Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Hurt Locker with Sonia Saraiya

Episode Date: November 5, 2017

Sonia Saraiya (Variety) joins Griffin and David to discuss 2008’s bomb action-drama, The Hurt Locker. But will filming in 120 degree desert heat affect a production? How does this movie score with audiences and critics for its portrayal of the Iraq War? What about the cinematography helps to convey the feeling of being in combat? Together they discuss the significance of Bigelow winning for Best Picture, Jeremy Renner’s career and the difficulty of putting a straw into a Capri Sun.

there's enough bang in there to send us all to Jesus. If I'm going to die, I want to die podcasting. Great. Comfortable? Is that the line? Comfortable, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. Hello, everybody.

My name is Griffin Newman. Just drinking your pink coffee. Pow. I just shit my pants. I'm David Sims. This is our ASMR episode. Lock the gates. This is our ASMR episode. Lock the gates. This is a Criterion edition of John Tucker Must Die.

All right, all right. Turn up the volume. What would happen if I just put that up right now? It would get louder. Okay. You know I've gotten that complaint before that our podcast isn't loud enough? Yeah. Sometimes our voices drop out a little bit because we like to go small.

That's because you start the show off by going, podcast. Hey, Ben, Ben, Ben, watch the mic. Watch the mic. You go up there. You go. What do you think is going to happen? Anyway, sorry. Hey, Ben.

Making him so mad. Who are your guys? Yeah, welcome to Blank Check with Griffin and David. I remember Damon Wayans saying, tonight I'm just going to do a jazz set. This is his favorite Marc Maron thing to remember. I don't even remember it. Has he said it many times?

He says it a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What's wrong with me? It's really interesting to watch Griffin prepare to say something idiotic. Yeah, right. It's sort of you see his wheels click. Yeah, exactly.

The gears turning. What the fuckstables? All right. All right. Come on. Hello, blankies. Blankorekans. No, don't.

We do have. No, we have. This is. I mean, it'll be too late by the time we record this. Let's get into the episode. We do have a listener in Puerto Rico who posted to our Reddit that we're the thing keeping him sane right now. Which I was like, very appreciative of, but I also was immediately like, can we help in any more concrete way? I'm glad the podcast is helping you like stay sane. But also we can send you pasta.

Right. Is there any? Anyway. Boy, that was a little jarring. But this episode goes out to him. I believe his username is ilaffalone. I don't know what his real name is. I only know him by his username, ilaffalone.

He's our Blink-a-Rican. Yeah. This is a podcast called Blink Check. We're hashtag the two friends. Yep. We is a podcast called Blank Check. Mm-hmm. We're hashtag the two friends. Yep. We are connoisseurs of contest.

What? We are contest of connoisseurs. Jesus Christ. How long is this going to take you guys? Two hours. We are contest

of champions. We are connoisseurs of context, I guess. Yeah. Uh-huh. And this is a podcast about filmographies. That is true. Directors who had massive success early on in their career in which they issued a series of blank checks.

Sometimes the check's clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. That's right. I didn't realize that Catherine Bigelow had been granted a blank check. Her two obvious blank checks, Griffin, do you agree with me? Strange Days in Zero Dark Thirty? Yeah. I think Detroit also qualifies as a blank check movie. Yeah, for sure.

For sure. I wonder how much that cost. Check bounced. But that was... It wasn't that expensive. $34 million. Still, you know. But, I mean, that was...

She had complete control over that. That was Megan Ellison just writing her check. That's true. That's true. Strange Days is her very obvious blank check movie. She's less blank check-y than... It's a good sci-fi movie from the mid-90s. The other directors we've covered. Yeah, I feel like

her checks have always been more conditional. A little more. She was also the first woman to get $100 million for a movie. That's another thing. I mean, she crosses these weird... K-19, The Widowmaker. And submarines. And first woman to win an Oscar

for best director for this movie for this fucking movie we're talking about today a historic movie a best picture

winner true how many best picture winners have we discussed on this podcast two go on this and Titanic Titanic

is that it I guess that's it right yeah pro nominated no no you're right you're right you're right Sixth Sense was numbed Titanic? Titanic. Is that it? I guess that's it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Crow nominated. No, no, you're right. You're right. You're right.

You're right. Sixth Sense was numbed. Okay, wait, but I have two questions. Also, you guys haven't introduced me. Do you want me to introduce myself? I always like the guests to talk a little bit before we introduce them. Oh. That's my thing.

My sincere bad. I was like, we're killing it right now. I'm killing it right now. We're killing it. I'm killing it right now. That's all you need to know about me. I, okay, so I have two questions one how much did

The Hurt Locker cost to make 15 million dollars so that's not much of a blank check this was not a blank check this was not this was a scrape money together any which way you can and make this little movie

kind of movie but this is so I was telling because she was in the wilderness for this movie but this movie becomes a guarantor for her this allows her to get issued a couple checks in a row. It's fucking good for her.

I love this movie, and I love her winning for this movie, and I want to tell a small story. Well, I'm going to keep telling the story. It's what happens. Carry on. So I just rewatched it, right? So I watched it when it first came out, and then I rewatched it with my sister.

Had you seen it in between? No. Same here. Okay. Same here. This is only the second time I watched it. And my sister is not someone I can get to watch movies with me all the time. She doesn't like watch things just because they exist.

You know, that's not her thing. But she just started working at the VA. She's a psychology grad student. She's an extern there. She now has patients. She has people that she provides therapy for. Some of them are Vietnam vets. Some of them are from Iraq and Afghanistan,

all over the place. Some of them are just like they were stationed at the DMZ and they now need like help. And I got her to see the movie for this reason and she didn't know a woman had directed it.

And so at the end, I like in my defense, You blew her mind. I fucking told her like four times that Catherine Bigelow won an Oscar for it, but I don't think she realized that Catherine Bigelow was a woman. Was she a costume designer?

No, seriously. Great costumes in this movie. And then at the end she was like, oh, like a woman directed it. And I was like, fucking yeah, man, a woman directed it. And that's one of the reasons it's so fucking good. I have a very similar story, and it's the thing that I always think of with this movie. But I went to go see it with Sophie Fader, my best friend, often invoked on the show.

Great person. I don't know her. You'll meet her someday. I'm sure she's fine. She's a friend of mine. Everyone should be friends with each other. We're the two friends, but everyone else can be friends

as long as they're fine landing outside of that tight circle. But during the scene where they're drawing the targets on each other's chest and punching each other after they've been wrestling on the floor in their quarters, Sophie turned to me and said, this was opening

weekend, Sunshine Theater. She turned to me and said, this is the most masculine movie I've ever seen. And I said, it was directed by a woman. And she went, ha ha ha, okay. No, seriously, it was directed by a woman. And she went, ha, ha, ha, okay. No, seriously, it was directed by a woman. And she went,

ha, ha, ha. And I went, no, honestly, it was directed by a woman. She went, I'm trying to watch the movie. Right, right, right. Enough with the jokes.

And then when it got to the end, she went, wait, it's actually directed. Like, she couldn't believe that that was the case. And especially at this moment because she hadn't made a movie in six years, five years?

Five years. Six years. Five years, six years. Six years. Six years, and the two before this had been big flops. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. What were the ones before? The two before were The Weight of Water, which was shot in 2000, festivaled in 2000,

not released until 2002, and K-19 The Widowmaker, of course the namesake for this miniseries, Pod 19 The Widowcast, of course the namesake for this miniseries, Pod 19 The Widowcast, which also came out in 2002. And those two movies bombed really fucking hard. Do you guys have podcast widows? That's such a bummer.

Podcast The Widow, whatever. Oh my God. Oh my God, yes, The Widowcaster. But in between, she did make a TV show, we should mention. Starring. We'll get to that. Starring.

Remind me. Who's the star? Jim Belushi. Whoa, really? No, that's Wild Palms, right?

Oh, Wild Palms, the miniseries, yes. Yeah, we're, no, I'm talking about the inside,

which is how she, which she got fired off of. I know, but that's how she gets to, to the script. Okay, yes, but she did get fired off of that.

But I just think we should connect the dots because for some reason, Jim Belushi has come up almost every single episode of this miniseries and seemed off topic. And that was going through the filmography and Wild Palms, a miniseries that she directed a part of, starred Jim Belushi. So guess what? All those Jimbo references on topic.

I agreed. I just remember I read an interview with her once where she was like, look, I wasn't like dead. It's not like I was not allowed to make movies. I did work on this TV show, and that kind of didn't happen for me. She directed episodic stuff. I think she did a documentary. She was sort of floating around is all she's saying, rather than, like, it wasn't like I had to, like,

break the door back down to get back into the industry. But, yeah, she had been gone for a little while, and she definitely, it had been a long time since she'd made a hit movie. Mm-hmm. Basically, 15 plus years. Yes. Because Strange Days was also not a hit. So, yeah.

The Hurt Locker. Have you introduced our guest? No. Our guest has, a great friend of ours, but hasn't been on since the Star Wars days. Oh, it's a good episode. It's because you guys don't like me very much.

That is not true. We're just pretending. We're just pretending we're friends. It's fine. It's fine. There were a couple that you were almost on. My pain about it, it's a good episode. It's because you guys don't like me very much. That is not true. We're just pretending we're friends. It's fine. It's fine. There were a couple that you were almost on.

My pain about it, it's going in the heart locker. There were a couple you were almost on. I remember... Oh my God, thank you. No, no, no. But I feel like there were

a couple times where it was floated out to have you on episodes and then it didn't work out for scheduling. Yeah, we wanted you on Catch Me If You Can, actually.

I remember that. See, I'm not making this up. There were times that we were talking about. But, You Can, actually. I remember that. See, I'm not making this up. There were times that we were talking about. But, you know, yeah. And you were going to be on the Michael Bay series that we do not speak of.

Right. Wait, is that not happening anymore? It may happen one day. Well, it was supposed to happen five months ago. Guys, get me on to talk about the island.

I have so many feelings about the island. It's unreal. Everyone wants to talk the island. That was the hottest one. I think because it's the weirdest movie he's ever made. Alex Ross Perry wants to talk the island that was the hottest one i think because it's the weirdest movie he's ever made alex ross perry wants to talk the island oh no i have

competition what if we have 12 guests on our we're not doing michael bay anytime that would actually be really funny by the way we're doing michael bay next if you're listening we're doing michael you said their names bleep it out then bleep it out, Ben. Bleep it out. As a rival. All right, we're not going to talk about them. We're going to talk about the Hurt Locker.

Of course, we're talking about cereal. Come at us, cereal. Don't bleep that out. Yeah, yeah, leave that in. Leave that one in. Bleep the first one out. Cereal. Also twisted, also fingered.

Do you still even have that one? Yeah. Sorry, Sonia. We've been real silly. No, it's fine. Our guest today is a writer for Variety. Damn right. TV critic at Variety. Right.

And, you know, analyze the broken heart of Anakin Skywalker on Revenge of the Podcast. And Padme Amidala. That was a great episode. They're two broken hearts. They're broken hearts. Yeah. Yeah. That meant a lot to me,

you guys. Anakin, you're breaking my heart. Right. It was that episode. Yep. It's a good episode. It's crucial. A good friend,

Sonia Soraya, thank you so much for coming back on the show. Oh my God, thank you guys so much for having me. It's really great to be here. Really excited. have you.

I just, it was when we were talking Bigelow and we were like, and I was like, I had this vague notion. I was like, Sonia might really like the Hurt Locker. Like it was sort of just like lodged back in my head somewhere. I feel like if I've ever mentioned something to you in the past like six years of our friendship, you remember it. It might be like floating in my brain. Right, right, right.

No, so that makes sense to me. And the two of you used to podcast together. We did, although I don't know that we ever talked about the Hurt Locker or anything like that. Not that I can remember, but maybe we did. It's mostly because David's brain is everything. I kind of like to sometimes when we're like in gatherings with other people. David's brain is everything. No, there's everything is in there.

Sure. Like I'll be like randomly, I'll like call to him across the room, David, what was the 2003 winner for best picture and he'll like just say it and everyone around me is like oh my god I didn't know David could do that

and I'm like you guys this is why you're friends with David. Yeah it's a I did do a game once at a party I remember where I could name the first

and not the first first and the title of the last episode of most TV shows. Wow. You know what I mean? Because the last episode of most tv shows wow the last episode of most tv shows is usually this kind of like vague sounding title with a sense of like finality yeah i can't remember frazier so the last one yeah mad about you mad about you i have no idea frazier i do know

and now that's sticking in my craw inside shorts they finally go outside shorts how i met your mother i don't know that was after yeah oh good night seattle that's the last episode of free this work but i mean i'm thinking of like like mash the mash is uh goodbye farewell and amen Goodbye, Farewell, and Amen. Oh, right. ER is... Because that's the one with Alexis Bledel. They have such vague names. Fuck, do you remember what the last one was? For ER? No. You know what the last episode of The West Wing is called?

Oh, my God. No, I don't think I do. Tomorrow. Oh, yeah, of course it is. Something sort of amazing to me about how boring these titles get to be like the last episode

of Lost is called The End yes that one and Blackadder is just goodbye with like several E's yeah

ER's last episode is called And In The End like right it's amazing I could play this game all day Sex and the City

oh wait a minute that one I should know it's called like An American in Paris but like not that. Isn't it? I thought that was the Or is that the beginning

of the I thought that was the beginning of the Paris arc. It might be. Oh, shit. No, I'm right. An American Girl in Paris Part Un

and Part De Part De, right. Yeah. Oh, fuck that. Six Feet Under is Everything Ends Sopranos is Made in America

yes Mad Men is Person to Person Person to Person good name Breaking Bad is Felina Felina

The Simpsons never gonna happen baby never it's literally never gonna happen yeah yep yeah

could keep going all day but Blank Check should probably do this podcast right Blank Check The Hurt Locker yeah uh yep uh yeah could keep going all day but uh blank check should probably do this podcast right blank check the hurt locker

blank check the tv show which someone's gonna make someone's gonna make it um it's weird cause this this is the last episode we're recording

in this uh main series we're saying bye bye we've done this a little out of order for because of guest scheduling and I'm really happy with the lineup of guests we've had.

Yeah, it was worth it, too. But there was a lot of us throwing out to people who we haven't had on in a while or people who we have never had on before who had asked about doing the show and saying, like, which of these do you want? And no one claimed the Hurt Lock. It's true. I thought that was going to go early, but for some reason, that was the only one that no one left out.

The big one. And we weren't like picking a movie and then reaching out to people. So then we had this thing where we kept on like we had recorded every other episode. We were like, who do we get on for the Hurt Locker? And then David went like, I think Sonya really likes it. And I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. And all three of us. I mean, Ben, did you see this movie in theaters?

No. And had you seen it before recording this episode? I had seen it less than a year ago. Okay. Yes. So you'd seen it recently. The three of us had not seen it since it was in theaters. I saw it in theaters, and then I saw it again, yeah, like last weekend.

I thought of it very highly. I remembered it pretty vividly. Yeah, I remember the first half very well. Oh, God. The second half, I was a little more like, I was like, oh, God, I forgot all this stuff happens. I forgot all this stuff with Beckham. The only thing I remembered, really,

was the body bomb. Because that part is so fucked up. I did vaguely remember that. And I was actually reading about it afterwards, and that's like a very controversial element of the movie. There's only one case of it that's documented. And it didn't work right and i which is unsurprising it seems a little trick sure but i can actually see how in a movie that is otherwise

right it was seen as too sensational right yeah that this body bomb plot that then turns into him becoming like a vigilante briefly yeah right I thought that was like a very interesting choice. I was wondering what you guys think about it. Well, we will definitely get to that. Oh, yeah. Sorry, sorry. I got a lot of hot takes on that. Hot takes.

But I was reading through the Wikipedia page. I'll say, you know, going into this series, my feeling was I think Hurt Locker is a very good movie. I think it's really solid. Yeah. It's cool that it won Best Picture, but a lot of that was sort of the context of a little bit the david versus the goliath thing but that's like a cool picture winner in history best picture very surprising and still is the lowest grossing best picture winner ever yeah and that's gonna be hard to beat ever yeah and even

like even unadjusted for inflation most movies in the 60s and 50s outgrossed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to go back to the 40s to find a Best Picture winner that makes less than. Whoa. And it's just. It ended up at 14, 16. 15, I think. Yeah.

