Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Hudsucker Proxy with Mike Mitchell & Nick Wiger

Episode Date: August 10, 2025

(Gestures at a circle) You know, for kids! Mike Mitchell and Nick Wiger of the Doughboys join us for a freewheeling, gut-busting episode about the time Joel Silver gave the Coens a bunch of money to make a “commercial film” and then it ended up being 1994’s The Hudsucker Proxy. A sampling of topics discussed: Paul Newman being hot up until the day he died (and possibly after), whether or not this movie has a Sturges protagonist in a Capra film or vice versa, whether or not the previous question even matters, the fact that Griffin has never seen The Wire yet has watched every episode of Greg the Bunny, the amount of baby wipes David has to buy in a month, the extent to which the style of humor in Hudsucker overlaps with that of The Simpsons, and a whole bunch of Yaddle talk for some reason. Read Caity Weaver’s Mozzarella Sticks piece from 2014 Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your  pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Plank Check with Griffin and David Black Jack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Black Check You're punching at 8.30 every morning Except you're punching at 7.30 following a business holiday Unless it's Monday, then you punch in 8 o'clock. Punching late, and they podcast you.

articles, get a voucher. Outgoing articles, provide a voucher. Move any article without a voucher, and they podcast you. Let a size without a voucher, let a size of green voucher, oversize a yellow voucher, parcel size of maroon voucher, wrong color voucher, and they podcast you. 678704.9a slash 6. That is your employee number. It will not be repeated. Without your employee number, you cannot get your paycheck. Interoffice mail code is 37. Interoffice mail 37 slash three. Outside mail is three slash 37. Code it wrong. And they podcast. you. This has been your orientation. Is there anything you do not understand? Is there anything you understand only partially? If you have not been fully oriented, you must file a complaint with

personnel. File a faulty complaint and they podcast you. And then in brackets underneath that line of dialogue, spoken at 160 words per minute. Um, you know, uh, when you watch a screwball comedy on your modern television and you have the subtitles on, you know, it's a screwball comedy when the subtitles can't include all the dialogue. They have to cut out lines. They're editing. And just a note, if you're going to scream... Oh, sure. After spending 30 minutes setting up levels.

Just give me a heads-up. Yeah. That guy. Maybe the most time we've ever spent perfecting levels before record, then I immediately... Fucked it all up? No, you're fine. You want to...

Hey, you want to dock me? I'll think about it. I made that sound sexual. I'm saying you can dock my peg. I don't think he thought it was sexual. Well, I just want... Is docking when you, like, put your dicks together? I think there is an actual sexual connotation for docking.

Docking is when you put the head of one penis into the foreskin of another. I think it's uncircumcised, meat circumcised. Yeah, you need one uncircised. To be fair, both could be uncircised. You just need at least one. Right, but you need one docking station. Correct. Essentially.

Correct. Wags biting his lip trying to get in the docking conversation. That guy. The Orienter, actor's name is Christopher Darga. I just looked him up because I was like, who is that guy? He works all the time.

There are, he has like 10 credits a year on TV shows and stuff. There are like 30 people in this movie who have exactly one scene and I think of one of the greatest performances in the history of film. The blue letter guy. Uh-huh.

Uh, mustberger's secretary. Okay. The one who screams or the one who? I don't see an appointment in the books. She's funny. Like, everyone is just like a great face. a great voice a great rhythm yeah my favorite though is just like to get like two dozen bald like middle age guys who are just like i love that those those guys are great so funny as far as stock characters

go though my favorite is the the lady who kind of talks like this and this movie has so many of those ladies that is a good or you know what i like um when hutsucker uh hits the ground yeah what you mean when the street is wearing hutson exactly uh yes uh that a lady who goes like, ah, like that's a good type of lady. Like a big lady in like a sort of fancy outfit with like a little thing on her head,

you know, like a little net. I think it's the same lady. I think that's just like, they're just a different emotional points. It's good stuff. God bless them. Different types.

Yeah, no, it's got a lot of ladies like this and a lot of guys like this. You backed away at the end. I did. I'm trying to be considerate towards Ben. There's the, the blue letter guy has two,

it's the way he solves two specific words. It's the third time I think he says blue letter when he tries to accentuate and go, A blue letter! And then he ends it with going, must be delivered to Musburger. Musburger! Richard Schiff, the great Emmy winning actor, is in the cast as Mailroom Screamer. I didn't even notice. It must be a background screener.

Exactly. But like to be credited as a screamer in Hudsucker, that feels good. This, like the supporting, not the supporting cast, but like all the, The day players in this movie feel like they were pulled out of a time machine. 100%. All the modern day actors who are recognizable, you're like, oh, that's smart to think about a combination of people who would be able to approximate this old acting style, who had pieces of this in their modern screen personas.

And then every guy who's just like a face I've never seen before, my inclination is like, they got a fucking phone booth and they went back to the 30s and they pulled the guy off the Paramount lot. The guy's at the fucking diner. it's great I said I went into this movie I had never seen it before and so in the first 15 minutes I was like what the fuck is going on I going on here I had no idea and just so many great and like at first I was like is this over the top like what is happening here you were worried that I wouldn't like this movie let me clarify this is one of my 10 favorite movies of all time wow this is one of my favorite movies we'll ever cover on this podcast your number one coens just not to spoil our you know list I do not think it is their best film and I think when we get to the end of this series You'll be wrestling with best versus favorite. I actually can't rank this at number one. There are better films I think they've made and in a way where the distance between

them is great enough that it would be absurd of me to put it higher and yet I have seen this so many fucking times is one of my ultimate comfort food movies. I like it more every single time I watch it. It is a movie that is so squarely pitched at all of my interests, my sense of humor, my sensibility, my like dream movie aesthetics, all of that. So I was just like very protective of this episode. This is one of your rewatchables. This is one of my ultimate top tier rewatching.

Do we get Simmons on? We gotta get Simmons on. I'm also like every- John Mahoney is like Eddie House in this movie. Just raining three is off the bench. He would have 10 minutes on the end of Nicole. You know, I agree with them. That he house thing is spot on.

No, I mean, Mahoney's good. Mahoney's great. He's really good. Every other movie that I would put on this tier, I could like form more of an art. argument on the right day of like, would I put that on my site and sound top 10? Whereas with this, I'd be like, that's silly. I'd put a different Cohen's on. But because it is such a specific flavor and I care about it so much, we were trying to find an episode. You threw your hat in for

this. And I was just like, Mitch, I don't think you're going to dislike it, but I don't want to run the risk. I just want to know you have seen it before we give you the episode for sure. And I watched it early to make sure. And I was then mad at you because I, I was, how do you? Yeah, how could you ever think that I wouldn't love it? Yeah, it's great. I, but I'm, I'm a little bit curious just, you, like, knowing how much you love this movie and knowing that y'all do guestless episodes and you were kind enough to fit us in when we were in town. But I was like, that struck me as like, oh, this is just going to be a guestless one. And we're just going to hear, you know, Griffin go off. There's a lot of potential guestless episodes of Cohen brothers there. And then everyone wants them. Everyone loves these movies. And also the other ones that we've done that are guestless, even if they're like personal favorites of ours, there are also movies that are like, so culturally huge that you're like between our love an ET, a social network,

some big movie where there's plenty to untangle, Robocop, Back to the Future, these things where you're like, there's also so much cultural shit to talk about.

There's interesting production stuff on this movie, but this is so much closer to being a movie that doesn't exist in a weird way. Even though its reputation has risen.

No, my wife was like, what the fuck is this? Not in a mad way, just like, how did this get approved? I think it's, I think it's categorically still the least known of all of their movies.

It's kind of amazing that it exists and also that they were able to get this made like pre-Fargo. Like before they were at a point where they had like, you know, guys that they weren't Oscar with. We're going to get into this, but this is their first blank check and it's crazy because it's a blank check

they are given based on just how good they are. Right. Even though they had yet to make a movie that made money. Really. On letterbox, which I always find interesting is a pulse of you know, the young. But just how many people have logged. When you go by popularity, it is above

every, it's below everything but intolerable cruelty and the lady killers, which makes sense because those are the least, those two are the least regarded. But in terms of number of like people who've logged it, not necessarily rating. Right, right. That's literally just people who have pressed, I have watched this movie. So, I mean,

speaking of wives, my wife, Natalie, this is also one of her top ten favorite movies of all time. And so I had a, I had a part when you, you know, one reason we're talking about Hudsonucker, I have a personal connection through her. I'm putting this movie on at home, and she's like reciting the opening narration.

Like, it's like that level of fandom and that got a good one, Nick. Yeah. Hey, don't I know it? You got to get yourself a good wife. It's pretty important. What was this? The wife guy.

A wife guy is basically being crucified sitting down. Is that what's going on? Nick sort of like outstretched his limbs. Lean back and put his arms out in a T-post. Let's also acknowledge that Nick, just broke a chair right before recording I did look here's the thing he basically spilled himself onto the floor

I'm gonna say this I was late to the record and then I broke a chair so like I'm starting starting behind you're trying and then you try to say that's like what I would be known for I think if you're gonna put money on one of the doughboys is going to be late to the blank check record and break a chair at the studio

Mitch and I think that I would have Mitch and I thought plus 850 versus Mitch we thought we were gonna beat Sims here and we were so excited and it turned out sims got here early but we thought like we're on track to beat him and then if we're both earlier than you guys we win we win forever let the record show and tomorrow doesn't matter when we record a dope voice episode if griff and i are 45 50 minutes late it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter they're they're going silent they don't like this i love it this is look this is blank check with griffin and david i'm griffin i'm david i'm david

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Hudd sucker proxy is a pretty good example of that. I would say it is their most sort of, it's their most obvious blank check, even though it wasn't, you know, a $100 million movie or whatever, but right? Totally. Yes. And we'll talk about it.

It was like the first time they consciously were like, can we make something that's more of a commercial crowd pleaser? it is what is fascinating about this movie is like they don't think of it as a like one for us that we're getting away with they were like it is time for us to team up with Joel silver and start making like blockbuster hit comedies and this is their calculation of like yeah movie that everyone will want to go see you saying it's one of the lesser now movies I'll say this from my perspective this was a huge blockbuster case movie like the the cover the cover movie it was because and I had no idea idea what it was about because it's a really weird poster you're like what the fuck is this i thought it was about i i honestly genuinely thought i was about vacuums and i think it was hud sucker and in on the cassette to a box yeah his hair is kind of going crazy so i was like oh this is a vacuum movie the vacuum is in reverse or something here and he's pulled a hula hoop in a way where you almost at first wouldn't quite understand what's going on yes yeah i had no i i i didn't i knew nothing about the

hula hoop until i thought it was but this was a huge blockbuster video like hey look at that movie i should maybe see that at some point, never, never did. This was the only Colin Brothers movie I've never seen. I just think that that's wild. I think every bigger budget movie they make after this, and they've never made a huge budget film. Like, what's their most expensive movie? True Grit. I think True Grit

probably costs like 50 or 60. I don't think they've ever gone over that. True Grit is listed at 35. This is what's crazy about them, right? Because, like, this still might be their highest budget film. At $40 million dollars, 25 years ago. 20 years ago.

30 years. ago. Is Truggar or no country a bigger hit for them? Trugger is the biggest hit. Trugert was a blockbuster. And then it's like no country and burn after reading, both were really big. Burn after reading is right up there with, wow. Weirdly made almost as much as no country. That's wild. Having that much reputation. And then everything

after that is sort of like, well, they keep their budgets low enough that the return on investments okay. And like things like Big Lobowski that bombed at the time, but obviously it becomes so profitable through just being like now culturally ubiquitous. But it felt like this was the last time that they were like yeah, if they give us like huge studio money everyone will come see our movie

and it scares them in a way where they maybe become like incredibly responsible after this. This is a mini series on the films of the Cohen brothers. It's called pod country for no cast. We could have called it the podcaster proxy or the pod sucker castie or many other

things. Yeah. The hot sucker Proxy is a is a bad title. I've grown used to it. Same. It's a bad title. It's a bad title. I mean, it confused child me. I mean, it confused child me as well. It is basically designed to

be remembered incorrectly. Right. And it also doesn't even matter that much to the plot. Well, he is the titular proxy. It does describe the central premise, but in the weirdest way possible. But what should it be called? I don't know. Yeah. It's not like

I'm like, but it should have been called like the Hulu Hoop Man. Like, I don't know what you call this movie. Or dumb CEO or some like shitty dumb CEO's pretty good. Dumb CEO would have been pretty good. Obviously, Caratop had already made Chairman of the Board. Right. Well, to compare it. Norm had already suggested you spell it B-O-R-E-D-D-A-D-D-A. No, actually, this predates. Yeah, that's 1998. So they could have called

a chairman of the board. They could have called it chairman of the board. Can I introduce our guests? Yeah. Because it's very exciting. For the fifth time on this show, entering the fifth timers club, But first time in person, we've finally done it, 10 years of our two podcasts coexisting. We have finally crossed the streams with all four of us in the same room on mics. This has never happened. This is wild. This is happening for blank check today and then tomorrow.

And I think the episodes will be out in reverse order. Tomorrow we're doing the opposite. Y'all are coming to Headgum, New York and recording an episode of Doe Boys. Home and Home. We're doing a Home and then we're ending both of our podcasts, which is huge. It's over. We're doing it A murder of suicide.

The Patreon, to be clear, stays turned off. Yeah, Patrons are. We're doing a murder suicide and we're placing bets. We're creating an online marketplace to place bets on who's doing the murder versus the suicide.

Wow, yeah. Roger Rabbit. They live. 7, 1941. Yeah. So three, like, huge kind of classic landmark films with their directors. And then within this year,

2025, You're of Our Lord, a sort of themed doubleheader of, like, early whiffs, big budget comedies from legendary directors, except 1941, I would argue, kind of stinks. And this, I would argue, was misunderstood at the time. This is much, much better than 1941, for sure. I think this is a legitimately great movie. I agree. I love the hot side of time. I think it's great. And I've seen it probably a half dozen times.

It's, you know, it's so. singular like like and I know that's a weird thing that's to say about something that's so clearly evoking like you know the the screwball comedies of of yesteryear but but it does like it like I don't know it kind of has such like it existing in 1994 as one of those makes it feel so distinct and there's other stuff that's kind of like of that era but it but we that's doing a similar thing but it's things like the tim burton batman or the the warren baity dick tracy and those are like tied to IP and they also don't have the same sort of like cadence of dialogue which is such a characteristic of this. I have a lot of thoughts on this on why this film transcends. I think at the time

it was written off as being a bit of a pastiche. And I think that is actually an incorrect label for what this movie is doing and why this movie actually works. But it makes sense why people were sort of putting up a guard against it. I do just want to formally introduce our guests. Oh, right. I'm Googling pastiche as you do that, so this is perfect. Yeah. From the doughboys podcast. Italian noodles usually served with sauce. I could spell it correctly.

I just don't know what it means. From the doughboys podcast, Eden Cohen, Mike Mitchell. How you doing? Did I peek? And the self-sucker proxy. There we go.

Nick Weiger. Wow. Okay. So self-sucker process. was submitted by A.J. McKee and our production coordinator. Wow. And Eaton Cohen was...

Eaton, EITN, O-I-T-A-L-A-N-D-Y-K was submitted by A-L-Z-A-N-D-Y-K on the Blankies Discord. We probably have it. We probably know that person from Doe Boys, too, I'm sure. I'm sure there's crossover. Can I read a couple more? Yeah, please.

Yeah. Mr. Mooseberger. Okay, I like that. Guy who always needs the double stitch. That's good. Sixth letter word for the condition of the hypothalum. Yes. The most liquid businessman on the street. Yeah.

I mean, we're kind of just doing hud sucker jokes now. An extruded plastic dingus. That's funny. This one out of respect to Mike Mitchell being in such excellent shape, trim Robbins. Wow. Trim Robbins. Hey, that's nice. You want that Tim Robbins, but long.

He's a long. He is a long fellow. He is so, he's too long. And out of respect to Nick's recent legal status, a man who isn't allowed near a hula hoop because they're, you know, for kids. Those are all from Hoffbeast. Very good. Paul Newman is 5'10.

He's like, he's not a short guy. Like, he's a sort of regular set. And Robbins is just like a foot taller than him. Is Robin's 6'6? I think Robbins might be close to like de Blasio height. Yeah, he's a tall drink of water. He's listed at 6'5. Yeah.

but I like am I wrong that tallest Oscar winning actor ever wow that is that is wild I feel like when I generally am seeing Tim Robbins and movies things are blocked to not to deemphasize right because you don't want him yeah look insane unless it's part of the plot and here the cones do the opposite because they're just trying to emphasize like how you know tall and how much he's sticking out they get him the hair his hair yeah yeah a big lumbering galute it's like when Bart wears the the pinstripe suit and the, you know, in The Simpsons to try and look tall Oh, right. Yeah. Like, it looks like they're making this cartoon character. Yeah. I, we're getting into Ferdal... And he has the little chihuahua. It's a good discussion here. It's a great bit. We're getting to fordall discussion. I just don't want to go too much further without

remembering to play the drop. Ben, I think we have a little drop. Oh, my God. Don't we have a drop? This is exciting. I never thought of Yoda has like a sexual creature until Yaddle, honestly. Did Yoda and Yaddle? Did Yoda in Yaddle? Yeah, I would think they probably fuck. You think they really

Fuck, that's really funny. Buddha man. Oh my God. Oh my God. Well, good. And that's canon. Until JJ came and fucking wiped it all out. You know what?

Hearing how much our podcast sucks on your podcast just makes me feel bad we're guests. Well, these are two podcasts that have discussed Yaddle because we discussed plenty. We discussed a lot of Yaddle. Back when we did the prequels. First year of our podcast, only prequel talk. There's not enough. of Yoda and Yaddle crossover in the movies.

In my, in my opinion, I mean, I'm sure in the, and there's backstories and comics and stuff like that. But that's why it's, to me it's so funny that somebody, George Lucas, I guess, was like, should we just like put a wig on a Yoda puppet and have one another one be there, you know, in the, in the council who doesn't talk or do anything? And like, sure. And then like the fans are like, so what's up with Yaddle? Like, and no one's just going to be, I don't know, man. We put a wig on a Yoda.

It's wild for there to basically be. She has a wig on. She has, like, hair. Like, there are, they are the only two of the same species on the council and they never interact with each other. No, never once. She doesn't say anything. She never says anything. We don't even know what she talks in the fucked up way.

Right. Like, it would be funny. She was like, hey guys. That would die. Wow. There would be a lot of questions. In one of the Disney Plus cartoon things recently, they did a standalone episode on her backstory, and I think she was voiced by Bryce Tell us out. Yeah, that's all bullshit.

They should do that. Yeah. But the backstory. the original official backstory to Yaddle was that she was like a youngling, a Paduan or whatever, and then she was like kidnapped in some battle and she was a P-O-W and she lived in a pit for like 150 years. She figured out how to turn the force into nourishment to survive. And then they saved her and all the other Jedi's were like, I think she deserves to be made a master.

And Yoda put his foot down. He was like, she doesn't have enough time in the field. And they were like, she was in a fucking pit. Is this real? Now that's all. Now it's all wiped away. But the original idea was that Yoda was like,

I don't want another one of my species coming in. Like, this is just for me. In canon, Duku killed her. Like now in canon. Oh, wow. In that cartoon.

Yeah, sexual jealousy is here. And also, they've never named Yoda's species. Yoda, Gatel and Grogoo are all just Yoda's species. Oh, Grogu. I forgot about it.

Grogo. He's the story of 2026 is the Mandalorian and Groku. How did you forget about Grogo? He's probably going to play ping pong with a porg or whatever. It'll be great.

This could be so big. Was it Iger who was, was it Iger who was like, let me see that my billion dollar baby or whatever. Wasn't that his thing about? Yeah. I don't care if you like the Mandalorian. I'm like,

whatever on the Mandalorian. I think you're too much of a sourpuss about baby Yoda. I think Grogu's good. Yeah, I mean, look, am I being a hypocrite? Has basically remained innocent while everything else about that show has gone on. They kind of smartly never did much Grogoo. They've been... Instead, the Mandalorian became all about like, do you want to learn about like

Mandalorian politics? And I was just like, no! Not at all! I am a hypocrite that I love the idea of Yaddle and don't like Grogu. Would you like Grogu if you found out that Yaddle was Gorgu's mom? Yes. I would love to see a young Yadal. young Yadal

And then like a Yadal childbirth scene Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing a Yadal Childbirth scene You will like Grogu You will agree to like Grogu If Yadal is Gros' mom And they show the conception on school I need to see the conception

Happen has was it another Yoda That does that you know is it No it's just some guy It could just be a man Dude at a truck stuff Has he wait has Lucas weighed in on Grogu? There's that photo of him holding the baby on set

Which is kind of cool It was like, very true. That's fun. Yeah. I, it's, going back to what you're saying about Yaddle, it's, this was a time, the, the, you know, phantom menace comes out. This is a time before I feel like everyone knows the term world building. And so a creative decision of like that is like, oh, yeah, we'll just put another one like that, you know, another Yoda with a wig on, like you were saying. It's just like, that becomes a thing that informs decades of, a fan theorizing.

But I guess, I guess like world building sometimes is as simple as just like, hey, we'll just put some shit in the background and then let people. speculate. Can I make a deal with you guys? I like Grogu, but Babu Frick can burn in hell. How's that? I think that's fine actually. Really? And I mean, I like Babu Frick, but like, I could lose Babu Frick. It's okay. We can lose him. I never need to see him again.

The bad movie, like, the movie where it's like, there's no way into defending that movie. He's so hard. Yeah. He's good. He's funny. Yeah. He's like, hey, do you think. Yeah, maybe he's bad. Do you think there is like a room of like 800 writers right now working night and day trying to come up with what is the Grogu version of Chicken Jockey

for the movie next year? Like everyone, you're saying like, oh, he's playing ping pong. Like, they're just, what is the thing we can have Grogu do that will go viral? That's a great, yeah. Oh, boy. Question. They must, right?

That is like a deeply cynical world that you are projecting that is for sure going to happen. They're trying to calculate those moments. What is their memeable moment? What is the thing that Grogu is going to do physically in relation to something else? like him eating the eggs or whatever maybe crawling back

into Yaddle's womb right you keep pushing that who made who made the drop was that Ben no that was the drop king wow wow how about that out of retirement hey DK thanks for making our podcast sound like shit

thanks a lot yeah um yes of course Nick and Mitch are joining us from the dough boys podcast if anyone doesn't know about that I don't know I'm sure everyone Um, but yes, a Northeast podcast mini tour conveniently create an opportunity for you guys to stop over in New York for a couple days.

He's, we're thrilled to be here, right? My God, what a treat to see. Honor and I, I, I mean this sincerely. The reason that we're here is probably to do this episode more so than do our tour. I think that is probably accurate. You, I, uh, Yikes is not a big travel person. Yeah, no, I'm not like it's a nightmare, but I'm, I'm happy to be here. happy. I always love coming into the city and have a reason to do so. And so we're over here for some tour dates anyway. So yeah, I'm glad we can figure out some studio time. And to talk about a great New York movie. Wow. How about that? That's true. It is true. It's true. It's a, you know, New York. Art Deco, New York. Fantasy, New York. I'm going to cite many things in this movie as being one of my favorite things of all time. There's no way one minute of this thing filmed in New York. No, absolutely not. Entirely in North Carolina. In the big studio. But they went so hog wild on.

the buildings and the miniatures for this and they basically were reused for the next decade. So the city of this movie is repurposed and obviously built upon redesigned for both Schumacher Batman's. That makes so much sense. For Roland Emmerich Godzilla, there are like five other blockbusters that

used this city as a starting point. That was like my first note was like this is like Batman. Like that's exactly. Gothamask. Yes. That's great. Yeah. There's no wonder that movie's good. That went for it. Because it's built on the Built on the bones of Hudsucker.

