Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Kingdom of Dreams and Madness

Episode Date: November 7, 2019

On a special b-b-b-b-bonus episode, Griffin and David review the 2013 documentary that offers a rare look into the behind-the-scenes of Studio Ghibli. They also discuss Dilbert, HBO Max acquiring the exclusive streaming rights of the Studio Ghibli library and offer up their rankings of Miyazaki's filmography.

The notion that one's goal in life is to be happy, that your own happiness is the goal? I just don't podcast. He's just dropping pearls throughout. There should probably be, by law, a documentary crew following him at all times. Just to catch any pearls. Yeah, I queued up the movie on my iPad because there are a couple things I want to read straight from this. Yeah, you should. This thing is devastating.

It's incredible. Here's a question that struck me while watching this last night. Yeah. Is Miyazaki the director we've covered who would hate this podcast the most? I'm just sort of going through to triple check that absolutely of course you're right. I mean there's no Ian. I don't think man would be too impressed.

But he was nice to the one Heat Minute boys. He was. So he's clearly some appreciation for you know the new world of podcasting. That is true. I feel like George Lucas wouldn't like hearing the Star Wars episodes no but I think he might appreciate

that we're trying to grapple with his prequel characters and works at least you know somewhat sincerely I don't think so I think he would say they're kitsch movies you're not supposed to take them seriously I think he would love he was on the show

and he didn't like it he was on it twice two time guest I think Verho love. I don't know why. He was on the show. Oh, you're right. He was on the show. And he didn't like it. Yeah. He was on it twice. Two-time guest. I think Verhoeven would be tickled. Oh, most certainly. I think, yeah. I think, yeah.

No, there's no question. Shyamalan, I think, would love it. I think it would be an emotional rollercoaster for him, as most things seem to be. Right? He seems, he lives on the surface. His feelings are on the surface. So he'd really, he'd be with us in the praise and he'd really be devastated

by the criticism, right? He's sort of a rollercoaster guy. I feel like we can say this now that it's been almost a year, but we were like in the preliminary stages of getting to sit down to talk with him. One day. But I can say this. I know. For Glass this year,

we had like a two monthmonth long email back and forth. Yeah. That we thought it was looking like there was a good chance. At least they didn't just ignore us. They were talking to us. It was a concept. It was a concept. They were intrigued by the concept.

It was a concept. But he's going to make more movies. I believe he just signed. Didn't he just sign a deal to make at least two, right? Really? Yeah, he's got an Apple show, which those seem infallible. Apple TV Plus? He signed a new deal, yes, with Universal Pictures.

Which is a well-known movie studio. Yes. He signed a deal with Universal Pictures to mortgage his house two more times. Right. Is it just a distribution deal? Just movies to come out Feb 2021 and Feb 2023. Nice. I do think it's...

I do think the structure is as it was for his other... He's got to bet the farm. No. Yes, yeah, yes. He will finance his two movies the same way. Fucking rad. Yeah, I mean, I think every other director we've covered on the show might get a little sensitive at certain parts.

Certainly. But would generally not be as philosophically opposed to this endeavor as Miyazaki. Sure. It's such a weird thing like an hour into this movie when he makes a joke. Well, his version of a joke usually is that he says something sort of like cruel or devastating and then he sort of like chuckles. That's why there's like an hour in he makes like a pure joke. I'm trying to remember what it was, but it was something about like,

oh, you're going to throw your back out. Right, right, right. Like it was like a dad joke. I'm trying to remember what it was, but it was something about like oh, you're going to throw your back out. Right, right, right. Like it was like a dad joke. Right. It wasn't like him dropping the most like... When like edgelord comedians say like, look, I'm just telling the truth. People don't like it, but I'm just telling the truth.

You're saying Miyazaki's actually that. Miyazaki's like actually the one person telling the truth. Right? Look, we're here to discuss the Kingdom of Dreams and Madness. Of course. This is a documentary by Mami Tsunada. Mami Tsunada. About the production process of The Wind Rises.

We're closing the book on Howl's Moving Podcast. Correct. It's been a while since we talked Miyazaki, so you had to remember this miniseries name. We're like 50% through Demi and we took a step back into Miyazaki, which turns out it was to our benefit that we waited. Right, yeah. Because the landscape's fucking changed and we're going to get into it. New landscape. I mean, probably changed in really magical and mystical ways that are really beautiful to consider, right? Or streaming culture is just digesting us all.

It's just the new way that people watch things. And that's just how it is. Where everyone's like, I think what HBO Max is going for is this. And I'm like, I think what HBO Max is going for is that it will be one of the major networks because that's what network TV is going to be.

It'll be like the big streaming network. That's what they're going for. Everyone just needs to have one now. You know what's fascinating to me? I know we're shooting 17 different directions here, but all these things are on subject. I'm just dropping contradictory, not

contradictory, but I'm shooting bullets in opposite directions all on this theme. Miyazaki, a little more difficult to watch these films than most in that you have to buy the physical things or

you need a disc or maybe you go to the movies or sure right right go to a library the digital rental is the big thing you're lacking with Miyazaki

right up until 2020 because I'll pay four bucks to watch a movie well this is the thing I have found that now and we've been doing this show for almost five years now.

This is such a cultural shift. Now, if we cover a movie that is not free, quote unquote, streaming available on a platform, and it requires a $3 rental, people go, oh, this movie is like impossible to find. Right? It's like easier than ever when i was a kid you had to go to the dang totally video store maybe they didn't even have it but you know what i'm saying like you're saying kids today kids today you're putting on an apron and you're grumbling about how people bow full awareness that some of the kids are people in their 40s

who listen to this show. But I understand it. It's like we're conditioned at this point. I use the Apple TV app, right? So do I. I know what you're talking about where you can sort of say into the remote essentially like, well, you don't like to say it. I'm not that fancy. I'm not talking to no robots.

I'm typing it in. But I'll just like take my remote and I'll just be like, Fancy Sims. Name a movie. Talk like Sims. Name a movie. Just pick a movie, right? Scooby-Doo 2 Monsters Unleashed.

Scooby-Doo 2 Monsters Unleashed. And it will go like, it's available right now on Starz. And I like subscribe to Starz so I can watch it. Well, I'm a man of words. I like to read that text as it shows up on screen. But yes, it will tell you that, right? It'll like, it sort of collates all the subscriptions you might have, and it finds the... And then once in a while, you want to watch

Scooby-Doo Two Monsters Unleashed, and no one's got it. So it says rent for $3.99, and I'm like, well, I could do that, or I could just watch one of the 40 million other movies that I could just watch in a second right now. And so maybe then, that's sort of part of it, right? People are just like, well, there's other options. And even sometimes it will

say, like, you know, a subscription you haven't necessarily signed up for. It'll just be like, just so you know, this is on Cinemax. Right, you can get it on Magnolia Select. Right. Do I do a one week free trial? You know,

whatever it is. But yes, I mean, this guy has been the one major outlier where it's like... HM. HM. Miyazaki-san. Hayao Miyazaki. Miyazaki-san.