17, sorry. Like so low. I think it was 15 before the Oscars and they re-released it for two weekends after that. It was already out on DVD and then it went over to 17. But like fucking the artist makes like three times as much as Hurt Locker. And the Hurt Locker is an action movie. And I know it was also a summer

release. It didn't have the Oscar bump because it was already out of theaters by then. But it's a very, it's an unconventional war movie. I mean I think that's one of the reasons when I first watched it I remember being very surprised because I thought that it was going to be about the like political

setup of this war, like an art and more of an argument to it. I got a lot of shit for saying not a lot of shit, but a modicum of shit. I got some dingleberries for saying in our Dunkirk episode that Dunkirk was like an apolitical war movie, which feels impossible to make.

People were like, well, there are obviously political elements. There's the sense of nationalism and how it's commenting on Brexit and all this sort of stuff, which is like fine. But I think this movie falls in that same sort of category where it really is just like human character story within the setting of a war. It is not concerned with the larger implications of the war by and large. It's not excessively concerned with but it is it comes across as being very anti-war it does ultimately like like most war movies about the experience of the actual right the human toll but it also comes across as being anti-war despite being about like the most pro-war kind of guy right in a weird way without being like in a way

right in a way but what i like about it is that he seems to have no ideology he just is like he's this guy but this movie came after a run of everyone was trying to crack how do you make the modern war movie here we are we're like engaged in two wars

it's a fucking moral morass that we're all like swimming in and there's just a series of war movies that don't fucking work. Well, that's the thing. I was like, making an Iraq war movie was seen as unprofitable. Right. It's depressing. None of them had done well at the Oscars.

It had not worked critically or commercially. The contemporary Iraq war. Correct. Because Three Kings is really a great film. Three Kings is great, but did not make money. From 2003 on it was great. From 2003 on they all fucking belly flop. You go like Jarhead, In the Valley of a Loss

Stop Loss, Green Zone Yep. Green Zone's after this I think. No but you're right. Even like Body of Lies. A movie my parents really like randomly. Body of Lies is okay. It's a Ridley Scott action movie

with Leo in it. Mark Strong's really good in that. Is Siriana about this war? No, Siriana's about the 90s Gulf War. But that's all certainly same, yes. It sort of falls into the mash category where it's like about a previous war but made during the time. Right. Right.

Jarhead is also a period piece but the whole reason to make the movie at that point in time is to reflect upon the idea of war. And specifically war in the Middle East. Now of course since this movie and again this movie was not necessarily a hit. No. American Sniper came out and that is now the like money making

Iraq war movie. And gets a bunch of fucking Oscar nominations. A stirring-ish, fairly, not pro, it's not really a pro-war movie exactly, but it is certainly a bit of a gung-ho masculine movie about a hero. A hero. I still don't know what that movie is.

Yeah, well, I don't know. Clint Eastwood's weird, because he's made anti-war movies and he's made pro-war movies he has a lot of perspective on he's fetishized violence he's criticized violence he's recontextualized violence he is just one of those directors who I think is like

I'm just making a movie over here like you know I saw it a second time just to see if I could fucking crack what it was doing and I still don't know there are elements to that movie I like a lot. There are elements to the movie that frustrate me. I don't know if there's any guiding philosophy behind that. I think it's a well-acted film.

I agree with that. I'm not a huge fan of that movie. I'm not either. And then there's also Lone Survivor, which is an Afghanistan movie. Oh, but did very well. Did do very well, and that movie is brutal and bad. But both of those movies come after Hurt Locker. Hurt Locker was the one that reversed the curse

it did in a way it was the New Adventures of Old Christine it reversed the curse what a great show what was the last episode of that called the Old Adventures of New Christine obviously let's shake hands and bet

and pray that we've nailed this I've also been jinxing with guests a lot in recent episodes. Oh, no. And with me. And with you. I'm just, I'm happy. I feel like I'm really syncing with people. We're still shaking our hands.

We're still shaking hands. For some reason, the last episode is called Get Smarter. God damn it! I don't know why. It may have just gotten canceled, though. Like, they may not have had an idea of, like, this is the finale, you know. Maybe Don Adams was on the last episode. Sure was a maxwell smart agent 99 yeah crossover probably right i don't know hey you yelled off mike so i'm very proud of you thank you yelling off five

yelling off mike points thank you so the hurt locker right a best picture winner a defining film of the 21st century. And you saw it in theaters? No, I actually saw it on a couch after it came out on DVD, I think. But before the Oscars? Probably after that. Actually, I think I might have seen it before. Because it was a long time between release and Oscars. It was a July release.

I think I actually watched it before. Because I remember when she won, I was happy. I was like, oh, I also watched fucking Avatar. And I'm glad that that didn't win. But that was the thing. It was so fully out of theaters and on home video that it had no Oscar bump. You know, like the box office was just fucking locked in. And then they re-released it to try to squeeze a couple more dollars out of it.

And that was, of course, the argument used to be really, it was really rare for there to be a Best Picture winner that wasn't a huge success. Like, even the more prestigious movies, like your Schindler's Lists or whatever, they made a lot of money. At least, like, tap 100. And this was just not a movie that had done that. It had been, like, a bit of a success because no one expected anything of it. Sure. But it really did buck that trend.

And it was kind of the entree for Jeremy Renner, right? Oh, 100%. Mr. Housework for himself. 100%. Yeah. It is, this is a genuine star-making performance because his career was not really going anywhere. I mean, he was working.

Yeah. But he was not a guy of any real note before this. And then overnight, he got six franchises. Yeah. Five of which didn't work. They really tried to cram him into a lot of stuff. Right. Because he was 35 in this movie.

You know, he'd been around. And it comes out like two years after they've shot it. So by the time it comes out and he's getting the Oscar nom, he's like 37. Wow. And he'd been in some stuff, like he'd been in The Assassination of Jesse James. He's in...

Dahmer was the big thing, which wasn't a big movie, but people said he was really good in that. He was in Dahmer, which is one of his first performances where he plays Jeffrey Dahmer, which is a tough movie to watch by any means,

but he is pretty good in it. And she had seen him in that and thought, this is my guy. LIE, he's really good into. Interesting. Yeah. Long Island Expressway? Yeah, he used to work on the Long Island Expressway doing road work and he was really good into. I'm interesting. Yeah. Long Island Expressway.

Yeah. He's he used to work on the Long Island Expressway doing road work and he was really good. It's like really interesting. And then the other two stars stars. I mean, they weren't stars then are Anthony Mackie, who had been in stuff. I mean, I know the most high profile of the three at that point because I've been in big movies and have Nelson, which is really good. Mile was his first film.

He's an eight mile. He you know, he he was a supporting. He's in Half Nelson, which he's really good in. Eight Mile was his first film. He's in Eight Mile. He, you know, he was a supporting, he was like a guy. He wasn't like a star. He was a guy in big movies. For sure. He's a cutie too.

He's a very handsome guy. You're fucking telling me. This guy is, this guy is a fuego. He's handsome. Yeah. Hey, look, you give me a plate

of Anthony Macaroni and cheese, I'd eat it up. Of course, now both of them are in marvel movies along with uh evangeline loli that's true this film has three marvelers the wasp and then brian garrity is the one who kind of doesn't pop after this and you know he's well cast he's he's really good in this i think uh he's telling david yesterday how much i like him. But, you know, he was in Chicago PD. He was in Flight, which is pretty good. Oh, good for him, though.

Sure. Yeah, that's sweet for him. But he's just kind of, and it's funny when you see someone's in Chicago PD, it means they've also been in Chicago Fire and Chicago Med and Chicago Law or whatever. It's such a pretty good deal. I mean, you end up getting some good residuals if you get cast on one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, but yeah, it's funny that, I guess, he's well cast, though. He's very well cast on one of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, it's funny that, I guess, he's well cast though. He's very well cast. He's very well cast. Yeah. And, so,

they, she casts these guys. Yeah. But yeah, to go back further. Oh, sorry. She meets Mark Bolt.

She does this TV show. Who's a freelance journalist who had been embedded with a bomb squad. So, it's a shift to Tinseltown. He, they had worked together on the inside,

which was this TV show that didn't come together. Tim Minear show. What was the inside about? It was also based on one of his articles. What was it about? It was Tim Minear, Howard Gordon. Wow.

It was inside the work, inside the work of FBI's Los Angeles Violent Crimes Unit. Oh sure. Yeah. Sounds great. But she like developed it shot the pilot and then they picked it up

and redeveloped it reshot fired her. Yeah. It made it a little more boring I think. Yeah. Rachel Nichols

Adam Baldwin Katie Finneran Nelson Ellis Peter Coyote this is a good cast. Good actors. Tim Minear you know Tim Minear.

What network had it? CBS. Wow. I was expecting something prestige-y. So that's interesting. It was just 2002. Whatever. 13 episodes and then that's that. It's the start of Biggie Bull.

Biggie Bull. Biggie Big, Mark Bull. Biggie Bull. Biggie Bull. Biggie Biggie Bull Bull. Now Mark Bull, who I think is her biggest, often the biggest hindrance to her movies, now that they are collaborators, right? Each of her movies I would say the screenplay is

often what slows me down the most. Do you feel that way about this film? Yes. Interesting. What do you feel is the biggest? I think the script's really good. I do not feel that about this film. I think this is his best script by far. I was ready to because we've already recorded our Zero Dark Thirty and Detroit episodes

feel like the bloom was off the rose a little bit and come back to this one looking at the screenplay a little more clear-eyed and seeing more of his tricks, which sometimes happens. You know, when a writer comes on the scene and they're hot and they got a new voice and then you see them do it five more times and you're like, oh, I get it now. It's not that impressive.

I see the machinery of your one routine you do. I'm feeling some of that with the good old Taylor Sheridan these days. Yeah, for sure. Where I'm like, I'm now retroactively less impressed with some of those earlier screenplays because I feel like you got one story you keep on telling.

Yeah. He wrote Sicario and he wrote Hell or High Water and then Wind River. Wind River. Which is a very interesting counterpoint to Jeremy Renner's performance in this movie, I think.

Sure. But I think the script's really fucking strong. I think the first half of the script is really strong. And then the second half I have a little bit of trouble with. But everything else I like. I like the whole script. I think that first half of the script is really strong. And then the second half I have a little bit of trouble with. But everything else I like. I like the whole script. I think that, that's interesting. I think that if you separate it into quarters,

I think first quarter, second quarter, and fourth quarter are great. Oh sure, yes. And I think the third quarter is where things get hairy. I'm down with that. But you're talking about the Beckham sort of revenge stuff? I am talking about the body bomb to the vigilante invasion of the house. Right, yes. That's what I'm thinking. Which I think is the most problematic element of the film. That was my least favorite part of the film. I am talking about the body bomb to the vigilante invasion of the house. That's what I'm thinking.

Which I think is the most problematic element of the film. That was my least favorite part of the film. I have a take on it now. We'll get to it when we get to it. We're going to talk

about our takes. But I think this is a very unconventional screenplay. I mean, this is like the kind of screenplay that any fucking film school

would tell you not to write because it's very episodic. Right? I mean, there's no real narrative propulsion it's like a series of different missions yeah and it becomes a character piece but the characterization how they build those characters is pretty unconventional yeah because you never have

the big confession scenes you never have the crazy backstory you get little bits and pieces hair but it's a lot of just behavioral stuff that just kind of stacks up on top of each other yes but it's one of those movies where you could rearrange the major set pieces of this film in any order you want. There's no continuity to them. There's a build to it that works in terms of storytelling. It's just like, what do we got now?

Right, right, right. I mean, it's interesting because I feel like the arc is actually less present for him because he's kind of a constant. And then it's really the other characters trying to get the fuck out that have a sort of sense of urgency as you build towards their last

days. Right. It's a movie about one guy who only knows how to exist in war and he teaches two other people that they shouldn't be in the war anymore. Right. They see him and they're like, fuck, this isn't for me. So sad. One of the things my sister was saying

a few times and i was sort of building on this with her is that like each of them is a different kind of veteran like that there's that there is like which is not to say those are the only three kinds but you know that like she like has heard the story of the guy who's so fucking scared like and like is keeps like like ow like Owen keeps blaming himself for the thing he didn't do and then the person who just is like I have to like leave and like start my own life because this has like broken me and then there's also the person that

doesn't know how to function unless they're in that space and like these experiences are all present in this place and like come out yeah I walk away from this film feeling like Garrity is going to have a much easier time readjusting and processing everything. He's going to be like,

that was bad. Yeah. It made me feel bad. And he was very in touch with his emotions the entire time he was there. He understands the stakes of the enormity of it. But he also gets, he gets James right from he's he like he nails him by the end

or he like when he says that line that scene I think is so good where he's like for your fucking adrenaline fix and then he's able to turn to Mackie and be like

get home safe man like smiles and like the whole thing and it's like the switch and you're like he's fine he's figured it out meanwhile Mackie in what I think is his best moment

when he gives his final speech about needing to leave yes and he breaks down crying oh it's so good what's amazing I think about that best moment when he gives his final speech about needing to leave and he breaks down crying. What's amazing I think about that performance is he does not look physically like he's crying at all. It's one of those things where like it's suddenly just like

the piping broke and water is just streaming down his face but he's just like talking clinically. And he's trying to keep it together. And it's like oh this guy's fucked. This guy is fucked. He's going to go it together right right and it's like oh this guy's fucked this guy is fucked he's going to go back

home to the woman he loves and he's going to raise a child and he's going to be a doted father he's never going to be complete right right I you know

not to tip hand you know for the next episode after this one but in my mind I had you know filed away

okay Zero Dark Thirty is her like stone cold masterpiece oh wow Hurt Locker is like a pretty good movie oh interesting and what I was very surprised by in rewatching was Zero Dark 30 I now degrade to like

a very good movie I think a movie promised a very good movie I think this is like a fucking masterpiece yeah I agree I agree with that I agree and I did watch Zero Dark 30 in theaters because I liked this book so much and I did feel a little bit like see at the time Zero Dark 30 in theaters because I liked this book so much. And I did feel a little bit like... See, at the time, Zero Dark 30, I was like 100% fucking knocked out. And I was like, this is the

movie that I feel like I wanted Hurt Locker to be. And now re-watching it, a lot of that movie jars for me. I still think it's very good. But with some major issues. And this for me was just like, even the stuff I could argue doesn't really work. I was talking to someone last night who said to me, I think the thing about movies is no movie is perfect, but the movies you love are the movies where you love and accept their flaws.

That's a good call. Right? And it's like, with this, there are like things I could pinpoint, but it's also like the whole piece of this thing just works so fucking well. I agree. I also think that this is, for us, I certainly felt this way, a great movie to see after you just watched every single Catherine Bigelow movie. Yeah, literally the last one we're watching chronologically. Yes, after you just watched essentially all of her movies in three weeks. Right.

You know, like. We record all this very fast because I'm getting on a plane. I'm hiding out in Europe for a month. Yeah, but then we're bringing you back. Asshole. Yeah. Why are you going to hide out in Europe? Because I need to decompress.

I've been so stressed out. Oh my God. You're like a privileged actor person. Now I get to do that. Now I get to do that. Oh my God. I haven't gone on a vacation in forever because I always was like,

what if I get on a plane? I miss a job. I don't want to go to like, you know, Minneapolis for two days. And now I'm like, let me just go to Europe and sit in a cafe

and read a book. Oh my God. I'm so proud of you, Griffin. You made it. I'm like let me just go to Europe and sit in a cafe and read a book oh my god I'm so proud of you Griffin you made it I'm a fucking asshole now you made it now you can have your nervous breakdowns in private

exactly I'm gonna have a private nervous breakdown in Europe okay great David's bored I'm gonna be like Jessica Chastain on the plane at the end of Zero Dark Thirty

I've heard all about his Paris my Paris excursion his Paris my sabbatical? Hey, Ben, how you doing? I'm good. So I'm watching most of Bigelow's movies and then, you know, seeing this last night again.

Didn't watch Detroit. I didn't. Spoiler alert. Easy pass. But I saw this movie in a different way. Yes. Because I feel like Renner, when I first saw him, I was like, this guy is badass. This guy's crazy.