Yeah. It's true. I'm serious. No, I agree with you. It is funny, though, to think about it. We've talked so much about how bizarre it is that for like six years, the takeaway from the success of Batman was people love like art deco-pastiche. Right. ...films.

Rather than superhero movies, it was really like sort of nightmare dystopian cities, right? And that this is kind of like a throwback comedy building off of, I guess, people like this vibe, but yeah, by the time this comes out, a bunch of those other movies were already bombing. Oh, the shadow uses these buildings as well. Oh, sure. That makes sense. A great movie I just rewatched. And when you say pastiche, you mean an artistic work in a style that imitates that of another work, artist, or period, correct? Yeah. Why, hey, will you hand Mitch back its phone? It's not nice to keep it from him. He's having to recite things like this just off the top of my head, I know. I just rolled back in his head like a mentor. Incredible. So everyone was like,

came out, you read the reviews, and there was this early Cohen thing of like these guys are too good, right? In a way where like a lot of the old guard critical community was like, we get it. These guys are like technically perfect and they're so clever and they've seen a lot of movies and they read a lot of books

and all their stuff is really kind of like self-referential. It's really sort of like look at what we know and we're toying off the history of narrative and film and whatever it is. And I think it reached an apex with this, which is like they're getting studio money to build this sort of like reproduction of like these screwball comedies they grew up loving and uh and everyone's

complaint was like it is like technically incredible the production design on this thing the cinematography and all of it's like unbelievable but it's like in a hermetic glass case it has no feeling it's all ironic it's all distanced like it's all cynical it's all passionless which they've always pushed back against i think this is like arguably their single most sincere movie and in certain ways they're most like nakedly emotional but the other thing that I like push back on David's thinking that over. I'm not sure

about that but it's more sincere than people gave it credit at the time which is true of almost every Cohen movie I think that often there was a critical element that was kind of like we get it with your references and you're sort of like you know this is so self-aware and you know and I think that's often unfair. The thing that boggles

my mind is the people who are pushing back on them the most and I keep repeating this point but it's a thing you always see when like young people come out the gate with big hits where a certain percentage of the community will push back and being like, let's not anoint them as masters too quickly. Like, let them prove themselves before we start, like, elevating people too high.

Can I guess who was pushing back on it? A certain New York critic, Jay Sherman. Oh, you thought it stuck? He said it stunk. But everyone- Sherman thought it stinks. I don't know. This is my pushback on the pastiche thing.

is that people were like, oh, it's just them doing a Sturgis movie, or it's them doing a Preston, a Sturge's movie, or a Capra movie, or a Hawks movie. Like, people kept saying it's a different type of movie. Speaking of films that spanned, like, a 30-year stretch, what I actually think they're doing in this movie is, like, mashing up 50 years of film. This is basically the first five decades of, like, movie-making styles

all put together, which to me is what stops it from being a pastiche, where movies like this often feel airless if it's like the good German thing where Soderberg's like, I'm going to try to make it exactly as if I'm going to get the cameras from 1941 and study Casablanca and study the framing

and just redo this. And that becomes too much of a technical exercise. This movie is like, hear me out, kind of closer to Star Wars and that Lucas was sort of like, what do I take from like westerns and samurai films and three in legend

and like combined all these things together but because what the Coens are doing is just different decades of comedy I think it got smushed together to people of just they're riffing on one thing but they're actually picking and choosing from like different comedic movements in film in my opinion.

There's also like a commonality between this and Star Wars and the presence of Yadol. This is true. Yeah, Yadall's she's one of the board members. Yeah. In that scene where they see all the old white guys. Yeah, that'll kind of stick so.

Griffin, what was your way in for this movie? And at what point does it enter your personal top 10? Yeah, Cohen Brothers lover. No Country for All Man, I was like obsessed with, but that was sort of, it felt like a culmination of me getting into them for years and years and years and being like, this is a masterpiece, this is their like crowning achievement. In that, like, stupid 2007 competition, it felt like between like,

are you a no country guy or there will be blood guy I was it was my one fucking semester in film school and I was like so defensively stumping the real answer is Zodiac obviously hell yes wow yeah but I do I do have no country right up there

it's an incredible movie I think the year after that MoMA does a retrospective of all their movies up until that point and I go and see this and Barton Fink in the same day which at that point were maybe the only two I hadn't seen and it was a chance to see them in theaters and I was like oh I'm gonna see the weird one that no one likes and then after that I'm going to see the one that's like

their most critically beloved in a way and this screens first and truly from the first moment is one of my favorite openings in movies of just like you have silent title like seven title cards and then just like the music kicks in the most beautiful miniature shot with like just perfect little like microfiber snow and Bill Cobb going that's right New York wait is the first thing the suicide or is it Tim Robbins in front of the job board it's the suicide first thing the camera pushes the entire city yes yes yes yes to reveal him stepping out into the balcony then the clock goes backwards right right right right but then I think it first it's it's then it's Tim Robbins at the job board and then a hud sucker drops yes but I I truly I think from that moment was like holy shit what the fuck is that like felt chills and then walked out remember texting my dad I think this is one of my my 10 favorite movies of all time. Like, it was kind of an immediate love at first sight thing. Yeah, this is a very Griffin movie.

It's very Griffin movie. I mean, this does not surprise. I was going to say. That it's riffing on are like my favorite era of movies and comedies and aesthetics. And you wish like every woman was like, ha, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you want Jennifer Jason Lee. Like, that's your kind of lady.

Everything about this is like the world I want to live. You kind of wish everyone was like, ha. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Huh. Huh. Wait, I'm getting really turned on, David.

Keep doing that. But yeah, it was like, right, a thing I had put off scene for a while, because I was like, right, that's the weird left-handed one. I knew it also, right, as the one the Empire Magazine. So the world would be like, yeah, Hudsuckers, that's the weird one. It's the one no one liked. Going into the stinger. That's interesting that there hasn't been like a more in recent years reclamation of this movie. I think it has happened in the last time.

Okay, okay. I think it's become more accepted. It's like, yeah, they never made bad movies. The Metrograph Theater here in New York now screens it every holiday season. It's a good holiday movie. Within the week between Christmas and New Year's. And that feels like there is some mild canonization happening. I did not realize it was a Christmas New Year's movie when I was first going into it.

I always put forward that it's like this and Harry Metzalley are the two best New Year's movies because there aren't a lot of good New Year's movies. No. What are other good New Year's? Well, New Year's Day, obviously. Two Great Marshall. Two great New York movies. The great New York movies. Yeah.

Strange days at New Year's? Strange days. Strange days for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes any kind of turn of the millennium movie is sort of secretly a New Year's movie. Rudolph shiny New Year.

That's yeah, that's, I think that, yeah, it's definitely, to me, that's a New Year's movie. Little Baby New Year, big years. Griff, this does seem like such a, such a U movie in many ways. Like, I could see people walking to this movie being very confused. by it back in the day and it feels like it could be a divisive movie and also just the fact that it is like an alternate it feels weirdly even still watching it feels weirdly modern even though of course it's whatever the it is I also like I think in a certain way culture is caught up to this movie like this is them combining the vibes of the 1900s through the 1950s

into a movie in the 1990s that was a little prescient about like corporate culture that has only grown since then. Sure. It feels like this film is, in certain ways, a reaction to them trying to make sense of how to be personal artists within, like, a massive industry. Like, I think the oddly personal aspect of this film, beyond it just being, like, the two of them and Sam Ramey, being like, what's the kind of movie we love? What's the kind of thing that would be so much fun to make is also, like, the idea of

trying to make something pure within this like huge lumbering machinery is like trying to convince a board to sell a hula hoop, which is like standing up and being like, you know, and like there's sand inside. So I'm looking at New Year's movies. The problem is a lot of them are Christmas movies and that doesn't count. To me, if you're more of a Christmas movie, you don't count. But I do think Phantom Thread gets the New Year's title. Oh, yeah.

Because it's got an iconic New Year's party. Yeah. That has become kind of like, I feel like people are always posting a picture of it. I agree with that. I don't know, man. Ghostbusters 2 is a New Year's movie. It is. Oh, wow. Okay. Can I say another one that doesn't isn't technically a New Year's movie, but I do

think it is a New Year's movie? Go ahead. Gremlins, too. They're in the lobby and they're singing in New York, New York, and they're doing a countdown, but it's not really New Year's Eve. But it's New Year's coded. It's New Year's coded. Yes. Because Gremlin's one is Christmasy, right? Yes, yeah. Gremlin's one's explicitly

Christmas. Right. Here's, I think, a reason why I love this so much as a New Year's movie, it starts with Tim Robbins about to jump at 1155, right? And Bill Cobb just being like, a week ago, this guy was the head of a company. How has he fallen so low that he's about to kill himself? And the movie comes back around to this guy, like, getting the girl at 1205, right? Like, it's a movie about for me that feeling I always have on New Year's that is just like the idea of the highest highs and the lowest lows.

Yes. Like this forced kind of like introspection and retrospection combined with this notion of like a hope of something great happening. I'll just say for me, my way into this movie was Mitch talked about it being a

blockbuster film. My parents rented this when I was a kid. And I watched this well no. We like, well, I guess it worked

and the they did rent it. I'm saying that yeah, the cover worked. Yeah. No, you're correct.

I thought you were saying something different. The movie did not work on me as a kid because I was just baffled by it. Did your parents like it? I remember my parents laughing at it

and me not understand. what was going on and just being like this movie is weird. Why are they talking like this? Your parents didn't like it either? No, my parents did like it. They were there. They enjoyed the movie. But like I revisited this movie in adulthood and was like, oh wait, I

actually really like this and I've watched it a few times since. And again, I've mentioned my wife really loves this movie. So like, but it is kind of it's unmooring as a viewer. Like if you don't know what you're getting into, you're unsettled. That sounds like that's what you're

viewing was Mitch for a little bit I mean like I was I was shocked at what I was watching I had I just knew nothing about it and I did not I had I had no idea what it was about at all so it was it was a lot to take in also do you think your parents will regret showing you that movie when you jump out of the podcast building in like 10 years or whatever when you pull a hud sucker when we're in head gum Dubai or where the hell we are getting like blood some there's some like withered of a, you know, headgum hunk and you're, like, getting his blood put into you.

Do you remember when he saw it for the first? Yeah, college. A hundred percent. It was college. DVD? Yes. Well, there was a little service called Love Film. I brought, I wrote this up before. But it was the Britain's Netflix before Netflix bought it and consumed it.

But it was the original U.K. You know, the old disc. You get the discs in the mail. And I was already obsessed with the Coens. And so I was filling in my gaps. I 100% remember. like and just love at first sight watching it on my little 10 inch TV by my bed. I watched a lot of great movies there.

I mean, I had the miraculous thing of getting to see it projected on film for the first time. And then I bought it on DVD and was like obsessively showing it to people. And I had to keep being like, you can't imagine how good this looks. Like as good as it looks on a 10 inch screen, it's one of those movies where you're like, the effects actually hold up the better resolution. You see it in versus a lot of movies of this era. where you're like, it actually benefits from watching in lower-res. Do you think this is the most, I wrote this down and I'm asking you guys, because you're

experts, is this the most like kind of Lynchian Cohen Brothers movie or Terry Gilliam kind of there's definitely some Gilliam in there. Yeah, it's interesting. The lynchy thing, I mean, I feel like Lynch and the Coens are both similarly obsessed with, like, old eras of speaking, right? Like, the time-specific, era-specific dialects. And that part of it, I think, evoke something. Like, Lynch movies will have one character show up and talk like this.

Yeah. And also, I mean, the bellboy at time, like, the elevator boy seems like kind of like a nightmare sequencey at some point. You know what? Barton Fink is very, is very, yeah. That's the, fucking of the elevator boy. So much to me, though, felt when I was watching this, I was like, Barton Fink seems so much more in the real world than this feels.

Sure. Which is true. It is. You're right. It's actually more about, like, reality than this is. No, I mean, like, if we're looking for, no, no, I was just going to say, if we're going to look at director as a point of comparison, to me, and maybe it's just, it's just because a Batman is right there.

But I just, it feels like a Tim Burton film a lot of ways, especially like, like, it's just such a broad arch morality play and then just with some light fantastical elements that also exists in a time and place that's both specific but non-specific that doesn't actually exist. Well, it's what I love about the opening, beyond it being such a beautiful shot and the score being so great and whatever,

but the opening line of the movie being, that's right, which I just find so funny as a joke to start a movie with a response to a thing that wasn't like cast, and then just saying like, that's right, New York City, which is basically the movie pointing

and being like, you need to accept that this is New York City. This does not look like reality. We're in like Fantasia, I'm never going to see the sun in a weird sort of way. There's no, like, a baseline normalcy that this movie is going to veer off from. We're starting in, like, a fairy tale picture book world. Elevator board, of course, Jim True Frost.

Everyone know Jim True Frost or am I the only wire fan here? Oh, he's in the wire. He's Prez. Oh, my God. Oh, wait. That's wild. He's also buzzed and he's got the fuzz and he makes the elevator do what she does. That's right.

That's, wow. It's funny because him on the wire, I know you haven't watched the wire, I've not, I've been too busy watching Greg the Bunny Yeah, right. On the wire he plays like a kind of a soft-spoken squarely cop who's bad at his job. Like he does not play a guy who's like, hey

man, boss, how you know it? Like it's like it's funny to see him doing this. I knew I knew him and I like overly drawn out and like kind of sluggish on the wire. He's really good. It's a great in that. Yeah. Season four of the wires is the Greg the Bunny perspective, Griff. So it's a good crossover if you want to watch.

I, when Sean Baker won all the Oscars for Inora, I was like, I should go back and watch Greg the Bunny because it's so incongruous that he created Greg the Bunny. And it's so funny to think back to like that's where he was 20 years ago and now he's like the King of Indy Cinema. And then I rewatched the full season of Greg the Bunny and realized, oh, he had nothing to do with the Fox show. He and the other guy created for cable access. And then that guy developed it for Fox. And I was like, well, I just watched 13 episodes. Greg the Bunny for no reason. He was hanging out with it. It's okay.

I think everyone said that when they watched Greg the Bunny, so you're not alone. Stephen Levittan did it for Fox. Well, he was the old hand they brought in with Dan Milano who was the co-creator and the puppeteer and then Dan Milano becomes a robot chicken guy.

Okay. Yeah. I just completed the entire Greg Bunny family tree. I made sense of how it came into existence. Thank you. John Harkness, critic, writing for sight and sound in 1994 when this film came out, reviewed this movie in a real, like, I'm going to reveal that the emperor has no clothes. These guys are like all flash and no substance. His headline was The Sphinx Without a Riddle.

Sure. But they describe the movie. This is really weird, pern. Yes. He describes the movie as Norville Barnes is a Preston Sturge's hero, trapped in a Frank Capra story and never the Twain shall meet, especially not in a world that seems to have been created by Fritz Lang. Right. And it's getting at your mashup idea.

Right. That he's like, it's two different styles of like a kind of Hollywood drama D and Hollywood pure like screwball comedy in a sort of dystopian, almost German expressionist relic of an idea of city building and world building. Right. And then he also says, obviously, the Jennifer Jason Lee character is like a Howard Hawks character. And his whole read is that the movie's mashup is fundamentally wrong because you can't put a Sturge's character in a crap. You can't just take all these things and put them together.

I get that. He's also like they're incompatible worldviews. But I think he misidentified it. I think this movie not to get too eggheady is capra character in a Sturge's world. His argument is the character's too cynical in a world that's too pure. Yeah, no. And it's the other way around. He's a sweetie pie.

Right. my first my first my first word of advice this guy is chill out nerd agree you gotta chill out is he still alive I don't even unfortunately he's passed away he's passed away all right well chill out rest in peace and chill out I there's

you're like even no matter what even if you have like some of these complaints or something like there's no denying that this movie looks beautiful and is like it's funny there was stuff when I was watching it when I first saw Jennifer Jason Lee doing her thing and I was like this is a really big performance

and as movie went on I was like this is great it's what this is what the world is I'm accepting it for what it is reviews at the time and people really singled her out as like sure bombs the whole thing oh that's not fair they let her do this voice yeah they're like

she came in for the audition and had the voice and we were like yeah why wouldn't she do that voice this character wouldn't make sense yeah this character would be dumb if she didn't talk exactly thank God she like prepped this yes it is big I mean when I first when I was first seeing it I was like this is this is big but everything is It's a, I don't know,

it's a pretty astonishing performance. Yeah, on a technical level, it is insane. Who's your fave? Who's everyone's fave? Well, my, my stack cast. My whole thought about it when I first saw it and she was being really big and then when it comes around

and she like humanizes the character and, you know, like, what's his name? Who's the Robbins, who's a hayseed is kind of like, you put on this attitude and then at the end you kind of see it breaking, but she's still remaining the same character. You're like, that is a good performance. There's no denying that. I think she is the best performance in the movie.

She is certainly my nominee, yes. That's your one nomination? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got it's supporting or lead? Supporting. Can I tell you I think it's number one? I think Yaddle is probably the best.

He is good. I mean, she's, this is a hotness conversation, obviously now. There is, uh, number one. James Urbaniak. And Bill Cobbs number two. Friend of the show. Uh, past a future guest. James Urbaniac, the great James Rubi.

Who is, who's capable of going, ha, if you want. This is a shared favorite movie of ours, and every time we hang out, we just, like, talk about this movie again, because we've always... He could be, he could plot, you could plop him right into this movie. He'd be great. It would fit perfectly. Yeah. And he always points out, it's one of his, he says it's one of his favorite moments of, like, performance he's ever seen. There is the scene where Tim Robbins is explaining what he imagines, uh, Amy Archer looks like, right? When he's, like, talking trash about her. Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

after she's published the slam piece and he's like, she's probably one of those women who's gotten infected with the cultural idea that she doesn't need a man or whatever it is. And she starts to get flustered

like it's clearly kind of getting to her where she wants him to be attracted to her even if it's only a version of her that he doesn't know, whatever, right? And she has this moment where she says like, well, maybe she's one of those women who cares more about her work than her exterior appearance.

But with her hands, while she's saying work, she gestures to her hair and makeup. And when she says personal appearance, she mimes writing a piece. Oh, right. Yes. Yeah. Like writing down and like on a typewriter. And it's such a funny inversion. It's great. Yeah, she's great in this. My, I mean, my other secret favorite in this is Charles Durning, who I think is unbelievable. He's so funny in that, you know, in the outfit too. I love his little halo. All of it. But like when we in the straight story episode, you were saying, is there an argument to be made for Harry Dean Stanton getting an Oscar nomination? for saying one line, 30 seconds at the end of the film

because of how well he does it. The first time I saw this movie when I didn't think Charles Durning was coming back, he's third billed in the opening credits and then immediately jumps out a window. I was like, he earned that billing just for the silent contemplation of the suicide. My favorite is...

He kind of goes into, like, Usain Bolt, like into his stance where he's about to, you know, go. He nails the comeback, but... He maybe is my favorite. The amount is a hilarious looking person. He is one of my... I am not trying to body shame Charles Durning. But God bless that body of his.

Well, so he has this, like, great dance background. Right. We talked about a recent episode that I shamefully have never seen Bessel O'Hour House in Texas but watch his number all the time. But he's got dance training. And you see in like the way... And also, he like, to be clear, fought on Omaha Beach. Like, and I'm like, funny body old there, Durning.

Like, he's like a war hero. He's like, front lines of D-Day. There's an incredible YouTube video of Tom Hanks' introducing him at a D-Day anniversary event. He fought on Omaha Beach in World War II. Okay. I don't know if it was another effie business. I've been to, I've also fighting a person, fighting some guy.

Not during war. It'd be funny if I was like, I was out of Omaha Beach. You know, get some rage. What's the, isn't there some movie where there's a joke? Oh, no, it's the S&L goodbye Saigon sketch where Will Ferrell keeps having the Vietnam flashbacks. And one of the other characters is like, he served and they were like, no, he just went to Vietnam and vacation. vacation.

Did anything bad happen? I think he lost his luggage. I have a boring. Like a true war hero. He's one of my favorites, but I do have a boring answer. My favorite lemonade maker. Yeah, Mr. Newman. He's just so good.

It's a joy to see a great like that, a titan, like be a silly guy. And just also agree to do this, which is kind of amazing. And this is that era where like... And he's hot, by the way. Oh, my God, he takes his shot off. We got the shirt off. A shirt off for the fucking massage. It's insane.

It's insane how handsome that guy was up until his dying day. And probably still looks pretty fucking. Is he the 70s here? Let's dig him on. We're going to dig him up. We can see how he looks. He was born in 1925. So he would have been like about 70.

Like, about hitting 70 soon. He, like, he's getting the massage shirtless. And then he stands up and just, you know. Set the towel around him or whatever. My torso has never looked that good in my life. Nick looks fucking incredible. Come on, you know, you look good. That's nice of you to say, Mitch, right?

I'm going to look like fucking Paul Newman. Nick is looking good. By the way, I've been in the room with Nick before, but never for the podcast. But Nick's looking good. Nick's looking good. By the way, you know what he's looking good? Mitch is looking good. Well, I already told Mitch he's looking pretty good.

But I got to say on Mike that Mitch is looking pretty good. It's too kind, but look, Nick, I think it's only fair. By the way, quickly, anything you want to say about David, Mike? David, Griff. You guys are looking good. In fact, I'll put it in terms. think you like more man uh wags uh i think you should take your shirt off i think we should see how this isn't a video podcast let's see if you've got 70 something newman's energy people will just have

to take us at our work uh no newman is he's a babe it's that era of newman where i feel like in the 80s if what like you know he he gets all serious i mean he was always a very serious actor right but he's playing like these really and then in the 90s it's like what if If I'm, like, a rascal, you know, like, nobody's fool, right? These movies where it's like, everyone loves old blue-eyed Newman, right? Like, so, like... But that's this run of, like, him playing a grump or, like, the verdict where it's like a guy who's kind of lost his way.

Well, he's fucked up in the verdict. And then Color of Money, it's sort of like, you know, he's hot. Like, let's just, like, still admit that he's, like, a haughty. But this is him playing, like, an absolute cartoon villain. It is so funny to see him not be an anti-hero, not be a guy who's, like, sort of at odds with himself, but just like a cartoonishly evil person. And they talk about that they were just like, don't try to find any depth in this. Right.

This is the same year as nobody's fool. Right. Wow. It's a good movie. Play it real, but like do not try to humanize this guy. Don't try to find a core of what animates him. He is an evil businessman who likes being evil and smoking cigars. He's great.

He's so good. He's so good. He is probably my MVP. And I do hope that blank check can get a nod from the Newman estate to dig him up. so we can see how we should take them up. He probably looks good. Can we get like a sub license from them to label this a Newman's own podcast? Fuck, guys.

He was cremated. Fuck. Disaster. Oh, here's a real question. I bet those ashes look pretty good. Let's dig him up. Did they donate his eyes to science? I don't think so.

I'm sorry. They burned the eyes? Jerry Orbach, you know, is the famous eye donor. Yeah. Do you guys know this that Jerry Orbach donated his eyes? And for years in New York City, there'd be Subway ads promoting Oregon Donorship.