Miyazaki-san, where he's just like, don't want it on digital at all. It flattens the movies out. I want to control the context in which these films are seen. Right. I want them to retain their specialness. Because you're never going to be able to say to Netflix or an HBO Max, like, hey, we'll give you the rights, but only if the movies can only be watched at a home theater experience. Right. Because I think part of what distresses you is like, what if kids are watching it on their tiny little phone?

What if they're not even playing the sound? Right. Things like that. God forbid Netflix 4X speed. Yeah, what if they're watching it at 4X? Right, any of those things. Not 4DX. I mean, he would love 4DX.

If Miyazaki loved one thing, finally, the smells I dreamed of. Oh, boy. The back punches I had always imagined in my heart. I'm very curious. We were talking about this the other day, but of course, this is Blank Check it's a podcast about filmographies

directors of mass success early on they're giving a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby and we're closing the book

on Miyazaki the big leather bound book that paid off brilliantly in our final episode well you never really let me in on that bit I will say you kind of set it up without...

We never discussed a closing moment. You know, Chip Smith will be back. It's called improv, my friend. Yeah, right. Well, you're only one of us who's a trained improviser. Well, that's interesting. Well, two, right? Thank you!

Are you a trained improviser? You took a class. I took some classes. Yeah. I did some improv. I think that counts as trained I'll take it I'm more actually responding

because I had cut all that out good call you cut all of that out? yeah it wasn't very good no it wasn't good should I keep it in? no keep it cut out

keep it out and double cut it so then here's some real keep it out and have it? would that be the reverse? here's some real keep it out and have it would that be the reverse here's here's some real bonus content we did a bad chip smith fit and it's gone you'll never hear it you'll never hear it salute bad chip smith it's not even like paywall stuff it's just like not good yeah what if we just put it on the paywall and their patron numbers just collapsed. Collapsed. Woo! Whatever, it's cool.

Yeah, everything's good. So this is the thing you and I were talking about. Yeah. I would not be surprised if a sort of condition of the deal with HBO Max was that they have their own sort of... A vertical, essentially, right? Like a section within the site? A vertical.

That it's sort of like... I don't know. What's the word I'm looking for? Cloistered? Not even that, but that he has some ability to sort of frame the films, contextualize the films,

put them in their own little section. Sure. You know? Right. It's not just like Spirited Away is next to Snow Dogs in the 80s. It's his own silo. Right. You know? Right. It's not just like Spirited Away is next to Snow Dogs in the It's on a silo.

Right. A silo. Sure. Right. Now if you're Noah Jupe don't get in that silo. You might drown in corn. Okay.

It's a reference to A Quiet Place. Yes. Just thought I'd do that. Noah Jupe. Noah Jupe. Isn't that his name? Yeah.

It's quite a pull though. Jupe. He's everywhere. What else is he in? Jupe Jupe? Am I not thinking? He's, that's quite a pull, though. Jupe. He's everywhere. What else is he in? Jupe Jupe? Am I not thinking? He's in Honey Boy this year, which is sort of his breakout. Oh, and he's in the corn silo, of course.

But no, he was in Suburbicon. I feel like he was in one other thing. He's sort of... I didn't realize that it was the same kid. Well, this is the new kid. You know, this is kind of like... He's the new kid. You know, like, yeah.

Wonder, apparently. I haven't seen Wonder. Apparently he's in Wonder. Oh, and he's in Ford vs. Ferrari as well. He plays Christian Bale's plucky young son. You know that movie where Christian Bale jumps on a child's shoulders and goes vroom vroom? Can I do a joke about Ford vs. Ferrari

which is not going to be... It's going to be coming out right around at this point. You know, it has, it's a movie that I like things about and I think is pretty fun to watch, but it's sort of like not quite, you know, great, great. And one of the problems is it has this wife character played by Katrina Balfe from Outlander.

Very good actor. She's Christian Bale's wife, and it's a lot of like, you know, like, you know, one of those very thankless characters that you really hoped we were done with at this point, his wife and it's a lot of like you know like you know one of those very thankless characters that you really hoped we were done with at this point even in a period of time to watch her husband get in a fist fight

I think it would be funny to do a movie like that a biopic where you've got like Damon and Bale right where the wife is both of them have wives played by the same actor they have the same name and they perform the same function and no one addresses it where basically they just both are married to the same woman.

Yeah. But it's not. It's not like, it's just like, where the movie just doesn't even bother. It literally like clips the wife into both scenes. I've talked about this, but the Untouchables.

The Untouchables. Where Patricia Clarkson plays the wife of Elliot Ness. Sure, right. Who has a pretty substantial role. Sure. Maybe the largest role outside of The Untouchables themselves and Ness. Right.

A lot of screen time. Phenomenal actress. Right. Is credited in the final film as Ness's wife. Oh, boy. Is never given a character name. Despite the fact that movie is based on a real person. Yeah.

And they could have just looked up what was Elliot. They could have grabbed their little Siri remote like Blue Blood Sims. Blue Bloods but like no I don't want to

compare myself to the show you were in either. I do think I just think I think it's fucked up and the Untouchables didn't acknowledge that like the realness had a yo-yo and a backwards baseball cap and a stripy shirt.

I mean an incredible joke. And I'm too tired to laugh. I didn't sleep at all last night but inside I am guffawing. I am deeply amused. I'm very happy about it. It's one of those jokes that one is silly and funny and two also you can

just imagine the joke like you just imagine Ness in the. And two, also, you can just imagine the joke. Like you just imagine Ness in the movie. Kevin Costner dressed like that. And you can have a little laugh. Hi-ya. I can't do it, Costner. Kevin fucking Costner. Kevin fucking Costner.

Hayao Miyazaki. Kingdom of Dreams and Madness. I just wanted to say it. We're talking about he's, you know, he's a truth teller. You know, he pushes boundaries. Sometimes he misses. Sometimes he misses. Except he never,

he actually never, he's never missed in his entire life. No, but in this movie, it's about him. It's following his creative process on this film. And yes, it's sort of,

and then at the same time, everyone in the movie at the same time, it's our Takahata is making the tale of the princess Kaguya, which was supposed to come out exact same, the exact same time. Yeah. But it was so massively delayed it came out 18 months later. Well, he's almost like the Godot.

Well, that's right. And everyone is like, you know, Miyazaki, yeah, sure, he'll bust your balls, but Takahata, Jesus Christ, that guy scares the shit out of me. Anytime anyone brings him up, they're like, oh, Pakusan, I don't know what to say. He's this nightmare figure

looming over things. At the end of the movie, he pops in for one second and he's just like, I think what's good about Hayao Miyazaki is he makes good films. That's all they get out of him. It's just wild stuff. This whole thing is wild. Yes. To go back to this truth teller thing, right?