Sure. I kind of didn't like him as much. He was so flawed to me this time around. I think that's what's good about this movie. But I think that's what's good about all her movies are certainly point break. The movies that are most about men doing male things. doing male things. And this is her most... I was telling Sony this already, is that she allows you to like the person

as a flawed individual, maybe. It's not like she's like, this is a bad person. Look at the bad person. Or this is a hero. But she is very upfront about what is wrong here. And this is her most literal presentation of masculinity and machismo.

Her other films about masculinity are far more heightened. And this is like kind of about a real thing. Right. And this is when she adopts this sort of documentary style. Yes. I mean this movie was shot all on 16 millimeter which is crazy because

a year later it would not have been. Probably not. And they always had like at least three cameras rolling oftentimes four or five. Four usually. And they always had, like, at least three cameras rolling, oftentimes four or five. Four, usually, yeah. And the crazy stat about this movie is this movie has the, like, craziest footage shot to footage used ratio in film history. Wow. I said it was, like, 100 to 1.

Wow. In terms of just getting so much fucking footage. Wow. Because she wanted to just have all these different angles, these camera operators going around all these different sides and do this crazy editing and she had this quote that I'm going to fucking misrepresent now as I try to pull it up but a lot of people I think adopt this style just because they go like oh it's like fucking Bourne it's cool

it's cool to make the like shaky cam like fucking intense and this was shot by Barry Aykroyd who shoots the Bourne is the green grass guy but she had this whole fucking take on why that needed to be the style for the movie which is she felt like that that was the way to present the way human beings process things in real time, especially like visual information, especially in a heightened state like that where you're simultaneously conscious of the micro and the macro. you're simultaneously conscious of the micro and the macro. And that if you make a shot and you hold on it,

you're trying to draw the viewer's attention to one thing, the way you compose your shot, right? Ideally, there's some sort of center of it, either by framing or by action or whatever it is. But you're like bombarded by shit. Right. And she's going between wide shots and close-ups and super close-ups and insert, all this fucking shit. That's what she wants to do and it feels

very intentional it's and it's it's masterful i have to say because i think that like one of the things that and again it was fun to watch it with tanya who hadn't seen it before and she didn't know what was going to happen is that it's like what she's like what happened did they have the phone did they not have the phone did the phone make it go off? Right. And I'm like, we don't know. Yeah. Like we literally have no idea. And that's going to be the takeaway of every scene that we don't know what actually happened. Her line is,

that's how we experience reality by looking at the microcosm, the macrocosm simultaneously. The eyes see differently than the lens, but with multiple focal lengths and a muscular editorial style, the lens can give you that microcosm, macrocosm perspective. And that contributes to the feeling of total immersion, which is a boss fucking statement. Muscular can give you that microcosm, macrocosm perspective and that contributes to the feeling of total immersion. Which is a boss fucking statement.

Muscular, I love that. She's so hardcore. We talk about this a lot on the Stranger Days episode, but we should talk about it again. This movie shot in Jordan, near the Iraq border, because she wanted to get as close as she could to Iraq. She could not shoot in Iraq because the war was going on. Average temperature on a shooting day was 120 degrees.

120 degrees. Wow. She recruited mostly Iraqi refugees who were living in Jordan to be the crew. To be the stand-ins and to be the, you know,

onlookers and the extras and the actor in the very crucial scene at the end is an Iraqi actor. Oh, man. That is a...

That's so fucking boss. Really intense scene. Even looking at the crew, like the number of Arabic names and that was so fucking boss really intense scene even looking at the crew like the number of Arabic names oh yeah sure right right in the credits

that was so fucking satisfying to me like just seeing that there's like like I think one of the things that really comes through in the film

is how much she wanted to like honor the experience like not just necessarily like like capture it or or interpret it

but like actually like herself wanted to understand it which I think is I'm always going to have respect for that you know yeah I think that's fair I think that's right and also I do think she's drawing that from Bull who flaws aside is a journalist and he likes

to draw from real sources to make these things and yada yada yada so they shot it in Jordan they made it for 15 million dollars it was an independent film it premiered at Venice these things and yada yada yada. So they shot it in Jordan. They made it for $15 million. It was an independent film. It premiered at Venice and did pretty well. It hopped over to Toronto.

This is in 2008. Right, exactly. So, you know, and then it gets picked up by Summit. Not a huge company, but Twilight was big. Like Twilight had come out that year? Yes, yes. It was right, I guess Twilight was about to come out but Twilight was big. Like Twilight had come out that year? Yes, yes.

It was right, I guess Twilight was about to come out. Twilight comes out. Imagine your two movies being Twilight and The Foot Locker. No, but Twilight comes out that November. So they purchased it before Twilight. They buy it for only $1.5 million, which is definitely less than they wanted considering it cost $15. And then they don't release it until the following summer. and considering it costs $15,000.

And then they don't release it until the following summer. So there's that weird thing with this movie where it gets nominated for Spirit Awards the year before it wins the Oscar. Right. It doesn't get a Best Director nomination. This is all true. Despite her winning the Oscar. At the Spirits.

Right, Tom McCarthy wins Best Director for The Visitor. Really? Yeah, which is fucking weird. The Wrestler wins Best Picture. Oh, right. Aronofsky wasn't even nominated for Director either. The indie spirits are... And Mackie and Brenner are nominated for Best Actor

and Best Supporting Actor. And then the following year, when it sweeps the Oscars, it isn't nominated at the Spirits because that sometimes will happen where if a movie's... Yeah, well, they champion a little movie that hasn't even come out maybe- But it speaks to how low everyone's expectations for the movie were. If a movie has a big festival run, they don't think it's going to get a big theatrical release.

They'll nominate it at the Spirits after the festival run. Tell me the most amount of screens this was on. 450. No, you're a little higher. 535. In its seventh week, that was at the height of its expansion, which is not very large. And then... And it never cracked

the top 10, right? A wide release is like 2,000, 3,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I assumed you knew. Yeah, no, no, no, I appreciate it. But for the listener as well.

You're saying it to the listener, but you also stared Sonia dead in the eyes. Yeah, I stared her. No, but he has... He's not wrong. I don't always know these things.

Can I read some stats here from the Wikipedia on the production? Okay. Jeremy Renner says he got food poisoning. Right, I saw that. Lost 15 pounds in three days. The bomb suit, when he's in the full bomb suit, weighs 100 pounds. So imagine you're in 120 degree heat. You put on that suit, which has an extra 100 pounds.

It probably has an extra 100 degrees onto your body temperature, right? When he's carrying Beckham down the stairs, the body twisted his ankle and couldn't walk. Filming shut down. Right. They said at that point, direct quote, people wanted to quit. All the departments were struggling to get their job done. None of them are communicating. A week later, filming resumed.

They couldn't get most of the guns they wanted into Jordan. So the props guy had to build weapons like overnight like he was working like 14 hour days to try to build the weapons for them they used chinese fireworks because they couldn't have gunpowder oh my god they had fireworks loaded into all the guns one day he was assembling a prop and the heat and friction caused the fireworks to blow up in his face two days later he returned to work it's one of those movies no trailers no private bathrooms like everyone was like apparently losing their minds on this fucking movie and threatened to quit all the time every single department oh my god everybody was losing it oh my god it's one of those movies where now that it's basically the best movie that almost everyone who worked on it has ever worked on yeah

so like mackie or renner would be like defining it was a really tough shoot it was really tough the best movie that almost everyone who worked on it has ever worked on. Yeah. So like Mackie or Renner would be like The career defining. It was a really tough shoot. It was really tough. Yeah. I'm glad we made it. Yeah.

It's like one of those things where you're like you know what we had a lot of fun even though it was like there was a lot of camaraderie. They're just like it was really really tough.

Yeah. It was tough. You know. Renner says They don't really beat around it. But it kind of makes sense too because the film is about a really tough place.

It contributes. And maybe it contributes, right? Yeah. Right. Like if making my best friend's wedding was this tough, the movie would probably suffer. It would feel a little different, right?

But he says, right, he's got this quote where he says, there were two by fours with nails being dropped from two story buildings that hit me in the helmet and they were throwing rocks. These are just civilians, right?

In Jordan. We got shot at a few times when we were filming by real people. What the shit renner said when you see it you're gonna feel like you've been in war and like that sums it up pretty well which is like they had a fucking nightmare experience but it all translates on screen yeah because these guys just look so fucking worn out in every single shot in a way you kind of can't

fake i don't care how good an actor you are there's something just about like these three actors being so fucking committed to these parts being real pros but also being at their fucking wits end like looking physically and mentally and emotionally depleted except for Renner right who's having a fucking great time which is why I think he's so

what I like about him is he's not a cowboy like if that makes sense like he's not like yee-hawing he's just genuinely unflappable. To the extent that when people are trying to pump him up, too, he's just kind of like, yeah, yeah, no, no, yeah, whatever, man. Yeah, I guess so. Well, he is unflappable, but in a very specific situation.

But you're right. Yes, he's very affectless most of the time. Right, because when he's doing wild shit, they're like, holy shit, what are you doing? And he's like, I don't worry about it he's doing wild shit yeah they're like holy shit what are you doing he's like i don't worry about it give me fun this is just yeah and that opening scene where he points the gun at the cab yeah uh oh man so nonchalant yeah not only is it nonchalant that he's pointing the gun at him it's nonchalant when he starts threatening him and shooting at the cab you know shooting outside the cab to try and get him to go it's like he's he's just like here's a problem i'll try and

deal with it you know like so affectless is the word i want to get to here not to gang up on this movie but just because it's the recent jeremy renner counterpoint but i was like so frustrated watching uh wind river because the entire time i was like don't let renner go full cowboy like they let him lean into it too much and he's staring off in the middle distance and squinting going you know the thing they say about revenge is you know it's a lot of that i actually kind of wanted wind river to just be more of a western though like that i was like snow western give me snow western sure and then it turns into this like revenge drama yeah but you watch this, Ben would probably love it.

That sounds great. It kind of has this last act turn that I just couldn't. Is there like a skiing thing? There's a lot of snowmobiling. Snowmobile is his horse. For fuck's sake. He works for the Department of Fisheries

and an early question that Elizabeth Olsen asks him is like, what do you do? And he's like, I kill predators. Because his job is to shoot predators who would attack animals. It's also a movie about a white man who knows the land of the Native Americans better than the Native Americans.

Yes, and he refers to them as his people, his family, because he has a Native American son. So is the river made of wind? It's a Wind River Native American reservation. It's a real place in Wyoming. That's what it's named after. My point is the thing I... re-watching this movie, because when this came out

I had seen... I hadn't seen Dahmer, but I had seen Renner and some other stuff and never was really crazy about him. I remember he was the one guy in Jesse James I wasn't totally on board with. He would often really be amped like very high. He felt a little extra amped like very high. He felt a little extra. In these small roles. Felt a little extra.

There's a little bit of that Ben Foster thing where it's like you can take it down a notch. You don't need to do that much. He's trying to win most acting. And I saw him in this and went, geez he is so fucking unaffected in this. There is no affectation whatsoever. This is like this kind of really straight shot

honest American leading man that we don't have right now. That like James Cagney line about like you hit your mark, you look the guy in the eyes and you speak the truth. But it's funny because that that disaffectation is like sociopathic. And I'm not trying to use too many psychological terms, but it is so interesting for this character. She sees him in Dahmer. She sees him playing Jeffrey Dahmer, and she's like, I know, I'm going to make you a fucking war hero.

And what does that mean, you know? Like, being that person. And why was she drawn to him? Right, she casts Mackie, she said, off of Half Nelson, where he plays, like, an incredibly charming drug dealer who's trying to, like,

completely subvert this young girl. And I forget what she said she cast Garrity off of. I think Jarhead. I think he was in Jarhead. But she cast two guys playing like criminal roles to play the two heroes of your movie. You know? She understands like how twisted both of these guys are. But it's funny.

Well, I have so many feelings about that too because I feel like it's not even that she's saying that these that these boys are twisted and I say boys because I feel like

there's a sense in which she cares about but say the words say what she's not saying she said well I don't even know what you think

I'm going to say now because I I sort of feel like it's for fuck's sake I sort of feel like it becomes this narrative about like what war means and what war does to people one of the things that i really love like and we're talking

about this uh we're talking about will james uh jeremy renner's character in the context of cowboys or in the context of american heroes but i what i was actually thinking was that this this character this like blood crazed warrior is like this universally human character that you could point to throughout history like someone who has a wife and family and goes goes back right and like cannot relate to the domestic sphere anymore and it applies to the western to the samurai film to any sort of archetype of the warrior you know how in gladiator how he's like obsessed with his wife and kid and it's like funny how to the samurai film, to any sort of archetype of the warrior in any culture at any time period. I was thinking about,

you know how in Gladiator, how he's like obsessed with his wife and kid? And it's like funny how this guy is like kind of the perfect Roman warrior because he doesn't fucking care about his wife and kid. He wants to be in Germania forever or wherever it is forever. I just thought that was so interesting. Like it's almost like she's saying

war is this thing that needs this person like this in order to exist. War is a drug and she goes Chris Hedges. And what's interesting about this guy is that he doesn't seem to be looking for any of the sort of glory or the acclaim you know? Yeah he just can only work like this. Right like something like American Sniper which is so much about how

Chris Kyle became this like fucking legend within the military, out of the military he just is this guy that like he doesn't really have a reputation that precedes him but think about it like in American Sniper the whole mystique about Chris Kyle is he has the most confirmed kills of any sniper ever it's some number I can't remember what it is

and then there's the scene in this movie which is my favorite scene in the whole movie when David Morse one of her great one scene actors in this movie comes up and he's like how many kills how many kills and he's like

I don't know he's like come on how many and he says what is like 864 and he's like hardcore

you're a wild man you're a wild man and Renner's like yeah I guess so you know like he's not allowing himself to be like he also knows

the exact number he knows the exact number it's not kills it's missions it's disarmments I meant not kills bombs but he's just like you're a wild man and the funny thing is he doesn't want to He knows the exact numbers. Not kills. It's missions. It's disarmments. I meant not kills. Bombs.

Right, right. But he's just like, you're a wild man. And the funny thing is he doesn't want to, like Tanya said this, she was like, he didn't want to tell anyone. He didn't want anyone to know that.

And I love that too. It's like his little thing of bombs things. His weird fucking box of trophies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does it for the love of doing it. Like that's what's weird

about this guy. Right, right. And he knows it's weird. It's like, he feels that shame over how reliant he is on this thrill it's also like a conversation he's having with a person who's not there because i mean part of what's great about these scenes that in my opinion the bomb scenes yes is that there's no villain like we're saying maybe there's someone who's lurking over there maybe they have a camcorder maybe they have a cell phone but we don't even know but the villain is the machine the villain is right and the villain is nowhere right but the villain is everywhere and could go off at any time it's a

very good metaphor for what weird quagmire wars that we get ourselves dragged into but um but there's no villain but he is kind of like what were you thinking about making this like especially when he's in the car he's like not in the, you know, like, and the more mysterious it gets for him, the more intrigued he is by it. And then when he finally gets his little switch or whatever, he's like,

yeah, there you go, you know. There's a certain appreciation of the craft. Yeah. Yeah. Of the bombs that he's trying.

Which makes sense for a man whose job is undoing craft, I guess, you know, like, and there's something about like, and I love that earlier scene where he pulls out the battery,

the first bomb scene and the guy who's probably the trigger man is running away and he's just like look I got it he shows it to him oh my god

he doesn't even care about the guy he probably knows that's the trigger man he doesn't care he's just like I got it and when he's pointing the gun at the guy in the cab

and I feel like when I was watching this because it's like it's your first scene really where you're looking at like a guy like a and a rocky person presumably who may or may not have something to do with this you're looking at him in the face he's got the gun like he's pointing it at him he doesn't kill

him right you stare at him you the audience are wondering what the fuck is going through this guy's head and we know nothing about William James right yeah into this intersection is just fucking stranded he backs up and William James says, if that guy wasn't an insurgent before, he is now. And I was like, he doesn't care. He doesn't care

about who the bad guy is. Like, that's crazy to me. Like, I don't even know. But what good fucking character building. Like,

immediately from the first scene of this movie, you're like, I need to lean in and figure out who this guy is. But, we should talk about

the first scene. No, just, I was about to say, the comparison between Guy Pearce doing that. The structure is just so perfect. This movie does a beautiful fucking Drew Barrymore in Scream, especially because at the time of this movie, Jeremy Renner's not well known. Anthony Mackie's one of those that guys.