A true New York legend to be clear, Jerry Orbach, one of the great New Yorkers. But they would just have these big ads that were like Jerry Orbach's headshot and it would say like he gave his eyes to science. That's wild. I think my eyes are a little too tiny for science. I don't know if they were.

I've got very tiny eyes. So maybe they would like to study them, I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Worth preserving. Newman only did. You've seen some things.

Excluding cars. He only did four films after this year. year. So after this, nobody's fool is this same year? And he gets an Oscar nomination for nobody's fool. You're counting that as one of the four? Yeah, so I'm saying after. Then it's where the money is. He did do that.

Road to Perdition. Yeah, that was his final film role on screen. Right. Cars is amazing. Right. Last theatrical release. He's a voice of a fucking car in cars. He's really good. Excuse me. He's the voice of the car. He's a judge. Show him some respect. He is a judge.

Yeah. But he's also, he won like the old. Cup, right? Cars could say multitudes. What do you mean? You can't limit him to one profession. He was 83 years old.

The fourth movie he made was Message in a bottle, right? Well, you've only named three of the live actions. Message in a bottle, indeed. Message in a bottle, nobody's full. Where the money is. No, no, I'm not counting nobody's full. Okay, so then where the money is?

Message in a bottle, and you're forgetting Twilight. Sexy thriller Twilight. I always think Twilight was earlier. Yeah, it's Hackman and Newman. being sexy together two sexy 70-somethings yeah and probably like burly chests

in that movie yeah you know and like wiry chest I've never seen Twilight I've never seen Twilight I've never seen Twilight I've seen I've seen one scene from Twilight many times there is a famous nude scene in Twilight she is Paul Newman shows sack no it's Rees Witherspoon

has one scene I've studied extensively never seen Twilight that's also Robert Paul Newman shows off the twins. Benton did nobody's fool with them and he did Twilight with them. Yeah.

There's a story because Leah Schreiber's in that one scene I've seen many times and he has a story about Paul Newman, Joanne Woodward visiting him on set

and walking away when they were getting ready to take, do a take, and he just looks at her and then looks back to Leo Schreiber and goes, what an ass on her.

Oh my God. Joanne Newman? Yeah. Joanne Woodberg. Yeah. And Sider was like, this is like rules that this guy

still so fucking horny for his wife. He's like, come on, Leah, if you want to take a piece of that. But he was like, respectfully as if he was looking at the Mona Lisa, look at that ass. God, he should have won an Oscar for saying that. Yeah. Just for that line off. Yeah, he's the best. Our buddy. Now my wife's going to be like, you never say anything about that like that for about me. Why aren't you talking about me to Leah F. Striber? Describing my ass to other men. Your impression of your wife. He's a Southern? I didn't realize your wife.

like owned a story in Mississippi. The, our buddies, the big picture just did, at the time we're recording this very recently, did a Paul Newman. They did. They did an anniversary. Centennial. Yes, right. And they talked about the fact that he was an alcoholic until his like 60s.

Oh, wow. That he was like a case of beer or six martini as a night guy. Oh my God. And that's what they're saying. For a guy who drank that much for that many decades, there is no period of time in which he looked bad. Not only is there never like a where you're like, oh, you're like three years

where he's really bloated, but it didn't even catch up to him when he was old. Some people just have that, they can just do it. They can just do that every night, and it doesn't affect him. I don't know how they find him. He might have been the most beautiful man in the history of movies. He's up there. Yes, he's the best-looking movie star of all time.

I really think so. I think doing his filmography is a really great way to experience, like, how Hollywood changed. Yes. For, you know, for over the course of, like, four decades. And it's not like he made the best movies of all time, although we made a lot of really good ones but it's there it is very

very fun to watch a Paul Newman movie like just pick one like you'll have a good time Paul Newman is kind of a Forrest Gump figure that you can track the progression of American movies from the 1950s to the 2000s through like it all kind of happens either he's in reaction

response ahead of the curve I'm mostly talking about cars. Yeah well he was miles ahead in that movie he was um but you all seen cars yeah I've seen cars Is this the animated Pixar's movie?

Pixar's cars That's real Are they going to do a Disney live action Recreation? They should. Oh, that would be so good. And they shouldn't talk. It feels like the only one

That they should do a live action version. Just get some cars. Yeah, slap some eyes on them. Well, no, you know how like when they They'll show like, oh, here's the live action cast of the Little Mermaid and you're like, they made like Sebastian look like a real crab.

Right. Fonder looked like a real fish. They should literally just get real cards not put eyes and mouths on them. I love that. Drive them around. Except for Mader. He is Larry the cable guy painted.

Right. Just. Painted and mounted. Paul Newman is one of these guys who like really his career kind of charts the death of the traditional studio system, right? And like New Hollywood where he's like thought of as sort of part of this younger group of movie stars that he actually predated. But he didn't really come into his own. until the old system was breaking down and he was kind of the countercultural old guy

and even to the like degree that he like embraced going gray earlier and sort of became this like aspirational figure for a countercultural movement who was a little bit ahead of them and this feels like him making a movie of everything that movies were right before he really figured out his career in a way where you're like he was 10 years too young to have played like the Tim Robbins character in a movie like this

and now he has come all the way back around to playing the old grumpy guy. Yeah, and the thing referencing those kinds of movies. That's really interesting. I never thought about it in those terms but it's like, it's fascinating that a guy whose name is Paul Newman to our generation was always thought of

as an old man. He's an old man. Nick, that's a great thought. That is so smart and interesting. David, what? This episode of Blank Check with Griffin, David, a podcast about filmographies, is brought to you by booking.com. Booking. Yeah.

I mean, that's what I was about to say. Booking dot, yeah, from vacation rentals to hotels across the U.S. Booking.com. Booking dot, yeah. Has the ideal stay for anyone, even those who might seem impossible to please. God, I'm trying to think of anyone in my life. Perhaps even in this room. Ben, who's, like, what's an example of someone I know who,

maybe has a very particular set of demands. If you're bringing me in and there's only one other person in the room. There is one other person in the room right now. I think this is so rude. I sleep easy. I'm definitely not someone who insists on 800 thread count sheets. No, that's an example of a fussy person. But people have different demands.

And you know what? If you're traveling, that's your time to start making demands. Maybe you've got a partner whose sleep light rise early or maybe, you know, like you just want someone who wants a pool or wants a view or I don't know. Maybe I'm traveling and I need a room with some good soundproofing because I'm going to be doing some remote pod record. Sure. Maybe you're in Europe and you want to make sure. That's very demanding to be in Europe.

You got air conditioning. Well, I can think of one person in particular, although it's really both of you. Yes. You got to have air conditioning. I need air conditioning if I'm in the North Pole. Look, if I can find my perfect stay on booking. Mm-hmm. Anyone can.

Booking.com is definitely the easiest way to find exactly what you're looking for. Like for me, a non-negotiable is I need a gorgeous bathroom for selfies. You do. You love selfies. As long as I got a good bathroom mirror for selfies, I'm happy with everything else. Look, they're, again, they're specifying like, oh, maybe you want a sauna or a hot tub, and I'm like, sounds good to me. Yeah. Please.

Can I check that box? You want one of those in the recordings, do that'd be great. you want to start you want to be I'll be in the sauna when we were recording I was going to say you want to be

the Dalton Trumbo a podcast you want to be splish splash and it would be good if I had a sauna and a cold plunge and while recording

I'm on mic but you just you're going back and like ha like as I moved to the these are the kinds of demands that booking.com

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dot com book today on the site or in the app. Booking.com. Booking.com. Booking. Yeah. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for

you, no matter the size. Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus, IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. shop now at ikea.ca you guys are the doughboys this is true i do feel like he is the gold standard for lemonade for like a supermarket lemonade you are not i mean my introduction of newman is

newman's own lemonade probably was his was it did not begin with the dressing it began with salad dress yeah that was the empire was built on salad dressing some guy was like he got a bottle of this stuff, Paul. Like, I mean, I don't know how good this. He was his personal recipe. He was probably trying to, like, get a threesome going with him and Joanne where he's like, salad dressing's great. Can I stay the night? Like, but, uh, because I don't know

who it was, but I know, no, no, what he would do is he would, he would give people salad dressing. It was his version of the Tom, he'd be like, I'm coming to your house. Yeah, she had some salad dressing. Except he actually made it. Right. He had a good recipe. But right, like, did he then go like, maybe we should, I don't know, lemons, sugar.

What do you guys think? You know, like, he was already doing, like, hole in the wall gang. Like, he was one of the most, like, philanthropic movie stars even before that point. Obviously, the charity stuff is great. I'm just saying, like, the lemonade's actually good. The lemonade is good. The Newman's, the Newman products are. They're generally pretty good.

His frozen pizza is good. I was going to say, I love his frozen pizza. This frozen pizza is great. You guys had us on to do a Tombstone pizza episode during the lockdown. That's right. And when we're talking different frozen pizza brands, I said that, for my money is the best frozen pizza on the market. And I stand by it. It's way up there.

It's really, like the four cheese. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And the end the cured pepperoni. I don't know if I've had that well you gotta we could do an we could do an episode on Newman's own I mean we've never tackled yeah I guess it's a big universe you need to eat a lot of salad though because I feel like they got like a ton of bottles got a lot of dress I'm out unless you just chug that now you're getting me back in I'll chug the I'll chug the I'll chug the dressing

shots of it but that is like a company that now four decades in is still all pre post tax revenue goes to charity yeah pretty great all of it yeah kind of amazing Yeah, he's great. Good for him. And Ryan Reynolds has the same setup for Mint Mobile, right? Yeah, yeah. All of that goes to do. Oh, that's great. Good for him. You know what, Ivan? You know what? Charity is suing Justin Baldoni, right? That's what he, big charities. Do you know, you know a brand I love too? I don't know if you guys had this, uh, Yaddle zone. Have you guys had Yaddle zone?

Did you hear, this is crazy because I heard on set, there was a moment. Kiadi Mundi has told the story. Yeah. Of that there was a moment where, uh, where Yoda turned to him while Yadal I was walking away and said, ass on her checkout. I heard that. I heard that. Weiger did that as the crucified guy again.

He put his arms out like the crucified guy. Did you hear Coyote Monday on Jay Moore's podcast? He was telling some crazy stories. Because I think that's where that clip came from. It was. And he was just talking about all his former co-stars. So happy Jay Moore has a podcast. Yeah.

I never realized that Satsy Tin was a different. it to poppers. Yeah. And it's crazy that he still is like so on point. Like you watch that movie. He doesn't miss a mark. Well, basically he was one of the like like when you call action. He's just in it.

He just suddenly loved it. Right, right. And there are people who work like that, you know. So you guys see that tweet that was like Bill Simmons like watching Phantom or doing a, you know, where he's like kind of like subalba? Yeah. Like that was. Like just like 10 minutes.

It's like, I kind of like subalba. What do you guys think? Spalba's got to come back. I want to bring this up because... Sebalba? I want to, yeah, I want to bring something. I love subalba. Me too.

Sebalba is a great character. Like his sportsmanship and his general kind of like on-field demeanor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also his personal life. Yeah, it aligns with my sports team in my life and how I treat things. I wanted to bring this up because we're, like, just like Newman's own, where we come from a food podcast. We're sandwich guys, I guess. Yeah, we're sandwich guys.

Don't boys, is almost a term I would use. That is sad that we are just sandwich guys. I guess when you boil it down, we're fucking sandwich guys. And I went to the Nighthawk Cinema. Oh, yeah, that's right. The other day, yes. I saw. How was the accountant two?

The accountant two is like very, it's very, it's a fun movie. It's not a great movie, but it is like, it's fun. John Berenthal is having fun in the movie and, uh, and it's fun. to not be insensitive here, I'm trying to put this a good way, but Affleck is playing it more like someone who's on the spectrum in two than he was in one, which is kind of strange.

Right. In one, it's, I feel like a very thin gloss of like, that's his superpower. Yes. And in two, you're like, oh,

he's like, you're really seeing more of the side that he's like on this, which is strange. He's going full bazinga. He's going, he's going, he's going full bazinga. He is.

Griff, thank you for putting it into a good term. I'm trying to think, like, what is the most sensitive way? That is 100%. Hollywood autism is actually. Yeah, right. He's really doing it. And just you guys gave me some suggestions on things to get there. And I, it's just a great.

They got that interesting new sandwich, which you ordered, right? I, I, I, I, I, I didn't. You got the tendies. I got the tendies. Did you like the tendies? I thought the tendies were fantastic. Wow. I thought that were really awesome, we talking about.

They had a great, I think it was like a dill ranch, or I think it was buttermilk ranch, but there was a strong dill flavor to it. It was, it was cornflake crust. The cornflake crusted chicken tenders because I wanted to get popcorn too, so a sandwich, I was like, you get the regular, the nighthawk popcorn. I went with your suggestion. I got the nighthawk popcorn.

That season's unbelievable, right? I'm gonna, if a citric acid, a little bit of salt, yeah. If someone gives me a food suggestion, I'm gonna eat it. Wags will know that's true. I got the firewalk with me cocktail. My favorite cocktail there, for sure. You said one of the best cocktails in the city. A frozen tequila cocktail.

He said that. I do like it a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a good time, a little, weirdly, a little chatty. The theater was a little bit chatty. Yeah, we apologize for that. Yeah, so, yeah, yeah. A movie like The accountant, too, I guess you can't really hope for a totally

sort of devoted audience. I mean, you guys, Griffin, Griffin Sims were sitting behind me and I was eating and they're like, I think he likes it. Like, that's them, just. They got the sandwich though, which I was, I was recommending to you, even though I think the attendees was the better option. Yeah. You're coming off of a big food day.

Yes. But they got a celery root pastrami sandwich right now that is like curing celery root in the style of pastrami. Okay. With that seasoning on multi-grain with like the onions and it's it's it's a vegetarian sandwich? It's a fully veggie sandwich. Wow. Yeah. I think it's even vegan.

Wow. Yeah. That place it rules. It's such a cool. It's wild to me that Los Angeles doesn't have. I mean, we have a lot. Look, we're spoiled in a lot of different. ways, but there's nothing that checks

the same box. The cool bar in there and everything, it's really great. Yeah, there is an Alamo in L.A., but it's you know, there's one of them. And I feel like he hasn't gone over that well in L.A. It's in an interest, like it's in downtown. It's right above a train stop, but, you know, which is nice.

It's like directly upstairs from, from metro stop, but for people who are used to driving there, it's a pretty inconvenient place to park. Nighthawk has two locations in New York, I think they kind of are what Alamo was in Texas 30 years ago. And then obviously when these things, it's what you guys talk about all the time. But when they scale up to become chains, you start having to make these like strategic concessions and tightenings.

And I think they've done as good of a job in a certain ways as you can of still making things feel like cool and personal. But Nighthawk still has that like, right, it's close enough to the ground. It's right. It's like, yeah, nice local business. Right. And the Alamo, like, you'll be watching a movie and you're like, all aboard, you know, you hear like the train, you know, the conductor yelling off with the train.

Yeah, it is weird that the L.A. Metro is steam train. We keep it old school. I've still never ridden the L.A. Metro I want to. Wow. You're ever out there? That's weird because you're out there all the time. I've been to Los Angeles several times in my life. When was the last time?

2019 or 2018? Like before the pandemic. The D-line right now, which is... So it was right before you went to Wuhan? Sorry, go on next. I was tending to my pangolin farm. Is that what they're called? I forget it.

Formerly the Purple Line is closed for 70 days right now as of this recording because 70 days is a very specific amount of days. It is. The New York City subway is kind of like, I don't know, spring. Like they tend to be pretty chill about it. Okay, it's closed for 70 days. That's a span they gave us. The ring times 10.

Yeah. I said 70 days, but the city announced it as the ring times 10. Because they know it's movie lovers. It's Hollywood. It's Hollywood. It's Cinseltown. But it's extending the D line all the way west from downtown. And it will actually, there will be a stop directly below the Academy Museum.

Oh, wow. That's fine. Which is kind of a rad place for it. The D is the purple line. Yes. Yeah, yeah. The D is the purple line. Yeah.

Fairfax and Woolshire. See, when they do renovations here in the city, it is like three out of every five Tuesdays for the next seven years, the train will be on fire. Like that long Have you written the subway yet Nick? I'm excited for you to ride the New York Out here? No, I've not gotten a chance you do But I will today But have you ever written this?

I'll have written it. Of course, yeah No, yeah. Every time I'm in New York I just want you. My daughter is getting really into the subway because I've been pushing it so hard. Does she have a favorite line? Well, the three train, which is sort of our train. Got it, yeah. But she's very intent on me taking the seven train and like, or oh, she wants to take it too.

It's not near us. But so I have to take a picture of the seven. I have to start taking pictures of every train or ride so I can show her. My friend who's got Alex Perlin, the great off mentioned, Alex Perlin, who has a son about your daughter's age, they live off the seven train. And he's similarly public transit obsessed. But he's like, it is the best line to live off of with a train obsessed kid because it just basically goes back and forth. Yeah, that's true. like controlled number of stops

and most of it's above ground. Above ground you can so it's really scenic, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this of Trinity. I think it's a great line. You're reminding me of something. Can I pitch this to you?

There's a new, there's a new scary movie coming out. And I was on the fat guy chain and we were pitching this around. But, uh, you know, but it should clarify that the fat guy chain is, it's a group of friends that are talking to group. Sorry, yeah, John Gabris,

Stavros and, uh, and Zach Sherry. We're all, we're all on the fact guy chain. three of the grades we have a blast in there um but you know there's a new scary movie coming out and we were saying like you know like a ring good ring thing is like the curse tape is uh it's rust it's just uh it's a copy for us pretty good and then all alec baldwin crawls out of the tv at the like at some point in the movie we're saying that's that's that's what i was thinking but uh i want to pitch this to the wanes i don't know how you i don't know if you can just pitch a specific bit to the wayns brothers i think they're blankies so i think if you just they're definitely blankie probably the best way to do it just to do what you just... All right, great. So, all right, it's in. They're brainstorming six now. They signed a deal to come back or do Scary Movie Six.

Yes, yeah. No, I'm saying, he's saying they're back. Yeah, yeah. This is, I want this in the, I want the, I want the curse. They're going to talk about Anora. Yeah. I'm trying to think of like what scary movie will go after. That's the thing.

Like, scary movie four has like 20 minutes on Brokeback Mountain. Yes. I'm sure, but it's sure it's aged very well, too. I guess there'll be a lot of sinners. Sinners will, like, sinners will be prime for... Do you think they've been throwing, pencils at the ceiling with a completely blank dry eraseboard

for six months and then sinners came out the amount of pussy eating alone laptop keyboards on fire here we go okay all right so I'm going to open the dossier realizing we're going all over the place but we do have a dossier here and I do need to of course edify you to something

you may already know which is that Joel Cohen and Sam Ramey are longtime friends who met working as an editor for Edna Ruth Paul in New York when they were young, you know, up-and-comers. Joel Cohen cuts his teeth doing low-budget horror as an editor, assistant editor and one of those movies he happens to work on. He basically talks about like one of them was never released.

Right. Two of them have been forgotten forever. Right. And the other one was the evil dead. Uh, correct. It was one film called Fear No Evil, another one he got fired from called Nightmare and one called The Evil Dead. A good movie.

And basically that's the last time he edits for anyone else. But it, like, that relationship, him meeting him, like, it all starts to come together. Their career starts to roll. So they were pals, and obviously this is the only, this is the only Coen Brothers film that Ramey has a writing credit on, right? Well, the Coens have a writing credit, of course, on Crime Wave, which Ramey ends up directing, and then this is the opposite. Right.

But this is, in this early period, they write these two scripts together. Yes. And then Ramey directs one, the Coens direct one. Yeah, because this is written in, like, the 80s, right? Okay. Written about 1985, around the same time they wrote the XYZ murders, which is eventually what crime wave is. Ostensibly, they just were like,

we will set it in a sort of mythical 50s, not a real 50s, and we wanted everything to be sort of fable-like. So things like the Hulu Hoop and the Frisbee did get invented in the 50s, I guess. The Hulu Hoop has existed since, like, the Stone Age. but like the fad was in the WAMO is the toy company that has the trademark or whatever on

popularizing the two things in the 50s and they were just like we're going to do no research into the actual thing. The thing with the straw they did no research to that. I don't know what the straw was invented. That they pulled out of their asses but they it's this big thing when people were like critiquing the movie at the time where they were like

we don't think this is an homage. It's like us being like we love these types of movies. Why don't people make movies like this anymore rather than being like let's try to reconstruct one as tribute. And they said, and I just think it's so smart, and I think it speaks to the underlying sincerity of this movie. The way they land on Hula Hoop was they were like,

we want to build a comedy around something that sounds so silly that everyone in the reality of the movie would mock it, and yet the audience knows, of course, this is going to work. And something like the Hula Hoop, which we've all grown up with as a given, if you try to imagine someone pitching it, you're like, everyone would be like, what the fuck are you talking about? And so many of their movies, especially the thrillers, but the comedies as well, they're really smart in story construction of building things around the audience being a step or two ahead of the characters.

They don't quite know what they're getting into, and then what makes the cone so great, is that usually we're waiting for what we assume will be the blow up, and then they zag it and take it slightly off kilter of where you expect the outcome's going to go. And this is a comedy with that inherent tension built in, which is like, you're ready for this guy to fail. But you're like, no, of course it works. It's the fucking hula hoop. It's a hit.

The hula hoop also gives it the miraculous joke of just a picture of a circle, a drawing of a circle that, you know, for kids. It's so funny. It's so funny. The moment where he takes it out to show it to Paul Newman, and then he realized the circle is upside down and turns it around, it's so great. It is funny every time. It is funny when they heighten it to the straw and the frisbee.

Despite having seen the poster, when I went to see this for the first time, I think I forgot it was a Hula Hoop movie. So when they introduced the circle drawing, I was like, oh, the bit is that they're never going to define what this is. That it's a dumb abstract pitch. But no, it's just for kids. And it makes the joke that much better that once he reveals it? I don't think I can do it. Like I... I'm not very good at it.

I have not very good at it. Now, my wife, again, like, loves to hula hoop. She has a hula hoop and just, like, hool all the time. That little kid who does a hula hoop in the movie, does a damn job at it. My wife was like, where did they find this hula hooping genius child? He was a great. He was a great. He was a pro or had a record or something.

You can tell in, like, the tension in his body that he's got, like, a lot of practice. He's doing very specific. They rehearsed moves. They got permission from WAMO and its parent company Kransko Group, which is very litigious, apparently. there is, Krantzko's basically only big question was will the Hulu Hoop

hurt anyone in the film and when they find out no, that's fine they're like, okay, there is a giant disclaimer at the end of the movie I don't know if you guys saw it where it says

this is a fictional account to the development of the Hulu Hoop and the big line is the Hulu Poe was actually developed by the founders of the toy company WAMO a true American success story like they suck WAMO's dick in the credits.

You know what? I like it. They deserve that sucking. Yeah, It was, it's, it's great. I like that they were okay with them doing it. Yes. That's,

that whole sequence that ends with the little boy. It makes you want to get a hoop. And hooling. Yeah, it is. But it's also just so dazzling. Like just going from, from approval to, you know, they're taking it through all the various departments.

They're taking it to accounting. They take it to manufacturing. They take it to marketing. And then it's in stores and we see it be a commercial flop and then be a commercial success. And it's all happening in like a two minute montage. So Ramey was so rad. director on this movie, which they had never really had before, and I don't know if they

ever had again since, because they're guys who are very big on, like, we shoot everything. We want to have control over inserts, but they obviously trust him so much. He had written it. That whole sequence is like his main project in this movie, which makes sense because there is like it's like Spider-Man. Yes. It's like the Montau stuff in Spider-Man. Deep with details and control that it makes sense that it was basically treated as its own like

eight-minute short film that has its own. Our buddy Patrick Willems made a great video about it where he was just like, this is the greatest movie montage of all time because it basically functions as a mini movie. Yes. It has its own characters, its own arcs.