Yeah. It never feels like he is trying to be provocative. No. It just feels like at any given moment he takes a deep breath and consumes his surroundings and then just

perfectly eloquently but cuttingly lays you out. Analyzes the situation. But it's like if it's like your grandpa who has no

Sometimes it's the world sometimes it's a room. He lays the world out. Right. Sometimes it's about Ghibli. Yeah. It's just the name he got from an airplane. It's like your grandpa who has no... Sometimes it's the world. Sometimes it's a room. He lays the world out. Right. Sometimes it's about Ghibli. Yeah. It's just a name he got from an airplane. It's about himself.

Like, that's the thing is that he feels so kind of clear about everything around him. And this documentary is so much about the purity of his process, and it does feel like, right, there is like a weird purity to all the things you're describing. Yes. But he's like your grandpa who has no filter, except instead of just like saying some sort of like vaguely offensive thing. He's correct. He's correct.

Exactly. You're like someone like this shouldn't exist who is just this consistently correct about everything. He's always got his apron on. That's incredible. What a king. The apron-wearing king. And that he owns the company.

I know. But it's about the work it's about the process there's this that very early scene where they're having the producer Suzuki who obviously like

runs shit right is an incredible character incredible and like just has the burden of these you know insane artists to carry with him

and he's having like a production meeting he's having like a merchandise I forget what it's a merchandise yeah and they're talking it's a merchandise spotlight

and then you see Miyazaki like walk by and sort of go like sort of waves his hands and then walks on. It's like he's never going to walk into that. He doesn't want to be in that meeting. Right. Ever.

Right. Even though he's nominally like the founder. He understands that that pays the bills. Right. But it is crazy. You mentioned the apron. Love that apron. He's literally wearing it.

Yeah. Every single moment. His routine as shown in this film is he wakes up in his nice but not gigantic, nice sized house. That was the thing I had always heard about why he was never going to make a streaming deal was like no amount of money matters to him. He has

a nice house. He's got a nice house. That's it. But like the key word was nice. Not like he already owns a mansion. It was like he has a modest home that he enjoys. It seems like his was nice. Not like he already owns a mansion. It was like he has a modest home that he enjoys. It seems like his home, which seems like a very nice place, is valued partly because he can get up. He can walk to Ghibli wearing his apron. He can walk by the nursery where the staffer's kids are being nurseried and he can wave to them. And he can go to his desk and he can draw pictures of airplanes

and, you know, think about life. Doesn't he say he has a massage brush that is part of his routine? And we never see it. He outlines his whole day. It's very simple. And his day is so simple that massage brush gets above the title billing. You never see him eat, right? I'm trying to think.

I mean, there's the they're famous spirited away dvd extra where he makes ramen for everyone yeah i feel like i don't think you see me cook at home do you i guess one time you do yeah i don't know if you see him eat it's like you know the pizza guy dominic de marco one of the legend in my opinion the greatest new yorker alive um it's a really good argument. I think it was New York. One of those places used to have one of those sort of 20 questions where the questions are always the same. And one of them was like, who's the best New Yorker?

And I was like, if they ever ask me, it's Dom DeMarco. I think that's a great choice. And he's old and he spends all day making pizzas in his rat infested, beautiful, wonderful pizza place. And then like apparently for dinner, he has like a slice of pizza and a glass of wine. Yeah. I feel like that's, that's what you want to strive for. Are we being an old guy where you're like, I don't need much anymore.

I kind of know what you're talking about. Remind me. And for any of the listeners who don't know who you're talking about, he runs a DeFarra pizza. It's a famous, yeah, he is kind of the American Miyazaki. Sure.

Right. It's like simplicity. I was watching this. I was trying to think like who else is like this in their field? So just to clarify, you're right, for listeners who wouldn't know it's like a place in Brooklyn, deep in Brooklyn,

it's been around forever, it's been around since the 70s. It's this guy Dom DeMarco. It's on like the Avenue Q stop on the X train. It's on the Avenue J stop on the Q train. Okay, but that's a funny joke. It was a funny joke. Thank you. And he like, you know, it looks like just

a regular old slice joint. He's had it for like 60 years? Since the early 70s I think. So, you know, 50-ish years. And he makes pizzas. He's the only one. Although now I think he's old enough that now I think his kids do now assist. Yes. Because it used to just be him and his kids would just take the orders.

For a very long time, like up until five years ago, he did literally everything. He's got these hands that are like oven mitts because they have this incredibly hot oven, which he says is like the secret to his success. And he's just pulling them out with his hands. He pulls them out with his bare hands. Every pizza pie. He made every one himself. He ordered the ingredients himself. He's got the with his bare hands. Every pizza pie. He made every one himself. He ordered the ingredients himself.

He's got basil in the window. It used to be like, you know, they'd make like one or two sliced pies a day. And so however many slices come out of that pie, that's the single slices they sell. And otherwise, you've got to buy a full pie. It's quite expensive. It always has been, quote unquote, overpriced. But it quite expensive. It always has been quote unquote overpriced, but it's great. It is truly the single best thing I've ever tasted.

It's a fun experience too, even though you usually have to wait a while and that's sort of part of the whole process. Very often there's a line around the block. And you're watching this old man. There's not that much seating. I think he's in his 80s at this point. I think he's late 80s.

And he's shuffling around. I mean the square pie as well, if you ever want to. Bowtie and cradle. So good. And then when the pizza's almost done, he's shuffling around. I mean, the square pie as well, if you ever want to. Bowtongue cradle. So good. Yeah. And then when the pizza's almost done, he'll kind of look up at you

and be like, pizza. And you're like, yeah. And he takes out the basil and he snips it sort of roughly. With scissors. With scissors to sort of finish it off. Yeah, anyway.

So yeah, and he always has an apron, much like Mia's son. He used to work seven days a week. Yeah. He then started taking one day off. I. He used to work seven days a week. Yeah. He then started taking one day off. I think it's open like five days a week at this point. It's closed like Monday, Tuesday.

I mean, I think his son-in-law sort of followed him. A couple of his kids have followed him. He has other people working now off of his recipe. They franchised, so now they have a couple other locations. It's still an incredible recipe. But there was something to the fact that it was this one guy for about 50 years

made every single pie himself, almost never took a day off. I mean, literally you could count on two hands the times he had taken days off within decades. And he said that every night

he gets a slice of pizza Within decades. And he said that every night. He gets a slice of pizza and a glass of wine for dinner. He makes himself one last pie for the day. And then he has some pizza and a glass of wine to make sure that it's still good. And he has told himself the moment the pie has dipped in quality is the moment he retires. It reminds me of kind of how Bourdain always talked about street food vendors as well. People who have spent 20, 30, 40 years making one

dish and perfecting. That's his thing. 100%. It's like this guy perfected pizza and that's his only goal is to perfect pizza and he is sort of very reluctantly by his children been pulled into the 21st century, where they're like, you're going to die at some point.

I mean, I'm sure they're not praising it to him that way, unless they are Miyazaki-esque. But they're sort of like, we need to create a future for this because we don't want your legacy and your reputation and your recipe to die with you. There's now these sort of franchise locations. There's a couple of them. I think there's one in Vegas.