But you're going into the film and I remember there was, I mean they included a good amount of both like Guy Pearce and Ray Fiennes in the trailer if I remember correctly because they were like here are the two faces people will know we'll put them in the trailer so you feel comfortable but both of those guys

die so fast one scene die in five minutes but the movie starts out with Guy Pierce and he's doing a very classical kind of like hero soldier kind of performance the way he's talking about everything yes you know you're totally right and he's got some good jokes some good one liners and he's

fucking handsome as shit he's fucking charming he's a little bantery they all love him and you're like right this is the lead of this war movie I totally get the movie I'm watching right now she fucking kills the shit out of him as soon as she can it's so good it's so evil it's a good scene too

because you're with them right away I think it's good what they're doing and the guy with the cell phone in the butcher shop and you're so focused on him and you're like what did he do did he do anything and then also at the same time what a fucking

indictment of war this turns into so quickly that you're like look how fucking awful this is. They don't know what they're doing. They have this shit-ass robot that is supposed to go do this stuff for them. Like, what are we doing here is like the first feeling out of the movie, I feel.

I'll say this too. I know, David, you said that, you know, Bigelow's gone like, I wasn't in jail. You know, I wasn't unable to make a film. I was doing other stuff. But there is a sense of this wayow's gone like, I wasn't in jail, you know, I wasn't unable to make a film, I was doing other stuff. But there is a sense of this movie where it's like this is my chance to make it count again, you know? For sure. Like I lost whatever momentum I had

in the 90s. She wants to make her movie. She hits the ground running and this movie just like from minute one you can tell she's like I'm gonna make this count. It's like a defiant movie, right? Like yeah. There are very few movies I've seen build a sense of tension and dread this immediately.

Like from like second 15, the movie's tight as a drum and you're like, you can't look away. Like it's very engrossing. Like this is someone who has to leave it all on the field. And as someone who was like addicted to my phone for me to say, like, I can't look away.

That's really hard to have movie and it doesn't matter how many times you've seen it it doesn't matter if you're watching it I was watching a chunk of it on my fucking iPad in a bagel shop and I was like

stop talking I'm watching The Hurt Locker why were you doing that? because I fell asleep watching it last night and I had a dentist appointment early this morning so I had to watch

the second half of it how was the dentist? good I have a protruding gum flap. Oh, interesting. I have like gum that's Is that something you've always had

or is it a new thing? There's like Let's get into it. So they removed like three of my wisdom teeth like four years ago but there's one they didn't remove because it's right on a nerve

and they were like there's a 15% chance if we take it out it will cause a Stallone. A what? A Sylvester Stallone? You'll have like a Stallone kind of like you know or best case'll have like a stallone kind of like

you know or or best case scenario like a ruffalo kind of mouth a little bit of a droop yes no thank you right so they didn't remove it but then what's been happening now is my gum has been like growing over the wisdom tooth that hasn't been removed oh so a shit gets caught under there have these things i don't teeth Get rid of them. Fucking dumb. I think it's so dumb that we have wisdom teeth. Yeah. Some people have evolved to not have them anymore.

Sure. Which is obnoxious. More like the dumbest teeth. They're dumb. I think they're dumb. Ben, fucking answer the question. Why do we have wisdom teeth? Oh, um.

Some leftover, right? Yeah, some leftover shit. From like prehistoric socks. Because we probably had to fucking chew the shit out of some raw ass meat well and probably

you would have fucked up a lot of your teeth before then by that point and so you need your 30 year old teeth we have our tail bones too

you know why use that though I just was talking about this hey our teeth fall out as kids and then grow back that sucks that's crazy fucking

suck teeth are so fucked up it's like yeah they're like uh you know um i was reading a fingernail so you know they're like horns it's the same process oh we're just bodies are weird bodies are really weird animal end i just want to say this on the record my one remaining wisdom tooth is literally the least intelligent tooth in my body. Dumbass tooth. It's fucking everything up and showing no remorse. And I keep on going like, what are you doing? It's like, what, me?

It's a fucking dumb tooth. Yep. It's fucking up my mouth, making me watch Hurt Locker in a bagel shop. Guy Pearce dies. Guy Pearce dies. Very quickly. And Owen could have saved him, but he doesn't. Owen could have shot the guy with the cell phone.

Oh, and this introduces another very interesting character, I think. The fucking army therapist. The army psychologist. Christian Camargo. Cambridge. Who we all know as the Ice Truck Killer. That's all I know him as, really. I don't know who this guy is either.

He's in Dexter Season 1. He's sort of the big bad of Dexter Season 1. The inclusion of this guy is so interesting He's in Dexter season one. He's sort of the big bad of Dexter season one. The inclusion of this guy is so interesting, right? Yes. The inclusion of him and of David Morse as these authorities

who have no fucking clue what's actually happening. Right. And one is a little more of a gung-ho asshole and one of them is more of a like, no, we're here.

I mean, the scene of Christian Camargo's character interacting with the citizens where he's like, very nice country, very nice. This area is a little dangerous

if you want to move. And he's talking to someone who is putting rocks into a wheelbarrow. Like, the guy knows it's dangerous. Well, remember, he says to Owen in his first,

yes, and in his first scene, he says to Owen, the army could be, this could be the best time of your life. Yeah, he's trying to be like, look, think of it as an adventure and you're in a new place. And like on one hand, of course he has to say that because he's fucking, and on the other hand, I wanted to punch him in the face. I was so disgusted.

It's like if your sister sucked, like, you know, but like the way like he's viewing it like he's watching a movie about people in war yeah it's like oh what an interesting like psychological condition he's got there what an interesting coping mechanism right this could be really interesting for you if you like are able to process it later and it's like fuck you like i'm in the midst of this shit and the fact that he's literally named cambridge right he's named cambridge and then owen says like oh when was that at yale right right and it's like i don't know that to me that's such a crucial veteran dynamic well sure but this is also a movie about enlisted officers and he is not he's a he's an officer not not he's an

officer about enlisted you know soldiers right because even renner who is the highest ranked he's a staff sergeant they are all enlistees right yeah and um i don't even know if it's if he's being an asshole i think he is just demonstrating the absolute like shallow to draw from he's not do you know how glib that is i don't know what your glib matt it's tom cruise's scientology interview oh yeah right yes you're glib matt you don't even understand how glib you sound right now no he is like i think it's also it's like he has that that's his best you know uh weapon to draw when brian garrity is venting his real complaints he's like yeah no i know but think about it you're in a different country yeah you know like like that's just that's the best he can come up with

it's like a school guidance counselor telling you that like those kids picking on your building character for the future. Okay. Look, clearly you have a lot of access to grind against a lot of school guidance counselors. All right. So Guy Pearce's character dies. It's very traumatic. And I think it is very powerful how powerful it is given you only have 10 minutes with him. Like you feel his loss.

Yes. And Bigelow pulls a couple jazz hands. Camera moves at the end of this where she does the super slow motion shots of the rust. That stuff's unbelievable. The blood in the helmet also really gets me. Which is like a flash.

Because most of the film is 16mm those couple of shots feel very high resolution. They feel like they went to 35mm or shot on digital or whatever but it's super slowed down and you're seeing the effects of these bombs in real time, which obviously an explosion is an explosion. But to see that

micro kind of result makes you understand the actual impact of what these things are capable of doing. I'm sorry, I interrupted. I also didn't realize, as someone who doesn't know a ton about explosions and also only sees TV, or dumb, flashy explosions in our pop culture that like you that he could die from like, sure. That makes sense.

I didn't realize that he could be that far away and something would blow up and he could still die. And I actually thought that was really useful to just in terms of establishing what the stakes were to that. It's not going to look like what you're used to seeing. And also, I think their reaction to when he dies, where you don't have any, like, platoon drop to the knees, like, cry up at the heavens thing. Like, they were just buddy-buddy with this guy. This guy feels like the lead of the movie,

and now he dies, and they're like, oh, fuck. They go to that, like, box, like that shoebox that he's in. It's a bummer, and Mackie throws the dog tags in. But just kind of, like, they probably they probably lost like six guys like this. Sometimes above them, sometimes below them, you know? Yeah. So. Now in comes.

Cut almost immediately. James. After that one scene to James. Not my brother. The officer. In the first, right? Jamesy. In the first scene, he's pretty nice where he's like, I'm sorry about your guy.

I'm not trying to replace him. I'm just here. Handles it exactly the way you're supposed to. Introduce, listen it ministry is that the band yeah that's just metal very interesting choice like i just thought that was perfect anyway go on the only weird thing he does if it's weird at all though we all sympathize is he's like let me take this cardboard you've just nailed not car you know plywood you've nailed to the window off because i like light i like natural lightize, is he's like, let me take this cardboard you've just nailed, not cardboard, you know, plywood you've nailed to the window off. Because I like light. I like natural light.

But he's also, he's got this weird smushy face. Jeremy Renner with his weird smushy pug face. He constantly looks like a kid

who is just putting a time out. I find Jeremy Renner very handsome, but he's got a weird face and he's just got this like resting kind of like grump face.

Well, maybe more to the point, he doesn't have a face, like he doesn't look necessarily like the lead of your of your movie he does not you know what i mean yeah but i also think i saw him on some talk show recently and he was saying how he has a hard time interacting with children because his resting face looks unfriendly he said that yeah he did that's why i'm not i don't feel like i'm fucking mocking him right now. And I think he's a friendly guy. A resting grumpy face? His mouth is kind of downturned.

Which is why I think he's so good in the Mission Impossible movies. Agreed. Because his role there is the kind of like, I don't know. He looks disapproving. I said he looks like a kid who just was put in a corner for time out.

I know you now. You've said it twice. He looks like a kid who was just put in a corner. Shut up. Stop it. Christ almighty. Thank you so much. I'm sorry. I just you now. You've said it twice. He looks like a kid who was just Shut up. Stop it. Stop it. Almighty. Thank you, Sonia. I'm sorry.

I just stepped out. It looks like a kid who was put in a corner for time out. Ben, you were supposed to be the voice of reason. Producer Ben, a.k.a.

Purdue Ren, a.k.a. the Ben Ducer, a.k.a. the Poet Laureate, a.k.a. the Peeper, a.k.a.

the Haas, a.k.a. Mr. Positive, a.k.a. our finest film critic, a.k.a. the Poet Laureate, the Fuckmaster,

the Meat Lover, Birthday Benny, Dirt Bike Benny. He is not Professor Crispy. He is the Fuckmaster. He has graduated to certain titles of the course of different miniseries, such as Kylo Ben, Producer Ben Kenobi, Ben Sates, Ben Shyamalan, Say Benny Thing,

Ailey Bent with a dollar sign, Warhaz, and fucking Perdue or Bane. Oh, man. Perdue or going all the way back. Perdue or Bane. Okay, so. Thank you for catching me Nice. You were Bane. Okay. So thank you for catching me up. Anytime. Bane would be useful in this movie.

For you. For you. You're a big guy. I could do that all day. David just cracked himself up so much and no one else laughed. It's very painful. You're a big guy. Crashing this plane.

Your Bane is now also starting to sound more like Marvin the Martian. Crushing this plane. No, mine was always the one that sounded like Marvin the Martian. Oh, right. And then Ben ran with it, and Ben does a better Marvin the Martian. Yeah, he does a good Marvin the Martian. Let me hear yours. Take control. Take control of your city

oh boy boy oh boy my point is please that this movie shot almost 10 years ago when renner does look noticeably younger in this film i didn't realize that this movie had come out that long ago. It feels like a more recent film. And then you watch it and you're like, oh, right. It has been almost a decade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's nine years old. He's fresher faced in this.

But there is something when you have this introductory shot of him sitting in a car silently. Right. Not thrashing. Not looking angry. With no emotion. Listening to mystery. Yeah. Just with this weirdly kind of downturned face.

Yeah. And then they like retrieving. He's like, Oh yeah, sure. Yeah. And you're like, Oh,

this is this guy at neutral. This is this guy like happy. Yeah. And his first bomb defusal, uh, is what I love this scene. This is my favorite, probably my favorite scene in the whole movie,

except for maybe David Moore saying he's a wild man, uh, which is where, uh, cause just cause I love again, Bigelow, um, um, seen the whole movie except for maybe david moore saying he's a wild man uh which is where uh because just because i love again bigelow um yes the scene where it's like uh they're like they arrive at a scene there's an abandoned humvee and they're like so they walk around yeah and then they come across yes a group of men who are soldiers with assault weapons, wearing helmets and armor, cowering in a little alcove that they've all hidden in. Just hiding the shit out of there.

And here's what they have to say. Somebody saw a wire over there. Yes. And obviously, this isn't even comical because obviously they have very real reason to be afraid because as later, there are like six bombs over there. But then here comes jeremy renner in his weird like fucking stay pump marshmallow man exactly he puts on his play-doh suit right and like he literally and joanna when we were watching and she was like how's that gonna protect him and i was like it's it protects you from shrapnel but like it is sort of a comical suit yeah obviously

can't predict you from like a bomb going you see like guy pierce is wearing it and then his whole fucking visor is bloody yeah gets hit and he's already 15 feet away at that point it still didn't save him um but like just i think this is what i love about her in this movie just tapping into that image of these men cowering in fear these like paragons of masculine power cowering in fear because somebody saw a red wire right and renner's like okay they're not even ashamed that's one of the things that I think is so interesting they're not even ashamed

they're like yeah we're fucking afraid EOD and now Renner's in his like inflatable sumo Halloween costume doing his cowboy walk

over to the wire they're like do you want to get the robot and he's like no go check it out and they're freaking the fuck out they're yelling

into the walkie talkies and there's so much noise he tosses a smoke grenade behind him and they're like why'd out. They're yelling into the walkie-talkies and there's so much noise. He tosses a smoke grenade behind him and they're like, why'd you do that? He's like, for cover. And it all makes perfect sense. Everything he does makes perfect sense. It does. It's just alarming everyone. Everyone around him is terrified.

We've seen Guy Pearce at the beginning who was like cool, confident, collected, didn't seem scared but also was like making jokes about. And Renner's just like, oh no, I'm good. Renner's actually not scared. Which scares them. Because there's nothing performative. Right, there is

intelligence in being afraid of things that are frightening. And he's spending no energy trying to calm them down, trying to reassure anyone of anything. This squad isn't going to be into someone who's not afraid of dying because they don't want to die. They want to keep living. And then Sanborn gets mad.

Sanderson. No, it's Sanborn. I think it's the second bomb disposal where Sanborn hits him in the face. It hits him straight in the face. That's the one at the UN building. The first one is the one where he

finds the bomb he diffuses it and he's like okay I think this is good and then he like lifts it up and it's that image from the poster where it's like

six linked bombs and she just like in a movie that's so with such muscular editing muscular this is one of the times where she holds

the longest on a single shot I feel like as he really like wrestles for this wire and then as you see them all come uncovered from the dirt it's fucking unbelievable

so good in his stay puffed suit yeah you know behind his visor communicating not with a big reaction

but with a small reaction of like huh yeah yeah that's a lot of bombs yeah you know and then being like

and pulls a gun from his stay puffed suit that's such a great and does that that's so crazy it's crazy that he has a gun even and he does the whole that's such a great and does that that's so crazy it's crazy that he has a gun even and he does the whole thing

that's all he really has yeah that's incredible so that's the first set piece and they don't love that right his squad doesn't love that okay what the fuck's

going on with this guy and then the second set piece like you say is the one where there's a car outside the UN building oh and the people are watching them there's tons of people

watching them in 360 there's some people watching them in 360. There's some people filming them. And they are so scared. This is when he takes the suit off. That's when he takes the suit off.

There's enough stuff in here to blow us. And he takes his headphones off too. He throws them out. He goes, give me my kit and my cans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got my tools? Got my tools? Yeah, yeah. Get my cans. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, someone has shot this car,

tried to blow it up, lit it on fire. He extinguishes the fire. Yes. And after all that, he's like, tried to blow it up lit it on fire he extinguishes the fire yes and after all that he's like so let's see what's going on yeah lifts up the trunk there's like four million bombs uh and then he it becomes like it's like solving a little puzzle box he's like where could it be and he doesn't see not in the seat it's like a children's book yeah right you're lifting up the flaps it's like a thick cardboard is. Yeah. Right. You're lifting up the flaps. It's like a thick cardboard book. Is it in the glove compartment? Right. Not in the glove compartment.