The guy with the, you know, price labels going up and down and all that. And the fucking pitchman. Like you have like four different narratives you keep checking back in on. And just following that, just following the hula hoop as it rolls along.

It becomes a character onto himself. Yes. And Carter Burwell going out of fucking control. Carter Burwell does black out making this movie. It is crazy. We haven't talked about the Carter Burrwell score. That guy rocks. So incredible.

Um, so the Coins don't have a particular inspiration. They say, you know, yes, kind of a copra-esque thing. Golden Age of Hollywood, sure, but they're not like ripping off, you know, it's just like, sometimes it's got a his girl Friday energy. Sometimes what, you know, like when the film comes out, as we noted, it does get a lot of shit for kind of like, you're just doing, you know, what they did back in the 30s better. Yeah. Um, and, uh, the Cohen's, uh, sort of, well, they don't care.

Um, everything with the paper is very hoxian, right? The capra, like, kind of, um, through line is the like, one idealistic pure man who is able to, like, change the world around him, which is kind of the Norville Barnes character in a certain way, even though he's presented as a total dope. Um, and then the, the, the Sturge is like, uh, I feel like trademark is this sort of like, we're all stuck. and the crazy machinery of modern life that characters get kind of knocked around like in a pinball machine through like corporations and rules of society and all this sort of stuff. And I think it's those three things clashing together

with this like this world building that does feel like it's out of like in a war film. Now they write this movie in 1985. They know they cannot make a movie like this. Right. You know, early on it's going to be expensive. They basically, right, like wrote it, didn't think at all about how they would film it, finished the script, looked at it

and we're like, oh, no one will give us the money to make this and we don't know how to pull this off. They also do not write the ending. They could not figure out the ending. They just have him jump and they're like, we'll figure it out later. You know, he's on the ledge. An insane ending.

I mean, it is an insane. I like that was one thing I, like, as a kid, I remember watching it and the moment when time stops and then the guy gets a character who is, I guess essentially the devil, like gets his teeth punched out. I was like, what the fuck? What the fuck is this? What is the movie I'm watching?

It is quite a twist to reveal, yeah, that the janitor is, yeah, evil, I guess, if Bill Cobbs is good. Like, so that is crucial to them all the time, though, where they're writing it, because apparently at one point, I think it's Ramey, Ramey's like, well, maybe should Musburger be more of a good guy? And they're like, no, he is bad. Like, they're only good and bad. Like, this movie does not have shades of gray. It's black and white. It's so much more fun that he's just a bad guy. Yeah.

He gets caught in a big net and sent to a sanitary. He's so funny that that's what happens to at the end. And it's also so funny that the double stitch, which is, of course, the best joke in the movie. He's the guy saying, oh, he's such a nice kid. We're like, no, he's not. We'll circle back to the double sit. Double stitch is 40 minutes of its own conversation. Ramey in the way that, like, when we covered him, we talked so much about how he loved to torture Bruce

Campbell and, like, design sequences around putting him in physical pain and, like, embarrass himself. When they would, like, the three of them would physically write together in the Same room, Ramey would buy firecrackers. And if they hit walls, he'd, like, shoot firecrackers at them. And be like, come on guys, ideas, don't slow down. Yes, we would throw firecrackers at them. Our buddy Kevin Smith, when he was on the show, in our Ramey days, four simple plan, talked about how he thinks the Buzz character is the Cohen's mocking Ramey in the way he speaks. Right.

Ramey's kind of Midwestern G. Will occurs. Right. He's like, really, like, he's like, this is Ramey's energy, if you've ever met. him like amplified into buzz he did say that that's right he said like that's what sam ramey's like yes you mentioned the the flexi straw earlier and that you know buzz when he goes and pitches that's just like such a such an incredible performance i mean just like him just like rattling off because like he's doing it every with every line of dialogue he's got everything

is so crisp everything is so precise his cadence is so rapid fire but in particular there and then he also has the emotional arc of when he gets fired and then he just collapses into tears and says this job is all that I've got. I don't know. It's so fucking good. I think again, that's the sincerity. You know, like, it's like, and you are like, oh, no. You know, like, you're not just like, ah, fuck that

guy. You know, you do feel bad. He plays that scene so well for a character that is just kind of like commuter construction. Like, what if a guy talked this way, right? That in that scene when Tim Robbins, like, lashes out at him, he's doing this balance of being, like, so personally

hurt, but Buzz's core like tenant is to be friendly to everyone all the time. So he keeps coming like, oh, hey, come on, Kai. I tried my best. You know, he's like through tears trying to apologize to Tim Robbins for offending him with a bad pitch when Tim Robbins is basically just shitting on him because now he's been like taken down himself. He needs to feel big.

He was the guy who, like at first I was like, what the hell is going on here when I was first watching the movie and then completely wins me over. So loud, of first, yes, even by this movie's standards. I'm a guy who loves to say buddy. I like that he says buddy a bunch of, yeah, pretty great. So the Coens make, uh, they make, well, they make blood simple. And they make three movies for the company, Circle films. They make, uh, fucking Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing and Martin,

Miller's Crossing fucking Barton. Well, that was every, I mean, I know you both have talked about this before, but on other episodes, but what, what was, what was everyone's first Coen Brothers movie? Mine was raising Arizona because I, I remember that just showing. oddly on cable. I think we tried to puzzle this out already, but go ahead. My parents rented

Raising Arizona for me and I didn't get it. I think I probably a similar reaction to you with Hudsucker didn't make it to the end. I think, Oh, brother was the first one

I saw in theaters. And then I was like, I got to watch all these. Oh, brother's definitely the first one I saw in theaters. I think Fargo, I don't know. Did I talk about this already? Yeah.

Yeah, I figure you probably covered this in another episode. I don't remember, though. I remember anything anymore. Fargo was the first one. Apparently Griffin likes European vacation. That was news to me.

Yeah, We were texting about it, and David was like, when did you say this? And I said, in the episode. No memory of that. But then apparently I saw all the people reacting. It was like, apparently Griffin-on that episode was just like, and I like that part, me and Gabor still like, okay. Fargo was the first one I saw in theaters, and the first one that I liked, the first one was like, oh, wow, wait, okay. So you're right.

You were old enough to see Fargo in theaters. I did not see Fargo in theaters. Also, can you stop pointing your banana at me? Yeah, why? He's just holding a banana. I like her love to have a piece of fruit. You're gesturing with it a lot. Look, I've had Chekow's banana sitting here.

I'm going to deploy it at some point. But I was trying to cue you up to say what your first Cohn Brothers movie was nonverbally, but I was using the banana. I'm sorry. You used the banana. I didn't know if you were gesturing for me to eat the banana. I didn't know what the hell was going on. I didn't know what the hell was going on. Also, when you walked in here, I thought you had a banana in your pocket, but now you're holding the banana in your pants.

You're still tended. My first Cohn Brothers movie in the theater. I'm going to have to do a little deep dive here to figure this out. Or if you watched one at home. first. Well, you were going through the fromography, so maybe that'll trigger something. I mean, Fargo is definitely I think the first one I watched. Yeah. But I did not, I did not see in the theater, but

the first one in the theater is like... Lubowski, did you see Lobowski in theaters? I didn't see Lubowski in theaters, and Lubowski is one of the early ones I watched. So Fargo or Lubowski, like, in like high school or college or whatever, renting it, yeah. And then the first one in theaters, I'm like, I didn't see old brother in theaters. Maybe it maybe was burn after reading. It was my first.

You didn't see no country in theaters? Oh, I saw no country. Okay. So no country is, I guess, is the one. I mean, Lady Killers, Tom Hanks is basically doing your, like, southern, you know, Cajun gentleman character. Oh, so you're saying a very good representation of the, okay. Tom Hanks basically plays a snow game. Oh, my God.

Is dressed in all white? I am now thinking, is, then is Lady Killers the first Coen Brothers? Maybe. What year is that? O'Four. Yeah, 04. Shit, Lady Killers is probably my first Coimbrons. seen their other movies on video.

That's just the first one on theaters. Yeah, you were already into them. It's also funny that in Lady Killers, there are like four separate scenes where he tricks you two guys into sucking him off. But you didn't remember that. He's running two cons. One is he's trying to rob a casino

and the other one is to get you guys to keep giving him dome. Great early credit for us. Yeah, I know. Huge. Get to suck Tom Hanks off. Yeah, I guess we didn't. We should talk about how we were both

in a Conan Brothers movie. and also sucked off Tom Hanks. Except those scenes didn't make the cut of the movie. They're all deleted scenes. It was worth it, though. I really enjoy it. It was a great experience. Also, the cameras weren't rolling and it was in his hotel.

We can cut this out. We can cut this out. I think we should cut this out. Not this part. This part's fine. So it wasn't Tom Hanks. What I'm about to say, I think I'm going to want us to cut it out. I'm just learning you, Ben.

I think this has to stay in, though. The stuff talking about us about talking about talking about talking about talking about. It has to stay. Yeah. Do you think Tommy says a good penis? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And also, I think it needs to stay in.

By the way, we're keeping this in. All right, all right. I don't think he has like a, you got a right home about it. No, but like it's good. I think he's got an incredibly sturdy American penis. It's got a beautiful every man penis. It just does the job. It does competent.

The job. Right. And it's almost like it's a little, it's a little unremarkable at first. And that the kind of plainness is what speaks up on. You're right. It seeks up on you. Yeah. So a grower.

but like not sure I think he's like a bit of a grower a bit just a little bit you know like it's just it's just all good you see it and you're like that's okay

and then it grows a little bit beyond your expectations can I can I tell you my thought I think I think he's a big bush like a weirdly big bush and just just from when he in Gump when he grows that beer it's pretty wild

so I'm like I think he I think he's a hairy man he's an upside down gump beard I think he has an upside down gump beard but he doesn't have like a hairy torso or hairy like particularly airy. He's kind of hairy and castaway. He's like a little hairy. But that was quite a noise you just made. You went, because the beard gets so out of control and castaway. But I do think he's just kind of got a speckling of hair. He doesn't have like a fur suit. I love this conversation. It's

making me feel better about my scary movie pitch from earlier, which I think is a good pitch. I think, I think Hank, I think Hank's is just an all American in every way. It's great. Just like, just the best of us. Yeah. So they made these three movies. Joel Silver, the Hawaiian shirt wearing... Wait, I'm sorry, the three movies again?

You're still pointing with a banana. He can point with this banana down. I'm sorry. No, no, keep it, keep it. So Blood Simple is there obviously indie movie debut.

And then they make three movies for a company called Circle Films that basically gives them like a little budget to make something and releases it and it makes a little more money. So Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing,

Barton Fink. But then Joel, and those movies are well received, but are hardly blockbusters. And then Joel Silver, who's the guy who made Predator, and diehard and lethal weapon and all that, loves their movies and acquires this script

from them, essentially. He says he's been a big fan for many years. He wants to make a big budget movie for them, and this is their chance. So they had the script that sort of existed as their dream project of what if someday we have enough capital that we can get someone to give us the money for Hudsucker, knowing it's a big ask.

And their agent is like, Joel Silver always is asking when he can do a Cohen Brothers movie. And Joel Silver had this attitude of, like, I think these guys have in them a blockbuster hit movie. I think he looked at them as having like a sort of Wolfgang Peterson type trajectory where like here's a guy who can make like really technically proficient but like bracing sober intellectual movies. And then maybe over time you can give them a really big paycheck to make something kind of dumber and they apply the same skill to it. I think you probably misidentified that these guys are going to do their own thing forever. but he was like, I want them and Joel Silver also

like kind of is the 90s version of the Michael Lerner character from Barton Fink is that kind of like cigar chump and fast talk and studio exec. They talk about as being like

the last of the kind of Louis B. Mayer archetype guys. A maniac. But he's almost exclusively doing action movies at this point in time. And I think he both like wants to be doing comedies

and like a lot of these guys at a certain point you're like okay you've had like 15 huge hit movies in a row the only thing to still chase now is like prestige like now you want an Oscar can I jump over and get in bed with these guys I should also mention that Joel Silver plays the director in who framed Roger Rabbit

that's true he does he's yelling at the baby in the beginning of the movie he's the one right yeah is it is but is you're talking about this as a commercial play Is this an attempt at... I guess so. Everyone involved is like, this is going to be their commercial breakthrough. These guys have been like,

the Coen brothers have been like percolating and they've been like getting their legs and now everyone's ready. And they were like, this is our calculation to make a broad comedy. And Silver was like, I'm not in the business making like artie films.

I want to make hits. We have designed this to win over audiences. Like in the press, they kept being like, what is this weird self-indulver? like pastiche bullshit and they were like nope we think this is for everybody so this isn't an attempt because

you said the word prestige this isn't an attempt at like hey we're going to make a prestige picture that will also be commercially successful this is like we're going to just have like a I think the difference is that he wanted that's the needle they're trying to thread I think he's like I make a lot of big hit films that aren't taken seriously

can I do both but he wasn't looking to just like make a little artie film on the side he goes to Warner Brothers and is like we're doing this and we're putting like 40 million I think it was 25 and it went up to 40. Supposedly it was 25, but right, I think it cost more.

Is there any point in time where this movie would be like a commercial success? Yeah, 19443. Like truly past that moment, not really. Well, I do think that there's a thought that maybe this sort of thing was a little ahead of its time. Sure.

If we're going to talk about something that's like talking about an iconic American product and it's fictionalized, you know, history, we can look at the recent mega hit unfrosted as a modern counter exam. Right. Absolutely. A totemic figure in the culture on frost. Yeah. Can I just do that? David's going to sigh very loudly when I say this. But I truly just want to do this,

okay? Joel Silver, 48 hours streets of fire, Brewster's Million, Weird Science, Commando, Jump and Jack Flash, lethal weapon, predator action Jackson, die hard roadhouse, lethal weapon two, die hard two, adventures of Ford Farrellane, Predator 2, Hudson Hawk, Ricochet, Last Boy Scout, Lethal Weapon 3, Demolition Man. That is, without skipping anything, every movie he made until Hudsucker Proxy. I'm not like cutting out. That is wild. Like, oh, and that he made like a small indie What is the arduous film? In that run. Demolition Man? That's a good movie. No, it's probably

Hudson Hawk. It's like, there's the Hudson Hawks in there where you're like, okay, he has enough of a relationship with a star that the star is like can i make something a little weirder and he's like yeah sure bruce i don't know what he sounds like after this the same year as this he also makes richy rich yeah and it felt like he was trying to in a way where like brookheimer was like the king of a certain kind of blockbuster machismo action movie and then was like i want to do disney films i want to try to make pearl harbor like these guys ultimately go like don't box me in i can make any type of movie, and this felt like the year where he was trying, and then pretty soon after

he just, like, goes back to his lane. Now, who does Joel Silver want as the lead of this film? Tom Cruise. He wants Tom Cruise. Wow. And I get it. I think Silver's just like, well, we're going to make a star, you know, a big movie for you guys. This is a blue chip movie. We're going to get all the biggest people for them. Man, I love

Cruz, but I cannot see that working almost at all. It's a little hard to imagine. I'd love to see it. It would be very strange. Let himself I think especially at that point in time play this dumb. Probably not. He probably would have filmed the opening on a real ledge.

That's true. He would have actually stopped time somehow. He would have figured out how to do that. The Coins do not want to deal with that. They want a lower star, a lower Wadage star. They picked him Robbins. Paul Newman's obviously the most famous

actor they've ever worked with up to this point. Clint Eastwood was their top choice. which is hilarious to consider. He was too busy making four movies a year and having threesomes or whatever it is. But this does feel like Paul Newman in a way doing a Kleeneistwood impression.

There's a bit of it. Yeah, sure. I agree with that. Not like gravel voice. The full grit kind of. Newman was kind of just like, yeah, it's an interesting script. I don't fucking know.

Like his vibe was basically just like, what do I care if this doesn't work? Like I'm Paul Newman. I'm an actor for hire. And he was sort of like, they have an interesting. voice a madden age where like if this movie bombs they're not going to kick

me out of Hollywood right like he had a quote some other good quotes they call this an industrial comedy what the fucking industrial comedy is I have no idea and then he says I think the coens have a perverted vision I think it's a good word they don't tell a story directly they move like crabs and it's refreshing to find something so

eccentric he also had a line where he was like they don't explain themselves well but you get what they want they have good eyes he was sort of like that's kind of really I mean, that's a, as someone who makes things, it's not, it's, it's, it's a good eyes. Yeah, it's great.

It's a great description. His coolness, though, that he was like, these guys are unlike any directors I've ever worked with. He's like, half the reason I did was I wanted to see what it's like working with two directors. And they are like symbiotic. It does not feel like you see two people fighting for control, but also like, I'd ask them a question about my character and they'd be like, faster or more evil would be their direction. And he was like, you could get frustrated by that or you could be.

like let me look around the set, let me look at the script and figure out what they want. Because it is specific. As an actor Griff, watching the dialogue delivery, I was like, this is maybe too, I think I maybe just would never be able to do some of the stuff that's in. Some of the

dialogue rate is just so fast. I don't think I could ever perform at that quickly. Basically, every scene in this movie is like a skill piece for at least one performer doing something where the timing is so exquisite. And a lot of this plays out in like long takes. Yeah, Like what you did, you know, what you did for the, the open there.

I mean, that sequence of just like, because that's also a oneer. And with so much movement, it's just like, you know, like background characters are just going all over the frame. And then there's just so many precise physical moments on top of the, just like the dialogue that's being, you know, ratat-tatted out. It's just like, I can't imagine how much precision is required to actually execute that. When he got to set, he said, like, these are the biggest sets I have been on since the silver chalice, which was Paul Newman. first movie, basically, which was a biblical epic in the 50s right before those kind of died.

And he basically was like, here in 1994, this is like the biggest sets I've seen directors get to build since that thing went out of style. And he's just like, right, I get what kind of movie I'm in. And like, I get to play the asshole. Like, I don't have to worry about carrying the story weight. Winona Ryder and Bridget Fonda,

obviously in consideration for the role of Amy Archer. Makes sense. Ryder would have been too young. I think it would have thrown it. off. Fonda makes a ton of sense. Yeah, she'd be great. Yeah. Instead, it goes to the other single white female,

Jennifer Jason Lee. And Charles Durning was cast according to Joel Cohen because the idea of a fat person falling 40 floors is funnier than a thin person falling 40 floors,

but they liked that he had that dancer background so he could do all the physicality and all this sort of choreography. You have to convey a lot in his body in like the first 60 seconds he's on screen. The moment just like when he is the blue letter

is finally being read that he takes it out of the apron and he's reading at the end and there's the paragraph about how because you meet Paul Dubin's character's wife earlier and then there's the like talks about how yeah it talks about it being an affair

that the way that their relationship started and then you learn that he's the guy who got cuckolded and then he just starts crying he's like ah let's get this part it's so funny cries like a baby You see like, the fillings in his teeth. They wanted Jack Lemon in drag to play Paul Newman's wife.

Wow. That's that idea. But they should have done it. That's the kind of gag we talked about in 1941 that makes you angry where you're like, there is like a gross abuse of like power and money. You have too much resources. Right. Pull that off.

The Cohen's loved working with Joel Silver and had no problems. Yeah. Which is like rare. Usually it's like, oh, we classed with him or whatever. And, like, they just had a great time. They found him funny. I think they like that he's a cartoon movie model. They're like, this is like a guy we would write, like this, like silly large man smoking his cigar.

But also guys like that, like, I mean, Ruden's another one who's like contemporaneous at that time. And I feel like Silver doing this movie is maybe him looking over at Ruden and being like, man, this guy made big comedy hits. And now he's like getting best picture nominations. Do I want to like branch out in a similar way? And Ruden later works with the Cohen's a bunch. And all these guys are just like, here's my deal. I find filmmakers who I think are like fully formed artists after they've like cut their teeth on a couple movies and I come in and I go like, hey, I'll just have all the fights

for you. You guys do what you want and just don't ask me how I get it done, you know? And I think like, like, Joel Silver would just like yell at everybody and get them what they wanted and they could just do their thing. Obviously they built giant sets. The table in the conference room is so large that I had to be delivered in five separate pieces, they wanted everything to basically look like Mussolini's, you know, X, Mussolini's room, office, Mussolini's

conference room. And we never see home life. Everything is work. Everything is like at the office or at the building or whatever. They basically, it's like cartoon citizen cane, I feel like, is what they're doing, right? Just everything's just so long, so much depth of feels. Yes. And the ceilings are so fucking high. Everything is ridiculously high. And every character is basically, like, being eaten alive by their spaces. Right. Yeah.

Dwarfing the people. They didn't actually want to use the guy, Michael McAllister, who's the big visual effects guy, who's worked on a ton of blank check movies. I had won an Oscar for Last Crusade. You don't want a list a couple. No, we just, come on. List a couple. E.T. Return of the Jedi.

Last Crusade. Yeah, you know. Can I quickly say that, and this is not helping at all to keep us on track, but. the banana wiger still holds onto this banana. We can talk banana. And it's in the banana has oxidizes. It's now it looks like it was yellow when he came in here. And now it looks like an old banana.

I'm handling a little too much. It's getting a little brisk. It's getting bruised. I got to set it down. This guy, Michael McAllister, loves the Coins. And the Coins are basically like, you can't use the Chryserville. You can't use the Empire Stiplety. Like it has to be like fake art deco, New York.

So they built this giant. gotta get more wipes gotta get more wipes I get more wipes I get texts from like home like over the course of the day which is usually that a child of mine has pooped which is always said

I've gotten into the habit of just announcing if somebody pooped on my podcast can I go Bill Marmode for a second new rule yeah anytime you get a text like that as long as it is not deeply personal information I think you need to read it out loud automatically like you just did

three packs of wipes left so we gotta get some more just please read these it's crazy how many wipes you need. I mean, I know it's not crazy. Like, that's child rearing or whatever. But, like, you never think about wet wipes until you got two infant babies in your own. This is like every time I go to Target to refresh on toilet paper and the employees there are like, we're a big family. I'm like, no, I live alone. Oh, you're like the person who's getting too much Chinese food.

It is like, oh, this is for all my friends. I like wait until they have a sale where it's like $5 off 372 roll packs at once and they have to like tape them to my arms to carry them all I just got a text

from Mike Mitchell here can you get me some white shoe I just I heard what I don't know I figure I could use something too

oh yeah I'll get you sell I'll get you a box do you want the box yeah give me the box it's one of those things where Amazon is like you've purchased this 108 times or whatever

they like tell you um Deacons Roger Deacons the great cinematographers First is, this is their most underrated film. He loved, obviously he kind of went off on this one. It's a good looking movie.

It's gorgeous. It's beautiful. Art direction standpoint, from a, you know, visual effects standpoint, which so often visual effects is, like, talked about, like, in terms of, like, some sort of technical sort of capacity. Does the dinosaur look good? Exactly. But, like, it's an art, it's an artistic craft.