They're not as good. There's another one. I mean, they're still excellent. They're not as good. There's another one. I mean, they're still excellent. They're pretty good. You're like, this is a great recipe for pizza versus this being the best thing I've ever put in my mouth. He tried to open or they tried. Someone tried to open a sandwich shop once that was around the corner. Yeah.

It was pretty good, but it didn't make it. They owned like the other. They owned like the next door. Yeah. Anyway, Miyazaki. It is that thing though and he is like very famously a man of few words. He's like, I just make the pizza.

Right, right. You know? And Miyazaki has that same sort of like put on the apron, sit at my desk. It's kind of incredible how it's just like a little David's miming Miyazaki hunched over etching, drawing, scribbling. But he's just got a little desk in miming Miyazaki hunched over etching drawing scribbling but he's just got a

little desk in the corner of the room he's got no executive office not that I expected that he would have some big like fucking Roman Roy yeah he's in the bullpen with the other animators yeah and everyone's sort of like afraid of him but he's there working as hard as anybody

very noticeably mostly women. Yes. Yes. I would say. Yeah. Yeah. There's this sort of sidekick slash, I guess is one of the lead animators is sitting next to him. Yes.

And early on he like gives her what I imagine is like the highest praise you could ever receive where he's like, she's a good animator or something like that. Right? You remember that? She's his favorite. What's her name? It's so, her name is something like that. Right? You remember that? She's his favorite. What's her name? Her name is so perfect, too. I don't remember. But yes, he keeps on talking about how fond he is of her.

And he presided over her wedding. Right. And you find out at the end, in somewhat of a twist, that she's three months pregnant. Yes. And she has told everyone else. Right. Suzuki is like, yeah, she didn't want to tell you until it was done. I'm the last to know.

Yeah, right. And mostly the film is just about them finishing The Wind Rises. Right. There's no dramatic problems. No. This isn't like the great, of course, film Ghosts of the Abyss in which they find out the 9-11 happens halfway through or anything like that. What a wild movie. It's a wild-ass

movie. We should go back and watch Ghosts of the Abyss again. Do a director's commentary. Yeah. I believe Alien to the Deep is going to be on Disney+, so... Really? But not Ghosts of the Abyss? I think Ghosts of the Abyss might not be Disney. It might be Paramount. I think it's Disney. Well, but it's... But it was...

I think they're both Disney because I remember there being a combo 3D Blu-ray set. So I don't know. Which I'm realizing I should own. I don't know. I don't know. Disney was kind of the only studio doing 3D at that moment. Right. So anyway, there's nothing like that.

The most dramatic plot moment, I would say. Yeah. I just want to clarify. Yes, there's nothing like that. The most dramatic plot moment, I would say. Yeah, I just want to clarify. Yes, there's nothing like that. 9-11 does not happen in this movie that is set in 2010. You hear that radio address from the Japanese prime minister of the time where he's talking about the aftermath of the Fukushima disaster. So there are things in the air that are clearly sort of like on their minds. And because they're making the wind rises

they will occasionally discuss like the war and the morality of this person that they're making a movie about things like that right yeah but then the i would say the most dramatic moment is that miyazaki gets a letter from a neighbor of his when he was a young child during the second world war when he was taken in by another family when he was evacuated right and this man who is older than miyazaki so probably in his late 70s is like his name is jojo rabbit is relating a story of like we were bombed and my house was burned down and we went to your house and no one was there and we were sitting there and then your dad came and gave us chocolate and I remember this very fondly and I wish to like tell you of this.

And Miyazaki is like just staggered by this letter and keeps thinking about it and discussing it and like wonders how to respond to it. That's the big dramatic thing in this movie. And at the end he responds to the letter but he can't even bear to read it himself so the director of the documentary

reads it. Correct. And like I just I feel like people in people making a similar kind of movie about a director might find that to be like that's a little inconsequent like we don't need that right

let's not put that in the movie whereas Sonata is like this will be this will be the sort of moral centerpiece of the film. Well, I also relate because I take years to respond to emails because of self-inflicted pressure to make it perfect. But it is that thing of just like he has, in a way, narrowed his life to the essentials. Yes, 100%. Of the things that are fulfilling to him. Yes.

He feels either gives value to the world or gives him value. He is married, but you don't see his wife. Is his wife not the woman at the end? I think so. I mean, that is a sliver of, you see her right for a second. And there's a scene where they're reading the newspaper. Oh, yeah, that's right. But you barely see her. She speaks in that scene. Because there's that scene right at the end, Oh yeah, that's right. All right. But you barely see her. You barely see her.

She speaks in that scene. Cause there's that scene right at the end. Yes. Where he's like, she, she was like, when's it going to be done? Like,

you know, he's like joking about it. She appears a little bit at the end. At one point, the filmmaker asked him like, so how did you know your wife was the one? And he was like, what do you mean?

This is such a weird part. What made you realize that you want to be with her? And he was like, I married her because that is what you do it had to be done and then she asked some follow up question he's like that's the secret of life I can't reveal it or like he

just doesn't have an answer this is the thing you do you marry someone it feels like it's too personal a question for me exactly there's just some sort of like wall but in the slivers you see of the two of them together they seem very happy and warm together it's not like this is some weird marriage of 50 years like you'd yeah 100 well there are people who are married for 50 years that's true and they live separate lives and all that yeah no i know but

you know and also he when rise is a very warm movie about a marriage in a way too so yes um i don't know. Maybe he's. You also see his son. I'm saying they're not the Lockhorns. No, they're not the Lockhorns. I mean, you know, they're not as funny as the Lockhorns, if that's what you mean. Do you know that when I was little, there's no reason you would know this.

When I was little, I used to think the Lockhorns was called the comics. Okay. Because why? Because it was like. I don't know. Was it at the top of your funny pages and it said like comics like and the lockhorns maybe i mean remember the lockhorns no it's one of those great comics you know the funny pages it'd be a one panel like it's usually a one panel it's a

square you got um you got this man mr lockhorn yeah and this lady mrs lockhorn they're married to each other and they both think that the other one sucks shit i guess i kind of remember this they fucking hate it it's like basically she's like i made you dinner and he's like well fuck you yeah i want a divorce like that's that's sort of the humor level this was before i could read and the when the newspaper would arrive i would tell my father can you read me the comics right and he would know that means i have to read aloud a lockhorn well you don't have to read a lot so would he just make it up? No, because to me that was the comics. Oh, you

just wanted the lockhorns? And then after that I'd be like, let me read these other things. But the comics to me meant the lockhorns. That is really weird. And he would read it to me and I would go, I don't get it. It wasn't like I loved the lockhorns. I'd be like, what's the joke there? And then I'd read Peanuts and I'd be

like, this shit rules. Why isn't this the comics? I was a Farsight guy. Farsight rules. That makes so much sense. I'm mentioning Farsight because what do you guys think about the new apparent, like apparently there's a new Farsight. Is it going to happen or is that confirmed or not? I mean, I just sort of saw a lot of stuff on social media.