Yeah, right. This is when he saves the thing. He saves the- Yeah, saves the little switch. The dead man's switch. Yeah. Because he's impressed with the artistry of this bomb. The technique.

There's this thing I always rant about, especially if you get two drinks in me, which is like, why do most movies pick the same fucking five jobs for its characters to have and jobs that are not very interesting to watch on screen when watching anyone be good at their job is inherently fascinating especially if it's a job you haven't seen before and like watching him deal with the bombs in this movie even if you don't understand what he's doing at every moment

this is clearly an actor who fucking prepared well for the role right and they did their research is owning it right is in Tom Hanks pocket of just like exuding a level of control over his role in the film but also just watching him try to figure it out that process is

fucking enthralling like aside from the tension there there's additional tension from the juxtaposition of understanding the stakes of it cutting to like

Mackie and Garrity and all the other soldiers who are like what the fuck is going on and Renner just being like it's not as much about whether I live or die as if I can like prove that I know what I'm doing right by figuring out what the fuck is going on he doesn't want to be outsmarted and then there's such a good false alarm with the windshield wipers yeah that's great yes um but uh he's not to spoil or we're not spoiling but not to jump ahead we don't have to talk about

it right now but the only time he's really outsmarted is just because of iron bars. Yeah. It's like it's not nothing intricate. He's not outsmarted. He's outmaneuvered. He doesn't have the tools. Yeah.

So anyway so there's those two scenes and I feel like interweaving are these scenes with him hanging out with Beckham Yeah. on the base. Yeah.

Beckham And it is genuinely surprising played by Christopher Sayek it's genuinely surprising that he... Played by Christopher Sayek. It's genuinely surprising that he can make an emotional connection with this kid because he sort of failed

to make an emotional connection at this point with his unit mates. Sure. Like, I thought that was... And then, you know, you do find out he has a son. He has a son.

What does this mean? But he does seem to struggle with military chains of command much more than he... You know, like, he's cool just talking to this kid. Yeah. But I think the key to it

is that this kid is so guileless, you know? Yeah, he likes that the kid is just, yeah, it's just,

got a couple balls on him, yeah. But the kid's, yeah, the kid's a smooth operator. Right, that's the point. I love that kid.

He's like, great movies, the best movies. He's using hip hop slang. He's using the N word. Yeah, that's his opening line. That's his opening line. That's his opening line.

That's like the third word he says in this film. And then like Jeremy Renner's like, this DVD was bullshit. It was like fucking. He's like, no, it's great. And he's like, no, it was bad. And he's like, well, okay. But I think that's what Renner takes to is like,

this kid is the Jeremy Renner of selling bootleg DVDs. He's as obsessive and determined and focused. He identifies something. He kind of likes the sport of it. Right. Whereas, like, these other guys, like, he doesn't fucking get what Anthony Mackie's about, you know? Yeah. All right.

So, after that, I'm just— We're starting to get more attention. It is a very episodic movie. But Garrity has this conversation with Cambridge where he's just like, I don't like this guy. He's going to get us killed. Cambridge is like, calm down. And he's like, I know what I'm seeing. Like, I know what I'm seeing. This guy's fucking reckless. He doesn't care about anyone. He's doing this for sport.

That's a dangerous type of guy to have leading a mission. And then we have the refined scene. Right. He's already punched him in the face at this point. Yeah, that UN thing because he takes his cans off. And then in the, right, there's a scene where they're blowing up some explosives him in the face at this point. Yeah, right. After the UN thing, because he takes his cans off. Yeah, right. And then in the, right, there's a scene where they're blowing up some explosives

out in the desert. Oh my God. Oh, I need to get my gloves. So like the absolute fearlessness of this guy and sort of almost sociopathy where he cannot pick up on like how ridiculous a decision that is. And Mackie and Garrity have this conversation.

And Mackie seems to be sort of like 60% considering it. Garrity's more like 25% on board. You know what I mean? And it's not vindictive, but it's like if we don't kill this guy, he might get us killed. Right. There's this sort of like slight, like very pragmatic philosophical discussion of like, look, we could blow him up.

These things go off all the time. It wouldn't be that crazy. And wouldn't it be a lesson? wouldn't it be a lesson wouldn't it be a lesson in not breaking protocol like this you would have to write my report but it's also right but it's also one of those things where it's like we're just having a conversation right and mackie never says no yeah but he also never says like no i want to do this he's holding the detonator yeah he's just kind of like and there's no moment where he breaks out and goes like haha i was just kidding man yeah yeah and then so instead it's just kind of like... And there's no moment where he breaks out and goes like, ha ha, I was just kidding, man.

Yeah. And then so instead it's just sort of like... And then, okay, nothing happens. He just waves them around like a fucking two-fist. you just cut right to

them in their Humvee. It's not like he then comes back and they sort of put the dead meat in their mouth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This movie doesn't have a lot of shoe leather. And that's when they run into

the men who are dressed in like Arab garb but immediately we realize these are contracts. That's movies that are rapes. And side, this they run into the men who are dressed in like Arab garb, but immediately we realize these are contracts. And side, this is my favorite scene of the movie. It's a great scene. This entire, this set piece, I suppose, this entire thing, the way it plays out. She also does

a thing here that you can only do with a movie star like that, where you have a guy whose face is bandaged and the second you... And you know! I knew it as soon as I saw his eyes. I was like, it's right there we have been collaborated before to be clear Strange Doss

she's the star of Strange Days I'm sorry Strange Doss thank you and I did a whole fine sidebar on our Strange Doss episode about

about him I think being one of the best screen actors ever the thing I forgot to mention in that when we were talking about how I think when he made this transition

and this movie is sort of right when that transition is happening or it's been in progress for a little bit from being like super handsome conventional your mom loves him Tony sort of prestige leading man to being a weird character actor Voldemort's the one I

forgot to talk about which I think his Voldemort's very underrated I think his Voldemort's good herated. I think his Voldemort is good. He's been Voldemort for a while at this point when this is happening. He's the first Voldemort in 05 in Goblet. Which is the fourth movie. They've talked about this guy a lot.

And then he has a lot more to do in Phoenix, which is 07. And then Half-Blood Brin comes out this year. I think he's good. I think Voldemort is a really dull villain. That's sort of always been my if i love harry potter yeah i've always found voldemort to be not the most interesting thing about harry potter do you agree with me sonia i don't know i mean you seem to be nodding i i think that fines makes voldemort more i agree i think he's very dull in the books sure sure. And I think you look at four seconds

of fucking Johnny Depp playing Grindelwald and compare it to like five movies of Voldemort. Yeah, but how about those two hours of Colin Farrell playing Grindelwald? Yeah, it's good. Yeah, slice it up. But that's like, you look at Fiennes and it's like he's putting the exact right amount

of paprika on the sandwich. And your task is be the most evil person who's ever existed. No, I know. And of course, yes, yes again on the page voldemort's character it's like what's what is he he's right he is a creature of pure evil oh okay but you don't want to do too much you don't want to do too little yeah you don't want to let the like visual effects of the look do too much like baggage for you but this is like yeah he's at this point now where his leading man image is being distorted because now by and large he's voort. Like, to a generation of filmgoers, he's Voldemort. He's that noseless fuck.

And, I mean, what I like about Voldemort, not to go on too much of a Harry Potter thing, is more, it's not, it's never really about him. It's about the people who are drawn to him, right? Like, it's like, and that's not to, I just think that everything in all pop culture can be related through Harry Potter, and it's very reflective of, yeah. I agree. And it's really fucking irritating, to be perfectly honest with you. Our next main series is Voldemort, by the way. We're not picking a director. We're not doing Harry Potter.

We're just doing Voldemort. If you guys do the Harry Potter movies, it would be very funny, actually. I think that we might have some fun with the Harry Potter movies, but they're not great movies. Yeah. I think one of them is a really excellent movie. We did have- Is it the third one? Is it Prisoner of Azkaban?

No, but that one's really good too. To me, that's the pinnacle. I think the last one's really well drawn. You're going to say Half-Blood Prince. Yeah, Half-Blood Prince is my-

I think that is a stupendous movie. That's a great movie. And Seven Part One is a great movie. Seven is- Seven Part One is a very interesting movie. I think it's like actually, well, okay. I think it's pretty good. I like all the Yates movies, which are five through seven.

We've never said this on the podcast before, and it wasn't like a very long conversation, but when we were ramping down our Star Wars days. Ramping down. And we're trying to decide what to do next. We did consider doing Harry Potter. Like Ben was like, what if we did Star Trek? What if we did Harry Potter? There was that thought before we went to a director mode of

are there other franchises we could do this deep dive into? And then we decided that was not the thing to do. There was a moment where we thought what if we did... Quarrel would be a very easy choice for us. I think it'd be really interesting. I think that would be great.

And it's sort of weird that we haven't talked about him more. Yeah. Because he's a classic blank check director. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Especially now. Yeah. Yes.

Where he's just like, no, I'm going to buy my time. I think that's the biggest reason we haven't done him yet is that Gravity is going to be his blank checkiest movie. Like, we need to wait to see what that is. He's shot something that hasn't. Yeah, Roma, which I don't. A small like character It's like a family drama

I believe it's set in Mexico and we don't know much about it because it has not yet He shot it a while ago though and it's still no one knows anything about it. Now I'm looking this up. Yeah, but we don't know much about it.

I think Cuaron would be good though. I think he'd be good. For sure. Also because he hasn't made that many movies. But you want to see what he does after Gravity because dude's got that

fucking check. Yeah, but I also think it's amazing that he got to make Gravity after Children of Men. I think that's like a really interesting because Children of Men was not a success but because it was so critically acclaimed and got all the surprise Oscar nominations, they were like, okay, all right, you know, fine, fine.

And obviously, and also stars wanted to work with him. Right. But yeah, it's like- What is his breakout movie a little princess but like is that a breakout movie that's a weird breakout

right cause that was just like a solid honestly his real breakout is Ito Mama Tomy right okay that's right

you're right but it is funny that he makes this small independent Mexican film then he makes a little princess in great expectations

no no but he I think he made a little princess first yeah he makes it's called Solo Tunku Pareho. Oh, that's what you mean.

Okay, yes, go on. And then Little Princess and Great Expectations, then Ito Mamatambien, then Harry Potter, Children of Men, Gravity. It's an interesting contained run. It is. His collaborator, was it his son? Oh, Jonas Cuaron.

Yeah, who just directed a film that movie desierto last year that is basically gravity in the desert no it's a straight up horror movie about like what if a crazy american guy just tried to shoot uh mexican immigrants trying to come over the border with a gun really my god and uh i don't think it's a good movie yeah per se it was an interesting idea but it's very very movie yeah per se it was an interesting idea but it's very very blunt and direct and it's just jeffrey dean morgan plays the crazy american guy which is the very on the nose casting and that's gail garcia bernal garcia bernal is the the main immigrant trying to make it over the border there are others too um but that movie is brutal

so the hurt locker uh at this point have we gotten to the drinking scene yet? Or that happens after? Well, no. So first is the Ray Fines scene. Ray Fines. Ray Fines. Ray Fines. I'll talk about this for a second.

This effect of if you don't recognize Ray Fines by his eyes, the second he pulls off the scarf, everyone in the audience goes, oh, familiar face. She pulled a fast one on us. Right. Like, it's immediately diffused because it's a movie star. And also, right, the idea is they're like, who are you guys? Who are you guys?

You don't look like soldiers. Who are you guys? And they pull it off and he's like, you fucking Americans. And he says like, you guys are really wound up tight or something like that.

You immediately feel comfortable with this guy. But I love the fact that he's so cooperative and he goes along with it. And he seems like, he seems like Renner-ish in that he's unflapped,

unflappable-ish. Seems like a bit of a cad. He's a little Renner-ish in that he's unflapped, unflappable-ish. Seems like a bit of a cad. He's a little Renner-ish. And they're bounty hunting, essentially, right? With their fucking plate? Their contractors. They've got the deck of cards, which is a real thing. Which is obscene.

But anyway, that's fine. Do you remember when they were selling those in New York? That was a big thing. You could buy them on the Internet. Right. They were like crazy. But like people had them on the street in New York a lot. I remember they were like a hot fucking item.

What a weird time. It was it was not good. This is the Blackwater. Right. Essentially. That's what they're British. So it's a little. Yeah.

They're whatever. You know. But yes. So. And all of course lots of different companies are crawling around the middle east you know yeah yeah so they start being like you guys are wound up tight we're the cool people who get it yeah and then they get massacred right they're like the senior to renters right freshmen right and they get massacred by no one in particular just some some guys probably snipers who are trying to free their captives no

yeah right but it's not like these are villains like that we have any sense they're just people you know yeah they're not in the deck of cards and then you have this drawn out incredibly thought through sniper scene that's incredible uh that part of it is that they uh um just have to wait like it's a lot of very long time and renner i think i mean sorry james steps up and is the the captain in a way or or the leader in a way that he hasn't been before he does he deals with that all like totally professionally he coaches them and brings the best combat ness out of them right he does it all right which is right yeah he's just he's still you know because he's playing the spotter role for the sniper right he doesn't move which is what you're supposed to do he takes the bedside man yeah yeah he takes care i don't know what to do and he's like you

just got to make a decision it's gonna be okay he coaxes him through it he gets him to like take control of the situation and handle it owen gets to the point where he owen gets to the point where he does save them right he is able to do the thing that he was afraid he wasn't gonna be right the sort of ambiguous situation of like someone's approaching i think they have a gun like what do i do yeah but there's already been a couple moments in the film where he's like yelling at garrity where he's like god damn it where's my fucking thing faster Come faster, come on, be on the ball. And then this moment when he's like, I need ammo,

I need ammo, we're out of ammo, get me ammo. So they look at, I can't find ammo anywhere. Check the dead bodies. Okay, it's stuck.

Cleaned it off. I don't know how to clean it off. Here's how you do it, spit and rub. You expect that Renner's going to now really burst and just start yelling at him. He doesn't. Instead, he just calms down.

He slides down to his level. He's like, you're good. You're a good soldier. You're doing a great job. You should feel really proud of yourself. Right. Yeah, he's calms down. He slides down to his level. He's like, you're good. You're a good soldier. You're doing a great job. You should feel really proud of yourself. Right. Yeah, he's like a soccer coach.

He's the perfect person. But the kid who's about to start crying. All of a sudden, right. And it really highlighted for me how fucking dumb the things that war requires are. Like that you have to clean the blood off of sniper bullets. With your saliva. With your saliva. That is your duty now, soldier.

That is what you are being called on. In the desert. How you will be called on. You're a little dehydrated right now. Next to a dead Ray Fonz. Yeah, exactly. Arguably the greatest actor of the 90s. Dead in the sand.

Dead in the sand. Two Emmy Award nominations. They don't count for anything. And all you've got is Capri Sun, right? Like, that's what they're drinking. Oh, God, can I talk about this for a second? Please. Maybe my single favorite moment in the movie.

Them fumbling with the straws. But it's like, here's Jeremy Renner. His job is professionally disarming explosive devices. Hands shaking. And even he can't puncture a Capri Sun without it squirting out the top. Like, I like this little argument the movie's making which is like it is actually impossible that's the real argument

of this movie that's the whole the bomb diffuser is just like that's a diversion for the real boys it's the most political part of this film

that's true as Catherine Bigelow just says I want to make it clear in case you've ever felt bad about getting Capri Sun all over your hands that literally

no one can do it right impossible he's trying and he gets the straw in and it squirts out the top. The odd thing to me is that it showed, to me, the institutional disinterest in these people's actual lives. The Capri Sun company as an industry. There's many times where something breaks or doesn't work.

And it's like, what happened? It's the U.S. Army. What are you going to do? And it's like, what's the something they need right now they need sustenance they need electrolytes they need juice here's the shittiest possible way to open a juice right you are going to be stressed the fuck out and your hands are going to be shaking if capri incorporated actually cared about people they would put a little less juice in the pouch so that you could puncture it and get air yeah before you have squeeze. It's interesting they don't

just turn it around and do it at the bottom like we did in school. I never fucking did that. Are you kidding me? Are you crazy? You've never thought about that? No. Did you do that? I didn't drink Capri Sun that much. Oh, you fucking great. Okay. Jesus Christ. What were you drinking?