And, like, from the standpoint of artistic achievement, this is an amazing visual effects movie. And then obviously the cinematography is so great. uh deacons is a genius um obviously like breaking news or whatever do you have a favorite thing he shot it's a good question i mean um maybe a tough thing to pull off the top of your yeah but now i'm want to look to his filmography like because my thing with deacons is he worked on a lot of amazing movies so it's sort of like yes he absolutely you know was unconscious fucking like on lobowski or whatever you're right you're like yeah no kidding but like something like that movie house of sand and

fog which is like a forgotten piece of shit and you're like why just this looks so good and right deacons like i like i like it when he i mean the jesse james stuff is kind of the best where like i think i don't think that movie's a masterpiece i think it's very good but it's like looking at paintings that have come to life in a way that isn't i i truly think um uh the company men i've never seen that which is a dog shit movie right terrible is the only one of his movies that kind of looks anonymously shot where I'm like, I don't believe this is Roger Deacons and outside of that, he's basically

the cinematographer version of the like Harry Dean Stanton rule where it's like as bad as a movie is if he shot it, that alone makes it worth watch. Right. Like, is that the Tofer Grace one? Companyman, what's that? Company men, no, that you're thinking of in good company. Yeah. Okay.

It's like, it's like up in the air. Okay. It's like, company men is directed by the creator of he's not the creator of year i'm sorry john well runner the former showrunner yes um head great is the creator of er i'm sorry going to get a letter from in this state i'm gonna get soon um it is a movie that is about how hard the recession was for executives and it's yeah that's right that's right tammy lee jones and chris cooper and cosner well costner is the blue

color guy costner is i want to say aflex brother-in-law who's like you want me to feel bad for you because you guys have to try to get an entry-level corporate job. I build houses. And it's all of them just like playing golf together being really sad. I think two of them killed themselves. It is like a truly like... It was like a real Oscar play that nobody watched. Wither the execs.

The film's good. Okay. And let's talk about it. The Hudson Zucker proxy. You have these kind of like multiple hold opens in a row, right? Like the film starts with a couple sequences that all feel. almost stand-alone introductions and are largely wordless.

The opening is all the Bill Cobb narration talking about the idea of a new year in the promise and what could happen and the idea that this guy in such a short period of time has gone from the highest has climbed from the mailroom to the top and now is going to fall all the way down, right?

This insane shot where you're like going through models, you're doing these like cross-fade dissolves. And then at one point you realize, oh, this one is a real set because you're seeing human Tim Robbins walk out, walk across the ledge, to the clock, and then the clock starts spinning backwards

and the camera goes up to the sky. You have these triumphant fucking credits, Carter Burwell going ham. This was the one time, I think, largely because of the influence of Joel Silver and Warner Brothers, where they were like, we need to test screen this thing early that they insisted on a temp score.

So a lot of this is taken from the Spartacus opera. Do you have the name of the composer? there. It's in the dossier. I will tell you his name is I'm going to probably mispronounce it. R.M. Kachurian.

But the saber dance. That comes from this show. His Spartacus, but also the main theme of this movie is repurposed from that. And Burwell was like, I felt handcuffed and then I realized I could explode it and do a lot of stuff from there. But to go

straight from like this like old Hollywood would like triumphant grand orchestra opening to then this boardroom of this guy just fucking pat himself on the back for how successful they've been ending with like in short folks we're filthy rich right and you're just watching david is going to take a shit i assume um the wipes came the wipes arrived he had them deliver to the bench yeah i think he had to deliver to the bathroom he had like pneumatic tubes installed in the bathroom so you can get deliveries there. God, what a great, a great pneumatic tubes movie.

I love pneumatic tubes. One of the best. I mean, the entire, just the, the mail room just being like a boiler room. It is so, it's so, it looks so cool. And everything is so packed with bodies. Yeah. That's just like another thing. I love watching any movie made before the 21st century when, when, you know, like now

everything is just crowd duplication, which fine, but it's just like just seeing so many people in a frame. And interesting looking people on top of that. Yeah. And also it's like, right, that that's sort of like first dolly shot through the mail room as he's given the docket speech. It's like the choreography of everyone crossing and the amount of different action in jobs. It's just like mind boggling to think about. And I do think whether or not people consciously clock it, there is like a magic to like getting one take where everything goes right that you do feel versus it having.

to be constructed later. And it just feels like spectacle when there's a high degree of difficulty. Yes. But I just love that like wordlessly, Charles Durning, who to me is one of the goats, in this sequence just shows like this despondency as all these fat cats are like

evilly laughing to themselves at how rich they've gotten and just plays this entire arc briefly in like 30 seconds at a couple of closeups of like, what is this life of mind? Right? Like you see him sort of like smile, then look off into the middle distance out the window, then like kind of ruefully wind his like stopwatch. And I genuinely, the more I watch it, the more I think he only considers killing himself for the first time in that moment. That you're watching a guy talk himself intuitive just like, what's the fucking point? I've made it to the top of the mount. I have nothing else to do. I built this. I have nothing to prove to anyone anymore. Why not just end it? And then he just so gracefully like runs across the table, digs his heels in. jumps out the window. I think that's why people watched the Doe Boys video feed

every week. Yeah, they're waiting for that moment. They're waiting for the Chekhov's banana to go off, finally. The, uh, it's going to go off my mouth. Um, the, uh, so that, like the, the moment, so he runs out, he sprints.

And then it's like, the reaction of the boardroom of just everyone is just immediately going on with business as usual, except for the one guy. Yeah. just so like he's just bawling and crushed like how can you be like this right now it's i i love that guy who's also the guy who tries to kill himself later just kill himself later yeah yeah with the in the plexig glass is there it's also a great decision that i think paul newman is not visible no in the durning so the first time you're seeing yeah it's almost like he appeared on nor

you're right is him looking out the window unsentimental having watched who you later find out is like ostensibly his best friend jumped to his death but all that cross-cut with wordlessly Tim Robbins, Norville Barnes going through the like literal fresh off the bus, looking at the job board, looking at the classifieds, like the immediate feeling of this guy coming to a new city with all this hope and optimism and within four minutes being like crushed by it. And there's such a good little character detail of he gets his coffee at the diner. He doesn't realize that the coffee has left the ring with. the hud sucker job opening that like fate is going to like follow him out the door but he leaves

like two um nickels and a penny and then he looks at his pocket and he's like oh did should i give him that much and what he takes back is the penny of like this guy can't afford to give change and yet what he's taking back is the lowest amount yeah it's a good guy he's a good guy he's all right david he gets to be a bit of a jerk later on he does i i kind of i mean like What's great about his character is that he's not a secret genius. Like, he is just, like, kind of a dope. But he has, he sees things with such clarity and such simplicity that that's, that's his secret weapon.

That's his advantage that allows him to come up with something, um, uh, you know, like the, like the dingus, uh, like the hula hoop. And, but I, but I don't know. Like, I really just like a stupid character. Like, I like a guy. He's just like a dumb guy is funny. And he's good at it. He's very good at it.

Isn't the chance that you, that, that, I always feel like a movie if it is like a dumb lead character there's a chance that the movie can just be bad and like I think it's a higher chance that it's like who cares about this movie and there's I don't really care about any of the characters

and this guy's just an idiot well there's also something too I think that the character so badly wants to be told that he's a genius that he accepts a lot of things that don't make sense because they're flattering to him like as much as he is not the smartest guy in the world

they make clear that he did go to like a low level business school. And he will say to Musburger like shouldn't we be doing this? And he's like the Hulu hoop is a good idea that he had. And he's like yeah. When he says you know for kids he's thought about it like

this would be good for kids. It's cheap. It's like you know a gap in the market. That's probably all he's thought about. He doesn't have any other particular right. Well you brought Forrest Gump and it's just another another movie where it's not the smartest man. But then like is the most

noble guy in the way and he's he is he they show him be kind of an asshole like you were saying sims at some point in the movie but like comes a jerk still likable he still maybe that's the robin's charm i think that's like the sort of uh more of the commentary on the like um the soul like crushing nature of pursuit of this kind of like endless growth and like corporate dominance is like that's what starts to destroy him is the idea that he needs to like become this kind of tighten a business which he then needs to like learn the lesson from but basically the plot set up that we were getting to

one hour and 55 minutes into a recording we've talked about a lot of the movie already but just keep going to talk about a lot more is that they realized that in his will wearing hodzucker said that on January 1st the year after his death all the stock no he didn't say any he doesn't have a will It's that because he doesn't have a will. All his stock will be public.

And he owns 87% of the company. The blue letter is, of course, his actual will. Which we'll get to. But, yes. So they need to find a way one week before New Year's to tank the value of the company so greatly that they can buy back all the stock in advance of January 1st. So the public doesn't take over the company. It's a producer's thing.

They need to make it bad to be to get what they want. It's a classic meme coin rugpole. It's a hot to all of this. And their big play that Musburger puts forward is get some jerk.

You need a hud sucker proxy. You need to put some fucking idiot at the chair at the end of the boardroom who you can blame everything on. Robbins,

by the way, should, we should just note on a crazy run. This is the same year as Shawshank, same year as IQ, one of the great movies.

Never seen IQ. Is Dead Man Walking The Follow? Dead Man Walking is the following years. It's the same year as Shawshank. Same year as Shawshank. Because he seems so much young. He seems as IQ. He seems so much

younger in this than he does in Shawshay. He seems like he seems like he's so, you're right, he's so boyish in this. Yeah, and of course Shawshank also is said over so many years and it ages them. Like it's years after the player which I feel like is him sort of graduating

into a more serious leading man type. I mean, I guess Jacob's Ladder is that. Old Durham is 88. okay players 91 players 92 okay um but jacobs ladder in 90 which is a movie i like a lot uh he's the lead of that i mean it's a horror movie but still he's good in that uh bob roberts which is his directorial debut and he's starring is 92 and the players that year so he's like medium hot stuff oh yeah totally oh yeah oh yeah uh and it's like after dead man walking is kind of when it gets weird for him where it's like, he does,

he writes and directs Cradle Will Rock, which is a bomb. Let's acknowledge Dead Man Walking, he gets a fucking best director nomination. Before he's ever gotten an acting nomination. So now it's like, are you a genius otter? Right, 100%.

But then Cradle Will Rock. You got to make another movie. Jesus, I'm really struggling with it. Cradle Will Rock is a bomb, is sort of the end of him as a director. Right. And then he does Arlington Road,

which does kind of rock. It does. And he's good in it. Mm-hmm. And Mission to Mars. Like, there's a couple movie he's doing where it's like, yeah, Tim Robbins. He's like above the title. Four hire thriller.

Yeah. Second lead. Anti-trust. Yeah. Remember antitrust? Where it's like evil Bill Gates or whatever. But it's a lot of like big role and Tim Robbins parts. Truth about Charlie is that.

Yes. And then he wins the Oscar for Mystic River. And then his career kind of goes out of him. Kind of goes away. Immediately. And obviously he's got a bit of a rep for being a bit of a tough cookie. I guess, but like I didn't know that about Robbins

I think he's a big personality right? I don't know maybe I'm I think he's got a lot of ideas I know he's one of those guys I think that rumor has been circulated by George W. Bush who he's famously taken down a peg in this many plays he did dare criticize the president

yeah I don't know you know my thing I won't I won't watch us until Kanye apologizes about George W. Bush that's my thing Got it. So you want S&L to get Kanye back now. Yes.

This is the moment to get him back. I'll say this. We're recording this. What's the date today? He also didn't say that on SNL, but you're like, but he needs to address it on us. They called it back. I just want to carbon date this. We're recording this on May 12th.

Yes. I think there is a reasonable chance of by the time this episode comes out, Kanye West has publicly says, George Bush cares about black people more than anyone else. I love George Bush. W. Bush, I'm voting for him in the next election. Which would be the normal thing, the most normal thing he said.

Wow, kind of returned. Yeah. He's not going to apologize. He's going to like endorse. Yeah, okay. So Hudsucker gets hired. All the mail room stuff is so. That's the most Terry Gilliam. Just being in like the basement and like all with

all the tubes and all the yelling and all the guys with the mail. You have the guy who throws the mail into the what's his name? Patrick Crenshaw, who's blue in old school. I'm pretty sure. Oh, right. Yes. Yeah. Patrick Crenshaw as ancient sorter. And indeed, he was in old school. Just another good character detail I like where I think, you know, they talked about when

when this film was received that people complained that the Jennifer Jason Lee character was too harsh and the Robin's character was too dumb. And they were like, why wouldn't you bring both of them towards the center and make them more likable? And they were just like, what do you mean? Like, this is so much more interesting to do. do it this way. But there are these small details I do like that they put in to be like, he's not an absolute imbecile as

much as he's kind of a dope. And he is sort of like thoughtful. And the bit with him getting the larger envelope that he doesn't know where to sort, because you have like the two names, the senior and the junior, and the junior mailbox is smaller, but it's smaller. Right. And he like solves this problem in a pretty considerate way of like,

I'll write a note, put in the dad's mailbox, tell him to give it to the son. Yeah. Like there is a little indication of like, this guy can make decisions. Do-boys, I have a question. It's not to do with the Hodgeker Proxy, but I have to ask. Someone just posted in my work, Slack, this question. Guys, is legal seafood in

Boston famous, expensive, very good? Can someone explain it to me? Well, I know you're a legal seafood knower, Mitch. The only reason. Wags is just one week away from knowing this, and I wonder what your thoughts will be. Wow. You're doing legal seafood on the

pod? We are talking about legal sea foods separate words and plural on the podcast. Yes, we're doing it for our live show in Boston. We're doing legal seafoods. A great question, I think that you can feel every way about every, every, you can feel like it's good. You can feel like it's expensive. It is expensive. I mean, there's no doubt about that. But also, I think sometimes you can go there and think it's not good. And I think the quality is, goes up and down. I've never been there. But it's supposed to be an elevated chain. Yeah, it's like a 60 or seven, for my research, like a 60, 70 year old, you know, Boston institution.

And so I imagine it's the kind of place that people have a maybe complicated relationship with, certainly as it's grown and expanded, it is now in airports, you know. What's a day, this is going back to something we said a while back on the podcast, but once you start to expand any of these franchises, the quality is tough to maintain. So it's not Boston's finest. restaurant. It's just Katie Weaver, my colleague, the great Katie Weaver. Is it Boston's best, like, high-end chain? Oh, sure. Well, what would you be the competition for that? I mean, that's the issue that there was, like, no longer any competition. They've got that market. I'm aware of their market. Yeah, that's true. They do have the market. Boston markets is not doing great. A lot of these

chains are not doing great. I mean, these sort of like high-end chain. The local, is the local chain, like the 99 restaurant logs you went to. That's like a local chain. Not doing great. So I say yes. I think it is it's a step above. It's the best we got, I guess. Great Katie Weaver. Shout out, of course, her masterpiece, which is the article she wrote when she went to T.J. Fridays and only ate mozzarella sticks for an entire day.

Oh, sure. Oh, my God. The greatest piece is journalism in modern internet history. I'm not joking. It was when T.J. Fridays did the unlimited mozzarella sticks. Like, you can get as many as you want. Yeah. And she took it to the line. And Max, her editor told her, like, if you do it for an entire day, I'll give you a week off.

and it's great you should read it anyway um back to the hud circle proxy of course uh that sounds like something we we you and i maybe would just do not even for the show so he gets the blue letter he gets the blue letter goes up to the top floor to deliver the blue letter that is how he gets into the new newman's office correct and i do just that's where we meet the bell we don't need to call them out but i do want to call out because the first you know seven or eight minutes of the movie play without a ton of dialogue that then it really kicks in

at the post must murder death where they do my favorite kind of like screwball comedy like there are ten guys at this table each of them their only function is to do one bit and to heighten that bit and the bits keep crossing over there's the mezzanine guy

there's the sort of every step he took was to step up until the last one all of those guys are funny the guy with the big bushy eyebrows is obviously the funniest. I feel like I've seen that guy and other stuff, right? Big fishy eyebrow guy.

I feel like he's going to come up in other Cohen's as well. Right. But yes, the blue letter is this idea of this like inner Hudsucker universe importance of a letter that must be handed over

directly to the senior officer and no one else wants to take it because if you fuck up a blue letter, you're done. Norville kind of gets stuck with it as like the last guy through the door, the newest hire.

It does a great, the movie does a great job where I was like, did they just forget about the blue letter? I was like, they forgot about the blue letter. I was dumb. I fell for it until the end of the movie.

And I was like, oh, yeah, the blue letter. They got back to it. I genuinely worked on me. I was just like, oh, it was just a plot device

to get him to where he needed to be. It's that improv principle, though, of like the moment to call the thing back is like one minute after the audience is forgotten about it. Yes. You need to wait out

them keeping track of it. Yes. And it's great. You basically get to a point where you're like, I guess the blue letter was just, the excuse to get him into the room, it's not important to the story.

Yeah. When, in fact, it is like the crux of the whole thing. The fact that they say that they got stuck on the script with him on the ledge makes me think that the blue letter must not have been a part of the story.

Sure, that they bring that back as the sort of point. That they're like, what is the thing that he can do once he's already about to jump that solves the problem? What is some way that he can like win back the chair? I just think it's very ingeniously.

It's insane. I asked this before, but I said, is there any time where this movie would be commercially a success? And you said in 1940s, but if this was released this year, do you think it would be like a, I mean,

just, I guess even with the- With the Coins at their current level of fame? Yes. Yeah. It'd be more of a hit. Yeah. They've reunited and this is their,

like in the modern content. I think it would be. It's open up, it's open up against Final Reckoning. No, I mean, it's not going to be better than final reckoning. But it is funny that it does feel like a lot of the times that the co-ins have made something that has pitched more as a comedy, at the time people are like, why are they doing this? This is like a lark.

Why can't they be serious? They're supposed to be serious filmmakers. And then those movies tend to like age incredibly well. But the comedies, the straight comedies are usually the ones of theirs that are kind of dismissed in the moment. Didn't you, I mean, didn't you mention a Lubowski was not, did not perform well on the last? People were so mad about it. It wasn't just a bomb. People were like, they just made Fargo.

Why are they making this weird bowling comedy? Like, what is this? Like, it's, yeah, it's very funny. They've had, and, like, even this coming after Miller's Crossing and Barton Fink, they have these multiple arcs of moments where people are like, you were the fucking chosen ones. Like, what are you doing? Did you record the Barton Fink episode yet?

Yes, we did. Did you reference the part of the Simpsons or the, of course, we did? you can switch out for Barton Fink and the runner of Bart and his friends continually accidentally going to see

Art House movies and being disappointed because naked lunch Yeah and then there's well there's a dinner with Andre game right?

Was there an arcade cabinet? Yeah. Can I also just to go back to Final Reckoning for just a second? Wig said that he wished he could be put in the entity coffin

to fly to New York and I just wanted to bring that up that that's your way that you wish you could travel here is the entity coffin. Like checked in as like luggage. The entity coffin and Dead Reckoning Part 1, he does look like, it doesn't he seem like he emerges out of that, like having had an incredible nap? Yes.

He seems totally rejuvenated. I want to see if I can add the entity onto my CPAP. Morales is looking hot in that. Yeah. Yes. You got to credit the entity. Entity. I was saying that after one flight with the entity coffin, the entity coffin would be in therapy.

It's the big entity coffin in a sit-down therapy And I also wanted to just point out I don't know if this is spoilers Please You guys are seeing Final Reckoning tonight We sure are It's very exciting It is exciting

I hope we enjoy it I will say this I don't know if you've talked to them David We have two friends Who saw it three days ago Wow Who's the other Erlich is the one I know

And Esther Right there are people going to can And Erlick went thumbs down and Esther went thumbs up. Oh my God. Ehrlich's a dingus to use a hud sucker. I'm just saying let's put it on the record. By the time this has come out, that's true.

We'll have seen it. Our episode will have been released. Erlik did say it had like incredible action. He seemed a little annoyed by some of the other stuff. Complain that there weren't enough action sequences. I just also want to say we saw Dead Reckning part one with Ehrlich. We were like, who. And he walked out and he was like, that sucks. Cruz fucked it up.

And then I talked to him at, Ben's wedding He came around Last weekend And he said It's really disappointing Because obviously Dead Reckoning's a masterpiece

And I said you didn't like it He does this all the time And he went Yeah but I've watched it 15 times since And now I know it's a masterpiece Uh yeah Anyway We're an exclusive club

Do you know this? Married podcasters Wives name Nelly His wife's not His wife's not named Nelly Yeah her name's Natalie But it's close Natalie

I think you heard I was hearing Nelly I heard it multiple times. I can't. Now I'm realizing the way you say Natalie kind of does sound like Nelly. Yeah, maybe that's a skill issue on my part. Lovely wife, Natalie.

You're kind of doing hud-sucker pace delivery. I kind of, like, especially when I get riled up, I tend to, I go and do like a hudson. You are a hud sucker. You are a bit of a hutsucker. Yeah, I'm a little bit of hudson. Hey, buddy. Hey, buddy, my, my love, my, my love, oh, God, I can't even do it.

Maybe what is the one of us who could successfully exist in a comedy like this and deliver the dialogue. Hey, buddy. My, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't do an impression. I can't do an impression of it. I couldn't the, the, the, I would get in my head. I can't, I'm a stuttering man. I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, the, the fast, the, the, the rapid fire delivery of this thing, I couldn't do it.

Uh, they've set a buzz by this point in the movie. A little bit I love. And this is just like the, I, have you guys seen Preston Sturge's movies? Yes. Yeah. So like, my mom when I was sick and I was a very sickly child and was home sick a lot would be like, If you're sick in bed, you have to watch, like, a classic movie and would try to make me watch, like, serious films. And I was a little fucking brat and would usually be like, this sucks.

Happy Gilmore, which had not yet been canonized as a classic. Well, as a child, that feels like work. And you're home from school and you're not supposed to have work. Don't make me watch some black and white dog shit. What do you think? I'm going to be a movie podcast or someday. I don't need to watch this bullshit. But Sullivan's Travels, I have this very visceral memory of my mom showing me when I was, like, 10.

renting and being like oh fuck this is funny this is like an old movie but it's funny and then film forum here in New York City would do like Sturge's rep series of all his films every couple of years so like over time I'd seen almost

all of them and grew to be like this is like exactly what I want to have a comedy film these are the funniest movies of all time and one of the things I love about them is like every character has this sense of a deep inner life every guy feels like you could just follow them for the rest of the movie

and something fascinating is going on there and even if it's a character who exists to just execute one recurring bit there are weird like gives or contradictions in it and the buzz thing where it's like is this guy for real he's got this whole fucking rehearsed routine and he's doing all this

choreography with the hat and he's got these rhymes for every single person who steps onto the elevator and he's like calling out the rhymes with their names and the floors and then he says like Mr. 11 Floor 37, it goes 36, he goes, walk down. This idea that Buzz will fucking make people change their routines in order to fit his rhymes.

That is so on point that there's just, I would love to follow Buzz. Right. If Max came out with Hudsucker proxies and you follow the story of all the Hudsonucker proxy, people, proxies plural, I'm saying. And we got to see, I would, that's, give me that, give me that streaming. All the boardroom guys. the eyebrow guy there's so many there's so many characters

that you just get a glimpse of that you want to see more of Pud sucker proxy honey bunny they get so many beats out of the stakes of the blue letter including with buzz in the elevator and just like that's when he finally is shaken out of his

autopilot I love that and then the woman who ends up on the fainting couch it's so great that's like my favorite kind of Cohen joke which for a movie that is so verbal

and they are they will do these visual gags that aren't even about like crazy physicality that are like this woman's ignoring him he finally like gets her to notice the blue letter the woman on the latter screams and then the next

cut he's in the office and in the background you see her getting fans so funny right and it's like that's like Simpson's level of like visual like joke density Ben I forgot to ask you if you like this movie because you know I know with a multi-guess pod you tend to take a back seat

but what do you think of Hudson Zucker I loved it. You've seen it before. Yeah, I'd seen it before. It's so silly and fun. It's like a film of theirs that I, I know I saw Fargo first, Big Lobowski, but I think this might have been like maybe the third or fourth of theirs that I saw. And it still holds up. It's a blast. Yeah. And I think you guys keep calling out the Simpsons. And that really does feel like the energy of the Simpsons is really in this. Even down to just like there's so many. fun little like word written jokes like what comes to mind is when um what's his name uh paul newman's character towards the end is writing different variants of what the company's new name will be yes very simpson he lands on sid sucker yeah yeah what was it the what was the burger one there was a burger there was something burger uh hudzburg i think it was maybe huddburger yeah But also when you look at like when Norville's reading the classifieds and when he's looking at the job boards, it's like every single thing written there is funny. Right.