There's certainly a lot of business around the Farsight again, but then it seemed like it's just that he digitized it and made a website. Well. Is there new stuff going to happen? How the website was updated with a new online era of the Farsight has come. I think the era is just Farsight has been added to HBO Max. I don't know. We'll see. We'll find out. Anyway, I mean generally into it, one of those

things where I'm like, does his sense of humor and perspective belong where it was? Like, I love that stuff, but do I need him talking about now? But maybe I do. I always loved the Farsight. He also, he falls in that weird category too of him and why am I

freaking his name now? Calvin and Hobbes. Sure. Uh, where they both. Jim something. It's not Jim. Okay, great. I want to say Roger, but it's not. Um. Everyone's yelling at me right now. Everyone's listening to this podcast and screaming.

Like writer Calvin and Hobbes. Bill Watterson. Oh, Bill Watterson. Jesus Christ. I'm sorry. I wasn't listening. Yeah, clearly. I wasn't interested in what you were saying. That is something. I got an email popped up.

Anyway, go on. Yeah. Anything good? I gotta tell you, pretty regular. Those two guys have a weird sort of integrity that is usually lacking in American art where they were just like, I'm done. Yeah. Most of the funny pages, they just run forever. And, you know, your cute comic about like life in an office for a Gen Xer and a cubicle culture will turn into some weird like Trump screed about being an alpha male or whatever.

David, it's such a good strip. Look, when I was a kid I loved Dilbert. It makes so much sense that he has such an air of superiority because the strip is so It's a cornerstone of American humor. I haven't been following what's been going on with Dilbert. You're saying he's like

Republican now? Republican would be a kind and gentle way to describe whatever happened to him. No, he turned into a weird kind of testosterone red pill guy. Right. Like, I don't know. You know, and kind of one of those like kings of like debate me, bro. Twitter attitudes. Right.

Right. Just all the time. He's like, well, I'm intellectually superior to you. And like, here's how I prove it. Also, I have big muscles. That's his big thing that he's like jacked and 60, and he's smarter than everybody, and he knows better because he made Dilbert. Anyway.

Isn't there a rumor that his house is in the shape of Dilbert's head? There is a house in the shape of Dilbert's head? That his house is in the shape of Dilbert's head? That his house is in the shape of Dilbert's head. Okay. I think it's maybe true. If it's not true, I want it to be true. Because I like this idea of this guy living in a cartoon head house. It may be funny.

Dilbert's got a good head. Intelligent be funny I'm clearly the most intelligent man alive yeah I mean his head kind of looks like a castle it's got little crenellations

right I think that's yes I always liked he's got the two blank eyes that look like portals Wally I don't know

I'm trying to remember other Dilbert characters Wally? Dogbert Catbert well Dogbert and Catbert and the boss of course the pointy haired boss

yeah who's the guy with the tie going up that's Dilbert Dilbert's the one with the tie going up? That's Dilbert. Dilbert's the one with the tie going up. Oh, then who's Wally? Wally's like the other one. He's got glasses. He's bald.

He's his co-worker. And then there's, I think, Alice, the one with the triangle. Remember the Larry Charles cartoon? Yeah, I kind of like the cartoon. I think that was funny in my memory. I think it was funny. Yeah, I mean, it was a long time ago now. I don't know.

Catbert. We said him already. Ratbert, I think. Jeez. I think it was fun. Yeah, I mean, it was a long time ago now. I don't know. Cat Burt. We said him already. Rat Burt, I think. Jeez. I think it was like a dinosaur. Oh, there was. Anyway, fuck Dilbert. I'm nodding.

Yeah, fuck Dilbert. Dilbert's a piece of shit. Dilbert's a cock. I don't know. Why are we talking about this in our Miyazaki episode? Well, because we were talking about... Think Miyazaki's ever read Dilbert? I think he does.

And he's like, he gets it. He has a unique insight into... The spiritual crisis suffered by Dilbert is one suffered by many a person in the 21st century. A day in the office eats at us all equally. He has that line very early on where he's like, I am not a 21st century person. Like, he's like, I'm a man of the 20th century.

I do not want to deal with the 21st century. But I also love how sort of... Dilbert, by the way. Dilbert says that. Yeah, so then his tie goes up into his face. I love how flummoxed he is by the 20th century, too. Like, he keeps on talking about the confusion his confusion around how japan acted in like different decades sure you know his parents generation like he's sort of

just so confounded by the totality of human behavior well it's one thing that's why right though the letter that becomes this weird central thing yeah right that's sort of him wrecking thinking about his own father. And he's like, well, me and my father used to fight about, you know, I would call him a war profiteer because he sold airplane parts. And so he's like,

he's kind of referring to a more radical past of his, right? Sure. You also see that image of him as a union guy. He was like part of the union when he worked at toe animation i think and so he sort of has this retro yeah you know oh yeah you know i am i was i was a little more jacked up back then but then also he's like but my father did this good thing and this is very interesting for me to consider like this sort of selfless thing my dad not only that but it's like

a moment of a very like intimate kindness that it seems like he did not experience with his own father very often. And because it was directed at another child, that's the kind of thing that makes you reevaluate. Like, why isn't my dad giving me chocolate? Not that it was just the chocolate. Although, chocolate sounded pretty tight. Chocolate's pretty good. I love a chocolate. Big fan.

And there's that. And then he has that there's that shot sometimes they'll insert shots from the wind rises where the guys has the two chocolate cakes yeah it's kind of incredible uh i i just still we recorded our wind rises episode 15 years ago right and you were having a goddamn meltdown during it what is life what is existence, I want to talk about that again. Well, because this thing reopened a lot of those wounds. But I was just sort of like so confounded by the fact that people thought this film was pro-war. Oh, sure. And he talks so explicitly in this movie.

There's that scene where he shows the storyboards to the producer, whose name I'm forgetting. Suzuki? Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, it's pretty strongly anti-war. Right. And Miyazaki's like, I know, I think I have to do it, though. And there's— Like, they're concerned that it's going to be too political. The later, very at the end scene where they're showing that he gave interviews

which he did at the time of like, Japan has a peace essentially written into its constitution. They're not allowed to declare war. Yeah. And he gave an interview where he was like, we must keep this because it's an ongoing debate in Japan. Maybe we should change our constitution, right?

And they're reading the new headlines where they're like, oh, this could hurt the film. But, you know, I think it was important. Sure. So, yeah, again. But it's one of those. Putting himself out there. Yeah, but it's one of those things where it's like, I don't understand if it's just that American audiences wanted a didactic explanation that Japan's collaboration with Germany was bad.

Right. Which the film is so clearly saying. I mean, the whole Werner Herzog character is like, you know, the one sort of good German who understands the evil of what's happening around him. And Miyazaki says it so clearly in this movie, which is just like, he just loves planes. And unfortunately... There's that moment, right, where he says, like,

they're just so cool, though. But he's sort of like, what a dramatic irony. That this man who has no interest in war... He loves planes. He loves a thing that ultimately will be used for war. Which is the thing he's interested in. And it's like, especially in a year with fucking Jojo Rabbit and A Hidden Life, you know, where it's like you got two movies that are about, and I haven't seen Hidden Life yet. It's good.