Fucking. Ribena. What? Ribena. Drinking your Jesus Christ What were you drinking? Ribena What? Drinking your Lucozade? I want to eat some more of your English candy while you're at it Lucozade is fucking English candy This is an American fucking podcast David I've had some Cadbury's David

For the listener at home I just threw four Cadbury's at David You've never taken a Capri Sun pouch I know what you're just wiping I know what you're just wiping I never the flattering I never thought of doing that what are you fucking kidding me

I'm not guess what I'm gonna do when this fucking podcast ends buy a 12 pack of Capri Suns get home practice yeah you got to the reason I like this scene is because

I think I think it would be much easier to dismiss will james yes if he was not the guy who he is in the scene the men she moved yeah yeah yeah get me the juice get me the juice punctures it immediately to mackie without hesitation right without sip it like very firm it's like so loving in a way simultaneously like you need to take care of yourself. And that's actually a very, I mean, to go back to the gender dynamics of it, there's sort of a maternal element there, right? And that's so interesting, like to think about how these men get masculine together.

And like one of the things they have to do is care for each other in these very fraught times. And especially for a guy who's this unflappable and doesn't need anyone to hand him a packet of juice. He's totally aware the fact that he's aware that he's the weird one and everyone else needs to be like you know

Garrett needs to be talked to gently but sometime just to move us off because sometime right around this is the scene where they are essentially

wrestling and drinking and punching each other I think it's right after they're hyped up it was an insane day they had they got hyphy and they're smashing

each other shout out to the. They got hyphy. And they're smashing each other. Shout out to the woman. Yeah, they got hyphy. And I think that scene is so good. That's the moment where Sophie said to me, this is the most masculine movie I've ever seen. So tell me why you think it's so good. Because I just think that a lot of filmmakers,

and I'm not even saying this is a gender thing where she has some magical insight into men because she's a woman. I think she has magical insight into men, to be clear. And it definitely helps that she's a woman. But she's also just a really good director. I think she also understands behavior really well. And she's really fascinated in the difference in behavior

between masculine people and feminine people. Sure, sure, sure. But I'm saying most people would make this scene frightening. And she doesn't make this scene frightening. Like that doesn't mean that she thinks this scene is like a harmless expression of their excess energy. Right. Sure.

But most people would be like, this is a dark, frightening thing that's being exposed here. And she sort of shows it to be like roughhousing. It is like play. Like a playground. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's my whole read of the scene. Even when it gets intense, James' response is just like, huh, you know. Yeah. My whole read of the scene is I was never a physical child. I hated playing sports,

but also whenever boys went to a roughhouse, I did not want fucking anything to do with that. I would hang out with girls on the playground and we'd talk about fucking whatever. Like I would spend time

getting into girls' pop culture so I'd have subjects to talk about with them. I would watch all the girls' cartoon shows because I'd be like, they're over there wrestling each other. Like what starts out as gentle play will very quickly turn into a physical fight. They're having fun. I will not have fun doing that. But there is that sort of rush that young boys have, and it even goes on to, like, frat boys in certain quarters of just, like, fucking headlocking guys and sparring and whatever.

If you're not trying to hurt each other, that adrenaline rush of that kind of thing. And Jeremy Renner is a guy who never grew out of that. And now he's, like, that was his, like, fucking gateway drug, and now he's onto the harder shit, which is disarming bombs. It's the same level of, like, that threat of danger that I can prevent.

But they all do it. I think it's not just Renner. And I think that it's almost like the military the point you need to be at. A lot of people are in the military for reasons other than just they want a rough house.

But it brings that out of it. I agree. I think that either needs to be activated within you or you're someone But it brings that out of you. I agree, I agree. But I think that either needs to be activated within you or you're someone who seeks out that kind of thrill. It is a heightened version of what makes five-year-olds, without any sort of deliberate intentionality, just start grappling with each other.

I never had that thing. Which, by the way, I think women do too. Girls do too. I think it's a different thing. But I think there's a very straight line between this kind of roughhousing and becoming a soulmate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. a different thing. But I think there's a very straight line between this kind of rough housing and becoming a soulmate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And the fact that she identifies that, and I wonder how much this was in the script and stuff because it's a kind of wordless scene.

But, like, the fact that she identifies that as being so crucial to this narrative is amazing. Sure, but this scene is also very well directed. Even if that was 100% in the script described as such, the energy of the scene, the tone of the scene, how it's depicted, the fact that it never does get scary, even when there's like the knife out and everything. It's a tiny scary. Yeah, it's a little scary in that it's fine. She's walking a very fine line in this

and the scene is always like perfectly judged. Why does, tell me something, why does Sanborn get to punch Renner, or James rather? He owes him one, I don't know. But I couldn't figure out what he owed him for. Oh. No, Renner got a shot on him.

They do say something. It's when they're punching back and forth. And he draws, Owen draws the big X with the thing. I just thought that was interesting.

But then after this scene is what I think we already decided. They talk about the wife at this scene. They find. Yes, they do. Right, right, right, right.

And is that the scene where he shows them his weird box of trophies? He finds the weird box of trophies they find it he's feeling close to them what the fuck is this they all talk about it

each other and the only time James gets pissed off is when they say shit about his wife and he's like no no no she's just loyal

she's not stupid and it's not even that charged but he's like don't go there that's not and he also weirdly I mean he's very defensive of her

but doesn't seem to like her very much exactly he just knows that he's not you know but he also weirdly I mean he's very defensive of her but doesn't seem to like her very much exactly he just knows that he's not one to judge he makes that like that fucking Henny Youngman joke about like

like I said things that almost killed me about the wedding ring right right right but the bigger point he makes is like you have a wife and he's like kind of

I mean we got divorced but then she didn't move out we're still together I don't know what you call that yeah I got a kid and everyone's like she's stupid

because you suck. But then we come to the difficult third quarter of the movie because then we have the scene in the warehouse where they find a boy whose body has a bomb implanted in it. Body bomb! And James is insisting this is Beckham. Obviously we don't

really get much of a look at the boy. And his face is all bloodied. Right. And that is actually a young boy so we're sort of in the dark. And his face is all bloodied. Right and that is actually. He's a young boy. It's a young boy. We only really see of the children we see on the street they're all boys. The girl children are not really out and there's a lot of boys and they're running around the cars they're selling DVDs things like that. You see a lot of them. It's very interesting to me that both Sanborn and Owen are like is it that kid?

They're like, I don't even know how he tells them apart. And then of course we do see Betham later. But so much later that you go through this whole really fucking awful scene thinking that it might be this guy? This kid? The point of this scene is even James seems to have reached

his limits where he's just like, let's just blow this up. I also think this is the most political section of the movie because I think this functions like a microcosm for what she's saying about these wars which is just like there was this weird sense of like revenge we felt.

A sense of like injustice that needed to be corrected and he goes on this whole fucking fool's errand doesn't even know really what he's looking for or if what he's looking for even exists he's trying to find the guy responsible for a crime that didn't actually happen to the person

he thinks it did and it's almost like this I mean I think it is analogous to searching for weapons of mass destruction entering these homes that he wasn't invited into, feeling that he's doing the right thing. And then that weird scene of him with the doctor where the doctor's saying,

you're a guest, sit down, and he can't figure out, why aren't you being antagonistic to me? And then the wife comes out and is like, get the fuck out of here! It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. I think this is her section of saying the whole relationship.

I think it's his section, but carry on. Sure, sure. But I think it's kind section but carry on sure but I think it's kind of interesting spot because it does function as character building it is the moment where he's like what the fuck

am I doing now I used to always at least be right like even if I was crazy I was correct and now he goes on this weird like Jason Bourne

side mission where he's like wearing a fucking hoodie and he's got a gun and he's holding up drivers and whatever but he has no idea what the fuck

he's talking about and it feels it holding up drivers and whatever but he has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. Yeah. And it feels like 2003. And how much harm he creates. Right like how much distrust he sows like the fact that he makes that poor DVD seller like feel so fucking terrified. Yeah right where he

essentially makes that man have to never come back. He's ruining his livelihood. He's ruined this guy's livelihood. As tough a livelihood as it is. In this completely ravaged place, this is the one thing this guy's got. So he's ruining that guy's life. He's going into someone else's home.

De-stabilize a country. I had not thought about it metaphorically. And then of course, right after that is the scene where they go on this quote-unquote mission into the dark. And then, of course, right after that is the scene where they go on this, like, quote unquote mission. Right. Which is very, like, dark. Yeah.

You know, just the three of them. And this is where anytime you read an interview with a soldier, they're like, this is all ludicrous. No one would ever do this. Soldiers do not like this movie. No. They do not like this. They do not like this stuff. A lot of soldiers do like a lot of this movie.

Yeah. Like, in terms of getting the general vibe exactly. They say that the missions don't play out in a way that technically makes any sense. Sure. Like, they're not talking over the radios

and things like that. Things I think she deliberately chooses as storytelling measures of, like, I don't want a bunch of scenes of people fucking miles away from each other talking over comms.

Sure. Right. So she keeps them close and everything. Also, he is a little bit of an anomaly in many ways. Right, yeah. But it is, I don't know

especially the scene where they go and split up which is even within their stupid decision or another dumb decision which is what gets Eldridge Garrett shot in the leg I went down a rabbit hole last night so here's my question does it work does the movie work if you take out

this I don't know how they resolve Beckham but does this movie work if you take out this well i don't know how they resolve beckham but does this movie work if you take out the body vaccine i would argue that the inferno scene the like very obvious war is hell scene yeah that is then followed with that side mission that alone could tell the story of his adrenaline fix without needing yeah i just right i think both of these things are on the nose. It's not my favorite part of the movie. I think the movie would work without it.

I don't think it takes anything away from the film. Those are my three feelings on it. No, no, no. I think it's all interesting shading within it. I like her sort of making this more allegorical point about the sort of like, I don't know, this feels right in the moment kind of like oorah mentality well and it really

it makes the disorientation very visceral that like he literally doesn't know he thinks he likes this kid and he literally doesn't can't even recognize this kid I think it's worth it for that moment I think the moment when Beckham comes up to him with the DVDs and he's so fucking shaken right I think

that's such a good fucking payoff. I mean, it asks you to like engage in a 15 minute red herring for that payoff. Yeah. And the larger point when the rest of the movie is so like just constructed of these very. But then how interesting that the red herring is so detailed. I mean, I think that's part of it. Like, it's not just that it's like a kid that he sees dead or a kid that he sees bloodied and he immediately thinks it's that kid it's like he sees this kid dead he

eviscerates this kid in order to get it right because he originally says let's just bomb the entire place it goes like no and then he can't do it right so he we see him cutting like fuck it's not even surgical yeah it's not even sutures it's's like wire that has been used to put this person together. A thing that does not happen. We know this does not happen in real life. A tough scene to watch at a bagel shop. I kept on covering up the screen because people... A tough scene to watch.

A scene that doesn't really exist. So that's such a big swing to take for that one payoff. And I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I'm saying it's something. I agree with that yeah the other thing i'll say in defense of this sequence is it's the one time in the movie we see him totally out of his depth and his element he knows how to do one thing particularly well right which is this sort of disarmament of the explosives and when it's him doing person to person right when it literally becomes a person when When the machine that has no face

suddenly becomes a thing with a face. Right. That fucks him up. Like he only knows how to deal with like wires and bolts. But I don't.

But it's weird because the movie has not really been about metaphor until that point. I agree. Yeah. I agree.

It's a little on the nose. Maybe think of Bo Bergdahl a little bit too. The vigilante. Who Mark Pohl eventually tried to write a movie about. And I can't believe you would bring up this podcast's major rival, Serial.

I know. Season two. It's true. We are on the same level. It's the same kind of podcast, same cultural impact, same money made. By the way, our new spinoff podcast, Peeville, which stands for Poopville, that launches next week. It's one story told over 27 parts. Peeville. which stands for Poopville. That launches next week. It's one story told over 27 parts. Peeville.

Check it out. You just killed everything. Just dead. Brought to you by Mail Camp. Peeville. Oh, God. I remember the good old days of cereal. No, I didn't mean to cut you off.

It was a simpler time. It was a simpler time. That was the first podcast. We had no idea what this would turn into. So after all this stuff, none of which I love, but is all of it's okay. And then we already talked about

what I think is the best scene out of all this, which is the burst pipe scene, as you put it. The Anthony Mackie being realizing like, I can't handle this anymore. But that comes after

the human, the sort of suicide bomber guy with the locks. Oh, he's right. That's the scene we should talk about. Oh, we're right. That's the scene we should talk about. Well, and to quickly say this

about that scene, him going into the shower is really intense. Ooh, yes. I think. And I think that there is a moment of self-reflection there

that there wasn't necessarily. Even though he gets over it really fast and kind of has his game face on when Owen goes in the chopper and fucking yells at him, which again is a scene I really like.

Yeah, and says, fuck you, you did this to me. Yeah, fuck you, you did this to me. And James is like, you're still alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can go home. Things are fine. Yeah. Right, I'm not just a pawn for you to get your thrills.

He says whatever that line is, which I think is a really concise, like, I'm done being your fucking... It's the summary of the takeaway of the movie. Right, right, right. I'm not what you bet in order to try to win at the poker table. And then I would say that from this point on, the movie is brilliant.

Like back to being like. The last 20 minutes are not that. The innocent suicide bomber scene is so wrenching. It's completely wrenching. And I'd forgotten when you said, you know, talking about forgetting the end of this movie the body bomb stuff

I had completely forgotten I forgot about Beckham as a character but that scene always stuck in my mind very very viscerally of that feeling of him

having to look at a guy in the eyes as you said now there's a human face on it right he's like I'm sorry and to recognize

his fucking limits and it's as you said the frustration of it's not even. And to recognize his fucking limits. And it's, as you said, the frustration of, it's not even that I've been outsmarted by this. It's literally, I don't have the time and the equipment to take care of this. It's impossible. It is fully impossible for me to stop this from happening.

That guy constantly, the translator, repeating over and over again, like, he's a good man, he's a family man. And Renner's like, don't fucking psych me out with this stuff. Like, I'm already up against a lot. Don't make me feel bad in advance that's quite a scene it's quite a scene oh boy um and then it said it seeks so quickly well for it seeks so quickly from anthony mackie in doing his his wonderful scene in the humvee now he wants a son before he wasn't ready yeah nowner kept on saying like it's easy

just put some sperm inside a lady. And he's like A. Gross. B. Not ready. And Renner doesn't even understand why you wouldn't want to have a child

because well I have a child I'm not there that's not a problem. He never thinks about having a child. Yeah just make a baby. But now Mackie is so strongly like I don't want to be here

this is not what I want to be I want to be a father I want to have a little boy I want to raise a boy. And then we go very quickly to he's in a supermarket. There's a hard cut. Yeah. Like there's not even a transition.

Tanya said it's flashback, right? And I was, and I didn't want to say anything. I was like, it's not like. I think the scene is so good. Oh, it's so, the supermarket? Yes. Because it's just, just that concept. And I know like, you know, I've never really traveled to a country that is so far removed from my experience of the world.

But I do know, you know, people who have describing that where you were turning like supermarkets, especially. Supermarkets are crazy. Very overwhelming where you're like, right, why are there 8 million cereals? Like, why is there like so much choice? It's like that it's very overwhelming. Like the whole environment is so alien. And it's sterile. And the fucking fluorescent lights.

And the music. I would argue that that shot with him staring at the cereal is what wins this movie Best Picture. It's so good. I honestly think that's the thing that pushes this movie over the edge. I think if this movie ended with the Mackie scene, it would have been nominated. No, no, no, but totally. Having that as the coda it's somehow like re-intextualizes the entire

movie pushes it over the edge in such an elegant way it's a scene with his wife and she gets like she has top billing in the movie for like two seconds I think she's third bill right I think she's like fifth or something but she's like

before the and. You have that one phone call. It's crazy. Morse, Fiennes, and Pierce are all gathered in a sort of with and area. There's a lot of buts. Also Van Damme. It's crazy how quickly. It's almost like you didn't realize how used you'd gotten to the Iraqi atmosphere. That's great because she holds on that shot for so long.