Yeah. The job board thing is so cool. Do you think anything like that ever existed? I hope so. Okay. I want to believe it's based on something. He goes into Musburger's office to deliver the blue letter. Musburger immediately goes like this guy could be a good fucking.

And then we have we have the stitch joke. This is what I'm trying to tee up. Yes. But this idea that, like, Musburger immediately pegs him as, like, you're an idiot, then decides that he's maybe a little too smart or a little too dumb or a little too arrogant, like almost passes him over. Another, like, just beautifully executed, executed visual gag is, you know, he accidentally, like, starts setting the contract on fire with the cigar.

Him with the foot, his foot in the fiery bucket is so funny. But actually him removing the top of the water cooler. in one sustained shot, holding it the wrong way, trying to get over there and the time he makes it over there, it's empty. And all of this leads to obviously

the trash can on fire, him kicking out the window, the hole, the wind sucking him out, Newman falling to try to catch the contract, and then Tim Robbins catching him by his foot. I, the last time I saw this movie before,

revisiting last night, saw it at the Metrograph with a friend of the podcast, Michael Tiberski. Shout out Michael Tversky. Two Christmases. Is he coming on the pod? Anytime.

Well, not any time. We should probably set up a schedule. Okay, we'll set up and schedule a time. I guess we'll get the fuck out of yours and get diverse game. Bring him in. What if we just never stop pocket? I've done this movie, but every few hours we're like, all right, you guys go. Someone else is coming.

We release it as Hudsucker Proxy Dead Reckoning Part 1 and Hudsonucker Proxy Final Reckoning. Never mind. It's not a doughboys episode anymore. We change clients. I when I saw that time logged that I think this is my favorite gag my favorite joke in the history of movies you love yes I saw that log and I stand by it as there is not too overly dissect the frog right but the internal logic of the joke and also the like construction and execution of it of Newman's hanging out a window by his leg right we get the extreme close-up shot of the pants starting to rip you cut to Newman's face oh no like

sort of Wayne's world flashback of him being Taylor measured up a character that I think is always funny which is a little Taylor a little I think that's a great Italian character like Taylor oh sir don't you know like I just think that's funny I love it to make it the pants like he's

just so like just like the refinement of it and then also the kind of old fashioned is kind of the yeah it's so funny Now, when I see this for the first time, and Charles Durning is third building the opening credits, right? And then immediately kills himself. Griff, I, this is my thought when I just watched it. I'm sure.

I was like, that's such a funny joke to bill someone that prominently and then just have him immediately after the billing kill himself without saying a single line of dialogue. I know Paul Newman has the end. He's hanging out the window. Pants start ripping. Flash back to the tailor saying, ah, how about the double stitch? double stitch why to give a pad your account single stitch will be fine right and you cut back to Newman being like oh no

fatal mistake and I go this is so funny they're going to kill Paul Newman right away again they're going to do this bit a second time and what a classic movie like this guy's fatal undoing he could have saved his own life if not for the fact that he told the guy

and plot wise I was like oh it makes sense greed like it makes sense like Paul Newman's going to die and then he will still be the head of the company or whatever. That's what makes him be the head of the company is that Paul Newman, right. And then you cut back to a second flashback. The double flashback. It's so funny.

And the guy, as you said, it makes no sense, but the guy while sewing, he starts doing the first 5% of the waist with single stitch. As Newman told him and goes, oh, what the heck, Mr. Musburger's such a nice man. I'd give him the

double stitch for free. And then the pants Stop ripping at exactly that point. Do you guys get a double stitch? Which is not a thing, of course, that I've ever heard of before. And I only associate with this movie. But if I get a suit made, should I now be like, make sure double stitch? In case you fall out the window.

Exactly. By the way, Chekhov's banana did go off. I just wanted to let people know. I mean, because we've been podcasting for a long time because our show is ridiculous. No, I mean, I swear to God. Okay. So, yeah, that's all funny. But it's just, I like that it's playing.

with the fucking language of what we expect the bit to be and then undoing it in a way that it's just like it's so funny and he's not nice to him at all no he's an asshole no there's no reason for him to do this right he only does it because it's a funny gag yes it's great I love it and also who's getting that flashback

because it's a memory of just the old tailor it is interesting to think about like this the Simpsons are so influenced by this same eras of movie comedy that this movie is riffing on. And like things in The Simpsons like the Mm Yes guy are like direct quotes of like Sturge's stock company players. A lot of the like big archetypes of Springfield, even that notion of like this character exists to continually come in and just do this one bit. This movie has the Texan businessman for one scene who's so funny, which is like a Simpsons character. That's a Simpsons guy.

Right. Right. I wonder like we're so funny that he says like, oh, you know, people run for cover and he's like, yeller, you're calling me, yeller? Like that that's where he goes to. Yeah. But this notion of like, is there any era in which this movie would have worked, right? You're like, at this point, there are five seasons of The Simpsons on air doing a similar style of comedy. And yet I think it is easier for people to swallow an animation. Of course. This movie is off putting to 90% of its audience like first run like right away. I think. think. I think just most people are probably immediately like, now, fuck off. Like, I right? I'm not saying because it's bad. Yes. Just because it's a lot. Yes. I don't think

there's any, I can't believe that they ever thought this would be a success, I guess is my thought. Like, there's, that's the crazier part. Yeah. That's what's kind of a, and I guess it's like, you know, so much, so many, so many things like this that are so great and so unique

exist because of a mistake. And that, that's just like here, just like the wild miscalculation to think that this would connect with mainstream audiences on any level when it's so dense and so inscrutable. The sight and sound reviewed by the dead man that I quoted earlier,

that same guy said that the single funniest joke in the movie is that it was made for $40 million at Warner Brothers with Joel Silver producing. And he was just like, the film is such a failure as a comedy that the only funny thing about it is, why did they think this was worth making? Which is sort of true. But I also like that

there is this, not I think, like a deliberate self-knowing way, but there's this self-reflex of quality to the movie of like this film existing is like pitching the hula hoop. Like how the fuck did this get all the way to the top office? So what you're talking about is so yes,

there's so much dialogue it's so like just absolutely jam packed with verbiage up until the moment like up through this sequence where he's hanging out of the window and then we go from that straight to

like next in chronologically in the movie is just a totally nonverbal stretch of just character like all the care the business laughing right right which is very Simpson'sy as well like it's like three minutes of cutting from

locational location as they groom him to be a CEO and present him to the press and it's just everyone laughing hysterically but this is part of why for me this movie is immensely watchable is because it's not just like his Girl Friday you know style dialogue

for its entire runtime you know what I mean? Like it has these moments where it just kind of like lets itself breathe for a bit and and just sort of like it's communicated purely visually. And it's not a long movie. No. Like every Cohen's movie, it basically like

is in that sort of hour 45E range. You know, it's not. Which at this era most comedies are maybe closer in 90. Sure. I guess it's a little comfortable comfortably paced compared to Ace Ventura. Right. How long is Ace Ventura actually? Let's find out.

an hour 26 that's how you do it with credits yeah with credits um we're we just had we hit one hour over ace mature right now at the time sorry mitch i'm really sorry i'm not so i no i i'm sorry oh you don't have to be sorry but i'm sorry i'm we we we're coming here to the long nap baby like great people come on our show which i really love and appreciate that they do and then like you'll some not you guys not today not us you know definitely not us no yeah This is just some trash that blew in. No, but then you'll just see him. Like, I think you'll see it in their eyes sometimes,

but they're like, oh, huh, this just keeps going, huh? Like, we don't stop. You brought in two chairbreakers today. Mine's yet to break, but it will at some point. Thank God we got the double stitch on that. My chair got the double stitch. Mitch is such a nice guy. Griff making my chair before the-

He needs a good seat. It's such a nice podcast, though. I like when you, speaking of runtime, I like when you watch like a, like you put on a movie like Master of Disguise, which is like the runtime is like 78 minutes. Hell, yeah. And then he, and then that includes like long credits

and then like a post credit scene where it's like, you're still here? What are you doing here? It's like they had to pat out this runtime as much. We were getting lunch before the record and Space Jam was playing at the TV and Mitch you were like, I can't believe how long this opening credit sequences. And I was like, the end credit sequence has like

four whole music videos. And the movie with both of these credit sequences is like, under 80. I fucking love it when something's short. It's so good. It was fine. I think it is the whole, I believe you can fly song, right?

Is the opening credits? It's so, or, uh, I, no, that comes in at the beginning. Uh, it, that's, come on in jam and welcome to the jam. Oh, okay. But they play that entire song in the opening credits. It's so long. And credits, I think they do. I believe I can fly again.

They do for you, I will. Okay. We did a whole episode. I also said it was, I think I said it was a masterpiece compared to the new one, too. with no disagreement here David any wipes updates? No I bought the wipes I mean it's a pack of 12

you know it's a box of 12 wipes it's one of the heaviest things that gets to deliver to my house on a regular basis wipes weigh a lot here's another thing I like in this movie it is very unclear what the hud sucker company does right they make do hickies I feel like they make

widgets right but it's also sort of like they're a business company right the opening monologue right before Durning throws himself out the window is just him explaining how huge their business is, but it's basically just defining like our stock is doing so well, mergers

and acquisitions, like all this stuff. They've just become this behemoth that like society rests upon and yet actually gives nothing back, it seems like. No, it's it's like the way like a, you know, like a sketch written by a 25 year old like UCB writer who's never had

a job. We'll try to like set something in a boardroom and approximate the language of the corporate world, but with no actual specifics. That's what that's going to say. It's like, yeah, a do-hicky company runs that way. Waymo does not have a mail room where there is multiple mail slots. But that's right. It's like the metaphor is this is like society, right?

Because it's like, that's why the clock, I feel like becomes it's like, yeah, all of reality is this building, basically, because when the clock stops, everything stops. And obviously you don't see that much outside the walls of the building, but you don't get the sense that like everyone is using and loving Hudson. sucker products. I think it is pointed that the Hulu Hoop is the first thing that people seem to have any affinity for. Like this movie is not

doing the Wally bit of like, oh, everything has a buy and large logo on it, right? There's not this sense of like, oh, Hudsucker has a monopoly on every product. It's all like they make something, but who knows what the fuck is. Yeah, it's funny to not see it too. It's great. Like, I don't need to see what

else they were doing. Like, the fact that this weird company could make a Hulu hoop in a bendy straw is great. It's bizarre. And it brings everyone closer together. Well, I should say, it adds more value to the hula hoop. That's not just that's selling so well,

but that people are like given joy from it. Minute 30, like right after the laughing montage, you basically cut straight to John Mahoney. Yeah, so it's a little side plot. I mean, Mahoney never leaves this desk, right? Bruce Gamble never leaves his chair.

The little newspaper, the Argus, the Manhattan Argus. Obviously, you know, all the daily bugle stuff in the Ramey Spider-Man movies is riffing on these same kind of like Hoxian newspaper comedies. But I do watch these sequences and especially his first monologue

if not, then since when, you know, all that sort of like back and forth talk feels like him seeing you could do this in a modern comedy and still have it work. You know, Mahoney's amazing in Barton thing, obviously. And he's amazing in this. And he never did.

another Cohen's movie and it's sort of like there's a lot of guys like that who the Coens clearly liked and used like two or three times and then they moved on to new guys and they had you know like they were they were doing something different. I also got sucked into the Frazier sphere and I think when he was off season wanted to focus on doing plays.

He did a lot of theater. Yeah. Frazier started in 93 so that's certainly a big thing of yeah, you know. Yeah. But he's great. Bruce Campbell looks so fucking handsome in this movie. He looks like comically pretty. Yeah, he looks fantastic.

As does Jennifer Jason Lee, obviously. But much like the Paul Newman reveal. As is Anna Nicole Smith. Yes. As does, Mike Star. Anna Nicole Smith reveal also great. It's really funny, genuinely, really funny. But like with Musburger, it feels like Jennifer Jason Lee appears from nowhere, right?

Like, you have this whole extended monologue, all these gruff guys. I like the guys who bet on her Pulitzer. You know, that gag always gets me someone where they're like, I won the bet, and then the bet. gets reversed. That's always funny. And you, it's funny. Yes. You have the basic setup of no one has an idea of who this guy is. They need the story and she claims she bets her

Pulitzer on it. She stakes it that she will get to the bottom of this and so she's going to try to honey trap him in order to find out who he is, which then leads to my favorite scene in the movie, which is the light lunch scene. Wow, that's your favorite scene in the movie. It's because of the Monty High.

The Monty High fight song part. No, that's before that. At the diner. Oh. I think it is such an ingenious way of them having their cake and eating it too of like the funny meat cute that everyone knows how it's going to play out. So rather than have the audience roll their eyes and how cliched it is, you have two characters who basically are just like, we know the fucking rules of this universe. We like sit here all day and we watch these other movies play out that we're never the lead characters in. and we can predict every move of what they're going to do. And they're betting just like the two guys in the newspaper office of like,

is she going to do this or that? And it's all framed as just these two guys have terrible indigestion, right? It's bookended by these two guys just needing to shit so fucking badly asking for Bromo. And then this like genuinely kind of romantic like fucking con that she's pulling to trick him into thinking that he's like met a nice girl for the first time. I've never related to characters more than those two guys. The Burmao guys. Yeah. Me and you now, through this whole podcast probably. We ate a

huge meal before we came here. We had smoked putteen. We had smoked. We did have smoked pudding. You had the protein too? We got it for the table. Oh, you got it for the table. I loved that this was a very funny interaction between you two that Griffith's like, best putteen in the city. And you were like, yes, because in New York City you really need

the best putteen. Famously known. Four hundred, Smosa's like I really come to New York for the Canadian food I could amend that in safe because it's French fries with a bunch of shit on it yeah it's the best food they cracked the code on that one no I could have amended that I'm like guys guys do you want me to like plug you into like the best Malaysian food or whatever and Griff's like if you want protein just put micro you know microwave some cheese on your fries in the hotel because you need curds you need the curds yeah you need the

curds I love a curds yeah to be clear you do like the Moncy High cheer I'm sure you do I know you do. Yeah, it just came at a different time. To your point. I can't believe you guys haven't blown up this bathroom if you guys had fucking Milan Poutine. That's my Chekhov. Chekhov's turd. Chekhov's turd.

He almost called it that. It was almost Chekhov's turd. And then he's like, you should make it a gun or something. Joel's Pilbberg was there. Checkup, make it a gun. Sorry, I was talking about the Muncie High. Yeah, that's the next scene, right? Because she faints, she faints, fainting, and then he carries her upstairs, and then they have that whole interaction. Claims to me from Muncie, she gaslights him into hiring her. Griffin said

to my point, and I thought he was going to say something cool about something I said. No, that I like that the arc is sort of her realizing, being charmed by his sincerity. She's like, he's a small town rube, and by the end of this, she's like, he's a small town rube, you know, it's like she understands what's good about him. It's also what I think Jennifer Jason gets really right in her performance. I think a lot of people misunderstood at the time of like, oh, she's doing this weird affectation

of doing this very stylized performance. It's very throwbacky. And she seems a little uncomfortable in doing it. But the whole point of the character is that's a fucking act, right? That like she needs to do this whole routine of coming in with these fast talking monologues and like doing prop comedy, taking the cigarettes out of guy's mouths, so that everyone takes her

seriously in the office. And it's not like what she really wants is just to get married and have kids. But this whole movie is kind of circling back to this idea that I think is, like, important for both of the Cohen brothers being weird versions of wife guys, that they're sort of like, what's the, like, if you just fucking chase success, like, as a, end to all means, then like, what are you left with? That all of these characters are sort of like, if you don't ever find anything that

actually makes you happy, you're going to end up on the top floor of fucking building when to throw yourself out a window. It doesn't matter what you accomplish. And that they both cut through each other in that kind of way. And it's like Hudsucker's final message that he comes back and delivers him of like, this is what ruined my life. But yeah, that she is like slowly, even though the person she is with him as someone she's pretending to be, it starts to become a more honest version of her because he becomes the one person she can drop the act with. it starts with her doing a different act and then as it goes on it starts with her

becoming like an actual genuine person with him. She takes, I mean, I was just, I was thinking of how this performance reminds me a bit of hateful eight a little bit and just the big it's another, another big it's another big, it's another big, it's another big and just another big

character. Not that there's a similar thing of she's a different person or anything like that, but it's, look, especially in the 90s, I feel like she was one of those actresses that would get credit a lot for being quote unquote brave and even in the 80s too where it was like oh she does things that other big movie stars

wouldn't want to do and that's usually code for women playing like unlikable characters getting naked doing extreme violence you know all these things it's never felt like that's something she does for like deliberate provocation I just think she's not protective

of her image in that way she's a great actor yeah she rules love her a big part of the reason why the movie works, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I do agree with you that like someone like Winona might feel more pastiche, a little more playing dress up, right? Because she's a little

younger and she's a little greener. I also think there is like an inherent sadness to Jennifer Jason Lee that serves the performance well. Yeah. Even when she's playing very big. But yes, now she's implanted as his secretary and he's at the top of the company and he's going to make his big play, which is sell the hula hoop. He has nothing on his schedule except for like, like talking at like a kindergarten.

Yes. Like he just is sitting in this giant office doing fucking nothing all day. It was very much a podcaster's schedule. It would be funny if as podcasters we had to like clock in and out of work, but a lot of our work is just like sitting there. Wow, 12 hours this week. I was still complaining

people are so mad at us so what else I'll get into that conversation with people where they're like and what did you do with the rest of your week and I'm like

I don't know read the comments Well I had to watch the movie for the podcast Yeah that's like an hour 45 and I had to find out where to rent it

that was five minutes yeah also my co-host has three kids so my life is pretty busy actually I have so many fucking kids

it's crazy guys right so if you do the math that's like me having a kid is that what you're thinking about is that what is that that's a time crunch I am frequently thinking about my children yes that is part of the time crunch yeah of course no I guess tonight I'm seeing

Mission Impossible so it's a night out it's already in the cow and also we're having a gentleman's feast we sure are afterwards I mean we're doing it all today it's quite a day for me today but I do have three children one of them just started crawling one of the twins

yeah Bob. We call them Bebob and Rock Steady. Yeah. Do you sense jealousy? Rock Steady is right behind him.

I think Rock Steady is. Rocksteady's just got a slightly more, he's happier, like, chilling. Is Bebop the bigger one? The bigger one. He has fraternal twins, but there's a bit of a size difference.

Yeah. Oh yeah. In a way that is funnier, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they've got very different vibes.

They do. They do. Can I tell you something. I have a podcast in the future. It could be. One's kind of more of a like pig man. The other one's got kind of like a rhino thing. What were you going to say?

I was going to say, I've also been called bebop and rock steady by people before. It's dunking on me. So I have that in common with it. Bulk and skull, of course, I brought up on a recent episode from the Power Rangers. You know, just like that was like in the 90s,

the children needed to see two large fools. Yeah. Who would literally like like cunk heads together. Right, who got, oh, right. And they would like, B-plot is them 20 minutes of them trying to buy groceries or something.

He-Man has my favorite version of that, which is the guy's name is too bad. And it's a two-headed henst man where they curse them by putting them together and they punch each other in the face. I don't think we should go in there, boss. Come on. What else? So he invents the Hulu hoop. I mean,

come on. Let's keep it going. He admits the Hulu. We talked about that montage, but it is I agree with Patrick's assessment. It's an incredible film within the film. But you have, before that, You get to the ball with Peter Gallagher, which is when they... Is that before the Hool- It is?

Yes. The fancy Christmas ball is. Oh, right, because that's where the investors are yelling at him. Peter Gallagher, one of the great singers. An incredible, incredible singer, obviously, like, now everyone knows him as Sandy Cohen. Sure. But he's one of Broadway's great leading men, beautiful boy. And also, owner of two of Hollywood's greatest eyebrows.

He does have those pussy willows. He was on Conan, and he referred to them as the Gallagher pussy willies. And it is a term that lives in my head all the time. He's the best. And I've genuinely heard that he's quite a nice guy, which is always great to hear. But, yes, it's Newman's trying to walk him. His guys and dolls in the early 90s.

I used to listen to it a lot when I was a kid. He was Sky Masterson. It was amazing. He's playing a kind of Dean Martinie guy. Newman is trying to walk Robbins through sabotage, right? Like, he starts saying, like, keep your mouth shut and don't respond to any questions. You know. and then it's like actually never mind reverse what I said he's trying to give him the advice he would actually give to someone he wants to succeed and then realizes right that he needs him to fail right and so Robin's like steps and it embarrasses himself in front of a bunch of people says something offensive and like Swedish and then goes out in the balcony with Jennifer Jason Lee and they have this bonding moment where it actually feels like they cut through to each other they kiss for the first time it's like explosion score swells and then you like hard cut to it is this movie being so mathematically constructed in a way

way a Coen Brothers movies are. Hulu Hoop is explained at one hour exactly. It's like at the one hour mark, they kiss, and then you go out from the blueprint in the office, and for the first time you know what the circle is. Yes. And now here's the thrust of the second half of the movie.

Right. Um, he's really hooling the fuck out of it for that whole scene too. The neck. Yeah. ankle. Yeah. Has, has he already been reported as being a dummy in the newspaper at this point? Or, or, yeah, yeah. Lies

already dragged him through the mud. Because there's, there's an imbecile. Yeah, an imbecile heads hud sucker and then the sub headline was not a brain in his head and I really liked that. It was very simsony. Yeah, imbecile heads, hud sucker is like right up there with

extra, extra Todd smells. Maybe newspapers should bring that back. Just like, we've looked into it and this guy's a dummy. Like, it was just like, that's what the story is. Yeah, there's the, there's the, just that balcony scene because yes there is there's some newsroom sort of back and forth that we that we kind of you know

are breezed by but but on that balcony there they have like some more dialogue back and forth and there is another of those moments where like she's starting to be like he's got the Shiner from the being punched by the Finnish guy they're talking about like what you could have been

in a past life and you know he says he says karma but they also is the part where she like they're talking about, you know, I think you'd be a gazelle or, you know, maybe an Ibix. And like, either way, like, could I call you dear? And he like cracks himself up, but it's so adorable. And then she then she starts talking about like, oh, but maybe it was, I was a hard sort of nosed reporter sort of like city girl, like like tries like projects about herself, right?