But two movies that are about like individual Germans. Sure. Who, you know, do not agree with their country's actions. Right. In the time of World War II. Right. Time of World War II. Right.

And this film is purposefully messier because it's about someone who is not pro-war, but his art form is something that can literally be weaponized. Yeah. Which is also a thing that, like, Miyazaki taught. I mean, this is the part that, like, destroyed me the most, where he's talking about, like, I mean, I feel stupid for, like, making movies. Right. Like, I make movies because they are a pure and beautiful thing for me, and I'm obsessed with them, but, like, I don't think they accomplish any movies. Right. Like I make movies because they are a pure and beautiful thing for me and I'm obsessed with them

but like I don't think they accomplish any good. Right. I think mostly they're pretty much bad now. I used to think there was a purity to this art form.

It like feels foolish. I want to see if I can pull up the exact same because the way he words it is just like so cutting. But that's the thing that broke me watching Wind Rises

is it's like yes there's like a larger extreme example. We talked about this on the episode. I remember this. Right. Yeah.

And for me, I like, you know, the Miyazaki miniseries, A, in a certain way, these are tough films to watch in the way that we watch them. Right. Where it's like you're going through his entire life in a condensed period of time. Right. You know, mostly watching his movies,

spending this much time thinking about him, it's pretty all-consuming. And at the time we were doing the miniseries, I was also a pretty raw nerve because of the tick cancellation, which I was super fucking depressed about. Unless the end of that specific job and more my feeling of incredible confusion

and fear about like, what the fuck can I possibly do in this industry now? Well, cause you guys are also obsessed with trajectories and I know you and I know that you're, you're having this moment of now reassessing. I'm having one of those moments that we tend to talk about on the podcast. Right.

So I'm trying to figure out what the fuck I'm doing. Where do I point myself? And what scares me is I look around and it's not even about like boohoo job prospect shit it's not me complaining about not getting hired for stuff i look around i'm like i don't know what to do with this landscape right i think in much of the way that what would satisfy what would feel worthwhile or important or all all of that right you know um to a certain degree, I've been very lucky that I have gotten to accomplish a lot of the things that existed as like big artistic dreams of mine. or even being seen by people. Like in terms of the actual,

like the challenge of the work, I've gotten to do a lot of the things I wanted to do, which I've been incredibly spoiled in that sense. And so like that list is diminished and I look around now and it's like, well, those were the things I had as like 20 year goals. And I somehow accomplished a lot of them in like 10 years. And now what do I want to be challenged by? And I look around at the landscape and I somehow accomplished a lot of them in like 10 years and now what do I want to be challenged by and I look around at the landscape and I'm like

I don't know if the things that I would want to do the most are even possible to do today you know I don't know if the landscape exists not to be oblique about it because it's hard to like verbalize some of it but even just in terms of what gets made and how

it gets made how it gets made isize some of it. But even just in terms of what gets made and how it gets made, how it gets made is so much of it. Watching the way that Miyazaki is just like, I'm doing the whole storyboard myself. I don't have a script. No one can read it. People get drips and drabs.

And then when I'm finally done, I hand the storyboard to my producer and friend of 40 years, and he sits down and reads it and goes like, okay. And I do it when I do it it's done when i done that it's done when i done geez that thing that he says when they like uh show the archival video of them founding the uh the ghibli um studios the physical space being able to buy the space and and build the and all of that, when he sort of says like, you know,

if you are here for long-term job security, you are in the wrong place. The only reason for you to be here is because you want to do the work and that's what's satisfying to you. Most companies are just a conduit for money and I'm not interested in that. I think in Japan especially you can tell like they are a little more

they're like a little unusual, like those old old pictures of them they kind of look cool they got like the collared you know not buttoned down it's like you know and like they dress a little because i think in japan still even though it's a changing country like every country there is that expectation of like get a job at a good company and you can work your way up and like that's very much like a sort of system we can still subscribe to. And he seems to be laying out like that's not really how we're going to do that's not what this is. He's doing DeFara.

This is not like an apprenticeship up to the boss. You're not going to get a corner office or whatever. Right. Because the other thing they say is that scene where he sort of walks by where they're doing the merchandise. And we've talked about this in other episodes.

But that they like, he was so resistant to merchandise for a while. He realized it was necessary at a certain point. And only like acquiesced when he felt like the actual craftsmanship of the product was so undeniable that he had to respect that they were putting the same level into the merchandise that he does into his own work. Right. But that they cap how much merchandise they can sell per year. And that in a year like this where you have their two big directors deep into trying to make their next and possibly final films with no end in sight, years over schedule, that they need to sell that stuff to keep the lights on. But that part of the design of the company is it doesn't have to grow every year.

We don't have to like expand with our successes. We need to be able to have a year where we don't make a movie and don't make that much money and it doesn't bankrupt us. That our overhead is so low that the success of one film can like carry us for five years or whatever whatever you know um it is kind of incredible uh how much he doesn't care about anything other than the purity of whatever he's trying to say in the movie he's working on at that moment you know that scene that's incredible where um it's like a bunch of the animators sitting around their desk and i assume one of like the supervising animators is giving them notes,

and then he walks by and goes like, the woman must not. He's giving a specific note about how she's giving a side eye. She's looking to the side and turning her head. He's like, it makes her look disdainful in a way that a woman would not have behaved in this era. It's too modern. And also, it's

just not the type of film we're making, and it's not who this character is. And it's also tied to the whole thing. I didn't, like, I guess you told me this, but I didn't fully process the weirdness of him hiring Anno to... I believe we talk about it actually on the Howl's Movie podcast episode.

Because Ehrlich was all in on that performance. But, I mean, watching that whole thing unfold is fantastic. It's insane. Because Anna worked with him, I believe, it's on Nausicaa, right? Yes. He did the monster. Yes. And so they, you know, they have a long-standing relationship.

And then he does Evangelion and directs Shin Godzilla. So he is, you know, certainly busy and important, right? Yeah. And there's that scene where they're like well what should the guy sound like and miyazaki has this whole concept of like he's conserving all his energy to use artistically and designing like so he would be clipped and he would be businesslike and he would not speak you know he would speak in this very precise way exactly and then someone's like what if we do ano and miyaz someone's like, what if we do Anno? And Miyazaki's like, that's interesting.

You know, like he keeps being like, oh, he can't let it go. It's even funnier than that. I can't do it. I mean, it's so funny to watch him behave that way. They give him the list and he's like, this is what this character needs to be. And he's like talking on such like deep terms. Right. About the elements that are important in this character and the things that would

betray the character. And then the producer says, it almost feels like you want a non-actor. Right, you want a non-actor. None of these people on this list can do that. And then they're like, what do you want?

Almost if it was someone who sounded like Anno. They don't even say, what if you cast Anno? They're like, someone who sounds like him. And he's like, Anno does have a weird voice. And then he just keeps on going. And then just that, where Miyazaki calls him, right? And Anno's like, well, how can I refuse? You are Miyazaki, of course.