Right. Until she snaps to the supermarket and then this cold, wet, the exact opposite of cold, wet, fall, like the leaves. He's cleaning the leaves out of the gutter. And we've been doing these shots of like so close on Jeremy Renner's face that you're like taking note of the fly that's like buzzing around his mouth and his eye. Right, right, into the eye. Which all of that shit is so good. Yeah. But then when it's just like he's tiny, he's microscopic,

he's never felt more insignificant than when he's faced with like Toucan Sam. Yes. And like the Nesquik bunny. It's like wall of cereals. Right, and it's like here's one shot that sums up the entire movie. And then. And it's so masterful. And then, and everything, the supermarket and the scene

where he's trying to talk to her about what he's seen. Yeah. These are two, I mean, and I'm paraphrasing Tanya here too, very classic. Vets trying to reintegrate back into the world and failing to. No, right. And then, of course, we... Go ahead. Evangeline Lilly's high billing, right?

Coupled with the fact that for a long time when she was trying to get this movie made, they, I think, originally tried to do it with Colin Farrell. That would have been good. Right. And there was another, your favorite actor. Interesting. There was another big,

I think he's got too much face for it, to be honest with you. Give me that face. I agree with that. He doesn't look smudgy enough. Yeah, he doesn't have that

Jeremy Renner smudge. I can't believe I'm siding with the smudge now. Okay. But the other, this was when they were trying to make it for, you know,

a bigger budget, more commercial film. It said Charlize Theron to play the other, this was when they were trying to make it for a bigger budget, more commercial film. It said Charlize Theron to play the wife, which this is post-Monster. So I think at some point, I've never gotten this confirmed. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a version of the script and perhaps even what they shot, where once he goes back home, there's like 15 minutes as opposed to what really is in the film, like five minutes or less. Right. I think she got there.

And once you have the supermarket scene, it's like we don't need anything else. Right. That sums it up so fucking well. It's so concise. Right. I have to imagine she shot more. Especially because like this is her like peak lost. Everyone was waiting for the show to end so she could become a movie star, which then didn't really happen.

But I remember that being that thing of like someone's going to make Evangeline Lilly happen, right? Let's make her an elf. Let's have her train Hugh Jackman to robot box, you know? No, I mean, it's a really good point because what you end up seeing is how quickly you come to the conclusion of the film. Which is just that, oh, he's totally unsuited for this and he doesn't know how to do this

I'm watching it on my iPad and I'm on the Amazon app great company eating a bagel and I'm seeing how much time is like left in the movie

and when it cuts into the supermarket I'm like 10 minutes left and there are credits too yeah exactly I was like

how is there so little of this movie left right but that's it because the only you just have the one shot he talks to his baby, his baby, about the Jack in the box,

which is pretty, which is on the nose, but it's fine. I guess it's good. And he sells it. He underplays it. I think, I think he sells it.

He sells everything. This is a remarkable star making. This is the modicum of self-awareness he has. He knows that for some reason he only wants this, but he can't really frame that. Put that in the frame of the rest of the world. Exactly. I think the scene would go too far if he started explaining what he likes about it. Right, right, right.

But to him, it's exactly the same as the jack-in-the-box, which is like, I'm looking at this. This is a piece of tan and a stuffed animal. It should have no inherent intrigue. It used to for me. And now I found this new jack-in-the-box. I can't intellectualize it. I don't know why, but this is the one thing that fucking makes sense

to me oh my god I didn't quite realize that like the Hurt Locker is the Jack in the Box I guess like

something jacket so this movie was first called oh yeah which is also a cool title the what? the something jacket something jacket

I think it's a shitty title what exactly I mean the Hurt Locker in my mind is just where you put the pain right? yeah that's what they sort of said it's like a term because it's a shitty title. What exactly? I mean, the Hurt Locker, in my mind, is just where you put the pain, right? Yeah, that's what they sort of said. It's like a term, because there's a guy who sued Mark Boll and said that he

stole everything from him. There was a soldier who, like, Mark Boll was embedded for a long time. He worked with a bunch of different troops and whatever. And he said, there's this one guy who was like, I'm very much the Jeremy Renner character in this movie. I was the one who sent the Hurt Locker to him and they countersued

and were like Hurt Lockers existed as a term since the Vietnam War like he worked with like 300 different dudes their elements

their incidents and the case was dismissed but it was this like term that stuck in Mark Bowles' craw that I think was

like I want to make a movie about that sensation these guys who just kind of keep on trucking. And then you have like what is the most kind of classically heroic like cowboy shots of Renner in the movie which is

him getting off the plane with a duffel bag, re-employment, and then there's just a quick cut and now the boots become the Stay Puft boots. These boots are made for walking. Bomb defusing? Yeah. The scene that the the shot that just got me was when so you i think you cut to black after the uh after you see the helicopters you cut to black and then it just slowly the light yeah comes onto his face and it's just a few

seconds long but i was like that's the whole movie the whole movie is trying to see this person clearly and it's just it's so beautifully done i think too and also not was like that's the whole movie the whole movie is trying to see this person clearly and it's just so beautifully done I think too and also not to like hit the Renner smudge face thing too much but there's an earlier moment I think when he's looking for you know whoever he thinks

body bombed Beckham and you see Jeremy Renner totally in silhouette I'm like that's that motherfucking movie star thing where no one looks like Jeremy Renner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, Jeremy Renner in complete shadow from the side is distinctively, could not be anyone other than Jeremy Renner. Well, and that it's, it should be he's entering from, it should be that he's entering into

the darkness. The war is the darkness. But instead it's completely inverted and it's just so. He's a silly boy and then he's beaming right he walks down with his Stay Puft

Marshmallow Man suit 365 days left he's beaming and it says 365 days left he's killing it and it's crazy because for everyone else

it's like a life sentence or like it's a year long sentence and for him he's like thank god so everyone when it comes out I remember because it was a big hit

at the festivals when it played earlier it was it had done a lot of festivals it's commercial sure sure sure it comes out

I remember almost immediately with their views everyone was going like Catherine Bigelow you know never a female winner like that was already

the narrative a little bit but this no no I don't agree with you I remember when that movie came out people being like

Oscar Oscar Oscar and I was like it's a small movie like people were like Renner and I was like I don't agree with you. I remember when that movie came out, people being like, Oscar, Oscar, Oscar. And I was like, it's a small movie. People were like, Renner? And I was like, I don't know if it's going to last all the way. People were boosting Bigelow from the get-go. Reviews! Because everyone wanted to see a female best director.

I think that is a false narrative for this movie. I think this is true. I distinctly remember seeing it and people immediately talking about that. This movie came out. It was a little movie. It took a while it came out in july i didn't see it till at least august if not september because people were like that movie's really good i saw it opening week good for you thank you i'm very proud i mean i don't i don't think this is a movie that came out and right away people were like i smell oscar i only remember them smelling Oscar for her. I don't know.

Maybe. I think it happened fast enough because of course the narrative was always... Even Sofia Coppola, when she got nominated, she was never going to win for Best Director for Lost in Translation. And she was only the third? Fourth in history? Campion, Wurtmuller, Coppola.

I think that's it. And even though, just right, her very the third fourth in history I think Campion Wirtmuller Coppola I think that's it and like even though just right her very presence people were like if Sofia Coppola would she be the

first woman to win and of course in the Oscars themselves when Barbra Streisand presented it she comes out and Barbra Streisand

comes out and you're like well clearly they know they think they know who's winning it's like when they had

Lucas Coppola and Spielberg. Yeah. Come out to present to Scorsese. Right. Yeah. But she comes out and she's like, uh, the winner of this Oscar could be the first woman to win an Oscar.

And everyone's like, huh? And she's like, or could be the first African American to win an Oscar. And everyone's like, oh, right. Lee Daniels.

Sure. And you're like, right. There's a barrier we haven't crossed yet. You know, like, and, uh,

and then she's like and he's only the third at that point second is Singleton the only other black nominee I think at that point now we've had

Steve McQueen and Barry Jenkins Denzel was never nominated as director as a director oh okay Lee Daniels at that point was only second

it was Singleton because Jeffrey Fletcher who wrote Precious was the first black screenwriter to win look the Oscars are embarrassing I have a question what were the other best picture films nominated the other nominees that yeah who wrote Precious was the first black screenwriter to win. Yep. Look, the Oscars are embarrassing.

I have a question. What were the other Best Picture films nominated? The other nominees that, because then she has to do this other thing where she's like, and if any of the other nominees win, they'll be directors

who brought their own stories to their film. Thanks, Barbara. Where it's like, they all wrote their movie. Some guy. Can you name the five nominees, Griff? There were 10 this year.

No, no, no. Five director nominees. Oh, the five director nominees? I want to know the no, five director nominees. Oh, the five director nominees? I want to know the best picture nominees, too. Okay. The five director nominees were... Because it's a good year, in my opinion. Were Lee Daniels,

Catherine Bigelow, Jimmy Cameron for Avatar. James Cameron. Let's see. District 9 was nominated for best picture, but not for best director. True. A Serious Man was nominated for Best Picture

but not Best Director true uh Quentin Tarantino from Glorious Bastards correct nominated Director and Picture

yes uh that would have been my pick that year I think that's a great movie I think that's his best movie fuck you Griffin I think that's his best movie

by do you really think that's his best movie yeah by a long shot yeah someday we'll do that episode I got my whole read

in that movie I think that movie is a masterpiece um and I have problems with him I've seen other read in that movie. I think that movie is a masterpiece. And I have problems with him. I've seen other Tarantino films but I kind of can't with him. You haven't seen Inglourious Basterds?

I have not seen Inglourious Basterds. The two I will stand by until my dying day. I did see Django Unchained and I texted through it and it really drove me crazy. I think they're

very different movies. Okay, I appreciate that. Jackie Brown and Inglourious Basterds are the two I will stand behind until my dying day. The rest of them I have complicated series of feelings about. Okay, go on.

This is a great conversation that I don't care about. Keep going. Okay, wait. So let me think of the other ones. So you've got seven Best Picture nominees, four Director nominees. Yeah. The fifth one is, it's obviously another white guy. Yes.

Single Man didn't get nominated for Best Picture. I'm thinking through the acting nominees now. Crazy Heart did not get nominated for Best Picture. It did thinking through the acting nominees now. Crazy Heart did not get nominated for Best Picture. It did win, unfortunately. But it won Best Actor. Right, so that's that. Monique won Supporting. This is such a beautiful, processed watch.

Yeah. Best Actress that year, 2009, would have been Sandra Bullock. For the Blind Side, which is nominated for Best Picture, but not Best Director. Of course. And then Best Supporting Actor that year, 2000. No, that's Chris' fault, so you're not. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so then who would the fifth person have been?

Give me a clue about the fifth best director. It's a dramedy. Oh, oh, oh. Ben pointed upwards because much like Aloha, this last nominee is all about the sky. It's Jason Reitman for Up in the Air. Oh, nice. Can you name the other two best picture nominees? Well, that's one of them, right? Oh, yeah. I only have one left. No, you Reitman for Up in the Air. Oh, nice. Can you name the other

two Best Picture nominees? Well, that's one of them, right? Oh, yeah. I only have one left. No, you have two left. I have two left. Up. Correct.

There we go. Okay. The other Up. Yeah. And then the 10th one. Give me a clue about the 10th one. Oh, no, wait.

You have them all. You do have them all. Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You have them all. Thank you. Oh, no, you don't. You don't. No, it's a... Oh, no. Did you say have them all. You do have them all. Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You have them all. Thank you. Oh, no, you don't.

You don't. No, it's a... Oh, no. Did you say... It's an English movie. He said both Serious Man and Single Man. No, that's not what I'm talking about. Oh, okay.

There's an English movie. There was an actress nominee in there. For lead? Yes. Is it a Mirren? No. Is it a Dench? A young woman.

A young woman. Very talented. Oh, it's an education. An education. Oh. An education. Oh. An education. An edumacation. So those are the director and picture nominees.

Of course, yes, this movie eventually rushes headlong into, it doesn't win any of the Golden Globes, which go to Avatar. It's this sort of rivalry with Avatar. There's this sort of media narrative of like, oh my God, Bigelow and Cameron, ex-husband and wife. Little movie, big movie. I feel like at the end of the year, Precious was the frontrunner. Everyone was like, this is a weird year because there doesn't really seem like a frontrunner.

Precious was almost by default. Hurt Locker had been out of theaters for a while at that point and was so small that people thought it really couldn't get interaction. When are you saying that Precious was the frontrunner? Like November. Right, because then Hurt Locker sweeps the critical award. I'm saying pre-nominations when just everyone

was seeing the movies they were like I guess it's Precious. Avatar wasn't screened until very late. Everyone thought it was going to be a flop and then when it came out

it surprisingly became this Best Picture front runner because it's a weird three hour sci-fi movie. Well and also when the best again Streisand's like you know

in one of these films is the most successful film ever made. Ever made. And you're kind of like, right, Avatar. The most successful film ever made. I think if Avatar had made $350 million as opposed to $750 million, it would have won Best Picture. Sure, the narrative might not have been there. Oh, you're saying, well, anyway.

I don't think it should have, but I think it would have. Maybe. I think when it crossed $700 million, everyone was like, we don't need to give another fucking thing. I think, honestly, he was never going to win because of Titanic, personally. But maybe. I don't think he was ever going to win Best Director. I think she had that on lock. I think if the movie had made a little less money, it would have won Best Picture just for the size of it.

But here's my question, dude. How do we feel about the narrative of James Cameron, like, seeding his Oscar win to his ex-wife. I agree with that. I think it's kind of obnoxious. I think he inserted himself into that narrative. I agree. Here's the narrative I like. Yeah.

Catherine Bigelow just fucking owning her ex-husband. That's the narrative I play in my mind. But he has to spin it like this in order to keep his, like, credibility. Right, so I don't listen to what he is saying, and I listen to her silence. James Cameron's a great person to not listen to. But then here's the silence on just being like... And I think it casts this sort of shadow. It's like, well,

much like Sofia Coppola, did Catherine Bigelow get this movie made because of her connection to men in the industry? Maybe, but isn't that true? But I also think, I mean, he apparently helped her a lot in this film, was one of the people who she was between a couple projects and he said

you gotta make this this is like this could be the defining war film they remain close I think James Cameron is friends with all his exes because all his exes

are like you know what it's great not being married to you but I do like you and you're a fun person to talk to who's just being married to you that was really stressful

they were key collaborators too you know they're people who are like because they've already collaborated on a movie post-divorce. Because Strange Days, he wrote it and she directed it. I think they have a genuine relationship,

but it is funny. I think the answer is objectively, no, it would not have gotten made. But I also think she's in a specific position because it's not just like, well, she needed men to help her. It's like, she's lucky that her ex-husband, who she's still on good terms with,

vouches for her artistically. Right, but also, you know, this was an indie movie. She got the money together. You know, I mean, this is a Catherine Bigelow production. Yeah, I mean, like, it isn't even like a Megan Ellison writes the check. No, I just think Cameron always helped her in terms of he was taken so seriously

during the periods of time where she was discounted and he would always kind of say to people like you don't understand how good a filmmaker she is. Right. Even if you can discount her as an action filmmaker say this or that I know the bones of what makes a good film. I say we stop talking about James Cameron right now. I agree. It's important to talk about within the narrative of the Oscars

and all the blah blah blah box office game. I want to play the box office game. Yes. I want to play the box office game. Jinx you want me to? Yeah. Great. Okay. This movie came out on four theaters June 26, 2009. We're going to do this week because it never really expanded. It just went slowly. This is the right week to do. Okay.

2009, June 26, but it opens number 27 with $145,000 on four screens. I mean, it's pretty good. Two days after my birthday. Congratulations. Birthday. Benjamin. Number one at my birthday. Congratulations. Birthday. Benjamin. Number one at the movie. Okay.

Number one at the movie. Number one at the movie is a new film. Sorry, this is a game we play so now. Connoisseur of Contest. I'm following along. Yeah, you're following along. Of Contest. Number one at the box office is a new film that is also number one in the highly ill-advised box office mojo category of Travelogue Middle East,

which The Hurt Locker also belongs to. Oh, my God. Let me tell you, when you think about this movie, which opens to $108 million. Oh, my God, is it Borat? Is it something like Borat? No, no, no. I believe I know what it is.