She's talking about herself in a past life, herself in a current life, if that was her in a past life. And he's like, no, that kind of person would come back as a wildebeester or, you know, like, it's i don't know i i i just really love all the the dialogue through there and it's just such great it it just like allows her to play the subtext so strongly and she's so effective at it i also think there's something in both of them have these kind of like preconceived biases against the type of person the other one is right that she's this like hard-boiled city girl who thinks a country bumpkin is naturally an idiot and he thinks a person like that must be like a heartless cynical monster

and that in having these weird conversations they both kind of quietly realize that like at their core they are sort of the same in the things they value and what they care about and that's sincerity like you were saying there's the sincerity in the movie

there is there it is that to that piece of shit reviewer from the 90s who's passed away rest in peace so died tragically but still I don't know anything about him He gets them to approve

The Hulu Hoop and you have this unbelievable montage A hit And like you talk about like A sketch comedy logic business company The idea there being an entire room That's just how much will it cost On like a big banner up top And guys going back and forth and just naming prices

I think it's really funny I think it's really funny The guy adds the one dollar Like that is that does seem out Like stroking their chin And that when you have have the the pitch room guys trying to come up with the name uh the secretary at the front every time they caught to her is reading a different like mammoth book she goes through war and peace and an

karenna yeah funny funny funny stuff i don't know i like i like when it's taking off and the price they like just the price goes up and up and the new sticker it's great all that stuff is fantastic i do think the second half it's really less than half but is a little less propulsive and awesome than the first. Sure, because it's the fall. Yes. And it's like, the comedy's still there. And I think the ending of this movie is wonderful, like, just visually and dynamically and

like the big fight with the janitor and Bill Cobbs and all that and like the gears. All that's great. I do, I just felt myself drifting slightly. I'm so engaged by everything up to the hula hoop being created. And it is partly because like, you need him to suddenly become a jerk. So now he's this kind of withdrawn character. And you need him to not. do anything. The straw bits

funny. Like, you know, there's stuff that's funny, like the, the asides. I also like that there's sort of... The steepishami as a beatnik is funny. Acknowledging the like the life cycle of fads, right? That this guy is so ready to coast off the success of the Hulu Hoop for the rest of time. And then you're already seeing it fade.

Right? You have the original montage. Then you have the John Goodman Newsreel of like, this is sweeping the page. He's credited as Carl Munt. His Barton Fink, the serial killer. Not the Nice guy. And he makes the joke of like, I don't see what all the hoopla is about. And then you see him try it a second time and already it's starting to fall off.

And it's when you get to Buzz pitching him the straw, he like needs to shit on Buzz in order to reaffirm his own greatness. Like he goes like, this is moronic. You see, the thing that makes an idea like, I don't know, the hula hoop so great. We're like, it's this thing that these guys need to do, which is like tell you why they're so smart. No, capitalism is good. You're wrong. And he hits him with the, you know, we don't crawl here at a hud sucker

with the saying you Paul Newman hits them. This is a great callback. I like, yeah, it's interesting what you say about the second half. I really do like the second half of this movie. All right. I'm wrong. No, no, I'm not even saying I disagree with you.

I'm more trying to like interrogated my own head is like, is it a little bit less fun? And is that just inherent to the, what you were saying of just like it being the, Yeah, it being the fall. But one thing I will say is, like, there is an overall joke to this movie, which is just how compressed the time frame is, that absolutely everything is happening within a 30-day time limit and that, that, you know, he's going from mailroom where he's being, he's getting from his

orientation in the mail room to being company president in the same day, because somewhat, because the company CEO committed suicide earlier that morning. What's the bellboy on the ride up that he was in the mail room in the bellboy? And then on the ride down with the bellboy, he is the president. He's basically the president. It's very funny. And the news hasn't even reached Buzz yet. Yeah, Buzz doesn't know.

Like, how'd that blue letter go? It's another one of my favorite jokes in the movie is when he brings Jennifer Jason Lee back. And he's like, I'm going to get you a job here at the company. And I know just where there's an opening. And he buzzes down to the supervisor in the mail room. Yeah. And he goes, hello, this is Norville Barnes. He goes, Barnes, where are you?

I've been waiting for you four days. And he goes, I don't know if you heard, but I'm the president of the company now. And he goes, I don't care if you're the president in the company. that he emphasized his president. Right, that it's just the same thing repeated back, yeah. Also, there was one thing we skipped over there was a pretty good Eisenhower

cameo. Oh, I'm saying like, that is so funny. I thank you and my wife thinks. Mrs. Eisenhower is proud of you. Because it's just, it would be, it's just so funny that it's a picture of him.

Like, they just slide in the picture of him. It's also so funny that like 20 plus years later, uh, Aaron Sorkin basically tries to the earnest version of that at the end of being the Ricardo's. That is what happens, you're right, where he's like, Jagger Hoover is like,

he's on the phone. I'm so! There's nothing weird about me. I love Lucy. And then everyone applause. Do you know Eisenhower rocks? What a weird guy? Yeah, I like Ike. I'm a fan. Yeah, I like Ike too. Yeah. Great. What's your favorite

thing he did? Are you asking me specifically? Mississippi schools is probably the genuine answer or winning the war, but But he did some bad stuff, too. Or warning us about the military industrial context, which he did. I was a fan of the White House physician announcing he had like an unremarkable shit. Wait, really?

He was just like, yeah, I looked at it. Nothing special. There was like a whole thing of, like he had a, he was sick and they were like the, they were being very cagey about it. And so the White House released, like the physician released an extremely explicit letter, just like sort of detailing what had happened and what was unremarkable about it. Sorry, Arkansas. Yeah, no, Eisenhower, like when he was leaving. the office he was like by the way like it's kind of fucked up that the military and like big

business are kind of like you know turning into this big evil thing that's gonna like kind of take over society and i call it the military industrial complex anyway i'll see you later and everyone's like i feel like he's right about it and then like no one did anything about it you know i like about him i like him in this movie i don't know i just i like his hudsucker work i don't know too much of his other work yeah i'm not really that familiar but he's great i like that picture where he looks really fabulous. Do you know the picture I'm talking about? Which one? There's this picture where he's like serving and

the internet got kind of obsessed with it. Oh, I never saw this get memed. That's a great picture. Oh, that's great. It's just like a picture of him in his uniform. Yeah. Do you guys know about the Peter principle? Explain. And now it was originally in the clock. Now I did do an Eisenhower bit. It was a family guy thing? A book that was originally meant to be satirical. Isn't it? It's like the stupider you are, the higher you rise and

But it's something like that, right? It's basically saying that everyone will succeed to a level of relative incompetence at the higher level companies. You get promoted to beyond your competency and there you shall stay. Basically, everyone gets overpromoted like one time in organizations like this, past their actual ability. And then rather than ever getting demoted or fired, the people just stay there. So the higher up you get, the worst people are because that's where people kind of like hit their limit. Yeah, I've heard of this phenomenon. I haven't heard of the Peter Principle specifically.

There was also the Dilbert principle, isn't they? Tell me about it? I don't know. But wasn't that? All neckties must go. Oh, I'm sorry. It actually, remember how, like, first it was like, they just put out Dilbert books of the strips. Right.

But then Scott. We would read them and go, God, this guy sounds like such an alpha. Whoever's writing these. That he's got a chiseled torso. The guy drawn Dilbert must fuck so good. But then he would also write, like, management comedy book. Like, like text books. That was actually the early warning sign.

The Dilbert principle. Right. And it must have been like joking about like a riff on the Peter principle. But we should have known at that moment the second that the guy took the success of the comic strip to be like, but actually Dilbert's serious. Yes. I have things I want to say about corporate culture. I know he's, you know, a bit of an online figure, Mr. Scott Adams. Was he always a weirdo or is he one of those classic like 10 years of Twitter, Robin's brain and all that?

Always bad has only gotten worse. He was also always super online. Right, of course. He was like a pendulum. Before no one was online. Like very, very early internet, like Usenet, you know, use groups. But he wasn't like a, like a Dennis Miller hard swing after 9-11 guy. Yeah, sure.

Ron Silver. Graham Linahan or any of those guys who would like have a moment. Graham Lina is something up with that? Yeah, he went from being funny to really funny. Dilbert, the cartoon. Good. Incredible opening credits. Yeah.

One of the best. That was Larry Charles ran that film. It's pretty funny. Yeah. Dilbert was good. But yeah, great theme song, great animation in the opening. I like Dogwort.

Dogbert's funny. He's a dog with classic. It's like mean. Is there, is there, is there? Oh, you never saw Capper? I didn't know about Capbert. My whole thing is that I would read those comics. And Capbert is the HR guy.

Like that's the joke. And like, and I'm just like, what the fuck was like 11 year old David being like, ah, yeah, HR always on your ass. Like, what did I? Why was I? Patbert. Remember Capert?

I remember catbert. Yeah. And then there was Ratbert. I can't remember Ratbert specifically. And then there was a dinosaur. Okay. So this, so this,

they started adding more new characters as the, well, I think a lot of the, the, initially Dilbert was heavier on the, the animals. And a lot of them got kind of pulled back. Oh,

he kind of built out the humans. And there's, then there's the little past, like there's the boss and the lady with the triangle hair and all that. Jason Alexander was catbert. Chris Elliott was dog, I'm sure they were great.

Yeah. And Daniel Stern was Dilbert. Yes. Right. Yeah. That's a damn good cast. Bring it back. Yeah.

Yeah, bring it back. Money flowing to Adam. Like, is Dilbert still running? Like, can I read a new Dilbert? And he, like, writes it? Great question. Yeah, that is a great question. And it's not insane.

It has to be insane. Yeah. There's no way it's not insane. Is he just like phoning that in and then all day he tweets? But then Dilbert is just like the pointy hair boss being like, do those emails. Milbert's like, ah, fuck this. Okay, here's a question. Would this movie have been a hit?

If Dilbert was the star? If three years later, the script was repurposed into a live action Dilbert movie, that it's basically the same film but mapped onto the Dilbert cast. So Paul Newman is playing Catbert, I guess. Tony-haired boss? Oh, point-haired boss. So I clearly don't know Dilbert as much as you guys do it. I'm shocked that you guys know as much as you do about Dilbert.

Oh, my God. Dilbert. There is no Dilbert. you know, new Dilbert cartoons and if you go to the website there is a drop down. Why did Dilberg get canceled? If you believe the news,

it's because I'm a big old racist. Context, no news about public figures is ever true. So, you know, he's doing great. He's doing all right. Hudson Zucker proxy, Griff, any more on this? Any more on this?

No, you have like the rapid fall. The only sequence every time I watch this movie that I bump on in question if it's a mistake is the weird, a Tim Robbins dream sequence that feels like a guest jeans ad or something.

Is that the dance sequence? Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what's going on there? Exactly, I don't. It just feels like an odd stylistic swing. Sure.

Yeah. Away. I guess it's in the start of his spiral down. And it might be one of those things, again, as an audience member, maybe in 1994, where you're kind of like, how many more sort of switches in format? are you going to throw at me?

You had the newsreels, right? You had the big band sequence. Like, where it does start to get a little overwhelming. I love a buzz. I love buzz chasing after him with a big mob. That's all great stuff. The ending is, the ending stretch is an insane stretch, but I love it. So I just checked it.

It's she comes in. He's like hot shot. they the people have the old-timey hand massagers on his face love those oh i love that you put on your fingers yeah motorized glove that's great those are great right and she slaps him in the face because of how arrogant he's become then he goes in the dream sequence and when he wakes up it's like everyone's gone the office is dark and that's when buzz pisses him the straw the straw thing right and all that and then but then he gets immediately after that right it's it's him being called into musburger's office right or the big board room after the golf trip

and he's like, Buzz claims that you stole his idea for the hula hoop, but that's not even the real problem. I figured out who the reporter is. You let her into the henhouse. You're gone. We're going to have you declared and sing. Right.

And we're having you institutionalized and then he's at the beatnik bar with Bishammy. A detail I love in that scene is that it feels like the most genuine moment from Newman and his performance in a way is he's saying,

you know, Buzz says you stole this idea. And by the way, there's no problem with that. you know, he's nothing. People like that need to be put down. There's this moment of him talking to him as if he were a real executive. Like CEO to CEO. Where he's like, by the way, if I respected you, I would tell you that the right thing to do is to start treating people like shit now.

Even though this has all been a setup. But yes, then it's like precipitous fall. Yes. And then we're on to Norville's suicide. You know, we're on to he's drunk and he's going to jump. It does happen pretty quickly. Oh, it's very rapid. Like the last, yes.

The last half of plot in this movie is 10 minutes. They send him to the head shrinker. They watch it on a film reel. He goes to the bar. He meets Bouchemey. It's a good bit of like he can't get a train. Yeah, they only serve juice, right? Right.

Juice and coffee, I think. Juice and coffee, yeah, carrot juice, maybe. What do we think of the device that clock, the janitor is an all-knowing sort of godlike figure, Angel. Right. So you have this earlier scene where Jennifer Jason Lee snooping around. Yeah. And she goes through the gears of the clock because basically the clock is the midpoint between the Musburger office and Hudsucker's office that Norville takes over. And he has this one like sort of info dump of like I know everything. I'm ahead of the plot. I know where this is going. Right. Right. Like I'm all seeing. I think it's the first time you've seen them on camera since the open narration. Yeah. Pretty much. So there's been chatting. Right. In voiceover. Can we just talk about those gears?

God, what's fucking incredible looking gears? Up there with Castle of Cagliostro as far as like a gears movie. Pramouse detective and all these. Yeah, bring back a big clock. TikTok clock versus of Mario 64. Yeah, it's right up there with TikTok clock. There's like almost nothing I love more than a big practical set where things are moving. Yeah.

And you're like, fuck, this shit is rigged. you know, like this is motorized or like 20 guys are like pulling levers to make this set operate, this like phony machinery. Is there a TikTok clock Mario Kart I think where there's like

conveyor belts going one's going one way, one's going the other, something like that. I feel like that was, I know the Mario Cart Canon last. Yeah, there is. There is. When this movie was about to come out and they were doing press and it had not test screened well and they went back for reshoots and the press was like,

is this about to be Joel Silver's costly flop? Why did he bet on the Cohen brothers? He said, like, we do reshoots in all of our movies. They have Final Cup, which they did. There was nothing forced upon them.

Warner Brothers wanted to change us. Nothing about this movie Screams studio in. I had their back. And they said, we've heard that you did reshoots to add a fight scene. Yeah. And he said nothing was imposed on us. When we were in the edit,

we all collectively agree that there was something that was missing. Right. I don't know if that means that the entire fight scene was added. Or if pieces were added, it is the one thing in the movie that still feels like from their pen, but does feel like, do we need something more exciting at the end? It's a little out of nowhere that the guy who replaces the signs on the doors is the villain all of us. Yeah. I mean, it's fine. I don't have a problem with it.

It's funny. And I like his teeth falling out and all that. Like, it's cool. There is also using them to stop the gear. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. There is the moment earlier. Were you about to say something?

no I just I like the teeth in the gears as well I love the teeth in the gears there was a there's the moment earlier where you see him looming over Musburger's shoulder as if he's the guy who's giving him the intel or approving the intel that that she's actually the reporter right which ultimately leads to his as a downfall so I I think that they are trying to see at least some sort of shadowy figure but but again just everything's so arch that I think I do think it feels like he is the literal devil like it's like we have one character who seems to be

God. Bill Cobb is like an angel. He basically, right. He says, like, I know just about everything that happens, at least within this building. And it feels like him almost covering for the fact that he's admitting

that he knows everything. Great Bill Cobbs. We only lost him last year. I know. He died at the age of 90. Yeah. Yeah, I like all this. I think the Corn Brothers are like weirdly

underrated as action filmmakers because no country is one of the only films where they get to sort of do. They didn't make a lot of action movies, but there are basically no. one better at like visual communication than the Cohen brothers. Right, the relationship between Steven Spielberg or whatever. Yeah. I mean, the Cohen's never tried to do, I guess, right, a gigantic scale action sequence probably would have done a good

job if they did. True Grit kind of has an anti-set piece like they, which is from the book. It's like it's not even like that it's the coins are peeling it back. It's like, yeah, the whole thing with True Grit is it builds to something that's quite short and sudden, you know, which rocks. Fill your hands, you son of a bitch. It's the best fucking line in any movie ever, ever said. He likes to pull the cork. He does like to pull it. I did wonder if I was like, are they going to like, is he going to pull the hand of the clock back to get them back on the ledge?

Oh, Superman style. And then, yeah, yeah, yeah. Reversing time or whatever. And then it is just funny that it stopped at just a great time and he just can fall right to the ground. That's what I like. I like the internal logic of it. Yeah. And that they realize that these kinds of comedies need the plotting of like two steps forward, one step back.

Sure. Yeah. Like, Norville gets. the office, but then he fucks it up, but then he saves it. Yeah. Where it's like, he falls, but they stop the clock, but it doesn't stop all the way. It's just enough that the fall doesn't kill him. It's great.

And what actually saves him is Hudsucker himself. And Hudsucker as an angel, come on. You get to see Hudson. It looks Halo. I mean, Derning's just incredible. I know a lot of it is just like presence and like this guy being such a pro at this point in time and the visual, but he just nails this. Durning's good.

can i can i also say that jennifer jason lee when she has her when she says goodbye to the newsroom that whole scene is when she keeps saying shut up like she says that over and over again i think very funny it's great it's great it's a great it's a great moment for her too yeah um but yeah no a hud sucker uh imparts onto him that like life is meaningless if you don't fucking care about other people if you're just pursuing success um and saves him just in time to be able to uh write the And also just calls out, like, you fucking idiot, you never open the blue letter. Right, right. It is him, right, saying, like, that is not a dangling, like, that's not a forgotten plot

thread. That is a dangling plot thread. It is time for you to resolve it. Right. Open the blue letter. Right. And what's, I, and that resolves the movie. But such a good touch within it is that he is like, I bequeath my stakes to whoever is

appointed CEO in my absence, which I assume will be Sydney. But in the weird circumstance that for some reason you place whoever else, in the chair, then it goes to that guy, that, like, Musburger, if he had done nothing, would have had control of the company. Yes, it's a good gag. Instead, he gets caught with a big butterfly net, and he goes to a loony bend.

Yeah. How all movies should end. Pretty much. Yeah. That's how Zero Dark 30 should have ended. The Chris Pratt goes in with a big butterfly net. That's how he gets Osama. He puts Osama in a stray jacket.

His eyes were like spinach. Remember how, then it was like, Oh, Chris Pratt's in like a soldier outfit. Yeah. And now it's like, yeah, of course, Chris Pratt's always in like military fatigues, like with a giant gun. It's just his normal state of being. I served with him in the tomorrow.

I'm not. And thank you for your service. Of course, thank you. You did serve in the Tomorrow Ward. Oh, boy. So the film didn't do very well, Griffin. I'm sorry to say it made one third of a black hat domestically. I just want to just to close the loop, he runs back to the fucking coffee.

shop after the stroke of midnight and does the fucking Muncie hand sign to her and I find it very right. Oh, that is nice. Yeah, it's nice. It's just like, look, it's classic movie construction thing. I just love when you can, like, create something within the language of your own movie that did not exist previously

and bring it back in and have it suddenly have gained greater emotional weight. Nick's just looking at his empty peel now. Wordless exchanges. Don't you think it's funny that the Coens have this early success. They win the Palm Doors. they get all you know like then they make kind of like what they're like a comedy for like people

you know for kids almost right where it's like we made a big budget movie for you guys that's funny and like action packs and everyone's like and they're like I guess we'll make a movie about like Minnesota people pushing you bodies into wood chippers and shit and everyone's like yes thank you right this is what we wanted from you this is more of this darker they go the more people applaud them and whenever they try to make something funnier people are like, what the fuck is this dumb bullshit? Maybe you want like a divorce you know, attorney comedy with like

George Clooney burning up. The two sexiest movie star? Can like Javier Bardem murder people with a cow pistol? Like, can we have that? Can Tommy Lee Jones like basically look to the audience and explain why maybe humanity should be eradicated? It's like anytime

they try to make a crowd pleaser people are like crowning and crossing their arms. I mean, they're two biggest flops because intolerable cruelty is, and lady, and lady, it's like, are these sort of screwball things? And that's probably why I like them so much.

I agree. And I think Burn After Reading and Hail Caesar were both kind of dismissed in the moments as being like weird. I don't like, I don't like Burn After After Brewering is a fucking masterpiece and I hope you come around. I hope I do too. Hail Caesar I love.

I love Hell Caesar. Burn After Reading is the one time where I was like, ah, this is too dark or too, like, I don't like anything about it and it's like setting it's not like I think it's like terrible but it always set my teeth on edge a little bit but Big Lobowski has undeniably become their biggest movie in the public consciousness and is basically their guarantor for life I would say at this point retroactively and at the time people were like they're making a fucking stoner comedy like this is a movie

where the like they admit the plot doesn't matter Big Lobowski now just exists as Super Bowl commercials it's going to be like Super Bowl commercials for the next like decade like Jeff Daniels goes around wearing the sweater and like doing like fucking nine six yeah basically just doing boring other Jeffs are able to cash in on any Jeff can do those Jeff Probst is drinking white Russians again

no but like I saw Jeff Bridges do some fucking like talk at some 90 seconds street Y-esque thing and he was just wearing the sweater and people were like losing their minds and it's not like he should wear Adam West wearing the Batman suit that's depressing people are like thrilled he should wear the iron monger suit he should come out in that

You guys remember this? I mean, you know, All of Cohn Brothers movies are funny to some degree. Like, but I, like, as far as there's straight comedies not connecting with audiences as much, I guess absent Lobowski, though, that's kind of its own thing. Even O Brother was sort of a, yeah, 50%. Oh, I love, Arizona. We're both in that zone. But O Brother is so eclipsed by the soundtrack in its moment.

Yeah, well, that's the other weird thing with it, like, let's do, okay, finish your point. Oh, no, no, all I was going to say is that I, like, like, I, like, like, Like, I wonder if there's something of, like, these are, they're comedies, but you, like, really have to pay attention to them. And I feel like the audience expectations for comedy sometimes are just like, I'm just going to enjoy the ride as opposed to, like, I really have to lock in and focus and, like, densely packed with jokes. Yes, that is true.

Right. They are very, yeah. And they also look too good. Like, movies like, oh, brother, looks so phenomenal, but you're like, this is a comedy. Like, this seems like important in a way. So we talked about this in our 1941 episode, right? This line of, like, if a comedy gets too expensive. Does it stop being funny?

I don't want fop, God, I'm going to do that 40 times on that episode. I don't want fop. God, the way he says fop. He should have gotten eight Oscars. I'm a dapper dan, man. I'm a dabber dan man. Clooney is, uh, is, he's my best actor that year, my friend. He's your winner.

Wow. Oh, yeah. Over crow? Yeah. Because you would have given Crow the insider art? Crow is a winner for me for LA Confidential. My favorite Russell Crow performance, the movie, the moment in LA Confidential, when he, the moment in LA Confidential when he's holding the chair

the back of the chair and he fucking snaps it off. It's so... Oh my God, it's the best. I love that movie. LA Confidential, I almost want like a tie to Crow and Pierce because I think they're both so amazing in that movie. But yes, no, I have Clooney winning Best Actor in 2000 for Obrother War Art though. I think he's so, so good.

You put Jennifer Jason Lee and you're supporting this year for this movie. Who else do you have in that category? Oh, let's take a look. Uma? Umma Thurman for Pulp Fiction, Diane Weiss for Bullets Broadway. Who won the opposite?

You were doing David Loder movie out there? Because this was the year at the Oscars that he did that. Oh my God. Because she's there

for Pulp Fiction. Helen Mirren for Madness of King George who I think was also an Oscar Amity so good. Never seen that movie. Brigitte Lynn for Chunking Express. Oh sure.

The best. Is there a, while you've got the spreadsheet open where did you nom this movie and anything else? I nominated for screenplay. Hell and I'm losing

to Pulpiction. I mean, Pul fiction is a big movie. I have it nominated for cinematography, for score, which I have it winning for. You gave it the score win. I gave it the score win and the production design win. I didn't realize how much of this was based on preexisting material where it probably would have been disqualified, even though. But that's a weird score year, dude.