The producer calls him and is like, this is going to sound crazy. Yeah, right, right. In the car. As you know, Miyazaki is working on, Miyasana is working on The wind rises and he wants you to be the lead character right yeah and then just it's very sweet watching him record miyazaki in the booth how much he loves him that he loves him but also like what miyazaki loving something looks like yes where he looks just like a little amused basically uh but uh it's clearly overwhelming to him. Other things I want to speed around.

Yeah, exactly. There are some few things. That was definitely something. At the end of the screening when he says, this is the first time I've ever cried at one of my own movies. No, I have to lay this out. Please. They screen the movie in a big screening room.

It looks like the whole staff is there. It's probably a couple hundred people. All of G. He is sitting just in the middle. He's not on an aisle. He gets up. He's already announced at the middle. He's not on an aisle. He gets up. He's already announced at this point that he's going to retire. Yeah.

Although his statement is very clear that he's not actually going to retire. Okay. You know, cause it's right. It's like, I plan to retire in the next 10 years and I'm like, motherfucker, you're like in your 70s.

But anyway, he's sitting, not even on an aisle, gets up with his umbrella, walks out, like sort of shuffles between the people in front of the, you know, stands in front and goes like speech,

speech, speech, speech. And he's like, this is embarrassing to say, but I've never cried at one of my own movies before. Thank you. And then walks back,

no walks back, sits back down like in the chair. And then Suzuki's like, all right, everyone, we can go. And then everyone leaves. Like,

he's not so presumptuous to think that'll end it. He's like, maybe someone else wants to stand up. I don't know. That was just my thought. Anything else anyone wants to share? Is that I was moved to tears. You also see him sort of being moved to tears when they're doing the voiceovers at one point. You can see.

Yeah. Yes. I love Miyazaki. I know. I mean, David, thank you again for suggesting this. I mean, I know Griffin. I know Griffin. But I mean David thank you again for suggesting this I know Griffin I mean we've talked about him your guidance through this I mean

I am 100% a now Miyazaki fan and it was a weird mini series I mean I feel like we did them fast we did them fast I was going through shit which clashed not clashed with but was like a weird – excuse me. Wow, he's coughing.

with these movies, which are so much about doing the work and focusing on the purity of life and accepting the messiness and the hopelessness of it all in spite of the beauty that surrounds you. Yeah, right. He's a weird mix for you for that. It's a weird mix for all of that. And I also like, you know, it's a different culture than we've ever tackled in such depth on this show, sustained for an entire miniseries. And like it's

a very different sort of like all the context stuff that we love. His career functions very differently. It's about one man being sort of steadfast. Those are some of the things I want to talk about. Like that scene, whatever, the clip of Suzuki giving the press conference. Yes. Where he's

sort of like, there's a conference yes where he's sort of like there's a bunch of reporters he's like look i mean you know takahata what can i say the guy's fucking insane he's never gonna finish i don't think he wants to finish and he's like anyway what miyazaki's going for and i think this is really raising a lot of stuff for him personally yeah he's talking and i'm just comparing that to like a kevin feige giving his right you know his slide shows of like the next marvel imagine if kevin feige giving his right you know his slideshows of like the next marvel imagine if kevin feige just came i was like yeah so i mean what's fucking me up about thor 4 is this you know like and he's just like sitting with a bunch of guys and having

a convo it is just so weird i thought that seemed like no i'm how could he be so modest yeah right right but it also just feels like he's like a SoundCloud rapper or something. Right. Going like, I was feeling this last week, and here's my new album, and this is what it's about. You know? Yeah. It's like kind of astounding how away from the machinery he is, but not just like, oh, he's like the creative guy and there are money people around him, but that the people around him sort of follow in his philosophy and do the bare minimum of business-y stuff.

Because even the whole thing with the NTV guy, where they're like, this is our relationship. NTV is the only network where Miyazaki and Ghibli films play. Do you know why? Because this man is like, and then he's like, can I call it a friend? Is it friendship? And the guy's like, yeah, I think it is.

And he's like, he comes over here every single night and sits here and talks to us and we don't talk about business. We talk about anything else in life. Sounds nice. And eventually,

we get to talking about family and then our families become friends. And then Miyazaki goes on a trip to his cabin and his daughter in that trip

in that cabin was the inspiration for Spirited Away. And everyone in the room gasps. That's great. And he's just sort of like, sometimes you gotta invest 10 years in a relationship. Get a seed of creativity. You gotta trust people.

You don't know where the things are gonna come from. You just gotta do the work. Couple other things. There's that scene with Goro Miyazaki, his son. Yes. He's kind of aggro. And he's like, I didn't want to do this. I never want to be an animator. It's a very interesting thing to include.

I feel this like onus to make another film because if I don't, these people might not have work. Right. But you have to understand, when I decide whether or not to make a film, I'm fighting against the fact that this isn't what I want to do and I didn't think I'd end up here. So you got that.

Yes. And then there's this other thing. I just wanted this incredible ending, probably the best movie ending of all time where Miyazaki, they're doing the press conference and he's like, look out the window. Look at these roofs. Look at that guy.

He doesn't know we're watching him. And then he imagines like, well, you could jump across the room really use clips from him and then they do this montage i think emily mentioned it on one episode of them of all the jumping across the roofs and running and things like that and i mean it should reduce you to rubble it's just incredible yeah and then the pure ending my friend feels like a shot at a miyazaki where it's just him very slowly walking out of the studio with his wife uh there's also a midway through which could have been the ending that thing where i think i where it's just him very slowly walking out of the studio with his wife.

There's also a midway through, which could have been the ending, that thing where I think I mentioned where he's like, you know, I know how it will end. Like, it will all be over soon. Okay, yes, thank you. Ghibli is a name I got from an airplane. Right, they said, does the future of the company not worry you? And he goes, I know what the future is. It will end.

Right, it will end. This place will shut down. The name means nothing. The name means nothing. How pretty. He's like staring down. The name means nothing. The name means nothing. How pretty. He's like staring out into the garden. Yeah. I also love how much he talks about like he loves the zero plane so much.

Yes. And he doesn't want to draw it himself because he feels like he can't do it. But he's noting everyone to death because it doesn't look like what it feels like in And everyone else was like, oh, I thought it was that he's being a taskmaster. Right. But in fact, he can't do it. Right. Right.

Even he cannot do it. And this is like an impossible task to try to draw the thing in his brain that he can't explain and that he can't draw himself. Right. And then every time they go back to him, they're like, so you just love zeros that much? He's like, I don't like zeros. I don't like them. It's not that I like them. And it feels like a 12-year-old denying he has a crush on someone.

Like every time he does, it's the one time he starts to feel a little riled up in the entire movie. It's not that I like them. I just, you know, it's what the movie demands. Shut the fuck up. Leave me alone. I don't like zeros. Did we really not do a list? All right, let's do our lists if we haven't done lists.

It's going to be tough. It's going to be tough? Yeah, it's a tough list. Oh, yeah. I mean, my list is ridiculous anyway because I like them all. And if it is in the other episode, then just cut this shit out, I guess.