Is it Transformers Revenge of the Fallen? Correct. The second Transformers movie. That's a really bad way to characterize that movie so wait uh so sex in the city 2 doesn't come out until the following year right that's 2010 or 2011 because that would also i imagine be in that box office mojo category sex and the city 2 travelogue middle east is number 15 in the travelogue middle east uh which again to tell you how ill-advised travelogue Middle East which again to tell you how ill advised travelogue yeah

fuck that Transformers Passion of the Christ is number two I don't think that's a travelogue Passion of the Christ American Sniper Iron Man

which I mean yeah okay has seen set in the Middle East Raiders of the Lost Ark Aladdin Mission Impossible it's a nightmare

this list is a nightmare Lawrence of Arabia in there that's the only one that seems like a nightmare. Is Lawrence of Arabia in there? That's the only one that seems like a travelogue. It may not be in this box. Sex and the City 2 is like a bunch of white women being like, wouldn't it be fun to go to the Middle East? That is a genuine travelogue. They travel to the UAE

for no particular reason. Movies about people being embedded in war there. That does also have a scene where Samantha... Jesus walking through the stations of the cross. Sure. Yeah. Sex and the City 2 does have a scene where Samantha... Jesus walking through the stations of the cross. Sure. Yeah. A travelogue. Sex and the City 2

does have a scene where Samantha says Lawrence of Mylabia referring to a hot man. Wow, what a showstopper. She did and he was. I'm so glad we introduced that into this really important

discussion of this white war film. Lawrence of Mylabia. Anyway, number two at the box office that weekend is a rom-com that was a huge surprise breakout hit of this summer the proposal the proposal who remembers that movie sandra bullock

ryan reynolds i'll say this so canada canada sure yeah a scene where they are nude a scene where she is naked yeah right he's wearing a towel to each other yeah no no they bump into each other oh no yeah they bump into each other they're nude and they bump into each other she looks really good they both look really good in that movie

yeah and then they switch places I hated this movie oh it's a bad movie yeah I've never seen this movie it's really bad I will say

it does have it's like also at the height of Betty White fever this is what launched Betty White fever this is what reignited it I know

and it's like so many like horny Betty know and it's like so many like horny betty white jokes it's romley newman past and future guest close personal friend of mine sister we go way back uh that's that's my improvised line i snuck into the tick which i'm really proud of and so i use it every time rom comes up on the show uh she loves rom-coms kind of, but rom-coms up on the show. She loves rom-coms, rom-ly comedies. And we asked her at dinner two years ago,

we were going through all the bad rom-coms that Rom likes, like, what's your favorite? And she said, no question, The Proposal. She cites that as the best romantic comedy of her lifetime. That's insane. When she comes back on the show, whenever that happens, we will fucking put her on trial. I love rom-coms and your sister is wrong. I'm sorry.

I love Romilly and rom-coms, but I do not love the proposal. I've never seen it. I tried watching 15 minutes of it on plane. I could not get through. She swears by it. I don't know if she's ever rewatched it. Has she seen My Best Friend's Wedding?

Yeah, loves it. Very confusing. Loves it. She like has respect for the ones that deserve to be on the Mount Rushmore. Has seen every notable rom-com from 1980 on, I would say. Swears by that movie. Also loves Bullock.

That's a big part of it. I think she likes seeing Bullock in the element. Bullock too. I just don't like the proposal. She's good in it, I guess. She's doing her Bullock thing. It's a good Sandra Bullock rom-com while you were sleeping. That's a good one.

I've never seen that one. It's a fun one. That's a good Sandra Bullock rom-com while you were sleeping. I've never seen that one. That's a good Garcia too. The best Sandra Bullock rom-com is Speed. Anyway, number three. You were going to make the same joke, right? We're all on the same point. A thousand comedy points shared between the three of us.

I just stopped it in my tracks there. Comedy points family style. We all go in on them. Yeah, it's like maz sticks number three at the box office is like if the proposal

was a comedy sensation this was the comedy sensation of 2000 the hangover jeez yeah never forget number four

my mother's favorite movie my mom fucking loves that movie too I don't know why my mom's like that movie my mom has not seen that movie my mom loves that movie my mom fucking loves that movie too I don't know why my mom's like that movie my mom has not seen that movie my mom loves that movie my mom fucking swears by that movie

five minutes of the movie came on TV and my mom was laughing so hard she had her face covered like it was unreal it's amazing my mom my mom said that was the hardest

she ever laughed until Girls Trip this year man I'm a ballistic for Girls Trip ballistic Ben please pitch the prequel to Sonia

okay so Sonia it's the hangover but it's the prequel to Sonia. Okay, so Sonia, it's the hangover, but it's a prequel. It's called The Buzz. Okay. They're all in high school. It's the same four guys, and one of them gets locked in the gender closet, and it's the day of prom, and they gotta find him.

Now, wait. I want to make something very clear, okay? We have a segment on the show sometimes called Benny on the Record, where Ben tries to predict something. Sonia, you're a journalist for Variety, a major, major pillar of reporting within this industry. Oh, boy. This is Benny off the record, okay? He's pitching this around town. There's a lot of buzz.

It's a hot package. It's a hot, yeah. Sources are saying. Right. Okay? So you cannot break this story. We're only going to record it and release it on a podcast, but you cannot break this story we're only going to record it and release it on a podcast but you cannot report on this pitch

scouts honor Benny off the record and also anyone listening out there don't take this idea look at the running time it's time to be done David's so agitated number four at the box office

I'm trying to think of what the animal would be that shows up. Oh, sure. It's going to be a toucan. I don't know. Number four at the box office. A movie they all thought was going to be not as successful as the movies this studio usually releases. But boy, were they wrong. Just because it

stars an old man. Oh, Up. Up. Oh. Yeah, that was their argument always was like no one made toys for Up because they were like what are the kids going to like? And it's like first of all every kid loves their grandpa. Yep.

Second of all the main fucking supporting cast of the movie is Talking Dog. It's like dogs and weird animals. No one made toys for that movie and the movie is fucking dogs flying airplanes. But also balloons.

Yeah. Kids love balloons. And a little balloons. Yeah. Kids love balloons. And a little boy. There's a little boy scout. There was no merchandise for that movie. It's so bizarre. When we do our fucking up episode, there's going to be a negative merchandise spotlight. Have we been in this room for three hours?

Yes, we have. We've been in this room for 100 million years. We're never doing our up episode, but if we ever do do it, it would be called fucking up. Peeville, that was funny. Let's talk about it more. We're going back. Number five at the box office.

Our up episode is going to be in our Pete Docter series, which is going to be called Podsters Cast. I hate you. I hate everyone in the world. Podsters Cast. That's so cute. Podsters Ca. Number five at the box office

is a is the first time in a while that I've been done with an episode I've never been more into an episode I could record

another hour easy good great number five is a Nick Cassavetes joint my other sister

say it again it's not that one my sister's sister my sister's keeper there we go a weepy with Cameron Diaz I get all those sister movies It's not that one. My sister's sister. My sister's... Keeper. There we go. A Weepy with Cameron Diaz. I get all those sister movies.

Abigail Breslin. Yes. This fucking movie. Isn't it based on the Jodi Picoult book or something? I believe it is. I think Alec Baldwin's in it? I believe she plays the doctor. Sort of in this early revival.

It's like cancer and organ donation. It's not. And there's another... Yeah, I saw it eight times. There's another sister too that I think Dakota Fanning was supposed to play and then she quit

because she wouldn't shave her head. There's like a story behind that movie where it was like Dakota Fanning is not committed enough as an actress

to shave her head and then whoever they got shaved her head and then it didn't help her career. No. It opened to $12 million. Other movies

you got Year One. Big hit. Yeah, boy. Caveman comedy with Michael Cera and Jack Black. Harold Ramis' other movies you got Year One big hit yeah boy Caveman comedy with Michael Cera and Jack Black Harold Ramis' final film

Harold Ramis' last film unfortunately Taken to Pelham 1, 2, 3 remake which is sort of a soft little hit that summer people thought it was

going to be bigger yeah sure Star Trek which is great big hit oh wow Night at the Museum Battle of the Smithsonian

which obviously went on to win Best Picture that year. Best Smithsonian Picture, obviously. Right. The first movie by a monkey to win Best Picture. Away We Go, Land of the Lost. There were some real stinkers. Angels and Demons, Terminator Salvation. This is like a lot of stinkers.

I'll say this. This was right around the time when they announced the 10 Best Picture thing. Because this was the first year of that. This was the year post Dark Knight where they're like uh oh. And I remember everyone saying like looking at the box office at that weekend and going like so what gets in now? Does Up get in? Is Pixar going to get in now? Is Star Trek going to get in?

Like they were like they've done this to add in more blockbusters. Star Trek came close for sure. I think District 9 if District 9 hadn't gotten in Star Trek would have gotten in and then Avatar 2 having two big sci-fi movies that year

fucked over Star Trek otherwise I think it would have gotten the nod quite possibly so yeah The Hurt Locker it grosses 17 total

yeah that's it not great it's out of theaters by like October you know but it did linger around for a while

and I did go to see it this is what I'm still obviously a huge movie fan but I'm not writing about movies and I am sort of like more just like I just go see things. And yeah, someone was just like it's so fucking good.

Like it's like the best action movie I've seen in years. And I was like, okay. Summit didn't know how to sell it. It's interesting because I would never call it an action movie. I called it that. No, but it is.

It is. It's an action movie. Yeah, it's all set pieces. No, no, no. It's just I would never think to. No, right. Because you think of an action movie as being less static. It's an action movie. It's all set pieces. It's just I would never think to. Because you think of an action movie as being less static. It's a very static movie. And it's.

This is not a fun movie. But it's like. It's a really effective visceral action movie. And then it wins six Academy Awards. Can you name the six? It wins Best Picture. It wins Best Director. It wins Best Screenplay.

It wins Best Editing. It wins both the sound awards yes it doesn't win cinematography music cinematography loses to Avatar which is kind of weird

yeah well neither of them should have won but yeah I think watching this movie a second time I was very taken back by the cinematography

I've never been the biggest Barry Aykroyd fan but he does this is like his best I agree I think this is the best example of this type of shooting. What do you think should have won?

I just wanted to double check the cinematography nominees but yeah the other any of the other three nominees would be my picks. Did Deacon get in there? Deacon

is not in there. You've got Robert Richardson for Inglourious Bastards. You've got Bruno Del Bonel for the aforementioned Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince which is one of the most gorgeous movies

that are made of recent times. That's an aesthetic feast. Not ever which is one of the most gorgeous movies ever made of recent times. That's an aesthetic feast. Not ever made. One of the most gorgeous movies ever around them. And that's when Yates figured out his aesthetic for that franchise because the one before that whatever it is is kind of whatever looking.

Five is a mess. Some people like that one. And then Christian Berger who shot The White Ribbon which is like a great cinematography nomination. That would have been my win. That's actually one of the best looking movies I've ever seen. So wonderful. So anyway, there you go.

Interesting. Renner would have been my best actor that year. I mean, Bridges won because he was a legacy. But say this, okay? If Bridges had lost this year because they felt like this was our year to honor Bridges, if Bridges had lost and they had given it to either Renner,

who I think should have won, or Firth, who I think is excellent in single man. Who wins the next year. Right, right. Okay, so what happens? If they'd given Firth

this year for single man and then waited next year and gave Bridges best actor for True Grit, I think those are better performances from each guy. I kind of wish

they Freaky Friday. Here's what I think happens. What's Bridges nominated for this time? Crazy Heart He's not even bad in it But he tops it next year Next year he's in a better movie giving a better version If Ruth wins in 2009 I think he still wins in 10

I think they go to Bridges Remember how much Bridges drum banging It's the best, I love Jeff Bridges people love the King's Speech but Jeff Bridges' performance in True Grit

is truly weird which I love about it I agree but Jeff Bridges' performance in Crazy Hearts is a real Oscar picture where he's like I'm so drunk

I'm a fuck up now I'm gonna sing a song with Carl Farrell but in True Grit he wears long underwear I know he's great he loves to pull the cord. You are not the Biff.

Yeah. He's still good in that. You are not the Biff. What was Jeff Bridges nominated for before? Thunderbolt and Lightfoot. Last Picture Show. Starman. Last Picture Show.

And The Contender. Okay. I don't think he was nominated for The Fabulous Baker Boys, which is one of his best performances. He wasn't nominated for Fearless, right? No. Rosie Perez was. What were you going to ask? I'm afraid I'm going to say something wrong.

No, it's fine. Say it. No. Say it. No, I'm going to look at my phone instead. What? What? What?

We got them all. We got them all. This is safe space. But what? Was the one you were thinking? Are you worried that Jeff Bridges wasn't in the movie you're going to say? What is it? No, I'm not saying it out loud.

Give me a second. Surf's up? Yeah, okay. I was going to ask about the Big Lebowski, and then I got really stressed out. I was like, do I not know who's The Big Lebowski? He should have been, but that movie was sort of a flop when it came out, and the Oscars ignored it. You're going to get flamed for this episode.

God damn it. Anyway, so. They're going to call you Boston Market because you're about to get flame roasted. I'm like really hungry. Yeah, we're done. Okay, cool. Food's cool. Okay.

This episode's like four hours long great I had so much fun I did too I had a great time I had a great time I did I genuinely did

Sonny thank you so much for being on the show thank you guys so much for having me it was really fun and this was a really fun movie to talk about people should read Variety

that's the best source to find out who's ankle in Project oh my god which skeins are hitting the skeins skeins you don't have to say skein

Baphobia I do not have to say skein. Paphobio. I do not have to say skein anymore. I think that that like, that's all gone. That ethos has faded. Do you ever say ankle though? No, I don't really know what it means.

I think it's a great, like, like David is furious and wants to ankle this recording studio immediately. Does that mean take it out at the ankle? Get out of. Oh,

oh, they would always say that when someone like quits a movie, they the ankle? Get out of. Oh. They would always say that when someone like quits a movie they go like it's weird. Yeah. Brad Pitt has

ankled the fountain. That's Rushfield's new thing it's called the ankler. I wonder if that's like I think it probably is. It's like a reference. People should follow you

on Twitter. Yeah I like having an okay Twitter sometimes. I think it's a good Twitter. And you also I'll say this in my six weeks of doing my press tour which which I did not love,

you were like the bright spot. Great interview. The end of this New York day, this press day, when I had to do all these like five minute capsule interviews that were just like melting my brain, I got to end the day with you. And the PR person came in after like 15 minutes and was like, I think Griffin has to go. And I was like. And you were like, no, I want to talk more. And she was like, oh, I thought you'd probably just want to go to sleep. And I was like and you were like no I want to talk more and she was like oh I thought you'd probably

just want to go sleep and I'm like I do but I want to actually get complicated thoughts out and we had this like fucking great conversation it was great that I think you wrote up

really well and I even like the way you contextualize it is like two friends talking about like I can't believe we're in these positions right now we're talking in this situation

it was the best I'm weirdly like almost as proud of that interview as I am of my work on the show oh my god that's such a kissing to say

great job in the interview no I truly because I felt like that was like the conversation where I got to encapsulate everything I was believing in

and you definitely got to say things in your own voice because I feel like that's part of it too is like of course when you're thinking about being an actor

you're thinking about how like every other person who's been in a superhero film of some kind has somehow framed their performance. It was just great to hear all that from you. I'll say this too.

Almost every other review I did, people misquoted me in one way or another. I think because I mumble and I talk fast and stuff and they just kept on using words that didn't make sense and completely decimated the logic of whatever sentence I was saying. Oh no. And you're the one person, I think because you know me well enough to be like... Maybe I just understood your sentences. that didn't make sense and like completely decimated the logic of whatever sentence I was saying oh no

and you're the one person I think because you know me well enough to be like maybe I just understood your sentences right yeah because I read these other

things where people were like they clearly just thought I was talking gibberish but thank you for that oh my god thank you for doing it it was a real pleasure thank you for being on the show

we'll have you on again sooner oh my god no it was great to be here and if you guys do end up talking about I don't know the Harry Potter films. We'll have you back.

Alfonso Cuaron. We'll do our David Yates miniseries. We'll talk one day. Yeah. All right well bye blankies. Thanks for having me.

Oh god they're gonna love that. That you address them by name. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe.

Go to blankies.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit. Nerdy shit. Thank you to Andrew for our social media. Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds for our artwork.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit. Nerdy shit. Thank you to Andrew Guto for our social media, Joe Bowen and Pat Reynolds

for our artwork, Lean, Montgomery, for our theme song, and as always, as always, lock the gates. Here we go.