It's a weird score year. 94? Yeah. Did Gump get a nomination? Because it's like Pulp Fiction is the biggest one. I have Gump in there. I have Shawshank, which is a lovely score. incredible scum i'm saying in the actual oscars right they nominated those three yeah but hans zimmer wins for lion king

okay uh it's an amazing movie year because i love hud sucker and it's not even a top five movie for me oh no it's fifth i have a fifth behind chunking express pull fiction hoop dreams and ed wood which are all movies i adore yeah um yeah they they are when they make comedies for me i feel like they tow the exact line of how expensive a comedy can look while still being funny where it feels like there is never wasted costs like something like this the money is all in service of jokes

ultimately even if the joke is look at how big this set is versus it feeling like an abuse of power or like you know hubris or whatever I'm trying to even think of someone else who makes comedies that even look close to as good as what the Cohen brothers do problem like we were talking about uh texting recently about uh how do you know the most brightly lit movie

of all time james l brooks's film that cost a hundred and twenty million dollars and takes place in three apartments right and you're like this cost like a fourth of that a third of that and i was working at the simpsons while this movie was happening like built an entire universe and has this like swish watch construction of every sequence is like so technically tight. And then even something like Raising Arizona where you're like, how the fuck did they make this on this budget? When every shot is like so intentional

and has such a specific relationship to its cuts. But I think you're right, David, that there is this weird element of the movie, them kind of optimistically hoping maybe people receive this as the hula hoop and instead people respond to it as if it's the drawing of the circle and being like, what the fuck is this? Truly no one

went to see it. It made $2.8 million. You know what I mean? It's like it opened, fine, limited. probably in like art housey places and then it's just it did not expand at all I do like this quote from Joel where he's like we want the movie

to be successful and make money obviously it's not like they're making it for no good reason but he's like but as far as being perceived as mainstream movie makers that's not particularly important to us it's not like we're doing this

so we can go do Beethoven 3 I like them thinking about Beethoven at all it's just funny to me but the movie did badly and got kind of bad when you get to the later direct of video

sequels. I just want to say that for Wait, really? Go on. Yep. They're good, you're saying? They start alternating in the later sequels between movies about characters in a universe where the Beethoven movies exist and they own the dog

who plays Beethoven and then the other every other movie is back to just people who own a dog. That's so complicated. We're going to play the box office game. Wait, they own Beethoven the dog. Sam's, we need to figure this out. You can't...

Beethoven's third is an American comedy film. I can tell you that much it was released direct-to-video. Introduces Judge Reinhold. Reinhold was coming in for the third point. I think they start alternating between Reinhold and Dave Thomas as the owner. This is the thing.

There were like two different creative teams who were making back and forth. No, Reinhold's in the fourth. What about five? Fifth, we've got Dave Thomas. Oh, well, well, well. I know, I know, but you're saying alternate. And what about six?

Well, sixth, also known as Beethoven's Big Break, seems to feature neither of them and then the seventh is Beethoven's Christmas adventure which doesn't even get

its own Wikipedia article who's in that that's how relevant I don't know if you don't know that's the first one where Beethoven has a speaking voice okay so then

Beethoven starts talking third reality decision what a swing the eighth one Beethoven's treasure trail is about the little line between his belly button

and his dick no it's uh it's about it seems to kind of like a pirate adventure so this sounds like they started taking their cues from the buddies franchise whereas you say you know air air buds started so like as a basketball playing dog and then he started playing different sports uh you know world pop and um and then so on the buddies the buddies the buddies the buddies talk and so they borrowed that but then the buddies also go on adventures they have like spooky buddies space buddy but the buddy but the buddy start out as canonically the children of Airbud who is voiced by Tom Everett Scott. And then they start to write him out and don't acknowledge that parentage. Alex Ross Perry texted, time to call out Griffin.

I told you a year ago about the absolutely insane circumstances that befall the Beethoven franchise when it reaches movies five to eight. And I told you that someday you drive David insane with this information at hour three of a podcast, at hour three of Schindler's list. You talk Beethoven and do not mention that five and seven are connected and six and eight are separate story. It just had to be acknowledged. A story in which Beethoven is a dog who has played Beethoven in all the other movies which exist. We're in the

third hour and he's dropping you insane with it. I look to you, this is crazy with you. I'm looking here. In Beethoven 11, Beethoven is a man. He's just like a guy. He's no longer a dog. Does he compose symphony? No, he's just like a regular guy. Beethoven 12, he is Beethoven.

And then Ludwig von. And then Beethoven 13, he's Beethoven, he's the composer, but he's a dog again. They finally got to the right thing. He was crazy also. I'm seeing here that in Beethoven. He's like, friff, frf, like that, like, and they're like, yeah, yeah.

I'm seeing here that in Beethoven's 14, uh-huh. He's the composer, but he is a dog and he tricks both of you guys into sucking him all. So the film came out. And then in 11, we're dogs that suck off. human Beethoven By the way I want people to know who don't know our podcast

we have a thing where a gator tricks us into so not only did you get to hear how bad our podcast is but now we'll explain to you our bit where we suck a gator off in our podcast as a southern gator much in the stylings of Tom Hanks and Lady Killer

who tricks you to suck him off the bit has now become generally people keep talking you into sucking them off. It happens just globally now. It's not just the gator anymore. The film came out

March 11th, 1994 after premiering at the Sundance Film Festival. Okay. So, I feel like there's already this sort of awareness of like, okay, this thing is not about to be an awards contender, big hit. Are you not Sundance? Didn't premiere a can? The

Hudsucker proxy premiered, of course, at Sundance. January 94. Well, okay. I might have played a can after this out of possibly out of respect. Out of respect. Because I was going to say. Because they won the Palm Door for their prior film.

The disparity between. Right. This playing at Cannes the same year that Pulp Fiction like hits and wins and causes the phenomenon of like the indie takeover of Hollywood for the next 10 years. I do think it speaks to the moment where it's like, we don't want the fucking Cohen brothers making a screwball comedy. It was. We want them making dark noir.

It was the opening film at Cannes, which is. so weird because it had come out in America but back then I used to do that yeah you know it was a little different you know movies it is crazy how much older Pulp Fiction feels than this movie I mean I guess that's a testament to me not having ever seen it I guess but it's new to you

it's new to me but it does feel like a very modern movie in a lot of ways and just I mean it's just so clean and beautiful looking too it's just such a pretty movie not that Pulp Fiction isn't of course but it's a rough for film yeah um with a smaller project so it's not in the top

five, but we're going to play the box office game. It's opening on limited screens, obviously. So number one at the box office, Griffin, is a film. I assume you've seen because it features an actor you love. Steve Martin? No. Bill Murray? But this is a guy where you've seen all his movies. No. Is it Beethoven the dog?

Nicholas Cage? Nicholas Cage? Wow. Wow. Is it guarding test? It's guarding test. Wow. Okay. Now, that's the one where he's a Secret Service agent. That's a post-driving Miss Daisy. We need Tandy vehicle. The poster is very similar. But

It's Shirley MacLean. But it's Shirley MacLean is the first lady, the former first lady. Right. She's not even the first lady. She's a sort of Mrs. Eisenhower type. I think it opens with her husband's funeral. Uh-huh. And it's like she's still assigned a Secret Service guy.

But so it is driving Miss Daisy-esque? Is she kind of a pain in the ass? I will say this. Yes, ma'am. Having recently seen Driving Miss Daisy for the first time, when I watched that film, I was like, oh, so this is like runoff driving Miss Daisy? Now I can say it is wildly superior to driving Miss Daisy. Daisy. It is improved driving Miss Daisy. It is a perfectly fine comedy. It is like a five out

of ten. But drive Miss Daisy is like a fucking two. I saw it on video once guarding Tess and I remember liking it. You watch it and you're like this is close to being really good and they didn't quite get there. It's a Hugh Wilson film who made like the First Wives Club and Blast from the past and totally solid comedies. All right. Number two at the box office Griffin. It's a film I don't think either of us have seen. We have covered on this podcast a lot of this guy's output. I thought you were going to say we haven't seen it and we've covered it on this podcast. This guy has just not made that many movies. Oh, so the majority. We did a franchise of his, which is, you know, like a big chunk of the movies. Okay. So it's a second

tier Paul Hogan vehicle. It's a Paul Hogan film. Crocodile Dundee himself. It's not flipper. Not flipper. A film I saw in theaters. Did see that in theaters and had the Pizza Hut hand puppets. I feel like you always talk about the Casper and... The Casper handpuppets are huge to me, yes, yeah, yeah. Pizza had to have the market corner. I mean, again, the flipper remake does feel like with like, Hogan, what could you do? It's like, I guess instead of like putting a cap on his head, like, you could, you know, did you do a flipper movie? It's one of my favorite

phenomenons when someone hyper-specific, weirdly becomes a movie star, and they're like, where the fuck do we put? Right. Have you guys seen Crocodile Dundee slash, do you enjoy Crocodile Dundee? I've seen, I've seen Dundee and Dundee, too. I ever watched in L.A. Dundee, I think we were pleasantly... You live in L.A. You live in to see Crock show up. We were pleasantly surprised by one.

One's good. Two, the opening is so fucking funny that we were like... Fishing with Dinners. We're also... This is like January 2021. We're losing our minds. And then two just becomes bad Rambo. Stop having jokes after the 15 minute mark. Mitch, do you have a Crock Dundee take?

Not real. I saw the first one. But wait, he's eventually in Flipper. Is that what you're saying? He did do a Flipper remake with Elijah Wood. Okay, for a few years, two years after, 96? This movie, though, is not Flipper. Is this like the Western one? It's the Western one with Cuba Gooding Jr. and Beverly DeAngelo.

It's not called Bronco Billy, but it's like the character's name. Yep. And it is thing name. Yeah. It's not like Outback Jack. It's something, Jack. You're close. For circling.

It's not kangaroo, Jack. No. No, no. Give me the type of word that the first thing is. It's a sort of a weather. phenomenon. Hurricane Jack? Close. It is. Less,

more common than a hurricane. Wind, Jack. Less common than wind. Rain, Jack. Hail? No, no. Sort of more common than hail, less common than rain. Thunderstorm?

What's, what? Lightning Jack. There we go. Lightning Jack. Lightning Jack. Lightning Jack. Written by and starring Paul Hogan. Right. That's, yeah.

Not a big hit. Your, European vacation. It was a big movie for my family, by the way. We had a good time. I haven't watched it many years. Have you paid attention to what's going on with the Crocodile Dundee direct-to-video sequels? Yeah, he's a dog now.

He's a dog. In six, he's a doll. And then seven, he's an actual crocodile. Oh, yeah. They should have done that. They should have done that before the dog. They should have made that shortcut. And they make it that the crocodile is an actor who played the dog in Beethoven.

Yeah, that's the whole thing. Right. and his whole thing is that he tricks people into sucking him off right number three of the box office speaking of films involving blowjobs that I did not pick up on there

being a blowjob until I was much older okay because I love this movie I saw it in theaters Casper? No, just Casper have a blowjob I was trying to think of the least appropriate joke I can make I might know this one I don't know actually I know I think this is too late I already invoked it on this episode

Oh then I don't know you thought it was a A blowjob joke that you didn't pick up at the time. One of the first jokes in this movie is a blowjob joke. One of the first jokes. Well, like, the first scene ends it with a blowjob. The first scene ends with a blowjob. But I didn't know it was a blowjob. Someone dips down?

Yeah, you know. Give me any. I mean, there's some comical overreaction. There's a comical overreaction to a blow job. You know, he's, he likes it. Oh, Mike, he likes it. Is it the life commercial? Is this, is it a hot shots type of movie?

It's a straightforward comedy, not a parody exactly. it's kind of a parody movie it's a very strange movie it was a gigantic gigantic kid it made a star it's very odd on rewatch I cannot believe I was obsessed with this child in 924 it's primarily it's very normal for me to be obsessed with it as a child

I literally brought it up on this episode you literally brought up on this episode it's a famous movie primarily a comedy star yeah it made it minted the biggest comedian of the 90s biggest comic act Ace Ventura Ace Ventura Pet Detective What's the blowjob joke in Ace Venture?

The first scene ends with well so the first thing in Ace which is very funny is him with the fake package where he's like breaking it and kicking it and stuff which is funny. Mark Marguley is trying to kick him out. And then he rescues the dog or the cockatoo or whatever the fuck he does and then returns it to the lady who gives

him a blow job and it's just Carrie going like, ooh, like that and I as a kid was just like I don't know what's happening right now but I love that he's doing all this funny stuff. This guy got an indoor roller coaster. I totally just think like eight year old David just being like this whatever this guy wants to do

I'm there for it. She took on his feet? Yes, I just don't get what's happening. Have you seen the newest Ace Ventura? He's a human detective, but he's a dog. So he's a dog. But he's solving human crime. He's not solving human crime. You know what's weird?

In the third one, they recreate the opening of the first Ace Ventura. Except he's sucking you guys. We're getting sucked off. Finally, we got our due. He rewards you for him doing a good job. Who, is there an Ace Ventura Jr? or something like that? They did that, right? Yes.

It's a chocolate. It is also weird. They show our hogs and we have like red rocket hogs, which is very strange. Like the little lipstick hogs. Ace Venture Pet Detective, I've talked about it before. I don't know if I'll ever do it on this show because it's just kind of like it has this nasty, you know, undertone to it. Well, right. Yes.

And then the second one is perhaps incredibly racist. Right. Yeah. But it's just such an interesting movie because it is Carrie doing that shit on top of a hard-boiled noir with like not much embellishment. Like the plot of that movie is pretty dark. We were saying that that movie was clearly meant to be the joke is it's Chinatown, but they're investigating pets and it's played straight. And he came in and was like, what if I just do all the bits on top of this? And it's so weird.

It's such a weird movie. All right. Number four of the box is a very good comedy, a black comedy that I like a lot, starring. Oh, boy. Starring, yeah, normal guy. Normal guy. I mean, the main star is, he's a, we like him. He's a stand-up comic who's becoming hot at the time.

Yep. And he does a lot of movies. And then there's a husband wife in the movie and the husband's played by a normal guy. Gutenberg? No, no, way more normal than that. Oh, oh, it's the ref. The film is the ref. It is.

Dennis. Dennis Leary. Dennis Leary. He was having his moment. Judy Davis. And who's this playing the husband here? Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm. Nicholas Frank Weiger

You gotta let this guy be Frank Kevin Spacey Oh wow With Spacey right What the hell were you doing over there You were spacing out You were spacing out And it was free of half hours

He was getting spacey No I didn't realize you're team me up What are you got over there I wasn't playing with But I was just I realized While I was talking about this one I were fucking spaces in it Hostile hostages in Britain famously

That's what it was called me Yep I don't know why I guess they were like Brits won't know What refs are I think they do That's a fun of movie though That's a really good movie. Yeah.

Demi movie. Yeah. Have you guys seen the ref? Yes, many years ago. Good movie. Yeah. And just any movie where Leary's like, ah, you fucking guys. Complains about shit.

Yeah, there's just some maple syrup in my coffee or whatever. I'm just always like, yeah, this is great. It's in my, he's in my blood, you know? Leary, I love the guy. I do too. I'm a huge Dennis Leary defender, especially that he stole Bill Hicks's jokes. I think that's the best thing you did. Fuck that guy.

Yeah. Number five of the box office. No jokes to be made about this one. One Best Picture in 1993. Forest Gump? Oh, 193. Four? Fuck. We covered it on this podcast.

It's like a four-hour episode. That's all we're capable of doing these days. Chinler's list. Ginler's list. Still in the box office, obviously. You know, after last, you know. We've also got Stephen Seagall's on deadly ground. Is that the one where he's like saving the forest?

Yeah, that's like beginning of the end for him. Right. It's the one he directed. The environmental one. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got that movie Greedy? What the hell is that?

Greedy is like Kirk Douglas and Michael J. Fox And James Wan always cites it as having one of his favorite twist endings in movies. And I've never looked up what it is because I'm like, I should watch it at some point if no one spoiled the ending of Greedy for me.

Okay. I've never seen it. I don't know. Maybe there's a pleasant surprise. Number eight, most quotable comedy of all time. Hello. Of course, that's Mrs. Dalfire. number nine is a film called Angie That was a hint I gave in a box office game many years ago He said it's really quotable and I said give me one of the quotes

And Ben's response was hello Hesso Angie, it's a Gina Davis movie Never heard of it Martha Coolidge movie though And number 10 There's some random movies in this box office A movie called Eight Seconds which is a John

Gene Aveltson biopic about a bull rider. Yeah, yeah. Where it's like eight seconds is the the length of time you have to stay on your bull to get a score. Starring whom? Luke Perry. As a rodeo legend. Who's the second leading that? Stephen Baldwin.

That's why I was looking it up. Do you know Stephen Baldwin has a movie podcast now? Oh, is it good? Normal? It seems normal. But I keep getting- No, it can't be normal. What are you talking about?

It seems very strange. But I keep getting fed fucking clips in the algorithm. And then I was like, I got to chart his career. and that's why I saw this movie Hey, did you ever see the movie Nine Seconds? The Bull Rider In nine seconds

The Bull Rider He's not human anymore Oh, that's wild Yeah, do you know what he is? The Bull Rider? Yeah. Can you guess what he is? What is me?

A dog You think you would be a bull, maybe. I'd love to see a dog ride a bowl. That'd be amazing. Yeah, you'd love to see You should see 10 seconds. One bad movie with Stephen Baldwin.

Yeah. Bad movies. We all love them. Does he talk like that too? No, he talks like that. Because he's like Bernie Rubble. Yeah, right. He was the second Barney Rubble.

But that's what he sounds like. His regular speaking voice was like, yeah, I remember I was making movies. He's bad in usual suspects. And everyone else in that movie is good. And at the time, you're kind of like, oh, well, he's just being big. And then you rewatch you're like, no, he sucks in this. They talk about, because Alec was on recently and just dragged his brother for like two hours. Right.

I mean, he's a shitty actor. And was just like usual suspects blows up and everyone's big and Spacey wins the Oscar and everyone goes on to greater things. And then you're Barney Rubble. And there's this notion, he'll talk about another episodes where he's like, you know, and everyone wanted me to be the next Tom Cruise and I want to go a different way. And it was just clear that everyone was just like, we know what you're sealing is. You're not even as good as Billy Boblin. Here's the script to bio, though. Yeah, right.

But one bad movie is setting itself up like it's. How did this get made? And then, like, every clip I've seen is just him having other kind of middling 90s former movie stars on and them complaining about their falling career. That sounds good. It's like him and Jamie Kennedy and shit. Is he right wing or is he very hard-course? He was like the first guy to endorse.

And super, super. And Billy is left-Catholic. Billy is left-wing, right? Yeah. Billy is doing the best of all. Yeah. And he's a good actor. Yeah, he is.

Billy Baldwin's a good actor. Is Billy the new Baldwin? Billy Baldwin's time. I put forth the argument recently. What if I push my chips in on Alec now? That Billy has by default become America's top Baldwin. I think so, yeah. What about James?

Or no, sorry, Daniel. Daniel's a heroin. James Baldwin is the legendary novelist, of course, but it's not a Baldwin brother. Adam Baldwin also not a Baldwin brother. Right, but politics. Yeah, he's great. That was, Adam Baldwin was the first example of me following a celebrity on Twitter.com back when Twitter was like, you know, posting pictures of your breakfast or whatever.

And I was like, oh, this actor I like. He was just all day, like, tweeting right-wing shit. And I was like, oh, what a bummer to learn this. I almost sent this to you guys, but Deadline had a story the other day that was Daniel Baldwin joins cast of Jurassic Rebirth. And I was like, what? He was like, oh, they're making some fucking rip-off movie. David's played the clock.

Oh, my God. Just called Jurassic Rebirth. And they're like, if we take the word world out. Wow. Will people mistakenly watch this? That's good. Yeah. That's good.

He, I think at Daniel Ballroom, he's the star of Cleaver. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, of course. In The Sopranos. Right. He's the star, he's Tony Soprano. Yeah, no, Daniel is. Daniels.

Yeah. And it makes sense in world. You're like, yeah, that's who they could get. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Guys, thank you for being on the show. Thank you for.

You guys got anything more to talk about? How's it can proxie? So we, I had a. You had a coffee date like 45 minutes ago. Here's the thing. I scheduled something with. a mutual friend. Yeah, we got to go, Griffin.

Yeah, we got to get to Mission Possible. Oh, my God. Yeah. Texted me fully, because we're supposed to meet it at 45 minutes ago we were supposed to meet, texted me fully 50 minutes ago, any sense of how much longer you guys have box office game started at least. I replied that the box office game hasn't started yet, which it would not for another half hour.

His response was, LMAO, these motherfuckers. This is someone we work with, by the way. Yeah, I'm really sorry. I wanted to stand. Speaking of us with utter contempt. I'm going to pee again because we are going to have to death. Thank you for being here. Everyone should listen to doughboys if they're not already.

That's kind of years. I mean, it's very funny. We come on the show and you guys are both very smart and we're like, duh, and then we go off about dogs for replacing humans in Beethoven movies. That's all we can really add to the conversation. We're very dumb.

No, you guys are. And he likes to pretend like he's smart. Like he's the lagger. The podcast is dumb and a lagger. I know a lagger prize to pretend that he's smart. that. We figured that. Mitch tries to pretend that he's dumb.

He's actually a fucking genius. He's just so smart. He's as smart as shit. You know what else is really smart? Ben. He's smart as fuck. You're so fucking smart. What?

Dude, he's so good at playing it too because he's wearing a cap and gown right now. He's holding a diploma. My fucker's a genius. It's like a really good college. I just want to say that I really liked hudder. Sucker Proxy. I'm really happy you like it. I loved revisiting it.

Great movie. I wasn't worried you dislike it, but it's for me, it's such a vibe movie that I just enjoy so thoroughly that like, I didn't want to run the risk of you being like, yeah, it's cute. Like, you know. I defy Jay Sherman to say that Hudson Sucker Proxy stinks. That's what I say. I can't think of a more beautiful way to end this episode.

I can also say to anyone who hasn't watched this movie that maybe there's one you're like skipping over if you're not. I think this one's worth watching. I mean, like, all the Cohn Brothers movies are worth watching. But, like, I would not skip over this one. It's visuals a lot. Yeah, you might end up absolutely loving it. I truly think there is no other movie that looks like this in history.

And one of the best reviews I read that I'm now forgetting who wrote it and how to cite them said, like, the technology had finally cut up where, and the budgets of Hollywood films had inflated to a point where they could make a screwball comedy that looked the way the dialogue used to sound. And everything was buzzing at that level. thank you all for listening can I just one last thing oh please absolutely um have you seen hud sucker proxy too no I haven't yet actually

it just might be confusing to some people who haven't yeah it's weird that we've gone this long and haven't talked about the fact that there was a sequel okay that's all is there anything you want to say about it just that it's

that you might be confused because the characters are dogs the characters are dogs okay Please tune in next week for Fargo Cohen Brothers' first Oscar win And as always

And I know we've gone way too long We've got to end the episode But can I just ask one final question What's more famous Hula Hoop or Frisbee? I think Frisbee You think Frisbee today Is more famous than Hulu Hoos? Because it's part of games

No one's doing like hula hooping at college Okay, but so then here's a question People do fral... What's more famous? Games or toys? You're sleeping. He's handing in his resignation papers. Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims.

Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is agent. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to Blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blankcheck special features,

for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank CheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.