I don't know. Anyway. Sorry, I can't remember. I could have sworn we did it, but maybe I'm just conflating some other list making. Something we didn't mention on Mike. No frigging computers.

Oh, yeah. Ben and I were talking about that. It is so, it's so shocking to see an office with no computers he doesn't even have like a traditional animator work desk he doesn't have that slanted desk with the light box underneath and all that sort of shit and you just like you watching him do the thing where he like keeps lifting the page back up it's so yeah look we can fetishize this kind of like hand hell like you know this you know uh this old-fashioned stuff but it is it's hard not to fetishize it and look at a certain point

they hand it off they scan it in they use caps to color it and clean up and all that sort of stuff in terms of what he's doing there's like it's a completely analog office it seems like you barely see electronic devices it must be so devices anywhere around we've talked about this before to make an animated film to be drawn all that shit and for so long to not know what it's going to look like you know like at least with a movie

you can look at your dailies you can see what you're getting right it's not going to be the full picture it's one of the many things that scared me off of being an animator when I thought about going down that path. When I started actually doing it, when I made a couple of animated shorts myself and was studying it, I just – that – it's like – Soderbergh always says that filmmaking is like – it feels like doing a Seurat painting where you're spending this much time looking at one singular dot

made by a brush on a canvas and you have to, in your mind, put together what that dot is going to do in conjunction with all the other dots. So do you. Like writing an orchestra. Sure. You don't know what it's going to sound like

until it gets put up and all the instruments and all the players are playing but filmmaking is so bizarre because you don't even have that moment where they're all playing at the same time because you're doing all the pieces completely separate jumbled out of order in a way that doesn't make sense and then you hope that when you edit them all together it amounts

to something greater you know I mean and from every element like the performances there are performances that on a scene by scene basis could look perfect And from every element, like the performances, there are performances that on a scene-by-scene basis could look perfect, that when you cut together don't work, and vice versa. It's a very bizarre thing. All of this is overwhelming.

I'm glad we did Miyazaki. I'm very excited to have watched all these films and to be able to watch them again like revisit them I feel like I've barely sort of grappled with them and him they're very lovely to rewatch

someone who just rewatched them all alright here's my list it's a wild list to be clear everything in this movie is from an 8 to a 10 everything on this list

I mean on this list sorry on this list right like it's either yeah top or very high for me. So ranking it is

sort of very much a matter of personal enjoyment more than objective quality. I want to offer the exact same qualifier that I'm just talking about. Which ones I enjoyed the most. Number one. This is me. This is me. Yeah. This is you. This is me. That's number one.

It's great to show. Alright dog take it. Alright. Sorry. Sp's number one. It's Greatest Showman. All right, dog, take it. All right. Sorry. Spirited Away, number one. Number two, Ponyo. Of course. Number three, Porco. Number four, Windrise.

Number five, Kiki. Number six, Totoro. And all of those are perfect. Yeah. Number seven, Castle in the Sky. And number eight, Nausicaa. Those two are very much twinned for me. Okay.

And then number nine, Cagliostro, which I love. Yeah. And number 10, Mononoke. And number 11, Hau. Mononoke at 10 is kind of wild. Mononoke and Hau are the only ones that I might not just want to watch every single day. Yeah. And I still love them.

Okay, my number one, Spirit Away is just kind of undeniable. Hell yeah. It's just a perfect object. I agree. Number two, my main man, Porco Rosso. Hell yeah. He's a good boy. A movie that Miyazaki refers to in this documentary as foolish.

And I was like, is he subtweeting me? Boy, oh boy. But then he, they're like, He loves it. But they press him on, they're like, what do you mean by foolish?

And he's like, well, it's for children. Right. I didn't have the courage to make a film that wasn't for children. And then you're like, that's his kid's movie?

Yeah, I was like, I'm about to say, like, that ain't, that movie's not really for children, but whatever, whatever. Better be a pig than a fascist.

That kid's path. It's like Baby Shark. Okay, number two, Porco Rosso. Number three, Castle of Canagliostro. Number four. I expected that to be very happy. Yes. I love him.

Been watching a lot of Lupin. I bought a Lupin action figure, which is maybe the best action figure I own. Cool. Not going to go into this, but it's. That seems like a whole. That's like a Patreon episode. is you talking about your action figure. Let me just put it this way. It's very well engineered.

Oh, wow. Very well engineered. I don't know if I love that. I don't know what that means. That would be an opportunity to use the 3D mic and we can record Griffin playing with his toys. Ben's like, look, I bought these damn 3D mics. I got to use this fucking thing. The B&H was closed on a Saturday.

It wasn't used for the fucking Six Flags. So mad about it. Look, I'm not saying that I'm gonna take you up on this, but I like, for the first time, I said something about toys where you were like, I don't understand that, and you're almost edging on asking me to explain myself. But later. Terrible engineer, but can we very quickly merchandise spotlight

the thing I got you? Of course, little Ponyo. We forgot to mention that. We forgot to mention it. Well, because it took you a while to remember to give it to me. Oh, and I have your...

Oh, amazing. That's my merchandise spotlight. But I got David a little plush Ponyo. It's a little stuffed Ponyo. It's so cute. It's about four inches

long. And what happens? She'll wiggle. She wiggles along. It's that little pull string you pull it and it wiggles along on her belly. She rules.

It's a, it's a, yeah, it's a, it's fish panno. Full fish panno. Full fish panno. Okay, so Cagliostro is number three. Number four for me is Castle in the Sky. I like those large suns

and those flying machines. Number five is Princess Mononoke. Sure. Number six is The Wind Rises. Sure. Number seven is Kiki. Okay. Then I would say Nausicaa.

Sure. It's hard to do this. No, I would do Ponyo above Nausicaa. Okay. And then Howl's Moving Castle, did I cover all of them? Oh, I forgot Totoro. Wow, bottom. No, Totoro I put...

It's not bottom because it's definitely above Howl for me. Okay, so put it's not bottom because it's definitely above Howl for me okay so put it at 10 I feel like a dummy but it's the one I still kind of can't crack it's a movie I really admire and appreciate but because I saw it

as a full grown up it's always been something I more admire and appreciate than watch over and over again. Yeah. But it's very good. Quite good. David's packing his bag. He has to go see Last Christmas.

Gave him his heart. Probably. I don't know. Yeah. I keep fucking the lyrics up. Yeah. Paul Feig, right? It's a Paul Feig movie I'm about to see?

It's a Feig picture. Well, I don't mind Paul. You know what his next movie is, right? No. Dark Army. Oh, I do vaguely know this. Which is not part of the Dark Universe, but is about universal monsters. All right.

All right. Weird to just title it Dark. Anyway, that was me as Haki. David is literally running out of the studio. Do you have any final thoughts, David? It was a great miniseries to do. It was really contentious for the fan base at times, but whatever. Yeah.

I really loved watching these movies, and then the demi-series is really good. It's very different. Yeah, I think so. Especially compared to that. We got like half of them in the can. Good apps, good guests. Later, David.