like, ha ha ha ha. Ted is,

I will say this, I'll give him credit where credit's due. Like, one of the most effective one sheets. It's not like a beautiful poster. No, I get you. It's just put Mark Wahlberg

on a couch with a teddy bear and they're both like holding beers and it's like, you've sold your movie. If people want to see that, they know exactly what it is.

The pitch is that simple on that thumb. Right. Okay, Ted, and then Brave is number five. Brave number five. You've also got Magic Mike hanging out. Masterpiece. It's made $101 million in four weeks. Great movie.

Very impressive. Yep. Savages, the Oliver Stone joint that I've never seen. Never seen it either. Tyler Perry's Medea's Witness Protection. That's the Larry the Cable Guy one,ea's witness protection that's 60 mil larry the cable guy one i believe or that's the uh no that is the eugene levy one yes correct uh he's wearing sunglasses on the poster funny jim's dad funny funny moonrise kingdom which was a summer

release or late spring i can't forget exactly uh toonji. To Roam with Love is up there. Madagascar 3. Europe's Most Wanted. And a movie we may one day do on this very podcast. Dark Shadows. Wink wink. Wink wink.

Wink wink. Wink wink. Wink wink. That Dumbo movie sure sounds weird. Yeah. It sounds like a real blank check to me.

Yep. I guess so. They're making another Dumbo movie sure sounds weird. Yeah, it sounds like a real blank check to me. Yep. I guess so. They're making another Dumbo movie? Live action. Directed by Tim Burton. Colin Farrell and Will Smith. Will Smith's not in it. Michael Keaton's in it.

Because they moved Will Smith over to something else. Aladdin. To play the genie. Was that Disney? Is that a Disney? Oh, yeah. So they didn't bury that shit like it should be. They're like, let's bring it back

and revisit this horrid, horrid movie. What's so horrid? Which one is that, Dumbo? Well, the crows. Well, I assume they're not bringing back the crows. That would be quite a move yeah

what if Tim Burton at Comic Con or whatever was like D23 the crows are in it we cast all vine stars vine stars are playing the crows

oh yay yay so so that's it that's that that's that yeah we did it that concludes

the Bartman saga. Yeah, and I wonder, did you feel disappointed in Nolan? Was the hype less for you when Interstellar came around? Because he'd made a much more disappointing movie? Because before then, it had always been like, oh, Nolan, he's great. You know, hit, hit, hit. It was kind of, I'd say my Interstellar hype was maybe even greater because it was like

okay now he's getting back to what he clearly wants to be yeah yeah because I was very hyped for Interstellar but I love space like I love astronaut movies

that's like my favorite kind of movie I love space I thought the trailers for that movie were some of the best trailers ever cut yeah well it's his best film

and we'll talk about it next week great we'll talk about it next week yeah I mean we're gonna talk about it in like a couple weeks. Right. Yeah.

I'm busy. Humble rag. I'm biffy. I'm biffy. Well, this has been our episode on the Duck Knight Rises. True. Thank you all very much for listening. Yep.

Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. He said it. Thank you to Lane Montgomery for his theme song. Ooh, to rate, review, subscribe. He said it. Thank you to Lane Montgomery for his theme song. Mixing it up with the order. And for Google for social media. Of course. Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds

for our artwork. Go to the Blankies subreddit for some real nerdy shit. Mm-hmm. Blankies.reddit.com. Yes. And. As always.

As always. as always as always he's really searching for something he's grabbing in the air what's he gonna say uh I'm Bane thanks

you got it Marvin the Martian for us I broke you have you come back that's better